House Education

House Education Committee 2/24/21, 10:00 a.m., Room G-50, Irvis Office Building By Emily Mistishen, Legislative Services

Committee(s): House Education Committee Meeting type: Public hearing Subject: COVID-19's impacts on higher education

Bills discussed: legislation Keyword(s): higher education, COVID-19, enrollment, student debt, remote learning Testimony: Dr. Mark Erickson, vice chair, Pennsylvania Commission for Community Colleges, president, Northampton Community College Dr. Michael Driscoll, president, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Dr. Brenda Allen, president, Lincoln University JoAnne Epps, executive vice president and provost, Temple University Thomas Foley, president, Association of Independent Colleges and Universities of Pennsylvania Members Present: Chairman Curt Sonney (R-Erie), Minority Chairman (D-Mercer), and Representatives (R-Bucks), (D-Montgomery), (D-Philadelphia), (D-Montgomery), Rosemary Brown (R-Monroe), Valerie Gaydos (R-Allegheny), Timothy Twardzik (R- Schuylkill), Mark Gillen (R-Berks), Barbara Gleim (R-Cumberland), (R-Lancaster), (R-Beaver), Milou Mackenzie (R-Lehigh), Carol Hill-Evans (D-York), (D-Delaware), (R-Bucks), (D-Allegheny), Andrew Lewis (R-Dauphin), and (R-Bedford)

The committee held a hearing on the impacts of COVID-19 on Pennsylvania's institutions of higher education.

Chairman Sonney opened by describing the mission of the hearing and asserting higher education institutions had to work tirelessly to adapt to COVID-19. The long-term effects are not yet known, he said, but the legislature should hear directly from institutions in order to mitigate long-lasting effects.

Minority Chairman Longietti commented Pennsylvania has a rich system of higher education and each institution plays a significant role. He expressed the importance of discussing the effects of COVID-19 on providing education. Dr. Mark Erickson, vice chair, Pennsylvania Commission for Community Colleges, president, Northampton Community College (NCC), described NCC and thanked the committee members for their interest in the higher education community. He acknowledged these are "unique and challenge times" but affirmed community colleges provide flexibility, agility, affordability and responsiveness. The college responded quickly to COVID-19 and will be a part of Pennsylvania's success after COVID-19, he opined. He concluded by listing the important benefits, programs and partnerships resulting from community colleges.

Dr. Michael Driscoll, president, Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), stated the cost of the pandemic is "immense," resulting in loss of revenue, increased expenses, stress and isolation, and lost opportunities. Additionally, staff and faculty have had to adapt and be creative in the "most challenging circumstances we have seen in our careers and our lifetime." Driscoll commented on increased need for mental health services, noting students have face "exceptional stress, isolation, and loss." Disadvantaged students are the most impacted, he remarked, and many do not have broadband access, adequate finances, or a safe place to live. However, students have continued to show strong academic results, he added. Driscoll urged continued support for broadband access; COVID-19 testing and vaccine availability; deadline, regulation and operation flexibility; and additional recovery funds.

Brenda Allen, president, Lincoln University, stated Lincoln University's primary concerns have been to protect the health and safety of students and maintain the continuity of education. She voiced her gratitude for maintaining appropriations, testing support, and Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act funds, but noted students are "persevering...not thriving." She stressed the importance of campus activities and said despite their efforts to manage health and safety on campus, many families have experienced severe economic impacts or are cautious about the disparate impact of the pandemic on communities of color, so many students have chosen remote learning for the rest of the year. Allen opined this is not sustainable and the lack of social capital has major impacts.

Allen stated that while things seem to be getting better, universities will not reach normalcy anytime soon. Some students are taking gap years, she noted, pointing to a 35 percent decrease in applications. Additionally, families need to regain economic stability and some communities are cautious about the vaccine, she stated. She called for giving communities confidence about the vaccine through access and understanding. Additionally, she asserted budgeting challenges will persist and urged a partnership between the commonwealth and higher education institutions.

JoAnne Epps, executive vice president and provost, Temple University, commented COVID-19's impact has been substantial and expressed gratitude for the commonwealth's support. She explained Temple University went remote in March but tried to bring back students that depended on in-person, hands-on education. Additionally, Temple provided co-curricular and extracurricular activities to supplement students' online experience. Epps indicated students faced increased needs, so Temple offered additional financial, academic and emotional support.

Epps echoed the comments that COVID-19's economic impact was significant, noting Temple reduced budgets and some salary increases to address this. However, this only resulted in $50 million in savings compared to the $120 million in projected losses, particularly with increased testing needs. She explained Temple offered their arena as a surge hospital and increased partnerships within the community. Epps remarked they are "cautiously optimistic" about the fall and hope for predominately in-person classes. Concluding, she stressed the necessity of higher education, commenting college degrees are needed to solve contemporary problems.

Thomas Foley, president, Association of Independent Colleges and Universities of Pennsylvania (AICUP), described the schools in AICUP, asserting they are "fundamental economic partners" that have economic, workforce, tax, and community service contributions. COVID-19's cost for AICUP schools has been over $1 billion, he continued, and he reiterated the impacts on mental health and communities. He remarked on the resiliency of the industry, describing how schools have worked to address the pandemic and emerge from the situation. At the beginning of the shutdown, many students did not have safe living arrangements, so schools ensured those students were taken care of, he explained. He commended schools' efforts in adjusting to COVID-19, but urged continued support for testing, personal protective equipment (PPE), contact tracing, and vaccinations; flexibility in laws and regulations for qualifying nurses and certifying teachers; and addressing liability for non-profit institutions. He expressed his gratitude for sustained funding for the Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency (PHEAA).

Chairman Sonney inquired about concerns and regarding incoming new classes and potential losses experienced by freshmen. Erickson indicated about 60 percent of their community college students require remediation and the numbers are likely to go up. He referenced a program in NCC where they provide remediation at high schools and noted they will likely do more remediation due to COVID-19. Allen commented Lincoln University scaled credit-bearing courses to provide extra practice and opportunities for students to hone skills. Epps remarked schools need to be "flexible" and "nimble," adding they won't know the level of educational loss until students return to classrooms. She commented schools are navigating the situation without prior experience to learn from. Driscoll highlighted the potential for expanding cross-sector collaboration, pointing to partnerships between K-12 systems and colleges. He affirmed schools will need to learn and adapt in the future.

Rep. Staats referenced campus recruiting, noting companies are concerned about talent pipelines. He asked for the panelists' thoughts and observations on the issue. Driscoll asserted IUP's Career and Professional Development Center has continued virtual interactions with students to prepare for workforce transitions and connect with potential employers. He acknowledged it is not as helpful as face-to-face interactions and interviews, but they have been proactive in trying to address the issue. Foley explained 70 percent of their students are in career-directed majors and their career programs are "zooming up the Zoom" to continue engagement with students. Erickson remarked NCC has had more appointments in the career planning placement office, and they have provided virtual open houses and recruiting fairs. Additionally, they have promoted partnerships with local workforce organizations and businesses to ensure a continued pipeline, he said. Epps commented employers have "abandoned the rigid way in which they used to select," resulting in a more diversified workforce and a broader pipeline.

Rep. Isaacson indicated the mental health and education gap needs to be addressed and students need to be on campuses. She inquired about communications with the Department of Health (DOH) regarding vaccinations, noting Temple provided a mass vaccination site in Philadelphia that could possibly be emulated. Epps remarked the House Education Committee could be helpful in supporting broad-based vaccine deliveries and affirmed Temple is ready and willing to provide vaccines to members of the university as well as the surrounding community. She noted Temple can follow refrigeration requirements and many universities can help in vaccination efforts. Foley stated many institutions volunteered to be points of dispensing (PODs) and they have maintained continued communication with DOH regarding their willingness to help. He remarked many higher education institutions are embedded in their communities and have the necessary health and science programs to be able to assist. He continued they have distributed information about vaccines and many schools have provided community education programs on where and why to receive vaccines. Schools are ready to partner with the state, he affirmed. Erickson noted universities are "inextricably connected" with health systems and have several health programs.

Allen remarked on the partnership between the Chester County Health Department and Lincoln University for testing, training, communications, and vaccine distribution. She reiterated some communities may feel hesitant about the vaccine, so it is important to talk to people about it. She affirmed getting people ready for the vaccine is just as essential as access to the vaccine. Driscoll explained IUP partnered with a local hospital for testing and PPE, and they developed novel testing techniques for onsite local testing for rural residents. He noted there is a significant older population in Indiana County, which is slowing vaccine availability for IUP health care professionals. He highlighted partnerships between university, state and hospital systems to raise visibility regarding the vaccine.

Rep. Gaydos questioned if the process for admission is competitive. Erickson noted they are open-access institutions that encourage all types of students. There are still steps between applying and actually being in the college, he continued, and NCC has navigators available to help students. Rep. Gaydos asked what percentage of students that apply are accepted. Epps indicated Temple is competitive so not all applications are accepted, and the acceptance rate is around 60 percent. Foley remarked that for independent non-profit schools it "runs the gamut," with some schools accepting under 10 percent and others accepting above 95 percent. Rep. Gaydos asked for the percentage of these students on PHEAA loans. Foley stated 44 percent of all PHEAA students are in the 92 independent non-profit schools. He added he did not know what percentage of the student populations is made up of PHEAA students.

Rep. Gaydos noted President Joe Biden has discussed loan forgiveness and questioned how this would affect students. She also asked what universities' responsibilities should be in paying the government back for the loan forgiveness. Erickson reiterated they are open-access and accept virtually 100 percent of applications. However, finances are a main barrier for attendance, he said. He voiced support for more dollars to help students attend college as well as additional support for students regarding loans. Allen remarked many higher education institutions work to help students and ensure families and communities can move up in terms of social mobility. She highlighted a study on students' economic levels after graduation, noting many low-income students moved to higher situations after receiving a degree. She affirmed students start at different points and use their degrees to move up economically. Dr. Driscoll stated institutions have acceptance rates ranging from 70 percent to 90 percent and noted IUP's mission is to provide a pathway for first- generation college students. Cost of attendance is a major challenge, he stated, and said the question of institutions paying back loans leads to the question of whether current students should pay back the loans of prior students or if it should be through the commonwealth's appropriation. There are no other sources of funds and it is a complex issue schools need to address, he stated. Rep. Gaydos agreed on the importance of discussing the issue and becoming more efficient.

Foley emphasized the necessity of looking at net tuition, noting the number is lower than it was five years ago and has had minimum fluctuations. Loan forgiveness programs should be looking at that number when targeting students, he opined. Epps indicated 80 percent of Temple students are on financial aid and the university has worked to help needy students. However, sometimes financial help is not enough, she said. She affirmed higher education institutions have become efficient, especially recently, but there have been increased costs for things such as internet access and mental health needs, which is increasing the cost of attending college. These increased costs are key to students' success, she remarked, but it is important for these issues to be balanced.

Rep. Gaydos suggested the possibility of providing financial counseling for students prior to graduating to make sure they can manage their student debt. Epps stated financial counseling should be available even sooner in Philadelphia due to a more expensive lifestyle for students there. Driscoll opined financial counseling should be available for students and families before they even apply. Rep. Gaydos referenced legislation by Rep. Brown last year that would provide financial counseling for high school students.

Chairman Longietti asked about what has changed that will never be the same and what has been the biggest challenge from the pandemic. Erikson commented the pandemic has served as an "accelerator" that pushed them to implement their 3-year remote learning planning into one year. Even after the pandemic is over, he stated it is likely they will continue to provide more and higher quality remote services. Regarding the biggest challenges, he indicated students have been hard-hit by COVID-19, particularly low-income students and students of color. Enrollments are down when students need colleges more than ever, he said, and the variety of problems is negatively impacting students. He expressed hope for a comeback in the fall. Driscoll agreed on COVID-19's impact on accelerated and effective use of technology, as well as educators being able to focus on reaching out to students more easily. He added they are better able to focus on the essentials and build a higher education system for future generations. One of the major challenges is making a "gentle transition" to the new normal and taking advantage of lessons learned, he said. Schools cannot just go back to old ways, he opined, instead they must continue to benefit from what they learned from the challenges they experienced.

Allen commented one of the biggest lessons learned was on the importance of public health. She referenced H1N1, noting they had utilized hand sanitizing dispensers during that time, but the dispensers had to be replaced because they ignored them when the H1N1 pandemic ended. She reiterated the importance of staying aware of health crises and keeping campus communities safe. Regarding challenges, she stated one of the main challenges is getting people comfortable with some semblance of normalcy. People are afraid to be social, she opined, and it is importance to honor the concerns and hesitation some people may have. Epps restated that COVID-19 accelerated remote education and faculty members have learned how to do distance teaching or hybrid delivery. She noted there is a question about how much remote learning becomes a part of the future. Additionally, Epps stated a major challenge for higher education institutions will be determining what the new normal for higher education should be and how to equip themselves to address it. Foley discussed generational adaption, noting teachers had to adapt to what was normal for students to education them. Additionally, Foley stated there has been heightened teamwork, pointing to teams on campuses that are dedicated to responding to the pandemic. Major challenges for institutions include balancing the books, catching students up on important aspects of their education that they missed out on, and resolving disparate impacts on certain student populations, he stated.

Rep. Ciresi referenced co-curricular and extracurricular programs at Temple, faculty concerns about adequate instructions, and issues with addressing students' experience. He inquired if universities are looking at post-graduation for students or providing them with extra classes to make up for missed experiences. Additionally, he asked how universities will engage former students to be future donors if students did not get the full experience. Foley responded fundraising is already an issue but it "maybe be different down the road." Some schools are missing the funds they would normally receive from sports, he noted. Regarding post-graduation and extracurricular programs, he asserted several schools are looking at ways to allow recent graduates to continue to participate. Allen remarked getting students through courses and determining mastery of concepts is difficult for remote learning. Communities have come together to fill in gaps, she added. Regarding donor impacts, she reiterated Lincoln University has worked to let students know that they care, they are trying to keep them safe, and they will help students persist. She pointed to the university honoring athletic scholarships despite their athletic conference being canceled as an example. She reiterated they are working to help students persist, keep them safe, continue their education, and provide services, and she hopes students can remembers this when they graduate.

Epps remarked that in some cases teachers found one-on-one interactions were enhanced with remote learning and that faculty and students adapted to challenging experiences. While students have missed out on some opportunities, she said, graduates are well-positioned and "they will remember the institution that launched them." Most of their courses are online, she continued, but people still live in the surrounding communities and have connections to colleagues, so students remain engaged. Erickson indicated that while current students' experiences are different, they still have student organizations, events and activities. Higher education institutions have focused on students first and have had direct engagement with them, he stated.

Rep. Ciresi highlighted a modest fee increase for some music students that was mentioned in testimony. He asked if this is seen in other majors because of changing educational models. Driscoll affirmed they implemented a fee increase for private lessons but noted this had not been increased for a while, so it was likely to have happened even without COVID-19. He noted the increase is a modest increase around $25. Regarding the previous question, he highlighted some activities available for students to interact with colleagues, such as watching Netflix movies together or playing bingo. He stated they finished their donation campaign above their goal because of people giving back. Additionally, he highlighted a student assistance fund that was established to help with challenges, explaining it raised $445,000, with some donations from current students.

Rep. Nelson questioned if schools are looking at the stratification of income for recent college graduations. He emphasized the benefits of looking at both the cost of attendance and the reward of attendance and asked if schools are seeing stagnation or that the rewards of education are moving uniformly. Epps responded that impacts are probably not uniform, but studies continue to show the validity of college degrees. The range of benefits will vary, she continued, but degrees help income potential. Regarding stratification, she noted they have not looked at the issue recently, but it is important to continue to focus on it. The answer to this issue will change, so schools need to be able to respond accordingly, she indicated. Foley noted they look at quintile measurements to help determine mobility. Additionally, he commented on the impact of early education and higher education on income and encouraged investing in the "bookends" of education. There are still disparate impacts on income based on race and gender, he noted.

Allen emphasized the importance of watching social mobility indicators and finding jobs that move students. Colleges not only prepare people economically, but also social and psychologically, she remarked. She stressed that educating the people of Pennsylvania will help communities progress. Driscoll stated schools continually look at workforce needs and that predictions are continually changing, especially now. Institutions are consistently reconfiguring themselves and continue to educate students accordingly, he said, and some skills will become more important than others as things change. Erickson reiterated that schools are embedded in their communities and noted that when they track average salaries, they generally see positive results. He asserted higher education institutions change trajectories not only for students but also for families and communities.

Rep. Nelson asked about COVID-19's impact on schools' community populations as well as its impact on and financial constraints for immigrant and undocumented student populations. Foley remarked this was a "huge issue" at the beginning of the shutdown, noting they worked with the state to ensure students were safe and could stay on campus. He continued it is still an issue and expressed hope that student aid funding in federal legislation will have guidance soon so it can be used to address this. Driscoll explained operating practices for housing and dining were changed, but they worked to serve students that did not have a safe place to go. He indicated there were previous questions on whether international student populations would be evicted from the country. Erickson acknowledged they have significant populations of international and undocumented students, affirming their goal it to "meet students where they're at" and provide them with necessary supports while remaining within the rules they must follow. He expressed support for "thoughtful, forward-moving legislation that addresses the appropriate needs of individuals that come into this country." Allen restated CARES Act funds could not be used to support certain students, but they received support from donations. She affirmed they are using creative thinking and allocations to ensure they are supporting those students and not leaving them behind.

Rep. Schroeder inquired if the 35 percent decrease in students attending school for schools nationally or for a specific school. Dr. Allen affirmed it is national enrollment data, reiterating that many students are taking gap years. Rep. Schroeder described a situation where a mother had to take her son to South Carolina to take the SATs because it was too difficult to do so in Pennsylvania. She asked what is causing this to happen, both for standardized tests and gap years. Allen commented a major reason is fear and questions about safety. Noting many institutions have waived standardized tests, she said they are considering alternatives and new testing criteria. Many high school seniors are not comfortable with going to college and families are still suffering financially, she continued, resulting in declining or flat enrollments. Epps remarked application numbers are up at Temple but there is no guarantee those students will come. She noted previously institutions had to be aware of "test-optional students," asserting this needs to be addressed as many students are unable to take the SATs. She expressed her support for moving away from "blindly" following standardized tests and looking beyond standardized tests to reach flexibility in the definition of excellence.

Rep. Schroeder questioned if legislation establishing an ombudsman office for navigating student loan debts would be helpful. Epps responded, "Absolutely." Allen agreed and noted that as complicated policies come out, experts will be needed in order to understand these policies. Rep. Gleim asked if the legislature should provide additional fixes, such as flexibility in laws for dual enrollment relationships. Dr. Erickson remarked dual enrollment is a great pathway for college success, particularly for students from challenged and underserved communities. He noted the commonwealth took away funding support and they cannot provide engagement for students who need it. He urged continued support from the commonwealth to help students find pathways to college through dual enrollment. Foley agreed dual enrollment provides students with a pathway to success as well as affordability. He described how a higher education institution increased dual enrollment in an economically depressed area and affirmed they believe that "anything that promotes dual enrollment is a good thing." Dr. Driscoll agreed.

Rep. Gleim inquired about what the legislature can do for workforce development for schools. Erickson pointed to continued support for training programs as an example, noting they partnered with a workforce board in the community and provide grants. He expressed support for workforce development support that is flexible and targeted. Driscoll noted many individuals will have to transition to new careers and voiced his support for reskilling and upskilling programs. He asserted the importance of funds and flexibility, especially for post-pandemic success. Epps encouraged supporting programs and incentivizing businesses to hire students that go through workforce development programs. Foley remarked higher education and workforce development are partners. Jobs will change dramatically and many individuals will have multiple jobs, he continued, so it is important to prepare students for multiple jobs. Rep. Gleim encouraged the panelists to reach out to the committee if they hit a roadblock.

Rep. Zabel emphasized the importance of higher education and using degrees for public service, noting that while the mission of schools is career-based, college is also about exposure and exploration. He continued by saying student debt is the product of the existing problems of costs and he encouraged looking at preventative steps and front-end investments to address the issue. He noted that if the state spends money on early education it results in fewer costs in the future. He asked if schools have looked at the economic benefits of keeping tuitions costs down to prevent debts. Allen responded that gaps associated with debts creates a cycle, emphasizing the importance of not only reducing debts but also closing the gaps between the cost of attendance and what students receive in grant aids, especially for low-income students. High-quality education is costly, she remarked, so there needs to be a balance. Marginal tuition increases never fully cover the cost of education, she added. She indicated that investing more in K-12 education reduced money paid for things like incarceration and that increased earnings impacted the state's economy. She encouraged finding ways to put resources in the right place to address this issue.

Foley opined it is a complicated issue that needs to be looked at from different aspects, such as graduate student debt. He continued that delinquency rates need to be looked at and whether they are representative of certain parts of the population or particular sectors. Erickson asserted the biggest loss for Pennsylvania is students who cannot go to college, adding the commonwealth ranks 48th in the country for support for public higher education. He expressed support for driving down costs and investing in access to higher education. Driscoll commented, "If we can invest early to avoid an expense to the commonwealth, the investment will pay the return and it will avoid the expense." Both the individuals and the commonwealth win, he said, expressing support for continuing the conversation on the subject. He went on to discuss undecided students who do not declare a major when they start college, noting these students often finish more quickly than other students. He explained IUP calls them "explorer" students and indicated they make up an important part of the student population.

Rep. Gillen highlighted mentorship jobs and certain fieldwork, internship, and clinical courses that cannot hold up in remote environments. He asked how schools are accommodating these necessary experiences. Dr. Erickson explained the "initial pivot was the hardest" when they had entirely remote instruction in March. At the end of the spring semester, they brought back students in these programs to finish their hands-on learning requirements. Additionally, they brought students back on campus in the fall and spring 2021 with safety protocols in place. Epps expressed gratitude for the support from Philadelphia and Pennsylvania in allowing students to go back to campuses, noting they have not had any in-class transmission. She asserted they are working to keep students moving forward. Driscoll stated that, following guidance from the Department of Education (PDE) and DOH, they were able to place students in controlled circumstances for field experience. He remarked this has been especially difficult for culinary programs and they are still working through a backlog. He reiterated the importance of flexibility. Foley explained that ensuring clinicals could take place for health science majors took work and that they are continually challenged by laws and regulations. He asserted they continue to work with partners to address this issue.

Chairman Sonney asked the panelists whether they prefer synchronous or asynchronous teaching and which method students prefer. Allen remarked she prefers face-to-face but they "made synchronous hybrid work." She opined some parts of this will continue post-COVID-19, but nothing will totally replace face-to-face education for some students. Erickson explained a survey with students showed they preferred synchronous education, with many of them favoring on-ground, in-class learning. Driscoll said their experience is the same, though some groups expressed support for asynchronous education, such as graduate students and working adults. However, he asserted, "Everyone wants to have face-to-face interaction, whether it's every single class or occasionally." Epps noted asynchronous learning can be beneficial for quieter students, remaking everyone learns differently and people can benefit from opening opportunities for different forms of education. Most students want to be back in person, she continued, but online education is also meeting some students' needs. Foley agreed.

Chairman Sonney thanked the panelists for providing their insight and stated he looks forward to working together to confront challenges and make improvements.

- 30 - Committee Member Contact Information (click or mouse over): Sonney, Curt (R) / Brown, Rosemary (R) / Gaydos, Valerie (R) / Gillen, Mark (R) / Gleim, Barbara (R) / Hickernell, David (R) / Kail, Joshua (R) / Lewis, Andrew (R) / Mackenzie, Milou (F) (R) / Ortitay, Jason (R) / Puskaric, Michael (R) / Schroeder, Meghan (R) / Staats, Craig (R) / Topper, Jesse (R) / Twardzik, Timothy (F) (R) / Longietti, Mark (D) / Ciresi, Joseph (D) / Gainey, Ed (D) / Evans, Carol (D) / Isaacson, Mary (D) / Kim, Patty (D) / Lee, Summer (D) / Madden, Maureen (D) / Nelson, Napoleon (F) (D) / Zabel, Michael (D)