Tuesday Volume 547 26 June 2012 No. 20

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 26 June 2012

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House of Commons CITY OF LONDON (VARIOUS POWERS)BILL [LORDS] Motion made, That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the Tuesday 26 June 2012 City of London (Various Powers) Bill [Lords] be now considered.— (The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.)

The House met at half-past Two o’clock Hon. Members: Object. To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. PRAYERS TRANSPORT FOR LONDON BILL [LORDS] Motion made, [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the Transport for London Bill [Lords] be now considered. —(The BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) Hon. Members: Object. LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS] To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. Motion made, That the promoters of the London Local Authorities and Transport for London (No. 2) Bill [Lords], which was originally Oral Answers to Questions introduced in the House of Lords in Session 2007-08 on 22 January 2008, may have leave to proceed with the Bill in the current Session according to the provisions of Standing Order 188B (Revival of bills).—(The First Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) TREASURY

Hon. Members: Object. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked— To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. Excessive Card Surcharges CANTERBURY CITY COUNCIL BILL Motion made, 1. Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the When he expects to publish the consultation document Canterbury City Council Bill be now considered.—(The First on tackling excessive card surcharges. [113577] Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) 8. Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): When Hon. Members: Object. he expects to publish the consultation document on To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. tackling excessive card surcharges. [113584] The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark LEEDS CITY COUNCIL BILL Hoban): The Department for Business, Innovation and Motion made, Skills is taking forward work on excessive credit card That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the surcharges. I understand that the consultation to seek Leeds City Council Bill be now considered.—(The First Deputy views on how and when a ban might be applied is going Chairman of Ways and Means.) on in the summer.

Hon. Members: Object. Teresa Pearce: For many years, families in my To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. constituency have faced surcharges—sometimes 240 times the actual processing costs—when booking plane tickets. NOTTINGHAM CITY COUNCIL BILL There are now charges on theatre tickets and utility bills Motion made, and some funeral directors are applying them. Given the prevalence of this issue, does the Chancellor still That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the Nottingham City Council Bill be now considered.—(The First intend to ban excessive debit and credit card charges by Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) the end of the year?

Hon. Members: Object. Mr Hoban: The hon. Lady is absolutely right to To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. highlight the costs imposed by this on our constituents. Our estimate was that in 2010 nearly £500 million was spent by consumers on surcharges. It is still our intention READING BOROUGH COUNCIL BILL to ban them. Both consumers and businesses should be Motion made, clear that after many years of inaction by our predecessors, That so much of the Lords Message [21 May] as relates to the it is this Government’s intention to ban these excessive Reading Borough Council Bill be now considered.—(The First charges. Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means.) Mr Love: The super-complaint was upheld in December Hon. Members: Object. last year. The Government have not even started the To be considered on Tuesday 3 July. consultation that would be necessary to introduce this 141 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 142 measure. Meanwhile, £8 million a month has been lost Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): Now that the just by those suffering surcharges on flights from this Bank of England has finally shown more willingness to country. When are we going to get some action? provide some liquidity support, there should be no obstacle to the exercising of more flexibility by the Mr Hoban: As I said, we are going to publish a Financial Services Authority when it comes to how the consultation this summer and take action to ban these liquidity buffers are used. That is being desperately surcharges as soon as possible after that. We should be demanded by banks. Does my right hon. Friend agree very clear not only that we are going to ban them, but that the FSA should take action as soon as possible, that some firms have already responded to the action we and that such action is what is required to provide are going to take, with a number of them reducing their borrowing and lending at reasonable rates for the hundreds charges on credit and debit card use. That shows that and thousands of businesses throughout the country even without legislative action, consumers are getting a that need it so desperately? better deal as a consequence of our policy. Mr Osborne: The liquidity auction undertaken by the Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): Bank of England last week was very welcome, and the This is a matter of very serious concern to our constituents. Bank is proposing future auctions. My hon. Friend, May I welcome the Minister’s commitment to tackling who chairs the Treasury Committee, has been prescient the payment surcharges and urge him to do whatever he in pointing to some of the procyclical nature—if can as soon as possible? unintended—of some of the liquidity regulation in the United Kingdom in recent years. The Financial Policy Mr Hoban: I am grateful for my hon. Friend’s welcome. Committee was set up to look at risks on both the I am working closely with the Under-Secretary of State downside and the upside. The Financial Services Authority for Business, Innovation and Skills, my hon. Friend the must make its own independent decisions, but I am sure Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb), who is that it will have paid close attention to my speech and to responsible for consumer affairs, to ensure that we act the speech of the Governor of the Bank of England at as quickly as possible to ban these surcharges and to the Mansion House. deliver a better deal to consumers. Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): Quantitative Easing Notwithstanding the Chancellor’s warm words about the impact of quantitative easing, I have yet to meet a banker, a businessman or indeed a Government 2. Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab): representative who can identify the benefits that have What estimate he has made of the proportion of the accrued as a result of its introduction. While I do not money issued through quantitative easing which has necessarily oppose it, all the evidence that I am being been used by banks to pay off their debts. [113578] given by bankers suggests that lack of demand is causing the main problem. Will the Chancellor do something to The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): stimulate consumer demand and investment confidence Quantitative easing is a tool of the independent Monetary in order to maximise the potential that quantitative Policy Committee and has been designed to work through easing might bring? channels other than the impaired banking system by stimulating activity in capital markets. The Government Mr Osborne: In conducting its most recent assessment and the Bank of England are working together on a of the UK economy, the IMF explicitly looked at new funding for lending scheme that will more broadly unconventional monetary policy tools that are currently support sustained and increased bank lending to the being used, and concluded that quantitative easing was economy. I can confirm for the first time that in the having a positive impact. I think that we should welcome three months since the start of the national loan guarantee that. I believe that we are able to pursue loose monetary scheme, over 10,000 cheaper loans worth over £1.5 billion policy—that we are able to use all the tools that are have been offered to businesses. I can also confirm that available to us on the monetary policy side—precisely we have today secured EU state aid approval to extend because we have international credibility on the fiscal the scheme to medium-sized businesses with a turnover side. of up to £250 million. That means 99.9% of UK businesses can now benefit. 21. [113599] Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con): I, too, warmly welcome the action of the Bank of Natascha Engel: Quantitative easing was certainly England last week to increase liquidity in its liquidity intended to stimulate the economy, but in reality it is auction, but should not the role of the Financial Policy being used to write off the debts of reckless banks with Committee be not only to stand against procyclical hundreds of billions of pounds’ worth of virtual money. financial policy and liquidity buffers, but to lean Has anyone in Government thought through the against the wind and make sure that we can get the consequences of this policy, and if so, what are they? lending to businesses in our constituencies?

Mr Osborne: The Bank of England conducted a Mr Osborne: The Government established the Financial study of the first round of QE that it undertook under Policy Committee because under the previous tripartite the last Government, and estimated that it had increased regime, designed and implemented by the shadow real GDP by between 1.5% and 2%. The Bank’s chief Chancellor, absolutely no one was paying attention to economist says that the asset programme regime overall levels of debt and credit in the economy. That is “was explicitly designed to go around the banking system”. why we had such a deep recession, and why we went I therefore do not accept the hon. Lady’s characterisation. from such a large boom to such a big bust—to coin a 143 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 144 phrase. My hon. Friend is entirely right: the FPC should economy are operating. That is precisely the flexibility be symmetrical in the way in which it looks at risks. We in our plan, which is tough on the structural deficit but have made that clear, and we are amending the Financial supportive of the economy. Services Bill in the House of Lords to ensure that that the FPC has, as a secondary objective, due regard for George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Has my right the Government’s broader economic policy. hon. Friend seen the latest Office for National Statistics figures, which show that unemployment is down 50,000 Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) in the last quarter and over 800,000 new jobs have been (PC): Yesterday the Financial Times reported that the created since we took office? Does he agree that this Bank for International Settlements was warning of the suggests that the Government’s programme of deficit dangers for economies that get hooked on ultra-low credibility, public sector restraint and support for business interest rates. Is not the reality that monetary policy is laying the foundations for a sustainable recovery? alone will not kick-start the sustained recovery, and that fiscal intervention will be needed if we are to avoid Danny Alexander: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for a lost decade? that question. He is, of course, right to say that the recent figures show that unemployment has been falling, Mr Osborne: The very low interest and mortgage and that is good news, of course. Inflation is also rates in Britain are extremely welcome to families and coming down, which is good news for hard-pressed businesses across the country. If we want to know what consumers. the alternative looks like, we just have to look across the Rachel Reeves (Leeds West) (Lab): Does the Chief channel at countries that have not been able to maintain Secretary think the fact that the economy is in recession their credibility in international markets, where we see explains why today’s figures show that borrowing is rising bank lending and funding costs and increased going up, not down as the Government intended? costs for Government borrowing. We have now five countries in the eurozone who have had to apply for Danny Alexander: As I said to the right hon. Member bail-outs. It is because we have fiscal credibility despite for East Ham (Stephen Timms), the figures reflect a inheriting the largest budget deficit in the European combination of things, including the fact that departmental Union that we have been able to keep our interest rates spending has been held down by more than was forecast, very low. but the automatic stabilisers in the economy are operating. That is the flexibility in our plan. It is because of the Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): I, too, welcome the fiscal credibility the Government have brought to this announcement of extra liquidity for our banks, but how country that we can do that. will the Chancellor ensure that our international banks lend this money to British businesses? Rachel Reeves: I do not think the Chief Secretary answered the question. Figures out this morning show Mr Osborne: The funding for lending scheme, which that, with the economy in recession, tax receipts are the Governor and I announced at the Mansion House, falling, and the benefits bill is going up, so borrowing is is explicitly designed to address the high bank funding already £4 billion higher this year than last. Is it not costs and it is tied to lending into the UK economy, so time that the Government admitted their plan has failed, that is precisely what this new scheme is designed to do. and without action on jobs and growth, borrowing does not go down, it just goes up? Economic Growth Danny Alexander: That is an astonishing question from the party that made the mess in the British economy 3. Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): What recent that we are trying to clear up, and the party whose plans estimate he has made of the level of economic growth wanted this Government to borrow even more. That in 2012. [113579] just goes to show what would have happened to the UK economy if we had been unfortunate enough to have The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): the Labour party stay in power. The Office for Budget Responsibility is responsible for producing independent economic and fiscal forecasts. Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con): Does my right In its March economic and fiscal outlook, the OBR hon. Friend agree that protectionism is the enemy of forecasted economic growth of 0.8% in 2012, but more economic growth? What steps will he take to re-energise recent independent forecasts have been lower, reflecting the Doha round? the fact that the euro-area crisis remains the biggest risk to the UK recovery. Danny Alexander: I wholeheartedly agree with my right hon. Friend. It is a very important point that, in Stephen Timms: A worryingly large jump in Government times of economic stress worldwide, some countries borrowing has been reported today. Why is it that of all may seek a protectionist approach. That is why at the the G20 countries, only Britain and Italy are in recession? forthcoming European summit the Prime Minister will again be arguing for measures within Europe to strengthen Danny Alexander: The right hon. Gentleman refers to the single market and to increase free trade within the borrowing, but his Front-Bench team wants us to borrow EU, and for measures for the EU to take to build on the tens of billions of pounds more, which is not the right free trade agreements that, collectively, we are signing response. If he studies the figures carefully, he will see with a number of other important economies in the that departmental spending is rising much less than was world. We need to keep up the momentum of that forecast, but, of course, the automatic stabilisers in the process in order to help support the world economy. 145 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 146

Regional Pay The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): Rising global prices have increased the cost of living for 4. Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): What families here in Britain. This coalition Government will progress he has made on his consultation on regional do everything we can to help. We have already frozen pay for public sector workers; and if he will make a council tax, kept mortgage bills low and abolished the fuel duty escalator. I can tell people that we will now statement. [113580] stop any rise in fuel duty this August and freeze it for the rest of the year. This means that fuel duty will be The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe 10p a litre lower than planned by the last Labour Smith): The independent pay review bodies are considering Government. We are on the side of working families how public sector pay can be made more responsive to and businesses, and this will fuel our recovery at this local labour markets, and will report from July. Nothing very difficult economic time for the world. The one-off has been decided, and no changes will be made unless cost of this change will be fully paid for by the larger there is strong supporting evidence and a rational case than forecast savings in departmental budgets, and we for proceeding. will set out details of those, as usual, in the autumn statement. Jessica Morden: The Tory finance spokesperson in the Welsh Assembly said that introducing regional pay Sarah Newton: If I were not on crutches I would be could disadvantage thousands of public sector workers, jumping for joy. The people of Cornwall will really and that welcome this move, which proves once more that this “we are making it absolutely clear that we are against” Government are on the side of hard-working families. it. Does the Minister agree? Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is absolutely right and I know this news will be welcome in Cornwall, as across Miss Smith: As I have just set out, this is a question at the country. I repeat: because of the actions we have present for the independent pay review bodies, which taken today and in recent Budgets, petrol duty is 10p a will report back in July. There is an argument that more litre lower than it would have been under the Budget local, market-facing pay in the public sector has the plans voted for by the Labour party. We are on the side potential to support more for the same investment, and of working families, we are helping motorists, helping to help local businesses become more competitive. businesses—doing everything we can in very difficult circumstances for the world. 23. [113601]Michael Fallon (Sevenoaks) (Con): How Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) can it be fair for small businesses outside London and (Lab): I am glad that the Chancellor is beginning to the south-east to have to compete for staff paid on listen to the shadow Chancellor. However, the Government’s national rates working in public offices? Given that the own figures show that cuts to tax credits are leaving last Government committed us to local pay nearly thousands of parents up to £72 a week worse off, and 10 years ago, and that it already operates in the Courts some are better off if they quit their jobs. With the cost Service, what is the problem with encouraging other of living rising and the economy in double-dip recession, departments to follow suit? surely it is time we saw a U-turn on this perverse policy, to make sure that work pays. Miss Smith: My hon. Friend makes a valuable point that I am sure the independent pay review bodies will Mr Osborne: First, all families, if we take into account consider. If I were to put a number on the average the benefit and tax changes, are £5.50 better off a week premium for working in the public sector, I could name from April, and we have actually increased tax credits 18% in Wales. for the poorest families. We have had to make difficult welfare changes. They were completely opposed by the Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- Labour party, which also opposed the cap on welfare op): Last week, it was left to the Minister for the benefits. We have to ask the question: what would Cabinet Office and Paymaster General to come to the Labour Members do to get control of the budget deficit Chamber to explain the Treasury’s position on regional that they created? We have had two years and not a pay. Was that because the Chief Secretary does not single answer from Labour. That is why, as I say, we are support the policy and the part-time Chancellor does the people trusted to lead this country out of the not want to make another U-turn? economic mess that they put us in. Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Miss Smith: We had an extensive and rather premature Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is astonishing debate on this last week in the Chamber, and I shall say that Opposition Members do not welcome his again what I said then: the independent pay review announcement to cut the fuel duty that they proposed bodies are producing a report, and it would be premature when they were in government? Does he agree that this to review that without the evidence, which they are Government will focus everything they can on cutting considering. the cost of living for hard-working people?

Cost of Living Mr Osborne: We should judge people by actions as well as words, and Labour Members voted for increases in fuel duty, which this Government have stopped. That 5. Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): What is because we are on the side of working families, recent steps he has taken to reduce the cost of living. whereas Labour Members are simply on the side of the [113581] economic mess that they created. 147 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 148

Economic Performance Mr Nuttall: I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Although British businesses will welcome the fact 6. Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): that the United Kingdom is not in the eurozone, and What assessment he has made of the performance of will not suffer from the loss of sovereignty and the new the economy in the last 18 months. [113582] regulations that fiscal union would mean, they are nevertheless burdened by EU-imposed red tape, which The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): means that it is much harder for them to compete As the Office for Budget Responsibility made clear last successfully for new contracts against companies from autumn, Britain’s recovery has faced strong headwinds outside the EU, which are not subject to such regulations. from the euro area, high oil prices and the impact of the May I urge him urgently to conduct an investigation financial crisis being deeper than previously thought. into and an assessment of the extent to which that is Our actions to reduce the deficit and rebuild the economy holding back the British economy? have secured stability and kept interest rates near record lows, benefiting families, businesses and taxpayers, although, Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend makes an important of course, considerable external risks remain. point, and that is why we are taking action through the “Plan for Growth”. We want the Commission to publish Andrew Gwynne: That just does not wash, because by an annual audit of the cumulative cost of all planned May 2010 the British economy was growing, whereas EU regulations, but assessments are not enough in since the Government’s emergency Budget of June 2010 themselves, which is why as a consequence of lobbying the economy has at best flatlined and at worst dropped by this Government the EU has introduced an exemption back into recession. Why does the right hon. Gentleman for micro-businesses and is looking at lifting the burden think that is? of regulation on the small and medium-sized businesses that are key drivers of growth in our economy. Danny Alexander: By May 2010, the hon. Gentleman’s Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I am sure I am Labour Government had put in place plans to increase not alone in believing that what regulation we do have fuel duty by above the rate of inflation each and every should be made by this Parliament and not by the year of this Parliament. He should be welcoming the Commission in Brussels. However, I am sure that fact that we are taking steps to support hard-pressed the Minister will be aware of the survey reported by the families and hard-pressed consumers across the country CBI that shows that 94% of businesses are concerned in the very difficult economic circumstances that we above all about demand and the ability to sell their face. goods and services. Is that not the problem with Government economic policy? Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree that motorists across the country will Mr Hoban: What we need are measures to tackle welcome the cut in fuel tax announced for August and some of the structural problems in the economy that we that it will greatly improve the performance of the inherited from the previous Government and to tackle economy? Does this not show that the Government are issues to do with education, transport infrastructure on the side of hard-pressed working people? and the complexity of the tax system. Those are the reforms we need to ensure that the economy grows. Danny Alexander: I agree entirely with my hon. Friend. I met representatives of the FairFuelUK campaign Economic Growth yesterday. We have a great deal of sympathy with its arguments, as well as with those made by families across this country, including in remote and rural areas. It is 9. Damian Collins (Folkestone and Hythe) (Con): worth saying that thanks to the decisions this coalition What recent steps he has taken to encourage economic Government have made not only is fuel tax 10p a litre growth. [113585] lower than under Labour’s plans, but council tax is lower and income tax is lower. In the Budget in March The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): we also saw the largest ever increase in the income tax To help the economy, we are cutting taxes for businesses personal allowance, all of which puts money back into and families. We are, as we have just heard, freezing fuel the pockets of hard-pressed families. duty, helping 10,000 businesses with the national loan guarantee scheme, reforming the planning system, creating enterprise zones, setting up the regional growth fund EU Regulations and creating the biggest number of apprenticeships this country has ever seen. 7. Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): What recent assessment he has made of the effect of EU regulations Damian Collins: The recent Growth Factory report on economic growth. [113583] on industrial strategy highlighted the importance of rebalancing our economy. Does the Chancellor agree The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark that the record increase in employment in the manufacturing Hoban): The Government are taking action to reduce sector in the first quarter of this year is a welcome sign the burden of EU regulation on UK business. At Budget of the growing confidence at the heart of our economy? 2011, the “Plan for Growth” announced a comprehensive package for tackling EU regulation. The Government Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is right and I commend estimate that the cost of European regulations to the him and his group for the interesting ideas, many of UK has varied from 27% to 60% of the total UK which I agree with, that they are promoting. He is regulatory cost since October 2009. absolutely right to point out the increase in employment, 149 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 150 including in manufacturing employment. An interesting Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): My constituents warmly recent statistic from an independent international body welcome the Government’s support for the Northern on the British economy showed that the share of line extension in the Vauxhall/Nine Elms development manufacturing in the UK economy is increasing for the area. Is that not a good example of exactly the kind of first time in a very long time, having almost halved infrastructure project that the Government could support under the previous Labour Government. to help unlock economic growth?

Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): Why Danny Alexander: It is precisely such an example of did not the Chancellor cut fuel duty sooner? Why has it the sort of infrastructure that this country needs and taken him all this time? He has done about 33 U-turns the sort of project from which the economy of London as far as I can see. and elsewhere will benefit if we can bring the investment forward and make things happen more quickly. As I Mr Osborne: Last year we cut fuel duty and froze it. said, we are looking for ideas about doing just that. This year, we have frozen it again and the hon. Gentleman should welcome that. I know that he is in a slightly Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): difficult position in that he was one of the Labour MPs Is the Chief Secretary not aware that the so-called who voted for the increase that we have now delayed, national infrastructure programme is way behind schedule, but he should just get up and welcome these moves. that the construction industry is flat on its back and that the apprenticeships in that sector, so badly needed Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD): by the industry and by the Government, are seizing up? Economic growth in Cornwall would be discouraged by Why does he not get his finger out and do something the introduction of regional pay or the regionalisation about it instead of making vague promises? of benefits. Will the Chancellor undertake to publish the Government’s evidence to the independent pay review bodies that are considering this issue? Danny Alexander: The hon. Gentleman is wrong to say that the national infrastructure plan, which we Mr Osborne: I point out to my hon. Friend that we published last November, is behind schedule, but of have published that evidence. As I say, the matter is now course he is right to say that there are problems in the with the independent pay review bodies, so let us wait to construction sector. That is why we have taken a number hear what they have to say. of steps to support the house building sector, but we will make further announcements in that area later this Infrastructure Investment summer.

10. Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Over If he will discuss with his ministerial colleagues the past four years, footfall on the Norwich-Cambridge bringing forward the timing of public infrastructure line and the Fen line has increased by 20%. In the investment in order to encourage economic growth. Government’s infrastructure plan, will they bring forward [113586] the upgrading of the Ely North junction, which will enable half-hourly services on both those lines? The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): We are having those discussions as we speak. We are Danny Alexander: I do not know the details of the already spending more on new roads and new rail now Ely North junction project but I shall certainly raise the than we were at the height of the spending boom in the matter with the Secretary of State for Transport. However, previous Parliament. We have provided £2.4 billion for that is precisely the sort of project we have been bringing the regional growth fund, £770 million for the Growing forward over the past two years to support economic Places fund and £570 million for the Get Britain Building growth across the whole of the United Kingdom, rather fund. We can also support infrastructure investment than having a model of growth based solely on receipts through the use of Government guarantees and will be from the City of London, which was basically the announcing more about how we plan to do so later this policy of the Labour party. summer. Small Businesses Roberta Blackman-Woods: But will the Chief Secretary listen to the business leaders quoted recently in the Financial Times, who said that they had heard Ministers 11. Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): What talking about infrastructure projects for months but recent steps he has taken to increase bank lending to with no visible results? Will he publish a timetable small businesses. [113587] today, or very soon, for each region showing the projects that will be brought forward with their delivery dates? The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark Hoban): The Government have launched a package of Danny Alexander: The hon. Lady will have seen that credit easing measures to improve credit availability for last November we published the national infrastructure smaller businesses. This includes the £20 billion national plan, which does precisely what she said and which loan guarantee scheme and the business finance partnership, was widely welcomed by business leaders and business which will provide £1.2 billion of additional finance organisations across the country. She will know that we through non-banking channels. The Government and are spending more on road and rail than the previous the Bank of England are working together on the new Government managed, including on a number of projects funding for lending scheme, which will provide funding in her part of the world. to banks linked to their lending to the real economy. 151 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 152

Mr Wilson: There are a significant number of small transfers instead of addressing the real root causes businesses in my constituency that want to expand and of welfare dependency such as low aspirations and create jobs but cannot get sensible bank financing. I worklessness? therefore welcome the recently announced funding for lending scheme, but I understand that in exchange for Miss Smith: I certainly do. The important point is this funding, banks will have to provide collateral to the how we help people to get out of poverty and stay out. I Bank of England. Will my hon. Friend confirm, given note that there are problems with the current measure that the precise details of the scheme are not available of poverty. Because median incomes fall, children are yet, whether small loans will be acceptable to the Bank considered to have moved out of poverty when there of England as collateral? Otherwise, the desired lending will have been no real change to their lives. That cannot to smaller businesses will not get off the ground. be a fully accurate measure.

Mr Hoban: My hon. Friend makes a very important Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): What will point. He is right to point out that the details of the the Government do to address the still very high levels scheme have yet to be finalised, but I take on board his of in-work poverty, and how can freezing working tax comments. We will discuss this with the Bank of England. credit and reducing help with child care costs possibly It is important that the scheme works and that it helps help? funding and lending to households and businesses. Miss Smith: Let me name a number of things the Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): In view of the Government are doing to support families and let me banks’ disgraceful behaviour on delivering the Merlin note our plans to move toward universal credit, which agreement, will the Minister assure the House that this will help with work incentives. Let me note our plans to new scheme will be transparent and will be published have doubled the number of disadvantaged two-year-olds and monitored independently each month? Above all, receiving free hours of child care each week. On tax will he assure us that every pound of additional money credits, let me note that we have had to fix the previous that goes to the banks through this scheme will mean Government’s unsustainable budgeting in that area and additional lending to small businesses and households? that six out of 10 families with children are still eligible.

Mr Hoban: The scheme is designed to encourage Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Is it not especially lending not just to small businesses and households but important that we take action on child poverty, given across the board to all businesses. We want to make sure the quite sharp increase in the previous Parliament? The that when banks put collateral to the Bank of England, targets were missed by about 600,000, I think, and when it is in response to their having lent more. That is the previous Government left office, 4 million children absolutely vital for a scheme that encourages lending were in poverty. and we will make sure that we design the scheme to do so. Miss Smith: My hon. Friend is correct: child poverty is a real problem. This Government are committed to Child Poverty eradicating it and to increasing social mobility. We are taking the measures to assist children that I listed in 12. Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): response to the previous question. I should also point What assessment he has made of the effect of the out that the average household gains about £5.50 a Government’s fiscal policies on the level of child week from the tax and benefit changes made in April poverty. [113588] this year. We are making progress and acting where we can. It is important to keep up the pressure on child The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe poverty. Smith): The Social Mobility and Child Poverty Commission is being set up and will provide an assessment of child Fuel Duty poverty using a wide range of measures, including income. 13. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What assessment he has made of the effect on economic Mr Brown: Before the 2010 election, the Prime Minister growth of increases to fuel duty. [113589] said: “Poverty is relative—and those who pretend otherwise are The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe wrong.” Smith): The effects on the economy of fuel prices, Why are the Government now planning to abolish that including oil prices, refinery margins and tax, are assessed measure of child poverty? by the Office for Budget Responsibility as part of its economic and fiscal forecasts. Miss Smith: The Government have confirmed their commitment to child poverty targets and we are going Mr Hollobone: Motorists in the Kettering constituency further by consulting on better measures of child poverty and local hauliers will warmly welcome today’s in the autumn. We seek a range of views on that. announcement by the Chancellor. Has my hon. Friend undertaken any analysis of the negative impact on Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): national economic growth that would have occurred Does the Minister agree that the real failing of the had the present Government increased fuel duty by as previous Government was their narrow focus on income much as the previous Government intended? 153 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 154

Miss Smith: I can confirm that, through the actions Addressing borderline anomalies”. The response document of this Government, pump prices are 10p a litre lower will contain a list of those who contributed to the than they would have been under the previous Government, consultation. who had scheduled in 12 fuel duty rises while they were in office and six more for afterward. Chi Onwurah: As I am sure you know, Mr Speaker, Newcastle is the home of the Greggs pasty, so I was HMRC Helplines hopeful that the Chancellor’s latest U-turn but one would have resolved the great savouries shambles, but 14. Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): What the now I learn that he has turned his wrath on the pretzel average waiting time for calls to Her Majesty’s Revenue sellers of Newcastle, including Auntie Anne’s in Eldon and Customs helplines was in (a) the last 12 months Square. Could the Chancellor possibly focus on bringing and (b) the previous 12 months. [113590] growth to the economy, rather than confusion to our eating habits? The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): The average waiting time for a customer calling Mr Gauke: I am sure the hon. Lady is aware that HMRC’s helplines in the past 12 months was four Greggs welcomed what we said about hot food. None minutes and 19 seconds. In the preceding 12 months, it the less, there has been an anomaly in the tax system was four minutes and 13 seconds. whereby some hot foods have been treated differently from others. We are seeking to remove that anomaly Chris Evans: A constituent of mine has had a nightmare and that is exactly what we are doing. experience trying to get through to HMRC: he phoned several times throughout the week, but never spoke to an adviser and kept getting an engaged line. His is just Fiscal Policies (Output) one of many cases involving HMRC in my constituency office at the moment. With 10,000 HMRC staff being 16. Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): What recent laid off, how do the Government hope to clamp down estimate he has made of the effects of his fiscal policies on tax avoidance when they obviously cannot collect on the rate of growth in output. [113594] taxes in the first place? The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe Mr Gauke: The first point to make is that the numbers Smith): Tackling the deficit is necessary for supporting of front-line staff dealing with tax avoidance and tax sustainable economic growth. The Government’s credible evasion are increasing over the course of this Parliament, consolidation plan, which includes important measures in contrast with that happened during the last Parliament. to support investment and output, has restored confidence There has been improvement in contact centre performance in the UK’s fiscal position, helped avoid a rise in market in the number of calls that get through, but more interest rates and allowed a more activist monetary progress is needed. HMRC is deploying staff more policy. flexibly and conducting small-scale pilots to see whether the private sector can provide additional capacity. HMRC Kevin Brennan: Given that the lead-in time for fiscal is determined to improve performance. policy is about 18 months, how can the Minister explain the fact that the UK economy is now in recession, Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD): My elderly following the full impact of her Government’s fiscal constituent Mr George Robertson is concerned about policies? the amount of money that has been wasted because of a catalogue of errors over two years by HMRC helplines Miss Smith: It is essential to return the public finances and administration. They wrongly issued cheques for to a sustainable path. It is this Government who are overpayments to Mr Robertson, despite his correctly doing that, it is this Government who are keeping informing them that, in fact, he owed money; and when interest rates low, it is this Government who are taking the saga was eventually “resolved” in April, they got it action on fuel duty, and it is the Opposition who have wrong again. Will the Minister look into that case and no answers at all. the wider lessons that need to be learned, so that HMRC becomes more accurate and cost-efficient? Topical Questions Mr Gauke: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that point and I am happy to look into the case. T1. [113602] David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) HMRC’s record in dealing with end-of-year reconciliations (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental and improving accuracy is moving in the right direction, responsibilities. but there is more to do. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): VAT (Savoury Products) The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability of the economy, promote growth and employment, 15. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) reform banking and manage the public finances so that (Lab): What representations he has received on the Britain starts to live within her means. treatment of different savoury products for the purposes of levying VAT. [113591] David Morris: Inflation has now lowered from 3% to 2.8% in May, which should be welcomed on both sides The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David of the House. Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is Gauke): HMRC is shortly to publish on its website a other Government measures such as freezing the council summary of the responses to its consultation, “VAT: tax, freezing the fuel duty and increasing the personal 155 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 156 allowance that have helped tens of thousands of my T5. [113606] Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and constituents in Morecambe and Lunesdale with their Crayford) (Con): Does my right hon. Friend agree with cost of living? the head of the IMF, who said that she shivers to think what would have happened to the British economy without this Government’s plans to reduce Labour’s Mr Osborne: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend deficit? that it is very welcome news that inflation is now falling. That will help families. The Government want to help families further by keeping those mortgage costs very Mr Osborne: The Managing Director of the IMF put low, and the only way we can do that is by having a it in a very graphic way. She presented to the whole credible plan for the public finances. We have also country the alternative that we faced in May 2010. If we frozen the council tax, increased the personal allowance, had stuck with the Labour party’s incredible plans, we with another big increase next year, and as my hon. would be one of the countries seeking a bail-out, rather Friend has just heard, frozen fuel duty for the second than, as we are now, a country that is a relatively safe year running, so that his constituents in Lancashire and haven in the very, very difficult European situation. people across the whole country can be helped at this [Interruption.] The shadow Chancellor will not move difficult economic time. forward unless he concedes his role in getting Britain into this mess. Until he does that, he will remain a man of the past with no ideas for the future. Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): The Chancellor told the “Today” programme a few weeks ago that the only thing worse than listening is not T2. [113603] Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): Will listening. Well, he certainly listened to the “Today” the Chancellor update the House on what progress has programme this morning. We have now had U-turns on been made on his offer to the computer games industry pasties, churches, charities, caravans and skips, and of tax incentives in his last Budget? It is important to today a U-turn on fuel, which we welcome. It would be get the details of the policy correct, but it is also interesting to know at what point this morning the important that time is not wasted unnecessarily. As the decision was made, and whether the Transport Secretary old adage goes, actions speak louder than words. When was even told. Now that the Chancellor is on a roll, will can we expect to see the words turned into action? he also do a U-turn on the millionaires’ tax cut and rescind the granny tax rise? There is a vote next week. Mr Osborne: We will be consulting on that policy Will he join us in the Lobby or will he do the U-turn very, very shortly, alongside the new credits for animation first? and high-end television production. The video games industry is important in Scotland—for example, in Dundee Mr Osborne: It is quite difficult for a Conservative there is a particular centre of excellence—but it is Chancellor to do a U-turn on a Labour policy. I am not important across the entire UK, and the video game tax sure the Opposition is entirely joined up—or maybe it is credit will help, alongside animation and high-end TV because the right hon. Gentleman waited half an hour production. to come in. The hon. Member for Hyndburn (Graham Jones) sitting directly behind him, who is a Labour T4. [113605] Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con): In order Whip, has just tweeted on the fuel duty announcement to help small businesses and those seeking new that it is a deferred rise and cannot improve the economy. opportunities, will my right hon. Friend endorse the If the Labour Whip thinks it will not improve the jobs fair that I am hosting in Erewash on 5 September? economy, what does the shadow Chancellor think it Will he further set out what the Government are doing will do? to support small businesses, which remain the real engine of the British economy? Ed Balls: It is about time this part-time, U-turning Chancellor took some responsibility for his own decisions. Mr Osborne: I certainly support my hon. Friend and What is the reality? A double-dip recession, borrowing congratulate her on organising the jobs fair. As the rising, family budgets under pressure—his plan has most recent unemployment figure showed, not only is failed. Is it not time he listened to the Opposition and unemployment falling but 200,000 private sector jobs admitted that austerity has failed? Is it not time he did have been created in the last few months in our economy. another U-time and adopted Labour’s five-point plan When it comes specifically to small businesses, as I set for growth and jobs? out to the House earlier today, the national loan guarantee scheme has already helped more than 10,000 businesses with loans, we have cut the small companies corporation Mr Osborne: We enjoyed reading recently that the tax from the rate we inherited from the last Government, right hon. Gentleman has been spending thousands of and the freeze in fuel duty will also help small businesses. pounds on commissioning private opinion research about why his economic message is not getting through. It was leaked to the papers, saying that he was seen as T3. [113604] Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): In a “uninspiring” and “untrustworthy”. He had no need to time of austerity, when food banks are increasing in spend thousands of pounds on that. He can ask Labour almost every town and city in Britain, is it not high MPs and get that opinion of the shadow Chancellor. time that the Government published a comprehensive He has had two years to come up with a credible list of all those people who are profiting from these tax economic policy, and two years to apologise for his part avoidance schemes? Even Graham Aaronson, a in putting Britain into the economic mess that we are Government adviser, forecast today that if something is taking Britain out of. not done there will be riots on the streets. This is a 157 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 158 home-grown problem. Do not blame anybody else. Let at the time of the spending review I announced that we us have a list of all those people close to home and would invest an extra £900 million in Her Majesty’s those on millionaires row. Revenue and Customs so that it could employ a large number of additional experts to deal with tax avoidance. Mr Osborne: The last Labour Government, which That programme is projected to lead to an additional the hon. Gentleman supported, had 13 years to introduce £7 billion a year in tax revenue by the end of this a general anti-avoidance rule; we are introducing one Parliament, and we are well on track to meet that after just two years in office. The last Labour Government objective. had 13 years to stop stamp duty avoidance schemes; this Government, after two years in office, are doing Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and exactly that and stopping those schemes. The last Labour Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): Can the Chancellor confirm Government had 13 years to cap uncapped income tax that the Government are going to spend an additional reliefs, which are used for avoidance; we have introduced £150 billion in borrowing above their plan of a year and are introducing that cap. Frankly, actions speak ago? louder than words.

T6. [113607] Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) Mr Osborne: The Institute for Fiscal Studies was very (Con): With belt-tightening very much on the agenda clear that, had we pursued the plan proposed by the right across Europe, will the Chancellor at least consider previous Government, borrowing would be £200 billion making deep cuts to our EU budget contributions, and more than it is today. As I have said, it is this Government’s so ally himself with the vast majority of people in this credible fiscal plan that has brought record low interest country? rates and market credibility. We can see across the English channel what would happen if we did not Mr Osborne: We have worked very hard to freeze the have that credibility. That is where Labour would have EU budget during the last couple of years and avoid put us. the very large increases that both the Commission and the European Parliament have sought. We are now T8. [113609] Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Has my beginning the very important negotiations on the next right hon. Friend noticed that the most recent figures multi-year budget framework, and our objective is to from the Office for National Statistics show that deliver the best deal for the British taxpayer and make employment is up by 311,000, the biggest quarterly sure that unnecessary money is not going over to Brussels. increase since the general election, and does not that T10. [113611] Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) mean that since the general election two jobs in the (Lab/Co-op): Written answers to my hon. Friend the private sector have been created for every job lost in the Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Tom Greatrex) public sector? reveal that the nationalist Scottish Government have made no approach whatever to the UK Government on Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend—a knight of the realm—is membership of the Bank of England’s Monetary Policy absolutely correct. Despite these very difficult and Committee. Does the Chancellor think that Scotland challenging economic times, the private sector is creating would have more influence on monetary policy as part jobs. We of course have to help it to create more jobs of the UK or outside the UK using sterling as a foreign through the measures I have already outlined—cutting currency? the small companies tax rate, help with credit and the like—but we also need to help those looking for work. The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): That is why we have the Work programme and the The hon. Lady refers to just one of a number of youth contract, instruments that are much more effective shambolic statements made by the Scottish National than the programmes promoted by the previous party since it launched its campaign for independence a Government at helping people who are out of work to few weeks ago, and not just on the Bank of England, link up with companies that want to employ people. but on financial services regulation. She makes the point very powerfully indeed that Scotland is “better Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab): Britain is the together” as part of the United Kingdom. We have only G20 country in a double-dip recession, youth greater strength together as part of a more credible unemployment is at record levels, poverty is on the economic unit and part of the shared monetary policy increase, public services are in meltdown, and the of the Bank of England. All that would be jeopardised Government are borrowing around £4 billion more this if Scotland were ever to become independent. year than they did last year. The lessons of the 1930s demonstrate that the austerity programme that the T7. [113608] Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): The Chief Chancellor is pursuing will not work. Will he learn the Secretary has rightly committed the Government to lessons of history— clamping down on tax avoidance. Given recent high- profile cases of tax avoidance, and notwithstanding the earlier question from the hon. Member for Bolsover Mr Speaker: Order. We are extremely grateful, but I (Mr Skinner), will my right hon. Friend update the am afraid that we do not have time to go back to the House on the progress being made and perhaps give a 1930s now. We have the gravamen of the hon. Gentleman’s projection for the progress he expects over the rest of question. this Parliament? Mr Osborne: I suggest that tonight and tomorrow the Danny Alexander: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for hon. Gentleman turns on the television and watches the his question. As the Chancellor said, the Government evening news, because he will see that there are problems have done more on this issue in two years than the facing many economies around the world. The Labour previous Government managed in 13 years. In particular, idea that somehow Britain alone faces these challenges 159 Oral Answers26 JUNE 2012 Oral Answers 160 because the Government are trying to deal with the Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): One of my debt is absolutely ridiculous. There are all these European constituents was told by her department store employer economies in recession, the US economy had disappointing that she either had to accept a 12-hour contract, which jobs data, and the Chinese economy is slowing. These amounts to fewer hours than she works at the moment, are difficult times, but we are doing everything we can or go fully flexible, which does not fit with her child to help the British economy deal with the problems we care. Is it not time that the Chancellor decided to do inherited. another U-turn and to restore tax credits to those working couples who do not work up to 24 hours a T9. [113610] Mr Dominic Raab (Esher and Walton) week? (Con): Last year we lost the most working days to strikes in 20 years, and since the last election union The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Miss Chloe leaders have never won the backing of a majority of Smith): We on the Treasury Bench have argued many their members for any major strike. Will my right hon. times in the House that it is fair to ask couples to work Friend task the Office for Budget Responsibility to under similar requirements as lone parents, and I urge provide annual estimates of the cost to the economy of the hon. Lady to consider that in this case. strikes and of the concessions, paid for by taxpayers, to Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): When will avoid them? the House be given the details of the three very large schemes for monetary easing announced at the Mansion Danny Alexander: I am not sure that the hon. Gentleman’s House, and when will we be given a chance to debate suggested idea would be an appropriate task for the them? Office for Budget Responsibility to undertake, but he is right that strike action is costly to the economy. He Mr Osborne: It is standard practice for the Bank to would also be right to observe that it has not stopped announce its own monetary and liquidity schemes. That this Government proceeding with the reform of public is what it did with the liquidity proposals, and the service pensions, and with pay restraint in the public Governor of the Bank was answering questions about sector, too, to help deal with the enormous mess left to them this morning before the Treasury Committee in us by the Labour party. this House. When we have further details about the funding for lending scheme, we will of course come to Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab): With regard the House and make that announcement, but I hope to the problems at RBS this week, my constituent David that my right hon. Friend will allow me to continue to Robinson has been unable to access his funds, including make Mansion House speeches as Chancellors have disability allowance, from his account with thinkbanking. before. It is an internet-based bank that uses the RBS platform, so he could not go into an RBS branch to resolve his Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ problems. Will the Minister please make contact with Co-op): The counter-party proposal and the levy control RBS about internet banking users and make sure that mechanism fall within the ambit of the Treasury. Within my constituents—and everyone else—are not unduly the past hour the Energy Secretary has told the Energy affected? and Climate Change Committee, which is undertaking pre-legislative scrutiny of the Energy Bill, that he would welcome a Treasury Minister going before it to explain The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr Mark those proposals. Why is the Economic Secretary refusing Hoban): The hon. Lady makes an important point, and to do so? I spoke to Stephen Hester this afternoon to find out what progress RBS has made in resolving its issues. It Miss Smith: In correspondence with the Chairman of introduced measures to help people who can access the relevant Select Committee, I have articulated that branches, but she makes a very important point about there is no precedent in the records that we can find for internet banking, and RBS is very keen to learn the a Minister from one Department to assist in the scrutiny lessons from those problems and to put in place contingency of another Department’s legislation. arrangements for the future. I encourage her to get her constituent to write to RBS, and, if he has suffered Mr Speaker: Last but not least, the House—and the additional costs as a consequence of the situation, to nation—can hear from Mr Simon Hughes. make that claim to it. Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD): Following the exchanges about tax avoidance and Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): Embarrassing the Government’s very robust position, can one of the revelations about celebrities’ tax affairs usually bring a Treasury team tell us how soon we will have in place a flurry of people to their tax accountants, asking them system that targets not just celebrity individuals but all to check whether their affairs are all in order. Will the high-worth individuals, so that they all pay a decent Treasury ask HMRC to encourage people to come share of tax to the nation? forward voluntarily now and confess to what they may be up to, rather than wait for an investigation into their Mr Gauke: HMRC already has in place a particular tax affairs? team that focuses on high-net-worth individuals; under this Government, we have also introduced a team that The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David deals with not just the very top but the next band; and Gauke): My hon. Friend makes a very good point, and I we are looking to introduce a general anti-abuse rule hope that all those who have engaged in aggressive tax that will address tax avoidance—aggressive tax avoidance— avoidance schemes consider whether it is the right thing more widely. This Government remain absolutely to do and reconsider their affairs. determined to ensure that people pay their fair share. 161 26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 162

Rio+20 Summit undertaking. The UK Government will continue to keep up the pressure for rapid agreement. From now on, the process must be coherent and co-ordinated with 3.34 pm the work of Secretary-General Ban’s high-level panel The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg): Last on the post-2015 framework, which the Prime Minister week, 196 nations met in Rio, 20 years after the original will co-chair along with the leaders of Liberia and Earth summit. Our task was to find a way to set the Indonesia. world back on a sustainable path. Important progress Fourthly and finally, at Rio national Governments had been made in the past two decades on reducing recognised the importance of working alongside businesses. poverty and protecting our environment, but all in all, Thanks in no small part to the leadership of UK firms, ambitions had not been met. Our dilemma was to agree Rio recognised the role of corporate sustainability reporting ways to grow our economies without hoovering up or to their shareholders and to prospective investors— destroying our precious natural resources, recognising something that would have been inconceivable even a that our economic and environmental agendas must go year ago. I also announced in Rio that we will be the hand in hand. Our challenge was to take the right first country anywhere to mandate large companies to decisions, not just for ourselves, but for the next generation report on their greenhouse gas emissions. A growing which, in just 18 years, will need 30% more water, 45% number of companies and investors are realising that more energy, and 50% more food. their own success is directly linked to sustainable, green Was this summit an unqualified success on all those growth. We hope that the call from all nations for fronts? No, it was not—but few would have expected it businesses to report their sustainability performance to be. But we did make progress on the key areas that will usher in a new era of transparency and consistency the UK sees as the priority for sustainable development in the global business community. and green growth. I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend In summary, although Rio+20 did not go as far as we the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural would have liked, it revived a global commitment to an Affairs for her commendable efforts at the summit itself agenda that has come gravely under threat. Progress and for her intensive preparations with the Secretary of was made in the areas where progress needed to be State for International Development. made. The declaration agreed by all 196 countries should At the summit, the United Kingdom Government not be seen as the upper end of our ambition; it should played a crucial role in leading on four important shifts. be our baseline and we should all strive to surpass its First, while the Rio declaration was not all that we expectation. We must build on the steps that were taken would have wanted, this is the first time that a multilateral to reinvigorate the drive for sustainable development document expressing such strong support for the green and lasting growth. economy has been agreed. That in itself is a major The UK played a leading part last week because we achievement recognising that, in the long term, greening are on track to deliver our commitment to spend 0.7% our economies should not conflict with growing them. of gross national income on official development assistance The declaration helped to alleviate some of the fears of to developing countries from 2013; because I announced developing countries that green growth is a veil for a the adaptation for smallholder agriculture programme, kind of eco-protectionism designed to stymie their which will improve the lives of more than 6 million development. It united nations behind the simple principle smallholder farms; because we are taking the lead in that, as US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton put it at areas such as reproductive health and family planning; the summit, because we are the first country whose major businesses “the only viable development is sustainable development which will report their greenhouse gas emissions as part of will deliver lasting progress for everyone.” their annual accounts; and because of the range of ways Secondly, Rio+20 recognised that we need to develop in which we are greening our economy. We will remain broader measures of progress to complement GDP in committed to working with our partners and will be order to take account of the natural assets that will ambitious for the future. The summit is over but the contribute to future prosperity—so-called GDP-plus. work continues, and the UK will continue to lead from In the UK we have already committed to including the front. natural capital within our system of national accounts by 2020. We worked hard at the summit to ensure that 3.40 pm all nations present recognised the importance of broader measures of environmental and social wealth to complement Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): I thank the Deputy GDP. Prime Minister for the advance copy of his statement. Thirdly, we agreed to set up the sustainable development The original Rio declaration sought to eradicate poverty, goals—a concept proposed by Colombia. I was one of reduce unsustainable production and consumption, and the first to welcome this idea when President Santos promote greater co-operation to protect the world’s visited London in November. The UK has been pushing ecosystems. It is as relevant today as it was 20 years ago. hard to secure agreement ever since, and achieving it, Expectations were low for this summit, and those even at this high outline level, was no mean feat. The expectations were met. I pay tribute to the Deputy UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-moon, said that the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State for Environment, SDGs should draw on the success of the millennium Food and Rural Affairs, who worked as part of the EU development goals and should be an integral part of the delegation to prevent the summit from reaching abject post-2015 development framework. We would have liked failure. to see specific themes agreed, focusing on ensuring that There was a glimmer of hope. Ban Ki-moon’s zero everyone can access enough food, energy and water, but hunger challenge aims for a future in which everyone getting such agreement was always going to be a huge enjoys their basic human right to food and in which 163 Rio+20 Summit26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 164 global food systems are resilient. It aims to provide Will the Deputy Prime Minister therefore tell the House access to adequate food all year round, increase small how the Government will change how they do business farm productivity and see zero waste of food. We to reflect the Rio conference outcomes? welcome the UK’s contribution of £150 million to help Will the Government publish a UK action plan as a meet the zero hunger challenge. framework for the changes that they seek after Rio? Will curbing land grabs by large companies and Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with his right improving land rights, especially for women, be on the hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Environment, agenda of the high-level meeting on hunger that will Food and Rural Affairs, for International Development take place during the Olympics? What does the Deputy and for the Foreign Office that the Government need to Prime Minister make of the Prime Minister’s comments invest more in a resource efficient economy and low-carbon yesterday that a future Conservative Government would jobs to reduce costs and protect the UK from rising oil consider handing out some state benefits “in kind” prices and energy dependency? rather than in cash? Does he think that handing out The Deputy Prime Minister should be in no doubt food vouchers to the poor is a good idea, when the that the Opposition will work with him across party Brazilian zero hunger scheme was based on the Bolsa boundaries to achieve the long-term solutions that our Família, which gave money directly to families in poverty planet needs. Rio showed that the solutions to ending and let them choose how best to feed their children? hunger and deforestation, and to securing clean energy How will the zero hunger initiative tackle food poverty and water for the poorest, are all out there. We just need in the UK, where the Trussell Trust charity estimates to scale them up. that it will feed 130,000 people this year, 45,000 of whom are children? The scientists tell us we must act now and businesses stand ready to play their part. The tragedy is that the The Deputy Prime Minister mentioned that the Prime politicians did not agree concrete mechanisms by which Minister, alongside the Presidents of Liberia and Indonesia, those things can happen, but as the Deputy Prime will co-chair a new UN committee to establish a new set Minister has said, Rio was not a destination but a of millennium development goals to follow those that milestone on a long road. We stand ready to support the expire in 2015. How will the new goals relate to the Government to make the change we need to deliver the sustainable development goals that will emerge from future we want. Rio? There was progress in the field of energy, with the The Deputy Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Lady Secretary-General’s sustainable energy for all initiative, for her recognition of what I think is our shared which received pledges of $323 billion in funding to commitment to the agenda discussed at Rio. I totally bring clean energy to more than a billion people in share her support for the zero hunger initiative; I attended developing countries. We welcome that. We also welcome a session in Rio at which the initiative was discussed. the Deputy Prime Minister’s announcement at Rio that She asked about the hunger summit that will be held the UK will introduce carbon reporting for 1,800 quoted this summer. I do not know the precise agenda, but she companies from April next year, as set out in Labour’s referred to the importance and legal rights to property landmark Climate Change Act 2008. That was, sadly, and land, which are crucial to dealing with hunger the weakest option that the Government consulted on. sustainably. It creates the anomaly that British Airways will report its carbon footprint as a public company, but that The hon. Lady asked about the interaction between Virgin Atlantic, as a private company, will not. However, sustainable development goals, ill-defined though they we are the first country in the world to do it, which gives were at the Rio summit, and the work on the post-2015 us a temporary, green competitive advantage to make agenda. The Government’s strong view is that the up for the Government’s disastrous handling of the sustainable development goals as defined by the group solar feed-in tariffs. of 30 representatives, which will be established in September, must feed into the wider review of the millennium The agreements on biodiversity, oceans and the trade development goals through the high-level panel that has in endangered species are welcome. However, the been established by the Secretary-General. Government have refused to guarantee funding for the I will not disguise from the hon. Lady the fact that UK’s wildlife crime unit after next April. Does he agree within that procedural complexity, there are a lot of that that unit is on the front line of fighting the illegal sensitivities. Candidly, some developing countries have trade in endangered species, and will he argue for its hitherto felt that their voice is not strongly enough benefits at the heart of Government? heard in some UN processes. The Prime Minister and Sharing the benefits of the planet’s biodiversity equally his co-chairs will work hard to ensure that the voices of is an important building block for what happens after the developing world are properly listened to in the Rio, yet the Government have still not ratified the review of the MDGs to allay the concern that precisely Nagoya protocol, which was agreed last year, on access the part of the world that will benefit most from the to and benefits from genetic resources. What assessment process is shut out from it. We need to do quite of lot of has he made of the action we need to take to comply work to ensure that the different acronyms and processes with the protocol, and will the Government show leadership do not start becoming rival acronyms and process—that in the EU by ratifying it? is a danger. We know that sustainable development starts at home. The hon. Lady mentioned the sustainable energy for Far too often, the Government have been found wanting— all initiative, which I am glad she supports; it is an they abolished the Sustainable Development Commission outstanding initiative. I hosted a preparatory meeting and failed to introduce marine protected areas, and of the group on the initiative in London some months their implementation of their forests policy was disastrous. ago. We had hoped that the Rio declaration would 165 Rio+20 Summit26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 166

[The Deputy Prime Minister] electricity in Britain and create nearly 40,000 jobs—a green project that will deliver the Government’s renewable adopt the initiative as a core conclusion. In the event, energy commitments? because of the nervousness of some participants on what the initiative means and its implications, it was The Deputy Prime Minister: I pay tribute to the “recognised” in the declaration. We would have inserted fervour with which the right hon. Gentleman is throwing a stronger verb, but none the less, as with all those himself into this new cause in a political career of many initiatives, we now need to exploit that recognition and great causes. I agree with the underlying assertion that work on it. for investors to make investments in major energy The hon. Lady complained that the proposal on infrastructure of whatever kind, they need long-term greenhouse gas emissions reporting does not go far stability and long-term certainty about the direction of enough. We have to start somewhere. We are the only Government policy. That is precisely what the electricity country doing this. Some people complain that we have market reform aims to provide. already gone too far and are imposing too many burdens on business. Other business groups, such as the CBI, Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): Despite the have welcomed the proposal. I think we are breaking prominence given before the conference to protecting new ground, and I hope she will welcome that rather the world’s oceans in the face of the ongoing collapse in than cast aspersions on it. world fish stocks and the continued obliteration of The hon. Lady will know that the Darwin initiative is coastal livelihoods, it has been widely reported that the a robust initiative that we are using to monitor the concrete steps put forward were effectively blocked by plight of endangered species. Finally, she rightly said Russia, Canada and the US. Is that true? If not, what that these summits make sense only if one acts consistently specific steps were agreed? with them at home. We are rightly proud of our record: we are the first country to establish a green investment The Deputy Prime Minister: In many ways, it is bank; the green deal, which will be up and running in actually more dispiriting than the hon. Gentleman suggests, the coming six to eight months or so, will be the largest because we did not manage to get any agreement on any initiative of its kind for installing energy efficiency of the themes governing the sustainable development measures and bringing down energy bills in homes up goals. Sensibly, perhaps, in view of the dynamics at Rio, and down the country; and the green sector, the green that has been left for the working group in September. economy, is growing by about 5% a year, employs close On the plus side, from his point of view, the text reflects to 1 million people in this country and actually runs a the importance of oceans and their sustainable use, and trade surplus. That is something we should cherish and I would be surprised if oceans did not feature prominently celebrate. The carbon floor price is another major in the final shape of the sustainable development goals innovation of the Government, while the electricity as they are crafted in the months and years ahead. market reform, which is one of the most ambitious legislative and regulatory overhauls of an electricity Dame Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab): market I am aware of anywhere in the developed world, The Deputy Prime Minister will have heard my hon. is explicitly designed to ensure that we have a sustainable Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mary Creagh) mention energy mix for future generations. the Nagoya protocol, which, as he knows, has not been ratified. He knows how important it is to access and benefit sharing. Will he undertake to meet his EU Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): I counterparts in order to move forward the EU position congratulate everyone involved on what was a genuine on this matter, which is truly critical? team effort. Will the Deputy Prime Minister assure the House that one of Rio’s lasting legacies will be the The Deputy Prime Minister: We certainly want to see agreement to reaffirm a universal, open, non-discriminatory full ratification of the Nagoya protocol. It is something and equitable multilateral trading system for food and that this country has done, and I know that my right agricultural products? Will he give an undertaking that hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, we will really push for Doha to deliver this through the Food and Rural Affairs is working with her counterparts World Trade Organisation? in the European Union to encourage those who have not yet taken the necessary steps to do so. To make one The Deputy Prime Minister: No one is in any doubt observation, the Nagoya protocol flowed from the original that one of the greatest boosts to prosperity across the Rio+20 summit, but it was not agreed at that summit. world would be a successful completion of the very, The only reason why I make that point is that, for those very, very, very long-awaited Doha development round. who say that an insufficient number of legal texts were It is immensely frustrating that getting agreement on it agreed this time around, it is worth recalling that the has proved so elusive. Many have written it off altogether, history of the last Rio+20 summit was that, while it was and it is difficult not to be pessimistic about it, but that much more substantive than this one, it did lead and does not mean that we should not continue to pursue create a momentum that subsequently led to legal texts. the cause of multilateral trade liberalisation. I say to those who have responded with complete despair about this summit that it is now a matter of what we do Mr Peter Hain (Neath) (Lab): Given the frustratingly with it and whether we can turn it into legally binding disappointing outcome of Rio and the crisis of investor documents, which is the challenge for the future. confidence in solar PV, onshore wind and nuclear in Britain, is it not even more important that the Deputy Mr Peter Lilley (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Con): Prime Minister joins the growing cross-party support Within the privacy of this Chamber, will the Deputy for the Severn barrage, which would generate 5% of the Prime Minister admit that Rio actually showed that it is 167 Rio+20 Summit26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 168 now blindingly obvious that no other major country groups that want urgent action now, but did not get that proposes to follow us in imposing a legally binding reflected in the high-level agreement, and this UK obligation to cut emissions by 80% at a cost of £430 billion Parliament and its legislators can map out a way of to our economy, so we should discreetly shelve the taking urgent action and ensuring that it is followed up? Climate Change Act 2008 as soon as possible? The Deputy Prime Minister: I thank the hon. Lady The Deputy Prime Minister: My understanding is for her invitation, and I will think about it carefully. I that Mexico has done just that, just now, so it is not know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State right to say that countries are not seeking to follow our has attended her Select Committee. She is right, of lead. In my bilateral discussions with members of the course, to say that the Committee plays a crucial Brazilian Government, I was struck by how forceful role in mobilising the opinions of many groups—non- they were, as a major emerging economic power, in governmental organisations and others—which take an expressing the view that their own future success would interest all this. I hope that she recognises—as I know be defined by their ability to grow sustainably, which she was there—that the Government made considerable would require a departure from simply copying how efforts to talk to all those groups on an ongoing basis, development has been pursued in the past. I am afraid notwithstanding their evident disappointment in the that I do not share the right hon. Gentleman’s pessimism outcome of the summit, and we will of course continue about the virtues of, and potential for, sustainable growth to do so. in the future. Paul Uppal (Wolverhampton South West) (Con): There Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): The final is great news about the economic development of sub- text from the Rio summit effectively sells out the vision Saharan Africa, which is a possible portent for the of a green economy by replacing the usual phrase future but is also a double-edged sword, because that “sustainable development” or even “sustainable growth” development is built on the back of natural and mineral with a phrase of a quite different meaning—“sustained resources. Can my right hon. Friend assure me that the economic growth”. Given that Kenneth Boulding has UK will continue to take a lead on sustainability, and famously written: will tackle concerns about eco-protectionism head-on? “Anyone who believes exponential growth can go on forever in a finite world is either a madman or an economist”, The Deputy Prime Minister: That is one of the issues will the right hon. Gentleman tell us whether the problem that were raised forcefully by many of the leaders from at Rio was too many madmen or too many economists? Africa. I had a meeting with President Meles of Ethiopia, who is a leading thinker on all these matters. He recognises, The Deputy Prime Minister: I will not choose which. I in a way that I think is pretty far-sighted, that think the hon. Lady is selecting somewhat partially notwithstanding the challenges that his people now from a mammoth text, which refers to “sustainable face, he will be doing a disservice to them and, indeed, growth” and “sustainable development” throughout and to future generations of Ethiopians if they do not use in almost every paragraph. She has been a little partial the resources that are available to them in a sustainable in her selection of those two words. The whole assumption fashion. behind Rio was an overt recognition that it is senseless, and unfair on future generations, our children and our Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab): The hon. Member grandchildren, to grow today and clean up later. That for Richmond Park (Zac Goldsmith) was right to identify fundamental development dilemma, whereby development as particularly depressing the total failure to make any is pursued at the cost of the sustainable use of resources, progress on the second biggest environmental issue that was at the heart of Rio thinking before the summit and affects us—the need to protect our marine environment— during it, and it must remain part of our thinking but would not Britain have more credibility in terms of subsequent to the summit as well. leadership if we were not already two years behind in establishing our own network of marine protected areas, Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD): The agreement and if the Government had not drastically reduced at Rio for a new high-level political forum on sustainable their number so as to render them almost useless? development could provide the leadership that has been lacking in the past for the implementation of declarations The Deputy Prime Minister: I think that it was right and action plans. Will the UK Government do all they for us to take the extra time to secure a firm evidence can to ensure that the new forum has a wide agenda, a base in regard to those areas. We are not abandoning clear mandate to act and high-level political backing? the agenda; we are trying to do our job as thoroughly and rigorously as I know the right hon. Gentleman The Deputy Prime Minister: Yes; I think there is great would expect. potential for that forum to do good work. Given that all these forums are working on agendas to which we have Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con): The UK hit made a great commitment as a Government, we will the Kyoto targets, while a number of our leading European remain committed to their successful work. Union competitors signed up with a fanfare but came nowhere near hitting them. Is there any sign now that Joan Walley (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab): In thanking those European big energy-using countries will do better the Deputy Prime Minister and the Secretary of State in the future? for their work at Rio and notwithstanding the outcome, will the right hon. Gentleman commit to an early The Deputy Prime Minister: My own view is that any appearance before the Environmental Audit Committee, developed economy will serve itself best by moving so that all the different strands of all the different towards an energy mix that is diverse, sustainable, and 169 Rio+20 Summit26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 170

[The Deputy Prime Minister] The Deputy Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman may know, we have not only set an international precedent not over-reliant on unreliable forms of energy and very by, for instance, announcing that some of the largest volatile global prices. I think it is a good thing that we companies will be abiding by new greenhouse gas emission have been leading that agenda in this country while also reporting requirements; we are also setting the pace by meeting our Kyoto targets. Those activities are not moving towards what I referred to in my statement as inconsistent with each other, and I personally rebut the GDP-plus by 2020, whereby we do not just take a idea that a shift of that kind is incompatible with highly snapshot of our nation’s wealth and prosperity, but try competitive economies. to include in that new measures of the resources we are using and their sustainability. We have established a Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I welcome the natural capital committee, chaired by Professor Dieter frankness with which the Deputy Prime Minister delivered Helm, which I think is the first of its kind. Those are his statement on the outcomes of Rio, which were not not only institutional but methodological innovations what we could all have wished for. I think he recognises that are genuinely world beating, and I very much hope that one of the real strengths of the processes surrounding that other countries will follow our lead. Rio is what is happening at national level. In that context, would he care to comment on the success of the world summit of legislators, which was held during Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con): Does the the weekend before the high-level session, and on the Deputy Prime Minister agree with Mr Kandeh Yumkella, progress that was achieved there at national level? He the joint head of the United Nations “sustainable energy referred to Mexico, but there has also been progress for all” initiative, who said: relating to natural capital, the marine environment and “You can’t save the forest if you don’t have gas”? deforestation. Consequently, this country ought to expedite the use of our shale gas reserves in order to reduce domestic The Deputy Prime Minister: I pay tribute to the hon. energy prices. Gentleman for his work in GLOBE International, the world legislators’ forum. It was very helpful to me in Rio to listen to his views about the work of that body. I The Deputy Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman strongly agree with him: I think that some Governments may know, the Chancellor announced at the Budget and Parliaments sometimes struggle to know exactly that we would be developing a gas strategy. Our overall what legislative steps they should take in this regard. approach to energy policy as a Government is to make The establishment of best practice for them, via GLOBE, sure that the sources of energy we rely on are as diverse on a range of sustainable development issues can serve and sustainable as possible, and clearly, gas plays an as an important catalyst to ensure they do not just talk important role in that. That is why we are committed to the talk, but walk the walk. producing this new gas strategy. Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): I congratulate my right hon. Friend and his ministerial team on pushing Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op): The Deputy the summit further than I suspect it would have gone Prime Minister referred in his statement to the commitment without them, although the outcomes themselves were to providing 0.7% of GNI for development assistance. very modest. Does he agree, however, that although All three major political parties would like to put that binding agreements and legislation were never going to commitment into law. Why, therefore, did the International be part of the final outcome, we should welcome the Development Secretary—he is in his place next to the fact that the summit put genuine sustainability back on right hon. Gentleman—categorically refuse point blank to the agenda, and also set out a vision for its delivery? to support my private Member’s Bill? Members of both parties in the coalition have said that they will support The Deputy Prime Minister: Yes. The breakthrough, the Bill, and doing so would save parliamentary time conceptual though it is and not concrete enough, is that and get it through sooner, rather than later. 196 countries are saying overtly and explicitly, “We think development needs to be resource-sustainable and The Deputy Prime Minister: As the hon. Gentleman we want to craft sustainable development goals.”However, knows, the response to his private Member’s Bill is a in a sense, this is a concept without sufficient content. matter for the House. I should point out to him that if The test of whether it will be looked back on as a he attaches such significance to legislating on this issue, complete wash-out or a great triumph is what we then why on earth did his party not do it in 13 years in office? do with that outline concept, and whether we have the We are very clear that we will be delivering our commitment political will to use the mechanisms that have been to allocate 0.7% of GNI from next year, and that we will established—not least the group that will start work in legislate as soon as we possibly can. December—to flesh out the content and feed that into the wider review of the millennium development goals as they are reviewed and strengthened in the post-2015 Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): framework. Across the world at national level, legislators are effecting environmental change and improvement, even as Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP): The Deputy Prime intergovernmental processes stall. Further to the Deputy Minister has been very candid about the limitations of Prime Minister’s reply to the hon. Member for Brent the declaration from Rio, but he urges us to strive to North (Barry Gardiner), will he support the GLOBE surpass his expectation. Does he any specific ideas world summit of legislators process going forward, so about what the UK might do in this respect? In particular, that, from Mexico to China in the past, and other has he thought about following the Scottish Government’s countries in the future, we can see action today, rather example of establishing a climate justice fund? than words at summits? 171 Rio+20 Summit26 JUNE 2012 Rio+20 Summit 172

The Deputy Prime Minister: As I explained in my The Deputy Prime Minister: The SDGs, which are the meeting in Rio, I am intuitively a big supporter of core commitment at Rio, do have fairly clear procedural GLOBE, as I think it is far better if these summits are timetables; a group of 30 representatives will be established not just a get together of Presidents, Prime Ministers, in September, and the UN Secretary-General has been Deputy Prime Ministers and Ministers, but involve clear that that must feed into the wider post-2015 legislators; they should not just be a great big club of millennium development goals process. There is a pretty the Executive. The more we can involve legislators and clear process. However, we just have to recognise that a Parliaments, the more we can guarantee that action is summit in a world where power is shifting to different subsequently taken. I am very happy to look at ways in hemispheres and different continents is different from which the Government could provide more support, in one that took place 20 years ago. Brazil now has authority as much as we can, to the excellent work that GLOBE and clout on the international stage that it did not have has already undertaken. then; the G77 is organised as a caucus of developing countries, which was not quite the case 20 years ago, Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Following Rio+20, I am and they are rightly more demanding that their voice sure that we all agree that fine words need to be backed and voices should be heard. That is reflected in the up with practical actions, so could the Deputy Prime more diverse push and pull that we witnessed at the Rio Minister tell me what safeguards his Government will summit. put in place to ensure that, with the growing number of biomass-fuelled power plants, imported biomass material Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ comes from genuinely sustainable sources and is not Co-op): One of the areas of disappointment was the contributing to deforestation and loss of biodiversity? failure to move forward on measures to improve access to water and sanitation for the many millions in the world who do not have that. Given that, and given that I The Deputy Prime Minister: My understanding is know the Government are committed to that objective, that there are European Union standards that seek to what steps will they take in other international bodies to ensure that the biomass industry adheres to basic try to promote the objective of improving access to environmental standards, but it is one industry of many water and sanitation throughout the world? in which this Government are keen to ensure that there is more, rather than less, investment, in order that we The Deputy Prime Minister: I agree with the hon. get the diverse mix of energy sources and energy generation Gentleman that that is one of the most important that I referred to earlier. issues, as we see from the shocking and scandalous figures on the number of children and women, in particular, Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD): I commend who have died because of poor sanitation and restricted my right hon. Friend and the Secretary of State on access to clean water. It was one of three themes—food, the positive stand taken by Britain in Rio, but given the water and energy—that we had hoped would be defined lack of any landmark agreements comparable to the in greater detail under the rubric of the sustainable original Earth summit, how can Britain now promote development goals at Rio. We will continue to push to rapid, timetabled agreement on issues such as GDP-plus do that as they are defined in greater detail in the and the sustainable development goals? months ahead. 173 26 JUNE 2012 Points of Order 174

Points of Order the matter up with the Department for Communities and Local Government, but what matters is that the council gets help if it is entitled to it. Mr Speaker: We are grateful to the Secretary of State 4.13 pm for that acknowledgement and explanation, which is Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab): On a point of order, very helpful. Mr Speaker. During yesterday’s urgent question on Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con): On a point flooding, I asked the Secretary of State for Environment, of order, Mr Speaker. Although, sadly, the Deputy Food and Rural Affairs what support Calderdale council Prime Minister is no longer with us—corporeally, at could expect to receive under the Bellwin scheme to any rate—I was concerned, as I trust you were, at the fund both its emergency response and its recovery effort. widespread reports in the weekend press that he had In her reply, she said that vetoed any prospect of a referendum on the possible “the trigger for the Bellwin formula is 15% of a local authority’s introduction of a proportional representation voting income”.—[Official Report, 25 June 2012; Vol. 547, c. 25.] system for elections to a reformed upper House. Given That did not sound right to me, so I went to the House the constitutional importance of such an issue and the of Commons Library and discovered that the trigger is motivation that it is clearly designed to help the Liberal in fact just 0.2% of a council’s annual income; that Democrats retain a permanent stranglehold on future triggers a reimbursement from central Government of legislative processes, should not such announcements 85% of the costs incurred. Would you like to invite the be made initially to this House rather than via the Secretary of State to comment and correct the record media? on this matter? Mr Speaker: That was a scintillating polemic for the House to savour, but what I would say to the hon. Mr Speaker: Clearly this is a key point in the mind of Gentleman, whom I have known for 29 years this the shadow Secretary of State. As the Secretary of State October, is that although the logic of his attempted is with us and literally on the edge of her seat, let her point of order is compelling, it suffers as a point of come to the Dispatch Box and respond if she so wishes. order from the disadvantage that the premise on which the logic has been built is, in my judgment, misplaced. The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and The reason I say that to the hon. Gentleman is that the Rural Affairs (Mrs Caroline Spelman): This just shows Deputy Prime Minister was not announcing a change what we all know in the House: when it is not one’s of Government policy but, as far as I can tell, merely departmental brief, one probably should not venture an reiterating the status quo. That will have to do for now, opinion. The hon. Lady has informed the House of this but all these matters will doubtless be explored eloquently, matter. The 15% figure that was in my mind when in detail and at length in the upcoming debates on answering the urgent question comes from the amount House of Lords reform, to which I fancy the hon. that is then disbursed to the local authority. I have taken Gentleman will wish to contribute. 175 26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 176

When the Deputy Prime Minister woke up in Rio last Opposition Day Thursday, he said about the Secretary of State’s proposals: “I am not in favour of anything that would lead to a two-tier [3RD ALLOTTED DAY] system where children at quite a young age are somehow cast on a scrap heap. What you want is an exam system which is fit for the future” Secondary Education (GCSEs) and “doesn’t turn the clock back to the past…so it works for the many Mr Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected and not just…the few.” the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. I agree with that sentiment. The question for Liberal Democrat colleagues is whether they have the courage to 4.16 pm vote for our motion, which supports the words of their leader. Stephen Twigg (Liverpool, West Derby) (Lab/Co-op): I beg to move, Alok Sharma (Reading West) (Con): Labour made a That this House notes the forthcoming consultation on the real difference to our education system—there is no restructuring of the secondary education system; further notes doubt about that. However, at the same time as grade the proposals reported in the press on Thursday 21 June of inflation was on the rise we were dropping in the Government plans for replacing GCSEs with an O-Level and international league tables on maths, English and science. CSE system; believes that these proposals could, in the words of Should not the hon. Gentleman be apologising for the the Deputy Prime Minister, ‘lead to a two tier system where disservice he has done to our young people, or is he now children at quite a young age are somehow cast on a scrap heap’; and calls on the Government to ensure any proposal for changes championing mediocrity once again? to the secondary education system are subject to approval by the House. Stephen Twigg: Well read, I suppose. I must correct my earlier remark when I referred to Liberal Democrat In three years’ time, the education leaving age will rise colleagues because I think there is only one Liberal to 18. That change represents a huge challenge to Democrat Member in the Chamber. [HON.MEMBERS: schools and colleges up and down the country. How can “Two!”] Sorry, there are two. I was going to comment the education system adapt to the challenge? How can on the absence of the Liberal Democrat Minister of we enable all children and young people to achieve their State, Department for Education, the hon. Member for full potential? How do we ensure that young people Brent Central (Sarah Teather), but we have instead the have the skills and knowledge to succeed in life, including Liberal Democrat Minister of State, Foreign and in the world of work? Commonwealth Office, the hon. Member for Taunton Earlier this month, the Secretary of State was advocating Deane (Mr Browne). I think the percentage would be a return to Victorian-style rote learning in our primary just under 2%—that is my calculation. schools. Now he wants to bring back a two-tier exam Last week, the Daily Mail, in a leaked story, reported: system, which his own party abolished more than 25 years ago. That is all from a Government who are “None of the plans require an Act of Parliament.” making the biggest cuts to education spending since the This week, according to the Government’s amendment 1950s. I am a great supporter of history, but I do not on the Order Paper, the Government are calling for believe that we need a school system that is stuck in the proposals that are approved by Parliament. May I welcome past. yet another U-turn by the Government to give Parliament a proper say, but may I suggest that as well as changing The Opposition believe in stretching the most able the process, the Secretary of State should change the students. We believe in rigour, high standards and substance of these leaked proposals? Today’s debate opportunity for all students in all subjects, academic provides the House with an opportunity to reject a and vocational. move to bring back a system that was created in the 1950s and abolished in the 1980s. Several hon. Members rose— These proposals were leaked just as pupils were sitting Stephen Twigg: I will give way shortly, but I want to their GCSEs. As nervous and stressed young people develop my argument first. were queuing up to sit hugely important exams, the Secretary of State was saying that those exams were The most important ingredients of success in education worthless. How insulting to young people who have are the quality of leadership and the quality of teaching studied and revised so hard. How insulting to parents and learning; the Secretary of State is nodding his who have helped their children through the stress of assent. It is vital that those ingredients are backed by a exams and how insulting to our brilliant teachers who credible set of qualifications. We support reforming the have worked so hard to prepare their pupils. Why are structure of the examination system to deal with unhealthy these changes being made now and why are they being competition between exam boards. If that means a rushed? Is the Secretary of State concerned that his single exam board, we will consider those plans in other policies will result in a fall in school standards? Is detail, and I understand that the Select Committee is it that he needs to mask the reduction in standards by due to make proposals to deal with that precise challenge abolishing the main existing measure of secondary school shortly. Sensible, thought-through and evidence-based results? Is that why the Government are so determined measures to increase rigour and tackle grade inflation to do this? will have the full support of the Opposition, but let us be clear about the fundamental difference between us Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con): In 2004, and the Education Secretary: the proposal to divide when the hon. Gentleman was criticised for putting pupils at 14 into winners and losers. a cake decoration qualification on a par with GCSE 177 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 178

[Jake Berry] by 2009 we were 12 places behind Germany? What did he do when he was in government to raise standards in maths he called it “educational snobbery”. Does he vital subjects and compete with other countries? stand by those comments? Does he still believe that cake decorating is equivalent to GCSE maths? Stephen Twigg: First, how would this solution help? As the hon. Lady knows, there are different international Stephen Twigg: Ihaveneverbelievedthatcakedecoration comparisons and analyses. The study carried out by the is equivalent to GCSE maths, and I certainly think the programme for international student assessment, PISA, hon. Gentleman should come up with better interventions to which she refers, shows one thing, but the trends in than that. international mathematics and science study, TIMMSS, These plans are nothing less than a cap on aspiration. shows something quite different: English results in When he introduced the GCSE in 1984, the then mathematics are much better in TIMMSS than in the Conservative Secretary of State, the late Lord Joseph, PISA study. I take the challenge she sets out very said the new system would be seriously—we do need to do more and I am in favour of “a powerful instrument for raising standards of performance at more rigour. What I do not understand is why that every level of ability.”—[Official Report, 20 June 1984; Vol. 62, cannot be done by reform of the GCSE system. We can c. 304.] make GCSEs more rigorous. We do not have to go back Last week, the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness to dividing children into sheep and goats at 14. (Mr Stuart), the distinguished Conservative Chairman The hon. Lady is an authority on these matters and I of the Select Committee on Education, said that the pay tribute to her hard work, especially on mathematics. Secretary of State is The number of young people taking mathematics at “setting out a policy that appears to be more focused on the A-level started to increase significantly under the Labour brighter kids…and not focusing on the central problem we have Government. We need to do more to accelerate that which is doing a better job for the children at the bottom.” trend and to explore all the ways we might do that, but The Government amendment this afternoon claims surely she welcomes the fact that the number taking that they want “high standards for all” to boost social A-level maths increased under the Labour Government? mobility, but the proposals leaked to the Daily Mail admit that 25% of “less-able pupils”—about 150,000 a Elizabeth Truss: In fact, there was a massive drop in year, every year—would take the number of students taking maths in 2000, when “simpler qualifications similar to old-style CSEs”. Labour introduced modular exams; that had a massively Last week, Lord Baker, another Conservative former damaging effect. That number is now beginning to Education Secretary, said that the certificate of secondary recover, which is indeed good news, but does the hon. education was Gentleman agree that the previous Government were “a valueless bit of paper. It was not worth anything to the responsible for the drop in the first place and the decline students or the employers.” in standards relative to countries such as Germany? He How will writing off a quarter of young people boost still has not answered my question about how Germany social mobility and standards for all? managed to reform its system.

Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): Does my hon. Stephen Twigg: Let us learn from other countries’ Friend recognise the scenario in, I think, the first year in systems. That is the point I was seeking to make. We which the GCSE was introduced, where many working-class recognised that there was an issue, which is why we children in inner-city contexts were streamed off to the addressed it and why, as the hon. Lady acknowledged, CSE and then went on to the failed youth training the number taking maths at A-level has started to scheme? We do not want that scenario back in our inner increase, and not just since the change of Government cities. We need to ensure parity for all at 16. in 2010; it predated that change of Government. When we debate these topics, it is important that we are Stephen Twigg: My right hon. Friend is absolutely balanced in our use of evidence. I am prepared to right and anticipates my next point. We know from acknowledge the issue that she outlined as regards analysis of the CSE that it was, in practice, a school-leaving PISA, but I am sure she could acknowledge that we do certificate for the poor. In the decade after its abolition, a lot better in some of the other international research, the number of the poorest pupils staying on at school including TIMSS. after 16 increased by a very significant 28%. The CSE and O-level system was designed more than half a The Financial Times has done an in-depth analysis of century ago, when our society was completely different— the proposed new CSE. It says that it there were far more unskilled jobs and typically children “will tend to be an exam for poorer children”. were split off into grammar schools and secondary It goes on to say: moderns. A pupil at a comprehensive in 1971 was “There will be a geographical effect, too, with some areas 25 times more likely to take CSEs than a grammar switching heavily to it. . . The CSE will be a northern qualification”. school pupil—perhaps not surprising. A pupil in a secondary modern school was 50 times more likely to This matters. The Secretary of State is in danger of take CSEs than a grammar school pupil. putting a cap on aspiration for poorer children and for those living in the poorer regions of the country. Elizabeth Truss (South West Norfolk) (Con): Does In last week’s urgent question the Secretary of State the hon. Gentleman agree with me that the world’s told the House that we already have a two-tier system, skills are increasing and we need to compete? Can he but he knows that at present pupils who sit the simpler explain why, under the Labour Government, in 2000 we foundation papers for GCSE can still get a C. Indeed, if were ahead of Germany in the maths league table, but their coursework is good enough, they can even get a B. 179 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 180

With the CSE system, they will have a qualification on businesses want our schools to focus on employability their CV which suggests to employers that teachers skills, presentation skills and practical skills, critical thought they had low ability. There is a real danger that thinking and team working, as well as the crucial they will simply stop striving for success. foundations of literacy and numeracy. The Labour Government started to narrow the gap in I was one of those who took O-levels. I know that I education between rich and poor. These proposals pose do not look old enough. I was just waiting for a a real threat that the north-south divide will worsen and Conservative Member to make that point. even fewer young people from the poorest families will stay on at school or go on to university. I am sure the Mr David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con): Education Secretary has read the OECD’s research, Give us the results. which concluded that social mobility is lower in countries which Stephen Twigg: I will write to the hon. Gentleman “group students into different curricula at early ages”. with the results. I took O-level English. I think I got an Most scientific evidence now shows that teenagers’ A in literature andaBinlanguage. When I was doing brains can change late in life, even up to the age of 16. O-levels I had no way of testing the skills that the CBI Professor Cathy Price of University college London tells us matter—no course work, no speaking and listening found that teenagers’ IQs can jump by as much as component; rather the questions often required fairly 20 percentage points. She comments: basic skills, such as summary and reading comprehension. “We have to be careful not to write off poorer performers at an That is one reason why I say that speaking skills should early stage when in fact their IQ may improve significantly given a be a priority for all our state schools, as they are in so few more years.” many of our primary schools. The Education Secretary observed recently that it was “morally indefensible” Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): I am grateful that some professions are dominated by pupils from to the shadow Secretary of State for giving way and I private schools. I simply cannot see how bringing back apologise for dragging him back slightly, but before we CSEs will address that indefensible position. It will go on to talk about what the solutions might be, it make it even worse. would helpful to have some clarity about where we start from. Does he believe that an A grade at GCSE when it Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): The hon. Gentleman was introduced was equivalent to an A grade at O-level, described how he now accepts that there was grade and that it is easier to get an A grade at GCSE today inflation. When did that road to Damascus discovery than it was back in 1988? take place? Was it in 1997 when he was first elected, Stephen Twigg: I absolutely acknowledge that there is 2005, 2010 or 2012? grade inflation in the system—[HON.MEMBERS: “Ah!] and I have said that previously. The “Ah!”s are very Stephen Twigg: Anyone listening to this debate is welcome, but it is not something that I have not said probably not very interested in the progress of my before, and I have said today that we will support thinking on these matters. They are probably slightly measures that root out grade inflation. We will support more interested in the opportunity for Members on sensible reform of the examination boards because both sides of the House to hold the Secretary of State there is a good argument that a kind of competition to to account, which is the purpose of today’s debate. the bottom has contributed to grade inflation. However, I repeat that I do acknowledge that there is an issue of grade inflation. In an interview in January Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): Does my 2012, the Secretary of State said: hon. Friend agree that experience in teaching shows “It is important to recognise that it is not just grade inflation that it is very difficult to predict at the age of 14 exactly that is responsible for improvements in our schools. I do believe where a young person will be at the age of 16? Is not the that our schools have got better, incrementally in some case, problem with the Government’s proposal that there is quickly in others, over the course of the last 15 years.” no way of deciding at that age exactly what a child’s So in fact we can reach a consensus on this. There has performance will be in two years’ time? been grade inflation, but there was also significant improvement in our schools during the last 15 years, for Stephen Twigg: Absolutely. My hon. Friend has struck 13 of which, as I recall, the Labour party was in at the heart of the debate and at the heart of where the government. Opposition differ from the Secretary of State. We cannot write young people off at 14, for the reasons that she set Several hon. Members rose— out. Several hon. Members rose— Stephen Twigg: I will complete my speech, because a number of colleagues on both sides of the House wish Stephen Twigg: I shall make a little more progress, to take part in the debate and I am drawing to a close. then I will take a couple more interventions. I know that I worry that the Government are ignoring the central there are a number of hon. Members who want to issues in the debate. The system does need reform and speak in the debate as well. improvement. Labour made changes in government. I am, as I have just said, open to sensible ways of For example, we made the main measure of performance improving the GCSE system. We know from businesses at key stage 4 include English and maths, addressed and employers organisations that they want an examination social mobility from early childhood with Sure Start system that provides young people with the skills that and free nursery places, and focused on literacy and reflect the needs of the modern economy. The recently numeracy in our primary schools. I am proud that published annual CBI education survey shows that under Labour we began to see a narrowing of the 181 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 182

[Stephen Twigg] We are all grateful to the hon. Gentleman for securing the debate this afternoon and congratulate him on attainment gap between rich and poor children. That is doing so. As an experienced former Schools Minister, not me saying that; it is according to analysis published he brings passion and fluency to consideration of these by the Financial Times, conducted by Simon Burgess, issues. He has also brought a degree of intellectual professor of economics at Bristol university. He said honesty to the debate, which is welcome—I do not that the Labour Government was think that we have ever heard an acknowledgment from “turning the tide on social mobility”. the Labour Front Bench that there was grade inflation His analysis looked at core GCSE qualifications and under Labour. That was not the case with his immediate the number crunchers stripped out the effects of grade predecessor as shadow Secretary of State, and it was inflation. The outcome was a sustained improvement in certainly not when the right hon. Member for Morley the results achieved by children from the poorest and Outwood (Ed Balls) was Secretary of State. I think neighbourhoods. The cause of that social mobility was that it is important that we record this moment, because certainly not changes to the exam system—sometimes it seems the first occasion when there has been a genuine they are needed—rather it was investment, more and acknowledgment of one of the failures of Labour’s better teachers and greater freedom for schools to innovate. management of our curriculum and qualifications system. In a moment we will discuss the future and how we Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con) rose— might reform our examination system and our curricula, but before that I want to note how striking it was that in Stephen Twigg: I am drawing to a close. the hon. Gentleman’s speech, which I enjoyed and This debate strikes at the heart of the approach taken appreciated for its honesty and grace, he did not come by this Secretary of State, a Secretary of State who forward with a single positive proposal for how to make favours dogma over evidence and pet projects over our qualifications more rigorous. He acknowledged changes that work for the many. These proposals will weaknesses, but at no point did he say that he would introduce a two-tier system, a massive step backwards, change things in any particular direction. There was no closing off opportunity for thousands of young people, Labour policy or initiative and nothing progressive and a cap on aspiration. from that side of the House, merely criticism. Of course, In Saturday’s edition of The Times, the Secretary of he will have an opportunity in future debates to outline State’s former teacher, W. G. R. Bain, wrote: what he thinks on these questions but, at the moment, “Although Michael Gove was once one of the brighter pupils where thought and initiative should be there is still a in my form class, the top stream at selective Robert Gordon’s vacuum, a hole in the air. College, I am afraid that in the intervening years he has learnt little about hoi polloi”— Before we look to the future, let us consider the past and Labour’s record. As the shadow Secretary of State his phrase, not mine. He concluded that rightly said, there are aspects of Labour’s record that I “combative debating is his strength, not common sense”. acknowledge are good and wish to build on. I am Frankly, I could not have put it better myself: no common looking forward to building consensus across the House sense, instead arrogance; no interest in the evidence, on the growth of the academies programme, for example, instead dogma; and no interest in the many, instead naked the growth of Teach First and the importance of improving elitism. Those of us on the Opposition Benches believe teacher training. But there are other areas where I fear in high standards for all. We have an opportunity today that a wrong turning was taken, one of which relates to to consign the idea of a two-tier system to the scrap heap. the curriculum and qualifications. In particular, as our amendment to the motion points out, we saw a flight 4.40 pm away from the rigorous subjects that employers and universities value. Under Labour, the proportion of The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove): students taking history at GCSE dropped to just 31%, I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “House” the number taking science subjects dropped by 5%, the to the end of the Question and add: number taking geography dropped by 15%, and the “notes the forthcoming consultation on the secondary school number taking foreign languages dropped by 34%. That qualifications and curriculum framework; welcomes the opportunity was despite the shadow Secretary of State saying in to address the weaknesses of the system introduced by the previous Administration, which undermined confidence in standards, increased May 2004, when he was a Minister in the Department inequality and led to a reduction in the take-up of core subjects for Education: such as modern languages, history, geography and the sciences; “In the knowledge society of the 21st century, language competence and calls for proposals which are approved by Parliament and and intercultural understanding are not optional extras, they are which are based on the principles of high standards for all, an essential part of being a citizen.” greater curriculum freedom, and a qualifications and curriculum framework which supports and stretches every child and which That is presumably why in September 2004 he took boosts social mobility.” modern foreign languages out of the national curriculum. May I first congratulate the shadow Secretary of State The reason why a drop and a deterioration in the on his kind words about Saturday’s edition of The Times, numbers following those subjects matters is that they which will be welcomed in every part of the Gove are critical to social mobility. Both parties in the coalition household, particularly by Mrs Gove, whose column have made improving social mobility the long-term appears on that day? I am also grateful to him for goal—the measure of the success—of the five years that paying such close attention to the words of Bill Bain—if we have in power, and we know that more students only I had paid closer attention to his words when at studying history, foreign languages, geography, physics, Robert Gordon’s college—and I am sure that the alumni chemistry and biology means more students having a of the school will be grateful to him for his generous chance to do satisfying subjects at university and fulfilling words. jobs in the 21st century workplace. 183 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 184

Mr Lammy: Will the right hon. Gentleman give way? Member for Liverpool, West Derby, and as a result of those changes a certificate in nail technology counted as Michael Gove: In a second. two GCSEs, a diploma in horse care counted as four It is for that reason that we introduced the English GCSEs and, by 2010, where previously 15,000 such baccalaureate measure, in the teeth of opposition from qualifications had been pursued, 575,000 were being the Labour party—both sides of the coalition determined taken, crowding out real study, driving rigour to the to redress that decline. What has the result been? In two margins and holding back social mobility. years, we have already seen the numbers taking languages Incentives were created by government which, as up by 21%; taking history at GCSE up by 26%; taking Alison Wolf points out, geography up by 70%; and taking physics, biology and “deliberately steered institutions and, therefore, their students chemistry up by more than 70%. What we have seen as a away from qualifications that might stretch (and reward) young result of that determined change to the way in which we people and towards qualifications that can be passed easily.” set aspiration for our young people is improved social She says also that, of the current cohort of children mobility—Liberals and Conservatives working together between the ages of 16 and 19, in order to achieve it. “at least 350,000 get little to no benefit” Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): I from such qualifications. remember contributing to an Adjournment debate about the dropping of foreign languages, but how will the Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab) rose— Secretary of State deal with a situation such as that in Birmingham, where in about half of our schools English is the second language? Will his proposals fit in with Michael Gove: Will the hon. Lady defend that wrong their first language and with English as their second, or turn in Labour policy? will his crude measure of just any other foreign language actually not address the problem of learning the skill of Gloria De Piero: I asked the head teacher of a really a second language? successful academy in my constituency what he thought about the issue, and he told me: Michael Gove: I have enormous respect for the hon. Lady, “We will have to limit success by choosing tiering well before who makes a very important point about Birmingham. students have hit their potential.” It is the youngest city in Britain, and its multicultural traditions are part of its strength, but it is important to Does the Secretary of State believe that that fantastic recognise in Birmingham that, although there are some head teacher, who is taking his school from strength to excellent schools, such as Perry Beeches and Arthur strength, is an enemy of reform? Terry, there are some underperforming schools. The excellence of a school is not, however, related to Michael Gove: I absolutely do not. I am sure that that the number of children who have English as an additional school, like many of the schools in the hon. Lady’s language; all research shows that such children are just constituency, is doing a fantastic job, and I am grateful as capable of succeeding as children from any background. that she has been so enthusiastic in embracing the What matters is the quality of the school, not the nature academies reform programme. of the home background, and what matters for all As the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby children in the 21st century is developing the language acknowledged, the two-tier system that he talks about is skills that will enable them to take their place in university not something that the coalition Government are planning or in the modern workplace. That is why it was a to introduce, but something that the Labour Government disaster when language learning was dropped under the presided over and we want to tackle. The problem is previous Government, and why it is so welcome that the that we already have a two-tier GCSE system. As he coalition Government have seen it restored. acknowledged but then skated over, we have two types Some people will ask why, if performance in those of GCSE—foundation and higher tier—in English, maths core GCSEs that matter so much declined, the headline and science. We have a two-tier system of first-class and figures for GCSE performance improved under Labour? second-class qualifications. The higher tier allows anyone What was going on? What was filling that gap? The who takes a paper to get an A, B or C, and so on; the truth is that we had a growth in so-called equivalent foundation paper is explicitly designed to limit student exams, which were called vocational although most success. In ordinary circumstances, it is impossible for a employers did not rate them, and which were called student who enters for a foundation-tier paper to achieve equivalent to one or more GCSEs when most employers a grade higher than C. It is impossible, in other words, and colleges did not believe that they were. They have for thousands of students to achieve the most basic been eloquently criticised by the hon. Member for Stoke- grade that is respected by employers and will in many on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt), by the right hon. colleges allow them to progress to A-levels. The very act Member for Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough of entering a child for a foundation-tier paper at GCSE (Mr Blunkett) and by Professor Alison Wolf in her is a way of saying, “Don’t get above yourself—A-levels universally praised report on vocational qualifications. are not for you.” Even colleges that setaCgradeasan There was fantastic growth in low-level qualifications entry requirement often demand a grade C from a under Labour, most of which, she says, had higher-tier paper because they treat higher-tier and “little to no labour market value.” lower-tier GCSEs as separate qualifications. In 2004, students were taking just 15,000 of those A cap on aspiration was Labour’s policy for the qualifications, and then the Minister for Schools changed 13 years it was in power, and this coalition Government the rules. The then Minister for Schools is now the hon. are determined to remove that cap. 185 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 186

Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con): According We must not give up on children simply because they to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and have not reached an appropriate level at the age of 16. Development world rankings, between 2000 and 2009 That is why we are reforming post-16 education and this country fell from seventh to 25th in reading and why we are placing a requirement on students who have from eighth to 27th in mathematics. Without my right not secured those qualifications at the age of 16 to hon. Friend’s very welcome radicalism, we will find it secure them at 17 or 18. The generation that had been increasingly difficult to compete successfully in the global written off under Labour is at last, under the coalition economy. Government, receiving support.

Michael Gove: I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who Stephen Twigg: The Secretary of State said that the is absolutely correct that we need to have higher aspirations Government will abolish tiering in GCSEs. Will he for all students. That is why, in our forthcoming consultation clarify whether that is because 20% to 25% of students on how we can improve GCSEs and get world-class will take not O-levels, but the new CSE? qualifications, we will suggest that we end the tiering of papers and ensure that this barrier—this cap on Michael Gove: The hon. Gentleman, not for the first aspiration—is removed. That is genuine radicalism that time, has misunderstood. We want to ensure that more embodies greater aspiration for all students. After 13 years and more of our children do better and better. of Labour when there was a cap on aspiration, under There are two poles in this debate, neither of which I this coalition Government social mobility is at last am happy with. One pole holds that only a minority of advanced. about 20% or 25% will ever be able to pass academic qualifications—the A stream, the elite. The other view, Mr Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Lab): Given that practically which was incarnated in Labour education policy in the all the studies show that the differences between children past, is that to ensure that a majority of children pass when they are first sent to school at the age of five are the qualifications, we need to make them less demanding. not changed by schools of any nature or under any I reject both those views. I think that more children can exam system, why does the Secretary of State think that succeed if we make our exams more demanding, because the introduction of his proposed reforms will change we have a higher degree of aspiration and ambition for the life chances of the poorest children? all our children. Michael Gove: I think that their life chances can I understand why the right hon. Member for Liverpool, change. I usually agree with the right hon. Gentleman West Derby and other Opposition Members find it so on almost every issue, but in this area I differ with him. I difficult to grasp this point. Sorry, he is an hon. do not believe that birth or even the early years determine Gentleman—there is no cap on his aspiration or ambition. a child’s fate. I have seen children from very similar They find it difficult because the only way in which they backgrounds, often from troubled and chaotic homes, felt that they could succeed was to lower the bar. We go into primary schools and then on to secondary believe that it is by raising the bar that we can deal with schools with very different qualities of teaching and, as this issue. a result, have their outcomes transformed. The right hon. Gentleman has been a fantastic advocate for the Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Will the right hon. growth of the academies programme, including in his Gentleman give way? own constituency. His actions suggest to me that while he is, of course, as determined as I am to improve the Michael Gove: No, thank you. early years, he recognises that we can intervene at every We not only have a two-tier system in the split between stage to help children and young people to succeed. foundation and higher tier GCSEs, over which Labour presided— Mr Field: Of course we need to intervene at every stage as effectively as possible. While all of us, thank Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): You introduced it. goodness, have seen examples of children escaping their circumstances such as those he cites, the truth is that if Michael Gove: Quite right. I did not come into Parliament we look at students as classes we do not free whole to defend the status quo, unlike the small-c conservatives groups of pupils. opposite. I am a radical who believes in liberating human potential. It is interesting that the hon. Member Michael Gove: It is absolutely right that we make sure for Liverpool, West Derby and the hon. Member for that we recognise that children are individuals and that Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) are disciples of Keith teaching should, as far as possible, be personalised Joseph. I regard myself as being in a slightly more towards them. Children will not only have different radical, reforming, modern and liberal tradition than abilities in different subjects but will mature at different the late Member for Leeds North East, bless his soul. stages. As a reformer, it offends me not only that is there a That is one of the reasons why we wanted to ensure division incarnated in our state schools, but that independent that we developed qualifications that are not only without schools are opting for the IGCSE because the GCSE is the tiers that set a cap on aspiration but can be taken at not rigorous enough and that, as a result, there is a different points in a child’s career. At the moment, far two-tier system between state and independent schools. too many children fail to secure a GCSE pass in English There is also a two-tier system between this nation and and maths at the age of 16 and never manage to secure a other nations because other countries have more testing meaningful qualification in maths or English thereafter. examinations at the ages of 16, 17 and 18, whereas we We want to learn from Singapore, where students at the have incarnated low aspirations in the way in which we age of 16, then 17, and then 18, secure those passes. judge our young people. 187 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 188

Several hon. Members rose— the English baccalaureate to put a stress on rigorous subjects. It is not clear whether the Opposition agree Michael Gove: Un embarras de richesses, as they say with us. We have explicitly said that we believe there is a in west Derby! I give way to my hon. Friend the Member case for one exam board per subject in English, maths for Ealing Central and Acton (Angie Bray). and science. The Opposition inched towards agreeing with us, and I hope we can reach a consensus. Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con): As my One problem I have in attempting to tease out where right hon. Friend may know, Acton high school is about the Opposition stand in order to build the consensus we to open a sixth form. The most important thing for the all want is that whenever the Government put forward a students who study there is that we give them the best case for reform, it is difficult to know where the hon. possible start as they pursue their A-levels. Does he Member for Liverpool, West Derby stands. agree that more rigorous preparation, whether through an enhanced GCSE or an O-level, would help them to get through their A-levels and go on to university? Ms Gisela Stuart: The Secretary of State mentioned Alison Wolf. He wants to be the great radical, but he Michael Gove: My hon. Friend makes a characteristically must recognise that he needs to widen the skills base. He acute point. One problem with the current system is must show the House that he is attempting a dual that GCSEs are not, in many cases, adequate preparation system rather than a two-tier system if he prays in aid for A-levels, and A-levels are not adequate preparation Alison Wolf. for university, particularly when our students are compared with those from other jurisdictions. That is because, Michael Gove: I would never accuse the hon. Lady of notwithstanding the incremental improvement in state falling into the fatalist camp, but some do. The fatalist education over the past 15 years, other countries have position—that we cannot improve—was touched on by reformed their education systems faster than we have my hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness reformed ours. We have to match them and that means (Mr Stuart), the Chair of the Education Committee, reform. but I believe Andrew Adonis, who said: “The fatalists who say”—[Interruption.] As Front Benchers say, “If Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): the cap on aspiration fits, wear it.” Will the Secretary of State give way? Andrew Adonis has said: “The fatalists who say that countries with strong academic Michael Gove: I am happy to give way to the Chairman school traditions cannot create, in a short timescale, quality of the Select Committee on Education. vocational education institutions and pathways with real prestige should take note. It is being done abroad and must be done here.” Mr Stuart: The Secretary of State wants more rigorous It is being done here through the introduction of university exams that more people pass. That is an aspiration that technical colleges, and through the development of we would all share, but it is not immediately obvious studio schools, which were introduced by the Government how it is to be brought about. Today, 42% of children of Andrew Adonis and expanded massively by this one. do not get five good GCSEs including English and It is also being done with a review of vocational maths. If we make the tests more difficult, it is not qualifications, which will mean that apprenticeships are immediately obvious how more people will pass them. I at last possessed of the rigour that all hon. Members welcome that he is aiming higher and that we will have might expect, but which did not happen under the more rigour, but we need more detail. He is very good at previous Government. Thanks to the Minister for Further explaining what is wrong with what Labour did, and I Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, we have extended agree with every word, but he is not so good at giving us a requirement so that all apprenticeships will be for the detail of precisely what this Government plan to do. 12 rather than just six months. We have also extended the important work-related learning in apprenticeships. Michael Gove: It is perfectly clear what we need to do I acknowledge that there are improvements to be made, to get more children to pass more exams: we must press but the Holt and Richard reviews will ensure that we ahead with the reforms that we have introduced to make them. create more academies and free schools, to get better teachers in our schools, to have continuous professional If those improvements are to be enduring and if we development in which we invest in the very best people, are to succeed, if the university technical colleges and to expand the Teach First programme, and to ensure studio schools are to succeed and take root, and if the that we have a relentless focus on raising the bar. changes we are making in the academies programme Complacency on performance in our schools will lead are to succeed, such as the welcome addition of the us only to continue to be backmarkers. One point I Liverpool college—an independent fee-paying school—to would make to the Chair of the Education Committee the state sector, which was welcomed graciously by the and the House is that some schools manage to do every hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby, we need, as bit as well as schools in Singapore by getting 80% or Andrew Adonis pointed out today, a consensus in the more of their students to five good GCSEs or equivalents. House. We should ask ourselves why more schools are not In calling this debate, the hon. Gentleman has asked doing as well as them. The whole point of the Government’s Parliament to approve certain propositions. Let us try education reforms is to ensure that we raise standards to approve certain propositions on where Labour stands for all. on critical issues. The Chair of the Committee asked what the Government will do to change things. We have already taken some Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): It’s steps. We have banned modules and resits, and introduced not about Labour; it’s about you. 189 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 190

Michael Gove: It is about the House. When the hon. languages in 2004, he said: “I had mixed views.” Given Member for Liverpool, West Derby was interviewed this lack of consistency, can we be certain that his just a couple of weeks ago, he was asked about academies. position now, in backing modern foreign languages, is a He said that one of the freedoms Labour extended to consistent one? And will he assent to our other proposals? academies is freedom over the curriculum. He said we Does he believe that we should get rid of modules at should extend that to all schools. He is therefore for the GCSE and end the re-sit culture? Yes or no? A simple academies programme. In the same interview, however, nod will suffice. [Interruption.] No, he is not going to he said: “We have now got 2,000 schools that are get into it. No consistency! He is uncertain. Is he for it, academies. I do not think that is desirable. I do not or against it? What about the English baccalaureate? think that is a good system.” He was for our academies All he needs to do is nod. Will he support the English programme before he was against it. baccalaureate? We know that the hon. Member for Andrew Adonis was quoted as saying that free schools Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) and were Labour’s invention. When the hon. Gentleman for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) do. was asked about free schools, he said: “Yes, free schools are being established, some of which will be excellent.” Tristram Hunt rose— So he was asked, “Will you create any more?”, and he replied, “That we need to look at. We need to look at Michael Gove: Does the hon. Gentleman support the that.” It was then put to him that, in fact, before EBacc? Yes or no? looking at the policy, he had voted against it. Tristram Hunt: I support the English baccalaureate. Stephen Twigg: May I explain? But my question is this: does the Secretary of State think the Daily Mail reported his intended reforms Michael Gove: Yes, in a minute. accurately and fully? The hon. Gentleman then said, “Our policy was to oppose free schools, and we voted against them.” So he Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman was for it before he looked at it and before he was for supporting the English baccalaureate. The frock-coated against it. Perhaps he might now illuminate the House communist has become the grey-suited radical. One of on his position towards free schools—position 1, in the things that matters to me is whether the hon. favour; position 2, don’t know; or position 3, against? Member for Liverpool, West Derby supports the English baccalaureate. Yes or no? [HON.MEMBERS: “Answer the Stephen Twigg: If the Secretary of State wants to ask question.”] After my appearance at Leveson, it probably me questions, we can always swap places. I would be ill behoves me to pass commentary on the press in this happy to swap places and answer his questions, but this country, other than to say that I support the right of a is a debate where he has to defend his position. Lord free and rigorous press to report and comment on Adonis, whom he mentioned, has been clear in the past things with their usually pungency. few days about what he thinks of the Government’s Does the hon. Gentleman support our position on latest proposals to bring back CSEs. Will the Secretary equivalents? Does he support stripping them out of the of State rule out bringing back a new version of the CSE? school system?

Michael Gove: I have explained exactly what we will Stephen Twigg rose— do, which is to strengthen GCSEs and world-class qualifications. Nothing we want to do is a step backwards; Michael Gove: A simple yes or no will do. everything we want to do is a step towards the high-class qualifications that other countries have. I have ruled out Stephen Twigg: I know that the right hon. Gentleman as clearly as I can any two-tier system. I have said that wants everything to be black and white, but sometimes we want to move to one tier and a set of high-level there is nuance in these debates. One of the equivalents qualifications. I can bring clarity to the Government’s I certainly do not support—this is the issue I tried to position but not to the Opposition’s. intervene on earlier—is changing some of the diplomas, including the engineering diploma. The excellent JCB Stephen Twigg rose— academy, the first universal technical college, has lobbied me strongly to say that it disagrees with how the Michael Gove: No, no. Government have downgraded the engineering diploma. We want to know whether, as we make changes to the There is a real risk that vocational and practical subjects curriculum, the hon. Gentleman will back us on modern will be crowded out of our schools at a time when we foreign languages, for example. need more young people getting good qualifications in engineering and other areas. Stephen Twigg: I have done. Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman Michael Gove: The hon. Gentleman says yes, but his for answering about one of the more than 1,700 vocational position on modern foreign languages has changed over qualifications. So he supports the engineering diploma time. As I pointed out, he said in July 2004: being an equivalent. Does he support nail technology “In the knowledge society of the 21st century language competence” or horse husbandry or any of the others? Again, answer is “essential.” Then, in September 2004, he said, “We comes there none. don’t want to go back to the old days when we tried to The hon. Gentleman says that there is nuance in his force feed languages to students.” Then, when he was position. I say, rather than nuance, there is an absence asked in May 2011 what his real position had been on of clarity, without which we cannot secure consensus. 191 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 192

Does he believe that we should continue with foundation accountability measures. We will ensure as a result of and higher-tier GCSEs? Yes or no? A simple nod would these changes that the drift towards mediocrity that the suffice. Again, answer comes there none, but we probably last Government’s qualification system incarnated is know what he thinks. When he was a Minister in the finally addressed. Department for Education and Skills in 2003, the “Excellence and Opportunity” White Paper said: Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): I “the GCSE has become a qualification at two levels: Level 2 applaud the measures my right hon. Friend has taken (or grades A*–C) is viewed by the public as success, while Level 1 more greatly to value spelling, punctuation and grammar. (or grades D–G) is seen as failure. For many young people achieving Level 1 is demotivating. Some young people prefer not In that respect, does he share my concern about a to reveal that they have taken GCSEs than admit to a lower grade. school I came across recently whose policy was to This undermines motivation and discourages staying on”. correct no more than three spelling mistakes in any That was the view of the hon. Gentleman and his piece of work? Does he agree with me that that is a false Department in 2003, but they took no action to deal kindness to children who might put in with a CV a with the problem. At last, 10 years later, the coalition covering letter with spelling mistakes, which is then put Government are taking action to end the problem of in the bin with the child’s potential being wasted? failure, to ensure that we no longer have an examination system that is demotivating and to end a system that Michael Gove: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. discourages staying on. One change we have already made to GCSEs—again, I do not know whether or not the Opposition back it—is Nia Griffith: Does the Secretary of State accept that to reintroduce marks for spelling, punctuation and grammar with the foundation and higher-tier system there was so that all students know that rigour is demanded at always the opportunity for pupils to transfer, and there every point. was always a motivation to try to drive pupils to get During the course of this debate—including the speeches better thanaDbygetting a C? How will the new system from the Front Bench and subsequently—we have not of separating a CSE and an O-level examination allow a heard a single constructive proposal from the Opposition pupil to be pushed so that they can attain the higher on how to change exams. By contrast, the coalition level—the O-level qualification—if they have already Government have spelled out steps to ensure that more started on a CSE syllabus, which is significantly different? students take more rigorous subjects; steps to ensure that we deal with a race to the bottom and the wrong Michael Gove: I have to ask the hon. Lady where she type of competition; steps to ensure that we remove a has been for most of this debate. At no stage have we cap on aspiration; steps to ensure that we match the quality talked about separating children at the age of 14, and at of the International GCSE and Singapore O-levels. no stage— Several hon. Members rose— Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab) rose— Michael Gove: I shall not take any more interventions Michael Gove: I am delighted to give way to the hon. at this stage. Lady. The reason for doing that is that we need to ensure that our curriculum and qualifications system moves on Liz Kendall: The Secretary of State is supposed to be from being one that, as I mentioned earlier, has been a man of his convictions. Parents and pupils in my trapped by two opposing and equally out-of-date views: constituency want to know whether the Daily Mail either that only a minority can succeed, or that, for a report was accurate—yes or no? majority to succeed, we have to lower the bar. I believe we can ensure that more children succeed by ensuring Michael Gove: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for that the policies of the coalition Government are asking her question. I am a man of my convictions, and implemented with vigour and energy. That is why we my convictions are that we need to improve our GCSE need to press ahead with the academies programme, it is system. That is why we have outlined proposals that will why we need to invest more in Teach First, and it is why ensure that we change the way in which children sit we need the changes in education for children with qualifications at the age of 16. In place of a two-tier special educational needs that are being introduced by system, with GCSEs split between foundation and higher- the Minister of State, Department for Education, my tier, we will have one qualification for all students. In hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather). place of competing exam boards where there is a race to For all those reasons, I commend the amendment to the bottom instituted under the Labour Government, the House, and I look forward to the vote. we will have exam boards that will be asked to compete to go to the top, and all those exam boards will be asked to produce qualifications that are more rigorous. Several hon. Members rose— Instead of 60% of students being assumed to succeed and 40% being written off, we will set a benchmark Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): As all whereby at least 80% and a rising proportion of students Members can see, many of them wish to take part in the succeed over time. Instead of a flight away from rigorous debate. We will not be able to fit everyone in without a subjects like history, geography and modern foreign time limit, so all Back-Bench contributions will be languages, physics, chemistry and biology, we will ensure limited to seven minutes. If interventions slow us down that those subjects are incentivised in league tables and even further, it may be necessary to shorten that limit. 193 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 194

5.15 pm failed to tell us that in Singapore seven out of eight children have up to three hours of additional tuition Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I think that every day paid for by the parents, over and above the we must give the Secretary of State’s speech eight out of tuition that is received in schools. So again, like is not 10 for style, but nought out of 10 for content. It was a being measured with like. He also failed to tell us that very good speech which, I am afraid, did not deal with the Singapore system is one of the most centralist the issue in hand at all. The Secretary of State was education systems in the world, where the Minister for asked on numerous occasions whether the Daily Mail education dictates what is taught, how it is taught and had reported him correctly, and he was completely when it is taught. It goes so far that head teachers do evasive. He was asked again and again how the abolition not even apply for places in schools; they are allocated a of GCSEs would raise the bar, and I have to say that his school and they are moved on every three years—and responses were divisive, evasive and at times even destructive. they have no say whatever about which school they What is so important about GCSEs is that they are move on to. examinations for all pupils of all abilities. They were In using Singapore to provide evidence for his plans, introduced in 1988 by Margaret Thatcher and Kenneth the Secretary of State is comparing our state-funded, Baker in response to huge unhappiness, largely among diverse, teacher-led, innovative, autonomous system with parents. Those of us who were in the education system a broad and balanced curriculum that caters for all at that time will remember that it was middle-class children up to the age of 16 and beyond with an almost parents whose children were sent to underfunded secondary Soviet-style centralised system where education is not moderns and forced down the route of CSEs who free, compulsion ends at 11 years of age and there is a brought about the abolition of CSEs and the introduction highly restrictive curriculum. That is not measuring like of the GCSEs that we have now, which have brought with like. together the best of what was in the CSEs and the old O-levels. The Secretary of State also looked for his evidence base to polls telling him that parents want to see a That approach was welcomed by the whole education return to O-levels. He may well cite the recent YouGov community, but it seems likely that it will be abolished poll that shows that 60% of those who are old enough on the say-so of the Secretary of State, who has apparently to have sat the old O-level want to see a return to a not consulted anyone on his proposal. As far as I am two-tier system. However, that is what we would expect aware, there has been no consultation with pupils, parents, from any poll that asked questions of people over 40; teachers or the wider education community. The Secretary they hanker back to what they know. The YouGov poll of State convened a two-year curriculum review group also shows, however, that 40% of those who sat O-levels consisting of the great and the good to consider the do not want to see a return to a two-tier system, and issue of the curriculum, but appears subsequently to that 65% of those who took GCSEs do not want to see have completely ignored everything said by that group, a return to a two-tier system either. choosing instead to develop an education policy that has no evidence base and is founded on personal prejudice. I accept that the system we have is not perfect, but I do not believe that the answer is to return to qualifications So what is the evidence behind the Secretary of that were designed a lifetime ago for a world that no State’s review? We have heard a lot from him about our longer exists in which children without qualifications cascading down the OECD PISA scales for English, were able to find jobs in low-skill industries—in factories, maths and science. I am sorry, but no matter how many mines, shipbuilding, steel-making and agriculture. That times he says that, it is simply not true. In the three world no longer exists. Today’s young people need skills years leading up to 2007 many more countries entered that were not previously taught: resilience and reasoning their data in the PISA tables, so the outcomes in 2007 skills, negotiation skills, team-working, speaking skills, did not measure like with like. When the Secretary of interpersonal skills. Those are the skills that employers State talks of cascading down the scales, what he is are telling the Education Committee that they need. really talking about are a couple of percentage points in They are taught in private schools; we should be making a table that would now include many more countries time for them in our state schools. than it did at the time when it was last drawn up. That is not measuring like with like. If the Secretary of State In designing our state education system, we should were a teacher instead of a journalist looking for the say, “If it’s not good enough for my child, it’s not good best negative headline, he would understand that. enough for your child.” That should be our guiding principle in designing an education system, rather than, The Secretary of State used Singapore for his evidence “Outcomes for some at the expense of others.” base. The Education Committee visited Singapore last year just to see what was happening there. It must be said that there are many good things in the Singapore 5.22 pm system, but what he failed to tell us was that in Singapore Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): education is not free, and is not compulsory for children It is a pleasure to take part in this debate, and to rebut beyond the age of 11. When PISA measures the outcomes allegations of fatalism thrown at me by the Secretary of of 16-year-olds in England against those of 16-year-olds State. I hope I am no more of a fatalist than he is. I have in Singapore, it is measuring the outcomes of all 16-year- observed in many of our debates that able politicians, olds in England against those of some 16-year-olds in on both sides of the House, are brilliant at describing Singapore. Again, like is not being measured with like. and critiquing the inheritance from the Labour party In Singapore the curriculum is restricted to English, and at painting a picture of the kind of country we maths and science, and there is no creativity whatsoever. would like to be, but our job in this House is to address Here we have a broad, advanced curriculum. Again, like the third aspect and examine the route map to get from is not being measured with like. The Secretary of State position A—not very good—to position B, or nirvana 195 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 196 and where we want to be. Too often in our education and various other ways of cutting it. We have concluded debates in this Chamber, we spend an awful lot of time our report, but because of the examination season— on aspects one and two, and not a lot on the third whoever leaked this story to the press last week was aspect. obviously less sensitive than us to the fact that children Following the Secretary of State’s speech, I am a little were taking exams—we decided to delay the publication clearer about what his plans are. I think he has said—I of our report until 3 July. So, I am afraid that, until hope he will intervene on me if I am incorrect—that the then, I cannot engage in that issue. However, we have Daily Mail was mistaken, and that there is not going to looked at it in depth, and I hope I am not in contempt be a return to a two-tier system. He did not, for whatever of Parliament if I say that the Committee came up with reason, try to spell this out, but it sounded as if he was a unanimous recommendation and report. I hope that talking about a more rigorous GCSE. It is progress that those on both sides of the House will wait until at least the Labour spokesman, the hon. Member for Liverpool, 3 July before allowing any of their opinions to solidify West Derby (Stephen Twigg), acknowledges that there further. was grade inflation during his party’s time in office, and If the Secretary of State is talking about a more the Secretary of State makes powerful points about rigorous GCSE system—whether it is given a new name equivalences. The Government have certainly had my or not—which is effectively a single examination system, support in tackling that and in tightening up in various as we have now, that would rather destroy the entire ways, such as by removing entirely the vocational premise of my speech, leaving me short for words. qualifications that Alison Wolf identified as offering no real labour value to people. Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): Time for a So what is the vision? If we were just talking about a coffee. more rigorous GCSE with a removal of the perverse incentives to dumb down over time—it has now been Mr Stuart: Time for a coffee and to let others speak. acknowledged that that was the case, even by Labour—I However, over the last two years the Government think there would almost be cross-House consensus. have made a series of announcements looking to put There is a recognition by Labour that it did not get greater rigour into the system. They announced the everything right, even if Labour Members cannot quite ending of modularisation of GCSEs, tackling the culture bring themselves to say that yet; it is fair enough for the of re-sits, ending equivalences and promoting the English Secretary of State to tease the shadow Secretary of baccalaureate, which, of course, rewards those students State for his failure to do so. It seems that the Labour who achieve good GCSEs in English, maths, two sciences, party is beginning to recognise that a lot of the Secretary a language and either history or geography. However, at of State’s moves towards rigour have been correct. the end of that process, if the leak is to be believed—I However, if we are to have a beefed-up GCSE, and if we am in a state of confusion now—they suddenly announced are not moving towards a system that is more two-tier the scrapping of GCSEs altogether. That does not seem than what we have now, I would like to see more detail. I terribly coherent. know that a consultation paper is coming, but it seems disappointing that we did not get more detail from the Just last June the Secretary of State said the following Secretary of State today. about GCSEs: “So next year the floor will rise to 40 per cent and my Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con) rose— aspiration is that by 2015 we will be able to raise it to 50 per cent. There is no reason—if we work together—that by the end of this Mr Stuart: I give way to my hon. Friend. parliament every young person in the country can’t be educated in a school where at least half of students reach this basic academic Dr Lewis: I am very grateful to the Chairman of the standard.” Education Committee for giving me the opportunity to He went on to say: ask the question that I was hoping to ask of the “A GCSE floor standard is about providing a basic minimum Secretary of State. Given that both sides now seem to expectation to young people that their school will equip them for accept that there has been a problem of grade inflation, further education and employment.” could we pay a little bit of attention to the marks that That was the direction of travel then; suddenly, a year underlie the grades? One of the problems that I felt later—if we are to believe the Daily Mail—that has many years ago with the introduction of grades for been scrapped. On the other hand, if I understood O-levels, rather than marks, was that it did not matter if correctly what the Secretary of State said today, that somebody got 70%, 80% or 90%: anybody who reached was an entirely false idea and there is no plan to do such a certain level—70%, I think—still got the same top a thing at all. grade. This was the beginning of an inflationary process. Would not the stating of actual marks— Kevin Brennan: I think we are all trying to decipher Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo): Thank what the Secretary of State said. Is it the hon. Gentleman’s you. That is quite enough. That is a very long intervention understanding that the Secretary of State said that he in a very short debate. would expect 80% of pupils to sit this new single-paper GCSE, and if so, what does he think ought to happen Mr Stuart: Fortunately, my hon. Friend takes me to to the other 20%? the issue I wanted to address next, which is the administration of examinations. Unfortunately, however, Mr Stuart: As I have said, I think that increased I am unable to comment on that now. The Education rigour throughout the system is necessary and important. Committee has conducted a long inquiry into precisely I think that the accountability system for schools needs that issue, looking at the trade-offs between a single to be changed so that it does not have perverse outcomes, board, competition between boards, franchising by subject such as putting people on courses that lead nowhere but 197 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 198

[Mr Graham Stuart] results. Just one in 10 pupils taking GCSEs at the school scored five grade Cs or better, while the truancy rate allow the institution to meet its benchmark—we on the was running at more than 10 times the national average. Committee have been critics of that for some time. I was therefore very proud when last Friday New College Perhaps the announcement, or the leak, suggests a was named by the Specialist Schools and Academies change in view by the Secretary of State on that front. Trust as being in the top 10% of improving schools in If we look across the system, where we need more the country. The number of children getting five A to C rigour and we need to ensure that we end the perverse grades at GCSE including in English and Maths has incentives, we find that the biggest problem we face in a gone up by 450%, and the number getting five A to C global knowledge economy, where the first rung of the grades overall has gone up by a staggering 700%. ladder keeps rising up, is what we do about people who Jane Brown, the head teacher at New College, says are not getting those basic skills and that basic education. that three key things have helped it to achieve those The Government have two priorities for education: phenomenal results, and that the first and foremost is raising standards for all; and closing the gap. Those having the right teachers—moving on those who were are right, but when setting priorities it is terribly important not up to scratch and replacing them with the very best. to show what the top priority is. I am yet to understand The second thing is the focus and financial support how the changes specifically will help the least able, from the national challenge programme, which has enabled but then again I am unclear as to what exactly the New College to get external support, including from the proposal is—even if I have not quite fallen to the level ex-head of education at Nottingham, and pay for additional of the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), resources, such as tutors to give intense one-on-one who of course got so confused about percentages last week. support in English and Maths. The third thing is not allowing the school to get blown off track by different Kevin Brennan: I did get a grade A O-level— Government initiatives, and instead focusing consistently and relentlessly on what really matters to help children Mr Stuart: That is a lot better than I did, so I will learn, aspire and achieve. The teachers, support staff, leave it there. volunteers and students at New College deserve huge Ofqual now has a statutory duty to ensure two things, congratulations on their hard work, commitment and one of which is that we maintain standards over time. success. Although they are rightly proud of their We shall see whether it does its job right; it is relatively achievements, they are not complacent, and they are newly empowered and we need to give it the chance to determined to make even greater improvements in the see whether it can reverse this grade inflation and keep future. us up there with our international competition. Has it I have spoken to Jane and to some of the other heads said that there needs to be a restructuring of the examination at secondary schools in Leicester West about the Secretary system, not necessarily the administration of it, but the of State’s plans—or, at least, reported plans—to change whole quality of it and the possible tiering of it? I GCSEs. They think—and I agree—that a single exam would like to hear from the Secretary of State about that. board could be a positive step to help tackle unhelpful I have only a minute left, so I shall finish by repeating competition between exam boards and stop some heads that the central problem is what we do about the young thinking, “Which exam will get the best results for my people, all too many of whom are now not in education, school?” rather than, “How can we give our students employment or training—NEET—and are being left the best education for life?” Achieving A grades in behind. A more rigorous system is great, but the only GCSEs should be really demanding, and with a single way to raise standards ultimately—this is the only thing syllabus there is no reason that cannot be achieved. that matters in education—is through quality of teaching. That is something we should be considering. We need to ensure consistent, high-quality teaching and Jane and the other heads do not support a return to a an excellent institution for everyone, everywhere. At the two-tier system where children are told at age 14 what moment, there are all sorts of incentives in the accountability they can and cannot achieve. Telling some children system to focus on borderline pupils at the expense of before they have had a chance fully to develop that they those at the bottom, and within the system for people to are not good enough to do O-levels will not boost their move from a school that is very challenging to one in self-esteem, but crush it. Telling them they can manage the leafier suburbs—a much more congenial place for only CSEs, which will inevitably be a less valued many people to teach in. We need to look at re-gearing qualification, will not raise their achievement, but cap our whole system in a way that the Labour Government it. We should not be putting a ceiling on children’s failed to do, despite efforts in that direction, to ensure aspirations; we should be blasting those ceilings away. that we provide opportunity for all, because both socially and economically we cannot afford to have so many This proposal is a terribly backwards step from a children left behind, unable to get on the first rung of Secretary of State who does not seem to understand the economic ladder and thus be full members of our what it takes to help children from chronically deprived society. If any proposals from the Secretary of State are backgrounds to aspire and achieve. Jane Brown, who driven by that central insight, he can certainly look has proved through her hard work and effort what can forward to my support. and must be done to turn schools around, says labelling children as failures so early would be disastrous. Instead of helping schools such as New College, which have created 5.32 pm a “yes you can, yes you will” culture for all the students Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab): In 2006, New all the way through to the end of year 11, the Government’s College school in my constituency was the worst secondary proposals will return us to the days when some children school in England for truancy, the worst in the value-added ended up believing that they could not and that they league tables, and fifth from bottom overall for GCSE were failures, particularly if they came from very 199 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 200 disadvantaged backgrounds. That is why I urge the Fourthly—this sounds a bit dull and technical but it is Government, in the strongest possible terms, to rethink very important—there is the statistical tolerance in the their plans. If the Secretary of State would like to visit results. Every year, there is rightly a normalisation New College and see what it really takes to turn around to say what results, for example, a key stage 4 cohort a school that was in a terrible state some years ago, so should get relative to what they achieved at key stage 2, that it is now doing really well for the people I was with perhaps a 1% tolerance either way on a finding—but elected to represent, I am sure that he would be welcomed. of course the tolerance only ever goes up. That is the most pure form of grade inflation. 5.37 pm Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con): Youngpeople Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): The hon. are working harder in our schools than ever before, Gentleman is making these points about how people guided by probably the best ever generation of teachers. work within the rules to maximise the effect, but even Certainly, lessons are planned and progress tracked in a when I was at school there were children who were way that it never was when most of us were at school. thought to be marginal when it came to getting an Young people are also examined more, at considerable O-level and were dissuaded because it was thought that cost to our schools—the average cost of exams to they would skew the results and do the school down. maintained secondary schools was £44,000 in 2003 and Let us not pretend that this is something new. £96,000 by 2010. Those pupils and teachers are being let down by a system that has allowed the erosion of Damian Hinds: The hon. Gentleman is very youthful confidence in their qualifications. looking but I am not sure the league tables were in place There is massive pressure on schools, as we all know, when he was at school, so I find that point slightly confusing. from the five-plus C-plus measurement in league tables. Although it is true, as many right hon. and hon. Members Does it matter that there has been grade inflation? I have said, that there have been real improvements in think we have all heard from higher education institutions, educational attainment, it is also true that ever since employers in our constituencies and members of the those league table ladders were created, ingenious schools public that it does matter. One witness who gave evidence have found ever more ingenious ways of getting up to the Education Committee’s exams inquiry said they them, aided and abetted by public policy and the exams did not believe that employers expect to be able to industry, with things such as double awards, short courses, compare exam results over time, but I have news for half GCSEs, new subjects and, of course, the granddaddy him: that is exactly what employers, higher education of them all, equivalents, which make a 19 percentage institutions and parents expect to be able to do, and point difference in the league tables. If equivalents are quite justifiably so. However, the system does not support included, 75% of children get five or more GCSEs at them in doing that. Although there have been many grade C or above, but that goes down to 56% if those factors at play with grade inflation, there are three root equivalents are taken out. causes among which there is interplay: the pressure on schools to deliver the results; the competitive land grab Like economic growth, improvements in grade have for volume market share on behalf of the competing both a real part and an inflationary part. The real exam boards; and a too malleable system that attempts growth comes from better teaching, better teachers and to put everything on a single scale when everything does more engaged parents, and I think we have see ample not necessarily fit together. evidence of those things. I think we have moved on a good way in this debate. Gloria De Piero: In that case, would the hon. Gentleman Over the past few days, the phrase we have heard most listen to a maths teacher from my constituency and the often on this subject has been about not wanting to 11th most improved school in the country from 2012, return to a two-tier system, but increasingly there is a who says: recognition that there are two tiers now, with 40% of “The current GCSE system allows every pupil to achieve youngsters being left behind. One could even argue that beyond their potential and is fully recognised by employers regardless there is a third tier, with the young people who are put of tier”? on to other qualifications that are of so little value to them in later life. Even in the purer sense, within a Damian Hinds: I am always happy to hear from single-subject GCSE there are the two tiers of the distinguished maths teachers, but I am not quite sure foundation level and the higher level. Although this has how the hon. Lady’s intervention relates to or contradicts been talked about much today, it is in many ways the what I just said. I was saying that there have clearly been best kept secret in education. I keep finding, when I talk real improvements, but I do not think there is anyone to the parents of 14 and 15-year-old pupils, that they left, including that distinguished maths teacher, who are not aware of that distinction. In many ways O-levels doubts that on top of those real improvements there and CSEs never went away—they were just rebranded, has been significant grade inflation, as acknowledged but into one thing. by the shadow Secretary of State. Let us take the example of GCSE maths. If someone There are four key elements to the grade inflation. is entered for GCSE maths at foundation level, that First, there has been the gradual easing of what we used decision will be taken when they are in year 10 and the to call the syllabus—now called the specification—on highest grade they can then achieve is a grade C. That the part of the exam board. Secondly, at the school end, sounds very much like getting a CSE grade 1 in the there has been teaching to the test. Thirdly, there have 1980s. And it is not just maths. Other subjects that are been all sorts of elements in the design of examinations, tiered include biology, physics, chemistry, general science, including modularity or what is now called unitising, classical civilisation, Latin, English literature, English early takes, re-sits, the use of calculators and so on. language, geography and modern foreign languages— 201 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 202

[Damian Hinds] the shiver that went down my spine as I did my 11-plus and nor will many others. The truth is that that system almost every one of the core academic subjects that failed too many of our young people, and 20 years as an most of us did at school, with the single exception of Open university tutor taught me that the backs of many history. of the people who came to a second chance with the Open university were scarred by that experience. Liz Kendall: Will the hon. Gentleman explain how When the shadow Secretary of State, my hon. Friend having O-levels and CSEs would make that two-tier the Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg), system better? talks about a cap on aspiration, he is absolutely right. In 2010, the Secretary of State said that Dickens and other Damian Hinds: I have a great deal of respect for the authors should be studied in English lessons to improve hon. Lady, who is an erstwhile colleague of ours on the young people’s grasp of the English language. As this is Select Committee, but I am not proposing a return to the year of Dickens, perhaps the right hon. Gentleman anything from the past. What we must do is build an will reflect on the words of the Ghost of Christmas exam and qualification system that is fit for the future Present to Scrooge in “A Christmas Carol”: and reflects the new reality in which the participation age is 18, not 16. We must make sure that all young “Oh God. to hear the Insect on the leaf pronouncing on the people can reach their potential at 15 to 16 and that if too much life among his hungry brothers in the dust.” they have not done so by that point, particularly in key It is the hungry brothers and hungry sisters in the dust subjects such as English and Maths, they go on to do so we need to be concerned with. at 16 to 18 and beyond. The Secretary of State ducked elegantly around the subject, but I know how important GCSEs have been in Nia Griffith: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? my Blackpool constituency—an area with low skills and historically modest academic achievements. They Damian Hinds: I am sorry, but I am running very give students the ability to bridge the academic and short of time. vocational divide and to develop skills in creative, leisure There is a bunch of complications in this two-tier and tourism activities that are vital to keep people in the system—for example, it applies to some subjects but not local economy, and the flexibility of mind that comes others, and there are even subjects for which students from coursework as well as exams. What use to them can enter one paper at foundation level and still score a would CSEs be? What use, for example, would CSEs be grade B or A. There might be good reasons for all that, in special schools? That is another aspect the Secretary but one thing this system is not is clear. I understand the of State should take into account. argument that all must have prizes, and in some ways that seems like a good thing, but it does young people My hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State rightly no favours to kid them that the worth of the qualifications referred to the comments by Chris Cook in the Financial they are taking is greater than it really is. Instead, we Times and I shall not expand on them, except to say must strive so that all merit prizes. We should aspire to that Mr Cook made the important point: the vast majority of children getting those key subjects “Take a look at the belt from Liverpool to Hull—the CSE aged 15 and 16, but as I said in reply to the hon. towns of tomorrow.” Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), there must be Blackpool will be one of those towns and I have no wish the facility to return to them at age 16 to 18. One of the to see it go into the Secretary of State’s pot. key points in the Wolf report was the lack of post-16 focus in our country compared with others on English The Secretary of State says he is a man of convictions, and maths in particular—subjects that command a and I agree. He is guilty as charged, and the charges huge premium in the workplace. should include the following: scrapping vocational diplomas in the system regardless of the lack of concrete plans to Mr Graham Stuart: Will my hon. Friend give way? involve business in the curriculum; introducing an English baccalaureate that gave no space to vocational education; Damian Hinds: I am sorry, but I cannot. creating havoc in the careers system by taking £200 million out of face-to-face communication; failing to have any For our country, we need world-class exams to win in policies on the sort of life skills and communication the fiercely competitive new global economy. For our skills that were discussed earlier; and not listening to his young people, we need worthwhile qualifications with colleagues in other Departments, not least the Minister the right breadth, depth and usefulness that will serve for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, them well in their work and in their life. on vocational issues. The Secretary of State spoke about world skills. Would the WorldSkills people who won 5.45 pm gold medals for Britain last October benefit under his two-tier system? Absolutely not. Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): The Secretary of State ducked and dived round the Daily Like Robert Louis Stevenson, the Secretary of State Mail’s ring like a bantamweight, but that did not disguise was born in Edinburgh. Perhaps that explains why, the fact that he has still not this afternoon come out and from time to time, he appears to resemble one of Robert denied the newspaper’s central thesis of a return to Louis Stevenson’s famous characters, Jekyll and Hyde. CSEs. The reality of a return to a form of CSEs and a One day he can craft an eloquent paean to vocational form of selection is a return to educational apartheid. aspiration, but the next day he talks about micro- The Secretary of State, like many others, including me, management, which is not what we want to hear. Young went through a selective system and did well out of it; people and schools are not train sets to be broken up we went there and got the T-shirt, but I will never forget every few years and re-arranged in a different pattern. 203 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 204

Both the Secretary of State and his Minister of State, If we are to consider the key points of the debate, we the hon. Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton should look at what was floated in that esteemed publication (Mr Gibb) sit on the Front Bench like relics from the as a bid to end the GCSE and restore the O-level and a past. As Talleyrand said of the Bourbons, they have qualification equivalent to the CSE. It is a little like forgotten nothing and they have learned nothing. They those debates about selection, in which one hears a lot have forgotten nothing about the failures of the past, about grammar schools but not so much about secondary but they have learned nothing, as is clear from the way moderns. That is not to say that there are not excellent they wish to turn back the clock. schools out there which are now no doubt called The Secretary of State spoke of being a radical and comprehensives or academies, but which once upon a spoke in the tone of a mad Maoist. I do not know if it is time were known as secondary moderns. They are doing possible to be a mad Maoist Bourbon, but he is making good work in areas where selection still exists, but that it a passable attempt at it. I do not know whether it is a not a position that my party would seek to push forward. leadership manoeuvre or the latest quaffing of the I was delighted to hear the Secretary of State at the potion from R L Stevenson that turns him periodically Dispatch Box talking about a thorough examination of into Mr Hyde. I do not know and, frankly, I do not care. the GCSE, what it is, what it offers, how testing it is of What I care about passionately, as all Members of the young people, and its ability to stretch young people at House should, is that the life chances of hundreds of all levels of ability, so that we celebrate the fact that not thousands of our young people should not be jeopardised everyone will get an A*, and for those who were at one by his “Mad Monk” half-hours. time predicted to get an F in some subject but who If the Secretary of State wants to look at reforming manage to get a D, that is a real success for them. GCSEs, at the balance between coursework and examinations, and how we make GCSEs work properly, Mr Graham Stuart: We are raising the participation we can help him with that. He could do worse than age by looking to use the extra years up to 17 and 18 to turn, for example, to my hon. Friend the Member for deliver a basic and rigorous standard. The most successful Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), who has done a great state school in the country, which I think is Lawrence deal of work in this area. Sheriff school in Rugby, uses a three-year course for its We should be building bridges in education, not GCSEs and gets a tremendously high level of success. burning them. We should be offering young people, as Perhaps it would be helpful to find out more about how we offer others, every opportunity to show that they can education can be structured so that children can keep deploy a variety of skills, not putting them into blocks on learning until they get to that very high standard. on the line or forcing them into second-class status. I yield to no one in pursuing academic excellence, seeing Dan Rogerson: The Chairman of the Select Committee the strengths of traditional education, stretching young said that he had to rewrite his speech. He has clearly people and not soft-landing them, but we want an been doing that and has made an additional contribution education system that combines the best of traditional to the debate. I welcome his intervention. strengths with an understanding of how we need to The debate is about how we can ensure that all young relate to a modern world of green skills and a low people are stretched by the system—that they are driven carbon economy. forward, that they are inspired and that they can aspire We should be raising young people up, not putting to reach the very best. That is what teachers, head them down. If we do not do so, not only will they and teachers and their parents want for them. It is clear that their families be harmed, but our economy and our there has been grade inflation, a topic that has been ability to compete will be maimed and morphed into a covered by several right hon. and hon. Members. People grotesque Hogwart’s parody of education, for which are perhaps being given the impression that there is an this Secretary of State would bear a solemn responsibility. endless arc upon which we will see results improve. We had a brief discussion about the Deputy Prime Minister’s progress at the Rio summit and the issues there of 5.52 pm exponential growth without due consideration being Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD): We seem to be given to sustainability. Perhaps what we are talking having a remarkable outbreak of consensus in the about in this debate is sustainability in the examination Chamber— system. When the Secretary of State came to the Dispatch Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab): Yes. Put a stop Box last week to respond to an urgent question from the to that. hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), we had a slightly more Daily Mail-influenced discussion Dan Rogerson: The hon. Gentleman is welcome to across the House, as the news was hot off the press. The the Chamber. We look forward to interjections from Secretary of State at that point was clearly responding him. to the leak, from wherever it came, and was not able to What was presumably billed, as Opposition day debates present a more thorough position, as he has done today. are, as a good knockabout seems to have collapsed into He ruled out the idea of returning to the 1950s with the consensus. I am left feeling that I agree with much of O-level and the CSE, and instead proposed re-examining what has been said from both sides of the House about the GCSE and moving forward. I welcome that. the way forward in terms of rigour and a genuine The proposal relating to examination boards seems consultation and re-examination of the examination to be moving forward to consultation. I can see the system. I am left disagreeing only with the Daily Mail, a strengths of a system in which a board concentrates on situation in which I often find myself, so it is reassuring a particular subject area. There are those of us who territory for me. might be surprised not to see the Secretary of State 205 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 206

[Dan Rogerson] to the Secretary of State’s office, from a special adviser or perhaps the hon. Member for Grantham and Stamford looking at a more market-based solution. The proposal (Nick Boles) at last earning his crust. I will also work on could be said to be a little centrally directed, but as my the assumption that today’s debate is part of testing the hon. Friend the Member for Wells (Tessa Munt) pointed response to that. If at any point the Secretary of State out, young people are increasingly moving with their wishes to stand up and say to the House, “No, Mr. Tim families to other parts of the country. If they join a Shipman of the Daily Mail as ever got it totally wrong school or college part-way through a course where the and we have no plans in this direction,” I will happily syllabus is different from their previous course, that yield the floor. But I also warn the Secretary of State presents problems. There have been one or two examples that he is going down a dangerous road, because if, as where the head teacher of an academy, who is responsible we have heard this afternoon, he has no plans in this for admissions, has said that they are not able to take a direction, there is little more dangerous than the Daily young person on a course offered at their institution Mail spurned. But for the moment I will work on the because the syllabus is different. Perhaps progress could assumption that it is correct. be made in that respect. These issues would need close examination to ensure that a range of courses was available so that all young Kevin Brennan: If my hon. Friend is incorrect and the people are inspired by what is on offer. There must be Secretary of State has performed some kind of humiliating no sad homogenisation, and teachers must have the climbdown today, does he think that the Secretary of scope to ensure that they cover a broad curriculum. State will have to apologise to all those who came on the media to back him, including Toby Young and all his We have an opportunity to look closely at the issue of other friends in the right-wing press? rigour. I am delighted that we are not moving towards a wholesale change of the system, which could prove to be a distraction. As a Government the coalition has Tristram Hunt: It was amazing how they were all rightly moved to lift burdens on teachers and to remove ready, almost whipped in, but perhaps the Secretary of unnecessary bureaucracy. Teachers want from us the State will have another visit to the High Court and his support to use the skills that they have acquired. The friend Judge Leveson to explain all this. Secretary of State was absolutely right to point out that we have a fantastic generation of teachers out there The Secretary of State will know that I have no inspiring and working with young people. They do not problem with some of his policies. I am happy to want another upheaval and change; they want the support the English baccalaureate, much greater rigour confidence to know that the examinations to which they in standards, and the ending of endless repeat examinations are submitting their students will be correct, robust and and an end to semi-vocational, grade-inflating GCSE- a fair assessment of those young people’s attainment, equivalent exams. However, I share with my hon. Friend and, in some senses, of the attainment of the school or the shadow Secretary of State serious reservations about college in supporting those young people to the best of the downgrading of the engineering diploma, at a time their potential. when we are interested in rebalancing the British economy. I am delighted to say that the motion hangs on the I am in favour of schools being allowed to conduct words of the Deputy Prime Minister, unlike the shadow internal streaming, of academy schools in the right Minister, who sadly is not hanging on the words that I circumstances, of apprenticeships when done properly. am offering to the Chamber. He clearly was hanging on As an historian, I am also in favour of pupils learning the words of the Deputy Prime Minister last week, and dates and poems, because that provides the structure it is good to see that the Opposition take such close and the architecture that allows for greater learning and account of what he has to say, as they did earlier this understanding. I am in favour of the Wolf report and afternoon. The motion talks about a Government proposal what it means for skills training. to do certain things, which, as has become clear, the A large part of the agenda I can concur with, but this Government are not proposing to do. Therefore, it bizarre decision to think about abolishing GCSEs and would be entirely the wrong thing to support a motion reintroduce O-levels and CSEs strikes me as deeply based on such a false premise. On the other hand, we misguided. How would this help children in my constituency have an amendment, around which I hope the House of Stoke-on-Trent? I want students in my city to take can coalesce, which talks about rigour and the need to GCSEs in relevant subjects, to be taught well and to ensure that there is a broad-based curriculum focused aspire. I do not think that at the age of 14 they should on the key areas of study and encouraging all young be hived off into CSEs; for their aspirations to be put people to aspire to the best of their potential, and into a straitjacket. As the Chair of the Select Committee tackling social mobility, as the coalition agreement and said, we know the problems about standards, but no the Government have set out to do, to ensure that all Government Member has been able to stand up and young people, no matter where they start out, are given say, “Yes, the solution to this problem is, as reported in every opportunity to achieve the very best for them and the Daily Mail, the O-level/CSE divide.” Until we hear for their communities. that, this is, as the Chair also said, a slightly bizarre debate. But I will continue working on the dangerous 6.1 pm assumption of Daily Mail correctitude. Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): In Looking at the Financial Times research, 25% of contrast to the Chair of the Select Committee, because children in my constituency would be put into the I have a more cynical frame of mind, I will work on the straitjacket of CSEs. That is not the soft bigotry of low assumption that the Daily Mail report of 21 June was expectations, but the hard bigotry of low expectations correct and that the briefing came from someone close in action. It demonstrates a total poverty of ambition. 207 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 208

Mr Graham Stuart: An interesting outcome of this that there is an ambition to return to a more divisive debate was texting my office to ask how many people—I system. The tragedy is that there is so much work to be realise that as Chair of the Select Committee I should done: the quality of teacher training; ending the scandal know this—take these foundation GCSEs. The answer of an ever-expanding key stage 4, which means pupils I got back is that that information is not collected by are finishing history or geography in year 8; ending the the Department for Education or by the exam boards. relentless examination culture that sees AS exams in the Go figure. January of the lower sixth—we need to get rid of that; embedding a new strategy for the teaching of foreign Tristram Hunt: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that languages; driving up numeracy and literacy. These are intervention. That is why I found the discussion about the real challenges confronting schooling. In the face of employers knowing the difference betweenaCatGCSE these challenges, this political strategy seems a massive at different levels attained wholly fallacious. If the big misallocation of the Secretary of State’s time and resources problem of educational attainment is the long tail of and those of civil servants in his Department. The under-achievement, the measures to combat that need Government are already reviewing the primary and to be there for all. There is no evidence to suggest that secondary school curricula, so why also begin this tub- dividing at 14 will help that. We had an interesting thumping policy that is not based on empirical evidence? contribution today on some of the neurological evidence This is no way to make policy: revealing these kinds of the potential for growth from 14 to 16. What we do of ideas in the Daily Mail, a newspaper usually opposed have evidence for is how overwhelming it will be for the to deep thinking, learning and cohesive policy development, poor and those from socio-economically challenged and at a time when young people are taking their exams. backgrounds who will be condemned to the new CSEs. All we can hope is that it is a rather cack-handed That is why the 1980s Conservative Government abandoned example of kite-flying by a Secretary of State who is this policy. In 1985, Sir Keith Joseph, who became Lord slightly puffed up at the moment and that the kite will Joseph, unveiled evidence that there is soon be shot down and normal service resumed. “strong association between low achievement and the poverty-related factors of poor housing, single-parent families and a low proportion of children in higher socio-economic groups”. 6.10 pm This policy of division was too divisive even for Sir Keith. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): This has been a We also hear that with the new O-levels there will be confectionary debate featuring a number of individual no national curriculum—although a back-door one sweets, not least the polo mint that constitutes the because of a single qualification authority. This strikes motion. I have studied it in great detail and found me as a rather strange route to developing the kind of nothing that takes forward this country’s education curriculum we want, drawing on a wide knowledge debate. In the words of one coalition colleague, it is an base. It also flies in the face of the Secretary of State’s “opportunistic wheeze.” Having studied the motion and ambitions to create a national narrative of British history, found nothing of substance, we should then go back to to teach in all our schools a single notion of British the words of the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin history that imbues notions of citizenship which develops Brennan), who so enlightened the House when he outlined a—rather Whiggish in my view—conception of the the Opposition’s education policy last Thursday: British past that all will share. They will not all share “We on the Opposition side of the House believe in a modern that if there is no national curriculum. The greater the education system that promotes high standards, rigorous exams”.— division between schools, the greater the division in the [Official Report, 21 June 2012; Vol. 546, c. 1026.] teaching of history. Any ambition to teach a cohesive notion of citizenship through the teaching of history is He had earlier sought an apology, but of course thus far totally undone by the elimination of a cohesive national we have had no apology for his claim that three in curriculum. 10 pupils equalled 60% of them. When one studies the specific proposals he put forward last Thursday, one Internal reforms of the GCSE would be welcome. has to ask oneself, “Is this not lighter than air?” It is the Clampdown on grade inflation and the proposals vis-à-vis Aero policy we are now studying— the examinations board are to be welcomed. An end to generalised humanities GCSEs—the merging of history and geography—are to be welcomed. We can learn from Kevin Brennan: This is the humbug speech. the international GCSE, the I-bac. But all that can be achieved within the current system. That is the tragedy Guy Opperman: No. I can assure hon. Members that of what the Secretary of State is up to. it is the hon. Gentleman’s proposals that are lighter than air; I have studied them and found that there is not Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): The hon. much in them. Gentleman mentions the baccalaureate and international We then move on to the Celebrations moment. While GCSEs. If those are acceptable, and it seems that they I was in hospital last year, when something took place are, and they are the examinations for able pupils, which that was of good order I would be provided with a large they are, what would happen to the other GCSEs that box of Celebrations. There was such a time earlier would be occupied by the less able? today: the shadow Secretary of State, like St Paul on the road to Damascus, stood forth and admitted for the Tristram Hunt: The point about the GCSE is that it is first time that there had been grade inflation under a general certificate of secondary education. The point Labour. However, despite repeated questioning by me about the CSE is that it had stigma attached to it. At and others, he refused to state when he first discovered GCSE one can have an A and an A*. There is still the this grade inflation. Was it 1997, 2005, 2010, 2012, or GCSE and a structure. The briefing to the Daily Mail is was it yesterday? He failed to divulge when that magical 209 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 210

[Guy Opperman] that many members of the current Government must be trying to secure some kind of medal, in this Olympic event took place. That is a crucial point, because the year, for driving the value of our young people and their discovery of grade inflation is utterly important to an achievements to a record low. Time and again they send assessment of how this policy is going forward. young people negative messages, undervalue their hard Despite throwing money at the problem, the previous work in sitting their examinations and then, when they Government did not see the results. As other Members do well, put the boot in again by suggesting that their have outlined, maths, literacy and science all declined, certificates are hardly worth the paper they are printed on. whatever type of test was taken. Academies do work, The Secretary of State wants to drive up standards—we and I applaud the expansion of that programme. Let us all do—but the actions he now proposes will effectively take as an exemplar the words of Andrew Adonis, the write off a large number of young people who need the former Schools Minister, who said there should be greatest support and lower their expectations for a “strong independent governance” that was “free of local happy and productive life. Does he really believe that authority red tape”, with exemplary leadership and that is the way forward, or are his latest pronouncements “brilliant teachers” who were specially chosen. That is about something else? Is he using our children and their the way forward. education to create a debate in the Tory section of the In Northumberland, part of which I represent, schools Government, where attitudes are very different from saw little of the financial benefit that the previous those of their coalition partners? Is he just playing Government bestowed on individual local authorities. controversial games with our children’s future, as the The situation has changed, I am pleased to say, with the newspapers suggest, as he aims to take over from a rebuild announcement for Prudhoe community high weak Prime Minister who is struggling to harness his school, and I look forward to welcoming the Secretary partners and achieve the right-wing agenda he thought of State when he visits Northumberland shortly. I will he would be pursuing after the general election? also be showing him the amazing Queen Elizabeth high school in Hexham, another school that was denied any The former Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, axed sort of funding or rebuild under the previous Government. the two-tier O-level/CSE system. She, like the president of the Liberal Democrats, recognised that it was divisive However, I have two reservations that I want to raise and dumped millions of young people into a second with the Minister. First, we should be wary of change division from which they could not escape. I never for change’s sake. Every teacher in Northumberland I thought that I could agree with such people on anything, spoke with before the last election explained with growing but on this I cannot help agreeing with them both. I depression how every year there was a different syllabus, never thought that a son of Thatcher—perhaps a a different amendment or a different set of textbooks, grandson—could be the one to turn against her in such all costing huge amounts of money, in circumstances in away. which some consistency was clearly needed so that they could get on with what they wanted to do, which was to The Secretary of State has said: teach. “The coalition Government’s education reforms are designed Secondly, I wish to echo some of the comments that to raise standards in all our schools and give every child the have been made on vocational education. I am not a fan opportunity to acquire the rigorous qualifications that will enable of nail technology being a GCSE. However, I represent them to succeed in further and higher education and the world of a constituency in rural Northumberland where we value work.”—[Official Report, 21 June 2012; Vol. 546, c. 1025.] vocational education very highly. I suggest that the However, I, along with the vast majority of educational lesson the Minister should take forward is not to throw professionals, can see the opposite happening. Rather the baby out with the bathwater. It is absolutely vital than reducing educational inequality, the reforms that that we hang on to the engineering and alternative those in the Tory part of the coalition propose will do qualifications. I totally understand and applaud the the opposite. Under the new proposals, around three desire to reduce the number of vocational qualifications, quarters of pupils could sit tough tests modelled on the but there is a danger of being excessive in that policy, old O-level while the remaining pupils take more and in rural areas in particular that will affect the straightforward qualifications modelled on traditional quality of education provided. CSEs in subjects such as maths, English and science. Given the time limit and the number of Members But separating 75% of pupils from the other 25% will who wish to speak, I will bring my remarks to a close. I do nothing but divide children into winners and losers suggest that in these circumstances there is a great deal at the incredibly young age of 14, capping aspiration of scope. I support what the Government are doing and and putting up a barrier to social mobility. think that the motion has absolutely no merit whatsoever. Like my hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), I am a member of the Education Several hon. Members rose— Committee and visited Singapore earlier this year. Some Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I am children there go into the elite education programme at grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the self-restraint he age 12 while the others are shoved down the technical has shown. I am now reducing the time limit to five route. We visited both types of schools and found that minutes. the facilities were very good. However, I was extremely saddened to hear young people talk of themselves as the elite. They are encouraged to talk themselves up, 6.15 pm which is good, but what about the young people who Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): Young are not the elite? If the Education Secretary wants to people are our future, yet the value some people place replicate Singapore’s system here, what would that on them and their achievements is extremely low. I feel contribute to equality of opportunity? 211 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 212

This is not just a moral argument against segregating Mr Graham Stuart: Will my hon. Friend give way? pupils; it is also an argument based on strong evidence. Relegating 14-year-olds to a lesser qualification brands Gavin Barwell: I will not take interventions, for reasons them as underachievers and could drain both students of time. and schools of any incentive to push for higher performance. I do not want to go back to a CSE system, but we If we move on to the CSE track a child who would need the radical reform of our GCSEs in order to bring otherwise be aiming foraCatGCSE, we may find that back a degree of academic rigour. The Education they are very likely to stop trying and not to value the Committee Chairman made a very important point to qualification that they finally achieve. One third of the Secretary of the State about how raising the threshold children who score in the bottom 25% at 11 years old will raise the number of people who succeed. I believe break out of that group by 16, but if they are placed in a passionately, as a parent and from my experience of second-class category at an early age they risk being visiting schools, that paradoxically if we raise the threshold written off. Quite simply, schools cannot predict with we will find that young people respond to it. That is the 100% accuracy the future of their pupils, and many will experience of schools that have switched to the IGCSE struggle to place children correctly. exam. Once again, the north-east of England will bear the In the briefing pack for this debate, I saw some brunt of the Government’s changes, as research shows research from King’s college, London, showing the that the CSE will be most prevalent in northern decline in maths over the past 30 years, with many towns. That the Secretary of State is intent on limiting 14-year-olds not understanding concepts such as algebra the ambitions and opportunities for people in my and ratios. I am not satisfied that my nine-year-old is constituency and many others throughout our region is stretched at his primary school, so I work with him on shameful. his maths at home, and he has already grasped those While in office, Labour managed to narrow the topics. I do not think that he is especially bright or educational gap between the rich and the poor, not clever, but I passionately believe that our young people through dumbing down, as Government Members like are full of talent, and if they are pushed and stretched to believe, but through more investment in schools and they will respond. teachers and through giving schools more freedom to We also need to acknowledge that at 16 years old the innovate. Even the Secretary of State recognises that we right outcome for all our young people is not necessarily have the best cohort of teachers ever, but that did not to sit a full suite of academic qualifications. For years happen by accident. It was investment in their training, and years this country has lacked a proper, respected and excellent support in the classroom, that helped vocational alternative, but if we secure such an alternative, them to raise their game and to support our children as we should not deride it as part of a two-tier system in never before. That is what makes a real difference to our which people doing vocational qualifications are somehow children’s education, not imposing outdated ideas that failures or second best. have already been shown to fail. Tristram Hunt: Like with CSEs. 6.20 pm Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): This has Gavin Barwell: I am not talking about going back to been an historic debate, because for the first time the CSEs, which were second-rate academic qualifications; Front-Bench spokesmen on both sides of the House I am talking about a system in which most children have acknowledged clearly and unequivocally a truth should be capable of getting robust academic qualifications that has been obvious for a long time: our exam system, and, through that, pushed to achieve their maximum. over a number of years, has been dumbed down. I give But we should recognise that it is not the right outcome great credit to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West for all young people, so there should be a proper vocational Derby (Stephen Twigg) for saying that clearly and alternative, and we should not regard the young people unequivocally in response to my question. who go down that route as failures or as second best in I was in the first year group to sit GCSE exams. My any way. I believe that absolutely passionately. class did one O-level in January and eight or nine I shall end my speech—I know others want to speak— GCSEs in June. In the O-level, three of the class of with one final point. Changing our exam system is not 27 got an A grade; in every GCSE subject, a majority in and of itself a solution to the problems that the got A grades; and in some, almost every member of the Education Committee Chairman has identified, but it is class did. It was clear when GCSEs were introduced part of the mix, alongside the other things that the that it was easier to get top grades in them than in Government are doing: getting the basics right in primary O-levels, and research by the university of Durham and school so that everybody learns to read and can access feedback from employers and parents shows that there the curriculum that follows; emphasising discipline so has been a further deterioration since then. that young people can actually learn in the classroom; The Secretary of State has already done a lot to try to giving teachers the freedom to innovate within their address the problem in respect of the English baccalaureate, schools; giving parents a proper and effective choice ending the modular system, re-sits, an emphasis on through the free school model; and, finally, setting a spelling, punctuation and grammar and by getting rid floor and saying to schools that do not live up to the of some equivalents, but further measures are needed. minimum standards that we have a right to expect, It is good that there seems to be consensus on a single “That’s not good enough. We’re going to bring in an exam board and on ending the race to the bottom, so I academy to replace you.” shall focus on the main issue in the debate, the fear of a That package of measures, together with a robust two-tier system, and say clearly and unequivocally that exam system, is what we need to give this country what I do not want to go back to a CSE system. it needs—the best equipped young people in the world. 213 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 214

[Gavin Barwell] When Sir Keith Joseph was introducing the changes, he made very clearly the case for their necessity, stating That is the only way to get the companies that will give that us the jobs we want to locate themselves here, so we “the system we propose will be tougher but clearer and fairer…it need to have the courage to bite the bullet and say will be more intelligible to users…better than O-levels…and openly, as both Front Benchers have for the first time better than CSE…it will stretch the able more; and…stretch the today, that we have dumbed down our system over a average more.”—[Official Report, 20 June 1984; Vol. 62, c. 306.] number of years—not just under the previous, Labour I believe, from my professional experience, that that is Government; it has been going on for a long time—and what the GCSE has done. That does not mean it is that that process needs to be reversed. We need to bring perfect, or that it does not need improving, but any idea back rigour, to provide a proper vocational alternative about going back to the 1950s, and to exam systems and to stop the sterile argument about a two-tier system. that may or may not have been appropriate for that time, is unfortunate. It is worth noting, however, that the debate about an 6.25 pm exam at 16 years old is actually rather odd and Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): Having a good look anachronistic, because, with the raising of the participation at our examination system is a valid thing to do. Indeed, age, the qualification that young people leave with at the Chair of the Education Committee has reminded us 18 years old is what really matters. Focusing so much that next Tuesday it will publish its report into the attention on what happens at 16 misses the point, matter, and I know from my time serving on the Committee because with rising participation levels, the main thing that it will have fully interrogated the issues and will is the skills, attributes and experiences that young people produce a robust report to drive forward policy. leave school with at 18 to allow them, one hopes, into a world of work. Such a principled, considered approach contrasts One of the big problems regarding aspiration for with the Secretary of State’s way of doing business—by young people is the fact that young people’s unemployment hunch, lunch and leak. Indeed, after sitting through is at a record high on this Government’s watch. That 40 minutes of his speech today, I was still no clearer at has a genuine impact on aspiration in classrooms. I am the end about his proposals. It was a content vacuum, I afraid that despite the skills, expertise and professionalism am afraid, but things need addressing. Are there plans of those great teachers, led by great head teachers, up to scrap the national curriculum at 14 years old, and and down the land, that remains the context in which would that allow schools and colleges greater flexibility they are working. As people providing policy and to offer a more skills-based curriculum to those young governance, one of our gifts should be to produce a people who prefer a more practical, vocational approach? mechanism to enable young people to move into Will the millions of pounds—a sum that has doubled in employment and ensure that they have the proper skills, the past 10 years—being spent on examinations be attributes and aptitudes to do well in it. reduced? At the heart of the Secretary of State’s leak to the 6.30 pm Daily Mail, there seemed to be a half-baked idea about some back to the future, imaginary utopia, enshrined in Charlotte Leslie (Bristol North West) (Con): I agree a return to O-levels and CSEs. I fear that that has far with my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon Central more to do with clever politicking than with intelligent (Gavin Barwell) that this has been a historic debate. policy making, however, and that the Secretary of State There has been a tendency for people in this country to is keen to deliver soundbites for the Tory tabloids rather live in a fantasy land. We think that as long as we allow than sound policies for the young people of today and grades to go up and tell ourselves it is okay, it is okay, UK plc. but in an era of globalisation it is not enough to tell ourselves that everything is okay; it really has to be so. It is all a bit like a Monty Python sketch in which We have been doing this in relation to grade inflation someone says, “Exams were much harder in my day. I and what we have been telling our young people. We had to recite poems and parse sentences.” The reply have been saying, “Do this nice course—it’s all going to would be, “Recite poems and parse sentences? You were be fine and no one is going to tell you that you’ve done lucky. I had to recite the complete works of Shakespeare badly”, but reality has to hit them at some point, and and then write an essay on a day in the life of a pound that happens when they go out into the world of work note.” Seriously, however, people like to believe that and find that the cosy story they have been told behind things were harder in the past, although the evidence is their school gates does not match up to the reality far from clear, and the Secretary of State is tapping into outside. What the Secretary of State has said is therefore a populist instinct: nostalgia politics. massively important. I am extremely pleased that the One of the few things I know a bit about is preparing hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) young people for exams. I have prepared them for a has acknowledged that grade inflation has been taking range of exams: CEEs, CSEs, O-levels, A-levels, S-levels, place. AS-levels, BTECs. You name it, Mr Deputy Speaker, I I would like the House to acknowledge that we have have prepared young people for it, but in terms of seen the creation of a two-tier system by stealth. Any setting and assessing standards, the worst exam that I two-tier system is bad, and this one has IGCSEs and ever prepared people for was O-level English, which was the international baccalaureate for the well-off and the a total lottery, so if the Secretary of State thinks that sharp-elbowed, with the less sharp-elbowed left with going back to something like that will improve standards, GCSEs, or their equivalents, that will not get them a job he really is on another planet: planet dogma, or planet at the end of the day. That is absolutely appalling. No not in this place. one can defend the status quo, and anyone who tries to 215 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 216 do so has a much lower opinion of the country’s children of having different papers. The key thing was that right than I do. I want to concentrate on a premise that up until March or April, pupils could move between the underlies a lot of the debate about this two-tier system. examinations that they were going to take in June. That Of course, every child must have the opportunity, and was very important because it gave everyone an incentive must be pushed, to do the best they can at core academic to keep working the whole time and not to think, “Oh subjects; I am a great supporter of the E-bac in that well, they’re only CSEs, so I don’t need to work so hard.” respect. However, to suggest that unless a child does I have serious worries about the introduction of a those core subjects they are thrown on to the scrap dual system. For example, in small subject areas such as heap, as Labour Members have repeatedly have done, music or a second foreign language, children of a larger betrays an extraordinary attitude towards so-called range of ability are often taught in the same class. Will vocational education. they now have to be taught two different syllabuses, or Again, I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for programmes of study, because one class will include the Croydon Central. If we did not have people who did not more able and the less able, with some going in for a find grammar and algebra books the most interesting CSE and some going in for an O-level? In smaller schools, thing in the world, we would not be standing in a that will affect not only small subjects but mainstream building that is so intricately and beautifully built, with subjects. It may be very difficult to accommodate everybody. incredible craftsmanship. I object to the term “vocational”, The teacher might have to run about trying to cope with which has arisen in the past decade or so, because it is a two programmes of study at once, or perhaps some euphemism that betrays a slight embarrassment about pupils will be discouraged from taking the subject having the kinds of skills that have made our cities and our been told that they can do it only if they are capable of country great, and a reluctance actually to name practical, doing the O-level-type examination. manual and technical skills, crafts and tradesmanship. Dual entry could arise, because a child who might fail In future, I should like the term “vocational” to be the more difficult O-level-equivalent exam would therefore abolished and replaced with something far more honest. do the CSE as well. A lot of money is already spent on In terms of equivalence, we have been doing nothing for examination fees, and dual entry is extremely expensive. tradesmanship, craftsmanship and so-called vocational As well as creating additional costs, it would place a lot trades and everything for academic qualifications. Nail of extra pressure on children and staff. There is a technology is not studied to get a job, because there are danger that children will suddenly not be given a chance not enough nail technology jobs to go round for all the to do the more difficult exam and be withdrawn because hundreds of thousands of people who are doing these they might mess up the results. There would be the sheer courses. It has been all about the exam results, not the disruption of introducing two completely new examination jobs. systems when there are many simpler and more effective There has been an overwhelming need to get real, and ways of raising standards. the Secretary of State’s bravery in tackling the underlying I do not understand the Secretary of State saying that problems in our GCSE system is a welcome attempt to people in this country do not re-sit English and maths, do so. I hoped for a moment that Labour Members had because they certainly do. When we go to any institution got real, but it seems that they may not have done. for 16 to 18-year-olds, we will find people making sure that they give every pupil the chance to get the A to C 6.34 pm grades in English and maths that are so essential to Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): I am certainly not against their going on to their future careers or university change. As a former teacher, examiner and Ofsted inspector, courses. On international comparisons, it is not at the I spent a lifetime trying to raise standards of teaching top end of the ability range that we do so badly in this and learning and to develop programmes of study that country, but at the middle and lower ends. Creating better prepared pupils for the modern world so that, for segregated systems will do nothing to improve the morale example, in foreign languages we moved on from talking of the middle-ability and less able pupil; in fact, it will about boys falling out of cherry trees to teaching children do precisely the opposite. realistic phrases that they could use in business and As regards examination boards, the Secretary of State leisure situations. alleged that there had been some shopping around to Did I detect the Secretary of State retreating from the find the system that provided the highest grades for the position attributed to him in the press last week? Did he least effort. It is true that there has been some choosing really say that he was not going for a CSE/O-level of different programmes of study, perhaps because divide? I am not sure. I remember, though, that back in some are more inspiring or user-friendly to the pupil. I 1981, well before the GCSE was rolled out nationwide, I am not against having more than one examination was piloting the 16-plus. That is because we believed board, but will the Secretary of State please confirm very much in piloting things to see how they worked out that we are not going to have separate examination and what the problems were. We were trying to put boards for different subjects, which would be an examination together two very different examinations, withaDgrade officer’s nightmare? I also plead with him to allow some being attributed to pupils of average ability. That is how space for innovation. Having different examination boards we got to the system whereby the A to C grade was seen has allowed us to innovate without a 100% roll-out. as the superior way of designating some children, with D to G grades for the rest, and with the foundation and 6.39 pm higher papers. I make no apology for that; it is the history of how it came about. It is extremely difficult to Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): We have had a set questions that will stretch a very able pupil but not fascinating debate, with contributions from 13 hon. prove to be complete gobbledegook, and a complete Members: my hon. Friend the Member for North West deterrent, to the very least able, and that was the point Durham (Pat Glass), the hon. Member for Beverley and 217 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 218

[Kevin Brennan] is “dead in the water.” Perhaps when he responds, the Minister of State, Department for Education, the hon. Holderness (Mr Stuart), my hon. Friend the Member Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) for Leicester West (Liz Kendall), the hon. Member for will confirm whether that idea is dead in the water. If it East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), my hon. Friend the is, why are the Secretary of State’s advisers at this Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden), the hon. moment spinning to the press lobby in the House of Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson), my hon. Commons that a lower qualification known as an N-level Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram will be introduced—something that he did not announce Hunt), the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman), to the House? my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Alex The Minister needs to come clean when he winds up. Cunningham), the hon. Member for Croydon Central Is the two-tier plan that was leaked to the Daily Mail by (Gavin Barwell), my hon. Friend the Member for the Secretary of State’s closest advisers dead in the Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), the hon. Member for Bristol water or not? Is it full steam ahead for the Secretary of North West (Charlotte Leslie) and my hon. Friend the State, or is this a humiliating climbdown? The Secretary Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith). It has been an of State was asked on three occasions—or as he would interesting, although not entirely illuminating, debate. say, thrice—whether the Daily Mail report was wrong, The Opposition have no disagreement with the case and thrice he demurred and did not tell us. If he is that there is a need to reform the GCSE. As the House making a humiliating climbdown, he must apologise to knows, the GCSE was first sat by pupils 25 years ago. I all his friends who came out in support of the proposals was teaching at the time. The idea that the world has in the media. not changed sufficiently since then for the GCSE to The manner and timing of the leak to the Daily Mail require reform is as ludicrous as the idea that the world were a disgrace, at a time when students up and down is sufficiently similar to how it was 50 years ago that we the country, who have been working hard for months on have to return to O-levels and CSEs. The raising of the end, were sitting their GCSEs. What a contrast that is to education and training leaving age to 18 raises the the way in which the GCSE was introduced all those years fundamental question of what public examinations we ago. A debate was kicked off in 1976 by Jim Callaghan, need at 16 and what they are for. That is a legitimate debate. the former Labour Prime Minister. It was developed by One hon. Member asked whether we need to spend the Shirley Williams, although she has gone off the tracks a huge amount of money that we spend on examinations little since then. Come to think of it, we have not heard at the age of 16. We have to ensure that GCSEs are fit much from her on this subject. It would be interesting for purpose, but we do not need to go back to the future. to know what she thinks. The idea was picked up by In the words of the Deputy Prime Minister, we do Keith Joseph—that well known lily-livered, liberal, loony not need to recreate lefty—and implemented by Mrs Thatcher’s Education “a two tier system where children at quite a young age are Secretary, Kenneth Baker, following thorough debate somehow cast on a scrap heap”. and consideration. It was welcomed across the House. The more observant hon. Members will have noticed In contrast, we now have a proposal to rip up the that we included those words in our motion. However, GCSE, with accompanying disparaging rhetoric, cooked the Government amendment, which is signed, among up by a cabal, no doubt using private e-mail accounts, others, by the Deputy Prime Minister, would expunge with no reference to the Department’s officials or to those words from the motion. That is a novel approach. other Departments, and kept secret even from one of It might well be first time that a senior Cabinet Minister the Secretary of State’s Education Ministers. What a has tabled an amendment to delete his own words. ludicrous way to run a Department that is, and how symptomatic of the Secretary of State’s seething lack of Dan Rogerson: There would be a problem if the trust in his own Minister and officials. Deputy Prime Minister had said something in the amendment that disagreed with what he said before. At least we can assume that the Secretary of State The amendment has a different emphasis, but there is would be kinder to and have more faith in those on his no contradiction between the two. own side. Not so, because we now find out that not even the Prime Minister knew the details of what he was Kevin Brennan: In that case, the Deputy Prime Minister about to leak to the Daily Mail. A Downing street could have left his own words in the amendment that he spokesman told the Financial Times: signed, but he chose to delete them. I am tempted to “It looks as if we’re being bounced into something we weren’t say, in the words of the late, great Amy Winehouse, prepared for.” “What kind of Lib-Demery is this?” Let us allow for a What about the Education Committee, which is chaired moment the notion that the Deputy Prime Minister ably by the Secretary of State’s Conservative colleague, meant what he said about a two-tier system, despite the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness, who as trying to delete his own words from the motion. always made a thoughtful contribution today? Let us be The Government amendment appears to contradict clear that the Chair of the Select Committee is no fan of the leaks from the Secretary of State’s advisers last Labour education policy. We have had many discussions week that he would not need parliamentary approval or about it and, to save him any embarrassment, I confirm Lib Dem support for his proposal to bring back CSEs that he is no fan of Labour education policy. Nevertheless, and O-levels. We have it from the Financial Times that we respect his long-standing commitment to raising the Downing street now insists that the Secretary of State standards for those at the bottom. As the Secretary of cannot go ahead without approval with the proposals State well knows, the Committee is at this moment that he leaked to the Daily Mail last week. The Financial undertaking a review of qualifications and examinations Times article goes on to say that that seeks to address some of these questions. What “the idea of a lower qualification for less academic children” contempt the Secretary of State has shown for the 219 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 220

Education Committee by publicising his plans in the press performance tables, but that turned out to have less without any consideration of the Committee’s work. I credibility with employers than the young people had took a sharp intake of breath when the Secretary of State been led to believe, as so aptly pointed out by my hon. said to the Chair of the Select Committee in the debate, Friend the Member for Bristol North West. That is why, “If the cap on aspiration fits, wear it.” That was uncalled on the recommendation of Alison Wolf, we have looked for and was off the mark with regard to the hon. again at all vocational qualifications taught in schools Gentleman’s commitment to helping those at the lower to ensure that only those highly valued by employers end. However, I know that he needs no help from me. count in performance tables. That will raise both the I met the CBI earlier today. Like us, it thinks that the value and the esteem of the vocational qualifications GCSE needs to be looked at again. Like us, it thinks taught in our schools, which is supported by my hon. that a much wider debate is needed than the headline- Friend the Member for Croydon Central (Gavin Barwell). grabbing call for a return to O-levels and CSEs that we Last year, the OECD produced its seminal report, have had from the Secretary of State. GCSEs are not, “How do some students overcome their socio-economic despite the impression that the Secretary of State tried background?” It states that, in Britain, only a quarter of to give last week, a worthless piece of paper, but that is deprived children were able to overcome their background exactly how Kenneth Baker described CSEs, which the in terms of academic achievement, compared with more Secretary of State last week seemed so keen to bring than 70% in Shanghai and Hong Kong, which places back. As my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe Britain 39th out of 65 OECD countries. pointed out, many O-levels were not rigorous qualifications, Addressing those inequalities lies at the heart of but required little more than a Gradgrindian regurgitation every radical education reform implemented, announced of facts. Factual knowledge is not enough in a world in or mooted by the Government since May 2010, which which, as the CBI told me today, more data will be includes: the academies and free school programmes, created this year than have been created in the previous which bring professional autonomy and diversity to our 5,000 years. Rote learning is insufficient in a world that school system and raise standards in some of the most needs citizens who can process intelligently a mass of deprived parts of the country; the focus on phonics in information and data in their daily lives. We need breadth reading and the phonic check—we last week checked and balance in the curriculum. the basic reading skills of every 6-year-old in the country— The GCSE was brought in not as a single examination which mean that no child slips through the net with paper, as some Government colleagues seem to think, their reading problems unidentified; ending the re-sit but as a single examinations system that would give culture and modularisation in GCSEs; restoring marks everybody the chance to succeed if they reached the for spelling, punctuation and grammar; the pupil premium, required standard. That is a principle worth preserving. which provides significant extra school funding for Reform, yes; back to the future, no. pupils who are eligible for free school meals; allowing good schools to expand; raising the floor standard of underperforming primary and secondary schools; giving 6.49 pm more power to teachers to tackle unruly behaviour; The Minister of State, Department for Education reviewing the national curriculum; publishing draft primary (Mr Nick Gibb): This has been a good debate, but as my school programmes of study in English, maths and hon. Friend the Member for Bristol North West (Charlotte science; and putting greater emphasis on reading, scientific Leslie) pointed out, we need a reality check. The overarching knowledge, languages, arithmetic and the essentials of objective of the Government’s education policy is to grammar, spelling and punctuation. close the attainment gap between those from wealthier Those are the important reforms, but as my right and those from poorer backgrounds, which is wider in hon. Friend the Secretary of State has said, the evidence this country than in many of our competitor nations. shows that we must go further. A few weeks ago, a CBI The gap means that 49% of pupils eligible for free survey showed that nearly half of all employers were school meals achieved a grade C or better in GCSE unhappy with the basic literacy skills of school and maths last year compared with 74% of all non-free college leavers—35% expressed concern over maths. school meal pupils; that 67% of pupils eligible for free This week, King’s College London reported that teenagers’ school meals achieved the expected level in reading maths skills have declined over the past 30 years. when they left primary school last year compared with 82% of non-free school meal pupils; and that just 8% of The Government are clear that we need fundamental pupils eligible for free school meals were entered for the reform. We want a broad, inclusive conversation to English baccalaureate combination of core academic consider how we address the concerns of employers, GCSEs compared with 22% overall. parents, pupils and schools. We must learn our lessons not from the past, but from the best—from countries That attainment gap is morally unacceptable and, as such as Singapore, where students are required to have a my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds proper knowledge of syntax and grammar, an (Mr Ruffley) said, economically damaging to this country. understanding of the scientific laws that govern our It has all the hallmarks of the two-tier education system world, and an understanding of maths, which allow that hon. Members say they wish to eliminate. them to progress down both technical and academic routes. None of that is beyond the children of this Tristram Hunt: Will the Minister give way? country, but we too often lack the most basic aspiration on their behalf. Mr Gibb: I will not give way because of the time. In Singapore, the exams designed for 16-year-olds are Under the previous Government and that two-tier rigorous, academic, stretching and comprehensive. They system, a sizeable proportion of young people were are taken by the vast majority of the population. Those persuaded to take qualifications that scored highly in exams—O-levels drawn up by examiners in this country— 221 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 222

[Mr Gibb] key stage 4. There are two tiers: those with English and maths, and those without. There are two tiers in the set a level of aspiration for every child that helps to current structure of GCSEs—a foundation tier and a ensure that Singapore remains a world leader in education. higher tier—including in English, maths and science. We want to ensure that children in this country have The highest achievable grade in ordinary circumstances exactly the same opportunities as their peers in Singapore in the lower tier is C. We have two tiers in the grading and other high-performing nations; that our pupils are system, with 19% of pupils achieving grades E, F and G as comprehensively equipped to compete in a world of in GCSE Maths, and 11% of pupils achieving those international commerce; that every single child has the grades in English. opportunity to succeed to their full potential. We need to ensure that our exams are on a par with The Government’s reforms are designed to achieve a those in the highest performing countries in the world, fundamental change in expectation and academic and that our schools are delivering the kind of education achievement. We should expect all schools to have the that equips and prepares all pupils to take and excel in academic attainment of Mossbourne academy. We want those exams. That is what the Government mean by our qualifications to be world class, with the expectation closing the attainment gap. I urge the House to reject that all will study for them, and that the great majority the cynical motion tabled by the Opposition and to will achieve them, if not by aged 16, then by 17, 18 or 19. support the radical education reform agenda being The hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen delivered by this Government to ensure rigour and high Twigg) made a revealing speech. I am not aware of any expectations for all young people in this country. Education Minister from the previous Labour Government Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the who would accept the existence of grade inflation in original words stand part of the Question. GCSEs. His acceptance of that and his change of view are welcome—they help to bring honesty and candour The House divided: Ayes 222, Noes 298. to the debate. Division No. 25] [6.59 pm My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), in seeking to defend himself from accusations AYES of fatalism, spoke of establishing a route map from Abbott, Ms Diane Crausby, Mr David point A to point B—good luck with that—and sought Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Creagh, Mary more detail on the Government’s proposals before the Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Creasy, Stella publication of our consultation document, while refusing Alexander, Heidi Cruddas, Jon to give the Government a glimpse of the Education Ali, Rushanara Cryer, John Committee’s forthcoming report on qualifications, which Allen, Mr Graham Cunningham, Alex is due out next week. Anderson, Mr David Cunningham, Mr Jim Ashworth, Jonathan Cunningham, Sir Tony I welcome the support of the hon. Member for Leicester Austin, Ian Curran, Margaret West (Liz Kendall) for the single exam board proposal Bailey, Mr Adrian Danczuk, Simon and wholeheartedly congratulate New College school Bain, Mr William David, Wayne on its transformation, and on the “yes you can, yes you Balls, rh Ed Davidson, Mr Ian will” ethos. Banks, Gordon De Piero, Gloria Barron, rh Mr Kevin Denham, rh Mr John My hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire Bayley, Hugh Dobson, rh Frank (Damian Hinds) raised concerns about grade inflation, Beckett, rh Margaret Donohoe, Mr Brian H. early entry for GCSE, re-sits and modularisation, and Bell, Sir Stuart Doran, Mr Frank rightly pointed out that today we have a clear, two-tier Benn, rh Hilary Dowd, Jim GCSE system, which he called a rebranded CSE and Berger, Luciana Doyle, Gemma GCE system. He revised the phrase made famous by Betts, Mr Clive Dugher, Michael Melanie Phillips—“All must have prizes”—by saying Blackman-Woods, Roberta Eagle, Ms Angela that all must merit prizes. Blears, rh Hazel Eagle, Maria Blenkinsop, Tom Edwards, Jonathan I welcome the support of my hon. Friend the Member Blunkett, rh Mr David Efford, Clive for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) for rigour. He is Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Elliott, Julie right to be reassured about genuine consultation. The Brennan, Kevin Ellman, Mrs Louise hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) Brown, Lyn Engel, Natascha falsely accused my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Esterson, Bill and Stamford (Nick Boles) of earning his crust, but I Brown, Mr Russell Evans, Chris welcome the hon. Gentleman’s support for the English Buck, Ms Karen Farrelly, Paul baccalaureate and for children acquiring knowledge in Burden, Richard Field, rh Mr Frank history and learning poems by heart. I take on board Burnham, rh Andy Fitzpatrick, Jim the caution of my hon. Friend the Member for Hexham Campbell, Mr Alan Flello, Robert (Guy Opperman) against change for change’s sake. Campbell, Mr Ronnie Fovargue, Yvonne Caton, Martin Francis, Dr Hywel The Government are accused of wanting to create a Chapman, Jenny Galloway, George two-tier education system, but this country already has Clark, Katy Gapes, Mike one, which we believe is letting down too many children Clarke, rh Mr Tom Gardiner, Barry and young people. Professor Wolf said in her important Clwyd, rh Ann Gilmore, Sheila review of vocational education that English and maths Coffey, Ann Glass, Pat are fundamental to young people’s employment and Cooper, Rosie Glindon, Mrs Mary education prospects, yet less than half of all students Cooper, rh Yvette Godsiff, Mr Roger have good GCSEs in English and maths at the end of Corbyn, Jeremy Goggins, rh Paul 223 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 224

Goodman, Helen Moon, Mrs Madeleine NOES Greatrex, Tom Morden, Jessica Adams, Nigel Eustice, George Green, Kate Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Afriyie, Adam Evans, Graham Greenwood, Lilian Morris, Grahame M. Aldous, Peter Evans, Jonathan Griffith, Nia (Easington) Amess, Mr David Evennett, Mr David Gwynne, Andrew Mudie, Mr George Andrew, Stuart Fabricant, Michael Hain, rh Mr Peter Murphy, rh Paul Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Fallon, Michael Hamilton, Fabian Murray, Ian Bacon, Mr Richard Farron, Tim Hanson, rh Mr David Nandy, Lisa Baker, Steve Featherstone, Lynne Harman, rh Ms Harriet Nash, Pamela Baldry, Sir Tony Field, Mark Harris, Mr Tom O’Donnell, Fiona Barclay, Stephen Foster, rh Mr Don Havard, Mr Dai Onwurah, Chi Barker, Gregory Francois, rh Mr Mark Healey, rh John Owen, Albert Baron, Mr John Freeman, George Hendrick, Mark Pearce, Teresa Barwell, Gavin Freer, Mike Hepburn, Mr Stephen Perkins, Toby Bebb, Guto Fullbrook, Lorraine Heyes, David Phillipson, Bridget Beith, rh Sir Alan Garnier, Mark Hillier, Meg Pound, Stephen Benyon, Richard Gauke, Mr David Hilling, Julie Qureshi, Yasmin Beresford, Sir Paul George, Andrew Hodge, rh Margaret Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Bingham, Andrew Gibb, Mr Nick Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Reed, Mr Jamie Birtwistle, Gordon Gilbert, Stephen Hopkins, Kelvin Reeves, Rachel Blackman, Bob Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Howarth, rh Mr George Reynolds, Jonathan Blackwood, Nicola Glen, John Hunt, Tristram Riordan, Mrs Linda Blunt, Mr Crispin Goldsmith, Zac Irranca-Davies, Huw Robertson, John Bone, Mr Peter Goodwill, Mr Robert Jackson, Glenda Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Bottomley, Sir Peter Gove, rh Michael Jamieson, Cathy Rotheram, Steve Bradley, Karen Graham, Richard Jarvis, Dan Roy, Mr Frank Brady, Mr Graham Grant, Mrs Helen Johnson, rh Alan Roy, Lindsay Brake, rh Tom Gray, Mr James Johnson, Diana Ruane, Chris Bray, Angie Grayling, rh Chris Jones, Graham Ruddock, rh Dame Brazier, Mr Julian Green, Damian Jones, Helen Joan Bridgen, Andrew Greening, rh Justine Jones, Mr Kevan Sarwar, Anas Brine, Steve Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Jones, Susan Elan Seabeck, Alison Brokenshire, James Griffiths, Andrew Joyce, Eric Sharma, Mr Virendra Brooke, Annette Gummer, Ben Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Shuker, Gavin Browne, Mr Jeremy Gyimah, Mr Sam Keeley, Barbara Skinner, Mr Dennis Bruce, Fiona Halfon, Robert Kendall, Liz Slaughter, Mr Andy Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Hames, Duncan Khan, rh Sadiq Smith, rh Mr Andrew Buckland, Mr Robert Hammond, rh Mr Philip Lammy, rh Mr David Smith, Angela Burley, Mr Aidan Hammond, Stephen Lavery, Ian Smith, Nick Burns, Conor Hancock, Matthew Lazarowicz, Mark Smith, Owen Burns, rh Mr Simon Hands, Greg Leslie, Chris Straw, rh Mr Jack Burstow, Paul Harper, Mr Mark Lewis, Mr Ivan Stringer, Graham Burt, Lorely Harrington, Richard Lloyd, Tony Stuart, Ms Gisela Byles, Dan Hart, Simon Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harvey, Nick Love, Mr Andrew Tami, Mark Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Lucas, Ian Thornberry, Emily Carmichael, Neil Heath, Mr David MacShane, rh Mr Timms, rh Stephen Cash, Mr William Heaton-Harris, Chris Denis Trickett, Jon Clappison, Mr James Hemming, John Mactaggart, Fiona Turner, Karl Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Henderson, Gordon Mahmood, Shabana Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hendry, Charles Malhotra, Seema Twigg, Derek Twigg, Stephen Coffey, Dr Thérèse Herbert, rh Nick Mann, John Collins, Damian Hinds, Damian Vaz, rh Keith Marsden, Mr Gordon Colvile, Oliver Hoban, Mr Mark Vaz, Valerie McCann, Mr Michael Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hollingbery, George Walley, Joan McCarthy, Kerry Crabb, Stephen Hollobone, Mr Philip Watts, Mr Dave McClymont, Gregg Crockart, Mike Holloway, Mr Adam McDonagh, Siobhain Whitehead, Dr Alan Crouch, Tracey Hopkins, Kris McDonnell, John Wicks, rh Malcolm Davey, rh Mr Edward Horwood, Martin McFadden, rh Mr Pat Williams, Hywel Davies, Glyn Howell, John McGovern, Alison Williamson, Chris Davies, Philip Hughes, rh Simon McGovern, Jim Winnick, Mr David de Bois, Nick Huhne, rh Chris McKechin, Ann Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Dinenage, Caroline Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy McKenzie, Mr Iain Wood, Mike Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hunter, Mark McKinnell, Catherine Woodcock, John Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Huppert, Dr Julian Meacher, rh Mr Michael Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Dorries, Nadine Hurd, Mr Nick Mearns, Ian Wright, David Doyle-Price, Jackie Jackson, Mr Stewart Michael, rh Alun Wright, Mr Iain Drax, Richard James, Margot Miliband, rh David Dunne, Mr Philip Javid, Sajid Miliband, rh Edward Tellers for the Ayes: Ellis, Michael Jenkin, Mr Bernard Miller, Andrew Phil Wilson and Ellison, Jane Johnson, Gareth Mitchell, Austin Nic Dakin Elphicke, Charlie Johnson, Joseph 225 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 226

Jones, Andrew Pincher, Christopher Whittingdale, Mr John Wright, Simon Jones, Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel Wiggin, Bill Yeo, Mr Tim Jones, Mr Marcus Prisk, Mr Mark Williams, Mr Mark Young, rh Sir George Kawczynski, Daniel Raab, Mr Dominic Williams, Roger Zahawi, Nadhim Kelly, Chris Randall, rh Mr John Williams, Stephen Kirby, Simon Reckless, Mark Williamson, Gavin Tellers for the Noes: Kwarteng, Kwasi Redwood, rh Mr John Wilson, Mr Rob Jenny Willott and Laing, Mrs Eleanor Rees-Mogg, Jacob Wollaston, Dr Sarah James Duddridge Lamb, Norman Reevell, Simon Lancaster, Mark Reid, Mr Alan Question accordingly negatived. Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Latham, Pauline Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 31(2)), Laws, rh Mr David Robertson, Hugh That the proposed words be there added. Leadsom, Andrea Robertson, Mr Laurence The House divided: Ayes 298, Noes 217. Lee, Jessica Rogerson, Dan Lee, Dr Phillip Rosindell, Andrew Division No. 26] [7.15 pm Leech, Mr John Ruffley, Mr David Lefroy, Jeremy Rutley, David AYES Leslie, Charlotte Sandys, Laura Adams, Nigel Crockart, Mike Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Scott, Mr Lee Afriyie, Adam Crouch, Tracey Lewis, Brandon Selous, Andrew Aldous, Peter Davey, rh Mr Edward Lewis, Dr Julian Shapps, rh Grant Amess, Mr David Davies, Glyn Lilley, rh Mr Peter Sharma, Alok Andrew, Stuart Davies, Philip Lloyd, Stephen Shepherd, Mr Richard Arbuthnot, rh Mr James de Bois, Nick Lopresti, Jack Simmonds, Mark Bacon, Mr Richard Dinenage, Caroline Lord, Jonathan Simpson, David Baker, Steve Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith Baldry, Sir Tony Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Barclay, Stephen Dorries, Nadine Macleod, Mary Smith, Miss Chloe Barker, Gregory Doyle-Price, Jackie Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Henry Baron, Mr John Drax, Richard Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Julian Barwell, Gavin Dunne, Mr Philip May, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Sir Robert Bebb, Guto Ellis, Michael Maynard, Paul Soames, rh Nicholas Beith, rh Sir Alan Ellison, Jane McCartney, Karl Soubry, Anna Benyon, Richard Elphicke, Charlie McIntosh, Miss Anne Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Beresford, Sir Paul Eustice, George McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stanley, rh Sir John Bingham, Andrew Evans, Graham McPartland, Stephen Stevenson, John Birtwistle, Gordon Evans, Jonathan McVey, Esther Stewart, Bob Blackman, Bob Evennett, Mr David Mensch, Louise Stewart, Iain Blackwood, Nicola Fabricant, Michael Menzies, Mark Stewart, Rory Bone, Mr Peter Fallon, Michael Mercer, Patrick Streeter, Mr Gary Bottomley, Sir Peter Farron, Tim Metcalfe, Stephen Stride, Mel Bradley, Karen Featherstone, Lynne Miller, Maria Stuart, Mr Graham Brady, Mr Graham Field, Mark Mills, Nigel Stunell, Andrew Brake, rh Tom Foster, rh Mr Don Milton, Anne Sturdy, Julian Bray, Angie Francois, rh Mr Mark Moore, rh Michael Swales, Ian Brazier, Mr Julian Freeman, George Mordaunt, Penny Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Bridgen, Andrew Freer, Mike Morgan, Nicky Swinson, Jo Brine, Steve Fullbrook, Lorraine Morris, David Syms, Mr Robert Brokenshire, James Garnier, Mark Morris, James Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Brooke, Annette Gauke, Mr David Mosley, Stephen Teather, Sarah Browne, Mr Jeremy George, Andrew Mowat, David Thurso, John Bruce, Fiona Gibb, Mr Nick Munt, Tessa Timpson, Mr Edward Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Gilbert, Stephen Murray, Sheryll Tomlinson, Justin Buckland, Mr Robert Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Murrison, Dr Andrew Tredinnick, David Burley, Mr Aidan Glen, John Newmark, Mr Brooks Truss, Elizabeth Burns, Conor Goldsmith, Zac Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Burns, rh Mr Simon Goodwill, Mr Robert Nokes, Caroline Tyrie, Mr Andrew Burstow, Paul Gove, rh Michael Norman, Jesse Uppal, Paul Burt, Lorely Graham, Richard Nuttall, Mr David Vaizey, Mr Edward Byles, Dan Grant, Mrs Helen O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vara, Mr Shailesh Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Gray, Mr James Offord, Dr Matthew Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Grayling, rh Chris Ollerenshaw, Eric Walker, Mr Charles Carmichael, Neil Green, Damian Opperman, Guy Walker, Mr Robin Carswell, Mr Douglas Greening, rh Justine Osborne, rh Mr George Wallace, Mr Ben Cash, Mr William Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Ottaway, Richard Watkinson, Angela Clappison, Mr James Griffiths, Andrew Paice, rh Mr James Weatherley, Mike Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Gummer, Ben Parish, Neil Webb, Steve Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Gyimah, Mr Sam Patel, Priti Wharton, James Coffey, Dr Thérèse Halfon, Robert Pawsey, Mark Wheeler, Heather Collins, Damian Hames, Duncan Phillips, Stephen White, Chris Colvile, Oliver Hammond, rh Mr Philip Pickles, rh Mr Eric Whittaker, Craig Cox, Mr Geoffrey Hammond, Stephen 227 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 228

Hancock, Matthew Menzies, Mark Stewart, Rory Wallace, Mr Ben Hands, Greg Mercer, Patrick Streeter, Mr Gary Watkinson, Angela Harper, Mr Mark Metcalfe, Stephen Stride, Mel Weatherley, Mike Harrington, Richard Miller, Maria Stuart, Mr Graham Webb, Steve Hart, Simon Mills, Nigel Stunell, Andrew Wharton, James Harvey, Nick Milton, Anne Sturdy, Julian Wheeler, Heather Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Moore, rh Michael Swales, Ian White, Chris Heath, Mr David Mordaunt, Penny Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Whittaker, Craig Heaton-Harris, Chris Morgan, Nicky Swinson, Jo Whittingdale, Mr John Hemming, John Morris, David Syms, Mr Robert Wiggin, Bill Henderson, Gordon Morris, James Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Williams, Mr Mark Hendry, Charles Mosley, Stephen Teather, Sarah Williams, Roger Herbert, rh Nick Mowat, David Thurso, John Williams, Stephen Hinds, Damian Munt, Tessa Timpson, Mr Edward Williamson, Gavin Hoban, Mr Mark Murray, Sheryll Tomlinson, Justin Willott, Jenny Hollingbery, George Murrison, Dr Andrew Tredinnick, David Wilson, Mr Rob Hollobone, Mr Philip Newmark, Mr Brooks Truss, Elizabeth Wollaston, Dr Sarah Holloway, Mr Adam Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Wright, Simon Hopkins, Kris Nokes, Caroline Tyrie, Mr Andrew Yeo, Mr Tim Horwood, Martin Norman, Jesse Uppal, Paul Young, rh Sir George Howell, John Nuttall, Mr David Vaizey, Mr Edward Zahawi, Nadhim Hughes, rh Simon O’Brien, Mr Stephen Vara, Mr Shailesh Huhne, rh Chris Offord, Dr Matthew Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Tellers for the Ayes: Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Ollerenshaw, Eric Walker, Mr Charles Stephen Crabb and Hunter, Mark Opperman, Guy Walker, Mr Robin James Duddridge Huppert, Dr Julian Osborne, rh Mr George Hurd, Mr Nick Ottaway, Richard NOES Jackson, Mr Stewart Paice, rh Mr James James, Margot Parish, Neil Abbott, Ms Diane Creasy, Stella Javid, Sajid Patel, Priti Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Cruddas, Jon Jenkin, Mr Bernard Pawsey, Mark Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Cryer, John Johnson, Gareth Phillips, Stephen Alexander, Heidi Cunningham, Alex Johnson, Joseph Pickles, rh Mr Eric Ali, Rushanara Cunningham, Mr Jim Jones, Andrew Pincher, Christopher Allen, Mr Graham Cunningham, Sir Tony Jones, Mr David Poulter, Dr Daniel Anderson, Mr David Curran, Margaret Jones, Mr Marcus Prisk, Mr Mark Ashworth, Jonathan Danczuk, Simon Kawczynski, Daniel Pugh, John Austin, Ian David, Wayne Kelly, Chris Raab, Mr Dominic Bailey, Mr Adrian Davidson, Mr Ian Kirby, Simon Randall, rh Mr John Bain, Mr William De Piero, Gloria Kwarteng, Kwasi Reckless, Mark Balls, rh Ed Denham, rh Mr John Laing, Mrs Eleanor Rees-Mogg, Jacob Barron, rh Mr Kevin Dobson, rh Frank Lamb, Norman Reevell, Simon Bayley, Hugh Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Lancaster, Mark Reid, Mr Alan Beckett, rh Margaret Dowd, Jim Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Bell, Sir Stuart Doyle, Gemma Latham, Pauline Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Benn, rh Hilary Dugher, Michael Laws, rh Mr David Robertson, Hugh Berger, Luciana Eagle, Ms Angela Leadsom, Andrea Robertson, Mr Laurence Betts, Mr Clive Eagle, Maria Lee, Jessica Rogerson, Dan Blackman-Woods, Roberta Edwards, Jonathan Lee, Dr Phillip Rosindell, Andrew Blears, rh Hazel Efford, Clive Leech, Mr John Ruffley, Mr David Blenkinsop, Tom Elliott, Julie Lefroy, Jeremy Rutley, David Blunkett, rh Mr David Ellman, Mrs Louise Leslie, Charlotte Sanders, Mr Adrian Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Engel, Natascha Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Sandys, Laura Brennan, Kevin Esterson, Bill Lewis, Brandon Scott, Mr Lee Brown, Lyn Evans, Chris Lewis, Dr Julian Selous, Andrew Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Farrelly, Paul Lilley, rh Mr Peter Shapps, rh Grant Brown, Mr Russell Field, rh Mr Frank Lloyd, Stephen Sharma, Alok Buck, Ms Karen Fitzpatrick, Jim Lopresti, Jack Simmonds, Mark Burden, Richard Flello, Robert Lord, Jonathan Simpson, David Burnham, rh Andy Fovargue, Yvonne Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith Campbell, Mr Alan Francis, Dr Hywel Lumley, Karen Skidmore, Chris Campbell, Mr Ronnie Galloway, George Macleod, Mary Smith, Miss Chloe Caton, Martin Gapes, Mike Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Henry Chapman, Jenny Gardiner, Barry Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Julian Clark, Katy Gilmore, Sheila May, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Sir Robert Clarke, rh Mr Tom Glass, Pat Maynard, Paul Soames, rh Nicholas Clwyd, rh Ann Glindon, Mrs Mary McCartney, Karl Soubry, Anna Coffey, Ann Godsiff, Mr Roger McIntosh, Miss Anne Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Cooper, Rosie Goggins, rh Paul McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Stanley, rh Sir John Cooper, rh Yvette Goodman, Helen McPartland, Stephen Stevenson, John Corbyn, Jeremy Greatrex, Tom McVey, Esther Stewart, Bob Crausby, Mr David Green, Kate Mensch, Louise Stewart, Iain Creagh, Mary Greenwood, Lilian 229 Secondary Education (GCSEs)26 JUNE 2012 Secondary Education (GCSEs) 230

Griffith, Nia Mactaggart, Fiona Reed, Mr Jamie Thornberry, Emily Gwynne, Andrew Mahmood, Shabana Reeves, Rachel Timms, rh Stephen Hain, rh Mr Peter Malhotra, Seema Reynolds, Jonathan Trickett, Jon Hamilton, Fabian Mann, John Riordan, Mrs Linda Turner, Karl Hanson, rh Mr David Marsden, Mr Gordon Robertson, John Twigg, Derek Harman, rh Ms Harriet McCann, Mr Michael Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Twigg, Stephen Harris, Mr Tom McCarthy, Kerry Rotheram, Steve Vaz, rh Keith Havard, Mr Dai McClymont, Gregg Roy, Mr Frank Vaz, Valerie Healey, rh John McDonagh, Siobhain Roy, Lindsay Walley, Joan Hendrick, Mark McDonnell, John Ruane, Chris Watts, Mr Dave Hepburn, Mr Stephen McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sarwar, Anas Whitehead, Dr Alan Heyes, David McGovern, Alison Seabeck, Alison Wicks, rh Malcolm Hillier, Meg McGovern, Jim Sharma, Mr Virendra Williams, Hywel Hilling, Julie McKechin, Ann Shuker, Gavin Williamson, Chris Hodge, rh Margaret McKenzie, Mr Iain Skinner, Mr Dennis Winnick, Mr David Hodgson, Mrs Sharon McKinnell, Catherine Slaughter, Mr Andy Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Hopkins, Kelvin Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, rh Mr Andrew Wood, Mike Howarth, rh Mr George Mearns, Ian Smith, Angela Woodcock, John Hunt, Tristram Michael, rh Alun Smith, Nick Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Irranca-Davies, Huw Miliband, rh David Smith, Owen Wright, David Jamieson, Cathy Miliband, rh Edward Straw, rh Mr Jack Wright, Mr Iain Jarvis, Dan Miller, Andrew Stringer, Graham Johnson, rh Alan Mitchell, Austin Stuart, Ms Gisela Tellers for the Noes: Johnson, Diana Moon, Mrs Madeleine Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Nic Dakin and Jones, Graham Morden, Jessica Tami, Mark Phil Wilson Jones, Helen Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Jones, Mr Kevan Morris, Grahame M. Question accordingly agreed to. Jones, Susan Elan (Easington) Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Mudie, Mr George The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as Keeley, Barbara Murphy, rh Paul amended, to be agreed to. (Standing Order No. 31(2)). Kendall, Liz Murray, Ian Resolved, Khan, rh Sadiq Nandy, Lisa That this House notes the forthcoming consultation on the Lammy, rh Mr David Nash, Pamela secondary school qualifications and curriculum framework; welcomes Lavery, Ian O’Donnell, Fiona the opportunity to address the weaknesses of the system introduced Lazarowicz, Mark Onwurah, Chi by the previous Administration, which undermined confidence in Leslie, Chris Owen, Albert standards, increased inequality and led to a reduction in the Lewis, Mr Ivan Pearce, Teresa take-up of core subjects such as modern languages, history, Lloyd, Tony Perkins, Toby geography and the sciences; and calls for proposals which are Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Phillipson, Bridget approved by Parliament and which are based on the principles of Love, Mr Andrew Pound, Stephen high standards for all, greater curriculum freedom, and a qualifications Lucas, Ian Qureshi, Yasmin and curriculum framework which supports and stretches every MacShane, rh Mr Denis Raynsford, rh Mr Nick child and which boosts social mobility. 231 26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 232

Defence Reform Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con): The motion calls for a reassessment of the “assumptions” on which the SDSR was based. Which assumptions does the 7.26 pm shadow Minister not agree with?

Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): I beg to Mr Jones: I know the hon. Gentleman takes a close move, interest in defence issues, but if he had read the Green That this House recognises the need for defence reform; notes Paper he would have seen that it takes a strategic look at with concern the speed and depth of redundancies and the threat the world. The SDSR was very rushed, and did not have to historic regiments and battalions; supports the armed forces the long public consultation and engagement with covenant but is anxious about the implications of changes to stakeholders that the 1998 review had. It was basically a Service pensions and allowances and the effect of these and other measures on morale; further recognises the necessity of an advanced Treasury-led review, which has resulted in some strange equipment programme but is worried about capability gaps, notably decisions that I shall describe later, which have affected carrier strike; calls on the Government to end disadvantage and the capability and capacity of our armed forces. discrimination against the Service community in order to strengthen the covenant; and further calls on the Government to reassess the Mr Gray: I am simply focusing on the word assumptions on which the Strategic Defence and Security Review “assumptions”. In the motion, the Labour party criticises was based. the assumptions that lay behind the SDSR. My opinion Let me begin by acknowledging the courage and is that those assumptions are absolutely fine—although professionalism of our armed forces and recognising I agree with the hon. Gentleman that some of the other the invaluable support provided to them by their families. detail was not so good. Which of the assumptions I know that that sentiment will be shared by all Members behind the SDSR does he not like? in the House. We ask servicemen and women to risk making the ultimate sacrifice, and to forgo many freedoms Mr Jones: I would talk about the developing situation in the name of our national security. Their contribution in the middle east, some of the decisions made post-SDSR to our safety must never be forgotten or underestimated. in taking away maritime capability, and the whole issue Opposition Members recognise that our armed forces of the deployability of our armed forces. All those cannot be allowed to stand still. The combination of decisions were taken within a financial straitjacket, changing threats in an increasingly uncertain world instead of addressing questions such as where we need with budgetary challenges means that we must be ahead to deploy in the world and what our priorities are. That of the curve in terms of technology and the tactics that has overridden the security needs that are so vital and we apply. We must be bold and practical in order to that were outlined so well in the Green Paper. create an efficient fighting force which serves the primary As a former Ministry of Defence Minister, I know requirement of our national security while also ensuring only too well that the easiest ways to make the kind of that we do the right thing on behalf of our servicemen in-year savings in the defence budget that are being and women and their families. demanded by the Treasury are to scrap capability or to The major conflicts of recent history are drawing to a make personnel cuts. However, the Government have close. Meanwhile, a wave of popular uprisings throughout scrapped important capabilities—Nimrod and the Harrier the middle east poses new challenges, as do new technologies fleet—without any plans as to how they will be replaced. and threats from cyber. Global changes will alter the It appears that Ministers have been inflexible in their balance of power, risk and how resources are allocated pursuit of short-term savings at the expense of our in the modern world. That is why Opposition Members long-term security. Too often we are given the impression support armed forces reform. Since May 2010, we have that the Government are presiding over decline, rather not opposed the Government simply for opposition’s than planning for the future. The Government must sake. National security and support for our armed reassess the security and spending assumptions on which forces are worth more than cheap political point-scoring, the review was based. although when we believe that the Government have made an error or strayed from their pre-election pledges, Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): we will righty criticise and scrutinise their decisions. How would a Labour Government have dealt with the We welcome the coalition’s commitment in 2010 to £38 billion overhang that the Conservatives inherited launch the security review. It built on the Green Paper from the previous Labour Government? Also, is the published by the last Government, and our commitment hon. Gentleman saying he would, in fact, spend more in the last Parliament to undertake a defence review. on defence than the current Government? He should be Unfortunately, however, the one thing the coalition explicit about that, but his motion is not explicit. Government’s strategic defence and security review was not was strategic. The SDSR has unravelled quickly, Mr Jones: I am glad the hon. Gentleman has asked displaying the same short-term, ad hoc and rushed about the £38 billion black hole, because it has become decision making that is becoming characteristic of many folklore, but the Government have not produced any areas of Government policy. The decisions that have evidence to justify that figure. Let me quote from an been taken have left Britain with serious gaps in its excellent Defence Committee report—which I am surprised defence capability. Events in the middle east last year—the he has not read as he is a former member of that Arab spring uprisings—were not foreseen, which meant Committee. It says: the review was rendered out of date almost as soon as it “We note that the MOD now state the genuine size of the gap had been printed. The Government were forced to use is substantially in excess of £38 billion. However, we also note the resources they had planned to scrap and bring back Secretary of State’s assertion that the ‘for the first time in a capability at very short notice. generation, the MOD will have brought its plans and budget 233 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 234

[Mr Kevan Jones] unimportant, but I have just quoted from the NAO report. That is possibly where Conservative central broadly into balance, allowing it to plan with confidence for the office first got the figure of £36 billion, but there is a big delivery of the future equipment programme’. Without proper difference between £36 billion and £38 billion. The detailed figures neither statement can be verified.” £36 billion is based on an assumption of a flat-cash We should also consider the evidence given to the budget over the next 10 years and every single item in Committee by the then Secretary of State. He promised the equipment budget being maintained, when everyone the Committee he would give details, but the final who has ever been involved in MOD matters knows report states, at paragraph 205: that things come into the equipment budget and things “We are surprised that this assessment has not yet begun and fall out of the equipment budget. expect to receive a timetable for this exercise in response to this Report.” Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): The Defence The £38 billion figure has been bandied around ever Committee was advised in one of its briefings that the since it was spun out of Conservative central office in projected figure of £38 billion included a roll-forward the election campaign. The Government have been asked of all items on wish lists—not things for which contracts on numerous occasions to justify it, but they have not had been let, but items the MOD had expressed a done so. They should. possible interest in purchasing for the future. This was, we were told, the equivalent of an individual becoming Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): On the subject of bankrupt because they fancied buying a Ferrari but wasting taxpayers’ money, the Government said last never actually bought one. week that almost £39 million had been spent on preparing the carriers for “cats and traps” and the variant carrier Mr Jones: I thank my hon. Friend for that. Let me aircraft, but the media says a quarter of a billion quote from the evidence given to the Select Committee pounds have been spent. How much money does my by the former Secretary of State. In response to a hon. Friend think the Government have wasted? question from a Member, he said: “There is a huge ability to reduce a very large proportion of Mr Jones: As with the £38 billion figure, the Government that. My guess is that of that £38 billion we are talking of are very good at not explaining their mistakes. The something like £8 billion to £9 billion, and that is a ballpark figure.” original figure was, I think, £37 million. It then rose to £39 million, but the MOD subsequently briefed that it During that evidence session, he gave a commitment to was £100 million. However, some informed sources say the Select Committee Chair that he would write giving that it could be upwards of £250 million. The Government details of how he arrived at that figure, but he did not. should state how much was spent in respect of that The Committee was still waiting for that information disastrous decision, which was taken at a time when the when the report was produced, but it did not appear. I defence budget was experiencing savage cuts. They seem heard one of the Government Front Benchers scoff to have swept this matter aside, however, as if it is not when I said that certain things move in and out of important. budget, but they clearly do. My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) is right: the Government racked up everything in the programme over a 10-year The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence period and assumed that it will all be delivered. That is (Mr Andrew Robathan): The hon. Gentleman is right: similar to the argument used about pension black holes, £38 billion is a huge amount of money. However, I the assumption being that all the money is paid out, should draw his attention to a note entitled: today. That is not the way the defence procurement “Note to Ed Miliband: Defence team work update”. budget is structured. It states that Labour needs to be “credible on defence spending and neutralising the ‘£38bn’ charge, Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab): The which is our biggest weakness.” Government obviously intend to keep the myth going, So the Labour Defence team think that that charge is and who could blame them for that? However, can my Labour’s biggest weakness. hon. Friend explain how, on two separate occasions—we should remember that this Government have only been Mr Jones: The Minister is making various assumptions, in power for a little over two years—two separate Secretaries which is not unusual for him. That note says precisely of State can have claimed that the £38 billion gap has what I am saying today, which is that we need to shoot already gone and that the budget is now in balance? If down this erroneous myth that has been put about by the imbalance was as large as they alleged, how on earth this Government. If he wants more evidence on this, he have two separate Secretaries of State been able to claim should read the National Audit Office “Major Projects within two years that the budget is in balance already? Report 2009”. It says of the defence budget: “The size of the gap is highly sensitive to the budget growth Mr Jones: My right hon. Friend, like me, knows the assumptions used. If the Defence budget remained constant in MOD budget very well. Clearly, what the Government real terms, and using the Department’s forecast for defence inflation have done is to take out in-year capability. We should of 2.7 per cent, the gap would now be £6 billion over the ten years. also remember the reductions in armed forces personnel— If, as is possible given the general economic position, there was no the people who are paying for some of this. My right increase in the defence budget in cash terms over the same ten hon. Friend is correct: the idea that such a big black year period, the gap would rise to £36 billion.” hole can be filled in two years is complete nonsense. Even the NAO did not reach the £38 billion figure, [Interruption.] The Under-Secretary, the right hon. Member therefore. I acknowledge that the figure it gives is £2 billion for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan), says that it is out and this Government seem to think such sums are 10 years, but that is not the impression the Government 235 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 236 have been giving. All their decisions, such as slashing right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East personnel numbers, are predicated on this £38 billion said, the idea that that figure can be wiped out in two black hole. Earlier last year, the previous Secretary of State years is an accounting fantasy. stopped using that figure—for a while. Suddenly, under the new Secretary of State, it has come back. The Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): Listening Government have got to explain their use of it, because to this debate, the one thing that is clear and that the it is the entire raison d’être for some of the cuts they are hon. Gentleman accepts is that there is a gap, be it making. £6 billion or £38 billion. Given that there is a gap, why did the last Government not balance the budget? Mr Jenkin: I remind the hon. Gentleman, the right Mr Jones: We were on line in that regard. One of the hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) jobs that my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry and the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) that North East gave me when he was Secretary of State—it the £38 billion figure was furnished to the Defence was something of a poisoned chalice—was to draw up Committee under the previous Labour Government some reductions. Just before the general election, I had when the hon. Gentleman was a Minister in the Ministry already identified some £1.2 billion of savings, but some of Defence. At the same time, Mr Bernard Gray produced of that involved investing money in order to save it. The a report saying that, on present plans, the MOD could problem at the moment is that the Treasury want instant order no new equipment at all for the next 10 years, so cash out of the budget, and the only way to do that is to dire was the state of its finances. It is only by bringing slash personnel and equipment straight away. The more defence spending within the Department back into sensible approach that we were going to implement was balance that any new equipment has been able to be a planned phase of three to five years, involving some ordered at all. investment and some reductions. That is in stark contrast to the Government’s approach. What is driving this Mr Jones: I am sorry but that is complete nonsense. process is not defence strategy but the desire of this The hon. Gentleman should read the NAO report that I Government and the Treasury to take 8% out of the budget referred to earlier, which makes the assumption that in years one and two. That has led to the short-termism many people have made in respect of flat cash. I will we are seeing now. read the quote again, because he has obviously not picked up the argument: Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): If the gap is “The size of the gap is highly sensitive to the budget growth a mere £6 billion, as the hon. Gentleman is suggesting, assumptions used. If the Defence budget remained constant in does he believe that that in itself is acceptable—yes or real terms, and using the Department’s forecast for defence inflation no? of 2.7 per cent, the gap would now be £6 billion”. There is a huge difference between £6 billion and the Mr Jones: Yes, because some of the programme was £38 billion figure that the Government are claiming. not committed. The former Secretary of State was asked Even if, in line with the NAO report, we assume a flat by the Defence Committee how much of that budget cash budget for 10 years, we only get to a figure of was committed, and quite a large portion of it was not. £36 billion. Where the Government get the extra £2 billion One approach could be to delay projects, as this from, I do not know. This issue was also dealt with in Government and the previous Government have done, Bernard Gray’s report, and as my hon. Friend the or to cancel them. Member for Bridgend said, the £38 billion figure is When the previous Secretary of State took office, he based on the principle that every single piece of equipment said that he was going to save a load of money by that was planned for would actually be delivered. However, renegotiating contracts with various suppliers. We have anyone who knows the defence budget knows that that yet to see a single example of his having been able to is not how things work. [Interruption.] I am sorry, but renegotiate procurement contracts and make great savings. the £38 billion figure is a fiction, and this Government [Interruption.] I am sorry, but I am not going to take have got to justify it, because they are using it to justify any lessons from the Conservatives on the carriers, some of their most draconian cuts, not only in equipment given that they have wasted upwards of £100 million but to the service terms and conditions of members of through a decision that—[Interruption.] The Opposition our armed forces. are shouting, but I do not remember either the Minister for the Armed Forces, the hon. Member for North Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): The hon. Devon (Nick Harvey), or the Under-Secretary of State Gentleman seems to accept that there is a gap and that for Defence, the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire, it could be up to £36 billion. What is the gap? saying when in opposition that the carriers should not be ordered. That is the problem: they were calling then Mr Jones: Let me read what the NAO report says—for not only for the carriers, but for a larger Army and a the third time: larger Navy, but now that they are in government they are doing completely the opposite. “The size of the gap is highly sensitive to the budget growth assumptions used. If the Defence budget remained constant in Dan Byles (North Warwickshire) (Con): Is the hon. real terms, and using the Department’s forecast for defence inflation Gentleman interested in the fact that the Royal United of 2.7 per cent, the gap would now be £6 billion.” Services Institute, which is known for being a very The figure of £36 billion is reached only if flat cash over independent-minded organisation, stated in September 10 years is included. Ministers said that the £38 billion 2011: figure is over 10 years—that is not the impression they “Whichever detailed assumptions are made, however, there have been giving to the media, the armed forces and the was no doubt that the funding gap was large and real. It would public. Instead, they have been suggesting that we somehow take considerable energy, and political cost…to escape from…It have to lay our hands instantly on £38 billion. As my was, in a very real sense, a black hole.”? 237 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 238

Mr Jones: That is fine—[Interruption.] Well, it is some through restructuring the Army and other things. fine; if it was true that the previous Government were The other point to make is that some of these things doing nothing to address the situation, that would not also needed investment, and I had been given clearance be the case. But if the Government are going to claim by the Treasury in some areas to invest to make longer-term that the black hole is £38 billion, there is an onus on savings. They were not just in-year savings to try to them to explain in detail exactly how they arrived at satisfy the Treasury and the deficit reduction programme that figure, because they are using it to justify every on which this Government are embarking. single reduction in defence expenditure that they are making. It is important that they do that. We had plans Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP): to balance the budget. Can we leave black holes to one side for the minute and concentrate on the Black Watch? On Saturday, the Christopher Pincher: The hon. Gentleman seems to colours of the Black Watch were lowered for the last be accepting that there is a black hole. He denies that it time, marking its passing as a regiment. It was the is a £38 billion black hole, but he will not say whether it Labour party that amalgamated the Scottish regiments is a big black hole or a little black hole. What was the and they are fighting for their survival now as a battalion size of his black hole? with cap badges, insignia and the heritage and culture that has been maintained. The Labour party moots a Mr Jones: The last Labour Government were committed threat to the battalions and our regiments, so will it to looking for efficiencies and reviewing the procurement support us in ensuring that their survival continues and contracts. So some of the things that were planned that the fantastic heritage and culture will be continued would not have been procured, which would have closed in the Royal Regiment? that black hole to which the hon. Gentleman refers. [Interruption.] He asks me what the size of the black hole was. He and others have kept saying it is a £38 Mr Jones: I understand people’s emotional attachment billion black hole, but if that is the Government’s sole to the regiments, and I understand the proud traditions justification for what they are doing, they should have and how they are held. However, I must say that I the guts to explain it to the public. always find the Scottish National party talking about this issue difficult. If we had an independent Scotland, Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): One of the battalions not only would many of these regiments doubtless have that recruits from my constituency, 3rd Battalion the their cap badges removed, but they would be abolished Mercian Regiment, is one of only two specialised altogether. The SNP’s so-called “campaign” on this mechanised infantry battalions. It is due to be disbanded issue is a little hollow, to say the least. The SNP needs to under the current proposals, so is it a proper use of explain exactly what the new Scottish armed forces public money for it to be disbanded only for these would be if Scotland were to be independent. Would specialised services to have to be recruited again? the Navy be something like fishery protection vessels? Would the Army be downgraded to some type of border Mr Jones: There are so many leaks coming from the force to patrol the border between Scotland and Ministry of Defence, some official and some unofficial, Northumberland? [Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman and it is not helping the process. We are seeing a comments from a sedentary position, but the SNP ludicrous situation whereby in order to claim that the claims to be supporting these regiments and the onus is headcount of MOD civil servants, in particular, is being on him to say exactly what the SNP is going to do if reduced, people are being made redundant only then to there is to be independence in Scotland, not only on be rehired as consultants, at huge cost to the taxpayer. regiments, but what the shape and format of the defence Last month, the Secretary of State told the House forces of an independent Scotland would take. I am that he had brought the MOD budget “back into balance”. sure that they would be a lot smaller and a lot more Every announcement or decision made by the Government ineffective than what we have now. I doubt whether they is based on that claim; he says that he has “balanced the would be larger, and I am not sure what their role would defence budget”. However, unless we get hard evidence be and whether they would be in or out of a NATO soon, it will remain impossible for us to believe those command structure. claims. Ministers must be honest with our armed forces men and women, who deserve to know the full picture Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): Will my hon. of the MOD budget so that they can understand why Friend give way? they are having to undertake the pain that they are taking under this coalition Government. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Before Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): The hon. Gentleman the shadow Minister takes that intervention, may I just has said that the previous Labour Government had point out that this is a time-limited debate and he has looked at making £1.2 billion-worth of cuts. Will he been incredibly generous in the interventions he has share with the House details of where those cuts would taken? That is not, however, to stop the intervention he have fallen? is about to take.

Mr Jones: One example is that we would have taken Anas Sarwar: I come back to that important point some strategic decisions on basing around the world. I about the separation of Scotland from the rest of the must say that, in the spirit of co-operation, I gave one of United Kingdom. Is my hon. Friend aware of comments the papers to my good friend the hon. Member for made by Alex Salmond, Scotland’s First Minister, earlier Aldershot (Mr Howarth) to assist him in the process. this year? He called the MOD plans exactly the sort of Some efficiency savings could have been made, including “configuration you’d want”. 239 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 240

Mr Jones: That is right, but this point about an Ministers’ claim to have balanced the budget. It is hard independent Scotland is not just about the regiments to see how they can justify their triumph when such and the size of the armed forces; it is about all the issues remain unresolved. The Minister’s comments on procurement. I am sorry, but many English shipbuilders the Portsmouth report would be welcome. will be arguing strongly for contracts to be placed with We now hear announcements from the MOD by English yards rather than Scottish yards if Scotland leak—either official or unofficial—and an interesting becomes a foreign country. We do not procure warships one is on the future of Defence Equipment and Support. from foreign Governments. The Chief of Defence Matériel is supposed to be pushing The Secretary of State’s statement dealt primarily forward the Government-owned contractor-operated with the 45% of the budget that is spent on equipment model. Restructuring is important in defence procurement, and support. There will be no 1% real-terms rise for the as we would all agree, but there are huge questions 55% that is spent on other areas of defence, including about the impact on accountability to Parliament of personnel. We are very concerned that this will result in privatising decisions that deal with many millions of a real-terms cut to the armed forces personnel budget, pounds of taxpayers’ money. particularly given that these costs tend to rise higher As for the carriers, the Government have sought to than the usual rate of inflation. Not only was the present themselves as economically competent and the announcement therefore less comprehensive than it was Opposition will resist the temptation to take Ministers spun to be in the newspapers, but it would appear that at their word. As was mentioned earlier, the costly, the limited investment in equipment budgets is coming unnecessary and humiliating U-turn on the British aircraft at the expense of investment in personnel, who are carrier capability meant that we ended up with a policy already suffering under the Government’s cuts to personnel that the Prime Minister had rubbished the year before numbers, allowances and pensions. So it is becoming and that millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money have clear to many that the Secretary of State has balanced been wasted at a time when the defence budget is being the budget on the backs of our brave service men and cut deeply. The Government must come clean and explain women, and Ministers will have to offer this House the in detail how much was squandered by that reckless information it needs to take these claims seriously. decision. [Interruption.] The Whip says from a sedentary position Britain is a proud maritime nation, but as a result of that that is a silly thing to say, but I think I might have a the decisions taken in the SDSR we are left with no little more knowledge of the intricacies of the defence maritime surveillance capability and with no carrier budget than he has. strike capability until at least 2017. Huge issues remain On the capital investment side, Ministers have not unaddressed. The Secretary of State has not decided factored in the costs of the proposals to withdraw how many aircraft he will purchase, just as he has British military bases from Germany. They will have a deferred his decision on whether a second carrier will be significant short-term cost, which they seem to have operational. He stated to the House that he would be conveniently just ignored. I considered that idea when I committed to “continuous carrier availability”, but that was a Minister and even four years ago the price tag was might now not be the case. some £3 billion. Again, that seems to have been conveniently With such a backdrop, it is not surprising that morale forgotten in this so-called new balanced budget. in our armed forces is low. Morale has been described as On top of all that, the Minister has failed to substantiate in freefall as a result of some of the decisions on the figure of £38 billion. I will not reiterate the points I redundancies, cuts in allowances and permanent pension have read out already, but I will add a third example. reductions. The Forces Pension Society has said that it Mr Jon Thompson, the director of finance at the MOD, has told the Public Accounts Committee that Ministers “never seen a government erode the morale of the Armed Forces were committed to producing a report in autumn 2011 so quickly”. on the extent of the so-called gap in the budget. We are I hope that right hon. and hon. Members have had the still waiting. That information is vital because the legitimacy opportunity to look at today’s report on housing by the of everything the Government are doing through the Select Committee on Defence. It shows that the cuts in defence cuts is predicated on that so-called gap. expenditure on improvements in forces accommodation I would be grateful if the Minister could answer a few are leading to real pressures in Army housing. questions. As the post-2015 1% rise is an “assumption”, could it be revised between now and 2015? What rate of Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): inflation was used to calculate the 1% real terms annual The hon. Gentleman mentions pensions and a number increase in the equipment budget between 2010 and of right hon. and hon. Members in the Chamber have a 2020? When will we get the National Audit Office’s particular interest in service pensions. No doubt they assessment of the MOD budget and, more importantly, will want to hear whether, if he were returned to office will the House have an opportunity to debate that report? in 2015, he would reverse the changes that have been The Secretary of State also needs to factor defence made. inflation into his calculations. It would be interesting to know what figure he is using for the real-terms cuts to Mr Jones: We need to consider armed forces pensions the 55% of the MOD budget that lies outside the as a whole, which is something else that I considered as equipment and support budget. Members might be a Minister. Many people do not realise that although aware of reports over the weekend, for example, that an the armed forces pension scheme is non-contributory, ongoing study of British shipbuilding might result in members of the armed forces pay for it through abatement the delay of one of the new aircraft carriers and the in their increases. As the Government have abandoned potential closure of Portsmouth dockyard, with a threat the Armed Forces Pay Review Body’s recommendations to some 3,000 jobs. That casts even greater doubt on the and our proud record on such recommendations when 241 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 242

[Mr Kevan Jones] Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. We are now on 46 minutes. we were in office, it is time to look at how armed forces pensions are dealt with as a whole. Interestingly, when I Mr Kevan Jones: Don’t worry. wanted to look more closely at such issues, the Secretary of State who resisted was Lord Hutton, who is now Mr Deputy Speaker: I am worried. It is no use telling advising the Government on pensions in general. The me not to worry because Members—I ought to warn issue needs to be considered as a whole—not only them now—may be down to a five-minute limit or less if pensions but abatement in pay, too. we are to get them all in. I wanted to let people know so In 2010, we were committed to spending £8 billion on they could alter their speeches. accommodation in the next decade, £3 billion of which was for improvements and upgrades. In contrast, this Mr Jones: I will take your guidance, Mr Deputy Government have slashed spending on housing by some Speaker, and not take any more interventions. On the £41 million. I remember that when I was a Minister and comments of the hon. Member for Newark (Patrick when my right hon. Friend the Member for Coventry Mercer), he knows that the recommendations put forward North East was Secretary of State, despite our record at that time regarding structure and names were put investment in accommodation, the then Opposition forward by the Army. were highly critical of what we were doing. Many in the Any uncertainty needs to be clarified. It is almost a armed forces will now be dismayed by their actions in month since the Secretary of State told the Royal United government. Services Institute that some units will inevitably be lost It is also important to listen to the armed forces or merged. Given that he has gone outside Parliament federations. Dawn McCafferty of the Royal Air Force to light bonfires of rumours, it is not acceptable for him Families Federation has commented that families felt as to throw more petrol on them by delaying. We are told though the covenant had already been broken within that the Ministry of Defence has signed off on this issue months of its announcement because of the cuts. Until now but that matters are being held up by Downing the fall in morale is acknowledged and acted on, many street for political reasons. That uncertainty is leading will question Ministers’ commitment to upholding the to a lot more rumours, which are causing more uncertainty. military covenant. In conclusion, when they were in opposition the A particular concern for us is the way in which Conservatives called for a larger Army, a larger Navy reductions in the number of armed forces personnel are and increased investment in the armed forces. In taking place. Two weeks ago, the Minister ordered yet government, their actions have been to do exactly the another tranche of redundancies affecting 4,100 personnel, opposite. It is not surprising that they are losing the 30% of which were compulsory. It is a great worry that trust of the armed forces community and the public so we are losing not only important skills but expertise and quickly. We in opposition want to support strong reform capability that we can no longer afford to lose. The on procurement and the principles of the military covenant public and armed forces community are quite rightly and we want the equipment programme to be improved. angry that individuals who are ready to deploy to Too often the Government have put austerity before Afghanistan are being given their P45s, despite all the security. I hope that in his response the Minister will not assurances given by the previous Secretary of State and just answer the questions I have put forward but will by this one. I know from experience that if we had also agree with the terms of the motion and the treated the armed forces in such a way when we were in recommendations regarding the assumptions of the government, Conservative and Liberal Democrat Members defence review to give those whom we ask to serve on would rightly have pilloried that decision. We feel it is our behalf, the confidence and certainty they deserve. only right to hold them to the same high standard that they put forward when they were in opposition, which 8.13 pm they seem to have conveniently forgotten now they are The Minister for the Armed Forces (Nick Harvey): Let in government. me start as the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) Many will be concerned by the rumours that are did—by paying tribute to the men and women of our circulating about the Government’s plans to cut regiments armed forces. The job they do is difficult, dangerous and battalions. Our regiments embody our proud history and sometimes deadly, but they do it with a professionalism, and the national prestige of our armed forces. Many commitment and courage that we have come to expect have served with distinction in the fields of Flanders, on but should never take for granted. This weekend is the beaches at Normandy and, more recently, in the armed forces day, which will give all of us the opportunity deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan. The Secretary of State’s to pay tribute to the contribution of the entire defence now-trademark lack of sensitivity when dealing with community. this issue is understandably creating anger among many The House will note that we do not have the pleasure serving in the armed forces and those who have retired. of the company of the shadow Defence Secretary this evening. No criticism attaches to him for going on a Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con): May I remind the defence visit to Australia or for staying on for a few shadow Minister that his Government cut and disbanded days afterwards. No criticism attaches to him for allowing regiments while they were on operations? They also the Secretary of State to honour a commitment to host wholesale disbanded historic regiments and invented Defence Ministers from several of our allies this evening. names from “Alice in Wonderland” for new regiments, The only criticism of the shadow Secretary of State is so there can be no lessons from the Opposition about that he has left the poor old hon. Member for North the maintenance of historic and honourable regiments. Durham the unenviable task of trying to move this Many of us wear the scars to bear witness to that. completely nonsensical motion. 243 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 244

Mr Kevan Jones: The Minister is correct that the I do not call into question the personal commitment shadow Secretary of State is in Australia—unfortunately of the hon. Member for North Durham, but he has to with the hon. Member for Devizes (Claire Perry), but I recognise that his motion opposes everything that this understand that they did not travel on the same plane so Government are doing and is pretty scant when it that is one good thing for him. He has stayed on after comes to proposing any alternatives. He says that he the defence visit because a member of his family there is recognises the need for defence reform, but the only seriously ill. That is why he is not here today. response in his motion is to be concerned, “anxious” and “worried” about how we are clearing up the mess Nick Harvey: I am sure we all wish the family member he made. He has not presented one properly costed plan well. I did say that no criticism attaches to the or given us a coherent alternative. He has not given us a shadow Secretary for his absence and I mean that most plan A, let alone a plan B. He needs to recognise that he emphatically. has to do better if he wants to hold us to account for what we have done. The matter before us is this nonsensical motion. It seems to say that the Opposition recognise the need to make the changes we are making, but the fact is that John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): they ducked these changes year after year. They went Does the Minister think the decision he has just criticised for 12 years without a defence review, with pressure was better or worse than switching to a “cat and trap” building up in the defence programme all the time, and system when first coming into office and then reversing there was a black hole of whatever size—we will come that decision at great cost only a year later? back to that in a minute—by the time of the strategic defence and security review. They left our armed Nick Harvey: I think it was a perfectly sensible alternative forces overstretched, under-equipped and underfunded to explore the “cat and trap” option. As we said at the for the tasks they were set. That is the legacy of the time, it would have given us the ability to project a much Government in which the hon. Member for North better aircraft type off the carrier. I think that to Durham served. The blame for the need to remove commission the detailed work on that proposal was platforms, reduce manpower and make the other reductions entirely responsible. If it ends up costing us the maximum, we have had to do sits very squarely at the previous as the Secretary of State suggested, of £100 million, Government’s door. They wrecked the economy, they that is a small sum compared with the £1.5 billion the wrecked the defence budget and they failed to make the previous Government added to the carrier project in changes necessary to prepare our armed forces for the one afternoon, when they announced from the Dispatch future. Box that it was to be postponed by a year. That was a The hon. Member for North Durham made heavy far greater drain on the defence budget than the relatively weather of the black hole. When we began the SDSR small bounded study, which unfortunately concluded process in the summer of 2010 we asked the officials that the costs of going ahead with the plan were such who were presiding over it at the MOD, “What is our that it was not viable. baseline and what is the true financial situation as we The shadow Defence Secretary has identified £5 billion start this process?” The explanation came that if we of cuts that he says he supports, but that would barely took the manpower commitments, all the overheads scratch the surface of the black hole that his party’s and all the committed expenditure, including the contracts Government left behind. Of course, his cuts are not that had been signed for procurement and those that new; they are already being made. On Labour’s current had been announced by the previous Government as public plans, the defence budget would still be in chaos. Ministry of Defence policy, and planned to bring them They have pledged neither to make any extra savings, on stream when the Labour party said they would be, nor to restore the cuts that have been made. What is over the 10-year period, there was a gap between all that interesting is not what they are saying in public, but what and a “flat real” terms assumption on funding—not a they are saying in private. Earlier, reference was made to “flat cash”assumption—in relation to the 2010-11 budget. the interesting correspondence between the Leader of We were told that the gap over the 10-year period would the Opposition and the shadow Defence Secretary. It is amount to £38 billion. It was a 10-year period because worth quoting the letter from the Leader of the Opposition that is the length of time over which the MOD plans its to his colleague, dated 23 January this year: budgets. “Youhave powerfully made the case in your recent interventions The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) said that there is no easy future for Defence expenditure and clearly in that that was an unreasonable thing to view as a starting the context of the current fiscal position we can expect to have to point. She compared it with the situation of someone make further savings after the next election.” who was about to go personally bankrupt aspiring to In public, the Opposition are against the cuts that we buy a Ferrari, but I do not think that is very kind to are making, but in secret, they are planning even deeper the right hon. Member for Coventry North East defence cuts. Today’s debate is not simply opposition, (Mr Ainsworth). When he came to the Dispatch Box a but opportunism as well. few weeks before Christmas in 2009, he announced that there would be 22 new Chinook helicopters. He did not sign a contract or find the money to pay for them but he Mr Kevan Jones: We said that at the last general announced there would be 22 new Chinook helicopters. election. What we were not going to do is rush the I do not know whether in the fantasy budget of the process. I challenge the Minister of State to place in the Labour party it does not think that that was a commitment, Library of the House the details of how he arrived at but it was one of the commitments that that Defence the £38 billion figure. Today he has said something that Secretary made, and it was on that basis that the £38 billion no other Minister has ever said: that the £38 billion is black hole was presented to us by officials. over 10 years. The impression has always been given 245 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 246

[Mr Kevan Jones] national debt, but may I pursue the point about recruitment and downsizing the British Army? Reports suggest that that it is there right now. Will he produce that information? 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers is to be Without it, some of the cuts he is making are not axed, despite being one of the best recruited battalions credible. in the British Army and forecast to remain so. Does the Minister accept that decisions about which battalions Nick Harvey: That is absolute nonsense. It has been to axe should be based on the ability to recruit? In that clear from the outset that the £38 billion figure was over case, the Ministry of Defence should be looking at the 10 years. I remember many a debate with the shadow Scottish battalions, which consistently have trouble Defence Secretary about whether we were talking about recruiting, with their numbers made up by English soldiers. the 10 years being measured out on the spending side in I would suggest that no Englishman should ever be flat real or in flat cash, and I have said again tonight forced to wear a kilt. that it was by reference to flat real. It has always been a 10-year figure, and the suggestion that we have magicked Nick Harvey: I urge my hon. Friend and all other £38 billion out of spending in two years is clearly hon. Members not to give credence to speculation about nonsensical; it has always been over 10 years. I am which battalions might end up having to be disbanded happy to give the hon. Gentleman further details of or merged. I repeat what I said at Defence questions: how we worked that out, but there is no getting away the decisions will be taken on the most objective criteria, from the fact that the Labour Government left behind a not on a snapshot of current recruitment. Those criteria massive black hole. The right hon. Member for East will be ensuring that we get the right balance of forces Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy) has identified a tiny number for the future, that we maximise our operational output of cuts that he thinks need to be made and he has secret and that we have the right geographical spread across plans to make more, but he is not prepared to face up the country, and that our long-term ability to recruit is the difficult decisions that have to be made to clear up assured. the economic inheritance across the piece and specifically in defence. Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): My grandfather, Transforming Britain’s armed forces by implementing Hugh Macdonald, served gallantly in the Black Watch the 2010 SDSR is necessary to recover capabilities after and is buried in the military cemetery in Gibraltar, a decade of enduring operations. It is necessary to where he died in 1941. I am sure that he was proud to prepare the armed forces for a future in which threats wear a kilt. There were Englishmen serving in the Black are diverse, evolving and unpredictable. It is necessary Watch then and now—indeed, the Liverpool Scottish to help to tackle the fiscal deficit and to put the defence part of the Black Watch comes up to Dundee every budget and equipment plan back into balance. We have year. Can the Minister of State give my constituents to build for the future with strict financial discipline, and serving members of the Black Watch some sort of making certain that the armed forces have confidence assurance that, on his watch, there will always be a that projects in the programme are funded and will be Black Watch? delivered. As my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State announced last month, the black hole has now Nick Harvey: I can give the hon. Gentleman the been eliminated and the 10-year defence budget is now assurance I have just given the House: the decisions to in balance. I readily acknowledge that Future Force be taken will be objective decisions against the four 2020 will be a smaller fighting force, but it will still be criteria that I have just set out. No one should give in to able to deploy a brigade-sized force on a sustained basis the temptation to believe what they read in the newspapers. on operations, or a divisional-sized force on a best effort. Pete Wishart: Scotland is suffering badly from what There was much criticism from the hon. Member for is happening in defence spending. Only four of the North Durham because we have had to reduce manpower 148 major Regular Army units are based in our territory. numbers, but it is worth noting that in the memo the That represents 2.7% of the entire British Army, yet we Opposition defence team sent back to the leader of have 8.4% of the population. Why is Scotland doing so their party, they said, in reference to Royal Navy and badly when it comes to defence cuts and defence spending? Royal Air Force personnel, that they recognised that there would be reductions in personnel numbers. On Army restructuring, too, the memo stated that they Nick Harvey: I do not accept either the analysis or the recognised the need for manpower reductions. So figures offered by the hon. Gentleman. Scotland does they recognise the need for the measures we are taking; well out of defence, and defence does well out of they just do not like the grim reality of having to do it. Scotland. We plan our defences for the defence of the United Kingdom as a whole in the most coherent way Despite all the changes that we are making, we will we can, and Scotland will do a great deal better out of still be supported by the fourth-largest defence budget being part of the UK’s defences than it will ever do if it in the world, meeting our financial responsibilities to goes on its own and plans its own defence force. NATO. We will configure the armed forces for a world where threats to our homeland and allies are increasingly Mr Jenkin: There is speculation that the process is to be found outside Europe, rather than on the north being elongated, perhaps over a number of months, German plain, and we will move from a heavily armoured because of political considerations. Does my hon. Friend force to a more mobile, adaptable and deployable force. accept what a large number of armed service men and women are saying—that uncertainty is extremely corrosive, Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): My damaging and morale sapping, and the sooner these right hon. Friend is right to take no advice from the decisions, however difficult and unpleasant they are, party that, when in government, more than doubled the can be made, the better? 247 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 248

Nick Harvey: I agree. Uncertainty always has a an 8,000 training margin. An Army of this composition destabilising effect. I can assure him and the members will have to be structured differently, and it is impossible of the armed forces that they will not have long to wait. to do that without losing and merging some units. However, it is more important that we get this right Although we cannot avoid difficult decisions as the than that we do it quickly. These decisions are a once-in- Army gets smaller, we will seek to do this in the most a-generation rebalancing of the Army’s structure. If we sensitive way possible, respecting the traditions of the get it wrong, the Army will suffer the consequences for Army, respecting the traditions of our great regiments, decades to come, so it is important to take a little time but always recognising that military effectiveness must and get it right. The House will not have long to wait for be the first requirement in designing our future structure. announcements to be made. Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): I commend Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con): We hear reports what my hon. Friend has just said. When we think that people are being targeted for redundancy and will about which TA regiments to keep, which to lose and therefore not qualify for their full pension. Is that where to put them, I urge him to bear in mind that a correct? If it is, will the Government look kindly on unit in the Territorial Army cannot be moved more those affected? than a very small distance without losing the people. It is even more critical than in the Regular Army to pick Nick Harvey: Let me say first to my hon. Friend that those that have an officer and soldier base that is well the issue of disbandment of battalions, which we were recruited; many units do not have such a base. It is vital just discussing, and redundancy have nothing to do that we build on the best ones. with each other, so nobody should read into the decisions that are taken about particular battalions that members of those battalions will be made redundant. In answer Nick Harvey: My hon. Friend makes a good point, to the specific question that he puts, nobody has been which is being taken into account as these difficult selected on the basis of their proximity to a retirement decisions are made. date, but inevitably it is the case that where there are The current financial situation makes it difficult to lines, some unfortunate souls will fall just the wrong act as swiftly as we would wish to address some of the side of the line. It is a matter of great regret, but the issues that make day-to-day life that bit more difficult redundancy payments will in any case be bigger than for personnel and their families. Mention was made of the lump sums that those personnel would have received the pause we have had to make on major housing at retirement. upgrades, but thankfully the £100 million additional investment in accommodation that was announced in Dr Murrison: In making the very difficult decisions the Budget will deliver more than 1,000 new and refurbished that my hon. Friend undoubtedly will have to make in single living and service family accommodation units. the near future, what attitude does he have to the very That will help the MOD to continue to meet its gallant men and women from countries other than the commitment, set out in the armed forces covenant, only United Kingdom who serve in our armed forces? How to allocate homes that are standard 2 or above. does he imagine they will be affected by the redundancy On the issue of the covenant, I start by recognising programme? the important work done by the hon. Member for North Durham, along with the right hon. Member for Nick Harvey: In no way will they be singled out. These Coventry North East, in preparing the ground for the decisions are being made in the most objective and publication of the tri-service armed forces covenant in scientific way we can make them, but inevitably some May last year, which built on many of the suggestions who serve from overseas will be affected and others will in their Command Paper. We have been able to double be more fortunate. There is no getting away from that. the operational tax-free allowance and we have improved Some of the reductions that are to take place will be rest and recuperation. Council tax relief has been doubled accounted for by reduced recruiting and fewer extensions twice since the Government took office, and now stands of service, but as I said, a redundancy programme is, at nearly £600 per person for a six-month deployment. sadly, inevitable to ensure that the right balance of skills In health care, we are investing up to £15 million in is maintained across the rank structures. Compulsory prosthetics provision for personnel who have lost limbs redundancy will not apply, as we have made clear from during service, extended access to mental health and the outset, to those in receipt of the operational allowance, increased the number of veterans’ mental health nurses. those within six months of deploying, or those on On education, we have set up scholarships for bereaved post-operational tour leave following those deployments. service children, provided financial help for service leavers In all cases it is for the individual service to determine who want higher and further education, and introduced how the necessary reductions can be achieved and over the pupil premium for the children of those currently what timeline, making sure that the right mix of skills, serving, making extra funds available for state schools experience and ranks are retained. with service children. More than 50 councils have signed The main programme for the Royal Navy and the up to the community covenant scheme with another RAF have been concluded, but protecting the Army’s 47 planning to do so, and there is a £30 million grant contribution to Afghanistan has meant that two further pot to support that. However, there is a long way to go. tranches are still to come for the Army. We will, as I For the first time, the armed forces covenant has been said, make an announcement on Army 2020 very shortly, formally published and recognised in legislation, and which will provide clarity on the future structure of the we are working across Government to ensure that no Army. We will have a land force of 120,000, composed disadvantage is faced by armed forces personnel, their of a Regular Army of 82,000, plus 30,000 reserves and families and veterans compared with other citizens. 249 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 250

[Nick Harvey] caused by the delay they imposed in bringing the successor into service when they first came into office. When the Every since the publication of the SDSR, the Opposition Defence Secretary boasts about balancing the procurement have been calling for another SDSR. They went 12 years budget, he knows that that has been made possible only in government without one, but they now seem to want by shifting the project’s cost profile to the right, largely another one every time the wind blows. We have put in out of this spending round, which is precisely what place a system for regular strategic review through the Conservative Members used to rail against from the National Security Council, and preparations for the Opposition Benches. The extra cost of refuelling the SDSR of 2015 are already under way in the MOD. existing Vanguard class submarines alone, which was However, none of the strategic assumptions underpinning made necessary by the delay, was estimated at between the 2010 SDSR have significantly changed, so we will £1.2 billion and £1.4 billion by the former Secretary of press ahead with the implementation of the SDSR based State. We are yet to hear the full cost of this exercise in on formidable, adaptable and high-tech armed forces, political management and short-term debt clearing. built on balanced budgets and supported by an effective Perhaps the Minister will seek to enlighten us when he and efficient MOD, taking the tough decisions that the winds up. previous Government ducked, providing our armed In their desperation to present a false image of order, forces with the tools they need to do the job we ask of the Government have gone beyond simply sweeping them, upholding the armed forces covenant, and protecting things out of immediate sight. Some projects have been this country’s national security, which is the first and subjected to the procurement equivalent of being hastily foremost duty of any Government. hurled out of the window, with little thought for the waste that that causes or, most importantly, the implications Several hon. Members rose— for national security. Any claim they might have made to have got to grips with defence procurement was Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I will surely destroyed by the farce over the aircraft carriers, have to bring in a five-minute limit on speeches and I which my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham may have to reduce it. If Members are good to each other set out well in his speech. and do not intervene too often, I hope to get everyone in. The final trick for those worried about their shoddy work being exposed is simply to turn off the lights. The 8.38 pm Government have produced no credible evidence today John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): or in the past about where this £38 billion has come We got a lot of heat from the Minister, but we are not from or how it will be filled in future. We are left with a much clearer on the key issue on which I want to lingering lack of certainty over the cost of big-ticket expand—defence procurement. My hon. Friend the items and the personnel are bearing the brunt, with the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) and my right Army that the Government promised to expand possibly hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North East set to get another whack. The books are cooked on the (Mr Ainsworth) have already made excellent points on assumption of long-term increases in MOD funding the issue. It is of course true that any incoming Government post-2015, and black holes, which were never properly at the last election would have had to make savings and described in the first place, are apparently filled. The the process could have been difficult. The Labour truth is that Ministers do not have a grip on procurement Government put in place the process to consider how or cost overruns and have failed to put considered we should do that, but the important thing was to learn policy and the defence interests of the nation ahead of and see where the next Government could improve. So political posturing. far, the signs are that this Government have comprehensively failed to do that. 8.43 pm When the right hon. Member for North Somerset Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): For (Dr Fox), who became Defence Secretary, was not the past 40 years, RAF Leuchars in my constituency making promises in opposition about increasing the has been responsible for providing air defence for the size of the Army, he used to tell the House how terrible northern half of the United Kingdom. It is ideally it was that Ministers increased the costs of projects by situated for the purpose, close to centres of population delaying them, but in government his party is doing and training areas, and easily able to deal with intrusion precisely that, with significant added cost to the taxpayer. by aircraft—formerly Soviet and now Russian—into As we have seen again today, Ministers are patting British airspace. Even as this debate takes place, there themselves on the back as if they have finally and are aircraft at Leuchars on standby to provide the quick magically squared the circle on defence procurement. I reaction alert, which is an essential part of our air defence. am afraid that what they have done is simply seek the Even as this debate is taking place, No. 6 Typhoon appearance of order, in the manner of a child tidying squadron has been stood up and is fully operational, his bedroom in great haste. They have done this in a and No. 1 Typhoon squadron is in the course of being number of ways. Some costs have been swept under the stood up. Even now, preparations are taking place for bed, increasing the burden on taxpayers and storing up one of the Royal Air Force’s few remaining air shows, risk for future years. In that category, of course, I which provides a valuable shop window, and it is able to include the successor deterrent. do that, in particular, because of the accessibility of Ministers can announce the necessary long-lead items RAF Leuchars to Scotland’s central belt. initiated in recent weeks with as much fanfare as they I have no doubt that a seamless and uninterrupted like—they know that I have welcomed the commencement build-up of the Typhoon force is essential to the security of each one so far—but they know that that is now of the United Kingdom. Is it true that Leuchars now being done to a tight timetable and with increased costs has a dedicated Typhoon engine bay? Is it true that 251 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 252 there is now a dedicated Typhoon ejection-seat facility with the skills that need to be nurtured in the area; and at Leuchars? Is it true that there is Typhoon-specific they are not just skills that we need to retain in design, survival equipment at Leuchars? Is it true that there are building, flying and the analysis of electronic intelligence Typhoon-modified power supplies and Typhoo-specific data, but skills that we cannot afford to see fleeing the IT systems already in place? It is suggested that the country for work abroad, as is happening now. Army might be sent in some form or another to Leuchars, The loss of the Harriers—sold for spare parts, we but it has not been possible to identify any capital were told—was based on the short-sighted assumption investment in advance of such a decision. that we can do without planes to fly from our carriers. We know that the proposal is to transfer to Lossiemouth, Ministers insisted that it was a good deal for the British but no preparations have been made there for the arrival taxpayer, but as one US rear admiral said: of Typhoon squadrons, which allows me, I hope, the “We’re taking advantage of all the money the Brits have spent colloquialism, “Leuchars ain’t broke, why is it necessary on them. It’s like we are buying a car with 15,000 miles on it.” to fix it?” The truth is that Leuchars is in the right place at the right time and doing the right job. We are losing our prestige overseas, and we should not underestimate how we have gone from being a respected Typhoon aircraft from Leuchars can be over London player on the international stage to being, in many quarters, 12 minutes sooner than Typhoon aircraft flying from pitied for what we have lost and can no longer do. Lossiemouth. The Olympics, as the head of MI5 identified only yesterday, will be a severe test of our security, but We have been well accustomed to the problems of that test is unlikely to end with the Olympic games, and defence procurement and the conspiracy of optimism the capacity to provide air defence throughout the that has led to delayed and expensive procurement United Kingdom will be an essential feature of our decisions, but the Ministry of Defence is in great danger future security. of falling into the same trap with its plans for Future I have a profound belief that the original decision to Force 2020. The plan seems simple—rebalancing the move the Typhoon aircraft from Leuchars to Lossiemouth armed forces to increase the number of reservists, thereby was based on financial and political considerations, saving money but gaining the benefits of the skills and which were put ahead of strategic obligations and of experience that reservists can bring. I have to say that the clear operational advantages provided by Leuchars. there is a shocking naivety in this plan. Members of our The financial case has been substantially undermined armed forces are tough, resilient people who welcome by the Army reductions that we have heard about, by the challenges thrown at them, but I fear that reducing the rejection of the building of a super-base at Kirknewton their numbers to 82,000 will mean that we face overstretch, near Edinburgh, by the inability of the Ministry of burn-out and a loss of capacity, skills and capability. Defence to obtain the sums originally estimated for the As part of Future Force 2020, a threat is hanging sale of properties such as Redford barracks, also in over many regiments, including the Queen’s Dragoon Edinburgh, and by the additional costs of transferring Guards. That is deeply unsettling. I make no pretence Typhoons to Lossiemouth and of operating from about the difficulty of the decision to be made, but the Lossiemouth once they have been transferred there. amalgamation of any Welsh regiments will be a bitter In my view, there is no question but that the deployment pill to swallow, especially given the Prime Minister’s of the Typhoon force should be revisited as part of the speech in the Welsh Assembly this time last year, when ongoing review to which my hon. Friend the Minister he said: referred but a moment or two ago. The original decision “While speaking about the part that Wales has played in our was flawed. It will be even more flawed if it is executed past and present, I want to put on record…here…my gratitude to in the way that is proposed. the brave Welsh regiments. From the trenches of northern France to the mountains of South Korea, they have fought and died in defence of our nation and values. Today, in Afghanistan, they 8.47 pm continue to serve with courage and distinction, and I pay tribute to them. For them, and for all the people of Wales, I will always Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab): I, like my be an advocate of this country and everything that it has to offer.” hon. Friend the Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), look at some of the defence reforms—I use the word “reforms”very loosely—and have to question the decisions Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab): My hon. Friend that were made, including whether they were in the best makes a very powerful point in reading that quote. She interests of the defence and security of the United knows just how angry people in Wales are about the Kingdom, or in the best interests of the Treasury-driven uncertainty facing the Queen’s Dragoon Guards. Does agenda to cut spending. she therefore welcome the Welsh Affairs Committee’s Chief among my concerns is the scrapping of the decision to carry out an urgent inquiry into this matter, Nimrod MRA4, which has denied us the ability to and does she think it important that we get the chance protect our nuclear deterrent and offshore oil and gas to question Defence Ministers in person? platforms properly; to gather intelligence of threats developing way beyond our coastline such as in the high Mrs Moon: I certainly do think it is very important north; to respond adequately to offshore emergencies; that the Welsh Affairs Committee looks into the issue, and to contribute to international efforts against terrorism but it needs particularly to consider the most important and piracy. part of it—the potential future of all three major Welsh The Government assumption that we can do without regiments. It is also right that Defence Ministers should maritime capability until 2020, with the replacement of be available to answer questions. In Wales, the sons, the MRA4 not being commissioned prior to 2015 and daughters, brothers, sisters and families of our regiments an average commissioning period of five years, is are deeply distressed at the potential loss of one of the nonsensical. We lost not just Nimrod, but the individuals regiments. 253 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 254

[Mrs Moon] our yards in building those ships. We therefore need to export more Royal Navy-designed ships. We also need Defence reform risks becoming defence vandalism— to make better use of the gaps in work in our yards, destroying trust, reputations, capability, capacity and rather than put the brakes on contracts, especially those skills that are urgently needed to protect our country in that will deliver much-needed and much-missed capability, these uncertain times. We in Wales take this extremely such as carrier strike force. seriously, because we risk losing important regiments There is a gap between the carrier work finishing and that make important contributions to the defence of the the building of the new Type 26 combat ship starting. UK. It is the equivalent of leaving all the windows and Rather than making the mistakes of the last Government doors in one’s house open to potential burglars and and paying for the work to be delivered slower, we going up to bed. However, it is not a burglar who I fear should use that time and money to do something more coming into the house that is the UK; it is a murderer, useful, using designs that we already have. We should who will murder us in our beds because we have failed build ocean patrol vessels and perhaps an ice ship, to put in place the protections that we need. which would certainly be of use. That would be a better use of public funds, retain the capability and provide 8.53 pm more options either to carry out operations or to generate funds for the Department. We must have no let-up in Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con): I draw the Government activity to hook in any buyer who is the House’s attention to my registered interest with the looking to purchase a combat ship. I know that Ministers Royal Navy reserve. are considering all those options. I have mixed views about today’s debate. I am always glad when defence is discussed on the Floor of the These are important issues, but on them, Labour is House, but it is very important that we build a consensus silent. It does not seem to be remotely interested in between all parties on these important issues. When the ensuring that the Government do the right thing, that Defence Committee requests time in this Chamber, it is we have the capability that we need or that we are always keen to have a motion that will not divide the getting value for money. Nor has it stated what its view House, and I have always tried to adopt that non-partisan is on the future of shipbuilding in the UK. Instead, over attitude in events and campaigns that I have run for the the past few days Labour’s press office has misled Royal Navy and Royal Marines—for example, in asking people in my constituency by saying that the Navy base the shadow Secretary of State to co-host last year’s will close. The Government could not have been clearer Trafalgar day event with me. in their statement that all three Navy bases will be retained. The shadow ministerial team know that. I I therefore approach an Opposition day debate on therefore hope that whichever shadow Minister responds defence with a heavy heart, but today I have a doubly to the debate will tell us what they think about shipbuilding heavy heart because I have to correct a falsehood that in the UK. At the very least, they should state that they has been running for the past few days, perpetuated by know that the Government are committed to the three Labour’s spin operation. I do not believe that the shadow Royal Navy bases. Secretary of State or his shadow Ministers would have been involved in this, but I hope that in winding up they The shadow Ministers should reflect on the actions will take the time to correct it. of their party over the past few days. If Labour wants to have a debate about the BAE Systems review, that is Portsmouth dockyard is the home of the surface fine. I will show up. In the meantime, I ask that it treats fleet. It has a wonderful natural harbour, which is being my constituents working in and with the armed forces dredged to house the new carriers. New power facilities with a greater degree of respect. are being built, and moves are afoot to put the vacant historic dockyard to new use so that it ceases to be a drain on the defence budget. The operational stress that 8.58 pm the carriers will be under will be considerable, so repair and support services must sit alongside the ships in Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): With all the pressure their home port. There is much activity, much investment on defence spending in this country and abroad, it is and more work for the dockyard’s partners and suppliers, hardly surprising that at the NATO summit in Chicago, most notably Rolls-Royce in my constituency. smart defence was one of the key items of discussion In the face of all that activity and progress, Labour and NATO pledged to do more with less. I believe that has spent the past few days telling those who work in NATO, like the Defence Ministries in its member states, the dockyard and their families that it will close. It has will deliver greater value for money if its expenditure is not been discussing the BAE review; it has been telling transparent, subject to independent audit and scrutinised people that the Royal Navy base is toast. That is a new by Parliaments in member states. low. Government Members have come to expect Labour NATO’s external audit function is overseen by the policy and its lines to take to be divorced from reality, International Board of Auditors for NATO, which consists especially where the economy is concerned, but I had of six board members who are nominated by the national thought, perhaps naively, that defence might warrant a delegations. The members rotate between the NATO more grown-up attitude. This sort of distortion is member states, so there is no continuity of oversight. indefensible not just because of the unnecessary hurt The IBAN board is accountable not to Parliaments, as and worry that is caused to people in my constituency, but is the National Audit Office in relation to UK defence because of the damage that it causes to British businesses. expenditure, but to the North Atlantic Council, the We have to retain a shipbuilding capability in the executive branch of NATO. The audits are carried out UK—it is a sovereign capability. To afford the Royal by 22 able members of staff, who are not independent, Navy ships of the future, we need a slower drumbeat in but are employed by NATO. 255 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 256

Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con): As an ex-NATO to build a coalition to change the audit function within officer, may I point out that the North Atlantic Council NATO and to bring the information, apart from that can sit in Prime Minister or President form, Foreign which necessarily must be kept secret for security reasons, Minister form, Defence Minister form or permanent into the public domain? representative form? Governments are therefore represented That information will drive improved value for money on the North Atlantic Council, to which IBAN reports. within NATO. NATO can hardly urge its member states to deliver more value for money if it does not take a Hugh Bayley: Governments are represented, but lead by doing so itself. Parliaments are not. The principle in the UK is that the National Audit Office belongs and reports to Parliament. It has reported to Parliament for 150 years on UK defence 9.4 pm expenditure, while obviously keeping secret things that Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con): I must necessarily be kept secret, so there is no reason declare an interest as a member of the Territorial Army. why we cannot have public reporting of defence expenditure. I listened with interest to the hon. Member for North NATO’s international board of auditors audited Durham (Mr Jones), who has just left his place. I 49 separate sets of NATO accounts last year. I recently thought he was a perfectly competent Defence Minister, met Tim Banfield, a director of the NAO who is responsible although not quite as competent as the Under-Secretary for UK defence audits. He told me that NATO’s financial of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member statements are frequently audited late, sometimes by as for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan). Having listened much as three years, which is not compliant with decent carefully to the hon. Gentleman’s remarks, I am clear accounting standards—auditors who are trying to track about several matters being pursued by the Government expenditure cannot find the answers to the questions that he does not support, but, given his acceptance that they need to ask three years after an operation has there is a deficit and that it needs to be addressed, I am closed down. I asked a Foreign Office Minister how less clear about what exactly the Labour party would do good the audits are, because they are not published. He to address it. I hope that in her winding-up speech the told me that of the 49 sets of accounts last year, 14 were hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) qualified by the auditors because of irregularities. will explain to the House exactly what the Labour party In addition to the financial audits, five performance would do to deal with the deficit. Without that explanation, audits—value-for-money audits—were carried out last I fear that many of its claims will look rather hollow. year, but there is little evidence that NATO changes I want to focus on the plan for an integrated Army by how it works to improve value for money in response to 2020. I congratulate General Carter on his review. Frankly, their conclusions. Only one of those 49 sets of accounts he was handed a poisoned chalice, but he has managed has been put into the public domain, according to to deliver an optimal military solution from very clear NATO’s website. terms of reference. I want to be equally controversial by The failure to publish accounts reduces the pressure saying that sometimes arguments in the House about on NATO managers to respond to deficiencies when which regiments should be saved leave me slightly cold. they are revealed by audits, and to improve their I understand the historic significance of many regiments, performance. I raise this matter with the Minister now and it is right that hon. Members should defend those because I believe there is a narrow window of opportunity regiments, but ultimately, if I were a senior officer, I to change things, because the NATO Secretary-General would be holding my head in my hands, because, following has commissioned the new deputy Secretary-General to this review, politicians are now tinkering with it and review the audit function. I shall share with the House a seeking to influence the decision for reasons based on brief extract from a document provided by the Secretary- political grounds, rather than optimal military grounds. General to national delegations, including the UK It is not beyond the wit of the British Army to save ambassador to NATO. The Secretary-General said: various regimental cap badges, so I think that my hon. “We must adopt best practices employed by other international Friends should relax—I am sure that these cap badges organisations. NATO is very unusual in having its own auditing will be saved. Instead, we must focus on the optimal service…Organisations that employ external public-service auditors military solution. include UNESCO, WTO, OSCE and the OECD. The integrated Army 2020 proposition, the skeleton To bring us into line with best practice, I propose the adoption of which was unveiled earlier this morning at the Royal of the same approach, phased in to ensure continuity of work.” United Services Institute land warfare conference, is a He goes on to make the point that the only other body neat solution to dealing with a period of strategic that does not have an independent external audit function uncertainty at a time of economic austerity, and inevitably is the EU, from which some hon. Members would not it involves smaller land forces. Indeed, it proposes a like to take lessons in that respect. reduction in the regular force from 102,000 to 82,000, The NATO Secretary-General clearly wants change, countered by an increase in the trained reserve forces to but the decision will not be made by him; it will be made about 30,000, with an additional 8,000 under training. by the North Atlantic Council. Will the UK representative It aims to deliver an Army designed to meet the capability, at the North Atlantic Council, whether our ambassador, aspirations and commitments of the strategic defence one of our Ministers or the Prime Minister, support the and security review 2010. change agenda? Will the deputy Secretary-General’s Equally, however, the proposal has to deliver contingent report be shown to the NAO and the supreme audit capabilities and meet the requirements of the Government’s institutions of other member states, such as the US “Building Stability Overseas Strategy”, published last Government Accountability Office, for comment before year. Although I am confident that General Carter’s it is shown to the North Atlantic Council? Will our proposals provide an optimal military solution for the ambassador lobby representatives of other member states requirements of the SDSR, some cross-Government 257 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 258

[Mark Lancaster] with some 1,900 of them currently being mobilised in support of the Olympics and some 700 on operations in work is clearly still required to flesh out how this Afghanistan. I hope that hon. Members will join me upstream engagement in fragile states will be delivered in celebrating their reservists, although they do not have in order to meet the requirements of the overseas stability to go as far as I will by wearing my uniform tomorrow. strategy. It is here, I believe, that the unique specialist skills that so many members of the reserve forces possess 9.10 pm should be utilised. As I understand it, the proposed force structure aims to hold defence capabilities at Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab): different levels of readiness based on a balanced mix of This is the first opportunity I have found in the reaction and adaptable forces. It is key, however, that to parliamentary calendar to make any remarks about the deliver this desired outcome, the Army must be able Government’s defence procurement White Paper, which predictably to integrate its regular and reserve components, came out in February. Unfortunately, it was issued as a with the reserves likely to be required routinely to written ministerial statement, so there was no opportunity undertake roles such as providing for the UN battalion for debate. I do think it is worth looking at what that in Cyprus, as it has done sporadically in the past. defence procurement White Paper says. On a number of occasions, I have raised with Ministers my concerns, At the heart of the plan is a progressive move from a which arose out of spending the last nine months, along reserve force that provides individual augmentees for with many trade unionists, employees and family members, current operations to one that delivers a scalable, adaptable fighting for workers at BAE Systems in Brough, who response by individuals to formed sub-units. This aspiration are facing 800 or 900 redundancies. would certainly be welcomed by the TA, but will be welcomed by the Regular Army only if the TA can be We have heard a lot this evening about being in relied upon to deliver. For the individual reservists, this economic difficulties and about the deficit that we need calls for sustained commitment to regular training to get down, and it seems to me that defence procurement attendance and predictable periodic mobilisation. This provides potential not only for growth but for defence is undoubtedly an ambitious target, but it can be achieved. exports. I think the Government are missing a trick in It is important to realise, however, that there must be this area. My understanding of the White Paper is that not only the military will to achieve it but significant the Government are moving towards open procurement, political will and leadership, if the structure and reliance buying off the shelf and getting good value for money, on reserves is to work. that there is no preferential treatment for British industry or British manufacturers and that they will protect the Bob Stewart: There is one other requirement: money operational advantage and freedom of action of this for the reserves to train properly. Otherwise, they cannot country only where it is essential to national security. As attain the same level as the regular forces. I said, the economy is flatlining and we are in a double-dip recession, but we know that countries that invest in, and buy from, their own home-grown defence industries do Mark Lancaster: I agree. Indeed, I would argue that the best at exporting around the world. That makes ambition without funding is simply hallucination, which sense: if a Government are willing to buy from their is why I am delighted that £1.2 billion has been allocated own industry, it shows a commitment to, and a belief in, for this upskilling of the reserves. providing the very best. That is absolutely what we want I have two concerns about the upskilling, however. for our armed forces. First, I want to add to the comment from my hon. Brough is the home of the Hawk, and when the Red Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier). When Arrows go around the country and the world flying the it comes to the reserve units, we must be careful, because Hawk, people know that it is an excellent, British- a larger TA might actually result in a smaller footprint. manufactured plane. The Red Arrows display amazing We must be careful about which TA units we close, acrobatic aeronautical feats, showing again Britain’s simply because, as I know from my experience as an excellence in manufacturing. My real concern, then, is officer commanding a squadron, we cannot simply move about the Ministry of Defence’s approach to future personnel and expect them to move units and travel procurement, as it seems to treat itself as if it were a some 20 miles to continue training. private company, just looking for best value and not Equally, I am convinced that there must be a compulsion recognising that it is part of the Government as a whole. to train. At the moment, we simply have a gentlemen’s The Government have a commitment—the Opposition agreement to turn up and train with the TA. Without support them in this—to growth and rebalancing the that compulsion, I fear that the reserves cannot fulfil economy. the commitment that they are being asked to make. We An interesting piece of work has been done on “The are fortunate that section 22 in part III of the Reserve Destinations of the Defence Pound”. It is a RUSI—Royal Forces Act 1996 already allows for compulsory training, United Services Institute—pamphlet written by Trevor but we need to look carefully at how to implement it, so Taylor and John Louth. They point out that buying off that we do not end up offending employers, who might then the shelf has a negative effect on Government revenues not wish to allow their reservists to go and train. It is a so it does not help the country to deal with the public very difficult circle to square. Equally, we need to look sector deficit. Buying British, on the other hand, will ensure at TA regulations to ensure that bounty and tax repayments that British taxes are paid during the course of the for people who are fit for role can be adjusted to ensure procurement process, and there is likely to be a British that such compulsion can be taken into account. supply chain, too. The pamphlet shows that spending In my last 27 seconds, I would like to highlight to £1 million will lead to a 36% return to the Exchequer hon. Members that tomorrow is “wear your uniform to via tax, national insurance and other means. It does not work” day, which is a celebration of our reserve forces, go into the wider benefits, which would obviously include 259 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 260 jobs—a key issue for the Government and the Opposition I also hope that we will help more armed forces at this time. Then there are all the other multiplier families to get on to the property ladder. I hope that we effects of buying from the home defence industry. If the will do something that will cost my right hon. Friend Government buy abroad, that money—those taxes—will the Secretary of State nothing, and prevail on the go to another Government, and will be lost to us. Chancellor to prevail on the banks to offer more forces- It would be helpful if the Minister said something friendly mortgages to help servicemen and women and about the European procurement defence directive, and their families to secure a fixed address, a stable home, about the need for us to monitor carefully what other and a foot on that property ladder. If we send people countries are doing. Why does the United States of abroad to fight for us, it seems only right and proper America, when it purchases defence items, demand that that we should help them to get a decent home, at home. they be produced in the United States, and why, in most Such action would also help to reduce the £285 million cases, is any company applying to that market required a year that it costs to service 50,000 homes for forces to have a United States partner even to get a hearing? personnel, some of which is sub-standard. I should like the Government to hold a proper debate The motion suggests that the Opposition still want to on procurement, because I think that it might give them make the armed forces covenant very prescriptive. That an opportunity to get themselves out of the economic flies in the face of the messages that we receive from difficulties into which they have got themselves since the service chiefs and from the armed forces families’ May 2010. Given that we are now in a double-dip representatives, who have said that they want a much more recession, such a debate might be of help to them. flexible and current armed forces covenant that can respond to the current concerns of our armed forces. 9.15 pm I conclude by quoting Bryn Parry, founder of Help for Heroes. He said in the Armed Forces Bill Committee Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con): In the light just 12 months or so ago: of your injunction, Mr Deputy Speaker, I shall shorten “I have never seen something written down or the principles of what I was going to say, and speed up what I am going something discussed or made into law work as well as somebody to say, in order to stay well within the time limit. who gets up and says, ‘Right, this is what I want to happen. Let’s It is a pleasure to speak in the debate, occurring as it make it go.’”––[Official Report, Armed Forces Public Bill Committee, 10 February 2011; Q336.] does on the 150th anniversary of the first investiture of the Victoria Cross in Hyde park. My constituent Samuel That sums up what the armed forces covenant should Parkes—a long-dead constituent, I should add—was be: a flexible arrangement and a current arrangement—and the first private soldier to receive the Victoria Cross, so I trust my right hon. Friend the Minister will make the debate has extra significance and resonance for my it go. constituents. I was pleased and privileged to serve on the Committee 9.20 pm that considered the Armed Forces Bill, which became the Armed Forces Act 2011 and which enshrined the Mr Elfyn Llwyd (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): Members armed forces covenant in law. Although it is fair to say may know of my concerns regarding the number of that the Opposition were broadly supportive of the military personnel who end up in trouble after leaving implementation of the covenant, it is also pertinent to the services, and sometimes end up on the street. The point out that it was implemented within a year of the Welsh Affairs Committee is currently taking evidence coalition Government’s inheriting a parlous economic on that, as well as on the regiments question. state. The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Wales has traditionally provided more than our share Doyle) was involved in the Committee stage of the Bill. of military personnel. It makes sense that returning It is clear that the Opposition, although they played Welsh veterans—and, indeed, returning English and their part in the covenant’s implementation, had 13 years Scottish veterans—should be treated as close to their in which to introduce a covenant themselves. They had families as possible and should have their fair share of the time, the money and the majority to introduce one, resources from charities and the UK Government, to yet they failed to do so. I am pleased that they appear to help them recover from their injuries. Having seen how be supporting what we achieved tonight. the US treats its veterans, I am sure there are lessons we We in Tamworth recruit heavily to the 3rd Battalion can still learn. Some of the earlier comments on the The Mercian Regiment, the former Staffordshire Regiment. covenant are most welcome, however. Housing is one of the biggest issues raised by my Certainly one lesson we can learn is the importance constituents who are in the forces, and by their families. of ensuring that former members of the armed forces Given the strides that we have already made in improving do not feel that they are left behind when they are housing, I hope that, as the Strachan report is implemented discharged from the services. The cuts that have happened, and as we proceed with the covenant and report on it, and those that are currently taking place, must take into we will do three further things. account the need for support networks to be in place for I hope that we will increase the accommodation them. allowances that are available to our servicemen and In Wales, there is a great deal of concern about women, and will expand the pilot shared equity scheme proposals to merge or disband Welsh regiments such as that was introduced by the last Government. I know the 1st The Queen’s Dragoon Guards, also known as that the Minister for Housing and Local Government, the Welsh cavalry, and The Royal Welsh, which includes my right hon. Friend the Member for Welwyn Hatfield battalions from the Royal Welch Fusiliers and the Royal (Grant Shapps), has announced that £400 million will Welsh Regiment—it was only recently put together, and be spent on helping 10,000 families with the Firstbuy one would have thought it would have stayed in place scheme. for a while. 261 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 262

[Mr Elfyn Llwyd] 9.25 pm Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): It is a great honour The reduction in the number of Welsh regiments to to contribute to this debate. I begin by paying tribute to three has already left a bitter taste, and further cuts will all members of the armed forces for the fantastic work lead to a feeling that Welsh regiments are not being they do. I attended the trooping of the colour and I recognised and appreciated for their effort and dedication. noted that many had recently returned from the line of Successive generations have joined the Queen’s Dragoon fire and were still performing absolutely magnificently. Guards and fought with pride, honour and determination. That is emblematic of our armed forces, and we should Some argue that this is due to the method of recruitment, always remember them and salute them for that. with cultural ties and local knowledge being part of both recruitment and loyalty. New recruits should have I want to make a general point about returning the opportunity to choose an armoured regiment or soldiers from Germany, because clearly that is happening; infantry regiment in which they will feel comfortable in my constituency there are several who are in need of and safe in the company of their peers while facing support from organisations such as Family Lives. It is potentially dangerous circumstances. However, despite important to recognise that such major transitions do the Queen’s Dragoon Guards carrying out more operational take place. tours in the past 20 years than any other armoured On the black hole that we were discussing previously, regiment, it is under threat of amalgamation. That is in I want to make clear what I think a black hole is: a great spite of its being the only remaining Welsh armoured expenditure commitment over a long period for which regiment. If these decisions are made, on the order of there is no money. That was the situation under the last precedence under the Ironside/Levy rules, both the Queen’s Labour Government, and there definitely was a £38 billion Dragoon Guards and the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards black hole. It has now effectively been filled in and will be maintained. concreted over by our Government, but a black hole is what I have just said it is. There are six objective criteria to be met in this regard: recruitment strength, or the number and quality The motion also refers to the possibility of changing of those who wish to join; regional or national identity; the assumptions on which the strategic defence and proportionality to all parts of the UK—we are not security review are based. In fact, many of the assumptions looking for favours; the right geographical spread, as the Government made two years ago were absolutely the Minister who opened the debate said; capabilities; right and stand the test of time; but obviously, there are and operational output. I believe that, on these criteria, nuances that one must bear in mind and adjustments the case has been made for maintaining these important one must make. and historically significant Welsh regiments. The interesting move that the United States has made in refocusing its efforts towards the Pacific and Asia is a On Trident, last week the Government announced fascinating one that we as a country should be mindful £1.1 billion of investment in infrastructure that will of in having a flexible approach to our naval forces. I make the next generation of Trident missiles. Although noted that, while dealing with Libya, we did not actually the main gate decision will not be made until after the need an aircraft carrier. Because we had sensible next general election, by investing so heavily, they are, in relationships with allies, we were able to accomplish effect, pushing us towards the decision, so that, as with quite magnificent feats with our fixed-wing aircraft. We the aircraft carriers, it becomes a fait accompli. have to remember that the advantage of having good This has been done without a proper discussion or a allies—an assumption that we made as part of the debate on the Floor of the House. Opponents of Trident SDSR process—is absolutely critical. object for a variety of reasons: some because they are We should also celebrate the Government’s creation pacifists, others because they do not believe that it of a National Security Council, which brings together represents good value for money or a meaningful deterrent. foreign affairs, international development and defence. Large numbers of young men and women are being Without an appreciation of our foreign affairs objectives, made redundant from the conventional armed forces we will not be very successful at putting together a over the coming years, and regiments will be lost, but defence strategy. This Government have understood the there is enough money for these weapons. direct and obvious link between those areas, which is However, in Wales Labour First Minister Carwyn why we are so much better at calibrating, assessing and Jones, apparently wants these nuclear weapons based understanding our defence needs. near the major international trade port that deals with Clearly, we need hardware, and one good thing we are 30% of UK gas and 25% of UK oil and petrol. The oil introducing is heavy-lift capacity, which we do need. It refinery was the reason why Polaris was not sited at is great that Airbus, in the form of the A400M, is part Milford Haven in 1963, and it is unclear why a busier of that package—an aircraft that is doing extraordinarily location would be considered today.According to Chalmers well elsewhere. The quality of our surface fleet is also an and Walker in 2002, important issue—new frigates and destroyers that are “it remains the case that refineries would have to close if submarines up to the necessary standard for the tasks that we have. were relocated there.” On aircraft carriers, it was absolutely right to look at what is happening with the new Gerald R. Ford-class Therefore, this man is arguing for Trident to come to carrier in the United States, which has the electronic Wales, for weapons of mass destruction to be sited on “cat and trap” system. It must have been tantalising for Welsh soil and for there to be a net loss of jobs for us to consider, certainly given our relationship with the Wales—not, I think, a very good deal. French and their one aircraft carrier, which is also cat and trap. We did not go down that route, but it was Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I am sensible to consider it, because we have to make the introducing a four-minute limit. I call Neil Carmichael. right decisions in the long run. 263 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 264

9.29 pm 9.33 pm Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): I wish to Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) start by talking about the young men and women who (Con): Thank you very much for calling me in this serve in our front-line services. I pay tribute to all debate, Mr Speaker. members of the armed services, be they in the back room or on the front line, but special consideration has I agree with the comments that my hon. Friend the to be given to those on the front line, such as those in Minister for the Armed Forces made about how important Afghanistan and Iraq. I went to Afghanistan in 2007 this weekend is going to be, as it is national armed and met some of the young men who were fighting for forces weekend. Not unnaturally, I am delighted to have us. They were 18, 19, 20, and they were being faced by this opportunity, because my constituency of Plymouth, and had to see all sorts of cruelties. They had to face so Sutton and Devonport, more affectionately known as much hurt and they had to see so many injuries among “Guz”, is going to be the national focus for the armed their comrades. When they come back, we need to look forces weekend. Plymouth is the home of 3 Commando after their physical and psychological needs. That means Brigade, the Royal Marines and flag officer sea training, that if they have been injured in combat, all the best and it has an enormously big heritage, of which we are treatment should be made available to them. Even if incredibly proud. I pay tribute to Commander Crichton they have not suffered any physical harm, they must be for all his hard work in putting together the national treated in respect of their emotional and psychological armed forces weekend. needs as well. They must be supported appropriately During this debate we have heard a great deal about when they leave the Army and come into civilian life. how we need to make an assessment of where we are That means that if they want to go to university, they going. In my submission to the strategic defence and should be given free tuition. Although we rightly always security review, I made it clear that Britain is a maritime pay respect to our fallen heroes, we forget that what nation, and we need to protect our sea routes. That people are exposed to in war and in battles is an means that we have to ensure that we are not sea blind. experience that nobody else is ever going to see and The Royal Navy’s role is to ensure not only soft diplomacy hear. So we should spend a lot more money on looking but that we can engage as and when Parliament decides after our armed personnel who have served on the front where to go. It is a tool of foreign policy; indeed, some line when they come back. people would say that it could be a provisional tool in It is also important to equip these people properly foreign policy, too. when they are on the front line. They should be properly I welcome the building of the aircraft carriers, but we trained, and the armour, the helicopters and everything need to ensure that when we move on to the next else that is required for them to do their job properly tranche of the SDSR we look long and hard at how to should be in place. That also means that the right ensure that the supporting frigates are included. amount of personnel should be there; 100 people should not be sent to do a job that requires 300 soldiers to do it. Plymouth has a good story to tell about its harbour, That means that the Government should reconsider the which is the finest natural harbour in the world. It sits abandoning of certain regiments. The fighting force, the on the western approaches and is the one place in the infantry and the regiments that go out to fight should United Kingdom that can deliver the refuelling and not be reduced. One of my constituents who served in refitting of our nuclear submarines. That is our stake in the Yorkshire Regiment, which was founded by the the ground. I believe it is important that we retain our Duke of Wellington, says that it is one of the best nuclear deterrent, because it is important not only regiments and has received many Victoria Crosses for strategically for our country but for my local economy, the services it has rendered to the country, so I ask as 25,000 people are dependent on the defence industry. Ministers to reconsider reducing the number of soldiers on the front line. Our dockyard was consistently under threat for the time that the Labour party was in power and I am We are told that some of these re-evaluations of our delighted by the hard work my right hon. and hon. defence expenditure are to do with the money. I want Friends on the Treasury Bench have been able to do in the Minister, and indeed Labour Members, to consider government to ensure that we can secure its future. The whether we really need Trident. I know that people Government have been successful in ensuring not only think that this is a debate of the left, but everyone that we will retain our Type 23s but that the £350 million knows that four years ago a number of generals and refit of HMS Vengeance will take place in Devonport. senior people in the Army and the Air Force said that The Government have been rebuilding confidence in Trident is actually irrelevant and is no longer required, Plymouth and Devonport, ensuring that we can do the as a result of the end of the cold war. They have also very important job of engineering research, too, said that it is not ready to deal with the current levels of and making us one of the global leaders in maritime international terrorism. The generals set that out in a activity. letter to The Times in January 2009. I have copies of the documents where they have asked that more money be I am surprised by the Labour party’s approach and spent on conventional forces, which we require to deal ask them to reconsider it. We need to ensure that those with the imminent threats we face. As I said, those involved in our armed services have support in education, people are not pacifists and they are not people who do that they have decent housing and that they have provision not know what they are talking about; they are— to deal with mental health issues. We must work hard on that. This has been an important debate and we must ensure that we continue with the armed services covenant. Mr Speaker: We are extremely grateful to the hon. I will welcome the opportunity to listen to the next Lady for her contribution. I call Oliver Colvile. debate on the subject, which will be important. 265 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 266

9.37 pm by my hon. Friends the Members for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi) and for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): Britain Rotheram) among others. Our forces do what is asked has a proud military history and throughout that history, of them without question or hesitation and they often sailors, soldiers and airmen served our country with a place their lives on the line to protect others. I am sure courage and bravery that has become synonymous with that the national event taking place in Plymouth this the British armed forces. It is a pleasure to place on the Saturday will be a great success. In West Dunbartonshire record tonight my appreciation for our armed forces, as we celebrated armed forces day on Sunday past with a I will when I attend a ceremony in Liverpool town hall march-past in Dumbarton high street and a service in on Saturday. I will be remembering the eight brave men Riverside parish church. from Liverpool who made the ultimate sacrifice in Afghanistan, but of course the deaths of those brave There is no doubt that the armed forces will face men do not tell the full story. Countless others from the challenges in the coming years, not least as part of the Merseyside area have been killed or injured in the line new employment model and the Future Force 2020 of duty during other conflicts and it should be recognised plan. Some 30,000 troops will have been removed by that Liverpool produces more men and women in our 2020. That will have an enormous impact on the UK’s armed forces per capita than probably any other area of capability, and clarity from Ministers on the decisions the country. As people will know, the Mersey is the they have taken about future capability would be welcome. lifeblood of our great city and Liverpool has a long My hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) history with the Royal Navy and the merchant navy. Its made some excellent points about our maritime capability. maritime history is a reminder to us all of the sacrifices Recent reports have raised concerns that certain regiments and bravery of our ancestors. are at risk of being scrapped. Belonging to a regiment is In the somewhat limited time I have left, I want to a very strong part of many soldiers’ identity. That is talk about the lack of consideration that this Government why the shadow Secretary of State launched our “Respect have recently shown to our armed forces. I am primarily Our Regiments” campaign last month. I know that referring to the widespread reports that the Defence many Members are concerned about regiments and Secretary is to make soldiers who are currently serving battalions being scrapped, including colleagues from redundant on their return from their tour of duty. What Wales, Yorkshire, Scotland and Staffordshire. I apologise kind of Government would do that to their own brave if I have missed anyone out. The Government intend to soldiers? Decisions taken today, matters of life or death, rely much more heavily on reservists in future, and the spending commitments and diplomatic negotiations can Minister knows I am concerned that he and the Government and invariably will have ramifications for generations to plan to scrap employment protections for reservists come. What is more, some of the policy decisions made while asking for more from them. by the Defence Secretary today are likely to take decades to become manifest. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence Yes, we need reform—that is why my right hon. (Mr Andrew Robathan) indicated dissent. Friend the shadow Defence Secretary outlined £5 billion- worth of reforms recently—but a reduction in Britain’s Gemma Doyle: The Minister shakes his head but I capability based on opinion polls is irresponsible. raised this with him last year and again last week. I Controversy is not an excuse for carelessness or, dare I know he is going to write to me and I await that letter say, callousness. because our understanding of the situation differs. The Defence Secretary should not underestimate the Last year, we reached agreement across the House on part that morale plays when it comes to our soldiers and the armed forces covenant. I will resist the temptation armed forces. He would do well to remember the words raised by the contribution of the hon. Member for of Dwight D. Eisenhower: Tamworth (Christopher Pincher). As he knows and as “The best morale exists when you never hear the word mentioned. the record shows, his party and the Minister had to be When you hear a lot of talk about it, it’s usually lousy.” dragged kicking and screaming into putting the provisions Our armed forces deserve a Defence Secretary who we now have in law into the Armed Forces Act 2011. understands defence and does not use it for political Anyone can read the record of the Committee proceedings expedience. Our British armed forces deserve a Secretary to see that that is correct. The hon. Gentleman’s recollection of State who demonstrates compassion for the mission, was frankly a little wobbly. The Minister knows that I empathy for the families and a determination to stand do not think the armed forces covenant is yet being up for defence in Parliament. taken seriously enough across all of government and the public sector in accordance with the principles set down. I do not doubt his commitment but more work 9.40 pm needs to be done to make sure that it is a reality and that Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op): it works in practice. It has been a pleasure to listen to this evening’s debate I want to raise the issue of discrimination towards on defence reform, in which hon. Members have spoken our forces. This concern is highlighted in the recent on a number of topics. Let me say at the outset that the report by Lord Ashcroft, “The Armed Forces and Society”, right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife which states that one in five members of the forces (Sir Menzies Campbell) posed some very pertinent questions reports have been refused service in a bar or hotel while to Government Front Benchers. wearing their uniform and that around the same number I am pleased that we are having this debate in the reports being verbally abused while wearing their uniform. week before armed forces day because it gives us the That is clearly unacceptable discrimination and if we opportunity to pause and reflect on the bravery of our take the covenant seriously we should be looking at how forces and the sacrifices they make, as has been mentioned to tackle such behaviour. 267 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 268

Mr Gray: Will the hon. Lady give way? manufacturing, maintenance, aerospace, technical support, clothing and optics. Let me say to the hon. Member for Gemma Doyle: I am afraid that I really do not think I Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt), who raised some have time, but if I have time later I will. specific issues, that reports about Portsmouth dockyard The service community can face indirect discrimination, have appeared in the media and the shadow Defence creating difficulty with day-to-day matters that we take team has responded to those reports. I assure her that for granted such as getting credit, mortgages or even a we share her concerns and we are on the side of her mobile phone contract because they have moved around constituents and the people of Portsmouth. My hon. so often. We should not accept that as inevitable. The Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John principles of the armed forces covenant should apply Woodcock) made some excellent points about defence throughout society, and where those principles are routinely procurement and in particular about the successor deterrent or blatantly breached, it may be necessary to consider programme. introducing measures to deal with the matter. Routine The hon. Member for Milton Keynes North (Mark disadvantage or discrimination should never go hand in Lancaster) asked us to explain some of the savings that hand with serving one’s country. we have identified. He will be pleased to hear that details of a full £5 billion have been published on The Guardian Mr Gray: The hon. Lady claims credit for having forced website, if nowhere else, and I refer him to that site. the Government to bring the covenant into law. Perhaps I want to say a little about defence in Scotland. This she can remind me of any step taken by any Labour week saw the launch of the “Better Together”campaign— Government in 13 years to bring the armed forces Scotland’s cross-party campaign making the positive covenant into law? case for staying part of the UK. It is a shame that the nationalist spokesperson for defence has chosen not to Gemma Doyle: Great strides were made under the be present tonight. For more than 300 years, service previous Government through the Green Paper and men and women from Scotland have served alongside the service personnel Command Paper, which set up the their countrymen and women from the rest of the UK, provisions we now have. with a shared identity and goal—protecting the people Legal protections are in place for other groups in of the UK and defending those unable to defend themselves society and we believe that consideration should be around the world. The defence sector is extremely important given to whether they should be extended to our armed across the whole of Scotland, supporting around 50,000 forces. I thought the Minister agreed to cross-party jobs and in the west of Scotland pumping about talks in our Westminster Hall debate last week, but that £270 million a year into the local economy. does not appear to be what is on the record. I hope that On the “Better Together” website, Members can hear he is willing to take part in such talks and I would Craig and Tanya, both from Dumbarton, and Robert welcome confirmation of that today. from Cumbernauld, who all work in the shipyards on When referring to the wider service community, we the Clyde, talking about why they want to stay part of must of course mention forces’ families. They put up the UK. If any Members are in any doubt about the with an awful lot and we do not do enough for them. importance of MOD contracts to the people of Scotland, We have to make many improvements, particularly in I suggest they listen to those whose jobs depend on housing, on which the hon. Member for Tamworth them. Although breaking Scotland off from the UK is a made some welcome comments. The Minister has side- reform too far for me and for the majority of Scots, we stepped concerns about the missing £41 million for forces’ have had a good debate this evening on many aspects of housing, so I urge him to take cognisance of today’s defence reform. report from the Select Committee on Defence, which sets out the concerns about housing very well. In last 9.50 pm week’s Westminster Hall debate, I urged him to think carefully before making any changes to the rules on The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence service accommodation. As he knows, leaked plans to (Mr Andrew Robathan): May I say what a pleasure it is change the entitlement to married quarters were not to agree with the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire well received earlier this year. Perhaps he will tell us (Gemma Doyle) in rejecting any idea that Scotland tonight whether those changes are still being considered. would be better off independent, and how much stronger Our motion makes specific reference to pensions. we are—both Scotland and the United Kingdom as a There are concerns that some individuals have been whole—as a Union? made redundant with only a few weeks to go before Many of the contributions to the debate today show being entitled to a full pension. It has been suggested how wide and how deep the admiration and respect for that that was done deliberately to cut cost. The Minister our armed forces runs in the House, and that reflects has the opportunity to say today that that is not the case the feelings across the country. We should not forget and that getting rid of people from the forces before that the purpose of our armed forces is to succeed on they qualified for a full pension was not a deliberate operations, to protect our national security and to policy. Will he also comment on media reports last provide the ultimate guarantee of our country’s security week that the Government may be considering raising and independence, as well as helping to project its by five years the age at which forces personnel can values and interests abroad. In Afghanistan today, that receive a full pension? is what our soldiers are doing, risking life and limb to Many Members, including my hon. Friend the Member keep us safe as we sit in comfort in Westminster. for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson), have Operations remain the No. 1 priority for the Ministry highlighted the importance of the defence industry in of Defence and we will do everything we can to achieve the UK. That includes a range of industries—shipbuilding, success not just in Afghanistan, but in standing operations 269 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 270

[Mr Andrew Robathan] The hon. Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) raised an important point about audit, accountability around the world and in helping to deliver a safe and and the need for the reform of NATO. I suggest that he secure Olympics this summer. But to make sure that this takes that up—I am looking again at my excellent civil success continues into the future, we have to make sure servants—with the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, that our services are structured properly, that the equipment my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Mr Howarth), programme is funded and that the needs of our forces who is responsible for such matters, and I am sure that are looked after. he will get back to him on that. That is why the programme of implementing the I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Milton SDSR is so necessary—putting the years of Labour Keynes North (Mark Lancaster) for his sensible look at mismanagement behind and sorting out the mess. Although defence strategy and the future of the reserves. I am sure it appears that the Opposition recognise the need for that we are looking forward to seeing him in uniform change, they still do not appear to understand why tomorrow as a serving officer. The hon. Member for there is such a need for change. The shadow Secretary Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) was keen of State for Defence—I am sorry he is not here—has to encourage the defence industry and exports. Three written: Defence Ministers spend their time going around areas “In beginning to develop future policy we have to be honest trying to encourage defence exports. My right hon. about the past.” Friend the Prime Minister was widely criticised, including Today, not one Member on the Opposition Benches has by Labour Front-Bench spokesmen, when he tried to been honest about the mistakes that the Opposition encourage exports to the middle east. I am very glad to made in the past. Not one has said sorry—sorry for have the hon. Lady’s support. She referred to the economic 12 years without a defence review, sorry for the £38 billion difficulties that the Government have got themselves into black hole in the budget—[Interruption.] The hon. since 2010. I do not think so. I really do not think so. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) should stop My hon. Friend the Member for Tamworth (Christopher digging. He has been digging quite enough today. Not Pincher) made a good point about housing. We are one Opposition Member has said sorry for ducking the working on banks and mortgages, as he asked, and tough choice required to put our armed forces back on BFPO addresses will now be accepted as proper addresses track. for security. I am very much looking forward to seeing I am afraid that in the limited time available I will not my hon. Friend the Member for Plymouth, Sutton and be able to address all the contributions to the debate. Devonport (Oliver Colvile) on armed forces day in The right hon. and learned Member for North East Fife Plymouth this weekend. (Sir Menzies Campbell) yet again made an impassioned I must tell the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton case for RAF Leuchars. It remains our intention that (Steve Rotheram) that we are not making reductions in the Army move to Leuchars and the RAF move to the armed forces out of callousness, but with huge Lossiemouth. He asked some very detailed questions. regret, and it is painful to us. We are doing it because of Will he please take those up and I will make sure that the appalling financial situation that the Government my excellent civil servants in the Box bring them to the received when they took office in 2010. attention of the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, The hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Worcestershire Doyle) is not correct that there is any intention to (Peter Luff), who would be better at answering than I reduce protection for employment of reservists deployed. would be this evening? I am delighted to hear her praying in aid again my noble Friend Lord Ashcroft. I have never heard praise from Sir Menzies Campbell: The questions were rhetorical. the Labour Benches for Lord Ashcroft before, but I am The answer is yes in every case. pleased to hear it now. Perhaps she will bring forward an analysis of discrimination. I draw her attention to a Mr Robathan: In which case I do not think my hon. letter that has been sent to the shadow Defence Secretary Friend the Minister will be writing to the right hon. and from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, which learned Gentleman. says: The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) made a “I welcome the work conducted by Lord Ashcroft…I was point about the Nimrod MRA4. It was a procurement reassured that that public support for our Armed Forces remains disaster. The aircraft were never in service and never ‘very high’”. flew in service. I say to the hon. Lady and to the right He particularly says: hon. Member for Dwyfor Meirionnydd (Mr Llwyd) “I would welcome a discussion with you on how we can ensure that the Government value the Welsh regiments that she that everything we do in Parliament emphasises our cross-party spoke about. I have Welsh antecedents. I had a great support for the Armed Forces and the people who serve in them.” uncle killed in Gallipoli in the Welsh Regiment and The Opposition probably rather regret calling this other relatives in the Welsh regiments, so I can assure debate today. They have made themselves look somewhat her that we value the Welsh regiments. I do not know foolish. While I remember, may I say how sorry I am to what is in the report. We must wait until General hear about the shadow Secretary of State’s relation in Carter’s report is published, which it will be, shortly. Australia? I understand that he is very ill and we wish My hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North him the very best in that illness, and I mean that sincerely. (Penny Mordaunt) drew attention to misleading statements However, having been nice to the hon. Member for on the naval base that she attributed to the Labour press North Durham (Mr Jones), let me say that he admitted office. If that is the case, it is regrettable. We have no that Labour was planning savings in restructuring the Army intention whatsoever of closing the Portsmouth naval and then attacked us for doing just that. The Opposition base. remain in denial. They seem to say that everything was 271 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 272 great in defence at the general election. It was not. As Hepburn, Mr Stephen Nash, Pamela the shadow Secretary of State has identified, the Heyes, David O’Donnell, Fiona Opposition’s greatest weakness remains the black hole Hilling, Julie Owen, Albert that they left us. Today, the team has been revealed in all Hodge, rh Margaret Pearce, Teresa its glory. The Opposition have shown that they have no Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Toby real defence policy. They have no answers to the problems Hopkins, Kelvin Phillipson, Bridget Hosie, Stewart Pound, Stephen in defence. They have no acceptance of the difficult Howarth, rh Mr George Qureshi, Yasmin position that we are in and no acceptance of the mess Hunt, Tristram Raynsford, rh Mr Nick made by the Labour Government of the Government Irranca-Davies, Huw Reed, Mr Jamie finances and of the defence budget. Jamieson, Cathy Reeves, Rachel In conclusion— Jarvis, Dan Reynolds, Jonathan Johnson, rh Alan Riordan, Mrs Linda Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab) claimed to Johnson, Diana Robertson, Angus move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). Jones, Graham Robertson, John Jones, Helen Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Question put forthwith, That the Question be now put. Jones, Mr Kevan Rotheram, Steve Question agreed to. Jones, Susan Elan Roy, Mr Frank Question put accordingly (Standing Order No. 31(2)), Jowell, rh Dame Tessa Roy, Lindsay That the original words stand part of the Question. Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Ruane, Chris Keeley, Barbara Sarwar, Anas The House divided: Ayes 210, Noes 294. Kendall, Liz Seabeck, Alison Division No. 27] [9.59 pm Khan, rh Sadiq Sharma, Mr Virendra Lammy, rh Mr David Shuker, Gavin Lavery, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis AYES Lazarowicz, Mark Smith, rh Mr Andrew Abbott, Ms Diane Curran, Margaret Lloyd, Tony Smith, Angela Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Danczuk, Simon Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Smith, Nick Alexander, rh Mr Douglas David, Wayne Love, Mr Andrew Smith, Owen Alexander, Heidi Davidson, Mr Ian Lucas, Ian Straw, rh Mr Jack Ali, Rushanara De Piero, Gloria MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Stringer, Graham Allen, Mr Graham Denham, rh Mr John MacShane, rh Mr Denis Stuart, Ms Gisela Anderson, Mr David Dobson, rh Frank Mactaggart, Fiona Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Ashworth, Jonathan Docherty, Thomas Mahmood, Shabana Tami, Mark Austin, Ian Donohoe, Mr Brian H. Malhotra, Seema Thornberry, Emily Bailey, Mr Adrian Dowd, Jim Mann, John Trickett, Jon Bain, Mr William Doyle, Gemma Marsden, Mr Gordon Turner, Karl Barron, rh Mr Kevin Dugher, Michael McCann, Mr Michael Twigg, Derek Bayley, Hugh Eagle, Ms Angela McCarthy, Kerry Twigg, Stephen Beckett, rh Margaret Eagle, Maria McClymont, Gregg Bell, Sir Stuart Edwards, Jonathan McFadden, rh Mr Pat Umunna, Mr Chuka Benn, rh Hilary Efford, Clive McGovern, Alison Vaz, Valerie Berger, Luciana Elliott, Julie McGovern, Jim Walley, Joan Betts, Mr Clive Ellman, Mrs Louise McKechin, Ann Watts, Mr Dave Blackman-Woods, Roberta Esterson, Bill McKenzie, Mr Iain Weir, Mr Mike Blenkinsop, Tom Evans, Chris McKinnell, Catherine Whiteford, Dr Eilidh Blunkett, rh Mr David Farrelly, Paul Meacher, rh Mr Michael Whitehead, Dr Alan Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Field, rh Mr Frank Mearns, Ian Williams, Hywel Brennan, Kevin Fitzpatrick, Jim Michael, rh Alun Williamson, Chris Brown, Lyn Flello, Robert Miliband, rh David Wilson, Phil Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Francis, Dr Hywel Miliband, rh Edward Winnick, Mr David Brown, Mr Russell Gapes, Mike Miller, Andrew Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Bryant, Chris Gardiner, Barry Mitchell, Austin Wishart, Pete Buck, Ms Karen Gilmore, Sheila Moon, Mrs Madeleine Wood, Mike Burden, Richard Glass, Pat Morden, Jessica Woodcock, John Campbell, Mr Alan Glindon, Mrs Mary Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Campbell, Mr Ronnie Godsiff, Mr Roger Morris, Grahame M. Wright, David Caton, Martin Goggins, rh Paul (Easington) Wright, Mr Iain Chapman, Jenny Goodman, Helen Mudie, Mr George Clark, Katy Greatrex, Tom Murphy, rh Paul Tellers for the Ayes: Clarke, rh Mr Tom Green, Kate Murray, Ian Yvonne Fovargue and Clwyd, rh Ann Greenwood, Lilian Nandy, Lisa Nic Dakin Coffey, Ann Griffith, Nia Cooper, Rosie Gwynne, Andrew NOES Crausby, Mr David Hain, rh Mr Peter Adams, Nigel Baker, Norman Creagh, Mary Hamilton, Fabian Afriyie, Adam Baker, Steve Creasy, Stella Hanson, rh Mr David Aldous, Peter Baldry, Sir Tony Cruddas, Jon Harman, rh Ms Harriet Cryer, John Harris, Mr Tom Amess, Mr David Baldwin, Harriett Cunningham, Alex Havard, Mr Dai Andrew, Stuart Barclay, Stephen Cunningham, Mr Jim Healey, rh John Arbuthnot, rh Mr James Barker, Gregory Cunningham, Sir Tony Hendrick, Mark Bacon, Mr Richard Baron, Mr John 273 Defence Reform26 JUNE 2012 Defence Reform 274

Barwell, Gavin Freer, Mike Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan Bebb, Guto Fullbrook, Lorraine Lefroy, Jeremy Rosindell, Andrew Beith, rh Sir Alan Garnier, Mark Leslie, Charlotte Ruffley, Mr David Benyon, Richard Gauke, Mr David Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Rutley, David Beresford, Sir Paul George, Andrew Lewis, Brandon Sanders, Mr Adrian Bingham, Andrew Gibb, Mr Nick Lilley, rh Mr Peter Scott, Mr Lee Birtwistle, Gordon Gilbert, Stephen Lloyd, Stephen Selous, Andrew Blackman, Bob Gillan, rh Mrs Cheryl Lopresti, Jack Sharma, Alok Blackwood, Nicola Glen, John Lord, Jonathan Shepherd, Mr Richard Blunt, Mr Crispin Goldsmith, Zac Loughton, Tim Simmonds, Mark Bone, Mr Peter Goodwill, Mr Robert Lumley, Karen Simpson, Mr Keith Bottomley, Sir Peter Graham, Richard Macleod, Mary Skidmore, Chris Bradley, Karen Grant, Mrs Helen Main, Mrs Anne Smith, Henry Brady, Mr Graham Grayling, rh Chris Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Julian Brake, rh Tom Green, Damian May, rh Mrs Theresa Smith, Sir Robert Bray, Angie Greening, rh Justine Maynard, Paul Soames, rh Nicholas Brazier, Mr Julian Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McCartney, Jason Soubry, Anna Bridgen, Andrew Griffiths, Andrew McCartney, Karl Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Brine, Steve Gummer, Ben McIntosh, Miss Anne Stanley, rh Sir John Brokenshire, James Gyimah, Mr Sam McPartland, Stephen Stevenson, John Brooke, Annette Halfon, Robert McVey, Esther Stewart, Bob Bruce, Fiona Hames, Duncan Mensch, Louise Stewart, Iain Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Hammond, rh Mr Philip Menzies, Mark Stewart, Rory Buckland, Mr Robert Hammond, Stephen Metcalfe, Stephen Streeter, Mr Gary Burley, Mr Aidan Hancock, Matthew Miller, Maria Stride, Mel Burns, Conor Hands, Greg Mills, Nigel Stuart, Mr Graham Burns, rh Mr Simon Harper, Mr Mark Milton, Anne Stunell, Andrew Burrowes, Mr David Harris, Rebecca Moore, rh Michael Sturdy, Julian Burstow, Paul Hart, Simon Mordaunt, Penny Swales, Ian Burt, Lorely Harvey, Nick Morgan, Nicky Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Byles, Dan Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Morris, David Swinson, Jo Cable, rh Vince Heath, Mr David Morris, James Syms, Mr Robert Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Heaton-Harris, Chris Mosley, Stephen Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Hemming, John Mowat, David Teather, Sarah Carmichael, Neil Henderson, Gordon Mulholland, Greg Thurso, John Carswell, Mr Douglas Hendry, Charles Munt, Tessa Timpson, Mr Edward Cash, Mr William Herbert, rh Nick Murray, Sheryll Tomlinson, Justin Clappison, Mr James Hinds, Damian Murrison, Dr Andrew Tredinnick, David Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hoban, Mr Mark Newmark, Mr Brooks Truss, Elizabeth Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hollingbery, George Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hollobone, Mr Philip Nokes, Caroline Uppal, Paul Collins, Damian Holloway, Mr Adam Norman, Jesse Vaizey, Mr Edward Colvile, Oliver Hopkins, Kris Nuttall, Mr David Vara, Mr Shailesh Cox, Mr Geoffrey Horwood, Martin O’Brien, Mr Stephen Villiers, rh Mrs Theresa Crockart, Mike Howell, John Offord, Dr Matthew Walker, Mr Charles Crouch, Tracey Hughes, rh Simon Ollerenshaw, Eric Walker, Mr Robin Davey, rh Mr Edward Huhne, rh Chris Opperman, Guy Wallace, Mr Ben Davies, Glyn Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Osborne, rh Mr George Watkinson, Angela Davies, Philip Hunter, Mark Ottaway, Richard Webb, Steve de Bois, Nick Huppert, Dr Julian Paice, rh Mr James Wharton, James Dinenage, Caroline Hurd, Mr Nick Parish, Neil Wheeler, Heather Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Jackson, Mr Stewart Patel, Priti White, Chris Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen James, Margot Pawsey, Mark Whittaker, Craig Dorries, Nadine Javid, Sajid Penrose, John Whittingdale, Mr John Doyle-Price, Jackie Jenkin, Mr Bernard Phillips, Stephen Wiggin, Bill Duddridge, James Johnson, Gareth Pickles, rh Mr Eric Willetts, rh Mr David Dunne, Mr Philip Johnson, Joseph Pincher, Christopher Williams, Mr Mark Ellis, Michael Jones, Andrew Poulter, Dr Daniel Williams, Roger Ellison, Jane Jones, Mr David Prisk, Mr Mark Williams, Stephen Elphicke, Charlie Jones, Mr Marcus Pugh, John Williamson, Gavin Eustice, George Kawczynski, Daniel Raab, Mr Dominic Wilson, Mr Rob Evans, Graham Kelly, Chris Randall, rh Mr John Wollaston, Dr Sarah Evans, Jonathan Kirby, Simon Redwood, rh Mr John Wright, Simon Evennett, Mr David Kwarteng, Kwasi Rees-Mogg, Jacob Yeo, Mr Tim Reevell, Simon Fabricant, Michael Laing, Mrs Eleanor Young, rh Sir George Reid, Mr Alan Fallon, Michael Lamb, Norman Zahawi, Nadhim Farron, Tim Lancaster, Mark Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Featherstone, Lynne Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Tellers for the Noes: Robertson, Hugh Stephen Crabb and Field, Mark Latham, Pauline Robertson, Mr Laurence Jenny Willott Foster, rh Mr Don Laws, rh Mr David Francois, rh Mr Mark Leadsom, Andrea Freeman, George Lee, Dr Phillip Question accordingly negatived. 275 26 JUNE 2012 Business without Debate 276

Business without Debate Mr Speaker: I think that the matter has already been debated in a European Committee. It is therefore not immediately obvious to me how a debate would have DELEGATED LEGISLATION been sought today. The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing question— Order No. 118(6)), Sir Peter Bottomley rose— COMPANIES That the draft Statutory Auditors (Amendment of Companies Mr Speaker: I do not require any further point of Act 2006 and Delegation of Functions etc) Order 2012, which order. The answer to the question is no. was laid before this House on 15 May, be approved.—(Bill Wiggin.) Question agreed to. Sir Peter Bottomley rose—

EUROPEAN UNION DOCUMENTS Mr Speaker: Order. I have made the point. The hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 119(11)), Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/ EUROPEAN SEMESTER IN THE UK Co-op): On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The That the Committee takes note of European Union Documents administrators, PricewaterhouseCoopers, have announced No. 10834/12, relating to the Commission Communication: Action this evening that the Coryton refinery has been sold, for stability, growth and jobs; No. 10557/12 and Addendum, not as a refinery, but as an import and export terminal, relating to the draft Council Recommendation on the United meaning that most of the 850 jobs will go. Have you Kingdom’s 2012 national reform programme and delivering a had any indication from Ministers from the Department Council opinion on the United Kingdom’s convergence programme of Energy and Climate Change that they intend to for 2012–2017; and No. 10846/12, relating to a Commission Staff come to the House to make an urgent statement on the Working Document: In depth review for the United Kingdom in accordance with Article 5 of Regulation (EU) No. 1176/2011 on implications of that announcement for UK fuel security the prevention and correction of macroeconomic imbalances; and energy resilience? welcomes the Commission’s support for the Government’s efforts to reduce the deficit and set the public finances on a sustainable Mr Speaker: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for path, which is consistent with the conclusions reached by the his point of order. As of now, I have received no such IMF and the OECD in their recent reviews of the UK economy; indication. I recognise the importance of the matter to takes note of the Commission’s efforts to address timing difficulties with the European Semester; welcomes the Government’s approach the hon. Gentleman and to others. What he has said to promoting growth domestically and at EU level; and welcomes will have been heard by those on the Treasury Bench. the Government’s policy of securing assurances that the UK If the hon. Member for Worthing West (Sir Peter cannot be subject to sanctions in respect of the Stability and Bottomley), having exercised a modicum of restraint Growth Pact or the new Macroeconomic Imbalances Procedure and patience, wishes to pursue a different point of [4th Report of Session 2012-13, HC 86-iv, Chapter 3].—(Bill Wiggin.) order, he may do so. The Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday Sir Peter Bottomley: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. 27 June (Standing Order No. 41A). The question that I put to you was whether the Opposition could have had such a debate, rather than whether they should have had one. The answer may be the same, but WELSH GRAND COMMITTEE the answer that the House was given was not relevant to Motion made, the question that I had put. That— (1) the Green Paper on future electoral arrangements for the Mr Speaker: The answer is no. I am grateful for the National Assembly for Wales be referred to the Welsh Grand linguistic clarification, but the answer is the same. Committee for its consideration; (2) the Committee shall meet at Westminster on Monday 2 July at 11.30 am and 4.00 pm to consider— (a) a Ministerial statement by the Secretary of State for Wales, PETITION proceeded with under Standing Order No. 105 (Welsh Grand Committee (ministerial statements)); Housing Benefit (York) (b) the matter referred to it under paragraph (1) above; and (3) the Chair shall interrupt proceedings at the afternoon sitting not later than two hours after their commencement at that 10.17 pm sitting.—(Bill Wiggin.) Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): Private tenants Hon. Members: Object. on low incomes in York face a particular problem because their housing benefit is based not on rents in Sir Peter Bottomley: On a point of order, Mr Speaker. York, but on rents in a broad market rental area that Motion 3 on the Order Paper includes the words, includes towns and villages 20 miles from York, where “welcomes the Commission’s support for the Government’s efforts rents are much lower. I therefore present a petition on to reduce the deficit and set the public finances on a sustainable behalf of residents of York. The petition is signed by path”. two of my constituents, Helen Graham and Graham Is that an issue on which the Opposition could have Martin, and is supported by the signatures of almost called for a debate, rather than just a vote? 1,000 people. 277 Business without Debate 26 JUNE 2012 278

[Hugh Bayley] Decent Homes Programme (Nottingham) The petition states: Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—(Stephen Crabb.) The Petition of residents of York, Declares that York is facing a housing crisis, with homelessness in York in 2010/2011 40% up on the previous year; further 10.19 pm declares that the Government’s reforms to Housing Benefits mean that of 6,299 private rented properties previously affordable Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab): I feel a in the city, 3,700 will be lost, a reduction of almost 50%; declares mixture of pride and anxiety speaking about Nottingham’s that this is effectively driving people out of York and away from decent homes programme. I am proud of the difference their jobs, families and friends; and declares that York’s Broad it has made to the lives of my constituents, but anxious Market Rental Area, which determines the level of Housing for the future, because the final two years of investment Benefit currently available, should be based on the York Unitary have yet to be confirmed. Authority area and not on neighbouring towns including, Tadcaster, Selby, and Pocklington, all of which have lower rents than York, I want to explain my pride that, thanks to a unique in order to reduce the pressure on people to move away from the study produced through the knowledge transfer partnership city which is their home. between Nottingham City Homes and Nottingham business The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons school, we can measure the impact of Nottingham’s urges the Government to make changes to the boundary of the decent homes programme. I shall also set out exactly York Broad Market Rental Area to include only the York Unitary what is at stake for my constituents, including tenants, Authority area. their neighbours and the wider city of Nottingham. If And the Petitioners remain, etc. the promised funding is not delivered, the objective of [P001101] bringing all council homes in Nottingham up to a decent standard is at risk. Twelve years ago, the Labour Government set out their vision in a housing Green Paper and made a commitment to tackle chronic under-investment and to bring all housing up to an acceptable standard. In 2010, the National Audit Office found that, although the decent homes programme had probably had a wider beneficial impact, a lack “of data on these wider benefits means that it is not possible to identify the Programme’s true impact throughout its life.” The impact study helps to prove what MPs knew: that the programme was making a difference on the ground. In January 2011, the House debated “Beyond Decent Homes”, a report from the Select Committee on Communities and Local Government. MPs on both sides of the House, including me, described what good- quality housing meant for their constituents. NCH was awarded funding by the Department for Communities and Local Government in 2008 and work began to complete £187 million-worth of planned investment to tackle the 32% of council homes in Nottingham classified as non-decent. The work was carried out under three streams to maximise efficiency and match tenants’priorities. The secure stream was to replace all single-glazed windows with secured-by-design double-glazed units and replace any old or damaged doors; the warm stream was to improve heating and insulation; and the modern stream was to make internal improvements, including replacing outdated kitchens and bathrooms. Adaptations to meet the special needs of some tenants, including level-access showers or wet rooms, would also be undertaken alongside the secure, warm and modern—SWM—programme. When the 2010 general election brought new uncertainty, tenants and leaseholders launched their “Nott Decent” campaign, and I was proud to join them in presenting a petition to No. 10 to ask the new Government to honour the commitment that had been made to them. We were pleased and relieved when the Minister re-allocated funding—albeit reduced funding over a longer period— to complete the programme. By January 2012, 15,900 properties—more than half of all council homes—had new windows; 3,400 doors had been replaced; 10,200 heating systems had been upgraded; 2,900 lofts were properly insulated; 9,000 kitchens and 7,200 bathrooms 279 Decent Homes Programme 26 JUNE 2012 Decent Homes Programme 280 (Nottingham) (Nottingham) had been replaced; and 284 aids and adaptations had Construction, the fifth largest employment sector in the been made to make properties more accessible for their city, has been badly hit by the economic downturn and disabled tenants. reduction in house building. The decent homes programme The impact study measured the effect of those changes is providing vital work, and of the 560 people currently to tenants’ homes. On crime and security, the results are delivering SWM in Nottingham, about one third live in dramatic: burglary fell by 42% between 2007 and 2010 the city and over half in Nottinghamshire. on two sample estates where single-glazed windows Investment in decent homes is not only providing were replaced, compared with a 21% reduction across much-needed jobs for joiners, plumbers, and other workers the city. The study identified that timber doors were a in the construction industry; the analysis shows that weak spot in houses’ overall security, which provided every £1 of investment in the programme generates evidence to support replacing all external doors, not £1.36 in Nottingham city or £1.46 in Nottinghamshire just those that were especially old or damaged. Tenants as a whole, which means that the £37.6 million spent on reported feeling safer in their homes—an important the decent homes programme in 2010-11 generated contribution to improved mental health and general an extra £17.3 million of additional spending in well-being. Nottinghamshire, £13.5 million of which came into the Together with the installation of energy-efficient central city. heating systems and loft insulation, the new windows The SWM programme also makes an important have raised the average energy efficiency rating of NCH contribution to training and skills development through homes from 60 to 68 points. That represents a 15% the “One in a Million”scheme, which requires contractors decrease in carbon emissions from NCH properties, to take on an apprentice for every £1 million of their which is equivalent to taking 2,700 cars off the road or contract. That has already created 105 apprenticeships, planting 360,000 trees and growing them for 10 years. with a target of creating a total of 200 by 2015. In By the time the SWM programme is completed in 2015, addition, staff on the SWM team have completed 2,000 energy efficiency from NCH homes will be saving 43,500 hours of training, including externally accredited tonnes of carbon per year and achieving 17% of the qualifications. As a result of this investment in skills, city’s target for carbon reduction from domestic properties. these staff can expect to earn an extra £13 million in Of course, not only are energy-efficient and better- additional lifetime earnings. insulated homes good for the environment; they have a The impact study shows that investment in decent real and immediate benefit to the people who live in housing works both for tenants and the wider community. them. Tenants not only report that their homes are However, the benefits accruing from decent homes are warmer, suffer less damp and condensation and give not secure. The funding from the Department for them pride in their neighbourhood, but that they are Communities and Local Government for the decent saving money—and given that an estimated 12% of all homes programme remains indicative for the final two city residents were in fuel poverty before the programme years of Nottingham’s programme. In the reallocation began, that is money they desperately needed. of funding in January 2011, 53% of NCH’s allocation The Energy Saving Trust estimates that new windows was weighted towards those two final years, amounting alone can save £95 to £223 a year, and new boilers up to to a total of £45.6 million. £225 a year. In total, improved homes are saving If that investment does not go ahead, the consequences Nottingham tenants £3.5 million each year, making a for our city will be dire. For every £1 million spent, significant contribution to reducing fuel poverty, which 21 jobs are created, so cutting the funding could result fell to 6.8% of city residents by 2010-11—after the in more than 950 job losses over the two years. Furthermore, programme upgraded thousands of properties. The NCH is committed to taking on an apprentice for every improvements also enable tenants to get rid of extra £1 million spent, so the reduction in funding would appliances such as old electric heaters, which can often result in 45 fewer local people starting apprenticeships. present a health and safety hazard. Combined with If remaining heating upgrades are not completed, savings better security, these changes to the physical fabric of of 2,440 tonnes of carbon and £600,000 from tenants’ their homes have a marked effect on the health and fuel bills will no longer be made, and a cut in funding well-being of NCH tenants. would mean the loss not only of the original investment The impact study estimates that, as a result of the of £45 million into the construction industry, but of an SWM programme, two lives a year are saved by protecting additional £21 million of re-spending in the local economy. vulnerable tenants from the cold; that the respiratory Most importantly, of course, if the funding is not health of 1,000 children is improved; that, every year, confirmed, 7,000 tenants and their families would be 12 hospital admissions resulting from falls are avoided; left living in substandard housing. that 144 accidents requiring medical attention are prevented; The loss of the investment would hit some harder and that, as a result of providing warmer homes and than others, and one neighbourhood in Nottingham reduced fuel bills, more than 1,400 tenants have better that stands to lose most is the Meadows in my constituency. mental health. Based on just those examples, where a Before the last election, the Meadows, one of the 5% most measurable change and cost impact for the NHS in deprived wards in the country, was due to benefit from Nottingham could be calculated, the savings are almost £200 million of new investment, which would have £700,000 per year. transformed the area. The incoming coalition Government In a time of economic austerity and public sector cancelled the housing PFI scheme, and I raised my spending cuts, the benefits accruing from public capital concerns about that decision back in December 2010. investment matter more than ever. Nottingham, along Subsequently, together with representatives of the local with the rest of the country, is feeling the devastating community and the council’s regeneration team, I met impact of a double-dip recession: 19,000 people are out the Minister for Housing and Local Government to of work and there are six jobseekers for every vacancy. discuss the impact of his decision, and he agreed to visit 281 Decent Homes Programme 26 JUNE 2012 Decent Homes Programme 282 (Nottingham) (Nottingham) [Lilian Greenwood] needed. The impact study proves that the money has been well spent. Our homes should be the places where the Meadows to see for himself the needs of our we can shut out the world and feel safe, but if our home neighbourhood. Unfortunately, he has not found time is cold, damp, overcrowded and outdated, there is no in his diary to make good on that commitment, so I escape. would like to use this opportunity to reissue that invitation. Decent housing matters; investment in good council Nottingham City Homes was forced to reallocate housing changes lives. This study shows that investing funding within its decent homes budget so that Meadows in social housing delivers real, tangible benefits to whole residents were not left behind—to ensure that, having communities, including jobs and growth. Surely the been let down by the new Government, they would still Government will not turn its back on this chance to do get their new doors and windows, boilers and insulation, the right thing. Good council houses are not just bricks kitchens and bathrooms, even though their hopes of and mortar; they are homes to my constituents, who are transforming their neighbourhood were dashed. Thanks entitled to a decent standard of living. I hope that the to the hard work of the SWM team, every NCH property Minister will confirm the funding and enable Nottingham in the Meadows has new windows, a third of the homes City Homes to finish this essential work. have better heating and insulation, and NCH hopes to complete the other two thirds before the end of this 10.35 pm financial year. Those promised doors, kitchens and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for bathrooms, however, rely on those last two years of Communities and Local Government (Andrew Stunell): I funding. The Minister really should come to Nottingham congratulate the hon. Member for Nottingham South and meet some of those families in my constituency so (Lilian Greenwood) on her speech, and on securing the that he can understand what his decision will mean to debate. She spoke with great eloquence, and presented a them. very thorough picture of the circumstances in Nottingham I also want to touch on the wider impacts. A cut to and the value of the decent homes programme. I am this funding would also have knock-on effects on NCH’s very much on the same page as her, given the improvements self-financing position under the housing revenue account, that the programme can make to the health and well-being and on other investment programmes that need to be and security of tenants, and the impact that improvements match funded by investment from the decent homes in the insulation and energy performance of homes can programme. Nottingham City Homes and Nottingham have on carbon reduction. I also know that Nottingham city council are currently making proactive use of the has an excellent record of tackling climate change at community energy saving programme started by the local level. last Labour Government to insulate hard-to-heat properties I think that, before dealing with the intricacies of the in our most deprived neighbourhoods. situation in Nottingham, I should say something about Although it was right to focus resources, individual the decent homes programme in general. The Government low-income householders in more affluent areas also believe that all social housing should meet the decent face fuel poverty. These are often social housing tenants, homes standard, which, according to the technical wording and social landlords such as NCH have a strong track of the definition, means that it should be free of category record of working with utility companies to help stop 1 hazards, should be in a reasonable state of repair, such homes leaking heat, making a huge contribution should have reasonably modern facilities and services, to the country’s carbon reduction obligations. Social and should provide a reasonable degree of thermal housing providers need the maximum ability to retrofit comfort. their homes under the new green deal with its associated I must tell the hon. Lady that the present Government new energy company obligation arrangements. This will inherited not only a decent homes programme, but a include the ability to match fund ECO money with huge deficit and a £3.2 billion backlog in capital investment housing investment programmes to get better value in in housing. The Government have already announced tackling excess cold, helping reduce fuel poverty and plans to invest £2.1 billion in the completion of the reducing carbon emissions from domestic properties. decent homes programme, of which £1.6 billion will be I hope the Minister will address the following questions allocated to 46 local authorities—including Nottingham— in his response. In 2008, a third of Nottingham’s council and £500 million will go to registered social landlords in housing failed to meet the decent homes standard, but the form of gap funding. Those funds will make £127,000 if funding is confirmed, all council homes will meet it council homes decent by the end of 2014-15, which will by 2015. Can he confirm that the £45.6 million of cover nearly 60% of the council housing that remains indicative funding for Nottingham City Homes for the non-decent. The final slice of those non-decent homes last two years of the decent homes programme will be will be made decent by local authorities using their own forthcoming? If he cannot provide that assurance tonight, resources, and, as the hon. Lady said, Nottingham will can he tell us when housing providers will know, so that be able to do that. they can plan work, keep contractors on schedule and We have already been very successful in reducing the avoid the waste of winding down programmes only to number of homes that are not fit for people to live in. In have to start them up again? Can he explain how the April 2010, shortly before the general election, local Government will ensure that social housing tenants authorities had 291,600 non-decent dwellings. By April benefit from the green deal and ECO work to improve 2011 the number had fallen by 26%, to 217,000. Figures hard-to-heat homes and to tackle fuel poverty? for the past year are being collated, and the Homes and The Minister has said outside this House today that Communities Agency predicts that we will prove to Nottingham receives substantial housing funding. The have reduced the number by about a further 20,000 truth is that, as a deprived city that suffered from a lack during that period. As the hon. Lady said, more is being of investment during the ’80s and ’90s, this funding is done even as we speak. 283 Decent Homes Programme 26 JUNE 2012 Decent Homes Programme 284 (Nottingham) (Nottingham) We believe that our funding—together with the that they would ensure that all social housing was of a introduction of self-financing for housing authorities decent standard within 10 years. Sadly, that was not the and the increases in allowances that that brings them—will case by 2010. give local authorities the means to deal with any newly Labour also made it clear in the general election arising non-decent stock from within their own resources. campaign that they considered investment in housing, In other words, they have the finances with which to and social housing in particular, not to be a top priority. maintain a steady state once we have achieved a high The then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member standard of decency. for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), told Let me now deal with the position in Nottingham. “Newsnight”: Nottingham City Homes is a strongly performing arm’s “Housing is essentially a private sector activity. Let’s be honest length management organisation. Incidentally, my area about this...I don’t see a need for us to continue with such a big of Stockport contains an ALMO which also performs renovation programme.” very well. Only last year, Nottingham city council extended its agreement with Nottingham City Homes for a further Therefore, although Labour started the programme, it 10 years, which I think constitutes a very good vote of has to be reported that they were throttling it back and confidence. That ALMO has been able to demonstrate were planning to do so more. an increase in tenant satisfaction; it has reduced rent When this Government came to power we were arrears from £5 million to £1.8 million; and it was given borrowing an additional £400 million every day in order a two-star rating under the old regime which unlocked to close the gap between what we were spending and its original decent homes funding programme. what was coming in. It is absolutely right that the When the time came for us to allocate funding to Government should keep a tight hold on all their spending. Nottingham, we recognised that the city had a significant The economic circumstances that have unfolded since backlog of non-decent homes—the hon. Lady has given show the sense of taking that initial decision and the the figures on that. That is why we allocated £86 million importance of continuing to keep a tight grip on what in indicative funding with the first two years confirmed— we spend and how we spend it. That does include the £40.5 million committed in the first two years. That is decent homes programme. the largest award to any council outside London, and I can assure the hon. Lady that we are expecting to the Homes and Communities Agency is putting £78 million make an announcement on the decent homes allocation of additional investment into new housing and regeneration for the final years in due course. I very much take her across Greater Nottingham by 2015, to produce 536 point that it would be sensible to ensure that the timing new homes. of that allowed continuity of contracts and employment. As the hon. Lady said, the impact of the decent That is a point I will take away from this debate. homes funding has been substantial. It has produced a I also want to say on behalf of the Minister for big improvement in many people’s lives, not just in better Housing and Local Government, my right hon. Friend homes, but in all that flows from that. The hon. Lady the Member for Welwyn Hatfield (Grant Shapps), that eloquently explained some of those benefits, and I his undertaking to visit the Meadows was given in good entirely agree that this programme has brought, and faith. He is very busy and very active, and I am happy to can continue to bring, real benefits to tenants in confirm that he will in due course visit the Meadows, as Nottingham. he undertook to do. The hon. Lady referred to the study, undertaken by I understand the hon. Lady’s enthusiasm to get ahead, Nottingham City Homes with Nottingham Trent university, and I share it. The Government are still supportive of of the wider impact of decent homes. That study has all the work that the decent homes programme is doing made a very useful contribution to our knowledge, and and all the benefits that it brings. We remain committed ought to be required reading for those who doubt the to supporting backlog authorities such as Nottingham importance of investing in our social housing stock. It in making its homes decent, and to supporting some of shows why the coalition Government were right to fund the most vulnerable in society who live in those homes. authorities to make homes decent. As the hon. Lady said, every £1 million spent has created 21 jobs in Nottingham. The study gives a series of impressive Lilian Greenwood rose— statistics about the benefits that have been secured, not least reductions in crime. There are health benefits as well, of course, but some of those listed are, perhaps, a Mr Speaker: Order. Is the Minister giving way or little tenuous; reductions in falls is one thing, but sitting down? improvements in the respiratory health of children and in the mental health of tenants are more clear-cut. Andrew Stunell: Apparently, I am giving way, Mr Speaker. We have already confirmed almost half the allocation we set out in the comprehensive spending review. I know that Nottingham and others are keen to get Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is a generous fellow. certainty on their budgets for April 2013 onwards. I call Lilian Greenwood. The hon. Lady was, perhaps, wearing rose-tinted spectacles when she spoke of the performance of the Lilian Greenwood: I thank the Minister for giving previous Government. The Labour Government cut the way.I obviously listened carefully to his response, although decent homes programme by £150 million in July 2009, I should say I am rather disappointed with its lack of cannibalising one part of the housing programme to clarity. Can he confirm how many tenants of Nottingham pay for new housing policies elsewhere. They also failed City Homes he expects to be living in non-decent housing to meet their decent homes target. They pledged in 2000 by the time this Parliament comes to an end in 2015? 285 Decent Homes Programme 26 JUNE 2012 Decent Homes Programme 286 (Nottingham) (Nottingham) Andrew Stunell: Like the hon. Lady, I very much hope Mr Speaker: The hon. Gentleman is courtesy and that the programme we originally announced will have good grace itself. I did not think that an apology was been completed and that the successes we predicted will necessary but it is very much appreciated, and I thank have been achieved. the hon. Gentleman for what he has said. This is the On that note, Mr Speaker, I am sitting down. first time that the question of the Adjournment being moved has been punctuated in this way during my Sir Peter Bottomley (Worthing West) (Con): On a tenure, but I thank him. point of order, Mr Speaker. May I ask that the House Question put and agreed to. and you accept my apology? During a point of order I used the word “could”. You sensibly used the word “would”. I thought that you had said “should”. I was wrong and 10.47 pm misrepresented what you had said, and I apologise. House adjourned. 1WH 26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 2WH

than young male millionaires, so women are becoming Westminster Hall wealthier younger. It seems that women are now truly an unstoppable economic force. However, in tandem with those positive statistics, is the fact that although Tuesday 26 June 2012 women may be earning more when younger, things change dramatically in their 30s when they have families. [MR ANDREW TURNER in the Chair] Between the ages of 40 and 49, there is a significant difference—about £3—in the hourly rate of women and men of the same working age. Women (Global Economy) We are often told that if women set up businesses at Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting the same rate as men, there would be 150,000 new starts be now adjourned.—(Greg Hands.) a year. As well as that, if we increased women’s participation in the workplace, we could add another £15 billion to 9.30 am £22 billion to the UK economy. We are also told that it will take another 70 years to achieve gender balance in Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con): It is a pleasure, the boardroom, such is the state of affairs there. Both Mr Turner, to serve under your stewardship today. sets of statistics are true, but neither does justice to the Today’s debate is on women in the global economy. It is full role that women play globally. true to say that women now drive the world economy. Globally, they control £20 trillion of annual consumer Academics talk of women’s achievements reaching a spending, and that could climb as high as £28 trillion by plateau after a high point pre-2000 when a diverse raft 2015. Their £13 trillion in total yearly earnings could of ground-breaking women took to the national and reach £18 trillion in the same period. In aggregate, international stage. In this House in 1979, Margaret women represent a growth market more than twice as Thatcher became the first and only female Prime Minister. big as China and India combined. Given those sums, it Elizabeth Butler-Sloss was appointed the first woman would be foolish to underestimate that economic force. law lord in 1988. Stella Rimington was appointed the first female head of MI5 in 1992, and Debbie Moore Carol Bagnold, HSBC’s regional commercial director was the first woman to establish a public limited company for London, said: in 1984. “The female economy is hugely important for the UK and globally in terms of the international stage. Wealth is shifting, The rapid rise of women to leadership roles faltered and the scale of contribution from women in both the business as we approached the 21st century. Martin, Warren-Smith, and consumer world is growing. Scott and Roper commented on the alarming lack of The States have recognised this with a plot of research done. In progress, and Vanhala stated that there has not been a the UK the statistics show the same opportunity and we need to significant increase since the early 1990s. That prompted grasp this. 60% of personal wealth will sit with females by 2025, Broadbent and Kirkham to write: 37% of start-ups are now female owned, within the corporate “after a promising start why aren’t women moving on, even in world there” ‘feminised’ professions such as accountancy”. is a In their book, “Through the Labyrinth”, Eagly and “growing number of females controlling the finances.” Carli wrote about the distinct lack of women in powerful Women are now the largest emerging economy. British roles. However, others, including Broadridge, Broadbent women in their early 20s already earn 3.6% more than and Kirkham are now asking whether we have reached men of the same age. Women in full-time work are a pivotal point in the advancement of women in leadership, seeing their wages grow at more than twice the rate of and suggesting that to deliver the next level of progress men’s, and if that growth continues the average pay of a new understanding of female leadership might be women in the UK will overtake men’s by 2020. required.

Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): I apologise for interrupting Philip Davies: I am sure that my hon. Friend is too my hon. Friend’s flow so early in her speech. Does she modest to mention it, but I commend her work with her agree that those figures show that there is no need for book “If Chloe Can”, and the magazine that she set up politically correct positive discrimination, quotas or and has delivered to thousands of schoolgirls throughout targets, because women are more than capable of competing the country in scores of schools. She turned it into a on equal terms with men, and that we should focus on play, and what she has achieved is remarkable. Does she jobs and opportunities being given on merit alone? agree that role models are crucial, and that women and other people can achieve their ambitions, whatever their Esther McVey: I agree with half of what my hon. background, if they have other people’s paths and examples Friend says. We are taking significant steps forward, to follow? and I will refer to various women and business executives who make similar comments, but they include the caveat Esther McVey: I thank my hon. Friend for his kind that different sorts of support are essential for women words. I do indeed believe that, and I am not the only to enable them to achieve the positions they want, and one. A huge body of work has been done on that. to continue their jobs and professional advancement Ofsted did a report last year, and this year Girlguiding through a complex cycle, because women are the carers UK did a report on the importance of role models. I and nurturers in society. came to the same conclusion after 10 years of research In the UK, 700,000 businesses are female-owned and on the Genda Agenda, and in the Ideopolis report and estimated turnover in 2011 was £130 billion according the Merseyside Entrepreneurship Commission. I originally to the International Centre for Entrepreneurship. For sought to look specifically at Merseyside where evidence the first time, there are more young female millionaires unfortunately showed that the statistics for girls claiming 3WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 4WH

[Esther McVey] As we look to the global stage and look at businesses, we are noticing that there has been a change from a benefit were double the national average, but for those hierarchical structure in business and organisations to a setting up in business they were half the national average. flatter one. Executive leaders are seeing and feeling that, That was not because of the academic qualifications but is everyone else convinced? Targets are not enough. they did or did not have, not because they did not have They do not work sustainably and are not as effective as drive and determination, and not because they did not they need to be. We can look to other countries. In have the wherewithal; it was purely because of a lack of China, the Philippines and Thailand, things are very role models. If girls do not know what opportunities are balanced. In Japan, that is not the case. There, women out there, they cannot follow a path and achieve. take only 6% of the top jobs. We have to look at the If I wanted to make a chocolate cake, I would not try cultural effects. The McKinsey study in Europe showed to fathom out how much butter, flour and chocolate I a much improved gender balance. In China, 70% of would need. I would go to a recipe book, or follow the women are in work, but India is far behind, with 35%. recipe of someone who had got it right. If I then wanted Again, that shows the cultural significance and difference. to tweak and perfect it with extra chocolate flakes and Eve Baldwin, the global human resources director for buttons, I would. In the same way, I teach young girls Unilever, says that she has noticed that 50% of entry-level and older girls that there is a path that they can follow, positions are taken by women, but 80% of promotions and show them the raw ingredients that they need to go to men. Why are we still not landing job promotions? achieve. It seems that organisations still prefer a male style. Perhaps there is still a lack of acceptance of different Another positive comment I always make to young styles. Perhaps organisations do not appreciate the different girls from all backgrounds—this is key—is that when I dimensions and character types that women can bring did an academic qualitative and quantitative study of to the business world. That needs to be fixed internally. the top 100 women in the world from all backgrounds, the determining factors were not who someone was Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): I congratulate my related to, or what academic qualifications they had. hon. Friend on securing the debate and on the very Personality and character traits determined their future. thoughtful and extremely well researched speech that Being persistent, determined, consistent, a good team she is giving. Does she agree that one reason why player, optimistic, and able to find a way of doing women are not progressing in the way that we would all things even when hurdles were put in the way were the obviously like them to progress is that for many there is key determining factors for whether people achieved. an absolute tension between wanting to have and rear That was a long answer, but it encapsulates 10 years’ a family and, at the same time, wanting to nurture a work. career? We have not resolved that tension yet. One reason why we have not resolved it is the cost of child care, which of course went up under the previous Philip Davies: I thought that at this point I would Administration. The current Government must address urge the Minister—if my hon. Friend wants to comment, that in a significant way if women at all levels are to she can—to do the following. It seems to me, having make progress at work. been one of the many colleagues who went to see the performance of “If Chloe Can” when it was turned into Esther McVey: That was a very pertinent point and a play and who also saw the production in Speaker’s well made. Child care is key and needs to be addressed House, that if the Government and the Minister really in many ways. It is not just a question of costing it out want to do something useful, giving some support and and paying for it. There could be tax incentives. There funding to allow that to go around the country as my could be tax reliefs. We could perhaps start with just hon. Friend envisages would be far more worth while women setting up in business or look to help people on than just talking about these things. the new enterprise allowance. Obviously there will be budget constraints, but we have to think smarter. We Esther McVey: I thank my hon. Friend very much. I have to think about how we will use Government money, would never have been so bold as to make such a plea, but we also have to facilitate women so that they can but as he has, on my behalf, I shall endorse it thoroughly. add to the economy, because a woman’s life is, as we have stated, a complex life. The desire to have children is I argue not only that women have reached a pivotal one of the most basic desires and needs to be fulfilled. point, but that we need to understand and ensure that we in the broader sense—all of society—support the Anna Soubry: One change that has occurred in recent complex female life cycle. I am talking about the life times is that the number of child minders has gone cycle of a woman as mother, carer and nurturer. We down—in my view, because of over-regulation. Does also need to understand how those biological and atavistic my hon. Friend agree that we must ensure that there is needs drive, motivate and influence women’s choices. less regulation to enable more people to act as child Women’s natural predisposition to be carers and nurturers minders? That would reduce the costs of child care and regularly dictates the style and type of job that they do, be much more convenient to a number of women, the type of business that they establish and the choice of especially those who do not have the money available to hours worked in order to fit around the needs of their them to put their child in a nursery, to employ a nanny family. Perhaps targets for the extra number of businesses or to use some other rather expensive means of looking that women should set up, how much extra they could after their children. add to the economy or how great a percentage could be on a board are artificial and too simplistic a range of Esther McVey: Absolutely. That is a point well made. targets and do not take into account innate human I will be raising those issues at the end of my speech so desires. that the Minister can take them forward and see what 5WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 6WH we can do. We believe in market forces and fairness. “capital and 53% lower return on equity. The differing attitudes Obviously, if there are more people prepared to do child to risk and governance means that having a female board member minding as a job and support other people, that should cuts your company’s chances of going bust by up to 20%. bring the costs down. We have to ask why the costs have The retention and promotion of talented women at senior risen so dramatically and therefore limited women in levels is one of the simplest, most…effective and easiest methods what they can do. They have to put their ambitions on of dramatically improving your business’s bottom line.” hold while they look after their family. All those things must be taken into account. People must appreciate and understand the differences between As well as considering the support provided and the men and women, embrace those differences and bring size and shape of business, we must examine lifelong them onboard, because only then will they truly understand learning. We must examine education for girls. Helen the benefit of having more women in key positions. Fraser, chief executive of the Girls’ Day School Trust, said: I want to move away from the business world to look at global leaders, because they are key. Women are “We are living in a time of change and flux and it’s almost coming of age as global leaders. Things are shifting. We impossible to predict what the eventual outcome will be. What we can and must do is prepare our young people, and for the have gone into a financially chaotic period, and women certainty of change, ensure they have the skills and attitudes they are coming through in places experiencing war-torn will need to survive and thrive, and help them (young women upheaval. We cannot talk about female leaders and especially) develop the resilience to overcome setbacks, whatever understand them, or have today’s debate, without referring happens. to Nobel prize winner, Aung San Suu Kyi, who spoke in The idea that your education finishes when you leave school or Parliament last week. She was awarded the Nobel peace university no longer holds true—today’s young people can expect prize in 1991 for her non-violent struggle for democracy to learn and re-learn throughout their lives. Additional qualifications, and human rights. She is one of the most extraordinary second and even third degrees are likely to become more commonplace examples of civil courage in Asia in recent decades and as people re-invent themselves and re-energise their careers. And has become an important symbol in the struggle against if education is no longer linked only to the early stages in life—to oppression. The Nobel committee gave her the peace childhood and youth—then developing attitudes that characterise prize for her unflagging efforts and to show its support successful learners is just as important as developing knowledge. Learning how to learn, developing physical and mental discipline, for the many people throughout the world striving to being open and engaged with the world, cultivating a true love of attain democracy, human rights and ethnic conciliation learning—these matter as much as knowing facts and figures and in peaceful times. formulae.” We also need to refer to the latest Noble peace prize, The reason why I asked Helen Fraser to contribute a which went jointly to three women: Liberian president, quote to this important debate was not just—I say Ellen Johnson Sirleaf; Liberian peace advocate, Leymah “just” lightly—that she is chief executive of the Girls’ Gbowee; and Tawakkol Karman, a leading figure in the Day School Trust, a group of girls’ schools. Before that, Yemenipro-democracy movement. They were all recognised she was managing director of a global company, Penguin “for their non-violent struggle for the safety of women and for Books. Therefore I felt that she had seen both sides of women’s rights to full participation in peace-building work”. the coin. She has been a mum and wife and a successful I would argue that women’s mothering and nurturing business woman, and now is a business woman again in predisposition helps in non-violent struggles, with the world of education. co-operation, consensual understanding and empathy; Following on from that, Professor Lesley Yellowlees, perhaps, like a mother for a child, there is the same love president-elect of the Royal Society of Chemistry—the for supporters and country, and they could take their first woman to be elected president in its 171-year country and the struggle of the nation to a new phase of history—says: development. “The UK needs a highly skilled workforce, particularly if we Professor Parveen Kumar, the president of the Royal are going to make headway in these bleak economic times. More Society of Medicine, professor of medicine and education and more young women are studying science at university to the at Barts in London and the leading light in global point where we have a near 50-50 balance in chemistry. health, wrote the definitive medical text book used all The problem today is not women entering science, but keeping round the world, including Asia and Africa. She is them there and retaining all those skills and talent that can and trying to take on new technology to distribute it as does make a massive contribution to the global economy. cheaply as possible to emerging nations. She set in motion active support and engagement with royal society For the chemical sciences, that contribution is worth £258 billion, or 21 per cent, to the country’s GDP, according to an independent members—all 23,000—so that they could help and support report the RSC commissioned in 2010. some of the most needy people in the world. Women are playing a greater role in science than ever before—but She analysed the health statistics on child and infant we can do much more. This is just one of the areas I will be mortality, and, with Carolyn Miller, chief executive of focusing on as I begin my two-year term next month as the first the international health charity, Merlin, assisted Madam female President of the Royal Society of Chemistry.” Ellen Johnson Sirleaf to raise health standards, provide She says that she will make helping women not just to books, support and a new wing of a hospital, and to get into science but to stay there a key issue. She will be teach, not only doctors, but, this year, the first cohort of doing that through role models. midwifery qualifications. As Professor Kumar and Carolyn Miller say, helping women globally is key—if you help Maxine Benson, a co-founder of everywoman, says: and educate a women, you help the family, the child and “GenderDiversity isn’t just a nice thing to have; it is the solution the next generation. to a business loss. Businesses with fewer women on the board If we put together a picture of women globally, we make 42% lower return on sales, 66% lower return on” see that it is not only about finance, the support that investment they give others or education. They are not necessarily 7WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 8WH

[Esther McVey] I am struck by the various avenues and fields that the award has covered: charity, learning, support and media. driven by high status or the turnover of a business, but Past winners include Claire Lara, the chef; Lisa Collins, appear to be a cohesive glue. A woman will be the the business woman; Pauline Daniels, the stand-up mother of every child who ever populates the earth. comedian; Kim Cattrall, the actress—yes, she came Through that, they seem to act more laterally and less from Merseyside too—Edwina Currie; and Carla Lane. hierarchically. They seem to reach out to fill the vacuum A plethora of women have won the award, which is that might be left in society. supported by three incredible women: Jean Gadsby, I want to talk about global communicators. Ellen Kerr and Elaine Owen, who have come together and supported the award. This year—the 10th year—they Anna Soubry: Before my hon. Friend moves on to the are taking it to the next level. They want to support and next subject, would she agree with me about charities? I fund women. They are putting a bursary together to do am slightly connected with Women for Women, which that for the next generation of women. raises a considerable amount of money to invest in There are things to be asked of the Government. I women in what are often war-torn countries. It recognises have spoken at length about the various things that that one way to restore broken lives and families, including women do and achieve but, as has been touched on, we in areas of strife, is to empower and enable women to need role models for women—visible signs of female work and rebuild families. That charitable work is to be accomplishment. Something simple that Boni Sones commended. wanted was pictures of women, even in Parliament, or Esther McVey: Absolutely, it is indeed. We can see in the National gallery, celebrating success. The images such efforts in many organisations, of which that is one, of women constantly before us do not show them in where women come together to build lives, help co-operation successful, powerful roles, but in weaker, consumer or and make the world a better place, as they perceive it, sexualised roles. A few more paintings would seem a for their children and the next generation. Part of that meagre request. message has to be about communication; getting the story to the outside world and telling the tales of Anna Soubry: Is not that one of the peculiarities and women that might not otherwise be heard can help. tensions of the issue? Speaking—forgive me, Mr Turner—as The formidable Christina Lamb is possibly one of an old feminist, I suggest that one of the ironies of the our best war journalists. She said that she always thought feminist movement is that in this day and age arguably that she would help people, perhaps providing assistance there is even more pressure on young women to aspire and support as a doctor, but she turned out to be a to a certain body image. Equally, we have a terrible journalist, travelling the world providing a voice for celebrity culture. We could have good, strong role models particularly women, families and children, who would for women, but young women aspire to what the media not otherwise have one. In doing so, she has told their too often put forward. That does not advance women in stories around the globe and got them the medical help, society. In many ways it has taken us back decades. the medicine and the support and protection that they required. In her own way, she has been a healer. Esther McVey: I would completely agree, as would many young girls. The 2010 survey by Girlguiding UK I make special reference to Boni Sones, who set up examined what was forming girls’ attitudes to work and Parliamentary Radio to link women and women MPs what was driving and motivating them to take up jobs. not only in the UK but around the globe. She says: It was what they saw in the media; and usually the jobs “Women journalists in the UK and women across party in the were powerless ones. In 2010, it was still a major ambition British Parliament have been using new technology and new journalistic practices to talk about the issues they have been of girls to be a hairdresser, rather than an engineer, championing to improve the lives of the women and families they because that was what they saw. The ambition was to be represent in their constituencies. They are now trying, via a a beautician rather than a scientist, to be a WAG rather BlackBerry Apprentices to ‘link in’ women in Parliaments across than a lawyer, to be someone’s other half rather than to the Globe to their web based radio station so that they then achieve in their own right. broadcast stories” and success stories, not only about them, but about Anna Soubry: Does my hon. Friend agree that, despite other women across the globe. She continues: the fact that she received a lot of criticism, there was “The World is indeed becoming ‘flat’ as new media allows new much merit in the speech by Cherie Blair last week? She connections like this one to take place. Previously broadcasters identified a problem with the aspirations of too many required FM frequencies and line-bookings, now the internet and young women, who aim just to marry a rich man, and mobile phones like the BlackBerry device can allow programme see that as the be-all and end-all of their lives. In the makers to broadcast all over the World.” same way, unfortunately, the only aspiration of a number Boni is a visionary. She set up that project in Parliament, of very young women in our society is still to be a but she is seeking to make global links to tell stories mother. That is why we have such a high teenage pregnancy across the world. rate. They see nothing else in their lives besides having a It is important to celebrate women’s achievements. baby. That in itself can provide role models, allowing others to see what has been achieved and what women, too, Esther McVey: When I go round schools, one of the could achieve. I want to talk specifically about Merseyside key things that I say is “What would you like to achieve women of the year. The award is ten years old this year, for yourself? It is great if you get the perfect partner and the ceremony will take place on Friday. It began as and have children. Those are other things, and part of a very small event looking at women in business, but your life; but what are you doing with your life? How grew and grew with the formidable courage of the ladies will you shape and craft it? Should your husband leave involved and did not remain just about business. you, what will you do? When your kids eventually grow 9WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 10WH up, as they do—and there is a massive vacuum in a the Lead survey which showed that an amazing two thirds of mother’s life when a child leaves—what will you do; and award-winning women have previously been a Brownie, Guide or how can you fulfil your aim?” Sometimes, when I am member of the Senior Section. speaking to 12 to 18-year-olds, that all seems so far Therefore we call upon all those involved in public life to join away. Tomorrow seems far away. When I am speaking us in ensuring that they play their role in providing opportunities on a Monday, Friday night seems a long time away. to enable young women to exercise their power, make their voices Nevertheless, I try to make that point. heard and strengthen their role in the global economy.” To return to what I ask of the Government, the issues I hope that she will not mind my mentioning this are role models, visible signs of accomplishment, and story, but I always tell the girls I speak to about Debbie child support, for women and children. Greater family Moore. It is funny in hindsight; but so many things and pre-family support and education is a key thing, so seem funny in hindsight. She was a successful model that, as early as possible, women fully understand the and at 19 married the man who would have been the life-changing choice of whether to have a child. Other love of her life, a photographer. She thought that was it; issues are support for women setting up businesses—women her life was perfect. She had peaked. Two years on, it are nearly five times more likely to cite family reasons was their second wedding anniversary. He went off to for setting up a career—and support for female-run work and she waved him goodbye, knowing she had a businesses, although I do not exclude male-run businesses, magnificent celebration prepared for him when he came which should have support too. Access to finance for home that night. She waited, and he did not come business is also relevant to both males and females, but home. The next morning he still did not. He had run particularly to women, because usually they start off away and dumped her for a younger model. She was with much lower capitalisation. They have humbler only 21 and he had run off with a 19-year-old girl. aspirations and desires, and are more than happy to She suffered turmoil, devastation and upset, of course, start off with less money. Equally, they take fewer and through the stress a thyroid imbalance set in, so she gambles, so they will have done more research when ballooned, then lost weight. That was not conducive to they set up a business, and they ask for less money. We a modelling career, because she would arrive at an feel that more mentoring support is key. interview one size, and arrive at the photo shoot another I will close today with a quote from my colleague and size. When she asked the doctors if there were potions good friend, Bettany Hughes, who is an award-winning or pills to help her, they said that there were not, but historian and broadcaster, and a research fellow at that possibly gentle exercise would suit her. She said, “I King’s College London. She said: hate the gym, and I hate jogging. Oh, but I don’t mind “The oldest surviving 3D sculpture in the world, 40,000 years dancing.” She took up dancing and learned more and old and carved from the tusk of a woolly mammoth, is of a more. From that beginning she set up the Pineapple woman. For the next 40,000 years, close on 92% of all extant dance studio and dance clothes range, and became the human figures are of the female form—telling us that when homo first woman to set up a public limited company. She sapiens tried to work out what it was to be human, the female of always says that the best opportunities can come from the species was conspicuous not by her absence but by her the greatest adversity. It is a question of what people do presence. In this epoch human-kind invented religion, cities, with them. Who would think, she asks, that after all the farming, tools, philosophy, democracy…the list is endless. Archaeology devastation and upset, she would, many years after the and history show us that throughout this massive bulk of human experience—from 400,000 BC to around 400 AD—women have event, thank the man who left her, because he made her enjoyed substantial standing and influence and sway in society. a multi-millionairess? I try to emphasise to girls that the Plato opined, ‘Nothing can be more absurd than the practice that question is not what someone else can do for them, but prevails in our country of men and women not following the same what they can do for themselves. pursuits with all their strength and with one mind, because when this happens, the state, instead of being a whole, is reduced to a A list of the percentage of women in business and in half.’ How true. Why choose to live in the half world of Plato’s various careers shows that they account for only 22% of imagining when we can flourish in a full one? MPs, peers and Cabinet members. Women have 35% of The word Man comes from…‘Manu’ meaning mind or thought. senior civil service places; 9% of Supreme Court justices Mankind is a global community not of humans with an excess of are women. They account for 45% of general practitioners, the Y chromosome, but of creatures who think. We, both man 31% of NHS consultants, and 19% of university professors. and woman, think best together. This is not a plea from 50% of There is much that can be done to change that, but the the population—but a recommendation for all 100%. Both male question to ask is “What do you want to do; what do and female can draw comfort from this truth—I think and you need to fulfil in yourself? There are a plethora of therefore I am, a man.” jobs out there; what do you feel would fulfil your potential and aspirations?” To go back to the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe 10.11 am (Anna Soubry), seeing women purely as glamorous, Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con): I congratulate my sexualised beings has many ramifications. If women are hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) thought of only in visual terms, rather than in terms of on securing this debate. As I have mentioned before, I what is in them, that takes away their power. That stunts support much of what she says. I also congratulate her their aspirations, because they do not see women in on her careful thought, the construction of her speech powerful positions; they see them only as an addition to and her considerable research. someone else. I will not speak for long; unfortunately, I am sitting Chief Guide Gill Slocombe said: on the Defamation Bill, which starts at 10.30. I should “We believe that today’s young women have enormous potential not say “unfortunately”, because it is always a great to promote change at a local, national and international level. pleasure to sit on a Public Bill Committee, but I will This belief is further backed up with the results of our Women in have to keep my comments short. 11WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 12WH

[Anna Soubry] attitude had changed—not only to background, school, the colour of skin, race and religion, but to women. Obviously, I speak as a woman. I am an old feminist There had been a great advancement of women at the and the mother of two daughters, aged 20 and 21. All criminal Bar. We are now reaching the point when my life, I have been opposed to any form of stereotyping, almost half of the people at the criminal Bar are whether it is based on gender, sexual preferences, colour women, which is to be celebrated. Women are just as of skin, race, religion or whatever. capable as any man at either prosecuting or defending Although I agree with so much of what my hon. in criminal cases, however difficult that case may be. Friend said, I just put into the mix a little bit of caution. I will not delay you for much longer, Mr Turner, but I I accept that as a woman, my biology means that there want to reiterate this point about child care. There is will be some natural urge or instinct to have a child. As a very real need, especially among those who are not a mother, therefore, I realise that many of us have particularly well paid, to return to the world of work. mothering instincts. However, there is a danger of saying The reasons for that are often economic, but not always. that all the great attributes of someone such as Aung This may not be understood by some men, but many San Suu Kyi, for example, come from the fact that she is women want to go back to work not just because they a woman. I take the view that she has a steely determination, want to earn the money, but because they want the which is found in both women and men. Her nature to social side and the interaction that comes from it. At the care and to make considerable self-sacrifice is not because moment, however, we have a profound problem in our she is a mother but because she is a great human being, country. A number of women, on finishing their maternity and both men and women have those attributes. There leave, look at the cost of returning to work and find that is a danger if we say that women have a particular side the amount of money that they will earn is the same as of them that lends itself to the more nurturing and what they will have to expend on child care. We need to caring professions. tackle that. Those of us who have practised law will remember Finally, mentoring was mentioned by my hon. Friend. the days—I am certainly old enough to—when as young How right she was. Certainly at the Bar, there were female barristers we were undoubtedly encouraged to mentoring schemes to help women. Mentoring is an practise in the family law division. There was an assumption admirable scheme and works especially well for women. that we would want to do so. When I first went to the Bar, more than 30 years ago, it was difficult for women to advance not only within the profession but at the 10.19 am criminal Bar because it was seen as a combative arena, which indeed it is, and not the sort of arena that women Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con): Thank you, Mr Turner, would want to engage in. for calling me to speak. It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) Esther McVey: My role model was a woman called in this debate. She has to go off to a Public Bill Committee. Rose Heilbron, who went to my school. She was the I hope that you, Mr Turner, the hon. Member for first woman to get a first in law from Liverpool, to get a Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green), who is the shadow first at Gray’s Inn and to do a murder trial. When the Minister for Equalities, the Minister for Equalities and male criminal, who was up for murder, saw her, he said, my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Esther “My God, I knew things were bad, but now I have seen McVey) will all forgive me as I have to go off to a Select who is representing me, I see things are worse.” Committee soon, so I will be unable to stay for the Rose’s desire to go into the law came from a desire to wind-up speeches. I apologise in advance for that. help other people. It was a case of, “There but for the grace of God go I”. She had been a refugee. Her desire In all honesty, I was not intending to speak in this to support others and to ensure that everybody had debate. When I heard my hon. Friend the Member for access to the law was what motivated her. Although I Wirral West speak, I was even less keen, given how agree that women are not the only part of the population much research she has done on this subject. She made a to have these caring, nurturing and mothering beliefs, fantastic speech and clearly knows her stuff. I have not many studies have linked those qualities with the fact done any research at all, Mr Turner, so I would not that we give birth. They say that our biological differences want you to compare my speech with that of my hon. are the key motivating factor for why women take up a Friend, because it certainly will not compare. However, job and pursue a profession. More than 80% of social the things that she said have prompted me to make a enterprises involve women, and that is down to our few points. biological differences. I commend my hon. Friend because, as I said in one of my interventions, her work with “If Chloe Can” is Anna Soubry: I am extremely grateful for that intervention truly inspirational to lots of girls. She attended a theatre from my hon. Friend who has researched the matter production, when “If Chloe Can” made its debut in the and clearly knows a great deal more than me. Although west end, and saw a thousand schoolgirls from many I agree with much of what she says, I want to add a note deprived parts of London hugely excited, not only by of caution so that those who perhaps do not fully the production by the National Youth Theatre—which support the advancement of women or the feminist I also compliment—but by seeing some fantastic women cause do not rely too much on our natural instincts as from all walks of life who she had persuaded to attend. mothers, nurturers and carers to say, “That is all well Those women talked about their life stories and encouraged and good and that is where you should stay.” those girls to think they could achieve something with Let me return to the point I was making before my their lives and achieve their ambitions if they set out to hon. Friend’s intervention. When I returned to the Bar, do so, irrespective of their backgrounds. All that is some 20 years ago, I was struck by how much its inspirational. 13WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 14WH

The work that my hon. Friend has done in pursuing would certainly be the most important factor for me that aim is truly amazing. Lots of people in politics talk regarding my children—is that their children are happy a good game, but I must say that there are not that and safe, and that they are in a happy and safe environment. many who go through the motions of doing something. Whether or not the childminder has a degree is of no She does not just talk about things; she goes out and consequence to me whatever. does the things I have described, quietly getting on with The Government have to start trusting parents a lot it. She should be commended greatly for the work that more. Parents are perfectly capable of deciding who is a she does. I say that even though she only half-agreed good childminder and who is not without the Government with my opening intervention, but I will overlook that imposing unnecessary regulations on the child care fact for now. sector and making people have increasingly large amounts I will talk about a couple of things. My hon. Friend of qualifications that are totally unnecessary. The talked about the pay gap between men and women in Government should just let parents get on with choosing their late 30s and 40s, which contrasts with the situation the right childminder for their children, which may end when they are in their 20s. It struck me that there was up being cheaper, thereby allowing women to return to something rather inevitable about that particular problem, work. and I am not entirely sure that anything can be done—or indeed, should be done—to address it. However, there is scope for helping children with child care. My starting point is that so many people in If a man carries on working through his 20s and 30s, this country seem to have decided that they do not want one hopes that he will progress in his job, whereas a to work that when people clearly want to work, the woman may have made her own choice to leave work to Government should be out there, giving them as much have a child before coming back to work later. It would support as possible so that they can. If there are lots of be bizarre if the woman came back on the same pay or women who would prefer to go out to work and who higher pay than the man who had been slaving away for want to achieve something in life, there is a role for the an extra 10 or 15 years in that particular company. It Government in trying to make that process as easy as seems to me that some of these things, whether they are possible. right or wrong, are simply inevitable and are not a matter for the Government to start interfering with. I should say in passing that I do not think that it is They simply reflect the inevitability of life. useful to frown on those women who want not to go out to work but to stay at home and bring up their children. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I am They should be encouraged to do so and they should always interested in hearing what the hon. Gentleman not be looked down on by others for making that has to say on this subject. Although I understand the choice. The issue is that we should help people to fulfil argument he is making about the impact of taking time their ambitions and to make the choices that they want out of the workplace, does he accept that one potential to make. solution to the problem he describes is to share the time I also want to touch on maternity leave and the kinds out of the workplace more equitably between fathers of regulations that apply. I do not think that anybody and mothers, and to take measures to promote that objects to the principle of maternity leave, but we sharing of time away from work? should be rather careful because lots of things that can Philip Davies: The hon. Lady makes a fair point. The be well meaning and that seem, on the face of it, to be a bit that I am not particularly convinced about is that good thing for women can end up, in practical terms, even if we equalise the opportunities for men and being a barrier for women. women to take time off work to look after children, my Whether people like it or not, and whether other hon. guess—I am not an expert in these matters, but this is Members in this room want to acknowledge it or not, I my guess—is that through nature women will be more suspect that there are still many people in businesses out likely to want to take that time off work than men. I there who look at a woman of a certain age, see how old could be completely wrong, but that is my guess. We can they are—perhaps somebody in their late 20s, who has equalise the opportunity as much as possible, but I recently married—and think to themselves, “Hold on a suspect that even if we did so, women would be much minute. If I take this person on, the chances are that more likely to take maternity leave than men would be they will be leaving to have a child and I will be having a to take paternity leave. huge disruption to my business, and possibly a huge cost as well. I will find it very difficult to replace this Kate Green indicated dissent. person, particularly for a fixed period of time.” Philip Davies: The hon. Lady may disagree and if the As a result, that businessperson may not give that Government implement such a scheme, we will see what woman that particular opportunity, although otherwise happens. I hope that, if the Government do so and what they would have done. We have to guard against these I say proves to be true, she will come back and acknowledge well meaning schemes that are not actually providing that that was the case, rather than sticking to her sort of opportunities for women, but providing barriers to feminist dogma, which is not really wedded to the real women getting a job in the workplace. Before anyone world. runs away with the idea that it is just male employers However, I agree with some of the points that my who will think like that, I should say that I suspect that hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe made about female employers are just as prone to make that kind of child care and its regulation. We seem to have an decision as male employers are. obsession in this country with making every job in the We have got to look at certain companies. For my world a job that someone needs a degree to do. One of sins, before I entered Parliament I used to work for Asda. the latest examples of that is childminding. When parents For a company such as Asda, regulations and obligations look for a childminder, the most important factor—it are meat and drink. Asda employs 140,000 people, so 15WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 16WH

[Philip Davies] I congratulate the hon. Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) on securing what has been an engrossing having people take time off for maternity leave is absolutely debate. She is absolutely right to set as her territory the no problem at all. In fact, many companies of that size celebration of the socio-economic achievements of women will make a point of offering enhanced employment in this country and across the world. As I listened to her terms as a way of attracting the best people to work for speech, I was struck by how much our shared experience them, because they can afford to allow people to take as women unites us right across the world, in both time off. developed and developing economies. But I ask you, Mr Turner, to bear in mind those In the workplace, in business and in the family, in our companies that employ one or two people. If a small role as caregivers and managers of the household and businessman employs two people and one person takes its finances, and in our role in our communities, women’s off an ever-increasing amount of time, that causes huge experience is the same right across the world. It is disruption to their business—there may not even be a important to recognise that the structural barriers to successful business for that woman to go back to, given women’s advancement in this country are different not the disruption and cost incurred. Nobody objects to the in kind but in degree from those experienced by women Government’s wanting to introduce measures that genuinely in other economies, and that measures taken to dismantle help people, including women, in the workplace, but we them will have global applicability. It is absolutely right should be very careful about going over the top in that we should seek to dismantle the barriers, for exactly imposing too many onerous conditions on businesses the reasons that the hon. Member for Wirral West that will end up having exactly the opposite outcome to highlighted in quoting Plato, that proto-feminist—the the one intended. personal fulfilment of women and men, and the benefits If the Government want to help women in the global for our world and for society as a whole. economy and help them to fulfil their potential, the way I want to highlight some structural issues, a number to do that is exactly the way that my hon. Friend the of which have not been mentioned in the debate but are Member for Wirral West has been going about doing it, important. The hon. Members for Broxtowe (Anna which is to provide people with role models and to show Soubry) and for Shipley (Philip Davies), who unfortunately them how they can achieve their goals, irrespective of have had to leave the debate, raised some of these issues their background. It is to show them that even people and contributed interestingly to the discussion. who leave school with very few qualifications can achieve Despite progress in women’s socio-economic position, their goals if they have the right characteristics and the which the hon. Member for Wirral West rightly highlighted, right determination to go about their lives. I urge the there is still a clear difference between the income made Government to do those encouraging things and not to and assets held by women and men, although to some go down a politically correct route with quotas and degree that is mitigated by cash transfer programmes, other such things. which are effective in supporting women’s financial All we want—all I want, certainly—is for people to positions and those of their children—if women have be given jobs and opportunities on merit and merit money, they spend it on their families. In many developing alone. If we believe in true equality, surely we should be economies, there are still limitations on women’s property gender-blind; it should be irrelevant whether someone rights. It is important that we have strategies to address is male or female. I could not care less whether the those economic, income and wealth inequalities, and board of a company has 95% men or 95% women. All that we keep up a clear line of sight on progress. we should care about is that they are the best people for Several hon. Members rightly highlighted the importance the job and for the company. It will not advance women of access to education as a route to well paid jobs. if the Government go down the route of having quotas Across the world, women are typically in less secure, for this and quotas for that and politically correct more vulnerable and less well-paid employment, often decision making; that will make people feel that women because they work in sectors of the economy in which have got to where they are only through some situation pay and conditions are poorer. Education is clearly an that has been concocted to achieve a particular outcome. important answer to that segregation and employment That does not do women any good; it does no one any disadvantage, and it is key, therefore, that we look at favours. Everyone has to feel that everyone has got there whether our education system addresses that inherent on the same basis, and that basis should always be segregation. merit. The hon. Member for Wirral West pointed to the I commend what my hon. Friend the Member for progress in the participation of women in chemistry Wirral West has done in pursuing the agenda of merit studies but, regrettably, we do not see the same picture and in allowing women to fulfil their ambitions and across all the STEM subjects. In engineering, maths and dreams, and I hope that the Government follow that IT, women are under-represented after the age of 16, model rather than trying to have some “get equal quick” and in computer science the position is worse than it scheme, which would not advance women at all but was 20 years ago. The same picture is also seen in the advance political correctness and build up huge resentment much-fêted Nordic countries. We need strategies in our among the public. I will now allow the Front-Bench schools to address the education choices made by young spokespeople to have their say. I apologise again for women as they approach further and higher education, having to leave for my Select Committee. and schools themselves must think more creatively and imaginatively about career routes for women, and encourage 10.31 am girls to progress down them. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): It is a I am sorry that the hon. Member for Shipley has had pleasure to participate in this debate under your to leave the debate, although I understand why, because chairmanship, Mr Turner. I want to pick up on a couple of his points. On women 17WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 18WH as mothers, and on how that inhibits their labour market why only 25% of their enterprise allowance is taken up participation, he suggested that part of the problem was by women and whether more can be done to encourage some of the maternity rights that have been secured—after women entrepreneurs to take advantage of it. considerable fighting, to which the Minister has, in the This debate has rightly discussed women’s role as care recent past, contributed. givers. Lack of access to child care is inhibiting girls’ What determines women’s unpopularity with the kind and women’s participation and economic success. We of employers that the hon. Gentleman characterised is still hear, for example, of girls being forced out of not the right to maternity leave but the fact that they education when they become pregnant or are unable to can become mothers at all. Removing the right to access child care. The hon. Members for Broxtowe and maternity leave would not increase the propensity of for Shipley both suggested that the answer to the lack of such employers to take on women; they would simply affordable child care was to diminish regulation. I warn not employ them in the first place. It is right that we the Minister and her colleagues in the Government to should establish an institutional requirement that women be cautious about that. who have contributed to an employer’s business, have I am proud of the progress made under Labour to skilled up to be able to make that contribution and have increase the supply of child care. Between 1997 and a continuing contribution to offer should have their 2009, we went from one place for every nine children ability to return to their employment assured. As we under the age of eight to one place for every three. We know, retention of staff is a cost-effective way for massively increased child care supply. I am pleased that employers to operate their businesses, so there is an the coalition Government are continuing down the employer advantage as well. track of creating more places for two-year-olds, but I It is also important that we design shared parenting urge Ministers strongly not to weaken quality through arrangements in a way that genuinely facilitates equal deregulation. parenting by women and men. We await the Government’s A strong body of evidence suggests that good-quality response to their modern workplaces consultation, and child care and early-years interventions are the most I am concerned that any plans for redesigning parental important factor in improving long-term outcomes, leave should take account of what we know is effective especially for the poorest children highlighted by the in ensuring that both women and men are likely to take hon. Member for Broxtowe. In the Netherlands, where up leave entitlement. Much depends on whether the steps were taken to deregulate the provision of child leave is paid, and women, but particularly men, find it minding services, the adverse impact on children’s outcomes extremely difficult to take parental or paternity leave if has led the Dutch Government to reverse their decision. there is no income replacement. It is also important to I hope that Ministers learn from that. recognise that it is absolutely right to protect a certain period of maternity leave only for mothers, because of Finally, I will mention a couple of issues that did not pregnant women and new mothers’ health and well-being come up in this morning’s debate but are also important needs. to women’s participation as global economic actors. Violence against women continues to be a major issue. I was interested in the statistics on women in senior Of course, if a woman is suffering from violence and positions that the hon. Member for Wirral West highlighted. abuse, that is likely to affect her economic and educational She cited a number of disappointing statistics from the performance as well as being a fundamental attack on public sector, but in many ways the position is even her human rights. All Governments have rightly given worse in the private sector; only 15% of FTSE 100 the issue considerable attention. It is not confined to companies have a woman on their board. I congratulate our country; we must fight and address it around the the Government on their work over the past year or so world, as well as addressing women’s voices and autonomy to influence a change in behaviour at board level in our to control and determine choices relating to their own leading companies, and it is good to see some of that lives. bearing fruit. I could highlight many such choices. We have discussed I hope that the next thing that the other political educational choices, but we have not talked much about parties would like to learn from—I am thinking about health and reproductive choices, or women’s opportunity what genuinely advances women into positions of to shape their own communities and whether or not influence—is the Labour party’s success in significantly they can secure political participation. It is important increasing female parliamentary representation through that the right institutional structures are in place to the use of all-women shortlists. I would say to the hon. ensure that women’s voices can be heard and are given a Member for Shipley that of course we want people to legitimate place in the public political process. The advance on merit, but we must first ensure that they are Beijing platform for action for the advancement of advancing from a level playing field; too often, as I am women is a useful framework in which to do so. If the sure the Minister would agree, women are not. Minister has time, I would be interested to hear, now I was interested in the points made by the hon. that we no longer have the Women’s National Commission, Member for Wirral West about encouraging more women how she thinks the institutional machinery will work to to become entrepreneurs and start new businesses. We preserve women’s institutional political influence in the absolutely want to encourage that, both in this country UK. and around the world. Much of the difficulty that It has been a pleasure to participate in this debate. women experience in starting a new business relates to I congratulate the hon. Member for Wirral West and all factors such as lenders’perceptions. Interesting experiments speakers on their consideration of an interesting and have been done in the developing world with microfinance worthwhile set of issues. It is important that we continue and access to credit, and they could be translated into to celebrate women as decision makers and women’s this country. I hope that the Government will consider participation in the economy, family life and their 19WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 20WH

[Kate Green] family law division, but resisted. Things have changed in law, which is fantastic, but unfortunately, in many communities, and continue to strive for their continuing other areas, they have not. The career choices made by advancement—not just for women’s sake, but for the school leavers have huge economic consequences. As good of our society as a whole. my hon. Friend said, if someone chooses to be a beautician or a hairdresser, that is absolutely fine, but they should 10.44 am recognise that it is an economic choice. If they choose a higher-paying career, their choices in life will be very The Minister for Equalities (Lynne Featherstone): It is different. That is an important issue in our action on a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner. careers. I hugely congratulate the hon. Member for Wirral West The new national careers service will encourage girls (Esther McVey) on securing this important debate and and women to challenge stereotypes by giving the broadest making one of the most exceptional, wide-ranging and of options. It will provide information on a wide range well-researched speeches on the issue that I have heard. of opportunities, such as studying science and maths, We all know that the UK, European and world for example, which were mentioned by the hon. Member economies continue to face significant challenges. In for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green). She also these tough times, Governments and companies around mentioned STEM subjects. A recently announced funding the globe are looking for every available competitive programme, in which the Department for Business, advantage. This Government believe that in doing so, Innovation and Skills will work with the Royal Society, we must utilise fully women’s skills and potential. It is a will focus on increasing diversity in the scientific work no-brainer, really; it is obvious. It makes sense: it is force. Over four years, a total of £700,000 will be good for women, for our economy and for British invested in work to overcome the barriers to girls studying business. We will create a more competitive economy STEM subjects and entering related industries. That is and a more equal society. incredibly important. Early choices are hard to make up I congratulate all who have taken part in this debate. for later. Significant contributions were made by almost all the I will mention the hon. Member for Shipley (Philip Members who have taken part. The hon. Member for Davies) only briefly, as he is not here. I must cast Wirral West mentioned role models and global leaders. aspersions on the idea that men get there on merit Aung San Suu Kyi and others have been significant in alone. Often, men get there just because they have been raising our eyes to the magnificence that is possible. there all the way. There is something exceptionally wonderful about someone of the size and shape of Aung San Suu Kyi standing On enterprise, as we have heard, if we want our against the military might of Burma. The contrast was economy to grow, it is vital that we support more incredibly effective, and we were all moved listening to women to set up and grow their own businesses. Last her. week, we published details about the army of women who are backing us to boost business. The Government While I am praising famous women, I mention Hillary have provided funding for 15,000 mentors to support Clinton, who has done magnificently in her role as those setting up and growing their own business. The Secretary of State, as a good example of someone who hon. Member for Wirral West has said how many more has raised the profile of women. So are the women who businesses we would have if more women began start-ups. stood shoulder to shoulder in Egypt during the revolution. I am pleased to announce that, as of last week, more We now wait with bated breath to see whether they will than 12,000 mentors have registered, 40% of whom—almost secure the political rights and freedoms that should go 5,000—are women. I was fortunate, because my mother with such a change. had her own business, so when I needed help to set up I am proud that this Government have placed women my design business, I could ring her to ask how to do a and children at the heart of our international development business plan, a VAT return and so on. It was easy and, policy with a strategic vision for girls and women, in a sense, the business mentors are like mothers or which highlights the importance of economic fathers who can give people personal advice that they empowerment, for example, and sets ambitious targets may otherwise feel inhibited about requesting. for developing countries to reach by 2014 in order to On women in rural enterprise, we have published help 18 million women access financial services and details of a £2 million programme to help female 4.5 million to strengthen their property rights. Hon. entrepreneurs in rural areas—there is a specific difficulty Members are right that we in the United Kingdom have in such areas—to start or grow their own businesses. We much in common with our sisters around the world have set up the women’s business council, which is who, wherever they are on the spectrum, tend not to be chaired by Ruby McGregor-Smith, the chief executive on an equal footing. officer of the FTSE 250 company Mitie. She was named Interestingly, the hon. Member for Wirral West business leader of the year at the Orange national mentioned image and gender stereotyping. It drives me business awards in 2011 and leads a prestigious group mad that we are always represented as either servile or of UK business people drawn from a wide range of sexual. The Government are doing a great deal of work sectors. Over the coming months, the council will examine on that. Although some say that that is the nanny state, the full range of issues affecting women’s economic I say that it is essential that the Government take a participation in education, work and entrepreneurship, stand on the sexualisation of children and the conformity both from the perspective of women and the choices imposed on us by singular images and gender stereotyping. they face and, importantly, from the perspective of My hon. Friend the Member for Broxtowe (Anna business. The issue of women’s lives, which are complex, Soubry) discussed how, when she was younger and has been raised, and at its next meeting the council will planning to be a lawyer, she was almost forced into the consider issues relating to women’s economic participation 21WH Women (Global Economy)26 JUNE 2012 Women (Global Economy) 22WH with regard to three key life stages. Following its deliberation, choices made early on. The case studies show that the council will consider its conclusions and produce its adopting the principles behind the Government’s voluntary final report, which will outline a series of practical steps approach to diversity at work has helped leading firms that Government, business and individuals can take to reap business benefits. We strongly believe that a light-touch support women and the economy. The report will be approach, such as “Think, Act, Report”, is the best way presented to Ministers next spring. to encourage most employers to deal with the complex On work, I do not know about the two remaining causes of unequal pay. They have to think about gender Members—the hon. Members for Wirral West and for differences, act on them and then publish, in whatever Stretford and Urmston—but I have children, and form suits them best, what they have found, what they negotiating responsibilities is very difficult. I have to do are doing and their best practice. a lot of planning and be very good at multi-tasking, If the voluntary method is the best way to progress, organising and responding to unexpected last-minute we also need a stick for those companies that do not events. It can be done, but nevertheless the introduction follow this progressive agenda, so it is right that we take of the right to request flexible working for all, as well as strong action in the few cases in which employers have shared parental leave will address some of those very been shown to have breached the law. That is why we difficult issues. Many of our most forward-thinking recently announced that we intend to proceed with our employers already understand that. Although the hon. proposal that where an employment tribunal finds that Member for Shipley said that small businesses have an employer has breached equal pay law, it will order difficulties, it is actually the case that businesses such as them to conduct a pay audit in cases where continuing mine—I had one with four members of staff—go to the discrimination is likely. If an employer has already been ends of the earth to be flexible for their staff. Arranging found to be bad, there is reason to instruct further. We work around the familial needs of a good member of intend to legislate when parliamentary time allows. staff benefits businesses in the long run. They need to I am slightly short of time, but let me address access invest in the good employees who work for them—they to finance, which is a huge issue. I have been working will give back more than they could ever give them. with the British Bankers Association to understand That is an important development. those areas in which there may be discrimination or The hon. Gentleman also said that businesses look at barriers against women accessing loans for business or women of child-bearing age and say, “I’m not going to mortgages. A report will be issued shortly. employ her, because she may go off and have a baby,” The Government and Lord Davies have made progress but shared parental leave will mean that employers will on the issue of women on boards. There has been a no longer to be able to say with any certainty whether it great improvement in the number of women on FTSE is the man or woman who has applied for a job who will 100 boards—representation has risen from 12.5% to take that leave when they have children. Frankly, when I 16%—and it is on target to reach 25%. Only eight had children, men were involved in the process. all-male boards remain in the FTSE 100, which is eight Last week, the Government announced that they will boards too many. One woman on a board is insufficient, establish a new commission to look at the costs of child but we will reach the 25% target. From October, there care, which is one of the biggest issues that women face will be a new provision in the corporate governance across the board. The cost of child care is huge. I spent code, which will require companies to comply or explain all my money on child care when my children were their policies. young and I was working. The new commission will be We have made it clear that we will not introduce led by Ministers from the Department for Work and quotas. We have a role to play in ensuring that the right Pensions and the Department for Education. We realise frameworks are in place to enable business to thrive, the huge costs and the bearing they have on women and which is what our business-led approach does. We do their families. not believe that European Union-wide standards are On top of that, as has been mentioned, we are appropriate—a discussion is ongoing and we have supporting child-care costs to families who work less responded to a consultation on quotas—given the different than 16 hours a week, by providing an extra £300 million corporate governance rules, economies and labour market for child-care support under universal credit. Eighty conditions across member states. We also recognise that thousand more families with children will be able to cultural expectations play a role. In the UK, we do not work the hours that they choose. We have increased free have a culture of using quotas. In fact, they are not early education to 15 hours a week for three and four- lawful under our domestic legislation. At the moment, year-olds, and we are extending the entitlement to free we are making good progress. education and care for 260,000 of the most disadvantaged The hon. Lady raised the issue of all-women shortlists, two-year-olds to 15 hours a week. Working families can which led to a step change in representation in Parliament. currently claim substantial help with additional child-care I believe that they are available until 2030. Both Labour costs through working tax credit. From 2013, the and the Conservatives have taken huge steps forward, Government’s new universal credit will support those and the Liberal Democrats would also have done so who work, by ensuring that they are better off by doing had we had more women in winnable seats. so. More will always be needed on child care, but the This has been an excellent debate. We could discuss new commission is specifically tasked with dealing with many things that Members on both sides of the House the costs of child care, because that is one of the biggest are trying to address. I do not think that the differences inhibitors for women who want to return to work. between us on this issue are as huge as some of the On equal pay, which I think the hon. Member for views expressed in Parliament may lead us to believe. Stretford and Urmston mentioned, we have published We all need to make sure that, from the earliest point in our updates on our “Think, Act, Report” initiative, life, girls are given the choices that will enable them to some of which relate to the economic consequences of progress. There is a difference between the lives of men 23WH Women (Global Economy) 26 JUNE 2012 24WH

[Lynne Featherstone] BME Communities (Educational Attainment) and women, but we are trying to equalise their status as much as we can by providing the support that is needed. There is a whole world of people out there, and half of 10.59 am them are women. Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) In conclusion, in a global economy the action that we (Lab): I am grateful to have been awarded this debate are taking across the world makes sense. It is good for on educational attainment in black and minority ethnic women, good for our economy and good for British communities, which was triggered by a couple of things business. In doing so, and in advancing the role of that have happened to me recently. women, we create a more competitive economy and a First, I have been holding a series of round-table more equal society. meetings in my constituency to help to define my priorities and constituency strategy, and the differential attainment levels of our young people were a particular concern. For example, the proportion of young black people achieving more than five A* to C GCSEs in 2011, including English and maths, was 38.5%, compared with 47.5% for young Asian people and 69% for young white people. Although there has been significant improvement in those disparities since 2008, they remain of grave concern. Secondly, I was horrified to hear—as I am sure many others were—the recent statistical release from the Office of National Statistics, which revealed that, nationally, 55.5% of economically active black men aged between 16 and 24 years are unemployed, and that this rate has doubled since 2008. For young black people, the unemployment rate is 44.4%; similarly, 27.6% of Asian young people are unemployed, rising from 22.8% in 2008. Breaking that down, 33.6% of Pakistani and Bangladeshi young people are unemployed, and 24.2% of Indian young people, which compares with 20% of white British young people. Those national trends are reflected in my constituency, too. I have called the debate to examine educational attainment in BME communities, but it is important to note at the outset that although educational attainment influences employment, people with equivalent qualifications to those of different ethnicities experience different levels of employment. For example, young Indian people, who are the second highest performing group educationally, are more likely to be unemployed than their white peers. Similarly, Chinese graduates can expect to earn 25% less than their white counterparts. Thirty-six years on from the Race Relations Act 1976 and 12 years after the Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000, that is indefensible. We cannot wait for another 30 or 40 years to ensure that we deal with such questions. What are the specific issues in equalities and educational attainment? From the evidence, gaps in achievement can begin in the early years. For example, the Equality and Human Rights Commission triennial review states that the proportion of pupils achieving a good level of development in the early years foundation stage varies between different ethnic groups. Pupils from Irish, Indian, white British and mixed white and Asian backgrounds achieved more than the national average for a good level of development in 2009, but pupils from black, Bangladeshi and Pakistani ethnic groups did not perform so well. In all ethnic groups, girls outperformed boys significantly. The 2008 research undertaken by the Learning and Skills Network and the National Bureau for Students with Disabilities indicated that poor experiences at primary school often began a gradual but cumulative process of disengagement, which became entrenched in secondary 25WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 26WH Attainment) Attainment) school and resulted in lower achievement and lower healthily we will live. Our education, good or bad, engagement in post-16 participation in education or affects our whole lives. We must ensure that policy— training. I was particularly struck by the following education, employment, welfare and economic—strives statement from the report, on education: to reduce the inequalities that still exist. “Engagement is not a simple choice for all young people. For those people less motivated by social justice Young people can feel disengaged from learning for various arguments, it is important to note that reducing educational reasons, and this can be mild or severe...For some young people, inequalities is associated with higher national standards this is a process that they feel powerless to stop.” of educational performance, as evidenced by Wilkinson At GCSE level, although national attainment by and Pickett in “The Spirit Level” of 2009, and that ethnicity has improved since 2006-07, and the achievement enhances economic productivity, not to mention tax gap between some ethnic groups and the national average revenue. Furthermore, all politicians are concerned about has disappeared, there are still some gaps. For example, the low turnout at elections—again, people with higher 52.6% of Pakistani and 48.6% of black Caribbean educational attainment are more likely to participate in heritage pupils achieve five or more A* to C grades at voting. GCSE compared with the national level of 58%. That is a massive improvement since 2006, when the rates were So what causes those educational inequalities and 35% and 34%, respectively. During the same period, what can be done about them? The reasons for inequalities Bangladeshi pupils improved from 40% to 59.7%, and in attainment are many and varied, often interacting black African students from 40% to 57.9%. Chinese and with one another in a complex way. Evidence indicates, Indian students have performed consistently above national however, that key determinants are the education system, levels; currently, 78.5% of Chinese students and 74.4% family background and poverty. Although schools of of Indian students achieve five or more GCSEs. Travellers, poorer quality were associated with poorer educational Gypsies and Roma people are still the lowest achieving outcomes for all pupils, the 2007 report by the Centre groups, with 17.5% of Irish Travellers and 10.8% of for Analysis of Social Exclusion on understanding low those from Gypsy or Roma backgrounds achieving five achievement calculated that the major determinant was or more GCSEs including maths and English. Those living in poverty. That effect is compounded for BME inequalities are even more pronounced when looking at young people—more BME children are likely to go to those who gain the English baccalaureate. poor-quality schools. The data available on A-level attainment is limited to The particular school characteristics associated with the number of A-levels, rather than subject or grade. quality and achievement include head teacher leadership, Based on the number, the gaps in attainment are reduced school processes and school ethos, but many of those or disappear, and the proportion of BME students in characteristics are not measured. School resources are higher education has increased significantly from 13% also associated with school quality, in particular when in 1994-95 to 23% in 2008-09, broadly reflecting their pupil-teacher ratios are included, although the extent to presence in the youth population. In spite of that, which extra resources can add value has been contested—for however, 44% of all black, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and example, by Hanushek. The composition of the student Indian graduates attended post-1992 universities. body is another important factor: the poorer the socio- Shockingly, in 2009, only one black Caribbean student economic mix of students, the poorer the school quality was admitted for study at Oxford university. So although and attainment levels. In addition, a neighbourhood BME participation in higher education is increasing, effect was also identified, suggesting that although there are restrictions. Attainment also reflects earlier household income is a key determinant in educational patterns, with 66.4% of white students receiving a first- attainment, it is also influenced by wider socio-economic or second-class honours degree compared with 48.1% factors. A poor-quality neighbourhood, not providing a of BME students overall and only 37.7% of black particularly salubrious educational environment, is students. Drop-out rates were also notably higher for associated with lower educational attainment levels. black British and Asian heritage students. Another key determinant of educational attainment, I want to touch briefly on training opportunities for both at school and later, in higher education, is family young people, specifically apprenticeships. Data from background. All children do better if their parents are the Black Training and Enterprise Group has shown well educated, and if education is valued. However, an that, again, there is under-representation of BME young evidence review published in April by the Joseph Rowntree people in apprenticeships: in 2009-10, only 7% of Foundation shows that parental involvement is the most apprenticeships were taken up by young people from important characteristic, showing a strong causal BME backgrounds, although the BME population relationship with attainment levels. Parenting style and represents 14% of the working population as a whole. expectations are also important, but less strongly so. Provisional data for 2011-12 indicates that 9.2% of The effects of both household and neighbourhood poverty those beginning apprenticeships are from BME on children’s educational attainment are obvious, and backgrounds, although 16% of 16 to 24-year-olds are have been mentioned. However, analysis by Wilkinson from ethnic minority groups. The data are worse for and Pickett, comparing international data on educational completed apprenticeships. achievement from the programme for international student As policy makers advocating a fairer society, such assessment, shows that countries with high levels of data and the issues that they reflect should be one of the income inequality also have lower scores for maths and reasons why we get up in the morning—they should literacy. Fairer societies do better on a range of measures, drive us to do more, to do better. Educational attainment and educational attainment is one of them. is not only a key indicator for the jobs we will do and the incomes we will earn but, as the recent health Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab): I congratulate inequalities review undertaken by Professor Sir Michael my hon. Friend on securing the debate. I apologise for Marmot showed, a predictor for how long and how not being able to stay for all of it. She is discussing some 27WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 28WH Attainment) Attainment) [Heidi Alexander] Gypsy and Roma children, who are four times more likely to be excluded, and Black Caribbean boys, who of the factors behind differential attainment between are twice as likely to be excluded. Excluded pupils are BME and other populations. Does she agree that in four times more likely to leave school without any finding the solutions to the problem, it is critical to qualifications. The measures have been introduced despite involve parents, the school and the pupils? Indeed, that research conducted by the former Department for is what the black pupils achievement programme in Education and Skills that acknowledged that exclusion Lewisham found. When all those elements can be brought is partly due to the conscious and unconscious prejudice together, it can make a difference. of some teachers. The expansion of academies and free schools without Debbie Abrahams: I totally agree. We need to engage fully considering the potential and unintended consequences young people and parents in the solutions to the problems is another concern. Resourcing through the pupil premium associated with educational inequalities. may contribute to improvements in educational attainment The Joseph Rowntree review also considered the influence if associated with increases in the teacher-pupil ratio. of individual attitudes, aspirations and behaviour, to My right hon. Friend the Member for Tottenham see whether those are causal factors in determining (Mr Lammy) has written: attainment levels. At this stage, there is not enough “If the premium is allocated precisely according to need, it is evidence to suggest any positive association, although surprising that the area getting the largest increase in their allocation involvement in extra-curricular activities or sport showed this year is Rutland (8% of children living in poverty), while the a weak link. If we are to deal with those inequalities in smallest increase goes to the Wirral (26% of children in poverty).” educational attainment, what should we do? The most recent proposal to reintroduce GCEs and a two-tiered exam system where children are streamed at Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) 14 will only exacerbate the inequalities that already (Lab): My hon. Friend will be aware that for at least exist. Black and minority ethnic students are currently 10 years I have run a project—London Schools and the more likely to be put into lower attainment sets and, as Black Child—looking at black children and under- such, would be more likely be put into CSE streams, achievement. Although all the social issues that my thereby pigeon-holing their futures. hon. Friend raised are important, one thing is clear: one The economic and welfare policies which, according problem for black children is a culture of low expectations to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, are projected to in education. Controversial as Sir Michael Wilshaw, increase the number of children living in poverty to the chief inspector of schools, is, he showed, first at 4.2 million by 2020, should alarm everyone who wants a St Bonaventure’s and then at Mossbourne community fairer Britain. We cannot and should not let these academy in Hackney that, even if they come from children endure such hardships, but to compound that deprived backgrounds, when black children are given by failing to give them the support they need to reach high expectations, structures and limits, they can achieve. their potential at school is unforgivable. Finally, I want to make some recommendations. It is Debbie Abrahams: I would not be at all surprised important to reintroduce the ring-fenced ethnic minority about what my hon. Friend says. The review examined achievement grant; to develop teacher training to equip systematic review-level evidence. My hon. Friend’s point all teachers to teach a diverse range of students; to is valid. I am sure that a greater amount of research will explore issues around unconscious bias; to reinstate prove the causal link. targets for BME teacher recruitment; to increase research What should we be doing? I am proud that many of into the causes of differential attainment, including the improvements in BME attainment levels in the past effective independent careers advice and guidance for six years can be attributed to the interventions of the young people from BME communities; to reduce the Labour Government. The ethnic minority achievement number of exclusions of black Caribbean boys, and grant was particularly effective, for example, in meeting restore powers to exclusion appeal panels; and to ensure the needs of bilingual pupils. Disadvantage because of that the curriculum is inclusive and promotes diversity, language issues is one reason for the attainment gap in and that the call to reinstate GCEs is rejected. primary school, but that gap can be made up with specialist support. With the abolition of EMAG in April, there are concerns that that vital work will stop. 11.18 am Aiming High was another effective programme aiming Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/ to increase participation and attainment for black pupils Co-op): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, at key stage 4. Similarly, education action zones, targeting Mr Turner. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member resources to improve attainment in inner-city areas, and for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) curriculum development such as citizenship education on securing this vital debate. There has been much talk contributed to positive changes in the education system, about this subject in the media and in the report by and to increased BME attainment levels. The 900,000 Alan Milburn, and I know that the Government are reduction in the number of children living in poverty taking seriously the work on social mobility. None the achieved under Labour will also have had an impact on less, unless we deal with the issue of differential attainment, attainment levels. we will be letting down a generation of young people. Measures in the Education Act 2011 do not deal with We have a mixed story to tell. I applaud the work of disparities in attainment and could reverse the progress my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and that has been achieved. For example, the measures on Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott) for her pioneering work behaviour and discipline relating to detention, searching on this matter. Had she not been making noises about and exclusion have particular significance for Traveller, the underachievement of black boys in particular, some 29WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 30WH Attainment) Attainment) of the progress and bureaucratic changes that have been earmarked for a lower qualification is a retrograde step. made would not have taken place. I will touch on that The example I have just given of Hackney’s City academy matter in my suggestions to the Minister at the end. shows that much can be done at secondary school for Over the past week, the Secretary of State has talked pupils who may not have achieved their full potential at about changing and splitting the GCSE, which is relevant primary school. It would be a retrograde step for a to many of my constituents in Hackney. I do not cohort of teachers to expect a percentage of pupils to disagree that we need to see rigour in standards—in take a lower-grade exam. The benefit of the GCSE is Hackney, we have seen huge improvements in schools, that whatever someone’s ability, they can progress on which were achieving well below the national average the same programme of attainment, and if they work 10 or even seven years ago, but most are now achieving hard they can achieve higher than C grade. well above that, with Mossbourne academy, which my Changing the landscape massively confuses matters hon. Friend cited, achieving 84% A to C grades including for employers, who tell me that they have several issues maths and English. A number of children are going on about the qualifications that young people leave school to not just good universities but Oxbridge as well as with, and I certainly do not believe that changing them other Russell group universities. will make a difference. I am not alone in thinking that. We have done a lot in Hackney to improve standards, Lord Baker, former Secretary of State for Education, which we attribute to good heads, rigorous standards gave the Minister and the Secretary of State good and a clear framework of expectations for young people advice when he said: of all backgrounds. We accept no excuses because of “The CSE certificate which we did away with in the eighties”— poverty or ethnicity and no low expectations. In one I was one of the last pupils to sit the old GCE, which school, City academy—its principal, Mark Emmerson, shows my age, but we are talking more than 20 years is now also acting executive principal of City academy ago— Islington because of his success so far—the pupils have not sat GCSEs. He has told his staff that they should “became a valueless bit of paper. It wasn’t worth anything to the students or to the employers. That means that there has got to be see all the pupils in his highly ethnically mixed school, rigour for the other subjects at 16 as well.” which is populated mostly from the dense local council housing estates in the area, as future A* pupils, and that Lord Baker is promoting university technical colleges, that must be the teachers’ expectation. The school has as I am. I have one in my constituency, Hackney university been growing year by year, and is now in its third year. technical college, where young people will be studying Most of the pupils are a couple of terms ahead of the from the age of 14 and taking more technical qualifications expected achievement at the end of year 8, their second alongside academic qualifications, but that will not be year in secondary school. A couple of them are more seen as second best or something different, and will be than a year ahead of where they would normally be, but not instead of but as well as GCSEs. they did not necessarily come in with the highest level of I am one of the vice-chairs of the all-party group on achievement at key stage 2—level 5. Some were achieving social mobility, and in the discussions I have touched on below that. Mark Emmerson has got them back not just there is much talk about universities and getting young to where they should be, but to above that. people into university, but the issue starts much earlier. I spoke about one school, but I could spend a lot of That is one reason why I was a great champion of Sure time talking about good practice in Hackney schools. Start. The investment in children under 5, and helping Everything is not perfect, but there are good heads and their parents to parent better and to understand the good rigour, and we have seen huge investment, thanks benefits of wider education through play, is very important. to the previous Government, in new schools and good Professionals say that they can see the difference between buildings. Young people have been amazed when they children of parents who have been supported by Sure have gone into their new schools, and feel that they Start and those who have not, because the former have deserve them. They have a feeling that they have the been positively engaged with the child. We must start right to be in a good-quality environment. The schools there. operate long days, with breakfast and after-school provision. We need a raising of attainment in primary schools Another school in my constituency, Petchey academy, and a raising of ambition. That is why many Hackney gives same-day detentions, but that is seen as positive. If primary schools take pupils to universities and into the a child is falling behind, for whatever reason—they may workplace, through work programmes, to see those have been messing around in class, they may just not places for themselves. That is particularly important for understand something, or they may have difficulties at a range of young people, including some from ethnic home and bring other issues into the classroom—at the minority backgrounds, who do not have a pattern of end of the day they spend an hour focusing on that area work in their family. of under-achievement so that by the next day at school I shall touch on some of the data, which show why they are back with the rest of the class. I am sure that this issue is so important and why the Minister, who I that does not always work, but that aspiration is surely am sure is listening hard, needs to ensure that the needed. Many pupils in Hackney come from challenging Department does not take its eye off the ball. The homes, and often live in overcrowded conditions in inequality is still quite stark: we have seen some families with long periods of worklessness. I will touch improvements in Hackney, but provisional data from on some of the issues of ethnicity and language in a 2011—last year’s results—show a 6% gap in achievement moment. at GCSE level between Caribbean-heritage boys and all Returning to the Secretary of State’s comments, I do other boys and a 5% gap between the same cohort, not agree that reintroducing a two-tier system for education Caribbean girls, and all other girls. We can look at the is the answer. The idea that 25% of Hackney pupils at pattern from 2005. Due to interventions by various 11, and certainly at 13 or 14, will be pigeon-holed and schools and the Learning Trust in Hackney, we have 31WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 32WH Attainment) Attainment) [Meg Hillier] year—so it is not the same cohort, but this shows the gap that we have to bridge—51.7 % got five or more A* seen the number achieving five A* to C grade GCSEs, to C grade GCSEs, including English and maths. That including maths and English, steadily improving for is a differential of 26 percentage points. If we look at both boys and girls. It is a good story so far, but we the same figures for black boys, we see that 69% achieved should not sit back and say that that gap is acceptable. level 4 in 2011 and, in the same year—so it is not the same cohort—42% achieved five A* to C grade GCSEs. Ms Abbott: As a Hackney resident and a Hackney That is a differential of 27 percentage points. The mother, I am glad to see the very many improvements, differential is similar, but there are endemic issues, on but we need to be careful about what we say about which I and others have touched, about why certain improvements, because some of the stats go back to a groups achieve less well. period when there was the use of NVQ equivalents to I want to illustrate the importance of the point made GCSE. My concern is that although on paper the gap by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and may have narrowed, it is because some black children Saddleworth about teacher training. For about nine have been palmed off with NVQ equivalents, which do years, I was a governor, and latterly chair of governors, not in fact equip those children to compete in the at a primary school in north Islington. During that time marketplace. there was a big shortage of teachers. We had a lot of very bright, talented, young teachers, who were keen to Meg Hillier: I completely agree. Statistics can bury teach, but many of them, to put it bluntly, had never many issues, which is why the point made by my hon. seen a black face in their lives. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth about ensuring proper teacher training and support so The head teacher, who was a black woman, which that assumptions are not built in at the beginning is a was still quite unusual, and I were very concerned on a key one. I shall give a couple of examples of where I couple of occasions. On one occasion, a child was very have seen that in the past. scared about going into assembly to see African dancing. Some issues that probably do not figure on most hon. My immediate reaction was that it was terrible that a Members’ horizons, although my hon. Friend the Member child was worried about seeing something that reflected, for Hackney North and Stoke Newington and I will to a degree, their own heritage. There were a number of come across them regularly, are those to do with Turkish, issues to unpack about witchcraft and pride in their Kurdish and Cypriot children, who are still massively background, but the other teachers saw it as naughty underachieving compared with their cohort group. behaviour, because they had not come across the cultural Although there has been an improvement since 2011, issues involved. we still see a gap in attainment between Turkish, Kurdish On another occasion, they were casting for “The and Cypriot boys and girls and all other pupils of 14%. Wizard of Oz”. In the film, Dorothy is played by Judy That brings in one of the other issues—language. At Garland—a young, white girl—so presumably, that was home, many of these young people will speak only their the image in the minds of many teachers. Each class was mother tongue. That is fine. The mother tongue is very asked to do a bit of “The Wizard of Oz”, so they each important, and of course parents and mothers in particular had a witch, a Dorothy and so on. The Dorothys, when are the first educators of a child. However, if the parent they came out of the classes, were all little, white girls. is not very literate in the mother tongue, the child may The head, being from a different background, challenged not be getting the range of educational input required it, but at the time I was worried; this was a cohort of from the parent in the mother tongue. Often, the only good teachers, but teachers who did not have that adult whom many of these young people speak to in perspective, which was a real worry. We need young English is their teacher. Their exposure to the wider people in schools now not only to achieve well, but to world is sometimes a bit limited. Often, the young go on to become teachers themselves. people will be helping in the family business, which will The Under-Secretary of State for Education, the involve working with other Turkish families, for instance; hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim and in the mosque and other community groups, it will Loughton) and I were at Sebright school in my constituency, be only the mother tongue that is spoken. which is one that works with City Year kids. Through I do not want anyone to go away with the impression City Year, young people on a gap year work with pupils, that I do not think that the mother tongue is important, providing mentoring, physical training and an extra because it is very important. Actually, it is very important adult to support the students. They have found different for our young people as they go out into the world and ways to engage and are very popular with the Hackney develop their careers. Given that the Turkish economy, schools they go into. They are now moving into secondary for example, is growing by about 7% a year, speaking schools. What is good about that cohort is that the their mother tongue is a real skill and strength for groups of young people, aged between about 18 and 22, young people in Hackney. However, there is an issue coming into Hackney schools better reflect the wider and it may not hit the Minister’s radar screen because, Hackney community. They are not all from Hackney, in terms of the national population, this group is relatively but they better reflect what you might see, to put it small and focused in parts of north-east London. simply, on a Hackney bus. I take the point made by my hon. Friend the Member To a degree, there is a time lag with teacher training, for Hackney North and Stoke Newington about statistics, but the teachers in our schools do not necessarily reflect but let us look at the differences between young people the ethnic background of the pupils they teach. What when they leave primary school at 11 and when they get is the Department doing to encourage change? Are to GCSE level. In Hackney in 2011, 77% of white boys the Government being proactive? Let us be honest, we left school at key stage 2 at the end of year 6 with a do not have enough teachers from ethnic minority level 4 in English and maths. At GCSE level in the same backgrounds. Just as we have concerns that there are 33WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 34WH Attainment) Attainment) not enough male teachers in primary schools to be role As the child of immigrants who came to Britain in models, the Government need not to be shy at addressing the 1950s, I know that that generation of West Indian this issue. That brings me to my final point and immigrants knew that it would be tough, that they recommendation to the Minister. would have to work two jobs, that often they would live We used to see a quite detailed breakdown of in overcrowded conditions and that they would encounter achievement by ethnic background. I pay tribute to my racism, but they thought—as immigrants always think— hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke that for their children it would be better, and that Newington. If she had not talked about, and made it education was the means by which it would become acceptable to talk about, the difference between black better. All the challenges faced by minorities today— and white children, the Department at the time would whether about employment, policing or immigration—pale not have had the courage to produce a much more to nothing, in my view, in comparison with the betrayal granular breakdown by different ethnic groups. We of an earlier generation of immigrants who came to have gone back and shrunk to broad-brush breakdowns— Britain to better themselves and their families, and black, white, Asian and so on. That breakdown does thought that education would be the ladder for them, as not work for me, because it would not pick up Kurdish, it has been historically for immigrants all over the Turkish and Cypriot achievement, which is a big issue. world. We collect some of those data locally, but no wider Education matters because equity matters; it matters dataset is collected. because fairness matters; and it matters because justice I know that there has been nervousness about labelling matters. I throw into the debate a quote from Martin and pigeonholing pupils by ethnic background, but Narey, who is the former director of the Prison Service used properly, such information can be very helpful. It and the former head of Barnardo’s. He said years ago can be used by MPs, parents and others to challenge that on the date and time a child is permanently excluded what a school does and by good teachers and head from school, they might as well be given a date and time teachers to ensure that they focus on areas of proven to turn up in prison. The link between educational underachievement and do not contribute to it. I understand underachievement, social disorder and eventually a life that that is a detailed point, but if the Minister cannot of crime is a very clear pathway. Rather than spending comment now, will he write to me with exact reasons money on rehabilitating young people and on dealing why the Department no longer breaks down the data to with the consequences of crime, let us focus on and pay that level of granularity? Will the Department consider attention to what I believe is the root of a lot of these doing so again? Will he also pick up the point about issues—the educational underachievement of too many teacher training and attracting more young people from of our children, particularly black children, in our ethnic minorities into teacher training? schools. Post the riots last summer, people talked about the 11.34 am rioters being in gangs, about their parents, about lack of Ms Diane Abbott (Hackney North and Stoke Newington) religious leadership and about all sorts of things. People (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for did not talk about the fact that the biggest signifier Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) on when we looked at the young people who were arrested securing this important debate. and charged with incidents in the course of the riots The first thing to say is that the underachievement of was that two thirds of them—I think that was the black children is not a new issue. It goes back all the figure—had special educational needs, and the majority way to the 1950s, when children would come here from of them had been excluded from school. Those were the the Caribbean—bright and able children, who had excelled two biggest indicators. I am not saying that educational in the classroom in the Caribbean—but they suddenly underachievement is an excuse for criminality or rioting, found themselves in units for children who were but the link is there. If we are talking about a business educationally underachieving. case, the business case for making sure that all our children achieve their very best in school is unanswerable. There is a clear pattern to that underachievement. When children of African and Caribbean descent enter As colleagues will know, this is an issue that I have the school system at the age of five, they are doing as harassed Ministers about, both in my Government and well as white and Asian children. In some cases they are in this Government. On the question of the figures, I doing marginally better, because there is some medical remember going to see a brand-new Labour Schools evidence to show that black children are a little more Minister in 1997 and asking him about the figures developmentally advanced at the age of five. By the age about ethnic achievement. I will not give his name—he of 11, their achievement levels, particularly for boys, was a very nice man—but he looked at me and said, start to drop off and by the age of 16 there is a huge “Well, Diane, we have got these figures and, you know, gap. Although we—my Government—masked that gap, they seem to show that ethnic minorities are doing partly by the use of national vocational qualification better.” I said, “How can that be?” I think he had a equivalents for GCSE, it still remains startling. youth cohort study and the figures were broken down Ministers might say, “Why does this matter to us? We into white and ethnic minority, so I said, “I tell you don’t have many of these people in our constituencies? what, you tell your officials to go away and break down Maybe it’s their families. Maybe it’s them. Why should those figures between white, Asian, African and Afro- we bother?” First of all, as hon. Friends have said, it is Caribbean.” an issue of equity and justice. If it means anything to be The Minister looked at me, but he was a nice guy, so a British citizen—even in austerity and even in the times he went away and came back a few months later and that we face—it ought to mean that there is the chance said, “We have broken them down, and we find that you to make something of yourself through an educational have the whites doing how they’re doing, and the Asian system that treats people fairly. students doing better than the black students, but even 35WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 36WH Attainment) Attainment) [Ms Diane Abbott] they expect each and every child to reach their potential. There is a culture of low expectation, of saying, “Well, the black students are creeping up a little bit.” I replied, if we can make school a nice, safe place, and the “I tell you what, you go away and break down the black children come in and make samosas and bang steel student figures between boys and girls.” He came back drums, isn’t that nice?” That sort of culture masks the with what I and the black community knew, that black failure to give young people the academic equipment boys’ results were flatlining. What was happening to they need to fulfil themselves as people and to compete black boys at the end of the ’90s, and had been happening in the world of work. for decades, was masked by a failure to keep statistics. Some educationalists, some teachers and perhaps Although it seems arid and technical to ask for stats, we some Ministers might say, “Well, you know, Diane, you cannot have programmes that reach those children can’t expect schools to make good the failings of society.” effectively without a statistical basis. That is a strange thing to say because if we read the history of education in this country, the Victorians Meg Hillier: There is an emerging concern that although believed exactly that: school could make good the failures girls from certain ethnic minority backgrounds now of society. Had we said to Arnold, the first inspector of achieve well in Hackney schools at 16, and in particular schools, “Oh, you can’t expect schools to make good the at 18, and some of them even go on to university, a failings of society”, he would have said, “That’s ridiculous! number of them drop out of education after 18. Studies This is what we’re here for.” Hiding behind—I emphasise show that, and it exactly illustrates my hon. Friend’s “hiding”—real social and youth culture issues to say point about the need to track the figures and keep the that schools cannot make a difference is to take a statistics at a detailed enough level for them to be position that the Victorians would not have recognised. meaningful. One reason why it is important to keep detailed stats is that it is not sufficient to talk generally about black Ms Abbott: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. and minority children. I have worked on the subject for I also remember, a few years into that same Government, years, and in London, which is the part of the country I going to see the then Secretary of State for Education know best, the figures and outcomes are complicated. and asking for a breakdown by ethnicity of GCSE Chinese children, I think, do best in London, white girls results. She said, “Sure Diane, of course you can have do second best, then children of east African, Asian or them,” but her officials looked shifty. At that time, Indian origin and, going down the list, Bengali boys, schools were supposed to keep the figures; they just who are bumping along at the bottom with white boys were not published. Months later, I got a letter from my and black boys. Black girls always do better than black colleague, who is now in another place, saying that boys. The London stats show us differences in out-turn unfortunately the data could not be released because between Asian children from the subcontinent, Asian they were “not in a usable form”. Even if schools are children from Bengal, Asian children from east Africa, made to keep data, unless they know that the figures African children or Caribbean children, and not keeping will be made public and used, it is in their interests, detailed statistics about out-turns year on year is failing particularly those of schools that are failing our children, such children. Only when we see the differences can we to keep them in all sorts of higgledy-piggledy ways so start to identify what the issues are. that no one can drill down and see what is happening to For instance, one of the reasons why Bengali boys do the children. I cannot stress enough the importance of so badly compared with Asian boys from other examination data broken down by ethnicity, because if backgrounds is to do with rural Bengal and the conditions we do not have it we cannot reach those children that they come from. Unless we have the detailed statistics, because we do not know what is happening to them. however, we cannot identify that. One of the things I I suppose this is the appropriate point at which to have seen as the years have gone by is that first-generation raise the question of why. Why do black children fail? African children tend to do better than Caribbean That is something I have struggled with, as have academics, children. That is an interesting fact, which is worth parents and community workers. As my hon. Friend the contemplating. In my opinion—having studied this, Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth said, it is a held events and looked at the figures—the results of mix of things. It is partly to do with poverty in an first-generation African children may speak to more absolute sense, although all the research shows, particularly stable families in the African community at this point that done by the Institute of Education, that even when and a stronger sense of personal identity. Until we have we allow for poverty—usually by using free school the figures and can analyse why there are differences, we meals as an indicator—black children systematically do cannot help those children. less well than children of other ethnicities. There is no We have not spoken much about higher education, question but that poverty is an issue. Nowadays there is which the debate is not primarily about, but we cannot also increasing peer group pressure. Parents can be talk about educational underachievement without devoted to their children’s academic futures but if, as mentioning what is happening to BME children in the children reach adolescence, their cohort thinks that higher education. A case in point is London, where it is studying is not cool, that can be problematic. I have striking that universities within a few miles of each mentored the children of friends in that situation, and I other and in theory serving the same population are do not discount its significance. very different in their demographic make-up. In fact, There is also a culture of low expectation in some some of the former polytechnics in London educate schools. I am not talking about bad teachers, but about more BME young people than some of our Russell teachers who say, and have said to me, in effect, year on group universities put together. I do not accept the year, “What do you expect?” Well, let me tell Members argument, “Well, that’s because it’s all they are capable what communities in areas such as Hackney expect: of.” A lot of things are going on, such as poor advice at 37WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 38WH Attainment) Attainment) school level or poor A-level choices. There is a lot to say I have a meeting with UBS to plan this year’s awards about what is happening in higher education to BME ceremony in the autumn, which will be held in the young people. House of Commons. I want to talk about what I think the solutions are. I Meg Hillier: As my hon. Friend knows, a lot of have never doubted that part of the solution is to get interesting work has been done on that, but for me it is parents to engage. The children who come to the awards summed up by the bright young woman from Hackney ceremony are often from underachieving schools in who was offered places to read medicine at Nottingham socially deprived areas. One of the problems is that the and Cambridge universities. She turned down the place room is always packed, because they bring their mum, at Cambridge because she said that she did not think dad, aunt and gran; the children who do best are those she would fit in there. That demonstrates that it is about whose parents are most engaged in their education. It is more than the academic side; it is about the attitudes of important to get parents to engage, and that is why I universities and their welcoming of the wide population have held conferences every year. Often parents do not of this country. quite know what to do for the best. The education system is very different even from when I was at school in this country. It is important to get parents to engage, Ms Abbott: It is an interesting issue, and I hope that but it is also important that the education system should on another occasion in the House we shall have the recognise that. It is important to recruit more black opportunity to debate BME communities in higher teachers, not because only black teachers can teach education specifically. black children, which is clearly absurd—I have mentioned The issue we are debating has engaged me for many Sir Michael Wilshaw—but because, particularly in years, almost since I first entered the House, and there metropolitan areas, unless the demographic in the staff are two specific things that I have done about it. I set up room bears some relationship to that of the children an initiative called London Schools and the Black Child. who are being taught, there is unlikely to be the overall Over a decade we have had annual conferences at which cultural literacy that will help teachers to engage with we brought together parents, community leaders and the children. It is also important, for all working-class teachers, not to say, “Oh, the system is terrible and these boys, to recruit more male teachers. I deal with boys in teachers are terrible,” but to ask what we could do to Hackney—black, white, Asian, Turkish—who throughout help our children. The heart of those conferences—officials their education have engaged only with women and can tell Ministers about them, if they look through the have never seen a man as an educational role model. files—were workshops, where parents dealt with issues More male teachers are important. Teacher training is such as how to cope with exclusions, how to help black also important so that teachers have cultural literacy. boys to achieve, and how to help children to achieve In closing, I will mention a subject on which I could higher standards. talk for an entire hour and a half, because I have spent a lot of time on it in my life as a Member of Parliament. I The extraordinary thing about the conferences was had to have this debate with Labour Ministers: it is not that every year more than 1,000 parents would turn up. good enough to adopt a colour-blind approach. With a We held them at the Queen Elizabeth II conference colour-blind approach, ethnic minority children continue centre just across the way. The first one was due to start to slip under the radar and are palmed off with substandard at 10 o’clock, and at 9 o’clock we had people queuing qualifications, education and life chances. A colour-blind outside the door. Parents really want to help their approach will not work. Comprehensive statistics are children. There is an assumption that perhaps black vital, as is recognising the importance of parents. children do badly because the black community does not value education. No. If I only ever say one thing in I must mention the institution of Saturday schools. this House let it be that the black community does value For 20-odd years, Saturday schools have been run on a education. That is why it is so important to me to keep voluntary basis by the black community in London and making the case for focusing and having practical strategies. other big cities. The same children of whom teachers in their mainstream school say, “Oh, what do you expect? The other thing that I have done, with the support of We can’t get them to sit down,” go to a Saturday school, UBS, the international financial services company and get their heads down and do their work. That is partly bank, is to run an awards ceremony for London’s top due to parental involvement. achieving black children. One is always trying to counter We need statistics, recruitment of black and male stereotypes. The Minister might be surprised to know teachers and teacher training, but above all we need to that there are black children at inner-city schools turning recognise that the issue is easy to ignore or to utter out 10 or 11 A* grades and four As at A-level, and pieties about. If we abandon a cross-section of the going on to study medicine or law at Russell group community in our inner cities, they have a way of universities. One year, we got Lenny Henry and the bringing themselves back into the political narrative—a newscaster Trevor McDonald to hand out the awards, way that is not good for them or for society. Better and we rang the Evening Standard and said, “We are people than me have worked on the issue over their having this awards ceremony—London’s top achieving lifetime. I implore the Minister: let us not lose the black children; would you be prepared to cover it?” advances made under the Labour Government. Let us They asked, “Are any of the children gang members?” continue to move forward. In other words, unless those children fit a stereotype they do not get coverage. We can open a London newspaper any day and see gang atrocities, stabbings 11.57 am and shootings. We do not hear enough about the children, Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I congratulate of all ethnicities, who are achieving, and trying their my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and very best. I thank UBS for its support. After the debate, Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) on securing this debate. 39WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 40WH Attainment) Attainment) [Kevin Brennan] choices may lead to closing off opportunities at a later stage. I do not, however, support the crude mechanism I welcome the debate, and the tone so far. It is correct to of the E-bac, because I do not think that it is the way point out at the outset, as other hon. Members have forward for qualifications at 16, and it will not necessarily done, that the title of the debate deals with educational mean that people will opt for those subjects that it is in attainment in black and minority ethnic communities. their interests to take. There should be a clear understanding High attainment is found in all black and minority of the implications of choices made at 16. We should ethnic communities, and, as other Members have retain high expectations for young people in their GCSEs, highlighted, some minority ethnic communities seem to particularly in English and maths, but also allow them be doing particularly well. We should all be as interested the opportunity to make informed choices about the in why that is the case as in why pupils in other communities subjects that they want to take. are not doing so well. Why some communities do well I want to address a number of points made by my should be of great interest to us. hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and Stoke My hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Newington (Ms Abbott). She is right to emphasise that Saddleworth presented a thoroughly researched and this is not a new issue. Indeed, she has been making that well-argued speech, obviously born out of a desire to do point for the 25 years she has been a Member of this something about an issue that she has encountered in House, which she entered in 1987. It is only right that her role as a constituency MP. She is to be commended we pay tribute to her efforts on the subject, including for bringing to the House an issue that she has discovered her practical efforts in relation to the initiative that she in her constituency in order to highlight the need to do mentioned in her speech. something about it. She emphasised the need for a My hon. Friend and I debated the issue when I was a well-rounded approach to educational attainment and Minister in the Department for Children, Schools and mentioned, as did other hon. Members, the importance Families in 2008 and I can confirm that she is passionate of parental inclusion. She also pointed out the abolition about the subject and has a lot to say. As I recall, she of the ethnic minority achievement grant, which I may took 26 of the 30 minutes that we had to debate the comment on later. I congratulate her on her remarks. issue and I did my best to respond in the remaining time My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney South and available. She was quite right, however, because she had Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) made an excellent speech, also a lot to say on the subject. She was right to emphasise born out of her constituency experience. She emphasised, its importance and to take me to task, as a Minister, on as we all should, the importance of rigour and standards the subject, as she had previous Labour Ministers and in our schools, saying how much had been done, particularly as I am sure she will continue to do to coalition Ministers. in her borough of Hackney, through effective leadership It is important to hold our feet to the fire and make sure in our schools. That is a key part of high achievement, that our attention is maintained. That applies not just as is having no excuses or not accepting low expectations to those of us on the Opposition Benches, but, more in our schools. importantly, given that the Minister is in government, In recent years, there has been real improvement in to those who hold the levers of policy in the Department achievement and attainment in our schools, particularly for Education. My hon. Friend was also right to mention in our London schools through measures such as London the need for detailed data, which I will return to in a Challenge. That was acknowledged recently on television moment. by the Mayor of London, who said that huge improvements When we debated this topic in 2008, my hon. Friend in standards had been made in London schools in made a number of points that caught my attention, one recent years. He was absolutely right to highlight that, of which was that research by the former Department but, as other Members have mentioned, that may well of Education and Skills confirmed: mask some of the underlying problems in relation to black and minority ethnic communities. “Black Caribbean pupils are significantly more likely to be permanently excluded—3 times more likely than White pupils.” [HYWEL WILLIAMS in the Chair] However, as my hon. Friend has said today, and as she My hon. Friend mentioned the importance of work said in 2008: on exclusion, which I will say more about in a moment. She was also strong in her opposition to introducing “In relation to base-line entry tests, black pupils outperform any kind of two-tier qualification system, which she their white peers at the start of school”. called a retrograde step. We will debate that issue on the We need to understand what is going on. Floor of the House later today, so I am sure that the My hon. Friend went on to emphasise the importance Minister will understand why I do not want to go into it of teacher training, pointing out that only 35% of in detail now. newly qualified teachers “rated their course as good for preparing them to teach black Ms Abbott: My hon. Friend has mentioned one of children, as opposed to 60 per cent. who rated their course as the Secretary of State’s innovations, which we will debate good preparation for teaching children of all abilities.” —[Official later today. Does he agree that the principle behind the Report, 1 April 2008; Vol. 474, c. 223, 224WH.] English baccalaureate—that every child should get certain That is still a significant issue that we all need to core GCSE qualifications—is a good one and that it consider and that the Minister must not lose sight of in would help avoid a situation in which too many children his reform of teacher training. are damaged by a culture of poor expectations? My hon. Friend talked about exclusion, which absolutely Kevin Brennan: I agree that it is extremely important needs to be tackled. When we were in Government, we that every young person and child should understand started to look at that subject in more detail and in the implications of the pathways that they choose at greater depth than Ministers had at the start of the GCSE. It is important that they understand that certain Labour Government in 1997, when my hon. Friend had 41WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 42WH Attainment) Attainment) a meeting with Education Ministers. In 2007, the think the reduction in lifetime earnings as a result of Department published a priority review entitled “Getting exclusion was calculated at £36,000. Worse than that, it, getting it right” on the exclusion of black pupils. It 80% of the juveniles in prison had been excluded from discussed the iconic status of the issue of exclusion in school at one time or another. That statistic made me sit black communities. Black Caribbean parents in particular up at the time, and should make the Minister focus on believed that the school system would not meet the the issue. If 80% of juveniles in prison have been needs of their children unless something was done excluded from school, that must tell us something about about the disproportionate level of exclusion of pupils exclusion and whether it is effective in trying to change from that particular background. It was extremely the sort of behavioural problems that probably led to important that that report was undertaken at that time, exclusion in the first place. If that exclusion has a racial and I would be interested to hear from the Minister component, we should be significantly concerned. about what the Government are doing now to follow up on that issue in relation to the exclusion of black and Meg Hillier: I would always defend a head teacher’s minority ethnic pupils. It was a priority of the previous right to manage their school, and clearly exclusion may Government to try to do something about that, even have a place in that, but a concern that I came across though they accepted that it was a complex and difficult recently is a child who was excluded but brought back issue. We undertook a number of initiatives that were into school with intense provision for a short period. specifically designed to tackle the issue of exclusion. That intense provision was for only half a day, so the Another matter that was raised in the debate was the working parent was left with half a day to try to cover, expectations of teachers. As long ago as 2003, the and it also took the child out of their normal environment. London Development Agency undertook major research Has my hon. Friend given any thought to how that that showed, among other things, that many teachers might have an effect on the outlook of that young had lower expectations of black pupils and that black person when they re-enter the school? pupils felt that they received less positive input and, in some cases, even discrimination from teachers in the Kevin Brennan: For many years, the scandal was that course of their school lives. Under the Race Relations excluded pupils received little or no education after they (Amendment) Act 2000, schools have a duty to ensure had been excluded. My point is that exclusion should be that they deal with this issue. A significant amount of a last resort, and it is sometimes necessary. As a former literature for schools has been published by the Department teacher, I absolutely defend the right of schools to and, in the past, by the Commission for Racial Equality exclude, having followed due and proper process. The on the subject. One report found that a significant Government have reformed that process, and changed minority of schools were failing to implement their the way in which an appeal can be made against exclusion. duties under the race relations legislation. Given that Instead of insisting on reinstatement, they have introduced we now have a more fragmented system of education in fines on schools and head teachers who refuse reinstatement which a number of schools are no longer run as community after that has been recommended on appeal. schools in a local authority system but have become I do not want to go into the details of that, but I want academies, independent of any local accountability, to make the point that responsibility for that child does how will the Department ensure that such schools fulfil not end when they are excluded, and that includes a their obligations under race relations legislation in relation responsibility on the head teacher and the school that to black pupils? excluded the child, on other schools in the area, even if they are independent academy schools in the state sector, Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I am and on all of us who are interested in education. sorry to have missed part of the debate, but I am pleased Responsibility for that child does not end at the point of that it is taking place this morning. Does my hon. exclusion. One reason why so many young people end Friend agree that that is a particular concern now given up in the juvenile justice system is not that they are that the Government intend to repeal the good relations inherently bad, but that, at the point of exclusion, there duty on the Equality and Human Rights Commission, is no proper follow-up to ensure that the child receives which is of course the institutional framework by which an education, let alone attempts made to try to prevent this kind of mechanism can be applied? exclusion in the first place whenever possible, given that it should always and everywhere be a last resort. Kevin Brennan: Yes. My hon. Friend speaks with a My hon. Friend the Member for Hackney North and great deal of expertise on this subject. We are all concerned Stoke Newington said that improvement in GCSE that a lot of very good work on equality could be achievement might have been due partially to the use of undone—perhaps not in a deliberate sense—by Ministers equivalencies at GCSE, but I think the facts will show who desire to follow their own path and ensure that that even if that were taken out of the equation, the they distinguish themselves from the previous Government improvement in London schools in recent years is real, in their approach to education and schools. They could as the Mayor of London said. In fact, results for black be undoing very good work and taking a significant Caribbean pupils were rising at a faster rate than those step backwards in relation to the education system and for many other groups, but that does not mean that the topic that we are debating today. there is not a real and continuing problem, and my hon. My hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Friend was right to highlight that. Saddleworth talked about the impact of exclusion on My hon. Friend also spoke about the need for detailed people’s lives and about the fact that the Department data, and I appeal to the Minister that in his wish to itself had calculated that there would be a significant unburden schools of bureaucracy, which is laudable, he loss of earnings for pupils who were excluded in the does not fail to collect the data that are essential to course of their lifetime. At the time of that study, I tackle issues such as this. The Government are keen on 43WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 44WH Attainment) Attainment) [Kevin Brennan] cohort at GCSE level. For girls, it was 5%. The hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Newington having masses of data available in other areas, and that (Ms Abbott) pointed out that when black children enter is good because it enables people to trawl through and primary school at the age of five, they are doing as well analyse it, and to get to the root of a problem, but in as, and in certain circumstances better than, their peers this matter, less data are likely to be collected and that attending the same primary school, but by the age of would be a significant mistake. 11, achievement starts to drop off, and by 16 there are I have a few questions for the Minister before concluding real attainment gaps for that group of children. I agree and giving him time to respond. In tackling the problem, with her that this does matter—it is a matter of social how will ending the ethnic minority achievement grant justice and fairness. She is right to have devoted so help? How will introducing a two-tier qualifications much of her life to trying to tackle these issues and raise system, if that is indeed what he intends, help to improve awareness of them. I join the hon. Member for Cardiff black and ethnic minority attainment? How will not West (Kevin Brennan) in paying tribute to her for the collecting proper statistics help? How will abandoning work that she has carried out over three decades in the approach of Every Child Matters help? Obviously, seeking to address the issue of higher educational standards educational achievement is partially a case of good for BME children in general, and black boys in particular. leadership in schools and so on, but it does involve The hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke wider issues, which many of these children may be Newington is right to say that the focus must be on bringing to school with them and which need to be raising educational achievement for black children, and tackled. How will a fragmented approach to exclusions children from groups that historically have underperformed help to tackle this problem? I would be grateful to hear educationally. She is right to point to the importance of the Minister’s response to those questions. data and making the data available. That is something that we are doing. We have put increasing amounts of 12.15 pm educational attainment data in the performance tables. Those are broken down by free school meals, by low The Minister of State, Department for Education prior attainment and by high prior attainment. The (Mr Nick Gibb): I start by congratulating the hon. underlying data are also available. They break down Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie achievement by different ethnic and minority groups. Abrahams) on securing this debate on an issue of We intend to put ever more data on the website over enormous importance—tackling the differences in time, so that they are available to the public, and to attainment among certain groups of pupils. academics who want to drill down further than the The overarching objective of the Government’s education general public. policy is to close the attainment gap between those from wealthier and poorer backgrounds, between girls and Attainment gaps are a complex issue. BME pupils’ boys and between those from different ethnic minorities. underperformance may be due to a combination of As hon. Members have already argued, the gap in factors, including financial deprivation, low parental attainment between black and minority ethnic pupils literacy levels and aspirations for children’s academic and other pupils is too wide, and has been too wide for achievement, poor attendance and bullying. too long. The hon. Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth Ms Abbott: The Minister mentions low literacy pointed to the educational attainment gap between levels among parents as a reason for educational BME students and their peers. She pointed to the high underachievement. Let me tell me him that many parents levels of unemployment among black men. It is 55.5% with whom my hon. Friend the Member for Hackney in the 16-to-24 age group. She pointed to the fact that South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) and I work would young Indian people are more likely to be unemployed resent that inference. than their white peers, despite being in one of the highest-performing ethnic groups educationally. Mr Gibb: I take the hon. Lady’s point. I am making a The hon. Lady pointed to the high degree of variation general point about the issue of underperforming groups in the educational achievements of different ethnic groups. in society. The range of causes is complex, and one of She pointed to the poor attainment levels of Gypsy, them can be—it is not always—literacy among parents Roma and Traveller pupils. For example, in 2011, 25% generally. of Gypsy, Roma and Traveller pupils achieved level 4 or Particular combinations of pupil characteristics can above in English and maths at the end of primary indicate that a child is especially vulnerable. Currently, education, compared with 74% of all pupils. That is one white or black Caribbean boys eligible for free school of the largest attainment gaps for any minority ethnic meals are among those making the slowest progress. group. At key stage 4 in 2011, 12% of GRT pupils Gypsy, Roma and Traveller children significantly achieved five or more good GCSEs including English underperform. Many of the lowest-achieving free school and maths, compared with 58.2 % of all pupils. We have meal pupils also have a special educational need, and established a ministerial working group on tackling the therefore face an even steeper struggle to succeed. inequalities experienced by Gypsies and Travellers. We Nationally, in 2011, 58.2% of pupils gained five or are taking action, including by piloting a virtual head more GCSEs, including English and maths, but the teacher for GRT pupils, looking again at the impact of attainment levels of black and minority ethnic groups legislation with regard to not prosecuting families for were lower. Some 52.6% of children of Pakistani origin non-attendance at school, and so on. obtained five or more GCSEs at grades A* to C, including The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch in English and maths, while 54.3% of black pupils, (Meg Hillier) pointed to the attainment gap of 6% including those of African and Caribbean background, between Caribbean-heritage boys and the rest of the attained the same GCSE results. The figures show that 45WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 BME Communities (Educational 46WH Attainment) Attainment) some attainment gaps have narrowed in recent years, as have funds to support underperforming minority ethnic hon. Members have mentioned. For example, attainment pupils, and to contribute to the additional costs of levels for pupils of Pakistani origin have improved at a supporting pupils with English as an additional language. greater rate, narrowing the gap from 12 to six percentage points since 2006. Debbie Abrahams: Does the Minister accept that as Narrowing the gap between those from wealthier and schools are under severe financial pressure at the moment, poorer backgrounds is key to raising attainment levels the funds might not be targeted specifically at reducing among those black and minority ethnic groups with the inequalities in attainment for which they were originally higher than average levels of deprivation. For example, intended? 30% of key stage 4 students of Pakistani origin were eligible for free school meals in 2011, compared with 14% of all key stage 4 pupils. Mr Gibb: I accept that that is always a risk, but our philosophy is to trust the professionals to make the Our policy is to improve reading in primary schools decisions, and not have decisions always taken in Whitehall through systematic synthetic phonics and the new draft that direct head teachers, who are experienced professionals, primary curriculum for English, with its focus on rigour on how to spend their budgets. The funding of £201 million and ensuring that children become fluent readers and is in the dedicated schools grant to address such issues. develop a long-lasting love of reading, as well as being taught the rules of English grammar. That is key to This country performs poorly in helping young people closing the attainment gap, as are our other programmes to overcome their socio-economic backgrounds. The of study for maths and science. OECD recently reported that just 24% of disadvantaged students are able to overcome their backgrounds and The academies and free schools programmes are achieve as well as their peers academically. That is designed to raise standards in schools throughout the compared with 76% in Shanghai, 72% in Hong Kong system, particularly in areas of deprivation. Similarly, and 46% in Finland, which puts the UK 39th out of the new floor standards for primary and secondary 65 OECD countries in terms of what it calls the schools and the new focused Ofsted inspection framework “educational resilience” of children from poorer are designed to raise academic standards in the least backgrounds. well-performing schools. The pupil premium will direct In this country, however, there are many schools £600 of extra school funding to each pupil eligible for where pupils of all backgrounds succeed. In Challney free school meals, giving schools the resources to tackle high school for boys and community college in Luton, all the challenges that they undoubtedly face in overcoming for example, 29% of pupils are in receipt of free school disadvantage. meals, and 61% are of Pakistani origin and 11% of The hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke Bangladeshi origin. It saw 77% of its students achieve Newington is right that schools must not hide behind five good GCSEs, including English and maths. The social difficulties as a reason for poor educational national attainment figure is 58.2%. In Valentines high attainment. That is one reason for the pupil premium. It school in Redbridge, 19% of pupils are in receipt of free is a challenge: “Here are the resources to deliver high school meals, and 24% are of Pakistani origin and 10% attainment, so there can be no reason for not delivering.” of Bangladeshi origin. It saw 76% of its students achieve Total funding for the premium was £625 million last five good GCSEs, including English and maths. The year. It will be £1.25 billion this year, rising to £2.5 billion question we must ask is this: if such schools are able to a year by 2014-15. In 2012-13, coverage of the pupil achieve those results and that standard of education for premium is being extended to include pupils who have their pupils, why not all schools? been eligible for free school meals at any point in the As the hon. Member for Hackney North and Stoke last six years, extending the premium from 1.2 million Newington pointed out, black children sometimes have pupils to about 1.7 million. The Deputy Prime Minister a culture of low expectation. When Sir Michael Wilshaw also recently announced an additional £10 million for was head at St Bonaventure’s and at Mossbourne the education endowment fund to support projects community academy, however, he transformed the aimed at transition and literacy catch-up for disadvantaged educational achievement of the youngsters with a pupils who did not achieve level 4 at key stage 2 in combination of high expectations and strong limits and English at the end of primary school. boundaries on behaviour. The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch cited Mossbourne community The hon. Members for Oldham East and Saddleworth academy and its very high academic achievement. It and for Cardiff West raised the issue of the ethnic saw 84% of pupils achieve five or more GCSEs at A* minority achievement grant. Raising the attainment of to C and nine pupils offered places at Oxbridge last children from minority ethnic communities remains a year, despite high levels of deprivation in that part of key priority for the coalition Government, but we believe Hackney and a very high proportion of pupils with that head teachers understand the particular needs of English as an additional language. their schools and are best placed to decide for themselves how that money should be spent. That is why, as part of The hon. Lady pointed to City academy, and the high our school funding settlement for 2011-12, we decided academic achievement of pupils who had low attainment to simplify the funding system by mainstreaming some prior to coming to the school. She said that good heads grants, including the ethnic minority achievement grant, and good rigour are key, and I certainly agree. She also into the dedicated schools grant. Although the EMAG pointed to the exemplar behaviour policy at the Petchey will not continue as a separate ring-fenced grant, we are academy in Hackney, which brings me to school attendance maintaining last year’s funding levels during 2012-13 at and how regular attendance is key to raising academic just over £201 million. That means that schools still standards. 47WH BME Communities (Educational 26 JUNE 2012 48WH Attainment) [Mr Gibb] Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) Absence rates for some BME groups are higher than 12.30 pm the national average. The absence rate of children of Pakistani origin is 6.7%, but the national average is Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): Once again, it is a 5.8%. Nationally, over 54 million school days were lost pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Williams. in 2010-11 due to absence. A pupil missing about nine— I am grateful to have the opportunity to raise the issue of improving rail-air connectivity for London and the Hywel Williams (in the Chair): Order. south-east. As a successful trading nation, we rely on aviation, and our commerce relies on connectivity. In the brief time that I have, I want to concentrate on the importance of air-rail connectivity for the world’s busiest two-terminal, one-runway airport. The Government’s economic strategy rightly wants to see improved links with emerging markets. UK businesses trade 20 times as much with countries where there are daily flights than with those with less frequent or no direct services. Ministers correctly want to boost growth through increasing inward investment and boosting exports. Improved international connectivity is therefore critical. Gatwick airport’s recent investment programme has made it a credible competitor to London Heathrow airport. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister was quite correct when he recently said that, under new ownership, Gatwick is emerging as a business airport for London, competing with Heathrow. The airport has recently invested £1.2 billion in facilities. In April, it announced proposals to invest a further £1 billion from 2014 to 2019. All of the money is going into making Gatwick a better, not a bigger, airport. Today, Heathrow, the UK’s largest and major hub airport is effectively full. Whether further capacity should be provided is a debate for another day. However, Gatwick is not full. At times of peak demand, such as in August, there are constraints, but, averaged out over the year, Gatwick currently operates at approximately 78% of capacity. There is potential for a further 11 million passengers to use Gatwick every year—a 25% increase on today’s levels, and a new runway is not needed to accommodate such numbers. If Gatwick has airport capacity that can be used, the question becomes how do we best utilise that. There is no doubt that Gatwick faces a competitive disadvantage in taking on Heathrow to deliver this connectivity. Gatwick is not a “hub” airport. In pure economic terms, “hub” airports are more attractive to airlines than point-to-point airports. Although, under current market and capacity conditions, Gatwick could not become a “hub”, it is competing, and it is serving routes that are traditionally the preserve of Heathrow. It is at best simplistic, and at worst fundamentally inaccurate, to suggest that because Heathrow is full, there is no alternative in terms of enhancing the UK’s international connectivity to emerging markets. Surface transport links are key to airline choice and can encourage full use of existing capacity. At present, Gatwick is engaging directly with Governments and national carriers in emerging markets, and asking them what it will take for new routes to the UK to be established. They hear time and again that airlines want to come to London, and that their choice of airports rests on available capacity, suitable facilities and, crucially, the airports’ surface connectivity to London. If we want new international air links to the emerging markets, good rail access to the airports that can provide them is critical. 49WH Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East)26 JUNE 2012 Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) 50WH

The UK national infrastructure plan rightly recognises Over the past few years, Gatwick has lost direct links the national role that London’s airports have in increasing to Oxford, Birmingham, Manchester, Watford and Kent economic output and in enabling business to access new and, importantly, due to decisions taken by the previous and larger markets. Indeed the NIP has identified Gatwick’s Government, the Gatwick Express is now under threat. current £1.2 billion capital investment programme as On-board ticketing has been discontinued, and 25-year-old one of the country’s top 40 infrastructure projects. It carriages have replaced new ones. also outlines that the Government will “improve road and rail links to the UK’s international gateways Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con): I congratulate to help maximise the efficiency and competitiveness of the whole my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. He transport network.” has highlighted the important point that the rolling stock A £53 million upgrade of Gatwick rail station is already that is now used on the Gatwick Express is inadequate under way. It will deliver much needed additional platform for airport passengers because there is insufficient luggage capacity, concourse improvements and local track and space, and wheelchair access is difficult. The irony is signal infrastructure. that that stock has replaced purpose-built stock, which has been cascaded elsewhere on the network. I urge my The focus now is on the services that run in and out hon. Friend to impress on the Government that when of Gatwick station. Gatwick is already the home of the we argue for the Gatwick Express to be a dedicated busiest airport railway station in the UK with more franchise or part of a broader franchise, there should be than 10 million passengers every year, and proportionally flexibility to have appropriate rolling stock to make it more people travel by rail to and from the airport than an attractive airport link. any other major UK airport. There is already a substantial growth in forecast demand. Along with Gatwick’s substantive growth, the number of ordinary commuters Henry Smith: My hon. Friend raises an erudite point. who use the same rail links is forecast to grow by 29% It is incredible that purpose-built rolling stock for the by 2026. The Brighton main line, which is effectively Gatwick express is now elsewhere on the network and Gatwick’s main rail artery, is near capacity, and peak that, as he rightly points out, unsuitable carriages are services on the line were already at almost 80% back in used. The matter is even worse because the Gatwick 2009. Express starts many of its journeys in Brighton, and by the time those carriages have reached Gatwick station, The new Thameslink project will help the airport. particularly at peak times, they are already full, and Already, it is quicker to get to the City of London from arriving air passengers cannot get a seat on what is Gatwick than from Heathrow. The airport should see a supposed to be a dedicated service to London. Additionally, doubling in train frequency from 2018 through Thameslink, Network Rail is proposing a further stop for the Gatwick and someone living in, for example, Peterborough or Express at Clapham Junction, which would be a retrograde Cambridge will be able to go directly to Gatwick by rail step. It would threaten Gatwick’s ability to compete for the first time. It is partly due to this Government’s with Heathrow, and because of that, reduce its potential decision to progress the Thameslink upgrade project for growth. that we will see clear improvements in north-south links to and from the airport. However, further improvements Passengers are noticing the trend. Already, the Gatwick are necessary. Express ranks below its equivalents at Heathrow and Stansted, and is at the bottom of comparative league A consistent implication from Ministers has been tables for other services, behind airports such as Heathrow, that the welcome improvements that Thameslink will Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur and Stockholm. Gatwick bring are sufficient to deliver the improved rail connectivity is not effectively connected to locations to the east and and capacity that Gatwick will need in future. In my west of the airport either, with no direct rail service to view, a far more holistic approach to improvement and from Kent. Trains have to go via London, meaning needs to be taken and, in particular, one that takes into that the 2 million passengers from Kent who use the account just how central high-quality express services airport every year cannot reach it directly. from Gatwick to London Victoria are to the airport’s growth. The new Southern-Thameslink franchise must deliver improvements to the Gatwick Express. In December 2009, the Government announced that they were inviting Zac Goldsmith (Richmond Park) (Con): I congratulate tenders for new franchises for the south-east region my hon. Friend on securing this important debate. from 2015. The new service will integrate those currently Does he agree that many of his arguments relating to operated by First Capital Connect and Southern, including Gatwick also apply to airports such as Stansted, which the Gatwick Express. From 2015, nearly all rail links in have masses of spare capacity and many millions of and out of Gatwick will be operated by one company, unused passenger journeys, but which, like Gatwick, with the exception of a direct link to Reading. We suffer from very poor transport links, and that, if they currently have the unique opportunity to address many were improved, they would transform an unattractive of the issues. airport into a very attractive one and a potential alternative Preserving the Gatwick Express is a priority. It should business hub? be recreated as an all-day, dedicated service between Gatwick and London, to support Gatwick’s role as a Henry Smith: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his key economic driver for London, the south-east and the intervention. I apologise if my contribution seems a UK economy as a whole. To guarantee its success, little parochial in its concentration on Gatwick, but the bidders for the franchise should be required to outline a points relating to Gatwick are replicated for other airports, vision of how both the quality of the journey and the not just in London and the south-east, but around the range of direct routes to and from Gatwick can be country. improved. In addition to the invitation to tender for the 51WH Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East)26 JUNE 2012 Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) 52WH

[Henry Smith] 12.44 pm The Minister of State, Department for Transport new franchise including direct express rail services to (Mrs Theresa Villiers): I congratulate my hon. Friend London from the airport, there must also be a clear the Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) on securing a requirement for fit-for-purpose rolling stock that caters debate on such an important and interesting topic. He for the needs of air passengers—so ably pointed out by is a great advocate for his constituents, and I welcome my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South his expertise in and understanding of aviation issues, (Iain Stewart)—as it is clear from Gatwick’s research which I am sure are of great importance to many of his that the current stock is not. Gatwick is particularly constituents who work at Gatwick airport. concerned about the installation of ticket gates at the airport railway station and the removal of on-board I fully appreciate all the points that my hon. Friend ticketing adversely affecting passenger experiences. made about the importance of high-quality rail services to airports, and particularly to Gatwick, which is one of In the long term, the requirements in the recent rail our biggest and most successful airports. I echo his Command Paper need to be implemented. The paper praise of and congratulations to Gatwick on its investment states that during the next regulatory cycle Network programme, and I welcome the new services that it is Rail and the broader rail industry should look at how attracting, including Air China’s new service from Gatwick best to improve surface access to major airports. Network to Beijing. Gatwick well deserved the praise that it Rail should, as part of its development of the south-east’s received from the Prime Minister to which my hon. rail network, take advantage of the new capacity that Friend referred. the Thameslink programme will provide from 2018, to It is entirely correct to say that the debate about reorganise the way in which lines running though Gatwick aviation connectivity in this country is not just about are used. Gatwick’s plans for long-term infrastructure Heathrow. Heathrow is an extremely important airport, improvements deliver a win-win solution for commuters but we should not forget that London’s five successful and air passengers alike. The line that supports Gatwick’s airports together make us one of the best connected direct rail links into London is important for both air countries in the world, and Gatwick plays a very important passengers and local commuters, and the airport is not role in that system. suggesting that the needs of the airport outweigh those High-quality surface access to our key airports is of the everyday user. important for air passengers and for our international I note that the Office of Rail Regulation has projected economic competitiveness, as my hon. Friend rightly that, independently of air travel, passenger numbers on highlighted. In addition, improving rail services to airports the main line running in and out of Gatwick could grow can provide important assistance in addressing local by 29% by 2026. The office believes that Gatwick airport’s road congestion problems and, in certain places, in technical proposal would allow for the needs of both dealing with air quality problems. As he said, one of the sets of users. This is not an either/or choice for the Government’s strategic priorities for the nation’s rail Government, but a solution for all. network is improving rail links to major ports and airports. The plans that Gatwick has published support the A significant programme of rail infrastructure growth of the airport and help to ensure a better improvements is under way, and a number of the projects experience for the ordinary commuter using the same will benefit airports. If time permits, I shall deal with rail links. They provide adequate capacity for the projected those later, but first it would be best for me to address growth of both sets of users, and help to deliver the some my hon. Friend’s points that were specific to connectivity that the national economy needs. In essence, Gatwick. they meet the needs of most user groups, and the We have recently started consulting on the new combined interests that Ministers should consider. Southern, Thameslink and Great Northern franchise. All the responses to that consultation will be shared There would be substantial benefit to the Treasury, with the five shortlisted bidders that will compete to too, because air-rail users pay a premium. Gatwick become the next operator. The consultation is an important Express users reduce Government subsidies by £27 million part of the decision-making process on what goes into every year, lessening the burden on the taxpayer. More the new franchise. This debate is therefore very timely, users would mean less taxpayer money being spent on and I encourage my hon. Friend and his constituents to the network, and keeping the service as a non-stop one take part in the consultation. would allow a further £6 million to be saved by reducing journey times. The task that the bidders for the new franchise face in balancing the competing priorities of those who use the Direct rail links to Gatwick would help to improve Brighton main line, which serves Gatwick, will not be the environment for inward investment in the south-east, easy—there is no getting away from that fact. Along because 51% of potential investors cite international with much of the nation’s rail network, the line is a transport links as an important factor in deciding where tribute to the engineering excellence of our Victorian to locate. Easy rail access to airports means better links forebears. Driving tunnels through the downs and building to key export markets. In the short term, Gatwick’s a nine-track viaduct over the River Thames are the sort proposals would greatly assist the airport in marketing of engineering projects that we take for granted today, itself internationally to airlines operating from emerging but they were a massive challenge when they were built markets, because a high-quality, dedicated rail link is more than 150 years ago, largely using only manual key in their decision-making process. In that way, improved labour and sheer hard graft. rail links would help efforts better to manage the capacity Brilliant as those Victorian engineers were, however, shortages that airports in the south-east face, and which they bequeathed us a railway that had only 19 platforms have the potential to hamper our economy. at Victoria, and only five tracks south of East Croydon. 53WH Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East)26 JUNE 2012 Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) 54WH

Since Victorian times, commuting demand has increased Through the regional growth fund, we have awarded dramatically. In a typical weekday morning, the Gatwick £19.5 million to Luton borough council for junction Express carries more than 2,000 passengers from Gatwick enhancements that will improve access from the M1 to airport into London, but there are more than Luton. The RGF has also awarded £40 million to Kent 35,000 Brighton mainline commuters, and approximately county council for its Expansion East Kent programme, the same number again commuting into London on which includes rail improvements affecting journey times Southern’s services from the inner suburbs. Expanding between Ashford and Ramsgate that could support the our inherited railway network is neither low-cost nor further development of Manston airport as a passenger easy, especially where it runs through our crowded airport. In the north of England, Manchester airport is cities, so we will expect the bidders to think hard about getting linked up to Metrolink for the first time, and how they can make best use of the track capacity funding has been secured for a new airport link road available to them in such a way that they can continue connecting the M56 and the A6. Looking ahead, to provide a high-quality service to those travelling to Manchester airport is also set to benefit from our and from Gatwick, without compromising their ability programme of rail electrification in the north of England to meet the needs of the thousands of commuters who and from the work on elements of the northern hub also use the line every year. that we are committed to delivering. Against that background, there is certainly some As my hon. Friend the Member for Crawley rightly pressure for more trains to call at Clapham Junction, pointed out, the Thameslink programme, which took which is one of the busiest stations on the route and some years to get started under the previous arguably one of the busiest in the world. My hon. Government—they started out calling it Thameslink Friend will appreciate, however, that although that proposal 2000, but for some reason dropped that title as delivery was included by Network Rail in its south-east route got later and later—is very much under way. It is a utilisation strategy, that is not binding on the Government. £6 billion programme that will benefit Gatwick and No final decision has been made on it. When we make Luton airports through the operation of a brand new our decisions on the new franchise, we shall carefully fleet of high-capacity trains running at greatly increased weigh the needs of airport passengers and commuters, frequency. The trains serving the two airports will be as well as taking into account wider strategic economic able to stop at London Bridge at peak times, which is considerations of the sort to which my hon. Friend not possible at the moment. The Thameslink programme referred. This debate is useful for feeding into that also means that, for the first time, Gatwick will get new decision-making process. direct services to destinations north of London, such as Cambridge, Stevenage and Welwyn. My hon. Friend has concerns about rolling stock. Crossrail is finally under way, with tunnelling under The Government are keen for such decisions to be London commencing at the beginning of May. Once it made, when possible, by the people who run the railways is completed, we expect Crossrail to provide new services rather than Whitehall. However, I agree that when linking Heathrow directly with the west end, the City of making choices about rolling stock and its internal London and Canary Wharf. In the longer term, Heathrow layout, the current and future franchisees will need to will also benefit from the Piccadilly line upgrade, and balance carefully the different needs and wants of railway High Speed 2 will connect to Birmingham airport and users. provide radically improved access to Heathrow from My hon. Friend the Member for Crawley also referred destinations in the midlands and the north of England. to decisions about on-train ticketing and the installation A great deal of work is under way to improve our links of ticket gates at Gatwick. I am aware of the concerns between rail and air in the south-east and elsewhere in of the airport operator and I have held discussions with the country. We shall be giving further thought to Gatwick on several occasions. However, the installation whether more can be done as part of our HLOS—high-level of gates is one of most effective ways to ensure that output specification—programme for the 2014-to-2019 passengers pay the fares that are due. Protecting that railway control period. revenue is an important element of delivering a more Let me respond to the hon. Friend’s comments in financially sustainable railway. I note that efforts were the context of the overall debate about aviation. The made to try to respond to the airport’s concerns, with a coalition has been clear that it wants a successful and choice of wider gates to facilitate passengers with larger sustainable aviation sector that supports economic growth bags. I hope that that provides some mitigation to the and addresses aviation’s environmental impacts. Our concerns that my hon. Friend and the airport operator forthcoming consultation on a sustainable framework expressed. for UK aviation will be a further opportunity to consider I want to discuss the wider programme of activity surface access to airports and the kind of issues that my that is under way to improve rail-to-air links in the hon. Friend shared with the Chamber. For example, in south-east and elsewhere. A fleet of brand new trains response to the scoping document on aviation with built by Bombardier in Derby is now in use on the which we began the policy development process last Stansted Express to improve the experience for passengers year, a number of people advocated the potential of going to that airport. Network Rail, with the assistance new fast rail links between Heathrow and Gatwick as a and support of Gatwick Airport Ltd, is investing £53 million way to deal with connectivity.Such ideas will be considered in upgrading the station, tracks and signalling at the alongside the many other responses that I am sure we airport, which includes new platforms and escalators, will receive in our consultation, in which I hope that and a refurbished concourse. That will greatly improve hon. Members will participate. the attractiveness of rail services to and from Gatwick, The Government will continue to work with airport and I was delighted when the airport and Network Rail operators, the rail industry, local authorities, local enterprise put together the funding to make it possible. partnerships and MPs on ideas to improve rail access to 55WH Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) 26 JUNE 2012 56WH

[Mrs Theresa Villiers] Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) our key airports in the years to come. All the matters mentioned by my hon. Friend will be carefully taken 12.59 pm into account when decisions are made on new franchises Hywel Williams (in the Chair): We now come to the for the railways—we are about to embark on the biggest debate on the effect of legal aid reform on mesothelioma programme of refranchising since privatisation—and victims. I call Bill Esterson—you may speak seated, if we will ensure that we consider the importance of good you find that helpful. surface access to our key airports. Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): Thank you very Zac Goldsmith: Will the Minister reconfirm that it is much, Mr Williams. I will stand, but it is kind of you to her view, and that of the Government, that the make the offer. It is a pleasure that the debate is being Government’s first priority is to find ways of making held under your chairmanship. It is an important debate, better use of existing capacity? Will she confirm that which I am sure that you and Members in all parts of any thoughts of expansion in the south-east take a very the House appreciate—so far, it is mostly Opposition clear second place, and that people will not be subjected Members, but I know that Government Members have to the horror of expansion unless it is an absolute last also indicated an interest in the subject. resort? I requested this debate because the Government have Mrs Villiers: I agree that whatever decisions are taken said that they will review the support given to victims of about long-term capacity needs in the south-east, it is mesothelioma and their families following the Legal essential that we do everything that we can right now to Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012, make our airports better and to ensure that we make the which includes industrial diseases along with personal best use of existing capacity. Two separate things need injury in measures to end no win, no fee litigation in the to be done: to work out how we improve our airports courts. The Government say that they want to stop today—we have initiatives on that important aspect fraudulent claims, but I believe that there is no evidence under way, such as the operational freedoms trial at of fraudulent claims by those suffering from mesothelioma. Heathrow and reforming how security is delivered—and, That is the basis of this debate. at the same time, to give serious, evidence-based The House of Lords tried to amend the Act to consideration to what our future capacity needs might exclude victims of mesothelioma from the changes be. to no win, no fee legislation, but the amendments made On rail-to-air connectivity, we must be mindful of by the Lords were rejected by the Government. Instead, affordability constraints and value for money. When the Government said that they would hold a review and appropriate, we continue to look to the airports that consider how to support victims and their families. So will benefit from transport improvements to make a fair far, Ministers have not said what that review will consist contribution to their funding. When there are decisions of or when it will be held. Victims and their families on how limited capacity is allocated between competing need to know. When the Minister responds, he should priorities, we will need to consider carefully the needs of tell the House what will happen in the review so that all railway users—those who are travelling to the airport those suffering from that terrible disease can know and and those who are not, including commuters and freight compare their evidence, so as not to lose out as a result operators. We need a successful and sustainable aviation of the end of no win, no fee. sector that is supported by a railway that delivers reliable, The Government decided to include industrial diseases high-quality services for all its users. That is what the along with road traffic accidents in stopping no win, no Government are striving to achieve, and I am sure that fee. The implication of the change is that mesothelioma our discussion today will provide useful input into claimants are part of the compensation culture. That forthcoming decisions on aviation and rail matters. may well affect some personal injury claims, including whiplash, but mesothelioma victims are clearly not making spurious claims. When my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) put that point to the Minister on 17 April, she asked him to give one example of a spurious mesothelioma claim. The lack of an answer made the point that there are none. Let us remind ourselves of what mesothelioma does. My hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Mr Anderson) said in the debate in April that “one fibre could go into someone’s lung and lie dormant for many years, but when it becomes active there is no alternative—that person suffers horribly and then they die. There is no cure, no remission and no element of survival; they die…Everybody who gets mesothelioma will die an agonising death.”—[Official Report, 17 April 2012; Vol. 543, c. 279.] The idea that those suffering from mesothelioma could be involved in fraudulent claims is absurd and disgraceful.

Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this timely debate. Does he agree that one of the big issues is how long we must wait 57WH Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform)26 JUNE 2012 Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) 58WH before we get information about how the review will People were exposed to this terrible disease at work in start? Since we had the debate in the main Chamber, situations which employers knew would ultimately kill some 200 people have died of mesothelioma. the workers. However, as things stand under the legislation, those same people and their families will lose a quarter Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend has a long and of the compensation that they absolutely should receive distinguished record of fighting for those suffering from from the insurers of those companies. many industrial diseases, especially mesothelioma. He The Government rejected a Lords amendment that has made the point well: 200 people have died since the would have exempted mesothelioma from the provision, last time the issue was debated. That demonstrates the but they have yet to say how sufferers and their families urgent need for the Minister to indicate exactly when will be protected. In all the non-answers from Ministers, the review will be held and how quickly it will conclude. they have yet to justify to thousands of families why they did not exempt mesothelioma. Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab): My hon. Mesothelioma is an exceptional case, because the Friend will be aware, as I am, of constituents who have problem was known about for more than a century. unfortunately contracted asbestos-related diseases such Asbestos was identified as a poisonous substance in as mesothelioma. Why are people who have terrible 1892 and has been banned from use in this country for diseases through no fault of their own being doubly almost half a century, yet employers knowingly exposed punished by the Government? Is it a case of the law of their workers to it day in, day out. They knew the unintended consequences, or does my hon. Friend believe dangers and ignored them for decades. They were eventually that they are being targeted by this uncaring Government? held accountable, but ever since the first successful case against employers and insurers on asbestos-related diseases, Bill Esterson: I thank my hon. Friend and neighbour they have kept coming back to the courts and the issue for his question, and I hope that the Minister will has kept coming back to this place. answer it. We could all make our guesses as to the true motives. There are well established financial links between Mesothelioma causes intractable pain and severe the Government and the insurance industry, which might breathlessness, which means that more than half of all be at the heart of why things are being done in the way the very modest damages claimed are for pain and that they are. suffering. The Government’s proposals would have a It cannot be right that victims of asbestos-related disproportionate effect on mesothelioma sufferers, because diseases should be required to surrender a quarter of victims receive a higher proportion of their damages for the damages that they have been awarded to pay for pain and suffering than those who claim for personal legal costs. Those damages are awarded to recognise injury. and compensate men and women who have suffered The legislation requires terminally ill asbestos victims terribly, if it is at all possible to compensate them for the who succeed in a claim for compensation against negligent, pain, suffering and life-shortening that resulted from guilty employers to pay up to 25% of their damages for their work. pain and suffering in legal costs. They are not part of Mesothelioma has an extraordinarily long latency the compensation culture, nor are they legally aided, so period of up to 60 years. As well as those 30,000 who to include them in that provision is wholly wrong. Many have already died in the United Kingdom from sufferers are so defeated by their illness that they never mesothelioma, an estimated 60,000 more are yet to lose make a claim under current circumstances. Victim support their lives due to past exposure, the vast majority of groups have been told by victims that the change proposed which occurred at work. would be a significant further deterrent to them making a claim at all. That would represent a big saving for the Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend insurance industry, which therefore has the financial agree that the coffers of the Government, in the shape interest hinted at by my hon. Friend the Member for of the Department for Work and Pensions, will also lose Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram). out? There has always been a payment back of benefits that have had to be paid up front early on because of Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): I congratulate people’s short life span once diagnosed with mesothelioma. my hon. Friend on raising this issue for the umpteenth Does he also agree that we should be making absolutely time. It is always possible to tell when an issue ought to certain that no part of the compensation is taken out? be dealt with. We fought constantly for bronchitis and The money should be used for the victims and their emphysema to be treated as industrial diseases, and did families and to repay the Government. Will my hon. the same with vibration white finger. In 1999-2000, we Friend congratulate a colleague of mine in the Welsh managed to get the show on the road. Mesothelioma Assembly, Mick Antoniw, who proposes to introduce a has been debated in this place ad nauseam, which is why private Member’s Bill that would compensate the NHS we can tell that it ought to be dealt with at long last. I for its expenditure on treating mesothelioma by recovering thank my hon. Friend for raising the matter once again. the money from liable companies? Bill Esterson: My hon. Friend speaks with greater Bill Esterson: I am happy to congratulate my hon. experience than anyone in this House on the subject Friend’s colleague. She is right that it is the companies and on the issue of protecting the rights of workers who that cause this terrible pain and suffering, as well as have suffered, over many years, grave injustice through their insurers, that should bear the financial costs, although industrial diseases and industrial accidents. He brings there is no way of truly compensating the victims and that wealth of experience from his time as a miner, and their families for their suffering. It should be the private he continues to campaign tirelessly, and I applaud him industry that caused the condition, and its insurers, that for that. He is absolutely right that we have a duty to the pays, not the public purse. victims to ensure that the matter is dealt with properly 59WH Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform)26 JUNE 2012 Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) 60WH

[Bill Esterson] insurers cannot be traced for employers that are no longer trading. As insurance companies fight mesothelioma and that this Government are held to account. We need cases to the end, often trying to elongate the case until to hear answers today as to what will happen in that the victim dies, the cost of after-the-event insurance can review, and it needs to be done quickly. be huge. As that will also be unrecoverable under the KPMG estimates that the insurance industry was Government’s plans, there is no prospect of claimants given a £1.6 billion windfall when the Government being able to afford the premiums. The Government’s ended compensation for pleural plaques. Unless the one-size-fits-all approach in the legislation is wrong. It Government change their mind on mesothelioma, a may work for some personal injury claims, but is not similar windfall may be made available to the insurers at effective in the case of complex industrial disease cases the expense of victims of industrial disease. such as those involving mesothelioma. In contrast to other diseases, mesothelioma has only Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab): one outcome—loss of life. It is not trivial, and victims My hon. Friend has given a graphic description of the need help not hindrance. Most doctors say that the pain and suffering faced and experienced by mesothelioma average lifespan from diagnosis to death is around nine sufferers. He is describing the impact that the legislation months to one year. As one victim explained: would have on mesothelioma sufferers if, following a “My life has been turned upside down, and I really didn’t want review, it was fully implemented for that group. He has to think about anything except spending my last days with my mentioned several times the review that the Government family. I worked all my life and paid all my national insurance and have offered as part of the concession that they made taxes, so this seems unfair.” while the Bill was passing through Parliament. Does he Mesothelioma victims, who often have just months to agree that it is essential that that review fully engages live, should not be expected to devote their energies to with mesothelioma sufferers and their families and especially finding the lawyer with the best deal, yet that is what the the support groups, such as the Asbestos Victims Support Government expect them to do. Asbestos-related disease Groups Forum UK, which has done so much to make is not an accident. It is the result of negligence and lack the case on behalf of mesothelioma sufferers? of duty of care. The claims of dying asbestos victims are never frivolous Bill Esterson: I thank my right hon. Friend for his or fraudulent, but they are lumped in with road traffic intervention. I completely agree with him and will come accident claims that make up more than 70% of personal shortly to what we need in the review. injury claims, for which the Government and insurance For mesothelioma sufferers, unwarranted and fatal industry suggest that conditional fee agreements have risks have been taken unknowingly, so the correct function been exploited. Between 2007 and 2011, there was a of the legal system in such cases would be to restore 6.6% reduction in employer liability cases, of which victims to the position that they were in before diagnosis most respiratory claims are a subset. During that same and to make provision for them and their families. period, road traffic accidents increased by 43% to nearly Terminally ill and dying people will have other things 800,000 cases. It is expected that mesothelioma claims on their mind than looking for a lawyer to give them a will peak in about 2015, as asbestos has been eliminated good rate, so there will not be greater competition, from the working environment. Unscrupulous claimants driving costs down, as the Minister claims. There is in may be able to fake road traffic injuries, but not fact no evidence that lawyers will reduce costs, as lawyers mesothelioma or asbestosis. Road traffic accident problems themselves will be less likely to take these cases because will not be solved by punishing asbestos victims. they risk not being able to recover costs if they lose or Mesothelioma sufferers who make a claim mainly do they face the dreadful prospect of having to recover so because they and their families will not be at risk in those costs from their clients in a situation in which they terms of legal costs, which, without no win, no fee have just lost in terrible circumstances. agreements, would be prohibitive. A claim may be valued Making changes to rules on compensation is no at between £5,000 and £10,000, which is of great importance motivation or incentive for mesothelioma sufferers. One to the individual concerned, but which could be eaten sufferer has said that up in costs and premiums under the Government’s “no amount of compensation could ever compensate for my plans. Mesothelioma sufferers would lose the whole of husband’s suffering and loss of life. To even contemplate this is their compensation simply by not taking any action, wrong. My husband’s suffering has ended but still I have terrible which, as we have heard, is increasingly likely if no images of his horrific suffering which I cannot erase…My husband changes are made. Their access to lawyers would be was poisoned going to work. I hope this Government remembers restricted by making success fees unrecoverable from that!” defendants, putting them at risk of paying defendants’ At all stages of consideration of the legislation in this costs if they lose. Victims are already reluctant to claim House and in the House of Lords, the fallacy of the because they have so many problems dealing with their Government’s position on industrial disease was pointed rapid deterioration in health and trying to survive. The out. Twice the Lords voted on amendments to this risk that if they lose they will have to pay such costs effect: would be a massive additional hurdle for some of our “The changes made by sections 43, 45 and 46 of this Act do most vulnerable people, to whom a decent, civilised not apply in relation to proceedings which include a claim for society should and would guarantee support. damages for respiratory disease or illness (whether or not resulting We should not forget that compensation is already in death) arising from industrial exposure to harmful substance.” significantly reduced for many sufferers. They must not The Government were forced to reconsider their position only provide evidence of heavy exposure dating decades and they agreed to an amendment, which brings us to back, but forgo that portion of compensation where the point of today’s debate. This is the amendment: 61WH Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform)26 JUNE 2012 Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) 62WH

“Sections 43 and 45 and diffuse mesothelioma proceedings I congratulate the hon. Member for Sefton Central (Bill (1) Sections 43 and 45 may not be brought into force in relation Esterson) on securing this timely debate. He asked to proceedings relating to a claim for damages in respect of wholly appropriate questions and I hope to be able to diffuse mesothelioma until the Lord Chancellor has— give him some of the satisfaction that he seeks, and a) carried out a review of the likely effect of those sections in some guidance for claimants and their families on the relation to such proceedings, and circumstances that we are in. b) published a report of the conclusions of the review.” I say gently to the hon. Gentleman that I slightly Since then, the nature of the review, its timing, its terms regretted the tone of his speech. To suggest that concern of reference, how it is to be conducted and who is to be about the issue is located on one side of the House and consulted have been raised several times. I have raised not the other is a little wide— those matters myself with Ministers, as have the Labour Front-Bench team. When agreeing to the compromise, Bill Esterson: Will the Minister give way? my right hon. Friend the Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan) said: Mr Blunt: No, because otherwise I will not have time “We need assurances it will be truly independent and not just a to put the necessary points on record. whitewash. We also need confidence there’ll be sufficient time allowed to see how the changes brought about impact on other successful claimants before rolling them out for mesothelioma Bill Esterson: You made an allegation. sufferers.” Given the Government’s conduct throughout, it is Mr Blunt: The sister of my right hon. Friend Lord not surprising that we and those who represent McNally, the Justice Minister in the House of Lords, mesothelioma sufferers, and the victims themselves, are died of that disease, and my father died of respiratory sceptical about the Government’s promise. Today is an disease. I assure the hon. Gentleman and all his hon. ideal opportunity, which I hope the Minister will take, Friends— to address the doubts of everyone who has concerns about mesothelioma. Anything less than a fully independent Andrew Bingham (High Peak) (Con): Will the Minister and thorough review of the potential effects of limiting give way? claims will not be within the spirit or the letter of the amendments agreed to, which enabled the Government Mr Blunt: I will not, if my hon. Friend will forgive to get their legislation through. I hope that we will not me, because I need time to put on record all the things hear generalities or evasions from the Minister. A clear that I think are important for mesothelioma sufferers, commitment to do justice for the victims of this terrible for whom concern is, very properly, universal. disease is the least we can expect. Mesothelioma is a terrible disease. We recognise its I therefore ask the Minister these questions. When devastating impact on sufferers and their families, and will the review take place? Who will be part of the we take extremely seriously the plight of sufferers and review body? What will its terms of reference be? No their right to claim compensation for negligently caused doubt it will include representatives of the insurance personal injury. As was clear from the way in which the industry, but who will be the victims’ representatives? hon. Member for Sefton Central spoke, this is an emotive Will the review be truly independent, by which I mean subject. This debate highlights the importance of the independent of the insurance industry? issue, and the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) also made that clear. Concern remains that the change to no win, no fee will cut the number of people claiming and the amount I will deal briefly with three main issues: first, why being paid by insurance companies. The insurance industry our reforms to conditional fee arrangements are the has a clear financial interest in cutting down the amounts right way forward; secondly, why we are taking an paid out. How will the Minister or his colleagues ensure exceptional course in respect of mesothelioma claims, that that interest is balanced by how the review is run? and the circumstances in which that exceptional course Will he consider an independent panel to examine will be managed once we have improved the position for mesothelioma and compensation for victims and their sufferers who cannot trace their employer’s insurer; families? Will he and his colleagues consider the call for and, thirdly, how some reforms have lowered the barriers an employers’ liability insurance bureau following the for claimants in recent years. pattern of the Motor Insurers’ Bureau? We must ask On the rationale for conditional fee arrangement why there is such a facility for traffic accident victims reform, it is important to make it clear that our current but not for those suffering from mesothelioma or other legal aid reforms do not affect mesothelioma cases, as industrial diseases. legal aid is not generally available. The Access to Justice Victims and their families want answers and protection. Act 1999 removed legal aid for the majority of personal They have a right to that protection, given the suffering injury cases, including mesothelioma cases, where alternative that they go through. It is time that Ministers gave forms of funding such as conditional fee arrangements answers about how that protection will be guaranteed, were available. As the hon. Member for Sefton Central and soon, by this Government. will be aware, the Government are implementing the recommendations in Lord Justice Jackson’s review of 1.21 pm civil litigation costs, and particularly a fundamental The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice reform of no win, no fee CFAs. Part 2 of the Legal Aid, (Mr Crispin Blunt): I apologise for the absence of the Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 Under-Secretary of State for Justice, my hon. Friend implements those reforms. the Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly), to whom Lord Justice Jackson concluded that the current this debate would normally fall, but he is serving on the arrangements, under which success fees and after-the-event Committee that is considering the Defamation Bill. insurance premiums are payable by the losing side, in 63WH Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform)26 JUNE 2012 Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) 64WH

[Mr Blunt] forward for those who are unable to trace their employer’s insurer. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman understands addition to standard legal costs, are a major contributor the crucial importance of that. to the high costs of civil litigation, and that it was right in principle to change the arrangements across the A number of reforms in recent years have improved board. The truth is that the current system is indefensible. the position of mesothelioma sufferers by lowering the It has turned out to be a racket for lawyers, which is why barriers to bringing claims. In particular, the Employers’ it is changing. The new system will assist the execution Liability Tracing Office, which was introduced in April of meritorious claims rather than supporting a claims- 2011, is designed to be a comprehensive online resource management industry. of current and historical employers’ liability policies, thus making it easier for claimants to find the relevant The Government are committed to addressing insurer. The database is updated with the results of any disproportionate costs throughout the whole of civil new traces, so its size and utility continue to increase. litigation, and the provisions in part 2 of the Act will We recognise, however, that there remains a gap where deal with the unfairness that currently exists in the sufferers cannot trace their employer’s insurer. The system between claimants and defendants. These important Department for Work and Pensions is therefore in reforms will ensure that meritorious claims can still be discussions about the way forward for stakeholders. pursued, but at a more proportionate cost. As part of Primary legislation might be required, but I anticipate the reforms, earlier settlement will be encouraged and that my noble friend Lord Freud, who is working on the damages for non-pecuniary loss, such as pain suffered matter, will make a statement before the summer recess. and loss of amenity, will be increased by 10%. In time, If primary legislation is required, however, the hon. the reforms will apply to all areas of civil litigation—that Member for Sefton Central and other hon. Members was what Lord Justice Jackson recommended, and the will understand that that will take a considerable period Government agree. of time. The Government are certainly not suggesting that mesothelioma claims are brought inappropriately. Indeed, I can give a commitment that we will consider all such claims are often among the easiest in which to the factors raised today when we come to set out the establish base merit. I want to be absolutely clear, in review’s terms of reference. I cannot, however, set out response to the tone of the remarks made by the hon. those terms of reference or a timetable, because any Member for Sefton Central, that these claims are, of review may not happen until we have identified any course, not part of the compensation culture—no one primary legislation that might be required. Additionally— has suggested that they are. They are, however, part of a the hon. Gentleman made this point, and it has also process of civil litigation that has to be reformed. been made by the right hon. Member for Tooting (Sadiq Khan)—that means that the review will occur On the temporary exception from conditional fee against the backdrop of a substantially changed conditional arrangement reforms for mesothelioma claims, we fee arrangement market, so we will of course consider announced that the relevant provisions in part 2 will the effect of those changes as part of the review. come into force in April 2013. In particular, sections 44 and 46 abolish the recoverability of success fees and I have rather more to say, but I regret that I will not after-the-event insurance costs from the losing side in be able to do so, given that, understandably, the hon. all categories of case in which they are currently used. Gentleman took interventions during his speech. We are, however, deferring implementation in relation Nevertheless, I have put on the record the substantive to mesothelioma claims until we are satisfied on the way responses that he was seeking from the Government. 65WH 26 JUNE 2012 Neglected Tropical Diseases 66WH

Neglected Tropical Diseases with NTD drug donation programmes pledged to sustain, extend or increase their programmes to the end of the decade. 1.30 pm For example, GlaxoSmithKline has already donated nearly 2 billion tablets of albendazole for lymphatic Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): It is an honour, filariasis and will continue until elimination is achieved. Mr Williams, to serve under your chairmanship. It is also providing 400 million tablets a year free of I declare an interest as the chairman of the all-party charge until 2020 to de-worm school-age children in Africa. group on neglected tropical diseases. NTDs are a group Johnson and Johnson is increasing its annual donation of diseases that affect more than 1 billion people around of mebendazole to 200 million tablets every year—again, the world. They do not have the high profile of malaria, to tackle worms. Novartis is continuing its commitment HIV/AIDS or TB—hence the word “neglected”—but to providing multi-drug therapy against leprosy in a they result in disability and death. Even for those who final push against the disease. Pfizer will continue its are less seriously affected, they bring chronic conditions donation of drugs for blinding trachoma until at least that mean loss of income. Such diseases include worms 2020, as well as donating the drug and a placebo for a or helminths, schistosomiasis or bilharzia, trachoma, study on the reduction in mortality of children treated lymphatic filariasis or elephantiasis, and leprosy. with that drug. Sanofi, Merck and various other companies Almost without exception, NTDs are diseases of the are also providing major drug donations. poor. They are also curable. The World Health It is not only drugs that are important, but vaccines. Organisation’s 2010 report found that approximately The Sabin Vaccine Institute, in which I declare an 90% of their burden can be treated with medicines interest as a trustee of its UK charitable body, is developing administered only once or twice a year, and that can vaccines to treat NTDs around the world. sometimes be achieved for as little as 50 US cents. We have come a long way in tackling such diseases in Treating and eradicating those diseases must be at the the past decade. The number of new cases of leprosy heart of any programme to tackle poverty. Yet as the reported to the WHO has fallen every year since 2002 title of the debate makes clear, they have been neglected from 620,000 to 249,000 in 2008. The number of new for many years. Institutes such as the Liverpool and cases of human African trypanosomiasis reported to London Schools of Tropical Medicine, Imperial College the WHO worldwide fell from 37,000 in 1998 to 10,000 in London and the Antwerp Institute of Tropical Medicine, 2008. However, there is still much to do—and it can be working with researchers and institutes in developing done. Three things are essential. The first is to keep up countries, have made great strides in the understanding funding. In the 1960s, malaria was on the retreat, but and treatment of NTDs. the world took its eye off the ball and it came back with a vengeance in the 1980s and 1990s. Malaria is now Chris White (Warwick and Leamington) (Con): I again being tackled, but at a cost of $5 billion to congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this important $6 billion a year and after millions of unnecessary deaths. debate, not least because his knowledge of the matter is The lesson is that we need consistency and determination. well recognised. Does he agree that Members of Parliament The UK has rightly decided that eradicating NTDs is have a role in highlighting neglected tropical diseases, one of the best ways to tackle poverty, and we should making the public, the media and policy makers aware make that part of our work each year until the work is of them, and ensuring that we reduce them because done. I am not asking for more money. DFID has they kill millions of people every year? committed a substantial amount each year for the next four years. However, there should be no uncertainty Jeremy Lefroy: I am most grateful to my hon. Friend about future funding. DFID should continue to be a for making that extremely important point. I will come reliable partner over several Parliaments. to the reasons why it is important—particularly with At the same time, I should like DFID to encourage regard to efficiency in the use of aid money, which is a other countries to begin or increase support for the major public policy question. work. The USA has been a reliable funder, for which we In recent years, Governments, principally in the UK are grateful. It would be most welcome if it, too, could and the USA, have begun seriously to fund work on commit to stable amounts over several years. Then NTDs. In the UK, this began under the previous there are donors who have yet to contribute to the work. Government with an allocation of £50 million. Earlier Will the Minister report on what he is doing to encourage this year, the Department for International Development others into the fold? announced a further £240 million over four years, which Secondly, we need to support the countries in which will supply more than four treatments every second for NTDs are endemic, to strengthen their health systems. people in the developing world. I pay tribute to the The most important thing I have learned in the past Secretary of State and his predecessor for recognising year as chairman of the all-party group is that it is only the importance of this work. We are especially fortunate through effective grass-roots health systems with committed, because the Minister—I am delighted that he will respond trained staff, often backed by community volunteers, to this debate—has been a champion in the fight against that the fight against NTDs is sustainable. One-off NTDs, both when he was chairman of the all-party treatment campaigns can be effective, and are necessary group and subsequently as Minister. where systems are weak or do not exist, but the effects Drug companies have also made a great contribution, will fade unless they are backed up by permanent staff working with bodies such as the Bill and Melinda Gates and clinics. Foundation. On the day when the UK announced a The UK has considerable expertise in working with fivefold increase in its funding commitment to tackle developing countries to strengthen their health systems, NTDs as part of a global partnership, all drug companies but it is vital that the countries themselves meet their 67WH Neglected Tropical Diseases26 JUNE 2012 Neglected Tropical Diseases 68WH

[Jeremy Lefroy] Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria to consider embracing NTDs as well? I appreciate that commitments, under the Abuja declaration, to spend the fund currently faces financial difficulties, with the 15% of their total budget on health. Few are doing that. cancelation of round 11, but it would be a good start if I would like the Minister to let hon. Members know it could acknowledge the importance of tackling NTDs what the Government are doing to encourage our partner in the fight against malaria and HIV/AIDS, and encourage Governments in those countries to keep to their its donors to support work on NTDs, just as the UK commitment under the Abuja declaration. and the USA are doing. Finally, we need to support research. I have been I also emphasise that by tackling NTDs we are not heartened, as chairman of the all-party group, to see only working with people to improve their health but both how closely involved and how generous several helping them to pursue their livelihoods, to escape the pharmaceutical companies have been in tackling NTDs very poverty that makes it much more likely that they in the way I have outlined. However, we need to work will contract the diseases, which ensures that the millennium closely with them and the research institutes in the UK development goal of tackling poverty continues to elude and elsewhere to ensure that there is a pipeline of many countries. Many NTDs, if untreated, result in effective drugs for all the relevant diseases. Developing chronic disability and, given that most people who drugs and vaccines and bringing them to market is suffer from them are likely to be involved in agriculture costly; those who suffer from NTDs cannot afford or manual labour, such disability severely affects their prices that reflect the cost of the research and development. chances of earning a living. However, although the market may not justify the cost In conclusion, I congratulate the Government on of R and D, common humanity does, and that is where announcing a fivefold increase in UK support for the the British people, through DFID, can make a huge work in fighting NTDs. It meets the Department for contribution. International Development’s criterion for tackling poverty We often speak about DFID doing this or the British and, given the low cost of treatment and the 2 billion Government doing that, but it is not they but the British people affected in one way or another, it represents very people who are making the work possible, by their good value for money. commitment to international development. I know that the voices raised against are often loud, but in my constituency of Stafford I have met thousands of people 1.42 pm who give up their time and money to support projects The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for around the world—schoolchildren, scouts, guides, International Development (Mr Stephen O’Brien): I community groups, churches and others. When the congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford British people see how it is their support, through (Jeremy Lefroy) not only on securing this important donations and taxes, that is helping to improve the lives debate but on his relentless and consistent commitment of millions suffering from NTDs, they should know to the improvement and survival of all vulnerable people, that they are an essential part of that great endeavour. and in particular children, in many parts of the planet. His commitment, both in his life before Parliament and 1.39 pm since taking over the chairmanship of the all-party group on malaria and neglected tropical diseases, carries Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): It is a pleasure huge influence and is much appreciated by parliamentarians to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Williams. I want across the House. to pursue some things that my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) said, and to congratulate This debate comes at an important moment. While him on securing this debate on such an important being gracious enough to acknowledge his generous subject. He dedicates a huge amount of his time to words, I hope that he will be the first to admit that the malaria and NTDs through his chairmanship of the effort to tackle neglected tropical diseases is very much all-party parliamentary group. a combined and collective one. Many people have worked over many years to address this issue, which is the one As vice-chairman of the all-party groups on HIV and of the most tangible issues that our generation can get AIDS and on malaria and neglected tropical diseases, I to grips with in the field of preventable, avoidable and have been struck by the emerging evidence that patients treatable diseases. NTDs have struggled to compete suffering from some NTDs are more likely to contract against the three best-known diseases—HIV/AIDS, HIV/AIDS or severe malaria. Dr Peter Hotez writes in tuberculosis and malaria—because they often do not his manuscript “The neglected tropical diseases and the kill. Nevertheless, they impede and imperil the quality neglected infections of poverty: overview of their common of life and well-being of many people in many parts of features, global disease burden and distribution, new our planet. control tools, and prospects for disease elimination” that I shall begin by setting the debate in a bit of context, from the coalition Government’s perspective, and I “in the case of malaria there is a high degree of geographic overlap with hookworm infection…with evidence to show that shall then seek to answer Members’ questions. When we co-infections of malaria and hookworm result in severe came into office a couple of years ago, we made it clear anemia…Similarly, urinary tract schistosomiasis, which occurs in that we wanted to build a different style of international more than 100 million people in Sub-Saharan Africa…commonly development, one based on dynamic partnerships as results in female genital schistosomiasis that is associated with a well as on the relentless pursuit of results and value for threefold increased susceptibility to HIV/AIDS”. money in the Department’s work. I think that it is In other words, if we are effectively to tackle the accepted as common ground, both here and across the killers—malaria and HIV/AIDS—we need to treat NTDs House, that the tackling of global disease, particularly at the same time. Given that, will the Minister ask the tropical and not least neglected diseases, represents 69WH Neglected Tropical Diseases26 JUNE 2012 Neglected Tropical Diseases 70WH value for money.Our vision for controlling NTDs involved are much appreciated and hugely valuable—as well as marshalling the evidence that NTD programmes deliver with the endemic countries and indeed with NGOs. As results, to justify increasing our investment considerably well as guinea worm eradication, the UK’s NTD package over the next few years. We were certainly encouraged comprises five distinct but integrated strands; I will and influenced by the very positive reports from across repeat them, although they were accurately described the NTD world, including from our pharmaceutical by my hon. Friend. company partners, the World Health Organisation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, and indeed the We will increase support to fight the other diseases United States Agency for International Development, that we are already working to combat, which are which was rightly referred to by my hon. Friend. lymphatic filariasis, onchocerciasis, schistosomiasis and soil-transmitted helminths. The UK’s experienced and respected academic community has encouraged us to relentlessly do more. I We will conduct more research, which is absolutely well remember the many representations that I received critical. Research was one of the issues that my hon. when I occupied the chair of the all-party group on Friend raised. That research will build on the back of a malaria and neglected tropical diseases, which my hon. fantastic track record of research around the world, not Friend now occupies. The UK academic community’s least in this country, where we have global centres of conviction was, and remains, infectious and undiminished, excellence. I had the honour and the privilege to be the and I found that their information was an enormously vice-chairman, in a voluntary capacity, of the Liverpool useful body of information to carry with me into office School of Tropical Medicine, where I saw such research as a Minister. for myself. The London School of Tropical Medicine, The coalition Government’s determination to achieve other London universities and colleges and many other the UN’s target for official development assistance spend institutions around the country also carry out research. of 0.7% of GNP, and to do that by demonstrating We have been seeking to strengthen the capacity of life-changing and transformative results to the British the WHO’s NTD department itself, and now we are public, provided the bedrock for the decision that we able to do so. There are new programmes to control have taken. Our conclusion was that a significant increase trachoma and visceral leishmaniasis, and an integrated in the level and scope of our involvement was warranted programme approach to tackle a range of NTDs in two to improve health outcomes and to reduce poverty, high-burden countries because, as my hon. Friend is while ensuring value for money in achieving those results. well aware, there are quite a number of opportunities As my hon. Friend has already said, last October at a for synergies in tackling a number of diseases, where joint event with President Carter—whose own personal one can graft on to the back of some of the interventions commitment in this sector has been undoubted throughout for HIV/AIDS, and particularly for TB and malaria, his post-presidential career—I pledged that the UK not least because of the bed nets. would increase its support to trying to achieve guinea worm eradication by 2015 if others stepped up and In many respects, referring to that issue is a way that I were able to help to close the financing gap. The challenge can answer the essential question put by the hon. Member was met in January, when the Bill and Melinda Gates for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham); I am grateful to Foundation, His Highness Sheikh Khalifa bin Zayed Al her for her contribution to the debate. She asked if the Nahyan, who is the President of the United Arab Emirates, global health fund could be extended to tackle NTDs. It and the Children’s Investment Fund Foundation pledged is fair to say that even in the current circumstances, enough money to close that financing gap. which she acknowledged are an impediment, the fund’s focus is on HIV/AIDS, malaria and TB, and even if That was important because, as my hon. Friend there were not the current financial readjustments, which indicated, it is necessary to seek to encourage others. It we hope will give us a stronger position to go forward is not just a question of seeking, as it were, to impose and sustain what the fund is best at doing and what it any kind of leadership or leverage; it is actually about has been tremendously successful at doing in the last how we get the best collective effort. That will be the 10 years, a focus on NTDs could be a distraction and most sustainable part of the process in the future, rather could start diluting the fund’s efforts, particularly through than continually having to renew funding. the country co-ordinating mechanisms, which are the That exercise in January was really helpful and it has essential mechanism through which delivery is made at given us great encouragement in this field. Although it country level. What will be important, however, is to is, of course, early days on the road to 2015, it is not so look at whether we can give a greater sense of purpose early that we do not need to make progress. So far this and instruction to the way in which the country year, the results have indeed been impressive. Only in co-ordinating mechanisms work to see where those South Sudan has there been any reported cases of synergies can be captured. In that way, we get the guinea worm this year. There have been 143 cases there, consequential collateral benefit of addressing the NTDs which represents a reduction of 62% compared with the through what is already taking place or could be easily same period last year. Of course that is good news, but and mechanistically expanded in an easy, practicable, we should remain aware of the considerable difficulties community-based way at ground level up when dealing of operating in many of the affected countries as we with HIV/AIDS, TB and malaria programmes. Building aim to maintain the strong progress that has been on that community health approach should in itself achieved so far. bring benefits to the NTDs. The NTDs themselves tend On 21 January, we announced increased support for to be rather more specifically focused and are somewhat NTD control measures. That increased support has more geographically identified than some of those broader- strengthened the UK’s partnerships with the WHO, with range diseases. We need to be careful, therefore, not to foundations, with other donors and with pharmaceutical force or to graft something on to them. I take the point companies that make drug donations—donations that seriously, and the answer is probably through synergies. 71WH Neglected Tropical Diseases26 JUNE 2012 Neglected Tropical Diseases 72WH

[Mr Stephen O’Brien] to bear on lymphatic filariasis, schistosomiasis, guinea worm and avoidable blindness are at the forefront of On 30 January this year, we had the London declaration, the push for integration, especially at the country level, which took us a step further and set us the challenging with country and other developmental partners. Its aim 2020 deadline to demonstrate real progress. The meeting is to expand the numbers of organisations and sectors brought together some of the countries most heavily committed to supporting NTD control. afflicted by NTDs—pharmaceutical companies, donors, What has happened over the past five months? The academics, foundations and international financial UK has agreed with WHO how to strengthen its NTD institutions. Together we pledged to focus on 10 diseases, department capacity. That is important, as the department majoring on the five that preventive chemotherapy can plays the key role of convening and setting standards, as control, such as schistosomiasis, and five that fall into well as helping ensure that the donated drug supply the intensified disease management category, including matches and meets demand. My Department has made guinea worm and visceral leishmaniasis, and to continue considerable progress in developing the new trachoma to support research. I hope my hon. Friend is pleased and visceral leishmaniasis programmes, as well as with this emphasis on research about which I am pretty programmes for an integrated approach to tackling obsessed. I had to give evidence myself yesterday to the neglected tropical diseases in two countries. Science and Technology Committee, which was not easy. Expanding programmes to tackle neglected tropical diseases is an international effort. We are working closely Jeremy Lefroy: I am delighted by the emphasis on with colleagues, particularly in the United States Agency research. As the Minister has already said in his speech, for International Development, the World Bank, WHO the UK is a world leader in research. I have visited the and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, to ensure Liverpool school and was mightily impressed by what I that we continue to seek effective mechanisms for tackling saw there. We have also had huge contributions from such diseases while working through health systems, for the London school and Imperial college among others. example by exploring mass drug administration through I am delighted to hear that the Government place such schools and the role of improved water and sanitation. great emphasis on research. Working collaboratively in-country is high on the agenda, as is developing strategies for working in challenging Mr O’Brien: As ever, one should back centres of countries with heavy NTD prevalence, such as Nigeria, excellence. We are all pleased to acknowledge that. I Democratic Republic of the Congo, which the Select was pleased to see that the director of the Liverpool Committee on International Development recently visited, School of Tropical Medicine was awarded a CBE in the and South Sudan, where I was recently. That will reinforce recent Queen’s honours list. value for money and avoid duplication, which is vital to increasing impact. Essentially, the challenge is set for all of us to work together in a complementary fashion through an overall Binding together all that work is our relentless focus strategy that allows these diseases to be managed within on the achievement of results. Our bold decision to a country’s primary healthcare system—to the extent maintain development spend at 0.7% of gross national that there is capacity in the system to work with—and income at a time of UK spending austerity brings with ultimately to be eliminated as a public health problem. it an obligation to demonstrate to our constituents as National legislatures have an important role to play well as to those benefiting from our programmes that here in making the case to Health and Finance Ministers the money is being extremely well spent. on behalf of their constituents. The results of our investment will be huge. By 2015, The session in London was groundbreaking, but UK support will help protect more than 140 million after the fine words, the question is how to put them people from neglected tropical diseases and the suffering, into effect. The first point is that of course we are disability and death that they may cause. To do so, we building on a number of existing partnerships that for have increased our financial investment and cumulative years had sought additional resources to expand their spend from £50 million to £245 million by 2015. Our range and coverage. The second point, which is an investment provides a platform for expanding our work answer to one of my hon. Friend’s questions, is the with the NTD community. With them, we can build on positive response. In many ways, it also addresses the partnerships for change among international agencies, point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick Governments, academic institutions, non-governmental and Leamington (Chris White) who helpfully reminded organisations, corporations, national Ministries of Health, us that we must continue with commitment to build and most of all with people who live where the road awareness among the public. There must be a public ends. Increasing Government commitment through buy-in and sense of ownership of this approach. There increased domestic resource provision is the starting is the political will within the UK to sustain the support point for sustainability, including strengthening the systems for these tremendous interventions that have such an that deliver health services. effect and impact on the most vulnerable in the world. I pay tribute to a vast range of academics, campaigners, Getting that positive response and support from NGOs and parliamentarians. Within just two years of organisations such as the Children’s Investment Fund the formation of the coalition Government, we have Foundation and Geneva Global was encouraging. made a massive step up. There is cross-party recognition In late 2011, a number of institutions here launched of a commitment to scale up over the past couple of the UK Coalition against NTDs as a collaborative years, I am pleased to say, in the context of our overall partnership between UK organisations actively engaged commitment to international development on behalf of in research, implementation and capacity building for the British people, whose broad generosity we are able NTD control at scale. Bringing considerable experience to express through such innovative programmes. 73WH Neglected Tropical Diseases26 JUNE 2012 Neglected Tropical Diseases 74WH

We must recognise and accept that there is a risk of My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford asked about failure. Although we think that the interventions are vaccine development, which he knows I support strongly, well proven and their value for money will be great, as in many respects, for all diseases for which it is possible. my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford said, there was We all wait with bated breath to hear whether the first a reverse on malaria in the past. I have just returned vaccine for a parasite-borne disease, malaria, will become from the Sahel, where we were considering nutrition, a an effective element in the toolbox against that disease completely separate issue. Part of the challenge is that and for the control of its transmission. Our support for as we achieve success, the pictures will not be on our vaccine development, particularly for neglected tropical television screens. Being able to sustain it means committing diseases, is given primarily through the drugs for neglected continuing resources at the same if not greater levels. diseases initiative and through Tropical Diseases Research We must retain the political will to do the right thing at the WHO. Working collaboratively through those institutions, we harness the greatest expertise. Of course, through early interventions that work, making the political as with all vaccines, we need proof that it really works in case all the tougher. Therefore, having champions such adults and children effectively and efficaciously. It is as my hon. Friend and the two colleagues who have rare to find a vaccine that is an absolute solution rather joined him today is vital as part of the broad coalition than just a tool in the box. of interest, which will ensure that we have the greatest impact in our generation for the most deliverable solutions 2pm for some of the greatest need in the world. Sitting adjourned without Question put (Standing Order No. 10(11)).

5WS Written Ministerial Statements26 JUNE 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 6WS

before the end of the moratorium. In addition, future Written Ministerial reviews will be at least three years before any extended end date of the moratorium. Consumers can therefore Statements be reassured that they will always have at least three years to prepare. With the above provisions in place, the Government Tuesday 26 June 2012 believe that the concordat provides a proportionate and effective framework which will help to maintain consumer confidence in the agreement while also ensuring that insurers have access to relevant information. It is an DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER effective and successful example of industry self-regulation. A copy of the “Concordat and Moratorium on Genetics McKay Commission and Insurance” has been placed in the Library. Copies are available to hon. Members from the Vote Office and to noble Lords from the Printed Paper Office. The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Mark Harper): Since the establishment of the Commission examining the consequences of devolution for the House of Commons, a significant programme of work has HOME DEPARTMENT been commenced, including multiple thorough oral evidence Sessions. This has inevitably led to increased time commitment of the Commissioners. National Fraud Authority (Annual Report and Accounts) Sir Geoffrey Bowman’s own personal time commitments mean that he has reluctantly decided to step down from his position as a member of the McKay Commission. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the The Government believe that there is still a good Home Department (James Brokenshire): The National range and balance of expertise among the remaining Fraud Authority (NFA) annual report and accounts panel of five Commissioners. Therefore they have no 2011-12 has been laid before the House today and plans to appoint another Commissioner in place of copies will be available in the Vote Office. They will be Sir Geoffrey Bowman, but will continue with the remaining published shortly on the NFA’s pages of the Home Commissioners. Office website.

HEALTH TRANSPORT

Genetics and Insurance Aviation Security

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health The Secretary of State for Transport (Justine Greening): (Anne Milton): I am announcing the outcome of a Today I am publishing a summary of responses to the planned review of the concordat and moratorium on Government’s consultation on better regulation for aviation genetics and insurance. The concordat is an agreement security, and announcing the Government’s decision on between the Government and the Association of British taking forward the initiative. Insurers (ABI) which provides for insurers’ use of predictive The consultation document “Better Regulation for genetic test results and includes a voluntary code restricting Aviation Security” (http://assets.dft.gov.uk/consultations/ the use of predictive genetic tests in life, critical illness dft-2011-21/dft-2011-21-consultation.pdf) set out proposals and income protection insurance up to specified financial to modernise the regulatory regime for aviation security limits. to bring it into line with better regulation principles, The concordat now includes clearer compliance and promote innovation and efficiency and ensure the best monitoring arrangements and outlines arrangements possible passenger experience. It proposed a move to an for assessing new applications by insurers to use the outcome focused risk based (OFRB) approach which results of predictive genetic tests. would give operators the flexibility and responsibility to The Government have heard concerns from consumers design security processes that deliver specified security regarding the potential uncertainty for those who decide outcomes, perhaps more focused towards the needs of to take a predictive genetic test now—under the their passengers, rather than requiring them, as at present, moratorium—but who may only wish to take out insurance to comply with prescriptive security requirements. It at a later date and who fear they may be caught out if builds on the successful and similar approach that now the moratorium should suddenly end. applies in aviation safety regulation. Therefore, to reassure consumers, the Government The move to an OFRB approach would be managed and the ABI have agreed to strengthen the agreement. through the introduction of a security management The moratorium has already been extended until November system (SeMS) developed and operated by each responsible 2017. The next planned review of the concordat will be organisation. A SeMS is an organised, systematic approach in 2014. As a result of the current review, the ABI will to managing security which embeds security management not end the agreement outside of the review process or into the day-to-day activities of the organisation. 7WS Written Ministerial Statements26 JUNE 2012 Written Ministerial Statements 8WS

We will begin with a series of SeMS pilots, starting at significant change in the approach to the regulation of London City airport once the Olympics have finished, aviation security. We have therefore decided that in which industry operators will develop the SeMS development and roll-out of SeMS is the right first step approach and in so doing enhance their internal security to take towards the roll-out of the OFRB approach. cultures. The pilot at London City airport will be concerned The CAA has been consulted and supports this decision. only with the organisation and governance of security The conferring of functions on the CAA does not at the airport, not with the security checks themselves, depend on this development being completed. which will continue to be managed and delivered in the The summary report, with further information about current way. our plans for implementing the new approach, will be Once these pilots have been concluded, and we are available in the Libraries of both Houses and on the satisfied that the SeMS process is sufficiently robust and Department’s website. will deliver its intended benefits, we shall look to roll it out generally across the industry. This will provide a sound basis for the development and piloting of the Cycle Safety OFRB approach. The consultation ran from 14 July until 7 November 2011. Some 116 responses were received, from a range The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport of organisations and individuals in the aviation industry (Norman Baker): My colleague the Under-Secretary of as well as from interested bodies. I am grateful to them State for Transport, the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead for the time they took in responding and for their (Mike Penning), and I are announcing today a £15 million informed and constructive comments. fund to improve safety for cyclists in England (outside London). This is in addition to the £15 million support I am pleased to say that there was overwhelming for cycle safety improvements within London announced support for the proposed new approach. In publishing by the Government in March. the consultation the Government acknowledged that these are complex proposals which require further This fund will provide capital support to improve development. The responses have been helpful in clarifying safety at junctions identified as having a record of road some of the issues involved including, importantly, the incidents that have resulted in cyclists being killed or proposed timetable. seriously injured. The consultation proposed that the new arrangements The Department for Transport will now work in should be phased in over three years starting in April partnership with local authorities and the cycling 2013. The Civil Aviation Bill, which is currently before stakeholder forum—which brings together cycling groups, Parliament, provides for various aviation security functions safety experts, local authorities and other interested that are currently performed by the Department for parties—to identify and prioritise junctions. This process Transport to be conferred on the Civil Aviation Authority will use Department for Transport analysis of official (CAA). Subject to the date of Royal Assent, we are accident data to highlight potential targets. preparing for the CAA to take on those functions from Further identification on how the money will be April 2014. The OFRB proposals would represent a allocated will be announced in the autumn. 1P Petitions26 JUNE 2012 Petitions 2P

received. The Government are currently considering Petition these responses. We will publish a summary of the responses and make a decision about our proposals in Tuesday 26 June 2012 due course. In the meantime, the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 OBSERVATIONS makes it an offence to allow a dog to be dangerously out of control in a public place or a place it has no right to be. A dog is regarded to be “dangerously out of control” on any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS apprehension that it will injure any person, whether or Dangerous dogs not it actually does so. The Dogs Act 1871 also provides remedies, including destruction orders, in a wide range The Humble Petition of Deborah Bowler, of circumstances where a dog is not kept under proper Sheweth, control. Such situations could therefore include instances where a dog attacks another animal. That the Petitioner believes that attacks by dogs made on all other animals should be made illegal and In addition, the Animal Welfare Act 2006 makes it an that owners should be legally responsible for their dogs’ offence to cause any unnecessary suffering to an animal. actions. A person could therefore be prosecuted if their dog causes injury to another animal. Wherefore your Petitioner prays that your Honourable House shall urge the Government to consider legislating Under civil law it is an offence if a dog owner to make owners accountable for their dogs’ actions in deliberately sends a dog on to another person’s land in the case of attacks on other animals. pursuit of game. Under civil law a dog owner is likely to And your Petitioner, as in duty bound, will ever pray, be liable if a dog owner enters land and causes damage &c.—[Presented by Jacob Rees-Mogg, Official Report, which it is in the nature of a dog to commit. It is also an 12 June 2012; Vol. 546, c. 296 .] offence for a dog to be at large in a field of sheep. Under the Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953 the owner [P001097] and anyone else under whose control the dog is at the Observations from the Secretary of State for State for time will be guilty of an offence if it worried livestock Environment, Food and Rural Affairs: on agricultural land. Under the Animals Act 1971 The Government’s consultation on a package of anyone who is the keeper of a dog that causes damage proposals for tackling irresponsible ownership of dogs by killing or injuring livestock is liable for the damage closed on 15 June 2012. Over 23,000 responses were caused.

157W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 158W

Mr David Jones: One part-time and one non-permanent Written Answers to member of staff held Government procurement cards in 2010-11 and 2011-12. The Wales Office does not pay Questions any staff off-payroll. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Tuesday 26 June 2012 Wales on which dates her Department has published Government procurement card spending over £500 since May 2010. [113350]

WALES Mr David Jones: In line with Cabinet Office guidelines the Wales Office first published procurement card spending Energy on both the Wales Office and Data.Gov websites on 30 September 2011. Since that date, data on spend exceeding £500 has been published quarterly. We most Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for recently published data on 8 March 2012. Wales whether her Department has switched its (a) gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of the last 10 years. Tanks [113452] Mr Hollobone: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr David Jones: Electricity for the Wales Office’s Wales what discussions she has had with the Secretary London building is supplied under a Ministry of Justice of State for Defence on the future of tank regiments in contract and the supplier has not changed during the Wales. [113917] period requested. The Wales Office is not supplied with gas. Mrs Gillan: I have had a number of discussions about the structure of regiments in Wales as part of the study Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for into the Army’s future force structure. The outcome of Wales which energy supplier supplies her Department the study will be announced once decisions have been with (a) gas and (b) electricity. [113490] made. Until then it is not possible to comment on which specific units may be affected. Mr David Jones: Electricity for the Wales Office’s London building is supplied by British Gas under a Ministry of Justice contract. Energy for the Department’s Cardiff leased office space is provided for the building CABINET OFFICE as a whole by the Landlord. The Wales Office is not supplied with gas. Energy

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Caroline Flint: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Wales how much her Department has spent on its (a) Office (1) how much has spent on (a) gas and (b) gas and (b) electricity bills in each of the last 10 years. electricity bills for the Deputy Prime Minister’s office [113511] since May 2011; [113492] (2) how much his Department has spent on its (a) Mr David Jones: The Wales Office holds information gas and (b) electricity bills for the Prime Minister’s on spends against electricity from financial year 2004-05. Office in each of the last 10 years. [113493] The total spends for each year is shown as follows: Mr Maude: The Prime Minister’s Office and Deputy Electricity (£) Prime Minister’s are integral parts of the Cabinet Office. 2004-05 5,308 Corona Energy and Shell supply gas while EDF 2005-06 4,132 Energy, British Gas and Npower supply electricity to 2006-07 5,054 the Department. 2007-08 4,007 The central London Cabinet Office estate and Rosebery 2008-09 7,416 Court have retained the same gas and electricity suppliers 2009-10 9,730 for the last 10 years while the Central Office of Information 2010-11 12,468 switched suppliers in 2005 and the Emergency Planning 2011-12 -6.078 College, York, in 2011. The amount spent on gas and electricity over the last The Wales Office does not have a gas supply. 10 years can be provided only at disproportionate cost.

Government Procurement Card Public Services

Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Stephen Timms: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Wales how many procurement card holders in her Office pursuant to the answer of 20 June 2012, Official Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed Report, column 1074W, on public services, what on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a non- transparency commitments the Department for Work permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and and Pensions is being required to follow; and on what (iii) 2011-12. [113332] date they were set. [113913] 159W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 160W

Mr Maude: Transparency commitments related to SCOTLAND government spend were set out in the Prime Minister’s letters of 31 May 2010 and 7 July 2011. Energy Research Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Chope: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office Scotland whether his Department has switched its (a) if he will make it his policy that his Department will gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of the last not commission or fund research into the opinions of 10 years. [113451] hon. Members on issues of public policy; and if he will make a statement. [110291] David Mundell: The Scotland Office has changed its gas and electricity suppliers on a number of occasions Mr Maude [holding answer 11 June 2012]: in the last 10 years. Commissioning of research and the proposed field for the research will be considered on a case by case basis. Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Unemployment: Young People Scotland which energy supplier supplies his Department with (a) gas and (b) electricity. [113489] Steve McCabe: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many young people have been unemployed David Mundell: The Scotland Office is supplied with for more than a year in (a) England, (b) the west gas by Total and with electricity by Scottish Power and midlands and (c) south Birmingham. [113840] British Gas. Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for asked the authority to reply. Scotland how much his Department has spent on its (a) gas and (b) electricity bills in each of the last Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2012: 10 years. [113510] As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question asking Michael Moore: The Scotland Office spend on gas how many young people have been unemployed for more than a year in (a) England; (b) the West Midlands and (c) South Birmingham. and electricity in the last ten years is shown in the (113840) following table: The Office for National Statistics (ONS) compiles unemployment statistics in line with International Labour Organisation (ILO) £ definitions for local areas from the Annual Population Survey Electricity Gas (APS). 2002-03 28,439 88,244 Table 1 shows the number of people aged 16 to 24 who have 2003-04 23,703 88,085 been unemployed for more than 12 months in England and the West Midlands, from the APS, for the 12 month period ending 2004-05 23,372 96,362 March 2012, which is the latest available estimate. However, due 2005-06 21,650 106,883 to small sample sizes estimates of the number of people aged 16 2006-07 36,488 105,968 to 24 claiming for more than a year resident in South Birmingham 2007-08 26,481 78,669 are not available. 2008-09 30,728 100,262 As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject 2009-10 33,809 63,057 to a margin of uncertainty. A guide to the quality of the estimates 2010-11 22,315 89,435 is given in the table. 2011-12 19,733 69,517 National and local area estimates for many labour market statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant count are available on the NOMIS website at: Government Procurement Card http://www.nomisweb.co.uk Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Table 1: Number of people aged 16 to 24 resident in England and the west midlands who are unemployed for more than a year Scotland how many procurement card holders in his Thousand Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed 12 months ending March 2012 Level on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a non- permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and England *193 (iii) 2011-12. [113333] West Midlands ***23 South Birmingham ****1— Michael Moore: All Scotland Office staff are paid 1 Data has not been supplied as it has been classed as unreliable. Note: through payroll. None of the staff who hold procurement Coefficients of Variation have been calculated for the latest period as an cards are either part time or non-permanent employees. indication of the quality of the estimates. See following Guide to Quality. Guide to Quality: The Coefficient of Variation (CV) indicates the quality of an estimate, the Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for smaller the CV value the higher the quality. The true value is likely to lie within Scotland on which dates his Department has published +/- twice the CV—for example, for an estimate of 200 with a CV of 5% we Government procurement card spending over £500 would expect the population total to be within the range 180-220. Key: since May 2010. [113351] * 0 = CV<5%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered precise. **5=CV<10%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered reasonably Michael Moore: The Scotland Office has published precise. *** 10 = CV <20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered acceptable. the dates of publication of its Government procurement **** CV ? 20%—Statistical Robustness: Estimates are considered too unreliable card spending over £500 since May 2010 on the Office’s for practical purposes. website alongside the data itself: Source: Annual Population Survey http://www.scotlandoffice.gov.uk/scotlandoffice/16203.html 161W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 162W

NORTHERN IRELAND COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT Energy Green Belt Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland whether his Department has Communities and Local Government whether he switched its (a) gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of expects new areas of land to be designated as green belt the last 10 years. [113453] following the publication of the National Planning Mr Paterson: My Department has not switched either Policy Framework. [113538] its gas or electricity supplier in any of the last 10 years. Greg Clark: It is for local authorities to decide if they Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for want to designate new areas of Green Belt, and if so to Northern Ireland which energy supplier supplies his take proposals through the Local Plan process which Department with (a) gas and (b) electricity. [113488] includes public consultation and an independent examination. The National Planning Policy Framework Mr Paterson: The following suppliers provide my sets out policy on Green Belt in Section 9 of the Department with gas and electricity: document. Northern Ireland: Northern Ireland Electricity and Phoenix Gas John Mann: To ask the Secretary of State for London: EDF and British Gas Communities and Local Government what his policy is on (a) new settlements and (b) urban extensions in Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for green belts. [113540] Northern Ireland how much his Department has spent on its (a) gas and (b) electricity bills in each of the last Greg Clark: As with previous policy on the Green 10 years. [113509] Belt, the National Planning Policy Framework Mr Paterson: Figures are only comparable from maintains that inappropriate development is, by definition, devolution in April 2010. Since this date my Department harmful to the Green Belt and should not be approved has spent the following amount on gas and electricity. except in very special circumstances. Electricity: £465,950 The Framework sets out that when considering Gas: £86,163 any planning application, local planning authorities These figures cover the period April 2010-31 May 2012. should ensure that substantial weight is given to any harm to the Green Belt. ’Very special circumstances’ Government Procurement Card will not exist unless the potential harm to the Green Belt by reason of inappropriateness, and any other Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for harm, is clearly outweighed by other considerations. Northern Ireland how many procurement card holders Local planning authorities should regard the construction in his Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) of new buildings as inappropriate in Green Belt. Exceptions employed on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a to this can be found listed in paragraph 89 of the non-permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 Framework. and (iii) 2011-12. [113334] Housing: Construction Mr Paterson: Comparable figures for the Department as it is now configured are not available following the Ms Buck: To ask the Secretary of State for completion of devolution of policing and justice functions Communities and Local Government how many on 12 April 2010. affordable homes are included in the schemes Prior to this year the Northern Ireland Office’s finance shortlisted for the Get Britain Building programme in function was delivered by the Department of Justice in each region. [113437] Northern Ireland; my Department therefore has information only in relation to 2011-12 which is as Grant Shapps: The Get Britain Building scheme is follows: designed to unlock locally-backed stalled sites with (a) None planning permission to help restart construction activity. (b) One There is no requirement for bids to include affordable (c) None units, although the outstanding planning consent granted by the local authority may require affordable units, Northern Ireland Grand Committee reflecting local planning policies. Vernon Coaker: To ask the Secretary of State for A contributing factor for sites being stalled may be Northern Ireland what the Government’s policy is on due to economically unrealistic section 106 agreements the role of the Northern Ireland Grand Committee. negotiated at the height of the housing boom—resulting [113935] in no development, no regeneration and no community benefits at all. As outlined in the written ministerial Mr Paterson: We believe that the Northern Ireland statement of 23 March 2011, Official Report, Grand Committee can play an important role in facilitating columns 57-58WS, Ministers have encouraged councils debate on Northern Ireland issues. For example, since to consider such unviable agreements to help May 2010 the Government has held Grand Committee facilitate development, particularly on stalled sites. debates on the implications for Northern Ireland of the As outlined in November 2011’s Housing Strategy, we comprehensive spending review and the big society intend to take further steps to help unlock sites in this agenda. regard. 163W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 164W

The total number of affordable homes included in The Attorney-General: The Treasury Solicitors Expressions of Interest short listed for Get Britain Department manages the gas and electricity suppliers Building funding in March 2012 was 1,878. These are for the Treasury Solicitor’s Department (TSol), HM Crown broken down by Homes and Communities Agency Prosecution Service Inspectorate (HMCPSI) and (since operating area in the following table: May 2007) the Attorney-General’s Office (AGO). The AGO does not hold any information on energy suppliers Homes and Communities Agency prior to this date. operating area Number of affordable homes The following is a list of these suppliers for the past East and South East 229 10 years: London 526 Electricity Midlands 376 North East, Yorkshire and the 263 TSol: Queen Anne’s Chambers Humber 2002-05 London Energy and London Electricity. North West 117 TSol: One Kemble Street South and South West 367 2005-06 E.ON This table is only for first round, shortlisted Expressions 2007-08 SWALEC of Interest; the completions are likely to be lower than 2008-09 npower Expressions of Interest, in part due to the due diligence and contract agreement process. The prospectus for the 2009 to present EDF. second round was published by the Homes and TSol: Riverside Chambers Taunton Communities Agency on 21 June 2012. 2002-04 South Western Electricity Planning Permission 2004 to present British Gas. TSol: Southern House Croydon Stuart Andrew: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-present E.ON. Communities and Local Government how he proposes HMCPSI: Old Queen Street (to 2011) that neighbourhood forums and neighbourhood plans EDF. developed in areas not represented by parish or town councils will be funded. [113854] AGO: Victoria Street (from May 2007) EDF. Robert Neill: The Government has committed to Gas providing up to £50 million until March 2015 to support local councils in making neighbourhood planning a TSol: Queen Anne’s Chambers success. As part of this in 2011-12 the neighbourhood 2002-05 Corona Energy. planning front runners programme made available TSol: One Kemble Street £4.66 million to local planning authorities to support No gas supplied to this building. the development of neighbourhood plans. We are considering funding options for 2012-13, 2014-15 and TSol: Riverside Chambers Taunton 2015-16 and will make an announcement in due course. 2002 to present Corona Energy. The Department has made available £4.25 million to TSol: Southern House Croydon date to four organisations (the Prince’s Foundation for 2010 to present Gazprom. Building Community; the Royal Town Planning Institute; Locality (the Building Communities Consortium) and HMCPSI: Old Queen Street (to 2011) the Campaign to Protect Rural England (working with Corona. National Association of Local Councils) as part of the AGO: Victoria Street (from May 2007) Supporting Communities in Neighbourhood Planning E.ON (standing charge only). scheme to enable communities that wish to engage in planning at either the neighbourhood or local level, to The SFO currently has two sites, Elm House on Elm access free advice and support. Local businesses, landowners Street and part of the ITN building on Gray’s Inn and developers may also be interested in sponsoring Road. and taking a role in neighbourhood planning. At Elm House, gas is supplied by Corona and electricity Further information about neighbourhood planning is supplied by EDF Energy. These suppliers have provided is available at the gas and electricity for the last 10 years as part of the http://communityrights.communities.gov.uk/what-are- Government Procurement Service framework agreements. community-rights/neighbourhood-planning For the ITN building, the SFO pays the managing agent for its energy consumption through the service charge for this property. The SFO has used this building only since 2005-06. ATTORNEY-GENERAL The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) is responsible Energy for the purchase of gas and electricity in the buildings it occupies, it does so through a Government Caroline Flint: To ask the Attorney-General (1) Procurement Service framework contract. There has whether the Law Officers’ Departments have switched been no change in the contracted suppliers used during (a) gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of the last any of the last 10 years. At other sites, gas and electricity 10 years; [113470] is supplied under arrangements made by landlords or (2) which energy supplier supplies the Law Officers’ major occupiers, and is paid for by way of a service Departments with (a) gas and (b) electricity. [113491] charge. 165W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 166W

The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) purchases £ gas and electricity from the following suppliers Treasury Crown through a Government Procurement Service framework Solicitors Prosecution Serious Fraud contract: Department* Service Office Gas—Corona Energy; 2011-12 Electricity—Electricite De France (EDF) (large sites) and; and Gas 1,557 207,847 21,088 British Gas—(small sites). Electricity 249,405 1,344,089 196,443 There are a number of sites occupied by the * TSol data also cover the Attorney-General’s Office and HM Crown CPS where arrangements for the supply of gas and Prosecution Service Inspectorate. electricity are made by commercial landlords under lease arrangements or, by other Government Departments under a Memorandum of Terms of Occupation ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE (MOTO). No data are held on the energy providers used at these sites. Advisory Bodies

Caroline Flint: To ask the Attorney-General how Martin Caton: To ask the Secretary of State for (a) much the Law Officers’ Departments have spent on Energy and Climate Change what the cost to the public (b) gas and electricity bills in each of the last 10 years. purse was of each of the statutory advisory bodies [113512] reporting to his Department in the latest period for which figures are available. [113519] The Attorney-General: The information requested is set out in the following table: Gregory Barker: The Department of Energy and Climate Change does not have any statutory advisory £ bodies. Treasury Crown Solicitors Prosecution Serious Fraud Carbon Sequestration: Yorkshire and the Humber Department* Service Office 2002-03 Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gas 30,816 146,647 14,820 and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the Electricity 50,655 855,735 66,119 total cost to the public purse of the proposed Yorkshire and Humber Carbon Capture, Transportation and 2003-04 Storage Project. [113405] Gas 31,830 182,345 9,927 Charles Hendry: I have made no estimate of the Electricity 66,285 944,107 66,486 total cost to the public purse involved in the proposed Yorkshire and Humber Carbon Capture, Transportation 2004-05 and Storage Project. The project may feature in Gas 42,989 206,643 16,500 proposals we expect to receive as part of the CCS Electricity 76,019 1,117,060 83,648 Commercialisation programme announced on 3 April 2012. If so, the level of public financial support 2005-06 required for these projects will be assessed as part of that process. Gas 34,736 269,272 18,162 Electricity 130,947 1,484,482 135,177 Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has made of 2006-07 the security and stability of the technology involved in Gas 13,025 253,063 29,524 the proposed Yorkshire and Humber Carbon Capture, Electricity 149,533 1,436,411 397,585 Transportation and Storage pipeline project. [113407]

2007-08 Charles Hendry: I have made no estimate of the security and stability of the pipeline involved in Gas 5,031 202,443 18,334 the proposed Yorkshire and Humber Carbon Electricity 163,359 1,433,220 168,497 Capture, Transportation and Storage Project. The project may feature in proposals we expect to receive 2008-09 as part of the CCS Commercialisation programme Gas 6,603 329,818 48,116 announced on 3 April 2012. If so, the technical Electricity 305,042 1,721,698 243,728 feasibility of these projects will be assessed as part of that process. 2009-10 Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Gas 16,486 234,296 24,909 and Climate Change how much carbon dioxide will be Electricity 272,563 2,094,175 284,350 prevented from entering the atmosphere as a result of the proposed Yorkshire and Humber Carbon Capture, 2010-11 Transportation and Storage Project on average each Gas 8,805 312,684 17,749 year; and what proportion of the UK annual carbon Electricity 262,125 1,289,765 205,171 dioxide emission this represents. [113408] 167W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 168W

Charles Hendry: Individual developers of potential Stephen Metcalfe: To ask the Secretary of State for CCS projects are responsible for quantifying this Energy and Climate Change what approaches information. The developer’s website contains further PricewaterhouseCoopers have made to the information about the potential for this project to capture Government for financial assistance in securing the and store carbon dioxide future of the Coryton Oil Refinery; and if he will make www.ccshumber.co.uk a statement. [113246] It suggests the potential to save tens of millions of Charles Hendry: The administrators of Coryton Oil tonnes of carbon dioxide every year. Refinery made a formal representation to the Department on 15 May 2012 in respect of the provision of Government Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy assistance for one option relating to Coryton Oil Refinery. and Climate Change what studies he has commissioned We understand that this was one of a range of options on the possible effects on marine life of the storage of the administrators were considering at the time. These carbon in the seabed by the Yorkshire and Humber representations are necessarily commercially confidential. Carbon Capture, Transportation and Storage pipeline project. [113409] Energy: Finance Charles Hendry: None. As part of the process of securing the necessary permits to complete the project Laura Sandys: To ask the Secretary of State for the developer will have to demonstrate that there will be Energy and Climate Change if he will publish the total no significant adverse impact on marine life. value of (a) subsidies, (b) tax incentives and (c) capital allowances to support (i) oil, (ii) gas, (iii) wind, Mr Knight: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy (iv) solar, (v) biomass, (vi) nuclear and (vii) and Climate Change whether he plans to take any hydroelectric energy. [113702] additional steps to ensure the prevention of carbon dioxide leaks from the proposed Yorkshire and Gregory Barker: The following table shows the total Humber Carbon Capture, Transportation and Storage amount paid by technology under renewables obligation Project following the leaks in the Netherlands at Berkel from 2003-04 (the year of commencement) to 2010-11 en Rodenrijs in 2008. [113410] (the last year for which data are available).

Technology £ million (real 2012-13 prices) Charles Hendry: The pipeline operator has a legal responsibility to take all reasonable steps, and introduce Wind 2,921 appropriate measures, to ensure that the pipeline is Solar 1 designed, constructed and operated safely.The Environment Biomass1 1,667 Agency are responsible for monitoring that the risks to Hydroelectric 1,037 the environment from the pipeline are assessed by the 1 This includes co-firing of biomass with fossil fuel, biomass using an advanced conversion technologies, co-firing of energy crops, dedicated biomass, dedicated pipeline operator and that suitable controls are put in biomass with combined heat and power (CUP), dedicated energy crops, dedicated place. The Health and Safety Executive (HSE) will energy crops with CHP. oversee that the health and safety risks to people from For the period 1 April 2010 to 31 December 2011, a these work activities are addressed by enforcing the total of £80,748,750.10 was paid for the electricity general duties of the Pipelines Safety Regulations 1996. generated by all the technologies under the Feed-in Tariffs (FITs) scheme. We do not have this information Coryton Refinery broken down by technology. There are no subsidies for oil and gas, and no subsidies Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for for nuclear. Energy and Climate Change what assessment he has The Department does not hold information on the made of the implications of recent developments in the total value of tax incentives or capital allowances. I processing of crude oil at the Coryton refinery for (a) refer the Member to Her Majesty’s Treasury for this the competitiveness of the UK and (b) the information. effectiveness of the supply chain in the oil, gas and petroleum industries; and what discussions he has had Energy: Prices with the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on this matter. [110115] Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the oral Charles Hendry: It is disappointing that a buyer has answer of 16 May 2012, Official Report, column 563, not yet been found for the Coryton refinery. This reflects on energy bills, what protection in addition to that a general overcapacity in the European refining sector. provided by the Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 An assessment of the economic impact on the area has consumers will have following the deal secured with the been commissioned by a task force set up by Thurrock big six energy companies. [113432] council. On the supply chain, the south east is served by other supply points that enable suppliers to develop and Charles Hendry: The agreements secured by the Deputy implement existing contingency plans to maintain their Prime Minister with each of the major energy suppliers supply operations. are voluntary and do not affect statutory protections. The Department has kept in regular contact with the One of the key aims of each agreement is to ensure Department for Business, Innovation and Skills about suppliers are taking more proactive steps to help customers developments at the refinery. to be on the best tariff for them. 169W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 170W

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Gregory Barker: Provisional figures for imports of Energy and Climate Change with reference to natural gas both piped and shipped to the UK in 2011 paragraph three on his Department’s consultation on a are contained in the following table. proposed new power for Ofgem to compel regulated energy businesses to provide redress to consumers, Country what estimate his Department has made of the number (a) (b) (d) (e) Other of consumers who have taken individual action in the Russia Norway (c) Qatar Algeria sources courts against their energy supplier in the latest period Gigawatt ~0 244,159 230,618 2,647 100,536 for which figures are available. [113436] hours Percentage ~0 42.2 39.9 0.5 17.4 Charles Hendry: Consumers who are dissatisfied with their energy company’s response to their complaint can The UK has not physically imported any gas directly refer the matter to the energy ombudsman. The ombudsman from Russia. Some Russian gas might exist in gas received 7,201 complaints about energy suppliers and imported from the Continent, but in negligible amounts. distributors in 2011-12. This figure is likely to be significantly Imports of natural gas by country are published on higher than the number of court actions brought by the Department of Energy and Climate Change’s website individuals against their energy supplier, given the greater at the following address: cost and complexity of pursuing such matters in the courts. http://www.decc.gov.uk/media/ viewfile.ashx?filetype=4&filepath=Statistics/source/gas/ Fuel Poverty et4_4.xls&minwidth=true

Tom Greatrex: To ask the Secretary of State for Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs Energy and Climate Change what recent estimate he has made of the number of households in (a) the UK, Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) each region of the UK, (c) each local authority in Energy and Climate Change pursuant to the answer of the UK and (d) each parliamentary constituency living 11 June 2012, Official Report, column 204W, on in fuel poverty. [114017] renewable energy feed-in tariffs, if he will make it his policy to seek parliamentary approval for any Gregory Barker: In 2010, the latest year for which agreement between his Department and relevant data is available, the number of households in the UK developers on comfort to support early investment in fuel poverty was estimated to be 4.75 million. The decisions. [113433] following table shows the figures for each region. Gregory Barker: The Draft Energy Bill 2012 contains Estimated number households in fuel Region poverty a number of provisions which would enable the Government to issue what are called “investment instruments” in London 331,000 advance of the regime for Contracts for Difference South East 401,000 (CfDs) being established. These provisions have been South West 342,000 put in place to allow the Department to offer comfort to West Midlands 485,000 developers of low carbon electricity generating projects East of England 381,000 that need to take final investment decisions ahead of East Midlands 341,000 the introduction of the electricity market reforms contained Yorkshire and the Humber 415,000 in the draft Bill. North West 601,000 The draft Bill specifies that the issue of an investment North East 238,000 instrument is subject to conditions, including that a Scotland 658,000 draft of the instrument has been laid before Parliament. Wales 332,000 The final issue of the investment instrument is of course Northern Ireland 297,000 subject to the enactment of the draft Bill. Estimates for local authorities and parliamentary The draft Bill also contains provisions enabling the constituencies for England can be found on the DECC Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change, the website: right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/statistics/ to make modifications to electricity supply licences or fuelpov_stats/regional/regional.aspx to make regulations by statutory instrument in connection For Scotland, estimates for local authority can be found with investment instruments. Both of these provisions here: would be subject to annulment in pursuance of a resolution http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Statistics/SHCS/LA0810 of either House of Parliament. Wales and Northern Ireland do not produce fuel poverty statistics at a local authority or constituency Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy level. and Climate Change what discussions he has had with private energy sector investors about the appropriate Natural Gas: Imports body to act as the counterparty for the feed-in tariffs with contracts for difference as set out in the draft Dan Byles: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy Energy Bill. [113977] and Climate Change what proportion of UK imports of natural gas, including liquefied natural gas, Charles Hendry: The Secretary of State for Energy originated from (a) Russia, (b) Norway, (c) Qatar, and Climate Change, the right hon. Member for Kingston (d) Algeria and (e) other sources in 2011. [113975] and Surbiton (Mr Davey), regularly meets with energy 171W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 172W sector stakeholders. As part of discussions on Electricity Typically the type of animal used would be mice. Market Reform, the counterparty arrangements under Information on the number of animals used for potency Contracts for Difference has been raised. testing of botulinum toxin for human use is not collected As the Government made clear when publishing the for statistical purposes so it is not possible to identify draft Energy Bill on 22 May 2012, we recognise that the number of animals used in testing a particular investors need robust counterparty arrangements to substance or product. Licences for this purpose typically invest under Contracts for Difference. Officials at DECC determine the amount of toxin in the substance to be have had detailed discussions with a wide variety of tested (the potency) through dilution assays. There is no industry stakeholders on both the current proposals agreed measurable unit of potency for botulinum toxin. and also an alternative model with a single counterparty. It can only be assessed as a function of its biological A final decision on which model to adopt will be effect on a living organism. Therefore the licences typically published in the autumn. would not specify the amount of toxin involved. Details of meetings between Ministers and external Animal Experiments: EU Law organisations are published quarterly on the departmental website at: Simon Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for the http://www.decc.gov.uk/en/content/cms/accesstoinform/ Home Department whether her Department plans to registers/ministermtgs/ministermtgs.aspx remove the ban on using stray cats and dogs in experiments in the transposition of European Union Directive 2010/63/EU. [113886] HOME DEPARTMENT Lynne Featherstone: I refer the hon. Member to the Abid Hussain answer given on 21 June 2012, Official Report, columns 1111-12W. Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the Crime Prevention Home Department whether (a) she and (b) Ministers in her Department have met Abid Hussain. [112969] Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: Home Office Ministers and officials Home Department what steps she plans to take to have meetings with a wide variety of international reduce crime amongst people who are homeless. partners, as well as organisations and individuals in the [112890] public and private sectors, as part of the process of policy development and delivery. As was the case with James Brokenshire: Police forces need to tackle crime previous administrations, it is not the Government’s in line with local priorities and there is no simple link practice to provide details of ail such meetings. between homelessness and crime. From November 2012 the election of police and crime commissioners will help Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for the drive down crime by making policing more accountable Home Department whether (a) she, (b) Ministers in and responsive to local needs and concerns. Police.uk her Department and (c) officials in her Department now provides the public with street-level information have given advice on the vetting of Abid Hussain to about crime to enable them to hold local policing teams Ministers of the Cabinet Office in relation to her to account. The Government has swept away central participation in official Government business. [112970] targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help free police officers to cut crime. At a national level, the creation of Damian Green: Neither the Secretary of State for the the National Crime Agency will make the UK a hostile Home Department, my right hon. Friend the Member environment for serious and organised criminality. for Maidenhead (Mrs May), Home Office Ministers or The Government has maintained funding for the officials have given advice on the vetting of Abid Hussain Homelessness Grant at 2010-11 levels with £400 million to Ministers of the Cabinet Office in relation to his over the next four years, and has announced an additional participation in official Government business. £70 million investment this year which will: protect vital front line services; enable local authorities to intervene Animal Experiments earlier and help people stay in their homes; ensure single homeless people get access to good housing advice; Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for and deliver improved hostel provision. the Home Department how many licences were issued for the animal testing of botulinium toxin in each year Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the since 1997; how many animals of each (a) breed and Home Department what steps she plans to take to (b) type were involved; and how much toxin was reduce crime amongst people who are unemployed. involved in each case. [113428] [112891]

Lynne Featherstone: Authority for the batch testing James Brokenshire: Police forces need to tackle crime of botulinum toxin under the Animals (Scientific in line with local priorities and there is no simple link Procedures) Act 1986 is not granted solely for that between unemployment and crime. From November purpose and would be included in licences granted for 2012 the election of police and crime commissioners the regulatory testing of various biological toxins. The will help drive down crime by making policing more number of licences issued each year for this purpose accountable and responsive to local needs and concerns. since 1997 is not held centrally and could be obtained Police.uk now provides the public with street-level only at disproportionate cost. information about crime to enable them to hold local 173W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 174W policing teams to account. The Government has swept officers to cut crime. At a national level, the creation of away central targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help the National Crime Agency will make the UK a hostile free police officers to cut crime. At a national level, the environment for serious and organised criminality. creation of the National Crime Agency will make the It is unlikely that most offenders with mental disorders UK a hostile environment for serious and organised offend primarily as a direct result of their disorder. It criminality. may however be a contributory factor and may also The Government is taking a number of steps to undermine an individual’s ability to engage with tackle unemployment. The YouthContract was introduced interventions which support rehabilitation and reduce in April 2012 to provide additional support, worth reoffending. We are committed to tackling the underlying almost £1 billion, to young unemployed people over the mental health and substance misuse issues that some next three years, and from March 2012, the Government offenders have. Our priority is to ensure that those with provided additional employment support for prison mental health problems within the criminal justice system leavers through the Work programme, immediately on are identified as early as possible, so that the right release from prison. interventions can be provided in the most appropriate setting. We are currently working with the Department Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the of Health and Ministry of Justice to develop liaison Home Department what steps she plans to take to and diversion services in police custody suites and at reduce crime amongst people who have a (a) numeracy courts for offenders with mental health issues and other level and (b) reading age below that expected of an vulnerabilities, and to test options for intensive, treatment 11 year old. [112892] based alternatives to custody. Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the James Brokenshire: Police forces need to tackle crime Home Department what steps she plans to take to in line with local priorities and from November 2012 reduce the number of crimes committed by people who the election of police and crime commissioners will help have used drugs in the previous year. [112894] drive down crime by making policing more accountable and responsive to local needs and concerns. Police.uk James Brokenshire: Police forces need to tackle crime now provides the public with street-level information in line with local priorities and from November 2012 about crime to enable them to hold local policing teams the election of police and crime commissioners will help to account. The Government has swept away central drive down crime by making policing more accountable targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help free police and responsive to local needs and concerns. Police.uk officers to cut crime. At a national level, the creation of now provides the public with street-level information the National Crime Agency will make the UK a hostile about crime to enable them to hold local policing teams environment for serious and organised criminality. to account. The Government has swept away central As part of our support to local partners to tackle targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help free police crime, we are working across Government to improve officers to cut crime. At a national level, the creation of life chances, education and employment outcomes. On the National Crime Agency will make the UK a hostile numeracy and literacy levels, the Government is aiming environment for serious and organised criminality. to ensure that: In relation specifically to drug misusing offenders, no child should leave school without the literacy and numeracy the Drug Interventions Programme (DIP) is a centrally skills to succeed; funded crime reduction programme which has been young people held in the secure estate have access to a full day running since 2003. The programme provides interventions of education and constructive activity. Their literacy and numeracy for drug misusing offenders across England and Wales levels are assessed on entry and they receive an individual learning at relevant points during their contact with the criminal plan to address their learning needs whilst in custody; and justice system, including police custody, court, prison, those who have already offended are given the skills they will and probation. need, including the basic skills of maths and English, to find and keep jobs on release or while serving a community sentence. Home Office funding for the DIP currently pays for police staff to carry out drug testing to identify drug In addition, the Government is continuing to fund misusing offenders among those arrested or charged, basic English and maths courses for adults who lack and ensure they seek support. In addition, the Home these skills, enabling them to gain the qualifications that Office and Department of Health jointly provide funding they need for employment and progression. to local areas for the employment of drug workers to assess and refer people into the appropriate treatment Mr Llwyd: To ask the Secretary of State for the and recovery services. The programme managed nearly Home Department what steps she plans to take to 63,000 individuals into treatment and recovery services reduce crime amongst people who have a psychiatric in England and Wales in 2010-11, and research has disorder. [112893] shown significant reductions in offending by individuals in contact with the programme. James Brokenshire: Police forces need to tackle crime in line with local priorities and from November 2012 Crime Prevention: EU Action the election of police and crime commissioners will help drive down crime by making policing more accountable Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home and responsive to local needs and concerns. Police.uk Department how the European Crime Prevention now provides the public with street-level information Network established under EU Council Decision about crime to enable them to hold local policing teams 2009/902/JHA interacts with the police forces of to account. The Government has swept away central England and Wales; and what assessment her targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help free police Department has made of its effectiveness. [113327] 175W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 176W

Nick Herbert [holding answer 25 June 2012]: It is not Damian Green: Since 2002 the Home Office has in the possible to quantify exactly the interaction by police main used the central Government energy frameworks forces in England and Wales in the activities of the for its gas and electricity needs. The Department has European Crime Prevention Network (EUCPN) because switched suppliers on some occasions in moving additional those interactions take place primarily through police buildings into these frameworks. forces’ uploading information to a public access website. The UK must decide, no later than 31 May 2014, Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for the whether to accept full European Court of Justice jurisdiction Home Department how much her Department spent over those EU police and criminal justice measures on (a) gas and (b) electricity bills in each of the last 10 adopted before 1 December 2009 which have not been years. [113497] amended or replaced. This measure falls within the scope of that decision and will be reviewed accordingly. Damian Green: The Home Office has spent the following on gas and electricity bills in each of the last 10 years: Crime: British Overseas Territories £ million Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for Commodity the Home Department whether (a) she and (b) her Gas Electricity officials have had discussions with UK police forces on assessing and responding to drug crime and violent 2003-04 0.58 2.84 crime in the overseas territories; and if she will make a 2004-05 0.79 3.62 statement. [112869] 2005-06 1.16 4.73 2006-07 2.13 7.91 Nick Herbert [holding answer 2 June 2012]: Much of 2007-08 0.86 8.11 the Home Office assistance to the Overseas Territories 2008-09 4.46 11.15 (OTs) is based on requests from them. The Home Office 2009-10 3.66 11.00 has not been involved in discussions with UK police 2010-11 2.63 9.21 forces specifically on assessing or responding to drug 2011-12 2.38 9.65 and violent crime in Overseas Territories (OTs) and does not commission such assistance. The Home Office has, however, authorised overseas deployments by serving Essex Police Authority police officers (under s.26 of the Police Act 1996) in response to various ad hoc requests by OTs for assistance. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Annex A of The Overseas Territories and the Home Home Department (1) what guidance Essex Police Office paper: Authority issues to its employees on the booking of (a) www.homeoffice.gov.uk inland and (b) overseas travel for official business; and provides a list of examples of such support provided if she will make a statement; [113097] during 2010 and 2011. The Government will shortly (2) how many and which files were sent to the publish a White Paper entitled The Overseas Territories— National Archives by Essex Police Authority in each of Security, Success and Sustainability and this covers UK the last 10 years; [113100] assistance of and partnership with the OTs, including in (3) how many people employed by Essex Police relation to crime. Authority visited (a) the US and (b) the EU on Detainees: Compensation official business in each of the last three years; and at what cost to the public purse in each case. [113107] Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department (1) how many compensation claims Nick Herbert: The issues raised in these questions are for wrongful detention were (a) made and (b) granted all matters for Essex Police Authority to address. in each year from 1997 to 2011; [113273] (2) how many compensation claims for wrongful Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the detention have been (a) made and (b) granted in 2012 Home Department on what date each property (a) to date; [113275] owned and (b) leased by Essex Police Authority was occupied by Essex Police Authority; and what the (3) how many compensation claims for wrongful estimated monetary value is of each such property. detention were (a) made and (b) granted in 2011-12. [113101] [113274]

Damian Green: In order to answer this question the Nick Herbert: This information is not collected centrally. UK Border Agency would need to analyse a large Decisions about the most effective use of available volume of electronic records, case and litigation files resources, including decisions about what property to which would incur a disproportionate cost. buy or lease and the arrangements for occupying such property, are for the chief constable and police authority Energy to take locally.

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether her Department switched Home Department (1) how much it cost to run Essex its (a) gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of the last Police Authority in each of the last three years; 10 years. [113465] [113106] 177W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 178W

(2) how much was spent by Essex Police Authority Government Procurement Card on the use of taxis in each of the last five years; and whether Essex Police Authority issues guidance on the Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for the use of taxis by employees; [113149] Home Department on which dates her Department has (3) how much was spent by Essex Police Authority published Government procurement card spending on entertainment in each of the last 10 years. [113150] over £500 since May 2010. [113364]

Nick Herbert: This information is not collected centrally. Damian Green: The Home Office has published These are matters for the police authority to decide Government procurement card spending over £500 on locally. its website every month since April 2011 on the following dates: Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the 1. April 2011 data published 30 June 2011 Home Department how many (a) males and (b) 2. May 2011 data published 29 July 2011 females were (i) arrested and (ii) prosecuted for an 3. June 2011 data published 31 August 2011 offence committed on premises occupied by Essex 4. July 2011 data published 30 September 2011 Police Authority in each of the last five years for which information is available; how many were (A) convicted 5. August 2011 data published 31 October 2011 and (B) acquitted in each case; and if she will make a 6. September 2011 data published 30 November 2011 statement. [113241] 7. October 2011 data published 30 December 2011 8. November 2011 data published 31 January 2012 Nick Herbert: The information requested is not collected 9. December 2011 data published 29 February 2012 centrally. 10. January 2012 data published 30 March 2012 11. February 2012 data published 30 April 2012 Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how much was paid in Immigration compensation by Essex Police Authority in each of the last five years for which information is available; to Mr Spellar: To ask the Secretary of State for the whom; for what reason in each case; and if she will Home Department what assessment her Department make a statement. [113242] has made of the abuse by citizens of non-EU member states of the right of entry into the UK for citizens Nick Herbert: This is a matter for Essex Police Authority. from accession states. [113548]

Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the Damian Green: In 2011 border force officers detected Home Department how many people employed by 433 non-EU citizens who attempted to gain entry to the Essex Police Authority were eligible for performance UK by falsely presenting themselves as a national of an bonuses and special bonuses at each grade in each of Accession state with a right of entry. In these cases the the last three years; how many people received each non-EU citizen presented a forged document or type of bonus at each grade in each such year; what the impersonated the holder of a genuine document issued average payment was for each type of bonus; and what by an Accession state. the maximum payment was for each type of bonus at There is also evidence to suggest that the free movement each grade. [113102] rights of Accession state nationals are being abused through marriages of conveniences. In 2011 the UK Nick Herbert: This information is not collected centrally. Border Agency received 579 reports from registrars of These are matters for the Police Authority. suspected marriages of convenience involving Accession nationals marrying third country nationals. Mr Amess: To ask the Secretary of State for the The Government are committed to protecting free Home Department how many temporary workers were movement rights from fraud and abuse and is taking employed by Essex Police Authority in each of the last action domestically and at the EU-level to tackle the five years; and what the total cost to the public purse problem. was of such staff in each year. [113103] Immigration Controls Nick Herbert: This is a matter for Essex Police Authority. Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for the Europol Home Department what training staff operating passport and security desks at sea and airports Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home undertake on customer-friendly attitudes; whether Department how many requests to (a) initiate, (b) performance in this area is monitored; and whether conduct and (c) co-ordinate investigations the UK refresher training sessions are undertaken. [113642] received from Europol pursuant to Article 7 of EU Council Decision 2009/371/JHA in each year since Damian Green: Border Force constantly strives to 2009; and how many of those requests resulted in an provide a high standard of customer service at the investigation. [113324] border. Officers within Border Force are provided with a range of customer service training including Nick Herbert [holding answer 25 June 2012]: Records Exceeding Customer Expectations—Aimed at all officers; covers of the information requested are not held centrally. ways to improve the quality of the customer service provided; 179W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 180W

Proud to Serve and Protect—Professional Service—Aimed at Damian Green: Legal fees incurred by the Government all officers; raises awareness of how the behaviour of an officer to deport Abu Qatada are £0.82 million up to 30 April working at the border can impact on the customer experience; 2012. The case is ongoing, and so further costs are likely Proud to Serve and Protect—BF Service Style—Aimed at all to be incurred. officers; covers the standard for face to face interaction with our public; Home Office spend on legal fees over the last 10 years Sustaining Excellent Customer Service—Aimed at managers; is as follows: provides tools to reinforce and recognise good customer service Legal fees plus address problem situations; £ million First Impressions Count—Aimed at all officers; places emphasis on the important role officers’ will play in the overall Olympic 2003-04 12.27 and Paralympic experience, with particular focus on the Paralympics. 2004-05 15.11 Monitoring of performance, including observing the 2005-06 21.11 manner in which individual officers deal with the public, 2006-07 27.20 is the responsibility of team leaders. 2007-08 29.26 Refresher training on customer service is being provided 2008-09 28.95 by the provision to all officers of the First Impressions 2009-10 29.76 Count package. 2010-11 44.18 2011-12 50.54 Immigration: Merseyside

Mr Woodward: To ask the Secretary of State for the Licensing Laws: Birmingham Home Department how many applications from people of non-European Economic Area nationality applying for leave to enter the UK on the basis of their family Shabana Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State for relationship with a British citizen or a person settled in the Home Department what information her the UK were sponsored by someone living in St Helens Department holds on the number of alcohol licences South and Whiston constituency in each of the last five revoked in (a) Birmingham, Ladywood constituency years. [113411] and (b) Birmingham city council area since the coming into force of the Licensing Act 2003. [113056] Damian Green: The following table provides the number of entry clearance applications from non-EU nationals James Brokenshire: Alcohol licensing statistics are applying for leave to enter on the basis of their family not collected by constituency, so they cannot be broken relationship with a British citizen or a person settled in down to the requested level. The latest available information the UK, and where the sponsor of these applications is relates to the number of premises licences, club premises someone living in the St Helens South and Whiston certificates and personal licences surrendered, lapsed, constituency in the last five years. revoked, forfeited, suspended or withdrawn within Birmingham licensing authority as a whole between Applications 1 April 2006 and 31 March 2010.

2007 206 These figures can be seen within the following tables. 2008 209 They include all such authorisations for licensable activities 2009 165 under the Licensing Act 2003 covering the licensing 2010 155 authority. 2011 151 Table 1: Premises licences surrendered, lapsed, suspended by a court, closure Total 886 notice, Birmingham licensing authority, 2006-07 to 2009-10 Financial Suspended Closure The above data is based on management information. year Surrendered1 Lapsed2 by a court3 notice4 It is provisional and subject to change. The data relates 2006-07 30 6 0 5— to applications where the sponsor postcode begins with 2007-08 7 5 0 0 WA10 or L35. 2008-09 204 35 0 0 Information Officers 2009-10 13 12 0 0 1 Where a premises licence is surrendered under section 28 of the Licensing Act Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2003. 2 Where a premises licence has lapsed due to the death, incapacity, insolvency Home Department how much press officers in her etc. of the licence holder, as set out under section 27 of the Licensing Act 2003. Department, its agencies and arm’s length bodies Excludes instances where a premises licence was in effect for a limited period, claimed in reimbursable expenses since May 2010. but the period has since expired (e.g. one-off events). 3 Where a premises licence is suspended by a court, under section 147B( 1) of [112990] the Licensing Act 2003 (as amended by the Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006) for the sale or supply of alcohol, following an offence of persistently selling to Damian Green [holding answer 21 June 2012]: A underage children. total value of £54,037.32 was claimed and paid in 4 Where a premises is prohibited from selling alcohol for 48 hours following a closure notice under s.169A. reimbursable expenses between May 2010 and 19 June 5 Unknown (not collected in 2006-07). 2012. Legal Costs Table 2: Club premises certificates surrendered, lapsed, withdrawn, Birmingham licensing authority, 2006-07 to 2009-10 1 2 3 Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Financial year Surrendered Lapsed Withdrawn the Home Department how much her Department has 2006-072 00 0 spent on legal fees for (a) Abu Qatada and (b) her 2007-08 1 0 0 Department since 2002. [113429] 2008-09 11 0 0 181W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 182W

Table 2: Club premises certificates surrendered, lapsed, withdrawn, Birmingham Committee of the Olympic and Paralympic games licensing authority, 2006-07 to 2009-10 (LOCOG) will be operating a collection and return 1 2 3 Financial year Surrendered Lapsed Withdrawn service between the ports and the Royal Artillery 2009-10 9 0 0 Barracks for firearms. Border force officers, along 1 Where a club premises certificate is surrendered under section 81(3) of the with the Metropolitan Police Service, SO19—specialist Licensing Act 2003. firearms command responsible for issuing British 2 Where a club premises certificate has lapsed because it had effect for a limited period, but that period has since expired. visitors firearms permits, will be deployed to the 3 Where a club premises certificate is withdrawn under section 90 of the Royal Artillery Barracks to ensure that regulatory Licensing Act 2003. requirements and re-export of firearms are Table 3: Personal licences surrendered, revoked, forfeited, suspended by a court, completed. Birmingham Licensing Authority, 2006-07 to 2009-10 Financial Suspended year Surrendered1 Revoked2 Forfeited3 by a court4 Organised Crime: British Overseas Territories 2006-07 2 0 0 0 2007-08 5 0 0 0 Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for 2008-09 13 0 1 0 the Home Department what assessment she has made 2009-10 4 0 1 0 of the presence of organised crime in each of the 1 Where a personal licence is surrendered under section 116 of the Licensing Act overseas territories; and if she will make a statement. 2003. [112866] 2 Where a personal licence is revoked under section 124 of the Licensing Act 2003. 3 Where a personal licence has been forfeited following a court order under Nick Herbert [holding answer 25 June 2012]: The section 129 of the Licensing Act 2003 in the time period specified (and where that order has not been suspended, pending an appeal under sections 129(4) or Overseas Territories and the Home Office paper: 130 of the Licensing Act 2003). www.homeoffice.gov.uk 4 Where a personal licence is suspended following a court order under section 129 of the Licensing Act 2003 in the time period specified (and where that order provides an overview of some of the assistance provided has not been suspended, pending an appeal under sections 129(4) or 130 of the by the Home Office to the Overseas Territories (OTs). A Licensing Act 2003). number of Government agencies, including the Serious Olympic Games 2012 Organised Crime Agency (SOCA), are well positioned to liaise with and support each OT to protect itself from Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for the the threat of organised crime. In delivering Local to Home Department what assessment she has made of Global, the Government’s organised crime strategy, the effect secondments to the UK Border Force during SOCA liaises regularly with the Caribbean OTs and the London 2012 Olympics will have on the detection supports them with training, equipment and staffing of illegal drugs at ports. [113276] resources to combat a broad spectrum of serious and organised crime impacting upon the region and potentially Damian Green: The secondments to Border Force the UK. during the London 2012 Olympic period will help it to The Government will also shortly publish a White maintain all border security activity, including the detection Paper entitled The Overseas Territories—Security, of illegal drugs at ports. Success and Sustainability which covers UK assistance of, and partnership with, the OTs, including in relation Olympic Games 2012 to crime. Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether foreign law enforcement Police agents and other foreign nationals with firearms will be allowed to enter the UK during the London 2012 Olympics; and what steps she plans to take to ensure Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many police officers have been such firearms are tracked. [113277] recruited in the (a) South Yorkshire, (b) Damian Green: Foreign law enforcement agents (known Northumberland, (c) Merseyside and (d) as in flight security officers or federal air marshals or Metropolitan police since May 2010. [113297] sky marshals) are not permitted to hold firearms in the United Kingdom. Border force will continue to secure Nick Herbert [holding answer 25 June 2012]: The and retain control of firearms being brought to the UK number of police officers that have been recruited in the by foreign law enforcement agents. South Yorkshire, Northumbria, Merseyside and Metropolitan police for 2010-11 are shown within the The Government remains committed to delivering a following table: safe and secure Olympic games in 2012, and lead Police officer joiners for South Yorkshire, Northumbria, Merseyside and responsibility for this rests with the police who have 1,2 substantial experience of dealing with public order and Metropolitan police for 2010-11 security at major events. The rules governing the presence Joiners of foreign security and protection teams at the games South Yorkshire 102 are the same as at any time. Northumbria 54 Foreign national games family members (GFM) Merseyside 2 competing in the Olympic and Paralympic Metropolitan police 432 shooting events will be given the appropriate authority 1 This table contain full-time equivalent figures that have been rounded to the nearest whole number. to hold firearms. All firearms will be held in the Royal 2 Figures include transfers from other England and Wales forces but does not Artillery Barracks in the UK. The London Organising include officers returning after a period of secondment. 183W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 184W

Police: Information and Communications Technology Procurement Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for the Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many contracts issued by her Home Department (1) which police authorities had Department were awarded to small and medium-sized agreed to participate in the new police ICT company as enterprises in 2011-12; what proportion that figure at 18 June 2012; [113383] represents of all contracts let; and what the monetary (2) by what date she expects the new police ICT value was of such contracts. [113962] company to be established. [113384] Damian Green: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer I Nick Herbert: We plan to update Parliament on the gave on 19 June 2012, Official Report, column 877W. creation of the company shortly. UK Border Force Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for Police: Overtime the Home Department what her policy is on the establishment of a national command centre by the Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for the UK Border Force. [113278] Home Department how much each police force spent Damian Green: There are no plans to establish a on overtime for (a) police officers, (b) police Border Force national command and control centre. community support officers and (c) police staff in Border Force currently ensures that appropriate each of the last 10 financial years. [113224] arrangements for managing deployment and incidents are in place, and the efficacy of such arrangements is Nick Herbert [holding answer 25 June 2012]: This kept under review. data is available on the website of the Chartered Institute Young Offenders: Reoffenders of Public Finance Accountants at: www.cipfastats.net Kate Green: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many arrests at the prison gate Police: Pay there were of people just released from prison aged 25 years and under in each of the last five years. [113046] Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what assessment she has made of Nick Herbert: The information requested is not available the effects of the freeze of incremental pay of police centrally. officers with over three years of service. [113077] EDUCATION Nick Herbert [holding answer 21 June 2012]: A two-year Adoption: Ethnic Groups freeze of incremental progression was among the recommendations made by the Police Arbitration Tribunal Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for (PAT) in January. The Secretary of State for the Home Education pursuant to the answer of 11 June 2012, Department, my right hon. Friend the Member for Official Report, column 364W, on adoption: ethnic Maidenhead (Mrs May), considered the tribunal’s findings groups, for what reason his Department does not very carefully, in line with her statutory responsibilities. collect information on the ethnicity of adopters. She announced on 30 January that she had decided to [112708] accept the PAT’s recommendation. I refer the hon. Member to her statement of 30 January 2012, Official Tim Loughton: All children who ceased to be looked Report, column 31WS. after at some point during the year, on the granting of an adoption order, will have been placed with their Prisoners: Repatriation adoptive parents before the making of the adoption order. The Department collects information from local authorities on the number of adopters, their gender and Nadine Dorries: To ask the Secretary of State for the relationship status. The collection of data on adopters Home Department (1) what steps her Department is was intended to monitor the implementation of the taking to increase the number of countries to which Adoption and Children Act 2002 and was limited to foreign national offenders can be removed; [113533] avoid a large data burden upon local authorities and the (2) with reference to section 21 of the Coalition data collection process. However, Ofsted are now collecting agreement, to how many more countries the UK can information on the ethnicity of adopters under their now deport foreign criminals than in 2010. [113686] annual adoption collection, and therefore in future this information will be available to the Department. Damian Green: There are no countries to which, as a Young People: Carers matter of immigration policy, the UK Border Agency cannot remove foreign national offenders. However, Julian Sturdy: To ask the Secretary of State for there may be some countries where it is difficult to make Education what support his Department has made enforced removals, or where there are legal barriers that available to young carers since 2010. [112745] prevent removal from taking place. Tim Loughton: Supporting carers, including young The UK Border Agency continues to work in partnership carers is a priority for this Government. We want young with the officials of foreign Governments to overcome carers to be healthy, achieve and have the same opportunities any barriers faced in enforced removals. as other children. 185W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 186W

That is why within six months of the general election We can estimate the number and proportion of 16-18 we published the revised HMG Carers Strategy ‘Recognised, year olds NEET at a regional level using data collected valued and supported: Next Steps for the Carers Strategy’. by local authorities. The proportion of 16-18 year olds The Department made three commitments in that strategy who were NEET in each region in England at the end of all of which have now been implemented: to make a 2011 (November 2011-January 2012 average) is shown new Early Intervention Grant available to local in the following table. Note that due to methodological Government; to work with the Department for Business, differences, estimates for young people NEET based on Innovation and Skills to develop the first all-age careers local authority data tend to be lower than the official service; and to launch a new national campaign to help estimates for NEET in the SFR. turn around the lives of families with multiple problems— Proportion of 16-18 year olds NEET by region now being lead by the troubled families team in the Percentage Department for Communities and Local Government. In addition to this work the Department for Education North East 8.8 is also grant funding the Children’s Society and Carers North West 7.1 Trust £1.5 million over two years to work with local Yorkshire and Humber 7.1 authorities and voluntary and community organisations East Midlands 5.4 to: encourage children’s and adult services to work West Midlands 6.2 more closely together and adopt ‘whole family’ approaches South West 5.7 to supporting young carers; and identify and share East of England 6.0 existing evidence based good practice, tools and resources London 4.5 for the identification and support of young carers. South East 5.8 England 6.1 To support this work further the Department for Source: Education (DFE) has also worked with the Department Local authority data (CCIS) of Health and the National Young Carers Coalition to Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for create a ‘Healthy Schools’ e-learning module for teachers Education how much funding is available through the and school staff to enable them to better identify and Youth Contract specifically to help young people not in support young carers. It is available on the Children’s education, employment or training in the north-east; Society website: and if he will make a statement. [113110] http://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/sites/default/files/Young- Carers-Web-Pub-v13/player.html Tim Loughton: As part of the Youth Contract, we To support the spread of effective practise, we have will provide additional support for 16 to 17-year-olds also published ‘Turning around the lives of families who are not in education, employment or training and with multiple problems—an evaluation of the Family have low levels of qualifications. We expect provision to and YoungCarer Pathfinders Programme’. This evaluation be available to young people from September and have report is based on findings from 18 local authorities confirmed funding until the end of 2014-15. that have been developing innovative local practice by For the north-east region, excluding Newcastle getting children’s and adult services to work effectively and Gateshead local authorities, we have set an together alongside the voluntary sector and schools to indicative contract amount of £6,494,447 over that support young carers. The report is available at: period. We also intend to devolve £577,695 directly to https://www.education.gov.uk/publications/RSG/ Newcastle and Gateshead local authorities in each of publicationDetail/Page1/DFE-RR154 the next three years to allow them to procure tailored Last year following Carers Week I wrote to every MP local support for young people as part of our City and every director of children’s services in England to Deals. urge them to continue to champion the cause of young carers in their area and ensure they have access to the support services they require. DEFENCE 16 Air Assault Brigade

Young People: North East Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what the authorised personnel strength was of 16 Air Assault Brigade on (a) 31 May 2010 and (b) Alex Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State for 31 May 2012; and what it will be once those named in Education what comparative assessment he has made June 2012 as being made redundant have left HM of the proportion of young people in the North East Armed Forces. [113646] and other regions who are not in education, employment and training. [113109] Nick Harvey: The most recent data available shows that as at 1 April 2012 the authorised establishment for Tim Loughton: Official estimates of the number and 16 Air Assault Brigade was 7,160 personnel. proportion of 16-18 year olds not in education, employment Details of authorised unit personnel establishments or training (NEET) in England are published by the are not maintained retrospectively and are not held in Department in a statistical first release (SFR) each June central records. and can be found on the Department’s website: It is not possible to say what the future establishment http://www.education.gov.uk/rsgateway/DB/SFR/s001011/ of the Brigade will be as this is dependent on the index.shtml outcome of the Army’s study into its future structure However, these estimates cannot be broken down to which will be announced as soon as decisions have been regional level. made. 187W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 188W

Afghanistan Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: I refer the right hon. Member to the statement made by the Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Secretary of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend the Defence how many attacks made by unmanned air Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond), vehicles (UAVs) have taken place in Afghanistan in the on 10 May 2012, Official Report, columns 140-42. last three years; where each such UAV was made; and Announcing the decision to switch the planned order how many civilian casualties there were as a result of for Joint Strike Fighter aircraft from Carrier Varriant to each attack. [113096] Short-take-off and Vertical Landing, he made clear that a focus on joint maritime task groups ensuring carrier availability, rather than cross-deck operations is the Nick Harvey: In the last three years to 19 June 2012, appropriate route to optimising alliance capabilities. 176 strikes have been carried out by UK Reaper unmanned air vehicles (UAV) in Afghanistan. Reaper is the only Armed Forces: Complaints UK UAV which carries weapons. I cannot comment on UAVs or strikes by other nations. Reaper is acquired, Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for supported and armed through the US government. The Defence what the time limits are for investigating a prime contractor to the US government for the construction service redress of complaint at the first level of of Reaper is General Atomics—Aeronautical Systems investigation. [113831] Inc., based in California. The UK takes every reasonable measure to avoid civilian casualties. I am aware of only Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: Service one incident where individuals not classified as insurgents complaints are categorised in accordance with their were killed by a UK Reaper UAV. The incident took complexity. The time limit for less complex complaints place on 25 March 2011 and resulted in the death of is set at 60 days for the first level, and for more complex four civilians in addition to two insurgents. An International complaints, it is set at 120 days. Security Assistance Force (ISAF) investigation was carried out and concluded that the actions of the Reaper crew Armed Forces: Discrimination had been in accordance with extant procedures and ISAF rules of engagement. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what recent discussions Ministers in his Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Department have had with insurers on tackling Defence if he will publish documents held by his discrimination against veterans in the workplace; and Department relating to the investigation into a British what the outcome was of any such discussions. [113065] drone strike that led to Afghan civilian fatalities on 25 March 2011; and if he will make a statement. Mr Robathan [holding answer 21 June 2012]: The [113128] Ministry of Defence encourages all employers to value the skills and experience which former service personnel Nick Harvey: Any incident involving civilian casualties can bring to the workplace. is a matter of deep regret and we take every possible measure to avoid such incidents. We have strict procedures, Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for frequently updated in the light of experience, intended Defence what recent discussions Ministers in his both to minimise the risk of casualties occurring and to Department have had with (a) mobile telephone investigate any alleged incidents. The incident of 25 March suppliers and (b) mortgage lenders on tackling 2011 is the only one in which civilian fatalities are discrimination against service people; and what the known to have resulted from a UK Reaper strike. A UK outcome was of any such discussions. [113066] Reaper, operating in support of International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) forces, was tasked to engage Mr Robathan [holding answer 21 June 2012]: The and destroy two pick-up trucks. The strike resulted in Government has worked closely with credit reference the deaths of two insurgents and the destruction of a agencies and other partners, including the Royal Mail, significant quantity of explosives being carried on the to help us to improve financial capability among service trucks. Sadly, four Afghan civilians were also killed and personnel and to address the difficulties faced by those a further two Afghan civilians were injured. A joint with a history of rapidly changing or British Forces ISAF-Afghan investigation was conducted to establish Post Office (BFPO) addresses. Through the Home Finance if any lessons could be learned or if errors in operational Forum, work has been undertaken to introduce a new procedures could be identified. The report concluded system for handling credit rating assessments for those that the actions of the Reaper crew had been in accordance with a BFPO address. with ISAF procedures and rules of engagement. I am We have agreement with The UK Cards Association, withholding the report as its disclosure would, or would the British Bankers’ Association, the Finance and Leasing be likely to prejudice the capability, effectiveness or Association the Council of Mortgage Lenders and the security of the armed forces. Building Societies Association for them to take account of the circumstances of service personnel in order to Aircraft Carriers avoid disadvantage. Service personnel facing credit rating difficulties because Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for of periods of time spent abroad should approach Defence what assessment he has made of the effect of prospective mortgage lenders and/or prospective landlords the decision not to fit catapult and arrestor technology or letting agents to instruct their credit reference checking to Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers on the agencies to undertake a manual check of the individual’s prospects for Joint Maritime Task Groups. [113304] circumstances, rather than an automated one. 189W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 190W

A technical solution has been developed by the BFPO, Royal Regiment of Scotland, (viii) 1st Battalion, The in conjunction with Royal Mail, which will allow the Royal Irish Regiment, (ix) 2nd Battalion, The Royal allocation of a ’shadow postcode’ against a BFPO Welsh, (x) 1st Battalion, Irish Guards, (xi) address. As well as helping to overcome credit rating 4th Battalion, The Rifles Regiment, (xii) 2nd Royal difficulties for those with periods of living abroad, this Tank Regiment, (xiii) The Royal Highland Fusiliers, will better enable individuals to access online retail and 2nd Battalion The Royal Regiment of Scotland, (xiv) other financial services and will allow the completion of 1st Battalion, Scots Guards, (xv) 1st Battalion, The Government online forms. The new BFPO shadow Duke of Lancaster’s Regiment, (xvi) Royal Dragoon postcodes were released in April 2012. Guards, (xvii) 1st Battalion, The Mercian Regiment, (xviii) Queen’s Royal Lancers, (xix) 1st Battalion, Armed Forces: Harassment (Vikings), The Royal Anglian Regiment, (xx) 3rd Battalion, The Yorkshire Regiment, (xxi) The Welsh Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Guards, (xxii) King’s Royal Hussars, (xxiii) Light Defence how much his Department spent on fees for Dragoons, (xxiv) 1st Royal Tank Regiment, (xxv) 1st civilian harassment case officers investigating service Battalion, The Grenadier Guards, (xxvi) 1st Battalion, redress of complaints in the latest period for which The Royal Welsh and (xxvii) Royal Welch Fusiliers; figures are available. [113824] [109793] (2) what the current (a) established unit strength, Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: For the (b) manning level, (c) number of personnel from the FY 2011-12 the Ministry of Defence spent in the region Commonwealth and (d) cost in the last financial year of £82,000 for civilian harassment case officers investigating for which figures are available is of the (i) service complaints. 3rd Battalion, The Rifles Regiment, (ii) 2nd Battalion, The Rifles Regiment, (iii) 2nd Battalion, The Mercian Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Regiment, (iv) 3rd Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Defence what the Army’s guidelines are on bullying Scotland, (v) 3rd Battalion, The Mercian Regiment, and harassment in the workplace. [113825] (vi) 4th Battalion, The Royal Regiment of Scotland, (vii) Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, (viii) 2nd Battalion, Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: The The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, (ix) 9th/12th Royal Army seeks to promote equality of opportunity for all Lancers, (x) 5th Battalion, The Rifles Regiment, (xi) personnel. It has a zero tolerance policy on bullying, 1st Battalion, The Princess of Wales’s Royal Regiment, harassment and discrimination and seeks to provide an (xii) Queen’s Royal Hussars, (xiii) 1st Battalion, The inclusive environment for all and to ensure respect for Yorkshire Regiment, (xiv) 2nd Battalion, The others. Yorkshire Regiment, (xv) 2nd Battalion, The Royal Clear policy and guidance is provided at all levels of Anglian Regiment, (xvi) 1st Battalion, The Royal the chain of command through the Army’s equality Gurkha Rifles, (xvii) 1st Battalion, The Rifles and diversity (E&D) directives, E&D training and through Regiment, (xviii) 1st Battalion, The Royal Regiment of briefings to personnel. Those who are found to fall Fusiliers, (xix) 2nd Battalion, The Royal Gurkha short of the standards and behaviours expected are Rifles, (xx) 2nd Battalion, The Duke of Lancaster’s dealt with appropriately by their commanders by way of Regiment, (xxi) Royal Scots Borders, 1st Battalion, The administrative or disciplinary action. Royal Regiment of Scotland, (xxii) Household Cavalry Individuals who feel they are experiencing any form Regiment and (xxiii) Queen’s Dragoon Guards. of bullying, harassment or discrimination can seek [109794] assistance and support from their unit E&D adviser, the Army Welfare Service and the Chaplaincy Service including Nick Harvey: The establishment and strength for the the provision of chaplaincy support for the five main relevant units, as at April 2012, is provided in the non-Christian faiths. Alternatively they can contact the following table: Army’s bullying, harassment and discrimination helpline, which has been set up independently of the chain of Strength of command. If an individual wishes to make a formal Commonwealth complaint they may do so through the Service Complaints and other non-UK system or externally through the Service Complaints Establishment Strength personnel Commissioner’s office. 1 Grenadier Guards 536 520 70 Armed Forces: Manpower 1 Coldstream Guards 535 462 25 1 Scots Guards 603 545 45 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Irish Guards 537 483 95 Defence (1) what the current (a) established unit Welsh Guards 530 506 40 strength, (b) manning level, (c) number of personnel Public Duties element 300 306 30 from the Commonwealth and (d) cost in the last 1 Scots 535 517 55 financial year for which figures are available is of the (i) 2 Scots 528 448 65 1st Battalion, The Coldstream Guards, (ii) 3 Scots 537 520 75 2nd Battalion, the Tigers, The Princess of Wales’s 4 Scots 608 460 90 Royal Regiment, (iii) The Household Cavalry Mounted 5 Scots 556 465 80 Regiment, (iv) Public duties companies of Brigade of 1 Princess of Wales 599 594 90 Guards, (v) 2nd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, Royal Regiment (vi) 3rd Battalion, The Parachute Regiment, (vii) 2 Princess of Wales 535 541 65 Royal Regiment Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 5th Battalion, The 191W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 192W

Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for Strength of Commonwealth Defence how many staff regarded to be suitably and other qualified and experienced personnel for work at non-UK defence munitions sites have left such employment at Establishment Strength personnel each such site in each of the last two years. [112394] 1 Royal Regiment of 599 601 70 Fusiliers Mr Robathan: The statistics held by the Ministry of 2 Royal Regiment of 532 523 65 Fusiliers Defence (MOD) on staff who have left Defence Munitions 1 Royal Anglian 571 565 35 sites do not provide sufficient detail to identify the skills 2 Royal Anglian 538 528 25 of those individuals who have left. The following table 1 Lancs 571 551 35 therefore identifies all civilian staff who have left Defence 2 Lancs 523 489 35 Munitions sites, irrespective of their qualifications and 1 Yorks 533 408 65 experience. The statistics do not include military personnel 2 Yorks 532 487 60 who were, in most instances, posted to new appointments 3 Yorks 599 593 70 elsewhere in the MOD. Over the same periods, 130 1 Mercian 533 494 35 civilian staff joined Defence Munitions (statistics gathered 2 Mercian 527 439 50 on the same basis as for those who have left). 3 Mercian 604 507 75 Site 2010-11 2011-12 Totals 1 Royal Welsh 527 501 45 2 Royal Welsh 575 529 50 Beith 10 20 30 1 RIFLES 532 504 70 Crombie 2 18 20 2 RIFLES 528 506 85 Glen Douglas 6 9 15 3 RIFLES 527 511 60 Gosport 21 24 45 4 RIFLES 571 551 65 Kineton 19 14 33 5 RIFLES 599 575 90 Plymouth 13 23 36 1 Royal Irish 554 554 150 Longtown 11 13 24 2 Para 553 463 25 Wulfen 0 0 0 3 Para 548 500 30 Other sites 3710 1 Royal Gurkha Rifles 552 608 608 (including HQs) 2 Royal Gurkha Rifles 573 628 628 Totals 85 128 213 Household Cavalry 379 390 35 Mounted Regiment Armed Forces: Pay Household Cavalry 306 336 25 Regiment Simon Reevell: To ask the Secretary of State for Queen’s Dragoon 295 281 15 Guards Defence on how many occasions his Department has Scots Dragoon 415 337 65 sought to recover advance payments of salary from the Guards families of service personnel killed on active service Royal Dragoon 396 340 15 since 2000. [112648] Guards Queen’s Royal 411 354 15 Mr Robathan: We never ask families of those killed in Hussars service to pay money back. Our aim is always to ensure 9/12 Lancers 295 264 10 families receive the right amount of money as quickly King’s Royal Hussars 396 358 10 as possible and to conduct a reconciliation of their pay Light Dragoons 379 352 15 accounts as soon as all the information becomes available Queen’s Royal Lancers 379 340 10 to us. 1 Royal Tank 358 340 30 Regiment We do not collect any money from the families of 2 Royal Tank 396 370 20 deceased service personnel, but we do adjust future Regiment payments to ensure families are paid all monies to which they are entitled. The establishment and strength figures comprise only Armed Forces: Pensions those soldiers from that unit’s specific Arm or Corps, and thus exclude any supporting personnel from other Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Corps. Defence whether changes to public service pensions Some units will have lower establishment levels than will affect only new entrants into the armed forces; and is required due to historic recruiting problems and what his policy is on applying such changes to existing therefore a more realistic recruiting target has been set. service personnel. [113718]

The term “Commonwealth and other non-UK strength” Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: Changes comprises individuals from Commonwealth countries, to public service pensions will affect all individuals who the Republic of Ireland and Nepal. Numbers under this are actively serving in the armed forces when the new category have been rounded to the nearest five. pension schemes are introduced in 2015, unless they are The corresponding financial information relating to covered by transitional protection. This protection means the listed units would be a combination of personnel, that those individuals who were within 10 years of their training, infrastructures, and equipment. This information scheme’s normal pension age on 1 April 2012 will not is not held centrally and could be provided only at have to join the new pension scheme and will be unaffected disproportionate cost. by the changes. 193W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 194W

These changes are in accordance with the Government’s Another key aim is to reduce the stigma that is acceptance of the recommendations of Lord Hutton’s sometimes attached to mental illness, which is an issue Independent Public Service Pensions Commission as a in the civilian world as well as the armed forces. This is basis for consultation with public service workers. being actively addressed through such programmes as the Army’s ’Don’t Bottle It Up’ campaign, and in the Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for deployment briefings provided to personnel and their Defence whether the Government is planning to make families. By encouraging people to come forward as any retrospective changes to public service pensions for soon as they begin to feel ill, we can provide treatment serving armed forces personnel; and whether the at an early stage and hopefully prevent the illness developing consent of such personnel is required before they enter further or recurring at a later date, including after they into new pension arrangements. [113857] have left the armed forces. Personnel leaving the armed forces are given advice Mr Robathan: It has been the policy of successive on seeking help at an early stage if they have concerns Governments not to make retrospective changes to about their mental health. The MOD and Department public sector pensions. The new Armed Forces Pension of Health are working together to improve the mental Scheme, currently under consultation, is no exception health care provided to ex-service personnel and veterans’ to this. There are no plans to make any retrospective mental health is an area which has received significant changes to service pensions for serving armed forces attention from this Government in the past two years. personnel. Following the publication of Dr Andrew Murrison’s The consent of service personnel is not required report ’Fighting Fit’, the Government pledged £1.8 million before they enter into new pension arrangements because per annum for the remainder of the spending review the Government will introduce a Public Services Pensions period to implement its recommendations. Much work Bill, as soon as parliamentary time allows, which will has already been completed, such as the launch of a replace existing schemes with new public service schemes 24-hour veterans telephone helpline, a trial of the online to be in place from 2015. wellbeing service ’Big White Wall’ and an e-learning package for NHS general practitioners to familiarise Armed Forces: Post-traumatic Stress Disorder themselves with veteran-specific health problems. There has been an uplift in the number of mental Mrs Glindon: To ask the Secretary of State for health professionals conducting veterans outreach work, Defence (1) what steps he is taking to reduce the from 15 to 30. In addition, the number of professionals incidence of post-traumatic stress disorder amongst working for Combat Stress in partnership with the serving and former soldiers; [113087] NHS takes this total to nearer 50. Plans are in place to establish a national veterans’ mental health clinical (2) how many soldiers who are on operational duties network. he estimates suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder; and what steps he has put in place to offer such soldiers Furthermore, each of the 10 armed forces networks assistance. [113088] (based geographically in the old strategic health authority areas) has received £150,000 from the Department of Mr Robathan [holding answer 25 June 2012]: I refer Health with which to build up enhanced community the hon. Member to the answer I gave on 12 June 2012, veterans’ mental health services in their areas. These Official Report, column 447W, to the hon. Member for services are now up and running in almost every region Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins). with the remainder planned to come on line by the end of this calendar year. These services were developed in The Ministry of Defence takes the issue of mental conjunction with local groups, for the local population. health very seriously, and we recognise that operational deployments will inevitably expose personnel to stressful Armed Forces: Redundancy experiences. The psychological welfare of troops (which covers general wellbeing as well as mental health) is a Richard Drax: To ask the Secretary of State for fundamental chain of command responsibility, and Defence whether any soldiers have been made personnel benefit greatly, in terms of mental health, by redundant before qualifying for a full pension. [113214] being within well led units with good support from their colleagues. Mr Robathan: In order to ensure that the redundancy Measures are in place to increase awareness at all programme is fair to all involved, clear selection criteria levels and to mitigate the development of operational have been published by each of the services. While rank stresses. Primary preventative measures include selection and seniority are factors which are reflected in selection for fitness at recruitment, provision of good leadership, fields, length of reckonable service, which is closely and robust training for all personnel. Secondary preventative associated with age, is not. measures include psycho-education, use of Trauma Risk While we do not comment on specific personal cases, Management (TRiM), and post-operational stress some soldiers will leave on redundancy before qualifying management, all of which aim at early detection of for a full pension. The Armed Forces Redundancy problems. Unit-based non-healthcare professionals such Schemes pay larger tax free redundancy compensation as chaplains, TRiM practitioners and welfare staff also lump sums to those who narrowly miss out on immediate have a vital role in supporting the chain of command in incomes than they do to those who qualify, and many of maintaining a good state of mental health among unit those who leave before qualifying are likely to have been personnel and in signposting those in need of treatment applicants for redundancy. to the Defence Medical Services. The families of returning Whereas the majority of other ranks normally have personnel are also offered advice on the possible after-effects to serve for 22 years before receiving an immediate of an operational deployment. income, the Armed Forces Redundancy Schemes reduce 195W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 196W this requirement to 18 years. This concession of four Mr Robathan: Members of the armed forces have years will enable many redundees to receive an immediate been fully involved in marking the 60th anniversary of income for which they would otherwise not have qualified. Her Majesty the Queen’s accession to the throne. The costs associated with this activity are currently being Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for collated. I will write to the hon. Member as soon as Defence how much his Department spent on these are available. redundancy payments for armed forces personnel in Substantive answer from Andrew Robathan to Roger (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012. [113700] Godsiff: I undertook to write to you in answer to your Parliamentary Mr Robathan: The total amounts the Ministry of Question about Diamond Jubilee costs on 19 June 2012, Official Defence has spent on redundancy payments for armed Report, column 933W, which were then being collated. forces personnel in 2010, 2011 and 2012, are shown in The costs associated with the Armed Forces Parade and Muster the following table: at Windsor, the Thames River Pageant and the Service of Thanksgiving are in the region of £880,000. This figure represents Financial year Total (£) marginal costs incurred as the participation of the Armed Forces was deemed core business. It includes the costs of the flypasts. 2010-11 0 2011-12 47,756,282 2012-13 as at 31 May 2012 20,146,174 Nuclear Submarines Total 67,902,456 Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Sexual Offences Defence what assessment he has made of whether a viable, continuous, at-sea deterrent is possible with only Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence two operational nuclear-armed submarines. [113753] how many allegations of rape made by members of the armed forces concluded with charges being (a) Mr Philip Hammond: It is the assessment of the brought and (b) dropped in the latest period for which Ministry of Defence that a fleet of four Vanguard figures are available; and if he will make a statement. submarines is currently required to sustain a viable [111993] Continuous At Sea Deterrence (CASD) posture. Within a four boat fleet, CASD can be delivered by two operational Mr Robathan: The following table details the number boats for short periods of time while the other two of allegations of rape referred to the service prosecuting boats are undergoing maintenance and upgrade periods, authority by the service police, the number of cases but this is not considered viable over the longer term. where charges have been directed for trial (brought) and the number of cases not directed for trial since the start Queen’s Dragoon Guards of 2010:

Number Susan Elan Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Cases where Defence what plans he has for the future of the 1st The Allegations charges are Cases not Queen’s Dragoon Guards. [113547] referred directed for trial directed For trial

2010 21 9 11 Nick Harvey: I refer the hon. Member to the answer I 2011 18 7 11 gave on 23 May 2012, Official Report, column 727W, to 2012 (to 19 June) 7 3 0 the hon. Member for Carmarthen East and Dinefwr (Jonathan Edwards). Allegations referred in any one year are not necessarily tried, or directed for trial in the same year, hence the apparent mathematical irregularities in the table. Territorial Army

Defence: Cryptography Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what proportion of Territorial Army Alison Seabeck: To ask the Secretary of State for personnel have civilian jobs (a) in self-employed roles Defence how many additional staff members have been and in businesses with up to 10 employees, (b) in recruited to work on the Cipher programme in the last businesses with 11 to 50 employees, (c) in businesses 12 months; and at what cost. [109516] with 51 to 200 employees and (d) in businesses with over 201 employees; and what proportion are on Peter Luff: In the last 12 months, four additional benefits. [112840] Ministry of Defence personnel have been internally recruited to work on the CIPHER programme at a total Mr Robathan: This information is not held. However, cost of approximately £141,000 per annum. as part of our consideration of the Future Reserves 2020 report we are exploring how information of this Diamond Jubilee 2012 type can be reliably captured in the future.

Mr Godsiff: To ask the Secretary of State for Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what estimate he has made of the cost to his Defence what the outflow was of territorial army Department of activities undertaken in connection personnel (a) including and (b) excluding the Officer with the Diamond Jubilee celebration. [112072] Training Corps in each of the last five years. [113112] 197W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 198W

Mr Robathan: The following table shows the number Leveson Inquiry of Territorial Army (TA) personnel, including and excluding those in the Officer Training Corps (OTC), who left in Mr Watson: To ask the Prime Minister (1) if he will each of the last four years. place in the Library copies of all documents, e-mails and text messages he submitted to the Leveson Inquiry; 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 [R] [113729] Total Territorial Army outflow 9,160 10,510 8,210 7,890 (2) how many times he has met Rebekah Brooks (including Officer Training since May 2010; [R] [113728] Corps) Total Territorial Army outflow 6,790 7,670 6,290 5,720 (3) with reference to his contribution to the Leveson (excluding Officer Training Inquiry on 14 June 2012, afternoon hearing, lines 5 to Corps) 22, on what dates he has met (a) Rebekah Brooks, (b) Charlie Brooks, (c) Andy Coulson and (d) James Data for outflow of TA personnel during the FY Murdoch since May 2010. [R] [113730] 2007-08 are not held centrally and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. The Prime Minister: The information requested is The outflow numbers include those individuals who publicly available on the Leveson Inquiry website: left the TA to join other parts of the armed forces. If http://www.levesoninquiry.org.uk/evidence/?witness=david- there is a period of one month or greater between an cameron-mp individual leaving the OTC and joining the TA they are included in the outflow statistics. Stephen Gilbert Members of the TA are employed under different terms and conditions to the regular Army and can leave at any time, unless they have been formally selected for Mr Winnick: To ask the Prime Minister what the full mobilisation. duties are of Stephen Gilbert, his political secretary; what proportion of his time is spent on matters relating Cadets join the Officer Training Corps while at university to (a) Government and (b) Conservative Party and can resign at any time. There is no obligation for business; and whether his salary is paid fully from them to join the armed forces when they leave university. public funds. [113929]

The Prime Minister: The staffing costs for my political PRIME MINISTER office are a matter for the Conservative party. Abid Hussain Visits Abroad Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister whether he has met Abid Hussain in an official capacity. Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister whether [112960] he plans to review the rules on non-governmental aides attending foreign trips with Ministers. [112964] The Prime Minister: I have not had any official meetings with Abid Hussain. Abid Hussain was one of 150 guests The Prime Minister: Ministers’ visits overseas are invited to Downing street in November 2010 to celebrate subject to the Ministerial Code. the Muslim festival of Eid-ul-Adha. Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister (1) if he Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister (1) directed the Minister without Portfolio to attend any of whether (a) he, (b) his special advisers and (c) his the official overseas trips she has participated in since civil servants were aware that Abid Hussain would be May 2010; [112965] accompanying the Minister without Portfolio on any (2) whether the Minister without Portfolio has been official overseas visits; [112961] allocated any specific foreign policy role in regard to (2) whether he cleared Abid Hussain to accompany the Government’s relations with Pakistan. [112967] the Minister without Portfolio on any of her official visits to Pakistan. [112962] The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the answer given by the Minister for the Cabinet Office and The Prime Minister: I refer the hon. Member to the Paymaster General, my right hon. Friend the Member answer given by the Minister for the Cabinet Office and for Horsham (Mr Maude), on 25 June 2012, Official Paymaster General, my right hon. Friend the Member Report, column 124W. for Horsham (Mr Maude), on 25 June 2012, Official Report, column 115W. Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister (1) Conservative Friends of Pakistan whether his officials have approved the official overseas travel undertaken by the Minister without Portfolio Michael Dugher: To ask the Prime Minister whether since May 2010; [112966] (a) he and (b) his special advisers have had meetings (2) what his policy is on foreign governments paying with representatives of the Conservative Friends of for UK Ministers to go on official overseas trips. Pakistan at No. 10 Downing Street since May 2010. [112963] [112968] The Prime Minister: The Ministerial Code sets out The Prime Minister: No. the requirements for overseas travel. 199W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 200W

INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT Nigeria Consultants Mr Mark Williams: To ask the Secretary of State for Martin Horwood: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development whether his Department International Development how much was remitted by plans to provide further support to civil society his Department to (a) PricewaterHouseCoopers, (b) organisations in Nigeria to provide oversight on public KPMG, (c) Deloitte, (d) Ernst and Young and (e) the expenditure in the education sector through Adam Smith Institute in each of the last five financial accountability and transparency initiatives. [113256] years for which figures are available. [113911] Mr O’Brien: The UK is providing support to monitor Mr Duncan: DFID’s central finance records show the and track financial expenditure through the Education following expenditure (in GBP pounds sterling) against Sector Support Programme in Nigeria. This programme the UK and overseas entities of the requested suppliers: supports civil society and school based management committees to hold local governments and schools Supplier 2009-10 2010-11 2011-12 accountable for funds. The UK is currently in discussion with key civil society organisations as to what further PricewaterhouseCoopers 6,492,601.38 12,356,644.52 24,287,934.54 support might be needed. KPMG 29,204,351.09 37,573,146.58 39,439,394.62 Deloitte 1,109,572.08 934,226.03 1,122,022 Ernst and Young 130,760.40 248,235 2,922,172.92 Sahel Adam Smith 31,181,433.40 37,083,997.43 44,914,334.60

These remittances comprise payment for services provided Jonathan Edwards: To ask the Secretary of State for directly to DFID but also include remittances where International Development what steps he is taking to they retain a fee and disburse a much larger amount to prevent famine in the Sahel; and whether he will others. Such amounts are included within the totals in provide additional funding if he deems it necessary to the table above. prevent a worsening of the situation. [113379] The Department’s central procurement records do not hold details of contracts let below the EU threshold, Mr O’Brien: The United Nations currently estimates which fall within the delegated authority of spending that the food crisis in the Sahel region of west Africa departments, including country offices. To provide this has left over 18 million people at risk of food shortage level of detail would incur disproportionate cost. Those over the next few months. Of these, 8 million people contracts which exceed the EU threshold are subject to require urgent assistance. the Department’s competitive tender process, in line Having been in the region earlier this month, I can with EU regulations. confirm that the scale of the needs are great, but the Government Procurement Card UK’s early assistance is already achieving results and helping to avert the worst of the crisis, which nonetheless Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for continues. International Development how many procurement In response to the unfolding crisis, the UK provided card holders in his Department were (a) paid two contributions of £5 million each in January and off-payroll, (b) employed on a part-time basis and (c) March 2012. employed as a non-permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, I confirm that we have announced over the past two (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [113336] weeks a further package of assistance. Worth an additional £15.4 million, this more than doubles UK assistance to Mr Duncan: In 2011-12, DFID had 76 procurement the region in 2012, to a total of £25.4 million. card holders of which (a) all are on DFID payroll, (b) four are part-time and (c) seven are people currently on Through this assistance, British aid this year will secondment into DFID from other Government support 1.6 million people at risk of hunger across Departments. Mali, Niger, Chad, Mauritania and Burkina Faso, to achieve the following results: We have insufficient historical data to provide answers for 2009-10 and 2010-11. Improved nutrition for 185,000 children and women (including therapeutic treatment to save the lives of over 110,000 severely malnourished children under five years old); Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development on which dates his Food and cash vouchers for over 250,000 men, women and children; Department has published Government procurement card spending over £500 since May 2010. [113354] Livelihoods support to over 980,000 people through: 1. The provision of seeds and tools for families to enable them Mr Duncan: DFID procurement card transactions to feed themselves for the next year; and over £500 are published on the DFID website 2. Animal feed and vaccinations to keep farmers’ livestock http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/ alive. DFID-Government-Procurement-Card-transactions-over- These direct funds are in addition to £27 million of 500/ UK contributions also being provided in 2012 to the This includes all expenditure over £500 dating back to Sahel region through multilateral agencies such as the April 2010. This information has been published on the European Community Humanitarian Office (ECHO) DFID website since July 2011 with earlier information and the United Nations Central Emergency Response published in February 2012. Fund (CERF). 201W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 202W

I and my officials will continue to monitor the situation Alistair Burt: Details of Ministers’ meetings with closely and liaise with our opposite numbers in other external organisations are available in the Library of governments to urge that other countries also take their the House. fair share of the response. On a few occasions Foreign and Commonwealth Office officials have met with Mr Hussain to discuss Syria issues relating to overseas Pakistanis and British Nationals. Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what reports he has Air Displays: Farnborough received on the humanitarian situation of Syrian Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for refugees at the Turkish, Lebanese, Jordanian and Iraqi Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the borders. [113799] statement of 11 June 2012, Official Report, column 45, on Syria, if he will make representations to the Mr Duncan: The UN estimates there are over 93,000 organisers of the July 2012 Farnborough Air Show that Syrian refugees in need of assistance in Turkey, Lebanon, they should withdraw their invitation to Jordan and Iraq, and numbers are steadily increasing. Rosoboronexport to exhibit at that show. [113846] Priority humanitarian needs among Syrian refugees continue to be food and basic supplies, shelter and Alistair Burt: Farnborough International Air Show is assistance with rent, access to safe water and sanitation, a commercial event, run by Farnborough International as well as support for host communities. Many Syrians Ltd. The British Government plays no part in determining fleeing the violence require emergency medical assistance which companies-are invited to exhibit. as well as basic health care and psychological support. The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth The UN Refugee Agency (UNHCR) is co-ordinating Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond with other humanitarian agencies to provide assistance (Yorks) (Mr Hague), has made clear to Foreign Minister for people fleeing Syria, in addition to the support and Lavrov on several occasions his deep concerns about services the governments of neighbouring countries are continued Russian arms transfers to the Syrian Regime. providing. I recently visited the Jordan-Syria border where I met families who had fled some of the worst Armed Conflict: Children affected parts of Syria. I also saw the tremendous efforts the UN and governments of neighbouring countries Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for are making to support those fleeing the violence. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assessment The UK has so far provided £2 million to UNHCR he has made of the UN Report on Children and to provide accommodation, food, and other essential Armed Conflict published in April 2012; and if he will support to meet the needs of Syrian refugees in Jordan, make a statement. [113800] Lebanon, Turkey and Iraq. This is in addition to substantial Mr Bellingham: We welcome this report, covering the core funding which the Department provides to UNHCR period January to December 2011, which gives a useful for its global operations. The UK is also funding the overview of the situation of girls and boys in conflict UN and humanitarian agencies working to provide zones and measures taken for their protection, covering much needed food, water and sanitation, and medical the period January to December 2011. It is welcome assistance in Syria and the region. Our total funding to that the information gathered is vetted and verified for date now stands at £8.5 million to meet humanitarian accuracy. needs. We speak regularly to our humanitarian partners We commend the pragmatic approach taken by the to assess what further help may be needed. Special Representative of the Secretary General (SRSG) for Children and Armed Conflict, who has emphasised the humanitarian aspects to this issue, with the aim of FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE ensuring broad and effective protection for children exposed to and affected by conflict in situations of Abid Hussain concern. The SRSG has rightly reminded all parties of their obligations under international human rights law Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for and international humanitarian law, and in particular Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether (a) he, the principles of distinction and proportionality and (b) Ministers in his Department and (c) officials in his the duty to protect children and prevent violations, Department were aware that Abid Hussain would be taking all necessary precautions to avoid civilian casualties. accompanying the Minister without Portfolio on We are encouraged to see the implementation of official visits abroad. [112971] Security Council Resolution 1998 (2011). which called for the SRSG to list parties who used children to launch Alistair Burt: I refer the hon. Member to the answer attacks on schools and hospitals. It is also good that the given by the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster report lists parties who recruit and use children, kill and General, my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham maim them and commit sexual violence against them. (Mr Maude), on 25 June 2012, Official Report, column 115W. Azerbaijan Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether (a) he, and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions he has (b) Ministers in his Department and (c) senior had with the government of Azerbaijan on refugees officials in his Department have met Abid Hussain. and internally displaced persons in that country. [112972] [113525] 203W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 204W

Mr Lidington: Hundreds of thousands of Azerbaijanis For the period April 2010-March 2011, 1,061 complaints and Armenians are displaced as a direct result of the relating to the FCO’s consular services were received by ongoing conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, over consular staff based in the UK. For the period April Nagorno Karabakh. The fundamental problem can 2011-March 2012, 191 complaints relating to the FCO’s only be resolved through a negotiated peaceful settlement. consular services were received by consular staff based In meetings with relevant Armenian and Azerbaijani in the UK. There was a change in reporting method for interlocutors, including with both Foreign Ministers the 2011-12 figures, which do not include complaints and Presidents, the British Government urges both regarding passports and visas following the transfer of sides to use all available diplomatic means, in particular responsibility to the Overseas Passport Management the Minsk Group process, to achieve such a settlement. Unit/Identity and Passport Service and the UK Border The Prime Minister raised the issue with the Azerbaijani Agency respectively. President on 21 May 2012 at the NATO Chicago summit FCO Services is an Executive agency and trading and the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth fund of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office which Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond operates commercially and competes with private sector (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised this with the Armenian suppliers for the provision of secure logistics, project Foreign Minister on 13 July 2011 in London. and information communication technology services. The British Government funds a number of peace As an organisation it supplies products and services to building initiatives, in support of dialogue and reconciliation the UK Government and other international institutions between Armenia and Azerbaijan, and supports the and governments with which the UK has close links. UN Refugee Agency’s work on strengthening the asylum FCO Services has a formal complaints procedure to system and assisting refugees to become self-reliant. enable its government customers to resolve issues as they arise. Eight cases were logged through this procedure In recent weeks, tension has escalated along the northern in 2010-11 and six in 2011-12. Complaints received border and the line of contact around Nagorno Karabakh outside of this formal procedure are not recorded. itself. Together with other EU member states, we have called on both countries to show restraint and to refrain The British Council is an Executive non-departmental from further violence. body of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It is also a registered charity, and is incorporated by Royal Belarus Charter. The British Council does not hold a central log of complaints received across its global network. Offices overseas each have a designated complaints manager Tracey Crouch: To ask the Secretary of State for and deal with any complaints which arise locally. The Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what discussions British Council has recently begun to collect feedback he has had with the EU High Representative on which includes complaints on its UK operations. In sending election monitoring missions to Belarus to 2011-12 383 such enquiries were received using this oversee the recently-announced parliamentary mechanism. elections. [113776] Wilton Park is an Executive agency of the Foreign Mr Lidington: The Government has had no discussions and Commonwealth Office which organises conferences with the EU High Representative on this issue. The on international topics. Wilton Park does not hold state of democracy and human rights in Belarus remains central records of complaints received, and it did not poor, making effective monitoring of the 23 September receive any complaints about its service in 2010-11 or parliamentary elections particularly important. Along 2011-12. Feedback from conference delegates indicate with our EU partners, the Government will encourage that the conferences are well received. Belarus to invite a monitoring mission from the Office The Marshall Aid Commemoration Commission is a for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) non-departmental body of the Foreign and Commonwealth at the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Office. It administers the Marshall Scholarship programme, Europe (OSCE) for the parliamentary elections. The which provides scholarships to students from the USA UK would offer strong support to any such mission. to pursue postgraduate study in the UK. The Marshall Aid Commemoration Commission has a formal complaints Complaints procedure. It did not receive any complaints about its work in 2010-11 or 2011-12. Mr Thomas: To ask the Secretary of State for The Great Britain China Centre do not hold central Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many records of complaints received. complaints about the work of his Department and each of its agencies and non-departmental public Egypt bodies were received in (a) 2010-11 and (b) 2011-12; and if he will make a statement. [108946] Angus Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he Mr Lidington: Records of complaints received by our has received on the conduct of the recent elections in network of diplomatic posts around the world are not Egypt. [113802] held centrally and cannot be provided without incurring disproportionate cost. Information on complaints raised Alistair Burt: The Secretary of State for Foreign with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) by and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the the parliamentary ombudsman are recorded on page 29 Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), issued a of the FCO’s annual departmental report: statement on 19 June in which he welcomed the peaceful http://www.fco.gov.uk/resources/en/pdf/publications/annual- conduct of the second round of Egypt’s presidential reports/annual-report-accounts-2010-11 elections. Following the announcement of the results on 205W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 206W

24 June, he congratulated the Egyptian people for their In 2008 The Foreign and Commonwealth Office in commitment to the democratic process and wished the the UK changed its gas supplier from British Gas to new President of Egypt, Dr Mohammed Mursi, success Corona Energy and its electricity supplier from London in the challenging task ahead. Energy to EDF. The election monitoring missions of the Carter Center All supplies are purchased through Government and the Electoral Institute for Sustainable Democracy Procurement Service suppliers to achieve best value in Africa (EISA), both of which were partly funded by through Government wide framework contracts. the Arab Partnership, concluded that while the uncertain The detail of energy suppliers and costs for our political environment in which the elections were held overseas network is not held centrally and could be was of concern, the conduct on polling days was largely obtained only at disproportionate cost orderly and free from major and systematic flaws that unfairly advantaged either candidate. This assessment EU Enlargement was shared by embassy staff in Cairo who visited over 100 polling stations throughout Egypt during the first Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for and second rounds of the presidential elections. Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he last met the President of the Council of Ministers to discuss EU enlargement; and if he will make a statement. [113121] Energy Mr Lidington: The Government is a strong supporter Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for of EU enlargement for all of the countries of the Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (1) how much his Western Balkans, Iceland and Turkey when conditions Department spent on (a) gas and (b) electricity bills in are met. We hope that each country will continue to each of the last 10 years; [113494] make progress against the conditions, and progress along the path to their EU future. I frequently discuss (2) which energy supplier supplies his Department the question of EU enlargement, in these terms, with a with (a) gas and (b) electricity; [113485] wide range of EU interlocutors. The Secretary of State (3) whether his Department switched its (a) gas or for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. (b) electricity supplier in any of the last 10 years. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), [113467] most recently discussed these issues with EU Enlargement Commissioner, Stefan Füle, on 29 May 2012. Ministers Mr Lidington: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office also discuss the progress of countries throughout the (FCO) has spent the following amounts on gas and year in the Council. For example we discussed at the electricity in the UK in the past eight years. Figures 29 May General Affairs Council the European prior to 2003-04 are not available on a comparable Commission’s Interim Monitoring Report on Croatia, basis. assessing Croatia’s continued progress towards fully meeting the conditions for membership ahead of its £ expected accession to the EU on 1 July 2013. And we Gas Electricity hope to be able to open accession negotiations with Montenegro in June. We look forward to further substantive 2011-12 13,868 2,530,841 discussion in December of all countries and their progress 2010-11 37,959 2,539,432 towards the EU on the basis of the European Commission’s 2009-10 46,513 3,030,620 Annual Enlargement Package, published in the autumn. 2008-09 44,078 3,216,694 2007-08 26,323 1,892,457 Israel 2006-07 25,740 1,596,434 2005-06 36,610 1,282,301 Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 16,600 870,899 Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for Oxford East of 11 June Energy usage increased significantly with the opening 2012, Official Report, columns 230-31W, on Israel, of Data Centres for storing electronic records in 2008-09. whether his Department may specify the exclusion of Cost reductions from 2010 onwards reflect FCO actions settlement products in purchasing goods and services to meet sustainability targets, such as installation of low under existing UK and EU procurement guidelines. energy lighting and improved efficiency of other electrical [113621] equipment. As a result of estimated gas readings in 2010-11 the FCO was charged more than actual usage; Alistair Burt: The grounds for rejection of a supplier 2011-12 costs were therefore significantly lower as this under UK and EU procurement law are set out in the figure reflects a credit. relevant legislation. It would have to be considered The Foreign and Commonwealth Office uses the whether, on the facts of a particular case, any of these following suppliers across the UK Estate: grounds applied. Gas—Corona Energy and E-ON Libya Electricity—EDF Corona Energy supply gas to Lancaster House and Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for 1 Carlton Gardens as domestic users and E-ON to King Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what assistance Charles Street on a commercial tariff. The Old Admiralty his Department is giving to Libya for its transition to Building and Hanslope Park are not supplied with Gas. parliamentary democracy. [113529] 207W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 208W

Alistair Burt: In response to Libyan requests, we have The position of correspondence and customer services contributed £1.5 million to the UN Libyan Electoral manager in Bangkok was re-advertised in August 2011 Assistance Programme, which is providing practical as none of the candidates who applied for the job in and logistical assistance for the elections, including June 2011 was found to be suitable for the position. security, education and media planning. We are also funding the training of local electoral observers, projects Visits Abroad to help women’s groups advocate their views, electoral education projects focusing on women and youth and Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for police advisers and training to assist effective election Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs how many official security co-ordination. overseas trips by Government Ministers have been paid for by foreign governments since May 2010. [112959] Minister without Portfolio Mr Lidington: Foreign and Commonwealth Office Michael Dugher: To ask the Secretary of State for (FCO) Ministers are regularly hosted by foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether the Governments as part of their official duties. This can Minister without Portfolio has been given official include covering some of the costs of accommodation, responsibilities by his Department. [112973] travel and security support. The FCO does not hold records on the funding of Mr Lidington: As a Cabinet Minister, the Minister overseas trips undertaken by non-FCO Ministers. The without Portfolio represents the UK Government when Government publishes on a quarterly basis information on official visits abroad as part of the Government’s about Ministers’ visits overseas. Information for the work to enhance bilateral relations and support foreign period May 2010 to December 2011 is in the Library of policy objectives. the House. Politics and Government: Indonesia World Refugee Day

Mr Andrew Smith: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Gray: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs whether he raised and Commonwealth Affairs what steps his Department the matter of human rights in West Papua with the is taking to mark World Refugee Day 2012. [113139] Government of Indonesia during his visit there in April 2012. [113689] Mr Jeremy Browne: The Foreign and Commonwealth Mr Jeremy Browne: During my meeting with the Office did not mark World Refugee Day on 20 June Indonesian President we discussed a full range of issues 2012. The UK is very proud to be a signatory to the including the importance of maintaining progress on Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and of human rights and the challenges of handling regional its ongoing commitment to provide sanctuary to those autonomy issues. in genuine need of protection. The Convention remains as relevant and important today as it has ever been. The Sudan: South Sudan UK’s Department for International Development provides substantial long-term care funding to the UN High Mr Bain: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) which provides and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he is taking to protection and assistance to refugees and internally support the political negotiations between Sudan and displaced persons all around the word. In 2010 UNHCR South Sudan in Addis Ababa and ensure their helped over 25 million people which is 58% of all people successful completion. [113711] displaced worldwide. Mr Bellingham: We continue to make clear to both countries that they must comply with the African Union JUSTICE (AU) roadmap and negotiate substantively on a comprehensive settlement. We are fully supporting President Contempt of Court Mbeki and the AU High Level Implementation Panel in their mediation efforts. The UK Special Representative Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for for Sudan and South Sudan is also attending the latest Justice how many people were (a) prosecuted, (b) round of talks which started on 21 June. We will continue convicted and (c) received custodial sentences for to provide practical and political support to the process contempt of court in a county court in each of the last where needed, in close co-ordination with other interested five years for which figures are available. [113919] partners. Mr Blunt: Information held centrally by the Ministry Thailand of Justice on the Court Proceedings Database does not include the circumstances behind each case beyond the Mr Mike Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for description provided in the statute. It is therefore not Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs for what reasons possible to separately identify offences of contempt of the advert for a locally engaged correspondence and court arising from a county court ruling or judgment customer services manager at the British Embassy in from offences of contempt of court arising from a Thailand in June 2011 was re-advertised in August ruling or judgment in other courts. 2011. [113417] For the available statistical information on contempt Damian Green: I have been asked to reply on behalf of court I refer the hon. Member to the answer I gave of the Home Department. on 14 June 2012, Official Report, column 610W. 209W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 210W

Curfews Dangerous Dogs

Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what proportion of offenders who committed a Justice how many convictions for offences under the more serious breach of a curfew under a community Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 following an attack on a order or suspended sentence were brought back to health worker making a home visit there have been in court by (a) offender managers as the responsible each of the last three years. [113614] officer where the curfew was part of a multi- requirement order and (b) electronic monitoring Mr Blunt: Information held centrally by the Ministry companies as the responsible officer where the curfew of Justice on the Court Proceedings Database does not was a single-requirement order in the latest period for include the circumstances behind each case beyond the description provided in the statute. From proceedings at which figures are available. [113271] the magistrates courts for offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, it is not possible to identify a victim’s Mr Blunt: It is not possible to provide the number of professional status or specific location at which an breaches that were brought to court by offender managers offence occurred. This detailed information may be where the curfew was part of a multi-requirement order held by the courts on individual case files which due to except at disproportionate cost. The electronic monitoring their size and complexity are not reported to Justice service providers are not advised of the outcomes of Statistics Analytical Services. witness statements provided. Information would only be available through a manual trawl of court or police The number of defendants found guilty at all courts records. under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 in England and Wales, from 2009 to 2011, can be viewed in the table as Where the curfew was a single-requirement order, in follows. financial year 2011-12 all offenders in England and Number of defendants found guilty at all courts for offences under the Dangerous Wales who committed a more serious breach of a Dogs Act 1991, England and Wales, 2009 to 20111, 2 curfew under a community order or suspended sentence Number were brought back to court by the electronic monitoring companies as required. 2009 884 2010 1,237 Cycling: Roads 2011 1,128 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When Ian Austin: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed for (1) with reference to the letter from British Cycling of two or more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory 1 June 2012, what assessment he has made of British maximum penalty is the most severe. Cycling’s recommendation for a review of the criminal 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extracted justice system to better protect road users; [111511] from large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection (2) if he will meet hon. Members and representatives processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those of British Cycling to discuss issues raised in its letter of data are used. 1 June 2012; [111512] Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice. (3) when he plans to reply to the letter from British Demonstrations: Prosecutions Cycling of 1 June 2012 regarding a review of the criminal justice system to better protect road users; and Louise Mensch: To ask the Secretary of State for if he will place in the Library a copy of his reply. Justice how many prosecutions have been brought in [111513] each region under section 42 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 in the last 12 months. [113680] Mr Blunt: The Ministry of Justice has received a letter from British Cycling of 1 June 2012 relating to a Mr Blunt: The number of defendants proceeded against review of the criminal justice system to better protect at magistrates court, by region for offences under section road users. We are consulting with colleagues across 42 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 in Government on the issues raised in the letter before we England and Wales for 2011 can be viewed in the table respond. as follows:

Defendants proceeded against at magistrates court for offences under Section 42 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, by region, England and Wales, 20111, 2 Statute Offence description Region Proceeded against

Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001 Harassment etc. of a person in his home North East 0 S42A North West 1 Yorkshire and Humberside 1 East Midlands 1 West Midlands 1 East of England 1 London 2 South East 0 South West 0 211W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 212W

Defendants proceeded against at magistrates court for offences under Section 42 of the Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, by region, England and Wales, 20111, 2 Statute Offence description Region Proceeded against

Wales 1

Criminal Justice and Police Act 2001, Failing to comply with a direction to leave the North East 6 S.42 (7A) and (7B) vicinity and not to return within a specified period for the purposes of representing to or persuading the resident that he should do something or not do something. Knowingly contravening a direction or conditions given by constable under this section North West 31 Yorkshire and Humberside 14 East Midlands 10 West Midlands 0 East of England 3 London 0 South East 12 South West 2 Wales 1 1 The figures given in the table on court proceedings relate to persons for whom these offences were the principal offences for which they were dealt with. When a defendant has been found guilty of two or more offences it is the offence for which the heaviest penalty is imposed. Where the same disposal is imposed fortwoor more offences, the offence selected is the offence for which the statutory maximum penalty is the most severe. 2 Every effort is made to ensure that the figures presented are accurate and complete. However, it is important to note that these data have been extractedfrom large administrative data systems generated by the courts and police forces. As a consequence, care should be taken to ensure data collection processes and their inevitable limitations are taken into account when those data are used. Source: Justice Statistics Analytical Services—Ministry of Justice.

Driving Offences: Insurance Service energy framework from March 2005. Contracts are transferred to the framework as they expire. Karl McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for The Department’s energy suppliers are (a) Corona Justice what the cost was of court proceedings arising for gas and (b) EDF Energy and British Gas for from the trial of drivers accused of making fraudulent electricity. insurance claims in (a) 1997, (b) 2002 and (c) 2011. The Ministry of Justice was established on 7 May [111048] 2007. The combined spending of the core Department and its Executive agencies (HM Courts and Tribunals Mr Blunt: The offence of ‘making fraudulent insurance Service and its precursors, the National Offender claims’ is likely to be proceeded against under Section 1 Management Service, the Office of the Public Guardian of the Fraud Act 2006. This includes offenders who and its precursor) on (a) gas and (b) electricity in each dishonestly make false representations to make gains year since its inception was: for themselves or cause losses to another person. £ million The Ministry of Justice does not collate all details of (a) Gas (b) Electricity proceedings. As a result it is not possible to specifically identify and cost proceedings that relate to drivers 2007-08 29.2 34.5 accused of making fraudulent insurance claims under 2008-09 44.4 53.6 Section 1 of the Fraud Act. This information could be 2009-10 40.3 48.5 obtained only by examining all relevant court records of 2010-11 34.2 31.8 Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunals Service and would 2011-12 39.8 43.6 incur disproportionate cost. The spike in heating costs in 2008-09 is attributed to Energy the extremely cold winter of that year, which at that point was the 10th coldest since Meteorological Office records began. Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (1) whether his Department has switched its (a) Probation gas or (b) electricity supplier in any of the last 10 years; [113450] Mr Raab: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice (2) which energy supplier supplies his Department how many individuals subject to supervision measures with (a) gas and (b) electricity; [113483] imposed in the UK have had their supervision measures supervised by the authorities of another EU (3) how much his Department has spent on its (a) member state under the terms of EU Council gas and (b) electricity bills in each of the last 10 years. Framework Decision 2009/829/JHA in each year since [113496] 2009; and how many individuals subject to supervision measures in other EU member states have had their Mr Djanogly: The Ministry of Justice started transferring supervision measures supervised by the UK authorities its gas and energy supplies to the Government Procurement in each year since 2009. [113326] 213W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 214W

Mr Kenneth Clarke: None: the EU Council Framework and the problem addressed. The Government is also decision 2009/829/JHA on implementing all the recommendations in the Taylor “the application between member states of the European report on improving school attendance with exception Union of the principle of mutual recognition to decisions on of the recommendation to deduct unpaid penalty notices supervision measures as an alternative to provisional detention”, from parents’ child benefit. The Government is still known as the European Supervision Order, is not due to considering how best to implement the enforcement of be implemented until 1 December 2012. unpaid penalty notices. The Government has also introduced behaviour reforms Social Security Benefits: Appeals in schools to help tackle key root causes of disengagement, lack of attainment, and antisocial behaviour. For example, Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Government is currently trialling a new approach to when he plans to announce whether legal aid will be exclusion in almost 300 schools. This approach sees extended to welfare benefit cases involving points of schools commissioning preventative services for their law in the lower tribunal. [113921] most challenging pupils using local authority resources previously dedicated to educating excluded pupils. By Mr Djanogly: We are giving serious thought to this addressing poor behaviour earlier we can reduce the issue and are considering the exact scope of the concession need for exclusion and improve the education of vulnerable as well as how such work will be delivered in the future. pupils. Once we have considered in full we will make an These reforms will ensure that pupils achieve better announcement. outcomes, are motivated to remain in education, and Young Offenders remain on a path to a fulfilling life. We are driving up participation in education and John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for training as we prepare to raise the age of compulsory Justice what strategies he will employ to cut crime participation to 17 in 2013 and 18 in 2015. We are among those who have (a) persistently run away from providing additional support for disadvantaged young home, (b) been taken into care as a child, (c) regularly people through the Pupil Premium; investing a record truanted from school, (d) been excluded from school £7.5 billion in education and training places for 16 to 18-year-olds; providing targeted financial support through and (e) acquired no qualifications. [112272] the 16 to 19 Bursary Fund and investing £126 million Mr Blunt: We recognise that there are a range of risk support disengaged 16 to 17-year-olds through the Youth factors for criminal and offending behaviour. Contract. Giving every young person the opportunity to gain the skills and qualifications they need will Police forces need to tackle crime in line with local reduce the risks of unemployment and associated negative priorities, and from November 2012, the election of outcomes for young people. police and crime commissioners will drive down crime by making policing more accountable and responsive to local needs and concerns. Police.uk now provides the public with street-level information about crime to enable ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS them hold local policing teams to account, and the Agricultural Wages Board Government has swept away central targets and is cutting bureaucracy to help free police officers to cut crime. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State At a national level, the Department for Education for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (1) if she will has set in motion a number of far-reaching reforms to publish the risk assessment on her Department’s address the entrenched educational and social failures decision to abolish the Agricultural Wages Board; that can drive problems like youth crime and violence. [113808] The education reforms will drive up pupil performance and increase participation in further study and employment. (2) when she plans to bring forward secondary legislation to enable the abolition of the Agricultural We are revising the statutory guidance on ’children Wages Board. [113809] who run away or go missing from home or care’ to give local authorities a clearer understanding of their duties Mr Paice: An impact assessment in respect of abolition so that they understand the importance of intervening of the Agricultural Wages Board will be published as early with this vulnerable group. part of the necessary legislative process. As I indicated Improving all aspects of the lives of children in in the Westminster Hall debate on agricultural employment care-placement stability, education, health, the daily on 20 June, the timing for bringing forward legislation experience of being in care, the successful transition to on the abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board is not adulthood, and strengthening the adoption system are yet determined. priorities for the Government. We are giving additional financial support at every level of these children’s education; Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State and encouraging LAs to provide intensive support for for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether she the most vulnerable, especially those who have the most proposes that those under 16 who work on farms will entrenched difficulties and are on the edge of offending. receive the national minimum wage or above after the We know that regular absence from school leads to abolition of the Agricultural Wages Board. [113810] low levels of attainment so we have reduced the threshold where a pupil is defined as persistently absent from 20% Mr Paice: The National Minimum Wage Act 1998 to 15% so that those children who demonstrate a pattern does not apply to children of compulsory school age, in of missing too much schooling can be picked up early, any industry; therefore if the Agricultural Wages Board 215W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 216W were abolished, no minimum rate would be set for biodiversity.The Government is committed to encouraging workers on farms in this age group as is the case Payments for Ecosystem Services pilots across a broad elsewhere. spectrum of nature’s services and beneficiaries. The Government is in favour of a greener CAP, with a Agriculture: Food greater proportion spent on public goods, including improved environmental outcomes such as supporting Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State biodiversity and climate mitigation, and will be seeking for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether her to secure this in the CAP Reform negotiations. Department has made an assessment of the effect of the situation in the Eurozone on (a) farmers and (b) Dairy Farming food manufacturers in the UK. [111978] Mr Paice: As part of our normal business DEFRA Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for monitors market developments and stays in touch with Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent stakeholders regarding the implications for their sectors. assessment she has made of the dairy milk trade and its At the moment, we are actively listening to any particular effect on dairy farmers; if she will consider introducing concerns they raise in light of the current market a code of practice in the dairy supply chain; and if she uncertainty. will make a statement. [113375] In terms of the outlook, the Government has contingency plans in place to cover a range of eventualities and Mr Paice: I can appreciate the difficulties for farmers risks. as a result of recent cuts in milk prices. However, income for all operators in the supply chain will vary as Agriculture: Industrial Health and Safety a result of price changes on global agricultural markets. World, EU and UK market prices have all dropped in Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State recent months. for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent Industry representatives are currently well-engaged discussions she has had with the Health and Safety in the process of establishing a voluntary Code of Executive on efforts to improve health and safety Practice for the dairy industry and I fully support these standards in the agricultural sector. [113814] efforts. This has the potential to improve the position of Mr Paice: The Secretary of State for Environment, farmers and it could be up and running far more Food and Rural Affairs has had no recent discussions quickly than any legislation. It would also leave the with the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) on the industry in control. health and safety of agricultural workers. Health and Hazardous Substances Safety in the agriculture industry is a matter for HSE. However, I promised the hon. Gentleman that I would Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for speak with the Health and Safety Executive following Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will take the recent debate on agricultural employment. My officials steps to require the addition of a bittering agent to are in the process of arranging a meeting. ethylene glycol-based antifreeze to prevent small Animal Welfare: Circuses children and pets from ingesting the product. [113665]

Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Paice: DEFRA is keen to see improved standards Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will set a of animal welfare. However, consumer product safety is deadline for the implementation of the ban on the use the remit of the Department for Business, Innovation of wild animals in circuses. [113055] and Skills. In addition, the classification and labelling of such products is governed by the CLP/GHS Regulations Mr Paice: I refer the hon. Member to my written which are the responsibility of the Health and Safety ministerial statement on 1 March 2012, Official Report, Executive. I will alert the Ministers responsible to your columns 41-42WS. A ban will be implemented as soon concerns about the well being of both children and as parliamentary time allows. As stated on 11 June animals. 2012, Official Report, column 312W. Seasonal Agricultural Workers’ Scheme Common Agricultural Policy

Zac Goldsmith: To ask the Secretary of State for Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Environment, Food and Rural Affairs whether farmers for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what will be able to receive payment for ecosystem services assessment her Department has made of the potential under the Common Agricultural Policy Scheme. effect of ending the Seasonal Agricultural Workers [113544] Scheme in 2013 on the agricultural workforce. [113813] Mr Paice: Pillar two of the common agricultural Mr Paice: As I said in the Westminster Hall debate policy provides funding for environmental outcomes on agricultural employment on 20 June 2012, the Home through environmental stewardship. Environmental Office has indicated that it intends to consult the stewardship, as a mechanism for paying those who independent Migration Advisory Committee (MAC) deliver a wide range of environmental outcomes from on the impact of closing SAWS and the case for a future the farmed environment, can be considered a Payment scheme. It is expected that stakeholders will have the for Ecosystem Services scheme, with Government effectively opportunity to provide evidence to the MAC. DEFRA purchasing public benefits on behalf of a large number officials are in close contact with both Home Office of beneficiaries, for example, relating to landscape and colleagues and industry representatives on these matters. 217W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 218W

Sheep: Tagging Department’s London headquarters at Caxton House, Tothill Street, work on employment and support Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for allowance (a) policy and (b) administration. [113918] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what recent discussions she has had with (a) the National Farmers Chris Grayling: There are seven officials in Caxton Union and (b) others on her Department’s policy on House dedicated specifically to ESA policy (including sheep electronic identification movements and the WCA policy, and supporting professor Harrington’s requirement to read tags all of the time; and if she will independent reviews). It should be noted however, that make a statement. [113374] there are other officials who provide input as a part of their role. These include analysts, lawyers, doctors and Mr Paice: The National Farmers Union and other other policy officials. industry representative bodies are consulted regularly on sheep identification issues. The administration of ESA is not carried out by officials at Caxton House—this is a matter for operational DEFRA is aware of concerns that incomplete individual teams. animal data in on farm movement records will result in reductions to single farm payments if found during Incapacity Benefit cross compliance inspections. Such inspections take place on 3% of sheep holdings annually. Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Applying a record keeping tolerance risks an EU Work and Pensions if he will publish data on the disallowance fine of several millions of pounds and number of appeals made against incapacity benefit doing so in 2011 would have saved only five keepers in reassessment outcomes. [113914] England an estimated total of £2,680 in reductions, although DEFRA continues to keep the situation under Chris Grayling: The requested information is not review. available. The Department does intend to publish appeals data on the number and outcomes of completed appeals WORK AND PENSIONS against work capability assessment outcomes for incapacity benefit reassessment cases. Disability: Employment This data will be released once we have performed the required quality assurance and are satisfied with the Sir Malcolm Bruce: To ask the Secretary of State for quality of the statistics. Work and Pensions what plans he has to provide improved information to employees and employers on Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for the support available to help disabled people move into Work and Pensions what proportion of completed and remain in work; and if he will make a statement. incapacity benefit reassessments have been (a) found [113856] fit for work, (b) placed in the Support Group or (c) Maria Miller: Access to Work provides additional placed in the Work Related Activity Group. [113915] support for individuals whose health or disability affects the way they do their job. Chris Grayling: In March 2012 the Department released During her independent review of specialist disability official statistics on the outcomes of incapacity benefits employment provision, Liz Sayce found Access to Work reassessment claims that had been referred for reassessment to be a highly effective and popular programme and by the end of July 2011. This is the latest data available. recommended that it should be transformed from being The publication can be found on the departmental the best kept secret in Government to being a recognised website at the following link: passport to successful employment. http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/workingage/ We have therefore launched a targeted marketing index.php?page=esa_ibr campaign to increase awareness of the support Access Motability to Work can provide for disabled people both looking for employment and to maintain current employment. Karl McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for The campaign will focus on under-represented groups Work and Pensions what the total cost to the public of disabled people—including those with learning disabilities purse was of assistance provided for taxing vehicles and mental health issues—and employers looking to acquired under the Motability scheme in each region in recruit or retain a disabled person. The overarching each of the last 10 years for which figures are available. objective of the campaign is to increase take up of Access to Work to ensure it is able to support or retain [113847] as many disabled people into employment as possible Maria Miller: All recipients of War Pensioners Mobility and we will work with a wide range of employer and Supplement or the higher rate mobility component of disability organisations to ensure the Access to Work disability living allowance are entitled to an exemption service is effectively promoted. from Vehicle Excise Duty, whether or not they choose Employment and Support Allowance to lease a Motability vehicle. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency are responsible Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for for administering Vehicle Excise Duty exemptions. They Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 23 April have advised that the information requested is not collated 2012, Official Report, column 652W, on employment centrally and can be provided only at disproportionate and support allowance, how many staff based in his cost. 219W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 220W

Universal Credit three years if they have limited capability for work related activity. This is because it is important not to John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for write people off completely, even if an individual is Work and Pensions whether an equality impact unlikely to see an improvement in their condition. assessment has been made of his policy on universal Wherever possible, these reassessments will not involve credit. [111123] a face-to-face assessment and a decision will be made using paper-based evidence. Maria Miller: An equality impact assessment for universal credit was published in November 2011 and is available on the Department’s website at: CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT www.dwp.gov.uk Government Procurement Card John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for potential savings arising through online access to Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport how many universal credit. [111124] procurement card holders in his Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed on a part-time basis and Chris Grayling: The universal credit programme currently (c) employed as a non-permanent employee in (i) estimates that up to half of transactions with claimants 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [113335] will be conducted online from go-live in 2013, building towards a target of 80% by the end of the four year John Penrose: The number of procurement card holders migration window. This delivers an estimated saving of in the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) £62 million in SR10 rising to £240 million per year from who were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed on a 2018-19. part-time basis and (c) employed as a non-permanent employee in (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12 is shown in the John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for following table. Work and Pensions what steps his Department has taken to determine how many benefit recipients are Part-time Non-permanent able to access the internet; and what proportion of Paid off-payroll employees employees benefit claimants his Department estimates will use the 2010-11 1 5 5 internet to access universal credit in (a) 2013, (b) 2014 2011-12 1 5 6 and (c) 2015. [111126] DCMS does not hold information for the financial Chris Grayling: A survey of potential claimants to year 2009-10. universal credit was conducted in 2011 to determine the percentage of claimants who were at that time able to Mobile Phones access the internet. We will publish the results of this survey on 12 July 2012. We expect the proportion of Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for claimants who use the online system, to be in line with Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport with reference to published Cabinet Office guidelines of 80% from 2017 the Government’s response to the report from the onwards. Initial take-up is estimated to be around 50% in Culture, Media and Sport Committee on Spectrum, 2013 and 2014; 55% in 2015 and increase towards the HC 1771, Session 2010-12, whether it remains his target. policy that linking spectrum licence fees to the market value of the spectrum determined by the 4G auction is Work Capability Assessment the most likely way to ensure the fees charged to mobile network operators are fair and appropriate to the Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for market value of their spectrum holdings. [113550] Work and Pensions what issues are taken into account when determining whether to call in a person in receipt Mr Vaizey: The setting of licence fees is a matter for of employment and support allowance for a repeat the regulator, Ofcom. Government directed Ofcom in work capability assessment. [113916] December 2010, once the 4G auction was completed, to revise the licence fees to reflect the full market value of Chris Grayling: As part of the WCA, a healthcare the frequencies and to have particular regard to the professional will give advice on when they think a sums bid for licences in the auction in setting the revised claimant’s functional capability may have changed level of the fees. We remain convinced that this approach sufficiently that a return to work may be possible. is the best way of setting market-based fees for the spectrum in question. They must also give a justification for this advice, which is used by the Department to decide when to Tim Farron: To ask the Secretary of State for reassess claimants. Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what estimate he We recognise that asking customers to attend an has made of the likely date for commencement of the unnecessary examination is in no-one’s interests, for roll-out of 4G; and what steps his Department is example, those people with terminal illnesses will not taking to facilitate this process. [113958] undergo a face-to-face assessment. In addition, claimants who are unlikely to return to Mr Vaizey: The auctioning of 800 MHz and 2.6 GHz work in the longer term will be reassessed after two spectrum is a matter for Ofcom, the Independent regulator. years if they have limited capability for work and after Ofcom remain on schedule for the UK auction process 221W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 222W to start by the end of 2012. This is compatible with the in OECD countries. That part of the publication concerning spectrum becoming available to allow successful bidders antidepressant consumption (section 4.11.2), contains to start rolling out 4G services in these bands in 2013. tables with information on use of antidepressants. Additionally, Ofcom recently undertook a consultation on liberalising the licensing requirements for the 1800 Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health MHz band to allow deployment of 4G services in that for what reasons selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors band. Ofcom’s proposals stemmed from a request from and other antidepressants are not included as part of Everything Everywhere to authorise the use of LTE his Department’s review of policy on addiction to technology under their licences for 1800 MHz spectrum. prescribed medication. [113780] This consultation closed on 8 May 2012 and the responses raised a number of detailed issues that Ofcom must Anne Milton: The generic actions agreed by the expert now consider. Ofcom intend to publish a statement on roundtable which I convened to advise on the prevention the proposed variation as early as possible. and treatment of dependence on medicine are relevant whichever medicine is giving rise to dependence. Olympic Games 2012 The scope for people to experience withdrawal symptoms when they abruptly stop taking Selective Serotonin Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Reuptake Inhibitors (SSRIs) or Selective Norepinephrine Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what plans his Reuptake Inhibitors is well documented. There are warnings Department has for the expected London 2012 about this risk in the product information for prescribers Olympics budget underspend. [113230] and in the Patient Information Leaflets. National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence guidance recommends Hugh Robertson: Any underspend will be shared between that all patients prescribed antidepressants should be the National Lottery, the Government and the Greater informed about the risk of withdrawal reactions and London Authority, as funders of the £9.3 billion Public the importance of gradual withdrawal over several weeks. Sector Funding Package for the Games. In addition, the There is no clinical consensus that the symptoms which National Lottery is entitled to receive £675 million from some people experience when they stop taking SSRIs receipts from the sale of land in the Olympic Park after constitute dependence. the Games. Rural Areas: Broadband Brain and Central Nervous System Tumours

Dr Phillip Lee: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Sheerman: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport what steps he Health for what reasons cases of brain and central plans to take to provide information for the public on nervous system tumours are not systematically and the progress of the rural broadband roll-out consistently registered using NICE classifications programme. [113553] across England. [113889]

Mr Vaizey: I am answering this question because Mr Hurd: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the broadband is within my area of responsibility. Cabinet Office. The Department for Culture Media and Sport (DCMS) The information requested falls within the responsibility provides regular updates on the progress being made on of the UK Statistics Authority. I have asked the authority the rural broadband programme, which can be found to reply. on our website at: Letter from Stephen Penneck, dated June 2012: http://www.culture.gov.uk/what_we_do/ telecommunications_and_online/7763.aspx As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I have been asked to reply to your recent question asking for what Local authorities are leading the rollout in their areas reasons cases of brain and central nervous system tumours are and I anticipate that councils will provide regular updates not systematically and consistently registered using NICE on the progress they are making. classifications across England. [113889] The NICE report on ’Improving Outcomes for People with Brain and Other CNS Tumours’1 classified brain and CNS tumours into seven clinical groups, which are not directly comparable with HEALTH the classification used for statistical purposes. Antidepressants In England, cancer registration is carried out by eight regional registries that collect information on cancers registered to residents of their areas. These cancer registrations are subsequently submitted Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health to ONS as a standard dataset, validated and quality assured. what information his Department holds on the levels of ONS then uses this information to publish National Statistics on prescribing of antidepressant drugs in other countries; cancer incidence and survival for England, for all cancer types. and if he will make a statement. [113513] ONS carries out this work on behalf of the Department of Health, to agreed quality standards, to enable the Department, Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not the NHS and others to monitor changing levels and patterns of held centrally. The Department collects information the disease. relating to England only. The cancer site codes and descriptions used by the cancer registries to submit information to ONS reflect the adoption by The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and the NHS in 1995 of the International Classification of Diseases Development (OECD) publication, ‘Health at a Glance (Tenth Revision, ICD-10), which is published by the World Health 2011’, provides the latest comparable data and trends Organization. Statistics based on ICD-10 are internationally on different aspects of the performance of health systems comparable. 223W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 224W

Brain and Central Nervous System (CNS) tumours are For the Commissioning Outcomes Framework, the systematically and consistently registered by all English cancer National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence registries. All brain and CNS tumours are registrable conditions, (NICE) published a list of potential indicators as part and so ONS receives data on all malignant, benign and unknown/ of their public consultation on 1 February. This list uncertain behaviour brain and CNS cancers diagnosed in the population of England. included an appendix of further potential indicators to The latest published figures on incidence of cancer in England be considered for future development as they would not are available on the National Statistics website: be ready for April 2013. The appendix included an http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/vsob1/cancer-registrations-in- indicator on patient experience of cancer services. NICE’s england/2010/index.html independent advisory committee met in public on The latest published figures on cancer survival in England are 21-22 May to consider the evidence base. NICE, is available on the National Statistics website. expected to publish recommendations on 1 August. The http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/cancer-unit/cancer-survival/ NHS Commissioning Board will then make decisions index.html on the shape of the framework for 2013-14. 1 National Institute for Health & Clinical Excellence (2006). “Improving Outcomes for People with Brain and Other CNS Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Tumours”. Available from: for Health if he will include one and five year survival http://www.nice.org.uk rates of all types of cancer in the NHS Outcomes Framework and the Commissioning Outcomes Cancer Framework. [113933]

Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Paul Burstow: The indicators in the NHS Outcomes for Health if he will ensure that the NHS Framework were selected to provide a balanced focus, Commissioning Board provides cancer networks with to reflect the breadth of national health service activity. adequate funding beyond 2013 and that they are We are currently considering whether it is possible to closely involved in the development of the new system. develop a composite indicator showing one-year survival [113421] rates for all cancers, to replace some or all of the individual survival rate indicators. Paul Burstow: We have made it clear that there is a role for clinical networks, such as cancer networks, in The Commissioning Outcomes Framework will be the new health system, as a place where clinicians from developed by the NHS Commissioning Board, informed different sectors come together to improve the quality by advice from the National Institute for Health and of care across integrated, pathways. Clinical Excellence (NICE). NICE published a list of potential, measures for the Commissioning Outcomes The cancer networks are a clear example of how this Framework for public consultation in February. The way of working delivers better quality. That is why the consultation included indicators on five-year survival Secretary of State for Health, the right hon. Member rates for specific cancers, and some potential indicators for South Cambridgeshire (Mr Lansley), announced in for one-year survival rates and patient experience of May 2011 that cancer networks would continue to be cancer services. NICE’s independent advisory committee funded in 2012-13 and that the NHS Commissioning met in public to consider the evidence base on 21-22 May. Board (NHS CB) would support strengthened cancer NICE are expected to publish their recommendations networks. on 1 August. The NHS Commissioning Board will then The review of clinical networks, including cancer make decisions on the shape of the framework for networks, has been considering the functions, structures 2013-14. and governance that will most effectively support commissioners to improve outcomes for patients. The Cancer: Children review has received input from over 800 stakeholders, including representatives from cancer networks. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for The NHS CB authority will publish its recommendations Health what funding his Department has allocated for for clinical networks in the new health system in summer. research and development of genetic therapies to treat cancer in children in (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13, (c) Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State 2013-14, (d) 2014-15 and (e) 2015-16. [113287] for Health if he will consider developing an indicator based on the National Cancer Patient Experience in the Paul Burstow: In August 2011, the Government NHS Outcomes Framework and Commissioning announced £800 million investment over five years from Outcomes Framework to incentivise improvements at April 2012 in a series of National Institute for Health local level. [113422] Research (NIHR) biomedical research centres and units. From this investment, £0.7 million will fund research on Paul Burstow: We will shortly be publishing the results gene therapy for cancer in children. from the national Cancer Patient Experience Survey Total expenditure on gene therapy for cancer in children 2011 and we expect that they would continue to be used in each year from 2012-13 to 2015-16 through research in supporting local action to bring about improvements. programmes, research centres and units, and research The current focus of patient experience measures in training awards will depend on the volume and quality the NHS Outcomes Framework takes a generic approach of scientific activity. The usual practice of the NIHR is recognising that people often have more than one condition. not to ring-fence funds for expenditure on particular While we are committed to keeping the framework topics: research proposals in all areas compete for the under review, we are keen to maintain this balance so funding available. The NIHR welcomes funding applications that the framework represents the breadth of national for research into any aspect of human health, including health service activity. gene therapy for cancer in children. These applications 225W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 226W are subject to peer review and judged in open competition, The Department is developing an Outcomes Strategy, with awards being made on the basis of the scientific which aims to improve the quality of health care services quality of the proposals made. and outcomes for children and young people. The strategy The Department funded no research on gene therapy focuses on the themes of public health, acutely sick for cancer in children in 2011-12 through research children, mental health and long-term medical conditions. programmes, research centres and units, and research training awards. Diabetes

Community Nurses Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for Health what steps his Department is taking to promote Mr Virendra Sharma: To ask the Secretary of State the prevention and early identification of diabetes. for Health what steps he is taking to improve access to [113691] 24/7 community nursing. [113522] Paul Burstow: The Government is committed to the Anne Milton: Local health care organisations decide prevention of Type 2 diabetes. All work on promoting how best to use their funds to meet national and local an active lifestyle and tackling obesity will support this priorities and to determine the work force required to aim. It is important to identify people with diabetes meet people’s needs locally, including the provision of early to ensure that they receive prompt treatment to 24 hours a day community nursing care. manage their diabetes and to help delay or prevent long-term complications of the condition. The Department is working with community nurses and professional organisations as part of a development Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for programme to scope a renewed model for community Health what his Department’s strategy is for dealing nursing, focusing on district nursing services. with diabetes. [113692]

Congenital Abnormalities Paul Burstow: The Department is currently producing three policy documents which will directly influence the Mrs Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for Health commissioning and development of diabetes services: (1) what steps he is taking to monitor people affected the Diabetes Action Plan, the Long Term Conditions by foetal anti-convulsion disorder as they make the (LTC) Outcomes Strategy (which will include a diabetes transition into adulthood; and if he will make a companion document), and the Cardiovascular Disease statement; [113232] (CVD) Outcomes Strategy. (2) what estimate he has made of the number of The Diabetes Action Plan will set out the actions the people affected by foetal anti-convulsive syndrome national health service is taking to increase identification owing to NHS prescriptions of (a) phenytoin, (b) and improve prevention and treatment of diabetes, and carbamazepine and (c) sodium valproate; and if he will be published later this year. will make a statement. [113233] The Long Term Conditions Outcomes Strategy is aimed at improving outcomes for all people with LTCs. Anne Milton: We have made no estimate of the number The strategy will look at all of the aspects that impact of people affected by foetal anti-convulsive syndrome, on the lives of people with LTCs, and outline how the nor is the Department monitoring people affected by key players (Government Departments, local authorities, the condition as they make the transition into adulthood. charities and individuals) can act in future in order to We recognise the importance of effective transition reduce LTC incidence, and improve outcomes for those between children’s and adults’ services. It is for local with LTCs. We aim to publish the strategy towards the health service organisations to commission a comprehensive end of 2012, and a companion document on diabetes service for all people within their local communities, will be published at the same time. including adolescents and adults and those moving The Cardiovascular Disease Outcomes Strategy will through transition. Clinical commissioning groups, working outline how the health care system can improve outcomes in conjunction with Health and Wellbeing Boards, will for people with—or people at risk of—CVD. The strategy be required to take account of their population’s needs will consider the whole of the patient pathway from and commission and provide services accordingly. prevention through to long term care. As diabetes is a There are initiatives being undertaken by Government major risk factor for CVD, it will be considered as part that are seeking to improve health related services for of the strategy’s development. children and young people. Many of the outcomes within the NHS Outcomes Drugs: Misuse Framework, which sets the national outcomes that the national health service should be aiming to achieve, Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for seek to make improvements for children and young Health if he will estimate the cost to the NHS of the people specifically.The Public Health Outcomes Framework illegal use of controlled substances in (a) England, (b) also helps set a clear direction for children’s health. the East Midlands, (c) Nottinghamshire and (d) The Commissioning Board will also have a role in Ashfield constituency. [113920] commissioning certain services, for example, highly specialised services for children and young people with Anne Milton: I refer the hon. Member to the written a disability, where, the numbers requiring such services answer I gave the hon. Member for Middlesbrough in an area are too low for it to be viable for these South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) on 24 May services to be commissioned locally. 2012, Official Report, column 859W. 227W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 228W

Energy GPC data period Publication date

Caroline Flint: To ask the Secretary of State for December 2011 29 February 2012 Health whether his Department switched its (a) gas or January 2012 30 March 2012 (b) electricity supplier in any of the last 10 years. February 2012 30 April 2012 [113459] Mr Simon Burns: The Department has switched its Health gas and electricity supplier on a number of occasions over the last 10 years. The latest change of supplier has Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State taken place from 1 April 2012. for Health (1) what changes he plans to make to the This latest change of supplier was organised through formula for the allocation of the public health funding a framework with the Government Procurement Service to local authorities; [113655] (GPS). All GPS frameworks are awarded on the basis of (2) what account will be taken of population (a) age a fully competitive process governed by Official Journal and (b) deprivation in determining public health of the European Union rules. Under Cabinet Office allocations to local authorities; and if he will make a guidance, GPS is also the recognised provider for all statement. [113656] central Government energy supplies. The latest change of suppliers have been as follows: Anne Milton: On 14 June, the public health finance Gas from Total Gas and Power to Corona; update document, ‘Healthy Lives, Healthy People: Update Electricity Non Half Hourly for Scottish and Southern Energy on Public Health Funding’, was published. A copy has to British Gas; and already been placed in the Library and the document Half Hourly from Scottish and Southern Energy to EDF can be accessed on the Department’s website at: Energy. www.dh.gov.uk/health/2012/06/ph-funding-la Government Procurement Card This document sets out the Advisory Committee on Resource Allocation’s (ACRA) interim recommendations Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for on the public health allocations formula, gives an update Health how many procurement card holders in his on the health premium and sets out proposed conditions Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed for the ring-fenced public health grant including proposals on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a non- for local authority reporting on public health spend. permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and (iii) 2011-12. [113341] ACRA’s interim formula is based principally on a measure of population health that will be applied to Mr Simon Burns: The breakdown by staff type of small areas. This means that funding is targeted towards government procurement card holders is given in the those areas with the poorest health outcomes and greatest following table. It should be noted that our cardholder deprivation. Building up from small areas means the records do not distinguish between full-time and part-time formula can take account of pockets of deprivation in civil servants. For the purposes of this response the local authorities that otherwise have good health outcomes. term ‘non-permanent-employees’ has been defined as These are interim recommendations. As part of this ‘on-payroll staff on fixed term contracts’. publication, ACRA identified areas needing further Off-payroll staff includes those seconded into the work before making its final recommendations for the Department from other organisations to fulfil a civil formula for making 2013-14 allocations. This includes service role, such as from national health service bodies consideration of an adjustment for the age profile of and other Government Departments. the population. The Department is now undertaking a focussed On payroll On payroll Total permanent fixed term Off payroll cardholders engagement process with a full range of stakeholders including public health and local government representatives 2009-10 424 1 15 440 and the wider national health service community. This 2010-11 338 2 20 360 feedback will help the work to finalise ACRA’s 2011-12 289 4 21 314 recommendations to support the 2013-14 allocations to local authorities. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Health on which dates his Department has published Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Government procurement card spending over £500 for Health what training and guidance his Department since May 2010. [113359] plans to provide prior to implementing new public health duties for local authorities; and if he will make a Mr Simon Burns: Government procurement card (GPC) statement. [113657] data for the Department have been published on the Department’s web site since October 2011. The following table gives the publication dates: Anne Milton: The Department is continuing to work with key stakeholders including the Local Government GPC data period Publication date Association to produce a number of guidance documents prior to transferring public health duties to local authorities. April 2011 to August 2011 27 October 2011 September 2011 30 December 2011 Documents already published include information October 2011 30 December 2011 on the range of functions transferring, including emergency November 2011 31 January 2012 preparedness and health protection issues, and are available on the Department and LGA websites. 229W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 230W

We are also discussing with employers and employee Health Visitors: Recruitment representatives in the national health service and local authorities to agree and produce guidance on the smooth Mr Ward: To ask the Secretary of State for Health transfer of staff, their rights on transfer and the (1) how many additional Sure Start health visitors have responsibilities of councils as the new employers, bearing been recruited since May 2010; [113922] in mind varying local circumstances. (2) when he expects his target to recruit 4,200 Later this year we will be publishing statutory guidance additional Sure Start health visitors will be met. on the role of the Director of Public Health and a [113923] Public Health Workforce Strategy, which will consider the training requirements and career development of Anne Milton: The number of health visitors recorded staff in the new public health system. on the NHS Electronic Staff Record (ESR) in March 2012 was 8,199 full-time equivalents. This represents an increase of 1.3% (107 full-time equivalents) since May Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010. Health what split of public health responsibilities he Additionally, strategic health authorities report there proposes between Public Health England and local were over 200 full-time equivalent health visitors not authorities. [113757] recorded on ESR at this time—for example, those working in organisations such as local authorities and social Anne Milton: Sections 11 and 12 of the Health and enterprises. Social Care Act 2012 confer separate, but related, public “The Health Visitor Implementation Plan 2011 to health duties on the Secretary of State and on upper tier 15—A Call to Action”, (published in February 2011), and unitary local authorities in England. From April set out plans, accountabilities and partnership working 2013 the Secretary of State will have a duty to take the related to the growth of the health visitor workforce. A steps he considers appropriate to protect the health of copy has already been placed in the Library. The the people of England. As well as this general duty the Department has put in place a four year transformational Act sets out some specific functions of the Secretary of programme of recruitment and retention, professional State, including existing statutory functions of the Health development and improved commissioning linked to Protection Agency (which the Act abolishes). Public public health improvement. This programme of activity Health England will be an executive agency of the is on track to deliver an increase in the workforce of Department’s, established to undertake the Secretary of 4,200 full-time equivalent health visitors by April 2015. State’s duties. The duty on local authorities is to take the steps they Homeopathy consider appropriate to improve the health of the people in their area. The Act gives the Secretary of State the George Freeman: To ask the Secretary of State for power to prescribe in regulations particular steps that Health whether his Department has made any estimate local authorities must take. On 20 December 2011 the of the (a) funding and (b) bed capacity that would Department published a series of fact sheets describing need to be made available in the event that a full range roles and responsibilities in the reformed public health of homeopathic remedies were to be provided by the system. The fact sheet “Public health in local government: NHS; and if he will make a statement. [113235] local government’s new public health functions” sets Anne Milton: The Department has made no such out those services that the Secretary of State for Health, assessment. my right hon. Friend the Member for South Cambridgeshire The Department does not maintain a position on any (Mr Lansley) intends to prescribe in regulations, and particular complementary or alternative therapy including “Public health in local, government: commissioning homeopathy. It is the responsibility of local national responsibilities” lists other public health services that health service organisations to make decisions on the local authorities will be responsible for commissioning commissioning and funding of such treatments, taking from 2013. Copies of these fact sheets have been placed account of issues to do with safety, clinical and cost- in the Library. effectiveness and the availability of suitably qualified/ regulated practitioners. Health Services: Channel Islands Malnutrition

Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for when officials from his Department last met officials Health what consideration he has given to the use of from the (a) Health and Wellbeing Department in incentives to improve the standard of nutritional care Jersey and (b) Health and Social Services Department in (a) hospitals, (b) care homes and (c) general in Guernsey; and what issues were discussed at those practice; and if he will make a statement. [113636] meetings. [113787] Paul Burstow: For hospitals on national health service national standard contracts, NHS commissioners can Anne Milton: Officials from the Department and the already choose the Commissioning for Quality and Governments of Jersey and Guernsey were among the Innovation framework to reward providers for ambitious participants at the meeting of the British Irish improvements in nutritional care. This is a locally agreed Council’s Sectoral Group on the Misuse of Drugs incentive scheme, which can also be offered to providers which met on 29 May. The main discussion topic was on joint NHS and local authority contracts, which may the problem of addiction to medicine and approaches include patients receiving continuing NHS care in care to tackling it. homes. 231W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 232W

Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for mealtimes for those who are unable to provide feedback Health how the Care Quality Commission’s second due to their cognitive or communication impairments. phase of the Dignity and Nutrition Inspection The assessment of the quality of nutritional care by Programme will assess the quality of nutritional care domiciliary care services is not a feature of the themed provided by home care or domiciliary care services; inspection programmes CQC is running at present. and if he will make a statement. [113638] The CQC undertake regular planned and responsive inspections of domiciliary care agencies, if inspectors Paul Burstow: The Care Quality Commission (CQC) identify concerns during these inspections that relate to has provided the following information. nutritional care they have the option to review this The second phase of Dignity and Nutrition Inspections outcome area (Outcome 5—Meeting nutritional needs). are split into two programmes, one involving 500 inspections Mental Illness of care homes, the other 50 inspections of national health service trusts. Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many and what proportion of (a) adults and (b) As part of its assessment the CQC inspectors will children were diagnosed with mental illness in each speak to users of the services and their relatives, observe year for which figures are available. [113515] the interaction between patients/people and staff as well as reviewing documentation including care plans Paul Burstow: This information is not collected centrally and speaking to staff. The inspectors will use direct as the data sources do not include primary care where a observation of mealtimes, including evening meals and large proportion of mental health care takes place. weekends to assess whether the nutritional and hydration In-patient (HES) data only cover secondary care and needs of individuals are being met. They will look at the Mental Health Minimum Dataset (MHMDS) is service users’ records to see how nutrition and hydration based on secondary care and does not include children. are monitored. Inspectors will also make use of a short However, the Health and Social Care Information Centre observational framework designed to help understand MHMDS 2003-04 to 2010-11 annual returns provides the quality of the experiences of people including during the following:

Number of people using adult and elderly NHS funded1 secondary mental health services, 2003-04 to 2010-11 NHS providers only 2003-04 2004-05 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 2009-10 2010-11

Total number 1,079,016 1,132,434 1,149,472 1,151,260 1,190,542 1,222,365 1,270,731 1,285,594 of people

Admitted 113,772 114,435 111,088 106,561 105,719 102,571 107,765 104,645 Non-admitted 814,252 916,534 930,374 936,629 982,704 1,026,366 1,078,091 1,094,138 No care 150,992 101,465 108,010 108,070 102,119 93,428 84,875 86,811 1 Includes services provided by independent sector providers.

2010-11 NHS Walk-in Centres: Closures Independent sector All providers providers Gloria De Piero: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many NHS walk-in centres have closed Total number of 2,136 1,287,730 people since June 2010. [113912] Mr Simon Burns: The information requested is not Admitted 2,074 106,719 held centrally. Non-admitted 0 1,094,138 Out of Area Treatment: North East No care 62 86,873 Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State Source: for Health how many patients registered at an address Health and Social Care Information Centre MHMDS 2003/04 to 2010-11 annual returns. in the North East received treatment at a hospital in another region of England in each month since May 2010. [113658] While no estimate has been made on the number of children diagnosed with mental illness, information on Mr Simon Burns: Data showing the count of finished the prevalence of mental disorders in children and admission episodes. where the strategic health authority young people has been published by other organisations. (SHA) of residence is the North East, and the SHA of The Mental Health of Children and Adolescents in the main provider is elsewhere in England for the period Great Britain, 2004 (ONS) reported that 9.6% of 5 to May 2010 to February 2012 is shown in the following 16-year-olds had a clinically recognisable mental disorder. table.

Activity in English NHS hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector Yorkshire South North and the East West East of East South South West Humber Midlands Midlands England London Coast Central West Total

May 2010 130 119 13 22 27 78 6 21 19 435 June 2010 120 120 25 22 22 66 11 19 34 439 233W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 234W

Activity in English NHS hospitals and English NHS commissioned activity in the independent sector Yorkshire South North and the East West East of East South South West Humber Midlands Midlands England London Coast Central West Total

July 2010 120 151 19 28 33 84 15 17 26 493 August 2010 128 152 39 31 40 84 16 25 52 567 September 2010 129 129 20 16 25 82 17 11 21 450 October 2010 96 113 26 25 23 70 19 10 26 408 November 2010 102 102 18 16 11 76 * * 16 356 December 2010 95 90 13 17 22 48 10 11 19 325 January 2011 96 122 20 27 20 68 15 7 18 393 February 2011 102 98 12 15 14 48 * * 25 330 March 2011 89 101 21 17 21 51 18 15 23 356 April 2011 117 124 21 22 29 62 * * 20 410 May 2011 115 124 22 21 28 54 15 12 23 414 June 2011 131 118 35 27 25 68 13 17 31 465 July 2011 128 118 34 27 33 77 19 14 25 475 August 2011 136 152 36 26 23 90 23 23 36 545 September 2011 128 110 15 22 30 81 21 17 23 447 October 2011 114 124 21 19 22 68 10 11 12 401 November 2011 130 115 17 18 19 68 6 14 19 406 December 2011 101 100 22 30 31 71 18 25 24 422 January 2012 108 98 29 26 17 65 10 17 7 377 February 2012 97 101 12 16 28 45 6 21 16 342 Notes: 1. A finished admission episode (FAE) is the first period of inpatient care under one consultant within one healthcare provider. FAEs are counted against the year in which the admission episode finishes. Admissions do not represent the number of inpatients, as a person may have more than one admission within the year. 2. The strategic health authority (SHA) or primary care trust (PCT) of residence is that which contains the patient’s normal home address. This does not necessarily reflect where the patient was treated, as they may have travelled to another SHA or PCT for treatment. 3. The SHA of main provider is the area where patients were treated, not necessarily where they live or where they were injured. 4. HES figures are available from 1989-90 onwards. Changes to the figures over time need to be interpreted in the context of improvements in data quality and coverage (particularly in earlier years), improvements in coverage of independent sector activity (particularly from 2006-07) and changes in NHS practice. For example, apparent reductions in activity may be due to a number of procedures which may now be undertaken in outpatient settings and so no longer included in admitted patient HES data. 5. Data from April 2011 to February 2012 is provisional. Where data is provisional it may be incomplete or contain errors for which no adjustments have yet been made. Counts produced from provisional data are likely to be lower than those generated for the same period in the final dataset. This shortfall will be most pronounced in the final month of the latest period, i.e, November from the (month 9) April to November extract. It is also probable that clinical data are not complete, which may in particular affect the last two months of any given period. There may also be errors due to coding inconsistencies that have not yet been investigated and corrected. 6. To protect patient confidentiality, figures between one and five have been replaced with ″*″ (an asterisk). Where it was still possible to identify numbers from the total an additional number (the next smallest) has been replaced. Source: Hospital Episode Statistics (HES), Health and Social Care Information Centre

Primary Care Trusts Board Authority. At a local level, it is intended to continue with the existing arrangements that PCT clusters Mr Nicholas Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for currently have in place for the operational management Health what arrangements he plans to put in place for of their estates and facilities, in the immediate to medium the future management of former primary care trusts’ term. property portfolios; and what his plans are for the management of that estate in the medium term. Royal College of General Practitioners [113756] Mr Simon Burns: All existing primary care trust Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health (PCT) property will transfer on 31 March 2013 to either whether a drug policy official from his Department national health service providers or NHS Property Services attended the Royal College of General Practitioners’ Ltd. The Department announced in August 2011 that 17th National Conference. [113782] NHS providers would be given the opportunity to acquire ‘service critical clinical infrastructure’. The solution for Anne Milton: On 11 May 2012, two officials from the the remaining estate, a limited company wholly owned Department gave presentations on the misuse of prescribed by the Secretary of State for Health, ‘NHS Property medications and on payment by results for drug and Services Ltd’ (NHS PS), was announced in January alcohol recovery at the conference on managing drug 2012. and alcohol problems in primary care which was organised NHS PS will hold property for use by community by the Royal College of General Practitioners. and primary care services, cut the costs of administering the estate by consolidating the management of over 150 Tranquillisers: Misuse estates and dispose of property identified by the local NHS as surplus to requirements, in order to return vital Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for Health funds to frontline NHS services. if his Department will make an assessment of the While it is a national company, NHS PS will also survey of services provided for involuntary have a regional management structure, with four regions tranquilliser addiction by the All Party Parliamentary co-terminus with those of the NHS Commissioning Group for Involuntary Tranquilliser Addiction. [113781] 235W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 236W

Anne Milton: We welcome the initiative of the All (a) Bexleyheath and Crayford constituency and (b) Party Parliamentary Group for Involuntary Tranquilliser the London Borough of Bexley (i) started and (ii) Addiction in working with local areas to collect information completed a course at an adult education college in on the provision of services for people who are addicted each of the last five years. [113226] to benzodiazepines and z drugs. The responses provided from primary care trusts illustrate both the way that in some areas general practitioners are working with other agencies to give people the vital support that they need, Mr Hayes: Table 1 shows Government-funded further and highlights the need for further improvement. education and skills learner participation and achievements in general further education colleges in Bexleyheath and Crayford parliamentary constituency and the London BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS borough of Bexley local authority, by age, for academic Adult Education: Bexley years 2006/07 to 2010/11, the latest full years for which final data are available. Mr Evennett: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills how many residents of

Table 1: General further education colleges learner participation and achievement by geography and age, 2006/07 to 2010/11 Age 2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11

Participation Bexleyheath and Crayford Under 19 930 1,040 1,010 1,080 1,080 constituency 19+ 1,370 1,710 1,730 1,460 1,230 Total 2,300 2,750 2,740 2,530 2,310

Bexley Local Authority Under 19 2,460 2,630 2,590 2,680 2,610 19+ 3,750 4,250 4,500 3,880 3,310 Total 6,210 6,880 7,090 6,560 5,920

England Under 19 630,630 654,060 662,530 682,240 694,460 19+ 1,573,700 1,551,600 1,768,040 1,635,590 1,338,480 Total 2,204,300 2,205,700 2,430,600 2,317,800 2,032,900

Achievement Bexleyheath and Crayford Under 19 670 740 770 830 880 constituency 19+ 910 1,120 1,290 1,010 900 Total 1,570 1,860 2,060 1,840 1,780

Bexley Local Authority Under 19 1,780 1,860 1,930 2,060 2,110 19+ 2,440 2,720 3,280 2,710 2,420 Total 4,220 4,580 5,220 4,770 4,530

England Under 19 457,610 489,320 521,120 546,780 558,360 19+ 1,089,100 1,060,260 1,221,600 1,187,170 975,860 Total 1,541,700 1,549,600 1,742,700 1,734,000 1,534,200 Notes: 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10 except for the England totals which are rounded to the nearest 100. 2. Geography is based upon the home postcode of the learner. Geographic information is based on boundaries of regions as of May 2010. The England totals include some postcodes which are not known. 3. These data include both young people (under 19) and adults (aged 19+) participating in Apprenticeships, Workplace Learning, Community Learning and Education and Training provision taken at General Further Education Colleges (Including Tertiary) only. 4. Age is based on age at the start of the academic year. Source: Individualised Learner Record

Information on further education and skills participation Business: Complaints and achievement by geography is published in a supplementary table of a quarterly Statistical First Release Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for (SFR). The latest SFR was published on 29 March Business, Innovation and Skills whether his 2012: Department has had discussions with representatives http://www.thedataservice.org.uk/statistics/ of small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) statisticalfirstrelease/sfr_supplementary_tables/ regarding granting SME representative bodies super complaint status in the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill; and which bodies were consulted. [113067] 237W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 238W

Norman Lamb [holding answer 21 June 2012]: The Conditions of Employment Government consulted on proposals to grant SMEs representative bodies super-complainant status in a public Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for consultation on competition reform, ’A Competition Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer Regime for Growth: A Consultation on Options for of 11 June 2012, Official Report, column 292W, on Reform’. During the consultation period officials at the conditions of employment, how many meetings Adrian Department for Business Innovation and Skills held Beecroft had with policy officials across Government; discussions on the proposals contained in that document and how many factual questions were responded to by with a number of stakeholders including the Forum of such officials. [113113] Private Business, British Chambers of Commerce and the Confederation of British Industry (CBI). Norman Lamb: Adrian Beecroft had 22 meetings Cancer: Research with policy officials across Government, half of which included other Government Departments. These meetings Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for were to provide information about employment related Business, Innovation and Skills what funding his law to assist him in making his personal contributions Department has allocated for research and to the red tape challenge, and as such it is impossible to development of genetic therapies to treat cancer in quantify the number of factual questions to which children in (a) 2011-12, (b) 2012-13, (c) 2013-14, (d) officials responded. 2014-15 and (e) 2015-16. [113286] Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Willetts: The Medical Research Council (MRC) Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer is one of the main agencies through which the Government of 13 June 2012, Official Report, column 510W, on supports medical and clinical research, including cancer conditions of employment, if he will publish the letter research. sent by the former Minister for Employment Relations, The MRC does not normally allocate funding for Consumer and Postal Affairs to Adrian Beecroft on specific disease areas and future research funding is 29 July 2011 to commission the report. [113114] dependent on the quality and strategic relevance of proposals submitted by the research community and is Norman Lamb: We have placed a copy of the letter in determined through peer review. Information on future the Libraries of both Houses. funding that may be awarded for this area is not available. Consultants However, the MRC would welcome proposals which may support research leading to the development of genetic therapies to treat cancer in children. This may Jonathan Ashworth: To ask the Secretary of State for include fundamental research through to pre-clinical Business, Innovation and Skills what the cost was to his development, and early clinical testing of novel therapeutics, Department of the use of external consultants in each devices and diagnostics. of the last two years. [110617] In 2010 the MRC’s overall expenditure on cancer was 1 Norman Lamb: I refer the hon. Member to the answer £107.9 million . This includes a broad portfolio of I gave on 11 June 2012, Official Report, column 292W. site-specific and general underpinning cancer research some of which will be relevant to cancer in children. Environment Protection The MRC does not hold a breakdown of expenditure on research directly relating to research and development Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for of genetic therapies to treat cancer in children. It would Business, Innovation and Skills what programmes his not be possible to undertake the necessary analysis in Department has put in place to encourage development the time available. of the UK’s green economy. [113530] 1 Source—National Cancer Research Institute CaRD Competition and Markets Authority Mr Prisk: Last year the Government published “Enabling the Transition to a Green Economy” which will serve as Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for a tool to inform continuing dialogue between government, Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions on the business and communities. It sets out the range of resource requirements of the merged Competition and policies we are using to support the transition to a green Mergers Authority his Department had with (a) the economy, the opportunities that are created and the Office of Fair Trading and (b) the Competition implications for the way in which businesses operate. Commission. [113833] The Department for Business, Innovation and Skills has a number of programmes that are relevant to the Norman Lamb [holding answer 25 June 2012]: The development of the UK’s green economy. Among them Government is working closely with the Office of Fair is the £125 million Advanced Manufacturing Supply Trading (OFT) and the Competition Commission (CC) Chain fund, which aims to increase growth potential in in planning for the transition to the Competition and manufacturing by improving the competitiveness of Markets Authority (CMA) and has established a CMA supply chains, and is open to businesses in the renewable Transition Board whose key purpose is to oversee the energy and other low carbon sectors. There is also creation of the CMA and plan for the transition from support available to the supply chain through the Regional CC and OFT. The board member organisations are the Growth Fund, which several companies involved in Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, HM renewable energy have benefited from. The Department Treasury, OFT and CC. When appointed the CMA is also supporting innovation through the Technology Chair-designate will chair the CMA Transition Board. Strategy Board’s catapult centres, one of which is the 239W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 240W

Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre that is able Ensuring businesses can access the finance they need to provide engineering expertise for new technology Ensuring the flow of credit to viable SMEs is essential development. The Manufacturing Advisory Service includes for supporting growth and is a core priority for this within its remit low carbon and supply chain diversification Government. Government have: themes. Introduced a new National Loan Guarantee scheme: up to The Government recognises that development of £20 billion of guarantees for bank funding will be available over appropriate skills is an important part of the green two years allowing banks to offer lower cost lending to SMEs. economy. A report “Skills for a Green Economy” was Increased the funds available to invest through the Business published in October 2011, and maps out possible skills Finance Partnership (BFP) to £1.2 billion. Government have needs and gaps across different green sectors. The invited the first round of proposals to help businesses access Government has put learners and employers in the non-bank finance through the BFP, and will allocate £100 million driving seat, giving them the support, funding and of the BFP to invest through non-traditional lending channels. information to make the right choices and to help Announced the continuation of the Enterprise Finance Guarantee employers shape the skills system. Taken together, we scheme until 2014/15, providing, subject to demand, over £2 billion in total over the next four years. are creating a strong and flexible platform to meet the skills needs for the green economy transition. Announced continuation of the Government’s Enterprise Capital Funds programme, increasing our commitment by £200 million The UK Green Investment Bank (UK GIB) is being over the next four years, providing for more than £300 million of developed as a key component of the Government’s venture capital investment to address the equity gap for early transition to a green and growing economy. The Bank’s stage innovative SMEs. mission is Launched a new Startup Loan scheme to provide advice and ‘to provide financial solutions to accelerate private sector start-up finance for 18-24 year olds looking to start their own investment in the UK’s transition to a green economy’. business. Funded with £3 billion, it will tackle finance gaps which Encouraged Business Angel investment through a new £50 million Business Angel Co- Investment Fund. still remain despite a range of strong policies to incentivise green investments. It will work towards a ’double bottom We know that positive encouragement is also necessary line’ of both achieving environmental policies and making to show that starting a business is a great idea. You may positive financial returns. be aware that my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister, has appointed my Noble Friend Lord Youngof Graffham New Businesses: Government Assistance to advise on small business and enterprise issues. A key objective of my Noble Friend Lord Young’s work is to Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for demonstrate that this is a great time to start a business, Business, Innovation and Skills what plans his with record numbers of people becoming their own boss, supported by a wide range of help and encouragement Department has to assist start-up businesses. [113532] to entrepreneurs from all ages and backgrounds. On 28 May, my Noble Friend Lord Young published his Mr Prisk: We want to make the UK the best place in independent report on small business and enterprise, the world to start and grow a business, and for the next entitled “Make Business Your Business”. The report decade to be the most entrepreneurial and dynamic in includes a guide to starting and developing a business Britain’s history. That is why, in January, my right hon. which showcases much of the support on offer. The Friend the Prime Minister, launched “Business in You”, report can be accessed at: a major year-long campaign, to inspire people to realise their business ambitions and to highlight the range of http://www.startupbritain.org/resource/binary/userfiles/ support available for start-ups and growing businesses. Make_Business_Your_Business_2.pdf We will continue to work with the SME community We recognise that these are challenging times for new to explore barriers to business start-up and to develop businesses. In addition to ensuring that we have the policies to help address these barriers. right environment to help businesses grow, for example through reducing red tape and enabling small and medium- Office of Fair Trading: Competition Commission sized enterprises (SMEs) more easily to access public procurement opportunities, we have introduced a range Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for of measures to encourage people to set up their own Business, Innovation and Skills what savings his business. Department has estimated will arise from the proposed Ensuring individuals can access the support and advice merger of the Office of Fair Trading and the they need to start and grow their business Competition Commission over and above those We have transformed the way that we enable people expected from the 2010 Spending Review. [113068] to access the information, guidance and advice they need to start and grow a business. We have put in place a Norman Lamb [holding answer 21 June 2012]: The range of services including; Government has always made clear that the main purpose An improved: of creating the new Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) and implementing reforms is to strengthen the www.businesslink.gov.uk competition regime to support growth. Savings will website including My New Business, a comprehensive start-up mainly be from streamlining, and eliminating overlaps service. between the phase 1 and phase 2 of investigations. The A Business Link helpline which will support those who are impact assessment identified the potential costs and unable to access the internet. savings and quantified some of these. In preparing for A mentoring portal the transition to the new CMA Government will continue www.mentorsme.co.uk to refine these estimates as the structure and nature of providing an easy route to find experienced business mentors. the transition becomes clearer. 241W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 242W

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Government is committed to ensuring that publicly Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has funded research should be accessible free of charge. The made of the potential number of investigations that Government’s approach was further explained in my would be delayed during the merger of the speech to the Publishers’ Association of 2 May 2012, Competition Commission and the Office of Fair see Trading. [113159] www.bis.gov.uk/news/speeches/david-willetts-public-access-to- research Norman Lamb [holding answer 21 June 2012]: Ministers consider the work of the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) As stated in paragraph 6.8 of the strategy, see and Competition Commission to be vital to the economy. http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/biscore/innovation/docs/i/11- The Government is committed to ensuring a smooth 1387-innovation-and-research-strategy-for-growth.pdf transition process and will work closely with OFT and “Government will work with partners, including the publishing Competition Commission to minimise disruption to the industry, to achieve free access to publicly-funded research as organisations while they continue to carry out their soon as possible and will set an example itself. important roles and services. We have helped establish an independent working group chaired by Janet Finch to consider how to improve access to research Overseas Trade publications, including publicly-funded research. The Royal Society is considering how to improve the sharing Jim Dobbin: To ask the Secretary of State for and disclosing of research data, both within the research community Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the and beyond. recommendations by the British Chambers of Alan Langlands is chairing a task force to advise on improving Commerce in its report entitled Exporting is Good for the accessibility of data within Government and its agencies, Britain but Red Tape Stifles Growth, if he will take which will advise on data linkage, conditions of access and data further steps to open up new markets to UK exporters quality. This will report during 2012.” through free trade arrangements. [113784] The Government will consider further steps in light Mr Prisk: The British Government supports the call of the findings and recommendations from these groups. made by the British Chambers of Commerce in its Both the Finch Group and Royal Society studies have paper. now reported, see The Government is strongly committed to pursuing www.researchinfonet.org/publish/finch trade liberalisation, which benefits the UK not only in and terms of new markets for UK exporters, but also through www.royalsociety.org/policy/projects/science-public-enterprise greater access to innovation, productive inputs and consumer goods. For this reason, the Government has, the Government is now considering their findings and for example, led calls in the EU for the opening of recommendations. negotiations for an EU-Japan Free Trade Agreement; The Government will be issuing a response to the and for negotiations with Singapore and Canada to be Finch Group in consultation with relevant research concluded this year. The British Government has also funding bodies. been the strongest advocate in the EU for launching negotiations with the US to increase further trade and Trade Competitiveness investment flows across the Atlantic. Procurement Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what recent estimate he Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for has made of the contribution to the economy of (a) Business, Innovation and Skills what proportion of competition and (b) the competition authorities. contracts issued by his Department were awarded to [113834] small and medium-sized enterprises in 2011-12; and what proportion this represented of the monetary value of contracts awarded by his Department in Norman Lamb [holding answer 25 June 2012]: 2011-12. [111921] Competitive markets ensure that scarce economic resources are put to their most efficient use. Markets that work Mr Prisk: For core-BIS and those of its Agencies and well provide strong incentives for firms to innovate, non departmental public bodies (NDPBs) for which improve production methods and lower prices. This in records are centrally held contracts to a value of 34% turn results in consumer benefits through lower prices, (£424,704,295) of a total procurement spend of greater choice, higher quality and improved service £1,263,329,762 were awarded to small and medium offering. enterprises in financial year 2011-12. (a) The impact of well-functioning, competitive markets Further information is not held centrally and could on the economy occurs through several channels. Firstly, be provided only at disproportionate cost. effective competition acts as a disciplining mechanism Research: Disclosure of Information for firms, incentivising firms to become more efficient. Secondly, competition results in the most innovative Chris Ruane: To ask the Secretary of State for and productive firms thriving and gaining market share Business, Innovation and Skills what his policy is on at the expense those that are not so. Competition also allowing public access to publicly-funded academic has effects on the broader macro-economic indicators, research; and what plans he has for such access. [111705] resulting in lower inflation and higher foreign direct investment. Competitive markets also result in confident Mr Willetts: As stated in the Innovation and Research and well-informed consumers, who make decisions which Strategy for Growth published in December 2011, the best satisfy their requirements. 243W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 244W

Notwithstanding these important effects, estimating Mr Gauke: This Government are determined to tackle the impact of competition on the economy is a difficult tax avoidance and evasion, to ensure that everyone pays task given the intangible nature of the impacts. their fair share of tax. Our reinvestment of over £900 million (b) The OFT assesses the impact of its work on the into HMRC demonstrates this and will bring in additional economy on an annual basis, as part of its performance revenue of £7 billion a year by 2014-15. target of delivering benefits to consumers at least five We have announced immediate action to close down times the cost of its operations to the taxpayer. The seven avoidance schemes in the past year and recently latest available report1 found that the OFT delivered published our consultation on introducing a General annual average consumer benefits of £326 million, resulting Anti-Abuse Rule in 2013. in a benefit to cost ratio of around 7:1, above the target agreed with the Treasury. The OFT estimated that the Economic Growth competition regime in the UK benefited consumers by almost £689 million in 2010-11. 19. Chris Williamson: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent estimate he has made of the 1 For the financial year ending March 2011. OFT (2011), ’Positive Impact 10/11: Consumer Benefits from the OFT’s work’. level of economic growth in 2012. [113597] UK Membership of EU Miss Chloe Smith: The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) is responsible for producing independent economic Philip Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for and fiscal forecasts. In their March Economic and fiscal Business, Innovation and Skills what estimate he has outlook, the OBR forecast economic growth of 0.8% made of the number of jobs created in the UK as a in 2012. direct result of the EU membership in each of the last five years. [113617] 22. Damian Hinds: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent steps he has taken to encourage Norman Lamb: There is no available estimate of the economic growth. [113600] impact on the number of jobs created in the UK as a direct result of EU membership. These estimates Miss Chloe Smith: The Government’s top priority is would be difficult and, to some extent speculative, to achieve strong, sustainable and balanced growth that as they would require an assessment of the impact is more evenly shared across the country and between of EU membership on, among other things, trade in industries, through: goods and services, foreign investments of European sustained deficit reduction; Union and non-European Union origins, financial and monetary activism; and banking relations, inward and outward flows of supply side reforms. migrants, etc. Eurozone Financial Crisis Trade and investment with Europe is, nonetheless, very important to UK employment. BIS estimated that 20. David Rutley: To ask the Chancellor of the in 2006 3.5 million jobs were linked directly and indirectly Exchequer what steps the Government are taking to to the UK’s trade with the EU, representing around limit the effect on the UK of the financial crisis in the 12% of UK’s work force. This is the most recent estimate eurozone. [113598] available and no similar comparisons have been made over time. Mr Hoban: This Government have taken decisive action to cut the deficit and stimulate growth, helping insulate the UK from the worst of the euro crisis. It’s TREASURY because of that action that we have secured near record low bond yields to the benefit of businesses and families Community Banks across the UK. We have also ensured that all UK banks have built their capital buffers in recent years, with the 17. Guy Opperman: To ask the Chancellor of the largest UK banks reporting a core tier 1 ratio of 10% or Exchequer what steps he is taking to make it easier to above. Furthermore we have also recently announced set up local community banks. [113595] two new schemes worth tens of billions of pounds to boost lending during this period of uncertainty. Mr Hoban: The Government believes that it is important for consumers to be able to access an appropriate range Air Passenger Duty of financial products and services. Therefore it is essential that the regulatory regime Nadine Dorries: To ask the Chancellor of the facilitates new entrants to the banking market Exchequer with reference to section 29 of the Coalition wherever possible. The Financial Services Authority Agreement, when he plans to bring forward plans to and the Bank of England are conducting reviews of the switch the Air Passenger Duty to a per plane basis prudential and conduct requirements for new entrants rather than per passenger; and if he will make a to the banking sector to ensure that the requirements statement. [113695] are proportionate and do not pose excessive barriers to entry or expansion. Miss Chloe Smith: As set out at Budget 2011, the Government will not introduce a per-plane duty at the Tax Avoidance/Evasion present time, given concerns over the legality and feasibility of this approach. The Government is continuing to 18. Simon Hughes: To ask the Chancellor of the work with our international partners to build support Exchequer what steps he is taking to reduce tax for this approach. In the meantime, Budget 2012 set out avoidance and tax evasion. [113596] air passenger duty rates for 2012-13 and 2013-14. 245W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 246W

Child Trust Fund Based on the “direct effects of illustrative tax changes” table published on HM Revenue and Customs’ website, Mr Woodward: To ask the Chancellor of the the effect on fuel duty receipts of a 3.02 ppl change in Exchequer when he intends to consider the future of fuel duty is approximately £1.35 billion per year. existing Child Trust Fund accounts; and whether such The estimate of future revenues including the effect accounts will be converted into Junior Individual of the planned rise in fuel duty rise of 3.02 ppl has been Savings Accounts. [113412] published as part of the Office of Budget Responsibility’s “Economic and Fiscal Outlook” in March 2012, in Mr Hoban: With reference to the answer to the hon. table 4.7: Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson) on 18 June Fuel duty receipts 2012, the Government has no immediate plans to change £ billion the existing regulatory structure for tax advantaged savings accounts for children. We therefore have no 2012-13 27.3 plans at present to convert Child Trust Funds into 2013-14 28.1 Junior ISAs. 2014-15 28.9 There are currently around 5.7 million Child Trust 2015-16 30.1 Fund accounts, with a total value of approximately 2016-17 31.3 £4.4 billion. The market continues to grow steadily and, so long as CTF account holders continue to exercise Government Procurement Card their right to switch accounts where appropriate, there will continue to be an impetus for providers to compete. Rachel Reeves: To ask the Chancellor of the We do not believe that the majority of the 5.7 million Exchequer how many procurement card holders in his children with a Child Trust Fund would benefit from a Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) employed change in rules at the present time. on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a non- As with all features of the tax system, the Government permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 and will keep under review whether or not action is necessary (iii) 2011-12. [113347] in the future. Miss Chloe Smith: Only permanent members of staff European Stability Mechanism may be issued with Government procurement cards (GPCs). Between 1 April 2009 and 31 March 2012, Mr Cash: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on 16 part-time permanent members of staff were issued what European treaty basis the European Council with GPCs. No cardholders have been paid ‘off payroll’. would be authorised to grant a banking licence to the European Stability Mechanism. [113661] Individual Savings Accounts: Children

Mr Hoban [holding answer 25 June 2012]: The European Mr Woodward: To ask the Chancellor of the Council does not grant banking licenses. This is the role Exchequer what information his Department holds on of the relevant national competent authorities. In the the number of Junior Individual Savings accounts United Kingdom, the national competent authority is opened in each parliamentary constituency since the FSA. October 2010. [113413] Excise Duties: Fuels Mr Hoban: Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will publish Junior ISA statistics in July 2012. These will set Mr Cox: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer (1) out total subscriptions to Junior ISAs in respect of the what assessment his Department has made of the first five months of the scheme, falling in the 2011-12 potential effect on other forms of HM Revenue and tax year. Account level information sufficient to determine Customs revenue of the planned three pence fuel duty the regional take-up of Junior ISAs is not expected to rise; [112701] be available before 2013. (2) whether his Department has made an estimate of future revenue from fuel duty if the planned fuel duty Tax Avoidance rise of three pence is not implemented; [112702] (3) what estimate his Department has made of Paul Flynn: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer revenue from fuel duty following the planned fuel duty what investigations have been undertaken by (a) his rise of three pence. [112705] Department and (b) HM Revenue and Customs into the accounting activities to support tax avoidance Miss Chloe Smith: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, being carried out by (i) Peak Performance Accountants my right hon. Friend the Member for Tatton (Mr Osborne), and (ii) Blue Cube financial planning consultants; and routinely considers the fiscal implications of tax policy what his policy is on investigating allegations of tax options as part of the annual Budget process. Fuel price avoidance schemes exposed by media investigations. effects on inflation, the economy and employment, and [113252] therefore effects on other forms of HM Revenue and Customs revenues, are assessed by the Office of Budget Mr Gauke: HMRC investigates and challenges all Responsibility as part of its economic and fiscal forecasts. forms of tax avoidance, irrespective of how they were The OBR reported in September 2010 that changing notified to HMRC. Allegations of tax avoidance are fuel duty by 1 pence per litre has a total effect on the taken seriously, and any information provided is considered public finances of around £500 million. in determining the appropriate response. 247W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 248W

Taxation: Multinational Companies Number

Mr Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer 2003 22 what steps he (a) is taking and (b) plans to take in the 2002 17 next 12 months to ensure that the proposed relaxation 1 Up to 21 June 2012 of Controlled Foreign Companies rules does not encourage companies to increase their use of overseas The European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) publishes tax havens; if he will assess the likely effect of these an annual safety review. This includes statistics on proposed changes on developing countries; if he will European and worldwide civil aviation safety which are discuss this matter with the International Monetary grouped according to type of operation, for instance Fund; and if he will make a statement. [113239] commercial air transport, and aircraft category, such as aeroplanes, helicopters and gliders. The annual safety Mr Gauke: The Government is introducing a modernised review can be found at Controlled Foreign Company regime that strikes the http://easa.europa.eu/communications/docs/annual-safety- right balance between making the corporate tax system review/2010/EASA-Annual-Safety-Review-2010.pdf more competitive and providing adequate protection of the UK tax base. The regime will apply to companies Bus Services: Finance which artificially divert UK profits to low tax jurisdictions to avoid UK tax. Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport which bus companies her Department The Government is not undertaking an assessment of subsidises in the West Midlands; and what funding it the effect on developing countries of the proposed provided to each such company in each of the last two changes to the CFC rules as these rules are designed to years. [113703] protect the UK tax base. Such an assessment would need to focus primarily on Norman Baker: I am assuming the question refers to the nature of tax regimes in developing countries and Bus Service Operators Grant. the interactions of multinational companies with those The Department does not hold this information in tax systems, making it an assessment not of our tax the form requested. However, the following links provide rules, but of the tax rules of those other countries. The information on payments made to individual operators Government does not think that such an assessment (in alphabetical order) up to (i) 31 March 2010 and (ii) would be feasible. 31 March 2011. The Government works with the International Monetary http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20110504135837/ Fund and other international organisations such as the http:/www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/regional/buses/busgrants/bsog/ World Bank and OECD to provide technical assistance 661224 and capacity building support to developing countries http://assets.dft.gov.uk/publications/bsog-grants-paid-to- across a range of issues including tax avoidance and 20120331/bsog-grants-paid-2011.pdf compliance. The changes to the Controlled Foreign Companies Cars: Exhaust Emissions (CFC) rules will be evaluated and assessed alongside other measures included in the Government’s package Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for of corporate tax reforms. Transport how many cars with tailpipe carbon emissions below 110g/km were sold in (a) 2010 and (b) 2011; and what estimate she has made of the likely number of such cars to be sold in each of the next three TRANSPORT years. [113704] Aviation: Accidents Norman Baker: During 2010, 148,617 new cars with Naomi Long: To ask the Secretary of State for tailpipe CO2 emissions under 110 g/km were registered Transport how many fatal air accidents there were in for the first time in Great Britain. The corresponding the UK in the last 10 years; and what comparative number for 2011 was 247,425. Additional cars with assessment she has made of the number of such tailpipe emissions under 110 g/km would have been accidents in the UK and in other EU member states. registered for the first time during 2010 and 2011 but these vehicles would have been used imports or [113669] re-registrations. Mrs Villiers: The number of fatal air accidents in the Cars with tailpipe emissions under 110 g/km accounted UK over the last 10 years are: for 7.5 per cent of all the new cars registered for the first time in 2010. This rose to 13 per cent in 2011. Number The Department for Transport has not made any 2012 16 specific forecasts of the number of such vehicles that are likely to be registered for the first time in future 2011 13 years, although we are confident the number will grow. 2010 8 2009 22 Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency 2008 12 2007 24 Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for 2006 18 Transport what changes in staffing levels have been 2005 22 made by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in 2004 22 the last 12 months. [113795] 249W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 250W

Mike Penning: The following table shows the changes fully complies with this policy. Consequently, neither in staffing levels by month during the last financial paid off-payroll nor non-permanent employees are able year: to be GPC cardholders. The details of GPC cardholders who are employed Month Full-time equivalents on a part-time basis are not available as these details are 2011 not captured. April 5,558.8 The Department publishes Government Procurement May 5,540.1 Card spend over £500 at June 5,534.2 http://data.gov.uk/dataset/dft-gpc-spend July 5,524.1 in accordance with Cabinet Office (CO) guidelines. August 5,503.3 Data is currently available from April 2011, and is September 5,529.5 updated monthly. October 5,544.1 November 5,537.9 December 5,529.4 Motor Vehicles: Registration

2012 Mr Ainsworth: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport whether her Department has considered January 5,499.7 introducing a central database to record the details of February 5,483.5 foreign registered vehicles that enter and operate in the March 5,469.3 UK. [113302]

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning [holding answer 25 June 2012]: No Transport where the Driver and Vehicle Licensing formal consideration has been given to introducing a Agency call centres are located. [113796] central database to record the details of foreign registered vehicles that enter and operate in the UK. This would Mike Penning: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing require consultation across Government. I do, of course, Agency has one call centre which is located in Swansea. have informal discussions with my officials touching on all aspects of policy, including this. Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how much training Driver and Vehicle Motor Vehicles: Testing Licensing Agency call centre agents receive before answering calls; and when that training was last Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State updated. [113798] for Transport what assessment she has made of the effects on hauliers’ carbon footprint of closures of Mike Penning: The Driver and Vehicle Licensing authorised testing centres. [113619] Agency call centre agents undertake an initial eight-week training programme following their induction. This consists Mike Penning: For the purpose of the response we of two weeks theory, followed by three weeks of fully have taken ″authorised testing centres″ to mean authorised monitored telephone work in the live environment. This testing facilities (ATFs) which are privately owned testing is followed by an additional three weeks training in a stations. dedicated coaching environment. This is in a ratio of three trainees to one coach, where they are formally There are no plans to close any Authorised Testing assessed on a weekly basis to ensure they attain the set Facilities (ATF) and to date no ATFs have closed. standard before joining an operational team. A major review of the training programme was Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State conducted in 2011 and it is continually updated to for Transport how many tests were cancelled at incorporate legislative and operational changes. authorised testing centres in each of the last five years. [113620] Government Procurement Card Mike Penning: For the purpose of the response we have taken “authorised testing centres”to mean authorised Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for testing facilities (ATFs) which are privately owned testing Transport (1) how many procurement card holders in stations. her Department were (a) paid off-payroll, (b) VOSA’s test booking system records the test results employed on a part-time basis and (c) employed as a at ATFs but is unable to distinguish the number of non-permanent employee in (i) 2009-10, (ii) 2010-11 cancelled tests, as ATFs book testing slots with VOSA, and (iii) 2011-12; [113338] which may contain multiple tests, rather than individual (2) on which dates her Department has published tests. Management of test bookings is entirely within Government procurement card spending over £500 the control of the individual ATF. since May 2010. [113356] Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State Norman Baker: The PAN Government Policy for for Transport how many authorised testing centres GPC permits only permanent and fixed term members closed in each of the last five years; and where they of staff to be issued with cards, and the Department were located. [113624] 251W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 252W

Mike Penning: For the purpose of the response we Mike Penning: For the purpose of the response we have taken “authorised testing centres”to mean authorised have taken “authorised testing centres”to mean authorised testing facilities (ATFs) which are privately owned testing testing facilities (ATFs) which are privately owned testing stations. stations. No ATFs have closed since the introduction of these VOSA does not record test waiting times at ATFs as facilities in February 2010. management of test bookings is entirely within the control of the individual ATF. Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport how many complaints were received Pay about the level and quality of service at authorised testing centres in each of the last five years. [113626] Rachel Reeves: To ask the Secretary of State for Mike Penning: For the purpose of the response we Transport what the (a) highest, (b) median, (c) have taken “authorised testing centres”to mean authorised median full-time equivalent and (d) lowest full-time testing facilities (ATFs) which are privately owned testing equivalent salary was paid by (i) her Department and stations. (ii) its public bodies in (A) 2010-11, (B) 2011-12 and VOSA has received one complaint about the level of (C) 2012-13. [112478] service at an ATF, this was in 2012. Norman Baker: The table below shows the highest, Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State median, median full-time equivalent and the lowest for Transport what the average waiting time was for full-time equivalent salary paid by the Department for tests for each category of vehicle at each authorised Transport and its public bodies in each of the last 4 testing centre in each of the last five years. [113627] financial years.

£ Highest Median Median FTE Lowest FTE

2009-10 Department for Transport 179,655 36,960 36,960 12,041 Public Bodies 350,000 66,560 66,560 15,053

2010-11 Department for Transport 179,655 37,840 37,840 12,041 Public Bodies 350,000 62,264 62,264 15,204

2011-12 Department for Transport 170,000 38,720 38,720 12,291 Public Bodies 250,000 51,282 53,098 13,946

2012-13 Department for Transport 165,000 38,720 38,720 12,541 Public Bodies 250,000 54,166 54,166 13,946

Railways It is important for Network Rail to engage with local communities affected by the company’s vegetation management policy and this is an issue I have raised Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for with the company. Transport what information her Department holds on Information in relation to tree felling complaints the implementation of National Rail’s tree clearance investigated by the BTP is not held by the Department programme in relation to (a) environmental for Transport but by the British Transport Police, who assessments and (b) community consultations; what can be contacted at: estimate she has made of the number of trees that have British Transport Police been felled in the last five years; how many such trees 25 Camden Road were felled during bird breeding seasons; on how many London occasions British Transport Police have investigated NW1 9LN complaints relating to tree felling; what estimate she e-mail: [email protected] has made of the total area of trees to be felled in the next five years; what discussions she has had with the Railways: Electrification Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs on the programme; and if she will make a Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what recent discussions she has had on statement. [113712] electrifying the railway between the East Coast Main Line at Northallerton and Middlesbrough station. Mrs Villiers: The Department for Transport does not [113629] hold the information requested. Network Rail is a private Mrs Villiers: We have asked Network Rail to carry sector company limited by guarantee, and tree and out an assessment of the cost and business case for vegetation management on the rail network is an operational electrifying the line between Northallerton and matter for the company. Middlesbrough and the results are expected soon. 253W Written Answers26 JUNE 2012 Written Answers 254W

Railways: Safety Norman Baker: The responsibility for local transport links in rural areas lies with the local transport authorities, Maria Eagle: To ask the Secretary of State for who are able to use the Integrated Transport capital Transport what contribution her Department is funding provided by Government to improve transport making to the Rail Safety and Standards Board’s links in their rural areas. re-writing of railway safety rules; what the timetable is In March I published ‘Green Light for Buses’ which for the re-write; how and when the revised rules will includes the commitment to support local transport come into effect; and if she will make a statement. authorities in their ability to procure non-commercial [113855] services, including more flexible, innovative options such as community buses. Mrs Villiers: The RSSB (formerly the Rail Standards In December 2011 I announced a second £10m tranche and Safety Board) is responsible for facilitating the of the Supporting Community Transport Fund for work of the Industry Standards Committees that determine local authorities in rural areas to help kick-start schemes the Railway Group Standards, including the Rule Book. where commercial services are not profitable and local These committees are subject to processes that determine transport authorities have chosen not to fund services the industry consultations required and the timescale under the powers available to them. for introduction of any revision. Some of the Local Authority Major Transport Schemes The role of the Department for Transport (DFT) is being funded by the Government will improve links to, limited in this context. DFT officials are observers at through and between rural areas. In addition, the Local the RSSB Standards Committees that manage Railway Sustainable Transport Fund (LSTF) attracted successful Group Standards. The Department is also consulted on bids supporting schemes that improve transport links in significant changes as part of the industry wide process. rural areas. A schedule of the RSSB’s review of the Rule Book is We also support community rail schemes and many available on their website at of the 32 lines or services designated under the Community http://www.rssb.co.uk/RGS/Pages/rulebookandnational.aspx Rail Development Strategy serve rural areas. The RSSB should be contacted directly for further The Coalition Government plans to publish a Rural information on their standards processes. Statement shortly. School Crossing Patrols Vehicle and Operator Services Agency

Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr George Howarth: To ask the Secretary of State Transport whether her Department issues guidance on for Transport how much of the Vehicle and Operator the criteria for determining when school crossing Services Agency’s budget was allocated to (a) testing patrols could be implemented by local highway and (b) enforcement in each of the last five years. authorities; and when the minimum national [113625] requirements for a school crossing patrol staffed by volunteers are to be introduced. [113930] Mike Penning: The total costs allocated to VOSA Testing and Enforcement for the past five years has Norman Baker: The Department for Transport does been: not issue guidance on criteria for determining when Testing school crossing patrols could be implemented by local £ million authorities. The Road Traffic Regulation of 1984 delegates power 2007-08 69.9 to local authorities to make arrangements for patrolling 2008-09 69.8 places where children cross roads on their way to or 2009-10 59.1 from school, but does not impose a duty on them to do 2010-11 52.1 so. 2011-12 51.9 The Department has no plans to introduce a minimum Enforcement national requirement for a school crossing patrol staffed £ million by volunteers. 2007-08 32.3 Transport: Rural Areas 2008-09 44.8 2009-10 49.4 Simon Kirby: To ask the Secretary of State for 2010-11 42.3 Transport what steps her Department plans to take to 2011-12 39.0 improve transport links in rural areas. [113714]

5MC Ministerial Corrections26 JUNE 2012 Ministerial Corrections 6MC

£600 million represents the cost of sustaining the capability Ministerial Corrections out to 2023 and producing the core for the reactor for the seventh Astute-class boat and the first successor-class Tuesday 26 June 2012 boat. The following is the answer given by the Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond), to the supplementary DEFENCE questions asked by the hon. Member for Islington North Nuclear-powered Submarines (Jeremy Corbyn) during the Urgent Question concerning nuclear-powered submarines on 18 June 2012. The following is the answer given by the Secretary of State for Defence, the right hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr Hammond), to the supplementary Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): A week ago, questions asked by the hon. Member for Linlithgow and the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. East Falkirk (Michael Connarty) during the Urgent Member for Mid Worcestershire (Peter Luff), told the Question concerning nuclear-powered submarines on House that the total cost of long-lead items was £3 billion, 18 June 2012. but that has risen by a third in the Secretary of State’s statement today. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that all he is doing is building up huge expenditure in Michael Connarty (Linlithgow and East Falkirk) (Lab): advance of a main gate decision in 2016, which will lead I am trying to find out how much of this expenditure is this country towards wasting £100 billion on a weapon in the £3 billion mentioned last year by the Under-Secretary of mass destruction of dubious legality and total of State for Defence, the hon. Member for Mid immorality? Do we not need to think again? Worcestershire (Peter Luff), the Minister with responsibility for procurement, and how much is new expenditure? How much will be spent on Trident development and Mr Hammond: The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised how much on the Astute submarine fleet? to hear that I do not agree with any of that; I do not think he listened to the answer to the previous question Mr Hammond: The answer is about a quarter. Of the but one. This is not an increase in the £3 billion previously £1.1 billion, £500 million is investment in the capital announced; the part of it that relates to the successor infrastructure at the Rolls-Royce plant. The remaining programme was included within that £3 billion. £600 million represents the purchase of long-lead items [Official Report, 18 June 2012, Vol. 546, c. 615-16.] for the production of the core for the reactor for the Letter of correction from Philip Hammond: seventh Astute-class boat and the first successor-class boat. An error has been identified in the answer given to the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) [Official Report, 18 June 2012, Vol. 546, c. 615.] on 18 June 2012. Letter of correction from Philip Hammond: The correct answer should have been: An error has been identified in the answer given to the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk Mr Hammond: The hon. Gentleman will not be surprised (Michael Connarty) on 18 June 2012. to hear that I do not agree with any of that; I do not The correct answer should have been: think he listened to the answer to the previous question but one. This is not an increase in the £3 billion previously Mr Hammond: The answer is about a quarter. Of the announced; the part of it that relates to successor £1.1 billion, £500 million is investment in the capital programme expenditure through to 2016 was included infrastructure at the Rolls-Royce plant. The remaining within that £3 billion.

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 140 TREASURY—continued Child Poverty ...... 151 Fuel Duty ...... 152 Cost of Living...... 145 HMRC Helplines ...... 153 Economic Growth...... 143 Infrastructure Investment...... 149 Economic Growth...... 148 Quantitative Easing...... 141 Economic Performance...... 147 Regional Pay ...... 145 EU Regulations...... 147 Small Businesses ...... 150 Excessive Card Surcharges ...... 140 Topical Questions ...... 154 Fiscal Policies (Output)...... 154 VAT (Savoury Products)...... 153 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Col. No. Col. No. DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER ...... 5WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 6WS McKay Commission ...... 5WS National Fraud Authority (Annual Report and Accounts) ...... 6WS TRANSPORT ...... 6WS HEALTH...... 5WS Aviation Security...... 6WS Genetics and Insurance...... 5WS Cycle Safety ...... 8WS PETITION

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Col. No. Col. No. ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS...... 1P Dangerous dogs ...... 1P WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 163W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 162W Energy...... 163W Green Belt...... 162W Housing: Construction...... 162W Planning Permission ...... 163W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 235W Adult Education: Bexley ...... 235W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 220W Business: Complaints ...... 236W Government Procurement Card ...... 220W Cancer: Research ...... 237W Mobile Phones ...... 220W Competition and Markets Authority...... 237W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 221W Conditions of Employment...... 238W Rural Areas: Broadband ...... 221W Consultants...... 238W Environment Protection...... 238W New Businesses: Government Assistance ...... 239W DEFENCE...... 186W Office of Fair Trading: Competition Commission.. 240W 16 Air Assault Brigade...... 186W Overseas Trade...... 241W Afghanistan ...... 187W Procurement...... 241W Aircraft Carriers ...... 187W Research: Disclosure of Information ...... 241W Armed Forces: Complaints ...... 188W Trade Competitiveness ...... 242W Armed Forces: Discrimination...... 188W UK Membership of EU...... 243W Armed Forces: Harassment...... 189W Armed Forces: Manpower ...... 189W Armed Forces: Pay...... 192W CABINET OFFICE...... 158W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 192W Energy...... 158W Armed Forces: Post-traumatic Stress Disorder...... 193W Public Services ...... 158W Armed Forces: Redundancy...... 194W Research ...... 159W Armed Forces: Sexual Offences...... 195W Unemployment: Young People...... 159W Defence: Cryptography ...... 195W Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE—continued HEALTH—continued Diamond Jubilee 2012...... 195W Out of Area Treatment: North East...... 232W Nuclear Submarines...... 196W Primary Care Trusts...... 233W Queen’s Dragoon Guards ...... 196W Royal College of General Practitioners...... 234W Territorial Army ...... 196W Tranquillisers: Misuse ...... 234W

EDUCATION...... 184W HOME DEPARTMENT...... 171W Adoption: Ethnic Groups ...... 184W Abid Hussain ...... 171W Young People: Carers...... 184W Animal Experiments ...... 171W Young People: North East ...... 185W Animal Experiments: EU Law ...... 172W Crime: British Overseas Territories ...... 175W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 166W Crime Prevention ...... 172W Advisory Bodies...... 166W Crime Prevention: EU Action...... 174W Carbon Sequestration: Yorkshire and the Detainees: Compensation ...... 175W Humber ...... 166W Energy...... 175W Coryton Refinery ...... 167W Essex Police Authority ...... 176W Energy: Finance ...... 168W Europol...... 177W Energy: Prices ...... 168W Government Procurement Card ...... 178W Fuel Poverty...... 169W Immigration...... 178W Natural Gas: Imports...... 169W Immigration Controls ...... 178W Renewable Energy: Feed-in Tariffs...... 170W Immigration: Merseyside ...... 179W Information Officers ...... 179W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL Legal Costs ...... 179W AFFAIRS...... 214W Licensing Laws: Birmingham...... 180W Agricultural Wages Board...... 214W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 181W Agriculture: Food ...... 215W Olympic Games 2012 ...... 181W Agriculture: Industrial Health and Safety ...... 215W Organised Crime: British Overseas Territories ...... 182W Animal Welfare: Circuses...... 215W Police ...... 182W Common Agricultural Policy ...... 215W Police: Information and Communications Dairy Farming ...... 216W Technology ...... 183W Hazardous Substances ...... 216W Police: Overtime...... 183W Seasonal Agricultural Workers’ Scheme...... 216W Police: Pay...... 183W Sheep: Tagging...... 217W Prisoners: Repatriation ...... 183W Procurement...... 184W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 201W UK Border Force...... 184W Abid Hussain ...... 201W Young Offenders: Reoffenders ...... 184W Air Displays: Farnborough ...... 202W Armed Conflict: Children ...... 202W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 199W Azerbaijan ...... 202W Consultants...... 199W Belarus...... 203W Government Procurement Card ...... 199W Complaints ...... 203W Nigeria...... 200W Egypt ...... 204W Sahel ...... 200W Energy...... 205W Syria...... 201W EU Enlargement ...... 206W Israel...... 206W JUSTICE...... 208W Libya...... 206W Contempt of Court...... 208W Minister without Portfolio ...... 207W Curfews...... 209W Politics and Government: Indonesia ...... 207W Cycling: Roads...... 209W Sudan: South Sudan ...... 207W Dangerous Dogs ...... 210W Thailand ...... 207W Demonstrations: Prosecutions ...... 210W Visits Abroad ...... 208W Driving Offences: Insurance...... 211W World Refugee Day...... 208W Energy...... 211W Probation ...... 212W HEALTH...... 221W Social Security Benefits: Appeals ...... 213W Antidepressants ...... 221W Young Offenders ...... 213W Brain and Central Nervous System Tumours...... 222W Cancer ...... 223W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 161W Cancer: Children...... 224W Energy...... 161W Community Nurses...... 225W Government Procurement Card ...... 161W Congenital Abnormalities...... 225W Northern Ireland Grand Committee...... 161W Diabetes ...... 226W Drugs: Misuse...... 226W PRIME MINISTER ...... 197W Energy...... 227W Abid Hussain ...... 197W Government Procurement Card ...... 227W Conservative Friends of Pakistan...... 197W Health...... 228W Leveson Inquiry ...... 198W Health Services: Channel Islands ...... 229W Stephen Gilbert...... 198W Health Visitors: Recruitment ...... 230W Visits Abroad ...... 198W Homeopathy ...... 230W Malnutrition ...... 230W SCOTLAND...... 160W Mental Illness ...... 232W Energy...... 160W NHS Walk-in Centres: Closures...... 232W Government Procurement Card ...... 160W Col. No. Col. No. TRANSPORT ...... 247W TREASURY—continued Aviation: Accidents...... 247W European Stability Mechanism ...... 245W Bus Services: Finance...... 248W Eurozone Financial Crisis...... 244W Cars: Exhaust Emissions...... 248W Excise Duties: Fuels ...... 245W Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency...... 248W Government Procurement Card ...... 246W Government Procurement Card ...... 249W Individual Savings Accounts: Children ...... 246W Motor Vehicles: Registration...... 250W Tax Avoidance ...... 246W Motor Vehicles: Testing ...... 250W Tax Avoidance/Evasion...... 243W Pay...... 252W Taxation: Multinational Companies ...... 247W Railways...... 251W Railways: Electrification ...... 252W WALES...... 157W Railways: Safety...... 253W Energy...... 157W School Crossing Patrols ...... 253W Government Procurement Card ...... 157W Transport: Rural Areas ...... 253W Tanks ...... 158W Vehicle and Operator Services Agency ...... 254W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 217W Disability: Employment ...... 217W TREASURY ...... 243W Employment and Support Allowance ...... 217W Air Passenger Duty ...... 244W Incapacity Benefit ...... 218W Child Trust Fund ...... 245W Motability...... 218W Community Banks ...... 243W Universal Credit...... 219W Economic Growth...... 244W Work Capability Assessment...... 219W MINISTERIAL CORRECTIONS

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Col. No. DEFENCE...... 5MC Nuclear-powered Submarines ...... 5MC Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied, nor can corrections be made in the Weekly Edition. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 26 June 2012

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 140] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Exchequer

Rio+20 Summit [Col. 161] Statement—(Deputy Prime Minister)

Opposition Day [3rd allotted day] Secondary Education (GCSEs) [Col. 175] Motion—(Stephen Twigg)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Michael Gove)—on a Division, agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to Defence Reform [Col. 231] Motion—(Mr Kevan Jones)—on a Division, negatived

Petition [Col. 276]

Decent Homes Programme (Nottingham) [Col. 278] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Women (Global Economy) [Col. 1WH] BME Communities (Educational Attainment) [Col. 24WH] Rail-Air Connectivity (South-East) [Col. 48WH] Mesothelioma (Legal Aid Reform) [Col. 56WH] Neglected Tropical Diseases [Col. 65WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 5WS]

Petitions [Col. 1P] Observations

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 157W] [see index inside back page]

Ministerial Corrections [Col. 5MC]