Printed (by Authority) by M Et G Print Holdings Ltd., Lord Street, Douglas, Isle of Man. REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS OF TYNWALD COURT Douglas, Wednesday, 17th November, 1982 at 10.30 am Present: The Governor (Rear Admiral Sir Nigel Cecil, K.B. E., C.B.). In the Council: The President of the Council (the Hon. J. C. Nivison, C.B.E.(, the Lord Bishop (the Rt. Rev. Vernon Nicholls), the Attorney-General (Mr. T. W. Cain), Mr. R. J. G. Anderson, Mrs. E. Q. Hanson, Messrs. R. E. S. Kerruish, E. G. Lowey, R. MacDonald, W. A. •Moore and P. Radcliffe, with Mr. T. A. Bawden, Clerk of the Council. In the Keys: The Speaker (the Hon. Sir Charles Kerruish, O.B.E.(, Messrs. W. K. Quirk, J. D. Q. Cannan, J. N. Radcliffe, Mrs. C. M. Christian, Dr. E. J. Mann, Messrs. A. A. Callin, D. G. Maddrell, R. A. Payne, M. R. Walker, N. Q. Cringle, Dr. D. L. Moore, Mr. C. A. Cain, Dr. H. D. Teare, C.V.O., Messrs. G. V. H. Kneale, A. C. Duggan, E. M. Ward, B.E.M., D. F. K. Delaney, D. Martin, J. A. Brown, with Mr. R. B. M. Quayle, Clerk of Tynwald. GOVERNMENT POLICY OBJECTIVES—DEBATE CONCLUDED. The Governor: Hon. members, we continue with item number 7 on the Agenda. The first to speak is the hon. member for Rushen, Mr. Cringle, followed by the hon. member for Ramsey, Dr. Teare. Mr. Cringle: Your Excellency, I find that sometimes, when debates are continued on the following day, it is difficult to get back into the tenor of the debate. However, I do not feel this morning in any way that we have to recap on anything that was said yesterday, and largely I believe that most of it was said, particularly in the two opening speeches which were made to us in relation to the motion which is on the Agenda Paper. I certainly this morning am accepting the motion on the Agenda Paper and not supporting Mr. Speaker's proposed amendment that it should be received and debated in the Branches. I am unashamedly—and have been on record as saying so • previously—in support of the idea of Executive Council immediately after the general election or within six months coming forward with what I referred to as a "Queens Speech", so in that context I like the idea of Executive Council or some leading part of government deciding what should be the policy. Looking at the White Paper in front of us, I must agree with Mr. President of the Council, though possibly he was a little harsh on the mover of the resolution in his comments, that it was difficult when going through the paper to find anything which was definite in a question of policy. It certainly provides a framework, but when we get to actually talking about what is going to happen over the next few years, I found it difficult to follow. I would envisage, when Executive Council grows up and our Government moves forward, that a policy debate on this sort of measure could very well ultimately be more important than the budget Government Policy Objectives— Debate Concluded. 1194 TYNWALD COURT, 17th NOVEMBER, 1982 estimate debates which we have become accustomed to over the last few years at March time, when we were talking at that stage of priorities. If Government, via a policy document, can establish what its policy is going to be, broadly working through the board system there should be no necessity to spend two days debating each board's individual priorities, because if Government as a whole—and I think Mr. Speaker's words of warning were important yesterday afternoon in relation to the elected members' chances— have accepted in a policy debate what is going to happen over the next few years, then we do not need to go into the detail of board's priorities at an estimate debate. So I agree with Mr. President of Council, and I would have preferred personally more direction, more definitive terms within the debate. Mr. President of Council did put emphasis on 3 (2) (a), (b) and (c) and the question that we would all say 'Hear, hear' to them, and similarly of course, when I read any report or whatever, I always turn to the summary at the end to see, when we have read all the words, exactly what they are saying. If you read paragraph 7 (1) what you find is that "The Committee's overall conclusion is that, due to the widespread recession, the Island's economy is currently depressed and the projections indicate that there are no immediate prospects for recovery." You then come on to paragraph 7 (3) of the conclusions and it says this time that "The overall conclusions of the Committee are that Tynwald should, taking account of the information supplied in the Policy Planning Programme, commit itself to several strategic goals", so you have got in 7 (1) and 7 (3) two overall conclusions, and when you turn the page you have these goals, A, B and C, which again go back to somewhat bland language. The object of the exercise, presumably, of forwarding to us the large policy planning booklet was that we should consider the white document along with all the mass of information which is in this one, so again I turned to the Policy Planning Programme summary and conclusions on the yellow sheet, and you turn to paragraph 9 of that and you find exactly repeated the words of the first conclusion: "The Committee's overall conclusion is that the Island's economy is currently depressed and the projections indicate that there is no immediate prospect for recovery"—end of story, so if we are looking for a drive, a forward moving force which is going to lift us out of our current depression, we do not particularly find it in the document. Having said that, I am supporting it, because I do believe that it is a framework and a first attempt of Government to try to establish a policy programme. Accepting that I think that, all right, this time we will let it ride. Next time a policy document comes forward I will certainly be looking for some major indication of how we are moving. We could very well have some decisions as to what are going to be the priorities of the Manx Government, the elected representatives, this Chamber as a whole, whether the emphasis is going to be on finance, on industry, or on tourism, all these sorts of things; at the present time there is no immediate guidance in there as to what are definitively going to be the powers of the Finance Board or Executive Council and saying that is the line on which we are going to move along, because that is the one which is going to help us to turn the corner. When we do talk about industry, employment prospects and training —all excellent stuff and all very good words indeed— I think that we really need to consider again what was almost opposition from amongst our two gurus, if you want to call them that, who came up with this planning report, insofar as the Chairman of Executive Council was merely, in his speech, saying that we go back to a full-blooded drive on new residents and an increase in population —and I accept that I was a signatory to a population committee of the last Government Policy Objectives— Debate Concluded. TYNWALD COURT, 17th NOVEMBER, 1982 T195 report which said that 75,000 was a realistic target, so I can see that as being a method. But equally, I was very much aware that when the Chairman of Finance Board made his speech, he almost as an aside said that the chairman was almost propounding a new residents policy, but he did not think that they were. Now, as for the two gentlemen who have come up with this document, there was in their addresses to us, I felt, some division, and of course it is very important indeed to me, and that is the one thing which I felt was really missing completely out of all the paperwork which we were sent. If we are talking about a drive in industry, or a drive for new residents, employment, that sort of thing in the Isle of Man at this very moment, never mind over the next five years, it is important to us because nowhere in this document has it considered, in my opinion, the social structure of the Isle of Man. Yesterday we heard a lot about the constitution of the government and the constitution possibly of the Isle of Man; there are certainly a lot of these facts in this document about the economy of the Isle of Man, but it is purely in bald terms about the economy, and I do not think that either of our two gentlemen have really paid much attention to the social structure of the Isle of Man or how we, the Government of the Isle of Man, would like to see the social structure. I would like to say at this stage that I feel at the moment we are a little in danger in the Government of the Isle of Man of dividing our society seriously, so that we have almost a two-tier system in the society in the Isle of Man. As well as looking at the constitution and the economy—and I know that they can have a bearing on it—we should consider what the society of the Isle of Man is, what the social structure is, so that we use the economy to have a decent social structure for the people of the Isle of Man.