KARIN KAWILIAU HALEAMAU Hu’e Hu’e Ranch, Puuwa’awa’a Ranch, Ke’ea Ranch, Hawai’i

Born on September 10, 1940 into a family with three generations of paniolo on both his father and mother’s side, Karin Haleamau was destined to follow in their footsteps. Karin exemplifies the true Hawaiian cowboy with his zest for life and the land. Karin’s cowboy experience includes working at Hu’eHu'e Ranch, Hu’eHu’e Ranch Association, Pu’uwa’awa’a Ranch, and the Natural Energy Laboratory of Hawai’i Authority. He currently maintains Ke’ea Ranch in Holualoa, where he tends cattle and horses and preserves native plants and wildlife.

Karin Haleamau was nominated as Employee of the Year at the National Energy Laboratory of Hawai’i Authority. He participated in the UH-Kona, Mid-Level Road , Cultural Impact Study, and was the land and resource consultant for medicinal plants and trees for the Palamanui project. Karin is included in ‘Na Mele Paniolo’, a National Folk Arts booklet and cassette recording which celebrates ranching and folk art in Hawai’i . Karin’s life as a paniolo is immortalized in the song “My Dad”, written and recorded by son Gary Haleamau.

Along with his riding and roping abilities, and consistent with the Hawaiian cowboys’ love for music, Karin’s exceptional talents as a slack key guitarist and singer are well known. His knowledge of music was acquired at an early age from his father, Herman Kaha’iwai Haleamau. His performing credits include famed venues such as Carnegie Hall, Wolf Trap, and other cultural events in Hawai’i and on the mainland.

Karin’s priorities in his life include family, friends, preserving Hawaiian culture and respecting the aina. His life is enriched by wife Pat, their four children and seven grandchildren. All of his children and grandchildren are involved in the ranching and paniolo lifestyle. Karin perpetuates this special part of the Hawaiian culture with his ability to sing and spin tales of ranch life and traditions. Karin’s vast life experience as a life-long resident of the Big Island , living the paniolo way, make him a living treasure of Hawai’i and the embodiment of the aloha spirit.

Karin Kawiliau Haleamau November 6th, 2010

LW: Today is November 6th, 2010. I am at Mr. Karin Haleamau’s house in Kalaoa.

KH: No. We’re at Pu’ukala.

LW: Pu’ukala, on the Kona side.

KH: It’s in the area of Hu’ehu’e Ranch.

LW: How would you like to begin?

KH: First of all I’d like to let people know who I am. My name is Karin Kawiliau Haleamau. My dad is Herman Kahaiwai Haleamau. And my mom is Kaula Alapa’i Ha’o. So this is where I came from. There was nine of us, five sisters and four brothers. And we hanai four kids. Two boys and two girls, my mom guys hanaied. So there was a big family of us… thirteen of us. And that’s how my life went on. My dad was a rancher. And somebody had to follow his footsteps and that was me, because when I was about six years old, I used to go with my dad. And this is where I learned all the lifestyle of the land. He took me to areas that today we cannot go. It’s gone already. Actually the land is all used already. Highways, houses… so I had the privilege of seeing all the beauty… what my dad guys talked about. The aina. After that I grew up and married my wife. Pat Ann Medeiros. And we got four kids. Three boys and one girl. Gary was the oldest, Kalei was the second… Kevin and Conrad. That was my children. And they all worked on the ranch with me as children, too. Because summer time, you either pick coffee or work on the ranch. And this is where they learned how hard it was. Sometimes, as they grew up, and especially now, they tell people, you know, it wasn’t easy for my dad to take us out there. It was kind of dangerous because everything we worked on was things they didn’t know how to do. Like cattle… horses… ran all the fences and stuff. They had to work for it. But that was good for the ranch because they gave us privileges because I thought about it. Everything is liability. You got to sign papers before you do this and that. Before days, the managers were so helpful with us. They would trust us. They said hey, if you’re responsible for your kids, they can work any time they like. So during the summer they had a job. Saddle for them. Extra money they could use for school. And now as they grow up they have their kids and they’re telling their stories about how they grew up on the ranch. And like I keep reminding them, I tell them yeah, that was a good life. They tell me oh dad, that was a bust ass life. I tell them yeah, but you guys learned a lot. Now you guys go school, you guys get paper, you guys do everything. Well it’s good to be taught the right way, and you guys already went through the hard way. They say yeah. I tell them good now… you guys can teach the next kids. But I don’t know about the generation now. It’s not going to be the same. Because everything that was here is gone. It’s not any more… for instance, all the land that we used to work on. You cannot go through it. It’s all closed up. Kapu. So it’s sad. Sometimes I sit with my grandkids, I tell them I wish I had the chance to take you folks. But nowadays you don’t know who the owners are. So… you have to get permission or find their names. Before we’d know… oh, this belongs to Hu’ehu’e Ranch. It belongs to Palani. We know the place to go. Today… now… so different. So that is very hard, you know. And I was telling them well… as the day go by and the lifestyle for you folks, think of the past. It wasn’t easy, but you folks learned a lot. So maybe you folks one day come and you guys got your own place, you can share the mana’o. And their kids can share something, too. But it’s not going to be easy. So my kids have their own place, they’re not with me… so they come home.

LW: So your kids said it was a bust up life? Did they have to lots of chores or what?

KH: No. no. Just it was a rough life. In other words, if they wanted to do this or make this or that, everything got to come through here, you know. If this is good for us, let’s do it. And like I was telling them… before this, you couldn’t afford to buy a toy. We used to make ginger as a gun. We used to take out the ginger and make guns and stuff for the kids. ‘Cause no money to afford that. And it was very hard. But I look life today, it’s so different… I don’t know how we’re going to make it.

LW: Did the ranch give you a meat portion and you lived on the ranch?

KH: Yeah… we had places where they could shelter us until we could afford to get a home. And that was good because we was lucky. Because of the service we worked for the ranch and they had consideration… they said wow, you folks are working twenty-five years, we should do something for you folks. We think yeah, it’s only talk. But they came through. It really went through. Ten years later we’re still there. They called us. We had a meeting. They said hey, this is what we’re going to do for you folks.

LW: What was that?

KH: For this aina and stuff… just like a gift to us, in return for their love for what we did. So I said wow… it happened. It really happened and four of us got this aina, right here. Where in the world somebody every going to do that for us. I don’t think some other ranch did that.

LW: So who were the four?

KH: Well, it was myself… Willy Gomes… Thomas Lindsey and Clifford Medeiros. There was four of us here at the time. Was only four of us working at that time. A lot of guys worked before. They put in more service than us. So maybe they looked into it and said hey… they have family. Until today, you know, I keep telling everybody else, we got to be thankful. We thank the God for… mahalo, Ke Akua. Where in the world, somebody would do this for us.

LW: And that’s when the ranch shut down or…?

KH: Well the ranch didn’t actually shut down. There were different owners that wanted to do this and that… so I guess was…

LW: Changed ownership?

KH: Yeah. That’s why it became this golf course and all that. So actually Hu’ehu’e… you know… actually it’s the name of the area of this aina. Makalei… the story about Makalei is because in the olden days there was a boy that had found water on this land… Hu’ehu’e Ranch. And his name was Makalei. So my mom told my sister folks… that’s the name she remembers from her kupunas. So that name should be used as Makalei. That’s why they use the place as Makalei. And he was the boy that found water on the ranch. So at least the name that they picked was the right name. Still Hu’ehu’e… but they sold it now it’s Makalei. So right before that, at least somebody did the right thing for over here. Like I was telling everybody, around here we get districts… all different names, yuh. Hu’ehu’e is one whole place. In between we get all the small names… like Pu’ukala, O’oma, get Kahunui… all the small names like that. Over here is Awalua… right here. This is where we are. I guess you just came down through Pu’ukala. That’s what the area is now. That’s why people that pass here… yeah… I still staying at Awaloa. Because I still remember the old name. But we should acknowledge all those old people. There’s a lot of them not here, you know. And there’s only a few of those our age… like my cousin folks that I know are living. I think they feel the same way. To their grandfathers, their fathers and uncles, whoever worked the ranch, we had kept the trade. And now you know… it’s gone. Everybody is on their own. And the only reason why I got this small ranch now is just to keep my kids involved with it. Because my grandkids love to see what we went through. Not easy, though. Was hard. That’s why my grandson he ask me… Papa, we’re going up to the ranch today? I said no, because I told him I was going to meet you folks. That’s why we didn’t go today.

LW: So were your wife’s brothers on the ranch?

KH: Yeah… Medeiros… Clifford was my wife’s brother.

LW: And were there other brothers on the ranch?

KH: My brother-in-law was there. And then my brother… Herman. That was my brother. He passed away. He worked on the ranch, too. He was before me… but when I worked for the ranch he quit, because he and I could not work together. He quit… he said I ain’t working with you. I said good. My older brother. He was one year older than me. So he quit… I said good, now I get all the privileges. We used to always play together and joke… but they were the ones that worked at the ranch at that time. Ranching is like a love story. Because you got to love the things you do. Was hard… not only horse. Sure, we’re going to ride horse. Everything else… labor and everything. Was common. You got to make the ranch show, by doing everything. Not only horse, not only cattle. You got to fix fence. You got to do everything. Herbiciding and you got to do everything. I told everybody when we worked for the ranch, it was the Jack of all trades. We was cowboys, we was everything else. But today I look at the cowboys, I wonder if they don’t understand the true value behind ranching. They didn’t go through it. We were the ones that loved what we did. And it’s never going to happen again. Because today it costs money. Everything is money, huh. But in our life, we still got all that aloha and that mana. We still think about the land. Sometimes we cowboys… we sit down, we talk. We can see all the changes. The story… how we started the ranch. I say yeah, we are thankful we are here. I tell you, a lot of our kupunas are not here. And through them we learned a lot. I worked with a lot of old timers. We used to get dirty lickings and everything else. They wanted us to learn the way they did. Either you love it or you don’t. We loved everything we did and now we can share our thoughts. But now you know, it’s very hard to bring back something that’s already passed. A new generation. You folks can understand. You talk to people so that they can know… where was the bright side of our life at the time. And now… now we can sit down and share our own. It’s very good, you know. And I love it. I keep telling people. Sometimes you sit by yourself and there’s a lot of old stuff keep coming back to you. And it’s the kind of stuff we can share. Sometimes I don’t want to say nothing, but people they ask us questions. And I know the people are very interested in our lifestyle. So I sit down and talk to them. And our conversations keep going. I say gee, all these memories came back now. And now we make this kind story, we forget. You know… it’s so different. But if you try talk story with people, it all comes back.

LW: What are your memories of those uncles?

KH: My uncles, they worked very hard. They had families to raise. And to them… their lifestyle… everything was all cowboy. Jack of all trades. And they did everything else, like what we did. So that’s the kind of people I like to acknowledge. Because if we do this book now, it will be very interesting if their grandchildren, their kids read it. They will say… that was grandfather. That’s the kind of stuff they need to know. And I keep telling people, never forget the people where we came from. It started from them, not us. We had no choice because that was the life to live, and we loved it. My dad used to tell us that. He used to tell us,, you know, as we get older we’ll change everything in our whole life. There’s going to be a lot of memories to come. He told us make sure that you guys share with other people. Let them know it wasn’t easy. And that’s true. And this is why I like telling about our lifestyle. But you know… as we’re getting younger… we’re not getting older, you know… we’re getting younger. We’re getting brighter, too. I sit down sometimes and I talk to the kids. They like to listen to this kind of stuff. Depends on who… you know, country boys like that… you got to get the kind of kids that have been on the farm or something like that. So sometimes I sit down, I share with them. No, we didn’t do this, we did that. So stories get bigger, you know. It’s good, though. That’s what I wanted to tell you guys.

LW: Was there one uncle you liked better than the others?

KH: Well there were all my uncles. They were good uncles. None of them were bad.

LW: Did any of them teach you anything specific?

KH: Well a lot of them taught us how to survive. Because they used to kanu everything… plant like vegetables, taro… (inaudible), bananas… and they taught us a lot of good stuff. When to harvest… before days they used to go with moon and everything else. They had certain time to kanu this, kanu that. And what time to do it. They had a lot of superstitions but it worked. It worked. Like bananas… they were so superstitious with bananas. They used to tell me we got to plant them only certain time of the day… in the morning or afternoon or sunset… like that. You know, I tried some of that and it worked. Even the bananas… when we take out the stump to transplant, my grandfather used to tell us, when you take this banana, no matter where you’re going to put it on this aina, you get one stone. You pound it inside. And you kanu that. I asked him why. He said when the banana comes, you tell me. A couple of times did that and now I know why. The banana keeps bearing. I said wow, maybe that’s what they were telling us. And I tried two different ways… one without the rock. This is where I was superstitious. And the one with the rock bore more than the one I planted without the rock. It worked. So I taught my grandkid. I told him what my grandpa told me. This is why I teach him.

LW: I was reading your bio here. Both your grandfather and your father worked at Hu’ehu’e?

KH: Yes. In fact, majority was my whole family, actually. You figure my uncle folks, all of them worked on the ranch.

LW: So let’s name those folks.

KH: Well, I get George Kahananui. They call him Uncle Kino. And then I get my Uncle Jack Kaui. Ha’o… and then I get Henry Ha’o. That’s all ohana to us. And they all passed on. And then we had John Apela Kalua’u, Sr., and Richard Punihaole. All those people. That’s all our family that was on the ranch. It’s been the past on generation. So when my dad passed, my brother was working on the ranch and I was going school. When I got out of high school, then I went to the ranch and was there over thirty years. And made my life here. And I keep telling people… because we should give some credit to the best ones… the paniolos that been here before us, because through their tradition, their life style, this is how we learn. And there’s this thing that we don’t want to lose it. And this is why I still doing little ranch work. And then I get my grandkids working with me, too. Because it’s something we love to do and it’s been our life style. And the most important thing is the land. This aina that we have now, now you look at it, it’s a lot of improvements, development… we’re losing all the beauty of where we started. There’s places we cannot go. Like how we used to go. We had all the privilege of going. There was no signs of trespassing, kapu… it was all open for everybody else. So this is the kind stuff you see now. You’re losing it. And I trying to preserve a lot of things so the next generation can see what we went through. And this is my life style of we living that we should acknowledge those old people. We cannot let them just forget about that. If wasn’t for them we wouldn’t be here.

LW: What’s your dad’s name?

KH: Herman… Herman Kahaiwai Haleamau. He was all around man. In other words, being a cowboy is not just working with cattle. It’s doing everything. Like I said, you can be a water boy, you can be a carpenter, you can be a plumber. And you can be just laborer and everything else. The most important thing here was there was a lot of herb that was on the property of the ranch and this is where my dad guys used to teach us. This is the stuff that can help us as we grow older.

LW: Like plants and things…

KH: I took advantage of that. I still doing it.

LW: How are you doing that?

KH: Just doing the way I do… like go out and pick up the herb and stuff, and we start preserving how we going do it. Making whatever is supposed to be done.

LW: So your dad taught you which plants were which plants?

KH: Yes. In fact my mom, my grandfather, my dad. They keep passing along and I was very interested because I worked on the ranch. And I know where the herb was and this is how I learned. So what I doing now is I trying to teach the next generation is… the right way of taking the herb from the land is don’t forget the man above. And my grandfather, my mom always used to tell us, before we touch anything on this earth, you thank him first.

LW: You mean even before you pick it?

KH: That’s right. So that thing can be blessed and can heal you. Because you just doing it through yourself, it’s not going to work. You got to ask for forgiveness, you got to ask for the blessings. I still doing it and I keep teaching my kids how to do it. But there’s a lot of plants that I went through that I know about. There’s over a hundred something plants I went through. Some of them I kind of forgot because there was so much. We were young, you know. We didn’t think… kids, you know… we didn’t think one day this thing is going to be important. But as I grew older and then I looked at it, I said wow… we better start doing something for ourselves because our parents not going be here forever. And that’s what I did. And until today, I still teaching my kids, my grandkids… how to go in the land, pick something that can help.

LW: Give me an example.

KH: I got to show you the plant. I cannot just tell you. I can tell you one plant over there, but it’s not the plant. It’s a different thing. You got to see the plant. But anyway, there’s a lot of plants that can help us. And even the animals. They knew how to work the plants on the animals. Same like human. And my dad used to teach us all that so I learned a lot… but that’s the life style. But like I said we should acknowledge all the old timers. For instance, the ones that passed on. Without them we wouldn’t have known the trade of what was so valuable… ranching life.

LW: You’d be out somewhere with your dad and he’d tell you this plant is… and give you the Hawaiian name?

KH: Yes. All the names he used to tell us. And you know it was very interesting, the areas that we used to go. Before we could enter some place that was kapu… that means we shouldn’t be there… only certain people. My dad used to tell us hey wait, don’t go there. And they used to do some kind of a blessing and then he’d call us and say come on. It’s okay. And I respect that. I really did because this is something that’s going to live forever with me because I saw what they did. And maybe I can pass it on to the next generation. And this is why I told everybody that I know… especially people now… no matter where you go, always… this land before was so precious to the Hawaiian people that they was buried all over the place that nobody know. Because the land was theirs. We didn’t have boundaries. The old land was for the people. So no matter where we go always say kala mai. You have to excuse yourself. I know you’re here. Not at home. So you excuse yourself. And you know it helps a lot. This is where I keep teaching some people that we live on our life style. That’s all here. Maybe that’s why I’m still here. And sometimes we talk about the land and stuff, there’s a lot of problems. Us Hawaiians, you know, they don’t understand. Not enough understanding. All we do, we fight for the land. We shouldn’t be fighting for the land. The land was given for us to make a better use of it and to love the land. Because the land is going to be here. Not us. We’re here only on borrowed time. That’s why I keep telling people, don’t fight for the land. And my last thing was, they have meetings like this. All the government, the State say what are we going to do with this land? And I look at us people, we don’t have nothing. Especially at the beach site. That was their home. Okay. They made some Hawaiian homes… they put it way up where nobody know about it. I go to some meetings. I tell them you know what? If there is a lot of problem here, maybe our state can help. Put some kind of recreation place. Give it back to the people and let them take care of the aina. See how far they can go. Because that’s the only place we have. You know people will really be on it. They say you know, that’s a good mana’o. It’s a good feeling.

LW: So did Hu’ehu’e have land on the ocean, too?

KH: Hu’ehu’e had the land from Ka’upulehu… all the way to Holualoa. And it’s from Hualālai all the way down to the ocean. There was some land and when I was a kid I used to go with my dad and we used to go ride those lands. Beautiful places. Some places right now I cannot go because all restricted… closing up. And you got to get permission from this and that… and like I was telling those people, when I was young time, we used to go up in the mountain. (Huālalai.) I used to wonder about that mountain. So I told my dad, one day I’m going to walk that mountain. He said but be careful when you go up there, because this place has a lot of wild animals and stuff. We’re young. But we walked that mountain and we climbed it all the way to the top. And he told me, if we get up there, there’s a kī’aha… a ki’aha is a bowl. That’s where all the people that rise on that mountain or pass through there, they sign their name on there. There’s a piece of paper. But when we went up there, we found this bowl. It was on the hill. But the papers already was kind of rotten, but was still there. So we put a little piece of paper so people can sign it. So we put our name on it when we went there. Beautiful. And I was telling him about the sights up there. Before, that mountain… people don’t realize this… there is a running track on that mountain. The Hawaiians used to train up there. You talk about the Olympics and stuff, the old people used to do that. They used to train up there in the mountain. Why? To build up their lungs. Because when we was there, we used to ride horse across, I used to ask my dad, what is all these rocks lining around? Is this some kind of airport strip where planes were landing? He tell me let me tell you this story. He said this is where they used to run. Where they used to train themselves. I said wow… and they took all these beach rocks, all these big, solid rocks is up there.

LW: No kidding. Round?

KH: Yeah… you know how heavy those rocks? Couple of hundred pounds. How did they take them up there?

LW: How did… did your dad know?

KH: I don’t know. Got to be some kind of animals pull them up or maybe big rotations. Pass them down like how the Egyptians did. See, we don’t know. But you know, you stop and think because you read the books and you see how the Egypt people survived… I guess everybody knew how to live the life. And I seen that up there. It was so amazing to see dakine of stuff. But I keep telling people the story but they say oh, you should take us up there. I tell them we cannot go up there no more. We don’t have no permission. Before days, we just go. Because the ranch used to own the land. So this is why I told them, our boundaries is from Hualālai all the way down to Keāhole. Where the Natural Energy is. That is Keāhole. Okay, that is our ahupua’a. That is our boundaries. You see we all have boundaries so that when people ask us about this place we know. But certain places we don’t know. We’ve been there but…

LW: But this is yours.

KH: But like as far as our ahupua’a I know in between here, down there. A hundred miles or so. There’s a lot of things that in my life it happened that I’ve seen. But it’s just that it’s not like before. You know when the ranch sold this place, man…

LW: When did they sell?

KH: Was 1990, I think. Or ’91.

LW: That’s pretty recent.

KH: They used to be the Davises. And then Carl Rodi. So there were three partners. It was a family thing. In fact, they the ones who made this house for us. They made this as a gift. The last previous owners. That was Carl Rodi, Tom Davis and Phil Davis. Had three of them. Being here on the ranch, I had four turnover of managers.

LW: You worked under four different managers?

KH: Yeah. I started with one manager, and then one move and the next…

LW: Who were those managers?

KH: Was Ed Johnson. When I started here it was Ed Johnson. They called him Bull Johnson. I don’t know if he’s still living. He was the… I guess Parker Ranch or Kahuā manager at the time. Then he moved here. He was our manager. Then after that we had Carl Carlson. Carl Carlson was the manager for twenty years. And I had Dennis Haserot. He was… well he was just like part manager… more like… he was more like a director, I think it was. Then he started to be a manager for a little while… till Carl Carlson came in. So that’s all the turnover I had while I worked on the ranch. But was a good life. I loved it. Cowboy was our life. Like I said, from the ocean to the mountain. I told these guys, when we used to go horseback riding, either from dark to sunset. And we ride the same horse. These horses today, you cannot. Everything they truck them. They put them on the trailer and take them to where you want to work. Us… we used to ride from here down to the ocean and bring them back home. That’s how. And they used to rope and do everything else. That’s what you call strong horses. But today I look at the horses, you know… there’s a lot of competition. I tell people wow, our time was so different. And we didn’t have no veterinarians. The Hawaiians used to take care of their own animals. And they knew how. Everything was with the land. They had herb. They knew how to do it. And I tell you, you ask a lot of… like my cousin Sonny Keakealani. Sometime he and I, we talk about the old days. He tell me you still remember those days? I tell him yeah, but there’s only certain people we can talk about it with. When you tell the next generation, the people, it’s hard. They say ah, this guy making up story. So we no say nothing. Unless they ask us. Then we start talking about it. Other than that, we no say nothing. ‘Cause that’s something that we have to treasure for ourselves. It was taught and was meant for us. So this is why I’m trying to teach the next kids… whoever comes along. Sometime when we ride around and I tell people, oh the land… how we used to do here and what. They say wow! We used to rope all those wild cattle down there on that rocks. Guys don’t believe what we used to do.

LW: So they were down by the ocean?

KH: You know where Kaloko Pond is? You know where Costco is?

LW: Yes.

KH: Down there where Costco is used to be all the ranch land. Used to be our grazing land. That used to be all our cattle land, all the way to the pond.

LW: So there was something for them to graze on over there?

KH: They had everything there. They had e’koa, they had guinea grass, they had everything.

LW: And there’s water there, too?

KH: The brackish water. There when the tide comes up, the water that comes from the ocean, that’s what they drink on. They knew how to survive. And our horses, when we used to go down, they used to drink that water, too. The horses, they knew. And that salt is good for your body, too. Because they need that.

LW: The wild cattle were down there and you had some other herds, too?

KH: You see that horn there? That’s one of the bulls I caught down there.

LW: Oh, the wild bulls?

KH: I had a couple but people came, I gave them.

LW: Oh those don’t look so nice. Those are pretty nasty looking.

KH: They’re wild. I tell you… so I kept one. I said I got to keep one to show my grandkids. This is what was behind my horse’s butt. And they burn you all through the bush and everything else. So I kept that.

LW: So you rope them and then you ship them…?

KH: What we used to do, we rope them, and tie them up until the next day and then we let them out. Whatever survived, goes to the market. But there are a lot of cattle that died down there because of the heat. But the next day when you go down there to get them, they’re so wild. It’s worse than catching one marlin. You put your rope on your saddle. You better hang on! We started to rope cattle down there before they was going to cut the highway. We had to get them out. So I remember this guy, Bob Manual, myself… I think there was twelve of us all together. So they had to split guys out because the cattle down there all spread out. But you know, as we get older, then now I look… (sighs)… the fun is over. Now is the story we can tell.

LW: So that was… you were trying to clear out those cattle that had gone wild and were living down there. Did you have to have horses that could handle the rocks, then?

KH: Funny you know… our horse… their hooves were very strong. We had big horses, you know. We had… I think part Belgian, eh. And I think we had Morgan cross, a little thoroughbred. They were big horses. They were about sixteen hands high. Big horses.

LW: And that was for the roping or to handle the terrain down there.

KH: Well it was for everything, yuh. We didn’t have all these good horses like today. All these quarter horses. We didn’t have dakine horses. We had working horses. I mean to say those horses you can depend on. But the thing is you got to be a little gutsy, you know. Because if you don’t have that, I don’t know. You might get bucked off, you might get hurt. Because you know when I started at the ranch… was hard for me. Because my uncles guys they think… was fun. So when I started ranch work, I had ten working horses. Horses that had habits. Everyone I had not one was bloody good, I tell you honestly. But I worked those horses. I got bucked off, kicked and everything. Run away with me, broke my saddle. They had habits, those horses. But they wanted to see if I can handle. They was trying the test horses. I remember the time.

LW: Your uncles?

KH: They was terrible, you know. I used to get mad with them, boy. They said you going learn the hard way. Like us. And I did. And I respect that. Till today I tell people, I didn’t take anything from the table. I had to earn it. And this is how I earned it. By learning the skill… and a little crazy. Got to be a little bit taran taran (slang for a bit lacking in smarts), you know. Those guys little bit crazy boy. Sometime I get crazy.

LW: So they set you to caring for the working horses? And you just had to learn each of those horses and what they liked and didn’t like and…?

KH: Well every horse I had… I had a horse named Look Sun. When you ride him, I don’t care where you go… he’s looking at the sun. Finding for the sun. Honest. So they call him Look Sun. I tell them why you guys give me this horse? Because he know how for go home. He going look for the sun. Can’t move him. Just one speed. Not even running. Oh… I used to hate that horse, boy. Then I had one Haleakala. And that horse was a good roping horse. You don’t worry. He can handle. I had one called Jeep… when he goes on he drives just like he get four wheel drive on his four legs. They call him Jeep. So anyway, I had those horses. All those horses, and I tell you honestly, when we had the Na’alehu Rodeo, we used to go. All the ranches used to enter. I took one of those horses that had the habits. I took them down to the rodeo. And I roped with him. This guy he look at me and tell me you crazy, Brah. You guys like see this horse. You guys gave me the bad horse. The worst and the bad horse. Now we go see what they can do. I went in there, I roped with them, this guy no can believe it. He said holy… you did something good. I tell him, yeah. They all had habits but I think I did a good thing with them. It was our young days, you know. We can do anything. Now you tell me do it, I got to think now. The mind slow, yuh, not like before. Get more guts than anything else. Yeah, but… there was a lot of stories from the ranch.

LW: So Hu’ehu’e, the commercial herd when you were a cowboy… was at this level or up higher or…?

KH: Up high and down…

LW: And down, too?

KH: All on top here. This land here was all open. It wasn’t brush like this. All pasture land, this. We used to feed all over here. We need horses to be here. Our car follows all down. This used to be all paddocks. This is Awalua. That’s why they call this paddock Awalua, Pa John, Pā kuni, Pākelekele. See that’s all the names of this places. And then we get Ka’u one. Ka’u Hulihuliwu, Moanuiahea, Olika… all the names up here. So I tell everybody. You know, nobody know. When they tell me by the name I know people was from here. They tell me where they talking about so I know. But it’s been a long time. I look now, after the Makalei took over… they didn’t care for our pasture land.

LW: When did Makalei take over?

KH: Let’s see… what is this… about eighteen years ago. Then place all came… we had paddocks all over here before. But look at them. It’s all Makalei. My boundary only go to the road. This is my property. But other than that…

LW: So are these paddocks over here on the Kona side… they’re like the ones at Pu’uwa’awa’a… a lot of stone… stone walls…

KH: Yeah. We get a lot of rock walls down here. Too bad… if you could come I take you go horse riding down there… go look the area. Then you can picture for yourself what I’m talking about. Sometime…

LW: Sometime you know what, though, you got to take your grandkids to do that.

KH: I take them.

LW: One time, you got to get them to one of those topographic maps. I don’t know where you can get them over here, but in Hilo you can get them at that Basically Books. And one of your kids… I could teach them but somebody could teach them how to find the paddocks on that map, see. And then you can make sure that either the kids write down the names, or they’re already on the map. Some of those names might be on the map already.

KH: I think so, no.

LW: But… the really big ones that have been there long, long time. So how old is Hu'ehu'e? When did it get started?

KH: Cheez… I think in the ‘17’s (1700’s). Because my grandfather guys was here on the ‘18’s (1800’s) already. To got to be in the late ‘17’s. So you know that’s way back. Because there’s some graveyards up there I was looking at and… us all relatives to my grandfather’s side. And you look the burial time… hoo… I look… 1721. I tell wow, these people been here long time. So this is why I told Hannah… this kind of stuff got to preserve it, boy.

LW: Oh, Hannah Springer?

KH: Yeah. Because I think her family is buried there, too. Her grandfather, I think, is in there. I used to take care the cemetery up there when I was working on the ranch. I used to take care so I know all the people up there… had Makuakane name… all the kind old people that used to work on the ranch. But after this whole ranch pau I didn’t go back up there. My kids worked on the ranch, too, boy. And they was going school. Summer time they used to go… plant grass, do fencing, work cattle with me. And you know what? They had money for their school. They didn’t just take. They wasn’t like today’s kids. I tell you. Today the kids, either playing those… what you call that… that video and all that. Our kids didn’t have time. They get out school, they coming home, waiting for me. We going… doing something. Like my son, Gary, you know. He started to entertain music when he was about eight, nine years old. Then he wanted to be professional and I told him well, I don’t have the money to buy all your stuff. So he and I used to go cut ohia trees, collect. Kona Village was building that time. So used cut posts for thirty dollars a post, like that. So we did a lot of work. And all that money that we made, he bought all his sound system. And was worth it. Because we didn’t buy brand new stuff. All second hand, huh. But was worth it because he made an effort of to. He took school. He was doing it. And today look… he’s an entertainer now. So you know that’s the kind story I tell people, you know. My kids learned the hard way. And you know what? I’m so proud. I told my wife we should be thankful because my kids, after they got married, they got their own property, built their own home. They moved there and never did come home and stay with us. I miss them, you know, because I’m so used to with my kids. So my grandkids come home stay with me. My daughter’s son Kamrin stays with me most weekends. If we are not at home working in the yard we are at the ranch. We are on the horse. He called and say, hoo papa we going to the ranch? I said no, not today because I had this thing. Okay but let me know if you go after. You see what I mean?

LW: That’s your daughter’s boy?

KH: Ae, yeah. He love loves animals. He loves my horse, boy. You know that kid? Honestly, sometime we go up and then I go up check the water for the cattle. He tells me oh, papa. I going try get the horses. I tell him for what? We don’t have time. He says we get time. So I look for him. he’s gone. So I say he probably around here so I didn’t bother. I see him coming down with the horse, bareback he’s riding her. No reins, nothing. I look at him, I say Ae.

LW: Kind of in the blood, huh?

KH: In the blood. I told his mom what happened, and she was mad and said tell don’t let him do that. That makes me nervous. Another time I was shoeing my horse, and he was riding the mom’s horse. So I tell him, you watch your mom’s horse, some time she going buck. He thinks it was funny. So I tell him don’t gallop her, just walk the horse. I look up the horse is running, getting all red, huh. The horse start to buck, throw him down. I don’t say nothing. I look underneath… he stay on the ground, he looking up to me. So after that I tell, oh, what happen? He tell me oh, papa, you saw that. I tell him no. Oh… I got buck off. I tell the grandma. Oh…! I tell her you know what? That’s how they learn.

LW: Kind of how you learned, huh?

KH: That’s right. And I was telling him… you know, I’m not going scold him. Main thing he never got hurt. I tell him You okay? Oh, yeah. And what? I’m going get back on her. Oh, okay. I see him getting back on again. So I told my daughter. My daughter, she all panicked. I tell her, you know girl, that kid love animals. She said as long as he don’t get hurt, that’s fine. Sometimes we all get hurt. I tell her I got hurt plenty time, boy.

LW: Well, that’s how he learns.

KH: Everything. Everything. You got to let them sometimes. When you scold the kid, they panic, they scared. No way. If they no get hurt, I no scold them.

LW: When you were a boy, you had your dad working at Hu'ehu'e… and his brothers? How many brothers of his?

KH: Well, actually it was my mom’s brothers. My mother… that was the only uncles I had. My dad was the only son that we know of.

LW: But he was working at Hu’ehu’e, too?

KH: Yeah.

LW: And then your mom’s two brothers or…?

KH: Yeah, my mom’s two brothers were at the ranch. And my grandfather. They was all at the ranch before us.

LW: And your mom’s dad?

KH: Yeah.

LW: Now what’s their family name?

KH: Used to be Henry Ha’o, Senior. So anyway, that was my grandfather’s. So you know what, this is very hard link because I just found out because we wanted to know where my dad actually came from. So there’s a lot of feedback and my daughter is doing some research, too. Because you remember the fire that burned that… all those a’i kai’s papers. The old papers. Because over there we had that genealogy and everything. So my daughter went out and she found out that my grandfather actually… they came from Ni’ihau. And this is how my dad was born, then went to Honolulu, then moved to Hawai’i. And now we trying to find out where is my dad’s parents and stuff. My daughter just told me that I think they are buried in Moloka’i. I said no… she said yeah. So she doing more research so that I got to go find out while I still living. Even myself, I don’t know where they are. So that my kids can know about it. So I told my son. He’s up the mainland. He said oh, dad, let me know. I’d like to go, too. So she’s working on that.

LW: So that was your dad. So it’s kind of unclear who his relatives were? You don’t know his family?

KH: Yeah. That’s why. So looking at both sides. You know, my dad and my mother’s side… her brothers were all on the ranch. And all my uncle guys, my mom’s cousin guys, they all was on the ranch. That was the only thing they had. Either one farmer or be one cowboy. And you know they love the job and I guess they did and a lot of them just died on the ranch. Getting so old and everything else and they passed by.

LW: Those old ranches, everybody lived on the ranch. Where’s the headquarters to Hu’ehu’e? Up?

KH: When you come in, remember that bend you’re coming down?

LW: Yeah.

KH: You don’t see that road going up on the hill? That’s the headquarters of the ranch. That’s Hu’ehu’e Ranch. You see the rock wall there? I built that wall. I made all that wall there because didn’t have one driveway before. The old road used to be there. But when I was working there the managers wanted to make our own driveway so I made that wall. I built that wall up and it’s still standing now. So everybody said, hoo, that’s a lot of memory, you. I tell them, yeah. But I kind of miss the place. Sometime she and I go up there. Because she used to caretaker the house, too. She used to work for the houses.

LW: Oh, the manager’s house?

KH: She was the one, you know… my wife used to take care the houses. It’s just like all family thing. no.

LW: What’s your wife’s first name again?

KH: Patricia. Medeiros.

LW: Oh, she was a Medeiros?

KH: Yeah. Actually she came from Waimea. Her family all from Parker Ranch. And she was from Honoka’a High School.

LW: And so she worked at Hu’ehu’e?

KH: Yeah. She was taking care the houses. Taking care of all the houses. She was hired to work. Just like a house maid. That was her. And then she worked for the cafeteria at Kealakehe. She’s retired now. She’s good, though. I tell her ah, you getting old already. She wild with me, boy! Yeah, I just made seventy, you know. I just celebrated my seventieth birthday up in the mainland. My son… he made a good… good party for me. I wanted to make something over here but he said no, dad. You coming up, so…

LW: Who played music with you?

KH: The kids.

LW: No, when you were little.

KH: All my cousin, folks. We used to get our jam session. With some ranchers we used to get together, and have a fun day like that. Get four or five of us all sitting down on the ground, we used to jam. Oh, we jam! Good music. And then all my kids used to pick up because all my cousins guys used to come here. Oh, we used to party up here. Sometime they forget when for go home. I said hey you guys, tomorrow work. Go home.

LW: Well did you play after dinner at home or just with the cousins?

KH: We play home, too. Anytime we get together. Family kind. But most time we would go out… all my cousin guys they all play music so we all get together. We get some good entertainment. Some good… bluegrass. Hoo… you guys can jam. That’s good, though. That’s why I get all the instruments over here, when the guys come, they can fool around. Yeah, I get all kinds right here… get some more in there. This is my party room. Everybody come over here, I make them stay here. I don’t want them driving home. They stay with us. There’s a lot of story in this house, though. All the cowboys come here… that’s how we hear. Talking about his horse and yelling, start bragging about his horse… I tell them hey, you guys. ‘Nough.

LW: Cowboy talk huh?

KH: Yeah. We left the work at the ranch. This is home. Now, it’s a good life we have… till today.

LW: When were those jamming sessions? Just any old time or around branding or…?

KH: Any time. No matter where we go… we always have our instrument in the car. First thing they look you… they make like that. I tell them, yeah. They tell where yours? Stay in the car. Okay. Then when we sit down like this everybody bring out their instrument. Yeah, my cousin guys Lyons… Lyons, Alapa’i… Kanai… hoo, that’s the party guys. When we get together, you talk about music, all that kind. Like Pops Gab kind song, you know. You know Gabby? That’s the kind song they play, you know. That’s why we could get all this kind guitars. That’s good… we still doing that. Not like how before, though. So different. Before you know, we didn’t care about going anyplace. Everything from the ranch. Home. Till now we had the ranch… partying up there… jamming. Oh, I kind of miss all that. But sometime, you know like I said, my son and I, we get together, we sit down, we talk about the old days. But to only a certain extent. We don’t just talk about it. Where everybody like listen now… our stories, yuh. All everybody tell wow. I say yeah. I tell them you know, the way it is today, you know… the cowboys today, they’re more… to me I think they’re more selfish. Like they keep for themselves. They want to be themselves. So that’s the feeling we get today. Take us, we no care. Even you good, you know what… we used to praise the guy. Brah, you all right. We always praise them. So you give more encouragement. Say yeah, Brah, it was hard. Yeah, we sing. That’s all. (Sighs.) Different kind of feelings, huh. The feelings today is who you are, not what you are. Like our days not. We took everybody the same. The guy need help, we was there to help. That was our style.

LW: What kind of cattle did Hu’ehu’e run?

KH: We was running dairy cows. And we had black Angus. And then we had Hereford. We had all kind of mix up. But how the cattle started to get overpopulated was before the property was so big, didn’t have fences like how today. Today we can put paddocks. We can move around. Like before days, even the calves keep dropping, you not get them this year, next year. That keep going. That’s why they turn wild. So there you go already. That’s no limit stuff because we didn’t get the whole herd in. Like today we can control the cattle. We got paddocks. Hey, we shut the water off, we open the gate, the cattle know. They come in. They got to move inside to the next place. Like before, we didn’t have that kind. We got to go out there and bring them in. And most of them run away. And we ain’t chasing all those cattle down three because it’s so hot. Said let them go. We get them next week. We go… cannot get them… let them go. So this is how the cattle get more strays up there because of what we did. Keep letting go, letting go… and this is what it turns out. ‘Cause no more control. But today we pretty much control. So I get one small lease land up there, too. I’m running some cattle but when come to the drought time, hoo, scary, huh… because up there I get all catchment, and I don’t have any County water or nothing. I got to really watch myself. Last year… the earlier part of last year, I was kind of hurting because we didn’t have rain. So I had to haul water up there. Well I hauled couple of semi trailers up there. The the reservoir went down so I said oh. Then I started to get rid of some of my cattle. So then I kind of eliminate them. I can get more. And then seeing that not working I said oh shucks. Still cannot, though. Not enough rain. So I just keeping a few head now. Not that much. Just for my kids can fool around. And house use.

LW: Freezer cattle?

KH: Yeah. But ranching you cannot make money. You cannot. Because I no care what you do. Because controlling of the weed and all that, is very expensive.

LW: Controlling what?

KH: Weed. All the kinds of brush. Up there… Christmas berries, guava.

LW: Christmas berries and guava… really bad?

KH: Yeah, because what we did, I hired some Mexicans. And we did grubbing of land, poisoning, herbiciding it. Then all of a sudden now the weather change again. The rain… everything came back. That’s the only problem but cost a lot of money, you know. Especially when I had to put all the boundary fences. I had to do all that and it cost a lot of money. Got all new wires…

LW: How did… the old ranch didn’t have Christmas berry and…

KH: They had. They had but was out of control. But all the old paddocks they had, I wanted to use them because I’m leasing the whole place. So if I’m not going to do nothing about it, kind of waste the time. Even of paying the lease you not using so you try to get whatever I can so I fenced it and all. So that cost me a lot of money.

LW: So the old ranch you just move your cattle to a different place?

KH: Well, I can do that but now I get paddocks so not so bad. I can make some different adjustment or… still yet, I trying to get more land. My daughter’s trying to get Hawaiian Homes, yuh. We can get it. If we can get something Hawaiian Homes, that would be good. Not for me. It’s for them. I like that because them, they love ranching, too, huh. Some nice stock and… every time I see everybody on horse, it makes me… oh, bring a lot of memories back, you know. I say yeah, I used to do all that. But today it’s not too bad. We get trailers, we can just take the horse there. We get a lot of people offered help. They like to help me and stuff. But I don’t have that much area for work. Just enough for me and my kids. But this kind small area, it’s a lease land so the land is only for ten years so I only get four more years. So right now I cannot do too much things. I cannot increase my herd now. I got to stay where I am. Because… going be in a short time those years are gone. So we trying to work something out. The main thing we can get water. That’s the main thing. Water is the main concern, you know. Because cattle, they can live without feed, but they need water.

LW: Where did they keep the milk cattle?

KH: Well they get separate paddocks and stuff for them. So not too bad. My dad used to take the milking cows up here when he was working on the ranch. I used to go over there, help him. And then we was doing part-time, too, when I was working on the ranch. I used to milk the cows in the morning. We had some loose dairy cows. In fact, that’s how I raised my daughter. She used to go with me, so I used to go milk the cows. I used to milk them and then feed her. That’s cowboy style. And she used to drink the milk. I tell her, you know what? I raise you on this cow, we used to call her Lolly Moo. And then I tell her Lolly Moo raised you. She says, yeah, I know. I used to drink all her milk. I tell her yeah. I kind of miss all that, though. But that’s how… you know… it’s been a good time for us. Anything else you need to know?

LW: Yes.

KH: Lucky for the cowboys now, because this thing came out. And all the old cowboys are gone. It’s really sad we couldn’t recognize them… themselves personally. So they can tell you their time. There is another guy down here. I was thinking about when they sent me the form…

LW: Yes, for next year. Nominating him?

KH: I don’t know what I did with the paper but here’s another guy here. He should be recognized, too. Thomas Kamaki Lindsey. He and I worked on the ranch. He started at Parker Ranch. And then he came here from Pu’uwa’awa’a, and then he came Hu’ehu’e. So he worked for Hu’ehu’e I think forty something years. And he’s still living so I was just talking to him.

LW: Yes, you should get him nominated.

KH: I talked to him and told him, you know what, Brah… since I was for last year, the Hall of Fame, I think I should put you in. So I was telling my daughter. Because we get plenty history about his lifetime. We can write something about him, send it in. I like him to be nominated.

LW: That’s a good idea. I think you should do that.

KH: Because that’s my brother-in-law. He was married to my sister. When he was working the ranch I started after him because my brother was there. And we all went out the same year. Like I said when the ranch pau, I went out. And I went Pu’uwa’awa’a. I worked for a couple of years. I worked with Mickey Kato.

LW: Just recently, then? In the ‘90’s?

KH: Yeah. So had only three of us so me and Mickey was the only ones running the herd. So we had this water boy, Thomas Segovia, so he was part-time with us which was good but was hard time, you know. Because only two of us. And we running over two thousand head cattle. So I used to take my son and my son-in-law weekend and my daughter used to go help us brand. I used to take all the guys just for fill in. Brother Sonny Keakealani, his dad was living at the time. Uncle Robert. So he used to come up help us.

LW: What time would that be then? When was that?

KH: That was in the ‘90’s so would be ’93, ’94. I was up at Pu’uwa’awa’a. After that then I guess Bonnett wanted to sell the ranch so, I said you know what? It’s time for me move. Meanwhile that Natural Laboratory was looking for somebody. I said no, I don’t want to go down there. It’s not my type of job. I went anyway. But not knowing this guy, Bob Kihune, he’s a retired admiral from the Navy. He said I know you one cowboy. You been there all your life. This your aina. I tell him that’s ours. So he tell me, you ready for work? You want to work? I tell well, if get job. That’s when he said yeah, you come tomorrow. Bob Kihune came from Honolulu. He said oh, we have a new member here. He’s working with us. I show him all the places. All the burial grounds and stuff. He tell me wow… you know all this? I tell him yeah. My dad used to take care down here, yuh. So I know all that ahupua’a, too. So I used to tell him I used to take care…

LW: You mean old Hawai’i burial grounds?

KH: Yeah. Me. And Hannah know about that burial ground. And she was telling me, you know my mom used to talk about that heiau. I tell her yeah, it’s right down there. She tell me you know where? I tell her yeah. I used to go with my father, we used to go on the horseback and we used to stop. And every time we used to go down, my father used to pick kukui flower. And he used to tie them up all with lau hala. You know the strip. He used to make strip. He tie all the flower. So I tell him oh, dad… what you doing? He tell me you going see. He no tell us. So I followed him. We down with the horse. He go straight to the heiau, get one big rock over there. He put the lei on top. He tell this is all your kupunas over here. All your tutus… your ancestors. When you guys come up, you folks look over here. He open the road for you folks. You get chicken skin. I know I was down there when they started to make Palama Nui they call me. They wanted me for come down because had this… well… before they made the name, these Maui people wanted to give one name for the place. And I heard about it, I said, no, no, that’s not the name. So one of the… I don’t know… one of them… the agents from there heard that my dad used to take care the place. He got more interested in me. They called me. He say can you help us? I say… well it depends. He says well these Maui people have a name for this aina down here but I know your father used to be the one. I tell him yeah. And what was the name, I tell. I give you guys the name. So they came… all them came see me. The name over there supposed to be Palama Nui.

LW: Oh, Palama.

KH: Yeah. So I told them this whole area here is all sacred this. This is why my father guys used to take care because had a lot of herb and the heiau stay here. So that’s why we named it Palama Nui. So the name stay up there. I put the name. Today everybody come see me… wow… I tell them yeah. so when they did… I don’t know if you know the name… Danny Akaka… Danny… he did the blessings. We went to all the corners. And so far, nahu’uli so good. Sometime you know, you got to have respect for the place. People some they take advantage.

LW: So what makes a really good cowboy?

KH: Well, I think it’s got to come from the heart. Because something that you don’t see very often. To be a cowboy you work with animals and you see what the land get and what the land provides for you. And for yourself. I tell you it’s unreal. Because to me to be one cowboy… survive is the main thing. Everything we grow here. We can hunt, we can fish. All for us kaukau. That’s what I think about it. That’s what made us cowboys because we know how to live. We know how to respect what we have. And to us, like my father used to tell us, take what you need. There’s always tomorrow. And I believe that. Today I watch everybody. They go fishing, take, take, everything. And they don’t know what to do with it. Put it in the freezer. My father used to go before… I used to go with him… he throw net. He get enough fish, we used to come to the village. Get all the family. Come home, you know. And those people no can go fish, yuh. Old people. You know what? They get one bag taro, potato, pumpkin… they get them all waiting for him. All come outside for take over. See the exchange was? That’s what’s good about cowboy life. Because you learn from the land and you know how to respect the land. That’s what it’s all about. And you work with animals. It’s not to beat one another. It’s just to work together. And then me… I treasure all that. I told… you know, everybody. My friend wen teach me this. This guy can be down there for long… put your hand over there. Put it up. Some guys they look you they just walk over you. They forget who was here. That’s why I told everybody, if I get, you get. If I no more, we no more. And this is my life style. I always get, I give people. And I don’t expect people to give me back. That’s the first thing I tell. Because what goes around, comes around. And until today, I still get plenty aloha from people. They always tell oh, uncle, you took care of us. I tell… you folks lucky. I hope you folks can do that for the next people. I tell them, no keep it for yourself. The next one come, pass it on. And you know they respect that. That’s why everybody down there, no matter where I stay, they come… I stay in the morning, give them all help. I tell them oh, you stay over here? Yeah. How you? What’s happening? Every time we come down we no see you we worry about you. I tell them no worry, I stay around. Watching all you guys. That’s how, you know. That’s what I like about my cowboy life. Because you know you come home with your horse… we work hard. We used to work like ten hours. Hoo, and you know the kind of money we make. It wasn’t the money. Just was the life style we had. Everybody used to grumble like today, even one dollar they work, they no like. I tell them I used to work for twenty-five cents for one whole day. How you like that? We used to bust our ass. We used to work hard. Carry stone, make this, make garden. So old lady tutu come… hoo boy, you work hard today. That’s all I get. Give us twenty-five cents. You know what? That was a lot of money. Twenty-five cents we can buy any kind stuff. Today you try give them one dollar. They no like. They expect more. That’s true, you know. They only say money is good to have. But can be the root of all evil. You know everything got to come from… if you love the stuff… yeah. Come from over here (points to heart.) This nothing (points to mouth.) Everything from the heart. Here can do the work but inside here, that’s where it stays. That’s what it is about. That’s why my father always used to tell us… if you love your people, love your family, whatever you do, whatever you issue all from inside here. In here. So remember that. It’s a good thing to remember. If you can love yourself, love the land the same way. So every morning me, I go down… I always thank the man for this land… for this life. Take care us. Take care us. No matter what we do, forgive us. We not perfect. But he come. Always come. What goes around, comes around. Remember that.

LW: What do you think about the future of ranching?

KH: Well, it’s not going to be the same. They going be, but going be lot of changes. To me it’s more like a challenge. That’s what I think about it. They want to beat somebody else. It’s not like our time. Because you look before, the ranches all used to work together. No more hand… the next cowboy come. You know my father guys used to drive horses before and they used to ship cattle in the Humu’ula days. I remember. I was kid now. They used bring the horses down. All on the old road before. And they used to meet Hu’ehu’e. And all their horses know each other. And only one cowboy take them all the way down. Take them all the way down to the beach. And you go there, you see about thirty horses. They all know where they going. My dad used to go there open the gate. All the ranch horse used to be only in the pen. For the shipment. Same thing. When they come home, they open the gate, the horses all go home. They know no reach home tonight, tomorrow they stay home. They stay all over the ranch waiting. My dad used to go, and I used to go with him. Honest.

LW: But those were working horses to put the cattle on the steamship.

KH: On the ship. Yeah.

LW: One guy would bring the whole herd of horses down?

KH: That’s all you need.

LW: But you’d have to switch horses? You would use more than one horse?

KH: Well, they had plenty cowboys, that’s why. When they go down there, that’s when they have to separate all their cattle, you know. That’s when they used all their horses. When they ship cattle each one get their own to take out. But they take a lot of horses. Because some part-time guys go down no more horse. So they use their horse. I still can picture where the corral was. And how they made… I used to sit on the wall, watch my dad folks work cattle. I was about six years old. My dad used to tell me stay here.

LW: Because they just used a tree to do that? When they went in the water?

KH: They had one special saddle. Only with the wood saddle covered with some old leather… for water it’s used.

LW: I’ve seen those.

KH: I have one up here.

LW: But they worked together. You were saying they worked together. Yeah, that doesn’t happen much anymore.

KH: The part about it I liked it because after they ship the cattle, my mom used to cook. We used to stay down here. Some time me and Sonny we talk about that. He tell me yeah… our father guys used to work hard before.

LW: And work with each other. So maybe not… can you see that in the future? People… you know I saw that when I did that ranch project when branding time comes, a lot of people get together, help each other.

KH: We used to do that. Hoo, we used to… I used to love that. I used to love that because I used to do all the castrating and stuff, too. My daughter used to inoculate. And my other sons used to rope. And we used to knock… oh, we used to have fun. After that, then we have barbeque, we get live music. Hoo… I tell you. I pictures about all the old days. All… everybody just enjoying. I miss all that, boy. I miss it. Nowadays not like how it was.

LW: That’s the good things about it. You got multiple family… lot of family.

KH: Yeah… most like from here to Pu’uanahulu all the way Parker Ranch, you know. That was all ohana, too. That’s our family, yuh. That’s why like… the closest one that I know, we still on the ranch is me and Sonny. We’ve been on the horse all our life. And we still are. So everybody ask me, you still working on horse yet? I say yeah. I think Sonny is… I think he just made… I think he’s three or four years younger than me. So we talk about our time. I tell yeah… I just made seven years old. He laugh! He tell yeah, yeah. I know that. Seven years old. No… that’s how. But cowboy, you can’t beat him. It’s been our life style. And all of it. And I hope the next generation get… look into that. Always look back… how we started. Start from the roots. That’s what we tell people. They the one that started this, that’s why we are here. That’s why I always say we got to hang on to all that kind people. And I know plenty… I know plenty cowboys who used to work before. They all from different places, too. All gone already. Like Johnny Pieper. He’s a hard one, too. And he’s from Ka’alu’alu Ranch. We used to all rope together, boy. And he was the boss for the place, too. That’s a while back. Leighton Beck. That’s another one. Buster Enos and Peke Bob Manual work for Hue’hue Ranch, too. All those guys from Kahuku Ranch. We used to all work together. Now nobody know that kind.

LW: They were older than you, yuh?

KH: Yeah… that how we…

LW: But Pieper was in this last group, I think.

KH: Yeah, I think so. But it’s good to remember that kind people because of them, that’s what we are. We just follow the footsteps. And we didn’t learn anything else that we shouldn’t learn. We learned something that going benefit us and it did. And now you know, it’s us. We remember that and we can teach the next one, yuh. I tell you, it’s very important to know what we went through. I told everybody we didn’t take anything else from the table. We had to earn it. And there was love, respect, too. Because to what they taught us is still in our hearts and we always got to remember that. It’s from the roots. And that’s how I share with you now. He get horse, I get horse. I get different mind, you know. Sometimes I’m thinking before he thinking. I not going sit down and say hey, that cow over waiting for me. What you going do? Sit down over there and wait for the cow going think for you? I got to think first. Either go rope him or what. That’s how. I was telling you, about I like get Thomas Lindsey. Be in the Hall of Fame with us all.

LW: Yeah, I think that’s important. I do. I do. I think you should do that.

KH: So anything else?

LW: We could talk for hours but if you feel we’re done…

KH: I remember when we talk story. We sharing our mana’o and aloha. Was good we talk about our life style. And I’d like to thank some wonderful people like Cousin Brah Sonny Keakealani and ohana for all their kokua they did for me, Jon Znamierowski, Germaine Jarvis and Emily Znamierowski. Also the Hall of Fame members that help put this things for us paniola ia Hawai’i. In closing I also want to thank my wife, Patricia Ann Haleamau, my son Gary Kawiliau Haleamau and his wife Shelden K. Haleamau and their children (my grandchildren), my daughter Raynette Kaleileihua Haleamau Kam, and her husband, Kenny Kam and their children (small boy Kam cowboy), my son Kevin Kahaiwai Haleamau and his wife , Star S. Haleamau, and their children, and my son Conrad Kaaumoana Haleamau and Naylene B. Pacatang. Mahalo to all my friends and family for helping in my love for the Paniolo life from Kona, Hawaii … Aloha, Ke akua Brah Karin Kawiliau Haleamau.