RustySchweickartSuperstars, astronaut of and Astronomy planetary defense expert Page 1 of 24 Dave Eicher: Welcome to the Superstars of Astronomy podcast from Astronomy magazine. I’m Dave Eicher, editor-in-chief of Astronomy. Each month, I will share the thoughts and research of the world’s greatest astronomers, astrophysicists, cosmologists and planetary scientists with you in these hour-long chats. Superstars of Astronomy is brought to you by Celestron. From your first telescope to precision observatory-grade instruments, Celestron has the perfect telescope to suit your experience level and budget. Find out more at www.celestron.com. I’m very excited to have an amazing guest for our sixth show, Rusty Schweickart. Rusty is very well known to all of you as lunar module pilot for Apollo 9 during which he logged 241 hours in space in March 1969. This was the third man flight of the Apollo series and the first man flight of the lunar module. He transmitted the first live pictures from space. Rusty also served as backup commander for the first Skylab mission in 1973. Following the loss of the spacecraft’s thermal shield, he developed hardware and procedures that transformed Skylab from an imminent disaster to a highly successful mission. Rusty has served as an executive and science advisor in a number of capacities. He served as commissioner of energy for the state of California under Governor Jerry Brown as well as the governor’s science advisor. He is found and past president of the Association of Space Explorers. He has been an executive in the area of satellite and telecommunications technology. And Rusty has also taken a leading role in the issue of planetary defense. He has served as chairman of the B612 Foundation, the nonprofit private foundation behind the proposed Sentinel mission, a spacecraft that will map near earth’s asteroids. He’s the most active member of the expert panel for the Asteroid Day movement. So without further ado, Rusty, thank you so much for joining us today. Rusty Schweickart: You’re welcome, Dave. Dave Eicher: It’s a pleasure to have you with us and let’s jump right in, if we could talk about your early days. How did you get interested in becoming both a fighter pilot and also with such a strong interest in science? Rusty Schweickart: Well when I was a little kid, I lived on a farm in New Jersey and we lived, oh, I don’t know, 20 miles or so from naval air station www.Astronomy.com Page 1 of 24 RustySchweickartSuperstars, astronaut of and Astronomy planetary defense expert Page 2 of 24 Lakehurst, and this was during the Second World War. And I would, as a young boy, I would, you know, lay out on the grass or be getting hay in from the fields, and over my head almost every day were navy fighter planes, you know, jousting with one another, dog fighting. And so I took a natural interest in fighter planes and airplanes in general. And I also had an uncle who would ask me just about every day or every day he saw me, which was once a week, you know, what do I want to be when I grew up, and the two things I wanted to be were a fighter pilot and a cowboy. Dave Eicher: [Laughs] That’s a pretty good combination there for a little kid. Rusty Schweickart: Yeah, a little kid, you know, what are you gonna do? So, you know, and I’ve ridden horses, but I was never great at that, but I was the world’s best fighter pilot after I got into the Air Force and learned how to fly. So, you know, when you’re a fighter pilot, the natural thing is to go higher and faster and ultimately that takes you to space. So that’s the short story. Dave Eicher: Fantastic. And so you went to MIT and studied a lot at MIT. And how were those years where you in developing your interests? Rusty Schweickart: Well I started at MIT actually in chemical engineering because I had a Chemcraft chemistry set, you know, and I used to set fire to the — you know, to my little laboratory in the attic every once in a while, so I thought I was gonna be a chemical engineer. But as soon as I got into MIT and started taking chemistry, I realized that that was not for me. And so I shifted over actually toward the end of my first year I shifted into aeronautical engineering, which was obviously a love — with my love of aviation and airplanes. So I graduated MIT in Core 16, aeronautical engineering, and went right into the Air Force. I was in ROTC. In fact, I led the ROTC unit there my senior year and then went right into pilot school, pilot training, in the Air Force when I graduated in 1956. Dave Eicher: Fantastic. And that led you to lean eventually toward NASA and toward the astronaut program as well. Rusty Schweickart: Yeah. It was when I was in the Air Force. I mean I can still remember that I was at Williams Air Force Base playing pool one night when I heard on the radio that the first Sputnik had been launched, and shortly after that, still in the Air Force, I can remember the Original Seven being identified as U.S.’s first astronauts. And of course I watched every mission I could or tracked every mission I could in terms of our unsuccessful Vanguard program. [laughs] Trying to catch up with the Soviet www.Astronomy.com Page 2 of 24 RustySchweickartSuperstars, astronaut of and Astronomy planetary defense expert Page 3 of 24 Union getting into space. And then, of course, finally got it done with Redstone. Yeah, it was interesting times back when I was in my formative years. You know, all of this was happening, so pretty exciting. Dave Eicher: Magic and unique times, and let’s hope that we have some times like that again when we’re so focused on exploration and adventure and outpost to the stars. It’s a shame that the overall psychology of the country and the world is so different now. Rusty Schweickart: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s always good to be good at something, but timing is something often out of your control, and if you happen to be around at the same time or you create the right time [laughs], you know, the special time, that often helps. Dave Eicher: Absolutely, absolutely. And what was your first inkling of — how did it occur to you that you might get involved with the space program? Rusty Schweickart: Well, I mean, again, as I say, you know, being a fighter pilot and you want to go higher and faster, so space was naturally interesting to me. Also, astronomy for that matter. I didn’t mention that. But I’d always been interested in the stars and the cosmos from the time I was a little bitty kid. You know, being born and raised on a farm, you know, weren’t too many bright city lights around, and so I really was privileged to have a nice, clear view of the sky most nights. And so I — those interests, when I was in the Air Force and got out of the Air Force, I was nevertheless interested in the dawning, not just Space Age, but also human space flight at the same time. And so it was a pretty natural evolution interest of mine. And I tracked — you know, when I was doing graduate work at MIT, Alan Shepard flew and, you know, that was right after Yuri Gagarin and that was sort of the big race. And of course I felt very much a part of it even though at the time I wasn’t directly involved, but I certainly was emotionally and mentally involved. And then as I was working toward the end of my graduate school, the question was, how could I become qualified to become an astronaut? I mean it was not even a question whether I wanted to be; it was really how could I qualify. And up until that time, the first two groups of astronauts, you had to be a test pilot. And so as I was finishing my graduate school at MIT, I was thinking how in the world am I gonna get to become a qualified test pilot, because I www.Astronomy.com Page 3 of 24 RustySchweickartSuperstars, astronaut of and Astronomy planetary defense expert Page 4 of 24 was a civilian. I’d already been in the military — in the Air Force and out of it twice as a fighter pilot. Because I was recalled when I was in the — flying the International Guard in Massachusetts as I was finishing up my graduate work at MIT after my first four years in the Air Force. And then our guard unit got activated when Khrushchev put up the Berlin Wall, and so I went in the second time on active duty. So I’d already been in the Air Force and out of it twice, but I wasn’t a test pilot. But then happily, on the third selection of astronauts, NASA was a little more interested in education, and so they had a secondary possibility where instead of being a test pilot you could have 1,000 hours of high-performance jet experience and an advanced degree in science or engineering. And so suddenly I qualified on the alternative route.