Thursday, 23rd August, 1951
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
(Part I—Questions and Answers)
OFFICIAL REPORT
VOLUME IK, 1961
<7th Aogiui io 21st September, IflSl)
Fourth Session
of the
PARLIAMENT OF INDIA
1961 00NOTJKT8
FofemM I X — From 7th August to 2Ut S^ptombor, 1951m
Tuesday, 7fch August. 1961.— Ootumna Member Sworn . . • ...... • I Oral Answers to Questions...... 1—27 Written^ Answers to Q u e s tio n s ...... 27—40 Wednesday, dth August, 1051— Oral Answers to Questions • • . • • • Written Answers to Q u e s t io n s ...... Thursday, 9th August, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions* ...... 93—125 Written Answers to Questions ...... 125—154 Friday, 10th August, 1951— Oral Answers to Q u e s t io n s ...... 155—183 Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... 183—206 Monday, 13th August, 1951— Oral Answers to Q u e s t io n s ...... 207—^235 Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... —^5® Tuesday, 14th August, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions ...... Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... 293—308 Thursday, 16th August, 1951— Oral Answers to Q u e s t io n s ...... 309—338 Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... 338—343 Friday, 17th August, 1951— - Oral Answers to Q u e s tio n s ...... Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... 372—388 Saturday, 18th August, 1951- Oral Answers to Questions ...... • • Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... 4»l—4*if Monday, 20th August, 1951- Oral Answers to Questions ...... • • Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... • 457—472 Tuesday, 21st August, 1951- Oral Answers to Q u e s tio n s ...... j£aZ5?ft ^ Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... ^ Wednesday, 22nd August, 1951— Oral Answers to Q u e s tio n s ...... • Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... Thursday, 23rd August, 1951— - Bfl7—— Oral Answers to Q u e s tio n s ...... bm mg Written Answers to Q u e s t i o n s ...... • Saturdlky, 25tli August, 1951— Oral AntwcrB to ...... Written Answers to ...... • 237 P.S.D. (H) Monday* 27th Auguft, 1951— O o h m n »
Oral Answore to Questions , 658--684 Written Answers to Questions 684—702
Tuesday, 28th August, 1951—
Oral Ajiswers to Questions . 708—734 Written Answers to Questions 734—742
Wednesday, 29th August, 1951—
Oral Answers to Questions . U 9 r-lU Written Answers to Questions 775—786
Thursday, 80th August, 1961—
Oral Answers to Questions . 787—818 Written Answers to Questions 818-^30
Friday, 81st August, 1951—
Oral Answers to Questions . 831—870 Written Answers to Questions a70—876
Monday, 3rd September, 1951—
Oral Answers to Questions . 877—909 Written Answers to. Quest ions 90^932 Tuesday, 4th September, 1951— Oral Answers to QuMtions . 933—967 Written Answers to Questions 967—986 Wednesday, 5th September, 1951- Oral Answers to Questions . 987—1014 Written Answers to Questions 1014—1Q36 Thursday, 6th September, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1037—1065 Written Answers to Questions 1065—1074 Friday, 7th September, 1951- Oral Answers to Questions . 1075—1104 Written Answers to Questions 1164—1120 Monday, 10th September, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1121—1154 WHtten Answers to Questions 1154—H64 Tuesday, 11th September, 1951— Oral Answers to Questions . 1165—1201 Written Answers to Questions 1201-1808 Wednesday, 12th September, 1951— Oral Answers to Quest ionp . 1209—1256 Written Answers to Questions 125e—1274 Friday, 14th September, 1951-
Oral Answers to Questions . 1275—1809 Written Answers to Questions 1309—1824 Saturday, 15th September, 1951—
Oral Answers to Questions 1325—1355 Written Answers to Questions 1856—1364 (iii)
Monday, Itth September, 1961— Oolumfia Oral Answers to Quest i o n s ...... 1366—1400 Statement by Deputy Minister of Defence in Connection with Starred Question Wo. 747 of 4th September, 1961 re Control Committee on Cantonments...... ' ...... 1400—1401 Written Answers to Questions 1401—1414 Tuesday, 18th September, 1961— Oral Answers to Questions ...... 1416—1446 Written Answers to Questions . . . . . 1446—1470 Wednesday, 19th September, 1961-— Oral Answers to Questions ...... 1471—1600 Written Answers to Questions ...... 1600—1612 * Thursday, 20th September, 1961- Oral Answers to Questions ...... 1613—1643 Written Answers to Questions ...... 1643—1648 Friday, 21st September, 1961— Oral Answers to Questions ...... 1649—1680 Written Answers to Questions ...... 1680—1694 THE PARIJAMENTARY DEBATES (Part I—Questions and Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT
667 56$ PARLIAMENT OF INDIA Shri Kamath: Has Government any information as to whether any members Thvjsday, 23rd August, 1951 of the Pakistan Government are mem bers of this party? The House met at Half Past Eight Shri Jawaharlal Nehrii: No. Sir. of the Clock. Shri Chattopadhyay: What are the [M r . D e p u t y -Spe a k e r in the Chair] principal activities of the party to which objection has been taken by ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS India? “H in d u s t a n H a m a r a ’* P a r t y Sh;*! Jawaharlal Nehru: When there ^460. Sbri Sidhva: Will the Frlme are two countries hi friendly relations Minister be pleased to state: with each other, one country does not (a) whether the Government of encourage any agitation which might India have written a letter to the disrupt the other country. Apart from Pakistan Government objecting to th# this fact, in the agreement of the 8th activities of the party known as April 1950» it was speciflraily laid ^‘Hindustan Hamara” Party; and down that any such agitation should not be tolerated by either C(»vernment. (b) if so, whether any reply hen In so far as that clause of the agree been received from the Pakistan Grov- ment is concerned, .tnere has been ernment? repeated breach of it on the Indian The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- side by the Hindu Mahasabha and on lal Nehru); (a) The attention of the the Pakistan side by this group and Pakistan Government was drawn to other groups. In fuct, even the this in a telegram sent in May last. objective laid down by one or two of (b) No. the communal organisations in India is a breach of that agreement. Shri Sidhva: Is it a fa<*t, Sir, that this move is supported by newspapers V is it of U. N. OrnciALS which aie considered to be the mouth piece of the Pakistan Government, and •461. Shri Sidhva: Will the Frtm* also that they are doing propaganda? Minister be' pleased to state: Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: It has been (a) whether Mr. A. W. Cordier, Exe given a good deal of publicity by those cutive Assistant to the Secreta^- newspapers. It is for hon. Members General of the United Nations, and th# to draw any inference from that fact. Principal Director of the Department of Security Council Affairs arrived In Shri Rathnaswamy: Is the formation New Delhi in the second week of June of 'Hindustan Hamara’ party in Pakis 1951; and tan only a reaction to some of Ihe statements and speeches made by the (b) if so, what was the purpose of Hindu Mahasabha leaders that India their mission? and Pakistan should be united again? The Deputy Minister of External Shri Jawaharlal Nehrn: That is a Affairs (Dr. Kcskar): (a) Yes. matter of opinion, but many people in (b) This was merely a courtesy visit Pakistan have said that this is a reply as they were on a routine tour* of to that kind of statement from India. United Nations’ Mission-?. Pandit Krishna Chandra Sharma: Has any reply been receivea from the Shri Sidhva: May I know, Sir, Pakistan Government to the protest whether Mr. Cordier had interviews also with the officials of the External made by our Governmet? Affairs Ministry, and if so. whether Shri Jawaharlal Nehru; I said NoV they were courtesy visits, or was anjr 222 P.S.D. 569 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 670
official business discussed in regard to laid on the Table of the House. [5 ce U.N.O. and other matters? Appendix III, annexure No. 5.] Dr. Keskar: Mr. Cordier certainly Dr. Ram Subkag Singh: May I know visited the officials of the Externa) whether any estimate has been made Affairs Ministry and also visited the of the total amount of security Prime Minister. But as I said, he was deposits? on a routine visit on behalf of the Shri A. P. Jain; No. United Nations, in the course of which he visited many other countries after Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: It is said in wards, ' the statement that the Deputy Shri Sidhva: Did he discuss during Rehabilitation Commissioners in Punjab this visit any matter relating to (Pakistan) circulated all banks to Kashmir? send to them lists of security deposits lying with them and also Dr. Keskar: I am not at liberty to to hand over the nmounts. May I say what was discussed or what was know what steps the Government of not discussed. It was a routine visit. India propose to take m that behalf? The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- Shri A. P. Jain: We have lodged a lal Nehru): It is obviously— if I may protest. say so—rather unusual to ask questions about what happened in, Shri Hussain Imam: May I ask if private conversations. But in order the payments will be made on the basis to satisfy the hon. Member I might say of the present exchange or of the old that he did not discuss that question. exchange rate? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Apart from Shri A. P. Jain: That question would that, how is it useful to know what arise only when payments are made. took place in the course of conversa They are not making any payments. tions with officials of the External Affairs Ministry? Hon. Members be fore they put questions ought to find out whether it is in »' ublic interest to ^ fT'TT ^ f H W q¥r' ask those questions: No. 2 what follows. f e R t Shri Sidhva: If it was not in publio interest then you should not have allowed my question. I sought an t ? information and the answer is in the negative. So the matter ends. [Lala Achlnt Ram: Will the hon. Minister please state how many of the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is not that— deposits are such about which veri there are certain limits to it. fication is being made by the Govern ment of India?] Shri Sidhva: If you allow it, it becomes a public question. 9ft TJo ifto ^ ?ft THRT^ Shri Kamath: Was Mr. Cordier de puted here in pursuance of a reso «IT Pp % 5fr p K T lution of the United Nations Assembly or Executive, or did he come on his J9n *TT ^ ^ ^ I ^ eft ^ own? ^ ^ TfT t I WfW Dr. Keskar: As I s?id, he was on a routine visit to member nations of the % ^ ^ 5ft 51^ m m ^ United Nations in Asia. He visited many other countries m the Middle- ^ ^ I East afterwards. [Shri A. P. Jain: The question in the D e p o s it s o f n o n -M u s l i m C o n t r a c t o r s first instance was regarding the fulfil IN P u n ja b ment of our agreement with Pakistan. They are not doing it. Hence the *462. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: Will question of verification of claims does the Minister of Rehabilllation be pleas not arise at all.] ed to state whether it is a fact that the security deposits made by noD- RETURwf o r I n d ia n s fro»i M a l a y a Muslim contractors in the Punjab be fore partition would be refunded to *463. Shri Kamath: Will the Prim« the original depositors? Minister be pleased to state: The Minister of State for Rehabilita (a) whether repoi'ts have been re tion (Shri A. P. Jain): A statement is ceived that Indians in Malaya and j •71 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 672
Singapore are selling or otherwise dis ^ fipspT it jp n f ^ ^ posing of their properties, and are re turning to India; (b) if so« how many such cases havn ^ ert a n ^ spt t ’T Sr occurred during the last six montba: and f janOT w«^<. ^ ^ (c) the reasons therelcy? ^ ^ fe n ^ The ParUamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister (Shri Satish Chandra): # ®TT,
(d) how the cost of maintenance Has Government taken any definite compares with the present book value steps to have this building inspected at and rent received? definite intervals and, if so, at what intervals? The Deputy Minister of Works, Pro duction and Supply (Shri Burairohaia): Shri , Buragohain: In regard to (a) All buildings constructed during inspection I might inform the House the war are inspected by the Divisional that regular routine inspections are officers of the Central Public Works made by the Sectional Officers every Department every year in order to test month, not only of . war-time con their durability. structions but even of permanent (b) No. In view of the acute short buildings. The Sub-Divisional Officers age of accommodation, it is not pro inspect the government buildings posed to pull down any building unless every four months, and the Executive it is considered to be unsafe. Engineer inspects them once every year, and they have to record remarks (c) No mishap of any serious nature which are forwarded to the has occurred. Cases of falling plaster Superintending Engineer and or stone slabs in a few buildings have, eventually to the Chief Engineep in however, occurred but no one has been important cases. injured and in such cases remedial measures were taken. With regard to the Constitution (d) Information is being collected House, some arches and walls cracked and will be laid on the Table of the during the last monsoon and one arch House in due course. actually collapsed. Cracks have also appeared in the walls and arches of Dr. Deshmukh; Has the Government other temporary structures, but so far been required to pull down any remedial measures have been taken. building because of its being uncafe? Shri Kamath: Is the Inspec^tor Shri Buragohain: So far none have instructed to go inside the rooms and been pulled down, Sir. see whether any beams have already Shri Sivan Pillay: May I know started sagging? whether at the time of constructing Shri Buragohain: I think the the building of the Constitution House Inspectors. are expected to do that. its life was limited to a certain number of years and whether that period is Lala Achint Ram: Is it a fabt that over now? certain buildings in Deolali camp be longing to the Defence Department Shri Buragohstin: It is a fact, because were demolished this year? the programmed life for these war , time constructions is usually three Shri Buragohain: I think this hardly years. But since then annual repairs arises out of this question. Sir* I do have been made in order to strengthen not know what particular building he these buildings. has in mind. I would like to have notice. Shri Lakshmanan: Is it a fact that the maintenance cost of the Consti Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Mem tution House is increasing year after ber may table a separate question. year? Dr. Deshmukh: With regard to The Minister of Works, Production part (b) of the question the hon. and Supply (Shri Gadgil): That is so. Minister replied that he was going to collect the information and then Shri Lakshmanan: May I know supply it. Does he not know the cost whether the recent decision of the of maintenance in any particuUr Government to raise the rent of the instance, for instance in the Consti rooms in the Constitution House has tution House? What is the percentage any basis on this increase of main of the maintenance cost as compared tenance charges? to the book value? Sliri Buragohain: The rent has not Shri Buragohain: I have got the yet been raised. The matter is now figures of the cost of construction and being examined by the House Com also the cost of maintenance. But I mittee. have not got the figures of ri^nt which are being worked out. If he wants I Shri Kamath: Has Government can ^ ve those figures. The capital received any reports that so far as cost of war-time constructions comes the Constitution House is concerned, to Rs. 7.00,88.824, and the annual ex certain parts of the Constitution House ^ penditure on maintenance comes building* in certain comers especially, to Rs. 18,82.520, which works out to collapsed during the last monsoon? about 2*7 per cent, of the capital cost. 677 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 579i
As regards the Constitution House— Shri Gadgil: The answer to the first I have not got separate figures but I part of the question has been given have got the figures for 2,980 officers* very often that as a result of the quarters which inchide the Consti abolition of salt tax, the I'reasury has tution House, the Nursing College and lost round about Rs. 11 crores. As servants* quarters. The Agui^s are regards the expected benefit to the Rs. 20,71,336 capital cost, and the consumers, it has not been realized. expenditure on maintenance is Rs. Therefore this idea of requesting the 65,169 for all these 2,980 quarteifs. varjif)us States to take over the distri bution and to make good some loss Seth Govind Das: How much do the was suggested. But as I have stated Government get as rent from these in the reply, most of the State Govern structures? ments are not willing to do anything at present. Therefore the question has Shri Buragohain: That information been postponed for the present is being collected. TO fTH : /fjTf iTpffhr Shri Kamath: What, Sir, is the num ber of cracks that must appear in a ^ ^ I anff 5T(nr building before it can be condemned?
Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Next question. >TT anfsp ^ t ^ flT Shri Gadgil: As soon as the safety margin is crossed, the building is pull ed down. ^ ^ ^ t . ^ Shri Kamath: The margin has not been crossed? ^ t ? [Seth Govind Das: Is the bon. Shri Gadgil: There are many cracks.., Minister aware that the distribution of salt is still so defective that many Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Many cracks times salt is not available at a number are not noticed. of places, the difficulty becoming acute in the rainy season particularly when Shri Kamath: That is the difficulty, Sir. • the prices go very high? What steps are the Government taking in this direction? ] D istribution of Salt fit im fw : r« *466. Shri Kshudiram Mahata: Will ^ t a m # the Minister of Works, Production and Supply be pleased to state: (a) whether it is a fact that Gov t PP ^ T p rTRR ^ ernment suggested to all State Gov ^ m IT? ernments in May or June 1951 to take over the distribution of salt; f ^ ^ 3TT ^ ^ am? qr?rf ts ffro n rm (b) if so, what are the replies re ceived from various States; and (c) what is the system to be adop [Shri Gadgil: The distribution of ted for this purpose? salt is not so defective as has been stated by the hon. Member. There are The Minister of Works, Production faults at certain places the reason . and Supply (Shri Gadgil): (a) Yes; in being that sufficient number of wagons April 1951. « are. not available for salt because food- (b) and (c). Practically all the grains being imported at Bombay have State Governments are of the view got to be sent to various olaces and the that State trading in salt would in people are anxious to receive it as volve considerable difficulties and soon as possible.} would not be practicable at present. Government have therefore decided to ^ : sfirr JT? a r m ^ accept their advice and to drop the ^ ^ ^ % «TR proposal for the present. Shri Kshudiram Mahata: Sir, by the ^ JPFTT % ^ ? removal of the tax on salt, the price of salt has not decreased appreciably. [Seth Govind Das: Can one itope for May I know whether Government have ^ better distribution of salt after some decided to take any steps to reduce time when the difficulty about wagons the price of salt? is no longer there?] 579 Oral Answers 23 AUGUOT 1951 Oral Answers 590 Shrl R. Velayudhan: In view of the ift arRTT difficulties expressed by the State Gov ernments regarding State trading and ^ ^ ^ t • the statements of the Ministers that there is an excess quantity of salt in [Shrl GadffU: It is best always to the country, is there any proposal for hope.] decontrolling of salt, in which the Minister is a firm believer? Shrl Ghule: In view of the reply given to part (a) should we take it that Shri Gadgil: There is no question of the present nominee system is to be decontrol. There is no shortage of continued? quantity. Control is absolutely necessary where the production is less Shri Gadfill: The present nominee than demand but here the production system is available in certain States is adequate but owing to some diffi and not in all .States. These Staces do culties in short term, namely of ade nqt want to make any change for the quate wagon supply such things happea present. The result is that it continues. and in order to prevent that as far as possible, some adjustments in the zones Shrl Ghtile: How is it distributed in is under consideration and also some the States where there is no nominee suggestions are being made to the State system? Governments that even in working the Shri Gadffil: The system is that any nominee system, they should see that body can place an indent with Govern the nominees do not under-indent with ment factories or with private pro a view to create artificial scarcities. ducers and the only limitation is the Shri A. C. Guha: Have the Govern price control. ment any idea of removing these wagon difficulties? Sardar Sochet Singrh: What is the system for the procurement and distri Shri Gadgil: The idea can be better bution of salt from Pakistan, which is expressed by my hon. colleague on my selling at Rs. 2 a seer at present? left. Shri Gadgil: No Pakistan salt is The Minister of State for Transport allowed to be imported. Thei-efore the and Railways (Shri Santhanam): Sir. latter part of the question does not one of the difficulties of transport ot arise. ^ salt is that when the wagons are avail able, they do not want to move salt; Shri A. C. Guha: Have the Govern- they want to move only at their own ncient any idea of doing away at least convenience and they do not want to with this nominee system which has create stocks or dumps. been condemned by the Salt Advisory Shri A. C. Guha: Is not the shortage Committee as well as by the Estimates due to the nominee system? Committee? Shri Sidhva: May I know if the Shri Gadgil: It is precisely because shortage is due to the district nc'minee that it was not approved by the Salt system which induces the merchants Advisory Committee, that the matter to place orders at their pleasure for the was taken up with the State Govern purpose of creating scarcity and in ments. After all, any scheme that the crease in price and whether the Salt Central Government may evolve has Advisory Committee have unanimously got to be implemented and worked out more than jonce decided to abolish this by the Provinces or the States. district monopoly? May I know what Shri Shiv Charan Lai: Is it a fact that other alternative the Government the production of salt is more^than intend to take to allow the free move sufficient for the country’s require ment of salt and not allow the district ments but due to the shortage Of nominees to create a chaos, and who wagons and the difficulties in the trans are taking advantage of this mono port system the prires vary very much poly? . and in some places the supply faUs so Shri Gadgil: I have already stated short that the peoole fin d it vevy d iffi that we took the matter up with the cult to let salt? State Governments and tried to do our best. But thex do not like this idea Shri Gadgil: The position is that we of doing away with the nominee system; have more than sufficient salt and if I will have to persuade them further, during some short period the shortage is experienced, it is precisely due to the but for the present, they do not say cau^e which has been referred to by that they are against it but they only the hon. Member. In such con want .to say that this particular time tingencies, it is not unUkely that prices is not the best. so up but as soon as the supply is made Shrl Hussain Imam: May I ask the available, prices come down. hon. Minister of the reason which has 181 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 5»2 led to the prohibition of import of salt reasons for not being rehabilitated in from Pakistan? Is it a fact that the those provinces as put forward by the States have expressed a desire to displaced persons and the State Gov import it at Rs. 2-8-0 or Rs. 3 a maund ernments differ and if so, what are and it is being sold at Rs. 70 cr 80 a they? maund? Shri A. P. Jain: The bulk of the Shri Gadffil: The simple reason is desertions has taken place ?rom camps. that we have enough salt and there is The question of rehabilitation in re no necessity to import. gard to persons who have deserted the camps does not arise. Some, com Shri Shiv Charan Lai: In view of the paratively fewer, have deserted from reply given by the hon. Minister that the rehabilitation centres. Of course,, there is sufficient supply of salt and we have investigated into the cases. that there is sufficient supply of wagons Causes which we consider account for also for the purpose of transporting desertions are not the same as the salt, are we to take it that all these causes given by the displaced persons. difficulties are because of the nominee system and that if free trade is allow Shri S. C. Samanta: How many of ed, it will adjust by itself and the those displaced persons who have position will be eased? returned back are still residing at the Howrah and Sealdah stations? Shri Gadgil: I have again to repeat that all aspects of this question were Shri A. P. Jain: I cannot vouchsafe considered and the advice tendered by for the information.. So far as I have the Salt Advisory Committee was also information, none of these persons who taken into consideration and' the result have returned from either Bihar or was that we approached the various Orissa are on any of the Railway State Governments. After all the stations. House will realize that any policy that we may lay down will have to be given Shri A. C. Guha: Is it true that most effect through the State Governments of these refugees who have returned and when some of them definitely say from the Bihar camps were in the that this is not the proper time, I agree camps for over a year or almost about with them to some extent. This a year without any attempt at question is not closed and as I have rehabilitation being made? stated, it will be taken up a few months hence. Shri A. P. Jain: Attempts at re habilitation were made; but it is also D ispla c e d P e r s o n s w h o R e t u r n e d a fact that those who were in the FROM B ih a r and O r is s a camps had been there for a year or •467. ShH S. C. Samanta; Will the over a year. Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased Shri A. C. Guha: Is there any scheme to state how many of the displaced before the Government to revise the persons who have come back from rehabilitation schemes of all these Orissa and Bihar refugees in Bihar? (i) have been rehabilitated in Shri A. P. Jain: Rehabilitation West Bengal; and schemes are being re-adjusted from (ii) have gone back to East Pakis time to time according to the difficulties tan and have finally settled that come to our notice. there up to the 30th June, 1951? Shri A. C. Guha: Is it true that the hon. Minister went to Bihar some time The Minister of State for Rehabilita ago and asked the Bihar Goverrmient tion ^(Shri A. P. Jain): It is presumed to revise the schemes of rehabilitation that the hon. Member is referring to there? . displaced persons who left camps and rehabilitation centres in Orissa and Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That is one of Bihar. On this presumption, the In the steps that are being taken. formation desired is as fellows: Shri A. C. Guha: I think he himself (i) 4,846 up to the 10th July, 1951; went there and had discussions with (ii) 63 displaced persons returned the Bihar Government. I want to to East Bengal with Govern know what was the result of those dis ment assistance. It is not cussions? known whether they have Shri A. P. Jain: I have not gope to finally settled in East I’ akis- Bihar for almost a year. The Re tan. Government h.'ive no habilitation Minister of Bihar came to information in respect of the Calcutta to see me and I discussed the others. schemes with him. As a result o f Shri S. C. SamanU: May I know those discussions, tome schemes w er^ Irom the hon. Minister whether the modified. iS 3 Oral Answers 23 AUOUST 1951 Oral Answers wmr m : •ptt Bcsolution on Kashmir ^Ute'J the 30th March. ISfil. which says “that the con 3T»ft ^ vening of a Constituent Assembly as ^ «nnw 3TT t| |, recommended by the General Council • of the All Jammu and Kashmir «pt artr w % National Conference and any aetion «RT 5ra«r ^ t • that Assembly might attempt to take to determine the future shape and [Lala Achint Ram: Will the hon. affiliation of the entire State or any Minister please state whether the part thereof would not constitute a Government are taking any steps to disposition « f the State in accordance rehabilitate refugees coming of late with the above principle**. It means from East Bengal, in Bihar and there is freedom for disposition accord Orissa?] ing to plebiscite later on. In the course of the discussion of the Resolu ^ qo «fto a f;i: 15PW 3IT tion, as also a subsequent discussion in the Security Council on a complaint ^ 51^ % VrrrfW addressed to the Council by the I Government of Pakistan the position of the Government of India was fully [Shrl A. p. Jain: I am going to explained. For convenient reference, Calcutta tomorrow and steps would be I place, on the Table of the House, taken according to the conditions relevant extracts from the speeches found there.] made by our representative. [See Appendix III, annexure No. 6.] Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is only Bihar and Orissa. Does this arise? Briefly, the Government of India’s position is that the Constituent Shri J. N. Ilazarika: How many of Assembly for Kashmir is not intended the displaced persons who came back to prejudice the issue before the from Bihar and Orissa are in Howrah Security Council or to come in its way. Station awaiting rehabilitation? When Shrl Kesava Rao: May I know will they be rehabilitated and how whether during the discussions with long will they have to stay in the the UNO representative Dr. Graham, Railway station? the question of the cancellations of the elections to the Kashmir Constituent Shri A. P, Jain: None according to Assembly has come up? my information at present. Dr. Keskar: Is it relevant? This has Shri Chattopadhyay: What is the no^iing to do. total number of displaced people that Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It does not arise were sent to Bihar? How many have out of this question. come away and how many are still Shrl Rathnaswamy: May I know if living in camps? the Government of India hr.ve made Shri A. P. Jain: 26,170 displaced their position clear to the UNO that persons were sent to Bihar from West the setting up of the Constituent Bengal. Of these 3682 deserted up to Assembly in Kashmir does not in any 26th June 1951. I am giving the way conflict with or prejudice the figures from memory: at present, there plebiscite that has been agreed upon would be a*bout 7,000 persons in the both by India and Pakistan in camps. Kashmir? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Next question. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That is exactly what has been answered. K a s h m ir C o n s t it u e n t A s s e m b l y Dr. Keskar: The hon. Member has *468. Shri Kesava Rao: Will the not listened to what I was saying. That Prime Minister be pleased to state: was exactly what I said. (a) whether it is a fact that the Sardar Socket Singh: Is there any Security Council has asked the Gov article in the Charter- of the UNO ernment of India not to set up a Cons which could prevent a sovereign Gov tituent Assembly in Kashmir; and ernment from framing its own Constitution? (b) if so, what is India's reply to the Security Council? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minis The Deputy Minister of External ter is not aware of any such thing. Affairs (Dr. Keskar): (a) and ^b). No Shri T. N. Singh: Is it a fact that such request has been received from certain agencies both here and outside, the Security Council by the G o^ m - specially in Pakistan, have been pro ment of India. The hon. Mefiber pagating that the Security Council is presumably has in mind the statement trying to bring its influence to bear In the preamble to the Security Council upon the Government of India to see 685 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 5SG that the Constituent Assembly in 5TTir, w w Kashmir does not actually function? In view of the Resolution which the ^ f t t ^ hon. Minister just now quoted, is it not desirable that a categorical state- [Late Achiat Ram: W ill the hon. mer^ is made on this subject in this Minister please state whether House? Government had any correspondence with the Kashmir Government on the Dr. Keskar: I do not see any subject of an early resettlement of necessity. refugees who are to be re-settled in Ja nmu and Kashmir so that they may Mr. Deputy-Speaker: m is not a question; it is a speech and a suggestion. take part in the elections to the Consti tuent Assembly and may not be depriv Shri Hussain Imam: May I ask the ed of their right to vote or on the hon. Minister to tell us whether it is question of transferring and rehabilitat a fact that the Government of India ing those refugees in Kashmir who are has given an assurance that the de at present in the Yole Camp?] cision of the Constituent Assembly will npt be binding on the Government ¥To ^ of India and will not prejudice the ftKTHRT w ^ ’Tff f f t I holding of a plebiscite? The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- [Dr. Keskar: There has been no la] Nehru): My hon. colleague read correspondence with them on this out a part of the reply that the Govern matter.] ment of India gave on that occasion and has placed on the Table of the WWT srfww ^ House certain speeches, etc. We are PpdNvi JiTTifhr clear. The question that the hon. Mem ber has asked, I am not' quite sure ? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That the de [Lala Achint Ram: Does the hon. cision of the Constituent Assembly of Minister propose to have any such Kashmir is not binding on the Govern correspondence now?] ' ment of India. ¥To : t WFRTT f ftr Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The Govern ment of India, legally speaking, is in ^ ^ nf sfrr ^ n certain relationship with the Govern ^ ^ aim 51^ t ' ment of Kashmir, that is, in regard to Defence. Foreign Affairs and Com [Dr. Keskar: I think it is rather late munications. Any decision in regard to and that nothing would come out of these matters, naturally, is the concern i t ] of the Government of India. In re gard to any other matter, the Govern M a c h in e T o o ls ment of Kashmir is autonomous. *469. Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva: Shri Kamath: Is it not a fact that Will the Minister of Works, Produc the Constituent Assembly of Kashmir tion and Supply be pleased to state* has been convened or is going to be (a) how many machine tools were convened in accordance with the pro purchased by Government for (i) the visions of our Constitution? Railways; (ii) the Military; (iii) Indus Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: • That is so, tries and (iv) the Agriculture Depart and if I may say so, in complete accord ment: and ance witri the Government of India’s (b) how many of them are of Indian views on the subject. manufacture and how many of for eign manufacture? TT*r : The Minister of Works, Production ify ^ e fT T and Supply (Shri G a ^ il): (a) and (b). I place on the Table of the House a statement in three parts, showing; t ^ ^ ( 1 ) the value of contracts for ^ t, ^ Tr machine tools purchased by Govern ^ mNr ^ 3?%*^ % ment for (i) Railways, (ii) Defence (iii) Industries and Ov) Agriculture ^ sftr a m ^ Departments; iw % ST JIT ^ (2) break up of the total value of 3ft f ^ ^ # contacts for machine tools of indi- geilus manufacture and of foreign 5mT*Fnc fvirr arm aftr ^ manufacture for all departments: and ;587 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 688 (3), the value of contracts for Shri T. N. Singh: Is it a fact that the machine tools placed by the India Store Defence Department ac*cording to X>epartment, London, and the India practice, can place orders direct, with Supply Mission, Washington, during out recourse to the India Supply the financial years 1949-50 and 1950-51. Mission? ^ {See Appendix III, annexure No. 7.] Shri Gaigil: The normal procedure Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva: What is ^ is for orders to be placed through the the value of these tools separately India Supply Mission or the India under the categories ( 1 ), ( 2 ) and (3 )? Stores Department. Bui in certain exceptional cases they have departed Shii Gadgll: It is given in the state from the normal procedure. ment. The total for the year 1949-1950 which includes both the indigenous Shri T. N. Singh: Has there been any manufacture and the quantity import case of any special commission being ed comes to Rs. 1,06,53,677, and for the paid in such cases where e departure year 1950-1951 it is Rs. 1,20,74,110. has been made from the normal practice? Shri R. Velayudhan: Is the hon. Minister aware that the Railways have Shri Gadgil: Where special oxders purchased machine tools worth crores have been placed and a departure o f rupees when there were stores worth made from the normal procedure, J40 crores lying here, according to the naturally I cannot be aware of it. Shroff Committee’s report? Shri R. Velayudhan: When an order Shri Gadgil: I could not follow the is placed by a Ministry for the pur question. chase of certain machine tools or materials, does that Ministry look into Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minis and examine the list of articles that ter has answered that for 1949-50. are already available in stock? The quantity purchased cost only about Rs. 106 crores and that includes pur Shri Gadgil: Orders urG placed by chases by the Railways, the Defence the indenting Ministry after taking In and other departments. And how can to consideration the stock of any parti the Railways alone purchase machine cular commodity that the Ministry has tools worth crores of rupees? in store and after coming to a decision, they come to this Ministry and place Shri R. Velayudhan: I mean the pur orders. chase of machine tools, Sir. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes, the figures Y arn (E xport )' given were those of machine tools. *470. Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva: Will the Minister of Commerce and Shri Shiva ]Rao: With reference to Industry be pleased to state what part (b) of the question, it was stated quantity of yam has been earmarked that machine tools of foreign manu for export to foreigii countries in 19i51? facture are ordered either through the India Store Department, London, or The Minister of Commerce and the India Supply Mission, Washington. Industry (Shri Mahtab): The following Is any over-riding commission paid by quantity of cotton yarn will be allowed either of these bodies to agencies for for export during 1951 under the Trade the purchase of these tools of foreign Agreements: manufacture? Pakistan—7,500 bales. Shri Gadgil: As far is I know, all these orders are placed by the two Indonesia—320 bales. bodies, namely, the India Store Depart Ceylon—3,250 bales. ment, London and the India Supply Mission, Washington by calling for China— 5,000 bales. lenders and allotting it to the lowest Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva: What tenderer. I do not think there is any was the quantity of yarn exported in agent intervening between these two the year 1950? .bodies and the suppliers. But I shall make enquiries. Shri Mahtab: The total quantity of yam exported was 2,11,740 bales. Shri Shiva Rao: May I know whether the result of the enquiry will be made Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Slvi: What is available to the Members of the House? the total production o f yarn in 1950? Shri Gadgil: If the enquiry results Shri Mahtab: The figure L voi avail in anything, it shall be given to the able with me here now, but some time House. back I gave it in a note to the House. iM . Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers •90 Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva: Is the *T?T ^ ^ nn, hon. Minister BLV/stre of the slogan in the country— “Yarn, yam everywhere, W ^ ^ ? * Not a yard of cloth to wear” . [Seth Gkiyind Daa: Since yarn is Mr. De]>uty-Speaker: Order, order. being exported in such a small But what is the question? quantity, may we hope that the hand Dr. M. V. Gangadhara Siva; In view loom industry would get much more of this slogan, I want to know from the this year than what it got last year?] hon. Minister why such enormous Shri Mahtab: There is no doubt quantities of yarn are being exported about it. The handloom industry will to foreign countries, when there is dire get more than double what tfiey got shortage of cloth in the country? last year. Shrl Mahtab: The export was made Shri Ghule: What is the quantity of last year, and as the hon. Member is yarn that has already been exported aware, it has been banned this year. and what remains to be exported? And The export of only 16,000 bales has is there any time-table for the export been allowed throughout the year of this yarn? • under the trade agreement. Shri Mahtab: Nothing has been ex Shri Lakshmanan: May I know what ported yet. We are waiting for the are the varieties of yarn that are in production here. We will first see that cluded in this export? the needs of the industry are met and Shri Mahtab: All varieties—coarse, then the export will be made. medium, ftne etc. Mr. Depaty-Speaker: We shall go to the next question now. W ^ ^ ^ ^TFT ^ ^ ^ ^ Shri Hussain Imam: But Sir... Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No, I am srrry. ^ IT? ^ I ymrvT We go to the next question. After all the export is only 16,000 bales for the ^ ^ 5T|f f*T5?gT t I ^ whole year. tjiwci ^ ^ ^ Shri Mahtab: Sir, if you have no ^ fW ^ T^T t objection, questions Nos. 471 and 478 may be taken up together as they re 'SJHT 5F? P w r 3TTW ? late to the same subject. [Seth Govind Das: By how much is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Very well. the quantity of yarn to be exported this year less than that which was E x t r a D epreciation A l l o w a n c e t o exported last year? Does the hon. T a tas an d the Scob Minister know that the handloom industry in particular is not getting •471. Shri A. C. Guha: W ill the enough yarn and may I know whether Minister of Commerce and Industry export of yarn which is being used in be pissed to state; the handloom industry would be stopped under the circumstances?] (a) whether Government have sanc tioned extra depreciation allowances to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He has answer the Tatas and the Scob; and ed it already, when he said that last year it was 2 lakhs and odd bales and (b) if so, the amount and the pur this year it is 16,000 bales. pose? Shri Mahtab: Last year the export The Minister of Commerce and was 2,11,740 bales and this year the Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) Yes, Sir. export of 16,000 bales has been allow (b) (i) Tatas have been sanctioned ed under the trade agreements with Rs. 100 lakhs net for essential replace China and other countries, which ments and improvements of their means that we also import something plant which are considered necessacy essential from these countries and in to stabilize production at the existing exchange we are exporting this quantity level. of yarn to them. (ii) Scob have been sanctioned Rs, ^ fTR : ^ 3TT5TT 14-4S lakhs net for small improvements and for balancing of their plant which are considered necessary to step up production to the rated capacity. 091 Oral Answers 23 AUGUOT 1951 Oral Answers •92 R e t e n t io n P r ic e s o f I r o n an d St e e l prices will only come to 100 and 14 lakhs respectively? *478. Slirl Alexander: Will the Mlxils- ter of Comiiinrce and Industry be Shri Mahtab: That is correct. pleased to state: Shri Hussain Imam: May I know (a) the incidence of Iron and Steel whether there has been any directive prices as a result of the recent report that no part of this increase would be. of the TarifT Board regarding the re paid to shareholders in the shape of tention prices payable to manufac additional profit and to labour in the turers; shape of additional bonus? (b) whether there was any under taking on the part of the manufac Shri Mahtab: That is correct. This turers to increase the output of Steel . has been allowed for the express pur and Iron; and pose of replacement of machinery and improvement of plants. (c) whether exemptions are made in the case of quotas of steel and iron Shri A. C. Guha: Is it not true that a allotted to agriculturists or to manu certain portion of the increased reve facturers of agricultural implements? nue due to the increase in retention The Minister of Commerce and prices will be taken by these two com Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) The in panies as part of their own net profits? crease in the retention prices p^iyable to Tatas and Scob has not affected the Shri Mahtab: That is not correct. selling prices of the various categories The whole question was examined by of iron and steel for the consiuners the Tariff Board with the assistance except in the case of galvanised sheets, of a technical adviser and the Tariff galvanised wires and tin plates. In the Board reported that this amount has case of these excepted categories, the to be given to them for replacement of increase in selling price comes to Rs. machinery and improvement of their 10 0, Rs. 60 and Rs. 150 per ton, plants, so that the production m ayb e respectively. kept at the existing level. (b) No, Sir. Shri A. C. Guha: May I know (c) No, Sir. whether any account was taken about the Increased cost of production per Shri A. C. Guba: At what rate per ton? ton has depreciation been allowed to Shri Mahtab: All these were taken Tatas and SCOB? into account by the Tariff Board. Shri Mahtab: I am sorry the figures are not available with me. As I have P a k is t a n R aid s A c r o ss ‘*Cea se>f ir k said the selling prices have been* kept L in e ’’ at the same level except in the case* of galvanised sheets, galvanised wires M74. Shri Kshudlram Mahato: WiU the Prime Minister be pleased to state: and tin plates. With regard to the rest the selling price remains the same. (a) the action taken by the Pakistan The retention prices vary from item Government on India's protests re to item. garding raids made by Pakistani Shri A. C. Guha: What will be the across cease-fire line in Kashmir; and total revenue earned by these two (b) the total number of casualties companies due to the increase in and total loss of property which re retention prices? . sulted from the raids? Shri Mahtab: Rs. 100 lakhs in the The Deputy Minister of External case of the Tatas.and 14 48 lakhs in Affairs (Dr. Keskar): (a) When a raid the case of SCOB. takes place the general practice Is to Shri A. C. Guha: That is only . for report the incident to the Chief United depreciation. What is the total increase Nations Observer. The Pakistan Gov in revenue for these two companies ernment have also been kept fully due to the rise in retention prices? informed of these violations, mostly through their Army Headquarters or Shri Mahtab: This increase has been the United Nations observers. We do allowed to them in order to enable not know what action the P:^kistan them to replace their machinery and Government takes on India’s protests make improvements in their plant. regarding these raids, but in some Accordingly the retention pvices have cases, through the intervention of the been raised. United Nations Observers or follow ing protests to Pakistan, persons Shri A. C. Guha: Are we to under abducted during the raids have been hand that the increase in retention released. . 593 Oral Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Oral Answers 604 From January 1 , 1951 to July 16, the moment think of any such parti 1951< cular incident having been complained of by the Pakistan Government, al t I apiT 3 iT !T ^ ^ (b) It is too early to say. No results had been reported by the U.P.S.C. up TWT 3TT I to 31st July 1951. [Dr. Keskar: As I said in my answer, M a in t e n a n c e A l l o w a n c e no reply has been received from them. It has many times been stated here in *473. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the reply to questions as to how many Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased raids have taken place in the various to state: months. There is a record maintained (a) the number of applications by for that and if the hon. Member, the aged displaced persons for monthly wishes, it can be placed before him.] maintenance allowances received up to date: H o s p it a l in K o d a r m a M ica A rea (b) the number disposed of so far *475. Shri jDani Ram; Will the and the number still awaiting decision: Minister of Laboitr be pleased to (c) the maximum allowed to any in state: dividual under the present scheme; and (a) the progress so far made in the (d) whether there is a proposal to construction of the Hospital for labour enhance this allowance? in the Kodarma Mica area; and (b) the expenditure so far incurred? The Minister of State for Rehabilita tion (Shri A. P. Jain): (a) and (b). The Minister of Labour (Shri Jag- As the maintenance Allowance Scheme Jivan Ram): (a) Lands for the Hospital caters for displaced persons who are buildings and staff quarters have been aged, infirm, widows, unattached acquired and detailed plans and esti women and minors, no separate figures mates have been finalised. Arrange are available for ‘‘aged** displaced ments for the supply of bricks, etc., persons only. have also been made. Work for the construction of the buildings will be (c) Maximum amount is Rs. 100 P.M. taken up very shortly (d) As the scales of Maintenance (b ) About Rs. 43,000. Allowance have been revised only recently, Government have no intention Shri Jnani Ram: rose— to revise them further. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The Question- hour is over. Kosi P roject Some Hon. M^bers: There is still *476. Shri Jnani Ram: Will the one minute more. Prime Minister be pleased to state: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Who is to de (a) whether it is a fact that during cide when it is over,.. his recent visit to Bihar he made a statement that all priority would be An Hon. Member: Now it is over: given to Kosi Project; Shri Gadgil: Even the clock is abid ing by your ruling. (b) whether the matter"* has been taken up by the Planning Commission Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I must be H Jight of the aforesaid staten>eiit; allowed to judge by my own eyes. and The Question-hour is over. (c) the period by which the work is to be completed? WRITTEN ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- R e tr ench ed O f p ic e r s lal Nehru): (a) to (c). The Prime •472. Shri S. N. Sinha: Will the Minister was greatly Impressed by Minister of Labour be pleased to state: the necessity of proceeding with the Kosi project. In view of the magni (a) the total number of retrenched tude of the project and also because officers registered with the Central Co various preliminary enquiries in con ordination Office so far; and nection with the high dam etc., had (b) how many have been provided not been concluded, there was no with jobs through this office up to this possibility of undertaking the entire time? scheme. Different parts of the scheme were then examined separately and The Minister of Labour (Shri Jag- it was found that they could be sepa Jivan Ram): (a) 121 retrenched Cla.ss rated, each part yielding some result. I, Class II and Commissioned Officers The Prime Minister recommended of the Government of India had been that the first part might be accepted registered up to 31st July 1951. and step.^s taken to begin it. M7 Written Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Written Answers BH The project involves the co-operation (a) whether Government propose to of the Nepal and' Bihar Governments. give any protection to the handloom The Bihar Government have been industry in the country; if so, what pressing for another river valley pro and when; ject (the Gandak) also. The Planning (b) whether it is a fact that Gov Commission made it clear that they ernment have directed that supply of could not, at this stage, even consider yarn to handloom industries be made two. such projects at a time. not through the State but 'District authorities; and The matter is being examined from various aspects and the Planning (c) whether there has been any ex Commission is giving it full considera ceptions to this rule and if so, why? tion. The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) Ade C loth and Y a r n to T r a v a n c o r e -C o c h in quate protection has already been «477. Shri Alexander; Will the Minis given to the handloom industry by ter of Commerce and Industry be reserving certain fields of production pleased to state: of textiles exclusively for it. (b) No. (a) whether it is a fact that the Travancore-Cochin Government com (c) Does not arise. plained of the acute shortage of cloth I n d u s t r ia l H o u s in g Sc h e m e and yarn in the State and if so, what steps are taken to relieve the same; ♦480. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Minis (b) what was the quantity asked for ter of Labour be pleased to state: smd what was the quantity allotted; (a) whether it is a fact that the (c) whether any mill has opened Government of India have decided to fair price shops in the State and if so, extend the Industrial Housing Scheme which are the mills; and to Part B and some of the Part C States where it was not in operation; (d) whether it is a fact that the State has asked for a flpced quota of (b) if so, what is the total amount yarn to manufacture exportable hand- of capital required', and loom varieties and if so, what reply (c) what is the target fixed in each was given? of these States? The Minister of Commerce and The Minister of Labour (Shri Jag- Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) and (b). jivan Ram): (a) Yes. The Travancore-Cochin Government (b) Under the provisional scheme— complained about shortage of cloth. which is still not the final scheme— As overall supply of cloth to the State two-third of the capital cost of the has increased, no special sleps are houses will be provided by the Centre considered necessary except for mak as interest free loans and one-third by ing increased releases of mulls and the State Governments concerned or gada cloth in the quota, as requested employers sponsored by therti as loans by the State. on 3 per cent, interest. The Govern The State also asked for an allot ment of India have earmarked a sum ment of bales of yarn in / s of Rs. 1*68 crores to be advanced in 200 2 20 the current financial year for the counts in June 1951 against which 120 bales were released in addition to the implementation of the Scheme. normal quota. Again at the end of (c) The ^um of Rs. 1*68 crores July 1951 the State asked for additional referred to in part (b) is proposed to allocations, over and above their quota, be allocated to the various State of 500 bales of 2 /20s and 100 bales of Governments in the following manner: cone yarn in counts 20s-26s. In view Assam— 10 lakhs. of the overall shortage of 3'arn, it has Hyderabad—20 lakhs. not been possible to allocate to the Mysore—20 lakhs. State yarn in excess of their share of Madras— 9 lakhs. the available supplies, as it will have Punjab— 5 lakhs, to be at the expense of other States. Madhya Pradesh—10 lakhs. Orissa— 10 lakhs. (c) Yes, Sitaram Spinning and Weav Travancore-Cochin— 10 lakhs ing Mills and Shri Chitra Mills. Delhi— 1 lakh. . (d) No. Bombay— 73 lakhs. H a n d l o o m I n d u s t r y The number ot houses to be x'onstruct- ed in each State cannot be indicated •479. Pandit Munlshwar Datt Upa- at oresent as that will depend on the dhyay: Will the Minister of Commerce cost of buildings, cost of land etc. in and Industry be pleased to state: the different areas. 600 m Written Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Written Amwers Ja p a n e s e P eace T r e a t y C o n f e r e n c e mands for the maintenance of status quo in accordance with the invalidated •481. Dr. Ram Subhas: Sinffh: Will award of the Banks Tribunal in respect the Prime Minister be pleased to state of pay scale, allowances, working whether India has received intimation hours, overtime allowance and medi of the Japanese Peace Treaty Confer cal aid are not conceded. For this ence to be held in San Francisco in purpose the validation of the invalidat September this year? ed award by a legislation is demanded by the Association. Government have The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- no information whether the Associa lal Nehru): Yes. tion is taking any steps to sturt a strike. E x t e n s io n o f R a j p u r a T o w n s h ip (c) Government have since referred * *482. Giani G. S. Musafir: WiU the the dispute in banking companies for Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased adjudication to a three-ttiember to state: Industrial Tribunal. The setUng up of the Tribunal has been announced in (a) the area of land recently ac quired by Government for extension the Press. Banks have also been re of Rajpura Township; and quested to display the order in every branch so that bank employees may (b) the likely date by which the know that their dispute with the bank said area will be actually utilised for management is being adjudicated upon the purpose of extension? by a Tribunal. The Minister of State for Rehabilita tion (Shri A. P. Jain): (a) 1727 acres. FiN A N cuL A s s is t a n c e to E v a c u e e O r p h a n s (b) 985 acres have already been put under town construction operations ♦485. Shri S. N. Das: Will the Prime" this year and the balance of 742 acres Minister be pleased to state: is expected to be put under use in not (a) the total expenditure on account distant time. of contributions made jto the various States for grant o f financial assistance R a jp u r a T o w n s h ip to the Indian evacuee o r p h ^ from * «483. Giani G. S. Musafir: Will the Burma and Malaya upto 1950^1; Minister of Rehabilitation be pleased (b) the contributions that have been to state: ' made to various State Governments (a) whether it is a fact that Raj during the current year giving the pura Township (PEPSU) is exclusive number of orphans receiving as 8(istanre ly meant for the rehabilitation of dis from each of them; placed persons from Bahawalpur; and . (c) the total number of orphans to (b) whether it is a fact that dis whom assistance has been given under placed persons other than those from this scheme; and Bahawalpur are denied treatment and (d) how long this scheme will have admission in the Hospital provided for to be continued? the said Rajpura Township? The Deputy Minister of External The Minister of State for Rehabilita Affairs (Dr. Keskar): (a) Rs. 2,18,878. tion (Shri A. P. Jam): (a) Yes. (b) The information is as follows: (b) No. B a n k E m p l o y e e s ' St r ik e Contribu- * *484. Shri Amolakh Chand: Will the State No. of tion Minister of Labour be pleased to stater orphan! (a) whether it is a fact that the Govern Bank Employees Federation is plan* ment ning a general strike of all Bank Em of ployees in India from the 27th August, India 1951: Rs. (b) if so, the reasons therefor; and Madras . . . 159 26,300 (c) what steps Government have 2,500 taken to publicise the correct facts in West Bengal . . Uttar Pradesh . 3I 6,200 regard to this? Punjab . . • 5 500 The Minister of Labour (Shri Jag- Bihar . . . 3 Jlvan Ram): (a) and (b). The All Orissa . • • 12 800 India Bank Employees’ Association Mysore . . • 8 2,000 has informed Government that employees in banks in the country will 234 38,800 go on strike if the Association’s de 222 P.SJ3. 601 Written Answers 23 AUOUS^ IMl Written Answtfs hh^ (C ) 656. dtjring the same period was ^ 6 *5 million dollars. (d) The Scheme which was formulat ed for the long-term maintenance of Installation or Steel PLANts refugee orphans will continue at least till they attain majority. •488. Shri Uiborinnliu (a) Will the Minister of CMmoree Md R a je n d r a H ig h S c h o o l i n Sin d r i Industry be pleased to state wholtor Government have finally given up the •486. Shri Sidhva: (a) Will thp idea of histallhig the two Iron and Minister of Works, Protection and Steel Plants in Madhya Pradesh and. Supply be pleased to state whether Orissa? there is Rajendra High School in Sindri for the education of the children (b) Was this matter passed on to of workers in Sindri Project? the: PlanAtng Commission for its consi deration? (b) What is the total number of The Minister of Commerce and pupils in the school? Industry (Shri Mnhtah): (a) No, Sir. (c) What is the income and expen^ (b) This maitter has also been con diture? sidered by the Pkintiing Comf»ri^»sion. (d) Is it a fact that ex-Minister Dr. Mukerjee made a donation for •WItiEt'irtS (fiwlw) school and also Shri Mahtab strongly recommended support to the School? w w f : («p) The Minister of Works, Production and Supply (Shri Qadgil): (a) Yes. Sir. The school caters for the educational needs of the children and wards of the *iw , <8WT ^ artif Fertilizer Project employees as well as »iit ^ fw s ft the redidents of the villafifes around Smdri. *rr!TT ^ ^ ? (b) Near about 550. { ^ ) w ^ ^ (c) The monthly income is Rs. 2.055 ^ 3 0 ^ 3r«TT *TTW made up of: VT VT 8fF?rf ^ ? (»T) WT wr *057 V i t w ^ ri> Tuition fees . . . Rs. 505 (w) Grant-in-aid from the Go- Ra. 1,500 T»mr# 3rRrr t ^mnrfr w w t vemment of India. (m)' Qnint-in-aid from Dhanbad Rs-. ,50 Local Board. (»r ) iflw VT ‘ ^ v n Rs. 2,055 I? The monthly expenditure is Rs. 2,700. ( » ) WT n m ^ ^ fV»TT 5|T Tfr t ? (d) Government have no informa tion about Dr. Mukerjee’s donation to ( ^ ) the School. My hon. colleague Shri Hare Krushna Mahatab has recom mended support to the School. Entirau^ o r Caxxle (Export) T rade w it h H ard C u r r e n c y A reas SIM KhaVMder (a) Will the Minister o f ConuBefce ta ft 'M m t r y be •487. Shri Kishorimohan Tripatbi: pleased to state the xpsmskitty of entiails Will the Minister of Commerce and of cows, bullocks and buffaloes and Industry be pleased to state the total guts of sheep and goats that were ex value in terms of dollar of Indian ex ported to foreign countries during the ports to and imports from hard currency areas with effect from the last three years; date on which the Indian rupee was (b) whether these entrails and guts devalued? that are exported to foreign couatries are received back in the form of finish The Deputy Minister of Commetc^ ed goods; and Industry (Shri Karmarfcar): The (c) W hat are those Unished goods total value of Indian exports including that are received back hi India and rerexports to hard currency areas from W hat use is made of them here; October 1949 to May 1951 was 554*3 million dollars and the total value of (d) What is the total cost thereof; imports from hard currency areas (e> whether efforts are b ein g made eej Written Anmern 23 AUGUST 1^5i Written Answers m to prepare those finished goods in ( « ) w r «t’ # TO ^ India; and (f) if so, by what time it would bejjcT f?irr »PJT t possible to do so?] I n d u n s a r r e ste d i n M a l a y a Tlic Deputy. Minister of Commeroe [♦491. Seth Govind Das: Will the and Industry (Shri KamArkarX; (a) It Prime Minister be pleased to state: is not possible to indicate the quantity of these exports, as these ai tides are (a) the number of Indians arrested not specified in- the foreign trade this year in Malaya on suspicion of returns. their complicity in terroristic activi ties:; and (b) to (f>. The required information is not readily available. Efforts are (b) whether some of them have also being made to collect it. been sentenced to death?] The Deputy Minister of External P o s t a l Sa v in g s A c c o u n t s i n P a k is t a n Aifairs (Dr. Keskar): (a). PI Indians *^490. Sardar Hukam Stngli: (a)W ili were arrested during the first half of the Minister of Rehabtlitation be the present year. pleased to state whether it has been (b) One Indian has been sentenced decided to grant, pending settlement to death. with Pakistan, any interim relief to displaced persons who had Postal C a p it a l G oods f r o m B r it a in Sayings Accounts in Pakistan? (b) If aOf what relief is proposed *492. Sliri D. S. Seth: Will the te.be given to such persons? . Ministor of CcMniiievee and badusl^ be pleased to state: ' The Minister of State for Rehabllita- (a) the details of the capital goods tion (Shri A. P. Jain): (a) and (b). A imports from Britain during the first statemewt is placed on the Table of the half of 1951; and House. (b) the general trend of exports to Britain during the current year? Statement The Minister ef Conunerce and Displaced persons v/ho had apoMed Industry (Shri Mabtab): (a) A state< for the transfer of their Post OfBce ment giving details of caoital goods Savings Bank Account up to 31st imported into India from Britain dur March, 1049, but have not been able ing the first half year of 1951 is placed to secure -the transfer are eligible for on the Table of the House. [iSee grant of interim relief. This relief Appendix IIT, annexure No. 3.] will be available to persons who had (b) Exports from India to Britain awrivftd indndia ifrom Pakistan 5by the during the current year show an In 30th September^, 1948 and who ^a^e in crease on the corresponding period indigent I circumfitances and have no last year. other means of livelihood. 2 . The relief will be given for a G e r m a n T o o ls and M a c h in e s period of six months or till the pe\*son is able to get his dues from Pakistan M9S. Shri Sohan Lai: (a> Will the Whichever occurs earher. Th^ fcWow- Minister of Commerce and Industry ing ^re the scales of reHef: be pleased to refer to my Starred Question No. 4820 asked on the 4th (I) W^here the deposit is less than June, 1951 regarding German tools Rs. 1,000, Rs. 75 per month or and machines and state whether the half the deposit spread over tools and machines have been nur- in six monthly Instalments chased in parts or a whole machinery whichever is less. has been purchased; and if in parts (ii) Where the deposit is Rs. 1,000 >x4iether they can be used in any or more, Rs. 100 per month. factory in India? (b) Do Government propose to sell »T5yTJTr^’ fir v B m r v r o i k or transfer these tools and machines to any private firm or will they be used by Governm^t in their own ^ f « r : v n JWR factorias? The Minister of Commerce* and Industrr (ShH Mahtab): ( h) A s far (V ) ^ iraWT V HK- Is known no German tools and mnrhin^s Vipvc been bought at the Hdnnover . Industrial Exhibition on Government ^ Pr<:*wri< ftBTT W t > ^ ^ o p n t, Goyenjfii^nt have no informa 605 Written Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Written Answers 606 tion on private orders placed by Indian (c) whether medium and coarse business v ig o rs to the Exhibition. varieties of cloth also have under (b) Does not arisd. gone -a corresponding fall in prices; and C a lc u t t a T ea A u c t io n s (d) if the answers to parts (a) to *494. Shri M. Nalk: (a) Will the (c) above be in the aflElrmative, the Minister of Commerce and Industry reasons therefor? be pleased to state whether it Is a The Minister ol Commerce and fact that India has lost about Rs. 25 Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) Yes, Sir. lakhs worth of foreign exchange at the tea auctions held in Calcutta ^(b) Reports have been received that during the second week of July, 1951? some categories of fine and superflne cloth are being sold below ex-mill (b) Is there any truth that no prices. buyers were forthcoming for internal auctions? (c) No, Sir. (c) If so» what were the reasons (d) As the prices of fine and super therefor? fine cloth manufactured from foreign The Deputy Minister of Commerce cottons are comparatively high with the and Industry (Shri Kamiarkar): (a) general improvement in cloth supply Indian tea for export, worth about Rs. there is less demand in the market for 25 lakhs, was withdrawn from the such cloth. The prices of fine and Calcutta Tea Auctions early in second superfine cloth have, therefore, re week of July 1951; but there is no gistered fall. There is, however, good reason why the withdrawn tea should demands for coarse and medium cloth not be subsequently sold. . and there has been no such fall in prices. (b) Yes, Sir, there were no bidders for leaf grades and brokens offered at P r o f it M a r g in o n C lo t h P r ic e s the Calcutta auctions of the 9th July, 1951. ^ *497. Shri Ganamukhi: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry (c) It was because of convictions in be pleased to state: two cases, under the Calcutta Munici pal Act, on the ground that the tea was (a) whether it is a fact that the adulterated with stalks. Cloth Merchants Association of Coimbatore and others have urged T ea C h e s t s ( I m p o r t ) the necessity of increasing the profit margin on the sale of cloth from 14 ♦495. Shri Venkataraman: W ill Ihe to 20 per cent.; Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: (b) whether the Civil Supplies Ministers of States have decided in (a) whether representations have their Conference to recommend the been made by the Tea Producers for same to the Government of India; £he issue of licences for the import of ^c) if so, what steps Government six lakhs of Tea chests; and propose to take in this regard; and (b ) if so, what action Government (d) whether the above said have taken in ihe matter? merchants have also pleaded for in The Minister of Commerce and clusion of representatives of cloth Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) Yes,^ Sir. trade on the Cotton and Cloth Advisory Committees appointed by (b) Licences against these six lakh Government? chests are being issued as and when The Minlste<* of Commerce and the imoorters produce evidence to Industry (Shri Mahtab): (a) Yes, Sir. show that they have placed orders on Indigenous manufacturers for their (b) The State Civil Supplies Minis share of the four milli6h tea chests to ters decided not to increase the profit be purchased in India during 1951. margin from 14 to 20 per cent. (c) Does not arise. C lo t h P r ic e s i n B o m b a y (d) Yes, Sir. *496. Shri Ganamukhi: WHl the Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: Salt M o n o p o l y Ya) whether it is a fact that the *498. Shri BivanI: Will the Minister cloth market has recisterM a con of Works, Production and Supply bo siderable fall in Bombay State; pleased to state: (b> whether super-flne and flne (a> whether it is a fact that the S^H cloth are quoted at ten to fifteen Aivisorv Committee has recommended per cent below ex-mill prices; the abolition of salt monopoly; 007 Written Answers 23 AUGUST 1951 Written Answers 606 (b) whether Government have replied that the house and the locality accepted these recommendations; and were suitable and that the manage (c) if so, what steps Government ment was satisfactory. They further propose to take in that direction? pointed out that the selection of the existing lady Superintendent, who The Minister of Works, Production was resident in the Home day and and Supply (Shri Gadgil): (o) to (c). night and had the full complement of Presumably the hon. Member is re necessary staff under her constant ferring to the abolition of the district personal supervision, had been made irominee system. Taking into con after attempts to make a .selection by sideration the unanimous views of the advertising the post had iailed. ' State Governments concerned, the Gov- H o u s e- b u il d in g L o a n s to St ates ernmeixt of India have decided not to abolish this system for the present. 95. Shri Kesava Rao; Will the Minis ter of Labour be pleased to state: A r r e s t o f a n A s s is t a n t C o n t r o l l e r (a) whether any States have applied OF E x p o r t s to the Government of India for loans for their housing schemes; 93. Shri Kamath: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased (b) what is the amount given on to refer to his answer to my starred loan to these States, State-wise; and question No. 4217 aslced on I7th May (c) what is the number of houses to 1951 regarding the arrest of an Assist be built with this loan? ant Controller of Exports at Bombay The Minister of Labour (Shri Jag- and to state what stage the investiga Jivan Ram): (a) The Industrial Hous tion by the police has reached? ing Scheme of the Central Government The Minister of Commerce and Is in operation since 1950-51. For the Industry (Shri Mahtab): Police investi year 1950-51, a sum of Rs. one crore gation into the case has since been was available for distribution as loan completed and the report on the case to State Governments and the Govern is now under consideration. ments of Bombay, Orissa, Madhya Pradesh and Bihar asked ifor loans. the year 1951-52, a sum of Rs. 1.68 D acca H o m e For crores has been provided for and the 94. Shri A. C. Guha: Will the Prime following State Governments have Minister be pleased to refer to the applied for loans: answers given to the supplementary Madras, Punjab. Madhya Pradesh, question raised on starred question Assam, Orissa, Bombay, Hyderabad, No. 26 asked on the 7th August. 1951, Mysore, Travancore-Cochin and Delhi. regarding the conditions of Dacca Home and state: (b )sln 1950-51, Bombay got Rs. 75 lakhs, Orissa and Madhya Pradesh Rs. (a) whether Government propose to 10 lakhs each and Bihar 5 lakhs. It give a statement of the nature of com is proposed to distribute Rs. 1-68 crores plaints received about Dacca Home; provided for in this year’s budget in (b) whether it is a fact tbnt the girls the following manner: housed there are accessible to un healthy outside influence; and Madras 9 lakhs. (c) whether the locality in which Punjab 5 lakhs. the Home is situated Is unsuitable? Madhya Pradesh 10 lakhs. The Minister of States. Transport Assam 10 lakhs. and Railways (Shri Gopalaswami>! (a ) Orissa' 10 lakhs. to (c>. Complaints were received by Bombay 73 lakhs. the Government of India from time to time to the effect that: Hyderabad 20 lakhs. (i) the locality of Dacca Home was Mysore 20 lakhs. unsuitable: and Travancore-Cochin 10 lakhs. (ii) the Home was in charge of a Delhi 1 lakh. lady Superintendent who did not st«v 1-68 crores. there throughout the day and iiitfht and who, being the wife of a subordi (c) The number of houses v'hich can nate Government servant, was iinflble be built with this loan depends, among to stand up against any nbuse of her others, on the cost of building- staff who were alleged to allow materials, land, the amount of money abductors and their friends easy access which State Governments or employers to the Inmates. sponsored by them can provide. 1,712 houfjes have been constructed in The Pakistan Government’s attention Bombay State, 169 houses in Orissa, having been drawn to these, they 600 Written Answers 23 AUCarST 1951 Written Aauwerg 610 400 houses: in Madhya Pradejfa and 85 (b) The property consists of houses, houses in Bihar, are nearing com shops, land and factory premise?i. As pletion. the number of these properties is very large, it is not possible to give any H a n d -l o o m C lo th pr o d u c ed in more particulars. M adras (c) (i) The required fnfonnation 4s 96. Dr. M. V. Ganffadhara Siva: Will not available and the amount of time the Minister of Commerce and Indus and labour involved in its collection try be pleased to state what was the will not be commensurate v/ith the approximate production of handloom results acdiieved. cloth in the State of Madras, during (ii) Only in two cases has exemption the years 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950, been granted by Government. Shri respectively? Mohd. Ismail Japanwala and Shri The Minister of Commerce and Fero2 e-Ud-Din Japanwala have been Industry (Shri Mahtab): The approxi exempted from the operation of the mate production of handloom cloth in provisions of Chapter IV of the the State of Madras during the years Administration of Evacuee Property 1947, 1948, 1949 and 1950 is given Act, which deals with ijitendiog below: evacuees. A r thft property of “ intend ing evacuees'* is not taken over by the Custodian, it is not possible io r Gov Years In Million ernment to know the approximate yards value 6f property in these cases. (d) No. 1947 • 3 8 3 8 3 1948 . * 104*42 (e) Certificates of restoration are (Jan-Apxir48) granted under this section generally in 1949 • 497.29 cases where it is proved to the sati&* 1950 • 339.97 faction o f GovernmeDt that tne person concerned never left India for Pakis •Since cotton yam was decontrolled tan. Apart from the Meos of Gurgaon, information regarding the approximate Alwar and Bharatpur. the Gaddis of consumption of yarn after April, 1U48 Bharatpur. and the Muslims of Buria, is not available, and hence production whose property was restored under cannot be estimated. general orders, the Central CJovem- ment has given certificates only in 23 E v a c u e e P r o p e r t y cases. 07. Shri Raj Kanwar: Will the Minis ter of Rehabilitation be pleased to MiNiSTRY OP L a b o u r (S x A rr) state: ^ 98. Prof. K. T. Shah: Will the Minis (a) the total number of “evacuees’* ter of Labour be pleased to state: and “ intending evacuees** dedared under the “Administration of Evaeuee (a) the number of (i) Gazetted, and Property Act**; (ii) non^(j«zetted o£Bcers, c le ^ and Class IV servants in the Ministry and (b) the brief particulars or ^details its attached and subordinate ofAces on: of “poor* of evacuee property so far registered; (i) 15th August, 1947; (ii) 81st (c) (i) the total number of applica March, 1948; (iii) 31st March, tions received for exemptions under 1949; (iv ) Slat March, 1950; Section 52 of the Act, and (ii) the num and (v ) 31st March, 19M; ber of exemptions granted by the Gov and ernment of India, with the approximate (b) the number of oflftcers. clerks value of property involved in each and Class IV servants appointed tejw^ case; porarily in the first instance and sub (d) whether in any such case the sequently (i) made permanent, (ii) re Government of India passed orders tired or (iii) retrenched, during each while the matter was sitb judice and of the years 1947-48 (post-Partition), if so, for what reasons; and 1948-49. l«4«-50 and 19S0-51? (e) the number of certificates, if any, XlM^ Minister ol Labour (Shri Jag- granted by Government under Section Jlvan Ram): (a) and (b). Information 16 of the Act? is being collected and wiU be placed on ■ The Minister of State for KehabiUta- the Table of the House in due course.# tion (Shri A, P. Jain): (a) Information L ead P e n c il s is riot available and the amount of time and labour involved in Its collection 100. ShH Sldhva: (a) Will the Minis, will not be commensurate with the re ter of Co^mmerce and Industry be sult achiever^ pleased to state what are the total re m WHtten Answefs 23 AUGUST 1951 ^rittefL Anitu^rs quirements of lead pencils of all kinds (d) A statement is laid on the Tabt^ per year? of the House. * (b) What is the actual annual pro duction in the country? (e) Yes, Sir. The Bombay Sl«tiorteiP^ (c) What quantity was reported as Association has represented for an having been imported in the years 1948. increase in the licensing quota of lead 1949, and 1950 from foreign countries? pencils. (d) What was the licence quota for import of pencils in 1950 and what Is (f) No, Sir, as there is sufficient the quota at present? productive capacity in the country (e) Have any associations demanded and as the production is steadily on that the quota be increased to meet the increase, the Government have, at the requirements and reduce prices? present, no intention to increase the (f) Do Government intends to In import quota. crease the import quota for lead pen cils during the current year? The Deputy Minister of Commerce Statement and Industry (Shri Karmarkar): (a) 500,000 gross (Estimated).' January-June, 1950—No import was (b) allowed. Year Production July-December. 1950—20 oer cent, of 1949 . • . 48.606 gross. half of best year’s imports for import 1950 * iio »936 gross. of artists pencils from soft currency 1951 . 250,000 gross (esti areas only. * mated.) (c) January-June 1951— 10 per cent, of half of best year’s imports. Year Quantity . . . 243,362 gross. July-December, 1950—20 per cent, of 1948 1951 licences have been doubled to 1949 . • 38,008 gross. 1950 . .. . 24,372 gross. meet the requirements for July- December, li)5l Thursday, 23rd August, 1951 'V|. I ^ I PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (Fut_n—Fioceedings other than Questions acd Answers) OFFICIAL REPOET VOLUME XIV, 1951 (6th August, 1951 to 29th August, 1951) Fourth Session of the PARLIAMENT OF INDIA IS6I , c o m i E ^ Volume X I V,— €th August, 1951 to 29th August, 1951 Columns Monday, 0th August, 1951— President’s Address to Parliament . 1—28 Tuesday, 7th August, 1951— Motions for Adjournment— Exorbitant rise in the price of cloth . . . 29 Civil Deferxse of India against invasion by Pakistan . 29—31 Papers laid on the Table— President’s Assent to B i l l s ...... 31 Report of the India Delegation to the Twelfth Session of the United Nations Economic aUd Social CJotmcil . . . • • • 31—32 President’s Proclamation assuming to himself all fimotions of the Govern m e n t of Punjab . • . • . . . . . • 32 Expenditure incurred on Medical Treatment in India and abroad of Ministers 32 Toofan Express Accident ...... 32 Ordinances promulgated after the termination of the Third Session of Parlia ment 1960-51 . • • • • • • • • • 32 Essential Services (Prevention of Strikes) BilK-Introduced . . 33 Indian Railways (Amendment) Bill—lntrodueed .... 33 Parliament Prevention of Disqualification Bill—Further consideration of clauses—Postponed 33—79 Assam (Alteration of Boimdaries) BiU—Disoussion on m tion to consider— Not concluded ....••••• 80—100 Wbdnbsday, 8th August, 1951— Business of the House— Hours of Sitting . • 101 Papers laid on the Table— Expenditnre from the Aviation Share of the Petrol Tax Fund . . 102 Indian Companies (Amendment) Bill—Introduced . . . • 102 Punjab State Legislature (Delegation of Powers) Bill—Introduced . 102—03 Assam (Alteration of Boundaries) Bill—Passed, as amended . . 103—62 Ancient and Historic^ Monuments and Archaeological Sites and Remains " — claration of National Importance) Bill—Discussion on motion to consi —Not concluded ...... 162—90 Thxtbsday , 9 th A u g u s t , 1951— Papers laid on the Table— Notifications under Section 2C of Insurance Act, 1938 . . . 191 Amendments to Cinematograph (Censorship) Rules, 1951 ... 191 Notification in accordance with Section 4 A of Indian Tariff Act, 1934 . 192 Appropriation Accountls—Defence Services, 1948-49 : Audit Report, Defence fervices, 1950 ; Commercial Appendix to Appropriation Accounts, Defence Services, 1948-49; Appropriation Accounts—Railways, 1948-49 (Part« I a n d I I ): Railway Audit I l ^ r t , 1950; Balance Sheets of Railway CoUieries and Statements of all-in cost of coal etc. for 1948-49; and Capital Statements, Balance Sheets and Profit and Loss Acco\mt« of Govt.. Railways, 1948-49. 192—93 Resolution re President’s Proclamation o n Failure of Constitutional Machinery in Punjab—Adopted . . • • • • . . . . 193—255 " Anoi«m1bTand Historical Monuments ar d Archaeological Sites and Remains (Declaration of National Importance) Bill—Further Consideration postponed 255—60' _ («) Thubsday, 9th August,W l—CorUd. Columns Business of the House— Change in Hours of Sitting . . . . ^ ...... 260-62 Employment of Children (Amendment) BiU-^Passed, as amended i 262—67 O p h ^ Revenue I^ws (Ertension of AppUoation) Amendment B i l l - ’ x'assed,as amended 267 _71 Sea Customs and the Central Excises and Salt (Amendment) Bill—Passed . 271—73 Rescdution r^onvention for Suppression of Traffic in persons and exploita tion of Prostitution—Further discussion postponed . . . 273 78 Notaries Bill— Motion to consider moved •...!![ 278—80 F r i d a y , 10th August, 1951— Death of Shri Narayana Murthi 2 gj Motions for Adjournment— Dalkhowachar and Salapara I s l a n d s ...... 281 ______83 Alleged election arrangement between Food Minister, U. P „ and Suear Industrialists...... \ 283—84 state Financial Corporations Bill—Presentation of Beport of Select Conunittee 284 Tariff Commission Bill—Presentation of Beport of Select Committee . 284 BiU-Extensionof time for presentation of report of Select Com m ittee...... ^ ^ 284—85 Delhi Premises (Requisition and Eviction) Amendment Bill—Extension of time for presentation of Report of Select Committee .... 286 ___ 9 3 of time for presentation of Report of Select Motion on Address by the President—Discussion not concluded . . . 294—329 Papers laid on the Table— 330— 72. Correspondence between the Prime Ministers of India and Pakistan . . 329 Saturday, 11th August, 1961— Presentation of the Report of the Committee on the Conduct of a Member . 3 7 3 Motion on Address by the President ...... 373—600 M o n d a y , 13th August, —1951 Papers laid on the Table— Statement re Railway Stores Enquiiy Committee • . . , . 5 0 3 Resolution re raising of export duty on groundnuts and levy of export duty on oilseeds and vegetable oils not otherwise apecified—Adopted . . 60 4___ 43 Evacuee Interest (Separation) Bill—Introduced ...... 643 Punjab State L^islature (Delegation of Powers) Bill—Discussion on motion to consider—Not concluded ...... 6 4 4 — 99 Tuesday, 14th August, 1951— Message from the P r e s i d e n t ...... Business of the H o u s e ...... Punjab State Legislature (Delegation of Powers) Bill—Discussion on motion to consider—Not concluded ...... Thursday, 16th August, 1951— Indian Explosives (Amendment) Bill—I n t r o d u c e d ...... Qg Punjab State Legislature (Delegation of Powers) Bill—^Further consideration portponed...... > O^dian Companies (Amendment) Bill—Referred to Select Committee . . 710—74 F r i d a y , 17th August, 1951— Papers laid on the Table— . Statement showing action taken by Qovemment on ae»urane «8 etc.. eiven during Third Session (Second Part) 1961 ...... 7 7 5 Punjab State Legislature (Delegation of Powers) BiU—Passed, as amended . 776—821 Delhi and Ajmer Jlent Control Bill—Referre(J to Select Committee . . , 821—31 (iii) F biday, 17th August, 1961— O o n t d . O o l u m n a NotarieeBiU—Discussion on motions to consider and to refer to Select Ck>m- mittee—^Not concluded 832— 41 Import of Dates ...... 842—62 .S a t u r d a y , 1 8 t h A u g u s t , 1 9 6 1 — Displaced Persons (Debts Adjustment) Bill—^Introduced .... 863 Notaries Bill—Referred to Select C o m m i t t e e ...... 853—66 Evacuee Interest (Separation) Bill—Referred to Select Committee . . 866—99 Tariff Commission Bill—^Discussion on motion to consider—Not concluded . 899—930 M o n d a y , 2 0 t h A u g u s t , 1 9 6 1 — Forward Contracts Bill—Presentation of Report of Seleet Committee . . 931 Displaced Persons (Debts Adjustment) Bill—Referred to Select Committee . 931— 74 Tariff Commission Bill—Discussion on motion to consider, as reported by the Select Committee—^Not concluded ...... 974— 1014 T u e s d a y , 2 1 s t A u g u s t , 1 9 5 1 — Papers laid on the Table—(») Amendments to Delhi Motor Vehicles Rules, 1940, (it) Amendments to Punjab Motor Vehicles Rules, 1940 . . 1016— 16 Tariff Commission Bill—Consideration of clauses—^Not concluded . . 1016—98 W e d n e s d a y , 2 2 n d A u g u s t , 1951 — Papers laid on the Table— Declarations of Exemption under Registration of Foreigners Act, 1939 . 1099—1100 Agreement re Loan from U. S. A. for purchase of Foodgrains . . . 1100—01 Motion for Adjournment— Fast by public men of Andhra re formation of Andhra Province . . 1101—03 Tariff Commission Bill—Consideration of Clauses—Not concluded . 1103—80 T h u b s d a y , 2 3 » d A u g u s t , 1 9 5 1 — Resolution re meMures for increased food production—^Negatived . . 1181— 1206 Resolution re necessity for an All India Bar—Withdrawn . . . 1206—09 Resolution re opening of Provident Fund Accounts in Post Offices— With drawn . . 1209— 11 Resolution re altering the boundaries of West Bengal—^Negatived . A . 1212—64 S a t u r d a y , 2 6 t h A u g u s t , 1 9 6 1 — . • Railway Companies (Emergency Provisions) Bill—Introduced . 1265 Papers laid on the Table— Statement re Food Position ...... 1266—56 Business of the House ...... 1266—69 Tariff Commission Bill—Passed, as amended ...... 1269—87 Benares Hindu University (Amendment) Bill—Referred to Select Committee 1287— 1328 Aligarh Muslim University (Amendment) Bill—Referred to Select Committee 1287— 1328 Government of Part C States Bill—Consideration of clauses—Not concluded 1328—66 M o n d a y , 2 7 t h A u g u s t , 19 6 1 — Statement re Japanese Peace Treaty . 1367—62 IBusiness of the House . . . . 1362—63 Papers laid on the Table— Constitution (Removal of Difficulties) Order No. II (Third Amendment) Order 1363 Third Annual Report of Industrial Finance Corporation . . . .1363 Indian Companies (Amendment) Bill—Extension^ of time for presentation of report of Select Committee...... 1363— 64 Government of Part 0 States BiU—(?oi»sideration of clauses—Not concluded 1364—1426 (iv) T d b 8d a i^ 28 t h A u g u s t , 1961 — Cdtumns Papers laid on the T€0 >1&— (») Recommendation by I. L. C. concerning Vodational training of cuiults in- c lu d ^ disabledperaoDB; and («) Action proposed to be takenby Govern ment of India on the recommendation ..... 1427 Occupation of two islands in the Brahmaputra by Pakistan Police . . 1427—30 Government of Part C States Bill—Consideration of clauses—Not concluded 1430—1624 W e d n e s d a y , 29 t h A u g u s t ; 1961 — Moti(m for Adjournment— Maintenance of electrical equipment in Parliament Chamber 1626—27 Papers laid on the Table— Delhi Road Transport Authority (Advisoiy Council) Rules, 1951 . 1627 Madras Port Trust (Amandment) Bill—Introduced .... 1627 Government of Part C States Bill—Consideration of clauses—Not concluded 1628—94 t h e P^^IAMENTARY DEBATES (Part II— Proceedings other than Questions and Answers), OFFICIAL REPORT 1181 1182 PARLIAMENT OF INDIA * Shri Kamath: I,^.beg to move: Thursday, 23rd August, 1951 “That the q^ttion be now put"^, ' Shri Sidhva (Madhya Pradesh>r May I point out. Sir, that there were The House met at Half Past Eight several amendments moved to this of the Clock. Resolution last time and that those Members have not been given an op [M r. DEPUTY-SPEAKiiR in the Chair] portunity to speak? I therefore con tend that opportunity should be given QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS to discuss the Resolution further now. After all the question of food (See Part I) is a very important one. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Has the hon. 9-30 Aja. Member not spoken? RESOLUTION RE MEASURES FOR Shri Sidhva: I have not. I too have . INCREASED FOOD PRODUCTION given notice of *an amendment — concld. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: All right, he Mr. Depaty-Speaker. The House may speak. will now proceed with the further discussion of the following Reisolu-' tion moved by Dr. Mono Mohon Das Shri Sidhva: Sir, last time on the on the 4th April, 1951':— non-official day we discussed - the qufestion of food on the Resdution^ “ This House is of opinion that moved by my friend, Dr. Mono Mohon a Committiee consisting of ten Das. In view of the fact that we are members of Parliament be ap taking it up again after nearly four pointed to examine in detail months I think it would be desirable the measures taken by different to refresh the memory of the House States for increased food produc as to what the Resolution aims a t tion and the expenditure by them The gist of my hon. friend’s Resolu-' of the Union Government’s grants tion is that the food problem being, and loans to them for that pur very serious a committee may be ap pose” . pointed to con^der the question, My^ amendment suggests that while I sup port the Resolution for the appoint Fifteen Members have already ment of a committee, that committee- spoken on this Resolution. Hon. Mem should also be asked to investigate bers will remember the time limit on scientifically into whether the food: speeches is flfteeen minutes. As there problem is so acute as is contemplat are a number of other Resolutions on ed to be, and whether there is an3T the Order Paper I leave the question defect in the system of procurement of pace to the hon. Members. and distribution. Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): May I, Sir, submit that this Resolution Dr. Deshmiikh (Madhya Pradesh): has been discussed sufficiently, and May I rise to a point of order? This the House might proceed to discuss question is more or less of a topical the next Resolution on the list of nature and, moreover, there was a business? , very thorough discussion of it some four months ago. The whole situa Mr. Depnty-Soeaker The debate tion has since undergone such a com shall go on until someone moves for plete change that most of the speeches' closure. then made are almost all out of dates. 259 PSD ^183 Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increosecf food HS4 production [Dr. Deshmukh] on food being raised during the There are, besides, other Resolutions question hour. Now that very fact notice of which has been given. I proves how intensely Members feel would, therefore, like you, Sir, to give about the food shortage—I don’t know a ruling as to whether the whole how my friend. Dr. Deshmukh feels question has now not ceased to be to the contrary unless of course there of much great importance and whe is ample food in Madhya Pradesh and ther the debate on the motion should because he is getting sufficient rice not, under the di\a)nged circumstan- probably he does not care for the rest res, be -terminated, of the country. Mr. Depnty-Speaker: I do not think My point is that the question has become very serious and becomes 1 can give any ruling with respect to more and more so every day. Not only that matter. All I can say is that that, an alarmirg situation has ari immediately after the hon. Member, sen owin? to the fact that even though Mr. :f:dhva, who is speaking con we are spendmg more than Rs. 150 cludes, if the House wants to close crores annually for the purchase of discussion, and if any hon. Member foodgrains from abroad, yet there is moves for closure, I will ascertain the the complaint .that food is not avail view of the House Fo far as I am able. What is the reason for this? As concerned, 1 would like to say that the hon. Minister stated the other day fifteen Members have already spoken there is no rice, only wheat is com- before. It is not as if every hon, mg from abroad, that the quality of Member who has given notice of an rice that we may get is bad. Well, we amendment ought to speak. If the want all these matteis examined scien- House wants to conclude the debate tiflcally. In its report the Planning I have no objection. Commission says that imports should Shri Kamath: At least when non continue for another five years, and official ma ions are discussed every their reason for that is that the popu Member who has tabled an amend lation is going on increasing. If that ment must be given a chance to speak is the only reason then has Govern because on official -Bills Members do ment considered any steps to meet it? not get a fair chance. If they feel that the problem of food cannot be solved until the population Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There are problem is solved, then let them come seven Re.«?olutions in the Order Paper; out with definite proposals to solve each one of them has about fifteen population problem. They merely say to twenty amendments- At this rate that population, is creating havoc in we will not go into more than one the country m the matter of fbod—as Resolution. Therefore hon. Members if the population was not increasing must not be anxious for both the during the last two decades! We know things. . that in every decade there has been The Deputy - Minister of Food and an increase in population of nearly Agrieulture (Shri Thimmala Rao): two to three crores but there was not May I point out, Sir, that out of those such a distress in the country as there^ who have given notice of amendments is today. Therefore, while I concede seven or eight have spoken so far? the increase in population, I am not prepared to accept the statement that Shri J. N. Hazarika (Assam): 1 sug the food shortage is due merely to gest we discuss th» present motion increase iil population. I say, as I at great length. The food situation is have been saying so far, that there is daily growing acute. something wrong somewhere. Procure Shri Naziruddin Ahmad (West Ben ment is very defective. Only the other day the procurement fibres were gal): We want food and not discussion. given to us and I said then that ex Mr. Deputy-Speaker. Anyhow, I cepting two minoc States, namely will ascertain the view of the House Bhopal and Himachal Pradesh, the later. Mr. Sidhva may now proceed. rest o ft h e States had not procured to the target fixed. In some cases Shri Sidhva: I do not know how the hardly 40 per cent, had been procur situation has at all changed since the ed. This Government have been stat discussion ,on this motion four months in? that while they fix the procure ago...... , ment target, actual procurement was a matter absolutely for the State Gov Dr. Deshmukh: I can prove it, ernments. Well, if the State Govern Shri Sidhva: The sityaHon has be ments do not comply with the target - come more acute. More and more fixed then what is the remedy for the foodgrains arrive from foreign coun Central Government to adopt? Have they ever considered it? If they feel tries and in this very House not a the State Governments are autgnomous single day passes without a question 1185 B e ^ i i o n te. measures 23 A tlO tlS T 1951 for incased food 129^ Vfodudwn want gifains imporledt is os&ailj 5 to to tot^ere. may I know what is 6 per cent, of dirt...... the solution then? Is there no solu tion? The Centre has got the power Mr. Dwtj-Speaker: 1 am afraid tiie to intervene as they like, under the hon. Member’s amendment is out of Constitution. If they do not want to order—I do not know how it was al take that power then what other lowed to be moved. The resolution is method do they want to adopt to see this; that procurement is obtained to the “ This House is of opinion that fullest extent? These are very sim a Committee consisting of ten ple points for the Government to con members of Parliament be appoint sider. They have no answer to give, ed to examine in detail the mea no plan to offer—that is my complaint sures taken by different States for and that has been my complaint all increased food production and the along. expenditure by^Jhem of the Union In the matter of import of Government’s frants and loans to loodgrains, Government have ap them for that purpose.” pointed a certain association in Increased food production may be Bombay for the purpose of analysis of necessary or may not be necessary— food. ■ we may assume it may not be neces Shri Thimmala Rao: May I draw sary. But steps are being taken to the attention of the hon. Member to increase the production of food; money the fact ihai the resolution de^s only is being distributed to ^he provinces the “measures taken by different for that purpose.' The object of the States for increared food production resolution is the appointment of a «nd the expenditure by them of the committee with a view to seeing how Union Government’s grants and loans far that money is properly utilised and to them for that ourpose.” Therefore, best use made of it. That is the limit the observations he has “been making ed scope of this resolution. By his ar? beside the point. amendment the hon. Member wants to ascertain Shri Sidhva: I would ask my hon. friend to read mj- amendment where “ whether the country is self I have suggested the addition of the sufficient in the production of following at the end: cereals and whether the present system of distribution and oro- “ and also to ascertain whether curement is effective.” the country is self-sufficient in the production of cereals and whether This goes against the very spirit of the present system of distribution the resolution It is impUcit in the and procurement is effective.” resolution that foodgrains have to be grown. All that it aims at is that a I am, therefore, speaking strictly on committee should be appointed to Md m y . amendment. There is at present out whether the money spent on this no scientific process for the pj^rpose is properly utilised. of arriving at the conclusion that the food available in the country is not I, therefore, do not think that the sufficient. At any rate, I do hot want hon. Member’s amendment .is in order to enter into that contentious subject and rule it out. • by quoting figures. All I need is that Government ha^e no correct statfeti- Shri SMhira: I shall then sneak on cal data. One of the reasons, which the Resolution proper and confine my 1 have pointed out previously, is that self to an examination as to whether they do not follow any scientific method the money spent on the grow more for calculating the adult equivalent, food campaign is well spent in regard to which there is great dif Out of Rs. 240 crores spent by Part ference between government’s basis A States on reclamation of land and and scientific basis. The scientists all other schemes, the Government of over the world calculate it at 80 per cent, and until about four years back India has paid a subsidy of Rs. 122 Government themselves were adopt crores, In spite of the huge amount ing this formula. But now they have involved it is very alarming and amaz ing to find that the quantum of food changed it to 86 per cent. I, therefore, production in the country has not in want to have this matter examined creased, consistently with the amount by the scientists of the world to ena ble Government to know whether their spent. Besides this huge amounts percentage is correct. have.been spent by the State Govern- merns and private individuals on the Sir, I was on the question of analy sinking of wells, purchase of fertilizers sis. when my hon. friend the Deouty etc. The value of tractors and fertili Minister interrupted me. In the food- zers alone has come to Rs. 27 crores. 1187 Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for, increased food 1188 production Mr. Deiraty-Speaker: A year? and find out the truth. I do realise that some of the Members may not Sbri Sidhva: All told, during the have the time to spare on account of last four years. But inspite, of tl» ^ e impending elections. But this is increase in the number of tractors, a very important matter which should inspite of the increase in the consump be enquired into before the expiry of tion of fertilisers, food is not avail the life of this Parliament. I hope we able. Am I not correct, therefore, in would be in a position t Shri Thiminala Rao: May I know Shri Sidhva: Mr. Thirumala Rao’s where the hon. Member got the figure committee only consisted of himself of Rs. 27 crores spent on tractors from? and one other officer. Shri Sidhva: From a reply that was Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let us not go given by my hon. friend in answer lo into The ^ details. a question and the official reply Shri Sidhva: I do not want to go that .1 received from the Ministry of into the details. Sir. You asked me Agriculture. There was a debate on a question and I answered you. that subject also. The hon. Member may verify, if he wants. The other day we were told that an officer of As you have already warned me Government has gone abroad to pur that my time is over I do not wish to say anything - more. I have discus chase tractors. sed these points and I whole-hearted ly support the motion moved by my Shri Thiminala Rao: He has not friend Drr Das. He has not given the gone to purchase tractors but spares. names, but if the House is agreeable Mr. Depnty-Speaken The hon. we may have ...... Minister will have a chance to reply. Shri Kamath: Seven. Shri Tbimmala Rao: I stood out of courtesy, because the hon. Member Shii Sidhva: Whatever it may be. If looked at me, expecting a reply. the House accepts, then I am sure Dr. Das will give the names and 1 hope Mr. Depnty-Speaken It is perhaps a tho Committee will certainly consider mannerism of the hon. Member. the matter. Shri Sidhva: I stand corrected, if I Dr. M. M. Das (West Bengal) :^May am wrong. In regard to some discus I saa, Sir, that this very question that sion on the CTO we heard the other I had not mentioned the names of the day that there are a lot of surplus and Members for the Committee was r ^ - unserviceable parts lying in the depot. ed on 4th April when this Resolution Am I not, therefore, justified in stat was discussed, and the Speaker was ing that there is something wrong pleased to explain that the Committee with the CTO, whose primary duty is is to be appointed b^ Government, not to increase the area under cultivable by me? So there is no point m that land? argument. When the Central Government ad Shri Kamath: By Parliament. vance money to the provinces and afford them all facili^es in the matter Shri Sidhva: It is your motion. of grow more food, there should be some agency to see whether the money Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Shri J. N. spent is properly utilised. Consider Hazarika. ing all these factors, the appointment of a committee to go into this matter is justified. I would, however, sug Shri J. N. Hazarika: It is very much gest, without meaning any kind of to be welcomed that this Resolution disrespect to anybody, that the com has come up for discussion before the mittee should be composed wholly of Parliament at a time when the food Members of this House. We crisis is still continuing. We have been clamouring for some time to been receiving distressing news fr ^ know the real facts. Government need many parts of the countr:^ Present^ only give us the assistance of a Secre we have received news from West tary and we shall collect our own data Bengal also that the food crisis is 1189 Resolution le. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food 1190 production mounting there. In Assam the food wheat or milo is not so respected. Like crisis is very acute. The .Committee Assam there are many parts of India which Dr. Das has proposed to be set where rice supplies have to. be made. up should not only find out the wrongs and mistakes committed by the State It seems the Food Ministry is satis Governments or the Government oJ fied mth the Food Agreement with India so far. but the Committee -must America alone and they have not tried recommend the measures by which the to obtain food from just across the food production in the country as a border. They are not trying to get whole may be increased. food from Burma though they entered into a contract. Out of the contract For instance, as regards Assam, it they made, as the hon. Minister some should not merely be the duty of the time back stated, of 9 million and 700 Committee to find out w^hat were the thousand tons of rice, they have im defects in the promotion of Grow ported only a very small quantity so More Food in Assam but it should be far. We should not look abroad for its duty to find out the causes why getting our food requirements when food is not grown much. Of course we can get them from just across our there have been natural calamities border. Why has it not been done? there. Last year there was the earth* Why have they not tried to obtain quake. Consequentlv there has been food from Pakistan? The food situa flooding to such an extent that the tion in Assam is so very acute. Re whole part of the country has been cently, a few weeks ago, the labour in turned into a huge lake of waters. the tea gardens of Assam resorted not Will it be the duty of the Committee only to strike but to rioting and as only to find out the defects of the saulted the management. They can Government of Assam and make sug not eat wheat. In the course of the gestions to that Government as re* Debate on the Presidential Address gards the measures to be taken to one hon. Member said that people in Grow More Food? It should be the ^?ertain parts of India do not know duty of this Committee, and the (Gov how to eat wheat and milo. But I ernment of India, to find out reme would like to know why no endeavour dial measures by means of which we is being made to get rice from Pakis can prevent flooding of the land, es tan as well as from other places like pecially in the State of Assam. Egypt. Burma. Thailand etc. And I would like to know w^hy the food from Burma which had been contracted for Assam is always subject to natural •s not forthcoming to feed our suffer calamities. Since last year most of ing population at ^ moment when the the standing crops have been damag people want it mo.st . ed in that State. During the recent floods 90 per cent, of the aus crop which was ready and rioe for har 10 A.M. vesting was damaged or destroyed by these floods. Most of the seedlings At the same time procurement is meant for the sali crops has been des not very satisfactory. Do you want troyed by the floods. Most of the to procure rice with the help of the military and the police? It is one of paddy grains in the areas which have thfe most damaging policies of our been affected by the floods have also Government to get food by means of been damaged. In many villages in military aid. Give them fair prices the interior of the valley of Assam and it will be coming forth voluntarily. wnich have been badly affected by the You pay Rs. 90 a maund for the rice floods, even the cattle which are such which is flown from Calcutta to Assam necessary implements for growing and you are supplying at the rate at more ^ food. ha\'e also been washed Rs. 5 to the tea garden labour. The away by the floods. It is the duty of management are supplying it at Rs. 5. the Government to enquire about all Is it reasonable that when you are pay these things in co-ordination with the ing at the rate of Rs. 90, and in paying expert committee appointed for flood the transport system and other organi protection, protection from erosion etc. sations, you should not give Rs. 50 to the peasants? In Assam in one sub In Assam now the food situation division there was a relaxation in the is very acute,, though the Government movement and price and we got one of India has been kind enough to pro lakh maunds of paddy coming from vide food for the next few months, the surplus pockets. It was only that is till the sali crop is raised. Assam due to • the relaxation of the wants 2 lakhs tons of foodgrains. But, movement and price that we got as you know, Assam is not a wheat- one lakh maunds. I do not know why eating area. It is a land where the such a policy is not adopted in Assam, people eat rice. There paddy is the where it is absolutely necessary. We ‘^ m b o l. -of the Goddess Lakshmi, but are only looking to foreign countries 1191 Res<^ution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food n m production [Shri J. K Hazarika] for help in food. You can give easily th6 order paper today. I believe, I am Rs. 45 per maund to the growers. only throwing out a suggestion for The plantation authorities are paying hon. Members here that as many reso Rs. 90 per maund. Do you think lutions as possible must be gone in this manner the Tea growing indus- through so that the opinions w the tiT can survive? I doubt very much views of the Government on particular whether it will survive for another resolutions may be elicited before the ten years, if it is to procure Rice at House. So far as the present resolu Rs. 90 per maund and keep the labour tion is concerned, the food situation by selling at Rs, 5. If this is the posi is not the subject matter. True, a tion of the labour position in Assam, number of steps have been taken and I ask where will-the labour over one they have been taken in the right and half million go? Will not they direction...... be unemployed? I ask what steps are Shri Sidhva: Self-sufficiency of food Government taking to solve this pro is one. blem? I say that in the matter of procurement as well as in the import Mr. Deputy-Speaker; We can detail of . food, there is something wrong. At the measures taken by different States the same time the Assam Government for increased food production and the is not helped very much in procure expenditure of the Union’s grants and ment. I know that once the Assam loans for that purpose and that food Government suggested that in order is not available. The question is how to get their procurement from the far the expenditure is adequate or villages the roads leading to them what steps do we propose 'to increase should also be improved but the Cen the expenditure. The- Committee tral Government did not agree to that should go into the question whether idea ...... the expenditure has been incurred pro- oerly or not. Let us hear the Minis-, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The primary ter, and see what he has to say in business of the Government is on the regard to this matter. question of increased production. The Dr. M. M. Das: May I say that my Resolution addressed itself to increas resolution assumed that proper utiliza ed production and not procurement. tion of the money has not b£en done Shri J. N. Hazarika; Increased pro and that we are unable to produce the duction is always necessary for in amount of food required in this coun creased supply of rice and ultimately try. food to the people. It is also the indis Shri Thinunala Rao rose— pensable duty of Government to sup ply food to States like Assam from the Shri A. C. Guha (West Bengal): I surplus provinces. I say, that in the have got a small amendment and matter of procurement as well as in kindly permit me to move it? H is: getting food the State Government of “with special reference "to the Assam is not responsible alone. The utilization of the fund given by Government of India also is at fault. the Central Government to dif My suggestion is that necessary steps ferent States as subsidies and pro should be taken at the present moment curement bonus.” to find out the remedies to improve the Grow More Food campaign. In Mr. Deputy-Speaker; My own feel many places we have seen that a lot ing with regard to this amendment of money is being squandered in the is that we cannot go on adjourning name of Grow More Food. I agree from day to day and we cannot expect that some measures have been taken to receive amendments to the resolu but they are not altogether success tions. The original amendments have ful. It should be dealt with in a already been moved and at this stage scientific manner and there should not all those Members who have already only be a parliamentary Committee, spoken, have no opportimity to speak but the work should be co-ordinated on the new amendments tabled today with a body of experts. Then only we and, therefore, this amendment will . can expect more food in the country. not be allowed. Mr. Deputy-Speaker; I will ask Mr. ShiJ Thirumala Rao; 1 have follow Tbirumala Rao to soeak. The only ed the discussion during the last day relief desired by this resolution is and today also with the attention that that a Committee should b6 appointed It deserves. But I am not convinced to look into the method of appropria that tihe Government should accept tion or the expenditure by the State this resolution because the purpose for Governments and subsidies granted by which the Committee Is intended the Central Government. Now there are be appointed will not be served by the a number of other resolutions also on mere appointment of the Committee...* i m Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food 11 prodiictson Sir. with regard to the measures An Hon. Member: Please come to taken by different Statfcs about in the Iront bench. The speech is* not creased food production, every State audible. is asked to shpw what is the quantity Shri J. R. Kapoor (Uttar Pradesh): of extra production that State is capa May I just point out that on a previous^ ble of producing by taking certain mea occasion, the Chairman, Shrimati Dur- sures and the measures that are gene- gaoai had given a ruling that nobody rallv taken are the minw irrigation fitiould come over to the front bench schemes like construction of wells, by giving up his own seat? tanks, channels, small dams and bunds ai)a contour bunding. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I would not say so. I understand that a separate These schemes I have mentioned on - seat which has not been allotted to • Shri Sidbva: Yel, the situation is ency by the Director of Agriculture, bad. Madras. You can go and see large numbers of cultivators growing these Shri Thirumala Rao; I will tell you green manure plants on the tank why it is bad. bunds and on the field bunds and I may tell you why the States are plough them back into the fields after grateful for JJiis programme of improv they grow to a height of three feet. ing the minor irrigation schemes, im Shri Kamath: In Andhra? proving the condition of the tanks and digging of wells, and also sinking of Shri Thirumala Rao; Especially in tube wells. Because, these are per Andhra, because this is useful in the manent works that have been achieved delta areas where there is plentiful on account of# the money spent so supply of water.. far. If you are not able to assess the results in a year or two, it Shri Chattopadhyay (West Bengal): is not the fault of the schemes them The hon. Minister has been giving in selves. After all, agriculture is a long stances from the South specially range programme whose results have Madras. Let him say something about to be judged not year by year or half the North as well. year by half year, but as it develops. An Hon. Member: About Bihar also, I have known of a scheme which brought 19,000 acres under cultivation Shri Thirumala Rao: I do not kno7/ under one Grow More Food pro whether Bihar is in the South or North. gramme. The scheme was completed. Bengal is also doing a good deal of But, So far only 10,000 acres have been work. Wherever I go, I call the cultivated by the ryots. Still 9.000 Director of Agriculture and the Grow acres are awaiting to be cultivated by More Food Commissioner. For ins the ryots. We cannot blame them. tance, I went to Bengal thrice and We can induce them to grow more; ♦spent three hours each time discussing we can organise rural credit and ad schemes with them. vance money for the purchase of bulls and find the extra money for invest * Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava (Pun ment in bringing fresh land under jab): May I put a question? Why is cultivation. All these mean delay. it that these 'things are processing; I do not concede for one moment that but self-sufficiency is regressing and the money spent on these schemes has it has now receded by four years? been ill-spent or badly spent; but it has been wisely spent and the results arfe Shri Thirumala Rao: As all these going to accrue if not today, tomorrow. things are progressing, production of children is also progressing. That is Shri Sidhva: WHen? the trouble. The population is in creasing every day. I shall deal with Shii Thirumala Rao: There are other that question now. short duration schemes, improving the seeds, supply of manure, organic Pandit Thakur Das Bhargava: May and inorganic. This work of compost I put a question? ^ making has been carried on on a large scale all over the country, and the Shri Sidhva: Let us see the results. manufacture of compost has been Shri R. Velayiidhan (Travancore- placed *on a scientific basis. Certain Cochin): One question...... State Governments like Bihar have passed a law that it is compulsory for Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. every major panchayat to convert all Minister does not give way. In the the village refuse into compost and end, he will answer all questions. give it to the ryots. I have seen a small Municipality like Hassan in the Shri R. Velayudhan: One question Mysore State with a population of about population. B,000, wh'ch has an income of 5 lakhs o f rupees and on compost alone, they Shri Thirumala Rao: You are not are making about two lakhs a year. I afflicted with that problem yet. was only giving an example of how Coming to distribution of manure, compost making has been organised on we have imported thousands of tons of a larcre scale throughout the country inorganic manure from, abroad and in all the States. We have also they have been supplied to the States at allotted some money for this purpose. very low prices. In order to make There are schemes.for the distribu these fertilisers popular, in certain tion of manures, oil cakes, and green States, a suosldy was also given. Now, manure .seeds. This programme of there is a great competition for this green manure seeds is being followed manure and no more subsidy is requir with meticulous and scientific persist ed. Ryots themselves have come to 1197 Resolution re. yneasures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased fdod 1198 jyroduction know the value of these fertilisers. examines the schemes with the officers But, there is also a catch in this, I . there, asks for th e. results so far may tell the House, A certain produced and then recommends to the quantity of these fertilisers which is Central Government for sanction of supplied to grow foodgrains like wheat the grant. This, again, will be and paddy is div^erted to sugarcane examined once more by the Finance and tobacco clandestinely. The atten Section of the Ministry of Food and tion of the State Governments has Agriculture and ultimately it has to be been drawn to the 1[act that some granted by the Finance Ministry. people who buy these fertilisers for There arc a series of checks and con paddy, sell them at higher rates in the trols exercised over the grants, whe black market to sugarcane growers ther the money that is granted is being and make money. These things are utilised properly for the purposes for being closely watched and being which the grants are intended. stopped. And with regard to the loans it is The U.P. Government has got a very the responsibility of the State Govern big scheme for .the supply of improved ments to repay them to the Centre seeds to almost all the cultivators in with interest, if any, in due instal the U.P. They have started farms ments. If the State Governments, in and from there they" give improved their turn have dispersed the money ■seeds to certain cultivators and in among the ryots, it is their responsi return they get a certain quantity of bility to recover this money from the improved seeds which is being distri ryots. It is not the responsibility of buted on a large scale in all the States. the Central Government. Protection against locusts, plant pro tection schemes, all these are making Then my friends will ask, with all good progress in all the States. I do this in progress, why is it that we do not think a committee of this House not get sufficient food? The whole will be able to get any more informa difficulty is in regard to the assessment tion or new information on these topics of the result of these schemes. New than what is available with the State areas are being brought under cultiva Governments and the Central Govern tion and more food is actually being ment. If any Member of the House produced but the results are being wants any information, that could be assessed according to an empirical got from the State Governments or standard or yard-stick devised by some the Central Government and any intelligent officers of the Food and suggestions based on that information Agricultural Department. are welcome froni the Members of this Shri Kamath: Intelligent officers or House. Even this Committee, which Ministers? is a roving commi??sion, goes about touring from place to place, they have Shri Thirumala Rao: I said intelli to take the assistance of the State gent officers of the.Mfciistry. Ministers Governments and they would not be are not intelligent, I agree with the able to get any more points than what hon. Member, because I cannot claim is already available with the Central better intelligence before him. and State Governments. , Well, about 1947 or so, they put it Shri Sidhva: Under the present down that if 1 ton of extra fertilizer scheme, when will the country be self- was put in, you would get 10 mds. or suflRcient? 5* mds. o f extra grain, and on that Shri Thimmala Rao: I shall answer basis they went on calculating the that question. First, let me dispose results. If you put in 1 so much of o f the two parts of the Resolution, and extra fertilizer, you would get so much then I will deal with the general of extra grain. But now we have one question in five minutes. • of the ablest statisticians in our section who has recently been lent to thd With regard to the expenditure of F.A.O. for a short while. He with the the Union Government on grants and assistanc!e of other able officers has loans, there are two parts. We give evolved a scheme of random sampling a certain sum of money by way of and thousands of fields are now being grants and a certain sum by way of examined according to this scheme dl loans. The grant part is on a 50:50 random sampling. They take one cent basis. The State Government must or two cents or four cents of land to* be able to spend on a particular item which fertilizers are supplied and also 50 per cent, of the expenditure if it is an adjacent area of land where it is to be entitled to the grant of the rest not supplied and then compare the of the 50 per cent. With regard to yields and estimate the production grants, the strictest scrutiny is being over other areas. By this method, we exercised. First, a high-powered officer are able to estimate the yields within from the Centre goes to the States, an error of 10 per cent. only. This sort 119® Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food 1200 im>ductt [Shri "Vhirumala Rao] accuracy. And we hope the results of random sampling is being carried on win enable us to give a more correct extensively in Madras and Bengal. assessment of the results. Under these Bengal has brought out a pamphlet on circumstances, Sir,' I do not think any it. They do it in Uttar Pradesh also useful purpose would be served by over thousands of fields. So we are having a committee of the House now, able to assess the actual production by especially at the fag end of the present this means. There are, whatever Parliament when a new Parliament mistakes might have been made, what would be coming m soon. It is no ever lacunae might have existed in use having a roving Commission com regard to the estimating of the actual posed qf some members of this production on account of the Grow House to go over the whole thing. More Food schemes, these are being After all, they too will have to go to eliminated now by means of this more the headquarters of the Governments scientific investigation that is being and get the data which these govern carried on extensively all over the ments now have. They cannot do country. random sampling in the fields them Shri Sidhva: When will it be com selves. Therefore I am sorry I am pleted? - unable to accept -the Resolution moved. But Government will take note of all Shri Thirumala Rao: I can give the that is said during the d i i i ^ i o n of hon. Member the pamphlet brought out this motion and will certainly" profit by by the Government of West 3engal the advice given by hon. Members. where they give the results of thous Therefore I have to oppose the Motion. ands of experiments. I would request the hon. Member not to press his Motion. Shri Sidhva: But I want to know when this sampling will be completed. Pandit M. B. Bhargava (A jm er): In Sliri Tfaimniala Rao. It is a perpetual the romantic and learned survey of the scheme and it goes on. It is a con hon. Minister covering the various tinuing programme. As more and States, I am very much disappointed to more food is being produced, they see that,.he has not mentioned a word have to collect certain data and then about the progress of the schemes in come to their conclusions. the centrally administered areas which are the direct responsibility of the Sbri Sarangdhar Das (Orissa): Is Centre. it a fact that Bengal Government wants Shri Thirumala Rao: In romance, more» food • now? there- is bound to be a certain amount of disappointment. Shri Thirumala Rao: They may require more food, because they have Dr. M. M. Das: I am grateful to about 13 lakhs of people come from this House and to the hon. Members Pakistan. Ther^ are these other who have taken such keen interest in factors also to be taken into considera the subject matter of my Resolution tion, in addition to the natural increase and who have taken part in the dis of the population. Our economy has cussion of this important question. been upset in so maiiy directions by That the subject matter of the Resolu these factors. Also there are now tion is not unimportant is proved by I>eople who demand rice who or whose the fact that to-day is the second day past generation did not eat rice, be of its discussion. Although the cause their tastes are changing. We scone of my Resolution was narrow* are telling the people that we must the hon. Members took this opportuni raise their standard of life and so ty to express their views bn the people who used to eat coarse grain present food problem in the country now want finer ones and it is the as a.w hole and they have included in -responsibility of Government to supply their discussion all the different aspects it to them in sufficient quantities to of fhis important problem. From the meet the tastes of the people, v^iews expressed by maijy hon. Well then, these amounts are being Members, some very important points spent and these schemes are in stand out prominently to which I progress. But to get their results takes shall make brief reference. some time. Even the Planning Com mission has written a paragraph to the Firstly, it is evident that the money effect that whatever had been done ear-marked for the development of hitherto, hereafter the assessment of agriculture in this country and given t ^ results has to be carried on on more as loans and grants to the different s(^^tific lines. The Indian Council of States has not been properly utilised. Aificj^tural Research—an important There is no doubt that there has been wing of the Government is carrying on some misuse of that money. My hon. the work with a greater degree of friend Shri Munavalli has spoken about 1201 Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food 1S02 production this money given to •individual culti vators. It should be the approach of vators beirlg misused and spent for a friend to a friend and not that of a other purposes. Then my friend Dr, master to a servant. Deshmukh mentioned the case of the Central Tractor Organisation and Another veteran cultivator from proved how this money was being Bihar Mr. Mohiuddin, who is also a wasted. My friend Shri Ram Subhag cultivator himself mentioned how men Singh from Bihar said that the money without any practical experience of given to the cultivator went into the agriculture are being appointed in the pockets of the landowners. State agriculture departments and how when they go to the farmers and culti The next point to which I refer, as vators in the countryside and suggest coming prominently during the discus something to them, they betray their sion is that in spite of the huge ex lack of agricultural knowledge, with penditure incurred by the Centre and the result that the cultivators refuse the different State Governments, we to implement their suggestions. This have not been able to enlist the is another important point which the sympathy or arouse the enthusiasm of State Governments should bear in the cultivators. mind in connection with the appoint ment of agricultural officers who are The third point is that the procure intended to go to the countryside to ment policy of the Government and propagate improved melhods of agri the very low control price of food- culture among cultivators. grains have damped the activities of the cultivators. My friepd Prof. Ranga, the valiant champion of the kisans, pointed out Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Is the hon. with what neglect and indifference Member making a second speech or the Government is treating the kisans^ only repl3ring? He demanded that the kisans of the country should get equal treatment Dr. M. M. Das: I am giving the like the proletariat and professional reply. Sir. And when doing so I am people in the towns at the hands o f" just mentioning the prominent points the Government. that had been already raised during the debate. My friend Mr. Rathnaswamy refer red to the utter disregard and neglect Fourthly, there being no parity bet by Government of the human element ween the price of the cash crops and in the countryside. the food crops, cash crops being more profitable to the cultivator than the These are matters of fundamental food crop, more and more areas are importance and should be kept in being diverted every year from food mind by the Government at the time crops to cash crops. of the formulation of their policies. Sir, none of these four points are new. They have been mentioned on Many of my friends in this House the floor of the House many times. have given notice of amendments to But the Government does not seem my resolution. It would have been a to take any notice of these important matter of great pleasure for me to points, in formulating their policy for accept at least some of these, so fjff the advancement of agriculture in this as they are consistent with the original country. In addition to these points, resolution. But the (jUspensation o f several other matters also have been my hon. friend the De^tity Minister raised by some of the hon. Members. has come and the Hotis^^knows that My hon. friend Mr. Samanta, who is a the fate of my resolii^^^ is sealed. veteran cultivator not only in his own With the assurance given by the province but even in Delhi, where his Minister I beg leave of the House to kitchen garden is one of the finest I withdraw my resolution. have ever seen... Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Has the hon. Shri Kamatli: Is it finer than the Member the leave of the House to> hon. Minister’s garden? . withdraw his resolution? Dr. M. M. Das: I have not had the Shri R. VelayBdhan: No, Sir. good fortune to look into the garden of the MinistfT. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Does the hon. Member insist upon his refusal? Shri Kamath: That is unfortunate. Shri Kamath: Under the rules of pro Dr. M, M. Das: Mr. Samanta said cedure even if a single Member -that there should be a psychological opposes the withdrawal of the motion change in the approach of the govern it should be put to the vote of the ment officials to the farmers and culti House. 1204 1203 Resolution re. measures 23 AUGUST 1951 for increased food production ' Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I am going to Shri S. C. Samanta (West Bengal): act up to the rule. I only wanted to 'I beg leave of the House to withdraw know whether the hon. Memt^r who my amenoment. said “ No” is sticking to it. Before the main resolution is put to the Ho\^e the The amendment was, by leave, amendments will have to be disposed withdrawn. o f one by one. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question Is: ^ ^ I 1 For the original resolution, substitute [Shri Bhatt (Bombay): I beg leave 4he following: of the House to withdraw my amend ments] “ This House is of opinion that a Committee including Members of Parliament be appointed to exa The amendments were, by leave, mine in detail the measures taken withdrawn. by different state Governments for increased food production.” Dr. Ram Subhag Singh (Bihar): I beg leave of the House to withdraw .The motion was negatived. my amendment. The amendment was, by leave, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question withdrawn. is: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Mr. Chandrika For the original resolution, substitute Ram is not in his seat. I s h ^ put the following: both his amendments to the House. The question is: “This House is of opinion that a Committee including Members of ParUament preferably from each (i) For the word “ten” substitute State and having some knowledge the word “five”. and experience of cultivation ^ aDDointed to examine in detail the (ii) Add the following at the end, measures taken by different State “and also to suggest ways and me^s Governments and to establish co bow to improve the situation regarding ' ordination among the Central these activities.” Government, the State Govem- -ments and the producers for The motions were negatived. increasing food pitxiuction.” The motion was negatived. Shri Munavalli (Bombay): I beg to withdraw my amendments. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question is: The amendments were, by leave, withdrawn. For the original resolution, substitute the following: Shri K. Vaidya (Hyderabad): I beg to withdraw my amendment. “ This House is of opinion that a Committee of at least twenty The amendment was, by l.^ave, members consisting mostly of withdrawn. Members of Parliament and those who possess expert knowledge on food and agriculture be appointed Shri S. N. Das (Bihar): I beg leave to examine in detail the various to withdraw my amendment. steps taken by the States to step up agricultural production and to The amendment was, by leave, establish a machinery to co withdrawn. ordinate these activities between the Centre and th^ States and also to explore the possibilities of Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question encouraging private agencies to is: tom this scheme of intensified jagricultural production.” Add the following at the end: The motion was negatived. “and the Committee be request 1306 * Resolution re. necessity 23 AUGOTT 1951 /or an All fndia Bar 1209^ ed to submit its report by the first wants to say that effect has been given* week of the next session with its to the substantive portion of the Reso suggestions.” lution. The Resolution is already there next in priority. There is- The motion was negatived. nothing more tc be done about it than, merely making a statement on either Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question side. is: Dr. Ambedkar: With regard to the Add the following at the end: other Resolution my position is the ‘'and also to collect statistics of same. I have practically taken steps to appoint a Committee and I was^ the actual position of cereals in going to tell my hon. friend that it various States” . would be a waste of time for the- House and for him to discuss that The motion was negatived. matter, if I am allowed to make a; statement. I think he need not make Mr. Depnty-Speaker: The question a statement at a ll;'h e may just say, s: “ I move” . Add the following at the end: Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes, Pandit M. B. Bhargava may formally move “ and also to examine the possi bility of creating a machinery to his Resolution. co-ordinate the activities of various Pandit M. B. Bhargava (Ajm er): I States in respect of production, beg to move: procurement and efficient distribu tion of food.” ‘‘This Houss is of opinion that an independent and autonomous The motion was negatived. Bar on an all India basis is Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The question necessary in the interest of the is: public and legal profession, and that Government should undertake “ This House is of opinion that a legislation on the subject at an Committee consisting of ten early date.” Members of Parliament be appoint ed to examine in detail the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Resolutions measures taken by different States moved: fcr increased food production and the expenditure by them of Uie “ This House is of opinion that an Union Grovemment’s grants Emd independent and autonomous Bar loans to them for that purpose.” on an 2lU India basis is necessary in the interest of the public and. The motion was negatived. legal profession, and that Govern ment should undertake legislation on the subject at an early date.” RESOLUTION RE NECESSITY FOR There is an amendment by Shri- AN ALL INDIA BAR S. N. Das. » Shri Syamnandan Sahaya (Bihar): Shri S. N. Das (Bihar): I would like May I make a submission, Sir? The to hear the statement of the hon. next Resolution stands in the name of Minister before I move niijf amendment,. Pandit M. B. Bhargava, but there is Sir. - another motion in m y name— ^I do not propose to take more than five minutes...... Mr, Deputy-Speaker: The hon. Minister will make a statement with Some Hon. Members: No. no. raspect both to the Resolution and the amendment. Therefore the amend Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: ...and I ment may be moved. think the hon. Minister also is not like ly to take more than five minutes. So Shri S, N. Das: I beg to move: we might take it first and dispose it of. For the original Resolution,. substitute the following* The M^lster «f Law (Dr. Ambed- kar): I can dispose of this motion in “ This House is of opinion that one minute which you cannot do. the time has now come when the Government of India should appoint a Committee to inquire Mr, Depnty-Speaker: It is for the into the working of laws pertain House to consider. The hon. Minister ing to legal profession, in force in_ 1«07 Kstolution le.. neestsitv 23 1951 for on AR India Bur 1MB £3 h ri^ N. Dss} different States, with a view to as in order to give effect to the purport certain the ne Dr. Yes. that is why I have biou^t forward this resolution, I would request the FaMH M. B. Bbargava: May I hon. Minister kindly to accept it, know whether the disciplinary juris- Then rule 42(c) says; RESOLUTION RE OPENING OF PROVIDENT FUND ACCOUNTS “Secretaries, Managers or other IN POST OFFICES responsible office-bearers of bene volent funds, i.e., funds formed by Shri Syamnandan Sahaya «(Bihar;: mutual subscription as an insur The resolution that stands in my ance against domestic misfortune, name is a very simple one. I beg to ma3^^ be allowed public accounts." m ove: Rule 44(b) says: “ This House is of opinion that “Managers of provident funds Government should allow charit authorised by Government in able institutions to open Provident connection with court of wards Fund Accounts for their employees and other institutions administer in Post Offices and that necessary ed or controlled by'(government amendments providing this facility are allowed to open simiigr should be made in the Postal accounts on behalf of non-pension- Savings Bank Account Rules.” able employees paid from the funds of the court of wards or At present the opening of a conjoint other institutions in accordance account or provident fund account with rules which may from time standing both in the name of the to time be sanctioned by provin employor and the employee is cial -Jovernments or Administra limited to certain sections as far tions.” as I have been able to study the Then Rule 44 (h) saj^s: rules and therefore public institutions and charitable institutions are some “Not more than one account times deprived of this facility and not may also be opened by a person only are they deprived but their or persons authorised by a servants do not get the benefit of pro private firm or company in the vident fund. It is desirable in name of the firm’s or company’s the present circumstances that we employees pro\ddent fund e^rtend this facility to these people and accounts for the purpose o f- 1211 Resolution re. opening of 23 AUGUST 1951^ Resolution re. altenng the 1212: ProvideiU Fund Accounts boundaries of West Bengal in Post Offices [Rajkumari Amrit Kaur] . Shii Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): I think it should come at the ezKl, just depositing provident fund balance as in the case of questions. of all its employees.” lii all these cases, only one account Mr. Deputy-Speaker: This case is is allowed to be opened in the name of governed by Rule 118(2), which says the authorised Manager of the parti that if ihe Member when called upon cular Organisation or Fund and the is absent any other Member authoris individual accounts are maintained ed by him in writing in this behalf by the Manager himself. I feel that may with -the permission of the^ this really gives all the facilities that Speaker move his resolution. It need are necessary. If the individual not be postiKwied and there is no accounts of employees were allowed to question of standing over till the end be_ opened on their own, it would as in the case of questions. mean a tremendous drain on postal Dr. Deshnmkh (Madhya Pradesh): I revenues. Therefore, I suggest that if do not object, because my hon. friend tho hon. Member has any specific is not likely to take long, but I would complaints or if he feels that the Post like to point out that the rule about Offices sometimes refuse without any questions is similar and it was merely justification, I shall certainly be glad as a result of practice I think that the to circularise and look into complaints, . hon. Speaker was calling the qufestion but I maintain that in view of the at the end. existing rules the resolution is really not necessary and I would ask him to Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There Is a withdraw it. difference. With respect to resolu tions, there is a ballot and a priority Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: I have is given. With respect to questions, heard witti attention and care the there is only the order of tabling and points made by the hon. Minister and nothing more. Yes, Shri Barman. particularly her reference to Section 42 of the Rules and also Section 44. Sectioi. 42 relates to public accounts and there the transactions have to be RESOLUTION RE ALTERING THE in the name of one person who may BOUNDARIES OF WF^T BENGAL operate that account. In the case of Shri Barman (West Bengal): I beg a provident fund account, the account to move the following resdlution that has to be conjointly operated, that is, stands in the name of Shri Basanta it has to be in the name of the em Kumar Das: ployer and the employee and therefore it is covered by the Section dealing “This House is of opinion that with conjoint accounts. In this con early steps should be taken to nection, the hon. Minister has referred alter the boimdaries of the State me to sub-clauses (d) and (h). What of *^st Bengal with a view to I submit to her is that there are diffi establishing contiguity between the culties created in the way of opening detached parts of the State.” of provident fund accounts of charit able institutions which are not in any ^Hon. Members of this House know way connected with Government and too well..... (Interruption.) therefore it is that I brought forward this resolution. But having had the Shri Kamath (Madhya Pradesh): assurance that she will kindly look May I point out that the Minister con irto the cases where this difficulty cerned is not present? There is has arisen and also that she will rem ^ neither the Home Minister nor the cly it bj' issuing a circular, I take it Foreign Minister, In fact, no Minis that her statement in this House will ter is present at all. undoubtedly guide her Department and they will know that such cases are Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He will be covered by these rules. In view of sent for this, 1 beg leave of the House to with draw my resolution. An Hon. Member: The Deputy Minister, Sliri Rai Bahadur, is here Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Has the hon. to take notes. Member leave to withdraw? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: The hon. the The resolution was, by leave, Deputy Minister will take notes and withdrawn. as.*:ist the Hume Minister when he comes. Depnty-Speaker: The next Dr. Destamnkh (Madhya Pradesh): ____ iition ctands in the name of Shri Has he been authorised to do it? Ba.^nta KiSnar Das, But I find that Shri Barman has been authorised to Mr. Deputy-STpeaker: Any Minister move it. can tjike entire (charge. 1213 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1214 Shri Kamatii: Can a Deputy Minis transported to Calcutta by air. li ter represent the Cabinet? might perhaps be said that the railways Shri Barman: Hon. Members of are an all-India administration. But this House know too well that partition its condition of that part of the rail-* affect cd TitfSt seriously the province of way is most deplorable. I do not West Bengal. Of course, other pro accuse the railway administration: nor vinces like the Punjab have been parti do I want to apportion blame. They tioned. After certain happenings, aie trying their best to improve it bif most calamitous in our history, for the by bit. But I do not know how many present Punjab has been divided in years it will take to set all these things- such a way that the province of East right. Had the province been a con Punjab is now a contiguous whole. tiguous whole the West Bengal Govem-- There is another province of India ment themselves would have imder- whose boundaries were affected by taken constructions of roads and simi-^ partition: that is the province of lar projects. Madam, but for th6 Assam. That has also been placed manifesto adopted by the present in a very disadvantageous position. party in power regarding the readjust But in this case also, she is now a ment of territories on a linguistic contiguous entity. basis, we might not have raised this subject at this moment. The eastern It is only the province of West part of the district of Pumea speaks Bengal that has been truncated in the same tongue as we do in North such a way, that the portion of the Bengal. Kishanganf population speak province which is on the north is abso the same tongue that we do in the lutely cut off from the south. This northern part. is a very delicate subject, because it raises many contentious issues. I do not wish to raise any contentious I do humbly submit that this is a points. But I would ask the Gk>vem- very delicate matter. There should ment of the day to consider dispas be no acrimony over it. • But when sionately the position of the northern the Government as well as the party part of West Bengal and after taking of the day, consider the cases of other all the circumstances into considera parts of India for readjustment on a tion see whether the claim of West lin ^ istic basis, the case of Bengal Bengal to have contiguity between should be given special consideration, the two truncated parts is just or not. because in our case the seoaration leads to considerable administrative [Shrimati Durgabai 171 the C h a ir ] hindrance also. If the justice of my -claim is con With these words, Sir, I commend ceded, the next question that arises is my Resolution for the acceptance of how long will this justice be delayed. the House. Sir, what is the position at present? For administrative purposes North Shaikh Mohiuddin (Bihar); I M ong- Bengal is one with the province of ,ly oppose this Resolution on the West Bengal, but there is no contiguity. around of the arguments offered by my All the lines of communication are cut hon. friend. off. The existing communication lines have gone over to Pakistan. This is Shri Kamath: Ma.v I ask why the neither the time nor the occasion to go Home Minister is t^ing a rather long into the question as to how this has time in coming? It is strange. Has been done by the Award. But just he been sent for? after partition we from the North Bengal pressed one claim on our Chairman: I understand he has friends from the State of Bihar, for ^^^n sent for. the sake of contiguity. What is the economic position of North Bengal? Shri Kamath: Is he at home? Prices of all the consumer goods are almost double of those obtaining in Mr. Chairman: Anyhow the Deputy the southern part. While the price Minister of Communications is in of rice is about Rs. 16 to 20 in other charge. parts of Bengal at no time in the year does it reach lower than Rs. 40 in the The Deputy Minister of CommuidGa' north—-not to speak of the prices tions (Shri Bahadur): I have taken ruling now. The chief reason for this down notes and shall pass them on ta is that we have no means of direct the Home Minister. Also, such replies transport. Sometimes we have to as I am capable of, I will give. transport rice from ' other parts of West Bengal by air. Similarly fruits Shri Kamath: That will be first, that are grown in the north are hand, but this will be second-hand. 259 PSD 1215 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1^16 Shaikh Mohiuddm: My hon. friend’s moderate language with which he has first point is that the eastern part of moved his Resolution. It is a very Pumea district consists of people who delicate subject. In the Constituent speak the same language as the people Assembly most of us were agitated of North Bengal. I strongly oppose over the issue of readjustment of this suggestion because the people of boundaries and therefore in article 3 Kishenganj and the eastern part of of the Constitution the Constituent Purnea speak a language which is Assembly has laid down what should quite different from the Bengali be the future policy about the adjust language. It is nothing but a deriva ment of boundaries. Whether the tive form of Hindi and, so to say, these present moment was opportune for my people have got their similarity to the friend Mr. B. K. Das or for Mr. Barman people of North and South Ptimea. to raise the issue, he has raised it on the floor of the House and it is for The second point is this. The the h|p. the Home Minister to state ‘manriSr, custom and behaviour— every the Government view-point. thing, including the culture— is alike that of the Hindustani-speaking But knowing the country as I do, I people an^ not alike that of the Bengali do not want any mock battle here over speaking people. Therefore the con the readjustment of boundaries. My tention of my hon. friend that the friend Professor Ranga is very anxious people of the eastern part of Pumea over the formation of his Province. alike the Bengali people is quite He could have got his Province but wrong. I would rather submit that there was a question of readjustment the portion of West Malda district of the boundaries of Madras town, comprising the two thanas, that is, and that is why he missed the bus— and Harischandrapur and Kharba, and I hope he will get the bus some day. the two thanas Itahar and Raiganj of {Interruption). I know Bihar has West Dinajpur district should be in stood in my way for the past twenty cluded in Bihar as the people of these years in the matter of communication. places are just alike the people of And I do not want to pour oil over Bihar in all respects. If that is done, troubled waters. But communication communication and transport will be is the primary duty of the Government greatly facilitated. They are com of India and it is not a matter that plaining about the bad communication rests on or is co-related to an adjust and transport. West Bengal has ment of boundaries. It is the primary nothing to do with these portions. The duty of the State to provide communi Inclusion of these parts in Bihar will cations. Suffering as I did for be greatly welcomed because it will twenty years—^after the creation of Orissa Province it was in three bits not only facilitate better transport and there was no direct communica and communication but from the ad tion— it is natural on eve;*ybody’s ministrative point of view also it will part to have the communication con be very desirable. trolled by the particular State, but 1 With these words, Madam, I strong attempted it twenty years ago and ly oppose the motion. failed. Now, the merging of the Orissa States have given me a Shri B. Das (Orissa): Madam... composite State in Orissa. Shri Kamath: Was the hon. Member's At present the West Bengal Govern name called? ment and the leaders of Bengal that Mr. Chairman: Yes, but the hon. are present here on the floor of the Member is not very alert. House can insist on the Government of India to give them adequate relief. But Shri Kamath: I did not hear you the question is whether the time is calling his name. That is why I opportune on the eve of our elec asked. tions—the election is cdming in January—^for us here to have a mock Mr. Chairman: I have called his battle on the floor of this House about name. the adjustment of boundaries, be it from Bihar or elsewhere. I wish to Shri Kamath: Mentally or orally? strongly protest against the statement Mt. ^airman: The name was of one Mr. Atulya Ghosh who was ^ phys^aUy called out, but the hon. President of the Bengal ProvmciU Member is somewhat absent-minded. Congress Committee. I am glad he has resigned and left the Congress. ^ ri ^msth: Very likely, Madam; I do not deny the possibility of that. Dr. S. P. Mookerjee (West, B e n g ^ ): No. no. He has only resigned his Shri B. Das: Madam, I congratulate membership of the All India Congress my hon. friend Mr. Barman on the Working Committee. 1217 Resolution re. altermg the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1218 Shri B. Das: I am giad he continues. to be merged to us but it was not As President of the Bengal Provincial accepted. Congress Committee he had no busi ness to demand that a particular Shri Venkataraman (Madras): portion of Orissa should be included Madam, I wish to raise a point of order. I think that this resolution is in West Bengal. He is not alive to out of order because under Article 3 the fact that our Congress (Government of the Constitution the State Assemb cannot carry out their responsibilities ly has to pass this by a two-thirds if Presidents of Provincial Congress majority in both the Hou^s and a Committees sound discordant notes in resolution has to be passed in this public places. There should not be Parliament. such expression of opinion. My Government, our Government...... The Minister of Home Affairs (Shri Shri Kamath; Not ‘my Government’. Bajagopalachari): I do not think that Only the President can say ‘My it is right for an hon. Member to raise Government’, a point of order while another hon. Member is in the middle of his speech. Mr. Chairman: Does the hon. Member need any prompting? Mr. Chairman: I was just saying that the point of order could have Shri Kamath: Not prompting but been jaised before this Resolution was clarification. . moved. Shri B. Das: My Government and Shri Sidhva: A point of order can your Government, our Government. It be raised at any time, is the Congress Government. We are all Congressmen. Madam, I appeal Shri Hussain Imam: The pomt is that to the leaders present here to leave this is not assuming that this should it to the Government of India, to our be done. A step should be taken. Government. Let them not raise any That does not mean that a decision h ^ controversial point which may jar our been taken over the head of fellowship and brotherhood in this constituent units but that the Centre House and outside, has to take the initiative to bring its Shri Hussain Imam (Bihar); I am conciliatory efiQorts to reconcile both rather in a difficult position While the parts. I was urging, Madam, I see the equity and justice of the that we had laid ^'^ims to ^^am demand of Bengal, I have the mis parts of Vindhya^#radesh which were fortune—or the good fortune—of not only contigi^^ but easily coming from the Province which accessible from?^r^rts of ^har. I would have to bear the brunt of this further plead that for a long time past adjustment. we have been feeling that parts ^ U.P, at least those districts which ^ The question before the Centre is not permanently setUed should be merged so restricted. While we, coming from ^th Bihar. If the Centre P^epar^ different States look at it from the to compensate Bihar adequately and point of view of how it affects our completely. 1 beUeve, Bihar would not own particular State, the Central raise any objection to give something Government and the party in power to the Province of Bengal who stand can have a wider outlook and see it in in so much need of readjustment oi its proper perspective. Let us their frontiers and examine the position of Bengal. It their shattered economy. I was a mighty province with a bie that it is in the best interests of ^ population and a long tradition of concerned that the Centre should be leader^ip and from that it has been have in a manner, not of a partisan... reduced to such a position that it does but of an arbitrator. not come in the first five provinces of India, as far as population is concern Mr Qiairman: I find that papers ed. Bombay has increased its popu and paper bits are faUing from the lation enormously. JEven Orissa the Press Gallery and I hope that the smallest State of the British days has Press representatives will take care to now become a big State, because of see that nothing is dropped on the the merger of the eastern States in heads of Members. the province. We on our side—1 mean in the Province of Bihar have Shri Hussain Imam: I was suggesting not benefited much, from the general that the function of the Centre is not pool of Indian States being merged to take sides. I want the Centre to with the existing provinces. We only behave in a manner which will give received two, which, after aU, came to satisfaction to all units, that their us with great difficulty. We had good interests are as well looked after as reasons for a part of Vindhya Pradesh those of others. We had a contro- 1219 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Beng^. 1220 fShri Hussain Imaiii] Mr. Chairman: I perfectly agree that a point of order may be raised at any stage. What I stated Was that versy about Andhra Desh. We had it could have been raised even before a " controversy about the Province of this Resolution was moved, because Maha Guzerat and Maha Maharashtra. that would have facilitated either the All these things are hanging fire. The moving or not moving of the resolution proposition that, “Has the Constitution but now it has been moved already provided a machinery for this,” does and speeches had been delivered... not arise. (Interruption). I was suggest ing that it will be in the interest and Shri Venkataraman: I am not press the contentment of the people of all ing. Provinces and States that the Centre . must behave in a more accommodat Mr. Chairman: I am just dealing^ ing manner rather than stand on with that also. - The point of order technical grounds such as that this raised by Mr. Venkataraman w^as that thing should originate here and that this Resolution is out of order because this is dependent on that and other it goes against Article 3 of the Consti parties. What is the good of having a tution of India but I do not think that Government in power throughout the view taken by Mr. Venkataraman India if it cannot bring about a policy is correct, because this Resolution only of contentment to all the people con suggests some course of action and that cerned? No one would be so unjust steps should be taken to bring about as not to feel sympathy with Bengal this. It does not straightaway deal in this demand for its adjustment of with either altering the boundaries or its frontiers. (Interruption). I am the adjustment of the boundaries for not concerned with individuals. What which a definite procedure is laid down we are concerned is with the well-being by Articles 3 and 4 of the Constitu and contentment of the people of India. tion. This Resolution simply .ctates You can only achieve it by rising above that steps should be taken to do that. petty objections and petty subterfuges. Therefore, I do not think that this If this thing is meant to be done, it Resolution is out of order. should be done. The only question is whether the Central Government is prepared to shoulder the burden and Dr. S. P. Mookerjee : Madam bring about a readjustment of what Chairman, the question which has had been done in the British days. been raised on this Resolution is an We all know that the British carved important one affecting the future out the provinces not on any historic welfare of not only West Bengal but foundations but to meet their exigen also of the whole of India. It raises cies of military situations. They questions of an All India importance conquered one country and then an as the last speaker rightly pointed out other place. We have net forgotten because similar demands for redistri the days when the whole of Bengal, bution of boundaries of the Indian Biheir and Orissa formed part of one States have been made from various province. It is only in 1911, forty parts of India. I would plead that years ego that we separated and we should consider this matter as Orissa had separated from us only dispassionately as possible and try to very recently, i.e., in 1935. So there come to some understanding which will can . be nothing sacrosanct about the be fair to all concerned and specially present boundaries. These actions suited to the circumstances of the were not taken with the consent of case. There is no doubt that West the people of India but by foreign Bengal today is probably the smallest rulers. Please do not forget this. province in the whole of India. Why They did it not to meet the require that has been so, it is not for me ments of the peoples of India but to discuss; the House is fully aware according to their own convenience. I of the circumstances. The sacrifice therefore, feel that it is time .Uiat the made by West Bengal was for the Central Government came out with a freedom and advancement of Ipdia, as definite conciliatory policy and gave a whole. The density of population contentment to all the people of India in West Bengal today is about 850 who are labouring for dfilerent pro- per square mile. That is the figure vinces. which has been given in the last jCensus report. It is not only the highest in the whole of India, but it is one of the highest in any part of Shri Sidhva: When my hon. friend, the world. What to do with this Mr. Venkataraman raised a point of problem? Obviously, if a demand is order, .1 stated that an hon. Member made that some portion of Bihar has a right to move a point of order should be given to West Bengal, there at any stage, but I did not get an is likely to be opposition from the answw from you... people belonging to that province. 1221 Resolution re, altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1222 As last speaker pointed out, this which will save West Bengal, which matter has to be decided by some is after all, a part of the Indian Union. third agency preferably on the mitiative of the Government of India. Shri T. Husain (Bihar) : Become part of Bihar; we will become one. First of all» is there a case for the Dr. S. P. Mookerjee My hon. friend readjustment of boundaries pf West has suggested, let West BSngal become Bengal? Let us not consider just now part ol Bihar or vice versa. which part from which adjoining State should be tagged on to West Shri T. Husain: Not at aU. Bengal. I do not want to attach complete importance to linguistic Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is one considerations. No doubt, that is one proposal which I would not brush aside consideration. But, if we are to completely. I am prepared to consider proceed to argue on that basis logi that. Let the question of the possi cally, then, perhaps, the demand will bility of a united province of Bihar- be irresistible that every Indian State Bengal-Assam... must include persons speaking one language and one alone. We certainly An Hon. Member : And Orissa. would like to think in terms of one Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: ...... and Orissa if United India. I cannot conceive of you like, be taken up; then the rest any State within this great country of India w^ill run away from us and of ours which will not include citizens we will become the biggest possible speaking different languages. So, an State in the whole of India. over-emphasis on linguistic consi derations might create conditions I was rather pained at the concluding which may’be worse than what were remarks of my hon. friend Mr. created on communal considerations Mohiuddin who brushed aside the in this country. Naturally, in a State, resolution in a rather thoughtless when people speaking different manner. My hon. friend Mr. Upendra- languages live, they are all citizens nath Barman raised the question of of one country, enjoying common making North Bengal and South rights, and each must have the feelina Bengal contiguous. On accoimt of the that he will have his rights properLv Radcliffe Award, as the House is aware, protected and advanced in accordance if one looks at the map of West Bengal, with the terms of the Constitution. the head and the lower part of the I am not suggesting that linguistic province have been cut into two and considerations are of no miportance the proposal of . the hon. Mover is that at all: let me not be misunderstood. some adjoining %rea from Bihar should An over-emphasis of this considera be attached to West Bengal so that tion alone will create difficulties contiguity may be maintained. The which may ultimately disrupt India answer which came from the hon. and w'hich may go against our highest Member from Bihar was, if there is no interests. I would therefore lay contiguity now, why not -tag North greater stress on administrative Bengal to Bihar and that would give ♦considerations, and also on geographi contiguity. That, of course, is no cal and strategic considerations. solution. That is not the spirit in which one would like to look at this matter. Today, you have other States which My specific proposal would be that this' have profited by reason of the merger whole matter should be investigated of what are called the old Indian by some independent tribunal which States. Almost every State has the Government of India should benefited by this re-arrangement. appoint. It is not a matter which you Administratively, some of these units can decide on the floor of the House. are so large that perhaps it may become The matter has to be gone into and difficult to control their affairs properly it should be done in a way which would and effectively. Here is one State secure the maximum possible agree within India, West Bengal, which today ment amongst the parties concerned. has lost nearly more than two-thirds of Its previous territory, and the The other day, the Prime Minister pressure of population on whose terri issued some statement on this v e ^ tory is continuously getting intenser question. It affected, I beUeve, the and intenser. How is this problem demand from the South and it also going to be solved? Here, I would make related a few weeks^ ago to the demand a special appeal to those Members of Parliament who have come from Bihar from my own provmce. He ^ i d that the basic principle on which to place themselves in the position cf Government of India would proceed those who come from West Bengal and was that there must be an agreemj^t like a brother to brother, I would ask -everyone of them to give me a solution between the parties on . question of policy , and 'J^^til that w m which will not make Bihar economi achieved, the Government of India was cally weaker and at the same time 1223 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1224 [Dr. S. P. Mookerjee] ostrichlike policy with regard to not not prepared to move in the matter. only this matter but also with regard With all respect, I would submit that to other matters of readjustment of the lhat is an entirely wrong approach to boundaries of the States within India. the problem. It is almost behaving Once you take a decision on the matter, like the old British Government in it is then that the people wiU settle India which wanted that the Hindus down. But if the Government of India itself which is the central authority and Muslims must agree before free remains undecided, and if agitation dom could come to India. How can it be expected that the representatives continues, it might proceed along wrong of Bihar or any other province would channels. I would, therefore, urge with come forward and say that some all the emphasis at my command that ortion of their territory should be on a matter like this, the Government p of India should announce its decision handed over to West Bengal? And who exactly will authoritatively to have the question thoroughly gone into by an independent tribunal, and agree on behalf of each State? That then to take effective steps for the is not feasible. That is not in accordr purpose of redressing a grievous wrong ance with human nature. Even if there and doing what is an obvious justice is such a general agreement, difficulties to West Bengal. would arise with regard to implemen tation. So, some third party must Prof. Ranga (Ma tribunal to suggest that half of a behaved in the same vacillati^ village should go to one Province and manner, in the indecisive manner in the other half to the other Province. which this Government has been But no such absurd thing would ever behaving during the last two and a hall be recommended by any tribunal. And or three years with regard to this there would be no need too. And it question of linguistic provinces, I am is in this direction that the linguistic sure linguistic provinces would have conception of the re-organisation of come into existence in this country and the provinces will come in handy. the reorganisation of our provinces There are no villages where it is would have been a fait accompli a long possible to say that the village belongs time back. It may be said by his to both the languages. It either distinguished successor the present belongs to one language or to the Home Minister, “ How is it then that other. Therefore it goes over to one the Sardar Sahib was not able to do Province or to the other. My hon. it? It watf because it was such a friend the Prime Minister yesterday complicated matter.” But maybe maintained that even though there is because he was too busy with the substantial degree of agreement, it reorganising of the States and the might not be possible for him to integration of the whole of India. What appoint a tribimal unless and until he has my hon. friend to claim to bis was assured that he could place credit after he has taken charge? Is before them a prior agreement as he not big enough? Is he not great between the parties concerned and all enough? Has he not sufficient states- that he could expect the tribunal to m an^ip and sufficient organising do was to implement that particular capacity in him to take up this parti agreement as regards the details. cular matter and settle it? After all Now, that, I say, is a wrong approach with regard to several of these to make with regard to this particular questions, so much spade work has matter. It is just because there is no already been done. Dr. S. P. Mookerjee agreement with regard to certain said that the legislatures have got to details— not details whether this town agree according to the new Constitu or taluka or village—that the tribunal tion. is brought into the picture. Even with Shri Rajagopalachari: May I know regard to the city of Madras there on what Resolution the hon. Member was not so much of dispute. The only point was whether the city of Madras is speaking? should be considered straightaway as Shri : Andhra Pro belonging to Tamilnad or whether it vince. should be considered a city in the residuary province that would be left Prof. Ranga: I am speaking about out after the Andhra province comes the readjustment of boundaries of to be carved out. On that point, it territories and incidentaOly Andhra would be open for the Tribunal to say province comes in, and just as the that Madras city may remain with Government of India is fighting shy of the residuary province, that its future the West Bengal problem, it is fighting could be settled later on. Or ...... shy of the other problem alsa I wanted to 4raw the attention of the House that Shri Kamath; Or considered a free in all these areas so much spade-work city. has already been done. Partmon con^ mittees were appointed and they made Prof. Ranga: Its status could be their reports. There were only very settled in one way or the other. It is few points of difference of opinion. open to the tribunal to say that it Therefore it is high time ttat the should be a free city, as was suggested Government of India made muwL by the boundary commission for It is no good trying to take shelter by Bombay. So the tribunal can say now trotting out this wonder solution of that the city may be left in the rtsi- theirs that there should be a duary province and the case examined common agreement. Now, on a later occasion and its future whom do they want this prwious settled by another tribunal. Our task common agreement? Is it only between would be fulfilled by saying that it the provincial congress committees of should not form part and parcel of the the provinces of West Bengal, Bihar Andhra Province. Even with regard to and also Orissa and even of Assam? that particular matter there was, I say, Do they want previous common agr^ agreement, and yet the Prime Minister ment between all the political parties was not prepared to take courage in that have come to function in these both hands, to take time by the forelock States? There might have been some and come to a decision. excuse two years back if they had said that the provincial C o n g r e s s comm itt^s Madam Chairman, the real trouble is with the Government of India. There should decide the matter. But now they was Sardar Patel and if he had not cannot trot out this excuse, for more 1227 Resolution re. alteHng the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries o/West Bengal 1228 [Prof. Ranga] * it that was why I got up to say some and more political parties are coming thing here. into existence and there will be many more before the elections are over, and I cannot understand w’hy Bihar is after the elections, you will have going to be made a scapegoat. The people representing different political condition of Bihar is already bad. parties. Then how are you going to After independence when the neigh work for a previous common agree bouring states of Bihar were merged ment? That will not be possible unless into India, those Eastern States were you make up your mind first to appoint not given to Bihar. The Government a tribunal and get its report and place of India did not play fair with Bihar. it before the legislatures of Bengal, They should have given the entire Orissa and Assam, and Bihar too. The Eastern States to Bihar. I see the same would be the case in the South Home Minister smiling at me. Even also. Once they make up their mind, certain parts of Vindhya Pradesh, which they can come to a decision. The were a part and parcel of Bihar, when matter can come up before the Parlia the State became merged with India, ment and it would be possible for the those parts should have come to Bihar. Home Minister, if he were to continue to be the Home Minister in the next Shri Rajagopalachari: I have got dispensation also, to implement a two pamphlets on the subject. definite decision and help the people to have their provinces reorganised, so Shri T. Husain: You may have the that India wiU have a better adminis . pamphlets and you may have the map trative set-up than she has been able but you have not given them to us. to have at present. Now my friend Dr. Mookerjee is claim ing that a portion of Bihar should be Mr. Chairman: This kind of agree given to Bengal. I will have no objec ment as a condition precedent - is tion with regard to those portions contemplated by the section itself. That which are exclusively Bengalee-speak would facilitate the legislatures to come ing areas, provided. those Eastern to a decision. States are given to Bihar. (Dr. S. P. M ookerjee: What about Gorakhpur?) Prof. Ranga: Previous agreement Dr. Mookerjee has reminded me about between whom? Gorakhpur. That is a portion of U.P. Mr. Chairman: Agreement of the which is permanently settled. There respective legislatures for the is the Banaras Division ...... boundaries of their respective provinces. Such a previous agreement was con An Hon. Member: You cannot get templated even by the section. it . Prof. Ranga: That is only with Shri T. Husain: That Dr. Mookerjee regard to the legislature and not says should go to Bihar. U P. is quite political parties. big but we in Bihar do not want any portion of any other State to come to Mr. Chairman: I thought tfiat is Bihar. We are satisfied as we are perhaps the view of the Home Minister. but if any part is taken away from us, those Eastern States which were a Shri T. Husain: I would not have part 'and parcel of Bihar and which risen today to make a speech, because were taken away from us should be I have been in bed for the last fortnight restored to us. and even now I am ,weak but the reason I have got up to speak was because I cannot understand why Bengal is I felt ashamed when I w^as told that an agitatinjg for those parts. At the time hon. Member from Bihar said some *of partition they knew very well that thing against Bihar. I mean no other they were going to have a small State person than Mr. Hussain Imam. As a and they were satisfied with that Bihari I felt ashamed, that a Bihari Even now .the income per capita of slrould speak against Bihar. I am an Bengal is greater than that of Bihar. Indian and he is an Indian. I am in Apart from that there is the Damodai India but his family is in Pakistan and Valley project which is situated in he is in India...... Bihar exclusively for the benefit ol Mr, Chairman: I do not think it is Bengal and for that they should be proper for one Member to say that he thankful to us, instead of asking foi is as’iamed of another Member. Such more areas from Bihar. expression should be avoided as far as possible. Shri A. 1C. Guha (West Bengal); This is a very delicate matter and Shri T. Hnsaio: I am sorry. If that personally I am not in favour of en is the observation of the Chair I will couraging the claims for linguistic not go against that. But because I felt provinces: At the same time I know 1229 Resolution re. altering the 2Z AVGJJST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1230 the problem is important and it is no tic attitude in this matter. I can use the Government taking up an understand that Government may not escapist attitude and avoiding the be in a position just now to take up issue.' The longer they delay, the the question of wholesale redistribution more difficult the problem will be of States, but as it has been envisag come and it will add to their other ed in our Constitution, and as the difficulties and troubles. Congress has been for so long propa * gating the idea of linguistic provinces, This resolution naturally reminds me some day a boundary commission will o f the first partition of Bengal and its have to be set up to look into this annulment. Some friend behind me question. And at tliat time I would reminds me that those days are gone. like that Government would not fail to Yes all past days are gone. Even the discharge their obligations toward- yesterday has gone to-day but there is Bengal. the sequence of events which no nation can avoid without paying heavily. My hon. friend who iust preceded me When the first partition was annull^ has told the House that while accepting in December 1911 it was said that it the partition, Bengal knew that it would was a provisional arrangement. 1 be a small State and that it accepted think I am quoting the words of the partition knowing that fact. But let King’s declaration and of the Secretary me remind the House of one fact: if of State, namely that it was a provi Bengal would have been obstructionist sional arrangement under which the and if Bengal would have taken an boundaries between Biliar and Bengal obstinate attitude and refused to be were then announced. Within a few divided, I think that gentleman would days after the annulment of the parti not have been here as the citizen of a tion by the end of December, 1911, the free, independent India. Bengal took Indian National Congress passed a re this vicarious suffering, accepted this solution requesting the Government for partition, knowing full well what it a redistribution of the boundary bet would mean to her and knowing full ween Bengal and Bihar. That resolu well, at the same time, that the whole tion was not moved by any Bengalee. of India would share her troubles and It was moved by no less a person than sufferings and would come to her help. Dr. Sapru and it was supported by an I do not like to remind the House eminent Bihari. Lala Parameshwari about the part that Bengal has played Lai. In the middle of January 1912 in the evolution of India’s freedom five eminent Bihari gentlemen issued movement or in the creation of modem a statement saying that certain terri India and the idea of India’s nation tories included in Bihar after the hood. annulment of partition were really Bengalee-speaking areas and should be Apart from that, Bengal contains the given back to Bengal. One of the great city of Calcutta, a City of about signatories was Dr. Sachidananda fifty lakh people. In this connection, I Sinha himself: others Were Lala am reminded of the position of Vienna Parmeshwar Lai, Deep Narayan Singh. after World War I when it w^as the Faqruddin,-^! am not quite sure about capital of only a small State, If it is the name of the other gentlem^. not possible for a small State like These five eminent men felt that in Bengal to sustain the big City of justice had been done to Bengal. We Calcutta, and if as a result Calcutta can find in the linguistic survey of goes down, it wdll be a loss not only Grierson that some of these territories for Bengal, it^i^l be a grievous loss to were really Bengali-speaking areas. the whole of ?%dia. Calcutta is not The census figures also wiU show that only a big industrial and commercial these territories were Bengali-speaking City, it is not OT^’y the biggest port in India, not oP4ly is it the biggest centre of our export trade, but it is also the gateway of India to the Eastern world. 12 Noon Politics have now shifted or are likely Even then, as I have said earlier, I to shift from the Atlantic side to the am not in favour of encouraging lingu Pacific side— if it has^ not shifted al istic states. I would not have raised ready it will not be long before the this claim in this House on behalf of centre of politics shifts from the Atlan Bengal. India must develop the idea tic to the Pacific, and then Calcutta of a unitary State and of one nation will play a much more important role hood: linguistic divisions should not than she is playing now. stand In the way of the development of that'one nationhood:—but sad experien Another problem which has been ces ha,ve taught us how languages have particularly mentioned in this Resolu made discriminating differences bet tion is the problem of connecting the ween citizen and citizen. Therefore. I two portions of West Bengal. We hope Government will take a realis have now practically no communica- 1231 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1232 [Shri A. C. Guha] tion between the two parts. While Shri Syanmandan Sahaya (Bihar); delimiting the constituencies and When I first read the resolution and making arrangements for the ensuing had the intimation that it had been elections, I think the Election Commis ballotted, I gave the matter very close sioner would have been able to say attention and ultimately came to the what difficulties he had to face because conclusion that my hon. friend Mr. Das of there being no contiguity between ^ad not chosen an opportune moment the two parts of West Bengal. Com for bringing up the matter. I also felt munication with Assam also is a great that he had probably not studied the problem which has to be considered in problem in all its details. I shall this connection. therefore try to throw on the subject such light as I am capable of doing. From all these points of view, from This question of a portion of Bihar the point of view of the wrong that has going to Bengal has been the subject of been done at the time of the annulment agitation for a long time and has foxmd of the first partition, from the point of some expression...... view of the exigencies of the present circumstances, I would beg of this Mr, Chairman: Before the hon. House and of the Government to pay Member proceeds, may I make it clear serious consideration to* this issue. It that hon. Members should keep to the is not only from the point of view of time-limit of fifteen minutes? language that I am making this claim. Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: It will be It is also from the point of view of difficult for me to do so.' I shall try, administrative necessity. Bengal is a but I have got several facts to place border State and has always been cHie before the House. of the problem provinces, perhaps the worst problem province, and I do not Mr. Chairman: So also other hon. think the present Home Minister of Members. We would like this resolu the Government of India will say that tion to be finished today and the hon. Bengal has ceased to cause anxiety. Minister has also made this position I can understand the motive of the clear. British Government in penalising Bengal in those days; I think every Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: As I said, Member of this House of the earlier this matter was agitated even when the generation would agree that the first Constituent Assembly was sitting and partition of Bengal was motivated from if I remember correctly, Dr. Syama no other purpose than for punishing Prasad Mookerjee (then the Minister Bengal for sponsoring the idea of Indian of Industry and Supplies) and Shri independence and Indian nationhood. K. C. Neogy (then the Minister of When the partition was annulled the Commerce) submitted a memorandum British Gk>vemment kept that purpose to the President of the Constituent in view so that the partition was annul Assembly, to which a reply was sent by led in such a way that in Bengal the the Government of Bihar and a note politically conscious Hindus could be was circulated and also submitted to kept in a minority. It was a political the hon. the President by the late Dr. purpose they wanted to serve by the Sachidananda Sinha. Thus, it will be seen that this question of fixing up the first partition and they wanted to serve boundaries between Bengal and Bihar a similar purpose in its annulmen^also. or of allocation of territory between Again, it is not without any purpose one province and another has been a that Calcutta was made practically the matter of very old controversy. The battleground for fighting Pakistan’s resolution as drafted did not therefore battle. It was Calcutta which faced indicate to me what really was the Direct Action activities of the intended and at what points in Bihar League and Bengal was particularly or in Assam or elsewhere... selected by the British Government to have a Muslim League Ministry by any Shri R. K. ChandhoH (Assam): means as also they tried in the Punjab, Why bring in Assam? He has never So, I would ask this House to take a mentioned Assam. dispassionate view of things. The motives which actuated the British Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: Assam Government should no longer operate. and Dihar sail in the same boat in this The House should also think of the matter, because a portion of West contribution ol Bengal to the develop Bengal borders on Assam. Anyhow^ ment ol Indian nationhood and tlie the position really envisaged by the struggle for Indian independence. mover is, I find, in relation to a portion With these few words. I appeal to the of Pumea going to West Bengal, if the Government and this House to consider boundaries were to be re-settled, to this question dispassionately and order to connect the portions of Norm from a longer and wider perspective. Bengal, namely, Darjeeling and Jalpai- 1233 Resolution re altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1234 guri etc. with other portions of West Shri Kamath: Particularly for rasa- Bengal. Of course, my hon. friend Dr. gooUas. Syama Prasad Mookerjee took the case to another plane—a much bigger and Shri Syamnaodan Sahaya; Whatever a more exhaustive and an all embracing aspect may be taken,—strategic, econo plane, if I may say so. I suppose he mic, or the laws that govern them, the still had fresh in his mind the memo present population, the constitution o£ ries of the memorandum that he had the population and a comparison of the submitted. When Prof. Ranga seemed things on an economic level—^it will be to subscribe to the views which bad found that Bihar will be hard put to been placed by Drr Mookerjee, I was if it is asked to cede a part of its terri reminded of the saying that “Adver tory merely because you want i [Shri Syamnandan Sahaya] •map. The entire area there is of Bihar Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: Now, Madam, as I said, there is a very old and if one part of Bengal gets con connection of these two. districts of nected to another part by a thin cor Darjeeling and Jalpaiguri with Bihar. ridor of 150 miles, it can well be If we look into the different census Imagined, as to which State will be in figures and the reports in the gazetteers, a better position to control it and it will be found that the population in safeguard it. the districts of Darjeeling and Jalpai After all it is only a question of com guri is pre-eminently and predomin munication from one part of a province antly Bihari an(f Hindi speaking. I do to another and this question of strategy not have much time. Otherwise I would rand defence of a province ought not, in have taken the House through the my opinion to be raised by a portion of figures. the Union in the present context of Mr. Chairman: Two minutes. things in India. That is the concern of the Centre. Can there be any objection Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: In two to Bengalees on this side passing minutes nothing can be done. I shall through the territory of Bihar to the rather not utilise them at all. other part of Bengal? I do not know how and why this feeling has mrisen in According to these figures it will be “the minds of some of my friends that quite clear thart so far as the popula unless one part of Bengal is connected tion or language is concerned, these with the other by portions of land be two districts are largely populated by longing to the jurisdiction of Bengal, Biharis and a section of Neoalese there will be difficulty. After all we bordering on that portion of Nepal are citizens of one Indian Union and which is contiguous to North Bihar. there should be no difficulty in my op Actually the District Gazetteer says inion in finding passage. ‘ that the population in the two dis tricts were emigrants from Muzzafar- Shri S!dhva; You give it up then. pur, Darbhanga and Champaran and that portion of Nepal which is a kind of a common boundary between N^rth Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: There is Bihar and Nepal. And the language no question, as I said, of giving or spoken is Hindi. These are not my iaking. What you want is a passage statements. If my friends want to in order to ?et to the other part of your verify them I can give the facts and province. To that exlent you have our figures. If I had the time I would T^ilwavs. vou have our roads and I give them now. think the Government of Bihar and the people of Bihar will welcome Dr. Shri A. C. Gnha: Would he also TVTookeriee and aH his followers and give the figures and facts about Man- band of workers to pass thrpugh the bhum and other districts? roads and raflwavs of Bihar to go to the other part of Bengal. In fact, we Mr. Chairman: These questions and shall give priority passage and priority answers will only help the hon. M’ nis- passes to cover that. ter to m ^e a carse for previous con sent. This ni’?»stion of communication, as Dr. , S. P. Mookerjee: For the ap " 1 said, will he dear from the fact that the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway pointment of a Commission. which is the main rail route between Shri R. K. ChUudhuri: If we are th'^se two districts starts from Kishan- discussing about the boundary of ganj. a subdivfsjonal headquarters of West Bengal, Madam, you must give the District of Purnea in Bihar. A an opportunity to Assam. ^ very fine metalled road— ^I refer to it because some friends have referred to ^ r f Syamnandan Sahaya: With re the question of communications—con gard to this distribution of areas on a nects Pimiea with Dprjeeling, while cultural basis and on a linguistic basis th [Shri Syamnandan Sahaya] the adversity of the refugees and so Shri M. P. Mishra (Bihar): What have la r as Bihar is concerned it has the Punjabis done? lagged behind. It has done Its best and will do its best in futui;e also. When Pandit Maitra: I am coming to Pun the question of resettlement corpes ud jab, Bengal and Punjab are the two I think Bihar will be very happy to provinces which, I believe most peo give any assistance it can to West Ben* ple would be prepared to agree, have get and to East Punjab. paid in blood and tears, more than anybody else, the price for this free Pandit Maitra (West Bengal): Wheu dom. Yet, if you look at the map of I came to the House today I had not Bengal,—I am sure very few Mem the faintest idea that we will have to bers in this hon. House ha^e care debate on a matter of such impor fully scrutinised the map of West tance, and that it would take the un Bengal as it is today after the Parti fortunate turn it has taken at the tion.:. hands of the speaker whc has just finished his speech, Shri Kamath: Question. Shri Syamnandan Sahaya: That has Pandit Maitra: You may question. been the tragedy of Bihar by their The answer would be, you may have association with Bengal. studied and you may be one of the very few. I never said nobody has Pandit Maitra: I do not know whe scrutinised. I have not studied the ther it is a tragedy or a comedy, future map of Madras. wiU show to us; not this House, I want my friends from Bihar to take Shri M. P. Mishra: Did you not note of this. support the Partition of Bengal? An Hon. Member: We are taking Pandit Maitra: It is no fault of note. * mine. After all, human beings have their natural weaknesses. In the first Pandit Maitra: I am not talking in instance, they take care of their own a manner that should rouse your pas things, their own province, and things sion, unless your minds are closed and related thereto. The partition took yoii refuse to listen to rea.-jn. place and we were faced with the peculiar phenomenon, a province, Shri B. K. P. Sinha (Bihar): The once one of the biggest provinces of facts are fixed; it is not a question cf India, by the devilish award of that our minds. gentleman Mr. Radclifle— I wish that name were forgotten soon—became Mr. Chairman: If the hon. Members suddenly reduced to a size of 28,000 talk to each other, there may nc»t be square miles, easily the smallest in a necessity for the hon. Minister to^re- area in the whole of In^Jia. And, piy. even then, it had been cut up Into three parts none of which had got Pandit Maitra: After all, what does connection with the other. this resolution stand for? The resolu tion is very limited in its content and Now, my hon. friend talked about application. All that this resolution Punjab. I know the sufferings of the seeks is that the Government of India Punjab. Everybody knows and ought should take early steps to alter the to sympathise with the suflTerings of boundaries of the State of West Bengal the Punjab. with a view to establishing contiguity between the detached parts of the Shri M. P. Mishra: Have, they not State. I shudder to think what turn settled all over India? Why can you the debate would have taken if the not do that? resolution was for incorporating into the territory of West Bengal Bengali Pandit Maitra: My friend cannot speaking areas and allied matters. I go on interrupting like this. He will want my friends to realise, and parti find that he fails in the end. cularly, I would appeal to my friends from Bihar to place themselves in the My hon. friends will see that in position in which the people of West Punjab there is no question of lack Bengal find themselves today. It is of contiguity between one part and no use showing tons of Up sympathy another. I respectfully ask, not chal as my hon. friend Mr. Syamnandan lenge, any hen. Member in this House Sahsfya has done just now saying “ send to point to any other province in refugees and we win show them hos India where within itself there is no pitality and we will treat them ts good contiguity and there is that kind of dogs”. We do not want that; that position in which West Bengal is plac is not the point. ed today. The hon. the Home Minis 1241 Resolution re, altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1242 ter will be replying to this debate. An Hon. Member: Yes, yes. (Interruvtion). Mr. Chairman; The hon. Member Pandit Maitra: But do not talk so is not giving way. gllb^. Do not try to trample over the feelings of a highly sentimental peo Pandit Maitra: The hon. the Home ple. They are down-trodden to-day. Minister knows the condition of T o^ay we come to you in a prayer things in West Bengal very v/ell. He ful mood. We come to you so that was the Governor of that ill-fated m the immediate .'ontext of things, province and he must be knowing this viial administrative problem of what going to Darjeeling meant dur West Bengal may be solved. I had ing that time. He must have seen oeen chairman of the Foodgrains In and known things for himself. He vestigation Committee and I and my will be the best judge to say whether colleagues know very well what send- the grievance that has been voiced in mg of food from one place to ano this simple Resolution is fancied of ther meant. We stand firm on the ques real, whether this is very vital to thfe tion of provincial autonomy, provincial very existence of the province of autonomy, provincial autonomy in the "Wer^t Bengal or not. face of inter-provincial barriers and restrictions- We do not yield to the Madam. I had to do some work in «.^ntre any ground when it is a ques connection with the Delimitation of tion of threatened infringement of Constituencies Committee. We were provincial autonomy. These are the faced with the peculiar problem of facts. TTiese fissiparous tendencies having to take the territory of Dar have been generated in us, thanks to jeeling, Jalpaiguri and Cooch-Behar tlie forces that prevailed before, and altogether and make a special re the forces that came later could not commendation to the hon. the Presi change the direction of things. Some dent of the Republic to have a three- aay we will have to take it up. But member constituency in respect of regarding this present question c f this area for the simple reason that administrative difficulties, I want the in between North Bengal and the dis hon. Home Minister to say straightaway tricts of Maid a and Dinajpore there what he is going to do. The point is, is a tongue of Pakistan territory and you cannot go on indefinitely shirk- electioneering would be impossible mg and burking this issue. Let us be for anybody if the normal principle frank about it Whenever there is a and procedure of delimitation had d«nand for a redistribution of the been followed in the case. provmces, you say it is not a good thmg to do now. If it is only a case The question before us now is not ^ e of change of a little boundary line very large question jf redistribution here or there—to give direct connec 01 Provinces. That large question tion ^ non-contiguous areas, you say will have to be tackled some day. the tii»e is not opportune for that. {Interruption). I have no quarrel with If the time is not opportune you have my friends of Bihar. It is u^ual for to give us at least an assurance that tnem to oppose this kind of a propo you will for this purpose, set up a sition. It is perhaps natural for them tribunal which, enjoys the confidence to feel in this way. But let me tell of the people of Bihar, Bengal and them that we also have a feeling in . the rest of India. I am not prepared this respect and this feeling must be to accept that it is a Bengal-Bihar respected and examined in the light problem. It is not so. I was su rpri» of facts as they obtain to-day. And ed when an hon. Member said that that can only be done by the Gov the Damodar Valley Project was en ernment of India, if it has a mind to tirely meant for Bengal. If that is the do it. My hon. friend Shri Syam- type of narrow out^>ok which you nandan Sahaya—he is not in his seat bring to bear on the problems of now, he has gone to receive congra India I do not know what the future tulations from his friends of his pre- of the country will be. vince on his magniflcient speech...... Madam, I do not want to take up Shri Syamnandan Sahaya; No, I more time of the House. I would have only come nearer to listen to make a final appeal to my friends. your speech. Let us not handle this question in a bellicose or cavalier fashion, not in Pandit Maitra: My friend said that a spirit of gaining victory over Ben the best solution would be for these gal or Bihar, nor over Dr. Mookerjee, two districts to go to Bihar! I have myself or Mr. Basanta Kumar Das. no quarrel. Take the whole of Ben That will be a very short-lived vic gal if you can do it to have a good tory. We have all fought together riddance. for the freedom of the country. We 1243 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1244 [Pandit Maitra] ' made no difference. Who is the man who will deny that at the hands of Mr. Ranga who is not here referred the British we have not suffered the to our departed leader and wished utmost harassment, humiliaftion and that he had been present to help his persecution? That wzs followed by successor in adopting a more definite greater humili'ation and worse tyranny and clear policy on this matter. under the heel of the Muslim League Not for that reason alone but for many Government. My province had to other reasons I join with him in the bear the brunt of the last war wish that our departed leader had been with Assam. On top of these came present with us still but we cannot the devastating famine which deci always have our wishes and we have mated a vast portion of our popula to get on with the best material that tion. Then came partition and in its we have. It was said that it was very train an onrush of problems including wrong for the Prime Minister and ior those of refugee rehabilitation which this Government to refer to an agree -baffled solution. When we come here ment being necessary before such an we are told “You see how many prob important issue could be tackled, and lems we have to face here.” But how Mr. Ranga took the easy line of refer many times greater and how much ring to the policy of the British Gov more baffling are the trials and diflO- ernment that was in possession before culties of the provincial government us and said ...... of West Bengal, which have arisen owing to the province being mangled, Dr. Deshmukh: Dr. Mookerjee said mutilated and tom? I would there that. fore expect my friend the Home Minister not to give a diplomatic Shri Rajagopalachari: Did he too> reply. In his position he ought to say that? Thank you, but that does be able to tell us that this question not matter. It is easy and so anyone will be looked into or investigated, in can take it up. an impartial manner, not with a view to defeating the purpose of this reso He said that the old British Gov lution or supporting some other point ernment had placed the problem of of view. After a proper examination difference and absence of agreement by an impartial tribunal the Govern between us and independence, and ment of India should place their deci therefore it is a wicked Machiavellian sion before the Parliament. At that defence and should not be resorted final hour I would appeal to every to by us. any longer. I hope friends province in India to apply its mind, will forgive me, Madam, when I say unbiased^ and unprejudiced to this that this is a very fallacious way o f question, for I refuse to believe that arguing. It is true the British Gov it is a question purely between Bengal ernment put forward many things, and Bihar. It is an all India question but all those things need not neces-' which should be solved on an all- sarily be wrong in principle because India basis. the British Government was wrong. Shri Brajeshwar Prasad Shri Rajairopalacfaari: The last Some Hon. Members: Yes, we would speaker very properly pointed out like to hear it. that the resolution that has been moved was based on a very definite and, if I may say so, narrow ground Shri Rajaffop^lAchari: To divide but the debate has been broadened people was an old principle of action beyond all recognition. for all statesmen, and advised in our 1245 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal J246 b est books also, but it does not mean prescribed in the Constitution. I that are doing it now. Please do knew the weaknesses in Mr. Venkata- not call one thing by the name of ano raman’s point of order and did not ther simply because there is some ex wish him. to proceed, but it was pro ternal resemblance. I need hardly ceeded w'ith in some way and it was say that men have a very strong re answered, namely, that the resolution semblance to monkeys, yet they are is a step towards taking action and very different from monkeys. Here what the Constitution bars is only the the Prmie Minister said, before you final action. It lays down certain raise an issue of this kind let us have provisos. Therefore it is argued, we broad agreement, not in every detail, are building up a case in order that he was so careful to say; he was more the constitutional provisions may be careful than 1 would have been on the lollowed later on. But I want to go ©ccasion. He was very careful to put into the principles of the constitutionai in all the reservations when he asked procedure. I do not want to do it in for some agreement, and yet . Mr. a legalistic way but let us see why tHe Ranga has taken the present occasion Constitution lays it down like that, it to widen the scope of the present Re lays down that there should be as solution and to attack that proposi much agreement as possible before we tion. ran proceed with a matter of thai Shrl Kamath: What about that Sutra kind. It is open to us to get round of SanKaracharya? We would like to any constitutional provision or any hear it. pomt of order. It is quite easy for us clever people to get round anything. Shri Rajagropalachari: Sankara- You can gist a resolution tabled whicn charya advised men not to pursue will cover the ground without calling that policy: it a Bill and you can get round the constitutional provision so to say. But see what has resulted. The very evil which the constitutional provision provided against has come into play before our eyes now—^Bihar, Bengal, That was his advice. He advised ivssam. Madras and every kind or people not to indulge in it because he difference of opinion has been ex said, “ Think of God, do not try to pressed and some of the spe^h^t^ follow these policies.” But Sankara- have risen to very high levels cJ eio- - charya had to face that policy. He ouence. While eloquence is good, it knew even in his time that there was is apt to excite sentiment and feeling this policy to follow. But it was only and in a matter of this kind and at a to please Mr. Kamath that I have juncture like the present it is not wasted the time of the House to this good to indulge in • it. It is better extent. sometimes to forget facts than that We should not mistake this for we should be continually remembering that. If thie leaders of our people them. There is a very valuable and today, if those who have taken the most precious inheritance in man s responsibility of the Government of mind—the capacity tc for^t. We the country today, ask you not tc think that the capacity to remember raise a very thorny issue at this mo is more valuable than the capacity to ment and ask you also to come with forget and we make mistakes. The ocme degree of agreement before you caoacity to forget is that wnich leads raise such a proposition so that the to*hapoiness: the capacity to remem thorns may not be too difficult to ber is that which leads to unhappi handle, js it. then the same as that ness. Let me once and for all out it policy of the British or of any of the in‘^ absolute terms. The man who Machiavellian statesmen of divide and forgets is a man to be envied; the man who remembers « not af man to rule? It is not that. It is an appeal to the people not to-make a crisis or be envied. (An Hon. Member: Not ^ problem more difficult than it need always.) be. You could proceed to remove Shri Kam.*>th: Does not the Gita those difTerences and face the Prime Minister rather than throw the pro say: position at him that he was only follow ing the policy of the British pieople. It is an external resemblance as the Shri Rajagopalachari: But there it monkey is to the man, but there is all is not mere memory; anyway, we need the difference in the world in spite of not go into it very much more a< that external resemblance. present. Let me be understood in the It was pointed out that the present ^ense in which I put it. It is better procedure was contrary to what is to forget some of the things rather 259 PSD , 1247 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 1248 [Shri Rajagopalachari] than continually remind ourselves bf the moment and not be swayed away them. Unfortunately, we have»>got in by what was said. (Interruption.) Let to a notion that these territorial divi me ask for patience. I may be wrong. sions of our States are something ana There is still plenty of time to think logous to property, which is wrong. about it and I have given you a free Let me venture to put it quite frankly charter. I myself may change, as I that although we shout high for the have said just now. Volition of zamindaris and for the 1 P.M. levelling down of property distinc tions and all that, our sense of pro So far as this language controversy perty is unfortunately still very strong goes, when two different. people speak and very alive. We seem tp imagine ing different languages come to a cer that these territorial divisions of our tain area by occupation, force, fraud States are so to say so much property or otherwise, then the division is very and we like to talk as if we lose some strictly maintained for a long time. thing or we gain something. What Even; that is broken down some times. really is the matter here? The mat The languages in India have not grown ter is one of communications; of faci in that way. Our languages, those lity of administration: of effectiveness which the people in the north of India of government and the like. Is it to speak, have grown from a common be mixed up with a question as to how stock and they have gradually changed much square foot of land Bengal has from area to are^, from village to to a man; how much population she village, from district to district and has to the square mile and how much certainly from State to State. Even Bihar has? We cannot solve Indian single language states do not speak a problems in that way now. Those who homogenous language, as is very often preceded us and who were unwilling imagined. But so long as the langu to give us our freedom used to thre age was seated in the tongues of peo aten and make eviJ prognostications ple and heard in the ears of people, as to how we would go to pieces once these changes were absolutely necessary the British left the country. Some ot and could not be escaped. For in them said that the 500 and odd Indian stance, one village pronounces the vowel States would go to pieces. We have *aw' in one way and the neighbouring falsified that prognostication. Some village in a different way. It went on others said that the Afghans will be like that and it became a different down upon us and there will not be dia'ect. You call them different langu a virgin left in Indian soil after the ages. To the ear of a Tamilian like British went away. That prognosti me all your languages are one and cation also has bee.o falsified. War indivisible. But among yourselves has not come down upon us because you call them different languages and the British went away and the want to divide the country, divide the Afghans are not our enemies at all as territorial area of the motherland by was prognosticated. But just now that single standard. It is very diffi there is another fear, another threat, cult. if I may call it, which is hanging in the horizon—I refer to linguistic divi- At page 73 of a memorandum pre Kion. We ma.y exaggerate the desire pared by the President who inaugurat to think ct each lan ^age as a sepa ed the Constituent Assembly the late rate entity. Let me at once say that I am not ignorant though fairly lamented Sachchidananda Sinha, he has dealt with the various dialects prer detached Hn this matter. I am living In the midst of a linguistic trouble vailing in the Purnea area of Bihar and I know a few languages. I am not and in the neighbouring area of West a single language man. I know quite Bengal and other areas. Mow they are a number of languages in my part all natural grown differences. They of the country. I know the degree are not different races coming toge and growth and the etymology and ther and fighting with one another. It tlie etiology of language divisions. is the same language developed by What is this that we are fighting about? word of mouth and by the sound of the ear through centuries, through thousands of years, not hundreds, and Shri Munavalli (Bombay): Why there they are. But that need not did the Congress divide provinces on confuse us into thinking that we are a linguistic basis? different people and that we mus*t have different politics for different Sbri Rajagopalacbarl: We cannot languages. Politics must be essential always be consistent. It is a hobgoblin ly based on present day affairs and of a certain class of people. Let us not on grammar and etymology. We be rational first and consistent after must base divisions of administratian wards. We have to live from moment on present-day Jrequirements of ad to moment and do the right thing at ministration and of life. 12^9 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal I25o I do not oppose the linguistic pro Manbhum” written from the posal, About fifteen years ago, I my Bihar point of view in 1948. I am not self sent up a recommendation to the referrmg to the arguments there. But Secretary of State who was then in •ook at the facts disclose.^ there. On^ charge of India that the Andhra Pro account of the feelings that were rous vince should be separated and that the ed. one paper in Calcutta wrote in sooner it was done the better. But I 1948: have seen enough now. This is made “ -the Biharis have organised too much of; particularly at the pre squads on the lines of Hitler’s sent juncture it should not be even storm troopers and Muslin; Nation referred to. Language borders are al Guards of prepartitioned India . -)ot so clear as people imagine. The Ihey are inciting the Santals in moment you draw a line in a map these area.^ where about 50,000 (>f befor? you with a'pencil in hand, that such Santals are said to be fully moment you create a problem for moDiiised for immediate action.” everyone of the children living on either side of the border. A number Another paper wrote: of them speak the language of the "Has that class which gladly other .side of the border and you have accepted the gallows to assert its to create new school masters, and new i.-ia.m become extinct? Why are schools for them. I have seen it where not all the sons of Bengal combin ver the line was drawn. I have seen ing to push on iheir cause? Under .t in a?tive operation in Orissa; I have the very eyes of the Bengalis, seen it in active operation between SeraikeUa and Kharsawah have Andhra and Tamil. Difficulties will been snatched away. StiU the continue to remain wherever you draw Bengalees are quiet. Why such a ^ the line. In the case of Bombay, can lull? To assert the claim of Ben * you draw a line where Gujerati ends gal. we must raise a great agita and where Marathi begins— it is im tion. Let the successors of Khudi possible. And you will have to pro Ram and Surya Sen rise up ...... ” vide for numerous thiugs. This is the sort of thing that will Dr. Deshmukh; Wherever you draw go on if we do not check ourselves. It is rhe line in Bombay it is all Marathi. a most dangerous thing. This is not Sbri Rajasropalacliari; Very probab the time when we should rsdse points ly! Let me turn to that proposition. which would naturally and instinctive Even in Matunga or Dadar. if I want ly lead people to this kind of thought. 10 open a school for Tamilian pupils It is not wise. We are today facing \t creates a problem there for the child- manj' problems, external as well as ven are mixed up there. It is diffi internal. Let us not raise propositions cult in modern times, when men have of this kind before tfee peo,.>le. Even to pay attention to their stomachs if we raise them let*^Us fix them not ^^pre than anything else, for any people m grounds which will mislead peo remain within particular languaj^e ple into wrong sentiments—mislead areas. You may draw language areas ing sentiments even if true. Let us^ for the Ministers and Parliament Mem as the hon. mover of the Resolution bers but the common folk have to did, place it on a very definite simple travel across to earn their bread and groimd. Here is a Province which is eke out their living. divided into two unconnected parts. Here is a southern part of West Bengal In fact I know very well the condi Province, and. here is Darjeeling in the tion of BenE;al. Bengal is in a very north, and in-between there is no con bad way in many ways, especially be nection. and let us have some connec cause the entire population there looks tion. That was the proposition. It is to Calcutta as itf Jiome. In fact I may not a corridor problem as was elo- say that the whole of Bengal migrate* ouently and graphically put. bringing into Calcutta, and the whole of Bihar before us all the pictures of the corri wants to migrate into Bengal! This dor problems of Grermany and of the real psychological oosition there, Poland. It is a totally different thing. and there are many problems we have They want an administrative improve *0 solve. But I do not wish to make ment in the matter ot communicati ins. *he same mistake as has been made It is really a question of communica by other speakers of making the pra- tions and of bringing about a state of Dosition wider intead of making it things whereby our general > defer^e more specific. We should not do position and our administrative ^ li- things so as to bring in this feeling tion may be improved. This is the too strongly into people’s minds. real ai^ legitimate aspect in which we In this connection may I read out should^nderstand this Resolution. from one of these booklets which T And from that point of view I must obtained in order to get some on behalf of Government be ready to facts over this Resolution? Hus tell the House that the Government booklet is called “Facts about will have to consider this, and 1251 Resolution re. altering the 23 AUGUST 1951 boundaries of West Bengal 125i' [Shri Rajagopalachari] must consider it very seriously and Mr. Chairman: Is any reply netres- do all that is in their power. L«t there sary? The hon. Member has the right be no mistake. It is not a Bengal to' say anything. . Nobody is saying problem. Nor is it a Darjeeling prob that. lem. It is an Indian problem. The Shri Barman: I wish to touch on one idea that Bihar is foreign territory or two points. and that Bengal has been divided into two parts without any connectiou Mr. Chairman: All right. If the whatsoyer between them is a little iHouse is willing to sit, I have no ob exaggerated. After all Bihar is our jection to allow the hon. Member to own and no passports are necessary have his right to say. for the Bengal people to go to Bihar, rhere is nn \ jpa necessary for people Shri Barman: I would like to touch from the other side to come into Ben on two things which have been stated gal. Trains are not examined for by my hon. friend, Mr. Sahaya. Biharis or for Bengalees when they move and the buses are not examined. Shri R. K, Chaiidhuri: I say that tiie The territory is ours and )t was on debate should be carried over to the this ground that the objection raised next day. by Bengal to the original idea of par tition was met that Bihar should not Shri Rajagopalaehari: The hon. be looked upon a« a foreign territory Member may take the time of the and therefore the communication was House, but it is quite unnecessary. intact. But it can be argued that the communication as not efficient. Air Mr. Chairman: I shall put it to the though there are highways, railways, Hr use whether we close the debate • rivers, bridges and ferries across, they now or not or whether the House is are not sufficiently efficient and I willing to sit for 5 minutes more. think that it is the duty of the Gov- Some Hon. Members: No, no. ernmerU of India to consider this very seriously and indeed, if necessary to Mr. Chairman: The hon. Member take over the responsibility of this may just finish and then we will close communication betv^een North and the discussion. What time does he South Bengal as one of its responsibi want to take? lities, instead of giving money and watching its .expenditure. In fact Shri R. K. Chandhuri: It may be Government will probably come to the possible for the mover to withdraw conculsion that this is an All-India this resolution. national affair and it must be taken in hand but if we move in ancjther direc Mr. Chairman: You want it to be tion and look upon Bihar as a stranger carried over to another day for the territory or Bengal as a stranger terri mover to make his reply? tory it would not be the right thing Shri Barman: I just wanted to say to do. The bon. Minister for Rehabi that I am advised by the hon. Home litation sat with me for a few minutes Minister not to reply to any of my and explained to me his own difficul friends and I abide by his advice. I ties. He said that this sort of talk shall only say that recently some dlffi- makes his work difficult. It is with coilties have been created by the Ad- great difficulty he said that he induced minie^tration of Bihar as regards the some of the Bengalee refugees and supoly of certain things to the north evacuees to be taken over to the Bihar ern part and that is why I mention srea and their feelings are always that this difficulty of communication atfected by th’s agitation. Both sides which has been made more compli Keep thinking about these things. Each cated by another province. Had there looks upon the other as a source of been contiguity this sort of position tuture danger. These things are bad. should not at all have arisen. Any We ought not to lift an administrative how, I do not like to mention all these problem to the level of a sentimental or an anti-language or an anti-natlona- matters here. After all these things we can settle among ourselves. I think lity problem. We will have t 9 treat my purpose was to inform the Gov it on its own merits as an admmistra- ernment and aft«r having done that, iive problem. I hpve done. I do not I ask leave of the House to withdraw think I need ask the House to stay Deyond ilie legitimate period but I mv motion, ' nope that the ^ hon. Member will not press this motion. Mr. Chairman: May I know if the hon. Member has the leave of the House to withdraw his motion? »iirl Barman: I would like to say Shri Hussain Imam: No. otie or two things... J2M Re»olutionre.aimngthe 23 AUGUST 1951 boundarieso/WettBenoal ISM put to s r v ^ f e ° a t t . ■ nUe. The*™^tioii Is:* the negatived. "This House is of o^ionthat The House then adjourned tiU Half onSaturday, ter the boundaries of tlie State of the 25th August, 1951. 2d9