January 18, 2007 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H751 this majority, we have had no regular we as a country choose to do that, not secrets about how this process works order. We have no rules. They did go in only do we offend and compromise our when you do not have a transparency and make a change to make it easier to constitutional protection of private that a full committee process will raise taxes. property rights, we undermine the con- have. As I said, hold on to that wallet be- fidence in our Nation and in our gov- As I told them earlier this afternoon, cause they are coming for it. They ac- ernment. I hope that my colleagues on the other tually made it easier to raise taxes on This is such a very serious step. It is side are not so intoxicated with this the American people. a step that other Nations take very power that they now wield that they They even want to get into commit- easily and yet is so significant, and yet continue this process of not having tees and not record votes so that you this major step, this change in Amer- committee hearings, not taking reg- will not know what they are doing in ican policy was done without one sin- ular order, not moving things through the Rules Committee and in some of gle committee hearing. in ways where at least we can point out the committees so that you can play This bill that was in front of us the flaws in a format and in an arena both sides of the aisle on these issues. today, H.R. 6, should have gone to four in which it can be perhaps have an im- In addition to the energy bill that different committees. Instead, it went pact on the ultimate legislation. was passed today, they also passed a to none, not one committee hearing, So I want to thank the Chair for hav- bill dealing with student loans. It is and there were new provisions in this ing us in here tonight. not going to do one single thing to help bill. There were new people on the floor f get one student into college. They were who were elected just this year who PEAK OIL dealing with interest rates after, after, have not heard the old provisions. I do you leave college. not disagree with my colleagues who The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. They decided they wanted to rework wanted to make us energy independent, MURPHY of Connecticut). Under the a Medicare prescription drug plan. but they failed in that task, and in the Speaker’s announced policy of today, Well, do you know what? Over 75 per- process, they have begun to undermine the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. cent of the seniors are satisfied with the confidence of this great Nation and BARTLETT) is recognized for 60 minutes. the prescription drug plan; and here the great reputation it has for treating Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland. Mr. they go, they are wanting to make that fairly those people who invest and Speaker, last evening we were here just one more expensive. those people who trust the govern- about this time talking about this With the 9/11 Commission, we heard ment. same subject, the subject we have been from our transportation industry, from Who else will be undercut by actions talking about for the last hour. We had companies large and small that trans- from the floor of this House and the been discussing the phenomenon port goods and merchandise that it Democrat majority that is willing to known as peak oil. That is the term would be a cost of billions and billions take any step to try to enforce a new given to a prediction that a geologist of dollars to the American public. standard while declaring it to be a new made, M. King Hubbert, working for The minimum wage bill that brought way? Instead, it is an old, tried way the Shell Oil Company in 1956. He gave about Tunagate, my goodness, $5 bil- that many other Nations have tried in a speech in San Antonio, Texas, which lion to $7 billion worth of added cost to the past. It is unfortunate to see now I believe within a decade will be recog- the small businesses, plus our fiasco this Congress and this majority taking nized as the most significant, most im- with Tunagate that was carried forth steps that Russia or Bolivia might portant speech given in the last cen- by the gentlelady from California. have taken. tury. So it has been an interesting 100 I thank the gentleman for yielding What he predicted was that the hours. They did pass their energy bill time to me. United States, which at that time was today; and as has been said, it is not a Mr. CONAWAY. I appreciate the gen- king of oil, we were producing more oil bill, Madam Speaker, that is going to tleman from New Mexico being with us than any other country. We were using make gas cheaper at the pump, more tonight. more oil than any other country, and affordable, or make the U.S. less de- On the campaign trail and in the we were exporting more oil than any pendent on foreign oil. It will make it town hall meetings throughout my other country. M. King Hubbert had more dependent on foreign oil. brief career, I have talked about Social the audacity in San Antonio, Texas, in I yield back to the gentleman from Security being basically a contract 1956 to predict that in just a bit less Texas. with ourselves, a promise with our- than a decade-and-a-half, by about 1970, selves, that we would not break that. he said that the United States would b 2130 From now, every time I talk about reach its maximum oil production, and Mr. CONAWAY. I thank the gentle- that, I will have to think about this after that, inevitably, no matter what woman for coming back from her pre- legislation, have to think about the we did, oil production would tail off. vious engagement this evening to join fact that, wow, here is a written con- That prediction came true. Surpris- my colleague from New Mexico. We are tract, much like the written provisions ingly, in 1970, some may say 1971, we just winding down. Does my colleague of Social Security, much like the writ- peaked in oil production. In 1969, using from New Mexico have another point or ten provisions in our veterans’ bene- this same analysis technique, he pre- two he wanted to make? fits, that we tend to keep but here is dicted that the world would be peaking Mr. PEARCE. Yes. I would comment one that we did not. in oil production about now. So last to my colleagues that a government I appreciate both my colleagues com- night we had come in our discussion to depends on the confidence of the peo- ing tonight. Here is one final thing. I the point that we were looking at the ple. We make promises all the time, go through the long list of co-sponsors potential for the alternatives that we and we are expected to honor those on this bill. At the end of it, it says and the world would need to turn to as promises if we are going to be a good they have introduced this bill and it we slide down the other side of what is government. We make promises to our has been referred to the Committee on referred to as Hubbert’s peak. We noted seniors. We make promises to our vet- Ways and Means, Natural Resources, that there were some finite resources, erans. We make promises to our young Budget and Rules for a period to be some nuclear resources and then the men and women who serve in the mili- consequently determined by the Speak- true renewables. tary that we will watch out for them, er. I do not think there is a stopwatch There are three justifications one that we will take care of them. fast enough that could measure the might use for moving to alternatives. But like the gentleman says, we also amount of time that this bill laid be- One is peak oil, and we will transition make written contracts and written fore those committees because they did from fossil fuels to alternatives. Oil, agreements. In this bill today, we have not work. So how those committees did gas and coal obviously will not last for- undermined the contracting process. meet, how they were able to get it ever, and as the earth at some point We have declared that previous agree- through all four of those committees runs down the other side of what we ments simply must be renegotiated or without anything happening, without call Hubbert’s peak and there is not you give up all future rights, and when any meeting is one of those well-kept enough oil, gas and coal to meet our

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00079 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H752 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE January 18, 2007 energy needs in the world, we will tran- We are now in a relatively few years will ultimately have to transition to sition to alternatives. The only ques- releasing all of the carbon dioxide that because it take a lot of energy to get tion is whether we do that on a time was sequestered in this organic mate- energy out of tar sands, and that en- scale that we control so that it is a rial over quite a long time, until we are ergy is fossil fuel energy and that re- pretty easy ride, or whether we do it as driving up the CO2 of the world, which leases CO2 into the atmosphere. dictated by geology, where it may be a in the last century or so is nearly twice So you are making a bad situation very difficult ride. now what it was a century or so ago. worse if your concern is global warm- Two other reasons for moving to al- This is what we call a greenhouse gas. ing and you think CO2 is the cause of ternatives. One is our dependence on You can get some idea as to the that and you want to transition to re- foreign oil. Today, we have only about greenhouse effect. If tomorrow is a newables, and you are going to get the 2 percent of the known reserves of the sunny day and a cold day, and if your energy to transition to renewables oil in our country. We use about one- car is parked outside with the sun shin- from tar sands and oil shales and par- fourth of all the oil in the world, and ing on the windshield, you may find ticularly in coal somewhat. You will we import about two-thirds of what we quite a warm car when you go out simply be releasing more carbon diox- use. Obviously, if M. King Hubbert was there. That is because of what we call ide into the atmosphere. But let’s look right about the world, and there is the greenhouse effect. The light that at these, because if the other two in- every reason to believe he will be right comes in from the sun, call it white centives are your incentives, then about the world, we will need to transi- light, it comes in over a long spectrum these are good bets. tion to alternatives. of wave lengths, and it goes through If you are simply concerned that we have got to transition to renewables, From a national security perspective, the glass of your car. Then it warms up then you will use whatever energy is we ought to have been doing this a long the material of your car and it reradi- available, and there is potentially while ago. A couple of years ago, 30 ates only in the infrared. Well, the enormous amounts of energy available prominent Americans, Jim Woolsey, glass of your car is pretty much opaque in these tar sands and oil shales. And if Boyden Gray, McFarland and 27 others, to the infrared. It keeps the heat in- you are concerned about dependence on wrote a letter to the President saying, side. It reflects it back, and that is why foreign oil, then this is a good place to Mr. President, and they used the sta- your car gets so warm. tistics I just used, the fact that the begin. The greenhouse gases out there, you The tar sands. Some may call them United States has only 2 percent of the may remember being in an airplane, known reserves and uses 25 percent of oil sands; they are tar, thank you. It you are 44,000 feet, and the pilot tells doesn’t flow; it is really very much like the world’s oil and imports almost two- you it is 70 degrees below zero, when thirds of what we use is a totally unac- tar. It is, I guess, a bit better than the down just below you may be flying over asphalt parking lot out here, but not ceptable national security risk. Mr. south Florida where it is very warm, President, we really need to do some- much better. If you put a blow torch on and this is because of the greenhouse the parking lot, that will flow, too, thing about that. So even if you think effect. The energy coming in from the which is pretty much what we have to that there is a whole lot of oil and gas sun heats up things in the earth, and do with the tar sands. They exist in out there, you still may be very when that heat is reflected back out, Canada around Alberta, Canada. There incentivized to look for alternatives if emanated back out, it is reflected by is an incredible amount of potential en- you are concerned about our national what we call the greenhouse gases and ergy there. There is more energy in security. CO2 as one of those. these tar sands than in all the known There is another reason to look for So there is increasing evidence that alternatives, and that is, if you believe reserves of oil in the world. we have global warming, and there But why aren’t we resting easy, then, that we have global warming, and I may be a need to move to the alter- that we have got an easy transition, a think there is an increasing body of natives because many of these alter- big source of energy? Because this en- evidence that suggests that that is natives, although they will produce ergy is not all that easy to get out of probably true, and that we are prob- CO2 when you burn them like ethanol, the tar sands. The Canadians are now ably contributing to that, although in that CO2 was taken out of the atmos- getting about a million barrels of oil a the past the earth has been very much phere by the corn plant when it grew. day. That sounds like a lot of oil, and warmer, this is in a very distant past. So you are not contributing any more it is a lot. It is a little less than 5 per- Ordinarily, the past that we are talk- CO2 to the atmosphere if you are using cent of what we use in our country and ing about is from the last ice age, a product that just last year or so took just a bit more than 1 percent of the 84 which is like some 10,000 years back. It the CO2 out of the atmosphere. million, 85 million barrels a day that is now the warmest we have ever been Now, what you would want to do in the world uses; but they are using an since that last ice age, but sometime these last 2 cases is a little different in incredible amount of energy to get way in the past the earth has been very moving to alternatives. We have a es- this. much warmer because there were ap- sentially run out of time and run out of They are mining this, if you will. parently subtropical seas in what is energy to invest in alternatives. We ab- They have a shovel there that lifts 100 now the north slope of Alaska and the solutely knew by 1980 that M. King tons at a time, they dump it into a North Sea because we are finding oil Hubbert was right about the United truck that hauls 400 tons, and then and gas there. States. We had peaked in 1970. We have they take it and they cook it, and they The general belief is that this oil and done nothing in the ensuing years. If are cooking it at the present with nat- gas was produced by organic material M. King Hubbert is right about the ural gas. They have what is called that grew in these subtropical seas, world, we have no excess energy to in- stranded natural gas there. There are that every season it matured and fell vest or oil would not be $50, $60 barrel, not very many people in Alberta, Can- to the bottom and was covered and which means we have essentially run ada, that use it and gas is very difficult mixed with sediment that was washed out of time and have no energy to in- to move long distances; and so they are off of the adjacent hills, and then that vest. using this gas to produce oil from the built up for a very long time. Finally, tar sands. with moving, the tectonic plates was b 2145 I am told, and you can be told a lot submersed down with enough pressure Now, we could buy some time and of things that aren’t true, but I am told and enough heat from the molten core free up some energy with a very ag- that they may be using more energy of the earth and enough time that this gressive conservation program. from the natural gas than they are get- finally was processed into gas and oil, Now, if your concern is foreign oil, ting out of the oil that they produce. and then if there was a rock dome over then you could also get some addi- But from an economy perspective, that it which would hold the gas, now you tional energy from such things as tar is okay, because the gas is very cheap have a very fertile place in which to sands and oil shales and coal. But if and the oil is very expensive. And I un- drill. It took a very long time to grow your concern is global warming, this derstand it costs them $18 to $25 a bar- all of that organic material and to turn will be a very bad place to get energy rel to produce the oil; and if it is sell- it into gas and oil. to invest in the alternatives that we ing for $50, $60 a barrel, obviously there

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00080 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE January 18, 2007 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H753 is a big profit there. But this natural there may be other techniques, but at ergy source that is without its draw- gas will not last forever. present to my knowledge nobody has backs. When you burn any fossil fuel, And where will the next energy come any big exploitation you release CO2 into the atmosphere from? They are talking about building of the oil shales. The one that got the and that produces greenhouse effects, a nuclear power plant there so they most publicity was this experiment by which might very well produce global will have additional energy for cooking the Shell Oil Company, and they have warming. There are potential draw- this oil. indicated it would be several years be- backs to nuclear, but so are there And they have another problem. The fore they can determine whether $60 a drawbacks to not having enough en- vein I understand, if you think of this barrel is even feasible to get that oil. ergy for your civilization. as a vein, it now ducks under a big The next one here is coal, and we will There are three ways in which we can overlay of rock and soil, so that they put another chart up in front of this get energy from nuclear materials. One will not be able to continue to develop one, because we hear a lot about coal. of them is the lightwater reactor, this by mining it which is what they And you may hear it said that we have which is the only kind of reactor that are doing now. They will have to de- 250 years, 500 years of coal. We don’t we have in our country that uses fis- velop it in situ, and I don’t know that have 500 years, but we do have 250 years sionable uranium, and there is not an they have any economically feasible of coal at current use rates. Be very inexhaustible amount of fissionable way of developing it in situ. careful when people are telling you uranium in the world. So although there is an incredibly how much we have of some resource. If And one of the big problems in this large amount of potential energy avail- it is at current use rates, you have to whole dialogue is agreement on what able there, it will take a lot of energy factor in how long it will last you if the facts are. When I ask how much fis- to get it out, so what you really need you have an increased use rate. sionable uranium remains in the world, to be thinking about is the net energy After the development of atomic en- and I guess you have to say at current or the energy-profit ratio that you get ergy, and the world was amazed by use rates, I get numbers that range out of this. that, Dr. Albert Einstein was asked: from 15 years to 100 years. We des- Who knows what new technologies What will be the next great energy perately need an honest broker to help we may come up with, what the engi- source in the world? And he said the us agree as to what the facts are so neers may be able to do, but one should most powerful force in the world was that we can have a meaningful dia- not be too sanguine that this will be a the power of compound interest. logue. savior, that we will get enormous And when you look at exponential I have thought a lot about this, and amounts of energy from this, because growth, if you increase the use of coal perhaps the National Academy of of the difficulty of getting the oil out. just 2 percent, and I submit that we Sciences, which is highly respected and The oil shales. The name might bet- will have to dig into coal much more very knowledgeable, would be this hon- ter be called tar shales, but we refer to than just 2 percent increase per year est broker. Because when we sit at the table discussing where we are and oil shales, and they are found in our over what we now use, but if it is only where we need to go, you can’t have a western United States, in Utah and 2 percent, that 250 years immediately rational discussion without agreeing Colorado and so forth. And, again, shrinks to about 85 years; and then you on the facts. But nobody disagrees that there is absolutely an incredible poten- can’t fill your trunk with coal and go there is an inexhaustible supply of fis- tial amount of oil that could be ex- down the roads. You have to convert it sionable uranium. So obviously at tracted from these oil shales, or tar to a gas or liquid. And, by the way, we some point in a few years, or a few shales. Probably more than all of the have been doing this for decades. Hitler more years with building more nuclear known reserves of oil in the world, if ran his whole military and his whole power plants, and China wants to build we could get it all out. There have been country on oil from coal. When I was a a lot more nuclear power plants, we a couple of attempts to do that. The little kid, the lamps that you now call will run out of fissionable uranium. most recent one was by the Shell Oil a kerosene lamp we called coal oil And then we will have to move to the Company, and there was some glowing lamp because it was coal oil that re- second type of energy released with nu- reports in the papers about what they placed whale oil in the lamps, and long clear fission, and that is the breeder re- did there. But there are aquifers associ- after we were using kerosene I still actor. The only breeder reactors we ated with this shale that they need to called it coal oil. ever had were those that were used for protect, and so what they do to develop But if you use some of the energy producing nuclear weapons. France this is to go in and drill a bunch of from the coal to convert the rest of the produces about 80 percent, 85 percent of holes around the perimeter and then coal into a gas or a liquid, now you are its electricity from nuclears, and they freeze it. down to 50 years with just 2 percent have some breeder reactors. The breed- So they in effect have a frozen vessel, growth rate. And there is something er reactor does what its name implies, and the oil will not move through that else to look at. Because oil is fungible it breeds fuel, so you now will have es- frozen vessel. And then they drill wells and moves on a world market, and it sentially a replaceable and therefore in the middle of it and they cook it, really doesn’t matter in today’s world inexhaustible amount of fuel. and they cook it for a year. And then who owns the oil, the guy who bids the But there are problems that go with they drill a third set of wells, and then highest gets the oil. It all moves on a the breeder reactor. It has waste prod- when they get to the bottom, they go global marketplace. And since we use ucts that you have to somehow store horizontally. They are very good at one-fourth of the world’s oil, our 50- away for maybe one-quarter of a mil- doing that now. So the oil that they year supply at only 2 percent growth lion years. Now, we have only 5,000 cooked, loosened up by the second set rate will last the world just one-fourth years of recorded history. It is hard for of wells they drilled, now flows down of 50, or 121⁄2 years. us to imagine one-quarter of a million through the shale, into the well that So the coal is there. It is the most years. Something that is so hot that I they drilled that finally went hori- readily developed, unconventional fos- have to store it away somewhere for zontal, and then they pump it out of sil fuel energy source, and we need to one-quarter of a million years I think those wells, and then they pump it for husband it. But it is dirty. You will pay ought to have enough energy in it that several years and they get a really an environmental penalty if you use it we ought to be able to do something meaningful amount of oil out. without cleaning it up, or you will pay productive with that energy. As a mat- A couple of years ago I was out in a big economic penalty if you clean it ter of fact, the usual nuclear power Denver, Colorado, speaking to a peak up. plant gets only a tiny percentage of all oil conference there, and the engineer, Let’s go back to the original chart the potential energy out of the nu- the scientist who did this little experi- we were looking at. And the previous cleus. ment cautioned that it would be sev- speakers talked about nuclear, and in- So I would like to challenge our engi- eral years before Shell Oil Company de- deed today we produce about 20 percent neers to look at a way to make some- cided whether it was even economi- of our electricity, 8 percent of our total thing good out of what is now a big cally feasible to get any oil out of the energy from nuclear. We could and problem when you have breeder reac- oil shales using that technique. Now, maybe should do more. There is no en- tors, and that is a byproduct that you

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00081 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H754 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE January 18, 2007 need to store away for very long time Once you have used these finite re- Pennsylvania. Some of the lumps were periods. sources, and they are finite, except for too big to get in the furnace. Leaning The second type of nuclear energy re- the nuclear that we have discussed. against the cellar wall was a sledge lease is what is called fusion. And we The others are finite. They will not hammer. If the lump was too big, you have a great fusion reactor; it is called last forever, then we will have only the would break it. I remember breaking our Sun, which is a mediocre star over true renewables left. They are such those lumps of coal and they would near one end of the Milky Way. By the things as solar and wind and geo- break open and there would be the im- way, if you go someplace where the air thermal. This is true geothermal. print of a fern leaf. I still get a chill is not so polluted and you look up at You may have people talk to you when I think about that. night, you can see across the sky that about geothermal and they are talking Here I am looking at something that great Milky Way. It looks like you about connecting your heat pump to grew who knew how many eons ago. So have taken a brush across the sky. the earth or a well. What you are doing I knew very well where coal came from, There are just billions and billions of with your heat pump in the summer- it came from vegetation that had fallen stars out there. time, your air conditioner is really try- and was overlaid with Earth. b 2200 ing to heat up the outside air, that is You can see coal in the process of how it cools the inside. And in the win- production, by the way, in the bogs of All of the stars are the equivalent of tertime, your heat pump is keeping England. It is not yet coal but it is on our sun, by the way. Nuclear fusion, the way to coal. And if you take it out, power plants, if you will, and we are you warm by trying to cool down the it will burn. kind of a mediocre one near one end of outside air. If you are working against ground- The sun produces most of the energy the Milky Way. We invest about $250 million a year water, and here it is about 56 degrees, that you can get from the oceans. It in nuclear fusion. I happily support groundwater looks very cool in the produces thermal gradients. It pro- that. I wish there was a technology out summertime, and it looks very warm duces the waves. How does it do that, there to and a technologist to use more in the wintertime. I remember as a lit- by producing wind. The wind is the re- money. I would happily vote for that. tle boy we had a springhouse on our sult of the differential heating of the But if you think that we are going to farm, and that is where our food was Earth, and that therefore is sun driven. solve our energy problems with nuclear kept cool. I used to wonder how does There is one big potential source of fusion, you probably have some con- that happen. energy in the ocean that is not sun fidence you are going to solve your per- In the summertime I went into the generated, and that is the tides. They sonal economic problems by winning springhouse and it was so cool. And in are generated by the gravitational pull the lottery. The gamble is about the the wintertime, it felt so warm. Of of the Moon, which lifts the whole same. course it was essentially the same tem- ocean 2 to 3 feet. I think there are huge, huge engi- perature. But in contrast with the hot Can you imagine the incredible neering challenges with nuclear fusion. summer air it felt cool, and in contrast amount of energy it takes to lift three- We have been working for many years, with the cold winter air it felt warm. fourths of the earth’s surface 2 or 3 feet and we are always about 20–30 years True geothermal is where we are con- a day. We have tried to get meaningful away from a solution. We have been 20– nected to the heat from the molten energy from the tides without a whole 30 years away from a solution for the core of the Earth. If you have been to lot of success, and it is simply because last 20–30 years. We may get there. But Iceland, there is not a chimney in all of they are so disperse. There is an old it is not the kind of thing that you Iceland because they have geothermal axiom, energy or power to be effective would want to bet the ranch on. By the and they get all of their heat sources must be concentrated, and the tides are way, we are home free if we get that. from that. anything but concentrated. They are That would be an inexhaustible source Several places in our country we can spread over huge, huge expanses. of energy, essentially pollution free ex- tap that, and wherever we can we We get some meaningful energy from cept for thermal pollution. should. It is not really inexhaustible. the tides in the fjords where because of I would like to talk about thermal The molten core of the Earth will not funneling effects you may have a 60- pollution in our power plants. We have be there forever, but it will be there for foot tide. You let it come in and then had the luxury in this rich country we millions and millions of years, so from you wall it off and let it flow out live in to put our nuclear power plants our perspective that is an inexhaust- through a generator when the tide goes away from where we live, and the heat ible source of heat so we include it out. energy that comes out of them, we dis- under renewables. There is another potential source of sipate. If you drive, you see the big Then we have a number of sources of energy from the oceans, it is not really cooling towers for the nuclear power energy from the oceans. There is huge oceans but you find most of it there, plants. What we are doing is we are potential from the oceans. The tides, and that is gas hydrites. There is more evaporating drinking water to cool and by the way, the tides are one of the potential energy in the gas hydrites I these power plants. few energy sources that are not either understand than in all of the fossil Almost everywhere else in the world, the direct or indirect result of the sun. fuels in all of the Earth, but we have whether it is nuclear or coal, no matter All of the fossil fuels that we are burn- been singularly unsuccessful in trying what it is, unless it is hydro, then it is ing, gas and oil, and all of these tar, to collect those little nodules of gas where the water is, but every other sands and oil shale were all produced hydrites and get the energy from them power plant is pretty much in the city by organic material that grew because because they are dispersed largely on right where people live, and they use the sun was shining a very long time the ocean bottom over enormous ex- the heat from that for what they call ago. panses of the ocean. Well, these are all district heating. They pipe it to homes I knew that when I was a little boy challenges. And one day when energy and businesses, and they use it in the for coal because we lived on a farm in becomes less and less available from wintertime to heat. In the summer- western Pennsylvania, and there was a fossil fuels and more and more expen- time, you can use the heat to cool by coal mine on our farm. There had been sive, some of these other sources will the ammonia refrigeration, ammonia a cave-in and they simply took the be more exploitable. cycle refrigeration system, which used mules and the people out an air shaft And then the agricultural resource, to be very popular in this country. But that had a walkout slope, and so there and let me put the next chart up here. now you have to buy one from Argen- was still some coal left. There was not I would like to start on the left-hand tina if you want one, for some reason. enough to open the mine, but we side of this because it really shows us They have no moving parts and last a partnered with a miner from the local where we are and the challenges we very long time. You can get cooling town but he opened the mine and they face. We are very much like the young out of heat. So you can both heat and drug coal with a pick and a shovel and couple whose grandparents have died air conditioning with the excess heat a wheelbarrow. So we had what was and left them a pretty big inheritance, from these power plants if you simply called run-a-mine coal. We had a coal and so they have established a life- sited them nearer where people live. furnace, as did everybody in western style, pretty lavish life-style where 85

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00082 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE January 18, 2007 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H755 percent of the money they spend comes Wind. Wind is really growing. Our I would like to spend a few moments from their grandparents’ inheritance previous hour talked about wind. The talking about energy from agriculture. and only 15 percent, some people will wind machines today are huge. You There is an awful lot of hype about en- say 14, 15 percent comes from their in- may see the blades for them go down ergy from agriculture. I read the other come. They look at how old they are the highway. They may be 60 feet long, day, and I don’t know why it took us so and how much they are spending, gee, as big as an airplane wing. They are long to find this, but in 1957, 50 years it is going to run out before they die, huge, and produce megawatts of elec- ago this year, Hyman Rickover, the fa- before they retire, as a matter of fact. tricity. They are producing them at ther of the nuclear submarine, gave a So they obviously have to do one of about 2.5 cents a kilowatt hour. talk to a group of physicians. It is an two things, or both: They have to make By the way, because we did not have incredible speech. He was so prophetic. more money or spend less money. That the proper incentives in our country, He understood that gas and oil were is pretty much where we are with en- we have now forfeited the manufacture not forever. That, I think, is obvious. ergy. of this product. Almost all I under- Maybe it is because I am a scientist, Three-fourths of all of the energy stand of the new big what I think are but probably 40 years ago I started ask- that we use comes from fossil fuels: Pe- handsome wind machines are made ing myself the question, you know, troleum, natural gas, and coal. overseas. Most are made in Denmark. since gas and oil obviously are finite, Only 15 percent of it comes from The cheapest electricity costs several they are not infinite, they will not last something other than fossil fuels. times the 2.5 cents a kilowatt hour, so forever, at what point do we need to Eight percent comes from nuclear wind machines are now really competi- start being concerned about what is power, and that is 8 percent of our tive with other ways of producing elec- left? Is it a year, 10 years, 100 years, total energy. Nuclear power represents tricity. 1,000 years? I didn’t know when I first 20 percent of our electricity. If you There are a lot of siting problems, a started asking this question. But I don’t like nuclear power, imagine when lot of nimby kinds of reactions. That knew that at some point in time the you go home tonight that every fifth is, not in my backyard. My wife says world would have to start thinking business and every fifth home doesn’t these are really bananas, build abso- about, gee, what do we do when gas and have any electricity because that’s lutely nothing anywhere near anybody, oil and coal are gone? Because one day what the picture would be if we didn’t she says is the attitude of many of gas and oil and coal will be gone. have nuclear power. So 8 percent. And these people. So there is a lot of hype about energy this is data from 2000. It is a little dif- You know, pretty is as pretty does, from agriculture. But Hyman Rick- ferent because we have been trying to and if your alternative is shivering in over, very, very astutely observed that do something since then. the dark in an energy deficient fossil as our population increased, the ground Seven percent of the energy rep- fuel world, that may be what we are would be more used for producing food resents the true renewables, like solar coming to, and wind machines may than it would be something you burned and wood and waste and wind, conven- start to look a whole lot better. I know or fermented. And he also noted, talk- tional hydro. Agriculture, here we have some people who live along the coast ing about biomass, that biomass might alcohol fuel and then the geothermal would mind wind machines if they be more valuable returning it to the that we talked about where you are couldn’t see them, so they are trying soil so that you still had soil rather truly tapping into the heat from the to site them out in the ocean beyond than taking it off to either burn or fer- molten core of the Earth. the horizon so they won’t see the wind ment. These numbers would have to be a machines. We will get some energy from agri- little bigger now, but they would have culture, but every bit of corn you use b 2215 to be a lot bigger to be relevant be- to make ethanol is corn that is not cause in 2000, solar was 0.07 percent. Conventional hydroelectric. You see, used as a food. We are well fed in this That is trifling. It has been growing at that is the biggest sector of these re- country, many of us more than well 30 percent a year so it is several times newables. We have about maxed out on fed, but tonight, about 20 percent of larger than it was in 2000. But still, it that. We have dammed every river we the world will go to bed hungry. But as is minuscule compared to the 21 mil- should have dammed and maybe some our population continues to increase, lion barrels of oil that we use per day. we shouldn’t. The migratory path of there will be less and less opportunity And 38 percent of this comes from fishes, and I saw a big article the other to use agriculture products for energy wood and that’s largely the paper and day about eels, we are now building rather than food. timber industry burning waste product. some ladders so that eels, which are By the way, there is one way we Then a very interesting one, waste to snake-like fish, can get back to their could free up a lot of agricultural prod- energy. A lot of people look at the in- spawning grounds, but there is a huge ucts for energy. If you will eat the corn credible amount of waste we have and potential, I understand, maybe as big and the soybeans rather than the pig say if we could just burn that waste, we as that, from something called and the cow that ate the corn and the could get a lot of energy from that. microhydro. And that is using the soybeans, then you could free up a lot That’s true. water flow and drop in small streams. of corn for ethanol and soybeans for As you go up into Montgomery Coun- And there you can use it without the biodiesel. The animal breeder may brag ty, they have a very nice one, I would big impacts on the environment that he has a pig or a chicken that is so effi- be proud to have it beside my church. you have when you dam up a big river. cient that three pounds of corn will You don’t even know it is a waste to By the way, if you have dammed that make one pound of pig. That is true. energy power plant. It is a nice looking river up for water for a downstream But that is three pounds of dry corn building and the train or the truck city, that will become less and less ef- and one pound of wet pig; maybe 90 per- comes in and the waste is all in con- fective as it gradually fills in with silt, cent dry matter in the corn and for tainers and you don’t even see it. and it will. And by and by, who knows sure 70 percent water in the pig. And But let me remind you that almost how many years later, there will be lit- you can’t eat his bones. all of this waste is the result of prof- tle water there because it will be most- And so on a dry matter to dry matter ligate use of fossil fuel energy. What ly filled with silt that came down from basis, it takes at least 10 pounds of dry you are really doing when you burn further up in the watershed. matter in corn to make one pound of that waste to produce electricity is you If you are just interested in elec- dry matter in the pig or the chicken, are kind of burning secondhand fossil tricity, it still, when it comes over the and probably 20 in the steer. You get fuels because that’s what was used to dam, falls the same distance. So that very much more efficient conversion of produce this waste. In an energy defi- silting in won’t really effect how much these grains and beans into good food if cient world, there will be far, far less electricity you can produce, but it will you use milk. waste because waste is a by-product of affect how much you can vary the A cow will today produce 20,000 large energy use, and in an energy-defi- height of the reservoir so as to always pounds of milk in a year with a ton of cient world we would be using nowhere maintain some reserve for producing dry matter. She doesn’t weigh a ton, near as much energy. the electricity. but you have a ton of dry matter in her

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00083 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE H756 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE January 18, 2007 milk for the year, which has very high You just go around this little pie to be there? Because without the or- food value. There is no protein that is here and you are talking about mining ganic material, the soils can’t hold the as good as milk protein. We determine the potash, and mining the phosphate, nutrients and they can’t hold the water the quality of protein by feeding young and mining the lime that makes the necessary for growing things. You rats. It may not be complimentary soil sweeter so that the nutrients can can’t grow plants in stone dust and you that the animal has dietary require- be absorbed. The diesel fuel in the trac- can’t grow plants in sand. So you have ments nearer us than any other, rats, tor, the gasoline, the liquid propane to have organic material there. For a but they do. And they are also omnivo- gas, the electricity you use is produced few years, we might be able to mine rous. And we determine how good their by fossil fuels. The natural gas you use the organic material and still grow protein is by how fast young rats grow. for drying your crops, for instance, the some crops, but there will be dimin- If you assign a value of 100 to milk custom work, the guy you hire to ishing returns. I don’t know steady protein, eggs come in at about 96, and come. state how much we can take. the meats on down. And that shouldn’t And then all of the chemicals, some- Some people are euphemistic about surprise you. God or nature, or whoever thing that we rarely, rarely reflect on. how much we are going to get from you think did it, obviously designed Gas and oil are huge feedstocks for a sawgrass, prairie grass. They see it milk to grow young animals. A 100- very important petrochemical indus- growing in huge amounts. But I suspect pound sheep will put a pound each on try. Most of our insecticides, most of this year’s prairie grass is growing be- twin lambs just from her milk. Enor- our herbicides and so forth are made cause last year’s prairie grass died and mously efficient. And eggs are very ef- from gas and oil. And this is the con- is fertilizing it. Now, we certainly can ficiently produced compared to pro- tribution they make to growing corn. get something from this biomass, from ducing the chicken that you eat. It is really, really quite large there, agricultural waste and from growing So we can free up a lot of these food isn’t it? trees and so forth, but it will not be crops for energy if we will simply eat I have been told that 13 percent of enormous. the food crops rather than processing our corn crop would displace 2 percent Let me give you some idea of what them through animals. of our gasoline. But the only fair way the challenge is. We use 21 million bar- The next chart shows one of the chal- to look at the contribution ethanol can rels of oil a day. Each barrel of oil has lenges in producing ethanol. Indeed, make is to grow corn with energy from the energy equivalent of 12 people there are some scientists who believe corn, and you can do that. But if you working all year. Hyman Rickover that we use more energy in producing grow corn with energy from corn, to used data which showed the average ethanol, more fossil fuel energy in pro- get a bushel of corn to use here, you family in 1957 used fossil fuel energy ducing ethanol than we get out of it. I have to use three bushels of corn. Re- resulting in the equivalent of having hope they are wrong. I believe that it member, the 750,000 Btu inputs to get a 33, he said, full-time servants. can be possible. But even after you million? You need three bushels going b 2230 have made the ethanol, you still have in to get one out, which means that it If you have some trouble getting all of the protein and all of the fat left is one to four. You only get a fourth of your mind around this one barrel of oil in the corn, and that is pretty good it out, which means that you are going and 12 people working all year, and by feed. to have to use 52 percent of your corn the way, that is costing you less than Just an observation about what we crop to displace just 2 percent of our $10 per person per year, think how far eat and give to our animals. If you go gasoline. a gallon of gasoline or diesel fuel, I ap- to the Orient, the main protein source So when you are hearing the euphe- preciate the chart from the previous there for people is what is called tofu, mistic projections of how much of our hour which showed how cheap oil was. and that is soybean protein. In this gasoline we are going to displace with It costs considerable less than water in country, we take the soybean and we ethanol, just remember these numbers. the grocery store, by the way. But express the oil, which is the least valu- Now, some people are even more en- think how far that gallon of gasoline or able nutritionally, and we use the oil thusiastic about what is called cel- diesel fuel carries your car and how and we feed what is left of it to our lulosic ethanol. Cellulose and lignin, long it would take you to pull the car pigs and chickens. No wonder that they particularly cellulose, we can’t digest. there. And that gives you some idea of are healthier than many of us. It is made up of a whole long string of the challenge we face. Here is a little comparison of the en- glucose molecules, which is a simple Another little example: if you are a ergy inputs in producing ethanol and in sugar; half of what we call sucrose, strong man and work hard all day long, producing gasoline. Obviously, you ex- which is a double sugar disaccharide. I will get more work out of an electric pend some energy. You don’t get all But they are so tightly bound together, motor for less than 25 cents’ worth of the energy from the oil in your gas we don’t have any enzymes in our gut electricity. Now, that may be humbling tank. You expend some of that in drill- which will release them. And neither to recognize that you are worth less ing it, in pumping it, transporting it, does any other animal, by the way. than 25 cents a day in terms of fossil refining it and hauling it to the service So, gee, you might say, how do cows, fuel energy, but that is the reality. station, and so forth. So you use 1.23 sheep, goats, horses, and guinea pigs There are two publications. We have million Btu’s to get 1 million Btu’s. make do eating grass and hay? They only a few moments remaining. I want Well, what is the story with corn? make do because they have in their gut to go quickly through some slides here. Now, you have a lot of free energy with what are called comincils, animals or We have two major studies, one of corn. You have the solar energy, the little critters that live in there, some them is a Corps of Engineers study and photosynthesis that makes the corn of them multi-cellular, some single these first few slides will be from their grow. And this is about as good as it is cells, that have chemicals, enzymes study. The second one is the big SAIC going to get. To get 1 million Btu’s of that can split the cellulose into the study, commonly known as the Hirsch energy out of corn, you are going to requisite glucose molecules and then Report. I just want to read quickly have to spend about three-fourths of a the host simply absorbs those. some of the things they said. These are million Btus in growing the corn, har- We are now able to bioengineer some paid for by our government. They are vesting it, processing the ethanol, and little organisms that can do that. So out there. You may be asking the ques- so forth. now, when you look at the huge piles of tion, Gee, why aren’t people talking Down at the bottom here is a very in- beet pulp, look at the corn fields with about this and why aren’t we doing teresting pie chart, and it shows some- all the corn fodder out there, people something about it? Good question. thing that very few people know, and are saying, gee, look how much energy This is from the Corps of Engineers: that is that almost half the energy we could get from this agricultural the current price of oil is in the 45 to 57 that goes into producing corn comes waste. You can get it by burning it, or per barrel range and is expected to stay from nitrogen fertilizer, which is now you can use it by making cellulosic in that range for several years. When made from natural gas. So this is a fos- ethanol from it. But, you know, topsoil they wrote this, by the way, it was sil fuel input. This is all fossil fuel is topsoil because it has organic mate- about 65. Oil prices may go signifi- input, by the way. rial. It gives it tilth. Why does it have cantly higher, and some have predicted

VerDate Aug 31 2005 01:42 Apr 19, 2007 Jkt 059060 PO 00000 Frm 00084 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\RECORD07\H18JA7.REC H18JA7 hmoore on PRODPC68 with CONG-REC-ONLINE January 18, 2007 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H757 prices ranging up to $180 a barrel in a Make up your own mind how much of final rule — Fluthiacet-methyl; Pesticide few years. that we are going to get, remembering Tolerance [EPA-HQ-OPP-2006-0788; FRL-8108- Oil is the most important form of en- the discussion we had earlier of the dif- 8] received December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 ergy in the world today. Historically, ficulty of getting this oil. U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Ag- riculture. no other energy source equals oil’s in- Mr. Speaker, we in the world face a 319. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- trinsic qualities of extractability, huge challenge. I just returned from sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- transportability, versatility, and cost. China. They are talking about post oil. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s The qualities that enabled oil to take They get it. I wish we did. final rule — Zeta-Cypermethrin; Pesticide over from coal as the front line energy Tolerance [EPA-HQ-OPP-2006-0769; FRL-8093- f source for the industrialized world in 6] received December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 the middle of the 20th century are as LEAVE OF ABSENCE U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Ag- riculture. relevant today as they were then. And By unanimous consent, leave of ab- 320. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- then this quote: In general, all non- sence was granted to: sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- renewable resources follow a natural Mr. LEVIN (at the request of Mr. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s supply curve, getting more and more HOYER) for today until 1:00 p.m. final rule — Approval and Promulgation of till you reach a peak and then falling Mr. RAMSTAD (at the request of Mr. Air Quality Implementation Plans; Pennsyl- vania; Update to Materials Incorporated by down the other side. And they are con- BOEHNER) for today until 2:00 p.m. on Reference [PA200-4201; FRL-8249-6] received curring, a careful estimate of all the account of attending a funeral. estimates lead to the conclusion that December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. f 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Energy and world oil production may peak within a Commerce. few short years, after which it will de- SPECIAL ORDERS GRANTED 321. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- cline. Once peak oil occurs, then the By unanimous consent, permission to sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- historic patterns of world oil demand address the House, following the legis- tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s final rule — Amendment to Tier 2 Vehicle and price cycles will cease. lative program and any Special Orders And the last one from this source: Emission Standards and Gasoline Sulfur Re- heretofore entered, was granted to: Petroleum experts indicate that peak- quirements: Partial Exemption for U.S. Pa- (The following Members (at the re- ing is either present or imminent; will cific Island Territories [EPA-HQ-OAR-2006- quest of Mr. PALLONE) to revise and ex- 0363; FRL-8263-4] (RIN: 2060-AN66) received occur around 2005. tend their remarks and include extra- December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. And now some charts from the Hirsch 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on Energy and Report. This is very widely publicized. neous material:) Mr. DEFAZIO, for 5 minutes, today. Commerce. They concluded that we would have un- 322. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- precedented risk management prob- Mr. PALLONE, for 5 minutes, today. sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- lems as we face the problem of Ms. WOOLSEY, for 5 minutes, today. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s transitioning from declining quantities Mrs. MCCARTHY of New York, for 5 final rule — Approval and Promulgation of of gas and oil and moving to alter- minutes, today. Air Quality Implementation Plans; Mary- Mr. MCDERMOTT, for 5 minutes, land; PM-10 Test Methods [EPA-R03-OAR- natives. The economic, social, and po- 2006-0904; FRL-8264-8] received December 27, litical costs will be unprecedented. And today. Ms. NORTON, for 5 minutes, today. 2006, pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the then they state, We cannot conceive of Committee on Energy and Commerce. any affordable government-sponsored Mr. GEORGE MILLER of California, for 323. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- crash program to accelerate normal re- 5 minutes, today. sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- placement schedules. They said we Mr. STUPAK, for 5 minutes, today. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s should have started 20 years before Mr. SHERMAN, for 5 minutes, today. final rule — Approval and Promulgation of Mr. SCHIFF, for 5 minutes, today. Implementation Plans; Revisions to the Ne- peaking. If it is here, we are 20 years vada State Implementation Plan; Requests too late, aren’t we? Ms. KAPTUR, for 5 minutes, today. (The following Members (at the re- for Rescission [EPA-R09-OAR-0590; FRL-8260- And then this quote: The world has 1] received December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 quest of Mr. KIRK) to revise and extend never faced a problem like this. There U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on En- is a third report out there and that is their remarks and include extraneous ergy and Commerce. by the Cambridge Energy Research As- material:) 324. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- sociates, and they believe that peaking Ms. FOXX, for 5 minutes, today and sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- will occur sometime in the future. And January 19, 22, 23, 24, and 25. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s Mr. GILCHREST, for 5 minutes, today. final rule — Approval and Promulgation of they present this little chart. This Implementation Plans; Tennessee: Approval shows Hubbert’s peak here, by the way, Mr. MORAN of Kansas, for 5 minutes, today. of Revisions to the Knox County Portion of and because the actual data points the Tennessee State Implementation Plan didn’t exactly follow his prediction, Mr. PENCE, for 5 minutes, today. [EPA-R04-OAR-2004-TN-0004, EPA-R04-OAR- they are saying that you can’t rely on Mr. JONES of North Carolina, for 5 2005-TN-0009, EPA-R04-OAR-2006-0532, 200607/ his analysis. The little peak here, by minutes, January 22, 23, and 24. 17(a); FRL-8256-6] received December 27, 2006, the way, and the next chart will show Mr. HULSHOF, for 5 minutes, today. pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Com- us, that is from the Alaska oil find. f mittee on Energy and Commerce. 325. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- Just a blip and the slide down the ADJOURNMENT sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- other side of Hubbert’s peak. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s And then in the couple of minutes re- Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland. Mr. final rule — Approval and Promulgation of maining to us, the last slide we will Speaker, I move that the House do now Implementation Plans; Tennessee: Approval have a chance to look at here. And this adjourn. of Revisions to the Knox County Portion of shows several predictions, depending The motion was agreed to; accord- the Tennessee State Implementation Plan upon whether you think the world will ingly (at 10 o’clock and 35 minutes [EPA-R04-OAR-2006-0577-20062 (a); FRL-8265- find enormously more oil than we now p.m.), the House adjourned until to- 4] received December 27, 2006, pursuant to 5 have found. And I will tell you that morrow, Friday, January 19, 2007, at 10 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Committee on En- ergy and Commerce. most of the experts that I have talked a.m. 326. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- to believe we have found 95 percent of f sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- all the oil we will ever find. That is tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s this curve. If you think we are going to EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, final rule — Approval and Promulgation of double the amount of oil that we have ETC. Implementation Plans; Tennessee: Approval now found, then that is this curve. And Under clause 8 of rule XII, executive of Revisions to the Knox County Portion of the one on top here, and by the way, the Tennessee State Implementation Plan communications were taken from the [EPA-R04-OAR-2005-TN-0009, EPA-R04-OAR- they say that they don’t believe in Speaker’s table and referred as follows: 2006-0471, EPA-R04-OAR-2006-0532, 2006014(a); peaking, but they present this curve 318. A letter from the Principal Deputy As- FRL-8265-8] received December 27, 2006, pur- which shows peaking. This is uncon- sociate Administrator, Environmental Pro- suant to 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(1)(A); to the Com- ventional oil. tection Agency, transmitting the Agency’s mittee on Energy and Commerce.

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