Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley Oral History Center University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California David Lamelas David Lamelas: A Pioneer in Conceptual Art Interviews conducted by Todd Holmes Glenn Phillips in 2017 Editorial & Research Assistance by Kristina Newhouse Interviews sponsored by the J. Paul Getty Trust Copyright © 2017 by J. Paul Getty Trust Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley ii Since 1954 the Oral History Center of the Bancroft Library, formerly the Regional Oral History Office, has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* Copyright in the manuscript and recording is owned by the J. Paul Getty Trust, which has made the materials available under Creative Commons licenses as follows: Manuscript is licensed under CC-BY (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/) and recording is licensed under CC-BY-NC (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/4.0/) It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: David Lamelas, “David Lamelas: A Pioneer of Cenceptual Art” conducted by Todd Holmes and Glenn Phillips in 2017, Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, under the auspices of the J. Paul Getty Trust, 2017. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iii David Lamelas, 1996 Photo by Caspari de Geus Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley iv In 2017, The Getty Center initiated the exhibition Pacific Standard Time: LA/ LA, an ambitious and far-reaching series of exhibitions across Southern California that explored Latin American and Latino art in dialogue with Los Angeles. In connection with this exhibition, The Getty Center sponsored life history interviews with selected Chicana/o and Latina/o artists, many of whom were featured in the LA/ LA programs. These interviews, conducted by the Oral History Center at the University of California, Berkeley, aimed to document the lives and experiences of these artists amid the dynamic and changing art world of the West. David Lamelas was one of the selected artists. David Lamelas is an Argentine artist recognized internationally as one of the pioneers of conceptual art. Born in Buenos Aires, he became involved in Argentina’s avant-garde scene during the 1960, and was a member of the famed Instituto di Tella. A graduate of the Academia Nacional de Bellas Artes and Saint Martin’s School of Art in London, Lamelas has traveled the art worlds of Latin America, Europe, and the United States for over fifty years, winning acclaim for his innovative and cutting-edge work. From sculptures and installations to photography and films, his art has creatively explored the themes of time and space, as well as interrelated topics such media, communication, and popular culture. He is the two-time recipient of the Diploma al Mérito from the Konex Foundation for conceptual art (1992) and video art (2012.) He also the recipient of a Guggenheim Fellowship in Fine Arts (1993) and Germany’s DAAD Stipendium (1998). A true “nomadic artist,” Lamelas lives and works between Los Angeles, Buenos Aires, and Europe. Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley v Table of Contents—David Lamelas Interview 1: September 20, 2017 Hour 1 1 Featuring Glenn Phillips from Getty Research Center — Born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, 1946 — Parents were refugees of Spanish civil war — On Argentine political climate — Father’s work history as baker and entrepreneur - Earliest memories of art — On death of twin brother — Studying and exploring art as a teenager — Being accepted to a fine arts school Hour 2 18 On contemporary art from Argentina — Early art showings — Pro-European artistic concentration in schools — Super Elastico, 1965 — On the importance of Art Informer — On winning prizes overseas and in Argentina — Collaborating on La Menesunda — Peron environment of the 1960s — Situation of Time — Relationship to technology — Influential international art styles of interest — Process of information as concept — Early interest in the U.S. and Europe Hour 3 39 The Venice Biennale and its reception — Presenting work and being chosen for the British Council scholarship Interview 2: September 20, 2017 Hour 1 47 On time spent in Venice — Development of self and of art work — On making connections and networking — Wide White Space — Prospect 68 — On being part of artistic hub — Time at Saint Martin’s — Transitioning to film — Impressions of Attitutes Become Form show — Process of publishing — Describing Publication — Exploring the concept of time — On “first film in London” — Time as Acitvity — On films made in London — Influence of Borges Hour 2 65 “Interview” with Marguerite Duras — On experimental writing — Film elements Interview 3: September 21, 2017 Hour 1 83 Moving to Hollywood and Los Angeles, 1974 — Selecting casts — Drafting and conceptualization — On shooting in Los Angeles — Evolution of The Desert People — Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vi On critiques — Working with video — “Tension produces between reality and fiction” — Visiting Argentina in 1978 — Media coverup in Argentina — Effect of dictatorship on art — Hour 2 101 Details of The Dictator — Influence of Watergare — On Reading Letters from Friends — Experiences with the CAYC — Creating own business in 1978 — Making and selling drawings — Willoughby Sharp — Reinvention of the self — Identifying as a Los Angeles video artist — On global travel — Creating videos with Hildegarde Duane — Newsmaker series — On television as medium and it’s significance — On parody — Possibility of public entertainment Interview 4: September 21, 2017 Hour 1 125 On returning to Argentina — Importance of family — Reconnection with Argentine art scene — More on Time as Activity series — “Phenomena of illusion” — Performance art — The Invention of Dr. Morel — On inspirational art — Prolific history — Thoughts on personal art evolution — Technological influence on art — On being a “nomadic artist” — Conceptual art as universal language — Art as representative — Thoughts on current art scene — On Pacific Standard Time — Diversification of Los Angeles art scene — Final thoughts Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley vii Table of Contents—Artworks by Joey Terrill El Super Elástico 71 Situación de Cuatro Placas de Aluminio (Four Changeable Plaques) 72 Situatión de Tiempo 73 Sketch of Limit of a Projection 74 Limit of a Projection 75 Signaling of Three Objects 76 Film Script (Manipulation of Meaning) 77 Time as Activity Dusseldorf 78 To Pour Milk into a Glass 79 The Desert People 80 NYT Mock Up, “The Dictator Returns” 81 Time as Activity London 82 Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley 1 Interview 1: September 20, 2017 01-00:00:04 Holmes: Okay. This is Todd Holmes with the Oral History Center at UC Berkeley, and I have the pleasure of sitting down today—which is September 20, 2017— with David Lamelas. We are here at the California State University Long Beach University Art Museum, and we are also joined by Glenn Phillips from the Getty Center. Is it “Getty Center” or “Getty Museum?” 01-00:00:27 Phillips: “Getty Research Institute” is my part of it. 01-00:00:31 Holmes: Oh, that’s right. Okay, the Getty Research Institute. 01-00:00:32 Phillips: And the “Getty Center” is— 01-00:00:34 Holmes: It’s the all-encompassing— 01-00:00:34 Phillips: —the entire organization. Yeah. 01-00:00:36 Holmes: Yeah, yeah. Okay. And Glenn will be joining us here in our four sessions on the oral history with David Lamelas, which is part of the Getty’s initiative of the Pacific Standard Time: LA/LA exhibition. David, thanks for sitting down with us. 01-00:00:52 Lamelas: Well, thank you. 01-00:00:53 Holmes: So in these four sessions, we are going to talk about your life, and talk about your work, and just kind of go from the beginning to the current. And maybe a good place to start off is to talk a little bit about your family and background. You were born in 1946 in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and your parents were refugees of the Spanish Civil War. Is that correct? 01-00:01:23 Lamelas: Well, first of all, I was born as a twin, with my brother, Victor. There were both of us, Victor and David. And he passed away at a very early age—at five and a half—of meningitis. And then I just became on my own after that. And my parents, they immigrated to Argentina during the Spanish Civil War, and they actually didn’t know each other in Spain. They met in Argentina. And they had me, and Victor, and a sister, Adelaide, and a brother called Jose. 01-00:02:15 Phillips: Did you have Spanish citizenship as well as Argentinian? Oral History Center, The Bancroft Library, University of California Berkeley 2 01-00:02:18 Lamelas: Oh, actually, I do have Spanish citizenship, yes.