Tactics Discussions Archive 2006 By Ray Belanger (Rug) on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 12:00 am: Edit how come no one uses this firum any more? By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 04:31 pm: Edit 'Cause no one has come up with a good tactical conundrum that needs discussing recently, I'd figure. Any ideas? -Peter By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 09:39 pm: Edit ISC Vs. Hydran How should the ISC handle the determined H that is determined to close and moves to take the plasma on diff shields. By Scott Moellmer (Goofy) on Friday, February 03, 2006 - 11:46 pm: Edit === Concentrate std G('s)/F combos, or EPT? ;) By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 01:34 am: Edit Concede. The Hydran is invincible. (Except when he gets to range 0 and the HBs miss...) Seriously, though, if the Hydran tries too hard to charge and you are ready for it, he will lose. String launch plasma, OL the PPD, park, launch shuttles -- if he charges through all that, he will not have enough left to hurt you as much as you have hurt him. The key is to figure out at what point to stop trying to stay away from him and brace to receive the charge. If he catches you while you are still trying to run away, things will not go well for you. By Peter D Bakija (Bakija) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 01:55 am: Edit I don't think string launching plasma is going to work that well--between the ship gatlings and the two tractored fighters gatlings, it'd be pretty easy to chop them up and lose a couple flank sheilds. I'd think that launching both G torps so that they'll hit inside of 10 unless he turns off is the way to start the game--if he turns off, you might be able to score an OL PPD on his aft sheilds. If he doesn't turn off, shoot the PPD as a standard, blast up his fronts with phasers and a rear launched F as he closes, and plan on keeping the range open as long as you can. On T2, run as far as you can and reload, plan on parking either by hitting the wall or starting that way on T3, and hope you have shot him up enough by the time he corners you. -Peter By Andy Palmer (Andypalmer) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 02:16 am: Edit String launch the torps (standards + pseudos + an F if you can), OL the PPD. Do NOT stop. The Hydran likely won't be tractoring the fighters (power+vulnerability). Turn 2 - RUN! Still, this IS a tough matchup for the ISC; one hex of position off on T1 and its all over. By Kenneth Jones (Kludge) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 09:03 am: Edit I've tried mass launches. String launches etc. The Methane head still kicks my hinie So any help/arguments etc will only increase my understanding of this match up. One tactic I used to use was a Fast/medium/Fast speed plot with a PPD shot ending at R10 with a dual G launch with a ready HET, and a F chaser. I'm thinking on going back to it but unless I get some decent internals the H will chase me down before I can rearm and ream my ship By Ken Lin (Old_School) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 11:15 am: Edit There are many ways to play it from both sides - overall pretty even. However, the ISC has the capability to be the aggressor on the 1st pass. If the PPD is firing at R15 (sounds like you are trying to entirely avoid r8), that is taking a lot of the pressure off the Hydran because he doesn't have to worry about your phasers. How about fire the OL PPD at r8, with some combination of torps out 4-5 hexes in front of you, and holding your phasers for r5 (if he contnues to close) or r8 (if he turns off). Believe me, that is a lot for the Hydran to deal with, and if he crashes through, you still have plenty of additional torps to chuck at him. Give it a try, and report back. By Frank DeMaris (Kemaris) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 02:19 pm: Edit The last time I took the ISC against a hydran, I took a Paul Scott approach. Oblique at R10, launch the F and G torps on that side, turn in (ideally to R8 for a PPD OL, maybe just 5 pulses). Continue stringing out torps, including pseudos. ISC timing must be perfect, but he can strip the hydran of weaponry before the hydran gets close enough for the kill. Unfortunately, the hydran thought my setup was so good, he turned off and maintained R9 for the rest of the turn. Sigh. By Andy Vancil (Andy) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 04:03 pm: Edit Peter, String launching has its risks, but so does mass launching. The difficulty with facing the Hydran (in any ship) is that it doesn't have to make as many decisions in EA, but can react during the turn. If you launch en masse, that simplifies the decision-making for him. If your timing or board position is off just a little bit, he can gain a big advantage. If you string launch, then he has to make more decisions - turn off or charge through. If he decides to turn off, then you still have plasma on board. If he decides to charge through, he can end up taking a lot more damage than intended when you launch more. If he charges through one and then turns off when you launch more, he has eat one for no gain. String launching can take away some of his advantage in reactivity. The charging Hydran can be brutal. In one memorable victory I had, when the ISC conceded, I was down about 120 shield boxes, and he had one down shield and 75 internals. The key there was that after I had evaded/gatted down/taken on the flank his torps and cornered him, he was still trying to run, rather than stand and fight. An important thing to realize is that the Hydran can't just blindly charge anyone. He can't have the speed, and the fusions armed, and the gats ready to shoot you, and the gats used on torps, and the gats available to knock down your suicide shuttles, all in one turn. He can end up at the doorstep with less firepower than his opponent. At the start of the game, mass launches make more sense. If you can delay the close-in fight for a couple turns, you can maybe take care of the fighters, wear down his forward shielding a bit, let him slow down a bit to rearm phasers, and so on. After that, I think the string launch is best. By William E. Wood (Wxmanwill) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 04:52 pm: Edit I think your focus as the ISC player should be controlling the range (w/speed) and sanding off the Hydran's front shields. No ship is more vulnerable to the mizia thang. You have a one P-1 advantage so it will come down to a race between your ability to get his front shields down before he makes a hole in your shields... to let his hellbores chew on you. Good luck. By hughes b hoyle iv (Skein) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 04:54 pm: Edit Hydrans always get me My general approach for the attempt is offside g launcher as an enveloper range 10 to tempt the turn off. PPd at 15 to chew through shield . Turn towards far my start corner and launch the g and f together. Hydran just eats it all. Even with 20ppd dammage , 40 from enveloping g , and a stacked 40 g and f. He will phaser use his 4 phaser g`s on the torps and just degrade them too much. You just cant make him turn away. He will get the range 8 shot in return and you cannot engage any farther away and do any dammage at all with your puny plasma. His 4 fighter fusions beams and his 5 phaser ones will drop a shield and then two overloaded hellbores will hit. On turn one he will brick to stay with the fighters while overloading the bores. Turn two he runs and setups the turn 3 impulse 1 instant kill. Not a dang thing you can do about it. By James Mcmurray (Jmcmurra) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 08:12 pm: Edit Prior to saying this I should mention that I've only played one tournament game (my hydran vs. his andros). He said he'd never been beaten so I beat him :-) Hughes: Why are you enveloping the G on turn 1. You've already said it won't scare him away, so it would probably be better to just launch it normal. It also forces him to try to decide which G is real. If you overload you've given him all the info he needs to keep coming in. By hughes b hoyle iv (Skein) on Saturday, February 04, 2006 - 11:18 pm: Edit Because he only needs one shield the front one to keep me from miziang all his weapons away. When you string launch which you MUST do as a ISC you allow him to take 2 plasma sets on the other two front shields.