Monday Volume 678 13 July 2020 No. 85

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Monday 13 July 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 1235 13 JULY 2020 1236

David Simmonds: Does my right hon. Friend agree that House of Commons children, who are often the hidden victims of domestic violence—either as victims themselves or through witnessing Monday 13 July 2020 it among parents and other members of the household— will gain additional protection from our landmark Domestic Abuse Bill? The House met at half-past Two o’clock Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. PRAYERS The protection of children is an important issue—children are victims when it comes to domestic abuse, and it is a sad fact that children often witness some of the most [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] abhorrent abuse of their parent or others—and the Bill Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Order, does exactly that. I am really pleased and proud that we 4 June). have made sure that children are at the heart of the Bill. [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] It is right that we safeguard and protect them.

Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab): Between Oral Answers to Questions 2015 and 2019, despite domestic violence cases rising by 77%, charging fell by 18% and conviction by 20%. In 2018-19, there were almost 60,000 reports of rape to the police, but less than 1,800 were charged and less than HOME DEPARTMENT 1,000 convicted. The number of cases of rape referred by the police for charging decisions fell by 32% in 2019. The Secretary of State was asked— How does the Secretary of State account for her Government’s performance in the falling rates of charge Covid-19: Domestic Violence and conviction in sexual and domestic violence?

Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab): Priti Patel: The hon. Lady will know that extensive What steps her Department is taking to ensure that work has been undertaken across Government, not just community services working with victims of domestic recently but in previous years as well. I am absolutely violence have adequate resources to deal with an increase committed, as is my right hon. and learned Friend the in demand as a result of the covid-19 outbreak. [904574] Justice Secretary, to ensuring that we take an end-to-end approach to this through the royal commission that we David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) are establishing on the criminal justice system, and that (Con): What steps her Department is taking to help much more work is undertaken within policing to ensure protect victims of domestic abuse. [904581] that charges are undertaken and that the right kind of effective training is put in place for police forces and The Secretary of State for the Home Department police officers. I have been very clear about that through (Priti Patel): Domestic abuse devastates lives. During all my work in policing, as has the Policing Minister. this time of covid that we have all experienced, victims Ultimately, charging and getting those cases to court are particularly vulnerable, and as we know, home has has to be the priority, which is why the Home Office is not been a safe place for everyone to access the usual taking the right approach and working in the right way support that they could receive. That is why, through with the criminal justice system and the Lord Chancellor. our landmark Domestic Abuse Bill, we are committed to protecting victims in a stronger way. Points-based Immigration System Neil Coyle [V]: As things stand, the Government are discriminating against people who have “no recourse to Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con): What progress her public funds” restrictions imposed on them and their Department has made on introducing a new points-based British-born children, who are denied access to support. immigration system. [904575] Will the Home Secretary end that discrimination by amending the Domestic Abuse Bill to ensure that help Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con): What progress is provided to everyone affected by domestic violence her Department has made on introducing a new points- and scrap this fundamentally racist policy? based immigration system. [904591] Priti Patel: The Domestic Abuse Bill has, I think it is The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home fair to say, been discussed extensively in the House, and Department (Kevin Foster): We are ending free movement I want to thank everybody who has made outstanding and will introduce a new, firmer, fairer, skills-led global contributions to it, including the many organisations immigration system, with further details of it published that participated in advance of the Bill coming to the today. Last month our Immigration and Social Security House. We are offering support to migrants who suffer Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill passed through domestic abuse through our destitution domestic violence the House unamended, despite the best efforts of the concession scheme. I would like to emphasise—and the Labour party and those on the separatist Benches. hon. Gentleman will know this from his work as a Member of Parliament and with local authorities—that Lee Anderson: On behalf of the people of Ashfield, I support is provided by local authorities, and individuals fully support the Government in introducing a points-based can access safe accommodation and get support through immigration system. For far too long, freedom of movement various means, which is incredibly important. has encouraged the exploitation of migrant labour, 1237 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1238 which has driven down wages, increased pressure on The Minister for Crime and Policing (Kit Malthouse): public services, and had a significant impact on housing The Government are now spending over £15 billion on in places like Ashfield. Could my hon. Friend please policing—an increase of £1 billion on last year, with assure me that, moving forward, this Government will £700 million being allocated to police and crime implement a firm but fair points-based system attracting commissioners to recruit 6,000 additional officers by high-skilled workers while also prioritising British jobs the end of March 2021. While there is no direct connection for British people? between police numbers and crime, this will give them the capacity to be much more agile in the face of Kevin Foster: I agree with my hon. Friend. The points- changing crime. based system will support our wider economic strategy by encouraging investment in a domestic UK workforce Rachel Hopkins: Her Majesty’s inspectorate of while ensuring that businesses can still attract the brightest constabulary recently stated in its annual assessment of and the best from around the world to Ashfield. We policing that policing and some other public services want employers to focus on training and investing in are closely linked, and that the level of investment in our domestic workforce,driving productivity and improving one public service will have an effect, good or bad, on opportunities for resident workers, with immigration another, referring to health, particularly mental health, policy being part of, not an alternative to, our strategy drug and alcohol services, housing and social services as for the UK labour market. examples. What assessment has the Minister made of the huge detrimental impact that covid-19 has had on Marco Longhi: The introduction of the points-based local authorities responsible for these services, and the immigration system is a pledge that we gave to the British fact that many local councils, including Luton Borough people and one that we are now delivering on. Does my Council in my constituency, are being forced into making hon. Friend agree that now is also the time for employers significant in-year budget cuts, thus having an impact to create the working conditions for our home-grown on local policing? population to be attracted to the work that those employers should be offering? Kit Malthouse: The hon. Lady is quite right to draw the connections between policing and other services in Kevin Foster: I absolutely agree. Under our new points- the public sector. I cannot speak for the resilience or based immigration system, the UK, especially the Black otherwise of the finances of her particular local authority. Country, will continue to be open to the best talent I can say, however, that the Prime Minister has tasked from around the world. But my hon. Friend is right: me and the Home Secretary with the job of driving employers should always be looking to recruit from the cross-Government working to deal with some of the domestic workforce first and ensure that they offer terms causal factors in crime, beyond enforcement, and we and conditions, and career development opportunities, will be talking to local authorities across this country that make this possible, especially as we look to support about the part that they can play. those who have suffered the economic effects of covid-19 Gerald Jones: Money for additional police officers is back into to work. welcomed across the board, even though it does not take police numbers back to pre-2010 levels. Surely the Police Funding Minister would acknowledge, though, that baseline budgets in police forces are being cut again this year, and capital Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab): What steps she funding is almost non-existent, so unless the Secretary is taking to allocate adequate funding to police forces. of State is able to win more money for policing generally, [904576] forces will be unable to keep the officers they have got.

Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab): Kit Malthouse: The hon. Gentleman is obviously a What steps she is taking to allocate adequate funding to cup-half-empty person rather than a cup-nearly-three- police forces. [904577] quarters-full person. The biggest settlement for policing in a decade should be welcomed by everybody across Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): What steps this House, as it has been across the whole of the she is taking to allocate adequate funding to police policing family. But that is not to say that policing is not forces. [904580] without challenges and that it cannot be more efficient. While we do want to see more police officers and a better response to crime, there is always the challenge in Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab): What steps public services to do things better for less. she is taking to allocate adequate funding to police forces. [904585] Rosie Cooper [V]: Lancashire has been allocated funding of £4.3 million to deliver an additional 153 police Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): officers by the end of this financial year, but that award What steps her Department is taking to increase police reflects a part-year cost, as 153 officers cannot be employed funding. [904588] for the whole year because the cost is £9.8 million. So will the Minister commit to providing the full funding Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con): What steps for 2021-22, and for future years, to sustain these additional her Department is taking to increase police funding. officers? [904597] Kit Malthouse: The hon. Lady is perhaps confusing Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con): What steps her her figures, shall we say? Lancashire police received a Department is taking to increase police funding. [904604] £22.6 million increase in funding this year, which will 1239 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1240 allow it to recruit another 153 police officers over the Ruth Edwards: Will the Minister join me in praising next 12 months—less than 12 months now—up to March Nottinghamshire police, which has acted so quickly to next year. It is making good progress, and has recruited recruit more officers that it is 12 months ahead of the 66 already. Government’s recruitment target and was the first force to introduce police officer degree apprenticeships? Does Margaret Greenwood [V]: Recently,coastal communities he agree with me that forces such as Nottinghamshire, such as West Kirby and Caldy in my constituency have which are leading the way and which have also increased seen huge numbers of visitors in search of relaxation their diversity, should be first in line for any additional and exercise.This has placed additional strain on Merseyside Government funding? police, which has been working hard to respond to the concerns of local residents about crowds on beaches Kit Malthouse: It is very heartening to see that one of and in parks. Merseyside police estimates that the cost my hon. Friend’s priorities as a new Member in this of the pandemic to date is £4.1 million, due to overtime, House is to stand with and defend her local police, and the cost of PPE, specialist cleaning and lost income. she is quite right to do so. I join her in offering our Will the Minister give an assurance that Merseyside thanks and praise to them for the work they have done. police will be reimbursed for these costs? In fact, I was able to do so in person because I was on the phone with her chief constable just this morning. Kit Malthouse: I have had a number of telephone She is quite right that Nottinghamshire is a forward-looking conversations with the chief constable of Merseyside police force, and we will be supporting it in its endeavours police over the last few weeks and months, as has my right to innovate and challenge crime in the months to come. hon. Friend the Home Secretary, and I am pleased to say that that force is in good heart, as far as we could Sarah Jones (Croydon Central) (Lab): On the one tell. Happily,it is running well in advance of its recruitment hand, the Prime Minister has hailed an end to austerity allocation. I am told that, at the end of March, it had and promised 20,000 new frontline police officers, and recruited 220 police officers, against an allocation of on the other, we had alarming reports at the weekend of 200, which does give it extra capacity to deal with forces facing up to 15% cuts. Covid, on top of 10 years the problems that the hon. Member has outlined. of austerity, has created a perfect storm for police Notwithstanding that fact, there are obviously extra funding, with lower council tax coming in, the costs of costs for policing with covid-19, and we are in conversation PPE and lower income from some of their sources, such with the Treasury about how we might address them. as airports and large events. I have heard from multiple sources that essential staff jobs will have to be cut, Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: Following the excellent meaning that frontline police officers will end up covering announcement that my hon. Friend has given the House non-frontline roles, which is completely the opposite of this afternoon, which goes a long way towards meeting what the Prime Minister intends. One senior police our Conservative party pledge to recruit an extra 20,000 officer said to me this morning, “This looks like austerity police officers, would he agree that the real importance by the back door.” Can the Minister commit today to of those police officers is that every criminal will know plugging the funding gap from council precepts to that it is much more likely their crime is going to be guarantee there will not be a need to cut police staff? investigated and, if it is proved, will result in a prosecution? Kit Malthouse: First, on a technical front, perhaps Kit Malthouse: With his usual perspicacity, my hon. the hon. Lady misunderstands how the precept works. Friend puts his finger on the button. We know that the The primary liability, if you like, is covered by the greatest deterrent of crime is the perception of the precepting authority, which has by law to pass on the likelihood of being caught, and the fact that Gloucestershire precept in full, notwithstanding any issues it might have police has now more than recruited its annual allocation with collection. And perhaps, alongside her many skills, of police officers—he will be pleased to hear—at 48, she has acquired telepathy and foresight, because she over 46, already so far this year, means that that is much seems to be pre-empting a spending review that has not more likely to be the case in his county. even started. Police Officer Numbers Peter Aldous: Suffolk constabulary, one of the lowest funded forces from central Government, has made Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con): What steps significant efficiency savings and the council tax has her Department is taking to increase the number of increased by over 25% in three years. Can my hon. police officers. [904578] Friend the Minister confirm that the review of the grant funding formula is still going ahead in the next few Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con): What steps months, as this is vital to the future of policing in her Department is taking to increase the number of Suffolk? police officers. [904579] Kit Malthouse: My hon. Friend is a doughty champion Christian Wakeford (Bury South) (Con): What steps for his constituency and his county, and I understand her Department is taking to increase the number of his impatience and his desire to battle for their financial police officers. [904606] interests, as I did as a Back Bencher for Hampshire. Both the Home Secretary and I have said in public in The Secretary of State for the Home Department the past that the funding formula, while it is the only (Priti Patel): As we have already discussed, we are in the formula we have at the moment, is a bit old-fashioned process of recruiting an extra 20,000 police officers to and probably needs to be looked at, and as part of our put violent criminals behind bars, and already we have vision for policing in the future, no doubt we will get to recruited more than 3,000. We will continue to back the it in time. police and deliver on higher police numbers. 1241 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1242

Mark Logan [V]: Speeding complaints are well and Covid-19: Public Order truly up in Bolton North East. All this fast is making my constituents furious. On the day I took part in a Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): What steps community speed watch on Ainsworth Lane, 74 mph her Department is taking to maintain public order was recorded in a 20 mph zone. The problem is particularly during the covid-19 outbreak. [904582] severe on Blackburn, Halliwell and Turton Roads. Many of these 20 mph areas are located near schools, yet the Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con): What steps her speed limit is not enforced. Does the Home Secretary Department is taking to maintain public order during agree that regulations should be introduced to ensure the covid-19 outbreak. [904595] speed limits are adhered to and close a very dangerous The Secretary of State for the Home Department loophole to keep my residents safe and put an end to the (Priti Patel): The Home Office has been working with “Fast & Furious” sequels? the National Police Chiefs’ Council every single day Priti Patel: I agree with my hon. Friend about the throughout the covid crisis, not only to back the police devastating impact that speeding can have on lives and when it comes to law enforcement but, equally importantly, communities, and he is right to highlight the irresponsible to ensure that they are resourced throughout covid to speeds being driven, particularly in residential areas provide the support required for frontline police officers. and near schools. We do not plan to legislate, but he will Alun Cairns: During this covid period, many coastal know that police enforcement around speeding is a communities have found themselves under threat from matter for the police authority itself. I would be happy mass gatherings—in my constituency, Ogmore-by-Sea to work with him if he has particular issues or concerns is one example and Barry Island is another. Will my he would like me to pick up. right hon. Friend join me in sending the strongest message that such behaviour will not be tolerated? Will Ben Everitt: I bounced in here this afternoon ready to she support the police and pay tribute to them for the sing the praises of Thames Valley police force for its strong action they are taking to ensure that coastal positive recruitment campaign, which is ahead of schedule communities can be enjoyed by families and by tourists to meet its officer target, but it seems that this is not new who want to visit and enjoy our fantastic resources? news,because every other Conservative Member is similarly pleased with their local force for meeting its police Priti Patel: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. I targets and getting those officer numbers up. Will the have visited his constituency in the past and know how Home Secretary join me in praising Thames Valley beautiful it is. I commend the officers and the police police in Milton Keynes especially for keeping our rural chief for all the work that they have been doing. My and city centre communities safe? right hon. Friend is right to want that area to protected for local residents so that it can be enjoyed responsibly. Priti Patel: I commend my hon. Friend for his There is of course no scope at all for antisocial behaviour. enthusiasm, his gusto and his support for Thames Valley We have been continuing to support the police to make police. I will share something with the House. I have a sure that they have been equipped throughout this covid soft spot for Thames Valley police. It was one of the crisis to police effectively and encourage the right and first police forces I visited when I became Home Secretary. responsible kinds of behaviours. I visited because of a devastating event that took place—the tragic death of a police officer—and I commend the Selaine Saxby: Will my right hon. Friend join me in chief constable, John Campbell, and the officers. They welcoming the investment made just last week by the really are an impressive police force. They police a very Devon and Cornwall police and crime commissioner, significant geography and quite frankly are the best of Alison Hernandez, to provide an additional half a million us all, and he is absolutely right to commend them for pounds in emergency funding to 20 tourism hotspots in the work they do. our two counties—including two in my North Devon constituency—to help to prevent alcohol-related antisocial Christian Wakeford: Getting more officers on to our behaviour following the lifting of lockdown? Will she streets is one of the people’s priorities, which I know is commit to look at how such additional covid-related why my right hon. Friend is committed to recruiting costs can be supported by the Government? 20,000 police officers over the next three years, but can she confirm how many have been recruited in Greater Priti Patel: I commend everybody locally for the Manchester, and can she also reassure my constituents fantastic work that they have been doing across policing that they are fully equipped to tackle crime and keep and, of course, I commend my hon. Friend and her our streets safe? police and crime commissioner as well. She is right to raise the additional costs of covid—in fact, my hon. Priti Patel: I thank my hon. Friend for his dedication Friend the Policing Minister has already touched on the and support both to policing locally and to his constituents fact that we are in discussions with the Treasury. It is in terms of wanting to keep them safe. It is absolutely inevitable that extra costs have arisen, whether for PPE right. On recruitment across Greater Manchester, I or the additional hours that police officers have been commend his chief constable, and I can confirm that, as given. That work is ongoing, but at this point I would of the end of March, Greater Manchester police had like to commend everybody for the great work that they recruited an additional 94 officers towards the year’s have been doing throughout this crisis. allocation, and I can confirm, too, that that number is going up and up. Since our campaign started we have Conor McGinn (St Helens North) (Lab): I fully agree had over 70,00 applicants to become police officers, with the Home Secretary about supporting the work which is something we should be proud of, because that the police do to maintain public order, but I cannot policing is an incredible profession. help but feel that although the Home Secretary talks a 1243 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1244 good game, we have not seen much evidence of action. Rushanara Ali: I thank the Minister for his answer, We have seen a marked decline in the number of public- but the fact that migrant workers in the NHS and care order trained officers and police support units on this sector have had to pay the surcharge in the first phase is Government’s watch, and the recruitment that she talks an insult to their sacrifices,and the fact that the Government about simply will not replace that decline and will take a are taking so long to implement the Prime Minister’s lot of time. What is the Home Secretary doing now— promise is an added insult. May I ask the Minister how today—to support chief constables to deal with these many people have now got the exemption and how pressures and to ensure that our frontline officers have many have yet to receive it? the proper resources and the training they need? Kevin Foster: The hon. Member asks how long, but I Priti Patel: It is absolutely right that, through the said in my answer that refund payments had already started, recruitment and investment that this Government are and we will imminently implement the new health and putting into policing—the largest ever policing funding care visa, which will see those on it exempt. So work is settlement, certainly for the past decade, of more than a continuing, and to be clear, the health surcharge is billion pounds— about creating resources for the NHS and has supported the NHS. We have announced this policy, and we are Conor McGinn: You sacked them all—that is why driving it forward. you are having to recruit new ones. Sam Tarry [V]: Ilford South is a diverse constituency, Priti Patel: No, I have not sacked them all, to be quite with 60% of my local population coming from either frank— heritage communities or directly from immigrant communities. An Oxford University study last year Conor McGinn: Your Government have. found that the net fiscal giving from immigration to our country’seconomy between 2001 and 2011 was £25 billion. Priti Patel: Our investment in policing is the largest People in Ilford South are wondering whether the Minister investment in over a decade, and that is something that agrees that it was wrong for the Government to act so every single police chief around the country is supporting. slowly to move this policy forward and whether they The hon. Gentleman should take stock of the fact that should offer an apology to the people in Ilford South when he speaks to police chiefs—as I do every single working in our NHS, who are fearful and risking their day and as my hon. Friend the Policing Minister does lives, and not getting the support they deserve from the every single day—he will hear that they welcome the Government? investment in not only new officers but training. The money that has been put in to invest in new officers also Kevin Foster: I think the people of Ilford South covers a wide range of training. That is training that has working in the NHS will have been pleased to see the gone into the national College of Policing. That is measures that we have taken, not least the fact that we training and investment in the professional development— will look to prioritise those coming to work for the [Interruption.] It is taking place now. That is training NHS under our new visa system. and investment in the professional development of our police officers. That is something that we should all be Zarah Sultana: Key workers kept our country running proud of. through the crisis, from doctors and nurses to supermarket assistants and delivery drivers. That is why we clap for Immigration Health Surcharge Exemption them. They all pay their taxes, and they all contribute to the NHS.That is whythe NHS surcharge is a discriminatory Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): What double tax on migrants. The Government acknowledge progress she has made on implementing the immigration that it is wrong to clap for nurses one day and charge health surcharge exemption for NHS and social care them extra the next, so will the Minister extend that workers. [904584] principle to all workers and scrap the immigration health surcharge for all? Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab): What progress she has made on implementing the immigration health Kevin Foster: I will contrast those comments with the surcharge exemption for NHS and social care workers. comments on the immigration health surcharge from [904587] the Labour party during the Immigration Bill Committee. We are clear that our NHS offers fantastic free-at-point- Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): What progress of-need care and services, and it is not unreasonable to she has made on implementing the immigration health ask those who come to this country to make a contribution surcharge exemption for NHS and social care workers. towards it until they achieve indefinite leave to remain [904590] or settlement, which means that they are making a long-term commitment to this country and are therefore The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the exempt from the charge. Home Department (Kevin Foster): Home Office and Department of Health and Social Care officials are Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab): Further to the excellent working to implement the surcharge exemption. The questions already asked, Dr Sadara is just one of the Home Office is currently identifying all those on a tier 2 hundreds of clinicians who have already had to pay the visa who will benefit from a refund, and those payments immigration health surcharge since the Prime Minister have already started. Those eligible to apply for the new said that it would end, not just for himself and his wife, health and care visa will be exempt from the immigration but twice in six months for his newborn baby daughter. health surcharge. We do not just want these medics to stay in the NHS; we 1245 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1246 need them to stay in the NHS. The new rules published across the country, the resources that police forces have this morning confirm that the charge will end, but they there and the local authorities that have to step in and do not come into effect until January, so can the Minister put the child protection and victim support in place, as update the House? When will the surcharge end for there is not enough nationally? health and social care workers, and why do the details published this morning suggest that some will still have Priti Patel: The hon. Lady is right. It is fair to say to pay it and then be reimbursed? that she and I go back a long way on this issue. I recall that she first came to see me on this point when I was in Kevin Foster: The details published this morning relate the Treasury many years ago. She knows that I have to the new system beyond 1 January.However, to be clear, recently announced that the Home Office will be publishing we will refund those who have paid the charge since a paper to help us better understand the characteristics 31 March, not just since the time when the Prime associated with groups. I would welcome it if she were Minister made the announcement. We expect to bring to work with me and to join our external reference in the new health and care visa significantly before group that I have established on this important area. 1 January; we are planning to have it in place before She specifically raises issues about third-party organisations, 1 October, and people applying for it will not have to and she mentioned some in her own constituency. I have pay the surcharge. met many survivors and sufferers with her on this issue. They have had a terrible time. They have also been Places of Worship: Hate Crimes failed by many aspects of the state and society. We can never allow that to happen again, which is why I am John Howell (Henley) (Con): What steps her Department committed, not just through resourcing, but through is taking to prevent hate crimes against places of worship. the work that I have commissioned in the Department, [904589] which I know she will join me in and support us on, to make sure that no other aspect of the state, organisation, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the third party, or Government institution turns a blind eye Home Department (Victoria Atkins) [V]: Weare committed and ignores the needs of individuals in the way that to protecting places of worship from hate crimes through happened in her constituency. the places of worship protected security scheme. The funding for next year, at £3.2 million, is an uplift of Online Harms: Social Media nearly double the amount awarded last year. A public consultation on providing greater protection from hate crime for places of worship closed on 28 June. We are Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): What reviewing the responses and will respond in due course. steps her Department is taking to tackle online harms on social media platforms. [904593] John Howell: There is a balance to be struck between worshipping openly and being provided with adequate The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home security. Will the Minister say what success the Department (Victoria Atkins): We are firmly committed Government’splaces of worship protective security funding to making the UK the safest place in the world to be scheme has had in achieving that balance? online. We will be publishing a full Government response to the online harms White Paper consultation in the Victoria Atkins: Very much so. I can assure my hon. autumn and our ambition is to bring forward legislation Friend that the places of worship protective security in this Session. In the meantime, the Home Office funding scheme has been designed so that each place of continues to engage with social media platforms on the worship can apply for practical security measures that safety of their users. We are clear that these companies suit their individual needs, ranging from CCTV to need to take action now to tackle illegal harms. alarm systems. This allows each place of worship to remain open and accessible for worshippers,while providing Mr Dhesi: It has been more than a year since the greater security. We want to ensure that this scheme Government published their online harms White Paper listens to worshippers and their communities when seeking and yet there is still no proper protection in place. to achieve the balance to which he rightly refers. Instead, all we have had are delays, ministerial briefings about potentially watering down the sanctions within Sexual Exploitation of Children: Organised Gangs the White Paper, and continued intensive lobbying by tech giants, which are still failing to remove harmful Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab): What progress content and disinformation. That really is poor, so can she has made on preventing the sexual exploitation of the Minister update the House about what conversations children by organised gangs. [904592] she has had with social media companies about taking down harmful content and when exactly will the online The Secretary of State for the Home Department harms Bill finally be published? (Priti Patel): I thank the hon. Lady for her a question and pay tribute to her Victoria Atkins: The online harms White Paper was for the work that she has done specifically on the whole world leading in its ambitions to sort out the online world. issue of child sexual exploitation. We are very clear that what is illegal offline is also illegal online and that has been the driving force behind our Sarah Champion: I am grateful that the Home Secretary work on this White Paper and on the consultation. As I takes this topic seriously. We in Rotherham are very have said, we will be responding to the consultation in fortunate because we have National Crime Agency to the autumn. We are very much working at pace on this, deal with past cases, but will she also look at cases but we should not shirk the fact that we are leading the 1247 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1248 world potentially with this work, including our work on Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): The tackling online child sexual exploitation, and we all NAO report mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member want this abuse to stop. for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) is about not just value for money but people. Asylum seekers Covid-19: Support for Asylum Seekers are, by their very nature, vulnerable people, with many of them being survivors of trafficking or ill treatment, Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): What assessment including torture. Yet under the existing Home Office she has made of the adequacy of support and contracts with private companies, it is possible for those accommodation for asylum seekers during the covid-19 companies to shove hundreds of these asylum seekers outbreak. [904594] into hotels without doing proper individual assessments Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP): of their vulnerabilities. The NAO report records that What assessment she has made of the adequacy of 10 months into these contracts there is no safeguarding support and accommodation for asylum seekers during framework. Can the Minister give us a date on which he will introduce a safeguarding framework for these private the covid-19 outbreak. [904615] company contracts? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Chris Philp): We remain committed Chris Philp: The hon. and learned Lady asked about to providing support and accommodation to those who vulnerability assessments. In the Glasgow case we are need it, but, in addition to that free accommodation, we discussing, vulnerability assessments were undertaken also pay for utility bills and council tax. Free NHS care before people were moved, and I understand that 109 people is available to those who need it, and there is free who might have been moved from the temporary serviced education for those with children. In addition, for three accommodation into the hotels were not moved as a months, starting on 27 March, we paused the process of consequence of exactly that vulnerability assessment. asylum cessation, and a 5% increase in the cash allowance She made a more general point about taking care of was made just a few weeks ago. people who are vulnerable. This country has an extremely proud record in this area: last year, we made 20,000 grants Patrick Grady: Is the Minister suggesting that he of asylum or protection, which is one of the highest levels would not give these things to people who need them, in Europe; we welcomed more than 3,500 unaccompanied no matter what their background or where they come asylum-seeking children, which is the highest level for from? He was good enough to meet Glasgow’s MPs, but any European country; and we are the only G7 country the reality is that the forcing of more than 300 vulnerable to spend 0.7% of gross national income. asylum seekers into hotels by the contractor Mears has significantly damaged trust in the system. To rebuild Joanna Cherry: I thank the Minister for his answer, that trust, there has to be an independent review and but I am sure he will recall that there was a degree of lessons learned, so what steps is he taking to ensure that uncertainty about the nature of the assessments carried that review happens? out in Glasgow, and I am sure he will agree that having a safeguarding framework would ensure that that sort Chris Philp: The hon. Gentleman is right to say that of oversight would not happen again. He mentioned 341 people were moved at the end of March from meeting the leader of the Glasgow City Council. He temporary serviced apartments into hotel accommodation, will be aware that many local authorities are concerned because those apartments were considered unsuitable, that, although the Home Office is happy to pay billions bearing in mind coronavirus. He is also right to say that to private companies under these asylum contracts, no I have been meeting Glasgow MPs, and I will, of course, assessment has been made of the additional demands continue to do so. I have twice met Aileen Campbell, this places on local authority resources. Local authorities the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local are concerned that the proper financial support they Government, and the leader of Glasgow City Council, need is as far away as ever. How does he expect more and I have committed to continue such meetings—he and local authorities to become asylum dispersal areas if I have spoken about that. He and his colleagues have the Government will not give existing local authorities raised specific concerns about the hotel accommodation, the support they require? and I have asked Home Office officials to look into those urgently and report back to me. Chris Philp: National Government provide a huge amount of support and finance to help asylum-seeking Marion Fellows [V]: The requirements in the asylum populations. We pay for all the accommodation. We pay accommodation contracts to safeguard vulnerable people for the council tax, which of course goes to local are vital, yet the recent National Audit Office report authorities, and for utility bills. Those who need healthcare discloses that the contract fails to provide for proper are treated by the NHS, and of course funding for that monitoring of them or sanctions for breaches. Will the flows from central Government. Those requiring education Minister fix that? Will he explain why no safeguarding are educated, and there is a per capita funding formula framework is in place yet, despite this contract being to cover that. National Government are spending a worth billions of pounds of public money? huge amount of money supporting those populations. As the hon. and learned Lady said, the figures run over Chris Philp: We are, of course, studying the report multiple years into billions of pounds. I am always very carefully.As the House would expect, we do monitor happy to talk to local authorities about the work that carefully the way the contractors operate. Where concerns they do and how we can work better together. I am are raised, as they have been in relation to Glasgow by already doing that with Glasgow City Council, and via Glasgow MPs and others,we look into them and investigate the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local them seriously. That is what we are doing in the case of Government, Aileen Campbell, I hope to expand those Glasgow. conversations to cover other towns and cities in Scotland. 1249 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1250

Topical Questions reminding of how important and skilled care workers’ jobs are, but that does not always seem to be the case for [904634] Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): If she will make the Government. I would like to extend an invitation to a statement on her departmental responsibilities. the Home Secretary. I will convene a meeting of a delegation of care workers, alongside their trade union The Secretary of State for the Home Department representatives, to help to provide a better understanding (Priti Patel): Four years ago, the British public voted to of the incredible jobs they do. Would she care to join leave the EU—they voted to take back control of our me? I am sure she would find meeting frontline care borders and end free movement. Last year, they voted workers incredibly useful when sitting there deciding to get Brexit done and introduce a points-based immigration how skilled people’s jobs are. system. We are doing exactly that: despite the best efforts of the Labour party, we are ending free movement and Kevin Foster: Many people listening in Torfaen and introducing a points-based system. Today,we have published Halifax will be wondering whether the hon. Gentleman more details of that system, which will enable us to has been following the sad news about the economic attract the brightest and best—a firmer and fairer system impact of covid-19 and the number of our own UK-based that will take back control of our borders, crack down workers who we will need to get back into employment. on foreign criminals and unleash our country’s true It is hard to believe that many will believe that there is a potential. We are building a brighter future for Britain labour shortage. We engage regularly with the care and signalling to the world that we are open for business. sector and we listen to what it says. Our priority is that in future these jobs will be valued, rewarded and trained Rob Butler: Last week was the 15th anniversary of for, and that immigration should not be an alternative. the 7/7 terrorist attacks. It was a moment once more to commemorate those who lost their lives and repeat our [904635]PhilipDunne(Ludlow)(Con)[V]:TheEnvironmental appreciation for those who rushed to help those caught Audit Committee highlighted in our reports on hand car in those dreadful blasts—particularly those from the washes in 2018 and on fast fashion in 2019 clear evidence emergency services. Will my right hon. Friend update of modern slavery, in plain sight, in hand car washes on the House on what plans her Government have to try to streets across Britain and in garment factories in Leicester. prevent future attacks and monitor people who have Will my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary commit raised the suspicions of the police and security services? to doing all she can to work across Government agencies to rid our towns and cities of this scourge? Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to pay tribute to those people and commemorate the anniversary of those attacks. In short, we are constantly investing in Priti Patel: I completely agree with my right hon. our security and intelligence services. In particular, we Friend’s description of this modern-day scourge of are investing in counter-terrorism policing, which has exploitation. On hand car washes, local authorities need had an increase this year of £90 million—one of the to do so much more in terms of stepping in and largest uplifts ever, taking CT policing funding to more investigating with trading standards. He is right to press than £900 million. Of course, we have to do more to me and the Government on integrated working across strengthen it and ensure our system is fit, agile and all aspects of the state, at both national Government responsive to all sorts of threats. and local authority level. On Leicester, he, like all hon. Members, will be interested to know that we have Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab): I join the established a cross-Government taskforce, which will be Home Secretary in paying tribute to those who died in on the ground, asking the difficult questions of all the 7/7 attacks, and I commend the work of the emergency institutions and organisations across Leicester about services that day. this scourge in the textile sector. When I read the details of the proposed new immigration system, I was disappointed, if unfortunately not shocked, Mr Speaker: I call the Chair of the Select Committee to see evidence yet again that the Government do not on Home Affairs, Yvette Cooper. consider carers to be skilled workers, as they have been excluded from the qualifying list for the health and care Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) visa. After the Prime Minister accused care workers of (Lab): Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Select Committee not following the guidance on covid-19, and now this, has repeatedly called on the Government to include will the Home Secretary please answer a simple question: care workers alongside NHS medical staff with regard what do the Government have against care workers? to this year’s free visa extension following covid-19. By refusing to do so, Ministers have cost those frontline The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the workers thousands of pounds. Does the Home Secretary’s Home Department (Kevin Foster): We support our care decision to exclude social care workers from the health workers. Senior care workers will qualify under the new and care visa mean that they will also have to pay the points-based system. People will look at what has happened immigration surcharge up front? If so, why is it fair for over the past few months and surely they will not think them to have to find many more thousands of pounds that our vision for the social care sector should be to up front as well? carry on looking abroad to recruit at or near the minimum wage. We need to be prioritising jobs in this country. Kevin Foster: To be clear, the health and care visa will, by definition, include various areas in the care sector. Nick Thomas-Symonds: We all want more people As I touched on in response to the shadow Home training and entering the care sector at a decent wage, Secretary, our vision for the future of the care sector is but there are more than 100,000 vacancies in England about providing rewarding opportunities to UK-based alone today. Some of us in the House do not need workers, not basing it purely on immigration. 1251 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1252

[904636] Mark Fletcher (Bolsover) (Con): My right hon. The Government must not continue to drag their feet. Friend the Home Secretary will fondly remember her The Home Secretary said that she would bring forward visit to Clowne in my constituency during the election a timeline and an action plan for implementing the campaign and the popularity on the doorsteps of getting recommendations before recess. Is that still the case? more police on the streets in Derbyshire. Our police are fantastic but they need some new colleagues. Could she Priti Patel: Yes. please give us an update? [904638] Ben Everitt (Milton Keynes North) (Con): Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. On Violent crime is the scourge of too many communities. calls for more police officers in his constituency, he is Perhaps the Home Secretary will join me in paying equally as popular for his championing of more cops tribute to the Thames Valley police and crime commissioner, and for the excellent work he is doing. I can confirm that who has put together a violence reduction unit, which his county of Derbyshire will receive 85 officers as part works with the police and other partners to pilot early of the uplift, but 60 new officers have already been interventions into these offenders. recruited and they will be coming to his community very soon. Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I pay tribute to the police and crime commissioner for Thames [904640] Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) [V]: Valley and the emphasis that he has put, along with the According to a new report from Coram Children’s Legal police force, on violence reduction units and that multi- Centre, more than 900,000 eligible European economic agency way of working, so that young people and area children are thought to be living in the UK, fewer people across all communities can be supported to than half of whom have been granted status under the ensure that crime prevention, and steering people away settlement scheme. Of the estimated 9,000 EEA children from crime and criminality, is the focus. in the UK care system, the state—which has a duty of care to these vulnerable children—has secured status [904643] Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) for fewer than 500. What urgent action will the Home (SNP) [V]: When and why did the Government U-turn Secretary take on the back of these revelations, to on their commitment to a remote areas visa pilot? Who ensure that no vulnerable children are allowed to become did they consult before making that disastrous U-turn? undocumented? Kevin Foster: We have been very clear in our response Kevin Foster: We have already taken a range of actions. to the Migration Advisory Committee report, and we We are working with local authorities, which, as the will make sure that our new system serves the whole of hon. Gentleman has touched on, have the duty to make our United Kingdom. the application for those eligible under the EUSS. We have also confirmed that we will accept late applications [904639] Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con): Women’s from those who should have had an application made Community Matters in my constituency is an amazing on their behalf by their local council. We are also place. It helps women and families, including those in working with support groups, one of which I will visit urgent need, but it is rightly concerned about the availability virtually tomorrow. of refuges locally. There is one in Kendal; if it is full, families have to go out of the area, and often placements [904637] Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): fail. We passed a landmark piece of legislation in the No one should be fearful of practising their faith anywhere, Domestic Abuse Bill. Will the Home Secretary look but there have been too many attacks, both at home and again at the funding and availability of these services in abroad, on all sorts of places of worship. I thank the rural areas such as mine? Minister for her earlier answer to my hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) about doubling Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I the places of worship protective security fund to commend him for his work locally and for raising this £3.2 million, and for the Home Office’s consultation, point. If I may, I will write to him with the specifics of which recently closed. Does the Home Secretary believe what we can do in his local area to provide assistance that those measures, put together, will limit the chances and financial help. of future hate crime attacks in the UK? [904645] Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. This is Cleveland has the third highest violent crime rate in the valuable investment. What we have seen in terms of country and ranks sixth highest nationally for offences targeted attacks on places of worship is appalling; it is involving knives and sharp instruments. The most serious thoroughly unacceptable. It is that combined approach, violent offences are also increasing at a higher rate than along with law enforcement, that absolutely matters. We the national average, despite the excellent work by our want to see crimes of this nature absolutely decrease, new chief constable. The Government have granted and we want to stamp this out. £100 million to 18 police force areas and PCCs deemed to have a significant problem with serious violence. Why [904642] Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab): It is over has Cleveland not been included? three months since Wendy Williams’s Windrush lessons learned review was published. On 23 June, I asked the Priti Patel: If I may, I join the hon. Gentleman in Home Secretary when she would implement the review’s commending the work of his chief constable. Cleveland, sixth recommendation: to accurately teach British colonial as he will know, has had a difficult few years, not just history in the Home Office to tackle institutional racism. when it comes to policing, and he will know the outcomes The Windrush generation has waited too long for justice. of many of the inspectorate reports too. On the areas of 1253 Oral Answers 13 JULY 2020 Oral Answers 1254 violence that he mentions, of course we are constantly Bill last week in this House and we have been very clear looking at this whole area, and if there is more that we about the protections around children—that is absolutely can do to tackle serious violent crime we will absolutely right. There are many other measures that we have in do that. place, and I would be very happy to write to her about that. [904641] Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con): My right hon. Friend will know that the Peace Foundation [904654] Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab): Our is globally renowned for its work in supporting victims commitment to providing sanctuary to those fleeing of terror incidents, most recently those affected by the war, famine and disease is important to many across Reading attacks. Its work is now at risk because of the UK, and especially in my constituency. At the end changes to its funding. Will the Home Secretary come of the transition period, the UK will leave the Dublin to Warrington and meet the team there, so that she can system, risking the loss of an important safe route to understand more about the great work that they do? reunification for families, so will the Home Secretary amend the refugee family reunion rules to allow more Priti Patel: First, let me commend my hon. Friend for families to reunite safely here in Britain? championing the work of the Peace Foundation. He has been in extensive dialogue with us on this, but he is right Kevin Foster: We set out clearly, during the passage of to point to the work that it does when it comes to the Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU victims of terror. I would be very happy to meet him Withdrawal) Bill recently, our plan to look at negotiating and to come to Warrington and have further discussions a proper agreement with the European Union for family about this. reunification based on the fantastic record that we have, which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary outlined [904644] Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): earlier. Shockingly, in Kidsgrove and Talke, local police officers are unable to access the outdated CCTV due to its being Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con): Residents in Paston, stationed in a local high street store. I was pleased when Werrington and other parts of Peterborough have had residents supported my plan to have the Labour-run to endure unauthorised encampments on public land and Kidsgrove Town Council use its extensive funds for a open spaces for many years. Rubbish, industrial waste CCTV upgrade. Will my right hon. Friend back my and even human waste has been left behind, costing plan, call for an end to the dither and delay and demand many thousands of pounds to clear up. Does my right that Kidsgrove Town Council backs our brave Staffordshire hon. Friend agree that that is unacceptable and will she police officers? bring forward legislation to deal with it as soon as possible? Priti Patel: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We must end the dither and delay, as he outlined, and I Priti Patel: I think my hon. Friend knows my views on commend him for championing CCTV to make sure this subject matter quite well, having campaigned with that the local council steps up and does the right thing. I him. I absolutely agree with him: it is thoroughly will give him every backing that he needs. unacceptable. He will have to wait until the autumn session of Parliament, but we will be bringing forward [904649] Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): It is legislation covering that very issue. clear that child victims of domestic abuse who do not enter a refuge often require extra support, which is Mr Speaker: In order to allow the safe exit of hon. regularly being overlooked. Will the Home Secretary Members participating in this item of business and the confirm what specific resources are available to those safe arrival of those participating in the next, I briefly children to ensure that their needs are met? suspend the House. Priti Patel: If the hon. Lady has specifics that she would like to raise with me, I can come back to her on 3.32 pm the details for children. We passed the Domestic Abuse Sitting suspended. 1255 13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1256

Sale of Arms: War in Yemen Thirdly, the Government say they have found no patterns of civilian infrastructure being targeted. Can 3.36 pm the Minister therefore explain why, for 17 months at the start of the war, Saudi planes systematically destroyed Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) Yemen’s means of food production, bombing farmland, (Lab) (Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State markets, milk plants and fishing boats? If that is not a for International Trade if she will make a statement on pattern, what is? her decision to resume the sale of arms to the Saudi-led Fourthly, as well as deliberate targeting, the Minister coalition for use in the war in Yemen. will know that the indiscriminate bombing of civilian The Minister for Trade Policy (Greg Hands): The areas is in itself a war crime, but the Government say Secretary of State has retaken the licensing decisions, as the Saudis could not have meant to break international required by the Court of Appeal. All existing and new law because their violations applications for Saudi Arabia for possible use in the conflict “occurred at different times, in different circumstances and for in Yemen will be assessed against the revised methodology, different reasons.”—[Official Report, 7 July 2020; Vol. 678, c. 339WS.] which considers whether there is a clear risk that the Does the Minister not agree that that sounds like the equipment might be used in the commission of a serious very definition of the word “indiscriminate”? violation of international humanitarian law. Fifthly, the Government have concluded that Saudi The revised methodology was developed to address Arabia has both the intent and capacity to comply with the Court of Appeal’sjudgment. It considers all allegations international law, but if that is the case, will the Minister that are assessed as likely to have occurred and that explain the cause of the occasions on which it has failed have been caused by fixed-wing aircraft, reflecting the to do that? factual circumstances that the court proceedings concerned. Finally, it would help all of us to understand the It remains the case, however, that it can be extremely Government’s decision if they would agree to publish difficult to reach firm conclusions as to whether specific the full assessment that underpinned it, including the incidentsviolatetheprinciplesof internationalhumanitarian analysis of each so-called isolated incident. If the Minister law. Therefore, where an incident is assessed as a possible believes this decision is not just moral and lawful but breach, it is regarded for the purposes of the relevant correct, then surely he has nothing to fear from publishing analysis as if there were breaches of IHL. I emphasise that assessment and letting us all decide for ourselves. that that analysis is just one part of the assessment. In retaking these decisions, the Secretary of State has Greg Hands: I thank the right hon. Lady for her considered the full range of information available to the questions, and start by saying that we absolutely share Government. Some of that information is necessarily her concern about the humanitarian tragedy in Yemen, sensitive and confidential. I am therefore not able to go which is why the UK is actively engaged in seeking into detail about individual assessments. The crucial further diplomatic solutions. Let me try to deal with her point is that we have assessed that there were a small questions, as far as I am able, as some of the matters are number of incidents that have been treated, for the within the competence of the Foreign, Commonwealth purposes of this analysis, as violations of international and Development Office and the Ministry of Defence. humanitarian law. However, these were isolated incidents Ministers have of course not been wrong in their and our analysis shows that Saudi Arabia has a genuine assessment; if they had been wrong, they would have intent and the capacity to comply with international come to the Dispatch Box. The consolidated criteria humanitarian law and the specific commitments it has have been used in all the assessments of the licences. made. The number of incidents is an operational question; the It is on that basis that the Secretary of State has role of the Department for International Trade is in assessed that there is not a clear risk that the export of assessing the consolidated criteria. arms and military equipment to Saudi Arabia might be The right hon. Lady talked about a number of incidents used in the commission of a serious violation of over different times and in different ways. The assessment international humanitarian law. was that there is no pattern in the behaviour of Saudi Arabia, and that these were isolated incidents over some Emily Thornberry: Thank you, Mr Speaker,for granting considerable time and also at different times. this urgent question, although I am sorry the Secretary of State cannot be dragged here to explain her own The right hon. Lady mentioned the intention and decisions. There is certainly much explaining to do. In capacity to comply and publish the full assessment of my limited time, I have five questions for the Minister the various incidents and asked for a full analysis of each and one specific request. incident. It is worth saying—as you, Mr Speaker, will certainly understand—that assessments of the different First, we welcome the Secretary of State’s assessment incidents that took place in Yemen will often be informed of possible violations of international law in Yemen, by confidential information that comes to the Government but can the Minister explain why his brother Ministers not necessarily from Saudi Arabia; it would not be have been telling the House for the last five years that appropriate for us to publish those assessments. What such an assessment was impossible for Britain to make, we have published, however, are the consolidated criteria and that it could be made only by Saudi Arabia itself? and the quarterly lists of each licence that has been Were those Ministers simply wrong? granted. Secondly, the Secretary of State has concluded that where international law was broken in Yemen these Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con): The were “isolated incidents”. Can the Minister tell us how many Minister knows that I am a longstanding critic of the such incidents were identified, so that we can understand policies towards Yemen of the Saudi coalition, which how they define the word “isolated”? the British Government continue to support, but it is 1257 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1258

[Mr Andrew Mitchell] In terms of the number and type of incidents, I am not at liberty to publish that, given the confidential nature my purpose today not to call for an arms embargo, but of a lot of the information involved. However, what rather to ensure that in granting these contentious licences I can say is that the UK has one of the strongest arms UK arms export licensing regime members continue to control regimes in the world, we use the consolidated benefit from DFID’s expertise once that Department is EU and national criteria and we are now using the dismantled. DFID officials sit on the export licensing revised methodology to come to these decisions that we Committee, and I would like the Minister’s reassurance are happy with. to the House that that DFID DNA, which is very important to making these decisions in the licensing Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab): I, too, am Committee, will still be available. disappointed that the Secretary of State is not here this afternoon to answer this urgent question herself. She Greg Hands: I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend for based her decision on a detailed assessment of all the his long time as Secretary of State for International alleged incidents where international humanitarian law Development and the exceptionally good work that he has been violated in Yemen, so let me ask the question did over a considerable time, when we were in opposition again: will the Minister ask his boss to publish that and in government, and particularly the strong voice assessment, so that the people of the UK can see the that he has had in relation to the conflict. evidence and be able to judge whether the Secretary of The part of my right hon. Friend’s question about the State is right simply to dismiss those violations as Committees on Arms Export Controls is properly a matter isolated? for the Committee, under the chairmanship of my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier). Greg Hands: The incidents or the allegations are not However, he has said that the International Development being dismissed, but we are clear that we need to follow Committee will continue to take part in its public sessions a sensible set of criteria and that is why we have the for as long as that Committee continues in existence. consolidated criteria in place to assess export licences On my right hon. Friend’s other point about DFID going forward. But I return to what I said earlier: it officials, the Government are obviously very keen that would not be appropriate for the Government to publish DFID and international development expertise in the their findings in relation to incidents in Yemen in the region continues to be recognised and utilised. past. Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) [V]: This UK Miss Sarah Dines (Derbyshire Dales) (Con): Can the Government are increasingly chaotic and incoherent. Minister reassure the House that the Government can Last week, the Foreign Secretary announced a new still, if necessary, review, suspend or revoke licences? sanctions regime, claiming that the UK will be a stronger force for good, while the International Trade Secretary Greg Hands: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. resumed arms sales to Saudi Arabia, demonstrating that She is absolutely right. Licences can be reviewed or profit comes before peace. The international community, revoked in line with the consolidated criteria. That is our allies and the UN have been clear that the arms trade the basis on which arms control works in this country to Saudi Arabia should be stopped due to the mounting and always has done under successive Governments. evidence of what UN experts have described as “potential war crimes” and widespread and systematic strikes on Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): The civilian targets. Yemen has also been described as “hanging Minister says that the Government have a very strong arms by a thread”, with more than 1 million covid infections. control system, but back in September last year, he will With the UN ascribing tens of thousands of civilian recall that the Government were guilty of granting 14— deaths to the Saudi military, how can the Secretary of or was it 20?—unlawful arms export licences. It does seem State tell the UK with any certainty that there is not a that last week’s announcement, a day after the Magnitsky clear risk of serious violations in exporting arms, describing sanctions were imposed, was incredibly cynical. Is that previous violations as merely “isolated incidents”? Can not the case? the Minister tell us how many isolated incidents there are? Who collated this evidence? Will he explain why the Greg Hands: No, it is not the case. I think the hon. UK is going against the international community? Gentleman refers in his question to the Secretary of Surely these actions remove any legitimacy that the UK State apologising to the House, and indeed to the Government can be a stronger force for good in the Court, for the inadvertent breaches of the Court judgment world. last June. However, we are talking today about a forward- looking way of doing this, using the revised methodology Greg Hands: First, I strongly refute the allegation based on the consolidated criteria. that the UK Government are not a strong voice for good in the world. That is absolutely our mission right Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con): Will my right hon. the way across the Government. The hon. Gentleman Friend please explain to the House why there has been a asked about the announcement by the Foreign Secretary delay in reaching this decision? last week in relation to sanctions on individuals. I think that is a separate matter, but we have been absolutely Greg Hands: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. clear to condemn the attack on Mr Khashoggi the year It was vital that the Government got this right first time before last and to make sure we have a robust regime of with a comprehensive assessment. The Court judgment human rights sanctions coming from the original Magnitsky last year was a very serious matter, and it was absolutely law, which my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary right that we took the time to have a comprehensive was one of the originators of, and with which I was assessment process in accordance with the legal approach involved at the time. identified by the Court of Appeal last June. 1259 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1260

Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): I thank my Like many people listening today, I am astonished that right hon. Friend for his comments so far. In any arms the Minister has said that the global human rights export regime, it is important that we not only operate sanctions regime is a separate matter from selling arms on a principled basis but respond rapidly to global to the brutal Saudi regime. Can he tell me how this circumstances that often change at short notice. Can he Government can, in all good conscience, continue to reassure me and the House that our regime is adaptable export weapons to Saudi Arabia when we know that and responsive, and that it can deal with changing there is a risk that they may be used in Yemen, after circumstances? 17,640 civilian casualties have been documented in that country? Is it simply a case of profit before Yemeni Greg Hands: Yes, I can. We work very closely with lives? colleagues in the Ministry of Defence, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for Greg Hands: The process that is with me is to use the International Development to make sure we are aware consolidated criteria. That is why we have developed a of all changes in policy and all uses of military weapons revised methodology in respect of all the allegations around the world, and to make sure that that feeds which it is assessed are likely to have occurred and to through into our ability to change policy and, if necessary, have been caused by fixed-wing aircraft. Each of those revoke a licence. allegations has been subject to detailed analysis by Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab): Saudi state media reported reference to the relevant principles of international that the Secretary of State for Defence called Saudi humanitarian law. An evaluation has been made and it Ministers last week after the announcement of sanctions has been applied to all credible incidents of concern of against the murderers of Jamal Khashoggi and reassured which we are aware. Importantly,our revised methodology them of the Government’s support on the issue of arms will allow us to make these decisions going forward. exports. Can the Minister explain now why his colleague felt that that was his job and why he chose to keep that Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con) [V]: The enduring call secret? alliance with Saudi Arabia is vital to regional security and bolsters the ability of the United Kingdom and our Greg Hands: Mr Speaker, you will know that it is the allies to help to police the region. The UK has licensed policy of successive Governments not to comment on more than £5.3 billion of arms to Saudi Arabia since calls or conversations between Government Ministers 2015, and that has secured thousands of jobs across the and their opposite numbers, even including if the call United Kingdom, including in Wakefield. Does the itself took place, so I am not going to comment on Minister agree that if we maintain arms sales to our those matters. What I will say is that there is a very, very Saudi allies, the whole UK prospers? important multi-faceted relationship with Saudi Arabia, which I have already talked about, which must be Greg Hands: It is very important that we have a broad considered in the round. and deep relationship covering matters such as trade, defence, security,energy and regional issues. It is important Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con): Have my that the UK maintains that relationship overall. It does right hon. Friends the International Trade Secretary not prevent us from being critical, as we have been on and the Foreign Secretary raised the issue of international occasions, in relation to human rights. humanitarian law compliance with Saudi Arabia and the others in the coalition? Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): Greg Hands: Yes, we have. We do that on a regular As is well documented, the Government of Saudi Arabia basis to make sure, as part of our wider work in the are indiscriminate in their use of the death penalty, region, that UK foreign policy goals are achieved. including against minors. In recent years they have detained without trial members of their own royal Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: family, and just recently they were found at the World There is a difference between what is permissible and Trade Organisation to be responsible for sports piracy what is right. Since the bombing of Yemen commenced through the company beoutQ. What makes the Minister in March 2015, £5.3 billion-worth of export licences think that the Saudi Government will have any regard have been issued to Saudi Arabia, of which £2.5 billion for the rules of international law? Does he not agree have related to bombs, missiles and other types of that our new policy in relation to China would be seen ordnance. So what does the Secretary of State have to in a much better light if we were seen to hold Saudi hide in not publishing the evidence on which to resume Arabia to the same standards? licensing arms and the trade in these deadly weapons? Greg Hands: I am not going to comment on China, Greg Hands: I think I have already laid out to the because I think it is not quite within the scope of the House why these reports are not published: a lot are based urgent question. At all times, the UK campaigns actively on confidential information, which it would not be in its foreign policy for the abolition of the death in the national interest for us to disclose. What we can penalty. The right hon. Gentleman and I know that; he say is that the incidents assessed to have been possible served in the Government not so long ago, and he will violations of international humanitarian law occurred know that that is an important pillar of our foreign at different times, in different circumstances and for policy. These matters do not prevent us from having a different reasons. The conclusion was that they were good overall relationship with as many countries around isolated incidents. On that basis, we believe there is not the world as we reasonably can, where it is in the a clear risk that the export of arms and military equipment national interest to do so. I will look into the WTO to Saudi Arabia might be used in the commission of a complaint and write to him. serious violation of international humanitarian law. 1261 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1262

James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): Could the Minister is not a pattern. We are content with this regime going please outline the importance with which the UK regards forward and about sticking to our consolidated criteria. Saudi Arabia as a diplomatic and trading partner in the That is absolutely the proper way to be doing this. middle east? Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con): Will the Minister Greg Hands: I thank my hon. Friend for that question. provide an assurance to the House that the Department Saudi Arabia is an important diplomatic and trading will continue to investigate every possible violation of partner for this country. That has been the case for international humanitarian law in the Yemen conflict many decades under successive Governments. by coalition forces?

Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: A Greg Hands: My hon. Friend raises a good question. number of my constituents in Vauxhall have written to It is worth noting, again, that the investigation process me about their concerns about the devastating conflict is principally a matter for the Foreign and Commonwealth in Yemen. We must acknowledge and speak out about Office and the Ministry of Defence, which track allegations the immense human cost of this war. It is one of the of incidents. However, the Government take their export largest humanitarian crises in the world and we know responsibilities seriously and assess all export licences that thousands of Yemeni civilians have been killed, in accordance with the strict licensing criteria. We will including women and children. Now 20 million people not issue any export licences where to do so would be face food insecurity and 10 million are at risk of famine. inconsistent with the consolidated criteria. That suffering is unimaginable. Weknow that the coalition has conducted numerous and indiscriminate air strikes, Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: Given in violation of the laws of wars, using munitions sold by that the United Nations Refugee Agency reports that, the US, the United Kingdom and others. How can the over the past five years, more than 3.5 million people in Minister be confident that the arms sold by the UK will Yemen have been displaced as a direct result of the civil not be used in similar attacks? war there, the Minister will understand the concern about the resumption of arms sales. He tells us that he cannot Greg Hands: That is exactly why we have the arms share with us the specific details on which the Government control and export licence regime in place, properly have made the assessment to resume those sales, but he using the consolidated criteria to make those assessments. could set out for us what he means by the “genuine intent” In terms of what anybody else may do in the region, the that he believes is behind the Saudi Arabian decision on hon. Lady mentioned the United States. That is very human rights, and what might change that. Will he much a matter for the United States Government. do so?

Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) [V]: The excellent Greg Hands: I have already outlined how, after looking Minister seems quite sure that it is right to export at incidents and the assessment of them, we are confident these arms at the moment and I have no problem that there is not a pattern in those previous incidents. I with that, but as my hon. Friends the Members for absolutely share the hon. Lady’s concern about the Derbyshire Dales (Miss Dines) and for Burnley (Antony appalling humanitarian situation in Yemen. However, Higginbotham) said. this needs to be kept under review. based on those incidents, we do not believe that there The Minister said that that will happen. Can he give the has been a pattern there. Therefore, as long as we stick House a bit more detail: on a day-to-day or month-to- to our consolidated criteria and continue our assessment month basis, how does that review take place? of incidents, that is absolutely the right decision for the UK Government to make. Greg Hands: That is a good question. Obviously, we operate in an overall policy framework called the Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): I consolidated criteria. Each individual licence application am proud that so many young people in my constituency is in itself a separate decision, based on those consolidated have raised the situation in Yemen with me. Saudi criteria. We follow those criteria. Those decisions can Arabia itself is a young country, with half its population be made on a daily basis—for each individual export under the age of 25. Will the Minister assure me that he licence that comes in—by Ministers. will continue to raise human rights with his counterparts?

Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) [V]: The Minister really Greg Hands: Yes, we do. My right hon. Friend the is missing an opportunity to reassure the House. I am Foreign Secretary and his team do so on a regular basis entirely unpersuaded that there is not a risk that these with Saudi Arabia and with other partners all the way armaments will be used against civilians. Oxfam, a around the world. We are immensely proud of the record deeply credible organisation, has had three installations that we have as a Government and as a country of attacked, in Sa’ada, Al-Hamazat and Abs, over the past promoting human rights around the world. That was few years. Have they been investigated by the joint absolutely the basis of the statement made by the incidents assessments team? If not, why not, and how Foreign Secretary in this place just last week. on earth can the Minister possibly pretend that this is a credible statement? Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): The Secretary of State has announced that new arms sale to Saudi will Greg Hands: As I have said before, the incidents that commence, claiming that international humanitarian have been assessed as possible violations of international law had only been violated in “isolated incidents”. The humanitarian law have been looked at, but we are Minister has said that he is not at liberty to disclose the confident that they occurred at different times, in different number of incidents but, this morning, in response to circumstances and for different reasons. Therefore, there my written question, the Government revealed that the 1263 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1264

Ministry of Defence’s own database records 516 potential Greg Hands: My hon. Friend has expertise in this violations of international humanitarian law since the area. He will know that those are matters for the Foreign war in Yemen began in 2015. In the light of that, will and Commonwealth Office, and I am sure he is making the Minister stand by the Secretary of State’s claim that representations to it. I will certainly make those violations of international laware only “isolated incidents”, representations. He will know that the Government are or will the Government finally do the right thing and involved considerably on the diplomatic front to seek a stop these arms sales? resolution of the conflict in the Yemen.

Greg Hands: As I pointed out earlier, all potential Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): More incidents must, for these purposes, be treated as actual than five years of death and destruction in Yemen has violations of international humanitarian law. I am not created the world’s worst humanitarian crisis, and the at liberty to comment on whatever numbers the hon. Yemeni people are rightly looking to us to show compassion Lady may have in front of her, but it is clear that all and leadership. Despite compelling evidence that the potential incidents must be treated as actual incidents Saudi-led coalition has violated international humanitarian for the purposes of putting forward the consolidated law, a day after the Government finally held Saudi Arabia criteria. accountable for the brutal murder of Jamal Khashoggi, they announced the resumption of arms sales for use in Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con): The the war in Yemen. Can the Minister see that this all makes announcement last week was welcomed by hundreds of the Government’s avowed concern for human rights my constituents who work at the BAE plant in the look inconsistent, if not downright hypocritical? Fylde, which assembles the Hawk and Typhoon aircraft, Greg Hands: No, I do not agree with that at all. I have and I would like to put on record my support for the already answered the question on the relationship between decision to resume the granting of export licences. the announcement last week, which concerns individuals’ Saudi Arabia is one of our key strategic partners, and human rights, and this announcement in relation to the rightly so. Can my right hon. Friend reassure the House consolidated criteria for export controls. that the Government will continue to work closely with the Saudi Government on all security and military Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): issues and that his Department will continue to explore The right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury investment and trade opportunities with the kingdom (Emily Thornberry) is right to ask her urgent question. that will benefit jobs and economic growth in the UK? None of us wants to add to the awful situation in Yemen. Paris is working hard with Berlin to finesse the Greg Hands: My hon. Friend raises a good point in German ban on German componentry in French arms relation to jobs in the north-west at BAE Systems. I was exports. France has a more questionable approach to getting a little bit worried about the Opposition’sapproach the consolidated criteria than this country does, and its to this. I am going to read out a quote: arms exports are skyrocketing. What are we to do about “we have a brilliant arms industry in the United Kingdom, and I this? I fear that the action urged by the right hon. Lady have no problem with arms sales to other countries, as long as will have the effect of exporting jobs from her constituency they are properly controlled”—[Official Report, House of Lords, and mine to France—a country with a far more 10 July 2020; Vol. 804, c. 1346.] questionable approach to the consolidated criteria—and I agree with that—and it was from the Labour spokesman will have no effect whatsoever on the welfare of people in the House of Lords at a similar urgent question on in Yemen. Friday. I think we can all agree that BAE Systems and others in this field do a great job for the UK overall. Greg Hands: My right hon. Friend may well be right, but it is important from our perspective to make sure Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP): The United Nations that the UK does adhere to and follow the consolidated has verified that, since 2015, at least 7,700 Yemeni criteria. That is absolutely the basis of our policy in this civilians have been killed, with 60% due to bombing area: we must stick rigidly to assessments based on the raids by the Saudi-led coalition. The Committees on consolidated criteria. Arms Export Controls have recently been re-established. John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab): The Can the Minister give the House an assurance that, if Government lost the Appeal Court case, then admitted that Committee were to choose to investigate British that they had contravened the instructions given by the arms sales that are leading to arms reaching the Saudi-led Appeal Court, then abandoned their own appeal to the coalition, his Department will co-operate fully? Supreme Court, and have now decided, after abandoning the Court case, that they are going to resume arms Greg Hands: Our Department always co-operates exports. Could not the Minister at least agree to publish with Select Committees. If the hon. Gentleman’s point the reasons for the resumption of issuing licences, with is that that Committee should follow a particular course, sensitive parts either taken out or redacted? he needs to speak to its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest (Mark Garnier). I suggest that Greg Hands: We have published the reasons why we he makes his representations to the Chair. are doing the policy that we are doing. We published that in the form of a written ministerial statement to the John Howell (Henley) (Con): How will this sort of House of Commons last week, and actually that is the action against Saudi Arabia achieve reciprocity in the subject today. On the hon. Member’s wider point about Yemen? There are two sides to this conflict. One is led why we have withdrawn the appeal, we do not think the by the Houthis and their backers, Iran, and we have no appeal is necessary any more. We have in place the revised examples of how to control the arms sales that go to methodology, and we are putting in place the process to them. withdraw the appeal. 1265 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen13 JULY 2020 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 1266

Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP): Last week, Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I thank the Foreign Secretary revealed a new and seemingly my right hon. Friend for explaining with great care the ethical dimension to the UK’s foreign policy, yet within strict criteria applied in all export licence cases. Can he 48 hours we were back selling arms to Saudi Arabia and update the House on the backlog of export licences? this Government were refusing to take action against How quickly and carefully can they be reviewed? their friends in Bahrain who are about to execute two more political prisoners. Is it not the truth that it is Greg Hands: Yes, there is a backlog, and it will take a business as usual for any regime—however brutal, however few months to clear it. There are a few hundred applications undemocratic—as long as its pockets are deep enough —something of that magnitude. With the policy we and this Government think there is something to be launched last week, however, we will now begin to clear gained? Is that not the squalid truth? that backlog.

Greg Hands: No, it is not. Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ Co-op): The Government’s policy seems to be one of abject hypocrisy.The Minister has made a false distinction Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) [V]: The between the sanctions on individuals and wider policy, humanitarian situation in Yemen is, of course, a proxy which is simply not possible. Let me give him one example. war between the Saudi Arabian-led coalition and the General Ahmed al-Asiri was listed on the Foreign Iranians and their proxies, with the innocent civilians in Secretary’s sanctions list last week for his involvement the middle of it. What efforts is my right hon. Friend in the unlawful killing of Jamal Khashoggi and for making to use his Department’s capability on trade to commissioning the team that went to assassinate him. encourage these parties to come to the table and negotiate That is the same man who came to this House, this a political settlement under which Yemen can become a building, on 29 March 2017 to justify to me and many peaceful place for innocent civilians to live in once other Members the Saudi actions in Yemen, including again? the use of British military support. How can it be that we are sanctioning this individual for his unlawful actions Greg Hands: I thank my hon. Friend for his question. and yet he was at the heart of the war in Yemen? He has great expertise on the region and in these matters. The UK is involved right the way across Government Greg Hands: I do not have in front of me information —it is a whole-of-Government effort—to make sure about individuals in any country who are subject to a that we seek a diplomatic solution in the region. If the sanctions regime, but criteria 2c—of the criteria we Department for International Trade can play a role in follow to assess export licences—includes the that, we certainly will—and we certainly are. On our “clear risk the equipment being exported might be used in the relationship with Iran, it is very important that Iran serious violation of international humanitarian law”. also complies, particularly in relation to trade matters, Those are the criteria we follow when assessing export with the sanctions regime and the World Trade licences. Organisation. Mr Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con): Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): This decision reduces I welcome the Secretary of State’s statement last week. the bold statements made last week by the Government Would my right hon. Friend elaborate on how the on human rights and the Magnitsky sanctions to just revised methodology differs from its predecessor? mere finger-wagging. If that is not correct, to restore the Government’s credibility on this issue, they must Greg Hands: The revised methodology takes into publish the evidence on which they based their decisions account all the decisions by the Court of Appeal. Were that these are just mere isolated incidents. these historic incidents part of a pattern? Even if we could not answer in every incident, we should at least attempt Greg Hands: First, I could just say to the hon. Gentleman to do so. That is the question the revised methodology that I refer him to the answer I gave earlier: I have already is seeking to answer—and I believe does answer—so given repeatedly the reason why we are not publishing that we can move forward. the reports on any incidents. Secondly,on the international human rights violations regime launched last week by Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD): The Saudis the Foreign Secretary, we think that new sanctions are currently taking part in the action in Yemen as part regime will give the UK a powerful new tool to hold to of a coalition. They are also part of a coalition involved account those involved in serious human rights violations in the blockade of Qatar. That is not currently a military or abuses. action, but what guarantees do the Government have that arms sold to the Saudis for use in Yemen will not be used against another of our allies elsewhere in the Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): Can middle east? the Minister provide true clarity about the total value exported to Saudi Arabia, including arms traded through Greg Hands: I am not aware of there being any open licences, and will he provide the number for how conflict at the moment in that space, but clearly we look much the UK has profited from the conflict since the at these matters as part of the criteria against which we war began? assess export licences.

Greg Hands: We publish quarterly the list of licences Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): I have great affection granted. I would suggest that the hon. Member look at for Yemen, having lived there for three years, so after that list. the last massacre of innocents, I managed to get myself 1267 Sale of Arms: War in Yemen 13 JULY 2020 1268 to Riyadh and went to the combined air operations EU Exit: End of Transition Period centre to examine exactly what was going on. I have to say, having spoken to the air controllers, which included Royal Air Force people, I was most impressed by their 4.24 pm orders for opening fire. I spoke to the pilots, and they The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister do not open fire unless they are guaranteed there are no for the Cabinet Office (Michael Gove): With permission, innocents underneath. I presume these factors are taken Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on our into account. preparations for the end of the transition period. Greg Hands: My hon. Friend also has great expertise Before I do, may I place on record my thanks—and, I in this area, particularly in relation to military operations. am sure, those of the whole House—for the 20 years of What may or may not be happening in Yemen is of course service that Dave Prentis, the general secretary of Unison, taken into account in the assessments done by the Ministry has given? Mr Prentis announced today that he will be of Defence and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. standing down at the end of this year. He has been an exemplary trade union leader. We have all been reminded Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP) [V]: As Amnesty during the covid pandemic of how much we depend on International pointed out in March: the public sector workers he speaks up for. I would like “The conflict in Yemen shows no real signs of abating as it to extend my best wishes to him on his retirement. enters its sixth year”. On 31 January this year, the United Kingdom left the This will result in even more civilian casualties, both as European Union, and last month we confirmed to our a direct and indirect result of the conflict. After the UK European Union partners that there would be no extension Government’s arms export policy to Saudi Arabia was of the transition period beyond 31 December. My found to be unlawful last year, can the Minister explain counterpart as co-chair of the Joint Committee confirmed how continued UK arms sales for potential use in this that this marked “a definite conclusion” to the matter, theatre can possibly help prevent the loss of yet more and the deadline for extension has now passed. As a innocent Yemeni lives? consequence, from 1 January 2021 we will embark on the next chapter in our history as a fully independent Greg Hands: Wehave,of course,looked at the assessment United Kingdom. With control of our economy, we can of the previous incidents, and I have already described continue to put in place the right measures for covid how those incidents must be assessed as having taken recovery. With control over the money that we send to place,even if this is still questionable or in any way disputed, Brussels, we can spend it on our priorities—investing in as part of that process. We are confident that we now the NHS, spreading opportunity more equally across have the right system in place to make sure that there is the UK, and strengthening our Union. We are also able not a clear risk that the export of arms and military to build a trading relationship with our neighbours in equipment to Saudi Arabia might be used in the commission Europe that serves all our interests, while also developing of a serious violation of international humanitarian new economic partnerships across the world, including law. opportunities for new and better trade deals with the Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) [V]: UK taxpayers provide US, Japan, New Zealand, Australia and many other humanitarian aid to Yemen. Now, we are to supply even nations. more arms to the Saudis. What does that say about The deal the Prime Minister struck last year, which competition between UK trade policy and UK aid the country backed in the general election, means that policy? we can look forward with confidence to the end of the transition period on 31 December, but of course there is Greg Hands: The Department for International Trade, still work to do to prepare. Regardless of the outcome the Department for International Development and the of negotiations with the EU over our future relationship, Foreign and Commonwealth Office work very closely whether or not we have a Canada-style deal or an together, and I do not think it says anything but that we Australian model, we will be leaving the single market are involved in different activities but with the same and the customs union. This will herald changes, and objective of making sure that UK interests abroad are significant opportunities, for which we all need to prepare— looked after; that we propagate a strong regime on Government, business and individual citizens. international human rights protections; that we foster So I am announcing today two significant new initiatives trade, including with countries such as Saudi Arabia, in that will bring financial support, further clarity, and the region; and that we make sure that we do so with the reassurance for business and citizens. We are launching national interest at the forefront. a major new public information campaign to make sure Mr Speaker: In order to allow the safe exit of hon. that everyone has the facts they need about the actions Members participating in this item of business and the that we all need to take in order to be ready. We are also safe arrival of those participating in the next, I am releasing for the first time an operating model for the suspending the House for three minutes. border that will benefit importers and exporters, and provide information to hauliers, shippers, freight companies 4.21 pm and our customs intermediaries. This comprehensive Sitting suspended. guidance covers every processing system used across all Government Departments and has been developed after extensive consultation with industry partners, operators and, of course, the devolved Administrations. Together with the additional £705 million package of funding for border infrastructure, extra jobs and better technology, this will help to ensure that our new borders will be 1269 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1270

[Michael Gove] It is important to note that, as the document makes clear, the border operating model does not cover matters ready when the UK takes back control on January. relating specifically to the Northern Ireland protocol. I It will assist the smooth movement of goods, and it will reassure the House that guidance specific to Northern also help us to lay the foundations for the world’s most Ireland will be published in the coming weeks and on an effective border by 2025, making our country more ongoing basis throughout the transition period. secure and our citizens safer. With autonomy comes the freedom to be practical Turning to the detail of these initiatives, the and pragmatic in implementation, which is why, in the public information campaign—“The UK’s new start: light of coronavirus and to give business and industry let’s get going”—will run in the four home nations and more time to adjust, we announced last month that internationally, encouraging us all to play our part in border controls would be introduced in three stages up preparing for change. The campaign will be supplemented to 1 July 2021. In the first phase, from January 2021, by the deployment of experts in the field, giving one-to-one traders importing standard goods will need to prepare support to businesses and their supply chains to ensure for basic customs requirements. Full customs declarations that they have made arrangements that will help to keep will be needed for controlled and excise goods—such as their operations running efficiently. alcohol and tobacco products—but people importing From January 2021, in order to fulfil the import standard goods will have up to six months to make their process, traders will need to have a GB economic operators declaration and to pay tariffs. Traders moving goods registration and identification, or EORI, number before using the common transit convention will need to follow moving their goods. They will need to have the commodity all the transit procedures. codes of their goods, which will be needed to make a In the second phase, from April 2021, we will require customs declaration and, of course, to calculate duties all products of animal origin, regulated plants and on an import. They will need to know the customs values plant products to have pre-notification and the relevant of their goods, the rules of which are based on the health documentation. Any physical checks will continue World Trade Organisation valuation agreement. They to be conducted at the point of destination. will also need to have considered whether they are able In the third and final phase, from July 2021, traders to use, and would benefit from using, any of the available moving all goods will have to make full customs declarations simplifications or facilitations, including deferring customs at the point of importation and, of course, pay relevant declarations for standard goods. Traders who choose tariffs. Checks for animals, plants and their products not to defer their customs declarations will also need to will take place at border control posts in Great Britain. ensure that they have considered how they will make When we announced our approach to controls last those declarations to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs month, we also confirmed that we would be building systems, and, of course, whether or not they will use an new border facilities in Great Britain to carry out the intermediary.From January 2021, traders who are exporting required checks, as well as providing targeted support goods to the EU will need to make export declarations to ports to build new infrastructure. The £705 million and ensure that they have the right certificates and funding injection that we announced yesterday is on top licences required for entry. While there is still work to of an already announced £84 million grant to ensure do, substantial progress has been made to ensure that sufficient capacity in the customs intermediary sector. we all fulfil our promise to the British people and take That money will be used to do just that: to prepare our back control. border infrastructure for all the changes by improving The freedom to control our own borders brings many and developing IT systems, recruiting more personnel benefits. Our plans mean that we can introduce a migration and building new border posts. policy that ensures that we are open to the world’s best The actions that we are taking today are an important talent, and my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary step towards readiness for the new opportunities that has set out further details of that today.A new,points-based Brexit can bring. It is time for our new start—time for immigration system will ensure that we can attract the us to embrace a new global destiny—and therefore I scientists, innovators and entrepreneurs who can power commend the statement to the House. future economic growth. It will also help us to ensure that our NHS attracts the very best professionals from around the world to our hospitals. The new technology 4.33 pm that we are introducing will allow us to monitor with far Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): I thank the Minister greater precision exactly who and what is coming into for advance sight of his statement. I associate myself with and out of our country, enabling us to deal more his comments about Dave Prentis, a great trade union effectively with organised crime and other threats. leader who is always fighting for a better deal for public Control of our borders also means that we can choose sector workers. the right trade and commercial policies for this country. It is vital that businesses and jobs are supported and The border operating model that we have published that the oven-ready deal that the country was promised today provides clarity about the end-to-end journey of is delivered on this year, yet frankly many of us are goods on the move between Great Britain and the EU, worried about whether the oven was even turned on. including information about controlled goods and the Alarm bells have been ringing in the Cabinet this past new Government systems that will support future trade. week, expressed by the Secretary of State for International I place on record the Government’s gratitude to the Trade in her extraordinary letter to the Minister and the border sector for the practical knowledge, enthusiasm Chancellor of the Exchequer written on 8 July. The letter and expertise it has brought to the development of the presents a picture of chaos, complacency and confusion operating model, which is the result of extensive consultation right at the top of government. Let me highlight to the and collaboration. House those concerns. 1271 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1272

First, the Trade Secretary expresses concern that charges, tariffs or quantitative restrictions across all the UK will be vulnerable to a World Trade Organisation sectors. It does not mean, as we heard in the statement challenge. Will the Government publish their advice today, customs, physical checks, export declarations, a and analysis of risk and cost to the Government of such commodity code, and economic operator restrictions a challenge? and identification, and it certainly does not mean a Secondly, the Trade Secretary highlights that there living document with guidance that changes day by day. are EU-facing ports where the infrastructure to implement I am sure the Minister will agree that we should never controls does not currently exist. Will the Minister give make promises that we cannot keep, so will he guarantee the country and, indeed, his Cabinet colleague reassurance that the promises made to UK businesses and workers by publishing all relevant delivery plans, land purchases in the Conservative party manifesto in December last and rental agreements, with timescales and risks—and year will be honoured, because they are not consistent not just for the port of Dover? The Labour party wants with the statement that he has delivered this afternoon? to see British firms exporting. We do not want to see Last week, the Chancellor of the Exchequer stood at their goods stuck at ports or, indeed, in lorry parks. that Dispatch Box and said that he will do all he can to Thirdly, the Trade Secretary is concerned in her letter support British business. Today, the Chancellor of the that traders from the rest of the world could export their Duchy of Lancaster stands at the same Dispatch Box goods to the UK through the EU and, in her words, and is wrapping those businesses in red tape and sending “undermine the effective operation of our trade policy” them to a super-sized lorry park in Dover. For the sake of all workers worried about their jobs and all business and undermine the collection of tariffs due. How will owners anxious about their future,we need the Government the Government prevent smugglers from exploiting the to get this right. I am not convinced that today’s statement phased-in approach to the border? What is the estimated does that. loss to tariffs as a result of the six-month delay to UK border checks on imports travelling through the European Union? Michael Gove: May I thank the hon. Lady for her questions and also for her commitment to working Fourthly, on Northern Ireland, the Trade Secretary collaboratively to ensure that we get the best possible said that the digital delivery of the dual tariff system in deal in our negotiations with the European Union. Northern Ireland is a high risk and that HMRCis planning Progress has been made, but there are still significant to apply the EU tariff as a default from 1 January. She differences between ourselves and the European Union. adds: None the less, I did think it was significant and welcome “This is very concerning as this may call into question NI’s that, for example, in the Joint Committee, Vice-President place in the UK’s customs territory.” Maroš Šefcˇovicˇ conceded that it would be no longer Those are her words. What risk do the Government appropriate for the EU to have an office in Northern attach to that? What reassurance can the Minister provide Ireland. That is an example of the flexibility that I know that the commitments made in the Government’scommand Michel Barnier and others are applying in the broader paper on Northern Ireland will be fully honoured, and negotiations, and I will seek to update the House on why do we have to wait until the end of this month for progress in those negotiations at an appropriate time. the details on Northern Ireland to be published? It is all The hon. Lady asks about the compliance of our very well announcing a multi-million pound advertising approach with our legal obligations under the WTO. campaign, but if the right hon. Gentleman cannot We are absolutely certain that, having taken legal advice, persuade his bestest friend in Cabinet that everything is we are compliant. Indeed, Lars Karlsson, a customs expert going according to plan, it is hardly surprising that the who appeared before the Committee on the Future country is anxious and confused. Relationship with the European Union recently, said A month ago, the Prime Minister said that there was that the issue raised was “not a problem” and that there “no reason” that a deal could not be reached by the end was no of this month. Will the Minister update us on where we “violation of international customs principles and the international are in terms of being on track to meet that deadline, legislation that the UK is part of under the WTO.” with a deal agreed in the next fortnight? The Government Of course, it will be removed—the correct process we have previously estimated that there will be up to 400 million are taking—on 1 July. customs declarations per year. HMRC said that they would cost £32 each, adding up to a staggering £12.8 billion The hon. Lady asks about infrastructure at EU-facing bill for business. Does the Minister have any updated ports. I stress that there are no plans to build a new assessment of those numbers and the cost to UK firms? lorry park at Dover. Indeed, the chief executive of the port of Dover, Tim Reardon, said—again, to the Select It is also reported that HMRC is not planning to test Committee chaired by the right hon. Member for Leeds the systems until November—a handful of weeks before Central (Hilary Benn)—that it is they are needed. Will the Minister explain why those checks are not taking place sooner, and will he outline “fair to say” what recent engagement the Government have had with that traders are Scottish and Welsh Governments on state aid policy “likely to be ready for the paperwork required to get into and out prior to the announcements today? More than half of of France, because those requirements have been set out very UK trade will experience greater delays, costs and barriers, clearly for some time now.” so what percentage of UK trade will enjoy easier trading The hon. Lady asks about the danger of lost tariffs. terms on 1 January next year? There is no danger of lost tariffs. Every importer will have The best way to help all businesses to prepare is, of to pay tariffs; we are simply making sure that the process course, to agree a deal with the European Union on the is staged. It is also important to stress, as a number of terms that we were told to expect. That means no fees, those involved in the haulage and freight industries have 1273 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1274

[Michael Gove] or what damage it will inflict on the economy—the decimation of key sectors, the chaos at the borders, the emphasised, that this phased approach is a sensible and threat to livelihoods. All that is supremely inconsequential pragmatic way to ensure that we can be in a stronger to all the anti-EU obsessives. position. “Let’s get going,” says the Chancellor of the Duchy On the situation in Northern Ireland, the hon. Lady of Lancaster, and we in Scotland intend to take him asks whether the EU tariff is the default. No, it is not. exactly at his word, although perhaps not quite in the She also asks about state aid. State aid subsidy control way he intended. We fully intend to get going—going support for businesses is important, but it is also a from this Government’s disastrous Brexit Britain: 54% of reserved matter. the Scottish people now support Scottish independence, Finally, I quote again from the chief executive of the and that support is only going to go up. port of Dover, because the hon. Lady is understandably As for the Tories, all they can now try to do is impose anxious to ensure that business has all the opportunities their will on a recalcitrant Scotland. Their latest wheeze, we would want to see in the covid recovery. He said that of course, is to curb devolution, to attack the powers of “being outside the European Union customs code puts the UK in the Scottish Parliament and to impose a UK single a position where it can develop processes that suit the UK in the market on a Scotland wanting out of their UK. This, 21st century. We do not need to stick with a legacy customs my Brexiteer friends, is the new UK superstate. Remember process whose origin can be found in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle that word, superstate, when its nightmarish controlling in the year 789.” horror was so chillingly and wrongly assigned to the It is time that we modernised our border and time that European Union? The superstate is arriving for Scotland, we took back control, and that is what today’s but it is not wearing gold stars on blue; it is wearing a announcement will do. Union Jack. All this will do is turn the trickle of remainers who are now supporting independence into a full-going Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): flood. I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement. I have just stepped out of a meeting with the British Chambers All I can say to the right hon. Gentleman is that we of Commerce, and it very much welcomes the acceleration will not be participating in this new UK single market, in implementation, investment and certainty for British or making it work or implementing it. The only thing business, although it wants as much of that as quickly we will be doing with it is using it as a recruiting as possible. sergeant for more people to support independence. I suppose he now has two choices when it comes to Scottish I ask for clarification on two technical matters, and I independence. He could do it easily and conveniently in shall choose my words carefully. First, as long as the partnership with us, or he could draw it out in a useless Joint Committee is satisfied that goods in transit from self-defeating process of attrition. Either way, we win. GB to Northern Ireland are not at risk of travelling on Enjoy your Brexit, my Conservative friends. We will not to the Republic of Ireland, while there may need to be some be coming with you. You may be getting going from the data transfer, there will be no need for a full import EU, but it is right that we are getting going from customs declaration to cross from GB to Northern Ireland. the UK. Secondly, now that the implementation of the final UK-EU border will be effectively phased to July 2021, Michael Gove: It is always a pleasure to see the hon. which could violate WTO rules, there will be legal Gentleman, and it is particularly good to see him in his certainty that there will be no extension beyond July place here in the Chamber. I have to say that that is a 2021, and Parliament can provide that legal certainty in particularly brave move, however, given the comments UK primary legislation if it is required. of the First Minister of Scotland over the course of the weekend, because if, as rumoured, the quarantine Michael Gove: I am very grateful to the Chair of the regulations mean that people cannot move from England Liaison Committee for his thoughtful and detailed to Scotland, he might well be imprisoned in his place questions. On the first, which relates to the Northern here for far longer than he ever anticipated. However, I Ireland protocol, there will need to be the provision of for one would be cheering if that happened, because I certain information to ensure that the UK plays its part so enjoy his company. in the implementation of the protocol by helping to protect the EU single market. We will say more about As is the hon. Gentleman’s wont, and his right, he that later this month. chose to skate lightly over the detail in his response, but he nevertheless made a number of important points. He Weare entirely satisfied that the phased implementation suggested that, as a result of our departure from the of controls is compliant with WTO procedures, but my European Union, we would be curbing devolution. hon. Friend is right to stress that that is because it is a That is not the case. More than 100 powers will be temporary regime, and we will ensure that there is no returned to the Scottish Parliament as a result of our alteration to the timetable we have set out. leaving the European Union. Far from being a power grab, it is a power surge for all the Parliaments of the Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): United Kingdom He also made the point that it is the Here we are: the end game of the disastrous and tortuous Scottish National party’s policy to leave the UK but to Brexit, all summed up neatly in the not-too-catchy slogan, then join the European Union, which would mean that “Let’s get going.” Dominic Cummings must have been all those powers that will flow to the Scottish Parliament up all night thinking of that one. would be returned to Brussels. This would include the Weare now to have an economic downturn precipitated return to the EU of Scotland’s capacity to regulate its by covid and compounded by the Government’s hard own fishing waters, just as Scotland was previously Brexit. It does not matter what chaos Brexit will bring shackled to the common fisheries policy. So the SNP’s 1275 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1276 position, curiously, is to demand fewer powers for the Mr Andrew Mitchell (Sutton Coldfield) (Con): I am Scottish Parliament and more powers for the European very glad that my right hon. Friend, with his acknowledged Commission. Not, I think, a popular view in Fraserburgh. administrative flair, is responsible for this. I want to The hon. Gentleman talked about our proposals, which raise an esoteric point, which has been brought up by are designed to ensure that Scotland’s businesses and constituents consistently. What will replace the regime citizens can continue to sell their goods and services that has successfully allowed our constituents to travel into the rest of the UK. Instead of welcoming that in their thousands with their dogs across the channel? collaborative working, he talked about these policies Will he try to ensure that the existing pet passport being a recruiting sergeant for independence. I could arrangements for dogs and other pets are able to continue say that the mask had slipped, but he has never worn a after the end of this year? mask to hide his intentions. He is a separatist and a Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend makes an important nationalist. I love him dearly, but as long as he cleaves point. Like me and many of his constituents, he is a to that ideology, I am afraid we have to recognise that proud dog owner. Scarlet Mitchell is a previous winner he is in the wrong boat. of the Westminster dog of the year competition. People cherish the opportunity to travel with their Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con): The people pets. If we are not a listed country, there will be additional of Rother Valley voted overwhelmingly for Brexit four procedures that pet owners will have to follow beyond years ago, yet still we are here. Does my right hon. those that currently exist, but we are confident that we Friend agree that the public want to hear more about will be a listed country because we have none of the the opportunities that will come from leaving the European health risks that the countries that are not listed by the Union, rather than the scaremongering and doing down EU have. I am confident that my right hon. Friend and of our country that we keep hearing from the Opposition Scarlet Whoosabootiful Mitchell—I believe that is the Benches? full name of his pet—will be able to continue to visit France. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a good point. It was the democratic decision of the whole United Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: Kingdom to leave the European Union. There are May I inform the Secretary of State that, as a member significant opportunities, and one of the points that I of the Committee on the Future Relationship with the alluded to in my statement is that, as businesses prepare European Union, I find it rather negative of him to take for the export requirements that will be needed when we out of context some of the quotes from the witnesses are outside the customs union, that will also equip them who have given evidence to the Committee? I have heard all the more powerfully for the new trading opportunities all the evidence since I have been a member, and my view that exist across the globe. is that we are heading for a disaster. What would he say to a leading businessman in my constituency, who said Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): The right hon. that we are staggering because of coronavirus? He said Gentleman says that he is not intending to create a that it is like coming out of the ring having gone massive concrete lorry park in Ashford. I would gently 15 rounds with Anthony Joshua, only to find, with the point out that if the lorries arriving there do not park chaos of leaving Europe, that we have Tyson Fury for up and stop, it will be very hard for people to check another 15. Is it fair to do that to our great British public? their paperwork, so the lorries will be parking. Will he clarify something about the site? Will it be used just to Michael Gove: Seconds out, round one, I am tempted check that lorries leaving the UK have the right paperwork, to reply. The hon. Gentleman knows that I have great so that they do not clog up the system at Dover and affection and respect for him. Indeed, it was his questioning Calais, or will it be used for checks on goods coming in the Select Committee that helped to elucidate some into the UK in lorries—or both? And will it be operational, of the opportunities that leaving the European Union along with the goods vehicle movement service IT system, can bring. The customs expert Lars Karlsson, who by the end of this year? spoke before the Committee, said: “It is a great opportunity because part of the UK’s strategy and global vision for trade opens up a totally new industry here”, Michael Gove: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, because he gives me a chance to clarify a number of which can be more efficient and bring additional benefits points. The hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) to British business. It is important of course to be aware suggested that we will be building a lorry park at Dover, of the challenges, but also the opportunities. but as the right hon. Gentleman points out, we are Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): With so moving infrastructure away from the port. As the chief many of our small and UK-wide businesses struggling executive of the port of Dover, Tim Reardon, pointed to survive following the covid crisis, the idea of adding out to his Committee, additional friction and cost to the trading relationship “one of the most helpful things that came out of the Government’s with their biggest market is deeply problematic and announcement…was the commitment to construct new control worrying. My right hon. Friend has worked extremely … infrastructure away from the port away from the key pinch hard for the country over the past few months, but I point”. urge him to do everything he can to ensure that the UK Combined with the GVMS system, to which the right gets a deal with minimal tariffs and minimum friction. hon. Gentleman alludes, that will ensure that we have a free flow of freight and none of the anticipated problems Michael Gove: I again thank my right hon. Friend for that have been mentioned. That investment in infrastructure the role that he played in reconstituting the Northern will ensure that lorries move out of the UK to the EU Ireland Executive earlier this year, which of course has with our high-quality goods. made the whole process of agreeing the approach towards 1277 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1278

[Michael Gove] as well as additional cost and risk to employers, especially those who employ EU nationals, as they will have to the Northern Ireland protocol and safeguarding the register as Home Office sponsors for the first time. Can rights of Northern Ireland citizens significantly easier. he tell me how much that will cost businesses up and We should all be grateful for his leadership in that role, down the UK? Does he agree that it is Scotland that is which helped advance the cause of peace. On the specific checking, changing and going, with 54% of people now point about securing a comprehensive free trade agreement supporting independence? with the European Union, I am completely with him. I think that it would be better, as the hon. Member for Michael Gove: The hon. Lady talks about migration. Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) also mentioned, for us to It is the case that Scotland will benefit, as the whole of have the zero-tariff, zero-quota approach that we can the UK will, from a points-based system that ensures secure through a comprehensive FTA, but I should add that we can have top scientists in Scottish universities that whether or not we secure that FTA, many of the and gifted clinicians in Scotland’s superb hospitals. She steps that I have outlined today will be required by also refers to an opinion poll. Of course, we had a vote business as “no regrets” steps anyway. on whether Scotland should be independent in 2014. As it happened, slightly more than 54% of people voted for James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: At the United Kingdom to stay together and to be stronger the end of March, I was told by the Minister for Patient together. We were told that was a once-in-a-generation Safety, Mental Health and Suicide Prevention, the hon. vote, and I know that that promise will be honoured. Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Ms Dorries), that “any European Union centrally authorised” Damian Green (Ashford) (Con): My right hon. Friend covid-19 vaccine would may be aware that I consider the decision to put an outbound emergency lorry park in my constituency, “be authorised in the UK” near where several thousand new homes are being built during the transition period, and that the Government on one side and with a large hospital nearby on the were other side, to be wrong-headed. Can he confirm that “working to ensure that UK patients can access the best and most when the Transport Minister writes to me that it is not innovative medicines” the Government’splan to develop this area as a permanent beyond 31 December 2020. Can the right hon. Gentleman lorry park, that is indeed Government policy, and will now guarantee that, whatever else changes at the end of he let the House know what environmental impact this year,there will be no risk of anydelayafter 31 December assessment has been done for the site? in the UK acquiring a covid-19 vaccine in comparison with countries in the EU? Michael Gove: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, who does a brilliant job standing up for his constituents. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman It is not the case that any specific site has been absolutely for his question. It is the case that there is global confirmed. We are in commercial negotiations with a collaboration through the CEPI programme to try to number of sites, and as and when they are confirmed I ensure that all countries that are determined to deal will let him know. It is also the case, as he rightly points with the covid-19 threat can work together to develop a out, that some of the infrastructure will be temporary vaccine. We have relationships with European and other and some will be permanent. May I extend to him and nations, which are there to ensure that we are in a strong to all Kent Members of Parliament an opportunity to position to be able to provide a vaccine for our citizens come into the Cabinet Office to discuss with me and once one is effectively tested. officials the approach that we are taking? I hope that I can provide him and other colleagues with reassurance Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con): Buckinghamshire has in that process. more microbusinesses than any other county in the country. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to Wes Streeting (Ilford North) (Lab): There are five and ensure that those very smallest firms are fully aware of a half months to go and the Chancellor of the Duchy of the steps that they will need to take so that they really Lancaster still cannot even confirm the site. Will he at can get going with the new opportunities they will enjoy least reply to my right hon. Friend the Member for after the transition period? Leeds Central (Hilary Benn), who asked specifically whether there will be checks at the lorry park on goods Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes an important moving to the European continent and coming into the point. In Buckinghamshire and elsewhere where there UK? My right hon. Friend also asked—this goes to the are microbusinesses, they can take advantage of the new heart of the concern raised by the right hon. Member information campaign that we have provided. There is for Ashford (Damian Green)—whether the lorry park an online checker, which will allow them to judge whether will be operational along with the goods vehicle movement they have taken the appropriate steps to be ready to trade. service IT system by the end of the year. Can the right They can also register for regular updates to ensure that hon. Gentleman at least give us that assurance? they are making progress in a timely fashion, and of course the provision of additional funding for customs Michael Gove: It is the case that the GVMS will be intermediaries will ensure that they can have an appropriate in place, as all the systems will, so that we can have a freight forwarder or other in order that they can continue fully operational border, and of course the additional to trade freely. infrastructure—the £705 million that we have announced today will ensure that it is in place in time—will be there Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) [V]: It is specifically to ensure that when vehicles arrive in Calais perfectly clear from the right hon. Gentleman’s statement they have passed through all the necessary checks and that we will actually get more red tape rather than less, can then proceed smoothly to market. 1279 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1280

Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Many businesses in Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD): In today’s Rugby trade with companies across Europe, and I wonder statement, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster therefore what assessment my right hon. Friend has has acknowledged some of the costs and attempted to made of their current state of readiness for the end of highlight the opportunities of Brexit, but opportunities the transition period. Will he say a little more about the in financial terms currently equate to zero. Those who steps he is taking to ensure that retaining and growing said leaving the EU would mean additional costs and that business becomes easier, rather than more difficult? bureaucracy were right, and some of these costs are now becoming clear: more money, on top the £100 million Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes an important previously spent, on comms, and now £705 million on point. A significant number of businesses have taken border infrastructure—no frictionless trade after all. significant steps in order to prepare themselves for life When will the Government be in a position to respond outside the customs union and single market, but one of to the 50 questions raised today by the Food and Drink the reasons for the campaign we are launching now is to Federation, particularly the how? ensure that every business has the information it needs. I hope to work with my hon. Friend and other hon. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Lady. I and Members in order to ensure that business has the support my colleague the Secretary of State for Environment, it needs to take advantage of the opportunities and also Food and Rural Affairs will respond to the Food and to deal with the changes that are coming next. Drink Federation’s helpful questions. The FDF has been a valued partner in our preparation for our departure Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): It was only yesterday from the European Union and I would like to pay that the Government announced £100 million to develop tribute to Ian Wright and all those who work for the HMRC systems to reduce the burden on traders. Why FDF for making sure that they work with us in order to have these systems not already been developed? provide every part of the supply chain with the information it needs. Michael Gove: They have; we are just improving Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): them. By my reckoning, the grant being offered to the customs intermediary sector will probably cover the costs of the Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance): Today’s customs officers that will be needed for about a couple statement sets out the brutal reality of Brexit for the GB of weeks, so what estimate has the right hon. Gentleman to European Union interface but does not address made of the annual cost to UK businesses of complying Northern Ireland. We do not have the luxury of a phased with the new customs rules? roll-out—things have to be in place for 1 January—so can the right hon. Gentleman give us a firm commitment Michael Gove: I should gently correct the hon. that there will be at least the same level of detail as that Gentleman: it is not the case that the grant is there for published today before the end of this month for the customs officers, HMRC staff or Border Force staff. Northern Ireland protocol, given that we have at least The £84 million is there for customs intermediaries, five different regulatory checks that have to be put in who are commercial actors, and, as was pointed out in place? the quotations that I used earlier, this is a significant opportunity for the UK to grow rather than retreat. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for drawing an appropriate distinction between the Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con) [V]: I have border operating model between GB and the EU and been speaking to local business bosses recently who are the Northern Ireland protocol, and it is the case that very much looking forward to having the opportunity more detail will be published later this month. Indeed, to trade freely with the rest of the world. With that in the Specialised Committee is meeting later this week in mind, will my right hon. Friend confirm what support order to refine that. will be available for those individual businesses following the launch of the “Check, Change, Go” campaign? Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con): At the weekend, the Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right: shadow Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said that there will be significant new opportunities,and as businesses these measures were “too little, too late”, but would we prepare for life outside the customs union with the help not have left the EU earlier and with less uncertainty and support that we are announcing today, that will had it not been for the attempts of Opposition Members equip them more easily to take advantage of global to dither and delay and postpone our exit from the trade opportunities. We will make sure that there is a European Union, denying the will of the people of field force of appropriate advisers to supplement the Gedling and the British people? online checker, which I know he and I will bring to the attention of the businesses in our constituencies. Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a very fair point. I exempt the hon. Member for Leeds West (Rachel David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): In this latest Reeves) from any criticism, but it is the case that, while Brexit bingo read-out that the Chancellor of the Duchy she might have wanted more spending on infrastructure, of Lancaster presented to the House, he wanted to talk one of the things that her party was committed to right about optimism and opportunity, but let me press him up until the general election was staying in the customs on a point that was not in the statement, relating union and the single market. It was Labour policy then specifically to the Erasmus scheme. Many young people not to spend this money at all and not to implement this at Lochend Community High School in Easterhouse programme at all but, as I have said, I exempt the hon. were able to take part in the Erasmus scheme. With Lady from any particular criticism, because I know that five and half months to go, what hope and opportunity she is committed, like I am, to doing the best for British can he offer them, or is it the case that this Tory business. Government are taking away that opportunity? 1281 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1282

Michael Gove: After consultation with the devolved in Dover. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the Administrations, we are negotiating to seek a potential freight in Holyhead will be checked, and what does that continuation of involvement in the Erasmus scheme, as mean for jobs, skilled employment and investment, we are seeking to continue participation in scientific which are so desperately needed in Ynys Môn? collaboration as well. One thing that I would say about the fate of children in Easterhouse and in other parts of Michael Gove: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Glasgow is that their life chances have fallen backwards reminding us of the vital role that the port of Holyhead relative to other parts of the United Kingdom as a in Anglesey plays. I had the opportunity to visit Holyhead result of the education policies that the Scottish Government last summer, to see the superb work that was being have put in place. It used to be the case that Scotland undertaken by her constituents. I can assure her that, was ahead of England in international league tables for whether it is trade with the Republic of Ireland or reading, writing and mathematics. It is now the case beyond, we will do everything we can—working, of that Scotland has fallen behind, and the response from course, with the Welsh Government—to ensure that the the Scottish Government has been no longer to participate commercial opportunities for those in Holyhead who in some of those international comparisons. Hiding do so much for our trade are enhanced. from scrutiny is no way to help Scotland’s children. Sarah Owen (Luton North) (Lab) [V]: Vauxhall and Lia Nici (Great Grimsby) (Con): As the Government the workers who keep it going are fundamental to invest in new border control infrastructure to ensure Luton’s economy, and a third shift of workers are that we can continue to trade smoothly with the EU starting, so that the company can meet the high demand once we go beyond the transition period, does my right for our tremendous Luton-made vans. However, without hon. Friend agree that that will create more local jobs to a tariff-free trade agreement, future investment is uncertain support ports such as Grimsby and Immingham? for manufacturing across the country.Without soundbites or slogans, can the right hon. Gentleman tell me what Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. It genuine progress has been made towards a trade deal is the case that Grimsby and Immingham are hugely that protects the future of car manufacturing in the UK? important ports not just for EU trade, but for rest-of- the-world trade. As I mentioned in quoting from the Michael Gove: The hon. Lady makes an important authoritative figures who appeared in front of the Future point. The success of the automotive sector in not just Relationship with the European Union Committee, there Luton but Sunderland and across the United Kingdom are significant opportunities for people to play a role in is a matter of importance to people across the House. the expansion of international trade. These are new That is why we are pursuing a zero-tariff, zero-quota jobs, which are designed to make sure that Britain goes arrangement. As she will know, there has been significant global. onshoring of capacity from other European countries into the UK, not least in Sunderland, and that is Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): Last September, something we want to build on. I will do everything I the Minister acknowledged that there is a material risk can to ensure that she and other MPs who represent of long delays at Dover. Will he tell us what his current constituencies with significant automotive interests are assessment of that risk is? The Freight Transport kept informed about the progress of our negotiations, Association pointed out that there are only 300 spaces because of course, we put the interests of her constituents in the lorry park at Calais, where thousands of lorries first. coming from Dover are likely to be checked every day. Is he now proposing that all 10,000 lorries heading for Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) [V]: I thank Dover will be checked somewhere in the UK before they my right hon. Friend for updating the House, as he does arrive there? How many officials will it require to carry on a regular basis. I wonder whether he has had an out those checks, and will he tell us the shortlist of opportunity to see the report published today by the locations where those checks might be carried out? Centre for Social Justice entitled “It Still Happens Here: Fighting UK Slavery in the 2020s”, which estimates Michael Gove: I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman that there are 100,000 modern-day slaves in this country. for referring back to the time when I appeared in front Allowing free movement of people has made that a lot of the Exiting the European Union Committee, chaired easier for evil human trafficking gangs. Can he confirm by the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn). that, from 1 January, we will take back control of our The situation has changed since then as a result of borders, and that one of the huge benefits will be that the investment that we put into infrastructure and the we can clamp down on these evil gangs? refinement of systems and greater clarity. I quoted earlier Tim Reardon of the port of Dover, who said of Michael Gove: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for hauliers: raising that issue. He has been a consistent opponent of “It is fair to say that they are likely to be ready…because” modern slavery and human trafficking and has done an enormous amount to draw it to the attention of others the requirements that they have to fulfil and to demand and secure appropriate action. It is only “have been set out very clearly for some time now.” right that Members across the House recognise the I am confident that the steps that we have already taken consistent campaigning energy that he has brought to and the announcement that we are making today will this important issue. It is also important to say that, as help to ensure the free flow of trade. we take back control of our borders and move to having greater data and a more effective approach to monitoring Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): In my constituency who and what comes into this country, we can play an I have Holyhead port, which is the second busiest even more prominent part in dealing with that evil roll-on roll-off port in the UK. We have seen investment trade. 1283 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1284

Alyn Smith (Stirling) (SNP) [V]: No amount of Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As soundbites or slogans can distract from the fact that I said earlier, I exempt the hon. Member for Leeds West Brexit, which I regret, has already made a lot of people (Rachel Reeves) from this, but some Members of other poorer. That will only continue, and I have a concrete parties did seek to work with the Commission against example. From January, a married couple in my the interests of this country, and the country decided constituency who are in their early 70s will need to pay what it thought of that on 12 December. £166.22 per month to replicate what they already have through the European health insurance card, which Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) (SNP) [V]: they are losing against their will. Would the Chancellor With the threat of a no-deal Brexit last year, drug of the Duchy of Lancaster like to come to Stirling to stockpiles were established to reduce the risk of shortages, explain to them how their freedom and opportunity to particularly of insulin, which is largely imported from pay more money to replicate what they already have the EU. What state are those stockpiles in now? If makes their life better? businesses are struggling to prepare for Brexit in the middle of the covid crisis, how does the right hon. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, Gentleman expect healthcare services to manage? who was a distinguished Member of the European Parliament, for raising that case. I would be more than Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for happy to come to Stirling and to receive additional making that point. As the whole House knows, she is a information about the specific case that faces his very distinguished NHS consultant and she is right to constituents. It would be my pleasure to do everything I raise the issue of insulin, along with that of other drugs can to ensure that we can resolve the system. On the and medical devices we need. The Health Secretary and basis of what he says, I think there may be some his Department are working with mine to ensure that miscommunication, but let me commit to doing my we have stockpiles for any eventuality, but I will look very best to resolve the situation on behalf of his forward to updating her, with the help of my right hon. constituents. Friend, in due course.

Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con) [V]: When we leave the Mr Mark Harper (Forest of Dean) (Con): I listened EU we will no longer be subject to the Official Journal carefully to all the questions coming from those on the of the European Union and, as my right hon. Friend Opposition Benches about paperwork and checks, but knows, public sector procurement contracts are now worth when my right hon. Friend is talking about these issues about £250 billion a year. So will he change public will he remind the public that more than half of our sector procurement rules to ensure that any large private trade comes from outside the EU, that data is transferred company bidding for a public sector contract must have electronically and so there is very little paper, and that an apprenticeship commitment guaranteeing that a certain we check things only where there is a risk to our border? proportion of its workforce will be apprentices? We do not open every vehicle and we are not going to do it in the future. Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend makes a very important point. He rightly says that outside the EU we Michael Gove: My right hon. Friend makes an excellent can shape our own procurement rules, in our own point. He is right to say that some who comment on interests, and that we should do everything possible to these matters sometimes take an antiquated view of encourage the wider spread of apprenticeships, which customs procedures, suggesting that every consignment do so much to improve social mobility and indeed the is opened by a uniformed figure who pokes around for effectiveness of British manufacturing. I will look in hours on end. In fact, this is a streamlined electronic detail at his specific proposal to see what we can do. process, one which, as he rightly points out, has also seen the share of trade that the UK has with the rest of the world grow and the share it has with the EU Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC) [V]: Further to the earlier diminish, even while we were in the single market. The question about Holyhead, how much of the £705 million changes we are making will provide us with an opportunity will be going specifically to that port, and to what to be even more effectively integrated with the growing purpose? economies of the world.

Michael Gove: I will be able to provide a breakdown, Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP) [V]: Scots port by port and region by region, in due course, but of were told that remaining in the Union and Brexit would course we want to work with the Welsh Government to assure Scotland of a powerful voice in the world, while ensure that appropriate infrastructure is in place not independence would mean being a small nation without just in Holyhead but at other ports. I am grateful for the influence, like Ireland. Now that Ireland has a seat on Plaid Cymru endorsement of UK Government spending the UN Security Council, the President of the Eurogroup, in Wales in order to strengthen our Union. the chief economist of the European Central Bank and the EU Trade Commissioner, can the Chancellor of the Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con): Does my right Duchy of Lancaster tell me where Scotland’s powerful hon. Friend recall that last year some Opposition Members equivalent is? were clambering aboard the Eurostar to tell the Commission not to agree a deal? We left with a deal, despite what Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman, they said and their best efforts to block it. Does he agree who of course was a very distinguished Minister in a that we will end the transition period on good terms at previous Scottish Government. I will take nothing away the end of the year, despite what some have been saying from the achievements of the people of the Republic throughout this process? of Ireland, led as they are by their new Taoiseach 1285 EU Exit: End of Transition Period13 JULY 2020 EU Exit: End of Transition Period 1286

[Michael Gove] economies in east Asia have the opportunity to work well with UK businesses. He is also right that we need to Micheál Martin. They can look confidently to the future. work together—Government, business representative However, it is a fact that, were the policies he advocates organisations and others—to ensure that businesses are to be taken forward, we would find a border control at prepared. He is right that we do want a comprehensive Berwick, you could not use the pound sterling in Stirling, free trade agreement with the EU, but whether we and, as a result, there would be economic turbulence for secure that agreement or not outside the customs union the people who I know are closest to his heart. That is we will need to adapt to a new approach. We need to why I believe we are stronger and better together. As a work together to ensure we can do that properly. result of having talented advocates like him in this Westminster Parliament, we can achieve more for all Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): I was asked by a friend parts of the United Kingdom. yesterday why I wanted to be a Conservative MP. My answer, very simply, was empowerment. I have always Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): The UK leaving felt that the Conservatives are all about giving people the European Union provides some fantastic opportunities the tools and choices to make their own lives better. for this country, but inevitably, as we leave the EU, new Does my right hon. Friend agree that, after all the procedures will be used at the port of Dover. What predictions of doom and blatant scaremongering from plans have the Government put in place to communicate Opposition parties, which, sadly, we are still seeing here with foreign lorry drivers going through Kent to ensure today, it is that word “empowerment” that is key to the that there is no excessive delay? UK forging a positive way in the world and on which we Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes an important must be completely focused on all sides of the House point. Part of the information campaign we are launching and in every nation of our Union? today is aimed at businesses in the European Union, as well as at UK businesses, to ensure they are aware of Michael Gove: I completely agree with my hon. Friend. what they need to do. Awareness is high. As we know, a majority of people in Wales voted to leave the European Union. They did so as part of a Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab): Will the United Kingdom, because they believed it was important Minister answer concerned residents living near the site that more powers flow to this Parliament, as they will of the lorry park in Kent, who will want to know if an also flow to the devolved Administrations, so that those assessment of noise and air pollution will be published? who represent them are empowered to take decisions in their name. His friend asked him why he wanted to be a Michael Gove: As I mentioned earlier, there are a Conservative. May I say that I am very glad that he did number of potential sites in Kent and we will make sure choose to become a Conservative MP? He is a huge that, whichever site is chosen, the appropriate procedures asset to this House. If anyone were to ask me exactly are followed to safeguard not just the commercial life of why I became a Conservative MP, I would have to the nation but the interests of nearby residents. return and reply to the House in due course. All I will say is that it is a pleasure to be on the same Benches as Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con): Last year, the my hon. Friend. previous head of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs said that less than half of the 130,000 UK businesses exporting only to the EU had engaged on likely changes. Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab): I am greatly While understandable then, it is vital that that changes concerned, as are very many of my constituents, that now. Will my right hon. Friend strive to deliver the the lorry park announced in the newspapers will cause comprehensive free trade agreement that everyone on serious tailbacks, another summer of traffic chaos and both sides of the England Channel needs? Will he also particular problems for those who are travelling to the mobilise the army of British Chambers of Commerce, nearest A&E department at William Harvey Hospital. the Federation of Small Businesses, growth hubs and Can the Minister assure me that this issue and the other organisations to make sure that their seminars are potential alarming rise in air pollution—it was mentioned planned as soon as possible, with frequently answered by my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside questions, so that when the rules change on 1 January our (Kim Johnson) but not properly answered—are being many exporting small businesses do not find this a addressed properly and seriously for east Kent? surprise? Michael Gove: I completely understand, and I hope Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. I that the hon. Lady will be able to join me in a meeting should say that he has been a very effective advocate for with other Kent MPs so that I can provide her with Britain’s global trading future, making sure that rising reassurance on that front. 1287 13 JULY 2020 Point of Order 1288

Point of Order (d) Proceedings on Second Reading shall be brought to a conclusion (so far as not previously concluded) four hours after 5.25 pm the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for this Order. (e) Proceedings in Committee of the whole House, any proceedings Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ on Consideration and proceedings on Third Reading shall be Co-op): On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. brought to a conclusion (so far as not previously concluded) You will recall the urgent question that Mr Speaker six hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion kindly granted to the hon. Member for Worthing West for this Order. (Sir Peter Bottomley) last week, so I regret to inform (f) This paragraph shall have effect notwithstanding the practice you that Bahrain’s highest court has today, via Instagram, of the House as to the intervals between stages of a Bill brought announced confirmation of the death sentences against in upon Ways and Means Resolutions. Mohammed Ramadhan and Hussain Moosa, who were Timing of proceedings and Questions to be put tortured. That is utterly unacceptable, and the risk that (2) When the proceedings on the Motion for the Resolution have these sentences will be carried out is imminent. Not been concluded and the Bill has been read the first time and least given the UK’s direct support for the agencies ordered to be printed, the Order for the Second Reading of the implicated in the torture and forced confession of these Bill shall be read. men, and the fact that the Minister for the Middle East (3) When the Bill has been read a second time: and North Africa, the right hon. Member for Braintree (a) it shall, despite Standing Order No. 63 (Committal of bills not (James Cleverly), said that he would speak “publicly subject to a programme order), stand committed to a Committee and loudly” if the death sentences were confirmed of the whole House without any Question being put; today, have you had any notice of a statement from the (b) the Speaker shall leave the Chair whether or not notice of Foreign Office on what it now plans to do? That might an Instruction has been given. include raising this at the highest levels, including with (4) (a) On the conclusion of proceedings in Committee of the the King, to urge clemency. whole House, the Chair shall report the Bill to the House without putting any Question. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I (b) If the Bill is reported with amendments, the House shall thank the hon. Gentleman for giving me notice of this proceed to consider the Bill as amended without any Question point of order about what is clearly a very distressing being put. matter. I have not received notice of an oral statement (5) For the purpose of bringing any proceedings to a conclusion on it, but I am sure that his request and his plea for in accordance with paragraph (1), the Speaker or Chair shall action will have been heard by the Ministers on the forthwith put the following Questions in the same order as they Treasury Bench and will be passed back to appropriate would fall to be put if this Order did not apply: Ministers. (a) any Question already proposed from the Chair; (b) any Question necessary to bring to a decision a Question so 5.26 pm proposed; Sitting suspended. (c) the Question on any amendment, new Clause or new Schedule selected by the Speaker or Chair for separate decision; SUPPLY AND APPROPRIATION (d) the Question on any amendment moved or Motion made (MAIN ESTIMATES) BILL by a Minister of the Crown; Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing (e) any other Question necessary for the disposal of the business Order No. 56), That the Bill be now read a Second time. to be concluded; and shall not put any other questions, other than the question on any motion described in paragraph (12)(a) of this Question agreed to. Order. Bill accordingly read a Second time. (6) On a Motion made for a new Clause or a new Schedule, the Question put forthwith, That the Bill be now read the Speaker or Chair shall put only the Question that the Clause or Third time. Schedule be added to the Bill. Question agreed to. (7) If two or more Questions would fall to be put under paragraph (5)(d) on successive amendments moved or Motions Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. made by a Minister of the Crown, the Speaker or Chair shall instead put a single Question in relation to those amendments or STAMP DUTY LAND TAX (TEMPORARY Motions. RELIEF) BILL: BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE (8) If two or more Questions would fall to be put under paragraph Ordered, (5)(e) in relation to successive provisions of the Bill, the Chair That the following provisions shall apply to the proceedings on shall instead put a single Question in relation to those provisions, the Motion for Resolution ‘Stamp duty land tax (temporary relief)’ except that the Question shall be put separately on any Clause of and to proceedings on any Bill brought in upon the Resolution: or Schedule to the Bill which a Minister of the Crown has signified an intention to leave out. Timetable (1) (a) Proceedings on the Motion for Resolution ‘Stamp duty Other proceedings land tax (temporary relief)’, proceedings on presentation and first (9) Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed. reading of any Bill brought in upon the Resolution, proceedings Miscellaneous on Second Reading and in Committee, any proceedings on (10) Standing Order No. 15(1) (Exempted business) shall apply to Consideration and proceedings on Third Reading shall be taken any proceedings to which this Order applies. at today’s sitting in accordance with this Order. (11) Standing Order No. 82 (Business Committee) shall not apply (b) Notices of Amendments, new Clauses or new Schedules to in relation to any proceedings to which this Order applies. be moved in Committee of the whole House may be accepted by the Clerks at the Table before the Bill has been read a second time. (12) (a) No Motion shall be made, except by a Minister of the (c) Proceedings on the Motion for the Resolution shall be Crown, to alter the order in which any proceedings on the Motion brought to a conclusion (so far as not previously concluded) two for the Resolution or the Bill are taken, to recommit the Bill or to hours after the commencement of proceedings on the Motion for vary or supplement the provisions of this Order. this Order. (b) No notice shall be required of such a Motion. 1289 Point of Order 13 JULY 2020 Point of Order 1290

(c) Such a motion may be considered forthwith without any “TABLE A: RESIDENTIAL Question being put; and any proceedings interrupted for that purpose shall be suspended accordingly. Part of relevant consideration Percentage (d) The Question on such a Motion shall be put forthwith; and So much as does not exceed 3% any proceedings suspended under sub-paragraph (c) shall thereupon £500,000 be resumed. So much as exceeds £500,000 8% (e) Standing Order No. 15(1) (Exempted business) shall apply but does not to proceedings on such a Motion. exceed £925,000 (13) (a) No dilatory Motion shall be made in relation to proceedings So much as exceeds £925,000 13% to which this Order applies except by a Minister of the Crown. but does not exceed £1,500,000 (b) The Question on any such Motion shall be put forthwith. The remainder (if any) 15%”. (14) No debate shall be held in accordance with Standing Order No. 24 (Emergency debates) at today’s sitting after this Order has (4) Paragraph 2(3) of Schedule 5 (amount of SDLT chargeable been agreed. in respect of rent) has effect as if for Table A there were substituted— “TABLE A: RESIDENTIAL (15) Proceedings to which this Order applies shall not be interrupted under any Standing Order relating to the sittings of the House. Rate bands Percentage (16) No private business may be considered at today’s sitting after this Order has been agreed.—(Michael Tomlinson.) £0 to £500,000 0% Over £500,000 1%”. (5) Part 4 of the Finance Act 2003 has effect as if section 57B and Schedule 6ZA (which concern relief for first-time buyers) were omitted (and, accordingly, Schedule 9 is to have effect as if STAMP DUTY LAND TAX (TEMPORARY paragraphs 15 to 16 were omitted). RELIEF) BILL (WAYS AND MEANS) (6) In a case where— (a) as a result of section 44(4) of the Finance Act 2003 the Resolved, effective date of a land transaction falls in the temporary relief period, and That— (b) the contract concerned is completed by a conveyance after (1) This Resolution makes modifications of Part 4 of the Finance that period ends, section 44(8) of that Act is not to apply in Act 2003 in relation to any land transaction the effective date of relation to that conveyance if the sole reason that (but for this which falls in the period (“the temporary relief period”)— paragraph) it would have applied is that the modifications made (a) beginning with 8 July 2020, and by this Resolution have no effect in relation to that conveyance. (7) Section 44(10) of the Finance Act 2003 applies for the purposes (b) ending with 31 March 2021. of paragraph (6). (2) Section 55(1B) (amount of stamp duty land tax chargeable: And it is declared that it is expedient in the public interest that general) has effect as if for Table A there were substituted— this Resolution should have statutory effect under the provisions of the Provisional Collection of Taxes Act 1968.—(Jesse Norman.) “TABLE A: RESIDENTIAL Ordered, That a Bill be brought in on the foregoing Part of relevant consideration Percentage Resolution; That the Chairman of Ways and Means, the Prime So much as does not exceed 0% Minister, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Steve Barclay, £500,000 John Glen, Kemi Badenoch and Jesse Norman introduce So much as exceeds £500,000 5% the Bill. but does not exceed £925,000 STAMP DUTY LAND TAX (TEMPORARY RELIEF)BILL So much as exceeds £925,000 10% Jesse Norman accordingly presented a Bill to make but does not provision to reduce for a temporary period the amount exceed £1,500,000 of stamp duty land tax chargeable on the acquisition of The remainder (if any) 12%”. residential property. (3) Schedule 4ZA (higher rates of stamp duty land tax for Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time additional dwellings etc) has effect as if for the Table A in now and to be printed (Bill 160) with explanatory notes section 55(1B) mentioned in paragraph 1(2) there were substituted— (Bill 160-EN). 1291 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1292 (Temporary Relief) Bill Stamp Duty Land Tax of the 700,000 people employed in those sectors and to (Temporary Relief) Bill safeguard the incalculable contribution they make to our national life. Second Reading Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con): May I Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): Under congratulate my hon. Friend and his colleagues on the the order of the House today, amendments and new Treasury Bench for what I think has been an exemplary clauses to be moved in Committee of the whole House response to an unprecedented crisis? He describes the may now be tabled. Hon. Members should table through challenges that still remain in the economy. Many people the Public Bill Office inbox: [email protected]. still face tough times, particularly in the events sector, In order to be eligible for selection, Members should where businesses remain as yet unopened. Many of the table amendments within the next 10 minutes. people who work in the events and entertainment sector have not, for various reasons to do with their employment or tax status, been able to take advantage of the schemes 5.32 pm we have seen over the past few months. Will my hon. The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (John Glen): Friend, together with his Treasury colleagues, look at I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time. whether there are additional things we can do to support There is no doubt that the spring and early summer those sectors and those people in the months ahead, of 2020 will be forever remembered as one of the most because for them times are still tough? testing periods in our nation’s post-war history.Covid-19 John Glen: I thank my right hon. Friend for his kind is both a health crisis and an economic crisis. It has remarks.There is more work to be done, and I acknowledge tested the public and private sectors in equal measure, the challenges faced by different industries in different just has it has tested the population as a whole. But the ways. We will continue to look very carefully at further virus has been brought to heel, and thanks to our interventions that we could make and shall make in the collective efforts we are now in a position where it is safe Budget later this year. to reopen our economy. I turn to the housing market, which is another example From the outset of this crisis, the Government have of a sector that has experienced considerable disruption sought to protect business, jobs and incomes. The and which brings me to the subject of this Bill. The coronavirus jobs retention scheme and self-employment Government’s plan for jobs will support the construction income support scheme have between them preserved sector by injecting new confidence and certainty into the millions of livelihoods through the lockdown. Meanwhile, housing market. It will do so by ensuring that anyone our VAT deferrals and business rates reliefs, alongside buying a main home for under £500,000 before the end the coronavirus business interruption loans and bounce- of March next year will pay no stamp duty whatever. back loan scheme, have carried many businesses through the hardest months, so that they now have a fighting A thriving housing market is critical for growth and chance to recover. jobs in this country. Most obviously, a healthy labour market relies on people being able to move home to be In the autumn, the Government will bring forward a closer to the jobs that match their skills, but the building Budget and a spending review that will set out a longer-term industry is itself a major contributor to jobs and prosperity strategy for the United Kingdom’s economic recovery. in the country, adding £39 billion a year to the UK However, this pandemic is not yet over. Even as we economy. House building alone supports up to three step out of lockdown, a great deal of disruption and quarters of a million jobs, and let us not forget the uncertainty remains. Many businesses have yet to reopen manyrelated sectors that benefit from property transactions: their doors. Up and down the country, people are estate agents, removal companies, furniture retailers, worried about whether their jobs will be secure when DIY stores, self-employed decorators and so forth. The they return to work, and that is why my right hon. lockdown sadly brought much of that trade to a juddering Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer came to the halt. House on Wednesday to set out the Government’s plan Rightmove estimates that 175,000 sellers were prevented for jobs. As a first step, the Government are introducing from coming to the market between March and May a one-off job retention bonus of £1,000, available to this year. Meanwhile, HMRC data shows that residential employers for each furloughed employee who is still property transactions in May were about 50% lower employed as of 31 January next year. than the same month last year. For the first time in eight There will also be new, high-quality jobs for hundreds years, house prices have fallen. of thousands of young kick-starters. We will invest £1 billion to double the number of work coaches Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): The and support the unemployed. There will be more Minister is making a fair argument in support of the apprenticeships, traineeships and skills funding, and we construction and housing sector, but, as he just described, will bring forward £8.6 billion of investment in our the sector is down by 50% in terms of sales. He will public services and infrastructure to trigger new job appreciate that the automotive and car sector was down creation projects around the country. However, we know by 97% over the two months of April and May and that some sectors of the economy have been hit particularly down by 30% in June. Does he not think that that sector hard, and that is why the Government will support the is worthy of support as well? hospitality and tourism sectors by cutting VAT on food, accommodation and attractions from 20% to just 5% John Glen: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his for the next six months. It is why the Government have observations, which he made last week as well. Of course put in place a £1.57 billion rescue package for theatres, the Government look at all industries. The automotive museums and other cultural industries, in recognition industry is a key industry, and we are in dialogue with 1293 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1294 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [John Glen] by the buyers. In 2014, the Government reformed stamp duty land tax on residential properties, cutting the tax companies across the country looking at the appropriate for 98% of buyers who pay it, unless they are purchasing interventions necessary.Obviously,commercial sensitivities additional property.In 2015, the Government introduced sometimes prevent us from discussing those at the Dispatch the higher rates of SDLT, which apply on purchases of Box. additional residential properties such as second homes With restrictions easing, the Government have been and buy-to-let properties. Finally,in 2017, the Government able to reopen the housing market, and there are signs introduced first-time buyers relief. This increased the of tentative movement. Transactions in May were price at which a property becomes liable to pay stamp 16% higher than in April. It is crucial to our recovery duty, for first-time buyers, from £125,000 to £300,000, that we maintain this momentum. People should feel with a reduced rate between £300,000 and £500,000. confident to move, to buy, to sell, and to renovate and Together, these reforms have made the tax system improve their homes. This is why the Government are fairer and more efficient. They have cut the cost of home cutting stamp duty land tax by temporarily increasing ownership for first-time buyers, helping more than 500,000 the nil rate band for residential property from £125,000 families to secure a foot on the housing ladder. This Bill to £500,000, with effect from last Wednesday—8 July—until will cut the cost of home ownership further, at a time 31 March 2021. when personal finances are under considerable pressure. In doing so, it will inject new momentum into the Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I draw property market, protecting thousands of jobs in both the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of the construction industry and the wider economy. Members’ Financial interests. I am very supportive of This stamp duty cut is one of several measures in the these measures. One of the risks to the housing market Government’s plan for jobs that will benefit families is the withdrawal by the lenders of high loan-to-value and businesses across the country. From September, mortgages, especially for first-time buyers. We know homeowners and landlords will be able to apply for a that 90% and 95% loans can become a self-fulfilling green homes grant of up to £5,000 to make their homes prophecy that damages the market. Will the Minister more energy efficient. For low-income households, we do whatever he can to make sure that our banks support will go even further, with vouchers covering the full cost high loan-to-value mortgages throughout this time? up to £10,000. This, too, will support local jobs, as well as reducing carbon emissions and cutting energy bills John Glen: I am grateful, as ever, for my hon. Friend’s for hard-pressed families. intervention. Of course, he has enormous expertise in this sector. He is right to say that there is a threat given Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con): I wonder if the changes in the profile of LTV mortgages that are the Minister could clarify a couple of points. On the being offered. We hope that that will return to more of 31 March date, we all worry that this will end up being a the normal schedule that we would have seen pre-pandemic. cliff edge, as the date approaches. Will that be the date Wewill be actively looking at this, and I am in conversations of exchange, which is usual, I think, in these matters? Is with the banks and building societies about it. he not concerned about that cliff edge? For some people, for no reason of their own, late finishing of their Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): property will mean they fall the wrong side,very expensively? Does the Minister agree that this is actually more than a threat for first-time buyers at the moment—it is a reality? John Glen: I thank my hon. Friend for his point. We First-time buyers are queuing online for websites of are in a situation where, if the transaction is substantially lenders in an effort to get the small number of 5% deposit completed by 31 March, it will be able to qualify for the mortgages. Providing more incentive to people who relief. already own their own home or are part of the buy-to-let Almost four months ago, the Government took the market effectively crowds out first-time buyers. extraordinary step of ordering businesses across the country to close for an extended and unspecified period John Glen: I thank the hon. Lady for her point. I of time. Millions of people put their lives on hold for would look at it in terms of opening up the market, the greater good, but now that the virus is under control, creating more churn and momentum that allows all the time has come to reopen our economy. Providing participants to be able to get on the housing ladder. infection rates remain low, people should be able to get The Government’s cutting stamp duty land tax in this on with their lives, wherever possible. There are few way will mean that nine out of 10 people buying their aspirations more important to the British people than main home will pay no stamp duty at all, and buyers home ownership, and this Bill will ensure that those can save up to £15,000. In my own constituency, the looking to buy a family home will see their stamp duty average family looking to buy a home worth £349,000 bill disappear altogether. It is part of our plan to turn will go from paying £7,450 in stamp duty to absolutely our national recovery into millions of stories of personal nothing. Indeed, this Bill will take most properties renewal. In doing so, it will stimulate the housing market, outside of London and the south-east out of stamp safeguarding many thousands of jobs and helping Britain duty entirely. to bounce back stronger than before. For all these The Bill is the latest in a long line of measures from reasons, I commend the Bill to the House. this Government designed to support current and prospective homeowners in this country. Historically, 5.47 pm stamp duty has been charged at a single rate on the Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): I welcome whole purchase price of a property, with different rates this opportunity to debate one of the key planks of the for different value bands. The same rate of tax was Government’s summer economic update presented to charged irrespective of the number of properties owned this House last week. 1295 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1296 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill As the Opposition, we have repeatedly said that we Helen Miller, deputy director and head of tax at the will work with the Government where we can to support Institute for Fiscal Studies, called the plans “mad.” The people through a crisis the like of which none of us has former Member for South West Hertfordshire and former ever known. That is exactly why we called on the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, David Gauke, said: Chancellor to abandon his one-size-fits-all approach to “Even 2 days of speculation” support for businesses and workers. It is why we called on him to recognise that this is a sectoral crisis that over such plans would be affects some areas of the economy much more than “unhelpful but 4 months…would be hugely counter-productive.” others, and it is why we called on him to come forward with a full back-to-work Budget that would really target Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): I am interested Government support to those who need it most. in the theme of the debate the hon. Member is pursuing. Instead, what we got was a limited statement that fell The negative connotations that he presents apply exactly far short of grasping the scale of the challenge the country to the system that already exists in Wales. The Welsh faces at this time of national crisis. We got blanket Government have not yet offered any reduction in land giveaways, such as the job retention bonus that risks transaction tax, in spite of their being given the resources handing billions of pounds to companies for employees by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor. Will the hon. who would have been brought back to work anyway. Member therefore call on them to follow the model that And we got this Bill, which the Government hope will is being pursued in this place? Or will he say that they get the housing market back on its feet and support should not do it and that people should remain—to use wider economic growth. the hon. Member’s phrase—in a state of limbo? Let me be clear from the outset that we do not oppose the principle of additional support for homeowners and Dan Carden: I am grateful for that intervention; I will buyers, and action to stimulate the housing market. Many go through my argument and analysis of the Government’s people hoping to buy their first home or move home proposals in the Bill. will have been stopped in their tracks by Government We do not know—perhaps the Minister does—who advice at the outset of this crisis not to move house—a briefed what to whom last week, but the fact that measure rightly designed to keep people safe. Since then, the policy was leaked in advance forced the Chancellor’s those wishing to buy or sell have been trapped in a state hand. Just a day after The Times article appeared, of limbo for months on end. Many transactions will another one in The Telegraph said that the cut would be have collapsed during the hard lockdown period, with introduced “immediately”. Policy making by briefing is significant potential financial losses in conveyancing no way to run a Government; it is either clumsy or fees, solicitor fees and other costs involved in buying or irresponsible, or another example of No. 10 advisers selling a home. We understand those difficulties and running roughshod over the Chancellor. uncertainties. The impact of the events of the past few Wewould rather the Government focused their energies months on house prices and on household incomes will on helping those people trying to buy or sell their home mean that many people can no longer afford to move. in such difficult circumstances, which is why, rather Their dream home may now have to remain just that—an than opposing the Bill, we want to probe the Government impossible dream—so it is right that we consider carefully on who will benefit the most from it. We are concerned how we can help them, but I do not think the Government first and foremost about whether the Bill will target have given careful consideration to the Bill or its impact support at those who need it most. We have serious on the housing market. concerns about the cost to the Exchequer and whether The Bill existed only in the Chancellor’s mind a week it is justifiable in terms of the Government’s other ago. It is a Bill that the Chancellor did not intend to spending priorities. present to the House today; it was supposed to be part We have serious questions about why the Bill includes of the autumn Budget process later this year. We know significant support for second homeowners—plans that that because the Government themselves told us—or at were slipped out by the Treasury after the Chancellor least someone in Government did. We only have to cast delivered his statement. We need to understand why the an eye back to The Times article last Monday on the Government have decided, as my hon. Friend the Member Chancellor’s plans for a for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) said last week, “Stamp duty ‘holiday’ to help rebuild economy”, to direct a huge bung to second homeowners, landlords and holiday-home buyers while millions of people are to be introduced “in the autumn Budget”. desperate for support. The provisions in the Bill are an unnecessary subsidy for second homeowners that will As is so often the case with this Government, whoever only worsen the housing crisis by reducing the supply of briefed the press about the plans had not read the small homes overall. print. Had they done so, they surely would have realised that announcing a stamp duty holiday three months early would crash the housing market this summer. It Kevin Hollinrake: Does the hon. Gentleman realise was left to others to point out the flaw in the Chancellor’s that 90% of the people who benefit from the change will cunning plan. My hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor be buying their main home, not a second home? Does was quick to respond, saying: he think it is a good idea to cut stamp duty at this moment in time? If he does, can he explain why, with “Even the possibility of a stamp duty change later this year” the Conservative Government cutting it in this recession would and having cut it in the first recession that I went through in 1992, the Labour Government did not cut “shut down the housing market in one fell swoop.” stamp duty in 2008? 1297 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1298 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill Dan Carden: Our amendment will be about getting to The Government should be taking action to remedy the bottom of exactly who benefits. The hon. Gentleman the housing crisis, as part of a wider plan to solve the gives a statistic there and we have others. I will ask the economic crisis, but as the Bill stands, we cannot be Minister to explain why he thinks that a potential cost confident that it will do much at all for first-time buyers, to the taxpayer of £1.3 billion for second homeowners never mind the millions facing a housing emergency. It is the right priority during a global pandemic. may remove a disincentive to move house and temporarily increase transaction volumes, but of course house sales Matt Western: My hon. Friend is being generous in are currently depressed for other reasons, such as the giving way. That is the nub of the point, is it not? There difficulty of getting a mortgage, people not thinking is need to stimulate the housing sector but, as has been that their job is secure and huge uncertainty about said, we need to look at every sector individually to see future house prices. how it can be supported. Back in 2008, a huge amount That is why we propose an amendment to help us to of money was put behind manufacturing, and that is understand the full impact of this cut in stamp duty what is lacking here, and in what was announced last across the sector. It is a straightforward amendment, week. which will ensure that we get a clearer picture of how Dan Carden: Of course this is about priorities for that stamp duty holiday will work for different groups. Government spending. Time and again, we have called If the Government believe in transparency in policy on the Government to put forward a credible plan to making, they have nothing to fear by backing the build the homes that our country needs. We are also amendment. concerned about which parts of the country this Bill A change as significant as this should not be introduced will benefit the most. The Institute for Fiscal Studies without a mechanism for assessing how it works and has said that first-time buyers might be made worse off who benefits most. When it comes to the housing sector, by the changes. Government should be focused on the almost 5 million As the stamp duty threshold for first-time buyers is people in housing need across Britain today. We are in already set higher—at £300,000—raising the threshold the midst of a housing emergency—an emergency created to £500,000 is worth comparatively less for first-time by decades of underinvestment in affordable social housing. buyers outside London. In fact, it is possible that the The impacts are stark and have been exacerbated by the Chancellor is removing one of the few advantages that covid-19 pandemic, with many people forced to shield first-time buyers have. Will the Minister comment on and isolate in wholly inappropriate living conditions. the IFS analysis and tell us: will first-time buyers benefit The Government should bring forward emergency at all? legislation to provide protection for those who get into arrears as a result of loss of income during the covid-19 Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con): Does the hon. crisis. They should change the law to prevent no-fault Gentleman not recognise that, in order for housing evictions and change the law on arrears so that people supply to be available to first-time buyers, existing in the rented sector—both social and private tenants—are homeowners need to be able to move house to move up given breathing space without the threat of eviction if the housing chain? By supporting them to do so through they are unable to pay rent as a result of the crisis. these measures, it makes it easier for first-time buyers to Instead, millions fear the lifting of the ban on evictions get their first home. on 23 August. Labour’s priority is in investment in social housing, not more support for second home Dan Carden: I heard someone say, “We need to build owners. more houses” and that is absolutely correct. But of course, we support anything that stimulates the housing 6 pm market and jobs in the supply chain thereafter. Eight hundred thousand fewer people under the age Craig Mackinlay (South Thanet) (Con): I warmly of 45 own their own home today. This Government welcome this reduction in stamp duty land tax as part have been in power since 2010. Home ownership is at of the covid-19 stimulus provisions. The Minister has its lowest level in a generation. The Prime Minister has outlined very ably the stagnation that we have seen in repeatedly pledged to “level up” the country. But the the housing market over the past few months, with benefits of this cut will be concentrated in London and lockdown viewings obviously impossible. That has led the south-east. to a very serious situation for conveyancers, solicitors, removal companies and all those involved in the supply Estate agent Savills identified the local authorities chain of getting houses sold. that will see the biggest fall in tax receipts as a result of the change. Wandsworth, Bromley and Wiltshire will I very much welcome what is, actually, a simplification. see falls of £40 million, £35 million and £29 million We have gone down from six rates to just four. It gives respectively. Rightmove estimates that the average saving us an opportunity to ask ourselves what is stamp duty in the north-east will be just £646, compared with land tax for and what is it doing to the residential £15,000 in London. Once again, the Government seem market. We levy taxes in this country broadly for two to be prioritising the needs of London and the south-east reasons. Obviously, the first is to fill the public purse so over those of the rest of the country. that the public services that we all know and love—the defence of the realm, our policing, the NHS and everything Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): else—can be paid for. We all realise that that tax cake Will the hon. Gentleman give way? has to be made up across myriad taxes, allowances and complications—a fairly mind-boggling number of them— Dan Carden: I will not because I want to make some and I am not sure that our 23,000 pages of tax legislation progress. I know I am taking up a lot of the time in this are much to be proud of. None the less, SDLT has debate. proven itself to be a useful fill-up to the public purse, 1299 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1300 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill and it has been increasing in recent years. The residential pays more than someone who buys exactly the same market for the last four quarters has provided £8.4 billion type of property in, say, County Durham or elsewhere? in SDLT receipts for the Treasury. They obviously face a higher charge because the value is We often use nudge theory—the second arm of tax greater, but then they are penalised for the property if you like—to change behaviour. We use taxes to price because they enter a higher band. That unfairness change behaviour, and we saw that with the £300,000 is simply due to what could be called national and local threshold for first-time buyers, which was introduced in planning failure over many decades. That extra SDLT November 2017 to help and encourage people into their has to be paid out of net salary that has been saved, or first homes.Wehave also used SDLTwith the 3% surcharge perhaps out of additional loans—or, for those lucky that came into place under the higher rate for additional enough, from the bank of family. dwellings rules that was introduced in April 2016. It is Labour mobility will be really important in the future. difficult to see exactly what the effect of that higher rate I do not think we will see how important until this has been because we do not have the equivalent data period of crisis with covid-19 is over. Employment will from before that change happened in the second purchase change and opportunities will change, and there will be market. None the less, it was imposed for good reasons a need for people to pursue jobs elsewhere. SDLTrestricts and we can discuss that. It was used to dampen down their choice, because someone has to be not just a bit the potential buy-to-let market, allowing more properties sure but very, very, very sure that the purchase they are to be available to those genuinely seeking owner-occupation. making, with the incumbent SDLT, is really the right Of that £8.4 billion raised in SDLT over the past four one. Wedare not make a mistake when there are potentially quarters, £3.8 billion has been in that 3% higher rate fives or tens of thousands of pounds at stake. charge. I encourage the Chancellor, in his Budget later this The Government have also introduced other tough year, to ensure that job mobility forms part of the tax tax measures, such as limiting the higher rate tax relief system. Someone may have to rent a property elsewhere for landlords on their interest payments. That has come to test the area and the market, and they may have to in over a phased period from 6 April 2017. There has rent out the old property that they leave elsewhere. been a restriction of lettings relief, operative from April 2020, Surely, there should be a tax relief on that new rent that for those who used to live in their own home and have they pay, against the rental income on the property that now rented it out and it has subsequently been sold. they had to leave to seek employment elsewhere. That There has been a number of red tape increases, so, for could certainly be used elsewhere to help to nudge many small landlords, the pursuit of having rental behaviour. properties has been somewhat dimmed over the past If we are going down the route of nudging through few years—so perhaps these measures have had the the tax system, let me suggest something that I have effect. There is no doubt that the £300,000 first-time often proposed: downsizing relief for the elderly. Far buyer limit has been beneficial in many areas. too many elderly people are stuck in a property that is We have therefore used SDLT, as a nation, to flex far too big for their current needs. They might have lost behaviour—to encourage what we perceive to be good their partner, and they are now residing in a property behaviour and discourage what is perceived to be bad that is simply too big. However, faced with the potential behaviour, and that is not uncommon across the tax for a big SDLT charge if the rates come back into play system. We see high rates of tax on alcohol and cigarettes after March, many older people will say, “Well, I’m to try to discourage bad behaviour, but then we enter simply not going to pay it. I don’t want to pay £5,000 or that debate about what is fair. What is fair in capital £10,000 just to move.” They will stay stuck in an taxes? We have capital taxes on inheritance tax, capital inappropriate property, effectively blocking the bigger gains tax and, obviously, SDLT.Are they simply measures properties that many families are crying out for. to fill the Treasury pot? Are they designed to be penal My message to Ministers today is that the new rates measures? Are they designed to be redistributive measures? for SDLTshould become permanent, for regional fairness, Obviously, there is a wide debate to be had about for job flexibility—that will be really important—and the suite of taxes that we have, and we probably have to encourage property transactions. We all know that 650 different views in the House about what is fair and property transactions create positive taxable work into reasonable. the future, through either VAT or profits that are taxed The reduction in SDLT, with the first £500,000 at 0%, through self-employment or a corporate regime. has “nudge” written all over it, because it is deemed a My concern is that we are now creating a cliff edge. I good thing to encourage people to keep the housing think that, in the first weeks of April next year, we will market rolling round. The rates that were in effect have all face stories of people who just could not quite get obviously been perceived as an impediment to the normal the job done before the cliff edge of 31 March, perhaps functioning of that market, so, very thankfully, SDLT because a house that was meant to be built had problems has been removed for most people until 31 March. or the builder was delayed; myriad issues could emerge. I do not think it even needs stressing that property I feel very sorry for those who, for reasons not of their transactions create a lot of business activity. That is own making, will find themselves on the wrong side of taxable business activity: the conveyancers; the estate that cliff edge date that we are creating. So I sincerely agents; the builders; the VAT on DIY sales. Commonly, welcome these changes, but please let us make them the kitchen or bathroom gets changed as one of the first permanent. measures, and the lids come off the tins of paint that are purchased elsewhere. 6.10 pm But have we created fairness? Is the progressive SDLT Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): It is banding system, which is continuing, fair? Is it fair that a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for South Thanet someone who buys a certain type of property in Kent (Craig Mackinlay). I have some sympathy with several 1301 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1302 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Matt Western] puts their house on the market, that they will transact, sell it and move. That has a knock-on effect into the rest of his points, particularly the one about the cliff edge. of the economy. We must always be careful, when we introduce any sort of action to stimulate any market, to ensure that it does Matt Western: I thank the hon. Member—I would not have unintended consequences. However, I disagree perhaps describe him as a friend—for that point. Yes, it with his points about capital wealth and growth. I have is the purchaser who pays, but the person who is selling a fundamental view about earned income resulting from will probably be buying too, such is the chain of sales in a person’s labour: capital wealth and growth should the sector. I therefore do not see it as a one-off benefit. have no advantage, in the form of a lower taxation It will be a benefit throughout the chain. regime, over income earned through labour. I fear that this move is not in tune with the wider The last economic crisis had a huge impact not only public mood. Actually, they want to see more support on the housing sector but on every sector. Many current for those on lower incomes. Perhaps the £1.3 billion that Members were in the House during that time—I was would have been yielded could have been used to better not—and we need to understand what the learnings of purpose. that crisis were. One thing that we have clearly observed Looking at the relative inequality of the past decade, is the extraordinary growth in capital wealth over the it seems we have not learned from the last economic past 10 years, and this is where I have a frustration. crisis. That is underlined by figures from the Resolution What I really wanted to see in the Chancellor’s statement Foundation, which show the change in median household last week was a series of sector deals to address each wealth between 2008 and 2018. The average household market. Housing would certainly have been one of them, saw a loss in wealth of 2% in the west midlands, 12% in as would its associated industries, but I mentioned in the north-east and 13% in the east midlands, while in my intervention just how important I believe manufacturing London the average household gained 78%. is and should be. If the Government’s ambition is to level up, we need to know what is going to happen to For me, there is an issue with the second homes our crucial and vital manufacturing sector, whether sector. Previously, a second home owner or buy-to-let aerospace or the automotive sector. Those are the sectors landlord would have paid an additional 3% stamp duty that urgently need the Government’s attention, because surcharge, which would translate into a figure of 8%, they are the ones that stepped up to the plate when rather than 5%. These changes mean that anyone looking required to do so.When the Government needed help—with to buy a second home at between £250,000 and £500,000 getting ventilators and personal protective equipment will pay just 3%. Coming back to a point that was made manufactured, for example—it was our manufacturing earlier, we need to know the scale of the issue. What sector that we turned to. Of course the construction proportion of transactions are for second properties? In industry plays an important role, and infrastructure the last 12 months, 34% of all purchases were made by investment is vital, but our manufacturing sector has to second home owners. That has to be a concern, because be there for us tomorrow, and that is where I want to see it affects the market to the detriment of first-time buyers. more urgent and substantial action from the Government. Andrew Griffith: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s Last week’s announcement contained an array of concerns about rewarding behaviour that was going to measures, but I was disappointed that the Government happen anyway, but does he accept that the identical did not extend the furlough scheme for longer. The hon. criticism could be levelled at a scrappage scheme, which Member for South Thanet talked about the cliff edge in I believe he has advocated? March, but I fear that the cliff edge that we are going to see in terms of unemployment over the coming weeks Matt Western: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s will be quite terrifying. I was also deeply disappointed point, but he will know that the automotive sector has that no support was provided for our steel industry, our been frustrated for many months. Many buyers in the aerospace sector and particularly our automotive sector, automotive sector are holding off because they do not which I guess is the one closest to home for me in my know whether they should be buying a petrol car, a constituency, where so many jobs depend on it. diesel car, an electric vehicle, a hybrid or whatever. A lot This announcement on stamp duty is a terrific windfall of people have held off changing their vehicle because for those who are thinking about buying or selling, but of the huge changes brought about by the transition in also for those who are already in the process of doing that sector. That is why it is important to the automotive so. I have been speaking to people over the past week, manufacturing sector that we help buyers change their and I have already come across several who have said, vehicle. All that is happening at the moment is that the “This is wonderful! We were going to sell the house purchasing decision is being stalled ever longer. It is not anyway.” Now they will benefit from an average of the same in the housing sector. £4,600. Of course, there is a huge difference between those who are going to sell their house and maybe get a This £1.3 billion could have been used to fund local benefit of £4,600 and those who are selling a property at authorities, which are seeing a financial hit of £1.2 billion around £500,000, who will suddenly get the benefit of as a result of covid, and to help them through these an extra capital gain of £15,000. If this is supposed to difficult times. be about levelling up, I cannot believe that giving an The Institute for Fiscal Studies has concluded that additional, enhanced reward to those who are already first-time buyers may be worse off as a result of these wealthy is really on the Government’s agenda. proposals. The stamp duty threshold for first-time buyers is currently £300,000, whereas the average price of a Kevin Hollinrake: The hon. Gentleman is aware that property is just £208,000 across the country. That means it is the purchaser who pays stamp duty, not the seller. that most are unlikely to gain from the hike in the This measure will make it more likely, when a person threshold from £300,000 to £500,000. 1303 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1304 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): I am confused as to how 6.23 pm the hon. Gentleman draws the conclusion that somebody will be worse off from paying exactly the same as they Sara Britcliffe (Hyndburn) (Con): The measures that otherwise would have done. The hon. Member for the Government recently announced are an enormous Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden) said exactly the same leap forward to get our country up and running again. thing—that first-time buyers will lose out. They will not This pandemic is threatening so many jobs and livelihoods, lose out. They were exempt before, and they will still be even in my constituency of Hyndburn and Haslingden. exempt. It is poor form on his part to mislead first-time The past few months have been necessary to save lives, buyers into thinking that they are being penalised in but now we need to look to the future and how we can some way by this measure. kick-start the economy. The toils of buying a property are numerous and Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I have been experienced by many. They include working hope the hon. Gentleman is not accusing the hon. with estate agents, solicitors, mortgage brokers, surveyors— Member for Warwick and Leamington (Matt Western) the list goes on. This Government are making it easier of misleading anyone. and less expensive for buyers who might have been put off purchasing due to uncertainties in the market. Removing Rob Roberts: Certainly not, Madam Deputy Speaker. stamp duty will save people thousands of pounds—moneys that they can invest in their local economy, which this Government are pushing everybody to do. Matt Western: Thank you for your help in clarifying that point, Madam Deputy Speaker. What is happening According to The Guardian, which I admit is not my is very simple. The hon. Gentleman is suggesting that usual morning read, Accrington has been recorded by there is an advantage that there is certainly not, because property website Zoopla as among those receiving the what will happen is that those who would have gained most property inquiries in the country since lockdown. the benefit—in other words, those who are below the People are, very understandably, looking to move to my threshold—will see others who can afford a higher cost pay constituency or relocate locally within Accrington. Either more, therefore possibly precluding them from purchasing way, the scheme is good news, as many properties will a property. As a result of this measure, I think we will become more affordable thanks to the temporary removal see higher house prices and higher rents. At a time when of stamp duty. I am dismayed that the shadow Minister there is pressure on wages and probably a significant expressed disapproval at our cut to stamp duty—a spike in unemployment coming up, that is a real concern. policy that will put more money in the pockets of I also think that the benefits will be felt more in the hard-working families. south-east and London. The Conservative party’s priority is clear: create and There is a huge squeeze on the availability of mortgages protect jobs, and support people in finding the ones that right now. I am not sure to what extent the hon. are out there. By kick-starting the housing market and Member for Delyn (Rob Roberts) is familiar with it. I boosting confidence, we will drive growth and create am not hugely familiar with it—I will be open and jobs. As the Prime Minister’s new deal confirms, a honest—but my understanding is that the availability of £12 billion affordable homes programme will support mortgages is under pressure.First-time buyers are struggling up to 180,000 new affordable homes for ownership and to get hold of mortgages, for which they need a much rent over the next five years. That builds on the 464,500 higher deposit than they would have needed three or six new affordable homes built since 2010 and opens up months ago. They are now looking for a deposit of thousands of new jobs. 15%. Back in my day, it was possible to get a mortgage I am proud to have had the opportunity to speak in with a deposit of a couple of per cent., or maybe even this debate, as this plan will give confidence to new 0%, such was the need to get the housing market going buyers and those moving up the property ladder. I at the beginning of the 90s. thank the Treasury on behalf of those in my constituency The handling of this has not helped. Clearly there benefiting from this scheme. I also thank it for the was a need for sectoral schemes and stimulus to help the tremendous work it has done during the pandemic to wider economy, but this seems to have been rushed out. save jobs and livelihoods across Hyndburn and Haslingden, These advantages for second home owners, buy-to-let for which many are eternally grateful. landlords and so on seem to have been slipped out after the Chancellor’s announcement. I do not think that this 6.26 pm will be to the benefit of first-time buyers, and that is a massive disadvantage of the whole scheme. It will Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): I potentially worsen the housing crisis, and I echo the rise to speak not as somebody who opposes owner point made by the hon. Member for South Thanet: occupation but as somebody who celebrates it. I am there is a real risk of a cliff edge come the end of March new Labour to my core. I want choice and opportunity next year. for all, and this stamp duty measure does not do that. I would like to see these moneys being redirected into Members would have to believe that we have a perfect social rented council houses, because we desperately housing market in which supply matches demand, but need to address this crisis. That would have been terrific. we do not have enough properties of any tenure—whether I am not sure that the public will really welcome this, to rent, buy or socially rent. This measure will squeeze because it is a short-term benefit, and there are much out the people we all want to benefit. wider issues in the economy that need to be addressed. I Who benefits from this measure? People in London. urge the Government to rethink this strategy and bring Who does not benefit? People in the north-east and the forward measures for the wider economy—particularly, north-west, who already do not pay those levels of as I keep saying, for the manufacturing sector. stamp duty. 1305 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1306 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con): from coronavirus by using their own bathroom and Will the hon. Lady give way? having access to their own kitchen; they are never, ever going to have a bathroom and kitchen of their own, in Siobhain McDonagh: No. the 21st century. The measure allows us to believe that we can change These are people who strive and work, who get up the housing market by tinkering at the edges, but we early in the morning, who come home late at night to know that tax forgone is money that cannot be spent on earn what none of us would go out to work to earn, and something else. who live in conditions that are truly appalling. These people will never get access to housing because their Owner occupation has reduced since 2000 from a landlords are not going to evict them. Their landlords height of more than 70% to 62%, while private renting are making loads of money from them, so why would has gone up by 20%. People aged between 35 and they evict them? Nevertheless, if we want these people 44 have seen a three times increase in their private rents. to believe that there is hope—that there is a better future, I say to hon. Members, from a south London perspective, that there is a reward for work—we must give them that no good comes from that. The families I see in some opportunity to buy their home or rent a decent private rentals will never escape into owner occupation, place at a price they can afford. as I and my parents had the opportunity to do. We talk about mortgages that are two and a half or The only way to solve the housing market is by three times people’s salaries. I see people who are paying building more homes of all tenures—renting and buying. 70% or 80% of their take-home pay to keep their It is not just me, a Labour MP, who believes that. accommodation. Their hopes for their kids and their Sir John Armitt, the chair of the National Infrastructure hopes for their futures are dampened. We can all pretend Commission said only last week that the planning system that this does not matter, that we live in a stable society was not the main obstacle to affordable homes and that and that it will be okay, but it will not be okay, because there was no point hoping coronavirus has shed so much light on how unfair and “somebody’s going to decide that they’re going to build lots of unequal our society is, and those of us who have are homes, even though there isn’t a market for the homes or they’re threatened as much by that as those who do not have, not going to make a profit…The last time we built 300,000 homes plus was in the 1960s and 1970s, 50 per cent of those were private because we cannot sustain a democracy in that environment. sector homes, 50 per cent delivered by local authorities…To get to So this stamp duty measure is, in the overall picture, a 300,000 personally, I don’t see how we get there in a meaningful small issue, but if it goes to those who already own their way without some sort of government intervention with local home or want to buy a bigger and better home at the authorities, or with the housing associations, to deliver more expense of the young people trying to make out in life, affordable homes on a large scale.” we will all suffer. We need to look at this situation and When first-time buyers come to us as Members, they be broad-minded and ask how we solve this problem will talk to us not about the fact that stamp duty forever. is going up, but about the fact that they cannot get a I want to leave Members with a statistic. One in 10 mortgage: that the banks and building societies are adults in this country owns a second home while four in requiring deposits not of 5% or 10%, but of 15% — 10 adults own no home. That is not a sustainable future increasing deposits, and at increasingly high percentages for our country, for our democracy or for the families in to get those mortgages. Let us contrast that with the that position. situation for private landlords: a bank is more happy to lend, as they have more equity and more money, so they are a safer bet. 6.34 pm With an employment market that is going to be so Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): I have to declare difficult in the autumn, and with young people being that I have first-hand experience; I was helped to buy disproportionately impacted by losing their jobs, there my first flat in the 1990s when the Chancellor was Nigel is a real problem. I say this not to score political points, Lawson and the Conservatives introduced a stamp duty but because I am personally worried that the divisions holiday then. My flat was tiny and it was right on the in our society will undermine our society. If we make it top floor—there was no lift—but it was my own. harder for people to own, they will resent those who do In the wake of the covid-19 lockdown across the UK, so. If young people cannot get on to the property ladder many sectors are facing significant challenges, and the because they cannot save or keep enough to pay their UK Government have done and continue to do much to rent and also save for a deposit, they will resent their help across the board. My constituency, like many grandmother or grandfather for their ability to live in coastal communities in the UK, has been particularly their house, and that does not help anybody. badly hit because it is highly reliant on tourism income. I would like to end by talking about the people who The UK Government have provided a range of support cannot even be part of this debate, who come to my to help people survive the impact of the crisis, through advice surgery, as they probably go to other Members’ stage 1 of their recovery plan, from furlough payments advice surgeries: people who are living in one room in a to resilience funds. Stage 2 of the plan encompasses a shared house with their children. I do not know whether number of different packages to support the economy as it is a London or south-east phenomenon, but I wish we emerge from lockdown, including the kick-start scheme others could join me on a Friday to talk to people who to help 16 to 24-year-olds into employment by paying work as carers, in shops and in the hospitality trade, the first six months of their wages and the stamp duty and who are disproportionately from black and ethnic land tax temporary relief that we are debating today. minority communities, who have their family in one Coastal communities such as mine, which are highly room and share that house with perhaps four or five tourism dependent, face two significant housing-related other families.Not for them the ability to protect themselves challenges as we emerge from lockdown. The first is the 1307 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1308 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill challenge of a significant downturn in direct income come back, and there is huge pent-up demand from due to the shortened holiday period this year, which will people like me. I bought a house in February with the have an impact on the ability of local people to pay intention of doing it up, and I have to tell the House mortgages and to purchase property. The second, more that this has been a very frustrating three months for hidden issue relates to holiday homeowners. In some me: I really want to get a new bathroom very soon, and coastal areas, the level of second home ownership is I plan to do so. high. Many of these owners have been hit by having no I am not certain that the housing market is the market holiday rental income, while being expected to pay that really needs supporting at this time. I am not higher premium council taxes and potentially having certain that the construction market and the other reduced income from their primary employment. That markets that the Minister referred to are the best uses of brings a risk of a surplus of properties coming on to the this money. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for local market, resulting in a localised property price Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) and support crash. That is one issue the Bill will help to address. It what she said. When we think about the individuals will give a much-needed boost to the housing market by who are most in need of Government support, it is not significantly reducing the stamp duty on property purchases, those who are able to secure mortgage finance. In the and the Chancellor’s decision to offer this temporary mortgage market, people have to have a fair amount of relief at a time when it is so needed will make a great money already in the bank to put down a deposit, but contribution to restarting the UK economy. they also have to have a reasonable expectation of I wish to end by thanking the Treasury and welcoming future income in order to be able to service a mortgage. the Bill. I urge the Welsh Government to follow the I think we can all agree that unemployment undermines example set by the UK Government and introduce a the housing market more than anything else—more than similar scheme in Wales, to stimulate the housing sector, the need to pay stamp duty. We all know that because so that my constituents and those all across Wales can we saw it last week—even the day after the Chancellor’s be supported at such a crucial time. statement, we saw some of our major retailers announce job cuts—and we all know that there is more to come. 6.38 pm That, far more than anything else, is going to undermine Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD): I should declare our housing market and with it all the sectors the an interest, in that I moved house earlier this year, Minister mentioned. about four weeks before lockdown started, when the We know that unemployment is the biggest drain on purchase of a family home in a constituency whose our economy, and we all know that there have been house prices are significantly above average meant that sectors and individuals that have struggled far more I paid a fair chunk of change in stamp duty. Given that than others during this time. I just want to draw attention this year, more than any other, we have all had cause to again to that group of people—we estimate there to be be grateful for and celebrate our public services, I am about 3 million of them—who were left out of all plans glad to have made that payment and to have been able for support. As summer turns to autumn, when their to support our NHS in such a way. Having had that mortgage holidays end or when their landlords are no experience, I have had a lot of thoughts about stamp longer barred from evicting them, they face real fears duty as a tax, not all of them supportive, as I do not about how are they going to pay their mortgages or think it is a very fair or efficient tax. As the representative rents, as well as about the businesses they set up or the of a constituency with considerably higher than average new jobs they accepted at the beginning of this crisis. In house prices, it is a tax that affects my constituents far my constituency, I have a lot of people who were on more than most. However, I am standing here today to contract work. All that has fallen away, and they have oppose this cut, because in the current circumstances I had no income now for months and months. have to ask: is this the best use of the £3.8 billion that the Chancellor will lose in revenue as a result? Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): Would the hon. Lady I have heard from estate agents in my area—again, we concede that those people she is talking about are have a reasonably healthy housing market in Richmond exactly why we need to get the housing sector going Park—and they are telling me that, even before the again? Those self-employed people who work as plumbers announcement last week, they were beginning to see a and electricians, who may not have been eligible for healthy return of interest from potential buyers. I am some of the support the Government offered, are the sad to say that that is probably because, as we know, the reason why we need to do this. three drivers of the housing market in normal times are death, divorce and debt. I do not need to explain to anybody here, because they will all have seen it in their Sarah Olney: No, I would not concede that, and I will constituencies, why those three particular drivers of the tell the hon. Member why: it is because we are talking housing market have been so prevalent this year and about sectors that are not going to be improved or will continue to be so next year. helped by a revival of the housing market. A lot of I am not entirely certain that the housing market is people in my constituency are working in the creative the sector we really need to be supporting with our tax industries, for example. revenue at this time. As I say, even without the stamp duty cut announced last week, we were already starting Siobhain McDonagh: I am not sure whether the hon. to see the revival of the housing market and all those Lady saw the article in The Sunday Times yesterday associated industries that the Minister mentioned in his identifying not only first-time buyers as people having speech—the solicitors, the removal firms and all the problems in securing mortgages, but self-employed people, construction firms such as plumbers, bathroom fitters because of banks and building societies being concerned and associated industries. They were already starting to about their future incomes. 1309 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1310 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill Sarah Olney: I thank the hon. Lady for making the a long way to bringing back confidence in the property point better than I could, in response to the hon. market and starting to drive growth in that sector once Member for Redcar (Jacob Young), because it is precisely more. Property transactions were down 50% in May that: uncertainty about people’s futures is the biggest this year compared with last May, and this is the right barrier to their securing the kind of mortgage finance way to kick-start sales again. they will need to purchase a house, stamp duty or no stamp duty. That is the absolutely crucial point, and it is At the heart of this decision are jobs, because buying why I am asking the Treasury whether it thinks the and selling homes creates jobs and economic activity, £3.8 billion could have been better spent. whether that is the estate agents, solicitors, mortgage advisers, surveyors, removal companies, electricians, To refer back to those self-employed people, some of builders, joiners, plumbers or painter- decorators. One them could have been helped. Some people have benefited house sale can make a huge economic ripple, which is from the furlough scheme and have been entitled to up why this intervention is so important. I am proud that to £2,500 a month. Some of our self-employed people the Government have delivered an unprecedented level have missed out on support, but they could have had of support for businesses and self-employed people that £2,500 a month for three months: we could have throughout this pandemic so far, but we must now helped 500,000 of them with the £3.8 billion that we are move on to the next phase of getting back to trading spending instead on this stamp duty holiday. That is and creating jobs, and we must do so in a way that keeps really important because, apart from anything else, we people safe. are talking not just about self-employed people, but about company directors and people who have set up As we progressively get back to business, cutting recently, and they are the people who will be creating stamp duty is part of a package of measures that will the jobs of the future. They will be the engine of this help our economy to get back on track. Thanks to this recovery. They are looking at the new opportunities measure, 90% of the people buying a main home this year available in the post-coronavirus world, and they have will pay no stamp duty at all. This will give thousands the energy, enthusiasm and the get-up-and-go to start of families across the country the necessary incentive to rebuilding business and our economy in a way that I buy or sell their home. Whether they are moving on to believe would have happened anyway with our housing the property ladder or moving up, selling their home or market. By not helping those people, we limit the prospects renovating, this activity will create jobs—the jobs that of new business, which is the engine of new jobs, and we we need to recover from this crisis. destroy livelihoods. That will stimulate the housing We should also keep in mind that stamp duty is an market because those people will now have to sell their important source of revenue for the Government, and houses because they cannot pay the mortgages that they when so many people are relying on public money for secured on them. I do not believe that that is quite what the duration of this crisis, it is important that we find the Minister had in mind. ways of unburdening the public purse. That is why, as Above all, the feeling among so many self-employed well as supporting existing jobs in the housing sector, people and company directors that I have been speaking we are taking this opportunity to build on top of that to is that we have undermined their confidence, and and deliver even more homes and create more good-quality, that will ultimately be the biggest impact of this. They sustainable jobs. thought that that this was a Government who prized Long-awaited reforms of the planning system will entrepreneurship, supported small businesses and wanted make it easier for landlords to convert existing commercial companies to thrive, and I am so disappointed, after property into housing and further stimulate the market, everything that has been said in this place by so many and our new green homes grant will mean that new MPs across all parties. My hon. Friend the Member for home owners can increase the energy efficiency of their Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) homes, creating more jobs for people who work in home set up his all-party group on this issue last week and has improvement. 200 MPs representing their constituents who have been excluded. I cannot tell the House how disappointed I As a result of the pandemic, some aspects of our am that after all that, the Chancellor of the Exchequer economy will change permanently, such as our approach came to the Dispatch Box last week and announced this to working from home. More sectors have gone into stamp duty cut instead of proper, real support for the standstill and require a restart. We are all aware of cases people we are going to be depending on in the weeks in our own constituencies where tradesmen in the housing and months to come. sector have not been eligible for support through the However much I personally feel that stamp duty is a self-employment income support scheme or the coronavirus bad and wrong tax, I still say that the £3.8 billion could job retention scheme. Getting the housing market restarted have been better spent at this time, and I am really is vital to their livelihoods, as I mentioned to the hon. disappointed that the Government did not take that Member for Richmond Park. This is our cause: to opportunity. protect, support and create jobs. Cutting stamp duty is not a bung for homeowners, as 6.46 pm Opposition Members would say; it is about the hundreds of thousands of jobs that rely on a thriving housing Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): It is a pleasure to follow market. Much lies ahead of us, and this could be the the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney). most challenging phase of our recovery yet. However, I As has been discussed, housing is one of the sectors that have every confidence that with a gradual approach and has been worst hit by coronavirus, so I welcome the Bill temporary, focused support from the Government where on the back of the Chancellor’s announcement last needed, we can not only recover but thrive in a new week to temporarily cut stamp duty.This measure will go post-covid economy. 1311 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1312 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill 6.50 pm this very reason. Long-lasting, real action is required as well as something like this, which I am sure will give a Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): It is short-term and necessary boost to economic activity. an honour to follow the hon. Member for Redcar (Jacob Young), who made some interesting points about I agree with the Town and Country Planning Association this move. Although, as Members from all parts of the and the Nationwide Foundation that we need to redefine House have said, there are other things we could do what affordability is. We talk about affordability as a with the money—there is an opportunity cost to spending percentage of market rent when actually we should be it—there is no doubt that it will make a difference to the talking about affordability in terms of how it relates to economy. The buying and selling of properties has a people’s incomes, obviously, because that is what makes knock-on effect and creates a multiplier, and that will something affordable or otherwise. This and previous create some movement. It is worth saying that that does Governments have used “affordable housing” as a term not mean it is the best use that could possibly be made that is utterly meaningless to the majority of people of this money, but given that the Chancellor and the who are supposedly in the market. Let us take this Prime Minister have discovered a veritable rainforest of opportunity to do something radical. money trees, this may be a good use for a few of them. I also agree with the Town and Country Planning For the good that the measure will do—it is important Association, and with Shelter, when they say that one of to concede that—what it will not do is to rise to the the most useful things that we could do—and since we challenge of the United Kingdom’s general lack of are in this mood for swift and radical legislation that affordable housing. It has been going on for some time, will make a difference, let us grab the moment—is to and this represents a failure to grasp the nettle. I am reform the Land Compensation Act 1961, which currently sure Members will know that Crisis and the National fixes the hope value of land at a level based on what Housing Federation have together come up with a would be the most lucrative value of that land rather conservative estimate that the UK needs 145,000 new than pegging it at the actual value of the land. That affordable homes per year, 90,000 of which need to be inflates land prices, inflates house prices, and stagnates social rented. Shelter takes the view—I think it is nearer the market. If we wanted to reduce the cost of land, to the money—that the number is closer to 300,000. reduce the cost of housing and therefore make it more Either way, we need a minimum of 90,000 additional affordable, make sure that every home is zero-carbon, social rented homes a year. The Government will deliver which the Government should also be doing at this 3,500 this year, but there are just over 3,000 on the time, and make it more likely that land will come social housing waiting list in my constituency alone. forward to be built on in the first place, that is the one That is the scale of the problem, and this measure does thing we would do: it is close to being a silver bullet. In not help—it does not hinder, but it does not help. this time of swift legislation and passing whole Bills in a matter of hours, that is what we should use one of these Mike Wood: Does the hon. Gentleman recognise that slots for. Radical change is important, and we in this what probably will help is the £12 billion affordable House have the opportunity—and, I think, the mood—to housing programme announced in the Budget only four do it. months ago? We should also be reforming viability assessments Tim Farron: Potentially—although, to go on a little and preventing developers from changing the goalposts diversion, we cannot build houses of any kind whatsoever after they have been given planning permission. I want without a workforce. One thing that I wish the Government to see developers forced to deliver not just zero-carbon would take seriously, in looking at their supply chain homes but homes that are genuinely affordable, and not and the means of reaching their targets, is that we are then going over the field, digging up a few rocks, and something like 40% below the workforce required to saying, “Oh, I’m sorry, I can’t afford to do the affordables construct even the Government’s existing programme anymore.” This is an opportunity for the Government of development. By the way, the Immigration and Social to make sure that any new building that takes place, and Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill, which we such as I trust will take place, will deliver homes that debated the other week, will take that down by another people can actually afford. 9%. The Government can announce whatever big numbers As has already been said by my hon. Friend the they like, but they cannot press-release their way out of Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), who made a recession; they have to plan their way out of it. There a really good and important contribution, this move is a lack of long-term or even medium-term planning, will not help any of the people facing financial ruin, but it is better to spend that money than not, and I such as the one in four in my constituency who work for concede that it will do more good than the proposal themselves, many of whom are directors of small limited that we are debating. companies, newly employed people or new starters. I represent a constituency where we have, bluntly, They are the entrepreneurs we need to rely on to build London house prices without London incomes. The back for our country and to build our economy, and average household income is about £25,000 a year, and they have been excluded. As she said, we had the launch the average house price across the constituency is about of the all-party group last week with 200 Members a quarter of a million. In the Lake district and the dales, there, many of them Conservatives. My message to which make up more than half the land mass of my friends and colleagues on the Conservative Benches is: constituency, we are looking at an average property this is your moment to put your money where your price of more like £400,000. Put bluntly, the average mouth is and to stand up for those 3 million excluded person in my constituency is stuffed when it comes to people in this country, and to say that the Chancellor buying a home, and this measure will not help. We lose must back them, because they are not in a position to one in three of our young people, never to return, for consider whether they are going to move house; they 1313 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1314 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Tim Farron] money and the transfer of deeds; it supports other associated industries, as has been said widely already, are in a position of wondering whether they can afford and a large number of jobs in many trades such as to feed their kids. This is the time when the Chancellor plumbers, builders and electricians. During the acute must act. phase of covid-19, many sectors of our economy were Just as distressing for us in south Lakeland is the forced to grind to a halt, including the housing market, bonus that is being given to people who own second where in May 2020 property transactions were down by homes. I want to be very clear here: I am not talking 50%. Other sectors have received welcome relief on a about holiday lets, which are crucial to the tourism sectoral basis from the Government’s measures to boost economy in the lakes and the dales and elsewhere, our economy, such as grants for the retail, leisure and bringing in visitors who spend their money locally. hospitality businesses, and the eat out to help out Holiday lets are part of a tourism economy that is scheme, which was announced last week. The housing worth £3 billion a year and more, and employs 60,000 market also needs a stimulus to catalyse its restart, so I people in Cumbria—our single biggest employer—so it welcome the temporary relief to stamp duty land tax, is vital that we support that industry. I am talking about which will do just that. homes owned by people as a second property that they In normal times, when the market is in equilibrium, visit maybe a few times a year—and good luck to them. stamp duty should be paid just like any other tax. Right I want those people to feel welcome: this is not a now, however, as we emerge from a period of sharp personal slight on them. But as somebody who lives decline in housing sales, the market is far from equilibrium among these communities, I cannot deny the evidence and it is right to take most property purchases out of of my eyes, which is that excessive second home ownership stamp duty to encourage transactions to return to normal kills communities. When 50% of the homes in Coniston levels. A cut to stamp duty is, of course, a response to are not lived in all year round, of course that is one of the covid-19 economic slowdown, but it is also the first the reasons why the schools in that community do not of many measures that the Government will introduce have the numbers they would otherwise, of course it is a to fix our housing crisis. Any action to reduce the cost reason why bus services shut, and of course it is a of moving will be welcome to my constituents in Penistone reason why shops, post offices and others struggle. That and Stocksbridge where, as elsewhere in the country, is why this boon and bonus to second home owners is many local people cannot afford to own their own home an insult to people in the lakes and the dales—the local or to move up the property ladder as their family grows. people struggling to get by there—and why this should Parents and grandparents are worried that the next be an opportunity not to give these people an additional generation will not be able to afford to stay local and incentive to take homes out of the local market, but to will instead have to leave our towns and villages and our tackle the incentives that currently exist. wonderful communities. Some 18 months ago, the Government concluded a The measure we are debating today will provide a consultation on whether they should close the loophole welcome short-term reduction to the cost of moving, that allows second home owners effectively to pretend but it will also encourage older people to downsize, that the home is a business and therefore avoid paying releasing larger properties for growing families. The any tax whatsoever. In the 18 months since—I accept hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain that it has been a busy 18 months—naff all has happened. McDonagh) rightly said earlier that there are many The Welsh Assembly Government closed that loophole properties outside London and the south-east that may and did so effectively. Why will the Government not not necessarily benefit from the cut, but even though take the opportunity to do that and help constituencies the average house prices are a lot less—in Penistone and like mine? That loophole needs to be closed. Stocksbridge I think the average house sale last September In summary,I am deeply concerned about this proposal. was £172,000— there are always, at the top of the chain, It will do some good and I can see the economic properties that are subject to stamp duty land tax. They arguments for it, so we will not formally oppose it when are often the properties that are the hardest to shift and it comes to any Division, but we must understand what take the longest to sell. Any reduction in the price of it is and what it is not. It will increase demand, but those properties to get them moving and get them among those it will help are those lucky enough to have shifted will affect the whole chain right down to the multiple homes. It does not help those who are desperate bottom to the first-time buyer. to put food on the table and pay the rent. The Government are not helping the excluded and this was the chance to As well as a short-term measure to restart the housing do that. The proposal has some economic value. It will market, there is strong consensus across the House that help to kick-start the economy in the short term and to fix our housing market in the longer term we must that is welcome insofar as it goes, but it is a scattergun build more homes. I am pleased, therefore, that the attempt to build back quicker, not build back better. If Government intend to bring in reforms of our planning we do not build anything new either, it is simply a case system that will enable more houses to be built more of “buy, buy, buy”, not “build, build, build.” quickly. That is particularly necessary in cities like Sheffield, where the local authority still has no local 7 pm plan, or even a draft local plan, which means there is no Miriam Cates (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con): It evidence-based understanding of or consensus on where is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Westmorland and what types of housing should be built. That puts and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), who made a very passionate greenfield sites in danger when brownfield sites are still speech. available. The health of our housing market is an indicator of Weneed to increase the supply of housing and evidence the health of our whole economy. Buying a property suggests that we need to build over 300,000 new homes or moving house does not just involve the exchange of each year, both to keep up with demand and to address 1315 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1316 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill the backlog. We are all aware that there has been a upsize as their family grows, taking almost every house sharp increase in the number of young people who are purchase in Burnley out of the stamp duty bracket living with their parents—a rise of nearly 50% in 20 years. completely. If ever there was a time to ensure that As has already been said, in many cases that is because people keep more of the money they earn, now is it. We not enough affordable homes are available. The have always been the party of opportunity, aspiration Government’s housing reforms and the Prime Minister’s and low taxation. Through this measure, we deliver on £12 billion affordable homes programme will rightly all three, protecting jobs in the process. address that issue and give young people the opportunity Over recent years, we have been tackling the issue of to own their own homes, with all the benefits of security, housing supply through schemes designed on the pride and a feeling of rootedness that home ownership Government side of the House, including Help to Buy brings. and through reform of the planning system, but this I take a moment to consider another less welcome crisis has brought a new challenge—a challenge of reason for the increase in demand for housing. Over the demand. House sales have plummeted rapidly, and it is past two decades, the number of people living alone in clear from this Bill that the Government are committed the UK has risen by 20%, and the number of 45 to to taking action. It will give homebuyers the confidence 64-year-olds living alone has increased by 53% over the to buy again. same period. One of the principal reasons for the increase The challenge of supply remains. The laws of economics is the number of middle-aged men who live on their say that that will remain the case unless action is taken. own, largely as a result of relationship breakdown. When Only by getting buyers buying again will we get our marriages and partnerships end, one household becomes builders building again, our roofers roofing again, our two, property costs can double, children no longer have electricians electrifying again and our joiners joining the benefit of both parents under one roof, and, for again. Getting people back to work. is what “jobs, jobs, those adults left living alone—often fathers—loneliness jobs”means—getting people back to work by stimulating and its associated effects on wellbeing can follow. the economy. For that reason, I will support this tax cut Inevitably, of course, not all marriages and cohabiting and the Bill. relationshipswilllast.Whenthereisirretrievablebreakdown, new households must be formed, but if relationship 7.9 pm breakdown is one of the key drivers for housing demand, Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): I am speaking in favour we must address the causes of such breakdowns, not of this relief of stamp duty because, as we all know, because of the impact on housing but because of the impact housing is a huge element of our economy. Making it on people. Relationship breakdown is costly—emotionally, easier to buy and sell will lend our economy a much psychologically and financially—and it has a huge impact needed boost across the board. The housing market, on children. As we look to address one of the UK’s like the rest of the economy, has endured a huge shock, greatest challenges—a lack of housing—let us also focus with the first fall in house prices in eight years and the our efforts on addressing another one and consider how number of transactions falling by 50%. We all knew Government, local authorities, the voluntary and faith that was going to be the case, but the case for intervention sectors, and local communities can better support couples was also clear. and families to stay together. Real estate in the UK is the cornerstone of our Throughout the crisis, my right hon. Friend the economy. Housing stock is worth more than £7 trillion, Chancellor’s timely measures have acted as a shock and the real estate sector is responsible for tens of absorber, lessening the impact of the most significant thousands of jobs. For many homeowners, confidence economic event of modern times. The temporary relief and security in the worth of their homes allow them to on stamp duty will give the housing market a much feel secure in how they live their lives. Housing is not needed boost and pave the way to deeper, more long-term just bricks and mortar, but the stable anchor that creates and more holistic reforms to end our housing crisis. the foundation for our lives. Stimulating the housing market will boost confidence throughout our economy 7.7 pm and create jobs. Antony Higginbotham (Burnley) (Con): Throughout I welcome the continued commitment to remediate the coronavirus pandemic, this Government have been brownfield sites, which will mean that more land becomes committed to protecting people’s livelihoods, whether available, increasing supply while alleviating pressure the help was to workers, the self-employed or businesses on our green belt. This cut will protect, support and large and small. In my constituency,we have all appreciated create jobs, from estate agents and surveyors to builders that support. Today’s debate on changes to stamp duty and manufacturers. Along with the green homes grant, is about yet another measure that the Government are the Government are providing the housing sector and taking to ensure that as we start to recover, people up homeowners with some welcome assistance and support, and down the country are given the confidence they as we make our way to recovery as a nation. It will mean need to get things back up and running. less money paid in tax and more money in the pockets The housing market is vital to the UK’s prosperity, of those who may want to spend it in other parts of the and I wholeheartedly welcome the plan to temporarily economy.More homeowners, fewer taxes, more security— increase the threshold. For my constituents who want that is a fundamentally Conservative solution to one of to buy a house, be that in urban Burnley or Padiham, or the biggest crises in a generation. rural Worsthorne or Cliviger, that means a saving of Economists like to make predictions, and normally I hundreds of pounds on a semi-detached property, or am cautious of such forecasts, mostly because ultimately thousands of pounds on a detached property. That our economy is made up of people. It is not just numbers means more money in the pocket of the hard-working and theory, but individuals who behave in ways that families across my constituency who are looking to spreadsheets and graphs cannot always predict, and I 1317 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1318 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Saqib Bhatti] jobs can be lost very quickly during economic downturns. It can take many, many more years to replace those jobs say that as someone who spent most of their professional and to bring people back into work. With a shock as life as a chartered accountant. However, one projection sharp and as deep as the one that we have seen over the that seemed a certainty was that our economy would past few months from this pandemic, measures such as suffer some potentially devastating consequences following this and the many others that the Chancellor has announced the shock of covid-19. Fortunately, in our Chancellor over the past four months are not only appropriate, but we have someone who has a calm head and a steady unprecedented and certainly necessary. hand at the helm, ready to weather the storm. If we are to prevent enormous numbers of people For me, this cut is not just about stimulating demand, from losing their jobs, enormous numbers of businesses nor is it just about recognising the importance of housing from closing for good, and enormous numbers of families as an economic asset. It is also about recognising that from being deprived of the security and prosperity of allowing people to own a house is to allow them to own paid employment, we need the economy to recover, a stake in society. Cutting stamp duty will have not only which means that we need consumers to start spending. huge economic benefits, but huge societal benefits. We We need consumers to have the confidence to return to cannot just talk about buyers and sellers as if they are something approaching economic normality. If people numbers on a chart. They are newly weds moving to a do not have confidence in the economy, they do not part new home to begin a new life, and children spending with their cash. When that happens, there is a risk of a Christmas in a new house, perhaps having their own vicious circle of economic decline, with inevitable large bedroom for the first time. They are retired grandparents, job losses as a consequence. It is crucial that we break downsizing so that a new family can move in and make that cycle and promote spending, which is why I support new memories. this legislation today. I encourage my right hon. Friend the Chancellor to This measure is designed to bring forward spending. review the positive impacts of the stamp duty holiday Certainly, the largest piece of spending that almost on the economy and to consider the benefits of maintaining anybody makes is investment in a home. We need to the cut for longer. When we are back in smooth waters, make sure that consumers have the confidence to make perhaps he will look at some of the long-term reforms those decisions over the next few months as we rebuild that may be available for the tax. our economy rather than put them off for a year or We say that a man or a woman’s house is their castle, more, because, naturally, caution, for many of the reasons and that is just as true now as it has ever been. The right that the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) to own a property is the cornerstone of individual mentioned, may make people concerned about such liberty. I do not mean mansions or second homes; I large spending as we come out of this health crisis. Our mean, as William Pitt once said: economy needs this economic activity to recover. It “It may be frail—its roof may shake—the wind may blow needs people to be spending. It needs a successful and through it—the storm may enter—the rain may enter—but the vibrant housing market, because, as many hon. Members King of England cannot enter!” have said, the housing market is not purely about those To own one’s home is more than a financial decision; it businesses and those industries that are directly associated is safety, security and independence, and I commend with it—the estate agents and the removal firms—but the Chancellor for his role in allowing more people to something that goes far beyond that. It goes through achieve all three of those things. construction, to the decorators, the small businesses, the self-employed carpet fitters and the gardeners. In many cases, much of their work centres around people 7.13 pm who are moving into new homes and wanting to make Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con): We have faced a them to their taste. huge human health crisis, and we are now working to As chair of the all-party group for furniture and prevent that horrific health crisis being accompanied by furnishings I know how much of furniture manufacturing a similar economic crisis. The Government have delivered and retail in this country depends on a successful and an extensive package of support measures for workers thriving housing market. By stimulating that market—by and for companies through the coronavirus job retention bringing forward to the next six or nine months the scheme. They have delivered support for the self-employed decision to buy a house that could be put off for a year through grants, loans and a wide range of measures to or more—we are protecting those jobs by giving confidence help protect jobs and ensure that despite the enormous to those companies, to those employers, and to those impact of this outbreak, businesses are able to see a way small businesses that there will be a housing market and through it and are able to continue to employ people, that there will be people wanting to redecorate, to refit and the self-employed or those in small businesses can their bathrooms, to redo the garden and to buy new see a way to get through the outbreak to rebuild in the furniture. This measure will give them the confidence to better times ahead. invest in their staff and to keep their workforce as close Sadly, of course, many people have already lost their to normal levels as much as possible. That seems to me jobs and, even more sadly, many more are likely to lose to be a good investment. When the question is asked as their jobs over the coming months, as businesses take to whether this is the right way for the Chancellor to time to adjust—to adapt their businesses to order books spend resources, I invite right hon. and hon. Members which, in many cases, are unlikely to return to pre-crisis to consider what the alternative is. I do not see the levels for some time. We need to do what we can to evidence locally that the housing market is instantly minimise those job losses and to help as many people as bouncing back without further intervention and support. possible to return to work and to stay in work, because I am not seeing a huge amount of confidence; quite the we know, as we have seen from previous recessions, that reverse. As the hon. Member for Richmond Park said, 1319 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1320 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill people are nervous about the plans that they had put in interior companies such as Secret Messages Interiors in place either to buy their first home or to move up the Buckingham or Mood Home and Lifestyle in Winslow, housing ladder. In many cases they are saying, “Perhaps which I visited recently. Even the lawyers—even the now is not the right time.” If the measures in the Bill lawyers, Madam Deputy Speaker—benefit. can help to bring forward those decisions and to make The economic chain set off by house building cannot sure that that spending happens as soon as possible, be stated often enough. However, stamp duty changes that will protect the jobs and the prosperity that our alone may not complete the picture. The estate agents I constituents rely on. That is why I will support the Bill have spoken to over the past few days have advised me this evening. that there are other factors hampering the full recovery of the housing market, particularly for first-time buyers, 7.20 pm the most significant of those being a banking sector Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): It is always a pleasure that is making it harder to borrow. While mortgage to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South lending clearly falls outside the scope of the Bill, in (Mike Wood). I fully agree with his comments. order to achieve the aim of the Bill, it is vital that the This House has in recent months been required very banking sector and lenders are listening and that they necessarily to pass legislation to restrict our freedoms in get behind what the Government are trying to do—a order to defeat the virus, so it is an absolute pleasure to point that my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and speak in support of an emergency measure that expands Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) made in his intervention. freedom. There is no more important asset to any There are no 95% loan-to-value mortgages available individual or family in this country than the roof over for first-time buyers today. Only three lenders even offer their heads. The ability, under the provisions of the Bill, 90% loan-to-value mortgages, so the majority of first-time to purchase a home worth up to £500,000 without the buyers face the daunting prospect of raising at least a burden of any stamp duty at all will not only support 15% deposit. That is £75,000 for a £500,000 four-bedroom our economic bounce-back but, more importantly, bring home in Steeple Claydon or £52,500 on a £350,000 the dream of home ownership a step closer for thousands three-bedroom cottage in Tingewick. The stamp duty of first-time buyers, give those who may be downsizing reduction on those two examples for first-time buyers is the confidence that they will not unnecessarily lose a massive boost, saving £10,000 in the case of the thousands of their precious savings, and enable growing £500,000 home and £2,500 in the case of the £350,000 families to move up the ladder. home. It undoubtedly closes the gap, but the wider This morning, I spoke to estate agents in my constituency point is that we are still talking about enormous sums —including Brian Russell of Russell & Butler in the of money—years and years of savings and sacrifice. To town of Buckingham—and the news of the temporary boost the market further, the banks must start to be stamp duty cut has been warmly received, with massive more realistic about permitting 90% and 95% loan-to-value interest from buyers and sellers over the past few days. mortgages once more, to truly open up the market. With 75% of the properties currently on that particular Most property transactions currently take an average estate agent’s books being under £500,000, it goes without of 16 weeks, which is much longer than it needs to be. saying just how significant this tax cut is locally in We are only 38 weeks from the end of this temporary Buckinghamshire. stamp duty cut, so time is of the essence to make the Last Friday, I was pleased to visit Barratt Homes and most of it. If any accompanying deregulation to speed David Wilson Homes at their development at Kingsbrook up transactions can be brought forward, that will only near Broughton in my constituency to see the measures help many more thousands of aspiring homeowners that they have put into place to ensure that house and movers. building continues at pace in a covid-secure way. Their In conclusion, this Bill is enormously welcome. It is sales team reported that they are seeing people coming bold in its aim of boosting our housing market and back through the doors again, enthused by the stamp supporting people to achieve home ownership. I will be duty holiday. voting for it with great enthusiasm, but at the same time, House of Commons Library data shows that across I encourage my right hon. Friends on the Treasury Bench my constituency the median value of house prices last to seriously consider other measures that we could bring September was £395,000, albeit with some significant forward to make it even stronger. Who knows? Perhaps variance in different parts of the constituency, with homes this tax-cutting pilot, once proved so successful, could around Worminghall, Long Crendon and Cuddington become a more permanent feature of the housing market. having the highest median value of £575,000 and the median in Buckingham north at £287,500. That says to 7.28 pm me that no matter where people want to live and move across the 335 square miles of the beautiful Buckingham Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con): It is a pleasure to constituency, the Bill is worth many thousands of pounds, follow my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham if not tens of thousands of pounds, to potential buyers. (Greg Smith). The Chancellor said last week that As many Members have said, if people are buying Governments rarely get to choose the moments that homes and keeping that market buoyant, that can only define them. Apart from making the decision as to be good news for the economy as a whole—for the three whether or not to lead the country into armed conflict, quarters of a million jobs supported by the house I can think of few more daunting prospects than preparing building sector alone, not to mention our estate agents, a country that is on the brink of an economic recession removal firms, decorators, plumbers, kitchen fitters, of significant scale and depth right in the middle of a landscapers and the wide array of retailers and suppliers global pandemic. that benefit most from people moving home, from I will confine my comments to the housing market furniture makers such as Ercol and Hypnos beds in and the time-limited decision on stamp duty. I hope Princes Risborough in the south of my constituency, to Members will forgive me if I contextualise this as part 1321 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1322 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Laura Farris] It is easy to say, “Well, they’re not very well-known careers” or “They’re not someone we would treat with a of what the Chancellor said about jobs in his statement lot of respect,”but we should treat those people with respect. last week and his attempts to stave off long-term They are young, they are dynamic and they are providing unemployment, which, if we are honest, every Government a service at every Budget, and they have not always qualified of every stripe in the post-war period have struggled for Government support. You do not need to move house with when it takes root. to redo your garden or your interior, but moving is a huge catalyst for that kind of work, and those people When going through a moment of history, it can be directly benefit from this decision on stamp duty. difficult to be clear-eyed about what is happening, but we know that covid-19 discriminates directly on the To conclude, I welcome the time-limited stamp duty basis of age. From a health perspective it has the most break that the Bill offers, and particularly its focus on serious consequences for the old, and from an economic millennials, on jobs and on freelancers. perspective it has the most serious consequences for the young, in terms of both their labour market opportunities 7.33 pm and their potentially facing a higher tax burden in the James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): It is always a longer term. pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury One of the reasons I welcome this stamp duty cut is (Laura Farris), who is a fellow Berkshire Member. what it says to young people’s hopes of home ownership. The Chancellor’s summer statement was just what It reaches first-time buyers and young buyers. In my the country needed to kick-start the economy out of its constituency, the average house price is £350,000. That doldrums. With coronavirus impacting a falling housing is an immediate tax saving of £4,500. I appreciate that a market, his decision to temporarily cut stamp duty until first-time buyer may be buying house worth less than March 2021 was the right thing to do, and I welcome that, but they were very unlikely to fall below the the Bill. However, far from just allowing purchasers to £125,000 previously, so it is a direct saving of several save their cash, this measure offers a real incentive thousand pounds to them. to get our housing market going again and for people to spend what they save. It also allows our builders to get When I researched what a first-time buyer in my building—not just in the already congested south-east constituency looks like, I got two figures—32 and 33—but but to level up with real investment right across the UK. it struck me that it does not much matter, because both those ages are positioned squarely in the middle of the One of the indicators of a recession is falling confidence millennial demographic: people born between 1981 and in the property sector, with homeowners becoming more 1996 and aged between 24 and 39, so they came of age entrenched. The path ahead will not be easy, so the somewhere between the beginning of the financial crisis priority is to launch a pre-emptive strike that incentivises and now, over a decade later, during a global health everyone to grab the opportunities that lie ahead. The pandemic and, potentially, a deep recession. It is critical imperative, therefore, is to support people, jobs and the that there is a renewed imperative to focus on people in economy by catalysing the housing market and boosting that demographic, who I think have,with some justification, business confidence by driving growth. Raising the threshold felt a little ignored in the last 15 years, so I welcome a at which stamp duty applies, from £125,000 to £500,000, policy that gives them a direct financial boost. means that more than 90% of those getting on to or moving up the property ladder will pay no stamp duty The second consideration, which many Members have at all. In addition to the measure being a serious tax raised, is the importance of returning confidence in the break for the majority, those who can most afford it will housing market to jobs more generally. Construction is still be required to pay their share of duty above £500,000, a £39 billion-a-year sector. It employs nearly 5% of my and it is right that a progressive system of taxation constituents, but that figure increases to over 8% if we remains in force. take into account the secondary industries—the tradesmen What does this really mean for those who stand to we have talked about. In 2019, well over 1,000 new gain most benefits? Take Bracknell as the classic example householder developments were approved in west Berkshire. of a modern, vibrant and rewarding place to live. Nestled That number has completely fallen off a cliff during the between the M4 and the M3 in east Berkshire, Bracknell period of stagnation that we have seen in the last three is characterised by near full employment, one of the months, yet we face the same pressure on housing lowest rates of council tax in the country, a strong job supply.The same people want to move up and out—those market, high-tech research and development facilities, having babies, settling down or living with their parents. and an abundance of international companies. Although I welcome an initiative that will get those jobs moving. it has taken a hit during the pandemic, I remain confident My final point I hope answers the concern expressed that Bracknell will bounce back and that its previous by the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney) optimism for the post-Brexit economy will return. about the excluded—the 3 million. If she will forgive I urge the decent, hard-working and pragmatic people me, I think it is important that we do not just treat them whom I proudly represent to look ahead with confidence. as an amorphous lump of people. When I think about Although the average house price in Bracknell is an some of the people in my constituency who contacted eye-watering £325,000, the temporary cut in stamp duty me, they were small business directors doing things will result in a direct saving of more than £5,000 for all such as garden design; peripatetic workers doing things those who buy at that level. Of course, if someone is such as removals, whose income is hard to trace, whose starting on the housing ladder or looking to move up it, employment status is not completely clear and who they will not have to pay anything on a property worth have fallen through the cracks; and even, dare I say it, under £500,000. That is a massive incentive for anyone Instagram influencers specialising in renovation and who aspires to save for a deposit, start a family, build an interiors. extension, get a better job or simply move to a bigger house, 1323 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1324 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill and it will mean more money in their pocket. Therefore, calculated as a percentage of sale price will lead to large as well as boosting the economy at a time when it is duties owed and transactional disincentives. The measures most needed, the Government will continue to allow we are debating today will increase the turnover of people to keep most of what they earn, through fair and house sales and improve mobility, supporting people progressive taxation that incentivises entrepreneurship, who want to downsize and freeing up houses for young hard graft and enterprise. Indeed, for those in any doubt, families, enabling more people to own their own home. the Conservative party remains the party of working This will support all the industries linked to housing families, and this is just another example of what can be and create and support jobs. I am perplexed to hear done when the country most needs it. Opposition Members say that they believe that generating Of course, no cut in stamp duty can be an indefinite economic activity will not support and create jobs. I blank cheque, as it is still necessary to raise the necessary would love to hear the conversations they have with the revenue to pay for our public services. However, further lawyers and conveyancers when they say that more concessions might be possible. I therefore urge the houses being bought and sold will not lead to more Minister to consider some further tweaks. First, several work and will not lead to more people wanting to of my constituents have written to me urging for the cut refurbish their bathroom or whatever. in stamp duty to be backdated to the beginning of the This Government have put in place a world-leading pandemic. I do not know whether that is precedented, package of measures in response to coronavirus and fair or possible for a new policy, but it is one to be while I welcome these bold changes I ask Ministers considered. whether we can be just a little more bold, and not just Secondly, stamp duty is a drag on the housing market, cut stamp duty, but scrap it entirely. Stamp duty puts and any continued relief beyond March 2021 is to be the brakes on the turnover of house ownership. It welcomed. I therefore urge the Minister to consider tax prevents mobility and, perversely, locks capital into measures that encourage rather than hinder social mobility. housing as a result, with the arbitrary thresholds for Increasing the threshold further or spreading payments different rates providing further market distortions. How out over a longer period may be beneficial. can we aspire to home ownership while at the same time Lastly, further refinement could be considered for taxing those merely for buying? Taxes are often used to those who are resident in the UK as UK citizens, as disincentivise behaviour—the tax on tobacco and the opposed to overseas investors or those purchasing second introduction of a sugar tax, for example—but the housing homes. While we must encourage foreign investment market is the only example I can think of where a tax is and entrepreneurship right across our post-Brexit nation, applied to behaviour, such as buying a house, that the taxpayers who can afford to pay more should do so, if Government want to support people to do. Indeed they we are serious about incentivising those just starting up have put in other incentives to enable people to buy a the ladder. Aspiration through hard work and enterprise house, such as Help to Buy and shared ownership. must be rewarded. Across Runnymede and Weybridge people have shown me that, while covid has posed challenges, it has also Toconclude, I welcome the Bill and salute the Chancellor demonstrated opportunities for change and improvement. for his unprecedented, generous and unparalleled support So I thank the Chancellor for these changes, but ask for our economy. Cutting stamp duty in the short term him to go even further and stamp out stamp duty is absolutely the right thing to do, but I also urge him to entirely for home ownership. conduct a wider review so that this tax goes further in what we ask it to do. 7.42 pm 7.39 pm Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con):It is a Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con): pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), and I will for Bracknell (James Sunderland). address one or two of his points, but first I must draw the House’s attention again to my entry in the Register I am delighted that the Government are bringing of Members’ Financial Interests, and also apologise to forward changes to cut stamp duty, to scrap it entirely the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Liverpool, on homes under £500,000 and to raise the threshold at Walton (Dan Carden), as I inadvertently misled the House which it applies. I have spoken to estate agents in earlier when I said that Labour did not cut stamp duty Runnymede and Weybridge and they are concerned for in 2008; actually, they did, from a £125,000 threshold to the next 12 months. A cut in stamp duty will help people a £175,000 threshold, but they crashed the housing to buy their own home and support the housing sector. market so badly that it made no difference whatsoever, But any intervention in the housing market is difficult. which is why I cannot remember it. Interestingly, however, The housing market is already highly distorted and the at the time, despite what he said in his speech, they broader measures we need to fix it are not easy, given made no dispensation in terms of buy-to-let investors— the relatively inelastic supply of housing and the fact stamp duty was just cut across the board, regardless that the market is in fact several markets, formed of of what the property was for, so there was not some those who buy to live in their own home, those who buy carve-out only for homeowners. According to the research, as an investment and those who buy to let or as a one thing that cut did do was boost activity, by 20%. business. And of course people often want to buy for Activity was at a very low level, as transactions were several of those reasons and then need to change. normally at 100,000 a month but they were down to Chewing over how to fix the housing market more 40,000 a month, so it was a pretty painful time, but the broadly is beyond the scope of this debate, but for any cut boosted activity, from that low level, by about 20%. market to function effectively it must be free from Labour then withdrew the measure pretty early and substantial barriers to transactions. Given the costs activity fell away again, which is one of the reasons why involved in buying a house, any stamp duty that is we had such an extended recession from 2008 onwards. 1325 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1326 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Kevin Hollinrake] that level. We can also adjust the bands to make it cheaper for people in lower-value homes, to help people I think certain Members have missed the point of the on lower incomes, and make it more expensive for measure we are debating today. It is not just about people in higher-value homes. helping some people get on to the housing ladder; it is It is simple, but it is not easy. Simple and easy are two also about activity. We all know that the housing market completely different things. As Ronald Reagan said, is a major driver of activity right across the economy. there are simple solutions, but there are no easy solutions. That is why many hon. Members have asked why on If we are to tackle some of the unfairnesses in society, earth we are taxing something that is a major driver of we must not duck the tough issues; we must look at the activity across the economy. This is a transaction tax, things that make the system unfair in the first place. and is therefore bound to slow the market down even in This is an excellent measure, and I will support it good times, let alone times such as this when we are tonight if we enter the Lobbies. trying to stimulate the economy. This is not just about driving activity.Residential stamp 7.48 pm duty brings in important revenue—about £8.3 billion every year. When my hon. Friend the Member for Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): I Runnymede and Weybridge talked about stamping out refer the House to my entry in the Register of Members’ stamp duty entirely, I saw the sweat on the Minister’s Financial Interests. I am on the advisory council for the brows as he was thinking, “Where are we going to find Institute for Fiscal Studies, which I am about to quote, that £8 billion?” and back in 2012 I co-founded the HomeOwners Alliance, Britain’s only consumer group for homeowners, because The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): I was alarmed by the prospects of the home ownership My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that actually I gap—the 5 million aspiring homeowners who cannot remained as implacably calm as I always am. As a test own their own home. We have done a lot of work of all colleagues who want to scrap taxes, I invite them promoting policies to help people get on to the housing to do exactly what he is doing and supply the missing ladder. revenue with some other suggestion. I did not notice I was concerned about the home ownership gap because, that in the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for as Opposition Members said, home ownership levels Runnymede and Weybridge (Dr Spencer), but I am still have declined. What they did not say was that home waiting; I look forward to hearing that before we finish. ownership levels went up almost every year for the past 100 years and stopped in the year 2000—three years Kevin Hollinrake: The Minister is absolutely right, after the new Labour Government came in. They then and I will come to that. started declining for a decade or so. They are now going The Conservative Government have improved the back up again. I commend the Government’s policies system of stamp duty significantly. It used to be a for increasing home ownership levels. ridiculous slab tax that created distortions all the way Various people on both sides of the House have through the market, but we made it into a slice tax—perhaps mentioned the deposit barrier. It is a huge barrier for a slam tax—that gets very expensive at the higher levels first-time buyers who are trying to save up a deposit. and deters activity at the top end. The reason banks have increased the deposit requirement On the Minister’s point about where on earth we are and got rid of 95% loans is that house prices are falling, going to get the money from, the reality is that this nation as the latest data shows. Therefore, if people take out a will come under huge tax pressure over the next few high-value mortgage, they end up in negative equity.That decades, not just the next few years. According to the is why banks are legally required to do only affordable Office for Budget Responsibility, because of the demands lending. The best way to help homeowners get high of healthcare and social care, if we do not change the loan-to-value mortgages is to have a confidently stable tax system and claim more tax, our national debt will or rising housing market, where there is no risk of grow to three times our GDP—it is one times our GDP negative equity. This measure will do that. today—so we cannot simply scrap taxes without introducing In my time at the HomeOwners Alliance over the alternative measures. past decade, I have done a lot of policy work on stamp I am going to propose a measure. I would like the duty and written loads of reports on it, including one threshold remain at £500,000, as my hon. Friend the back in 2012 or 2013 that argued for a differential Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay) proposed. stamp duty system for second home owners and property We have to find that £8.3 billion annually, so we have to investors. There is absolutely no reason why they should look at annual property taxes. The council tax system, benefit from the low stamp duty rates for first-time under which people pay pretty much the same whether buyers and so on. I lobbied the Treasury, No. 10 and the they live in a castle or a cottage, cannot be right. We Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, need to revisit it and have a proper discussion about it. and I was delighted when they finally introduced it as It is controversial. Some people think it is right that the stamp duty premium for additional homes. I would people who own bigger houses should pay more, and not have introduced it in quite the way they did, but the other people think it is wrong. We should certainly have policy has made a big difference. a conversation about that. Two months ago, I called on the Government to The think-tank Onward recently proposed that there introduce a stamp duty holiday to kick-start the housing should be a council tax revaluation, and even the Prime market, so naturally I am delighted that the Government Minister suggested back in 2014 that we should look at have done it. it. The thing about it is that it is simple. We can scrap stamp duty completely up to £500,000, and keep it at Jesse Norman: It was only you saying it. 1327 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1328 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill Anthony Browne: Not at all; I am sure lots of people proposed a couple of months ago—that we should called for it. I am just showing that I am consistent in increase the rate for second home owners and property my views. investors, and use that to cut stamp duty for people Stamp duty—SDLT—is one of the most unpopular buying a home for what houses are for, which is to have taxes, and not just with homeowners and the public, but a place to live in. with economists. The Institute for Fiscal Studies—a So I very much welcome this policy. I urge the very wise organisation—has called for stamp duty to be Government to look at increasing the rate for second abolished outright, because it is one of the most home owners, not now, when we are in the middle of the economically inefficient taxes. It is always worth listening financial crisis, but when we get back a bit to normality. to the IFS. I serve on the Treasury Committee, and we Let us make this a flat rate. There is no social or took evidence last week from Nick Macpherson, the economic reason why people buying second homes or former permanent secretary at the Treasury. He said he homes for investment should get discounted rates on really dislikes stamp duty because it is a transaction tax lower-valued properties. This should be a flat rate, like that reduces transactions, and it has a very bad impact VAT, where it is the same whatever the value of the on labour mobility and bungs up the whole labour transaction. Lastly, we should give strong consideration market. He would certainly not be sad if it went. for this temporary cut in stamp duty to be made permanent. We know that there is huge pent-up demand in the housing market. That is not just about Brexit uncertainty 7.55 pm and all the missing transactions from the coronavirus crisis; there was pent-up demand beforehand, partly because Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con): It is a pleasure to stamp duty rates have been so high. Before the financial follow my hon. Friend the Member for South crisis, there were on average about 1.7 million transactions Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne), who speaks with a year. In recent years, there have been about 1.2 million great passion and knowledge on this subject. a year. We are about 30% below the pre-financial crisis Coronavirus has had a devastating impact on the average. A large part of that is because of stamp duty, housing market, with property transactions falling by although there are other reasons. up to 50% in May and housing prices falling for the first The housing market is very sensitive to changes in time in eight years. One of the most important areas for stamp duty.That is why Opposition Members said earlier, job creation is the whole housing sector, so we need “Don’t speculate about stamp duty changes. Just get mechanisms with which to stimulate, loosen the barriers, ahead and do it.” That is what the Government have open the market and instil confidence in people to buy, done. That is why a cut in stamp duty is so effective in sell and renovate. The Chancellor’s announcement last rapidly driving up activity in the market and releasing week introducing a temporary SDLT cut until 31 March the animal spirit—the huge backlog of people who next year by increasing the nil rate threshold to £500,000 want to move are released to get on with it. As several of plays a key role in doing that. It is estimated that this my hon. Friend have mentioned, we have already seen measure will mean that approximately 90% of people the number of transactions shoot up in the past few buying their main home this year will pay no SDLT, days, which is very much to be welcomed. which is great news. I believe the conversation on SDLT Several Members on both sides of the House have should go even further, and I would welcome exploring worried about the £3.8 billion in forgone revenue. I have its removal for buyers altogether, with perhaps the a solution to that, which I will come to in a minute. consideration for such a tax to be transferred to the However, I do not think the figure will be anywhere seller. Alternatively, as was suggested by my hon. Friend near £3.8 billion. That is just the forgone revenue from the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake), stamp duty that has been calculated by the Treasury. who is no longer in his place, we could look at an That is slightly unlikely because the whole stamp duty ongoing annual property tax review. take last year was £4.5 billion just for primary residential Through last week’s announcements, we have seen, homes, if we get rid of the additional premium. yet again, that the Chancellor is on the side of business We have heard about all the additional economic and jobs. This temporary SDLT cut is yet another activity that goes along with housing transactions—the tangible, significant weapon in our Government’sarmoury builders, the furniture makers, the removal companies, to reignite the economy through our overall plan to the lawyers and so on. All that is taxed at 20% VAT. On create jobs. House builders alone support nearly 750,000 average, only about half the tax paid in a single housing jobs, with millions more people relying on the availability transaction goes on stamp duty; the other half goes on of the housing sector and housing market to find work. all the associated economic activity through VAT to the One of the first visits I undertook as the proud new Government. If we scrapped stamp duty outright but Member for Keighley was to Keighley College, where I the number of transactions doubled, the revenue to the was lucky enough to meet one of its level 1 students Government would be the same. It just comes not as who was undertaking a construction course. I witnessed stamp duty but as VAT. him building a wall in one of the college’s classrooms However, that is not the proposal I was going to make for the first time, where he started to learn the skills to help my Treasury friends with the £3.8 billion. There needed for the building trade and the ropes required to is another £3.8 billion: the latest available figures show get on. With its principal, Steve Kelly, and his awesome that the amount of money the Treasury made from the team, who are full of enthusiasm and want the very additional premium for second homes was also £3.8 billion, best for their students in Keighley, I went on to see as it happens. That is made on a rate of 3% above the students undertaking fabrication and welding, electrical, existing stamp duty. If we increased that 3% to 6%, plumbing, gas safety and engineering courses, all with there may be a slight decline in transactions, but basically students who were determined to progress, upskill and we would raise another £3.8 billion. That is what I get a job. 1329 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1330 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Robbie Moore] Buyers are already being encouraged to purchase property in England rather than in Wales, and I would The Chancellor’s announcements last week on SDLT, urge the Welsh Government to follow the lead of my along with many other packages, are most welcome, as right hon. Friend the Chancellor in supporting the it is vital that we use every mechanism to kick-start the housing market and matching the stamp duty measures whole housing market and get its wheels in motion, so announced in this place. This will not only boost the that, in turn, the construction industry, which attracts a local economy and housing market, but make it easier huge number of employees, can start moving again, and and more affordable for first-time buyers in Wales. As so that keen and enthusiastic students such as those at always, if this policy is adopted by our friends in Cardiff Keighley College can learn a trade, with the comfort of Bay, it will probably be two weeks later, it will probably knowing that they will be greeted with a job at the other be called something slightly different. Instead of changing side. the stamp duty threshold to £500,000, it will be labelled This is such an important debate, as it actively aims “amending the land transaction tax lower limit to half a to create, secure and protect jobs. Many Conservatives million pounds”—anything to give the shockingly poor have contributed to the debate, but only two Labour Labour Administration in Cardiff the ability to say that Back Benchers have done so. In summary, this Bill it is their policy and they can determine the wording. demonstrates that this Conservative Government are I would say to the First Minister that if he does his on the side of those hard-working families who want to regular job of prevaricating on this measure, a massive get on the housing ladder and progress. For those volume of property transactions will be lost and we will first-time buyers, it loosens the market, while ensuring drift even further into more of the economic difficulty that those hard-working families have more money in that Labour has presided over in Wales for two decades. their pocket. He should stop sitting on his hands, and do something for the people of Wales to ensure that we can move 7.59 pm forward with as minimal a loss of economic activity as possible. I look forward to the Senedd elections in May Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): It is a pleasure to follow next year, when the people of Wales can rightly get rid my hon. Friend the Member for Keighley (Robbie Moore). of this appalling Labour Government. As we continue to move forward out of lockdown, it Moving on, data from HomeOwners Alliance suggest is important that we support and revitalise the housing that the average time it takes to sell a property, from market, helping those getting on or moving up the listing to completion, is about six months. I appeal to property ladder, as well as protecting jobs within the my right hon. Friend the Minister to consider extending sector and the supply chain. I support this Bill to cut this scheme from nine months to 12 to 15 months, stamp duty temporarily for many current and future because restricting it to nine months runs the risk of a homebuyers. This will hugely benefit those looking to measure designed to be a stimulus primarily just providing access the housing market as nearly 90% of people, as a windfall to people who are already engaged in the we have heard, will pay no stamp duty at all as a result market, rather than attracting more properties into it. of this change. An extended stamp duty holiday past next March will Yet in my Delyn constituency, we have a sense of also aid the long-term recovery of the housing market, unfairness. Just eight miles across the border into Wales, preventing a boom scenario that could slow down when we will not be able to benefit from the changes in this the scheme finishes. As the Government are rightly Bill simply due to our location. In Wales, land transaction serious about supporting both buyers and jobs within tax, the Welsh equivalent of stamp duty,penalises first-time the whole housing industry, increasing the term to 12 to buyers already. It incentivises young people to move out 15 months will allow construction companies and house of Delyn and similar constituencies down the England- builders to make informed and strategic decisions about Wales border to places that are more accessible and how to move forward beyond that period, and will in turn more affordable, taking their economic activity with assist the long-term economic recovery of the market. them to the detriment of our Welsh towns and communities. That being said, I welcome the changes the Bill introduces. I believe that temporarily scrapping stamp Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con): Will my duty on all homes under £500,000 is the right thing to hon. Friend give way? do to boost confidence and encourage growth in the housing market, and I again urge the Welsh Government Rob Roberts: I will certainly give way to my constituency to take forward similar plans as soon as possible. neighbour. 8.4 pm Dr Davies: Does my hon. Friend agree that the housing market in Wales is being impacted not only by the lack Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): I promise I will of a stamp duty holiday in Wales, but by the continuing be very brief. I warmly welcome the temporary cut to ban on the viewing of occupied properties? stamp duty. This will benefit approximately 90% of new homebuyers in the country. However, alongside some of Rob Roberts: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. my Conservative colleagues, I urge my right hon. Friend The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden) the Minister to be bolder and broader, and to look at a mentioned that the Chancellor had a cunning plan. fundamental reform of stamp duty.Stamp duty,ultimately, Well, Labour’s very own Baldrick must be running is a tax on social mobility and aspiration. It prevents things in Wales, where live property viewings can take people from moving house to pursue new job opportunities, place only after the property has been unoccupied for it prevents growing families from moving to more 72 hours, though quite how that works in getting properties appropriate accommodation and, at the same time, it moving is beyond me. prevents those who want to downsize. 1331 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1332 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill In my constituency, stamp duty has unintended and Weybridge (Dr Spencer) and for Keighley consequences. People cannot afford the stamp duty to (Robbie Moore)? What better place to start than a tax move to a bigger house, so what do they do? They start that does for housing transactions what the window tax to renovate and to extend their existing house. For people did for windows? It is wrong to think of stamp duty as a who live in dense terraces in central London, that often modest percentage of the price: although the purchase means basement excavations, with all of the nuisance price of a property can be spread over 20 or 25 years, and noise that they cause to neighbours. Similarly, a lot stamp duty has to be paid in a lump sum up front, so it of people who are in private rented accommodation are is much more like a deposit, which is the biggest hurdle put off buying because they are concerned about the for generation rent. At a time when interest rates are at amount of stamp duty. all-time lows, it is about not affordability but access to I completely accept the comments of the Minister up-front capital. In that sense, we can think of stamp that we cannot simply cut taxes without thinking about duty as a tax on social mobility. If someone has capital, where revenue will come from, but I argue that the or their family does, they can quickly pass go, but if current levels of stamp duty at 5%, 10% and 12% are their bank of mum and dad—or perhaps just mum or punitive levels of taxation. Certainly in my constituency, just dad—happens to be empty, getting on or moving we have simply seen the number of transactions fall. I up the ladder is much harder. had a look at the numbers in Kensington: from 2015-16 It is not as if the housing market was working perfectly, to 2018-19, the fall in the total number of transactions even without the Bill. Prices are out of reach for first-time was 38%, and the fall in the value of those transactions buyers while empty-nesters are penalised for downsizing. to the Exchequer was 26%. My hon. Friend for South Planning permissions are already in place for more than Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne) made the point about a million homes—all that the nation will ever need—but what we lose not only in stamp duty, but in building and those homes are not getting built. Labour tax raids on renovations and in lawyers’ fees. pension savings destroyed confidence and channelled I welcome this measure. I am not naive—we need tax savings instead into buy-to-let. The planning system revenue in future—but I feel that this tax needs to be incentivised developers to build homes in exactly the looked at in detail and can be finessed. wrong places, because that is where the arbitrage is the greatest. Intervention is heaped on intervention, so that, like a teenager’s carpet, we can no longer see the 8.7 pm original pattern. I shall return to that subject on behalf Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): of my constituents in West Grinstead, Adversane and It is a pleasure to follow not only my hon. Friend the Henfield, whose lives are being blighted by the prospect Member for Kensington (Felicity Buchan) but so many of inappropriate and unsustainable developments. of my colleagues who were elected for the first time in Finally, let us remember that the rate of tax is a floor, December 2019. not a ceiling. If the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton I warmly welcome the scrapping of stamp duty for (Dan Carden), the shadow Chancellor or any of their purchases of up to £500,000. With average house prices supporters wish personally to pay more, that is a right of about £450,000 in Arundel and South Downs, that that we on the Government Benches would never seek will help some but not all my constituents directly. to deny them. I know that the Minister would be happy However, everyone will benefit from the resulting boost to let them know the details for where to send the to the economy—the construction industry, painters, cheque. Now is a time to be bold and decisive and to act decorators, plumbers, electricians, brick makers, timber fast. The Bill and the measure in it fully meet that merchants, furniture and removal companies, and my objective, and I am proud to support it. hard-hit local garden centres, growers and landscape designers—and, because the supply chain stretches across 8.11 pm the whole country, the whole Union will benefit. Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): The measure is temporary, but after such an excellent It has been a pleasure to listen to this debate and the debate and such warm words from our colleagues, I many interesting contributions. I cannot mention every wonder whether I can tempt the Minister to settle on Member who has spoken, but we have had a lot of this particular piece of fiscal real estate more permanently. interesting contributions. The hon. Members for South In fact, we could make it an early down payment on the Thanet (Craig Mackinlay) and for Runnymede and vital work to come of simplifying the tax system that he Weybridge (Dr Spencer), and perhaps one or two others, has inherited—a system that, despite the honourable urged the Government to abolish stamp duty completely. and herculean endeavours of HMRC, is essentially broken. The hon. Member for Dudley South (Mike Wood) spoke According to the World Bank index, the UK is a of the importance of confidence in the market in the creditable eighth in the world for the competitiveness of face of impending job losses. our tax rates, but a rather less competitive 27th for ease In a thoughtful contribution, the hon. Member for of understanding and paying taxes. That is no surprise Penistone and Stocksbridge (Miriam Cates) spoke of the with a tax code that now runs to more than 10 million impact of relationship breakdown on housing transactions. words. Along with my Front-Bench colleagues, we have My hon. Friend the Member for Mitcham and Morden an excellent Chancellor with a sharp intellect and a (Siobhain McDonagh) spoke of the appalling conditions ferocious work ethic, but it would take him a whole year that many families find themselves living in, and eloquently to read it—by which time it would be Budget time and, set out how distant is the dream or aspiration of home like Sisyphus, he would have to start all over again. ownership for so many people. The hon. Member for What better time is there to start a crusade for fairer, South Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne) gave us the flatter and simpler taxes, and I note the comments benefit of his long experience in these matters in calling made by my hon. Friends the Members for Runnymede for an increased rate for second homeowners. 1333 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1334 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Mr Pat McFadden] really proud that it is so much more difficult for younger people to get on the housing ladder? I do not think they Stamp duty holidays are a familiar feature of economic can be proud of that decade-long record. crisis management. As has been referenced in the debate As with a number of the measures announced last already, in 2008 the then Chancellor, Alistair Darling, week, we have concerns about how well this is targeted. raised the level at which stamp duty was paid in an Stamp duty has changed over the years, with different effort to kick-start the housing market, which had been rates put in at different levels. If the Chancellor really hit hard by the global financial crisis. At that time, the wanted to announce a stamp duty holiday,was it necessary measure had a positive effect and brought forward an to extend it to buy-to-let landlords and people purchasing increase in the number of transactions. This time, we do second homes? What will be the benefits for overseas not yet know of the effect. buyers, some of whom have seen the most expensive As my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton London property almost as a reserve currency? Both (Dan Carden) said, another thing that we do not know those groups are already treated differently within the is whether the Government really intended to introduce existing regime, and they could have been treated differently this measure, at least at this time. We saw the briefing, the in this change. That is why we have tabled a new clause counter-briefing, the leak and the counter-leak; in the end calling for a report on the effect of this decision on the Government have announced it now, rather than in these very different groups of homebuyers. We are for some post-dated way that would have simply killed the measures that help hard-working people to buy their housing market stone dead. After all, why would anyone own home, but we are not for measures that simply choose to buy a house now if they were promised a tax channel funds to areas where they are not needed or cut on the transaction in some months’ time? that go against the grain of some of the changes that have been made to stamp duty in recent years. It is normal, of course, for the Treasury to weigh up That takes me to a wider point about the measures its options for a statement such as last week’s. There is announced last week. The job retention bonus has been nothing wrong with considering different ideas, accepting criticised by a number of commentators for having a some and rejecting others, but for that exercise to work, significant dead-weight cost—that is to say, giving money it has to be done in private. If the leaks were not a to businesses for doing things they would have done problem, Government Members must ask the Prime anyway. That is why the measure was not signed off by Minister why he was railing against them at the end of the head of HMRC, who questioned the “value for money” last week when he was discussing these measures. Once of the proposal. It was of course absolutely essential for it was out in the open, the Chancellor had to act, so the the Government to step up and support the economy first question to be asked about this policy, before we during a lockdown that was imposed for public health even get to its merits, is: was it the result of a £4 billion reasons, and the costs of not doing so, both economically leak? If that is the case and the Chancellor was effectively and socially, would have far outweighed the costs of bounced into this policy as a result of information doing so. But that does not mean that the Treasury and coming out in an unintended way, this must be the the Chancellor are absolved of the duty to target that biggest plumbing bill of all time. We might never know, support properly on measures that really can make a so let me turn to the merits of the policy itself. difference to the recovery, or to use taxpayers’ money The reason the Chancellor gave for the measures before wisely. us was that housing transactions had fallen sharply in Like all Budgets and all Budget statements, the measures April and May. It is true that housing is a very important announced can look a little different after a few days’ part of our economy, for all the reasons that we have examination and scrutiny, and that has proved to be the heard in the debate. Governments of both colours have case with last week’s statement. Within 24 hours of this supported the ambition of people to own their own supposed statement for jobs, thousands of job losses in home, as we do today. Depending on where you live, Boots and John Lewis were announced—great British stamp duty can be a significant cost to house buyers. companies in a sector that got almost no attention from Although the history of temporary cuts in stamp duty the Chancellor last week. So the question, above and rates tells us that, over the longer term, they might make beyond the detail of the measures before us tonight, is little difference to the volume of transactions, they can whether, after last week’s statement, all these measures serve to bring forward demand when a market has been match up to the scale of the economic and, in particular, hit for one reason or another. When people move house, the jobs challenge that the country is facing. We called there is a positive knock-on effect, and we have heard for a Budget for jobs because we have heard the warnings about many of those effects today, whether it is the about the danger to jobs in many parts of the economy. purchase of new furniture or electrical goods or the This is not a crisis that affects all sectors equally. The employment of people doing repairs and renovations. Chancellor conceded that point with his targeted cut in We do not oppose this measure. We support the desire VAT for tourism and hospitality. It is absolutely right to for people to own their own homes. We certainly do not help those sectors, but there are others that desperately celebrate the reduction in home ownership over the past need help too—retail, manufacturing, aviation, transport 10 years or the fact that 800,000 fewer people under the and many more. age of 45 own their own home today compared with There is one more crucial point. Getting the economy 10 years ago—and 10 years is important. The Government moving again is not just a matter of the kind of measures have had a decade to address the question of home that we are debating this evening, because the health ownership. I put it to all the champions of home response and the economic response have to go together. ownership who have spoken in the debate: are they It is not just the lack of a £10 discount that is stopping really proud that it is harder to own a home now than it people eating out; it is fear—fear and lack of confidence was when they came into office 10 years ago? Are they that the Government are adequately on top of the public 1335 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1336 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill health situation. After tens of thousands of deaths, and untrue to suggest that the measure will disproportionately with the Government’s boast of a world-beating track- benefit second home owners. Although those buying and-trace system having been turned to dust, it is little second homes or buy-to-let properties will benefit, and wonder that there is fear and lack of confidence. If the make a very important economic contribution in so Government really want to get the economy moving doing, they will continue to pay an additional 3% on again, they have to give the public the confidence that top of the standard stamp duty land tax rates. Let us they are on top of the public health crisis as well as not forget that it was this Government who introduced putting the right economic support measures in place. the phasing out of finance costs relief, as well as the We do not oppose these measures, but we remain higher rates of stamp duty land tax for the purchase of convinced that the economic and health responses must additional property—all steps towards a more balanced be brought together, and that more measures than those tax treatment between homeowners and landlords. announced last week will be necessary to help the The hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden), economy through the very tough period for jobs that is in his opening speech, talked about the limited scale of already upon us. this package of measures. All I can say to him is that his memory is a lot shorter than many others, as £30 billion used to be considered a rather large amount of money. 8.22 pm Certainly, it was no slouch of a budget statement to The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): announce that much. It is a measure of how much our I thank all hon. and right hon. Members for what has times have changed that that should be seen to be the been a very interesting debate, across the Chamber. I case. also thank the Labour Members for their support on The right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South this measure, because it is wise on their part but also East raised the question of whether the Government indicates that they share at least this aspect of the were reacting in some sense to a leak which, nevertheless, Government’s vision for the economy. would have itself encouraged forestalling. I can tell him This pandemic represents, as the right hon. Member that I have dozens of officials across the Treasury for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) said, thinking about tax strategy who have the concept of not merely a public health crisis but a profound shock avoiding forestalling ingrained, tattooed on their eyebrows to our economy. That is why, last Wednesday, my right and embedded in their heart like the word “Calais” on hon. Friend the Chancellor unveiled the Government’s the heart of Queen Mary in the 16th century. The idea plan for jobs. The purpose of that plan, as he articulated, that they would ever have contemplated that is risible. was to protect, to support and to create jobs across this They did not. country. Let me turn to some of the other comments that were As we have heard in this debate, the property market made in the debate. The hon. Member for Warwick and has been particularly hard hit, with almost 90% fewer Leamington (Matt Western) shared with us his concerns mortgage approvals in May than in February, before about growing wealth inequalities. I understand that. the lockdown at began. Not only is this a source of Would he, or maybe the hon. Member for Liverpool, terrible frustration and uncertainty for buyers and sellers Walton, like to clarify his position on a wealth tax? Would who must put their lives on hold in that respect as in so he be in favour of that? What is the Labour party’sposition? many others, but the reverberations have been felt across He is welcome to intervene on me if he has a view on the economy. More than 24,000 people are directly that, as is the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton, who employed by house builders, with hundreds of thousands perhaps could do so in Committee. It is causing us a more in the supply chain, and there is a knock-on effect certain amount of uncertainty and it must be causing for removal companies, furniture stores, painters and voters even more. decorators, and many other businesses large or small The hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain that benefit when people move—a point nicely made by McDonagh), in a very thoughtful speech, invited the my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley South (Mike Government to build more. I can direct her, if I may, to Wood) when he talked about his role as chair of the an article in The Guardian on 14 November last year, APPG on the furniture industry, and rightly so. which points out that house building in England is at a There are, however, signs that the market is beginning 30-year high. As colleagues have mentioned, we have a to recover, with some 16% more transactions in May £12.2 billion affordable homes programme in place at than in April. It is in the interests of both homebuyers the moment, so she can take it as read, I hope, that both and the wider economy that that trend should gather sides of the housing market are very well attended to at momentum and speed over the coming months. That is the moment. why the plan for jobs included a commitment to increase My hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and temporarily the nil rate band of residential stamp duty Weybridge (Dr Spencer) raised whether we should scrap tax from £125,000 to £500,000. Alongside the green stamp duty all together. I was perhaps slightly harsh, homes grant, the aim was to inject momentum back but I always take it as an additional measure of credibility into the housing market so that the economy can start when colleagues can come forward, as my hon. Friend to move forward once again. The Bill today puts that the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) commitment into action and will ensure that the new did—and my hon. Friend the Member for South band can take effect from 8 July—last Wednesday—until Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne)—with a specific 30 March 2021. suggestion for how the gap could be filled. What was Turning to the points raised in the debate, the right charming about my hon. Friend the Member for South hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East asked Cambridgeshire was that although he believes the abolition whether this policy was designed in some way to benefit of this tax will fire up the market, temporarily at least, second home owners. I can reassure him that it is quite he did not seem to think that doubling the additional 1337 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 1338 (Temporary Relief) Bill [Jesse Norman] Stamp Duty Land Tax (Temporary Relief) Bill tax would have any effect on the market. I thought that was an interesting economic contribution and I invite Considered in Committee (Order, this day) him to raise that possibility with his friends at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, since he is a board member [MR NIGEL EVANS IN THE CHAIR] or senior advisor there. Let me wind up by saying that this is an important Clause 1 measure, which comes at a time when the pandemic has tested our economy to the limit. Through our collective REDUCED RATES OF SDLT ON RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY effort, we will bring this virus under control. We have FOR A TEMPORARY PERIOD done so and we will continue to do so, and we will Question proposed, That the clause stand part of support our economy as it reopens in a way that is safe. the Bill. For those reasons, I commend this Bill to the House. The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means Question put and agreed to. (Mr Nigel Evans): With this it will be convenient to Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed discuss the following: to a Committee of the whole House (Order, this day). Clause 2 stand part. New clause 1—Review of impact of Act— Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Before I ask the Clerk to read the title of the Bill, I should explain “(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must lay before the House of Commons within three months of Royal Assent a that, in these exceptional circumstances, although the review of the impact of this Act. (2) Such a review must include Chair of the Committee would normally sit in the an assessment of the impact of the Act on— (a) first-time buyers, Clerk’s Chair during Committee stage, in order to comply (b) existing owner-occupiers moving home, (c) buy-to-let investors, with social distancing requirements I shall remain in the (d) those buying second homes, and (e) overseas buyers.” Speaker’s Chair carrying out the role of Chairman of Member’s explanatory statement This new clause would require the the Committee. We should be addressed as Chairs of Chancellor of the Exchequer to report to Parliament on the impact of the Committee rather than as Deputy Speakers. the Act, and in particular its impact on different groups of property owner. 8.31 pm The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): This Bill increases the nil rate band of stamp duty land tax from £125,000 to £500,000 from 8 July 2020 and runs until 31 March 2021. If I may, I will speak to clauses 1 and 2, and also to new clause 1 tabled in the name of the Leader of the Opposition. This Bill contains two clauses. Clause 1 provides for the thresholds at which stamp duty land tax is due on residential property to be increased for a temporary release period, with effect from 8 July 2020 to 31 March 2021. The effect of this is that the first £500,000 of consideration for standard purchases of residential property will be free of tax, whereas previously only the first £125,000 was free of tax. The clause changes the rules in relation to other elements of stamp duty land tax, which are affected by the temporary holiday, such as the higher rate for the purchase of additional properties and first-time buyers’ relief. The higher rate traditional dwellings will continue to apply in addition to the standard rates of stamp duty land tax. This means that for purchase of additional dwellings, the first £500,000 of the consideration will be subject to the higher rates of 3% on top of any existing SDLT rates. Further, the clause ensures that section 57B and schedule 6ZA of the Finance Act 2003, which gives effect to first-time buyers’relief, is temporarily disregarded until 31 March 2021. Finally, the clause makes sure that no additional checks will be due when a contract is completed after the temporary relief period has ended, if the transaction was substantially performed within the temporary relief period. This is provided that the only reason for additional tax becoming due is the return to the standard rates of SDLT after the end of the temporary relief period. Clause 2 provides that the Bill may be cited as the Stamp Duty Land Tax (Temporary Relief) Bill. The Bill comes into force on Royal Assent, but applies in relation to transactions with an effective date on or after 8 July 2020. 1339 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1340 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill As a result of the resolutions passed by the House of completely ignores the fact that the majority of people Commons under the Provisional Collection of Taxes are unable to buy a home of their own now, and are Act 1968, the Bill’s provisions have effectively been in never likely to do so in the future. force since the 8 July 2020. In my constituency of Bath, the availability of housing I shall briefly turn to Labour’s new clause 1, which for first-time buyers is limited and house prices are calls for a review of the impact of the Act. To that I expensive. The average house price in Bath is currently would respond that Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs more than £430,000. A first-time buyer would qualify routinely publishes quarterly and annual statistics and for £10,000 under the new rates, but even that would analysis of stamp duty land tax data, including on provide little benefit to a first-time buyer in my constituency first-time buyers and those purchasing additional dwellings. who cannot secure a deposit or who faces an unaffordable The Government also already closely monitor those mortgage. The cut to stamp duty will not solve the real statistics and keep stamp duty policy under constant problems at the heart of the housing crisis. Housing is review. As part of that, we will continue to examine the one of the most important sectors for job creation—I effect of the temporary rate change.This is a straightforward agree with the Minister on that—but where is the focus Bill to enact the temporary relief to stamp duty land tax on building social homes for rent? Social homes are the announced last week by my right hon. Friend the only way to provide secure and affordable housing for Chancellor. I therefore commend clauses 1 and 2 to the everyone, but, most importantly, for those on lower House and ask the House to reject new clause 1. incomes. The private sector has completely failed to build social homes, and only a huge Government Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): It is a pleasure infrastructure programme to build social housing, as we to speak in the Committee stage of the Bill. The Bill was saw in the ’50s and ’60s, will bring our social housing only published at the beginning of the debate, and it has stock back to where it needs to be. That would create just two clauses. I will direct my remarks primarily the jobs we need as well as the homes we need. Surely at to our new clause 1. We are asking the Government at this time, genuinely affordable homes are more important least to accept the principle behind the new clause. I do than ever, and more important than a stamp duty cut. not think the Financial Secretary to the Treasury was Lastly, the climate emergency has not gone away able to put our minds at rest on the question of which during covid, and we know that emissions from homes people and groups will benefit from the cut set out in account for 30% of UK emissions. Decarbonising homes the Bill. He said that it was quite untrue that it would is therefore crucial to getting to net zero. Improving the benefit the owners of second homes or multiple homes, energy efficiency of social housing is something that the but I think we need a review to give us the facts. We Government could do straight away. They could also need to find out whether first-time buyers, existing require landlords to achieve minimum levels of energy owner-occupiers moving home, buy-to-let investors, those efficiency in order to be able to rent their homes. We buying second homes and overseas buyers are among need a Government with a vision to get the economy groups that will benefit from the policy. going, not a tax cut for only the few. The Financial Secretary did not give us a clear response to the fact that £1.3 billion of the cost of this scheme Jesse Norman: I thank the hon. Members for Bath looks likely to benefit those who are already home (Wera Hobhouse) and for Liverpool, Walton (Dan Carden) owners. We want the Government to commit to reviewing for their comments. There may be some slight the Bill’s impact in an open and transparent way. We misapprehension from the hon. Gentleman—I did not want to know whether such a large sum will deliver actually say what he said I said. I said it is not true that value for money and what the broader impact of this this measure will disproportionately benefit second home will be on the housing sector. The Government should owners, and that is because it has a proportionate effect want to consider how this, their flagship policy, will across the whole population of home ownership. However, contribute to solving the housing crisis and how it will he should also be reassured that we in the Treasury keep impact on the economy overall. Our new clause will help a very careful watch over these taxes. They are monitored to achieve that, and the Government should accept it. and assessed and their impacts are regularly reported on. As I said, the Bill will help to deliver a Government Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): Covid-19 has highlighted aim to ensure that people feel confident to move, buy, the deep inequalities that existed long before this pandemic. sell, renovate and improve their homes, and it is a policy Many people have been left desperate for support. that the Labour party has indicated that it supports. On Hundreds of thousands of people already have less money that basis, I commend clauses 1 and 2 to the House and coming in, and hundreds of thousands have lost, or will respectfully ask that it does not support new clause 1. lose, their jobs. The Government have thrown an eye- Question put and agreed to. watering amount of money at our economy, but we do Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill. not yet know how this increasing mountain of debt will be paid back, or by whom. In the meantime, paying Clause 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill. bills, rents and mortgages has become hard for millions The Deputy Speaker resumed the Chair. of households. We must therefore question whether this Bill reported, without amendment. tax cut should be a priority for the Government. It is expected to cost £3.8 billion, yet it will mainly benefit Third Reading the wealthiest. The average earner, including the young generation who are struggling to pay ever-increasing 8.41 pm rents, let alone be able to put down enough money to buy a house, will see nothing of it. The discount might Jesse Norman: I beg to move, That the Bill be now provide a tax holiday for the privileged few, but it read the Third time. 1341 Stamp Duty Land Tax 13 JULY 2020 Stamp Duty Land Tax 1342 (Temporary Relief) Bill (Temporary Relief) Bill [Jesse Norman] 8.43 pm

Mr Deputy Speaker, let me say how gracefully you Dan Carden: The Opposition will not be opposing migrated from being Chairman to Mr Deputy Speaker the Bill. We are acutely aware that people need support without any of us really noticing the change—thank you after months of lockdown when they were unable to for that brilliant transfiguration. It is extraordinary to buy or sell their homes, but while we are not opposed think that it is now four months almost to the day since to giving homeowners and buyers additional support to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer stood get through this crisis, we have concerns about who will before the House to deliver the Government’s first Budget. benefit most from the Bill. That proved to be the first in a series of very large Last week, we should have had a back-to-work Budget economic interventions from this Government, all of which that targeted support at the sectors and jobs most have been designed to buttress our public services and affected by this terrible crisis, but we did not get one. protect the most vulnerable in our society from this Instead, we got scattergun giveaways that will not deliver virus, while also supporting people’s jobs and livelihoods for those who need it most—giveaways such as this Bill, through the lockdown. Four months on, as he said, a “new which was frantically pulled together at the end of last phase”has begun in the Government’s economic response week after more clumsy miscommunication at the highest to covid-19 with the publication of our plan for jobs. level of Government. As the Chancellor made clear when he addressed the Last week’s statement was another example of rhetoric House last Wednesday, there is no room for dogma or over reality with this Government. It was cobbled together ideology in this approach. If the first phase of our to get as many likes as possible, without due consideration response focused on protection, this second phase is for the long-term impact on the economy. It did nothing focused on the need to give everyone the opportunity of to target support to those who need it most during this good and secure work in the future. However, it is difficult time. It did nothing for those who have so far certainly not the last measure that we will enact. The been excluded from Government support during this Government have said that they will bring forward both crisis.Above all, it did nothing to address the Government’s a Budget and a spending review in the autumn, when we failure to get an effective test and trace system in place will be in a better position to put our public finances on so that people can feel confident leaving their homes a secure footing and consider the long-term fiscal measures and returning to some sort of normality. required for a sustained and successful recovery. Nor should we forget that many of the programmes that the As my hon. Friend the shadow Chancellor put it so Government have introduced to date still have a significant succinctly last week, families are not staying home time to run. They include the coronavirus jobs retention because they are waiting for a tenner off a meal. They scheme, the furlough scheme and the self-employment are staying home because they are still worried about income support scheme, which will continue through the coronavirus. We do not just need incentives; we need summer and the early autumn before ending in October. confidence. However, at this moment millions of people are still Question put and agreed to. facing considerable uncertainty and fearing for their jobs right now. They need to know that there is hope for Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed. the future, which is why we have acted with a plan for jobs. This Bill—I hope soon it will be an Act—is a very important part of that plan for jobs, and I commend it 8.46 pm to the House. Sitting suspended. 1343 13 JULY 2020 Intelligence and Security Committee 1344 of Parliament Intelligence and Security Committee of 8.51 pm Parliament Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): This motion has been brought forward only after considerable pressure from 8.49 pm Opposition Members.Two weeks ago, I tabled an early-day motion, which received widespread support. I am far The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob from being the only MP who has been campaigning for Rees-Mogg): I beg to move, the Committee to re-form, yet it has taken the Government That Chris Grayling, Sir John Hayes, Stewart Hosie, Dame until this week—nine days before the summer recess—to Diana Johnson, Mr Kevan Jones, Dr Julian Lewis, Mark Pritchard act. It has been widely reported that the Prime Minister and Theresa Villiers be appointed to the Intelligence and Security has put forward a candidate to be appointed Chair of Committee of Parliament under Section 1 of the Justice and the Committee. This says a lot about how the Government Security Act 2013. see the role of Parliament. The role of Chair is a matter I rise to speak to the motion in my name—in the for the Committee to decide. Prime Minister’s name actually—on the Order Paper. Under the terms of section 1 of the Justice and Security It is obvious that the first order of business for Act 2013, members of the Intelligence and Security the new Committee needs to be the publication of the Committee are nominated by the Prime Minister and report into alleged Russian interference in our democracy. appointed by the respective House. The Prime Minister In the UK, we value democracy, so why does all of this has nominated the members, following the required matter? Because serious questions need to be answered consultations with the leader of Her Majesty’sOpposition. about foreign interference in our democracy. Can our The House is now being asked to make the appointments elections be bought with money from abroad? The idea in accordance with the Act. I commend this motion to that our democracy could be compromised is deeply the House. disturbing. The report was meant to be released before the last general election; it was not. What does this tell us about the 2019 elections? Parliament must come to 8.50 pm terms with this very simple question: has there been Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): I thank the Leader interference in our UK democracy? The public have a of the House for bringing forward the motion. It has right to know. been the longest time taken to set up the Intelligence Otherwise, the question is: can we trust our current and Security Committee; I think the last time it has Government with our democracy? It is far past the time taken so long was in 1994. He will know that I have when both the MPs and the public have a right to see raised this at business questions several times, so setting the full contents and any conclusions that are made. To up the Committee today cannot go without some insist that this is normal practice is an insult to the acknowledgment of the delay, and perhaps an apology intelligence of both Opposition MPs and the public in to the House. That would be much appreciated. general. Previous generations understood, often to their We have heard from eminent Members of this House, cost, that democracy has to be fought for. It is something such as Dominic Grieve, the former Chair, who warned we hoped we would never have to do again, but democracy that always has to be fought for. How does it start? When “the effective and robust oversight of the intelligence community, elections are tampered with. Were our elections being entrusted to us, is too important to have been left in a vacuum for compromised, and are the Government trying to hide so many months.” the truth? This is just the beginning of a long struggle. I Lord Ricketts said: do not expect allies on the Government Benches, but for “It was a fundamental part of the deal when the intelligence all of us on the Opposition side of the House, fighting agencies got more intrusive powers to combat terrorism that at for open, accountable Government is our fight. the same time Parliament got stronger powers of oversight”, and the Intelligence and Security Committee is that “oversight”. Four important inquiries were going on 8.54 pm and of course the Russia report, which has been on the Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I welcome Prime Minister’s desk for six months. Can the Leader of this motion to form the Intelligence and Security the House say when that will be published? Committee. The only two survivors of the Committee I am pleased by the Opposition team. As the Leader that sat in the last Parliament are myself and the hon. of the House said, the Opposition nominate their Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie), if the House members, and we have a fantastic team in my hon. agrees to the motion. It is right to pay tribute to the Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North Members who served on the last Committee, including (Dame Diana Johnson), my right hon. Friend the Member Dominic Grieve, the Chairman. He might be a Marmite for North Durham (Mr Jones) and Lord West. They are figure on the Government Benches, but he was a good assiduous parliamentarians, and they will do their work Chair, a fair Chair and someone who not only worked diligently. I also want to place on the record my thanks collegiately with Members across the House and political to David Hanson and Caroline Flint for their work on parties but took a keen interest in the subject of security the Committee. and intelligence. I pay tribute to Richard Benyon and With this Committee, we are able to preserve the Keith Simpson. Keith is a loss because he was our balance between liberty and security. The robust and resident historian on the Committee. I wish all three of continuous oversight of the intelligence and security them well. I would also like to pay tribute to my two community is both necessary for our democracy and Labour colleagues, Caroline Flint and David Hanson, vital for our national security. Her Majesty’s Opposition for their service to not only the Committee but the last support the motion. Labour Government, as two very fine Ministers. 1345 Intelligence and Security Committee 13 JULY 2020 Intelligence and Security Committee 1346 of Parliament of Parliament Chris Grayling (Epsom and Ewell) (Con): I entirely the former members of the Committee? It is right that endorse what the right hon. Gentleman just said about we thank those who have given public service. From my the Committee’s previous members. Although many of experience, I would say that Dominic Grieve was one of us on the Government Benches had some points of the most intelligent men I ever met in Parliament and he difference with Dominic Grieve in his last few months is someone I hold personally in the highest regard. I in the House, I worked with him over many years, and happen to disagree with him on what turned out to be he was a very distinguished Chair and a very distinguished the most important political issue of our time, but that parliamentarian. does not mean that one does not both like and admire somebody. The right hon. Gentleman was right also to Mr Jones: I am sure that he will welcome those pay tribute to Keith Simpson and Richard Benyon, comments. as well as to his own colleagues, Caroline Flint and I want to pay tribute to two peers who will no longer David Hanson. They were all public servants who did their sit on the Committee. The first is the Marquess of Lothian, duty on this important Committee. I will not exclude who had sat on the Committee since 2006. He was not the Lords: the Marquess of Lothian, better known as only a great fount of knowledge but took a keen interest, Michael Ancram, who is a very distinguished servant of and having that historical knowledge on the Committee the Conservative party and has always played an active was very important. The second is Lord Robin Janvrin, role in public life—some might think a model of what a who also took a keen interest in the Committee and Marquess ought to do; and Lord Janvrin, who also worked very hard. Being a Cross Bencher, he brought a played an important role on the Committee. This is a different perspective from the party political point of time to thank those who are no longer going to serve, view, and he made a huge contribution. Both should be but also to recognise the many abilities of those looking recognised for the work they did on the Committee. to serve. The shadow Leader of the House raised the length of I very much agree with the comments about how it is time it has taken to form the Committee. It concerns important to have proper democratic oversight of the me, because this is not the first time. In the last Parliament, way our security services work, but until relatively recent it took an inordinate length of time to form the Committee. times the operation of our security services was entirely Independent oversight of our security services is an secret; it was unknown to anybody. The opening up of important part of our democracy, and we perhaps need the scrutiny of our security services is to the public to revisit the legislation to require the Committee to be good. It ensures that we know what is being done in our formed within a certain period after the election of a name. I am grateful that my neighbour, the hon. Member Parliament. If we have these long delays, we are missing for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), tabled an early-day motion, parliamentary oversight, and if we want to build public because that shows that Parliament is taking this level trust in the work of our security services, that oversight of scrutiny seriously. is important. That leads me to the point about the time it has taken The Committee has completed three reports, although to set up this Committee. A Committee of this importance only one seems to get a lot of mention. The first is needs to have the right people on it. Discussions were the annual report from last year, which is ready to be involved when a number of people had to leave. The published. The second is the report on the procurement two Labour members were not returned to Parliament, of the National Cyber Security Centre at Nova South. and Keith Simpson and Richard Benyon both retired The third, which is obviously of interest to many, is the from Parliament, which meant we had to form a very report on Russia. All three need to be published as a new Committee. That took time, as we needed to ensure matter of urgency. It is important—and I will argue this that the right people, with the right level of experience if the House agrees to my appointment—that the Russia and responsibility, could be appointed, and that they report is produced before Parliament goes into recess. would agree to their appointment. I think we have an There is no reason why it should not be. It has been exceptionally distinguished Committee provided from through the Committee, agreed through the redaction this House: one in which we can all take considerable process and agreed by Government. I would like to see confidence. it published at the earliest opportunity, and possibly I end with a note on foreign interference in elections. next week. I think that has been a matter of concern to politicians In closing, I want to thank the secretariat, who work since the Zinoviev letter,which is widely believed nowadays very hard to service the Committee, and put on record to have been a fake. Fear of foreign interference will my thanks and the thanks of the whole House to the come and go, but for any Government, and particularly men and women of our security services, who work day for Her Majesty’s Government as currently constituted, in, day out to keep us safe. it is and will always be an absolute priority to protect our democratic and electoral processes. During the last election, the Government took steps to protect the 8.59 pm safety and security of our democratic processes. I do Mr Rees-Mogg: I shall answer the points that have been not believe that this House would expect anything less, made, but may I begin by thanking the right hon. Member and I do not think any Government of any colour for North Durham (Mr Jones) for his characteristically would ever do anything that would endanger the security charming speech—it is why he is so highly regarded of our elections. I ask the House to support the motion. across the House—and for the way he paid tribute to Question put and agreed to. 1347 13 JULY 2020 Independent Pharmacies 1348

Independent Pharmacies I am very grateful, as we all are, that the Government provided £300 million in emergency loans to the sector Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House at the outset of the crisis and have provided an additional do now adjourn.—(Maggie Throup.) £70 million since. Those are significant sums of money. The loans are, however, something of a sticking-plaster 9.3 pm solution to cover the immediate covid costs that pharmacists Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con): It is a pleasure have incurred and to make up for the longer-term to open this debate, which was prompted by a letter shortfall. If pharmacists are left holding the bag for the from an independent pharmacist in my constituency, costs that they have incurred through serving their Mr Tim Gibbs, who runs the Yarmouth pharmacy. communities in the past few months, many of them, Those who know it will know that it is not far from our including Tim, are worried that they will be forced to beautiful harbour in Yarmouth and just opposite Yarmouth shut down in the next year or two. I believe that that castle. I am delighted that this Minister is on the Front would be a national shame. The ongoing uncertainty is Bench, as I know she is a great supporter of pharmacies, an additional burden that pharmacists just do not need. pharmacists and indeed independent pharmacists. I am All pharmacists are valuable and they all play an aware that the Health Secretary spoke at the National important role. but because independent pharmacists Pharmacy Association today. He spoke eloquently on are embedded in their community and represent a friendly, the need for a major winter flu vaccination programme, valued and, above all, trusted voice, they take pressure which, clearly, we would welcome. off A&E, GP surgeries and other areas of the NHS. On I will not speak for too long, as I am aware that one the Island, the number of GPs sits at roughly the or two others wish to speak and it is getting late in the average, but as the Minister well knows, we are struggling day, but I wish to cover some of the issues of concern to somewhat to make sure that there is an adequate supply not only pharmacists, but independent pharmacists, who of GPs to provide the primary care that this country are especially important in isolated and rural communities, needs. as other Members here, including those from places such as Cornwall, will testify. I have six independent I know that the Minister is a friend to pharmacists. pharmacists in my patch and all are highly valued. They Can she say something to reassure pharmacists—especially include Tim in Yarmouth, Freshwater, Seaview, Ryde the independent ones—in my constituency and many others and Regent, which covers both East Cowes and Shanklin. that the Government understand their valued and somewhat I am grateful to Gary for taking the time to chat last unique role, over and above chains of pharmacies, and week about some of the issues that have faced him. that the Government wish to support them? Although many healthcare providers closed their doors during the covid pandemic, pharmacists stayed open, Holly Lynch (Halifax) (Lab): I am grateful to the hon. often at risk to themselves and their staff. For many Gentleman, who is making a powerful speech, and I people in our communities, NHS pharmacies were the congratulate him on securing this Adjournment debate. visible face of healthcare on the high street. It is to their Having worked in an independent pharmacy while I was great credit that they stayed open and continued to at school, I recognise the trusted relationship that he serve their patients, often delivering medicines, at their describes between the pharmacist and the community own cost, to the homes of vulnerable and at-risk patients that they serve. When the funding formula for pharmacies to make sure that those patients had what they needed. changed in 2016, the then Minister told the then all-party Pharmacy staff saw patients in person and ensured that group on pharmacy that between 1,000 and 3,000 the public—particularly vulnerable patients—had a pharmacies were expected to close because they would consistent and safe supply of medicine. In doing so, no longer be financially viable in the face of the cuts, so they took considerable pressure off other elements of the outlook for pharmacies was already tough and the health service, including GPs, who were often answering bleak. A significant number of the pharmacies that calls on the phone, and A&E. have closed have been independent pharmacies. Does he agree that that is a real shame, and a real loss to those However, I know from talking to Tim, Gary and communities? other pharmacists in my patch that they face considerable financial insecurity on top of all the other problems. That is worse for pharmacists such as Tim who have to Bob Seely: I thank the hon. Member for making that rely on over-the-counter trade. In Yarmouth, where there point. I was just about to quote those statistics myself, are a lot of yachts at weekends, he can usually make up the but I thank her for teeing up the next bit of what I decline of income in other areas by selling soap and all would like to say. the other good things that chemists sell, but in the covid As I understand it, the budget for community pharmacies period those sales took a significant hit. The same has is £2.6 billion—a significant amount of money but been true for the independent pharmacies and many of quite a small proportion of the NHS’s total budget. It the chemists in my patch. They have incurred many stretches to cover some 11,500 community pharmacies, thousands of pounds in additional monthly costs from serving the majority of the population of the United staying open and serving the community, and some of Kingdom—about 56 million people. On average, each my independent pharmacists have even relied on volunteers. one serves about 5,000 people per month and dispenses Pharmacies have paid for the costs of installing screens, 7,300 prescriptions. buying PPE—although I think the Isle of Wight Council In the last four years, as the hon. Member says, the helped Tim out after he requested it on a couple of funding for pharmacies has shrunk by a significant amount; occasions—hiring locums, paying overtime and absorbing I am quoted a figure of approximately £200 million. the increases in the wholesale prices of medicines, which Tim and other pharmacists in my patch are concerned pharmacists are not allowed to pass on to their customers. that there is now going to be significant additional That has created serious cash-flow problems. pressure, and we have seen statistics to suggest that up 1349 Independent Pharmacies13 JULY 2020 Independent Pharmacies 1350

[Bob Seely] This has been an extraordinary period. Despite its challenges, the coronavirus emergency has revealed many to 3,000 pharmacies could close for good. That has not of the strengths of our health and social care systems. happened yet; these are threats. Some have closed, but One of the most important—a system that extends into the majority are still struggling on. the community well beyond our fantastic doctors and I believe that would be short-sighted in the extreme. I nurses—is, of course, the pharmacy sector. Community am sure the Minister agrees that a sustainable pharmacy pharmacists are a vital part of the frontline. For example, sector is a critical part of the NHS network in this country the Newborough pharmacy was crucial to that village’s because, as I said, it takes pressure off both A&E and response to covid, and I want to place on the record my GPs. We badly need it. Having used an independent thanks to Meb Datoo, his wife and their team at community pharmacy myself, I know the added value Newborough village pharmacy. of having somebody trusted to talk to, whether about a Just as the role of care workers has become better bunged-up ear because I swim too much—well, not at appreciated in the last few months, I believe it is time to the moment—or about more serious concerns. value our pharmacists. They have been an essential NHS pharmacies are ready and willing to support the face-to-face part of our response. According to the test and trace programme—something I have knowledge latest research, more than 60% of the public visited a of in my patch due to our experience trialling the app, pharmacy during lockdown. Three quarters agree that which sadly was not taken further. They could help to the NHS should make more of pharmacists’ skills, both ensure support for test and trace, for home testing kits, in the ongoing covid-19 situation and more broadly. and certainly for the winter vaccination programme, I am a member of the Health and Social Care which is likely to be of increased significance this year Committee, and I am sure that in the future we will look because of the potential for phase 2 of covid, which at the value of pharmacies. The Chancellor of the clearly we all hope does not happen. Exchequer is the son of a pharmacist—that is perhaps There is strong public support for community not well known—so I am confident that the sector is pharmacies. A recent opinion poll showed that 81% appreciated not only by the Minister and her Department, hold a favourable view of pharmacies, 78% value a but in Downing Street. That appreciation is needed. face-to-face relationship—I wish Members of this House Although the role and potential of pharmacies is now had those sorts of approval ratings; we live in hope—and obvious, many are struggling to keep their doors open. more than half want to see emergency covid funding The five-year financial deal for community pharmacies turned into a permanent grant versus the significantly came into effect last summer, but I fear that it is not smaller amount who want to see it repaid. sufficient to keep the sector going, at least by itself. The Crucially,the public are ahead of the health bureaucracy Government have increased funding for the NHS by a in seeing the benefit of having this network of highly record amount, and I am proud of that. I am also proud trained healthcare professionals in many communities of the huge additional support to tackle coronavirus in Britain; 84% say that the NHS should do more to and deal with its consequences.Pharmacists deal with those make use of pharmacists’ skills. It does seem to be a bit consequences every day, and they deserve their fair of a wasted resource when we have people with so much share. Wecannot let them shoulder greater responsibilities skill and ability in dispensing medicine and in being the without the associated funding. first port of call for many when they are feeling under I agree with my hon. Friend that the sector needs to the weather. know whether it is, in effect, being asked to pay for the costs of covid—whether it is being asked to pay back Some 71% of people think pharmacies should be able the £370 million in Government loans. I do not necessarily to expand their offering to take pressure off the NHS. I expect the Minister to provide that answer tonight. I am completely agree. I wonder how we can work towards sure she is sympathetic to the points that have been that betterment, which is certainly in all our interests made, and I therefore hope that she agrees that, although considering the relatively small amount of money compared our pharmacies are an excellent place to acquire a with the overall NHS budget that goes towards pharmacies, sticking plaster, they deserve a lot more than a sticking- specifically community pharmacies. plaster solution. I will round up and let other Members speak, but may I tempt the Minister to talk about how she can 9.16 pm support community pharmacies—the six in my patch but also the 11,500 across Britain? What can she say to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health reassure us that the financial support will be there? and Social Care (Jo Churchill): I am grateful to my hon. Losing independent pharmacies would be much more Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) for expensive in the long run than providing modest additional securing the debate and to the hon. Members who sums to ensure that we help keep their pharmacy businesses contributed to it. We are all pretty much in agreement viable, especially during the covid period, when other about the value of our pharmacies. Our community elements of their business—the cash trade of the chemist— pharmacies are an integral part of our healthcare system. have clearly been declining. I very much look forward to We have often spoken in this Chamber and elsewhere her response. about how assiduously my hon. Friend looks after the health needs of those on the Island, with its unique ecosystem. 9.13 pm As has been said, community pharmacies across the Paul Bristow (Peterborough) (Con): I congratulate country, including those on the Isle of Wight, are at the my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) very heart of our community. Everyone agrees that they on securing this important debate, and I am grateful to play a vital role in providing medicines and health him for willing me to participate. advice to all those who cross their threshold—the hon. 1351 Independent Pharmacies13 JULY 2020 Independent Pharmacies 1352

Member for Halifax (Holly Lynch) said she did that For example, 43% of registered pharmacists come from while at school. Many pharmacists have told me that such backgrounds.Weneed to provide the right environment during lockdown they have had to develop a different to keep everybody working at their optimum level. relationship with their customers, because the whole This year’s pharmacy quality scheme comprises of setting and how they advise has changed. Rather than two parts: an essential element that focuses solely on having a friendly chat, they have had to help many of covid-19 activities, including individual covid-19 risk their older customers navigate their way through the assessments, and a second part that will be in the usual new system. The role of pharmacies is more important spirit of the scheme. I urge all community pharmacists than ever in the covid-19 pandemic. Their sensible to participate in this year’s pharmacy quality scheme, approach has helped to spread the public health message. especially the essential element, which will reward They are integral to the prevention agenda. community pharmacies for undertaking steps to keep I say that because, although the pandemic continues patients and staff safe during the pandemic. to challenge all parts of the health and care system, As my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight local pharmacies have remained open throughout. They will appreciate, we are in regular conversation with the have truly been the frontline. They have adapted to the pharmacycontractors’negotiatingbody,thePharmaceutical pandemic by making their businesses covid-secure. They Services Negotiating Committee. Wehave met stakeholders have innovated and shown immense resilience in responding regularly throughout the pandemic to ensure we have to the challenges brought about by the pandemic. that ongoing dialogue that is so important. We will The Health and Social Care Secretary and I—indeed, continue to work closely with the PSNC, NHS England all colleagues in Government—are hugely grateful for and NHS Improvement to consider what further support the unequivocal commitment shown by community and funding contractors will need during the pandemic pharmacies. I am immensely proud to be the pharmacy and as we move into the recovery phase. Minister. I want to take this opportunity, as I have done We have just entered discussions on firm proposals before, to thank all those who have gone above and for additional funding put forward by the Government beyond during this crisis, helping those in our community to meet the extra costs incurred by pharmacists at the who have walked through the shop door because they peak of the pandemic. To respond to this crisis, we have are frightened or require assistance. Pharmacies have a need to reprioritise certain community pharmacy always been there. contractual framework services. The immediate challenge As the House may recall, last July we agreed a landmark will be to restore those services and programmes planned five-year deal, the community pharmacy contractual for the 2020-21 period where we can do so and where it framework, which committed almost £13 billion to remains the right thing to do. I stress that we will work community pharmacy or about £2.6 billion a year. It is by talking to the profession, because this has been an the joint vision for how community pharmacy will support extremely difficult time and, as everybody has said, delivery of the long-term plan. Community pharmacists pharmacists have responded amazingly to the demands are part of our community life, and independent that have been put on them. pharmacists account for almost 40% of the market. There is also an opportunity to learn from the pandemic They are integral to the success of delivering the five-year and facilitate changes that may have been more difficult deal and supporting the NHS. As we have heard this previously.Wewill continue to build capacity and capability, evening, patients value the diversity of pharmacies and test new services for potential future commissioning, the different settings in which they interact with their and focus services on the areas that have the most communities. impact on the population’shealth. Community pharmacies Maintaining access to NHS pharmaceutical services have demonstrated how they can increase the uptake of continues to be a key priority for the Government. The flu vaccinations, as my hon. Friend the Member for Isle pharmacy access scheme protects access in areas where of Wight said. That will be particularly important this there are fewer pharmacies and higher health needs, so winter, when we know that there will be increased that no area is left without access to local, physical uptake. I am keen for community pharmacies to do NHS pharmaceutical services. more in partnership with GPs in their local area and for During this crisis, the Government have put in place them to be as one with their colleagues and treated like a financial package to provide support to all businesses, other members of the entire NHS family that we value including independent pharmacies. Under the NHS so much. I sometimes feel that those in community contractual arrangements, we have made available pharmacies feel that perhaps we could go a little further £370 million in advance payments to help pharmacies in saying a big thank you to ensure that they feel part of with their cash flow. We have also provided additional the valued broader primary care network. funding for the new medicine delivery service for shielded Isle of Wight community pharmacists are exceptional; patients to ensure that the vulnerable get their medication, indeed, in the past they have won awards for their work and covered the cost of bank holiday opening. We are on the administration of hepatitis B and hepatitis C vaccines. increasing the reimbursement prices for the most commonly We want to consider the role of community pharmacists prescribed generic medicines by £15 million a month in future vaccination programmes to maximise access. from June. The hon. Member for Halifax mentioned the anticipated We have responded to concerns from the sector by loss of some 3,000 pharmacies; on this morning’s Zoom pausing some work in order to prioritise day-to-day call with the National Pharmacy Association, the Secretary activities and enable an environment that provides space of State was clear that that would not happen on his to do the day job safely and, importantly, supports the watch and that any loss of pharmacies stopped when he health and welfare of staff. That is particularly important arrived. Like me, he sees the value of community given the high proportion of community pharmacy pharmacists.There are now 11,500 pharmacies throughout staff from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds. England, which is an uplift of some 12% since 2010. 1353 Independent Pharmacies13 JULY 2020 Independent Pharmacies 1354

[Jo Churchill] digital and technology. We will of course engage with the sector on any proposals that we make. Any regulations I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for in this policy area would come before Parliament. Peterborough (Paul Bristow) that this period has shown I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight how vital pharmacists are and the importance of the again for securing this important debate. I know that role that they play for us all. the coming months will continue to be challenging for The Medicines and Medical Devices Bill, which goes Tim and the other community pharmacists that my to the Lords next week, will introduce legislation that hon. Friend mentioned, but it is really important that will pave the way for further consultation on what more they know quite how much they are valued by Members the Government can do to support dispensing arrangements from all parties, but mostly by their communities. I am and a better skill mix in community pharmacy.With such personally committed to continue to do all that I can to a highly skilled workforce, if we can free up pharmacies support community pharmacies, which are an essential to better use their skills for patient-facing services, part of our lives, our high streets and our NHS family. helping to alleviate pressures not only on pharmacies Question put and agreed to. but in primary care, that will help the whole sector and be a recognition of the high skill level that we have. We will help people, including those on the Isle of Wight, to 9.28 pm adopt innovative practices, including the greater use of House adjourned. 41WS Written Statements 13 JULY 2020 Written Statements 42WS

New regulations allow some additional businesses Written Statements and venues to reopen. This includes outdoor swimming pools and water parks from 11 July; and salons, nail Monday 13 July 2020 bars, spas, massage parlours, tattoo parlours, and body and skin piercing services from 13 July. Although these businesses and venues are permitted to open, treatments carried out in the highest risk zone, the area directly in front of the face, are advised against at this stage. TREASURY The changes outlined above will not apply in Leicester and businesses there will not reopen. This is in line with current easing of restrictions in the rest of the country. Finance Bill: Legislation Day From 25 July, we will allow the safe and covid-secure reopening of indoor swimming pools, gyms, fitness and dance studios, leisure centres, and other indoor sports The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Jesse Norman): venues and facilities (as long as the evidence continues The Government will introduce the Finance Bill following to support our doing so). This will be enabled through a the next Budget. separate set of amendments to the regulations. In line with the approach to tax policy making set out We must continue to proceed carefully to make sure in the Government’s documents “Tax Policy Making: a that there is not a second peak. The changes set out new approach”, published in 2010, and “The new Budget above will be conditional on our ability to control the timetable and the tax policy making process”, published virus and respond effectively to outbreaks.The Government in 2017, the Government are committed, where possible, will measure the effect of changes but will reapply to publishing most tax legislation in draft for technical restrictions if that is what the situation requires, as we consultation before the legislation is laid before Parliament. have had to do in Leicester, and we will work with local The Government will publish draft clauses for the councils which have a high prevalence of covid-19 to next Finance Bill, which will largely cover preannounced create guidance reflecting where further business openings policy changes, on Tuesday 21 July 2020 along with could be delayed. accompanying explanatory notes, tax information and Everybody must play their part in observing and impact notes, responses to consultations and other complying with covid-19 secure and social contact guidelines supporting documents. All publications will be available to keep the virus under control and maintain our recovery. on the gov.uk website. Publicly available Government guidance is being published [HCWS356] and updated on gov.uk and by sector bodies. [HCWS357] DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT HOME DEPARTMENT Covid-19: Restarting Businesses and Activities Points-based Immigration System The Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Oliver Dowden): I would like to update the The Secretary of State for the Home Department House on the next steps in delivering the UK Government’s (Priti Patel): In 2016, and again in 2019, the British covid-19 recovery strategy. people voted to take back control of our borders and These important steps forward have been made possible introduce a new points-based system that will work for by the continued efforts of businesses and the public to the whole of the UK. The Immigration and Social comply with covid-19 secure guidelines and clinical Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) Bill delivers advice on testing to protect against resurgences. While on these votes by ending the automatic right to live and there remains a long way to go in tackling this virus, we work in the UK for EU migrants from 1 January 2021. continue to head in the right direction. In February I set out the vision for a fairer, firmer, The Business Secretary and I have worked with industry skills-led immigration system. The system will play a and public health experts to help the remaining sectors key part in our long-term approach to the labour market and activities to become covid-secure, and reopen as and in our response to the coronavirus pandemic. soon as possible. Following this work, I can confirm that as of 11 July At a time where an increased number of people organised outdoor grassroots team sports and participation across the UK are looking for work, the new points-based events are now able to restart, starting with cricket. system will encourage employers to invest in the domestic Team sports will only be able to resume once the UK workforce, rather than simply relying on labour relevant sports’ bodies guidance has been reviewed by from abroad. Public Health England and the Health and Safety Executive. But we are also making necessary changes, so it is Outdoor performances with an audience are now able simpler for employers to attract the best and brightest to take place, as of 11 July, subject to social distancing. from around the world to come to the UK to complement We will also pilot a number of indoor performances to the skills we already have. look at how we can confidently usher socially distanced We know this new immigration system and approach audiences indoors as soon as possible. Rehearsals and to the labour market will mean changes in the way performances for broadcast are already permitted, and businesses operate and recruit. Today I am laying before dance studios can already reopen for professional dancers the House a command paper (CP 258) providing further and choreographers. detail on the points-based system, covering the main 43WS Written Statements 13 JULY 2020 Written Statements 44WS economic migration routes for those wishing to work or professionals applying can expect a decision on whether study or set up a business in the UK, to help both they can work in the UK within just three weeks, employers and applicants prepare and adapt for the following biometric enrolment. We will exempt frontline changes ahead. Copies will be available from the Vote workers in the health and social care sector and wider Office. health workers from the requirement to pay the immigration health surcharge. It will be simpler for businesses to access the talent they need as we have removed the resident labour Our Global Talent route launched earlier in the year market test, lowered the skills and salary threshold, and encourages highly skilled individuals to come to the removed the cap on skilled workers. UK and provides a fast track route for top scientists and researchers. The skilled worker route gives employers flexibility by allowing applicants to trade points if they have To ensure our world-leading education sector remains relevant qualifications or work in a shortage occupation. competitive in a changing global market, we are refining Wehave commissioned our independent migration experts the student route and launching a graduate route in to produce a shortage occupation list, so that the summer 2021. The student route will be streamlined for Government can work with sectors to fill roles quickly sponsoring institutions and applicants, and the graduate where shortages may occur. route will help retain the brightest and the best students We will be introducing a new-fast track Health and to contribute to the UK post-study. Care visa. This will make it easier and quicker for Our new system sends a message to the whole world talented global health professionals to work in our that Britain is open for business, but on our terms. brilliant NHS and in eligible occupations in the social [HCWS355] care sector. The visa fee will be reduced and health 7MC Ministerial Corrections13 JULY 2020 Ministerial Corrections 8MC

Gentleman came with me to that event. We can then Ministerial Correction look at the figures together and perhaps work on getting the app into more people’s pockets as we go. Monday 13 July 2020 The following is an extract from Defence questions on Monday 6 July 2020. Margaret Greenwood [V]: The Minister said that the veterans’ gateway app will put veterans’ care in the palm DEFENCE of every veteran in the country. Will he tell us what estimate his Department has made of the number of Veterans: Covid-19 Support veterans who do not have a smartphone and what his The following is an extract from Defence questions on Department is doing to reach them? Monday 6 July 2020. Johnny Mercer: It is a completely fair point that many of our veterans are of an age group who will not Navendu Mishra: The Minister said that the veterans’ be digitally able to access this app. The app was never gateway app would put veterans’ care in the palm of designed to be something that is all encompassing. It is every veteran in the country. Can he tell us how many simply another measure in the suite of options that we people have downloaded and used this app in its first are offering to veterans in this country to make sure two months? that this is the best country in the world in which to be an armed forces veteran. There is a whole host of other Johnny Mercer: I have not formally launched the ways of looking after our veterans, such as breakfast veterans’ gateway app at the moment. We are going clubs that we all get involved in. When this app does through a process of working with users and so on to come out, I will be looking at ways to make it even more make it more user-friendly. That is an ambition of user-friendly, particularly to our older veterans, to whom mine: to put veterans’ care in the palm of every single we owe such a great debt. veteran in this country. We will have a formal launch [Official Report, 6 July 2020, Vol. 678, c. 651.] and I would be delighted if the hon. Gentleman came Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence with me to that launch. We can then look at the figures People and Veterans, the hon. Member for Plymouth, together and perhaps work on getting the app into more Moor View (Johnny Mercer): people’s pockets as we go. An error has been identified in the response I gave to [Official Report, 6 July 2020, Vol. 678, c. 650.] the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood). The correct response should have been: Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor Johnny Mercer: It is a completely fair point that View (Johnny Mercer): many of our veterans are of an age group who will not An error has been identified in the response I gave to be digitally able to access this app. The app was never the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra). designed to be something that is all encompassing. It is simply another measure in the suite of options that we The correct response should have been: are offering to veterans in this country to make sure that this is the best country in the world in which to be Johnny Mercer: I launched the veterans’ gateway app an armed forces veteran. There is a whole host of other on 1 May. We are going through a process of working ways of looking after our veterans, such as breakfast with users and so on to make it more user-friendly. That clubs that we all get involved in. Before the app launched is an ambition of mine: to put veterans’ care in the palm we did extensive testing to ensure it was user-friendly, of every single veteran in this country. We will have particularly to our older veterans, to whom we owe such a formal event and I would be delighted if the hon. a great debt. ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 13 July 2020

Col. No. Col. No. HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 1235 HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Covid-19: Domestic Violence...... 1235 Points-based Immigration System...... 1236 Covid-19: Public Order ...... 1242 Police Funding...... 1237 Covid-19: Support for Asylum Seekers ...... 1247 Police Officer Numbers ...... 1240 Immigration Health Surcharge Exemption ...... 1243 Sexual Exploitation of Children: Organised Online Harms: Social Media...... 1246 Gangs ...... 1245 Places of Worship: Hate Crimes...... 1245 Topical Questions ...... 1249 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Monday 13 July 2020

Col. No. Col. No. DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 41WS TREASURY ...... 41WS Covid-19: Restarting Businesses and Activities ...... 41WS Finance Bill: Legislation Day...... 41WS HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 42WS Points-based Immigration System...... 42WS MINISTERIAL CORRECTION

Monday 13 July 2020

Col. No. DEFENCE...... 7MC Veterans: Covid-19 Support...... 7MC No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 20 July 2020

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 678 Monday No. 85 13 July 2020

CONTENTS

Monday 13 July 2020

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1235] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for the Home Department

Sale of Arms: War in Yemen [Col. 1255] Answer to urgent question—(Greg Hands)

EU Exit: End of Transition Period [Col. 1268] Statement—(Michael Gove)

Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill [Col. 1287] Read a Second and the Third time and passed

Stamp Duty Land Tax (Temporary Relief) Bill: Business of the House [Col. 1287] Motion—(Michael Tomlinson)—agreed to

Stamp Duty Land Tax (Temporary Relief) Bill [Col. 1291] Motion—(Jesse Norman)—agreed to

Stamp Duty Land Tax (Temporary Relief) Bill [Col. 1338] Motion for Second Reading—(John Glen)—agreed to Considered in Committee, read a Third time and passed

Intelligence and Security Committee of Parliament [Col. 1343] Motion—(Mr Rees-Mogg)—agreed to

Independent Pharmacies [Col. 1347] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 41WS]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 7MC]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]