Monday Volume 682 12 October 2020 No. 117

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES ()

Monday 12 October 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT

MEMBERS OF THE CABINET (FORMED BY THE RT HON. , MP, DECEMBER 2019)

PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN,COMMONWEALTH AND DEVELOPMENT AFFAIRS AND FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER AND MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE—The Rt Hon. , MP LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE FOR JUSTICE—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DEFENCE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HEALTH AND SOCIAL CARE—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR BUSINESS,ENERGY AND INDUSTRIAL STRATEGY—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE, AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES—The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WORK AND PENSIONS—The Rt Hon. Dr Thérèse Coffey, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR EDUCATION—The Rt Hon. CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ENVIRONMENT,FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR HOUSING,COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR TRANSPORT—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR —The Rt Hon. CBE, MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR SCOTLAND—The Rt Hon. , MP SECRETARY OF STATE FOR —The Rt Hon. , MP LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS AND LORD PRIVY SEAL—The Rt Hon. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park SECRETARY OF STATE FOR DIGITAL,CULTURE,MEDIA AND SPORT—The Rt Hon. CBE, MP MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. , MP DEPARTMENTS OF STATE AND MINISTERS Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alok Sharma, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Business, Energy and Clean Growth) Lord Grimstone of Boscobel, Kt (Minister for Investment) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP , MP Paul Scully, MP Lord Callanan Cabinet Office— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE DUCHY OF LANCASTER AND MINISTER FOR THE CABINET OFFICE—The Rt Hon. Michael Gove, MP MINISTER WITHOUT PORTFOLIO—The Rt Hon. Amanda Milling, MP PAYMASTER GENERAL—The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Chloe Smith, MP (Minister for the and Devolution) Lord Agnew of Oulton (Minister for Efficiency and Transformation) Lord True CBE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARIES— Julia Lopez, MP Johnny Mercer, MP (Minister for Defence People and Veterans) § Defence— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Ben Wallace, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Defence Procurement) Baroness Goldie DL PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP (Minister for the Armed Forces) Johnny Mercer, MP (Minister for Defence People and Veterans) § ii HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

Digital, Culture, Media and Sport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Oliver Dowden CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Digital and Culture) The Rt Hon. John Whittingdale, MP (Minister for Media and Data) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP , MP § Baroness Barran MBE Education— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Gavin Williamson CBE, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Michelle Donelan, MP (Minister for Universities) The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for School Standards) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Vicky Ford, MP , MP Baroness Berridge of the Vale of Catmose § Environment, Food and Rural Affairs— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. George Eustice, MP MINISTER OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Rebecca Pow, MP Lord Gardiner of Kimble , MP Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office— SECRETARY OF STATE AND FIRST SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Dominic Raab, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for the Middle East and North Africa) The Rt Hon. Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Minister for the Pacific and the Environment) § , MP (Minister for Asia) Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Minister for South Asia and the Commonwealth) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— James Duddridge, MP , MP Baroness Sugg CBE Health and Social Care— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Matt Hancock, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— , MP (Minister for Health) , MP (Minister for Care) Nadine Dorries, MP (Minister for Patient Safety, Mental Health and Suicide Prevention) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Jo Churchill, MP Lord Bethell of Romford Home Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Priti Patel, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Security) , MP (Minister for Crime and Policing) § Baroness Williams of Trafford Lord Greenhalgh (Minister for Building Safety and Communities) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Kevin Foster, MP Chris Philp, MP § Housing, Communities and Local Government— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Robert Jenrick, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Luke Hall, MP (Minister for Regional Growth and Local Government) The Rt Hon. , MP (Minister for Housing) Lord Greenhalgh (Minister for Building Safety and Communities) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—, MP HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont. iii

International Trade— SECRETARY OF STATE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE, AND MINISTER FOR WOMEN AND EQUALITIES— The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— The Rt Hon. Greg Hands, MP (Minister for Trade Policy) Lord Grimstone of Boscobel, Kt (Minister for Innovation) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Graham Stuart, MP , MP Kemi Badenoch, MP (Minister for Equalities) § Baroness Berridge of the Vale of Catmose (Minister for Women) § Justice— LORD CHANCELLOR AND SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Robert Buckland, QC, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Lucy Frazer, QC, MP Kit Malthouse, MP (Minister for Crime and Policing) § PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Alex Chalk, MP § Chris Philp, MP § Law Officers— ATTORNEY GENERAL—The Rt Hon. , QC, MP SOLICITOR GENERAL—The Rt Hon. Michael Ellis, QC, MP Leader of the House of Commons— LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL AND LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS—The Rt Hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP Leader of the House of Lords— LORD PRIVY SEAL AND LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS—The Rt. Hon. Baroness Evans of Bowes Park DEPUTY LEADER OF THE HOUSE OF LORDS—The Rt Hon. Earl Howe CBE — SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Brandon Lewis CBE, MP MINISTER OF STATE—, MP Scotland Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Alister Jack, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— Iain Stewart, MP David Duguid, MP § Transport— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Grant Shapps, MP MINISTERS OF STATE— Chris Heaton-Harris, MP , MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Rachel Maclean, MP Baroness Vere of Norbiton Treasury— PRIME MINISTER,FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY,MINISTER FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE AND MINISTER FOR THE UNION— The Rt Hon. Boris Johnson, MP CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER—The Rt Hon. Rishi Sunak, MP CHIEF SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. , MP FINANCIAL SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. , MP MINISTER OF STATE—Lord Agnew of Oulton DL § ECONOMIC SECRETARY—John Glen, MP EXCHEQUER SECRETARY—Kemi Badenoch, MP § PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY—The Rt Hon. Mark Spencer, MP LORDS COMMISSIONERS— James Morris, MP Rebecca Harris, MP David Duguid, MP § , MP , MP Michael Tomlinson, MP iv HER MAJESTY’S GOVERNMENT—cont.

ASSISTANT WHIPS— , MP David T. C. Davies, MP § Alex Chalk, MP § , MP , MP Nigel Huddleston, MP § Eddie Hughes, MP UK Export Finance— SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INTERNATIONAL TRADE AND PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE—The Rt Hon. Elizabeth Truss, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—Graham Stuart, MP Wales Office— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Simon Hart, MP PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE—David T. C. Davies, MP § Work and Pensions— SECRETARY OF STATE—The Rt Hon. Dr Thérèse Coffey, MP MINISTER OF STATE—Justin Tomlinson, MP (Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work) PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARIES OF STATE— , MP Guy Opperman, MP , MP Baroness Stedman-Scott OBE, DL Her Majesty’s Household— LORD CHAMBERLAIN—The Rt Hon. Earl Peel GCVO, DL LORD STEWARD—The Earl of Dalhousie MASTER OF THE HORSE—Lord de Mauley TREASURER—, MP COMPTROLLER—, MP VICE-CHAMBERLAIN—Marcus Jones, MP CAPTAIN OF THE HONOURABLE CORPS OF GENTLEMEN-AT-ARMS—The Rt Hon. Lord Ashton of Hyde CAPTAIN OF THE QUEEN’S BODYGUARD OF THE YEOMEN OF THE GUARD—Earl of Courtown BARONESSES IN WAITING— Baroness Penn Baroness Scott of Bybrook OBE Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist LORDS IN WAITING— Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay Viscount Younger of Leckie

§ Members of the Government listed under more than one Department

SECOND CHURCH ESTATES COMMISSIONER,REPRESENTING THE CHURCH COMMISSIONERS—Andrew Selous, MP REPRESENTING THE SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE ON THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION—Christian Matheson, MP REPRESENTING THE SPEAKER’S COMMITTEE FOR PARLIAMENTARY STANDARDS AUTHORITY— Sir Charles Walker, MP REPRESENTING THE HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION—, MP CHAIRMAN OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION—The Rt Hon. Sir , MP HOUSE OF COMMONS

THE SPEAKER—The Rt Hon. Sir , MP

CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dame , MP FIRST DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—The Rt Hon. Dame , MP SECOND DEPUTY CHAIRMAN OF WAYS AND MEANS—Mr , MP

PANEL OF CHAIRS— Rushanara Ali, Sir David Amess, Hannah Bardell, Mr , Mr , Sir Graham Brady, Sir , Judith Cummins, Geraint Davies, , Peter Dowd, Ms Angela Eagle, Clive Efford, Julie Elliott, Yvonne Fovargue, The Rt Hon. Sir , Ms Nusrat Ghani, The Rt Hon. Dame Cheryl Gillan, James Gray, Sir Mark Hendrick, Mr , Stewart Hosie, The Rt Hon. Sir George Howarth, Dr Rupa Huq, The Rt Hon. Sir Edward Leigh, Steve McCabe, Siobhain McDonagh, The Rt Hon. Esther McVey, The Rt Hon. , The Rt Hon. , Mrs Sheryll Murray, The Rt Hon. , Ian Paisley, Mark Pritchard, Christina Rees, Mr Laurence Robertson, Andrew Rosindell, Mr Virendra Sharma, Sir , Graham Stringer, Derek Twigg, Sir Charles Walker SECRETARY—Chris Stanton

HOUSE OF COMMONS COMMISSION— The Rt Hon. The Speaker (Chairman), Ian Ailles (Director General of the House of Commons), Dr John Benger (Clerk of the House and Head of the House of Commons Service), Jane McCall (External Member), Dr Rima Makarem (External Member), The Rt Hon. Jacob Rees-Mogg, MP (Leader of the House), The Rt Hon. Valerie Vaz, MP, Sir Charles Walker, MP, The Rt Hon. Dame Rosie Winterton, MP, Pete Wishart, MP SECRETARY TO THE COMMISSION—Marianne Cwynarski ASSISTANT SECRETARY—Robert Cope

ADMINISTRATION ESTIMATE AUDIT AND RISK ASSURANCE COMMITTEE AND MEMBERS ESTIMATE AUDIT COMMITTEE— Dr Rima Makarem (Chair), , MP, Mr Clive Betts, MP, Frances Done, Jane McCall, Sir Charles Walker, MP SECRETARY TO THE COMMITTEE—Hannah Bryce

COMMONS EXECUTIVE BOARD— Mostaque Ahmed (Finance Director and Managing Director, Finance, Portfolio and Performance), Ian Ailles (Director General of the House of Commons), Dr John Benger (Clerk of the House and Head of the House of Commons Service), Isabel Coman (Managing Director, In-House Services & Estates), Sarah Davies (Clerk Assistant and Managing Director, Chamber and Committees), Mandy Eddolls (Managing Director, HR and Diversity), Eric Hepburn (Director of Security for Parliament), Tracey Jessup (UK Parliament Chief Digital and Information Officer), Dr Edge Watchorn (Managing Director, Participation), Penny Young (Librarian and Managing Director, Research and Information) SECRETARY TO THE BOARD—Rhiannon Hollis

SPEAKER’S SECRETARY—Helen Wood SPEAKER’S COUNSEL—Saira Salimi SPEAKER’S CHAPLAIN—The Rev. Canon Patricia Hillas PARLIAMENTARY COMMISSIONER FOR STANDARDS—Kathryn Stone

Monday 12 October 2020

1 12 OCTOBER 2020 2 THE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OFFICIAL REPORT

IN THE FIRST SESSION OF THE FIFTY-EIGHTH PARLIAMENT OF THE OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND [WHICH OPENED 17 DECEMBER 2019]

SIXTY-NINTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH II

SIXTH SERIES VOLUME 682 FOURTEENTH VOLUME OF SESSION 2019-2021

communities disproportionately well, helping our House of Commons Government’s levelling up agenda. What assessment have the Government made of the impact on earnings Monday 12 October 2020 of individuals who gain a level 3 qualification, rather than sticking at level 2? The House met at half-past Two o’clock Gavin Williamson: My hon. Friend raises an incredibly important point, because there is so much evidence that PRAYERS if people have an A-level equivalent qualification, the benefits that they will have throughout their life are significant, with an increase of 10% of average earnings [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] for those who gain that qualification. That is why our Virtual participation in proceedings commenced (Order, lifetime skills guarantee is so vital to ensure that people 4 June). right across the country have the opportunities that we [NB: [V] denotes a Member participating virtually.] want all our constituents to have. Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]: Oral Answers to Questions Educational attainment depends very much on the quality of the teachers. In Scotland, teachers must attain a specified professional standard, which is not necessarily EDUCATION replicated in other parts of the UK. The General Teaching Council for Scotland has raised concerns about the United Kingdom Internal Market and its implications The Secretary of State was asked— for the profession in Scotland, so will the Secretary of State agree to meet the General Teaching Council for Educational Attainment Scotland to discuss these concerns? Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): Gavin Williamson: Of course, we would always be What steps his Department is taking to help ensure happy to meet. improvement in educational attainment in each region of the UK. [907344] (Harlow) (Con): My right hon Friend is right to delay the exams, as announced today. What The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): assessment has been made of the students who missed My Department is committed to raising standards across learning over the past six months in terms of the the country and levelling up opportunities for all. Our catch-up needed for the learning they have lost, and £1 billion covid recovery package includes a £350 million what is the plan, if students are sent home, to ensure national tutoring programme targeted at disadvantaged that they carry on learning at home online? pupils, and we continue to invest in the growth of strong academy trusts to drive attainment in areas facing particular Gavin Williamson: My right hon. Friend raises the challenges. vital point that we need to ensure that we have continuity of education. I think every Member of this House Mr Holden: In blue wall constituencies such as North recognises the value that all children gain from being in West Durham and more broadly across the north of school with their teachers and having the opportunity , it is quite clear that the Government’s lifelong to learn, and that is why issuing the direction of continuity learning announcement will really benefit people and of education and ensuring that schools are held accountable 3 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 4 for delivering education even if pupils are having to Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab) [V]: isolate at home is so incredibly important. We need to Data from Ofsted shows that the number of nurseries ensure that every child, whether they are in the classroom and other childcare providers with coronavirus cases or at home, is getting the education that they require. has, on average, been doubling every week since the start of September, yet many early years workers cannot Childcare: Parental Access access covid tests or get quick results, which is forcing them to stay at home. I have heard from a nursery in (Hyndburn) (Con): What steps his Surrey that has been forced to close as a result, affecting Department is taking to help support parents’ access to 40 children and depriving their parents of childcare. childcare. [907345] Will the Minister confirm whether childcare workers still qualify for priority testing? If so, why are they not (Newbury) (Con): What steps his getting it? Department is taking to help support parents’ access to childcare. [907354] Vicky Ford: Yes, I can absolutely confirm that education and childcare workers, including those in the early The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education years, are essential workers and have priority access, via (Vicky Ford): High-quality childcare supports children’s the online booking portal. That has been the case since development and helps parents to work, and we are April. therefore continuing to bulk-buy childcare hours from the sector at pre-covid levels, even if providers had Further Education: Public Transport and Covid-19 closed due to the pandemic. Some 708,000 children attended an early years setting on 1 October, which is an Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab): What discussions increase of about 300,000 compared with the end of the he has had with the Secretary of State for Transport summer term. We have also encouraged schools to on the availability of public transport for young people ensure that after-school and breakfast clubs are reopening. in further education during the covid-19 outbreak. [907346] Sara Britcliffe: Many residents in Hyndburn and Haslingden have contacted me regarding our manifesto The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education commitment to delivering a £1 billion flexible childcare (Gillian Keegan): We have been working closely with the fund to support parents and children with holiday and Secretary of State for Transport to ensure that young wraparound care. What progress is being made on people can travel and continue to travel to their place of delivering on that promise? education during the coronavirus pandemic. We have made £44 million available to fund additional dedicated Vicky Ford: I thank my hon. Friend for raising such transport to schools and colleges, and we will announce an important question. We know that families want to additional funding shortly. be able to access affordable out-of-school childcare, and that is particularly important during the school summer Navendu Mishra: Does the Minister accept that the holidays, so our manifesto commitment is to establish a Government have a responsibility to ensure that local new £1 billion fund from next year to help to create authorities have the funds available to operate low-cost more accessible childcare, including before school, after travel schemes, such as the System One scheme in school and in the summer school holidays. As with all Greater Manchester? Does she agree that it is unacceptable future commitments, this is dependent on the outcome for the Treasury to simply devolve cuts, which will of the spending review, and I hope to be able to update ultimately have an impact on young people? the House with further details following the spending review. Gillian Keegan: Of course we have taken very seriously the issue of ensuring that children can get to school and Laura Farris: Nurseries in west Berkshire suffered a colleges; there has been not only an extra £2 billion in loss of fee income during the lockdown, and they are funding to help people to walk to school and to make it now anxious about a reduction in parental demand. safe for them to get to school, but £44 million for They are grateful for the guaranteed funding until the dedicated transport. So the Treasury is putting a lot of end of this year, but what assessment has my hon. investment into this area. Friend made of the recovery of parental demand, and what assurances can she give the sector for the rest of Home Learning: Covid-19 the academic year? Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): Vicky Ford: May I start by thanking childcare providers What estimate he has made of the number of school in west Berkshire and across the country for providing children that did not have access to (a) a laptop or such essential support for our very youngest children? (b) another device to facilitate home learning when This term, we have committed to block buying those hours schools were closed during the covid-19 lockdown. from providers, provided that they are open, regardless [907347] of how many children are attending, and local authorities should pass that funding on. We are obviously looking The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): closely at the situation from next term, and the future As part of £160 million invested to support remote funding will be dependent on the funding review, but education, more than 220,000 laptops and tablets have the really good news is that attendance is increasing already been delivered, with 40,000 routers additional and, on 1 October, the numbers showed that it was to that. We are now supplementing this support by about 80% of the pre-covid usual daily level of attendance. making available 250,000 additional devices in the event 5 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 6 that face-to-face schooling is disrupted. This represents A white working-class boy—an example who represents an injection of nearly half a million laptops and tablets a substantial proportion of pupil numbers in Lincoln—is for those most in need. 10% less likely to participate in higher education than any other ethnic group or gender. What is my right hon. Siobhain McDonagh: But from 22 October schools Friend doing, and what has he done, to ensure that we will be required to provide remote education to those close this gap and that the ongoing pandemic does not pupils isolating because of coronavirus. Ofcom estimates make the situation worse? that up to 1.78 million children in the UK have no access to a laptop, desktop or tablet at home, and this Nick Gibb: I do remember that important debate that policy will fail them. With less than two weeks until the my hon. Friend secured. I share his determination to see changes, how can the education of those children be the academic attainment gap between disadvantaged guaranteed? Is it not time to ensure that every child pupils—including white working-class boys—and others entitled to a free school meal is provided with internet closed. That determination has been at the core of all access and an adequate device at home? our education reforms since 2010, particularly in respect of the focus on phonics in the teaching of reading, the Gavin Williamson: The hon. Lady will probably be evidence-based approach to the teaching of maths, and familiar with our policy and the fact that we have set up a more knowledge-based curriculum. Since 2011, the support for schools that will have to provide remote attainment gap between disadvantaged pupils and others education for children, whereby we are making sure that has narrowed by 13% at key stage 2 and by 9% at key those children from the most disadvantaged backgrounds stage 4. The £1 billion catch-up premium, with £350 million are properly supported by this programme and investment specifically targeted towards disadvantaged students, is of half a million laptops. designed to address the widening attainment gaps caused by measures taken to tackle the covid pandemic. Online Education: Children and Covid-19 Online Learning: Universities and Covid-19 (Bolton North East) (Con): What steps his Department is taking to help ensure children who are self-isolating during the covid-19 outbreak receive Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab): What steps he is high-quality online education. [907348] taking to help ensure university students have access to digital and online learning during the covid-19 outbreak. Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con): What steps his [907349] Department is taking to help ensure children who are self-isolating during the covid-19 outbreak receive high- The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): The quality online education. [907359] Government are working to ensure that all students have access to digital learning, including by helping providers The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): Although to draw upon the existing funding of £256 million for the vast majority of children are back in the classroom, the year 2020-21 to go towards the purchase of IT we have made 250,000 laptops and tablets available in equipment and wider hardship support. The Government the event that face-to-face education is disrupted, building expect universities to continue to deliver high-quality on more than 220,000 already delivered to those most in academic experiences for all students. need. We have also made resources available to schools to deliver high-quality online education, alongside the Government-funded Oak National Academy, which is Richard Burgon [V]: The Secretary of State should providing video lessons across a broad range of subjects. have seen the new analysis today that shows that infection rates on university campuses are up to seven times Mark Logan: What measures are this Government higher than those in surrounding areas. There are fears putting in place to ensure that disadvantaged children that this will spread the virus to higher-risk groups in right across Bolton have extra online support to get the local community. The Government should have them through the winter of covid and put a spring in moved teaching online before term started, as the University their step in 2021? and College Union recommended. Will the Minister accept the Government’s error in not doing so and Nick Gibb: It is vital that students have a spring in instruct universities to move to online learning as the their step and that they have access to high-quality remote default? Or will she and the Government continue to education, so we have invested more than £160 million play Russian roulette with the lives of students, staff in connectivity, devices and support—including more and local communities? than 980 laptops and tablets to Bolton Council—alongside additional devices delivered to academy trusts. We are Michelle Donelan: The Government have prioritised now making available 250,000 more devices nationwide education. We do not believe it would be right to put in the event of further disruption. My hon. Friend will students’ lives and academic journeys on hold. Although be pleased to know that Bolton schools and academies only a small proportion of university populations have have already received more than £1 million in their first covid, it is an awful experience for every student who is catch-up premium payment. having to self-isolate, which is why it is so important that support—from providing food to mental health Karl McCartney [V]: Covid-19 has had a detrimental and wellbeing support—is there for those students. I effect on some of the most underprivileged children in was pleased to see the Universities UK statement last week our society. My right hon. Friend will remember a detailing the sector’s commitment to that support, which Hall debate in September 2016 on this issue. is in line with exactly what the Government expect. 7 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 8

Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) we know that they could not all attend due to their own (Lab): In the Education Select Committee sitting last circumstances, it is incredibly important that they all Tuesday, the Minister was unable to answer how many get back to schools.On remote learning, to support schools students are self-isolating and therefore totally reliant in delivering remote education, we have delivered a on accessing digital and online learning. She was also range of resources and guidance, including specific unable to answer how many students have covid-19; how support for children and young people with SEND. we will ensure that tests are available to students; when Obviously, those who were eligible for laptops, receive the two-week late “imminent” guidance, with robust laptops and devices as part of that programme. frequently asked questions on students returning home for Christmas, will be published; or even how many Access to Education: Local Lockdowns students are currently learning only online. What impact does the Minister think her Government’s incompetence and inability to answer basic questions about covid-19 Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): in our universities is having on the spread of the virus in What steps he is taking to help ensure that access to university towns and cities? education for all children is maintained during local covid-19 lockdowns. [907351] Michelle Donelan: I will begin with the Christmas guidance, which is certainly not late—I am sure the The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): hon. Lady will understand that it is important that we The Department is committed to the continuation of get this right. I am working with the sector, with a high quality education for all pupils. We have asked that sub-working group—the taskforce—to identify the issues every school plan for the possibility of local restrictions and ensure that comprehensive guidance is forthcoming. to ensure continuity of education. We have published a That commitment to students on Christmas remains. direction, which provides an express legal duty on schools Around 9,000 students currently have covid. This is the to provide remote education where needed. data that has been sent to us by universities. It is the cumulative number of cases over the past seven days Stuart Anderson: In our mission to level up, I am keen and is based on a student population of about 2 million. to ensure that every child has the resources and support Public Health England informs us that 68 universities that they need to thrive. What is the Secretary of State have outbreaks. We will go back to those universities to doing to ensure that the most vulnerable children and ascertain that data and, as of next week, working with those with complex needs, such as the wonderful children the Office for Students, there will be a new data regime, at Penn Fields in my constituency, can have everything which will be much more transparent. that they need to thrive during this time?

Children with SEND: Covid-19 Gavin Williamson: My hon. Friend and constituency neighbour is right to highlight the brilliant work at Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): What Penn Fields School that serves not only his constituents, steps he is taking to support children with special but mine as well. I will, if I may, also highlight the educational needs and disabilities returning to school wonderful work of Wightwick Hall School, which is in during the covid-19 outbreak. [907350] my constituency and also serves his constituents as well. They are doing an amazing job during this pandemic, The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education but it is right to ask how we can support them more. (Vicky Ford): Children with special educational needs That is why, in terms of covid catch-up funding, the and disabilities have faced many challenges during the support that we are providing for those special schools pandemic, and some of them will find returning to is three times the rate of that going to mainstream school difficult, but the good news is that more than schools, which recognises the extra challenges that they 80% of those with education, health and care plans are have to deal with. now attending. Wehave published guidance and resources to support schools to re-engage pupils with learning. A-Levels: Covid-19 Weare increasing high-needs funding by a nearly quarter—a record amount—over a two-year period and we are also providing an additional £1 billion in catch-up support Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): What steps he is taking for schools. to help ensure fairness in A-level exams in the 2020-21 academic year following the disruption of the covid-19 Vicky Foxcroft [V]: I asked the Education Secretary outbreak. [907352] on 2 July and again on 7 September about support for children with SEND during the covid-19 catch-up. He The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): Exams said that he would write to me, but that letter has not are the fairest form of assessment. has confirmed been forthcoming. I ask again: what assisted technology changes to A-level assessment content, and we have is being offered as part of the distribution of laptops announced today a short delay in the exam timetable to and tablets to enable pupils to work from home if free up teaching time to ensure that exams remain a fair needed? Will the Minister provide an answer this time assessment for all. or will I have to do this again next month? Henry Smith: Significant concessions were under- Vicky Ford: I am enormously proud of the fact that standably made for A-level graduates this year because we are one of the few countries in the world that have of covid-19, but what plans are being developed asked schools to remain open for vulnerable children, to ensure that next year’s A-level students are not including those with the most severe disabilities. Although disadvantaged in terms of university places? 9 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 10

Nick Gibb: The Government and universities understand of £18 a day for food parcels are quite simply outrageous. what a difficult time young people have had. We are Students self-isolating in catered halls should receive committed to working together to support the 2021 free food, while other students should receive food that cohort: that is a key priority. We are also working with is either free—as many universities, including Sheffield Ofqual and the exam boards to consider our approach Hallam and Edge Hill, are doing—or at a price that can to exams and assessments in 2021. be afforded within a student’s budget. I have spoken to many universities on this, and I am also writing to them University Teaching and Student Services: Covid-19 to make the point. (Gedling) (Con): What recent steps he Special Schools: Covid-19 has taken to help ensure that universities can deliver safe (a) teaching and (b) student services during the Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): What steps covid-19 outbreak. [907353] his Department is taking to support special schools during the covid-19 outbreak. [907355] Bim Afolami (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): What recent steps he has taken to help ensure that universities The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): can deliver safe (a) teaching and (b) student services We have published specific guidance to support the full during the covid-19 outbreak. [907357] opening of special schools. Recognising the additional challenges that they face, we have announced a package The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): We of support worth £1 billion, which includes a £650 million announced a package of measures in May to support catch-up premium with additional weighting for specialist the sector. We have also issued guidance on reopening, settings. We are also increasing the high needs funding reflecting advice from the Scientific Advisory Group for by an additional £1.5 billion over this year and next. Emergencies, and we have worked with universities to ensure that they have outbreak plans that are shared Sir David Amess: I visited the excellent Fairways with their local Public Health England teams. We will Primary School in my constituency this morning. I have shortly provide additional guidance on winter planning also been contacted by two special schools, Estuary and end-of-term preparations. High School, which is having difficulty in getting tests for their students in their residential homes,and Kingsdown Tom Randall: A constituent of mine who is also an School, which is very worried about the new guidance associate lecturer at Nottingham Trent University wrote issued on 28 August in terms of social distancing. Will to me to say that a safe start to the new academic year my right hon. Friend look at those two points for me, would be a boost in a year that has been awful in so please? many ways. Why was it important to reopen universities? Does my hon. Friend agree with my constituent’ssuggestion Gavin Williamson: All schools are issued with sets of that specific testing and monitoring systems for universities testing kit, and they have the ability to order more via might help to provide a safety net for very close-knit groups? the NHS portal. I would be very happy to look at the two points highlighted by my hon. Friend. Michelle Donelan: This Government have prioritised education. We simply cannot ask students to put their Schools: Covid-19 Costs lives, or their academic journeys, on hold. To do so would mean removing opportunities, damaging social Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con): What steps the mobility and punishing young people. The education Government are taking to support schools that have and welfare of students is at the forefront of all our incurred additional costs during the covid-19 outbreak. decisions. That is why we have worked and continue to [907356] work with the Department of Health and Social Care to ensure that students get access to tests if symptomatic Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): What so that the trace work can kick in immediately. recent discussions he has had with school leaders on providing financial support for additional costs incurred Bim Afolami: Last week I spoke to several constituents by schools during the covid-19 outbreak. [907358] who are students at university.As per the Minister’sanswer, I think it is fair to say that education and welfare, in The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): Schools many respects, leaves a lot to be desired. Could she and have continued to receive their core funding throughout the Department help me to understand why several the covid-19 outbreak and have been able to claim universities are not giving face-to-face teaching at all, funds to meet certain exceptional costs in the period even in an appropriate socially distanced way; are being between March and July. We have so far paid out extremely draconian in the way that certain students are £58 million to schools, with further payments due later being treated in terms of their social contact, which is a this autumn, and we are also providing £1 billion in critical part of being at university; and, in some cases, catch-up funding. The Department and Ministers regularly are even charging £18 a day for food parcels? Could the meet school leaders on a range of covid-19 issues, Minister put appropriate pressure on universities—not including in relation to costs faced by schools. all of them but those that are not performing—to sort this out? Anthony Mangnall: I have been going back to school, and in doing so I have been speaking to a number of Michelle Donelan: Universities are offering blended headteachers and principals who are increasingly alarmed learning unless they have moved to a higher covid tier, about the costs they have incurred on PPE spend. What in conjunction with their local Public Health England is the Minister doing to assure them that their budgets team. But let me be clear: no university should seek to will not be stripped and that they will be able to recoup profit from students self-isolating, and reported charges some of those losses? 11 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 12

Nick Gibb: Schools have continued to receive their top of the £780 million increase for this year, which core funding and should be using that to support their means that the block will have grown by £1.5 billion, covid-19 expenditure. They have also been able to claim which is an increase of nearly a quarter. In Hertfordshire, up to £75,000 to meet certain exceptional costs in that funding for the high needs block will grow by 24% over period between March and July. Brixham College and that two-year period. King Edward VI Community College have applied to the exceptional costs funds, and King Edward VI has Stephen McPartland: I welcome the increased received payments and Brixham will be receiving payments Government funding in Hertfordshire, but the county shortly. council does not pass it through to families on the frontline. It is cutting funding to our Delivering Special Ellie Reeves: Headteachers in my constituency tell me Provision Locally groups. Our child and mental health they are having to invest significantly in extra cleaning services are overwhelmed. It is focusing on process, procedures and safety measures, as well as extra staff to instead of our children with SEND. Will the Minister cover periods of self-isolation. Further, many schools undertake a review of the real accessibility of SEND have also lost reliable income streams from hiring out services in Hertfordshire and help me hold the council spaces and fundraising events. Even before covid-19, to account, so that we can fix SEND in Hertfordshire? school budgets were already stretched after years of Vicky Ford: I thank my hon. Friend for his concern cuts. With the pandemic set to continue, will the Minister for the young people of Hertfordshire and their families. commit today to extra funds for schools in the months The Government are undertaking a major review of the to come? special educational needs and disabilities system. It is a major priority for the Government and we are considering Nick Gibb: This year is the first of a three-year funding improvements to make sure that the SEND system is settlement for schools. It is the largest increase in school consistent, high quality and integrated across education, funding for more than a decade, with £2.6 billion health and care and, importantly, that it works with more funding for schools this year. In the hon. Lady’s parents, carers and families to make sure that they and constituency, pupil-led funding will rise by 2.2% this their children are at the heart of the system. year. Apprenticeships Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab): Last week, the Schools Minister told me, as he has just alluded to, (Henley) (Con): What steps his Department that schools have already submitted claims for £148 million is taking to increase the number of apprenticeships. for help with the extra covid-related costs they faced [907362] between March and July.As he just said, the Government have so far paid £58 million to schools for help during The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education that period. Why is it that the Government accept that (Gillian Keegan): I thank my hon. Friend for his question schools needed that additional help with covid costs and for his support for apprenticeships. Apprenticeships earlier in the year, but are now ignoring pleas from will be more important than ever to support our economic headteachers for the resources they need for covid-related recovery and help businesses to recruit the right people costs from September onwards? When will the Government and develop the skills they need to recover and grow. To recognise the significant extra costs of supply teachers support employers to offer new apprenticeships, they required when staff self-isolate? can now claim £2,000 for every new apprentice they hire under the age of 25 and £1,500 for those aged over 25. Nick Gibb: The hon. Lady is right that schools have been able to claim for exceptional covid-related costs John Howell: As a country, we rightly champion our for that period of March to July. Our priority now, as wonderful universities. However, we are often too slow— schools reopen to all pupils, is to target the available particularly in schools—to promote apprenticeships. extra funding on catch-up, supporting schools to help Will my hon. Friend assure me that she is doing everything all pupils to catch-up lost teaching time when schools in her power to ensure that apprenticeships are seen as a were closed to most pupils. The £1 billion catch-up valid part of our education system? funding includes £650 million distributed on a per pupil basis to all schools, which means that a typical 1,000-pupil Gillian Keegan: I can reassure my hon. Friend that, as secondary school will receive £80,000 in extra funding this a former apprentice, this is very much at the forefront of year. That is on top of the three-year funding settlement my focus. The Prime Minister and the Chancellor have that I mentioned earlier—the biggest funding boost for made it clear that further education is now more important schools in a decade. than ever. That is part of the reason we are introducing once-in-a-generation reforms of the FE system through our skills White Paper, underpinning the progress we SEND Education Funding are already making with T-levels, which is backed by £500 million of funding per year, investing £1.5 billion Stephen McPartland (Stevenage) (Con): What recent in the transformation of the FE college estate, investing assessment he has made of the effectiveness of funding £2.5 billion through the national skills fund and introducing arrangements for SEND education. [907361] a new entitlement for adults without qualifications at level 3. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Vicky Ford): We are putting an extra £730 million into Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): The Minister funding those with complex special educational needs is right to say that apprenticeships are more important and disabilities next year, which represents a 10% increase than ever, but for all the rhetoric, the way that the year-on-year in the high needs block, and that comes on Government introduced the apprenticeship levy saw 13 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 14 level 2 and level 3 apprenticeship numbers falling to Janet Daby [V]: Religious education helps children to their lowest level for a decade before coronavirus. Since grow up with an understanding of and respect for people then, we have seen generous incentives in the new kickstart from different religious, ethnic and cultural backgrounds. scheme and much less generous incentives for It is also a statutory requirement, but the Religious apprenticeships. For all that the Minister says, why do Education Council tells me that 40% of all schools give this Government consistently introduce policies that no hours to RE in year 11. Does the Minister agree that have the effect of reducing the numbers doing level 2 the Department needs to better support schools to ensure and 3 apprenticeships? that they are meeting their obligations to teach RE?

Gillian Keegan: The hon. Gentleman refers, I think, Nick Gibb: I agree with the hon. Member. Good to the switch from frameworks to standards, which did quality religious education can help to develop children’s have an impact on some of the numbers, but it was most knowledge of the values and traditions of Britain and important that we focused on the quality of apprenticeships. other countries, and foster understanding among different There were a number of apprenticeships early on, when faiths and cultures. At a national level, the proportion we introduced the reform of the system, that were not of time secondary schools spend teaching RE has actually of the desired quality. Young people put their trust in remained broadly stable. It was 3.2% of all teaching us, in the apprenticeship provider and in the employer, hours in 2010 and 3.3% in 2019. and it is most important that they get very high-quality Summer 2021 Year 11 Exams apprenticeships; that is our focus. Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) University STEM Subjects (Con): What steps his Department has taken to plan and prepare for arrangements for year 11 exams at the Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): What steps his end of the 2020-21 academic year. [907365] Department is taking to encourage more people to take up STEM subjects at university. [907363] The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): We continue to believe that exams are the fairest form of The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): The assessment. Today we announced our plans for next Government encourage the study of science, technology, summer’s year 11 exams to take place—the GCSEs—and engineering and maths at all stages, which is vital for we will work with Ofqual to engage the sector in planning our economy and to drive productivity.In higher education, for a range of scenarios of potential disruption to we are removing loan funding barriers for part-time exams to ensure students get the results they deserve. STEM study at equivalent or lower levels and piloting graduate conversion courses for studying engineering, Caroline Nokes: I welcome my right hon. Friend’s computer science and . written statement today and thank him for ending the uncertainty that was facing pupils, teachers and parents alike. Please can he reassure constituents such as one of Virginia Crosbie: In my constituency of Ynys Môn, I mine, 15-year-old Charlotte, who wrote to me a couple am working with Coleg Menai, M-SParc and the team of weeks ago and inspired this question today, that next at Bangor University to organise an innovation jobs year’s exams will take into account the disruption there fair.How is the Minister encouraging innovative companies has been to their learning, while allowing them to such as Dyson to invest in the next generation? demonstrate their ability and what they have learned over the past few years, and please will he reassure her Michelle Donelan: Dyson’s UK site is based just that further detail as to how that will be achieved will be outside my constituency, and I must declare that it has coming very soon? twice sponsored the Wiltshire Festival of Engineering, which I have organised. I am delighted that, as of last Nick Gibb: My right hon. Friend raises an important week, the pioneering Dyson Institute will be able to point. We do believe that the subject level changes to the award its own degrees. A business taking this step is content of assessment that was confirmed by Ofqual revolutionary, and I hope that many more will follow, to recently will reduce the pressure on students and free up give students a much more diverse choice in higher teaching time. Combined with the timing changes to education and ensure that we can deliver the skills that exams announced today, this does free up more teaching this country needs. time to help address any unfairness. On top of that, as I have said before, there is the £1 billion catch-up fund, Religious Education: Maintained Schools and we will have more to say later in the autumn about the issue of grading. Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab): What steps he is Disadvantaged Children: Educational Attainment taking to ensure maintained schools comply with requirements to teach religious education. [907364] Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab): What steps he is taking to (a) improve the wellbeing The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): of disadvantaged children and (b) close the educational Maintained schools are required to teach religious education attainment gap. [907367] to all five to 18-year-olds. Any concerns that a maintained school is not meeting that duty should first go through Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab): What steps he is the school’s complaints procedure, and if the complaint taking to (a) improve the wellbeing of disadvantaged is not resolved, the issue can be escalated to the children and (b) close the educational attainment gap. Department’s school complaints unit. [907373] 15 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 16

Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): What Gavin Williamson: As well as the incredibly successful steps he is taking to (a) improve the wellbeing of holiday activity programme that we saw rolled out disadvantaged children and (b) close the educational across many areas of England, we are looking at what attainment gap. [907379] more we can do in these areas, while recognising the important role that schools play in supporting pupils in The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): their learning but also supporting their families. We are taking unprecedented action to help schools support wellbeing, including wellbeing for education University Education: Covid-19 return training, and world-leading trials on ways to promote mental health wellbeing. Disadvantaged pupils will receive high-quality tuition through the £350 million Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): What estimate he has national tutoring programme, and we continue to provide made of the resources required by universities to support schools with the £2.4 billion pupil premium. teaching and learning for students during the covid-19 outbreak. [907368] Debbie Abrahams: We have seen the educational attainment gap between disadvantaged and advantaged The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): We children widen over the past decade, especially for children are working across Government and closely with the with special educational needs and disabilities. On top higher education sector to provide both practical and of this, earlier this year we heard from the Education financial support through the covid-19 outbreak. This Policy Institute that this attainment gap had widened includes publishing reopening guidance to universities during covid. What is the Secretary of State’s assessment informed by SAGE advice, lifting caps on domestic of the impact of covid on levelling up for SEND medicine and dentistry causes for 2020-21, and providing children? both additional capital and teaching grant funding.

Gavin Williamson: I think the hon. Lady and I have a Ben Lake: I thank the Minister for her response. She shared passion to make sure that we close that gap, may be aware of concerns that the impact of the covid making sure that children, wherever they are born anywhere pandemic on the student experience will see higher in the United Kingdom, have the very best opportunities non-completion rates, despite the best efforts of students in life. As the Prime Minister himself said, talent and and staff to continue teaching and learning throughout ability are evenly spread in this country, but opportunity the outbreak. If non-completion rates were to increase, has not always been so. In an earlier answer to my hon. would the Government consider allocating additional Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West financial support to universities to help cover the costs (Stuart Anderson), I touched on the fact that there is a of non-completion? three times weighting for children with special educational needs in terms of the covid catch-up fund, making sure Michelle Donelan: We have a taskforce that meets that extra support is channelled that way. I am sure that weekly,and non-completion is something we have discussed. the hon. Lady has welcomed the announcements we It is imperative that we support students to continue made not just last year but this year which saw a total of and complete their courses, and that we unlock their £1.5 billion-worth of extra funding being channelled future potential and opportunities. This Government into high need funding in this country over this year are determined to stand by them and ensure that happens. and next year. Topical Questions Mohammad Yasin: The programmes that exist to encourage and inspire bright pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds to access top universities have been severely [907404] Shaun Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Con): If impacted this year. The application deadline for Oxbridge he will make a statement on his departmental medicine and dentistry is this Thursday. What action is responsibilities. the Secretary of State taking to ensure that this year’s state school pupils, who have already been disadvantaged Mr Speaker: The Secretary of State is not here. because of the reduced teaching time and mentoring, Perhaps we will hear the supplementary question, as we get a fair crack of the whip? have no further detail.

Gavin Williamson: I am sure that the hon. Gentleman Shaun Bailey: For students in the Black Country, welcomed the news this year that Oxford and Cambridge T-levels and technical education will be a vital part of welcome more state school pupils than they have ever our story when coming out of this crisis. My further done before. We want to continue to build on that. We education providers are committed to ensuring that we want to ensure that every higher education establishment get this right, but there is some concern about the work makes sure that all the opportunities that they can offer experience time allocation element. Will my hon. Friend are available to every single child, whatever background meet me and representatives from my fantastic FE they come from. college, Sandwell College, to discuss how we can ensure that this system works for students in the Black Country? Gareth Thomas: Tackling rising levels of food poverty would be one good way of improving the wellbeing of The Minister for Universities (Michelle Donelan): T-levels disadvantaged children and helping to raise educational are a fantastic initiative that the Government have attainment, so why will Ministers not extend the holiday rolled out, and I will certainly speak to the Skills hunger food vouchers programme to the half-term holiday Minister and meet my hon. Friend to discuss how this and Christmas holidays? issue can be sorted. 17 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 18

Mr Speaker: The shadow Secretary of State can now ever before. That is why we are investing over £1.5 billion ask two questions to whichever Minister would like to in capital in further education. That is why we are take them. investing more in level 3 A-level equivalent qualifications. That is why we are driving opportunities forward. I will Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): Perhaps I not apologise; if we think we can spend money that was could start by asking the Schools Minister a question, previously channelled to the TUC in a better way to since he is here. The Secretary of State has repeatedly deliver more opportunities in our colleges, yes, we will said that every child would return to school in September, do it in a better way, and that is what we are doing. and I support him in that ambition. Being safely back in school is best for children’s wellbeing and learning. Mr Speaker: May I just say that the Secretary of Latest figures show that one in 10 pupils are out of State will apologise to the House, because it was rather school, as bubbles and year groups are forced to isolate discourteous of him to disappear? whenever a child or a member of staff tests positive for covid. Worryingly, attendance at special schools is down at just over 80%, and some teachers report that parents [907405] (Calder Valley) (Con): Many are withdrawing their children altogether to home-school large companies that are net contributors to the them. apprenticeship levy are in the process of making redundancies among apprentices because of the downturn We are not even at the start of winter, yet hundreds of with the pandemic. In sectors such as aviation, we see thousands of children are already having their learning valuable engineering apprentices being made redundant disrupted. We all agree that a functional test and trace by big names such as Virgin and Ryanair. Will my right system is crucial to keep teachers and children safely in hon. Friend look with the Treasury at whether, for a schools. How many pupils and staff are currently waiting limited period only during the pandemic, instead of for a test result or are forced to isolate? Why have the making apprentices redundant, struggling sectors could Government not included school pupils on the list of use the apprenticeship levy to pay apprentices and to priority groups for testing, as the schools Minister keep them employed and developing their skills? promised?

The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): Teachers Gavin Williamson: Mr Speaker, I apologise for being and headteachers up and down the country have done a a little late. I got waylaid by a colleague asking a tremendous job of getting children back to school, and question outside the Chamber, and I did not realise the 99.8% of schools are open in this country. In special speed at which you were working through the Order schools some 80% of children with education, health Paper; it was so much more efficient than the last and care plans are in school, and we kept schools open Speaker. for children with EHC plans throughout our tackling of My hon. Friend the Member for Calder Valley the pandemic. We have a very successful test and trace (Craig Whittaker) raises a really important question scheme, which is why we are able to pinpoint local about apprenticeships and ensuring that we support outbreaks, and why we have statistics about outbreaks youngsters who may find themselves in a situation with up and down the country. By the end of the month we the company that they are working for where they are intend— not in a position to complete their apprenticeship. That is why we are working very closely across Government Mr Speaker: Order. I say to those on both Front to put in place measures to ensure that if a youngster, or Benches that topical questions are meant to be short anyone of any age, is in a position where they would not and punchy, not full-blown questions. If people want be able to complete their apprenticeship, they can do so, full-blown questions they should ask them earlier. I and to support employers to continue to take on apprentices. have to get through topicals. I call the shadow Secretary That includes the up to £2,000 that employers can of State to ask a question to the Secretary of State. benefit from by taking on apprentices.

Kate Green: I welcome the Secretary of State to his Mr Speaker: Order. It is not my efficiency; 3.15 pm is place. On 1 October, he said that people must be given when topicals start. “the opportunity to retrain and upskill”—[Official Report, 1 October 2020; Vol. 681, c. 541.] Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]: I but it has now been announced that his Department was delighted to hear last week that the Scottish Tories will be scrapping the union learning fund, which supports now support the Scottish National party’s policy on hundreds of thousands of learners each year, many free university tuition. I am sure the Secretary of State with little or no formal education. That scheme benefits will welcome that U-turn, but can he confirm that the workers, our economy and business, so getting rid of it United Kingdom Internal Market Bill will not undermine must be either astonishing incompetence or playing the ability of the Scottish Government to set university shameless politics with people’s life chances. Which is it, fees in Scotland, or to continue providing free university and will the Secretary of State rethink this wrong-headed tuition? initiative? Gavin Williamson: The hon. Lady seems always The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): to miss the point that we live in a United Kingdom of It probably wasn’t worth the wait, Mr Speaker. four nations together, where there is one single market, It is very kind of the hon. Lady to read out the press and that we have to ensure that there is efficient and release that the TUC sent her, but the reality is that we proper use of that market so that all four nations are investing more in skills and further education than properly benefit. 19 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 20

[907406] (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): Gavin Williamson: It looks as if I will be spending the In my constituency, our secondary schools are near full day with my hon. Friend as we tour Wolverhampton, capacity. With bigger year groups to come as the which would be an absolute delight. I look forward to population of Cornwall continues to grow, will my joining him in doing that. Let me take the opportunity right hon. Friend work with me to explore the option to thank not just those teachers, support staff and of a new free secondary school for the children of my parents but, most importantly, the children, who have constituency? ensured that the return of schools has been such a success, with so many children getting back to school Gavin Williamson: My hon. Friend raises such an and having the opportunity to learn. Despite the efforts important point about the importance of having the of some, this has been a success, and children are the right provision in Cornwall for her constituents. When I ones who are benefiting more than any others. visited her constituency, I saw how she was campaigning so hard to get the very best for all her constituents. I [907418] Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) would be very happy to meet her to discuss this further (LD): Some 1.7 million children across the whole of the and to discuss how best to ensure that we deliver the United Kingdom have no access to a desktop, laptop brilliant provision she is always rightly fighting for. or tablet devices for learning while away from school. That is the scale of the digital divide in this country. [907407] (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): The impact of that will be with us for some years to By the end of this year,Stoke-on-Trent will have completed come. What are Ministers doing, along with their a 104-km city-wide full fibre network capable of gigabit colleagues in the devolved Administrations, to ensure speeds. We have the ambition to create a UK-leading that we close that gap once and for all? digital academy in Stoke-on-Trent that offers something truly unique to young people, like the BRIT School in Nick Gibb: We take this issue very seriously. We have does, and to have every school and college already supplied 220,000 laptops and tablets to schools across Stoke-on-Trent connected to the full fibre network. and local authorities up and down the country—one of Does my right hon. Friend share my excitement at this the biggest procurements of computer devices in this opportunity, and can he help us make it a reality? country. We have plans in place for another 250,000 laptops, and £160 million has been spent ensuring that Gavin Williamson: I do not just share my hon. Friend’s people have access to the internet should they need to enthusiasm; I am right there with him, cheering it on self-isolate. However, at the moment, 99.8% of schools and making sure that it happens. I pay tribute to him are open and 90% of pupils are in school learning with and other brilliant Conservative colleagues in Stoke-on- their teachers. Trent, including of course the Conservative leader of Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Councillor Abi Brown, [907422] Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): who has been driving this forward so hard. We want to The Secretary of State claimed that more funding had see all schools having that connectivity and the benefits gone into education than ever before, but he will know that the internet can bring for every single child in our that real-terms funding for further education colleges schools. has fallen by 9% since 2013-14 to 2018-19. Will he meet me and Warwickshire College Group to discuss its [907411] Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab): I financial situation? was at Chorlton High School in my constituency on Friday, where over a third of pupils have either no or Gavin Williamson: I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s very limited digital access. It is a similar pattern across predecessor, Chris White, who is involved in the Greater Manchester. More laptops are fine, but they Warwickshire College Group and has already made are no good without decent broadband, so what more representations to me on this matter. We recognise that can the Government do to guarantee—perhaps with the college sector plays an important role. That is why the internet providers—broadband access for pupils we have been increasing the rate of support and funding. who are out of school during this emergency? We will continue to work with the sector to ensure not just its future stability but its future success. Gavin Williamson: The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. When we looked at the provision of [907412] (Dewsbury) (Con): My right support for children, especially the most disadvantaged, hon. Friend has done great work making thousands of we were looking at the equipment not just in terms of laptops, tablets and 4G routers available to disadvantaged laptops or tablets, but the routers that go with them. We school pupils; however, colleges such as Kirklees College have also been working, along with colleagues from the in Dewsbury do not qualify for the scheme and have to Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, use their own funds to support their students. Does he with major internet providers on how we ensure that recognise that these are tough times for colleges, and that provision is available for all youngsters across the will he assure me that he will continue to look at ways to country. support them?

[907408] Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) Gavin Williamson: That is why we have given extra (Con): Will the Secretary of State join me in thanking flexibilities to colleges and made learner support funds all the schools across Wolverhampton for the available for devices and to cover connectivity costs, exceptional job that they have done in the hardest of which is an issue that some students have faced. Further conditions and, when time permits, will he join me in education must be at the heart of our recovery from this visiting King’s, Woodthorne or other great schools pandemic, as it is able to reach into many communities in Wolverhampton? that, in the past, have been left behind. It will not only 21 Oral Answers 12 OCTOBER 2020 Oral Answers 22 create life chances and opportunities for many young as these children are from some of the most vulnerable people, but will drive productivity across all parts of the backgrounds in the country, and we have a duty as a United Kingdom. To ensure that we deliver on that, I state to do everything we can to protect them. look forward to working with my hon. Friend, who is a passionate advocate of further education colleges not (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): just in his constituency but across the country. The purpose of the Office for Students is that “every student has a fulfilling experience of higher education”. [907423] Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): I hope In the light of the current difficulties faced by the Secretary of State is aware of the Children’s undergraduates, will the Secretary of State commit to a Commissioner’s recent report, “Unregulated”, about post-covid review of the OfS? children in care living in unregulated, semi-independent accommodation. Next month I am introducing a ten-minute Gavin Williamson: I will work closely with the OfS to rule Bill that seeks to regulate the supported housing ensure that it is working with universities and that sector. I urge him to speak to his colleagues in the universities are delivering what students expect and Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government require for their studies. We will always work closely to see whether we can all join together to support such with all government organisations to deliver the very vulnerable people. best for students and ensure that universities deliver on students’ behalf. Gavin Williamson: The hon. Lady speaks, rightly, Mr Speaker: In order to allow the safe exit of hon. with a passion and conviction on this issue that I share. Members participating in this item of business and the We want to see this ended; we want to see this changed. safe arrival of those participating in the next, I am It is not something that we can allow to continue. She suspending the House for three minutes. will be aware of the Department’s consultation on the issue, and we look forward to publishing the results in 3.31 pm the not-too-distant future. This is incredibly important, Sitting suspended. 23 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 24

Covid-19 Update virus will infect an average of between 2.7 and three others, but the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies assesses that the current R nationally is between 1.2 and 3.35 pm 1.5. So we are already suppressing that R to well below The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson): With permission, its natural level, which is why the virus is not spreading Mr Speaker, I will make a statement on our continuing as quickly as it did in March, but we need to go further. fight against coronavirus and how we intend to fulfil In recent months we have worked with local leaders to our simultaneous objectives of saving lives and protecting counter local spikes with targeted restrictions. This the NHS while keeping our children in school and our local approach has inevitably produced different sets of economy running, thus protecting jobs and livelihoods. rules in different parts of the country, which are now complex to understand and to enforce. So just as we This morning, the deputy chief medical officer set simplified our national rules with the rule of six, we will out the stark reality of the second wave of the virus. now simplify and standardise our local rules by introducing The number of cases has quadrupled in the last three a three-tiered system of local covid alert levels in England, weeks. There are now more people in hospital with set at medium, high and very high. covid than when we went into lockdown on 23 March, and deaths are already rising. Of course, there are those The medium alert level, which will cover most of the who say that on that logic, we should go back into a full country, will consist of the current national measures. national lockdown of indefinite duration, closing schools This includes the rule of six and the closure of hospitality and businesses, telling people again to stay at home as at 10 pm. we did in March, and once again shattering our lives and our society. I do not believe that would be the right The high alert level reflects the interventions in many course. We would not only deprive our children of their local areas at the moment. This primarily aims to education, but we would do such damage to our economy reduce household-to-household transmission, by preventing as to erode our long-time ability to fund the NHS and all mixing between different households or support other crucial public services. bubbles indoors. In these areas, the rule of six will On the other side of the argument, there are those continue to apply outdoors, where it is harder for the virus who think that the patience of the public is now exhausted, to spread, in public spaces as well as private gardens. that we should abandon the fight against covid, stand Most areas which are already subject to local restrictions aside, let nature take her course and call a halt to these will automatically move into the high alert level. As a repressions of liberty. Of course, I understand those result of rising infection rates, Nottinghamshire, east emotions. I understand the frustration of those who and west Cheshire and a small area of High Peak will have been chafing under the restrictions and the sacrifices also move into the high alert level. they have made. But if we were to follow that course The very high alert level will apply where transmission and let the virus rip, the bleak mathematics dictate that rates are rising most rapidly and where the NHS could we would suffer not only an intolerable death toll, but soon be under unbearable pressure without further put such a huge strain on our NHS with an uncontrolled restrictions. In these areas the Government will set a second spike, that our doctors and nurses would be baseline of prohibiting social mixing indoors and in simply unable to devote themselves to other treatments private gardens, and, I am sorry to say, closing pubs and for cancer, heart disease and hundreds more illnesses bars. We want to create the maximum possible local that have already been delayed and would be delayed consensus behind this more severe local action, so in again, with serious long-term damage to the health of each area we will work with local government leaders the nation. on the additional measures which should be taken. This I am afraid that it is no answer to say that we could let could lead to further restrictions on the hospitality, the virus take hold among the young and fit while leisure, entertainment or personal care sectors, but retail, shielding the elderly and vulnerable, because the virus schools and universities will remain open. would then spread with such velocity in the general population that there would be no way of stopping it As my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has set out, spreading among the elderly. Even if the virus is less the Government will expand their unprecedented economic lethal for the under-60s, there will still be many younger support to assist those affected by these decisions, extending people for whom, alas, it remains lethal. our job support scheme to cover two thirds of the wages of those in any business that is required to close, and We do not want to go back to another national providing those businesses with a cash grant of up to lockdown; we cannot let the virus rip, so since June, we £3,000 a month, instead of £1,500 every three weeks. have followed a balanced approach, with the support of We will also provide local authorities across England many Members across the House, to keep the R down with around £1 billion of new financial support, on top while keeping schools and the economy going, and of our £3.6 billion towns fund. And for “very high” controlling the virus by changing our behaviour to areas, we will give further financial support for local test restrict its spread. That is why we have the rule of six and trace and local enforcement, and assistance from and restrictions such as the 10 pm closing time on our the armed forces—not for enforcement, but rather to hospitality sector. support local services, if desired in the local area. I take no pleasure whatsoever in imposing restrictions on those businesses, many of which have gone to great I can report that we have been able to reach agreement lengths to reopen as safely as possible. Nor do I want to with leaders in Merseyside. Local authorities in the stop people enjoying themselves. But we must act to Liverpool city region will move into the very high alert save lives and the evidence shows that in changing our level from Wednesday. In addition to the baseline I have behaviour to restrict transmission between us, our actions outlined—this is as well as pubs and bars—in Merseyside are saving lives. Left unchecked, each person with the gyms and leisure centres, betting shops, adult gaming 25 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 26 centres and casinos will also close. I would like to put the country back from the brink and whether they can on record my thanks to Steve Rotheram and his colleagues regain control of the virus and provide the support and for their co-operation in very difficult circumstances. confidence that local businesses and communities need. Engagement with other leaders in the north-west, the That is how high the stakes now are, so we will north-east and Yorkshire and the Humber is continuing. consider the package, we will look at the small print of I know how difficult this is—they, like us, like everyone the Prime Minister’s statement, we will discuss them in this House, are grappling with very real dilemmas—but with local mayors, councillors and leaders in the areas we cannot let the NHS fall over when lives are at stake. most affected and we will scrutinise the economic package Let me repeat the offer that we are making to those that sits alongside them. But I have to say to the Prime local authorities: work with us on these difficult but Minister that I am now deeply sceptical that the necessary measures in the areas that are rated very high, Government have actually got a plan to get control of in return for more support for local test and trace, more this virus, to protect jobs or to regain public trust. We funding for local enforcement, the offer of help from have tried to give the Prime Minister the benefit of the the armed services, and the job support scheme, as doubt, but it increasingly feels like the Prime Minister is announced by the Chancellor. several steps behind the curve and running to catch up I believe not to act would be unforgivable, so I hope with a virus that he lost control of long ago. that rapid progress can be made in the coming days. It was less than three weeks ago, on 22 September, Regulations for all three covid local alert levels are that the Prime Minister came to this House to announce being laid today. They will be debated and voted on new restrictions. He said then that the measures he was tomorrow, before coming into force on Wednesday. introducing would We will also keep these measures under constant “curb the number of daily infections” review,including a four-week sunset clause for interventions and that those restrictions were in very high areas. A postcode search on gov.uk, as well “carefully judged to achieve the maximum reduction in the R number”. as the NHS covid-19 app, will show which local alert —[Official Report, 22 September 2020; Vol. 680, c. 797-98.] level applies in each area. We are also publishing updated That has not happened. Those measures have not worked. guidance to explain what the covid alert levels mean for We would not be here today if they had. those who are clinically extremely vulnerable. While these levels specifically apply to England, we continue There is a pattern here. On 1 July, the Prime Minister to work closely with the devolved Administrations to told us of his new whack-a-mole strategy to control tackle this virus across the whole United Kingdom. local outbreaks. Twenty areas have now been in restrictions This is not how we want to live our lives, but this is for more than two months, and 19 of them have seen the narrow path we have to tread between the social and their infection rates rise, some by very large amounts, so economic trauma of a full lockdown and the massive those measures have not worked either. human and, indeed, economic cost of an uncontained In May,the Prime Minister boasted of a “world-beating” epidemic. With local, regional and national Government track and trace system. He told us that it would be a “real coming together in a shared responsibility and a shared game changer” in the fight against the virus. We have effort to deliver ever better testing and tracing and ever debated this many times since, but last week, the figures more efficient enforcement of rules; with ever improving were the worst yet. The Prime Minister promised that therapies and the mountains of personal protective 100% of test results would be turned around in 24 hours. equipment and the ventilators that we have stockpiled; The latest figure for in-person testing is just 24% being and with all the lessons we have learned in the last few turned around in that period. months, we are becoming better and better at fighting This serial failure, combined with the repeated leaks this virus. and briefings to newspapers in the past few days, have Though I must warn the House again that the weeks fatally eroded public confidence just when we need it and months ahead will continue to be difficult and will most, so can the Prime Minister tell us what reassurance test the mettle of this country, I have no doubt at all that, he can give us that these measures today will be sufficient together, we will succeed, and I commend this statement to get the virus under control? Will he finally accept to the House. that trace and isolate should be handed over to local authorities, as we have been saying for months? Will he accept that the support packages announced by the 3.47 pm Chancellor simply will not work for many thousands of Keir Starmer (Holborn and St Pancras) (Lab): I thank people, particularly those on the minimum wage? There the Prime Minister for advance sight of his statement is huge anger about this in the areas under lockdown, and for his telephone call earlier today. and there is a huge gap in the Government’s plan. Will We are at a critical moment—“a tipping point”, to he confirm that Mayors, local leaders, council leaders quote the deputy chief medical officer. We have all seen and others will be fully involved in any future decisions? the clear and alarming trend in infection rates. The Finally, I want to say this to the Prime Minister. virus is now spreading in all areas of the United Kingdom, I know that there will be some on his side who will oppose though much faster in some areas than others. As the further restrictions, who will look at the data and tell Prime Minister and the deputy chief medical officer said, him to disregard it or who will say that the cost of there are more patients in hospital with covid today than acting now is too high. I want to be clear: the worst when the country went into lockdown on 23 March, thing that the Prime Minister can do is not act quickly and deaths are rising. Nobody should be under any and decisively enough, and keep coming back to this illusion about where this is heading or about the need House every couple of weeks with a new plan that does for decisive action. The question today is whether the not work and is not up to the scale of the task. We need restrictions announced by the Prime Minister can bring to break that cycle, finally get on top of the virus and 27 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 28

[Keir Starmer] Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP) [V]: In recent weeks, we have all witnessed the worrying rebuild public confidence. I hope that the measures trends of infection, the upsurge in hospitalisations and, announced today will do that, but the House and the sadly, the increase in death. The danger of the virus is country will be deeply sceptical about whether they can. self-evident. We know that we are at a tipping point, so today must be a turning point, when we must once The Prime Minister: We have had a slight change of again act collectively and get back to the absolute tack, in my view, from the right hon. and learned priority of suppressing the virus, protecting the NHS Gentleman, who has hitherto been willing to support and saving lives. So may I ask the Prime Minister: is the the measures that the Government are putting in place policy to bring the R rate below 1 through the highest-level to restrict the spread of coronavirus. We now see an interventions being proposed? Since the beginning, we equivocation; he wants it both ways. He said he supported have known that mass testing is vital. Any delays in the the rule of six, and then his side refused to vote for it. processing of tests slow the start of contact tracing. He said he is unwilling to support the restrictions we Can the Prime Minister advise what proportion of tests placed on hospitality, and he continually runs down in the past seven days took longer than 48 hours to NHS test and trace. What he will not say is what he process? What steps are we taking to ensure that there is would do or exactly how he would propose to get this no backlog in processing from the Lighthouse labs? virus down without those kinds of restrictions. If he supports the tier 3 measures that Merseyside city region If today is to be a turning point, the UK Government has rightly put into place today, he should say so. He need to carry out another U-turn on financial support should have the guts to say to local leaders across the for workers. It is blindingly and blatantly unfair that country that he supports those measures and that he just as health restrictions are being strengthened economic encourages them to go into tier 3. support is being weakened. The Chancellor needs finally to wake up to that logic. There must be no more last- It is a stunning silence that we have heard from the minute, half-baked economic announcements. Even Tory right hon. and learned Gentleman. We, by contrast, are in the north of England are calling for working with those local leaders to put in place the the furlough to be maintained at 80% of wage support. measures that will protect their populations, protect the Will the Prime Minister give some certainty and security NHS, keep our economy moving and drive the virus to businesses and workers? Will he finally instruct his down. That is our collective endeavour, and I strongly Chancellor to extend the full furlough scheme beyond urge the right hon. and learned Gentleman to work out October? Businesses and workers must not pay the price where he stands and to stop flip-flopping from one side for managing the lockdown with closures and to the next—or rather, to go back to his previous unemployment when their businesses would be viable position, which was to support restrictive measures after these special measures. where necessary to drive the virus down. Will the Prime Minister also confirm that devolved Sir (Chingford and Woodford Administrations will be able to trigger the financial Green) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’sstatement. support directly without requiring approval from the I recognise that these are difficult times and that he has UK Government when they choose to put an area to make difficult and, I hope, balanced choices, balancing under heightened restrictions to help reduce the spread the economic damage against the need to save our fellow of the virus? citizens. In all this, one positive point that has barely been Finally, on and support for the most referred to is that the death rate has fallen from 3% in vulnerable, last Wednesday at Prime Minister’s questions June to 0.6% at the moment, which has to be seen as the Prime Minister suggested that I ask him again on possibly part of what the Government are trying to do. his Government’s plan to maintain the lifeline of the The Government’sstrategy,quite legitimately,is therefore uplift in UC support. So now that he has had another to drive down the infection rate—I understand that—while week to consider it, will he do the right thing and make searching for a vaccine, so I simply want to raise a point the £20 UC uplift permanent? that others including the scientific advisers have raised. There is a lot of talk at the moment about the two antivirals that have now arrived, remdesivir and ivermectin. The Prime Minister: On NHS Test and Trace, capacity Given the Government’s objective of driving down the has massively increased, to 312,000, as the right hon. infection rate, and given that the average age of death at Gentleman knows. He asked what steps we are taking. the moment is 82.4, should we not make those antivirals We are introducing new testing sites—I think it is much more widely available at the earliest opportunity, 500 new testing sites—and we are introducing more labs through GPs and every other doctor, in order to get for testing. He also asks what we can do to get the virus them to people to reduce the likelihood of their going down and the measures we are taking. He is completely into hospital and dying? right that it depends on enforcement and on testing and tracing, but it also depends on each and every one of us Mr Speaker: Order. May I just try to help everybody? following the guidance, working together to get the virus We need short, punchy answers and questions, as that down. That is what I hope he will encourage everyone to will help us to get through everybody on the list. do. On the excellent point he raises about support for businesses that are going to be affected by the latest The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend is, of measures, I would just stress that the Chancellor’s latest course, right to say that we have better treatments, but, job support scheme, at 67%, is highly competitive with alas, the death rate has risen many times over—six times those of all other European countries and indeed it is over—in the past few weeks and we have no choice in more generous than many. We will continue to put our these circumstances, with more people being admitted arms around every worker and every business in this to hospital every day, in order to get the virus down. country to the best of the ability of this country. On the 29 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 30 right hon. Gentleman’s specific point about universal The Prime Minister: We will always do what we can credit, the uplift will remain present for the rest of this to improve the welfare system for those who are not financial year. benefiting, but I remind the House that the self-employed —the group we all care about very much—have so far Mr Speaker: Just to help the House, I will finish the received £13.5 billion of support. We will continue to statement at 5.50 pm, so let us help each other. look after them as well. (South West Surrey) (Con): This morning, Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): One of the many reasons it was announced that the routine testing of asymptomatic why the Prime Minister has proved himself such a NHS staff in hotspot areas would start. This has been formidable and popular politician over so many years long advocated by the Health and Social Care Committee, has been his resolute belief in the common sense of the and I thank the Prime Minister for the progress on it. . Instead of a constant blizzard of arbitrary We all want to avoid a second national lockdown, rules that will serve only to collapse the economy and which would be devastating for jobs. Does my right destroy businesses and jobs, will he remind people of hon. Friend agree that the evidence from China, Korea what is important—social distancing and washing hands, and is that the best way to avoid that is to have and the groups most at risk, including the elderly and earlier, decisive, localised interventions, however difficult people with health conditions—and once again put his and unpalatable, and that today’s difficult decision is trust in the British people to act responsibly? After all, not, therefore, about a trade-off between jobs and health, believing that individuals make better decisions for but ultimately the best way to secure both? themselves, their families and their communities than The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend is absolutely the state can make for them is surely at the heart of right in what he says, and I know that local leaders what it means to be a Conservative. across the country will listen to him. I hope they will accept our offer and go into tier 3 where necessary. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is exactly right, and the best decision that individuals can make for Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD): The themselves, their families and their communities is to Government have asked a lot from people during the follow the guidance: wash your hands; face; space; and pandemic: stay at home; close your business; do not be protect the NHS and save lives. there at the death of a loved one. The British people have borne such sacrifice with grace and resilience; all Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): People they ask from the Government in return is clear from Conwy, which has 122 cases per 100,000 people, communication and basic competence, yet it seems that are not permitted by Welsh law to make non-essential their sacrifices have been squandered by the Government’s journeys into Meirionnydd next door, where cases stand failure to build a robust test, trace and isolate system, or at 18 per 100,000. But people from Liverpool, with even to communicate competently.Will the Prime Minister almost 1,600 cases per 100,000, can still go on holiday promise that the new sacrifices he is asking of people in Gwynedd and Ynys Môn. People in Wales are asking today will not be squandered this time? the Prime Minister: how is that fair?

The Prime Minister: Weare working hard with colleagues The Prime Minister: The guidance is very clear that from all parties to get across our messages, and I am people from areas with very high levels, such as Merseyside, grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the support should not be making those journeys. that he has felt able to give for the measures we have outlined. I believe they can be very effective if they are Sir (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): delivered jointly with local authorities and local support. Is my right hon. Friend aware that, although the case That is what we are working for, and I hope he will join rate remains relatively low in Essex, the number of cases us in that effort. is doubling every 10 days? Is it not better to bring in decisive measures that will suppress the curve before it (Burton) (Con): Pubs throughout Burton climbs, rather than wait until after, provided those and Uttoxeter will appreciate the support available to measures are effective and there is economic support, them through the job support scheme in the event of a particularly for the hospitality sector? local lockdown, but will my right hon. Friend consider the impact on breweries, which will not be eligible for the support but will have no pubs to sell to? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is completely right, and that is why we are bringing in this package. The Prime Minister: I understand the point that my hon. Friend makes. The regular job support scheme will (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Today, of course be available to businesses that are open but we seem to have a partial admission of the failure of the not able to trade in the way that they would want. Government’s outsourced test and trace system. When so many of us have argued for so long that it should be Sir Jeffrey M. Donaldson (Lagan Valley) (DUP): We in the hands of local public health teams, does the must of course do all we can to ensure that the NHS is Prime Minister regret handing billions over to the private able to cope with the current situation. I agree with the sector, which has failed so spectacularly? Will he now Prime Minister that a localised approach is the right give this system back to local public health teams, who one, while keeping schools and businesses open. On know their communities best, so that they can be responsible support for those who have so far not received support, for test and trace in all areas, not just those with high will the Prime Minister commit to putting his arms numbers? Finally, will he stop saying that he has put his around people who have not yet benefited from the arms around the self-employed, when more than 3 million various schemes that the Government have introduced? of them have had no support since March? 31 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 32

The Prime Minister: I repeat the point that I have NHS capacity that exists could be used more effectively, made about the self-employed: £13.5 billion has been so that we have a proper test, trace and isolate system in given to support them, and where there is more we can place? do, we will obviously look at it. The hon. Lady makes an interesting point about whether a local approach The Prime Minister: I am grateful to the right hon. would have been better throughout this than a national Gentleman for his suggestion. I can tell him that we are approach. All the evidence is that we need both. That is already working with the Liverpool City Region on what we have supplied, and that is what we will continue improving local test and trace. His suggestion is very to supply. That is why we are expanding our support for apposite and one, I am sure, that will be taken forward the local approach. The experience of other countries in the course of those conversations. shows that we need a national approach, because otherwise the local test and trace operations simply do not join up. Miss (Derbyshire Dales) (Con): We are Plenty of countries have had that experience, and that is seeing a very unwelcome trend from the Labour party, why we are taking an approach that joins up local test which backs the Government’s sensible measures one and trace with national test and trace. week, only to flip flop and change its mind the next week. Does my right hon. Friend agree with me and Sir (New Forest West) (Con): What several constituents from Derbyshire Dales who say does the Prime Minister make of the special envoy’s that what they want to see is this House working statement that together on sensible policies rather than political point “We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns scoring? as the primary means of control of this virus”? The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. What the people of The Prime Minister: I totally agree with what David this country want to see is unanimous support for Nabarro had to say—I think he is completely right. I measures that restrict the spread of the virus. We have think that the best way to control this virus is common- had that before, and I hope that we will have it again. I sensical restrictions on person-to-person contact, because also hope that Opposition Members who are calling on it is that person-to-person contact that spreads the me to do more in Greater Manchester will prevail on virus. That is what we all need to do. the authorities there to come into tier 3 and to help us to get there. Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) [V]: Northern Ireland is suffering from some of the worst covid figures Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): Tragically, in the UK. Can the Prime Minister follow through on one of the few certainties about this second wave is that his commitment to give the Northern Ireland Executive economic hardship will rise, so why will the Prime the financial firepower to follow the science, do what is Minister not review the level of statutory sick pay, necessary to address a deteriorating situation and give which even the Health Secretary said that he could not businesses the support they need? afford to live on, or, crucially, extend the holiday hunger food voucher programme to cover half-term and the The Prime Minister: Of course. Businesses in Northern Christmas holidays? Ireland will receive exactly the same support on the basis of Barnett consequentials; that is inevitable. The Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have given substantial sums—£380 million already—to Jane Stevenson (Wolverhampton North East) (Con): provide meals for kids in need of free school meals in I welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to work these difficult times, and we will continue, through at a local level, but I hope he will understand my universal credit and other support, to help families disappointment that Wolverhampton has been lumped across this country throughout this crisis. into a tier 2 system, despite the protestations of all three MPs and the local council. My fantastic pubs and Mr (Sutton Coldfield) (Con): I warmly restaurants have done everything asked of them, and welcome my right hon. Friend’s collaborative approach now, because they are in tier 2, they face no financial with local government and with the mayors, but will he support at all and a devastating effect on their viability. bear in mind that we have unity among the politicians Will he urgently look at that? and the public health experts across the under our skilful and much-respected Mayor Andy Street The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, in support of the current levels of restrictions, because but actually, the job support scheme is precisely available they do appear to be working? The medical evidence to pubs, restaurants and businesses in her constituency and political consensus suggest leaving the west midlands that may be open but are not able to trade as they at level 1 with the additional local restrictions. normally would. The Prime Minister: Alas, the virus’s continued rise Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): The Prime across the country is not uniform, but the judgments Minister is aware that, if we are to tackle these horrendous that we have made are ones that we are sticking to. rises in covid-19 in the Liverpool City Region, we need a much more effective track, trace and isolate system, Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): For the record, Mr Speaker, but we do not have one yet. Will he accept my suggestion as you are aware, Halton, although a member of the that we establish a Liverpool City Region test, trace and Liverpool City Region Combined Authority, is actually isolate taskforce, including the NHS, local authorities, in Cheshire.The Prime Minister or his Ministers announced the Metro Mayor and other stakeholders, to report by the new restrictions on 14, 22 and 24 September and as end of this week with suggestions on how the unused recently as 3 October national or local restrictions, 33 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 34 which impacted on my constituency. Is this not an Carolyn Downs, with the leader of the council, Mo Butt, example of how the Government are shifting from one had control of local testing. We were able to test people restriction to the next without any real proper plan? My very quickly, and in surrounding areas. The Government constituency of Halton has a lower rate of infection have taken the majority of the testing away. People are than a number of other areas that are not in the highest told they have to travel miles to get tested and, in restriction rate. May I ask the Prime Minister why addition, care workers have waited seven days to get Halton is in that highest restriction rate when others are their test results. When will the Prime Minister stop his not? obsession with this centralised approach and go for a decentralised approach that works? The Prime Minister: This Government are of course obliged to adapt their plans to combat the virus, as the The Prime Minister: I understand the point that the epidemic changes shape and changes course. Our objective hon. Lady makes, and obviously, again, I am sorry for remains unchanged, which is to get the R rate down in the bad experiences that some people have had with the the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and elsewhere, while excessive turnaround times for NHS Test and Trace and keeping education open and keeping our economy going. so on, but I do think that the mixed approach that we That is something on which both sides of this House are are taking is the right one. We need a joined-up, national united. Test and Trace system combined with the work of local Sir Graham Brady (Altrincham and Sale West) (Con): authorities, and that is what we are delivering. The Prime Minister has said there will be a four-week sunset for areas with the highest restrictions. What Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con): I thank reassurance can he give to areas in tiers 1 and 2, some of the Prime Minister for his statement and for the tireless which have had additional restrictions already for two work that he is putting in to tackle this wretched virus. and a half months, that this will not become a permanent A number of constituents running hospitality businesses state? have contacted me, such as Cheryl, who runs the Station Hotel in Bishop Auckland. She is particularly concerned The Prime Minister: We keep all these things under about the lack of households being able to meet within constant review, and nothing could be more attractive her pub. Can the Prime Minister reassure Cheryl that to the Government than moving the whole country out we will look at lifting those local restrictions as soon as of the present restrictions that we are in as fast as feasibly possible, and that we will also look at taking possible. That requires us all to follow the guidance. every step possible to provide additional financial support for those in tier 2 lockdowns? Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP) [V]: The Prime Minister just said that he wants to put his arms around every worker in The Prime Minister: Of course, and in addition to the country, but that will sound pretty hollow to those providing support for hospitality—pubs—in Bishop people left alone and abandoned, who have been excluded Auckland through the JSS that I mentioned already, from any covid support from this Government. They there is the business rate cut that my hon. Friend is now face a £20-a-week reduction in their universal familiar with and the grants that I have announced credit, so will he answer the question that I am asked by today. But the best thing, as she rightly says, is to get the my increasingly desperate constituents every day? How virus under control so that we can lift these restrictions are they to pay their bills? altogether. That is what we want to do.

The Prime Minister: Don’t forget that this Government (Leeds Central) (Lab): We all know that have increased universal credit by about £7 billion, rising infections will mean more restrictions, but worried perhaps £9 billion—£1,000 a year—and the uplift will staff in viable businesses in Leeds want to know that remain in place for this financial year, as I told the they will be looked after if they are forced to close in House earlier. future. I presume that the Prime Minister can give the House an assurance that the council would be consulted Mr (Wycombe) (Con): By when does my before that happened, but for someone on the minimum right hon. Friend expect to have vaccinated the vulnerable wage who would lose a third of their income in those population? What is his confidence in that date, and circumstances—by the way, the French and German why does he have that confidence? schemes are more generous than those applying here—can the Prime Minister assure my constituents that they will The Prime Minister: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. not, under any circumstances, be evicted from their Alas, I cannot give him a date by which I can promise homes because they could not afford to pay the rent? confidently that we will have a vaccine. There are some very hopeful signs, not least from the Oxford-AstraZeneca trials that are being conducted, but, as he knows, SARS The Prime Minister: I must respectfully take issue took place 18 years ago and we still do not have a with the right hon. Gentleman’s characterisation of the vaccine for SARS. I do not wish to depress him, but we scheme, which remains internationally competitive. In must be realistic about this. There is a good chance of a , it is 60% for some, 70% for others. In Germany, vaccine, but it cannot be taken for granted. it is about the same. In Italy, they have an 80% provision, but there is a serious cap—a very low cap—-in Ireland; Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab): Instead of supporting it is down at 60%. This is a highly competitive scheme, the established system in public health, the Prime Minister and it is one that I think is generous by international has invested £10 billion in privatised companies. It has comparisons. On his point about evictions, nobody not controlled the virus, it has not saved lives and it has wants to see anybody evicted because of the hardship not rebuilt the economy. In Brent, the wonderful CEO, they have suffered because of coronavirus, and that is 35 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 36

[The Prime Minister] Today I am told in a telephone briefing that there is no money available. Which is it, Prime Minister? Can we why we have extended the period in which landlords are fund the local authorities in the north-east to provide prevented from conducting such evictions by a further that effective test and tracing? six months. The Prime Minister: I think the hon. Lady may Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con): Families across have missed what I said. We are putting up to another the country, in whichever of the new tiers, rely on £1 billion into supporting local authorities and £500 million childcare, whether formal or informal. Without it, key into supporting local test and trace and enforcement. workers and those in the wider economy would be unable to work and many children would be unable to Jerome Mayhew (Broadland) (Con): While rightly get to and from school. Will my right hon. Friend make moving to simplify the message, does my right hon. sure that access to childcare, whether it is professional Friend agree that flexible local approaches are the best childcare or relatives and neighbours, remains available way to tackle outbreaks in order to prevent a total throughout this pandemic? lockdown and minimise the wider economic impact, The Prime Minister: Yes, of course. My hon. Friend is particularly on low-incidence-level areas such as Broadland? totally right about the importance of childcare. We remain committed to giving 30 hours of free childcare. The Prime Minister: That is exactly right. That is the The crucial thing about our measures is to keep the strategy that we have been pursuing for some time now, economy moving as much as possible. and that is why it is necessary to intensify the restrictions in some areas. Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): In university cities like Exeter that have a covid spike in student accommodation Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab): The Prime Minister but not yet significant community spread, but that keeps telling us that test and trace provision is being nevertheless inflate local figures, what is the Prime increased, yet the covid-19 testing facility at Bedford’s Minister’s strategy for containing those spikes in student Borough Hall has just reduced its service provision accommodation and preventing the need for lockdowns from seven to four days a week at a time when the affecting the rest of the community? infection rates are rising. So I have a simple question, The Prime Minister: The differentiation that is often Prime Minister: why? made between students and other members of the public is sometimes overdone. Students are playing a heroic The Prime Minister: I would be happy to write to the role in containing the virus where they can in following hon. Gentleman about the test centre that he mentions. the guidance and not spreading it back into their families As I have said, we are increasing test and trace capacity and their home towns. I thank them very much for what and the number of tests conducted the whole time. As I they are doing and hope they continue in that way, in said, I will be happy to write to him about the particular Exeter and elsewhere. case he mentions, but it is still the case that this country continues to test more people and conduct more tests (Eastbourne) (Con): I welcome my than any other country in Europe. right hon. Friend’s decision to reject the twin dire choices of a second national lockdown or letting the (Eddisbury) (Con): The decision to virus rip, and to take up the far more challenging and place Cheshire in tier 2, and the additional restrictions complicated path of localising our actions in particular that that will entail, will inevitably impact on families areas. My constituency is low-incidence for the virus and businesses across Eddisbury, not least the already but the hospitality sector is hard hit, and Christmas is decimated wedding industry and its existing supply chain. now in the frame. What moves might there be, going Will my right hon. Friend look again at what further forward, to hyper-localise actions, and what support targeted support can be made available for that industry, will there be for my constituents’ jobs and businesses? which will struggle to remain viable through another six months of effectively being closed? The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is absolutely right that it would be a wonderful thing if we could hyper- The Prime Minister: I have real sympathy for those in localise actions in the way that she suggests. Alas, the the wedding industry who have been affected. It is a disease being what it is, we cannot reduce to too small a great industry, and times are very tough for them. That size the areas in which we place restrictions. The best thing is why we are putting in the jobs support scheme and that her constituents can do, and the best thing the whole extra grants for businesses. The best way forward is for country can do, to get through this as fast as possible is us to get the virus down and get the spread down, so to follow the package of measures that we have set out. that we can reopen those types of businesses as fast as As I have said to Opposition Members, the best thing possible. would be if cities and regions across the country came together and delivered the package that we have set out. Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab): Last week I asked the (SNP) [V]: Many of my constituents support covid-19 Secretary of State for Health whether he would fund public health measures, but they feel that, despite their local authorities in the north-east that have put forward rhetoric, the Government have not reciprocated. It is a proposal for local test and trace services. He said in not only those 3 million who are excluded from support, response: there are also those on universal credit who will lose the “We put an extra £10 million into the local authorities in £20 weekly top-up, those on legacy benefits who receive the north-east to support contact tracing”.—[Official Report, nothing, or those who missed out on furlough because 5 October 2020; Vol. 681, c. 634.] their payroll was run one day after an arbitrary and 37 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 38 retrospective date. The Prime Minister has boasted seen a super-spreader incident and none has had direct about putting his arms around people, but is it not time contact from the tracing system. Testing and tracing is to show people that he has a heart? not working, so why will the Prime Minister not get a grip and fix those systems, instead of floundering, The Prime Minister: I must repeat what I said earlier: trying to find someone else to blame, and putting more by other global standards this Government have done a lives and more jobs at risk? huge amount—£190 billion already—to support people, businesses, jobs, and livelihoods across the country. On The Prime Minister: That is why we are investing the specific point about universal credit, we have increased massively in NHS Test and Trace, and in a co-ordinated its value by £1,000, and that will remain in place for the local effort. As I have said before, we are now testing rest of this financial year. more people than any other country in Europe, and we have contacted hundreds of thousands of people across Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con) [V]: Will my the country and persuaded them to slow the spread of right hon. Friend join me in thanking Devon County the virus. Rather than continually knocking NHS Test Council and Public Health Devon for their response to and Trace, let us work together to support it and build the virus so far, where swathes of local actions are in public confidence. place to contain local outbreaks? Does he agree that it is vital for national and local government work together Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): The Prime Minister to tackle differences in the regional prevalence of this and the Government have been faced with a crisis the virus? like of which we have not seen since world war two. Despite everything, they have kept our NHS safe and The Prime Minister: Yes. I thank my hon. Friend, and casualties to a minimum, and the economy continues to everybody in Devon, and the local authorities, for their function. Will the Prime Minister commit 100% to my efforts to keep the virus down. This is a giant collective constituents on Ynys Môn to do everything he can to effort, and alas, even in the south-west we are seeing the prevent a second UK-wide lockdown, and join me in virus going up, although by nothing like as much as in thanking them for their incredible effort in keeping our other parts of the country. It is going up across the whole island’s infection rates down? country, and we must work together to get it down. The Prime Minister: I thoroughly congratulate the Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): The Prime people of Ynys Môn on what they are doing and Minister says that he is listening and working with local on keeping infection rates down. I hope that they will authorities, but that simply is not true. Since the beginning continue to work with the rest of the country to follow of the crisis, local authorities and directors of public the guidance and save lives. health have argued for a locally based test and trace system. When will he admit that his national approach Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) and national system has failed? Will he hand over to (Lab): Thousands of women are carrying the anxiety local authorities and directors of public health the not only of bringing new life into this world in the responsibility and resources to ensure an effective local middle of a pandemic, but of potentially having to go test and trace system? That is the only way we will get into labour alone. Despite changes to the Government’s on top of this crisis. guidelines, too few hospitals are allowing women to The Prime Minister: I think I have answered that take a birth partner into hospital with them. As somebody point about four times already. We need a combination who experienced very painful and long labours, I cannot of both national and local. bear the idea of a woman facing that alone. In order that we do not look back in shame on how we treated (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Con): pregnant women and new mothers during this period, Parents in my constituency rely on friends and family will the Prime Minister do what he can to make sure for informal childcare, and even under the new three-tier that hospitals do their bit to ensure that women do not restrictions I believe that informal, pre-arranged childcare face labour alone? can continue. As a new parent himself, I am sure my right hon. Friend understands that sometimes circumstances The Prime Minister: I wholly share the hon. Lady’s dictate that parents need emergency childcare. That is feelings about the vital importance of allowing women happening more and more with childminders or nursery to have a birth partner with them during labour. As she staff having to isolate. Will the Prime Minister confirm rightly says, we have changed the guidelines to make that emergency informal childcare can still be used to that possible, but if she has particular cases in mind assist parents, even under the three-tier system? where this is not happening, I would be grateful if she would write to me with the details. The Prime Minister: Tell me about it, Mr Speaker! My hon. Friend makes an important point, and there Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): The are obviously provisions for 30 hours of free childcare. Government have quite rightly focused on protecting Her point about emergency childcare is well made. That the NHS, but we also need to keep the NHS serving is why we need to keep the economy moving in the way patients in South Cambridgeshire, which, like other that we are. parts of the country, has relatively low levels of covid, but plenty of people with other medical conditions that Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab): need planned and emergency care. As the second wave The chief execs of 17,000 hospitality businesses— strikes, can the Prime Minister tell me what steps the representing half a million jobs and millions of customers Government are taking to ensure that all patients, whatever every week, including many in my central London their condition, can carry on getting the treatment that Southwark constituency—say that not one of them has they need? 39 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 40

The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is spot on. It is The Prime Minister: I hear my hon. Friend, and I so important to avoid an uncontained second wave in understand the point that he makes. Alas, as I said order to protect the NHS, and allow the treatments and earlier, micro control of this virus is very difficult without therapies for other non-covid afflictions to continue. restricting people’s freedom of movement in such a way as to be very difficult for people in Yorkshire. (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab): Just a month ago, the Prime Minister described Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) his moonshot plan, under which millions of tests would (Con): It was very welcome to hear the First Minister of be done and returned every day. He said, Scotland confirm earlier that the three-tier system being “if everything comes together,it may be possible even for challenging unveiled in Scotland in a few weeks will closely align sectors like theatres to have life much closer to normal before with the one for the rest of the United Kingdom, as Christmas.” consistency of messaging is key to saving lives. With Families are now feeling that a normal Christmas is that in mind, will the Prime Minister confirm that a further away than ever, and local health officials in our four nation, whole-UK approach remains at the heart area have said that people are waiting for six days, not a of what the Government are trying to achieve in combating day, to get their test results. If we could come back from coronavirus? the moon and get back to what is happening on planet The Prime Minister: Yes, and I thank my hon. Friend Earth, when will he have enough testing capacity in for what he does to make sure that happens. The ways place so that my constituents can get their results in that we co-operate are much more significant than the 24 hours? differences between us. The Prime Minister: The daily test process has gone Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: Will up by 34% just in the last month, and daily capacity has the Prime Minister confirm that people who can work gone up by 28%. As the right hon. Lady knows, by the from home should do so? Therefore, will he reinstate end of this month, NHS Test and Trace is confident digital democracy in this Parliament, which allowed that it will be doing 500,000 tests—it will have capacity, MPs to participate in debates and ask questions while I should say, for 500,000 tests a day. self-isolating or shielding so that they do not risk infecting other people as they travel to work, infecting others at Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): No work or being infected themselves? one envies the Prime Minister having to make these incredibly difficult decisions. Last week’s Office for The Prime Minister: On this matter, Mr Speaker, I National Statistics community survey showed that by defer to you and the House authorities. far and away the biggest age group catching the virus is the student age group. Since age is a much bigger Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Con): My constituents in predictor of risk than geography, are the Prime Minister’s Ashfield have worked incredibly hard to obey all the advisers considering making recommendations about rules and guidelines to keep covid at bay. I am therefore how individuals can control their own risk by age? deeply disappointed that we have found ourselves in the same lockdown situation as Nottingham, where rates The Prime Minister: One of the issues that we have—I are eight times higher. We are not in tier 3, as I first tried to address this point earlier—particularly with the feared, but that is not a fair reward for my constituents. large numbers of multi-generational households such Can my right hon. Friend please assure me that our as we have in this country, is that it is very difficult to rates will be reviewed on a weekly basis, and that when confine the virus to one age group and one generation. they come down we will be taken out of tier 2? Alas, one of the reasons we are so concerned is that it is starting to spread quite substantially among the over-60s, The Prime Minister: I thank my hon. Friend for as we are seeing now in the Merseyside region. representing his constituents well in the way he does. Of course, we will make sure that we regularly review the measures for his constituency, and indeed for every Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab) [V]: Prime constituency in this country. Minister, disabled people have felt like an afterthought throughout this pandemic. I would like to ask one Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): The only think that is simple question that requires only a yes or no answer. world beating about the Prime Minister’s track and Will there be a sign language interpreter at your press trace system is its capacity to take taxpayers’ money conference this evening? and put it in the hands of friends of the Tory party, and deliver a chaotic system. That contrasts with the The Prime Minister: I doubt we will get one in time, performance of local government, which has performed but the point is registered. miracles at a local level while being starved of resources by the Government, who promised money and then Kevin Hollinrake ( and Malton) (Con): From reneged on that promise. Will the Prime Minister now what the Prime Minister said, I have worked out that provide the resources to local government if he is going the entirety of Thirsk and Malton is in the lowest tier of to give it extra responsibility in delivering track and risk, and I am very keen to keep it there. Now that we trace? have data that is super-local data, can we have restrictions that are super-local? Rather than looking at things on The Prime Minister: I note the ideological scorn of the county-wide level of North Yorkshire, where we any private sector work, which I thought I had left the have varying levels of incidence, can we look at them at Labour party these days, but does not seem to have a district council level, as Hambleton and Ryedale, done. I share the hon. Gentleman’s veneration of local which have very low levels of transmission? authorities, as a creature of local government myself, 41 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 42 and that is why we have given an extra £3.7 billion to modulated local and national measures designed together support local authorities in this crisis. As I told the to get the R down, keep education going and keep the House just now, there is a billion more to come. economy moving.

Gareth Davies (Grantham and Stamford) (Con): (Meriden) (Con): My constituents in is a vast rural county with many large Meriden have worked really hard to comply with the towns. Can the Prime Minister assure me that any guidelines, and I am sure they will adapt to the new tier future restrictions and measures imposed on my county system to protect the NHS and keep the rate of infection will be as targeted as possible and be made together low. Because they have worked so hard, will the Prime with Lincolnshire County Council leadership? Minister commit to working to review things and get them out of tier 2 as soon as possible? They have been The Prime Minister: It is the burden of what I am doing their part, and they deserve it. saying today that we want to do everything in co-operation with local leaders and local authorities. The Prime Minister: Yes. I am aware of the feelings in the midlands and, indeed, around the country. I can tell the people of Meriden that we want to get them out of (Newport East) (Lab): Football clubs any kind of restrictions as fast as we possibly can. such as Newport County AFC have, like many industries, been hard hit by the pandemic. They need to see the Premier League stick to its obligations to provide assistance Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD) [V]: Prime to lower division clubs. Will the Prime Minister ensure Minister, we are all disappointed and distressed that we that happens? are back where we were in March in many ways. The Prime Minister says that he wants to keep the economy going, but for many businesses and individuals, particularly The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed I will. the clinically vulnerable, that will be impossible. Will the Prime Minister and Chancellor end this chop and Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): I change, knee-jerk reaction approach that we have seen thank the Prime Minister and the Chancellor for the in recent days and extend the job retention scheme and £200 billion they have already put in, which has supported furlough until next June so that businesses and individuals employers and employees in my constituency, but North can have certainty and clarity about the support they West Durham constituents in events and hospitality are will get, which will enable them to plan their way under severe pressure at the moment, with restrictions through this crisis? already hammering their bottom line. In County Durham, what support is available for businesses? Does the Prime The Prime Minister: I understand the point that the Minister know when the negotiations on whether we hon. Lady makes, but she will also understand that the will be in tier 3 or tier 3 will be determined with local schemes that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor has authorities? announced go on until next spring. We should not forget that the original furlough scheme has yet to elapse. The Prime Minister: For the implications for his constituency, my hon. Friend should look at the gov.uk Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con): website. He should be in no doubt that the Government The Nightingale hospital in Harrogate has been stood are committed to supporting businesses,jobs and livelihoods up ready for full-staff readiness. That 500-bed hospital across the country. That is why my right hon Friend the was built in 18 days by 600 people—staff from the Chancellor unveiled the job support scheme, and it is NHS, our armed services, Harrogate Borough Council why we have uprated universal credit and put in many and colleagues from the private sector. It was an example other measures, including cuts in VAT and business of local and national working together. Does the Prime rates, that will continue for a long time to come. Minister agree with me that that combination of local and national, public and private is the way to bring all Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP): The Prime the resources we can to tackle this pandemic? Minister has the difficult task of leading the country through this health crisis, and it should not be used to The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. I can assure the score political points in the way that it has been by some people of Harrogate and elsewhere that we are stepping today. However, does he recognise the real concern that up preparations across the country, but the Nightingales, there is, even among many supporters of his party, at as I think Stephen Powis of the NHS has confirmed, are the impact of the policies that have been followed? There being stood up in the north of the country as well. is also questioning of the effectiveness of those policies, because we are back today where we were in March of Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab): The Prime this year. What assessment has he made of the impact Minister will be as aware as anyone that people do not of the policies announced today, in terms of the forced generally go to the pub to meet their own wife; they go closure of businesses, whether that is on jobs, bankruptcies, to the pub to be with other people. In the current long-term health or increased levels of poverty? programme that the Prime Minister has put together, there is no support for those pubs, so he is saying that he The Prime Minister: With respect to the right hon. will cover and support pubs that are forced to close, but Gentleman, we are not back to where we were in March, many of those pubs will find their business model and because the R is not at those levels and we are not going their businesses untenable. Will the Prime Minister do back to a national lockdown of the kind we saw in more to support those pubs that might be open but, March. What we are doing is taking a series of carefully frankly, are not able to make a living? 43 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 44

The Prime Minister: That is exactly why, on top of The Prime Minister: I do not know whether £190 billion the low business rates, the VAT cuts and so on—and the counts as a promissory note or empty rhetoric, but that grants that we have given—the job support scheme is is what the Chancellor has provided so far in support. I directly designed to support those businesses that will am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman says about remain open, like pubs, but which are not able to trade local responses. That is entirely right, and we are certainly as they normally would under some of these restrictions. looking for locally led responses to help us to get the That is what it is there for. virus down.

Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): Businesses in my (Loughborough) (Con): Could the Prime central London constituency are hurting because of the Minister say how we can use the three-tier system to low footfall. While of course we need to take appropriate enable all types of businesses to use a risk assessment measures to control the virus, does my right hon. Friend base to their operation to help them remain open and agree with me that we need to balance the interests of fully working in all but the very high-tier instances? the economy, because it is only with a functioning economy that we can pay for our excellent NHS? The Prime Minister: All businesses that are covid-secure The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend is completely should be able to keep going, and I hope that they will. right, and that is why I made the point, in almost identical terms, earlier on. Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) [V]: Will the Prime Minister Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op) [V]: look at the case of a young constituent of mine who has Can I thank the Prime Minister for listening to calls gone from a successful career in banking to facing the from Members from across Greater Manchester on real prospect of bankruptcy, all because he set up his both sides of the House to work with us locally to own business on the wrong side of the completely tackle the virus while remaining in tier 2, which I think unnecessary cut-off date for self-employed support? He he has announced today? But does he agree with me has used up his savings; he cannot pay the bills. Will the that it is vital we take the public with us, and that means Prime Minister act to close this significant gap in support credibility that the tough measures he is outlining really for the newly self-employed? do follow the evidence of where transmission is occurring? He has yet to provide evidence that closing pubs and The Prime Minister: We have to have some sort of restaurants would make a material difference in cut-off date in order to deal with the possibility of fraud. transmission, but action on households would, so will I am obviously very sympathetic to the hon. Gentleman’s he today recommit to working with Greater Manchester constituent and I wish him all the best. In the meantime, leaders on tackling household transmission—proposals there is the support available under universal credit, but put forward to his office last night? the best thing for him and for the whole economy is to keep things moving and to hope that he gets the kind of The Prime Minister: The deputy chief medical officer, job that he wants as fast as possible. Jonathan Van-Tam, addressed that point directly earlier on today about transmission in hospitality settings. Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Con): In Delyn, which would Clearly,we need to reduce the overall budget of transmission likely fall into tier 2 on the new scale, we have draconian that is going on in the country, and that is one sector travel bans imposed by the Welsh Government, which mean that we can address. I am interested in what she says that people can go shopping 20 miles in one direction about Greater Manchester; my information is slightly but cannot go half a mile in the other to visit family. different. What I would hope is that we can work That movement restriction makes a massive difference together to bring down the rates in Greater Manchester, to business success, but Treasury support will not apply which at present are certainly worrying. because businesses are not being mandated to close. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the virus does not (Aylesbury) (Con): Many businesses in respect county boundaries and join me and my north Aylesbury are affected by the 10 pm curfew, despite the Wales colleagues in calling on the Labour Government low infection rates locally, so can my right hon. Friend in Wales to publish their information and justify their confirm that there is and there always will be a scientific decisions, as he does on a regular basis? basis for restrictions on economic activity? The Prime Minister: Yes, I can. The Prime Minister: I certainly echo what my hon. Friend says about the Government in Wales. Businesses (Gateshead) (Lab) [V]: Would the Prime of the kind that he refers to in his constituency obviously Minister confirm that the north-east is at tier 2? Can I have access to the job support system when they are recommend to the Prime Minister a document published forced to trade in a way that is not normal for them. this weekend by the Association of Directors of Public Health called “Protecting our communities”? This Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): When my hon. document suggests a comprehensive national strategy Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North that embraces locally led responses. However, for these (Catherine McKinnell) asked the Prime Minister about local interventions to work, directors of public health in partners attending labour, he said that if she had any local authorities in the north-east need the much heralded, problematic examples, she should bring them to his but as yet not forthcoming, resources, so that with their attention. I have a constituent who so far in her pregnancy local leadership working together with the communities has lost two of her three triplets, one at eight weeks and they serve, we might have a real chance to turn back the one at 20 weeks. She was then told that she could not tide of this virus. But we need the money—real money, bring her partner with her to the 34-week scan. Obviously, not promissory notes from the bank of empty rhetoric. scans ought to be good news for parents, but sometimes 45 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 46 they are not. We had an intervention from the Mayor disincentivised to follow the rules. Will the Prime Minister and support from the campaign group Pregnant Then look again just at the minimum wage people to ensure Screwed, and her partner was then allowed to visit, but that the new scheme has a floor? this is another issue. It is not just about attending labour; the partner ought to be there for scans as well. The Prime Minister: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point. That is why we have extended the job support The Prime Minister: I am so sorry for the experience system. The universal credit system is also there to of the hon. Lady’sconstituent. She makes a very important provide a safety net and to help people, precisely because, point about partners being there for scans. I will look as their incomes may go down, so universal credit goes into the matter she raises. up. That is the point of the system.

Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con): I welcome the Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con): Every Government’s approach to using health, economic and weekend in my constituency, a large car boot sale takes behavioural evidence in reaching their decisions, but a place. I have no objection to that, but next weekend, just recent poll suggested that only some three quarters of a few hundred yards down the road, Cheltenham races people expected to isolate intended to do so, and that as will be run without any paying spectators. Surely that is few as one in five had actually done so. Does my right an anomaly. Will the Prime Minister address that by hon. Friend agree that the key to tackling this pandemic allowing sporting venues to open to welcome paying is shared responsibility, not just between national and spectators, as long as they do so in a safe way? local government but with every single citizen? The Prime Minister: We are generally well disposed The Prime Minister: Indeed. Everybody who is told towards any business or organisation that allows its to self-isolate because they have been in contact with activities to take place in a covid-secure way. We will somebody with an index case of covid should remember proceed with our plans to do that for sporting events as that there is £500 to help them but also a £10,000 fine if soon as we possibly can. As for the car boot sale in my they fail to do so and therefore risk the virus spreading hon. Friend’s constituency, I urge everybody attending further. it to observe social distancing and stop the spread of the virus.

Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab): Liverpool Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) will be placed on the highest restrictions from Wednesday, (Lab) [V]: This morning, Professor Van-Tam said that with the closure of pubs, clubs, gyms and other leisure the resurgence in covid-19 cases among young people is facilities for at least four weeks. Will the Government being spread to the older generation. We know that the stand by their commitment to safeguard businesses by World Health Organisation’s mantra is, “Test, test, test”, properly compensating them and allowing them to survive but the test, trace and isolate system is not good enough. the latest restrictions imposed on Liverpool city region, Does the Prime Minister think that universities such as and provide us with the necessary financial support to Hull University in my constituency should set up their protect jobs and livelihoods? own testing facility for all their students, including asymptomatic students, as the University of East Anglia The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. That is why my right and Cambridge University are now doing? hon. Friend the Chancellor announced grants of up to £3,000 and why we have the job support system, which The Prime Minister: I believe the hon. Lady has is designed to help people in exactly the circumstances mentioned the issue of Hull University’s testing facilities the hon. Lady describes. before—perhaps it was another hon. Member—but I will certainly find out what the obstacle is to Hull’s (Rugby) (Con): I welcome the introduction testing facilities. There is no reason in principle why that of three tiers, which will give more certainty to everyone, university should not be testing in the way that the but while hospitality outlets in Rugby have worked hard other universities she mentioned are doing. to make their premises safe and have been supported by police, community wardens, business improvement district Mr (Bournemouth East) (Con): I rangers and street pastors, the 10 o’clock curfew has led repeat Bournemouth University’s offer to establish a to many leaving the pub to go to a shop to stock up with testing lab on its campus to help the local community. I booze, often with their friends, to drink at home. If it is welcome today’s statement, but the Prime Minister is necessary to keep 10 o’clock closing, should off-licences well aware of the importance of the hospitality industry be treated equally? to Bournemouth’s economy. I would be very grateful if he reviewed the 10 pm curfew as urgently as possible. The Prime Minister: I understand my hon. Friend’s point about people’s behaviour after leaving the pub. The Prime Minister: I understand my right hon. Friend’s That is why it is vital that everybody shows common point and I have every sympathy with Bournemouth’s sense and follows the guidance. hospitality industry, which I have enjoyed many times in the past, as I am sure we all have. Alas, we have to make LloydRussell-Moyle(Brighton,Kemptown)(Lab/Co-op): restrictions in the overall volume of transmission that is You and I, Mr Speaker, and the Prime Minister could taking place in our society. That is an obvious place to probably live on a one-third pay cut on our pay.Someone make a difference, and that is what we are doing. on the minimum wage, with a one-third pay cut on their pay, cannot live and pay the bills and will therefore be Mr Speaker: Welcome back, Jim Shannon. 47 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 48

Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Thank you, package of financial support in all tier 2 and tier 3 areas Mr Speaker. I am glad to be back. My wife and I are that pays everyone affected 80% of their wages. Can the still speaking after two weeks. If there had been a third Prime Minister commit to providing that support? week, there would have been a problem, but we are still together. The Prime Minister: I am proud of this Government’s record in raising the living wage by record sums. The Could the Prime Minister provide an outline of his hon. Lady will have heard what I said earlier about discussions with the First Minister, with special reference continuing with our support for universal credit— to the proposed circuit breakers that some chief medical continuing with the uplift in universal credit—for the officers are calling for, acknowledging that they would whole of this financial year. be successful only if they were UK-wide and centrally funded, as there is simply no funding available at present Dean Russell (Watford) (Con): While I was volunteering to allow businesses to continue to operate if they are just this morning at Watford General Hospital, where it forced to close yet again? This is particularly relevant to happens to be Think Clean week, the wonderful specialist areas such as mine in Strangford, which has the second- infection prevention and control support worker lowest number of cases in the whole of Northern Ireland. Cheryl Atkins used an ultraviolet system to show me how easily this or any virus can spread through poor The Prime Minister: One of the problems is that hand hygiene. Does the Prime Minister agree that it is places like Strabane in Northern Ireland have about incumbent on us all to fight covid by washing our hands 820 cases per 100,000, which is about the highest in the regularly and by following the incredibly simple yet UK, perhaps in the whole of Europe. That is why we tremendously powerful guidance of “Hands, face, space”? have to take the actions we are taking. I hear what the hon. Gentleman says about the circuit breaker. We want The Prime Minister: I agree totally with my hon. to give these measures time to work, if we possibly can. Friend, and it should be Think Clean week in Watford and across the whole of the UK. Mrs (Meon Valley) (Con): May I thank the Prime Minister for his welcome statement? I Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab): Today the have been visiting pubs and event businesses in Meon Government have placed Merseyside into tier 3 lockdown. Valley, where the covid transmission rate is below the For 10 long years, my city has been under the boot of national average.What reassurance can he give to businesses, Tory austerity, and now the Prime Minister intends to which are looking to plan ahead, that restrictions will shut down our economy while keeping furlough support be lifted flexibly where transmissions revert to a low at 67%, which has all the hallmarks of once again level? placing our city into a state of managed decline. Will he listen to our metro Mayor, our city Mayor and local The Prime Minister: I can give my hon. Friend every MPs and stump up the cash for a furlough scheme possible assurance that as soon as transmission is obviously based on 80% of wages, without the reliance, as he down—as soon as we have got the R down below 1— keeps saying, on universal credit? If it was the right things will change very much indeed. thing to do in March, it is the right thing to do now.

Andy Carter (Warrington South) (Con): I thank the The Prime Minister: I am grateful to Steve Rotheram Prime Minister and his team for engaging across the and other leaders in that area for the support they are weekend, and for the decision to place Warrington into giving for the measures we are putting in place. I think tier 2, rather than including it in the wider Merseyside that they understand the real dilemma that we face, region. One of the many questions I am asked by which is that we must get the virus down but we must businesses, particularly in the hospitality sector, is: what also keep the economy going and support jobs. That is are the criteria for moving Warrington back into tier 1 what we are doing. and reducing the level of restrictions locally? (Mansfield) (Con): It is really frustrating that Mansfield is heading into new restrictions when The Prime Minister: That is a very good question. A our rate of transmission is 10% of that of Nottingham lot of people ask about the precise criteria. We look at a city—despite being further away from it than Derby, for number of different measures. We look at the hospital example,which is not being similarly restricted. I understand admissions and the rate of transmissions in the community. the need to get ahead of the virus, but I argued strongly A number of things are taken into account, but one against these arbitrary-seeming boundaries. Can my thing that was clearly and particularly influential in the right hon. Friend assure me that this will be regularly decision on Merseyside was the transmission, as has and properly reviewed, and that Mansfield will not be just been mentioned, into the over-60s group, which is automatically tied to the city’s fate when it comes to obviously very concerning. As I just said to my hon. removing these restrictions in the future? Friend the Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond), when the R comes down, that changes it. The Prime Minister: I understand completely the frustrations of the people of Mansfield. I am afraid Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab) [V]: that further restrictions are necessary across the country Under the initial furlough scheme, staff had 80% of in the way that we have outlined today, but of course their salary paid if there was no work for them, but the they will be reviewed very regularly. Chancellor’s new scheme pays only two thirds of wages, which for minimum wage staff can be as little as £5.80 an Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab): The Halton hour. And only those businesses forced to close will get part of my constituency in Merseyside has been placed support, even though supply chain businesses will also in tier 3. The Cheshire West and Chester part is in tier 2. be hit. If we are going to beat this virus, we need a full In the Cheshire West and Chester part, we have the 49 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 50 nonsense of the 10 pm curfew, which does not follow The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. I thank the people the evidence and needs to be reviewed and changed. In of Bury and I am, of course, sorry for all the privations the Halton part, we have people who are now required that are being endured, not just in Bury but across the to live on 67% of the minimum wage, which is nowhere country. The best way to get the businesses that my hon. near sufficient. Look at this again, Prime Minister. Step Friend talks about back on their feet is for us all, as I up and look at this again. say, to follow the guidance, get the R down and take the country forward. The Prime Minister: I am afraid I must reject what Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab) [V]: I have listened the hon. Gentleman says in the sense that I think he is to the Prime Minister this afternoon, but the reality being inconsistent or trying to have it both ways. Most remains that if the Government do not quickly set out people, I think, in this country want to see restrictions much more comprehensive support for places such as that get the virus down, and that is what we are bringing Bradford, where local restrictions are having a disastrous forward and supporting. I think most people in this impact on our businesses and communities, many jobs country also want to see support for people who are put will be lost in our local economy, and businesses will go out of business through no fault of their own, and that to the wall. Will the Prime Minister guarantee that is what we are also providing. every area gets the support that it needs, and will he reopen the discretionary grant scheme so that local (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con): authorities such as Bradford can respond to the needs Carshalton and Wallington residents have worked hard of their businesses and communities to protect jobs and to keep the virus rate down to one of the lowest levels in livelihoods? London; however, with varying degrees of guidance and restrictions across the country,sometimes the guidance The Prime Minister: I can tell the hon. Gentleman can be difficult to follow and people need clarification. that we are supporting local authorities such as Bradford Can my right hon. Friend assure me that this new covid not just with the £3.6 billion we have already given, but three-level alert system will make it easier for people to as I said earlier this afternoon with another £1 billion to understand and ultimately follow the guidance? come. (Lichfield) (Con) [V]: I thank the The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed; that is why we have Prime Minister for his very clear statement, but compliance gone for the three-tier approach and anybody in any will be a major issue even if people understand the rules. doubt whatever, whether or not in Carshalton—I thank Part of the problem is that people think the situation my hon. Friend’s constituents for the effort that they will just go on and on for the next decade. Although I have made—should get on to the gov.uk website and see understand the Prime Minister’s reluctance to talk too what they need to do to comply. much about a vaccine—he made that clear in an earlier answer—can he help people in Lichfield and the rest of Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab): Many of my the country by saying that, with new drugs and new vaccines, constituents in Luton South work for Luton airport, its once we have got over this winter, that will be it? supply chain and linked businesses, such as Theobolds Coaches, which I visited last Friday. While businesses in The Prime Minister: I have very little doubt that, once tier 3 that are forced to close will be offered some we have got through to spring, we will be in a completely Government support, what support will be offered to different environment. Indeed, I have high hopes that those businesses in tourism and airports that are not in things will change very fast as a result, as my hon. Friend tier 3 but are so distinctly affected by the addition of says, of new technologies that are coming on stream. tier 3, and are struggling due to a lack of consumer But for the time being we have to concentrate on the confidence? tools we have in hand, and those tools are the packages of restrictions that we have set out and the basic guidance The Prime Minister: The hon. Lady makes a very about restricting contact person to person and restricting important point, but for some of the businesses that she the spread of the virus. That is what we have to do for talks about—aviation, for instance—we have packages. the time being. Whether through Time to Pay or through the Birch Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP) [V]: The reality process, we are trying to look after the aviation sector, for many in the hospitality sector is not a close-down but for all businesses that are unable to trade as normal for a week or two, but a shutdown for the rest of the the joint support system is there. winter season. These businesses are vibrant and can provide vital jobs when the spring comes around, as James Daly (Bury North) (Con): Pubs, restaurants they have done in years past, but only if they can and cafés in Bury, Ramsbottom and Tottington have survive this closure. When Germany can furlough through invested heavily to create covid-secure environments. until next year, why won’t the United Kingdom? That is reflected in the fact that, on the last figures I have, in the last 14 days there were no recorded covid The Prime Minister: The Chancellor has set out the outbreaks in such places and there is no evidence at all job support scheme, which, as he said, goes through till of significant transmission of covid in these important next year. community assets. Will the Prime Minister therefore (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I join me in thanking local business owners for their am sure my right hon. Friend would agree that if we are efforts in creating such secure environments, and agree to get broad compliance with these very tough lockdown that we should do everything possible to ask local measures, ordinary, sensible working people need to residents, within reason and abiding by Government understand that they are fair and logical. Will my right guidance, to support these important hospitality venues hon. Friend therefore agree to publish precise details of and community assets? not just what the rules are but why each one is necessary? 51 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 52

The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. furlough so far announced by the Chancellor, because they will not be forced to close by law—they will just Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): Key to stopping lose most of their business. Will the Prime Minister the spread of the virus is giving people the financial undertake to look again, with his Chancellor, at the support they need to self-isolate when they need to, but business support scheme, with the aim of ensuring that millions of working people still do not have that. The jobs and businesses can survive this tough next six months Government’s test and trace support payment scheme is and will be able to grow bigger again in better times, totally inadequate; only a small proportion of workers rather than have to close now, with all the misery, qualify, and even for those who do, at £500 for up to two unemployment and bankruptcy that is going to result? weeks, the scheme pays less than the minimum wage. Will the Prime Minister finally do as I urged him at The Prime Minister: Of course, in addition to the Prime Minister’s questions back in March and raise billions that we have invested—including £19 billion in statutory sick pay to the level of the real living wage, coronavirus business interruption loans to small and extend it to cover all workers and give people the medium-sized enterprises and £38 billion in bounce financial security they need to self-isolate? back loans, all of which are still available—we are making cash grants of up to £3,000 for businesses, such The Prime Minister: I just remind the hon. Lady that, as those in Merseyside, that have been forced to close as in addition to the £500, there is also the support of a result of local lockdowns. universal credit. As to those who are thinking of not isolating still, alas I must tell the House that there is a (Winchester) (Con): I very much welcome fine of £10,000. the Prime Minister’s expressing the view that a second national lockdown is not the right course for our country. (Sevenoaks) (Con): I was glad to hear the As well as kicking the can down the road, it would be Prime Minister refer in his opening statement to the totally unfair on areas, such as the one that I represent, need to continue elective operations. My own trust has that for all manner of reasons—and there are many—have pledged to continue them through winter for as long as a completely different rate. Given the fact that we possible. Will the Prime Minister confirm that the decision obviously have a north-south split in our country right will continue to be locally led and that he will do all he now—there is no judgment or blame in that, and there can to prevent a backlog? should not be; it is just a stark fact—what is the Prime Minister’s opinion on that and what information has he The Prime Minister: Yes, and it is exactly in order to been given by the experts as to why? prevent a further backlog that we need to prevent an uncontained outbreak of coronavirus now. That is why The Prime Minister: The reality is that the disease is we are putting in place the measures we are. rising across the country.We have seen in other European countries and around the world that it sometimes rises Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) fastest in one place rather than another. The sensible (Lab): The Prime Minister should have no problem with thing is to tackle it in a local way, which is what we are giving me a positive answer to my question. For lockdown doing. restrictions to work, public support is essential. For people to give up what they enjoy most, they need to Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Between understand why. Will the Prime Minister commit to 27 September and 3 October, 89% of positive cases were sharing with the public the evidence on why specific reached by local authority public health tracing in types of businesses have been forced to close? Wales, but for the equivalent period just 74% were reached by the outsourced, centralised system in England. The Prime Minister: I repeat the undertaking that I That is not ideology; that is just better virus-control just gave. policy to save lives. Test and trace needs trust to be effective. Does the Prime Minister now acknowledge (Rutland and Melton) (Con) [V]: I that outsourcing the system was an error? thank the Prime Minister for his support for my campaign to ensure that all women can have partners with them The Prime Minister: No—no more than getting a for all scans and all their labour, but will he confirm vaccine or test device from the private sector is an error. whether pregnant women throughout the country who We need a mixture of public and private and of national are in their third trimester should be shielding, given and local, and that is what we are doing. their much higher vulnerability to covid, and that employers should recognise that and support them to work from Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): My Colne home or in roles that are not on the frontline? Valley constituency, as part of the Kirklees Council area, which is part of West Yorkshire, is going into tier 2 The Prime Minister: Pregnant women who are in any of the covid restrictions. Will the Prime Minister please doubt about what they should do to shield from covid tell me and my constituents whether we are now tied to should consult the gov.uk website for advice, because the fortunes of West Yorkshire as a whole? Or can there is plenty there for pregnancies. smaller, more localised geographical areas move out of the tiers as people make local sacrifices? Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I understand and agree with the need to prevent households The Prime Minister: I appreciate the sacrifice that my from mixing to cut covid rates on Merseyside, but this hon. Friend’s constituents have been making, and I am tough local lockdown is going to destroy many businesses sorry for the privations that are being visited on people and jobs that will not be eligible for the limited local across the country. To see exactly where you are and 53 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 54 what you need to do, get on the website. As soon as we the Opposition has at least sometimes backed the can take areas out of the measures that they are in, of restrictions. I hope very much that we will continue to course we will do so. work in that collaborative way.

Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]: Without (Rushcliffe) (Con) [V]: The measures evidence, people will not have confidence in the that my right hon. Friend has announced today are Government, so what is the scientific evidence for the sadly necessary,given the sharp rise in cases, but hospitality restrictions that the Prime Minister has announced, businesses in Rushcliffe, such as the fantastic community- which will affect 1.5 million people in the Liverpool city owned Air Hostess pub in Tollerton, which I visited last region? People need hope that these measures will be week, are understandably worried about the impact short-lived, so what is the exit strategy and specifically that stopping households mixing will have on their what will the infection rate have to fall to for the business just as they have got back on their feet. Can my restrictions in the Liverpool city region to be lifted? right hon. Friend confirm how often the tier 2 measures will be reviewed, and can he assure me that they will be The Prime Minister: Clearly, the most important kept in place in Rushcliffe only until infection levels thing is that the R should get below 1. have decreased in the borough? Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): Seasonal flu deaths for the past two years have been The Prime Minister: I understand my hon. Friend’s relatively light, which means that, in the normal course anxieties and the anxieties of the people of Rushcliffe, of things, we would expect a hard winter, noting that in and we will keep all restrictions under constant review 2014-15 there were 26,000 deaths and in 2017-18 there in order to remove them as soon as we possibly can. were 28,000. I appreciate that the Government are doing everything they can to increase the number of David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP): It is quite clear, vaccinations, but given that we can vaccinate against as we move into further restrictions and with the virus that disease, unlike covid, will the Prime Minister redouble increasing, that we are not going to go back to live his efforts to ensure that those who are vulnerable this music anytime soon. My Belvidere constituent, Craig winter get the flu vaccine that they need? Johnston, came to see me at my surgery on Friday, and he is concerned by the lack of support for people in the The Prime Minister: My right hon. Friend is entirely live music industry. What is the Prime Minister going to right. That is why I encourage everybody who is vulnerable do for Craig? to get a flu vaccine now, and that is why we have 30 million available. The Prime Minister: The hon. Gentleman is right to raise that issue, and that is why we put £1.57 billion into Emma Hardy (Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle) supporting the arts. That funding also covers freelancers (Lab): Today we had a Yorkshire briefing with 15 minutes’ and people who are involved in the live music industry, notice that failed to invite all Yorkshire MPs, and but the best thing for them is to get those types of neither have all Yorkshire council leaders been contacted. events back up and running as fast as possible. We are left waiting for the Prime Minister’s website update to find out which tier we are in. This shambles is James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con): I would like creating confusion and fear, and we need clarity, so will to tackle a misnomer, if I may. Is it not because this decisions about Hull and East Riding be made together Conservative Government respect personal freedoms as part of Yorkshire, made separately, or made as part that these difficult but pragmatic measures are necessary of Yorkshire and the Humber? How much notice of the in the short term to keep people safe? changes will we get? The Prime Minister: It is indeed, because people The Prime Minister: I can tell the hon. Lady that the should have the freedom from fear, the freedom from Government at all levels have been in constant contact seeing their jobs destroyed in the long term and the with authorities in Yorkshire for the past few days, and I freedom to go about their lives in the normal way. The am very grateful for their co-operation. only way to restore those freedoms to this country is for (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): I recognise us all to follow the guidance, get through this thing in the Prime Minister’s focus in his statement on introducing the way that we are doing and get back to normal as fast a much more simplified restriction regime that offers as possible. greater clarity and strikes a balance between the risk of spreading the virus and economic activity. Can he tell Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab) us what discussions have taken place with the devolved [V]: Test, track and isolate must be made to work; Administrations on taking a uniform approach across without it, nothing can work. Can the Prime Minister the United Kingdom, and is he able to update us on tell me where transmission is occurring in Newcastle whether the Leader of the Opposition has supported now, rather than guessing based on US data? If he such activity in engaging with the Welsh Government to cannot, after six months and hundreds of millions of encourage them to follow suit, because this will have a pounds spent on private contractors to track transmission, major effect on Treasury support and the simplicity that will he accept that fundamentally what is not working businesses in my constituency can draw on? in this pandemic is the Prime Minister, and the businesses and people of Newcastle are paying the price? The Prime Minister: It is certainly the case that there is a wide measure of co-operation across all the devolved The Prime Minister: It is thanks to the great expansion Administrations with the Government, and it is also the of NHS Test and Trace that we know where the virus is case that, to the best of my knowledge, the Leader of being transmitted in this country and where the incidence 55 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 56

[The Prime Minister] track and trace system. He told the House earlier that he aims by the end of this month to have half a million is rising, and contrary to what the hon. Lady says, we tests completed daily. Can he make it clear that track know it with increasing and granular detail. That enables and trace works only if those tests deliver results very us to take the local measures that we are taking, and I quickly? When will we get to the point when those half take it from what she said that she supports those a million tests will be reported back in a reasonable time measures in Newcastle and the north-east. and in most cases within a day?

Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): Does my The Prime Minister: We are turning around tests as right hon. Friend agree that we need a flexible local fast as we possibly can and laying on new labs and new approach to tackle outbreaks? Does he also agree that, test sites, and I am very confident that we will get up to when looking at which tier an area moves into, the half a million tests a day by the end of the month. I am distinct nature of outbreaks at universities should be not going to make a commitment now about turnaround taken into account for authorities containing a university, times, but the hon. Gentleman’s point is well made. such as Newcastle-under-Lyme, rather than relying on a Andrew Griffith (Arundel and South Downs) (Con): single, catch-all case rate? During a pandemic, life and love continue. I know that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister has strained The Prime Minister: Indeed, but as I said earlier, I am every sinew to protect people’s lives and liberty, but will reluctant to make a hard-and-fast distinction between he undertake to review, over time, the guidelines that students and other members of the population. They say that a venue that could seat 200 as a restaurant are heir to the same afflictions as the rest of us. By and could seat only 15 if it happens to be for a marriage large, students are doing a great job in following the ceremony? guidance, and we encourage all of them to do that. The Prime Minister: My hon. Friend, like many Members Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): across the House, draws attention to what appears to be Whatever new restrictions are introduced in each of the an anomaly in the regulations and in the guidelines. three tiers that the Prime Minister has announced, it is There are many such issues that we are doing our best essential that we do everything we can to keep children to iron out, but when you are dealing with a pandemic at school and keep children learning. With that in mind, such as this and when your only tool of influencing will he ensure that, where a positive case is identified in human behaviour is guidance, I am afraid that such a school, the smallest possible number of children are anomalies inevitably arise. We will do whatever we can sent home, rather than a whole year group, as is sometimes to iron out any inconsistencies there may be. the case at present? Will he do that to ensure that children’s long-term opportunities are not damaged, Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab): In areas that inequality does not rise further and that children’s such as Bradford, which have had local restrictions education is not hurt even more by the necessary fight since July, people living in care homes have gone months against this virus? without face-to-face contact with loved ones. For people with dementia, a lack of social contact can cause a The Prime Minister: The right hon. Gentleman raises marked decline. Will the Prime Minister commit to an exceptionally important point. A great deal of work doing everything he can not only to keep care home is being done on the right size of the bubble, as it were, residents safe, but to work to reintroduce visits, for and how many infections should be decisive in taking example, by testing loved ones on a regular basis? Can action in schools. I am very happy to say that—at the he confirm whether there will be changes to the shielding moment, at least—we have almost 90% of kids in guidance in tier 2 or tier 3 areas? school and 99.9% of schools open. That is a great The Prime Minister: On the guidance for tier 2 and achievement by teachers, parents and pupils alike. tier 3 areas, the best thing residents of those areas can do is get on the website and check exactly what is (Chipping Barnet) (Con): The furlough needed. But the hon. Member makes a very important and self-employment schemes have provided crucial point about care homes. I think the whole House feels help to many millions of people, but unfortunately, for those who are in care homes, perhaps nearing the around 3 million fell outside the scope of those schemes. end of their lives and worried that they may not see May I appeal for help for those groups, such as the their loved ones. It is a truly terrible situation. No one newly employed, the newly self-employed, directors of would want to do that lightly. We try to make exceptions limited companies and freelancers on short-term contracts? for very difficult circumstances, but we must reduce the Some of them are suffering real hardship. incidence in care homes, or we must keep it as low as we have got it. We saw what happened earlier this year and The Prime Minister: Indeed, and I have mentioned we really do not want to see a repeat of that. the £13.5 billion that we have already given to the self-employed. My right hon. Friend understands the Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con): There has difficulties of the cut-off date, which my right hon. Friend been really positive engagement between No. 10, the the Chancellor has illustrated. It is to help people across Government and local authorities in the north of England the country that we have increased universal credit, for over this weekend. I support calls for local authorities instance, which will continue for this whole financial year. to do more on track and trace and on the issue of care home visitor access. Will the Prime Minister keep Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) [V]: The Prime Minister encouraging his teams to look at creative solutions knows that the control mechanisms introduced in Greater between local authorities and Government, and how we Manchester can work only if we have an efficient test, allow loved ones to visit their sick and elderly relatives? 57 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 Covid-19 Update 58

The Prime Minister: Yes, indeed. Creative solutions pesky little things, but they are absolutely vital in assessing are in order on that important matter, and I thank my the impact of regulation on the community and particularly right hon. Friend for that. We really have to go the extra on small businesses. Can my right hon. Friend commit mile in such difficult cases and see what maximum to ask his Cabinet colleagues to prepare regulatory protection we can offer loved ones who need to visit impact assessments for the three-tier approach, to have their elderly relatives in very difficult circumstances. them scored by the Regulatory Policy Committee and laid before the House of Commons within the next Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab): Sunderland, 30 days? along with a lot of the north-east, went into local measures a few weeks ago and a number of asks were The Prime Minister: I share my hon. Friend’s general made of Government: some £14 million for test and hostility to unnecessary regulation of any kind and, trace; and some £24 million for business support. Almost believe me, it hurts to do a lot of the things that we have four weeks later, there was been no response one way or had to do over the last few months, but I see no reason the other. Could the Prime Minister commit to look at all why, without being too bureaucratic about it, we into what the logjam is and get a response quickly to should not conduct an assessment of the implications our local authorities because they need to know what is of these measures as well. happening? The Prime Minister: Absolutely I will. The hon. Member Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) [V]: Last week, will have heard what I said earlier about the support for prompted by data and scientific advice, the Scottish local authorities, but I will make sure we look particularly Government acted to introduce new restrictions to halt into what is happening in Sunderland and get her an the spread of the virus. The measures, which were answer. criticised at the time by Scottish Conservative politicians, have been largely followed by the Prime Minister this Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con): As Conservatives, afternoon. It is vital that businesses and individuals get we often speak of levelling up. However, now is the time the financial support that they need through this crisis. to level with the British people. There is no silver bullet. In that case, why will the Prime Minister not match the All measures to stop the spread of covid have painful public health powers that the devolved Governments effects on our economy, social lives and mental wellbeing. already have with the financial powers which would Voices on the Opposition Benches believe that British allow them to do whatever it takes, whenever it is people are incapable of understanding complex issues necessary, to support businesses and individuals, instead such as . The Conservative party is the champion of always having to hope that eventually his Government of individuals’ rights to make autonomous decisions will catch up? without state interference. Will the Prime Minister double down on our party’s historic commitment to invest The Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman knows, it greater trust in the individual to decide what is best for is one of the features of this crisis that the UK Treasury themselves? has been able to step up to the plate and support people The Prime Minister: Indeed, and I hope that the throughout the United Kingdom. That is going to be individual will also recognise that the risk that we our approach throughout and I am grateful also for the carry—he or she carries—is not just to ourselves, but to close harmony in our approach to which he alluded the whole of the community because, in the end, we are earlier. all potential vectors of this disease and we may bring it inadvertently to someone who is more vulnerable than Mr (Hazel Grove) (Con): I fear that ourselves. That is the risk. That is why we are bringing talk of closing hospitality venues such as pubs, restaurants in these measures, why we have had the package of and cafés misses the point, given the very limited measures that we have had throughout this pandemic, transmission of covid within them. For example, this and why we now need to intensify them in some local has averaged at just 2.4% in Stockport over the last four areas now. months. Is not the danger in closing them that people will meet in each other’s homes, where transmission is Tracy Brabin (Batley and Spen) (Lab/Co-op): Just to much higher, rather than in these covid-secure venues? follow up on the question from my fellow Kirklees MP, the hon. Member for Colne Valley (Jason McCartney), The Prime Minister: As my hon. Friend knows, in can the Prime Minister clarify: if the numbers are right level 2 areas and indeed, a fortiori, in level 3 areas, there and they are going in the right direction, it is possible are restrictions on household contact that are designed for local authorities, or areas within local authorities, to to bring down that transmission. You should not meet come out of these restrictions—if numbers allow and it other households indoors in either a domestic or a is safe—even if the wider region cannot? hospitality setting. The Prime Minister: Of course we keep all this under review but, as I have said several times throughout the Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD): The latest technical afternoon, you have to keep your geographical area fairly glitch in the Prime Minister’s so-called world-beating coherent. I know that that causes a great deal of frustration test and trace system, which has been dubbed a “data for hon. Members and I have been hearing itt for weeks enrichment” process, has meant that many positive and months, but that is the way that we have to do it. cases among students have automatically been attributed to their home address, instead of to their university Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): I address. That has affected about a quarter of new cases was down as No. 116 on the list today, so may I thank in Richmond upon Thames in my constituency, and it the Prime Minister for answering so many questions in has been replicated in Cambridgeshire, Cumbria, the Chamber today? Regulatory impact assessments are Hertfordshire, Essex and elsewhere. How can quick and 59 Covid-19 Update 12 OCTOBER 2020 60

[Munira Wilson] Business of the House effective local tracing take place if cases are being reported to the wrong place, and how might that affect 5.44 pm decisions about which tier areas are placed into? Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): We now have a business statement on which I will call only the shadow The Prime Minister: The hon. Member makes an Leader of the House and the SNP spokesman to ask important point but, with respect to her, we are aware questions. of that phenomenon—data showing where students, or anybody, are registered with their GP, rather than where The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob Rees- the transmission is taking place—so we obviously aim Mogg): With permission, Mr Deputy Speaker, I should off for that. like to make a short business statement. Further to the earlier statement by my right hon. Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con): The Health Secretary Friend the Prime Minister, tomorrow’s business will has confirmed that parts of Teesside, including my now be: constituency, will also enter tier 2 restrictions from Wednesday. I desperately wish that these restrictions Consideration of a business of the House motion after were not necessary, as they will understandably place a which the House will be asked to approve the following great strain on the mental health of my constituents, regulations: The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local who will now be limited in their interactions with friends, Covid-19 Alert Level) (Medium) (England) Regulations families and partners. Can my right hon. Friend assure 2020; The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local Covid-19 me that the people of Redcar and Cleveland, who put Alert Level) (High) (England) Regulations 2020; The their trust in the Conservative party for the first time in Health Protection (Coronavirus, Local Covid-19 Alert December, are at the forefront of his mind, and that we Level) (Very High) (England) Regulations 2020; The will lift those restrictions at the earliest opportunity? Health Protection (Coronavirus, Collection of Contact Details etc and Related Requirements) Regulations 2020 The Prime Minister: I share my hon. Friend’s views (S.I., 2020, No. 1005); The Health Protection (Coronavirus, entirely and I desperately wish that these measures were Restrictions) (Obligations of Hospitality Undertakings) not necessary. The better and more united way we can (England) Regulations 2020 (S.I., 2020, No. 1008); The enforce them, the faster we will be able to lift them, and Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (Obligations in Redcar, and across the country, we will be able to get of Undertakings) (England) (Amendment) Regulations on with our agenda of uniting and levelling up. By the 2020 (S.I., 2020, No. 1046); and The Health Protection way, we have not forgotten about that—we are continuing (Coronavirus,Restrictions) (No.2) (England) (Amendment) to do it, irrespective of this crisis, as I think the people (No. 5) Regulations 2020 (S.I., 2020, No. 1029). of Redcar would expect. At the conclusion of proceedings on these regulations, the House will proceed to remaining stages of the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I thank the Fisheries Bill [Lords]. The business for Wednesday and Prime Minister for his statement and for answering well Thursday remains unchanged from that previously over 100 questions in over two hours, and I am grateful announced. I shall make a further statement announcing to those who have participated. There will be many future business on Thursday. other MPs who would have loved to have got on the call list. 5.46 pm I suspend the House for three minutes. Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): I thank the Leader 5.41 pm of the House for coming to the House to make a Sitting suspended. statement. When will these regulations be published? The Leader of the House listed all of them. Will they be taken together, or separately by region? How long will the debate on the regulations be? Will it be a full day’s debate? There are constituents who are losing their jobs as we speak, and they will expect their MPs to scrutinise and debate the regulations fully. Will the subject matter include the package of economic support available for the communities affected and the evidence that has been used to place our constituencies in the different tiers? The Leader of the House will know that Members have been unable to take part in some of the debates on primary legislation for public health reasons. Could he confirm that we can return to virtual debates allowing all hon. Members to take part equally as these regulations are so important and they need to do their democratic duty on behalf of their constituents? The Secretary of State for Health said on Wednesday that there will be a new convention that wherever possible we will be holding votes before such regulations come into force. Could the Leader of the House confirm that 61 Business of the House12 OCTOBER 2020 Business of the House 62 if there are any future changes to the tiered system people given through their representatives. That has where constituencies are moved from one tier to another, been given in a remarkable way, and I am sure that that we can have a debate and a vote on that? will continue. It will certainly be shown in the respect by We will work with the Government if there is any Members of Her Majesty’s Government to this House. legislation that needs to be expedited. However, the The Prime Minister was on his feet for the best part of House first heard of the financial package on Friday two hours answering as many questions as he possibly when the Chancellor made a statement to the media at could, and this level of engagement is only right and the same time as the Prime Minister was talking to the proper. leaders in the north-east and the north-west, and some Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP): We welcome of our colleagues—hon. and right hon. Members—were the opportunities that will exist for scrutiny, and I refer not even invited to that call. Will the Chancellor come the Leader of the House to the amendment that we to the House regarding any future package, because tabled to the coronavirus extension motion, which detailed economic support goes hand in hand with lockdown some of the kinds of scrutiny that already take place in measures? We should not have to hear about this in a Holyrood. Perhaps there are lessons that can be learned “Dear colleague” letter when he is just across the road. about the more open and transparent way that the All our citizens behaved absolutely brilliantly during Scottish Government have been conducting themselves the first lockdown, and that resulted in a lifting of since the start of this process. restrictions over the summer. Will the Government Under the proceedings under the pandemic orders, repay that trust by ensuring that they treat our constituents’ the EVEL—English votes for English laws—Standing elected representatives in a democratic way by informing Orders have been suspended. Who knows how long that hon. and right hon. Members of any measures that are suspension might last for? I would still expect that we made in this House, and doing so expeditiously? will exercise our self-denying ordinance where these regulations relate directly to England and Wales and Mr Rees-Mogg: I hope that the orders will be laid fall within devolved competence, although, of course, even while I am speaking, but certainly the intention is we would be interested in any Barnett consequentials for them to be laid very shortly. A programme motion that come from expenditure. will be attached to that. It will not be a full day’s debate I want to back up the shadow Leader of the House because we will be moving on to the Fisheries Bill, but on the point about virtual participation and remote there will be some hours of debate available. voting. These regulations are going to make it more The right hon. Lady is right to point out that it was difficult for Members to travel, irrespective of historical unfortunate that the Chancellor’s package was leaked rights. Members might be in households where they and therefore an announcement needed to be made have to self-isolate, or they might not want to set that when the House was not sitting. This is most regrettable, example to their constituents, so I plead with the Leader as announcements should be made to the House first, of the House to consider, at the very least, virtual and that was the intention of the Chancellor and of Her voting and if at all possible, virtual participation in Majesty’s Government. substantive proceedings. With regard to remote activities,interrogative proceedings Mr Rees-Mogg: The devolved authorities and Her remain possible remotely, but it is worth remembering Majesty’s Government are working closely together, that attendance at this House is essential work and that and I think that is important. It is right that EVEL has all the restrictions still allow people to travel for their been suspended during the time of this pandemic, in the work, even out of a restricted area, so Members remain way that we are currently sitting, to ensure that things entitled, free and, indeed, under some element of duty are passed through this House without requiring the to attend this House if they are capable of doing so. The extra complication of the EVEL Standing Orders. I commitment is to have votes on matters that are of would say with regard to remote voting that the hon. national significance. Inevitably, that is not a precise Gentleman has 36 votes his back pocket, and I think he definition, but I hope that the Government and Members might have had 37 had it not been for a rather unfortunate of this House will work together to ensure that any resignation—least said, soonest mended. issues that are of national significance, and are widely deemed to be of national significance, will come to the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Thank you for House first. I think that is the right thing to do, and the business statement. As Members know, normally, the commitment that my right hon Friend Secretary the the call list or the ability to get on the call list for Health Secretary made in answer to a question from my tomorrow would have already closed. That would be hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) pretty useless for Members, seeing as they did not know in a recent statement made this absolutely clear. what the business for tomorrow was going to be, so the May I thank the right hon. Lady for the support that Speaker’s Office has announced that the call list will she has volunteered today and for her right praise of the remain open today until 9 pm in order for Members to behaviour of the people of the United Kingdom? We be able to get on the call list for tomorrow. are governed by consent and therefore regulations that Virtual participation in proceedings concluded (Order, are passed by this place need the consent of the British 4 June) 63 12 OCTOBER 2020 64

Point of Order Agriculture Bill Consideration of Lords amendments 5.54 pm Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): On a point Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I must draw of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. Is there any reason why the House’s attention to the fact that financial privilege you have just announced that Back Benchers were not is engaged by Lords amendments 3, 4 18 and 30. If any allowed to ask a question during the business statement? Lords amendment engaging financial privilege is agreed It was only announced today and it would have been a to, I will cause the customary entry waiving Commons perfect opportunity for Back Benchers to come in on financial privilege to be entered in the Journal. Having spec and hold the Leader of the House to account. given careful consideration to Lords amendment 18, There is no reason why that should not have happened. which would establish a Trade and Agriculture Commission, There could not have been a call list because it was only I am satisfied that it would impose a charge on the announced today. public revenue that is not authorised by the money Yousaid earlier that a very large number of Members resolution passed by this House on 3 February. In of Parliament could not get in for the Prime Minister, accordance with paragraph 3 of Standing Order No. 78, despite his best efforts, and I was one of them. I might the amendment is therefore deemed to be disagreed to have wanted to ask him why the old should not be and is not available for debate. allowed to self-isolate if they want and the young to Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): On work if they want, but I was not able to ask that a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. The ruling that question. Perhaps I could have asked it to the Leader of you have just made regarding amendment 18 will surprise, the House, but you decreed otherwise. When we have if not stun, many people outside, who had placed much these ad hoc business statements in the future, given hope in the Trade and Agriculture Commission. Could that we are talking about civil liberties and very important you provide the House with any further details of the matters tomorrow, we should be allowed to come into rationale, because on first reading it is not clear what the Chamber, as we used to, and hold the Leader of the the financial implications of this particular provision House to account. would be? What—if any—other remedies might be Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I fully appreciate available to Members of this House to pursue this the point that you are making, Sir Edward. Of course, matter further? you could have asked the Leader of the House for the Mr Deputy Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Member option of a debate on the question you just asked, not for his point of order. As he is an experienced Member ask him to answer it, but I am being pedantic. I fully of the House, he knows that when Mr Speaker and the understand Members’ frustrations, but the decision was Public Bill Office look at these amendments, they do so taken because of the business of the House that we have very thoroughly. Although they do not have to give a today and the fact that we asked the Prime Minister to reason why an amendment is allowed or not allowed, stand at the Dispatch Box and answer questions for the statement that I have just made is quite rare in the more than two hours, which allowed us to get in 28 years that I have been a Member—and I think 117 Members. That is why we are under time pressure Mr Speaker has done rather well, to be honest. today. I fully appreciate the frustration that you have enunciated. (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): Further The House is suspended for three minutes. to that point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. It is not really Mr Speaker I wish to challenge. I just want to say 5.55 pm that it was not beyond the wit of Ministers to table a Sitting suspended. money resolution so that we could have dealt with amendment 18. This has put Mr Speaker in a very AGRICULTURE BILL (PROGRAMME) (NO. 2) difficult position. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Mr Deputy Speaker: I am sure that I speak on behalf Order No. 83A(7)), of Mr Speaker when I say how grateful he is for the That the following provisions shall apply to the Agriculture hon. Gentleman’s point of order and the way in which Bill for the purpose of supplementing the Order of 3 February 2020 (Agriculture Bill (Programme)): he has made it. Those on the Treasury Bench have heard his point. Consideration of Lords Amendments (1) Proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at Clause 4 9.00 pm at this day’s sitting.

Subsequent stages MULTI-ANNUAL FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE PLANS (2) Any further Message from the Lords may be considered forthwith without any Question being put. 6.2 pm (3) The proceedings on any further Message from the Lords shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for one hour after their commencement.—(David Rutley.) Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Victoria Prentis): Question agreed to. I beg to move, That this House disagrees with Lords amendment 1. Mr Speaker: With this it will be convenient to discuss the following: Lords amendments 2 to 8. 65 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 66

Lords amendment 9, and Government motion to very much exist already. Environmental improvement disagree. plans will already definitely be taken into account when Lords amendment 10. determining the strategic priorities that sit within the Lords amendment 11, and Government motion to multi-annual financial assistance plans in clause 4. disagree. It is lovely to see the Under-Secretary of State for Lords amendment 12, and Government motion to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend disagree. the Member for Taunton Deane (Rebecca Pow), in her place. She and I work very closely together. Ours is a Lords amendments 13 to 15. very united Department, and we view farmers and Lords amendment 16, and Government motion to environmentalists as often very much one and the same. disagree. Our future farming policies will be a key mechanism for Lords amendment 17, and Government motion to delivering the goals set out in the 25-year environment disagree. plan, but we can take the steps we need to improve Lords amendment 18. biodiversity only if the majority of farmers are firmly Lords amendment 19 to 46. on side. On Lords amendment 9, I would like to reassure the Victoria Prentis: I should begin by declaring my House that work is already taking place in this sphere. interests; my family have farmed near for We have already commissioned an independent review many years. of the food sector,led by Henry Dimbleby, and his interim This Bill represents a decisive break with the common report was released in July.We take his recommendations agricultural policy, as we move to a system that will very seriously. We have made a firm commitment to deliver both for farmers and for the precious environment publish a food White Paper within six months of his for which they care. I was delighted to see the Bill pass final report, which is expected next spring. This could its Third Reading in the other place, led by my wonderful well lead to a report sooner than is actually proposed in colleague Lord Gardiner of Kimble. It has now enjoyed the amendment. over 100 hours of parliamentary debate in its current incarnation, and, of course, had already passed its Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): Does Committee stage in 2018. Rarely has a Bill been so the Minister realise why some of us would be a little bit scrutinised. Although there remain areas of disagreement, sceptical about her reassurances on timescales, given it is heartening to hear the loud support for British that the Environment Bill has gone missing for the last farming from all parties at both ends of this place. I will 200 days? Why should we believe her when she tells us speak to each amendment in turn. that this is going to come forward shortly? Why not just accept this amendment? It is going in the same direction Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister as she says she wants to go, so she should just accept it, for giving way; I spoke to her before we came into the and it would make it a lot easier. Chamber. Last week I had a Zoom meeting with Lakeland Victoria Prentis: I am currently on amendment 9. I Dairies, which is one of the major agrifood businesses wonder if the hon. Lady was talking about the previous in my constituency. The company is keen to understand amendment; I am not sure. Nevertheless, I am delighted the complexities of east-west and west-east movement, to say that enjoying at the moment I am what my as well as north-south movement—from Northern Ireland predecessor referred to as my loaves and fishes week: I to the Republic of Ireland—for its products, which are have agriculture today and fish tomorrow. I would say milk products in liquid form. It is really important to that Department for Environment, Food and Rural have clarity on this complex issue. I have asked the Affairs legislation is very much front and centre in the Secretary of State for a meeting, because he has had business of the House this week. My hon. Friend the various meetings with me in the past. I just want to Under-Secretary is looking forward very keenly to bringing ensure that we have a meeting with him so that we forward the Environment Bill, and I am sure that the understand the process before we move forward. hon. Lady will have further news on that shortly.

Victoria Prentis: It is always a pleasure to hear from Sir Edward Leigh: On the subject of loaves, can I the hon. Gentleman. I know that the Secretary of State bring a message from the county of Lincolnshire, which has met him about Lakeland Dairies in the past, and I produces 2 billion of them a year? It is the bread basket am sure he will be delighted to do so again. As the hon. of England. This is a general point, but I was talking to Gentleman pointed out, it is a very complex issue. farmers and I think they just want to be reassured on this point. They are the most efficient farmers in the Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): Will the country, and they want to be assured that when we do Minister give way? free trade deals, our competitors under these deals will be working under the same regulations as our farmers. Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con): That is all they want, and that was the whole point of Will the Minister give way? the Lord Curry amendment about a Trade and Agriculture Commission with teeth. If the Minister can just give Victoria Prentis: If I may, I will make a tiny bit of that commitment, they will be reassured. progress, otherwise we really will be here for another 100 hours. Victoria Prentis: My right hon. Friend will be very The purpose behind Lords amendment 1 is to pleased, when I come on to that section of my speech, demonstrate the connections between this Bill and the to hear the reassurances that I hope I will be able to Environment Bill. I am pleased to say that these connections give him. 67 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 68

[Victoria Prentis] Returning to the Bill, we already have powers in what was originally clause 17, which commits the Back to amendment 9, and I think the report we have Government to promised within six months of Henry Dimbleby’s report “lay before Parliament a report containing an analysis of statistical will in fact come sooner than is set out in this amendment. data relating to food security” The response to the pandemic has demonstrated again in the UK. We listened to the concerns raised regarding and again the resilience of our UK food supply chain, the frequency of the food security report and, through and I am really pleased with how well Government and Lords amendments 5 to 8, reduced the minimum frequency industry have worked together. I would like to thank of reporting from five years to three years. Of course, everyone in the food industry—from our farmers to we can still report more often than that, and in times of those in retail and everybody in between—for responding strain on food supply that might well be appropriate. so quickly and efficiently to some very challenging Turning to Lords amendment 11, I recognise the conditions. positive intentions behind the amendment, but I am It was a real privilege to chair the cross- afraid I take issue with the drafting. The Government ministerial taskforce, which tried to ensure that food are committed to reducing the risks from pesticide use. and other essential supplies reached the vulnerable. We Wehave already tightened the standards for authorisation worked with industry to smooth the way wherever and withdrawn many pesticides from the organophosphate possible, including relaxing competition laws and drivers’ and carbamate classes. Integrated pest management hours. We have also worked with retailers to massively will be a critical part of future farming policy. Under increase the number of online delivery slots. Weare all too our existing legislation, the use of pesticides is allowed aware that many find themselves in food poverty for the only where a scientific assessment shows that it will have first time. As the taskforce, we were able to secure no effect on human health, including that of vulnerable £16 million, which we gave to frontline charities that are groups. directly helping get food to those in need, and we allocated £63 million to local authorities so that they The amendment, although undoubtedly well intentioned, can provide direct support to people who cannot afford is far too broad. It extends to any pesticide and any food. building, and would include pesticides that are important for productivity but pose no danger whatsoever to Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con): The Select health. Even worse, it also extends to any open space Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs used for work, which on my reading would prohibit the recently did a covid report, and the £63 million and the use of pesticides in fields entirely. I encourage hon. £16 million were really important in getting food out to Members to read the amendment carefully before those in society who need it most. May I have an supporting it. assurance that if it is needed again, we will move very quickly to get it there? Unfortunately, after covid there Caroline Lucas: The Minister will know that Lords will be a higher number of unemployed and great amendment 11 is based on one that I tabled, which pressure on food and food security. the Lords supported. I think she misrepresents the Victoria Prentis: I met the Trussell Trust and the amendment. It is perfectly clear that it would be possible Children’s Society last week to discuss how effective for the Government to bring forward regulations to that local authority grant was. I know that my hon. specify exactly the minimum distances. It is no coincidence Friend, who has done so much work in this space, has that Lord Randall himself has said how important it is also taken evidence to that effect. I cannot give him the that this amendment is passed to protect human health. assurance that he seeks right now, but I assure him that That is what we need to do. The Government could go I will make sure that those comments are fed through away and design the regulations, but this is the overarching and, if the need is there, that that is seen as one of the amendment to achieve that. options available and a very direct way of getting money to those who are in food poverty. The Trussell Trust is Victoria Prentis: I am afraid I do disagree with the itself preparing a report on how effective that grant has hon. Lady’s reading of the amendment. My case would been. be that we already have regulation in place to protect Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): All the human health from risks, including those in the vulnerable indicators are that food poverty is on the rise, so I ask sectors of society, which I mentioned. the Minister, as I asked the Prime Minister and the Education Secretary: why will Ministers not extend the 6.15 pm food voucher holiday hunger scheme to the half-term Lords Amendments 12 and 16 relate to trade standards and Christmas holidays? and will, I am sure, be a major part of this afternoon’s Victoria Prentis: I know that the hon. Gentleman has debate. I know that there are genuine concerns across campaigned on this matter for some time. He has heard the House and in our constituencies about the effect of what the has to say about future trade deals on farmers and on the standards of that. The scheme that I am discussing is the £63 million the foods that we eat. I am truly grateful for the wise scheme, which of course did not go just to families counsel of my hon. Friend the Member for Tiverton with children, although they were heavily represented and Honiton (Neil Parish). I assure him, and Members among the recipients of that scheme. We will pass on across the House, that the Government are firmly on those comments and those of the Trussell Trust and, of the side of British farmers and high standards. Where course, the EFRA Committee when considering how the balance should be between protectionism and trade, we tackle food poverty directly over the course of this and between high welfare and price, has been discussed winter. We all know that this is going to be a difficult many times in this House over the past 200 years, and it time for many. is a debate that I for one have always been keen to have. 69 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 70

Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: Will the Minister give way? Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): In the letter that my hon. Friend sent to all MPs on 6 October last week, she Victoria Prentis: I will not just at the moment, but I wrote that accepting the amendments will later. “would make it very difficult to secure any new trade deals.” I am afraid to say that, despite the considerable That is the bit that makes people suspicious. I do not thought that has gone into the amendments, we have doubt for one second her sincerity. I have known her for not yet found a magic form of words that will address years and she is a Minister of the utmost integrity, and I all the concerns and avoid undesirable side effects. In do not doubt anybody in her Department either, but is asking the House to reject the amendments, I will set the view that she has expressed at the Dispatch Box out the set of solutions, both legislative and non-legislative, today shared in heart and mind across the whole of that I hope will allay the fears that Members have expressed. Government, including the Department for International In my view, this range of measures, and constant vigilance Trade? on the part of Government and, indeed, consumers, are of more use than warm words in primary legislation. Victoria Prentis: Yes, those in the Department for International Trade stood on the manifesto that my I will start by reiterating that, alongside my colleagues hon. Friend and I were also proud to stand on. We are on this side of the House, I stood on a clear manifesto absolutely committed to high standards. commitment that in all our trade negotiations we will not compromise on our high environmental protection, Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown animal welfare or food standards. As I have said many rose— times, our current import standards are enshrined in existing legislation. Victoria Prentis: I promised to give way to my hon. Friend, and I forgot. They include a ban on importing beef produced using artificial growth hormones and poultry that has Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: My hon. Friend has helpfully been washed with chlorine. The European Union set out the very high standards that any imports will be (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020 carries across those required to meet coming into this country. Therefore, is existing standards on environmental protections, animal there any reason why this House should not be given welfare, animal and plant health and food safety. Any proper opportunity to scrutinise any free trade agreements changes to that legislation would need to be brought before they are signed, so that we can ensure that those before Parliament. agreements do not enable produce to come into this It falls to our independent food regulators, the Food country that is lower than those standards? Standards Agency and Food Standards Scotland, to ensure that all food imports into the UK are safe and Victoria Prentis: If my hon. Friend can contain himself, meet the relevant UK product rules and regulations. I will get on very shortly to a long section of my speech The FSA’s risk analysis process is rigorous, completely that details how Parliament will be able to scrutinise independent of Government and based on robust scientific future trade agreements. It is important, and I think evidence, along with other legitimate factors such as that we do do that, but I will set that out very shortly. wider consumer interests and the impact on the environment, animal welfare and food security. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (Ind): Just to refer back to the letter that the Minister Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): I sent last week, the Government’s response to the Lords want to be very clear: the concerns that people have amendments is that they would create a vast set of about the Bill and the Government’s decision not to conditions that do not apply to current EU trade deals. accept the amendment are not about the quality of Will she explain that a bit further, please? food. We understand that the product is not a danger. What we are concerned about is the production and the Victoria Prentis: Yes, I will be getting on to that in a impact on the producer. If we undermine animal welfare minute, too. Members will see that Lords amendment 16 and environmental standards, we may well have quality has a large number of conditions that, were it to pass, food to eat but we will damage our farmers and the would apply to continuity—so, rollover agreements—and integrity of our farming industry in the process. to any new agreement that we signed. One of my concerns, just to give the hon. Gentleman an example, is that the amendment would require other countries to Victoria Prentis: The hon. Gentleman is partly right. abide by exactly the regulations that we have in this Many of the concerns expressed, perhaps more wildly, country. Those might not be appropriate because of in the tabloid press—possibly not by the farming sector—are climate, for example, or the way a country is physically. indeed about the safety of food. I seek to reassure Our hedgerow regulation, for example, would look fairly everybody that those regulations are in place, and there odd in parts of Africa, but that is just one example. is no danger to safety or to the existing standards that we enjoy, and have enjoyed for many years as members I will make a bit of progress. We have high standards of the EU. When we come on to the next argument, in this country, of which we are justly proud, and there which we could perhaps characterise as a more protectionist is no way the Government will reduce those standards. argument, we need to balance the competing factors of Our clear policy, in fact, is to increase them, particularly trade deals that we already have,continuity trade agreements in the area of animal welfare, and I hope to be telling and trade deals that we want to enter into in the future, the House a lot more about that next year. and work out how we scrutinise those trade deals to It is important that our future trade agreements ensure that our farmers are getting a fair deal. I will go uphold those high standards. We can ensure that with a on to set out some of the ways that we hope to do that. range of safeguards, parliamentary scrutiny being one 71 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 72

[Victoria Prentis] Anthony Mangnall (Totnes) (Con): I hope I am not jumping the gun, but will the Minister look to extend of them. My right hon. Friend the International Trade the purview of the Trade and Agriculture Commission Secretary has today confirmed in a written ministerial to longer than six months? It should be a permanent statement to the House that there will be a full scrutiny body that is established to scrutinise our trade deals. process for the Japan deal and all other agreements that we strike. When it is agreed in principle, a copy of the Victoria Prentis: I am afraid that the Trade and deal will be issued to the International Trade Committee. Agriculture Commission is not within my gift; it is a It can then report on that, and I know that it will matter for the Department for International Trade whether scrutinise the deal carefully. the work and life of that commission is extended. The Government are committed to transparency and Further to the point of order made earlier about our to aiding scrutiny. That includes publishing objectives inability to discuss Lords amendment 18 this evening, and initial economic assessments before the start of any there is no need for any amendment to the Bill in order trade talks, which has been done to date. We have also to set up or continue the Trade and Agriculture provided regular progress updates to Parliament. For Commission. It was done without any need for legislation, example, we recently provided updates on the conclusion and it will be perfectly possible and proper for Members of negotiation rounds with the US and Australia, and to talk to the Secretary of State for International Trade we are engaging closely with the International Trade if they wish the commission to continue. Committee and the International Agreements Sub- The commission was set up with a fixed term and a Committee of the European Union Committee in the tight scope, which was a deliberate decision, to avoid other place. That includes sharing future trade agreements duplication of the work of the agencies and other before they are laid in Parliament through the process groups that I have just set out. It was set up in order to set out in the Constitutional Reform and Governance feed directly into our trade negotiations with the US, Act 2010. Today, the Secretary of State set out how that Australia and New Zealand. We remain open to listening is happening for the Japan deal. to any concerns about the operation of the commission and will continue to co-operate with DIT to ensure that We will always endeavour to ensure the Committees it meets expectations. have at least 10 sitting days to read through the deals or potential deals on a confidential basis. We are also Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): My sharing a full impact assessment, which covers the hon. Friend is speaking laudably about the Trade and economic impacts along with the social, environmental Agriculture Commission but then somewhat passing and animal welfare aspects of any deal, and that impact the responsibility to her right hon. Friend the Secretary assessment has been independently scrutinised by the of State, who is not with us today. What assurances can Regulatory Policy Committee. she give us that her voice will count in those discussions Finally, at the end of negotiations, we are committed about the Trade and Agriculture Commission? That to ensuring that the final agreement text is laid in body is central to the Bill we are discussing, yet the Parliament for 21 sitting days under the CRaG procedure, Secretary of State is not here to answer questions. which will ensure that the House has sufficient time to scrutinise the detail of any deal. I know that there has Victoria Prentis: I must politely disagree. I do not been some debate in both Houses on the effectiveness of think that there needs to be any amendment to the Bill CRaG, but it is the established procedure under our in order to continue the great work that the Trade and constitution. Our overall approach to scrutiny goes Agriculture Commission is undertaking. It was set up beyond many comparable parliamentary democracies. without the benefit of legislation; it does not need that. I have just set out why it was set up in a time-limited Further important scrutiny is provided by a range of way, in order to produce a report that will be debated in expert groups that advise the Government on trade the House this term, which is useful, as it will feed into policy. They include the Department for International the negotiations. It was set up with that timescale in Trade’s agrifood trade advisory group, which was renewed mind. Whether we want to set it up for future trade in July and includes more than 30 representatives from the agreements is something to discuss another day, but I food industry—I nearly said “heavyweight”representatives, do not agree that it has anything at all to do with the but I would not want that to be misinterpreted. DEFRA Bill. also continues to run various supply chain advisory groups such as the arable group, the livestock group and Neil Parish: I accept that the Trade and Agriculture the food and drink panel. They provide expert advice as Commission is not my hon. Friend’s responsibility. we negotiate, which is fed directly in to those negotiating. However, on amendments 12 and 16, if the Government We also listened carefully to powerful points made by could come forward with a proposal to extend its life or Members of this House and the National Farmers Union, to set up a smaller commission to deal with individual which is why we established the Trade and Agriculture trade deals, they would see off any possible rebellions Commission in July. The commission is working hard. It tonight. has met six times and set up three working groups covering consumers, competitiveness and standards, 6.30 pm bringing more than 30 additional representatives to help with its work. Recently, the commission launched a Victoria Prentis: Oh dear. I remain very fond of my call for evidence to 200 relevant parties, which asked hon. Friend, who continues to tempt me, Madam Deputy several questions, including on how standards can best Speaker, down routes that we really do not need to go be upheld while securing the benefits of trade. Its report down in discussing this legislation—indeed, we are all will come before Parliament later this term to be debated. busily debating amendment 18 as if it were before us. 73 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 74

To return to what we are meant to be talking about, if We have existing regulation under retained EU law, amendments 12 and 16 remained in the Bill, they could which is watched carefully and controlled by the Food create a long list of new conditions that imports under Standards Agency. Parliament can scrutinise new trade trade agreements would have to meet. Such conditions deals, as indeed the Select Committee on International do not exist under any agreement that the UK or the Trade is about to do for the Japan deal. Other experts, EU have to date, and they could also apply to trade including those on the Trade and Agriculture Commission, already taking place, which we very much hope will be can advise us on trade policy. Last, but by no means the subject of roll-over deals. least, we have the buying power of the British consumer, We will drive a hard bargain for access to our market, who is increasingly committed to high standards of and existing import conditions will need to be respected. animal welfare. However, trading partners would be extremely unlikely We will carry out a serious examination of the role of to agree to all the potential new requirements in the labelling in promoting high standards and high welfare amendments. The amendments are also not totally clear across the UK market. We will start to consult on that on what we would be asking of our partners. For before the end of this year. That combination of measures example, what is relevant to protect the environment in will protect producers of high-welfare British food, the UK will surely not be what is relevant to other while allowing us to import when we wish. countries with different climates or conditions. From Turning to amendment 17 on emissions reduction rules on nitrates to rules on hedgerows, our standards targets— are sometimes bound to differ from those abroad. Given that uncertainty, I am concerned that the Steve Brine: Will the Minister give way? amendments could jeopardise the 19 currently unsigned agreements that we are seeking to roll over. Trade, of Victoria Prentis: I have turned, I fear. course, already takes place under those agreements, Amendment 17 is another well-intentioned amendment, with existing import requirements met. Unpicking those but it would add an unnecessary layer of complication. and demanding the numerous extra conditions in the The Secretary of State is already required to have amendments could upset the current deals if partners regard to the Government’s commitment to achieving refused and walked away. In the worst-case scenario, net zero under the Climate Change Act 2008. The that could affect whisky exports to Canada, worth Government have also introduced carbon budgets, which £96 million, potato exports to Egypt, worth £30 million, cap emissions over successive five-year periods. If we and milk powder exports to Algeria, worth £21 million. are to achieve the UK’snet zero target, emissions reductions will be needed in all sectors. Not setting sector-specific Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab): I think the hon. targets allows us to meet our climate change commitments Lady said a moment ago that the problem with the in the best and speediest way.Agriculture has an important amendments was that they would impose conditions role to play in reducing emissions, but we must recognise that the EU has not sought to apply to any existing that planting trees and restoring peatland will take a trade agreements, but is that actually the case? Is it not very long time—probably not my lifetime—to deliver the true that the free trade agreement between the EU and best results. Chile in 2003 explicitly included a reference to animal We will continue to work closely on that issue with welfare—the point made a moment ago—and that when the NFU and others, including the greenhouse gas action the EU negotiated a trade deal with the Mercosur plan partners. countries last year, it made the reduction of tariffs on egg products conditional for the first time on the countries Caroline Lucas: Given that emissions from agriculture concerned, namely Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and have not decreased—they have remained static for years— Uruguay, keeping their hens in line with EU animal there is every good reason to focus on the role of welfare standards? If the EU can do that, why are the agriculture in driving climate change. It is not just a Government resisting us doing that when we take back question of planting trees, which, as the Minister says, control? takes a long time. She could start by not burning the peatlands, which is leading to more and more climate Victoria Prentis: As the right hon. Gentleman knows change right now. That is the kind of immediate measure very well, the EU has been able to put welfare standards that could be in the Bill. of various kinds and levels in different trade agreements over the years. That is a perfectly proper thing to do, as Victoria Prentis: I am sorry if I did not explain myself long as it is done in compliance with international law. clearly enough. Of course we are committed to reducing The point I was trying to make—I apologise if I did not emissions from agriculture, which produces about 10% of make it sufficiently clear—is that it would be unwise, emissions, as the hon. Lady knows. It is important to particularly in the agreements we are seeking to roll work on that. I commend the NFU, which has set an over in very short form, to add a set of conditions that, ambitious target for doing just that. Many measures to my reading at least, are not entirely clear and that are will be set out in the Environment Bill, which will come broadly drafted. It would be difficult to agree with the before the House shortly. Of course, the Agriculture Bill partners with whom we already trade as part of these will be a key part of delivering net zero, as our future continuity agreements a whole new set of conditions farming schemes are a powerful vehicle for achieving and, indeed, a method of assessing those conditions in that goal. very short order. That might well put them off agreeing a deal with us. That is my concern. Richard Fuller: Perhaps the counter-argument to that In summary, the tools we have to ensure high standards of the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline are, as I have tried to set out, many and varied. They are Lucas) is that farming needs long-term stability and strong enough to protect standards, even under pressure. sense. Governments sometimes change, but this target 75 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 76

[Richard Fuller] to act quickly to ensure that there is no gap in the powers required to operate existing schemes and to will remain. How does my hon. Friend balance the provide financial assistance to farmers. requirement for the dexterity that she has described in the Environment Bill with the overarching target, which Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): could provide some stability as we achieve some of the Order. I am sure that colleagues will be aware that this goals that the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion has debate must finish at 9 o’clock and there are still two asked us to achieve? Front-Bench contributions to come. I will therefore set an immediate limit of four minutes on Back-Bench Victoria Prentis: That is exactly what I am trying to speeches, although I fear that may have to go down if do. I am seeking a balance between a laudable aim that we are to have any chance of getting everybody in. we are all signed up to and not setting sector-specific targets, for which amendment 17 provides. I do not Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/ think that would be helpful. However, I agree with the Co-op): I rise to speak in support of Lords amendments 1, hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) 11, 16 and 17, and on amendment 18 I send my best that we need to do everything we can in the agricultural wishes for a speedy recovery. I declare an interest: my sphere to work on this important issue. little sister is a farmer in Cornwall. I thank all farmers I will now deal with the Government amendments. for their work throughout the covid-19 pandemic. Amendment 2 requires all new multi-annual financial This is a crucial moment for British agriculture. Today, assistance plans introduced after the end of the agriculture Members on both sides of the Chamber are given a transition period to be published 12 months before choice about what kind of country we want Britain to comingintoeffect.Thefirstmulti-annualfinancialassistance be. Do we want to be a nation that shines as a beacon plan, which covers the seven-year agricultural transition, around the world, standing up for our farmers, for the will be published by the end of this year. All subsequent welfare of our animals and for the environment? Or do plans will be published at least 12 months ahead of we want to throw all that away, just for the vague their coming into effect. Those in the other place felt promise of a trade deal, so that poor-quality food is strongly that building in time between the publication served to our children, standards are undercut and of multi-annual financial assistance plans and their carbon and animal-welfare responsibilities are exported? coming into effect would allow farmers to prepare for I do not want to see Britain be the kind of country them and adapt to any potential changes. The Government where our farmers are forced out of business, decimating agree and are pleased to propose that amendment. our proud rural tradition. Amendments 5, 6, 7 and 8 change the frequency of reporting on food security—to which I spoke briefly I do not think anyone in this House wants lower-quality earlier—by requiring reports to be published at least food on our plates, but unless the Government show every three years. The first report will be published some leadership and back British farmers, there is a real before Parliament rises for Christmas next year, 2021. risk that that could happen. Labour has been clear that This report will include an analysis of statistical data the Bill must include legal guarantees that our high UK relating to the impact of coronavirus on food security in food and farming standards will not be undercut in the United Kingdom. post-Brexit trade deals, whether with the USA, Australia or any other country. That is because Labour backs Amendments 10, 13, 14 and 20 to 29 were requested British farmers. In calling for food standards to be put by the devolved Administrations and reflect the positive unequivocally in law, I wish to speak not only for Labour working relationship that we have with our counterparts but on behalf of the 1 million people who signed the there. I am pleased that each of the devolved legislatures NFU’s petition on food standards and, of course, on has given legislative consent to the Bill. behalf of British farmers from Cornwall, Plymouth and Amendments 10, 13 and 14 require the Secretary of Devon to the east of England, to Wales and to Scotland State to seek the consent of the DAs before making when I say: put high food and farming standards into regulations within their competence under clauses 32 law. Do it now—do it today. or 37. Amendments 20 to 29 give the DAs the power to It may seem a long time ago, but less than a year ago make supplementary and consequential provisions in the Conservatives made a pledge on food standards in all areas of the Bill for which a legislative consent their manifesto. This is how it started: motion was sought. Amendment 15 removes the provisions “In all of our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on in clauses 42(4) and 42(5), as devolved Ministers have our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food assured us that they are not required in law. standards.” Amendments 3, 4, 19, 30, 31, 45 and 46 are technical This is how it is going: our farmers risk being undercut amendments that ensure that clauses 14, 15 and 16, as by cheap imports from abroad within months. If the well as their equivalent provisions in the schedules for Government are serious about keeping their manifesto Wales and Northern Ireland, will operate as intended. promise to safeguard standards, they should put that The clauses rely on a body of retained EU law being guarantee into law. If that promise was good enough for created at the end of the transition period. We have the Conservative manifesto, why is it not good enough recently been advised that that may be necessary to for the Agriculture Bill, this Government’s flagship allow us to continue to fund existing common agricultural piece of legislation on food and farming? I say to the policy legacy schemes. Minister that refusing to put that piece of the manifesto Finally, amendments 32 to 44 enable legislative powers into law raises the question as to whether thar part of created by the Bill to be exercised on or after the day on the manifesto was truly meant and whether that promise which the Bill receives Royal Assent. This will enable us can be believed. 77 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 78

6.45 pm are not guaranteed and are there to be won, but they Undercutting our farmers at the very moment that need to be won through a strong vision and through farm support payments are being radically overhauled delivery. Taking votes for granted is not a good electoral creates a lot of uncertainty for those working in agriculture. strategy anywhere. We need to look at what farmers will Farmers are already facing massive uncertainty over benefit from and what will they not benefit from. I our trading relationship with the EU, our biggest export worry that leaving a back door to their being undercut market for agricultural products. They are up for the in trade deals is neither a good economic strategy for challenge of decarbonising food production and they our country, nor a good political strategy for those largely back the new farm payment scheme, as Labour people advocating it. does, although more detail on that, to be published I expect the amendment to strengthen the Trade and shortly, would go a long way to building support among Agriculture Commission to be redrafted in the Lords, and farmers for it. However, all that good will is going to be I hope it will come back to us soon. Amendment 16, on for naught if Ministers allow the economic foundation strengthening the trade commission, and amendment 18, of farming to be washed away. They will do that by on food standards, are a one-two—they are a classic rightly holding our farmers to high standards, but opening British double act. I do not believe that the temporary a back door to the import of lower-quality food. and fragile Trade and Agriculture Commission would Labour MPs will tonight back amendments that protect be able to stop the International Trade Secretary,Dominic Britain’s food standards, not just because that is the Cummings and the Prime Minister signing a trade deal right thing to do, but because we have listened to farmers with America that would include imports of chlorinated and we stand alongside them. The Conservative party, chicken and hormone-treated beef. That is why we need save for a courageous few, must look carefully at what that one-two—strengthened scrutiny of trade deals and they will be voting for tonight. This Bill needs cool protection for our farmers—in law. heads, not firm party Whips. I saw a lot of Conservative Jim Shannon: The agrifood sector is very important Members pose for photos for Back British Farming to Northern Ireland. We have built up a regulation and Day in September—every day should be Back British a standard that we have sold the world over. I hope the Farming Day. On this day, when our farmers need us, shadow Secretary of State will press Lords amendment 16 we have a chance to see who are the real friends of to a vote, because it would ensure that our products farming, who are there when the weather is bleak and a retained their standards the world over and that they would job needs to be done, and who are there only when the not be lost in this deal. Does he share my concern? sun shines. Luke Pollard: I share concerns about the quality of Sir Edward Leigh: Why does the hon. Gentleman food that could be imported after a post-Brexit trade think that so few British farmers vote Labour? Is it deal is done, unless there is a legal lock. because they recognise Labour as a metropolitan elite outfit? Matt Rodda (Reading East) (Lab): I absolutely support my hon. Friend’s points about the importance of farming Luke Pollard: I am grateful for that intervention, and of a long-term vision to support our farmers. I because it gives me a chance to say that we back our think that tonight’s debate is significant for us and for British farmers. Tonight, they will be looking at the the farming sector in the future. Does he agree that votes cast in this place to see whether Members of consumers are very concerned not only about the quality Parliament that represent farming communities, be they of our food and the risk of things being done by the red or blue—these communities are represented on back door, but about the viability of our farms? both sides of this House—support British farmers or choose not to do so. That will be a decision for each and Luke Pollard: I thank my hon. Friend for making that every Member, but let me be clear: farmers are watching point, and I agree with those concerns. British consumers what happens in this debate tonight and what votes are have spent decades arguing for increased animal welfare cast, and their votes are not secured for the next election. in our agriculture production, and putting their faith in Their votes are to be played for. I look forward to that those brands, supermarkets and products that have competition. higher levels of animal welfare than others. That concern exists. Tim Farron: The hon. Gentleman is making a great I want a trade deal with America, but it is really series of points. I am sure he would humbly accept that important that we do not pay for that trade deal with in the election last December the Conservatives made the livelihoods of our farmers. That is why the commission gains from his party in many urban parts of Britain needs to be strengthened, providing extra scrutiny of because of the characterisation that Labour had taken standards, and we will need an amendment that locks those seats for granted. Is the same thing not here on those standards into law. I want the commission, as the the table tonight: large swathes of blue in rural Britain hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) hinted at that the Conservatives assume will vote for them come in his intervention, to be put on a permanent statutory what may? Is it not the lesson of tonight that at the next basis and to produce a report on every trade deal so that election many Conservative MPs will be in the same this House can vote on it. Our farmers feed the nation. position as his colleagues were in December? The least they should expect is that their elected representatives have the opportunity to vote on whether Luke Pollard: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that to accept a trade deal that could devastate the economy. intervention. The important thing I have taken away The Minister is right that a Bill is not required to set from my discussions with farmers in Devon and on that up, but that means that the only thing required is a visits to farms up and down the country is that their choice—and that is a choice that the Government have votes are not guaranteed. The votes of rural communities chosen not to make. 79 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 80

Jonathan Edwards: I am extremely grateful to the decide? This is something I have heard and read about hon. Gentleman for giving way, because this is an in Tory-leaning media, but let me be clear with Ministers, important point. Increased accountability would actually because all those in this place know what the Treasury strengthen the hand of UK negotiators. I remember and the Department for International Trade are planning. scrutinising the TTIP deal between the EU and the US Charging a few extra pence on lower-standard food in Washington, and one of our last meetings was with import tariffs while public anger is at its highest will members of the food lobby, who told us, “Nothing is give Ministers a convenient soundbite to offer a nation going through Congress unless we agree with it.” ill at ease with the Government’s policy. They will then be able to drop those tariffs through secondary legislation Luke Pollard: I agree. At least British Ministers will when the anger dies down. The end result will be that not have to utter the phrase, “It won’t get through we still have chlorinated chicken and food produced to Parliament,” because Parliament has, sadly, voted itself lower standards on sale, whether it is for a few pence out of having a say, making it one of the few Parliaments more or a few pence less. That will not stop those in the world that will not have a say on any trade deals products being sold in the United Kingdom. It will with Britain. authorise and legitimise it, and it will sign the death warrant for farm businesses the nation over. That is why Let me address briefly some of the reasons the Minister we want these standards put into law. gave for not supporting the amendments, because it is In the midst of a climate and ecological emergency, it important that we consider the arguments. Last week I is imperative that we have a clear road map for agriculture heard the International Trade Secretary say that if we to reach net zero. The NFU has done a good job in its have high standards, that would risk having a crippling work so far, and I want to thank farmers for the efforts effect on agricultural exports from developing countries they are making to cut carbon emissions, which are a such as Kenya. I know that Members are concerned sizeable chunk of UK emissions. That is why we back about that, but the problem is that it is not right. At the efforts to have clear, sector-specific plans that farmers moment, thanks to our membership of the EU, the can follow, and we also back efforts including the Government have nine trade deals with sub-Saharan amendment tabled by Lord Whitty in the other place on African countries, and so far not a single one of them pesticides. That matters because of the impact not only has been rolled over. We risk losing those trade deals on the environment but on human health. with sub-Saharan Africa if we do not renew them by 31 December. If we care about our agricultural exports, I fear that, in seeking to disagree with these amendments that should be the priority. The Minister also knows that tonight, the Government might be trying to hint at the the Government should have a better plan for improving Salisbury convention, which is that the other place should the post-Brexit UK version of the EU’s generalised not interfere with manifesto commitments. However, scheme of preferences,which sets lower tariffs for developing the Lords are doing something different from that: they countries in exchange for meaningful protection of human are doing a reverse Salisbury. They are asking the rights, labour rights and the environment. Government to stick to their manifesto commitments. In such circumstances, the Salisbury principle does not What else is used as an excuse for the Government apply, and the Lords should ask the Commons to not putting their promise into law? The Minister mentioned reconsider these amendments on food safety and on the labelling. I have spoken proudly from this Dispatch Box Trade and Agriculture Commission again—and again, about the need to buy local. I want consumers to look if necessary. Every time this House votes on these out for the red tractor and other local accreditations amendments, more and more farmers will be looking at when they are making purchasing decisions. But let us the voting list to see which Members support the farmers be real: an extra label will not stop lower-quality food and which have chosen not to. We cannot take any votes being sold in Britain. It offers a meagre apology on the for granted, and I warn Conservative Members against packaging, but only where there is packaging. Ministers doing so. know that 50% of our agricultural production does not go into retail. It goes into food service—to cafés and Just last week the Leader of the Opposition and I restaurants, food processing and the like—where the visited the farm of the NFU president, Minette Batters, origin of the ingredients is, at best, hidden. That is in Wiltshire. That was our second meeting with the precisely where chlorinated chicken would be sold and NFU president in a month, but the Prime Minister still eaten first. It would go to big caterers and into mass refuses to meet her. I would be grateful if the Minister production—places where consumers cannot tell where could pull a few strings to get the PM to meet farmers their food has come from or know the standards it is to talk about this issue. produced to. It would go into hospital food and into meals for our armed forces and our schools. The Victoria Prentis: I believe that the president of the Government claim that the amendment is unnecessary NFU will be visiting Downing Street later this week. because standards are included in the withdrawal Act, as we have just heard. However,the EU’simport restrictions Luke Pollard: Where the Leader of the Opposition apply only to products banned on the basis of safety leads, the Government follow. I am grateful for that. and, as was mentioned earlier, they do not deal with That visit to Wiltshire was not in vain, I see—[Interruption.] animal welfare or environmental protections, which is What kind of country do we want to be? [Interruption.] what this amendment seeks to do. I do not think that a country whose MPs shout at each There is one more excuse, which has not been spoken other in a debate like this is a country that is good— about so far, that is absolutely key to the Government’s [Interruption.] I have not heard that from this side and future trade strategy, and it is about . Could not I encourage those on the Conservative side to recognise Ministers just these products a wee bit more with an that as well. There are people watching this debate in extra couple of pence on tariffs and let the market farming communities up and down the country. They 81 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 82 are tuning into BBC Parliament and parliamentlive.tv I welcome the fact that our farmers have produced for the first ever time, and they should see parliamentarians such excellent food throughout this pandemic, and I pay performing at our best in this debate. tribute to the food processing industry, which is worth I want Britain to be a nation of quality—[Interruption.] £120 billion to this country.It is the largest manufacturing Let me start that again, because the people at home industry in this country and 60% of the food that is might not have heard me over the chuntering. I want processed is produced in this country under very high Britain to be a nation of quality, of high standards, of standards. So the whole direction of the Bill is right, it ethical treatment of animals and of stewardship of our has to be the case and I very much support it and the landscapes; a custodian of high environmental standards; way that we go.It gives us the independence and sovereignty and a nation that challenges other nations to compete to do it. Likewise, we now have the sovereignty to with us fiercely but to do so on a level playing field. I develop, argue for and produce our own trade deals. So want Britain to be a beacon country with our values why are we not a great beacon of animal welfare and proudly on show, not just in soundbites and manifestos, the environment as we negotiate these trade deals? We but in our laws, trade deals and behaviours. That is what have in our manifesto a commitment both on animal the amendments on food standards seek to achieve. It is welfare and the environment. Would it not be right for a moral compass that this Agriculture Bill desperately the Secretary of State for International Trade to have needs.a It is because of that, and because Labour backs the armour of Parliament’s backing to say, “I can’t our farmers, that we have voted at every opportunity negotiate away that particular part of the deal with you against the Bill, which singularly fails to protect our because it is written down in law”? farmers from being undercut by food produced to lower animal welfare and environmental standards abroad. Richard Fuller: Does my hon. Friend agree with me Our farmers are not afraid of competition but, when we on the frustration that hon. Members feel that, when it maintain high standards for them but allow potentially comes to trade deals, we are told at one time, “Well, it food produced at lower standards to be imported, that can be in that Bill,” and at another time, “It needs to be is unfair. It is not a level playing field. That food would in that Bill”? Would it not have been helpful if the be illegal for British farmers to produce here, but somehow Department for International Trade had been here today? it would be okay to have it through the back door. That cannot be allowed and that is why our food standards Neil Parish: It would indeed. My hon. Friend is right. must be put into law. If we try to amend the Trade Bill, we get told, “That is not the place to put it.” If the Agriculture Bill is not the 7 pm place to put it either, where is the place to put it? The No party should take rural communities for granted. place to put it is in this Parliament. I will very much I respect an awful lot of the voices on the other side, support this, as do my hon. Friend and many Conservative who I have not heard shouting today, for their work in Members. We want to negotiate very good trade deals, standing up for their farmers and in trying to convince and not only with Australia, New Zealand and America. DEFRA Ministers and, importantly, the Ministers who Do not forget that this is about not today and tomorrow, hold the whip hand in the Department for International but probably several years down the road. What about Trade to recognise the importance of putting our standards when we start to do trade deals with Brazil? Brazil has in law. It is a fight we must continue. It is a fight that burned down 2.5 million acres of rainforest this year must be continued by those on the Opposition Benches, and what do they do? They grow sugar beet and soya, they but equally I encourage those on the Government Benches produce poultry intensively and they destroy the rainforest. to do so, too. There is a cross-party concern about food When they have destroyed 2.5 million acres of rainforest standards. There is cross-party support broadly for the every year, they will move on to another bit of land. words in the Bill about changing our farm support methods, They have destroyed the fertility of that land. They do but the words that are missing—those that would put our not even farm the land in the right way. They destroy food and farming standards into law—are the ones that the environment and the land for farming and if we are we need to focus on. That is why we will be voting for the not careful, that is exactly where we are going to take it. amendments with pride, passion and patriotism tonight. Instead of that, we—the British—believe in animal Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): I welfare. We believe in the environment. All the signatories call the Chair of the Select Committee, Neil Parish. to the NFU petition agree on the way forward. So do the Government. I have every respect for the Government Neil Parish: It is great pleasure to follow the hon. Member and the Minister. But, for goodness’ sake, get the backing for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) of Parliament. Yes, we will get a certain amount of and to speak in this debate. I say clearly that I shall be scrutiny of the trade deals when they are done, but the supporting amendments 2, 12 and 16 tonight and I will deal will be signed and then presented before Parliament. explain why. There will then be the option of objecting to it, or This Agriculture Bill goes exactly in the right direction. voting it through. As we have left the common agricultural policy, we can That is why the work has to be done. We do not need now move in a more environmental direction. We can the whole Trade and Agriculture Commission; we could bring in much more rotation of crops and go back to have a slimmed down version that could consider every traditional types of farming. We can reduce nitrates individual deal over the years, as we sign it, to ensure and pesticides, plant more trees, capture carbon in more that we do not trade away those standards, and that we grassland, have more grass-fed beef and lamb, and improve standards across the world—that we raise the produce poultry and pigs to very high standards. We are standards of animal welfare and the environment. Surely reducing all the time the amount of antibiotics used, that is laudable. All of us can support that, irrespective and we are creating a much greater and better product. of our . I urge the Government: instead of Animal welfare is at the centre of our production. saying, “We’ve got the power. We can vote it down and 83 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 84

[Neil Parish] secure a trade deal here or there, but that seems too high a price to pay. I am left considering only the possibility stop those rebels whatever happens”, we want something that they simply have not thought this through because really positive from the Government. I support the the alternative explanation is that they intend to drive down Minister very much in what she is doing, but let us get food standards and consumer protections. Some say this measure in, so that we can actually support trade that that is because they have the wealth to ensure and trade deals in the future. sufficient high-quality food for themselves and so give not a jot for the health and wellbeing of others. That, Deidre Brock (Edinburgh North and Leith) (SNP): It frankly, would seem a strange attitude for elected is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Tiverton representatives to have. However, I see few other and Honiton (Neil Parish), who made a passionate speech. explanations for the refusal at least to replicate our existing food protections. The former Secretary of State I rise principally to speak in support of amendment 16, for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, now Chancellor although I will have a few words to say about the of the Duchy of Lancaster, promised us several times missing amendment 18. Amendments such as Lords that UK food standards would not be undermined by amendments 9 on a national food strategy, and 11 on future trade deals. Here is the best and very possibly the pesticides, are clearly devolved matters and properly last opportunity for this DEFRA Secretary and his decided by our Government in Scotland. However, in Minister to do something about it. solidarity with our friends in England, I wish to express disappointment that this Government have chosen simply I must say a few words about the rather hamfisted use to strike all the amendments down, rather than to of parliamentary tactics by the Government to prevent amend them and use them to improve the Bill. I cannot debate and a vote on Lords amendment 18, which understand why they have not taken that opportunity. would require the Trade and Agriculture Commission Regrettably, however, I think I am right in saying that to make a report on recommendations for policies very few—if any—Opposition amendments or new clauses to protect food standards, domestic production, the were accepted by the Government throughout the course environment and animal welfare, and the Secretary of of the Bill, so perhaps I should not be so surprised. State to lay the report before Parliament. It has long been suspected that the Trade and Agriculture Commission I welcome Government amendments 10 to 15 and 20 was created so that the Government might evade the to 29, which mean that the UK Government will have wrath of their Back Benchers and a likely defeat in this to gain the consent of the devolved authorities in further Chamber. Here was an opportunity to create a Trade areas such as organics, but once again I contrast that and Agriculture Commission with some real purpose approach with the bulldozing of devolved competences and strength, instead of leaving us with the weak sop to in the internal market Bill. I wonder if one hand of the the Government’s MPs that it is currently. Instead of Government is aware of what the other hand is up to. creating a commission that had the ability to overturn There remains plenty to be worried about in the Bill, any decisions made by Governments that might threaten and the dismantling of England’s farm support system, the viability of our farming and food and drink sectors, to be replaced by some amorphous idea of payments we have a body that is frankly nothing more than a for public goods, must rate high on that list. The issue poodle of the International Trade Department. It looks that causes the most concern to food producers in like yet another internal battle between the Department Scotland, and to Scottish consumers, is that of food for International Trade and DEFRA has been standards. The extra scrutiny measures that the Minister comprehensively won, or lost, once again. has announced are of course useful, but I look in vain for something with real teeth that can quell the very real We in the SNP have repeatedly expressed concern concerns that we hear from all corners of the House. about the body over its lack of any real teeth and the lack of regard for the devolved authorities.These proposals One provision that has been inserted into the Bill will do not go far enough, or did not go far enough, as do something to address that gap and place the issue of reports do not provide concrete protections or requirements food standards in the Bill, and we should keep that for the Government to act, but they also do not reflect provision. Lords amendment 16 relates to clause 42 of the reality of devolved competences, and we insist that the Bill, as it was bounced back here from over there, the devolution settlement be considered and respected and it should be kept in the Bill. It is not perfect but it is in any reports so produced. With all that said, the Tory serviceable and it offers some protection against what Government are offering nothing more than empty are sometimes appallingly poor standards of food words as a protection for food standards and a report production in other countries. by the Trade and Agriculture Commission would at Shoppers have some idea of the quality of what they least do more than that to protect food standards. buy in the shops because of the regulations in place to However,as we see tonight, even that wee bit of protection ensure the quality of food from farm to shelf. Those has been blocked by the Government. regulations—those safeguards—will be dumped if this All Scottish MPs received a letter signed by dozens Government get their way. We know that because there of farming, health, environmental and social justice have been plenty of opportunities to put protections organisations recently pleading with us to support higher and guarantees into legislation. This Bill, the Trade Bill, food standards through these amendments—from the withdrawal Bill and the internal market Bill have all the National Farmers Union Scotland, to Citizens been passed up by the Government, denied, done down Advice Scotland, the Royal Society for the Protection of and refused. Birds Scotland, the Leith Community Crops in Pots, This Government sometimes seem hell-bent on reducing Unite Scotland, Unison Scotland, the Trussell Trust the quality of our food supplies and, frankly, it is not and many, many more. The question for me is: will the entirely clear why. Some have suggested that it is to Scottish Tories ignore them all? 85 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 86

I note from the most recent survey of Which? on the piece of legislation and we have to make sure that we get subject that some 95% of the respondents from Scotland it right. Amendment 16 has the same intention on food who voted for the Conservatives in 2019 called for food import standards as the Commons amendment tabled standards to be maintained, with around three quarters on Report by members of the EFRA Committee, as of them saying that they were uneasy, first, because the touched on by its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member UK Government had not entirely ruled out for good for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish). I believe that lifting the bans on chlorinated chicken or hormone-treated our arguments remain now as strong as they were then, beef; and, secondly, because such bans could be lifted if not stronger. Ministers have frequently suggested that with a vote in Parliament. Again, I call on the Scottish this is not a trade Bill, but I would reiterate that the Tories to do the right thing by all their constituents—to issue of fair terms of trade for high standards in British give them the protection that our citizens look to their agriculture simply cannot be separated from farming elected representatives to provide and vote for this and environment legislation, which is what we are discussing. amendment to stay within the Bill. Wechallenged Scotland’s I have listened closely to what the Minister has said, I supine six to do the right thing by their constituents and have been encouraged by her words, and I know that by the people of Scotland at the time of the Trade Bill she has worked extremely hard on this, but, as I said, I debates, but they meekly followed their Westminster will vote today to write concrete legal protections into leader through the Lobbies once again. Will they finally, the Bill. I hope that a continued stand on this issue will this time, do their jobs and represent the interests of the encourage the Government to put our manifesto people who elected them to this place? commitment to maintain UK standards on to the statute book—something that will reassure consumers as well 7.15 pm as the industry on this issue. The SNP has voted to protect food standards almost a dozen times over the course of the debates on the Steve Brine: On amendment 16, my hon. Friend—and Trade and Agriculture Bills, and we will not stop there, neighbour on this Bench—is absolutely right. Is not the unlike this Government. The very latest poll released wider point that we would be sending out a message that this weekend showed once again that Scotland has tired we want the rest of the world to change their practices? of enduring a series of Governments we did not vote for It is not just about what we do domestically; it is about dragging us into situations we do not want to be in. I Britain being a beacon for the right thing elsewhere in am delighted to say that it showed once again clear the world. majority support for Scotland making its own way and deciding its own priorities for vital issues such as the : I totally agree with my hon. Friend. quality of the food we eat and protections for our On that issue, it would be helpful for the Minister environment, our animals, and our food and drink and to address whether the legal guarantee regarding agriculture sectors. It is clear that the Conservative amendment 16 would impact on the UK’s progress party had better get used to it. towards our climate change and net zero goals. I think it would, and without that guarantee, it would be much Julian Sturdy ( Outer) (Con): I draw Members’ easier to bring in Brazilian beef, for example, which attention to my declaration of interest in the register. would increase the carbon footprint for a family shop—it I want to speak in support of amendment 16. I had also would be much higher. That does not even touch on the hoped to speak in support of amendment 18. I commend issue of palm oil or the destruction of our rain forests, the Government for introducing amendments 2 and 5 which have already been mentioned. to 8 in the Lords. As chair of the all-party parliamentary I will finish by talking about the fate of amendment 18. group on science and technology in agriculture, which I really do think that the Minister should look at sponsored Lords amendment 275 on improving regulation strengthening the role of the Trade and Agriculture of gene-editing techniques, I thank the Government for Commission in the way the amendment suggests. I responding positively to this with the offer of a public know that, technically, we cannot vote on it or debate it consultation this autumn, meaning that we do not have tonight, but I do think, as she has already heard from to discuss that amendment here today. Members across the House, that this issue is not going Having called on Report for producers to have more to go away, and it must be addressed. time to plan and restructure their businesses under the new agricultural policy,I warmly welcome the Government’s Hilary Benn: I, too, listened very carefully to what the Lords amendment 2 mandating the publication of multi- Minister had to say, and I have to say that I agree with annual assistance plans at least 12 months ahead of the hon. Members for York Outer (Julian Sturdy) and implementation. I also strongly support the Minister on for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), because I do Lords amendments 5 to 8 responding to the calls from not understand the Government’s resistance to putting me and others on Second Reading for the Government these sensible changes into legislation. The problem the to report on British food security more frequently than Government have is that the more they claim to want to every five years. Personally, I would have liked the do what the amendment is seeking, but then say, “But Government to go slightly further, but the three years we can’t do it”, the greater they raise in the minds of that is now proposed is a step in the right direction, and everyone watching—farmers, consumers and others, as I welcome that. well as colleagues on both sides of the House—the idea I firmly back the broad aims of the Bill and believe that something else is going on here. So, let us be honest that the Government have improved it in the Lords in about this. response to suggestions from the sector and parliamentary We all know how trade negotiations work and the colleagues. However, I continue to support amendment pressure that trade negotiators come under. Let us 16 and will vote for the proposed changes in line with consider the United States of America—with which the the principle of the amendment. This is an important Government, to be fair, are very keen to get a trade 87 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 88

[Hilary Benn] by the workings of the common agricultural policy. Through the CAP, our agriculture industry has become agreement, because they have decided to move away less competitive through ill-thought-through subsidy from the best trade agreements they have, with the schemes that have impeded productivity,stifled innovation European Union. The fact is that that pressure will exist and failed to protect the environment as much as we regardless of who wins the presidential election next could have. Let me be clear: this is the fault not of the month. I think the hon. Member for Winchester farmer, but of the system they have been constrained by. (Steve Brine) put his finger on it when he read from the A change is required and this Bill goes a long way to letter, in which it appears that Ministers are saying, shaking up the system and achieving that, which is great “Well, don’t do this because it will make it more difficult”. news. But how is doing what the Government promised to do I will use my time to talk about Lords amendment 16. in their manifesto more difficult—and it is only fair? This has rightly received much attention and I have The Minister talked about undesirable side effects. I given it immense thought as I want to ensure that our listened very carefully but I heard her give only one agriculture industry thrives and is truly sustainable long example, which was her reference to hedgerows in Africa. into the future. However, as we look to adopt new I understand the point she was trying to make, but it legislation, it is vital that we scrutinise the detail and the does not really work when we look at the new clause in anticipated consequences. amendment 16, because subsection (2)(b) talks about Let us be clear about the current position: the Bill standards that does not lower food safety standards. Of course, the “are equivalent to, or exceed, the relevant domestic standards and amendment goes much further and obligates that any regulations in relation to” agri-environmental food import must be produced and the areas we are discussing. Furthermore, the very next processed under standards that are equivalent to the subsection gives the Secretary of State the power to UK for animal health, plant health and environmental determine what those standards are equivalent to. The protection. We must ask ourselves: while the intentions argument made by the Minister, for whom I have great are entirely laudable, in reality, what will the consequences respect, that somehow there will be a fixed process that be for the supply of food that we wish to import, such would lead to absurdities does not really wash when we as the vast amounts of tea imported from Kenya, read what is actually in the amendment that their lordships bananas from the Dominican Republic or coffee from have put together. Vietnam? I want to talk about sow stalls, which were banned Let us take environmental standards, for example. If here in 1999. No doubt the Minister will be aware of the Vietnam and other developing countries, such as Ghana new cruel confinement law, as it is called in California, and Indonesia, that export coffee beans to the UK were which not only bans the use of sow stalls in that state, expected to provide evidence that they meet UK carbon but bans the sale in California of pork produced in emissions targets, I can see that that would have a other American states that still use sow stalls. I am dramatic impact on the UK retail and hospitality sector, advised that that includes Iowa and Minnesota. Could as I suspect that countries would not be able to meet the Government please explain why it appears that such requirements. Equally, it would not make sense for California is able to ban food products produced by the UK to require trading partners with certain climates what we regard as cruel means in other states of the and environmental conditions, which are very different United States of America, but that we somehow have from those here in the UK, to meet our specifications, difficulty in doing the same in deciding our new rules? such as the UK’s requirement for nitrate vulnerable zones, which are specifically adopted to UK conditions. The final point I want to make is on the new clause It is vital that that level of detail must be explored and in amendment 17. Again, I do not understand the considered at this stage, to see whether it is practical to Government’s argument. The Minister said that sector- try to enforce this amendment to a domestic piece of specific targets were not really helpful, but the basic and legislation abroad and to see whether it is workable in obvious point is this: if we are going to meet our climate law. I want to see a thriving agricultural sector. change targets, as the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) pointed out, we are going to need Neil Parish: My hon. Friend’s argument is that we progress in every single sector of the economy, agriculture, must not put in a standard because we will stop imports land use and forestry included. Therefore, it seems that from certain countries, so is he suggesting that we just it would be really helpful to have an interim target to go to a lower and lower common denominator to allow help the farming industry to make the changes that we food in from anywhere? When we do a trade deal, we know will have to come. I am pleased to hear that quite can write this into law. We could actually write this into a few Government Members will vote for them, but I law with all the least developed countries to give them urge the Government at this stage to think again. preference in trade with us, rather than throwing out our trade to Brazil and Malaysia. Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con): Farming and the future of the agriculture industry are subjects that I am Robbie Moore: I believe that a totally protectionist incredibly passionate about. Before entering this place, approach is the wrong one for the success of our agricultural I had been involved for my whole life in the farming industry in the long term. We have a huge opportunity sector, and I use this opportunity to draw the House’s available to us. This amendment would constrain our attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ agricultural food sector’s ability to grow, expand and Financial Interests. meet the new export opportunities that will come from It is my view that for far too long our agriculture our country setting out on the world stage and negotiating industry and the entrepreneurial spirit that the sector new trade deals, which we should be bold and optimistic undoubtedly encompasses have been restrained and stifled about for our UK farming sector—for example, expanding 89 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 90 whisky exports to Canada, potato exports to Egypt and The only reason that the Government would resist milk exports to Algeria. I am proud to say that British the enforcement of minimum standards in the Bill is if beef is back on US menus for the first time in more than they wanted to allow themselves the freedom—the wriggle 20 years, and that market opportunity needs to be room—to sell out our farmers. In a letter publicised last explored. week, the Minister said: “Such conditions would make it very difficult to secure any 7.30 pm new trade deals.” Of course, this is not all about export. What about our In other words, “If you don’t allow us to throw our domestic market? To provide some reassurance to our farmers under a bus, we’ll not get the trade deal that we UK farmers, the existing protections will remain. Food want.” If we care about not only farmers, animal welfare coming into this country will need to meet existing import and environmental protections but the communities requirements, as the EU withdrawal Act will transfer all that those farms underpin, such as mine in Westmorland, existing EU food safety provisions to the UK statute we are letting down generations of farmers and the book. We have a great opportunity, but I believe that heritage that they promote and have protected if we stronger labelling and a beefed-up Trade and Agriculture allow the Government to throw all that awayin negotiations. Commission will help, and I am sad to see that Lords If Members want to back British farmers, they cannot amendment 18 is not coming to the House. just wear a wheat badge once a year—they must vote for the amendment tonight. Tim Farron: Let us start with some common ground. I am pretty sure everybody in the House thinks that the George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): I rise as a paying of public money for public goods is a good thing Member of Parliament for a very agricultural constituency, and that the environmental land management scheme and as the product of a farming family—in fact, I think is—in principle, at least—a good thing. Of course, by I still have a place on offer at Harper Adams if this the Government’s own admission, the environmental career does not work out—as well as a former Minister land management scheme, or ELMS, will not be accessible for agritech, former trade envoy, and chair of the all-party to all farmers until 2028. We are three and a half parliamentary group on science and technology in months away from the scheme that it replaces beginning agriculture. to be phased out, and 85% of the profitability of livestock farmers in this country is based on the basic This is a major moment, when we take back control payment scheme. My first ask is that the Government of our farming policy from the EU after 40 years, and be mindful of that. They must not take a penny away of our trading destiny and sovereignty. It is on a par from the BPS until ELMS is available to every farmer in with 1947—the last great reset of agricultural policy—or, this country. Given that fragility and that upcoming indeed, the corn laws. I welcome the Agriculture Bill, change in payments, it is all the more important that we and the work of DEFRA Ministers and officials in do not put British farming at risk as a consequence of setting out a framework that supports commercial British the new arrangements for trade. farming—a great British industry that is leading in the world—and recognises that its important environmental Paying for public goods is vital. Those public goods work, which involves managing 70% of our land area, are biodiversity, food security, access, education and so requires additional support. In broad terms, I strongly many other things, including the landscape that underpins welcome the Bill. the lake district’s tourism economy. All of them are at risk if we make the wrong decision here. Amendment 16 I welcome even more strongly the Conservative party’s is so important because it underpins, and prevents the commitments, both in our manifesto and over the last Government from undermining, British values when it 18 months from the Prime Minister, the Chancellor of comes to animal welfare, the sovereignty of this place in the Duchy of Lancaster and my right hon. Friend the scrutinising and reviewing legislation and trade deals, Member for Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers), who and the future of farming itself. was the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and What is the USP of British farming’s food exports? Rural Affairs at the time of the general election. I also It is quality. If we allow the undercutting of our welcome everyone who asked about our commitment to farmers through cheap imports—cheap because of the ensuring that we do not in any way undermine those poor quality of their production—we undermine our standards. The Prime Minister put it beautifully when reputation and our ability to trade internationally and he said, be successful. It is important for Members to understand “we will not accept any diminution in food hygiene or animal … that amendment 16 is about strengthening Britain’s welfare standards We will not engage in some cut-throat race to the bottom…We are not leaving the EU to undermine European hand in negotiations. If our negotiators say to the US standards”. negotiators, “We’d love to help you out, but we can’t because Parliament won’t let us,” that is real strength He could not have been any clearer. which allows us to get the kind of deal that is good for For that reason, I welcome the comments of my friend British farmers, for the environment and for animal and neighbour, the Secretary of State for International welfare. It would strengthen this Parliament. The Minister Trade, my right hon. Friend the Member for South West said that we have spent 100 hours debating the Bill. Norfolk (Elizabeth Truss), her agreement to the Trade That contrasts very worryingly with the length of time and Agriculture Commission and her personal commitment we will have to scrutinise trade agreements that will last to ensuring that we do not negotiate away any standards. for generations. It will strengthen our standing and This really matters: to the great industry of British reputation as a country if we write into the Bill our farming and agriculture; to consumers watching today, determination to ensure that we uphold animal welfare who want to know that we are looking after their interests; and environmental standards, as so many Members on to voters, to whom the Conservative party gave those both sides of the House have said. solemn commitments last year; and, dare I say it, to this 91 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 92

[George Freeman] Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP): This is a vital piece of legislation, and it is symbolic. This is the party, which I have always seen as a party of the drawing of a new era for the United Kingdom and our countryside, of stewardship, of rural community, and agriculture industry outside the European Union, with of high standards in animal welfare and environmental the ability to shape our own policy on food production, farming. That is what is on the table when we vote standards, the environment and animal welfare. It is a tonight. Either we are that as a party,or,in the countryside, test, therefore, of what our standards will be, what value we are very little. we place on our farming and agrifood sector, and how This should be a hugely exciting opportunity for us to the sector can prosper while we ensure that our environment set out an ambition and lead globally, to use our trade is protected for future generations. leverage to promote fair trade around the world, to give Throughout the passage of the Bill, the focus has our farmers a level playing field, to embrace variable rightly been on standards, and I make no apologies for tariffs, and to ensure that we support growers around bringing my remarks to standards again today.I welcome the world to follow the standards that we need them to Lords amendment 16, which, if added to the Bill, would embrace. We have to double world food production on provide the legislative assurances needed for consumers, the same land area with half as much water within farmers, processors and retailers that the Government 20 years. That is a massive opportunity for our agritech are committed to protecting the standards that we all industry. Imagine if we used our tariffs variably to say, value, enjoy and want to see protected, not eroded. “We won’t accept food that breaches our minimum standards. We will lower tariffs on decent food, but we’ll Jim Shannon: Does my hon. Friend agree that it is zero tariff food produced in ways we know we need as a very important that steps are taken to ensure that food global community.” imported into the UK under future trade deals is produced But there is a major problem: the Government, despite to equivalent standards to what we have been producing endorsing all of that vision, are today stripping out the in Northern Ireland for the last number of years? It is so proper establishment of the commission that the Secretary important to retain and build upon the qualities that of State for International Trade herself agreed to, carefully we, in Northern Ireland and across the whole United negotiated in the House of Lords. They are asking us to Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, have rely on CRaG—a process agreed decades ago that was had over the past few years. not designed for this purpose, and which will mean that Carla Lockhart: I agree wholeheartedly. As I said at this House will not have a say on trade deals—and the last stage, flooding our market with cheap imports asking us to rely on the WTO, which specifically prohibits and cheap produce will have a disastrous impact on our animal welfare and food production standards as a farmers. We cannot claim to back British farming one legal basis for any trade restrictions. We are saying that day and not protect our farmers in law the next. I am we defend farming and the standards that we support, conscious that since the Bill was last before the House but denying this House the means to guarantee them. the Government have made many verbal commitments on this issue, so why not put them into legislation? What (North Herefordshire) (Con): What else is the justification for saying something outside this has my right hon. Friend done about how he feels about House if they will not enable it through legislation this matter? Has he written to anyone about it? within the House? George Freeman: I am grateful to my distinguished We, as Members of this House, have a duty to act in hon. Friend. The truth is that we can talk about standards, the best interests of our constituents at all times. To do but if we expose UK farmers and growers to imports that, we must ensure that the food that our constituents coming in at a lower price because they are not fulfilling eat, from the youngest to the oldest, is of the highest those standards, they will not be able to compete and standard and that our agricultural industry—the we will be throwing away the opportunity of having a cornerstone of our society—is protected in law. It is great industry that leads the world. Lord Curry, who extremely disappointing that Lords amendment 18 was tabled the amendment in the other place, said: ruled out of scope. My colleagues and I would have supported it on the basis that it would allow this House “Under the current terms, the commission will set up for six months and will submit an advisory report to the Secretary to scrutinise trade Bills, their impact and the standards of State, which will be presented to Parliament. It will then be being allowed with our new trading partners. This House disbanded and disappear into the mist. There is no obligation on should be accountable for every food product imported theSecretaryof Statetotakeitsrecommendationsseriously”—[Official into the UK. Report, House of Lords, 28 July 2020; Vol. 805, c. 145.] Farmers in Northern Ireland, with a farming model If we, as a Government and as a party, are seriously largely based on family farms where the work is hard committed to honouring our commitments, I would like and the margins are by no means guaranteed, look at us to go further. Why do we not commit to enshrining the Government’s reticence in legislating on standards our standards properly in some form of schedule—the with suspicion, and I share such suspicion. For the standards that we will not undermine or allow any Government to demand the highest standards of their Minister of any Government to negotiate away? Why own farmers, at considerable cost, financially, socially do we not give this House the power to ensure that it and mentally, but refuse to make it law that importers can scrutinise properly? Why do we not embrace a trade will face those same demands is just bizarre. I urge the policy that is fit for this 50-year opportunity, which puts Government to think again. We need the Bill to allow the British flag at the top of the mast for standards, and our local Department to administer direct payments go out into the world and say, “We’ll use our trade from 2021, and, as such, we will support it overall, but leverage and variable tariffs to support the good, benign we do so in protest, and out of our farmers’ need to practices that the world urgently needs”? receive that much needed financial support. 93 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 94

In closing, let me touch on the amendments and the When we compare those potential global benefits provision in the Bill relating to environmental standards. with the risk of not upholding our standards, the choice The farmers I represent and those I spoke to regularly is not only stark but obvious. Rather than promoting are wholly committed to the highest environmental high standards around the world, we could see UK standards—standards that will far exceed those in many markets flooded with low-quality, unhealthy food. Not countries with which the Government will seek to do only could that represent a serious threat to public health, trade deals. However, in return for a focus on sustainable but domestic farmers would struggle to stay competitive agriculture those farmers need the Government to recognise against cheap imports from abroad. They could not that they cannot do it alone. They need the Government have made it clearer how worried they are about that. to support them, and thus far support has fallen far I therefore implore Members—particularly Government short. That must be addressed. This House has a choice Members—to think carefully about these amendments today.I will stand up for British farming and its world-class and what kind of nation we want to be. We have a choice standards, and I hope that others will join me. between supporting our agricultural industries to produce sustainable, high-quality food and becoming a world Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): As I think you leader in environmental protections, and undermining will know,Madam Deputy Speaker,because you have often our health and our farmers by choosing cheap, low-quality been in the Chair, I have been closely involved with the imports and that race to the bottom. I know which side Bill at each stage of its seemingly interminable progress I will choose to be on today, and I hope that the rest of through the House. I spoke on Second Reading on both the House will join me in supporting legal guarantees of occasions, and I served on both Bill Committees, in this high standards. Parliament and the last. I am grateful for the opportunity to speak once again today to make the case for rewarding good stewardship of our land—I believe that is what John Lamont (Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk) the Bill does, for the most part—and for maintaining (Con): I am the son of a Berwickshire farmer, and I am high standards in food production. Obviously, we are proud to represent one of the most fertile parts of rural here to discuss why the Bill falls short on that front. Scotland. The food producers in my borders constituency are the best in the business; the quality of our produce 7.45 pm is second to none. Others have spoken in this debate on Unfortunately, it looks as if the Government are both sides of the question, particularly around food again set to oppose attempts to protect British food and standards, and they are all just as passionate about their British farmers. These Lords amendments are supported own local areas. not just by peers in the other place but by farmers,consumer What this debate has shown more than anything is groups and the vast majority of the British public. the consensus that exists across the House, reflecting Anything that unites me and the Chair of the Select the views of people across the country, that our high Committee, the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton UK standards of environmental protection and food (Neil Parish), on farming has got to be the right call. production are the right ones and that they must be The amendments are also in line with the Government’s preserved. Where there is disagreement, it is about how own manifesto promises. As many Members have said, we can best do that in the years ahead. if the Government do not intend to allow food standards I understand why some hon. Members will support to be undermined in future trade agreements, they have these amendments from the House of Lords, and I nothing to fear from legislating for that. I have sat through understand why a number of my constituents got in so many debates in Committee and in the Chamber touch to ask me to do the same, but I will not, for three where we have had assurances, but people simply do not main reasons. First, I do not believe that they are in the believe that the Government want to protect our British best interests of farmers and producers in Scotland and food and our British farming standards.If the Government across the United Kingdom. We are in this position do mean what they say, I have yet to hear a decent because we have left the EU, and we will soon be explanation why we cannot legislate. outside the common agricultural policy and the common The Future British Standards Coalition has advised commercial policy. It is worth taking a moment to that legislating to ensure that food imports meet British remember that these matters were settled when we were standards would not only benefit the health of UK members of the EU. The EU did not, does not and will citizens and our environment but encourage higher not ask its trade partners to adopt all its environmental standards in nations that wish to export food products and food standards, as the amendments would ask the to the UK. That was the case with the state of Punjab in UK to do in the years ahead. The trade deals we now India, which banned nine pesticides to boost basmati enjoy, which we hope to roll over, were signed on that exports to the EU and the UK. That was a victory for basis. Making the proposed changes would put the both global trade and our environment, and it shows continuation of those trading relationships at risk. what can be done if the will is there. Secondly, the amendments are not necessary. The law The UK should embrace this opportunity,not run from already forbids the things they seek to guard against. it. We need far more ambition on this issue at the World Chicken washed in chlorinated water is banned in the Trade Organisation. I do not see why the UK should United Kingdom. Growth hormones in beef are banned. not lead the way so that other nations follow suit, In the last few decades, it was the EU that signed trade orientating their trade policy around the environment deals, and this House had no role in agreeing them. In and public health. We know that there is a public health the future, the House will be a player in that process. crisis in this country and in many others; we ought to The UK Government will conduct the trade negotiations, lead from the front and restore our food system so that and this Parliament will scrutinise the Government and it is about health and sustainability rather than a race to hold them to account. In the end, Parliament can block the bottom. an international treaty if it so chooses. 95 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 96

[John Lamont] localities of homes and schools, as well as the exposures, the risks and the acute and chronic adverse health impacts Thirdly and finally, I fear that these amendments for rural residents. It does not specify the distance would be harmful to some of the world’s poorest people. required between pesticide use and nearby public space— Requiring every country we do a trade deal with to match that is for secondary legislation—but I can tell the all our rules would make it virtually impossible to reach Minister that we had a lot of support from the Clerks in agreements with developing countries. Those countries both Houses in the drafting of the amendment, and we might lack the necessary bureaucratic infrastructure to are convinced that it is an effective amendment to meet all our reporting requirements, or the rules designed protect human health. It is very significant that Lord for a rainy island in the north Atlantic might just not be Randall, who is a former environment adviser to the suitable for their climates. former Prime Minister herself, has said how vital the I do not doubt the sincerity of anyone supporting amendment is. these amendments; I simply disagree that the amendments Recent events have revealed that the precautionary represent the best way forward. They are not in the principle is one of the most important scientific principles interests of food producers, they are not necessary to we have, and we should be implementing it here. It does protect food standards and they would be bad for trade. not substitute for the overall shift that we need to see Free and fair trade is what allows us to enjoy food and towards agro-ecology, but it would do something to drink from around the world that our great-grandparents protect rural residents who look out of their windows had never heard of. It allows our producers to sell their right now and see farmers in protective equipment in exceptional quality products globally. It is what is lifting their tractor cabs, protected from the impacts of the the most vulnerable people in the world out of poverty. crops they are spraying, while those rural residents have Trade is a force for good, and with the high standards no protection whatever. We should be standing up for that we set in law and the enhanced scrutiny that this them and protecting them, and that is what the amendment House will provide for years to come, we have nothing would do. to be afraid of. The Lords amendment on the climate emergency is vital. It would require the Secretary of State to have Caroline Lucas: Until the last speech, I was going to regard not just to the UK’s net zero target of 2050, but say how lovely it was to feel a common view coming from to the Paris climate agreement and the critical importance the Government and Opposition Benches. Let me just of acting now to drive a steep reduction in emissions by say why I think the last speaker was wrong. He said that 2030. Right now, the Government are showing their if we adopted Lords amendment 16, for example, we world-beating ability to set long-term targets on climate would be imposing standards on developing countries change at the same time as demonstrating a world-beating that they could not reach. In fact, the EU has all sorts ability to utterly fail to accompany them with either the of arrangements with poorer countries precisely to be policies or the funding required to deliver them. That able to support them in improving their standards. There amendment would put that right. is nothing here that would inflict inappropriate standards Finally, as others have said, it was laid down in the on some of the poorest countries.The hon. Gentleman also Government’s manifesto that they would maintain said that our standards are safe, but they are not safe if standards, yet when they are put to the test, they fail they are going to be undermined by cheaper imports again and again. Those standards should not be put on that do not meet those same standards. That is tantamount the altar of a trade deal with the US and sacrificed; they to handing a knife to our farmers and asking them to should be implemented. That is what the Government cut their own throats. It is not a sensible strategy. promised in their manifesto, and that is what they I want to speak to some of the amendments from the should deliver. other place and particularly to Lords amendment 9, on the national food strategy. The amendment stipulates Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown: After that rant, I am very what that strategy should contain, including things such pleased to take part in this debate. I have to commend as the sustainability of food production and consumption, my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh improving dietary health, reducing obesity, minimising and Selkirk (John Lamont), because I think he gave one food waste, ensuring that public procurement supports of the most outstanding speeches I have heard in this a shift towards sustainable farming, and so on. It is House. significant that cross-party support for the amendment in the other place was strong. I start by drawing attention to my declaration of interest as a farmer. I have lived with this subject for The letter the Minister sent to MPs last week explained some 67 years of my life—my father was a farmer. I that the Government object to amendment 9 because it have a passion for the countryside, I have a passion for would British farmers producing high-quality goods, and I “impose arbitrary timetable requirements for objectives the have a passion for British farmers managing the British Government has already committed to fulfil”. countryside in the way that it is, and that is the way the I hope she will forgive us, but we want to see that public want to see it continue to be managed. The Bill commitment in the Bill. We have seen already in the gives us an ideal opportunity, through the way we are debate that we do not trust vague commitments, and going to purchase public goods, to continue to raise the certainly not vague commitments that do not even have standards of British agriculture. a timetable to them, given that, as I said earlier, the I have been in this House for 29 years. I have not seen Environment Bill is already 200 days late. a single free trade agreement negotiated by the EU that Lords amendment 11 is about protecting people from has damaged British farming standards, and I do not the adverse health impacts of pesticide use. It addresses believe that will happen in the future. I have listened to what crop pesticides are currently permitted in the every word that my hon. Friend the Minister has correctly 97 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 98 said from the Front Bench. What we do not want to do I rise to speak in favour of amendment 16. The is jeopardise the 29 or so roll-over free trade agreements clarion voice of the people is at issue here and it is our from the EU by passing legislation in this House tonight responsibility as MPs to convey the horror with which that would do such a thing. our constituents view the Bill and its in-built opposition Whilebeingpassionateaboutmaintaininghighstandards, to their ambitions for food safety that respects the I do not think that Lords amendments 12 and 16 are the environment and safeguards the welfare of our animals. way to do it. The way to do it, as was so rightly said by The people of Scotland have spoken clearly in rejecting my hon. Friend the Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh the Bill and its aims, and Ministers would do well to and Selkirk, is through variable tariffs that make clear listen. If the Minister is listening for the voice of Scotland, to our trading partners that if they do not adhere to our I can assure her that she will find it over here on the high standards, we will raise the tariffs on their goods. SNP Benches, not over there on the Tory Benches. That is the way to do it. Scottish Tory MPs do not even speak for Scottish Tory The second way to do it is to beef up the Trade and voters, 95% of whom backed calls for food standards to Agriculture Commission. I say to my hon. Friend the be maintained, according to Which? People are asking Minister that the Government can do that unilaterally why the Tory Government and the majority of their without any legislation. They can simply renew the term Back Benchers do not listen to the people—[Interruption.] of the Trade and Agriculture Commission, and I urge That includes those who are chuntering from a sedentary her to have serious talks with the Department for position right now. Perhaps if the risk was of chlorine- International Trade to see whether that can be done. It washed chanterelle mushrooms or hormone-injected does not need to be put in the Bill. We do not need foie gras, Tory Ministers would have less of a deaf ear amendments to the Bill. We might need to look at it in than the one they have turned to those of us who are the Trade Bill if the Government are not sympathetic to happier dining on chicken fried rice and mince and my arguments, but that is a different matter for a tatties. different day, and I might well support amendments of So much for taking back control, the newly independent, that sort if I do not see progress. yet strangely impotent UK cannot specify the standard of food we will import going forward: John Bull under There are lots of things I do welcome in the Bill, and the heel of Uncle Sam right enough. That pitiful my hon. Friend the Minister has been right to mention transatlantic asymmetry rings truer now than at any them, particularly Government amendment 2, which stage in Anglo-US history. The Tory Government have relates to multi-annual assistance plans for farmers. demonstrated in the most humiliating and unedifying That is absolutely vital for how we will support our way possible that nothing will get in the way of a US farmers in the 21st century.Wewant them to be producing trade deal—in and of itself a highly questionable negotiating more of the food that our British consumers eat. While position. I have been in this House, I have seen more and more goods imported into this country, whereas if our farmers The Government have betrayed civil society across could start to produce more, all those imports—things these islands and ignored valid evidence and well- such as yoghurt and cheese—could be replaced with documented concerns about the Bill and its shoddy goods produced in this country. If we keep up our high back door, leading to a food standards horror show. standards, we will continue to export more and more to The will of the people of these islands is ignored by a other countries. Recently, we have seen our pork and Government who have purposely allowed the DIT tail milk powder go to China and my excellent Cotswold to wag the DEFRA dog on food standards. lambs go to France. There is a huge opportunity around That highlights a betrayal that will take some beating—all the world if we keep our standards up. That is the way in the name of breathing life into the Brexit myth of no we need to go: not dumbing everything down, but global trade without Brexit. Meanwhile, Mercedes, Zara, keeping standards up. Airbus, Heineken, Volvo and L’Oréal all sell big from I am delighted that some of my ideas on food security within the EU to the US without the need for European are in amendments 5 and 6 and will be included in the Governments to betray their populations and farmers Bill. That is important and gives our farmers the stimulus through the food that they produce and feed to their to produce more of the high-quality food we want to children. eat. One thing that the coronavirus lockdown taught us The Government are capable of listening to industry was that the supermarkets, such as Waitrose and even as we saw during covid, when they listened intently to Lidl, that went out of their way to promote British food the supermarkets about food supply and to the private did best and are now prospering in a way that they had supply chains about food distribution. So why will they not previously. not listen to farmers on this issue? Farmers have been very clear on matters of provenance, the risk to their The Government should not accept amendments 12 business of an any-price trade deal, and the supply of and 16, but they should act through tariffs. seasonal labour. Why do the Tory Government seem to hold our 8 pm farmers in such contempt? The question is rhetorical. We all know that it is because of the twin Tory totems Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP): In following the hon. of Brexit and immigration, which, for the hard of Member for The Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown), thinking, are one and the same thing. On a post-Brexit I will try not to resort to impolite comments such as trade deal, the DIT speaks for Government. The Home that which he directed at the hon. Member for Brighton, Office speaks for Government on immigration, specifically Pavilion (Caroline Lucas). He could not see the their disastrous approach thus far to access to seasonal embarrassment on his colleagues’ faces when he made labour from abroad. No wonder many are beginning to that comment. ask what exactly DEFRA speaks for. 99 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 100

[Dave Doogan] Bill Wiggin: Rightly or wrongly, it would become illegal, if we follow these rules, to bring anything from If the Government persist in proscribing the most the EU that did not allow that into this country. My basic protections for our food supply from the Bill, no hon. Friend is right to raise that; it is wrong. Food amount of watery, weasel words will hide the simple labelling is the solution, and to have a grass-fed label fact that a Government that cannot act as guarantor for that allows 49% of the feed to be grain is just not right. the food we eat cannot act as guarantor for anything. We need to be an outwardly global, free trade-friendly Scotland is taking a different route. but sensible country. These amendments are much more to do with stopping subsistence African farmers rather Bill Wiggin: It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member than Texan ranchers. It might surprise some of the for Angus (Dave Doogan), just as I did after his maiden supporters of these amendments to learn that we are speech. May I say that he needs to allow a little more of already importing illegally produced food through the his Scottish charm to seep into his speeches? I need to EU. Supermarkets sell Danish bacon—with English- declare my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial sounding farm names, to fool customers—from pigs Interests, particularly as a breeder of Hereford cattle. whose mothers are kept in sow stalls, which were banned Some 88% of Herefordshire is farmland, and 10,200 in the UK in 1999, on the grounds of cruelty. people work on our 2,812 farms. On amendments 12 and 16, let me say that farming is Neil Parish: Does my hon. Friend also accept that not a religion; it is a business. We need to increase farm when we banned those sow stalls and tethers, Europe incomes, cut NHS expenditure on obesity, lose the need did not, and it decimated our pig industry in the meantime? for food banks, and ensure that we behave towards our Therefore, if we do not get the trade considerations livestock in the way that we behave towards one another: right, we will trade away all our food production, like with respect, kindness and, most of all, understanding we have already. of the huge challenge all this presents. The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, the Green party, Extinction Bill Wiggin: I do not get any extra minutes for that Rebellion and many others have their own agendas on intervention. I ask Members also to think about our how to run the landscape, so their contribution is not stocking density for chickens, which is 39 kg per square surprising, but the NFU’s is surprising, because it has metre, as opposed to 42kg in the EU. German hop gone far too far in trying to wrongly frighten people. growers use chemicals that would not be allowed in this We must remember that the Agriculture Bill is primarily country, and apparently the French will give a derogation a continuation Bill. The amendments would put strict for neonicotinoids so that their farmers can produce conditions in place when the EU negotiates a free trade oilseed rape. That is outrageous. Where are the objections deal, whereas when we, as part of the EU, negotiated to buying Danish bacon? Where are the people kicking free trade deals with other countries, none of those off to protect our pig farmers? My hon. Friend the Member restrictions were in place. If we impose strict food for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) is absolutely requirements, America will challenge and win at the right: when we did the right thing, we were decimated. WTO. Opposition Members may rejoice at that, but the I want us to achieve everything that my hon. Friend EU will not be able to accept those terms either. the Minister talked about. We should have proper food standards and better labelling. The people we should be Robbie Moore: Does my hon. Friend agree that the putting our faith in are the consumers. They do not whole House wants to achieve better standards across want hormone beef; they want to know that what they the board, but we must look at the detail that amendment are buying is good, clean and proper, and they are 16 brings? grown up enough to make their own decisions. There is room for everybody. We produce 61% of Bill Wiggin: I agree not only with my hon. Friend but food eaten in this country and 75% of that which we are with my hon. Friend the Member for The Cotswolds able to grow here. The remainder—more than £47 billion- (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown), who said he made an worth—is all imported. We have the capacity to pay our excellent speech—he did. Our two largest trading partners farmers more, import from international markets without would be gone, threatening £22 billion-worth of exports substitution for lower standards, and ensure that we of food, drink and feed—everything we are selling. The produce the best and healthiest food at a cost-effective EU has already threatened to ban animal products, a price. trade worth £3 billion, only last year. That should be no The Prime Minister has called on us to find the inner, surprise. Trade deals with non-EU countries would be or thinner, hero inside us and shed those pounds. That gone too: the hard-fought trade deal with Canada and is spot on. If we can lower the price of healthy food in 43 trade agreements with 70 other nations. We think this country, we could not only see our nation lose that our food standards are very high, yet we allow weight but address the need for food banks. With better religious slaughter, we are gassing pigs in our abattoirs, food prices, innovation can progress in the agricultural we do not insist on catering or welfare standards labelling, sector, and we can have what we always wanted: farmers and we fudge our grass-fed labelling— receiving public money for public goods. I want the Minister to commit to ensuring that farm Chris Loder (West Dorset) (Con): In 2018, 25% of the incomes grow on the back of the environmental land sheep slaughtering in this country was done without management scheme, and not be diminished. I want the stunning. Does my hon. Friend agree that that is totally Bill to allow us to protect the environment and produce unacceptable and that, before we start preaching about food, while ensuring that our food producers’ incomes other nations, we should look at our own animal standards rise, consumers buy healthier food and the need for after animals have left the farm? food banks goes. These amendments will not achieve 101 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 102 those goals or what our great farmers, consumers, I sincerely hope that the Minister will accept the constituents and future trading partners want: prosperity amendments on a topic that she must receive many and a better diet. messages about. I urge her to spend just 10 minutes looking at my inbox, which receives hundreds of emails Several hon. Members rose— every day from concerned constituents worried about their future food standards. Ultimately, we would be Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): doing ourselves and future generations a huge disservice Order. As colleagues will appreciate, there is still a lot of if we did not uphold our stringent food and animal pressure on this debate, and if those who have already standards or commit to a robust strategy to meet net spoken intervene again, somebody else will not get in. zero by 2050. In view of that, after the next speaker I will reduce the time limit to three minutes. 8.15 pm Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): Diolch yn fawr, Anthony Mangnall: It is always a pleasure to speak in Madam Deputy Speaker. On your warning, I will keep debates such as this. I thank the Minister for the time my comments brief and focused on amendments 16 she has spent informing Members from all parties about and 17. the course of the debate and for her work with many of Colleagues will be aware that amendment 16 aims to the farmers in my constituency. protect something that, thus far, the Government have There has been a huge amount of fear-mongering in shown very little regard for. Specifically, it aims to the House regarding the importing of chlorinated chicken ensure that imported food must meet UK animal welfare, and hormone-injected beef, and it has to stop. We all environmental and public health standards. Bluntly, I know that if SPS standards were to be changed, this struggle to see how Conservative Members can do anything House would have a say in doing so. That is something other than support it. We have all seen the horror stories about which the Opposition do not seem to be informing about hormone-injected beef and chlorinated chicken the general public. Wehave heard that on the Government hitting our supermarket shelves, but those headlines are side but not on the Opposition side. I hope that will be no longer just desperate attempts by the press to grab our reinforced in the closing remarks. attention. Sadly, without this amendment, that could be Since the introduction of the Bill and in my time as a the extremely unwelcome reality for us all in the near future. Member of Parliament, I have asked for two things. I It is vital that the Government use this pivotal asked for a commitment on labelling, and the Minister opportunity to commit to greater animal welfare standards. stood at that Dispatch Box and committed to the It is clear that there are ways to farm animals ethically. I consultation. I accept that, as the hon. Member for am proud of farmers locally in Wales and across the Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport (Luke Pollard) said, UK who are committed to the sustainable,ethical treatment there are difficulties around that, but we must not see it of their live produce. as an impossibility. There are opportunities for us to I want Britain to remain a beacon of high standards create a labelling system that can promote the “buy in the ethical treatment of animals and environmental local” argument throughout the country. I hope we protections. The Government talk a good game on might see from the Opposition the opportunity to develop climate change, but we are yet to see any solid evidence that labelling system into something that is internationally or change that will have a positive and substantial recognised and copied. impact. It cannot be denied that we are in the midst of a We have also heard ideas about what scrutiny we climate and ecological emergency. It is imperative that could apply to trade deals.The hon. Member for Edinburgh we have a clear roadmap for agriculture to reach net North and Leith (Deidre Brock) said that the International zero,and greater oversight of pesticide use.The Government Trade Committee did not have enough teeth; given the must commit to an ambitious strategy to achieve that. fact that it is led by her colleague, the hon. Member for When will the Government get a grip, finally take a Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Angus Brendan MacNeil), if she page out of the fantastic Welsh Labour Government’s feels it does not have enough teeth, we should either find book and commit to a consideration of flooding prevention another Chair or elect a new Member for it. The whole mechanisms in their agricultural policy? In Wales, all point is that the Secretary of State for International new developments are now required to include sustainable Trade has now given Parliament an extra degree of scrutiny. urban drainage systems, which are designed to mimic I personally have asked about the idea that we might natural drainage by managing surface run-off as close look at where we operate the trade commission. The to source as possible. We also need a commitment to hon. Member for Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport active agricultural land management to prevent run-off, was kind enough to mention me in his remarks, and which can cause flooding further down in the catchments. although I am not sure it helps my career when he does Colleagues may be aware that the issue of flooding and that, we do need to look at extending that commission. surface water is close to my heart, not just because I am If the Bill goes back to the Lords and then comes back the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary water group, to this House, my hon. Friend the Member for The but because residents and businesses in Pontypridd saw Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) and I will be their livelihoods decimated by the flash flooding earlier looking keenly at extending the remit and length of that this year. The recovery effort still continues, albeit sadly commission’s existence. It is important not only for with no support from the Government, despite the what we say to our constituents but that the House has Prime Minister’s promises. The Government can take something that gives an extra layer of scrutiny. small steps to support flooded communities by taking I will support the Government tonight, but I will be the lead and encouraging or incentivising farmers to looking to see what comes back from the Lords. I hope take flooding-prevention steps as part of a robust climate that we get some assurances from the Minister on the change action plan. trade commission. 103 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 104

Ben Lake (Ceredigion) (PC): It is a pleasure to follow I have two horses, which sit at the side of the beautiful the hon. Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall), although Kings Norton nature reserve. To my shame, I do not I fear I am about to disagree with some of the points he even own a pair of wellies. made. (Shrewsbury and Atcham) (Con): This evening’s debate presented an opportunity for As a regional MP from the west midlands, my hon. the Government to reassert parliamentary scrutiny of Friend is always welcome to join us in Shropshire, trade deals and to put into law their rhetorical support where we have the best farming in the country. for UK agriculture. During the course of this debate, we have seen valid concerns about the importance of : I thank my hon. Friend for that maintaining a level playing field for domestic producers intervention. In fact, my family name comes from and about importers given short shrift. It is disappointing Shropshire, so I have a little bit of agricultural heritage. that the Government will not support the measures in The reason I am speaking in this debate is that many Lords amendment 16, which would address those concerns, people across the whole country, in cities and in rural as well as enhance parliamentary oversight of trade areas, care deeply about standards in food and especially agreements. deeply about standards in animal welfare. It makes us I understand that we cannot vote on Lord Curry’s proud to be British that we have such high standards, amendment 18 this evening, but the Government should especially towards animals. That is why I was proud to nevertheless ensure that the Trade and Agriculture stand on our party’s manifesto, which was incredibly Commission is made permanent. That would improve clear in stating: the transparency of negotiations, give much-needed “In all of our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on reassurances that the interests of food producers will be our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food championed in negotiations, and offer some redress to standards.” farmers whose concerns have, I am afraid, often been Indeed, all the EU food safety provisions, including dismissed as mere protectionism—allegations that are, existing import requirements, would be transferred into frankly, an insult to the commitment and professionalism UK law via the withdrawal agreement Act, as their of farmers throughout the UK. removal would require new legislation. That is why I am The Government have not sufficiently explained their supportive of the Government tonight. I take the Minister approach to the sensitive matter of standards in trade and the Bill at their word, because I feel passionately negotiations or how they will reconcile different production that we are going to deliver on these things. systems. We have heard mention of measures being Time and again, we hear the same old arguments and introduced in the Trade Bill but we have yet to see them scaremongering from the Opposition Benches. To me, in practice. Against such a confused backdrop, this this boils down to two things that we regularly hear. Bill’s failure to require agricultural imports to meet One is the hatred of Brexit and the resistance to equivalent domestic standards of production should acknowledging that that vote took place. The other concern all the political parties. If we fail to ensure a thing that worries me is the growing anti-American tone level playing field between domestic production and that we hear seeping through from the Labour Benches, imports, we run the risk of endangering the viability of and especially from the Benches of the separatists. That many of our producers. We need only think of the really does concern me. We hear it in the arguments experience of the UK pig industry to understand the about chlorinated chicken and hormone-fed beef all the consequences of allowing imports that are produced to time, yet those things are already prevented by law from standards that would be illegal for domestic production. being imported into this country. The Bill does not The Government have tried to claim that such a requirement change that in any way. I can reassure my constituents, is unnecessary, as they have no intention of allowing who care deeply about these issues, that that will not imports of lower standards to enter the UK, but at the change. same time we hear Ministers claim that such a requirement The article that my hon. Friend the Member for would tie the hands of UK negotiators. These are South Cambridgeshire (Anthony Browne) wrote over irreconcilable claims. the weekend was an excellent way of describing the This Government have long talked up the benefits of situation that we are in today. Are we really going to taking back control and of how, post-EU, we will be pass a law that would harm many of the world poorest able to set the terms of our trade with the world. Those people? That would be the indirect consequence of terms should be quite simple: UK market access for these Lords amendments. The EU does not have the imports should be dependent on meeting equivalent levels of protectionism that these amendments are UK food production standards. I fear that this Bill suggesting. Are they really saying that EU standards fetters the success and the future of Welsh farming. I are too low? I will be supporting the Government today urge the Government to reconsider their position on and voting against the Lords amendments. amendment 16, as the Bill in its current form misses a golden opportunity to safeguard the long-term success Olivia Blake (Sheffield, Hallam) (Lab): You might be and viability of our food producers. surprised to know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that one third of the land in Sheffield Hallam is agricultural Gary Sambrook (Birmingham, Northfield) (Con): I land, and my husband is the trustee of a city farm. feel like a bit of an interloper in this debate, because Farming in all its forms is of great interest to me. many Members have talked about their heritage in The Government have insisted that when we leave the farming and agriculture, and the constituencies they EU, our trading standards will be world-leading, world- represent have vast amounts of farms and fields, but I beating, the best, the greatest, and the most fantastic in am a city boy and represent a city seat. I have no farms the world. In fact, they have started to sound a bit like in my constituency. I have two fields and no sheep. the President of the US, and they obviously want to 105 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 106 make a sweetheart deal with him. Our farmers are not Early this year I invited the International Trade Secretary convinced. I have been contacted about the Bill and the to my constituency, and we held a joint roundtable with amendments under debate by hundreds of constituents, local farmers, who directly raised their concerns with farmers and producers alike, and every one of them is her about animal welfare standards post Brexit. concerned about the future of our trading standards on I believe that British farmers have some of the highest food, animal welfare and the environment, as well as the food standards in the world, which is something that we impact of that on their farms and what is on their plate. should be extremely proud of. From my meeting with That is no wonder, because although Ministers talk farmers and local NFU members just last about high standards, without the amendments nothing month, I do appreciate that maintaining these high will protect British farmers from being undercut on standards comes at a high financial cost for the producer. food and animal welfare standards. The rhetoric about British farmers must absolutely not be put in a situation protectionism is reckless; we are talking about people’s where they are having to compete with lower quality incomes. The Minister may say that we do not need to food from abroad. I was very pleased that the Government worry about food such as chlorinated chicken because listened to the views of the NFU, myself and other the EU withdrawal agreement has carried over existing colleagues earlier this year and have now established standards,but my constituents do not trust the Government that independent Trade and Agriculture Commission, on that. We have seen what respect the Government which was referenced in Amendment 18. have already shown to this issue, and there is nothing to stop bans on such products being overturned through 8.30 pm secondary legislation. If the Government want to set I have frequently raised in this House and with the minds at rest, why will they not accept amendment 16 to Government the importance of maintaining high food guarantee that those bans will not be lifted without standards, and I will continue to back Staffordshire farmers proper scrutiny in Parliament? in this House. I also believe that this Bill recognises the In any case, the EU’s import restrictions apply only important and primary role of farmers as food producers. to products that are prohibited because they breach our The coronavirus pandemic has emphasised to residents standards on food safety, not those on animal welfare across the country the very vital role that British farmers and environmental protection. As my right hon. Friend play in feeding the nation. Tonight, I will now be backing the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) said when this Bill unamended, as I do believe that the measures highlighting the issue of sow stalls in California, it is set out will reward our farmers properly for the work right to ban such things in the UK. That cruel and that they do. inhumane method of producing pork should also be banned from all our imports on animal welfare grounds. Matt Rodda: I wish to declare an interest: I have We need explicit guarantees on animal welfare, but so several relatives who are farmers. far we have none. I rise to speak in favour of the Lords amendments. I Given that UK farming accounts for roughly one realise that time is pressing, so I will address the needs tenth of our national CO2 emissions, we need a Bill that and concerns of consumers rather than those of farmers, enshrines action on climate change. Why the Government although I acknowledge the importance of the Bill to are so averse to proposing any obligatory measures to the farming community. I would like to mention some meet our net-zero targets is beyond me. We need the Bill of the very serious concerns that have been raised by my to be more robust, to enshrine the commitment of constituents in both Reading and Woodley and to call zero-carbon emissions in the sector, and to support on the Government to listen to those concerns, even at British farmers and the health of our people by protecting this very late stage. food and animal welfare standards. Without the proposed amendments, the Bill will fall well short of that. The central point that has been raised with me is that the Bill as it stands will open a backdoor to food that is (Stafford) (Con): I welcome the Minister’s produced to lower environmental and animal welfare opening speech, which I listened to carefully. It did a lot standards. I wish to address both of these related issues to assuage the concerns of my constituents in Stafford, in turn. On environmental standards, it is very important which is a rural constituency, and of many farmers to remember that agriculture is responsible for a significant across the UK. However,I also understand the sentiments proportion of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gas of colleagues about the amendments under debate. I sat emissions, including methane, and that there are also a on the Trade and Agricultural Bill Committees earlier series of other issues associated with the industry however this year, so I had the opportunity thoroughly to question hard farmers both here and around the world are trying stakeholders and Ministers, as well as to scrutinise the to address them. The same also applies to animal welfare, Bill line by line. I feel that the Bill now provides a which has been led by British farming. As my right hon. once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to create an effective Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) agricultural scheme that backs British farmers. said earlier, there are opportunities for us in this country I agree with my hon. Friends the Members for Tiverton to influence animal welfare standards around the world and Honiton (Neil Parish) and for Keighley (Robbie Moore) by asserting our own rights now as an independent when they said that the previous scheme for agriculture, trading country. the common agricultural policy, has been a failure. These amendments would also allow for closer scrutiny From an agricultural perspective we have seen sluggish of trade deals. Another point that has been made quite improvements to productivity,poor farm incomes,regressive eloquently to me by residents in my area is that we should distribution of funding to the largest landowners,ineffectual not shy away from having the same approach that rules, and a failure to encourage the next generation of legislatures in other parts of the world have to trade farmers. I believe that Staffordshire farmers deserve deals. As I said earlier, consumers value the hard work better, and this Bill will be better. and dedication of UK farmers, and they want to see 107 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 108

[Matt Rodda] trade deal—a deal we all, goodness me, want to see succeed—would have to be altered. No current imports high standards upheld. However, it is important to to the UK are required to meet our domestic production understand what UK consumers are able to effect and standards. It is precisely our high standards and high where the Government need to intervene. Consumers do quality of produce that make our produce so attractive care deeply about British farmers and about maintaining to the outside world. Because of that and because we high standards, and they will raise issues with us as believe in high welfare standards, the Government have elected representatives. However,consumers are struggling given their commitment that in negotiating these trade to follow a range of complicated pieces of information about deals, we will not allow our domestic welfare production food standards already,and they do rely on the Government standards to be in any way diminished. We will protect, to intervene in the market and to try to make things defend and enhance our food safety, environmental and clear for them. They rightly believe that the Government animal welfare standards, and we will actively seek to should regulate and that Parliament should hold the export these world-leading standards and our expertise Executive to account as part of its constitutional role. to new partners around the world. I am conscious of time, Madam Deputy Speaker. This country is a world leader on animal welfare and Maintaining high standards is important to our country. food production standards. We are champions, or at Serious concerns have been raised by consumers, and least should be champions, of free trade. These two there is an obvious need to maintain proper regulation. principles are the foundation of what I believe global Given all that and the needs of the farming community, Britain seeks to be. These are the pillars of who we are. I hope the Government will now, even at this very late Therefore, for all these reasons, and because I support stage, listen to the concerns that have been raised and Scottish farmers and want to see our produce sold and think again. enjoyed across the world, I cannot support the Lords amendments before us. Andrew Bowie (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (Con): It is a pleasure to be called to speak in this vital debate, much of which has understandably focused on Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): This Bill could well be Lords amendment 16. I am sorry to disappoint the among the most significant pieces of legislation that we House, but being as unoriginal as I am I, too, will be debate in this Parliament. It covers our farming practices, restricting my remarks to that amendment. environmental protections and food supply chains. If the food shortages in supermarkets at the beginning of I have the pleasure of representing a constituency in lockdown have taught us anything, it is the importance Aberdeenshire, which is, as I am sure the House will of food security and traceability. Our constituents know agree, home of the best beef, lamb, berries and cereals this. Recent polling by Which? shows 95% support for produced anywhere in the United Kingdom. Of course maintaining existing food standards, and over 1 million these Lords amendments have given me pause for thought, people have now signed the NFU’spetition—yes, the NFU: just as the amendments tabled by my hon. Friends the that radical and dangerous organisation, according to Members for North Dorset () and for the hon. Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin)— Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) did. I have listened calling for food standards to be enshrined in law. to representations about the Bill—by email, phone, over social media, and in person yesterday at the door of The most frequently raised issue recently by Bath the church—from farmers and food producers in my constituents has been the Agriculture Bill. They want constituency.I want to put Scottish and specifically north- reassurances about the quality of the food they eat. They east farmers first—first in the queue to benefit from the care about animal welfare standards and environmental trade deals that we are negotiating right now. In the next protections. They want to know that British farmers 30 years, the supply of food needs to rise by about will not be undercut by cheaper, lower quality products 50% to meet the needs of a wealthier, growing global from countries with fewer regulations. Like many others, population. I do not want anything that would stand in I have been supporting local businesses during lockdown. the wayof our high-quality,world-leading Scottish products We are lucky in Bath to have an excellent supply of reaching the shelves of consumers around the world. locally produced food from Somerset, and it will be In attempting to enshrine in law, as this well-meaning British families like these who will be left unsupported. amendment would, that food imported to the UK This pandemic has also underlined the importance of “be equivalent to, or exceed, the relevant domestic standards and healthy eating and good nutrition for our general health regulations”, and wellbeing, yet we risk exposing hundreds of thousands we would put at risk our ability to sell our products of families to low-quality food, undermining the overseas and put in serious jeopardy our ability to carry Government’s own obesity strategy.We must be mindful, on importing many of the foodstuffs we do at the too, of the agricultural sector’s role in getting to net moment. We already import a large quantity of goods zero. Lower food standards encourage poor production from developing countries. This includes products sold practices, and the result is massive damage to the directly to consumers, such as bananas from the Dominican environment. Unless these standards are legally enshrined, Republic, and goods processed into final products, such the risk remains that this Government will compromise as tea from Kenya, coffee from Vietnam and cocoa on environmental protections and food and welfare beans from Ghana. Wedo all this under existing European standards, as they head out in a desperate search for Union rules, and as my hon. Friend the Member for trade deals after Brexit. Just last week, the US Agriculture North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin) pointed out, we should Secretary said: not even get started on Danish bacon. “Weabsolutely will not agree to policies that restrict our methods None of the transition EU FTAs has exported domestic of production to any other standards outside of this country”— welfare production standards. This amendment would the US. How can we ask our constituents to rely on mean that the existing mandate for our European Union nothing more than ministerial assurances? 109 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 110

The Government argue that enshrining food standards message—that the Government, and I, as the local MP in the Bill would undermine trade negotiations. That is in Moray, have their back and will support them in not true. This morning, the Future British Standards continuing their efforts to uphold the outstanding standards Coalition published its interim report, with evidence that they have built up through years and generations. that it is possible to reject low food standard imports, remain WTO-compliant and still strike trade deals. The Kim Johnson (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab): In their Government want Britain to be a global leader in trade. 2019 manifesto, the Conservatives promised not to Why not be a leader that encourages trading partners to compromise on food standards in future trade negotiations, adopt higher standards? I urge Members across the saying: House to support the Lords amendments, particularly “In all of our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on amendment 16. our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards.” Douglas Ross (Moray) (Con): I come from a farming They have not put this commitment into law. The Bill background. It was all I was ever interested in at school. does nothing to prevent British farmers from being I grew up on a farm where my dad was a farm worker undercut in post-Brexit trade deals with countries with and I had a passion for dairy cows—Holsteins. When I lower animal welfare, environmental and food safety was thinking of future careers, the only green in my life standards. The Government argue that all current legal was the grass that the cows ate in the fields rather than protections have been carried over by the EU (Withdrawal) the Benches I now sit on. This is something that goes Act as retained EU law, including bans on chlorinated through my veins. Representing a rural constituency chicken and hormone-injected beef, but this can be like Moray makes it a hugely important issue for me, overturned in secondary legislation without adequate both locally and nationally. parliamentary scrutiny. I want to say from the outset that this debate is not Our membership of the EU kept our food standards about chlorine-washed chicken or hormone-injected beef, high, but we are currently negotiating with other countries which are banned in this country and will continue to whose standards are substantially lower than those in be banned in this country going forward. There have the UK. These products include chlorinated chicken and been scare stories in the media and throughout the hormone-injected beef from countries such as the US debate, which I have watched from the office and then, and Australia. Australia still uses farming methods that when seats became available, in the Chamber. We have are currently illegal in the UK. Hormone-injected beef, to get past that. This is also about what our Moray, our for example, is currently banned under EU law due to Scottish and our UK farmers have done for years and concerns about public health as well as animal welfare, through generations in building up their world-leading yet the US and Australia are reputed to be pushing for and respected animal welfare and food safety standards. the UK to accept imports of hormone-injected beef. They have done so much, through generations of farmers, Chlorinated chicken masks salmonella and E. coli, and to build up the reputation that we now proudly have as causes poor animal welfare conditions in barns and a country. abattoirs. Negotiations are left wide open to pressure on Ministers to use their powers to relax standards. Without I know how passionate the Minister is about upholding a clear and unequivocal guarantee in an Act of Parliament, these standards, as I saw when watching her opening the Tories’ manifesto promise is worthless. The US and remarks. Indeed, that passion is shared by those right other countries have made it clear that they will expect across the Conservative Benches. We were all elected on the Government to accept lower-standard foods currently a manifesto commitment to uphold those standards. I banned in the UK and the EU such as chlorinated know that every single Conservative Member believes chicken and hormone-treated beef. that and continues to believe it, no matter how they vote tonight. For some, it will be delivered through an The temporary Trade and Agriculture Commission unamended Bill because, they will rightly say, the Minister that the Government have established in response will has said, and repeated Ministers and, indeed, the Prime produce only one advisory report and not a continuous Minister have said, that this Bill does not reduce animal assessment of individual trade deals. Its terms of reference welfare or food safety standards.Others on the Conservative should be widened so that it is able to review all trade Benches and around the House will say that it needs to deals, in a meaningful way, and its recommendations be enshrined in law and put into the Bill. I do not should be made subject to parliamentary scrutiny. I believe that either is wrong. We all want to get to the support Lords amendment 18, which would put the same destination, but we could potentially take different commission on a statutory and permanent basis. routes. Some may choose the unamended Bill to uphold animal welfare and food safety standards, and others 8.45 pm will choose to amend the Bill, as amendments 16 states, Differential tariffs are not the answer, as they risk to call for agriculture and food imports to meet domestic tariff wars. That would harm British farmers but still standards. allow food produced to a low standard to be sold in the The passion that we all have to meet that ultimate aim UK. I support our UK farmers, whose industry could is shared; it is just that the route to get to the destination face a final blow if such trade deals go ahead. More is different. Having thought long and hard about this, I than 1 million people have signed a National Farmers have decided that the best way to do that—the best way Union petition calling on the Government to hold to to stand up for my Moray farmers, Scottish farmers, those standards. That is why I support Lords amendment and farmers around the country—is to get this measure 16, to protect our farmers and consumers from lower into the Bill. I agree with and support amendment 16 animal welfare, environmental and public health standards. because I want to make it absolutely crystal clear to I urge the Government to commit to their 2019 manifesto farmers up and down the country—to send them the pledge and to accept all six of the Lords amendments. 111 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 112

Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con): I want to discuss European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018, but the fact is Lords amendment 17. Although I believe it has good that those bans can easily be overturned in secondary intentions, it is ill-thought-through and unnecessary, legislation without proper parliamentary scrutiny. The and would unfairly burden farmers who are already Government know that, and they are already under doing fantastic work to reduce carbon emissions. pressure from new trading partners, including the US, The amendment would force the Secretary of State to to allow lower-standard imports in trade deals. introduce an interim climate change target for 2030, It is all very well the Government opposing the and make the Secretary of State commit to that target lowering of food standards in the realm of hypotheticals, through regulations within six months of the Bill gaining but when faced with a concrete opportunity to enshrine Royal Assent. Although I agree that farmers should that in law, they refuse to act. As with NHS privatisation, play their part in tackling climate change, I believe that the Government are repeatedly asking the public to the amendment is designed as a throwaway political blindly trust their promises, despite passing up the point rather than something necessary. opportunity to support legal regulations to achieve First, the amendment would set a net zero target for their aims, rather than flimsy incentives. Based on the farmers, but it provides little detail on how that could Government’strack record of privatisation and prioritising actually be achieved, despite its demand that regulations corporate profit over public health, I do not see why my be introduced within a short 12-month timeframe. How constituents should believe them on this occasion. could that be done? As has been highlighted in other I support amendments 1, 9, 11, 16, 17 and 18, which debates in the Lords, unless there is a miraculous scientific would strengthen the Bill in crucial areas such as food breakthrough within a year, farmers will have no option standards and environmental sustainability. I urge the but to produce less food in order to meet this new Government to adopt those reasonable amendments, target. I do not understand how limiting the amount of which are in line with their own stated aims. Otherwise, British food on our shelves would be of any benefit, as the Government must make clear today the reason why it would negatively affect both farmers and consumers. they want to drive down food standards and not support Secondly,the amendment would prevent the Government British farmers.During a climate and ecological emergency, from focusing on other ways in which we can reach net it is imperative that we have a clear road map for zero. By having non-sector-specific targets, the Government agriculture to reach net zero carbon emissions, yet there can reduce our greenhouse gases in ways that are efficient are no targets in the Bill for the agriculture sector to and that mitigate any negative trade-offs. This amendment achieve that. Across the board, this legislation fails to would unfairly punish farmers by making them reach a protect our food standards, our environment or the net zero target 20 years before other industries, many of health of residents in Leicester and across the country. which are more polluting than the agricultural sector. I do not understand the logic in that, and I am sure that Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I call farmers across the country will see it as deeply unfair, as the last speaker from the Back Benches, Ruth Cadbury. agriculture is responsible for only 9% of the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions. It should also be highlighted Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab): Unlike that the National Farmers Union has its own 2040 many Members here, I have just one small farm in my net-zero target, so the demand that it should somehow constituency, but a large number of constituents have be reached by 2030 is not backed by either scientific written to me expressing great concern about the evidence or our farmers. implications of the Agriculture Bill, particularly if the I would like to end by reminding this House that we Lords amendments are not incorporated. My constituents were the first major economy in the world to establish a expect Parliament to scrutinise the detail of all trade net zero carbon target, and we can be proud of that. Let deals, but Parliament is yet again to be cut out of full us also not forget that from 2010 to 2019, UK scrutiny and agreement on trade deals—a trend that is CO2 emissions fell by 29%, while our GDP grew by becoming something of a habit for this Government. 18%. Although there is more to do, let us celebrate our After listening to some Government Members, I really achievements and continue to support sensible legislation do wonder about their understanding of the dynamics which will ensure that we remain a world leader in of trade deals. Many of my constituents fear that the reducing our carbon footprint. Bill and the Government’s approach to trade will open Claudia Webbe (Leicester East) (Ind): I have received up our consumers to chlorine-washed chicken, hormone- hundreds of emails from residents in Leicester East impregnated beef and so on. The Minister said at the who are gravely concerned about the future of food start of the debate that we should not worry about quality and environmental protections after we leave standards falling because British consumers will choose the EU. It is therefore crucial that this Bill includes good-quality food, but as consumers we do not see the legally binding guarantees that high UK food standards labels for much of our food, because almost half the will not be cut in post-Brexit trade deals, whether with food we eat is made up of processed ingredients or is the USA or other countries that produce food to lower catered and therefore hidden from consumer vision. As standards. many Members have said, cheap imported foods with Despite their own 2019 manifesto commitment, standards lower than the EU’s threaten the viability of the Government have so far refused to do that. The many British farmers. Government have repeatedly said that they will not If the Government actually believed in the climate weaken food standards as part of any trade deal, but and environmental emergency that this Parliament declared they are refusing to make a legal commitment that a year ago, the Bill would set a clearer path for our would guarantee that. They insist that bans on lower- farmers to reach net zero. Why do the Government not standard foods such as chlorinated chicken and hormone- accept Labour’s amendment 17, which would set interim treated beef have been carried over into UK law by the net zero targets for the agricultural sector? 113 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 114

If we do a trade deal with the US that has no “Not yet”. This Government are not going to change it conditions on animal welfare, our farmers will be at under any circumstances. We have said very clearly that risk, because they will have to compete with low-cost in all our trade negotiations we will not compromise agricultural mega-corporations, such as those US pork our high environmental protection, animal welfare or farmers still using sow stalls. To prevent the cruelty of food standards. practices such as sow stalls, we need a law which says We have a range of tools to protect us. We have the that, in all trade deals, any imports must meet the same existing regulation. We have parliamentary scrutiny, standards of animal welfare that British farmers are which I detailed earlier, including the Environment, required to meet. Britain has historically often led the Food and Rural Affairs Committee, which I, for one, world on food standards, but sadly, this Bill means that think is significant. We have other experts feeding in, our food quality is at risk, our farmers’ future is at risk, including the Trade and Agriculture Commission, which our environment and our climate are at risk, and the many Members have spoken about. It was designed to welfare of farmed animals are at risk. I support the be helpful, to feed into the trade negotiations we are Lords amendments. conducting at the moment. There is nothing to stop it being stood up again if it was felt that that would be Victoria Prentis: We have had a treat this evening—we helpful. There is absolutely no need to put this in the have had Cotswold lamb, mince and tatties, Aberdeenshire Bill. I am very happy to take as an action from tonight beef, and berries and all sorts of other things. I, for one, that I will discuss this with the Secretary of State for have particularly enjoyed hearing farming voices this International Trade. Given what she said in her written evening. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member ministerial statement to the House today, I am not for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish), the Chair of anticipating that she will be surprised by that conversation, the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, but I undertake to conduct it. who is basically in favour of the Bill. He was able to I also think that consumer labelling is important, explain clearly how it would help the farmers of the while understanding that, of course, a lot of products future. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for are not directly labelled at the point of consumption. I Moray (Douglas Ross), who very much enjoyed growing think, however, that our consumers are canny and that up with fields green with grass. We heard from my hon. they can make many of their own decisions. We also Friends the Members for Keighley (Robbie Moore) and heard one other tool discussed this evening in favour of for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont), differing tariffs—my hon. Friends the Members for who both spoke in quite quiet, but experienced, passionate Mid Norfolk and for The Cotswolds both spoke about farming voices about how the trade of the future was that—and that is something that we should perhaps going to help others in the industry. think about in future. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for The You will know, Madam Deputy Speaker, that children Cotswolds (Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown), and we had play mummies and daddies or going to the shops. They perhaps the quote of the evening from my hon. Friend tend to ape what the adults around them do. Well, my the Member for North Herefordshire (Bill Wiggin), sisters and I played going to NFU meetings, because who said that farming is not a religion; it is a business. I that was what the adults around us did. I welcome the would like to reassure him that I see a bright future for work that the NFU has done to get consumers talking British farming under our new agricultural policies. about standards, but we do not need primary legislation Productive, environmentally sustainable food production— to have a Trade and Agriculture Commission. Amendment that is what we are going to support, and businesses. 16 does not enshrine these standards in law; rather, it We heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Mid obliges the Government to impose a wide and, in my view, Norfolk (George Freeman), and I am looking forward slightly ill-defined set of conditions on new and roll-over to a glittering career for him at Harper Adams. I think FTAs. And if Labour Members truly are champions of we will all benefit from what he learns there. We heard farming, they should not support amendment 11, which from my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer bans the use of any pesticide in any field. (Julian Sturdy). I was pleased to speak to him a great This Bill is great. The future of agriculture in this deal about gene editing earlier in the year and I am glad country is great. I commend it to the House. that we will be consulting on that. These were experienced Lords amendment 1 disagreed to. farming voices, passionate about trade. There have been other speeches of note, including from my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, 9 pm Northfield (Gary Sambrook), who was proud to say Proceedings interrupted (Programme Order, this day). that he does not earn a pair of wellies but he cares about The Deputy Speaker put forthwith the Questions necessary standards, and about trade. We heard from my hon. for the disposal of the business to be concluded at that Friend the Member for Stafford (Theo Clarke), who has time (Standing Order No. 83F). served on the Agriculture Committee, and who spoke Lords amendment 9 disagreed to. thoughtfully about the cost of production and the work that she had done to take the Secretary of State for International Trade to her constituency to speak to her farmers. After Clause 34 My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) is right: the fear-mongering must APPLICATION OF PESTICIDES: LIMITATIONS ON USE TO stop tonight. We are not going to be importing chlorine- PROTECT HUMAN HEALTH washed chicken or hormone-treated beef. That is the Motion made, and Question put, That this House law of this land. [Interruption.] There is no question of disagrees with Lords amendment 11.—(Victoria Prentis.) 115 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 116

The House divided: Ayes 347, Noes 212. Grant, Mrs Helen Longhi, Marco Division No. 128] [9.1 pm Gray, James Lopez, Julia Grayling, rh Chris Lopresti, Jack Green, Chris Lord, Mr Jonathan AYES Green, rh Damian Loughton, Tim Adams, Nigel Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Griffith, Andrew Mackinlay, Craig Afolami, Bim Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffiths, Kate Mackrory, Cherilyn Afriyie, Adam Colburn, Elliot Grundy, James Maclean, Rachel Ahmad Khan, Imran Collins, Damian Gullis, Jonathan Mak, Alan Aiken, Nickie Costa, Alberto Halfon, rh Robert Malthouse, Kit Aldous, Peter Courts, Robert Hall, Luke Mangnall, Anthony Allan, Lucy Coutinho, Claire Hancock, rh Matt Mann, Scott Anderson, Lee Cox, rh Mr Geoffrey Hands, rh Greg Marson, Julie Anderson, Stuart Crabb, rh Stephen Harper, rh Mr Mark May, rh Mrs Theresa Andrew, Stuart Crosbie, Virginia Harris, Rebecca Mayhew, Jerome Ansell, Caroline Crouch, Tracey Harrison, Trudy Maynard, Paul Argar, Edward Daly, James Hart, Sally-Ann McCartney, Jason Atherton, Sarah Davies, David T. C. Hart, rh Simon McCartney, Karl Atkins, Victoria Davies, Gareth Hayes, rh Sir John McPartland, Stephen Bacon, Gareth Davies, Dr James Heald, rh Sir Oliver McVey, rh Esther Bacon, Mr Richard Davies, Mims Heappey, James Menzies, Mark Badenoch, Kemi Davies, Philip Heaton-Harris, Chris Mercer, Johnny Bailey, Shaun Davis, rh Mr David Henderson, Gordon Merriman, Huw Baillie, Siobhan Davison, Dehenna Henry, Darren Metcalfe, Stephen Baker, Duncan Dinenage, Caroline Higginbotham, Antony Millar, Robin Baker, Mr Steve Dines, Miss Sarah Hinds, rh Damian Miller, rh Mrs Maria Baldwin, Harriett Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Holden, Mr Richard Milling, rh Amanda Barclay, rh Steve Donelan, Michelle Hollinrake, Kevin Mills, Nigel Baron, Mr John Dorries, Ms Nadine Hollobone, Mr Philip Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Baynes, Simon Double, Steve Holloway, Adam Mohindra, Mr Gagan Bell, Aaron Dowden, rh Oliver Holmes, Paul Moore, Damien Benton, Scott Doyle-Price, Jackie Howell, John Moore, Robbie Beresford, Sir Paul Drax, Richard Howell, Paul Mordaunt, rh Penny Berry, rh Jake Drummond, Mrs Flick Huddleston, Nigel Morris, Anne Marie Bhatti, Saqib Duddridge, James Hudson, Dr Neil Morris, David Blackman, Bob Duguid, David Hughes, Eddie Morris, James Blunt, Crispin Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Hunt, Jane Morrissey, Joy Bone, Mr Peter Dunne, rh Philip Hunt, rh Jeremy Morton, Wendy Bowie, Andrew Eastwood, Mark Hunt, Tom Mullan, Dr Kieran Bradley, Ben Edwards, Ruth Jack, rh Mr Alister Mumby-Croft, Holly Bradley, rh Karen Ellis, rh Michael Javid, rh Sajid Murray, Mrs Sheryll Brady, Sir Graham Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Braverman, rh Suella Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jenkin, Sir Bernard Neill, Sir Robert Brereton, Jack Eustice, rh George Jenkinson, Mark Nici, Lia Evans, Dr Luke Bridgen, Andrew Jenkyns, Andrea Nokes, rh Caroline Evennett, rh Sir David Brine, Steve Jenrick, rh Robert Norman, rh Jesse Everitt, Ben O’Brien, Neil Bristow, Paul Johnson, Dr Caroline Fabricant, Michael Offord, Dr Matthew Britcliffe, Sara Johnson, Gareth Farris, Laura Parish, Neil Brokenshire, rh James Johnston, David Fell, Simon Patel, rh Priti Browne, Anthony Jones, Andrew Fletcher, Katherine Paterson, rh Mr Owen Jones, rh Mr David Bruce, Fiona Fletcher, Mark Pawsey, Mark Buchan, Felicity Fletcher, Nick Jones, Fay Penning, rh Sir Mike Buckland, rh Robert Ford, Vicky Jones, Mr Marcus Penrose, John Burghart, Alex Foster, Kevin Jupp, Simon Percy, Andrew Burns, rh Conor Francois, rh Mr Mark Kawczynski, Daniel Philp, Chris Butler, Rob Frazer, Lucy Kearns, Alicia Pincher, rh Christopher Cairns, rh Alun Freeman, George Keegan, Gillian Poulter, Dr Dan Carter, Andy Freer, Mike Knight, rh Sir Greg Pow, Rebecca Cartlidge, James Fuller, Richard Knight, Julian Prentis, Victoria Cash, Sir William Fysh, Mr Marcus Kruger, Danny Quin, Jeremy Cates, Miriam Gale, rh Sir Roger Lamont, John Quince, Will Caulfield, Maria Garnier, Mark Largan, Robert Raab, rh Dominic Chalk, Alex Ghani, Ms Nusrat Leadsom, rh Andrea Randall, Tom Chishti, Rehman Gibb, rh Nick Leigh, rh Sir Edward Redwood, rh John Churchill, Jo Gibson, Peter Levy, Ian Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Clark, rh Greg Gideon, Jo Lewer, Andrew Richards, Nicola Clarke, Mr Simon Gillan, rh Dame Cheryl Lewis, rh Brandon Richardson, Angela Clarke, Theo Glen, John Lewis, rh Dr Julian Roberts, Rob Clarke-Smith, Brendan Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Robertson, Mr Laurence Clarkson, Chris Gove, rh Michael Loder, Chris Robinson, Mary Cleverly, rh James Graham, Richard Logan, Mark Rosindell, Andrew 117 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 118

Ross, Douglas Tolhurst, Kelly Esterson, Bill McKinnell, Catherine Rowley, Lee Tomlinson, Justin Evans, Chris McMahon, Jim Russell, Dean Tomlinson, Michael Farron, Tim McMorrin, Anna Rutley, David Tracey, Craig Farry, Stephen Mearns, Ian Sambrook, Gary Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Fletcher, Colleen Miliband, rh Edward Saxby, Selaine Trott, Laura Fovargue, Yvonne Mishra, Navendu Scully, Paul Truss, rh Elizabeth Foxcroft, Vicky Moran, Layla Seely, Bob Tugendhat, Tom Foy, Mary Kelly Morgan, Stephen Selous, Andrew Vara, Mr Shailesh Furniss, Gill Morris, Grahame Sharma, rh Alok Vickers, Martin Gardiner, Barry Murray, Ian Shelbrooke, rh Alec Vickers, Matt Gill, Preet Kaur Murray, James Simmonds, David Villiers, rh Theresa Girvan, Paul Nichols, Charlotte Skidmore, rh Chris Wakeford, Christian Glindon, Mary Norris, Alex Smith, Chloe Walker, Sir Charles Green, Kate Olney, Sarah Smith, Greg Walker, Mr Robin Griffith, Nia Onwurah, Chi Smith, Henry Wallace, rh Mr Ben Gwynne, Andrew Oppong-Asare, Abena Smith, rh Julian Wallis, Dr Jamie Haigh, Louise Osamor, Kate Smith, Royston Warburton, David Hamilton, Fabian Osborne, Kate Solloway, Amanda Warman, Matt Hardy, Emma Owatemi, Taiwo Spencer, Dr Ben Watling, Giles Harman, rh Ms Harriet Owen, Sarah Spencer, rh Mark Webb, Suzanne Harris, Carolyn Paisley, Ian Stafford, Alexander Whately, Helen Hayes, Helen Peacock, Stephanie Stephenson, Andrew Wheeler, Mrs Heather Healey, rh John Pennycook, Matthew Stevenson, Jane Whittaker, Craig Hendrick, Sir Mark Perkins, Mr Toby Stevenson, John Whittingdale, rh Mr John Hill, Mike Phillips, Jess Stewart, Bob Wiggin, Bill Hillier, Meg Phillipson, Bridget Stewart, Iain Wild, James Hoare, Simon Pollard, Luke Streeter, Sir Gary Williams, Craig Hobhouse, Wera Powell, Lucy Stride, rh Mel Williamson, rh Gavin Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Qureshi, Yasmin Stuart, Graham Wood, Mike Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Rayner, Angela Sturdy, Julian Hollern, Kate Wright, rh Jeremy Reed, Steve Sunderland, James Hopkins, Rachel Rees, Christina Young, Jacob Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Howarth, rh Sir George Reynolds, Jonathan Zahawi, Nadhim Syms, Sir Robert Huq, Dr Rupa Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Thomas, Derek Tellers for the Ayes: Hussain, Imran Rimmer, Ms Marie Throup, Maggie Tom Pursglove and Jardine, Christine Robinson, Gavin Timpson, Edward Leo Docherty Jarvis, Dan Rodda, Matt Johnson, Dame Diana Russell-Moyle, Lloyd NOES Johnson, Kim Shah, Naz Jones, Darren Shannon, Jim Abbott, rh Ms Diane Charalambous, Bambos Jones, Gerald Sharma, Mr Virendra Abrahams, Debbie Clark, Feryal Jones, rh Mr Kevan Sheerman, Mr Barry Ali, Rushanara Cooper, Daisy Jones, Ruth Siddiq, Tulip Ali, Tahir Cooper, Rosie Jones, Sarah Slaughter, Andy Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Cooper, rh Yvette Kane, Mike Smith, Cat Amesbury, Mike Corbyn, rh Jeremy Keeley, Barbara Smith, Jeff Anderson, Fleur Coyle, Neil Kendall, Liz Smith, Nick Antoniazzi, Tonia Creasy, Stella Khan, Afzal Smyth, Karin Ashworth, Jonathan Cruddas, Jon Kinnock, Stephen Sobel, Alex Barker, Paula Cryer, John Kyle, Peter Spellar, rh John Beckett, rh Margaret Cummins, Judith Lavery, Ian Starmer, rh Keir Begum, Apsana Cunningham, Alex Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Stevens, Jo Benn, rh Hilary Daby, Janet Lewis, Clive Stone, Jamie Betts, Mr Clive Davey, rh Ed Lloyd, Tony Streeting, Wes Blake, Olivia David, Wayne Lockhart, Carla Sultana, Zarah Brabin, Tracy Davies, Geraint Long Bailey, Rebecca Tami, rh Mark Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Davies-Jones, Alex Lucas, Caroline Tarry, Sam Brennan, Kevin De Cordova, Marsha Lynch, Holly Thomas, Gareth Brown, Ms Lyn Debbonaire, Thangam Madders, Justin Thomas-Symonds, Nick Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Mahmood, Mr Khalid Thornberry, rh Emily Bryant, Chris Dodds, Anneliese Mahmood, Shabana Timms, rh Stephen Buck, Ms Karen Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Malhotra, Seema Trickett, Jon Burgon, Richard Doughty, Stephen Maskell, Rachael Turner, Karl Butler, Dawn Dowd, Peter Matheson, Christian Twigg, Derek Byrne, Ian Dromey, Jack McCabe, Steve Twist, Liz Byrne, rh Liam Eagle, Ms Angela McCarthy, Kerry Vaz, rh Valerie Cadbury, Ruth Eagle, Maria McDonagh, Siobhain Webbe, Claudia Campbell, rh Sir Alan Eastwood, Colum McDonald, Andy West, Catherine Carden, Dan Efford, Clive McDonnell, rh John Whitehead, Dr Alan Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Elliott, Julie McFadden, rh Mr Pat Whitley, Mick Chamberlain, Wendy Elmore, Chris McGinn, Conor Whittome, Nadia Champion, Sarah Eshalomi, Florence McGovern, Alison Wilson, Munira 119 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 120

Wilson, rh Sammy Tellers for the Noes: Duguid, David Jack, rh Mr Alister Winter, Beth Jessica Morden and Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Javid, rh Sajid Yasin, Mohammad Matt Western Eastwood, Mark Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Zeichner, Daniel Edwards, Ruth Jenkin, Sir Bernard Ellis, rh Michael Jenkinson, Mark Question accordingly agreed to. Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Jenkyns, Andrea Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Jenrick, rh Robert Lords amendment 11 disagreed to. Eustice, rh George Johnson, Dr Caroline The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Evans, Dr Luke Johnson, Gareth proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Evennett, rh Sir David Johnston, David proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Everitt, Ben Jones, Andrew Fabricant, Michael Jones, rh Mr David Lords amendment 12 disagreed to. Farris, Laura Jones, Fay Fell, Simon Jones, Mr Marcus After Clause 42 Fletcher, Katherine Jupp, Simon Fletcher, Mark Kawczynski, Daniel Fletcher, Nick Kearns, Alicia REQUIREMENT FOR AGRICULTURAL AND FOOD IMPORTS Ford, Vicky Keegan, Gillian TO MEET DOMESTIC STANDARDS Foster, Kevin Knight, rh Sir Greg Motion made, and Question put, That this House Francois, rh Mr Mark Knight, Julian disagrees with Lords amendment 16.—(Victoria Prentis.) Frazer, Lucy Kruger, Danny Freer, Mike Lamont, John The House divided: Ayes 332, Noes 279. Fuller, Richard Leadsom, rh Andrea Division No. 129] [9.16 pm Fysh, Mr Marcus Leigh, rh Sir Edward Garnier, Mark Levy, Ian AYES Ghani, Ms Nusrat Lewer, Andrew Gibb, rh Nick Lewis, rh Brandon Adams, Nigel Burns, rh Conor Gibson, Peter Lewis, rh Dr Julian Afolami, Bim Butler, Rob Gideon, Jo Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Afriyie, Adam Cairns, rh Alun Gillan, rh Dame Cheryl Loder, Chris Ahmad Khan, Imran Carter, Andy Glen, John Logan, Mark Aiken, Nickie Cartlidge, James Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Longhi, Marco Allan, Lucy Cash, Sir William Gove, rh Michael Lopez, Julia Anderson, Lee Cates, Miriam Graham, Richard Lopresti, Jack Anderson, Stuart Caulfield, Maria Grant, Mrs Helen Lord, Mr Jonathan Andrew, Stuart Chalk, Alex Gray, James Loughton, Tim Ansell, Caroline Chishti, Rehman Grayling, rh Chris Mackinlay, Craig Argar, Edward Churchill, Jo Green, Chris Mackrory, Cherilyn Atherton, Sarah Clark, rh Greg Green, rh Damian Maclean, Rachel Atkins, Victoria Clarke, Mr Simon Griffith, Andrew Mak, Alan Bacon, Gareth Clarke, Theo Griffiths, Kate Malthouse, Kit Bacon, Mr Richard Clarke-Smith, Brendan Grundy, James Mangnall, Anthony Badenoch, Kemi Clarkson, Chris Gullis, Jonathan Mann, Scott Bailey, Shaun Cleverly, rh James Halfon, rh Robert Marson, Julie Baillie, Siobhan Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Hall, Luke May, rh Mrs Theresa Baker, Duncan Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Hancock, rh Matt Mayhew, Jerome Baker, Mr Steve Colburn, Elliot Hands, rh Greg Maynard, Paul Baldwin, Harriett Collins, Damian Harper, rh Mr Mark McCartney, Karl Barclay, rh Steve Costa, Alberto Harris, Rebecca McVey, rh Esther Baron, Mr John Courts, Robert Harrison, Trudy Menzies, Mark Baynes, Simon Coutinho, Claire Hart, Sally-Ann Mercer, Johnny Bell, Aaron Cox, rh Mr Geoffrey Hart, rh Simon Merriman, Huw Benton, Scott Crabb, rh Stephen Hayes, rh Sir John Metcalfe, Stephen Beresford, Sir Paul Crosbie, Virginia Heald, rh Sir Oliver Millar, Robin Berry, rh Jake Daly, James Heappey, James Miller, rh Mrs Maria Bhatti, Saqib Davies, David T. C. Heaton-Harris, Chris Milling, rh Amanda Blackman, Bob Davies, Gareth Henderson, Gordon Mills, Nigel Blunt, Crispin Davies, Dr James Henry, Darren Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Bone, Mr Peter Davies, Mims Higginbotham, Antony Mohindra, Mr Gagan Bowie, Andrew Davies, Philip Hinds, rh Damian Moore, Damien Bradley, Ben Davis, rh Mr David Holden, Mr Richard Moore, Robbie Brady, Sir Graham Davison, Dehenna Braverman, rh Suella Dinenage, Caroline Hollinrake, Kevin Mordaunt, rh Penny Brereton, Jack Dines, Miss Sarah Hollobone, Mr Philip Morris, Anne Marie Bridgen, Andrew Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Holloway, Adam Morris, David Bristow, Paul Donelan, Michelle Holmes, Paul Morris, James Britcliffe, Sara Dorries, Ms Nadine Howell, John Morrissey, Joy Brokenshire, rh James Double, Steve Howell, Paul Morton, Wendy Browne, Anthony Dowden, rh Oliver Huddleston, Nigel Mullan, Dr Kieran Bruce, Fiona Doyle-Price, Jackie Hughes, Eddie Mumby-Croft, Holly Buchan, Felicity Drax, Richard Hunt, Jane Murray, Mrs Sheryll Buckland, rh Robert Drummond, Mrs Flick Hunt, rh Jeremy Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Burghart, Alex Duddridge, James Hunt, Tom Neill, Sir Robert 121 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 122

Nici, Lia Stevenson, Jane Carden, Dan Haigh, Louise Norman, rh Jesse Stevenson, John Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hamilton, Fabian O’Brien, Neil Stewart, Bob Chamberlain, Wendy Hanna, Claire Offord, Dr Matthew Stewart, Iain Champion, Sarah Hanvey, Neale Paisley, Ian Streeter, Sir Gary Chapman, Douglas Hardy, Emma Patel, rh Priti Stride, rh Mel Charalambous, Bambos Harman, rh Ms Harriet Paterson, rh Mr Owen Stuart, Graham Cherry, Joanna Harris, Carolyn Pawsey, Mark Sunderland, James Clark, Feryal Hayes, Helen Penning, rh Sir Mike Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Cooper, Daisy Healey, rh John Penrose, John Syms, Sir Robert Cooper, Rosie Hendrick, Sir Mark Percy, Andrew Thomas, Derek Cooper, rh Yvette Hendry, Drew Philp, Chris Throup, Maggie Corbyn, rh Jeremy Hill, Mike Pincher, rh Christopher Timpson, Edward Cowan, Ronnie Hillier, Meg Poulter, Dr Dan Tolhurst, Kelly Coyle, Neil Hoare, Simon Pow, Rebecca Tomlinson, Justin Crawley, Angela Hobhouse, Wera Prentis, Victoria Tomlinson, Michael Creasy, Stella Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Quin, Jeremy Tracey, Craig Crouch, Tracey Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Quince, Will Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Cruddas, Jon Hollern, Kate Raab, rh Dominic Trott, Laura Cryer, John Hopkins, Rachel Randall, Tom Truss, rh Elizabeth Cummins, Judith Hosie, Stewart Redwood, rh John Tugendhat, Tom Cunningham, Alex Howarth, rh Sir George Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Vara, Mr Shailesh Daby, Janet Hudson, Dr Neil Richards, Nicola Vickers, Martin Davey, rh Ed Huq, Dr Rupa Richardson, Angela David, Wayne Hussain, Imran Vickers, Matt Roberts, Rob Davies, Geraint Jardine, Christine Wakeford, Christian Robertson, Mr Laurence Davies-Jones, Alex Jarvis, Dan Walker, Sir Charles Robinson, Gavin Day, Martyn Johnson, Dame Diana Walker, Mr Robin Robinson, Mary De Cordova, Marsha Johnson, Kim Rosindell, Andrew Wallace, rh Mr Ben Debbonaire, Thangam Jones, Darren Rowley, Lee Wallis, Dr Jamie Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Jones, Gerald Russell, Dean Warburton, David Docherty-Hughes, Martin Jones, rh Mr Kevan Rutley, David Warman, Matt Dodds, Anneliese Jones, Ruth Sambrook, Gary Watling, Giles Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Jones, Sarah Saxby, Selaine Webb, Suzanne Doogan, Dave Kane, Mike Scully, Paul Whately, Helen Dorans, Allan Keeley, Barbara Seely, Bob Wheeler, Mrs Heather Doughty, Stephen Kendall, Liz Selous, Andrew Whittaker, Craig Dowd, Peter Khan, Afzal Sharma, rh Alok Whittingdale, rh Mr John Dromey, Jack Kinnock, Stephen Shelbrooke, rh Alec Wiggin, Bill Eagle, Ms Angela Kyle, Peter Simmonds, David Wild, James Eagle, Maria Lake, Ben Skidmore, rh Chris Williams, Craig Eastwood, Colum Lammy, rh Mr David Smith, Chloe Williamson, rh Gavin Edwards, Jonathan Lavery, Ian Smith, Greg Wilson, rh Sammy Efford, Clive Law, Chris Smith, rh Julian Wood, Mike Elliott, Julie Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Smith, Royston Elmore, Chris Lewis, Clive Young, Jacob Solloway, Amanda Eshalomi, Florence Linden, David Zahawi, Nadhim Spencer, Dr Ben Esterson, Bill Lloyd, Tony Spencer, rh Mark Tellers for the Ayes: Evans, Chris Lockhart, Carla Stafford, Alexander Tom Pursglove and Farron, Tim Long Bailey, Rebecca Stephenson, Andrew Leo Docherty Farry, Stephen Lucas, Caroline Fellows, Marion Lynch, Holly NOES Ferrier, Margaret MacAskill, Kenny Fletcher, Colleen MacNeil, Angus Brendan Abbott, rh Ms Diane Blake, Olivia Flynn, Stephen Madders, Justin Abrahams, Debbie Bonnar, Steven Fovargue, Yvonne Mahmood, Mr Khalid Aldous, Peter Brabin, Tracy Foxcroft, Vicky Mahmood, Shabana Ali, Rushanara Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Foy, Mary Kelly Malhotra, Seema Ali, Tahir Brennan, Kevin Freeman, George Maskell, Rachael Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Brock, Deidre Furniss, Gill Matheson, Christian Amesbury, Mike Brown, Alan Gale, rh Sir Roger Mc Nally, John Anderson, Fleur Brown, Ms Lyn Gardiner, Barry McCabe, Steve Antoniazzi, Tonia Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Gibson, Patricia McCarthy, Kerry Ashworth, Jonathan Bryant, Chris Gill, Preet Kaur McCartney, Jason Bardell, Hannah Buck, Ms Karen Girvan, Paul McDonagh, Siobhain Barker, Paula Burgon, Richard Glindon, Mary McDonald, Andy Beckett, rh Margaret Butler, Dawn Grady, Patrick McDonald, Stewart Malcolm Begum, Apsana Byrne, Ian Grant, Peter McDonald, Stuart C. Benn, rh Hilary Byrne, rh Liam Gray, Neil McDonnell, rh John Betts, Mr Clive Cadbury, Ruth Green, Kate McFadden, rh Mr Pat Black, Mhairi Callaghan, Amy Greenwood, Margaret McGinn, Conor Blackford, rh Ian Cameron, Dr Lisa Griffith, Nia McGovern, Alison Blackman, Kirsty Campbell, rh Sir Alan Gwynne, Andrew McKinnell, Catherine 123 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 124

McLaughlin, Anne Sheerman, Mr Barry Allan, Lucy Davies, David T. C. McMahon, Jim Sheppard, Tommy Anderson, Lee Davies, Gareth McMorrin, Anna Siddiq, Tulip Anderson, Stuart Davies, Dr James McPartland, Stephen Slaughter, Andy Andrew, Stuart Davies, Mims Mearns, Ian Smith, Alyn Ansell, Caroline Davies, Philip Miliband, rh Edward Smith, Cat Argar, Edward Davis, rh Mr David Mishra, Navendu Smith, Henry Atherton, Sarah Davison, Dehenna Monaghan, Carol Smith, Jeff Atkins, Victoria Dinenage, Caroline Moran, Layla Smith, Nick Bacon, Gareth Dines, Miss Sarah Morgan, Stephen Smyth, Karin Bacon, Mr Richard Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Morris, Grahame Sobel, Alex Badenoch, Kemi Donelan, Michelle Murray, Ian Spellar, rh John Bailey, Shaun Dorries, Ms Nadine Murray, James Starmer, rh Keir Baillie, Siobhan Double, Steve Newlands, Gavin Stephens, Chris Baker, Duncan Dowden, rh Oliver Nichols, Charlotte Stevens, Jo Baker, Mr Steve Doyle-Price, Jackie Nicolson, John Stone, Jamie Baldwin, Harriett Drax, Richard Nokes, rh Caroline Streeting, Wes Barclay, rh Steve Drummond, Mrs Flick Norris, Alex Sturdy, Julian Baron, Mr John Duddridge, James O’Hara, Brendan Sultana, Zarah Baynes, Simon Duguid, David Olney, Sarah Tami, rh Mark Bell, Aaron Duncan Smith, rh Sir Iain Onwurah, Chi Tarry, Sam Benton, Scott Dunne, rh Philip Oppong-Asare, Abena Thewliss, Alison Beresford, Sir Paul Eastwood, Mark Osamor, Kate Thomas, Gareth Berry, rh Jake Edwards, Ruth Osborne, Kate Thomas-Symonds, Nick Bhatti, Saqib Ellis, rh Michael Oswald, Kirsten Thompson, Owen Blackman, Bob Ellwood, rh Mr Tobias Owatemi, Taiwo Thomson, Richard Blunt, Crispin Elphicke, Mrs Natalie Owen, Sarah Thornberry, rh Emily Bone, Mr Peter Eustice, rh George Paisley, Ian Timms, rh Stephen Bowie, Andrew Evans, Dr Luke Parish, Neil Trickett, Jon Bradley, Ben Evennett, rh Sir David Peacock, Stephanie Turner, Karl Bradley, rh Karen Everitt, Ben Pennycook, Matthew Twigg, Derek Brady, Sir Graham Fabricant, Michael Perkins, Mr Toby Twist, Liz Braverman, rh Suella Farris, Laura Phillips, Jess Vaz, rh Valerie Brereton, Jack Fell, Simon Phillipson, Bridget Villiers, rh Theresa Bridgen, Andrew Fletcher, Katherine Pollard, Luke Webbe, Claudia Brine, Steve Fletcher, Mark Powell, Lucy West, Catherine Bristow, Paul Fletcher, Nick Qureshi, Yasmin Whitehead, Dr Alan Britcliffe, Sara Ford, Vicky Rayner, Angela Whitford, Dr Philippa Brokenshire, rh James Foster, Kevin Reed, Steve Whitley, Mick Browne, Anthony Francois, rh Mr Mark Rees, Christina Whittome, Nadia Bruce, Fiona Frazer, Lucy Reynolds, Jonathan Williams, Hywel Buchan, Felicity Freeman, George Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Wilson, Munira Buckland, rh Robert Freer, Mike Rimmer, Ms Marie Wilson, rh Sammy Burghart, Alex Fuller, Richard Robinson, Gavin Winter, Beth Burns, rh Conor Fysh, Mr Marcus Rodda, Matt Wishart, Pete Butler, Rob Gale, rh Sir Roger Ross, Douglas Cairns, rh Alun Garnier, Mark Yasin, Mohammad Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Carter, Andy Ghani, Ms Nusrat Zeichner, Daniel Saville Roberts, rh Liz Cartlidge, James Gibb, rh Nick Shah, Naz Tellers for the Noes: Cash, Sir William Gibson, Peter Shannon, Jim Jessica Morden and Cates, Miriam Gideon, Jo Sharma, Mr Virendra Matt Western Caulfield, Maria Gillan, rh Dame Cheryl Chalk, Alex Glen, John Question accordingly agreed to. Chishti, Rehman Goodwill, rh Mr Robert Churchill, Jo Gove, rh Michael Lords amendment 16 disagreed to. Clark, rh Greg Graham, Richard The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a Clarke, Mr Simon Grant, Mrs Helen proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Clarke, Theo Gray, James proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. Clarke-Smith, Brendan Grayling, rh Chris Clarkson, , Chris After Clause 42 Cleverly, rh James Green, rh Damian Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey Griffith, Andrew CONTRIBUTION OF AGRICULTURE AND ASSOCIATED Coffey, rh Dr Thérèse Griffiths, Kate LAND USE TO CLIMATE CHANGE TARGETS Colburn, Elliot Grundy, James Motion made, and Question put, That this House Collins, Damian Gullis, Jonathan disagrees with Lords amendment 17.—(Victoria Prentis.) Costa, Alberto Halfon, rh Robert The House divided: Ayes 344, Noes 206. Courts, Robert Hall, Luke Division No. 130] [9.32 pm Coutinho, Claire Hands, rh Greg Cox, rh Mr Geoffrey Harper, rh Mr Mark AYES Crabb, rh Stephen Harris, Rebecca Adams, Nigel Ahmad Khan, Imran Crosbie, Virginia Harrison, Trudy Afolami, Bim Aiken, Nickie Crouch, Tracey Hart, Sally-Ann Afriyie, Adam Aldous, Peter Daly, James Hart, rh Simon 125 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 Agriculture Bill 126

Hayes, rh Sir John Menzies, Mark Stafford, Alexander Vickers, Matt Heald, rh Sir Oliver Mercer, Johnny Stephenson, Andrew Villiers, rh Theresa Heappey, James Merriman, Huw Stevenson, Jane Wakeford, Christian Heaton-Harris, Chris Metcalfe, Stephen Stevenson, John Walker, Sir Charles Henderson, Gordon Millar, Robin Stewart, Bob Walker, Mr Robin Henry, Darren Miller, rh Mrs Maria Stewart, Iain Wallace, rh Mr Ben Higginbotham, Antony Milling, rh Amanda Streeter, Sir Gary Wallis, Dr Jamie Hinds, rh Damian Mills, Nigel Stride, rh Mel Warburton, David Holden, Mr Richard Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stuart, Graham Warman, Matt Hollinrake, Kevin Mohindra, Mr Gagan Sturdy, Julian Watling, Giles Hollobone, Mr Philip Moore, Damien Sunderland, James Webb, Suzanne Holloway, Adam Moore, Robbie Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Whately, Helen Holmes, Paul Mordaunt, rh Penny Syms, Sir Robert Wheeler, Mrs Heather Howell, John Morris, Anne Marie Thomas, Derek Whittaker, Craig Howell, Paul Morris, David Throup, Maggie Whittingdale, rh Mr John Huddleston, Nigel Morris, James Timpson, Edward Wiggin, Bill Hudson, Dr Neil Morrissey, Joy Tolhurst, Kelly Wild, James Hughes, Eddie Morton, Wendy Tomlinson, Justin Williams, Craig Hunt, Jane Mullan, Dr Kieran Tomlinson, Michael Williamson, rh Gavin Hunt, rh Jeremy Mumby-Croft, Holly Tracey, Craig Wood, Mike Hunt, Tom Murray, Mrs Sheryll Trevelyan, rh Anne-Marie Wright, rh Jeremy Jack, rh Mr Alister Murrison, rh Dr Andrew Trott, Laura Young, Jacob Javid, rh Sajid Neill, Sir Robert Truss, rh Elizabeth Zahawi, Nadhim Jayawardena, Mr Ranil Nici, Lia Tugendhat, Tom Tellers for the Ayes: Jenkin, Sir Bernard Nokes, rh Caroline Vara, Mr Shailesh Tom Pursglove and Jenkinson, Mark Norman, rh Jesse Vickers, Martin Leo Docherty Jenkyns, Andrea O’Brien, Neil Jenrick, rh Robert Offord, Dr Matthew Johnson, Dr Caroline Parish, Neil NOES Johnson, Gareth Paterson, rh Mr Owen Abbott, rh Ms Diane Cunningham, Alex Johnston, David Pawsey, Mark Abrahams, Debbie Daby, Janet Jones, Andrew Penning, rh Sir Mike Ali, Rushanara Davey, rh Ed Jones, rh Mr David Penrose, John Ali, Tahir David, Wayne Jones, Fay Percy, Andrew Allin-Khan, Dr Rosena Davies, Geraint Jones, Mr Marcus Philp, Chris Amesbury, Mike Davies-Jones, Alex Jupp, Simon Pincher, rh Christopher Anderson, Fleur De Cordova, Marsha Kawczynski, Daniel Poulter, Dr Dan Antoniazzi, Tonia Debbonaire, Thangam Kearns, Alicia Pow, Rebecca Ashworth, Jonathan Dhesi, Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Keegan, Gillian Prentis, Victoria Barker, Paula Dodds, Anneliese Knight, rh Sir Greg Quin, Jeremy Beckett, rh Margaret Doughty, Stephen Knight, Julian Quince, Will Begum, Apsana Dowd, Peter Kruger, Danny Raab, rh Dominic Benn, rh Hilary Dromey, Jack Lamont, John Randall, Tom Betts, Mr Clive Eagle, Ms Angela Largan, Robert Redwood, rh John Blake, Olivia Eagle, Maria Leadsom, rh Andrea Rees-Mogg, rh Mr Jacob Brabin, Tracy Efford, Clive Leigh, rh Sir Edward Richards, Nicola Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Elliott, Julie Levy, Ian Richardson, Angela Brennan, Kevin Elmore, Chris Lewer, Andrew Roberts, Rob Brown, Ms Lyn Eshalomi, Florence Lewis, rh Brandon Robertson, Mr Laurence Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Esterson, Bill Lewis, rh Dr Julian Robinson, Mary Bryant, Chris Evans, Chris Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Rosindell, Andrew Buck, Ms Karen Farron, Tim Loder, Chris Ross, Douglas Burgon, Richard Farry, Stephen Logan, Mark Rowley, Lee Butler, Dawn Fletcher, Colleen Longhi, Marco Russell, Dean Byrne, Ian Fovargue, Yvonne Lopez, Julia Rutley, David Byrne, rh Liam Foxcroft, Vicky Lopresti, Jack Sambrook, Gary Cadbury, Ruth Foy, Mary Kelly Lord, Mr Jonathan Saxby, Selaine Campbell, rh Sir Alan Gardiner, Barry Loughton, Tim Scully, Paul Carden, Dan Gill, Preet Kaur Mackinlay, Craig Seely, Bob Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Glindon, Mary Mackrory, Cherilyn Selous, Andrew Chamberlain, Wendy Green, Kate Maclean, Rachel Sharma, rh Alok Champion, Sarah Greenwood, Margaret Mak, Alan Shelbrooke, rh Alec Charalambous, Bambos Griffith, Nia Malthouse, Kit Simmonds, David Clark, Feryal Gwynne, Andrew Mangnall, Anthony Skidmore, rh Chris Cooper, Daisy Hamilton, Fabian Mann, Scott Smith, Chloe Cooper, Rosie Hardy, Emma Marson, Julie Smith, Greg Cooper, rh Yvette Harman, rh Ms Harriet May, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Henry Corbyn, rh Jeremy Harris, Carolyn Mayhew, Jerome Smith, rh Julian Coyle, Neil Hayes, Helen Maynard, Paul Smith, Royston Creasy, Stella Healey, rh John McCartney, Karl Solloway, Amanda Cruddas, Jon Hendrick, Sir Mark McPartland, Stephen Spencer, Dr Ben Cryer, John Hill, Mike McVey, rh Esther Spencer, rh Mark Cummins, Judith Hillier, Meg 127 Agriculture Bill 12 OCTOBER 2020 128

Hoare, Simon Oppong-Asare, Abena 18, which would establish a Trade and Agriculture Hobhouse, Wera Osamor, Kate Commission. Mr Speaker is satisfied that it would Hodge, rh Dame Margaret Osborne, Kate impose a charge on the public revenue which is not Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Owatemi, Taiwo authorised by the money resolution passed by this Hollern, Kate Owen, Sarah House on 3 February. In accordance with paragraph (3) Hopkins, Rachel Peacock, Stephanie of Standing Order No. 78, Lords amendment 18 is Howarth, rh Sir George Pennycook, Matthew Huq, Dr Rupa Perkins, Mr Toby therefore deemed to be disagreed to. Hussain, Imran Phillips, Jess Lords amendment 18 deemed to be disagreed to (Standing Jardine, Christine Phillipson, Bridget Order No. 78(3)). Jarvis, Dan Pollard, Luke Lords amendments 2 to 8 agreed to, with Commons Johnson, Dame Diana Powell, Lucy financial privileges waived in respect of Lords amendments 3 Johnson, Kim Qureshi, Yasmin and 4. Jones, Darren Rayner, Angela Jones, Gerald Reed, Steve Lords amendment 10 agreed to. Jones, rh Mr Kevan Rees, Christina Lords amendments 13 to 15 agreed to. Jones, Ruth Reynolds, Jonathan Jones, Sarah Ribeiro-Addy, Bell Lords amendments 19 to 46 agreed to, with Commons Kane, Mike Rimmer, Ms Marie financial privileges waived in respect of Lords amendment 30. Keeley, Barbara Rodda, Matt Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Kendall, Liz Russell-Moyle, Lloyd Order No. 83H), That a Committee be appointed to Khan, Afzal Shah, Naz drawup Reasons to be assigned to the Lords for disagreeing Kinnock, Stephen Sharma, Mr Virendra to their amendments 1, 9, 11, 12, 16, 17 and 18. Kyle, Peter Sheerman, Mr Barry Lammy, rh Mr David Siddiq, Tulip That Victoria Prentis, James Morris, Fay Jones, Lavery, Ian Slaughter, Andy Gary Sambrook, Luke Pollard, Gill Furniss and Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma Smith, Cat Deidre Brock be members of the Committee; Lewis, Clive Smith, Jeff That Victoria Prentis be the Chair of the Committee; Lloyd, Tony Smith, Nick That three be the quorum of the Committee. Long Bailey, Rebecca Smyth, Karin Lucas, Caroline Sobel, Alex That the Committee do withdraw immediately.— Lynch, Holly Spellar, rh John (Maria Caulfield.) Madders, Justin Starmer, rh Keir Question agreed to. Mahmood, Mr Khalid Stevens, Jo Mahmood, Shabana Stone, Jamie Committee to withdraw immediately; reasons to be Malhotra, Seema Streeting, Wes reported and communicated to the Lords. Maskell, Rachael Sultana, Zarah Matheson, Christian Tami, rh Mark Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): I McCabe, Steve Tarry, Sam ought to have mentioned before the withdrawal of the McCarthy, Kerry Thomas, Gareth Committee that in order to observe social distancing McDonagh, Siobhain Thomas-Symonds, Nick the Reasons Committee will meet in Committee Room 12. McDonald, Andy Thornberry, rh Emily McDonnell, rh John Timms, rh Stephen McFadden, rh Mr Pat Trickett, Jon Business without Debate McGinn, Conor Turner, Karl McGovern, Alison Twigg, Derek McKinnell, Catherine Twist, Liz McMahon, Jim Vaz, rh Valerie DELEGATED LEGISLATION McMorrin, Anna Webbe, Claudia Mearns, Ian West, Catherine Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): With Miliband, rh Edward Whitehead, Dr Alan the leave of the House, we shall take motions 3 and 4 Mishra, Navendu Whitley, Mick together. Moran, Layla Whittome, Nadia Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Morgan, Stephen Wilson, Munira Morris, Grahame Order No. 118(6)), Winter, Beth Murray, Ian Yasin, Mohammad Murray, James Zeichner, Daniel Nichols, Charlotte EXITING THE EUROPEAN UNION (ELECTRICITY) Norris, Alex Tellers for the Noes: That the draft Electricity (Risk-Preparedness) (Amendment Olney, Sarah Jessica Morden and etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this Onwurah, Chi Matt Western House on 17 September, be approved.

Question accordingly agreed to. EXITING THE EUROPEAN UNION (HEALTH CARE AND Lords amendment 17 disagreed to. ASSOCIATED PROFESSIONS) The list of Members currently certified as eligible for a That the draft European Qualifications (Health and Social proxy vote, and of the Members nominated as their Care Professions) (EFTA States) (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this House on 17 September, proxy, is published at the end of today’s debates. be approved.—(Maria Caulfield.) Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Eleanor Laing): As Question agreed to. Mr Deputy Speaker informed the House earlier,Mr Speaker Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing has given careful consideration to Lords amendment Order No. 118(6)), 129 Business without Debate 12 OCTOBER 2020 130

DEBT MANAGEMENT AND RELIEF Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent That the draft Debt Respite Scheme (Breathing Space Moratorium Care Services and Mental Health Crisis Moratorium) (England and Wales) Regulations 2020, which were laid before this House on 9 September, Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House be approved.—(Maria Caulfield.) do now adjourn.—(Maria Caulfield.) Question agreed to. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing 9.51 pm Order No. 118(6)), Fleur Anderson (Putney) (Lab): I am grateful that Mr Speaker has granted this debate, and to the Minister CRIMINAL LAW for Health, the hon. Member for Charnwood (Edward That the Criminal Procedure and Investigations Act 1996 Argar), for taking time out of his schedule to respond (Code of Practice) Order 2020, dated 9 September 2020, a copy of to it. This issue is of huge concern to my constituents, which was laid before this House on 10 September, be approved.— as I am sure he can understand. More than 300 of them (Maria Caulfield.) have signed my petition just this past week, and many Question agreed to. have been in touch with me to explain how important the issue of urgent care services at Queen Mary’s Hospital is to them. COMMITTEES I have called for this debate and am standing here Ordered, today because I really value our local hospitals and all the work that the fantastic staff have done during this ENVIRONMENTAL AUDIT COMMITTEE pandemic to care for us, to endlessly adapt systems and That Mr Shailesh Vara be discharged from the Environmental services and to save lives. I take this opportunity to Audit Committee and Cherilyn Mackrory be added.—(Bill Wiggin, thank the NHS managers, doctors, nurses, cleaners and on behalf of the Committee of Selection.) support staff for all that they do. It is because I, and Ordered, local residents, value our local hospital so much that I ask the Minister to support the reopening of the urgent PETITIONS COMMITTEE treatment centre and the pharmacy for out-patients That Steve Double be discharged from the Petitions Committee before the winter and the increasing demand begins. It and Jonathan Gullis be added.—(Bill Wiggin, on behalf of the is really important that it is a walk-in treatment centre Committee of Selection.) that does not require bookings. Allow me to provide some context for the Minister. In August 1997, Queen Mary’s Hospital, which is in Roehampton, ended its A&E service, and has since had a minor injuries unit, which the trust gave a gold-standard accreditation in November last year. So there is no A&E service in my constituency. The minor injuries unit was upgraded to an urgent treatment centre, with a GP added to the excellent nurse practitioner staff, earlier this year. In a normal year, the centre serves 16,000 to 18,000 people, so it is a vital service in our community. During the peak of the pandemic, the decision was taken to temporarily close the service because of a lack of space for social distancing and to be able to adhere to Government guidelines, and also to move the staff to other areas that needed them more. The pharmacy for out-patients has only recently been closed, and at very short notice. Of course I understand, as do local residents, that changes had to made and that health services had to adapt. I fully appreciate that our NHS managers had to make some extremely difficult decisions on service provision as they faced the prospect of being overwhelmed, which they are now facing again, with the second wave. The continued closure makes us in Roehampton feel overlooked, and it is putting additional pressures on NHS services at Teddington, the walk-in centre at Kingston, St George’s Hospital A&E and local GP surgeries. I am concerned that this will cause untold long-term damage to the health and wellbeing of our community. I have been asked, “What about the person with the dislocated shoulder, the chest pain, the allergic reaction?” They all need to be assessed and stabilised urgently, but at the moment they are being turned away. I have met the chief executive of the hospital trust and raised these issues. I asked her to assure me that the centre would be reopened as soon as it was safe to do so, but she has not confirmed when it will reopen, if at all. That is very 131 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 12 OCTOBER 2020 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 132 Care Services Care Services [Fleur Anderson] Increased demand for overstretched GP surgeries with finite resources ultimately means fewer local people’s worrying. I hope to hear from the Minister this evening conditions or illnesses receiving treatment, and even that he will support the trust in making plans to reopen more concerningly, serious and urgent illnesses such as the walk-in urgent treatment centre. cancer being missed and going undiagnosed. It is cancer I would like briefly to explain the impacts that the diagnosis that I am particularly concerned about. As closure is having on local people. Anyone who goes to the Minister knows, lots of cancers are diagnosed when where the minor injuries unit used to be is asked to travel people present at hospital with a symptom. With the far away to the Teddington walk-in centre, to Kingston doors of the urgent treatment centre still closed, many A&E or to St George’s A&E in Tooting. Those bus cancers that might otherwise have been spotted will journeys can take an hour, which can result in painful have been missed. journeys or in many people not making the journey, not being seen and not being treated. I am sure the Minister 10 pm will agree that an hour on public transport is an Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 9(3)). unacceptably long journey time when there is a really Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House good hospital right there in Roehampton, but it is just do now adjourn.—(Maria Caulfield.) not open for walk-in urgent care. One of my constituents wrote to me this week to say: Fleur Anderson: Many cancers will be missed if people “I took my elderly father, who is nearly 90 years old, to Queen cannot go to the urgent care centre and are redirected to Mary’s just over a month ago, because he had cut his fingers quite other facilities, because there is a real concern that they badly and they were bleeding. The kind staff there had helped us are not making that journey. when my father had a similar problem last year and they knew how to bandage his fingers because he has very thin skin…Because According to Breast Cancer Now, the importance of the Centre was closed, we had to go all the way to Kingston GP referrals and of the NHS breast screening programme Hospital which was quite stressful. While his treatment there was to breast cancer survival cannot be underestimated. good, it would have been far easier if we could have gone However, the number of people referred to see a specialist somewhere more local to him as my father isn’t used to travelling with suspected cancer declined dramatically during the that far.” peak of the coronavirus outbreak. In England, between Also, some patients are unable to travel or should not March and July this year, there were 95,000 fewer travel. An example is patients with diabetic foot ulcers, referrals by a GP for tests. who should keep their activity to a minimum to allow Prostate cancer is also of real concern. This cancer ulcers to heal. At the same time, if they have an infection, claims the life of one man every 45 minutes in the UK. it needs treating immediately as it could deteriorate Early diagnosis, as I know from my own family, really rapidly leading to the need for amputation. That is one does save lives. The impact of covid-19 has meant that group of patients who are not getting the care they need around 3,500 men in the UK risk being diagnosed with because the urgent treatment centre and the pharmacy last-stage,incurable prostate cancer.With GP appointments are not open. There is an obvious health risk to people often hard to get, urgent care centres such as the one at needing to travel further if they are seriously ill. Queen Mary’s Hospital are very important in spotting There is also an increased risk of covid infection signs of cancer early on. The prolonged closures of through asking people to travel greater distances by urgent care centres are accelerating the crisis in cancer public transport during the pandemic, especially when care. Cancer and other serious diseases will not wait they are unwell or chronically ill. They could have an for the covid-19 crisis to abate—they will not wait until underlying condition, which might be the reason they the winter is over—before taking lives again. We cannot are going to the urgent care centre in the first place. lose sight of this. We cannot risk the lives of local That would make them more susceptible to the effects people. of covid-19. Closing the pharmacy is having the effect In summary, the urgent treatment centre and pharmacy of delaying patients receiving treatment, as they are at Queen Mary’s Hospital is a very valued and valuable now being referred to their GP by the clinics. If they local health service with fantastic staff. I understand cannot immediately get an appointment with their GP, that it had to close and that difficult decisions had to be this can lead to delays of up to 48 hours before starting made, but for too long, people in Roehampton, Putney their treatment. That is another impact. and Southfields needing urgent care have been sent There is also a knock-on effect on services in other away. That is leading to some people going untreated places. The fact that 16,000 to 18,000 people a year used and others suffering on long journeys, and it is adding to be treated at Queen Mary’s is putting pressure on to the pressure on A&E services at Kingston Hospital St George’s and Kingston, along with the increasing and St George’s Hospital in Tooting. It is time to stop demand at the moment. GP surgery appointments are sending people with dislocated shoulders, deep cuts, already at a premium, and this demand will only worsen chest pains or severe allergic reactions to places an hour as the difficult winter months approach. Even before away when we have a great hospital with great urgent the pandemic, it was reported that over 11 million care nurses in our own community.Weneed the out-patient patients had to wait more than 21 days for a GP pharmacy to provide medications for treatment as soon appointment. In my constituency, there are 14 main as they are needed. There is more demand than ever for surgeries and three branch practices. My team has a walk-in service at the urgent treatment centre, which called round all the local GP services. Several are still used to treat 16,000 to 18,000 people a year. My ask of only doing appointments over Zoom, and in one local the Minister is simple: will he do everything in his medical centre, a member of staff begged for the urgent power to reopen the urgent treatment centre with walk-in care centre to reopen due to the pressure its closure is capacity and the out-patient pharmacy at Queen Mary’s causing for GP surgeries. Hospital before the winter begins? 133 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 12 OCTOBER 2020 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 134 Care Services Care Services 10.3 pm The hon. Lady highlighted not only the urgent treatment centre but its role in helping early diagnosis and treatment The Minister for Health (Edward Argar): I congratulate of cancers. I completely understand and recognise her the hon. Member for Putney (Fleur Anderson) on concerns about the impact of the pandemic on cancer securing this debate on an issue that is important to her services and the importance of ensuring that cancers do constituents and more widely across south London and not go undiagnosed. The NHS is working to restore the on her typically reasonable and measured tone in putting full operation of all cancer services, with local delivery her constituents’ case so clearly and firmly. As she did, I plans being delivered by cancer alliances. Systems will be pay tribute to the staff at Queen Mary’s, St George’s working with GPs and the public locally to increase the University Hospitals NHS Foundation Trust and across number of people coming forward and being referred our entire NHS for the amazing work they do day in, with suspected cancer to at least pre-pandemic levels—I will day out, but particularly during this pandemic. Thanks come on to the performance of her local trust in a moment. to their dedication and their response to the public health measures and restrictions, which have been difficult To support that, systems will help to ensure sufficient for many people, the NHS was not overwhelmed during diagnostic capacity in covid-19-secure environments, the first covid wave, and we have put in place measures through the use of independent sector facilities and the to prevent that from happening in a second wave. development of community diagnostic hubs and a rapid diagnostic centre. The hon. Lady is right to highlight As the hon. Lady said, coronavirus has brought that diagnostic capability is a considerable challenge, challenges and forced us all to do things differently to not least because, to put it perhaps a little bluntly, many manage the pandemic, protect the NHS and save lives. diagnostic tests are very close and personal, and the There is no doubt that it has led to rapid changes in the equipment used is intimate in terms of looking inside way that health and care services are delivered, as the human body. The cleaning and infection control providers have refocused their efforts on tackling the measures that are necessary between each patient make pandemic, but also on providing services in a safe way it challenging to see as many patients as would have for other service users. But it is important that these been the case before the pandemic. changes are temporary and that the NHS is working to reopen services as soon as it is safe to do so. She said The cancer recovery taskforce met in September to that she hopes her constituents in Roehampton will not review the status of cancer services against recovery be overlooked in this place and I suspect that, as long as metrics and a national recovery plan is being developed she is a Member of this House, they certainly will for publication shortly. In respect of the hon. Lady’s not be. particular trust—I am afraid that I have only the figures The hon. Lady was right to highlight the importance for the overall St George’s trust, which I hope will none of local services so local people can access services the less be useful—referrals in August for cancer treatment, easily,without transport or other challenges.It is regrettable as I understand it, were twice as high as they were in that the urgent treatment centre at Queen Mary’s Hospital April, so a lot of work is being done to pick that up. On remains closed. I know that that decision was not taken the basis of the latest figures that I have, which I think lightly by the trust. It was taken on clinical advice by the are for August, the trust saw 87.8% of people within the trust to protect the safety of patients, staff and the two-week target and 94.5% of those referred for treatment public. I believe it has been closed since 30 March this received that treatment within 31 days. So I put it on the year. As she succinctly put it, the issue is due to the record that, in very difficult circumstances, her trust is requirements of social distancing and the critical importance doing a very good job to bring those services back into of infection prevention and control. Therefore, given operation. the configuration of the centre, and its walk-in aspect, it It is important that we continue to advise people to could not operate as it did before the pandemic. It is not contact their GP or to seek the help they need about a able easily to segregate patients with respiratory problems, symptom that could be cancer or that could represent a treat them with dedicated staff, or maintain the necessary risk. The hon. Lady is right that it is important that, distancing. when people do need help, they are able to access that I am conscious that the trust has yet to set out a firm GP service and get the advice that they need. commitment to a reopening date, but I join the hon. I turn to cancer screening, which I know is something Lady in saying that I hope it will set out its future plans that, although the hon. Lady did not mention it specifically, as soon as possible. I am conscious that she has met the is relevant to that diagnostic capability and capacity. In trust’s chief executive, Jacqueline Totterdell, to discuss some areas, providers of screening services did reschedule these issues and plans for the reopening of the urgent invitations or appointments to a later date, again to treatment centre. Although that reopening date is still address infection control risks, but cancer screening to be confirmed, I understand that the trust and local services as well are now being restored as swiftly as it is commissioners are undertaking work to agree a new safe to do so. I spoke to the Under-Secretary of State covid-secure model of care before reopening, which is for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member the right approach. for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), who has responsibility My offer to the hon. Lady is twofold and I hope it for, among other things, breast cancer screening services, will be helpful. First, I am happy to raise the issue and I think that something like—I may not have the directly with the chief executive of the trust to consider exact figure—80% to 85% of the backlog has now been both timescales and a date for the reopening. Secondly, caught up in recent months. It is important that we if she feels it would be useful, I am happy to ask my sustain that improvement and that the hon. Lady’s office to get in touch with her and arrange to meet her constituents see that improvement. in a slightly less formal environment than this Chamber, As the country continues to deal with covid, I want to to discuss in more detail the urgent treatment centre reassure the hon. Lady that the Government are committed and the pharmacy, which I will come to in a moment. to providing and ensuring access to high-quality care 135 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 12 OCTOBER 2020 Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent 136 Care Services Care Services [Edward Argar] broadly as well. However, I recognise her concerns about Roehampton, which is why I am happy to meet that meets the needs of people across England, irrespective her. of where they live. She is absolutely right that it is vital I simply reiterate that I share the hon. Lady’s view that her constituents are able to access and get that local that, where services for perfectly good and legitimate medical help when they need it, and that includes the clinical reasons have been temporarily closed or altered, pharmacy that she mentioned. The hospital pharmacy it is extremely important that they are reopened as soon is absolutely vital for people being able to have timely as trusts are able to do so and, where in the future any access to the medicines they need and being able to get changes are proposed, that they are subject to the usual them on site. Although people using it will have been full public consultation, engagement and consideration. treated and advised in hospital, they can none the less I do not want to see temporary measures becoming get very helpful advice from the pharmacy as well, so I permanent by default, and she can read that as perhaps share her view about the importance of that. As I have an expression of my view on what is happening in said, I include that in my offer to her—to discuss that Roehampton. with her and with the chief executive. I will endeavour As the hon. Lady knows, the next step is for the local to do that later this week, but I am afraid that, given commissioners, together with the trust, to agree the new that I think I am taking through seven statutory instruments covid-secure model of care so that the centre can reopen in here tomorrow, it may be towards the back end of the in a way that is safe for patients, staff and the public. I week that I am able to do that. However, I will endeavour will ensure that I remind them of the need to keep her to do so. fully updated, although I suspect they will not need The Government remain committed more broadly to that, because I suspect they know that she has an restoring urgent non-covid services in a safe way and extremely high level of interest in this on behalf of her supporting NHS capacity to protect against the risk of constituents. a further surge in cases and, of course, the increased pressures—the hon. Lady alluded to that as the context I hope that I have been able to offer the hon. Lady for this—on the system during the winter. I reiterate my some reassurances today. I thank her for securing the thanks to our NHS staff, not only for what they have debate, and I very much look forward to meeting her. I done, but for what I suspect they are going to have to do am afraid that, at the moment, it has to be an offer of a in the coming months. meeting either by Zoom or in this place, but I hope that at some point, when we are able to do so safely and The hon. Lady will be aware that we have announced without hindering the work of those working in the considerable further investment in the NHS: an extra hospital, I may even be able to visit her hospital with £3 billion in July to help support the NHS, and £450 million her in the near future. of capital funding for urgent and emergency care services and expansions. I recognise that this is not going to her Question put and agreed to. own hospital, but I would just highlight that £2.5 million is going to St George’s. Quite rightly, she will champion 10.15 pm Roehampton, but I am sure she will welcome that more House adjourned. 137 12 OCTOBER 2020 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 138

Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

The following is the list of Members currently certified Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab) Chris Elmore as eligible for a proxy vote, and of the Members nominated Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co- Dawn Butler as their proxy: op) Dr James Davies (Vale of Clwyd) (Con) Stuart Andrew Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Martyn Day (Linlithgow and East Patrick Grady Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Bell Ribeiro-Addy Falkirk) (SNP) Stoke Newington) (Lab) Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab) Rachel Hopkins Tahir Ali (Birmingham, Hall Green) (Lab) Chris Elmore Allan Dorans (Ayr, Carrick and Patrick Grady (Telford) (Con) Mark Spencer Cumnock) (SNP) Dr Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) (Lab) Chris Elmore Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con) Stuart Andrew Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) Chris Elmore (Lab) Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con) Stuart Andrew Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con) Jeremy Hunt Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP) Patrick Grady Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) Stuart Andrew (Con) Mrs (Dover) (Con) Maria Caulfield (Derby South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) Bell Ribeiro-Addy George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) Stuart Andrew (Lab) (Con) Sir (Mole Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Stuart Andrew Crayford) (Con) (Rossendale and Darwen) Stuart Andrew (Con) Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire Patrick Grady Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance) Wendy South) (SNP) Chamberlain Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) Patrick Grady Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) Patrick Grady (SNP) (SNP) (Harrow East) (Con) Stuart Andrew Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Jonathan Hamilton West) (Ind) Edwards Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP) Patrick Grady (South Ribble) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP) Patrick Grady Steven Bonnar (Coatbridge, Chryston and Patrick Grady Bellshill) (SNP) Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) Chris Elmore (Lab) (North West Stuart Andrew Leicestershire) (Con) Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Stuart Andrew Wickford) (Con) Ms Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Marcus Fysh (Yeovil) (Con) Stuart Andrew Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab) Zarah Sultana Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con) Caroline Nokes (Bournemouth West) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ms Nusrat Ghani (Wealden) (Con) Steve Baker Ian Byrne (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Patrick Grady Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) Chris Elmore Arran) (SNP) (Lab) Preet Kaur Gill (Birmingham, Edgbaston) Chris Elmore Amy Callaghan (East Dunbartonshire) Patrick Grady (Lab/Co-op) (SNP) Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Stuart Andrew Amersham) (Con) (Rotherham) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab) Chris Elmore Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and Patrick Grady West Fife) (SNP) Mrs (Maidstone and The Stuart Andrew Weald) (Con) Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) Patrick Grady (SNP) Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP) Patrick Grady Feryal Clark (Enfield North) (Lab) Chris Elmore Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) Patrick Grady Mr Simon Clarke (Middlesbrough South Stuart Andrew Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) Graham Stringer and East Cleveland) (Con) (Lab) Chris Clarkson (Heywood and Middleton) Stuart Andrew Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) Chris Elmore (Con) (Lab) (Folkestone and Hythe) Stuart Andrew Claire Hanna ( South) (SDLP) Liz Saville (Con) Roberts Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab) Chris Elmore Neale Hanvey (Kirkaldy and Patrick Grady (Islington North) (Lab) Bell Ribeiro-Addy Cowdenbeath) (SNP) Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP) Patrick Grady Ms (Camberwell and Chris Elmore Geoffrey Cox (Torridge and West Devon) Stuart Andrew Peckham) (Lab) (Con) Sir Oliver Heald (North East Stuart Andrew Angela Crawley (Lanark and Hamilton Patrick Grady Hertfordshire) (Con) East) (SNP) Sir Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch Patrick Grady (Chatham and Aylesford) Caroline Nokes and Strathspey) (SNP) (Con) Simon Hoare (North Dorset) (Con) Fay Jones 139 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote12 OCTOBER 2020 Members Eligible for a Proxy Vote 140

Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy Member eligible for proxy vote Nominated proxy

Dame (Barking) (Lab) Chris Elmore Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) Stuart Andrew Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Chris Elmore (Con) Sunderland West) (Lab) David Morris (Morecambe and Stuart Andrew Kate Hollern (Blackburn) (Lab) Chris Elmore Lunesdale) (Con) (Gravesham) (Con) Maria Caulfield Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab) Chris Elmore Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab) Chris Elmore James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co- Chris Elmore op) Dr (Penrith and The Border) Stuart Andrew (Con) Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Patrick Grady Renfrewshire North) (SNP) Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con) Dehenna Davison John Nicolson (Ochil and South Patrick Grady Imran Hussain (Bradford East) (Lab) Mohammad Perthshire) (SNP) Yasin Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con) Rebecca Harris Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD) Wendy Chamberlain Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP) Patrick Grady Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab) Chris Elmore Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Chris Elmore Central) (Lab) Mr Ranil Jayawardena (North East Stuart Andrew Hampshire) (Con) Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Chris Elmore Thamesmead) (Lab) (Morley and Outwood) Stuart Andrew (Con) Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op) Nadia Whittome Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Chris Elmore Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP) Patrick Grady Hull North) (Lab) Mr (North Shropshire) Stuart Andrew Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Melton) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Con) Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles Chris Elmore Sir Mike Penning (Hemel Hempstead) Stuart Andrew South) (Lab) (Con) Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dr Dan Poulter (Central Suffolk and Peter Aldous North Ipswich) (Con) Sir (East Yorkshire) (Con) Stuart Andrew Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Julian Knight (Solihull) (Con) Stuart Andrew Co-op) Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab) Kate Osborne Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab) Chris Elmore Chris Law (Dundee West) (SNP) Patrick Grady Christina Rees (Neath) (Lab/Co-op) Chris Elmore Clive Lewis (Norwich South) (Lab) Lloyd Russell- Mary Robinson (Cheadle) (Con) Stuart Andrew Moyle Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con) Rebecca Harris Mr Ian Liddell-Grainger (Bridgwater and Stuart Andrew West Somerset) (Con) Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tony Lloyd (Rochdale) (Lab) Chris Elmore Mr Virendra Sharma (Ealing, Southall) Chris Elmore (Lab) Mr (Woking) (Con) Stuart Andrew Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/ Chris Elmore Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP) Patrick Grady Co-op) Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan Patrick Grady (Elmet and Rothwell) Stuart Andrew an Iar) (SNP) (Con) Karl McCartney (Lincoln) (Con) Stuart Andrew Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP) Patrick Grady Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab) Chris Elmore Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) Chris Elmore Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow Patrick Grady (Lab) South) (SNP) Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con) Stuart Andrew Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Patrick Grady Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab) Chris Elmore Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP) Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con) Stuart Andrew John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) Zarah Sultana (Lab) Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Wendy Easter Ross) (LD) Chamberlain Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) Patrick Grady (SNP) Sir Gary Streeter (South West Devon) Stuart Andrew (Con) Anna McMorrin (Cardiff North) (Lab) Chris Elmore (Central Devon) (Con) Stuart Andrew John McNally (Falkirk) (SNP) Patrick Grady Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP) Patrick Grady Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Chris Elmore Barr) (Lab) Richard Thomson (Gordon) (SNP) Patrick Grady Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) Chris Elmore (Hemsworth) (Lab) Dawn Butler (Lab/Co-op) Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) Chris Elmore Christian Matheson (City of Chester) Chris Elmore (Lab) (Lab) Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con) Stuart Andrew Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab) Chris Elmore Dr Jamie Wallis (Bridgend) (Con) Stuart Andrew (Fylde) (Con) Stuart Andrew Dr Philippa Whitford (Central Ayrshire) Patrick Grady (SNP) Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and Stuart Andrew East Thurrock) (Con) (Arfon) (PC) Liz Saville Roberts (Amber Valley) (Con) Stuart Andrew Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) Patrick Grady Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) Patrick Grady (SNP) (SNP) 1WH 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 2WH

a resilience that has surprised many, and dealt with the Westminster Hall impact of covid-19 better than the majority of adults I know. Having been a teacher myself, that did not surprise Monday 12 October 2020 me, but I am proud of them all none the less. From now on, however, we must ensure that our students, our future generations, are supported properly in their efforts. [GRAHAM STRINGER in the Chair] Since my name was announced as leading on this Exams: Covid-19 debate, a number of students have got in touch me with [Relevant Documents: First Report of the Education about how the uncertainty is affecting their mental Committee, Getting the grades they’ve earned: Covid-19: health. The issue has much wider impacts for many of the cancellation of exams and ‘calculated’ grades, HC 617; them: it could affect their entire life. Having spoken to Oral evidence taken before the Education Committee on the authors of the two petitions, listened to teachers 2 September 2020, on The impact of Covid-19 on education and students and drawn on my own experience as a and children’s services, HC 254; Oral evidence taken teacher, I am clear that clarity is paramount for everyone before the Education Committee on 16 September 2020, involved. on Accountability hearings, HC 262.] Today’s announcement from the Government will, I believe, do nothing to allay the fears of most students, 4.30 pm parents and teachers. This Government are keen to say Graham Stringer (in the Chair): I remind Members that they are “levelling up” the country, but this debacle that there have been some changes to normal practice in has shown that they are not interested in helping the order to support the new call-list system and to ensure most disadvantaged pupils. That is what I find most that social distancing can be respected. striking. Members should sanitise their microphones using the All students lost five months of in-school teaching cleaning materials provided before they use them, and and, as we know, many of them have not had access to should respect the one-way system around the Chamber. the internet or IT. Efforts to address that have not Members should speak only from the horseshoe. Members reached everyone. For the five months of missed school, may speak only if they are on the call lists, and that students will now be given three weeks of extra time—I applies even if debates are undersubscribed; Members can hear the guffaws of my teacher friends in Wigan may not join the debate if they are not on the call list. from where I am now. Members are not expected to remain for wind-ups. When there are more than 10 speakers, Members in the As we face further uncertainty from a second wave of latter stages of the call list should use the seats in the covid, those disadvantages could be further exacerbated. Public Gallery and move on to the horseshoe when Far from levelling up, this is treading down students seats become available. who do not have afforded to them all the advantages I also remind hon. Members that there is less expectation that the two thirds of the Cabinet who went to private for them to stay for the next two speeches once they school had. have spoken. That is to help manage attendance in the Unlike the UK Government, the Welsh Government Chamber. Members may wish to stay beyond their have commissioned an independent review into what speech but should be aware that, in doing so, they might happened with exams over the summer, which will look prevent Members in the seats in the Public Gallery from at what improvements can be made for next year. In the moving to seats in the horseshoe—some of that is summer, when the A-level results came out and students redundant, because no one is in the Public Gallery at and families were rightly upset, all I could think, as a the present time. parent of a child awaiting GCSE results, was, “It didn’t have to be like this.” Where was the debate? Where were 4.31 pm the conversations with students, teachers and parents? Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab): I beg to move, There was none—or very little. The views of the unions That this House has considered e-petitions 306773 and 320772 were readily ridiculed and silenced by those who have relating to exams during Covid-19. no idea what it is like to teach in a comprehensive It is an honour to serve under your chairmanship, school system. Mr Stringer. I would like to thank both of those behind these This debate has been triggered by two petitions: one important petitions, Jakia Ali and Rafia Hussain. The started by Jakia Ali to review the decision to use previous sheer number of signatures on both petitions demonstrates data to calculate exam grades, which received the strength of feeling across the country about this 148,880 signatures; and Rafia Hussain’s petition to issue. Jakia started her petition in March. It was great reduce the curriculum content for years 10 and 12 to speak to such an eloquent and determined young students who will sit exams in 2021, which received woman, who was meant to be sitting her GCSEs this 147,099 signatures. The debate is very timely today, in summer, like my son. She felt the stress and frustration light of the Government’s written statement. In what at first hand, and I can relate to that. Moreover, Jakia has been a worrying time for everyone, and in spite of had little to focus on when she knew there would be no the furore over the summer about the exam results, exams, and she had a long wait until her A-levels. What many students still feel as if they have been abandoned is notable about her petition is that indeed it was on in this crisis. A-level results day that it gathered momentum: a true At the outset, I put on the record my thanks to all the reflection of how unhappy young people were. She was students, parents and teachers who have had to deal worried and concerned about how her results would be with this unprecedented situation. Students have shown calculated and understandably wanted to ensure that 3WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 4WH

[Tonia Antoniazzi] I start by talking about the pupils who have had a miserable time in the last six months of their GCSEs or she and her friends received grades that reflected their A-levels. All pupils have been affected, but especially true potential. Is that not what we want for all our those who were unable to sit the exams that they worked children? so hard for. I am incredibly sympathetic and empathetic When I spoke to Rafia, who is herself a teacher, we to what they have gone through. With the support of found that we had quite a lot in common. Last week, their teachers and loved ones, they had geared themselves she still felt that the Government were doing nothing. up to take their big test—to find that they were unable She found it very difficult to engage with her learners to do so was heartbreaking for all concerned. through remote learning, and she said that was the I know there has been a lot of discussion, with the experience of many of her fellow teachers. We know benefit of hindsight, about how things could have been that it is not the same as face-to-face learning. She had done differently, and I am sure it will come up again. All experience of that, especially with a family member in I would say in that regard is that I am very conscious year 10. The situation had a huge impact on his self-esteem that decisions were made by the Conservative Government and engagement with the GCSE curriculum. in England, the SNP Government in Scotland, the Rafia set up the petition in frustration in the early Labour Government in Wales and the DUP/Sinn Féin hours of the morning so that the Government would Government in Northern Ireland, and they were not hear her call to debate the petition and put into action a that different. Every single Department has had to plan to reduce the content of GCSEs and A-levels so wrestle with what is right in the circumstances in a that students could achieve their full potential in a fast-changing situation. I am certainly mindful of that, limited time. The hard fact is, as the National Education and I am grateful to all the nations’ Departments for Union has stated, that the only route to fairness would what they have done. However, the reality is that some be a complete cancellation of exams and use of robustly young people have missed out in certain regards. moderated, externally quality assured teacher judgment. I want to talk about the importance of exams. For We relied on teacher judgment this year. I found it very some people, exams are the way they are best able to difficult listening to my friends in the teaching profession demonstrate their aptitude and their ability to have and hearing their concerns, not just in England but in absorbed information. Young people who have not Wales as well. They need to be listened to. This is my been able to sit their exams, which would have perhaps plea, and it is the plea of the petitioners: listen to the given them better grades than their teacher-assessed people at the chalkface. Listen to the teachers, pupils grades, have missed out. I stand here as someone who and students at GCSE and A-level. It is very important was in that exact situation. I got very poor GCSEs and for them to have their voices heard. That is why I am went to a further education college—not the private, proud to talk to speak to the petitions, because petitions elite education to which the hon. Member for Gower give people a voice. The Government should do more referred, but then I am not in the Cabinet; perhaps there and should be listening to them. is a correlation there. I attended a secondary modern school because I Several hon. Members rose— failed my 12-plus, and then I went through to a further education college, where my grades were effectively Graham Stringer (in the Chair): There is no SNP rather lazily based on my GCSEs, the assumption being spokesperson, so I intend to call the two Front-Bench that I had not been taught anything during the two speakers 20 minutes before the end, at 5.40 pm. They years of A-levels. It was a surprise to everyone, not least will get 10 minutes. There are 10 other speakers, so you me, when A’s were awarded. I had to start again and can divide that up yourselves. reapply to universities that perhaps I should have applied to in the first place. That occurred only because I took 4.39 pm my exams. I am not suggesting the teaching quality is as it was decades ago, when I was in that situation, but (Bexhill and Battle) (Con): Thank many young people will have missed out on a great you, Mr Stringer. It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. place at university, or somewhere else they want to go, Having not done too well in my maths, I am struggling because they did not have the opportunity to take an to work out how much time I have got, but in any event exam. They might have had the fallback, but—let us be I will not take all the allotted time. It is also a pleasure honest—who was going to take that in the circumstances? to follow the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), I absolutely applaud the determination to have exams who gave a wide-ranging speech and an introduction to back on the timetable for 2021; it is absolutely the right this e-petition debate as we rightly discuss covid’s impact thing for us to do. However, I want to express my on exams. concern to the Minister about how much time has now I want to talk about the cohort who have just been been lost by pupils who will be sitting their GCSE and through their GCSEs and A-levels without sitting exams. A-level exams. Arguably, they have missed out more of I also want to look to the future and at the current their content than those who would have sat exams in cohort—what might be the right thing for them in the the year just gone, because by March they have pretty circumstances? Looking at the current year groups who much finished their content for the two years. That are about to take their exams, I am very mindful of the cohort have lost a good six-month chunk, and I am very written statement from the Department for Education concerned. I would like to see us reflect on whether the today, which has announced that exams will be put syllabus and the content can be changed in order to take back by three weeks. There is also talk of other changes. that into account. Can the Minister tease out a little more information It is fine to say we are giving an extra three weeks, but from that written statement? Perhaps we can hear a that does not correlate with the months that were lost, little more from him about that. and I feel that would be right. I understand that geography 5WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 6WH has been looked at, in terms of field trips not going Ministers started the summer by saying they wanted to ahead, as has English literature, in terms of the reading. avoid “systematic disadvantage”, by the end of the However, I believe that other subjects have not been summer it was plain that Ministers were responsible for looked at. Can the Minister tell us whether that can be the exact opposite, hardwiring disadvantage into the done on a subject-by-subject basis and whether a report system. can be given back after the upcoming half-term has Where was the Prime Minister? Like Macavity, the ended? Schools and pupils need that clarity. mystery cat, the Prime Minister is not there. A report by The other thing that I ask the Minister to do is to the National Foundation for Educational Research last take coursework into account. If we go down the road month revealed that school pupils were on average three where schools are not able to hold exams again, which months behind where they would normally have been we hope we will not, then we are looking at schools on without the lockdown, with more deprived students an individual school-by-school basis. I wonder whether and schools being worst affected. it would be better to have some coursework marked by I have a rather famous top school near me, down near the exam boards, so that there is some rigour and Slough and Windsor, but why should pupils at that consistency of standards should we fall back to a place particular college get enhanced opportunity, on top of that we do not want to fall back to: having no exams. the huge opportunities that they already have, at the I will end there, so that there is time for the Minister expense of pupils at Wexham School, at Beechwood to respond to the debate. By and large, however,I welcome School, at Ditton Park Academy or other such great the statement by the Government today and I welcome schools in Slough? It is especially cruel for those pupils the fact that there is a recommitment to exams. The who had worked hard and were on track to do well—simply announcement about the few extra weeks will be very because they attend a school that historically had struggled well received, but I ask that we go a bit deeper and look they were punished. As the joint general secretary of again at the syllabus content, to ensure that those young the National Education Union, Mary Bousted, said: people who have missed out on quite a large chunk of “Grades were initially awarded, for the vast majority of students, their A-levels or GCSEs are not disadvantaged when it with no reference to, or evidence of, their individual achievements.” comes to getting their grades. We tell people that their children can do better than 4.45 pm they themselves did and we tell the next generation that if they work hard they can get on. If we as a society Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab): It is a break that fundamental promise, we risk far more than pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. one summer of chaos; we risk there being a breakdown It is a privilege to take part in this important debate, of trust in our institutions and a generation held back which, if I may say so, has been very ably led by my hon. by injustice. We are storing up troubles for decades to Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi). It come. has been triggered by a summer of chaos in our schools The petitioners point to two key areas where we can and colleges.Hundreds of people in my Slough constituency try to get things right next year: first, to review in have signed both the petitions that we are considering forensic detail what went wrong this summer, despite today, which shows that there is real concern and anger the warnings from education unions, schools and the among the people I represent. Education Committee; and secondly, to make plans for, Like every hon. Member here, over the summer I was and give much-needed clarity to, those who are taking contacted by parents,teachers and young people themselves exams next year. I am glad the Government have addressed about their concerns, and about the confusion and the exams timetable for 2021, but since August, the chaos, surrounding this year’s exam results. There were Labour party has been calling for exams to be delayed heartbreaking stories of university places being withdrawn until June to give pupils more time to catch up on lost and people’s futures being stolen. I think that even the teaching time. It is unacceptable that it has taken until Government’s greatest supporters would acknowledge today, more than a month after schools returned, for that things did not go well. the Government to finally commit to that. In March, the Education Secretary cancelled exams, Until now, parents, pupils and schools have been left saying that this year’s students should not face in the dark regarding the timing of exams, making it “systematic disadvantage as a consequence of these extraordinary more difficult for them to plan for the academic year. circumstances.”—[Official Report, 23 March 2020; Vol. 670, c. 1WS.] Additionally, although a delay to exams is necessary, In July, the Education Committee sounded the alarm other measures must be considered by the Government that groups of pupils—especially those from disadvantaged to ensure that exams are fair. Perhaps the Minister can backgrounds or from black, Asian and minority ethnic address the following three points. First, what guarantees backgrounds—would be penalised. On 13 August, the can he give parents, pupils and teachers in Slough number of pupils being awarded A or A* at A-level schools that we will not see a 2021 summer of chaos? increased to an all-time high in England, Wales and Secondly, what measures will Ministers put in place to Northern Ireland, with 27.9% of A-level students securing ensure that pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds do top grades; I congratulate all those students for that. not have their dreams stolen by hard-wired injustice? However, pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds Finally, what can he tell us about thousands of taxpayer were hit hardest by the algorithm that was used, with pounds going to public relations agency Public First, Ofqual itself showing that such pupils were most likely which was paid by Ofqual in the summer to clear up its to have the grades proposed by their teachers overruled PR disaster? and downgraded, while children from affluent backgrounds Money was paid out of the public purse to a PR agency were most likely to do well. The same pattern was run by Rachel Wolf and James Frayne, former special evident a few days later with the GCSEs. Although advisers to the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath 7WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 8WH

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi] Jonathan Gullis: I will not, unfortunately. To return to Ofqual, Tim Oates, the director of assessment research (Michael Gove), on a contract awarded without competitive and development at Cambridge Assessment, raised issues tender. Does the Minister consider that a good use of with the Secretary of State and the Minister, whom, he public money? said, were eager to hear about the problems the organisation uncovered regarding the algorithm. Sadly, when that was raised with Ofqual, it shrugged it off, as if to say, 4.51 pm “We’re not interested in hearing from anyone outside.” Jonathan Gullis (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Con): It is a Ofqual, therefore, has lost the confidence of the education pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. sector. The hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), who As a former secondary school teacher in state schools opened the debate, talked about those who had had a for eight years, across London and in Birmingham, I private school education. As someone who had that, I can only imagine the pain teachers felt when they saw am certainly not going to apologise for going to a that their hard work ranking students—my partner, school that my parents thought was best for me to who is a head of religious education, worked for eight attend at the time, when the two state schools nearby and a half hours ranking students—was simply ignored were both failing, and one was on the verge of closure. because of the size of the cohort. I do not think that is Before other Members chastise me as a Tory toff, they good enough. The lessons must be learned from Germany, might be interested to note my backstory before they where students sat exams and results fell in line with assign that tag to me and make a lazy assumption— previous years or slightly exceeded them. Exams are an absolute must. Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): Will the Before I finish, I must say that two young ladies in my hon. Gentleman give way? constituency would like to know what is expected of them in terms of the curriculum and the exam content Jonathan Gullis: I will not. Ofqual’s reaction was they will face, because they feel that while those three quite simple. It saw what was coming down the road. weeks are very welcome, six months of face-to-face How do I know that? Because I am a member of the contact was lost, which was awfully damaging to them. Select Committee on Education. After taking evidence, I beg the Minister to ensure that Ofqual does not move we made very clear in our report, published on 11 July, to an online model, as it mentioned in the Select Committee, what the situation was: where we had large cohorts, kids because I believe that will only end in disaster yet again. would be disadvantaged; where we had disadvantaged children within those large cohorts, who were high achievers but were in low-achieving schools, they would 4.56 pm see their grades brought down; and schools for children Ellie Reeves (Lewisham West and Penge) (Lab): It is a with special educational needs and disabilities, with pleasure to speak in this debate. I went to a tough small cohorts and variable results year on year, would south-east London comprehensive, which was big on also see an impact, so Ofqual had notice of what we pastoral care but not so big on academic results. If I thought would go wrong. Sadly, it appears that Ofqual had been graded in 2020, I am sure that I would not chose to not heed the advice of the Education Committee. have been graded my three As by the algorithms and my What annoyed me even further was that when the life would have taken a very different path, so I feel chair of Ofqual appeared before the Committee after strongly about this issue. the A-level and GCSE results fiasco, I asked him whether The pandemic has presented schools with a range of he had run a dataset after what happened in Scotland complex problems, but schools up and down the country, on 4 August to see how results would be impacted in not least in my constituency, did a brilliant job staying this country, and I got dodging and skirting from him. open for the children of key workers and for vulnerable There was no answer to the fact that Ofqual chose at no children, providing lessons for home-schooling and stage to look at its data analytically enough to determine preparing for the wider reopening in September. However, whether it would see a good outcome. I am led to the summer exams fiasco, the failure to get an adequate believe that the algorithm itself was not shown to testing system in place and a complete lack of specific Ministers for an awfully long time. It certainly was not guidance for schools have made it apparent that our shared with the Education Committee and was not schools are being let down by the Government. published, despite numerous people wishing to take I recently invited all the headteachers in my constituency part. In fact, an outside agency, the Royal Statistical to a virtual meeting to discuss the current situation and Society, offered its services to engage with Ofqual and to listen to their concerns. One of the most pressing look at the algorithm, but that offer was turned down. issues that they raised was clarity and guidance around Two fellows were blocked from joining the Ofqual technical how exams will be conducted this academic year. Their advisory group of independent experts, even though demand is completely acceptable. It is staggering that it they wished to advise. Again, Ofqual has answers that it has taken the Government until today to respond to it, needs to give. particularly given what happened over the summer. In Stoke-on-Trent North, Kidsgrove and Talke, which While today’s announcement of a three-week I am proud to represent, I had emails from young postponement is necessary, it does not do anything to people who had worked tremendously hard and were make up for a term or more of missed classes. It also unable to leave school in the traditional way. When they does not recognise that students have been disrupted by were unable to have a leavers assembly and to get the the pandemic to varying degrees. Those impacted the recognition that they deserve, I was deeply disappointed. most by coronavirus are at the greatest disadvantage. More must be done to take that into consideration and Stephanie Peacock: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? make this year’s exams fairer. 9WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 10WH

Pupils set to sit those exams were in the final stages of 5.1 pm years 10 and 12 when schools closed in March. As a Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab): It is a pleasure result, they have missed out on months of face-to-face to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, and it is learning. Additionally, the wide range of safety measures of course a great pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the in schools, the risks of periods of self-isolation and Member for Lewisham West and Penge (Ellie Reeves). other external disruptions are preventing teaching as As many colleagues have mentioned, the impact of the usual for now. Further, it is possible that the development results scandal is still being felt by young people across of the pandemic could prevent many from physically the country: students who felt their life chances had sitting the exams of summer 2021. been changed through no fault of their own, parents In these difficult times, we look to the Government to who spent hours on hold waiting to speak to someone set a direction and bring a degree of certainty to the in a university admissions office, and teachers who felt uncertain, but it has taken until today to get an answer, ignored by this Government and powerless to help their and questions and uncertainty remain. This uncertainty hard-working students. does not help anyone. We should not underestimate the impact of lockdown on young people’s mental health. Back in August, when the A-level results were published, The pandemic has further exacerbated inequalities in I received correspondence from many angry constituents society. Schools need to be able to focus on pastoral who had their results downgraded by the Government- care and support after many months out of the classroom. approved algorithm. Barnsley College, which serves my A recent survey by the charity Parentkind found that constituency, said that, overall, 63% of pupils were 88% of parents surveyed thought that the lack of clarity downgraded against teacher predictions. This was in about arrangements for exams had negatively affected sharp contrast to pupils in more affluent areas and their child’s mental health or wellbeing. those who were in private education, whose grades were reported to have risen overall—that is the point that the Severalquestionsareomittedfromtoday’sannouncement. hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan Gullis), How will exams ensure that pupils, who have faced despite his private education, seems to have missed. different levels of disruption, will be treated equally? Fortunately,the pressure that followed let to a Government What will the contingency plans be if future lockdowns U-turn, but young people in Barnsley East and across occur? What information should schools be gathering in the country should never have been subjected to such an case exams are cancelled again and grades have to be injustice, which in turn led to so much uncertainty estimated? regarding their university places and next steps. Serious consideration also has to be given to the impact that self-isolation of pupils and teachers will have, given The Government’s mishandling of this was nothing the issues with the lack of access to tests that schools short of disastrous—a fiasco. Young people and their have told me about. Five education unions, including families were put through days of anxiety and uncertainty the National Education Union and the National just because our Prime Minister and his Education Association of Head Teachers, have put forward a Secretary were too stubborn to accept that using their detailed proposal to help remedy these problems. They algorithm was unfair and discriminatory. At the time, suggest mechanisms such as reducing the content in teachers reported to me that they were left feeling qualifications, or introducing greater optionality by undervalued and ignored after their predicted grades which students could choose to answer questions on, were overruled. I accept that these are unprecedented for example, three out of five possible topics. That would times, but this should never have been allowed to happen, help to ensure that the grades received were as fair as and I fully support calls for an investigation of what possible and recognise the different experiences pupils went wrong and how to ensure it is never repeated. may have had over the year. The proposal also suggests However, any investigation should take place alongside contingency plans, so that students who were significantly planning for exams in 2021. Our year 11 and year 13 impacted by the pandemic would still be able to receive GCSE, BTEC and A-level students face enormous pressure, a fair grade. Suggestions include reserve papers for trying to cram the lost six months of learning into an students unable to sit exams on a particular date, but already crammed curriculum. Unless there is a rethink, able to sit them shortly afterwards, and staged assessments they will have to complete up to 18 months of work in before the summer exams, which could then be used if nine short months if they are to have any chance of those exams had to be abandoned altogether. following their desired educational career paths. I fully I hope that we can get clarity from the Minister and support the move to get students back into the classroom, his Department today, and that, going forward, they but the Government have to acknowledge that this is so will be discussing with schools and unions how best to different from any other academic year, and our teachers’ design the summer exam system. The Government’s calls for a rethink in how exams take place this school approach to negotiations with the unions about the year should not be ignored. wider reopening of schools was wholly lacking; I hope As we realised from August’s fiasco, no one is better they do not make the same mistake again when it comes placed than our teachers on the frontline to judge what to exams. I do not doubt the scale of this challenge, but will happen if the Government fail to step in and make given the Department’s recent performance and the the required changes, before we hurtle headlong into lack of urgency with which it has treated this issue, it is another educational catastrophe. Pupil attendance is more important than ever that the Department engage already significantly lower than in previous years, mainly with schools and unions. By doing so, I believe a fair due to bubbles collapsing, pupils isolating, suspected system could be delivered that would give the young and confirmed covid cases, and rising anxieties and people who have already been impacted so much by this mental health challenges. Teachers are reporting fatigue pandemic a fair chance at future attainment, but that such as they have never felt before in October, because requires the Government to listen and to work with all of the stress of managing their and their pupils’ health those involved. and safety, and the added workload. However, one of 11WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 12WH

[Stephanie Peacock] no fault of their own, and unable to believe that they had been given grades lower than they had ever received the most important factors, which the Government throughout their education. Ludicrously, some students appear completely to have overlooked, is the disparity got a U, as though they had never been there—a U that between pupils from affluent areas and their less affluent related to a student at their school from the previous neighbours. year. My local mental health trust has given me a figure Young people from more deprived areas are more of 20% for the increase in demand for mental health likely to do worse in the 2021 exams if the Government services, which is predominantly going to fall on the do not step in with a sustainable, fair plan. As many shoulders of our young people. Not only are we not schools and colleges begin to move back to online prepared at that level; it seems that we are not prepared learning, it must be acknowledged that that on the level of education either. We need to begin to disproportionately affects pupils who may not have the predict the dreadful outcomes of covid now, and prepare internet at home, who do not have access to a laptop, or for the mental health needs of the next generation, who simply have a chaotic home life, so that finding a because they appear to me like the first world war quiet space to work is almost impossible. generation—shellshocked, traumatised and in desperate need of comfort and support. I welcome the Government scheme to provide laptops for disadvantaged children, but it does not go anywhere Eventually, the U-turn came. It was quite exciting near far enough to ensure that no student or young watching television every day in the summer holidays, person will miss out on vital learning as a result of the with Ofqual coming out, then the Department, and crisis. There are many students who are outside the then Ofqual again. What was finally done was so late, Government eligibility criteria, who will simply fall and caused so much unnecessary distress, that, sadly, it through the cracks if the scheme is not extended. In seemed to symbolise the way the Government have July, it was reported that 80% of private schools were approached the whole covid crisis. Tragically, many offering a full online suite of lessons, in contrast to just students decided to defer, which means that universities 8% of state schools. The outcome of the pandemic will be in a terrible place in a year’s time. Once again, cannot be one where the richest survive. Steps must be they will have to turn down certain students. When a taken to equalise the life chances of all who are due to large number of students defer their university place for take exams next summer. I pay tribute to the hard work a year, the poor university ends up with a lot of applicants of teachers across Barnsley East and the whole UK. to process. Inevitably, some people will miss out. The These are unprecedented times and they call for endless pattern of incompetence is no way to run the unprecedented measures. The Government must listen country. Young people deserve to know why they were to the professionals and act quickly to ensure that the let down so badly, and 17-year-olds embarking on their life chances of the class of 2021 are not reduced. final year of A-levels or BTECs need to know that it will not happen again. 5.6 pm I want briefly to comment on today’s announcement, because the Minister is in the Chamber. I shall take no Catherine West (Hornsey and Wood Green) (Lab): It more than 30 seconds, Mr Stringer. Would he please get is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, the poor teachers around the table? They want desperately and to contribute to a debate where we have the wonderful to discuss the proposals in today’s announcement. He leadership of my hon. Friend the Member for Gower should not just try to impose this from the top, because (Tonia Antoniazzi), who was a teacher and who, Members pupils should be treated fairly. Able pupils in schools may not be aware, is also an excellent rugby player. We should not just reflect the cohort from the year before; can all be grateful for that. they should be taken seriously. The concept of exams It is never easy waiting for exam results, but the needs to make allowance for the fact that some students young people of Hornsey and Wood Green spent their are so nervous about sitting exams for which they have summer waiting for the results of exams that they never missed so much preparation that will they drop more sat, which were determined by algorithms designed by difficult subjects that they are capable of doing, thereby someone who had never seen their work. This has been missing out on good university places which will go to particularly challenging. Everyone accepts that setting the same students, as they do every year. Let us try to grades was difficult in those unique circumstances, yet fight this with a genuine vision of how we can allow the Education Secretary had five months to prepare, students to be socially mobile, and allow those who are and it was not as if warnings were not flagged. As has able to get places at good universities. been mentioned, the report of the Education Committee went into quite a lot of detail: “Pupils will carry these qualifications with them for their entire 5.11 pm lives. Their calculated grades must be accurate. But we have concerns that the system described by Ofqual as the ‘fairest Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD): It is a pleasure to possible in the circumstances’ could be unfair for groups including serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer, and to disadvantaged pupils, BAME pupils, children looked after, and speak in this timely debate. pupils with SEND.” One point on which we can all agree is that students Never was a truer word spoken, yet all the hard work have had an incredibly tough time this year. The petitions that Members of the House put into the report appears that we are debating raise several important questions to have been completely ignored. about exams next year. The Government’s announcement While the Prime Minister was holidaying in a wigwam, today represents, I think it is fair to say, baby steps I joined the local students, in Parliament Square, in in the right direction, but we are left asking where are their fight for justice. Many I spoke to were distraught, the serious actions that will help to stop a repeat of this terrified that they had lost their university places through summer’s fiasco. So far, the answer is to delay school 13WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 14WH exams by three weeks next summer, to give students I am proud that around 250 Leicester East residents more time to study. If those exams cannot go ahead, were among the 300,000-plus people who signed the plan B is to push the schools to perform “rigorous petition calling on the Government to improve the mock exams” many months earlier to provide more allocation of grades during the coronavirus pandemic. data to determine grades. That is incredibly half-baked. It is important for us all to keep in mind that pupils will Today, students and teachers have met the measures carry these qualifications with them for their entire with, at best, scepticism and, at worst, derision. How lives. We cannot allow young people in Leicester East, can we push back school exams by three weeks to give across Leicester and across the UK to be punished more time for teaching, then basically bring them forward because of circumstances beyond their control, and yet by five months by formalising mock exams? there are widespread concerns that the system described Most mocks will take place early next year, and many by Ofqual as students and teachers feel that they will have little time “the fairest possible in the circumstances” to cover this year’s syllabus, making a mockery of the could be unfair for groups including disadvantaged Government’s measures to give more teaching time. I pupils, African, Asian and minority ethnic pupils, children would like the Minister to give a firm commitment that who are looked after and, as has been said, children on no student will be tested on any subject that they have free school meals and pupils with special educational not learned. That is absolutely vital. I would like the needs or disabilities. Ofqual must urgently identify whether Minister to explain why mocks are being used in this these groups have been systematically disadvantaged by way, because the Government had previously dropped calculated grades and, if that is the case, Ofqual’s the idea of using them, so it is important that people standardisation model must adjust the grades of affected understand what has changed. I would also like him to pupils upwards. explain whether time will be provided to make sure that Research by the University and College Union found marking is done after the full exams. that the grades of pupils from low-income families are That brings us to the second petition, which asks for more likely to be incorrectly predicted than those of the curriculum to be reduced, as teaching time is likely their more affluent peers. High-attaining disadvantaged to be lost because of disruption. Students have lost at pupils are even more likely to be underpredicted compared least five months of in-school teaching, and many of with those from more affluent backgrounds, with Sutton them are right to be concerned that some of this year’s Trust research concluding that the grades of 1,000 high- mistakes may be repeated. Where there is increased achieving disadvantaged students are underpredicted interruption in teaching, we should give schools and per year. teachers more input into those decisions on which parts of the curriculum should be prioritised. As hon. Members Tragically, racial inequalities exist alongside class have said, many teachers have said that they were not discrimination at every stage of the education system. consulted on today’s announcement, and they want to Research by the then Department for Business, Innovation discuss it. Will the Minister make a commitment today and Skills found that black African and African-Caribbean that he will meet them very soon? A-level students had the lowest predicted grade accuracy, with only 39% of predicted grades accurate, while their There are wider issues at play. Schools are warning white counterparts had the highest, at 53%. Amid the that they may grind to a halt without access to covid coronavirus crisis, it is therefore likely that the cancellation tests, and without quick turnaround times for results. of A-levels will have a disproportionately negative impact Many still do not have the resources and funding that on black students. The Government must work urgently they need to provide education from home for those with Ofqual to ensure that students are not discriminated who have to self-isolate. That is all the worse for children against because of their background. with special educational needs and disabilities. It is crucial that pupils are able to appeal their grades Today’s announcement is unbelievably thin. It could if they believe that bias or discrimination has occurred. have been made weeks ago. Where is the independent Worryingly, research into grade prediction accuracy for assessment of what went wrong? Where is the scenario university applicants has found that just 16% of applicants planning for next year? Saying that it will come later in receive the grades they are predicted. I am concerned the autumn is not good enough. The Government have that Ofqual has not given enough thought to how had months to sort this out. What about our most accessible this route is to all pupils without support. vulnerable children—those who are clinically vulnerable, Proving bias or discrimination would be an almost who are facing a life or death decision about whether impossible threshold for any pupil to evidence. they can return to school? When can we expect a Disadvantaged pupils and those without family resources comprehensive plan for these various challenges? or wider support risk being shut out of this process. The Students, parents and teachers are sick of the Government, working with Ofqual, must urgently publish Government passing the buck and letting civil servants the evidence threshold for proving bias and discrimination take the hit. Ofqual was not on the ballot paper last and set out what evidence will be required and how they December; the Conservative party was. It is this will support students through the appeals process. Government who are accountable to the public, both for what went wrong and for how they are going to Before I finish, I take this opportunity to send my fix it. solidarity to year 12 A-level students in Leicester and across the country who have taken strike action over the Government’s failure to provide adequate support to 5.15 pm their cohort during the pandemic. Aaisha, one of the Claudia Webbe (Leicester East) (Ind): It is a pleasure strike organisers from Leicester, says the Government to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I have not done enough to support the future of this congratulate the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia country. I could not agree more. Two thirds of the Antoniazzi) on securing this important debate. current Cabinet were privately educated, and yet they 15WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 16WH

[Claudia Webbe] the Government to bring back teacher assessment for 2021. It is simply not realistic to assume that we can systematically deny working-class young people—especially return to business as usual for this academic year. from African, Asian and minority ethnic communities—the That is also true of Ofsted inspections. I understand opportunities that they were afforded. The Government that Ofsted inspections are due to resume in January. must urgently adopt a fairer means of allocating grades, Schools are simply not ready for that. Many schools to ensure that no one is unjustly left behind as a result have finely tuned social distancing arrangements in of this pandemic. place. The additional presence of inspectors at the school, when they are not normally part of the school 5.20 pm community, adds extra worry and anxiety. How should Wera Hobhouse (Bath) (LD): Education has changed schools plan for that? Is it right that schools should dramatically since the covid pandemic. I, too, am a have to have an extra contingency plan in case of former secondary school teacher. I feel deeply concerned unexpected inspections, to add to their already stretched about the disruption, challenges and stresses that teaching capacity? I hope that the Government are considering staff, school leaders and especially our young people that too, and that they will put back Ofsted inspections had to go through, and that they continue to face. In until at least September 2021. Bath and across the country, our teachers, school staff As cases rises, so too does the risk of local and and pupils, along with their families and carers, have national lockdowns. Pupils may not have seen the last done a truly amazing job, and I thank them all. of home learning. In that eventuality, the Government The exam results chaos caused great distress and must support all schools to deliver high quality education disruption that could have been completely avoided. to every child in this country. Give schools the space The Government, more worried about grade inflation they need, and trust teachers and school leaders to be than about fairness, let thousands of young people the best judges of the young people who are their down. As I said at the time, teachers are far better responsibility. judges of their pupils’ability than are algorithms imposed by the Department for Education. Many young people’s 5.24 pm aspirations and plans for their future were dashed. Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op): It is a Once again, as we have heard already, students from pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mr Stringer. I disadvantaged backgrounds were disproportionately thank the 551 petitioners from my constituency who affected. have signed the petitions. Today, the Government have announced that they Our young people have shown extraordinary resilience will bring back exams in 2021, with a three-week delay. as they have battled the traumas of the past six months, Having engaged this afternoon with school leaders in not least when they were presented with a mutant Bath, whom I trust in everything they say and do, I algorithm that downgraded so many of their expectations believe that that is the wrong decision. We have seen after the extensive work that they and their teachers had that teacher assessment works, and for the next academic done. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gower (Tonia year that is clearly the best option. Antoniazzi) rightly said, it is so important to listen not The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Jonathan only to pupils, but to teachers. She is not just an Gullis) did not take any interventions, but I wanted to excellent rugby player; given the way she tackled the ask him what lessons we should learn from Germany. I debate, the Minister should surely step out of the way am always interested when people speak with great and listen to what she had to say. confidence about other countries without necessarily Sadly, the upheaval continues for too many young knowing the details. Germany does not have any national people as infection rates soar. After securing a place at exams. It has a devolved education system. Indeed, the university of their choice, they now find themselves many exam grades are awarded through teacher assessment, locked down, isolated and not knowing what comes which proves that teachers know best and we can rely next. Young people really need a clear plan to see them solidly on their assessments of their pupils. I believe we through this year securely, and the Government need to should look at that as the best option for next year, at come up with that plan now. One thing that this summer the least. has done is to shine a spotlight on our whole education Many learners are still catching up. The help announced system. The inequality has been exposed. Pupils who in June for learners from disadvantaged backgrounds took the BTEC line of assessment had such a delay in has been delayed, and in some cases is still not in place. their results coming out—that was a real inequality for The education of young people is constantly in danger them. What happened this summer also demonstrated of being disrupted. If some members of a group or that reliance on a single form of assessment—the exam—at cohort have to self-isolate because of an outbreak, such a time has created significant risk. When the young learners find themselves back at home. Those Minister knew about the inequality that was coming who are due to sit the exams next year already worry through, as my parliamentary question exposed, why that the mock exams might end up counting as the did he still go ahead and publish those results, and not actual results. That adds another layer of stress that hold off and put the corrections in the system? That teachers and pupils do not deserve. could have removed a lot of the trauma and stress that Behind every exam result is a young life, full of our young people had to experience this summer. promise. We cannot begin to know what toll the A-level The catch-up support that the Government promised— and GCSE results fiasco will ultimately take on the the covid catch-up programme and the national tutoring self-esteem, mental health, personal development and programme—has not arrived, partly because they are earning capacity of those who have been impacted. On trying to procure a national contract with some private behalf of the students and teachers of Bath, I call on organisations. We know how well that has gone with 17WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 18WH testing. Local authorities have the relationships and the universal. Will the Minister say whether more attention means to deliver this, and they know the needs of local will be paid to that? I welcome how some schools—I schools. I suggest to the Minister that he moves that believe even Eton is doing this—are putting things like support to local authorities, as York is requesting—the farming and art into the curriculum, yet so many of our excellence of York’s education system is well known—so state schools do not have that opportunity. If that that they can deliver it to schools. That would be a first benefits some kids, it should benefit all kids. That is step forward. Today’s announcement that six months’ what we should look at. catch-up can be achieved by having a three-week extension While mastering data management and league tables to exams is just unreal. might be important to Government, our young people’s Further episodes of isolation are continuing as we mental health is suffering more stress than ever before. speak. This morning I was told that a constituent who is We have heard that throughout this debate. If we are due to sit exams this week has had to self-isolate for the serious about developing confident and well-rounded second time this term, resulting in three weeks of absence young people, building an economy fit for the future, in this half-term alone. How can she be fairly assessed improving productivity and being world leaders again, against her peers, who have perhaps been in school the we should equip our young people with a curriculum whole time? The same applies to pupils who have been that helps all of them to soar and not to stumble. shielding at home because they are extremely clinically Knowledge is one thing, but skills to know how to vulnerable. research and critically appraise information are of far Today in York, 50 more pupils from just one secondary greater value. We should therefore redress the assessment school have been sent home to self-isolate. We know system, because before an exam paper, some people that this year will be a very disrupted one, but the thrive and some people dive. Education must therefore scenario planning that we would expect to have had be about stretching and challenging young minds and from the Government by now has not been forthcoming. providing young people with the opportunity to show The Government really need to recognise the reality of off their gifts and talents to shape our future. the situation. I trust that the Minister will let us know Let us not crush this opportunity with an exam, exactly when we will hear what the future holds for particularly when there are so many unknowns in the young people. We cannot get to the end of the year and equation. Let us reward our young people with the right have some young people self-isolating when exams are assessment tool so that they can have confidence in due. Young people who are already stressed today will their learning now, and in the assessment to come at the be even more stressed by that point in the calendar, so end of the year. we need to build flexibility into the system now. I support the call from the trade unions and others to 5.32 pm have a broader choice of questions in exam papers so Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): It is a that young people have options as to which ones they pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. answer, because we will not get all the content into this I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gower year. I would be interested in the Minister’s views on (Tonia Antoniazzi) on securing this debate. This issue that. We should also have a broader assessment process has affected thousands of our constituents, and I thank that is properly moderated and planned for—not like it the more than 1,000 of my constituents who supported was last year—to ensure it can accommodate people. both petitions. I also thank the teachers, the other If we are honest, we will acknowledge that exams are workers in the school system and everyone who has a crude assessment tool. I am glad to hear about the played a part in keeping our young people safe as they experiences of the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent returned to school. North (Jonathan Gullis), for whom exams were the That happened despite the Government—despite their solution that allowed him to show his academic prowess. failure to prepare over the summer and despite warnings However, we know that that is certainly not the case for from education unions,parents and Members of Parliament other people. How can we really assess an individual’s across different parties. The fiasco over the summer whole learning journey in a few hours? Different people demonstrated a level of incompetence that frankly beggars respond in different ways to assessment, and I believe belief. I hope that the Minister, with his colleagues, will that we need to see how young people can thrive through ensure that lessons are learned from what happened and the assessment process and show off their capabilities, went wrong. It is not enough just to blame the not least because exams are currently the only tool on institutions—Ofqual and others—and not to take which their future depends. responsibility. If politicians are going to blame such The acquisition of knowledge is so important. institutions, they ought to ensure that Ministers are Understanding how to navigate ourselves through this responsible.Ultimately,what happens is down to ministerial complex world with the necessary skills to chart our responsibility. course and to accomplish our goal is the value of Teachers, students and their families have faced nothing education. However, if we never get to enjoy the journey, but anxiety all the way through to the exam period and mature as a person, and gain confidence and the application then through the summer. The Education Secretary had of the tools required, what has been achieved through his head buried in the sand. The reactive, make-it-up-as- our education? you-go-along approach to handling the crisis over the A hybrid assessment tool of moderated assessment, summer—along with others—has damaged young people’s project work, problem-solving challenges, assignment future and left many parents wondering what will happen and exams would stretch pupils further and assess their to their children. broad range of skills, without benefiting only those who In my constituency, where 55% of children live below succeed at exams. At the moment, recovery curricula the poverty line, although the Government promised are being put in place in some schools, but that is not that young people would be given laptops and support, 19WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 20WH

[Rushanara Ali] I will conclude, because I am conscious that the Front-Bench speakers need to come in, but I hope that many have not received the help they need. Up and the Minister will have clear answers and give assurances down the country,manyyoung people who suffer disabilities to our constituents that lessons will be learned and that have not had the help that they desperately need, and there will be an inquiry into what went wrong, so that that is no different in constituencies such as mine. It is we have a proper line of sight on that. The Government important for the Minister to address the question of can then be held to account properly, to ensure that the getting the help and the kit that young people need but young people with exams coming up next year get a have not received. I would be grateful if he provided better outcome. some facts about how many young people are still to receive that. The reports are that, in constituencies such 5.38 pm as mine, they do not have the laptops and are not getting the internet access that they need and that Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab): It is a would make a big difference. pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Stringer. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Gower Findings from the FFT Education Data Lab show (Tonia Antoniazzi) on securing this important debate. that kids from disadvantaged schools are now 22% behind We have had some really important contributions from those from advantaged schools,and there is a big differential Members. My hon. Friend gave an excellent speech, in the impact, with ethnic minority young people grounded in the realities faced by pupils and teachers, significantly worse off. Those in the SEND category and called on the Government to listen to their voices. need much more help. I hope the Minister will address She rightly said that clarity is paramount for everybody that point. involved. Many hon. Members have mentioned the issue of The hon. Member for Bexhill and Battle (Hew Merriman) school results being based on results from previous called on the Government to consider looking at coursework years, which is a massive problem. I have come across a marked by exam boards. My hon. Friend the Member number of cases in my constituency. In one, a student for Slough (Mr Dhesi) spoke eloquently on the confusion received three unclassified grades when he was predicted and chaos that the Government have presided over this two As and a B. That was to do nothing to do with him; year and the heartbreaking stories of university places it was the algorithm making judgments based on past being withdrawn. He also set out how students from exam results. There is an inherent problem with that disadvantaged backgrounds were most likely to be adversely and there must be an inquiry into what went wrong. affected and how Ministers were responsible for hard-baking It is scandalous that the Government chose a system disadvantage into the system. My hon. Friend the Member that discriminated between private schools and state for Barnsley East (Stephanie Peacock) spoke passionately schools, against minority ethnic groups and, ultimately, about the injustice visited on her constituents as a result between social classes. That is shocking. Nobody ever of the Government’s discriminatory actions, and my thought that could happen in this day and age. We hon. Friend the Member for Hornsey and Wood Green must learn the lessons from what went wrong. I hope (Catherine West) expressed her concerns about the impact the Minister will not only give us assurances but that Government actions would have on students’ subject demonstrate precisely how he will ensure that that does choices. not happen again. My hon. Friend the Member for York Central (Rachael The National Foundation for Educational Research Maskell) paid tribute to pupils who have shown found that, while the average learning loss was three extraordinary resilience this year, and she spoke of the months for all pupils, it was four months for children injustice visited on BTEC students, who had to face from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds. such long delays before receiving their results. My hon. We have seen the differential impact on different groups, Friend the Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara with poorer families made worse off by the both the Ali) set out quite clearly that the Government’s economic crisis and the health pandemic and its impact. incompetence over the summer beggars belief, and that Wehave seen the differential impact on BAME communities they should learn from their mistakes. She also spoke and, as others have said, on those with disabilities, eloquently about the disadvantage that children in her particularly children. We need special initiatives from constituency face. the Government to support the groups that have been The petitions that we have been debating today each hit very hard. Whatever our analysis of what happened received almost 150,000 signatures, so it is clear that over the summer, that is surely something we can all these issues are of immense public interest. The Government agree on. We need to ensure that young people are not have presided over a summer of chaos, incompetence condemned by what has happened in the pandemic and and confusion, and their failure to effectively manage that their future is protected. What happened this year the exams and assessments processes for summer 2020 was avoidable and lessons could have been learned. caused enormous anxiety for many children and young Action could have been taken faster. people, as well as their families and teachers. My final point is about test and trace. We need to There were problems from the beginning, with the ensure that it is working properly. I have reports from way in which the Government decided that pupils’ schools in my constituency of whole year groups being grades would be calculated. According to Ofqual, Ministers sent home because test and trace is not adequate. That were repeatedly warned about this issue. At a meeting of cannot be good for ensuring that young people get the the Education Committee in September, Julie Swan, education they deserve and need. The Government executive director of general qualifications at Ofqual, need to get a grip on that, otherwise it will get worse said that the regulator provided advice to Ministers on and become an even bigger problem during the exam 16 March that period. “it would be challenging if not impossible” 21WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 22WH to attempt to moderate estimated grades in a way that to tensions between the Department and Ofqual? Will would be fair for all of this year’s students. She went on he also set out the full range of options for next summer’s to say that exams presented to the Department by Ofqual? “Everyone, throughout the process, was aware of the risks”, The Government have also announced that they will and referred to a paper of the general public sector engage widely with the sector over the next six weeks to ministerial implementation group on 1 May, which identify any risks to exams at national, local and individual highlighted the risk of widespread dissatisfaction with student level, and to consider measures needed to address the grades awarded among individual students, schools any potential disruption. That is really quite remarkable. and colleges, and the risk to public confidence. She also What have the Government been doing, and why have said that Ofqual briefed No.10 on 7 August and held they not been doing this already? Students and teachers regular meetings throughout this period with the Minister really cannot wait any longer for the clarity that they for School Standards. need, yet today, as the leaves outside are turning golden After days of confusion following the A-level results brown, the Government are telling them that more on 13 August, when nearly 40% of students’centre-assessed detail will be published later in the autumn. Precisely grades were adjusted downwards, the Secretary of State when during this season does the Minister have in mind? finally listened to young people, their parents, their The incompetence of the Government is breathtaking. teachers and the Labour party,and allowed centre-assessed We need a Government who are able to plan effectively grades to be used. for next year.Wedo not know how much more school-based Labour tried through an Opposition day debate and teaching time may be lost. However, we know it is likely a vote on the Floor of the House to get the Government that any such loss will be different for different schools to be open and transparent about what Ministers knew, and cohorts of pupils. A group of headteachers who when they knew it and what they did about it when they wrote to me last week highlighted that very point, and were warned of the difficulties. Full disclosure of this said that: information by the Government would at least have “Substantial adjustments need to be made at subject level that enabled students, their families and their teachers to see will ensure those in areas of the country that have been most badly affected by the virus are not further disadvantaged by an what went wrong and why. Although Conservative MPs assessment process that assumes that problems experienced have voted the motion down, the Government’schaotic handling been spread equally”. of the exams process really dented confidence in our What plans do the Government have to address the examination system. matter? As my hon. Friend the Member for Lewisham There are now questions about what happens next West and Penge (Ellie Reeves) has pointed out, five summer and beyond. Petition 320772 called on the education unions have come up with a proposal for Government to reduce curriculum content for year 10 awarding GCSE, AS and A-level grades in 2021. Together, and 12 students who will sit exams next year. It argued the ASCL, the National Association of Head Teachers, that the loss of classroom-based learning cannot be the NASUWT, the National Education Union and the effectively compensated for by the provision of remote National Governance Association have set out learning activities, and that reducing the content will recommendations that include commissioning an give students the opportunity to sit their exams equitably. independent review of what happened this year to In August, Labour called for A-level and GCSE exams learn from when planning what to do next year, and in 2021 to be pushed back to June, to give pupils a publishing contingency plans as soon as possible to better chance to catch up on lost teaching time. On outline how students who are unable to sit exams in the 1 September, the Secretary of State indicated that the summer, or whose education is significantly disrupted, Government would indeed implement a delay to exams. will nevertheless receive robust, reliable grades next Then there was a long period of silence from the year. What assessment have the Government made of Department. the unions’ recommendations? What were the Government doing when they should Today’s announcement could have been made weeks have been providing much-needed clarity to teachers ago. The consultation with the sector that the Government and students about assessment for 2021? The silence now say they will carry out over the next six weeks, to lasted for five and a half weeks, until just two days ago, consider measures needed to address any potential on 10 October, when press reports suggested that the disruption of learning, should have happened already. Secretary of State was expected to announce a three-week The fact that the Government say that they will publish delay in the start of next summer’s exams, alongside a more detail in the autumn will not give students and requirement for schools to hold mock exams in controlled teachers reassurance. It will make them anxious at having conditions earlier in the year, with exam-style invigilating, to wait even longer for answers from the Government. marking and grading. According to those reports, the mock grades could then be used to assess results in Graham Stringer (in the Chair): Minister, we have regions or centres where pupils’ exam preparations had marginally more time than we expected. I would ask been severely disrupted by coronavirus outbreaks, or in you to ensure that there are two or three minutes left at the event of their being unable to sit exams in the summer. the end for winding-up remarks. The Government’s announcement today about the exams for next summer, along with those press reports, 5.47 pm raise a number of questions. Can the Minister say why The Minister for School Standards (Nick Gibb): I speculative reports about next year’s exams appeared in certainly will, Mr Stringer. It is a pleasure to serve the press before an official announcement was made? under your chairmanship, and to respond to the debate Why has it taken the Government almost half of the initiated by the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi). first school term to come up with this statement? Can I congratulate her on securing the debate, and on the the Minister elaborate on reports in the press referring way she introduced it. 23WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 24WH

[Nick Gibb] why we determined that exams will go ahead this year, because as my hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Coronavirus has been causing huge disruption to Battle (Huw Merriman) said, they are the fairest system young people and their families, schools and the wider of assessing pupils’ ability and the work they have done teaching community.The Government have always made in the two years of their course. Our priority now is to the education of young people a priority and, as we all ensure that next year’s exams proceed fairly and efficiently continue to adapt and to progress through the pandemic, and that students gain the qualifications they deserve. we are determined to make sure that, when the time That is the view of the teacher and headteacher unions, comes, young people are able to take the next step in including, I say to the hon. Member for Gower, the their lives with the skills and qualifications that they NEU, as expressed in its letter to the Department on need. At the same time, we must do whatever we can to 2 October, which said: reduce the pressure on all those studying at school or “The government is right, in our view, to pursue a college during an incredibly stressful time. As many ‘Plan A’ which would enable all students to sit exams Members have said in the debate, too much teaching in summer 2021. Students in Year 11 and 13 are time has been lost in the past few months. We are already more than halfway through their courses, and determined that we cannot risk any child’s education must be enabled to complete those courses…As these being put on hold. Today’s announcement of a three-week qualifications are mainly designed to be assessed by delay is only one component, designed to increase teacher final examination, it is right that these exams should go time and help students to catch up. The changes proposed ahead if possible.” by Ofqual to the assessment process, and the £1 billion catch-up fund, are also part of that process. Rushanara Ali: Will the Minister explain the contingency I stress that I understand clearly that the grading plans in the event that testing and tracing is not as situation in summer 2020 caused great stress and effective as it needs to be and exams are disrupted? uncertainty.The Education Secretary and I both understand What is plan B? the distress that it caused young people and their parents. We never wanted to cancel exams. They are obviously Nick Gibb: We are working with Ofqual on viable the best and fairest form of assessment, but we had to assessment options based on a number of different take the difficult decision to close schools and colleges, scenarios, and we will share further details of those in and cancel summer exams, because of the covid-19 good time. We asked Ofqual to support the Government outbreak. We were in uncharted territory in devising an in developing these arrangements, engaging closely with alternative system. The overriding aim was to ensure schools, colleges, teachers, exam boards, unions and that all students received just recognition of their efforts universities. The planning and discussions are ongoing, and that they would be able to progress to the next stage and once we reach a conclusion, we will publish the of their lives in the knowledge that their qualifications results. would have the same value as in previous years. We worked closely with the independent qualifications The hon. Lady also raised issues about remote education. regulator, Ofqual, as it developed a process for arriving The vast majority of children are back in school, but if at calculated grades through a standardisation model, face-to-face education is disrupted, we have made but it became clear that the model was throwing up far 250,000 laptops available, building on the more than too many inconsistent and unfair outcomes for students 220,000 laptops already delivered to those in need. We that might not have reflected their hard work or ability. have also made resources available to deliver online It was not reasonable to expect all those to be dealt with education and we are funding the Oak National Academy, through an appeals system. The outcomes also severely which provides hundreds of online lessons for schools, undermined public confidence in the system, so Ofqual as well as webinars and guidance for teachers on how to and the Government took immediate action. Weannounced deliver remote education in the most effective way. on 17 August the decision to revert to centre assessment grades for all students, or the calculated grade if this Catherine West: The Minister is being extremely generous was higher. That was the best outcome in the difficult with his time. Does he accept that it is particularly circumstances we were in, and the fairest for students difficult for many students on reduced incomes at further and their families. GCSE results were recalculated on education colleges to pay for internet access or devices? that basis and returned to schools on time and within It is hard to write an essay on a mobile phone. What 48 hours of that decision being made. A-level results does he propose to do in those cases? were also recalculated and reissued. Nick Gibb: As the Secretary of State said today, there Stephanie Peacock: The Minister said that students is flexibility in the bursaries available to be used for should receive the fairest grade, but 63% of pupils in those for those purposes. Barnsley had their grades downgraded, compared with 40% nationally, while many private school pupils’ grades We have been working continuously with the exams went up. He says the Government acted quickly, but regulator,Ofqual, the exam boards and groups representing they saw this happen in Scotland and did not anticipate teachers, schools and colleges on the best approach to it happening here; they did not take action and waited exams and assessments in 2021, and we will continue days. This is genuinely affecting the future of many to work together to ensure that exams take place next hundreds of thousands of young people. We need to year. However, we recognise that students continue to make sure it does not happen again. experience disruption to their education because of covid-19, and we need to take account of that, which we Nick Gibb: That is why the decision was taken on are doing. In July, Ofqual consulted on a range of 17 August to revert to whichever was highest of calculated possible adaptations to GCSE, AS-level and A-level grades or centre assessment grades. It is also one reason exams and assessments next year on a subject by subject 25WH Exams: Covid-19 12 OCTOBER 2020 Exams: Covid-19 26WH basis, with the overriding priority of ensuring that the My hon. Friend the Member for Bexhill and Battle exams and assessments are fair. In particular, the was right to raise the issue of lost teaching time, and we consultation proposed a range of ways to free up additional recognise that students, including those who will sit teaching time, including the possibility of a slight delay exams next year, will have experienced disruption. That to the exams timetable, which we have now announced, is why we have the £1 billion catch-up fund, as well as and to accommodate any public health requirements the tuition fund for 16 to 19-year-olds, from which up to next year. £96 million will be allocated for disadvantaged students. On 3 August, Ofqual published its decisions on the To conclude, our approach next year will ensure that changes proposed in the consultation, which include young people can prepare for exams with confidence changes to assessments in some subjects: for example, and receive the extra teaching time and support that removing the requirement to record the spoken language students need to enable them to do their best in their assessment in GCSE English language, and allowing exams, so that they can progress on to the next stage of GCSE students to observe practical science work their education. rather than undertake it. In some subjects with a high 5.58 pm volume of content, such as GCSE history, ancient history and English literature, Ofqual has confirmed Tonia Antoniazzi: I take this opportunity to thank the that exam boards should change how they assess students Minister for his response, and say for the sake of correctness next year by allowing a choice of topics in the exams. that I took my comments from an immediate email that Those changes will reduce pressure on teachers and was received from the NEU this afternoon. students in the next academic year; individually, some To point out a couple of things, I know that the may appear modest, but we believe they will have a petitioners, Jakia Ali and Rafia Hussain, will be very significant impact when combined across subjects, and pleased that we have discussed this today and that they with the three-week delay and the £1 billion catch-up have seen some action, although maybe not exactly fund. what they wanted. I also say to the hon. Member for As it was this year, the most important principle is Bexhill and Battle (Huw Merriman) that I am sure my that students due to sit exams and assessments next son would also have done better if he had sat the summer should be enabled to progress successfully to exams—it is matter of learning style, I think—and the next stage of education or employment. Each of the exams are important, but we have to remember that we elements of content that forms the foundation for are in a pandemic. It is important that we have a GCSE, AS-level and A-level qualifications is important, contingency, and the feeling behind this petition was and while the Government were clear that the content not to have a go at the private education system, but to of GCSEs and A-levels will not be changed in 2021, call for transparency and equality across all education. allowing a choice of topics in certain subjects with a That did not happen this summer, and we and the high volume of content will release teaching time, and Government have to ensure that it does not happen support students and their schools or colleges. As the again; also, the buck stops with the Government, not Education Secretary has confirmed, there will be no with Ofqual. further subject-level changes to exams and assessments Question put and agreed to. this year. That confirmation gives teachers, school leaders Resolved, and pupils clarity on what will be assessed in the exams That this House has considered e-petitions 306773 and 320772 next summer. relating to exams during Covid-19. 27WH 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 28WH Population China’s Policy on its Uyghur Population Conservative estimates suggest that more than 80,000 Uyghurs were transferred out of Xinjiang to work in factories from 2017 to 2019. One factory is [JAMES GRAY in the Chair] given as a case study in the report. It is 6.3 pm “equipped with watchtowers, barbed-wire fences and police guard boxes.” Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): I beg to move, That this House has considered e-petition 300146 relating to The image is dystopian, yet all too familiar for students China’s policy on its Uyghur population. of modern history. Reports of the sites, discipline and It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, workers’ days read more like a prison than a place of Mr Gray. This e-petition was started by Zayd Amjad. It work. They are constantly monitored and threatened asks that the Government impose sanctions on China with longer stints in factories if they do not comply. over its treatment of Uyghur Muslims. Uyghurs are a The surveillance is total. China already takes its Turkic ethnic group native to Xinjiang, China. They are infamous mass surveillance to another level when policing reported to be subject to mass detention, surveillance, its Uyghur population. Movement is restricted and restriction of religious and cultural identities, as well as phones and behaviours monitored in minute detail. other gross human rights abuses. Over 1 million Uyghurs Uyghurs living in China have no privacy. They are even have been forced into re-education camps. required to submit biometric data to the police. Social In the international community, awareness has been media activity, travel and even which door they use to growing of the treatment of Uyghur people, and I know enter their house are all tracked by the police. Identification that it is a cause of concern for many on both sides of cards must be swiped in schools, banks and parks. No the House. We have already had debates in this House movement goes untracked. on the UK’s response to China’s treatment of its Uyghur The Chinese Government have justified the existence population, notably an Adjournment debate led by my of camps and surveillance as a part of measures designed hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Ladywood to prevent religious extremism, but it is not just religious (Shabana Mahmood) and a Westminster Hall debate extremism that the Chinese Government target; it is any led by the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland practising of Islam at all. The events in Xinjiang are a (Mr Carmichael). I also understand that my hon. Friend threat to religious freedom throughout the world. Mosques the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy) has written this have been destroyed, and halal and Ramadan banned. weekend to the Foreign Secretary expressing her views. The signs of religious radicalism laid out include common I thank all of them for bringing this important subject behaviour among devout Uyghur such as the wearing of to the House’s attention. long beards, the study of Arabic and praying outside The strength of feeling in favour of upholding of mosques. Even those who give up alcohol or cigarettes human rights across the world has been shown by the have been branded extremists and are noted by the nearly 150,000 signatures on the petition. At the most authorities. Uyghur Muslims do not have the right to recent UN Human Rights Council in Geneva, the UK their religion, to their bodies, or to freedom of expression. led on a formal joint statement setting out concern The system is policed through directives given to officials about the situations in Hong Kong and Xinjiang, with in Xinjiang. The directives do not mention judicial the support of 27 international partners. The petitioners procedures, but call for the detention of anyone who argue that despite public pressure from the UN and displays so-called “symptoms” of radicalism or anti- growing public awareness, nothing substantial or concrete Government views. The international community should has been done to resolve the crisis and help the Uyghur be gravely concerned. people. The petition therefore argues that the use of Magnitsky sanctions is the most appropriate course of The petition calls for action and asks the Government action. to take any necessary steps to stop such breaches of Reports suggest that the Chinese Government are human rights. It specifically calls for the use of Magnitsky deliberately creating living conditions calculated to bring sanctions, named after the lawyer Sergei Magnitsky, an end to the Uyghur population in Xinjiang. They who was arrested and charged after uncovering Russian include imposing measures intended to prevent births, tax officials had defrauded Hermitage Capital, a company and causing serious bodily and mental harm to members he was advising. In jail, Mr Magnitsky was refused of the group. The suffering that the Uyghur Muslims medical treatment, and there is evidence he was beaten. have undergone, and sadly continue to undergo, is nothing Sadly, he sadly died in police custody in 2009. Since that short of horrifying. The Uyghur people who have escaped time, his former employer, Bill Browder, has campaigned to Turkey have given interviews detailing the fear that for the implementation of Magnitsky sanctions across they lived in in China; they tell of families torn apart, the world. He argues that individual sanctions act as a torture in camps, invasive surveillance, and forced more effective deterrent than broad-based sanctions, and sometimes unknown sterilisation. Detainees in Xinjiang which often have the most impact on the poorest in re-education camps have reported beatings, electric society, not on privileged Government officials. shocks and sleep and food deprivation. Reports of Notably, the first Magnitsky sanctions were enacted women who have faced forced sterilisation and abortions by the United States in 2012. Congress passed the world’s are alarmingly widespread. first Magnitsky Act after efforts by the late Senator The campaign against the Uyghurs is total. Many are John McCain. The Act imposed sanctions on a list of forced into factory labour and transported to factories Russian officials who were believed to be responsible for up to a year before being allowed to return to their for serious human rights violations, freezing any US families. According to a report by the Australian Strategic assets that they held and banning them from entry into Policy Institute, Uyghurs are working in factories, the United States. The UK implemented its version just “Under conditions that strongly suggest forced labour”. this year. It applies to human rights violators around 29WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 30WH Population Population the world. Our laws allow sanctions such as banning Concern over the treatment of Uyghur Muslims is travel to the UK and the freezing of assets of listed widespread in Britain. The Muslim Council of Britain individuals. has urged the Government to take strong action. In a The Magnitsky sanctions are effective because sterling letter to the Foreign Secretary, it voices its fears that, is a valuable global currency to hold. By having their without tangible actions, the abuses will not stop and assets frozen in Britain, sanctioned individuals are unable more lives will be lost. to have assets or continue to do their business. The Our country takes pride in its commitment to uphold sanctions also come with the stigma of no longer being human rights and to fight for equality. To that end, the allowed to enter the country or to own residences. The Government should aim not only to confront China addition of names to the list of sanctioned individuals over its treatment of the Uyghurs, but to encourage is in the power of the Foreign Secretary. Those who can others to do the same. To do nothing in the face of such be sanctioned include people who act on behalf of a human rights abuses is to allow the continuing suffering state to violate other human rights, such as the right not of many. We have an abundance of evidence in the form to be subject to torture, the right to be free from slavery of leaked documents, satellite imagery and the harrowing or forced labour and, above all, the right to life. The testimony of victims. We cannot continue to listen to Government have already used such powers to sanction the mounting evidence and do nothing substantial with it. the killers of the journalist Jamal Washington Post The petition urges the Government not just to speculate Khashoggi, who was murdered in the Saudi embassy in on the sanctions, but to act. As I mentioned, America Istanbul. Also sanctioned were Russian officials who has already taken that step, and we should be looking to were allegedly involved in the mistreatment of Sergei do the same. Sanctions are stronger when more people Magnitsky in a Moscow jail. enforce them. It is our duty to protect those whose Crucially, we have sanctioned organisations that are human rights are being violated. China is undeniably an involved in forced labour in North Korea. Given the economic powerhouse, but we cannot let its strength in evidence that the Uyghur population are being used for world economics shield it so as to allow atrocities and forced labour in Xinjiang, I see no reason why similar human rights violations. sanctions should not be taken out on organisations that benefit from this labour. In fact, our American allies have already implemented sanctions on Chinese James Gray (in the Chair): Order. Before we move on, Government agencies and senior officials who run I point out that one speaker, the hon. Member for companies and farms in Xinjiang province. The suffering Northampton South (), has withdrawn of the Uyghur Muslims is rightly receiving international and, as a result, we have been able to insert between the attention. hon. Members for Harborough (Neil O’Brien) and for Henley (John Howell) the hon. Member for Oxford As the petition mentions, the UN has already made West and Abingdon (Layla Moran). She and the hon. statements regarding the treatment of the Uyghur people. Member for Isle of Wight () will of course The UN statement demanded that the Chinese Government realise that they may not speak from where they are comply with international obligations to respect human sitting at the moment. One seat is available on the rights and freedom of religion. It also called for China horseshoe, if either of them wants it, although the hon. to allow UN human rights monitors access to detention Member for Isle of Wight might need to smarten up centres in order to ensure that human rights standards before he takes his seat there. are being met. Outside Europe, countries also publicly opposed China’s policy in Xinjiang. Malaysia declined to deport Uyghur asylum seekers back to China in 6.16 pm 2019, and Turkey’s Foreign Minister condemned China for its treatment of Muslims in Xinjiang. Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Despite the announcements by the UN and the British Green) (Con): It is a pleasure to serve under your Government’s expressed outrage at China’s policies in chairmanship, Mr Gray. I hope that I am suitably smart Xinjiang, nothing is changing. The British Government to continue— therefore need to realise that more must be done. In response to the petition, they have said: James Gray (in the Chair): Very smart! “We have grave concerns about the gross human rights abuses being perpetrated in Xinjiang.” Sir Iain Duncan Smith: I am glad. That is very kind of Although I am pleased to see the Foreign Secretary you, Mr Gray. speak out against human rights abuses, now is the time for action. Although I understand that imposing sanctions I congratulate the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris on individuals is a difficult process, the petitioners and I Evans) on a powerful speech to begin this brilliant debate. ask that it is expediated as a matter of urgency. It is important that he laid out many of the issues before us, and he did so with great power and oratory. I Along with other countries at the UN, the UK has commend him for that. This is not an issue that should condemned China’s actions, yet Uyghur Muslims in in any way divide those of us who are present today, I China continue to face persecution. The next steps hope, but rather it will unite us, in the best traditions of therefore must be taken to oppose China’s treatment of this House. Uyghurs. The Government have said that they “will continue to urge the Chinese authorities to change their My hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) approach in Xinjiang and respect international human rights asked to be recommended to the debate, although he norms,” was unable to join it. I said I would do so, if you do not but they are not speculating about future sanction mind him being on the record, Mr Gray. It is by the by, designations. Their argument for this is that it because he will not be coming to speak—you do not “may reduce the impact of those future designations.” need to worry about that. 31WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 32WH Population Population [Sir Iain Duncan Smith] the same process. This is not a one-off; it is policy that comes straight down from the Chinese Communist The key thing to say is that the Inter-Parliamentary party and the Government. It is their way of supressing Alliance on China—now formed of 18 countries, from any potential angry rows, debates or pressure, and it is east to west around the world, on the left and on the appalling. right—helped to sponsor Adrian Zenz’s first report on We know about all this stuff. I mentioned the birth the Uyghurs. I am not saying that people were not suppression and the way in which population growth aware of the issue, but the report has reignited it with rates have fallen by 84% in the two largest Uyghur some of his findings. The findings come from official prefectures between 2015 and 2018, and it declined Chinese documents that relate directly to individual further in 2019. Such activities could meet the term officials—I will come back to that, in response to the genocide—I believe that they do. We accept religious point made by the hon. Member for Islwyn about freedoms and freedom of speech, which are normal Magnitsky sanctions, because there are individuals party here, but now alien in China. to this named in the papers by the Chinese Government. If one adds those factors to the way that China is Adrian Zenz made the point clearly that at least behaving in Hong Kong—with the arrest of peaceful 1 million Uyghurs—up to nearly 3 million—have been protestors, their movement back to China for an unfair detained in Xinjiang in the re-education camps. I will hearing and the likelihood of their never being seen not go into the details about the camps, because the again—its threats towards Taiwan, its involvement in hon. Gentleman made those clear, but detainees reported taking over the South China sea, against the UN’s own often being subject to forced labour,political indoctrination statements about its lack of any historic presence in the and torture. Almost 400 internment camps have been area, and its clashes with the Indian army on the border built, with dozens more still under development and yet with India, then we are beginning to see a pattern of to be built. arrogant and determined behaviour by a Government We all saw the film that was shown to the Chinese who care nothing about the reaction of the international ambassador on “The Andrew Marr Show”. The community. ambassador preferred not to recognise anything said to What can we do? The hon. Member for Islwyn touched him, but the reality is that those things were redolent of on the Magnitsky amendments that we have made that a time that we thought had gone—treatment of human apply to officials. The Minister knows that I think there beings that, looking back in history, we thought we had is now enough evidence from Xinjiang and the official finally banished, but not so. The hon. Member for documents to move on many of those officials. I accept Islwyn made all those points about the treatment of the that they are not the top people, but that will send a Uyghurs, the torture, and the forced sterilisation of strong signal to the Government that we, and the rest of Uyghur women, which was exposed in those documents the free world, will no longer tolerate it. and is a shocking tale, and the preferment of non-ethnically That gives us all that we need to start. The House of Uyghur in the Uyghur territories. All are a terrible Lords has added new clause 68 to the Trade Bill. I indictment. publicise that here because it is important. I hope and I want to raise something else, because the long hand believe that we will support the new clause when the Bill of those involved in such repression reaches out way returns to the Commons. The clause makes it clear that beyond China now.About 5,000 Uyghurs live in Australia, we cannot trade with counties that are guilty of genocide. most of them former refugees and their families. They Our High Court will make the decision about whether told a parliamentary inquiry about frequent intimidation there is enough evidence. We will no longer have to and harassment, such as WeeChat calls from family worry about going to the UN to watch the Chinese and members back in China that were held in the presence their allies block that; that will allow us to do it of Chinese law-enforcement people, warning Uyghurs independently.Under the charter we have a responsibility in Australia not to speak unfavourably about the Chinese to act as a nation. Government lest something happen to those family Mr Gray, I will stop now as I know that other members. Members wish to speak. There are a huge number of One Uyghur received a message from the Chinese areas in which we can act, not just in Magnitsky. We can Ministry of Public Security after attending a Tiananmen implement sanctions and mount evidence suggesting Square memorial, warning that his actions would have violations specified by the global human rights sanctions an impact on his family. The wife of the president of the regulations. We can ensure that we implement sanctions Uyghur Association of Victoria said: against officials who are responsible in other areas, such “I have left my homeland but I continue to live in fear. If I as Tibet and even Hong Kong. We need to act in line speak out for my people inside my homeland, I am afraid of with the petition, which has given us clear evidence that retaliation on my family left behind. If I don’t speak out, I feel the British public have formed their own opinion. If we guilty of keeping the freedom and democracy all just for myself in are not careful, we will be running behind them, rather a free country.” than leading them. Our purpose, I believe, is to call this That is shocking. We know beyond doubt that what is out and no longer accept it. As the hon. Member for being done to the Uighur population in Xinjiang province Islwyn said, no matter how much trade is worth to us, it is, in my view, a form of genocide. It is a deliberate is not worth that for the loss of those lives. attempt to eradicate a whole ethnic group. They are not alone. Only a week ago I held a debate James Gray (in the Chair): Order. We have 45 minutes about similar things that are happening to Tibetans. until I call the two Front Benchers. Without applying a During that debate, the right hon. Member for Orkney formal time limit, there are 13 speakers, which means and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) told me that in Inner about four or five minutes each, if that is at all possible Mongolia we are beginning to see the start of exactly and as a courtesy to one another.I call Shabana Mahmood. 33WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 34WH Population Population 6.25 pm of the House of Commons, Labour spokespeople will Shabana Mahmood (Birmingham, Ladywood) (Lab): support that amendment, and I hope that the shadow It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Minister will enlighten us on that today. I hope that the Mr Gray. I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute amendment receives cross-party support, because it is to the debate. It is almost a month since I secured an an important step and is one of the legal innovations Adjournment debate on the plight of the Uyghur people. that I told the Minister we must consider, given that we I had hoped that we would see more progress since that all know that the United Nations is a bit of a busted debate on 9 September. I had hoped that we would see flush on the issue. The Chinese, with their veto in the the imposition of so-called Magnitsky sanctions against Security Council and the buying up of influence we key individuals from the Chinese Communist party, but have seen in the last few years, will be able to ensure that sadly we are no further on, and the plight of the Uyghur any UN process is frustrated and even prevented from people, against whom, I am quite clear, the Chinese getting off the ground. Communist party is perpetrating genocide, becomes Wetherefore need more innovative and legal approaches, ever more desperate. and empowering our own High Court to nullify trade My hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) agreements with regimes where the trade partner is, and the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford with good evidence, believed to have perpetrated a Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) have both given a huge genocide, would be an important step forward. It would amount of detail about what the Uyghurs are suffering be a way for our country, with our long commitment to as a result of the actions of the Chinese Government. the rule of law and to calling out egregious human They have detailed issues around forced sterilisations, rights abuses, wherever they occur in the world, to make the drop in the birth rate—a drop of almost a third in a real contribution. Xinjiang province—mass detentions, slave labour, and I therefore hope that approach has support across the the destruction of culture and heritage. Families are House. I will certainly seek to support it. I hope that being torn asunder, and we all wonder, as we look on in the Government can bring forward such measures. If horror, how much more the Uyghurs will endure as the there are concerns that such mechanisms may be used in world simply watches, impotent and unable to act. vexatious ways before our High Court, may I say to the I have pressed the Minister before on his rationale for Minister that we can come up with thresholds and tests not pursuing Magnitsky sanctions. When I questioned that must be met before the High Court could make him in September, he told me that I was right to press such a declaration? It is, however, an important thing him on this point. I believe that I am right to do so. for us to consider. It is an important step for us to take, Members who make similar arguments about Magnitsky and I hope it will happen. sanctions are right to do so too. It is completely unclear Finally, I have a couple of quick remarks about UK why the Government are still dragging their feet. The supply chains in relation to Chinese production of case for the imposition of sanctions against individuals, personal protective equipment and, in particular,ventilators about whom we have clear evidence, has been made. procured by our Government for use during the pandemic. What is the roadblock? I would like the Minister to There is a clear,real risk that personal protective equipment explain what the roadblock is, because we deserve to and ventilators that have ended up in use in our health know. Too many Members across the House have been system in the last few months, procured at great cost in pressing him on this point, and have got very little out the middle of an international emergency, may well of the Government. have come about as a result of forced labour of the Since that Adjournment debate in September, the Uyghur people. If that is the case, that is an unconscionable Government have moved with lightning speed on the breach. imposition of Magnitsky-style sanctions against individuals We must do much more as a country to ensure that connected to the regime in Belarus and the rigged forced labour, slave labour and the labour of the Uyghur re-election of President Alexander Lukashenko. It was people is not found in either the clothes we wear and the announced that sanctions were being drawn up on technology we use or the kit that our national health 24 September, and they were imposed on 29 September. service uses. Allowing for the international emergency, It took merely days. I contrast that with what is happening there are many more questions for the Government to to the Uyghur people, and the actions that the Government answer about the checks that took place to ensure that are still considering against key individuals in the Chinese Uyghur labour was not being used for the procurement Government. We have many years-worth of evidence, of things now in our health service. I hope that the and months and months of review from our Government, Minister can enlighten us today. but still no action. In my view, all legal tests have been met for our We have heard that the Americans have taken action Government to act. It is time for the Minister to stop and imposed sanctions against key individuals in the repeating the words he has given to all of us before and regime. What is the reason for the UK not following suit? lay out some practical action, because the time has long The legal tests have been met, but perhaps there are political passed for us to act against the Chinese Government. tests—and ever-shifting political tests—that have not been met. If that is the case, that is a low moment for James Gray (in the Chair): That was seven minutes. It our Government. As the right hon. Member for Chingford should be four or five minutes, if at all possible. and Woodford Green has said, no amount of trade can wipe out the actions of a regime that is committed, in the case of the Uyghur population, to genocide. 6.32 pm I echo the remarks that have been made about the (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con): It is amendment tabled by Lord Alton in the Lords to the a pleasure to follow such eminent speakers. I agree with Trade Bill. I hope that when the Bill returns to the Floor so many of the points made that I will skip to others, 35WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 36WH Population Population [Tom Tugendhat] As the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) observed, I first held a debate on the treatment of the Uyghur which have not. We do not seek to hold China to either Muslim population in Xinjiang province in this Chamber a standard that we would not hold ourselves to, or on 29 January last year. It is gratifying to see the indeed one that China has not already agreed to. China number of people attending the debate today, which is has already agreed and signed the international convention an indication of the attention that has come to the issue on the elimination of all forms of racial discrimination, and that interest in it has grown. the convention on the prevention and punishment of I was particularly struck in June when Jewish News the crime of genocide, the UN convention against torture ran a front-page story with the headline “Chilling echoes”. and other cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment, the On 1 October, it ran an editorial revisiting the issue: convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination “When Jewish News ran a front page earlier this year with the against women, the UN convention on the rights of the headline ‘Chilling echoes’—in reference to the abuse of the Uyghurs child, the slavery convention 1926 and the international and parallels with the Shoah—we didn’t do so lightly. Any hint of covenant on civil and political rights. Perhaps most a parallel with the darkest chapter in human history is something importantly, it was China or, rather, a Chinese diplomat we’d always caution against. But the discovery of tonnes of hair who drafted the individual rights into the UN declaration. taken from members of the minority community in China invoked P.C. Chang, then a representative of the Chinese emotions we as Jews simply could not ignore.” Government, held the pen and wrote into international I quote that because the question of genocide, and the law the principles of individual rights that we value so evidence required to establish genocide, is now perhaps highly today. at the centre of this issue and our examination of it. As others said, this time, nobody can say that they were not These are not western values; they are universal values told, that they did not know. There is a growing body of that China has agreed to, that the Chinese state has evidence that what is being done in Xinjiang province to accepted and pledged to obey, and which it is now the Uyghur Muslim population bears all the characteristics violating among one of the ethnic minority populations of a genocide, and that there is a requirement for it to be within its borders. This is not something to which we called out politically, and acted on legally, as a genocide. can look idly by and pretend is not happening, because this is not just about the torture, murder and forced The hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling referenced sterilisation of Uyghur Muslims—it is of course about the UN convention on the prevention and punishment that. It is also not just about the violation of freedom of the crime of genocide. Article 2 outlines the basis on of faith and the repression of the Islamic community which genocide is to be established legally—that it is in western China—and, by the way, the repression of “committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, the Christian community across China. It is also— ethnical, racial or religious group”, fundamentally for this House—about the liberty of the although that should not be treated as an exhaustive British people, whom we are here to represent. Our list. That is to say, to meet the legal definition of ability to represent and to defend the rights and interests genocide, the atrocities committed against the Uyghurs of the people of these islands is contingent on the rights need to be committed with intent to destroy, in whole or and liberties of other people being respected. We cannot in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group. trade and travel freely and fairly if the people of those Consider what has come into the public domain in countries are not free to enjoy the liberties that we think recent months in that regard. The Australian Strategic matter. Policy Institute published “Uyghurs for sale: ‘Re-education’, Anyone who does not think that that is true should forced labour and surveillance beyond Xinjiang.” We ask the family of Michael Kovrig, a Canadian diplomat have the report prepared for the Inter-Parliamentary who worked for the International Crisis Group who Alliance on China by Adrian Zenz, “Sterilizations, IUDs, was arrested and has been detained for two years by the and Mandatory Birth Control”. Wehave further Australian Chinese Government. The Chinese state—this communist Strategic Policy Institute reports: “Cultural Erasure: state—is violating the rights of not only Chinese citizens, Tracing the destruction of Uyghur and Islamic spaces but all citizens, which is why it is right that this House in Xinjiang”and “Exploring Xinjiang’sdetention system”. speak out. Surely, now, on the basis of that evidence gathered by campaign groups around the world, there needs to be a 6.30 pm formal mission to China headed up by the United Nations to gather the evidence in a systematic manner, Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): in order to move forward in a legal, not just a political, It is a pleasure to follow the Chair of the Foreign way. That is the opportunity that we have as a member Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Tonbridge of the United Nations Security Council, and I urge the and Malling (Tom Tugendhat). I thank all those who Minister today to make every progress in that regard. signed the petition to bring this matter to the Chamber this evening. 6.40 pm I do not know whether it is a formally declarable interest or not, but I am co-chair of the all-party Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab): In debates such as parliamentary group on Uyghurs. My co-chair, the hon. this, it is an honour to follow the right hon. Member for Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi), would Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), who rightly be here, but she is shielding. It is worth reflecting that quoted a newspaper on what the Jewish community has this is another instance demonstrating that the current said. My speech is about genocide and whythe Government procedures for participation in House business perhaps are not calling it what it is. require another visit. In fact, the same is true of the We often stand in Westminster Hall or the other hon. Member for Wealden (Ms Ghani), who takes a Chamber and say, “Never again”, but the truth is we close personal interest in these matters. continue to have to say it. We have seen many other 37WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 38WH Population Population genocides, but, with reference specifically to the Uyghurs, Rwanda and said, “Never again.”Weleft UN peacekeepers mounting evidence has shifted international attention unsupported, despite their concerns that there would be on to Xinjiang. The Chinese Government admitted to war crimes in Srebrenica, and afterwards we again said, the existence of the camp only when it was discovered. “Never again.” We saw acts of genocide against the They sought to justify it under the pretext of national Yazidis in Syria, we debated that genocide in its aftermath, security, vocational training and re-education. The reality and we said again, “Never again.” In Myanmar, we have of those so-called vocational training and education seen acts of genocide against the Rohingya population, centres is far more sinister. The Inter-Parliamentary leaving the survivors stateless, and once more we Alliance on China has stated: said, “Never again.” At some point, we need to stop “A body of mounting evidence now exists, alleging mass saying, “Never again.” We need to learn from history, incarceration, indoctrination, extrajudicial detention, invasive identify these things when we see them happening and— surveillance, forced labor”. crucially—we must act. The testimony of witnesses and survivors is even more disturbing. We have learned that Uyghur women have 6.45 pm been subjected to forced contraception, abortion and Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield) (Con): As a British sterilisation, including forced removal of their wombs. Muslim, I know that Islam is based on ideals of peace, There are also reports detailing that horrific abuses equality,loyalty,justice and, most importantly,submission have been uncovered, such as Muslims being forced to to the will of Allah. This is also true for Uyghur drink alcohol, eat pork and convert from the religion of Muslims; they are no exception. Yet despite their peaceful their choice, yet despite the intelligence and testimonies, characteristics, hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs find and the fact that China is hiding its actions in plain themselves suffering cultural and religious annihilation sight, our Government fall short of acknowledging that at the hands of the Chinese Communist party, and acts of genocide are taking place. among their number are also Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Christians Recent reports and analysis of satellite images reveal and adherents of Falun Gong. that the Chinese Government continue to construct Sadly, there is a growing mountain of evidence to new internment camps, displaying an unwavering desire support claims that the Chinese Communist party is to continue their campaign of genocide against the seriously violating the human rights of these people. As Uyghur people. It is clear that the Government’s stance the United Kingdom, it is our moral duty to verify and is not working. The co-founder of the Coalition for document these human rights violations. As we have Genocide Response points out that if a state does not heard, up to 1 million Uyghur Muslims and other make a formal determination of genocide, it will be less Turkic Muslims have been rounded up and put in likely to fulfil its duty to prevent or stop the genocide. re-education camps, where they are subject to political The Government must, in the interim, be able to make indoctrination, forced sterilisation and torture. Such the determination to respond accordingly to atrocities. extermination goes well beyond the Uyghur people. The Much has been said about the Magnitsky amendments CCP is intent on destroying non-Han Chinese cultural and I will push the Minister to respond. What is stopping identity and history. Revered religious sites and mosques us applying those measures, which should be imposed have been demolished, under supposed mosque rectification on those involved in human rights abuses in Xinjiang? campaigns, while others with distinctive architectural Alarmingly, as China asserts its dominance among features, such as minarets and domes, have been moved, global economies, it has been accused of benefiting as part of a campaign to Sinocise Islam. from the fruits of the forced labour of the Uyghur According to CNN, since 2018, over 100 Uyghur people.A coalition of up to 180 human rights organisations cemeteries have been destroyed and relocated, including has said: one that was transformed into a car park. Indeed, in “Virtually the entire apparel industry is tainted by forced response to a written question that I submitted to the Uighur…labour”. Minister who is here today, he said that British diplomats Alongside imposing sanctions, the Government must themselves had verified in person much of this destruction. go further and seek out brands based here in the UK We know that the Uyghur language is being banned that are profiteering from the exploitation of the Uyghur in Xinjiang schools and that practising Islam is discouraged, people. My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, shall we say, because it is seen as a sign of extremism. Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) referred to medical UNESCO has called this process “strategic cultural equipment in that context. The Government should cleansing”. The cultural genocide is nothing other than remind brands of their ethical responsibility and impose an attempt to remove the Uyghurs and further cement corporate accountability on them. Their supply chains Han Chinese supremacy. In 2018, an official in Xinjiang are propping up China’s genocide against the Uyghur. said on state media that the aim of these policies was to Unless China is forced to act by unflinching political, “break their lineage, break their roots, break their connections commercial and legal action from the Government, and break their origins”. nothing will change. Indeed, China is a signatory to the If that is not bad enough, there is a further point that 1948 universal declaration of human rights, and it must I believe it is our duty to bring to the public’s attention be reminded of its obligations. We have witnessed time and it is nothing other than the evil of slavery. These and again the direction that the road of religious and re-education camps conceal slavery, and slavery has ethnic hatred takes us in. Our inaction also means that seeped into almost every part of the Chinese economy. we all know how it ends—with the deaths of countless In addition to the exports that China sends to the innocent men, women and children. United Kingdom and our allies around the world, in How many more times are we going to have debates July, as we have heard, the United States seized a where right hon. and hon. Members pledge “never shipment of 13 tons of human hair products coming again”? In my lifetime, we have witnessed genocide in from China, allegedly from Xinjiang camps. 39WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 40WH Population Population [Imran Ahmad Khan] could hide behind the linguistic excuse. Shame on us if we choose that path, because the Chinese Government’s Slavery and forced labour in any capacity are repugnant actions must be stated as what they are: a systematic to us all. The idea that, unwittingly, citizens of this and calculated programme of ethnic cleansing against country—in Wakefield and elsewhere—are purchasing the Uyghur people. Chinese goods and thereby becoming a partner of this An independent tribunal is under way, chaired by Sir evil industry must be rooted out and we must take a Geoffrey Nice QC. Government endorsement of the stronger view on it. So, the Magnitsky-style sanctions are findings, whatever they may be, is surely the moral and a step in the right direction and should be used against necessary action to take. Organising and leading an those involved in the imprisonment and enslavement of international tribunal would be even stronger. No one Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other minorities. However, we could leave this debate anything other than horrified at must go further and do our utmost to prevent the the situation in Xinjiang. Condemning the world’s next supply chain that we are involved in from having any superpower is easy. Taking action is much harder. If we link to the abhorrent practice of slavery. look on, history will condemn our unforgivable cowardice It pains me that most Muslim-majority countries and ask why those in power did not act. This is a heavy around the world have stayed largely silent. As a Muslim, burden for the Minister, but he is the person in the chair that is a cause of great upset and regret. If it is left to us, in a position of influence. Warm words are simply not Britain must become the champion and defender of enough because this time no one can say that they did liberty, freedom, tolerance and pluralism for peoples not know. around the world, and must stand up against tyranny, oppression and persecution wherever they are found, 6.53 pm whether in China or in Muslim-majority countries. Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab): I am pleased to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray, Several hon. Members rose— and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for James Gray (in the Chair): Order. Several Members Islwyn (Chris Evans) on securing the debate. wish to speak. They have three minutes each. I call The fight to prevent genocide is a subject close to my Siobhain McDonagh. heart, as it is to all Members in this debate and many others across the House. I have vivid memories of observing as a teenager what happened during the 6.50 pm Bosnian and Rwandan genocides. Since becoming a Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab): Member of Parliament, I have campaigned on the Thank you, Mr Gray. I defer to the great knowledge of genocide committed by the Myanmar Government against Members in this room. My own interest and involvement the Rohingya people. Many other examples that we in the plight of the Uyghurs come from watching the have all witnessed in the past echo what has been Andrew Marr interview with the Chinese ambassador happening recently. in July. The flagrant denial of oppression in Xinjiang We have seen in recent years that despite our proud was almost as terrifying as the images and videos that record as a country in standing up against human rights accompanied the interview on screen: row after row of violations, systematic discrimination, ethnic cleansing men blindfolded with their heads shaven, waiting to be and genocide, our Government have been found wanting. loaded on to trains. The images were so shocking that We have seen that from the failure of the British they play on one’s mind for days and weeks, and even Government, with the international community, to act now. The similarities, as so many have said, between in relation to what was happening with the Rohingya that video and historic footage of Nazi concentration Muslims. I draw that parallel because it is vital that we camps are truly chilling. All of us rightly remember and learn the lessons of our recent history. Many of us reflect on the sickening and frightening ways in which warned our Government to act: not to remove sanctions humans treat one another, and we pledge that it must against the Myanmar Government prematurely as they never happen again. Now that the world is presented made the transition towards democracy, even when the with such overwhelming evidence of gross human rights US was not doing it. abuses, nobody can turn a blind eye. This time, we see the US taking a leadership role and Some 141 parliamentarians, including some Members our Government dithering once again. I hope the Minister in this debate, joined me in publicly expressing absolute will step up and, if he is being prevented from speaking condemnation of such oppression in an open letter to out against what looks like another genocide, talk to his the ambassador after his interview. More than a month boss and ask him to take genocide much more seriously. on, we have still not received a reply. In the meantime, There is no more serious issue than what is happening shocking testimony and frightening reports have filled in Myanmar, as well as in China with the Uyghur our in-boxes and our screens, each more terrifying than population. the last. There are accusations of torture, the forced I am incredibly grateful to right hon. and hon. Members abortion of babies, the sterilisation of women and the from across the House for debating this issue because removal of their wombs. A genocide of the Uyghurs is despite all our efforts, we failed to get accountability happening before our eyes. and action to prevent the exodus, punishment and The Minister knows how important the word “genocide” persecution of hundreds of thousands of Rohingya is in international law. He might even be under strict Muslims. We ultimately saw a million forced out of instructions not to use that word here today, but he will their country in 2017, and we saw the plight of that know how unlikely it is that the world will arrive at a group, yet even today—again, there is a parallel—our definition, given the countries that sit in the United Government fail to support the actions of the Government Nations and the veto that they hold. A cowardly country of Gambia, who are leading an International Court 41WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 42WH Population Population of Justice case on that issue. I hope that as we move the Secretary of State my congratulations to him on the forward, we will learn those lessons and ensure that in work that he has been doing at the United Nations on relation to China, our Government show the courage of this issue. their convictions and take action to prevent another I am a trustee of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust. genocide. That might not sound particularly relevant to the debate, but the trust concentrates on genocides and other similar 6.56 pm activities that have occurred since the second world war Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD): It and that continue today. It is an organisation that goes is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. out of its way to ensure that the “never again” message We have three minutes in which to cover a huge amount, is heard very loudly. so I will just say that I agree with literally everything I A number of right hon. and hon. Members have have heard so far. I think it is wonderful how this place asked for Magnitsky sanctions to be imposed on China. comes together to represent what I think is, as we are I know a bit about Magnitsky sanctions, because I seeing, the enormous, heartfelt, emotional view of our spoke about this issue in January 2019 at the Council of constituents and the country as a whole. Europe, on a motion raised by Lord Donald Anderson—a Today, in addition to continuing to make the case socialist motion that was put forward on which we that we must call this a genocide and that we must get could all agree. There was nothing that separated us on on with Magnitsky sanctions, I want to focus on the this issue. fact that we all have power because we are all consumers. The thing about Magnitsky sanctions is that they As has already been mentioned by the hon. Member for need to identify people. We cannot use them just to Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood), there attack a country; we have to use them to attack an are issues with the procurement of PPE and ventilators, individual group of people. Can the Minister tell us but the apparel industry is also well-trodden ground. It how close we are to having identified people in China is estimated that one in five cotton garments from on whom we can impose the Magnitsky sanctions, so anywhere in the world has touched this supply chain, that we can get this thing moving? and when this has been looked into by the Associated As somebody else has already said, it is not just a case Press, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, and others of doing the Magnitsky sanctions and then forgetting including the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, some about it. We also need to do as much as we can in other of the names of the list of companies are shocking. areas. That is difficult for us to do as the UK; we need to I will name and shame a few: they are public services, have the co-operation of other countries. Clearly, the people will love me for it, and I will not be able to do opponents of our actions against China have also got more because I am going to run out of time. I ask their acts together—we saw Belarus, Iran and Zimbabwe anyone who might be listening to please look on my among the group that is leading on this. The action that Twitter feed. Those companies include Amazon, Calvin we take with other countries can be far more powerful Klein, Esprit, Fila and Gap. They include H&M—I was than if we try to do it alone. really sad to read that—and Ikea. Who does not have Ikea in their homes? They also include Nike, Polo Ralph Lauren, Puma, Skechers, Tommy Hilfiger, Uniqlo, 7.2 pm Victoria’s Secret and Zara, and that is not the full list. Dr Kieran Mullan (Crewe and Nantwich) (Con): As In addition to the apparel industry, we know that right hon. and hon. Members have described, what is there is movement of workers from these internment happening to the Uyghur people in Xinjiang is absolutely camps to factories across China that, in turn, touch the abhorrent and cannot be ignored. The Global Human supply chains of other types of companies. Those include Rights Sanctions Regulations 2020 give us a means Amazon, Apple, BMW, Dell, Gap, Jaguar Land Rover, “to deter, and provide accountability for,” Mercedes-Benz, Microsoft, Nintendo and Nokia, and the list goes on. I want these companies to take up what the kinds of activities that China is carrying out. The I am saying, and take issue with what is happening. This regulations say that people have the right was raised with Adidas and Lacoste, and to their credit “not to be subjected to torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading they have now agreed to cut ties with the implicated treatment or punishment,” suppliers and contractors as a result of that public and that they have the right pressure. I hope that has added to the public pressure “to be free from slavery, not to be held in servitude or required to on those other companies. perform forced or compulsory labour”. As I say, people need to look up the full list. They Given the clear abuses being carried out by China have power as consumers; we have power in this place as against the Uyghurs, which have been described by right well, and the Government have power. I believe the hon. and hon. Members, I urge Ministers to consider Government should now be looking at those international how the regulations can be used to help bring an end to supply chains. We are doing it with forests; we can do it this situation. The Magnitsky-style sanctions would with human rights. I ask the Minister whether he will honour the request of the petition and show the UK’s agree to meet with me at some other time so that we can commitment to protecting global human rights. discuss this further, because I think this might be one of Of course, we MPs and the Government are facing the ways in which every single person can act quickly. an enormous challenge right now, and many of our constituents expect us to be focused on that challenge. I 6.59 pm wanted to attend the debate and speak briefly, because John Howell (Henley) (Con): I would like to say how history is watching us. What is happening in Xinjiang is much I welcome the British Government’s refocusing of historic significance. We have seen the power of the on human rights. I hope the Minister will take back to modern state wielded against its own people before, 43WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 44WH Population Population [Dr Kieran Mullan] Finally, on China’s surveillance state, there are two models for the 21st century for humanity: first, there is with the result being millions killed in factories of the western liberal model, however tarnished and however death. People who hesitate to make that comparison much Google and Facebook try to privatise all our should remember that that stain on human history personal information. That is still the great hope for began with the erosion of rights, mass detention and humanity: government under law; politicians under law; forced labour. We are now seeing the power of the with people at least nominally sovereign, and hopefully modern state supercharged in the digital age and the supreme over them. The alternative is the model that we age of surveillance. see in the new authoritarian states, primarily , but also China, of a surveillance system that is made We must be honest with ourselves: there are no much more powerful by big data, artificial intelligence simple solutions to what we are discussing, and we are and politicians who want to engineer dissent out of not in a position to rescue the situation alone, just as we humanity. That is what we are seeing in China—we are were not able to do so in world war two. We will need to seeing the sharp edge of that not only in Tibet but in work with others. Even then, the task is incredibly Xinjiang province, so there is much to play for in the daunting. However, I want China to know that we are 21st century. watching—this House is watching, and the world is watching. History has shown us that simply disapproving from afar is not enough to stop regimes of this nature. 7.7 pm We must find further ways to act. We must stand up, Stephen Kinnock (Aberavon) (Lab): It is a pleasure to and we must be counted. serve under your chairmanship, Mr Gray. I thank the Petitions Committee for securing this vital debate. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Islwyn (Chris 7.4 pm Evans) for making such a powerful and passionate Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con): I promise to keep speech to introduce the debate, and my hon. Friends the my jacket on for the whole sitting, Mr Gray. Members for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood), for Bradford West (Naz Shah), for Mitcham I am going to mention three things briefly, slightly and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh), and for Bethnal echoing other Members: first, consistency; secondly, Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali), who made compelling forced labour; and thirdly, China’s surveillance state. contributions, both passionate and forensic. Members Before I begin, I congratulate my right hon. Friend the across the House have shown today that there is no Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain doubt about the strength of feeling in Parliament. Duncan Smith) on the work that IPAC has been doing to bring all these things to light. I also congratulate my The plight of the Uyghur people is a scar on the hon. Friend the Member for Wealden (Ms Ghani) on conscience of the world—of that there can be no doubt— her work. My hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and the fact that the Chinese Government continue to and Malling (Tom Tugendhat), the Chair of the act with impunity leaves us all with a sense of burning Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, will lead an inquiry injustice. It is vital and urgent that the international on the Uyghurs, and I look forward to participating community comes together to speak with one voice, and in that. to say loud and clear to Beijing, “We will not stand idly by while Uyghur people are imprisoned in these so-called Consistency is important. We lack capacity to change re-education camps. We will not look the other way in China’s policy, but recognition of what is happening is response to reports of the forced sterilisation of Uyghur important in its own right. Not to recognise it and avoid women. We will not react with indifference to any it, and avoid discussing it, puts us in moral jeopardy. efforts to destroy the Uyghur language, culture and way Recognising that something is happening—it may be an of life.” obvious statement—is the first step in actually being able to do something. That brings me on to forced It is equally vital and urgent that the UK Government labour. We can all be outraged, but outrage—there is an take a leadership role in convening and co-ordinating awful lot of it in Parliament, especially on foreign the international response. Our greatness as a country is affairs questions—does not necessarily produce anything. based on our resolute and unshakeable commitment to What could produce something is some kind of work human rights and the rule of law. The British people on forced labour. Freedom from oppression should be know that if our country is to be a force for good in the one of our new foreign policy goals. world, those values must be applied universally.Regrettably, attempts to show leadership on this issue are handicapped I would love to know what the Government are doing by the fact that, for several years now, the approach of on the issue of forced labour. Are they preparing a successive Conservative Governments to China has been report on the issue of supply chains and forced labour? naive and complacent. If not, why can we not do so? One hundred or 200 Members of Parliament, as the hon. Member for Oxford In 2015, and West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) said, could highlight announced a new golden era in Sino-British relations. western firms that profited from forced labour, and we The premise was simple. The UK would open its markets could write to all those people. I know of Huawei, as I and infrastructure to China and in return Beijing have said, but there are many others, as she pointed out. would reciprocate, while integrating with the rules-based If wrote to all those people and said, “Do you really international order. want your customers to wear the product of slave Fast forward five years and where do we stand? We labour?”, we would not necessarily need Government to are still running a £19 billion trade deficit with China, act, because we could act ourselves. I wonder whether and the Chinese Government have dealt a hammer that is something that collectively we could do. blow to democracy in Hong Kong, committed egregious 45WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 46WH Population Population human rights abuses in Xinjiang and Tibet, and stepped pressure must be applied, and we therefore urge the UK up their military activities in the South China sea. The Government to publicly oppose China’s election to the fact of the matter is that the golden era strategy has UN Human Rights Council in the forthcoming elections, been an unmitigated failure. Successive Conservative and to hold firm to that position until such time as Governments have rolled out the red carpet for Beijing Beijing provides the High Commissioner with access to in the hope of reciprocity and constructive engagement, Xinjiang. but the past five years have seen the emergence Secondly, the Government must deploy Magnitsky of a China that increasingly pursues policies that sanctions against senior CCP officials who are responsible undermine international norms and violate what should for human rights abuses in Xinjiang. The Minister will be international and universal values. say that that is under review and should not be rushed We have deep respect for China’s history, culture and but, frankly, that is not good enough. MPs have been civilisation, and we fully acknowledge and recognise its expressing concerns about the plight of the Uyghur great power status. The relationship between the peoples since 2017, and the Magnitsky legislation was passed in of the UK and China is deep, of long standing and 2018. I therefore encourage the Minister to provide valued by both. There is a pressing need to improve some clarity: what is the real cause of this mysterious mutual understanding and friendly co-operation, but delay, and can the Opposition be of any assistance in the Chinese leadership must understand that their breaching removing the roadblock, whatever it is, so that the of international law and violation of human rights Government can get on with taking long-overdue action? benefits no one, least of all themselves. China is deeply Thirdly, the Government should explore additional integrated into the global economy, and it needs legal avenues for challenging what is happening in Xinjiang, globalisation to work for its people, just as much as we including an assessment of whether China’s actions do. But if it continues to pursue zero-sum policies that constitute a violation of the 1984 convention against place dominance ahead of consensus and crushing one’s torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment critics ahead of compromise, the international community or punishment, to which China is a state party. The will have no choice but to toughen its stance by exerting Government must consider infringement procedures if further political, diplomatic and economic pressure on such a determination is made. Beijing. Fourthly, the Government must publicly support the Against that backdrop, we call on the UK Government UN International Law Commission’s draft convention to commit to a fundamental strategic reset in Sino-British on the prevention and punishment of crimes against relations. We must seek constructive engagement based humanity, which would close an important gap in on mutual respect, but respect is a two-way street. The international law. leadership of the Communist party of China respects Fifthly, as many hon. Members have raised today, the strength and unity, and it is contemptuous of weakness Government must mobilise action across Whitehall to and division. We must find ways to co-operate with the ensure that British businesses conduct thorough due Chinese Government on crucial global issues such as diligence of supply chains, such that British companies climate change and pandemics, while also challenging withdraw without delay from any and all supply chains them when they undermine international law. that potentially involve forced labour or other human To achieve that, the following needs to happen. First, rights abuses. I trust that the Minister will give careful we must rebuild our strategic independence. Successive consideration to those recommendations, in terms of ConservativeGovernmentshaveleftourcountryover-reliant both the fundamental reset that is required, and the on supply chains that originate in China and open to specific issues with Xinjiang province. hostile takeovers by Chinese state-backed enterprises and investment vehicles. The UK is now dependent on China for 57 categories of goods that relate to our 7.16 pm critical national infrastructure. This over-reliance on The Minister for Asia (Nigel Adams): I am grateful to China dramatically diminishes our ability to stand up the Petitions Committee for this debate, to the hon. for our interests and project our values. There needs to Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans) for introducing it and be a far more joined-up approach across Whitehall on to all colleagues for their contributions. There is, rightly, these issues. deep public concern about the issue, so I am also Secondly, the UK Government need to build an grateful to the 146,000 members of the public who alliance of democracies to champion co-operation based signed the petition and enabled this debate to take on shared values and promoting human rights. Successive place. We have heard the strength of feeling in the Conservative Governments since 2016 have shown that House about Xinjiang, and I will respond to as many as they are adept at burning bridges. This Government possible of the points that have been made. must now show that they know how to rebuild trust I assure the House that we closely and constantly with our European allies while engaging more effectively monitor the situation in Xinjiang. As we have heard with democratic governments, particularly in the Indo- and read, and as we acknowledge, there have been Pacific region. harrowing reports and evidence of gross human rights I turn to the mass atrocities that are taking place in violations. Analysis of satellite images suggests that the Xinjiang. We urge the Government to take the following Chinese authorities continue to construct internment actions. First, it is imperative that the UN High camps and demolish mosques and other religious sites. Commissioner for Human Rights is given full and Those are systematic restrictions on Uyghur culture unfettered access to Xinjiang and the Uyghur people and religion. We heard from my hon. Friend the Member who are being detained there, so that the true scale and for Isle of Wight (Bob Seely) about the extensive and nature of the crimes can be established and documented. invasive surveillance operation that targets minorities. For that to be possible, far more intense and co-ordinated We have also seen credible evidence of forced labour 47WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 48WH Population Population [Nigel Adams] policy of the UK Government that any judgment as to whether war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide —that was raised by most Members this afternoon—and have occurred is a matter for judicial decision. the Chinese Government’s own figures show a dramatic In the time I have left, I will turn to remarks and decrease in population growth in Xinjiang over the past comments made by right hon. and hon. Members. The three years. hon. Member for Islwyn introduced the debate in his I will now set out the Government’s position on typically eloquent style, raising many of the concerns global human rights sanctions. On 6 July, as right hon. that we all share about the plight of the Uyghur people. and hon. Members will be aware, we established the I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for global human rights sanctions regime. In a statement to Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) Parliament, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary on the work he does with IPAC and his persistent set out the full scope of the UK’s new global human championing of this cause. rights sanctions regime. He was clear, and I reiterate The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana this today, that it is not appropriate to speculate on Mahmood) was absolutely right to raise the points that future designations under that regime. As I have said she did, but I politely suggest that it is not correct to say before and as the Foreign Secretary made clear, to do so that we are no further on. Our actions at the UN last could reduce the impact of such designations. However, week, alongside 38 other countries, are an example of I make it absolutely clear that that is under constant that. She raised the issue of forced labour, as did most review. Members.The reports are credible.The Australian Strategic On 9 September, during an Adjournment debate on Policy Institute report, which the FCO part-funded, Xinjiang, I stated that the Foreign, Commonwealth and estimated that 80,000 Uyghurs were transferred out of Development Office is carefully considering further Xinjiang to work. designations under the sanctions regime. We will keep all the evidence and the potential listings under close We are committed to eradicating modern slavery and review. Our position on that remains unchanged. forced labour. The Modern Slavery Act 2015 made the UK the first country to require businesses to report Let me be clear that we are committed to responding how they identify and address modern slavery risks in robustly to all human rights violations in Xinjiang. We their operations and supply chains, as hon. Members have played a leading role within the international have mentioned. Businesses with an annual turnover of community to hold China to account. We have led two more than £36 million are required to publish an annual joint statements at the UN in the past year, including a modern slavery statement, and we are developing a statement at the UN Human Rights Council in June registry of modern slavery statements. that was supported by 28 countries. Last week, on 6 October, 39 countries joined our statement at the UN Bob Seely rose— third committee in New York, expressing deep concern at the situation not just in Xinjiang, but in Tibet and Nigel Adams: I will take my hon. Friend’s intervention, Hong Kong. We believe this growing caucus reflects our but there is a slight risk that I will not have time to cover diplomatic leadership, including the personal involvement all the contributions made by other hon. Members. of our Foreign Secretary. Outside the UN, we have lobbied around the world to Bob Seely: I thank the Minister for giving way. I have raise awareness of the issue and underlined the critical a very quick question. Are companies actually abiding need for an international response. We have supported by the law? We have this great law, but a lot of forced that by funding third-party research to increase the labour seems to be taking place. evidence base and international awareness, and by sharing our analysis of the situation on the ground, although Members will appreciate that getting access to Xinjiang Nigel Adams: It is absolutely the case that companies is incredibly difficult. On 25 September, the UK dedicated need to abide by the law. More can be done in this area, its entire national statement at the UN Human Rights and we are developing further measures. The Home Council to human rights violations in China. That is Office announced on 22 September a series of new only the second time the UK has dedicated its national measures to strengthen the Modern Slavery Act. These statement to a single country, the first being about measures require legislative change, which will be brought Russia in 2018 following the poisonings in Salisbury. forward as soon as parliamentary time allows. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has raised There were some excellent contributions from my our serious concerns about Xinjiang directly with his hon. Friends the Members for Tonbridge and Malling Chinese counterpart on a number of occasions, most (Tom Tugendhat)—the Chairman of the Foreign Affairs recently on 28 July, and I have raised them directly with Committee—for Henley (John Howell), for Crewe and the Chinese ambassador in recent months. We continue Nantwich (Dr Mullan), for Isle of Wight and for Wakefield to raise awareness of the human rights violations in (Imran Ahmad Khan), and from the hon. Members for Xinjiang with UK businesses. We impress upon them Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh) and for the need to act in line with the expectations set out in Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali). The hon. the UK national action plan on business and human Member for Bradford West (Naz Shah) referred eloquently rights. That means conducting due diligence to make to genocide. Again, any judgment as to whether war sure that they are not contributing to any human rights crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide have occurred violations, including the use of forced labour in their has to be a judicial matter. supply chains. My hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield referred Several right hon. and hon. Members have raised the to strategic cultural cleansing. The freedom to practise, question of genocide. The term genocide has a specific change or share one’sfaith or beliefs without discrimination definition in international law, and it is the long-standing or violent opposition is a human right that all people 49WH China’s Policy on its Uyghur 12 OCTOBER 2020 China’s Policy on its Uyghur 50WH Population Population should be able to enjoy. He was also right to highlight we will always act to uphold our values, our interests the lack of condemnation from predominantly Muslim and our national security. We are crystal clear with countries of the oppression of the Uyghurs. I am sure China when we disagree with its approach. that his powerful voice will have been heard today. 7.28 pm Rushanara Ali: The Minister mentions genocide. A clear-cut International Court of Justice case is currently Chris Evans: This is one of the rare occasions when I ongoing, but the UK Government refuse to back it. am proud to be a Member of this House. Today, I feel What test has to be passed before our Government—a as though we have spoken with one voice—a powerful penholder in the UN on Burma—are likely to act? That and passionate voice. I hope it is heard when the Minister is the problem: constant excuses. is dealing with his international counterparts. However powerful China is, or thinks it is, we in this House will Nigel Adams: I know how powerfully the hon. Lady not accept any reason for undermining someone’s human feels about this issue, but, as I say, there is a specific rights, because if one person’s human rights are denied, definition in international law, and any decision has to everybody’s human rights are denied. be judicial. I am sure that this will come up in the The Minister and I have known each other for a long future, and I am more than happy to meet the hon. time now—10 years, I think—and I know that he will Lady to discuss it. stand up. I know that in the international community he The hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock) has to work within the international framework, but I asked whether we would publicly oppose China’s election hope that if he finds businesses engaging in modern to the United Nations Human Rights Council this slavery, repressing people’s rights or committing any week. He will be aware that we never comment on other human rights abuses, he will let them know that voting in UN elections, which are conducted by secret they will feel the full might of the Government. ballot. The UK has been absolutely clear with China The hon. Member for Henley (John Howell) mentioned about our grave concerns in relation to Xinjiang. As I the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust. This year, the theme said, on 6 October we joined 38 other countries to call of Holocaust Memorial Day, which was on 27 January, on China to allow immediate and unfettered access for is about shining a light in the darkness. With this debate independent UN observers. and those that preceded it, I really hope that we have I know that I have to give the hon. Member for shone a light on human rights abuses. We say to any Islwyn a couple of minutes, so I will wrap up. I reiterate country, however powerful, that we will not take that. that we cannot speculate on future designations under The Minister can go away from this debate knowing our sanctions regime. China must immediately end that whatever sanctions he wishes to impose, he will extrajudicial detention in Xinjiang and uphold the principles have the full support of the House. of freedom of religion or belief, freedom of speech and freedom of association for every single one of its citizens. 7.30 pm As the Prime Minister and Foreign Secretary have made Motion lapsed, and sitting adjourned without Question clear, we want a positive relationship with China, but put (Standing Order No. 10(14)).

1WS Written Statements 12 OCTOBER 2020 Written Statements 2WS

The scheme will pay a grant to the employer calculated Written Statements based on the number of eligible employees who cannot work at the relevant premises—which has been required Monday 12 October 2020 to close by Government. Employers will only be able to use the scheme for employees who have been instructed to cease work—paid or unpaid for that employer. TREASURY Eligible employees cannot work for a minimum of seven consecutive (or calendar) days. An employee can return at a later date. Claims must not overlap and must Job Support Scheme and Local Restrictions be made monthly in arrears. These payments will be Support Grant taxable, and employers will be required to cover employer NICS and automatic enrolment pension contributions in full, where applicable, but are not required to make The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Rishi Sunak): Following further contribution to wage costs. However, employers my announcement on Friday 9 October that I am can top up employee pay if they wish. expanding the job support scheme (JSS), and increasing the generosity and frequency of local restrictions support In line with JSS payments for hours not worked, the grants, I am pleased to share more detail of these grant per eligible employee available from the UK schemes and how this Government are supporting and Government is two-thirds of their normal pay up to a protecting jobs and livelihoods. limit of £2,100 per month. Further detail on how normal pay is calculated will be set out in guidance. If an The JSS is being expanded to provide temporary, employer is closed by Government regulations then localised support to businesses across the UK whose they can claim under the applicable rules. When that premises are legally required to close as a direct result of changes and they are able to reopen they can claim coronavirus restrictions set by one or more of the four under the wider JSS for firms facing reduced demand Governments of the UK. under the criteria we outlined in September. Employers This expansion of the JSS will help businesses through will be able to claim the job retention bonus for employees the period they are affected by these restrictions, supporting provided they are eligible. JSS grants can be used by the wage costs of employees in eligible premises who employers to pay an employee’s wages and help meet have been instructed to cease work and comply with the JRB minimum income threshold. this instruction. This scheme will enable those premises The employer must use the scheme to cover their to reopen as quickly as possible when they can. It will employees’ wages and pay relevant payroll taxes. The help protect employee incomes, limit unemployment whole of the grant must be used to meet employee costs. and maintain employer-employee matches. The grant will not cover class 1 employer NICs or This is part of the job support scheme, available to pension contributions, although these contributions will employers from 1 November 2020 for six months, with remain payable by the employer. Payments will be made the scheme reviewed in January. Further guidance will in arrears, reimbursing the employer for the Government’s be published in the coming weeks. Employers will be contribution. able to make a claim in arrears on a monthly basis On 9 September, the Government announced the online through www.gov.uk from early December 2020. local restrictions support grant scheme. This scheme The coronavirus job retention scheme (CJRS) remains provided businesses which are forced to close for three in place until 31 October, and flexibility in the system weeks or more due to a nationally imposed local lockdown means if an employer is required to close in October, in England with grants of up to £1,500 per three-week eligible employees can be furloughed until 31 October. closure period. The new job support scheme is available from 1 November, The Government are now making this scheme more with payments from early December. Eligible employees generous so that businesses receive up to £3,000 per whose employers use the expanded JSS will continue to month, and are eligible for payment sooner, after only be paid by their employer throughout this period. Neither two weeks of closure rather than three. The Government the employer nor the employee needs to have previously are also extending the scheme to include businesses used the CJRS to be eligible for the expanded JSS. which have been required to close on a national rather In line with the rules for the JSS already announced: than a local basis, or which have not been legally able to all employers with a UK bank account and a UK PAYE reopen since the first lockdown in March. scheme registered on or before 23 September can claim Businesses will receive the following: the scheme. Only employees that are on their employer’s payroll by 23 September are eligible. This means a real For properties with a rateable value of £15,000 or time information (RTI) submission notifying payment under, grants to be £1,334 per month, or £667 per two of that employee to HMRC must have been made on or weeks; before this date. This scheme will cover businesses that, For properties with a rateable value of between £15,000 as a result of restrictions set by one or more of the four and £51,000 grants to be £2,000 per month, or £1,000 Governments in the UK, are legally required to close per two weeks; their premises. This includes businesses told to provide only delivery and/or collection services from their premises. For properties with a rateable value of £51,000 or over This scheme is open to employers across the UK, and grants to be £3,000 per month, or £1,500 per two weeks; we look forward to working constructively with the Local Authorities will continue to receive 5% of the devolved administrations to ensure it operates effectively funding which they received for the local restrictions in all four nations. support grant scheme as a discretionary fund, which the 3WS Written Statements 12 OCTOBER 2020 Written Statements 4WS

Government will encourage them to use to support remain operable and reflect recent technological innovation. business that have been legally mandated to close by the Some measures are being given effect through alternative Government but are outside of the business rates system. legislation, such as the requirements for the security of networks and services. Grants will be administered by local authorities, and eligible businesses will probably need to provide their The changes we are making as part of this SI are a details to their local authority to access this support. crucial milestone towards our delivery of our digital [HCWS503] ambitions. These changes will facilitate a pro-investment regulatory environment, supporting gigabit-capable rollout across the UK. DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT I therefore lay this instrument in the House today. [HCWS500] Electronic Communications and Wireless Telegraphy (Amendment) (European Electronic Communications C EDUCATION The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Matt Warman): I am today Schools: Summer 2021 Exam Series laying legislation in Parliament which implements the European electronic communications code directive. The importance of electronic communications has The Secretary of State for Education (Gavin Williamson): been underlined during the covid-19 pandemic. The This Government have always made the education of UK’s networks are ensuring the connectivity which has young people a priority. We are determined to make underpinned the way society is responding to covid-19. sure that when the time comes, young people are able to take the next step in their lives with the knowledge and Weare confident that the positive changes implemented qualifications they need. Wewant to build on the remarkable during the pandemic will outlast the pandemic itself. efforts of teachers, students and parents across the For example, it has clearly demonstrated that technology country as children return to school—and education— enables many businesses to be agile, allowing many through these challenging times. We must continue to people to work from home. Technology has also played do all we can to minimise the impact of the coronavirus a critical role in continued learning, and has played a pandemic on all those who are studying at school or more important role than ever in keeping people in college. touch with friends, family and others in their communities. I know that students due to sit exams next summer The increased reliance on and use of digital infrastructure have experienced considerable disruption to their education, brings new expectations around these services, and the our £1 billion covid-19 catch-up package will help to infrastructure must keep up with growing levels of tackle the impact of lost teaching time. It is right that demand. Combined with future expectations around our approach to exams and assessments in 2021 also new technologies and services including 5G, building reflects these students’ experience. future-proofed networks will be essential to our future economy. This is why we are committed to delivering Today I can confirm that GCSE, AS and A level nationwide gigabit-capable connectivity, and the Budget exams in 2021 will go ahead, with most exams moved 2020 committed £5 billion investment in gigabit-capable back three weeks next year to give students more time broadband rollout in the hardest-to-reach areas of England, to prepare and a chance to catch up on education lost Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. The transposition due to covid-19. We know that exams are the fairest way of the European electronic communications code into of measuring a student’s abilities and accomplishments, UK law will help ensure that both the Government and including the most disadvantaged. We want to give our Ofcom have the tools required to deliver these ambitions. young people the opportunity next summer to demonstrate what they know and can do. The directive revises the EU telecoms regulatory framework which has underpinned UK telecoms law The main exam series will start on 7 June and end since 2003. The UK played a leading role in the negotiations on 2 July. One maths and one English GCSE exam will for the European electronic communications code prior take place before the May half-term, giving any Year 11 to its exit from the EU, and in the development of the pupils who need to self-isolate during the exam period directives which preceded it, which largely reflect UK the best possible chance of still sitting a paper in each of best practice. And our commitments in the European these core subjects. Some A and AS levels with typically Union withdrawal agreement require transposition of very small numbers of students entering will also be European Union law until the end of the transition scheduled in the days just before half term. It is expected period. that for the majority of vocational and technical qualifications that are taken alongside or instead of The core objectives of the directive are to drive GCSEs, AS or A levels, awarding organisations will investment in future-proofed networks and communications look to align timetables with 2021 exams. services through sustainable competition; support efficient and effective use of radio spectrum; and provide a high Results days for AS, A levels and GCSEs will fall on level of consumer protection. Therefore, the changes Tuesday 24 August and Friday 27 August respectively, introduced in the directive include new measures that are with students taking vocational and technical qualifications important to delivery of our digital ambitions.Transposing needed for progression to further or higher education these changes into UK law will ensure Ofcom’s powers receiving their results no later than their peers. 5WS Written Statements 12 OCTOBER 2020 Written Statements 6WS

I am also confirming today the subject-level changes It is now for the councils in each of the three areas to to exams and assessments outlined in the public consultation make, if they wish, their unitary proposals, either carried out earlier this year by the exams’ regulator, individually or jointly with other councils in the area. Ofqual. These changes to exams and assessments next The invitations provide that if a council is responding it year will support teachers and students by freeing up must submit by 9 November 2020 at least an outline valuable teaching time. Ofqual has also consulted on proposal, and if a full proposal has not been submitted how assessments of vocational and technical qualifications by then, the full proposal must be submitted as soon as will be adapted to free up teaching time and respond to practical thereafter and by no later than 9 December any future public health measures. 2020. Schools and colleges have shown exams can be held, I will carefully consider any proposals I receive, assessing even in areas of local restriction, in the autumn exam them on the basis of the long-standing criteria for series which is currently taking place. Exams next year establishing unitary councils, namely that if a unitary will be supported by contingencies for all scenarios. proposal is to be implemented it must be likely to Today I have written to Ofqual to ask the regulator to improve local government in the area, command a good support Government in developing these arrangements, deal of local support overall across the area, and lead to engaging closely with the school and further education unitary councils covering a credible geography. leaders, teachers, exam boards, unions and the higher education sector. The results of this planning and ongoing While traditionally various population ranges for discussions with the sector will be published later in the unitary councils, such as 300,000 to 600,000 populations, autumn. have been referred to, regard must be had to the particular circumstances of a proposed unitary council; including I am grateful for the commitment and willingness issues of local identity, local geography, delivery of that has been shown by groups across the sector in public services and economies of scale when assessing enabling and delivering this additional teaching time population size. next year, helping to ensure that young people have the best opportunity to succeed. Our approach will I recognise that when making proposals councils may support students to prepare for exams with confidence request that the May 2021 local elections in the area are and ensure they have the best chance of receiving the postponed. Such postponement of local elections where qualifications they deserve. unitarisation is under consideration is precedented, and [HCWS501] I will carefully consider any such request. With these invitations councils in the three areas now have an opportunity to move forward with reforms HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL which can open the way to significant benefits for local GOVERNMENT people and businesses, delivering service improvements, facilitating economic growth, and contributing to the levelling up of opportunity and prosperity across the Local Government Reorganisation country. Broader policy on local government reorganisation The Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and The Government are also reaffirming their policy Local Government (Robert Jenrick): position on the issue of local government reorganisation; Cumbria, North Yorkshire and Somerset this broadly reflects that outlined in the written ministerial On Friday, I issued invitations under the Local statement made by my predecessor, my right hon. Friend Government and Public Involvement in Health Act the Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire) 2007 to principal councils in Cumbria, North Yorkshire, in July 2019. and Somerset, including associated existing unitary councils, Locally-led changes to the structure of local government, to submit proposals for moving to unitary local government whether in the form of unitarisation or district mergers, in those areas. This is the first step in the statutory can be an appropriate means of improving local service process under the 2007 Act for establishing unitary delivery, saving taxpayers’ money and improving local councils in response to locally led proposals from one accountability. However, restructuring is only one of or more existing councils in the area concerned. the different ways that councils can streamline and Councils in these areas have requested such invitations make savings. Joint working with other councils and and have been developing ideas about restructuring partners can take a variety of forms ranging from local government in their areas for some time. It is right adopting joint plans, setting up joint committees, sharing that they should now have the opportunity to take their back-office services or special purpose vehicles to promote local discussions to a conclusion, and if they wish, regeneration. Such joint working may extend across make proposals for unitary reform. Under the statute county boundaries. Indeed, councils’ general power of such locally led proposals, subject to consultation and competence under the Localism Act 2011 makes it parliamentary approval, can be implemented if I consider easier for councils to get on with sharing services. this appropriate. The Government will not impose top-down restructuring There is thus no question of any top-down imposition of local government and will continue to follow a of Government solutions. We are clear that any reform locally-led approach for unitarisation where councils of an area’s local government, where there is strong can develop proposals which have strong local support. local support for the principle of a unitary structure, is This has been the Government’s consistent approach most effectively achieved through locally-led proposals since 2010, when top-down restructuring was stopped put forward by those who best know the area. through the Local Government Act 2010. 7WS Written Statements 12 OCTOBER 2020 Written Statements 8WS

When considering reform, those in an area will know and animal welfare aspects of the deal. This impact what is best—the very essence of localism to which the assessment has been independently scrutinised by the Government remain committed. However, the pandemic Regulatory Policy Committee. has rightly necessitated resources across Whitehall and At the end of negotiations, this Government are in local government being reallocated to tackling covid-19 committed to ensuring the final agreement text, alongside and on economic recovery, and this must be Whitehall’s an explanatory memorandum, is laid in Parliament and town halls’ No. 1 priority at present. under the CRaG scrutiny procedure for 21 sitting days. [HCWS502] This will ensure the House has sufficient time to scrutinise the detail of any deal. This overall approach goes well beyond manycomparable INTERNATIONAL TRADE parliamentary democracies. Parliament has been provided with the information it needs to provide effective scrutiny at all stages of the negotiations. We are also working UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership constructively with the Select Committees referred to Agreement: Transparency and Scrutiny above, who may choose to produce independent reports on the agreement. Widespread prior consultation and the publication of The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth detailed impact assessments and objectives up front, Truss): I am setting out transparency and scrutiny allows informed debate at the start of the negotiations. arrangements for international trade deals starting with Extensive stakeholder engagement on the detail of the the UK-Japan comprehensive economic partnership negotiations as they proceed, and confidential briefing agreement (UK-Japan CEPA) which will be signed shortly. of relevant committees, means we have taken best practice At the outset of negotiations, the Government published at every stage from comparable democratic systems. their objectives for this agreement, along with a scoping Combined with the confidential sharing of text at the assessment. During the consultation period, we have end of negotiations, this is a best in class approach to discussed progress with trusted advisers across industry, transparency and openness to scrutiny by Parliament including with stakeholders in farming. This sector has and other stakeholders, compared with such countries. been involved throughout, to ensure that nothing we For example, before any of our negotiations with the agree undermines our farmers’ ability to compete US, Japan, Australia and New Zealand commenced, internationally while producing food at a high standard. this Government led a comprehensive public consultation The Government have also established a Trade and or call for input. Like Canadian, Australian and New Agriculture Commission to advise on future trade policy. Zealand systems, we have kept Parliament updated on This will look at policy for our trade agreements and negotiations as they progress, including close engagement our work to improve the world’s trade rules, making with relevant Select Committees. sure they work for British business and consumers. These arrangements are appropriate to the We will share future trade agreements with the UK’s constitutional make-up and separation of powers. International Trade Committee in the House of Commons Ultimately, if Parliament is not content with a trade and the International Agreements Sub-Committee in deal, it can raise concerns by resolving against ratification the House of Lords, in advance of being laid in Parliament and delay any implementing legislation indefinitely. through the process set out under the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 (CRaG). Today we This Government are committed to ensuring that no are doing this for the UK-Japan CEPA. trade deal undermines key industries or lowers standards for consumers. We are concluding free trade agreements Wewill always endeavour to make sure the Committees that benefit all parts of the UK, by creating opportunities have at least ten sitting days to read through these on a for our world-leading industries and maintaining high confidential basis, as we are doing for this deal. We are standards, while increasing choice for consumers. also sharing a full impact assessment which covers the [HCWS499] economic impacts along with the social, environmental, ORAL ANSWERS

Monday 12 October 2020

Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION...... 1 EDUCATION—continued Access to Education: Local Lockdowns...... 8 Online Learning: Universities and Covid-19 ...... 6 A-Levels: Covid-19 ...... 8 Religious Education: Maintained Schools...... 13 Apprenticeships ...... 12 Schools: Covid-19 Costs ...... 10 Childcare: Parental Access...... 3 SEND Education Funding...... 11 Children with SEND: Covid-19 ...... 7 Special Schools: Covid-19 ...... 10 Disadvantaged Children: Educational Attainment. 14 Summer 2021 Year 11 Exams...... 14 Educational Attainment...... 1 Topical Questions ...... 16 Further Education: Public Transport and University Education: Covid-19...... 16 Covid-19 ...... 4 University STEM Subjects...... 13 Home Learning: Covid-19 ...... 4 University Teaching and Student Services: Online Education: Children and Covid-19 ...... 5 Covid-19 ...... 9 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Monday 12 October 2020

Col. No. Col. No. DIGITAL, CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT...... 3WS INTERNATIONAL TRADE ...... 7WS Electronic Communications and Wireless UK-Japan Comprehensive Economic Partnership Telegraphy (Amendment) (European Electronic Agreement: Transparency and Scrutiny ...... 7WS Communications C ...... 3WS EDUCATION...... 4WS Schools: Summer 2021 Exam Series...... 4WS TREASURY ...... 1WS HOUSING, COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL Job Support Scheme and Local Restrictions GOVERNMENT...... 5WS Support Grant ...... 1WS Local Government Reorganisation ...... 5WS No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Monday 19 October 2020

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 682 Monday No. 117 12 October 2020

CONTENTS

Monday 12 October 2020

List of Government and Principal Officers of the House

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 1] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Education

Covid-19 Update [Col. 23] Statement—(Prime Minister)

Business of the House [Col. 60] Statement—(Mr Rees-Mogg)

Agriculture Bill [Col. 64] Lords amendments considered

Queen Mary’s Hospital: Urgent Care Services [Col. 130] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Exams: Covid-19 [Col. 1WH] China’s Policy on its Uyghur Population [Col. 27WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 1WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]