Seanad Éireann

Vol. 200 Wednesday, No. 4 27 January 2010

DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SEANAD ÉIREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 27 January 2010.

Business of Seanad ………………………………213 Order of Business …………………………………213 Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Bill 2009: Committee Stage ……………………………226 Death of Former Member: Expressions of Sympathy ……………………238 Eighth Report of the Committee of Selection: Motion ……………………242 Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Bill 2009: Report and Final Stages …………………………242 Haiti Disaster: Motion ………………………………245 Visit of Cuban Ambassador ……………………………248 Haiti Disaster: Motion (resumed)……………………………248 Adjournment Matters: Site Acquisitions ………………………………265 Tourism Promotion ………………………………267 SEANAD ÉIREANN

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Dé Céadaoin, 27 Eanáir 2010. Wednesday, 27 January 2010.

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Chuaigh an Cathaoirleach i gceannas ar 10.30 a.m.

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Paidir. Prayer.

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Business of Seanad. An Cathaoirleach: I have received notice from Senator Fidelma Healy Eames that, on the motion for the Adjournment of the House today, she proposes to raise the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism to outline the Government’s range of commitments, including financial support, to enable Galway to win the Volvo Ocean Race in 2012.

I have also received notice from Senator Frances Fitzgerald of the following matter:

The need for the Minister for Education and Science to outline the progress made on the acquisition of sites required by St. Andrews and Esker Educate Together primary schools in Lucan, County Dublin, and between his Department and the Office of Public Works in this regard.

I regard the matters raised by the Senators as suitable for discussion on the Adjournment and they will be taken at the conclusion of business.

Order of Business. Senator Donie Cassidy: The Order of Business is No. 1, Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Bill 2009 — Commit- tee Stage, to be taken at the conclusion of the Order of Business and to conclude at 5 p.m., if not previously concluded; and No. 32, Private Members’ motion No. 22 re the Haiti disaster, to be taken at 5 p.m. and to conclude at 7 p.m. The business of the House shall be interrupted between 1.30 p.m. and 2.30 p.m., following which there will be tributes to former Senator Billy Kenneally. The business of the House will resume at the conclusion of the tributes.

Senator Frances Fitzgerald: The talks in Northern Ireland are due to continue later today. I hope they will prove fruitful, as it is the wish of everybody on this island that Northern Ireland find the solutions that it so desperately needs in these critical times. This week marks the fourth anniversary of the publication of A Vision for Change, the Government’s mental health strategy. It is critical that we have a debate on the document, given the very poor progress made and the lack of the ring-fenced funding promised. Service users are meeting today with Members of the Houses in the audiovisual room at 5.30 p.m. I hope Senators will be able to come along to hear their views. 213 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

[Senator Frances Fitzgerald.]

Yesterday I raised the issue of fairness in the education sector, following the cuts in the area of special needs which attack the most vulnerable. There is a lack of clarity on the part the Minister for Education and Science on the issue. How many special needs assistants will be removed from classrooms at the end of the week? What will happen to those children who need special needs assistants to integrate properly in primary school? However, the question of fairness goes further than special needs assistants. What about the changes made by the Government to the pay of public servants on salaries of €150,000? Decisions taken in the budget were reversed for the people concerned, yet the decisions taken in respect of those on salaries of €30,000 were not. Does the Government intend to address this issue and deal with the question of fairness as it affects those most poorly paid in the public service? Last night there was division in Fianna Fáil about this decision. I ask the Members of the Government parties in this House if they will bring this decision back to the floor of the Houses. The decision was taken outside the Oireachtas and after the budget. How can people believe in the budget process if they see decisions being taken in this manner which are so unfair and are taken outside the budget discussions? This is a question of fairness and transparency in decision making and involving the Houses of the Oireachtas in a meaningful way.

Senator Nicky McFadden: Hear, hear.

Senator Joe O’Toole: I agree 90% with Senator Fitzgerald on that point. The Government did the right thing in reversing the decision. I know I am in a minority position on that point. It was taken in terms of fairness for that particular group but the Minister did that group no favours by not explaining what he was doing in the House on budget day when he dealt with all the other matters. I know the way the assistant secretary grade was dealt with. People at that grade received bonuses in lieu of salary on the basis of bringing private sector rigours to bear on public sector pay scales. Last year, they got rid of the bonuses and those people effectively took a drop in salary. The most recent reduction would have been a third reduction in salary for these people. What the Minister did was fair but Senator Fitzgerald is correct. I have failed to convince the many people I have spoken to on this. This should be brought back to the Houses to explain to people how the Minister came to this decision, which I believe is correct. I ask the Leader to get a briefing on this point so that we can debate it in the House. I agree with Senator Fitzgerald’s point that this should not be done away from the budget. It needs to be properly explained. The Murphy and Ryan reports have been sitting there for months on end. I do not know where the Government is in terms of implementation. I do not know what results or consequences we are dealing with. I have raised the question of the involvement of the churches in primary schools, the connection between school patrons and clergy about whom there might be complaints and the conflict between being the school patron and the shepherd of the flock. I do not want this to be interpreted as anti-anything; it is the reality. Everyone dealing with schools, children and education should be vetted properly and correctly. The idea of not making any change and not having any restrictions or rigours imposed on patrons and chairpersons, such as bishops and parish priests who are patrons of schools or chairpersons of the boards of management, shows a lack of confidence in the system. It is not just I who say this. Clergy also say it and the Archbishop of Dublin has raised this issue. We need to see the consequences and we must ask what we have learned from the Murphy and Ryan reports and others to come. What will we do about them? It is a shame if we do nothing about this. This House could make some movement on the matter.

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Senator Ivana Bacik: We see matters going to the brink in the Northern Ireland talks. We all hope for a positive outcome later today. As a member of the Joint Committee on the Implementation of the Good Friday Agreement, I have seen an immense amount of goodwill on the new committee, formed after the previous general election, that brings together elected representatives from both sides of the Border and all areas of this island. I hope the immense positivity on that committee will pay off in terms of a positive resolution today. I echo Senator Fitzgerald’s call for a debate on special needs provision with the Minister for Education and Science. Yesterday I called for the Minister for Education and Science to come into this House for a debate on the future of universities. I am grateful to the Leader for indicating he is agreeable to having this take place. There is immense concern among academics and those who rely on the products of academia — graduates — to build our knowledge-based economy about this drastic reduction in funding of on-line journal access. This will undermine research and teaching. The Minister for Education and Science has been notable by his absence from this House.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Hear, hear.

Senator Ivana Bacik: We need him in here on a number of debates. A critical one is that to which Senator O’Toole referred, namely, the patronage of schools. Deputy Ruairí Quinn wrote an excellent article in yesterday’s The Irish Times setting forth the Labour position, which seeks change in the system of patronage and recognises that it is no longer appropriate in today’s multicultural Ireland. Senator O’Toole referred to the Murphy report and he is quite correct about the concerns it raises in respect of Catholic bishops and priests being so closely involved in the day-to-day running of schools. There is a bigger issue about parental choice. Throughout Ireland parents are voting with their feet and inundating new multidenominational schools run by Educate Together and other bodies to the point where they have enormous waiting lists and cannot cope with the demand yet there are places to spare in Catholic schools. In my area, Dublin South-East, and also in Dublin South-Central, we see an incredible misfit between the number of Catholic places available and the tiny number of multidenominational places, even though parents demand a multidenominational, more pluralist education for their children. We need to debate this point with the Minister and we need a national forum on patronage of primary schools. I ask the Leader to invite the Minister for Education and Science to come into this House to debate education at all levels.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: I ask the Leader for a debate on the state of the railways in Ireland. We discuss roads on many occasions but there does not seem to be much debate on railways. I refer in particular to my neck of the woods. I hope there will be positive news in the not too distant future with the western rail corridor opening. Over recent years there have been major improvements in the railways throughout the country. The number of trains to each of the cities has improved and speed has improved but there is still a long way to go. It still takes more than two hours for me to get to Dublin from Galway.

Senator Joe O’Toole: And the DART to Dingle.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: I do not think the DART to Dingle will happen.

Senator John Ellis: Senator O’Toole will have to go by boat.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruption, please.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: We have a fantastic new road from Galway that allows people to get here very quickly. 215 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Is that the bypass?

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: No, it is not the bypass, it is another road. Investment in, use of and management of railways has not improved to the same extent as roads improved during the Celtic tiger era. To a large extent we are talking about management rather than a major amount of investment. There is good rolling stock and good signalling systems so a good debate on railways and how we can improve them is necessary. Senator Bacik referred to patronage in schools. I would very much welcome that as I was involved in trying to help set up an Educate Together secondary school in Galway.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Which never happened.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: The issue of patronage is not properly sorted out. The school has not happened yet.

An Cathaoirleach: There should be no interruptions. Members will have their opportunity to speak.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: The Fine Gael benches are quite lively this morning. It is good to see.

An Cathaoirleach: Questions to the Leader and no interruptions.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: I support Senator Bacik in her call for this debate. It is important that the Minister for Education and Science comes to this House to debate a range of issues.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: I support Senator Fitzgerald on the point about senior civil servants. The Leader promised me an answer last week on why the Taoiseach reversed the pay cuts of senior civil servants on 23 December.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Senator O’Toole has responded.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Indeed, but I contend it was highly unfair that he favoured the elite and did not do the same for everyone else. By reversing bonuses only it does not affect their pensions. That is where it is unfair. I have though a lot about the following and have come to the conclusion that the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, is doing a bad job. There are two main reasons which I will highlight. He is undermining the value of our degrees at home and abroad by proposing to abolish the NUI. This has serious implications for Ireland as a country. Two of my degrees are from the NUI and have served me well at home and abroad, as they have served many other graduates. For €1 million he wants to cut out this office. Developing an iconic, worldwide brand like the NUI would cost far more than €1 million. Fair dues to the National University of Ireland, Galway which said that it would keep its brand name because it works well. I agree with the letter in today’s The Irish Times which stated the Government does not have the moral authority to disestablish the NUI. The opinion of the universities and their graduates must be sought before any decision is made. I ask that the Minister for Edu- cation and Science, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe, come to the House to answer this serious charge. We are having difficulties already in selling Ireland and we need to maintain our reputation rather than diminish it in this way. My second point is—— 216 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator’s time has concluded. She may make her point tomorrow morning.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: I will raise it tomorrow.

Senator Ivor Callely: I join other contributors in wishing those involved in the Northern talks well. Given that we have dealt with so many matters already, there is an understandable expectation that the two disputed issues can be resolved. I was impressed by the body language I saw on television late last night. I ask the Leader to arrange structured debates on matters relating to the economy. We know where we ended up last year and that the outlook for 2010 will probably not differ greatly in that the shortfall will be approximately €20 billion. We should be able to make a structured contribution to the policy debate on a quarterly basis. I seek a debate on the water infrastructure in the greater Dublin area. Water is the equivalent of what oil was in the 1950s and 1960s. We need to know whether we are getting value for money from our water supplies in Dublin, the cost of the necessary infrastructural upgrades and the location of alternative water sources.

Senator David Norris: Yesterday I offered my congratulations to Trinity College for hosting a meeting of the Joint Committee on the Constitution. This morning, however, I wish to withdraw my congratulations. A letter from the college’s department of political science purporting to invite me to the meeting revealed that its professors know sweet damn all about practical politics. It states that the proceedings would be on the Dáil record, even though as a joint Oireachtas committee they will be put on the Official Report of the Oireachtas. Trinity College should know they will most definitely not be on the Dáil record because its graduates send three representatives to this House, so they should be aware of the Seanad, although the department of politics appears to be blissfully unaware of this fact. The letter also makes a puff about the wonderful contributions the department’s professors make to this, that and the other.

An Cathaoirleach: Is this relevant to the Order of Business?

Senator David Norris: This is the Order of Business. I am making an important point about the insulting way in which the Seanad is being treated. I have never seen a professorial snout in the Seanad.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: What about Senator Bacik?

Senator Ivana Bacik: Do I have a professorial snout?

Senator David Norris: I beg the Senator’s pardon.

An Cathaoirleach: I do not think that is in order.

Senator David Norris: She is not a member of the department of politics.

An Cathaoirleach: That is not respectful to any person.

Senator Ivana Bacik: Even the possessor of a professorial snout.

Senator David Norris: The professors inform me in the letter about who will be on the platform. They have no right to do so and they do not understand the Constitution or Standing Orders. Every Member of the Oireachtas has a right to sit in and contribute to any joint 217 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

[Senator David Norris.] committee. I discussed this matter with the Chairman of the committee, Deputy Ardagh, who shares my feelings about it. The second paragraph of the letter announces a panel discussion chaired by John Bowman which will involve an assortment of professors, including my good friend and one of the three Senators representing Trinity College, Senator Bacik. I am one of the Senator’s biggest fans and, having spoken with her about the matter this morning, she understands my concerns. The department of politics plainly does not understand practical politics. It is proposing to invite one of three representatives of the Dublin University constituency to address approximately three hundred voters. Senator Bacik informed me that she was of the understanding that all three of us had been invited. This is quite extraordinary. I no longer intend to attend the meeting because I feel like the Victorian lady who brought her harp to the party but nobody asked her to play. Having also received an invitation to an important film premiere, I will attend that instead.

Senator Paschal Mooney: I suggest there are honourable exceptions in this House to Senator Norris’s assertion that members of academia know little about politics. I ask the Leader to arrange a debate with the Minister of State at the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government with responsibility for housing, Deputy Finneran, in light of the disturbing report in today’s Irish Independent about the housing overhang throughout the country. The figures for my county of Leitrim indicate that 2,945 houses were built during the Celtic tiger years despite a projected housing requirement of 588. The question arises of what is going to happen to these houses and ghost estates. We must consider the social and economic implications for the towns and villages which have been scarred by these developments, particularly in areas of dispersed population in the west and Border coun- ties. The report indicates that although urban areas have the highest proportion of ghost estates, higher population densities mean they will eventually be absorbed. It is frightening that more than 300,000 houses in this country remain unoccupied. I commend the Minister of State on his recent initiative to encourage local authorities to use some of these unoccupied units as social housing. This reveals his social conscience and I hope local authorities act promptly to take up his offer of funding.

Senator Ciaran Cannon: I too call for a debate on housing. The issue has been extensively covered by the media over the past several days. A rather excellent “Frontline” programme on Monday night revealed extensive research by NUI Maynooth which conclusively proves the existence of 300,000 unoccupied units in this country. The programme included a strange contribution from the president of the Irish Planning Institute, who openly admitted the housing needs of our towns and villages for the next 30 years have already been zoned. He suggested that one of the reasons for unoccupied houses is the proliferation of one-off housing in rural Ireland, which he argued has taken from the vibrancy of towns and villages. Once again, this is a confirmation of the major bias that exists within the planning profession against one-off rural housing and the rural way of life. A couple of years ago I attended a conference on this subject in Lahinch, County Clare. A Green Party councillor suggested that one-off housing and the dispersed rural way of life were not conducive to creating a vibrant community spirit, which is nonsense. The planning profession and the Green Party appear to see another opportunity to pursue their vendetta against the rural way of life. The fact that people continue to enjoy vibrant communities in rural areas is not the reason 300,000 houses remain unoccupied in ghost estates. To the Green Party, the 218 Order of 27 January 2010. Business planning profession and anyone else who wants to denigrate the rural way of life, I say hands off our rural housing and way of life.

Senator John Ellis: I express my satisfaction with something that happened last week. I made a suggestion in the House that the air traffic controllers should use the available labour relations mechanisms to solve their problems. I am delighted they took our advice the next day and went that route rather than the one they had proposed to take. This shows that no matter what one does in labour affairs, it is necessary to use the available mechanisms before any other action is taken. I ask the Minister for Transport to examine the possibility of the NRA giving some of the funds available to it to local authorities to repair national, regional and county roads damaged in the severe storms.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: He will not do it.

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: We raised the matter on the Adjournment last night.

Senator John Ellis: I do not know if the Senator was flooded and washed out but I do know that I sent him to do one job before and he did not make a very good report.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Is the Minister still missing?

An Cathaoirleach: No interruptions, please.

Senator John Ellis: Will the Minister for Transport——

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Did the Senator find him?

An Cathaoirleach: Questions to the Leader only.

Senator John Ellis: ——ask the NRA to make some of its funds available for the repair of roads mentioned? Damage to these roads affects people’s lives more than damage to any other. We all benefit from using motorways but if people are unable to go about their ordinary daily business on the roads mentioned, it makes life very tough and impossible. The cost of repairing the damage that will be done to vehicles using these roads will far outweigh what has to be spent to have them repaired.

Senator Nicky McFadden: Last night on the Adjournment I requested the Minister of State, Deputy Martin Mansergh, to set up a single agency to manage and maintain the River Shannon to prevent further flooding but the response I received was less than satisfactory. In listening to the news last night I realised that the Government had not yet applied to the European Parliament for funding for flood relief measures. I find this an absolutely appalling outrage because I understand that today is the closing date for the receipt of applications. I seek clarification urgently from the Leader as to whether this is the case because one does not always believe everything one hears in the media. I, therefore, ask the Leader for confirmation before the day is out.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I support Senator Bacik’s call for the Minister for Education and Science to come to the House to deal with the many issues raised, although I would not expect him to answer all of the questions I wish to ask. I refer to the role of the universities and raise the question of whether there are too many of them; whether there are too many institutes of 219 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

[Senator Ann Ormonde.] technology and whether there is duplication of programmes in third level institutions, as well as the role of primary schools’ boards of management. Many issues arise with regard to the future of education. I refer to the role of the VECs and possible duplication of courses, with too many academic courses as opposed to vocational courses. These are all significant issues. I do not expect the Minister to be able to answer every question but there is a role for this House to in a discussion of the future of education and how we will shape future society. I suggest we do not need to have the Minister come to the House in order to have our own discussion and a brainstorming session. As the jury is out, it would be worthwhile including in the work programme for this term an ongoing debate on many of these educational issues.

Senator Paschal Donohoe: I support the calls of Senators Cannon and Mooney for a debate on housing and, in particular, the number of unoccupied houses. I was interested to hear Senator Mooney praise the Government for having a social conscience in raising the issue. We need to be very clear that it was the absence of a social conscience and social awareness in the first place that led to this significant problem. I also support Senator Fitzgerald’s call for a debate on the reversal of the decision on the pay of senior civil servants. I wish to comment on one aspect of that decision. The award of bonuses that take the place of basic pay and which are, in effect, guaranteed is wrong for bankers, lawyers and senior members of the Civil Service. It is a bad idea that 11 o’clock leads to trouble. This is a classic example. What is most damaging is the perception throughout the entire crisis in which the country has been engulfed that people at the top have suffered least. A decision such as this gives us no option but to believe this is, in fact, true. It is vital, therefore, that we have a debate on the issue to clear up what is happening and allow the Oireachtas to make a clear point.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: I concur with the views of Senator Cannon on one-off housing. He referred to a conference he attended and the view expressed that one-off housing did not contribute to community life and community spirit, which is at variance with the facts as we know them. In Britain the village concept involves congested housing but in Ireland the tradit- ional village community was always understood to mean a dispersed community. In that context, I do not think anyone would suggest we did not have good community spirit as a result. I ask the Leader for a debate on the Irish Diaspora which was the subject of debate in the House when specific issues arose. In the chequered history of Ireland one of the most significant elements was the mass exodus of thousands of people who travelled all over the world. They subsequently proved to be a great resource for this country at any time when they were needed. This is still the case. Therefore, a debate would be worthwhile to examine the current status of the Diaspora. We know there are certain funding opportunities for organisations abroad but I wonder if we should take a closer look to see what their needs are. In one context, we are talking about members of the first generation who are still particularly deprived and very often do not have anyone to look after them. I would like to hear a report on how the welfare organisations have been responding with the funding they have received. There are other cultural and sports organisations and it would be worth looking at the role played by them. There is a danger that these issues will go off the radar, as happened in recent times. However, we need to focus on and have a debate to examine the funding and structures available and the reports on the funding invested to see if there are further ways we can help. In America these groups are coming together formally to see how they can pool their resources. I would welcome such a debate at an early stage.

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Senator Dominic Hannigan: I welcome and salute the commitments given by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs in seeking agreement with their British and Northern Ireland counterparts to solve the current problems in the North. We all wish them well. It is in the interests of the people on both islands that they reach a solution as soon as possible. I support Senator Ó Murchú’s request for a debate on the Irish Diaspora. I know there is disappointment in the United Kingdom about the proposed 14% reduction in emigrant support funding. This is greater than the cut proposed by an bord snip nua and very disappointing. It will mean that services will suffer. Already there has been an increase in the incidence of dementia among older Irish people living in the United Kngdom and also an increase in the number of Irish people being made homeless because of drug and alcohol misuse. We will see a reduction in funding support for cultural centres, places in which first, second and third generation Irish learn about their heritage and culture. It is very important that we support Irish citizens who had to leave these shores to seek a better future abroad. I join Senator Ó Murchú in asking for a debate on the subject as soon as the Leader can provide time.

Senator James Carroll: I reiterate what Senator Hannigan said. I wish the Taoiseach the best of luck in representing us in the talks on Northern Ireland. They stayed up until 5.30 a.m. The talks continued until late the previous night also. He is doing us proud. I hope the discussions can come to a positive conclusion today. I support the call by Senator Ormonde for a debate on the role of third level colleges and universities. I attended a meeting in UCD last night at which it was interesting to hear the ideas of different people. Peter Sutherland is giving funds towards a new law school in UCD. He has also mooted the possibility of UCD and Trinity College joining together.

Senator Joe O’Toole: Hear, hear.

Senator James Carroll: That notion could generate much debate and division. I know people who take positions on both sides of the argument. It is important to examine whether there is duplication and a cross-over on a number of courses provided by institutes of technology and VECs. Given the tough economic times, we are in a unique position to consider the broad range of issues that could not be tackled previously. We need a vision for where we are going in terms of third level and fourth level education, as research will provide a future for the smart economy. I call on the Leader to arrange a debate on young people and health. This morning I attended a meeting on how we could develop transition year programmes, for example, to include mini- companies and how we could focus on a broad range of issues such as the health, including mental health, of young people. I encourage the Leader to focus on these issues in the near future.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: I cannot help but think I am in a dream this morning because listening to Members opposite, one would swear they were in opposition.

An Cathaoirleach: The Senator should ask the Leader a question, not Members.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Does the Cathaoirleach agree that the Minister for Education and Science and his Cabinet colleagues are in the process of dismantling education? A total of 1,200 special needs assistants are to lose their jobs. The pupil-teacher ratio has increased and the NUI is being abolished. Cuts have been made to the leaving certificate applied programme, while the spectre of the McCarthy report looms large. As a result, morale is at rock bottom. There is no confidence in the Government to bring forward coherent education policies. In tackling the economic recession, if we are serious about the smart economy, we need to have 221 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

[Senator Jerry Buttimer.] an education system that is well financed and resourced and that will inspire young people. It is important that the Minister for Education and Science come to the House for a debate on all aspects of education, but especially on how we can protect those who need education the most and how we can look after those who will go on to higher and further education after completing the leaving certificate. Some who criticise the Catholic Church’s role in education do the church a disservice. Many fine priests, the religious and nuns have been involved in organising education and have done a very good job. It would be wrong to paint every priest and nun in a bad light because of the sins of a minority. We need a debate on education because the Government has no policy. The policy is being made up as it goes along. The Minister is like a football supporter coming out after a Munster final; depending on who he meets, it was either good or bad. We need to have a coherent support system for education. I hope the Leader will allow such a debate to take place because that is what the people demand. Members of the Green Party came into the House yesterday — Senator Ó Brolcháin may well throw his eyes up to heaven——

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: Yes, I do.

An Cathaoirleach: I call Senator Hanafin.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Senator Boyle spoke in the House yesterday about the increase in the number of teachers.

An Cathaoirleach: Time, Senator.

Senator Jerry Buttimer: Members should go to schools to see the number of teachers employed and look at the rise in the pupil-teacher ratio.

Senator John Hanafin: I support the call by Senator Callely for a rolling debate on the economy. I am especially mindful of the fact that the United Kingdom experienced low growth in the last quarter of 2009. This followed growth in the economies of Germany, France and the United States. The reports on the world economy for 2010 project increased growth rates from 3.1% to 3.9%. In other words, the world economy is coming out of recession. Having dealt with the issues that confronted us last year, namely, the budgetary position, NAMA and ensuring we had a stable banking system, the House could well turn its attention to the major difficulty of providing jobs in this growing economy. Looking towards the future, there are many fine ideas expressed in this House. I have heard such positive suggestions made previously about the use of finance to project our exports abroad and to provide for jobs-based growth. I ask the Leader to seriously consider arranging a rolling debate on job creation during this term.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I support the calls of previous speakers for a debate on the overhang of housing. It is important that we have such a debate with the Minister of State with responsibility for housing. The Leader will have seen recent coverage on unfinished estates and the seriously substandard infrastructure in many estates in communities around the country. Resi- dents and communities are in despair trying to find someone to take on the responsibility of dealing with the problem of unfinished estates. Local authority officials are shrugging their shoulders. Developers are long since gone and the Government claims to have no role in addressing the problem. It is not good enough that we isolate and desert citizens in this way. It is important that we face up to the fact that there are problem areas in our communities and 222 Order of 27 January 2010. Business that we need to do something about the matter. We should let people know where they stand. They might not like what they hear but it is important that we are upfront. We need to tell them what the problems are and how we can solve them. We could do a job in this House by addressing that problem by way of providing adequate time and resources and getting the relevant Ministers to come to the House to see whether we can find a solution to the problem of unfinished estates. This is a genuine call for the House to address the matter. We have the time to consider it and can make ourselves relevant. Let us find the solutions to help the residents affected who are to be found in every community, county and city.

Senator Maria Corrigan: I refer to A Vision for Change. As I indicated previously, 2010 will be a landmark year for mental health services. The Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, is to be congratulated on securing an extra €43 million for the services, in addition to separate funding for the provision of a new national central mental hospital. I welcome the Leader’s commitment to bring the Minister before the House in February. Would it be possible for the timing to be arranged a little differently? Last year the Leader introduced a question and answer session following statements by Ministers. On 1 March the Minister intends to outline the implementation plan and how he will proceed with it for the remaining four years of A Vision for Change. It is clear that given the level of funding now agreed, that this will be momentous and bring about significant benefits in terms of the quality of service we provide. In restructuring the time available when the Minister comes before us, will the Leader make provision for a longer question and answer session? That would allow for a much more inter- active session which I believe the Minister would welcome. It would benefit and inform his plans for implementation of A Vision for Change.

Senator Paul Coghlan: We continuously read that we will have an election for a directly elected mayor in June, yet, as we know there is no mention of it in the Bills to be published this session. Perhaps the Leader might enlighten the House on the matter. Given that we are at the end of January, does the matter have Government approval? Is it envisaged that we will encompass the existing four local authority areas in Dublin, each of which has its own mayor and council? As I understand it, the mayor will not have a council, yet from what we read, it is envisaged that he or she will have executive powers. What will those powers be? We need detailed information. Given the paucity of information made available in response to my query yesterday about the incinerator in Poolbeg, I am slightly hesitant to ask the Leader, as I might not get very far, but we in this House rely on him to act as a conduit between the House and the Government in providing this vital information. I would like to hear from him on the matter. In following up on the matter raised yesterday, will he arrange for the Minister for the Environment, Heri- tage and Local Government to come to House at an early stage to debate the matter?

Senator Camillus Glynn: I support Senator Corrigan’s remarks on A Vision for Change and want to add to them in congratulating the Minister of State, Deputy John Moloney. The policy document, A Vision for Change, has been with us for some time. It contained a vision but, up to now, there was certainly no change. It was the same service, different date. Fair play to the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, for acquiring €43 million in funding, which will make a significant difference. On the day when that debate takes place, I hope we will have an opportunity to refer to the most recent report of the Inspector of Mental Hospitals and his views on a number of psychi- atric hospitals throughout the country, including St. Loman’s Hospital in Mullingar. I have been speaking to people in Mullingar in recent weeks. The inspector made particular reference to the condition of St. Loman’s Hospital. However, he forgot to mention that a request was 223 Order of 27 January 2010. Business

[Senator Camillus Glynn.] made on several occasions by nurse management and hospital management for the upgrading of services, which was not forthcoming. It is wrong to blame the people providing the service there, including medical, nursing and other grades. Their duty is to look after the residents; they are not painters, decorators, carpenters or plasterers.

Senator Maurice Cummins: Perhaps the Government will provide the money.

Senator Camillus Glynn: I commend the inspector for bringing forward the report but it should have clarified this point. I make the point today and I will make it again when the Minister comes to the House. I look forward to that day.

Senator Donie Cassidy: Senators Fitzgerald, O’Toole, Bacik, Callely, Hannigan and Carroll wished the Taoiseach, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, the British Prime Minister and all the leaders in the North of Ireland well. Their determination to get to a successful conclusion by sitting until 5.30 a.m. shows the people of the world that at this time a historic page is being written for our country and the island of Ireland. As a supporter of the Good Friday Agreement and a member of the British-Irish committee, I look forward and hope that this historic occasion and the decisions that are being taken will be lasting for peace and, at the end of it all, the generations of the future will benefit from the serious deliberations of the leaders of all the parties in the talks in Northern Ireland at present. Senator O’Toole called for further debate in regard to the Murphy and Ryan reports, as did Senator Bacik, in regard to school patronage, Garda vetting and everything concerned with the running of our schools. I do not want to let the occasion pass without paying tribute to the clergy and all they have done in very bad times from the Famine days until now, and the total commitment they have given of their time and energy in helping and assisting in this regard. Whatever the way forward will be for our educational institutions is for the Legislature, Oireachtas Members and parents in particular to decide. However, what the clergy have done has been unbelievable in regard to the commitment to educating young boys and girls of generations past. Senators Mooney, Cannon, Ó Murchú, Coffey and Donohoe called for a debate on housing and asked that the Minister would come to the House. Reference was made to the opportunity that has presented itself due to the downturn in the economy, in particular for first-time house buyers. There is an opportunity to take a leap of faith given that first-time buyers can now purchase a house for 40% to 50% of the price those homes were two years ago. There is a huge stock of houses to be sold, quality homes in most cases, and first-time buyers in particular have a terrific opportunity to buy them given that interest rates are low. I agree with the sentiments expressed in regard to unfinished estates. Some 12 years from the time of planning to the time the developer is answerable is far too long. We must examine our planning regulations in this regard. If the estates are phased, the first phase should not be allowed to be inhabited until the second phase is totally completed. As good legislators, which we all like to think we are, given the experience we have had in recent years, the area of planning regulations is one we have to tighten up. I am pleased to note that Westmeath County Council last Monday de-zoned land in the town of Mullingar. There are those who have had zoned land for the past 15 years, or more in some instances, but did not put one block on top of another. The council decision is a shining example of good county management and a good county council. Senators Fitzgerald, Corrigan and Glynn called for the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, to come to the House to discuss A Vision for Change. Senator Corrigan has been leading the way in this regard, ably backed by Senators Fitzgerald and Glynn today. I watched the Minister 224 Order of 27 January 2010. Business of State’s performance on television last night. The €43 million extra received in the budget must be commended. I will take on board Senator Corrigan’s proposal that we have a longer period of time for a question and answer session, if the Minister of State is agreeable. I have no difficulty in this being extended and I welcome it because a longer question and answer session is what all Members want to see from our Ministers. With regard to the debates and deliberations in regard to the future of where we are going in this area, the Minister of State, Deputy Moloney, must be congratulated. He is transforming and determined and is making a huge change and giving a serious amount of hope in this portfolio area. Senators Fitzgerald, Bacik, Ó Brolcháin, Healy Eames, Ormonde, Carroll, Buttimer and O’Toole called for the Minister for Education and Science to come to House for a broad debate in regard to all of the education sectors, whether it is primary and vocational schools, ITs, universities or other areas of education, as was said this morning by many of our colleagues who are real experts in the field of education. I spoke with the Minister again yesterday in this regard. He is very agreeable to coming to the House to have a full debate on all education issues and to have a question and answer session following that. I will endeavour to have this take place in the month of February. Senators O’Toole and Healy Eames brought certain issues to my attention. The Finance Bill will be published in the next day or two, as we all know. We will all have an opportunity to discuss the indications of that Bill, which will be in the Dáil next week. Given all the issues that have been raised this morning, we can consider the Government’s up to date proposals on the Bill and take the debate from there. Senator Ó Brolcháin called for a debate on the state of our railways and referred to further investment in rolling stock. Looking back over the past ten to 15 years, my predecessor in this position and my constituency colleague, Deputy Mary O’Rourke, when Minister got huge investment into all areas concerning the railways. We are seeing the benefit of this today, including the magnificent carriages and all the up to date facilities available when travelling by train. As Senator Ó Brolcháin said,rail services are now battling with dual carriageway systems, whether it be on the Dublin to Cork, Dublin to Galway or Dublin to Limerick routes. There has been a transformation in provision of good rail and road services for the travelling public. Senators Callely and Hanafin called for a rolling debate on the economy, particularly in the context of jobs and the current economic position. The Finance Bill will provide Members with such an opportunity in the next few weeks. Senator Callely also called for a debate on water costs, the imposition of water charges and the challenge faced in terms of managing our water supply. It is mindboggling that 100% of the water used is treated given that only 15% of it is used for drinking purposes. We do not need to treat the water supply that is used for other purposes. The cost of such treatment will have serious implications. We will have a debate on this at the earliest possible time. I noted Senator Norris’s comments about Standing Orders in terms of the forthcoming hosting by Trinity College of the meeting of an Oireachtas committee. I fully agree with most of the sentiments he expressed. Senator Ellis spoke about the use of the labour relations mechanisms in the air traffic controllers dispute. I am delighted to support the views expressed by the Senator, a long-standing Member of this and the other House. I wish everyone well in their deliberations and congratulate them all on the responsible way they acted when the challenge was laid down. Senator Ellis also suggested that the Minister for Transport should reallocate part of the NRA funding for the repair of rural county roads which suffered damage during the recent inclement weather, whether due to flooding, severe frost or snowfalls in some parts of our country. All county councils are undertaking an appraisal of the state of repair of roads in their 225 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

[Senator Donie Cassidy.] areas. Westmeath County Council will need an extra €2.5 million for such works as roads were badly affected and I am sure every council will require similar additional funds. The Senator’s suggestion is worthwhile and I will pass it on to the Minister for Transport. Senator McFadden raised the issue of putting in place an action plan for the River Shannon and the application to the EU for flood relief, today being the last day for its submission. The Government will be availing of this application. We need it as a matter of urgency because of the serious implications of the recent flooding for people in the Cork area and in the Shannon area, from Westmeath down to the Banner county of Clare. Major funding will be required to assist those unfortunate people who were driven out of their homes at only a few minutes’ notice. We are interested and concerned about the long-term plan for the River Shannon and I have no difficulty in putting the weight of the membership of this House behind the application to the Minister in this regard. Senators Ó Murchú and Hannigan called for a debate on the Irish diaspora, a subject that is near and dear to all of us who have been working for a very long time with people in Irish societies throughout the world. Government funding for the Irish abroad has maintained the wonderful work that has been carried out. I refer in particular to the 110 Irish associations in the UK, which look after the needs of the elderly Irish there, and to the great work that has been carried out by the Irish organisations throughout the United States, Canada and Australia over the years. The Government has facilitated the setting up of the Irish American Council, which has brought together the leaders of Irish Americans to further the interests of Ireland in cultural and economic fields. Irish leaders in the world of commerce and Irish diaspora leaders throughout the world attended the event in Farmleigh last autumn to examine what could be done to assist Ireland in its hour of need. We must acknowledge, be grateful and thank all who assisted our country at that tremendous three-day event. I have no difficulty in having a debate on this subject and I thank Senators Ó Murchú and Hannigan for bringing it to my attention for our consideration. Senator Coghlan raised the issue of a directly elected mayor for Dublin. I will make inquires about this. It is a matter with which we will have to deal. I am aware that one or two colleagues on the Opposition benches are seriously considering putting their names forward and I wish them well.

Senator Paul Coghlan: Do they have the Government’s approval?

Senator Donie Cassidy: I will appraise the House on this matter and I thank the Senator for raising it on the floor of the House for our consideration.

Order of business agreed to.

Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

Section 1 agreed to.

NEW SECTION. An Cathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister to the House. Amendments Nos. 1, 2 and 5 are related and may be discussed together.

Government amendment No. 1: In page 3, before section 2, to insert the following new section: 226 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

2.—In this Act— “Commission” means Commission for Communications Regulation; “Principal Act” means Communications Regulation Act 2002.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I apologise for my delayed arrival. Most of the amendments I hope to move are of a textual nature rather than being substantive changes. Amendment No. 1 is an example of this. We are seeking to apply the definition of “Commission” to the whole Bill rather than just Part 2, which deals with the regulation of premium rate services. The definition of “Commission” is appropriate to the whole Bill.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 2 deleted.

SECTION 3.

Government amendment No. 2: In page 4, to delete line 8.

Amendment agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 3 and 4 are related and may be discussed together by agreement.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 3:

In page 4, line 22, to delete “(other than a broadcasting service)”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: We have had long discussions in this and the other House on whether we should have a single regulatory agency for both telecommunications and broadcasting or separate regulators, which is the current approach. I stand by the position we have taken, while recognising that it is a point for valid discussion. I am keen that we get on and establish regulation of premium rate services. The problem is that the current body, Regtel, which is neither the communications nor the broadcasting regulator, does not have the powers that are needed. The aim of this Bill is to make those powers statutory and protect the public from inappropriate commercial behaviour. The wider issue of regulation of communications and broadcasting can be aired again on other occasions; however, I cannot accept these amendments to the Bill.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 3, as amended, agreed to.

SECTION 4.

Amendment No. 4 not moved.

Government amendment No. 5: In page 5, line 19, to delete subsection (2).

Amendment agreed to. 227 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

Section 4, as amended, agreed to.

Section 5 agreed to.

SECTION 6.

An Cathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 6, 7 and 21 to 24, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together by agreement.

Government amendment No. 6: In page 7, subsection (2)(d)(i), lines 9 and 10, to delete “the services are” and substitute “each service is”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: These are minor textual amendments which have been agreed with the Parliamentary Counsel to provide consistency in the wording in section 6(2) and section 15(2). It is to ensure standardisation of language. In certain sections we have used the words “each service is” and we are seeking to standardise the terminology rather than change the meaning substantively.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 7: In page 7, subsection (2)(e), line 21, to delete “the” where it secondly occurs and substitute “each”.

Amendment agreed to.

An Cathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 8, 13, 15 and 16 are related and may be discussed together by agreement.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 8:

In page 8, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following new subsection:

“(11) The Commission may give a direction to a network operator that is necessary or expedient for the performance of the functions of the Commission, and the network operator shall comply with the direction.”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I do not propose to accept amendment No. 8. There is a need to balance the power of the commission to regulate with the rights of the persons being regulated. The Bill, as drafted, strikes this balance. It provides the commission with the power to set conditions to a licence that may be complied with and with effective powers to deal with non- compliant service providers. There is certainty about what is expected of service providers once they are licensed to provide a service. The proposed amendment would remove that certainty. If the commission wishes to add additional conditions to a licence it may do so under regulations made by it under section 5.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 6, as amended, agreed to.

228 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

SECTION 7.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 9:

In page 8, subsection (1)(a), line 28, after “section 6,” to insert the following:

“or the class or type of premium rate services which do not require to be so licensed”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I am afraid the proposed amendment cannot be accepted. In drafting the Bill consideration was given to allowing ComReg to make an order exempting classes of premium rate services from the requirements to be licensed. In order to provide for exemptions from this requirement the legislation would need to be clear about the types of service that would be exempted. In discussing this with the Attorney General’s office, the advice was that from a legislative perspective it would be preferable to empower ComReg to specify by regulation which service was required to be licensed and the current provision in the Bill was suggested. This approach also provides certainty for existing and intending premium rate service providers about the types of premium rate service for which they will require licences, and will reduce the regulatory burden on the sector. As a regulator of the sector, ComReg will be in touch with developments in the sector through its association with other regulators and its ongoing engagement with the industry; it will therefore be in a position to foresee any new developments that may lead to new types of premium rate service being offered to the public and will have the knowledge and expertise to specify in regulations the type of services that are required to be licensed.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 10 and 14 are related and may be discussed together by agreement.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 10:

In page 8, between lines 36 and 37, to insert the following new subsection:

“(2) It shall be a condition of a licence under section 6 that—

(a) the premium rate service provider shall ensure that any service of an ongoing nature may be readily terminated by the user at any time, and in the case of a service provided by SMS, the user may terminate the service at any time by sending “stop” in reply to any SMS received,

(b) where a premium rate service provider fails to comply with paragraph (a) in any particular case, he or she shall refund the user in accordance with and subject to regulations under subsection (1) and shall pay the user compensation in accordance with and subject to such regulations.”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I regret I will not be able to accept the proposed amendments. As I stated during the debate on the same amendment on Committee Stage in the Dáil, it would not be appropriate to set out the terms and conditions of a licence in primary legislation. The advice from the Attorney General’s office is that the type of detail proposed in the Senator’s amendments is more appropriate for inclusion in secondary legislation. To specify such detail in a Bill is neither appropriate nor desirable. Conditions of a licence may vary over time and different conditions will apply to different classes and types of premium rate service. Conditions 229 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

[Deputy Eamon Ryan.] including any requirements with regard to refunds will be set out in regulations made by Com- Reg under section 7 of the Bill and will also be included in the code of practice to be published by ComReg under section 15.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I thank the Minister for his reply. The system by which people terminate such messages is not too effective, and there are particularly vulnerable categories of people. For example, a person who is not up to speed with mobile phone technology may inadvertently subscribe to some type of service. There are cases, of which I am sure the Minister is aware, in which one finds all of a sudden that one’s phone credit has been used up. In using a strategy such as this one still ends up connected to the service and in receipt of text messages, which is expensive. This is grossly unfair and, in some cases, sneaky. I appreciate the Minister’s reply and will withdraw the amendment on the basis that I will resubmit it on Report Stage.

Senator Jim Walsh: I refer to amendment No. 14. There is merit in Senator McCarthy’s contribution. Many are not au fait with the manner in which these charges apply. We have witnessed people being taken advantage of, people who lack knowledge of services in which they are invited to participate and the costs they incur in many industries. The time has come to err on the side of the consumer rather than the supplier. I would, therefore, like the Minister to examine this issue further. With regard to banking and other sectors, an acknowledgement, apology or a refund is not sufficient subsequently. Sanctions are needed against individuals and commercial entities, in particular, which may have a policy of taking advantage of sections of society which may not be as literate as they are regarding the various services they offer and the costs pertaining to them. Sanctions would build in inhibition on the part of companies in taking advantage of people, particularly those who are vulnerable or ignorant of what they are signing up to. I would like the Minister to examine this issue. They should be sanctioned and the sanctions should be set at a level that would provide a clear disincentive for a company to do this.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I agree with both Senators on the importance of having effective sanctions and we are seeking to do this. A code is in place under RegTel but the difficulty is that it is not enforceable. We are legislating to give legal powers for that to happen both in regard to the ability to stop unwanted services and to obtain refunds. A number of sections provide for such conditions to be part of the licence arrangements and the requirements of the operator. In failing to meet them an operator will be liable to further sanctions up to revocation of its licence. We are including powers to stop the scams about which we all hear from constitu- ents and to give them the ability to stop services they do not want, to obtain refunds and to seek redress where they have been scammed.

Senator Jim Walsh: I take on board fully the Minister’s comments. I have referred to companies which deliberately take advantage of premium rate numbers. Provision should be made for a financial sanction that would make it unprofitable for them to succumb to this temptation. A refund is not a great disincentive because the company will succeed in many instances as only one or two consumers will take up the issue with it and be refunded. The principle underpinning exemplary damages could be considered by the Minister. Perhaps he is correct that there is sufficient discouragement in the current framework but, in many areas, a significant financial penalty should be imposed as an intermediate step before revoking the licence where it has been clearly illustrated somebody following company policy deliberately decided to take advantage of a consumer.

230 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I agree. Section 12 addresses services provided without a licence, which are unregulated, and provides for fines of up to €250,000, while section 32 provides for fines of €5,000 on summary conviction for someone who has committed an offence. These fines are necessary as a backup to the codes we are putting in place.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is the amendment being pressed?

Senator Michael McCarthy: No, I will resubmit it on Report Stage.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 7 agreed to.

SECTION 8.

Government amendment No. 11: In page 9, subsection (1), line 14, to delete “the premium rate services” and substitute “any premium rate service”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: The amendment was agreed with the Parliamentary Counsel. The intention of the provision is that if one or more services provided under a licence is causing harm to consumers or may cause potential harm to consumers, the licence covering all services may be suspended pending an investigation by ComReg. The amendment clarifies that intention.

Amendment agreed to.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 12:

In page 9, subsection (1), line 16, after “application” to insert “(which may in cases of urgency be made ex parte)”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: The amendment is not accepted. To ensure fair procedure the section provides that the licensee be notified prior to making an application to the High Court but to make the application ex parte would go against this provision. Following debate on the amendment on Committee Stage in the Dáil, I received clarification from the Attorney General’s office that the notification procedure would not unduly delay an application to the court. The common law allows an ex parte application to be made where it is considered that the circumstances justify such an application. Whether provided in legislation, it is a matter for the court to decide whether to hear the application without the other party being put on notice or present.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 8, as amended, agreed to.

Amendment Nos. 13 and 14 not moved.

Section 9 agreed to.

Amendments Nos. 15 and 16 not moved.

Section 10 agreed to.

Section 11 agreed to. 231 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

SECTION 12.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 17:

In page 11, subsection (1), line 2, after “licence” to insert “or who infringes the terms of a licence”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I do not propose to accept the amendment. As a matter of policy, it is not considered appropriate that the breach of a condition of a licence should be an offence. The powers in the Bill to ensure compliance with the conditions are adequate for the purpose. The possible revocation, suspension or amendment of a licence under section 10 provides a strong incentive for service providers to be in compliance. The offence provision for operating an unlicensed premium rate service is intended to incentivise intending premium rate service providers to obtain a licence for such services.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Section 12 agreed to.

SECTION 13.

Amendment No. 18 not moved.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 are related and may be discussed together.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 19:

In page 11, between lines 23 and 24, to insert the following new subsection:

“(2) Where a premium rate service provider contravenes subsection (1), the Commission shall establish a speedy mechanism to ensure redress for the consumer.”.

Protection of the consumer is at the heart of these amendments. Bearing in mind Senator Walsh’s worthwhile contribution, it is important that we seek to protect consumers and address appropriately instances where they clearly have been taken advantage of through blatant black- guarding. I will understand if the Minister cannot take the amendments on board but I will revisit the issue on Report Stage. I do not mean to take for granted his imminent response to the amendment.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I reiterate much of what was said on the earlier amendment about the need for serious sanctions to be applied when service providers abuse their positions. I appreciate that the statistics for premium rate charges were discussed at length on Second Stage. However, I remind the House that premium rate services on fixed lines and, in particular, mobile devices represent an industry that was worth €95 million last year. In 2008 Irish people received 76 million chargeable premium rate text messages. In the last year the number of complaints to Regtel has increased by four times, from 1,700 to 6,000. It is obvious, therefore, that there are abuses. Senator Walsh is right to say we need to consider the rights of consumers. Serious sanctions need to be provided to ensure service providers do not abuse their positions or take advantage of consumers who might not be fully aware of the extent of the services they receive. This section of the Bill sets out the sanctions that will apply to those who provide unsolicited services, overcharge unsuspecting consumers or charge for services that are not provided. The 232 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage. proposed fine of €5,000 is small buttons to some service providers, especially in the context of the statistics I have mentioned, which show that huge incomes are being generated. I do not suggest all premium rate service providers are abusing the system. It is obvious that the vast majority provide very good services at reasonable rates. Equally, however, it is obvious that the small number of service providers which prey on vulnerable consumers will not want serious sanctions to be put in place. That is why Fine Gael is proposing that the fine be increased from €5,000 to €20,000. If that kind of stick hangs over any service provider which intends to abuse its position, it will not hesitate about rolling back. The amendment is an attempt to protect consumers by introducing serious sanctions. It is, therefore, well worth considering and I suggest the Minister should accept it.

Senator Jim Walsh: The amendment relates to the sanctions imposed when premium rate service providers charge rates in excess of the published amounts they stated they would charge. It could be suggested such an offence would represent a second breach of the law in this area. These charges are imposed on consumers by commercial entities. I would restrict the imposition of premium rate charges to circumstances in which money is raised by charities for good causes. However, one is allowed to impose such rates for commercial purposes. The charges in question can be exorbitant, as one can see when one watches certain television channels at night. They are excessive. They are significant multiples of the actual cost of telephone calls and text messages. A real deterrent should come into force when charges go above a certain level. There should be a link between the extent of the fines and the moneys being generated from these enterprises. I suspect that the latter amounts are colossal. Therefore, a fine of €5,000 is probably not a great deterrent. I ask the Minister to examine the matter. I am not absolutely certain of the extent of the revenues being accrued. I suggest the fine imposed 12 o’clock on a company should relate in some way to its overall revenue from premium rate services, as there should be a built-in deterrent. If, as I suspect, €5,000 is a minuscule proportion of what each company generates, it cannot be said to be a deterrent. Sufficient deterrents are needed to ensure the code of ethics is complied with fully. I suppose I am betraying a certain suspicion of the operators of many of these services but an element of profiteering is a feature of this industry. Although some are starting to learn more about some aspects of it, others are being exploited by virtue of a lack of awareness on their part of what precisely they are getting themselves into.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I am afraid I cannot accept the amendment, although I accept the intentions of the Senators who tabled it. With regard to amendment No. 19, I remind the House that a mechanism for speedy resolution is provided for in section 44 of the principal Act which states that if a person or company which is alleged to have committed an offence remedies it “to the satisfaction of the Commission” within 20 days of being notified of the alleged offence, the matter giving rise to that offence will not result in prosecution. If the person or company wishes to have the matter remedied without being prosecuted, they will have to repay the amount owed and make a further payment of €1,500 to the commission. That mechanism applies to all summary offences under the principal Act. It will also apply to this Bill when enacted. I take the Senators’ point about the importance of putting strong measures in place to deter companies from engaging in fraudulent activity. A range of measures, from fines to the revocation of licences, is available. I will consider what the Senators have said and come back to them at a later stage. The existing system has been designed to take account of the revenue flows in this sector. The implications for businesses of not only having to repay money, but also having to pay fines are significant. There is also the backup threat of having one’s licence 233 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

[Deputy Eamon Ryan.] discontinued. If one operates without a licence, one can face fines of up to €250,000. I suggest the various stages of this process offer a certain protection against fraudulent behaviour.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I move amendment No. 20:

In page 11, subsection (2), line 26, to delete “€5,000” and substitute the following:

”€20,000 and shall be obliged to re-emburse any or all end users in full as appropriate under subsection (1)(a), (b) and (c)”.

Question put: “That the figure proposed to be deleted stand.”

The Committee divided: Tá, 27; Níl, 16.

Tá

Boyle, Dan. McDonald, Lisa. Brady, Martin. Mooney, Paschal. Butler, Larry. Ó Brolcháin, Niall. Callely, Ivor. Ó Murchú, Labhrás. Carroll, James. O’Brien, Francis. Carty, John. O’Donovan, Denis. Cassidy, Donie. O’Malley, Fiona. Corrigan, Maria. O’Sullivan, Ned. de Búrca, Déirdre. Ormonde, Ann. Ellis, John. Phelan, Kieran. Feeney, Geraldine. Ross, Shane. Glynn, Camillus. Walsh, Jim. Hanafin, John. Wilson, Diarmuid. MacSharry, Marc.

Níl

Bacik, Ivana. Donohoe, Paschal. Bradford, Paul. Fitzgerald, Frances. Burke, Paddy. Hannigan, Dominic. Healy Eames, Fidelma. Buttimer, Jerry. McCarthy, Michael. Cannon, Ciaran. Phelan, John Paul. Coffey, Paudie. Prendergast, Phil. Coghlan, Paul. Ryan, Brendan. Cummins, Maurice.

Tellers: Tá, Senators Camillus Glynn and Diarmuid Wilson; Níl, Senators Paudie Coffey and Maurice Cummins.

Question declared carried.

Amendment declared lost.

Section 13 agreed to.

Section 14 agreed to.

SECTION 15.

Government amendment No. 21:

234 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

In page 13, subsection (2)(a), line 2, to delete “a code of practice or sections of a” and substitute “the code of practice or the part of the”.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 22: In page 13, subsection (2)(a), line 6, to delete “sections” and substitute “the part”.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 23: In page 13, subsection (2)(a), line 9, to delete “sections” and substitute “the part”.

Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 24: In page 13, subsection (2)(b), to delete line 13 and substitute “the code or the part of the code with or”.

Amendment agreed to.

Section 15, as amended, agreed to.

Sections 16 and 17 agreed to.

SECTION 18.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I move amendment No. 25:

In page 16, lines 38 to 43, to delete subsection (2).

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I do not accept this amendment. This is a standard provision in legislation where there is a transfer of staff from one body to another. It provides that the transferred staff will have the same terms and conditions as they currently have, as required under the European Communities (Protection of Employees on Transfer of Undertakings) Regu- lations 2003.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed: “That section 18 stand part of the Bill.”

Senator Jim Walsh: Under the transfer of undertakings legislation, it is customary that, even in circumstances in which private companies are transferred to new owners, the employees’ terms and conditions are taken on board. There is good reason for this provision, namely, protection for employees. However, this does not mean that if the commercial challenges facing the company change in future, it cannot revisit the transferred employees’ terms and conditions as if they were continuing employees in the company. Should we not examine this matter to ensure that such would be possible? I raise this matter in the context of the disproportionate action taken by air traffic controllers who held the travelling public to ransom. It turned out that the Irish Aviation Authority, IAA, was paying 30% of salaries as a contribution to pensions. This situation would not be sus- 235 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

[Senator Jim Walsh.] tainable in any company. It may be a carryover from this type of legislative clause, an issue that was not addressed by management. We can never expect to extricate ourselves from our serious economic difficulties if we allow bad practices to continue within the semi-State and State sectors. There are reasons to be fair to people, but there are also reasons to be sensible in what we do. I am making this point in the context of recent events, as a similar legislative clause would have been used as the basis for the inaction of management and that company’s board to tackle an obvious anomaly that has had serious implications for the State sector. When we are undertaking transfers, they should comply with the European legislation but they should not ignore commercial realities and the requirement that people on boards or at senior management level within the bodies in question should operate them properly, efficiently and in line with best managerial practice.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: The Senator has made good points. This matter does not relate to the example provided alone, an industrial dispute that had a significant effect. We must be flexible in the next year or two as we amalgamate a number of agencies and look for efficiencies in how we deliver public services. Obviously, one wants to maintain the primary rights and conditions of employees, but we will also need flexibility and efficiencies in how we do business and work, particularly in the public service. I will pass on the Senator’s points to the relevant powers in the Department of Finance and elsewhere who, as we undertake the work of amalga- mating agencies, have a responsibility to ensure we achieve such efficiencies for the good of everyone.

Senator Jim Walsh: I agree 100% with the Minister. We must be fair to people who work in the private and public sectors. I know people in the latter who apply themselves diligently and conscientiously to their jobs and we are fortunate to have such excellent people. As with every organisation, however, there are drones within the service and, unfortunately, they tend to be protected. In the private sector, these people would find themselves sidelined after a time, but this is not the case within the public sector. We must ensure the best possible commercial practices apply. I am a member of the Joint Committee on Communications, Energy and Natural Resources which has examined some of the relevant semi-State organisations. Across a range of those bodies, opportunities were taken by people, who quite often were moving from the public sector to the semi-State sector, to ensure salaries were increased significantly. In some instances, salaries at the top level in the semi-State sector are probably not commensurate with responsibilities and jobs. However, the salaries for senior administrative positions, which we are approximately discussing in this event, have been inflated. I do not know how this situation will be tackled but it needs to be tackled. We must also be fair if we are asking people at the lower levels to play their part by taking salary reductions. I do not disagree with those reductions because salaries in the public and private sectors are too high, which is a large part of the reason we have lost competitiveness. At senior level within the semi-State bodies, there must be an overarching mechanism to control some of the excesses of many years that have inflated salaries. It is not fair that people who hold positions of greater responsibility in the private sector do not get anything like those salaries. We must be more energised about and engaged with this area.

Question put and agreed to.

Sections 19 and 20 agreed to. 236 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Committee Stage.

SECTION 21.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Amendments Nos. 26 to 28, inclusive, are related and may be discussed together. Government amendment No. 26:

In page 20, lines 39 to 41, to delete all words from and including “NRA” in line 39 down to and including “operator,” in line 41 and substitute the following:

“NRA to impose charges for the use of ducts, which are provided and made available on those roads by an authority to a network operator,”.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: These are minor drafting amendments agreed with the Parliamentary Counsel. Amendments Nos. 26 and 28 provide better clarity of meaning in the text, and amendment No. 27 is necessary to ensure the provisions of section 53(20) of the principal Act include consents under subsection (4) as well as subsection (3). Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 27: In page 23, line 23, to delete “under subsection (3)”. Amendment agreed to.

Government amendment No. 28: In page 24, to delete lines 26 to 30 and substitute the following: “(2) Where ducts, which are provided and made available on a national road by an authority for use by network operators, are required to be moved arising from any works undertaken by an authority to improve the road, then—”. Amendment agreed to.

Question proposed: “That section 21, as amended, stand part of the Bill.”

Senator Jim Walsh: I agree with the amendments but with one caveat. It is essential in all these areas where we have public utilities, such as the National Roads Authority, that where charges are applied it should not merely be about cost. There should be an onus on them to have reasonable costs so that there is value for money. As such, the charges passed on to the consumer should reflect that. I often see in public utilities that nobody exercises control over costs. The costs are a purely mathematical exercise and passed on to the competitive world. We must be conscious of that.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: Absolutely. More than anything else, our competitiveness throughout the country will depend on fibre availability. It must be rolled out competitively. State infrastructure is one of the best ways to roll it out throughout the country. I agree with the Senator on the need to keep the cost down and availability up. Question put and agreed to. Section 22 agreed to. Title agreed to.

Bill reported with amendments. 237 Death of Former Member: 27 January 2010. Expressions of Sympathy

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: When is it reported to take Report Stage?

Senator Donie Cassidy: It is proposed to take Report Stage at 3.15 p.m. this afternoon.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Sitting suspended at 12.35 p.m. and resumed at 2.30 p.m.

Death of Former Member: Expressions of Sympathy. Senator Donie Cassidy: It was with great sadness that we learned of the death last August of the former Senator and Deputy William Kenneally, better known as Billy. Billy had a long and eventful life, packed full of achievements and public service. He was one of Waterford’s favourite sons and as a businessman and politician and in everyday community life he made an important and lasting contribution to the development of the south-east region. Billy was a lifelong member of the Fianna Fáil Party. On behalf of the parliamentary party, we were grateful for his tremendous efforts in promoting and working for the party for many years. Through his dedication he played a massive part in its success. His father, William Kenneally Snr., was a prominent figure in the party in Waterford, serving the people of Waterford in Dáil Éireann from 1952 to 1961. This was the proud political legacy on which Billy built in the course of a remarkable career which brought further distinction to him and the Kenneally family. Billy took his first steps as a public representative in the Lemass era. He was very much a politician of the time and, like Lemass, had a strong sense of patriotism and shared his impatience for progress. He had a deep-seated belief in business and enterprise, seeing it as the engine to drive national development. Billy’s background was in business. He was a partner in the very successful Kenneally City Bus Company which for many years was a great Waterford institution and provided an important transport service for the people of Waterford city and county. Billy contested his first election in the general election of 1961 and was unlucky not to take a seat on that occasion. However, he persevered and was subsequently co-opted onto the council, of which he was a member for 15 years. He also served as mayor of the authority. He understood well Tipp O’Neill’s famous saying that “all politics are local” because for him the whole purpose of politics was to serve his local community, take on board their concerns, make them his own and do everything in his power to improve the quality of life of his native community. The respect his neighbours, friends and fellow citizens of Waterford had for him is evident in the fact that he was given the great distinction of serving the community as mayor of Waterford. It is also obvious from the fact that on five consecutive occasions the people of Waterford elected him as their representative in Dáil Éireann. In the general election of 1965 he topped the poll and repeated that feat in the 1969 and 1977 general elections. Billy was an immensely popular politician who was held in high esteem and with great affec- tion by colleagues on all sides of the House. He did valuable work at the Council of Europe from 1971 to 1973, during a period in which Ireland’s relationship with the European Union was a dominant theme in public debate. He served as Fianna Fáil Front Bench spokesperson on fisheries in opposition between 1973 and 1975 and had a close relationship with George Colley and Jack Lynch. When Fianna Fáil returned to power in 1977, Jack Lynch asked Billy to perform the difficult role of chairman of the parliamentary party and his tenure coincided with one of the most volatile periods in Fianna Fáil’s history. It is testament to his character and abilities that he is still remembered as an excellent chairman of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party. When I first 238 Death of Former Member: 27 January 2010. Expressions of Sympathy took my seat as a Senator in 1982, Billy was the chairman of the party and utterly fair at all times. His focus was always on the betterment of the party and his community, never on personalities or in-fighting. He lost his Dáil seat in 1982 but was elected to Seanad Éireann that year on the Administrative Panel. Right to the end, Billy maintained a keen interest in politics and public life and was rightly proud of the political achievements of his son, Brendan, our friend and colleague in the Dáil and Seanad. I am sure Brendan will draw on his father’s fine legacy and exemplary public service as he continues to serve the people of Waterford in the same dedicated and distinguished fashion as his father. Brendan was a distinguished Member of this House from 2002 to 2007. I extend my sympathy and that of the Fianna Fáil Party to Billy’s wife, Maureen; his sons, Brendan, Donal, Kevin, Patrick and Martin; brother, Jackie; sister, Kathleen; grandchildren, Cathy, Sarah, Liam, Fionn and Megan; daughters-in-law, Martina and Monica; brothers-in-law; sisters-in-law; his niece, Marion; his extended family and very many friends. I acknowledge the presence of his family in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. He would be very proud to see them present today. We salute a great parliamentarian, a great friend and, above all, a great family man. Go ndéanfaidh Dia trócaire ar a anam.

Senator Maurice Cummins: I am honoured to lead the tributes to Billy Kenneally on behalf of the Fine Gael Party. The Kenneally family has been the backbone of the Fianna Fáil Party in Waterford for generations. Billy served with distinction in this House and the Dáil for many years. His father was a member of the city council, having been elected in 1942. He also served with distinction in this House from 1952 to 1961. Deputy Brendan Kenneally continues that family tradition, having been a member of this House and Dáil Éireann. I served with Billy from 1979 to 1985 on Waterford Corporation, as it was then called, now Waterford City Council. To be in his company and so many other stalwarts was an educational experience. I had the pleasure of meeting Billy on many occasions, especially during mayoral elections. We have a tradition in Waterford that former mayors are invited to attend mayoral elections. It is a wonderful tradition because it recognises the efforts of former mayors and what they have done for the city. I also served on Waterford Harbour Board and we had many good years after 1985. Billy served on that body with distinction. As the Leader of the House stated, Billy was chairman of the Fianna Fáil parliamentary party during turbulent years in the party. I often spoke to him about those occasions. It is no secret that he was not an admirer of the leadership style of the then leader of Fianna Fáil, Mr. Haughey. However, he always remained loyal to the party and I am sure he was delighted in later years to see his son, Brendan, elected to Dáil Éireann. Likewise, he was thrilled to see him, after a short sojourn in this House, regain his seat at the last election. This must have been a great source of pride to Billy. Billy was a proud Waterford man and for many years served the people of Waterford city and county with distinction. There is no doubt that he was held in high regard by the people of Waterford. As the Leader stated, he was returned on many occasions, often topping the poll, which is testament to the esteem in which the people of Waterford held him. On my own behalf and that of Fine Gael, I express my sincere sympathy to his wife, Maureen; his brother, Jackie, and the lads. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

Senator Joe O’Toole: I welcome the extended family of former Senator Billy Kenneally. I did not know him, although I know his son only too well. I never had the pleasure of serving 239 Death of Former Member: 27 January 2010. Expressions of Sympathy

[Senator Joe O’Toole.] with him. Nonetheless, on behalf of Members on the Independent benches, I wish to be associated with the tributes being paid to him today. At a time when politics is held in low esteem by the media and the general population and it is hard to be a politician, Billy Kenneally’s record of decades of service at local and national level is what is required in a functioning democracy. Without this, it would not happen. People talk about families trying to take over areas but I salute this family for giving members of three generations to public representation. This is something about which it can be extraordinarily proud. No doubt Mrs. Kenneally carried the burden of raising a family and running a household. I express to her our appreciation of her personal commitment. This would not have happened without her support. Children expect their parents to pass on at some stage. Very often, however, the pain of someone dying is felt by the grandchildren. Billy’s grandchildren have great memories and can be proud of their grandad. He did a lot of good things. At some stage they might read about some of the things he said in these Houses and learn more about him. On behalf of my colleagues on the Independent benches, I express my condolences to Billy’s family. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: On behalf of the Labour Party, I extend condolences to the wife and children of the former Senator and Deputy, Billy Kenneally, on the family’s great loss. Billy Kenneally was a member of the 16th Seanad, having been elected on the Administrative Panel, in 1982 and 1983. While I did not have the honour of serving with him, from speaking to Deputies in the constituency of Waterford, I know that he was all that is good in politics. He was committed to the people of Waterford, his party and family. I have heard nothing but positive things said about him from those who knew him. I convey my sympathy to his wife, Maureen, and family but also to the Fianna Fáil Party, to which he gave great service for a large part of his life. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.

Senator Dan Boyle: On behalf of the Green Party, An Comhaontas Glas, I wish to be associated with the tributes paid on the passing of the former Member of this House and Dáil Éireann, Billy Kenneally. The contributions to date, especially by those who worked directly with him, show a person with fierce commitment and no inconsiderable achievements in public life. That the people of Waterford recognised this on a regular basis is enough recognition. I also wish to be associated with the comments made about the presence of the family and the contribution made by it over three generations. This takes commitment in its own right. I also wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to our Oireachtas colleague, Deputy Brendan Kenneally. To be part of the service of three generations may be unique. I am not sure of the historical precedent but it must be rare for a father and son to have served in both Houses of the Oireachtas. That the House is addressing his father’s contribution is an expression of the contribution the Kenneally family has made towards the working of these Houses, to life in Waterford and politics in the country. On behalf of my party, I wish to be associated with the comments made.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I wish to be associated with the expressions of sympathy to Maureen and the Kenneally family on the passing of Billy. As a relatively new Member of the House and a Waterford representative, I am proud to be following in the footsteps of a man like Billy Kenneally. I did not know him personally but he was known to me as I grew up. I was surrounded by political activity, albeit on the other side, representing the Fine Gael Party. My late father, Mr. Pat Coffey, was a friend and colleague of Billy Kenneally and they worked across many sectors in representing the people of Waterford for many years. 240 Death of Former Member: 27 January 2010. Expressions of Sympathy

There is no doubt that Billy Kenneally did not serve the people of Waterford by chance. It is well known in Waterford how connected he was to the grassroots and the people who really mattered, the people of the constituency. Billy put great faith in clinics and meeting people on a regular basis so he could represent their views at national level. It is important we remember we are here to represent the views of the people who elected us. Generations of the Kenneally family have been involved in politics. Senator O’Toole spoke about the impact of politics on families. As the father of a young family, I understand the pressures we can face. Maureen and all the Kenneally family gave great support to Billy over the years. Nobody could stay active in the rough and tumble of politics in the absence of a supportive family. I consider generational politics as a good thing. Several Members of these Houses have followed their fathers or mothers into politics after learning over many years how to represent the people of their respective areas. We should encourage this practice at every opportunity. I offer my sincere sympathies to the Kenneally family, including my Oireachtas colleague, Deputy Brendan Kenneally. The people of Waterford will always respect Billy.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I acknowledge the presence of the Kenneally family and pay tribute to the late Billy. The Kenneally family has been a household name for me since I was a child growing up in Waterford. That three generations of the Kenneally family have been involved in politics since the 1940s says a lot about their commitment to the country. The late Billy Kenneally was elected to the Dáil in 1965 and the Seanad in 1981, as well as serving on Waterford County Council for many years. He was dedicated to public service all his life. I continued to follow his progress even after I moved from Waterford to pursue my earlier, non-political, career in Dublin. He was a charming man with a great way of dealing with people. Even when he was no longer a public representative, he remained in touch. As Tip O’Neill famously stated, all politics is local. The Kenneally family had the grassroots touch for politics. It is vital that we retain our grassroots commitment to the people. One always knew a Kenneally was the local representative for Waterford. His son, Deputy Brendan Kenneally, has to fill a big pair of shoes in maintaining the proud record of his father and grandfather. It is lovely to see the entire family, including Mrs. Kenneally and her grandchildren. Waterford is at a loss without Billy. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam.

Senator John Ellis: I offer my personal sympathies to Billy Kenneally’s wife, Maureen, his sons and brothers and his extended family. When I was elected in 1977, I had the honour of sharing a fourth floor office with Billy. I learned a lot from him from the day I arrived as the youngest elected Senator. His wise counsel prevented me from committing mortal political sins on many occasions. There could be an odd rough day in that era, to put it mildly. I recall him advising me as a young lad to keep out of the fray. It was good advice because it was not wise for a rookie in the Houses of the Oireachtas to get involved in controversy. He was dedicated to his constituency and he never arrived without a case full of queries and problems. We did not have great facilities at the time. Younger Members may not be aware that we could only nominate two external telephone numbers. Most of us could only call home or our respective county councils. Billy was more often on the telephone to the county council than he was to his home. I greatly appreciate the advice and counsel he gave me when I was a young Member and offer my deepest sympathy to his family. Deputy Brendan Kenneally has continued a noble tradition and any family which has been represented in this House over three generations can claim a proud record. 241 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Report and Final Stages

An Cathaoirleach: I wish to be associated with the tributes paid to the late Billy Kenneally. He was elected to this House in 1982 as a nominee of the Administrative Panel. I had the honour of voting for him in that election. He made a huge contribution to Irish political life and the Houses of the Oireachtas in his roles as Deputy and Senator and to Waterford city and county as a member and mayor of the council. In keeping with the Kenneally tradition his son, Deputy Brendan Kenneally, is an industrious and respected Member of the Dáil and an outstanding former Member of this House. I extend my sincere sympathy to Billy’s wife, Maureen, and his family on their sad loss.

Members rose.

Eighth Report of the Committee of Selection: Motion. An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I wish to be associated with the vote of sympathy to the late Mr. Kenneally, a former Senator and Deputy, and extend my sympathy to Deputy Brendan Kenneally, a former Member of this House, and to his mother and family. The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated Senator Cecilia Keaveney to serve on the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny and has also nominated Senator Alex White to fill the vacancy caused by the election of Senator Alan Kelly to the European Parliament. The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated Senator Jim Walsh to serve on the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s Rights. The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated Senator Paschal Mooney to serve on the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Senator Tony Kett. The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated Senator James Carroll to serve on the Joint Administration Committee to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Senator Peter Callanan. The Committee of Selection reports that it has nominated Senator Camillus Glynn to serve on the Committee of Selection to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Senator Tony Kett. I move: “That the report be laid before the Seanad.”

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 3 p.m. and resumed at 3.15 p.m.

Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Bill 2009: Report and Final Stages. An Leas-Chathaoirleach: I welcome the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Ryan, to the House. I remind Senators that they may speak only once on Report Stage, except the proposer of an amendment, who may reply to the discussion on the amendment. Each amendment must be seconded. Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 are related and may be discussed together by agreement. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Michael McCarthy: I move amendment No. 1:

In page 8, between lines 36 and 37, to insert the following:

“(2) It shall be a condition of a licence under section 6 that—

(a) the premium rate service provider shall ensure that any service of an ongoing nature may be readily terminated by the user at any time, and in the case of a service provided 242 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Report and Final Stages

by SMS, the user may terminate the service at any time by sending “stop” in reply to any SMS received,

I welcome the Minister and his officials back to the House. As we said earlier on Committee Stage, the spirit of these amendments is to protect consumer interests. We are aware that, unfortunately, certain operators take advantage of people. Everyone has a mobile telephone and many people have two. Unfortunately, some people do not have the level of knowledge one would assume to subscribe to such services. For a variety of reasons, sometimes unwittingly, people might end up subscribing to a service and not discover that is the case until such time as the telephone bill arrives or their credit has been swallowed up. In the context of amendment No. 2, in cases where that happens — the Minister is correct when he says we all know people who have been affected by it — one will not break the bank in terms of the amount of money concerned but, generally speaking, it is a wrong and if that is the case, it needs to be righted. If people are being treated in this manner, they need to be compensated by those responsible for the injustice in the first instance. All too often people can be lured into such arrangements, for example, to a weather alert or traffic alert system, and one might reasonably expect to be contacted once because of the requirements of a journey on a particular day. One might subsequently discover when a bill arrives that one has subscribed to a daily service at the cost of €1 plus VAT for each alert. The amounts concerned are not insignificant. When such a scenario arises, people should be compensated. A mechanism needs to be put in place to allow a swift cessation of any such activity. Paragraph (b) of amendment No. 1 states, “where a premium rate service provider fails to comply with paragraph (a) in any particular case, he or she shall refund the user in accordance with and subject to regulations under subsection (1)”. That is fair and reasonable.

Senator Paudie Coffey: I second the amendment. The two amendments seem reasonable and the Minister might explain to us whether he believes they are not reasonable. The statistics show that premium rate services on fixed line and mobile devices have grown sixfold from one year to the next and were worth €195 million to the industry last year. Some 76 million chargeable premium text messages were sent in 2008. Taking all of that into account, there are obviously vulnerable categories of people who have mobile phones and who may genuinely look for information from some of these service providers but may find it difficult to get out of the contract they enter into with them. Amendment No. 1 is simple. It obliges the service provider to stop the service if the user sends the word “stop” in a text message from the user’s mobile phone. This is the system that is used already. I do not see any reason it should not be enshrined in the licensing arrangements to oblige the provider to stop the service once it has been instructed to do so by the user. Perhaps the Minister has another mechanism in mind that might clarify this or put into effect the spirit of this amendment to give more comfort to consumers that when they want to stop a premium rate service, which is quite expensive and can build up over time, there is a mechanism that obliges the service provider to do so when instructed. That is the spirit of the amendment, which the Minister might address. As regards compensation, I understand the Minister has allowed for fines of up to €250,000 but there needs to be clear sanction in this area and consumers need to know there is such sanction where the service they are being sold is being abused, or if they are being defrauded 243 Communications Regulation 27 January 2010. Bill 2009: Report and Final Stages

[Senator Paudie Coffey.] or misled in any way. The levels of sanction must be clearly in place. Where fraud or abuse of the system is found by those in authority — either ComReg or another authority — there should be some level of compensation over and above a normal refund. I quoted the statistics for a reason. This is now a huge business and it will grow exponentially in the years ahead because mobile telephones and devices are becoming more accessible. The applications that are on them now are such that one could run a laptop from a mobile phone. Premium rate services will be offered on these mobile devices so it is important we use this opportunity to regulate this area so people cannot be defrauded. Where they are defrauded, we must ensure there are good compensation measures, and when people instruct the service provider to stop, we must ensure the provider does so and does not continue sending premium messages. I accept this is the general thrust of the Bill, which is why we support it. There is much anecdotal evidence that where people tell the service provider to stop, it does not do so and continues to send messages and to charge users. This is the general spirit of the amendments, which I support.

Senator Martin Brady: I agree with the points made by Senator Coffey. However, from the information I have and having worked in the business previously, I understand premium calls are a problem for many people, in particular when others use a person’s phone without his or her knowledge. A disputed account situation may develop, which is a big issue. At the time I worked in the business, it was possible to bar calls to premium numbers from one’s phone. I have checked this with some of my former colleagues in the old Telecom Éireann who tell me it is still the case that the customer can do this on most phones and, if not, a device can be provided to control that and ensure that if there are visitors to one’s house who would not normally be there, they would not have access to those premium numbers.

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I very much accept the spirit of the amendments but, unfortunately, I cannot accept them in this legislative form. As I stated during the debate on Committee Stage, the advice from the Attorney General is that it would not be appropriate to set out the terms and conditions of a licence in primary legislation, even if we do not disagree with the intent behind it. Section 7 empowers ComReg to make regulations specifying the class or type of premium rate service that will require to be licensed and the conditions that will attach to a licence. These conditions will include the basis and the circumstances under which refunds may be made to end users. With regard to enabling users to terminate a subscription, this will also be a condition of the licence. The conditions of the licence are the critical issue. These may vary over time and different conditions will apply to different classes and types of premium rate service. By providing these conditions in secondary legislation, ComReg will be able to change the conditions it wishes to set by regulation. If they were set instead in primary legislation, amending legislation would be required in each instance. The code of practice to be published by ComReg under section 15 may also contain similar requirements in regard to the mechanisms for refunds and terminating a subscription service. Compliance with the code of practice will be a condition of a licence and thus enforceable by ComReg under this Bill. In summary, while I very much agree with the intent of what the Senators propose, it is more appropriate for that intent to be acted out in secondary legislation, where there is flexibility and where it can adapt, rather than in primary legislation. We have the powers we need. I look forward to our putting them into legislation.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is the Senator pressing the amendment? 244 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion

Senator Michael McCarthy: I will withdraw the amendment. I wish to refer to some aspects of the Minister’s contribution. He said he cannot agree to the amendments in this legislative form. There is no other arena in which I will be successful in getting the amendment across. I recognise what the Minister has said. The spirit is there and it is about protecting the consumer. I acknowledge that he agrees with the spirit of the amendments, but as the seanchaí says, there the story rests.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. 2 not moved.

Bill received for final consideration.

Question proposed: “That the Bill do now pass.”

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I thank the Seanad for passing what is important public interest legislation focused on protecting people who have been scammed via their mobile phone operations. This is a very real issue. It involved the largest volume of correspondence on my desk, which was often from young people who were inappropriately dealt with by commercial organisations. What we have done today is to give the State the powers to fight back to protect those consumers, which is very important. Second, and crucially, we have given in the Bill a key development role to the development of broadband in this country, especially outside our cities, and to use the infrastructure we have, including the road network, to get fibre to every town and county. This is crucial for the social and economic development of the country. I very much welcome being able to provide that in the legislation and look forward to the relevant agencies putting it into practice and providing ducting. I thank my officials, who have worked very hard, correctly and well in preparing the legislation. It has changed quite significantly as it has gone through both Houses of the Oireachtas, which is appropriate. We have listened to some of the concerns and ideas coming from the Opposition. I look forward to sending it on to the President and putting it into effect.

Question put and agreed to.

Sitting suspended at 3.30 p.m. and resumed at 5 p.m.

Haiti Disaster: Motion. Senator Ann Ormonde: I move:

That Seanad Éireann fully supports the Government in its efforts to assist the people of Haiti in the aftermath of recent earthquakes.

I have come from a meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, at which we heard from representatives from Concern, Haven, the Red Cross and a few others. I commend them on the fine contributions they made. We heard about what they were doing on the ground in Haiti and it is useful to follow up on that discussion with a debate on this motion. I welcome the Minister of State. I am pleased to have the opportunity to speak on the awful tragedy that has happened to the people of Haiti, to whom I extend my sympathy, particularly those who have lost many friends and family members. This is a massive disaster. I prepared a script but, having listened to the contributions of the representatives at the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, I do not know from which angle to 245 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion

[Senator Ann Ormonde.] approach this disaster. Some 200,000 people are dead, more than 190,000 have been injured and a great number are now homeless. How in the name of God can we meet that challenge? It is a colossal undertaking. I was taken aback by what I heard about the role being played by Irish Aid workers and how they were trying to get to grips with the problem. It is essential that the emergency needs of people in terms of health, food, water, sanitation, shelter and other basic requirements are met first. The problem is whether aid workers can get to them to provide them with such assistance. The big issue that arose from questions put by colleagues at the meeting of the joint committee was whether the co-ordination of the relief effort can work on the ground. Is a central body overseeing the co-ordination of the relief work? I have a sense that the relief effort is all over the place. Perhaps I do not have enough knowledge, but that is my thinking on it. The challenges to be faced are huge. The rainy season is only two months away and those who can are moving out to the suburbs of Port-au-Prince. The challenge is to erect tents for people and to relocate families before the rainy season begins. Is there conflict among the agencies as to which one will merit most in their delivery programmes? I have a sense that there is such competition, which is a concern as competition should not from part of their thinking in the relief effort. I commend the Government, through Irish Aid, on its response, as well as the non-governmental organisations such as Concern, GOAL, the Red Cross and many others. Showing a united front by the various organisations is commendable. A website www.howyoucanhelp.ie has been set up to let people know how they can volunteer or donate to fund the relief effort. The outstanding response by members of the public in seeking to help those affected should also be acknowledged. Irish people, as always, have answered the call to help those in need and have raised some €10 million. That is a colossal sum of money from a population of only 4 million. The response is a credit to the nation and can be compared to the sum of €40 million raised in the United Kingdom which has a population of 67 million. The generosity of the Irish people in the face of such adversity is well documented. Ireland is the seventh largest contribu- tor to the United Nations central emergency response fund. The Government was quick in its response in donating €2 million and distributing 85 tonnes of essential equipment which has helped an estimated 12,000 so far. A co-ordinated response has been slow to emerge and my big concern is whether a central body will co-ordinate the relief effort. There is a weak government in Haiti and there is a concern about whether it can lead the relief effort or who will take the lead in its organisation? What role will the United National humanitarian section play? A motion was tabled at the meeting of the joint committee to the effect that the IMF should disregard Haiti’s massive loan. This proposal should be given consideration We have a role to play in that respect. The challenges faced in terms of reconstruction, the relocation of people, the provision of tents and the delivery of emergency rations in the next few weeks are colossal. In an article I read today it was suggested a new city might have to be built far away from the geological fault lines in Port-au-Prince. The international effort must take all these considerations into account. Skilled workers and professionals, including paramedics, nurses and educationists, who can give of their time and make their way to Haiti quickly are needed as a matter of urgency. However, as I mentioned earlier, there must be a partnership arrangement. If we are all donating money, there must be accountability in how that money is spent. There must be a partnership between the UN, the EU and the Haitian Government. I understand the US is hosting a conference in due course to discuss these issues. The time for talking is over; the required co-ordination must be put in place. Otherwise I worry about those who are homeless or have emergency needs. If we do not reach out to them now, I worry for the future of Haiti. It is the poorest country in 246 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion the western world. We must make it our business to help it in any way we can. The Irish people have never been slow. We will continue to help, but we do need accountability. We want to see how the money is being spent and how it is getting to its locations. I trust the Minister will consider my points and keep us informed, because we will have ongoing discussions about this massive disaster. The rainy season is approaching, followed by the hurricane season later in the year. We need regular reports on the situation.

Senator John Hanafin: I second the motion, and request permission to speak later in the debate.

An Cathaoirleach: That is agreed.

Senator Maurice Cummins: I extend my sincere condolences to the people of Haiti, especially the loved ones of the approximately 200,000 people who lost their lives in the devastating earthquake that struck their country and continues to wreak havoc there. Our thoughts also go to the family of the Irish man Andrew Grene, who tragically lost his life in the disaster while serving with the United Nations. We should also extend our sympathy to Concern on the death of one of its volunteers and to the UN itself, which lost so many of its staff in the earthquake. The scale of the devastation, based on eyewitness reports and what we have seen on our televisions, is considerable, with Port-au-Prince and other cities almost completely destroyed. In addition to the major loss of life and the destruction of the main government buildings and that housing UN personnel and staff, most of the communications infrastructure was either gravely damaged or destroyed beyond repair. The UN, which would have been expected to play the lead role in co-ordinating the relief effort, was seriously hampered in its organisational capacity due to the loss of staff. In view of all these factors, including the lack of disaster preparedness planning and the weakness of the government’s capacity to respond, it is no surprise that aid did not immediately reach people who desperately needed it. The American response was swift, welcome and absolutely necessary, and it brought much- needed leadership and co-ordination to what quickly descended into a chaotic situation. We were all anxious about the delay in bringing aid to these poor people, but thankfully things are improving each day, as has been explained by all of the aid agencies. Food, water, sanitation, shelter and medical expertise are the most urgent requirements in the short term. However, the international attention and resources that are now available must be used to lay the foundations of a more productive, fair and stable Haiti in the longer term. It would be remiss of me not to pay tribute to the Irish aid agencies, which have responded in magnificent fashion, as we have come to expect from them. The generosity of the Irish people knows no bounds, which never ceases to amaze me. For example, in my small parish of Sacred Heart in Waterford, our curate informed the church congregation that €2,000 had been collected during the first two masses the previous weekend, although I am not sure what the total figure was. This is typical of the generous response of the Irish people and I am sure it was replicated throughout the country. The motion states that the Seanad “supports the Government in its efforts to assist the people of Haiti in the aftermath of recent earthquakes”. I have no problem with this motion, and to table an amendment, which is customary, would deflect attention from the overwhelming desire of all in the House to channel our support and show our solidarity with the people of Haiti. The Irish Government’s response is part of a combined European relief effort. I would like to see the EU take a more hands-on approach and make it clear to the people that we stand 247 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Senator Maurice Cummins.] by them. Not only will we provide rescue workers, medical personnel, food and shelter now, but we will pledge to assist them in the long-term reconstruction of their country. Haiti has been bedevilled by corruption and poor government for many years. However, the fact that the Prime Minister has acknowledged that the country needs a government that is smaller, costs less and does more is a small step in the right direction. At the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, we have listened to reports from Concern, the Red Cross and Haven. Two of the people involved came back from Haiti to inform us of what was happening on the ground. It is certainly disastrous. What the representatives told us was in many cases harrowing to listen to. Before the earthquake, Haiti was one of the poorest countries in the western world, with half the population living on about a dollar a day and an unemployment level of 54%. What it faces now is the necessity of rebuilding almost 75% of its capital city. Can we imagine what it would be like if 75% of our capital city here was knocked down? That is what is facing the people of Haiti at present. Haiti has been the subject of much media attention but, when the cameras are gone, I hope the international community will not walk away from its responsibilities. After the hurricanes, more than €100 million was pledged by the international community but, up to now, only about 15% of this was forthcoming. I urge the Minister of State to ensure the same thing does not happen now. The pledges that are made must be honoured. I am sure they will be honoured by our Government but it must be ensured the EU and the international community honour the pledges made in order that Haiti can be rebuilt properly by erecting earthquake proof buildings similar to those built by Denis O’Brien. It would be remiss of me not to mention the great work being done by him and the employment he is providing. His company was able to construct earthquake proof buildings and there is no reason all other buildings should not be constructed in a similar fashion in future. I urge the Minister of State to do his utmost to ensure the international community honours its pledges in the long term. Aid will flow in the short term but proper co-ordination is the issue. We must look beyond the short to medium term and consider the long term for the population of Haiti, which has suffered such devastation. I am happy to support the motion.

Debate adjourned.

Visit of Cuban Ambassador. An Cathaoirleach: Before we continue I welcome the Cuban ambassador to Ireland to the Distinguished Visitors Gallery.

Haiti Disaster: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Senator Ann Ormonde on Wednesday, 27 January 2010: That Seanad Éireann fully supports the Government in its efforts to assist the people of Haiti in the aftermath of recent earthquakes.

Senator Niall Ó Brolcháin: I acknowledge the presence of the Cuban ambassador and I am delighted an ambassador from another Caribbean country is present for this debate because this is time for solidarity with Haiti. All islands must think of the devastation in the country. Before the earthquake happened, Haiti was in enormous political difficulty. Ireland and Cuba — even though I have heard good reports about that country — may think they have problems but Haiti is the poorest country in the western hemisphere. We are debating the minimum wage currently while GDP per capita in Haiti is less than €3.80 per day. 248 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

I commend the many Irish aid agencies working in Haiti. I am glad that during the Celtic tiger era, overseas development aid increased. It is a shame the Government has cut it to the extent it has but, at the same time, a reasonable allocation is still provided and I am glad the Government is still committed to reaching in due course the target set many years ago. I commend the work of Concern in Haiti where it has operated and done significant work since 1994, as has GOAL. The famous John O’Shea is always good at getting to the nub of the problem when disasters occur. He highlighted the need to establish an “overarching entity to co-ordinate and control the operations in Haiti” and said, “Disasters on this scale of tragedy in Haiti are beyond the scope of any aid organisation to contain”. There is a limit to what can be done given hundreds of thousands of people have died in this tragedy. Ireland had problems with flooding and snow but this disaster puts them in perspective. We do not know how many people are injured or the number of orphans left by this appalling tragedy. Since the Republic was formed, we have always had solidarity with people from poor countries or countries that suffer great disasters, and this can be classed as an enormously appalling disaster. A former colleague of mine, Sister Rose Kelly, was based in Galway for many years but she has been on the ground in Haiti for five years. In correspondence with her, she stated:

The country’s infrastructure is virtually non-existent. The roads are so bad it takes eight hours in a car to get to Port-au-Prince from not too far away.

The Dominican Republic borders Haiti on the island of Hispaniola, which was discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492. Haiti has a population of 9 million. From an environmental perspective, few trees remain in Haiti whereas the border with Dominican Republic, which is more stable politically, is tree lined. It is easy to see the border as a result. Because of the poverty in Haiti, people have taken to using trees as fuel and charcoal for cooking. The level of poverty in this western hemisphere country is not something of which we in the West should be proud. We all want to ensure we can give maximum support to the people of Haiti. I commend the number of fund-raising events held throughout the country. Money is important but the key is to use it wisely. The amount the Government and the EU is providing is important but the key is to ensure the funding is targeted. John O’Shea pointed out the major issue is logistics and ensuring aid gets to where it should. It is not only about sending sacks of food to the people there who face many difficulties. Ireland can address the logistics issue. Approximately 400,000 people are on the dole, many of whom are extremely skilled. Good use should be made of their talents. We should focus on spending funds allocated to Haiti through our overseas development aid budget on them. For example, engineers could go to the country and do enormous good if they are given proper support. Ireland can take many initiatives to solve this problem and it is incumbent on the State to do that. Luckily, Ireland is one of the most earthquake free countries in the world. Thank God for that, given the devastation we have seen on our television screens recently. While there have been heart-warming stories about people who were trapped in rubble for days before being dug out, at the same time they are the exception rather than the rule. This is a human tragedy on a scale we cannot imagine. The people of Haiti are in shock. Their Government is not equipped to deal with the tragedy and, therefore, they need help from every outside agency. Given our great tradition, it is incumbent on us to give as much practical help to the people as we can. I commend the motion and I will support it.

Senator David Norris: I very much welcome the motion. The issue has the attention of the Irish people and it is on the political agenda as well. The Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs had an interesting and useful discussion on this subject this afternoon, in the presence of rep- 249 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Senator David Norris.] resentatives of Haven, Concern and various other organisations. The delegates were looking for aid etc. They pleaded for practical things like 900 latrines. This is the level which the relief effort is at. I pointed out that the crisis in Haiti has to be seen in a political context. That is what the joint committee, like the Parliament as a whole, does. In that light, we must consider the immediate and the historical contexts. I have learned more about Haiti in recent days. I am not sure if the Minister of State saw a remarkable documentary on RTE television last week, which dealt with the work of a Roman Catholic priest from Massachusetts and, more importantly, the work of two Irish women, Dr. Louise Ivers and Ms Gena Heraty. It was remarkable to see Dr. Ivers operating in very difficult circumstances. When I spoke to her on the telephone yesterday, she told me it is possible that there will be an outbreak of dengue fever in the area. It is an extremely serious matter. I am very proud of Dr. Ivers, as I am of Ms Heraty, who said on the documentary, as she cradled in her arms a young spastic child who had been abandoned, that every human being has the right to be protected, loved, hugged and walked with on their journey through life. It is an accident that the people of Ireland are so privileged. There was a justified sense of outrage in the voices of the three people who featured in the programme. Many people do not know about the Haitian Revolution of the beginning of the 19th century, which was led by Toussaint L’Ouverture. Slaves who had been brutally wrenched out of Africa, and planted in Haiti to be tortured, murdered and raped, revolted for the first time in 1802 or 1804. Their punishment for asserting their independence continues to this day. The people of Haiti were punished shamefully by France. I did not know until recently that France forced Haiti to pay reparations until 1947. Similar interventions were made by the Governments of Britain and the United States. One of my colleagues made a coy reference to a change of regime in Haiti. There have been several changes of regime in Haiti. The US helped to install Papa Doc Duvalier, who took approximately $900 million from his impoverished country. The US got rid of Jean-Bertrand Aristide, who was elected by over 70% of the people of Haiti, with the connivance of the Haitian military and the remains of the Tonton Macoute. They put him into a car, took him to the airport, put him on an airplane and flew him to South Africa. How is that for regime change? How is that for democracy? No one can prevent earthquakes or hurricanes — they are natural phenomena. Although the documentary I mentioned was made before the recent earthquake, the situation was desper- ate even at that stage. Haiti is ranked 149th of 182 countries on the UN index. It is not an accident that Haiti is the only country in the western hemisphere with such a low ranking. That has not resulted from hurricanes and earthquakes — it has resulted from the way in which Haiti has been driven down. If the earthquake had happened in any other country in the region, it would not have done the same damage. The people of Haiti are so poverty-stricken that they are unable to build houses in the appropriate way. I would like to make a practical point in the presence of the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Power. A meeting that is taking place in Davos at present was brought to my attention by my colleague, Senator Hanafin.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: Excuse me——

Senator David Norris: I am sorry, I meant to refer to Senator Hannigan. What a blooper.

Senator Dominic Hannigan: There is a big difference. 250 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

Senator David Norris: There is a very big difference. One might say it is the difference between right and left. Senator Hannigan mentioned the meeting in Davos to me. At today’s meeting of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs, I said it is obscene that the International Monetary Fund has dared to respond to the Haitian earthquake by offering loans to that impoverished country. Haiti has so much debt that it has all the qualifications for being exempted from some of it. The IMF is offering loans to Haiti to impoverish it further. That must not happen. Rather than giving loans to Haiti, the IMF should cancel its debt. Senator Hannigan has suggested to me that the Minister of State should get on the telephone after he leaves this Chamber. He should instruct the Irish representatives in Davos to state that it is a shame that the IMF, in the midst of this catastrophe, continues to expect Haiti to make repayments. How and when will Haiti be able to repay its debts? The west’s interference in Haiti destroyed the presidency and humiliated and beggared the people. We do not appear to have any sense of our moral debt to that country. We owe it to the people to Haiti to cancel its debts. I am proud of the Irish contribution to the relief effort, particularly the two women I have mentioned. As I said at this afternoon’s committee meeting, I neither know nor care what their religious complexion is. However, I know, on the basis of my understanding of Christianity, that they are true Christians. We need to live up to their standards. We can help with the reconstruction of Haiti. It must be reconstructed properly, however. Denis O’Brien’s Digicel house should not have been the only building to survive the earthquake. It should have been the case that 75% of the buildings in Port-au-Prince survived the earthquake, rather than 75% of them being devastated. I am proud of all the Irish organisations. It is wonderful that Aer Lingus has got involved as it has done. While I honour the good work that has been done in Haiti by members of the armed forces of the United States and Israel, we should show a little caution. I am worried that the various countries are not acting in a co-ordinated way. Each country seems to be acting for itself. An Italian earthquake expert was quoted in the media the other day as saying that a “bella figura”, or beauty parade, was taking place. People should not be allowed to use the aftermath of the earthquake to massage their image. The United Nations should ensure that a single person or small group of people is charged with the co-ordination of the relief effort. If that is not done, the response will be patchy. Aid agencies are competing and bidding for the parts of the city they want to work in, while large sections of it are not covered at all. Life expectancy in Haiti is 59 years. The HIV-AIDS rate is 5.6%. Some 40% of Haitian households experience food insecurity. We need to do something serious about the current situation in Haiti. I would like to say, in the presence of Her Excellency, the Cuban ambassador to Ireland, that I was most interested in a reference to Cuba in a document published by the European Union Institute for Security Studies:

Haiti matters in the Caribbean. It is the most populated country in the archipelago and its closeness to Cuba makes it an appropriate place to launch operations or to monitor its anti- US neighbour. In short, cynics will say that sending marines to Port-au-Prince probably serves several purposes.

It is clear that from an American point of view, it is very useful to have troops saturating the island. I thank the Cathaoirleach for giving me his percussion. I welcome the motion before the House. I understand that no amendment to the motion has been proposed. The motion can be agreed unanimously and wholeheartedly. I hope Senator Hannigan will pursue the idea of contacting the Irish officials in Davos. He mentioned the idea to me this afternoon after I had 251 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Senator David Norris.] spoken about the need to cancel Haiti’s debt. It is a wonderful idea. I hope Senators on all sides of the House will support it.

Senator Paschal Mooney: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Power. I compliment him on representing this country with such distinction in the national and international media. I wish to speak briefly about the importance of the media in helping us to respond to humanitarian disasters. I compliment the Government on its quick and efficient financial response to the earthquake in Haiti. It has to operate within the confines of Ireland’s national budget, which is quite modest when compared with the budgets of certain larger countries. I would like to respond to some of the comments made by Senator Norris. I compliment him on the passion he brings to an issue that needs passion.

Senator David Norris: Do I hear a “but”?

Senator Paschal Mooney: On Monday of this week, the news media reported that the head of Italy’s civil protection agency, Mr. Guido Bertolaso, who is highly respected in the area of disaster management, has described the aid effort in Haiti as a “pathetic” failure. He said it has become a “vanity show” for the television cameras. He criticised the aid operation’s lack of adequate co-ordination to date and called for the appointment of an international civilian humanitarian co-ordinator. The adequacy of the international community’s response has been criticised in the aftermath of previous humanitarian disasters and international tragedies, such as the tsunami of 2004. We have learned little, however, from previous experience. In 2007, as a member of the Council of Europe, I compiled a report for the Council entitled, Europe’s Response to Humanitarian Disasters, which considered all aspects of Europe’s response to the organisation of humanitarian and civil protection in the aftermath of a disaster. The European region alone provides more than 60% of material and financial international humanitarian aid. The scale of disasters and the experience of dealing with them have highlighted the need for a wider analysis of Europe’s response and responsibility towards humanitarian disasters within Europe and elsewhere. My report concluded that the main problem facing Europe as regards its role in improving further the international co-ordination framework for humanitarian assistance was political. There is no political agreement between member states as to how humanitarian assistance and civil protection should be effectively organised. I made a number of recommendations and was interested that Catherine Day, representing the European Union as late as Tuesday, was bemoaning the lack of co-ordination between member states within the European Union and pressing for a co-ordinated response. The report, even though I could be accused of lacking in modesty, fulfils that need, as do other reports of a similar nature that seemingly have been gathering dust and about which Ms Day does not know. I have no doubt, having discussed the matter with the Minister of State, that he will take on board the existence of the report and attempt to implement some of its recommendations. I made a number of recommendations in this regard. In the first instance, going back to Mr. Bertolaso, his comments, for which he was pilloried in certain quarters, were perfectly credible for those working in the area. If a united co-ordination platform is to be achieved, member states of the European Union must decide which of their interested national Ministries should play the central role in co-ordinating humanitarian aid within the various European and international humanitarian assistance and civil protection mechanisms. I mention this because in Ireland all humanitarian assistance is correctly co-ordinated through the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs. 252 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

Under the civil protection mechanism initiative launched by the European Union in the mid- 1990s, there is a separate channel of funding to justice and home affairs Ministries across Europe which are using the money as they see fit, primarily to fly the flag wherever there is a humanitarian disaster. That was seen during the crisis in Lebanon some years ago when Italy, in particular, sent battleships which sat off the coast of Lebanon, generating enormous publicity nationally that the Italian Government was looking after its own nationals. What about all the other nationalities? Other countries then sent warships and Ireland found itself in a situation where it had to rely on its international colleagues to get its people out of the country. That was purely a humanitarian assistance gesture but flag waving seems to be continuing, even in Haiti. Crucial in achieving the aim of co-ordination is designing a national focal point to co-ordinate national responses to international humanitarian crises and emergencies to avoid a proliferation of unco-ordinated mechanisms, collision of mandates, competition for resources and the over- lapping of initiatives that have a negative effect on the international system’s capacity to deal timely and effectively with emergencies at a global level. Much of the unco-ordinated response in Haiti could have been avoided if this key recommendation had been heeded. The current position is that the European Union is a relatively recent but increasingly significant actor on the international humanitarian stage and an essential partner in supporting and complementing the United Nations’ work on all three pillars — peace and security, human rights and development. European states can participate in international aid responses to humanitarian disasters through a number of mechanisms or combinations of mechanisms. As such, humanitarian intervention may involve taking action directly and unilaterally through civil or military intervention, subject to the authority of the recipient state. The various channels by which European states respond to European disasters, therefore, constitute a multi-faceted and complex environment and may involve a presence and participation at several levels. The challenge of co-ordinating international humanitarian responses is difficult, as I readily concede. In addressing these complex problems, my report recommended the use of the EU civil protection mechanism. This mechanism has been operating since 2002 when it was instituted to facilitate reinforced co-operation between member states in humanitarian crisis intervention. However, the precise nature of its role and involvement in international responses outside EU territory does not yet appear to be clear. I advocated that it should be given an enhanced role in co-ordinating member states’ response to a humanitarian disaster such as the current crisis in Haiti. I compliment the Irish media on its conduct in raising wider awareness among the Irish public of the effects of this terrible disaster. It is important to consider the enormous role to be played by the media in shaping the perception of a crisis and response to emergencies and to speak with one voice and facilitate the response to them. The problem now facing the European Union in its role in developing an international co- ordination framework for humanitarian assistance is political. There is no political agreement between member states on how humanitarian assistance and civil protection, respectively, should be effectively organised. This lack of co-ordination has tragic consequences for those suffering in the wake of a disaster, as we see in the heartbreaking scenes from Haiti on our televisions. Reforming humanitarian assistance mechanisms and the related co-ordination issues should additionally serve as a strong reminder to member states to renew their commitment to their international humanitarian assistance obligations, given their central role in determining the future structure of intervention, especially at European level. I compliment the Minister of State and the State on the magnificent gestures they have made in raising more than €10 million in public donations from this wonderfully charitable people. 253 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

Senator Dominic Hannigan: I welcome the Minister of State and start by expressing the sincere condolences of the Labour Party to the people of Haiti for the recent terrible catastrophe that visited their shores. When the earthquake struck, it took over 100,000 lives and left 3 million injured and traumatised. I want to focus, however, on the response to the tragedy and what needs to be done in the years ahead. While I generally agree with Senator Norris, perhaps in my naı¨veté I have been impressed by the reaction of the United States to date. I saw President Obama on television in the aftermath of the emergency and Secretary of State Clinton visiting Haiti. Their response was heartfelt and measured up to what was required. I was similarly impressed by the efforts of other countries in the region. I single out Brazil and Cuba for their reactions and recognise the attendance of the Cuban ambassador this evening. We can also be proud of our own efforts. Some of the Minister of State’s own staff are in Haiti doing their best to help with the relief efforts. It brought out the best in the Irish people. I share Senator Mooney’s feeling in that I am not convinced that the response at European level has been satisfactory. The response from many of our EU neighbours has been excellent but we must up our game at EU level. The response from the NGO sector has been extremely good. I mention Haven, in particular, an Irish charity which specifically deals with the provision of housing in Haiti. It has committed to the construction in the next two to three years of an additional 10,000 houses in the Port-au-Prince region which will meet about 5% of the home needs in the area. The group should be commended for its commitment and ambition. I am also impressed by the efforts of organisations such as GOAL, Concern and Oxfam. I note the Red Cross’s analysis of the situation, that recognises the massive disaster that has taken place and the huge relief effort needed, not just now but on an ongoing basis. Given the complex logistical hurdles that need to be overcome, effective co-ordination has been recognised as something that will be a key concern. Wherever one looks, one sees Irish citizens doing their bit to raise money for the people of Haiti. For example, Leinster House staff have organised a coffee morning for next week to raise funds for the relief efforts. This morning, the Greenhills school in Drogheda visited Leins- ter House and collected money for the relief efforts. On Friday evening, I will attend a table quiz in Ashbourne to raise money. We have all seen numerous examples across the country of the best of the Irish in people who have come out and tried to raise funds. Regarding future actions, Senator Norris mentioned debt relief. Currently, the Haitian Government owes approximately $900 million. I would like to think that we all agree on the need to write that debt off. An IMF loan of $100 million has been proposed, as its mandate does not allow it to give grants. The Minister of State might clarify whether it is possible for the IMF to agree a loan and immediately write it off. Ireland is represented at the IMF by Canada in a constituency that also incorporates numerous Caribbean countries. A board meeting of the IMF is being held in Washington today. Senator Norris stated that it would be in Davos, but I understand it will be held in Washington. It will be another few hours before the board meets and, while it has probably been a long day already for the Minister of State, I suggest that a telephone call be made to the Canadian representative, who represents all of our interests, to ask him or her to impress upon the board the need to agree the loan of $100 million, write it off immediately and write off the existing debt of $890 million. It is clear that the reconstruction of Haiti will be considerably more expensive. We need to ensure that funds are put in place. I wish to discuss briefly the need to constitute a UN humanitarian relief force. Such a force was lacking previously and would have been helpful. Had there been a relief force in Rwanda, many lives could have been saved. From the analysis of Romeo Dallaire, the Canadian general sent on behalf of the UN to try to prevent the outbreak of genocide in Rwanda in the 1990s, 254 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed) it is clear that the lack of a UN rapid reaction humanitarian task force hampered the prevention efforts. A similar task force would have helped Haiti and put more people on the ground straight away. Perhaps we could learn a lesson and put something in place for the future. Natural disasters will occur, but the area of earthquake prediction must see more research. Buildings must also be better designed. If the Haitian earthquake had hit the San Andreas fault in California, we would not have seen the same level of catastrophic loss. We must learn lessons about building in regions prone to earthquakes. I do not know whether adoptions have been mentioned. While it is important that our rules not become lax in respect of adopting children who have lost parents in this tragedy, any previously agreed adoptions that are being processed could be fast-tracked with all due consideration and care for individual cases. Volunteering presents an excellent opportunity for experienced sanitation and water engineers, teachers, medical professions and so on to give of their time. I include people who have recently left employment. Experience is key. I encourage people to get in touch with relief agencies and to offer their skills on a three-month or six-month basis. Their contribution to the efforts would be extremely valuable at this time. The Labour Party will support the motion and I commend the Minister of State on his efforts to date in this respect.

Senator John Hanafin: I am pleased to support the motion and the Minister of State’s actions. Before the earthquake, Haiti was a tragedy. It has an interesting history, in that it was the first black-led republic and the first independent Caribbean state. However, everything went down- hill. The island’s former colonial masters, the French, insisted on reparations that were only completed in 1949. Billions of euro in today’s money was taken out of a fragile and poor economy. Haiti got no support. Naturally, the colonial powers believed that Haiti could have been a template for elsewhere, so they ostracised the state and ensured it would not receive any help or support. Over the years, this made a significant difference, so much so that many people’s perception of Haiti is of a country associated with the Tonton Macoute, a powerful underworld group, Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier, people who raided their state’s coffers, and voodoo. Much of this image is wrong. Unfortunately, much of it is also correct. For example, books and films like The Comedians and “Live and Let Die” portrayed the drug culture and the fear engendered in people. According to the Haitian Government, 150,000 people have died. There has been widespread destruction of infrastructure, including schools and hospitals, water and electricity supplies have been severely disrupted and there is a growing concern about the spread of disease. The Irish response has been excellent. At the outset, the Government pledged emergency 6o’clock assistance for the victims, deployed specialist emergency teams and freighted consignments of emergency supplies on behalf of the Irish people. The Government approved €600,000 in emergency funding to the UN to respond to the disaster. Given the fact that our Republic comprises 4.2 million people, the public’s generosity in giving €10 million has been outstanding. Further emergency aid is on its way and all of the major support agencies, including GOAL, Concern and the Irish Red Cross, are in Haiti supporting its people. There is nothing sinister in the way in which the Americans have come on board. Their taking control was badly needed, as there would have been a complete societal breakdown. Haiti is a country of 10 million people in 27,000 sq. km, slightly larger than Munster. Even before this disaster, aid was needed in light of Haiti’s deprivation and deforestation and its lack of business and agriculture. At least now there will be an opportunity for it to get that aid. I support Senators who asked for a Marshall aid-type plan for Haiti. If there is any nation that needs support and has had more than its fair share of man-made and natural disasters, it is Haiti. In 2004, floods killed 2,600 people. Much of the flooding owed to deforestation. When the rains came, they flowed down the mountains and people were flooded. In 2004, tropical 255 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Senator John Hanafin.] storms killed 1,900. In 2007, they triggered mudslides and floods. In 2008, three hurricanes hit Haiti and a tropical storm killed 800. Now, an earthquake has struck Port-au-Prince. The Mini- ster of State is acting correctly and swiftly, ensuring that Irish aid is co-ordinated and going to the right place. It is always a concern with aid in ensuring it goes to the right people in sufficient quantity. The next step has to be the rebuilding of Haiti. As has been achieved in many other states, it appears that it is now time to build a new city for Haiti. Port-au-Prince is built on a fault line and is in the direct line of tsunamis and hurricanes. The building of new cities has been success- fully achieved in Israel and Egypt, where whole areas have been moved from the Pyramids, creating full communities with infrastructure and community centres. This can and must be done again. The amount of aid this requires is in the region of €3 billion. In light of the supports currently available internationally, this could be reasonable. When the country is being rebuilt it should be done correctly and to the standard that is possible. This month alone, on 19 January, the national planning and building commission in Israel approved a newly planned town that will house 50,000 Israelis in the Negev. That is just one example of many towns and cities which have been rebuilt. It can be done and is possible in engineering and architectural terms. We should be part of that project and look to rebuild on the basis of what is necessary for the country. What is also necessary for that country is a government that works and a stability for that government. The constant coups and counter-coups, as well as the corruption that is endemic in the police force and public service in Haiti, must be stamped out. There must be a new and fresh start. We do not want to hear in two years that aid has been siphoned off and moneys did not get to the people living in shanty towns in areas that will be flooded when the rain comes. Ireland has a very good and proud track record in this area. We have responded immediately. It is good to see that at times when people are recognising that we are in recession, they still gave generously again. The Government, on behalf of the Irish people, also gave generously. I commend the Minister of State on his work and ask him to continue it to the next level and take an interest in a former French colony that has suffered more deprivation than most. It is now on its knees and needs help. Port-au-Prince is not the first city to be destroyed. Nagasaki and Hiroshima were destroyed and 2,000 years ago Pompeii met destruction. The capital city of Montserrat was rebuilt after a volcano erupted. It is possible in the Caribbean and now is the time for us to support the overall effort to rebuild the country. The immediate problem is to get the aid as quickly and as evenly distributed as possible so all people can benefit from it immediately. This would save lives and allow people to be settled immediately in short-term housing. We could then look to the future for Haiti, which has suffered long enough. I commend the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Power, on his continuing work.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Peter Power): I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach and Seanad Éireann for affording the time to have a discussion on this appalling catastrophe which has befallen the country and people of Haiti. I also thank Senators for their good wishes and congratulations on the Irish response. I begin by echoing the sentiments expressed by all Senators and reiterating the Government’s condolences to the people of Haiti and, in particular, those many thousands who lost loved ones in their families, such as parents and children, in the earthquake on 12 January. Our thoughts also go out to the family of Irishman Andrew Grene, to the families of all those UN personnel who lost their lives and the family of the Concern employee killed in the disaster. I recognise the presence for much of this debate of the ambassador from Cuba. What Haiti needs 256 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed) just as much as financial and humanitarian aid for many years to come is the solidarity of the global community. It will also need the help of close neighbours, including Cuba. The tragic events in Haiti have touched people all over the world. We all empathise with the families who have been torn apart, the children who have lost parents and with the many thousands who will never know for certain the fate of friends and family. News footage of bodies scattered across the streets of Port-au-Prince and Haiti’s other cities is fresh in the mind, as are the pleas of survivors for help from the international community. The precise death toll may never be fully known but it is clear that this has been one of the worst natural disasters to affect any country in over a century. It is important to emphasise at the outset that few countries could be worse equipped to deal with a disaster than Haiti. Today, just over two weeks on, the humanitarian emergency continues. Aid workers continue to struggle to provide all of those who require assistance with emergency medical care, shelter, food and water. The scale of this disaster, concentrated in such a small geographical area, is like nothing the modern world has ever seen. The death toll continues to rise and it is quite possible it could exceed that of the 2004 tsunami which devastated countries across Asia and the Pacific. As we know, this devastation is concentrated in an area much smaller than that affected by the tsunami. No single community has ever had to bear such casualties from a natural disaster and it is important to emphasise that few countries in the world were less equipped to cope with this disaster than Haiti. Ireland, along with the rest of the European Union, the United Nations and the international community, is doing everything possible to provide assistance and ensure it reaches those who need it most as quickly as possible. Our thoughts and our planning have moved from search and rescue and from the immediate relief effort to meeting the ongoing needs of the earthquake survivors and to the reconstruction of Haiti. This will take many years. The unanimous view of the Haitian Government, the United Nations, the European Com- mission and our own expert team, which returned from Haiti yesterday, is that shelter, water and sanitation will be the number one priorities in the coming weeks. Hundreds of thousands are sleeping in the open in Haiti. In Port-au-Prince they are camping in parks and other open areas surrounded by the ruins of their capital city. Many thousands of others have moved into the countryside and the hills surrounding Port-au-Prince. Since the earthquake struck the weather has remained dry and warm. However, in a matter of weeks the rainy season will begin and Haiti will face a second humanitarian crisis if emergency shelter is not provided to hundreds of thousands of people. The Government is conscious of this danger and on Monday I authorised a second Irish airlift of emergency supplies to Haiti. This consists of tents and materials for use in building temporary shelters, as well as water containers and sanitation equipment. This new consignment is in addition to the 84 tonnes which the Government sent to Haiti last week and which was distributed by Concern and GOAL. Between these two consignments the Irish taxpayer is providing a roof and basic infrastructure for more than 12,000 Haitian families. At a global level, an international conference will be held in March in New York to harness the outpouring of support for Haiti and to ensure its recovery is built on solid foundations. The European Commission has already indicated it will contribute over €300 million to the long-term reconstruction of Haiti. Ireland will participate in that international conference and I assure the House of the Government’s commitment to stand with the Haitian people in the long term as they rebuild their shattered lives and country. I acknowledge the contribution of Senator Cummins in this respect and I have made this contribution to the European Council of both foreign and development ministers in the past 257 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Peter Power.] seven days. An exact expression of the aid is not what is needed at the moment. It is a very solid and clear commitment that whatever it takes to rebuild the country on solid foundations will be done by the international community. Ireland will not be found wanting in that respect. The Government commitment reflects the desire of the Irish public to contribute to the relief of Haiti. This is clearly illustrated by the extraordinary level of generosity towards appeals from NGOs and UN agencies over the past few days. Large sums have been donated at a time when many people are feeling the effects of the recession, have lost their jobs or have seen their salaries reduced. This level of generosity towards and solidarity with the people of Haiti is something of which all of us in Ireland can be proud. My office has received many calls from members of the public asking how they can help. Every effort will be made to harness the goodwill of the Irish people and the expertise consistent with best practice and with a co- ordinated response, to which Senator Mooney and others referred. I commend every member of the public who has contributed. Their support will help relieve the suffering of thousands of Haitians. I pay particular tribute to the many Irish people working in Port-au-Prince and elsewhere in Haiti to distribute aid, provide medical attention and, wherever possible, to save lives. Many Irish people are daily risking their personal safety to bring relief to the Haitian people. All of those working with the UN, NGOs or as part of private initiatives deserve our recognition and thanks. The Irish response, at Government and non-governmental level, has been swift and decisive. Within hours of the earthquake, Irish Aid was in contact with NGOs such as Concern and GOAL to make emergency funding available to these organisations. Our mission in Geneva and our emergency and recovery unit were in communication with the UN from early morning on 12 January to assess the scale of the disaster, the likely needs and the contribution Ireland could make. By lunchtime, we had pledged €2 million to support the initial emergency relief effort, €1 million of which was allocated to a UN emergency appeal for Haiti. Of this money, €300,000 each was immediately paid out to the World Food Programme and the Office for the Co-ordination of Humanitarian Affairs, which is co-ordinating the international relief effort. A further €250,000 was paid out to the Red Cross and the remainder of this funding is being channelled through NGOs such as Concern and GOAL. In addition, two members of the Irish Aid rapid response corps have deployed to Haiti. The deployment of these individuals can only be made at the request of the UN, consistent with the co-ordinator’s response and on which many Members touched. The two members are an electrical engineer and an IT expert who have been assigned to the World Food Programme. Other rapid response corps members with specialised skills in engineering, logistics and water and sanitation are on stand-by and we expect them to be called upon in the coming days and weeks. Corps volunteers provide highly specialised skills to humanitarian agencies operating in crisis situations and can be deployed within days or even hours of a disaster. Another corps member — a Defence Forces engineer — travelled to Haiti with the Irish Aid technical mission, which I dispatched last week to assess how Ireland can best contribute to the international relief effort. I will shortly meet the team to hear their recommendations on how we should direct our funding. These will be central to our approach to the ongoing humanitarian situation in Haiti, as well as to our pledge at the international conference on Haiti next March in New York. The total value of the Government response, both financially and in kind, is well in excess of €3 million. This figure will undoubtedly increase further as the full picture of Haiti’s needs becomes clearer in the weeks leading up to the international conference. This is in addition to our ongoing contributions to the UN’s central emergency response fund, which was established, 258 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed) with our assistance, following the 2004 tsunami to provide the UN with a ready pool of emergency funding for crises such as that in Haiti. The lessons of the tsunami have been learned and are being put into effect. Within days of the earthquake, the UN drew down US$25 million to fund the international relief operation and the Irish Aid team has praised its quick impact in the disaster zone. Ireland was one of the countries which pressed for the establishment of the fund. We have contributed €73 million since it was set up in 2006, including €20 million last year. I expect that much of that funding is currently being drawn down to manage the immediate emergency and relief effort. We can be proud that our funds are helping to save thousands of lives in Haiti, as they have in other disaster areas across the globe. The Government and my Department drew many lessons from the 2004 tsunami. In the aftermath of that enormous tragedy, we reflected on how we could respond more quickly and more effectively to future disasters. We identified those parts of our own system which could be improved, and put in place the structures which have allowed us to react quickly to the Haiti disaster. We established the rapid response corps to meet the need for highly specialised skills in a major emergency and to harness the enormous talent and volunteer spirit which exists in Irish society. We developed emergency stockpiles of humanitarian materials in depots around the globe, precisely in order that we could react as we have done. Today in Haiti, thousands of people are receiving lifesaving supplies as a result of this initiative driven by the Irish Govern- ment and distributed by Irish aid agencies. The Irish response is part of a combined EU relief effort in Haiti totalling €122 million and agreed at an emergency meeting of the Foreign Affairs Council, which I attended in Brussels last week. In addition to this financial support, the EU provided 400 rescue workers from a variety of EU countries, as well as field hospitals, medical posts and nearly 300 medical personnel. It was also agreed this week that the EU would provide 300 police officers to reinforce the UN presence in Haiti and provide the stability necessary for the reconstruction effort. Although the debt cancellation to which some Members referred is not strictly within my remit, I will convey the strong views of the House to the Minister for Finance on the issue. While there has been some criticism of the speed of the international response, the difficulties in getting supplies and workers into Haiti are substantial and were exacerbated by the almost total destruction of Haiti’s infrastructure. In a disaster of this severity, humanitarian aid, no matter how swift, can never be quick enough to help the suffering. Even before the earthquake, Haiti had only the most basic transport and communication network. The little that existed was severely damaged, meaning that the international relief effort had to begin almost from scratch. Every government ministry was destroyed. This country was almost unique in its inability to deal with a crisis of this scale and magnitude. The Irish Aid team, which observed the relief effort at first hand, has praised the efforts of the United Nations to co-ordinate the hundreds of agencies operating in Haiti. However, it is an unfortunate fact that the scale of the disaster, combined with the weakness of Haiti’s infrastructure and the sheer number of groups participating in the operation, overwhelmed the UN’s co-ordination capacity in the initial aftermath. Many hundreds of UN workers who were in Haiti at the time were killed. The UN co-ordination in Haiti was decapitated almost instan- taneously and this must be taken into account. Co-ordination is critical in the global and international response to a disaster of this magnitude. Senators Ormonde, Norris and Mooney made informed comments on this aspect. Some- thing of the scale and magnitude of this disaster, the like of which has not been seen for over a century, needs a global, co-ordinated response. It is something we addressed at length at the 259 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Deputy Peter Power.] EU co-ordination meetings of the Foreign Affairs Council and the meeting of development Ministers last week. I wish I had had the benefit of Senator Mooney’s helpful report to inform my contribution at that meeting. I have had the opportunity to read the report since and I commend Senator Mooney on its incisive and instructive comments. I wish to draw three real distinctions with regard to co-ordination of the global response in this respect. It depends on number of factors and is predicated on three phases of the disaster. First, there is the initial, immediate response to the chaos caused in Port-au-Prince. Second, there is the short-term humanitarian need once the recovery effort is completed. We are now at that stage. There is also the medium-term response over the next few months but there is also a long-term response. Each one of these responses requires co-ordination of different types and depends on a number of factors. Most important is the proximity of a major power such as the United States, which had the military and logistical capability, proximity to the disaster zone and the ability to deploy thousands of people in an organised way in a very short period. I echo the comments made by a number of Senators that the US Government, President Obama and the US military made a significant contribution towards the immediate emergency relief effort. It is fair and proper that this is acknowledged. That does not mean that a military force should co-ordinate the humanitarian effort in the short term following the initial chaos. That is not best practice. It should be co-ordinated by a global organisation such as the United Nations. This has the legitimacy of the international community. This is something we will return to repeatedly. The response must be highly co-ordinated and we must learn from the lessons of the tsunami. Sometimes hundreds and thousands of aid agencies arriving in a disaster zone in a short period can create more problems than it solves. That is why co-ordination is very important. When the cameras leave Port-au-Prince and the journalists dwindle to a small number, the real relief effort will come into place. That is when the work that will benefit millions of people in Haiti will begin and this must stand the test of time. Global organisations such as the United Nations, the United States and the European Union, proven actors in the development and reconstruction business, need to step up to the mark because that is when the real work will be done. This must be done in a co-ordinated way. This should be done through one unified delivery mechanism, almost separate from the existing mechanisms. I have not formed definite opinions in this respect, nor has the Government, but it might be worthy of debate in this House and in the Lower House in time to come. Co-ordination of the relief effort has improved from the tsunami, as witnessed by the more efficient distribution of aid in recent days. However, many agencies in Haiti are operating independently of the UN co-ordination structures. It is clear there will be much to learn from the way the international community reacted to this crisis, how its response was organised and how its co-ordinating structures can be improved. The Haiti earthquake has shocked the world by its scale and intensity. Television cameras could barely convey the sheer magnitude of the catastrophe. When the cameras have gone, the suffering will continue for many years. During this period the Irish people can be certain that Irish Aid, the people’s aid organisation, will stand in solidarity with the Haitian people. Haiti cannot manage this enormous task by itself. It will require financial support, programme support, specialised skills and know-how. For Ireland and the rest of the international community, the challenge will be to remain with Haiti as it makes the slow transition from relief to reconstruction and development. As its resilient people pick up the pieces of their shattered lives and start to build for the future, I assure the House that Ireland will be equal to the challenge.

Senator Nicky McFadden: I apologise for being late for the speech of the Minister of State. I wish to share time with my colleague, Senator Regan. 260 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

I heard an interesting discussion on the radio this morning. A Haitian gentleman was inter- viewed and he spoke passionately about how this was the fault of the white people. His frus- tration was palpable when he asked what we were doing. He spoke about the lack of shelter on the golf course in the centre of Port-au-Prince where the non-governmental organisations, the UN and the US Army are milling around. Sheets that we use on our beds are what they use for protection against the blazing sun. They are all getting sunburnt and becoming dehy- drated because they do not have enough water. There are horrendous problems with sanitation. What will happen in the next few days? The rain will come. This is what was said on the radio by people who know better than me. Human excrement now being buried will flood through the camp which houses thousands of people. I do not accept for one minute that things have improved. This is an outrage. I commend the Irish people and I commend the Minister of State on the work he has done. An amount of money is coming in but there is a lack of logistical evidence. Basic necessities are needed, including water, shelter and sanitation. I do not agree with the Minister of State when he says the US Army is the wrong organisation for this job. How can the Minister of State be so sure it should be the UN? How is that organisation leading from the front? I agree with the statement of Mr. John O’Shea when he speaks about a global fire brigade. We need one strong organisation that can deal with these eventualities. Unfortunately, there will be more. Haiti has already suffered from hurricanes, after which $1 million of international funds was pledged. However, it has not been forthcoming. These unfortunate people will experience further disasters. People have already been injured in subsequent tremors. I agree with what Mr. O’Shea says because NGOs can give the love and concern that Irish people want to give because our hearts are broken for these people. However, we need strong logistics to distribute aid. That is not forthcoming. I am also concerned about the fact that people are still buried but the searches have stopped. A person was found this morning. That is not very good co-ordination. Why are they not searching for more people? Every day they find one more person and in my naive mind I assume there are more people alive. My colleague and Fine Gael spokesperson on foreign affairs, Deputy Timmins, received the unanimous support of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs for his proposal to forgive Haiti’s sovereign debt. I propose that we make a similar request in this House. I was struck by the story of the man who lived with his five children under a thin sheet. I do not accept that the logistical operation is working efficiently enough.

Senator Eugene Regan: I thank the Minister of State for his comprehensive report on what has been done thus far by Ireland and the EU to deal with the Haitian disaster. Haiti is a unique state with a long history of political instability and natural disasters, of which this earthquake is the most dramatic instance. That the country’s plight has given rise to extraordinary generosity in a time of recession in this country and elsewhere is gratifying. It is also heartening to see the efforts of personnel from Concern, GOAL and other Irish NGOs to bring food and medical supplies to the people who need their assistance. I was struck by the amount of aid provided by Europe. The United States has made an extraordinary contribution but the EU is also playing a significant role. It is providing approximately €120 million in direct aid as well as €300 million for long-term reconstruction. This is relevant to the debates we have had on the Lisbon treaty and whether Europe is a force for good. The aid provided by the EU compares very favourably to the US contribution of $90 million, including $22 million in non-food assistance. This response demonstrates the effective- ness of the European Commission and other EU institutions in responding to disasters.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: I wish to share time with Senator Daly, by agreement. 261 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: Is that agreed? Agreed.

Senator Labhrás Ó Murchú: I commend the Minister of State on the role he has played in Ireland’s response to this terrible tragedy. We are not strangers to tragedy on a vast scale. It was asked in regard to the Great Famine why other people did not help us in our hour of need. Those who came to our assistance have since become part of our folklore. The full extent of this tragedy and its effect on the people of Haiti are beyond our human imagination. This is one of the reasons we have seen such generosity from the Government and people of Ireland. The problems in Haiti will not be resolved in a few months or years. The March meeting to which the Minister of State referred will be important in this regard. I hope the urgency with which the meeting was arranged is an indication of the attention which will be brought to Haiti in the coming years but I fear the great powers will be distracted by other matters before long. I cannot imagine anything which could distract us from this tragedy. I see some good coming out of the earthquake, although I regret that it is at the expense of the people of Haiti. It is an exceptionally poor country which has been bedevilled by both national and international politics. While the tragedy could not have been avoided even if conditions there had been different, the possibility of recovery might have been greater. Outside actors, such as the EU and the United States, will only be able to intervene from a distance and recovery will be much slower in the absence of local structures. There was no sadder sight than the starving people of Port- au-Prince seeking help. As they were unable to restrain themselves, further penance was inflicted upon them. I do not blame anybody for this because order has to prevail. If we can get a positive message from the disaster it is that we are working for peace rather than war. If countries which are able to declare wars and move aircraft and troops to flash points at very short notice brought the same urgency to bear on peaceful missions, they would make significant progress. I recall the television images of the invasion of Iraq, which were like a video game, and the bombs dropped on that country. Hundreds of thousands of people died in the early days of the invasion. I do not want to score political points when I praise the Minister of State for his response. I hope we will find a mechanism to keep the issue alive. In many ways, people look to Ireland for symbolism. It is strange that we have never been responsible for hostile acts against other countries. We occupy an unique role in this regard. Our international status is as givers of assistance rather than invaders. We could prompt bigger powers to continue providing assistance to Haiti, which could take as long as ten years to rebuild. However long it takes, I hope we can help to bring change. I know the Government will, in each forum in which we are represented, stand up with strength of character, based on our own history, and ensure it never drops to the bottom of the agenda. We will not talk about tokenism but we will talk about conclusive investments and assistance. There is a lot to be said for the voluntary corps. If a structure is available to them, many people in this country would give part of their time and skills to help. That would be true of other countries, but it will only work if a proper co- ordinating body is in place.

Senator Mark Daly: As Senator Ó Murchú pointed out, this country is well aware of the consequences of disaster. Having gone through the Famine, this has inspired us as a nation to help others in the sort of situation in which Haiti now finds itself. One of the most telling remarks in the entire history of the Irish Famine was uttered by that famous Englishman, Lord Trevelyan, when he decided to cut all aid and said that the situation in Ireland would be left to the operation of natural causes. This condemned many millions of Irish people to their graves. As a result, the Irish people even in this time of recession will once again step up to the mark. The Minister of State made an important point about the need for both immediate and long-term action. When Haiti is no longer making the 6 o’clock or 9 o’clock news or the 262 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed) newspaper headlines, there will be a need for a long-term agency to oversee not only the rebuilding of the infrastructure but also the rebuilding of the Government of Haiti. Unfortu- nately, Haiti does not have a great history of good governance and it is one of the poorest countries in the world. This earthquake has shaken it back into the Stone Age. There has been some criticism of the response but the response is never good enough and it is never fast enough. On the Order of Business on another day, I commended the United States on its efforts. Too often the United States is lambasted for its actions but when it does good on behalf of people near and far, it should be praised for its efforts. Cuba and the Dominican Republic are playing a significant role in assisting the delivery of aid from Trócaire, GOAL and Concern to those who need it most. Trócaire has been in Haiti since 1991 and much of its good work is now in ruins but will need to be rebuilt again. The second airlift announced by the Minister of State is to be welcomed. However, it is the Haiti of ten years’ hence which will be decided in March. Ireland will be represented by the Minister of State who will make his views known. Whether the UN or a European, American or Caribbean effort will be decided upon, it is certain that an agency with a powerful chief executive will be required to elicit the funds which are currently being pledged. Too often it is the case that funds are pledged but the cheques are never written. A person of the calibre of Bill Clinton, who showed his concern for Haiti, would be needed to lead in the rebuilding of the country. The Minister of State’s suggestion of a dedicated and well-funded agency is what is required in the long term.

Senator Joe O’Toole: I wish to share my time with Senator Paddy Burke.

Acting Chairman (Senator Maurice Cummins): That is agreed.

Senator Joe O’Toole: I congratulate the Minister of State on the comprehensive outline he gave Members. I thank him for the composed manner in which he has dealt with this issue in the media and his avoidance of grandstanding, so to speak. This is not surprising because in my dealings with the Minister of State on behalf of another continent, I have always found him to be aware well-informed and committed to his brief. The details of Haitian history have been well rehearsed by a number of speakers, including Senator Norris, Senator Hanafin and others. However, an issue has arisen in the context of the discussion about the roles of the UN and the United States and the criticism of the United Nations. We should call a spade a spade in this discussion. I agree the United States is doing excellent work in Haiti. I ask the Minister of State to say how much is owed to the United Nations by the United States. Before we criticise the United Nations, it should be borne in mind that the biggest problem for the United Nations is that it is not a democratic body. The UN Security Council is not democratically elected and its members are there by right in the case of certain countries. If every state in the world had an independent vote in the United Nations, even a weighted vote relating to population as is the case in Europe or a need for a qualified majority vote, then all the issues which Senator McFadden referred to would have been dealt with. The UN is not able to do the things it wants to do because it does not have the full support of all the nations of the world, in particular the United States. I do not wish to be critical but I am using the United States as an example. In the International Criminal Court, China and the United States are the two biggest abstainers. It was interesting to hear on last night’s “Newsnight” a commentator make the point that these days, the former British Prime Minister, Mr. Blair, must be keenly aware of where his plane might land because he might be arrested for crimes against humanity by a country which would bring him before the International Criminal Court. I am not for one moment saying that will happen but this is the difference and these are the issues. It is very easy for John O’Shea, much as I admire him, to be critical of various aspects of aid but it is just not that simple. Many of us could take a simplistic line and ask why there are so 263 Haiti Disaster: 27 January 2010. Motion (Resumed)

[Senator Joe O’Toole.] many competing aid agencies in Ireland, all of whom are superb, and question whether there is replication of administration and fund-raising and competition between them. These are issues we need to examine closely. There should be a soft debate on the relationship of the United States with the UN in an effort to bring the United States fully in support of, fully committed and subservient to the UN but without threatening the national identity of that country. I have listened to many speakers speak about the great surge of support throughout Ireland for Haiti. We all know there is latent racism in Ireland and I wonder where it goes to at these times. Do we all need to learn from each other and together? Is it a common worry about a part of the world that makes us look at people as human beings rather than considering the colour of their skin or the fact that they might be a threat to us? This is relevant today on the anniversary of Auschwitz. The Canadian Prime Minister has taken a very positive role in this issue. He is putting together a group in North America and asking people around the world to commit funds and support that will be delivered. I remember the last time in Gleneagles when so much money was grandstanded, so to speak, and they all met Bono and they were going to save the world but it was slow in coming and much of it has never been delivered. In this situation, at least, if people give commitments, they should only be acknowledged when we have the cheque in our hands. That is the way forward. The debate has been stimulating and important. It is good that we can take different angles on it. I commend the work of the Minister of State and urge him to continue it. The elephant in the room is the importance of overseas development aid, ODA, and our commitment to reach the famous figure of 0.7%. I accept our level of ODA has improved in recent times. I do not go along with those who mindlessly criticise the Government. I know there are other demands on us and can understand why things have slowed down, but it is important that we confirm that reaching the figure of 0.7% is our aim, although the rate of reaching it has slowed down.

Senator Paddy Burke: I thank Senator O’Toole for sharing his time with me. I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Peter Power, and congratulate him on the work he is doing. An unbelievable disaster has taken place in Haiti. The Minister of State has outlined how the Government and his Department, in particular, have drawn many lessons from the tsunami in 2004. It is great that we have learned from the past about what to do in such disasters. Reference was made to the rapid response unit and the stockpiles of humanitarian assistance material stationed in depots around the globe. These measures allowed us to act swiftly in response to what happened in Haiti. It is great that the Minister of State has drawn lessons from the past in order to allow us to respond more quickly to disasters. He is to be congratulated in that regard. This country has experienced tough times in the past two years in terms of the high level of unemployment, the depression affecting people with big bank loans and huge debts and a loss of jobs. People are to be congratulated, therefore, on how they have responded to the crisis in Haiti. Some have volunteered to help in the relief effort and paid their own way to Haiti. The resilience of people in this country is unbelievable. They are to be sincerely congratulated. In particular, I congratulate a person from Westport, Ms Gena Heraty, who is working tirelessly on behalf of the people of Haiti. Mr. Paul Claffey of Midwest Radio is hosting an auction in Westport in the next couple of days to which people are being asked to bring material. The money collected will go straight to Ms Heraty in Haiti. That is a great initiative undertaken by Mr. Claffey on behalf of people in the western region who will bring goods to be auctioned in 264 Site 27 January 2010. Acquisitions order that funds can be sent to Ms Heraty who knows best what to do with the money in her area. I also congratulate the many doctors, nurses and lay people who have gone to Haiti at their own expense to help this cause. People in this country are resilient, especially as we have had our own disasters, not least the one affecting the economy, but also the flooding in Athlone, Galway, Cork and many other areas throughout the country. People have given an amount of goods to these causes, not to mention in this case, on which they are to be congratulated.

Senator Ann Ormonde: I appreciate the Minister of State’s interest in the matter under discussion. He listened to the contribution of each Member, as was clear from the way he responded to the matter and the comments of various speakers. It shows clearly that he understands the problem very well. What happened in Haiti was a massive disaster. People have lost their loved ones, their houses and possessions. Children who have been left as orphans need our help. I am pleased the Minister of State knows how to respond. Certain points made by the Minister of State will require further reflection by us. He has indicated that two members of the rapid response corps were deployed to Haiti, namely, an electrical engineer and an IT expert. The third member was a Defence Forces engineer. The Minister of State said he would await their return to hear their recommendations on how the disaster relief effort was progressing. He will then decide on how we can best move forward in terms of the way in which the Government is monitoring the aid effort in conjunction with the aid agencies which are to be congratulated. Many of the agencies working with the Government are doing great work. I listened to some of them this afternoon. The main concern coming through their contributions relates to co-ordination. Because the undertaking is so massive the relief approach has splintered. That is the nature of the problem. A co-ordination centre is required to monitor the relief work. I welcome the work being done in Haiti by the European Union, the United Nations humanitarian section and all other bodies, including the United States military forces. All of these groups have to be knitted together in some way to ensure the provision of shelter, food, water and sanitation equipment. I accept we are working on this but co-ordination is 7o’clock required. I urge the Minister of State to reinforce these points. Concern emerged in the debate about co-ordination and how our funding was being received on the ground in Haiti. In this regard, much work remains to be done. I compliment everyone involved, especially the Minister of State. I am happy that he is monitoring the approach of the Government and know that he will be vigilant in his work. I thank him for his contribution.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach: When is it proposed to sit again?

Senator Ann Ormonde: Tomorrow at 10.30 a.m.

Adjournment Debate.

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Site Acquisitions. Senator Frances Fitzgerald: I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Haughey, to the House. I thank him for the opportunity to raise the need for the Minister for Education and Science to outline what progress has been made on the acquisition of sites required by St. Andrew’s primary school and Esker Educate Together primary school in Lucan. I would also like the 265 Site 27 January 2010. Acquisitions

[Senator Frances Fitzgerald.] Minister of State to update the House on the progress that has been made between the Depart- ment of Education and Science and the Office of Public Works in this regard. Both of these schools have been waiting a long time for sites to be provided by the Depart- ment. Great credit is due to the teachers and the principals for continuing to work in what have been very difficult circumstances. For example, St. Andrew’s school, which I visited last week, has 235 children in attendance who have been taught in very overcrowded and cold classrooms. The principal, teachers and staff are doing their very best to assist students in being educated but the situation is difficult for all involved. Esker Educate Together school opened its doors more recently. A serious shortage of places in west Dublin has led to the recognition of an Educate Together school at Esker in south Lucan to cater for 170 children, which is very important. Educate Together is assisting the Department in meeting the education needs of Lucan. There is an obligation on the Depart- ment to recognise the work of Educate Together and to help it get the necessary site for the school to grow and develop fully. I know the Department has been in discussions with the Office of Public Works and South Dublin County Council in regard to finding sites for these two schools. I look forward to the Minister of State’s response on whatever progress has been made in this regard.

Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science (Deputy Seán Haughey): I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of my colleague, the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O’Keeffe. I thank the Senator for raising this matter as it provides me with the opportunity to outline to the Seanad the position regarding the acquisition of sites for St. Andrew’s primary school and Esker Educate Together primary school in Lucan, County Dublin. The forward planning section of the Department has carried out a study of the country to identify the areas where, due to demographic changes, there may be a requirement for significant additional school provision at both primary and post-primary levels over the coming years. This study has been conducted using data from the Central Statistics Office, the General Regis- ter Office and the Department of Social and Family Affairs in addition to recent schools’ enrolment data. The study indicates that the requirement for additional primary provision in years 2010, 2011 and 2012 is likely to be greatest in more than 40 selected locations throughout the country, based on significant changes to the demographics of those areas. The forward planning section is in the process of carrying out detailed analysis and reports for each of these locations to identify the school accommodation requirements for each area up to and including the school year 2014-15. School accommodation requirements in the Lucan area and its environs will be considered as part of this detailed study of the more than 40 areas identified. It is expected that the report on the Lucan area will be completed in the coming weeks. Any proposed schools building projects in Lucan, arising from the detailed analysis of the area, will be considered in the context of the Department’s multi-annual school building and modernisation programme for 2010 and subsequent years. Turning to the specific schools in question and with particular reference to St. Andrew’s national school, I can confirm that the Office of Public Works was asked to source a site for this school. A report was received from the OPW which outlined a number of site options. The Department wrote to South Dublin County Council attaching correspondence it had received from the OPW regarding one of the sites in question. The local authority has responded indicating its favourable views in regard to a proposed location and this is now under consideration.

266 Tourism 27 January 2010. Promotion

With regard to Esker Educate Together, this school is sharing a purpose-built facility with another school. It is the Department’s intention to accommodate the school permanently in its own accommodation. With this in mind, officials have been in ongoing discussions with the local authority on the matter. Owing to commercial sensitivities attaching to site acquisitions generally, the Senator will appreciate that I am not in a position to comment further on the details of the matter until such time as the acquisitions have been completed. The further progression of the acquisition of the sites will be considered in the context of the capital budget available to the Department for school buildings generally. I thank the Senator once again for affording me the opportunity to outline to the House the current position in regard to the acquisition of sites for St. Andrew’s national school, Lucan, and for Esker Educate Together school, Lucan.

Tourism Promotion. Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: I wish the Minister of State well for the new year, as I have not met him since we came back. I presume he is taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism.

Deputy Seán Haughey: Yes.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Given that, will the Minister of State outline the Govern- ment’s range of commitments, including financial support, which the Department will know is €6 million, to enable Galway to win back the Volvo Ocean Race for 2012? This was an extremely successful experience for Galway and for Ireland in 2009. To touch on some of the highlights which have come from both economic and media evaluation of the race, €55.8 million was the total economic impact on Galway and Ireland. This was measured outside of a 40-mile radius of Galway city, which does not even take into account how Galway city benefited. Some €36.5 million was spent by race spectators who came from outside the local region. There were 269 media representatives from all over the world. Having visited the Volvo base quite a number of times myself, it was fascinating to go into the media room where there were 200 journalists at desks. It was crawling with them. It was wonderful to see the world interest in the Volvo Ocean Race. It had a print readership and radio listenership of 234 million and a 1.327 billion global television audience. Some 99% of the people surveyed from outside the region said they would recommend Galway as a potential holiday destination. We are looking for €6 million from the Government to bring the stopover of this event back to Galway and Ireland. In 2009 the hosting of this event generated €55 million. Given the investment in it, that is a ratio of 9:1. For every euro invested in it, the economy got €9 and within the same year. What investment can the Minister of State think of today that would yield that return? We are forming a world-known iconic brand in Galway and maritime activity with a stopover of the Volvo Ocean Race. The amount of smart thinking behind this is typified by Tourism Ireland. It uses the opportunity to host marketing promotions in a series of ports where there were stopovers in the Volvo Ocean Race such as Alicante, Cape Town and Boston. Other Irish organisations such as Bord Bia, Enterprise Ireland and IDA Ireland used Ireland’s involvement in the Volvo Ocean Race as a networking opportunity. The total attendance at the race village and Salthill during the in-port and departure weekends was 650,000. Some 87,000 non-locals visited Galway, 68,000 of whom stayed in the region. The average local person visited the Volvo Ocean Race stopover 4.2 times. I was unaware of this statistic, but I probably went there five times during the course of the two weeks. It is significant that 90% of the visitors to the locality had no 267 Tourism 27 January 2010. Promotion

[Senator Fidelma Healy Eames.] active interest in sailing. That is an interesting finding because it brought more people into an understanding of the maritime sector, our coastline and that wonderful resource. The chairman of Fáilte Ireland said that the Galway stopover of the Volvo Ocean Race attracted the biggest audience for Irish tourism ever, a bigger audience than the Ryder Cup in 2006. It showcased Ireland as a high quality destination and he believes that the Volvo festival has further increased Ireland’s chances of hosting future world class events. Little did we know that the opportunity would land in our lap again to do the same thing. The Minister for Art, Sports and Tourism, Deputy Cullen, said the same thing. We look to him to provide the €6 million funding needed. This brings me to the important points. We are one of the three final bidders. The decision is being made this week. We are up against Lorient in France and Lisbon in Portugal. In both cases, their governments are backing their bids. Serious competition exists, yet we in Galway know that we are the front runner and the Volvo Ocean Race organisers want to come back here. However, it will not come back unless the Government is willing to fund the hosting fee. If were to attract Formula One to Ireland, there would be a hosting fee. The question has arisen as to whether private funding is available. Yes, there is but that private funding will not jump the fence until they know there is a commitment by the Government to bring it back. What better income generators could the Government get now for the Exchequer in terms of taxes and VAT than an event such as this? The hosting fee is all that is needed. The private owners of the boat are willing to put up the boat again at a cost of €4 million and they are also willing to run the boat. When I spoke to John Killeen today, who was the vision for this event and one of the key people behind this bid and the Let’s do it Galway campaign and the Volvo Ocean Race, he said that they are willing to enter into a matching funding relationship. In other words, for the €6 million the Government would put up, they would ensure equal funding was provided through the provision of the boat, the cost of running of it and that side of it. There is a great deal to be gained from doing this. I look forward to the Minister of State giving me good news. We are looking a gift horse in the mouth. It is a no-brainer. I do not know how we will ever come to terms with this if the answer is “No” from the Government. I look forward to hearing the Minister of State’s response.

Deputy Seán Haughey: I am taking this Adjournment matter on behalf of the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism, Deputy Cullen. I thank Senator Healy Eames for raising this issue, as I welcome this opportunity to advise the House on recent developments on the possibility of Galway again hosting a stopover of the Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012. The 2009 stopover of the Volvo Ocean Race in Galway was a very successful event, as the Senator outlined. An economic impact study of the stopover, carried out by Deloitte, found it had a significant favourable impact for the State and the western region in particular. The study found that the overall impact of the Volvo Ocean Race on Ireland was €56 million, almost double the expected impact. I understand the study concluded that the higher than forecasted economic impact was mainly due to the higher than expected number of overseas visitors. The 2009 Galway stopover was strongly supported by the Government, with funding being provided through the Fáilte Ireland international sports tourism initiative. Some €5 million was provided in 2008 and a further €3 million in 2009 as part of the total Government funding commitment to secure the stopover. The total funding of €8 million provided by Ireland com- prised a port rights fee of €5 million, seed funding of €2million to activate the Irish team and secure branding on the boat, and €1 million towards the building of a number of infrastructure 268 Tourism 27 January 2010. Promotion items such as pontoons which have remained in place as a legacy after the event. The matter of applying to the organisers of the Volvo Ocean Race to host a stopover of the event is the responsibility of the host port rather than the Government. In late 2009, Let’s Do It Global, the Irish corporate promoters of the event, approached the Government seeking very substantial financial support of €9 million for a bid for Galway to host a stopover of the Volvo Ocean Race 2011-2012. Since then, that proposal and a more recent revised proposal for €6 million have been considered by the Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and representatives of other relevant Departments and State agencies. There is general support across Departments and agencies for a stopover. However, funding of the level required from outside the existing budget allocations is not readily available for the project. As Senators will appreciate, the current overall Exchequer position is not favourable towards the provision of funding for large-scale sports tourism events. There are pressures on the tourism services budget of the Department and that position is unlikely to change in the next few years. I am also aware that the current commercial funding environment is difficult and I fully understand why the promoters wish to first secure a commitment to public funds to provide a more attractive and persuasive proposition to potential commercial sponsors. That said, the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism believes that the confirmation of one or several private sector sponsors at this stage would be essential to strengthen the promoters’ case for State support. The Department of Arts, Sport and Tourism and Fáilte Ireland have always acknowledged that a stopover presents the possibility to again leverage significant economic and pro- motional benefits across sectors and interests. I understand that the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism wrote to the promoters today putting forward certain views and seeking certain information and assurances in order for the proposal to be properly examined. I gather that a reply was received later this afternoon which, I am informed, is being considered. I will bring to the Minister’s attention the points made by the Senator in this debate.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: We are in great agreement except I do not have the money yet. I note the Minister of State said:

There is general support across the Departments and agencies for a stopover. However, funding of the level required from outside the existing budget allocations is not readily available for the project.

What are the existing budget allocations that are readily available?

Acting Chairman (Senator Geraldine Feeney): Does the Minister of State have that information?

Deputy Seán Haughey: No, I do not have that information, nor do I have the information——

Acting Chairman: Could I stop the Minister of State? That question is more suitable for Question Time, but it is not Question Time. I indicated the Senator could come in briefly with a comment to the Minister, rather than putting questions to him.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Generally, Senators are allowed to ask a supplementary question.

Acting Chairman: Perhaps the Senator should have submitted her query in a question-like form when she was tabling the matter. 269 The 27 January 2010. Adjournment

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: The discussion on the Adjournment is very general and encompasses quite a lot.

Acting Chairman: All right.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: It is helpful.

Acting Chairman: I will allow the Minister of State to continue.

Deputy Seán Haughey: I do not have that information to hand. In fact, I do not have details of the communication that occurred today——

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: Yes, I see that.

Deputy Seán Haughey: ——which I presume would enlighten us further. However, I will endeavour to provide the information to the Senator through the Minister’s office.

Senator Fidelma Healy Eames: I would appreciate that. What I really wanted to know was when a final decision would be made.

Acting Chairman: That information will be passed on.

The Seanad adjourned at 7.20 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Thursday, 28 January 2010.

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