Vol. 764 Thursday No. 33 16 July 2015 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS Questions Surveillance Legislation.........................................................................................................................................683 Police: Ambulance Support..................................................................................................................................686 Building Stability Overseas Strategy...................................................................................................................688 Carbon Emissions .................................................................................................................................................690 Business of the House Motion on Standing Orders .................................................................................................................................693 Privileges and Conduct Motion to Agree ...................................................................................................................................................693 Standing Orders (Public Business) Motion to Amend..................................................................................................................................................694 Hybrid Instruments Membership Motion...............................................................................................................................................695 Human Rights Membership Motion...............................................................................................................................................695 Responsibility to Protect Motion to Take Note...........................................................................................................................................696 NHS: Reform Statement ................................................................................................................................................................726 BBC Charter Review Statement ................................................................................................................................................................741 English Votes for English Laws Question for Short Debate...................................................................................................................................754 Freedom of Religion and Belief Motion to Take Note...........................................................................................................................................766 National Minimum Wage (Amendment) Regulations 2015 Motion to Approve................................................................................................................................................804 Grand Committee Biodiversity Question for Short Debate ............................................................................................................................GC 81 Public Life: Values Question for Short Debate ............................................................................................................................GC 96 Rural Communities Question for Short Debate...........................................................................................................................GC 112 UK: Population Question for Short Debate...........................................................................................................................GC 127 Sub-Saharan Africa: Healthcare Question for Short Debate ..............................................................................................................................GC 138 £4.00 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201516/ldhansrd/index/150716.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £4 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £600 LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £65 (£105 for a two-volume edition); Lords, £60 (£100 for a two-volume edition). Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. All prices are inclusive of postage. The first time a Member speaks to a new piece of parliamentary business, the following abbreviations are used to show their party affiliation: Abbreviation Party/Group CB Cross Bench Con Conservative DUP Democratic Unionist Party GP Green Party Ind Lab Independent Labour Ind LD Independent Liberal Democrat Ind SD Independent Social Democrat Ind UU Independent Ulster Unionist Lab Labour LD Liberal Democrat LD Ind Liberal Democrat Independent Non-afl Non-affiliated PC Plaid Cymru UKIP UK Independence Party UUP Ulster Unionist Party No party affiliation is given for Members serving the House in a formal capacity, the Lords spiritual, Members on leave of absence or Members who are otherwise disqualified from sitting in the House. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2015, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 683 Oaths and Affirmations[16 JULY 2015] Surveillance Legislation 684 because we definitely need to have something in front House of Lords of the House by early February if we are going to Thursday, 16 July 2015. meet the sunset clause. Does the Minister agree that it forms a very sound basis for moving forward with this 11 am legislation? Prayers—read by the Lord Bishop of Portsmouth. Lord Bates: I absolutely agree with the report. I received a copy of it yesterday when it was published, Oaths and Affirmations and it is a very readable document. It comes alongside the Anderson review, which is nearly 400 pages long, 11.05 am and the Intelligence and Security Committee report in the last part of the last Session. Taken together, in the Lord Sacks made the solemn affirmation, and signed an round, they will enable the Joint Committee, which we undertaking to abide by the Code of Conduct. hope will begin pre-legislative scrutiny early this autumn, to make faster progress than would otherwise be the Surveillance Legislation case and therefore meet the important deadline of the Question sunset clause, to which the noble Lord rightly referred. Lord King of Bridgwater (Con): My Lords, my 11.06 am noble friend’s Answer to the noble Baroness’s Question Asked by Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb is exactly right. She is going to have the opportunity for a quite unprecedented amount of consideration of To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the important issue of whether warrants should be David Anderson QC’s report on surveillance legislation, signed by judges or Secretaries of State. I welcome my whether they intend that Ministers should retain noble friend’s answer that this will be discussed further the power to authorise surveillance. against the RUSI report, the Anderson report and the pre-legislative scrutiny so that the public can see just The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Bates) how important these issues are and the importance (Con): My Lords, as I said in the House on 8 July that this House attaches to them. during the debate on the recent reports into investigatory powers, the Government have made no decisions on Lord Bates: Absolutely, and I think we are all the proposals within the reports. We intend to bring grateful to the business managers for having arranged forward legislative proposals in the autumn that will time for that very important debate before the report be subject to pre-legislative scrutiny. from RUSI had actually been received. There were many helpful contributions in that debate, including Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP): I thank the those from the noble Baroness, Lady Manningham-Buller, Minister for his reply. It is important to think that the and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of public understand how and why such decisions are Eaton-under-Heywood, who shared incredible insights made. However, it is an offence to disclose that a from their practical experience of the dilemmas that warrant for authorisation of surveillance has been are faced. On the issue of judicial authorisation of issued, and it is government policy not to talk about warrants, judgment was split: RUSI and the ISC were security matters, so how can the public understand in favour of the status quo whereas David Anderson exactly what the Minister has done and why he has wanted to look at it. That will be work for the pre- done it? Is some sort of transparency a factor in his legislative scrutiny committee whose deliberations will, thinking? of course, be published. Lord Bates: David Anderson’s report, on which we Lord Scriven (LD): My Lords, can the Minister had a very helpful debate last week, talks about trust,