Discovering What We Don't Know: An Interview with of

Sarah Kozinn

TDR: The Drama Review, Volume 54, Number 4, Winter 2010 (T 208), pp. 188-205 (Article)

Published by The MIT Press

For additional information about this article http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/tdr/summary/v054/54.4.kozinn.html

Access Provided by at 11/27/10 12:20PM GMT Discovering What We Don’t Know An Interview with Steve Cosson of the Civilians Sarah Kozinn

As the Deepwater Horizon oil rig that exploded on 28 April 2010 continued to spew upwards of 25,000 barrels of oil a day into the Gulf Coast waters, devastating its fragile ecosystem, the Civilians, a New York–based theatre company, was in preparations for their 12 May reading of The Great Immensity at ’s New Works Now! festival. The Great Immensity, both the name of a Chinese Panamax ship the authors saw while conducting investigations for the play in the Panama Canal and a metaphor for the overwhelming size of current global environ- mental problems, is a departure from the work the company is best known for: non-narrative, ensemble-devised theatre that uses music and verbatim texts culled from interviews conducted by cast members.

Figure 1. You Better Sit Down. From left: Robbie Collier Sublett, Jennifer R. Morris, Matthew Maher, and Caitlin Miller. Galapagos Art Space in , NY, 13 November 2009. (Photo by Aaron Wesner)

Sarah Kozinn is a doctoral candidate in the Department of Performance Studies at Tisch School of the Arts/NYU, where she also earned her MA. She was a Performance Studies Fellow at Wesleyan University and received the 2005 NYU Performance Studies Award and the 2009 Paula Goddard Award. She currently teaches in NYU’s Undergraduate Department of Drama and teaches acting technique at the New York Film Academy. She has studied theatre, puppetry, and street performance around the world, has produced several plays and films, and performs improvisational comedy in .

TDR: The Drama Review 54:4 (T208) Winter 2010. ©2010 188 New York University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology Steve Cosson and the Civilians 189 spill. pany’s ­pany’s (2003, with Darko (2008, with Gary Griffin Saved the themes that emerge eerily TheBlue Demon (see for example Opera Threepenny The composed the music. The play weaves composed the music. 1 on its way to Phyllis arctic has Canada. during a yearlong collaboration with faculty, during a yearlong collaboration with faculty, The Great Immensity (2007, with Michael Greif at Northwestern’s American Music Theatre American Music (2007, at with Northwestern’s Michael Greif The Great Immensity The Great Immensity In the In Bubble (2010, with Alex Timbers), Timbers), (2010, with Jackson Alex Bloody Bloody Andrew (2006, with Olcott at Nick the Kennedy Center), and (2007, a Georges production New with at the EastStreet Theater), 13th God’s Ear God’s and directed the play and Michael Friedman wrote Cosson incorporated the Civilians in as 2001 a and, nonprofit company financing its pro- at Playwrights Horizons), at Playwrights Horizons), Friedman is a Friedman composer and lyricist who is Associate a Artist Founding of the Civilians. has He been - work ing with the company since it started in 2001. In addition to his work with the has Civilians, writ- Friedman ten music and lyrics for The company developed While watching the 12 I May couldn’t reading, help but draw parallels between the content Of course Cosson could not have predicted that the reading would coincide with the oil spill. The fallout from In these one environmental scene troubles directly affects each character. In a another scientist scene, pleas for people to pay attention to more than just dying polar Project), Project), New Kid TheBrand Tresnjak at Theatre), tothe nameHuntington a few. Tresnjak 1. ductions, it and is public private ductions, dependent funding, donations. on grants, artists’ residencies, researchers, and students researchers, from the Princeton Environmental Institute (PEI) and the Princeton Atelier at the the University’s Steve Civilians’ Lewis Cosson, artistic Center Arts. direc- for the tor,

echo the sentiments we had been hearing on the news in response to the disastrous BP oil together interviews with scientists, environmentalists, and together everyday interviews environmentalists, people with on scientists, the topic of cli- The mate change with a fictional story about two identical Phyllis twinand sisters, Polly. plot follows Phyllis’s hunt to find her sister who disappeared during a research trip to Barro learn that Polly became so overwhelmed We by the environmental depreda- Colorado Island. tion that she stowed away aboard methodology in their Rather research-driven than shows. force the a company theme, trusts that play “The investigations. topical their from emerge naturally will commonalities and themes In says Cosson. exists out there in the world,” Albright 2000:121). of the play and the news articles I had read As before the arriving play at described the theatre. the grim state of affairs in I arctic became Canada, lost in images of dying oil-drenched animals, and polluted reefs, beaches I had seen in the news earlier that day. com the defined has coincidence the of art the ways many in and a coincidence, was It no choice but to follow her sister in order to bring her home. we listen to a formerly enthusiastic teenage member of an international youth committee that travels around the world to witness ecological disasters first-hand solemnly resign from the actress standsIn her andher post. facesfinal the vlog audience (video as blog) she entry, recounts in great detail how human neglect is causing the death and extinction of animals and Unable to ecosystems. bear witness to any she more says disasters, good-bye to her online fol- The mournful timbre of her lowers. final address demonstrates the spirit-crushing aftermath of “great facing immensity.” the bears and to turn their focus onto the totality of the disaster caused by In global this warming. we see scene, how Friedman’s musical numbers strategically borrow from diverse musical styles, creating a conversation between the severity of the show’s themes and Friedman the and music. Cosson use the music and after For lyrics her example, to comment on the events of the play. address the scientist sings a torch song to megafauna while a photo of a polar bear is projected and then left This to musically linger romantic in lament the to background. the death of polar bears is discordant with the brutality of the turns actual in the disaster effect, disaster and, into a It beautiful is song. a eulogy and to as megafauna, the song lures the audience into its melodic the text phrases, tells us that by enjoying the song we are celebrating the beauty of extinction. and This Bertolt incongruity Brecht’s of theatrical music objectives and text Weill echoes Kurt (Pimp’s in Ballad) such “Zuhälterballade” from songs as 190 Sarah Kozinn other character’s texts, and how different characters will work together onstage.together work will characters different texts,how character’s and other show,the of with part together be cut should will characters texts what their determine how ers cowrit- his collaborators.and his Cosson and help Cosson performances for These process ing playwrit- the of part also interviewees,are their they of understanding their with experiment to actors the for them.only of not performances are their performances through These are ters a techniques.as charac- acting “reversal”this their traditional describes who of learn Actors story.and text of analysis an through character a Cosson developing of method usual the to opposed as person that to response instinctual and initial their on based are presentations their interview,the after immediately interviewees their perform to required are actors the Because character.understand to used analysis textual and script traditional more circumvent to nity opportu- the actor the gives phase performance in-rehearsal the to phase research the from process.quickly rehearsal jumping the of of progression part The as memory from interviews idea.or topic general a about people of range a interviewing while rules these employ listener.”being good calls “a otherwise he Civilians the development of stage first the During your“scripts.” empathetic,” practice “neutral to Learn rule: fifth a adds Cosson which Then their past talk to people get 4) and them; to interesting most is what about talk to them get to try 3) about; talk to want they what about talk people Waters:let 2) statements; value avoid 1) device.recording a of somatic,obstacle the psychological,without level personal,instinctual and a on person the know to get to question, rather particular but a to answer an find to not was concentration,absolute presence,demanded receptivity. and process interview the of aim The memory,from interviews their perform would they that afterward method possible a as soon devices.recording Instead,any use as not did interviewers the method: interviewing unique a California,Diego.of San University had the Stock at Joint studies The graduate his in Cosson taught who 1974) Hare,in Stafford-Clark,David David Max by in and founded Aukin .company theatre (a Company Les Stock Joint Watersthe of member former a is with work Cosson’s by inspired were that methods the follow shows successful most their production,of of several type this to limited not are they shows,though ­theatre–style and the TreyLyford, Kirk,Miller,Christina Caitlin Colleen and Werthmann with work to continue Friedman,whom,Michael like , Kauffman,Morris,Anne Baldet,Jenny Damian with by working company enjoyed “collecting”the site),he began artists Cosson web- the dancers,on listed composers,are whom choreographers,of (64 writers,directors and actors,are who artists associate of group changing a of ects.composed is company the Though proj- commissioned other several Yardsand Brooklyn; of face the changing is development the how Atlantic at looks that Childs Kirsten composer acclaimed Lynnand winner Nottage commissioned the 2010; June 4 on City New in YorkPub Joe’s at cabaret a as performed was that industry porn the about musical stories; divorce own their contribute can audiences where civilians/) (http://culture.wnyc.org/articles/­ the website through WNYC online broadcast clips video short of series a into made been also has Brooklyn,that in Galapagos NY) Space at Art 2009 November 13 on performed (first parents divorced their with interviews artists’ the from made styles.and on: ics working are They ambitiously.top- in varying projects Currently,of range diverse a with full hands their have they gum,” of pack a and only expanded dollars with has “six show company first the their making (Washington,few.DC),a the name (Louisville,and to Louisville Actors KY) of Theatre Since (Aspen,Jolla,Festival (La CO),Comedy CA),Playhouse US Jolla Studio HBO’s La Theatre the Vineyard (New Theatre YorkCity),Center Group,at Theatre A.R.T.(Cambridge, MA), Public and the Theater at country: the over all theatres at produced been has work group’s The Though the Civilians’ interviewers now use recording devices, the actors still perform their perform still devices,actors recording the use now interviewers Civilians’ the Though interview,from to learned how he actors rules teaching four When the uses often Cosson investigative,their for known best are above,Civilians mentioned the As company. YouDown: Sit Better TalesFromParents’ My Divorce , play a Nottage: Childs Musical,Nottage:Childs a musical by Pulitzer Prize– Pulitzer by musical a Let Me Let Ascertain You a , ­documentary — several of several

Steve Cosson and the Civilians 191 only a few days Canard Canard by Anne Kauffman, Matthew Canard, Canard, Goose? was the Canard, Canard, ) in a post-9/11 climate. They ) tied in these a themes post-9/11 climate. Canard ) by Porn Bess , Musical Wohl. then Let Me Ascertain You by Steven Cosson. Directed by Steven Cosson. Brooklyn (formerly York City. York Fly Away Home had trained geese Away to follow an Fly ultra-light airplane after and then, Directed by Steven Cosson. Music and lyrics by Michael Friedman. Michael Friedman. HERE Arts Center, New York City. New Michael York Friedman. HERE Arts Center, City. Friedman. The Belt, New York New City. New York Michael Friedman. 59E59 Theater, Music and lyrics by Michael Friedman. Actors Theatre of Louisville Humana Festival of New American Plays, Louisville, KY. Brooklyn, NY. Lyceum, Maher, Caitlin Miller, Jennifer R. Morris, Janice Caitlin Paran, Miller, and Robbie Collier Maher, Sublett. Directed by Anne Kauffman. Galapagos Art Space, Brooklyn, NY. by Michael Friedman. The Great Immensity. and Written directed by Steven Cosson. Nottage: Childs Musical. and Written directed by Steven Cosson. Music and lyrics Paris . Commune Created by Steven Cosson and Michael Friedman. Pretty Filthy staged in HERE’s intimate helped theatre the space, Civilians define a form and Canard, Canard, Goose? and Written directed by Steven Cosson. Music and lyrics by Gone Missing. and Written directed by Steven Cosson. Music and lyrics by Michael The Ladies. Directed by Anne Kauffman. by Dixon Written Anne Place, Washburn. (I Am) Nobody’s Lunch. and Written Directed by Steven Cosson. Music and lyrics by This Beautiful City by Steven Cosson and Jim Lewis. Directed by Steven Cosson. Brooklyn @ Eye Level From My Parents’ Divorce Better Sit Down: Tales You Produced in 2002 at HERE Arts Center in New York City, City, Produced in 2002 Arts at Center York HERE in New As they describe on the their company website, was surprised that the interviews with res- Canard, In process Civilian’s first company show. This production was also how they learned toCivilian’s trustfirst their company instincts show. The company in went their into investigative rehearsals process. for Anne but Kauffman when told the company that At they that had point, no show, after 9/11. while vacationing with her husband Adirondacks in she the had heard a story that the 1996 Disney movie abandoned the them Adirondacks the production, in to company the die, decided that an inves- tigation into the death of these geese had to be the jumping-off point for their first company Cosson says Furthermore, that in production. the wake of 9/11 the company members needed “get City some to distance from being in the middle of the to York smell leave and New the so an investigative process Adirondacks conducted was in enticing. the smoke and the craziness,” “misplaced empathy,” idents Adirondacks in revealed the common “disorientation,” themes of (The “coming Civilians, home” and poetically together with an article Cosson found that was written by the Bill Canadian pilot, who taught Lishman, the geese from the film to imprint Unable on to planes. relocate the arti- Cosson told cle, me that he remembered it describing a scene in the movie when the pilot leads Trade an Center image buildings, that profoundly World a flock of geese around the tops of the and lyrically linked together the themes of the show This with fortuitous the tragedies of 9/11. connection between online and in-person research helped cement the company’s trust in the art of the coincidence. process for their style documentary of production investigative, that they continued to use in several of their Cosson later and shows. his collaborators cut together texts and interviews, Michael Friedman composed and the the music, company developed stylized and dance-like Date and location of premieres. 2002 2003 2004 2006 2008 2008 2009 The Civilians In process In process In process 192 Sarah Kozinn Heidami.New59E59, YorkCity, Lyons)Leslie by(Photo 2006. February Quincy TylerMiller,Caitlin table), (on DellapinaMatt Daoud Bernstine, and Figure2. (I Am) Nobody’sAm) (I FromLunchJennifer. left: Morris,Brad R. Heberlee, ence between their work and other contemporary documentary theatre productions that tend that productions theatre documentary contemporary other and work their between ence throughout. audience the band,to style visible pop-rock a of music the to military.the in role religion’s on the ments at Vineyardstaging the in As set is Theatre,this all senti- contrary two of pictures sides,force.paints take air but not the does in writing lizing The evange- on opinions of difference vast the to points scenes overlapping,staged simultaneously cadets.force the air force,across three air conversation and the The in now are children whose Mike playing Weinstein,actor an between cuts scene,action plary veteran the force air Jewish a exem- forces.an armed In US the and religion between relationship the into looks also show Springs,Colorado the in church evangelical nondenominational church,large Life a New ing capital,”surround- life and culture the Springs,investigating Colorado to Colorado. addition In its in Vineyard“unofficial movement evangelical the researched NYC, company in the Theatre Los Douglas in Angeles,Theatre Center the Group,the CA,at Theater by and produced Studio in the Theater at Washington,run a by followed Festival Humana the Kirk DC,the at for backdrop show game 1970s spectacular a created floor,stage painted hanging a and pieces,furniture a moveable few combinations.a dance-like only more is in set extended The real is something if know they how about asked being to responding kids school elementary diverse,from ranging characters.multiple extremely plays are member shows,subjects ensemble other The each the lying?”Civilians,is (The power in everyone when know we what know of duction pro- 2006 loss.their about In asked are they when on draw people associations metaphorical the Bermuda the Triangle,of myth the to rings engagement like items tal on capitalized show the The him.through the talks interpret universe “truth”can the he because believes and alien old real.not mummies”2006) are (Civilians neither And Stylistically and objectively, the Civilians’ use of music and spectacle emphasizes the differ-objectively,the and emphasizes Stylistically spectacle and music of use Civilians’ the design set Patel’s Neil of panels lit colored brightly and simple,projections still the While ­chore ography comprises quotidian movements that are then assembled,then exaggerated,are that and movements quotidian comprises ography performed at the 59E59 (I the asked,Theaters,at LunchNobody’scast performed Am) the we do “How — as one character says in his definition of what is what is “real”: of Bob definition “Sponge his in says character one as lamp. — . Produced in 2008 at 2008 City.in Beautiful Produced This to a man who thinks he is a 40,000-year-a is he thinks who man a to to lost shoes,sentimen- lost from to loves found.lost have From they things or lost have they things about questions general people asking investigations their into went London),company the Gate in the Theatre at 2004 in then (and NYC Belt in Theater of duction pro- 2003 projects.their next In Canard performing and developing in resolution. beginning,middle,climatic and a with story conclusive a than rather journey open-ended themes.an create shows The common by together strung vignettes of series sodic,a like epi- and plot-free are formances direction.stage per- final The the to add to choreography Their positive experience positive Their led the Civilians to their to Civilians the led Nobody’s LunchNobody’s ). in As at the at Missing Gone Steve Cosson and the Civilians 193 inter- the — say a word often enough, it say a often becomes word enough, you” (Smith they say it gives her more intimate access to this person a “docu-cabaret” [in Mechling Gone “docu-cabaret” Missing a like by which, as she says, “If “If you as by she which, says, — suggesting a distinct accessing of the person’s essence through their words 2 . From left: Marsha Stephanie Blake, Brandon Miller, Alison Weller, Brad Heberlee, Heberlee, Brad Weller, Alison Miller, Brandon Blake, Stephanie Marsha left: ThisBeautiful City. From Schwartz) The company attempts to make a new kind of theatre by treating documentary theatre with Smith first videorecords Smith and audio of her interviews and then listens and watches the tapes until she can say the words with the same intonations, rhythms, and breath as her interviewees. She believes that the way someone says something who reveals they are; saying what they say than if she repeated back the words with her own cadence and rhythms: “If we were to inhabit the speech pattern and walk in we could of the findanother, speech theof individualityanother, of the other and experience that individuality (1993:xxvii).viscerally” is It not only the words spoken that make somebody who he or she is, but also the moments and breaths taken between the words. 2. Civilians’ actors acknowledge in their performances that their presentations are their own along This with difference, the Civilians’ pretations of other the theatrical characters. strategies, performs the mulitiplicitous nature suggesting of that truth, no story It is also absolute. gives the company more freedom to play. a (They refreshing call irreverence. their show

to match serious subjects with equally Bertolt serious Brecht productions. and Erwin Piscator led the modern documentary theatre movement in and the today 1920s, artists and companies Theater Project (to name a few) Tectonic Anna and Deavere the such Smith, as Sarah Jones, make work that is most popularly Anna associated Deavere with Unlike Smith’s the per- genre. formance strategy 1993:xxiii), Figure 3. Figure by (Photo 2008. Angeles, Los in Group Theatre Center Theatre, Douglas Kirk Ackerman. Emily and Plunkett, Stephen Craig 194 Sarah Kozinn company growing. company the sees he projects,how present and and process, past Civilians’ their the about 2010 June in Greene,Fort Park,Brooklyn,in Greene both Fort NY, in and Cafe days two of period a over young,a low-budget as them “downtown”of company. Bittersweet the at Cosson with spoke I perceptions media beyond move to works organization the as productions their of scope the With several acclaimed shows and published plays under their belt, their under plays published and shows Withacclaimed several patches. neighboring their compliment some other; each with clash pieces the of some blanket: woven a than quilt a stance.particular like any more promoting gion,are avoid They productions etc.),Civilians’ the (loss,shows.evocative message-driven knowledge,are of topics thrust reli- the political Though tell.” we that the stories evade the to evolve tries and Cosson change to way a find to [...] osity it,”of curi- end and the doubt to by people’s theatre restored “encourage his is wants Cosson in believe to want you that world the so conflict some experience to get theatre you a “where assurance,”a of calls “theatre he what creating not.than do Rather others while work images these why out pointing responses,then emotional and particular illicit to tend that devices images,and tropes social common using by proclivities and habits own their up”to audiences that theatre “wakes make to characters.hopes and He subjects plays’ the of judgments quick point.vantage another yet audience the gives that bit.” little a perspective around of it instrument flip an can is then music we The that so tions expecta- certain create and in audience the draw really to song the in style or comedy of kind certain a using and genre using scenarios.at says,the good Cosson very is Friedman “Michael complicates and them,on of comments off riff a sometimes and texts interview verbatim from and Brecht Weillof work the in music and (2000:120). music, made Civilians’ sometimes The text the between with relationship “word-gesture”discordance the Daniel describes as Albright the use “music-gesture”about.”to really music in is the show structure Cosson and Friedman the what to way the pointing start really can songwriting Michael’s and music the sometimes show,the of development texts: the the “In from than composes Friedman music the from more emerge show the in connections the rehearsals during sometimes that noted has Cosson reality.”into window objective play.a is this that audience the reminds show.and a is an This not and culture of work a is This show the to audience the of relationship the changes music the of value entertainment the and interviewees.show,says,actors’ the Cosson the of of reality tatives theatrical “The artifice,its represen- as onstage actors the of reception audiences’ the thwarts sets) changeable and abstract ions.Strategically, music,dancing,(the the the spectacle and and play with engagement this opin- wide-ranging juxtaposes Cosson way movements,choices,the stage musical and the the show.”the of reality the just creation,not the and and performer the in through comes This on emphasis the puts shows our of performativity and colleagues: theatricality their “The of it,different puts with,strategy”a Cosson them 2007].) those “aesthetic as marks than This Civilians.The n.d. “Canard,Canard, Goose?” Music,in Literature, Modernism Albright,Serpent: the Daniel.Untwisting 2000. Other and Chicago: Arts. References 3. In our interview, Cosson expressed excitement when discussing the future of the company.interview,the our of In future the discussing when excitement expressed Cosson to techniques,challenge attempts these and “undo”Cosson Through expectations audience productions.their all of process development the during role important an plays Music Books, 2006). Books, and 2009) (Playscripts, Plays of Six Civilians: The An Anthology 2010).July (13 canard_goose.html Press. Chicago of University Thecivilians.org. (I Am)Nobody’s(I Lunch/Gone (Oberon Missing www.thecivilians.org/repertoire/canard_ 3 Cosson is ready to expand to ready is Cosson Steve Cosson and the Civilians 195 what trig- — , 18 August. August. 18 CBC.ca, of when I basically just can’t — The Great Immensity? The Great Immensity when Charlie says, . www.thecivilians.org/repertoire/nobodys_ . Thecivilians.org at the Public Theater, and I was The Great Immensity at Theater, the Public DVD. DVD. . It’s The literally Great Immensity. named after a ship we saw 4 The Great Immensity at Great the The Theater Public was bare bones. The actors only had a few New York: Anchor Anchor Books. York: New in the Mirror. Fires The Great Immensity really came out of me trying to figure out how to make (I Am) Nobody’s Lunch. Am) Nobody’s Lunch. (I or not deal with it. There’s or one not line deal in with it. I feel that I’m fine-tuned to those triggers in such a way that I’m very self aware. — www.cbc.ca/arts/theatre/civilians.html (7 July 2010). www.cbc.ca/arts/theatre/civilians.html The 12May 2010reading of days to rehearse. During the reading, the actors sat or stood behind music stands. were noThere sets, but they did have images projected onto a screen behind the actors. This was a preliminary showing, intended to introduce the audience to this work-in-progress. lunch.html (13 July 2010). 4. Mechling, Lauren. 2007. “Keep It Real: The Civilians Deliver Documentary Theatre.” “Keep The It Civilians Theatre.” Real: Deliver Documentary 2007. Lauren. Mechling, Smith, Anna Deavere. 1993. 1993. Anna Deavere. Smith,

“People don’t like to deal with stuff.” That’s why terrible “People things don’t happen like down to the deal road with and stuff.” the BP With oil spill nobody you solves the have it problem. on the edge of your consciousness go on and live but your then life, a certain detail will You be communicated for a little while. and the whole thing becomes emotionally real and After you having become affected by it. thought so much about what works on us when it comes to environmental issues deal. In many deal. ways it’s akin to the same or things that go on psychologically with War the Iraq the Afghanistan war or in any larger complex phenomena that for the most part you don’t really live with on a day-to-day basis. cope with it you have to tune it out? To KOZINN: COSSON: — what from makes us, it “caring” difficult forgers us andto what care, the psychological impedi- ments are What are those things? KOZINN: I was listening to and the I radio, was going about and doing a Well, something, COSSON: mayor of one of those towns in Louisiana talked about these pelicans that were endangered. Now they are but coming after back, the spill they When are they now go covered to in try oil. so they There just are run also into these and thethe rescue pelicans everglades. them, can’t fly, turtles that they’re trying but to their rescue, nostrils are all clogged with oil so they’re suffo- When you get a concrete cating. image that’s like connected that, to a it living makes thing, you picture a turtle whose Those nostrils kinds are of clogged images with affect oil. us. you trying to employ similar tactics Were in KOZINN: In many ways I was trying to put together a narrative of Yes. details to COSSON: use those triggers to elicit responses and emotions from I the think audience. the trickier thing about the theatre about how we relate psychologically to these environmental and climate issues that Through I my really experience are in so doing overwhelming. the investigation for the show, pushed everyday life out of the picture and focused on some of these larger phenomena that are scary and disorienting and in don’t that many have we, ways, imaginations equipped to under- That’s why the show is stand. called in and the but how Panama there’s Canal, this underlying “That theme which of is too big,” or we fail with deal, to phenomena deal, on Now that I level. feel like I have a real awareness of when I’m letting something into my mind and when I’m not STEVE COSSON: SARAH KOZINN: I SARAH saw KOZINN: the reading of wondering what you think about the timing of the reading coinciding with the BP oil spill that’s devastating the Gulf Coast? The Civilians. n.d. “(I Am) Nobody’s Lunch.” Am) Nobody’s “(I Lunch.” n.d. The Civilians. 2006. The Civilians. 196 Sarah Kozinn where you can’t have a forgone conclusion.forgone a have can’t You’reyou where curiosity,real from working set you’ve and inquiry real a as investigation your frame to way a found reason,you’ve particular but some for investigation real a be to that,has do it to fact. order In or story particular a getting and out going than rather think we how in limitations the or know can’t we what or know don’t we what discover to more is show the of beginning the at gation investi- an doing of purpose the that them time, tell first I the for this done have not may or may who people with work and undoing.project an a of start more I It’s Whenever COSSON: message? a of undoing an like KOZINN:more Sounds there. gets it how of process the more to.much get It’s to trying ultimately I’m that monologue the in or scene or song the in that’s message or truth lar work systems works,social how world work,the people how how of preconceptions narrow overly our away strip actually to way a as reality the of do,think I I that work reality-based the is.with person Especially that who of understanding a new paradigm. get first then that will with audience in The fit won’t that something reveals then introduction,who their but of beginning the at understand they think might audience the that character a find to try verbatim,I’ll something often doing and interviews using above.show from a different doing looks I’m road Whenever this realize they where choice another road.make this to down going go I’m or Then direction this in think to audience the leading I’m how about more something,think build I or something sequence audiences.the in perceptions I changing When of arguments,more or but messages of terms in it of think don’t I play a constructing I’m that,when say but could you guess I COSSON: hear to KOZINN:hard be might that message Youa to up people open to music the use switch. little that there’s when that’s die.”you watch in.to is,sinks pleasure singing really beautiful she’s a So what such That “It’s end,it the that at bear. there polar right cute hopefully really is a “ahhh”it it’s think because I goes audience entire the song,still the and of end the at bear polar a of picture cute a project torch-songy.and fun and we big versions is workshop megafauna these charismatic in to Even bit. little a song around torch it This flip can then we that so expectations certain create and in audience the draw really to song the in style or comedy of kind certain a using and genre using at good very is else.Friedman something Michael into play the of out audience the snap to the get A-effect,to music used Brecht how also and music use we how of example good a that’s expects.think audience I the what not megafauna,is charismatic which about song torch a into go we about.that care From you that thing the help even can’t you context full the get don’t whale. the or you bear if polar And the or bear panda the on fixated we’re because story real the system.natural the of complexity Wethe miss often we that nature.get of and don’t Because care?” Weanimals.power animals.big of Cute about sense Predators. care a us give that Things people make megafauna.to charismatic take about it talks does she “What where interviews scientist’s the of one with idea an plant we act first the in how goals.be might example good A similar way.are a there in sometimes is aesthetic,think It different I COSSON: very but a has It KOZINN:Brechtian. Sounds show.the into that of critique a build and affected were they why on perspective ent differ- a them give and around it flip audience,then the and affect you how and argument your story,the tell audience,can your you in responses create to create order in want you what ating way.same the in media the in play,cre- or aare sciousness Inyou and performance a is it since con- our in up come way?”doesn’t same It the in Bangladesh about care can’t we but bear polar a about care can we so say,it,us then for that real change climate make bear polar a does “Why of out us snap that time.techniques same distancing the some at are game There the of outside distance.some in put to play We’retrying and also game we’re the that play is to show trying otherwise? — whatever the subject is. So there is not necessarily a particu- a necessarily not is is.there subject So the whatever — you’re interested in a subject matter subject a in interested you’re Steve Cosson and the Civilians 197 is that — a lot of the time we real- —

having just said we don’t have but a rather message, a theatre where you get to experience some con- — —

: Am) it Nobody’s Lunch seems to (I project exactly this was Nobody’s Lunch a That very show political started show in for that us. very the Nobody’s Lunch message the audience to consider while encouraging they’re watching the show (The Atlantic Yards Project). Dancers from Urban Bush Women’s Project).Yards Women’s Level Dancers (The at Brooklyn Eye Atlantic fromUrban Bush to find a way to change and evolve the stories that we tell. — subject. KOZINN: Thinking about your show KOZINN: crazy political moment that we and were we in, put a lot of work into how we could engage in that up your collaborators to be surprised and confused and to because be ultimately challenged, my goal is to find a way to make art that willactually open the world up and be the opposite of what I think of “theatre as of a assurance” flict so the world that you want to believe in is restored by the end I of feel it. like my mission as and an artist that’s what is leads to me encourage to people’s doubt make new and curiosity, work idea you’re the talking idea about, that there really is no just absolute a truth, lot of stories. Whenever we COSSON: get to that stage of working on a project when everything is kind of but it’s not quite and there you yet, have coming to together, lock yourself in a room and say, “What are we What talking is about? the show ultimately doing” ize we have a kind of opposite message that A we’re play giving is to often the boiled audience. down to what might be pithy Buddhist slogans. Can you KOZINN: give me an example? COSSON: In what we’re there is no absolute at truth the you That’s and, same must the time, insist world on we a truth. In live a in. way Figure 4. Figure December 2008. (Photo in Brooklyn, NY, Lee Company and (the Brooklyn Lyceum Jane reader). Apprentice by Adrian Kinloch) 198 Sarah Kozinn is about.show the make should Which we what like exactly seemed it story that us told she when people,crazy died.”and all geese there, were the 9/11,geese we and after the and just was It left just they filming done were they when then and airplanes little these after fly to geese called with Paquin movie Anna a made Disney that me told motel,said,woman this and this at husband was her the I with “When Adirondacks process.happens what see and randomly-interview-the-person-next-to-you-on-the-bus story.or matter subject discreet or process: particular associative any very than a was There more idea an of investigation an were that shows happening.first that’s our with happened This involved.also is mind unconscious Yougestalt group,into,crazy a tap some as you like feel involved.is unconscious You’reinvolved,your is but mind analytic your and decisions making collective.a Everyone’s create perception, you your happen.but all to It’s start coincidences and time of period this for reality and culture own your project,create artistic you an on ing work- people of group a have you when that is it from enjoyed always I’ve that something before,water.work the and devised into group feet similar both done with had jump I just to instinct.on go to had deadline,Wewe a plan,and had our said,work. we lost I we Like had COSSON: KOZINN: show,first your was This aftermath.political its and sense.” 9/11 about all really are shows three first Wethe way up.a coming In performance a had meeting.that no Wemakes thought,play sense,we a no and doing makes idea idea an “our had show the in put of sort then 15th, we September which was rehearsal first it.”do just “Let’s be. would question: Our show 9/11 first Wethe the for what As for plan a had more.with work to wanted and NYU.loved of I out people just collected kids I weren’t we but company.the started school.grad of out nothing,was with WeI company young a like start did we when way.31 young.the was not I we’re company young a called been always we’ve Though Anne Washburn,Morris,Jenny Colleen Werthmann.along collected had I people all were They company: Kauffman,the Friedman,Anne in Michael still are who people of COSSIN: lot A KOZINN:involved? was else Who July.in incorporated summer.the Weover meetings of lot a had fall. We the in gig first our had way.inevitable before.an year in a did company It the WeCOSSON: developing started I company? a start begin.things great KOZINN: all How You to decision your influence 9/11 Did 2001? in started gum.of pack a and dollars matter.subject ambitious more on take could we before six We with shows two first our made resources some develop and work to how learn and oblique.develop to had company The more are that ones and matter subject the in head-on more are that projects some are There do.we everything within politics certain there’s theatre.think political I of kind certain a doing in interest the with much very company the us.started for I door the opened It COSSON: projects? other for investigations political to on you turn experience KOZINN:that Did born. was show the when That’s COSSON: Yes.working.”it’s and lying is “Everyone country?” our to And happened “What’s KOZINN: Wasdestruction?” mass of 2003? of era that “weapons The K : How did you tie it into 9/11? into it tie you did How ozinn: ridiculous. With said, doing, we were together, so we made what all idea we no show had first we Our and Canard,show.no Canard,had we Goose? in vacation on been had Kauffman Anne was a very instructive show because I had a bunch of ideas about how we’d how about ideas of bunch a had I because show instructive very a was Canard Canard,go? it Canard,did How Goose? Fly Awaythese all Home. trained They — a show version of version show a ­ Steve Cosson and the Civilians 199 the — and to get the percep- — idea. craziness. tions from these people in There a were small people town Adirondacks who in about the 9/11. who who whowere were were thoughtdevastated, terrified, paranoid, the water was being poi- it’s hard to feel anything about It’s so far away, and other soned, people “I who don’t said know. once on a school “I trip know and it’s One a but woman big I said, deal, went York to New it.” In a way I think even if we That’s didn’t all know I what we remember.” were it doing, rained. knew we needed to get some distance from being in the middle of the smell and the smoke and the But you KOZINN: inevitably brought the smell and smoke Did with you you. become repre- sentatives of the disaster? at so the everyone Then, end talked of to it us all about we it. found out that Yes, COSSON: the story this woman Adirondacks from told the us about We the geese was completely untrue. traced the rumor and found out where it and comes the from, whole story On falls the apart. internet I found an article about crazy this Canadian wonderful, guy who developed a technique on how to imprint birds on He ultra-light teaches airplanes. them how and to that’s migrate, where Anna the Paquin whole movie It’s came based I from. on found him. this story written in his quirky In Canadian-inventor the voice. movie they wanted a flock of geese going by the Center and They they needed needed somebody a to so better pitch he pilot. in, Trade World York actually comes down He to talks NYC. about going up flying at around dawn, the New People are just Center. Trade harbor with all these geese and around going World him, by the starting He to has work. this little and ultra-light he’s plane, seeing people in get- their offices, That’s what this ting this little bird’s-eye view of and downtown then Manhattan, flying away. play was leading to. That seems like a fortuitous KOZINN: find. COSSON: It was a great beginning for us because we then had faith that you can trust your instincts Also even it if was they’re a totally way ridiculous. of training us how to pursue a story, how to investigate a story in a way that we’re that still we’re involved, still drawing on our own but we’re also truly open to whatever the real subjectivity, world story is. Can you KOZINN: tell me more about your artistic process? COSSON: One very important thing that informs every aspect of our work is our conception who was Our a technique mem- was something that I of learned Waters, the from Les company. He was my ber grad of school professor the Joint in and Stock San he Diego, Company. would do a Joint Stock interviewing That’s class what for got the me grad hooked school. on the whole What was it that hooked KOZINN: you? COSSON: He He gave gave us us a a and few technique as on guidelines, a how to interview. class we’d pick a subject and go out into San Diego and find people and go through the process and do the the firstbeginning, phase of what an investigative theatre project would be first phase There of were one four that guidelines involves that interviews. Les gave us. COSSON: We didn’t. You could make a documentary play interviewing the workers down You at didn’t. We COSSON: but Ground that’s Zero, not what It we seemed do. like we had to get out York. of New This sounds a bit like KOZINN: the phenomenon we discussed in the beginning of our con- that when versation, the realities of the world are too horrible we cope by filtering themout or you coping with 9/11 by leaving? Were putting them on the periphery. COSSON: For that show we used the story of the geese only as a premise for going to the Adirondacks to talk to the people in So the of town. course the story is about all sorts of differ- But ent everything things. became about empathy and about these people’s relationship to the their relationship their geese, to relationships animals, to other people 200 Sarah Kozinn want to talk about and try to sense where they are most heated up about something.about up heated rule most The are they where sense to try and about talk to want instead.question a Avoid, terrible”“That’s or great.” “That’s they what about talk people Let rule: a really one.five. statements. not added are value It’s I there Avoid Now COSSON: Ask KOZINN: Tellrules? four the about again me COSSON: Totally. audience? your wake-up to want you Do work? your with KOZINN: Youre-create to want term up.”you the “waking sensation use of kind the this Is sensation greatest the it’s ence,feel I discover.to more experi- There’s that have and theatre learn.the to to more go There’s I When way.that work now.not place complicated more bigger a is world The liberating. very That’s does who someone met just I because steadfast not are worked people thought unconsciously I tening. going.you Youkeeps what you,that’s to and listening is someone when feel can lis- and present being at good they’re because it at good really be can actors think I COSSON: process. interview the to thought and time much so devoted has who someone interviewing intimidating little a it’s that admit to KOZINN:have I doing. I’m talk...like just people letting and much interview.too the saying of not out and staying up by shutting complexities about it’s Mostly question.a the ask to get can Youyou ways more.many talk In they so question follow-up a ask of,instead maybe sorry. then so disconnected “I’m not are tragedy,” a What to way a find you care,you listen,and that you show and empathetic be to yourself allow can dead.you she’s If with,respond just might “Yes.”mother,their hate that might glad they be reality might In and conversation.the limit might person it The interview the circumstance,in another but in that say should you that know might you and say to thing loss.”right great the a be fact in might It say,to be might impulse natural your recently sorry.“Oh,so I’m you.for terrible That’s What died parent her or his that you tells someone if that is use often I that example One COSSON: K situation. the malize things of tricks little are uncomfortable,there be but to someone want comfortable,we feel that and,someone not make it’s to say normally you that things of charge.tricks,in sorts little they’re little some like are feel There really to interviewed being is who person the allow you that so neutral be to yourself allow to important person.also a It’s as there be and listen really to how and present and engaged be to how learning as it describe objectives,different therapist,obviously.with good though a be to how learning of like kind I lot a is itself interview them.interviews,the record involves Doing we that project a doing interview.to how and listen to how people teaching Otherwise,I’m I’m if if Only COSSON: method? that to back revert ever KOZINN:you Do time. of amount concentrated a in much so do recorderwe tape because ].a recorders of tureuse we now Anyhow ges-[makesa have don’t you because conversation real a like more hours.feels four It for talk they time, when first especially the it do you when terrifying motivation.very same It’s the with remember.could he everything down write and done tree is a process behind This run then and them to talk just would place,he taking so was interview an know to people want didn’t He way the Trumanlike of kind nothing.was no It and recorder tape wrote Capote COSSON: Yes.no and notes no with interviews the class,did Stock we Joint this did we When collaborators? your teach KOZINN:you that guidelines these Are : Like what? Like ozinn: For me, in a really good interview I come out realizing that the fundamental ways in which in ways fundamental the that realizing out come I interview good really me,a For in — that sort of waking up to reality in a new way.new a in reality to up waking of sort that to say in order to order in say to not In Cold Blood. Cold In nor-not Steve Cosson and the Civilians 201 create all sorts of idiosyncratic jokes, This Beautiful City there was — — a black Baptist sermon — . It’s like that. Mrs. X is It’s Mrs. behaving like a The . that. lot Stronger against that woman, and the body and the body. We’re studying how someone is saying what We’re he or she is saying as and the body. details, and some shaking. He’s a brilliant preacher. He’s just totally in and He’s control some a and details, shaking. brilliant totally preacher. free. this preacher at a One Baptist of Marsha went church. the Stephanie and actors, Blake, saw him She and did “I’m came 40 going into minutes to rehearsal of do and the his said, ser- sermon.” and it mon, was a big Baptist sermon KOZINN: — KOZINN: Mrs. Y, who is just sitting there saying nothing. Y, Mrs. react against your projection onto that person? You KOZINN: and the fifth thing I encourage people to do is “neutral practice empa- their Yes, COSSON: That’s why actors which can You is be how particularly to good be at a it. good listener. thetic,” can can hear say so much with your body language and You what’s coming through your eyes. it if you are actually present in the moment People and try are not letting your mind wander. to process what’s try being to said, figure out what they think and about try it, to think of what This questions pulls to them ask away about from it. the engagement. As actors we’re trained to KOZINN: read between the lines and Even the though words. we’re listening to we’re the listening words, to the breath COSSON: — well as the content of the statements. Actors do COSSON: receive If more we information. do a company-driven interview show, we’ll combine interviewing An with actor getting might together interview and some- meeting. put her and notes re-­ down, one on Monday and then come into Tuesday, rehearsal on The actors perform them very quickly and and inhabit then them, speak to the the interview. rest of In the a group. sense the actor has to know who they think that person is and con- nect have to the that experience character of and the the then rest person we, of the company, So it’s already in its through firstthe stepactor. bridging the line between reality and fiction even though it’s all it’s Ackerman’s their For actress understanding own example, Emily words. of the woman she I just think interviewed. it’s a very freeing and exciting experience for actors because you haven’t gone through any of the traditional processes of figuring out a character actually sat in their Then living you room per- and observed them. You in order to build them. Sometimes when it the really people form clicks, come them in the and next will day. remember an hour and 20 minutes of an interview and do it off In the cuff. that balances this out is: Try to get them to talk about what’s most interesting. You’re still there to get them to You’re talk about what’s most that interesting. balances this Try out is: thinking and sensing the places where there’s tension or noticing where they’ve contradicted balance this with the so second as rule, soon as you notice You themselves or don’t make sense. That doesn’t make any wait. wait, “Wait, something like that you don’t cut them off and say, Hold I Let onto thought them sense. it. your talk mother about already whatever moved out.” Then they bring The want back other to what technique talk you is about. care being about. aware when people have finished their usual spiel and about then something, you get them to talk Really past get that. them to actually think and behave in the present. Is that KOZINN: what you mean when you talked about finding the behavior? Is it only when the script ends that we can get a glimpse of who the person is behind their social mask? For a you’re theatre trying project, to get a dynamic interaction even though Yes. COSSON: getting them to behave against you as the interviewer isn’t You’re doing or revealing very much. and for that you have this to perfect get listener, them to the end of their script. Behave against KOZINN: you? “Behave in against the COSSON: you” way that when you’re talking to your therapist you can go through all sorts It’s of like behaviors a against scene their partner. fairly neutral demeanor. It’s like Strindberg’s 202 Sarah Kozinn Denise (Photo by Applewhite) 2010. 17 April Theatre in NJ, Center Princeton, McCarter CarolynEdelstein.Hannah Domingues,and Dan Cabell,Ackerman, Figure5. (work-in-progress showing). From left: Emily Emily left: From showing). The (work-in-progress Great Immensity play that Anne Washburn wanted to write and to do, so she needed actors to stay in a room for room a in that stay play to Anne actors Washburnneeded do,she to so and write to wanted writers.commission we shows interviews.one other the There’s For did we as attached cast a picture. The full the not music.that’s with But reality from shows verbatim does that ensemble an as known largely we’re like feel project, I the because to specific as process our qualifying keep to want I project.the on depending differently very work things.we between But associations perceive to start you things,then to and responses their have you and there are actors there,the are and composer the and writer the it.and about Me talking and everything watching that’s company out. them them.figure perform to can have you you so Then interview the from a have also We way,process,a acting in the why backwards.is Youinsides their and tick they how get to have them.get can and them That’s understood and person that do really can actor that because it’s one.40-minute a of instead sermon 5-minute a edit.transcript.it’s and the that Edit off so go it I of Weand core cowriter the my to get to try COSSON: Yourecording.work.the transcribed.theatre has It’s regular She your into Then go together? put all is play the when this to “end”return can place rehearsal in sermon the improvised who actress the that ensure to director and writer KOZINN:a ephemeral.as quite do seems you process do The What road.the of end the at what’s of sense gut real a have same,you the but exactly be to going end.not the It’s at it’s know you but while tle end.the at what’s know path,Youyou traditional but the through again it lit- learn a for it lose it.recut to and have it you reshape Then you and it on work you and go COSSON: you Then cuff”? was the rehearsal “off in performance her performance,the but in this do to want you again? if this What do she does KOZINN:how But chairs. our out fell floor,the on collapsed just all she we done and was she as soon as and rehearsal in this did She was very different. For our upcoming different.project,”our very “porn For was Immensity Great wasn’t there something really connects well,connects really something cast.particular a with When stick to going you’re if especially things,of sorts all learn you and one,day from there stuff some have you because show a ating cre- of sequence traditional the of disruption great mance.a It’s perfor-of process rehearsal this through revealed being all are structures flicts, potential the itself.story ideas,con- The the the also characters,it’s the but just not seen.is already It I’ve performances from writing I’m show.the process of type that In create to also It’s COSSON: character? the KOZINN: Tounderstand better COSSON: Yes. exercise. rehearsal a KOZINN:just see,it’s I so Steve Cosson and the Civilians 203 , these shows , set Canard us off and Nobody’s Lunch, especially those two because , and like , I said Nobody’s Lunch for Gone Missing and , This which Beautiful was , City probably the most ambitious interview Gone Missing or on the right track. As As a on company the we right then track. had a belief that the play exists out there in the world. but also the Somehow structure the exists. conflictsNot andjust thethe representations story, of those conflicts are outThe there deeper walking themes the that streets are somewhere. going to resonate through the structure are out there in a real building if you just walk into the right building and art watch Of comes The it course, from metaphors happen. the fabric of life. we work with are determining how we know and understand the world and create the world we It’s live all...it in. is I’m all back connected. to my pithy If Buddhist you slogans. can be open to it will it, reveal itself to you. And how does the music KOZINN: fit in with this agenda? How does it forward the artistic and how project, is it part of the process? That’s something COSSON: that’s always different depending on the nature of the show and once the investigation phase has been completed how and it the Ultimately, plays mate- out. rial exists and the idea of what show we’re going to make from the the material process exists, of collaboration is similar to the creation of any It’s new idiosyncratic work. to the people who and how each their of So are relationship them it’s involved, to work. always each a other, little give but bit it’s different, not that different from how I To develop musicals with other people. you a range With of things: there’s they no were narrative, an exploration of an They’re idea through using verbatim texts. The texts all For I’m are It’s real my writing very not words. part, the processed. like book. The there’s texts a have series really of been monologues. constructed but into the something, music naturally has a Even different if function. it’s using someone’s it real has words, a differ- ent kind of authorial voice because as a song it has In more the form. development of the show, sometimes the music and Michael’s songwriting can really start pointing the way to what the show is If really a about. song comes it to can him, really push the show in a strong direction. And what motivated you to KOZINN: use music? COSSON: In hindsight there’s probably some deep answers but to in that, the beginning it was really because I I like like music, very and theatrical I I shows, like had Michael. just done a couple of projects with him and knew he was definitely someone who needed to be in this I group think of the people reason who why were I’m gathering interested together. in includ- ing music in the especiallyfirst for place, shows that do engage with reality and larger social which overlaps questions, with what is being done in is documentary to theatre, use very differ- The theatricality and ent the aesthetic performativity strategies. of our shows put the emphasis on the performer and the It creation reminds and not the audience just the reality of the show. This is a work It’s of sub- culture and that not this an is objective a window play. into reality. That’s a part Often of in like it. documentary in there’sjective. theatre, documentary a film, kind of weightiness to it because they are about important and Maybedifficult human subjects. suffering Documentary is theatre involved. takes that issue and makes it so very the personal, audience feels like they’ve now met and these in people, that way it becomes For more real. know they were real, actors become example, real men You who were prisoners at Guantánamo. and you know that these out actors there are was someone who said these However, real words. believe it in the theatrical here expe- in the room so with you You you, believe it in two levels. rience of being in and real you time believe and it space because with he’s this rep- performer, resenting somebody and you’re hearing their voice and somewhere out there that subject exists. There are is The our different a Civilians’ objectives, from lot interests, those of objectives. Our work overlap. is really more of a Thehybrid factsof arefact anand impetusfiction. to make a different kind of fiction that wouldn’t be possible if the artists didn’t go out and deal with it in It’s real not life. the fact in and of itself. show, or even show, five days where That’s they justThat tried was to the remember workshop. Simpsonsepisodes. For something it. like 204 Sarah Kozinn a scrappy group of young people.young of com- group a scrappy we’re We’rea because company young a called often ensemble?”of Brooklyn think small you a makes by That produced being is institutions major in produced been has who stature Ruhl’s Sarah of playwright was,a cism that funny it “Isn’t Ruhl’s Sarah of the in review the by struck really theatre.was big I a or theatre institutions.theatre in is theatre invisible, America that somewhat in and You’re small a either misunderstood feel we group a as that Civilians the to unique troupes.not downtown It’s its together identities our of all do.links we It what not it’s but respectable perfectly is tradition media square.town the in com- actors The and fairs Renaissance of think me makes It COSSON: KOZINN: Why? troupe a as to referred never we’re that is company the for wish my but not or justified is this if know understood.don’t we’re I how is beginning the since faced we’ve that challenges the output. of creative One significant more a support to able is that organization an of more into grow really can we that is company the for hope My COSSON: years? 10 in company KOZINN:the see you do Where performance.single a of instead project ongoing an of more as show the of think audience.to the is from media, idea stories new the many of With possibilities the so them,elicits performed it then and play the into that brought and interviews done we’ve if time some time.work.the of Now’s kind that do to how in expertise of lot a have we since this.think do I to supported research,be can the do to month a spend to and travel Africa to need something,might for but vision a has who made.them get really and artist Weterm an longer where a organization over an and create will deeper in invest to going we’re that projects find to going we’re science about plays new 10 ing way.new a in development play do commission- and of people Instead more in bring would company,the with associated already are who people also or but me by work commission just not to able we’re where program a into that issues,make environmental and at looking and tists learned from doing from learned with Atlantic we’ve what Yardstake goal.would this It under fall would Springs Colorado and did we projects issues.the justice Certainly social with deal and political more are that plays ing develop- in in.interested instance,interested are For really we we’re that areas couple a identify and programs commissioning play new our formalize actually to are do to want we programs own.new their the on of working ideas artist The single a by done be couldn’t that ones the are support to able be to want I scope.that and plays matter of subject kinds of The kind ent differ-a on take can that theatre support to able be to statement,is that the do I “why”why of world.mission broader the the in with explicitly interaction Withisn’t this that,though even development,involves and and gestation its in artists other of collaboration,involvement the requires that theatre new of kind a support to able be to bolts,is and it nuts the you give to it.revise But we because statement mission off-the-cuff an give to me for hard is It Cosson: K way. broader a in mission the fulfill to nization orga- our of scope the and work our enhance really and company led project-to-project a being from grow to trying really we’re where now stage a at we’re organization COSSON: an As that.to also? limited you not are are Who you interviews,that from but shows KOZINN: ensemble-created your Youfor best you knows public the that mentioned have : What is your mission? your ozinn: is What With — YouDown, Sit Better — the idea of “The Civilians” as a group of performers.of of group Civilians”idea a “The the New as And Yorkhave to wants especially with a fairly universal subject like divorce. In many of our other shows,other our of divorce.many like In subject universal fairly a with especially Passionproduced.Epic Ensemble Play,the Still,Theatre which criti- the , which was developed through interacting with scien- with interacting through developed Immensity,Greatwas The which we’re trying out some ideas that we’ve wanted to do for quite for do to wanted we’ve that ideas some out trying we’re again. [by Charles Isherwood] Charles Times[by Steve Cosson and the Civilians 205 pany and we’re not of Anne Bogart’s or the Wooster Group’s generation. I’m not young. We’re We’re I’m Group’s not generation. young. pany and we’re Anne not Bogart’s Wooster of or the I’m if not 15 we’re my young. years still hope older So, is than that young. 10 years from now, the company around, is still about being a very creative weed breaking up through the concrete, while at the same time we’re understood to be a legitimate organization that is able to do some- thing that’s valuable to the fieldand to And the ultimately culture I as do a thinkwhole. that and break- companies whose like organizational ours, culture is all flexibility, about innovation, has a very special role ing that down is the recognized walls “theatre,” and of understood the by the culture we work in.