Queensland
Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]
Legislative Assembly
TUESDAY, 29 OCTOBER 1957
Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy
664 Special Adjournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.
TUESDAY, 29 OCTOBER, 1957.
!Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. A. R. Fletcher, Cunningham) took the !Chair at 11 a.m.
QUESTIONS.
BRISBANE DOMAIN FOR PARK PURPOSES. Mr. WOOD (North Toowoomba-Leader of the Opposition) asked the Premier- '' In view of the statement attributed to the Lord Mayor of Brisbane (Alderman Groom) in 'The Courier-Mail' of 23 October that the Brisbane Domain would be restored to the City Council for public use as a park- " (1) Is this the Government's inten· tion~ "(2) If so, (a) is he able to give an approximate date for the handing over of the Domain for public use, and (b) will the Domain be restored as a forum of the people where speakers will be per mitted to address the public on Sunday afternoons and such other times as was customary before the Domain was for bidden to the people~"
Ho,n. K. J. lUORRIS (Mount Coot-tha Minister for Labour and Industry), for Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough), replied~ "(1) Yes." "(2) (a) The Domain is occupied by buildings which I understand were erected during the War and are now used by the Central Technical College. The area will be handed over to the Brisbane City Council for public use as soon as suitable alternative accommodation can be provided. (b) This matter will come solely within the jurisdiction of the Brisbane City Council, but I have no doubt that if the Leader of the Opposition submits an application for permission to use a 'soap box' in the Domain on Sunday afternoons, it will be given a high priority.''
FACTORIES FOR NORTH QUEENSLAND. lUr. COBURN (Burdekin), for llfr. AIKENS (Mundingburra), asked the Minister for Labour and Industry- "With regard to the Press statements that, as a result of his endeavours and the policy of the Government, a German motor firm is to establish a factory in Brisbane and many others are also interested in establishing factories in Queensland; will he please inform the House of the names of any firms and the nature of their indus tries that either will establish factories in North Queensland or are even interested in doing so, as a result of the aforesaid Ministerial endeavours and policy~'' Questions. [29 OCTOBER.] Questions. 665
Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mount Coot-tha) Government of which the Honourable Mem replied- ber was then both a member and a The Honourable Member will, I am sure, supporter. The inference in the question readily recognise that it would be unethical that my Government can extend this Act for me to publicise the names of organisa so that mortgagors detrimentally affected tions with whom negotiations are stil~ by the present drought can obtain relief proceeding. I am, however, very happy thereunder is not true. For the purpose to advise that we are at this moment of making that inference the Honourable negotiating with many organisations in Member has quoted verbatim part of relation to the question of extending their section 2 of the 1943 amendment Act, but activities into Queensland and/or North f?r _the very obvious purpose of supporting ·Queensland. In addition to this we are Ins mference has substituted his own words taking active steps to bring to the notice for some part of section 2. I deprecate of people and business interests in over this rather crude attempt to suggest that seas countries information with respect to the Government is failing implement our basic resources, so that with their to financial assistance we may cause this State available means of alleviating difficulties to be developed, to the advantage of our occasioned by the drought.'' Queensland people. It is the policy of the Government to encourage decentralisation ORDERS FOR SHIP-BUILDING, ViTALKERS LTD., of industry, that is, for industry to MARYBOROUGH. establish away from Brisbane but the final decision as to where any industry will be Mr. DA VIES (Maryborough) asked the established rests with the industrialists Premier- concerned. Some country centres are '' In view of the statement by Senator sufficiently progressive as to make an effort Paltridge, Minister for Shipping and to attract industries to their centres by Transport, in the Senate on May 31, 1956, the formation of local organisations which when speaking on the Australian Coastal 'prepare very attractive and informative Shipping Commission Bill as reported on brochureR outlining the resources and page 1132, Commonwealth Hansard No. 9, potentialities of the district. These brochures have been sent by the Depart that 'The Minister will thus be able to ment to the Agent General in London for ensure at all times that Australian yards distribution in the right quarters. I have sufficient and regular orders,' will suggest to the Honourable Member that he he confer with the Minister for Shipping would be doing the North a service if he and Transport in the Commonwealth encou~aged and actively participated in Country-Liberal Party Government and establishment of similar organisations of urge him to keep his promise as Walkers Local Authorities and Chambers of Com Ltd. ship-building yards in Maryborough merce in all northern areas.'' have neither sufficient nor regular orders~''
RELIEF TO MORTGAGORS DURING DROUGHT. Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mount Coot-tha Minister for Labour and Industry), for llr. THACKERAY (Keppel), for Mr. Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough), RURROWS (Port Curtis) asked the Premier- ' replied- '' I have seen the statement referred to. "Has the Government yet taken any Since its inception, the present Common pos~tive action to e_xtend the Mortgagors wealth Government has given abundant Rehef Act as provided under Section 3 proof of its earnest desire to maintain a (2A) of the said Act, 1943 Amendment, for balanced economy and foster Australian the purpose of affording a measure of relief to mortgagors detrimentally affected on wide industries, thus assuring an all round account of the spooial economic conditions prosperity. The measure of its success can a~tributable to or arising out of the present be gauged by the overwhelming votes of disastrous drought~ If so, will he advise confidence it h:ts received from the when the necessary Order in Council was Australian people at successive elections. published or is likely to be published~'' In conformity with his Government's wise policy, I have no fear that the Minister Hon. K. J. ])!ORRIS (Mount Coot-tha for shipping and Transport will ignore the Minister for Labour and Industry), for claims of Messrs. Walkers Limited when HOlD. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) orders for ships are being placed in replied- ' Australian yards. However, since we, of this Government, are determined to main ''To the extent to which relief is avail able to any mortgagor under the tain the highest possible level of prosperity Mortgagors and Other Persons Relief Acts, and employment in Queensland, I shall 1931 to 1943, those Acts are still in force take steps to ensure that the claims of the operation thereof having last year bee~ Walkers Limited are brought to the extended to December 31, 1957, by the Minister's notice.'' 666 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
PAPERS. on Thursday last after I had briefly com menced my reply I said that I proposed to The following papers were laid on the deal with many of the matters raised by hon. table, and ordered to be printed:- members and to make comments at some Report of the Department of Agriculture length on what I thought to be important and Stock for the year 1956-1957. matters emerging from the debate. Report of the Commissioner of Transport I propose to deal first of all with the for the year 1956-1957. remarks of the hon. member for Kedron who The following papers were laid on the opened the debate for the Opposition. I table:- am bound to say that he devoted little time Order in Council under the Labour and to an analysis of State finances; he had a Industry Acts, 1946 to 1952. great deal to say concerning monopoly Order in Council under the Traffic Acts, capitalism and much concerning the Japanese 1949 to 1957. trade pact. On each of these subjects I propose to say something. It would be wise Order in Council under the Criminal Code. to make clear in his mind the distinction Order in Council under tl1e Harbours Acts, between monopoly capitalism and large-scale 1955 to 1956. capitalism. The trend of the age in which we live is that the influence of the machine DAYS ALLOTTED TO SUPPLY. not only on factory operation but on organisations of commerce has presented Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough certain economic advantages in large-scale -Premier): I move- operation which make it in the interests ''That during the remainder of this of mankind. As a whole mankind desires a session, unless otherwise ordered, the higher standard of living and a cheaper House may, on the clays allotted for cost of production of many products. That Supply, continue to sit until 10 o'clock in itself is an advantage from large-scale p.m. Each of the periods between 11 operation. If we are going to confuse our o'clock a.m. and 4 o'clock p.m. and thinking on commercial expression to retain between 4 o'clock p.m. and 10 o'clock as the only means of conduct of trade and p.m. shall be accounted an allotted clay commerce in this country the tiny units of under the provisions of Standing Order commercial enterprise then I say beyond a No. 307. Three allotted days shall be shadow of doubt that the standard of con allowed for the discussion of the Estimates duct of trade and commerce would stand of a department. At the termination of still when general standards would be forging the period so allowed the Chairman shall ahead. put every question necessary to decide the Vote under consideration, and shall then ~Ir. Lloyd: The only argument we have proceed to put the question for the balance against that is the arrangement into a cartel of the Estimates for that department; all of those large establishments. such questions to be decided without :llr. HILEY: Part of the hon. member's amendment or debate: Provided that, if case was that he deplored that there was a the discussion of the Estimates of a certain buying-out of existing enterprises and department be concluded before the expiry that some retail businesses were being <'011- of the three days so allowed, the period ducted in a large form. He appearec1 to offer remaining shall be alloca tecl to the dis the suggestion that this was destructive of cussion of the Estimates next brought competition. One of the refreshing con before the Committee. All provisions of sequences of the large-scale organisation in Standing Order No. 307 shall mutatis the retail field has been the strength of the mutandis, continue to apply.'' competition one with another. I do not Motion agreed to. remember in any of the years since the war so many pnges of our newspapers being filled SUPPLY. with advertising competition between the main retailing groups. I gather that our wives COMMITTEE-FINANCIAL STATEMENT would constitute one of the best yardsticks RESUMPTION OF DEBATE. of value in this country and I learn from my own household that "the bargains offered (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, by some of the large groups are becoming Clayfielcl, in the chair.) a very real feature in our life, the lack of Debate resumed from 24 October (see p. which I for one deplored many years ago 664) on Mr. Hiley's motion- after the war finished. The issue of the '' That there be granted to Her Majesty, ''Sunday Mail'' is a classic example because for the service of the year 1957-1958, a in that newspaper \Ye see page after page sum not exceeding £1,132 to defray the of competitive advertisements, and the fact salarY of the Aide-de-Camp to His that business enterprise is conducted in Excellency the Goven10r.'' larger forms does not mean that it has been destructive of competition. If there was no Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo- competition-- Treasurer and Minister for Housing) (11.10 a.m.): When the Committee adjourned ltir. Lloyd: It does not last for ever. s~tpply. [29 OCTOBER.] Supply. 667
Mr. HILEY: The hon. member is only of goods is imported from .Japan, all that parroting what Karl Marx said 110 years happens is that £1,000,000 less will be ago. In dismal fashion Karl Marx told the imported from somewhere else. It is in reality world that inevitably all business would drift a diversion of trade. Australia is endeavou into a state of trade monopoly, that the pro ring to place some of its buying power in gressive small businesses would be pushed countries where it can purchnse to better out and all world trade and commerce would advantage. What is wrong with thaH Does be in the hands of a few people. the hon. member complain about that and The only thing certain over the last 100 assert that our wives should not be able to years is that the passing of every year has buy things a little cheaper~ proved Karl Marx to be wrong. But that does :illr. Lloyd: I do not think our wives not stop the hon. member for Kedron from would want to buy goods manufactured by repeating what Karl Marx said 110 years ago. cheap labour. If the hon. member makes inquiries at the Stock Exchange in Brisbane alone, he will :illr. HILEY: The hon. member may be find that at least 20 large businesses have right when he says that, but he must remember been started in a small way and that during that we want to sell our products to .Japan. their lifetime, the men concerned have been He must be fair in these things. able to build up mighty enterprises. Take He said a good deal about Canada. The the heavy engineering field for a start. The official Canadian figures show that last year, largest engineering establishment in Queens after the treaty had been in existence for land is Evans, Deakin & Co. Ltd., a business three vears the .Japanese had no measurable that two men started with virtually only a propor~tion ~f the Canadian market in wool~en few pounds. Then let me instance the motor piece goods, only 1 per cent. of the Canadian trade. Only the other day a Brisbane man market in rayon piece goods, and only 2 per died and left vast sums of money to chari t cent. in cotton piece goods. The figures show able institutions. He started with nothing, also that during those three years the Cana but in just over one generation he succeeded dian woollen industry had expanded by 29 per in building a mighty business. Almost half cent. the Canadian rayon piece goods industry the namPs that appear on the list of public by s' per cent. and the Canadian cotton piec_e companies at the Stock Exchange are not goods industry by 14 per cent. That expen inherited or traditional names; they are the ence did not stop the spiritual ancestors of the names of men who, from very humble begin hon. gentleman from crying woe and despair in ings, have battled and succeeded in making a exactly the same way in the halls of Ottawa. lasting place for themselves in the trade and This is not uncontrolled competition; it is a commerce of the State. They triumphed over diversion of buying power from countries that competition. There is not very much wrong have previously been enjoying it on higher with our system when many men can suc·ceed cost levels to a country that might enjoy some in doing that. of it at a lower cost level. The advantage of Mr. Lloyd: What is the reason for the that should go to the Australian consumer. introduction of restrictions on monopolies in As long as import licensing continues England and, the United States' and there is no evidence that it will dis appea.r at an early date-there is a con J'I'Ir. HILEY: They were' introduced to tinuous opportunity for the Govemment and, rurb monopolistic capitalism. The hon. mem through the Government, for industry, to ber will find that my Government are more know months ahead what .Japanese imports ready to deal with that than his Government can arrive in Australia because the system were. However, to suggest that mere size of import licensing gives complete control. involves monopoly is to utterly misunderstand the whole situation. Consider the other side. Consider the effect of .Japan's support of the recent wool sales. Mr. Lloyd: We are afraid that it will In the two sales held in Queensland prior to gradually drift that way. the most recent one, one-third of the total offering was shipped to .Japan. .Japan pur }fr. HILEY: And that was Karl Marx's chased quite well, too, at the most recent fear lOO years ago. sale. In 1956-1957 £24.3 million of the total Let me pass now to the .Japanese Trade Queensland wool export of £86.3 million went Pact, on which the hon. member had a good to .Japan, or 28.2 per cent. deal to say. He mentioned, for example, I have never concealed my view that this women's blouses and painted a rather horri proposition is not confined to .Japan. I say fying picture of the complete dearth of exactly the same thing about New Zealand. employment in this country's textile industry. The wisest thing Australia as a nation can It was very refreshing to hear Mr. Bruce Pie, do, the wisest thing every important industry whose whole activities centre round the textile in Australia can do, is first of all to set out industry, say this week that there was little to sell its goods as widely as possible on to fear from the .Japanese Trade Pact. He world markets. I have a horror of any put his finger on the point that I made by industry's setting out to sell its goods in one interjection, but which the hon. member will narrow, protected market. If anything goes not recogni~e-that is, that all .Japanese wrong with that market there is complete exports will come within the control of the and utter tragedy. .Just as the wisest thing import licensing system. If £1,000,000 worth for Australia to do is to sell its exportable 668 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. products widely and broadly to all in the reached and it might have an adverse effect world who can afford to buy them and pay on consumer demand in the next year or for them, so in return we have a duty to two. trade as widely as we can with the world to Mr. Power: Do you know that there are build up better trade balances with the many firms operating on time payment out countries with whom we are dealing. I am side the Hire Purchase AcU never impressed with the contribution towards the cause of peace made by armies J.Ur. HILEY: That is so, but I think the in time of peace or by international politics. hon. member will find a few of them running The soundest contribution in the cause of for cover. Now that terms are coming back world peace is made by countries mutually to a more reasonable level I think he will trading, each helping, and making a profit find some of these fiy-by-nighters will :fly by from, the other. It very distinctly lessens night. It is the old, old story-create a the chance of war. The Commonwealth shortage and there is always somebody ready Government, in setting out to organise Aus to rush in and take advantage of it. That tralia's world trade on a basis of dealing is what the black marketeers did during the widely with the countries of the world, are war. When houses are short we find the making a real and serious contribution to the rent racketeers. When money is short preservation of world peace. through the ordinary channels there are always people who are prepared to lend The hon. member had something to say money at an excessive and usurious rate about hire-purchase companies. With the not always within the law. Australian Labour Party, we on this side of the Chamber do not object to hire Mr. Power: There are firms today that purchase as such, but we object to hire will accept a deposit of £1 with small purchase on usurious terms. That com weekly repayments. If they operated under pletely expresses our philosophy. However, the Hire Purchase Act they would have to it would be quite wrong to imagine that the demand a much greater deposit and much figures support the view that, since the banks greater weekly repayments. There are many began to take an interest in hire-purchase of them. finance, there has been an unbridled expansion in hire-purchase operations. The lUr. HILEY • I know the point the hon. reverse is true. In 1954 the balances out member is making about firms not operating standing amounted to £132.2 million and under the Hire Purchase Act. I would not they represented a 49 per cent. increase over be as ready as he was to allow traders to the figure for the previous year. The next make a monkey of the law, to trade with no year's figures represented an increase of 38 deposit, when the whole purpose of the law per cent., the following year 16 per cent. was to try to insist that hire purchase in and last year's figure represented an increase this country should be conducted with con of 11 per cent. So the rate of increase is trolled rates of interest and minimum rates coming down. of deposit. Mr. Lloyd: Might have reached satura Mr. Power: There is no breach of the tion point. law when they are operating outside the Hire Purchase Act. There is no protection lUr. IDLEY: Elxactly. Indeed, one of the for them. factors leading to some slight momentary checking in the intensity of trade operations Mr. HILEY: Elxactly, because that is the in this country is the fact that the hire way the law was drawn. I think it would pmchase debt, which had been continuously have been far wiser to draw the law in a mounting, has now levelled off and is even manner to give effective control over the running down a little. whole field of hire-purchase trade. Several hon. members opposite expressea It is one of the factors that has led to disappointment at the absence of any radical some easing back in consumer demand which change in the form and content of the has caused this little faltering in the inten Budget. In my cricketing days I always sity of trade operation in Australia today. thought it a very good maxim not to try It is not peculiar to this country. About to hit sixers in the first· over but rather to 10 days ago I received the report of the see what was in the bowling and get the world bank in the United States of America. atmosphere before attempting to gather The world bank has been reviewing the runs. In this instance the new Government · various factors affecting the intensity of took office only a matter of days before we commercial demand in the important coun had to face up to the financial responsibility tries of the world as part of a study to try of Supply, the preparation of a Budget and to find the extent to which full employment then its presentation. is likely to continue without radical check. One of the factors that caused the world Mr. Lloyd: You svent a great deal of bank greatest concern was that the volume time telling people what you were going of hire-purchase indebtedness which had to do. been steadily mounting in the U.S.A. has now levelled off. The world bank was con JUr. HILEY: Departmental resources Mrned lest the saturation point had been need a very full survey. Had we pressed Supply. (29 OCTOBER.) Supply. 669
depa1·tmental officers, in the short time avail Mr. HILEY: No. If we ask for extra able, to give effect to all the things we have services, they may say, "We will supply it in mind we would have openly invited mis if you pay for the extra officers.'' The takes. We would have asked them to so serviceR we are able to get now we shall rush the task that there could not have been continue to get free of cost, but if we want proper consideration given to or a full something extra they may ask us to pay for examination made of all the aspects that the additional officers. need investigating. Mr. Davies: You would pay the salaries. Mr. Hanlon: You promise something out of the box next year~ llir. HILEY: Yes. Mr. Colmrn: What do you estimate is Mr. HILEY: There will be changes the saving to Queensland~ showing up before this year is out. There will be many more changes in the years that Mr. HILEY: About £100,000 a year. I lie ahead. This notion that we should rush return to the thought I expressed earlier into office and engage in the kid dies' game about conducting certain operations on a of upsetting the family couch is something bigger basis. One of the lessons of the that we refuse to do. There will be changes, modern business age is that there must be but they will come after the most careful a certain volume of work before it pays to and exhaustive study of every factor. I put in the :finest machine or the latest device. still think that we will be able to carry out It is a waste of time and money to install in the form originally envisaged most of in a tiny show a machine with fantastic pro what we intend to do, and in a slightly varied ductive capacity, because it may operate for form, the remainder. We will incorporate only two hours a week. There must be a big those matters in our budgets when we have demand before the machine is worthwhile. In worked out every detailed aspect and have the :field of statistkal services the electronic every answer to the questions that this Par punch-card machine is fantastic in its work liament and the State are entitled to ask us capacity, that is, volume of work, and the on them. The :first change that has taken speed and certainty with which it operates, place-this is not a policy change--! take but the volume of work must be available to the earliest opportunity of reporting to you, make it worthwhile. and that is the move in process for integrat ing the services of the Government Statis Mr. Walsh: In an office such as the tician in a single Commonwealth unified State Government Insurance Office. service. There will be a single statistical Mr. HILEY: Yes. The Government are service for the whole of the Commonwealth considering this on the works side, although with offices in each State. Every Government it may be several years before a decision is has a duty to examine every question of reached. The Government are retaining duplication and do what it can to keep throughout the State a series of pay offices down the national expenditure. We think for the main sections of the Public Service. this is a move in the right direction. Every Those offices deal in a slow and laborious way staff member will be protected, and every with all the work records, tax deduction, existing service to the State will be con insurance group scheme contributions and so tinued, such as the Queensland Year Book, on. It is possible that one electronic machi~e the Queensland Pocket Year Book and the in a central pay office could handle public monthly bulletins. Every service now being servants' pays on :Monday, teachers' pays on given must be available at our request from Tuesday, police pays on Wednesday and rail the Queensland office of the Commonwealth way pays on Thursday. The speed of opera statistical service. Our departments will be tion of that machine compared with the entitled to the same ready access to informa present system would be just the same as the tion which they are now able to obtain. If, speed of a modern car compared with a in the years that lie ahead, we feel it desir coach-and-four. That is one of the subjects able to ask for some new service that the engaging the Government's attention at the Commonwealth does not see the wisdom of moment. I do not prophesy that it will come providing now, we will be ready to ask for to pass, but it is a challenge when consider the appointment of additional officers and ing an integrated statistical service. The pay the cost of their services. volume of work must be available to make the installation of such a machine economic. ltlr. Walsh: Will the State contribute anything to the service~ I mention for the sake of the hon. member for Bund~berg, that that is where the Com lllr. HILEY: No. The Commonwealth monwealth Government receive an advantage will bear the full cost of the present service. from an integrated statistical service. The It will be retrospective to 1 July last, and, machine does not provide the information as icing on top of the cake, they will pay [three mon1fhs or Bioc months later. The £4-,000 a year rent from 1 July last. amazing feature of electronic punch-card machines is that they are fed >vith thousands lllr. Walsh: There is a nigger in the of statistics an hour and they tell you al woodpile somewhere. (Laughter.) most immediately the result, Mr. Davies: Any additional officers will Mr. Walsli: They would cost about be the responsibility of the State. £20,000. 670 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
Mr. HILEY: They may cost £40,000 or That is the answer to the low priority. The £50,000. The volume of work must be avail Minister will tell hon. members that thanks able to justify that expenditure. to the Mary Kathleen grant and the diesel tax the Government will b
Mr. Walsh: Over 90,000,000 bushels. Mr. HILEY: That is right: We will neec1 every bushel of it. I give the Committee Mr. HILEY: That is so. This year, how that information to show the problem that ever, New South Wales expects to harvest cunfronts the Fecleral Government. It is not only 3,000,000 bushels. That will give hon. simply a Queensland drought problem; it members some idea of the terrible drought affects the three eastern States. The Com that she has suffered. monwealth have a very serious problem on ~Ir. Power: John Teasdale told them to their hands anc1 we are waiting to hear what 1·educe their acreage, too. they can clo not only for Queensland but also for New South Wales and Victoria, where Mr. HILEY: If the acreage was reduced the ravages are very great. this year, by a Gilbertian twist it has simply meant that less seed and less petrol have Mr. Lloyd: The surplus wheat produc been wasted. Actually, his advice may have tion in Canada coulc1 affect our export been of great benefit, although in the markets, too. opposite way from which he intended. I have watched the position as it applies to lUr. HILEY: That has always been the world food stocks for many years, and it is case and that is why Australia is very rightly my firm opinion that in making your calcula anxious to holc1 on to its existing customers tions you cannot disregard the ravages of anc1 not let them clown. If she were to say drought. I take hon. members back to the this year, ''I am sorry. We have no wheat earliest days of mankind.-before the birth for you". what woulc1 they do~ They would of Christ, back to the days of the Pharoahs make a fresh tracle contact, and when an to the parable of the seven fat years and existing tracle connection is broken it is like the seven lean years. Whether it is drought the case of the commercial traveller who loses or pestilence or flood, the provision of food a customer. It was harc1 to get him; it is for the people is not something of regular twice as hard to get him back. That i5 a great depenclability. At a time when everything truth. seems to be very favourable, something can happen anc1 the worlc1 can experience want. 3[r. 1Valsh: Repeat orders are very During a perioc1 when worlc1 fooc1 prices were essential to markets. 672 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.
Mr. HILEY: Very essential. The Gov When Nestles returned to Queensland they ernment's policy on drought relief is not to endeavoured to show farmers how to avoid stop at merely doling out some very small a drop in production in the off season. In help to those farmers who are actually impov a few cases along the Mary River they have erished. They have nn even greater concern succeeded to a noticeable degree, so much for those farmers whose productive capacity so that in spite of the extraordinary drought is hurt both during the drought and in the the Wide Bay Co-operative Dairy Associa months and years after it because of crippling tion's figures show that their production is stock losses,-men who may well have some far better sustained than in any comparable money in the bank but whose productive capa district in the State. Special grasses, mostly city is hurt, because of which the economy of clovers, have helped to make this possible. the nation is weaker until the damage is The extraordinary thing about the scheme repaired. As a first step, we have asked the is that the farmers have greatly increased Federal Government to review the income-tax production at a relatively trifling cost. There laws to encourage fodder storage whether the is no glamorous water supply scheme but fodder is gro>Yn by the farmer himself or small water storage schemes in some cases bought in. I do not intend this morning to individual to the farmer and in other cases enter into a detailed exposition of that beyond a small group scheme at low capital cost. saying that under existing tax laws the man Instead of having to spend huge sums of who makes prudent provision for drought money to lead water from where it is stored hazard does so at the expense of a tax deter to where it will be used, the storage is almost rent. The Commonwealth Government might cheek by jowl with the pasture to be irri well examine the matter to see whether, by gated. I draw the attention of hon. mem rearranging the impact of income tax in such bers to an article that appeared in "Queens eases, they can provide not a deterrent but a land Country Life" on 17 October last. It positive encouragement to a man to buy and referred to the excellent work done by Mr. store all the fodder he can in good years for Norgaard at Nara in the Oakey district. It use in time of need. shows that in the year in which the general Mr. Walsh: They do it in the case of ravages of drought on the Darling Downs water supply so they should do it in the case have been as severe as anyone can remember,
side of mere money relief. We reject the From discussions with my Cabinet col idea that mere money relief is the be-all and leagues, and partieularly from the Premier's end-all. We have to provide a preventive statements in so many places, I know that programme for the drought problem. there is no problem that worries the Premier llfr. Cobnrn: Ringbarking is also more than the disposition in Queensland to wrapped up in it. Will the Committee accept seasonal unemployment. The Govern inquire into that, toof ment do not like it. They are concerned about it. I do not pretend that we have the Mr. HILEY: It may. I shall attend to answer, but if the will to look for the answer the matter. precedes the answer, at least we have a The next important matter was unemploy chance of finding the answer. rr mt. It is very significant that this is a Mr. Power: I wish you luck. · atter on which the Labour Party was Mr. HILEY: I am sure the hon. member "xtremely silent when in office. I know hon. does. members opposite will not like to hear the figures that I shall quote. They are as Mr. Lloyd: As long as you do not rob follows:- Peter to pay Paul. Number of Mr. HILEY: I agree that would not be Month. Unemployed. the answer. .January 4,083 February 4,218 To what is the slackness due at the March 3,802 momenH I should say it is due first of all to a slackness in building. In my opinion April 3,876 the building industry is one of the greatest May 3,062 contributors to stable and widespread employ .June 2,851 .July 2,411 ment in any country. In home-building August 2,216 Queensland is in a fortunate position because September 2,458 the homes have a 95 per cent. content of Queensland labour and materials, let alone JUr. Power: That is not the true posi the Australian content. The building indus tion. You should get the figures of those try is a better stimulant to local employment who applied and are still waiting. than some public works sueh as a hydro electric station. For that the great alter Mr. HILEY: If those figures were given nators and other expensive items have to be it would show a worse position when the imported. Even for main roads work the Labour Government were in power. Let me sealing compound for the top of roads has say that the Government do not regard to be imported. The Minister for Develop social service unemployment needs as a ment, Mines, and Main Roads would confirm satisfactory answer to the problem of unem my statement that if his department did not ployment. There is no alternative to the have to pay for bitumen a great deal of responsibility of any Government to do all extra money would be available. The build in their power to see that opportunities for ing industry is unique in the extent to which steady and worthwhile employment are avail it affects local employment. The general able for the great majority of citizens. slackness is due to a slackness in building. lllr. "Wood: The only real answer is a It is also brought about by the tightness job. of commercial finance, the fact that hire purchase has gone over the top, the lack of JUr. HILEY: Elxactly. support for public borrowings, and latterly the hazard of drought. Of those five points, llir. Walsh: I shall be interested to see the figures next year, only drought is new. I shall state the Gov ernment's intentions and efforts to stimulate lUr. HILEY: The hon. member may be employment demand. We propose to attack surprised. I do not need to tell him that the building problem, to get more support his Government, in 30 years, were never able in the fields of demand for houses and house to do anything to straighten out the erection. In that way employment in saw seasonal trough that occurred from Christ mills and factories producing components mas to April. That is one of the complaints will be stimulated. It will mean more employ I have had, that Labour Governments did ment in the whole industry. not deal with this problem; that the working On public borrowings the Government are man has had to put up with seasonal unem endeavouring to organise more support for ployment on a large scale. During the sugar public borrowers so that their programmes season and the meatworks season there was will not have to be cut back because of lack large employment and then there would be of finance. Federal aid has already been a distinct drop. That happened in most secured to sustain main roads activity. years. I hope to be in a position to make To return to public borrowings, councils, an announcement shortly that may provide harbour boards, hospitals boards and elec a fillip to employment for a year or two at tricity undertakings receive authority from any rate. I do not pretend tliat what we the Loan Couooil to raise funds for certain are able to do will be a permanent answer. approved works. To give an idea of the 1957-Y 674 Supply. . [ASSEMBLY.] Supply .
figures, authority was given to the State last financial institutions we can look at every year to spend £20,000,000 on works and public body and say, ''When you get your £3,160,000 on housing. The figure for local approval from the Loan Council you will bodies, that is, semi-governmental and local not need to worry about raising the money; authorities was £17,940,000, so that about it is there.'' Of course, now they have to 40 per cent. of the total loan programme and go through the Co-ordinator-General of borrowing programmes for the State was for Public Works in both the State and the Com semi-governmental bodies and local authorities. monwealth spheres and in turn the Loan Council, and when they get approval they JUr. Walsh: More, if you take into have to find somebody' prepared to lend the account the amount provided from your own money. In organising aid for our public funds. bodies we will be making a real contribution Mr. HILEY: That is correct, in loans towards the maintenance of employment
Mr. IDLEY: I take the view that while Mr. Lloyd: There is no delay at the there is a shortage there is no excuse for present time. easing up in the effort. As long as a short age exists, our job is to keep building homes. Mr. HILEY: I would be glad if the I do not care whether we have 10 people a hon. member would tell the ex-Treasurer that. 1,000 unhoused or 100 people a 1,000. On top of these additional amounts we will be introducing legislation to enable the Mr. Walsh: You would agree that pro Government to guarantee advances to building portionately the shortage is less in Queens societies. The amount to be drawn is land than in any other State~ unpredictable but we have made representa tions to the Central Bank for extra finance to Mr. HILEY: That may be, but it merely be made available to the Savings Bank in expresses the degree of misery. The only Queensland so that if the demand is there answer to the housing problem is to keep applications will not be rejected merely organising to build homes until there are because of shortage of funds. Through the enough for all the people. Any shortage is Federal Treasurer I pointed out to the Cen a matter for reproach. I am not content to tral Bank that New South Wales and Vic think that if we have a shortage of five per toria have been able to draw £180,000,000 cent. we are doing better than another State during a time when Queensland neglect~d with a shortage of 10 per cent. We are bad; this important source. It would be fantastic they are worse. It does not alter the fact to imagine that the bank would have with that we are bad. It is our task and our held the percentage that Queensland required. responsibility, as it is the responsibility of Money that should have been used on home any Queensland Government, to do everything construction in Queensland is in fact part of possible to meet the full housing needs of the the £180,000,000 spent on houses in New people. South Wales and Victoria. I have asked the Central Bank whether out of the money avail 1\'Ir. Walsh: I do not disagree with that, able it could divert something extra to but I am saying that the housing position is Queensland so that when we start the move better in Queensland than in any other State ment off we can at least catch up a little on of Australia. what we lost in the past. I should be very Mr. Dewar: Mainly due to the low intake well contented if between now and June we of migrants. were able to get £1,500,000 extra for build ing society guarantees. Mr. Walsh: Mainly due to Labour Governments. With what the War Service Homes division is doing and our own extra spending there Mr. Dewar: Rot! should be a huge increase in home-building activity in Queensland. I am trying to show li'Ir. Lloyd: Have you the figures of the what the Government are doing to stimulate rent of an ordinary type of dwelling con employment and overcome seasonal unem structed today under the Fair Rents ployment. administration. Mr. Power: Much of the money spent by Mr. HILEY: I have, but I have not got the War Service Homes division will not mean it here. one new home. 1\'Ir. Lloyd: £7 or £8 a week on the present basis. Mr. HILEY: We have no jurisdiction over their spending. All money made avail Mr. HILEY: No! Let me quickly tell able to tlw State Government will be used for hon. members what we are doing to step it new homes. up. This year the War Service Homes The hon. member for Mundingburra made Division will spend £600,000 more, the only attack on the public administration the Queensland Housing Commission an when he referred to the acquisition of the additional £400,000, and the building Charters Towers undertaking by the Towns societies £160,000 more. The State will be ville Regional Electricity Board. He devoted spending £300,000 less on rental homes. the whole of his time to the matter. It would 1\'Ir. Walsh: There is a delay of 18 months have been a much better speech had he left to two years in ·war Service Home appli half of it out-it would; not have mattered cations. which half! He thrashed himself into an ecstacy of hatred. He discovered the Mr. HILEY: I am talking about the minutes, he said that Ford, Row and Words homes to be built. They will be spending worth had been opposed to the whole thing; £600,000 more this year than last year. I am he attacked the failure to give power and trying to analyse the programme quan light to the farming community and said titatively. that it was a bad deal financially. I will deal with each of these points in the order in ::Ur. Walsh: There has been a delay in which he presented them. the building of War Service homes. The minutes are a publi~ d.ocument. The Mr. HILEY: It has been very bad. They Townsville Regional Electricity Board is com are spending more money. posed of representatives of local authorities. Supply. (29 OCTOBER.] Police ActB Amendment Bill. 677
Every local authority which has representa capacity of the State Electricity Commis tives on the Board after every monthly meet sioner, Mr. Neil Smith, will agree with me ing of T.R.E.B. gets a cyclo-style copy of that it was an improper attack and an the minutes. This is no skull and dagger unworthy aspersion on the character of one stuff; it is no hidden stored-away secret. whom I look upon as a very great public The minutes of T.R.E.B. are relatively public seTvant of this State. property amongst all the constituent bodies. I have almost exhausted the time available I go as far as to say that any northern mem to me. This is the first occasion on which I ber interested in the doings of T.R.E.B. who have presented a Budget, and I repeat my likes to ask for a copy while they are run appreciation of the temperate criticism and ning them off on the cyclo-style could have the thoughtful observations of hon. members. one. The hon. member said that certain councillors were opposed to the transaction. Item (Aide-de-Camp to His Excellency the T'he hon. member put his foot in it there Governor) agreed to. and showed how utterly out of touch he was Progress reported. with feelings in his own area. He was saying what these men were thinking 18 months ago. Here is a letter from Mr. POLICE ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. Sherriff, Chairman of the Townsville Elec tricity Board, dated 16 October, 1957, which SECOND READING. reads as follows:- Hon. K. J. MORRIS (Mount Coot-tha ''My attention has recently been drawn Minister for Labour and Industry) (12.36 to public statements that Councillors Ford, p.m.) : I move- Row and W ordsworth opposed at the time '' That the Bill be now read a second the take over of the Charters Towers time.'' Electricity Supply Company as from 1st January, 1956, on the grounds that this As hon. members have the Bill, they will rea take over prior to the construction of the lise that my earlier statements were quite cor transmission line would interfere with rect. It is a very simple Bill. development in other rural areas of the Although it is simple, the principle Region. Results have since proved that this involved is important. I shall not traverse did not in fact occur and furthermore that ground that I covered earlier. I mention the Board has shovYn a profit as a result of again that ample opportunity to discuss the the operation of the original Charters department will be available in the near Towers system. future. I shall not go into great detail about ''Councillors Ford, Row and W ordswoTth police operations. :have already stated that in view of the A police officer charged in a Criminal Court results achieved the decision to take over and suspended is reinstated following acquit the Charters Towers Electricity Supply tal, and payment during the period of sus Compa11y from 1st January, 1956, was pension is 11 matter for the decision of the correct and in discussions with them today, Commissioner. I said that earlier, but I they have authorised me to advise you repeat it because I think it should be recog again of their present opinion.'' nised by hon members. It just shows that the hon. member does not My next point is that . a police officer realise that in the 18 months since he heard charged departmentally and suspended and about it the men on the Board who were at found not guilty is reinstated, and payment the time opposed to it have been big enough during the period of suspension is a matter to say, ''We thought it was wrong at the for the Commissioner. Generally the officer time, but we are big enough to admit that is paid for such period. we were wrong, and that the decision was perfectly correct.'' In fact, this decrepit The third point is that a police officer plant functioned till the line was put through charged departmentally and suspended and and instead of working at a loss it operated ultimately found guilty and punished by dis at a profit, and it did not interfere with missal receives no payment during the period their programme of carrying electric reticula of suspension. Further, if on being found tion to the farming areas. I do not, and the guilty he is disrated, fined, transferred or Government do not, suggest that members of reprimanded, he is immediately reinstated this House should in any way be restrained and whether he should be paid for the p~riod from attacking the purpose of any official on of suspension is a matter for the Commis fair grounds and after a careful study of the sioner. My comment on that point is that information available. But I say this to the the Bill makes it easier for the Commissioner hon. member for Mundingburra and to hon. to authorise a police officer in those circum members generally, that while Parliament stances to find some approved employment, if provides a great opportunity for ventilating not employment in the department, because these matters, side by side with that is the sometimes that is not possible. That means very great responsibility to use the facilities that during that period some money would be of Parliament with all its protection and going into his home, which is not the case privilege, in a responsible manner. Anyone at the present time. who studies the great splurge madt> on the My next point is that a police officer who Townsville Regional Electricity Board with all is charged departmentally and found guilty its innuendoes against the integrity and and punished has the right of appeal. If 678 Police Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. the punishment imposed is other than dis Itir. ItiORRIS: I think the hon. member missal, he is reinstated after the decision as will know that it is not altogether desirable to penalty, pending the determination of the nor practicable to go back over the years appeal. In those circumstances, during the to try to rectify all the evils. Perhaps I period of his suspension no money is going am not using the right word; perhaps into his house and in my view he is receiving "injustices" might be better. I am trying double punishment. That is quite wrong. at the earliest opportunity to rectify what The person appointed by the Commissioner I think is an injustice. to conduct an investigation into charges of lUr. Houston: I said, "In the future?" misconduct, &e., preferred against a police officer after hearing evidence expresses an llir. lliORRIS: That is why I am intro opinion whether the charge has been proved ducing the Bill. and this is contained in his report to the Commissioner. The Commissioner is the per Mr. Houston: Those suspended and son who must decide whether or not the found not guilty received no payment~ officer is guilty or not guilty. I think those statements will clarify some of the points Mr. ItiORRIS: He received no payment. previously raised. Before concluding my The case I am quoting occurred last year. comments I shall give a few examples so that And then there was another constable, a hon. members will realise the disadvantage single man, who was under suspension from to police officers under the present Act. I 14 July, 1956, to 26 September, 1956. He shall give the names of the officers concerned was charged with unlawfully killing. He and the full details. The :first is Constable was under suspension for 2 months 14 days. Desmoml, a married man who was charged He was acquitted of the charge, reinstated, with stealing goods in transit and was under but not paid for the period under suspension. suspension from 8 December, 1953, to He was then charged departmentally and was 31 March, 1954, a period of 3 months 25 suspended on 12 November, 1956. It is now days. I should like it to be recognised that almost the end of October, 1957, and he is the man was acquitted of the charge. He was still under suspension and has had no salary reinstated but he was not paid for the time during that period. under suspension. }lr. Power: That is the fault of the Perhaps it would be more desirable if I magistrate dealing with the case. did not give the names of the officers, but if any hon. member wishes I can supply the Mr. lliORRIS: I am not saying it is the names. The next is the case of a constable, fault of the former Attorney-General, or of married, charged in the Criminal Court with anybody else. It is a weakness in the law, assault, who was under suspension from a weakness that I am seeking to have removed. 7 June, 1956, to 25 8eptember, 1956, or 3 Whether it is the fault of the former months and 19 days. He also was acquitted Attorney-General, the former Treasurer, or and was reinstated but was not paid for the the former Minister in charge of the depart period under suspension. ment, is not the point. The important thing JUr. Walsh: The King George Square is that I am trying to rectify what I regard case~ The assault ease~ as an injustice. Mr. W01od: Is that the case. that you }Ir. ;)I ORRIS: I am prepared to give the referred to during the introductory stage hon. member the names of the persons but as being sub judice~ I do not want to mention them publicly. This man was acquitted after 3 months 19 days suspension and was reinstated but he lllr. JliORRIS: Yes. That is why I have not mentioned the name. Perhaps I am going was not paid for the period he was under suspension. I make it clear that there might further than I should, but in justice to hon. have been some reason for that. I do not members I feel that I should give some know the mind of the then Commissioner. details. There might have been some reason for the I have mentioned suspensions of 2 months decision not to pay him but again it would be and 14 days, and 11 months. There is an injustice, in my opinion, that during another case in which an officer received no the 3 months 19 days he was not permitted money from the department for 13 months to do any work outside the Police Force. and has not been permitted to earn anything Mr. "Windsor: He was supposed to be in any other capacity. I have the details of another case, too, which is almost innocent from the fact that he was acquitted~ identical with the one that I have already ~Ir. J110RRIS: Yes. mentioned. It is that of a constable who was suspended for 2 months and 14 days, lir. Houston: Are you going to look into during which he received no payment. He cases like that in the future~ was acquitted of the charge, but he has been under suspension without pay since 12 3Ir. lUORRIS: These cases occurred November of last year. some 12 months ago. I pay a tribute to the members of the Police }Ir. Houston: In the future? Force for putting their hands in their pockets Police Acts (29 OCTOBER.) Amendment Bill. 679
and ensuring that men who are under sus 1\Ir. WOOD (North Toowoomba-L,eader pension do not go without the reasonable of the Opposition) ( 12.51 p.m.) : As this is necessaries of life. But that should not be a very minor amending Bill containing only necessary. one principle I shall not say very much a bout I come now to another case that may not it. As the Deputy Leader of the Opposition be quite as bad as some of the others. It is said on the introductory stage, there is no that of a former senior sergeant who was objection to any measure designed to give suspended from 22 February, 1951, till 16 justice to any member of the public. It April, 1951. No payment was made to him would appear from the debate that took whilst under suspension. place then that one particular case precipi I could give other instances, but it would tated the Bill, although there may have been merely be doubling up on those that I have others. The Minister cited some of them mentioned. In fairness to the previous this morning. Government, there were some cases in which Jlir. Morris: Two cases, really. officers who had been suspended were paid in full following their acquittal. Mr. WOOD: Well, two cases. I agree wholeheartedly with the proposition that no Mr. Wood: Have you a knowledge of member under suspension should be placed any reason why payment for the period of in such a position that his wife and children suspension has been made in some cases where the man has been acquitted and not in have to depend on charity, but the Bill in itself will not solve the problem. ·More others~ could be done administratively than through Jlir. :tU ORRIS: I have no personal legislation. Far more good would be achieYed knowledge. No such case has come before if the Police Commissioner and his officers me for decision since I have been in charge reduced to a minimum the time between an of the Police Department. I do not know officer's suspension and the disposal of his why the previous Administration made pay case. The Minister cited three of four cases ment in some cases and not in others. I where police officers had been under suspen have no means of knowing that. sion for a considerable time. I urge him to see if those delays can be reduced to an Mr. Houston: It would not be the Admin absolute minimum. I asked him if he could istration that refused payment previously. give any Teason why one police officer under It would be the Commissioner. suspension who is acquitted is pai~ wh!le ::lir. Hanlon: Does that not suggest that another is not. There may be spemal cir you should make the Minister the deciding cumstances but, as a general principle, the authority instead of the Commissioner~ department should take the same view in each case when a court of law fincls an officer ::lir. JliORRIS: In all fairness, I think the not guilty. Moreover, following his acquittal hon. member is being very naive. Surely he should not be called on to suffer any he recognises that Ministers have almost financial loss. daily consultations with their senior officers~ Even on the passing of the Bill the Jlir. Walsh: And they either accept or problem will not be solved. The Commissioner 1·eject the recommendations put to them. will have the right to agree to a suspenc1ec1 police officer's engaging in some other work Jlir. JliORRIS: That is so. outside the department but in many cases some time could elapse between a man's sus Jlir. Walsh: The matter does not origi pension and his realisation that his case nate with the Minister. would take some time. He has lost that time for a start, What happens if he cannot find Mr. JIORRIS: That is so. It originates alternative employment"? A police officer with the Commissioner. Recommendations suspended berause of a charge of unlawfully come before the Minister, and obviously he killing might find that he could not get uses his judgment. Of course, I am not employment. The Bill cloes not alter .his suggesting that it was for personal reasons circumstances one iota. Could not somethmg that some suspended police officers received be clone to assist the man who cannot find payment and others did not. employment~ It would be impossible for me to study the Cabinet should c1iscuss the position as it background of all these eases and tell hon. applies to the Public Service. If it is right members who was responsible for any one that the privilege be given to a suspended decision. However, I have the full eo-opera police officer it is equally right that the tion of the Commissioner so that we shall be same privilege should be given to every able to ensure in the future that >Yhere a Crown employee who might be suspended. police officer is not permitted to continue in If the argument is valid that a police his employment and is subsequently found officer under suspension can obtain the Com guilty, he shall in the intervening period be missioner's approval to engage in employ able to earn enough money to keep himself ment outside his department, in all justice and his c1epemlants, if any. That is the whole it is equally valid that the same right should reason for the Bill. I think hon. members be given to every member of the Public will recognise its justice and I have every Service who finds himself in similar confidence that they will approve of it. circumstances. '680 Police Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill.
I approve of the Bill but for the reasons Any attempt to put the Police Force on the I already stated it does not entirely solve same plane as other public administration the problems of the suspended officer. On sections would not be doing the police any behalf of the Opposition I recommend that good nor would it be in the interests of the the Deputy Premier have discussions with community. There are other problems to Cabinet to see whether the same privilege be considered. Has any consideration been cannot be extended to all members of the given to the question whether a police officer Public Service. under suspension is still held to bf' a police officer until he is proved guilty of the offence~ lir. W ALSH (Bundaberg) (12.57 p.m.) : If it has, what are his rights in other forms It is to the credit of the Police Force that of employment outside the Police Force~ If the Minister was able to cite only very few he is engaged at the abattoir or at a foundry cases. and meets with an accident, what are his Mr. Morris: I could have cited more. rights~ Members of the Police Force are They are here if the hon. member wants to not subject to the Workers' Compensation see them. Acts. There are many factors to be con sidered. If a police officer meets with an Mr. W ALSH: The Minister apparently accident or is killed he or his next-of-kin went back to 1953. I would not know how are entitled to the same compensation as a many years the provision has been in the person who is injured or killed in industry. law-certainly long before Labour took That is a factor that should not be lost sight office-but it has continued for a very long of. What would be the rights of the police period without challenge. It is all very well officer under the Workers' Compensation Acts to say that the Police Force should be put if he is working in industry while under sus on the same basis as the Public Service. It pension~ I hope that the Minister ":ill give would be in the interests of neither the consideration to that before the Bill goes Police Force nor the community. For many into Committee. It was discussed by the pre reasons the Police Force should not be put vious Government because of the long period on the same basis as the Public Service. that these two police officers have been under I agree that the measure does not go the suspension. That invited the question whether whole way, but it does give somebody some they should be allowed to work while under authority to decide who shall or who shall suspension. That does not overcome the not be permitted to work during a period of difficulty. The Commissioner will still ~ave suspension. It is unfortunate that the Bill the right to say so, just as he has the nght should be introduced in the atmosphere of to recommend to the Minister whether the the case at present before the Court. If police officer shall receive pa;vment for t~e there is any delay the parties to some extent period he is under suspensiOn.. That. IS can blame their legal representatives who apparently not being changed. It IS a straight will raise technical points merely to get the out provision to enable poli~e officers ~o seek limelight. employment during the. penod of thm.r .sus pension. The Commissioner or the Mim~ter JUr. liorris: That is quite unfair. still retains some hold, in that he determmes whether the officer should be paid during the lir. Connolly interjected. period of his suspension. The question arises lir. W ALSH: I am expressing my views why in some cases he should recommend that a.s freely as I can in the Chamber, irrespec an officer be paid and in other cases he may tiVe of what the hon. member for Kurilpa not. It does not follow, because a court or may say about it. When he reaches maturity an appeal board finds in favour of an accused I may take notice of him. It is unfortunate or an appellant, that the onus is on the Gov that the Bill has been introduced while the ernment to reinstate that officer. case is still before the Court. It is also unfortunate for the two men. Reading the lfr. llorris: No. Minister's speech I gained the impression that they were married men. }fr. W ALSH: The que,stion why there should be a variation has been asked. By lfr. }Iorris: I did not say they were. way of illustration I mention a case that happened some years ago. A school teacher }fr. W ALSH: That was the inference. was charged with an offence against one of This matter was considered by the previous the pupils. He was dismissed, but the Appeal Government. The then Minister for Labour Board upheld his appeal. The Governor-in and Industry, the hon. member for Charters Council, however, did not give effect to the Towers, Mr. J ones, had approved of the decision of the Appeal Board because th: principle to be incorporated in legislation. department was in possession of information Everybody knows that we have been through that had not been fully ventilated. The troublous times and political turmoil, and the last session did not provide an oppor recommendation of the Appeal Board was tunity for it. If it was suspension for two not accepted by the Governor-in-Council. The months or three months probably the Minister same decision could be applied to police would not be much concerned, any more than officers. It does not follow that an acquittal the previous Government were, but there or successful appeal is justification for are vital principles connected with the matter. reinstatement. Police Acts [29 OCTOBER.] A.mendmentlBill. 68f
I think hon. members have conceded that 1\Ir. Walsh: No more than your observa-· the principle of allowing a decision on whether tions about other members of the legal pro an officer should work or not during his period fession. of suspension is sound. I emphasise that the previous Government approved the ~Ir. CONNOLLY: Let us confine our decision. selves to the observations made bv the hon. member for Bundaberg. The observations I Mr. CONNOLLY (Kurilpa) (2.22 p.m.): made about the conduct of the Crown through Hon. members on both sides of the Chamber its retained advocates in its proceedings are seem to agree that this is a humane Bill. It not germane to this Bill. Let us on both is designed to fill a gap in administration sides of the House remember that it is the that no doubt the Commissioner will be right of the legal representative of the pleased to have filled. citizen to take every available point he can There are two aspects. The first is the in the interests of his client, but for the man who loses his appeal but who neverthe GoYernment to take advantage of every less has received no remuneration during his legal point against the citizen does not reflect suspension. Some hon. members may think credit on them. that he has brought his troubles on his own 1\Ir. Walsh interjected. head, nevertheless the humane view is that a man, whether successful or not in his appeal, JUr. CONNOLLY: It reflects no credit on should not be deprived of the opportunity of the hon. member and upon the Government earning a living during that period. On the of which he was a member. If any point other hand, there is the officer who wins his appears to assist the person prosecuting liti appeal and who receives the most favourable gation on behalf of the subject against the treatment, reinstatement with back pay. That Crown, nobody would object to the taking is small consolation for the fact that he has of that point. Points of law are not neces not been bringing money into the home. It sarily wrongly taken in any case, because they is better that he should be allowed to take do not always succeed. If it was so, no Crown employment elsewhere. No doubt in recom instrumentality would have a proud mending to the Minister whether or not there record in litigation. I have instanced where should be payment of back pay, the Com the Crown has unfairly taken points against missioner will take into account that the the subject, but I do not think anybody officer has been earning a salary for the sup would object to the subject: exercising all port of his wife and children during that his rights against the Crown. period. Mr. Power: If I was charged with some I shall comment on a couple of points thing I do not think I would get you to made by the Leader of the Opposition. He defend me. commended to the Minister the minimising of delay in dealing with appeals. Within ~Ir. CONNOLLY: If the hon. member limits, no doubt that can be done and will for Baroona were to seek my services, be done, but it must be remembered that a although I would have no confidence in the person prosecuting an appeal and the depart brief, I would be obliged to take it. I should ment resisting the appeal must have ample know that I was doomed at the start. time for the preparation of their cases, and The Leader of the Opposition referred to it is not uncommon in my experience to the differential treatment meted out by the have long delays because of reserver1 judg Commissioner in the case of certain police ments of courts and appeal boards. There is officers receiving back pay and others not a distinct limit to the extent to which the receiving it, all being successful in their Government can minimise the time taken appeals. Broadly speaking, I am bound to for the finalisation of appeals of this nature say that the observations of the hon. mem or, indeed, of other matters of a litigious ber for Bundaberg are not unreasonable in character. the circumstances. It is true that the result It has been said that a case is at present of appeal proceedings might not necessarily before the court. I do not think that is reveal all the knowledge which was in the accurate. I think the courts have finished possession of the Crown because of the rules with it and that it has been referred back of evidence. This Bill leaves it to the discre to the Magistrate appointed by the Minister tion of the Commissioner or the Minister or or the Commissioner to investigate the charge. the Government as to what is the proper I think the investigation has now been com thing to do. pleted. That is the extent of my information. l\'Ir. Walsh: An aquittal could be on a legal point. ~fr. Walsh: There was some talk of a High Court appeal. lUr. COXNOLLY: Yes. The step taken in the Billl is a reasonable and just one. It ~Ir. COXNOLLY: I do not think that is going on. enables the Commissioner to say to the perso11. under suspension or suspicion, ''You may The hon. member for Bundaberg said that go out and earn yourself a living.'' At the certain technical points are taken by legal present time the Commissioner may not do advisers in order to get into the limelight. that. That is the humane attitude to take That is not a very fair observation. up. 682 Animals Protection, &c., Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Goal and Oil Shale, &c., Bill.
As to the point raised by the hon. mem This is merely a machinery measure. There ber for Bundaberg relative to workers' com is in this State an organisation previously pensation payable to a police officer under called the Queensland Society for the Pre suspension the employer in my opinion-! vention of Cruelty, and under Section 3 of have not had the opportunity of looking at the Act ''officer'' is defined as an officer it thoroughly-would have to make provision of that Society. Section 3 provides alRo that to meet that. I do no think the fears of only an officer of the Queensland Society for the hon. member for Bundaberg are well the Prevention of Cruelty can lay any infor founded. mation for a prosecution. However, the Mr. Walslt: The police officer is not pro organisation's name has been changed by tected under the Workers' Compensation Act. having the word "Royal" prefixed to it. The Societv briefed a barrister to take Mr. CONNOLL Y: As a police officer he action in a case in which it decided to would have no claim for compensation in prosecute, but the barrister ac1vised it that respect of an accident in the course of his in his opinion it would be dangerous to employment by another person. proceed until the definition of the word 1Ur. ~Iann: If he was working as a ''officer'' in section 3 was amended to mean labourer for some other employer, that an officer of the Royal Queensland Society employer would be liable for compensation. for the Prevention of Cruelty. T'he Bill is introduced to give the Society lUr. CONNOLLY: The hon. member is correct, and it would be the obligation of the opportunity to proceed with prosecutions as it desires. the temporary employer to effect the neces sary insurance. I do not think there are Motion (Mr. Morris) agreed to. grounds for fear there. COMMITTEE. It was said that it was only because of the long periods of suspension that this Bill (The Chairman of Committees. Mr. Taylor, became necessary; it is a humane gesture Clayfield, in the chair.) whether the suspension is three months or a Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. year. Bill reported, without amendment. Folk1Ying the passage of the Bill, as soon as an officer is suspended the Commissioner COAL AND OIL SHALE MINE WORKERS will be able to say to him, "You have my (PENSIONS) ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. permission to engage in outside employ ment.'' I point out, too, that that may INITIATION IN COMMITTEE, effect some saving to the State. I do not know what attitude the Commissioner or the (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, Minister will adopt, but surely, when the Clayfield, in the chair.) matter of payment for the period of suspen Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani-Minister for sion came up, no-one could object to the Development, Mines, and Main Roads) (2.38 officer's earnings during that period being p.m.) : I move- taken into consideration and only the '' That it is desirable that a Bill be intro difference made up. I commend the BilL duced to amend the Coal and Oil Shale Hon. K. J. lliORRIS (Mount Coot-tha Mine Workers (Pensions) Acts, 1941 to Minister for Labour and Industry) (2.31 1955, in certain particulars.'' p.m.), in reply: I thank hon. members for This is a very simple Bill, designed to make their approval of the Bill. The comments increases in miners' pensions automatic with of the hon. member for Bundaberg have been Commonwealth age pension increases. It has answered adequately by the hon. member for two purposes:-(1) to give the recipients of Kurilpa. As most of the other remarks miners' pensions a benefit equal to the cur dealt with purely administrative matters, no rently advertised increase in the Common further elaboration is required from me. wealth age pensions, and (2) to ensure similar Motion (Mr. Morris) agreed to. benefits on the occasion of subsequent increases in the Commonwealth rate, thus COMMITTEE. obviating the necessity for frequent amend ments of the Act relating to miners' pensions (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, rates. Clayfield, in the chair.) The Commonwealth Government have intro Clauses 1 and 2, as read, agreed to. duced legislation to increase social services Bill reported, without amendment. pensions by 7s. 6d. a week thereby raising age pensions from the present level of £4 ANIMALS PROTECTION ACTS a week to £4 7s. 6d., payable from the first AMEJ\TDMENT BILL. regular pay-day following Royal Assent. The current weekly rates for miners' pensions SECOND READING. are: Hon. K. J. lUORRIS (Mount Coot-tha £ s. d. Minister for Labour and Industry) (2.33 Single mine worker .. 5 2 6 p.m.): I move- Married mine worker .. 9 10 0 '' That the Bill be now read a second Widow or female dependant 4 12 6 time.'' Nursing assistant 4 0 0 Goal and Oil Shale [29 OCTOBER.) Mine Workers, &c., Bill. 683
In addition, 15s. a week is allowed for each introduced the amending legislation, J?articu dependent child but this rate will not be larly bearing in mind the many commrtments altered by the Bill. he had to fulfil between then and now. He Miner pensioners fall into two broad promised to introduce legislation as early as groups, namely- possible but he had to visit the N~rth to (a) Those who are not entitled to any fulfil arrangements already made. It ~s ve~y Commonwealth Social Service pleasing to see that he has lost no trme m benefits; and keeping his promise. (b) Those who, by reason of . ~ge, It is the Minister's first Bill and a Bill incapacity or widowhood are ehgrble that will bring a great deal of happiness to for such benefits. people in coal-mining communities in Queens land. In the case of those who are eligible for Social Service benefits the actual amount The Coal and Shale Mineworkers' Pension payable from the Miners' Pension Fu?-d i~ Tribunal came into existence on 5 January, the difference only between the mmers 1942. Its establishment was by no means pension rate . and ~he Con:monwealth rate. an easy task. On the contrary, it entailed Accordingly rf sacral servrce benefits were long and careful planning, hard -york ~nd increased by 7s. 6d. a week without an considerable sacrifice by the Australian mme increase in the miners' pension rates there workers and their families. A number of would be no benefit from the Commonwealth approaches were made by the representatives increase to those miner pensioners who are of the mine-workers to the various State also eligible for Social Service payments Governments of the day, but without avail. the Commonwealth increase would merely be Every constitutional avenue was explored in offset by a similar reduction in the amounts an attempt to convince tlwse in authority that of miners' pensions payable to such persons. the mine-workers' pension was justified, that This would affect more than half of the the granting of pensions to mine-workers recipients of miners' pensions. throughout Australia was economically poss ible and socially necessary. The agitation for In view of this position the amending Bill pensions arose from the request of elderly has been designed to provide for the auto miners, particularly in the northern districts matic increase of miners' pension rates con of New South Wales. sistent with increases from time to time in Commonwealth age pension rates. Unemployment had reached alarming The immediate result of the amendments heights on all coalfields, particularly in New will be the increase of miners' pensions South Wales. Many strong, able-bodied weekly rates as follows- youths who had grown up on the coalfields had never had the opportunity of engaging Single Mine Worker- in any industry. The miners decided to From £5 2s. 6d. to £5 10s. formulate a scheme to make provision for Married Mine Worker- their automatic retirement from the ind.ustry From £9 10s. to £10 5s. so that the young men could obtain employ Widow or Female Dependent- ment. New members in the Chamber might From £4 12s. 6d. to £5 ask why the old men did not retire volun Nursing Assistant- tarily and make way for their own sons. The From £4 to £4 7 s. 6d. answer is because the retirement of a father T·he actuarial position has been considered would not have provided employment for any and advice has been received to the effect of his unemployed sons because there were that the immediate increases will not necessi hundreds of experienced mine-workers out of employment, and they would have to be tate any change in contribu~ions for the remainder of the current financral year. The employed before any new labour was actuary has pointed out, however, that there engaged. In many cases the father was the only member of the family appea.rs to be a reasonable likeliho~d th.at investigations early in 1958 may reqmre hrm working although he may have two, to recommend some increase in the present three, four or five able-bodied sons who contributions. were anxious and eager to work. After long negotiations and many conferences between It is a very simple Bill, designed to make representatives of the mining unions, the automatic adjustments when there are rises Government of the day and the proprietors, in the age pension. no progress was made towards the granting of the pension. The Governments said that lUr. DONALD (Bremer) (2.43 p.m.): I congratulate the Minister on his appointment the granting of the pension would place a to Cabinet mnk, particularly on being dangerous liability on the economy of the allotted the important portfolio of Minister Crown and would bring about the collapse of for Development, Mines, and Main Roads. industry, and many more workers would be thrown out of employment, and the position On behalf of the Miners' Federation, I sin on the coalfields would be much worse. That cerely thank him for agreeing to meet the is the same excuse that is made to every officers of my association to discuss the intro request made by the working-class for duction of the Bill. I thank him for the very improved living conditions. As a result courteous way in which he met the deputa of this the mine-workers had to cease tion and the promptness with which he has work to secure what is now accepted by 684 Goal and Oil Shale [ASSEMBLY.] Mine Workers, &c., Bill.
everyone as a reasonable reform and to £15,000, and it has stood at that figure a right that is well within the economic ever since. I suggest if the actuary finds it capacity of the nation and the indus necessary to increase contributions, that the try to pay. The mine-workers through Government contribution should be increased, out Australia from Mt. Mulligan in because after the first six months of the the far north of Queensland to St. Mary 's scheme it has remained stationary. The con in Tasmania, from the eastern coast of tribution by the owners was first fixed at the Australia, that is the southern coalmining rate of 6d. per ton. That was an equitable district of New South Wales, right across the rate, and it was passed onto the public, continent to Collie in West Australia, ceased but certain colliery proprietors in New South work. They had to do that in order to have Wales who were exporting a considerable their claim for the miners' pension scheme amount of coal to Victoria challenged the recognised and granted. Only after two right of the New South Wales Government nationwide stoppages were we able to to levy that amount on coal exported from convince the Governments of Australia and the State. The New South Wales Act had the colliery proprietors that what we were to be amended to meet this challenge. seeking was justified. Experience has shown Their rate was fixed at two and a once again that strike action was JUstified and half times the employee's contribution. that what we were asking for was something The Queensland Government very wisely very reasonable. amended the Act in this State to protect the Since its introduction in January, 1942, scheme and to prevent any proprietors in there has been a number of improvements by Queensland from taking the same action. legislative enactment which have been all to Some of them, particularly the Oallide people, the good. Today everyone directly employed could have objected to the payment on export in the coal-mining industry is covered by this coal. scheme provided he or she commenced to work The employer's contribution has been in the industry before reaching his or her increased from two and a half times to four 50th birthday. That was brought about as a and a half times the contribution due and result of a request by the Miners Union to payable by the mine worker. The original the Labour Government because it was found scheme provided for a payment of 2s. 6d. that people were taking advantage of the a week by the mine worker, but the contribu liberal miners' pension to go into the industry tion was increased progressively to 6s. 6d. just prior to their 59th birthday a week. Three or four years ago it was and work 300 days in the year, pay one reduced to 6s., and has remained at that year's contribution and then retire on figure since. An important provision of the a full pension. The Miners Federation asked Act, it must be remembered by hon. members, the Government to amend the legislation to is the one that states that neither the mine ensure that anyone entering the industry worker nor the employer has to make a con after 40 would not qualify as a mine-worker. tribution if the mine worker is absent from The Government refused our request. They work because of accident or sickness for one said they would draft legislation to provide whole week or more. If he works one day a that no-one entering the ind,ustry after 50 week, the mine worker has to pay his con should qualify as a mine-worker. I must tribution, as has his employer. say that I favoured the age of 40 and not 50, I shall later quote the balance sheet of but experience has shown that the Minister the fund. I agree with the actuary that at and the Government were justified, that we the present time there is no need to increase the members of the Miners Federation were the contributions. of any of the three parties. wrong in that respect. Our desire was to protect the scheme for those who had served In Queensland 15s. a week is paid for each a lifetime in the industry and were entitled dependent child. As far as I know this is to the benefits of it. I think hon. members the only State in which it operates. In New will agree that those who enter the industry a South Wales, payment is made only for the few days before their fifty-ninth birthday and first child. work six days a week and holidays in order On retirement a mine worker receives the to qualify for 300 days in the one year should full mine worker's pension, even if compensa not be entitled to the benefits of the scheme. tion payments are payable after his retire It had: to be protected against those persons. ment. I feel I must mention this because An employee has not to be employed in or there has been considerable improvement in around the colliery, as was formerly the posi this part of the Act since 1942. When a mine tion, in order to participate in the scheme. worker or a widow of a mine worker was The elerk in the office of the company in the receiving compensation, under the original Act city is now covered, as are the managers, he or she had to exhaust that compensation at the tradesmen, and in some cases the super the miner's pension rate, that is, if compensa intendents. People who opposed us when tion of £1,000 was payable, b!lfore the mine the miners sought this reform are now enjoy worker could receive a penny from the miner's ing the benefits of it, and miners do not pension fund that £1,000 had to be exhausted regret that. at the miner's pension rate, which was £2 a week. That section was amended ultimately The Government's contribution for the first so that compensation could be exhausted at six months of the scheme was at the rate of compensation rates of payment, which, of £13,000 per annum. After that, it was raised course, were higher than the payment from Goal and Oil Shale [29 OCTOBER.) Mine WorkerB, &c., Bill. 685
the miners' pension tribunal. In consequence, operative and we substituted at a subsequent the widow or injured mine worker, receives date an amendment which tied the pension the pension payment in quicker time. to the Commonwealth Social Service pensions. The Commonwealth pensioner did not receive The Act was further amended to provide a rise while this provision was in the Act that the mine worker or widow can receive whereas the miner pensioners in New South compensation and full miner's pension Wales received a pension rise. The too. The rate of payment from the miner's Queensland Government had to wait until pension is not in any way affected by the war the following August to bring down amend or service pension, both pensions being paid ing legislation. They did not feel inclined to in full. The statement for the year ended make it retrospective and so the miner 30 June, 1956, tabled by the Minister reveals pensioners in Queensland were deprived of that 1,567 pension applications have been almost 12 months' increase that their allowed since the inception of the scheme. fellow workers in New South Wales had At that date, 1,052 actual payments were received. being made and such payments were covering a total of 1, 702 beneficiaries including pen I feel, at least, that that will not happen sioner dependants. Another pleasing feature again for the Minister has assured us that of the table is that the accumulated surplus should there be no increase in the Common in the Miners' Pension Fund has reached wealth pensions and we feel our pensions £1,020,976 and the last balance sheet reveals should be increased he will hear us on the an even better position. matter. I know that he will keep his word. Reports coming to me indicate that It is important for hon. members to note the Minister is doing a splendid job in his that should our provision for increases present portfolio. I think that if I represent coincide with the Commonwealth age, invalid a body of men to whom he is giving service and widows' pension increase it will prevent it is my duty publicly to acknowledge it. If unneces·sary distress to our pensioners and a the pension in any other State is increased, tremendous amount of work in the tribunal the Minister has assured us that if we can office by the necessary adjustment in our pen justify an increase in this State he will give sion payments following the Commonwealth it every consideration. pension increase. A feature of the Coal and Oil Shale Mine Workers' Pensions Fund in Queensland is In introducing the Bill the Minister explained what it would mean. Every time that it must be actuarily sound. To ensure that we followed the Commonwealth age, invalid that is so, the actuary makes a thorough and widows' pensions the old people have examination of the scheme every three years been worried because they felt that they were and the annual estimates are based on his getting a reduction whereas in point of fact advice. they were getting the same rate of payment. I intend to quote from last year's balance A great deal of work will be obviated in sheet of the fund, which was tabled by a the office of Mr. Biggers. A miner pensioner Minister. I do so not so much to show the and his wife both receiving the Commonwealth fund's healthy position but to prove just minN 's pension receive £8 a week from the how wisely and efficiently it has been adminis Commonwealth and £1 10s. a week from the tered since its inception in 1942. fund. If this amending legislation does not receive the approval of the House the miner's The Fund's income for the year ended tribunal rate will be reduced from 30s. to 30 June, 1957, was- 15s. and the miner and his family will receive £ s. d. £ s. d no benefit from the increase granted by the Contributions from the Commonwealth. That was explained by the Treasurer .. 15,000 0 0 Minister. The weekly payment will be £8 15s. Mine Workers' Contri- from the Commonwealth and 15s. from the butions 53,950 16 0 miners' pension tribunal but with the passing Owners' Contributions 242,959 18 6 of this legislation the rate will be £8 15s. ----- 311,910 14 6 from the Commonwealth and £1 10s. from Interest from Invest the miners' pension tribunal, making £10 5s., ments- Commonwealth In· and preserving the margin between the two scribed Stock 13,358 2 6 pensions. Southern Electric Authority In- I claim that miner pensioners are as much scribed Stock 1,278 4 0 entitled to preserve the margin as are trades State Electricity men or other workers. It was something we Coni mission 29,286 14 7 attempted to do in this State; to some extent Brisbane and South we achieved something. Under the original Coast Hospitals Act pension payments were tied to the basic Board 504 3 4 wage. If there was a rise in the basic wage Queensland Coal Board 137 10 there would be a corresponding rise in the 0 Commonwealth miners' pension. I really feel that that is Savings Bank .. 283 12 7 the best method and the one that should have ---- 44,848 7 0 been followed. For some reason that disappeared quickly after the Act became 356,759 6 686 Coal and Oil Shale [ASSEMBLY.] Mine Workers, &c., Bill.
The :fund's expenditure :for the same year It was bec·ause of the personal knowledge was- of Mr. Gledson and Mr. Binnie that many £ ~. d. £ .. d. received miners' pension payments. Records Pensions 216,772 9 6 showing continuity and length of service Fees, salaries and inci~ in the industry were destroyed when the dentals 6,155 1 4 pits closed or otherwise went out Printing and stationery 1,784 5 7 Postage 781 1 0 of existence, and because those men had Stamp duty 236 5 10 worked with the miners at some time or ----- 8,956 13 g other they could substantiate their claims Depreciation 30 6 g and so overcome many of the difficulties that Provisions for Reserves 120,000 0 0 were experienced by tribunals in other Balance to Pensions States. Too great a tribute could not be Fund 10,999 11 6 paid the original members of the tribunal. \Vith Mr. Biggers they have formed a team 356,759 1 6 of which thf' State can be justly proud. It is recognised throughout the coalfields of The excess of contributions over pensions Queensland that every daim made on the payments was £95,138 5s., and administration fund is conscientiously examined ancl excel expenses less depreciation totalled lent service is given by Mr. Biggers ancl his £8,956 13s. 9d. When that is compared with assistant, Mr. J. Costello. As I played some the income from investments of £44,848 7s., part in the original agitation for pensions I it affords a striking tribute to the efficiency feel it my duty once again to pay tribute to of Mr. Biggers and his staff. them for what they have clone since the inauguration of the fund. The liabilities of the fund are- £ 8. d. £ s. d. The Bill should have the wholehearted sup Pensions Fund Reserve port of every member of the Committee. account balance To a man the Opposition will support the 1 July, Hl56 790 0 0 Addition 1956-1957 .. 120 0 0 Government in legislation of this kind. I 910 0 0 thank the Minister :for his courtesy and promptness in meeting our request and I wish Income and expenditure ac·count- the Bill a very speedy passage. £ 8. d. Balance 1 July, 1956 230,976 3 4 Jir. ROBERTS (Whitsunday) (3.7 Addition 1956- p.m.): I compliment the Minister on the 1947 10,999 11 6 speed with which he has introduced the Bill 241,975 14 10 ancl I thank the hon. member for Bremer for ·Accrued pensions 2,473 5 6 his remarks about him. a short time ago. I know that the hon. member is very con I am sure it will interest hon. members versant with the facts. He reminded me of to know how wisely the Fund's moneys are an occasion about six or seven years ago invested and how conscientiously Mr. Biggers when we hacl trouble ancl I moved an a"llend and his staff are conserving them. These ment in the Chamber to make increases are the Fund's investments- retrospective. The period covered many months. I was unsuccessful; the Govern £ 8. d. Commonwealth Stock 410,000 0 0 ment of the clay rejected the amendment. Southern Electric Authority Ins- Though they improved in later years due to scribed stock 32,000 0 0 considerable pressure, it is still refreshing State Electricity Commission 640,000 0 0 to see the new Government dealing with the Brisbane and South Coast Hospitals matter so expeditiously. Board 20,000 0 0 Queensland Coal Board 15,000 0 0 Hon. members know how all pensioners are 1,117,200 0 0 placed, whether miners' pensioners or social service pensioners. Their lot in life gener Cash and stamps on hand .. 45 0 0 ally is not very good and it is up to all Commonwealth Savings Bank 14,858 1 1 sections of the community ancl to all in Parliament to do what they can to improve it. In addition to showing the soundness of the fund, those figures reflect very great Another pleasing featme of the speech of credit on Mr. Biggers ancl his staff and the the hon. member for Bremer was his refer present members of the tribunal. The ence to the actuarial soundness of the fund_ original members laid a solid foundation and Some seven or eight years ago it was said displayed excellent managing ability. Their in the Chamber that the fund was not efforts played a very great part in the actuarially sound but, within a few months, successful functioning of the .tribunal in after considerable debate, it was shown to Queensland. The late Dave Gledson, the be very sound, as I hacl said. late Mr. W. Binnie, who was thP first owners' I have not given the matter recent thought, representative, and Albert Phillips, the first though I have previously mentioned it in the miners' representative, had a profound Chamber, but I ask the Minister to eonsicler knowledge not only of the industry but also at some time in the near :future the effect of the men working in it. of workers' compensation on miners> Goal and Oil Shale (29 OCTOBER.) Mine Workers, &c., Bill. 687
pensions. About three years ago a tragic I heard, the hon. member for Whitsunday disaster occurred at Collinsville. I said in endeavour to get reflected glory from the the Chamber that dependants were not advantage of the Bill. I remind him that getting pensions under the Coal and Oil Shale had it not been for Labour Governments in Mine Workers' Pension Scheme because they New South Wales and Queensland I doubt, had received a certain amount by way of despite the struggles of the Miners' Union, if workers' compensation. The Insurance Com there would be a miners' pension scheme in missioner allows a certain amount of money Australia today. to a widow and the balance is paid to the children over a period. Under these cir lUr. Gair: Members now on the Govern cumstances a widow normally is not left with ment benches were opposed to it. very much actual cash, particularly if she ~Ir. DAVIES: I shall proceed when the has a home to pay off or intends to try to noisy interruption of the hon. member for make a home. As things stand at the South Brisbane ceases. The member for moment, until they have more or less used Bremer emphasised that national stoppages up the equivalent of the pension at so-much had to take place in order to convince a week they do not become eligible for the various authorities of the need for the coal and oil shale mine-workers' pension, pension scheme. At the time the Govern They are eligible for the ordinary widows' ment in New South Wales was a Country pension, in fact I completed the papers for Liberal Party Government. Fortunately, at some of them. the time of the second national stoppage, I was very sorry to read in the Press that there was a change of government in New Mt. Mulligan mine would be closing down. South Wales; a new Labour Government, led Unfortunately, it appears to have been hy Mr. McKell. It was decided that New inevitable. Although there has been reason South Wales, being the major coal-producing able coal production there is not a sufficent Rtate, should have the honour of introducing market for the fine coal produced. If the the first Bill. I do not wish to go over the previous Government had looked to the ground already covered by other hon. future we would have had markets for that members, particularly the hon. member for coal and every other coal produced in the Bremer, but I would like to refer to the State. points put forward by this Commission fol lowing its investigations into The coal industry. I spoke at considerable length in the They were sound grounds for the introduc Chamber about the possibilities of hydro tion of this legislation in this State in 1941, genation of coal. Although we are not which came into effect in 1942. The Com greatly over-producing coal in Queensland, mission said that it would be an incentive to miners have been displaced in c-ertain areas the miners and it would be generally in the because of the lack of coal orders. With interests of all parties, that it would reduce hydro-electrir pro.iects and the number of hardship and lead to greater security and diesels replacing coal-burning engines, it is greater contentment in industry. After the not surprising that coal orders have fallen legislation was introduced in New South off slightly. New industries coming into the Wales it was introduced in Queensland. The State may be able to increase coal consump Act has been amended in this State several tion. However, the clanger is still there, and times. The differences between our Act and it will persist. It is very evident in New the New South Wales Act were outlined by South Wales at the present time. I ask the hon. member for Bremer. In Queensland the Government to give serious consideration 15s. is payable for each dependent child but at the earliest opportunity to the hydro in New South Wales the payment is only genation of coal. Millions of pounds have made for the first child. 'rhe recent amend been spent throughout the length and ment in this State raised the allowable earn breadth of Australia to find oil. Oil may or ings from £2 10s. to £5 10s. a week, which is may not be found. From tests made over a big advantage to the pensioners. The very many years we know that there is an £5 10s. average is calculated on an annual abundance of coal throughout Australia, par basis whereas previously it was calculated ticularly in Queensland. We know how on a weekly basis. urgent is the need for oil, particularly for defence. If we are to look to the future, if The enforced retirement of miners is an we are to keep men in the coal industry, if aspect that should be carefully examined. At we are to maintain full employment gener" present there is some industrial trouble in ally, and plan for defence, we must give the field. I shall not mention it at length very serious consiclera tion to the hydrogena because it has been referred to Mr. Murray tion of coal. It is not only the coal-miners and Mr. Gallagher for interpretation. I hope who will benefit but also the hundreds of that will overcome the trouble. A man at other industries that will be affected. I Burrum has worked 31 years for the company. reserve any further comments. I again com Some years ago the mine at which he worked pliment the Minister on bringing down this was closed and he was transferred to another legislation so promptly. mine operated by the company. In dismiss ing men the company applies the rule of last ~Ir. DAVIES (Maryborough) (3.15 p.m.): on first off from each mine. Owing to As the hon. member for Bremer has covered shortage of orders, it is claimed, men most of the points I did not i~tencl to rise till have to be dismissed and under that 688 Goal and Oil Shale [ASBEMBLY.] Mine Workers, &:c., Bill. rule this man is one of those dismissed. If € The hon. member for Fortitude Valley has less than three years to go to reach 6() accused the workers of working to a darg. I years and therefore even if he gets a jo 1:J resent that. I challenge him to prove where for the remainder of the time he will still get the darg system operates. I can assure him his pension if he does not leave Queens that the miners do not have a darg system. land, as he has served 20 years in the They do their best for the money they get. industry, but take the case of a man 54 or No worker in any part of the world gives 55 years of age with five years to go. If a better return of labour than the workers Le wDTked for more than three years i:n of Queensland. The hon. member places a another job he would forgo all pension rights. stigma not only on the workers in Fortitude That is a hardship, particularly as he is Valley, but on all other workers in the State. dismissed through no fault of his own, say, He opened his remarks with an attack upon the closing down of a mine. He must looll: a section of the community-because for another job. The Act should be amended of that the rest of his speech was to include protection of pension rights for rank hypocrisy. I can tell him of such an employee if he keeps up his payments many industries and many people, not to the fund. It does not seem right that a workers, who operated the darg during the man who has been employed for more tha:n war to avoid income tax. I express my 20 years should lose the right to a pension. resentment at his savage attack upon good solid workers of this State. During the The possibility of an increase in the contri time they were in Opposition the present bution by miners next year has been men Government created a division in society by tioned. I hope that it will not be done with always claiming that the farmers were the out a thorough investigation of the position. salt of the earth, the only people worthy of llir. Evans: That is a matter for the consideration. actuary. The CHAIRlUAN: Order! I am afraid 1\Ir. DAVIES: In view of the sound the hon. member is getting away from the position of the fund the miners would expeet Bill. an increase in pension payments rather tha:n in contributions. The contemplated increase lllr. DAVIES: I resent the attack by the in payments in New South Wales from 6s. hon. member. I hope every hon. member of to Ss. is being considered because this Chamber will take the opportunity of of the acute position of that fund, going underground to see the miners hut the Queensland fund is very sound, at work. I have been underground und I compliment not only Mr. Biggers who in every mine in my electorate. I is in charge of the tribunal but also the go down the mines regularly and I know Coal Board on their wise and sound admini the dangerous and hazardous nature of the stration over a number of years. I hope the work. The miners are not working accord Government will not be swayed by the poss ing to a darg; they are doing an honest ible increase in miners' contributions in New day's work. Whilst hon. members opposite South Wales. placed the farmer on a pinnacle it is well Another pleasing feature of the Bill is the for us to remember that every man doing increase in payment for nursing assistanee an hone9t day's work in the community is from £4 to £4 7s. 6d. An aged miner is fre just as important as any other man. quently unable to look after himself. This payment enables him to obtain assistance. I hope the Minister will give considera It is a pity that similar provisions are not tion to my point about defects in the pen included in other Social Service legislation. sions scheme. I am sure the Miners Federa tion will be placing the matter before him Mine-owners contributions are four and and I hope he will see his way clear to make a-half times those of miners, that is, 27s. the necessary amendments so that men will compared with 6s., but the contribution by not have to forgo full pension rights if they owners is included in the fixed price for coal, lose their jobs through no fault of their and is passed on to the consumers of gas, own. electricity and coal. The owner has no cause for complaint in that direction. The miner makes a distinct payment out of his wages Hon. E. EVANS (Mirani-Minister for nnd a real contribution towards the pensions Development, Mines, and Main Roads) fund. I am pleased that the Bill has come ( 3.30 p.m.) : I thank hon. members for the forward. Miners generally regard it as their way they have received the Bill. I also thank right. If it had not come forward they would the hon. member for Bremer for his com have felt that they were being denied some plimentary remarks. When the union and the thing to which they were justly entitled. I hon. member for Bremer approached me they understand that in future such increases were very courteous. Having been a worker will be made automatically. · for many years, I saw the merits of their submissions. Prior to that the hon. member I am pleased to have the opportunity of for Whitsunday had discussed the matter expressing the appreciation of the miners of with me, and I had no hesitation in saying the Burrum field towards this legislation and that I would suggest to the Government that the pension scheme in general. his recommendations be agreed to. University of Queensland Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 68!?
I was very pleased to hear the expressions the hon. member for Conclamine in the closing of appreciation of Mr. Biggers and his staff. stages of the debate last week. He told us Although I have been in charge of the Depart that it would not have been possible for any ment of Mines for only a short time, l have hon. member to know 'whether he was or was. found Mr. Biggers and his staff very efficient. not in favour of the appeal provisions in the I am quite sure that any matter left to them Bill. Have you ever heard anything like that,. will be in capable hands. Mr. Taylor~ The Minister for Education ·workers' Compensation and various aspects introduced the Bill; it was taken through the of the miners' pensions were mentioned by committee of the Parliamentary Labour the hon. member for Whitsunday. I will refer Party ancl through a Caucus meeting and then his remarks to Mr. Biggers and get him to introduced by the hon. member for Concla ask the actuary to make a submission to me. mine before he was packed off to the country so the Premier could take it over from him. On the hydrogenation of coal, I haYe Then he stood in the Chamber and told us it instructed the Coal Board to get information would not have been possible for any hon .. from various countries in the world where member to know whether he was or was not the process is used, and to submit it to me in favour of it. It was a complete vindica with a recommendation on whether we should tion of my allegation that he, the former consider it. From what I have read on the Minister for Education, was neYer at any process, it seems that some people favour it stage in favour of the Bill. If he had been whilst others do not. in favour of it, surely he would have indi I thank the union for their co-operation cated it to Caucus and in this Chamber mom with me in the closing of Mt. Mulligan. successfully than he clicl! Something had to be done about it, and both the union and the people of Mt. Mulligan When the debate was adjourned I was say have been very co-operatiYe in arranging to ing that the former Premier led us to believe, transfer to Collinsville. I am sure that con when the matter was being discussed in tinuity of work will be available there. Caucus, that there was widespread discontent among the staff of the University about The hon. member for Maryborough cam appointments, something more than thC" mended the proposal on the one hand, and normal disappointment at missing out on a condemned it on the other. I listened very position. I expected-and I saicl it at the ~arefully to the speech of the hon. member for time-that the Staff Association would not Fortitude Valley, and I am quite sure that be in favour of the proposed appeal provision he did not attack the workers. It was the but the hon. member for South Brisbane was. union bosses that he attacked. Like many so em ph a tic in his claims that there was of us on this side of the Chamber, the hon. such widespread discontent, that there were· member for Fortitude Valley worked his way so many cases of injustice ancl that there up from the bottom. was a small clique running the Senate of the The Fund is very sound actuarially, and University, that we were led to believe that I sincerely hope that contributions will not possibly it was necessary to make provision. have to be increased to keep it sound. I for an appeal board even though .L person have made no provision for a reduction in ally, with, I am sure, other members of pensions. We must look forward, and Caucus, was not particularly in favour of the pensions are increasing rather than manner in which it was proposed to be clone. decreasing. Most membeN of Caucus were swayed that Motion (Mr. Evans) agreed to. way. Resolution reported. Mr. Diplock: The hon. member for South Brisbane was not a member of the com FIRST READING. mittee that brought the appeal clause into Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. the Bill. ·· Evans, read a first time. :3Ir. HANLON: The former Minister's lamentable lack of knowledge of his depart UNIVERSITY m~ QUEENSLAND ACTS ment has been illustrated by the new AMENDMENT BILL (No. 2). Minister, but if he had had his eyes open at the committee meeting, insignificant as INITIATION IN COMMITTEE-RESUMPTION OF I might be, he would have seen I v.as present. DEBATE. l\Ir. Dip lock: I said "The hon. member (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, for South Brisbane.'' What is wrong with Clayfield, in the chair.) your ears~ Debate resumed from 23 October (see p. 619) on Mr. Pizzey 's motion- l\Ir. HANLON: The hon. member for '' That it is desirable that a Bill be South Brisbane was present at the caucus introduced to repeal Sections Twenty-five meeting-I hope. and Thirty-one of the University of l\Ir. Diplock: He was not present at the Queensland Acts Amendment Act of 1957.'' committee meeting. Mr. HANLON (Ithaca) (3.37 p.m.): I :rtir. HANLOX: He was certainly present think I should clraw the attention of hon. in the Chamber when the hon. memb€r for members to a most remarkable statement by Condamine was tactfully away because he did o690 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). not want to handle the Bill. As the debate The CHAIRJUAN: The club legislation proceeded some hon. members began to have has no rela tiori. to the provisions of the Bill. doubts about the wisdom of the decision reached in Caucus. Hon. members of the ~Ir. HANLON: There is an analogy. then Opposition provided certain information The reasons for the insertion of the appeal which was backed up by responsible people at clause in the University Bill and the intro the University who had no axe to grind, duction of the Club legislation were similar. people who could not be considered to be sup It is rather an amazing thing that members porters of the Liberal-Country Party. Hon. of the Q.L.P. who are so anxious to main members of the Parliamentary Labour Party tain these appeal provisions have completely began to think that possibly they had made ignored the claims of State temporary public a wrong decision on the appeal provisions. servants who have been clamouring for the The hon. member for Sherwood asked the right of appeal over the years, notwithstand then Premier whether he would make it a ing the fact that three successive Labour non-party matter. If the hon. member for conventions, 1950, 1953 and 1956 urged that South Brisbane is sincere when he said that a right of appeal should be given to State we could have walked across the Chamber and temporary public servants. If those hon. voted against the appeal clause, why did members were sincere in their desire to he not accept the request of the hon. member give the right of appeal to people at the for Sherwood when he asked him whether he University they would not only extend it to would make it a non-party matter, so that executive positions in the Public Service members could vote according to what they but they would give the right of appeal to believed, not on party loyalties~ temporary public servants. I am not saying that it should be done but that argument JUr. Herbert: That is quite true. has been raised, that people in senior posi tions should be given the right of appeal. They would be in a similar position to the ~fr. HANLON: The hon. member bears general staff at the University. me out that he did make that request at the time. The hon. member for South Brisbane The Australian Labour Party make no eompletely ignored him. Obviously he relied apology for supporting the repeal of the Du the fact that we had agreed in Caucus. He appeal provisions in the Act. As I explained, relied upon party loyalties and the rules of we did place much reliance on information the party which hon. members on the Opposi given to us by the then Premier regarding tion cross benches have so flagrantly broken. the need for introducing the repeal pro visions. I say frankly that the hon. member lU:r. Gair: There was not a voice raised may have been quite sincere in his conviction in protest. that something should be done. He believed there was justification for an appeal board lUr. HANLON: The hon. member for for people who were unjustly dealt with at South Brisbane says that there was not a the University. I repeat, that as the debate Yoice raised in protest. Let hon. members proceeded and we listened to the opinion of read '' Hansard'' and they will see that the people with no axe to grind we were con hon. member for Sout1t Brisbane early in vinced that the widespread discontent which the debate admitted that I opposed the the Premier led us to believe existed was not appeal provisions in Caucus. I am not factual. Now that the Government are suggesting for a moment that the hon. repealing the appeal provisions we are big member for South Brisbane was not enough to recognise the error we made, and sincere in his conviction that there was we support the Bill. an injustice in university appointments. He lUr. RAMSDEN (Merthyr) (3.48 p.m.) : made the error of relying too much on The hon. member for South Brisbane in his information given to him by people who had opening remarks on the introduction of the an axe to grind. That is the whole basis for Bill on the 16th instant said- the appeal clause provtswns. After all the '' I have never been able to understand Staff Association comprises the people' who their opposition-'' are affected. If they genuinely felt that there was any injustice one would. think that meaning us- they would be in favour of the appeal clause. '' -to the provision of this Act that they But, no, apparently the hon. member for now propose to repeal, which gives to South Brisbane relied on information given persons employed by the University of to him by other people. I do not say that he Queensland the right of appeal . . . . '' was not sincere in believing them, but he had If the hon. member is quite sincere, I shall a greater responsibility to inquire further make some effort to clarify our opposition for into the matter than merely to listen to the him. The hon. member, in developing his complaints Of one or two disgruntled people argument, showed clearly he had no reii.l con who had missed out on university appoint ception of the _Eltanding of the U niversi ty in ments. We see the same thing in the Club the scheme of things. He said- legislatiDn. Again he interfered with the '' Some University professors do not freedom of members of licensed clubs want fo be in the same class as teachers or -because a particular friend of his believed public servants or railway men or other he had suffered an injustice. employees of the Government . . • . '' University of Queensland Acts (29 OcTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 691
If the hon. member for South Brisbane had found the traditional freedom of the univer a clear concept of the standing of the sities the greatest obstacle outside the University, if he really appreciated the Christian churreh to the total destruction of special role which the University plays in the democracy. community, if he even slightly understood the We saw in the years preceding the last vocation and function of the University he great war how the forces of totalitarianism would not suggest that University professors as the first steps in destroying democracy should be subject to the same governmental and setting up the dictatorship of State control to which school teachers and public Socialism tried to silence the church and servants or railway men are subject. In then destroyed the freedom of the univer the first place, because of the very nature sities where the academic life blood of the of the work and the vocation of the nation coursed through freedom's veins. University it could not fulfil its function or adequately do its job if it was treated as Whatever the hon. member for South part of the Public Service or in such a Brisbane says, whether he realises it or not manner that it was forced to become sub and whether he desired it or not, the fact is servient to the Government of the day. that the passing of the Act gave to his Government and succeeding Governments the JUr. Foley: Why should it not be subject power to stifle freedom and to pave the way to the principles of appeal, in case someone for the ultimate destrudion of democracy. has a grievance~ Jir. Walsh: What do you mean by I\Ir. RA:~ISDEN: I shall tell the hon. academic freedom~ member why in a moment. The hon. member for South Brisbane shed :;)Ir. Power: You are stumped. crocodile tears when he dealt with the 3Ir. RAIIISDEN: I am not stumped. Government's democratic desire to do away Academic freedom means the freedom to with the right of appeal. His objections teach the truth, not the dictation. of a would be laughable if they were not so Government such as the Russian Government obviously insincere and a forreed attempt to which lays down the social doctrine and the justify his Government's action in passing subjects to be taught at the univm·sities. such a rotten piece of legislation which could not be justified in the hearts or minds The passing of the Act awakened the of free men. people to the danger and caused them to rise against the threat of tyranny. The The legislation which the hon. member for hon. member for South Brisbane claimed South Brisbane calls democratic is in fact that the students who took round the petition one of the most dictatorial laws ever to dis against this iniquitous Act were in fact grace the Statute Book of this State. It blackmailed into doing so. virtually put the appointment appeals of the University tutorial staff and professorial I\Ir. Gair: That is what I was informed. staff into the hands of a Government Some of the students told me that. appointee. It put those people at the mercy of a Government appointee, without any fur :;)Ir. RAMSDEN: He insinuated that the ther appeal from that man. students had to take round this petition. The Minister, when he presented the Bill, I\Ir. Gair: They said it. I did not. said that the Act passed by the Gair Govern :;)Ir. RA:rtiSDEN: He now states that they ment had brought the people closer to the said it, that they had to take it round under University. I agree that that is true. If I the veiled threat that if they did not do so remember correctly it was during the debate the professorial board would viretimise them on the original legislation that a Govern by failing them at the next examination. ment member said to the Opposition, ''Never That statement alone shows the mentality of mind the arguments. We have the numbers.'' the last Government, which could not con Prior to the passing of that Act against all ceive a free people rising against the threat logireal argument and by sheer weight of of tyranny, without imputing improper numbers, the people had little or no actual motives to those who had the temerity as free interest in the University, but that Act citizens to criticise the oppressive actions of which threatened the basic bastion of free a vindictive legislature. I signed that peti clam awakened in them consciousness of the tion when shopping in the V alley one Satur real plaeP and value of the University in the clav morning. I was approached by a Uni community. They were awakened from their vei-sity student and he 1Yas afraid, but he lethargic belief that it could not happen was not afraid of the professorial board. here. Just as the hon. member for South Brisbane :;)fr. Power interjected. said students told him of the fears they had, this student told me the fears he had. His I\Ir. RAlliSDEN: I shall not digress. The fear was of a Government drunk with power facts must be faced. The people of Queens and with such a little mind that they reould land realised after the passing of that Act not appreciate the academic life of the men that that Government were following in the at the University. He spoke as a free citi wake of other dictators such as Hitler, Mus zen violently opposed to the proposed Bill solini and Franco who a decade or more ago because he could see the day when academic 692 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2).
f_reedom would disappear from the Univer right of appeal against the hundreds of sity of Queensland and that the professorial arbitrary decisions made by arrogant board would eventually consist of yes-men Ministers. for a Go-:ernment grown callously indifferent to education and the academic needs of the llir. W alsh: I'll bet your Government do comm;mity-a board of Government yes-men not give them the right of appeal. who m turn would turn out professional men ''brain washed'' with the Socialist drug llir. RAJUSDEN: These decisions in to carry out the Socialistic .concepts of the many cases are important enough to alter Labour Government as instructed and de the .course of the lives of the people affected prived of the brain power necessa;y to ade by them. They are authorised by the Gover quately solve the problems of modern living nor in Council; in other words, the Minister, ~or themselves. They would be, and it was and let us not kid ourselves on that. There mtended that they would be, mere puppets is no right of appeal in such cases, yet this to dance _to the tune the Premier of the day great champion of liberty, this knight in would whistle and he expected to be whistling shining armour, the hon. member for South for a long time. The rising of the people at Brisbane, who suffered the ordinary man to large when their free way of life was be under such disadvantages, asks us to be threatened and which manifested itself in lieve that he was sincere in introducing the presentation of a petition of protest to legislation to grant the right of appeal in His Excellency the Governor wus not an act University appointments. There are literally of a blackmailed people, it was the spon dozens of instances where the right of appeal taneous rising of a free people who had is more necessary than it is at the Univer fought in two world wars to preserve that sity, and in respect of which he could have freedom. It was the rising of free people brought in reforms that would have deserved against the insidious growth of a dictator and won the approval of every member of ship being imposed on them by the executive the Assembly. Government. The complaint has been made that there I ask the hon. member for South Brisbane have been cases where a man who has been a question: if it is true he was only acti quoted as a referee by an applicant for a vated by the very humane act of granting position has been sitting on the Board that the right of appeal to the poor oppressed has made the appointment, and is thus called downtrodden professorial board and othe; upon to make a decision on the right of the employees of the University, why should he applicant to the position under discussion. To say that that is wrong, or immoral, or suddenly get so keen on this right of appeal~ I do not know. He was the Premier of a impracticable is to reveal a lamentable ignor Party which had been in constant office for ance of the responsibilities and functions of nearly 25 years and in all that time he a referee. had to move out to St. Lucia to give the JUr. Gair: Tell me why the retiring oppress_ed worker_s th~re the right of appeal, professor of mathematics was not eo-opted when nght here 111 tlns very House under his to the Committee of Appointment when the nose, he .could have started his reforms to last professor of mathematics was appointed. much better purpose. He claims to be so keen on the right of appeal, but here in lUr. Pizzey: I will use your own argu this very Chamber he suffered every employee ment against you on that point. engaged on duty in Parliament itself who is not employed under the provisions the llir. RAlliSDEN: I point out, that one ~f man, because of his standing in the com Public Service Acts, to be deprived of the munity, his academic pre-eminence, and his very right of appeal he is so solicitous about knowledge of the private life of the applicant, in the case of the University. may be asked by two or three people who are lUr. Gair: You don't know what you are applying for the same position to act as talking about. referee for them. He can conscientiously do this because in his capacity as a referee, he Mr. RAlliSDEN: I do, but I am afraid is not affirming that this or that applicant is the hon. member does not. If he were sin the best man for the job and should be cere about the right of appeal he could have appointed; to it. He is merely acquainting set hi~ own house in order first. Indeed, it the Appointments Board with the fact that :vas his first duty and he flagrantly neglected the persons for whom he is actmg as referee lt. are qualified because of their moral, academic, physical and civic standing, to be Let us look at some of the people who considered for the vacancy. That being so, have been deprived of their right of appeal there can be no logical objection to his sit under the former Government, who in this ting on the Appointments Board to help debate strenuously oppose our amendment to appoint the man most fitted for the position. this vicious Act. The Under Secretaries of I am certain that the Professorial Board and each Government department are appointed the Senate of any university in the free world and there is no right of appeal against those are so devoted to the good name and the appointments. If we take lesst>r people, the high standing of that university that they common man that Labour claims to serve can be trusted to appoint the best man with its tongue in its cheek, they have n~ offering for any vacancy, having at heart the University of Queensland Acts [29 OcTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 693
:best interests of the university that they issue before the split. It was only after the love and serve so conscientiously. So much split became public, and public reaction to for the hon. member for South Brisbane. the so-called innocuous Bill was made mani fest, that the Australian Labour Party Now let me turn my attention to the thought it would be good policy and win votes Leader of the Opposition, who belatedly sup from the Queensland Labour Party if it ports the Government in the amending legis showed a volte face and opposed the Bill as lation. Although I was not a member of violently as it had previously supported it. Parliament at the time, I followed '' Han It is sheer political humbug for the members sard'' very closely when this tyrannical legis of the A.L.P. now to ask the people of Queens lation was introduced. I am open to correc land to believe that they assented to the Bill tion, but nowhere did I read where any mem because their former leader, now the Leader ber of the present official Opposition sup ported the then Opposition in resisting of the Q.L.P., pulled the wool so adroitly over their eyes, eyes so blinded with innocence. the legislation. We heard a few days ago an amazing speech from the hon. member Finally, I reply briefly to the remarks of for North Toowoomba. He joined with the the hon. member for Mundingburra. I believe Government in condemning the previous legis his statements to be so irresponsible as to lation and claimed that he did not oppose it merit only very brief consideration. Indeed in Caucus or Parliament at the time of its I was amazed at the generosity of the Chair introduction because the then Premier, who man of Committees in allowing him to rave was at that time a member of the same party for 22 minutes on all sorts of subjects rang as the hon. member for North Toowoomba, ing from the failure of students to continue had said that the Bill was innocuous, that their studies to the University level, intel it was quite harmless, and that it would do lectual snobbery, and practical jokes of no damage. Although the hon. member for students, to quite insulting remarks on the North Toowoomba was chairman of the lJhysical appearance of the members of the Caucus Committee that considered the Bill University Staff without touching in one before it came before Parliament, he blindly instance on the Bill under discussion and accepted the word of his leader that the Bill the merits or demerits of the appeal clause. was innocuous! Even when public opinion I was surprised that the hon. member made arose in a manner unprecedented in the his little or no contribution to the debate. In tory of Queensland, he apparently still private conversation, he is quite capable of :accepted his leader's assurance that the Bill giving good, sound logical opinions but was innocuous. He certainly made no move whenever he speaks in the Chamber, for some in the Chamber to express the condemnation reason or other best known to himself he that he expressed here a few days ago. often becomes incapable of coherent and logical thought. When the chairman of a Parliamentary Committee can sit in Caucus or at a party Jllr. Gair: He does not read his speeches, committee and blindly accept without ques though. tion the propriety of a Bill, apparently recommended to Caucus for adoption, and 1\'Ir. RAJliSDEN: When I have been in then have the temerity to ask the Chamber this Assembly as long as the hon. member, to believe that he was hoodwinked into domg I will not worry about my notes either. it, either he is guilty of gross negligence of His speech on 16 October was a first-class his duty or is so singularly lacking in intel example of what I am saying. He revealed ligence that he is not fitted to be the Chair himself then by his frequent accusations that man of a committee of such importance. the University was a breeding place for Because I do not oelieve the hon. member to snobbery as being entirely out of touch with be guilty of gross negligence of his duty or the modern life of the University, I agree to be singularly lacking in intelligence, I entirely with the hon. member for Sherwood cannot accept his explanation that he failed who remarked that the speech of the hon. to oppose the introduction of the Bill because member for Mundingburra was the best form he did not fully realise its implications. All of inverted snobbery one could find anywhere. I can say is that his actions in allowing this I shall reserve any further remarks for a disgraceful Bill to get through Caucus in the later stage of the debate. first place and Parliament in the second place show that he was merely following the lUr. CONNOLLY (Kurilpa) (4.8 p.m.): I political philosophy laid down and declared congratulate the Minister on taking another by his former leader, John Duggan, a early step on behalf of the Government to philosophy now so well known to all hon. implement promises made to the people of members and to all electors of the State- Queensland in the recent election campaign. "Either rightly or wrongly, wisely or The Bill is of prime importance in view unwisely, I will blindly follow the master's of the uneasiness and unrest that the pass voice.'' ing of the sections of the Act that it sets The Leader of the Opposition claimed that out to repeal caused among the people of the the repeal of the appeal clause was in John State. During the speech of the hon. mem Duggan 's policy speech. So it was. But let ber for South Brisbane, I interjected that the me remind hon. members of all parties that Act was without precedent in the civilised John Duggan was just as silent as his parlia world. I might have said in the British mentary succe&sor to Party leadership on this Commonwealth. And so it is. Of course, 694 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). that does not deter the hon. member or those the Boards of Reference of the University who were, and are, associated with him. But today. The hon. member for Bundaberg the passing of the appeal provisions made interjected earlier in the debate. He said, the academic world, which is an international "What about the non-academic staff~ Is world, regard the Queensland University as a the principle to be that because the janitor hill-billy university. The reaction to the Act or the gardener want a right of appeal there and to the proYisions that are under notice fore you ruin the academic standing of the was unfavourable throughout the world. I University by giving it to everybody'? am not aware of any place in which it People are constantly pointing out in the excited favourable comment. I am aware of daily Press that Australia is behind in the many places in which it excited derision and race for higher education. Queensland will brought us all into contempt. It must never never get a University capable of keeping be forgotten that the standard of a universi t:y abreast in the race if the Queensland uepends to a large extent on the standard of University gets a bad reputation abroad. We the men who can be persuaded to come to all know that years of occupancy of the it and teach in it. Treasury benches tend to give people a sense The University, above all, cannot be hmn of indifference to criticism. They develop an stringed by principles of seniority, principles exterior like the horn-billed turtle so that which are not unreasonable when choosng even a grenade would not get through. Even a man for the foreman of a gang in the so, when the appeal provisions were intro Brisbane City Council or promoting a fettle!' duced there must have been some hon. mem in the railways. I am not speaking in an:y bers opposite who felt some concern in their derogatory sense of these two vocations where hearts at the storm of public protest. I it is perfectly proper for high regard to be have attended many meetings at the Brisbane paid to seniority. When a man takes up the City Hall. Most hon. members have attended academic life he must resign himself to the political meetings and we know that when clay when he is not the best man in his field. he is speaking the Prime Minister draws a When a senior vacancy occurs he must be full house. But I have never seen such a resigned to being passed over by the more house as was present at the public meeting competent man. If this did not happen the convenecl to discuss the iniquitous provisions high standard of the University would vanish. of the Bill under repeal. With few exceptions all men who teach in It seems to me even those who were the Universities accept that as a principle. The Government of the clay must have been Queensland University on the teaching side appalled when they realised what a homet 's was started by men who gave their lives to nest they had stirred up. Surely if they the Univcl'sity, They have lived long enough had not been completely carried away with to see themselves superseded and passed over self-conceit and an attitude of mind com by younger men without a tithe of their pletely resentful of criticism whether con teaching experience and without any serviee structive or destructive and whether from in the Queensland University. They have within their own party or from outside, they taken it with good grace because they know would have realised that what they were if University promotions are made merely on doing was earning the condemnation not only a seniority basis, the University becomes of the whole academic world in Australia but nothing. I do not propose to name the men of the whole world. There was not a but I am honoured by having the personal university in the Commonwealth that was not friendship of many of them. They accept represented at the public meeting in the City their position with a wry smile because thPy Hall, including the National University at know it is to the ultimate good of the Canberra. Speaking as a member of a University. How could members of an appeal university nobody can reasonably suggest board determne who was the best man to that the staff of the University is predomin occupy a chair at the University? Let us antly drawn from the political party which I suppose that the University needed a pro represent. Universities tend quite largely to fessor of physics. I am using the Professor have on their staffs people of the Left Wing, of Physics merely as an illustration, without the pale pink and the Socialist type of mind. any reference to any particular matter It is their right to be there; it is the right of previously raised. Suppose Professor Oliphant the community to have them there to express applied for the job at the Queensland their point of view. When the academic staffs University but somebody appealed. Are you of the entire Commonwealth condemned the IJOing to have one of the former Government's Bill surely that shou1d have been sufficient to favourite stipendiary magistrates sitting to make the Government pause. Did they o/ They determine whether he should be appointed or did nothing of the sort. Why in the light not~ .Just how ridiculous is it going to be W of that l)ublic opinion clid not the Govern JUr. Wals1I: That is quite unfair. It ment adopt the suggestion that the vote shows that you are not discussing it ration should be made non-party P If there was a ally. strong moral case for the passing of the appeal provisions surely they could have Jir. CONNOLLY: I do not know about relied on their supporters to vote for it. that! The only people qualified to determi~e who is the most suitable appointee to a chair Jir. Gair: The party unanimously sup in the University are the people who act on ported it. University of Queensland Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 695
:ur. CONNOLLY: I do not know about A rumour was current during the election that. I am not questioning the statement that the Gair Government were going to {)f the hon. member for South Brisbane. I introduce legislation to establish a marriage shall refer later to statements of members appeal board, to which a man whose pro -of the Opposition. It does seem to me that posal to a girl is rejected could appeal. I the speech of the hon. member for Ithaca, understand that the board was to com an appeal to this House to treat the A.L.P. prise a stipendiary magistrate as a representa as eonsistent-- tive of the boy and a representative of the girl, and the decision would have to be .lUr. Hanlon: I said we made an error. ae·cepted. I do not know "·hether that is right, but that was the attitude of the previous Government from which we have .CUr. CONNOLLY: I am talking about been suffering for years. the question of consistency. Nobody could be convinced of their consistency. If I }Ir. Lloy of the University of which I am proud to and the University of Queensland: was estab be an insignificant member, all the sacrifices lished by the people of Queensland. That is of the hon. member and hundreds and the core of the whole of the discussions on thousands of other fathers have not been the principles in this Bill. It is not a ques worth making. If one went abroad and was tion of a handful of professors or the aca asked his qualifications and where he got demic staff or the administrative staff or any his degree and he said Queensland, the reply other section, but a question as to how much would be, ''Oh well, we'll see you later; the university owes the people. The Hon. next applicant please." We must keep up W. Kidston said on that occasion- the standard of our University and all sen '' I would have the Senate always remem sible people will support the repeal of those ber that it was the desire of our people provisions which brought the University into that inspired the crowning of our educa discredit. tional system by the establishment of a university, that in very truth the Queens The hon. member for Condamine spoke land University is of the people and I against the Bill and said that he had sup trust that the Senate will never forget that. ported the provisions in the Act at the time it should be for the people.'' of their introduction. I do not know all the history and what took place between the They were very important words, spoken by Q.L.P. and the A.L.P. and I do not know the the Premier in 1909, the Hon. W. Kidston. rights or wrongs of that matter. I do not I am particularly interested in the emphasis know whether the hon. member supported it that has been placed on the importance of entirely or not but he brought it down. I feel professors in the world of education. Why that these provisions under repeal are an un· do we have to accept that when we remember wanted child fathered by the hon. member for the thousands of teachers who are associated South Brisbane without any legitimate excuse, with this State's educational system~ The and the midwife, during the delivery of the greater part of the student life is in the ehild, disliked it so much that she ran away. hands of the teachers in the primary and I compliment the Minister on the speed with secondary schools. It is they who lay the which he has taken steps to implement one of real educational foundation of the future the Government's policy promises. It must be citizens of the State. It is all bunk to say impressive and gratifying to the electors who that a man who continues his education and returned the Government to know that they gets a degree and a fe·w letters after his are losing no time in doing the things they name must be put in a different category promised to do. They are losing no time in from those who give a lifelong service in setting at rest the minds of the people. The educating the boys and girls of the State. broad masses of the people were becoming Those people have to submit to the appeal disturbed at the arrogance of the previous system that is operating in their department. Government. This Bill will do its part to It might be argued that there should be 8et at rest the minds of those who >vere some isolation of a particular section of the greatly perturbed up to 3 August. academic staff, just as there is for under secretaries of departments who are selected ~Ir. WALSH (Bundaberg) ( 4.27 p.m.) : by the Government of the day as adminie; Some remarkable statements have been made trative heads. In making such appointments, from both the official Opposition and mem it is necessary to seek men with outstanding bers of the Government. I am reminded of qualifications. I refer now not so much to some of the observations made by the Premier high educational standards as to a capacity of the clay when the V niversi ty was first to administer a department such as the Edu established in 1909. It is interesting to cation Department, the Treasury Department, record, although it is not noted in this publica the Railway Department, and so on. Simi tion that I have, the long period of time that larly, in the Bill that was brought down the elapsed since thought was first given to the Registrar of the University was regarded as establishment of the University in 1874 when its administrative head and no provision was a commission was appointed. Some of the made for the right of appeal against his persons on that commission are notable for appointment. their interest in education-Sir Charles Lilley, I think it should. be patent to all that not Mr. Douglas, and others. Nothing was done many people were happy with what was going and in 1891 another commission was appointed on at the University. It is all very well for which comprised men of standing in the the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. educational and religious world, amongst them member for Ithaca to assert that one man being Sir Charles Lilley, Sir Samuel Griffith, was responsible for the introduction of the Archbishop Dunn, and Bishop Webber and Bill. They know that is not true; they heard Mr. Rowe who subsequently became Director the matter spoken about in Caucus. That the of Education. The Government took a Senate was not satisfied was clearly indicated long time to make up their mind to estab by the subsequent interview that the late lish a university. I want to read what Chancellor, Dr. Hirschfeld, had with the then Premier Kidston said at the inaugural cere PremieL After that interview, the Senate mony in 1909 when he pointed out the appointed a committee to draw up a formula difference between the newest university in that would overcome the problem that was the Empire, Queensland, and the oldest. He then being discussed. so widely in the Uni said that Oxford was established by a king versity. It is all hooey to suggest that there University of Queensland Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 697 was no evidence of any dissatisfaction. It hon. member for South Brisbane about intimi is established that the then Chancellor inter dation. Here are the words record.ed in viewed the Premier of the day, and that the "Hansard," as I have said. It goes on- Senate appointed a committee to go into the '' There is nothing sinister in the right matter. The Government delayed the pro of appeal. Simply because it is unique clamation of the measure to allow the com does not make it wrong. There has to be mittee to submit its proposals to them. All a iirst for everything. This may be the those facts are true and can be established. iirst university with an Appeal Board associated with appointments. That does I am interested mainly in the somer not make it wrong.'' saults by those hon. members who now comprise the official Opposition. The Later on the hon. member went on to say- attitude of the Queensland Labour Party " Do not take anv notice of this bull 's has been set out very clearly by wool about interfere~ce with ac:1demic free the hon. member for South BriRhane. dom. The Bill will give a right to the Irrespective of what the attitude of the people who have given real service to the official Opposition is, the Queensland Labour university. The Appeal Board will bring a Party section of the Opposition intends to measure of peace and stability to those move amendments to the Bill to preserve the who have given long and efficient service right of appeal in its entirety, and if it cannot to the university. They will feel that succeed because of the combined opposition of they can ventilate their claims. I feel the Government and the official Opposition it that many red herrings have been drawn will seek to move an amendment to give the across the trail. There is no logical con protection of the right of appeal to those nection between academic freedom and the not in any way identified with the academic setting up of an Appeal Board." staff. "vVho is it~", the hon. member asks. It is Let me dispel any doubt hon. members no less a person than the former member might have that these matters were discussed for Mount Gravatt and the Deputy Leader in Caucus and in this Assembly. The leader of the A.L.P., as he was subsequently. Yet of the Opposition has introduced a new prin the Leader of the Opposition had the temerity ciple. If we all avail ourselves of it and to say it was not discussed in the Chamber or in Caucus. As the hon. member for o~tline discussions that have taken place in Caucus on various subjects, I can assure hon. Charters Towers will tell the Committee, members they will be in for some interesting when the hon. member for Mount Gravatt times. At least he has established the prin made a speech in Caucus-and the hon. mem ciple. He outlined to the Committee what ber . for Ithaca must know it-he actually was, to his mind, the trend at the time. nomm~ted the professors or the people inter ested m these applications over a number of years. Let me quote some passages from '' Hans ard.' ' If hon. members would at all times I made the observation, ''A very good speak audibly and give references to passages speech, Felix. If you get up in the House and they quote, it would make the task of the make a similar speech I will come in to listen "Hansard" staff much easier. In Volume to you.'' The Leader of the Opposition was 216 of "Hansard" at pages 1621 and 1622 the chairman of the Committee. With all these remarks appear- his scholastic attainments and all the children he had under him over the years he had been '' I do not know why there is all this a teacher, he is wanting hon. members to discussion and all this antagonism to an accept the statement that he did not under· appeal board. If the hon. member for stand the contents of the Bill, that he did Sherwood is interested enough-and not hear any discussion in Caucus or Com apparently he has taken a lot of interest mittee about the matter. It was established in the Bill-he should take the trouble to by the hon. member for Condamine the other investigate appointments of the university day that the Cabinet proposal was to place it over the years. He will find that many on a union principle, that the Staff Associa of the staff are dissatisfied. It is no use talking about one disgruntled member. tion would have the right to appoint the There are many who feel that they have appellant's representative. It was the hon. been treated unfairly. Here again is the member for Mt. Gravatt at that time, Dr. effectiveness of the speech of the hon. Dittmer, who was so closely associated with member for Mundingburra where he asked the breakaway party and subsequently whether a vote was taken by show of hands became Deputy Leader, who moved the or by secret ballot. Actually it was taken amendment. by a show of hands. One could then sug Mr. Hanlon: He was not a member of gest that the result may have been because the Q.L.P. of intimidation.'' lUr. W ALSH: He was a member of the lUr. Sparkes: Who is this? breakaway party. The position was outlined in Committee and subsequently in Caucus lUr. W ALSH: I will tell the hon. mem yet the Leader of the Opposition says that ber later on who it is. At that point refer the matter was not debated or discussed in ences had been made to the charge by the Caucus. 698 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). I have asked many times for a definition of 110ticed that when the Leader of the Opposi ''academic freedom.'' tion made the statement that this was not discussed in Caucus other members on the .:lir. Sparkes: A lot of fun. front Opposition bench made it clear they .:lir. W ALSH: The hon. member may be were not denying that certain discussion right. I do not know whether he is thinking took place. of Tasmania or what he is thinking of, but he says ''A lot of fun.'' Despite all the lUr. Hanlon: Not fully discussed. brains associated with the Government of to Jir. WALSH: Nobody is denied the day, including the Minister and officers of the privilege of getting up on his feet in Cau~eus. University, there was only one hon. member It is no use trying to put it on the previous who attempted in any way to give a logical Minister. You had the Bill and the right of interpretation of it-the hon. member for appeal is there without any qualification. It Coorparoo. On 27 March, he said- was competent for any member to move an '' The Treasurer asked for a definition amendment just as the hon. member for of academic freedom. I should say that I Mt. Gravatt moved an amendment. It was have partly given an answer. My under competent for the hon. member for Ithaca standing of the term is a building-up and or any other hon. member to move any maintenance of that spirit of constant amendment if he wished to. At least it can search for the newest and the best that is be said that the hon. member for Ithaca available, not narrowly in Queensland or wanted to stick to the principle established more widely in Australia, but throughout by Cabinet in the first place and subse the whole of this civilised world, without quently altered by the amendment moved by national limits, political limits, or religious Dr. Dittmer and accepted by the Committee limits. If that spirit of wide search of which the Leader of the Opposition was throughout the whole world is not present, the chairman. The hon. member for Ithaca we have the ingredients of future did think that the Staff Association was the mediocrity. ' ' body who should appoint tne appellants repre sentative. He asked in Caucus where the At least he made an attempt and I invite hon. members to read the present Treasurer's appellant would be likely to get his repre sentative, which was an important and speech dealing with his interpretation of the pe1·tinent question. Just as the majority definition of academic freedom. They will find it very interesting. should rule in Cabinet decisions, so it is with Caucus. CaUJCus having determined the The Leader of the Opposition persisted in principle that the right of appeal in the using the words ''motive,'' ''motives,'' and case of the academic staff should be ''motivating.'' He continued in that strain different, that provision was accepted by throughout his speech. Like thousands of Cabinet as a majority decision of Caucus. I other people I am anxious at this stage to suppose there would be fewer than 200 on know what is the motive that actuated the the staff or associated with the University Leader of the Opposition and hon. members who would be in the category of academic sitting behind him to do a complete somer staff. I take the figure at 200, but it could sault since March last. They have completely be less. It means that the Government thrown overboard the principle of the right of backed and supported by the so-called Aus appeal for a substantial number of tralian Labour Party, are prepared to throw UniYersity employees. Without any qualifi to the wolves the other 400 engaged in cation whatever the Leader of the Opposition administration work in the various callings 2 ccepted the Bill introduced by the Minister. associated with University activities. As In other words, the A.L.P. has not even far as the Queensland Labour Party is con attempted to preserve any part of the right cerned we are going to sti>ck to our desire of appeal for University employees other to preserve the right of appeal for every than the academic staff. section of the University staff. If we are not successful we intend to test the Govern The hon. member went so far with motive ment and the official Opposition to see whe and motivating that at one stage I almost ther they are prepared to support the appeal felt like sending for Chandra the snake rights for other sections of the University. charmer. Each member of the official Opposition who spoke was endeavouring to The Government in their policy speech said provide an excuse for supporting the Bill something about bringing down a Bill of in the first place. I hate to think that this Rights. How does this Bill line up with a is to be the future policy of the A.L.P. Bill of Rights~ What is it proposed to because there have been some publw include in the Bill of Rights g This Bill deals announcements by Ministers that certain with a simple thing, the right of appeal of other departments are to be taken away a humble citizen of the community. The from the Public Service. Having taken Government, as one of their first important them away they will probably lose their acts, are taking that right from 400 of the privileges and rights under the Public Ser staff, apart altogether from the academic vice Acts. It will be interesting to see the staff. A Government member referred; to lec attitude of the official Opposition-the turers as a lower grade of the academic staff. A.L.P.----,when those administrative acts are Do not let the Minister try to state that that proceeded with by the Government. I position is any more important than the University of Queensland Acts [29 OcTOBER.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). 699 position of principal of a High School and Our attitude will be consistent with the other positions in the field of secondary and principles and the pia tform of the Australian primary education. Those latter persons have Labour Party which raised those men who the responsibility of laying the educational left the party to the positions of eminence foundation. It is idle to try to isolate people they previously enjoyed. because they are in the category of Univer The hon. member for Conclamine showed sity staff. Let us be big enough to concede a great deal of heat in his speech. It is a that we improve as the years go by in mat pity he had not injected a little of that ters of social justice and the protection of enthusiasm into the case when he presented individual persons against those in charge of it to the party and this Chamber. Had he administration. If those persons cannot get shown a little spirit and some relish on that the backing of the anti-Labour Government, occasion we probably might not have found they can at least rest assured that they will ourselves in the position where this com get it from the Queensland Labour Party. It mittee accepts its responsibility of correct is interesting to note that the members of the ing a wrong. The matter can be as simply Australian Labour Party are backing the Government in defeating a principle of such stated as that. vital importance to at least 400 members of The hon. member for Merthyr read out the staff. attacks on us and said that we were lacking in intelligence, but had we taken any other I!Ir. Hanlon: What about the right of step the Government's attack would be as appeal for temporary employees in the Public vicious on ns. It is typical of the tenor Service followed throughout this session and it is to the shame of some members of the Govern 3Ir.• WALSH: We will see what the ment who d:o not like members of the Government do about them and if they can make any h<>adway. There are a lot of pit Q.L.P. any more than we do, that they love falls in all these things. to urge them on and join in with them. I can assure this Co=ittee and the public In the five years prior to the defeat of the that we will face the two-pronged attack pre,·ious Government many industrial reformA and in the end emerge triumphant. It is were granted that were a long way ahead of significant that in the Committee stage the reforms now being sought in other directions. then Premier had to take charge of the (Time expired.) Bill, as he said, owing to the unavoidable absence of the Minister in the country to Jir. WOOD (North Toowoomba-Leader fulfil an important engagement. It is not of the Opposition) (4.53 p.m.); I am sure for me to say whether that engagement was all hon. members must have realised early in important. It could easily haYe been the speech of the hon. member for Muncling important. bnrra that he was far less interested in the Bill and the University staff than he was in ~Ir. Diplock: It was a prior one. scoring against the Australian Labour Party. JUr. WOOD: It could have been an Let me reiterate the statement of the hon. important engagement, but still no more member for Ithaca, that there is nothing important than the piloting of this legisla wrong when a body of men recognises that tion through the House. Am I wrong W It wrong has been clone in their stating that might have been the Chinchilla show. they will help to correct that wrong. That is the attitude of the official Opposition. Mr. Diplock: It was not. Hon. members of the Q.L.P. may talk of 1Ur. WOOD: It was not as important as motives and somersaults but we did not hear the passing of the legislation, ana rightly or from the hon. member for Bnndaberg any wrongly, to quote a familiar phrase, many evidence of sincerity, admiration for the Uni members including some not in the A.L.P., versity, or anything about the conferring of felt that the Premier welcomed the degrees on stud.ents. His speech was nothing oppmtunity because he was more cap::ble of less than an expression of hatred of the Aus infusing some enthusiasm into the B1ll. It tralian Labour Party. That was the keynote was certainly lacking in the hon. member of his ~peech of 25 minutes. He did not give for Condamine. He took exception to a any indication of a desire to work on behalf statement I made when I visited Dalby dur of the students or the staff. It was a mis ing the recent election. I know I would not gui(led attempt to scorp off members of the be allowed to repeat the statement here, but official Opposition. There is no need fm; the I can assure him that if he reminds me of hon. member for Bundaberg to be concerned it I shall at the first opportunity repeat it about the future attitude of the A.L.P. We and stand up to it as being true. do not claim, as was clone by the hon. mem ber for Carnarvon, to be men of destiny. We Mr. Diplock: I will remind you that you like to be true to the party to which we have are a liar. pledged allegiance. I,et me assure the hon. The TElUPORARY CHAIRJUAN (illr. member for Bundaberg and hon. members Nicholson): Order! I ask the hon. generally we can manage quite well without member to withdraw that remark. any concern on his part or the part of mem bers of that breakaway party as to what view ~Ir. Diplock: I withdraw and say he is the official Opposition will take. telling a distinct untruth. 700 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). ~Ir. WOOD: And I remind the hon. The hon. member for Bundaberg said that member of his most amazing somersault at the failure to allow appeal provisions to the Labour-in-Politics convention. I quote remain in the legislation will mean that the a statement I made in Dalby which can be University staff will be thrown to the wolves. substantiated by at least a dozen people. Who are the big, bad wolves that they are to be thrown to~ The hon. member does liir. Diplock: I take exception to that. I not need me to tell him who are the mem voted consistently and openly and the hon. bers of the Senate of the Queensland Uni member knows it. versity. I will name three of them. They ~fr. WOOD: I accept the hon. member's are the leader of the Anglican Church, denial that he voted consistently-consis Archbishop Halse, the leader of the Roman tently against Cabinet on every secret ballot Catholic Church, Archbishop Duhig, and and with Cabinet on every open ballot. His Rev. M. Henderson, a prominent Presbyterian attitude was very consistent! clergyman. Mr. Walsh: How do you knoW' how he lUr. Walsll: Don't be childish. They do voted in the secret ballots~ not make these appointments and you know it. ~Ir. WOOD: If a man pas;;es his ballot paper in front of half a dozen people and li'Ir. PIZZEY: The members of the says, ''Is that the way to spell 'Bukowski '?'' Senate get a detailed short list of the quali anyone knows how he voted. fications and the original publications of the applicants after their number has liir. DIPLOCK: I rise to a point of order. been reduced to about eight or nine. I think my record will show that I can spell Sometimes there are 50 applicants, and as well as the Leader of the Opposition. I the committee that does the original feel sure that I can spell '' Bukowski'' as delving into their qualifications realises that well as he can. I can spell ''rider,'' too. many of them have a hopeless case for appointment. The applicants are reduced to liir. WOOD: I should like to mention what is known as a short list, and before the something that was referred to by the hon. Senate makes its decision a detailed list of member for South Brisbane, that is, the the qualifications of each applicant is seJlt request that Mr. Schmella and iDr. Dittmer be to the members of the Senate. They are the not reappointed as Government representa wolves who are to devour the applicants for tives on the Senate because of their lack of appointment. Do not forget that the mem attendance. The letter reads- bers of the University staff have been at '' It is evident that because of the the mercy of these wolves for almost 40 numerous demands upon your time, you years. It was only when one or two appli are unable to fulfil the Government's cants expressed their disappointment to lead desire in this connection.'' ing members of the Government that any attempt was made to bring in the appeal Dr. Dittmer told me only this week that he provision. attended 80 per !Cent. of the 70 Senate meet ings that were held during his term as a It is obvious from the tone of the remarks representative on the Senate. of the hon. member for Bundaberg that he considers the University to be merely another li'Ir. Gajr: That is not true. Government department. He thinks they merely teach students. I remind him that li'Ir. WOOD: Dr. Dittmer told me that research is a very important part of univer his statement could be used in the Chamber. sity life. In the primary school the main He must be some authority, because he has occupation of the teachers, and the Govern been quoted by other hon. members. He ment, is to see that the pupils are given gave me his permission to say that he had basic education, that is, the essential know attended approximately 80 per cent. of the ledge and skills to equip them to go further Senate meetings, and that that could be in their studies and take their places as compared favourably with the attendance of members of the community. If the University many other members of the Senate. comes under the direction and control of the Government it will be the deathknell of ~Ir. Gair: I can give you the actual figures. academic freedom and that has happened in some countries. li'Ir. WOOD: I am quoting the figure Mr. Walsh: Are you going to alter that was given to me by Dr. Dittmer. their representation~ (Time expired). Mr. PIZZEY: Let the hon. member wait Hon. J, C. A. PIZZEY (Isis-Minister and see whether we will alter the representa for Education) (5.3 p.m.): The greater part tion. We are not altering it in this Bill. of the debate has been taken up with accusa There are many definitions of academic tions and counter accusations by members freedom but it is really a freedom of inquiry of the Australian Labour Party and the and expression. It implies independence of Queensland Labour Party each against the thought and investigation, things funda other. I do not intend to devote any time to mental to scholarship and the advancement discussing their accusations. of knowledge. Merely because a lecturer or University of Queensland Acts [29 OcTOBER.) Amendment Bill (No. 2). 701 professor differs in his views from the Gov Mr. PIZZEY: "Why was not Professor ernment of the day is no reason why he Simonds eo-opted~'' should be prohibited from expressing them. There is no reason why he should not be lUr. Gair: It is the first time in the critical of the Government if he disagrees history of the university that it has not been with them, and there is no reason why done. members of his staff should not be critical of lUr. PIZZEY: I will tell the hon. mem his views. Political freedom and academic ber why. At page 1658 of "Hansard" freedom in the University have provided Volume 216 the hon. member for South the least guarantees for the preservation of Brisbane said- the traditional liberties of western civilisa tion. Let me quote the following statement '' Another peculiar, and I might say on academic freedom by the American Asso unsavoury, feature of the appointment was ciation of Universities- that one of the referees nominated by the successful applicant was also a member of '' Every scholar ... bears a heavy respon the London Committee." sibility to weigh the validity of his opinions and the manner in which they are expressed. Did the hon. member say that~ His effectiveness, both as scholar and Mr. Gair: Yes. I still say it. teacher, is not reduced but enhanced if he has the humility and the wisdom to recog Jllr. PIZZEY: The hon. member says nise the fallibility of his own judgment. that it was an unsavoury feature of the He should remember that he is as much a appointment that one of the referees nomin layman as anyone else in all fields except ated by the successful applicant was also a those in which he has special competence. member of the London Committee. I know Others, both within and without the Univer that the hon. member for South Brisbane sity, are as free to criticise his opinions would know that the unsuccessful applicant as he is free to express them.'' who applied for the position of Professor of Mathematics had a reference from Professor In other words, with academic freedom goes Simonds, with whom and under whom he academic responsibility. We think it is highly worked. If it was an unsavoury feature that desirable that academic freedom should be in the overseas committee there should be a retained but those who wish to retain it man who was one of the referees, would it should be fully aware of their responsibilities not have been just as unsavoury if the Pro and should weigh their opinions very care fessor of Mathematics, with whom this man fully before making any statements. was associated day by day and from whom The ex-Secretary for Public Instruction he had a reference, had been appointed to said in his speech that there were several that Committee~ It is a complete parallel. draft copies and that the original copy con JIIr. Gair: But in previous cases they tained no mention of the appeal provision. had eo-opted the retiring professor. They It is strange that every hon. member agreed departed from it in this instance. with the other provisions of the measure. There was no argument. They thought it lUr. PIZZEY: It depends on who the was a good Bill, and many of the provisions applicants were and whether they had were highly desirable. I should say many references from them. That is not even a of them came about on the recommendation parallel case. The hon. member had some of the University Senate; but it is strange thing to say about John F. Foster as being that the appeal clauses came after the original onP of the committee of three. John F. draft as a sudden afterthought, an insert. Foster was really the secretary of the over seas committee. When applications were Mr. Diplock: You would have more than received from overseas applicants Mr. Foster one draft of the Bill. convened the committee to interview them. ~Ir. PIZZEY: I know, hut we did not ~Ir. Gair: That is all. know before that the appeal provision was not in the mind of the Minister when he pre ~Ir. PIZZEY: All right. Mr. Foster was pared the Bill. It was only when it was not in any position to make a recommenda taken before Cabinet or Caucus, or whatever tion. He was merely the secretary of the it might have been, that some people said, committee comprising professors of th8' ''There seems to be something wrong with I,eeds, London and Cambridge Universities. the appointments at the University.'' The Surely these men are above partisanship in real trouble was mainly over one person. the selection of appointees-not even th8' selection. Mr. Diplock: I never heard his name. Mr. Gair: They are not infallible. Mr. PIZZEY: The hon. member for Mr. PIZZEY: They were concerned only South Brisbane mentioned a special case of in the recommendation of a candidate. They an appointment to the Professorship of did not make a decision. They merely made Mathematics. He also interjected, ''Why a recommendation about overseas candidates. was not Professor Simonds put on the ~ppointment Committee~" As to the man who applied from Brisbane, they merely asked him to submit an origina~ ~fr. Gair: eo-opted. work so that they could make a comparison. '702 University of Queensland Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill (No. 2). Mr. Gair: Our own committee did not University. In other words, the appeal pro go to the trouble of interviewing Australian vision denies the University the opportunity applicants. of getting the most capable man, wherever he mav come from. It is obvious that it is Jlir. PIZZEY: Tl1e hon. member for having a detrimental effect on our University. South Brisbane also said that "None of I think every hon. member will take exception these men has the qualifications to select a to the statement by the hon. member for Professor of Mathematics.'' Who are these South Brisbane that many students took men 1 Professor J ones gained first class round the petition for fear of what might honours in mathematics and the gold medal happen to them. for the year from the Sydney University. The two eo-opted members, Professors Lavery and lUr. Gair: That is what they told me. Webster, were both well qualified for the task ilir. PIZZEY: It was a dastardly state· of selection. Professor Lavery, a Rhodes ment by any hon. member, let alone a former Scholar, is Professor of Civil Engineering, in Cabinet Minister. If hon. members look at which mathematics play an important part. "Hansarcl" p. 515 they will notice that Dr. Professor Webster is a Professor of Physics, Nob le interjected and the hon. member for a subject dependent on a sound knowledge South Brisbane does not say that he was of mathematics. Another man was Mr. Jack repeating what the students told him. This Mulholland who >Vas appointed by the is what the hon. member said- previous Government, I believe. "I repeat that many students here took Mr. Gair: You do not hold that against part in the campaign against the Bill him 7 under duress''- The hon. member does not say he was told Mr. PIZZEY: No. Many good men were appointed. He holds a Masters' degree in that; that was his firm opinion. Science and Engineering and specialises in ]}Ir. Gair: That is the only way I knew. hydraulic engineering, which is based on a sound knowledge of mathematics. Could illr. PIZZEY: He goes on- you have a more qualified committee. '' and out of fear that they might not Mr. Gair: Dr. Simonds would be more get a fair go if they did not do what they qualified. were asked to do by the professors who would be their examiners later in the lUr. PIZZEY: The hon. member said it year.'' would be unsavoury to appoint a man who I do not think any hon. member of the had a reference from one of those applicants. official Opposition and very few of the corner The hon. member for South Brisbane said part;· would agree with such a statement. I that these men have a habit of putting them· did not think I would ever hear such a state selves on the committees. Surely he knows ment by an ex-Premier. that the recommendation committee is .appointed by the Senate invariably on the The official Opposition seems to agree recommendation of the Vice Chancellor, Mr. entirely with the repeal of the appeal pro J. D. Story. Surely he is one man who would visions. Perhaps they were moved by the never be prejudiced or biased in the appoint pitiful stories they were tol.d in ~a~cus. At ment of tliese men for selection. Surely the any rate, they did not realise ongmally the non. member for South Brisbane will not serious implications of the Act. I~ .cannot be denied that under the appeal prov1s10ns of complain of that grand old man of the the Act a disgruntled applicant eoulcl appeal Queensland University, Mr. J. D. Story. I to the Government and the Government could think perhaps the ex-Premier did think there appoint as chairman of the Appeal Board a was some reason for an appeal provision when person whom they knew would be politically he heard these complaints. But the hon. biassed. It may not have happened under the member clicl not go deeply enough into the previous Government, it may not have matter. He let his heart run away with his happened at all, but suppose a J.,eft Wing head. He said there was a great difference Government bv some mischance were returned of opinion in the appointment of the Profes to power. There would be nothing to stop sor of J\fathematics. I believe it was over that Government from stacking the University whelmingly in favour of the man appointed. by means of the Appeal Board with people There was a difference of opinion but there of their own political colour, in other. wo~cls, was a great majority who were satisfied, bringing the University under the clomn:atwn having read the summaries on each of these of their party, and that cannot be demed. men, that the man who got the appointment was the one who thoroughly deserved it. One The Government are not interested in the effect of the recent legislation was felt political views of the Professorial Board or recently when applications were called for a anyone in the University. That is their busi professorship at the University. Hon. ness. Thev are there to search for truth. members might be intereBted to know They must have freedom of inquiry and that when the University recently research, although we expect from them a advertised for a professor for a certain sense of responsibility. We do not certain faculty at the University there was expect them to make wild statements without no application from any other Australian clue consideration. Governor's Pension Bill. [29 OcTOBER.] Royal National, &c., Bill. 703 Having listened to the discussion, I am COMMITTEE. quite satisfied that not only the overwhelming majority of hon. members, but also 99 per (Mr. Nicholson, Murrumba, in the chair.) cent. of the Staff Association, members of Clauses 1 to 5, both inclusive, as reail the Senate and other memhers of the agreed to. University and the overwhelming majority of the people are in favour of a repeal of the Bill reported, without amendment. appeal provisions. Question-That the motion (Mr. Pizzey) ROYAL NATIONAL AGRICULTURAL be agreed to-put; and the Committee AND INDUSTRIAL ASSOCIATION OF divided- QUEENSLAND BILL. AYES, 52. SECOND READING. Mr. Ahearn 11r. Lonergan Anderson Low Hon. G.. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough Baxter Madsen -Premier) (5.37 p.m.): I move- Beardmore M ann Bjelke-Petersen ,, Marsden '' That the Bill be now read a second Burrows , Morris Chalk , Muller time.'' Clark Munro I remind hon. members that the Bill Coburn Nicklin Davies Pizzey ratifies an arrangement made between the Davis Rae Royal National Association and the Brisbane Dufficy Ramsden Evans Richter City Council for the transfer of a very small Gilmore Roberts section of Bowen Park from the Council to Gunn Smith, P. R. the Association. The straightening of the Hanlon Sparkes Harrison Thackeray alignment of the boundaries between the Hart Tooth properties of the two bodies will enable the Heading , \Vallace Royal National Association to construct a Herbert vVatson Hewitt Windsor wood-chopping stadium at less expense and Hiley Wood more advantageously than would have been Hodges Hooper possible if the small piece of land had con Houston tinued to obtrude into the area occupied by , Jones, V. E. Tellers: the Association. In return for the transfer,. Keyatta Mr. Gaven Lloyd Graham the R.N.A. will erect amenities for the staff working in Bowen Park and a storeroom for NOES, 9. use by the Council. The arrangement is Mr. Diplock Mr. Walsh satisfactory to both bodies. Gair Gardner Hi!ton Tellers: Mr. WOOD (North Toowoomba-Leader Jones, A. Mr. Ad air of the Opposition) (5.39 p.m.): When the Power Smith, A. J. Bill was introduced I referred to the small PAIRS. ness of the area-8.9 perches-but pointed out the danger, recognised by the Premier, AYES. NOES. of a trend developing whereby parklands are Dr. Noble Mr. JlfcCathie Mr. Ewan Foley encroached on and further alienation takes place. The Premier in his reply quite frankly Resolved in the affirmative. agreed that that was so and said that the Resolution reported. Government were very mindful of it. It is disturbing, however, to refer to '' Hansar~'' FIRST READING. of 26 years ago when the Act now bemg Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. amended, the Royal National Agricultural Pizzey, read a first time. and Industrial Association of Queensland Act of 1931, was passed by the Moore-Bames Government to see that that danger was recog GOVERNOR'S PENSION BILL. nised even then when the remarkable Section now being amended was inserted. SECOND READING. Section 7 stated- Hon. G. F. R. NWKLIN (Landsborough '' After the passing of this Act no Premier) ( 5.33 p.m.) : I move- approval shall be given to the sale or '' That the Bill be now read a second disposal of any further part or parts of time.'' the land referred to in the Certificate of This is a simple Bill. It authorises the Title as described in the first paragraph payment of a pension to Queensland's of the Preamble to this Act.'' immediate past Governor, Sir John Dudley So that 26 years ago while excising a portion Lavarack, and makes provision for his wife of the land the Government recognised the if he predeceases her. The pension is payable danger of additional encroachment and during his lifetime and will be retrospective placed in the Act a section which provided to the date of his retirement, 1 October. The that never again would there be any further measure received the unanimous support of encroachment, a section not worth the paper hon. members when it was introduced, and I it is written on. Here we are, 26 years later, have nothing more to say on it. making a further excision. I quite agree Motion (Mr. Nicklin) agreed to. that the area is pocket-handkerchief in size 704 Royal National AgriC!Ultural [ASSEMBLY.] and Industrial, &c., Bill. but 26 years ago Parliament recognised the When he opposed the 1931 Bill, to take away need for the declaration that no further land more than two acres from the park, Mr . .should be taken. It is only a small area Hanlon said that the area to be taken that is to be excised from the park but one had been neglected for some time, and had .can recall that a portion was excised from appeared to be deliberately neglected so that this little park named after the first Governor the transfer might take place. That was in in Queensland in 1931 when the Moore 1931. However, before the arrangement Barnes Government were in office. The only had been made, this part of the park had ·difference with the present Government is been every bit as attractive as the rest of it. that the area to be taken is not so large. Mr. Hanlon said that the public had been 'The Moore-Barnes Government took 2 acres treated in a very unfair and very underhand 22 perches for the benefit of the R.N.A., the manner by the R.N.A., the Brisbane City present Government are content with a modest Council, and the Government of the day. Mr. .8.9 perches. When we relate this small Bill Hanlon also said- to deal with 8.9 perches with the previous '' We on this side of the Chamber are Act to excise 2 acres 22 perches we realise up against any more park land being filched the danger ahead, that some Government away from the people. When is this park may take the whole of Bowen Park for stealing going to stop~ The Minister told R.N.A. purposes. Both Governments have us in 1929 that it would only be a matter the same attitude towards the public parks of time when the Royal National Associa and they both demonstrated it in their early tion would take the whole of Bowen Park. ·days of office by slicing off a part of Bowen I would rather see the R.N.A. remove its Park for the benefit of the R.N.A. The grounds elsewhere, than that this park R.N.A. is distinguished for many things but should cease to exist. The park was estab ·certainly not always for its regard for the lished long before the Association came public at large. into existence. ' ' When the Minister for Lands, Hon. W. A. Much more was said. Deacon, initiated the 1931 Bill he said that it was to enable the Brisbane City Council to lUr. Sparkes: Don't you regard the ,sell only a small portion of Bowen Park to R.N.A. area as a park in itselH the R.N.A. He said he could not see how any I non. member could raise any objection as lUr. WOOD: It is near the park that is the R.N.A., the Council and the Town used by the public on 365 days of the year Planners' Association, who had agreed that free of charge. Compare that with a park there could be no objection to the sale of used by the people on five or six days of this small area. Today we have another the year during show week when they have .agreement between the Council and the to pay an entrance fee. There is no com :R.N.A. The Leader of the Labour Opposi parison between a public park available to tion of the day, the late Forgan Smith, led the people every day of the year and a piece of land excised and enclosed, admittance to .a strong attack on the Bill. He said in which is only gained by the payment of a Yol. 160 of "Hansard "- charge. "I am entirely opposed to this Bill, as it means the disposal of the park lands illr. Sparkes: Not always. of Brisbane. Any park lands situated in the more densely populated city area should illr. WOOD: In the great majority of be held for the people. I am entirely cases. The showground is used for football opposed to the sale of public lands owned matches, cricket matches, sporting fixtures by the State . . . Bowen Park is one of the and speedway but an admission charge is prettiest little open spaces in Brisbane ... demanded. Children's sports and religious 'The Minister has said that the parties ceremonies are held there on only a few days ·concerned have met on the ground and have of the year, but that cannot be compared with .come to certain decisions. Who were these free access to parkland not on a few days people who made the agreement, and who but on 365 days of the year. I do not sug gave them authority to agree~ . . . A gest for one moment that the Premier desires majority of the members of this Parlia to take away further land from our park ment agreed that no further areas of this areas. He was emphatic on the initiation of park should be sold.'' the Bill and he gave the House his firm 'fn attacking the measure the late Mr. Hanlon assurance that he would not agree to the ;gaid that the plan to sell the land was in wholesale filching of parkland. Hon. members defiance of Parliament's decision in 1929 should keep in mind that Section 7 of the that no authority should be given to the Act passed 26 years ago laid it down that Governor-in-Council to approve of further that would be the last excision of parklands .sales. "Parliament was of the opinion that but we have no guarantee that there will this little gem of a park should not be not be an excision in the future. My princi destroyed,'' he said. pal purpose in recapitulating what took place on that occasion is so that members will In introducing the present Bill the Premier realise the tremendous pressure on govern :said that the land now proposed to be trans ments generally to allow parklands to be ferred to the R.N.A. was used as a rubbish encroached upon. If the recapitulation of dump. That would lead us to believe that portion of the debate that took place does it was of no use to the public in any way. nothing else but instil in us the determination Royal National Agricultural [29 OCTOBER.] and Industrial, &c., Bill. 705 to resist those pressures, no matter what the Jllr. NICKLIN: Something could have source may be, then the perusal of been done but in the meantime it was put to '' Hansard'' for 1931 will not have done any good use by the Royal National Association. harm. As I said before, I realise that this is a tiny area. I am not for a moment accus What is the Royal National Association~ ing the Premier or his Government of any It belongs to the people of the State and it intention to carry out a policy of giving has done a very fine job for Queensland. away our parklands. The Premier has said With the support of the public that Associa otherwise and I accept his assurance, but tion has provided one of the best showgrounds all hon. members and the public generally in Australia. It was said during the intro must realise that as the population increases ductory stage that grounds in the Chermside so we will have greater need for our present or Kedron areas should be used by the asso parkland or increased parkland. If our ciation. No-one with a knowledge of what remarks have done nothing more than spread the transfer would mean would make such a that realisation, the effort will have been suggestion. It is the best metropolitan show worthwhile. ground in Australia, situated in the centre of the city with road and rail transport, Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough advantages not possessed by showgrounds in -Premier) (5.51 p.m.), in reply: I listened other capital cities. It has something which with interest to the statement of the Leader no showground in any other capital city has. of the Opposition. I agree entirely with the sentiments he expressed, although his case Jl1r. Lloyd: As the city and the State was a weak one. The Government would expand what will happen~ never have agreed to the excision of this minor portion of Bowen Park if it had meant Jlir. NICKLIN: The showground will taking something of real value from the develop with the State. Additional facilities public. are being provided year by year; the Asso ciation is building upwards. The Royal li'Ir. Sparkes: We are giving them more National Association has plans to build up amenities than they had before. into the air. It has bought land to be devel oped round the showground area. Has the lUr. NICKLIN: Exactly. hon. member looked at some of the houses it has bought-/ If the Royal National Association had asked the Government for the whole of Bowen Jllr, liloyd: With people living in them. Park, its representations would not have been considered for a moment. The land is Jllr. NICKLIN: They were falling down a small piece, triangular in shape, that dis with the people in them. The houses were rupts the boundaries of the park and the offered to people to take away for nothing showground. It is of no value to the park, but they would not take them. There is no but would be of value to the Association. If need to worry on that score. I can assure the Association is able to straighten out the the House that the Government are just as irregular boundary, it will be able to erect jealous as hon. members opposite in pre on the site a building that will be of great serving public parks for the people. If this service to the public. Bill meant a disadvantage to the people it The Brisbane City Council and the Asso· would not have been introduced. The arrange ciation agree on the subject. Hon. members ments under it will not only be to the advan know that, if the Council considered that the tage of the Brisbane City Council who con excision of this land would spoil the park, trol public parks, but to the R.N.A. and the it would certainly not agree to the transfer. people. It is only giving the Association a The Council would have raised considerable little piece of land which will enable it to fuss about it. make full use of its limited area, something the hon. member for Kedron -commented The Leader of the Opposition went back upon. It will enable the R.N.A. to use every many years to quote statements in 1929 to piece of land to advantage. Otherwise it show that no further excision of land from would have to waste land in an area where it Bowen Park would be agreed to. At that is not to the advantage of the Association time there was a great deal of public hos that land should be wasted. tility to the transfer of the whole of Bowen Park. There was not a great deal of public lUr. Sparkes: The Leader of the Opposi protest, except that raised in the Chamber tion agreed with it when he was in Govern for political purposes, against the taking of ment. the part of Bowen Park transferred to the Royal National Association. That portion of lUr. NICKLIN: The Leader of the land was not of great value to the park. It Opposition is speaking with his tongue in his was in a disgraceful condition, but it was cheek in objecting to the taking away of put to useful purpose by the Association. public parks. We are not taking anything away; we are giving a public body somethinl6 .iUr. Wood: Could not those in charge of that it can use to advantage. the park have beautified it 10 or 20 years later~ Motion (Mr. Nicklin) agreed to. 1957-z 706 Royal National Agricultural [ASSEMBLY.] and Industrial, &c., Bill. CO:MMITT'EE. R.N.A. Those who criticise the transfer should realise the value of the wonderful (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, sporting oval the Association provides. Many Clayfield, in the chair.) of the principal sporting events are held there Clause 1-Short title-as read, agreed to. from time to time. Clause 2-Authority to transfer- l\Ir. Lloyd: It is somewhat similar to the Melbourne cricket ground. Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (7.16 p.m.): I was very interested in the Premier's remarks l\Ir. POWER: That may be so to some about the selection of a new site for the extent. The R.N.A. is a wonderful asset to Royal National Association's showgrounds. Queensland and the Government should give I think he realises that a new site would be it every possible assistance to obtain further of importance to the whole of the Stn te, land for expansion. Some of the land; likely because he said that the showgrounds in to be required is held by people who want reality were the property of the people of fabulous prices for it knowing that the Queensland. The finding of a new home for R.N.A. wants it. the showgrounds is something to which con siderable attention has been given by the What site could be more suitable for the general public. Many people contend that showgrounds than the present location f It with the growth of the State and the expan is central. Trams run to it and it is con sion of Brisbane, a larger area must be venient to other means of transport. It is found for the showgrounds. There are in ideally situated for the people from various Brisbane large areas of land with reasonable suburbs. If it were taken further out trans access that would be suitable. port charges would increase and so the cost Mr. Nicklin: Can you suggest some of going to the Exhibition for the working man and his family would be greater. alternative sites~ Mr. LLOYD: I have already made one Ur. Gair: All the facilities for the suggestion. I am now suggesting that the loading and unloading of livestock are there. possibility of an alternative site should be examined on a governmental level, perhaps l\Ir. POWER: Yes. I should be com in consultation with the Brisbane City pletely opposed to any interference with the Council. R.N.A. Personally I should be glad to see the Association own all the land and build )Ir. Nicklin: Where is there an area ings in the area, even including the Museum that is large enough~ Do you know of any and the land right across to the other side area~ of the road if it can get it. That will cost Mr. J,LOYD: I have already mentioned a great deal of money and if the prices the rifle range at Enoggera. It is a nuisance asked are exorbitant the Government might to many people in the vicinity. It could be consider resuming some of those lands on shifted outside the metropolitan boundary behalf of the Association. I say emphatically where ample land is available. There may it is a wonderful association because I know be other areas around Brisbane with suitable its work. Ther lllr. ROBERTS: Yes, certainly, his the past when the matter of the adjustment ideas are bright but not practicable. The of parliamentary salaries was before the Royal National Association could not trans House a number of methods were adopted fer to a new site and build the equivalent but in the majority of cases there was con of the present stands for £1,000,000. We siderable public reaction because the fixation know of the high costs in Melbourne to pro of parliamentary salaries was undertaken by vide accommodation for the Olympic Games. members of this Chamber without any report The Government believe in decentralisation, on the matter, or without fixing any standard consequently Brisbane will not expand in the on which those salaries should be based. future to the extent it has done in the past but rather we have great hopes that the Jlir. Power: You will always get various centres outside Brisba11e will grow criticism no matter what you do. much more. Mr. NICKLIN: There will always be The hon. member for Kedron mentioned criticism of any Government on the matter Enoggera as a possibl<' alternative site. If of parliamentary salaries, particularly if it were possible to find the necessary money they are upward. If they are downward perhaps Enoggera might be the closest site there will not be as much criticism. Looking but we must remember that the land occupied back over the years, I recall that there was by the Army at Enoggera belongs to the an adjustment to parliamentary salaries Federal Government. The hon. member for following a report furnished to the Victorian Mackav could tell the Committee about all Parliament. The basis of that report was the difficulties experienced in connection with used by this Parliament for adjusting parlia the rifle range in Mackay. Wlith the new site mentary salaries, and there was very little the shire council is experiencing difficulty public reaction to the Bill. When I was with the Federal Government in taking over Leader of the Opposition I either supported the area-where roads should go and the action taken to adjust parliamentary who should be responsible for them. It salaries or I opposed it, according to the would be much better for the R.N.A. to circumstances existing. I may say that I acquire extra land by resumption. The figure supported an adjustment when we used the of £1,000,000 is ridiculously low, but even so, yardstick of the report furnished by the on the basis of £5,000 a resumption, a large Nicholas Commission to the Victorian Parlia area would be acquired by the resumption ment. I must admit that I and all members of 200 properties at that figure. of the Opposition at the time very strongly opposed the last adjustment of parliamentary Clause 2, as read, agreed to. salaries here. I took the attitude that it was Schedule, as read, agreed to. not justified at the time and that action should have been taken by the Government Bill reported, without amendment. to appoint a tribunal to investigate and report to Parliament on the question before action was taken. We did take strong objection CONSTITUTION ACTS AMENDMENT to several clauses in the Bill. BILL. ]Ur. Wood: You moved an amendment SECOND READING. to that effect. Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough -Premier) (7.28 p.m.): I move- lUr. NICKLIN: We did. We also took '' That the Bill be now read a second strong objection to several sections that are time.'' being amended by this Bill. We took objec tion to the clause tying parliamentary salaries I do not propose to add very much to what to the salaries of under secretaries. At that I said on the initiation of the Bill when I time I believed it was an attempt by the explained the provisions very fully. Government to endeavour to arrive at some The Leader of the Opposition said that measure to govern the movement of parlia the Government are not prepared to stand up mentary salaries. to their responsibilities in the fixing of lllr. lUann: Some stability. parliamentary salaries. The Government are prepared to accept their responsibilities not lllr. NICKLIN: Not exactly stability, but only in this matter but towards every measure that there should be some measure by which brought before the House. The provisions of parliamentary salaries moved up and down. the Bill do not take into account the Govern It has been proved since that what actually ment's responsibility at all, but merely imple happened was different from what was ment what we have always urged and stood intended by the amendment. It has become for in the Chamber, that there should be some so objectionable, particularly to public method of fixing parliamentary salaries other servants-and, as the leader of the Q.L.P. than by hon. members themselves. The Bill said, an embarrassment to the Industrial is an example of what we stand for. The Court-that it is wise that we should amend effect of the Bill is to peg parliamentary it, as the Bill does. There was another salaries as from now. If there is to be any objectionable principle which provided that alteration IYhile the present Government are before hon. members were entitled to receive in office it will be made only after a full the amount that was approved by the Bill examination by an independent tribunal. In they had to apply to the Clerk of Parliament. 708 Constitution Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. Regarding the insertion of that provioion, about the lack of consistency and sincerity une hon. member opposite-I do not know of hon. m em hers of the official Opposition whether it was the Leader of the Opposition in that they adopted a different attitude to or the hon. member for Kedron-said it was certain legislation from that formerly adoptec1 inserted because some hon. member on this by them. In view of those statements, I side interjected, "Why don't you do iH" draw attention to the change of attitude on If legislation was drafted on the basis of the part of hon. members of the Q.L.P. They interjections, the result would be impossible. supported the Constitution Acts Amendment I do not believe that was the reason. The Bill when it was introduced in 1953, but now legiolation was introduced for an entirely endorse this Bill repealing certain sections different reason but unfortunately it ha.d a inserted in the Act at that time. The mem boomerang effect. A provision such as that bers of the official Opposition do not deny should not be included in any legislation. them the right to alter the opinion they held in ] 953. Under a democratic parliamentary ilJr. iUann: I grant it was not a very desirable provision. system all hon. members have the right to change their mind and alter their attitui!e to Mr. NICKLIN: It certainly was not. legislation. It was very surprising to hear The hon. member for Brisbane must admit the support given to the Bill by the ex-Premier tl~at if it was. included in legislation dealing in view of attacks made on members of the wrth the salanes or wages of workers, there official Opposition earlier today on their would be trouble. change of attitude to other legislation. If hon. members on the cross benches of the Mr. li'Iann: There would. Opposition have the right to change their lUr. NICKLIN: He probably would be opinion, surely members of the official Opposi the first to protest, and I would join him. tion have the same right. It was rather It w_a~ a most objectionable and unnecessary interesting to hear the hon. member for provrsron. South Brisbane on the introductory stage of this Bill say that he supported the principle lUr. iliann: I agree. of a tribunal to fix the salaries of Parlia ltir. NICKLIN: We are on the same side mentarians. When the then Leader of the occasionally. Opposition moved an amendment to the 1953 legislation for the appointment of a tribunal I am sure all hon. members will admit that it was opposed by the hon. member for parliamentary salaries in Queensland are South Brisbane and other members of the adequate at present and by comparison with cross Opposition benches. parliamentary salaries elsewhere in Australia are fair. li'Ir. Nicklin: The then Premier was Mr. Power: You must admit that the overseas at the time. allowances in other States are very high. JUr. LLOYD: He was a member of the lUr. NICKLIN: The allowances in other third party that voted against the principle States are superior to the allowances paid of a tribunal. We of the official Opposition here. are now made the subject of attack for li'Ir. Power: An allowance of £14 for a realising now that the University legislation telephone is not very much. was wrong. The members of the third party bitterly contested the appointment of a Mr. NICKLIN: T'hat may be so, tribunal in 1953. but hon. members have the free use of the telephones at Parliament House. Parlia In a heated debate provocation was given mentary allowances are not being considered at the time for the insertion of that part at the moment. We are considering the relating to the necessity for members to apply removal from the Act of the objectionable for the increased salary. Hon. members provisions on parliamentary salaries. opposite asked for it. The hon. member for Mr. Power: You must admit that a Aubigny asked the Deputy Premier to intro travelling allowance of £65 for a metropolitan duce it. It is interesting to cast our minds member is not high. It barely pays the back to 1953 when the Government, when registration of a car. in Opposition, stated in this Chamber-and ilir. NICKLIN: The hon. member must gaYe the idea to the public-that they did have a Rolls Royce. not think members of the Queensland Par liament were worth £1,575 a year. That No, I have a truck. Did li'Ir. Power: amount is now increased to £2,510 and it is you not read about it in ''Truth''~ interesting to realise that once hon. members ilir. NICKLIN: It must be a 5-ton truck. opposite move to the Government benches The Bill, however, does not deal with parlia they say they are worth not £1,575 but mentary allowances; it deals only with £2,510. I agree with hon. members that salaries. they are worth every penny of the Mr. LLOYD (Kedron) (7.38 p.m.): The £2,510 they get. When salaries of mem Bill is not contentious. bers of Parliament were low there was Earlier today statements were made by little incentive for people outside to place hon. members on the Opposition cross benches any respect in Parliament and its members. Constitution Acts, &c., Bill. [29 OCTOBER.) Proflteering Acts, &c., Bill. 709 There was no incentive to secure representa Further, the tribunal's recommendations aTe tion in this Assembly. Today we have in the made mainly on the evidence of members of House three barristers, the hon. members for Parliament. You come back to the same Windsor, Mount Gravatt and Kurilpa, each public odium. After the Nicholas report to well Tespected in his pl'ofession. They will the Federal Parliament the newspapers had find now that they will not be able to follow a good deal to say about the wonderful their profession to the extent they might salaries and marvellous allowances paid to desil'e and will have to rely to a gTeat members of Parliament. The system that extent upon theil' Parliamentary salaries. I was introduced by the 1953 legislation was am certain they are finding with the respon an effort to take the fixing of salaries away sibility of membership and the numerous from Parliament itself. However, objection duties they are called upon to undertake to it was raised by the State Public Service socially and outside that it is not as easy Union and by public servants themselves. as they might have thought before enteTing The same thing occurs with other adminis Parliament to live on a ParliamentaTy salary. trations. The people at the University did The incl'ease from £1,575 to £2,510 was, not like certain legislation and protested and of course, brought about by tying the Par the whole matter was reviewed and part of liamentary salary to its equivalent in the the legislation repealed. State Public Service. \Ve do not oppose the Bill. However, we I am sure the PTemier will agree that the have explained the reasons for the original action of the Acting PTemier of the day was legislation and tried to convince the Premier a sincere attempt to take from increases that, whether he appoints a tribunal or not, in the salaries of members of Parliament the and whatever he does subsequently, the Bill public odium that is usually attached to them. returns to Parliament the right to increase or In the same way as everyone else, members reduce members' salaries, in other words the of Parliament are faced with the difficulty right to fix Parliamentary salaries. of meeting ever-increasing costs. The diffi Motion (Mr. Nicklin) agreed to. culty was to increase salaTies in a way that would not give rise to public odium, and the COMMITTEE. method suggested by the then Acting Premier (The Chahman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, was worth a trial. It had been suggested Clayfield, in the chair.) that members of Parliament should go before the IndustTial Court for an increase in Clauses 1 to 8, both inclusive, as read, salaries in the same way as other people. agreed to. However, the method was adopted of tying Bill reported, without amendment. our salal'ies to Public Service salaries but it has not met with the approval of the present Government. PROFITEERING PREVENTION ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. The only alternatives to the present methods of fixing Parliamentary salaries are, INITIATIOC>! IN COMMITTEE. firstly, to appoint a tribunal for the purpose (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, or, secondly, for Parliament itself to fix them. Clayfield, in the chair.) In both cases, however, you return to the difficulty that the original legislation avoided Hon. A. W. 1UUNRO (Toowong- -the need for Parliament itself to approve Attorney-General) (7.55 p.m.): I move- of an increase. Regardless of what the " That· it is desirable that a Bill be Premier has said, in the final analysis Par introduced to amend the Profiteering Pre liament itself will fix the salaries. If a vention Acts, 1948 to 1954, in certain par tribunal is appointed, members of Parliament ticulars. ' ' will be its main witnesses. The tribunal I had intended when introducing the Bill to will then forward a recommendation to Par give a · short explanation of Government liament. policy on price control. However, this has been fairly fully covered in the debate on lllr. Nicklin: Any submissions that are made to a tribunal will naturally be investi the motion of the Leader of the Opposition gated by it. That is very different from on Wednesday last, and it is not now neces deciding something in Caucus. sary for me to cover the same ground. However, I may mention for the informa 1\'Ir. LLOYD: I quite agree, but Parlia tion of hon. members that in the light of ment will still have to sit in judgment on any experience since 12 August, 1957, it has been recommendation that a tribunal might make. found that in recent yeaTs there has not been It has happened that the recommendations of a sa tisfuctoq measme of liaison between the tribunals have not always been fully adopted vaTious departments affected. by the opera by Parliaments. tion of price control. Many business people lUr. Nicklin: The Federal Parliament is complain that they are being directed by too about the only one that has departed from a many authorities. For this reason an tribunal's recommendations. essential feature of the Bill is the provisiOn of ma.chinery for a greateT degTee of 1\'Ir. LLOYD: In any case, we come back co-operation between my department, the to the basic fact that in the final analysis Department of Labour and Industry and the Parliament itself must make the decision. Department of AgTiculture and Stock. It is 710 Proftteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. believed that the new arrangements will and, if necessary, recontrolling goods and materially assist to remove any harsh features services under the Acts. In the terms of the of price control which in the past have mili Bill the Prices Advisory Board is to consist tated against the expansion of existing indus of three members: the Under Secretary, tries and the attraction of new industries to Department of Labour and Industry, who is Queensland. to be the Chairman, the Commissioner of Under the Profiteering Prevention Act as it Prices, who is to be the Deputy Chairman, stands at the present time, Section 8 makes and a person appointed by the Governor in provision for the appointment of a Queens Council, who shall be an officer of the Depart land Prices Board to consist of three mem ment of Agriculture and Stock. The Bill bers, namely- contains provision for the appointment by any member of the Board, with the consent of his ( a) The Commissioner of Prices, the Chairman; Minister, or by that Minister, of a deputy to act in the place of such member, and for (b) A member of the Industrial Court meetings to be called by the Minister or by other than the President of the Industrial the Chairman or by the Deputy Chairman. Court, who shall be appointed by the The main function of the Board will be to Govemor. in Council; and 1·eport and recommend to the Minister whether (c) A person appointed by the Governor any goods should be controlled, decontrolled in Council, who shall be either the Director or recontrolled under the Acts. The Board is of the Bureau of Industry, an officer of the also to make reports and recommendations to Department of Labour and Industry or an the Minister on any matter which he may officer of the Bureau of Industry. refer to it. There is further provision for After the passing of the 1948 Act the the Board to advise and consult with the Com Board was constituted. Mr. Dwver was missioner of Prices on any matters which he appointed as the member of the Iildustrial refers to it, or which any other member of Court and Mr. Colin Clark, Director of the the Board refers to it. Members of the Board Bureau of Industry, was appointed the third are also enjoined to advise and consult with member. No fre~h appointments were made each other as the circumstances may require. following the resignation of Mr. Clark and It will be noted that the Under Secretary, the death of Mr. Dwyer. The Board did meet Department of Labour and Industry, when the Act first came into operation, but Mr. Hoare, is to be the Chairman. He. in since 30 November, 1950, it has not his official position, has knowledge of the functioned. secondary industries of the State, and is well versed in labour conditions throughout the The present Section 9 of the Act provides State. It is thought that he will bring to that the functions of the Board are advisory the office a skilled mind, and that he will be ancl consultative, and the power to call meet able to take an impartial and independent ings is vested in the Commissioner of Prices. view of the control, decontrol and recontrol It further provides that the member of the of goods in relation to pnce fixing. It is Industrial Court shall inform, and keep most desirable that the Chairman of this informed, firstly, the Commissioner of Prices Board shiuld be independent of the Prices of the probable effect upon matters within the administration so that he can see the various jurisdiction of the Industrial Court of altera problems of price control in their proper per tions in the maximum prices and rates of spective. The Commissioner of Prices, declared goods and services, and,, secondly, Mr. Fullagar, will be the second member and the Industrial Court of the prooable effect Deputy Chairman; and he will bring to the on prices and rates of declared goods of Board his expert knowledge of the operations alterations in wages in any trade, calling or of the Act and all the experience which has industry. come to him through his occupancy of his Section 9 also provides that it shall be the position since the inception of the Acts. function of the third member to furnish the Commissioner with all such information and The third member, who will be an officer statistics as may be required by him for the of the Department of Agriculture and Stock, purpose of enabling him to fix and declare will have a knowledge of the operation of the maximum prices and rates for declared primary industries in Queensland, and will be goods and services. able to advise the Board on all matters relating to the marketing of primary pro The Bill proposes to repeal Sections 8 and ducts. I understand that the Director of 9 of the Act and replace them by new sec Marketing, Mr. Hunter, will be appointed to tions. As the Act stands Section 26 leaves this position. the matter of controlling, decontrolling and recontrolling as the entire responsibility of Finally, I emphasise that in the considera the Governor in Council. However, it is tion of this Bill and in th~; working of this desirnble that this work should be done Ad.visory Board it must be recognised that systematically and consistently, and after price fixation is not an end in itself; it is each matter has been thoroughly investigated. merely one of a number of means to an end. The object of the Bill is to reconstitute the We who are members of this Country-Liberal Board for the purpose of carrying out its Party Government give place to none in our consultative and advisory functions and for desire to promote and protect the interests the purpose of bringing about an orderly and of the ordinary man arid woman. We believe rational system of controlling, decontrolling that governmental price controls should be P1·ojiteering Prevention Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 711 retained to such extent, but only to such ago. One of the members left the Govern extent, as they aTe necessaTy in the public ment service many years ago, and another interest. We believe that in the final analysis member died a year ago. However, the idea a much more I1ealthy economy and a better of a board must have been good, because it standard of living can be built up, not by has been confirmed by the Government. The artificial restrictions but by a positive policy board has not been jettisoned by the Govern of encouraging individual enterprise and ment, but has been reconstituted. stimulating productive industry. The Minister has told the Committee that 1Ur. WOOD (North Toowoomba-Leader the Under Secretary, Department of Labour of the Opposition) ( 8.4 p.m.) : If there were and Industry, and an officer of the Depart no further change to be made in the prices ment of Agriculture and Stock will be control structure than that outlined by the members of the board. Both of those Attorney-General this Committee and the officers should be able to give good service public generally would have very many in price determinations. The changes are grounds for satisfaction. With some varia not af! important as those envisaged in the tions as outlined by the Minister, this is a Minister's Press statement on 10 October, continuation in an altered form of the sys when he said that the reconstitution of the tem that was written into the 1948 legisla Board would assist materially in imple tion and which was discontinued in N ovem menting the Government policy of removing ber, 1950, when the Queensland Prices Board, what the Minister called harmful artificial for various reasons, ceased to meet. The controls. If it was merely a streamlining Minister has given an outline of the Bill, of the system and the removal of causes but until hon. members have a copy of it they of irritation, delay and frustration, there will not understanc1 its implications. would be no cause for complaint, but if it is a start in implementing the Government The constitution of the board will be policy on price control, it is a horse of an altered. I should like an explanation as to entirely different colour. the reason why the Commissioner of Prices is not chairman, and the chairmanship is to The Minister did not elaborate on what be given to the Under Secretary of the he called harmful and artificial controls. I Department of Labour and Industry, should like some clear definition of the Mr. Hoare, who, by ~the way, is a man for controls he had in mind when he made that whom I haYe the very highest regard. He statement on 10 October last. To whom are is a most efficient and reliable officer. the existing controls harmful~ Govm·nment members have claimed that they are harmful The Minister stated that he would have to the producer. That was their argument the advantage of the skill and experience of in justification of the recent callous decon the Commissioner of Prices, but I should trol of fruit and vegetable prices. However, like some explanation why that skilled man if one went to the source of Brisbane's should not be chairman of the board. I vegetable supply, the so-called Salad Bowl, think the Committee is entitled to an stretching to the Redland Bay area, one explanation of the alteration. would not find an impoverished farming . The functions of the board are not greatly community. Nobody wants to find an different from those set out in section 9 of impoverished farming community and hon. the 1948 Act. The Minister said they would members on this side have as little desire for be advisory and consultative. The board that as hon. members of the Government. member, who is a member of the Industrial These farmers are not only prosperous but Court, had the duty of keeping the Commis exceedingly prosperous. Since the early sioner of Prices informed on the probable 1940's they have never looked back and the effect on Industrial Court decisions of properties ·that changed hands for hundreds alterations in the maximum prices and rates of pounds at one time are now worth many for declared goods and servicc>s. He was thousands of pounds today. When the further required to keep the Court informed Minister talks of artificial control the impli of the probable effect of prices and rates of cation is that there is natural control which declared goods and services on wage altera should be allowed free function, and, of tions for any trade, calling or industry. The course, he would mean that sacrosant fiction third member was required to furnish such in business circles-the law of supply and information and statistics to the Commis demand, which is no law at all-a so-called sioner as would assist him in his determina law which can be evaded by ''cornering'' or tions of prices and rates. I take it that any other kind of commercial jiggery pokery generally the functions of the board are the is not a law at all, nor does it bear any same as those of the old board. relationship to law. It is just fanciful eyewash. We need a system of price control Other matters are inserted. The board can report on any matter referred to it or to prevent the :u-tificial control of foodstuffs manipulators. The Government seem to any matter it raises, but generally its functions are the same-advisory and think that if any harm is to be done to consultative. anybody between production and consumption of essential food commodities it is under no The Minister has said that the board has circumstances to be the producer. If it is not met since November, 1950. Apparently necessary to throw the people at large to the it ceased to be effective a considerable time commercial woh·es in the process, then that 712 Profiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. is unfortunate but inevitable, because used the nom-de-plume has twisted a state business is business. It will be interesting ment by Mr. Dedman. At no time did Mr. to hear what the Minister for Transport Chifiey make any statement about pensioners might have to say in view of his statement becoming capitalists. I advise anyone who when the 1948 Bill was before the House. says that the prices of fruit and vegetables I quote from "Hansard" Vol. 195, p. 388, have decreased since they were de-con trolled where, during the second reading debate he to do what I have done, that is, check the said- prices in the stores. If you pay Ss. a dozen " I dislike controls of any kind, but I for medium quality apples-- - believe it will be admitted by most reason JUr. Nicklin: You would be a mug to able people that some control over essential pay that for them. commodities is necessary, particularly where demands exceed supply. In very Mr. WOOD: I did not pay it. few instances is the actual existence of Yesterday I received a letter from one of the controls objected to; it is the way in Queensland's most distinguished medical which those controls are administered that men, supporting the case that I made in gives rise to dissatisfaction." Parliament. His name is a by-word in I repeat that if there is a fault in the prices Queensland, and this is what he has to say- structure it is the irritation and frustration " It has always annoyed me that fresh that comes in from time to time, and the fruit and vegetables are not reckoned in Government would be serving all sections of for basic-wage determination. Whoever the people far better if they aimed to drew up the diet scale was clearly incom remove those blemishes in the structure petent and seems to have regarded these rather than embark on a system of destroy items as luxuries to which the worker is ing the structure. There would be no not entitled. In fact, they are just as destruction of the structure in this amend much a necessity as meat and milk. ment but for the ominous statement by the ''There are two kinds of foods roughly, Minister in the Press that this was a step the solid body-building type as meat, fish, towards the removal of the so-called artificial eggs, milk and butter, and the almost controls. purely 'protective' types which supply the absolutely essential vitamins, especially B In his speech in 1948 the Minister for and C, the latter of which is not widely Transport allied himself with price control of distributed in nature. essential commodities, which is A.L.P. policy, ''They are not .present in quantity in but I do not know how he can argue that the meat, etc., but fresh fruit and vegetables recent decontrol of essential fish, fruits and are rich in these vitamins and so are vegetables is a corrective for unsatisfactory necessary. administration, which, he said, was the real bone of contention. However, we will be "Tasmanian school-children now get a interested to hear him on this matter when daily ration of black-currant juice, the l1e participates in the debate. I moved for richest source of vitamin C known. the disallowance of an order in rouncil ''To regard fruit and vegetables as tabled in the House last week and I was luxuries is false and unfair. But to judge taken to task in a recent issue of ''The by prices, they have, in effect, become Telegraph'' by somebody who signed himself luxuries; the other day I bought rather ''Pensioner.'' I would be extremely sur indifferent oranges at 9s. a dozen. No prised to find out if the writer who used working housewife can afford that for that nom de plume was reallv a pensioner. necessities. It is time these articles were Certai.nly he would not be ar{ aged, invalid put on the 'C' Series Index.'' or wrdow 's pensioner. This is what he As I say, that letter was written by one of says- Queensland's best-known doctors. He has '' For sheer hypocrisy, the outburst by never been a member of this or any other the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. Wood) Parliament. takes some beating 'on the cruel blow lUr. Gilmore: Don't you want the pro dealt to pensioners.' Fruit and vege ducer to get a fair return~ tables have never been so cheap in Toowoomba since the removal of price lUr. WOOD: Of course I do. What I control. want to ensure is that the man who exploits the producer-the man between the producer "Lahour has a very sorry record for the and the retailer or the consumer-is not way it has treated pensioners. The late placed in a position where his lust for profit Mr. Chifiey flatly refused an increase in is allowed to run unbridled. I quite agree the pension in the last four years of his that the producer is entitled to a fair return; regime and said he would not make no-one on this side of the Chamber has any capitalists out of pensioners." objection to that. In the letter that I have The last statement is just as false as the one just quoted the doctor said that he paid 9s. that fruit and vegetable prices in Toowoomba a dozen for oranges. Let the hon. member have cheapened since they were de-controlled. for Tablelands check back on those oranges At no time did Ben Chifiey make the state and find how mnch the producer got for ment attributed to him. The person who them. Profitee;·ing Prevention Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 713 lir. Nicklin: I should like to see the introducing the anti-profiteering and anti shop that was selling them for 9s. a dozen. combine legislation back in 1920 are still present today, the only difference being that Mr. WOOD: I have visited plenty of they are worse. stores and I have seen fruit and vegetable In his election speech the Deputy Premier, prices going up. No-one can tell me that this the Minister for Labour and Industry, alluded ''fairy godmother'' act of lifting controls to price control as a great fallacy. He said- has caused fruit and vegetables to become '' One of the great fallacies of Labour cheaper. policy iR the idea that prices of commodities The first really effectual legislation to put can be directed and controlled merely by a curb on profiteering in Queensland was issuing Orders in Council and regulations.'' introduced by the Ryan-Theodore Govern He did say however, that '' in unusual times ment in 1920 when the late James Larcombe, and in un~sual circumstances price control who was highly regarded by all who knew can fulfil a useful purpose.'' He went on to him, piloted through Parliament the Profit say that "this applied particularly to the cering Prevention Bill. necessity for the effective regulation and supervision of monopolies or trade com bina In his Second-Reading speech the late tions inimical to the public interest.'' As J ames Larcombe said that price· fixing was neither Mr. Morris nor the other members gradually becoming accepted as inseparable of his Government would ever dream of from an ordered economy and, in support admitting the existence of such things as of the Labour doctrine that there could be monopolies or trade combinations, it is a no logical discrimination between fixing matter of simple deduction to arrive at the wages and fixing prices, he quoted the noted conclusion that there is no room in their English economist, J evons, who said- minds for the continuance of price control '' If wages are to be arbitrarily settled in Queensland. ''Why continue price control by arbitration, there is no reason why the when there are no monopolies or trade com same thing should not be done with the binations operating~" the Government would prices of corn, iron, cotton and other ask. They are there all right, but, where things.'' the public through experience-and painful J evons was, of course, opposed to both wage expel'ience, too-can see big impersonal con fixing and price-fixing but he was logical cerns dedicated only to money-grasping and enough to concede that if you had the one dividends, the Government affect to see altru you should have the other. We of the Aus istic business organisations dedicated to the tralian Labour Party have consistently held service of the people. We are not likely ever that the fixation of prices should be a to get any agreement between such diverse co-ordinate of wage fixation. If one is cor outlooks and the Australian Labour Party rect you must have the other as its co-ordinate. well knew it when it instituted price control. I could say a great deal more but I have It is intmesting, when reading the debate not the time. On behalf of the Australian on the 1920 Profiteering Prevention Bill, to Labour Party let me re-emphasise our strong find that there was just as little relish for belief that without price control there wiH competition by big business then as there be far more exploitation. To my mind there is today. I spoke last week of the lack ?f is not the slightest doubt of that. While true competition in business today. B1g you have an arbitrary system of wage fixation companies in the same line of business pro you must have an effective system of price ducing and distributing necessary food and conb·ol. It is worse than useless to have a other commodities were bound by agreement system that does not operate properly, is and by substantial fidelity bonds to sell at unwieldy or cumbersome. The crux of the agreed prices and they could not compete whole matter is not to remove price control against each other. Mr. Larcombe gave a but to look for weaknesses in the structure list of these companies and their activities. and correct them if they are there. If the What was true in the 1920's is equally true Government believe that there is a weakness today. Mr. Moore, who was l~ter t.o becorr;e in the price control structure through the the Premier of Queensland, mterJected m falling into disuse of the board set-up under the 1920 debate that this price-fixing by the the 1948 legislation, we would welcome the sellers mmely amounted to co-operative pro reintroduction of that system if its purpose tection. ''That is all it is,'' he said. How is to streamline price control. ever, there was no co-operative protection for the consuming public, who were then JUr. :Jiunro: We are very glad to have paying extortionate prices exacted by the big your support. combines of Australia. Mr. Larcombe quoted from the Melbourne ''Age'' a statement Mr. WOOD: I know the hon. gentleman that the retail prices of practically all the will be too. I know that the very kindly Min" necessaries of life in Australia were con ister for Justice is worried by the drift in the trolled by trusts and combines. Some of price structure. I am not being unkind when these combines were openly organised trade I say we could see that in his handling of associations and others were intangible under the debate the other day when he vvas obvi standings, as it was stated. The very con ously most uncomfortable in making a very ditions which Mr. Larcombe attacked when weak answer to the Opposition charge that 714 Profiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. the Government have erred in lifting price themselves, but shelter behind the board. control on fish, fruit, and vegetables. If the One man in particular who will be on the re-institution of the Board will streamline board has already committed himself at a the system we will agree to it, but I would meeting to advocate the decontrol of certain be glad to have a reply to my query as to commodities. I have documents that I shall the reason for the change in the chairman quote at a later stage. A Government mem ship. Price control must be looked at from ber said that many delays had occurred and the point of view of all sections of the busilll:>ss people were inconvenienced. That community. Strengthening the qstem, remove is entirely incorrect. When an application its weaknesses, but in the interests of the is made for an increase in the price of a great mass of the people of the State do not commodity the CommissioneT sends out an emasculate a system which can be a great officer who is trained in that phase of protection to them. price contTol. One officeT who went out to make a report did not make it :ZUr. POWER (Baroona) (8.29 p.m.): I because the firm decided to appoint oppose the Bill. Price control has been oper him to its staff. The oil companies ating in Queensland for many years. During said that the prices investigators were the war it was taken over by the Common mediocre men, and the then Premier asked wealth Government and later handed back for a report on the qualifications of the to the States. When it was handed back an investigators; and it was found that their examination of the position was made by qualifications were much higher than the the Queensland Government who endeavoured qualifications of some people employed by to make a realistic approach to price control. the oil companies. It was found that anything from canary seed to anchors was controlled by the Common There is to be a new board and Mr. Fulla wealth Government when they were in charge gar is to be relegated to. a mino~ position. of price control in Australia. Price control What is the reason for his demotiOn~ Mr. was placed even on the building of homes. Fullagar has been the Commissioner of Prices By a gradual process of elimination the for many years and he knows more. about Queensland Government removed price con price control than ~ny o.ther ma~ m the trol from many commodities. State. What is behmd his relegatiOn to a minor position~ I have a high regard for If there is any suggestion to be made MT. Hoare of the DepaTtment of Labour and about faults to be found in the Prices Depart Industry; he is a very capable and efficient ment in their dealing with matters affecting officer. The Under Secretary of the Depart price control let me say quite emphatically ment of Labour and Industry has many duties that any delays were the result of the people other than those of chairman of the board. who made applications for price increases but Mr. Fullagar has held his position for many who did not supply correct information. years. His relegation to a junior position on lUr. Harrison: Rubbish! the board is a slight to him. The third member of the board is an officer 1\'Ir. POWER: The hon. member would of the Department of Agriculture and Stock. uot know. Some time ago I received a My experience of officers of that department deputation from people who were interested is that they have always suppoTted increased in dairying, seeking an increase in the price commodity prices. On moTe than one occa of milk. One gentleman-! shall not mention sion I had to tell them to mind their own his name-complained bitterly of the losses business and not to interfere in Mr. and of the parlous position that he found him Fullagar's work. self in. I directed that an immediate survey be made in the various parts of the State. I Towards the end of my term as Attorney directed officers of the Prices Department to General representations for increase~ prices visit this gentleman's farm, which is in the 1Yerc macle to the Department of Agnculture Beaudesert area. and Stock instead of to the CommissioneT of PTices. Those persons by-passed Mr. Fulla 1\Ir. Harrison: Why did you not leave gar. I told them in no unceTtain manner that that to the Prices Commissioner~ Mr. Fullagar would not deal with applica 1\Ir. POWER: I directed that an immedi tions unless they were sent to him. ate investigation be made. I did not say I have here "The Egg Board Bulletin" that I made the investigation. When they of September, 1957, issued by the South visited his farm he said, "I will send the Queensland Egg Marketing Board, the mar information", but he did not send it. The keting organisation of egg producers. officers made a further visit and he still Mr. Nicklin: Do you get that as a refused to supply the information. poultry farmer~ The Minister said that he did not propose to deal with the policy of his Government on IUr. POWER: I have a good poultry price control. I point out that that has stud. I bTeed birds including game cocks. already been dealt with by Government back Complaints are made from time to time benchers who said that the policy of this about increases in the pTice of poultry foods Government is decontrol of commodities. I and the difficulties of poultTy faTmers. The am satisfied that it is the intention of the previous Government decontrolled the price Government to decontrol as many commodities of eggs some time ago. The present Govern as they can, and not accept the responsibility ment aTe now going to appoint Mr. Hunter Proflteering Prevention Acts [29 OcTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 715 to the board. I shall quote from this paper to put on the board advocated de-control of to prove Mr. Hunter's unsympathetic attitude prices, and I refer to Mr. Hunter. There is io poultry raisers- no gainsaying the fact because the evidence· '' The Annual Conference of the Council is here. Mr. Hunter is a member of the of Agriculture held in August was opened Committee of Direction. by the Administrator, Mr. Chief Justice 3Ir. Harrison: No, he is a Government Mansfield. representative. ''The election of Officers resulted in the Minister for Agriculture and Stock (Hon. ::tir. POWER: He is the Director of 0. 0. Madsen) being President; the retir Marketing. I prosecuted the Committee of ing Deputy President, Mr. B. Foley (Cane Direction for overcharging. What is going growers' Council) was re-elected as were to happen when the variation takes place~ all retiring members of the Executive Com There will be a very steep increase in the mittee. They comprise: Messrs. H. S. price of commodities. My Government in Hunter (Director of Marketing), J. G. their desire to remove certain articles from Tod (State Wheat Board), R. L. Harrison price control where possible had a conference (Queensland Dairymen's State Council), 1vith representatives of the business com F. McCauley (Cotton Marketing Board), munity and we discussed the de-control of P. J. Savage (Committee of Direction of particular commodities. We agreed to the Fruit Marketing) and C. H. West (Ather de-control of a number of commodities and ton Tableland Maille and N 01·them Pig the representatives of the business community Marketing Boards). v:ere quite satisfied. Representatives of two '' The Egg Marketing Board were repre- particular firms came to me and said, ''What sented by Mr. R. E. Slaughter.'' ever you do, don't de-control because the cartels will fix prices.'' What is happening I shall not rf'ad all of it. Price control was to commodities from other States~ A shoe discussed. The following passage shows the manufacturer in Brisbane obtained an office attitude of the man who is now going to be at Tweed Heads and tried to work a racket appointed to assist Mr. Fullagar in price to get a higher price for his shoes. determinations :- lUr. ::uorris: Are you suggesting that ''The effect of price control on various there are cartels amongst the boot manu commodities and the anomalies particularlv in the margins between prices of grains of facturers~ comparable or near comparable feeding 3Ir. POWER: I gave a special case of values came up for discussion, and it was a boot manufacturer who had a business in decided to support the Atherton Maize Brisbane and was manufacturing his shoes Marketing Board and the Grain Sorghum here. HP had an office over the border that Marketing Board in applying for the de he never opened. He did not get away with control of prices of these commodities.'' the ;·acket. There are many cartels operating This is being done at a time when the indus outsrde Queensland who send their goods here try is experiencing the worst conditions for and say 1rhat price they want. We overcame years. the position by reducing the selling prices. ·when there was price control on potatoes J'IIr. Morris: Due largely to the imposi the hon. member for Southport said, ''I will tions of your Government. have a go at the Prices Commissioner.'' I said, "Have a go at the Potato Board at the lUr. POWER: I wanted the hon. gentle same time.'' Members of the Potato Market man to come in on that statement. He must ing Board were complaining about the action know the position, because I understand his of the Price-fixing Department and one son has some poultry. member of the Potato Board came from Mr. J'IIorris: My word he has. Townsville, drew his travelling expenses from Townsville to Brisbane as a member Mr. POWER: The hon. gentleman of the Board, and at the same time should know that eggs were decontrolled years was sending his potatoes over the border to ago. New South Wales. The advantages of price Mr. J'IIorris: What about the 250 limit? control should be taken into consideration. I believe that the producer is entitled to a Mr. POWER: What is wrong with that? r~aso.nable return_. B_ut how many commodi he_s m the farmmg mdustry are subject to Mr. ]lforris: A lot. pnce control at the source of production f l\Ir. POWER: It was reduced to 150. The beef that is produced by the hon. mem The Egg Marketing Board would be doing ber for Aubigny is not. I wish it could be. more for produ!(ers if it returned more to The dairying industry is subject to a certain them instead of spending it on the erection of amount of price control, but how manv other buildings, just as more could be done for primary industries are? It is the ·middle dairy farmers if money was not expended on man who is subject to a profit margin. Many the erection of the new building at Hamilton years ago a Royal Commission was appointed but was returned to them. Those are a to investigate the fruit and vegetable industry. few things that call for investigation. The l\Ir. Nicklin: That Royal Commission Government are not prepared to accept their r·ecommencled against the method of price 1·esponsibilities. One of the men they propose control that you introduced. '116 Projiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. llir. POWER: I was not administering propose to abolish price control by other price control then. I do not accept respon methods. It is a crying shame and a stand sibility for the actions of anybody else. If ing disgrace for them to treat the Commis I think anything is wrong, I reserve the right sioner of Prices, Mr. Fullagar, in the manner to criticise it. they have done, because he has done excellent \Vhat is the position today~ There have work on price control in Queensland for been suggestions that the Government intend many years. Certain people said, "We will to abolish price control. If they do not get even with him if there is a change of abolish it, they will at least make it ineffec Government,'' and it looks as though they tive. Some hon. members opposite say that have. the Commissioner for Prices, Mr. Fullagar, lUr. lliann: Who said that? should be removed from his office. They think he has no knowledge of price control. I\Ir. POWER: A number of them. The JUr. Lloyd: There are a few more heads Government should be honest and aceept to come off. their responsibility. If they do not want price control, let them throw it out. Mr. I\Ir. POWER: The Government have Hunter indicated his attitude on price con already started with the Department of trol in the poultry industry, which is going Justice. As time goes on I shall have some through the worst time it has had for many thing to say about that. It did not take years. He is prepared to recommend the them long to remove the Solicitor-General decontrol of maize and other grains neces from the Films Commission. That was one of sary to the poultry producers of the State. the first things they did. llir. Harrison: He can do away with the The wages of the workers are controlled. dictatorial control that you exercised. \Vhat is wrong with price control properly administered~ I ask hon. members opposite Mr. POWER: The hon. member's to give me one instance of price control mother should have done away with him at that has not been properly administered. birth. Then he would not have been here JUr. Munro: Prior to 12 August we had annoying us tonight. no experience of its being properly adminis Because of the change of Government the tered. people of Queensland will find themselves in a parlous position. The Government are llir. POWER: And the Government have there not in the interests of the workers-- not the experience now. If they had had any political sense they would not have introduced I\Ir. Roberts: For many years, too. this legislation. Have they discussed it with the Commissioner for Prices~ Did they I\Ir. POWER: Let the hon. member not tell him what they were going to do~ I do pull his own leg about that. not know if they did. I do not associate with I\Ir. Roberts: There is no chance of these officers. I will not hide behind the door pulling yours. of any Minister to get information. If I want information I will not embarrass a I\Ir. POWER: The hon. member has public servant by asking him for it. I will always had a reputation for pulling his own. ask for it in Parliament, even though I did The people of Queensland will suffer by a not get an answer from the Minister for worsening of conditions. The exploiter will Agriculture and Stock when it was suggested be given an open go on prices. Later on the that there should be an increase of ls. a same hon. gents will bring in a Bill to give bushel in the price of wheat. Incidentally, the rent racketeer an opportunity further to who made that recommendation~ I will bet exploit the workers of the State. that it came from the Department of Agri culture and Stock without any reference to illr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (8.53 p.m.): the Prices Branch. The hon. member for Baroona asked, ''Why This is the first step towards getting rid have we not done anything with price con of price control in Queensland. The Minister troH" The fact that we have done away and his Government are lacking in courage in with him is sufficient. not coming out in the open and scrapping illr. Power: You did not do away with price control altogether as was advocated by me. the Deputy Premier. That appears in " Hansard ". The Government are getting ilir. SPARKES: We have done away round it by saying, ''The Board recom with him on price control, and he was the mended the de-control of this commodity.'' biggest trouble >vith it. The hon. member The responsibility for de-control-- said he was bitterly opposed to the ls. I\Ir. Wood: The Government still must increase for wheat. The people want flour accept the responsibility. to eat. Unless they pay the wheat-grower more, all the wheat will go as fodder for lUr. POWER: Of course he must accept stock. The hon. member has no idea of the the responsibility. He is delegating his conditions in industry in the State. That is authority to the Board to bring in these why he makes statements like tha,t. For recommendations. As the Government have years he has stood behind the control of meat not the courage openly to decontrol, they to the extent that if a man came in with a Profiteering Prevention Acts [29 OcTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 717 fat cow that nobody wanted to eat it was llir. SPARKES: They are not subject to graded first-grade meat by him or his Com control. The Minister is trying to be fair. missioner, but if a man brought in a young He confers with officers from the Department heifer or a young steer-- of .Agriculture and Stock who would know what it costs to produce. But the hon. mem JUr. POWER: I rise to a point of order. ber for Baroona had no concern about what The hon. member is not correct in his state it cost the farmers to produce. His only ment. I did not brand beef, nor did the concern was how cheap he could possibly Commissioner of Prices. Branding was done get it. He did not care one iota whether the by the Department of .Agriculture and Stock. farmers and their wives and families had That information is for the edification of the to work night and day. hon. member. JUr. Roberts: Stand and deliver! The CHAIR~IAN: Order! I ask the hon. member to accept the denial. I\Ir. SPARKES: Stand and deliver! That was typical of the hon. member and ~Ir. SPARKES: I will accept his denial, his Government. They suggested that they but there is no doubt that the hon. member would confiscate goods if they were not made has been behind price control for years. Con available. In the long run trying to force sequently, instead of the people being able to people to grow commodities below cost brings get first-class meat, it has been graded about a shortage. second-class meat and of course they have not JUr. Power: That has never been done. got it at all. It is going over the border. I do not know what thr hon. member's colour ~Ir. SPARKES: It l1as been done and is now, but people of his previous colour, the the hon. member was the cause of its being Australian Labour Party in New South done. He got up and applauded it. He wa~ Wales, have no control over meat at all. I11 particularly happy. I remember listening to the hon. member still a Labour man~ him speaking from here, where he will never Mr. Power: .A better Labour man than be again-- ever. 1Ur. Power: Do not worry about that. !Ur. SPARKES: That is not what his lUr. SPARKES: The hon. member need friends on his right think. I do not want to not worry about that. dig up a dog-:fight between the two Opposi tions but there is no control of meat over the ~lr. Power: They tell me that there is border. The hon. member's idea of price a big split in your party any time now. control is, "When it is scarce we .;will control it; when it is plentiful we do not care what ~Ir. SPARKES: Wishful thinking! The the farmer gets.'' There are some German hon. member was concerned only with how people in my electorate who grew onions. cheaply he could get something. He forced Even the women worked harder than the hon. prices up for the very people concerned with member would know work could be. Yet he price control, the workers, because of lack reduced the price of onions overnight from of production. You cannot expect men to about £70 a ton to £17. go on producing at a loss. That is what he expected them to do. My friend, the hon. ~Ir. POWER: I rise to a point of order. member for Darlington, will tell the hon. The hon. member is misleading the Committee member the same thing. Yet the hon. mem when he says that I reduced the price of ber says that we do not know anything about onions. I never reduced the price of any price control. thing because I was not the Commissioner I\Ir. Power: The hon. member got £54 of Prices. for a bullock. Tl1e CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. mem ber for .Aubigny to accept the denial of the lUr. SPARKES: If one gets £54 for a hon. member for Baroona. bullock it is only owing to the great short age. If there was a really good season and ltir. SPARKES: I accept it. .Apparently bullocks were sold for £4 then the hon. mem the onions are making him weep. He cannot ber would be happy. The hon. member does deny it because it is in "Hansard". He not want to see the country develop. The applauded the reduction from £70 to £17. He producers are the backbone of the country. did not care about the unfortunate wretch I take my hat off to them. The more hon. who grew them. That man says, ''I will members opposite try to hound them down not grow any onions in future,'' and thus the dearer the products will become and more there is a shortage purely and simply caused will be paid by the people hon. members by the unfairness of the hon. member's con represent or misrepresent. The Minister is trol of that department. endeavouring to bring about the fairest sys tem. He is bringing in representatives of Mr. Walsh: How much a ton are they different departments instead of having all now~ members from one department. I\Ir. SPARKES: They are not £70 a ton. Mr. HARRISON (Darlington) (9.2 I\lr. Power: They are not subject to p.m.): The primary producer has had cause price control either. for concern for many years owing to the 718 Projiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. manner of price control that was carried out experience of price control, they had a one under the ex-Minister, the hon. member for track mind on the subject, but as the Gov Baroona. The primary producers did not ernment they have the responsibility of receive reasonable consideration whenever resolving the problem without increasing costs they approached the Prices Branch. We have of production and wages, and they find the often been told on the question of determin problem is not as easy as they believed it ing a price for a primary product, that that to be. was not a matter for the Commissioner of Prices, but was one for the Minister. Yet It is a very difficult problem. After the the then Minister stated in this Chamber that Chifiey Government referendum on price con he did not fix the price, that that was a trol was rejected in 1948, Queensland, with matter solely for the Commissioner of Prices. the other States, introduced alternative legis lation. In this State there was a real attempt Mr. Power: Quite right too. to control prices, with the result that the cost of living and basic wage are lower in Mr. HARRISON: That is not correct. Queensland than in other States. The benefit On a number of occasions I was a member of a lower basic wage is enjoyed by employers of a group who approached the Commissioner of labour. for Prices when he told us that it was a matter for ministerial decision. That is a :ftlr. Harrison: The cost of primary pro terrible state of affairs. It is true, as the duction is higher in Queensland than in any Leader of the Opposition apparently admits, other State. that there were a lot of faults in price fixing under the late Government. Price fix :illr. GAIR: That may be so. The hon. ing has been frustrating to primary industry. member probably has a more detailed know Weeks after you gave the facts and ledge of the subject than I have. figures asked for, you would get a letter The statements of hon. members opposite asking for further information, or to send a not only in this Chamber but from the public copy of your income-tax return. There were platform over a period of years would cause always long delays in giving a decision. It is one to believe that primary producers in absolutely impossible to conduct industry ox Queensland have been impoverished by price business along those lines. That is the control. The Minister for Labour and reason why this Government are determined Industry has stated repeatedly that price to endeavour to put price control on a faiT control has prevented the establishment of and reasonable businesslike footing. I say industries here. That is not borne out by the unhesitatingly that there are cases where it is facts. Primary producers in Queensland are useless to attempt price control. In othex as well off as those in other States. cases it is necessary in the interests of the community to exercise some form of price Industries have grown with great rapidity control. in Queensland despite all the alleged curses of price control. Do hon. members think :Mr. Wa!lsll: What would be the circum that Myers and David Jones and other stances that would justify price control~ people came from southern States and acquired well-established and traditional Mr. HARRISON: There are any number of cases. Although maize and sorghum are of busineMses in Queensland not knowing that almost equal feed value for the ex-Minister's price control was in existence~ That is _the fowls and for stock feed generally, the definite reply to the repeated co~plamts Commissioner of Prices and the hon. mem from the principals of those compames th~t ber for Baroona fixed the price of maize at price control would cause them to close thell' £36 10s. and sorghum at £22 a ton. That is doors. I remember in the short time I had the an example of almost irresponsible prices con responsibility of price control when we trol. reduced the retail prices of many goods so~d in Brisbane. We had leaders of the ret:ul ~Ir. Walsll: It would have to be related association saying that we were going to close to the cost of production. their doors and bring ruin to their businesses because of our action in cutting prices by Mr. HARRISON: Not at all, with grain 7j per cent. Were their statements, of similar value. I have bought grain warnings and cries confirmed~ Of course sorghum and felt sorry for the producers who not. The balance sheets of those companies had to accept the price of £22 a ton. The hon. at the end of the next financial year showed member for Baroona spoke of fairness in the increased profits and increased dividends to fixation of prices. My experience while he shareholders. IV e must disregard all the was in charge of that department was that clamours of these people. price fixation was further removed from fair ness than anything else I knew. I am conscious of the difficulties associ ated with price control. I know how !Ir. GAIR (South Brisbane) (9.6 p.m.): difficult it is to control prices on a State The Government will have to deal with few basis against a Commonwealth basis when matters as important or as complex as price you have one State adopting a different eontrol. I can understand their dilemma. policy to another, particularly when it is a While in opposition, influenced by those they contiguous State. When we had price con represent, and without very much, if any, trol on certain commodities and New South Profiteering Prevention Acts (29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 719 Wales de-controlled those commodities, and Meat is a very difficult commodity to con this happened on more than one occasion, we trol but surely no-one who has been to were embarassed by the difference in policies. Sydney or Melbourne will argue that th~re is not a big disparity between the pn~e Mr. Harrison: You are embarrassed of meat there and in Brisbane, where there 1s now. They might get all our wheat. price control. When I go to Sydney and see the price-tags on meat displayed in the shop lUr. GAIR: It was much easier to get windows, I am at a loss to understand how de-control in New South Wales. When the workers get by. pressure was brought to bear on that The establishment of a board of control, or Government of the day they apparently gave a consultation board, or whatever it might be way and our position became more embar called, may have some merit. But I do rassing and difficult. Because of State not think it could ever hope to be successful boundaries and section 92 of the Common if its decisions are to be influenced by people wealth Constitution and all the other phases with one-track minds. It is necessary to of interstate trade there is a problem that have a broad outlook in determining these the Government should handle with the matters. In 1948, when I was Minister for greatest of care and tact; they should not Labour and Industry, I introduced legislation give way to pressure groups whether of on price control. We set up a board of thr.ee primary producers or anybody else if their members, two of whom were the Commis claims are unjust and unfair. It is very sioner for Prices, who represented the court, human for people engaged in one particular and the Under Secretary of the Department industry to become one-eyed and prejudiced of Labour ancl Industry, Mr. Colin Clark, in their own fa;-our, forgetting, of course, who was veTy interested in this phase of the claims and the rights of other people. aclministra tion. The primary producer >Yill admit that the home market is his best market, but if he lUr. JUunro: The trouble is that it has can get a shade better price somewhere else not functioned for seven years. he never hesitates to take advantage of it. He leaves the people in the home market l\Ir. GAIR: No doubt that is for many lamenting for the commodity in question. reasons. I admit that soon after the board I know, Mr. Taylor, that had we disregarded was established it berame very evident that price control as they did in other States it was only token in character. The repre our basic wage would have been up with sentative of the court was merely a liaison theirs and industry in this State would be between the court and the Commissioner for required to pay the additional wage. Prices. He was there to be informed of the trend in prices and he took the information The Liberal Party Premier of South Aus back to the court for use in making deter tralia, Sir Thomas Playford, has seen the minations on the basic wage. The Under wisdom of retaining a great measure of price Secretary of the department had no jurisdic control. He has never been slow to compli tion under the Act. His function was merely ment the Queensland Government on the price consultative. fixing system that has operated here since ]}fr. HaiTi son: He could not see any 1948. At meetings of Premiers and others, fundamental fairness in it, either. He wiped he has been gracious enough to compliment them. the Queensland Government on their system of price fixing. I know that the hon. member :tUr. GAIR: Who wiped them? for Bundaberg will confirm that. I have attended conferences of State Prices Ministers ]}fr. Harrison: I think Colin Clark did. with Sir Thomas Playford, and I refer par ]}fr. Walsh: That was under the Com- ticularly to conferences that were held in the monwealth. year or so immediately following the defeat of the Federal referendum at which we went ]}[r. GAIR: He was under the Common through great lists of commodities that had monwealth. been controlled by the Commonwealth Gov ernment. We readily decontrolled many of IUr. Harrison: He was under the State, them because they were being produced in too. abundance and there was plenty of competi ]}fr. Walsh: No. tion in their sale. But we retained control on the things that mattered. That does not neces lllr. GAIR: On our board of three, that sarily mean only the items covered by the did not come into it at all. As a matter regimen associated with the C Series Index, of fact with all due respect to Mr- Colin which is a governing factor in basic wage Clark had he been handling prices there may determinations. If price control was limited have 'been cause for greater dissatisfaction to those items it would be unfair to the than has been expressed by hon. members worker. It would have the effect of keeping opposite with the present administration. the basic wage down and allowing the prices of many commodities as indispensable in his Mr. Fullagar is a very qualified public domestic life as those things included in the servant and a most diligent and industrious regimen, to go up. That would destroy officer. In my 15 years as a Minister of thE> the real value of the basic wage. Government, I found very few who could 720 Profiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. compare with him in industry and conscien the argument was going on and when I asked tiousness. He is a qualified accountant, sec for an Australia-wide investigation into th6 retary and cost accountant; he has all the ramifications of the oil companies in Aus qualifications necessary for the job. What is tralia. At the Brisbane airport Sir Arthur more-and there is plenty of evidence to Fadden himself told me, ''Well, Queensland support the statement-he has never sur has been confirmed on her stand in refusing rendered or submitted to pressure from any to increase prices for petrol. The oil person or persons. He has been honest in companies have caught the Commonwealth his administration, which is a great thing Government for something in the vicinity of for the public and for the State generally. £5,000,000." I said, "You have had the It is good to meet men who can carry out Tariff Board report for 12 months. Why their jobs well and give honest decisions. didn't vou disclose its contents before now~" Many people who cannot get their own way Since then the oil companies have reduced are prepared to defame the person concerned. prices. Yet while they were in posseRsion of this information, they hounded and fought the Jir. Harrison interjected. Queensland Government to obtain price lUr. GAIR: I do not know the case to increases in petrol which they got in other which the hon. member refers but I found in States without resistance. Does that not my own experience that people would come confirm the need for some supervision and to me as Minister, and later as Premier, and control? If you open the gate you will find when I examined their complaint I would plenty of people who will take advantage of find that they were contributing factors, too. it. They will rush out to get as much as In the legal world the solicitor will tell his they can at the expense of somebody else. I client that the Titles Offire is to blame for do not know exactly -what the composition of any delay. When you take the matter up, the Board will be. Mr. Thomson, the Titles Officer, will tell you, 1\'Ir. 1\'lunro: I told you. ''He has never been here. We have not got the papers." Blame the Government 1\'lr. GAIR: I do not know whether it all the time! Blame the Government will be able to expedite decisions or whether Department appears to be the line of it will delay them. I find that the more many people! That is hardly fair people that have a finger in the pie the more and I hope that the Minister handling the difficulties arise. With all their experi this complex question will not under-estimate ence I believe that Mr. Fullagar and his its importance and will ensure that prices are immediatE' executive officers are quite not allowed to skyrocket in Queensland as competent to continue to do the job they thPy have done in other States. Goodness have done well over the years. They have knows, it is hard enough for people to make done the job with a great measure of success ends meet today. It is particularly hard for despite the many difficulties encountered. The the working man with a wife and young indisputable evidence is in the fact that the children to clothe and feed. How he does basic wage in Queensland is lower than in it is a puzzle to me. It is only because of the other States and no section of producers has care of good housewives that they get by. In been impoverished or disadvantaged by price the administration of price control do not lose control in Queensland. sight of the fact that there is another side as well as the producers'. The consumers must Hon. A. W. MUNRO (Toowong be considered. Let us have justice and fair Attorney-General) (9.30 p.m.): We heard play. Do not let us have a repetition of three speeches from hon. members on the what is happening in the other States of the opposite side. There was the first speech by Commonwealth where prices have been the L,eader of the Australian Labour Party allowed to skyrocket, the purchasing power which I would describe as temperate. The of the pound has been depleted almost to second by the price-fixing champion of the nothing, whereas on the other hand manu Queensland Labour Party which I would facturers and other producers have built up describe as intemperate, and one by the big profits, are paying out big dividends and Leader of the Queensland Labour Party are getting rich at the expense of the working which I would describe as a mixture-intem section of the community. pm·ate in some parts, temperate in others, I sympathise with the Minister in his and in others containing quite a lot of difficult job. I will readily give my fullest sound logic. If they had a common feature co-operaton in an effort to find a satisfactory it was that they had some of the elements solution in the interests of the people. But of shadow sparring at ghosts and tilting at he slow in carrying out any campaign of windmills that did not exist. I think we will decontrol. On examination it will be found see these things later in their proper that there is a reason for all present controls. perspective. As I explained, the purpose of In the great controversy over the petrol this Bill is merely to constitute a Prices prices every other State in the Common Advisory Board. wealth very readily gave way. South Aus 1\'Ir. Power: Why didn't you make Mr. tralia had a report made. The attitude of Fullagar chairman~ the previous 'Queensland Gover:nplent was confirmed by the Tariff Board report which 1\'Ir. MUNRO: I have explained that too. was in the hands of the Prime Minister when I have explained that the main purpose of Projiteering Prevention Acts [29 OCTOBER.) Amendment Bill. 721 the Board is to act in an advisory and con their wealth in southern States to the stage sultative capacity in matters of the con when they can take over the best businesses sideration of control and de-control and, if here. Is it a good thing that this should necessary, re-control of goods. Quite a few become a State of branch managers~ Do points have been made which, however hon. members think that reacts to our credit, interesting they might have been, are not or does it merely prove the greater wealth quite relevant to the purposes of the Bill, and prosperity of New South Wales and Vic but there are some points which should be toria~ repliel. to merely because they have been I return to the statements of the hon. stated in this Chamber. member for Baroona, the former Attorney As a matter of convenience I shall deal General. I should have expected from him with the three speeches in their inverse a more objective analysis of the position. ordel. First, the hon. member for South He appeared to object to the whole idea of Brisbane, the Leader of thl'l Queensland an advisory board. I shall deal with that Labour Party made quite a feature of the point later, because the Leader of the lack of experience of hon. members on this Opposition also touched on it. I cannot side of the House. I suggest that we all imagine why it would not be a good thing have experience-hon. members on both sides to have a board to advise the Minister or of the House; but let me point out the the Government on the complex problem of difference l:,etween the experience of hon. commodities that should and should not be members on this side and the experience of subject to price control hon. members generally on the other side. I should say that the experience of thr three Jl'Ir. Power: It would be for the Minis hon. members who have spoken from the ter to say what eommodities should be sub Opposition side is largely experience of ject to price control. price control, of a purely negative approach ;ur. lUUNRO: That is where the trouble to our problems, but the experience of some arises. hon. members on this side of the House is of building up and carrying on the primary The hon. member for Baroona asked why industries of our State and establishing and there should be a representative of the building up the manufacturing and secon Department of Agriculture and Stock on the dary industries of the State. Some hon. board. Who would ask a question like that members on this side have had fairly exten in a primary-producing State like Queens sive experience of that. It is because of land, when the greater part of the wealth that experience that we see the difficulties and prosperity of the State is dependent on of price control that are not so clear to development and prosperity of primary those who have only seen the problem industries? through the eyes of public servants. If I understood him correctly, he then Mr. Walsh: Is it not the large body of asked why the Government had removed consumers who are mainly affected~ Mr. Fullagar from his position as Commis sioner of Prices. That is just one of the Mr. lUUNRO: Yes. We are conscious of ghosts. their interests, and we are concerned with their interests. The Leader of the Queens JUr. Power: I asked why he was rele land Labour Party said that we on this gated to a junior position. side of the Chamber had one-track minds. lUr. JUUNRO: The hon. member said What could be further from the truth! The that earlier, but then he asked why Mr. Ful object of the Bill is to get away from the lagar was removed from his position as one-track mind in price control. That is Commissioner of Prices. Let me make it abundantly clear. clear that there is nothing in the Bill that The low cost of living in this State has will affect his position as Commissioner. I been mentioned.. That is true enough, but in regard Mr. Fullagar as a very efficient the main that is a geographical fact, because and conscientious officer. Queensland is virtually the primary produc tion State of Australia. It is the State with ltlr. Power: Why do you not make him the great natural resources, the State that is Chairman of the board f undeveloped. The cost of living in Queens Mr. MUNRO: I shall tell the hon. mem land may be lower than the Australian aver ber if he ceases interrupting me in the mid age, but it must be remembered that Queens dle of a sentence. It would take me less land also has a lower standard of "ages. It time to knock over all the points made by is time we seriously considered whether it is him, if he refrained from interjecting. I in the interests of all the people that this shall tell the hon. member why he was not should be a low-wage State, a poor State made chairman. At the moment I am deal compared with the others. ing with that point that we are not in any The next point made by the Leader of the way altering Mr. Fullagar 's duty as Com Queensland Labour Party and he put it over missioner of Prices. I ask hon. members to as a very telling point was the take-over by realise that the primary function of this southern interests of our Queen Street retail Board is to act in an advisory capacity not shops. Is that a good thing~ Does it not for the Commissioner of Prices in his admin indicate that those cone·erns have built up istration, but as to how we can distinguish 722 Projiteering Prevention Acts [ASSEMBLY.] Amendment Bill. between what goods and services should be ~Ir. I\IUNRO: It is the board who will subject to price control and what should not. advise me. If members of the Opposition cannot appre ciate that there are tremendous differences ])lr. Wood: Do you not think that your between the circumstances in which some argument against his appointment as chair industries are carried on compared with man would disqualify him as suitable for others and in some instances there is a case appointment to the board~ for price control and in others there is not, ])fr. lUUNRO: I do not think it would. it can only be due-and I am being charit I do not think we can expect any one of able about it-to their lack of experience of the three members to be completely impartial. iadustry. I\Ir. Power interjected. Mr. Power: You did not tell me why you did not make Mr. Fullagar the chair JUr. lUUNRO: I am being objective man. about this, and if the hon. member can see any flaw in my logic I should like him to lUr. lUUNRO: I shall tell the hon. mem point it out. ber now. I was attempting to be logical and deal with the points raised by various As I say, not one of the three members speakers leaving the Leader of the Opposition can be expected to be completely impartial. till the last. As the hon. member for Baroona Probably the representative of the Depart is very impatient I shall tell him now, but ment of Agriculture and Stock would have I may have to repeat myself. The a slight leaning towards the interests of purposes of this Board are mainly to advise the primary producers. Similarly, the repre the Government on questions of control, sentative of the Department of Labour and decontrol and recontrol. Mr. Fullagar is Industry, because of his natural enthusiasm Commissioner of Prices and it is his job to and his responsibility, would probably have administer price fixation in relation to those a leaning towards building up the industries goods and ~ervices subject to control. The of the State. Therefore, we want to balance economic question of whether a particular the board. We do not want a single-track class of goods should be subject to control approach. vVe must necessarily have the or not is a completely different matter. It Commissioner of Prices on the Board. But involves a consideration not of the negative of the three members, the one who is most question of how we are going to restrict this likely to be impartial and to take a broad or limit that but how we are going to build view of the problems that arise is the Under up the great industries of the State, attract Secretary of the Department of Labour and new industries to it, encourage people to go Industry. It is for that reason that we on the land and produce more of those have made him chairman. things we really need to build up a higher standard of living. If we want a board to The third point raised by the Leader of advise us on those lines it must not be one the Opposition was more or less a chal person, and if I can use a phrase used by lenge. He said, ''To whom are the existmg the Leader of the Q.L.P., there must not be controls harmful?'' In my view, the existing a one-track mind. \Ve must have in the three controls as administered for the last five people on that board, firstly the viewpoint or seven years have been harmful to the of industry generally, mainly secondary whole community-the producers, the con industries, seeondly, the viewpoint of our sumers, and everybody else. When I say great primary industries, and thirdly, the that, let me again make myself clear. I technical approach of the skilled knowledge still say that we do not propose to abolish of the man who is a trained price fixer. price control. But as administered in There is the constitution of the Board and Queensland during the past seven years, it we have to decide who will be the Chairman. has been harmful to the community and has We had a discussion earlier on a Bill relating retarded the development of the State. It to parliamentary salaries, and it was said it may have achieved short-term benefits, but was a good thing to have an impartial and its long-term effects have been harmful. independent tribunal. Is it reasonable to That is one thing that we will have to clear expeet any man holding the office of Commis up. One Queensland Labour Party speaker sioner of Prices to be chairman of a board ! am not sure who it was-said that we and1 be completely impartial and independ lack~ed courage. At the same time, however, ent when considering whether particular he virtually said that we were going too goods should come under his jurisdiction far with this measure. We do not lack or noU There are no personalities in courage. In price control we are prepared this, but is it not better that the chair to take what actions we consider necessary man should be one having a very wide in the interests of the development of the sphere of responsibility and a primary State. In the long run that will be in the best interests of the people. We are pre aim to build up the State's industries~ Of course, we can also have as a member the pared to take those actions even though we skilled price fixer with all his valuable may have to pass through a period of tem experience. porary unpopularity. I know what I am talking about on this. I know that price ])Jr. Power: He still has to advise you control can temporarily keep down prices, as a member of the advisory board. Why but ultimately it creates shortages. It is not make him chairman? like curing a patient who has been very ill. Projiteering Prevention Acts [29 OCTOBER.] Amendment Bill. 723 Take away his crutches and the temporary I think it was the hon. member for Baroona effects may seem to be bad. He may have who asked us to state what commodities we some slight inconvenience. But all the think should be subject to price control. experience in the other States has shown There may well be quite a few. One broad that on the whole they have come off rather general description was given by the Deputy better without vexatious price controls. Premier in his section of the policy speech when he referred to monopolies and trade ~Ir. Power: What about South Aus combinations inimical to the public interest. tralia~ Mr. Walsh: He would not be doing anything about it. The party would not, Mr. MUNRO: In South Australia they have had a moderate form of price control either. and a good administration in other way&, lllr. MUNRO: That is the hon. mem encouraging industry. They have got on fairly ber's interjection, but I am making a point well. For all that, if I were to advocate the and I am being quite frank in my assess :J,bolition of price control I could put up quite ment. I know enough about business to a fair case. To show the strength of it let know that there are some monopolies and me quote what the President of the Brisbane some trade combinations inimical to the public Chamber of Commerce said in his address at interest. I assure the Committee that the annual meeting in 1957. While I am read where there are monopolies or trade combina ing it I do not want an hon. member opposite tions inimical to the public interest the Gov to interject that the Chamber of Commerce ernment will deal firmly with them. We are are our masters, that they give us directions, not going to be carried away by the obsession or something of that sort, because it is untrue. that because businesses are successful or Nobody gives directions to hon. members on because they are well managed and producing this side of the Chamber. But for the logic many goods that therefore they are inimical of it and to bring home some economic truth to the public interest. from people who know what they are talking about, although they might be to some slight }lr. Power: Nobody suggests you should. extent not impartial, I read this- ~Ir. lUUNRO: There was a suggestion '' The alleged benefits and protections that because we are dealing with price arising out of Price Control are illusory. control we are necessarily going to abolish There is ample evidence to show that this it entirely. system is actually working very much to the disadvantage of the people of Queensland. Mr. Davies: Will you not seek the It affects the quality of the food on our advice of the Board as to the items which tables, the clothes on our backs, and the should be controlled and which should be very homes in which we live. In time of de-controlled~ war, Price Control may be essential, but it is now a completely discredited system in Mr. ~IUNRO: Largely. It may not be Queensland. Besides retarding production, necessary for each individual item. it is costly, disruptive and often ineffective. Mr. Power: Seeing that you are going When prices are unhampered, they perform to establish this Board, why did you not their economic function of guiding and wait and establish the Board and then get balancing production and consumption. In its opinion about the de-control of fish, free markets, adjustments occur freely, fruit and vegetables~ naturally and automatically.'' ~Ir. lUUNRO: That is a very easy ques Mr. Walsh: How could you quote a tion to answer. I answered it on \Vednes thing like that against price control~ I am day last. There are some commodities where ashamed of you for quoting it. the case for de-control is so abundantly strong that it is completely obvious. ~Ir. lUUNRO: I am quoting it to indi cate a viewpoint. Having quoted it, I point Mr. Power: Do you think that the case out that it is not a completely accurate state for fish is one of those~ ment of the position just as the other extreme viewpoint put forward by the hon. member for lUr. MUNRO: Yes. The type of com Baroona is not a completely accurate state modity where the case is abundantly strong ment of the position. is where price control has never been fully effective. That applies very largely to Mr. Davies: What date was that meet commodities of which it is hard to define ing~ the quality. That applies particularly to fruit and vegetables. Take another example. Mr. MUNRO: The 97th annual meeting We have been going through all the motions held on 29 August, 1957. I quote it to indi of applying price control to second-hand cate one viewpoint, and it is a very informa furniture. How can any man sitting in his tive viewpoint because it is the viewpoint of office in Brisbane fix a fair sale value for the people who are playing such a great items of second-hand furniture of all kinds part in building up the trade and commerce in all conditions throughout Queensland' of Queensland. The real truth lies some The answer is clear. We de-control items where between the two views. where the case for de-control is clear. For 724 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Constitution Acts, &:c., Bill. items that require more careful consideration of the merits of price control we are setting up a board to advise the Government. JUr. Davies: Would you ask the Board to reconsider your decision on fish, fruit and vegetables~ Mr. MUNRO: That will not be necessary because they have been very fully considered. Even with the provisions of the Bill it is not my practice to act on the advice of only one person. There are a number of officers in the Public Service who are able to give expert advice on these matters. I can assure the Committee that before making a decision on the decontrol of fish, fruit and vegetables we had very expert advice from various sources and gave the matter very careful consideration. Progress reported. The House adjourned at 10.1 p.m.