Regional Oral History Office University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California Charles Duff Campbell, Leon Oakley, John Gill, Bob Schulz and Linda Jensen, Pat Yankee, William Carter, Carl Lunsford, Richard Hadlock TURK MURPHY, EARTHQUAKE MCGOON’S, AND THE NEW ORLEANS REVIVAL Interviews conducted by Caroline Crawford in 2007-2009 Copyright © 2011 by The Regents of the University of California Since 1954 the Regional Oral History Office has been interviewing leading participants in or well-placed witnesses to major events in the development of Northern California, the West, and the nation. Oral History is a method of collecting historical information through tape-recorded interviews between a narrator with firsthand knowledge of historically significant events and a well-informed interviewer, with the goal of preserving substantive additions to the historical record. The tape recording is transcribed, lightly edited for continuity and clarity, and reviewed by the interviewee. The corrected manuscript is bound with photographs and illustrative materials and placed in The Bancroft Library at the University of California, Berkeley, and in other research collections for scholarly use. Because it is primary material, oral history is not intended to present the final, verified, or complete narrative of events. It is a spoken account, offered by the interviewee in response to questioning, and as such it is reflective, partisan, deeply involved, and irreplaceable. ********************************* All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between The Regents of the University of California and Charles Duff Campbell, dated December 7, 2007 ; Leon Oakley, dated October 26, 2007; John Gill, dated February 29, 2008 ; Bob Schulz, dated February 5, 2009; Linda Jensen, dated March 4, 2009; Pat Yankee, dated May 12, 2008; William Carter, dated April 6, 2010; Carl Lunsford, dated February 23, 2010; Richard Hadlock, dated April 10, 2010.The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. Excerpts up to 1000 words from this interview may be quoted for publication without seeking permission as long as the use is non-commercial and properly cited. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to The Bancroft Library, Head of Public Services, Mail Code 6000, University of California, Berkeley, 94720-6000, and should follow instructions available online at http://bancroft.berkeley.edu/ROHO/collections/cite.html It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Charles Duff Campbell, Leon Oakley, John Gill, Bob Schulz and Linda Jensen, Pat Yankee, Bill Carter, Carl Lunsford, Richard Hadlock, “TURK MURPHY, EARTHQUAKE MCGOON’S, AND THE NEW ORLEANS REVIVAL” conducted by Caroline Crawford 2007-2009, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 2011. Turk Murphy (Courtesy of Charles Campbell) TURK MURPHY, EARTHQUAKE MCGOON’S, AND THE NEW ORLEANS REVIVAL INTERVIEW HISTORY by Caroline Crawford CHARLES DUFF CAMPBELL Interview #1: October 10, 2007 [Audio File 1] 1 Meeting Turk Murphy and Lu Watters, Annie Street, 1941—A family of gold miners: living in Northern Siberia and Shanghai, 1917 to 1932—Los Angeles and the jazz scene in the 1930s and 1940s—David Stuart and the Jazz Man Record Shop—Nat King Cole’s gig on La Cienega in the late 1930s —Central Avenue: T-Bone Walker, Jimmie Lunceford, Ella Fitzgerald—Interviewing Jelly Roll Morton about New Orleans —The L.A. Clubs: T-Bone Walker at the Little Harlem in Watts—Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington and Jimmie Lunceford at the Palomar on Vermont—Driving Art Tatum in the 1940s: Jackie Robinson’s last game with UCLA —Working for General Petroleum and serving in the Coast Guard—Moving to San Francisco in 1947 to open the Louvre Art Store — Opening the Charles Campbell Gallery on Chestnut Street, 1971, with artists Nathan Oliveira, Robert Harvey, Jim Johnson—The music scene in San Francisco: Hangover Club on Bush, Washington Square Bar & Grill with Norma Teagarden and Burt Bales, Pete’s Place—Setting up the Italian Village for Turk Murphy in 1952-1954. [Audio File 2] 18 Meeting Turk Murphy and Paul Lingle—Becoming San Francisco neighbors with Murphy and his wives—The Italian Village Band: Bob Helm, clarinet; Wally Rose, piano; Dick Lammi, banjo; Bob Short, tuba; Murphy, trombone—Thoughts about “moldy figs,” “ickies” and dancing—A fire at Italian Village and a move to the Tin Angel, 1955—Hambone Kelly’s in Emeryville: the possibility of managing the Watters band in 1946—Earthquake McGoon’s : 99 Broadway, 1960-1962; 630 Clay Street, 1962-1978; 128 Embarcadero; Pier 39—Helping with the gig at the Fairmont Hotel, 1984-1987—Eddie Condon, Chicago jazz, and “Duff Campbell’s Revenge”—The Campbell Gallery, Nathan Oliveira and Bob Harvey and Paul Thiebaud—John Gill and Woody Allen. LEON OAKLEY Interview #1: October 24, 2007 [Audio File 1] 37 Early years in Binghamton, New York—A musical family; exposure to music— Music in the schools—Collecting recordings; Louis Armstrong, Jelly Roll Morton, Lu Watters, Turk Murphy—The Armstrong Hot Seven Band— Traditional jazz vs. Dixieland: Importance of ensemble playing—Forming the Penn-Can Jazz Band—King Oliver’s Creole Jazz Band: Louis Armstrong and two trumpets—The big bands and the New Orleans revival, 1930s-1940s— Remembering Honore Dutre and Johnny Dodds—Turk Murphy’s unique sound and band arrangements—Lu Watters’ Yerba Buena Jazz Band, Bob Scobey and Dick Lammi—Analyzing “Cornet Chop Suey”—Bob Helm’s energies, Jack Crook and Phil Howe—Singing with Bob Helm in the band—Eddie Condon, George Avakian of Columbia Records and “Duff Campbell’s Revenge”—Turk Murphy and the Lu Watters Band; Ma Watters’ boarding house—Hambone Kelly’s in El Cerrito—Ken Burns on Turk Murphy. [Audio File 2] 55 “Terrible Turk” and making music with two trumpets—Playing trumpet in the band: 1968-1979—Earthquake McGoon’s, partnership with Pete Clute and running the club—Touring and recording on the road—Hard times with the band —Chuck Huggins and See’s Candies sponsorship—Turk and Papa Mutt Carey, Kid Ory, Zutty Singleton, Doc Souchon, and support of black New Orleans musicians—Arranging “Mack the Knife” for Louis Armstrong—The weakening of the musicians union—Earthquake McGoon’s at 630 Clay Street: 1962-1978— Playing the festivals: Live from Heidelberg—Jazz writers: Phil Elwood, Ralph Gleason and Richard Hadlock—The Turk Murphy legacy: keeping the torch burning. JOHN GILL Interview #1: February 29, 2008 [Audio File 1] 75 Early musical memories: Roy Rogers, Gene Autry—Collecting recordings of Elvis Presley, Johnny Cash, Hank Williams, Jerry Lee Lewis—Introduction to the Beatles—Playing drums and forming a school band, 1960s—Rudi Blesh’s Shining Trumpets—Remembering Lu Watters, Turk Murphy, Bob Helm, Leon Oakley—Hearing Turk Murphy live at Lincoln Center, 1971—New York City banjo clubs: Your Father’s Mustache, Red Garter, Red Onion—Learning to play traditional jazz: studying Kid Ory, Jelly Roll Morton, Sidney Bechet, Buddy Bolden, Freddy Keppard—The Creole Band, Larry Gushee, and documenting early jazz performance—Joining the Turk Murphy Band, 1977: Bob Helm, Bill Carroll, Pete Clute—Turk as arranger and composer and bandleader: a “stern taskmaster”—Traditional jazz and race issues—Working at Preservation Hall in New Orleans, 1990—Woody Allen and thoughts about the decline of traditional jazz—Turk Murphy and the economics of the jazz band—More about Bob Helm. [Audio File 2] 92 Remembering various Earthquake McGoon’s—Trouble between Turk Murphy and Pete Clute, and band politics—Playing at the Fairmont Hotel—Leaving the band, 1986—Thoughts about jazz critics—A memorable Australian tour—Turk Murphy and historical preservation: the library at Stanford University—Personal jazz associations: Turk Murphy and Kid Ory, Louis Armstrong, Bunk Johnson. BOB SCHULZ AND LINDA JENSEN Interview #1: January 15, 2009 [Audio File 1] 106 Growing up in Wisconsin and exposure to jazz—Coming to Fort Lewis, Washington, and playing in the Thirty-Second Division Army Band—Working as a school music teacher —Playing Dixieland with the Riverboat Ramblers in Wisconsin and St. Louis—Joining Turk Murphy’s band, 1979—Marrying Linda Jensen—Impressions of Turk Murphy—Wynton Marsalis, African Americans and white musicians in jazz—Band chemistry: Bob Helm, John Gill, Peter Clute, Bill Carroll—Earthquake McGoon’s and the venues: Pier 39, 1982—String bass and guitar vs. tuba and banjo: a “looser feel”—Meeting Linda Jensen and her “follow- me-daddy shoes”—Jimmy Stanislaus, playing at Superbowls, and jazz sponsors— David Packard tries to save Clay Street—Ray Skjelbred replaces Peter Clute— The instruments: not a big band sound—Turk’s band arrangements—Touring with a more relaxed band. [Audio File 2] 132 Turk Murphy as bandleader: “his way or the highway”—Carnegie Hall—Turk Murphy’s funeral and taking over the band—Critics and Herb Caen—Singing with the band—Changing musical styles—Back to Bob Scobey —Trad jazz. festivals. PAT YANKEE Interview #1: May 12, 2008 [Audio File 1] 148 Early years in show business: dancing in New York in the 1940s —Meeting Turk Murphy, Easy Street, Mary Dupont and marriages—Italian Village and Goman’s Gay Nineties—“Smitten” with Turk Murphy, touring and hard times— Remembering the bands: Bob Helm, Carl Lunsford, Pete Clute, Jack Carroll, Bob Short, Thad Vandon,