On Being a Socialist in Parliament: and Christine Buchholz

Revolutionary socialists reject the no- everyone who was involved in those cam- tion of a parliamentary road to socialism paigns might not have been a socialist but nevertheless believe that is useful to most people saw a need when it came stand in parliamentary elections. Here to election time to have some represen- IMR interviews two socialists who suc- tation for our campaigning activity and ceeded in getting elected, which explore most of them felt there was no established how they do their job and use their posi- political party that represented their ob- tion to further the wider struggle: they are jectives and aspirations and it was really with Richard Boyd Barrett, of the People out of that that the People Before Profit Before Profit Alliance in Ireland and Chris- Alliance developed, first in Dun Laoghaire tine Buchholz, supporter of the Marx 21 and then in some other parts of as current within Die Linke (The Left Party) a way to bring together different left wing, in Germany. trade union, environmental and commu- nity campaigners into a movement that Richard Boyd Barrett linked those campaigns together. Then we decided to run in elections. In Dun Laoghaire I was selected as the candidate. I didn’t get elected the first time around but we got a very good result and it was clear that there was an audience.

IMR: Was that for TD?

RBB: I ran for TD and I also ran for the council and got very close both times, but didn’t get elected. The first time I ran for the Da´ıl (for the SWP) was in 2002 and then for People Before Profit in 2007 I Richard Boyd Barrett stood for Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Coun- cil in 2007. .But finally I was elected to the council in 2009 - in fact I topped the poll IMR: How did you become a TD? with a significant margin so that was the first electoral break through for PBP and Richard Boyd Barrett: I was involved we also got a number of councillors elected in campaigning for many years with the elsewhere for PBP in 2009. Then in 2011 I SWP and later with People Before Profit. was elected in the general elections for Dun I was involved in the anti war movement, Laoghaire. At that stage we were part of workers rights, anti privatisation cam- a bigger alliance called the United Left Al- paigns, and environmental campaigns, par- liance which got five TD’s elected in total. ticularly in my own locality Dun Laoghaire That was a big breakthrough for this new where a whole series of campaigns sort of radical left politics that was emerging on over lapped over a period of time. While the political landscape.

41 in Dun Laoghaire. IMR: In part you’ve already an- swered this, but what were the main RBB: Yes that’s right. There was a move political activities that led to your to cut a bus route through a particular election, as in which campaigns do working class area in DL and we led a you think were most important for campaign on that. It wasn’t fully success- building your credibility? ful although we did get some concessions from Bus Eireann to retain some level of RBB: I think that as the chair person of service in the area. That was important in the anti war movement I had gained a lot reaching into new areas. When we look at of experience in building a big national our votes in the ballot boxes we found they campaign. We had had big protests at were significantly higher in areas where we that stage and also I gained a lot of ex- had an active campaign.. So it was very perience in helping pulling together broad much a campaigning organisation that de- coalitions because that was a very broad veloped into something that could chal- coalition involving trade unionists, local lenge on a political front. campaign groups and other sort of pro- gressive NGO’s. So I think the idea of de- IMR: What would you say about the veloping something like PBP flowed from general political situation in early that but I believe the key next step was for 2011 that led to this break through those sort of campaigning activities to gain for the left? roots in particular localities and to begin to link in with social, political and envi- RBB: I think people were absolutely en- ronmental issues, that affected people on raged at the failure of the political estab- a day to day level and in Dun Laoghaire lishment and the crimes of the political there were a number of campaigns that establishment - in facilitating the bonanza were critical in that regard. There was a of greed by developers and bankers - that big campaign against the bin tax - that led to the crash and to the cruel austerity was a national campaign and we had a regime that was imposed. So that was the strong group in Dun Laoghaire. We were biggest context and obviously destroyed also fighting a whole number of battles on the support for Fianna Fail who had dom- housing in the locality because there was a inated Irish politics for the last 70 years. big housing crisis. There was a very signif- It also saw the collapse of the icant and very successful campaign to stop - who virtually ceased to exist. Much of the privatisation of the Dun Laoghaire sea the anger benefited the but front which we spearheaded,.Then there there were quite a few people who didn’t were other things like solidarity with the see Labour as an alternative because they Shell to Sea campaign in Mayo. A lot of remembered it selling out in the past in these campaigns started to overlap and the order to be in government. And also there activists found themselves again and again was a layer of people involved in cam- working together so there was really a logi- paigning who had seen that Labour had cal and organic development from that sort not been part in building campaigns on of activity to when elections came along. the ground, so I think that was really the context. A desire to see an alternative to IMR: I heard you once say that it austerity and one that was actually build- was the bus campaign that was key ing resistance on the ground and not just

42 talking about it. movements of resistance outside. So it can be done but the key is not to get sucked in IMR: What are your main priorities to the bubble. in your work as a TD? IMR: How much do you see yourself RBB: the main priority is to use the par- using the position to make propa- liament as a platform to organise opposi- ganda against the government and tion outside the parliament; to use it as a the system and for socialism? place to coordinate and link together dif- ferent struggles that are happening outside RBB: I think the big argument the gov- the parliament, in the workplaces, commu- ernment use for austerity is that there is nities and various fights against austerity. no alternative. You might not like what’s I think that’s the most important thing. happening but there is no choice is their The big danger of parliament is to get narrative, so I think it is important to be sucked in to the bubble and I always quote able to get up and articulate alternatives. Lenin’s famous phrase ‘Parliament is a It gives a bit of confidence to people out- dungheap. You can stand on it to shout side when they are resisting unjust auster- louder but whatever you do don’t fall into ity and cuts if they can hear an alternative it’. I think that’s absolutely right. So being put forward in the parliament. But I if you can use it as a platform to get in still think we have a big job to do, to really touch with different people, and to be a get across the message that there are alter- voice for people who are fighting back on natives. There are lots of different groups the outside and to facilitate that struggle that are making arguments against aus- then that is useful. But parliament it- terity, trade unions, social justice and left self isn’t amenable to change and it’s very wing groups, but I still think they haven’t clear to me after two and a half years in been popularised to the degree that they there that the only time the government need to be to really give people confidence. are affected by anything we say inside the That’s why the People’s Assembly that we parliament is when we get huge numbers are organising for September 18 will be a of people on the streets outside the par- quite important opportunity to really try liament, because the government or the and create a coherent and comprehensive elites of this country aren’t interested in a alternative, bringing together the different good argument. It’s about what you can groups that have been fighting austerity mobilise to force change. I think we have and put forward those alternatives and re- done that quite successfully in a number of ally popularise those arguments amongst areas, most notably the recent campaign larger layers of people. Obviously parlia- to stop the privatisation of public forestry ment can be useful in that regard. in this country. Where we spearheaded that campaign on the ground but used IMR: What about international is- the parliament as a focus to get it all to- sues? I know you often raise these. gether. There have also been a number of successful protests against cuts to disabil- RBB: Yeah, I think international exam- ity, disadvantaged schools, local fights over ples and inspiration is tremendously im- stopping an oil company putting an oil rig portant. I think it’s important to speak of in Dublin bay where again I think we used them in parliament but maybe even more the parliament well to build and support so to use them as positive examples for

43 people here who are trying to fight back. because there is a lot of pressure. There When you are trying to convey the idea is local constituency work, which as the that resistance, people’s power and work- austerity deepens is intensifying. We have ers’ power can change things, it’s fantastic huge amounts of people in mortgage dif- to be able to talk about the examples of ficulty, housing difficulty, unable to pay the revolution in Egypt, the resistance in their bills, homelessness, so we have an of- Spain, and Greece, the more recent revolts fice and a clinic in Dun Laoghaire which in Turkey and so on. So I think the in- is extremely busy. We have some volun- ternational dimension is very important teers helping me and some resources from because part of the strategy of Europe’s parliament to staff that office. That’s a elites is to try and isolate and demoralise big priority but also the Da´ıl would sit people in different countries and the differ- Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of any ent movements of resistance. But I think given week so those days would be concen- when you set our resistance in the con- trated on parliamentary activity and with text of a wider and growing European and linking up with groups outside the par- world wide resistance against austerity it liament that are trying to campaign and gives people confidence and helps them to put pressure on the government. Then I believe in the possibility of change. also try and make time to travel around the country to help develop PBP; so usu- IMR: And foreign policy? ally Monday nights are free and I travel every Monday night to try and develop RBB: Palestine is obviously an issue that PBP branches. It’s a balancing act and I’ve talked a lot about. It’s very important obviously I get a lot of support from the just because of the horror that’s going on people who work with me in parliament in Palestine Also we need to oppose any and from the wider organisation and it moves to try and use the crisis in Syria to really shows the importance of having an justify greater militarism by the big pow- organisation on the ground because if you ers in the Middle East. We have spoken were just an individual TD you could have again and again against moves to try and far less of an impact than having the SWP, militarise the EU and align it closer to PBP and other campaigns which you are the NATO military alliance. It’s obvious working with outside the parliament. why that’s important, because there’s vast amounts of money that could be used to IMR: You only take the average in- create employment, education, healthcare dustrial wage while donating the rest that are being pumped into war and mil- of your salary to political campaigns. itarism and that’s a terrible waste. I also Why do you think this is important? think we have a moral duty to stand up for international solidarity and oppose oppres- RBB: One of the things that hugely angers sion against groups elsewhere in the world. people at the moment is the gross inequal- ity in our society, particularly in the teeth IMR: In practice how do you actu- a dire recession where a small elite are ally divide your time between the protected from the crisis and even benefit Da´ıland work outside? from it, while ordinary people are being hammered. I think it’s important if you’re RBB: That’s a really difficult balance, on the left and represent ordinary people and we have been learning as we go along, that you are in the same situation as they

44 are. I don’t see how you could claim to rep- about it in parliament - I do my best to resent people who are struggling if you’re give good speeches - but those speeches get insulated from the impact of what’s hap- strength and weight by what’s happening pening to them. I think that’s part, while on the outside. It is when we have mo- it’s not the only reason, of why there’s a bilised people in large numbers that the huge alienation from politics. Increasingly campaigns have been effective and that’s politicians and trade union leaders have when you can see the government fearful a lifestyle and a material existence which about what we are saying. I think that’s really bear no relationship to the people the key thing - that change comes from they claim to represent. They live lives far below and left wingers in parliament are closer to the elite than to ordinary work- there to encourage that self activity of or- ing people. I also think there is an issue dinary people, not to substitute for it. of accountability - you can be more ac- countable to people if you’re in the same IMR: What criticisms do you have of position as them. If I want a pay rise - I the Da´ılas an institution? have to fight for everyone else to get a pay rise so I think it’s a basic principle of left RBB: It’s simply not accountable. Politi- wing and progressive politics. cians will make promises before an elec- tion and then break them directly after IMR: How does the way you do your an election and ordinary people have to job differ from the way other inde- wait five years to hold them to account pendent TD’s operate? for that and that’s just not good enough. Promises are made these days it seems RBB: I think there is a substantial differ- just to take people in and to get political ence and the main difference is a focus on parties into power but with no intention activities outside the parliament. There of following through on those promises. are quite a number of independent and The basic problem is that the Da´ılis not left TD’s in the Da´ılthat on many issues accountable to people on a day to day I would find myself working with and in basis and we need a democracy which is agreement with. But they generally do not much more direct and participatory, re- put the same emphasis on activity outside, ally I think ultimately a democracy where on building protests or on people power. we don’t have professional politicians so They tend to more articulate a different much as you people who are organically policy and be of the view that if you get representing the working class and ordi- enough people to vote for those policies nary people - where people could be ac- you could change things through parlia- countable on a weekly, even daily basis for ment. I don’t believe that. I think it is what they do and can be replaced if they people’s power and workers power that fail to implement the policies that they changes things. I think consciously or un- claim to stand for. consciously you are selling people an illu- sion if you say to them ‘vote for me and I’ll IMR: Out there, especially in work- change it for you’. So I always emphasise ing class areas, there is a great cyni- in everything I’m doing the power of people cism and disillusionment with politi- to bring about change. In the campaigns cians and people believe there is a where we have been successful it hasn’t high level of corruption. Do you been because I have made good speeches think that’s true? What’s your ex-

45 perience of this? month basis about laws that affect them. They should have the opportunity to re- RBB: There was very overt corruption call their representatives if they don’t do during the Celtic Tiger. Neoliberalism in what they said. I think we need economic this country let developers and bankers democracy. We have to some democratic rip and produced corruption as an almost control, in fact we need democratic con- inevitable bi-product. Of course we saw trol over the wealth and the resources in very explicit examples of that with min- our country and that means democracy in isters taking large donations and bribes. industry as well as just geographically by Because of the outrage and anger I don’t constituency. I think people like the pen- know now the extent of such direct bribery sioners and the unemployed, all these dif- so I don’t know the answer to that but ferent sectors need to have their own repre- what I do think is that there is a more gen- sentation. So I think we are really talking eral corruption of the political process, be- about a revolution here in the way democ- cause the political establishment still allow racy is done. I think we need a revolu- themselves to be hostage to big business tion to bring that about. We need to see interest. So everything is about deference the sort of popular uprising as we are see- to the markets, deference to the multina- ing in Egypt, Greece, and Spain and in- tionals, deference to the big corporations. deed for those things to go further, to bring The idea that you could tax these people, about a root and branch change in the way that you could tax the wealthy is almost democracy is done because it is absolutely incomprehensible to the political estab- clear that the current system of democracy lishment. I think that’s corrupting. The is dysfunctional, and needs to be replaced extent to where there are direct bribes I with something that truly represents the don’t know, although I do think that what aspirations and interests of ordinary peo- happen probably more is that politicians ple. that generally champion and protect the interest of the corporations and big busi- ness can fairly confidently expect to end up Christine Buchholz on the boards of directors of some of these companies or be rewarded with senior po- sitions in the European Union bureaucracy or on quangos. So I think there’s that sort of corruption which is still widespread and endemic within the system.

IMR: What is your vision of real democracy?

RBB: I think we need really popular, di- Christine Buchholz rect, participatory democracy where peo- ple have an ongoing say in the decisions that are made that affect their lives. They IMR: How did you become MP? shouldn’t just have to wait five years to vote in a different government, they should Christine Buchholz: I was elected in have a say on a week to week and month to the general election of September 2009.

46 DIE LINKE (The Left Party) had a mas- tice (WASG) and the post-communist sive upturn at this time. Already in Linkspartei.PDS based in East Germany. 2005, the list of the post-communist party The WASG was initiated in 2004 by a Linkspartei.PDS won 54 seats in parlia- group of left wing trade unionists that had ment including 12 MPs of Electoral Alter- been expelled from the SPD for their crit- native Labour and Social Justice (WASG), icism of the neoliberal politics of the red- a left break away from social democracy. green government under Gerhard Schr¨oder Until 2009, there was no big wave of class and the cuts package ‘Agenda 2010’. It struggle, but the mood for change was represented a shift to the left in the Ger- still there. Then - three weeks before man labour movement and unified a layer the election - the worst war-crime of the of left wing trade unionists and activists German army after WWII happened: the from social movements and smaller left bombing of 140 civilians close to Kundus, wing organisations. in Afghanistan. DIE LINKE increased The PDS was the successor of the Stal- its vote from 8,7 to 11,9 percent because inist SED, the ruling party of the GDR. It it was the only party in the Bundestag had gone through a process of integrating that was opposed to sending troops to activists of radical left traditions in west- Afghanistan right from the start. I became ern Germany and - at the same time - ap- one of 76 Left MPs in the new Bundestag. proached government in several states in eastern Germany. The birth of the new left IMR: What were the main political was backed by massive movements against activities and experiences that led to Agenda 2010, the attacks against the un- your election? employed with the labour market reform Hartz IV and also by the resistance against CB:I was an activist in different move- wars, starting from 1999 against the bomb- ments: the anti-war movement, the anti- ing of Yugoslavia to the movements against capitalist mobilizations like Genoa, Heili- the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. gendamm, the European Social Forums We have both traditions in DIE and movements against racism and fas- LINKE: a tradition of politics from above cism. And I was part of the regroupment centred on parliamentarism and a bureau- of the German left in the WASG and fi- cratic approach, but also an activist, class- nally DIE LINKE where I fought - and still orientated tradition. Even if the ‘social- fight - for an orientation on class struggle ism from above’ approach is stronger in the and activity around movements at grass- east, sometimes west German groups that roots level.The reputation I got from these are deeply involved in communal politics activities led to my election on the list of are very much dominated by parliamentary DIE LINKE in the state of Hesse. logic as well. In the city state of Berlin, DIE LINKE was part of government till IMR: You are an MP for DIE 2011 - a complete disaster. But now, the LINKE. Could you tell us something same party was successful in the mobiliza- about this party, its history, nature tion around a referendum that could pave policies etc.? the way for the re-communalization of the energy supply. The performance of the CB: DIE LINKE was founded 2007 out party has depended on the level of branch of the - mainly west German - Elec- based activities. toral Alternative Labour and Social Jus- To sum it up. DIE LINKE had been a

47 massive step forward in German left wing voted - like the other DIE LINKE MPs- in politics, it has been an important factor in parliament against the fiscal treaty and the mobilizations against the Nazis in Dresden bailout for the European banks. But the and in the anti-troika-Blockupy Protests in main effort was to mobilize actively against Frankfurt, but it lacks a coherent strategy the politics of the troika, Merkel and the on how to intervene in class struggle and ECB for a nation wide protest in Frank- become a motor inside the unions to raise furt. When the police banned the protest the level of resistance in the work places. from the city in 2012 I made a speech in There is massive discontent in the German the Bundestag denouncing it. When the working class, but a low level of resistance. police attacked a part of the ‘Blockupy’ There are examples where workers do re- demo in 2013, I and other MPs of DIE sist but there is no generalized fight back. LINKE used the parliament to confront the government over the incident. With IMR: What do you see as your main other parliamentarians I used my position priorities as an MP? to participate in sit-ins to block the Nazis in Dresden. For some MPs it meant their CB:My main priority is to support class parliamentary immunity was lifted. The struggle and movements in Germany and point is to serve the extra-parliamentary strengthen the left wing of DIE LINKE. activities through your position as an MP But this is not easy. The logic of parlia- - not the other way round. mentarism is swallowing much of the en- ergy of all MPs, including the left-wingers IMR: How does the way you do your in the party. Of course you have to do job differ from the way other DIE your job properly. I think it is important LINKE MPs operate? to prioritize. To give an example: when I was on the investigation committee for the CB: It is the political aim that shapes Kundus Bombing I organized a journey your strategy, and your strategy influences together with a comrade to Afghanistan your daily decisions. Of course, the day- to meet with the victims of the bomb- to-day work of a comrade who wants to ing. When we had an internal debate if change politics mainly through parliamen- we should vote against a UN peacekeeping tary channels will differ from the approach Mission in Sudan or if we should abstain, of someone with a revolutionary strategy. I travelled to Sudan to strengthen the ar- But it is not as easy as it sounds. I do not gument of those who were opposing any run around with a megaphone all the time military intervention. But I never partici- while the other MPs just sit in the parlia- pated in official parliamentary delegations mentary committees. I think, first of all as or similar journeys that are disconnected a revolutionary you have take positions on to the debates and activities of the move- a whole range of questions and avoid being ments and the left. seduced into a type of ‘expert mongering’. Secondly, while always searching for unity IMR: How do you combine parlia- in action you have to be prepared to take mentary and extra parliamentary ac- minority positions inside the party if nec- tivity? essary. For example, I participated very much in discussions around the right for CB:This is a question of political coher- Jews and Muslims to practice religious cir- ence, combining both types of activities. I cumcision when there was a harsh debate

48 in German public life to abolish it. Then eign to those of the majority. This leads there have to be conscious decisions on pri- to a situation where parties are trying to orities. As a revolutionary, I give priority catch votes every four years promising all to all kind of mobilizations - not only con- kind of things and then just do what- cerning anti-war politics which I do cover ever they think is in the ‘national inter- as DIE LINKE’s spokes person on peace est’, i.e. the interest of capital. So while a matters - but also, for example, around majority of the population is consistently the anti-capitalist protests. Most impor- against participating in the Afghan war, tantly, as a revolutionary I can’t just work this has never been reflected inside parlia- on my own. I am connected to many in ment. The government parties just keep the party and the movement and I am part on voting year after year to continue with of a network of other revolutionaries inside this bloody mess with the support of the DIE LINKE that keeps you grounded and so called opposition of the SPD and the serves as a frame of collective discussion. Greens. Indeed, it was the latter that If you don’t discuss the political situation started it all while being in government and the decisions to be taken collectively twelve years ago. you’ll end up thinking of yourself as being But that doesn’t mean you should ab- hard left while in reality that doesn’t mean stain from elections or parliament. Since too much at all. the majority of people believe in parlia- mentary elections you have to relate to IMR: What criticism do you have of them. As an MP you have much more the Bundestag as an institution? visibility and a much louder voice than otherwise. It would be foolish to abstain CB: The Bundestag is part of the state and let these opportunities pass. This is machine that is wholly dominated by the all the more important when you are part capitalist class. Many people think, as an of a new left party that effectively tries MP you have some kind of power. This to change the balances of forces on the is absolutely not the case. So for exam- ground. ple, in theory the Bundestag monitors the activities of the secret services. But the IMR: What is your vision of real latest scandal around the collusion of the democracy? German BND and the American NSA just revealed the opposite. Neither I nor any CB: Real democracy would mean that the other MP, including MPs of the govern- working class would be in control of so- ment parties, can really do anything about ciety. That sort of democracy would be it. Indeed, as an MP of the Left Party it is based around the place where we work you that is being monitored by the secret since it is in the workplace that society’s service not the other way round. wealth is produced and peoples’ needs are This example just illustrates the basic met. This requires a break with the logic problem: while in theory they talk about of capitalism: as long as production serves checks and balances, about the separation profit making and not the needs of the pro- of powers, it is the executive that domi- ducers it is impossible to have real democ- nates the legislature. And the executive, racy. Secondly, real democracy would be i.e. the army, the police, the state bureau- about controlling your own life. It would cracy, the governmental machine etc., is require the active participation of individ- dominated by class interests that are for- uals since freedom can’t be handed down.

49 So this starts at the workplace but is not are forced to earn a living somehow and are restricted to it. Why can’t just the tenants under constant stress. Today you are be- of a tower bloc come together and think ing constantly ruled. In a free society you about collective improvements of where would rule yourself together with others. they live? This would presume a common In a real democracy there will be collec- interest in the house that you are in, and tive decision making in every tower bloc, of course enough time just to do it. Today, every city district, every school and every we are estranged from each other, we have hospital and of course on a national and to do what a boss or a land lord says, we international level.

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