George A. Smathers Oral History Interview—JFK #4, 5/27/1982 Administrative Information Creator: George A. Smathers Interviewer: Sheldon M. Stern Date of Interview: May 27, 1982 Location: Washington, D.C. Length: 38 pages Biographical Note George A. Smathers (1913 - 2007) was a United States Senator from Florida who served in office from 1951 to 1969. This interview focuses on the relationship between John F. Kennedy (JFK) and Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ), JFK’s political career before his election to the presidency, and LBJ’s discomfort regarding his position as vice-president, among other issues. Access Restrictions Open. Usage Restrictions Copyright of these materials have passed to the United States Government upon the death of the interviewee. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. 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Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation Smathers, George A., recorded interview by Sheldon M. Stern, on May 27, 1982, (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program. Oral History Interview Of George A. Smathers Although a legal agreement was not signed during the lifetime of George A. Smathers, upon his death ownership of the recording and transcript of his interview for the Oral History Program passed to the John Fitzgerald Kennedy Library. The following terms and conditions apply: 1. The transcript is available for use by researchers. 2. The tape recording shall be made available to those researchers who have access to the transcript. 3; Copyright to the interview transcript and tape is assigned to the United States Government. 4. Copies of the transcript and the tape recording may be provided by the Library to researchers upon request for a fee. 5. Copies of the transcript and tape recording may be deposited in or loaned to institutions other than the John F. Kennedy Library. George A. Smathers—JFK #4 Table of Contents Page Topic 1 Relationship between John F. Kennedy (JFK) and Lyndon B. Johnson (LBJ) 1 1952 Senatorial race between JFK and Henry Cabot Lodge 3 1960 presidential election 5 JFK’s 1956 bid for vice-presidency 11 Smathers on working with LBJ in the Senate 20 On JFK’s decision to make LBJ his vice president 23 LBJ’s trip to India 26 Smathers’ respect for Lady Bird Johnson 28 LBJ’s health problems 32 Distrust between Kennedy and Johnson staffs 36 Bobby Baker scandal Oral History Interview with George Smathers Date : May 27, 1ns2 Place: ilashinr.ton DC By Sheldon M. Stern For the John F. Kennedy Library Smathers: ••• thi s is a part of the oral history of •• • Stern: That's right . Smathers : ''" .. of Johnson's, or Kennedy ' s? Stern: Johnson's and Kennedy's. That' s right . Smathers: Johnson and Kennedy. Stern: That ' s right. t/l Smathers : Is iL , are you <io inc it for Johnson, pf. for Kennedy? Stern: I' m doing it for thf' Kennedy Library. Smathers: For the Kenn~dy Libr2ry . Stern: That ' s ri ;-o; ht. I worn1er if you coul rl just bPE;in wi th your earl i est reco l lecti ons of the relationship between the two mPn in the senate , when you •vere all in the senate . I k:1ow , for example , thc.t Johnson cal led JFK the night· that h0 beat Lor1r,e [Henry Ca ot L o<'~e J i n ' 52 to conr..re.tu] 2te 1 1in, whP.n Ke11nnr3y rrns sti] l i n thi:. c on;~ ress .• u gf;estinf that 11t lrast they had h.9d a relcii-ionship even c.t that stage . -2- YeS . Wel 1 what was interestine about that particular race, Smather s : 1 startin;:. th.:>re. I h;:, r\ )C;:tlen Clfltl''e PerpPr [Eleur e D. Pepprr] in 1r":;n , anrl this was then 1°5'. •.n.-l I:ennPc.y , afLer I'd won, I w;:is <>VPr U • re> one •'ay, v isitint, •:iver Lo Lhc l:cuse , Rr>presrmlr.live r,en11Pr]~1 1-01: a bar b.:c : ai lh&l t i nlP , lte CQultln-1- 'Wll <.:roun·l very r~·.1c i . :r went ov0r Lo see hir'l because we ~rn , -;..;e w;:;s vr~ry close friends. An 1 he coulr hc;r_.ly i·•alk . He ' _ ar1 an operati on. An < I remernl11-· r we were st<mr'.in; at the back , on 1 he House of Pe 1 1resen1 at i ves ' floor , stan .in:-' on t h e bacl bcc2use hf' cnulr:n • t si ' 1'mm, an eanin~ over the rail Lalkini:,. An •~ ie said "I ' • ~·o i ne to run arainsr Cabot Lor' ~_;e next ye2r" ..nJ I sair. "You can' l beat ii m" . i\n1 1 he sciirl 111./ell , I think I can" . :,n r ~ I s>irl 11'7ell , I jusr haf"' Lo see you I 0 it. l·/hy 'on ' L you wail ' s~ tonstall [Leverett Seltnnstall] is ~o in[ to relire pretty sonn, anr you cc>n ,..... tc.kP tllilt spot'. An(' he sai• 111!'0, I -'on ' t want to va it. You , you 're alre<Hly i n the senc:te . I ' d just e soon , I' m liLe you , I ' "~ jusL A soon lwve a really b i g job , <' bett Pr ~ !' job, t 1an just a con i_ ressrnan. You heve to run every two years for congressman, you worl' Pwfully hard". So anyway , he said 1e wRs ~oins to run. /\.n•l J1e. rJi•l run of course , and wo n. ?rankly, much to my surprise at Lh<> start. Ilut i t was pretty evi lent as the campai;:'n went on that Kennedy was ou t- orranizi(.O 'T' LorlP-c anr\ out-'>Torkinp him, am\ rloi n[; just a better job at ~r:ttin,c• ar01m l thr. stat<> , An•1 of course , as I used to ki -3 - Jack Kennedy all the time , about he has his ~iole state , compared to in Flori ca , I used to say "You know you on' t have any tough th in ~ , runninR i n Mas sachuset ts ~ You can get in th<' mirldle of Lhe town sriuare in Boston an_ shout an reach all your constituents , north, south, east or vst . 'le 2ot counties in Florirla that have nore acres in thPn rhan you havP. in the whole state of Hassachusettd0:) He s2ic'. "1 don ' L believe that•t. So we ha . 2 bet . ( lm1[;h) I won the bet, cause we do have sornc lar3e county arec-s. Bul o:nyway , J2ck did c;, r1ar,nificcnt job , He was beautifully orsanize<l , and he •vas youn:;. 2nl1 &ti ractive ancl ~ smart as he coul•' be . 0 Ile r;:;n a :_',OoC. race anr1 r-ron . But later on e used to use that story on nC'. At the Dcmocr<'tic Convention in 1°r-o when Ke.nnP<ly ~ot t 1e nomination, finP.l]y , I har1 run as (avorit~e s ·1n , 1 rns th" f;:;,·orilr. son from Florirl2, 2n 1 1c d 1:ept· Kennedy and Johnson fron r11nnin z'. 22ains I eac 1 oth\r in Florina, \·~ 1 . ie-1 r12r'e Kcnnr,dy -,rery unhappy vi.th ne . Anrl it ' s a whole story unto it:se f , wh:-t hr- !we'. rJonc c:-nr: hov we n ·::::otiatu . nut anyway, at t 1.Jt conv~jrlion i n Los Anscles Kennelly--I h2< t ol rl Kennr. y I was [; nin:_; to rele2se the 1cle::;atr·s aft ~ r tll" first ailo . Anr 1 that. I 'et lil·e he woulrl :..;e pro ab :' more of t1110 r ele:_;atcs than would Johnson. /C An<l one of , on<~ of l~ ennc°b(dy ' s principa del.e:'.,c:tcs, d1o "'a s rny ·~ele~<te, was 1.i ~ 1 <icln i nistrat i ve e.ssisXtc.mt , Grc:nt Stocu'ale, - 4- And 'lC we r e all--F.s cow rcssr;ien we were very close tof.ether , our offices were ri::)1t nr. :~l ·1oor , so uc ' d ecome very close persona lly. I w<:s 1ds fricnrl , an:! he ·1as r.1y frienri .