ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – Thursday 20 June 2013 The Estimates Committee convened at 8.30 am. Madam CHAIR: Good morning, everyone. Before we start today I want to say a couple of things. First, the Public Accounts Committee, which is now the Estimates Committee, received its terms of reference from the parliament and not directly from the government. That process is bipartisan. The terms of reference are broad to allow the committee to determine how it will conduct its business in scheduling ministers and the presentation of evidence. It is up to the committee to run the agenda and determine how it will finalise its business within the global delivery of estimates, which is for five-and-a-half days. The construct of the committee’s processes is a matter solely for the committee and the government is compelled to adhere to this. The committee has, by its actions, been unable to effectively manage its time; we are on Day 3 and have not even been through two ministers and Madam Speaker. There are many reasons for this, namely there are long-winded statements that do not end in questions or are not questions related to the budget. There are constant interjections while ministers are trying to provide answers. There are long periods of sustained questioning about matters irrelevant to the 2013-14 budget. The committee has insisted on the reading of questions and answers that have been notified to ministers in advance and, generally speaking, most questions are vague and general in nature, which has resulted in a waste of time. Early this morning, the member for Nelson elected to leave and, following the finalisation of the Police portfolio, some opposition members left and the member for Barkly continued with the remaining portfolios of the Chief Minister. The member for Barkly then elected to leave. In those circumstances, the Chief Minister felt it was in the best interests of transparency to Territorians that we stop estimates, despite having a quorum, and return this morning. We return this morning on strict conditions that the Chief Minister is to be out of here by 10.30 am, which was resolved by the Estimates Committee last night. Following the Chief Minister’s finalisation of budget questions at 10.30 am we will have an Estimates Committee meeting in the Ormiston Room. Mr WOOD: You have made a statement; I would like to comment please. Madam CHAIR: Member for Nelson, if you speak now you are chewing up your precious time with the Chief Minister. Mr WOOD: You just chewed up some of our precious time by making a statement. Madam CHAIR: I beg your pardon? Mr WOOD: It was not accurate. Madam CHAIR: Member for Nelson, I suggest you withdraw that comment. Mr WOOD: Why? I have an opinion. I am not going to withdraw my opinion. The issue I am taking … Madam CHAIR: Member for Nelson, you do not have the call. DEPARTMENT OF CORPORATE AND INFORMATION SERVICES Madam CHAIR: Chief Minister, I invite you to introduce the officials accompanying you and to make an opening statement regarding the Department of Corporate and Information Services if you wish. OUTPUT GROUP 12.0 – Shared Services Output 12.1 – Finance Services Mr GILES: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. You were succinct in your summation of the events last night. Mr WOOD: That is wrong. 1 ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – Thursday 20 June 2013 Mr GILES: I believed it was important we continue the process today, despite the fact estimates was continuing last night and we had a quorum. It is of the utmost importance there is openness, transparency and accountability. Mr WOOD: While you are wide awake. Madam CHAIR: Member for Nelson, do not interrupt the Chief Minister while he is speaking. Mr GILES: I recommended we postpone it and come back this morning so the opposition has the chance to ask questions. I thank all the public servants who stayed last night in anticipation of adhering to the guidelines set by this committee; that is, to fulfil questions and answers in estimates into finality and through all portfolios. Thank you to those people who stayed around, went home, and have come back again this morning. I again welcome Kathleen Robinson, CEO of the Department of Corporate and Information Services. Last night we went through the written questions and the whole output groups and stopped before we reached output-specific areas. I understand there is 45 minutes, which may be reduced. At this point I am happy to take questions at your call, Madam Chair, from any member at any time in any output area to make it easier in case there is a specific point you want to get to. I am happy to take questions now. Mr WOOD: I have one output non-specific question. Mr GILES: I am happy to take questions about the department. Mr WOOD: Can I have an indication of the government’s policy on the future of Bushfires NT after statements were made some months ago that it may become part of the Northern Territory Fire Service? Mr GILES: Member for Nelson, Bushfires NT does not come under the Department of Corporate and Information Services. Mr WOOD: I know. I thought you said you would take global questions. Mr GILES: On DCIS, sorry. Mr WOOD: The way you said it – my apologies. Mr GILES: Then, after the 40 minute period remaining on the clock, we will move into Transport for 45 minutes, and then 15 minutes for the port and 15 minutes for Asian Relations and Trade. We will do DCIS now, as we have the CEO of DCIS here. Mr WOOD: That is all right. I thought you were saying … Mr GILES: Questions on DCIS. Mr VATSKALIS: Madam Chair, I agree with the member for Nelson. It might be okay for you, but some of that statement was questionable. The fact it is bipartisan - when you have 16 members, eight, and one Independent, I do not know how that can be called bipartisan. Let us not forget the way we structured the estimates - it was done by John Elferink. Not all ideas coming from John Elferink are the work of a brilliant mind! Madam CHAIR: Member for Casuarina, that is incorrect. You, as well as anybody, in all your years in this parliament, know how the PAC process operates - the estimates process. Please ask your question of the Chief Minister. Mr VATSKALIS: Yes, Madam Chair. Yes, I have been here 12 years more than you and know how it works because I have been here as a … Madam CHAIR: You are bordering very close, member for Casuarina, on reflections on the Chair. If you would come to your question it would be greatly appreciated. Mr VATSKALIS: Madam Chair, I will go to the question. Again, I express my thanks to the Chief Minister for making himself available. In estimates all ministers should be available and no minister has previously said; ‘I have to be out at a certain time’. However … 2 ESTIMATES COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS – Thursday 20 June 2013 Mr GILES: Member for Casuarina, I was here last night willing to work through the night, as are the rules of estimates. Labor and the Independent, accepting the point, walked out. I called an end to it in support of the Chair. I was prepared to take questions on all output areas last night. They are the rules. You wanted to go to exhaustion. You had the opportunity; I was here from 10 am yesterday until 2 am this morning. I would have continued to go in the interests of Territorians having questions answered. I elected to come back and provide that opportunity to you. Ask questions on the DCIS portfolio and I am happy to answer. Mr VATSKALIS: Yes, I saw you yesterday. I was also here the day before until 1 am, and working like that is no good for either of us, or Territorians. However, I have many questions and will go straight to the point. Chief Minister, you made many promises during the election period. Are you planning to sell NT Fleet? Mr GILES: No. Mr VATSKALIS: Why not? That was one of your key commitments. You told us you were going to raise money. Can you explain why you will not sell NT Fleet? Mr GILES: We conducted a review of NT Fleet and determined optimal savings were to be made in how we manage NT Fleet, including extending the life cycle of a vehicle from two years and 40 000 km to three years and 60 000 km, and making some changes in relation to four-wheel drive vehicles. That provided a better life cycle valuation model on utilisation of that car. We also changed some structures around the green fleet initiatives. We identified the green fleet was costing much more to run cars, and it had less value on the vehicles when we tried to sell them. One of the issues we found when conducting the review was some of the green initiatives on the purchase of vehicles identified cars purchased for agencies, such as NRETAS at the time, were not being utilised. Two electric cars which cost roughly $60 000 to purchase - one had done about 9300 km and one had done about 10 000 km over a two year period - rough numbers. NRETAS was refusing to use the cars even though it was the department of Environment - would not use the green car initiatives. A range of different green products were causing concern and it was better for us to change the way the purchase of vehicles was conducted so we could get better efficiencies out of the utilisation of those cars and, by changing the life cycle, reduce the lease payments for agencies, reducing the cost of agencies and make savings for NT Fleet.