Second Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Chairperson Ms. Erna Braun Constituency of Rossmere Vol. LX No. 1 - 7 p.m., Monday, April 28, 2008 ISSN 1708-6698 MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon. Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. The Pas N.D.P. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P. MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood N.D.P. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St. Boniface N.D.P. STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P. 1 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT Monday, April 28, 2008 TIME – 7 p.m. WRITTEN SUBMISSIONS: LOCATION – Winnipeg, Manitoba Bill 18–The Testing of Bodily Fluids and Disclosure Act CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Erna Braun (Rossmere) Mr. Richard Elliott, Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal VICE-CHAIRPERSON – Ms. Bonnie Network Korzeniowski (St. James) ATTENDANCE – 11 QUORUM – 6 MATTERS UNDER CONSIDERATION: Members of the Committee present: Bill 8–The Phosphorus Reduction Act (Water Protection Act Amended) Hon. Mses. Melnick, Oswald, Hon. Mr. Selinger Bill 9–The Protection for Persons in Care Ms. Braun, Mr. Cullen, Mrs. Driedger, Messrs. Amendment Act Faurschou, Goertzen, Ms. Korzeniowski, Mr. Nevakshonoff, Ms. Selby Bill 11–The Optometry Amendment Act Bill 12–The Securities Transfer Act APPEARING: Bill 18–The Testing of Bodily Fluids and Mr. Kevin Lamoureux, MLA for Inkster Disclosure Act WITNESSES: * * * Bill 8–The Phosphorus Reduction Act (Water Madam Chairperson: Good evening. Will the Protection Act Amended) Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development please come to order. Mr. Darren Praznik, Canadian Cosmetic Toiletry and Fragrance Association For the information of everyone in attendance Mr. James Beddome, Private Citizen this evening, we may have some lights and cameras set up in the room tonight. This is because the Mr. Paul Walsh, Private Citizen Legislative Assembly Media Services will be filming Bill 11–The Optometry Amendment Act part of tonight's proceedings for inclusion in the video Standing Committees of the Legislative Mr. David Cochrane, O.D., Manitoba Assembly of Manitoba. Association of Optometrists This meeting has been called to consider the Bill 18–The Testing of Bodily Fluids and following bills: Bill 8, The Phosphorus Reduction Disclosure Act Act (Water Protection Act Amended); Bill 9, The Mr. Keith Atkinson, Manitoba Association of Protection for Persons in Care Amendment Act; Bill Chiefs of Police 11, The Optometry Amendment Act; Bill 12, The Ms. Jodi Possia, Paramedic Association of Securities Transfer Act; Bill 18, The Testing of Manitoba Bodily Fluids and Disclosure Act. Mr. Alex Forrest, United Fire Fighters of We have a number of presenters registered to Winnipeg speak this evening as follows: Mr. Mike Sutherland, Winnipeg Police For Bill 8, we have: Darren Praznik representing Association the Canadian Cosmetic Toiletry and Fragrance Mr. Ken Mandzuik, Manitoba Association for Association; James Beddome, private citizen; Paul Rights and Liberties Walsh, Dollar Wise Quality Cleaners. 2 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 28, 2008 For Bill 11, we have: David Cochrane, Manitoba Madam Chairperson: Is that agreed? [Agreed] Association of Optometrists. I would like to inform all in attendance of the For Bill 18, The Testing of Bodily Fluids and provisions in our rules regarding the hour of Disclosure Act, we have: Jodi Possia, Paramedic adjournment. Except by unanimous consent, a Association of Manitoba; Alex Forrest, United Fire standing committee meeting to consider a bill in the Fighters of Winnipeg; Mike Sutherland, President of evening must not sit past midnight to hear the Winnipeg Police Association; Keith Atkinson, presentations, unless fewer than 20 presenters are Manitoba Association of Chiefs of Police; Ken registered to speak to all bills being considered when Mandzuik, Manitoba Association for Rights and the committee commences. As of 7 o'clock this Liberties. evening, there were nine persons registered to speak to these bills, therefore, according to our rules, this Before we proceed with presentations, we do committee may sit past midnight to hear have a number of other items and points of presentations. How late does the committee wish to information to consider. First of all, if there is sit tonight? anyone else in the audience who would like to make a presentation this evening, please register with staff Mr. Nevakshonoff: Well, Madam Chair, I suggest at the entrance of the room. we sit until midnight if necessary and if we're still here at that point in time, then maybe we can revisit Also, for the information of all presenters, while this issue. written versions of presentations are not required, if you are going to accompany your presentation with Madam Chairperson: Okay, the will of the written materials, we ask that you provide 20 copies. committee? [Agreed] If you need help with photocopying, please ask our Prior to proceeding with public presentations, I staff. would like to advise members of the public regarding As well, I would like to inform presenters that, the process for speaking in committee. The in accordance with our rules, a time limit of 10 proceedings of our meetings are recorded in order to minutes has been allotted for presentations, with provide a verbatim transcript. Each time someone another five minutes allowed for questions from wishes to speak, whether it be an MLA or a committee members. presenter, I first have to say the person's name. This is a signal for the Hansard recorder to turn the mikes Also, in accordance with our rules, if a presenter on and off. is not in attendance when their name is called, they will be dropped to the bottom of the list. If the Thank you for your patience and we will now presenter is not in attendance when their name is proceed with the public presentations. called a second time, they will be removed from the Bill 8–The Phosphorus Reduction Act presenters' list. (Water Protection Act Amended) A written submission on Bill 18 from Richard Madam Chairperson: Darren Praznik, Canadian Elliott from the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network Cosmetic, Toiletry and Fragrance Association. has been received and distributed to committee members. Does the committee agree to have this Mr. Darren Praznik (Canadian Cosmetic, document appear in the Hansard transcript of this Toiletry and Fragrance Association): Thank you, meeting? [Agreed] and I have copies, Madam Chair. Order of presentations: on the topic of Madam Chairperson: Thank you. Please proceed. determining the order of public presentations, I will Mr. Praznik: Thank you much, Madam Chair. I note that we do have out-of-town presenters in must admit it's somewhat different being on this end attendance marked with an asterisk on the list. With of the table, but certainly a pleasurable one. this consideration in mind, in what order does the committee wish to hear the presentations? Madam Chairperson, Madam Minister, ministers, former colleagues and members of the Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff (Interlake): Madam Legislature, thank you very much for the opportunity Chairperson, given that the outside presenters have to make this presentation to you this evening on been identified on the list, I would suggest that we behalf of the Canadian Cosmetic, Toiletry and would hear from them first for their convenience. Fragrance Association, which I have the honour of April 28, 2008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3 representing. The CCTFA was founded in 1928 and different regulatory regimes in provinces, it makes it is really the voice of the personal care products very, very difficult to serve those markets. If industry in Canada. We represent some 160 provincial governments start regulating with respect companies which represents the bulk of the industry to the content of individual consumer products, start in terms of product and it counts for some regulating with respect to the labelling, and we've $5.4 billion a year in annual sales.