Tuesday Volume 639 24 April 2018 No. 126 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 24 April 2018 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2018 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 713 24 APRIL 2018 714 Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab): Thousands of House of Commons key court staff were axed, but the Government are now spending tens of millions of pounds more on contracting agency staff. More than 100 courts were sold off, each Tuesday 24 April 2018 raising not much more than the average house price. Now the Secretary of State has appointed someone The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock with a slash-and-burn record as the new chair of the HMCTS board, telling the press that Tim Parker’s PRAYERS “expertise will be vital as we deliver our reform and modernisation of the courts”. [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] To allay concerns that Mr Parker has been appointed for his toughness on cuts, can the Minister outline the specific expertise that Mr Parker has in working in our Oral Answers to Questions court system? Lucy Frazer: The hon. Gentleman makes a number of points that I would like to refute, but I will mainly JUSTICE concentrate on two. It is important that where successful people in business put themselves forward for public The Secretary of State was asked— service, we should welcome them and not put off Court Closures experienced people from taking up important posts. Mr Parker has been successful in the businesses that he 1. Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab): What assessment operated and has operated them appropriately, and we his Department has made of the effect of court closures welcome him to his post. The hon. Gentleman also on access to justice. [904894] talks about cuts to our system. I would like to make it clear that the Ministry of Justice is proposing an extensive The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice reform programme, which will put £1 billion into our (Lucy Frazer): We are looking at ways to improve our courts service. justice system and to modernise the delivery of justice in many ways, including with technology.In circumstances Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Benefit applicants where 41% of tribunals were used at half their capacity in Kettering tell me that they are now having to wait a in 2016-17, it is right that we consider whether spending completely unacceptable 45 weeks for tribunal appeal money on the physical estate is the best use of money. hearings due to a lack of a suitable location. Will the Minister look into that as a matter of urgency and get Mohammad Yasin: The Government like to say that that problem fixed? they have reallocated court services rather than closed them, but Bedford has lost its magistrates court and Lucy Frazer: It is very important that when cases are employment tribunal court, so the public and lay members started, they are heard expediently, so that people are must travel more than 30 miles to access justice. Can the not prejudiced and do not have to wait for justice. I am Minister reassure me that family court services, which happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about those are heard in the highly utilised Shire Hall, will remain issues. in Bedford indefinitely? Community Sentences Lucy Frazer: The hon. Gentleman is right in relation to the changes taking place in Bedford to a certain 2. Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP): extent, but I emphasise that the closure of the tribunal What recent assessment he has made of the effectiveness court is nothing to do with any changes being made by of community sentences on reducing reoffending rates. the Ministry of Justice or Her Majesty’s Courts and [904895] Tribunals Service. The tribunal service is closing because the landlord did not extend the lease, and it was a The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory decision of listing, which is a judicial capacity, to move Stewart): This is something the Department studied in the tribunal court’s hearings elsewhere. Civil cases will detail in 2015, and we have conclusive evidence that be heard in Bedford magistrates court, and until another giving somebody a community sentence rather than location is found, it will not close. a short custodial sentence reduces reoffending over a Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): one-year period. Northallerton magistrates court in my constituency is scheduled for closure. Will the Minister consider using Carol Monaghan: We have evidence of that in Scotland that court as a pilot for some of the future technology as well. The Scottish Government’s move towards solutions, to ensure that those are workable in practice, community payback orders has helped Scotland to before the closure is implemented? achieve its current 18-year low in reoffending. Is the Minister looking to the Scottish Government’s example Lucy Frazer: My hon. Friend makes a valid point, as and considering how they have managed to achieve has his neighbour, my hon. Friend the Member for these figures? Richmond (Yorks) (Rishi Sunak). I have met them both and the police and crime commissioner for the area. It is Rory Stewart: Absolutely. We have a lot to learn from important to consider the appropriateness of pilots for Scotland, specifically on community sentences, and indeed mobile technology, and we will do so. we will be looking at what more we can do to emphasise 715 Oral Answers 24 APRIL 2018 Oral Answers 716 that a custodial sentence in the short term should be a Alan Mak: I thank my right hon. Friend for his final resort. In reoffending terms, it is often much better answer. Will he update the House on the progress being for somebody to be given a community sentence. made towards the new key worker model and the impact it is having on prison officer recruitment? Derek Thomas (St Ives) (Con): In Cornwall, I work closely with Konnect Cornwall, headed up by Ian Curnow, Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise which does a lot of work on behalf of the Government that point. The key worker model is crucial. It will allow and the Department for Work and Pensions to support prison officers to spend more time, both on a one-to-one ex-offenders and people who are on the way into trouble. basis and with small groups of prisoners, improving What more resources can be made available so that no staff-prisoner relationships. That can help us reduce one is left behind? both violence and reoffending. Some prisons, such as HMP Liverpool, are already running that scheme, and I Rory Stewart: A lot of this is about identifying those look forward to more prisons fully implementing that key local providers. The real challenge that we need to over the months ahead. overcome, which is true not just for justice but for local councils, is that of making sure that when we work with Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/ the third sector we work, not with big national providers, Co-op): Many of Dartmoor prison’s prison officers live but with small, grassroots local charities. in Plymouth and have told me of their concern that prison officer cuts, inexperienced new staff and increasing Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I draw retirement ages are causing stress and concern. Can the the House’s attention to the fact that I am a life member Minister reassure me that there is a proper plan to of the Magistrates Association. In the all-party address staffing and morale in our Prison Service? parliamentary group on women in the penal system, we recently heard from the Magistrates Association that Mr Gauke: There is already a proper plan to address magistrates are not familiar with the content of community that point about staffing. That is why the numbers are penalties. That makes them reluctant to choose such going up, and that is the point I am setting out. The penalties. The issue, in part, seems to be a lack of numbers are at a five-year high. We are ahead of what funding for training. Will the Minister comment? we promised in October 2016. I am pleased that we are doing that and we will continue to recruit new prison Rory Stewart: This is a long-standing issue—it was officers—net new prison officers—into the Prison Service. true even in 2008-09—that consistently, the judiciary and magistrates have expressed concerns about community Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): What additional sentences. We need to do much more to build confidence, training will these new officers be given to deal with the but the fact that this has been going on for nearly scourge of the availability of drugs in our prisons 10 years shows that it is a very challenging thing to do. throughout the United Kingdom? Training will be an important part of that. Mr Gauke: The hon. Gentleman makes an important Prison Officer Recruitment point. We are refreshing the way that training works for prison officers. It is very important that we deal with the 3. Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con): What issue of drugs, which has been a real game-changer in progress his Department is making on recruiting 2,500 new its effect on prisons. As we change and refresh our prison officers. [904896] training process, we need to ensure that new prison officers have the skills they need to deal with drugs.