CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT

RURAL AND REGIONAL SERVICES AND DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE

Inquiry into country football

Melbourne – 31 May 2004

Members

Mr M. P. Crutchfield Mr R. G. Mitchell Mr B. P. Hardman Dr D. V. Napthine Mr C. Ingram Mr P. L. Walsh Mr J. M. McQuilten

Chair: Mr B. P. Hardman Deputy Chair: Mr C. Ingram

Staff

Executive Officer: Ms K. Murray Research Officer: Dr V. Koops

Witness

Mr T. Hafey (sworn).

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 1 CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT

The CHAIR — Tommy, I know you have been here for a while so I will not read out that statement. For the purposes of the transcript, will you provide your full name and address?

Mr HAFEY — Thomas Stanley Raymond Hafey, but known as Tommy Hafey; 1/40 Marine Parade, St Kilda 3182.

The CHAIR — Thank you very much for giving us your time today. If you would give us your presentation and then we will ask questions.

Mr HAFEY — What I do is go around to schools. I have been to Monbulk today. I speak on loving your parents, non-drinking and non-smoking. I talk strongly about playing sport and I talk about handling rejection. That is one of the things I do. I do 55 000 to 60 000 kilometres a year in my car. I also take football training all around the country. So I would see more of these places than anybody in Australia. Listen to these: Alvie, Macorna, , Catani, Ellinbank, Rennie, Nirranda, Noradjuha-Quantong, Pimpinio, Cora Lynn — I have taken training in every one of them. They have not got a general store, but have a football-netball club. Hear what I am saying? I am all over the place. Last week I was at Gladstone Park; this week I am at Hampton Park. Then I have Birregurra, Buchan — I was down at Cerberus, Lake Boga, Lake Bolac. You name it, I have been there, so I see and understand it.

It hurts me when I see football struggling in a lot of areas. Obviously because of the way the farming is, and also country is, it is a bit of a problem in as much as a lot of sides are disappearing. I try to encourage everybody to get back to the local football. I was at Chiltern only two weeks back. I try to encourage people, not only the players, but also the older folk if they can get down and help. Because the unfortunate part about it is that a lot of the people who run the football clubs have very little business sense. It is difficult to get people to work at football clubs. Most of them are truck drivers or they work on farms and they have to try to raise a big dollar. They knock off work to carry bricks, if it comes to a point, don’t they? I think it is pretty tough on them.

This will give you an indication of the way I feel about it: I was doing a sportsmen’s night down at Portland with Crackers Keenan. An old fellow said to me, ‘Tommy, since our little football-netball club at closed down’ — which was five or six years back at that stage — ‘I have not seen my next-door neighbour. I see his car whizzing down the highway’. The football-netball used to bring everybody out. People do not understand that. The AFL would not understand it. The unfortunate part of it is that the AFL, the government and the council give them nothing and, as you know, they are trying to raise a dollar, which is a tough job. Maybe the football clubs did the wrong thing. Instead of having it tribal, as it used to be, in their haste to win a premiership they brought in players and stuff like that and some of them just cannot compete. They are never going to raise a dollar to buy in big-name players. Some of the players are running around on $1000 a week — do you realise that? How can little clubs even be opposition to clubs like that?

I can remember doing a night up at and saying to a lady, ‘Who do you barrack for?’. She said, ‘Football — don’t bring it up. I can’t stand football. I hate football’. I immediately ignored that so-and-so for the rest of the night. I turned to her middle-aged daughter standing next to her and I said, ‘Why would you hate football? You don’t have to be a fanatic, but you’ve got to have a football club’. It is very un-Australian, it’s very un-Victorian if you haven’t got a football club. I said, ‘But do you realise’ — I am ignoring this lady, talking to her daughter and her husband — ‘in football-netball there is no race, colour, creed? There is no rule for the rich and a rule for the poor? It does not matter what school you went to, what car you drive or what size house you live in, when you get down to the ground everybody is an equal’. I said, ‘The camaraderie, the respect, the friendships that you make in football, the life disciplines — hey, they’re there forever, aren’t they?’.

I can remember I was doing a night at Beulah up in the Mallee, with a 300 population. An old fellow came rushing over. He said, ‘I used to collect your garbage down in St Kilda’. I said, ‘What are you doing in Beulah?’. He said, ‘I retired, bought a house — $30 000. I’ve never been a football person, but I am now. I’ve got 50 new mates’. What a great way of putting it. And that is the thing I try to create — people turning up and helping out. But it is one helluva fight.

When you think of all the clubs that have disappeared, do you know that only last year a Sunday paper said that 100 teams, I think, had disappeared in the last 20 years? Here is a little map of Ouyen United. Ouyen United is down the bottom; there are 22 clubs gone to make up Ouyen United. Did you realise that? There used to be an entire competition; now it is one team — and struggling at present. But that is not only Ouyen; that is everywhere. I

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 2 CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT can remember I was up at Woomelang and I stopped at a beautiful property — 6000 acres and the wheat was this high. The farmer has three children — all in . They do not want to work there. He has to hire in people. And that is the unfortunate part about it because we are losing them. I am not a great lover of the under-18 competition. I think that is against what football is all about. They are taking people away who should be playing for their own little team.

I was up at Robinvale last year and I asked, ‘Who played league football from your little club?’. There have been five in the 100 years the club has been going. Would you believe they had five players down with the Bendigo Rebels? I rang the lady — the secretary-president — before I came here today and she said two of them returned, but the other three are a loss to football, they do not even play anymore. The under-18 competition is for the elite. I guess the AFL is saying that is where it is putting its money in, but that is not really country football. They are more or less doing it for the real elite and a lot of those lads never play football again.

I remember I was down at the Sorrento pub and I spoke to a lad who was about 6 foot 4 inches, a big strong-looking boy who used to be at Oakleigh Chargers. I asked him who he is playing for now and he said he does not play anymore — he is 22, 23 years old. When you think about it, the expectations are so high. A lot of these lads think they have been a failure once they do not make it. Do you know where I am coming from? They do not play football anymore and I think that is one helluva shame. Those five lads from Robinvale — none of them made the draft and only two of the five went back. That happens wherever I go. I think it is most disappointing. As I say, I try to encourage people to be active. I go to a lot of places talking to older folk, trying to get them up off their backsides and to be active along those lines. I suggest to them to go down and help out the football clubs as much as they possibly can.

One interesting point is country zoning. Do you remember when country zoning was in? We used to have our players go out to the local footy clubs. Every one of the teams had a development officer — we had Kevin Sheedy. He spent the entire day going around the schools all around the Richmond area. He could not go up to Mildura a great deal because it is a long way away and he had his football, but that was our country zone. I would say that twice a year we would send every player out on a Monday or a Wednesday night to go to little football clubs. There might be two — it might be Kevin Bartlett and Trevor Wilson who played with us at Tigerland — who might have to go out to Glen Waverley. Kevin Sheedy and might have to go to Syndal, all that sort of P.R. just for the sake of doing it. When country zoning was finished that was the end of all that. They had three people working in AFL House — yuppie castle. Could you imagine how much work they were doing? That was , and . When I went to Collingwood Tony Farrugia— he was the general manager at Hawthorn after a while — was in charge of our zoning and our going to the schools and the clinics and we had a graph on the wall of who went where. We made them go — all the players had to do that. It does not happen anymore. I can remember going to one school where a teacher told me they had had the black American basketballers there that year taking clinics, three in one year. I asked him when was the last AFL person and it was eight years ago. Can you believe that? Australian rules is the only thing we ever invented and I think it should be compulsory.

I heard what the other chap had to say here. You know what I would be doing? I even sent a letter to John Cain when I was coaching the Swans about the people on the dole. In my opinion they should be all made to work. If they get two days work they should be doing something, just beautifying, cleaning up. I know you get problems with the unions, but I believe that is so important to get a bit of pride back in the place. I go everywhere — I go to the jails. I see all these things, I am on the run all the time. When I coached the Cats I did not have a job — I am a printer by trade — I was going to go into a lifestyle gymnasium with the great Doug Wade, but it did not eventuate. After lazing around all day on the beach all day at Torquay I had to get up and go to training and it was, ‘Oh, Damn. Dammit, I have to go to training’. That is not Tommy Hafey — I am the first on the training track. I love the smell of the place, working with the players. It was pretty obvious that if I was going to be slack in certain areas there would be a spin-off so I had to find something to do to fill in my days in a productive manner. I thought if I was not the most enthusiastic person in the place the players would pick up on it very quickly — the same for the boss or the teacher; you folks would understand that. I decided to go around the schools and for three years I went — if you have ever heard this before, stop me, but you won’t have — knocking on doors and asking if I could speak to the children. I just talked to them for three years — no money. The people down at Geelong would not have even known I was doing it. I talk strongly against drink, as you can probably understand, but I also talk about self-discipline and things like that.

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 3 CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT

I do not know exactly where we are heading in our football, but it is one helluva shame when I see some of these sides getting walloped because I know the next thing is they are gone. That is not only country — Watsonia was beaten by 53 goals 32 points to nothing the other day. There is no reason outside of poor administration, incidentally, because there are enough people out at Watsonia. It is not like these other little places — Katandra, Nangiloc and all those places I go to. Any questions, fellows?

Mr MITCHELL — How do you see the kids’ attitudes these days? When you sit back and look over your career when you were coaching, what were the attitudes like then as compared to now?

Mr HAFEY — One of the problems I have — well, it is not a problem but a lot of people probably think it is a bit of a negative — is that I am so much older than them. However, I think once I start talking — I do not think it hurts them to see somebody my age who has never tasted alcohol — I do not think it hurts them to see somebody who believes in the strong disciplines I have. I can break that down in a lot of cases. At Monbulk today it was year 10; usually it is year 12 I speak to and they are usually pretty well switched on. That part of it is good. But it is not good, I suppose, for playing sport. Unfortunately because of the amount of publicity they get — and we start at a very young age now. When I was a youngster there was no such thing as under-10s; it started at under-18. Often you will find that the youngsters have played 100 games before they turn 12 and then they are into other things unless they are showing outstanding ability and they might continue on. Usually you have under-10s, under-12s, under-13s, under-14s, and no team for the under-16s; and they might have had a stack of them because they have played 100 games. I have a little bit of a problem with that thinking, but even so if you do not start them early they could go onto other things. If they went to soccer or netball, that would not worry me as long as they are playing something; that is the way I look at it. Often they will come back — they might play early and then go and play a couple of other sports and then come back.

Dr NAPTHINE — You mentioned zoning with some enthusiasm, and I share your enthusiasm. It has been put to us that we would have the best of both worlds if we had a situation where clubs were given a zone that they could nurture or look after and the return for the club would be at the end of the first round of draft picks — after draft pick 16 so the best 16, presumably, have gone — then they could swap their third of fourth-round draft pick for a priority pick out of their zone. Clubs would be concerned that they might get the very best player through that process but once the first 16 are gone, say if Richmond still has the Mildura zone they really work that area and after pick no. 16 they can decide if they pick their fourth-round draft pick for a young player out of the zone. It provides that link to the club, gives feedback to the club and gives a club a reason to work its region. What do you think of something like that?

Mr HAFEY — That would not be all that bad — at least it would be something. However, even if there is not that, in my opinion they should be doing something. I really think it is a big help to the player. I remember when Sheedy did his first football clinic. Sheedy could not kick from here to the end of the room, but he said he was kicking 10 metres further than he ever had in his life because he had to tell the players how to kick. He had to concentrate and he was kicking 10 metres further than he ever had in his life.

What you say is probably right on track but the VFL, as it was at the time, stuffed up the zoning. It was supposed to be rotated but it did not work that way. I will tell you something: the teams with the two best country zones were Carlton and Hawthorn and they won 13 of the 22 premierships during country zoning. Did you realise that? It has never been mentioned — they were runners-up six times. We had Mildura a million miles away — 6 hours away 1 and their zones were 2 hours and 1 ⁄2 hours away. Do you follow what I am getting at? We were supposed to go back in the barrel. We did not want country zoning because we felt the team on the bottom of the ladder deserved to be there and nobody would know that better than us at Richmond — we were there for 20 years. We had somebody coming in and start whipping himself and getting everything going — Graeme Richmond and Alan Schwab — and all of sudden we started being a power and then they brought in country zoning. After three years it was supposed to go back in the barrel: Gippsland and Hawthorn, like that. Everybody agreed that three years was not quite long enough so we made it five but it was not put down in the minutes. There was no way known the sides that had good zones were going to change, the sides which had reasonable sides thought if they went in the barrel they might get Richmond, Collingwood or South Melbourne zones because they were right on the border a million miles away. I am not joking — that is exactly the way it was and they won 13 of the 22 premierships. They patted themselves on the back for having terrific clubs — it was handed to them. Who do you barrack for?

Dr NAPTHINE — Geelong.

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 4 CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT

Mr HAFEY — I cannot help you. They had one of the worst zones. It was up in Finley and places like that. Here is an interesting one about the under-18 competition, I was up at Finley and a lady said to me she had to 1 take her lad from school at 3.30 all the way down to Wangaratta for training — a 2 ⁄2 to 3 hour drive. When he gets down there he is late and the coach goes crook at him. She says, ‘Don’t go crook at him, go crook at me’. She then has to wait and drive him back home. As you can understand, she gets home at 11.00 o’clock at night. She has three or four other children. How long can you do that for?

I remember I was down at Gippsland Power speaking to the under-18 players around about October or early November, for the following year. They made these youngsters come down twice a week and they also had to train three nights a week back at home. Back luck for your VCE and bad luck for your cricket. Do you know what I mean? Two lads make it out of the 150 who were supposed to be doing all this training.

It is not really the ideal way, but because of the national competition we cannot have the zones the way they used to be. At least they should be made to work, and players have plenty of time. Irrespective of what they tell you, they have plenty of time, and the AFL should be putting something back in. I have sent so many proposals to companies to sponsor me. Everybody says, ‘We have to put something back into the sport’. Nobody does; they all want something.

I will tell you an interesting story. Collingwood was mentioned here. Eddie was fantastic. I went to Adidas. As you know, I have been with Adidas for a million years. I wanted them to sponsor me, but they said, ‘No, we cannot do that, but we can give you product. What about a autographed jumper?’ I said that would be all right. At least it would be something along that line. It took Adidas three or four months to send it to Collingwood, and then it is out at Collingwood and he will not sign them. People are ringing me up asking, ‘Where is my jumper?’ So embarrassing. And this is after the season is over. I ring up and ring up. I go down and he is sitting in the car. I said, ‘Nathan, I have to get those jumpers’. He said, ‘I have to see Ned’ — Craig Kelly. I said, ‘No, I will see him. This is not my idea, this is Adidas’, and obviously he is sponsored for big dollars out there. I said, ‘I just give them to the schools and they auction or raffle them’. He said, ‘I should be getting something for it’. I finished up ringing Craig Kelly and it took him a fortnight to ring back. That is an absolute fact. The next year I thought I would ask Eddie; he might be able to get it quicker for me. He said, ‘Football should be putting something back into the community’. They finished up sponsoring me for 12 months. They cut it down and I had to fight them to get my money as well, but at least I eventually got it. Eddie was the only one who would return a call. I can only sing Eddie’s praises. It was interesting to hear the chap earlier saying that Collingwood was doing something now. I am not certain if the others do anything. Wherever I go I ask, ‘Have you seen any AFL footballers here?’ The answer is no, for what it is worth.

Mr INGRAM — Tommy, that is obviously something you think the AFL could put back into football, to send more players out to country clubs.

Mr HAFEY — Are there any reporters here? I have rung Andrew Demetriou four times this year. I am still waiting on a call. I have rung and I have his mobile number, and he said, ‘Yes, I will get back.’ Four times in the last 12 months, and I am still waiting on a call. You have no idea how many proposals I have put in to everybody: Uncle Tobys, Sanitarium, Nike, Adidas, National Bank, Commonwealth Bank — I could go on forever — QBE, government programs, anything you like. They keep on saying, ‘We have to put something back into the community’. I think the message I give them is pretty good. I would think you folk would agree, because I talk very strongly and I am deadly serious. I do not put up with any of the crap some of the school children might want to put on. But they do not, they are very good, to be honest. I get them thinking.

Mr INGRAM — Obviously you travel to smaller country towns which are struggling to maintain their clubs. If we nominated you as Premier for the day, what do you think the government could do to try to keep those clubs going, where they are still surviving?

Mr HAFEY — How long they will survive is another thing. I have been to Marnoo. I rang them up and they told me they had to pull the plug. Dunkeld — these are only the last couple of years — West Bairnsdale, ‘We are in recess’. ‘Recess’ means will not come back. That is the unfortunate part about it. The hundred years of tradition goes down the drain. It is very easy to say, ‘We will pull the plug’, but unfortunately a lot of them have no other alternative. I listened to these lads and I thought it was good when they were talking about the schools, and you folk probably did as well, but I am only talking country football, not the schools, because I do not actually take

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 5 CORRECTED TRANSCRIPT them training. I do with all the other clubs. I take them training. I am there at 5.00 o’clock: I will take the under-16s and the under-18s.

The drugs you would not believe. I do not know if you are aware how bad it is. People are ringing me all the time. I say to the school teachers, ‘Are drugs a problem here?’. They answer, ‘Tommy, if anyone says they are not they are burying their heads in the sand’. These are the best schools in Melbourne. I go to one of the best schools and talk to year 8 lads as part of a drug program. The teacher told me there were three lads in the grade who were heavily into it. The next year I went and it was the same. It is the same every year, that is the unfortunate part. There is binge drinking, as you know. I tell them, ‘I will give half a dozen reasons why smoking is a no-no. If anyone can give me one plus, I want you to stand up and embarrass me’. Nobody can because there are no pluses for it. It is the same with the drink, because I am certain that nobody goes straight into drugs.

I was furious with the AFL pussyfooting around with those two boys at Carlton. They are good boys, don’t get me wrong — not those two lads, but the rest of them are good lads. I can only pick up three or four who have ever made jail in all the years I have been connected with football. There was Jimmy Krakouer, obviously, because of the drug stuff. There are not too many more; ones and twos, that is all. Out of 8000 random drug tests they have only got two boys. They call them recreational — I don’t. Party drugs — that is crap. It is illegal. I even went to a policeman in the street the other day and I said to him, ‘I see Gary Ablett was fined $1500 for having drugs. If I have ecstasy in my pocket — I don’t know what it is, incidentally — do I get fined?’. He said, ‘Absolutely’. I said, ‘Well, why weren’t those two Carlton players?’. The AFL went crook at Carlton, do you realise that, because they passed the sentence. To me it should be instant dismissal. Maybe two years first; second time out forever. I was so upset when Garry Lyon rang up the sports editor of a magazine over in New York. Who cares? Anybody die, it would not make page 38. I was furious.

I was listening to Tim Lane going off about civil rights and all that crap, the same as on the Footy Show. I nearly pulled the plug on it, I am not joking. Kevin Bartlett rang me up to talk on SEN. I was so furious I switched to Magic, instead of listening to Tim Lane talk about recreational drugs and civil rights. To me, the AFL, which is the senior sports body in Australia, should be showing the way. It should be letting all the parents know that it will not put up with this. If you are caught you forfeit the chance of being a millionaire, because they are on over $100 000. A lad makes the grade first year out of school, he is on $45 000 plus $1500 a game. Do you realise that? What does John Howard get? $267 000: I mentioned it today. We have 200 players getting that. These boys in my opinion forfeit the chance to be millionaires.

The CHAIR — Tommy, thank you. You will receive a copy of the transcript of your evidence from today. You can correct any matters of fact or grammar, but not matters of substance.

Committee adjourned.

31 May 2004 Rural and Regional Services and Development Committee 6