1 THE PRESBYTERY OF ANGUS

At , the fourth day of March 2008, the Presbytery of Angus met for all ordinary business and was duly constituted with prayer

SEDERUNT: Mr Gavin Drummond, Moderator, with the Rev Scott Rennie and the Rev Karen Fenwick, Ministers, and Mrs Linda Breckenridge and Dr Alan Fraser, Elders, and other Ministers, Elders and Corresponding Members, as per the Sederunt Book: Ministers:18; Elders:38; Corresponding members:6; Total in addition to the Moderator:62 . APOLOGIES: 15 apologies for absence had been intimated to the Clerk and noted in the Sederunt Book.

WELCOME: The Moderator extended a warm welcome to the representatives of the congregation Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden who had been cited to appear in their interests.

MINUTES: The minutes of the ordinary meeting of 5th February which had been circulated were approved and signed. The Clerk read the minute of the in hunc effectum meeting of 27th February and this was approved and signed.

ORDER OF BUSINESS: The business was arranged as circulated in the agenda.

CORRESPONDENCE and EXTRACT MINUTES: The month's correspondence was listed and available for consultation on the table. The Clerk drew attention to the following extract minute received: from the Ministries Council Finance Committee of 24 January agreeing the funding of a second day locum cover at Forfar St Margaret’s for a further six months.

DUNNICHEN LETHAM & KIRKDEN: The Moderator welcomed the representatives of the congregation. He explained the process by which this item of business would be conducted. The Rev Scott Rennie, Leader of the Ministry and Appraisal Group, presented the report. The Ministry and Appraisal Group were undertaking a necessary buildings survey of the Presbytery in order to comply with the standards set down by the General Assembly. They were in the middle of their survey of buildings with a view to compiling a list of necessary buildings in each cluster. Mr Rennie pointed out that in its Plan Presbytery had to categorise buildings as follows: a) that the building is expected to remain in use beyond the lifetime of the Plan; b) that the building is expected to be closed during the lifetime of the current Plan, under an adjustment contained in the Plan or otherwise; c) that the building is expected to be disposed of as soon as possible under an adjustment contained in the Plan or otherwise; 2 d) that the Presbytery is unable to make a determination in relation to a building; and in cases b, c, and d the General Trustees shall be empowered, at their discretion and in consultation with the Assembly’s Committee, to refuse any application made of that building in terms of Regulations I 1998 regarding Work at Ecclesiastical Buildings (as amended by 2000 Regulations VII). He explained that he and the Presbytery Fabric Group Leader had attended a congregational meeting at Dunnichen, Letham and Kirkden concerning buildings and that the Rev Mike Goss had visited separately on behalf of the Ministry and Appraisal Group. Discussion about development at Letham and the disposal of Dunnichen Church had been going on for a number of years at a series of congregational and office bearers’ meetings. These discussions now had some urgency as a survey conducted five years ago identified a number of substantial fabric issues that required to be addressed. Some of these had been dealt with, others awaited the outcome of discussions on the future of the buildings. Presbytery had also approved a Feasibility Study which was grant aided from the General Trustees. Following this survey it was clear there was no time to waste in the matter of buildings at Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden. All three, Letham Church and Hall, and Dunnichen Church were in an unsatisfactory condition. Work highlighted in recent fabric inspections had not been completed because of a lack of finance, and more recently because of a lack of clear decision making on which buildings should be chosen for investment. Work scheduled for the upgrading of Letham Church was heavily dependent on the disposal of the other sites and at the very least their removal as financial liabilities. Having surveyed all three buildings, it was the recommendation of the Ministry and Appraisal Group that Letham Church be categorised as falling under Section (a); Letham Hall be categorised (b), with the understanding that the present hall had no long term future but was expected to be replaced by the development of Letham Church into Church and Halls; and Dunnichen Church to be categorised (c). The office bearers were in agreement about Letham Church and Hall categories as above, but when asked to vote on Dunnichen being (b) or (c) they voted (b) by a margin of one vote only. There was clear agreement that there was no long term future for Dunnichen Church building within the Church of . The only disagreement was on whether to dispose of it immediately or to wait until redevelopment work at Letham was completed. However, until attempts were made to dispose of Dunnichen Church, it was not possible to be clear on what funds might be realised for the development of Letham Church. Recognising that this was not a decision that the congregation found easy to make, the Group was asking Presbytery to take the decision in order to enable the work to go ahead as soon as possible. For its future mission and ministry the congregation of Dunnichen, Letham and Kirkden needed a building in the centre of Letham that was fit for purpose. Mr Rennie moved the following deliverance: Presbytery i. agrees that Letham Church be classified under Section (a) in terms of the Presbytery Plan for buildings, that Letham Hall be classified under Section (b) and Dunnichen Church under Section (c); 3 ii. instructs the congregation of Dunnichen, Letham, Kirkden, and representatives of the Ministry & Appraisal Group to make arrangements with the General Trustees for the disposal of Dunnichen Church as soon as possible. This was seconded by the Rev Mike Goss.

Mrs Ruth Miller, Session Clerk of Dunnichen, Letham & Kirkden was then invited to address Presbytery. Mrs Miller said that there was a good proportion of the office bearers against the categorization of Dunnichen Church as (c). This building was part of the Angus countryside, close to a busy road and within the building there was ample evidence of its place within the Church of Scotland. If the church was open it was a clear witness to God; if closed there was no witness. The church was there to interact with the community, something which would happen in the Year of Homecoming in 2009. She stated that she did not think that the church was in a deteriorating state. It was the church of choice for special occasions such as baptisms, weddings and admission of new members. The Sunday School had also grown from 1 child to 7 children. 140 people watched the Nativity Service and parking and access was not a problem. The morning service often attracted the same number of people as the earlier service in Letham. Closure would result in the loss of members and would be an irreplaceable loss. A period of grace was being requested to allow people to discuss the future of Dunnichen by categorizing Dunnichen as (b). Mrs Miller requested that the Treasurer Mr Herbert McLeod be invited to speak about the financial aspects of the proposal. The Moderator put this request to Presbytery, and Presbytery agreed. Mr McLeod stated that in the past Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden could not meet its financial commitments to the wider church. Currently 68% of income went to Ministry and Mission, and he was concerned that if Dunnichen were closed, a number of members would leave and 20% of the givings would be lost. He too, asked Presbytery to categorise Dunnichen as (b).

The Moderator invited Mrs Mary Reid, Guild Convener to address Presbytery on behalf of those who agreed with the recommendation of the Ministry and Appraisal Group. She noted that the congregation of Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden had been a united congregation for about 70 years, albeit with 2 places of worship one mile distant. Some people worshipped at one or the other, others at both, and some not at all. Financial resources were limited, and they had had to rely on others to keep afloat, although financial matters had improved.

Everyone in the congregation was united in the desire to minister fully to the parish and to contribute to the daily life of the community. To achieve this, the development of the Letham buildings was critical. The last two Stated Annual Meetings had agreed to take the plans forward based on the feasibility study. Letham was at the heart of the parish with people from the surrounding area coming daily to Letham for shopping, for school, for playgroups. The congregation should worship all together in Letham. It was not possible to 4 maintain two church buildings, members were charged to be good stewards, and if the church was for the benefit of the community, money needed to be raised. Some had found it difficult to come to terms with the (c) categorization of Dunnichen Church as they had strong emotional ties to the building. However emotion must not take precedence over stewardship and common sense. People must not be bound to the past. Others in the past had been forward looking. The Moderator thanked those who had spoken. He then invited questions from the floor of Presbytery. Questions were asked relating to the cost of the proposed development and the current state of the fabric of the buildings. The Moderator invited further comment and debate. Mr Ian Morrison, Presbytery Elder for Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden indicated that he was a member of the Ministry and Appraisal Group, but had not contributed to the document which was being discussed. He believed that the decision should be left until after the linking of and Guthrie & Rescobie with Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden took place at some time in the future, when the future of 5 sanctuaries could be looked at. Dunnichen still had a great deal to offer the Church of Scotland and Angus. There was also now the option of realising funds by the sale of land near the Manse, which would raise more than the sale of Dunnichen Church. He too was asking Presbytery for time to discuss the future of the Dunnichen building. A number of further comments were made. The Rev Allan Webster spoke about the pastoral difficulties in the current situation. He also quantified the expenditure he believed was necessary to bring the buildings into a state of good repair. Essential repairs of c£50,000 at Dunnichen Church and essential repairs of c£70,000 at Letham Hall were identified by a survey carried out five years ago. None of these repairs had yet been done. Mr. Webster estimated that further expenditure of c£350,000 was now required at Letham Church to make it suitable as a worship centre. Consequently, he believed the sale of Dunnichen Church and the sale of land at the Manse would be required to raise sufficient funds. Mr Rennie replied to the debate and moved the deliverance of the Ministry and Appraisal Group. Mr Morrison moved a countermotion in the following terms: Presbytery agrees that Letham Church be classified under Section (a) in terms of the Presbytery Plan for buildings, that Letham Hall be classified under Section (b) and Dunnichen Church under Section (b). This was seconded by the Rev Brian Ramsay. If this were approved, the second section of the Presbytery Group’s deliverance would fall. The Rev Bert Reid spoke, asking Presbytery to support the Ministry and Appraisal Group.

The motion and the countermotion were put to the Presbytery, and by a standing vote there was overwhelming support for the motion of the Group, with only one vote for the countermotion and Presbytery resolved as follows: 5 Presbytery i. agrees that Letham Church be classified under Section (a) in terms of the Presbytery Plan for buildings, that Letham Hall be classified under Section (b) and Dunnichen Church under Section (c); ii. instructs the congregation of Dunnichen, Letham, Kirkden, and representatives of the Ministry & Appraisal Group to make arrangements with the General Trustees for the disposal of Dunnichen Church as soon as possible.

The Moderator thanked those who had come from Dunnichen Letham & Kirkden. Presbytery recognized that some people would be upset, but hoped that everyone would wish to move forward together. He assured those present of the prayers of the Presbytery with them as they reflected on the decision.

BUSINESS COMMITTEE: Rev David Taverner, Convener of the Business Committee, presented the report and was thanked. Items of information: 1. Presbytery Dues: All congregations, with one exception, had now paid their dues for the current session. The Presbytery Treasurer did not anticipate any difficulty in receiving the outstanding payment. 2. Forfar: St Margaret’s: i. The Rev Douglas Lamb had replaced the Rev George Robertson as Locum; ii. The continuation of second day locum funding had been approved by the Ministries Council Finance Committee for a further six months. 3. l/w Kinnell l/w & Lunan: Dougal Edwards, who had been providing regular pulpit supply to this charge, was to be appointed a pastoral assistant for one day a week. It was anticipated that a grant would be made by the Northwood Trust to meet the cost for 2008. 4. Position of Depute Clerk: Some progress had been made and it was hoped that proposals might be brought to the April meeting of Presbytery. 5. Presbytery Office Computers and Broadband: Orders had now been placed within the budget approved by Presbytery on 4 December 2007.

Items of business: General Assembly Commissions 2008: The following ministers had accepted commissions to the General Assembly: Karen Fenwick, Ben Pieterse, Brian Ramsay, Linda Stevens and Alan Watt. The following elders had accepted commissions: Jim Fairweather ( l/w ); Kathleen Milne ( Knox’s l/w St. Vigeans); Sheena Duncan ( Cathedral); Allan Boyack (Dun & Hillside); Gladys Sherrit (Colliston l/w Friockheim Kinnell l/w Inverkeilor & Lunan); and Ian Robb (Montrose Old & St. Andrew’s).

It was proposed that the following persons be appointed by application: Michael Goss and Scott Rennie (ministers) and Helen McLeod (elder). The Convener moved the following deliverance: Presbytery appoints the named Commissioners to the General Assembly 2008 Presbytery approved 6 Commission of Assembly: It was necessary to appoint a minister and an elder to the Commission of Assembly should one be called during the year. The Convener moved the following deliverance: Presbytery appoints the Rev Brian Ramsay and Mrs Gladys Sherrit to the Commission of Assembly for the year 2008/2009 Presbytery approved Change in Standing Orders: The proposed change had been tabled on 5 February 2008. The Convener moved the following deliverance: Presbytery resolves to add a new section 55 and renumber: Requests for Presbytery funding: Any request for funding from the Presbytery shall be made in the first instance to the Business Committee for consideration before being brought to Presbytery Presbytery approved FORUM TWO: The Convener, the Rev Dr Martin Fair, presented the report and was thanked. MISSION AND DEVELOPMENT Joint report with Education anent Faith Schools: The Rev Ian Coltart, Group Leader of Mission and Development, presented the report. Although the group was not making a report at present about the issue of Faith Schools, their discussions had raised a number of other issues which the groups wished to take further. They were aware that there was wide variation in the roles chaplains exercised in schools, and they were planning to send a questionnaire to all those involved in school chaplaincy to ascertain what work they were able to do within schools. The group would report back to Presbytery at a later date. The Rev Scott Rennie encouraged the group in their work regarding the role of Christianity in an increasingly secular society and spoke of the need for a considered, thoughtful debate.

National Gathering 2008 – Saturday and Sunday 3rd/4th May: A tent had been purchased and there were volunteers to staff the tent on Saturday, but more were needed for Sunday, and the group were hopeful volunteers would come forward. More information could be obtained at www.cwwresources.org.uk EDUCATION General Assembly Youth Representation: One application had been received, with the possibility of another. Presbytery agreed that the Clerks and the Education Group Leader would take this forward as applications had to be submitted by 14th March.

WORLD CHURCH Presentation: Due to the pressure of time, instead of a two way presentation on the Work Camp in Bangladesh and The Israel Bike Run, Presbytery saw a short PowerPoint presentation of the Bangladesh Work Camp. This was led by Mr Dougal Edwards and Rev Matthew Bicket. Attention was also drawn to the children’s event in the West Kirk, Arbroath on Saturday 26th April from 1.30- 4.00pm. This would have a Bangladesh focus. 7

FORUM ONE: The Convener, Mrs Elma McIntyre, presented the report and was thanked. FINANCE Accounts: The Convener reminded Presbytery that all Accounts had to be presented in the new format in order to adhere to OSCR regulations.

FABRIC Lethnot Glenesk: Edzell Lethnot Glenesk had made application to the General Trustees regarding the release of funds for the repairs to the windows of Edzell Church, and the General Trustees had approved the repairs and the release of funds, although the Presbytery Fabric Group were unaware of this until recently. Gladys Wilson, the Fabric Group Leader, had recently visited, and although one estimate had been received, in discussion with local parties, it was felt that another estimate should be sought. The General Trustees had asked in their letter of 28th December for estimates to be forwarded to them. The General Trustees had not been consulted about the materials to be used. In an effort to move this forward, the General Trustees had been contacted and a response was awaited. The Convener moved the following deliverance: Presbytery approves the release of £10,000, subject to clarification from the General Trustees regarding the materials to be used and the submission of estimates Presbytery approved

SUPERINTENDENCE Congregational Visits: The report was presented by the Superintendence Group Leader, the Rev Linda Broadley. Abbreviated reports had been circulated last month but the full reports were available for anyone who wished to see them. At the February meeting Presbytery had dealt with the reports from Arbroath: Old and Abbey and Arbroath: West Kirk. Mrs Broadley apologised if there was a feeling that Presbytery had not dealt with these reports fully due to pressure of time. Presbytery turned to the reports of Arbroath: Knox’s, and Arbroath: St Andrew’s. (The reports appear as Appendix 1 to these minutes).

Arbroath: Knox’s: The Group Leader moved the following deliverance: Presbytery i. thanks the minister and office bearers of Knox’s for supplying the information for the visiting group, and for their kind hospitality; ii. encourages the ecumenical link between the congregation and the Episcopal Church; iii. supports the congregation in the effort of visiting homes in the parish as they attempt to bring more children into the Church; iv. suggests that the office bearers look for other ways of supporting the minister in his work; v. notes the reluctance shown by the congregation to clusters and groupings; 8 vi. encourages the office bearers to avail themselves of the training/education that is now available in Presbytery. Presbytery approved

St Vigeans: The Group Leader moved the following deliverance:- Presbytery i. thanks the minister and office bearers of St Vigeans for supplying the information given to the visiting group; ii. encourages the ecumenical link between the congregation and the Episcopal Church; iii. supports the office bearers in their efforts as they visit homes in their parish as they attempt to bring more children into the Church; iv. suggests that the office bearers look for other ways of supporting the minister in his work; v. notes the reluctance shown by the congregation to clusters and groupings; vi. commends St Vigeans congregation for training a member of session to conduct funeral services, and encourage the church to use his services whenever possible; vii. encourages the office bearers to avail themselves of the training/education that is now available in Presbytery; viii. is encouraged by the starting up of the 20-40’s group, and wishes all success for the future; ix. commends all the work that is taking place on the building. Presbytery approved

Arbroath: St Andrew’s: The Group Leader moved the following deliverance: Presbytery i. thanks the minister and office-bearers for their hospitality and willingness to share in the course of these visits; ii. commends the congregation for its vision and willingness to develop its work and witness on so many fronts; iii. encourages the congregation in its outreach to the considerable unchurched population of the parish through the Havilah Project, and also in their major input to the Oyster Bar and the Angus Credit Union; iv. encourages the congregation in its visionary buildings development; v. welcomes the support and encouragement given to other congregations in Angus, through the sharing of personnel, ideas and resources. Presbytery approved

A number of comments were made about following up some of the recommendations in the deliverances and the Superintendence Group Leader indicated that this would happen. It was also suggested that the sharing of information about initiatives which had been successful would be beneficial 9 to other congregations. The Moderator commended the work of Mrs Broadley and of all the visiting teams.

ADJOURNMENT: The Moderator thanked everyone who had contributed to the meeting. He wished the members of Presbytery a Happy Easter. There being no further competent business, Presbytery adjourned to meet for all ordinary business in Forfar: St Margaret's Church on Tuesday 1st April 2008 at 7.30pm.

BENEDICTION: The meeting was closed with the Benediction.

SIGNED:______Moderator

______Clerk