This transcript was exported on Jun 24, 2021 - view latest version here. Announcer: Welcome to The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast, a podcast all about leadership, change, and personal growth. The goal? To help you lead like never before, in your church or in your business. And now, your host Carey Nieuwhof. Carey Nieuwhof: Well, hey everybody and welcome to episode 426 of the podcast. My name is Carey Nieuwhof. I hope our time together today helps you lead like never before. Well, we're going in a different direction today. I've always appreciated Ed Stetzer, but particularly, over these last few years. We're going to go in a different direction. We're going to talk about things I don't usually talk about and won't for a long time. The evangelical reckoning, QAnon, conspiracy theories, and why extremes are not the norm. If you follow my writing, you know I'm a little bit concerned and have been for a number of years now, about the extremism building in leadership, and particularly, church leadership. So we're going to talk about that today. And yeah, Ed Stetzer is the voice that I wanted to bring in to have that conversation. Carey Nieuwhof: Today's episode is brought to you by Pro Media Fire. You can sign up for social media management and get 10% off your first year at promediafire.com/carey. And by World Vision, sign up for their free web series Right Side Up Soul Care with Danielle Strickland at worldvision.org/carey. I'm going to come back at the end of this episode when we're done and do the What I'm Thinking About segment and talk about how to lead with love. I know that sounds like all flowery and all that stuff, but I think it's really important. I've got five principles that I think can really help you develop a voice that I hope will be helpful. At least these are the principles that I try to use in guiding my voice. So that's coming up at the end of the episode. Carey Nieuwhof: And for those of you who, I know a lot of you know Ed. If you don't, Ed Stetzer PhD serves as the Dean of the School of Mission, Ministry and Leadership at Wheaton College. He is the executive director of the Wheaton College Billy Graham Center. He has planted, revitalized, and pastored churches, trained pastors and church planters on six continents. He has two masters degrees, two doctorates. He's written hundreds of articles, and is the regional director for Low San north America. He's a contributing editor for Christianity Today, a columnist for Outreach magazine. In addition, he's founding editor of The Gospel Project and hosts a national radio show, Ed Stetzer Live. And in his spare time, he has family and sleeps, I think some days. Anyway, Ed's one of those people whose output just completely blows me away. Carey Nieuwhof: Yeah, we're going to go down a road we don't usually do. I would like any comments to be respectful, but hopefully it's helpful clarifying and illuminating because here's the goal. The goal behind having this episode and doing what we're doing, what Ed and I are talking about, is to get us moving in the right direction and fulfilling our mission and getting rid of the distractions and noise that can sometimes take us down and maybe get in the way of doing what we're trying to do. Carey Nieuwhof: CNLP_426 –With_Ed-Stetzer (Completed 06/18/21) Page 1 of 33 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jun 24, 2021 - view latest version here. So here's a shocking fact for you. On average, people are spending two hours and 24 minutes a day on social media. That's a lot of time. So clearly, the people you want to reach, which is what we're about on this podcast, are on Facebook and Instagram. But, here's the struggle. The algorithm is changing constantly, design trends are shifting rapidly, and creating engaging content is hard work. Online growth is challenging, and that's where Pro Media Fire can help you. They have a dedicated social media team that will handle the strategy, the design, the content creation and actual posting for you. So with Pro Media Fire, you save time and grow online while their digital team does all the work. Complete social media management and digital growth is just a few clicks away. As a listener of this podcast, you receive 10% off your first year at promediafire.com/carey. Carey Nieuwhof: And the deepest truths about living like Jesus often come from people who have been through a really difficult time. And that's why World Vision has asked Danielle Strickland to put together a brand new series called Right Side Up Soul Care. And World Vision and Danielle will help you listen to the voices of leaders from around the world who have used their suffering and persecution to build and strengthen their faith. It's a free web series, and you can get it by going to worldvision.org/carey. That's worldvision.org/carey. Here's why they're doing it. They're really concerned about leaders and keeping you fresh for the long haul, as am I. And with all that said, let's dive into my conversation that I hope will be helpful and enlightening and maybe perspective giving, with Ed Stetzer. Carey Nieuwhof: Ed, I'm so glad to be with you again today. Thanks for coming on. Ed Stetzer: Well, technically I'm with you. So I'm excited to be with you today cause it's your show. Carey Nieuwhof: Well, that's great. Hey, for those of you who are watching on YouTube, you've got this nice step and repeat behind you. I was joking that maybe you were being drafted, finally. Right? Somebody saw the talent and they're like, "Yeah, totally, you're going to play for us next season." Ed Stetzer: We had none of these things like last year, but now we've got these logo things. Everything's a logo and I got to move to make sure it's not a logo, but yeah, 2020, 2021. Everything's got a screen now. Carey Nieuwhof: Yeah, you're right. You're right. Well, this has been quite a season for all of us and for you as well. I want to start with something positive because we're going to cover a lot of challenging areas today. What are some of the best things you've seen in the church or in leadership in general over the last year, year and a bit? Ed Stetzer: I've seen a lot of churches step up, stand out, stand in the gap to seek to show and share the love of Jesus to their communities. I think though, it's been a tough year for the people who call themselves evangelicals. I think it's been a year where many local churches, evangelical and others, and we're living CNLP_426 –With_Ed-Stetzer (Completed 06/18/21) Page 2 of 33 Transcript by Rev.com This transcript was exported on Jun 24, 2021 - view latest version here. on mission. And you know, for someone who for 20 years has been writing angsty blogs and podcasts and books about how the church needs to be on mission and leave the building and all that sort of stuff. And suddenly there was no choice and many churches, I mean, there are always outliers that get depressed and all this, but what I've seen is so many churches step up and really seek to be the hands and feet of Jesus in their community. And I think that's super encouraging. It hasn't been without cost, but it's been super encouraging to see. Carey Nieuwhof: That's good to know. When you look, because you deal with a lot of students, graduate students mostly, but you're surrounded by students at Wheaton and at the Billy Graham Institute. Correct me on that title. Ed Stetzer: Wheaton College Billy Graham Center. But yeah, it's all good. Carey Nieuwhof: Billy Graham Center. That's what I was looking for. Thank you. What do you see in terms of hope for the next generation? Because it's mostly like we have a young listenership here for the most part and there's a lot of like, they're pretty much all Gen Z going through right now for undergrad. And then you got a lot of Millennials who are in the graduate program at this point. So what are you seeing in the next generation? Ed Stetzer: We do see, as Christian practice and identification predominantly has declined both in the US and Canada, you see a lot of people who were sort of nominally Christian in their commitment and faith who no longer identify as that, but many of the nominals are becoming the nones, the N O N E S. And so with that, it has actually created, among those who are using the name Christian to describe and define themselves, who are seeking to live for the Lord. It actually makes it more counter-cultural. So one of the things that we've seen is that though Gen Z, Millennials are less religious as a whole, just using the term of the research.