Project: The Oral History/Memory Project

Interviewee: Clyde Duncan, Track Coach at Texas Southern University

Date Interviewed: April 24, 2008 Date Transcribed: April 25-30, 2008

Interviewer(s): Kathy Lincoln and Claudia Frazer

Interviewer: (… a new recorder, ok…) Um, this is Kathy Lincoln with Cowles Library at Drake University for the Drake Relays oral history project. And we’re here today on Thursday, April 24, 2008, in Des Moines, Iowa, to talk with Clyde Duncan about his favorite memories from the Drake Relays. And I’m going to start by asking you to tell us where you’re from and if you have an affiliation with Drake University, what that is.

Clyde: Well this is my home town, I’m from Des Moines. I was born and raised here, went to North High School and uh from 19 uh, 61 through 64. And uh, love being from here, love my home town, my friends and my school, and uh, Drake Relays stands, uh, right on top.

Interviewer: Good. Do you have a specific event that you really love about the Drake Relays?

Clyde: Well, uh I guess in a selfish way, mine was-would be the uh short sprints. Uh, so uh I was blessed to uh, in nineteen hundred and sixty-four, uh, run uh, I think at that time the fastest time in the world as far as someone that was in high school, a nine point three. And blessed to know that that record still stands, and probably still stands because they don’t run that race any more, yards, uh but that helps me. [yeah] But uh just being a part of the Drake Relays since my second grade, uh, and I, so I’ve been a part of the Drake Relays since my second grade, I think was age seven. So, I’ve either been a part of the Drake Relays as I ran or blessed to have brought teams back to the Drake uh-uh Relays. So, it’s a special uh, meaning for me and very special to be here and to be asked, to uh speak on behalf of uh, what it has done for me.

Interviewer: Now, I noticed in the reading of this article out of the Register that you owe a lot your success to your high school coaches, Jimmy Lyle and Ray Pugh. Now, Kathy and I both know Ray Pugh when he was an education instructor here at Drake …

Clyde: Uh, this is so very true … uh, Coach-Coach Lyle was my uh, my three-year coach and Coach Pugh was my-my football coach and probably more of a mentor to me. Uh, but Coach Lyle, first of all, my-my love always goes out to him and-and his family, and Coach Pugh – who I was blessed to see maybe two or so years a-ago, here … I was able to spend some time with him. So, it’s always a pleasure knowing that Doctor Coach Pugh now [laugher], is doing-doing well. So I’m just pleased too that they were - had a-a major impact on my life, along with my Mom and Dad … uh, but uh, outside of my home life, uh they were the ones who kept me in line, and especially Coach Pugh, for some things and very thankful for him… uh, when I think back on some things.

Interviewers: He’s a very special person.

He is.

Very special.

He’s just incredible to talk to. I never knew he coached football [laughs], until this moment.

I didn’t either, I didn’t either.

Clyde: Yes. But I do love Coach Pugh …

Interviewers: Yeah, he’s very lovable [laugher].

So, when you were here at the Relays, did you ever attend, uh, we know that you ran, but did you ever attend anything like the Beautiful Bulldog contest or the parades?

Clyde: Uh, the downtown parades, yes – but as far as the Drake uh, campus, I’ve really never toured that, and never, I don’t know why ‘cause my home was about five, may be five blocks from here, max. But um, I guess I was a very shy person and didn’t really do much, didn’t-didn’t uh hang a-well didn’t have a lot of people that I went out with. I didn’t go out much because of my speech, so I didn’t talk much. So, uh-uh but Drake is a very special school for me, uh, and to be honest, at one time, I wished I cou-could have been a, could have run here for Drake. But, because of some handicaps in school and things, it was not meant to be. But thank God that uh I went on and Texas Southern is where I received my BS and also my-my masters.

Interviewer: And that’s--both of those were in physical education?

Clyde: Yes. Yes.

Interviewer: That’s great. So how many years have you been at Texas?

Clyde: Well, I’ve been at Texas Southern for approximately thir-uh 13 years as a head track and field coach, but I’ve been coaching on this level since about 1969.

Interviewers: Geez.

This isn’t really much of a Relays memory, but I’m curious to ask you, what do you feel from your high school coaches, do you bring to being a coach now?

Clyde: Well, uh, first of all, I guess I’d have to say uh, that I always had the upmost respect for Coach Lyle and Coach Pugh. ‘Cause I-I was always one of the guys who would kind of stand back and just watch and uh, listen because I wasn’t—I may have been a leader, but in-in a different way, not in a vocal way—‘cause I used to stutter, I stutter now, but I used to stutter real bad. So uh, but Coach Pugh and Coach Lyle made me feel as if that-that-that was never a uh, so called part of my life. And uh, I used to watch them, and I used to wonder what it would be like if I could be a coach. And uh, it so happened that I am blessed to be and I really thank them, because I-I don’t think either of them--and Coach Pugh, who-who is still living—have any idea of the impact that they have on me. And uh, my--I remember my first job as a, uh, as a track and field coach, I-I really thank God for them--as well as my parents, you know, my parents are first. But uh, really did—‘cause they, Coach Pugh, especially—there are some things that--- I just thank him for.

Interviewer: He can be so loving and encouraging in ways that people would never expect.

Clyde: Right, true, true—but uh …

Interviewer: How did you happen to get interested in track?

Clyde: Well uh, from a large family, and uh, at that time the uh, everybody raised everyone—you know, everyone’s child. We used to uh, on-on our main street there, we used to race—and we used to race uh, different families … the Duncan’s, the Clark’s—I do recall the Clark’s. And I would always run last leg, and, but out of my older brothers I was always the smallest one, but for some reason I could out run them, and I didn’t know why. So, my neighborhood, which was Day Street—I think at that time, yes—uh, that’s how I really got uh started with my uh, running around the block and then some short uh, sprints, then. And uh, so my-my family really kind of brought me into this, uh I believe I had some brothers that would have been faster than me, but they chose not to uh- to stay in the sport. So, I’ve been active since uh, little boy, running some kind of-of a way and thank God that I went onto school and-and uh, track and field. Without track and field, I-I wouldn’t be here now. That I know. So, and I’m very uh, grate-very grateful for this, and uh, I-I don’t like keep—to bring up Coach Pugh a lot but--cause he really don’t know the impact that he gave me in my life. And I don’t think—maybe only he and I know. I don’t think my parents know. So, I thank him.

Interviewer: It’s real personal. Yeah, I can tell by the look on your face. Yeah. Well you know the Relays have seen so many Olympic athletes come, and-and you set a World Record in-in High School there, can you tell us about a memory, of a-a-a World class athlete or Olympic athlete, that-that you have--that can recall from the Relays--or you came in touch with or had…?

Clyde: Well, there are so many, so many at the Drake Relays, so many uh-uh young men and ladies that went on to be very successful and to be a part of the-the O- Olympic games. Uh, one of the young men on the-the uh, Internet—uh, Henry Carr ran here. And uh, James—

Interviewer: --In the picture with you …

Clyde: Yes, in the picture on the Internet—uh, my teammate, James Hines—uh in my freshman year, he and I came here in sophomore year, and he won in the sixty-uh, sixty eight uh-uh games and set a World’s Record in the men’s 100 meter at 9.95. And there were many others, but I was blessed to have been with him. Uh-uh, really, Drake Relays, I-I’m quite sure, the list that just stands out for so many, those two uh, kind of stand out for me. I think, Bob Hayes may have ran-run here [unclear background words]—and Bob Hayes was famous and uh-and uh won gold uh in the uh, games also. And if I can reflect back there quite a few— uh, Jim Ryan

Interviewers: Oh, yeah …

Geez …

Clyde: --from-from uh, Kansas uh, in uh, and I guess the list goes on and uh, as I-as I reflect, they-it s-slowly comes back. But I was just blessed to have been a part and among some of the greatest track and field uh, students that ran at the Drake Relays, that uh—you know, one it’s-it’s a true blessing to know that I was a part of that. I was not blessed to go on in-myself, to be in the games, in the, uh--but track and field has blessed me in so many other ways, that uh—I feel like it probably wasn’t meant for me. But uh,

Interviewer: And according to this article, you coached Carl Lewis? Clyde: Yes.

Interviewer: and Dan Johnson?

Clyde: Ben Johnson, yes.

Interviewer: Ben Johnson?

Clyde: Ben Johnson [ok]—B-E-N, yes. Uh, Carl Lewis, I uh, when I was a coach—I was assistant track coach at uh, U of H, where he signed the University of Houston-- his first two years as a sprinter there, I signed him and he-he only ran track for U of H for those two years, then he turned pro. And uh, I think he’s the one who really allowed me as a coach, for my career to just spring board because uh, after being with him, I received several offers at major universities, back then that had an excess of uh, forty-five to uh, fifty thousand students. Uh, but Carl Lewis uh, is one-of-a-kind and I would have to say he is at this point in time, the best track and field athlete that track and field has been blessed to see, and we still talk. So, uh, I am very blessed to have coached him in the sprints and—good, good man.

Interviewer: When you coach somebody, I mean, do you just have them repeat the same thing over and over again—at---do you offer advice, or what-what is it about coaching that—

Clyde: Well—

Interviewer: -- you’re really drawn to?

Clyde: Well, I think with me, it was just something that I didn’t really–it just happened. I don’t know-- in my life, things--I never really like set out to truly be a coach, uh, but as I grew and as I matured, it’s just something that I felt like it was a God- send thing for me. But there are several things that are involved with being a coach, and when you’re blessed to coach someone who sets World records and has won as many gold uh, medals as Carl Lewis has, you repeat your workouts— but it’s kind of how you do things, so uh--but it’s a lot more than—based on what you just said as being a coach, you have to be a mentor, you have to be a uh, Daddy, and in some cases, a Mommy. And uh, because everybody go through something and normally at that point and time, at that level in their life, their coach is probably the next thing next to them. And uh, so, hopefully those that I’ve been blessed to coach and still coaching, that I’ve been able to share some- some positive things in their lives and were there able to go past this sport and make something out of their lives in a positive way and help others.

Interviewers: Wow.

What do you think of the renovations to the new stadium?

Clyde: Well, I think its first class, I think, and it’s something that the Drake Relays has earned. The NCAA’s being here at this‐this year‐‐hopefully, we’ll be back and blessed to have four that have made the NCAA Regional standards, so hopefully I will be able to bring them back here. And I think it’s a blessing that we’re here, that they’ll be able to have a part on the track, be able to compete on the track where the NC’s will actually be held. And I just see greater, greater things at the Olympic Trials, and I just see that you know, this city and Drake Relays is a milestone and it’s known throughout the world. And uh, but it’s just a blessing—and uh, getting back to some of the other per‐persons you mentioned—Ben, Ben uh, Johnson [Johnson]‐‐his agent called me, and they asked me would I be his coach. And uh, so I had to leave my post—I don’t know why I did that, but I did [laughter]—and I coached him for two years, his personal coach. And some great things came out of it, but I had to leave Ben because uh, he wanted to kind of do some things that was not uh‐‐ it was not good, it was, so‐‐ I left him. But, uh life was good for about two years. But uh [laughs]‐‐

Interviewer: Well, and I have—did you ever see Michael Johnson, is‐‐he won‐‐wore the golden shoes, right?

Clyde: Yes [Yeah]‐‐Michael Johnson and I are friends, as I speak now. And I know him well‐‐ he’s –he had been very successful in this sport. He has done some wonderful things and he stands tall far as this sport and holds the World Record in the 200 meters, as well as the 400 meters—all this was done in the Olympics Game here uh, in At Atlanta, Georgia. But he’s a great man, doing some great things now, uh—still in the sport and is doing some wonderful things.

Interviewer: And I’m old enough to remember Dave Waddle—

Clyde: I know of Dave Waddle‐‐

Interviewer: And uh, Dick Fosbury—

Clyde: uh, especially him …

Interviewer: Oh, for the Fosbury Flop—[laughs]

Clyde: The‐the Fosbury Flop‐‐which was famous and he is‐ he was famous, still is known. Uh, the uh, both of them—the thing that really helps me as a coach, uh, when I was coaching Carl Lewis‐‐Coach Tom Delays, the Head Coach—I was forced to learn how to coach every event, and I must say that Coach Tom Delays is the man that helped me to be able to coach all sports‐‐all of the events‐‐the throws, the jumps, the vaults, and just the list went on, so uh—I‐I was just born at the right time, and uh, with the right Mommy and Daddy, and my brother and sisters, and uh‐‐ God just put me in a place uh—I was blessed‐blessed to be around people who cared for me and that did not take my uh, speech in a negative way. And uh, it’s amazing when I coach, I don’t uh, stutter. It’s tr—I guess I feel more—a lot more relaxed ‘cause it’s more of my nature—it’s what I do. But uh, so hopefully you ladies won’t laugh at me.

Interviewers: Absolutely not.

And when Mel Tillis sings, he doesn’t stutter either [laughter]. And I’ve‐I’ve watched him be interviewed though [yes, yes] —in person, [Oh, I see] I’ve watched him be interviewed and‐and once you start listening to him though, it’s like you forget— because you go past that and hear the content that being said.

Clyde: Yes, yes‐‐well, hope so the same here—

Interviewers: Oh yeah.

You came to your first Relays as a seven‐year‐old?

Clyde: Yes—

Interviewer: Do you remember anything—

Clyde: Well yes I do—I truly do. I remember being on the in‐‐the grass in field, and I remember we all had to rush out and they had the first leg, second leg. And each one of us ran approximately sixty yards and I would always run the fourth leg and I remember uh, we never lost—all‐all of my years that we ran, we never lost that race. So it was a blessing—and that’s how my track and field uh, career actually got—uh, that’s where it all actually begun, because it was an organized race. It wasn’t something on the street. [oh, yeah. Ok.] So, if you really look back on it, Drake Relays is where everything‐where everything begun. And uh, so, I am so very thankful for the Drake Re‐the Drake Relays.

Interviewer: It must have been exciting the first year that you brought a team here?

Clyde: Well, it was‐‐and it even brought tears. Uh, and at that time, we could walk down the‐ could walk down the‐the uh, tunnel and when you walked—when you got to a certain distance, before the track, you could go there‐there‐‐you could walk‐‐right before you got to the track, you could look up and everybody was there. And uh, that was a feeling that I will never forget. And I think my first year the team did well then, too. We’d been doing ok since then, but hopefully that will change—but uh, it was nothin’ like that‐‐

Interviewer: Do you remember the year that you—the first year you‐‐

Clyde: I think the first year that I brought my team here was—wow, that’s very good—I was with uh, with uh, Gramb [Grambling, I bet]‐Grambling, so had to be 1972.

Interviewer: Ok‐‐wow.

Clyde: Yes, and uh, so—but I always came back just to watch—but I‐‐that was the first team I‐I think I brought as‐as the head coach. Yes, so uh‐‐and I think we won that year too, they‐ they were pretty quick.

Interviewer: Good. If you could tell someone, who had never been to the Relays before, one thing that’s special about ‘em, what would you tell them?

Clyde: Uh, it was probably the most knowl—the crowd is probably the most uh, enlightening crowd that knows the sport. Uh, the most respectable crowd ‐‐they don’t stand, I‐I’ve never been to a major track meet where that has ever happened, and I’ve been in this business a long time‐‐the excitement of the uh, meet‐‐the voice, at one time, of the famous, uh [Jim Duncan] Mr. Jim Duncan, who ran the Drake Relays like it was a major horse race [laughter]—in a very positive way. Uh, you just don’t for‐uh‐get those times—and uh, always packed stands—uh, so much going on, in a positive way. Outside of the uh, uh track and field, uh it’s probably one of the only relays that the entire state basically, some what gets involved—especially here at home. Uh, you just don’t see things like‐like that and I’ve been blessed to travel everywhere‐‐all over the world—I’ve been to whatever—Olympic Games. Uh, but there is nothing like the Drake Relays when you really get down to it and when you break every aspect of the meet ‐‐what it takes‐‐the fan base, athletes, victory laps, the Drake flag—you know, it’s just a wonderful thing.

Interviewer: I bet its fun for your athletes to experience that too?

Clyde: Well, this is reason why a seventeen hour bus ride [laughter] which we’ve been takin’ the last few years‐‐[That took some gas] [laughter]—yes, uh, it I‐I guarantee you, to‐to me it is worth it and I pray that they see the uh, the value of seeing a true quality and organized , in a major big‐time track and field meet and uh something that I hope that they will cherish forever—as I have, even though this is my hometown, but uh, it is just something that I‐I’ve always wanted to bring a team as a head coach, or‐or not even a head coach that I would beg my head coach and say this is‐is where we should be. And so, it’s just uh, it’s a dream that is real and uh hopefully, they will see this way. People just—it’s just not simple to be a part of a major track meet like this. And uh‐‐

Interviewer: I didn’t realize that this was unusual in that people would stand up, when runners would go by‐‐they don’t do that normally at other track meets?

Clyde: Well, they stand up, but uh, at the Drake Relays, they know when to stand and they know when not to stand—

Interviewer: Ok.

Clyde: Where several meets that—some people just stand throughout the entire meet [laughter]‐‐where you have to–in order to‐to see the meet, you have to stand, so everybody’s standing‐‐and which creates‐creates some uh, a lot of times some hostile uh, problems. But they’re just blessed, they just know‐they know when to stand, they know how to clap. I mean, it’s just something as if they were trained, and uh, as far as the track (etiquette) or whatever it is, yes. And they‐they’re just—they’re just great— they’re just great fans—and I’m not just saying that, I‐I ‘cause I would tell‐tell‐would tell you the truth—may be not in all the truth‐in all the uh, truthful words, but Drake Relays they–they just know. They know this sport.

Interviewer: They’re the hard‐core track fans.

Clyde: Yes, hard‐core.

Interviewer: Yeah, they know their stuff. [laughter]

Clyde: Seriously‐‐[yeah] and they know it in a very‐in a very positive and a very friendly way, too.

Interviewers: You know, Kathy and I have worked here for years and we’ve looked out the window and have seen couples [oh, yes] walk by with their lawn chairs and blankets, and everything to go, you know, to the Drake Relays, and the weather, it could be‐‐well, you probably know that–it could be snowing, it could be raining—uh, but they’re‐they’re such passionate people.

Yeah, yeah.

Clyde: Well, this is something that uh, that uh, that Drake has brought about the‐the uh, atmosphere is not just‐just the track meet‐‐it’s just to be able to see all of the different type of uh, people and to hear them uh, speak and talk—as I myself, walk by—I mean it’s just great—they uh‐they uh, what they have—the most‐the positive words, uh as far as this meet and the people that have bought uh tickets, I mean it’s like a regular uh football game—where they buy, I‐I believe‐where‐ mean people seem like they have a season pass. It’s just that big‐‐just that big time here, so it’s just great—it’s just great, man—it’s‐it’s the best.

Interviewer: What do you think about them holding some of the events away, like the out at the Jordan Creek Mall?

Clyde: Well, you know I was watching news last night and I‐‐on the sports uh section, I saw that and I just want you to know that uh, uh that’s a wonderful thing—it‐it’s uh people have to brain storm and I think Drake is blessed to have all the right uh people in place. Uh that’s something that I know doesn’t happen anywhere else [Oh]. Uh, I do know this, not based on the and the Texas Relays and things—I just know for a fact, because I’ve been there and those are some of the top ones. But nothing tops Drake. I think it’s fantastic. It‐it brings a lot fanfare, a lot of people who uh, may not know that event—to‐to bring it to a major mall here in the uh‐uh city‐it speaks well for the‐for the Drake Relays to have an indoor—not just the pole vault, but downtown, an indoor [yeah] special h‐—you just don’t see—you just don’t—things like that just don’t happen. Uh, so minds—uh, you know like they say, it’s simple to say this—it’s – it’s a terrible thing to waste. But uh Drake, the people here, that make uh this happen, uh know what they’re doing and they brain storm—so, and I think that’s very important‐ ‐no one person runs the show –it takes a‐a group and uh they have a well, uh—a well re‐ refined group and they are doing well. And I’m proud of my hometown. I’m proud of what Drake Relays stands for. And uh, it’s an international track and field meet. It’s not just here. I mean, this Drake Relays is known through‐‐this I know for a fact—is known all over the world—and th‐this is good.

Interviewer: Good. Well, thank you so much.

Clyde: Yes, madam.

Interviewers: This was great.

You could be a cheerleader for Drake.

Oh, yeah—for track and field and the Relays and everything [laughs].

Clyde: Oh no. Sorry for uh‐‐sorry that uh—see when‐when she and I were talking, I don’t think she even knew I uh, I talked like this. But I don’t know why I just—but um‐‐

Interviewers: It doesn’t matter.

It doesn’t bother me. It doesn’t phase me.

It doesn’t matter at all.

Clyde: Well, I‐I thank both of you.

Interviewer: We’ll get you a copy of this, too.

Clyde: Please.

[total interview time = 30:49 minutes]