The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR MARK PALMER Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: October 30, 1997 Copyri ht 2000 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born in ichigan; raised in U.S. and abroad (navy family) (ale University; )iev University Civil rights activist Entered Foreign Service , 19.4 0e1 Delhi2 India , Rotation Officer 19.4,19.. Ambassador Chester Bo1les )ashmir other Teresa Relations )rishna enon State Department , European Bureau , NATO Affairs 19..,19.8 French 1ithdra1al Soviets 6armisch2 6ermany , U.S. Army Training Program 19.8,19.9 Soviet studies Russian language osco12 Soviet Union , Consular Officer 19.9,1971 Soviet Union Drugs Social environment Dissidents Operations in a dictatorship Harassment Public attitudes Foreign information sources Travel Economy 1 State Department , Policy Planning Staff 1971,1975 )issinger 6lobali:ation Secretary of State Rogers 0ixon Soviet Union Shah of Iran Oil crisis Speech 1riting for )issinger Dobrynin,)issinger relations )issinger<s India visit Winston Lord Larry Eagleburger President Ford Belgrade2 (ugoslavia , Political Counselor 1975,1978 Tito U.S. policy Ambassador Silberman Political environment 0ationalities Ambassador Larry Eagleburger Economy CODELs State Department , Bureau of Political, ilitary Affairs 1978,1981 SALT II Secretary of State Vance Br:e:inski AD Paul Warnke issiles T0F negotiations Biological 1eapons Afghanistan ACDA President Carter State Department , European Bureau , Deputy Assistant Secretary 1982,198. Personalities Human rights President Reagan Zero option Alexander Haig Speech 1riting Soviet relations 2 0ationalities 1orking group Secretary of State Shult: Afghanistan days U.S. press bias Larry Eagleburger Soviet leadership )remlinology Soviet economy William Casey CIA Richard Burt Exchange programs Reagan,6orbachev 6eneva meeting Richard Perle Poland Eastern European countries Democracy emphasis Ambassador David Funderburk Ceausescu Back atlock Senator Helms Hungary , Ambassador 198.,1990 Dissidents Business school Environmental center Bush policy Political change Secretary of State Baker FIDESZ Border issues 6yula Horn Bush visit Reflection D Retirement INTERVIEW %: Today is the 30th of October 1997. This is an interview with Mar) Palmer. It is bein done on behalf of the Association for Diplomatic Studies and Trainin . I,m Charles Stuart Kennedy. To start with, could you tell me when and where you were born and somethin about your family- A PAL ERE I 1as born in Ann Arbor2 ichigan in 1941 just as the Second World War had started to break out. y father2 a career naval officer2 had started the NROTC program at the University of ichigan. Ho1ever2 he 1as immediately summoned2 not long after my birth2 to the Pacific to take command of a sub and go to 1ar. We moved from ichigan right a1ay back to Ne1 London to the naval base. That<s 1here 1e spent the 1ar. %: .our father was a submarine commander- PAL ERE Right. He 1as career Navy. He 1ent to the Naval Academy. I 1anted to2 but unfortunately I<m color blind. So they 1ouldn<t let me in. %: My brother was Class of /00 at the 1aval Academy, and I had hoped to get in but I,m short si hted. And your mother was a housewife- PAL ERE Right2 right. %: 2hat was your father,s family,s bac) round- PAL ERE Seagoing. They 1ere from aine and did the China trade as did my mother<s family2 actually. y mother<s family 1ere from Vermont. We 1ere the first 1hite2 non, Indian settlers in the state of Vermont2 I think. y father<s family helped to settle ount Desert Island 1here Bar Harbor is. So 1e<re old 0e1 Englanders. %: Oh, I see. 2here was your mother,s family from in 3ermont- PAL ERE Westminster2 1hich is on the Southeast corner near Brattleboro2 that area. %: Did you o to school in 1ew 4ondon or you were pretty youn then- PAL ERE I 1ent to school every1here because of my father. I 1ent to school in Boston; 0e1ton2 assachusetts; in Alexandria2 Virginia; in London2 England and in Seattle2 all follo1ing him around; and I ended up at (ale. %: .our father was mainly a submarine officer- PAL ERE He 1as in submarines and communications2 those t1o things. %: 2here did you o to hi h school- PAL ERE I 1ent to school first in Seattle for t1o years. Then2 I spent t1o years at Vermont Academy in Vermont2 1hich my family had started in the 1870s. %: 2hile you were in hi h school, what )ind of readin did you do- 2hat were your interests- 4 PAL ERE Well2 they 1ere very diverse2 as I guess you are generally in high school; but I 1as more and more interested in Russian literature. One of my uncle<s family<s forefather<s middle name 1as C:ar. We inherited his library2 and it 1as full of books about Russia. Dostoevsky 1as my favorite 1riter 1hen I 1as in high school. I 1ent on in college to major in Russian area studies2 Russian literature and history2 and all of that sort of thing. %: .ou were at .ale for four years- PAL ERE Right. %: So you started .ale when- PAL ERE In 1959. %: So you were at .ale from /59 to /63. PAL ERE Right. %: 2hat was the state of Russian studies in those days- PAL ERE I think it 1as really very healthy. (ale 1as one of the best in the country. We had some really good professors such as Fred Barghoon and many others. We had an exchange program 1ith the University of )iev2 so I 1as able to go to Russia as a student several times. It 1as a lively and very much an interdisciplinary approach. We studied everything from Russian and Soviet economics to central planning to history and literature. It 1as a very interesting2 comprehensive approach to looking at another society over time2 through its history2 and through its present politics. Through political science 1e studied communist theory2 political philosophy2 all kinds of dimensions. %: .ou,re ri ht on the cusp of what became )nown as 8The /60s.9 2as this hittin or affectin you all at that point or had the /60s movement, which was :uite stron at .ale, otten oin at that point- PAL ERE (es2 I 1as very involved in all of that. I 1as a Freedom Rider. I 1as in S0CC and CORE and I organi:ed demonstrations in Ne1 Haven2 Baltimore2 Atlanta2 and Tuskegee2 Alabama and all up and do1n the East Coast. %: 2hen you say Freedom Riders, you,re tal)in about the effort of particularly students and others to dese re ate the South. PAL ERE Right. And the North2 too2 because Ne1 Haven 1as racist. We spent a lot of time 1ith the Southern Connecticut Telephone Company trying to integrate the job situation there. We did a lot of marches to open up housing for Blacks in Ne1 Haven. I 5 helped start a project at the Whaley Avenue Bail called F(ale In Bail2G 1hich 1as an effort to try to help Black prisoners 1ith education in the jail. %: This was also the time that Kennedy became president. Did that have an effect, do you thin)- PAL ERE For me personally2 no. I 1as very disappointed 1ith the )ennedys. (ou kno12 they 1ere supposedly liberal but in terms of their 1illingness to sacrifice for civil rights2 I felt that they 1eren<t there. I am a sort of radical libertarian in my o1n value system. I 1as simultaneously a member the Party of the Right at (ale2 1hich 1as Bill Buckley<s party; and I 1as in S0CC and CORE2 1hich 1as considered far on the left. aybe students are al1ays this 1ay2 but I 1as idealistic. I didn<t think that the )ennedys 1ere sufficiently idealistic. %: In a way it sounds li)e the liberal, not the libertarian, part of you was turned internally in the United States, but you were studyin the Soviet Union. Did you et cau ht up in Marxism, central plannin - How was it presented and how did it fit with your ideas- PAL ERE Well2 I think I 1as consistent. For example2 I had A50 buttons that said FFreedom No12G from my CORE organi:ation. I actually took these to the Soviet Union and distributed them all in the Soviet Union. I got in trouble 1ith the )6B as a result of that. I didn<t like communism any better than I liked certain aspects of the United States. I<ve been2 from the beginning2 anti,big government and all of its aspects. %: How did you find that your approach fit with the predominant feelin at .ale- PAL ERE 6enerically2 my sense of students is that a small percentage of any student body are interested in causes. y sense of the student body at that time at (ale 1as that roughly five percent 1ere interested. The Vietnam War cause hadn<t really taken off 1hile I 1as there2 but the civil rights cause 1as definitely there. (et2 1e never could turn out a very high percentage of the student body2 and virtually no Blacks 1ould ever join us in demonstrations. %: 2hat about the faculty- PAL ERE Not tremendously strong. Even William Sloan Coffin2 1ho 1as sort of famous2 did some things; but not as much as some of us thought he should. %: So you went to Kiev University. 2hen did you o there- PAL ERE In 19.2 and 19.A. I spent about three months in )iev. I also spent time in other cities2 but that 1as 1here the exchange relationship 1as. %: 2hat was your impression- . PAL ERE I liked the people immensely. I had a girl friend. I thought that there 1as really no difference bet1een their aspirations for their lives and their families and 1hat they 1anted individually for themselves.