BRITISH-IRISH INTER-PARLIAMENTARY BODY COMHLACHT IDIR-PHARLAIMINTEACH NA BREATAINE AGUS NA hÉIREANN _____________________________________________ THIRTY-FOURTH PLENARY SESSION 5 and 6 March March 2007 Castleknock Hotel, Dublin _________________________________________________________________ OFFICIAL REPORT (Final Revised Edition) (Produced by the British-Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association) In Attendance Co-Chairman Mr Pat Carey T.D. Rt Hon Paul Murphy MP Members and Associate Members Mr John Austin MP Mr Tony Baldry MP The Baroness Blood MBE Senator Paul Bradford Mr Johnny Brady TD Rt Hon the Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville CH PC Ms Joan Burton T.D. Mr Alun Cairns AM Mr John Carty TD Mr Paudge Connolly T.D. Mr Seymour Crawford TD Mr Quentin Davies MP Dr Jimmy Devins TD Mr Jim Dobbin MP The Lord Dubs Ms Helen Eadie MSP Mr John Ellis TD Mr Damien English TD Mr Jeff Ennis MP Mr Paul Flynn MP Mr Jim Glennon TD The Lord Glentoran CBE DL Lord Gordon Mr Dominic GrieveMP Mr John Griffiths AM Senator Brian Hayes Baroness Harris Ms Meg Hillier MP Ms Cecilia Keaveney TD Mr Séamus Kirk TD Dr Dai Lloyd AM Mr Elfyn Llwyd MP Mrs Rosemary McKenna CBE MP Mr Andrew Mackinlay MP Mr David McLetchie MSP Rt. Hon. Michael Mates MP Senator Martin Mansergh Dr John Marek AM Senator Paschal Mooney Mr Arthur Morgan TD Connetable Daniel Murphy Senator Francie O’Brien Ms Liz O’Donnell TD Mr Jim O’Keeffe TD Senator Mary O’Rourke Mr Séamus Pattison TD Ms Jenny Randerson AM The Hon. Steve Rodan SHK Mr Chris Ruane MP Mr Joe Sherlock TD The Lord Smith of Clifton Mr Iain Smith MSP Mr Robert Walter MP Senator Diarmuid Wilson ALSO IN ATTENDANCE (FOR ALL OR PART OF PROCEEDINGS) The Taoiseach Mr Bertie Ahern TD Minister of State at the Department of Health and Children; Justice Equality and Law Reform and the Department of Education and Science (with special responsibility for Children) Mr Brian Lenihan TD STEERING COMMITTEE Co-Chairmen Mr Pat Carey TD Rt Hon Paul Murphy MP Members Deputy Alan Breckon Mr Seymour Crawford TD The Lord Dubs Mr Séamus Kirk TD Mr Dai Lloyd AM Rt Hon Michael Mates MP Mr Murray Tosh MSP OFFICIALS Joint Clerks Ms Alda Barry, British Clerk Mr Eoin Faherty, Irish Clerk Irish Policy Advisor Ms Máire Flanagan Delegation Clerks Mr Sean Wixted (Scotland) Mr Peter Kellam (Wales) Ms Tara Wharton (Ireland) Committee Clerks to the Body Committee A: Sovereign Matters Ms Máire Flanagan Ms Nerys Welfoot Committee B: European Affairs Mr Mike Clark Ms Elaine Hollowed Committee C: Economic Ms Elaine Hollowed Ms Tracey Garratty Committee D: Environmental and Social Ms Audrey Nelson Ms Elaine Hollowed Secretariat Mrs Veronica Carr Sir Michael Davies KCB Mrs Amanda Healy Support Staff Mr Harry Lester Ms Sarah Muldoon British–Irish Parliamentary Reporting Association Reporting team for 34th Plenary Meeting Mr Brendan Doherty Mr Jim Donohue Mr Ross Gunby Mr Meinir Harris Mr Fergus Hurley Mr Rob Littlejohn Monday 5 March 2007 The Body met at 9.34 am. PLENARY BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Good morning, everybody. The British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body (BIIPB) is now in public session. The Co-Chairman, Paul Murphy, and I are delighted to welcome you to this part of Dublin. I hope that you have had a pleasant stay to date, and we look forward to a productive couple of days. I must make a number of preliminary announcements before proceeding with the agenda. All Members — including me — must switch off their pagers, bleepers, BlackBerrys and mobile phones. It is not sufficient to turn them to silent; they must be switched off completely. Otherwise, they will interfere with the transmission system. I also remind Members that the proceedings of the Body do not attract parliamentary privilege. NEW MEMBERS The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Since the previous plenary, there has been a change in membership. Steve Rodan from the Isle of Man Government has replaced the Hon Tony Brown. We congratulate Tony on his appointment as Chief Minister of the Isle of Man Government. Some Members: Hear, hear. The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): It is onwards and upwards for everybody here. [Laughter.] Three Members of the Body will not be seeking re-election. Séamus Pattison TD has been a Member of Dáil Éireann since October 1961 and is known here as the Father of the House. He has been a Member of the Body since its inception, apart from the period 1997-2002, when he was Ceann Comhairle in the Dáil. Deputies Jim Glennon and Joe Sherlock will also not be seeking re-election. We wish each of them the best in the future. [Applause.] Speaking of elections, we wish everybody in all jurisdictions the very best in whatever elections are being fought. There are elections to the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly on 3 May 2007. There will be an election here — Senator Mary O’Rourke: Tell us when. [Laughter.] The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): It will be some time before 4 July, and there are other changes imminent, I suppose. ASSOCIATE MEMBERS The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): I must inform the Body that, in accordance with rule 2(a), the following associate Members have accepted the invitation of the Steering Committee to assume the powers and responsibilities of Members for the entire sitting: Quentin Davies MP; Jim Dobbin MP; Baroness Harris of Richmond; John Austin MP; Lord Gordon of Strathblane; Connetable Daniel Murphy from the States of Jersey; Jenny Randerson AM; Alun Cairns AM; Michael McMahon MSP; Helen Eadie MSP; Joan Burton TD; and Paudge Connolly TD. I should also inform Members that at 3.30 pm, following Ms Lesley Irving’s address to the Body on the Scottish experience of racism and sectarianism, a group photograph will be taken, either indoors or outdoors, depending on the weather. The Steering Committee has suggested that, owing to the tight timeframe, the usual 11.30 am coffee break should not be taken — coffee is available outside the room, and Members can come in and out as they need to — because the scheduled debate on recent political developments may take more time than we had originally allowed for it. PROGRAMME OF BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Members will have received a copy of the proposed Programme of Business. I move that the proposed order of business be adopted. Are there any objections? Programme of Business agreed. RECENT POLITICAL DEVELOPMENTS The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Those Members who wish to contribute to the debate on recent political developments, and who have not already given their names to the Clerks, should do so as soon as possible. The Steering Committee proposes to limit speeches to three minutes, with five minutes for the opening and winding-up speeches. I am anxious to adhere to that timeframe in order that all Members who wish to do so can have their say. The Lord Dubs: If I may, I would like, from the British side, to congratulate Ireland on certain events on Saturday 24 February at Croke Park. Most of us were delighted not only with the outcome but with the way in which it happened. It was a tremendous political, as well as a sporting, success. Congratulations. [Applause.] The Co-Chairman (Mr Pat Carey TD): Thank you very much. We stole the previous one as well, but we will not talk about that. The Clerk tells me that Ireland won the parliamentary contest by 17 points to 12 points. I am not sure whether any Members present can claim any credit for that result. Before we move on to debate the motion, I will say a brief word, and Paul Murphy will also have a word or two to say. Yet again the Body, and politics on this island, has entered an important period. Elections will take place in Northern Ireland on Wednesday, and that is all part of the outworking of the St Andrews Agreement and the Good Friday/Belfast Agreement. Some significant events have already taken place, including the Sinn Féin Ard-Fheis, at which the party leadership’s recommendation to support the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) and the rule of law received the endorsement of its members. The other important event that has probably gone unnoticed — apart from what Lord Dubs has said — has been the fact that discussions around the election campaign have been focused on economic and social issues. That is something that the Body can claim some credit for, in that Members highlighted the need for that kind of approach to be taken in Northern Ireland. It is heartening to see that issues such as rural planning, water rates and early school leaving are being debated. We look forward to the period between Wednesday and 26 March, when we hope to see a functioning Assembly and Executive set up. Let us hope that we will be able to look forward to interacting with the Executive through the Body and that everyone on that Executive will play his or her part. We will encourage that and do our best to encourage the fullest possible participation in the Body, and if that requires addressing the name of the Body, or whatever, we will not be found wanting. Some Members may have noticed that one of the newspapers today reports that British and Irish officials will meet later this week to discuss an economic package for Northern Ireland, and we all welcome that. The National Development Plan (NDP) that the Irish Government published contains a significant all-island dimension.