The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR JAMES E. GOODBY Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: December 10, 1990 Copyright 199 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background aised in New England Harvard University US Army Engineers & US Air Force Entered Foreign Service 1952 Atomic Energy Commission 1954,1959 Committee on Effects of Ioni.ing adiation Harold Stassen Edward Teller elations with Soviets Nuclear weapons US Disarmament Commission 1959,1960 1hrushchev Atmospheric Test Ban issue Cu2an missile crisis Policy Planning Council 1960,1963 Net Evaluation Committee 1ennedy 4hite House operations Nuclear war thinking Secretary 5cNamara China as a threat 5ultinational Force 657F8 issue US 5ission to European Community 1963,1969 EU ATO5 Le Defi American 9ean 5onet and a United States of Europe Shumann plan 1 EU Bureau 1969,1931 NATO matters ussians and European troop withdrawal SA7T I Brussels, Belgium 1931,1934 Counselor for Political Affairs Am2assador David 1ennedy Am2assador umsfeld NATO issues Henry 1issinger CSCE issue Soviet Union as European power Eastern Europe and the CSCE 5utual Balanced Force eduction 65BF 8 The Year of Europe Atlantic Charter 5ichel 9ou2ert French attitudes Political,5ilitary Bureau 1934,1933 Deputy Assistant Secretary Nixon resignation SA7T talks Defense Secretary Schlesinger NATO weapons standardi.ation Diego Garcia negotiations Donald umsfeld Intelligence and esearch Bureau 4hite House & summit planning Affairs 1933,1980 US,Soviet relations under Carter NSC and Br.e.inski Secretary Vance Neutron bom2 issue INF German political thinking Soviet brigade in Cu2a Vlassov 6Soviet8 defection drama 4arren Christopher Soviet invasion of Afghanistan Helsinki, Finland 1980,1981 Am2assador 2 FinlandAs neutrality President Urho 1ekkonen Arms Control and Disarmament Agency 1981,1980 Deputy Director Strategic arms talks eagan Eureka College speech ichard Perle General owney ADCA Bhit listC Conference on Disarmament in Europe 6CDE8 Nuclear exchange BgameC Conference on Disarmament in Europe 6CDE8 1980,1989 Helsinki and Stockholm meetings with Soviets Secretary Shult. Negotiations with Soviets Defense Department attitudes Arms Control and Disarmament Agency 1989 Inspector INTERVIEW DNoteE This transcript was not edited by Am2assador Good2yF %: I wonder if you could give us a little about your background, kind of where'd you come from. GOODBYE 4ell, I was born in Providence, hode Island, and moved, almost as soon as I was 2orn, 2ack to where my father and mother were actually living, which was in the small town of 7e2anon, New Hampshire. I lived, until I was a2out twenty,one, in New England, and I donHt 2elieve I ever left it, except perhaps for a day trip along the Hudson at one point, as I remem2er. I went to school in Haverhill, 5assachusetts. %: )hat school was that* GOODBYE 4ell, I went to Haverhill High School. And then, after I left Haverhill High School in 1943, I went to Harvard College and graduated from there in 1951. %: )hat was your major there* 0 GOODBYE I majored in geology. I was interested in science and always had 2een, 2ut, as I 2egan to think more a2out the world, I 2egan to get more interested in foreign affairs. And, as time went on, I reali.ed that science pro2a2ly wasnHt the area that I wanted to spend my life in. 4hen I was a senior...I happened to graduate early, I took some extra courses and finished Harvard in three and a half years and was wondering what to do. It was then of course during the 1orean 4ar, and one of the things that I thought of was the Foreign Service. And I thought of it mainly 2ecause I happened to see a poster in one of the college halls a2out the Foreign Service examination. So I signed up for it and took the examination, I think it was in the spring of 1951. After that, I got a jo2 rather Iuickly with the Army Engineers. 4e were at that time 2uilding the DE4 line, so,called, the Distant Early 4arning line, radar to defend ourselves against attack from the Soviet Union. Also building bases in Greenland at a place called Thule, and they needed geologists to do some work for them on permafrost and ice characteristics and so forth. And, since I had done some work in that area, they hired me. I spent a little over a year working for the Army Engineers. %: )ere you up in Thule* GOODBYE No, I was working in a refrigerator in Boston, in something called the Frost Effects 7a2oratory. But they flew down samples from Thule, and samples from these places up in northern Canada where the radar was 2eing 2uilt. And my jo2 was to take small samples of these materials and look at them under a polari.ing microscope and descri2e them and try to say what I could a2out the strength characteristics of them. Fairly interesting, 2ut, again, I was fairly well convinced also I didnHt want to spend my life doing that. I did, actually, during that time, take a leave of a2sence, and went to graduate school at the University of 5ichigan where I again studied geology,,things like optical crystallography and so forth. And, while there, I learned that I had passed the Foreign Service examination,,much to my surprise, because I hadnHt really taken any courses at all in foreign affairs, except for one government course, I think. But I passed it, and, when I went back to Boston, to the Frost Effects 7a2oratory, I knew it was pro2a2ly a matter of time, if I passed the oral, before IHd go down to 4ashington and leave the Army Engineers. And I did take the oral. Passed it. I talked there very largely a2out things that I knew a2out. I had a very nice interviewing team, and they were kind to me and recogni.ed that I didnHt know much a2out foreign affairs. So we talked a2out the San Andreas fault. There had 2een an earthIuake out in California recently at that time, so we talked Iuite a 2it a2out that and other things that I could talk a2out, and I managed again to sIueak by that. 4 So I went down to the Foreign Service. 7eft the business of being a geologist, and, in Septem2er 1952, I joined the Foreign Service. %: Did you have a class that you went in with at that time* GOODBYE Indeed I did. %: Could you kind of describe the makeup of the class, and also could you characteri,e kind of how they saw the world and their mission to it* GOODBYE Yes, I think there were twenty,two people in the class. Two of them were women, the rest were men. I think nearly all of us had not served in 4orld 4ar II, but a couple of us were veterans of 4orld 4ar II. There were, in other words, a couple of people who were in their J00s, thirty,five or ,six. I happened to 2e twenty,two at the time, I was the youngest, and most of the others were in their mid, to late J20s. 5ost of them had done some graduate workK they all had speciali.ed in foreign affairs. I was, I think, the only scientist among them. And they had a little different cultural outlook on the world than I did, at least it seemed to me. They were much more familiar, it seemed to me, with the world than I was. That is to say, they seemed to know a2out what life was pro2a2ly like in foreign countries. And I was, as I saw myself, highly provincial, and I didnHt really think that I really knew as much as they did. %: )ell, you'd been on the Hudson at one point. GOODBYE I had been as far as the Hudson iver, thatHs right. I canHt tell you that they had large views a2out the world, although it was, of course, a pretty exciting time. In 1952, it was in the depths of the Cold 4ar. I do remem2er during that time that George 1ennan was PNGed from 5oscow, and we did talk a2out that Iuite a lot. %: PN01D means basically kicked out. Persona non grata. GOODBYE Persona non Lgrataed,L right. And we talk a2out a lot of Iuite specific things, you know, a2out details of life in the Foreign Service and things we were doing. Some of the people were young marrieds, and I had just recently gotten married and was wondering a2out their life. It was very much a kind of a nuts and bolts kind of conversation. I donHt recall that we ever really did get into large geopolitical issues. %: 2ut I'm wondering, just trying to catch the spirit of the times, did you look upon this as a career* I mean, was this what most of you were planning to do for the rest of your lives, or was this an interlude* GOODBYE 4ell, I think most of the class saw it as a lifetime commitment. At that time, I wasnHt sure I did want it as a lifetime commitment, partly because I felt a little bit out of it, as I suggested already. In fact, what happened to me of course was that I did finally go into 5 the Air Force in 1952, right after I finished the basic officer course, and spent a2out a year in the Air Force. %: )hat were you doing in the Air Force* GOODBYE 4ell, I was going to school almost all the time, because the Air Force was trying to stockpile technically trained people. I think the Air Force expected there was going to 2e a major war sooner or later with the Soviet Union.