SecondSession - Thirty-FifthLegislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba STANDING COMMITTEE on INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS 40 Elizabeth II Chairman Mr. Marcel Laurendeau Constituencyof St. Norbert VOL. XL No.3· 8 p.m., WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 1991 MG-8048 ISSN 0713-9608 Printed by the Office of the 0,_,., Printer, Province of Manitoba MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature LIB - Liberal ; NO - New Democrat; PC - Progressive Conservative NAME CONSTITUENCY PARTY ALCOCK, Reg Osborne LIB ASHTON, Steve Thompson NO BARRETT,Becky Wellington NO CARR, James Crescentwood LIB CARSTAIRS, Sharon River Heights LIB CERILLI, Marianne Radisson NO CHEEMA, Guizar The Maples LIB CHOMIAK, Dave Kildonan NO CONNERY, Edward Portage Ia Prairie PC CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. Ste. Rose PC DACQUAY, Louise Seine River PC DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. Roblin-Russell PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NO DOER, Gary Concordia NO DOWNEY, James, Hon. Arthur-Virden PC DRIEDGER, Albert, Hon. Steinbach PC DUCHARME, Gerry, Hon. Riel PC EDWARDS, Paul St. James LIB ENNS, Harry, Hon. Lakeside PC ERNST, Jim, Hon. Charleswood PC EVANS, Clif Interlake NO EVANS, Leonard S. Brandon East NO FILMON, Gary, Hon. Tuxedo PC FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. Springfield PC FRIESEN, Jean Wolseley NO GAUDRY, Neil St. Boniface LIB GILLESHAMMER, Harold, Hon. Minnedosa PC HARPER, Elijah Rupertsland NO HELWER, Edward R. Gimli PC HICKES, George Point Douglas NO LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster LIB LATHLIN, Oscar The Pas NO LAURENDEAU, Marcel St. Norbert PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NO MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. Morris PC MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows NO McALPINE, Gerry Sturgeon Creek PC McCRAE, James, Hon. Brandon West PC MciNTOSH, Linda, Hon. Assiniboia PC MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. River East PC NEUFELD, Harold, Hon. Rossmere PC ORCHARD, Donald, Hon. Pembina PC PENNER, Jack Emerson PC PLOHMAN, John Dauphin NO PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC REID, Daryl Transcona ND REIMER, Jack Niakwa PC RENDER, Shirley St. Vital PC ROCAN, Denis, Hon. Gladstone PC ROSE, Bob Turtle Mountain PC SANTOS, Conrad Broadway ND STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC STORIE, Jerry Flin Flon NO SVEINSON, Ben La Verendrye PC VODREY, Rosemary FortGarry PC WASYLYCIA-LEIS, Judy St. Johns ND WOWCHUK, Rosann Swan River NO 63 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS We dne sday, July 10, 1991 TIME-Sp.m. Nancy Webster Cole, Telecommunications LOCATION- Winnipeg, Manitoba Employees CHAIRMAN - Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Elaine Zadorozny, Private Citizen Norbert) ATTENDANCE- 11 -QUORUM- 6 Written Presentations Submitted: Members of the committee present: AI Pitt, Private Citizen Hon.Messrs. Derkach, Manness, Stefanson MATTERSUNDER DISCUSSION: Mrs. Dacquay, Messrs. Evans (Brandon East), Bill 70-The Public Sector Compensation Evans (Interlake), Hickes, Lamoureux, Management Act Laurendeau, Rose, Mrs. Voclrey * * * •substitutions: Mr. Ashton for Mr.Evans Mr. Chairman: Order, please. Will the Standing (Brandon East) at (0140) Committee on Industrial Relations please come to Mr. Evans (Brandon East) for Mr. Ashton at order. This evening the standing committee will be (0457) considering Bill 70, The Public Sector WITNESSES: Compensation Management Act (Loi sur Ia gestion des salaires du secteur public). Judy Bradley, The Manitoba Teachers' Society * (2005) George Bergen, Private Citizen I would like to point out that this committee will Blair Hamilton, Canadian Union of Public also be considering Bill 70 tomorrow, July 11 at 1 0 Employees, Local 3551 a.m. and at 7 p.m.; Friday, July 12 at 1 p.m.; and Clyde Huff, Private Citizen Saturday, July 13 at 10 a.m. and continuing all day. Harry Mesman, Private Citizen I would like to inform the committeethat one card RobertOlien, Private Citizen and one letter have been received by the committee clerk with regard to Bill 70. The card is from Verna Doug Shattuck, PrivateCitizen Ziprick of Russell, Manitoba, who indicates her Joan Lyons, Private Citizen opposition to Bill 70. The letteris from M. Robinson Bruce Mackay, Private Citizen of Winnipeg who also expresses opposition to the bill. These items are onfil e with the committeeclerk Hugh Connelly, Private Citizen and are available for the perusal of the committee Ken Guilford, Private Citizen members. A written brief from Mr. AI Pitt of Annette Maloney, Private Citizen Winnipeg has been received and will be circulated to the members of the committee. Bruce Buckley, Private Citizen Is it the will of the committee that written Anne Gregory, Private Citizen submissions received be printed in the committee Shirley Lord, Private Citizen Hansard? Paul Moist, Private Citizen Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Richard Lennon, Private Citizen Mr. Chairman: Agreed. I would also like to remind Shirley Denesiuk, Canadian Union of Public the public that the process that will be followed by Employees, Local 998 this committee is that out-of-town presenters will be asked to identify themselves to thecommittee clerk Martin J. Stadler, Private Citizen and the committeewill endeavour to hear from these Marie Clow, Private Citizen persons first. Once the out-of-town presenters 64 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA July 10, 1991 have been heard from, the names will be called from causes problems with the Hansard when there are the list in numerical order. Is it still the wish of the a lot of interruptions, and we do lose a lot of the committee that we consider the out-of-town reporting stages of this bill. So I would appreciate if presenters? you would all hold it, and I am sure my committee Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Chairperson, members will adhere to that this evening. We will we had also indicated yesterday those individuals now start. unable to attend at subsequent committeehearings We will ask at this time if there are any out-of-town would also have the opportunity to ensure they presenters in attendance to please identify made a presentation. themselves to the clerk. I would also ask, Mr. Chairperson, if we, as a I am going proceed to call the next number on the committee, could perhaps give some indication to bill. We now call on No. 2, Judy Bradley, Manitoba the members of the public how late we will be sitting, Teachers' Society. Have you got a written or at least when we will assess the time that we will presentation? be sitting in this particular committee? We noted, yesterday I believe, at about midnight we had Ms. Judy Bradley (The Manitoba Teachers' assessed that. I think it is only fair that we give Society) : Yes, I have. some indication tonight as well, regardless of what Mr. Chairman: The clerk will just get it from you adjournment time we do select. and pass it around to the committee members. If * (2010) you will just give me a minute to get it around. Go Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance): ahead. Mr. Chairman, the governmentis prepared to do an Ms.Bradley: Good evening, committee Chairman assessment in and around midnight. Certainly, to and committee members. I thank you for the the extent that presentersare here, we are wanting opportunity to be before you on this wonderful to sit again late tonight into tomorrow morning, but summer evening regardingBill 70. If my papers do let us do an assessmentagain around midnight. not fly away I will be just fine here. Mr. Chairman: So it is agreed by the committee The Manitoba Teachers' Society makes this then we will reassessat 12 midnight? presentation to voice its opposition to the passage Some Honourable Members: Agreed. of Bill 70, The Public Sector Compensation Mr. Chairman: If a presenter is not here the first Management Act, an act that would suspend the time his or her name is called, that name will be collective bargaining rights of selected public sector dropped to the bottom of the list. If the presenter is workers. not here when his or her name is called a second While the act does not include teachers it would, time, that name will be dropped from the list. by regulation, enable the governmentto include any Howeve r, the committee will attempt to groups not specifically mentioned in the legislation. accommodate those persons who indicate that they Teachers could thus be included as some future are unable to present on certaindays but can attend date. There is, however, a more important issue: on others. the right of an employee group to bargain At this point, I would also like to indicate to the collectively with its employer for wages, benefits, members of the public that under the rules of and working conditions. decorum, the general public watching should not interfere or impede the proceedings of the The press release announced this proposed committee. This includes applauding, cheering, legislation quotes Mr. Manness as asking those heckling and booing. These meetings are held to groups employed by the people of Manitoba to put ensure that the public has the opportunity to make aside their wage demands for one year. The presentations on the legislation; however, this does passage of this act will not result in asking, but not mean that the public is permitted to disrupt the imposing a unilateral suspension of collective proceedings. This is a serious issue that people bargaining rights. The right of employees to bargain feel emotional about; however, decorum and collectively has evolved over a long history. To courtesy must be adhered to. We sincerely hope remove this right for whatever period of time, for any that this will happen here this evening. It also employee group, is regressive and wrong. July 10, 1991 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 65 The society is very concerned about the broad by the provincial budgets of '88 and '89 is now and ongoing authority which the provincial appearing in the form of Bill70. government is seeking under the terms of Bill 70. The proposed legislation is not the appropriate Certain sections of the proposed legislation are way for government to solve economic problems.