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Oral History Interview with Liliana Porter, 2012 June 27-28

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Oral History Interview with Liliana Porter, 2012 June 27-28 Oral history interview with Liliana Porter, 2012 June 27-28 Contact Information Reference Department Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution Washington. D.C. 20560 www.aaa.si.edu/askus Transcript Preface The following oral history transcript is the result of a recorded interview with Liliana Porter on June 27-28, 2012. The interview took place in Rhinebeck, NY, and was conducted by Judith Olch Richards for the Archives of American Art, Smithsonian Institution. Liliana Porter reviewed the transcript in 2019. Her corrections and emendations appear below in brackets with initials. This transcript has been lightly edited for readability by the Archives of American Art. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. Interview JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: This is Judith Richards interviewing Liliana Porter in Rhinebeck, NY, at her home and studio in Rhinebeck, NY, on June 27, 2012, for the Archives of American Art Smithsonian Institution, disc one. So, Liliana, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you very much. Let's start with your family background, if you don't mind, and both sides of your family, way before you were born or as far back as you want to go, and then come to exactly when and where you were born. LILIANA PORTER: Very well. Well, let's see. From my grandparents, from the side of my mother, they were Romanian, and they came to Argentina—I don't know which year. But they were immigrants from Temisoara, Romania to Argentina. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Do—can you tell me their names? LILIANA PORTER: Yes. I actually never met my grandfather. Was Traian Galetar— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Could you spell that? LILIANA PORTER: Traian I guess is T-R-A-I-A-N, and Galetar is G-A-L-E-T-A-R. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: And do you know where in Romania? LILIANA PORTER: Mmm, I don't know. I think it was—no, I'm not sure. [From Temisoara –LP] And so I met my— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––and that's your grand— LILIANA PORTER: —grandmother, my Romanian grandmother, her name was Persida, P-e-r-s-i-d-a. [Persida Migáhel – LP] They were, I guess, Greek Orthodox. So they came to Buenos Aires— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––they were both Greek Orthodox, living in Romania? LILIANA PORTER: I think—Yes, I think they came from a family of Greek, or their religion was Greek Orthodox. I know from the [00:02:00] part of my father, they were Russian Jewish, so when they got married [laughs] it was some kind of controversy there. But— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––so they went straight from Romania to Buenos Aires? LILIANA PORTER: To Buenos Aires. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: And do you have any idea when it was? LILIANA PORTER: Oh— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––was it before World War I? LILIANA PORTER: I should look and then let you know and give you exactly the dates. So they had—well, maybe we concentrate first on my mother's side, what—but it's nice to say first, the two sides first, and then I'll go one by one. For my father, they came from Ukraine, and my grandfather was Porter, no, was the last name, I guess some Englishman went to Russia a long time ago, and my grandmother was Lifchitz. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: What's— LILIANA PORTER: ––he was Mauricio Porter. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––Mauricio? LILIANA PORTER: Yes, Mauricio Porter, and my grandmother, Berta, but without the H. B-e-r-t-a Lifchitz. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: L-i-p-s-c-h— LILIANA PORTER: ––Yes, right. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: —i-t-z? LILIANA PORTER: No, with— Lifchitz. I think with an f-s. [It is Lifchitz – LP] JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Oh, L-I— LILIANA PORTER: —T. Lifchitz. I will check to make sure we have it correct. It is Lifchitz. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: So her maiden name was Lifchitz. LILIANA PORTER: Yes, and they came in 1909 to Buenos Aires—she was very young; she was 14 years old. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Did they come married? LILIANA PORTER: No, they met in Buenos Aires. [He came in 1910 – LP] JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––but your mother's parents were married before they came from Romania? LILIANA PORTER: I have—you know, I don't know that. I—but I know they had eight [00:04:00] daughters and sons, my—from—my mother had eight brothers and sisters, and the story is incredible, because my mother was the youngest, and every year, one brother or one sister would die from different causes. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: You mean when they were children? LILIANA PORTER: Children and adolescents, but she was the youngest. So every year, somebody would die, and then at the end, when the father and the mother and one daughter were still alive, the house, the house caught fire, and the father and the last sister died in the fire. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: This is in Buenos Aires? LILIANA PORTER: Yes, and my mother was—this all happened before my mother was 15 years old. So at that time, when somebody dies, the custom was that you dressed in black for a whole year, so all her adolescence, all her life until she was 15, she was dressed in black. And it was incredible—it's incredible to believe that it happened, all this, to one family. But—and then she was left with her mother, and she was going to this liceo, a school for girls, and they had in the school a magazine, a literary magazine. And my father was going to the Nacional Buenos Aires [Colegio Nacional de Buenos Aires]. And they exchanged, it seems, magazines, you know, the publications that they did. So they met that way, first by writing letters and sending poems to each other, and then they [00:06:00] met when they were very young, like 17 or 16, and they married when they were 20. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Let me ask you, going back to your mother's grandparents. Do you know why they came to Buenos Aires? Why they left Romania and then why they chose Buenos Aires? And what profession he had? LILIANA PORTER: Yes, Yes. They had like a general store in the place was near the port, called Dock Sud. So they sold—let's say they could sell food, but also there was a little—some tables where people could have drinks or coffee, I don't know. It was like a very neighborhood basic general store. And because my mother told me that in Romania they were farmers and—Yes, I think they were like farmers. So—and my mother was just amazing with all that background, was a very, very positive person. And I think what she did was to—first, she really thought, Well, next, I am going to die. You know, she is going to die, if everyone dies. And I think when— we all are going to die—but when you are really certain—which very few people are; they think death happens to somebody else—I think you become wiser and more generous. There is a moment that you are more wise. There is something that is—it could be that you are crazy—but I think in her case, she became, first, very aware and very appreciative of being alive, [00:08:00] but at the same time, very positive. So my childhood was—I perceived it as a very happy one. You know, with a garden, with— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––did you know all four grandparents? LILIANA PORTER: No, well, the father— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––of course you didn't know your grandfather–– LILIANA PORTER: —I didn't, but the grandparents, my grandparents, the Russians—because actually, what I wanted to say is that my grandmother, the Romanian grandmother, died when I was five. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Persida. LILIANA PORTER: Persida. And you know, I look at my hands, and I remember—I think I have her hands, which is incredible because I was five when she died—when she died, I'm sorry. But what is amazing is that—[inaudible] what I was going to say—that—yes, that my mother was very positive, but what I was going to say was that she died when I was five, so all my family is really my father's family because nobody else was left from my mother's side. So I really grew up with a Jewish family. So, you know, it's the kind of mentality, things [Jewish as a culture; the way to eat, mentality, the humor. They really were not religious. – LP]. JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Do they speak Russian? LILIANA PORTER: They spoke mainly Yiddish, but I—they—I didn't learn, or my father also didn't learn. I guess they spoke Yiddish when they didn't want us to understand. [Laughs.] But they didn't speak Russian among themselves, but she would sing some songs to me when I was little in Russian. So my grandfather, Mauricio, had a printing place, publisher, printing shop. [00:10:00] JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: Not just the printing, but the publishing? LILIANA PORTER: The publishing. And so in his place, Porter Hermanos, Porter Brothers, they published mainly young poets, and they also published for a while the magazine Martín Fierro, who was, where Borges and all that generation published— JUDITH OLCH RICHARDS: ––did he, did he go to university? Your grandfather? LILIANA PORTER: I never asked him.
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