BAFTA A Life in Pictures: co-presented by the Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

Announcer: Good evening ladies and like to thank our partners who have gentlemen and welcome to this helped to make tonight possible. In evening’s Life In Pictures with Johnnie To. London we’re grateful to Taittinger, in As the event is taking place in both we thank Create Hong Kong English and we are providing and the Hong Kong Film Development simultaneous translation for you on the Fund, Brand Hong Kong and the Hong headsets and packs you will find next to Kong Economic and Trade Office, that’s your seats. If you would like to the Trade Office, London. Thanks also to experience the event in English please Mr. To’s production company Milkyway turn your sets to Channel One, and if you Image. I’d also like to recognise and would like to experience the event in thank Roger Garcia who is the Executive Cantonese please turn your packs to Director of the Hong Kong International Channel Two. This evening’s event is Film Festival who helped make tonight being filmed for the BAFTA Guru website, possible, and in particular Dr. Wilfred so please ensure that all mobile phones Wong, Chairman of the Asian Film are switched off and you refrain from Awards Academy and the Hong Kong taking any photos during this evening’s International Film Festival Society for his event. At the end of the event there will support, and for making a special trip be a short Q&A session, and should you from Hong Kong to be here tonight. So wish to ask a question, please raise your I’d now like you to welcome Dr. Wilfred hand and wait for the mic to get to you Wong, Chairman of the Asian Film before you speak. Now please join me in Awards Academy to say a few words. welcoming to the stage Duncan Kenworthy. Wilfred Wong: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed a pleasure to be Duncan Kenworthy: Good evening, and here tonight to support one of Hong it is a pleasure to welcome you to this Kong’s most loved director, Johnnie To. BAFTA Life in Pictures event. Tonight The Asian Film Awards Academy was marks a historic first collaboration with established two years ago. It was a new the Hong Kong-based Asian Film Awards initiative between the Busan Academy. Together with them, BAFTA is International Film Festival, the Tokyo delighted to present one of the most International Film Festival, and the Hong versatile and respected filmmakers in Kong International Film Festival. We aim Asia, Mr. Johnnie To. Mr. To is one of to promote Asian films to the world, Hong Kong’s leading and busiest promote collaboration between Asian filmmakers with an enviable number of countries, nurture young filmmakers and films to his name. He’s worked in a range the audience. So hopefully we will be an of genres but is best known organisation that could serve the diverse internationally for his action and crime movie industry in Asia. The collaboration movies such as The Mission, Election and tonight started a couple of years ago Vengeance which have earned him cult when BAFTA visited Hong Kong, and status and critical acclaim, as well as looking into Hong Kong as a base for commercial success and recognition at BAFTA in Asia, and we felt that this kind major film festivals around the world of collaboration, introducing leading including Berlin, Cannes and Venice. filmmakers to the world through BAFTA, He’s also served on the jury in Cannes it’s a very important step in the work of and Venice, and in 2012 he received the Asian Film Awards Academy. A big lifetime achievement awards at the thank to all of you for coming tonight to Locarno International Film Festival and support this historic event for us, because the Udine Far East Film Festival. Mr. To we’re a very young organisation. And to also plays an active role in the thank all the supporting organisations development of film culture in Hong including the Hong Kong Economic and Kong, previously through the Arts Trade Office, led by Erica Ng, the Create Development Council and currently as Hong Kong and Brand Hong Kong, and Vice Chairman of the Hong Kong a very important gesture has to go to International Film Festival Society. The Johnnie To and his company because Academy, BAFTA I should say to Johnnie is in the middle of making a distinguish between academies, would movie. He has to take a break and

1 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London come here because he I think somehow is this film that he’s known for around the he has went over time and the set was world, like these great directors from the there waiting for him to go back. And past and also the present that have had that’s the Hong Kong movie style, you a huge influence over him, he’s know. You add scenes and you subtract understood one thing, particularly when scenes, and this is not a very typical it comes to the action sequences that Hollywood style of production, but that’s Johnnie To is most famous for. It’s not just why Hong Kong films are special. So a case of visceral entertainment, about really Hong Kong has been in the the wham bam, the action moment, it’s forefront of introducing Asian films to the also understanding that that needs to be world. The Hong Kong International Film tempered with silence. It’s the calm Festival has done this since the 1970s, before the storm that we see exploding and this step taken by the Asian Film across the screen, and this is one of the Awards Academy is yet another reasons why I think the cinema of important step for Hong Kong and the Johnnie To is so exciting. Let’s see some other Asian movie industries. I hope that examples of his cinema. we would do this more often, and not just Hong Kong directors or actors and [Clip plays] actresses, but from Japan, from Korea, from China, hopefully we will let the Can you please welcome Johnnie To. world know the latest development in Asia, and hopefully our collaboration [Applause] with BAFTA would grow day by day. And thank you again for coming tonight and I Welcome to London and BAFTA. hope you have a great time with Johnnie To. Thank you. Johnnie To: [Attempts to plug in his headset] Sorry. Ian Haydn Smith: Good evening ladies and gentlemen, my name’s Ian Haydn IHS: Put the big one, I think the big one Smith and I would like to welcome you to goes in. Okay, let’s have a look. this Life in Pictures with Johnnie To. Johnnie To’s Life in Pictures is a JT: Okay. remarkable body of work that is as diverse as it is prolific, as artful as it is IHS: I’m glad I’m not the only one who’s entertaining. It’s quite astonishing to see terrible with technology. You started in that since his feature debut in 1980 with cinema in the 1970s, which is regarded The Enigmatic Case, he has directed a as the golden age of Hong Kong remarkable 50 films. 50 films in 35 years. In cinema. What was it like working during 2003 alone five Johnnie To films were that period? released. I should say it’s incredibly hard work to prepare for this event, but to sit JT: In those days Hong Kong TV down and watch most of the 50 Johnnie broadcast was very strong, so a lot of To films has been one of the great talent came from the TV broadcasters, pleasures of this year so far. He’s also a TV channels, and they developed, producer. In 1996 he set up Milkyway started going into film industry, so it was a Image, his production company, that strong time for Hong Kong film and TV. has allowed him to continue making commercial films, but also the artful films IHS: And was there a lot of movement that are much closer to his heart, and between television and film? Was it easy these are the films that have broke out to move from one area to the other? internationally. First of all in 1999 with The Mission, which really was his international JT: Back then TV directors were already breakthrough. Since then he’s been at starting to move into the film industry so it festivals and awards ceremonies, not just wasn’t that difficult, as long as you had in Asia, but also in Europe and around the chance to do it you would take it. the world, such prestigious festivals as Venice and Berlin and Cannes. And like IHS: And let’s look at your first film, The the great crime directors, because crime Enigmatic Case, which you directed in

2 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

1980. Did you always know you wanted breakthrough year. And this was the year to be a director? that The Mission came out, which was such an international success, and really JT: No I didn’t know. After I made the first brought you to the attention of a larger film I realised I didn’t know how to make audience. And we’re going to see a clip films. After the film I didn’t make a film for from the film. For those who haven’t seen seven years. A lot of companies asked it, The Mission is about a gang boss, and me and I didn’t, I refused. at the start of the film there’s an assassination attempt on his life. He IHS: And then in 1989 you directed The survives but has lost many of his Big Heat, which is sort of first action crime bodyguards, so he brings together a film. Is this a genre that you’ve sort of group of tough guys to look after him. always loved? These tough guys don’t all know each other and so what we see in the first JT: Not really, I wasn’t really interested in stages of the film is a bonding exercise, making action film, it was ’s an attempt to get to know each other fault, he told me to do it. I always used to because they realise they’re going to do kung fu films on TV, so when I went to have to be like brothers, not just to look make cinema I didn’t want to make after their boss, but to ensure that they action film at all. survive. The sequence that we’re going to see is an attempt on their part to sort IHS: And in terms of the early part of your of further this bonding process. career over the first decade or so leading up to the creation of Milkyway [Clip plays] Image, did you just want to try every genre just to see, to gain experience to [Applause] perfect your style of directing? They’re pretty cool guys. I’m curious that JT: Honestly I, romantic comedies were in so many of your films you feature pairs actually for commercial gain. Largely of central characters, or even a whole speaking my personal films are my own group of characters. It’s very different to labour of love. an American crime film where you have one person fighting against the system. Is IHS: And with Milkyway Image being set that a cultural thing in terms of a up in 1996, did you do this because you difference between Chinese cinematic wanted to have more artistic freedom? culture and American cinematic culture? JT: When we made Milkyway in 1996 the main purpose was to become a real JT: I don’t think so. I’m quite influenced director. by Western cinema. I think the main issue is that whatever you like, whatever IHS: And was it quite a challenge to try you’re interested in, you end up making and create this, and what were the first films about that, so I’m interested in a big few years like? group of people against the enemy, so- called enemy, so it’s my choice to do JT: Very, very difficult. Back then this that. Hong Kong film industry was very weak. Up until 1999 nobody would sponsor IHS: And you mentioned influences. Hong Kong cinema. So back then when Having looked at so many of your films we made Milkyway Image it was pretty over the last few weeks there are many much, we didn’t have any money, we directors I could mention. Sergio Leone were almost bankrupt. But when we got seemed to crop up now and again. to 2000 we started to see a turnaround Could you talk about some of the and we could start getting investors. directors that you feel have been so important to you? IHS: And let’s actually look at 1999 because this is the year that a lot of JT: My favourite… Yes, Kurosawa is a big critics have written about being your influence of mine.

3 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

in a restaurant. First of all we have Police IHS: What I like about your work is that Sergeant Lo Sa, played by Lam Suet, one when you do have a sequence that of Johnnie To’s regular actors. And he’s pays homage to a director that you may left the restaurant and is in pursuit of a love, you seem to incorporate it into the gang member. You’ll see him run inside character, you’re not just repeating a and see a guy pouring paint over a car, scene that you’ve seen before, you that’s actually the Police Sergeant’s own always add a twist to it to make it very car but he’s now in pursuit so he can’t much your own. Is this sort of a love of tell the guy to stop. There’s also the certain sequences that you want to gang’s boss Ponytail who’s left alone in incorporate them and you want to sort the restaurant and he’s about to have a of do your own version? nasty encounter with someone from another gang. And all these sequences JT: I don’t really know what influences are seamlessly intercut until we reach the me or why I use those scenes. Like when I end of this sequence with quite possibly made The Mission I didn’t have a script. It the worst advert that I’ve seen for was 1999 and I didn’t have any money smoking when under duress. so we went to Taiwan and they gave us very little money to hurry up and make a [Clip plays] film, so without any script we just started making it. And after 19 days we made [Applause] the film. So whether or not I deliberately pay homage to these directors I can’t I’ve noticed in your films that your answer that because I don’t think it is. characters smoke a lot, and your After I’ve run out of money the film is characters also eat a lot, and then you finished and that’s all I know. So perhaps expect your actors to run around an they did influence me and I do choose awful lot. I think if your films were made in those homages, to do those homages, Britain you would have so many health but I don’t actually know that and safety people lingering around deliberately. saying, ‘you can’t do that.’

IHS: There’s a story that apparently Alfred JT: Sorry, could you repeat the question. Hitchcock used to include a certain shot Was there a question? in his films, and people asked him, ‘why do you go for this style of shot?’ And he IHS: There wasn’t a question, it’s just a would say, ‘that’s one for the critics to comment. talk about for hours and hours and hours.’ JT: [Jokingly] Ask me a question. I can tell you that I actually like smoking myself, JT: Yeah this is true, this is exactly right, and I love eating as well, so everything this is exactly what I would say. Critics that I like I put into my films. and journalists can invent for you, you don’t need to say anything, they will tell IHS: You mentioned about the fact that you what you’re thinking, so much that I you don’t take very long to shoot many agree with them and I think they’re right. of your films, and you may start with a Maybe they want to show how well they script that is quite basic, yet so many could be a director, a film director sequences are incredibly complex. Do themselves. And they like to show that you ever storyboard? they’ve understood your psychology, yeah this is how film critics work. JT: I don’t even have a script, how do I make a storyboard from that? It’s not IHS: Let’s move onto another clip. This is always that quick. PTU took me three from PTU, Police Tactical Unit, in 2003. It’s years to make, but within those three a multi-perspective police drama, a years I made seven other films. So for me crime drama that unfolds over one night this kind of film is like a toy, a project, and we see lots of different stories every now and then I’ll go and tinker intersecting. And it really opens with an with it, and sometimes I tinker with it a lot encounter between different characters and it’s very quickly done. And other

4 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London times I pick it up and put it down, pick it election, so I made a film about an up and put it down, and after three election. And for example Life Without years PTU’s Lam Suet had already lost a Principle, I got cheated by a bank so I lot of weight so I had to ask him to get made Life Without Principle. fat again after three years. IHS: Let’s stay with Election. Again, a film IHS: But when it comes to action that I’m assuming you started off with no sequences they are so complex. Do you script and developed, but there’s a have any, when you go in, do you sense that you really enter quite fully into prepare a great deal in advance, this world of the triads. Did you have any particularly with your cinematographer, problems in advance of preparing for discussions of how you want a specific this film from the various organisations in scene to be set up? Hong Kong?

JT: I don’t really think about anything JT: When we made Election I did ask a until I’m on set. Once I’m on set and the lot of triad bosses and gangs, the older camera’s rolling I can start thinking triads and also the newer triads, I asked about what it looks like, so before then them about the problems they face nobody really knows what they’re doing. within the triads, so a lot of the problems And once I’m on set then the inspiration in the film are real. Of course there’s comes and the action scenes start poetic license and it’s fiction but a lot of coming out. Before that I couldn’t tell it is real. you what I’m going to do. Nobody really knows what I’m doing until I get there, IHS: And the actual election every two and I don’t know when the inspiration years itself, is that a fiction on your part? comes either. Sometimes it just doesn’t come at all and sometimes it comes on JT: Yes there is, every two years. cue. IHS: And what was their response, after IHS: In the case of PTU, you really feel like talking to these people, what was their you enter quite deeply the world of cops response to Election? on patrol and investigating gang activity. How much research do you JT: They thought it was a horrible film. actually do in preparation? Obviously I They said, ‘that’s not what we’re like.’ know you do a lot on set, and shooting They thought it would be more heroic, on set, but how much preparation in but there’s no heroes in it. advance do you do? IHS: We’re going to see a sequence from JT: A lot of the things in PTU are actually Election now. Election is, as the title real. I didn’t just do research for this film, suggests, about an election within one it’s just normal everyday life. Also in triad gang that takes place every two making other films, getting research for years, and in the case of the film there those other films I would find out facts are two frontrunners, and we’re going to which I would then put into PTU. I see one of them, Big D, approaching a collected them all together over the potential voter and trying to win him years and put them into PTU. Everything over. And we also see one of his from the police side on PTU is real. henchmen, played by the wonderful . IHS: So what inspires you, with each new project what’s the thing? Is it a new story [Clip plays] that attracts you and then you work on that and expand it? [Applause]

JT: Normally it’s just everyday life inspires When you made Election did you know me. Everything that I come across in my that you were going to follow it with not daily life, some surprises, things that I so much a sequel, but just a continuation don’t expect. Like Election for example, I of this story? felt that Hong Kong should have an

5 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

JT: It was actually both films were made IHS: And the other interesting element at the same time. with having the same actors is that you will get them to play against type, and IHS: And were you surprised, first of all the I’m just curious again from your own film screened In Competition at the development of a story no matter how , but were you basic, do you often sit down and think it surprised by the international response to would be interesting now for them to be this film? here and play a different kind of character? JT: Every time we go to Cannes it’s a surprise. I think the opportunity to attend JT: Yeah, normally I do think about it a film festival is already a very happy beforehand because they do need to business. know what their character is before we shoot. Otherwise they would lose IHS: And in this film you see so many confidence in you. actors, if you were to watch Mr. To’s body of work as a whole you see actors IHS: And obviously these actors, these returning time and time again to play. stars, they have their own screen Can you talk about your relationship with persona, and it strikes me watching your your actors, and why you do keep films, you’re not looking at black and coming back to the same group? white, good and bad, you’re looking at the grey in-between. Is that perhaps JT: Because I’m lazy. When you have to another element of why you work with take on new actors you have to get to these actors, and have them playing know them and understand them and good and bad characters? see if they understand your style of , and it takes time. but using JT: Yes, I always, I personally believe actors which know you it’s easier to there are no absolutely good people or control them. bad people. All we can know is our relationship between each other. I IHS: Okay, I’m going to disagree with you sometimes am good, sometimes I’m at this point because when I watch a film bad, and you have to understand like The Mission and you see the scene yourself, and once you understand who where they’re playing with the paper you are as a person you know how grey football, you create with your actors a we are, most of us are all grey. camaraderie that’s quite remarkable and I can’t believe that you’re so lazy IHS: So you’ve got this system of working they just turn up on set and turn on and with the actors, and then in 2009 you that’s it. How much preparation do you cast Johnny Hallyday in Vengeance. You have and how much of a conversation cast a French icon who is already cool do you have about the characters that and you make him cooler. What was the they’re playing? situation with Johnny Hallyday in terms of the way that you approach making JT: But they really don’t know what I’m films? And the script, and not having a going to do when they arrive on set, I script. don’t tell them anything. Even when we finish filming, especially that clip in The JT: This one had a script. Working with Mission, we completely improvised it, I Johnny Hallyday wasn’t particularly just gave them a paper ball and told different. We were still making that same them to play around with it. They didn’t style of film, the only difference was that know I was going to do that, I didn’t he was speaking English, everything else even know I was going to do that. Once was more or less the same. we’d finished filming they asked me, ‘have we finished filming?’, because IHS: And are there any other European, they didn’t even know, they don’t know American, English-language actors that that we’ve finished filming, they don’t you would love to work with? know when we’d finished the script.

6 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

JT: Yes, I always want to, but I don’t know JT: I don’t know, I just don’t find it… if it’s going to happen. There are lots of Maybe time passing, it just seems Western actors who I’d love to work with, unsatisfactory. if the chance happens it will. IHS: One of the interesting aspects of the IHS: That was a very diplomatic answer. way that you film violence is, and I don’t Any names at all? know any other director who does this, you have these clouds of blood that JT: But if I tell you the name and they say slowly fog up the action. When did you no I’ll be very embarrassed. come up with this idea, and why did you think it would look so good? IHS: Okay, I give up. We’re going to move on now to , which is one of JT: I think it’s because of Kurosawa. That my favourite films by Mr. To. And again if kind of feeling I think I got from his films. I you watch his films you see the return of can’t really explain it, but I feel like I’ve a number of familiar faces. Anthony seen the clouds already in his films, I Wong is a wonderful actor, Simon Yam, can’t really explain where. Nick Cheung again. And we’re going to see the brilliant climactic sequence from IHS: Now let’s move on to the other the film, and I mentioned earlier about element of the climactic sequence the calm before the storm, this is what which is the Red Bull can. Did you sit you have in this lead up to the climax. down one day and have a can of Red There’s a stunning use of slow-motion, Bull, a can of Pepsi, and a can of Coke, and there’s the choreography of this and just ask who will pay the most? whole scene that not only accentuates the gun fight, but also the chaos, the JT: I deliberately didn’t choose Coca- increasing sense of chaos that we see Cola, and I deliberately didn’t choose unfolding before us. And we have quite Pepsi. And when we were shooting the possibly the most surreal product film in the street there was a girl placement I’ve ever seen in any film. promoting Red Bull. She was working so hard promoting Red Bull, we thought [Clip plays] actually it tastes alright, so she gave me a can and I took it over to make that [Applause] scene, and that’s how it happened. Just by chance she was on the street. So I’m The climax to Exiled is one of my not sure if she got lucky or the company favourite sequences in any of your films, got lucky. it’s also one of the most astonishing action sequences I’ve seen. I know you IHS: I always imagine a bunch of Red Bull like to improvise on set, but with a company executives sitting down and sequence like this that’s so complex, watching this film, and the look of horror would you just shoot an enormous on their face. Too much energy caused amount of coverage and then just hope this violence! Let’s talk about music. It’s that everything comes together in something we’ve not touched on yet, editing? and to hear the music in the final sequence of Exiled was to take me back JT: No we didn’t really shoot that much. to Ennio Morricone and his western No because I didn’t have enough scores. But the music in all of your films is money to get that much footage. When unique and works so well, how early do I set out to make this film I did intend you bring a composer on board to sort always to have this kind of scene as its of get an idea of what you want? climax, so I already knew, and we put a lot of money into making that scene. But JT: When I first start making the film I now when I watch it back I don’t like it. already know what kind of mood the music has to have, and once I’ve got IHS: What is it you don’t like about it? that then I start making the film.

7 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London

IHS: Both Stanley Kubrick and Akira Ka-Fai. Even though he’s not really a Kurosawa used to play music on set. Is company worker, he doesn’t like being a that something you do during any boss of a company, but he completely sequences? influenced Milkyway. He is basically the big boss, the brain behind the project. JT: While I’m shooting I don’t play music, but before while I’m thinking and when IHS: And in terms of your working we’re editing I do play a lot of music. process, what is it that you enjoy working When I’m shooting I don’t play music with him? Is it the bouncing ideas off because otherwise it will distract people. each other?

IHS: And do you enjoy the editing JT: When I work with him we actually see process? each other very little. While he’s writing I’m actually shooting, and once he’s JT: Yes I do enjoy it. This is the most finished writing an idea then he’ll take it important stage of the film, the editing. straight on set. So I’m constantly following what he wants to do by IHS: And does it tend to take a long time chasing his ideas, and try and think of a to edit your films, or does it just depend whole film just based on his ideas, and I with each film? think about the ways in which we can make it, but I don’t actually know what JT: Now it takes less time, in the past it he’s going to write. So our relationship is took a long, long time, but now I just tell very calm and peaceful and silent, we the concept to the editor. Back in the don’t talk much. After we’ve finished the day when it was film and I cut it myself it film then we’ll get together and we’ll took a long time. I didn’t used to use an edit together, but before we’re editor, I did it myself. completely separated, and never see each other. IHS: And in terms of speed, I’m not sure if this is correct and perhaps your can IHS: And what about a film such as Mad confirm this, that you made a film called Detective, which seems like a closer Help!!!, and from the moment that you collaboration compared to what you developed the idea through to its normally have together. Is he on set release in the cinema it took something much more on a film like that? like 26 days? JT: Not it was the same, same, we JT: Yes that’s true. Back then the boss weren’t really any much closer for Mad told me to hurry up to make a summer Detective. Very, very rarely do we get movie, so he said ‘it’s already June and I together until it’s finished, but while it’s want a summer movie, in July it has to be shooting we never meet. released.’ So I asked Wai Ka-Fai, and he said, ‘sure, let’s start work now.’ And in IHS: We’re going to move on to another three days we started working, and we film now. This is a beautifully shot for 26 days consecutively without a choreographed sequence from the 2006 script and finished it. film Sparrow, which is slang for pickpocket. But in the case of this film it’s IHS: And can you talk about your also a woman who’s metaphorically working relationship with Wai Ka-Fai, caged up by an older man. A beautiful, because if I’m not mistaken you started mysterious woman approaches Simon with him in 1990, and then obviously set Yam’s pickpocket. She needs his help up Milkyway with him. because she wants to leave this man, but he’s holding her passport, and she JT: The first time that we started working needs the pickpocket and his amiable together was actually on TV channel, team to go out and find it. And the but we never collaborated, but I knew climax of the film is a showdown in the him.We didn’t collaborate until we rain, which for my money outdoes the started making film. And once we made recent Wong Kar-Wai film no end, it’s an Milkyway it was entirely because of Wai absolutely exquisite, glorious sequence,

8 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London both in terms of its choreography and in romantic film, and it’s not something I’ve the use of the light. And we see a battle touched on before, your films have a between the old man who is a former very romantic worldview at times. And it pickpocket, and Simon Yam’s younger struck me that this film is a love letter to hero. Hong Kong, did you intend it to sort of be like this? [Clip plays] JT: Sparrow, when I first started filming I [Applause] had lots of different feelings and ideas. But at the end there’s a Star Ferry port, This is a very good example of one of the and it’s a ferry port with lots and lots of things I find pleasurable about your films, history, and the government want to the pleasure of the films sometimes lies in take it down. So one night a lot of the smallest of details. The razor blades people gathered and they decided to that the men carry in their mouths, again protest, and the police moved them. So is this something that you found out from all night long when the police were pickpockets, or is it invention on your moving people, and that night I didn’t part? sleep, I was just watching. And after watching that happen I realised that the JT: This is true, and pickpockets really do times were changing, everything’s carry razor blades on their tongue in changing, and so I felt a responsibility to Hong Kong. We asked a man to show us show Hong Kong’s past. And because and he came and performed. everything has changed I wanted to show a slice of Hong Kong before it IHS: And just in terms of the changed, and so you can see a lot of choreography of this sequence, how old Hong Kong in that film. And Hong long did it take to film this? Kong’s a strange place. A lot of people come to Hong Kong, a lot of mainland JT: A long time. It was over a week Chinese come to Hong Kong and then filming that scene. they move on, it’s a transitory place. People come and go, and nobody really IHS: And the film itself I gather took quite stays permanently, so I personally feel a long time from the original idea like this film is a cultural memory of Hong through to completing. Kong.

JT: Three years altogether. Because it just IHS: What is interesting about your films, took long because I couldn’t think of any you say people come and go, but the ideas and the money kept running out, one thing that’s permanent in your films, and so we decided to just film this scene even if it changes, is Hong Kong. And in the road. We didn’t really mean to film Hong Kong really is a character in almost it in the road, but by the end of the film all of your films. It’s almost as important a we’d ran out of money and time so we character in the films, the streets you had to do it. choose to film on, the various buildings the action takes place in or outside of, is IHS: And do you, on a regular basis do almost as important as the characters you find yourself juggling say four, five that the actors are playing. different projects? And is that part of your pleasure of working? JT: Yes, Hong Kong as a character is a very important idea, because I’m not JT: These last few years no, I’ve stopped from another place, I’m from Hong doing that, because I’m old, more Kong. So for me Hong Kong is particularly serious. In the past I used to make two or different. My father’s generation came three at a time, but I can’t do that any from mainland China, and a lot of more, I’m too old. I get really sleepy, like people swam to Hong Kong from China, now. and then they emigrated elsewhere. So it’s that sort of island, but I was born in IHS: And do you find, I’m just curious Hong Kong so I don’t need to leave, so I about this film in the way, it’s a very think differently to that generation. So in

9 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London these 50, 60 years, Hong Kong has who is in investment banking, and she’s become a character, and for me it’s a trying to convince an elderly woman to character in a film where you can plough all of her savings into a very risky decide to leave it or stay and love it. It’s venture. And like many of the different a very special place, Hong Kong. narrative strands of this film it deals with the idea of morality and ethics, not IHS: Do you have favourite places to necessarily as fixed things but as very film? movable, malleable concepts.

JT: I like Gong Do [Hong Kong Island]. [Clip plays]

IHS: I just wonder if, like in Hollywood you [Applause] can get a tour around the different places in Los Angeles, whether there’s a You mentioned a little earlier about one Johnnie To bus tour around Hong Kong, of the reasons for making Life Without and you just spot all the different movies Principle. Was that the main reason, made in different locations across the because of your own personal city? experience of what happened?

JT: I think they’d go and find it JT: Yes, I did have a bit of a loss when the themselves, there’s no bus tour. A lot of bank cheated me, but it wasn’t just that people know certain areas of Hong simple. I just found the banks were just Kong very well so they can recognise it, terribly over the top, that every bank was and they know that a lot of films are trying to cheat every single person out of made in Hong Kong, because it’s a very pocket, out of trouser, out of underwear. small place Hong Kong. So a lot of So of course I was angry that I got people already know. cheated by a bank, but it was bigger than that. I just couldn’t bear the fact IHS: And coming back to Vengeance that everyday people were getting from 2009, I wonder with the idea of treated so badly by the banks. Hong Kong as a character, did you ever think about Johnny Hallyday’s foreign IHS: It is a very angry film, but what I character being someone that you found fascinating with it, and what it has could look at Hong Kong through in common with so many of your other different eyes, through an outsider’s films is that you don’t point fingers and eyes? Or is that just me being a critic you don’t judge the characters, you just saying another one of these things? see them as a small part in a chain of events. JT: Not really, I didn’t really think of it in that way. I mainly just wanted to see JT: Yes I don’t judge the characters what it felt like to work with a foreigner. because for me they will definitely do something wrong. Each person is out for IHS: Let’s move on to our final clip. This is an advance for themselves, and that’s Life Without Principle from 2011, which when they start to turn bad. So one has even though it was made in 2011, the a cigar at the end, one has an ice filming period I know took quite some cream at the end, and you know that time. And it’s about the 2008 global they have poison in it. They will slowly economic crisis. It’s in many ways a very change over time. different film to the films that we’ve seen so far. I saw it at a film festival in Poland IHS: I think we’ll take some questions from and two English-speaking women were the audience now. We have some walking out of the cinema in front of me roving microphones. If you could raise at the end of the film and one turned to your hand please, there’s a gentleman the other and said, ‘I only thought he there. That microphone’s just coming made crime films.’ And yet this ranks as over. one of the best films that Mr. To has made. The sequence we’re about to see Q: Thank you for your films Mr. To. I’d like is one of the central female characters to ask if stylistically every time you make

10 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London a film, do you work long-term with the Kong cinema still exists, but I’m not sure if same cinematographer? it’s going to be in the same way, it will continue to exist but in a different form. JT: I tend to use the same group of A lot of Hong Kong directors have now people, so I do have the same gone over to China to make films, so cinematographers, and lighting and they’re making Hong Kong cinema in cameramen. So over ten, 20 years it’s China. We’re very adaptable and very more or less the same people. smart, and we know how to take advantage of certain situations, so we IHS: And in terms of the colours you go know how to collaborate with mainland for, your films seem to have very specific Chinese directors and learn from each colour schemes. In talking in advance other. I think luckily we still have a lot of with designers and cinematographers, young Hong Kong directors who are do you talk much about the colour, the able to work in Hong Kong and maintain look of the film in relation to the mood hat Hong Kong cinema ethic. I don’t that you want to create? think we’re in danger of losing Hong Kong cinema, I just think it’s changing, JT: I don’t really have designers. For that’s how I feel personally. example, the clips that you’ve showed tonight, there was very little design in all IHS: And how about in front of the of them. I don’t really have the ability to camera, because there’s so many invite a quality production designer, I actors that you work with. Do you see a can’t do that, so I don’t really plan it that new generation of actors coming up? much in advance. JT: There are a lot of talent from IHS: There’s a woman there, yes. mainland China, so we have a lot greater choice. But in comparison I think Q: I’d like to ask about old Hong Kong. Hong Kong actors and Hong Kong talent So since Drug War, I would consider that are very sturdy and know how to adapt as the most successful co-production, and change and take smaller parts or and now the most recent film being shot change their budget. They’re very sturdy, in Guangzhou, I’d like to ask what the and for example and other difference is co-producing with China artists like him haven’t been taken down now and then? Is the time more sensitive by the fact that the market is moving to now? Could you make an Exiled now? China. They’re very resilient and able and adaptable. JT: Co-productions normally have a boundary that you have to stay within, IHS: A gentleman did have his hand up, and you have less freedom. But if you yes we’ll go there. And then someone, if want to continue on the road of co- you can keep your hand up and we’ll production you do have to compromise pass the mic across there afterwards. a little. The best thing to do is to not make a co-production, so I just use less Q: First of all, thank you so much for a money to make my film. If you tell me very exciting interview, I’m a huge fan of that I need to go to a certain place to your films, especially Election, and I was make a film I will do it, but the best wondering whether you could tell us a situation would be if I could have utter bit more about the making of Election, freedom and not do what I’m told. about the greatest challenges of making the film, and how in the world did you IHS: Do you worry about the culture of actually approach the Hong Kong Hong Kong cinema, and the specific triads? How was it working with them, identity it’s had, that perhaps there is a and how did you survive? danger that it’s disappearing? In terms of the cinematic output. JT: There weren’t that many challenges when I was making Election. I guess the JT: Hong Kong cinema has slowly been biggest challenge was how to fit all of it taken over by China, mainland Chinese into one film. I spent a lot of time cinema, but at the same time Hong watching and researching Hong Kong

11 BAFTA A Life in Pictures: Johnnie To co-presented by the Asian Film Awards Academy 22 June 2015 at Princess Anne Theatre, BAFTA, 195 Piccadilly, London triad history, and a lot of time Q: First of all thank you very much for interviewing people. And there are lots sharing with us very invaluable of different, different tribes in the Hong information. I’m now going to do it in Kong triads, so each one tells their own Cantonese. You were talking about version of certain stories, and everyone Kurosawa and his influence. Other than thinks they’re the best, and everyone Kurosawa, when you were working in tells you they’re the best. And so you TVB, can you talk about what influences have to decide yourself how much to you had once you left TV, and the put in and who’s telling the truth, and it’s influence Wong Tin-Lam had on you. very painful deciding what to cut out and to make it fit into 100 minutes, and JT: When I was learning to make films he that was a big challenge because you was a very, very important person. Wong want to fit all of it in, all of the history. The Tin-Lam’s very adaptable and he knows, other biggest challenge was when we he’s made over 300 films, he knows the made Election 2 [Triad Election], I feel industry very well, I’ll never catch up to like I hadn’t finished, the story hadn’t him. Other than the knowledge that he finished yet. I think a lot of people ask me can give me and the experience, he’s whether or not I’m going to make very trusting and he lets you do and number three, and I feel personally that carry forward your own ideas, and giving there will definitely be part three. I you that freedom and the space to be haven’t made it yet, I don’t know what who you are. His early influence on me it’s going to be about, but it will exist. I was very big, and then afterwards when have to think about it. Yes, still haven’t we made The Mission it was different, got the idea but we’ll think about it. everyone know him when we made The Mission. After we were halfway through Q: I’ve seen a lot of your films, and I find making The Mission he called me over a lot of Hong Kong stars have started to and he said, ‘what are we doing here? go over… Which Hong Kong stars are What film are you making? I’ve been better at listening to you and obeying here for a fortnight and I don’t know your orders? what I’m doing.’ And I just told him, ‘don’t worry, don’t worry, once we’re JT: So I really respect Anthony Wong as finished you’ll see.’ So the relationship an actor, I think he’s one of the best in has changed a lot over the years. Hong Kong, but I communicate better with Lau Ching Wan. He’s a very calm Q: Would you say he was a master and actor, very often his performance, he’s you were a student? very in-depth, he goes in deep in his performance, and in his own world he’s JT: Yes, definitely, I feel like I was his a very sensitive and careful person. So student, he was the master. In fact, like those two, Anthony Wong and Lau father and son. Ching Wan are my favourite. IHS: One of the great pleasures of a IHS: Is your process of filmmaking partly a body of work such as Mr. To’s is not just desire to be surprised by what an actor the ability to return to it time and time can do with a character that you give again, but you can return to a film that them? you might have seen before and it feels fresh in light of the many, many films that JT: If we’re talking about surprises they he’s made since. It’s a remarkable very rarely surprise me in this way achievement over the course of just 35 because I don’t give them a script, so years to produce, to direct over 50 films there’s nothing to surprise me from. and produce over 70 films. Can you They’re surprised, not me, it’s the other please join me in thanking Johnnie To. way round. Yeah, very rarely, because they don’t have enough time really to [Applause] turn it around and give me a surprise. It’s more difficult.

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