INVESTIGATION OF THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 28, 1978 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS, Washington, D.C. The committee met at 8:45 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 345, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Richardson Preyer, presiding. Present: Representatives Preyer, Stokes, Dodd, Fithian, Ford, Edgar, Devine, McKinney, and Sawyer. Also present: G. Robert Blakey, chief counsel; G. Cornwell, deputy chief counsel; Elizabeth Berning, chief clerk; and I. Charles Mathews, special counsel. Mr. PREYER . The committee will come to order. The Chair recog- nizes Mr. Blakey. Mr. BLAKEY . Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What the committee witnessed here yesterday is more typical of organized crime investigations than we had thought perhaps the testimony would be. Skillful interrogation has, in fact, elicited only meager amounts of information, and we have seen manifested in a witness that fear that is all too often characteristic of people called to testify in matters touching on organized crime. A fear that, frankly must be recognized as justified. Indeed, I would note that in the organized crime and racketeering section in the U.S. Depart- ment of Justice between 1961 and 1965, in which I served, more than 25 informants were lost in organized crime cases, killed by those who would prevent their testimony from being made public. But it is necessary, nevertheless, to continue the exploration and illustration of the committee's work. In that context, it would be appropriate at this time to call Santos Trafficante. Mr. Chairman, I understand Mr. Trafficante has requested that there be no radio, TV, photographs, or recordings made of him at any time during his testimony. Consequently, it would be appropri- ate consistent with the rules of this committee and the House to enter an order to that effect. Mr. PREYER . The witness, having requested that he not be sub- jected to radio, television, or photographic coverage, the committee directs that all lenses be covered and that all microphones used for coverage be turned off at this time. The committee calls Santos Trafficante. Mr. Trafficante, will you stand and be sworn. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you will give this commit- tee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. (345) 346 Mr. TRAFFICANTE. I do. TESTIMONY OF SANTOS TRAFFICANTE Mr. PREYER . Thank you. Mr. GONZALEZ . Mr. Chairman, I am Henry Gonzalez. I don't know if the committee has been advised, we are exercising our rights under rule No. 6 of the House Rules. Mr. PREYER . Yes, Mr. Gonzalez. The Chair will recognize Mr. Stokes for questioning, and I believe the matters you mentioned will be brought out in due course . Chairman STOKES . For the record, will the witness please state his full name. Mr. TRAFFICANTE. Santos Trafficante. Chairman STOKES. Mr. Trafficante, where are you currently living? Mr. TRAFFICANTE. 740 Northeast, 155th Street, North Miami. Chairman STOKES. Will you tell us when and where you were born? Mr. TRAFFICANTE . At this time, I want to exercise my privilege and my constitutional right to take the Fifth amendment. Chairman STOKES. Mr. Chairman, I request that you have the clerk show the witness JFK exhibit No. F-411, an order of Judge Gasch conferring immunity upon the witness and compelling his testimony. Mr. PREYER . Yes; Mr. Trafficante, the committee has determined earlier that it desires to immunize your testimony, and the clerk is directed at this time to show the witness a certified copy of the immunity order of Judge Gasch, and it is ordered inserted into the record at this point, JFK F-411. [The Immunity Order, JFK F-411 follows:] 347 JFK EXHIBIT F-411 FILE© UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA 1073 JAMES F. DAVEY, CI-_- In the Matter of the Application of ) UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ) Misc . No . 78- SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS ) ORDER CONFERRING IMMUNITY UPON AND COMPELLING TESTIMONY FROM SANTO TRAFFICANTE The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations having made written application, pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, for an order conferring immunity upon Santo Trafficante and compelling him to testify and provide other information before the Select Committee on Assassinations, and the court finding that all procedures specified by §6005 have been duly followed, it is hereby, this '2-p d 1978, ORDERED, that Santo Trafficante in accordance with the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, shall not be excused from testifying or pro viding other information before the Select Committee on Assassinations on the grounds that the testimony or other information sought may tend to incriminate him. ORDERED FURTHER, that Santo Trafficante appear when subpoenaed by said Committee and testify and provide such other information that is sought with respect to matters under inquiry by said Committee . 348 AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that no testimony or other information compelled under this order (or any information directly or indirectly derived from such testimony or other information) may be used against Santo Trafficante in any criminal case, except a prosecution for perjury, giving a false statement or otherwise failing to comply with this ORDER. United StatesDistrict Judge Dated : If! - 7 F A TRUE COPY ]ara F. D VEY Clerk $, Gll Mr. PREYER . I believe, Mr. Trafficante, and Mr. Gonzalez, that you have seen a copy of this order at an earlier date . Mr. GONZALEZ . That's correct, Mr. Chairman. Mr. PREYER. In light of the immunity order, the committee di- rects you to answer the question, Mr. Trafficante. Mr. GONZALEZ . Mr. Chairman, prior to answering any of the questions propounded, we would like to have the declaration made by counsel for the committee on behalf of the committee whether or not any of the questions that will be propounded to Mr. Traffi- cante are derived from either legal or illegal monitoring of Mr. Trafficante at any time in the past, and we would exercise that right and make that request under title 18, section 3504. Mr. PREYER . The Chair will state, Mr. Gonzalez, that no question you will be asked in this hearing today is based on any electronic surveillance, as to which you have standing to object. Mr. GONZALEZ . Furthermore, Mr. Chairman, I would like, prior to commencement of questioning, I believe it was either yesterday or the day before I submitted a document from a doctor which I would most respectfully ask that it be incorporated as part of the record and each of the committee members take consideration and do take consideration of the contents therein in the conducting of the hearing at this time. Mr. PREYER. Mr. Gonzalez, each member of the committee has received a copy of this letter and has read it and, without objection, a copy of the letter will be made a part of the record at this point. [The referred to document furnished for the record follows:] 349 November 23, 1977 In re : '1r . Santo Trafficante Watson Clinic ;'179243 The above-mentioned patient has been under my care since 1969 . He has had chronic hypertensive vascular disease . His first evidence of organic heart disease was in August, 1974, when he had the onset in another country of pulmonary edema . The electrocardiogram changed and showed evidence of anterior wall ischemia . It was felt that he had had a myocardial infarction at that time . He has had chronically elevated cholesterol and triglycerides, as well as temporary elevations of uric acid wh".uh have been controlled by medication . He has also `sd a polyp removed from his colon which was benign but required eb 1o-,anal surServ in 1971 . ..c hat a retinal detachment in 1974 and has rather severe and disabling osreoar[hritis of the iumbosacral spine . Currently, he is suffering from angina pectoris on either exposure to tension or to exertion . He was evaluated in the clinic by Dr . Alan Brenner, Cardiologist, who agreed with his management program which consists of Aldomet 500 mg . b.i .d ., Inderal 40 mg . q .i .d ., Col-Benemid - one tablet twice daily, potassium supplements, Hydro- Diuril 50 mg . daily, and Apresoline 10 mg . t .i .d . He recommended the addition of Isordil and he now receives 5 mg . sublingually q .i .d . For his arthritis, he has been given Tolectin, two tablets t .i .d . In essence, `1r. Trafficante is an ill man and has significant cardio- vascular disease, making him at great risk for a recurrence of myo- cardial infarction . His angina is brought on by stressful events, either physical or emotional. It would seem unwise for him to be exposed to prolonged emotional or physical stress . For this reason, it would be better if his current legal difficulties could be handled by deposition rather than having to undergo the more stressful personal appearances . John V. Verner, Jr ., M .D . sr(w30)73 7FI<-'-IP JFK EXHIBIT F-412 35-379 0 - 711 - 23 350 Mr. DEVINE . Reserving the right to object, does the Chair make the reference to the letter from a clinic dated September 1977? Mr. GONZALEZ . No, sir, it is November 23, 1977 . Mr. DEVINE. 1977 . That is the one. I withdraw my reservation, Mr. Chairman. Mr. GONZALEZ . Mr. Chairman, pursuant to the subpena that Mr. Trafficante is here responding to of this committee, pursuant to the order of the Federal district judge here in this area and we at this time are prepared to continue the questioning. Mr. PREYER . Thank you, Mr. Gonzalez. Before we continue with the questioning, the Chair would like to read to the witness a statement of the scope of the hearing which appears as the man- date of this committee in H.