John Holdren Looks Back

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John Holdren is the longest-serving presidential science adviser in US history.

POLITICS John Holdren looks back Obama’s top scientist talks to Nature about shrinking federal budgets, Donald Trump, and his biggest regret after nearly eight years in the White House.

BY JEFF TOLLEFSON AND SARA REARDON longest-serving US science adviser, recently kids participating in science fairs, more kids sat down with Nature for a wide-ranging chat. going to ‘makerspaces’. We have substantially ohn Holdren is no stranger to the spotlight. The interview has been edited for length and increased the number of engineers graduating Over his long career in science, Holdren clarity. from college in this country. I say ‘we’, but obvi- J— a physicist by training — has worked ously, that is a large cooperative operation that on controversial high-profile issues such as Opinion polls continue to show a divide includes colleges and universities. climate change and nuclear non-proliferation. between what the American public thinks I’m not sure which polls you are referring to, But for nearly eight years, he has enjoyed an about science and what scientists think. Has but my impression is that the public is more even higher profile, as US President Barack Obama done enough to change the way that interested in and enthusiastic about science, Obama’s science adviser, and director of the science is perceived? technology and innovation than it was at the White House Office of Science and Technol- The president has done an incredible job in beginning of this administration. ogy Policy (OSTP). making science cool for young people. This is With Obama due to leave the White already evident in all kinds of numbers: you see Leaders at the National Institutes of Health House in January 2017, Holdren, now the more kids enrolling in science courses, more (NIH) and other government agencies have

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discussed the widespread of these technologies are, and perception that we are training how we should think as a global too many PhDs. Do you worry science community about regu- about that? lating them. If every PhD we train believes that her or his only acceptable Shortly after he took office, career trajectory is a tenured pro- Obama said that this was going fessorship in a college or univer- to be the most transparent sity, then it’s true: we are training administration ever. But SMIALOWSKI/AFP/GETTY BRENDAN more PhDs than there are slots journalists have found some of that kind. But the PhD is, in agencies to be fairly opaque. fact, a very versatile degree. Far In the first months of the more than just demonstrating administration, the president that you know more than prac- issued executive orders on trans- tically anybody else about one parency, on scientific integrity, narrow topic, it demonstrates on openness in government. I that you have the fortitude, the was put in charge of a number focus, the commitment and the of the implementation [efforts]. intellectual capacity to tackle a That has been a focus of OSTP very tough problem. throughout this administration. PhDs are finding construc- Holdren and Obama have pushed for bigger science budgets — with mixed results. We’ve gotten virtually all of the tive and rewarding employment departments and agencies to all across the economy, and, overall, our view to see more public support for raising public produce for public review and comment, and is that there are still more opportunities for spending on research and development. then to finalize, policies on openness and on highly trained people in science, technology scientific integrity. I think we’ve made great and innovation than there are people being Science is global today. How do you think progress in terms of open data, in terms of the trained. that complicates matters? Can the regulators publication in open venues of federally funded keep up? research. But I would not argue that that job Do you worry about future science funding? I’m going to China this week for a strategic is finished. The president has consistently recommended and economic dialogue and for a US–China There is always a tendency in government, more money for science and technology than dialogue on innovation policy. I’ll be talking some of it quite legitimate, not to expose inter- Congress has been willing to pass. with my Chinese counterpart, Wan Gang, nal deliberations prematurely. You know, it’s The success ratio of proposals to the NIH is the minister of science and technology, about quite challenging to have a discussion between something like 17% — that is, we are funding some of these very problems and what we are the president’s senior advisers with reporters one-sixth of the proposals that the NIH gets. doing about them. from Nature, Science and The New York Times And those proposals are already self-selected. We have a lot of cooperation with China sitting around in the room, because if you do Investigators don’t bother writing a proposal on biomedical issues. We talk to them all of that, nobody will float a trial balloon for fear to the NIH unless they think they have got a the time about gain-of-function research that the trial balloon will get into the news as really good idea, a capable team and a plausible and about gene-editing issues. And in fact, a done deal. strategy. If you ask Francis Collins, the NIH when the current round of interest in gene director, what fraction of the proposals they get editing emerged with the rise of the CRISPR You’ve spent almost eight years inside what that are worthy of funding, he’ll tell you 50%. technology, the [US] National Academies of is arguably the most powerful institution That means we are funding about a third of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine gathered on Earth. Do you come away more or less the potentially productive, influential, path- leading scientists from optimistic about humanity’s ability to deal breaking research that is proposed to the NIH. all over the world in a with its problems? But the NIH has a budget of over US$30 billion format very much like I come away more optimistic, and that’s in

per year. It’s not very easy in these budget times Asilomar [a landmark large measure due to the extraordinary leader- SOUZA PETE to increase a $30-billion budget by a large fac- conference in 1975 that ship that President Obama has provided. I have tor, like 50% — never mind 100% or more, set rules for research on felt for many decades that science, technology as director Collins would say is warranted in NATURE.COM recombinant DNA], but and innovation are crucial if human society is terms of the quality of the research. The same is For an extended strongly international. to get its arms around the biggest challenges true at the National Science Foundation — far version of this The top Chinese people we face. And I’ve had the pleasure of working more worthy proposals than they are able to interview, see: came to talk through for a president for nearly eight years now who fund. This is a consistent problem. I would like go.nature.com/29mxyuj what the implications shares that view. ■