TRANSCRIPT OF SENIOR MINISTER ’S WRAP-UP INTERVIEW WITH MEDIA ON 18 APRIL 2011 IN BEIJING

Q: “Mr Goh, could you just give us an overview of the highlights of your trip and specifically, you can talk about today’s meetings with Zhou Xiaochuan and Wen Jiabao. You mentioned the three old things and then one new thing. Could you maybe elaborate more on that?”

Mr Goh: “Well, I think let me start with Boao Forum. There, the theme, as you know, was inclusive growth and that's a very important topic because that’s a topic which Singapore is also talking about for some years now and as I met people in Boao and went through Eco-City and meeting Zhou Xiaochuan, the Governor of the People’s Bank of China, and Premier Wen, the theme which came across was the need to generate economic growth and sustain economic growth and how to share the fruits of economic growth. So, that was clear in Boao, but Tianjin, I could see the discussion with Zhang Gaoli, the Party Secretary, with the Mayor and also the Deputy Secretary, was all about investments into Tianjin Eco-City and about other cities being developed along the Binhai New District. So, the emphasis is always on growth, giving some jobs and raising the standard of living of the people. In other words, sustainable livelihood of the people becomes a very important issue. So, that is my take from my visits to the various places.

“For my meeting with Governor Zhou and Premier Wen, we discussed the area of financial cooperation. Now, China would like, I believe China has to, over time, internationalize the renminbi. So, we see a role for financial cooperation over here, how could Singapore play a role in helping China as China internationalizes its renminbi at its own pace. We agreed that Singapore could provide clearing-bank status for one of the Chinese banks, I mean, we would be happy to do so, look at the necessary regulations and the necessary facilities and I am glad to say that the Chinese authorities have decided to designate one of the two banks in Singapore to be a renminbi clearing bank.

“The other areas of cooperation would be in MAS setting up a representative office in China, probably in Beijing, and China likewise would also set up one in Singapore. Then China would be happy to give QFII status to MAS - that’s Qualified Foreign Institutional Investor, QFII, to MAS - which means MAS can now invest in China, in the products in China as the central bank. Then the other area would be in the study of subjects concerning crisis management. That means if there is a crisis in future, both sides would contact the other to discuss how we can manage the crisis. But, of course, before that, we would be doing research papers which are of interest to both sides and this is the way for us to get to know one another so that when there is a problem in future, we can meet very quickly to avert a crisis for us or to manage a crisis which will be hitting us.

“So, all in all, very positive meetings with Premier Wen and Governor Zhou. So, I picked up the Chinese habit of using three this, one this or two no’s and one yes and all that. So, I said ‘three olds and one new’. Three olds included reviewing subjects which we discussed earlier. One concerns the high-level discussion of economic subjects. That means officials on both sides met together once and they found the discussion useful, they will be having more meetings in future. My idea was a one- off meeting after the financial crisis, but they found it useful, they decided to have another meeting to discuss subjects of mutual interest - financial stability, financial reforms and so on.

“The other was the university which I briefed Premier Wen when I last saw him, a three-way tie -- Singapore university, Chinese university and American university. So, the discussion took place in 2009. Now we have set up the Singapore University of Technology and Design involving a Singapore partner, MIT -- that’s Massachusetts Institute of Technology -- and Zhejiang University. But China has, of course, done cooperation with other universities, other foreign universities, but this is the first time we are having a three-way tie for universities. So, that’s rather unique. So, that is the second old. The third old, of course, was the Tianjin Eco-City. That’s an old subject which is ongoing. So, I gave him a progress report of my latest visit to Tianjin. So, one new was financial cooperation.”

Q: “Is there a timeline for the QFII as well as the definition to include Singapore banks for clearing renminbi?”

Mr Goh: “No, we didn’t discuss a date. The MAS would want to set up the rep office in Beijing and, of course, they will also invest in China as soon as they can. But I think, pending some interpretation, I believe, the Chinese would approve it. It depends on us.”

Q: “So, the next step would be MAS to submit...?”

Mr Goh: “It’s for us to submit an application for QFII status.”

Q: “And what about the two Chinese banks?”

Mr Goh: “That’s for the Chinese to decide. We would, of course, go back and study how we can facilitate this. There could be certain regulations, there could be certain, shall we say, mechanisms which are required to activate this. So, we would begin to study that and wait for the Chinese to set it up when they are ready.”

Q: “Can we move on to the GE?”

Mr Goh: “Can I say no? Okay.”

Q: “Can I go first?”

Mr Goh: “Yeah, okay, please.”

Q: “Yeah, because there have been some misgivings about the quality of PAP candidates because in the past when PAP candidates were introduced, there seemed to be the ‘wow factor, but that ‘wow’ factor seems to have gone out in this election and there is talk saying that the opposition candidates are pretty, some, credible. So, what is your take on that?” 3

Mr Goh: “Well, first, I beg to disagree about the quality of the PAP candidates. Have we put up all scholars and state ones, as we had, indeed, interviewed many people with very good academic results - cardiologists, doctors, lawyers and so on - very good qualifications, we would be accused of being elitist, that how can you understand us when you are all high-flyers in your professions? So, this time, the party has decided to select people who comprise a range of Singaporeans who can serve our future better. So, in this slate of 24 candidates, we would have some people who would become office-holders. Then, amongst them, some, of course, will become ministers and hopefully, amongst the new ministers will be a core team which can lead Singapore into the future.

“So, we have such people and very interestingly this time, we have a large number of people very familiar with grassroots activities. They have served for many years in grassroots, they are known to the PAP MPs and they are fielded for that reason. The key is have they got the dedication, the commitment, the conviction and the sincerity to serve the people? So, that’s the test for us, the character issue, the ability to serve the people and then you have some younger candidates and one over 50. So, it ranges from 27 years’ old to, I think, somebody around 50, , about 50 years. So, it is, I would say, representative of Singapore. It’s a good range.

“If you are looking for a ‘wow’ factor, meaning two or three very outstanding stars, I would say, look for them in the top few people who can become your core team in the future. The opposition, of course, has got the ‘wow’ factor because they never had good candidates in the past. So, suddenly, they discover a few and then the ‘wow’ is there. But good for them, good for them, but the PAP team is a strong team.”

Q: “Turning to Marine Parade GRC, I don’t know whether the team has already been firmed up and could you assess your team members and I am curious, if you don’t mind, I would like to ask you, do you think is an asset or a liability to you and your team?”

Mr Goh: “Well, Tin Pei Ling was offered to me by PM as a candidate for Marine Parade GRC. I took her in quite happily, knowing that she is young because I was actually thinking of her serving in MacPherson. MacPherson is an estate with a very large number of old people. So, I believe that she can reach out to the young, to the not-so-young in MacPherson, but in particular, I would like her to do more to help the old people in MacPherson. I believe that when a young person visits the rental blocks, the very old woman stuck in her home, I think a rapport can be forged between them. So, that was my interest. So, I have no difficulty in accepting Tin Pei Ling into Marine Parade GRC and there is no reason for me to change my mind, having watched her.

“So, the team in Marine Parade GRC will comprise of myself, Fatimah, , Tan Chuan Jin and Tin Pei Ling. You asked whether she will be an asset or a liability. Let me tell you how we assess the candidates. We normally put them 4 through a series of interviews, some tea sessions, but the formal part is the selection panel of the party grilling them for about an hour or so and very often, we would depend on people who know people to recommend candidates to us. So, in Tin Pei Ling’s case, she was recommended by two Members of Parliament who know her well for at least five years -- , Minister and then MP Chris De Souza. So, they know her well, at least five years and she’s served for seven years in grassroots activities. And the party had also seen her taking part in YP forums, making speeches and so on. So, when she was nominated by these two MPs, she appeared in the selection committee and then at the end of the whole process, a selection committee. The committee comprised the Secretary-General, that is PM , MM was there, I was there as well. There were two other members and we have some backbenchers as well. So, it’s probably a panel made up of eight to nine people, plus ministers, plus backbenchers and so on. So, we have a range of people who can then assess the candidates.

“So, we assessed her. We found her to be suitable to be an MP. We think she would be a good MP even though we know that she is on the young side. So, that is the test. Of course, unfortunately for her, YouTube, people put it on and then I think there’s a complete distortion and, of course, some soundbites of her which depicted her as a rather lightweight person. Well, that is the superficial view of her. So, would that cause us to change our minds? Obviously, we take the feedback quite seriously. So, I’ve got feedback from grassroots leaders, from MPs, from the papers about their perception of her because in politics, perception is very important. The perception of a person can cause a person to win or lose an election. So, I am aware of the perception of her from many quarters. But I watch her very carefully. Under tremendous pressure, under tremendous public scrutiny, under negative criticisms, did she stand up? Was she strong enough? So, that is my interest. If under all this, had she melted, had she shown herself to be weak, I would then go to PM and said, now, this person is not one I would want to be on my team because if you go into battle, you want to have strong people with you. So, in my eyes, as I watched her, I found that she is a strong person. All these criticisms, she took to heart some of the criticisms which she thought could be valid, but many were not valid. She just sort of shrugged her shoulders, what to do? These distortions happen all the time, but a strong person. So, I have no reason whatsoever from that angle to recommend to PM to change her.

“I also checked with because she understudies Matthias Yao and I’ve got regular reports from Matthias Yao. He reports that she interacts with the people and she goes out to campaign on her own. Matthias initially took her, introduced her, but later on, Matthias Yao would stand in the background and let her campaign on her own. So, the latest report I have from Matthias Yao was positive. Therefore, I have no reason whatsoever to recommend to PM to change the candidate. So, my team will comprise the five of us. So, Tin Pei Ling will be a member. Would she be an asset, would she be a liability, I won’t know until the results are out. At this stage, I am confident that she will make a good MP. So, she remains on the team.

“So, the key is that we fight as a team and in the election, I would hope that the voters look at my team against the other team. So, it is team against team and Tin T

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Pei Ling should not be a distraction. I think you must know that the opposition is going to find the weakest link and make her the red herring, turn her into a distraction so that the voters begin to chase after her. But is this election about Tin Pei Ling? No. And this election is more than just Marine Parade GRC. It is about the future of Singapore and what is the future of Singapore? Well, which party, which Members of Parliament, after they are elected, can best serve Singapore’s interests? That means it is about livelihood issues. Can you generate economic growth? Can you generate jobs? Can you sustain the prosperity of Singapore? That is the real issue facing Singapore. So, this is my team and I am happy to have her, but I am aware of the sentiments against her. But I have watched her, I have come to my own conclusion. I have no reason whatsoever to worry about her being a member of my team.”

Q: “But you have also heard about online calls asking for Tin Pei Ling to stand as a Single Member Constituency MP?”

Mr Goh: “Well, there were calls for Tan Chuan Jin to stand in a single, there were calls for the future PM to stand in a single. I mean, you know, the PAP would field incumbents in singles. I mean, we fight to win. So, I am afraid the PAP’s strategy is to field incumbents in singles. So, whether it’s , or Tan Chuan Jin, they are members of a team. So, we fight as a team in GRCs and the 12 singles will fight as singles and, of course, the whole party will fight as a party to win the elections.”

Q: “But why do you think the opposition is able to garner so many good candidates this time around and especially those with like former civil servants, former government scholars?”

Mr Goh: “I don’t know, but it could be a reflection of greater interest in politics. The key is to assess the motivation of these people standing for elections. I am not casting any aspersion on them, I am not suggesting that they have bad motivations. What I am saying is in the PAP, when we interview candidates, we always try and probe a candidate’s motivation. That’s very important. What are your motivation? Is this to advance your self-interests or are you there to serve people? Are you prepared to make time, energy available to serve the people? So, we probe for motivation, we probe for your conviction, your commitment and, of course, into your character.”

Q: “But, of course, in the Singapore context, it’s actually harder to be an opposition candidate than be a PAP candidate? That is the general sense that people have.”

Mr Goh: “It’s easier to get an opposition candidate. We have seen over 200 people before we settled on 24, including . Is it? No, excluding Sitoh Yih Pin, 24 plus one, 25. So, it’s harder to get PAP candidate, seen over 200 people and interviewed over 80. In the final selection panel, I think we would have seen about some 80 people. I was not there for every interview because sometimes, I travel, but, I, myself would have sat in for maybe about 40, 50 interview sessions. Then at the end of the day, we choose 24 and we choose on the basis of, as I said, 6 motivation, ability to serve, be good MPs. There are many other candidates with very good results, but if we are not sure about their motivation, we would not have fielded them.”

Q: “What do you think is your role in this...?”

Mr Goh: “One minute. Opposition, if they get one to join them, I don’t think they worry about their motivation. They just field them. So, it’s easier for an opposition candidate.”

Q: “But it’s just not the selection process. It’s what comes after that. I mean, life is generally harder and so, the Singapore context is, if you become an opposition MP or opposition candidate?”

Mr Goh: “No, but the first is going to get elected, isn’t it? So, of course, I would say it’s a bit more difficult for them to be elected because they have no track record. There is no quality control. So, quite rightly, people should be more careful when they go to the voting booth. So, in our case, there is this process and even then, as you can see, people are examining one of our candidates quite carefully, which is the right thing to do. But that is based on superficial knowledge of the person whereas ours is based on deeper assessment of a person. Sorry?”

Q: “Sir, I would like to know what’s your role, what do you think is your role of this coming election? I wonder if PM gives you a special role to play?”

Mr Goh: “No, the role is different. PM is very much in charge of fighting the elections and he and his team, I think, will be fighting the elections. So, MM and myself have deliberately taken an active role outside the arena. We watch events actively. If necessary, we just give PM our views, but basically, the manifesto, the strategy, the new media campaign, the messages are all done by PM and his team. So, my role will be to give some readings where I think it’s useful for them to know but without trying to crimp their style because they’ve got to fight their way. This is the new environment, new electorate. So, let them handle the new electorate. And to ensure that I win Marine Parade GRC so that two new candidates can be in Parliament and amongst them, I think BG Tan, who’s got the potential to be more than a backbencher. So, that’s my role. So, actively observing and, of course, playing a role where I can. But it is PM’s election.”

Q: “Will you be mentoring any other? Besides Marine Parade GRC, would you mentor any other...?”

Mr Goh: “Not specifically, but even before the election, I have been inviting some of the chosen candidates for lunch so as to get to know them better. Just invite them to lunch, chit-chit with them so that after the process, I am still trying to find out more about them. So, in the lunch sessions, I may discover some strong points or weak points, that helps to round up a person’s profile. So, it’s an ongoing process.” 7

Q: “You mentioned about the PAP Manifesto and some criticisms have been directed at it for being short on specifics and details?”

Mr Goh: “The manifesto cannot be too detailed because if you want to be too detailed, it’s like a whole Budget speech. It’s got to be in bold strokes and a manifesto cannot also spend too much time and devote too many pages on the uncertainties facing us. I frankly would like elaboration on the challenges facing Singapore because I do believe that we are going into a period of uncertainties. Just look at the events in the Middle East. How would that pan out? We don’t know yet. At the moment, the impact is not that large because the oil prices shot up, but Saudi Arabia is pumping more oil into the market. So, the oil price is within the manageable limit. And in our case, Singaporeans have not felt the effect of the oil price because we have tightened our monetary policy. The Singapore dollar has strengthened against the US dollar. So, whilst oil price has shot up over US$100, in terms of Singapore dollars, the oil price has not gone up very much. So, people don’t see that. But can we be sure after two, three years down the road that this upheaval in the Middle East won’t hit other countries? And what if Saudi Arabia is shaken? Well, if that happens, then can Saudi Arabia pump up more oil? So, that is a very big question mark which hangs over the heads of Singaporeans, but they don’t understand that.

“Then, the Japanese unfortunate earthquake, tsunami and nuclear power station disaster, at the moment, the impact is not quite felt because Japan is a manufacturer of certain components critical to some industries. But the second-round effect could be felt. I understand that Japan manufactures some components for some thermal industry in some other countries. So, those industries might have to slow down if they can’t get the components. So, that indirect effect will be felt, but not as clearly as events in the Middle East.

“And the other long-term challenge for us is the ageing population. But ageing population is not just the old ones having to be looked after. It’s the ageing workforce. Our median age now, I think, is around 40 and you compare that workforce with other workforce elsewhere, it’s an ageing workforce. So, do Singaporeans worry about that? Well, we worry because we can project, we can extrapolate, in five years’ time, ten years’ time, oh, your workforce is going to be older. Can you compete against others? So, these are areas where I would have hoped maybe in the campaign, the challenges facing Singapore can be spelt out further.”

Q: “Okay, you mentioned about the two banks in Singapore. Will that likely be, would it be Chinese banks or Singapore local banks?”

Mr Goh: “It will be one of the two Chinese banks.”

Q: “One of two Chinese banks. ICBC or China...?”

Mr Goh: “Yes, it’s for them to decide. They have not decided. Anyway, they have not told us. So, it’s for them to decide. It has to be a Chinese bank.” 8

Q: “Things like higher property prices and inflation rising, so the ground is not so sweet this time round?’’

Mr Goh: “Exactly. So, these are the real issues. So, rising cost is a big issue, right?’’

Q: “So, how do you think this will impact PAP’s performance in the coming GE?”

Mr Goh: “It depends on the campaign. At this stage, I cannot predict, but it depends on how you campaign. I will not duck the issues because politics is about people’s livelihood. Therefore, rising cost is a very big issue facing not just Singapore but facing every other country. Inflation is a big issue. I spent some time discussing inflation with Governor Zhou. I mean, they are quite concerned about inflation in China. Well, how do you tackle inflation? So, in Singapore, we have done it by ensuring that it will be moderated through a strong Singapore dollar. But more importantly, we transfer cash to the people to ensure what they get more than offset the original costs as a result of inflation. Then housing, in China, it’s a big issue, the prices are very high. So, these are real issues. So, politics, you’ve got to talk about these issues. Can you solve them? The ground may not be sweet, but can you sweeten by having more opposition in Parliament? Can they solve the problem? So, you’ve got to come to grips who would have a better solution to such problems?

“What else? Well, the question of immigration. Yes, we recognize the concern of the people, we are moderating the flow, but that is a tradeoff. Now, MAS, we have done a study. If we had not strengthened the monetary policy, the economic growth would be much higher than what we predicted, what we forecast. But higher economic growth means additional foreign workers required. Now, maybe 100,000 instead of 70, 000, 80,000. Well, so we said no. Let’s allow the dollar to strengthen to fight inflation, but knowing full well, it’s going to affect your export industries, it’s going to affect your growth. Well, growth will be affected, then you have a slower inflow of foreign workers. You don’t require them so much. So, it’s about tradeoffs. So, this tradeoff is made, but people won’t know. But we certainly will want to moderate the inflow of foreign workers and immigrants into Singapore because we can feel that they’re quite a big presence in Singapore. So, these are real issues to be fought over elections. So, who can solve these issues better?”

Q: “Can I just ask you one last question about the outburst by Mr because that outburst, according to some analysts, have been described as showing the strain and fatigue of a one-party system?"

Mr Goh: “You mean his emotional...?”

Q: “Outburst.”

Mr Goh: “Not outburst. He just cried. Breakdown, you mean? Outburst means very angry, outburst.” 9

Q: “Okay, sorry, yes."

MrGoh: “No, no. You mean the picture where he cried? Now, Boon Heng is quite a sensitive character. There was another occasion where he suddenly could not control himself and this was at the opening of NTUC Building. I was the Prime Minister who promised him or the unions, rather, that we would give a piece of land so that the union members could stand as tall as the bankers, the professionals along Shenton Way. So, unions could be there to rub shoulders with them, a very important position. So, when I was there at the function, of course, he made a speech. He thanked me and in the process of thanking me, he broke down. So, the man might be very quiet, might be reticent, but he has emotions. So, he is very human, right?

“So, this particular case, I can understand why he broke down because he was against the setting up of the IR and in him, he had to debate because he is a very staunch Catholic. So, he was against it, then we debated amongst Cabinet members, amongst ourselves and he debated within himself. Morally, from the point of religion, he would say no and, in fact, he said so quite clearly. He said that he will be against it on that ground. But then he was a union leader, he had got to create jobs. So, what will he do? Will he stick to his religious beliefs, the moral principles and then sacrifice so many jobs which could be created? So, in the end, he took the practical solution that I think jobs would have to come first, knowing very well the social evil of having casinos in Singapore. So, he kept it to himself, but that day, he was asked a question, he broke down. So, it’s nothing to do with a one-party system. No, it’s the conflict within a person when you’ve got to debate over a very difficult issue. So, how will you debate? Some would say, no, I just go by moral conviction. But he was a union leader, he had to create jobs. So, a very difficult decision for him.”

Q: “This is a long shot, but would you be able to talk about it, pick on whether the election would come sooner or later?”

Mr Goh: “Come sooner or later, what do you mean?”

Q: “Well, everybody is saying it will be in either end-April or May. So, would it be, since you are going back to Singapore...”

Mr Goh: “I am going back, yes.”

Q: “...you know, is it high time to...?”

Mr Goh: “No, when I go back to Singapore, I would know when the election will be. No, these are issues for the PM to decide and there is no point in my speculating, or it’s no point in my telling you. This is for PM to answer.”

Q: “One very quick question. Do you expect, do you think that Singapore can soon rival Hongkong as an offshore...?” 10

Mr Goh: “No, no, no. Hongkong is part of China and some would say Hongkong is not an offshore financial centre. Hongkong does a lot of renminbi trading, but it’s part of China. And even if Hongkong is bandied as an offshore centre for renminbi, Singapore cannot rival it because Hongkong is part of China, it’s close to China, it has got much more trade with China. So, we hope to be one of the areas where renminbi clearing banks would be designated. So, we begin to trade in renminbi to help trade flows between Asean countries, maybe India and countries in the region, with China. If there is a clearing bank in Singapore, it helps trade settlement, facilitates trade. So, we have no ambition to try and rival Hongkong.”

Q: “So, do you see the role more contained within the region?”

Mr Goh: “Yes, yes, that is our primary role and, of course, those outside Singapore too can use Singapore as one of the centres for renminbi trading. That, they can do and I think as China decides what to do with the renminbi, as it internationalises, then I am sure there will be more countries, more banks being designated as clearing banks. Okay? Thank you.”