D r a f t O n l y A p p r o v a l P e n d i n g SSUUMMMMAARRYY ooff PP RROOCCEEEEDDIINNGGSS SELECT INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE C OMMITTE E MEE TING INFORM ATIO N August 7, 2013 Rm. 302 State Capitol Building Cheyenne, Wyoming C OMMITTE E ME MBE RS PRE S E NT Representative Tom Lubnau, Speaker of the House, Chairman Representative Mark Baker Representative Rosie Berger Representative Gregg Blikre Representative Kermit Brown Representative Cathy Connolly Representative Kathy Davison Representative Mike Greear Representative Michael Madden Representative Glenn Moniz Representative John Patton Representative Ruth Petroff Representative Mary Throne Representative Nathan Winters Representative Dan Zwonitzer C OMMITTE E ME MBE RS A BSE NT Representative Tim Stubson LEGISL ATIV E SE RV ICE OFFICE ST AFF Dan Pauli, LSO Director Dave Gruver, Legislative Counsel Matt Obrecht, LSO Staff Attorney Ian Shaw, LSO Staff Attorney The Committee Meeting Summary of Proceedings (meeting minutes) is prepared by the Legislative Service Office (LSO) and is the official record of the proceedings of a legislative committee meeting. This document does not represent a transcript of the meeting; it is a digest of the meeting and provides a record of official actions taken by the Committee. All meeting materials and handouts provided to the Committee by the Legislative Service Office, public officials, lobbyists, and the public are on file at the Legislative Service Office and are part of the official record of the meeting. An index of these materials is provided at the end of this document and these materials are on file at the Legislative Service Office. For more information or to review meeting materials, please contact the Legislative Service Office at (307) 777-7881 or by e-mail at [email protected]. The Summary of Proceedings for each legislative committee meeting can be found on the Wyoming Legislature’s website at www.wyoleg.gov. PAGE 2 OF 6 OTHERS PRE S E NT AT ME E TING Please refer to Appendix 1 to review the Committee Sign-in Sheet for a list of other individuals who attended the meeting. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY The Committee met to elect a chairman, adopt rules for its investigation and discuss the organization, process and procedure of the Select Investigative Committee. CALL TO ORDER AND ELECTION OF CHAIRMAN Representative Tom Lubnau, Speaker of the House of Representatives, called the meeting to order at 1:00 p.m. Speaker Lubnau was elected chairman of the Committee. Chairman Lubnau made opening remarks and reviewed the Committee’s charge from Management Council. He discussed a proposed procedure for conducting the meeting and performing the duties assigned to the Committee. The following sections summarize the Committee's proceedings by topic. Please refer to Appendix 2 to review the Committee's Agenda. PUBLIC COMMENT ON COMMITTEE PROCESS Chairman Lubnau asked for public comment on the Committee’s charge and there was none. STAFFING OF COMMITTEE Dan Pauli, LSO Director, addressed the Committee. He described LSO’s unique duty in staffing this Committee and the general guidelines for LSO involvement as stated in the proposed rules, discussed later in the meeting. He emphasized the need for LSO to remain neutral and to avoid any perception that the LSO is guiding or influencing the Committee’s work. He proposed that the LSO's work for the Committee be similar to LSO’s involvement in all Committees. LSO cannot act as special investigators or special counsel for the Committee. LSO can perform administrative duties, conduct legal research and answer general questions as to law and regulation. OUTLINE ON PROCESS Chairman Lubnau reviewed the agenda for the meeting and LSO Staff Attorney Matt Obrecht provided information on draft rules and other issues that the Committee may discuss. Chairman Lubnau stated that the process and form that the Committee takes will be up to the Committee. He reviewed a proposal to divide into four subcommittees, each assigned unique issues. After discussion, the Committee voted to divide into four subcommittees, each to study separate issues, as follows: 1) Fremont County School District #38, Chair: Representative Mike Greear, Membership: Representatives Madden, Patton and Winter; 2) Personnel Issues, Chair: Representative Mary Throne, Membership: Representatives Davison, Petroff and Zwonitzer; 3) Budget / Fiscal Issues, Chair: Tim Stubson, Membership: Representatives Berger and Blikre; 4) Other Issues, Chair: Kermit Brown, Membership: Representatives Baker, Connolly and Moniz. SELECT INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE Summary of Proceedings WYOMING LEGISLATIVE SERVICE OFFICE • 213 State Capitol • Cheyenne, Wyoming 82002 TELEPHONE (307) 777-7881 • FAX 307-777-5466 • E-MAIL [email protected] • WEB SITE www.wyoleg.gov PAGE 3 OF 6 The Committee then passed a motion to have each subcommittee meet independently to identify what documentary evidence and witnesses should be brought before the Committee for purposes of a meeting in which the evidence will be presented and the Committee will become familiar with the basic issues. Chairman Lubnau will call such a meeting and all the evidence requested by the subcommittees will be presented. REQUEST UNDER W.S. 28-8-113 FOR ADDITIONAL MATERIALS Chairman Lubnau asked for suggestions from the Committee on what documents or materials the Committee would like to have in order to complete its investigation. The Committee discussed what to do with information that is confidential in nature and Mr. Obrecht explained that the Committee does have the authority to obtain confidential information. LSO research indicates that the Committee likely should adopt a process that will maintain the confidentiality of documents or other evidence during the investigation. Confidential information should be disclosed by the Committee only if and when it forms the basis for a recommendation for future legislative action. The Committee voted to have LSO, pursuant to W.S. 28-8-113, obtain all documents and evidence requested by the chairman of the subcommittees. Chairman Lubnau explained how an e-mail ballot might be used by the entire Committee to obtain Committee approval should a subpoena be needed to obtain documents. BUDGET REQUEST TO MANAGEMENT COUNCIL Dan Pauli discussed the costs of conducting one and two day meetings, depending on full-committee or subcommittee participation. The cost estimates did not include any preparation day salary or the costs of any independent counsel or technical consultants. After discussing the matter, the Committee voted to request a budget of $110,000.00 from Management Council. The Committee decided not to request funds to hire outside expertise at this time. Instead, the Committee will leave that option open should the Committee or a subcommittee later need such expertise. INITIAL RULES – REVIEW POTENTIAL RULES Mr. Obrecht introduced potential rules, a copy of which was available to the public and is included here as Appendix 3. He described LSO’s research which indicates that no specific set of procedures or protections is required. Other jurisdictions investigating public officials have, however, offered various protections. The rules presented to the Committee have been compiled from rules adopted by other jurisdictions. Mr. Obrecht went through each rule and the Committee was given the opportunity to ask questions. Public comment was then taken on the proposed rules. John Masters, Deputy Superintendent of Public Instruction, commented on the rules and explained a number of instances where he does not believe the rules provide adequate protection. Among other things, Mr. Masters asked that the Legislature or the Governor's Office provide counsel to the Office of Superintendent, the Department of Education and all witnesses. He asked that as much of the investigation process be open to the public as possible. He asked that the Committee carefully consider the standard it uses to measure the conduct in question. The Chairman discussed with Mr. Masters the Attorney General's decision not to provide counsel to Superintendent of Public Instruction Cindy Hill. Mr. Masters was not aware of any additional bases for providing counsel, but pointed to the general lack of specific guidance on issues surrounding SELECT INVESTIGATIVE COMMITTEE Summary of Proceedings WYOMING LEGISLATIVE SERVICE OFFICE • 213 State Capitol • Cheyenne, Wyoming 82002 TELEPHONE (307) 777-7881 • FAX 307-777-5466 • E-MAIL [email protected] • WEB SITE www.wyoleg.gov PAGE 4 OF 6 impeachment. Mr. Masters believes that counsel should be provided as a matter of fairness and pursuant to the will of the public. Representative Jaggi was present and commented about his belief that this is a matter created by the Legislature. Representative Jaggi believes that the rules do not provide adequate protection to Superintendent Hill and the Department of Education. M. Lee Hasenhaur, Anthony Buchard, Karl Allred, Joe Chasteen, Jennifer Young and Jamie Baty each testified. They all questioned whether the investigation is a proper use of Wyoming's tax dollars and resources. Some of them also testified to their belief that the Committee is improperly constituted with Legislators who are biased. Mr. Buchard believes the proposed rules are inadequate. Marguerite Herman, League of Women Voters, believes the investigation process needs to be as transparent as possible. She urged the Committee to use the LSO website to share information and to give minority views proper hearing. She believes adequate funding must be made available because of the importance of the issues. Superintendent of Public Instruction, Cindy Hill, then testified to the Committee. She explained why she believes the Committee and the House of Representatives are biased and how she is not being afforded sufficient protections to assure a fair process. She pointed to the good things she accomplished when she took office and defended the allegations made against her, including budget concerns and personnel matters. If she is allowed an adequate opportunity to defend her position, she believes neutral fact- finders will find her free of wrongdoing.