00194545 E3/380 (C.rtiflliod Oa!el!l.!<I d. ce.1fficatioO): ll5'l~~ lJ~gt;m'l9W.@i ···Qs.···.I····.2..~········.L{'.,-,... '"v''' of Cambodia IllIIll!lli!ll Nation Religion King 'dossi'3r: ....... ~r.,tN.... !~.If'1: ............... tl~M§fteru OJ "~t:~~~l~g'n~ DOCUMENT RECEiVEDIDOCUMENT RECU Extraordinary Chambers in the '"til' 'W" ![l. (O~t8 of rec,~!ptlDate de reception): Courts of Cambodia .......... .3.0..... J...... C?s:: .... .I.......... 1.S?k:"'S..... tih~ (Tim,;iJH'!~~1'I"~}:" ...... /..~..• ;:-.. .s:I. ................ ,...... m1~reess~~'~fit;S~<S"S~@i Hl~g~m[!~Mhu)\tllliC_ File Officar/L'agent charge Office of the Co-Investigating Judges til.! dO$~ie(: ...........Sh.f::I:N .... r:yw.f!':, ........... Bureau des Co-juges d'instruction o 't '0 D1 "im@i5m~5~m$~$55!"W !!5rul6~e;~~~~ ~g.u:"'li!J Criminal Case File !Dossier penal Written Record ofInterview of Wfl!No: 002/14-08-2006 Charged Person .. Proces-verbal d'interrogatoire 6re~6~<S~./InvestigationJInstruetion Wfl!No: OOll18-07-2007-ECCC-OCIJ The twenty-seventh of March, two thousand and eight, at 9:10 a.m. We, You Bunleng ttl qB1'U~ and Marcel Lemonde, Co-Investigating Judges of the Extraordinary Chambers, with Mr. Ham Hel my ttiirn and Mr. Ly Chantola mt1§~M as Greffiers Noting the Law on the establishment of the Extraordinary Chambers, dated 27 October 2004 Noting Rule 58 of the Internal Rules of the Extraordinary Chambers With Ouch Channora qIJ m~ru;Jli and Tanheang Davannm~Unl:1 r:n~Q:P, sworn interpreters of the Extraordinary Chambers The Charged Person identified below has appeared before us: Kaing Guek-Eav m~ u!jnii11 alias Duch qtJ, male, born on 17 November 1942 Charged with Crimes against humanity and Grave Breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, offences defmed and punishable under Articles 5, 6, 29 (New) and 39 (New) of the Law on the establishment of the Extraordinary Chambers, dated 27 October 2004. lI~tl~~tl!:lhlmm~~~ru1fl11R~m !I1g~m~\iJftlll1 ~lmiilrn3~ hl)11ii IlllllliJI 9q,{l ~1\1l t~~ 1i1~11J ttlllt5ni!jtmrn3&1l~ ~1fJ!llrn3 HlMI!!(Oj~rn I!WGg .. ~ ~!ftfI\rn3 Hl<1<1(Ojl!Jrn I!J~Gg"~9 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia, National Road 4, Choam Chao, Dangkoa Phnom Penh Mail Po Box 71. Phnom Penh Tel:+855(0)23 218914 Fax: +855(0) 23218941. Chambrcs cxtraordinaires au sein des tribunaux cambodgiens, Route nationale 4, Choam Chao, Dangkoa, Phnom Penh Boite postale 71. Phnom Penh. Tel: +855(0)23 218914 Fax: +855(0) 23 218941. 00194546 A% Dr;'@1.,.1 ~ II: :" E3/380 The original of this record is written in the Khmer language. The Co-Prosecutors of the Extraordinary Chambers, l'vIr. Robert Petit and Mrs. Chea Leang t:h rur~ were duly notified of this interview by Notification Letter dated 13 March 2008: • l'vIrs. Chea Leang t:h rur~ is represented by l'vIr. Pich Sambath tblUi Wt!J~, Senior Assistant Co-Prosecutor • Mr. Robert Petit is represented by l'vIr. Alex Bates, Senior Assistant Co-Prosecutor. Kar Savuth ff1~ M{~ and Francois Raux, Co-Lawyers for the Charged Person, who were duly informed of this interview by summons dated 13 March 2008, and have been able to examine the case tile since that time, are both present. Interview Questions-Answers: The Charged Person: Here are my comments on the circumstances of my meeting with the journalists Nic Dunlop and Nate Thayer and on the book "the Lost Executioner". Statement by the Co-Investigating Judges: This note shall be placed on the case file as an annex to the present written record. Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: Could you give us further explanations concerning the structure and functioning of Prey Sar 'L""'? What area did it cover? When was it established, why and by whom? Could you also tell us how many people were living in Prey Siir iL""'? Answer by the Charged Person: Prey Siir 'L"W followed on from the Division 703 security centre. The structure existed before my arrival at S-21 "'~,: it was established when the Secretary of Division 703 Noeu Phiin l2itlE alias Sok "13 was swept away Subsequently, Son Sen "1""" asked me to re-educate "liberal" combatants i.e. undisciplined, and I told Nun Huy (Sre) ~Etijru (IUJ) to undertake that task. Son Sen "1''',rE tried to use these combatants in the tank unit once their re-education was completed but it failed. Therefore, Prey Sar 'Lor" remained essentially the rice production centre for S-21 "'~,. Regarding the number of persons, I cannot be very precise but there were several hundred people at Prey Sar'L""" !I~O~~L!!:lrtJ1!!\!Iq~~rullmn~m Il1E~I1i~W~I2i ~fmiilru3~ hlll1ii 1U1!!lm 3qp ~I!r L~ti ~1~fD Lllmlhl1jL~lrnB&lW 2 ~ltJ~lrnB +G&&(O)l!Jm l£J~Gg~~ ~IMlrnB +Gn(O)l!Jm I!J~Gg~~9 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia, National Road 4, Chaam Chao, Dangkoa Phnom Penh Mail Po Box 71. Phnom Penh Tel:+855(0)23 218914 Fax: +855(0) 23218941. Charnbres extraordinaires au sein des tribunaux cambodgiens, Route nationale 4, Choam Chao, Dangkoa, Phnom Penh Rnitp. nn"tl'll~ 71 Phllnm P~nh Tr+ +R'l'l(m?i 71 RQ14 Fm{' +R'l'l(m?i ")11;:041 00194547 -bADvAu cD 6J E3/380 Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: It appears that at least at one time, Prey Sar \"'" was composed of five workers units (units 11 to IS). Could you confirm this organisation and explain what each of these units corresponded to? Answer by the Charged Person: I am not in a position to give you many details since it was Huy ITjru who was in charge of the organisation. Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: You have confirmed (Interview OCIJ DUCH, 23/08/2007, ERN 00147926-001477935 (fr.), p.5) that you were in charge of general policy at Prey Sar iL"'" Did you ever visit Prey Sar 'LON as such? If so, how many times? Answer by the Charged Person: I remember visiting the place four times. I went there once to give an education session, once with Hor til to meet the 30 "liberal" combatants who were to be sent to the tank unit, once to visit Huy tii"' in his house and another time where I met Huy tii'" who was cultivating sweet potatoes. There might have been other visits . but I do not remember them. Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: What did you see in Prey Sar 'L"''' concerning living and working conditions? Answer by the Charged Person: Actually, I did not see anything: I just met the persons cited above. Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: It seems surprising that you did not see anything. Could you tell us what the place looked like, what were the geographical limits of the Prey Sar iLo", Centre, how many buildings existed, etc. Answer by the Charged Person: !-Iuy ITj"' was in charge of all that. The superior (Son Sen "1""") even asked him to participate in meetings on production and security without me. Regarding the area of Prey Sar iL""', I forget. I know the General Staff had a map identifying the plots allocated to each unit, that Prey Silr i1"'" extended from Bakou (f1~ village to Prey Silr lj,n'" prison (created under the Sangkum and where I had been detained myselt), that the production was sufficient to feed S-21 "'''', and that in 1978, the surplus was even distributed to the Central Committee: Again, I went only to the Prey Sar i1"'" "headquarters", that is where Huy ITjttr'S house was located, at the end of a canal. It was a new village. I never saw the buildings where the personnel slept. lt~tl~~U!:1W1l!mq~~ru1mln~m II1E9m~~Ii!1 wm~mJ3~ hl\llii Iml!Icri3qii ul\ll L~~ ~1"Q) UlIfiirirtjjjilrnmllS 3 111ii~lrn3 +~I;1I;1(o)l!Jm I!Js~g~s ~IMlillB +~I;1I;1(O)l!Jm I!Js~g~99 Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia, National Road 4, Chaam Chao, Dangkoa Phnom Penh Mail Po Box 71, Phnom Penh Tel:+855(0)23 218914 Fax: +855(0) 23 218941. Chambres extraordinaires au sein des tribunaux cambodgiens, Route nationale 4, Choam Chao, Dangkoa, Phnom Penh Un:l". ",",,,,,,,1,,. "11 Ph .... ,,'"" P",,,h T ... l· .j..!1"':;(()\')"l ') 1 ~(l1 A J::" ..... ..I..Q':;;':;;(()\ ,)'l ')1 !(OA 1 00194548 Ff<!tt;?v ~ tJ E3/380 Question by the Co-Investigating Judges: You explained that as S-21 Wl!l8· chairman, you were the supreme commander for Prey Sar 'Low, as head of S21. You also indicated that the persons who worked at Prey Sar 'Low could not move about freely or leave when they wanted. It appears obvious that you would have been held responsible if some person had suddenly decided to escape. Therefore, this involved close surveillance that you could not not have ignored. What do you have to say? Answer by the Charged Person: Had members of the personnel run away, the first to be held responsible would have been Huy til'" who would have reported to Hor tii. I do not contest that I could have had problems but Huy til'" would have been the one to be arrested. It is indeed what happened when the person responsible for Huy til'"'s telephone escaped: Huy til'" was arrested upon Nuon Chea ~,m's order. To deal with the problem of risks of escape one had to follow the political line: education, surveillance, purge, arrest and sending to S-21 MillS.