Interview with Samuel Holmes Interviewer: Kerry Owens Transcriber: Kerry Owens Date of Interview: March 10, 1986 Location: A-J Leasing Company Office, 6500 Middle Fiskville Road, Austin, TX _____________________ Begin Tape 1, Side 1 Kerry Owens: We’re at A-J Leasing, which is Sam’s office, where he works, and we’re doing the interview there. In the interview, if something is left out, if it’s omitted, and we’re going to go back later and fill it in, then I’ll just indicate that with brackets. If there is something that’s left out or a sentence that’s not complete or something to that effect, I’ll just use three dots to indicate that. And, if there’s something that I don’t understand the spelling, etcetera, I’ll just leave a blank and get that information from Sam, and we’ll go back in and fill that in later. Okay, this is Kerry Owens. The first part of that didn’t record. I’m doing an interview for Southwest Texas State University Oral History Project. I’m interviewing Sam Holmes, a porter at A-J Leasing, and I gave the introduction. And [I] also would like to say that Sam and I have discussed this interview to a degree prior to the interview, and he was a bit concerned that he might be asked in some way to compromise on information, but he understands that anything that he wants to edit can be taken out of the tape, and also, Sam, if there is something that you don’t, information that you wouldn’t mind being included at a future date, but you don’t necessarily want it included now, you can put a seal on it for any period of time. You can put a seal on it for a year, five years, ten years, twenty years, if you would like. So, you have a lot of flexibility. You will see the transcript before it goes to the archives at Southwest Texas. So, do you have any questions on what is going to happen after I type it up? You understand that you can go over it and ask me to omit anything that you would like. Or at any time during this interview you can ask me to erase something on the tape. You can go back over and listen to the tape, whatever you would like to do. Samuel Holmes: That, so far, seems reasonable. We’ll take it from here. Owens: Okay, all right. We’ll go ahead then and start the interview now. Sam is from Austin, and you’ve lived here all of your life. You were born here, right? Holmes: Right. Owens: Austin’s changed a lot since you can remember. What would you say of your memories of Austin, what were your first memories as a child that really stand out? Samuel Holmes Interview, March 10, 1986 1 Texas 150 Oral History Collection. University Archives, Texas State University Holmes: Well, that would take some thinking, but as a child growing up here, you see, we lived in an integrated neighborhood. The only thing that was segregated was the schools that we went to and the parks that we had to play in, or transportation. But as a child growing up, it’s very much excitement takes place here in Austin at that time because it wasn’t anything happening to that extent. But, I can remember this: I know that we sold papers on Sundays. People had a paper route. That was a pretty good activity for young ones at that time. But, along about ‘35 or ’36, we had the flood here in Austin, and at that time, I was eleven or twelve, but anyhow, this one particular night. That day we had been down to the river because that was the talk of the town then, and Montopolis Bridge had washed away. I can remember that bridge when I was little. Big long, iron bridge that went across the Colorado River, right there where Monotoplis Bridge is now. They had a big ole iron bridge that went right across that water. Well, that flood washed that bridge out, and that was exciting, and to see all in the water at that time. And even in downtown Austin, the Congress Avenue Bridge now, water was lapping over that bridge. So, if you could picture in your mind the level of water at the top of that bridge, if you could picture in your mind all of the business places that, out in the South Austin area, there now, there where the Nighthawk burned down, all those areas over there. All [of] that was under water. And even where all the places that had built up along the river now, they wouldn’t dare build there because of the flood. But anyhow, what was exciting about it to me was that they had a street, East Avenue is where I-35 is now, and that was a double highway on both sides, and that went all the way down to First Street. And that water was so high until we could swim in that water right there on Fourth Street, Fourth and East Avenue. If you can picture in your mind where Fourth Street is now, and how far the river is down there now, it will give you some idea as to the devastation of that flood. But anyway, what was interesting about it. We were— I guess around 8:30 or 9:00 that evening and the paperman, John, he was Caucasian, he would always bring us the paper out on Sundays for us to take and sell. But he come down there that night, it might have been a Friday night or Saturday night, I don’t recall what night it was. But anyway, he come down there, we were playing, and he say, “Look,” he say, “I want y’all to go sell some paper tonight.” I said, “Sell paper tonight, this late, you can’t sell no papers this time of the night, John.” He said, “Look, this is an extra.” “Extra, what’s the extra all about?” Well, what had happened was some thirty people had got drownded down at Hornsby’s Bend, down on the river, and we had that extra, and we went out, and we were hollering, “Extra, extra, read all about it, thirty people missing on Hornsby’s Bend.” And you talk about the people coming out, buying those papers. That to me, that was just fascinating. People, the people who did have electricity at that time. You’d see lights come on. And I could hear people calling, “Hey, hey, bring me the paper, bring me the paper.” And we sold more papers that night than I think I’ve ever sold anytime I could remember. But to me, that’s the only time I remember an extra coming out in Austin. It could have. We could have had another extra there, but I don’t recall another one. But to me as a child, I think that was one thing that did stand out in my mind as something that was interesting. Samuel Holmes Interview, March 10, 1986 2 Texas 150 Oral History Collection. University Archives, Texas State University Owens: Yeah, where did the people drown? Holmes: At Hornsby Bend. That’s down about Bastrop area, in that area, off down that area there. Owens: Hornsby Bend. I’ll write that down. Holmes: And I don’t know. You can probably check at the American Statesman. I am almost sure they would have a copy. Might be good to ask them if they, I’m sure somebody, something, an event of that magnitude, I am sure they would have. Owens: That was the night of the big flood that the people drowned? Holmes: Yes. Owens: Well, did they not have the dam then? Holmes: They had this little dam up here, I think it was Tom Miller Dam [at that time known as Austin Dam], but it washed away. No, they didn’t have Mansfield Dam at that time. Owens: All they had was Tom Miller [Austin Dam]. Holmes: And that dam washed away. They didn’t have anything to hold the water. So it was devastating. It was a lot of excitement. Owens: Well, how did y’all deliver the papers, but you just walked? Holmes: You walked, well, sure, you just got up, and he took us down to East Avenue there and just whatever neighborhood, they would let two or three of us off in this neighborhood, and two or three of us off in that neighborhood, and people all in the area. Owens: So, they took y’all around in cars and left you off at a certain point? Holmes: He just had one car. And he took a couple or two of us off here on this street, like we was let off on East Avenue there and take two maybe to the downtown area and then take two out in the part, what they called the Blackland area, and south and just all around. So that was, that stood out in my mind pretty good because I’d never seen that much water and haven’t seen that much water. I mean, like in Austin. Owens: Had it rained a lot prior to the flood? Holmes: About two weeks, I think, not, to me, being a child, I didn’t pay attention to how hard, how hard it was raining, how often it was raining, but I know it rained enough to do that.