Vol. 773 Tuesday, No. 1 17 July 2012 DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES DÁIL ÉIREANN TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised) Dé Máirt, 17 Iúil 2012. Ceisteanna — Questions Minister for Social Protection Priority Questions …………………………… 1 Other Questions …………………………… 13 Topical Issue Matters ……………………………… 19 Leaders’ Questions ……………………………… 20 Ceisteanna — Questions (resumed) An Taoiseach ……………………………… 27 Order of Business ……………………………… 47 Gaeltacht Bill 2012: Second Stage (resumed)………………………54 Topical Issue Matters ……………………………… 56 Topical Issue Debate Departmental Bodies …………………………… 57 Job Creation ……………………………… 60 Suicide Incidence ……………………………… 63 Services for People with Disabilities ……………………… 65 Residential Institutions Statutory Fund Bill 2012: Order for Report Stage …………………………… 68 Report Stage ……………………………… 68 Consumer Credit (Amendment) Bill 2012: Second Stage [Private Members] ………… 80 Messages from Seanad ……………………………… 97 Residential Institutions Statutory Fund Bill 2012: Report Stage (resumed) and Final Stage … … 97 Questions: Written Answers …………………………… 111 DÁIL ÉIREANN DÍOSPÓIREACHTAÍ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES TUAIRISC OIFIGIÚIL OFFICIAL REPORT Imleabhar 773 Volume 773 Dé Máirt, 17 Iúil 2012. Tuesday, 17 July 2012. ———— Chuaigh an Leas-Cheann Comhairle i gceannas ar 2.00 p.m. ———— Paidir. Prayer. ———— Ceisteanna — Questions Priority Questions An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: As Deputy Cowen is not present and Deputy Ó Snodaigh is arriving in the Chamber I ask the Minister to respond to Question No. 16 in the name of Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh, after which we will return to Question No. 15. Rent Supplement Scheme 16. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Minister for Social Protection the number of additional persons to whom the new lower rent supplement ceiling was applied in the past month; the number who have been forced to move as a consequence of the new ceiling to date in 2012; her views on whether it may be too late for parents who are forced to leave their locality to enrol their children in new schools; and if she will seek to make savings on rent supplement by negotiating directly with landlord representatives instead of placing exclusive responsibility for achieving her Departments savings on individual vulnerable tenants. [35043/12] Minister for Social Protection (Deputy Joan Burton): The Government has provided €436 million for rent supplement in 2012. Total expenditure on the scheme over the past five years from 2007 to 2011 was €2.36 billion. At present, approximately 92,000 persons are in receipt of 1 Priority 17 July 2012. Questions [Deputy Joan Burton.] rent supplement, of whom approximately 37,000 are single persons. The remaining 55,000 clients are couples, couples with children and single-parent households. New maximum rent payments reduced from 1 January 2012 based on a review of the most up-to-date market data available. The emphasis of the rent review was to ensure value for money for tenants and taxpayers while ensuring people on rent supplement are not priced out of the market for private rented accommodation. The revised limits are applicable to new rent supplement tenancies from January 2012 and existing tenancies on review. Approximately 25,000 rent supplement claims have been awarded in 2012, of which 3,700 were awarded within the last month, indicating that accommodation can be secured within the new limits. When rents are in excess of the limit, clients are being asked to contact the landlord and renegotiate the rent. Where landlords do not agree to reduce the rent within the limits, staff will discuss the options open to the tenant, including seeking alternative accommodation. Statis- tics on the numbers who have secured alternative accommodation are not available. Officials administering the scheme advise that customers are securing alternative accommodation within their locality. Any customers who have specific issues with regard to relocating should discuss these issues with departmental officials, who continue to provide support and advice to customers in addressing their accommodation and other needs. There will be no incidence of homelessness due to these changes. Additional information not given on floor of the House. Rent supplement is specifically for the benefit of the tenants to assist them with their accom- modation needs. The Department does not intend negotiating directly with landlords to reduce rents on behalf of a tenant. I have recently introduced powers of inquiry for appropriate staff to request formally and oblige landlords to provide information in respect of their rent supplement tenants, principally to verify the agreed rent and existence of the tenancy. This measure will improve both the governance and oversight arrangements in place and complement existing compliance arrange- ments which the Department has in place with the Office of the Revenue Commissioners. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: The last sentence spoken by the Minister is completely and utterly wrong as there will be homelessness due to this measure. Those people who cannot find accommodation in the areas affected, where the rent supplement rates have been substantially reduced, are being displaced from areas in which they and their families have laid down their roots. They will be homeless. While they may not be captured by the homeless agency, they will be homeless by virtue of the Minister’s steps. The Minister is a bulk purchaser of a service. Does she not agree that the Department, through local authorities, already negotiates directly with landlords? Why does she refuse point blank in this instance to negotiate the reductions in rent with the landlords rather than through tenants who already are vulnerable? The Department and not the tenant negotiates in the case of the rental accommodation scheme. Deputy Joan Burton: The Deputy and I have discussed this issue previously. Rent sup- plement is intended as a short-term renting scheme for people who have lost their jobs and who expect to find new employment within a short period. Over the past decade, the numbers relying on this scheme have grown enormously. The purpose of the scheme is to provide a rent supplement to persons who require that supplement because they are not in employment. I have said previously that it is our intention to reform the scheme in a way that will provide for its transfer to the local authorities. I agree with the Deputy in his reference to local authorities in regard to the rental accommodation scheme. They have housing departments which are 2 Priority 17 July 2012. Questions experts on the provision and acquisition of housing. The community welfare service staff in my Department are not experts on housing, rather they are experts in giving monetary assistance on a monetary basis to persons in need of assistance and they do this with great consideration and care. As I indicated to the Deputy, more than 25,000 rent supplement claims have been awarded to date in 2012. One must bear in mind that the total number we anticipate this year is 92,000. To date, we have had more than 25,000 people negotiating claims, of which 3,700 relate to this month. That indicates that people are negotiating. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: We know people are negotiating and they are doing so from a position in which they are in severe distress. They have no choice because the Minister will not meet her responsibility in that regard. She mentioned the rental accommodation scheme. Why are the numbers under that scheme reducing? According to the Revised Estimates for public services in 2012, the numbers under the scheme have shrunk from 6,800 to 6,300 and the Minister has outlined her big solution. We have argued about the issue previously and the Minister referred to the local authorities. Why does she not give them some of the 230,000 vacant housing units across the State? There are only 100,000 families on local authority hous- ing lists. They are the ones in need of accommodation and many of them are in receipt of rent supplement. I have never supported the notion of the State subsidising private landlords. I have always argued that it should provide social housing. Why is the Minister not delivering the NAMA houses and the empty units around the country to the local authorities, rather than continuing to subsidise private landlords? Deputy Joan Burton: The issue concerning the NAMA houses, an important potential resource, is under negotiation between my colleague, the Minister for the Environment, Com- munity and Local Government, and NAMA. The Department of Social Protection commands approximately 40% of the private rental market. There has been a fall at historic levels in the value of housing and property assets and the Deputy is seriously suggesting those who rent privately — they account for 60% of the private rental market — should have their rent driven up by the Department oin order to benefit private landlords. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: Nobody is suggesting that. Deputy Jonathan O’Brien: That is just—— An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. Deputy Joan Burton: The private landlords need to give value for money on their tenancies. I have advised Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh that in the past five years the country has spent €2.36 billion on rent supplement. That is a great deal of money in anybody’s language. I share any concern the Deputy may have about any individual in distress, but the officials in the Department, community welfare officers, have been extremely careful to be diligent towards those who are renting and who may have special requirements. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: That is just not true. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Please allow the Minister to speak. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: It is the exact opposite. Deputy Jonathan O’Brien: The Minister is living in a bubble. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Order, please. 3 Priority 17 July 2012. Questions Deputy Joan Burton: We are in an exceptionally difficult financial position and Sinn Féin is suggesting the Department should push up private rents.