CERN_125x193:Mise en page 1 18/09/12 17:17 Page 1 CERN Courier November 2016 Interview: Kip Thorne www.goodfellow.com Secrets of discovery Metals Kip Thorne is the visionary theorist who and materials Caltech predicted the observation of gravitational waves for research from colliding black holes, as detected recently by LIGO. Paola Catapano spoke with him in Goodfellow Cambridge Limited ON-LINE CATALOGUE Ermine Business Park September as he received the 2016 Tomalla Huntingdon PE29 6WR UK Prize at the University of Geneva. Tel: 0800 731 4653 or +44 1480 424 800 Fax: 0800 328 7689 or +44 1480 424 900 [email protected] Did you expect that gravitational waves would be discovered during your lifetime? Yes, and I thought it quite likely it would come from two collid- ing black holes of just the sort that we did see. I wrote a popular 70 000 PRODUCTS SMALL QUANTITIES FAST DELIVERY CUSTOM MADE ITEMS book called Black Holes and Time Warps: Einstein’s Outrageous Theoretical physicist Kip Thorne is emeritus professor at Caltech. Legacy, published in 1994, and I wrote a prologue to this book dur- ing my honeymoon in Chile in 1984. In that prologue, I described How will the new tool of “multi-messenger astronomy” the observation of two black holes, both weighing 25 solar masses, impact on our understanding of the universe? spiralling together and merging and producing three solar masses Concerning the colliding black hole that we’ve seen so far, astron- of energy and gravitational waves, and that’s very close to what omers who rely on electromagnetic signals have not seen anything we’ve seen. So I was already in the 1980s targeting black holes as coming from them. It’s conceivable that in the future something COMSOL MULTIPHYSICS ® the most likely kind of source; for me this was not a surprise, it was may be seen because disturbances caused when two black holes a great satisfaction that everything came out the way I thought it collide and merge can lead to X-ray or perhaps optical emissions. APPLICATION BUILDER probably would. We also expect to see many other sources of gravitational waves. Neutron stars orbiting each other are expected to collide and Can you summarise how an instrument such as LIGO could merge, which is thought to be a source of gamma-ray bursts that observe such a weak and rare phenomenon? have already been seen. We will see black holes tear apart and MULTIPHYSICS The primary inventor of this kind of gravitational-wave detector is destroy a companion neutron star, again producing a very strong APPLICATION Ray Weiss at MIT. He not only conceived the idea, in parallel with electromagnetic emission as well as neutrino emission. So the several other people, but he, unlike anybody else, identifi ed all of co-ordinated gravitational and electromagnetic observation and FOR EVERYONE the major sources of noise that would have to be dealt with in the neutrino observations will be very powerful. With all of these initial detector and he invented ways to deal with each of those. He working together in “multi-messenger” astronomy, there’s a great estimated how much noise would remain after the experiment did richness of information. That really is the future of a large portion The evolution of computational tools for what he proposed to limit each noise source, and concluded that of this fi eld. But part of this fi eld will be things like black holes, numerical simulation of physics-based the sensitivity that could be reached would be good enough. There where we see only gravitational waves. systems has reached a major milestone. was a real possibility of seeing the waves that I as a theorist and Custom applications are now being developed colleagues were predicting. Weiss wrote a paper in 1972 describing Do gravitational waves give us a bearing on gravitons? by simulation specialists using the Application all of this and it is one of the most powerful papers I’ve ever read, Although we are quite sure gravitational waves are carried by Builder in COMSOL Multiphysics®. perhaps the most powerful experiment-related paper. Before I read gravitons, there is no chance to see individual gravitons based on With a local installation of COMSOL Server™, applications can be it, I had heard about his idea and concluded it was very unlikely to the known laws of physics. Just as we do not see individual photons deployed within an entire organization and accessed worldwide. succeed because the required sensitivities were so great. I didn’t in a radio wave because there are so many photons working together have time to really study it in depth, but it turned out I was wrong. I to produce the radio wave, there are even more gravitons working Make your organization truly benefit from the power of analysis. was sceptical until I had discussions with Weiss and others in Mos- together to produce gravitational waves. In technical terms, the comsol.com/application-builder cow. I then became convinced, and decided that I should devote mean occupation number of the gravitational-wave fi eld that is seen most of the rest of my career to helping them succeed in the detec- is absolutely enormous, close to 1040. With so many gravitons there ▲ © Copyright 2016 COMSOL. COMSOL, COMSOL Multiphysics, Capture the Concept, COMSOL Desktop, COMSOL Server, LiveLink, and Simulation for Everyone are either registered trademarks or trademarks of COMSOL AB. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners, and COMSOL AB and its subsidiaries and products are not affiliated with, endorsed by, sponsored by, or supported by those trademark owners. For a list of such trademark owners, see www.comsol.com/trademarks tion of gravitational waves. is no hope, unfortunately, to see individual gravitons. 33 CERNCOURIER WWW. V OLUME 5 6 N UMBER 9 N OMBERV E 2 0 1 6 M AY 2 0 1 6 Cryogenic WafPro#1-CERN 9/21/13 3:06 PM Page 1 CERN Courier November 2016 CERN Courier November 2016 Interview: Kip Thorne Faces & Places Will we ever reconcile gravity with the three other forces? Cryogenic Wafer I am quite sure gravity will be reconciled with the other three forces. I think it is quite likely this will be done through some ver- Probe Stations sion of string theory or M theory, which many theorists are now A PPOINTMENTS working on. When it does happen, the resulting laws of quantum gravity will allow us to address questions related to the nature of Paolo Giubellino to lead FAIR and GSI the birth of the universe. It would also tell us whether or not it is possible to build time machines to go backward in time, what is Italian physicist Paolo Giubellino, who ALICE spokesperson Paolo Giubellino will the nature of the interior of a black hole, and address many other is currently spokesperson for the ALICE be the fi rst joint scientifi c managing-director interesting questions. This is a tremendously important effort, by experiment at the LHC, has been appointed of FAIR and GSI. far the most important research direction in theoretical physics the fi rst joint scientifi c managing-director Otto/GSI Gaby today and recent decades. There’s no way I could contribute very and spokesperson of the directorate of the since 1985 and has served as research Facility for Antiproton and Ion Research director since 2006. Applications include nano science, materials and much there. in Europe GmbH (FAIR GmbH) and GSI “With the extensive international spintronics Regarding future large-scale research infrastructures, such Helmholtzzentrum für Schwerionenforschung experience Paolo Giubellino gained 3.2 K - 675 K; high vacuum or UHV GmbH in Darmstadt, Germany. Giubellino at CERN in Switzerland, he has ideal as those proposed within CERN’s Future Circular Collider pro- Up to 8 probes, DC to 67 GHz, plus fiber optics will take up his new position on 1 January, prerequisites to tackle the assignment in gramme, what are the lessons to be learnt from LIGO? Zoom optics with camera and monitor succeeding Boris Sharkov of FAIR and Darmstadt,” says Otmar Wiestler, president Maybe the best thing to learn is having superb management of large Karlheinz Langanke of GSI. of Germany’s Helmholtz Association. Cooling options: liquid helium, liquid nitrogen or Giubellino has participated in many “Being able to attract people like Paolo cryogen free physics budgets, which is essential to make the project succeed. We’ve had excellent management, particularly with Barry Barish, heavy-ion experiments at CERN and has Giubellino to FAIR shows the worldwide Horizontal, vertical or vector magnetic field options who transformed LIGO and took over as director when we were been ALICE spokesperson since 2011. appeal of Helmholtz research. We have are available He has worked at the Torino section of the chosen the right path with our strategy to Contact us today: just about ready to begin construction (Robbie Waught, who had Italian National Institute for Nuclear Physics pursue a more international course.” [email protected] helped us write a proposal to get the funding from the NSF and www.janis.com/ProbeStations.aspx Congress, also got two research teams at Caltech and MIT to work www.facebook.com /JanisResearch together in an effective manner). Barry created the modern LIGO TRIUMF appoints new science associate director and he is an absolutely fantastic project director. Having him lead us through that transition into the modern LIGO was absolutely essential to our success, plus a very good experiment idea and a Jens Dilling has been appointed TRIUMF’s Jens Dilling took up the ALD position on new associate laboratory director (ALD) TRIUMF 1 September.