Da´Il E´Ireann

Vol. 598 Wednesday, No. 6 2 March 2005

DI´OSPO´ IREACHTAI´ PARLAIMINTE PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

DA´ IL E´ IREANN

TUAIRISC OIFIGIU´ IL—Neamhcheartaithe (OFFICIAL REPORT—Unrevised)

Wednesday, 2 March 2005.

Leaders’ Questions ………………………………1321 Ceisteanna—Questions Taoiseach …………………………………1328 Requests to move Adjournment of Da´il under Standing Order 31 ………………1346 Order of Business ………………………………1347 Prohibition of Ticket Touts Bill 2005: First Stage ……………………1351 Finance Bill 2005: Financial Resolution ………………………1351 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: Order for Second Stage ……………………………1352 Second Stage ………………………………1352 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed) Minister for Agriculture and Food Priority Questions ……………………………1375 Visit of Hungarian Delegation……………………………1377 Ceisteanna—Questions (resumed)…………………………1377 Minister for Agriculture and Food Other Questions ……………………………1387 Adjournment Debate Matters ……………………………1401 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: Second Stage (resumed) …………………1402 Private Members’ Business Northern Ireland Issues: Motion (resumed) ……………………1451 Message from Select Committee …………………………1478 Adjournment Debate Natural Gas Grid ………………………………1478 Road Network ………………………………1481 U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta ……………………………1483 Child Care Services ……………………………1487 Questions: Written Answers ……………………………1493 1321 1322

DA´ IL E´ IREANN of Jerry McCabe and the wounding of Ben O’Sullivan. There has been no change on this in ———— the last six years. In 1999, the Provisional IRA prisoners were moved to the Grove area of De´ Ce´adaoin, 2 Ma´rta 2005. Castlerea. It is an open prison, although it is not Wednesday, 2 March 2005. in any way luxurious. The procedures there are obviously less strict than elsewhere. In all prisons, ———— including Castlerea, it is a matter for the governor to determine the duties of the trustees and how Chuaigh an Ceann Comhairle i gceannas ar that is handled. I have no news of any change in 10.30 a.m. this. I have heard of reports and I have tried to check on them, but I have been told that it is ———— entirely inaccurate to say that these prisoners are in control of the prison. The murderers of Garda Paidir. Jerry McCabe are in prison and they will remain Prayer. there for the duration of their sentences. I have received no information from the Department of ———— Justice, Equality and Law Reform, or from the governor of the prison, that the circumstances Leaders’ Questions. have changed since 1999.

Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach will recall the sense Mr. Kenny: I do not know whether the of outrage that existed at the revelation that the Taoiseach has been down there or not. There is Government proposed to grant early release to a 20 foot wall around Castlerea prison and it is a the killers of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe. I secure facility. This matter was the first item on welcome the Taoiseach’s announcement that such the agenda in all the discussions that the a deal is off the table and that these persons will Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality serve their full time as handed down by the and Law Reform had with Sinn Fe´in representa- courts. The Taoiseach will also recall that this tives. Was the operation of the prison regime crime consisted of the brutal slaying of a Garda regarding these four prisoners ever discussed at on duty for his country, which is a capital offence. any of those meetings? Can the Taoiseach con- In this case, it was reduced to a lesser charge due firm newspaper reports that the killers of Detec- to intimidation. We have all heard the frequent tive Garda Jerry McCabe faxed their require- calls for temporary release of those prisoners ments to the local shop, which was then delivered involved. From media reports of the report of the by taxi? If the prisoners are exercising a veto over inspector of prisons, I understand the killers the integration of all prisoners in that complex, involved occupy a separate area of the prison has the Taoiseach considered that they should be compound at Castlerea known as the Grove. The returned to Portlaoise? What is his response to a information contained in the inspector’s report is remark made by a county councillor in Cavan last very clear that these prisoners appear to operate night that there would be no decommissioning by a veto on the integration process among all pris- the IRA until these prisoners are released? oners in that prison. Can the Taoiseach confirm if this is the case? When the Minister for Justice, The Taoiseach: The prison is secure but the Equality and Law Reform responded in July 2004 regime is that of an open prison. Since 1970, the to a question by Deputy O’Keeffe, he indicated prisoners in Portlaoise got different treatment that he had neither disimproved nor improved because of their structures. When the prisoners the regime, but that he had inherited it. What is were moved to Castlerea, they continued to the position regarding the activities of the receive different treatment. I do not know about McCabe killers in the running of this prison, the operations regarding their food and so on, but including the concern that they are operating a I am told that—— veto? The report of the inspector is very clear that the policy of integration in Unit A is not Mr. Naughten: The Chinese take-aways are working, as the provisional IRA prisoners are doing well at any rate. effectively using a veto over the duties assigned to working prisoners in the Grove. This includes The Taoiseach: They should be getting more objecting to prisoners serving sentences for sex traditional food. offences or drugs working in the kitchen or on grounds near the houses they occupy. I have Mr. McCormack: Like stew. already raised the issue of photographs being taken and the sale of goods abroad with the Mr. Allen: Or porridge. names of these prisoners thereon. Can the Taoiseach explain the relevance of the newspaper The Taoiseach: I am told that it is not a situa- reports today? tion of luxury. It is entirely inaccurate to describe the prisoners as being in control of the prison. The Taoiseach: I have made my position clear The governor makes the operational decisions on the prisoners who were involved in the murder that he believes are necessary. The only matter 1323 Leaders’ 2 March 2005. Questions 1324

[The Taoiseach.] An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to discussed with the Sinn Fe´in leadership was in speak without interruption, please. regard to the release of the prisoners. That was the only issue that concerned them. The Taoiseach: Funds have been committed to facilitate the creation of 33,000 new places. There Mr. Rabbitte: It appears that dozens of child are no plans to close centres. We are endeav- care centres nationally are at risk as a result of ouring to extend them under the equal oppor- the communication on behalf of the Minister for tunities programme. Justice, Equality and Law Reform under the equal opportunities child care programme. Staff- Ms Burton: It is a joke. ing grants for child care facilities are to be reviewed after 31 August. I draw the Taoiseach’s The Taoiseach: None of the places in question attention especially to the statement in the com- existed a few years ago. They are all new. munication that the Department wishes the services to be sustainable with effect from 1 Sep- Mr. Howlin: It is Alice in Wonderland stuff. tember 2005 through a fair and equitable fee structure. In other words, the Department The Taoiseach: There was no system or order intends that with the exception of those in what in the provision of child care places. Funding for it calls “gravely disadvantaged areas”, a definition the equal opportunities programme has increased the meaning of which is unknown, the grants from an original package of \318 million to \499 made available to community-based, not-for-pro- million. It is not the Government’s policy to fit child care facilities will be terminated and their reduce places or close centres, it is, rather, to sponsors directed to charge economic fees. create more places. Does the Taoiseach know what the imposition of economic fees for child care will mean for Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: What about the staff- parents on middle and lower incomes? Many ing grants? families on middle incomes pay as much and in some cases more on child care than they do in Mr. Rabbitte: The Taoiseach has no familiarity mortgage repayments. The Taoiseach must know with the issue. The Government is not aiding from being out and about at present that people child care through what the Taoiseach called living in the commuter belts around the city find “equal opportunities child care programmes” as it extremely difficult to source child care facilities there is only one programme, the staffing grants and that where they can, fees sometimes exceed of which he proposes to cut. By falling back on mortgage repayments. The little the Government an argument about child benefit, the Taoiseach is doing to address child care provision it now showed he has no knowledge of the cost of child care. Does the Taoiseach know the average cost proposes to partially discontinue thereby putting of child care in this city and its surrounding areas dozens of child care centres at risk. is \150 per child per week and it is very little different in the rest of the country? In the Book The Taoiseach: That is certainly not what the of Estimates for 2005, the Government has frozen Government is doing. Our policy is to respond to the provision for child care. child care needs by increasing the availability of While there is no commitment to child care in child care places through the implementation of the programme for Government, the Progressive the national child care strategy in the equal Democrats promised in its manifesto to provide opportunities child care programmes. We also 40,000 additional child care places. Through its assist parents with the cost of caring for their chil- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, dren through the provision of significantly the party is actually cutting the number of places increased child benefit which supports all parents which exist. It is a further example of the sort irrespective of economic status throughout the of spin we saw in relation to medical cards. The childhood of their offspring. Progressive Democrats promised 40,000 additional places, but is cutting the number that Ms Lynch: The Government has no idea of are there. I cannot for the life of me understand the cost. why child care is the responsibility of the Depart- ment of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I The Taoiseach: The decision was made some cannot see it being a priority for the Minister. The years ago that the provision of child benefit in communication the Department has issued puts this manner was the fairest approach to take. The at risk dozens of child care facilities, such as they equal opportunities child care programme was are, around the country. funded as a key element of the national economic development plan to increase the supply of Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: Hear, hear. centre-based child care places by 50% to 28,300. The Taoiseach: To repeat a number of Ms Burton: It is a bureaucratic nightmare. points—— Community representatives cannot even fill in the forms as they are so difficult. Ms Burton: Answer the question. 1325 Leaders’ 2 March 2005. Questions 1326

An Ceann Comhairle: Allow the Taoiseach to Mr. Sargent: The manifesto referred to a speak without interruption, please. Dublin-Navan line. It should be provided on the basis of the prioritisation of the reinstatement of The Taoiseach: I would like to answer Deputy the former inland rail route from Navan to Rabbitte’s questions, not those of his backbench- Dublin in the 1994 Dublin transportation initiat- ers. Expenditure on child benefit has increased ive, the 1999 strategic planning guidelines for the four fold to assist people with children. I under- greater Dublin area and the DTO Platform for stand its purpose very well. Expenditure has Change of September 2000. According to the increased from \500 million to \2 billion and it DTO Platform for Change, a new rail spur was to benefits everybody regardless of circumstances. be constructed off the Maynooth line near Clon- Child care places have been increased by over silla via Dunboyne to Navan by 2010 in three 50%. When the approved additional resources stages. Planning and design of the Navan line to are implemented, 33,000 places will be provided. railway order stage was to have been completed Deputy Rabbitte is only wrong on one fact, which by 2003, construction of the line from Clonsilla to is that child care is far more expensive than he Dunboyne by 2006 and the extension to Navan states. For one child the cost is from \800 to \900 by 2010. per month, including in Kildare and Meath as he It is time to apologise for the foot-dragging and will have heard. face up to the promises that have been made and the series of reports which state this must be done Ms Lynch: Child benefit—— immediately. The Government should do so now rather than wait for the by-election to make a The Taoiseach: It was acknowledged in numer- new announcement when it was already on the ous reports that the fairest approach with the best cards and promised and on which the Govern- socio-economic impact was to provide child bene- ment was elected on the basis of delivering it. fit to everyone regardless of income. There are still significant difficulties for young families, The Taoiseach: We have put \1.2 billion into especially those with mortgages, whether they are different aspects of rail transport. Two weeks ago in the commuter belt or not. Deputy Higgins asked me about the Clonsilla to Dunboyne line. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: Why is the Govern- ment cutting the staffing grants then? Mr. Gormley: The Taoiseach was asked about the Navan line. The Taoiseach: The issue has already been identified as one to be dealt with in the next The Taoiseach: In reply to Deputy Higgins’s round of negotiations with the social partners. question regarding the Clonsilla to We should avoid glib comments to the effect that Dunboyne—— an increase from \500 million of taxpayers’ money to \2 billion is nothing. Mr. Sargent: We did not ask the Taoiseach about that. Ms O’Sullivan: The Taoiseach should answer the question. The Taoiseach: I will answer the question.

Mr. Sargent: I note in today’s newspapers the Mr. Sargent: Will the Taoiseach get around to penitential experience of the Minister for Trans- answering the question? port, Deputy Cullen, who was stuck at the Blanchardstown by-pass. He has my sympathies. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy submitted his question to the Taoiseach and was heard with- Mr. F. McGrath: Did he pay his toll? out interruption. The Taoiseach must have the same courtesy. Mr. J. O’Keeffe: For this relief, much thanks. The Taoiseach: His own Deputy mentioned An Ceann Comhairle: Allow Deputy Sargent two phases. One must start with the first stage to speak without interruption. before getting to the last stage. We are not building with Lego. Mr. Sargent: Is it not clear that the rail line to Navan is overdue and must be constructed? The (Interruptions.) line should be built all the way to Navan rather than provided on a phased basis to Dunboyne. The Taoiseach: Studies have been finished Will the Taoiseach act on the promise to con- regarding the Clonsilla to Dunboyne line, the sit- struct the line? Fianna Fa´il was elected in 2002 uation is well advanced and planning is almost on the basis of a manifesto which promised the certain to go ahead. The next stage, the feasibility provision of new regional and commuter routes study, is being undertaken. That has only started including a Dublin-Navan rail line. and will look at extending the line more broadly to Navan. Of course it makes sense ultimately to The Taoiseach: Clonsilla. extend the line to Navan, but the first part of the 1327 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1328

[The Taoiseach.] The Taoiseach: Deputy Boyle got upset when process is the line to Dunboyne and that will I said the Midleton line was underway. He hopefully get underway. obviously does not want it to be underway so he got upset at the reference. The feasibility study of Mr. Sargent: I do not detect from the Taoiseach the Navan line has commenced and hopefully we any level of urgency about the matter. He says it will get that back. is a good idea, and we can all speak about good ideas. However, the Government is in place to Mr. Sargent: When did the Taoiseach last use act, particularly on its promises and manifesto. the train? Will that happen with regard to the Navan line, not just as far as Dunboyne? CSO figures pub- The Taoiseach: Deputy Sargent might, on lished last year showed Navan as the fastest- another occasion, tell me when we will also get growing large town in the State between 1996 and the N3. His view is that we will have the rail line 2001. Its population increased by 51.6%, which is sooner than the N3. almost 20,000 people, while overall State figures increased by 8%. In that regard, will the Ceisteanna — Questions. Taoiseach initiate the Navan project? Will he state it as the Navan line rather than phase one? ———— Will he say it is the Navan line, and will it be delivered by 2010? This what people need to Regional Development. know, given that they are investing, and will 1. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will hopefully continue to invest, in Navan. They need report on his meeting with the Border, Midlands to know if the service will be there. and Western Regional Assembly in December The Taoiseach mentioned cost. A study by ´ 2004; and if he will make a statement on the Iarnro´ dEireann showed the Maynooth to Clon- matter. [34618/04] silla line cost \156 million. Road building will cost between \15 billion and \20 billion and will be 2. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will announced sometime in March. Can we compare report on the outcome of his recent meeting with like with like and give a fair allocation to the rail the Border, Midlands and Western Regional programme so that the line will be built to Assembly; and if he will make a statement on the Navan? matter. [2603/05] 3. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach if he will The Taoiseach: No Government has ever put make a statement on his recent meeting with the as much money into transport infrastructure as Border, Midlands and Western Regional we have. Assembly. [3500/05] ´ Mr. Gormley: The Government has invested 4. CaoimhghıńOCaolaín asked the Taoiseach in roads. if he will report on the outcome of his meeting with the Border, Midlands and Western Regional The Taoiseach: Over \1.2 billion has been Assembly in December 2004; and if he will make invested in rail transport. The logical position is a statement on the matter. [3648/05] to build the line to Navan. The first stage is the 5. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will Clonsilla to Dunboyne line. The studies have report on the December 2004 meeting with the been done and completed, the Government is Border, Midlands and Western Regional supportive of it and we want to get on with it. Assembly. [6513/05] Some \31 billion has been allocated to the trans- The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions port programme until 2009. Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together. I met with representatives from the Border, Mr. Boyle: That is all for roads. Midlands and Western Regional Assembly on 18 November 2004. The meeting allowed for useful The Taoiseach: It is not all for roads. The Mid- discussion on issues of particular importance in leton line which helps over 100,000 commuters is the region. In general terms, these included pro- going ahead and is well underway. gress on the implementation of the national development plan, especially by reference to the Mr. Boyle: It is not underway. key objectives of more balanced regional development and the funding position of the An Ceann Comhairle: I remind members of the region post-2006. My Department will remain in Green Party that the Taoiseach is entitled to contact with the regional assembly and will keep make his reply without interruption. If the me informed of any developments. Deputy has any respect for his leader, he will allow him to answer without interruption. Mr. Sargent: My question is not unlike my previous question. Did the Taoiseach indicate to the Mr. Martin: It is beyond Deputy Boyle’s wild- Border, Midlands and Western Regional est dreams. Assembly whether he would act on his 2002 com- 1329 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1330 mitment to provide a western rail corridor? Is Was the issue of the N4 and N5 discussed with that the current Government position or has it the Taoiseach and his delegation? There was a changed? There has been a change with regard to certain development in that regard. carbon tax, even though it was in the manifesto. Is the western rail corridor on line to be built? An Ceann Comhairle: That is a separate ques- The group probably raised the need for a spur tion for the Minister for Transport. link to Shannon Airport. Is that part of the thinking in terms of the western rail corridor? Given Mr. Kenny: The N4 and N5 are the main roads that the line is already in place, to a large extent, to the west. The section through Ra´th Cruachań has the projected rise in population from 480,000 near Tulsk presents a problem in terms of to 620,000 being served by the line been taken archaeology. into account? Will the Government give a time- There is \640 million of an underspend in the frame for its implementation? BMW region. Can the Taoiseach spur on the appropriate Ministers to make decisions where The Taoiseach: The Deputy is aware of the projects are ready to proceed? study of the western rail corridor. The former Minister for Transport, Deputy Brennan, set up The Taoiseach: I will try to answer all those a group in conjunction with the western corridor questions, although I may not have all the details. group to conduct a full study which will be avail- I am supportive of the western rail corridor but able in April. I am not sure whether that where it starts and finishes depends on the studies addresses the issue of Shannon, but I met that are being undertaken. members of the group a few months ago and the study certainly covers the full link of the 12 or Mr. Kenny: It is good to hear that. 15 towns involved. The expert group which has carried out the professional study will produce its The Taoiseach: It would make sense to use the report in mid-April. existing rail lines but we will have to await the completion of the studies in order to ascertain the Mr. Kenny: I thank the Taoiseach for his reply. viability of the various issues. When I met rep- The BMW region is given Objective One status resentatives of the groups involved, they told me for the purposes of making it a priority for infra- they knew there were issues concerning the structure spend and decisiveness on the part of viability of all the lines. It is important to be sup- Government. The Taoiseach mentioned earlier portive of it. As we all know, rail makes enor- that \1.2 billion is left aside for rail transport. I mous sense and that is why we have been putting strongly support the western rail corridor. Over a huge amount of resources into railway infra- the past 25 years members of the Taoiseach’s structure. The purpose of the ten-year envelope is to try party at county council level have been very dilig- to get order into the planning process. We are ent, along with all parties, in retaining the land spending twice the EU average on infrastructure and line and that is of great value. I would like and have argued strongly about the the Taoiseach to say that he supports the opening 11 o’clock need for this with the European of the corridor from Sligo southwards. The engin- Commission. We will do so again in eers who do this tell me they could actually com- the next round, even though we will probably get plete the business inside two years. Is that part of far less money. We had underspends for decades the Taoiseach’s thinking regarding Sligo to and nobody solved them. I have argued that the Ennis? The survey only covers a particular country did not have the money at the time and section of that. The Government should give the I have given the figures to the European Com- matter its full support. mission. While we are spending more now, we Does the Taoiseach have information on the need to do so. spend or allocation to Knock Airport? It is of We are not getting the required level of private international size. sector investment in these projects. They will argue all day about what would happen if the An Ceann Comhairle: Questions of a detailed public-private partnership system was easier to nature would be more appropriate to the line implement. To be frank, however, having listened Minister. to all the arguments, I do not think they want to get into PPPs. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Mr. Kenny: I do not know whether the Ceann Cowen, is looking at this matter afresh to see Comhairle has had occasion to fly into Knock, what other way we can approach it. Even in the which is in the heart of the BMW region. United Kingdom they are pulling back on public- private partnerships. With less money from the An Ceann Comhairle: The question does not European Union and less private sector involve- arise. ment — unless they change their attitude to these issues — the State will have to fund this. The ten- Mr. Kenny: Does the Government support the year programme makes logical sense and airport as a central part of infrastructure for the obviously within that programme there will be BMW region? priorities. The necessary infrastructure includes 1331 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1332

[The Taoiseach.] orities, which communicate and work together, railways and linking roads to the main towns, which is a good system. including those in the west. We are endeavouring to finish some of the very Mr. Kenny: The Taoiseach forgot to mention big infrastructural projects which will release the central infrastructural element, which is funds. We are getting very close to the end of the Knock Airport where there are serious plans for Dublin to the Border route on the Dundalk line, expansion. I know the airport has received some which will be totally finished at Easter. The Dun- money but the Taoiseach might comment on that dalk by-pass at Ballymascanlon is underway. The matter. It is close to everybody’s heart in the Dublin Port tunnel will finish around Christmas, sense that it provides real potential for future although it may go into early 2006 for testing. development. However, we are on the last year of big expenditure for that project. The same is the case with The Taoiseach: We have given Knock Airport the road going south. As the Minister, Deputy \3 million which is part of what it requires. It is Cowen, said, some of those resources should then the biggest slice that any such project has be released. That is why the decisions on half the received, although I know the airport is seeking projects this year are in the BMW region — some more. I have spoken to the airport’s representa- seven of the 12 projects. tives twice in the past six months. The Minister for Transport, Deputy Cullen, has provided the \ Mr. Cullen: Nine. allocation of 3 million. I agree that the potential is there. It is the only investment opportunity to The Taoiseach: Nine of the 12 projects are in get a really good strategic development in that the west. It was a positive decision to do that. As area. When the IDA meets with business groups, the Deputy knows, we have difficulties on a few they all mention Knock Airport as a key facility. of the other major projects we wanted to start It is obviously correct to support the airport’s because of environmental issues but rather than ongoing development given its potential for attracting companies to the region. I do not know arguing about them we will invest moneys in what overall expenditure the airport’s representa- other areas. That is the plan. The ten-year prog- tives are seeking but they have been given \3 ramme certainly allows us to make progress. million to get on with some of the works they As we finish some major road projects on the want to undertake. east coast, \1.4 billion is being spent on infrastructural resources for roads this year alone. As Mr. Rabbitte: I wish to revert to some of the everyone can see, therefore, a huge investment is points that have been raised. Currently, the being made in this catch-up phase. Taoiseach, in common with the rest of us in the We have now outlined what roads are to be House, is experiencing the problems that have completed this year, which will be started, which come with the explosion of development in are in the final stages of tendering and which are Dublin, which has spilled over into neighbouring at the planning and development phase, including counties. There is a serious grievance at the other compulsory purchase orders. I admit it has taken end of the country about the degree of under- a few years to get to this stage. I have chaired the spending of such moneys as have been allocated. relevant committee and it has not always been I want to ask the Taoiseach specifically about the easy to bring order to the process. However, western rail corridor. I heard the Taoiseach make there is now a clear structure within the Depart- positive noises, as the previous Minister for ments, the National Roads Authority and the Transport, Deputy Brennan, did also. I have not local authorities. The planning process has been noticed the current Minister for Transport, outlined in an ordered way right up to 2015. Deputy Cullen, do so yet, although he may have made positive noises. The people who are con- Mr. Cullen: It is ongoing. cerned about this matter want to see something tangible at this stage. They want to know if there The Taoiseach: The challenge for the State is is any reality behind the positive noises. Where to keep such expenditure at 5% to 6% of GDP. are the reports that have been undertaken? In the Recently, the engineers said that regardless of Government’s view, where is the presentation by what happens to the economy we should be able the group lobbying for the western rail corridor to do that. I do not think any politician — cer- deficient, if it is deficient? That group has been tainly not myself, or any Taoiseach — would in existence for some time. Are there particular make that claim. If we can do it, however, there aspects of the presentation that need to be firmed is agreement that in 2015 we could have a very up before a decision will be made? When is it modern system. It will have to continue in that likely that a decision will be made, albeit a partial order. I have put much effort in that committee decision on a phased basis? Will the Taoiseach into getting a long-term, ordered plan, otherwise indicate an approximate schedule for such a we would just keep ticking away and would never decision? get there in anybody’s lifetime. There is now a good structure in place in the Department, the The Taoiseach: I am advised that the report by National Roads Authority and the local auth- the chairman will be ready in April. The Minister, 1333 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1334

Deputy Cullen, tells me he believes it will be in CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I note from the early April. We have been supportive of this all Taoiseach’s earlier reply to this series of ques- the way through. The report is to identify how tions that he has agreed that the single biggest it can best be achieved. There will probably be issue of concern to people in the BMW region is arguments about the viability of where the west- infrastructure in all its aspects. Can I deduce from ern rail corridor starts and ends. I have heard the what the Taoiseach said that he accepts that arguments about whether Sligo is the best people in our region are rightly concerned that location, as Deputy Kenny said, but I am not an despite Objective One status, the promised peace expert in such matters. As much as we can, it dividend and the establishment of a regional makes sense to support and engage in what is assembly that the entire region, especially the viable, based on expert advice. The finances for Border counties, feel they are being left far it are already with the Department and, from behind the east and the south of the island in presentations we have received, I know it will be terms of infrastructural development? part of the ten-year rail plan. Therefore, pro- Will the Taoiseach advise what steps he is pre- vision has already been made for it. What is not pared to take? He indicated some intent of clear from the discussions is where they should redressing the imbalance in terms of major pro- start, where it is viable and where it is not viable. jects to be undertaken. Will he outline what It has been stated that technically the way to further steps he is prepared to take to address return to a proper rail link in the west is to pro- this imbalance to ensure the Border counties, the ceed on a phased basis. I accept the Deputy is midlands and the west will get their fair share, not correct. I have not heard anybody being negative only on a continuum but in terms of the catch-up about the concept in the presentations I have and what is overdue in addressing the imbalance heard in recent years. The only argument has in investment that has taken place over a con- been about where, when and what adds up. There siderable period? What action will the Taoiseach is a real opportunity to get it done on a phased take to remedy it and will the Government basis. The report which is due some time before instruct, advise or encourage the NRA to ensure the summer will come back with recommend- that in its particular area of responsibility projects ations from the Department to the committee earmarked for the BMW region will be given and then we will have to make a decision. priority in the coming years? What steps can be taken to ensure that there is Mr. Rabbitte: Will the Taoiseach speak in gen- a significant improvement in the roll-out of eral about the current state of the decentralis- broadband into the BMW region? ation programme? A number of those towns were due to benefit from some element of decentralis- An Ceann Comhairle: That question is more ation. Will they have to wait a while longer than appropriate to the line Minister responsible for was envisaged in the precipitative announcement broadband. by the former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, or is it that some of them are off the CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: It is an aspect of infra- map entirely? structure no different to roads or rail. Broadband is infrastructure. Will the Taoiseach give an indi- An Ceann Comhairle: It would be more appro- cation of the Government’s intent in regard to priate to table detailed questions to the Minister. addressing the deficiency in broadband access in the BMW region? Specifically in my county and Mr. Rabbitte: It is a general question. that of the Ceann Comhairle, what is the status of the towns of Castleblaney and Clones? The Taoiseach: Generally the policy is that 10,300 public servants will move to the 50-plus An Ceann Comhairle: That is a specific ques- locations in 24 counties. The process will take tion for the line Minister. longer than originally envisaged. The OPW and CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Fair enough. That is a the group working on decentralisation have div- more specific question—— ided the move into three blocks. One block will move with the greatest speed. Regarding the An Ceann Comhairle: The Taoiseach cannot second block, in some areas they are down to a be expected to have details of every town. number of sites and locations in terms of building offices. The third block is further back. They have CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: ——but I am using it not been able to advance it. as an example of Border towns that have known The decentralisation group will make its only disadvantage and marginalisation over many second report some time in spring. The end of years. What does the Taoiseach propose to do? April was the date that was originally agreed. I presume that will not change because of the diffi- The Taoiseach: The roll-out of broadband has culties with the chairman. That was the date it intensified greatly in the 19 towns that were orig- was working towards and I cannot see why it inally identified. It has continued into the next 38 cannot be achieved. The third category is not off towns and it will continue to be rolled out in up to the map but clearly it will take longer to complete 100 towns. There are also community broadband that phase. schemes. There has been an enormous acceler- 1335 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1336

[The Taoiseach.] resources are being invested in these projects. ation of that activity. Eircom and others had The Exchequer has provided \1.8 billion more reduced their programme because of losses on than was planned for these developments. While the 3G licence issue but they are back in again investment in the BMW region has been behind and have been working with the Minister. There target in the first part of the plan, particularly in has been a significant intensification of the roll- the roads programme, expenditure in the region out programme, particularly into smaller towns. has accelerated according to last year’s figures. It is a positive story this year. The Minister gave Eight new projects are about to commence a detailed statement in regard to it. The prog- between now and 1 May. We are beginning to see ramme has been accelerated and is on track. A a catch-up in that investment. From the lists of great deal of work was done last year. The same roads issued last week Members can see how is true of this calendar year. much has been achieved in that area. The economic and social infrastructure operational programme is large. There has been an Mr. Crawford: I appreciate the work that has enormous increase in the intended expenditure. commenced on the N2. I hope it will continue. It Far more is being spent than was estimated. It is is proof of what is needed in the BMW region. not a question of spending falling behind the pro- The Belturbet bypass on the N3 is urgently jections. required. We want to achieve balanced regional develop- Infrastructure is all about economic improvement and an equality of expenditure between the ment for areas. The Border region has not yet southern and eastern region and the BMW received the jobs. If it were not for the IFI—— region. The BMW region fell behind because of a few major projects. I think I said nine out of 12 An Ceann Comhairle: Does the Deputy have a projects to Deputy Kenny earlier when I should question? I point out to Deputies that 63 ques- have said nine out of 18. We have now given tions have been tabled to the Taoiseach on the priority to the BMW region for starts last year, Order Paper. We have been dealing with five this year and next year. Once the three projects questions for the past half hour. to which I referred earlier are completed we can continue to do more in the BMW region. Mr. Crawford: This is the first time I have had Some of the major projects elsewhere are of the chance to ask the Taoiseach a question. I am equal benefit to the BMW region. Deputy Kenny sorry for annoying the Ceann Comhairle. made the point earlier about some of the roads. The Kinnegad bypass, which is a major project, is An Ceann Comhairle: I ask Members to con- of great benefit to everybody in the country, as is fine themselves to questions of a general nature the case with most such developments. The to the Taoiseach rather than detailed questions Loughrea bypass is under way and the Ballinasloe which should be asked of line Ministers. Other- bypass is in the final stages of planning. wise, we will never get through the 63 questions. ´ CaoimhghıńOCaolaín: Slane Bridge is Mr. Kenny: Surely the Ceann Comhairle will another example. not do down his constituency colleague. The Taoiseach: Yes. Not to be parochial, which ´ Mr. Crawford: If we got through the 63 ques- I know Deputy O Caolaín would never be—— tions, it would be the first time ever. Does the Taoiseach accept that INTERREG, CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: It is in County Meath. PEACE II and IFI funds are often used as in sub- The Taoiseach: ——his county is getting its fair stitution rather than comprising additional money share of bypasses. for the BMW region? This is why people in the BMW region are angry at the \640 million short- CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: We have waited a fall of spending in the region. Will the Taoiseach long time. make every effort during the remainder of the period in which the is money available to make The Taoiseach: Deputy Crawford has been lob- sure that the bias is in favour of the BMW and bying me for these and I have to deliver them that the money allocated to it is actually spent? to him. The Taoiseach: Deputy Crawford is correct Mr. Kenny: Well done. Hear, hear. that the money should be additional rather than being used in substitution for other funds. The Mr. Rabbitte: Not to mention the number of funds from PEACE II, INTERREG and the bypasses on Cavan Hospital. peace dividend were meant to be additional funds for the region. I had an interesting discussion the CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The rest of us lobbied other day with an individual who complained to the line Minister. me about traffic in the Meath constituency. In his next breath he complained about decentralis- The Taoiseach: The Ceann Comhairle would ation. I had great difficulty in relating to him that not be against those projects either. Significant the decentralisation of jobs could solve the traffic 1337 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1338 problems. Unfortunately, he did not agree with An Ceann Comhairle: I will take two very brief me. questions and I ask Deputies to be brief.

Mr. Kenny: Did the Taoiseach get the vote? Mr. Sargent: I realise this question will require more attention from the Minister for Transport. The Taoiseach: I would probably not have got However, in regard to his discussions with the it anyway. It was an interesting discussion when BMW regional assembly, will the Taoiseach one considers the logic of a public servant driving inform the House whether the Government is to the city and being against decentralisation. willing to progress a development whereby a rail The economic and social structure of the prog- line might be built alongside a new road being ramme originally had a ratio of 27:73; that of constructed, for example, between Sligo and employment in human resources development Bundoran, in order to take advantage of the res- was 29:71; the productive sector was 36:64 and for ervation acquisition there? Opportunities such as technical assistance the ratio was 38:62. Under this may arise and could form part of an ongoing the PEACE II programme, all the funds went to plan. Given the congestion in Galway, Sligo and the BMW region. The actual figures for the ratio so on which adversely affects 85% of businesses, at the mid-point were 22:78, which indicates that is it envisaged that will we make progress in this manner? the Border region slipped 5%. The ratio for employment was 29:71, which figure was planned An Ceann Comhairle: As the Deputy correctly and on target. The productive sector ratio was anticipated, the question is more appropriate to 24:76, which represented the largest drop. the line Minister. However, the other ratios were all on target. Sometimes the position is put that all the ratios Mr. Sargent: I am seeking to take advantage fell behind. I accept there are areas in which they of the fact that the line Minister is sitting beside did, but not to the extent suggested. the Taoiseach.

Mr. Crawford: It must have moved to Louth Mr. McCormack: Given that all the major or Strangford. Gaeltacht areas, namely, Mayo, Donegal and Galway, are within the BMW region, is the The Taoiseach: It moved around the areas. Taoiseach aware that the Minister for Com- Last Monday, the additional contract was munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs has signed signed for the Dundalk-Newry road and the con- the order for the U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta election tinuation of the M1 which, I hope, will develop on Friday, which has disadvantaged a large further. All the economic analysis indicates that number of people? business in the Border region is still only 25% to 30% of what it would be between two regions if it An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on had not been for the conflicts of the past. Border this series of questions. Deputies know better than I that business investors have continually stated that the quality of the Mr. McCormack: It arises very seriously within transport network presented them with problems. the Gaeltacht area. However, the opposite is now the case because, as Deputies know, the journey time between An Ceann Comhairle: I suggest the Deputy Dublin and Belfast is much shorter, even keeping submits a question or finds another way of raising well within the law. This will be improved further the issue. after the Ballymascanlon and Dundalk bypasses are complete. The contract for the M1 into Newry Mr. McCormack: The Minister is in the House and he can reply if he likes. The issue arises in was also signed the other day, the completion of the Gaeltacht areas in which, only two days after which will make an enormous difference. In the the order was signed, hundreds of postal votes normal course of investment, this should rep- were disallowed in Galway yesterday despite the resent a major improvement, as was stated to me fact that two working days had not elapsed in a recent meeting with the chamber of com- between the order and the election. merce in Dundalk and with the Newry and Mourne chamber of commerce late last year. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy has made They all state that these developments will lead his point. I asked for a brief question. As I to greater investment and I hope they do. pointed out, 63 questions have been tabled to the I accept Deputy Crawford’s point that Taoiseach. If we move through the questions at Monaghan has for a long time relied on its the rate we are today, it will take ten weeks to go indigenous industries of furniture, mushrooms through them all. and so on and has not received the kind of inward investment that would have made a difference. The Taoiseach: In reply to Deputy Sargent, we However, the difference in prices and travel times are committed to infrastructure in the west, on that road should make an enormous difference whether that involves road or rail, but the pro- and I hope that comes to pass. It now represents jects must be viable. It is one thing to construct some of the country’s best infrastructure. rail lines but they must be viable. Rail is already 1339 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1340

[The Taoiseach.] tegic national infrastructure, especially proposals a huge loss-maker, which one must accept to expedite delivery; and the transport investment because it is a good transport system. I am not programme under the ten year envelope. aware of the example to which the Deputy In general terms, the team and the Cabinet referred but one cannot construct such lines committee to which it reports serve a valuable unless there is at least a reasonable flow, other- role in progressing and resolving issues related to wise they would become very costly. However, infrastructural planning and delivery. To that end where there is a reasonable flow that is a differ- the team continued to make a major contribution ent matter. throughout last year and met on ten separate occasions. I have reported to the House separ- Departmental Bodies. ately on those meetings. 6. Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach the pro- Overall, the team has helped to improve sig- gress made by the cross-departmental team on nificantly the context for the delivery of national infrastructure and public private partnerships; infrastructure, especially in terms of time and and if he will make a statement on the matter. cost. A particularly important feature of the [1457/05] team’s work last year was related to the roll out of the multi-annual financial envelopes for the 7. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if he will various broad categories of infrastructure activity. report on the January 2005 meeting of the cross- The House can be assured that the team will con- departmental team on infrastructure and public tinue to make an important contribution through- private partnerships; and if he will make a state- out this year. ment on the matter. [2455/05] Mr. Kenny: Does the Taoiseach expect that the 8. Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach when the national development programme will be com- cross-departmental team on infrastructure and pleted on time? How far off schedule does he public private partnerships will next meet; and if expect it to be given the remarks made recently he will make a statement on the matter. by the Institution of Engineers of Ireland with [2456/05] regard to the multi-annual funding network 9. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the which was announced? Does the Taoiseach number of occasions during 2004 on which the expect to have it completed within the time limit cross-departmental team on infrastructure and or will it be off schedule by three to five years? public private partnership met; when the commit- The Taoiseach mentioned there is a meeting tee will next meet; if he will report on the work today about housing. I am sure the Taoiseach has of the team to date; and if he will make a state- had his eyes opened, as many other Deputies ment on the matter. [3501/05] have had, by the huge conurbations outside the city in Meath and Kildare. The clumping of huge 10. Caoimhghı´nO´ Caola´in asked the Taoiseach housing estates without infrastructure is a social when the cross-departmental team on housing, crime of enormous consequence. infrastructure and PPPs last met; and its planned meetings for 2005. [3695/05] An Ceann Comhairle: That is a question for 11. Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach the pro- the line Minister. gress made by the cross-departmental group on infrastructure and public private partnership; and Mr. Kenny: This is a question on the cross- if he will make a statement on the matter. departmental team which the Taoiseach will deal [4487/05] with on the housing issue. My question is valid in that sense. Does that committee discuss the con- The Taoiseach: I propose to take Questions cept of housing whereby if 1,000 or 2,000 houses Nos. 6 to 11 together. are to be built in a certain place, there will be a The meeting of the cross-departmental team on concurrent proposal to construct the schools, leis- housing, infrastructure and PPPs scheduled for ure facilities, playgrounds and so forth, so those January was amalgamated with the most recent who pay their deposit in the first instance can meeting on 2 February. The reason is that know in advance the bus routes and public facili- important preparatory work in one of the prin- ties that will be available? I have seen some of ciple agenda items, namely, strategic national these estates in the last few weeks and—— infrastructure, was still ongoing when the January meeting was scheduled to have taken place. It is An Ceann Comhairle: Again, Deputy Kenny, expected that the Government will formally con- these are questions for the line Minister. sider the outputs of that work in the very near future. The other main agenda item was the Mr. Kenny: A Cheann Comhairle, you have national spatial strategy with an emphasis on pro- become very tetchy in the last couple of days. gress to date and plans for the year. A further meeting of the team is being held An Ceann Comhairle: No. today. Agenda items are: housing, particularly in the context of recent reports from the National Mr. Kenny: I am asking a question about a Economic and Social Council and the All-Party cross-departmental team dealing with housing. Is Oireachtas Committee on the Constitution; stra- anything wrong with that? 1341 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1342

An Ceann Comhairle: The details of what is Tallaght and Clondalkin area 30 years ago, when discussed at the cross-departmental that mistake was made. It would be regrettable if committee—— we were still making the same mistake. We had to go back into those areas and provide schools, Mr. Kenny: Did I mention any specific playgrounds and parks 30 years later. Of course, location? I mentioned housing as a concept. that turned the community around. Nowadays, developments are being built in areas where there An Ceann Comhairle: Each Minister is respon- is no problem with open space — if anything, in sible for their line Department in the areas for some cases they are being built on too open a which they have responsibility. The Taoiseach is space — so I cannot understand why they cannot not specifically responsible for these detailed get the school right. questions—— Out of curiosity, I checked a few developments in recent days to find out if it was a case of the Mr. Kenny: I did not suggest he was. I asked Department of Education and Science messing the Taoiseach if the cross-departmental team up. However, I discovered that in many cases the dealing with housing discusses such issues. This is places were opened before the applications were about people and their lives. even put forward. To be frank, it is just bad organisation in planning development. I accept An Ceann Comhairle: The details of what it that councillors work hard. There is a planned discusses is not appropriate under these ques- new development in Navan of approximately tions. The Deputy’s question asked about the 1,200 houses. Last week I looked at a plan shown meeting of the cross-departmental team on infra- to me by the chairman of a community council structure and public private partnerships and and I discussed it will Deputy Cullen. Nobody asked the Taoiseach to make a statement on the could find any road other than the existing one. I matter. was never an engineer and I would not be much good if I ever tried to study for that profession Mr. Kenny: Yes, that is part of it. You, a but if one is building 1,200 houses, it is a basic Cheann Comhairle, no longer need to canvass requirement to provide a road from it to the main because of your privileged position here but if road and not use a road that is already over- you had been in some of the housing estates I crowded. This is basic stuff. have been in during the last couple of weeks, you Colleagues have told me that the answer to this would understand what I am saying. is the regional planning guidelines. In the context An Ceann Comhairle: I would have put down of the national spatial strategy and the gateways, my question to the line Minister. the purpose and logic of why the technical people have argued about ways to do this is to ensure The Taoiseach: Obviously, these issues are dis- that planning is dealt with in a far broader way. cussed in various fora, not just in the committee. It is not an issue of putting 600 or 1,000 houses in The reason for national planning, balanced Mornington or any of the other areas we have regional development and the national spatial visited recently and then, when they are half built, strategy, on which we worked over the last few to consider building a school given that there years, was to deal with the type of issues men- might be children in the houses. If the develop- tioned by the Deputy. The Department of the ment is taking four or five years, it should be Environment, Heritage and Local Government is done in a better way. currently developing terms of reference for a I have also seen areas where that was done study of the needs of gateways. That proposal has well, often because of good public representatives been approved by the cross-departmental team or councillors. These people were often berated and it is anticipated the project will be completed because they wanted to get the development right by the middle of this year. and argued for it. Many local authorities oblige A few things have happened. One is the impact developers to make a contribution. There was a of the national development plan projects in row in the House a few years ago about these overcoming infrastructure barriers. There are contributions. However, it should not be a cost also the strategic infrastructural requirements of that is passed on. If the prices we hear one can the gateway areas. The reason the national spatial get for houses are correct, the cost of the contri- strategy provided that all local authorities must bution should not be added to the price of the have regional planning guidelines was to deal house. We argued about this and urban develop- with the issue raised by the Deputy. They must ment costs in the House. The developer should examine how development is conducted. I have be able to fund a contribution to the schools, seen some of these developments. They provide roads and other facilities out of the huge profits. grand housing but there were no regional plan- Local authorities are seeking this for the last ning guidelines in the past. However, they are three or four years, and so they should. It was now in place and people must consider from the argued in the House that it would just be put onto start of the development where the school, com- the price of houses. However, with the size of munity centre and so forth will be. some of these estates, the developer has six or Deputy Rabbitte is probably far more knowl- seven years work and is making an enormous pro- edgeable than I about what happened in the fit so he has an obligation to pay towards 1343 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions 1344

[The Taoiseach.] probably by applying pressure, without making development costs, probably even more than the much contribution, such as providing some open existing amounts. space. The regional planning guidelines will force I did not notice that in the Institution of Engin- that to change. eers of Ireland report or a suggestion of what we I accept many of the positive points made in should do. I accept many of the points the insti- the report of the Institution of Engineers of tution makes but developers should pay towards Ireland. We have invested hundreds of millions development costs. of euro more than was planned in the national development plan, yet there are areas where we Mr. Rabbitte: I agree with the Taoiseach’s are behind. The institution correctly identifies comments but I am not sure it is happening in some of these areas. Where did the money go? In practice. While we are swapping anecdotes, one many cases, it was eaten up due to under esti- community in Meath told me that the site for the mation, changes to the design of projects, cost school is designated and, after it is rezoned, the inflation and also engineer’s inflation. Many of Department must buy it back at the rezoned these factors have caused resources to be used up value. If that type of thing happens, it is extra- and, therefore, we are behind in some areas. ordinary. I agree with the Taoiseach’s comments In other cases, however, we have gone beyond about the experience of the western towns. the national development plan. For example, the I was in Sallins recently where people told me multi-annual envelopes for 2005 to 2009 will see there is a big problem with the primary school approximately \33.4 billion invested in the capital and that their three and four year old children programme, which must be factored in. However, cannot be enrolled in secondary school. Is it not the institution makes positive suggestions. the case that there is no secondary school avail- A section of the National Treasury Manage- able? Naas CBS cannot take them so parents are ment Agency is considering the issue of public presented with private education in Newbridge as private partnership. The Minister for Finance, the only prospect. As Deputy Kenny said, there Deputy Cowen, has, to his credit, given much is an amazing deficit in facilities in this area of time since the budget to consideration of this developmental explosion of recent years. Is a sig- area. He is considering changes to structures and nificant number of projects contemplated as a spent a whole day with people involved in PPP, result of ironing out the difficulties with public listening to their cases and to what they think is private partnerships? The Committee of Public wrong, to find if there is some other way we can Accounts heard some time ago that such moneys make the system work. as had been made available from the pension With regard to some major projects, I have reserve fund for infrastructure projects had not tried to achieve private sector engagement but it been called on and no projects have been brought is not easy. Some say the process does not work forward despite the manifest requirement. and when one tries to get the private sector to Deputy Kenny dealt with another matter. The organise a major project, one does not get the report from the Institution of Engineers of feeling the sector is clear on the idea. Some pro- Ireland is far more critical than one would divine jects around Dublin city would be ideal if the from the Taoiseach’s response. Did the experts private sector was prepared to take them over, who compiled that report suggest we are not for example, the completion by tunnel of the M50 within a mile of hitting the national development going south. This project would probably cost plan target because we are so far behind today? well over \1 billion if the private sector wanted to take it up, and it would not go wrong if it The Taoiseach: Whatever about past schemes, wanted it for 30 or 40 years. However, the private a process is now in place in regard to the gate- sector tends to pull away from these projects. ways, hubs and regional planning guidelines. The State will never be able to complete all With many developments of the past year or two, of these projects. Therefore, we must find some the developer simply gave the land site as part of imaginative way of involving the pension fund in the development, which is what should happen. this. The Minister, Deputy Cowen, is working on The Deputy is correct in regard to other cases in this at present. older developments where this was not part of The private sector has become involved in the the overall development. In these cases, the State M50 project and some other projects. However, has not got the sites and people will obviously try it should take the really big money. We will not to zone the sites to sell them to the State at a need the pension fund money for 20 to 25 years. higher cost. However, if it was done as part of the My view, given the demographics, is that we will regional planning guidelines at the commence- not need it for far longer. I do not understand ment, the State should not pay anything for these how, on one side, some say we will need it in the sites; it should be part of the overall development. years 2025 to 2030 and, on the other side, some That is happening and there are many good say there will be 1 million extra people at that examples of vigilant public representatives of all time. I do not believe this doomsday scenario political parties co-operating to achieve this. This will happen. is the way it should be but, unfortunately, guide- We should be able put aside more of this lines were not in place previously and developers money. The pension fund managers will invest were able to push these developments through, the resources but it must be a private sector 1345 Request to move Adjournment of 2 March 2005. Daíl under Standing Order 31 1346 driven project. I have yet to see someone coming find the most effective way of completing projects forward with a vehicle that will lead to this. which does not only concern cost. However, having listened to what the people say they need, the Minister, Deputy Cowen, is recon- Mr. Sargent: What of the prison? sidering the matter. The Taoiseach: There is a cost involved in CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: I note the Taoiseach doing it this way. In terms of speed, efficiency, had his Duracells changed this morning. On an volume and capacity, one must give some projects area that was not addressed, has the cross-depart- to the private sector. mental team with responsibility for housing considered the issue of housing in the private rented Mr. Sargent: What of the prison? Is this the sector? Is the Taoiseach aware that the number case for security? of households in receipt of rent supplement now exceeds 40% of the entire private rented sector? Request to move Adjournment of Daíl under This is a statistic learned from a recent Standing Order 31. Parliamentary Question to the Minister for Social An Ceann Comhairle: Before coming to the and Family Affairs. Does the Taoiseach accept Order of Business I propose to deal with a it is clear these people should be accommodated number of notices under Standing Order 31. within the social rented sector as the State is massively subsidising the private rented sector, Mr. Connolly: I seek the adjournment of Daíl and this statistic only underscores it? Will the E´ ireann under Standing Order 31 to discuss the Taoiseach reply to the specifics of my questions? following matter of urgent public and national concern, namely, the necessity to establish a min- Mr. Sargent: We often warn in this House of istry for disability affairs which would represent the danger of moneylenders and loan sharks. Is optimum value for money and maximum the Taoiseach alarmed that some PPPs are much efficiency in the coordination of services to the more expensive than the public sector compon- entire disability sector; have responsibility for the ent? The Kilcock-Kinnegad section, for example, drafting and enforcement of rights-based dis- cost \1.1 million less per kilometre than the ability legislation; and to serve as a focus for pro- private sector section of that project. Is there any viding disabled people with a full range of oppor- measure to end this type of gross profiteering tunities and choices to improve their quality of from the private sector? How will a PPP work, life and be respected and included as equal for example, in regard to building, as proposed members of society. by Government, a prison on the Dublin-Meath border? Will it be responsible for security and Mr. Neville: I seek the adjournment of the Daíl maintenance or just for construction? under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of national importance, namely, the meeting in The Taoiseach: While the committee does not Luxembourg today under the auspices of the deal with Deputy O´ Caolaín’s question, generally, World Health Organisation and the EU to discuss the private rented sector is an important part of measures to deal with the predicted pandemic of housing policy. The changes we have introduced avian flu and the urgent need for the Department in that area have significantly reduced the private of Health and Children to formulate plans to deal sector rented market. It is continuing to decline with such an outbreak. dramatically, even in the heart of Dublin, which is a major change. If many in that sector could Mr. Gogarty: I seek the adjournment of the access affordable or social housing, it is Daíl under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter undoubted they would be happier. However, the of urgent national importance, namely, the implications of yesterday’s High Court award of State is subsidising them in accommodation, in \370,000 to a man who was abused at a Kilkenny many cases where they are happiest and from industrial school including the need to review the where they do not want to move. It is not one awards made by the Residential Institutions size fits all. Redress Board given that the court decision There are many arguments about PPPs which allows for well above the average award from the time does not permit me to go into. However, board and that only 12 of the 2,500 awards so another argument suggests that PPP projects are far made by the board were in the \200,000 to coming in on cost and on or ahead of time — the \300,000 range. Monasterevin bypass was nearly a year ahead and the Kinnegad project is going well. There are Dr. Cowley: I seek the adjournment of the Daíl efficiencies of scale and there will also be under Standing Order 31 to raise a matter of efficiencies in regard to maintenance. While cost national importance, namely, the failure of the is a factor, if one was to wait to undertake pro- Minister for Communications, Marine and jects in the traditional way, there would be Natural Resources to release the industry com- increased delays and difficulties. We are spending missioned quantified risk assessment, QRA, on increased resources in recent years — \1.4 billion the Corrib gas pipe line and why he will not com- on roads and \1.2 billion on rail, and we must mission an independent QRA in the interest of 1347 Order of 2 March 2005. Business 1348

[Dr. Cowley.] Mr. Kenny: I will finish very quickly. Is the the health and safety of the residents who must Government making arrangements to deal with live beside the Mayo gas upstream pipeline. an expected avian flu pandemic?

An Ceann Comhairle: Having considered the An Ceann Comhairle: There are other ways matters raised, they are not in order under Stand- this matter can be raised during the day. ing Order 31. Mr. Rabbitte: The Minister of State, Deputy Callely, will deal with it. Order of Business. The Taoiseach: It is proposed to take No. a11, Mr. Kenny: When it is too late, like the iodine the Finance Bill 2005, financial resolution; No. 3, tablets issued by the former Minister of State, Health (Amendment) Bill 2005, Order for Deputy Jacob. Second Stage and Second Stage; and No. 17, Driver Testing and Standards Authority Bill Mr. Rabbitte: Are we to understand that the 2004, Second Stage (resumed). It is proposed, Minister of State, Deputy Callely, is dealing with notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, the threat of avian flu? that No. a11 shall be decided without debate. Will the Taoiseach say if this morning’s reports Private Members’ business shall be No. 44, about the Travers report being taken by the Mini- motion re investigation into the murder of Robert ster on Friday and being taken to the Cabinet McCartney (resumed) to conclude at 8.30 p.m. next Tuesday are correct? Will it be published after the Cabinet meeting? An Ceann Comhairle: There is one proposal to put to the House. Is the proposal for dealing with The Taoiseach: I am told we will have the No. a11, motion re Finance Bill 2005, financial report in a matter of days but I do not know resolution, agreed to? Agreed. exactly when. We will bring it to the Cabinet as soon as we have it. Mr. Kenny: I intended to raise a matter under the Pharmacy Bill, which is the only way I can Mr. Rabbitte: Will it be published after the raise it. Deputy Neville raised the issue. What Cabinet meeting? arrangements is the Government making in respect of the predicted pandemic of avian flu? The Taoiseach: Regarding aspects of it, I do This has the potential of a nuclear accident in not know. It will be published. terms of deaths arising from it and it appears other countries are already stockpiling Mr. Rabbitte: Is the Taoiseach saying that millions—— whether it will be published depends on what is in it? An Ceann Comhairle: That is not appropriate to the Order of Business. The question may be The Taoiseach: No. We have to examine it. put to the line Minister during Leaders’ There may be legal issues. Questions. Mr. Kenny: What time will the selected league Mr. Kenny: The Ceann Comhairle seems to contest start? have turned his antennae in this direction during the past couple of days. I said I would raise the The Taoiseach: As Deputy Rabbitte knows, the matter under the Pharmacy Bill. matter is related to the Supreme Court judgment and we must consider the legal aspects. We have An Ceann Comhairle: It is not appropriate. no desire but to proceed with the matter. At any rate it is probably out in the public domain. Mr. Kenny: The Pharmacy Bill is noted as No. 60, to consolidate and update pharmacy legis- Mr. Kenny: One can bet one’s life on that. lation. I cannot raise the matter in any other way and I am only following the instructions given to Mr. Sargent: The promised legislation I wish to me by the Ceann Comhairle. raise ties in closely with the Standing Order 31 issue raised by my colleague, Deputy Gogarty. It An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy may raise relates to the register of persons considered the matter on the Adjournment or in a number unsafe to work with children which according to of other ways. the list has no publication date. In view of the fact that there are guidelines already published in Mr. Kenny: I wanted to raise it with the Northern Ireland and the fact that my colleague Taoiseach while he is present. Deputy Boyle was told in January that the cross- departmental working group reporting to the An Ceann Comhairle: It is a matter for the line Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform on Minister. We would be here all day if every the proposal is in effect taking action on the Deputy were allowed to raise any matter in any matter, is there a need for the legislation, since way. Northern Ireland seems to have gone ahead with- 1349 Order of 2 March 2005. Business 1350 out waiting for the legislation? Are we just hold- Mr. Sherlock: Will the Taoiseach say when the ing on for the legislation without doing anything? building control Bill will be brought before the Should we be acting? House to strengthen the enforcement power of local authorities under the Building Control Act An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should con- 1970? fine himself to the legislation. The Taoiseach: Later this year. Mr. Sargent: Is there a need for legislation given this situation? Mr. Timmins: Yesterday, during Question Time, the Minister for Defence, Deputy O’Dea, The Taoiseach: I am told that the Minister has assured me when questioned on the emergency now appointed an implementation group to planning task force that we could deal with all advise on implementation and the necessity for sorts of disasters including nuclear fallout etc. legislation. If legislation is not required he will Last night we had a couple of inches of snow and simply move ahead on the matter. the periphery of Dublin came to a standstill. Can the Taoiseach ensure that Operation Freeflow Mr. Deenihan: When will the Abbotstown can be activated at short notice to deal with sports campus development authority Bill be such situations? published? When will repairs be carried out on the roof of the National Aquatic Centre? It took An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on a year to build and it will take five months to the Order of Business. repair a hole in the roof. The Taoiseach might intervene personally in the matter. Mr. Timmins: It took three hours to travel 20 miles earlier. It is crazy out there. Perhaps the An Ceann Comhairle: The first question is Taoiseach might pass a comment on it. When he appropriate. is out for his morning jog, I am sure he encoun- ters traffic difficulties. The Taoiseach: The Bill will be published during the current session. Ms O’Sullivan: Following yesterday’s court decision to award an individual a much larger Mr. Howlin: In the light of another potentially sum than those being awarded by the Residential calamitous situation surfacing in Letterkenny, Institutions Redress Board to victims of child will the Taoiseach say when the work permits Bill abuse, has the Taoiseach taken advice to amend will be brought before the House? I understand the Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002? from the line Minister that other legislation will take precedence. Does the Taoiseach accept that The Taoiseach: Both the Attorney General and the issue needs to be urgently addressed, and that the Minister for Education and Science will lives are risk if it is not? examine the result of the case but, following a The Taoiseach: It is an urgent matter and is preliminary examination, I do not think there will due for consideration in the current session. be any changes.

Mr. Howlin: I understand another Bill will Mr. Eamon Ryan: The Taoiseach stated last jump ahead of it. The Taoiseach might talk to the year at a meeting in Dublin Castle during the EU line Minister about the matter. Presidency that the issue discussed most often at Cabinet is climate change. I recently asked for a Mr. Neville: I want to ask about promised and debate on this issue at a Whips meeting. Can we secondary legislation on the day when President have the promised debate on climate change? McAleese has a special forum to discuss the rising levels of suicide. I wish to recognise her humane An Ceann Comhairle: Is the debate promised? concern on this matter in that she is assisting the interested organisations to focus on it. The Taoiseach: The Whips can discuss that.

An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy should ask Mr. Eamon Ryan: They have. I am waiting for a question on legislation. an answer.

Mr. Neville: Despite raising a matter which the Mr. Crawford: Given the current debate on Minister of State might describe as “tiresome”, criminality, when will the criminal justice will the Taoiseach say when the Mental Health (international co-operation) Bill, the criminal Act 2001 will be fully implemented and when the justice (protection of confidential information) promised legislation on the reform of the psychi- Bill and the defamation Bill be introduced? atric services will be introduced? The Taoiseach: The heads of the criminal The Taoiseach: The first Bill referred to has justice (protection of confidential information) been passed and implementation of it is a matter Bill have been approved. The Department has for the Minister. received the first preliminary draft and it is under 1351 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1352

[The Taoiseach.] “That section 40 of the Stamp Duties Con- consideration. The legislation should be possible solidation Act 1999 (No. 31 of 1999), which this year. provides for the calculation of ad valorem duty The heads of the criminal justice (international where the consideration for a conveyance on co-operation) Bill were approved late last year sale consists of stock or securities, be amended and the Bill is due in the middle of this year. The in the manner and to the extent specified in the Criminal Justice Bill 2004 is due to resume on Act giving effect to this Resolution.” Second Stage in the House. Question put and agreed to. Mr. Broughan: I support Deputy Neville’s com- mendation of the President for focusing on the serious national problem of suicide, particularly Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: Order for among young people. Given the lengthy delays Second Stage. experienced by relatives awaiting post mortems and so on, when will the coroners Bill be Bill entitled an Act to amend the Health Act brought forward? 1970. Minister of State at the Department of Health An Ceann Comhairle: That was dealt with yes- and Children (Mr. S. Power): I move: “That terday. Deputy Neville raised it. Second Stage be taken now.” Mr. Broughan: I was not present. Did the Question put and agreed to. Taoiseach have an opportunity to visit the accident and emergency departments in the Mater and Beaumount Hospitals, our two local Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: Second Stage. hospitals? Perhaps he could consult the UK Minister of State at the Department of Health Government on ways to expedite the accident and Children (Mr. S. Power): I move: “That the and emergency issue. Bill be read a Second Time.” I am pleased to introduce the Bill, which pro- An Ceann Comhairle: That does not arise on vides for the amendment of the Health Act 1970 the Order of Business. I call the Taoiseach to to address two substantive matters: the provision respond on the coroners Bill. of a legal framework for the charging of patients The Taoiseach: It will be introduced this year. for the maintenance element of inpatient services in publicly funded long-term care residential units and the introduction of doctor visit medical cards. Prohibition of Ticket Touts Bill 2005: First The Government has introduced the legislation Stage. to establish a sound legal basis for the policy of Mr. Deenihan: I move: requiring a contribution towards shelter and maintenance of people with full eligibility in the “That leave be granted to introduce a Bill long-term stay institutions. entitled an Act to render it unlawful for any Succeessive Governments have supported and unauthorised person to sell or offer for sale implemented this policy. The Supreme Court tickets for major sporting, musical or theatrical recently confirmed it is constitutionally sound for events for a price in excess of the officially des- the Oireachtas to legislate for this policy. The ignated price.” issue is finally being put beyond legal doubt after almost 29 years. We are also proposing the intro- An Ceann Comhairle: Is the Bill opposed? duction of a doctor visit medical card as announced at the publication of the 2005 Esti- Minister of State at the Department of the mates. This fulfils a key Government commit- Taoiseach (Mr. Kitt): No. ment to ensure people on low incomes have access to general practitioner services and advice. Question put and agreed to. It is most efficient to address both issues in the same Bill. An Ceann Comhairle: Since this is a Private The decision of the Supreme Court on 16 Members’ Bill, Second Stage must, under Stand- February 2005 in the matter of Article 26 of the ing Orders, be taken in Private Members’ time. Constitution and the Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004 has brought clarity and finality to the Mr. Deenihan: I move: “That the Bill be taken issue of long stay charges. It has also paved the in Private Members’ time.” way for the introduction of this Bill to provide the legal basis for charging for inpatient services Question put and agreed to. in publicly funded long stay institutions. We had a full debate in the House on the Supreme Court decision two weeks ago. The court found the Finance Bill 2005: Financial Resolution. Bill’s provisions for prospective charging of Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht inpatients were not repugnant to the Consti- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I move: tution. There is no constitutional prohibition on 1353 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1354 implementing a charge into the future for public from the Office of the Attorney General, the long stay inpatient services. Department of Health and Children issued a let- The Government accepts fully that the ter on 9 December 2004 to the chief executive Supreme Court found the retrospective pro- officers of the health boards and Eastern visions of that Bill on making lawful the impos- Regional Health Authority asking them to stop ition and payment of such charges in the past to making such charges immediately, pending the be unconstitutional, in so far as this concerns the introduction of amending legislation. It is esti- property rights of citizens. We are concerned with mated that this is costing approximately \2 mill- the implementation of policy going forward. I do ion per week. Accordingly, a statutory framework not believe the House needs to revisit the debate that puts the long-standing policy on a sound and we had two weeks ago on the Supreme Court statutory legal footing and safeguards the income decision. The debate should focus on the Bill’s generated from this source is vital. The provisions provisions and look forward to the clarity and of the Health (Amendment) Bill 2005 will secure benefits they will bring. this source of income. Let us remember that this The principle that it is fair and reasonable that income is applied exclusively towards health ser- most people should make a contribution to the vices. It does not revert to the general Exchequer. cost of their long stay care is a significant and It is part and parcel of health funding and has long standing feature of our system of publicly been so for decades past. funded long-term care. This has been restated On 18 November 2004, in conjunction with the and reinforced in the health strategy, Quality and publication of the 2005 Estimates, the Ta´naiste Fairness — A Health System for You. It is recog- announced the Government’s intention to intro- nised that quality care is expensive and the bulk duce a doctor-visit medical card for 200,000 of the cost of providing a high standard of quality people. This was the most efficient way to help care should be borne by the Exchequer. It is esti- the most people to access primary care. It is in mated the charges imposed on those in public line with the commitment contained in the health nursing homes represent approximately 10% of strategy to ensure that the allocation of medical the overall cost of care. It, therefore, represents cards is on the basis of prioritising groups most in a modest contribution towards the total cost of need. This is one of a package of developments treatment and maintenance. that we have announced regarding the medical The services provided to people in long stay card scheme. The others involve adjustments to care are a valuable part of the health services. It the income guidelines in respect of standard is essential that these services should be protected medical cards which will enable 30,000 additional and maintained. The charges in question are people to obtain such a medical card in the cur- embraced by the concept of a co-payment, which rent year. The new income guidelines have been is common throughout the health service. This is in force since January 2005. Those guidelines consistent with the overall principle that where reflect the 7.5% increase on the 2004 figures, as individuals can contribute a modest amount to announced in November 2004, and include sub- the cost of their care, it is reasonable that they do stantial increases in respect of dependent so. Other examples include the inpatient over- children. night hospital levy. In the latter case, the charge Parents of children with illnesses that persist is \55 per night subject to a maximum of \550 from year to year can be assured that they will in any 12 consecutive months. Those availing of not have to reapply for a medical card each year, private or semi-private accommodation in public thus alleviating the anxiety of wondering if their hospitals are also charged. medical card will continue. It is intended that this I refer to future services for older people arrangement should apply to a small number of specifically. It has been the policy of successive children with very serious illnesses, where a Governments to endeavour to help older people review would normally result in automatic maintain themselves in the community while at renewal of the medical card. As I stated, the the same time providing for residential care Government is providing extra resources for which is not prohibitively expensive. The policy additional medical cards in a way which benefits of the Government on the development and as many people on lower incomes as possible. delivery of services for older people is to maintain Concern has been expressed by several people them in dignity and independence at home for as and groups, including general practitioners, that long as possible in accordance with their wishes, some parents have been deterred from attending as expressed in many research studies. People are their family doctor, or from bringing their chil- much happier in their own homes and they dren to the doctor, by the cost involved. People recover more quickly from illness in their own should not be discouraged from visiting their environment and we will continue to allow that family doctor, and especially from bringing their to happen in so far as that is possible. children to the doctor, because of cost. For this The roles of all community care services are, reason, the Government has decided to introduce therefore, vital to the implementation of this a new medical card which will enable 200,000 policy. The charges provided for in the legislation people on low incomes to visit their GP free of will assist in providing funds to help in the imple- charge. This measure will remove for individuals mentation of these overall policy objectives in the and families any concern about the cost of bring- future. On foot of advice sought by the Ta´naiste ing their child to a doctor or attending them- 1355 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1356

[Mr. S. Power.] The work of those sub-projects was accepted selves. People will be able to get the advice and by the board of the Health Boards Executive. It reassurance that they need from their GP and, if is now being progressed, under the auspices of necessary, be referred to other health services in the Health Service Executive, by a national steer- either the community or the acute sector as ing group set up to oversee implementation of the necessary. outputs of the Health Boards Executive process. It is important to remember that not all con- The work of the project will modernise the oper- cerns or medical conditions with which people ation of the medical card and related schemes to attend their doctor necessitate the prescription of make them more customer-friendly, administra- medication, so in many cases no cost need arise tively streamlined, fair, accountable and IT- in that regard. For those who require prescription enabled. medication, under the drugs payment scheme no I now propose to outline the scope and princi- one need pay in excess of \85 in prescription drug pal provisions of the Bill. For the purposes of costs in a calendar month. clarity I will deal first with long-stay charges and The Health Service Executive is preparing for then with doctor-visit medical cards. The Bill is the introduction of the doctor-visit medical cards designed to eliminate the anomalies that have and is drawing up appropriate operational guide- arisen under the current legislation for raising lines to enable applications to be assessed on a charges for long-term care in publicly funded standardised basis across the country. Once that long-term care institutions. In addition, the Bill legislation has been enacted, the HSE will be able and regulations will promote consistency in the to begin promoting the scheme and inviting for- application of charges, with greater clarity for mal applications with a view to the first doctor- those receiving services and the public generally, visit medical cards being issued during April. as well as promoting administrative efficiency and I am pleased that the Irish Medical Organis- transparency throughout the system. ation has welcomed the initiative and I look for- Section 4 of the Bill provides for an amend- ward to its co-operation in the introduction of ment to section 53 of the Health Act 1970 which these new medical cards in the interests of the deals with the legal basis for the imposition of families and individuals concerned. I understand charges as follows. It replaces the existing that the Health Service Executive has written to enabling provision in subsection (2), which pro- the IMO, inviting it to discuss the administrative vides the Minister with discretionary power to and operational arrangements regarding the make regulations by a provision, something that implementation of the doctor-visit card. The requires the Minister to make regulations to additional funding of \60 million provided in the impose charges regarding all persons, that is, current year should allow up to 200,000 doctor- those with full and limited eligibility. As matters visit medical cards to be issued. The Health Ser- stand, section 53 of the Health Act 1970 provides vice Executive intends initially to set the income power to make regulations to impose charges on threshold for the doctor-visit cards at 25% higher those who have limited eligibility only. It inserts than applies for the standard medical card. That a new subsection (3) which specifies categories threshold may be reviewed in light of experience of person exempted from charges imposed under to ensure that the desired numbers of cards are subsection (2). Such categories include all persons being issued to those intended to benefit under under 18, those detained involuntarily under the the initiative. Mental Health Acts, those in receipt of medically The introduction of the new doctor-visit cards acute care in hospitals and those pursuant to should also be seen in the context of the broader section 2 of the Health (Amendment) Act 1996 modernisation agenda under way for the medical who, in the opinion of the Health Service Execu- card schemes. A medical card review project was tive, have contracted hepatitis C directly or set up under the former Health Boards Executive indirectly from the use of human immunoglobulin in April 2002 to assist the health boards in the anti-D or the receipt within the State of another promotion of good administrative practice blood product or a blood transfusion. regarding the management of the medical card We intend to insert a new subsection (4), which scheme and the achievement of high standards empowers the Health Service Executive to for their customers. Nine sub-projects were estab- reduce or waive a charge on financial hardship lished undertaking the following: the manage- grounds, and a new subsection (5) to make it ment and control of the GMS register; adminis- clear that any current regulations in force under trative processes and standards; modernisation section 53 remain in force. The regulations in and development of the appeals system; modern- question are those which impose a hospital levy isation and simplification of application and of \55 a day, subject to a maximum payment in review forms; the development of customer satis- any 12 months of \550. Those charges will con- faction measurements; examination of IT system tinue not to apply to people with full eligibility — integration options with health boards and the medical card-holders, including all over-70s — GMS payments board; researching and clarifying and a series of other exemptions, such as women guidelines in interpretation of legislation; in respect of motherhood. developing a training strategy; and developing We are also inserting a new subsection (6) to training in the principles of good decision- provide that the charges shall apply for inpatient making. services only after a period of 30 days or periods 1357 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1358 aggregating 30 days within the previous 12 Section 5 replaces the existing section 58 of the months. The new subsection (6) also limits the Health Act 1970, which deals with the making weekly charge to an amount that does not exceed available of general practitioner services without 80% of the maximum of the weekly rate of old charge, with a new provision. The new subsection age non-contributory pension. We will insert a (1) will require the Health Service Executive to new subsection (7) to clarify that the period of 30 make available general practitioner services with- days referred to in subsection (6) begins to run out charge not only to persons with full eligibility immediately the person concerned is provided but also to persons with limited eligibility for with inpatient services. We also intend to insert a whom, in the opinion of the executive, it would new subsection (8) to provide that the charge be unduly burdensome to arrange these services shall be in respect of the maintenance aspect of for themselves and their dependants. This pro- inpatient services. vides the legal basis for the granting of medical I would now like to outline for the House the cards, the scope of which is confined to patients’ Bill’s provisions regarding doctor-visit medical attendance at a general practitioner. cards. Section 1 amends section 45 of the Health Subsection (2) of the new section 58 specifies Act 1970 in two respects. In both cases the the same general requirement regarding the mak- amendment is to ensure an alignment of the legal ing of decisions by the Health Service Executive principles governing the award of the standard in respect of doctor-visit medical cards as is being medical card and those contained in the provision inserted regarding decisions on eligibility, that is, to be included in section 58 of the Act in respect they must be made not just by reference to a per- of the doctor-visit card. son’s means but also to what constitutes reason- The amendment to be inserted by section 1(a) able expenditure on the person’s behalf. makes it explicit that the judgment as to whether Subsection (3) maintains the existing require- a person meets the criterion of “undue hardship” ment that there be a choice of doctor for persons specified in section 45(1)(a) of the Health Act obtaining general practitioner services under 1970 is made by the Health Service Executive. section 58 and ensures that this applies to holders The amendment to be made by section 1(b) of doctor-visit medical cards as well as holders of replaces the existing section 45(2) of the Health the standard medical card. Act 1970 with a wording which makes it clear that As the House will see, in respect of charges for decisions on eligibility by the Health Service long-stay care this legislation will bring clarity to Executive must be made not just by reference to an area which, it is now clear, has not been a person’s means but also to what constitutes operating on a sound basis for nearly 30 years. reasonable expenditure on the person’s behalf. This is a genuine move to provide that charges This is in line with existing practice in the Health for long-term care that are imposed have a sound Service Executive whereby costs associated with legal basis. The legislation will also ensure that such matters as a person’s employment, reason- the income flow from charges imposed to date is able housing provision and the care needs of chil- secured and that it will continue to support the dren or dependants, as well as nutrition and provision of quality services to those in long-term clothing needs, are taken into account in care. It has been accepted that these charges, as determining whether a person faces undue hard- contributions to the cost of care, are fair and ship in meeting the costs of GP services. reasonable. By amending the law in this regard we are With regard to new medical cards, Government making it a legal requirement that a person’s policy is, as stated in the programme for Govern- reasonable expenditure needs are taken into ment, to extend eligibility for medical cards for account in the application of section 45(1)(a)of people most in need rather than to achieve cover- the Health Act 1970. In both cases these pro- age of a certain percentage of the population or visions reflect what is already the practice of the to issue a specific number of medical cards. HSE regarding the assessment of individuals for The introduction of doctor-visit medical cards medical cards. These amendments, therefore, will will enable up to 200,000 additional people from not affect the processes and practices already in lower income households to go to their doctor place as regards the award of the standard medi- free of charge. This will help to overcome barriers cal card. to accessing GP services for many individuals and Section 2 amends section 47 of the Health Act families who are above the standard medical card 1970 by adding a reference to section 58 with the income guidelines. I commend the Bill to the existing reference to sections 45 and 46. This is to House. ensure that the relevant appeals provisions extend to the scheme for doctor-visit medical Dr. Twomey: I welcome the Minister of State cards. to the House to speak on the Bill. We would have Section 3 amends section 47A of the Health preferred to see the Ta´naiste here but it is good Act 1970 to include the doctor-visit medical card to see a Fianna Fa´il Minister in the House talking scheme in respect of the Minister’s power to issue about the health services because the Minister’s guidelines to assist in decisions regardless of colleague who held his position before the reshuf- whether a person is ordinarily resident in the fle has been as silent as a Trappist monk on this State. Guidelines issued to the health boards in issue. He has still not made a statement — he was this regard in 1992 and remain in force. a great man for issuing statements — on his role 1359 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1360

[Dr. Twomey.] I do not want the Minister to implement a in this issue. That is disappointing considering policy which will force patients into private nurs- that Fianna Faíl is the largest party in this House ing homes, not because the care in private nursing and should show more concern not only for the homes is substandard, although that issue has health services in general but also two issues we been raised a few times in this House regarding are talking about, namely, legalising nursing certain institutions, but in terms of the cost to home charges and doctor only medical cards. patients. That is something of which the Minister However, a huge number of problems remain has not taken much notice. These nursing home outstanding about which the Minister of State, charges have now been made legal but the Mini- the Tańaiste, Deputy Harney, or any member of ster should examine the overall level of cost to Government do not appear to show much con- patients. cern. Those problems are just as important to That is an issue we have raised in the House people as the two issues we are debating today. since the legislation was passed before Christmas. Of concern to me and some of the people I It was raised at Question Time and again two have been talking to is the reduction in the weeks ago. Subvention payments, which patients number of public only nursing home type beds in are entitled to if they have to go into private nurs- the health care system. Some people are of the ing homes, average \150 per week. There has view that what the Minister is trying to do in this been no increase in that payment since 2001. For legislation is force people into using private nurs- all the fine words we have heard in the House, ing homes, not because of eligibility criteria but a basic entitlement for elderly patients has not because there are no public nursing home beds improved since 2001. Where does that leave in certain areas, and the numbers available are patients if they need to obtain additional funding constantly decreasing. to enable them to enter nursing homes? That was brought home to me in my constitu- As the Minister of State is aware, one will not ency where a new hospital to replace what was come across too many private nursing home beds basically a workhouse, St. John’s Hospital, Ennis- that cost \150 per week. The people to whom I corthy, is proceeding at an extremely slow pace. refer must seek enhanced subvention payments. Phase one, currently being built, will not replace Such payments are described by some as being at the current full complement of the hospital. St. the discretion of the CEOs of the respective John’s is one of the few hospitals remaining in the health boards. Patients are beginning to feel, country which is basically a former workhouse, a however, that they are at the mercy of health throw-back from two centuries ago. It is used now board officials rather than their payments being to look after the elderly in County Wexford. at the discretion of those individuals. This is as a Yesterday, I spent most of the day in County result of the difficulties they encounter in Kerry where two issues were brought to my atten- obtaining enhanced payments that are realistic in tion. A promise was made to the people of nature. I will provide an example of this later. Kenmare that \2 million would be provided to The vast majority of patients in private nursing put an extension on to the district hospital in the homes are paying in excess of \500 per week to town. That money has not been provided and retain their places there. That is a huge burden there is no commitment to make it available. The on the individuals involved and on their families. people have not got a straight answer from any- We discussed this issue on Question Time two body regarding that money. weeks ago. I referred to a patient in County I visited Dingle also where a local landowner Wexford with whom I am familiar who sold her made a very generous gesture in giving approxi- house a number of years ago and used the pro- mately five acres of land to the health board on ceeds to fund her stay in a nursing home. Her which it could build a new district hospital for the money was beginning to run out when she raised people of that peninsula. Again, no commitment the issue with me last November. I tried to make was forthcoming and there has been no indication contact with the local health board and with of when the funding will be made available to officials throughout the region on her behalf. The build a hospital. best response we received was the woman in The district hospital in Dingle is also a former question would receive an enhanced payment of workhouse. One can go up to the third floor of \80 per week. This was despite the fact that she that hospital — thank God it is no longer used paid approximately \600 per week for her nursing for patients — and see the original lay-out of the home place. When I raised the matter on Ques- workhouse as it was in 1840. One can see where tion Time, the health board miraculously arrived the straw would be brushed out of the wards at a solution last week and the woman will be when the bedding was changed once every six given a bed in a public nursing home. weeks when it was used as a working house. Now, What happened in the case to which I refer is over 150 years later, we are talking about disgraceful for a number of reasons. I would hate imposing nursing home charges on people who to think that the woman in question’s continued are being treated almost like the way animals long-term nursing home care had anything to do were treated. It is disgraceful that we are talking with political intervention. One of the major about imposing nursing home charges when we problems with our health service is that too many should examine how we can look after the elderly of the services it offers are at the discretion of in our society. people who should not possess that type of power 1361 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1362 in the first instance. The position as regards legislation promised since 2002, which must to be people’s entitlements should be much clearer. I delivered. The Minister of State referred to a refer here not only to medical cards but to long- nine-point plan and the fact that a number of sub- term care in institutions. Some of the provisions groups are considering this matter at present. in the legislation will exacerbate the problems How long will those sub-groups continue to meet that exist or will, at least, return us to the bad before we see real action in terms of people’s old days when politicians had more to say about entitlements? people’s health care than did their doctors. It is sad that the Tańaiste is not present Concerns about the care of patients with because I would like to ask her where she stands dementia and Alzheimer’s disease have been in terms of a policy to fund the care of the elderly raised on numerous occasions. The Government in the future. There is major uncertainty and is implementing a policy relating to the care of insecurity in respect of this matter at present. We those with dementia. This was supposed to be put have broached this subject on a number of in place within seven years, commencing in 2002. occasions in the Daíl in recent months but, again, I have not seen any major progress being made no clear answers have been offered in respect of in respect of that policy, despite the fact that con- it. The Minister of State made an important point cerns about the two issues to which I refer are on a recent Question Time when he stated that if becoming more widespread. There is a major cost a person’s house is worth in excess of \75,000, involved for families that try to pay for services this would be taken into consideration as means on a private basis. Dementia and Alzheimer’s when he or she is seeking subvention payments patients are categorised as high dependency and in respect of private nursing home care. He stated require additional nursing care. This means, earlier that he does not understand why a person therefore, that there is an extra cost involved. who owns a house worth more than \1 million The Government is making extremely slow should receive support from the State. Where progress in respect of this matter. Most of the does the Minister of State stand as regards the patients have seen nothing in terms of points grey area in terms of houses worth between four, five and six of the Tańaiste’s magic ten- \75,000 and \1 million? At what point does the point plan to resolve the accident and emergency Government believe someone’s private house crisis. A great deal was made about the provision should be considered as part of his or her means? of 100 long-term residential beds, step-down The Tańaiste got into a hell of an amount of facilities and respite facilities. Most of the hot water when, at a conference in 2003, she patients to whom we are referring will see little benefit from the provisions in the plan. The stated that a person’s private home should be Government needs to wake up to reality and considered as means when he or she is seeking a deliver a much better service to elderly patients. nursing home subvention. The Government has All it is doing in this legislation is legalising a completely fudged this issue since 2002. Another cock-up it made three to four years ago. The of its objectives in the health strategy was that, Government knew much more about this matter by the end of 2002, it would publish a policy on than has emerged to date and I am anxious to funding of the care of the elderly into the future. I see what the Travers’ report will have to say in understand that a number of submissions on that that regard. matter were made to the Department of Health The Minister of State referred earlier to the and Children and that a policy was drawn up but health strategy, which was the bible for Fianna that, for some reason, the Government has not Faíl during the most recent general election. seen fit to publish it. Even though the position is National Goal No. 2 of the strategy states “New being regularised and we are making it legal to legislation to provide for clear statutory pro- take money from elderly patients in nursing visions on entitlement will be introduced.” The homes, the Government has done nothing to target date for this was 2002. No action has been inform those who are 55 years or older who may taken on this goal in the past three years. It is wish to avail of these services in the future exactly easy to see why that is the case. When someone what will be their entitlements. decided to examine the legislation, did they It is the responsibility of Government to make recognise that there was a problem vis-a`-vis nurs- decisions and I am surprised this Administration ing home charges and a huge number of other is sitting on the issue and making no progress on issues on which the Government has not it. I am of the opinion that a large number of delivered? members of the Cabinet — both Fianna Faíl and While what is happening in terms of the pro- Progressive Democrats Ministers — want to take vision of health services might be seen as the con- family homes from elderly people to pay for their tinuation of a form of political patronage into the long-term care but that for some reason they are 21st century, in some respects it might also be hedging their bets and refusing to make a seen as evidence of the Government’s incompet- decision on the matter. That failure to make a ence. Perhaps the Government behaves as it does decision is probably holding back a number of because it is afraid to make any difficult decisions other initiatives and this should be made clear to for fear that this will cost it votes. Services are the people. Funding for care of the elderly into being denied to patients and there is, therefore, the future will become a massive issue within the clear guidelines and legislation. I refer here to the next decade. It is time for action and not hedging 1363 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1364

[Dr. Twomey.] test than financial hardship. Going back to the one’s bets. The Government must come clean on health strategy, the Minister promised to reduce this matter in the near future. the ambiguity over entitlement to services. This I wish now to deal with the issue of doctor- term, “unduly burdensome”, may be interpreted only medical cards. I am disappointed with the in a number of different ways by health board Government’s handling of this issue. I promoted officials in different regions. That means the the granting of such cards before the Tańaiste problems we had with the old health boards, announced their creation in the Estimates. I where services were different throughout the stated that we should immediately introduce a country, will continue. Some people in a given system involving such medical cards because I area were able to get enhanced subventions of up have seen the difficulties that arise in general to \500 a week while in other places they could practice. A number of patients do not receive the only get up to \300. It is a distortion of what services to which they are entitled because of the people throughout the country may get. There is cost involved in delivering them. Some mothers no level playing field when terms such as that are will not bring their children to see a doctor introduced. More problems are being introduced because of that cost. The solution to it was that with this legislation than are being dealt with. people could get a professional opinion that It is vital that entitlement to any public service would help to relieve the anxiety as to whether is clear-cut. That is where the legislation from they were genuinely sick or it was just a viral ill- 2002 is coming from. We must get rid of any sem- ness that did not require further treatment. We blance of grace and favour from the public service are now approaching the month of March and not system, whether it is health care or public auth- one doctor-only medical card has been issued. ority housing. Grace and favour means that Not only that, 10,000 standard medical cards have people are more dependent on the politician or been withdrawn since the announcement was public officials than on the laws of the land and made in the Estimates that 30,000 more were what they are legally entitled to. This legislation promised. That is not a proper reflection on the makes no great improvement on that. I detect a Minister’s commitment to the health services and discretionary element creeping in which is more especially to the people concerned. or less going back to putting people at the mercy The Minister of State pointed out in his speech of officials. that the Department was going to deliver medical It might be worthwhile to offer a short history cards to patients on grounds of need rather than lesson on this issue. The Tańaiste likes to go back on the basis of percentage of the population. That to 1970 when she talks about the issue of nursing is the Fine Gael position, as the Minister of State home charges. Prior to 1970, the dispensary knows. We feel it they should be extended to system was in operation where a doctor was hired 40% of the population. It is going to be done on in a local parish and patients considered too poor the basis of what people should receive. to pay were allowed to go to the dispensary medi- However, nothing has been delivered and instead cal practitioner. Patients got access to the dis- medical cards have been taken away since the pensary doctor by getting either a green or a red announcement was made. It should never have ticket from the local politician. The green ticket been introduced as the permanent solution to this entitled them to go to the doctor in the surgery problem, merely as a temporary solution. whereas the red ticket entitled them to house The Minister has now introduced a third tier to calls. The reason the system was got rid of was the health care services. This will work out badly that it was wide open to abuse and political cronin the long term for the patients involved. My yism, where people who were connected got the concern is how the medical card scheme is admin- red ticket for house calls but those who were not istered in tandem with the provision of health only got the green and were told to go the sur- care to people who are dependent on the State. gery. So much of what is now being done goes For instance, full eligibility is based on financial back to that old system of basic abuse. I wish the hardship but allows a certain discretion on medi- Minister, in going to the trouble of doing all this, cal grounds by a health board chief executive had cleared up that system to a greater degree. officer. A percentage of medical cards are sup- Some of the points scoring against the Oppo- posed to be issued on a discretionary basis by the sition indicated in the Minister of State’s speech CEO based on the medical needs of patients suggests that children with illnesses will not have rather than financial criteria. I welcome those to renew their medical cards. I have recently initiatives and support them, but they still have encountered a constituent with an adult family the potential for abuse. However, there has not member who has intellectual disabilities and is been much abuse of this kind within general prac- entitled to a medical card. That medical card used tice, although doctors know that some people to last for about two years at a time and the with medical cards are not entitled to them. It family is now getting renewal forms every six may be that such people did not fill in the forms months for it, even though the person concerned honestly, but one cannot be 100% certain is an adult with intellectual disabilities and there whether such cards are issued on the basis of who will be no change in personal circumstances in the they know rather than what they need. next six or 12 months or even two years. Doctors However, the doctor-only medical card uses see this system creeping into general practice as the term “unduly burdensome”, which is a lesser well where cards are being given for shorter 1365 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1366 periods. Perhaps the health boards hope that in in her attempt to spread the blame. She also some cases patients will not renew their cards, referred to senior counsel opinion provided by will not have the ability to do so or will be too Ronan Keane in 1978, but there is no published intimidated. record as to what that opinion states. She has an Such issues regarding primary and elderly care obligation to publish that opinion so that we can are constantly being raised in this House. The see what precisely is the basis of the argument Minister of State’s speech appears to indicate that used in her damage limitation exercise. If there much is being done in this regard but in fact it is are matters arising from that opinion which are very little. in the public interest, I strongly urge her to pub- This legislation seems to have been thoroughly lish it now. vetted from a legal viewpoint so that a referral to She also needs to tell the House when and why the Supreme Court will not be warranted and we exactly she changed her view on the nature of will not be debating it again in the House in two the problem. In her speech of 16 February 2005, months’ time. Perhaps the reason the Minister of she stated: State is present is because the Tańaiste does not want to have to face into this again. Section 1(b) In my statement to the House last December of the Bill, which amends section 45 of the Health I stated that the charges had been levied in Act 1970, states in respect of a spouse: “including good faith. The Taoiseach made similar state- the means of the spouse, if any, of that person, in ments, both of us on advice and on the basis of addition to the person’s own means”. Perhaps the the information available to us at that time. Minister of State should ask a constitutional law- The Supreme Court decision today does not yer to have a look at that because it might be make a judgement whether the charges were considered to be an unconstitutional attack on made in good faith or bad faith, but in the light marriage. Perhaps the Minister of State could of the Supreme Court judgement and in the clarify this in case he has to return to the House light of information that came to light in pre- in two months and start all over again with a third paring for the hearings at the court, I would not version of this Bill. now characterise the levying of these charges in the way I did in December. For example, legal Ms McManus: I welcome the Minister of State. advice was provided in 1978 by then Senior I am astonished that he and not the Tańaiste is Counsel Keane and McCann that the basis of taking the Bill. I do not see this as a matter of charges was not sound. sorrow, as Deputy Twomey does. Rather, it This statement has very serious implications. If a engenders in me a certain suspicion. The Minister public official or office holder purports to exer- developed a reputation over the years for should- cise those powers, having received legal advice ering responsibility and telling it as it is, yet it is noteworthy that she is absent. At a time when a that such an exercise would be contrary to the Bill is being introduced in the House relating to law, he or she leaves himself or herself personally two issues central to Government policy, it is open to accusation of malfeasance in public remarkable that the Cabinet Minister responsible office. One can only presume that the Minister is absent. for Health and Children had chosen her words This Bill deals with two unrelated matters. It carefully, so her words open up the scenario that provides for charges to be levied for nursing cast doubt on the competence, integrity and liab- home care in line with the Supreme Court ility in the civil courts of public officials and judgment on the Bill recently struck down. It also public office holders. provides for the new general practitioner-only It is important that the Minister clarify the time medical cards. While they are unrelated, the two she changed her view and the information that issues are linked. In 2001, when the Government led her to arrive at such a potentially damning drew up legislation to extend medical cards to the conclusion. We do not need to wait for publi- over-70s, the anomaly regarding charges being cation of the Travers report since she made these levied against those in public nursing homes came statements in the House and should be able to into sharp focus. This was the moment when the reveal the basis for them in this House. I hope fudge that had prevailed should have been faced that she does this by the end of Second Stage. up to. That point was made by the Supreme Despite her commitment to publish the Travers Court and begs the question why the Govern- report swiftly and her indications that the report ment parties, Fianna Faíl and the Progressive would be on her desk yesterday, we now know Democrats, did not deal properly with issue then. there is a delay in bringing it to Cabinet. The It was the Government’s decision to change the Taoiseach’s reply this morning did not engender law on medical cards, which has proven to be confidence that this report would quickly be in extremely wasteful and costly for taxpayers. It the public arena. Will we have to wait until after was a decision made for opportunistic electoral the by-elections before the public can have the purposes. full information to which it is entitled? It certainly Now that she is presiding over this fiasco, the seems that the process is being delayed unduly, Minister is desperately trying to wrap the mantle which is not acceptable to anyone from the Oppo- of 11 Governments around her for protection. sition and does nothing to enhance the Minister’s She referred back to the McInerney case in 1976 already bruised reputation. 1367 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1368

[Ms McManus.] This position paper was drawn up at the end of We know that the issue of charges and their January 2004, as was a letter to the Office of legality were clarified with the introduction of the the Attorney General requesting legal advice over-70s medical card scheme. In 2002, the South that would have been signed by the Secretary Eastern Health Board sent an 80 page legal General. Unfortunately, this letter was not sent opinion to the Department relating to long stay at that time. care and the legality or otherwise of the charges. Was any Minister involved in any way with this We know it was also circulated to other health special group? Was there involvement in any way boards, but we do not know what was in that legal by the senior Minister in respect of the letter to opinion. I have sought that the legal opinion the Attorney General not being sent? We are received by the SEHB be published, but again the having a debate on these issues and asking legit- Minister has refused to do so. It appears that she imate questions, yet we do not have the essential prefers to drip feed selected items of information information that this House needs to ensure as it suits her, to put some gloss on her own proper scrutiny of the Government record. The deplorable record of trying to legalise retrospec- Travers report is delayed and that fact can be tively unlawful charges against vulnerable people. used as a handy shield for the current Minister Again I ask her to publish this legal opinion and, for Health and Children, but there is nothing to with the Keane opinion, to open it to public stop her from fully answering the questions posed scrutiny. today that need to be answered. It might redeem She has published the minutes of a very high her in the eyes of some, at a time when she level management advisory committee and CEO needs it. meeting which was attended by three Ministers, In the most recent opinion poll, one third of Deputies Martin, Tim O’Malley and Callely, as the population now thinks that the health service well as senior departmental figures and health has deteriorated under her watch. This is a board CEOs. It is interesting that the Minister remarkable come-down for a Minister who prom- who was not at that meeting is here today for this ised so much on taking office. She stated: “The debate. The issue of long stay charges was the one thing I want for the country I love is to have third item on the agenda and a clear decision was a health service that is accessible to every citizen made to refer this matter to the Attorney General regardless of their wealth.” She went on to speak to have an assessment of the need for a stand- about a world-class health service. We now find alone Bill. The then Minister for Health and Chil- that six months later, one third of the population dren, Deputy Martin, stated that he was not at is convinced that during her term of office, the present for that particular part of the meeting, yet health service has deteriorated. it is simply incredible that he did not read the All we have seen from the Minister has been minutes of that meeting nor understand the the administrative change in the establishment of importance of the matters involved. the Health Service Executive. In a tremendous It beggars belief that the then Minister for rush before Christmas and following Health and Children, Deputy Martin, can main- 1 o’clock a disgracefully guillotined debate it tain such a position. He has serious questions to was established on 1 January. Now answer and he should come into the House to that it is in existence, I can compare it only to a answer questions on his entire role in this fiasco. headless chicken running to stand still. It is with- He cannot wash his hands in the manner of Pon- out direction, leadership or a chief executive tius Pilate, no matter how hard he tries to do so. officer. As we saw in recent days, the body the The Minister of State with responsibility for older Minister vaunted as the great hope to manage the people was in attendance all the way through the health service cannot even organise and manage meeting, as was the Minister of State with a phone helpline. Hundreds of people could not responsibility for mental health. What have they get past a voicemail message to obtain the infor- to say for themselves? How do they explain their mation they needed on the hospital charges negligence on an issue that was the subject of a debacle. I recall my constituency colleague, central discussion at a meeting at the highest level Deputy Roche, making great mileage out of the of their Department? Deputy O’Donnell ending of the voicemail culture in the public ser- defended the Minister in this House, claiming vice. I wonder what his criticism would be of his that Ministers were being kept in the dark and Cabinet colleague’s failure to ensure the success- that this was the problem. That may be part of ful operation of a helpline. the problem, but it is very clear from this meeting It is important that we receive answers on the that Ministers were not kept in the dark and that Travers report. The Minister for Health and Chil- the issue was discussed in their presence. dren, Harney commissioned the report was com- During her speech on the original Health missioned and undertook that it would be com- (Amendment) Bill 2004, which has since been pleted quickly and published. This morning, my struck down, the current Minister for Health and party Leader asked the Taoiseach to indicate Children stated: when the report would be published, but the lat- Arising from that meeting a small group was ter refused to answer the question. He evaded it convened within the Department to prepare a and failed to indicate a timeframe, saying it was position paper on the legal issues surrounding already in the public arena, which it is not. It charges for long stays in public institutions. should be. It is important to ensure that publi- 1369 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1370 cation of the report does not depend on what is onus was placed on individuals to make their in it, but on the public’s right to know. While the cases to the Department instead of on the Minister herself has described the fiasco as the Department as the body that made the mistake. result of systemic maladministration, she has not If the system of compensation is difficult to explained in detail precisely what she means. She understand and places the onus on people to is noted for shooting her mouth off on occasion prove their cases, it will be unfair. Enough as we saw in the impact such behaviour had in unfairness has been levelled against vulnerable the context of a tribunal issue. When a Minister people like those in long-term care. uses such language, she has a duty to explain pre- We are finally seeing legislation on the general cisely what she means and should not leave her practitioner only, yellow-pack medical cards. It is words to hang in the air and cloud an issue in a important to place the proposal in the context of malign way. the difference between the Government’s prom- Somebody must clarify what people qualified ise and reality. The Government promised for public nursing home care but did not receive 200,000 new medical cards, not 200,000 yellow- it, as indicated by the ombudsman. Perhaps the pack cards. The original promise implied access Minister of State, Deputy Sea´n Power, has the to a great many services including drugs provision answer. The people in question entered private as per the entitlements under the security of nursing homes and were forced to pay for the medical card cover. It is important to note that care they received. We must hear a Government since the Minister announced in November or view on whether they have rights, including the December that she would provide 30,000 new right to compensation. medical cards, between 10,000 and 11,000 people As Deputy Twomey pointed out, there are sig- have lost their cover. It is indicative of the differ- nificant issues to address, which have nothing to ence between the Ministers’ promises and reality do with charges and everything to do with long- as experienced by patients who find it difficult to stay care. There is a shortage of public nursing pay their bills. home beds. Quite apart from future needs, we Opposition Members often complain that they lack the capacity to deal with today’s demands. do not have the resources required to make their The Government promised to fast-track the cases. I am delighted we are to be provided with delivery of 850 community long-stay nursing researchers in the near future. I pay tribute to the home beds through public private partnerships. small, dedicated Labour Party staff who do a Years after the promise, not one bed exists on a great deal of work to ensure that we have a sound drawing board let alone in a completed facility. It basis on which to make our arguments in the is an indication of the lack of planning and strat- House. Labour Party staff did excellent work in egising that has characterised the Government’s tracking the Government’s record on medical policy on care of the elderly and it is a matter of cards as opposed to the spin. We produced a great concern. document recently, entitled A Cruel Deception, As we are all aware, the population is aging. which tracks the story of the loss of medical cards While we are fortunate that our population has a during the term of office of a Government which younger profile than those of many other promised to increase the number issued. member states, I would have thought it provided It is worth looking at what the Government has us with the opportunity to get things right ahead said. The national health strategy stated there of time rather than to lay the foundations for a would be significant improvements in income future crisis. Nursing home residents and their guidelines to increase the number of persons on spouses are being pauperised as subventions are low incomes eligible for a medical card and to not enough to cover the costs of nursing home give priority to families with children, particularly care. Some cannot manage to pay for care with- those with disability. The 2002 Fianna Fa´il mani- out losing everything, while others cannot pay festo stated the party would extend medical card even after losing everything due to their low eligibility to more than 200,000 extra people with incomes as pensioners. The Government must a clear priority given to families with children. deal with a set of strategic issues in this context. These are the promises, but since 1994 the per- While everybody understands and accepts the centage of the population covered by medical principle that the State should meet a portion of cards has plummeted. Some 36% of the popu- the costs facing people in public nursing care, the lation was covered in 1994, but by 2004 that figure parliament for older people has pointed out that was down to 25.7%. The GP’s contract allows for the proportion of a person’s pension left for up to 40% of the population. We are a very rich pocket money may be too low. When one item- country and we can afford to provide medical ises the costs for newspapers, haircuts, presents cards for people on low incomes who cannot get for relations and cigarettes, it becomes apparent to see their family doctor and pay the drug bills that the proposal to limit pocket money at a low to keep their families well. level requires review. I hope we receive more This is a cheap “Lidl style” medical card. information on the way in which the compen- Money is being diverted elsewhere by the sation scheme will operate. In the case of the Government into less important causes. What can drugs refund scheme under which moneys were be more important than a family having the illegally deducted from people’s funds, it was security of a medical card? They could have that enormously difficult to access the sums owed. The without legislative change. They could have it 1371 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1372

[Ms McManus.] \300,000 for this group. However, the protection immediately without new deals with doctors, or of the medical card scheme and long-term illness awful deals such as that struck with regard to the cover would substantially improve their lives. over-70s. It should be straightforward; it is all That type of intervention would prolong the qual- there. ity of life for those who suffer so much, and we The only thing required is a Government to should look after them. commit the money and live up to its promises. However, that is what we do not have. We have Mr. Sargent: Ba mhaith liom mo chuid ama a a Minister who claims she is now delivering roinnt leis na Teachtaı´ Connolly, Healy agus O´ 200,000 new “yellow pack” GP cards. Shame on Caolaín. her. People need the security of knowing they can This legislation is in many ways an attempt to access care when they need it. A family-only mop up, but the health service requires much doctor card is better than nothing, but are we more than mopping up. It is important that we really that cheap in this country? Have we not have this debate to try to tease out some of the developed in ways that we can afford to? Are we areas which have not been addressed in this legis- going backwards? One only needs look to the lation. I want to stay with the legislation because past. The former Fianna Faíl Minister, Erskine while an overall debate on the health service is Childers, delivered and ensured there was fair- necessary, it will not be justified simply by this ness in the system. He created a way of ensuring legislation. Time must be set aside for it. people could access care, yet now when we are so A number of my constituents are affected by much richer and more capable of providing for the illegality of the Government’s actions in people we are doing proportionally less for them. terms of payments for nursing home care. That is deeply disappointing and adds to the cyni- Included in the number are young adults as well cism people feel about the Government. as the elderly. People with learning disabilities in While the number of medical cards has plum- particular are concerned that they are forgotten meted, medical costs have also plummeted. Our in the overall debate. I do not take from the enor- document showed, for example, that there has mous concern that exists among elderly patients been a 62% increase in health inflation since and their relatives. However, we should perhaps 1997. The industrial wage went up by only 51% give a more comprehensive breakdown because and the increasing rate of inflation by 29.4%. the headlines tend to focus on the issue of the Until the recent changes the increase in income elderly, and, while it is right that they do so, the threshold for medical cards was only 27.88%. whole picture must be seen and understood. One must look at the actual costs that people There have been enormous problems in the without medical cards must meet. Inflation in the area of elderly care, as has been mentioned by health sector is up 62% since 1997; inflation in other speakers. Deputy Twomey spoke earlier of the cost of doctors’ fees is up 75.6%; and inflation the overall condition of nursing homes. In the in the cost of hospital fees is up 108%. The drugs past, for example, people requiring residential threshold has increased greatly. People simply care fell between two stools, not only in terms of cannot afford to care for themselves and their entitlements, enhanced entitlements or the families. bureaucracy involved in making applications, but We now have a cut-rate deal which may or may also geographically. Enormous distress was not work. The Minister promised 30,000 medical caused when an ambulance did not arrive from cards, but fewer people are now getting cover the nearest location but from the centre of a than when she took office. She is stating that this health board area that was much further away. Bill will bring in 200,000 people under the “yel- There was a lack of co-ordination in that regard low pack” scheme, but there is no link between but it is to be hoped that we have left that behind the Bill and the figure of 200,000. She may say us now. It was a needless cause of distress to that, but the evidence is not there. We must tease people in my area of Balbriggan which was closer out this matter on Committee Stage. to Drogheda than Dublin for ambulance services. Last night I attended a meeting of post-polio The overall issue of nursing home standards sufferers and the issue of medical cards and long- and the provision of public nursing home facilities term illness cover came up. This issue was raised in particular requires further debate. I would wel- at the Joint Committee on Health and Children come such a debate if it could be arranged. The and there was all-party unanimity that post-polio Minister of State, Deputy Seań Power, will be sufferers and their support group need to be aware of the extent to which home help is being prioritised. These people are suffering the severe cut back because his brother, my friend and col- effects of polio later in life even though they con- league, Councillor J.J. Power, has probably told tracted it years ago. There is only one generation; him about it. That cutback has a knock-on effect there will be no more. However, these people are and is part of the important debate that needs to still in our community and still experience great take place concerning nursing home care. People difficulties. I urge the Minister to ensure this who find it difficult to manage generally prefer to small category of vulnerable people are properly stay in their homes. The availability of a home provided for. help can make the difference between having a I thank the Secretary General for coming to the good quality of life or, sometimes, losing the will committee and I thank the Minister for providing to live. Home helps represent exceptionally good 1373 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage 1374 value for money but they earn meagre pay. That I call for a moratorium for people who cur- problem needs to be addressed by providing rently have medical cards. Some form of instruc- proper remuneration for the work done. There is tion should be issued not to withdraw medical no comparison between the cost of providing cards from those who have them, although that home help and the cost of a nursing home place. appears to be the trend. It is most likely that the The amount saved by not having to provide a people whose medical cards might be withdrawn nursing home place makes the provision of home will automatically become entitled to the doctor- help more than worthwhile. The Department only cards. Until the Bill is enacted and the new should examine how it can satisfy the need for cards become available, we should avoid pulling home helps thus avoiding the fall-back position the plug by withdrawing medical cards from those of providing nursing home places, because that who currently hold them. appears to be the only available option. The The Bill’s provisions contain some restrictive Minister of State is in a good position to address qualifications, particularly the phrase “[for that matter, so I would like to hear his views on whom] it would be unduly burdensome to that question which is relevant to the general dis- arrange general practitioner medical and surgical cussion on nursing homes. services for themselves and their dependants”. In his opening remarks, the Minister of State The matter is left to the discretion of the new referred to general practitioner-only medical Health Service Executive, with no income guide- cards. A trend is developing whereby people find lines specified in the legislation. It seems there they are unable to attend their GPs as often as will be a decrease in the number of medical they used to. They find there is only one option, cards provided. which is the GP who happens to be available. The solution may involve discussions with the GPs One of the benchmarks for community welfare themselves. Yesterday was work balance day, so officers is an income guideline. It may not be the GPs need to take this matter into account as well. best method and on many occasions we have criti- When somebody cannot visit their own GP who cised such income guidelines but at least they pro- is familiar with their case history, it represents a vided a benchmark. I am concerned that the with- lowering of health care standards. Their local GP drawal of medical cards will now be left to the represents a better chance of providing holistic discretion of the chief executive officer of the health care because he or she knows the patient Health Service Executive. The provision of and may know their family members as well. That 200,000 GP-only medical cards to bring border- is a help when it comes to treating hereditary line cases in line with regular medical cards would diseases. seem to be little more than a pipe-dream divorced In dealing with the Bill on Committee Stage, from reality. The number of medical cards is I hope we can examine those issues, which are being reduced. We were promised 200,000 extra relevant. They may not fall directly within the cards but they are not coming on stream; they are terms of the legislation but, nonetheless, they rep- being withdrawn. resent an opportunity to raise expectations Apart from the lack of guidelines for the pro- through upgrading the provision of services. vision of medical cards, the insufficient number Ta´ dıóma ar dhaoine ata´ ag fiosru´ mar gheall of GPs to cater for 200,000 GP-only cards will ar na haisıóctaıóchtaı´ altranais mar, de reír deal- have to be addressed. There is a crisis, partic- raimh, nı´l aon duine fostaithe ag an lıńe ularly in some rural areas that cannot attract chabhrach naísiu´ nta chun deíleaíl le daoine trı´ newly qualified doctors. That issue must be Ghaeilge. Tar eís do dhaoine fiosru´ a dheánamh addressed as well. o´ aíteanna sa Ghaeltacht, no sa Ghalltacht, nı´l Holders of GP-only medical cards will have to duine ar faíl le cu´ rsaı´ a phle´ trı´ Ghaeilge. Is trua pay up to \85 for prescription drugs and hospital e´ sin agus seans go bhfuil se´ mı´bhunreachtu´ il. Ta´ services. The cost of visits to a GP is a serious an Coimisineír Teanga ag ple´ na ceiste ach ta´ se´ deterrent for people on low incomes. The pro- go dona do dhaoine o´ n Ghaeltacht ata´ aosta agus vision of GP-only cards recognises this and is a ata´ a phle´ cu´ rsaı´ trı´ Ghaeilge o´ thu´ s saoil amach step in the right direction in that it will be more nach bhfuil siad in ann deíleaíl leis an cheist seo likely that such card holders will visit their trı´ Ghaeilge. doctors and, therefore, that their illnesses will be diagnosed earlier. The medical evidence is that Mr. Connolly: I welcome the opportunity to early diagnosis and intervention can lead to a speak on the Bill which provides for the introduc- more successful result from treatment. Early tion of GP-only medical cards as well as providing intervention means that patients will not have to a basis for levying charges on elderly persons in wait while their illnesses deteriorate or face nursing homes and full-time care. Nobody doubts increased medical costs as a result. If they remain that the provision of GP-only medical cards, or untreated, such people can become emergency “yellow pack” cards as they are popularly known, cases availing of hospital accident and emergency is a step in the right direction. However, the Bill units. These issues must be examined. appears to have a few ominous, restrictive qualifications that will water down the provision of Debate adjourned. such cards. 1375 Priority 2 March 2005. Questions 1376

Sitting suspended at 1.30 p.m. and resumed at and safeguarding the future of the commercial 2.30 p.m. farming sector.

Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed). Mr. Naughten: I thank the Minister for her response. From that and the Minister’s comments on 9 February at the Joint Committee on Agri- Priority Questions. culture and Food, it appears she is teeing us up for a fall-back in regard to the Brosnan proposals. ———— Is that the case? In her response, the Minister focused on the discussion and negotiation. Is she Nitrates Directive. prepared to defend the scientific basis that has 64. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- been put forward in the Brosnan proposals and culture and Food the revised proposals she make the case on the scientific evidence rather intends to make to the European Commission than entering into negotiations with the Com- following its rejection of the Government’s mission and climbing down from the Govern- implementation strategy on the nitrates directive; ment’s position in regard to the Brosnan the interim measures she intends to take to com- proposals? mence the implementation of the directive; and if she will make a statement on the matter. Mary Coughlan: The Brosnan proposals which [7056/05] were agreed by all of the stakeholders have not been accepted by the Commission. The Minister Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary for the Environment, Heritage and Local Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates Government and his officials, in addition to my directive is a matter in the first instance for the officials, went to Brussels where we had dis- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and cussions with the Commission on the basis of the Local Government. Ireland submitted an action Brosnan proposals. However the Commission is programme for further implementation of the still adamant that it will not accept the proposals. directive to the European Commission on 22 In particular, it believes the mandatory waste October 2004. The Commission conveyed its storage periods are too short. The Commission view, by way of a letter of formal notice under also takes issue with the closed periods. It accepts Article 228 of the European Union Treaty issued the division of zones in theory but the ones pro- to Ireland dated 22 December 2004, that the posed by Brosnan are not acceptable. The Com- action programme is not complete and does not mission wishes to see regulations having a binding comply with the requirements of the directive and effect on farmers and it did not consider that the the judgment of the European Court of Justice material in the proposals was sufficiently detailed. against Ireland delivered on 11 March 2004. Further exploration and discussions are needed My Department is working with the Depart- with the Commission to ascertain what will be ment of the Environment, Heritage and Local acceptable to it. That is why I said that dis- Government on the preparation of a response to cussions and negotiations are taking place. The the Commission. Senior officials from my Depart- situation is serious. There are major financial ment and their counterparts in the Department implications for us, in the region of \11 million, of the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- once the court case date clicks in. As well as not ment are in contact with the relevant Commission getting agreement we will have difficulties in our officials and this process of consultation and rural development measure, about which I would negotiation is continuing. have serious concerns. Moreover, the farming The action programme submitted to the Com- community is aware that there must be an oppor- mission in October included arrangements for tunity to discuss and negotiate what will be further implementation of the directive. These acceptable to the Commission and to the farm- are among the elements that the Commission ing fraternity. queried in its letter of formal notice on 22 December. The discussions with the Commission Mr. Naughten: Is it not the case that the closed that are currently taking place at official level are periods, storage issues and so on were put for- exploring these aspects along with the others that ward on the basis of the scientific evidence avail- the Commission raised. able to Mr. Denis Brosnan? That case has already Agreement with the Commission is necessary, been put forward. It now appears that both the not only to avoid the risk of substantial fines on Department of Agriculture and Food and the Ireland but also to safeguard ongoing EU funding Department of the Environment, Heritage and of rural development measures. It remains my Local Government are scaling back from that and objective, and it is also the objective of the Mini- are looking at extended closed and storage ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local periods. The Minister does not appear to be pre- Government, to reach agreement on an action pared to support her own scientific evidence that programme that meets the objectives of the formed the basis of the proposals put forward in nitrates directive in terms of safeguarding water the first instance. She now appears to be more quality while also minimising the burden of com- preoccupied with rural development measures pliance that the agreement will place on farmers than the nitrates directive. Is the Minister pre- 1377 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions (Resumed) 1378 pared to sacrifice the nitrates directive to get a culture Organisation that the virus causing bird good basis for the negotiation of the rural flu may be impossible to eradicate; and if she will development budget? make a statement on the matter. [6951/05]

Mary Coughlan: The Deputy is factually incor- Minister of State at the Department of Agri- rect, as always. He has pre-empted one issue culture and Food (Mr. Browne): Avian influenza which he considers to be more important than is an infectious disease of birds. Migratory water- another. The nitrates directive is not within my fowl, most notably wild duck, are the natural res- ambit; it is within the ambit of the Department of ervoir of avian influenza viruses, and these birds the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- are also most resistant to infection. Domestic ment. That said, I am acutely aware, as are my poultry, including chickens and turkeys, are colleagues, of the implications of the nitrates particularly susceptible to epidemics of rapidly action plan. Perhaps we should have taken some fatal influenza. of these concerns on board ten years ago. Deputy Avian influenza viruses rarely affect humans Crawford can nod away, but his party was in and do not normally infect species other than Government during that time as well and it did birds. The virus has on occasion, however, been not do very much either to try and bring together isolated in humans, and in Vietnam, the H5N1 the farming fraternities on this issue. virus was isolated from a number of patients who died. There is, however, no evidence that the Mr. Naughten: The Minister’s party has been virus can be transmitted from poultry to humans in power for the past eight years. other than by direct contact with infected birds. The risk from poultry meat to humans is negli- Mary Coughlan: I am being realistic on the gible as the virus is destroyed during meat matu- basis that an agreement has been implemented ration, by cooking and by stomach acids. in Northern Ireland, and due to the necessity of The conclusion of a three-day conference in Ho agreeing an action plan and the financial and Chi Minh City, Vietnam, which was jointly organ- other implications of it for the country. More- ised by the Food and Agricultural Organisation over, the farming fraternity is acutely aware of of the United Nations and the World Organis- the issues that have arisen. The Minister for the ation for Animal Health is that while progress has Environment, Heritage and Local Government been made in disease detection and in rapid went to Europe on the basis of the Brosnan pro- response to the disease there is need for more posals. They are not being accepted by the Com- vigorous control campaigns in the countries in mission, nor have many other proposals put for- south-east Asia affected by avian influenza. ward by other member states which also had to Extensive publicity campaigns are suggested as be changed in order to satisfy the water quality well as the principle of segregation of species on issues set down by the Commission. We are in family production units. It is hoped that these the process of having serious discussions with the measures and others will, with the injection of Commission to ascertain what may be acceptable. appropriate funding, aid in the reduction in the On that basis, perhaps some compromise may be risk of the spread of the virus to non-avian spec- needed in order to have an acceptable nitrates ies and humans in the region. action plan. With effect from 23 January 2004, the Euro- pean Commission invoked safeguard decisions to control the importation from south-east Asian Visit of Hungarian Delegation. countries that were approved to trade with the An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Before proceed- EU. ing to the next question, I wish on my behalf and on behalf of the Members of Da´il E´ ireann to Dr. Upton: My understanding of the FAO offer a warm welcome to the members of the report is that this disease will be present for sev- committee on constitutional and judicial affairs of eral years in the countries which experienced out- the Hungarian Parliament who are here with us breaks in 2004 and will be impossible to eradi- in the Distinguished Visitors Gallery. cate. It is also the view of the World Health They are led by their chairman, Dr. Pal Organisation that it is not a question of whether Vastagh. I express the hope that you will find there will be an outbreak but rather when there your visit enjoyable, successful and that it will be will be a pandemic. Human health is primarily at to our mutual benefit. issue, as are the implications for the poultry industry should there be an outbreak here. In this context, does the Minister of State think we have Ceisteanna — Questions (Resumed). adequate resources in place to deal with inspection and regulation, particularly at border inspec- ———— tion posts? Animal Diseases. Mr. Browne: The resources are not a difficulty, 65. Dr. Upton asked the Minister for Agri- they are more than adequate. Moreover, all con- culture and Food if she intends to review the consignments being imported into the EU must first trol and monitoring of chicken imports in view of be presented at EU border inspection posts. At the recent warning from the Food and Agri- the BIPs they undergo a documentary and ident- 1379 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions (Resumed) 1380

[Mr. Browne.] Potato Sector. ity check and the physical checks are carried at 66. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- frequencies laid down by EU law. Where culture and Food if she will report on the acreage required, samples for laboratory analysis for the of potatoes grown here in 1970, 1980, 1990, 2000 purpose of safeguarding human and animal and in the latest year for which figures are avail- health is also carried out. Once imported meat able, and if she will take action in the breach of has met all the required conditions, it is released contract between a company (details supplied) for free circulation within the Union. and growers in north County Dublin which has put the sale of 4,500 tonnes of stored potatoes in Dr. Upton: Other than the border inspections doubt. [6975/05] posts, through which consignments of any product are brought in for trade purposes, there is also Minister of State at the Department of Agri- a concern in regard to people bringing in personal culture and Food (Mr. B. Smith): The area of imports of meat and other products. According potatoes grown in Ireland for the years requested to a reply by the Minister to a parliamentary is as follows: question, up to June 2004, 2,500 tonnes of food was seized and destroyed but no prosecutions Year Hectares were undertaken in respect of the seized personal imports of animal products. Does the Minister of 1970 56,835 State think there are adequate numbers of inspec- 1980 41,583 tors to monitor those imports and what action can 1990 24,300 be taken? I am recording what is stated by the 2000 13,173 WHO and the FAO to the effect that it is almost inevitable that there will be a pandemic, with a 2004 12,604 huge impact on human health and possibly for the poultry industry. The issue regarding the sale of 4,500 tonnes of stored potatoes does not come within my remit Mr. Browne: On a more general note, we are and is a matter for resolution between the grow- keen to ensure that consumers of poultry meat ers involved and the company with whom they have the right to the maximum amount of infor- carry on business. mation about the food they are offered for sale so that they can make informed choices. In this Mr. Sargent: Tugaim faoi deara o´ na figiu´ irı´ a regard, a number of regulations have been thug an tAire Sta´it du´ inn go bhfuil laghdu´ ann. I initiated in the past year and sanctioned by the appreciate that negotiations are ongoing and I Department of Agriculture and Food. hope they will have a satisfactory outcome. I know the Deputy has raised the issue of label- However, the wider issue for which the Minister ling on a number of occasions. The Minister of State is responsible is the overall welfare and raised the issue of labelling at EU level during a development of the potato growing sector in Council meeting and was supported by her Ireland. As he has clearly outlined, the fact that German colleague. I assure the Deputy that the the total area under production has fallen from Minister, at every opportunity, raises this issue 56,835 hectares in 1970 to just 12,000 at present and is concerned to have in place a proper label- represents a huge decline in potato growing in a ling regime, particularly for poultry which is country which should be exporting its produce as imported from third countries. we are in other sectors. It is alarming. Some 20% Dr. Upton: The issue is not one of labelling but of growers have left the business in the past five rather one of detection and the procedures which years and more will leave this year. are in place for it. We must have learned a very Does the Minister of State have plans to hard lesson from the foot and mouth disease. At develop the sector and arrest this decline? For that time there was a knee-jerk reaction whereby example, does he recognise that there are part- all the systems moved to protect Ireland from an icular difficulties in the seed potato sector at outbreak of foot and mouth disease after it had present? An application has been made for grant been detected and declared in the UK. We were assistance in the development of the potato seed particularly lucky to escape as we did. We had sector. More generally, if a grower is required to good systems in place but there was a knee-jerk spend \3,000 to grow an acre of potatoes and reaction in response. However, we now have an needs to sell the crop at approximately \200 per opportunity to put in place a system in advance. tonne but is lucky to get \150 or \130 per tonne, What plans does the Department have for such how can he or she be expected to continue to a system? grow potatoes? Is there a message in this that the Government does not expect people to continue Mr. Browne: The results of the conference in growing potatoes in Ireland and that the sooner Vietnam are being evaluated by the European they sell their land for development the better? Commission at present and it will report its find- That is the message which is being sent out. ings in due course. Potato growers are being asked to do the imposs- 1381 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions (Resumed) 1382 ible, to grow potatoes for less than \130 per Minister, Deputy Coughlan, the Minister of State, tonne. Deputy Browne, and I have had with different Has the Minister of State addressed this prob- stakeholders in the potato industry clearly shows lem? Will he meet the IFA and the growers with that we are determined to arrest the decline, at a a view to resolving the problem so that growers minimum. We are also anxious that further can continue to survive? They cannot do so on investment takes place. speculation as to what they might sell. They need Members who come from a different part of a firm commitment on what they can sell. Will the country where livestock and dairying are the the Minister of State help in this regard? predominant agricultural activities have often spoken out against milk quotas and EU regu- Mr. B. Smith: Only last Thursday I spoke at lation. However, Deputy Sargent might agree the IFA-Teagasc national conference on potatoes that the common market organisation for certain and I met individual farmers both before and products has had benefits as well, in that it pro- after my address. The Minister for Agriculture vides stability. Potatoes are one of the few agri- and Food, Deputy Coughlan, the Minister of cultural commodities that do not come within the State, Deputy Browne, and I have had a number common market organisation. In 2003, there was of meetings with different stakeholders in regard a 16% growth in potato production at EU level. to the potato industry. We recognise that it is a Such growth leads to over supply and poorer very valuable and important part of our agrifood prices for individual growers. That is part of the industry. We met individual groups and industry problem. figures representing the processing point of view as well as that of the growers. We also met the Mr. Sargent: Production is decreasing. The IFA national potato committee on a number of amount of potatoes being sold in a number of occasions. In addition, the Minister has met retail outlets is increasing so there is a demand numerous potato growers and farmers in for the product. I accept what the Minister is say- Donegal. ing but actions speak louder than words. Is there We are very conscious of the issues outlined by a grant for the seed development sector or can the Deputy. The figures I supplied in my initial we expect one? reply demonstrate that there has been a huge drop in the growing pattern in Ireland. At the Mr. B. Smith: Yes. We are giving particular same time, the value of the crop is approximately attention to the seed certification sector. We have \85 million and is very important. Recently, the had meetings ad nauseam with the different Minister approved projects to the value of \6 stakeholders. Furthermore, we have agreed with million. Some time before that, projects to the Bord Bia a specific promotion this year for value of \3 million were approved in regard to potato products. the upgrading and provision of new facilities. I do not accept the Deputy’s argument that the EU Directives. Government is suggesting people should get out 67. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Agri- of the industry. The message we are giving to the culture and Food if any increases will be provided farmers is that the industry has a future. Individ- in farmyard pollution grants, especially in areas ual farmers are investing hugely in providing in which additional storage will have to be pro- modern facilities with the support of the Depart- vided to take account of the extra week’s storage ment, which demonstrates that we have absolute capacity that may be demanded of farms through confidence in the industry. the nitrate agreement; if she will report on efforts The fresh potato sector has been under press- being made to provide grant aid for small farmers ure for some time. I visited Ballymoney Foods in of under 20 livestock units who will be forced out north Antrim at the request of Sea´n Farren of the of farming if no support is provided; and if she SDLP where I met the SDLP and DUP represen- will make a statement on the matter. [7055/05] tatives with the management and workers of that factory. The facility is owned by farmers north Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary and south of the Border. We are anxious that Coughlan): Consultations are currently ongoing they will be able to extend their processing with the European Commission in regard to the facility. When I was in the Deputy’s constituency action programme for implementation of the I visited some state-of-the-art facilities where nitrates directive in Ireland. The question of poss- huge investment is taking place and where ible changes to the levels of grant aid currently produce is being processed to the highest stan- payable under the farm waste management dards. We have invested a great deal in the past scheme will be decided in light of the require- number of years in providing new facilities. ments of the action programme when agreed. We must improve value added potato products. Consumer eating habits have changed. There has Mr. Crawford: Does the Minister accept that been a growth in demand for pasta and rice and an increase in grant funding is needed, especially the prepared and convenience food sector has in those areas where a longer period of storage grown enormously. The number of meetings the will be imposed? Does she accept that the current 1383 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions (Resumed) 1384

[Mr. Crawford.] Mary Coughlan: I am acutely aware of the situation, where those with under 20 livestock repercussions of the nitrates directive. A con- units are ineligible for grant aid, must be siderable amount of investment has already been changed? Otherwise, that sector will disappear. made by farmers. We do not build slurry pits Can the Minister give us an assurance that pro- every few years; they last for a considerable posals are being drafted in that regard? If any period of time. The considerable investment structures are to be put in place this year and farmers have made over the years has been grant given that planning permission and so forth must aided by this Government. The Deputy has 20:20 be taken into account, it is long past time there vision with hindsight. As I recall it, the rainbow was a degree of certainty on this issue. I appreci- Government abolished the farm waste manage- ate the Minister’s problems in this matter. ment scheme and on our return to Government we re-introduced it. Mary Coughlan: This year I provided \30 mill- I believe we have adequate resources at ion for the scheme. Naturally, applications are present. In the event of changes in the nitrates slow in the context of the changes that arise from directive we will have to ascertain their financial the nitrates directive. Under Sustaining Progress, implications for both commercial and small farm enterprises. we increased grant aid from 20% to 40%, which is substantial. We carried out an audit under Mr. Crawford: Has the Department made any Teagasc of what is available in the country at decision on the earthen banks and wintering present. Under any agreement that is reached pads? there will be a financial imposition on some farmers. As it stands, this is the case in the Deputy’s Mary Coughlan: I have met Teagasc and it has constituency. We are evaluating that and examin- almost finalised its views on those issues. Ulti- \ ing the cost implications. I have 30 million this mately, the cheaper options might not be the best. year for the farm waste management scheme. In my constituency, people vehemently oppose There is an issue with the 20 livestock units, the provision of such facilities as they are inad- particularly for part-time farmers and small farm equate for the climate. There are also safety enterprises. The Commission has opposed the issues. However, if they are dealt with in the concept of anything less than 20 livestock units. I proper fashion, they might provide an oppor- do not agree with that view but the Commission tunity for some farmers in certain parts of the believes that fewer than 25 is not viable. I will country. evaluate and ascertain, in the context of the changes that have taken place, the implications Mr. Crawford: I agree with the Minister on for those with fewer than 20 livestock units and that issue. what can be done to support them following whatever decision is made on the nitrates Mary Coughlan: Perhaps the Deputy would let directive. I cannot give a commitment now as to the IFA know, when its representatives are roar- what will be available. People have anticipations ing at me, that it is the same in his constituency. and others have made recommendations but until I know the full implications of it, I will not be in Disposal of Animal By-product. a position to ascertain how the scheme will look. 68. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food if her attention has been drawn Mr. Crawford: I appreciate that the Minister to the fact that digestate from anaerobic digestion has only been in office for a short time and that may be spread on land under certain conditions she has much work to do to rectify the damage but that a statutory instrument here still prevents done by her predecessor, who was in office for spreading of digestate; and if she will consider the ten of the last 12 years and did nothing on the case being put by farmers such as a person nitrates directive. The Minister said she has \30 (details supplied) in County Waterford who million, although I believe the amount is \38 mill- wrote to her Department on this matter in early ion, allocated for farmyard pollution. In 1997, £60 January 2005. [7053/05] \ million was spent on this while last year only 17 Mary Coughlan: Council Regulation (EC) million was spent. Taking account of inflation, is \ 1774/2002 sets out the provisions relating to the the Minister satisfied that the 38 million is suf- disposal of all animal by-products including the ficient or is she relying on the fact that there is so digestate produced through anaerobic digestion much red tape, farmers will be unable to draw in approved biogas plants. Under this regulation down the money? The sum of \38 million will not digestate, which may include animal by-products do much in this day and age to rectify the serious from such plants, may not be spread on pas- problem that exists. Does the Minister under- tureland. stand the anxiety among farmers over whether In addition, however, Ireland has adopted they will be in production in 12, 18 or 24 months national controls to counteract the spread of as a result of this nitrates directive? BSE. The need to prevent the spread of this dis- 1385 Ceisteanna — 2 March 2005. Questions (Resumed) 1386 ease has been of central importance to Ireland cerns that has been brought to our attention by since its discovery here in 1989. Over the years as pig and poultry and producers, for example, is scientific knowledge has progressed, a sequence that they will not have adequate lands available of measures was introduced in the EU to combat to spread slurry. Therefore, on that basis, the the spread of BSE. These measures are aimed Minister of State, Deputy Browne, and the Mini- principally at ensuring the safety of the con- ster for Communications, Marine and Natural sumers of beef and at preventing the exposure of Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, considered cattle to the infective BSE agent through feed. the issue of energy crops and biofuels. The issue Ireland has adopted control measures in advance of anaerobic digestate is annexed to this. In my of other member states and, in some cases, has constituency, the farm relief service proposes to adopted more stringent controls than elsewhere introduce an anaerobic digester. in the European Union. One of the controls in The Department of the Environment, Heritage place and laid down in S I 551 of 2002 prohibits, and Local Government drafted the national biod- in effect, the spreading on land of digestate from egradable strategy. However, to progress and a biogas plant where the feed stock used in that transfer from landfill to anaerobic digestion plant had any animal by-product in it containing would require the amendment of statutory instru- animal protein. ments. On the basis of present consultations, the The robust approach we have taken has been changes with regard to BSE and the issue of deal- successful in having Ireland’s BSE controls vali- ing with the nitrates directive are at the top of the dated within the European Union and by coun- agenda for consideration. Changes will be made tries outside of the Union, thereby protecting as quickly as possible. valuable export outlets for our agricultural pro- It is new technology for us but old for others. duction on which we are uniquely dependant. In On the basis of an attitudinal change in this coun- addition, the fall in the numbers of BSE cases in try, opportunities arise in regard to this new tech- recent years and the increasing age profile of the nology. It is being advanced with other techno- cases detected is concrete proof of the effective- logies to deal with what is perceived as a waste ness of the control measures in place. product but, as Deputy Sargent rightly suggests, However, in view of the declining rate of BSE which can be used. I hope an attitudinal change cases here, I have asked my officials to review the will also take place in the planning process, although I note Deputy Upton is rightly throwing need to maintain specific control measures in the her eyes to heaven. disposal of certain animal by-products, including those that may be included in digestate from Mr. Sargent: Does the Minister accept that the biogas plants. land spreading of digestate is much easier than Mr. Sargent: I welcome the Minister’s spreading the raw material as it does not have an response, particularly as she is prepared to con- odour problem? Has the Minister visited any of the anaerobic digestion plants, as I have, includ- sider the current situation rather than dwelling on ing one not far from the home area of the Mini- an historic situation which may not be as relevant ster of State, Deputy Browne? Farmers are using as it was. I appreciate her precautionary this. While the Department may not be familiar approach. Naturally, we do not want to be reck- with it, many farmers take it as an integral part less or in any way put at risk the important status of their overall operation. A number of farmers we hold. are feeding raw material into one anaerobic To follow on neatly from Deputy Crawford’s question, if there is to be a prohibition on the digester I know of. They benefit greatly from eas- inclusion or acceptance of certain material for ier spreading as well as creating a waste product anaerobic digestion, what other plans which contains energy. 3 o’clock are in place? Is it satisfactory that we would continue to stockpile? Will the Mary Coughlan: I have not had the opportunity Minister announce the outcome of whatever to visit such a plant. The Deputy is correct to review she is undertaking given that producers state that odour is reduced because the digestate have invested in plant and machinery for anaer- is dry. Much work has been completed on the obic digestion? technologies involved. However, one of the diffi- All things being equal, it is a beneficial win-win culties is the not in my back yard syndrome. situation in that it creates energy and material People do not want this type of facility in their which is nutritious in terms of land spread being vicinity. However, among the farming fraternity, of an even consistency — more so than the raw producers are coming together to deal with this material — and disposes of what otherwise would issue. For example, the poultry sector in County be a waste product. Will the Minister state when Monaghan provided facilities to deal with the she plans to have an outcome of the review so we effluent issue there. The Deputy is correct that can reduce waste and benefit from other this is the way forward. How far we progress will technology? depend on the result of education on its benefits.

Mary Coughlan: This also arises in the context Mr. Sargent: The Minister can expect an of the directive under discussion. One of the con- invitation. 1387 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1388

Mary Coughlan: Will the Deputy take me to abuse. It is also open to abuse in regard to somewhere nicer? the issue of substantial transformation. Will the Minister provide a timescale for addressing this Mr. Sargent: The Minister will love it. issue? Ireland should be setting the agenda. Will she do this ahead of Commission proposals?

Other Questions. Mary Coughlan: The issue of substantial transformation was raised by me on Monday last at ———— Commission level, most particularly in regard to the poultry sector. The issue of labelling has now Beef Imports. dawned for many EU member states which were 69. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Agri- vehemently opposed to this when it was led by culture and Food the action she is taking to the Irish. There is a change within the Council in ensure all third country beef is properly labelled; regard to substantial transformation and sourc- and if she will make a statement on the ing, including date and place of slaughter. matter. [6787/05] However, in the interim, Ireland is proceeding on the issue. While it would have been better and Mary Coughlan: Beef imports into the Euro- easier to do this in the context of a European pean Union from third countries must have been decision, we are not prepared to wait. sourced, first, in countries and, second, premises I met the Ta´naiste. She will facilitate primary listed and approved by the European Com- legislation through her Department, at which mission and which are subject to veterinary audits stage we will be able to give legal impetus to a by the EU’s Food and Veterinary Office. In statutory instrument that I will put forward on addition, such imports are subject to checks laid this issue. down in the harmonised rules prescribed at Euro- pean level and must be accompanied by the pre- Mr. Naughten: What primary legislation is scribed veterinary health certification from the required and what is the timescale for it? I am competent authorities in the country of export. glad the Fine Gael Private Members’ motion put The Community beef labelling requirements, the Government and the Commission in focus. which are compulsory in all member states, apply to beef sold at retail level within the Community, Mary Coughlan: I would not get too big a head. regardless of whether that beef was produced I do not know if the Commission reads our within the Community or a third country. Where reports. beef is imported into the Community from a third country, that beef must, at a minimum, be lab- Mr. Naughten: It focused the Minister’s mind. elled as “Origin: non-EC”, with an indication of the third country in which slaughter took place. Mary Coughlan: My mind would have been There is a gap in these EU requirements in so more focused on this issue, particularly in the far as they do not apply at restaurant and catering poultry sector, than the minds of some of the men sector level, and Ireland has raised this with the in this House over the years. I am supporting our Commission. It is my intention to proceed with a poultry sector. Some people may be surprised national legal requirement that country of origin that consumers are not aware that in the majority must be displayed in respect of beef served on of cases, the poultry they eat, particularly the such premises. Proposals to this effect will be majority of chicken breasts, do not come from brought forward once the legal options allowing this country. for this development have been fully examined. In this regard, I am in consultation with the Mr. Naughten: It is not coming from the EU. Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, on the appropriate legal mech- Mary Coughlan: It is coming through the EU, anisms to give effect to such labelling. assisted by the trains. Our fresh produce is good. I was prepared to introduce a statutory instru- Mr. Naughten: I thank the Minister for her ment when I came to this Department and I had reply. Has the European Commission put for- been advised by the Attorney General that it ward a proposal to Argentina, Brazil, Paraguay must be supported by primary legislation. I found and Uruguay to increase their imports into the that it was going to take me some time to get European Union by approximately 300%? The back to the House with primary legislation and Minister referred to audits by the EU’s Food and on that basis I am being facilitated with such Veterinary Office. Two separate audits were car- legislation by means of a new health Act which ried out in Brazil and both uncovered similar the Minister for Health and Children will hope- problems which have not been resolved. This fully bring forward at the beginning of the next threatens the issue of biosecurity of imports to term if we get through everything else in this this country and raises serious questions on tra- term. ceability. The Minister stated the requirements do not Dr. Upton: I thank the Minister for her answer apply to catering, which leaves the system open and I welcome the progress being made. Another 1389 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1390 related issue is that of traceability. This is not just organic producers should consider a particular a matter of labelling. One can insist on any labels symbol with which they would be synonymous as one wants to. First, there are issues surrounding a group. That may be a matter for the trade itself, the language in which labels are presented. but I know that trademarking, and having an Second, the issue of the Sudan Red 1 dye which affinity with something one can see, is as has emerged in the past couple of weeks has important as labelling. If we are to compete in made a significant impact for consumers regard- the organic area, which I would like to see hap- ing what they are eating and what other com- pening, we must look seriously at the cost issue ponents might be in a product, not necessarily in and the disappointing fact that so much of the beef or poultry but across the whole spectrum of organic food consumed in Ireland is not grown foods we eat. here. I would like to know if there is any way of co- ordinating that information across the Depart- Animal Diseases. ments. I appreciate that the Food Standards 70. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Agri- Authority has overall responsibility but the Mini- culture and Food the situation with regard to ster’s Department will not take questions regard- Johne’s disease here. [6979/05] ing Sudan Red 1. It makes it very difficult for spokespersons on agriculture to get a response on Mr. Browne: Johne’s disease is widespread in behalf of the consumer who is eating these prod- other EU member states and indeed worldwide. ucts. Traceability is therefore a major issue. It is a chronic infectious disease of cattle, which gives rise to gradual wasting and loss of condition. Mary Coughlan: I appreciate that but it is not Most cattle are infected early in life and while really my responsibility. The Food Standards adult animals can become infected, it is rare and Authority of Ireland, FSAI, comes under the they usually have other problems such as Department of Health and Children because tra- deficiencies with their immune system. The dis- ceability is a food safety and public health issue. ease has been notifiable in this country since We must tackle the labelling issue in many ways. 1955. To be able to see what is on the label would be a Until 1992, strict import conditions ensured start. People must also understand what is on the that Johne’s disease was relatively rare in Ireland. label, which is what Deputy Upton is speaking of. However, since 1993, the increase in the number There are methodologies by which we can iden- of cattle imported in the aftermath of the single tify country of origin with date and place of market contributed to a significant increase in the slaughter, which is important. It is on that basis numbers of reported cases of the disease. In 2002 that we will look at that type of information. and 2003, 100 animals and 150 animals respect- One of the major issues under the regulation is ively were diagnosed as having Johne’s disease. the transformation issue. I have indicated Figures of incidence of the disease for 2004 strongly that it is open to abuse, that it is not have not been collated. Results on samples sub- acceptable and that we are prepared to close it. I mitted for culture can take up to six months regret I cannot do much about the issue involving because of the extremely slow growth pattern of the FSAI but I reassure Deputy Upton that there the organism. Farmers in general appear to be is ongoing consultation between the FSAI and my more aware of the disease and the increased vol- Department on many issues, not necessarily on a ume of samples particularly blood samples being weekly basis but very regularly. submitted for analysis suggests that an increasing number are actively managing the disease on Mr. Sargent: I am glad that attention has been their own farms. Control of Johne’s disease given, as it needs to be, not just to labelling and centres on hygiene and on-farm animal manage- traceability but also to the catering and restaurant ment in particular with respect to the rearing of business as that has been a glaring omission for a potential breeding animals. I recognize the need long time. Will the Minister say if the labelling for support of an effective national strategy to reviews are looking at the need for a common arrest and reverse the incidence of the disease. label for Irish organic produce, which has suf- In an effort to raise awareness and to promote fered in marketing terms because of the diversity higher standards of hygiene management prac- of labelling of food coming into the country and tices and calf rearing, my Department published on Irish produce? I know that many organic pro- two booklets in 2002 on Johne’s disease. One of ducers have sought to have one label and I won- these is aimed at the farmer and the other at the der what progress has been made on that. private veterinary practitioner. These booklets detail the precautions individual farmers should Mary Coughlan: I would like to see an increase take to keep the disease out of their herds. It in organic capacity and to see the price issue would also be prudent for any prospective pur- addressed, as no doubt would Deputy Sargent. chaser to seek private certification of freedom The issue of labelling will be considered in the from Johne’s disease from a vendor of cattle context of changes made. A labelling group made either imported from abroad or sourced within a number of recommendations which have now this country. been addressed but there are still opportunities In early 2003, my Department discontinued the and a need for reorientation. Perhaps even the policy of slaughtering affected animals when it 1391 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1392

[Mr. Browne.] Department but ended up with a serious Johne’s became apparent that this approach was not disease problem. Has an effort been made to effective. A strategic review, which involved con- prevent farmers from selling animals, which have sultation with relevant interests, of the approach contracted Johne’s disease? If a farmer seeks to tackling the disease was initiated. The process advice from the Department regarding which ani- generated a number of very useful proposals of a mals to buy and they subsequently contract practical nature. Johne’s disease, is there an onus on the Depart- ment to compensate him? Mr. Sargent: I thank the Minister of State for his reply. Does he recognise that the open market Mary Coughlan: The Deputy has received a by- did not take account of the ability of diseases election representation. such as this to spread? I did not hear him mention quarantine in his reply, but will he consider the Dr. Upton: The Minister of State partially view I have heard expressed by farmers and vets answered my question regarding the updated that there is a need for closer attention to be paid methodology for detection. The time lag between to the quarantine issue, particularly for specimens taking a sample and getting a result is a major of breeding animals coming into the country, and problem. What efforts are being made to fast- that this has slipped in the past? Will he agree track that process? What research developments that part of the problem is that there was not suf- have taken place? ficient attention paid to the possibility of the Are there concerns about the pasteurisation of spread of Johne’s disease in the past? Have we milk given the tenuous link between Johne’s dis- learnt lessons to ensure that this spread is halted? ease and Crohn’s disease in humans? Are the Farmers are finding it difficult enough to com- terms of pasteurisation under review? pete, but if there is some condition which is causing waste, where animals are being fed but there Mr. Naughten: Given that 25% of the adult is less production, does the Minister accept that population have poor literacy skills, will the Mini- this is adding to the problem? What lessons have ster of State consider issuing a video rather than been learnt and how do they relate to booklets to disseminate information on these quarantine? issues?

Mr. Browne: The Department has introduced Mr. Browne: I will consider Deputy Naughten’s a number of initiatives. As I said, it has distrib- suggestion. I would like the pilot scheme to get uted two booklets, one for the farmer and one for under way so that all the issues raised can be the vet. We have also had a short-time strategy addressed. There are no concerns about pasteur- involving a training and information seminar for ised milk. interested private veterinary practitioners, which took place in January last and was attended by 80 Mr. Crawford: What about my question? Who vets. It is intended to hold further seminars with is responsible? Teagasc advisers and the Department in the near future. Mary Coughlan: Nothing can be done because it is a diagnostic problem. As part of the next phase of the review in 2004, and on the basis of an identified need to generate Mr. Browne: That is why the Department is rapidly increased awareness, Teagasc, the ICOS, undertaking the pilot scheme. Veterinary Ireland and the Department organised a series of workshops. Within the Depart- Mary Coughlan: The farmer involved has been ment, a medium-term strategy involves research in touch with the Department on a number of and it will include measures such as the eval- occasions. While there is an issue, the diagnostic uation of a number of diagnostic and screening procedure is the difficulty. The Department does methods for Johne’s disease and the interim pro- not buy cattle. vision of diagnostic supports at the central veterinary research laboratory. The Department has Mr. Naughten: Teagasc is good at selling them \ allocated approximately 400,000 for this purpose in Leitrim. over the past two years. The Department is considering consulting the industry and other Mr. B. Smith: It is a major research centre. interested parties on a number of other initiatives which will form a strategy to address Johne’s dis- Mary Coughlan: The Deputy should wake up. ease. A number of issues must be resolved but we intend to proceed with a pilot initiative. Grant Payments. 71. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Agri- Mr. Crawford: The Minister of State referred culture and Food her plans for the modulation to the publication of booklets and so on. A fund; and if she will make a statement on the farmer in a neighbouring county to mine lost his matter. [6776/05] herd to BSE. He bought another herd but one animal was infected with Johne’s disease. He Mary Coughlan: The modulated funds become bought those animals under the supervision of the available for use in 2006. I will decide on their 1393 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1394 use and seek the necessary EU approval in the be made in June but it may take time on the basis coming months. My Department is finalising its of the tour de table that took place last Monday. examination of the relevant options. As part of that examination there has been a widespread Food Industry. public consultation and discussions with stake- 72. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Agri- holders. The use of modulated funds in 2006 is culture and Food if she will report on the limited to certain measures. The eligible measures taken to assist the marketing and pro- measures are contained in the Common Agricul- cessing of agricultural products. [6869/05] tural Policy rural development plan, including agri-environment, early retirement, compensa- Mary Coughlan: The National Development tory allowances and forestry, and the new initiat- Plan 2000-2006 contains an indicative funding ives introduced as part of the CAP mid-term allocation of \358 million to the food industry for review are food quality, animal welfare, farm a range of measures covering capital investment, advisory services and meeting standards. My research, technology and innovation, marketing decision on the use of the funds will be informed and promotion and human resources. A total of by the terms and conditions of those measures. more than \72 million has been awarded to date in respect of the capital investment scheme Mr. Naughten: Will the Minister comment on administered jointly by my Department and the last week’s rumour that these funds will come development agencies. under the disadvantaged areas scheme for the The element of the capital investment scheme current year? If not, are there plans to include administered by my Department assists capital the funds under the scheme at a future date if projects which are intended to improve market- Ireland is still entitled to them following the Mini- ing and processing in the horticulture, potato, ster’s negotiations in June? eggs, grain and livestock sectors which do not fall Does the Minister plan to focus on issues such within the remit of the industrial development as food quality, animal health and meeting stan- agencies or are not covered by my Department’s on-farm schemes. In general, investments must dards, which are critically important for the agri- \ cultural sector, or will the Minister for Com- exceed 100,000 and up to 40% grant aid is available. Following calls for applications in 2002 and munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs get his hands \ on the modulated funds? 2004, my Department has allocated 30.31 million in respect of 112 projects across the various sectors as follows: grain sector — 31 projects, \12.60 Mary Coughlan: I am delighted that the dis- million awarded; potato sector — 21 projects, cussion with the IFA made the front page of the \7.23 million awarded; livestock sector — 35 pro- Irish Farmers’ Journal. Perhaps if that discussion jects, \4.08 million awarded; horticulture sector had been on the record, the story would not have — 18 projects, \3.64 million awarded; and egg been published. packing sector — seven projects, \2.76 million There has been significant consultation and I awarded. received more than 60 submissions. One of the The client companies supported by Enterprise difficulties is the funds are available only for one Ireland are primarily Irish manufacturing and year, 2006, before they become part of the rural internationally traded services companies development programme. The modulated funds employing ten or more people, Firms located in amount to \18.3 million this year and will \ the mid-west are supported by Shannon Develop- increase to 33 million next year. A number of ment, while firms in the Gaeltacht areas are sup- initiatives relating to food quality, husbandry, calf ported by U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. The support rearing and sheep have been undertaken. mechanisms available from these development However, the problem is the animal health issue agencies to food companies engaged in marketing is so broad that it may be difficult to tie down and processing of agricultural products include what we want. non-repayable grants, preference shares and ordi- Options are available, the easiest of which is to nary share capital. The development agencies provide a top up. I have not decided whether to have also awarded a total of \42 million to client do that and then re-evaluate the position under companies towards capital investment activities the rural development regime, but a number of under the national development plan. good initiatives have been proposed. Discussions The measure relating to marketing and pro- are taking place with the farming organisations. I motion is implemented by Bord Bia. The objec- met them and my officials are following up while tive of this measure is to support the marketing the internal working group is considering the pro- and promotion of food and drinks products by posals. It is a small sum but I would like it to be facilitating the development of new markets and used in the most efficient way. The decision must the expansion of current markets. Assistance is be made by April or May and the modulated provided in the form of individual company sup- funds will not be accessible by the Minister for port and support for the development of the Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. The industry as a whole. Under the NDP to date, access decision on rural development has not almost \30 million has been committed by Bord been made and further discussion at the Agri- Bia on these marketing and promotional culture Council is required. I hope a decision will activities. 1395 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1396

Mr. Naughten: The Minister of State has made question. Is he satisfied that there should be a a great case for some type of co-ordination in this minimum limit of \100,000? There are small, regard which is not currently in place. In light of family-owned food industry units. I am thinking that, would he agree we need a single food indus- of some butchers that act as wholesalers and are try development agency and a comprehensive under tremendous pressure to meet all sorts of marketing programme for our indigenous food unique standards without grant-aid being companies, as set out in the enterprise strategy available. plan now abandoned by the Government? In that context, why were those two proposals not Mr. B. Smith: There are some projects calling included in the action plan the Government for assistance that have lower-scale costs, and that approved last week? Why has the Department of is among the issues being addressed in the Agriculture and Food been left out of the loop Department. regarding the implementation plan, in which six other Departments are involved? Dr. Upton: Is any special consideration being given to marketing of food arising from EU Mr. B. Smith: I reject every comment and sub- expansion, regarding both threats from imports mission the Deputy has made. He is making alle- and opportunities for us? There is particular con- gations that are totally without foundation. cern about the mushroom industry. Obviously, Fine Gael has changed policy in recent years in that, when Bord Glas was amalga- Mr. B. Smith: The Deputy will be aware that mated with Bord Bia, the party vehemently a mushroom task force met some years ago. It opposed the proposal. Now it is advocating a reported last year, and departmental officials and greater rationalisation of organisations. In recent I have met it and stakeholders in the industry. years, Bord Bia has undertaken excellent work They have been under particular pressures and it is being carried out both directly by the regarding products coming from eastern Europe, Department in funding product development, particularly to the British market, to which we research and innovation and by the development predominantly exported. Those issues are being agencies. More than \300 million has been allo- addressed, and very substantial progress has been cated in the national development plan towards made in implementing the recommendations of food-related initiatives. A very substantial por- the mushroom task force. We are conscious of the tion of that allocation has already been drawn challenges and opportunities that have arisen as down. a result of the expansion of the European Union We talked earlier in reply to Deputy Sargent’s to 25 states. It is not all challenges, since there questions on the potato sector. The Department are opportunities too. has provided very substantial funding towards research, innovation, provision of new facilities Mr. Crawford: The mushroom industry is going and marketing of products. The programmes in out of business. place are successful and are bringing about real improvements and generating additional Mr. B. Smith: It is not. employment. The Deputy is misrepresenting the report on Mr. Sargent: Have there been any discussions enterprise strategy too, which did not make recently with the Minister for the Environment, recommendations that were food-specific. It Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche, made recommendations regarding the general regarding not simply retail planning guidelines, competitiveness and workings of the economy. In which are probably most on his mind in this my constituency last week, I spoke to several regard, but the casual trading possibilities of people involved in the artisan and speciality food farmers’ markets, something he has mentioned sector. One thing they mentioned to me was that previously? What progress has been made in recently the decrease in insurance costs had been bringing us up to the standard that operates in an extremely positive development for such pro- France, for example, which seems to have market jects, really making them competitive and helping advantage and, accordingly, a very positive image them achieve the scale of costs they desire. internationally as a food country?

Acting Chairman (Mr. Kirk): Before Deputy Mr. B. Smith: On the last occasion the Deputy Crawford speaks, I remind him that we have not tabled questions, I believe that he was due to visit yet required the desirable aspiration that Ranelagh on the following Sunday, so I hope he Members restrict their supplementary questions had a good afternoon there. to four minutes. The Deputy may be breaching that now, and I ask him for a very short sup- Mr. Sargent: Yes, and I have had many more plementary question. since.

Mr. Crawford: That is the second time in the Mr. B. Smith: Good for him that he can get House today that I have been told the minute I away from his constituency on a Sunday; most of have got up to speak that there is no time avail- us do not get that opportunity. We might get to able. I wish to ask the Minister of State only one a football match within the county, or outside if 1397 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1398 our team is playing away from home. The Deputy submission of applications regarding force may have read that recently there was a seminar majeure or exceptional circumstances. The or conference in Cork regarding farmers’ scheme was extensively advertised in the national markets. and local press, with an initial closing date of 23 January 2004. Owing to the high level of interest Mr. Sargent: I was at it. in the measure and difficulties being experienced by certain applicants in obtaining documentary Mr. B. Smith: Good. Judging by the reports evidence, my Department extended the closing that I have had from Bord Bia and departmental date to 6 February 2004 to give farmers every officials, it was a very successful conference. opportunity to submit an application. We Local authorities are facilitating the development received in excess of 15,000 applications, of which of farmers’ markets throughout the country, and 98% have been processed to finality. the Office of Public Works, following correspon- Provision was made whereby any farmers dis- dence between the Minister of State and me, is satisfied with the decision of my Department in also anxious to facilitate such development where respect of their application under force majeure feasible. Bord Bia, working in conjunction with or exceptional circumstances had the right to the various Leader programmes, is eager to appeal. In that regard, the single payment appeals develop the farmers’ markets, which are proving committee, comprising an independent chairman, very successful. There are several areas where we Mr. John Duggan, and four appeals officers from would like to see their further growth and the Agriculture Appeals Office, was established. I development. am satisfied that this appeals mechanism provides farmers with an effective means to have their Mr. Sargent: Will the Minister of State discuss applications reviewed in an independent, fair, the matter with the Minister for the Environment, comprehensive and efficient manner if they are Heritage and Local Government, Deputy Roche? not satisfied with my Department’s decision in their case. Mr. B. Smith: It is a matter for the local auth- Following the issue of statements of provisional orities to implement planning regulations on the entitlements in September 2004, my Department ground. As the Deputy knows, it need not go the granted farmers who had not already done so a Customs House. further opportunity to submit applications regarding force majeure or exceptional circum- Common Agricultural Policy. stances. We have received in excess of 3,000 such 73. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Agri- applications. The deadline for submission of culture and Food her plans to review the force applications under this phase of the scheme was majeure procedure for the single farm payment; 29 October 2004. All unsuccessful applicants will and if she will make a statement on the continue to have a right of appeal to the indepen- matter. [6804/05] dent single payment appeals committee. I am satisfied that the timescale provided for 83. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for submission of applications and the procedures Agriculture and Food if she has satisfied herself introduced for processing applications under with the force majeure procedure for the single force majeure or exceptional circumstances farm payment; and if she will make a statement regarding the establishment of entitlements under on the matter. [6800/05] the single payment scheme are comprehensive, Mary Coughlan: I propose to take Questions effective and fair. Nos. 73 and 83 together. My Department implemented The force Mr. Naughten: I presume the substantial majeure procedure for the single farm payment number of farmers who have not yet received scheme in accordance with the provisions of notification of the single farm payment can still Article 40 of Council Regulation (EC) No. apply for the force majeure payment when they 1782/2003. Eligible applicants under this measure eventually get the single farm payment notifi- can have their entitlements based on an average cation. Despite that such a process is in place, of one or two years during the reference period there appears to be a huge variation throughout — 2000, 2001 and 2002 — or the alternative refer- the country in terms of success rates. For ence period — 1997, 1998 and 1999. If the revised example, the lowest success rates are in the Mini- average for applicants eligible on the grounds of ster’s county, Kerry and Laois—— force majeure or exceptional circumstances is less than the average for the three years of the refer- Mary Coughlan: No political interference ence period, as happens in some cases, the appli- there, Deputy. cant in question retains the higher three-year average. In such cases, it would be detrimental Mr. Naughten: ——compared with a success to the applicant to benefit from the provisions of rate in my own county of almost 26%, 25% in Article 40. Sligo and 32% in Meath. Those were the figures To give farmers ample opportunity to avail available to me at the time; I am sure they have themselves of this measure, my Department changed since. In general, the majority of cases introduced a scheme in December 2003 for the have been unsuccessful. Is it not the case also that 1399 Other 2 March 2005. Questions 1400

[Mr. Naughten.] the educational requirements from a young farm- almost 99% of the cases that were appealed were er’s perspective but, as the Deputy knows, the unsuccessful, yet we still have this variation pull is between farming organisations that only throughout the country, which gives rise to ques- wish to support those in full-time farming and the tions about the fairness of the system? Will the many part-time farmers who we want to support. Minister comment on that? With regard to installation aid, it would not be a force majeure case because such cases are mainly Mary Coughlan: I evaluated that because it is based on illness and death. something I heard from my own back bench colleagues. The Deputy is talking about a 22% suc- Mr. Timmins: The Minister said that some cess rate overall. The number of cases received at people would not have a hope in hell of getting the time was 15,288, nearly all of which have been aid because they have no attachment to the land processed. The number of successful applicants but does she agree that a small number of people was 3,331. When independent appeals took place, never claimed any type of payment and now, 10% were found in favour of the applicant. through no fault of theirs in terms of the farming A number of issues arise. The regulation is practices they adopted, their land has devalued quite strict and there are only a number of categ- dramatically as a result of this new policy? Has ories in which one can be considered — death the Minister considered that small group of of a farmer, long-term professional incapacity, a people and, if not, will she consider assisting them natural disaster, accidental destruction of live- in some manner? Many widows have lost out stock, buildings and holdings or an episodic dis- dramatically and, when the land comes up for ease affecting all or part of a farmer’s livestock. rent, its value will be reduced dramatically in the The regulation is fairly restrictive. People who year ahead. have a genuine need have the opportunity to appeal. I appreciate that not everyone will get Mary Coughlan: I was being facetious when I through the scheme. People who have not been spoke earlier, although some people will chance dealt with so far still have an opportunity to go their arm like anybody else. There are people through the system. There would be those also, who have particular reasons for not applying, as the Deputy is aware, who would not have a including widows and so on, and it may be con- hope in hell of getting through the system. They sidered within the force majeure process, perhaps have as much attachment to the land as the man under the national reserve. I am trying not to go on the moon but they will still try to get their beyond the 3% threshold because that means that single farm payment. That is to the detriment of whoever gets their entitlements will have to give genuine applicants because a considerable back to the national reserve a certain amount of amount of resources were required to evaluate entitlements, and none of us would like to face those applications. My Department officials are the farming fraternity if that were the case. Hav- doing their utmost to be as fair as possible in the ing said that, there are particular hardship cases confines of the articles and terms and conditions and we try to do our utmost, on an individual to which they have to adhere. basis, to determine if something can be done for them. There are those who just never bothered to Mr. J. Breen: A part-time farmer who has apply. They may have had their own reasons for applied for installation aid cannot get time off that. We may have a situation where some people from his employer to go through the processes will not take up their entitlements. They will involved. Could that farmer apply under the force revert back in that case. majeure procedure to have his installation aid We are restricted by the article and the terms restored without doing the examination or will and conditions but if the Deputy is aware of a the Department consider putting a mechanism in particular case involving hardship, we will try to place to help people like that gentleman and sev- support those people if it is at all possible. I eral others who cannot get time off from their cannot guarantee anything because the person employers? Perhaps they could do the course on had to be in the scheme at the time of the refer- an evening or weekend. ence years. We went back to the 1980s on the basis of destocking, particularly on the sheep side Mary Coughlan: That is a different issue of which the Deputy will be aware. We have because it is does not concern entitlement. The looked at permutations and the division by one, Deputy is talking about access to a specific instal- two and three as to what can be done, but if the lation aid which supports young farmers who Deputy wants a particular case examined or if he want to get into farming. It is like the case of has further information, we will try to facilitate somebody who took up the farm retirement those who are suffering hardship. scheme but now wants to go back to farming. There may be issues with regard to having the Mr. Crawford: Is the Minister satisfied that all opportunity to participate in education. those cases applied for under health reasons have The larger farming organisations would be of got a fair hearing? I have come across some cases the view that only those who participate in full- I understood would have come under the force time education should have that entitlement of majeure process for genuine health reasons but progressing to installation aid. We are evaluating were told they did not have a hope. They are 1401 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1402 appealing but it is depressing for somebody who cations refused for the U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta suffers from depression not to have their situation election. taken into account. The matters raised by Deputies Cowley, Naughten, McCormack and Breeda Moynihan- Acting Chairman: We must move on to Ques- Cronin have been selected for discussion. tion No. 74. Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: Second Stage Mr. Crawford: Does the Minister not want to (Resumed). reply? Question again proposed: “That the Bill be Acting Chairman: I do not recollect a question now read a Second Time.” being asked but the Minister may reply if she wishes. Mr. Connolly: I referred earlier to it being a case of “a stitch in time”, in medical terms, in Mary Coughlan: Hardship issues are not con- respect of people visiting their GPs. Those with sidered within the European Commission or the medical cards can receive treatment at the appro- Union. We try to facilitate hardship issues as best priate time rather than being obliged to do with- we can. As much medical information as possible out it. The fear of losing their medical cards is a must be put forward and it must be such that the major disincentive for these people to take up person is not physically in a position to carry out even low paid employment and their relationship a farming enterprise within the reference year. with poverty is thus maintained. That is the problem. Someone could break a leg The number of full medical cardholders has but still be able to farm. dropped dramatically from 38.3% of the popu- All of us in the farming fraternity must address lation in 1983 to 25.7%. This decrease occurred the issue of depression. Unfortunately, despite the target in the programme for Govern- depression is very difficult to deal with from a ment to have 200,000 new medical cards. The GP- clinical point of view but if additional information only medical card will merely be a substitute for from a psychiatrist were part of the appeals pro- the real thing and I do not know whether the cess, I would hope that would support the appli- same service will be provided to those who pos- cant. I appreciate that from a clinical viewpoint it sess such cards. These medical cards should, is very difficult to determine whether depression however, at least cover prescription costs or a sig- would restrict a person, within the reference nificant proportion thereof. The payment of \85 years, in their farming practice. per month for medicine represents a major outlay for those on low or even reasonably high incomes. Adjournment Debate Matters. The timescale relating to the introduction- Acting Chairman: I wish to advise the House implementation of GP-only medical cards is a of the following matters in respect of which notice matter which requires urgent attention. A has been given under Standing Order 21 and the number of community welfare officers do not name of the Member in each case: (1) Deputy know what is happening in respect of these cards. Pat Breen — to ask the Minister to explain the The fact that no monetary guidelines have been effective closure of St. Michael’s pre-school in issued in respect of the cards is making life diffi- Ennis to children under seven with special needs; cult for everyone involved, particularly people (2) Deputy Healy — the need for the Minister to living on the fringes. Not everyone in receipt of approve the relocation of the Tipperary Institute social welfare payments qualifies for a medical from its current location to the Watson Estate, card. Income guidelines have not kept pace with Ballingarrane, Clonmel; (3) Deputy Breeda Moy- social welfare increases and this has given rise to nihan-Cronin — the proposed removal of staffing certain problems. The guidelines should at least grants for community child care facilities in have been index linked. There should be no ques- County Kerry; (4) Deputy Lynch — the warnings tion that people in receipt of social welfare pay- from the IMO that Cork city’s refuse crisis has ments should not be entitled to a medical card. become a health time bomb; (5) Deputy Many people who previously qualified for full Naughten — the need for the Minister to review medical cards will no longer qualify. No one can the approval of the National Roads Authority claim that people living on social welfare pay- design manual for roads and bridges under the ments are living in luxury. As stated earlier, there Roads Act 1993; (6) Deputy Cowley — if the should be a moratorium on the withdrawal of Minister will carry out an independent quantified medical cards until the doctor-only cards are risk assessment on the upstream pipeline at the introduced. Corrib gas field pipeline; (7) Deputy Enright — Arising from the Supreme Court judgment on to ask the Minister if he is aware of the change the controversial Health (Amendment) (No. 2) of use of a power station from the combustion of Bill 2004, this legislation makes provision for the peat to the combustion of meat and bonemeal in imposition of charges on elderly people in nursing Edenderry, County Offaly; and (8) Deputy homes and in full-time care. A great deal of McCormack — the serious matter of the number money was taken illegally from people in the past of applicants for postal votes who had their appli- and one presumes this will have to be repaid to 1403 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1404

[Mr. Connolly.] full medical cards. These cards represent a way to them. It must be recognised that money taken in undermine the entire medical card system. The 1976 has lost its purchasing power and there is no promise relating to medical cards that was made point returning it to people now. In that context during the general election campaign should be and if we use the formula used by health boards, kept. People who suffer from conditions such as namely, the addition of compound interest at a asthma should be entitled to full medical cards. rate of £7 per annum, we will discover that a pound taken in 1976 is now worth in excess of \9. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: This is a dual purpose Bill. First, it gives effect to those parts of the Mr. Healy: I am surprised by the fact that a Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004 that were Minister of State has been charged with taking found to be constitutional by the Supreme Court the Bill. It is inappropriate that this should be the and, second, it introduces the GP-only medical case. The Tańaiste should be present for the card announced by the Government last Nov- debate on a Bill of this magnitude and ember. These are two distinct and separate importance. matters and I must question their inclusion in one Bill. I also question the rush to enact the first part CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The Minister of State of the legislation in the absence of clarification on opposite is from the Department of Agriculture how those people wrongly charged by the State and Food. for long-term residential care are to be reimbursed. Mr. Healy: I intend no disrespect to the Mini- The Government is moving swiftly to ensure ster of State at the Department of Agriculture that those inpatients receiving long-stay care who and Food, but the senior Minister at the Depart- can be charged following the Supreme Court ment of Health and Children should be present judgment will be charged as soon as for the debate. It is a reflection on the House and 4 o’clock possible. There is no similar rush to on the public in general that neither the Tańaiste repay those unlawfully charged over nor any of her Ministers of State is present. a period of many years. In the memorandum to The Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004, the Bill, the estimated cost of the loss of income which was introduced before Christmas, was to the State since 9 December 2004, when rushed legislation. Such legislation is almost charging was stopped, is \2 million per week. always bad. The Bill before us is also being Where is the estimate for what those mostly eld- rushed through the House and will be the subject erly and infirm people are owed by the State? of a guillotine at 1.30 p.m. tomorrow. Members We have been informed that a Cabinet sub- will not have had an opportunity to discuss it in committee has been formed to decide on the the time available. scheme of reimbursement. However, I detected a I wish to put a direct question to the Tańaiste distinct lack of urgency on the part of the in respect of private nursing homes. Has she Government. It is certainly in contrast to the swift obtained legal advice on the position of private production of this Bill. This is all the more patients in private nursing homes? Did she unacceptable, given that we now know about the request such advice and has she received it? If extent of the knowledge within the Department she has not requested it, will she please do so and of Health and Children and successive Govern- communicate the details of it to Members when ments about illegal charging of long-stay patients she receives it? A serious legal issue has arisen in over many years. The system knew people were respect of private patients in private nursing being wrongly charged but did nothing to stop it. homes in terms of whether they are covered in Since this issue came to light there has been wide- the same way as medical card holders in public spread concern and confusion among the families hospitals and nursing homes are covered. I meet of people in long-stay residential care. Following people on a daily basis who have been forced to the Supreme Court judgment, they are still none enter private nursing homes — they are paid a the wiser about the next steps to be taken and the subvention to facilitate this — because when they implications for their personal circumstances. We applied, through their relevant health board or learned this week that the Health Service Execu- through the Health Service Executive for places tive had allocated only six staff members to the in public hospitals or nursing homes no such dedicated helpline. An additional four staff has places were available. These patients are entitled made no appreciable difference as long delays in to full coverage in the homes to which I refer. answering calls are still experienced. I tried that The Tańaiste should either outline the advice she line before coming into the House for the recom- has received in respect of that matter or seek such mencement of this debate and I had to hang up advice and pass it on to Members. in total frustration after waiting for a long period. As regards medical cards, this is another issue My fellow Sinn Feín Deputies and I have had on which the Government has reneged. In the many inquiries to our offices on this matter. I pre- most recent general election we were promised sume other Deputies have been contacted by that 200,000 full medical cards would be pro- many people seeking information, and there is vided. That promise has not been kept. I predict none. There is a dearth of information. The that in a short number of years there will be more State’s response to date has been disgraceful. The “yellow pack” or doctor-only medical cards than Government must start to make decisions and get 1405 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1406 the information out to the general public. Above are just above the medical card income guidelines all, it must repay all those entitled to repayment. and who must take regular medication. A year I now turn to the second part of the Bill, the ago they had to pay \70 a month before they doctor-only medical card. What has become were entitled to a refund under the drugs pay- known as the “yellow pack” medical card ments scheme. After two rises in the threshold appeared out of the blue last year. Whether it was over the past 12 months, they must now pay \85 inspired by the blue sky over Inchydoney is any- per month. For people on low incomes, especially body’s guess. There was no indication previously those dependent on ongoing medication for their that the Government would take this route. Dur- very lives, this is a disgraceful rise. ing the 2002 general election campaign, the This Bill maintains the myth that entitlement Fianna Faíl party promised to provide a further to a medical card is based on undue hardship. The 200,000 people with medical cards. It is often for- reality is that the entitlement is based on income gotten that the PDs made a similar promise when guidelines drawn up by the Minister and her its manifesto in 2002 ensured eligibility criteria Department within the constraints set by the would at least keep pace with movement in Minister for Finance in the annual Estimates. income. Not only have the promises of both coali- Only in the most exceptional circumstances will tion partners not been fulfilled, but the situation people above those income guidelines be con- has gone into reverse. There are now 64,478 sidered for a medical card, no matter how much fewer people with medical cards than when those undue hardship they and their dependents experi- promises were made in 2002. There are 109,767 ence. All Deputies, without exception, will have fewer people with medical cards than in 1997 had experience of representing people in such cir- when the current coalition came into Govern- cumstances who have been denied medical cards. ment. It gets worse, however. In January this year This Bill introduces a further euphemism. It 6,296 people lost their qualification for medical states doctor-only cards will go to people for cards. The figure for the month before was 2,068, whom payment of GP fees would be “unduly bur- so since Deputy Harney took over as Minister for densome”. Again the reality is dictated by the Health and Children well over 8,000 further income guidelines and not by the individual cir- people have lost their medical cards. Where does cumstances of each applicant, no matter how this leave the Minister’s estimate that in the heavy the burden they may carry. region of 200,000 should qualify for the doctor- This Bill in both its parts, adds another rickety only medical card? extension to a ramshackle, ill-planned, inequi- It is a convenient figure for the Government, table and inefficient health service. It comes at a which has been haunted since 2002 by its own time when the Minister, Deputy Harney, is acce- extravagant promises. Does the figure have any lerating the development of private medicine and meaning? The reality is that many of these cards giving favoured treatment to the private health will go to people who were previously entitled to business. The accident and emergency crisis con- full medical cards but who lost them because their tinues in all our hospitals. Local hospitals are incomes rose above the disgracefully low level of being denuded of services, including those in my the income guidelines. own constituency. The development of primary care, supposedly the cornerstone of the Govern- On budget day, I tabled a Daíl question to the ment’s health strategy, has been put on the long Minister for Health and Children, asking the finger. approximate cost of the doctor-only card com- The Government may be rushing this Bill pared to full medical card. She stated that the through in time for the by-elections. The Minister doctor-only card would cost approximately \250 denied there was any connection when I asked per year while the annual cost of the full medical \ her this question about a week ago. However, I card is 1,000. Both in terms of the numbers do not believe the good people of Meath or qualifying and the value of the new card, it is Kildare will be fooled. clear that Government’s claim of generosity is by no means all that it would like the public to Mr. O’Connor: I am tempted to say to Deputy believe. We also have to take into consideration O´ Caolaín that it might do his party the world of the Government’s hiking of hospital charges and good to visit that place of pilgrimage in Cork. medicine costs to see that it is giving with one They might take their scriptwriters too, and it hand and taking away with the other. While the might change their attitude. extension of free GP services is welcome, as far To be serious, I have been listening carefully to as it goes — how far remains to be seen — the the debate. I listened in particular to the Minister Government cannot fool people into thinking of State this morning. There has been some talk they are getting the full value of the medical card. as to what Minister should have been here and I They will still bear the heavy cost of medicines, will not get involved in that. However, I have which together with hospital charges, represent great admiration for the work of the Minister of three-quarters of the value of the real medical State at the Department of Health and Children, card. Deputy Seań Power, and what he does in the This Government has been responsible for a Department. He blazes a trail struck for him by succession of steep rises in the costs of medicine. Deputy Callely, who certainly impressed greatly Those who fare worst are people whose incomes as regards services for the elderly, in the short 1407 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1408

[Mr. O’Connor.] 1996 census indicate that in 1996, 11.5% of the time he was at the Department. Deputy Seań Irish population was over 65. Forecasts suggest Power’s speech this morning was measured, that 18% to 21 % of the population will be aged particularly as regards services for all the people. over 65 by 2031. The Government is aware of this He also made the point, in fairness, about the trend and addressed some of these issues in the doctor-only medical cards. The term “yellow health strategy, Quality and Fairness- A Health pack” has a good soundbite, and perhaps that is System for You, published in 2001. The Govern- all right, but we should be careful about upsetting ment is committed to developing services for people who wish to qualify for such medical older people, both residential and community cards. Perhaps we should find a different phrase. based, to meet the needs of our growing older The occasional soundbite is all right, but let us population. We know there are economic and fin- remember the Government is trying to create a ancial consequences of people living longer. Each situation whereby people on lower incomes generation of people in their active years must qualify. accept responsibility towards the support of the As a Government backbencher I support the elderly. view that we should help those who are in need The Government’s commitment to the of medical cards. Since I have picked on Deputy development of a comprehensive range of ser- O´ Caolaín I will give some credit to Deputy vices for older people can clearly be demon- Crowe who has made the point, as I often have, strated by outlining the resources made available that the best way to get people out of the poverty in recent years for service developments. In trap is through employment. Many people in my excess of \287 million in additional funding was constituency often make the point that where provided for health services for older people they are unemployed, receiving different assist- between 1997 and 2004. This demonstrates the ance benefits and want to go to work or into full- Government’s ongoing commitment to improving time education, it is often difficult to make such services for our older population. In 2005, a a decision because they must do it in the know- further \15.228 million in additional revenue ledge that they will lose benefits. There is often funding was allocated to services for older people. an issue with medical cards, although the situa- This funding is being used for a variety of ser- tion has improved a little in recent years. vices, including the nursing home subvention I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak scheme, the home care grant scheme, home help on issues related to the provision of services for service, elder abuse programmes and support for older people and to support what the Govern- voluntary organisations. Since 1993 there has ment is doing in that regard. I speak as a rep- been an unprecedented level of investment in the resentative of the constituency of Dublin South- nursing home subvention scheme. A total of \5 West where there is a young population, partic- million was allocated for the scheme when it was ularly in Tallaght, but also in Firhouse, introduced in 1993. The total expenditure on the Templeogue, Greenhills and Brittas. There are scheme in 2005 will be \120 million. also many elderly people in those communities In line with a Government decision, an expen- and I am always happy to support the groups that diture review of the nursing home subvention look after them. The significant progress which scheme was undertaken by the Department of has been made in the growth of funding available Health and Children in association with the for this sector is indicative of the Government’s Department of Finance. The review was carried commitment to the ongoing development of out by Professor Eamon O’Shea and the objec- health funded services for older people. tives of the review were to examine the objectives One of the great achievements of western of the 1993 nursing home subvention scheme and societies in the 20th century has been the increase the extent to which they remained valid, to assess in life expectancy. As the standard of living for the service delivered and to establish what scope, the young and middle aged in this country has if any, existed for achieving the programme risen, so the quality of life of successive gener- objectives by other more efficient and effective ations is improving. Modern medicine, social poli- means. Professor O’Shea’s report, Review of the cies, political will and community enterprise Nursing Home Subvention Scheme, was launched mean that more people live longer and more in June 2003 simultaneously with the Mercer fulfilling lives. The majority of older people are report, Study on the Future Financing of Long- healthy and fit and hold good positive attitudes. Term Care in Ireland, which was commissioned I recently spoke to a gentleman in my clinic who by the Department of Social and Family Affairs. let slip that he was aged 81. I was astonished and Community supports are vital to maintain it is great to see that kind of attitude in our older people in their homes for as long as poss- elderly. ible. Long-stay nursing care should only be a last It is interesting to note that there are more option in care planning for older people, with the than 60 million people in the European Union community supports acting as a real support for who are aged 60 and over. Figures from the Cen- older people who wish to live in dignity and inde- tral Statistics Office collated from the results of pendence in their community. Numerous studies the census suggest that the average age of the have highlighted that older people would prefer population is increasing. Projections based on the to remain living at home rather than going into 1409 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1410 long-stay care. The Government is committed to lems. In addition, the strategy proposed the pro- developing the various community and home sup- vision of an extra 800 extended care community port schemes. The total expenditure on the home nursing unit places over a seven-year period that help service in 2005 will be \118.75 million. I would include the provision of long-term care would like to be unusually parochial and mention beds for people with dementia. my support—— Under the national development plan, capital funding of over \253 million is being made avail- Ms O. Mitchell: Unusually. able for the provision of services for older people in the period 2000 to 2006. On a national basis, Mr. O’Connor: Yes, unusually. this will enable a comprehensive infrastructure of community nursing units and day care facilities to Mr. F. McGrath: Here we go. be put in place as well as the refurbishment of existing extended care facilities and the replace- Mr. O’Connor: I want to mention my support ment of older unsuitable accommodation. The for the Tallaght home help services which provide House will recall that I mentioned the elder abuse great service. If I do not tell the House where I programme. The publication of the report, Pro- am from, the Deputies will not know so I have to tecting Our Future, in late 2002 was a momentous remind them. occasion for the elderly in this country. They were given a blueprint to deal with the scourge Mr. F. McGrath: The Deputy should not forget of elder abuse and a pledge that this blueprint to mention Marino as well. would be implemented. Up to recently, there was a feeling that elder abuse did not exist in this Mr. O’Connor: I mentioned those places in the country, but the report confirms that there is a Deputy’s absence. I am happy to record my problem, the extent and nature of which remains strong support for the Tallaght home help service to be identified. which is part of the Tallaght welfare society. By defining elder abuse and recommending The Health Service Executive areas have pil- implementation of structures to deal with sus- oted home care grant schemes as an alternative pected cases, the report will, I hope, give older to long-term residential care to assist older people who feel they are the victims of it the con- people living at home in the community. Older fidence to report their anxieties, as appropriate, people who are discharged from the acute to social workers, public health nurses, gardaı´, hospital system, as well as those living in the com- professionals or care workers. While the report is munity, are targeted under these schemes. In the the first attempt to deal with elder abuse, it is still HSE eastern regional area, people have been dis- an important one. As abuse can come in many charged from acute hospitals under the SIań shapes and forms, there is need to make the gen- Abhaile and Home First pilot projects. In the eral public more aware of the problem. It is even HSE southern area, a similar project, Cu´ ram, has more important to target relevant service pro- been piloted. The Department of Health and viders to make them aware of the steps taken to Children has been working with the HSE to respond to elder abuse and the procedures that develop a national home care grant scheme. A draft of the scheme is being finalised by the HSE will be available to deal with it. I hope greater for presentation to the Department. Funding of awareness of the problem will lead to lessening \2 million has been allocated to the HSE in 2005 of its incidence. to introduce the scheme. As recommended in the report, a national It is acknowledged that there is insufficient implementation group has been established. A provision of public long-term care beds to cater number of the report’s recommendations are for the growing elderly population with a result- based on experience gained from two pilot pro- ant over-reliance on the private nursing home jects. Despite the absence of major publicity, suf- sector. I served on the Eastern Regional Health ficiently serious and numerous cases have come Authority along with Deputy Mitchell and other to light to justify the process. The Department of colleagues and am brave enough to lament its Health and Children is determined to press ahead passing. I know it might get me into trouble in with gradual implementation of the report. Fund- \ some quarters but I am not that happy about its ing of 800,000 was provided in 2003 to com- passing. The Eastern Regional Health Authority mence implementation of the elder abuse prog- and the Southern Area Health Board are partic- ramme. Last year, an additional \750,000 was ularly affected because of a lack of public long- allocated to each health board area to ensure the term care beds. This was acknowledged when the continued implementation of the programme, Department of Health and Children was prepar- including the appointment of case workers. An ing the health strategy and there is a commitment additional \900,000 has been allocated for 2005. in the strategy to provide 1,370 additional assess- I concur with the broad thrust of the report, ment and rehabilitation beds, 600 additional day which recommends placing the response to elder hospital beds and facilities encompassing special- abuse in the wider context of health and social ist areas such as treatment for falls and osteop- care services for older people. As the number of orosis, fracture prevention, Parkinson’s disease, older people rises, we should not forget that they stroke prevention, heart failure and other prob- have been instrumental in building the healthy 1411 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1412

[Mr. O’Connor.] Mr. F. McGrath: I am simply addressing the State we enjoy today. Their contribution to the statistics. economy is widely acknowledged and the Government is fully committed to improving all Mr. O’Connor: No one has ever said that being aspects of their lives by focusing on issues that in Government was easy. One continues to do the affect their well-being. The cornerstone of the job to the best of one’s ability and waits for the Government’s health policy is to keep older results. While I do not believe polls any more people living in their own homes for as long as than anybody else, I believe the public is of the possible. To remain at home has been shown in opinion that the Government is on the right research as the preferred choice of older people. track. All Members will have seen this finding corrobor- ated through their constituency work. Ms O. Mitchell: They will pay the bill. Implementation of the recommendations outlined in the report will help to ensure the obser- Mr. F. McGrath: The Deputy should watch vation of the fundamental right of older people Kildare. to be treated with respect in their twilight years. An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy, without The starting point for making the changes called interruption. for in the report may well involve each of us reflecting on our attitudes to older people. We Mr. O’Connor: Thank you, a Cheann Comh- must begin to question our attitude to older airle, for protecting me. The Deputies should people to satisfy ourselves that we do not harbour read the newspapers I read. I walk the streets of the in-built negative feelings towards them, which Tallaght, Greenhills, Templeogue, Firhouse and can often be the source of unintentional abuse. Brittas where people tell me what I presume they We must proceed on a journey during which we tell the Members opposite. I listen to what they absorb much and learn to cope with what may be say. When they are unhappy, I try to respond, considerable fall-out. but when they express satisfaction, I do not go In November 2004, the Tańaiste announced overboard about it. I am spending a little time additional funding of \70 million to implement a outside Tallaght knocking on doors in Kildare ten-point action plan to improve delivery of where I do not get the sense that people are very emergency services. The Tańaiste met senior unhappy either. management of the Health Service Executive with which the Department of Health and Chil- Mr. F. McGrath: Did the Deputy say he was dren is working closely to ensure early implemen- in Kildare? tation of the plan. The measures outlined in the plan include transfer of 100 high-dependency Mr. O’Connor: They were well served by their patients to suitable private nursing home care, last Fianna Faíl Deputy and they will be very well negotiation with the private sector to meet the served by their next one. Deputy Finian McGrath needs of 500 people annually for intermediate should travel to Kildare. It is a good exercise. care of up to six weeks and the expansion of home-care packages to support an additional 500 Mr. F. McGrath: I have been down there older people at home. Funding of \16.8 million many times. to the former Eastern Regional Health Authority will result in more than 600 patients being dis- Mr. O’Connor: He should knock on a few charged to more appropriate settings. A total of doors and listen to what people have to say to \5 million was provided to the former Southern him. Health Board under the delayed-discharges initiative 2003-04 to facilitate the discharge of Ms O. Mitchell: If only we had the back of a patients from the acute hospital system. lorry for him. It will be clear to the House from my contri- Mr. O’Connor: I would have mentioned the bution that the Progressive Democrats Party and following earlier, but I was trying to avoid being Fianna Faíl have an undeniable commitment to too parochial. I have been particularly pleased by older people. While we acknowledge the need to significant recent developments in the care of the avoid complacency about the continuing develop- elderly in the Tallaght area. There was no nursing ment of services to meet growing demand, the home in the area for a long time, but one has Government and its immediate predecessor can been operating at Kiltipper Woods for several be proud of their record to date. We are aware months. It is a tremendous facility, the work of that we must continue with our efforts. which I support strongly. While the Ceann Comhairle would not encour- Mr. F. McGrath: There are still people on age me to tell a story, I often think of my late trolleys. uncle who died at 93 a few years ago in the context of discussions of care for the elderly. As I Mr. O’Connor: Is the Deputy making a major listened to the Minister of State, Deputy Seań speech or simply trying to upset me? Power, discuss the way the Government has 1413 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1414 developed services, I remembered my uncle Mick basically have not got a clue. That is the reality. calling me to come close for him to tell me that No matter what they say about it being \500 mill- while the home he was in was great and he was ion or \2 billion depending on how far back one well fed, the only problem was that it was full of goes, the reality is that they do not know. How old people. Perhaps that sums up the way we could they possibly know? The information may should treat and care for the elderly. be there somewhere, but it seems utterly irre- I appreciate fully the measure of the contri- trievable. One cannot retrieve any kind of infor- bution older people continue to make to society. mation regarding the health service. When the Older people have a wealth of experience that Department introduced medical cards for the can be harnessed and embraced for the good of over-70s, it could not tell how many people over the country and our communities. the age of 70 were alive. How could it possibly know the number who have died over the past 30 Ms O. Mitchell: I mean no disrespect to the years, as well as those alive today? Minister of State, Deputy de Valera, but it is The Tańaiste has promised a Supplementary absolutely outrageous that the Minister for Estimate later in the year to pay for this mess. Health and Children is not present. There is The Minister of State can pass the message on to nothing more important on the Tańaiste’s agenda her that it may be the first Estimate to pay for than this Bill. Despite having got it wrong once, this, but it will not be the last. It will be years she does not appear to care that she might get it before we know how much this will cost. Not only wrong again. There is nothing more important for do we not know the numbers involved or how far her to do than to attend to listen to this debate. back we will have to go in repaying people, we When the Bill was before the Supreme Court, her also do not know whether repayments will reflect senior counsel argued on her behalf that it would the value of the charges at the time they were be catastrophic for the State if the charges were levied or the current value. found retrospectively to be illegal. While it was The situation is also not clear with regard to found that the charges were illegal and that the people who had medical cards or partial eligibility money must be repaid, the Tańaiste has not both- and could not get into public beds. Several people ered to come to the House to deal with the catas- have raised this appalling matter. Ignoring the trophe. We should ask what signal her failure to problem will not solve it because it will keep com- attend sends to taxpayers and the people affected ing up and the Government will have to face up by the court’s decision. to it. Legally the State must repay charges paid Despite the fact that the Tańaiste is not for those in public beds. If there is one group with present, I welcome the opportunity to speak on a genuine grievance, it is those forced into private the legislation as I did not have a chance to dis- nursing homes despite, in many cases, having cuss the failed Bill which passed through the medical cards and circumstances which entitled House before Christmas. It is small wonder that them to some form of help in terms of getting the Bill was struck down by the Supreme Court into a State-run home or a public bed in a private as we all know rushed legislation is never sound. nursing home. These people were on low Even if it does not constitute an outrageous incomes, and many were pauperised and spent attempt to legalise a practice retrospectively, their entire savings paying for a nursing home. rushed legislation is of no use. I do not know if They sold their homes and once that was gone the Tańaiste was motivated by naivety, poor advice or absolute desperation in attempting to their children had to take over payments at the legalise charges retrospectively, but her approach very time they were trying to raise their own was doomed to failure. The Supreme Court has families and had big demands on their resources. clarified the position and restitution must be paid. The Minister must deal with these people in a fair While the matter was before the court, a rush and open manner and reimburse them. of blood to the head prompted another poor and Reimbursement must not be made dependent ill-considered decision to pay everyone affected on whether people can produce a written appli- \2,000. At this stage she must be learning, albeit, cation form for a public bed, as has been sug- the hard way, to be very wary of advice from the gested. The Minister, and any public representa- Department, because good advice is based on tive who has had any dealings with the elderly, good information. Despite worthy people in the will be aware that the allocation of nursing beds Department and the best of intentions, the reality was, at best, ad hoc, and probably in most cases is that they do not have good information. They absolutely chaotic. There was no formal system only have a very tenuous grasp of what is really of application and no consistency of application, happening on the ground, which is why, year after either geographically or over time. Clients in pre- year, budgets over-run in hospitals and health cisely the same financial circumstances in differ- boards and time bombs continue to go off in the ent health board areas were dealt with in a com- health service yet nobody ever seems to see pletely different manner simply because some them coming. areas had larger numbers of public beds than I asked several parliamentary questions last others. For example, I read that Donegal had a week to try to elicit the exact extent of the State’s huge number of public nursing home beds rela- liability following the Supreme Court decision. tive to the population compared to a built-up area The answers were much as I expected in that they such as Dublin. 1415 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1416

[Ms O. Mitchell.] very much informed by the recognition of the In some cases, people were moved into a public growing cost of care of the elderly. The legality bed in order to vacate a bed in an acute hospital, of charges, their lack of consistency and clarity, where demand for beds was greater than in other the subventions and their inadequacy, the failure hospitals and a higher turnover was needed. This to increase the subventions, the implications for was done whether people could afford it or not, the public purse of the medical card for the over- and in many cases they could well afford a nurs- 70s and the entitlement to nursing homes were ing home bed. Sometimes the situation depended all constant topics of discussion among everybody on the time of the budgetary year, in that one had involved in the health services. a better chance of getting a contract bed in On top of all that came the Ombudsman’s January than in December when health board report and the subsequent debate about the dis- budgets were exhausted. There was no consist- tinction between entitlement and eligibility, ency, application forms or clarity surrounding the behind which the Government is still hiding. matter. Over the years, many people parted with There was then a promise in the health strategy far greater sums of money than the 80% of old of legislation to clarify the distinction between age pensions about which we are now speaking. eligibility and entitlement which we still do not If they are not included in at least the same level have. It was not faced up to because this problem of compensation the Tańaiste can look forward would have come to light. It is inconceivable that to spending much more time in the courts dealing the then Minister for Health and Children, in a with that problem. period of intense debate surrounding the issue of There are estimates regarding the amount that the cost of care for the elderly, somehow never is owed, but it is only the tip of the iceberg. The heard a hint that the charges for nursing homes actual exposure of the taxpayer is completely had a questionable legal basis. Without a doubt, unknown, which is why the Tańaiste should be he had more than a hint, as had his Department. here listening to this. Deputy O’Connor gave us He and the Department undoubtedly reached a a stream of consciousness which did not deal with very comfortable accommodation with each other this problem in any way. This is the biggest catas- which was a mutually beneficial arrangement. He trophe for the taxpayer and the elderly in many agreed not to rock their boat and they agreed not years, and it is being made to appear as a slight to rock his. I am not suggesting there was explicit little hiccup in the overall process of collusion, but there was definitely implicit col- Government. lusion. A decision was made to allow the position So far we have had no accountability. Nobody to drift and to go on indefinitely. It was not faced wants to sit up and say, “This is my fault.” No up to in 2001, 2002 and 2003, so the bill for the heads have rolled and no one has acknowledged any sense of responsibility. The taxpayer will just taxpayer increased. It suited the then Minister to have to pay up and shut up and that is the end of have a soft landing out of the Department and it. If a private sector company overcharged the perhaps the whole matter could be swept under public, we would be here jumping up and down the carpet until after a general election. If it was saying the company must repay moneys. If the not for the efforts of Deputies Kenny and Perry shareholders realised the kind of liability that had the matter would never have come to light. In been built up, they would have given the board short, the Tańaiste was dropped in it because of management their walking papers long ago. clearly she did not have her finger on the pulse Unfortunately, taxpayers are not in the happy of what was happening in the Department of position to do that but they will vent their anger Health and Children. The previous Minister for eventually. Health and Children, Deputy Martin, is off to We do not yet have the Travers report regard- Australia but I would say it is not far enough as ing how this situation happened and how it was far as the Tańaiste is concerned. allowed to drift for so long. I was a member of I support the notion of charges for health ser- the health board and, whatever happened before vices, including nursing homes. It is perfectly 2001, following the report of the Ombudsman reasonable that people should make a contri- and the introduction of the medical card for the bution towards nursing home accommodation over-70s, everybody with anything to do with the costs from their pensions. It is becoming clear health service knew there was a problem with that everybody is now eligible for a nursing home regard to charging. Since 2001 public representa- bed and the maximum they will have to pay is tives have been receiving queries about the legal- 80% of their pension. I would love to think that ity of charges. Health board members knew this is what will be facing me and everyone else, but was a potential problem and it was discussed in that was never envisaged when medical cards and between health boards and the Department. were introduced for the over-70s. It was never It is unbelievable that the Minister did not know budgeted for and it is certainly not affordable about it. If she did not know, then the previous without a major change in our tax system. We are Minister, Deputy Martin, was even more not talking about small Supplementary Estimates; removed from reality than I thought at time. It it is a major change in the fiscal system, if that was the topic of conversation. Even the previous can be afforded. That provision is not being faced Minister’s much-vaunted reform programme was up to in this Bill. 1417 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1418

I can tell the Minister of State — I wish the public meetings, on health boards and on the Tańaiste was here to listen — that this matter will Committee on Health and Children. Many eventually end up in the Supreme Court. interest groups, including GPs, have sought a Whether it intended to do so or not, the Govern- similar facility. The rationale behind the request ment has created a legitimate expectation among for GP-only medical cards was that in many the public that they are entitled to a nursing instances no treatment, other than a doctor’s home bed and that all they will have to pay is examination and reassurance, is required for 80% of their old age pension. Sooner or later that patients. The cost of visiting a GP was an fact will have to be recognised but it has not been inhibiting factor for some people. In some faced up to in the Bill. Unfortunately, that means instances, parents became sick from stress and the taxpayer will once again end up with a big bill anxiety over their concerns for their children’s when the matter is referred to the courts and ends health. GPs have made the case that often a sim- up in the Supreme Court. It is a difficult nettle to ple examination can reassure a patient and if grasp but it must be dealt with, otherwise it will further treatment is necessary they can point be allowed to drift. them in the right direction. People can reasonable say they do not need to The worst possible form of politics is for party make provision for the future through savings as spokespersons to try to denigrate this positive they are all entitled to a nursing home bed. The and constructive move by labelling these cards as queuing system for acute hospital beds that “yellow pack”, thus suggesting that they are of operated in the past will not work in this case. little or no benefit. The latest attempt in this One can only go so far in arguing about the disregard was made by our friend in Sinn Feín, tinction between eligibility and entitlement. The Deputy O´ Caolaín. He said that others referred previous Minister for Health and Children prom- to the cards as “yellow packs”, but that was just ised to clarify that legislative aspect, but the clari- adding the same tag to them. Not only is this the fication has not been made. It must be clarified, worst possible type of politics but it is also pat- however, otherwise we will end up forever in the ently untrue to say the GP-only cards are of no courts with a taxpayers’ bill exceeding the appal- benefit to anyone. Some \60 million will be ling vista we already face with retrospective pay- invested in the scheme this year to the benefit of ments of God knows how much. At the same 200,000 people. Apart from any other aspect, that time, services will have to be reduced across all is proof of the benefits involved. health programmes. The scheme will apply to those who are mar- This position is truly catastrophic, as was ginally above the current eligibility limits for argued in the Supreme Court, for the elderly and medical cards. We have been seeking a re-exam- the taxpayer. We are still burying our heads in ination of the situation to target that group and the sand as regards what future provision is this is now being done. It would be almost required to accommodate the elderly in nursing impossible to draw up a scheme to provide homes. There is a retrospective difficulty but we 200,000 extra medical cards for full eligibility are building up an even bigger one for the future. because, as we all know, the cost of drugs is open- ended. Unfortunately, in the past, we found that Mr. Dennehy: I welcome the opportunity to in many cases there was not much control in this contribute to the debate on this Bill. We are all area, even though we had concerns about it. We well aware of the reason this legislation is before the House; it is to create a legal framework to can quantify the cost of medical cards directly, apply a reasonable level of charge for the main- while we could not do so for the supply of drugs, although there is a separate scheme in place for tenance element of long-term, public residential \ care units and to create the legal process whereby that. The bottom line is that at least 60 million 200,000 extra people can be granted medical is being diverted from other areas to a targeted cards which will permit a doctor’s visit without group of people who are less well off. charge. Political honesty is required from those who I welcome the decision to extend the provision oppose this scheme. There is a clearly identifiable of medical cards. The number of additional cards group who require preferential treatment, includ- is estimated at 200,000. We have had an assurance ing targeted services. The GP-only card scheme that if the figure employed for eligibility — that goes some way towards meeting their needs. This is, 25% above the current level — does not lead kind of targeting includes the medical cards for to an extra 200,000 people obtaining cards, it will the over-70s scheme, which has been opposed by be modified to do so. A sum of \60 million has several speakers today. I campaigned to extend been allocated to that end. that scheme to include the over-65s so they would Over the years, many representatives of all par- automatically become eligible for a medical card. ties on health boards and elsewhere have Many of my colleagues, from all parties, who requested such facilities. Various descriptions served on the Southern Health Board were were used, including limited liability, but it basi- anxious to implement such a scheme. cally concerned the introduction of a second type I am intensely annoyed by the mischievous of medical card. That concept was strongly sup- comments that have been made about the pro- ported over the years. I have heard the request posed scheme, particularly when the commen- being made by members of all political parties at tators were among those who campaigned for 1419 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1420

[Mr. Dennehy.] Mr. Dennehy: It is a very big issue for the per- such a scheme over the years. Last night we heard son getting the medical card. a further outburst in that regard when one Deputy from the west, who shall remain name- Mr. Sherlock: It is a very small issue for weal- less, told us that we were giving medical cards to thy people. billionaires. I am sure they are running down to the doctor every day, card in hand, seeking some Mr. Dennehy: It is a very important issue, as service. Perhaps his previous claim that we gave Deputy Sherlock should know. cards to millionaires no longer made the headlines, so he changed the story a bit. An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Dennehy should When the occasion demands it the commen- be allowed to speak without interruption. tators can come in here and paint a vivid picture Deputies will have an opportunity to contribute. of the deprivation being suffered by people in certain circumstances. They can make certain Mr. Dennehy: Deputy Sherlock’s party was on cases in an almost tearful manner. In spite of that, our side for a long time until we granted the cards if they hold clinics, they know that some of the and then the party voted against us in the House. greatest cases of hardship was among elderly I believe the IMO is in favour of this scheme. I people without a medical card. These people am sure it will get the same rate as usual. were fortunate enough to have a small private I welcome the review of eligibility guidelines pension, but they were unfortunate in the sense for the full medical card. It is expected that at that it resulted in them being over the means least 30,000 additional people will qualify. The threshold for a medical card. Desperation was actual increase is 7.5% on the 2004 figure. Two evident among these elderly who were in need of of my former Southern Health Board colleagues health care. In some cases that might only are in the House. We had concerns about how amount to reassurance on their health concerns. the guidelines were reviewed every year by the This group was in need of particular help and eight CEOs because their aim was probably to attention and I am proud we gave them that keep the budget as low as possible. The increase assistance. was usually 2.5%, but this year it is 7.5%. That Much has been made of the scheme for two will be of considerable benefit. unfortunate reasons. First, the Departments A great deal of honest comment and input is involved could not supply a figure for the number required if we are to succeed in establishing a of people who would be eligible. In other words, proper system of care for the elderly. People are as Deputy Olivia Mitchell stated, they did not living longer and our elderly population is grow- know the number of people in the country aged ing as a percentage of the population, which may over 70. That was a fact. That should not change create financial problems. The fiasco of the fig- the concept of giving benefit where it was needed. ures supplied for the over-70s medical cards The second reason is that the IMO, the doctors’ should not prevent us looking at schemes like union, was able to hammer out a very good deal. this. It certainly got the last ounce out of that measure. Similarly the figures were incorrect in regard to I still believe that this was a good decision. the initiative which the Government took to I cannot imagine any millionaire or billionaire benefit old age pensioners living abroad, also going down to join a queue at a doctor’s surgery people who had built the State. Again, the figures to get the benefit of his or her medical card. That were all wrong but the concept was right. It was type of emotive statement should not be made. the correct thing to do. We must provide for a What happens is that because of the negative proper service in the future. We have never things that have been said, people will shy away achieved this to date. from worthwhile schemes. I ask that people be The reason we have so many private nursing more positive, especially when dealing with the homes is that the State has failed to provide suf- elderly. ficient long-term care beds. Something has been The critics love to refer to the elderly as the achieved in terms of acute hospital beds but we people who built the State. They say that we owe have never attempted to provide step-down facili- them and should give more to them. However, ties. We have never handled it properly and we we indulge in saying the opposite to attack the will have to look at that. Private nursing homes former Minister, Deputy Martin, or the Minister, have filled that void, admittedly at a cost. They Deputy Harney. have done a good job. We are facing a changed situation. The age profile of the population is Mr. Connaughton: The Deputy’s party was changing. The people who would have looked good at it. after family members in the home are no longer there. People are now going out to work who pre- Mr. Dennehy: They were great people when viously would have stayed at home. Many other they were building the State but they are not so factors also come into play. good now that we want to give them a free medi- We will have to look carefully at other options. cal card. That is a very small issue. I refer to home help and home care packages which appear to offer a solution in that people Mr. Sherlock: It is a very small issue. would be paid to provide a facility and the back- 1421 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1422 up service would be provided by local authorities. the Government for its initiatives as well as criti- We will have to make decisions and take action cism where it is due. Anyone interested in this quickly on these options. Bill would do well to read it. We must increas- It would be wrong of anybody to suggest that ingly examine this issue. We know that our eld- we should give somebody who is in full-time care erly population will grow in number, that the their full old age pension to be put aside for other dependency level will increase and that there is a family members. shortage of long-term care beds and funding for carers. We also know within reason how much Mr. Connaughton: Who is saying that? money will be available this year and for the next three or four years if the Government is still in Ms Enright: Who is suggesting that? power. We will try to keep the economy going well in any case. Nonetheless, the money will An Ceann Comhairle: Deputy Dennehy should have to be provided. be allowed to speak without interruption. Decisions must made on these issues. For example, Mr. Liam O’Sullivan has posed the Mr. Dennehy: That would not be viable and question whether the public is willing to pay would not help other areas of the health service. another 2.5% in taxation or PRSI to provide Many people such as carers need assistance. We health care for the elderly. The question will must use our money to the best possible never be put that baldly to people but we need advantage. to examine the package of money we have and As Deputy Olivia Mitchell stated, we were all decide on priorities for its use. When the Govern- concerned at the amount of money being taken ment does something well, it must be recognised in the past. Everyone who served on a health and supported and when it does something board has had that worry and voiced it in the past. wrong, it must take the criticism, which it has We need to make changes and move on. It is done. We will also voice that criticism as quickly essential that we have a level of charge. I hope as anyone else. the matter can be quickly dealt with and that the The medical card was called for by general people who in the past made a great deal of practitioners and representatives of all parties. It money from Army deafness claims and other is therefore no good to criticise it now. If we matters will not be the ones to benefit from this could get another 200,000 people fully covered by issue. It was amazing how quickly the legal pro- the GMS, it would be great, but we are told this fession had advertisements in place — they were is what we can afford. The initiative is a welcome in place almost as soon as the court decision was move. The 7.5% increase in the eligibility rates is made. I found that a bit depressing. also welcome and people should congratulate the I do not advocate a one-party approach. No Government on it. We would like for drugs to be doubt we will have arguments as people will hold covered next year. different opinions. I will voice my concerns at Deputy O’Connor said that the appointment of parliamentary party meetings, with Ministers and a Minister of State with responsibility for the eld- decision makers. We must have the debate on the erly was a step in the right direction. However, future care of the elderly. we need to continue to move in that direction. I read a timely article today by Liam Other than holding on to the job for a while, O’Sullivan, the national development officer for Deputies hope that, when we need it, there will Care Alliance Ireland in today’s Irish Examiner be a good environment and someone to care for which referred to that organisation’s upcoming us. We will be thankful for it and, I hope, live conference. It asks questions such as whether we long enough to enjoy it. want to live in a society where care of elderly and vulnerable people is provided mainly by paid care Ms Enright: I wish to share time with Deputy workers. I will leave that question hanging. It also Connaughton. asks a number of other questions such as whether we want to facilitate people to stay at home. An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? Every report on the subject has concluded that Agreed. the elderly wish to be in their own homes and their own environment. Ms Enright: I am concerned that this Bill, Although it is not always possible because of unusually, has been introduced to the House medical reasons, we must try to provide for this. without an explanatory memorandum. This has We must have a debate about what can be done, not happened in my short time in the House. It who will fund it, how much it will may have occurred in respect of the previous 5 o’clock cost and what is the best way in Health Bill, although I am open to correction. which to spend the money. All This Bill will be sent to the Seanad where, had it Deputies will support this Bill because they all been introduced there, would have required an accept there must be some level of charge. We explanatory memorandum under that House’s need to divert money into different aspects of the Standing Orders. This matter should be examined care of the elderly. in this House. When Bills have come before the The article to which I referred is a very Supreme Court in the past, explanatory memor- balanced piece in which compliments are paid to andums have been examined prior to the court 1423 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1424

[Ms Enright.] which could be left lying idle. For example, Riada giving its judgment. This is a strange departure House in Tullamore and Ophalia House in Eden- from precedent and one which has not been derry, where extensions were promised years ago adequately explained by the Minister for Health to provide the needed beds, have not come on and Children. I call on her to explain why this is stream. This brings one back to the issue of over- the case. crowding within hospitals and the use of beds by I commend Deputies Perry and Kenny for their people who would perhaps be better cared for pursuit of the issue of illegal charging in nursing elsewhere. The lack of available beds is unfortu- homes. It is clear from the Supreme Court nately forcing people into private nursing homes decision that, despite Government attempts to at great cost to themselves or their families. The muddy the waters in recent months and the care is not necessarily any less but it is not always Tańaiste’s statements, the issue of overcharging the optimum choice for people and many find became much more apparent from 2001. More- they cannot afford it. In this context, one must over, there is strong evidence to suggest that the consider the issue of the variation in the cost of Minster for Health and Children at the time, subvention. Deputy Martin, and his Ministers of State abdi- It is difficult to describe the position one is in cated their responsibilities in their handling of the since the abolition of the health boards. People issue from December 2003. write the same letters to the same people with Part of the reason for this Bill being presented similar titles and addresses, except that it is the is the outcome of this position. It is a shame that Health Service Executive midlands area rather the Travers report is not available to the House. than the Midland Health Board. I had hoped that We are told we should learn from our mistakes the one good aspect of the abolition of the health but it is very difficult for the former Minister for boards would have been that anomalies between Health and Children, Deputy Martin, current regions would have been addressed and we could Minister, the Tańaiste, Deputy Harney, and her have achieved a better, fairer and more equal Ministers of State when they and we cannot see standard of care throughout the country. the report into the handling of the issue before However, this has not happened yet. Subvention we discuss another Bill which effectively deals is a perfect example in this regard. with the same issue. This is a pity because it I accept that owing to pressures of population, would have been good to have had recourse to private nursing home care may be more expens- the report while discussing the Bill prior to its ive in some parts of the eastern region than enactment after Friday, 11 March next. others. It might be more expensive in some parts I refer to the issue of overall care for the eld- of the eastern region to secure private nursing erly. The Minister of State, Deputy Seań Power, attempted to deal with the matter in his speech home care but I cannot understand why enhanced subvention in the eastern region should be up to to the House. It is nice to have noble aspirations, \ a term used by other Ministers in recent times, 520 whereas in the midlands region the rate paid is only between \50 and \90. That is a huge dif- but we need more than that. We must have long- \ term planning, not only in terms of public and ference of up to 430. It is unacceptable. private nursing home care, but also in terms of The midlands region borders the eastern region the adequate provision of long-term care of the and many of the same population pressures affect elderly within their homes. There are people who places such as Portlaoise, Edenderry, Mullingar would rather be cared for at home if all the facili- and even Longford. I do not understand why such ties were in place. a disparity exists. Furthermore, 1,098 people in Many inroads have been made in this regard the eastern region were able to avail of the and better facilities have recently been provided enhanced subvention whereas only 32 people in for the care of people in their homes than existed the midlands region could avail of it. These ten or 15 years ago. However, we have a long way matters must be addressed. It is important that to go to make it a viable alternative to long-stay the Health Service Executive deal with such ano- nursing home care and we have not yet bridged malies and ensure that people are treated prop- that gap. This is an important consideration erly and equitably. It certainly is not happening which requires long-term planning because stop- at present. gap measures will not work. Recently, I attended a meeting of an We will perhaps never reach the optimum Alzheimer’s group in my constituency. The diffi- number of nursing home beds but we must aspire culties it faces are no different from those faced to it. The community nursing unit in Birr opened by other groups. However, the main points the recently having lain idle for two years. I am glad group raised with me were the cost of care, sub- it is finally open now, the staff having been pro- ventions and the availability of care. Not every vided to run the beds as promised. However, this nursing home is willing to take in a person suffer- goes back to long-term planning. How can we ing from Alzheimer’s disease. They generally decide we need a unit, provide the money for it require a greater standard of care than other resi- and yet leave it lying idle for two years? It is a dents of nursing homes. Care is often far more serious question. People are concerned to see expensive because of the greater care require- other facilities supposedly coming on stream but ments. This must be addressed. 1425 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1426

I believe there is only one bed dedicated to clear guidelines from the Government on how it Alzheimer’s patients in County Offaly. Com- intends to deal with the issue. pared to the number of people at the meeting The doctor-only medical card was a good idea. who have relatives suffering from Alzheimer’s Deputy Twomey suggested it initially, before the disease, it is a negligible allocation and has no Ta´naiste, but as a temporary measure. The impact. That is unfair and wrong. Certainly, means-testing method in the Bill is extremely public community nursing units and nursing interesting. There will be another trip to the homes have a duty to address this. It might be Supreme Court if the Government is not careful more difficult to force private nursing homes to and if the Minister does not accept amendments do it although I would have no difficulty with to it. It is certainly discriminatory and an attack such a decision being taken. They should not be on marriage. That is unusual and a pity. Why in the position of picking and choosing the resi- should a married couple be treated in a more dents they accept. When they have the facilities negative way than a couple who are cohabiting? available they should ensure that everybody is A married couple will be means tested against the able to avail of them. spousal income but that will not happen to a There is a lack of help for carers in their homes. couple who choose to live together and not get Due to the shortage of spaces, many people are married. forced to deal with patients and relatives suffering from Alzheimer’s disease in their homes. That Mr. Connaughton: The Government is trying imposes huge burdens and involves 24-hour care. to put a spin on this Bill. I heard a Minister There is no way around it due to the nature of describe it as a good news Bill but if we consider the illness. The Government should examine and its background, we will soon find out from where address this issue. the good news came. Deputy Dennehy spoke about opposition to The Minister for Health and Children, the two charging for public nursing home care. It certainly Ministers of State and a secretary of the Depart- did not come from this side of the House. We ment discussed this subject in 2003. Somehow, accept the principle that people must pay for care however, the senior Minister neither heard nor and nobody in Fine Gael has stated otherwise. knew what happened. It was obviously troubling The Bill provides for an 80% charge across the the Department and the Minister; they knew they board. The Minister should consider that differ- were sitting on a time bomb. After this, the Ombudsman wrote about the issue and the ent people have different needs. A person who is former chairman of the Committee of Public bedridden in a nursing home might not need the Accounts, Deputy Perry, raised it. It was then same amount of money by virtue of the fact that raised by the leader of Fine Gael, Deputy Kenny. he or she is bedridden and might be incapacitated That is what one could call whistleblowing. Had either mentally or physically. that not taken place, a Bill would not have been However, there are others in nursing home rushed through the House before Christmas and care who might be able to go to Mass or to the we would not be dealing with this Bill today. That shops for the newspapers and so forth. This explains the origin of the current mess. leaves such people with a small amount of dispos- Why are the most vulnerable people in society, able income. I am not suggesting a scale but we people with nothing, asked to carry the can all should examine this provision to ensure that it the time? It would not happen to the higher level could be applied in a fairer manner. Everybody, professions in this country. Invariably, it hap- regardless of whether they are in a nursing home, pened to people who had nobody to speak for has the right to a quality of life, and a resident of them. A chain of events led to this Bill. It is fortu- a nursing home has the same desires as other nate that the President acted as she did and that people to buy things, have their hair done and the the Supreme Court did what it had to do. Let like. We must ensure that we give them the dig- nobody tell me the Government was the origin- nity and quality of life of being able to do that. It ator of this Bill; it was brought screaming to it. is important that this point is made. I have much to say but, unfortunately, I do not The current Minister for Health and Children have sufficient time. I believe the Government has not handled this issue well — she has handled will be back before the Supreme Court before it badly. There has been little clarity. Legislation long, as Deputy Enright mentioned, on the ques- was rushed through the House before Christmas, tion of eligibility for the medical card. There will despite warnings from all sides of the House. The be an uprising throughout the country. The end result is as expected. Despite the fact that the Government has decided that a married couple Minister was rushing the legislation through the are less likely to get a medical card than a couple House, she made a tokenistic and patronising ges- who are cohabiting. There will be a remarkable ture of paying everybody \2,000. There is a differ- reaction, and rightly so. ent figure for everybody in terms of what the care There is another important matter. The cost, what they paid and how they were illegally Supreme Court found that the people who were charged. The payment of \2,000 across the board affected are entitled to compensation. I sincerely was nonsense. The end result is that this matter hope they get it. I hope they will not be pushed will cost us a fortune, while dealing with it will into the courts but that they will get it by right. be an administrative nightmare. There should be The advertisements Deputy Dennehy saw in the 1427 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1428

[Mr. Connaughton.] system last year, which reduces the number of newspaper are a matter of concern. However, at extra cards to 20,000. If my figures are correct, the end of the day, the Government is in office the increase in wages means it is doubtful 20,000 to govern. A serious mistake has been made and extra cards will be granted despite the 7.5% insult given to those at the bottom of the ladder increase in the eligibility threshold. in our society. I hope they will be treated with respect and dignity in the coming months. Mr. Moloney: I wish to share my time with The public listening to this debate will not take Deputy Cooper-Flynn. I welcome this attempt to much notice of the comments of the Tańaiste, address the difficulties caused. I recognise the who stated: point made by Deputy Connaughton in regard to Deputy Twomey. Opposition for the sake of I refer to future services for older people opposition was not Deputy Twomey’s role and specifically. It has been the policy of successive I recognise his responsible attitude on this issue. Governments to endeavour to help older However, it should also be recognised that it is people maintain themselves in the community not the Government’s role to create difficulties while at the same time providing for residential for the elderly. I will not rehash the statistics on care which is not prohibitively expensive. increased funding for the elderly in all areas I do not have time to comment on the rest of because this has the effect of annoying Members. her contribution. How does this statement square However, I will not accept condemnation of the with the situation of an 80 year old man in north Government as being miserly towards the elderly Galway who recently had circulation problems in as that is not the case his legs, suffered serious pain and was hospital- I welcome the Bill and the opportunity to clar- ised for several weeks? The man and his wife, ify some issues related to it. In recent weeks the who is crippled with arthritis, have medical cards. impression has been created that the Govern- He was told that an appliance, like a big shoe, ment is intent on removing supports for the eld- which would put pressure on the veins to help the erly and ensuring that they must pay for all of circulation of blood in his leg could be hired from their care and attention. There is a belief that this a Dublin firm. The man must use this appliance care and attention should be free across the at home for five hours each day. If it was not in board. While I have not heard it suggested in the his house, he would have to take up a bed in one House, this impression has been created. of the hospitals in Galway. What did the Health Over the years I have noted major improve- Service Executive do? It slapped the man with a ments to nursing homes and care centres for the bill for \1,550 for a 90 day rental. When 90 days elderly in my constituency. I do not highlight this is up, he will have to pay another \1,550. to justify the difficulties created in recent months It was put to the former health board and the and years. I fully accept difficulties exist and that Health Service Executive that this man was help- we have a job to redress these. If elderly people ing by not taking up a hospital bed and that he are entitled to a refund in full of money taken, I has a better quality of life at home, where he would fully support this. However, it should also should be, as the Tańaiste stated in the comment be noted that over those years great strides were referred to above. Moreover, he would be less of taken to put in place proper facilities for the eld- a financial drag on the State. I hope the Tańaiste erly. I have visited care centres in my constitu- takes notice of this. There is no relationship ency, including at Mountmellick last week, and between her statement referred to above and witnessed the major improvements made. It galls what is happening in the country. Unless she gets me that people suggest the Government intends her act together, many will not believe a word the to remove entitlements. Government says on anything to do with health. It is difficult for me to address this issue as I If we do not treat people, particularly the eld- may be asked why I do not support the elderly. erly, with dignity and respect, it will be a mark However, I must recognise the huge costs against society in general. There must be a major involved. I was surprised to find that the cost of input by the Government. These elderly people catering for a patient in my local hospital for the worked hard, paid their dues and, as such, should elderly—Iamsure it is the same across the be treated with respect and dignity, which many board — amounts to \1,200 per week. As pen- are not. sions are approximately \170 per week, the level I highly commended Deputy Twomey for his of care now extended to the elderly could not be courage in openly stating that the doctor-only considered unless there was an adequate funding medical cards were a means to an end, which was base — I understand the cumulative figure for not opposition for opposition’s sake. He never this is approximately \2 million per week. stated, and neither will I, that this development I am delighted supports are in place. This issue should finish at the first stage. We sincerely hope does not only concern board and lodging but that whatever Government is in place in the next many aspects across the spectrum. I was delighted couple of years will try to change doctor-only to note the advances in services at Mountmellick, cards to full medical cards to give people that to Shaen in Portlaoise and Abbeyleix, the centres which they are entitled. However, despite the for care of the elderly in County Laois, and simi- 30,000 extra cards which were to be issued this lar advances in County Offaly. A range of ser- year, some 10,000 cards were taken out of the vices which were not available five years ago are 1429 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1430 now in place, properly so. However, they could while we could not immediately extend the medi- not have been initiated or continue unless fund- cal card numbers, this action could be taken. I ing was in place. I am glad we have moved away believe the initiative showed great promise. from the ordinary issues of board and lodging. Goodwill has been shown towards it and I too My local hospital, quite properly, contains a wide welcome it. spectrum of facilities for crafts, art, music, reflexology and relaxation. Ms Cooper-Flynn: I welcome the opportunity It should not be imagined, though in our minds to speak on the Health (Amendment) Bill for a it unfortunately is, that the only way to care for number of reasons. It is important to focus our the elderly is to locate places for them in nursing attention on looking after elderly people within homes. I take the point made by Deputy Con- our communities and on low income families who naughton. I do not see this as a good news pack- found it so difficult to avail of GP services over age. Why should we see it as such? I see it as recent years. focusing on the needs of the elderly. That is not I welcome the legal framework set out in the a cop-out by way of admitting that we have been Bill for charging patients for the maintenance wrong on this issue and now have the opportunity element of inpatient services in publicly funded to right it. We should not do so by suggesting that long-term care residential units. After 29 years, it the only way forward is to provide nursing home is important that this be put on a sound legal places. The former health board members among basis. From speaking over the past few weeks to us have regularly made the case for the need to people in the community and those working for increase subventions in the area, though I recog- the Western Health Board in my area, I know nise that over the past few years, the level of that people find it incredible that a situation like funding in that area has quite properly increased. this could have been allowed to develop over the It is also fair to recognise that the age profile terms of successive Governments for 29 years. of the elderly is ever on the increase and the The number of written and telephone inquiries demands placed on the State by that situation are to the Western Health Board on this issue has also increasing, as is the demand for further been unprecedented and it is clear from public Exchequer funding. We must debate how we care debate on the radio that people have been unable for our elderly. It has often been said that a state to get through to the helpline. Calls to my con- is judged on such care, and I accept that. The stituency office show that this issue will be a major one and an administrative nightmare over most important aspect of this debate must be how the next few months but in the end, people have we move towards providing funding for the eld- a sound legal basis for their claims. I welcome the erly and towards recognising that it is not just a statement by the Tańaiste that this matter will be matter of finding health board care centre places dealt with as quickly as possible. for them. The possibilities of further grant aid or Regarding nursing homes and people being tax breaks for nursing homes must be opened up. looked after in the community, people recognise I welcome the debate. I greatly regret the pain \ that nursing homes provide a valuable service. caused but do not think that handing 2,000 to The contributions of people towards the cost of individuals to make up for times past is just a gim- this service represent a small percentage of the mick. I see it as an honest attempt to recognise overall cost so it is important that it is put on a that a mistake has been made and to rectify it. sound legal footing. I also welcome the medical cards initiative. I The matter gives me an opportunity to raise an do not see it as a yellow pack answer, a quick fix issue in the programme for Government which or a cheap gimmick. It is clearly focused on bring- affects my constituency, namely, providing for ing a further 200,000 people into the net. From elderly people in their own community. Coming talking to GPs in my area I am satisfied that a from Mayo as I do, I draw the Minister’s atten- certain barrier has been removed in the case of tion to the claim on behalf of the people of the families, particularly where asthma is a problem, Ballinrobe area who have been seeking a nursing who are often reluctant, especially if there are home in the town for over 25 years. I was chairp- two, three or maybe four people in the family, erson of the Western Health Board in 1999 and to attend their local GP. The initiative has been the board purchased a site for the purpose just worthwhile. I take the point that there are fewer before 2002, for £300,000. Unfortunately we are people on medical cards than there were. I do not still waiting. |t was not included in the national want to throw in a red herring but surely that is development plan for capital projects in the related to the fact that we have a growing econ- Western Health Board area. We were awaiting omy with more people at work, so clearly there funding from the Department of Health and Chil- are more people outside the previous medical dren to honour a commitment given by the par- card net. ties in government that they would provide for I welcome the initiative. I do not see it as an community nursing in the areas where the elderly attempt to downgrade the elderly. It is a way of people are. I hope that a nursing home in Ballin- focusing on how we can further support them. I robe will be considered a high priority by the thank the Tańaiste for recognising that. On the Government in the near future because the com- day of her press conference I thought it was a munity there has worked very hard in achieving bold initiative on her behalf to recognise that its objective. 1431 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1432

[Ms Cooper-Flynn.] reduction in the number of traditional card hold- When the Tańaiste came before the Joint Com- ers in County Mayo and that there will be an mittee on Health and Children a number of increase in doctor only cards. I hope doctor only weeks ago, I raised the issue of the level of sub- cards will not be a substitute for traditional medi- ventions paid in different parts of the country. It cal cards because the value of such cards to is completely discriminatory that within the West- families is significant. I welcome the provision of ern Health Board area a person can get a subven- the doctor only cards, as they will enable many tion only up to a maximum of \220 weekly, while low income families to avail of GP services. Many someone living in Dublin or in the eastern part of them have avoided bringing children to their of the country can get up to \500 or \600 weekly. GPs and, unfortunately, the consequences have That is unacceptable. Looking at the costs been serious. I hope we will not witness the involved, even for example the cost of providing demise of the traditional medical card through its a nurse on the east coast vis-a`-vis the west, there substitution by the doctor only card. is no massive discrepancy involved. It is unfair to Under the legislation, an individual can attend expect nursing home owners in the west to pro- a variety of doctors. Will the Minister of State vide an essential service when they are treated explain how that will work? I tabled a parliamen- unfairly. tary question to the Tańaiste and Minister for I congratulate the Tańaiste on the fact that she Health and Children seeking reasons for the loss acknowledged to the committee that this was dis- of 8,300 medical cards in County Mayo and she criminatory. Indeed the situation is worse in the replied that 8,047 cards were lost because the hol- east where one could have a nursing home on one ders had died. A total of only 253 people, there- side of the road getting a \300 subvention per fore, lost their medical cards on the basis of client while one on the other side of the road gets income. In addition, the doctors involved were \600 per client. That needs to be addressed and I paid as if the medical cards were still in use, even ask the Minister to look at it in the near future. though the holders were deceased. That money I welcome the Supreme Court decision that it will be recouped over time but it was a serious was unsound that retrospective provisions would waste given that the money could well have been be put into a Bill making lawful the imposition used to provide medical cards for people in need. and payment of charges for something that The figures must be analysed and money paid on occurred in the past. That is welcome because it foot of a card held by a deceased person should would have set an unfortunate precedent. One be refunded. would have to call into question the legal advice The post polio group appeared before the given when the Bill was brought to the House Oireachtas Joint Committee on Health and Chil- before Christmas. It is important that we take our dren recently. A finite number of people are time with legislation that is vitally important to affected by this illness, which they want covered all citizens. We now have to deal with the position under the long-term illness scheme. Unfortu- in which we find ourselves. It is important to nately, the Department has not extended cover move forward, to recognise the excellent work to illnesses under this scheme in recent years. I being done by the State and by private nursing ask the Minister of State to consider adding this homes in our community and to put them on a illness, as it affects a finite number of people who sound footing in the future. have suffered greatly. Their needs are quantifi- The other significant issue this Bill deals with able and while, in a number of cases, they are is the doctor-only medical cards. I draw the Mini- being looked on sympathetically by the Health ster’s attention to the fact that within the Western Service Executive through the discretionary Health Board area, particularly in my county, we arrangement available to chief officers, unfortu- had the biggest decrease in medical cards in the nately, the discretion is not applied consistently country from the period 1997 to October 2004. In throughout the State, resulting in discrimination County Mayo during that period, 8,319 people between HSE areas. When I sought the issuing of lost their medical cards. I put a number of guidelines to chief officers regarding the use of parliamentary questions to the Tańaiste at the discretion, I was informed that if guidelines were time noting that income levels in County Mayo put in place, the discretion would be removed. have not increased sufficiently to sustain that However, there is discrimination between various level of decrease in the number of medical cards. HSE areas and the Department could easily solve The programme for Government states that this problem if it was willing. medical card eligibility would be extended in line While I welcome the legislation, it is unnecess- with the recommendations of the national health ary. If more time had been put into planning and strategy. How may that tally with a reduction of drafting the original legislation before it was 8,300 cards in County Mayo? I welcome the 7.5% introduced in the House in December, we would increase in the income threshold, which will result not have to debate the issue again. in the provision of 30,000 additional medical I ask the Minister of State to re-examine the cards. I also welcome the provision of 200,000 position of Ballinrobe nursing home. The com- doctor only medical cards. When the annual munity has campaigned for 25 years because review of medical cards is carried out next year, I there is a serious need in the area. Both Govern- hope there will not have been another significant ment parties reiterated their commitment to the 1433 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1434 area in the programme for Government and it instead. The Minister says this allows a patient to should be forthcoming. I look forward to a posi- avail of a doctor’s services for free and to claim tive response in this regard in the near future. back the cost of drugs in excess of \85 a month. I am well aware that there are people who do not Mr. Sherlock: I wish to share time with Deputy have a medical card who visit doctors and do not Lynch. The Bill will amend the Health Act 1970 go to the chemist because they cannot afford the to address two matters — the charging of patients drugs. They are marginally over the limit. In my for maintenance and inpatient services in residen- region there is a community welfare officer, a tial hospitals and the introduction of doctor only superintendent community welfare officer and a medical cards. The issue of who is entitled to be referee. There was a time some years ago when refunded as a result of illegal charges in com- one person would do all that in his or her own munity hospitals where contract beds were pro- time. It might have taken a little longer but that vided is clear but many elderly people were told person knew what was happening. They did not they had to take beds in private nursing homes have the problems we do now. because no beds were available in community In 2001 we were told that every person over 70, hospitals. One can imagine the trauma experi- irrespective of wealth, was to have a medical card. enced by elderly people who knew their own That the cost of the scheme was underestimated families were involved in debating with the liai- is a further example of the maladministration of son officer at the time. They accepted the transfer this Government. I listened to the Minister’s col- because they had no choice. They were given league, Deputy Dennehy, speak at length on the application forms, which were all but signed for subject, but he did not know what he was talking them in many cases. They had no choice but to about. I would give the following example. A per- accept a private nursing home. Over the years the son refused a medical card because of being mar- Government provided private nursing homes and ginally over the limit went into a chemist despite provided substantial tax breaks to private the fear that it would be impossible to pay. Beside enterprise to build them but the Government did that person was a farmer with three farms and not consider nursing home subvention payments. one of the wealthiest people in the locality. He The families of elderly people transferred them presented his medical card to the chemist while to private nursing homes but did not realise the the other person could not afford what was pre- subvention payments were much less than the scribed. That is not an exaggeration, and that is weekly cost of care in the homes. In some cases the issue. A means test should have been carried elderly people were forced to sell their homes to out to determine whether the person was entitled pay the charges. Most people I know from rural to a medical card. For people on fixed incomes, areas in my constituency had to sell their cot- it is simply not possible to pay prescription tages, even though they were entitled to full sub- charges even though general practitioner charges vention because of their medical needs. are covered by these new cards. The scheme does The Labour Party does not object to charging not work for those on a low income. elderly people through deductions from their I know that the Minister will address these pensions but we are seeking justice and fairness questions when replying. I have said over the for everybody. I followed this issue closely as a years, especially during health board meetings, former member of the Southern Health Board. that the way the most vulnerable elderly people The former Ombudsman stated that under have been treated in terms of health services is section 52 of the Health Act 1970 an elderly per- appalling. The current Health Service Executive son in need is entitled to inpatient accommo- is not inspiring confidence. dation in a public or private nursing home. I hope the Minister of State will address this issue when Ms Lynch: This is probably the longest debate he replies. Will people who were resident in that we have had on the care of the elderly and private nursing homes receive refunds? It is stag- how we are to treat them in future that I can gering to consider that the previous Minister for remember having taken place in the Daíl. That Health and Children, Deputy Martin, spent \30 is an indictment when one considers that all the million on consultant reports but continually statistics tell us that we have an aging population. ignored the issue of nursing home charges. That may have changed slightly in the last five or I refer to the provision of doctor only medical six years, but the bulk of our population will soon cards. The saddest aspect of the nursing home be heading into the elderly bracket. Despite this, scandal is that medical cards provide good value the only occasion that we take time to debate this for money, speedy access to GPs and can reduce issue is when we put right a grievous wrong per- the cost of prescription drugs and hospital petrated over almost 30 years. That is an indict- charges for individuals and families on low ment of the Government. incomes. A few years ago 39% of the population There are several matters regarding this issue had medical cards. I remember approximately that we must discuss. For instance, not one of eight years ago it was 49%. I understand that it is three Ministers came away from a meeting they now 27%, and that gives one an idea of what has all attended questioning the legality of what was been happening. Many people who find them- taking place. Not one of them has been held to selves marginally over the limit are refused a account either. The former senior Minister in the medical card and are offered doctor-only cards Department of Health and Children, Deputy 1435 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1436

[Ms Lynch.] taking up to 12 months because the funding has Martin, has walked away from the issue in such a been cut back. We now know who is to be way that one could almost swear that he had refunded, but to suggest at this late stage that it never had anything to do with health. He has left will be \2,000 per family or per person is prema- a minefield in his wake. The current Minister for ture. We do not know how much it will cost, and Finance, Deputy Cowen, was right when he said people have rights in that respect too. To try out that he felt that the Department of Health and the figure of \2,000, as was provided in the legis- Children was like Angola. The current Minister lation before Christmas, is premature, and the for Health and Children, the Tańaiste, Deputy Minister needs some advice on that. That is not Harney, must surely feel that way given what she how it will pan out. However, those really put to has been landed with. the pin of their collars were those who had to No one can walk away from the blame. It was enter private nursing homes that cost \600 or clearly an issue that was known. The Ministers \700 per week and whose families had to try to attended that meeting, yet none of them has said scrape together what they could. The entire net- in the House that the matter was raised or spelt work of family is being put under tremendous out or if it was clear or unclear. We do not know, pressure to pay it and it continues to happen. We but the meeting was clearly called to discuss are not talking about history; this is happening something and was ignored because it was near now. the time of a general election and the Govern- We are not putting enough money towards pro- ment cares about nothing other than winning viding places for the elderly. A Government such elections. It will sacrifice everything else as backbencher spoke earlier about the marvellous long as it wins the election. strides we have made. We have made We in this House are discussing for the first 6 o’clock strides but from a very low base and time how we treat the elderly. Each of us at our there is much more to be done. Was advice centres receives calls every day from that not the slogan during the election — much daughters, husbands, wives and sisters about an done, more to do? elderly relative who needs full-time care and attention that is not available. I remember, eight Dr. Devins: It was. or nine years ago, listening to Deputy Sherlock Ms Lynch: There is much more to do. talking about this very issue and that it was illegal to charge elderly people who were in the care of Dr. Devins: And we are doing it. the State and had full eligibility. I am not simply saying that today; I have been saying it for a long Ms Lynch: That is not the case, but that is a time. I remember Deputy Sherlock raising the debate for another day. When it comes to the eld- issue on the Southern Health Board and his being erly we should have debates like this regularly. ignored. He and others knew it, but the matter We should not try with sleight of hand to put was not to be discussed because no one wanted right what we did wrong in the past. That must to deal with it. not happen. We must take responsibility for the Up to last year there were terms in the Irish elderly. The two greatest needs in society now are Examiner such as “bed blockers”. The reason child care and services for the elderly. there was such a crisis in accident and emergency The issue of institutional abuse arose on “Live- departments is that we had bed blockers. In the line” with Joe Duffy today. The next major main they were elderly people too sick to go inquiry into the way the State treated people or home and with nowhere else to go. The geria- ignored their needs will be about the care of the trician in the Southern Health Board region had elderly. We will be sitting at home or in a home declared that they were in need of full-time care one day and remembering when this issue first and attention — the same geriatrician who was arose and that we should have taken much more on the team that produced the Hanly report. He interest in it at the time. The next major scandal was very well thought of and clearly an expert in that will break will be the way we have treated his field. He assessed elderly people and said that the elderly, and we had better start doing some- they could not go home since they were in need thing about it while we have the money. The rest of full-time care and attention. However, none of the world has done it and I do not understand was available from the State. Just as Deputy why we cannot do the same. Sherlock has said, they were handed the subven- On the medical card element of the Bill, and I tion forms and told to apply. On top of that, they am glad Deputy Cooper-Flynn raised the issue, were given a list of nursing homes and told where these cards will be more than welcome to families beds were available. That is still happening. It is who have lost their medical cards because they not past history because it occurs today. That is went over the income limit. I am talking about how we still treat the elderly. Exactly that hap- people with young children or those who have a pened to someone today in hospital after an teenager suffering from asthma, which is not a assessment. long-term illness and does not carry the same When it first arose, being recommended for a entitlement to a medical card. subvention of any kind took up to two months. Like Deputy Cooper-Flynn, I have a sneaking Enhanced subvention at health board level is now suspicion that we are not adding to the medical 1437 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1438 card scheme but dismantling it. We are seeing the tutions to contribute something to the cost of first step towards the replacement of the medical their bed and maintenance is constitutional. card which provides access to doctors’ services This practice has existed for many years but the and medication. More of these cards will prob- underlying legislation has been defective. Why ably be issued next year and at the same time we the practice was allowed to continue in the light will see a decrease in the number of full medical of such defective legislation is an important issue, cards issued. Only a Progressive Democrats Mini- and I welcome the speed with which the Tańaiste ster could introduce a scheme such as this. While has moved to clarify this point. The report by Mr. I feel sorry for the Tańaiste in terms of what the Travers into this point will be published in the former Minister, Deputy Martin, left behind him next few days and we will then be able to ascer- in the Department of Health and Children, I will tain the reason this unsatisfactory position was have no sympathy for her if that is her intention, allowed to continue for so long. which I believe it is. It is important to remember that this situation This measure is much more sinister. We are has existed for 30 years under 11 Governments of beginning to see a dismantling of the medical card all political hues and nearly every party in this scheme that has served this country well. As House was in Government at some stage during Deputy Sherlock rightly said, the percentages those 30 years. This report will clarify the reason have dropped dramatically. Fewer medical cards that position existed. The openness of the Mini- are issued in every county than was the case in ster for Health and Children and the speed at 1997. That is happening; it is not a gimmick. It is which she has moved has displayed a welcome a planned initiative to dismantle the medical card example of transparency. scheme and no better Minister to do that than a It can never be correct to charge people for a Progressive Democrats Minister. service when the basis for that charge is defective This short but significant Bill is no more than in law. To do so to a group of people who are the first step in a debate which must take place among the most vulnerable in society — the eld- on the manner in which we care for the elderly. erly and, in many cases, the infirm — is wrong There is one element of it which really annoys me and must not be allowed to occur again. Any such — the notion that elderly men and women would charges were deducted from the old age pension. be left with \30 in their pockets each week as if That was, in many if not all cases, the only source they were children. One’s needs do not diminish of income for those elderly people. For many of as one gets older. If anything, they increase. As a the years during which the practice continued, the woman I know that women only realised in recent old age pension was at a derisory level and it was years that the dignity that comes with financial only in 1997, when the Fianna Faíl-Progressive independence cannot be replaced. Even if people Democrats Government came to power, that the are well cared for, they still want to be able to old age pension started to attain a reasonable put their hands in their pockets and pay for their level. little comforts. For someone to be left with \30 The result of all of this is that many elderly at the end of their years is a scandal. In replying, people had no disposable income to spend on the perhaps the Minister would indicate whether this essentials we all need such as toiletries, clothes measure represents a dismantling of the medical etc. I know from attending long-term stay resi- card scheme and explain what happened at that dences that the quality of their lives would have meeting. When will we hear about that? been intolerable had it not been for the generosity of their families and friends who spent their Dr. Devins: I wish to share my time with own money to give some dignity to their elderly Deputy Fiona O’Malley. relatives and neighbours. It is easy to forget today, when the old age pension is approximately Acting Chairman (Mr. McCormack): Is that \166 per week, how much more difficult it was to agreed? Agreed. survive on a pension of £30 or £40 per week. I understand some health boards were in the habit Dr. Devins: I welcome the opportunity to of taking all the pension entitlements of people speak on this important and topical Bill. It is who were in long-stay accommodation. I welcome important and topical because of the immediate the speed at which the Government, in particular impact it will have on the lives of many people. the Minister, moved to stop deductions as soon There are two aspects to the Bill and I would like as it became apparent that there was a legal diffi- to deal first with the section on long-term stay. culty with these charges. Every Member of the House will be aware of I ask that the Health Service Executive the decision of the Supreme Court regarding the increase the number of people manning the infor- Health (Amendment) Bill 2004, which was passed mation hotline, advertised in today’s newspapers, by this House just before Christmas. While most because many of my constituents in Sligo-Leitrim media attention has focused on the findings of the are experiencing difficulties in obtaining infor- Supreme Court that retrospective charges are mation on the repayment scheme. There is a unconstitutional, another finding by the court great deal of confusion among members of the which received much less coverage is that the public regarding when and how repayments will practice of asking patients in long-term stay insti- be made. The sooner this confusion is cleared up 1439 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1440

[Dr. Devins.] I commend this important and timely Bill to the better. The Supreme Court ruled that such the House. charges are illegal under the existing legislation, and the sooner such moneys are repaid the better. Ms F. O’Malley: Little did any of us think we I wish now to deal with the second aspect of would be welcoming legislation of this nature so the Bill, namely, the introduction of doctor-only early in the new year. There is much reason to medical cards. As I stated on many occasions, welcome the Bill. However, the fact that this is despite the widespread and welcome growth in happening so soon after the introduction of the our economy in recent years, there are still Health (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004 must people who find it increasingly difficult to access make us aware of the dangers of bringing forward medical services, particularly those at primary or hasty legislation. I do not believe anyone on this general practitioner level. This is especially true side of the House was not aware of the difficulties of those whose incomes just exceed the threshold of bringing forward such legislation in an attempt relating to medical card qualification. In many to save the State some money. The previous Bill instances, these people have families with three was brought forward on good advice from the or four children. In the normal course of events, Attorney General, and a Minister can only act on children succumb to the usual childhood illnesses such advice. The President, in her wisdom, saw fit such as upper respiratory tract infections. In to refer the Bill to the Supreme Court to test its many cases, these illnesses are self-limiting. constitutionality. We must be grateful to her for Occasionally, however, they may progress to that because it has been determined that the pre- become more serious illnesses such as vious Bill was unconstitutional. It is our job now pneumonia. to remedy the situation. I am aware of instances where parents delayed I welcome the Bill because it provides legal cer- attending their GP in the hope that the ailment tainty in respect of charges. I do not believe the affecting their child might be self-limiting. Unfor- House is divided on the question of charges. tunately, this has sometimes had disastrous con- Everybody recognises that the State is not in a sequences leading to patients requiring urgent position to provide total care free of cost. With admission to hospital. Cases such as those to one or two exceptions, no one in the House is which I refer came about purely as a result of seeking that the State make such provision. patients’ parents being unable to afford the cost We must thank the Tańaiste for her swift action of a visit to the doctor and not through any negli- in terms of dealing with this issue. It has been gence on their part. stated that people knew the position regarding Inability to access medical care should not be charges for over 20 years. True to form, the allowed in any society. It is an affront to all stan- Tańaiste was prepared to do something swiftly dards of decency. I and my colleagues in Fianna about it. The only criticism one could level at her Faíl have agitated for some time for an extension is that she moved hastily but, as stated, there of the general medical service to cover an were good reasons for her doing so. increased number of people. Some weeks before With the Bill before us, we are now in a posi- the recent budget, a formal motion I proposed tion to deal with the legal certainty of providing was unanimously adopted at a meeting of the for the imposition of charges. The House is not Fianna Faíl parliamentary party. I was delighted really divided on that matter. However, this is an when the Minister for Finance announced the area in respect of which we must act responsibly. provision of the additional 200,000 medical cards Demographics indicate that the population is get- on budget day. ting older and we must consider how we will pro- The Bill provides the legislative basis for these vide for care of the elderly. The latter is partic- welcome medical cards. Some members of the ularly relevant because we will all grow old in the Opposition have tried to deride these cards. I not too distant future and we would like to have no doubt that the people who will benefit believe that there will be adequate services avail- from the cards do not share that viewpoint able to us. One of the Government’s priorities because they will enable them to avail of medical is to put in place a proper and sustainable care care when they might otherwise, for the reasons programme for the elderly. outlined, be reluctant to do so. I understand that I wish to refer now to the difficulties that arise the additional funding of \60 million being pro- when dealing with the monolith that is the vided in the current year will allow for approxi- Department of Health and Children. The Depart- mately 200,000 of these cards to be issued and ment must be reorganised and streamlined in that it is the intention of the HSE to set the order that the money goes to the patient and not income threshold relating to the cards at approxi- necessarily be spent on infrastructure or bureauc- mately 25% above the existing level. These cards racy. I accept that beds and buildings must be should be available next month. I urge the Health provided. Where these are in existence, however, Service Executive to process applications for they must be opened and operated in a cost-effec- them as soon as possible. Any person who is just tive way. In the area I represent, beds are avail- outside the current financial limit and who able at the Blackrock Hospice and believes that he or she will come within the 25% Leopardstown. I would like the Tańaiste to range should apply immediately. ensure that these beds are opened to elderly 1441 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1442 members of the population in the area I rep- Gormley and other members of the Green Party resent, Du´ n Laoghaire, who need them. have spoken and will speak on it. I broadly wel- I welcome the provision in the Bill relating to come it, although I share some of the reservations GP-only medical cards. When one is in a position already expressed. of responsibility, as is the case with all govern- I want to use this opportunity to outline my ments, one must set priorities. The Government absolute disgust, which is probably too weak a cannot sign blank cheques to be used for the pro- phrase, for this legislation. Deputy Fiona vision of services. Of course we would like to pro- O’Malley has just left the Chamber. She praised vide optimum services for every patient but that the Tańaiste for her clarity and foresight in identi- is not feasible. When the Tańaiste recognised that fying this little glitch whereby taking money from parents frequently did not go to their doctors, the elderly for services they had already paid for either in respect of themselves or their children, over the years through graft and taxation was because they could not afford to do so, she deter- illegal. The Tańaiste brought the matter to public mined to provide them with the reassurance of attention. However, it is an even greater sin, hav- access to free visits. We had been faced with an ing known that it was illegal and morally unjust- either-or situation, namely, should we provide ifiable, to proceed with it and try to legalise this more full medical cards to a smaller population robbery. or provide the security offered by free GP-only I could not help thinking of the analogy with medical cards? The Government has wisely Robin Hood and his merry men. There were chosen the latter route. Even Deputy Twomey many merry men in the Fianna Faíl backbenches, knows these cards are a good idea and I am sure but in this context this Administration and pre- he will support them, particularly as they rep- vious Governments are “Robbing Hoods”. The resent an effective use of the resources available. Tańaiste, Deputy Harney, is the sheriff of Newc- As a result of the Supreme Court decision, astle who, having collected the taxes from the resources will be ever more stretched. We need local villages, proceeds to legalise the law that to ensure, therefore, that resources for patients says, in effect, that they can be plundered and the are provided in the most appropriate way. The money taken off them again. I believe my IMO has welcomed GP-only cards and the parents, grandparents and great-grandparents Health Service Executive is about to enter into who contributed to this society over the years discussions in respect of them because of deserve better. anxieties relating to administration of the scheme. This is a timely opportunity to outline the sort However, I am sure the latter will not delay the of policy we have towards the elderly for the introduction of the cards. We all know a GP’s future. Older people lived through the Emer- priorities are for the patient and swift inter- gency or the Second World War. They saw the vention so that any anxieties are allayed or that first boom in the 1960s, the oil crises of the 1970s, the required treatment may be undertaken as the recession of the 1980s and the emergence of soon as possible. That will not be much of a bar- the Celtic tiger in the 1990s. They, more than any rier because when both parties to any nego- other segment of society, contributed to this. tiations have the same objective in hand, there is They are the people who paid tax at 48% during no reason consensus may not be delivered the dark days. It is they who contributed to the quickly. economic miracle which is world renowned but The question of legal certainty for the future is which has not done much for people’s quality of another matter that is welcome. It was something life. The people who contributed to this have paid that needed to be addressed and the Minister has with their blood, sweat and tears, from the courageously decided to do this promptly. That mothers who reared children or worked outside it is being done through legislation dealing with the home to the fathers who minded their chil- medical cards is significant as well. I suppose a type of belt-and-braces approach is being taken dren and who paid taxes at 48%. In this context in that it is not being done by means of a statutory I am also talking about people who emigrated instrument so that we will not find ourselves in and sent money home to keep the local economy the current position in future. going, and who are not treated with as much dis- I welcome the introduction of the Bill. I hope dain as they reach the twilight of their years. I am it has a swift passage through legislation. I hope thinking in particular of the emigrants in London, people who deserve whatever recompense they but that is for a later debate. I want to confine are entitled to because they had their contri- myself to the elderly in Ireland seeking care who butions taken from them, illegally as it now tran- are being treated with contempt. spires, avail of the service. It is the least the State People who have already paid in spades can do to provide a more transparent service for through the taxation system should not be asked people while making a charge for what is a very to pay a large proportion of their pension for resi- good care service. dential care. It is what Deputy Joe Higgins would describe as an unfair double taxation. I believe Mr. Gogarty: I wish to share time with Deputy that giving someone the best part of \30 in pocket Cowley. I do not wish to talk about the introduc- money is an insult to his or her dignity. Teenagers tion of the doctor-only medical card under this these days earn more than this in one night work- proposed legislation. My colleague, Deputy ing in a pub or in McDonald’s. It is a joke and an 1443 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1444

[Mr. Gogarty.] economic benefits. Community employment affront to a person’s human rights and dignity. schemes have a contribution to make in this Fianna Faíl might be complacent in thinking the regard, and not just for training which was their majority of voters over 60 vote for it or its original purpose. Older people can make a contri- Thatcherite spawn, the Progressive Democrats. bution through part-time work as part of com- Looking at how society is developing, however, it munity employment schemes, through job sharing is the older generation in particular which etc. These are ways through which older people, believes that quality of life is diminishing. They who are a major resource as Pope John Paul II are coming to realise that what Fianna Faíl has said, may continue to contribute and be Governments have given them over the last 30 valued and cherished. years is not what it appears to be. I would not be Reports have shown that proper nutrition and so smug at the next general election in thinking proper exercise such as weight training and yoga that the elderly will take this ignoble insult on the represent the way to ensure that health care costs chin and continue to vote for this Government. I are kept to a minimum. The Heidelberg guide- certainly hope they do not. lines, as proposed by the World Health Organis- I would like to make a few suggestions about ation, suggested that there are ways and means of how quality of life may be improved for the eld- promoting physical activity among older people. erly. The Progressive Democrats seem to think An independent older person is a happy, vibrant that if a person is incapacitated and has no econ- person. We should not aim just to treat people omic merit, he or she is dross and should wait to who are sick, but to ensure that fewer elderly have life terminated or wither away. I have news people are sick. People are living longer and they for the Tańaiste. The majority of older people are should be able to live healthy lives. Anything that active and contribute to life and society. They is done to promote a healthy, active life should should be provided with better opportunities to be considered and it would also save the State do this and there are ways and means. some money. Education courses are another way Although I am a Catholic, I disagree with Pope forward because keeping someone’s mind active John Paul II on a number of moral issues. is another way of saving the State money. However, here is a shining example of a person I urge the Government to think about planning of advanced years who has made a unique contri- before the demographic time bomb explodes. It bution to society. Let us listen to some of his should think about providing homes for elderly words. He said the elderly should not be allowed people mixed in with homes for younger people. to think of themselves as a burden on the com- Due to the high price of housing in the greater munity and sometimes even on their families. He Dublin area, people have moved to Meath and also said they represent a resource to be valued. Kildare. Their parents live in the city centre and This beacon for millions of Catholics said as much suburbs, but they cannot spend time with their in his Lenten homily this year. It is a message the parents as their time is spent commuting. If we Pope can convey, even in his ill-health. I hope the want to build a real sense of community, we have Government takes his words into account. to give incentives to elderly people so that they Age Action Ireland has made a number of pro- can live near their families, or to families so that posals in terms of what may be done to help eld- they can afford a house in the area in which they erly people. They can get financial aid in residen- grew up. That sense of community will also save tial care and if that means abolishing this measly the State money because rather than paying large tax, this is fair enough because while it is only amounts in cre`che fees, the elderly member of the 10% of the overall cost of care, it is a much larger family can perform some of the child care duties. proportional share of an older person’s income. That has a cost saving and is a way of valuing Services could be provided to older people in older people. Rather than looking at it as a cost rural areas. That means keeping post offices open and a burden by trying to take 10% of the total and the social fabric alive. It means allowing cost of care, we should consider giving pensioners proper public transport systems to be set up so their dignity and rights and consider ways of sav- that the elderly may network and get out and ing the State money. meet people. It is a very ageist attitude but many people Dr. Cowley: This Bill is a fiasco and is 29 years think that older people are just waiting to wither too late. Serious questions need to be asked on away and die. When a person finishes active con- how we arrived at this situation. There should tribution in terms of work, he or she is often seen surely be some mechanism in this State to ensure as not having anything to do. Dr. Garret that this sort of thing does not happen. We have FitzGerald made a proposal which should be con- already had the situation regarding medical cards sidered, even though I have no opinion on it one for persons over 70, where the Department of way or the other at the moment. He proposed Health and Children did not know how many raising the retirement age to 70, which would also people were over 70. That scheme cost many have a beneficial economic impact. All the stud- more millions of euro than was ever anticipated. ies have shown that for a person to be kept active In the course of time, memos from the Depart- in his or her older years by contributing to and ment will tell their own story, but I wonder will being valued in society has positive health and the report that we are to receive tell the full story. 1445 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1446

The Minister has spoken about systemic malad- medical cards, but now we have 200,000 non- ministration in her Department, which shows how doctor medical cards. I welcome the fact that the she feels about it. I do not think that anybody is parents of children will be allowed to continue to blameless here. The entire fiasco does not augur get treatment without having to reapply, but this well for the organs of the State and it cries out for will only apply to a small number of children with reform. I do not begrudge anyone the repayment very serious illness, according to the Minister. from the scheme to be set up. It is estimated that The Minister can surely do better than this. I ask \6,000 will be paid for each year that someone him to look at this measure again and extend it spent in public care. However, I fear that relatives to children suffering from any illness. who had very little to do with older people will Pharmacists have been saying that the new do well out of this. There will certainly be people doctor-only medical cards will create great con- who will have passed away and on whom little or fusion. There is a suggestion that some letter be no records will have been kept. There will, there- put on the prescription so that when someone fore, be money that will go unclaimed. The dor- presents at a pharmacy looking for a GMS pre- mant accounts fund might be considered as a scription, the pharmacist will understand that this source of money which could be made available is a doctor-only medical card. Confusion arising where it was impossible to repay it to the people in this regard might represent a roundabout way concerned. This has been a great victory for the of introducing a prescription charge. There is a property rights of older people. great need for fair play. What has been hap- There are many things that could be done with pening speaks volumes on how we treat our such a fund. For example, we have no social older people. workers for the elderly in many of our health There has been a diminution in the number of boards. Older people must try to find the where- beds in institutions for elderly people. In my area, withal to go to medical clinics which they are we are down about 100 beds in the past few years. obliged to attend. They are unable to go because People have been forced into the more expensive, of lack of funds from the Government. There has profit-driven, non-community nursing home sec- been a campaign running for a home for elderly tor. This is not a criticism of nursing homes, people in south Mayo since 1971. Just \400,000 where the staff are doing a good job in the would bring this project to design stage. I met the absence of a community alternative. People Minister of State, Deputy Power, with the people should have the opportunity to stay in their own of Ballinrobe to discuss this. An assessment of area. It is not acceptable that beds are taken out need was done and it was designated a priority. of the system and not replaced. The Minister It would certainly do wonders for the trolley should give serious consideration to breaking count in Galway and Castlebar. down the barriers that prevent communities from I ask the Minister to consider guidelines on looking after their old people. I have yet to meet how this money can be distributed. Guidelines someone who wanted to leave his or her own must also be drawn up for staff in institutions. area. Nobody wants to leave his or her own area When they see relatives arriving like flies to a and be part of the sad, silent migration of older honey pot, they need to know what to do, what people to institutions, where they lose heart and to say and how to say it. There is great room for die like the old Indian. the exploitation of elderly people so the Minister I have considerable experience in this area and should set guidelines to address this issue. An old our older people can be maintained at home for colleague of mine, who has since passed away, a longer period if they have the necessary sup- used to say that where there is a will, there is a ports to stay at home. Such supports include relative. That will be the case in this instance proper home help provision and appliances, more than ever. Elderly people need someone to neither of which has always been available. When represent them. When they cannot have a guard- a person can no longer be maintained at home, ian or a ward of court, they need some advocacy the least they should expect is to be maintained system. in their community. While it may be second best, I am calling for an advocacy system similar to it is certainly an option people should have. Ser- that proposed under the Disability Bill. A group vices provided through facilities like St. such as Comhairle should be set up under this Brendan’s village in Mulranny include low, Bill to act as an advocate for older people. Where medium and high support at home together with people can afford it, a small amount should be day centre support. The service guarantees that deducted for maintenance. However, it would be no matter how old or disabled a person is, he or much better if the amount deducted from the she can remain in the local area. It is what we pension left more to the older person so that they would all like to do. could keep body and bone together. For example, We must ensure the continuation of the trend 70% should be deducted, rather than the pro- to reduce the numbers in institutional care in posed 80%. State facilities. With the increase in the number Does this Bill represent the beginning of the of private nursing homes comes the need to process where doctor-only medical cards end up ensure the provision of a community alternative. becoming the only medical cards? This is not An alternative can never be provided in the what was promised. We were promised 200,000 absence of proper support. Communities have 1447 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1448

[Dr. Cowley.] people have great needs which relate not only to been involved in providing sheltered housing health but to associated factors. which successfully caters to people who do not Visiting a doctor should be as much about pre- have great needs. People with greater needs who vention as treating illness. I was astonished to dis- can forget to turn the heating on and the cooker cover at a recent briefing in Buswells Hotel at off pose a danger to themselves when they are which the Irish Cancer Society informed on their own. While sheltered housing and alarms Members about cervical smears that medical allow them to be maintained in the community cards do not cover prevention. It is an issue which for longer, when they can no longer look after needs to be examined. It is much cheaper to inter- themselves they must enter a nursing home. If it vene early to stop something from happening is a strange place, they will not do well there. than it is to treat it afterwards. At the Joint Com- Communities should be involved in the provision mittee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, of high-support facilities. Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, of which I am Chair- It is possible to support older people in the man, we discuss the issue of obesity. If one community. Low-support facilities require a addresses such matters early, one will not have to defined funding scheme to meet people’s needs. spend significant sums later. The concept that a The necessary high support facilities require capi- medical card can be used to provide only treat- tal funding as well as a revenue stream. These can ment in an age in which so much knowledge of only be provided if the Government has the will prevention exists is outdated. Prevention should to replace lip-service to community care with the be top of the list. resources to make it a reality. As I was a student in Belfast, I am called for smear testing every two years. Despite my Cecilia Keaveney: I am delighted to be able Donegal address and attempts to encourage the make a brief contribution on the Bill, the purpose practice in question to accept that I am no longer of which is twofold. It seeks to provide a frame- a patient, I continue to receive the communi- work to charge patients for the maintenance cation. I imagine there is a legal requirement to element of inpatient services and publicly funded continue to inform me that the practice is avail- long-term care residential units and to facilitate able to perform a smear test. It is very comforting the introduction of general practitioner medical to think that someone is watching out for people cards. Since I entered the House, I have pursued and calling them for testing rather than leaving the introduction of something which is more than a medical card. Rightly or wrongly, medical cards matters in their hands. It was recently said that if have become more than a way for a person to see one did not have to take one’s car to the car test- a doctor and obtain medicine. They are associ- ing centre, one would not do it. It is because one ated with everything in the system, including free gets a letter that one attends, despite that the test examinations in schools. People often direct at is provided ultimately for one’s safety. public representatives comments to the effect It is important to find out if something is wrong that they cannot take up work because they will before it becomes a problem that can kill. The lose their medical cards if they do. The medical faster we create screening programmes which call card has so many implications beyond health that people for tests, the better. Such programmes there is a need to create more tiers in the pro- should include cervical smears, breast examin- vision of available services. ations and tests for male cancers, including pros- If I were Minister, I would consider creating tate cancer, which kill just as many people per cards for services at stages between doctor visits year as their female counterparts. While I and the entitlements of a full medical card. For acknowledge that there are cost implications in example, a person with an income exceeding the extending the medical card system, I implore the threshold by a certain amount should receive ten Ta´naiste and her officials to consider the long- free doctor visits and ten free prescriptions per term gains rather than the short-term pains. As year. At another income level, a person should with the smoking ban, any short-term pain such receive five free visits and five free prescriptions. as expenditure on medical cards is bound to yield While there will always be people who fall out- a preventative result. side whatever categories are established, an Previously, the Minister discussed the efforts of approach like the one outlined would greatly successive Governments to keep older people at advantage those who are not regular visitors to home or within their communities in residential their doctor but would find some provision valu- care. There have been tremendous advances in able. I would like to think that the proposed gen- primary care provision in my area. I attended eral practitioner cards represent an initial point another briefing recently at which a group sought on a journey to a different form of provision. I to promote a holistic approach to primary care. noted in the Minister’s speech a reference to a When I asked them what could be done to review of the system after a certain period to improve services in the north west, they had to ascertain its operation for the 200,000 card hold- apologise and say that if they had realised I was ers. As no Member would describe the medical from the region, they would have told me how card income limits as generous, the 25% increase proactive the former North Western Health represents a necessary starting point. Many Board had been in improving services. 1449 Health (Amendment) Bill 2005: 2 March 2005. Second Stage (Resumed) 1450

Many people want to help people to stay at prove every year that they have a problem with home, but there are simple problems. A few their health. I do not understand this situation. months ago, a constituent of mine was assessed They have a serious medical condition and a for a home subvention which was approved. The doctor can reasonably state they will not get family has not received any support to this day. better. It is similar to disability benefit in that None of them is particularly wealthy and every somebody whose case is solid and whose situation one of them is involved in activity. Some of them will never substantially change should not have to are students and some of them work. However, go on to a scheme to prove him or herself for a they are doing their best to keep the show on the year. Perhaps we are being optimistic in thinking road. They could easily have told their father they that something might change. were going to leave him in a home or in one of I have a problem with the drugs payment the hospitals, but they chose not to because they scheme increasing considerably because for many wanted to deal with the matter themselves. of the people to whom I refer, the prescription However, they need a break and a bit of support. might be the bother. Some people try to be clever Spending months trying to get home subvention or prudent by going at the start of the month to is not in keeping with what is said about the get their medication and then again on the very policy of trying to help keep older people in their last day of the month to get the next month’s sup- own location. ply. The pharmacist tells them they cannot do I wish Ms Gertie Monagle, the former matron that and must come back tomorrow and pay of Carndonagh Community Hospital, well in her another \85. I am unsure of the standard pro- retirement and wish her replacement, Ms Maura cedure in this regard. Is the pharmacist right or is Gillen, every success. She said her goal is to the individual right in trying to maximise what he ensure that people coming to the hospital live or she gets in the month? I would like the matter until they die. One hopes this is the goal in many clarified at a later date. district hospitals. In Ms Gillen’s case, Carndon- A figure for gross income might suggest that a agh’s gain will be Buncrana’s loss. However, she household earns a great deal of money. What if is in the area and will make sweeping changes. the spouse does not get a fraction of that money? There is a question whether money should Often a spouse can have a medical problem but have been taken in the past, but this Bill will may not be in a position to go to the doctor ensure that money is taken in future. It is because he or she does not get a fair share of the important that money will be applied exclusively money coming into the household. I know of to the health services and will not go back into cases where people are living on very meagre the general Exchequer. The Minister said earlier weekly allowances and must save to get the that it is part of health funding and should be money to go to the doctor. We should be aware maintained in that area because it is needed of genuine cases, flexibility should be maintained there. with regard to welfare officers and people must The new doctor visitor medical card will realise that sometimes such shocking situations attempt to target 200,000 people. There are exist. adjustments in the income guidelines in respect I was trying to attain a broader modernisation of standard medical cards, and changes will help agenda with regard to medical cards. Section 4 of 30,000 people qualify for the standard medical the Bill deals with those who are exempt, a per- card. Perhaps there could be a certain number of son’s reasonable expenses needs are taken into free prescriptions or doctor visits for people who account in the application of section 45, and the fall just outside the general guidelines. issue of undue hardship is reflected in that. I welcome the new provisions for parents of We have potentially one of the best health children with illnesses which persist from year to systems in the north west. The hospital in Letter- year. This is a new concept and I hope it will help kenny constantly strives to have more facilities the vast number of people who need it. The pro- and is achieving more specialties. It is also achiev- visions mean that they will not need to reapply ing great birth rates because the population in for the medical card every year. I know many Letterkenny has increased by 42%. Hospital people affected by this and, unfortunately, the facilities, however, have not expanded to meet children will never get better. Until medical population needs or the ageing profile of the science advances significantly, the types of con- demography or the new specialties which need ditions they have will not improve, yet they are space. However, we have one of the most com- subjected to medical card income reviews. These mitted staff in the country, if not Europe. are not even based on income but on medical evi- I raised this issue on the Adjournment debate dence. I am glad the system is being changed. last week. This is not bed blocking or a case that The Bill refers to a small number of children one hears of in another part of the country where with serious illnesses who will be involved. The people are crying wolf. These are genuine facts number will not be very small, but neither will it backed up by statistics. Thirty thousand people be very large. I have come across people who, at cannot go through an accident and emergency a very young age, have degenerative rheumatoid department with only six bays. People referred by arthritis. At the age of 20 they have to get two general practitioners and in need of inpatient hips or possibly an elbow replaced, yet they must terms of stay cannot be dealt with without sup- 1451 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1452

[Cecilia Keaveney.] crime scene, should face prosecution in port for the accident and emergency unit — the courts; which is being progressed — and providing a sig- — regrets that no witnesses to this murder nificant number of new beds. There is no viable have yet come forward; and reason for a delay. We can talk about the need for money, but if the statistics and facts are irre- — calls on all public representatives to futable, the matter must be progressed. actively encourage those with know- A nursing unit in Buncrana needs simple stuff ledge of this crime to come forward and such as tarmac in the car park, PVC windows, give statements to the investigating pol- fascia board and work on the main entrance. ice so that the justice in the courts Given that an application has been made to the sought by the McCartney family can minor capital works scheme, that will happen. be achieved.” With regard to the hospital in Carndonagh, I Mr. Kirk: I wish to share time with the Minister hope the extension to the dining area, the day for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy hospital, the required painting and decorating McDowell, and Deputy O’Donnell. There may be and the tarring will proceed. other speakers on the Government side, also. The Tańaiste should speak to the Minister of State, Deputy Noel Ahern, with regard to volun- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? tary housing schemes where volunteers develop a Agreed. number of sheltered housing locations. In some cases, particularly at district hospitals, people are Mr. Kirk: I support the motion. It is clear from fit to leave hospital but their families are not in a our discussions in this House that the McCartney position to deal with them. However, with a little case has struck a chord with people North and support, these people would be able to live on South, and overseas. It is not hard to see why. their own. There should be a move between the First, from what we know of Robert, he is some- Departments of Health and Children and Envir- one with whom many people can identify with — onment, Heritage and Local Government to a family man respected in his community, with ensure sheltered accommodation for people who no connections to paramilitarism or criminality. are fit to leave hospital. It would be worthwhile There was nothing to mark him out as someone if they could move into sheltered accommodation who might meet with a violent death; nothing, it with either a nurse or a caretaker to oversee them seems, except his willingness to stand up for him- and ensure they are in safe hands. self and his friend against a particularly evil gang The BreastCheck service and a breast surgeon of assailants. That courage is a family character- are needed for Letterkenny. istic, as embodied by his sisters’ response to this crime. Debate adjourned. Second, the nature of the attack was particularly vicious and brutal. The extent of the injur- Private Members’ Business. ies to Robert and to his friend, Brendan Devine, tells us much about the nature of the person or ———— people who were involved in the attack. Such senseless violence is frightening in the extreme. It is even more frightening to think that the per- Northern Ireland Issues: Motion (Resumed). petrators enjoy any sort of organised support, but they do. Despite the words and statements, they The following motion was moved by Deputy have not been handed over to account under the Kenny on Tuesday, 1 March 2005: law for what they have done. Third, as cited in the motion, what happened “That Daíl E´ ireann after the attack is particularly deplorable. It seems the perpetrators of this crime had at their — deplores the brutal murder of Robert disposal a team of skilled and ruthless McCartney in Belfast on 30 January accomplices who were immediately ready and last; willing to remove from Magennis’s Bar every — commends the McCartney family and trace of forensic evidence which the crime had Robert’s partner for their courage in produced. They were able to be that composed, highlighting the circumstances of this while Robert McCartney and Brendan Devine brutal crime and in seeking justice in were left for dead on the street outside and no this matter; medical help was sought. As we know, destruction of evidence is in itself — notes the recent statements by Sinn a crime and, as the McCartney family has said, Feín that it supports the McCartney the people who carried out that crime should also family’s quest for justice for Robert; be pursued through the courts. — believes that all the persons responsible This brings me to the fourth element of the for this crime, including those who general revulsion at Robert McCartney’s murder. attempted to remove evidence from the In order to secure a conviction in a society which 1453 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1454 operates under the rule of law, the courts rely not Robert McCartney stand in the dock and face only on physical evidence but also on statements justice. from witnesses. There were many witnesses to this murder but to my knowledge few, if any, Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform have yet come forward to make a statement that (Mr. McDowell): The killing of Robert will lead directly to an arrest. McCartney was by any standards, as Deputy Kirk The McCartney family believes, and I have no has said, a cruel and horrific murder perpetrated reason to disagree with them, that this is because by a gang of brutal cowards. That this was done they have been intimidated or threatened — to an innocent victim is bad enough, but that his another crime. Those involved in witness intimi- family and loved ones have been forced to take dation must themselves be held accountable on themselves an immensely brave, public strug- before the law. Robert McCartney’s life was far gle to bring the perpetrators to justice, com- pounds the naked evil of his murder. too short but in that life he obviously inspired Having met and spoken to his sisters and his great love and loyalty in his family. The solidarity, partner here in Dublin, I am lost in admiration bravery and dignity of his sisters and his partner for their unique combination of bravery, dignity, Bridgeen have moved us greatly. They have also determination and hunger for justice. They are been the catalyst for a huge reaction within their not seeking vengeance or retribution, they are own community. They challenged the unspoken merely seeking justice. They could simply have rule that paramilitaries and those close to them imploded emotionally from the shock, grief and are somehow untouchable. They challenged the outrage of the savage attack on Robert, which idea that anyone, no matter how well connected, would have been the reaction for most of us faced should expect to be able to commit murder and with their terrible experience. These brave get away with it. women refused to be trampled down by thuggery, The IRA has expelled three members who are however, and they refused to let the light of believed to have been involved in this crime. justice be snuffed out by fear. Nothing will bring They claim to have “advised” them to take Robert McCartney back from the dead but, responsibility for their actions but this seems to equally, nothing will wash away the stain which have been advice which has been easy to ignore. his killing has left on the provisional movement. Those involved in intimidation and destruction of Nothing but the arrest, trial and conviction of his evidence have attracted no censure from the murderers will amount to justice in this case. His IRA. I call on all political parties to be unambigu- loved ones are right to insist that the agencies of ous in their advice to those with information on public justice should have access to the evidence this case. Intimidation must stop. Those in a posi- needed to bring his murderers to the bar of tion of influence in this regard should make 100% justice. We should remember that information clear that witnesses should come forward and that and intelligence, no matter how reliable, are not any threats against them will not be tolerated. admissible as evidence in courts. There is no sub- The McCartneys have asked people to co- stitute for witnesses. Due process, whether North operate with the police in securing convictions. or South, requires that statements of proposed No party which claims to support the family’s witnesses should be served on the accused before position can at the same time refuse to acknowl- there can be a trial or, for that matter, a edge the need to co-operate with the police. Wit- conviction. ness statements must be admissible in court to be This is not the first cowardly killing of this type. of any use. They should be given to the investigat- Torture and mutilation are, I regret to tell the ing police. When this is done, we look forward to House, part of the Provo’s stock-in-trade. The a day in the near future when the criminals from threat of murder drives many, if not all, of their base criminal activities. The greatest provisional Magennis’s Bar can be brought before the courts republican deceit, which has been swallowed by to answer for their crimes. Then we can hope that a small minority of media commentators, is the the Short Strand community can be allowed to suggestion that IRA thuggery and criminality is heal itself, free of the menace of criminal gangs the sole responsibility of the IRA and that Sinn who claim immunity for acting as part of a repub- Feín is some separate democratic chrysalis seek- lican movement but use it as a licence for their ing to break out of a paramilitary cocoon and own local status and interests. Try though it may, become an exclusively peaceful and democratic Sinn Feín cannot avoid dealing with this awful butterfly. People pose as liberation politicians but deed. Through the members of the republican I am afraid that as regards the provisional move- movement involved in it, they have colluded in ment, the truth is more Mugabe than Mandela. the denials and distractions. They have failed to The provisional movement is a single entity accept the moral clarity required. They have which terms itself the republican movement. It failed to bring their own paramilitaries to book. has a single leadership. The entire movement, If those who wield the armalite can so casually including Sinn Feín, regards that leadership as the damage their own ballot box, and be protected authentic source of political legitimacy on this for it, we may reasonably ask of Sinn Feín which island. Its decisions are law. Its murders are mere they value more. We will have our answer when executions. Its tortures are but punishments. Its they lift their reservations and the killers of robberies are just legitimate expropriations. Its 1455 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1456

[Mr. McDowell.] what the moral duty of professional practitioners network of crime and money laundering are of free speech which journalists are, demands of merely the financing of the movement. As we all them. Like the sisters and partner of Robert now know, its actions are, by definition, never McCartney, it demands bravery. That is the issue criminal. The public is beginning to see the shape we have to reflect on tonight, it is simply a matter of the threat to democracy posed by a movement of bravery. The community across Ireland has to which uses crime on a massive scale to engage in stand up in just the same way as the 300 people politics. What has been on view in recent weeks who went on the march the other day and con- is but the tip of an iceberg. While the public were front the threat to our democracy, the rule of law led to believe that the provisional movement and life itself. were struggling internally to leap directly, in a clean break, from paramilitarism to politics, the Ms O’Donnell: In the short time available I truth was a little more complex. It was, and is, wish to support the motion and make a few that the army council was preparing to transform observations. In deploring the murder of Robert the provisional movement by stealth into one in McCartney by members of the IRA and others, which the political loss-making “hardware div- and commending his family’s remarkable courage ision” of the IRA, with its semtex, kalashnikovs, in demanding justice, it is worth remembering rockets and missiles, was to be replaced with a there are 2,000 other unresolved murders arising lightly-armed IRA gendarmerie. The latter would from the Troubles in Northern Ireland. in future act as the enforcers for the criminal and What makes this murder so significant politi- control strategy underpinning Sinn Feín’s drive cally and in terms of its implications for Sinn Feín for political power. We now know that the IRA is not that it cannot be wrapped in the immunity was not planning to go away. It was planning to usually conferred by the “struggle” but that it has mutate into something else. It would be the come at a time when that central question of IRA lightly armed means whereby the crime went on, criminality is now the single obstacle to achieving the smuggling zone in the Border counties was a final settlement of the conflict as envisaged by protected, the rule of the army council was to be the Good Friday Agreement. enforced, the funds for politics and power were As has previously been said in the debate, this to be amassed and the Short Strand and many was no drunken brawl, it was premeditated other enclaves were to be dominated and ruled. slaughter. It was a cover up by those who abused It was to be the means whereby opponents and their power, a power which for decades has rivals would be intimidated and silenced. rendered the IRA immune from criminality and I wish to say a few words about another murder even disapproval in the eyes of its own com- victim, Eamonn Collins. His mutilated body was munity. Over the past few months Sinn Feín found a few years ago by the roadside in Newry. leaders have found themselves refusing to His death rivalled that of Robert McCartney in describe past republican actions as crimes. To concede that label of criminality for IRA activi- terms of the barbarity and cowardice of the per- ties over 30 years would offend the integrity of petrators. In his case, however, he knew he was a what its members perceive to be their struggle marked man. His crime was to testify before a against injustice and occupation. In their minds it Dublin jury, to tell the truth and point out that would be a slur, a diminishing of their version of Thomas “Slab” Murphy was chief of staff of the history, which is noble and patriotic. Those IRA and a member of its army council. His crime republicans who killed and died for Ireland must was to show that the libel case which was being from a Sinn Feín perspective be retrospectively brought against The Sunday Times was a colossal protected from the label of common criminality. lie and an attempt to punish the media for telling One man’s crime was another man’s patriotic the truth. The jury of Dubliners believed Mr. struggle for justice. Collins. After years of protracted discussions there is I mention this case because a handful of media still no shared or agreed view of the cause of the commentators still refuses to face up to the truth conflict; perhaps there never will be. What we about the IRA. They apparently do not want to had hoped for in the peace process was for the know who is involved. They do not want to see building of a shared vision for the future and a who raided the Northern Bank, how they are fresh start. Whatever about putting behind us the laundering the money and what they want to crimes of the past, post-Good Friday Agreement spend it on. I remind them that free speech has there cannot be any acceptance of ongoing its moral duties as well as its legal rights. I also criminality. remind them that a terrible price was paid by The peace process was built on the basis of Eamonn Collins for the right of the Irish people acceptance of the integrity of the other side’s to know the truth about the IRA and its leader- quarrel. It was about burying the hatchet and ship, and for the right of the media to publish the working together to agree a settlement, which truth. The Provos exacted that price. would remove the cause of the conflict. It I would have thought that any journalist, required significant concessions from all of us, the especially that small minority of journalists who release of prisoners, evacuating treasured consti- refuse to see the truth, would never forget the tutional positions, inclusion in democratic politics fate of Eamonn Collins, or for that matter forget of former paramilitaries, the demilitarisation of 1457 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1458

Northern Irish society, reform of policing and really need protectors who are battering their judicial systems, admissions of past failures and a own people to death when the mood takes them. plethora of inquiries into the wrongs of the past. It is truly a defining moment to see the people of For those Ministers close to the process — the Short Strand rise up against IRA criminality. there have been Ministers from many parties — Mo Mowlam’s dream of the peace process it has been an exercise of faith, hope and, unfor- becoming a people’s project is just starting to tunately, serial disappointment. It was a high-risk become a reality for the people of the Short investment. As David Trimble said, it was a Strand and the wider republican community. I “white-knuckle ride”. I reject the suggestion that hope the Sinn Feín leadership has the courage to the Governments turned a blind eye to crimi- listen to and hear the strong messages coming nality. The job of Governments in the process from within its own constituency. Perhaps we was to steer a ship through stormy waters, to pro- have come to a time when Sinn Feín and the rest gressively build confidence among the parties of us can at least have a shared understanding of representing paramilitaries, which would result in what is justice. an exodus from violence and the embrace of democracy and the rule of law. Minister of State at the Department of Health Many of us had “dark nights of the soul” about and Children (Mr. T. O’Malley): I join other the risks being taken with fundamental demo- speakers in deploring the murder of Robert cratic principles. We knew on Good Friday that McCartney. It would be impossible to do other- the Agreement was just a start. Sadly since then wise. Any murder is abhorrent, but Robert we have lurched from crisis to crisis but in the McCartney’s murder was particularly shocking. A round, as Mo Mowlam would say, things are murder which apparently arose from a bar room immeasurably better. I do not despair or recrimi- brawl quickly escalated into a cover up operation, nate that it has taken this long to come to the startling in both its speed and its scale. This is crunch decision for Sinn Feín on the issue of something which would normally only be under- criminality. It is a critical challenge and oppor- taken by a structured and trained organisation. It tunity for that party. For a long time we were was an automatic reflex by an organisation deter- stuck on the issue of decommissioning of wea- mined to protect its own. There was no question pons. George Mitchell once said it was the of even rudimentary justice. The first instinct was decommissioning of the mindset that mattered. to get away with it; for self-survival. Whomever they were, the people who rendered Magennis’s We are at that juncture now. bar forensically sterile are guilty of a very serious I do not begrudge or question Sinn Feín’s man- crime. They should face prosecution for their date. The whole idea of the peace process and the actions as surely as the person or persons who Good Friday Agreement was that Sinn Feín were guilty of stabbing Robert McCartney and would embrace politics, that politics would work Brendan Devine should face prosecution. for its members and that they could legitimately In order for such prosecutions to be successful pursue their political aspirations through totally and in the regrettable absence of physical evi- non-violent means. Never for a moment did we dence, witnesses will have to take the stand imagine that thuggery and criminality would against these men. I am happy to respond to the replace the military campaign as a modus motion by adding my voice to those of other operandi. public representatives who have encouraged As one who engaged with Sinn Feín in good those with knowledge of this crime to give state- faith as a Minister in respectful negotiations I ments to the investigating police so that the urge those in Sinn Feín and the many thousands justice in the courts sought by the McCartney of people who support them to be worthy of the family can be achieved. trust which I and many others placed in them in When laws are drafted and enacted in this the past ten years. They should not use weasel House or any other parliament in the world, we words in responding to the McCartney family. build in protections to ensure that no one can be They should seize the opportunity to take a new convicted without compelling evidence. However, road for the republican movement. Peace with as legislators we are particularly affronted when justice has become a Sinn Feín mantra. For too those protections are abused by the guilty to prolong justice has been a one-way street. Human tect themselves from conviction for their mis- rights was something it demanded; not something deeds. Destroying evidence and intimidating wit- it ever imagined would be expected of it. How nesses hits at the very foundation of a criminal else could the barbarity of punishment attacks on justice system. Although the situation seems young dysfunctional youths be squared with bleak at present, I hope and believe that justice human rights? It is difficult to understand why the will be done in the end. The demands of the wider republican community has given the IRA McCartney family should not and must not be immunity for those terrible crimes over many ignored and the will of the people cannot be years? ignored. The brave McCartney sisters are not only pos- When those accused of the crimes which took ing compelling and uncomfortable questions for place in Magennis’s bar come to justice, they will Sinn Feín, they are posing the same questions to face the consequences of their actions. Are they their own community. They are asking if they so far removed from any sense of morality or per- 1459 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1460

[Mr. T. O’Malley.] slaughtered without compunction. I support the sonal responsibility that they are more content to motion. expend their energies on protecting themselves and yet damage the cause to which they claim Mr. Sargent: Ba mhaith liom mo chuid ama a absolute allegiance? We deplore the summary roinnt leis na Teachtaı´ O´ Caolaín, Harkin, Finian justice of paramilitaries. This House does not McGrath agus Joe Higgins. recognise any “court martial” held by the IRA. The IRA is not qualified or mandated to try any- An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? one. Only the courts can perform that role, Agreed. operating under the laws enacted by democratically-elected representatives of the people. Mr. Sargent: This motion is very difficult in the The McCartney family has made a simple, dig- context of having met with the McCartney family, nified and consistent plea for those with infor- acknowledging and identifying in every way poss- mation to co-operate with the police. We can only ible with the situation in which they find them- imagine the strain which the events of recent selves. The sisters of the late Robert McCartney weeks have placed on the family. They have and his partner, Bridgeen, it must been acknow- found themselves not only bereaved but suddenly ledged have been an inspiration to us all to on centre stage as spokeswomen for their com- uphold justice with clarity, without ambiguity and munity. I hope they are drawing strength from without being a prisoner of whatever condition- the support they are receiving. It is evident in the ing any of us have picked up along the way. The House today, as it was last night, that there is lesson I have learned from the McCartney family ´ almost unanimous support for this motion. is that Daíl Eireann can do nothing other than The people of the Short Strand too have found recommend that people go to the PSNI. To do themselves in agreement on the McCartney case, anything else would indicate a lack of respect for which represents a fundamental moral choice and the laws which people voted for and the insti- a key political decision for the party most impli- tutions of the State here or those in the North, cated in it. They have come out publicly in sup- which were copper-fastened by the Good Friday port of the McCartney family, standing in vigil on Agreement, and were only to be changed having set that reference point in place. the streets of their community, wanting justice to The reason we are here is to ask why people be done, appalled that anyone, much less their are not coming forward to give evidence. People erstwhile political leaders, should shield the per- are scared and the question of why they are petrators from the law. Their comments have scared must be answered here tonight. There is prompted Sinn Feín to make some public state- no doubt that they are scared of the summary ments. However, in those statements and in the killings, beatings, intimidation and the harass- amendment which they presented to this House ment of family members. They are also scared on this motion, Sinn Feín does not accept the core when even former Sinn Feín members such as issue, which is the need to work with the Police Martin Cunningham are derided by Sinn Feín Service of Northern Ireland. members on his council when he called for Instead of leading, Sinn Feín has taken the justice. I am sure people do not need to be back seat hoping all of this will go away. Much reminded of the various atrocities perpetrated by hard work on the ground has gone into the loyalists, republicans or state forces but people reform of the police service in Northern Ireland. are scared. With no help from Sinn Feín, local communities I was in Belfast at the weekend and found that have nominated representatives to district polic- people cannot accept that Sinn Feín is serious ing partnerships to work with the policing board about the policing issue given that the party to deliver a service which can inspire the confi- knows members of the Provisional IRA have dence of all the community. No one is asking Sinn gone to the police with their solicitors following Feín to make a leap of faith on policing, only to car crashes, burglaries and so on. The police have co-operate with the fundamental role of the pol- been there and republicans are dealing with the ice in bringing the perpetrators of a heinous crime police at one level. Therefore, it is important that to justice. it is taken into account. People find it hard to We have seen what can happen in a community accept that this is anything other than cold- where public support for policing is obstructed. It blooded murder when, whatever about the orders allows, and is meant to allow, a situation where given to kill Robert McCartney and attempt to paramilitaries are themselves entirely beyond the murder Brendan Devine, an order was certainly law. That attitude was the critical factor in the given to undertake a forensically sophisticated murder of Robert McCartney and its attempted clean-up afterwards. People also find it hard to cover-up. That is why it has such implications for see this murder as anything other than a calcu- society and the peace process as a whole. lated attempted to exert control on the com- However, the McCartney family, the people of munity. Why was no ambulance called? Only for the Short Strand and the plain people of Ireland the passing police patrol, we would be discussing will no longer stand for those who set themselves two murders tonight. up as an alternative judge, jury and executioner This vicious murder and attempted murder at the expense of justice for an innocent man brings into sharp and inescapably clear relief a 1461 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1462 dual reality in regard to the definition of what a who have sullied the republican cause are made crime is and the constitutional definition of a to account for their action. crime. We must go beyond that. Due to this dual Given that we wish to see truth and justice for reality, the Daíl is not singing from the same the McCartney family, we should not close any hymn sheet with regard to what justice is and how avenue through which information or evidence to achieve it. This day of reckoning was bound to can be brought to light. Sinn Feín has not sought come. Now it is here. I appeal to Sinn Feín, in the to close any avenue. People have gone to the interests of everybody, to seize the day and the PSNI and no doubt others will do so. That is their challenge and recognise this reality. Justice will right and nobody should stand in their way. There not be done unless the police are assisted with are others who do not trust or support the PSNI, their inquiry in every way. This will in itself be not because of what Sinn Feín says but because a catalyst for transformed and fruitful progress of their experiences and that of their communities towards the full implementation of the Good at the hands of the Northern state. For those Friday Agreement, which is our common goal. people, there are other avenues which can and I urge the Government to recognise that we are must be used if they have relevant information. still in a sensitive political situation. This debate This fact has been pointed out by the is not the most helpful way of dealing with it. We McCartney family who have said that those with should be dealing on a one-to-one basis. Oppo- valid reasons for not going to the PSNI should go sition parties have been excluded from the pro- to a solicitor, the Police Ombudsman or whoever cess for too long. with whom they are comfortable. Mr. Hugh Orde said today he would encourage people to go CaoimhghınO´ Caolaín: I move amendment ´ through a third party if they did not feel confident No. 1: about going to the PSNI directly. He compared it In the last paragraph, after “police” to insert to his experiences in London where “some com- “or, for those who do not support or trust the munities who did not trust us” would go through PSNI, to bring forward any information they third parties. may have to the family, a solicitor or any other The PSNI also recognised this reality when it authoritative or reputable person or body,” began the re-investigation of the loyalist killing of Seań Brown in Bellaghy, County Derry. It issued On my own behalf and on behalf of my fellow an appeal which encouraged people to use a Sinn Feín Deputies, I extend deepest sympathy named firm of solicitors or the Pat Finucane to the McCartney family. The brutal murder of Centre to bring forward information as an alter- Robert devastated a family and shocked a local native to dealing directly with the PSNI. Deputy community deeply. I met the McCartney family Kenny’s efforts last evening to portray this other- and Robert’s partner in Leinster House last week wise merits only contempt. I note that this and I salute their courage and determination to evening it has been announced that the Police achieve truth and justice. Ombudsman will take statements on the murder As the Sinn Feín leadership locally and of Robert McCartney. nationally has done many times, I reiterate the Sinn Feín supports the thrust of the Fine Gael call for anyone with information on this murder motion. We do not wish to delete a word of it. and the circumstances surrounding it to come for- However, in failing to recognise a reality that ward with that information and actively to assist even the PSNI concedes, the final paragraph the family. I wish to put on record some of what restricts the means by which information may be Sinn Feín President, Mr. Gerry Adams, said given to help bring the killers to justice. For this today: reason, Sinn Feín asked Fine Gael to accept its My clear intention . . . was to encourage amendment which does not detract from but adds those who have information to make that infor- to the motion before us. Its refusal is most mation available so that whoever is responsible regrettable. for the killing of Robert McCartney is brought Time does not allow me to respond to the to justice. I note that this has not happened. stream of party political invective against Sinn And although many people have come forward Feín last night and tonight. The refusal of the — others have not, particularly some who may Fine Gael Party to accept a reasonable prop- have been directly involved in Robert’s mur- osition, and its contributions and those of other der. In my view these people must give a full Members of the House, shows what can only be account through whatever conduit they choose. called a cynical exploitation of this serious issue I want also to restate with absolute clarity for the narrowest of political motives. that whoever killed Robert McCartney should Misinformation has been flung around the come forward and take responsibility for this. Chamber, not least by the Minister for Foreign That is what I meant when I said that if I was Affairs. Last night he stated: “The only infor- involved I would make myself accountable to mation that will help put the killers of Robert the courts. So far Robert McCartney’s killer McCartney behind bars is information given has not had the courage to do this. Self-preser- directly to the PSNI which will lead to statements vation and selfishness will not prevail in this that can be used as evidence in a court of law.” case. I am not letting this issue go until those The Minister had to alter his emphatic position 1463 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1464

[CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín.] absence of war. It means that communities and when the PSNI itself recognised that there were individuals are free from intimidation, regardless other ways to bring forward information. The of where it originates. Robert McCartney’s mur- Minister who, like so many others, was blinded der requires us to confront that truth. Watching by his deep rooted antipathy towards Sinn Feín the participants in the peace process over many was obliged to do a complete U-turn today and years, in which many people were involved, I face reality when he said people could use other often thought very few women were involved. In avenues as well. terms of conflict resolution, women often have a The logic of that U-turn and of all the infor- different perspective, not better or worse, just mation before the House is that every Deputy different. It has taken the women of the who truly wants to see justice served in this McCartney family to make us confront the truth deplorable case should accept and support the about intimidation and fear in communities. That amendment put forward by the Sinn Feín recognition is a significant step in moving the Deputies. If this essential amendment is defeated, peace process forward. we must, regrettably, withhold our endorsement of the motion, only because it is too narrow in Mr. F. McGrath: I thank the Ceann Comhairle its construction. for the opportunity to speak on this important Make no mistake, we are not interested in motion. I met the McCartney family last week in engaging in a party political battle on this issue. Leinster House. I gave them a commitment that Some may be satisfied with a headline tomorrow I would support them in their efforts to get justice such as “Sinn Feín isolated” as an outcome of this for their brother. That is why in this debate I wel- debate. However, I believe the majority of people come the opportunity to support them and once are interested in truth and justice for the again offer my deepest sympathy. bereaved and that is what Sinn Feín will continue This horrific murder must be dealt with and the to pursue. perpetrators brought to justice immediately. Regardless of politics, this must be faced. I also Ms Harkin: I am pleased to have the oppor- ask that the political parties in this House and tunity to make a brief contribution to this dis- other places not use the murder of an innocent cussion. What was different about the murder of man to score political points. This debate is about Robert McCartney? Why is this crime on every- the murder of Robert McCartney and the best body’s lips? There have been many murders per- way for his family to get justice. I urge those try- petrated by all sides. There have been many vic- ing to slip in other issues to respect the feelings tims and the devastation of their families and and sensitivities of the families. friends was no less than that of the McCartneys. From my experience of working on the Joint Certainly, the fact that the murder occurred Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and directly after the Northern Bank robbery had an Women’s Rights, particularly on the sub-commit- impact. The utter viciousness of the crime tee on the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of coupled with the intimidation and bullying of witnesses were critical. However, the courage of 1972 to 1974, it is important to always put the Robert McCartney’s family, who faced down that victims and their families first, at the top of the intimidation and who were supported by the local agenda. I again urge caution, sensitivity and community, has brought us to this point tonight. respect for the family’s feelings. Sadly, this is not We could have talked ourselves hoarse condemn- happening at present. ing the murder and there could have been reams I support the motion but have some sympathy of newsprint condemning the awful act but they for the amendment. We support the McCartney would not have mattered. What mattered was family. We must also take on board that sections that friends, neighbours and other decent people of the Nationalist population, after 30 years of from the area supported the family. Ultimately, violence, death, destruction and collusion, have the community shouted “Stop”. It took people problems with policing. This amendment gives power to turn the tide and to seek justice and them an opportunity to come forward. Hugh truth. Orde today agreed with that position and I I listened to Robert McCartney’s aunt on the believe that some members of the McCartney radio programme “News at One” two weeks ago family support it. Members should reflect on this and was riveted by what she said. She spoke the as we all want the McCartney family to make simple truth without spin. She described life as it progress. is and Robert’s death as it was. She forced all of Of course, there is one simple solution to this us to confront the horror of the situation. I wel- issue, namely, that the perpetrators come forward come the statement by Gerry Kelly this after- and give themselves up. This immediately deals noon, echoed by Deputy O´ Caolaín this evening, with the issue of intimidation and saves the family that Sinn Feín is behind people who are prepared protracted grief. I would say the same regarding to come forward and give evidence about the the Brian Murphy case. The people involved murder. should take responsibility for their actions. There It was suggested initially that this could under- should be no fudge on this issue. Let us also mine the peace process. I disagree. I believe it remind ourselves of the words of the great Martin will move it forward. Peace is more than the Luther King who said: 1465 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1466

Forgiveness does not mean ignoring what saw and name those who carried it out. This must was done or putting a false label on an evil act. be added as a rider to this call that people can It means, rather, that the evil act no longer come forward without necessarily going to the remains as a barrier to the relationship. PSNI.

That barrier will be removed when the Mr. O’Dowd: I wish to share time with McCartney family get justice. Deputies Perry and McManus. I deplore all sectarian violence and I call for an end to all sectarian attacks in the North. I deplore An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Is that agreed? the fact that the Oireachtas sub-committee on the Agreed. independent commission of inquiry into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings of 1972 and Mr. O’Dowd: This is a very important debate. 1973 did not receive co-operation from the It is the second time in recent weeks Fine Gael Northern Irish and British authorities. I demand has devoted its Private Members’ time to such an that the suffering of all victims be addressed. I important issue, the national issue, the ideal of call for the removal of all guns from the island of peace in our land and, particularly, the ending of Ireland. Then we will all win and the nation can violence in our country forever. I listened care- move forward. fully to the Sinn Feín speaker, Deputy O´ Caolaín. He missed the whole point of the Fine Gael Mr. J. Higgins: Clearly, when the monsters who motion, which was summed up when Deputy disfigured Brendan Devine and inflicted Kenny urged Sinn Feín to “match their pious unspeakable violence on Robert McCartney announcements with real action and let the tragic thought they could escape accountability by cyni- death of Robert McCartney be the catalyst for cally organising a forensic cleansing at the crime the separation of Sinn Feín from its criminal scene and by intimidating witnesses, they did not associates once and for all”. It is not for the iso- reckon on the intervention of six formidable lation of Sinn Feín but the IRA that the motion working class women, the McCartney sisters and is before the House. This is the real difference Bridgeen Hagans. I salute them for their resili- between all the parties in this country and Daíl. ence, courage and determination. They have chal- We want a total end forever to violence. The only lenged the intimidation of the bullies who became way to achieve this is by taking the peaceful path. so used to strutting around the Short Strand and Today, I viewed the Sinn Feín website to ascer- Markets area they thought they could literally get tain the links and connections, seamless or other- away with murder. wise, between Sinn Feín and the IRA. Perhaps it The mobilisation of the community demanding is a small matter, but for sale for \15 on the Sinn justice is a message to the paramilitary organis- Feín website — not the IRA website — was a T- ations, not only on the republican side but also shirt printed with the phrase “The IRA — the on the loyalist side, that working class communi- undefeated army” and another IRA T-shirt. I will ties in the North have had enough of the undemo- not go into other issues in regard to the website. cratic control exercised by these organisations It is when those items are no longer for sale on over their communities. It is ironic it is suggested the Sinn Feín website and when there is crystal that the McCartney family might be invited to the clarity in regard to where Sinn Feín stands on the White House by President Bush, a man who has issue of violence that there will be total accept- visited unspeakable violence on others. I warn ance of its political position. that justice for Robert McCartney will not be Sinn Feín goes on about republicanism and found in the White House or any other big house claims it is the republican party. The reality is that but on the streets and in the communities of any true democrat is a true republican because Northern Ireland in the form of the mobilisation what he or she wants is a true democracy. He or of the community that is taking place. In that she wants liberty, equality and fraternity, the true sense, a rally that may be organised outside the ideals of republicanism and the ideals of Wolfe pub where the atrocity took place should draw Tone, which sprang from the French Revolution support from throughout Belfast and Northern and which are in all our hearts and minds. All the Ireland as a whole, the trade union movement parties in this House exclude violence totally and, I hope, activists and working class people from that equation of republicanism and from Protestant and Catholic areas. nationalism, and do so without fear. We speak in I may be convinced that Sinn Feín and the IRA the House, stand before the electorate and fight are serious about their demands that justice be our fight in the political field. done when witnesses come forward and tell what Whatever reasons there might have been in the they know because this would mean the intimi- 1790s for the struggle of the United Irishmen, dation has been lifted. I will support the Sinn Feín given the economic and political position addendum to the motion so that no one who can between Britain and Ireland as they were, none assist in bringing these killers to justice has any of these reasons survives. As I said before, in the excuse for not coming forward. However, that British Houses of Parliament we have a united addendum or people coming forward in that way policy on Northern Ireland. We have a policy will only have effect if those people are prepared regarding this country and in Downing Street we to give evidence in court about the atrocity they have a Prime Minister who has no imperialist 1467 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1468

[Mr. O’Dowd.] intimidation. It is very difficult if one has been a views or ideas. For many years the British Sinn Feín voter to go out on the street and get Government has sought to have peace in our 200 or 300 people to say “Yes, we backed you. land, peace between green and orange, and it has We want an end to this”. It is going to happen sought to assist that peace. In America we have because the people will make it happen. had a very influential number of recent pres- This is the moment for Sinn Feín to grasp. I idents, in particular President Clinton, and indeed echo Deputy Kenny’s concluding comments. Sinn President Bush, who are making every possible Feín must grasp peace now, go for it and stand effort to bring about peace. They have brought in apart from the IRA. We want Sinn Feín in this Sinn Feín and their leaders and have allowed House. We want it to play its full part in demo- them to raise money in the US. There was no cratic politics but there can no longer be any need to raid banks. They were allowed to run a ambiguity about violence, death, murder and perfectly legitimate operation in another country intimidation. There must be an end to it now. because the Americans and British want what the Irish want, an end forever to violence. That is Mr. Perry: I thank Deputy O’Dowd for sharing the message. time. I am delighted to speak on this important Those of us who went to school and did our motion. Looking back at the 20th century, when bit of Leaving Certificate science learned about Fine Gael stood for a united Ireland, going back titration of chemicals. Historically one had the to Arthur Griffith, we have a long history of cam- green, nationalist colour and the orange one. paigning for that great ideal. Mixed together, unfortunately up to now the col- All of us have been inspired by the courage of our that has emerged has been the colour of Robert McCartney’s family, its bravery in stand- blood, such as was spilled a month ago in Belfast. ing up to the hoods and rejecting intimidation. We are talking of the blood of thousands of That has been a turning point in the Troubles in people who have died. What we are trying to do, Northern Ireland. The family has shown a persist- and what successive governments, oppositions ent unwillingness to accept double-speak or lame and everyone wants is a re-mixing of those col- excuses and is committed in its quest for justice. ours with the result being peace, or a white col- It is hard for us to fathom the family’s ability to our. It can be done scientifically and it can be pursue this objective so relentlessly in light of the done in the hearts and minds of the people. immense grief it has suffered. However, the This is what the people want. They are entitled family has secured one objective which thousands have failed to achieve previously. It has shown to it and must get it. The ambiguity in Sinn Feín, that the IRA can be shamed into adopting the obvious in their website and their words, must standards of behaviour accepted in every normal end. It may be that because of the grip the IRA decent society. has on the people of Belfast or certain parts of it, It is shameful that it took the IRA nearly a none of the 70 people who saw the murder could month to respond and that its members and sup- use a mobile phone for fear of dying themselves. porters played such an instrumental role initially An ambulance could not be called for fear that in destroying evidence and intimidating wit- those who called it would also end up on the nesses. For far too long, the IRA and its political street with the poor people attacked. If the grip suits have managed to evade, avoid and subvert of the IRA is so strong, Sinn Feín must walk away through the clever use of evasive language and from it. At the end of what they call the struggle, the constant portrayal of their members as vic- that violent struggle, we can talk business and tims. What the McCartney murder has shown is then walk together into the future Ireland that that in this instance the real victims of the people want. Troubles in Northern Ireland are the very com- The current situation cannot continue. We are munities the IRA claims to protect. The savagery now at the final point. The people will put up and brutality inflicted on Mr. McCartney display with this no longer. If the McCartney family a sick and psychopathic mindset. It is hard to see cannot get justice for the awful murder per- how people could be held in such high esteem in petrated on their brother because of fear and any so-called army of justice when they can so intimidation, another justice can be meted out. coldly and callously butcher a defenceless man That is the justice of the voice of the people and leave him to die. Even more disturbing has through the ballot boxes, North and South. This been the way the republican movement in Belfast must happen. If people are terrorised by the IRA was able to orchestrate a riot when police sought and fearful of them, and none can blame them to investigate the crime and how it expertly dis- when we see what has happened, then the greater posed of the forensic evidence in the immediate truth will become known. I do not know if Gerry aftermath of the atrocity. Adams is going to the White House on St. Sinn Feín cannot use the words freedom, truth Patrick’s Day but I damn well think the and justice as long as the killers of Robert McCartney family should be there because they McCartney remain at large. Any organisation speak for all of us. which objects to or frustrates the investigation of There is no doubt that we want an end to the this crime by the police and the prosecution of violence. We support the McCartney family in its the wrongdoers by the courts can play no part in struggle. It is very difficult to stand up to fear and the normal political processes. Such organisations 1469 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1470 should be shunned and excluded until they clearly acknowledged. He was an innocent man having a demonstrate an understanding of the basic drink with his friend, Brendan Devine, and he requirement of transparent accountability for should have been able to go home to his family such wrongdoing. when the pub closed. Instead, he was systemati- What has also been inspirational about the cally stabbed, cut open like a gutted fish, brutally McCartney women is that they have refused to kicked in the head and left to die. This barbaric accept spin or prevarication. They have also laid act was carried out by known members of the out their objectives very clearly and will not rest provisional movement who proceeded to lock the until they have been achieved. This is one of the doors of the pub, instruct those inside not to call few occasions where I have seen the slick Sinn an ambulance and set about removing every piece Feín PR machine cough and splutter. It is also a of evidence to cover up their bloody trail as rare event to see the IRA humbled and humili- Robert McCartney lay dying in an alleyway. ated to the extent that it had to issue two state- If this killing had been carried out by a loyalist ments and go through the charade of expelling gang, Sinn Feín spokespeople would have been three volunteers. first to demand justice but the butchers of the The McCartney killing must bring home to us Short Strand belong to their organis- that it is time to end all the charades including 8 o’clock ation and Sinn Feín and the IRA the one that the IRA is the legitimate army or tried to cover up the truth by pre- that it deserves to be recognised as having the tending this was nothing more than a drunken various organisational elements associated with brawl. They denied involvement until the press- the Irish Army in this State. There is no place for ure built to such a point that denial was fruitless. the IRA or its structures in modern Ireland and The provisional movement has been forced to the sooner it closes camp and removes the cloud give ground for weeks in the face of the dignified of shame that must hang over some of its elected grief and implacable courage of Robert members in this House, the better. McCartney’s sisters — Paula, Gemma, Catherine, The impact on the southern six counties has Donna, Clare — and his partner, Bridgeen. I pay been huge. There has been a considerable impact tribute to these ordinary women who have on the potential for economic development become extraordinary out of their tragedy. They across the Border and the opportunities which inspire in all of us hope for the future of Northern peace would bring to the whole island, partic- Ireland. Their bravery has triumphed over those ularly to the six Border counties. It is regrettable whom they rightly describe as “psychopaths with that when the opportunity for peace is there, the power”. Justice has not been delivered to them level of criminality which exists across the Border yet but there is an imperative about the has such an impact on so many institutions of the righteousness of their cause. State. This is a watershed. Sinn Feín must stand They will not give up their quest for justice and back from the criminality of the IRA and they are not alone. The community in the Short embrace the democratic process. We are going to Strand is standing with them both in their sorrow move on and we cannot have two armies in the and in their struggle for human rights. Last night State. The McCartney sisters have put it up to the democratically elected members of Belfast Sinn Feín-IRA that people will no longer tolerate City Council stood with them and tonight we, the the situation. What was covered up was entirely democratic community of Daíl E´ ireann, also regrettable and would not have been revealed but stand with them. for the sheer determination of the McCartney sis- The provisional movement has for so long held ters to seek justice. There is now no place for the sway in communities such as the Short Strand but IRA. That has impacted on the economic it is under pressure. Following all the punishment development of Sligo and all the Border counties. beatings, intimidation, exiling, extortion and Fine Gael has had a long history campaigning for other criminality, the claim of being the protector a united Ireland and it is regrettable that thou- of this community, which the IRA has made for sands of people lost their lives for no gain. Pun- years, has finally been exposed for what it is, a ishment beatings, the recent back robbery and lie. There is no justification for the ongoing exist- racketeering have diminished Ireland’s repu- ence of the IRA and no case whatsoever for an tation abroad but I hope prosecutions will follow. armed conspiracy that shelters within its ranks The cover up that took place in Belfast with the the murderers of Robert McCartney. No matter removal of forensic evidence is regrettable but I what claims its members make, they are not the am confident witnesses will come forward and the defenders of nationalist communities. people responsible will be brought to justice and The record shows that the IRA has killed more serve their time. This is an important motion and people than the combined forces of the UDA, it is important that Sinn Feín-IRA should get the UFF, UVF, RUC and the British Army. It is esti- message. We have a solid mandate to debate this mated that more than 400 Catholics died at the issue, as have the people of Ireland. It is time hands of the IRA. The recent revelations by Sinn Feín-IRA listened and took heed. Richard O’Rawe about the H-Block hunger strike and the role of the army council show that Ms McManus: The killing of Robert when it comes to its own members, the IRA has McCartney has left a family without a father, a acted with breathtaking callousness. Men died on son and a brother and this terrible loss must be hunger strike, according to O’Rawe, because 1471 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1472

[Ms McManus.] criminal act were not deserving of the usual pro- Gerry Adams, on behalf of the army council, tection offered to those who present themselves prevented them from accepting a deal offered by as volunteers of the IRA. The character of these the British Government. History may judge that men was well known to the local community, revelation in the future but history is being made despite the protection they continued to enjoy by the McCartney family, who have challenged through their membership of that organisation. all of us to confront the role, purpose and The courage, determination, dignity and honesty methods of the provisional movement. There is of the McCartneys has stirred in us all a passion- an obligation on us to support them in every way ate desire to see their wishes fulfilled and the we can until the killers of their brother are murderers indicted and convicted. brought to justice. The witnesses and evidence necessary for this People are not only fearful about going to the to happen is readily available. There were report- PSNI. When Robert McCartney and his friend edly 72 witnesses to this crime, 50 of whom were were attacked in Magennis’s bar on 30 January in the bar at the time. Some, if not many are in a and the subsequent events took place, fear of the position to offer key evidence against the per- thugs, not the PSNI, stopped people from calling petrators. Some may have been in a position to an ambulance. Until that fear is confronted, as see what happened outside the premises in ques- it has been by the McCartney family, it will be tion, where the fatal wounds were inflicted. extremely difficult to ensure the perpetrators are Under different circumstances, a witness to such brought to justice. blatant disregard for human life would have This a test of the provisional movement and I immediately called the authorities and attempted urge its members to live up to the test. Others to assist the badly injured men. Co-operation have done it previously. Most parties in this Par- with the liament have been associated with violence in the police is an automatic response in a normal past. This is the time for Sinn Feín to move for- society. ward. There are decent members in Sinn Feín However, life for these witnesses is different who are deeply disturbed by what has happened because they live under the shadow of para- and that it has not been resolved. There is still militaries, who claim status by association with fear of retaliation, intimidation and thuggery the IRA and enforce that status through menace among the community in the Short Strand, not and violence. Being witness to such a bloody fear of the PSNI. This is understandable when attack, they are under no illusions about what the one considers what has happened not only in perpetrators are capable of and would resort to Belfast but in other parts of Northern Ireland. once again to protect their selfish interests. Wit- nesses were warned that they would act contrary Minister of State at the Department of the not just to the perpetrators but to the organis- Taoiseach (Mr. Treacy): In response to the ation to which they claimed allegiance, the IRA. motion, the House has rightly declared its dismay and outrage at the appalling events of 30 January In such circumstances, only the most direct and last, which culminated in two men being left to convincing statement and actions by Sinn Feín bleed unattended on the streets of Belfast, one leaders and the IRA could redress the balance fatally. The shock initially felt by many people at and encourage those witnesses to come forward the cold blooded nature of such an horrific crime and co-operate with the police. has turned to anger at the audacity of those As the Minister for Foreign Affairs, my col- responsible, as they attempted to cover up and league, Deputy Dermot Ahern, stated last night deny their actions by intimidating witnesses, and repeated today, the litmus test for Sinn Feín threatening their own community and obstructing and the Provisional movement now is in bringing the police. forth the evidence which will mean that those As the McCartney family has made clear to responsible face the full force of the law. Whether everyone on this island, its members and the part- that is through the IRA ordering those respon- ner of Robert McCartney want justice to prevail, sible to turn themselves in or through the IRA as defined by any citizen of the new shared island, unconditionally and in a convincing manner lift- established by the Good Friday Agreement — ing the threats imposed on witnesses to the mur- justice in the courts on this island. They want der itself, or any other such action, is secondary those directly responsible for Robert to the actual result that it produces. McCartney’s death, as well as those responsible Evidence that will stand up in court is the key for the clean-up operation that followed, to face to unmasking these supposed republicans, and it police investigation, prosecution in court and the must be allowed to emerge in a manner con- appropriate custodial sentence for their appal- ducive to the rule of law and justice for the ling crime. family. The proposal to amend this motion by The people of the Short Strand and the Sinn Feín was rejected by this House, as it was Markets have responded to the McCartneys’ call in similar circumstances last night by Belfast City for justice in a manner befitting the memory of Council. Sinn Feín can point the finger at the Robert because they knew without question that PSNI, the courts, the public prosecution service he was undeserving of such a heinous attack. and any other body if it feels that it may help They also knew that the perpetrators of this muddy the waters further around this matter, but 1473 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1474 it will not work. They can direct people to other is what we have been getting from Sinn Feín sources of authority, such as solicitors, but unless regarding this murder from the beginning. the information is eventually imparted to the pol- Everyone in Sinn Feín, this House and the ice and courts, it will not help the McCartney country knows that the McCartney family is family find justice. entitled to justice, and if they are to get it, wit- As the McCartney family said yesterday, nesses must come forward to make full state- people can go to the Police Ombudsman, a solici- ments to the investigating authorities and be pre- tor, or whomever they are comfortable with so pared to give evidence in court. The authority long as they are prepared to stand up and give established by law is the PSNI, the body that can their information in court. As the Minister for investigate who did what, who saw what, who Foreign Affairs made clear last night, the lifted the video recording from the CCTV cam- Government is not playing politics with policing, era, who conducted the clean-up, who organised seeking somehow to use this case to compromise it and who participated. Those are the issues that the Sinn Feín position on the issue. It will be any police authority in any country in the world apparent to many that it is Sinn Feín that is play- deals with when there is a murder, especially a ing politics with policing in its persistent attempts brutal one of this sort. It is not acceptable for to avoid the co-operation with the police neces- Sinn Feín to come here tonight with pious plati- sary to bring the killers to justice. tudes about its support for the McCartney family The challenge facing the leaders of the republi- without being prepared to get behind this motion, can movement is crystal clear. As the Minister which is supported by every democratic party in pointed out, the double-speak of Sinn Feín will this House. That exposes it, and one questions its be tolerated no more. From misleading comments approach to this entire affair. on knife culture to the insidious killing or man- slaughter reference by Gerry Adams, Sinn Feín’s CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: Support the selfishness has been matched only by its insensi- amendment. tivity. Convincing and effective action on its behalf and on behalf of the Provisional move- Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I remind Sinn Feín that key ment is urgently required to bring these killers questions were posed during this debate to which before the courts. The McCartney family, and the no answers have been provided. Why did the people of Ireland, demand no less. former Sinn Feín Lord Mayor of Belfast attack Until justice is done, it will be impossible for the SDLP’s Alastair McDonnell for saying that Robert McCartney’s family, partner and children IRA men were responsible for the murder? Why and their friends to mourn his sad passing fully did Alex Maskey try to dismiss the murder as or properly. Let us do all we can to allow them “knife culture”? Why did he rush to condemn the opportunity to grieve for the terrible loss that police searches — the PSNI doing its job, as it they have suffered and give them the justice that does in any democratic state — of suspects’ they so obviously need to move on. I reiterate the houses? Why were there organised riots to dis- Government’s commitment to that family that rupt the police searches? Why did the IRA and the case will stay on the agenda until it is fully Sinn Feín tell people on the ground not to go to resolved to their satisfaction and that of the the PSNI? Why did Gerry Adams wait for two people of Ireland, North and South. I commend weeks until after the family had spoken out the motion to the House. before he found anything to say about the murder? Why have all 12 of those now commonly Mr. J. O’Keeffe: We in Fine Gael regret that understood to have been responsible for or Sinn Feín, despite many public announcements involved in this murder not been expelled from about its new attitude to criminality recently, has the IRA? Why were three selected? refused to join the other democratic parties in this I will return to the 12 accomplices later. House in this motion of solidarity with the However, at this stage, I would like to focus on McCartney family. Sinn Feín has again opted to the issue that is causing Sinn Feín such a problem isolate and exclude itself. As I see it, it is but a but is the main reason that Fine Gael wanted to further expression of the cynical approach evi- have this issue discussed by the House. We want denced by Sinn Feín to the murder from the it to support the McCartney family fully, beginning. unequivocally and totally, and that is why we It is utterly dishonest to suggest that there is have tabled this motion. Let us be in no doubt any comparison between the investigation into about it, the McCartney family has done a great the McCartney murder and that into the killing service to our nation, not just because of their of Seań Brown. It is also dishonest of Gerry courage in facing down the Provisional mafia — Adams to speak of being willing to go to court that goes without question and they have been to help represent those personally involved. He complimented by everyone on that — but the real knows full well that the criminal justice system service that they have rendered to the Irish does not operate like that. It is dishonest of people is that they have ripped away the hypoc- Deputy O´ Caolaín to quote Hugh Orde as saying risy, the lies, the subterfuge and falseness of the that people can go to third parties. Of course, he Provisional movement. They have given courage left out the vital words “in the first instance”. The to countless others to stand up to its thuggery and Deputy saw no point in quoting that in full. That criminality, and that is what causes it the real 1475 Northern Ireland Issues: 2 March 2005. Motion (Resumed) 1476

[Mr. J. O’Keeffe.] in confronting this, the McCartney family has problem. They did this by exposing the pseudo- provided a formula for the right kind of response patriotism, the selfish criminality and the cruel to fight these predators. They had the courage to intimidation of the greatest band of thugs ever do it and they have spoken up with simple truth seen in Ireland. and before that simple truth the double-talk falls. Essentially what we see now is the relevance of It reminds me of the line: “Beauty is truth, truth the stand taken by the McCartney sisters. We are is beauty. That is all I know on earth and all I witnessing a turning point in our nation’s affairs, need to know”. That is the simple point that has and the catalyst for that sea change has been that been demonstrated time and again in the past brave group of women, whom most of us honour four or five weeks by the McCartney family. tonight. I believe that they are going to the What is also clear is that if this matter is to be United States, and I wish them God-speed. I hope brought to an end, these killers must be brought that they will be recognised in the White House to justice and to achieve that Hugh Orde and the on St. Patrick’s Day; they are absolutely entitled Police Service of Northern Ireland will need hard to that. I am proud to have them there rep- evidence that will stand up in court. The intimi- resenting all that is decent in the Irish nation. It dation of witnesses to date has meant that those is important to look back on how this has been who want to give evidence, in so far as they do, handled by the provisional movement in its have received death threats making them stay military and political wings. quiet. The provisional movement has stooped to A major comparison is emerging between the absolute thuggery warning people not to go to the double-speak of the provisional movement and PSNI because it was IRA business but the IRA the truth as spoken by the McCartney family. We had not bargained on the brave stand taken by all know the provisional leaders whose spokes- the McCartney sisters. People are tired of the men are past masters of double-speak. They sham of these IRA pseudo-patriots prancing could give university lectures on equivocation around like local warlords in the Short Strand and double-talk but all that double-talk has been and elsewhere. seen for what it is before the simple truth spoken What has also emerged recently is evidence of by the McCartney sisters. It reminds me of the a complex web of IRA criminality uncovered by line: “Truth is great, it shall prevail; when all is the law enforcement authorities in this juris- done, the lie shall rot”. That is what is happening diction. That makes it clear that the provisional before our very eyes, and is it not marvellous to movement is addicted to criminality. There is the see it. evidence of the Northern Bank raid and other- It is clear at this stage that the brutal murder wise in this regard. The Garda investigation into of Robert McCartney brings Sinn Feín and the the money laundering operation was so thorough IRA to a crossroads. It also highlights the point one must wonder at the wisdom of the Govern- made by many speakers during this debate that ment’s willingness to ignore such activities in the Sinn Feín has an option. It can use this tragedy pursuit of a deal last December. It is clear that to break its links with a military wing and with the issue of an IRA commitment to ending crimi- criminality once and for all because all of us have nal activity was only introduced into the equation to face the facts as they are tonight, more than a after the talks had broken down, but I am not month after this murder. The killers are still walk- making any political point on that. ing the streets of Belfast. It is clear this was a My real concern is that the huge proceeds of brutal crime carried out by well-known members this criminality is to be used, and is being used, of the IRA who are responsible for hiding behind to corrupt our democratic process. It is vitally smoky mirrors. The IRA expelled three of its important that all political parties here operate members, allegedly as a token of its disgust at under the same rules and fund-raising constraints. republican ideals being betrayed, but there were All IRA criminality must be permanently ended 12 accomplices. What about the other nine? No if Sinn Feín is to be accepted as a fully democratic answers have been given on that. party. Sinn Feín must use its influence in this When they were talking about their disgust at regard and in so far as it is unable to deal with the brutal murder of Robert McCartney and the any members of the provisional movement and expulsion of three members of the IRA as a con- get them to accept that approach, those people sequence, did they give any thought to expelling must be expelled. the killers of Detective Garda Jerry McCabe, who I have made it clear to those in Sinn Feín that was gunned down in cold blood? Did that thought I want them fully involved in the democratic pro- ever occur to them? In so far as they would take cess here. I suppose in the coming days we will be any notice of any comments on that, might I sug- bombarded with posters of Sinn Feín and Gerry gest to them that they could at this stage give con- Adams celebrating Sinn Feín 100. One would sideration to that? think, particularly in the light of recent events, What is now clear from all the evidence in the that the founder of the original genuine Sinn Short Strand is that the self-proclaimed protec- Feín, Arthur Griffith, would turn in his grave at tors of the people have turned out to be the pred- being associated with this 1969 breakaway group ators of the people. Essentially, the guard dogs now calling themselves Sinn Feín. In the light of have turned into wolves. What is also clear is that the recent evidence of criminality and the enor- 1477 Natural 2 March 2005. Gas Grid 1478 mous amount raised by the provisional move- organisation that has no commitment to the insti- ment over the past 15 years, now totalling \200 tutions of this State and which has given evidence million—— over time of a dogged determination to over- throw the institutions of this State by one means CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: How dare Deputy or another. O’Keeffe dance his anti-Sinn Feín jig on the grave Recent days have shown what can be achieved of an innocent man. Shame on him. when pressure is brought to bear on the IRA and the provisional movement. That pressure has An Ceann Comhairle: Order, please. been mounted because of the truth, sincerity, honesty and courage of the McCartney sisters. It Mr. J. O’Keeffe: ——a more appropriate logo must be maintained and all of us who are genuine for Sinn Feín would be Sinn Feín \200 million democrats must continue to support the sisters because that is the amount of money the Pro- campaign for truth, honesty and justice to ensure visionals are estimated to have taken out of this that those who committed this brutal murder are country. brought to trial and put in jail. The McCartneys We have learnt since the arrest in connection deserve no less from the people of Ireland. with the Northern Bank robbery the prevalence of the underworld of IRA activities here. There Amendment put. is need for a full investigation by the Criminal Assets Bureau into the criminal activities of the An Ceann Comhairle: Will the Deputies claim- provisional movement. I want to know now the ing a division please rise? number of public houses and hotels throughout this country that were purchased with moneys Deputies Crowe, Ferris, Gregory, Morgan, O´ from Provisional IRA racketeering, laundered Caolaín, O´ Snodaigh and Joe Higgins rose. and invested in business here. There are questions to be answered by every- An Ceann Comhairle: As fewer than ten body regarding this current crisis. There are ques- Deputies have risen I declare the amendment tions to be answered by the provisional move- lost. In accordance with Standing Order 68 the ment — I have touched on some of them — but names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded they do not like them being asked. That is in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Daíl. obvious from the recent interruption, and they will not answer those questions they do not Amendment declared lost. choose to answer. That is also clear from this debate because Sinn Feín has not answered any Motion put and declared carried. of the hard questions—— Message from Select Committee. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: We have answered everything. An Ceann Comhairle: The Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service has concluded Mr. J. O’Keeffe: ——in regard to this murder. its consideration of the Finance Bill 2005 and has made amendments thereto. CaoimhghıńO´ Caolaín: The problem is the Deputy does not want to listen. Adjournment Debate. An Ceann Comhairle: Order, please. ————

Mr. J. O’Keeffe: I will not be silenced, either Natural Gas Grid. inside or outside this House, by Sinn Feín or the IRA. Dr. Cowley: I am grateful for the opportunity We have had a real opportunity through this to raise this important matter on the Adjourn- debate to commend the courage, consistency and ment. The people of Erris, who have been com- honesty of the McCartney family. In regard to the pelled to have the Corrib gas upstream pipeline Robert McCartney case the Fine Gael message is adjacent to their homes, are scared out of their simple. We want Sinn Feín to actively encourage minds. They have discovered, through the Mini- those who witnessed this appalling act to give ster’s replies to my parliamentary questions, that statements to the investigating police. That is the no independent quantified risk assessment has only effective way of ensuring that prosecutions been carried out on the Corrib gas upstream pipe- can be pursued. Sinn Feín does not have to look line which passes near their homes. too far to find the perpetrators of this crime. Most When I phoned the Department of Communi- of them are republican activists. In dealing with cations, Marine and Natural Resources, I was Sinn Feín-IRA, it is also clear that while the informed that an independent QRA was carried scales have been removed from our eyes in recent out by Andrew Johnston on 28 March 2002. times regarding the criminality of the provisional When I read the Johnston report, which the movement, we must understand, in terms of Sinn Department supplied, I was convinced that it was Feín, that we are dealing with a Marxist-Leninist not a QRA. I subsequently learned from the 1479 Natural 2 March 2005. Gas Grid 1480

[Dr. Cowley.] serious concerns. Serious health and safety ques- Minister’s replies to my parliamentary questions tions are involved. How can the residents of Erris and from Shell that the Johnston report is not be reassured? Releasing the QRA for public the QRA and is just a desk study of what the inspection would be a first valuable step and com- Department is now calling the QRA. The docu- missioning an independent QRA would also be ment referred to by the Minister as the QRA was essential. Would the Minister of State would live “in fact a quantified risk assessment report com- beside the pipeline without an independent QRA missioned by the then named developers in 2001, or where the QRA has been commissioned by Enterprise Energy (Ireland) Limited, on the developers? I would not. The people need onshore pipeline”. The QRA “was undertaken by reassurance and answers and are not getting a firm of consultants, J.P. Kenny, on behalf of the them. developer who himself had worked on the design brief for the pipeline and on which the QRA was Minister of State at the Department of based”. This is scandalous because J.P. Kenny Communications, Marine and Natural Resources conducted the QRA on his own work. Where is (Mr. Gallagher): I am addressing this issue on the independence? behalf of my colleague, the Minister for There is more. To me the old saying, “He who Communications and Natural Resources, Deputy pays the piper calls the tune,” sets the agenda Noel Dempsey. here. I asked the Minister for Communications, The Minister stated in a recent parliamentary Marine and National Resources, Deputy Noel question reply to which Deputy Cowley alludes Dempsey, to make available for public examin- that he does not intend to release the quantitative ation the quantified risk assessment report com- risk assessment carried out for the onshore pipe- missioned by Enterprise Energy (Ireland) in 2001 line as it now forms part of the deliberative pro- on the Corrib gas pipeline. He replied to my cess in connection with the application for con- parliamentary question on 1 March 2005: “Since sent to install the onshore pipeline which he has the QRA report forms part of the deliberate pro- received from the developers of the Corrib Gas cess under which Shell has sought consent to field. In these circumstances it would not be install and commission the pipeline, it would not appropriate for the Minister to release the QRA be appropriate to release the report at this stage.” at present. I do not know exactly what that means except The QRA report carried out on the onshore that for some reason the Minister does not want section of the pipeline addressed and carried out the report released. I had asked the Department an assessment on the risks present during the and Shell for this report to be released, but this operational phase of the onshore section of the did not happen. Why is it that this report is not pipeline only, that is, the section between the being released? Is there something to hide? mean low water mark and the first isolation valve People believe there must be something to hide upstream of the big trap in the terminal. The purpose of this assessment was to identify and assess when it is not being released. Is there something all risks associated with the operation of the the people are not supposed to know? Who onshore section of the pipeline. knows? The assessment makes recommendations for I also asked the Minister in the same risk reduction where appropriate and demon- parliamentary question, which was answered on 1 strates that the residual risk associated with the March, whether he thought that the Enterprise operation of the onshore pipeline have been Energy (Ireland) report was acceptable as an reduced to tolerable levels. It showed that even independent QRA since it was commissioned by in the worst case of the pipeline being ruptured the industrial promoters of the project, and and the gas being ignited, the occupants of a whether he would consider commissioning an building 70 metres away would be safe. The independent QRA in view of the health and design of the pipeline means that the risk of such safety concerns of the residents in the Erris area. an event or any other type of gas escape is infini- I ask that again because I did not get an answer tesimally small. The Deputy will be aware that to it. The Department of Communications, the QRA formed part of the information supplied Marine and Natural Resources is responsible for by the developers to the Minister’s predecessor, this situation and for the safety of the residents Deputy Fahey, with their application to construct since it is the Department that has given Shell a pipeline. He commissioned an independent permission to proceed. How can the Department assessment on the pipeline design code by Mr. reassure the residents, in the absence of an inde- Andrew Johnston, a very reputable petroleum pendent QRA, that everything is all right and pipeline consultant. Mr. Johnston’s study covered that it is safe to live there? design, methodology, operating conditions, pipe- One local resident who is familiar with fire line commissioning, public safety, welding and hydrants says the 10 bar water pressure produced testing, pipeline material and quality and protec- by a fire hydrant would pin a man against a wall tion from interference. at 50 yards. Yet the pipeline is designed for 345 Mr. Johnston’s report suggested certain updat- bar pressure and will be 150 bar initially. This ing of the QRA and the developers duly agreed man has to live beside the pipeline with his to carry this out. Mr. Johnston’s report was family, and he is very concerned. These are entitled Corrib Gas Pipeline Project: Report on 1481 Road 2 March 2005. Network 1482

Evaluation of the Onshore Pipeline Design Code shoulder as there is no hard shoulder on this and was submitted at the end of March 2002. The section of road. It has been upgraded but it does report, a copy of which has been provided to not comply with the NRA’s guidelines and regu- Deputy Cowley and many other persons in north- lations. There are no verges on the section of west Mayo, makes a number of recommendations road in question. for risk reduction where appropriate. Mr. The worst section of road is between Strokes- Johnston’s conclusions were as follows. The pipe- town and Tulsk and it is not much better between line design code has been selected in accordance Tulsk and Ballaghaderreen. The works carried with best public safety considerations and is out on the road have caused the an increase in appropriate for the pipeline operating conditions. speed of traffic and have moved traffic nearer to The design of the onshore pipeline is generally in the entrances of properties and the entrances into accordance with code selection and best national adjoining lands. Due to the type of upgrading and international industry practice, provided that works that are taking place, there is no room for the actions recommended in section 2.2 of his pedestrians and that is making the road even report are followed. The pipeline is considered to more dangerous than it was prior to this. As the be adequately protected from third party inter- NRA is not implementing its own road specifi- ference by burial to a depth of approximately 1.2 cations, vehicles are now being moved nearer to m and provision of marker tape above the pipe- homes and other entrances. line. The pipeline is considered to meet public There are stone walls along the boundary of safety requirements as outlined in the selected the road. If an animal knocks a stone off the wall design code, provided that the actions recom- at the moment, it will fall on to the middle of mended in section 2.2 are followed. The recom- the road. That was not the situation prior to the mendations of section 2.2 of Mr. Johnston’s upgrading works taking place as there was a grass report have been incorporated in the statutory margin on the side of the road. Who is liable approvals issued for the Corrib pipeline should a stone end up in the middle of the road? development. We have not got the type of specification that As the Minister stated, his Department is at should be in place. present considering an application for consent to At the location of Rath Cruachan national install the onshore pipeline. Both the QRA and school, the speed limit has been increased from the Johnston report will form part of this process. 60 mph to 62 mph thanks to the Department of In so far as there may be issues in the QRA that Transport. The wall outside the school is the only need further clarification, elaboration or even boundary between that and the passing heavy additional material, Mr. Johnston will provide the goods vehicles. The door of the school is within a necessary advice for the Department. couple of yards of that wall. We need a higher Prior to approval for the production of first gas specification for this section of the N5 between the Minister will need to be satisfied that con- Scramoge and Ballaghaderreen. I ask the Mini- dition 3 of his approval of the plan of develop- ster to ensure that an independent safety audit is ment has been complied with. This condition carried out. A safety assessment has been carried states, inter alia, that all production operations out, but I want a full safety audit done because regarding Corrib be conducted according to all the road does not comply with the NRA’s specifi- requirements of the rules and procedures for off- cation that it would identify the potential hazards shore petroleum production operations. It also that affect every type of road user, including requires, prior to commencement of gas pro- pedestrians and residents along the road. duction, the receipt of a letter or letters of accept- The NRA specification must outline the ance for all Corrib installations, pipelines and measures that would either eliminate or mitigate associated engineering infrastructure from the against those hazards, one of which is the intro- Minister’s auditor indicating that third party inde- duction of a hard shoulder along the section of pendent verification has been carried out and road. I want that assessment done independently completed satisfactorily on the development. of the NRA. It is critically important that it is put in place. The Minister for Transport, under Road Network. section 41 of the Road Traffic Act 1993, can Mr. Naughten: I thank the Ceann Comhairle ensure that it happens. for allowing me to raise this issue this evening. I In the longer term, I want to see the N5 prop- believe that the NRA is in breach of the regu- erly upgraded. We have been told time and again lations in the upgrading of the N5 between Scra- that the road will not be upgraded because of the moge and Ballaghaderreen in County current and projected traffic volumes. The fact Roscommon. This section of the road carries remains that under the NDP, the capital expendi- 4,500 vehicles per day, 20% of which are heavy ture on infrastructure to date has been \5 billion. goods vehicles, HGVs. The NRA guidelines state The forecast projected by the Government that the single carriageway width of such a road should be \6.25, which means we have under- should be 7.3 m. There should then be a 2.5 m spent considerably in the BMW region. The hard shoulder on the edge of the road. There are Government should use this opportunity to other specifications regarding junctions and so upgrade this key element of infrastructure to the on. I want to focus on the issue of the hard west of Ireland. The specifications currently being 1483 U´ dara´sna 2 March 2005. Gaeltachta 1484

[Mr. Naughten.] leave home or a nursing home to cast their ballots implemented by the NRA are increasing the or if they are on the register of electors but are probability of accidents, especially in County working or studying away from home on the day Roscommon. I want to see this decision over- of an election. Obtaining a postal vote was turned and a proper specification implemented intended to be a simple matter and it usually is, on that section of road. but in this instance the Minister has made it far more difficult than is necessary. Mr. Gallagher: I apologise to the House for the While people can apply for a postal vote for up inability of the Minister for Transport to attend to two days after the order for an election is this Adjournment debate. The planning, design signed, the intended signing date for the order for and implementation of national road improve- the U´ dara´s election was something of a mystery. ment projects is a matter for the National Roads I inquired of the Department and the returning Authority and the local authority concerned, in officer every day for the past fortnight as to when this case Roscommon County Council. The NRA the order would be signed, but nobody could tell published the specification for road works in 2000 me. Nı´ raibh fhios ag aon duine. Quite suddenly and the NRA design manual for roads and on Friday afternoon, the order was signed. I bridges in 2001. The NRA design manual is moni- assumed that as it was signed on a Friday, people tored on an ongoing basis and updated regularly, would have two working days and would still be as required. The specification and design manual eligible to apply for a postal vote until Tuesday. are applicable for all new works carried out on The returning officer told me that as the Act the national primary and secondary routes by local authorities. refers to “two days”, Saturday and Monday were The works on the N5 in County Roscommon counted, leaving out Sunday. between Scramoge and Ballaghaderreen con- The approach is not in line with the spirit of sisted basically of a pavement rehabilitation pro- the Act. It should have been possible to apply for ject and these works are not subject a postal vote for two working days after the order 9 o’clock to the strict design manual for roads was signed. I cannot understand why the Minister and bridges requirements which are was so secretive about signing the order or why reserved for new road schemes on greenfield he signed it on a Friday. Why did he not sign it sites. The works are subject to a safety audit. on a Monday? If he had, there would be no con- Over the past four years, extensive works on the fusion about whether Saturday was a working N5 between Scramoge and Ballaghaderreen have day. The Fine Gael Party has three candidates been carried out. The pavement was in very poor for U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta in the Galway electoral condition and a five-year pavement rehabilitation area. I told them that while I did not know on programme was developed and agreed between what date the order would be signed, they would the NRA and Roscommon County Council. The have two working days from the date to lodge the works had to be carried out between the fence last of their postal vote applications. One of the lines due to the archaeological sensitivity of the candidates went with a bundle of applications to area especially in the vicinity of Rathcroghan. apply on Tuesday but was denied the opportunity The NRA has provided funding for 2005 of the to obtain postal votes for his constituents. The order of \200,000 to advance the N5 strategic cor- Minister’s party has six candidates in the area. I ridor study on the Ballaghaderreen to Strokes- do not know if they were aware of when the order town route. It is anticipated that the study will be would be signed, but I certainly could not find completed by the end of the year. In addition to out in advance. the works outlined, the 8 km N5 Strokestown to Apart from the fact that my party has been left Bumlin Bridge project opened to traffic in 2004 at a severe disadvantage, an issue of fairness is to replace a single carriageway which had a poor involved. People who cannot attend a polling alignment and substandard visibility. booth on election day for whatever reason should be facilitated, but on this occasion it was made U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta. difficult for them to obtain a postal vote. Last Mr. McCormack: Taímid ag caint anois faoina week, the Minister introduced 35 pages of regu- ´ lań daoine nach mbeidh seans acu votaíl i dtogh- lations to govern the Udara´s na Gaeltachta elec- chańU´ dara´s na Gaeltachta ar 2 Aibreań. Taím tion and denied those of us with an interest in sa´sta go bhfuil an seans agam e´ sin a ardu´ anocht. the matter the opportunity to debate them in the Is rud uafa´sach e´ nach bhfuil seans ag cuid daoine House. I might have been able to draw to his avo´ tanna a u´ saíd i dtoghchańU´ dara´s na Gael- attention during a debate the difficulty that would tachta no´ in aon toghchań eile ach oiread. Ta´ arise in the context of postal votes. I would cer- dıóma´ orm go raibh an tAire mıćhu´ ramach san tainly have warned him to avoid signing the order a´bhar seo. I think that the Minister took his eye on a Friday afternoon as he might count Saturday off the ball, mar a deirtear. Is do´ iche go bhfuil se´ and place people at a disadvantage. sin ceart, ach ta´ bro´ n orm gur tharla se´. The Minister has a great deal for which to It is important to clarify the eligibility criteria answer to the disadvantaged, disenfranchised for the postal vote. People are eligible to apply U´ dara´s electorate. Fine Gael has been put at a for and receive a postal vote if they are unable to severe disadvantage also. 1485 U´ dara´sna 2 March 2005. Gaeltachta 1486

Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Forces, a member of the Garda or an Irish diplo- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Ba mhaith liom mat posted abroad or his or her spouse. Persons buıóchas a ghabhaíl leis an Cheann Comhairle who suffer from a physical illness or disability or agus leis an Teachta as ucht an deis seo a thab- who are studying full time at an educational insti- hairt dom dul ar an taifead faoin gceist seo. tution away from the home address at which they Ta´ iontas orm faoin gcaoi a bhfuil an Teachta are registered to vote may also be eligible for ag laímhseaíl na ceiste seo. An tseachtain seo inclusion on the list of postal voters. caite, ghlaoigh an Teachta ar an oifig eolais, agus Applications for inclusion on the electoral d’iarr se´ co´ ip de na rialachaín. Glaodh orm agus register, including the postal voters list, must be d’ordaigh me´ ar an bpointe go dtabharfaı´ na riala- completed by 25 November each year. Appli- chaín sin do´ , mar is maith liom bheith oscailte sa cation forms are readily available at county meíd ata´ le ra´. councils, corporations, post offices and public Chomh maith leis sin, ma´ sheicea´lann an libraries nationally. The statutory deadline for Teachta, gheobhaidh se´ amach cad a tharla, no´ giving effect to applications to have names bhı´ me´ sa Roinn sna Forbacha De´ hAoine. Thaí- entered in the supplement to the postal voters list nig oifigigh de chuid na Roinne chugam, agus ta´ is set out in section 15(a)(iv) of the Electoral Act su´ il agam nach bhfuil se´ ag cur i leith oifigigh na 1992, as inserted by section 7(c) of the Electoral Roinne go raibh siad ar aon bhealach ag gnıómhu´ Amendment Act 2001. It states: “An application go polaitiu´ il. D’iarr siad orm an tordu´ a shıńeaíl by an elector to have his name entered into the mar rinne siad an ca´s go raibh daoine ag iarraidh supplement to the postal voters list received by go sıńeofaı´ e´ le go bhfeádfaidı´snafo´ graı´ a chur the registration authority on or after the third day sna nuachtaín aítiu´ la. Nı´ raibh a fhios ag eínne i after the dissolution of the Daíl at a general elec- bhFianna Faíl ceń uair a shıńeofaı´ e´, agus tion or on or after the third day after the date of deánaim an iarraidh seo leis an Teachta. Bhı´ sei- the making of the order appointing polling day at sean nı´ ba mho´ ar an eolas faoi chu´ rsaı´ vo´ tanna aDaíl by-election or a presidential, European or poist na´ me´ feín. Go deimhin feín, mar a thuig- local election or an election to U´ dara´s na Gael- feadh se´ feín, nı´lse´ sna rialachaín. tachta or a referendum shall not have effect in At the outset, I wish to clarify that matters relation to that election or referendum.” relating to the electoral register and supplements Under section 28 of the U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta to the register do not fall under my remit as Mini- Act 1979, as amended by section 1 of the U´ dara´s ster for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs. na Gaeltachta (Amendment) Act 1999, elections I propose in my reply to outline the facts about to an tU´ dara´s shall be held as may be prescribed the register of electors before moving on to out- by regulations made by me as Minister. Section line my role in the U´ dara´s na Gaeltachta election. 31 of the 1979 Act sets out that persons are The register of electors is provided for under entitled to vote on the basis of qualifying to vote section 13 of the Electoral Act 1992 and forms in a local election in a Gaeltacht constituency. part of the remit of my colleague, the Minister ´ ´ for the Environment, Heritage and Local The generality of Udaras regulations which I Government, Deputy Roche. Specific responsi- have prescribed follow the regulations agreed for bility for compilation and publication of the elec- the local election code. The rules pertaining to toral register rests with local authorities. A new the register of electors, which are outside my register is compiled each year, published in draft remit, also apply. ´ ´ form on 1 November and made available for I signed an tOrdu´ um Udara´s na Gaeltachta inspection at several places including the offices (An La´ Vo´ taıóchta) 2005 last Friday, 25 February of a county councillor or county registrar, public 2005. Applications to the registration authority to libraries, post offices and Garda stations. Amend- have names entered on the postal voters list ments to the register can be made until 25 Nov- therefore could be accepted until close of busi- ember. An amended register is published in ness on the following Monday, 28 February. The February of the following year. A person who is U´ dara´s elections regulations require that statu- qualified to vote but has missed the deadline to tory notice of 28 days be given of any election include his or her name on the register can apply and in the case of the election announced for 2 to be included in a supplement to the register. April 2005, this means before Saturday, 4 March. This will enable him or her to vote at any election To publish the statutory notice in the regional or referendum held during the year provided the newspaper network it was necessary for me to relevant application has been made at least 13 sign sooner rather than later. days, excluding Sundays and bank holidays, It was deemed important to reach the local before polling day. media on this occasion in light of significant The Deputy referred in particular to the list of changes to the nomination procedures, namely, postal voters which, with the list of special voters, that the former system of deposits no longer constitutes a supplement to the register of elec- applies but nominations must instead be sup- tors. While it is the norm during an election to ported by a certificate of political affiliation or vote in person at an official voting centre, a per- assented to by 15 members of the relevant con- son may be eligible for a postal vote if, for stituency. While the changes are significant in example, he or she is a member of the Defence terms of the U´ dara´s election, last run in 1999, 1487 Child Care 2 March 2005. Services 1488

[E´ amon O´ Cuı´v.] centres and cre`ches. They are usually paid for a they do not consist of anything new in terms of period of three years to allow a facility to become the existing local election code. financially sustainable. The departmental review proposes that after September next only groups Mr. McCormack: Why did the Minister not sign in very disadvantaged areas will receive staffing them the previous Monday? grants. The letter asks child care facilities to review E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Applications for entry in that their services and their fee structures so that, register were sought publicly in November and where possible, they may become sustainable incorporated in the official register of electors from 1 September 2005 through a fair and equit- published on 1 February 2005. It was open to per- able fee structure. In other words, if one does not sons to apply at any time between that date and fall into the “very disadvantaged” category, one prior to 1 March for inclusion to the supplement has until 1 September to become financially sus- to the postal voters list which will apply to the tainable by pushing up fees. The Department will ´ Udara´s election on 2 April 2005. take away the staffing grants, and child care facili- Advance notice was given of my intention to ties must increase their fees to make up the ´ hold the next Udara´s election in April 2005 as far shortfall. back as 8 July 2004 in my response to Parliamen- ´ This is a simple cutback and an attempt to tary Question No. 345 to Deputy O Snodaigh. It starve child care services in County Kerry and was also highlighted in my press release of 7 elsewhere of funding. It is an attempt to force January 2005 relating to the review of powers and ´ child care services to increase their fees and to functions of Udara´s. make child care less affordable to families and I chose a Saturday for the poll to facilitate per- lone parents. sons who work or study away from home during I raised the matter regarding the situation at the week, and this will once again prove success- the Tı´rnanO´ g child care service in Ballydes- ful. The purpose of the vote list is to franchise mond, on the Cork-Kerry border, which is experi- persons who are generally not available at their encing funding difficulties. I recently received place of registration and not to accommodate representations from South Kerry Development sporadic absences. Partnership on this same issue. The child care co- An Ceann Comhairle: The Minister has gone ordinator there informs me that this threat to three minutes over his time. staffing grants has caused untold worry and confusion in pre-school, cre`che and child care facili- E´ amon O´ Cuı´v: Arising from a meeting today ties in County Kerry. of my officials with returning officers, a substan- At a recent meeting of community child care tial number of applications was received in groups in Kerry, concerns were expressed about advance of the statutory deadline. the plan to remove staffing grants. It has been reported to me that standards cannot be main- Mr. McCormack: Why did the Minister not sign tained in these facilities if EOCP funding is in it the previous Monday? jeopardy. Child care committees are reaching burn-out and are already finding it difficult to get An Ceann Comhairle: The Deputy’s matter new staff. According to local child care centres, took up 13 minutes when only ten were allotted. the removal of staffing grants would result in reduced places for children, further increases in Mr. McCormack: My question was not fees, reduced opening hours, staff redundancies answered. and the closure of some services. Will the Government sit back and ignore such Child Care Services. warnings from those who work at the coalface of Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: I welcome the oppor- the child care sector? What does the Government tunity to raise this important issue this evening. mean by “disadvantage”? It is a very woolly state- Unfortunately, it is not the first time I have pur- ment. There is disadvantage in every area. It sued the matter in this House, which refers to the could apply to rural or financial disadvantage. proposed removal of staffing grants from certain The Minister should outline what he means. Such child care facilities in County Kerry from next talk of disadvantage is merely a cover-up for this September, under the equal opportunities child- cutback. My party leader, Deputy Pat Rabbitte, care programme, EOCP. raised the matter this morning, and it was rich to In recent months many community based, not hear the Taoiseach say the Government is giving for profit, child care centres and services in the money through child benefit. Child care County Kerry and elsewhere received letters facility funding was not meant to come under from the Department of Justice, Equality and child benefit. Law Reform stating that a review was being The child care co-ordinator in Kerry has rightly initiated which would, in effect, result in the loss pointed out that these changes, if introduced, will of staffing grants from next September. have two major consequences. The most vulner- These grants are used for staff wages and costs able families in the community will lose out, and are a vital source of income for child care especially in rural and isolated areas, which are 1489 Child Care 2 March 2005. Services 1490 disadvantaged areas. Unemployment will phase of the EOCP has increased from \317 mill- increase because parents will not be able to avail ion to \499.3 million, or by 57%, the most recent of affordable child care when in training or edu- increase being \50 million in additional capital in cation. They will have to stay at home and care the budget for 2005. I am grateful to my Govern- for their children when their local cre`che ment colleague, the Minister for Finance, Deputy increases its fees as a result of the Minister’s Cowen, for making that possible. proposals. I contrast that, however, with the sad state of There is disillusionment among child care assistance in this area under the previous Govern- workers at this decision. They are being placed in ment. I can only describe it as very sad. a financial straitjacket by this so-called review of staffing grants. Many cre`ches and child care Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: That is the past. The centres will be unsustainable and will have to Minister should not go back. close their doors. I appreciate the Minister came in for the Mr. McDowell: Some people have a brass neck Adjournment debate. He should not pursue this to raise these issues when in those days nothing review and should assure child care facilities was done. Since budget day last December, I have around the country that staffing grants will not be already made one significant announcement of removed and that he will allow such facilities to over \25 million in additional capital funding and maintain and enhance their existing level of I expect to make another such announcement in services. the near future. The programme has already created more than 20,000 new child care places Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform and a further 16,000 have been commissioned (Mr. McDowell): I thank Deputy Breeda Moyni- using EOCP funding. The programme has han-Cronin for affording me the opportunity to exceeded our expectations in terms of achieve- update the House again on this issue. I under- ment. The programme also includes a measure stand that the matter was also raised on the which offers grant assistance towards the staffing Order of Business. costs of community-based child care services The equal opportunities child care programme which offer child care services to disadvantaged is the Government’s key response to the need to parents who may be in employment, education or develop child care to help to support the needs training. More than 775 community based, not- of parents, with a particular emphasis on those for-profit projects receive ongoing staffing grant who may be in employment, education or training assistance and about \30 million of EU and to prepare for employment. The programme for Exchequer funding goes towards this measure Government and the progress of the equal oppor- each year. tunities child care programme represent confir- It was originally envisaged that some groups mation of the Government’s commitment to would receive such funding for a period of three developing child care services and to keeping years as they moved towards sustainability, which child care at the forefront of its social agenda. is normally achievable if the groups are operating The EOCP has both an equal opportunities and at full capacity and with a level of fees which a social inclusion perspective and aims, among enables them to break even. Some of the children other things, to increase the supply of centre- who go to these centres are disadvantaged while based child care places by 55% by the prog- other parents are in a position to pay the full ramme’s end. The broad objectives of the EOCP commercial rate for the child care they receive. are to improve the quality of child care, to main- Other groups, particularly in very disadvantaged tain and increase the number of child care facili- areas, are likely to offer services to a client group ties and places and to introduce a co-ordinated who are unable to meet the economic fee struc- approach to the delivery of child care services. ture and these services will, therefore, require The first meeting of the expert working group ongoing staffing grant support to ensure that they on child care established under Partnership 2000 can continue to support the child care needs of was held within a month of the Government their disadvantaged client group. This is partic- changeover in 1997. I have to say, without any ularly important in assisting families to break the element of rancour, that all the evidence shows cycle of disadvantage. that, unlike the case of the previous Government, Deputy Breeda Moynihan-Cronin will be child care has been high on the agenda of the aware that levels of staffing grant assistance have present Government since that time. The been maintained and guaranteed at existing levels Government has moved consistently, promptly until 31 August 2005 for all groups, regardless of and purposefully to facilitate the development of circumstances, whose first three-year funding had a top quality child care programme throughout elapsed, unless the level of service being offered the country. The achievements in child care are a has declined significantly below that which they testament to that commitment and have helped had originally undertaken to deliver. in no small way to support the child care needs My Department is examining a wide range of of parents in employment, education and training options to ensure that staffing grant assistance is as well as helping many parents to break the cycle provided on an ongoing basis and in a fair and of disadvantage. Since it was launched in 2000, equitable manner for those services which cannot the total funding package for the 2000 to 2006 support themselves with a fair, equitable and 1491 The 2 March 2005. Adjournment 1492

[Mr. McDowell.] Mr. McDowell: ——when this programme economic fee structure due to the level of disad- started—— vantage of their client groups. Every service, especially those in Kerry about which the Deputy Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: My constituents are is concerned, will be given an opportunity to telling me about it. present its case before any change is made to Mr. McDowell: ——to over \141 per child per funding levels. I hope to be able to increase the month this year. This payment, made every level of funding for those services which are at month for every child aged under 18 years who the bottom of the scale — the most is still at school, affords considerable additional disadvantaged. We hope to be in a position to financial support to parents above what was avail- take firm decisions on future arrangements in the able in 1997 and gives all parents options con- near future and as soon as we do, we will advise cerning the child care arrangements they consider all groups accordingly. Every Deputy will agree suitable for their family. with me that it is in the interests of society to It is only fair to emphasise that the EOCP has ensure that the ongoing financial supports which been central to the development of child care are made available under the equal opportunities over the last five years. We all recognise that the child care programme specifically target those child care sector has flourished over the past who experience the greatest disadvantage in seven or eight years. society. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: Agreed. It is also noteworthy — again I emphasise this by way of contrast to what happened before this Mr. McDowell: It will continue to do so under Government took office — that the Government the careful stewardship of this Government which has increased child benefit by 272% since 1997. has recognised, for the first time, the need to fos- This is the uncaring Government which the left ter the sector and which has provided significant has castigated for many things, according to what funding, both directly and indirectly, to support we read in the newspapers. that growth. The range of supports available under the EOCP and in the broader range of Government actions to support the child care sec- Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: They would not be tor is a testament to its commitment — and a con- complaining unless they had a problem. The trast to the performance of the previous Govern- Minister should be fair. ment — to support parents in meeting their child care and employment needs for the economic and Mr. McDowell: Child benefit has increased by social betterment of our country. 272% since 1997. It has risen in real terms from a Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: I am not dreaming it minimum of \54 per child per month in 2000—— up and neither are my constituents.

Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin: I am not dreaming up The Da´il adjourned at 9.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. these stories. on Thursday, 3 March 2005. 1493 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1494

Written Answers. fied organisms; the action being taken by her Department to trace the full consignment; and if The following are questions tabled by Members she will make a statement on the matter. for written response and the ministerial replies [6779/05] received from the Departments (unrevised). Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): An interdepartmental-interagency Questions Nos. 1 to 11, inclusive, answered working group was established within my Depart- orally. ment in October 2003 to develop proposals for a Questions Nos. 12 to 63, inclusive, resubmitted. national strategy and best practices to ensure the co-existence of GM crops with conventional and Questions Nos. 64 to 73, inclusive, answered organic farming. Part of the group’s work prog- orally. ramme has been to examine the economic implications of such farming practices. Food Industry. Preliminary research completed by Teagasc indicates that the cultivation of certain crops with 74. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Agri- certain modifications may provide a financial culture and Food the number of meetings of the incentive to the Irish farmer. While strands of this Food Agency Co-operation Council in 2004; and research parallel recently completed work in if she will make a statement on the matter. other countries it does not specifically address the [6788/05] predicted costs of co-existence to the Irish farmer. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary The general conclusion of recent Danish and Coughlan): The Food Agency Co-operation UK research on the economic impact of co-exist- Council was established in 2000 under the aegis ence on farm profitability is that the costs of com- of my Department to promote the fullest practi- plying with the required thresholds for crops of cal co-operation between the State agencies maize, potatoes, cereals, oilseed rape and sugar involved in the food industry in the interests of beet vary from zero to 9% above the costs of the optimum development of the industry. The growing conventional crops. However, it should council has an independent chairman, Mr. be noted that costs described were based on Padraic White. estimates. The inaugural meeting of the council took In order to establish greater clarity in the place in March 2000 and it has met on 20 matter, as far as Irish conditions are concerned, I occasions since its inception. The last meeting have asked Teagasc to explore the possibility of took place in October 2003. It did not meet in carrying out an evaluation of the possible 2004 as a number of factors contributed to the national economic implications for the agri-food difficulties in rescheduling meetings that year. My industry from the possible use of GMOs in crop Department will shortly meet the council’s chair- and livestock production. man on a possible future work programme having In relation to tracing a consignment, EU legis- regard to the Enterprise Strategy Report and the lation which was adopted by the European Parlia- 2015 Agri-Vision report. ment and the Council in 2003 requires that all The council has played a significant role in GM products, including animal feed, be properly increasing co-operation, at formal and informal labelled and accompanied by the appropriate level, between the State agencies involved in the documentation to facilitate full traceability. food industry and has led to a number of memor- andums of understandings being agreed between Live Exports. agencies. The council has also produced a number of publications which have been well 76. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for received by the industry. In 2001 the council was Agriculture and Food the action she is taking to instrumental in the drawing up of an agreed re-open live export markets; and if she will make human resource development programme for the a statement on the matter. [6796/05] food processing industry and also produced the publication Market Trends — Implications for Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Suppliers and State Agency Initiatives. In Coughlan): Ireland exported some 130,000 live December 2002, the council’s publication A cattle last year to various destinations in Europe National Food Incident Management Plan was and also to the Lebanon, compared to 220,000 in launched. The Market Led New Product 2003. The principal destinations in Europe were Development Guide, launched in April 2003, pro- Northern Ireland, the Netherlands, Italy and vides guidance to food and drink companies in Spain. The reduced numbers in 2004 can be attri- relation to new product development best buted to buoyant prices for cattle on the home practice. market and a strong export market in beef. In addition, the focus of the Irish beef industry has Genetically Modified Organisms. been to broaden and expand its market reach at EU retail level, shifting its orientation away from 75. Dr. Twomey asked the Minister for Agri- international commodity markets and into the culture and Food her plans to evaluate the econ- higher priced internal EU marketplace. omic implications of the use of genetically modi- 1495 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1496

[Mary Coughlan.] involving over 60 positions will be moved from My Department, together with An Bord Bia Dublin to Portlaoise beginning in April 2005. A and the Department of Foreign Affairs, continues further 50 staff will be relocated to Portlaoise to seek to exploit every opportunity to expand towards the end of 2005. It is planned to proceed the market for the live trade and beef exports. As with this phased approach to the decentralisation a result of these efforts, an agreement was made process during 2006 and 2007. The largest tranche to open the Libyan market for live animals. of work-staff will be decentralised in 2008. Logistical problems have so far prevented the As also requested in the Decentralisation development of this market and it remains closed. Implementation Group report of November 2004, Another traditional third country market for Irish a separate implementation plan in relation to cattle in the past, which is currently closed to live information and communication technology staff exports, is Egypt, though the market there is open will be forwarded by 31 March 2005. to Irish beef imports. Ongoing contact is main- My Department is working closely with the tained with the Egyptian authorities in relation to OPW to have a suitable permanent headquarters trade, both in meat and live cattle. built in Portlaoise. In the meantime, temporary The live trade is a critical component to overall accommodation is being secured in Portlaoise to competition in the beef trade. It is my policy that cater for staff who will be working there in there should be free and open access to all advance of the building of the permanent head- markets, both within the EU and in third coun- quarters for my Department. My Department is tries for Irish beef and live cattle. I am fully com- also liaising with the OPW on the acquisition of mitted to ensuring that the option of exporting a suitable site in Fermoy and in Macroom. cattle live to overseas countries is maintained. Incineration of Meat and Bonemeal. Decentralisation Programme. 78. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister 77. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Agri- for Agriculture and Food if her attention has culture and Food the position regarding the been drawn to proposals to burn meat and bone- decentralisation programme within her Depart- meal from a rendering plant on the Kildare- ment; and if she will make a statement on the Offaly border; if her approval has been sought for matter. [6969/05] this proposal; her views on whether this is a safe and environmentally satisfactory procedure for Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary disposing of such material; and if she will make a Coughlan): Under the Government’s decentralis- statement on the matter. [6963/05] ation programme my Department’s Dublin headquarters will be transferred to Portlaoise; my Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Department’s laboratories in Cork and Limerick Coughlan): My Department has no regulatory will move to Macroom and my Department’s function in regard to the approval of any plant to local offices in Cork city and Mallow will move incinerate or co-incinerate meat and bonemeal. to Fermoy. The responsible regulatory authorities are the Last November, the Decentralisation Imple- local authority and the Environmental Protection mentation Group published its report to the Agency, EPA. Minister for Finance identifying the organisations As regards the case mentioned by the Deputy, to move in the first phase of the decentralisation I am aware of a proposal to co-incinerate MBM programme and included the decentralisation of as a fuel at a plant in Offaly. I understand that 392 Department of Agriculture and Food staff Offaly County Council has given a positive from Dublin to Portlaoise. A further report from response to a proposal to a change in the use of the Decentralisation Implementation Group is fuel at the plant to include MBM. I also under- expected in spring 2005 to deal with locations not stand that an application has been lodged with covered in last November’s report. the EPA for a licence review. Following the Government’s announcement in budget 2004, my Department established a EU Directives. Decentralisation Implementation Committee, 79. Mr. Crawford asked the Minister for Agri- chaired by an assistant secretary general, to plan culture and Food the progress which has been and control the process. Tangible progress has made with the European Commission regarding been made on the decentralisation of my Depart- plans to deal with the nitrates directive; if she has ment to Portlaoise already, with some 50 staff been involved in any meeting with the Agricul- having been assigned there in July 2004. tural Commission; and if she will report on In accordance with recommendations made in same. [6875/05] the Decentralisation Implementation Group report of November 2004, my Department sub- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary mitted a revised implementation plan to the Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates Decentralisation Implementation Group on 14 directive is a matter in the first instance for the February 2005 which sets out the sequence and Minister for the Environment, Heritage and proposed timescale in which work areas of my Local Government. Ireland submitted an action Department will be moved to Portlaoise. It is programme for further implementation of the intended that the work of the area aid section directive to the European Commission on 22 1497 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1498

October 2004. The Commission conveyed its improve their individual marketing capabilities view, by way of a letter of formal notice under and the board’s generic market development Article 228 of the EU Treaty issued to Ireland activities. These activities include marketing pro- dated 22 December 2004, that the action prog- motion and advertising, market research studies ramme is not complete and does not comply with and information-publications, development of the requirements of the directive and the marketing skills, quality and training. judgment of the European Court of Justice The organisation is currently undertaking an against Ireland delivered on 11 March 2004. independent strategic review of its future direc- My Department is working together with the tion. I believe that this review will enable Bord Department of the Environment, Heritage and Bia to remain focused on its mission, which in Local Government on the preparation of a turn will help secure a diverse, competitive and response to the Commission. Senior officials from export orientated food industry. my Department and their counterparts in the Department of the Environment, Heritage and EU Directives. Local Government are in contact with the rel- 81. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Agri- evant Commission officials and this process of culture and Food the position regarding her nego- consultation and negotiation is continuing. tiations with the EU on the implementation of Agreement with the Commission is necessary not the EU nitrates directive; and if she will make a only to avoid the risk of substantial fines on statement on the matter. [6965/05] Ireland but also to safeguard ongoing EU funding of rural development measures. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary It remains my objective, and it is also the objec- Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates tive of the Minister for the Environment, Heri- directive is a matter in the first instance for the tage and Local Government, to reach agreement Minister for the Environment, Heritage and on an action programme that meets the objectives Local Government. After the letter of formal of the nitrates directive in terms of safeguarding notice was received from the European Com- water quality, while also minimising the burden mission in December, stating that the action of compliance that the agreement will place on programme is not complete and does not comply farmers and safeguarding the future of the com- with the requirements of the directive and the mercial farming sector. judgment of the European Court against Ireland, the Minister, Deputy Roche, and I had dis- Food Industry. cussions with the farming organisations. Since then, officials of the two Departments have been 80. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- working together on the preparation of a culture and Food her plans to develop the mar- response to the Commission. Senior officials of keting potential of An Bord Bia; and if she will both Departments are in contact with the rel- make a statement on the matter. [6785/05] evant Commission officials and this process of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary consultation and negotiation is continuing. Coughlan): The 2004 Enterprise Strategy Group Agreement with the Commission is necessary Report to the Ta´naiste entitled “Ahead of the not only to avoid the risk of substantial fines on Curve” focused on marketing as one of two Ireland but also to safeguard ongoing EU funding development axes, the other being technology. of rural development measures. It remains my Promotion and marketing are becoming ever objective, and it is also the objective of the Mini- more critical as Irish agriculture enters a period ster for the Environment, Heritage and Local of great change with future production decisions Government, to reach agreement on an action becoming more market-led and influenced by programme that meets the objectives of the decoupling policy under the Luxembourg Agree- nitrates directive in terms of safeguarding water ment, EU enlargement and a new WTO round. quality, while also minimising the burden of com- A clearly focused strategic marketing and pro- pliance that the agreement will place on farmers motion policy is essential to assist the food indus- and safeguarding the future of the commercial try here in exploiting market opportunities. farming sector. An Bord Bia plays a leading role in supporting the food industry in the development and consoli- Land Prices. dation of export markets. It is widely acknow- 82. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Agri- ledged as doing a very effective job and its suc- culture and Food if her attention has been drawn cess in promoting Ireland as a food island is to the continuing increase in the price of farm evidenced by the record results for 2004, when land identified by the CSO, which is running way the value of food export crossed the \7 billion above the level of general inflation; her views on mark for the first time. the implications of this rise for farmers who wish In the period 1 January 2000 to 31 December to expand or for persons who wish to enter farm- 2004, public expenditure of \28.69 million was ing for the first time; and if she will make a state- allocated to funding the food marketing and pro- ment on the matter. [6960/05] motion measure of the national development plan. The measure is administered by Bord Bia Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary and covers grant assistance to companies to Coughlan): Low levels of land mobility have been 1499 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1500

[Mary Coughlan.] a financial envelope to each member state. This a long-term feature of Irish farming and the sub- envelope represents the average value of live- stantial increase in land prices in recent years and stock and arable aid premia paid in the member the relatively small acreage of land that is placed state during the three-year reference period 2000- on the market annually have not helped the situa- 02 calculated at 2002 rates of payment. The out- tion. Since 1997 agricultural land prices have come of the agreement, which will reshape the more than doubled reflecting a combination of a Common Agriculture Policy and secure its future shortage of land on the market and increasing in making it more relevant to modern society and levels of demand from agricultural and non-agri- more defensible in a WTO context, was a cultural buyers. According to the Central Statis- balanced one which addressed Ireland’s principal tics Office, in recent years less that 0.2% of agri- objectives. Among these objectives was the pres- cultural land has been placed on the open market ervation of the financial benefits achieved under for sale. The major means by which land has the Agenda 2000 agreement and the establish- changed ownership in recent years has been ment of a policy framework that will allow farm- through inheritance, generally within families. ers and the agri-sector the flexibility to adapt to The cost of purchasing land has encouraged evolving consumer and market demands and many farmers who wish to expand their international circumstances. enterprises or enter agriculture to opt for leased Index linking of the single payment scheme was land. Almost one fifth of all agricultural land is not an element of the Commission’s proposals. leased with one third of farms leasing-in some There was, however, a proposal to provide for a portion of land. reduction of up to 13% in the single payment, For meaningful farm planning, leasing is best known as degression, to meet future financing done on a long-term basis, and the Government needs. I believe one of the major achievements in has a number of incentives in place to encourage the negotiations was the removal of this proposal. this trend and to improve the overall levels of The removal of this particular provision meant a land mobility. To this end, my Department saving of some \420 million for Ireland over the operates an early retirement pension for retiring lifetime of the agreement. The compromise farmers who dispose of land either by sale, agreed was to allow the Council to review, from transfer or long-term lease. 2007 onwards, the financial situation annually if There are generous income tax disregards for budget deficits arise. farmers who lease out land on a long-term basis. At present lessors aged over 40 years of age can Animal Feedstuffs. avail of annual exemption thresholds of up to 85. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for \7,500 for leases of five to seven years and up to \ Agriculture and Food the final conclusion to the 10,000 for leases of ten years or more. This has reported importation of animal feed contami- undoubtedly encouraged the better utilisation of nated with traces of bone; and if she will make a land and facilitates better long-term planning by statement on the matter. [6795/05] farmers who wish to increase their scale of production at a reasonable cost without having to Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary purchase. Coughlan): I want to inform the Deputy that There are also a series of measures in place to there were two separate incidences, in the four help reduce start-up costs for new entrants. These week period from 18 October to 11 November include a number of generous grants and tax 2004, in which traces of terrestrial animal bone reliefs. For young, suitably trained farmers there were found in samples of the imported feed is a number of attractive schemes including an material. The affected feed material and associ- installation aid grant of \9,520, 100% stamp duty ated compound feed was subsequently relief on land, a 90% relief from capital acquis- impounded, recalled, where necessary, and ition tax, CAT, and 100% stock relief for four detained by my Department. years for eligible farmers. The first incident refers to two consignments of sugar beet pulp, totalling around 4,160 tonnes, Question No. 83 answered with Question which were imported into Dundalk Port from No. 73. Germany, via Holland, on 18 and 22 October last year. Testing carried out by the control auth- Single Payment Scheme. orities in other member states discovered similar problems with imports of this material. Following 84. Mr. English asked the Minister for Agri- a request to do so, the importer has recently sub- culture and Food the discussions she has had with mitted a proposal to my Department for disposal the EU Commission to index-link the single farm of the contaminated material. Officials of my payment; if she intends to make the payment in Department have examined and accepted the two instalments; and if she will make a statement proposal, which involves dispatch to Holland and on the matter. [6781/05] destruction by means of incineration at a power Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary generation plant in that country. The transfer of Coughlan): The agreement on the mid-term the material out of this country, which is likely to review of Agenda 2000 reached at the Council of happen in the next couple of weeks, will be under Agricultural Ministers on 26 June 2003 provided the supervision of officials of my Department. 1501 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1502

The second incident refers to a consignment of permanence, extent or severity of the non-com- maize gluten, totalling approximately 6,515 pliance, the 20% may be reduced to 15% or tonnes, imported from the USA and part dis- increased to 100%. Most of the statutory manage- charged at Foynes on 9 November and part in ment requirements have been in place for some Ringaskiddy on 11 November. The original feed years and generally farmers are aware of the var- material and the associated compound feed has ious requirements. been recalled and is currently held in stores. The In the light of submissions which my Depart- importer has challenged the Department’s right ment has received in response to its consultative to impound the material by way of a judicial document and following consultations with review, the outcome of which is expected shortly. interested bodies, my Department will shortly publish a detailed information booklet on cross- Single Payment Scheme. compliance requirements for the assistance of 86. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Agri- applicants under the single payment scheme. culture and Food her plans for cross-compliance Veterinary Medicines Regulations. under the single farm payment; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [6778/05] 87. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food the steps she will take to Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary prevent the veterinary medicines regulations Coughlan): As part of the preparations for the legislation from increasing the cost base of veter- new single payment scheme my Department has inary care for farmers here. [6977/05] prepared a consultative document on cross-compliance and has made it available to interested Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary organisations. This document takes account of Coughlan): My Department is currently finalising the requirements laid down in the EU regulations a package of amendments to the national control on cross compliance and sets out Ireland’s pro- regime for veterinary medicines. One of the key posed approach to the obligations that should be objectives of these amendments is to put in place respected by farmers receiving direct payments a regime which will address a number of difficult- under the single payment scheme. ies identified arising from inflexibilities in the Under cross-compliance requirements any existing regime. farmer receiving direct payments must respect I propose to make the prescription regime the various statutory management requirements more effective and workable by removing the set down in EU legislation — directives and regu- mandatory requirement for veterinary prac- lations — on the environment, food safety, ani- titioners to clinically examine an animal at the mal health and welfare, and plant health and time of each prescription and also by extending must maintain the farm in good agricultural and the range of outlets which may supply medicines environmental condition, GAEC. on foot of a veterinary prescription to include the It will be necessary to carry out on-farm visits licensed merchant category. to ensure that farmers respect cross-compliance While I am very conscious of the need to mini- requirements. In general the rate of inspection mise the cost of these measures to farmers, the required for cross-compliance is 1% of those primary focus of the medicine control regime is farmers to whom the relevant statutory manage- to protect public health and animal health and ment requirements or good agricultural and welfare. I am satisfied that the changes I propose environmental conditions apply. However, at to make to the medicines legislation will improve least 5% of producers must be inspected under the operation of the prescription regime and will the animal identification and registration require- provide a basis for a greater degree of price comments of cross-compliance as this is the level pre- petition in the supply of veterinary medicines to scribed under the relevant regulations. farmers, while retaining the necessary safeguards Where breaches of cross-compliance provisions in relation to public health and animal health are detected the level of penalty to be applied and welfare. will be determined on the basis of an assessment of the importance of the non-compliance set out Horseracing Industry. in the control report following the on-farm 88. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Minister inspection. If the non-compliance is due to negli- for Agriculture and Food if her attention has gence then, normally, the penalty is 3% of the aid been drawn to the claim made by a person for the year in question. However taking account (details supplied) that up to 750 brood mares of the permanence, extent or severity of the non- should be shot or retired to help solve the over- compliance, the 3% penalty may be reduced to production of foals which they claim is damaging 1% or increased to 5%. If repeated non-com- Ireland’s breeding industry; her views on this pliance is found then the penalty established will claim; and if she will make a statement on the be multiplied by three up to a maximum of 15% matter. [6964/05] of the aid. If intentional non-compliance is found then the penalty is 20% of the direct payments Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary referred to under Council Regulation 1782/93 for Coughlan): I am aware of the current ongoing the year in question. However, on examination discussion regarding a significant increase in the of the control report and taking account of the level of production of thoroughbred foals in 1503 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1504

[Mary Coughlan.] applicable to farmers who actively farmed during recent years, as reported in the Assessment of the the reference years 2000, 2001 and 2002, who Economic Contribution of the Thoroughbred were paid livestock premia and-or arable aid in Breeding and Horse Racing Industry in Ireland one or more of those years and who will continue prepared by Indecon consultants. I am also aware to farm in 2005. of the concerns expressed by the industry that Farmers who joined the 1994 early retirement some of these foals may not match the high stan- scheme, which closed to new applications in dard of thoroughbred foal we have come to December 1999, did not farm during the refer- expect in this country. ence period and cannot establish entitlements This is a matter for the industry to address and under the single payment scheme. Where they resolve. In time the effect of market forces will transferred their holdings by lease, it was the bring breeders to the realisation of the import- transferees who were actively farming during the ance of identifying and using quality brood mares reference years and it is they who will have when breeding foals. entitlements established for them. Entitlements I do not believe that it would be appropriate are attached to the farmer who was actively farm- for my Department to embark on a programme ing during the reference period, not to the land. of directing or advising breeders as to what brood During the course of negotiations with the mares they should use. I believe that market European Commission on the single payment forces will prevail and this difficulty will be scheme, Ireland secured agreement to an resolved. arrangement that will benefit family members or others who now take over holdings that were Appointments to State Boards. farmed by third parties who had leased them dur- 89. Mr. Eamon Ryan asked the Minister for ing the reference period. Farmers who take over Agriculture and Food if she will report on the such holdings, by transfer free of charge or by a gender-balance of agencies coming under the aus- lease of five or more years at a nominal amount, pices of her Department; and when she will carry could apply to the national reserve for payment out a review of these bodies in terms of gender entitlements under the single payment scheme. balance. [6984/05] Participants in the current early retirement scheme launched in November 2000, who farmed Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary during part or all of the reference period, will Coughlan): There are six statutory bodies under have entitlements in their own right and can, the aegis of my Department: An Bord Bia; before 15 May 2005, use the private contract Coford; Coillte; Irish National Stud; National clause to lease these entitlements to the young Milk Agency and Teagasc. There are currently a farmer who holds the lease of their land under total of 69 persons serving on the boards of these the early retirement scheme. In such circum- bodies, including chairpersons, of whom 12 are stances, the retired farmer must establish the women. entitlements in 2005 on a special form provided I do not have full discretion in relation to by the Department. The qualifying young farmer appointments to some boards since some may or may not have entitlements and land in his- appointments are made on the basis of nomi- her own right. nations by relevant organisations, in accordance with legislation. While appointments to the EU Directives. boards are made on the basis of technical com- 91. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- petence and experience, it is my aim to achieve a culture and Food the discussions she has had with reasonable gender balance in this regard. the EU Commission and the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Single Payment Scheme. regarding derogations under the nitrates 90. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Agri- directive; and if she will make a statement on the culture and Food if she will report on the assess- matter. [6786/05] ment carried out by her Department regarding Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary the implications of the SFP on the ERS; and if Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates she will make a statement on the matter. directive is a matter in the first instance for the [6770/05] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Local Government. Ireland submitted an action Coughlan): My Department has been aware, programme for further implementation of the from an early stage in the negotiations on the sin- directive to the European Commission on 22 gle payment scheme, that it had potential impli- October 2004. In parallel with the submission of cations for farmers who had joined one or other the action programme, Ireland also submitted a of the early retirement schemes. Those issues derogation proposal on 11 November 2004 setting were repeatedly raised by Ireland in the course out a scientific justification for operating levels of of the negotiations, and we secured agreement on up to 250 kg organic nitrogen per hectare, based certain measures to address them. on the specific characteristics of Irish agriculture. In general, the new single payment scheme The Commission has conveyed its view, by way introduced in Ireland from 1 January 2005 is of a letter of formal notice under Article 228 of 1505 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1506 the EU Treaty issued to Ireland dated 22 duction and the preservation of our status as a December 2004, that the action programme is not supplier of the highest quality products to inter- complete and does not comply with the require- national buyers. ments of the directive and the judgment of the I also addressed seminars in Beijing and Shang- European Court of Justice against Ireland deliv- hai organised by my Department and An Bord ered on 11 March 2004. My Department is work- Bia. These seminars were aimed at promoting ing together with the Department of the Envir- Irish food and drinks in the Chinese market, pro- onment, Heritage and Local Government on the viding assurance on the safety controls related to preparation of a response. food production and details on the country’s The Commission has indicated that the dero- export capability. The seminars also provided an gation application will not be considered until the opportunity for the Department, An Bord Bia action programme has been agreed. and industry representatives to directly engage with ministry, regulatory officials and Chinese Tax Code. importers and traders. 92. Mr. Bruton asked the Minister for Agri- While there I also met with representatives of culture and Food the discussions she has had with BIM and their Chinese contacts to promote and the Department of Finance regarding section 605 develop further opportunities for the export of roll-over relief; and if she will make a statement fish products to China. on the matter. [6790/05] The trade mission included some 25 representatives of Irish food and drinks companies and I Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary am confident that contacts established with Coughlan): I have not been in contact with the Chinese trading companies during the visit will Department of Finance about re-instating roll- build on the good relations between the two over relief on land acquired by compulsory pur- states. China is a huge market with enormous chase orders. potential which could be hugely beneficial to Ireland in the food and drinks sectors. I am confi- Official Engagements. dent that the mission has laid solid grounds for 93. Mr. Cassidy asked the Minister for Agri- maximising this potential and has established a culture and Food if she will report on her recent basis for further contacts at official and industry trade mission to China. [6866/05] level which should lead in the future to increased trade between Ireland and China. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): I led a delegation of food and drink industry representatives to China as part of a Bovine Diseases. wider trade mission led by the Taoiseach, Deputy 94. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Agri- Bertie Ahern, from 17 to 22 January 2005. I culture and Food the number of cases of BSE in accompanied the Taoiseach at formal state func- cattle discovered in 2004 and to date in 2005; the tions, including a meeting with the Chinese Prem- way in which this compares with recent years; the ier, Mr Wen Jiabao and President Hu Jintao. I number of such cases which were discovered in also held talks with the Chinese Vice Minister of animals born after the imposition of the ban on Agriculture and with the Minister for the Admin- meat and bonemeal; if she has information istration of Quality, Supervision, Inspection and regarding the reason so many cases in such ani- Quarantine, AQSIQ, who is responsible for mals are still being discovered; and if she will imports into China. make a statement on the matter. [6961/05] In the course of my visit I signed a pigmeat protocol with AQSIQ Minister Li Changjiang Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary that will form the basis on which pigmeat prod- Coughlan): In 2004, 126 cases of BSE were con- ucts from Ireland will be exported to China. The firmed compared with 182 in 2003 and 333 in protocol was signed in the presence of the 2002. There have been ten cases to date in 2005 Taoiseach and Premier Wen Jiabao of the which represents a decrease of 73% on the People’s Republic of China in the Great Hall of number of cases, some 37, discovered in the same the People following official talks held between period in 2004. The vast majority of these cases Ireland and China. This formal agreement has were in animals born prior to the introduction been concluded after intensive negotiations and here of the additional controls in 1996 and 1997. will provide a framework within which actual The shift in age profile in BSE cases as well as a trade in pigmeat products could commence later reduction in case numbers indicates that the in the year. additional controls have been effective in signifi- I raised the question of the lifting of the cantly reducing the exposure of animals born Chinese ban on beef products in my official dis- after 1997 to the infectious agent. It is expected cussions with both the Minister for Agriculture that the incidence of disease will continue to and the Minister for AQSIQ. During these dis- decline as cows born prior to 1998 leave the cussions I emphasised that the control and super- system. vision of food safety is afforded the very highest Investigations are carried out into the feeding status in Ireland and that the Government is com- regimes of all herds in which BSE is identified mitted to protecting the high quality of food pro- and, in particular, in herds in which cases born 1507 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1508

[Mary Coughlan.] Sugar Beet Industry. after the feed controls were reinforced are 97. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Agri- confirmed. culture and Food the position regarding the Within the context of the overall picture, the ownership of the Irish sugar quota; when she was diagnosis of BSE in a small number of animals informed of the decision to close the Carlow born after 1997 was to be expected. To date, nine facility; and if she will make a statement on the animals born after 1997 — four in 1998 and five matter. [6791/05] in 1999 — have been diagnosed with BSE. In addition, ten cases were confirmed in 1997 born 106. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Agri- animals but some of these were born before all culture and Food the information available to her the reinforced measures were fully in place. My Department on the proposed closure of a plant Department had foreseen the likelihood that (details supplied) in County Carlow; and if she individual cases would from time to time arise will make a statement on the matter. [6953/05] which may relate to circumstances specific to the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary farms in question and which do not conform with Coughlan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 97 the general trend as the incidence of the disease and 106 together. in the national herd recedes. There is, however, Under the EU sugar regime, each member no basis for suspecting that these cases are indica- state has a quota for manufactured sugar. There tive of either a systemic failure in controls or of is no quota for sugar beet nor is there a quota at a reversal of or deviation from the overall posi- farm level. The EU regulations stipulate that the tive trend in relation to BSE in Ireland. quota must be made available to the sugar manufacturing enterprises in the member state. Transport of Livestock. Accordingly, in Ireland the entire sugar quota is 95. Mr. Boyle asked the Minister for Agri- processed by Irish Sugar Limited, which is the culture and Food the action she can take and the only sugar manufacturer in this country. Irish advice she can give to a person (details supplied) Sugar Limited places annual contracts with farm- who is being refused ferry transportation for a car ers to grow a specified tonnage of sugar beet suf- and trailer to import a top sire from Britain and ficient to manufacture the sugar quota. a female from another top herd and if the licence The question of ownership of the sugar quota given to the ferry company covers all animals or has never been an issue in the past because the horses only. [6976/05] EU regulations do not provide for the buying and selling of quota. However, the status of the quota Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary has become the subject of debate since the Com- Coughlan): There is no legal obligation on ferry mission raised the possibility of cross-border operators to carry livestock. The question of quota mobility in the context of the proposed whether a ferry company carries livestock is a reform of the EU sugar regime. Several member matter for the ferry company concerned. states, including Ireland, are strongly opposed to However, I should point out that any ferry oper- the idea of quota mobility but if it is maintained ator intending to transport livestock from this in the Commission’s legislative proposals, due to State to another member state, or to a third coun- be published around June, then the Commission try must have the vessel inspected and approved will propose appropriate rules to deal with the by my Department. new situation. I have sought the advice of the The question of whether a ferry company from Attorney General in that context but my objec- another member state is approved to transport tive will be to ensure that the status quo is main- animals into this country is a matter for the com- tained and that cross-border mobility of quota is petent authority in the member state of origin to not allowed. address. The decision by Greencore to close its plant in Carlow and to consolidate all of its sugar manu- EU Directives. facturing in Mallow was a commercial decision 96. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Agri- taken by the board on 12 January 2005. The culture and Food if it is intended to provide decision was taken by the company in the light of additional aid for farmers who may face signifi- the increasing competition in the sugar market cant extra waste management costs arising from and taking account of the reality that changes will the EU nitrates directive; and if she will make a occur in the industry as a consequence of the statement on the matter. [6966/05] reform of the EU sugar regime and of WTO Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary developments. The company advised my Depart- Coughlan): Consultations are currently ongoing ment two days in advance of the board meeting with the European Commission in regard to the that a proposal concerning the future of its two action programme for implementation of the processing plants and involving the likely closure nitrates directive in Ireland. The question of poss- of the Carlow plant would be put to the board ible additional grant-aid being provided to farm- for decision. ers under the farm waste management scheme Export Regulations. will be decided in the light of the requirements of the action programme, when agreed. 98. Ms Enright asked the Minister for Agri- 1509 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1510 culture and Food her position regarding the abol- stands at just under 0.7%. The following table ition of export credit refunds by the EU; and if lists the percentage land areas under organic pro- she will make a statement on the matter. duction in each of the other EU member states [6803/05] as at 31 December 2003.

Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary EU Country Organic Area % of land Coughlan): The framework agreement for the (kha) area next WTO round which was concluded in Geneva in August 2004 commits member countries to Austria 328.8 12.90 agree detailed rules, including an end date, for Belgium 24.2 1.73 the parallel elimination of all forms of export sub- Cyprus 0.166 0.12 sides and for the introduction of disciplines on Czech Republic 255.0 5.97 all export measures with equivalent effect. This Denmark 165.1 6.14 agreement covers export refunds, export credits, the trade-distorting practices of state trading Estonia 40.9 4.59 enterprises and food aid not in conformity with Finland 160.0 7.22 disciplines to be introduced. This approach France 550.0 1.86 should ensure equal competition on the world Germany 734.0 4.3 market for all exporters. The full details of the Greece 244.5 6.24 implementation of the framework agreement are Hungary 113.8 1.94 the subject of ongoing negotiations in Geneva, Italy 1,052.0 6.86 leading to a WTO ministerial conference in Hong Latvia 24.5 0.99 Kong in December 2005. Lithuania 23.3 0.67 Luxembourg 3.0 2.00 Farm Retirement Scheme. Malta 0.014 — 99. Mr. Noonan asked the Minister for Agri- Netherlands 41.9 2.17 culture and Food the action she intends to take Poland 49.9 0.30 to address the situation whereby ERS farmers are Portugal 120.7 3.17 finding it difficult to lease land; and if she will Slovakia 54.5 2.43 make a statement on the matter. [6775/05] Slovenia 21.0 4.15 Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Spain 725.2 2.84 Coughlan): Participants in the scheme of early Sweden 225.8 6.83 retirement from farming introduced in 1994 United Kingdom 695.6 4.42 under Council Regulation (EEC) No. 2079/92 were required to have their holdings farmed for the duration of the pension by younger farmers Farm Retirement Scheme. who met the eligibility conditions of the scheme. In cases where the retiring farmers transferred 101. Mr. Hayes asked the Minister for Agri- their holdings by lease, such leases were normally culture and Food if she will index-link the early for five years. If the pension had some period to retirement pension; and if she will make a state- run when a lease expired, the retired farmer was ment on the matter. [6777/05] obliged either to renew the lease or to find Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary another eligible transferee. Coughlan): The rate of pension payable under I recognise that following the introduction of the 1994 scheme of early retirement from farming the single payment scheme, and the provisions is the maximum amount provided for by the EU allowing farmers to consolidate their entitlements Council regulation under which the scheme was in certain circumstances, some retired farmers introduced. The regulation does not provide for may face difficulties in getting their transferees to indexation of payments. renew leases or in finding replacement trans- My Department’s proposals for the current ferees. My officials are in contact with the Euro- early retirement scheme, which commenced on 27 pean Commission in an effort to secure arrange- November 2000 and is one of the measures in the ments that will safeguard the pensions of the CAP rural development plan for the period 2000- retired farmers in such cases. 06, included provision for annual increases in pension over the period of the plan. The Euro- Organic Farming. pean Commission rejected this proposal and 100. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Agri- insisted on legal grounds that a fixed rate be set culture and Food the percentage of land in instead. organic production here compared with all other EU member states; and if she will make a state- Animal Diseases. ment on the matter. [6981/05] 102. Ms McManus asked the Minister for Agri- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary culture and Food her views on the implications Coughlan): The percentage of agricultural land for this country of the recent discovery of BSE in under organic production in Ireland currently a goat in France and the confirmation that the condition has now jumped a species; the esti- 1511 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1512

[Ms McManus.] been tested here for TSEs recently and all were mated number of goats here; the steps that are negative. My Department is currently compiling being taken to ensure that BSE does not spread a register of goat herds and will in the months to the Irish goat herd; and if she will make a state- ahead be introducing a full identification system. ment on the matter. [6962/05] Punchestown Racecourse. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): Until recently BSE had never been 103. Mr. Gormley asked the Minister for Agri- found under natural circumstances in ruminants culture and Food if she will respond to claims that other than cattle. Its presence in goats or other certain leases involving the Punchestown race- ruminants had been viewed as theoretically poss- course lands are invalid and need to be replaced, ible but had not previously been detected. Aris- and that as a result Departments and State agen- ing from an EU testing programme, a healthy cies had no security when they gave over \28 mill- goat slaughtered in 2002 in France was tested at ion to the racecourse. [6982/05] random for evidence of transmissible spongiform Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary encephalopathy, TSE. Based on the initial posi- Coughlan): The Punchestown lands are owned by tive finding of a TSE which differed from the nor- the Kildare Hunt Club. A new organisational mal scrapie strain, further scientific studies were structure has been agreed under which a joint carried out, leading to the conclusion by French venture company made up of the Kildare Hunt experts that the brain could be BSE positive. Club and Horse Racing Ireland, HRI, has been The EU Commission submitted the data incorporated. It is the intention that ownership of received from the French authorities to the Com- the Punchestown companies will transfer to the munity Reference Laboratory for TSEs in new company as soon as the question of the exist- Weybridge, England for evaluation by an expert ence of any taxation liabilities of the Kildare panel. The panel completed its evaluation and on Hunt Club to the Revenue Commissioners has 28 January this year the Commission confirmed been finalised. Conflicting legal advice has been the presence of BSE in the animal in question. received by the Kildare Hunt Club and HRI on The European Food Safety Authority, EFSA, the taxation liabilities. The Kildare Hunt Club has advised that based on current scientific know- advice was to the effect that the leases on which ledge, milk and products derived from milk are the potential tax liability might arise were in fact unlikely to present any risk of TSE contami- invalid. Based on this advice the hunt club has nation, if the milk comes from healthy animals. made a submission to the Revenue Commis- Exclusion of animals with mastitis is considered sioners and the restructuring and the transfer of to reduce the risk. As regards meat, specified risk assets to the joint venture company cannot be materials are required to be removed from goats finalised until the outcome of this submission is slaughtered at abattoirs. known. In the light of the foregoing, and on the basis HRI, which provided funding to the Punches- of advice from EFSA, no changes have been pro- town racecourse and the Department of Agri- posed by the Commission in relation to the con- culture and Food which provided the funding for sumption of milk, cheese or meat from goats. the event centre at Punchestown have received However, EFSA will give further consideration written assurances from the chairman of the to the meat aspect. Kildare Hunt Club that no changes will be Since BSE was discovered in cattle, an exten- attempted to be made to the existing lease sive monitoring and surveillance regime for scra- arrangement without the interests of HRI and the pie and BSE has been in place also for sheep and Department of Agriculture and Food being fully goats throughout the EU. Given this surveillance, protected. The chairman has been informed by the finding of isolated cases would not indicate a my Department that it will hold him to this widespread problem. The goat population in the undertaking. EU is small — 12.7 million compared to 89.2 million sheep in 2003. Widespread testing of sheep Departmental Investigations. has been undertaken and all results to date have been negative for BSE. 104. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for Agri- Following the confirmation of BSE in the goat culture and Food if she will make a statement on on the 28 January, the Commission has moved the agreement between her Department and a quickly to expand the testing of goats. The EU company (details supplied). [6799/05] Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Ani- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary mal Health agreed on 3 February that over the Coughlan): The case mentioned by the Deputy next six months 176,000 tests will be conducted arose from a dispute between a company, my on healthy animals across the EU and 25,000 on Department and two co-defendants. This related goats that had died on the farm. This intensified to the storage of tallow at its premises going back regime will set the highest quotas for countries to 1997. which have large goat populations and where A settlement was reached with the plaintiff on BSE has been detected in cattle. 6 December 2004. The settlement was agreed on The goat population in Ireland is estimated at the basis of legal advice from State Counsel and 17,000. A number of samples from goats have with the sanction of the Office of the Attorney 1513 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1514

General. It was without admission of liability by Question No. 106 answered with Question the defendants. It was also agreed between the No. 97. parties that the terms of the settlement would remain confidential except as required by law. Sugar Beet Industry. 107. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Agri- Food Labelling. culture and Food the discussions she has had with 105. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- the Department of Enterprise, Trade and culture and Food if she is satisfied that all meat Employment arising from the proposed closure of and meat products sold here are labelled accu- the Carlow sugar factory; and if she will make a rately to reflect their country of origin; and if she statement on the matter. [6972/05] will make a statement on the matter. [6930/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): The decision by Greencore Group Coughlan): The general labelling regulations plc-Irish Sugar Limited to close its sugar plant in covering all food sold in Ireland require that the Carlow and to consolidate all of its sugar manu- information be given clearly, accurately and in a facturing in Mallow was a commercial decision language understood by the consumer. taken by the company in the light of the increas- European Directive 2000/13/EC on the label- ing competition in the sugar sector. ling of foodstuffs requires pre-packaged food- I am of course concerned about the loss of jobs stuffs to carry information on the source or place associated with the closure of the Carlow plant of origin only where its absence might mislead and the personal impact these job losses will have the consumer to a material degree on the origin on families. I have been in contact with my col- of foodstuffs or their raw materials. league, Deputy Michea´l Martin, Minister for The Community labelling requirements apply Enterprise, Trade and Employment and I am to all meat products and are compulsory in all aware that Enterprise Ireland is actively looking member states. In addition, there are further at replacement jobs for the area. labelling requirements that apply to beef sold at retail level regardless of whether that beef was Farm Retirement Scheme. produced within the community or in a third 108. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Agri- country. Where beef is imported into the com- culture and Food the position regarding the munity from a third country that beef must, at a review of the early farm retirement scheme; and minimum, be labelled as “Origin: non-EC” along if she will make a statement on the matter. with an indication of the third country in which [7049/05] slaughter took place. This detailed labelling system for beef sold at retail level, goes beyond Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary the general labelling legislation provisions. Coughlan): My Department is currently complet- While these EU regulations do not apply at res- ing a review of the scheme of early retirement taurant and catering sector level, it is my inten- from farming under the expenditure review pro- tion to proceed with a national legal requirement cess established by the Department of Finance in that country of origin must be displayed in 1997 in the context of the strategic management respect of beef sold in such premises and outlets, initiative. The review, when completed, will be and I have raised this with the Commission. I am laid before the House. The purpose of the review currently in consultation with my colleague the is to analyse systematically whether the scheme is Ta´naiste and Minister for Health and Children meeting its objectives and inform future decisions with regard to framing a suitable legal text within regarding priorities on expenditure programmes. which to implement these requirements and proposals to this effect will be brought forward once Food Industry. the legal options allowing for this development 109. Dr. Devins asked the Minister for Agri- have been fully examined. In this regard also I culture and Food if she will report on progress am examining the scope for extending origin being made under the food institutional research labelling to other meat products. programme. [6871/05] On a general level, I believe consumers should be given maximum information on the origin of Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary the food they are purchasing. I have this week Coughlan): The food institutional research along with other member states urged the Com- measure, FIRM, forms part the productive sector mission to examine EU labelling provisions to operational programme of the National Develop- facilitate this, and in doing so, indicated the part- ment Plan 2000-2006. The main objectives of icular need for attention to be paid to the origin FIRM are to provide a base of information and of poultry imports to the EU. In this context, expertise in generic technologies that supports regulations requiring poultry meat originating in innovation and product development in the food a county outside the EU to bear an indication of industry, and assists in assuring consumer protec- the country of origin when offered for sale in a tion by ensuring that product development is retail premises were introduced in Ireland last underpinned by attention to food safety and qual- year. ity issues. 1515 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1516

[Mary Coughlan.] The table provided shows awards and expendi- Progress under the measure has been very ture under the various research themes to date. satisfactory with 110 projects awarded funding following general calls in 2000 and 2004 and a targeted call in 2001.

Theme No. of projects Total Awards (\m) 2000-2004 Expenditure (\m) 2000-2004

Consumer Foods 17 7.745 4.802 Dairy 15 8.152 4.046 DNA Technology 5 2.167 1.267 Food Ingredients 7 3.207 2.854 Food Safety 17 8.057 6.604 Food Viruses 2 0.947 0.776 Food Waste 3 0.607 0.213 Meat 16 6.919 2.996 Miscellaneous 17 6.457 3.672 Nutrition 4 2.539 2.387 Process Design 3 1.380 1.267 Residues 2 0.630 0.430 TSE 2 1.198 0.772

Total 110 50.005 32.086

A further 11 projects with indicative funding of Minister for the Environment, Heritage and \5.6 million have received preliminary approval Local Government. Ireland submitted an action and notification of awards in respect of these are programme for further implementation of the currently being finalised. directive to the European Commission on 22 The FIRM programme has encouraged high- October 2004. The Commission conveyed its quality research outputs and outcomes across a view, by way of a Letter of Formal Notice under range of food science disciplines. In so doing, the Article 228 of the EU Treaty issued to Ireland measure has supported the building of a substan- dated 22 December 2004, that the action prog- tial base of highly qualified researchers at doctor- ramme is not complete and does not comply with ate and post-doctorate level, whose proven the requirements of the directive and the research capacity is attractive to the agri-food judgment of the European Court of Justice industry. against Ireland delivered on 11 March 2004. The opportunities offered by such public good My Department is working with the Depart- food research programmes have contributed to ment of the Environment, Heritage and Local the formation of recognised centres of excellence Government on the preparation of a response to in food research in Ireland and this in turn has the Commission. Senior officials from my Depart- been instrumental in researchers gaining access to ment and their counterparts in the Department EU and national funded research programmes. A of the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- number of research teams have been created at ment are in contact with the relevant Commission the various institutions — universities and officials and this process of consultation and Teagasc food centres — as a result of funding negotiation is continuing. Agreement with the from FIRM, and the capability and critical mass Commission is necessary not only to avoid the that has been developed, together with the associ- risk of substantial fines on Ireland but also to ated knowledge base, represents a major resource safeguard ongoing EU funding of rural develop- for industry. ment measures. In addition, the public good food research It remains my objective, and it is also the objec- programmes have been instrumental in the tive of the Minister for the Environment, Heri- development of a number of food products which tage and Local Government, to reach agreement contribute to the health and nutritional intake of on an action programme that meets the objectives the consumer. of the nitrates directive in terms of safeguarding water quality while also minimising the burden EU Directives. of compliance that the agreement will place on 110. Mr. Gogarty asked the Minister for Agri- farmers and safeguarding the future of the com- culture and Food the progress with regard to mercial farming sector. implementing the Nitrates Directive 1991. [6980/05] Sugar Beet Industry. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary 111. Mr. Rabbitte asked the Minister for Agri- Coughlan): The implementation of the Nitrates culture and Food if she will meet a group (details Directive is a matter in the first instance for the supplied) to discuss the proposed closure of the 1517 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1518 sugar factory in Carlow; and if she will make a culture and Food the level of participation to date statement on the matter. [6971/05] in REP scheme 3; if she is satisfied with this level of participation; her plans for the future of the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary REP scheme; and if she will make a statement on Coughlan): I received a request for a meeting the matter. [6970/05] from the group in question and I have arranged to meet them. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): Up to last Friday, 25 February, over Grant Payments. 17,000 applications have been received for REPS 3 since its introduction in June 2004. With some 112. Mr. Coveney asked the Minister for Agri- 27,000 farmers in REPS 2 this brings the overall culture and Food her position on the proposed participation level in REPS to approximately cut by the EU on grant aid for forestry; and if she 44,000. will make a statement on the matter. [6792/05] The level of applications received under REPS 128. Mr. Deenihan asked the Minister for Agri- 3 compares very favourably with any similar time culture and Food the position regarding the pro- period since REPS began in 1994 and is very posed changes to the forest premium scheme and encouraging. I expect participation levels to sur- grants available for planting; and if she will make pass the previous peak of 45,500 by the middle of a statement on the matter. [7050/05] this year. My Department’s Vote for 2005 includes \271 million for REPS which represents Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary an increase of 30% on the 2004 outturn and will, Coughlan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 112 I believe, be sufficient to accommodate demand. and 128 together. The current scheme is covered by EU Com- The issues raised by the Deputies relate to pro- mission Regulation on Rural Development posals for forestry contained in the draft rural 1257/1999, which runs to the end of 2006. The development regulation 2007-13, first published next programming period will run from 2007 to by the European Commission last summer, and 2013 and the regulations are already at an which is the subject of ongoing negotiations in advanced stage of drafting. It is already clear that Brussels. I must emphasise that these are merely they will provide for agri-environment. The pre- proposals at this stage and they are some way cise shape of the successor to REPS will be deter- from agreement in their present format. mined in the light of these regulations when they When the proposed new regulation was first are finalised, but there is every reason to expect published, Ireland was one of the first member that we can make another scheme available that states to recognise the threat that the draft regu- will be attractive to farmers while continuing to lation posed to countries with active afforest- deliver environmental benefits and public good as ation programmes. well. In negotiating the terms of this new scheme From the outset, the Irish position on the draft and the level of EU funding for it with the Com- regulation in relation to forestry has been clear mission, it will be important to be able to point and unequivocal. We have continually and con- to REPS 3 as a success. It is important, therefore, sistently made known our opposition to the Com- that all parties including the farming organis- mission’s proposals particularly those proposing ations work to encourage and facilitate the high- to reduce establishment grants, premiums and est possible take-up of the scheme for the remain- associated premium payment periods. der of the current period. This is the position we have articulated consistently at every level from working group up to the EU Directives. Agriculture Council. I expressed my views on the impact of the proposals for forestry in Ireland at 114. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Agri- the ministerial Agriculture Council meeting in culture and Food the discussions she has had with November 2004 and directly to Commissioner other Departments and State agencies with a Fischer Boel. I restated these views, at the Agri- view to meeting the EU Biofuels Directive culture Council meeting this week. requiring Ireland to replace 2% of petrol and We will continue to work at all levels to diesel with renewable fuels by the end of 2005. achieve the best possible deal for Ireland in the [6973/05] admittedly tough negotiations that lie ahead. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Early on in the process I established a consulta- Coughlan): My colleague the Minister for tive-liaison group, comprising representatives of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources the forestry sector, which meets regularly. is responsible in the first instance for the pro- Through this group, the sector is consulted and motion and development of renewable energy, informed of developments. including biofuels, and is committed to the Final decisions on the proposed regulations are development and promotion of a biofuels market not expected to be taken by the Council of Mini- in Ireland’s transport fuel sector. sters for some months. An interdepartmental group, chaired by the Department of Communications, Marine and Rural Environmental Protection Scheme. Natural Resources and comprising officials from 113. Mr. Penrose asked the Minister for Agri- my own Department, the Departments of Fin- 1519 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1520

[Mary Coughlan.] Alternative Farm Enterprises. ance and Transport, the Department of the 117. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for Environment, Heritage and Local Government Agriculture and Food further to the Bacon and Sustainable Energy Ireland, SEI, has been set review of the forestry sector, her proposals to up to consider policy options for the development develop the sector, particularly in reaching the of a biofuels sector in Ireland. planting target set out in the programme for 115. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- Government 2002; and if she will make a state- culture and Food the extent to which she has ment on the matter. [6784/05] measured the potential impact of the nitrates Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary directive and its likely effect on production; and Coughlan): The review and appraisal of Ireland’s if she will make a statement on the matter. forestry development strategy undertaken by [6931/05] Peter Bacon and Associates is a key element of a review of the sector. The proposals in the review Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary are being considered in conjunction with the draft Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates EU regulation on rural development policy, directive is a matter in the first instance for the which proposes reductions in EU financial sup- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and port for forestry. The Bacon report reaffirmed Local Government. the need for an approved planting target of My Department in association with Teagasc 20,000 hectares per annum but commented that a has for some time been evaluating the possible lesser planting target could be a viable basis for effect on farming of the further implementation support, providing the planting is undertaken in of the directive. These studies have indicated that a manner that maximises the non-timber benefits. the great majority of farmers are already Given that EU funding of forestry currently operating below the general limit of 170 kg of accounts for up to 60% of public investment in organic nitrogen per hectare specified in the the sector, proposals for the further development directive and so their stocking levels would not of the sector must await the final terms of the be affected. A proportion of farmers, mainly in rural development regulation and consideration the dairy sector, operate above that level. A proof the likely impact on Irish forestry. posal has been made to the European Com- For 2005, I have made sufficient funds available mission for arrangements that would allow farm- to support an increased planting programme of ers to continue to operate at organic nitrogen some 15,000 hectares, which compares with the levels of up to 250 kg per hectare level under 11,000 hectares planted in 2004. appropriate conditions. The Commission has The current availability of grant-aid at 100% indicated that it will consider this proposal when for planting and the annual premiums, and partic- the nitrates action programme itself is agreed. ularly the concession obtained in relation to the Teagasc, at my Department’s request, is cur- stacking entitlements vis-a`-vis the single payment rently finalising a farm facilities survey to estab- scheme, make forestry a very attractive land-use lish baseline data on farm facilities and manage- option for farmers. ment practices relating to manure, dirty water and fodder systems. This survey will allow a more Animal Welfare Bodies. precise assessment of the amount of additional manure storage capacity that will be needed to 118. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Agri- meet the requirements of the action programme. culture and Food if she will report on the assistance available to animal welfare centres through- World Trade Organisation. out the country. [6868/05] 116. Mr. G. Mitchell asked the Minister for Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Agriculture and Food the discussions she has had Coughlan): In recent years, my Department has with the EU Commission regarding the next made ex-gratia payments to a number of organis- round of the WTO; and if she will make a state- ations directly involved in the delivery of animal ment on the matter. [6802/05] care. Initially, these payments were made from residual funds in my Department’s Vote at the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary end of each year. However, specific provisions for Coughlan): I discussed the WTO agriculture this purpose have been included in my Depart- negotiations and Irish concerns in relation ment’s Estimates in recent years. thereto at a bilateral meeting with the Com- In 2004, \1 million was allocated to 83 organis- missioner for Agriculture and Rural Develop- ations throughout the country involved in the ment on 20 December 2004. The negotiations direct delivery of animal care and welfare services were also discussed at the Council of Agriculture to help towards their work during 2005. Ministers meeting I attended on 21 December Any animal welfare body that is involved in the 2004. The Council reviews developments in the direct delivery of welfare services or care and that negotiations on a regular basis and will be dis- wishes to be considered for funding for activities cussing the situation again at its meeting on 14 in 2006 should submit a request in writing to my March, which I plan to attend. Department. 1521 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1522

Alternative Farm Enterprises. that consumers have a right to information on the origin of the meat they cook in their homes or 119. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Agri- eat out. While the group could not agree on how culture and Food if she has proposals to kickstart and sustain the development of alternative origin should be defined, there was unanimous enterprises on the farm; and if she will make a agreement that further research was necessary to statement on the matter. [5811/05] establish consumers’ wishes in this area. The consumer liaison panel has carried out this research, Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary the results of which were presented in Coughlan): Grant-aid is available from my December 2003. Department for the on-farm development of At the beginning of 2004, two regulations in alternative enterprises under the scheme of relation to the labelling of poultry meat were investment aid in alternative enterprises, housing introduced. The first of these regulations requires and handling facilities. By virtue of the terms of poultrymeat, loose and pre-packaged, originating that scheme, eligible farmers are entitled to grant- in a country outside the EU to bear an indication aid at rates of either 40% or 20%, depending on of the country of origin when offered for sale in a the level of income of the farmer concerned, in retail premises. The second requires information respect of investments carried out in relation to regarding class, price per unit weight, condition horses, deer, goats, rabbits or other acceptable and slaughterhouse details in respect of loose, non-quota species. The maximum amounts of non-prepackaged, poultrymeat to be provided to \ investment eligible for grant-aid are 31,743 in the consumer. \ the case of horses and deer and 6,349 in the case EU regulations provide for a detailed labelling of other species. system for beef to be applied at retail sale, which is over and above the general labelling provisions. Food Labelling. These regulations do not apply at restaurant and 120. Mr. Neville asked the Minister for Agri- catering sector level. It is my intention to proceed culture and Food the action she intends to take with a legal requirement that country of origin to improve the standard of food labelling; and if must be displayed in respect of beef served on she will make a statement on the matter. such premises. The legal options allowing for this [6797/05] development are being examined at present. On the food labelling issue in general, I must Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary emphasise that my primary aim is to protect con- Coughlan): There have been a number of positive sumer interest and to ensure that the consumer is developments in the area of food labelling, most properly informed. Ireland is a major exporter of of which emanated from the report of the food labelling group which was established in June food and food products and indeed there are also 2002. The group reported in December of that considerable imports, so it is imperative that the year with a series of recommendations. The same standards are applied to the labelling of recommendations were accepted. As food label- foods in every sector and that there is a level ling is a particularly complicated and broad based playing field for the food industry at all levels. I area, involving a number of Departments and hope to achieve this through the implementation agencies, an interdepartmental and agency group in as full a manner as possible of the recommend- was established to progress the implementation ations of the food labelling group. of the report. There have been significant developments on Good progress has been made to date in food labelling and I am satisfied that there are relation to the implementation of the recom- other issues of concern are being actively mendations in the labelling report. There were a addressed. Today’s consumers should be in a total of 21 recommendations, many of which are position to make food consumption choices which beyond the remit of my Department and some of best suit their circumstances and preferences, and which were to be activated only after others had an appropriate labelling system is a key element been completed. in bringing this about. The two main issues that emanated from the recommendations of the labelling group were Live Exports. centralising enforcement in one agency and the 121. Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Agri- definition of origin. culture and Food the situation regarding the live Enforcement of all of the food labelling regu- shipping of animals from Ireland. [6873/05] lations has now been centralised in the Food Safety Authority of Ireland, FSAI. This will not Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary only streamline the enforcement measures but Coughlan): I am pleased to be able to tell the will also provide a one-stop shop for any com- Deputy that the live cattle export trade recently plaints on mislabelling of food. The centralisation resumed on the ferry service between Rosslare of food labelling policy, with the exception of fish, and Cherbourg. This is a timely development for in both the Department of Health and Children the livestock exporters and farmers generally and and my Department achieves another recom- ends recent uncertainty over the future of the live mendation of the food labelling group. There was cattle export trade. In addition to this roll on-roll full agreement within the food labelling group off service, there are 16 dedicated walk on-walk 1523 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1524

[Mary Coughlan.] My Department enforces these regulations off vessels approved to carry cattle from the which provide for controls on imports, exports State. and movement of plants and plant products in the country. If plants or plant products are found not Animal Diseases. to comply with the regulations then appropriate measures are taken including appropriate treat- 122. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Agri- ment or destruction. These measures prevent the culture and Food if she will report on the quaran- introduction or spread of plant diseases and pests tine and other measures to prevent the introduc- and ensure the high plant health status of the tion of animal and plant diseases into Ireland. country. [6978/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Afforestation Programme. Coughlan): With regard to EU trade under the 123. Mr. Cassidy asked the Minister for Agri- single market trade in animals and animal prod- culture and Food the progress on tree plantings; ucts is permitted on the basis that harmonised the value of the forestry sector; and the number controls apply. These controls are set down in of jobs involved. [6867/05] Council Directives 90/425/EEC, 89/662/EEC and 91/628/EC. Animal products being imported into Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Ireland must come from an EU-approved prem- Coughlan): New planting over the last number of ises and bear an EU health mark. A health certifi- years has averaged out at approximately 14,000 cate must accompany all animals imported. The hectares per annum. The outturn for 2004 is esti- contents of the health certificate were harmon- mated to be in the region of 11,000 hectares. This ised under Commission Regulation 599/2004 and year, I am making sufficient funding available to contain details of the requirements the animal increase the level of planting to 15,000 hectares. must fulfil prior to travel and the inspections car- Achieving this target is of course dependent on ried out to ensure that these requirements are ful- demand materialising from land-owners, princi- filled. These conditions are set down to protect pally farmers. However, given the unprecedented animal health and public health. My Department concessions on stacking which were won by also requires that advance notification of any Ireland in the CAP negotiations, I am hopeful import be given. that many farmers will see that forestry has a With regard to imports from outside the EU, valuable role to play in their future. strict conditions are also in force to prevent the The most recent estimate of the total turnover introduction of disease. These include a require- of the forestry sector, as published in A Review ment that the exporting country has been and Appraisal of Ireland’s Forestry Development approved by the EU as having veterinary controls Strategy by economic consultants, Peter Bacon & \ at least equivalent to those in place in the EU. Associates, is 763 million in 2002. In terms of The animal or animal product must originate direct payments to those who have planted and from an area where there are no restrictions maintain plantations, the expenditure in 2004 was \ imposed under EU safeguard measures, must some 100 million. come from establishments which are under the The same report has estimated that there is supervision and control of the competent auth- total employment of 16,175 people in the Irish orities and must be correctly identified and be economy that are directly engaged in growing and accompanied by the specific health certificate using forest products or are engaged in related conforming to the models laid down in EU legis- sectors. lation. Imports into the EU must be presented for veterinary inspection at an EU approved border Sugar Beet Industry. inspection post following the submission of 124. Mr. Wall asked the Minister for Agri- advance notification. culture and Food the circumstances in which she Compulsory six-month quarantine applies to all can or is prepared to use the golden share she pet dogs and cats brought into Ireland from any holds in the Irish Sugar Company; and if she will country not deemed low risk for rabies under the make a statement on the matter. [6955/05] harmonized EU system on the movement of pets. Pet dogs and cats from low-risk countries may be 136. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Agri- brought directly into Ireland provided that con- culture and Food if her approval has been sought ditions on identification, vaccination and blood from a company (details supplied) for the proposed sale of the site of the Carlow plant which testing are met. is to close on 11 March 2005; if she intends to give In relation to plant health, Council Directive her approval; and if she will make a statement on 2000/29/EC sets out the restrictions and protec- the matter. [6957/05] tive measures which aim to protect plant health within the European Community. This directive Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary is transposed into Irish law under SI 894 of 2004, Coughlan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 124 European Communities (Control of Organisms and 136 together. harmful to Plants and Plant Products) Regu- As Minister I hold a special share in Greencore lations 2004. plc. That share has the same monetary value as 1525 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1526 any other share in the company but has con- developed in consultation with the key stake- ditions attached which prevent the company from holders in the sector many of whom are rep- engaging in a number of activities without the resented on the authority. Recently it has under- prior written consent of the Minister. In sum- taken more strategic planning initiatives, the mary, the special share prevents the disposal of Teagasc 2000 review and the three-year strategy the controlling interest in Irish Sugar Limited, or required under the strategic management initiat- a certain percentage of the sugar assets and ive. A new review of its training and education prevents a single shareholder or group of share- programmes has recently got under way. holders from gaining control of Greencore plc. I am satisfied that Teagasc is well placed to I have not received any request from the com- face the future and to continue to provide the pany for consent to the sale of the Carlow site. innovation and technology transfer for the sustainable development of agriculture, the food Farm Advisory Service. industry and rural communities in the years 125. Mr. English asked the Minister for Agri- ahead. culture and Food her plans to develop the 126. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for Teagasc service provided to farmers; and if she Agriculture and Food her plans to provide will make a statement on the matter. [6789/05] greater support for small farmers; and if she will Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary make a statement on the matter. [6801/05] Coughlan): Teagasc the agriculture and food development authority, was established under the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Agriculture (Research, Training and Advice) Act Coughlan): I am keenly aware of the need to 1988. Its function under the Act is to provide make available appropriate supports for small research, training and advisory services for the farmers. In this regard, as the Deputy is no doubt agri-food sector. Teagasc is governed by an 11- aware, small farmers benefit from all of the sup- member authority. The chairman and five ordi- ports, within the legal framework of the Euro- nary members are appointed by the Minister and pean Union, administered by my Department. the remaining five members are appointed by the One of the areas where this is possible is the Minister following nominations from designated rural environment protection scheme, REPS. The organizations: IFA, ICMSA, ICOS, Macra na latest version of the scheme was introduced in Feirme and Teagasc unions. June 2004. In addition to an average increase of Teagasc has 1,360 permanent staff, comprising 28% in payment rates, payment of \200 per hec- advisers, teachers and research scientists with tare is also provided for the first 20 hectares, and appropriate supporting services. These are com- \175 per hectare for the next 20 hectares, and for plemented by 250 contract staff, as well as teach- further payment digression thereafter. ing staff in the private agricultural and horticul- Under the CAP rural development plan 2000- tural colleges. Teagasc staff carry out their 2006 compensatory allowances payable in the functions from more than 90 locations. disadvantaged areas moved from a payment per Teagasc’s operating budget for 2005 amounts animal to a payment based on area. Under the to over \155 million. Advisory services make up new area based scheme, farmers in the the biggest budget item — 35% of expenditure, disadvantaged areas with a minimum stocking followed by production research, 32%, training density of 0.15 livestock units per hectare can programmes, 19%, and food research, 13%. My qualify for payment on up to 45 hectares of land. Department’s provision to Teagasc for capital At present, approximately 99,800 farmers qualify and non-capital purposes in 2005 amounts to \123 for payments totalling \231 million annually. This million. The amount for non-capital purposes is represents an average payment of \2,315 com- \118.5 million and for capital development pur- pared with an average payment of \1,523 under poses the allocation is \4.5 million. By any stan- the old headage schemes. The smaller farmer has dards these are substantial resources and are a clearly benefited under the new scheme which clear indication of the Government’s continuing will continue in its present format for 2005 and commitment to supporting Teagasc activities. 2006. It is the responsibility of the Teagasc authority Details of new criteria for designation of to prioritise activities and allocate its funding disadvantaged areas from 2007 onward have accordingly. This it has done over the years in recently been received from the European Com- accordance with the needs of clients, EU and mission and are being examined in detail by my Government policy and industry needs. I am Department. I have signalled to the Commission satisfied that in doing so it has provided a first the sensitivity of this issue to Ireland in order to class service to Irish farmers. ensure that the new criteria do not reduce in any In the short term Teagasc will have to recon- way the benefits of the compensatory allowance figure its programmes in response to the funda- scheme. mental changes in agriculture arising out of the Under the milk quota restructuring prog- single payment. The authority is however already ramme, which I announced before Christmas, well accustomed to tailoring its programmes to small farmers again receive particular consider- meet the changing requirements of the agri-food ation in that producers with a quota of less than sector. Its annual programme of activities is 350,000 litres will be able to purchase twice the 1527 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1528

[Mary Coughlan.] payment advisory group comprising representa- amount available to larger producers in the same tives from the farming organisations, Teagasc and co-op area. Moreover, younger farmers with less officials from my Department has been set up to than 350,000 litres will have priority access to a advise on the national reserve. A 3% provisional further 25% of the pool. reduction for the national reserve is reflected in In the milk quota appeals tribunal hardship the certificates of provisional entitlements that scheme for 2004-2005, priority is being given to have already issued to farmers. applications from small-scale producers. In I have already decided that in the event of the addition, support is available to eligible farmers sum of individual payment entitlements for Irish under the farm assist scheme, administered by my farmers exceeding our financial ceiling, thus colleague, the Minister for Social and Family necessitating a linear percentage reduction for all Affairs. farmers, such linear percentage reduction would be accommodated within the 3% provisional Animal Diseases. reduction already applied for the national reserve. 127. Mr. McHugh asked the Minister for Agri- culture and Food the position regarding tubercu- The Council regulation also provides for a losis and brucellosis incidence in the country. reduction for modulation of 3% in 2005 rising by [6872/05] a further 1% in each of the years 2006 and 2007. The 3% deduction for modulation has also been Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary reflected in the provisional statements of entitle- Coughlan): Preliminary figures relating to the ments, which have already issued. However, a incidence of bovine TB in 2004 show a significant refund of this money will be made in respect of improvement on the position in 2003. The posi- the first \5,000 of the single payment in each case. tive trend of recent years continued and the cur- It is estimated that 46% of Irish farmers will, in rent estimate is that the number of reactors in effect, not be subject to modulation at all. 2004 will be under 23,000. This represents close on a 50% fall in reactor numbers from 1998 to Rural Environment Protection Scheme. 2004. 130. Mr. Glennon asked the Minister for Agri- The incidence of brucellosis also continued to culture and Food if she will report on prospects decline in 2004. The number of laboratory posi- for REP scheme 3 in 2005. [6874/05] tives has fallen from 6,417 in 1998 to 664 last year. This represents a 90% reduction in disease levels Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary in that period. During the same period, the total Coughlan): Up to last Friday, 25 February, over number of animals slaughtered under the eradi- 17,000 applications have been received for REPS cation programme fell from 29,778 to 6,195. 3 since its introduction in June 2004. With some The substantial improvement in the national 27,000 farmers in REPS 2 this brings the overall situation for both of these diseases is due to a participation level in REPS to approximately number of factors, including improved co-oper- 44,000. ation from all interested parties. I am confident The level of applications received under REPS that this progress can be maintained into the 3 compares very favourably with any similar time future with the continued operation of the exist- period since REPS began in 1994 and is very ing measures and the ongoing cooperation of encouraging. I expect participation levels to sur- farmers and all involved in the livestock industry. pass the previous peak of 45,500 by the middle of It will be necessary, however, in the medium term this year. My Department’s vote for 2005 includes to continue with the existing comprehensive con- \271 million for REPS which represents an trol and eradication measures, which have increase of 30% on the 2004 outturn and will, I brought about positive results in recent years in believe, be sufficient to accommodate demand. terms of reduced incidence of the disease. Farm Household Incomes. Question No. 128 answered with Question 131. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Agri- No. 112. culture and Food her views on the very small increase in farm incomes in 2004 as reported by Grant Payments. the CSO which is not keeping pace with inflation; 129. Dr. Twomey asked the Minister for Agri- her proposals to improve farm incomes; the pro- culture and Food if deductions from farmers’ sin- portion of farm incomes which is derived directly gle farm payment will not exceed 3% when linear from payments from her Department; and if she and other cuts are accounted for; and if she will will make a statement on the matter. [6967/05] make a statement on the matter. [6782/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): On 24 February 2005 the CSO pub- Coughlan): European Council Regulation lished the revised output, input and income state- 1782/2003 governing the single payment scheme ment for agriculture, which reports a 3% increase provides that each member state must set up a in aggregate farm income in 2004 compared with national reserve using between 1% and 3% of a 2.2% increase in inflation in the same year. The every individual farmer’s entitlements. A single 3% increase in incomes should be viewed posi- 1529 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1530 tively when account is taken of the fact that a BirdWatch Ireland and REPS farmers can qualify substantial amount of payments on 2004 premia for the additional payment by subscribing to Bir- entitlements will be paid in 2005 in conjunction dWatch Ireland management prescriptions for with the single farm payment. These include a them. 40% balancing payment due on livestock premia REPS is a highly successful agri-environment compared with 20% in the previous four years. measure and is acknowledged as such by the In 2004 over \1.6 billion was paid by my European Commission. One of the features of Department to the farming sector in direct pay- REPS which the Commission has commended is ments accounting for 74% of aggregate farm the fact that the whole farm is subjected to the income. full range of basic undertakings. This model has The value of the cattle, sheep and pigs sectors served Irish farmers well since the introduction of increased by 8.3%, 6.1% and 6.2% respectively. REPS in 1994 and it is not my intention to depart These improvements reflect continuing positive from the whole farm approach to accommodate trading conditions on EU markets for beef with a situation which I believe I have already consumption exceeding production, good addressed adequately. national and international demand for sheepmeat and strong pig prices. Farm Household Incomes. 133. Mr. M. Higgins asked the Minister for Grant Payments. Agriculture and Food the number of farmers who 132. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for have left full-time farming since 1997; her views Agriculture and Food the measure she intends to on the fall in the number of full-time farmers; the take to address the problems experienced by steps she is taking to deal with the drift from the farmers in the Shannon Callows, as a result of land; and if she will make a statement on the current proposals which do not allow them to matter. [6959/05] split their lands for grant aid purposes between Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary REP scheme funding and funding allocated under Coughlan): The most recent figures available the SAC and SPA designation; and if she will from the CSO show that there were 77,900 full- make a statement on the matter. [6783/05] time farmers in 2003, a drop of 20,400 since 1997. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Over the same period the number of part-time Coughlan): The designation of land under the EU farmers increased by 7,900 to 57,200. This birds and habitats directives is a function of the ongoing trend towards part-time farming reflects Department of the Environment, Heritage and a combination of factors including the increased Local Government. The question of compen- availability of off-farm employment and the need sation for farmers in the Shannon Callows area is for farmers to choose the most effective path to a matter, in the first instance, for that Depart- maximise competitiveness and the optimal level ment, and I understand that discussions on the of efficient production. In recent years the choice matter with the farming bodies have been going for farmers has tended to involve a combination on for some time and are not yet concluded. of part-time farming and the farmer or spouse I have already introduced arrangements holding an off-farm job. designed specifically to address the situation of This trend away from full-time farming towards farmers in the Shannon Callows. Farmers in this the part-time option is expected to continue area who wish to join REPS, but believe that the under the new system of decoupled farm pay- REPS payments do not fully offset any income ments. The recent report of the Agri Vision 2015 loss arising from the restrictions placed on their Committee stated that off-farm employment and farming activities because of designation under income are now standard parts of farm family the directives, may now also apply to the national work and income patterns. It went on to state that parks and wildlife service of the Department of there seems to be no doubt that present patterns the Environment, Heritage and Local Govern- and trends will continue and that farm household ment for additional compensation. Before this income reliance on off-farm employment will arrangement was introduced in September 2004, increase under the newly reformed CAP. they had to choose between REPS and the compensation arrangements operated by the national Sugar Beet Industry. parks and wildlife service but could not benefit 134. Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Agri- from both. This further concession was additional culture and Food the consequences she foresees to the inclusion of a new supplementary measure for the sugar industry and agriculture here arising in REPS when REPS 3 was introduced in June from the recent sugar factory closure in Carlow; 2004. Designated areas are already eligible for if she has had discussions with the farm organis- payments under REPS measure A of \242 per ations in this regard; and if she will make a state- hectare for the first 40 hectares and lesser ment on the matter. [6958/05] amounts for areas over 40 hectares, and the new supplementary measure provides for an Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary additional payment of \100 per hectare on part- Coughlan): The decision by Greencore Group icular sites in the Callows which are important plc-Irish Sugar Limited to close its sugar plant in corncrake habitats. Those sites are monitored by Carlow and to consolidate all of its sugar manu- 1531 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1532

[Mary Coughlan.] tinuation of an efficient sugar beet growing and facturing in Mallow was a commercial decision processing industry in this country. taken by the company in light of the increasing competition in the sugar market and taking Question No. 136 answered with Question account of the reality that changes will occur in No. 124. the industry as a consequence of the reform of 137. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- the EU sugar regime and of WTO developments. culture and Food if she will report on the The trend towards rationalisation and increased development of the bio-fuel sector in agriculture productivity in the sugar sector has been evident here and the potential for replacement employ- throughout the EU for some time. In the EU-15, ment following the decision of a company (details for example, the number of sugar plants declined supplied) to close the Carlow sugar factory. from 240 to 135 between 1990 and 2001, while [6974/05] employment in the sector declined from 37,000 to just over 20,000 over the same period. 178. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Agri- Following the closure of the Carlow plant, culture and Food if she will report on the Greencore intends to process the full Irish sugar development of the bio-fuel sector in agriculture quota at the Mallow plant. The latter plant will here and the potential for replacement employ- be upgraded at a cost of up to \25 million, dem- ment following the decision of company (details supplied) to close the Carlow sugar factory. onstrating the company’s commitment to main- [7054/05] taining an efficient sugar processing industry in Ireland into the future. I have had several meet- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary ing with stakeholders, including farm organis- Coughlan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 137 ations, about the future of sugar beet growing and and 178 together. processing in this country in the context of the The possibility of producing bio-fuel from forthcoming reform of the EU sugar regime. It is sugar beet is ultimately a commercial matter for this reform that poses the real challenge for the Irish Sugar Limited. The company has indicated Irish sugar industry and I will be continuing my that following the closure of the Carlow plant, it efforts to ensure that the future shape of the EU intends to process the full Irish sugar quota at its sugar regime will be consistent with the continu- Mallow plant, which will be upgraded. Arrange- ance of an efficient sugar beet growing and pro- ments are being made to transport the sugar beet cessing industry in this country. from the Carlow catchment area to Mallow. I am 135. Ms Burton asked the Minister for Agri- concerned about the loss of jobs associated with culture and Food the position with regard to dis- the closure of the Carlow factory and the per- cussions within the EU on proposed reforms of sonal impact the job losses will have on families. the EU sugar regime; and if she will make a state- I have been in contact with my colleague, the ment on the matter. [6954/05] Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment and I am aware that Enterprise Ireland is actively Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary looking at replacement jobs for the area. Coughlan): The EU Commission outlined its Promotion and development of renewable initial ideas for reform of the EU sugar regime in energy in Ireland are matters in the first instance a communication to the Council and the Euro- for the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources. In so far as renewable energy pean Parliament last July. The communication crops are concerned, Council Regulation (EC) was the subject of technical discussions at Council No. 1782/2003 establishing the single payment working group level in Brussels and there was a scheme, introduced an aid of \45 per hectare per policy debate at the Council of Agriculture Mini- year for areas sown with energy crops. The aid is sters’ meeting in November. granted in respect of areas where production is The European Commission’s initial ideas for covered by a contract between the farmer and a reform would, if adopted, have serious reper- processor, except in the case of processing under- cussions for sugar beet growing and processing in taken by the farmer on his holding. Agricultural this country and I have made it clear in dis- raw materials, with the exception of sugar beet, cussions in the Council of Ministers that they are may be grown under the energy crops scheme unacceptable. Ireland is in a group of ten member provided the crops are intended primarily for use states with shared concerns about the Com- in the production of products considered to be mission’s proposals in their current form and we biofuels and for electric and thermal energy pro- made a joint ministerial submission to the Com- duced from biomass. mission outlining these concerns. The next step A maximum guaranteed area of 1.5 million will be the publication of formal legislative pro- hectares for which aid for energy crops can be posals by the Commission. These are expected to granted has been established in the European emerge in June after the outcome of the EU Union. According to figures provided by the EU appeal against the ruling of the WTO sugar panel. Commission, in excess of 303,000 hectares was In the forthcoming negotiations, my overall sown with energy crops in 2004, of which 439 hec- objective will be to ensure that the future shape tares were Irish. From 1 January 2005, farmers of the EU sugar regime is consistent with the con- may claim the energy crop payment in addition 1533 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1534 to their entitlement under the single farm pay- card holders in public nursing homes; and if she ment. In addition to this scheme, set-aside land will make a statement on the matter. [7112/05] can be used for a variety of non-food uses, includ- Tanaiste and Minister for Health and Children ing growing of crops for energy purposes, and will ´ (Ms Harney): My Department is studying the therefore qualify to activate set-aside entitle- Supreme Court decision on the repayment of ments under the single payment scheme. Biomass charges for publicly-funded, long-term residential production from early forest thinning and short- care in detail and will take on board all the con- rotation forestry crops offer considerable scope sequences arising from the judgment for policy for use in renewable heat and electrical energy and law. A special Cabinet sub-committee com- production. In this regard, my Department, prising the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, through the offices of the National Council for Deputy Cowen, the Attorney General, Mr. Forest Research and Development, is closely Brady, and me has been established to consider involved with the work of the bioenergy strategy the issue of repayment in light of the judgment. group. This group was established by the Depart- Full details of a repayment scheme will be ment of Communications, Marine and Natural announced as soon as possible. It is intended to Resources in association with Sustainable Energy make the repayments mechanism is as automatic Ireland in December 2003. The objective of this as possible. group is to consider the policy options and support mechanisms available to Government to Any person who considers that he or she or a stimulate increased use of biomass for energy family member may be eligible for repayment conversion and to make specific recommend- may register interest in advance with the Health ations for action to increase the penetration of Service Executive by writing to the national biomass energy in Ireland. The group is inputting refund scheme, HSE Midland Area, Arden Road, into the renewable energy development group Tullamore, County Offaly. Interest can also be which is a group established and chaired by the registered by emailing refundscheme@- Department of Communications, Marine and mailq.hse.ie or by calling the help line 1800 Natural Resources. 777737 during office hours. 140. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Official Engagements. ster for Health and Children when the family of a 138. Mr. Durkan asked the Taoiseach the person (details supplied) in County Wexford will number of persons who travelled to China on the receive compensation or a refund. [7113/05] recent promotional trip; the cost to the State in respect of the entire trip including hotel or other Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children accommodation; and if he will make a statement (Ms Harney): My Department is studying the on the matter. [7248/05] Supreme Court decision on the repayment of charges for publicly-funded, long-term residential The Taoiseach: I made an official visit to China care in detail and will take on board all the con- and Hong Kong from 18 to 22 January at the invi- sequences arising from the judgment for policy tation of the authorities. The purpose of the visit and law. A special Cabinet sub-committee com- was to enhance Ireland’s strong economic and prising the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance, trade links with China. I was accompanied by the Deputy Cowen, the Attorney General, Mr. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Brady, and me has been established to consider the Minister for Agriculture and Food, the Mini- the issue of repayment in light of the judgment. ster for Education and Science and the Minister Full details of a repayment scheme will be for Communications, Marine and Natural announced as soon as possible. It is intended to Resources, as well as a large business delegation. make the repayments mechanism is as automatic There was a delegation of seven officials from my as possible. Department. Similarly, each Minister had officials Any person who considers that he or she or a accompanying the delegation. family member may be eligible for repayment Some of the costs of the visit were borne by may register interest in advance with the Health the host authorities in China and Hong Kong. In Service Executive by writing to the national addition, the relevant Departments will be refund scheme, HSE Midland Area, Arden Road, responsible for their own costs and the cost of Tullamore, County Offaly. Interest can also be business development events will be borne by registered by emailing refundscheme@- State agencies. While it will be some time before mailq.hse.ie or by calling the help line 1800 the costs are finalised, the cost to my Department 777737 during office hours. is estimated at \150,000. Hospital Services. Nursing Home Subventions. 141. Mr. Ring asked the Tańaiste and Minister 139. Mr. Kehoe asked the Tańaiste and Mini- for Health and Children the progress which has ster for Health and Children when a person been made in re-opening the hospice unit in the (details supplied) in County Wexford will be Sacred Heart Hospital, Castlebar, County reimbursed following over charging of medical Mayo. [7209/05] 1535 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1536

Minister of State at the Department of Health with cystic fibrosis, and with patients with other and Children (Mr. S. Power): The Health Act illnesses; if her attention has been drawn to the 2004 provided for the creation of the Health Ser- high risk of cross-infection from these patients vice Executive which was established on 1 and to the hazard that this may present to cystic January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has fibrosis patients; and if she will make a statement the responsibility to manage and deliver or on the matter. [7213/05] arrange to have delivered on its behalf health and personal social services. Its responsibilities Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children include the provision of palliative care. Accord- (Ms Harney): I propose to take Questions Nos. ingly, my Department has requested the chief 144 and 145 together. officer of the executive’s western area to investi- The Health Act 2004 provided for the creation gate the matter raised and reply directly to the of the Health Service Executive which was estab- Deputy. lished on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has the responsibility to manage and Health Services. deliver or arrange to have delivered on its behalf health and personal social services. Its 142. Mr. Ring asked the Tańaiste and Minister responsibilities include the provision of hospital for Health and Children the reason full replies services to patients with cystic fibrosis. Accord- have not been received from the Health Services ingly, my Department has requested the director Executive to Parliamentary Questions Nos. 211 of the national hospitals office of the Health Ser- and 212 of 26 January 2005. [7210/05] vice Executive to investigate the matters raised Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children and reply to the Deputy directly. (Ms Harney): I understand that the Health Ser- vice Executive’s western area authority has issued Food Safety Standards. a response to the Deputy dated 28 February 2005. 146. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children her strategies Hospital Services. to deal with food safety; and if she will make a 143. Mr. Ring asked the Tańaiste and Minister statement on the matter. [7214/05] for Health and Children when a person (details Minister of State at the Department of Health supplied) in County Mayo will be called to and Children (Mr. S. Power): In Ireland responsi- Galway Regional Hospital for a procedure. bility for food safety is shared across a number [7211/05] of Departments and agencies. For example, the Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children Department of Agriculture and Food is respon- (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for sible for policy matters in relation to food of ani- the creation of the Health Service Executive mal origin while the Department of Communi- which was established on 1 January 2005. Under cations, Marine and Natural Resources is the Act, the executive has the responsibility to responsible for policy aspects of fishing and aqua- manage and deliver or arrange to have delivered culture. My Department has policy responsibility on its behalf health and personal social services. for food safety in retail and catering establish- Its responsibilities include the provision of ser- ments, and in plants manufacturing foods of non- vices at Galway Regional Hospital. Accordingly, animal origin. my Department has requested the chief officer In January 1999 the Food Safety Authority of of the executive’s western area to investigate the Ireland was established as a statutory, indepen- matter raised and reply directly to the Deputy. dent and science-based body operating under the aegis of my Department. Its principal function is Health Services. to take all reasonable steps to ensure that food produced, distributed or marketed in the State 144. Dr. Upton asked the Tańaiste and Mini- meets the highest standards of food safety and in ster for Health and Children her plans to provide particular to ensure that such food complies with a microbiological reference laboratory for testing food legislation and where appropriate with samples from cystic fibrosis patients; if her atten- recognised codes of good practice. The authority tion has been drawn to the fact that certain carries out its enforcement functions through ser- samples must be sent to the UK for testing, vice contracts with official agencies. These con- resulting in delay in the commencement of appro- tracts outline an agreed level and standard of priate treatment; her views on whether this delay food safety activity that the agencies perform as may seriously affect the severity of the infection; agents of the authority. The authority has service and if she will make a statement on the contracts with county councils and city councils, matter. [7212/05] the Health Service Executive — formerly the 145. Dr. Upton asked the Tańaiste and Mini- health boards, the Department of Agriculture ster for Health and Children her plans to speed and Food, the Department of Communications, up the provision of single hospital rooms for Marine and Natural Resources, the Office of the patients with cystic fibrosis; if her attention has Director of Consumer Affairs and the Marine been drawn to the fact that patients are currently Institute. In addition, the authority has memor- allocated beds in the same wards as other patients andums of understanding in place with the Radio- 1537 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1538 logical Protection Institute of Ireland and the elements which are EU and State funds in each Customs and Excise service. respective year; the purposes for which these I am satisfied that the food safety structures in funds are utilised; and if she will make a state- place have delivered a high level of consumer ment on the matter. [7276/05] protection and confidence in the safety of food Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children produced and marketed in this country. However, (Ms Harney): Cheques written and not presented this matter is reviewed on an ongoing basis — for payment to a bank are cancelled out of date particularly in the light of developments at EU automatically after six months. In the matter of level. funding provided for the health services, approxi- Health Services. mately 83% of gross spending is Exchequer funding, with the remainder coming from health agen- 147. Mr. Lowry asked the Tańaiste and Mini- cies income, which includes patient charges and ster for Health and Children the situation with payroll deductions, and appropriations-in-aid, regard to orthodontic treatment in the mid-west- mainly comprised health contributions, excise ern region of the HSE and in North Tipperary; if duty on tobacco and recovery of health service she will deal with the huge waiting list for chil- costs under EU regulations. dren in the region; her plans to deal with any pay The Health Act 2004 provided for the Health differential between qualified orthodontic Service Executive, which was established on 1 specialist in the region by comparison with other January 2005. Under the Act, the executive has regions; and if she will make a statement on the the responsibility to manage and deliver, or matter. [7215/05] arrange to be delivered on its behalf, health and Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children personal social services. The information (Ms Harney): The Health Act 2004 provided for requested by the Deputy is not routinely col- the Health Service Executive, HSE, which was lected by my Department. Therefore, my Depart- established on 1 January 2005. Under the Act, the ment has requested the chief officer of each of executive has the responsibility to manage and the executive’s regional areas to reply directly to deliver, or arrange to be delivered on its behalf, the Deputy with the information requested. health and personal social services. This includes responsibility for orthodontic services. Accord- Tribunals of Inquiry. ingly, my Department has requested the chief 150. Mr. Deasy asked the Tańaiste and Mini- officer for the executive’s mid western area to ster for Health and Children the reason funding investigate the matter of orthodontic treatment has been withdrawn from a group (details and orthodontic specialist pay and to reply supplied) in respect of the Dunne Inquiry; if she directly to the Deputy. is satisfied that the chairman’s report will be ready by 31 March 2005 as promised; and if she Nursing Home Subventions. will make a statement on the matter. [7283/05] 148. Mr. Lowry asked the Tańaiste and Mini- Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children ster for Health and Children the estimated (Ms Harney): Funding has not been withdrawn number of persons to whom money is owed in from the Parents for Justice group. A sum of north Tipperary as a result of the Supreme Court \150,000 was provided to fund the group from decision of 16 February 2005 that the Health January 2005 to 30 June 2005. The situation in (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2004 is unconsti- relation to subsequent funding after that date will tutional; if no estimate is available, when such will be assessed in the coming months. be made available; and if she will make a state- I have conveyed the Government decision of ment on the matter. [7216/05] September 2004, that the inquiry shall cease to Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children exist after 31 March 2005 to the chairman of the (Ms Harney): My Department is currently study- post mortem inquiry and I expect to receive the ing the Supreme Court judgment in detail and chairman’s report on or before that date. will take on board all the consequences for policy Private Health Insurance. and law arising from the judgement. The details of a repayment scheme to address 151. Mr. Stanton asked the Tańaiste and Mini- the situation following the Supreme Court ster for Health and Children if regulations have decision are currently being finalised and it is been made to enable persons aged 65 and over only following this that it would be possible to who decide to avail of private health insurance calculate the money owed by specific area. cover for the first time or wish to renew cover after a material break in previous cover to do so; Health Service Payments. if not, when such regulations will be made; and if she will make a statement on the matter. 149. Mr. Naughten asked the Tańaiste and [7289/05] Minister for Health and Children the total value and number of uncashed cheques issued by each Tańaiste and Minister for Health and Children health board in each of the past five years; the (Ms Harney): The Health Insurance 1539 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1540

[Ms Harney.] 3. Directive 2004/17/EC: Revised Utilities (Amendment) Act 2001 contained provision for Sector Procurement Directive. This directive the introduction of a system of lifetime com- co-ordinates the procurement procedures of munity rating which will involve allowing health entities operating in the water, energy, trans- insurers to apply late entry premium loadings to port and postal services sector. The deadline persons who delay taking out insurance cover for implementation is 30 January 2006. until, or after the age of 35 years. Under this 4. Directive 2004/39/EC: Markets in Finan- system, access to cover will be open to persons cial Instruments Directive, MIFID. This aged 65 or over who decide to avail of cover for directive allows investment firms to provide the first time, or wish to renew cover after a their services across the EU on the basis of material break in previous cover. their home country authorisation, that is, it will While the primary legislation is in place, the give them an effective “single passport”. The detailed implementation of lifetime community deadline for implementation is 30 April 2006. rating will be by way of regulations. Drafting of the regulations is currently in train and they will 5. Directive 2004/069 Commission Directive be introduced as soon as is practicable. of 27 April 2004. This directive amends the definition of “multilateral development banks” EU Directives. in the codified banking directive to include the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency, 152. Mr. Hogan asked the Minister for Finance MIGA. The deadline for implementation was the number of EU directives and regulations for 30 June 2004. An infringement notice, No. which his Department has responsibility and 2004/0921, has been received. This directive which have yet to be implemented; the matters will be transposed shortly. covered by these measures; the number in respect of which the deadline of implementation has 6. Council Directive 2003/92/EC of 7 passed; if he is satisfied with the rate of com- October 2003 amending Directive 77/388/EEC pliance by his Department; the number of cases as regards the rules for VAT on the place of in which legal actions have been notified or com- supply of gas and electricity. This directive was menced by the EU Commission arising from a transposed through a number of sections in failure to implement a directive; and if he will Part 3 of the Finance Act 2004 ahead of the make a statement on the matter. [7281/05] transposition deadline of 1 January 2005. Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): There are 7. Council Directive 2003/96/EC of 27 currently nine EU directives for which my October 2003 restructuring the Community Department has responsibility which have yet to framework for the taxation of energy products be implemented. The deadline has passed in the and electricity. The deadline was 31 December case of five of these. However, one of these five 2003. Ireland was already in compliance with was transposed through a number of sections in all significant requirements of the directive Part 3 of the Finance Act 2004 ahead of the trans- prior to 1 January 2004. In relation to the out- position deadline of 1 January 2005 but the Euro- standing elements of this directive, we have pean Commission is still treating it as being over- already informed the Commission that they due. Attempts are being made to resolve the will be transposed through the Finance Bill issue. Two of the five listed as being overdue will 2005. be transposed in the Finance Bill 2005 while in 8. Council Directive 2004/56/EC of 21 April the case of a third, a statutory instrument is in the 2004 amending Directive 77/799/EEC concern- process of being finalised and will be transposed ing mutual assistance by the competent auth- speedily. An infringement notice, No. 2004/0921, orities of the member states in the field of has been received in respect of the remaining direct taxation and taxation of insurance pre- directive where the transposition deadline has miums. The deadline was 1 January 2005. A passed. This will be transposed shortly. The statutory instrument is in the process of being details of each of the directives are as follows: finalised and will be transposed speedily. 1. Directive 2003/98/EC: Re-use of Public 9. Council Directive 2004/66/EC of 26 April Sector Information. This directive lays down 2004 adapting a number directives, in the fields ground rules for the re-use of public sector of free movement of goods, freedom to provide information for commercial purposes. The services, agriculture, transport policy and tax- deadline for implementation is 1 July 2005. ation by reason of the accession of the ten new 2. Directive 2004/18/EC: Revised Public Sec- member states. The deadline was 1 May 2004. tor Procurement Directive. This directive co- The remaining taxation aspects of this ordinates the procurement procedures for the directive, namely the taxation of savings award of public works contracts, public supply aspects, will be transposed through the Finance contracts and public service contracts. The Bill 2005. deadline for implementation is 30 January There are two cases where directives have 2006. already been transposed but where a legal action 1541 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1542 has been notified or commenced by the EU made last year, following consideration of a Commission. recommendation of the 1999 McDowell report. The first relates to infringement notice, No. The Act subjects all lenders who provide fin- 2004/0924, for Commission Directive 2004/79/EC ance on the security of the family home to a range of 4 March 2004. That directive adapting of obligations. These include: provision of a writ- Directive 2002/94/EC in the field of taxation, by ten loan agreement; quoting the APR and any reason of the accession of the ten new member other fees that will be charged; a requirement to states was transposed into Irish law on 15 warn the borrower about the risk of losing their December 2004 by way of a Statutory Instrument home; and an obligation to put mortgage protec- No. 851 of 2004. In response to the infringement tion insurance in place. Apart from the special notice of 13 December 2004, the Irish permanent case of the family home, the Act does not apply representation notified the Commission of our where a loan is given for a commercial purpose. previous correspondence alerting them to the There is no statutory oversight of interest rates, directive’s transposition and subsequently sought except for the special case of moneylenders who the withdrawal of the infringement notice. As a come within the scope of Part 8 of the Consumer result of further follow up contact, we now under- Credit Act. This special category of lender typi- stand that it will be proposed that the infringe- cally provides short-term loans to poor credit ment procedure be suspended in the coming risks at very high APRs. Such lenders are weeks. required to hold a moneylender’s licence and the The second relates to infringement notice, No financial regulator can refuse to grant such a 2004/4084, which has been received from the licence on the grounds that the cost of credit is European Commission concerning the general excessive. The requirement to hold such a licence, treatment for VAT purposes of services provided and the corresponding oversight of interest rates, by public bodies and local authorities and the only applies to this specialist category of lender. transposition in this regard of certain provisions The financial regulator already has the power of the sixth VAT directive. The sixth VAT under the Consumer Credit Act to give directions directive has been transposed into Irish law but to a mortgage lender in relation to misleading the Commission is now querying the complete- advertising, as well as to prosecute for breaches ness of the transposition in the area of the general of the Act. In addition, under the legislation treatment for VAT purposes of services provided establishing the regulator, its consumer director by public bodies and local authorities. has responsibility for monitoring the provision of financial services to consumers generally and the Every effort is being made in my Department, power to require a provider of such services to in conjunction with the Office of the Attorney furnish information relevant to any inquiry or General and Parliamentary Counsel to the study that the director chooses to undertake. Government, to ensure that outstanding I am at present consulting the Ombudsman directives will be transposed as a matter of Council about the financial service providers, not urgency and that remaining directives will be regulated by the financial regulator, that should transposed on time and that the other issues be brought within the scope of the Financial Ser- raised by the Commission will be resolved as soon vices Ombudsman, when the ombudsman com- as possible. mences operations on 1 April. The ombudsman has extensive powers to provide redress to con- Banking Sector Regulation. sumers who have been unfairly treated by a finan- 153. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Fin- cial service provider. Subject to the views of the ance if his attention has been drawn to financial council, I can see merit in including those mort- companies that may not be subject to financial gage lenders who provide loans secured on a per- regulations and which may be charging extraordi- son’s principal residence. narily high interest rates; if so, his plans to deal The authorisation and supervision system that with same; and if he will make a statement on the is in place in relation to deposit-taking insti- matter. [7292/05] tutions is primarily designed to protect their depositor customers and the general stability of Minister for Finance (Mr. Cowen): I assume the financial system. I do not at present have evi- that the Deputy is referring to non-deposit-taking dence to suggest that an extension of the financial financial service providers who offer loans regulator’s powers in relation to non-deposit-tak- secured on property to persons who are perceived ing mortgage lenders would be justified, bearing as poor credit risks and are thus unable to secure in mind that there are no depositors to be con- credit from mainstream lenders. sidered and that the additional costs involved The Consumer Credit Act is the principal would ultimately fall on their borrower source of protection to personal borrowers. All customers. However, should such evidence financial service providers that provide loans emerge from consideration by the financial regu- secured on a person’s principal private residence lator, the ombudsman or other sources, I am open are subject to the provisions of Part 9 of the Act. to making suitable amendments to the law. The This is as a result of an amendment to the Act forthcoming Bill to consolidate and modernise 1543 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1544

[Mr. Cowen.] opers in its QRA took into account the issues our financial services legislation could offer a raised by the Deputy. suitable vehicle for such amendments. As part of my Department’s evaluation of the plan of development process including pipelines, Fisheries Protection. an independent evaluation of the pipeline design 154. Mr. McCormack asked the Minister for code was commissioned from an experienced pet- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources roleum pipeline consultant, Mr. Andrew his views on the recommendation of the National Johnston. The consultant’s report entitled “Cor- Salmon Commission that salmon drift net fisher- rib Gas Pipeline Project: Report on Evaluation of men be allowed to continue drift net fishing, Onshore Pipeline Design Code”, submitted to my which is threatening salmon stocks; the proposed Department in March 2002 concluded as follows: quota for 2005 for drift net fishermen; the pro- the pipeline design code has been selected in posed quota for rod anglers; the areas in which accordance with best public safety considerations no salmon may be caught; and if he will make a and is appropriate for the pipeline operating con- statement on the matter. [7269/05] ditions; the design of the onshore pipeline is generally in accordance with code selection and best Minister of State at the Department of national and international industry practice, pro- Communications, Marine and Natural Resources vided that the actions recommended in section 2.2 (Mr. Gallagher): I rely upon the advice of the are followed; the pipeline is considered to be national salmon commission and the regional adequately protected from third party inter- fisheries boards’ managers in determining the ference by burial to 1.2 metres and provision of terms of the wild salmon and sea trout tagging marker tape above the pipeline; the pipeline is scheme which, inter alia, sets out district quotas considered to meet public safety requirements as for the commercial catch and the conservation of outlined in the selected design code, provided salmon and sea trout bye-law which provides for that the actions recommended in section 2.2 are angling bag limits and total allowable catch. followed. I met the National Salmon Commission on 22 The recommendations of section 2.2 have been February last, in the course of its meeting at incorporated in the statutory approvals issued for which it was considering the scientific and man- the Corrib development. The design of the con- agement advice available with a view to making trol system ensures that any damage to the recommendations on the management of the wild umbilical system will result in the gas wells being salmon fishery in 2005. The commission had not shut down. I advise the Deputy that all subsea completed its discussions at that time. wells are designed in this way. Once I have received the detailed recommendations from the commission, the Department’s Electricity Generation. officials will proceed to finalise the draft regu- 156. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for lations to give effect to any proposed Communications, Marine and Natural Resources adjustments. if he will commission an urgent feasibility study It is my intention to publish the draft wild into the need to replace the existing peat power salmon and sea trout tagging scheme regulations station, which is closing down with the loss of for a 30-day consultation period later this month, more than 200 jobs, with a new peat burning 100 in accordance with the requirements of the Fish- megawatt power station (details supplied). eries Acts. During this time, interested parties [7271/05] will have an opportunity to submit any objections they may have. Following the receipt and con- Minister for Communications, Marine and sideration of these, I will then make a final Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): Idonot decision on the scheme. propose to commission a feasibility study into the need, or otherwise, for any further peat-fired Environmental Protection. electricity generating plant. The location, construction and operation of electricity generating 155. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for stations are liberalised activities in an open and Communications, Marine and Natural Resources competitive market. An authorisation is required if a health and safety possibility (details supplied) to construct a generating station and a licence is has been addressed by the EIS; and if he will required to generate electricity as prescribed by make a statement on the matter. [7270/05] the Electricity Regulation Act 1999. These are Minister for Communications, Marine and issued by the Commission for Energy Regulation, Natural Resources (Mr. N. Dempsey): The CER. Responsibility for security of supply also environmental impact statement, EIS, dealt rests with the CER. In addition, planning per- specifically with environmental matters and the mission is required from the local authority con- quantified risk assessment, QRA, addressed cerned and a grid connection must be secured safety issues, among other things. The design from ESB national grid. Appropriate licences and codes for the pipeline as proposed by the devel- authorisations, such as an integrated pollution 1545 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1546 control licence from the Environmental Protec- The International Committee of the Red Cross tion Agency, are also necessary. and the United Nations interim Administration I do not have a function in any of these matters. in Kosovo have determined that over 3,000 It is a matter, therefore, for market players to people are still unaccounted for since the end of undertake whatever feasibility studies they deem the conflict in Kosovo. The majority of these are necessary in order to make a commercial decision from the Kosovo Albanian community but the on whether or not to enter the electricity market. figure includes several hundred Kosovo Serbs The Deputy will be aware that public service obli- and people from other ethnic minority communi- gation, PSO, arrangements, which were notified ties. The Kosovo Action Network has focused in to the EU Commission in November 2000, are in particular on the unacceptable failure of the Serb place in respect of peat generation for security of authorities to release the bodies of some 800 supply reasons. These arrangements provide for people believed to have been killed in Kosovo, the use of peat in three generating plants in the which were exhumed from mass graves in Serbia Midlands — one independently owned and in 2001. operating since December 2000, and two owned I agree fully with Mr. Soren Jessen-Petersen, and operated by the ESB. the special representative of the UN Secretary The PSO levy, which is charged to all con- General in Kosovo, that the families of the miss- sumers and impacts on the country’s energy costs, ing have been suffering for too long. The auth- compensates the ESB for the additional costs orities concerned have a clear responsibility to do incurred in using peat in electricity generation. I everything in their power to resolve this issue am satisfied that the level of peat in the generat- without any further delay. ing fuel mix is sufficient. I do not believe there is As a result of the efforts of the EU and the an adequate basis for reopening this issue with UN, in co-operation with the Government of the EU Commission. Serbia and the provisional institutions of self- government in Kosovo, progress was made in Colombia Three Case. October 2003 on the opening of a direct dialogue 157. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Foreign between Belgrade and Pristina on issues of mut- Affairs if he will make a statement on the posi- ual concern. A working group on missing persons tion regarding persons (details supplied) and was established, but met only once, in March their present location; his views on their serving 2004. The direct dialogue was suspended follow- a sentence; and if he will make a statement on ing the outbreak of ethnic violence in Kosovo on the matter. [7268/05] 17 March 2004. The EU and the wider international com- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): munity have strongly encouraged both sides, and The current position is that the three men in question each received sentences and fines as part Belgrade in particular, to resume the direct dia- of the appeal decision made by the Colombian logue. I welcome the progress which has been courts on 16 December 2004. I understand that made in recent weeks as a result of meetings the legal process is not yet exhausted and that a between Mr. Soren Jessen Petersen and the auth- possibility exists for a further appeal by the orities in Belgrade. As a result, the direct dia- defence. logue on missing persons will resume on 10 My Department will continue to monitor this March, with a meeting in Belgrade, under the case. However, I have no knowledge of the auspices of the special representative of the UN present location of the three men. Secretary General and chaired by the Inter- national Committee of the Red Cross. It is essen- Foreign Conflicts. tial that all parties engage in the dialogue with a determination to achieve early results for the 158. Mr. Gregory asked the Minister for For- families of all the missing in Kosovo. eign Affairs his views on the ongoing request of This will be a crucial year for Kosovo. During the Kosovo action network for the return of the summer, the UN will preside over a compre- approximately 800 bodies of Kosovan Albanians hensive review of the implementation of reforms killed by Serbian paramilitaries and related based on European standards. If the review is demands; if he will raise this issue at international positive, it will be followed by the opening of a fora; and if he will make a statement on the process to agree the constitutional status of matter. [7282/05] Kosovo, which will be facilitated by the inter- Minister for Foreign Affairs (Mr. D. Ahern): national community. The EU will play an More than five years since the end of the conflict important role in this process, in order to ensure in 1999, the unresolved fate of missing persons is that the agreed outcome is fully compatible with a continuing tragedy for many families in Kosovo. the process of European integration. In these cir- This is, above all, a serious humanitarian issue. It cumstances, it is essential that a real dialogue is also an obstacle to the reconciliation between resumes between Belgrade and Pristina and that communities which is essential for the creation of the Kosovo Serb community now has the confi- a democratic, multi-ethnic society in Kosovo. dence to re-engage in the political process as soon 1547 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1548

[Mr. D. Ahern.] early resolution of the tragic issue of missing per- as possible, and take its place in the provisional sons would not only ease the suffering of families institutions of self government. across Kosovo, but make a significant contribution to the work of building a truly multi-eth- The EU has given a clear commitment that the nic society. long-term future of the western Balkans region, including Kosovo, rests within the European Sports Capital Programme. Union. The meeting of the External Relations 159. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- Council, which I attended in Brussels on 21 ster for Arts, Sport and Tourism the amount of February, confirmed that Kosovo will not return funding allocated on a county basis for each of to the situation which existed before 1999, and the years 2000 to 2005 inclusive under the sports reaffirmed the commitment to a multi-ethnic and capital programme. [7217/05] democratic Kosovo which contributes to the stab- Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. ility of the region and which adheres to the values O’Donoghue): The information requested by the and standards of the EU. I am convinced that an Deputy is contained in the following table:

County 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004

££\\\ Carlow 369,494 1,168,159 489,000 440,000 782,000 Cavan 452,027 591,698 691,200 580,000 925,000 Clare 1,170,699 898,975 1,123,000 1,125,000 1,727,000 Cork 3,850,481 4,769,132 7,257,000 5,545,400 6,524,000 Donegal 5,142,439 3,211,168 5,049,000 1,177,500 1,802,000 Dublin 15,579,305 13,908,710 23,075,900 14,605,500 14,041,000 Galway 1,512,258 3,192,122 3,058,000 2,558,000 3,402,000 Kerry 1,258,310 2,119,193 3,335,200 3,748,000 4,476,000 Kildare 2,541,381 3,853,655 4,870,000 3,166,000 3,357,000 Kilkenny 529,481 763,747 1,116,500 942,500 850,000 Laois 437,425 1,197,363 1,189,000 450,000 786,000 Leitrim 666,612 439,964 821,600 454,800 479,000 Limerick 956,113 2,705,812 2,776,000 2,485,500 1,925,000 Longford 751,685 648,836 759,400 576,000 745,000 Louth 559,954 1,339,574 2,545,000 1,342,100 1,644,000 Mayo 982,777 1,625,265 2,284,000 1,574,600 1,594,000 Meath 1,192,284 1,477,975 1,605,000 2,560,000 2,260,000 Monaghan 502,181 615,823 1,233,000 485,000 996,000 Offaly 688,198 618,997 405,000 1,004,000 1,157,000 Roscommon 714,863 1,206,251 1,301,000 777,600 1,027,000 Sligo 591,063 1,250,692 1,527,600 963,000 1,453,000 Tipperary 1,042,455 1,802,393 2,478,000 1,657,000 2,398,000 Waterford 1,010,711 3,133,714 3,253,000 2,210,000 2,080,000 Westmeath 651,376 1,319,258 2,569,000 707,000 1,083,000 Wexford 1,227,837 915,481 2,206,000 1,221,000 1,887,000 Wicklow 1,115,465 1,405,600 1,813,000 1,003,000 1,700,000

Totals 45,496,874 56,179,561 78,830,400 53,358,500 61,100,000

Applications for funding under the 2005 sports applications for funding under the sports capital capital programme were invited through adver- programme; and the number of those which were tisements in the press on 5 and 6 December 2004. successful on a county basis for each of the years The closing date for receipt of applications was 4 between 2000 and 2005. [7218/05] February 2005. All applications, including those from each of the clubs in question, are currently Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. being evaluated against the programme’s assess- O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports ment criteria, which are outlined in the guide- capital programme, which is administered by my lines, terms and conditions of the programme. I Department, allocates funding to sporting and intend to announce the grant allocations for the community organisations at local, regional and programme as soon as possible after the assess- national level throughout the country. The prog- ment process has been completed. ramme is advertised on an annual basis. The following schedule contains the infor- 160. Ms B. Moynihan-Cronin asked the Mini- mation requested by the Deputy for each year ster for Arts, Sport and Tourism the number of from 2000 to 2004: 1549 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1550

County 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000

Apps. Grants Apps. Grants Apps. Grants Apps. Grants Apps. Grants

Carlow 16 12 23 8 18 14 17 12 25 14 Cavan 25 15 30 8 30 14 33 14 44 14 Clare 25 19 42 21 40 27 48 18 48 25 Cork 128 81 157 68 154 100 164 71 204 71 Donegal 62 26 69 24 115 63 95 42 102 38 Dublin 252 141 192 105 202 129 198 99 246 100 Galway 73 39 81 34 79 50 72 38 84 29 Kerry 90 50 86 48 65 48 76 33 73 31 Kildare 44 27 44 24 45 30 58 38 51 29 Kilkenny 25 18 36 21 30 21 23 15 32 16 Laois 25 19 23 18 23 20 44 22 34 18 Leitrim 27 10 25 8 20 17 25 16 29 13 Limerick 45 28 66 29 69 44 55 24 51 22 Longford 29 10 29 7 22 16 29 15 23 15 Louth 37 22 42 23 37 21 44 26 43 19 Mayo 50 23 51 21 60 27 79 17 69 18 Meath 32 18 31 20 27 15 27 16 43 20 Monaghan 26 17 27 9 36 18 45 13 44 17 Offaly 29 17 31 18 13 9 29 18 37 23 Roscommon 35 19 33 11 25 15 36 17 39 19 Sligo 30 13 28 12 30 16 33 13 44 16 Tipperary 54 27 51 24 61 31 61 32 71 24 Waterford 41 29 34 16 30 24 44 19 50 22 Westmeath 30 18 28 13 41 29 42 27 44 19 Wexford 41 27 46 19 53 34 60 27 64 28 Wicklow 33 15 32 10 39 27 30 14 51 19

Totals 1,304 740 1,337 619 1,364 859 1,467 696 1,645 679

Applications for funding under the 2005 prog- County Applications ramme were invited through advertisements in the press on 5 and 6 December 2004. The closing Meath 28 date for receipt of applications was 4 February Monaghan 39 2005. Subject to confirmation, a total of 1,355 Offaly 35 applications were received under the programme Roscommon 32 and the following are the details on a county Sligo 21 basis: Tipperary 56 Waterford 40 County Applications Westmeath 25 Carlow 22 Wexford 38 Cavan 20 Wicklow 27 Clare 33 Total 1,355 Cork 151 Donegal 59 All of these applications are currently being Dublin 266 evaluated against the programme’s assessment Galway 95 criteria, which are outlined in the guidelines, Kerry 81 terms and conditions of the programme. I intend Kildare 44 to announce the grant allocations for the prog- Kilkenny 26 ramme as soon as possible after the assessment Laois 22 process has been completed. Leitrim 23 161. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Arts, Limerick 59 Sport and Tourism the grants which were Longford 18 awarded to County Mayo organisations under the Louth 42 sports capital programme since 2002; the breakdown of each organisation and the amounts paid Mayo 53 to same. [7219/05] 1551 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1552

Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. O’Donoghue): The information requested by the Deputy is contained in the following table.

Grantee 2002 2003 2004 Total

Grant Paid Grant Paid Grant Paid Grant Paid

\\\\\\\ \

Aghamore GAA Club 0 0 96,000 96,000 0 0 96,000 96,000 Balla GAA Club 0 0 0 0 90,000 0 90,000 0 Ballina Rugby Football Club 150,000 150,000 0 0 0 0 150,000 150,000 Ballina Tennis Club Ltd 70,000 69,990 0 0 0 0 70,000 69,990 Ballina Town AFC 200,000 79,015 0 0 0 0 200,000 79,015 Ballinrobe Golf Club 40,000 40,000 0 0 0 0 40,000 40,000 Ballinrobe RFC 0 0 60,000 0 45,000 0 105,000 0 Ballinrobe Town Soccer Club 100,000 95,000 0 0 60,000 0 160,000 95,000 Ballintubber GAA Club 50,000 0 0 0 0 0 50,000 0 Ballycroy Field Management Company Ltd 30,000 30,000 0 0 0 0 30,000 30,000 Ballyglass Association Football & Social Club 0 0 0 0 50,000 0 50,000 0 Ballyhaunis RFC 0 0 48,000 0 0 0 48,000 0 Ballyheane Community Sports Club Ltd 100,000 100,000 0 0 0 0 100,000 100,000 Ballyheane Football Club 60,000 60,000 45,000 0 45,000 0 150,000 60,000 Ballyvary-Keelogues Development Company 0 0 0 0 90,000 0 90,000 0 Bangor Hibs FC Ltd 30,000 30,000 0 0 25,000 0 55,000 30,000 Breaffy GAA Club 200,000 190,000 0 0 100,000 0 300,000 190,000 Carracastle Community Council 0 0 0 0 35,000 0 35,000 0 Castlebar Celtic FC 0 0 60,000 0 0 0 60,000 0 Castlebar United FC 0 0 15,000 15,000 0 0 15,000 15,000 Charlestown Bellaghy & Districts Sports Complex 90,000 0 0 0 0 0 90,000 0 Charlestown Sarsfields GAA Club 96,000 75,200 0 0 0 0 96,000 75,200 Claremorris AFC 50,000 50,000 40,000 40,000 55,000 0 145,000 90,000 Claremorris Golf Club 72,000 72,000 0 0 0 0 72,000 72,000 Cloonfad United FC 120,000 39,320 0 0 120,000 39,320 Conn Rangers AFC Ltd 60,000 60,000 60,000 0 0 0 120,000 60,000 Connaught Amateur Boxing Provincial Council 5,000 5,000 0 0 0 0 5,000 5,000 Crossmolina AFC 0 0 35,000 8,740 0 0 35,000 8,740 Eastern Gaels GAA Club 0 0 0 0 45,000 0 45,000 0 Foxford Sport and Leisure 0 0 0 0 200,000 0 200,000 0 Glenans Irish Sailing Club 40,000 40,000 0 0 0 0 40,000 40,000 Grainne Uaile Sub-Aqua Club 15,000 15,000 0 0 0 0 15,000 15,000 Greenhills Community Development Ltd. 50,000 0 0 0 0 0 50,000 0 Kilfian GAA Club 0 0 60,000 58,613 0 0 60,000 58,613 Killala Community Council 0 0 18,000 18,000 0 0 18,000 18,000 Kilmaine Boxing Club 0 0 0 0 4,000 0 4,000 0 Kilmaine Community Centre & Grounds 80,000 80,000 0 0 0 0 80,000 80,000 Kilmeena GAA Club 25,000 0 0 0 0 0 25,000 0 Kiltane GAA Community Complex 120,000 120,000 0 0 0 0 120,000 120,000 Kiltimagh/Knock United FC 0 0 120,000 114,000 0 0 120,000 114,000 Knockmore GAA Club 0 0 0 0 170,000 0 170,000 0 Lacken Sports and Recreation Association 0 0 0 0 30,000 0 30,000 0 Lacken United Football Club 48,000 0 0 0 0 48,000 0 Lahardane McHales GAA Club 0 0 0 0 80,000 0 80,000 0 Mayo Association Football League 300,000 300,000 300,000 300,000 0 0 600,000 600,000 Mayo County Council — Knockaphunta, Castlebar 200,000 0 0 0 0 0 200,000 0 Mayo Gaels GAA Club 0 0 0 0 25,000 25,000 25,000 25,000 Mayo Sailing Club/Mayo Yacht Club 0 0 150,000 0 0 0 150,000 0 Mayo Wheelers Cycling Club 3,000 3,000 0 0 0 0 3,000 3,000 Neale GAA Club 0 0 40,000 0 0 0 40,000 0 1553 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1554

Grantee 2002 2003 2004 Total

Grant Paid Grant Paid Grant Paid Grant Paid

\\\\\\\ \ Shrule Community Sportsfield 0 0 30,000 30,000 0 0 30,000 30,000 Snugboro United FC 0 0 100,000 100,000 0 0 100,000 100,000 Straide and Foxford United 0 0 0 0 100,000 0 100,000 0 St. Patrick’s GAA Club, Westport 0 0 0 0 90,000 0 90,000 0 Swinford Amenities Development 0 0 0 0 200,000 200,000 0 Swinford Handball Club 0 0 0 0 10,000 0 10,000 0 Swinford Soccer Club 0 0 72,000 0 40,000 0 112,000 0 Tooreen Hurling Club 0 0 96,000 90,623 0 0 96,000 90,623 Urlaur Sports Centre 0 0 9,600 9,600 0 0 9,600 9,600 Western Lakes Cycling Club 0 0 0 0 5,000 0 5,000 0

Total 2,284,000 1,664,205 1,574,600 919,896 1,594,000 25,000 5,452,600 2,609,101

Enterprise, Trade and Employment if a work per- 162. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism if he will approve an appli- mit will be issued to a person (details supplied); cation by a company (details supplied) in County and if he will make a statement on the matter. Roscommon under the sports capital programme; [7250/05] and if he will make a statement on the matter. Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- [7277/05] ment (Mr. Martin): I am informed that there is no record of a valid work permit application in Minister for Arts, Sport and Tourism (Mr. this case. Applications which are incomplete or O’Donoghue): The national lottery-funded sports incorrect are returned to the employer for capital programme, which is administered by my Department, allocates funding to sporting and completion. community organisations at local, regional and In the aftermath of EU enlargement, it is national level throughout the country. The prog- Government’s policy that employers should be ramme is advertised on an annual basis. able to source nearly all of their workforce needs Applications for funding under the 2005 prog- from within the EU. Accordingly, only in cases ramme were invited through advertisements in where exceptional levels of skill and qualifi- the press on 5 and 6 December last. The closing cations are needed for the job, and the employer date for receipt of applications was 4 February has made meaningful attempts to find EEA 2005. All applications, including one from the nationals first, will my Department now consider club in question, are currently being evaluated work permit applications. against the programme’s assessment criteria, which are outlined in the guidelines, terms and Grocery Industry. conditions of the programme. I intend to announce the grant allocations for the prog- 165. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for ramme as soon as possible after the assessment Enterprise, Trade and Employment his position process has been completed. on reviewing the Groceries Order; when he intends the consumer strategy group to report; Non-Resident Companies. and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7278/05] 163. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment if any worker Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- in the construction industry is being paid by ment (Mr. Martin): I have received a copy of the means of off-shore companies; and if he will report of the consumer strategy group within the make a statement on the matter. [7291/05] past 24 hours. I have not yet had an opportunity Minister of State at the Department of to read the report or to consider its findings in Enterprise, Trade and Employment (Mr. detail. Neither do I propose to comment on the Killeen): The labour inspectorate of my Depart- content of the report until such time as I have ment is currently involved in a number of inspec- had an opportunity to discuss the matter with my tions relating to employment in the construction colleagues in Government. I expect to publish the industry. Until these inquiries are completed, I report in the coming weeks. am not in a position to say that any worker in the In so far as the group’s recommendations on industry is being paid by means of off-shore the Groceries Order are concerned, it would be companies. my intention, once the report has been published, to consult with all interested parties before mak- Work Permits. ing any decision as to how to proceed in the 164. Mr. O’Dowd asked the Minister for matter. 1555 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1556

Industrial Development. accumulate stamps should be entitled to a State pension in accordance with the unequivocal 166. Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for intent of Article 42.2.1 of the Constitution; the Enterprise, Trade and Employment if the IDA plans he has to ensure that the hundreds of eld- reached its target of locating 50% of all new erly Irish mothers who now find themselves with- greenfield sites in the BMW region in 2004, in out pension or individual means or property are view of the fact that it failed to reach its target of to be given a fair pension. [7143/05] locating 50% of all new greenfield sites in the BMW region in 2003; if not, the measures the Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. IDA intends to take to remedy this situation; and Brennan): Existing provision for pensions include if he will make a statement on the matter. pensions under the social insurance system which [7280/05] require a certain level of social insurance contributions and pensions under social assistance Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employ- which depend on satisfying a means test. ment (Mr. Martin): IDA Ireland is the agency with statutory responsibility for the attraction of A number of measures have been introduced foreign direct investment to Ireland, including its in recent years which make it easier for people to regions and areas. IDA Ireland is committed to qualify for pensions. These include extended regional development as a core part of its strategy social insurance coverage and an easing of the and has set itself a high level performance target qualifying conditions for old age contributory and for the Objective One, Border-Midlands and retirement pensions. The latter measures are of West, BMW, area. This commits IDA Ireland to particular benefit to women who may have less try to achieve a target of 50% of all new green- than complete social insurance records due to field jobs to be located in the Objective One area working in the home. in the period 2000-06. In 1997 the yearly average number of contri- The underlying process of creating new green- butions required for pension purposes was field jobs in the Objective One area is initiated reduced from 20 to ten and in 2000, a special half with first time site visits by overseas investors to rate pension was introduced based on pre-1953 the Objective One area. Commencing in 2000, it insurance contributions. Pro-rata pensions are has been IDA Ireland’s objective to direct 50% also available to allow people with mixed rate of all first time site visits to the Objective One insurance records to receive a payment. area. Following on from this, the expectation is The Government is also committed to increas- that 50% of all new greenfield jobs created will ing the payment for qualified adults, aged 66 or be achieved in the Objective One area. Typically, over, to the same level as the personal rate of the new jobs on the ground come on stream within old age non-contributory pension and a number three to five years of approval. of special increases have been given over several In this regard, substantial progress has been budgets in pursuit of this target. In addition, since achieved to date. In 1999, prior to the start of the October 2002, new pension claimants can opt to current NDP, about 25% of all new greenfield have the part of the payment in respect of their jobs were locating in the Objective One area, spouse or partner paid direct to that person. whereas in 2004 some 41% of all new greenfield The homemaker’s scheme was introduced in jobs were located in the BMW region. 1994 to protect the pension entitlements of those Despite difficult conditions on the global econ- who take time out of the paid workforce for car- omic front in recent years and relatively slow pro- ing duties. The scheme allows up to 20 years to gress with the roll-out of infrastructure in the be disregarded when a person’s insurance record Objective One, BMW area, strong progress is being averaged to assess entitlement for con- towards the 50% target is being made and, as the tributory pension purposes. The scheme will not above figures show, the share of new greenfield of itself qualify a person for a pension as the standard qualifying conditions relating to the type projects going to the Objective One area is sub- and number of contributions paid or credited stantially higher than was the case prior to the must also be satisfied. current NDP. The scheme is being reviewed as part of the While IDA Ireland continues to make every second phase review of the qualifying conditions effort to maximise the proportion of new green- for the old age contributory and retirement pen- field investment locating in the Objective One, sions. The review is due for completion in the BMW area through, inter alia, offering higher next few months and developments in regard to grant assistance it must be remembered that, in the homemaker’s scheme will be considered in the final analysis, it is the investor who decides the light of the conclusions of the review. where to locate. The old age non-contributory pension is a social assistance scheme designed to provide fin- Pension Provisions. ancial support for all older people, whatever their 167. Mr. Sargent asked the Minister for Social circumstances, who do not qualify for one of the and Family Affairs his views on whether Irish citi- contributory pension schemes. In common with zens without individual means, property or pen- other social assistance schemes, it features a sion but who are now elderly having been home- means test which is intended to ensure that avail- makers in the 1950s and not in a position to able resources are targeted at those who are most 1557 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1558 in need. In this regard, budget 2005 provides for response. The national action plan to combat the disregard of the first \20,000 of savings or poverty and social exclusion details these policies other assessable assets such as shares or bonds across a number of Government Departments. A when means are being assessed. The operation of wide range of data is required in effectively moni- the means test is kept under review and changes toring, evaluating and further developing such are made as required. policies. It is for that reason that my Department and the Department of Health and Children, Anti-Poverty Strategy. through the National Children’s Office, are 168. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for jointly funding a national longitudinal study on Social and Family Affairs the position on children. The study will be the most significant of methods to deal with child poverty in our its kind to be undertaken here, particularly in society. [7230/05] terms of the cost, scope and length of study period. It is anticipated that 10,000 children from Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. birth and 8,000 children aged nine will be Brennan): Tackling child poverty continues to be recruited to participate in the study. one of the key priorities of this Government. It is The aim of the study is to examine the factors also one of the special initiatives under the part- which contribute to, or undermine, the well being nership agreement Sustaining Progress. The of children in contemporary Irish families. The Government recognises the importance of sup- findings will make a major contribution to the set- porting and protecting families and children and ting of effective and responsive policies relating is fully committed to achieving the NAPS target to children and to the design of services for chil- of eliminating consistent poverty amongst dren and their families. I expect that, following children. the completion of the tendering process, this The most significant measure to tackle child study will commence in mid 2005. poverty by my Department has been the substantial increases in child benefit payments. Between Social Welfare Appeals. 1997 and April 2005, when the budget increases will take effect, the rate of child benefit will have 169. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and risen from \38.09 per month for the first two chil- Family Affairs the result of an appeal on unem- dren and \49.52 for each child thereafter to ployment benefit for a person (details supplied) \141.60 per month for each of the first two chil- in County Mayo. [7231/05] dren and to \177.30 per month for the third and Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. each subsequent child. Brennan): The person concerned applied for The family income supplement provides cash unemployment benefit on 6 October 2004. Her support by way of weekly payments to families, claim was disallowed by the deciding officer on including lone parent families, at work on low the grounds that she was not genuinely seeking pay. Improvements to the scheme, including the employment. The person appealed against this assessment of entitlements on the basis of net decision to the social welfare appeals office, rather than gross income and the progressive which was received on 29 November 2004, and an increases in the income limits, have made it easier appeals officer is of the opinion that an oral hear- for lower income households to qualify under ing is required. She will be advised of the date the scheme. and venue for the hearing when the necessary In order to address the situation of those chil- arrangements have been made. dren most at risk of poverty, I am giving serious Under social welfare legislation, decisions in consideration to the introduction of a second tier regard to claims must be made by deciding of supports, in addition to the child benefit and officers and appeals officers. These officers are other support entitlements, aimed specifically at statutorily appointed and I have no role in regard families in greatest need. Linked to this partic- to making such decisions. ularly are the vulnerable circumstances of many lone parents, who are mostly women. The exist- Social Welfare Benefits. ing support systems will be scrutinised over the coming months and changes considered to better 170. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Social and reflect the needs of this group. My Department Family Affairs the date a person (details is participating in an interdepartmental working supplied) in County Mayo terminated employ- group on early child care and education, chaired ment; and the date this person applied for unem- by the National Children’s Office. The work of ployment assistance. [7232/05] this committee is at an advanced stage and the Minister for Social and Family Affairs (Mr. outcome will make an important contribution to Brennan): The person concerned ceased employ- finding the right mix of services and income sup- ment on Saturday 22 January 2005 and applied port to facilitate employment take up and care for unemployment assistance on Monday 24 for children. My Department is also involved in January 2005. efforts to develop a strategy to eliminate obsta- cles to employment for lone parents. Aircraft Safety. The causes of poverty among children and its effects are multi-faceted requiring a multi-policy 171. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- 1559 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1560

[Ms Shortall.] waste and mixed waste; the percentage of weight port the regulations and standards which apply to in each category which is recycled; and if he will aircraft cabin air quality in respect of the preven- report on any contract that his Department has tion of communicable diseases; the way in which for the disposal, reduction or re-use of waste. such standards are monitored and enforced; and [7225/05] if he will make a statement on the matter. [7207/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): I am informed that the 173. Ms Shortall asked the Minister for Trans- total weight of waste, for which figures are avail- port the regulations and standards which apply to able, that my Department produced in the past aircraft air quality; the way in which such stan- year was 42,737 kilograms. dards are monitored and enforced; and if he will The breakdown is as follows: toner cartridge — make a statement on the matter. [7206/05] 18 kgs; recycled cardboard — 2088 kgs; metallic packing — 5 kgs; cables — 10 kgs; electrical scrap Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I propose — 86 kgs; PC base unit — 343 kgs; PC keyboard to take Questions Nos. 171 and 173 together. and mouse — 23 kgs; PC monitor — 530 kgs; Air quality standards on board aircraft are part photocopier, small — 80 kgs; printer — 290 kgs; of the design specifications set by the European projector — 73 kgs; recycled paper — 39,018 kgs; Aviation Safety Agency, EASA. Aircraft main- wood — 29 kgs; metal chair — 50 kgs and general tenance is regulated in Ireland by the Irish Avi- waste — 94 kgs. My Department currently has a ation Authority, IAA. waste recycling and destruction contract with Fin- gal Recycling. According to this company, all the Air Services. above material has been recycled apart from the 172. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for general waste at 94 kgs. Transport if his attention has been drawn to the fact that in reaching a decision in the funding Social Welfare Benefits. requirements of Aer Lingus there are interests 175. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for Com- other than those of ICTU to consider; when he munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the reason a expects the process of consultation with them to person (details supplied) in County Mayo is not be completed in order that a decisions in the in receipt of fuel allowance. [7229/05] interests of all taxpayers can be made. [7179/05] Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Minister for Transport (Mr. Cullen): I am well Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): Prior to the commence- aware that any decisions on the future of Aer ment of all participants on the rural social scheme Lingus must take account of the impact of that details of a person’s social welfare entitlement, decision not only on the company and its including possible entitlement to the fuel allow- employees but also on the overall Irish economy, ance, are sought from the Department of Social air travel customers, the airline trade and Irish and Family Affairs by the relevant implementing tourism. Key strategic concerns were covered in body. In this case, Meitheal Forbartha na Gael- the recent Goldman Sachs Report. tachta Teoranta, Achill, County Mayo, sought the The consultations with ICTU are progressing details of the person concerned from the Depart- and will conclude in the near future. I will then ment of Social and Family Affairs. The docu- make a submission to Government which will mentation completed by the Department of take account of all the key issues. Social and Family Affairs, which has responsi- My engagement with the unions as a key stake- bility for the fuel allowance scheme, does not holder is central to the process. It is a critical indicate that the person concerned is entitled to component of partnership, which in my view has payment of the fuel allowance. been a major contributor to the success of the economy. Moreover, I have found my engage- Voluntary Activity. ment with ICTU to be very valuable and it will help the Government in its efforts to position our 176. Mr. O’Shea asked the Minister for Com- national airline for growth in the years ahead. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the funding he proposes to make available urgently to Volun- Question No. 173 answered with Question teering Ireland (details supplied); and if he will No. 171. make a statement on the matter. [7288/05] Minister of State at the Department of Com- Waste Management. munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs (Mr. N. 174. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Com- Ahern): Funding of \106,139 under the White munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the total Paper on supporting voluntary activity was pro- weight of waste that his Department produced vided to Volunteering Ireland in 2004 and the within its offices in the past year for which figures operating grant for 2005 will be increased by are available; the breakdown of the weight pro- 5%, giving a total of \111,446. Volunteering duced from paper, glass, aluminium and steel Ireland will also receive funding under the White cans, textiles, plastics, organic waste, electrical Paper training and supports scheme in 2005, total- and electronic equipment, batteries, hazardous ling \35,000. 1561 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1562

Later today, I hope to announce a number of now operates in areas in the 18 counties indicated measures designed, inter alia, to deepen and at the outset. strengthen our volunteering infrastructure. An I am sending the Deputy maps of the CLA´ R element of these measures will be the provision areas with lists of the DEDs included. of funding to a number of other volunteer bureaux in addition to the continuation of the Question No. 178 answered with Question existing level of funding to Volunteering Ireland. No. 137.

Community Development. Modulated Funds. 177. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for Com- 179. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- munity, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs the areas culture and Food her plans for the modulation which are in the CLA´ R programme; the criteria fund; and if she will make a statement on the used to define an area; and if he will make a state- matter. [7057/05] ment on the matter. [7290/05] Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Coughlan): The modulated funds become avail- Affairs (E´ amon O´ Cuı´v): The areas included in able for use in 2006. I will decide on their use and the CLA´ R programme are parts of counties seek the necessary EU approval in the coming Cavan, Clare, Cork, Donegal, Galway, Kerry, months. Currently, my Department is finalising Limerick, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Meath, its examination of the relevant options. As part Monaghan, Roscommon, Sligo, Tipperary, of that examination, there has been a widespread Waterford, Westmeath and all of County Leitrim. public consultation and discussions with The 16 areas originally selected for inclusion in stakeholders. the CLA´ R programme were those which suffered The use of modulated funds in 2006 is limited the greatest population decline from 1926 to 1996, to certain measures. The eligible measures are with the exception of the Cooley Peninsula which those in the Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, was included based on the serious difficulties rural development plan — agri-environment, caused there by foot and mouth disease. The early retirement, compensatory allowances and population loss in the areas ranged from 42% to forestry — and the new initiatives introduced as 60% with an average population loss in the 16 part of the CAP mid-term review — food quality, areas of 50%. The aggregate population in each animal welfare, farm advisory services and meet- area was over 4,000. ing standards. My decision on the use of the funds will, of course, have to be informed by the terms The methodology used in deciding the areas to and conditions of those measures. be included was identification of the district electoral divisions, DEDs, which lost the most popu- Departmental Agencies. lation in that period. However, so that the areas had some meaningful correlation with identifiable 180. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- communities, the natural geographic features culture and Food her plans to develop the such as major lakes or the sea and other bound- Teagasc service provided to farmers. [7058/05] aries as well as DED boundaries were used. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Given the nature of the exercise, in some cases Coughlan): Teagasc, the Agriculture and Food the selected areas straddled two or more counties. Development Authority, was established under Arising from the commitment in An Agreed the Agriculture (Research, Training and Advice) Programme for Government, following an analy- Act 1988. Its function under the Act is to provide ´ sis of the 2002 population census data, the CLAR research, training and advisory services for the areas were reviewed and extended. The exercise agri-food sector. Teagasc is governed by an 11 involved identifying and including any DEDs member authority. The chairman and five ordi- with a more than 50% population decline con- nary members are appointed by the Minister and ´ tiguous to existing CLAR areas. In the case of the remaining five members are appointed by the Donegal, contiguity was taken to include conti- Minister following nominations from designated guity across narrow inlets due to the extreme organisations — IFA, ICMSA, ICOS, Macra na remoteness of the area and the unusual Feirme and Teagasc unions. geography. Teagasc has 1,360 permanent staff, comprising In addition, the data were examined to estab- advisers, teachers and research scientists with lish if there were any other areas of the country appropriate supporting services. These are com- where the appropriate population decline had plemented by some 250 contract staff, as well as occurred and matched the criterion of an aggre- teaching staff in the private agricultural and horti- gate population of over 4,000. The only county or cultural colleges. Teagasc staff carry out their part of a county non-contiguous to existing functions from more than 90 locations. CLA´ R areas that had significant pockets of popu- Teagasc’s operating budget for 2005 amounts lation decline was Waterford. A decision was to over \155 million. Advisory services make up taken to include three pockets in Waterford with the biggest budget item, 35% of expenditure, fol- a total population of 5,100 and an average popu- lowed by production research, 32%, training lation decline of 47%. As a result, the programme programmes, 19%, and food research, 13%. My 1563 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1564

[Mary Coughlan.] named was informed that, while the ten animals Department’s provision to Teagasc for capital would not be paid premium, no further penalty and non-capital purposes in 2005 amounts to \123 would apply. They must, however, be counted for million. The amount for non-capital purposes is stocking density purposes. The person has been \118.5 million and for capital development pur- advised of the right of appeal to the agricultural poses the allocation is \4.5 million. By any stan- appeals office; to date, no such appeal has been dards these are substantial resources and are a lodged with that office. clear indication of the Government’s continuing commitment to supporting Teagasc activities. Farm Retirement Scheme. It is the responsibility of the Teagasc authority 182. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- to prioritise activities and to allocate its funding culture and Food the number of applications for accordingly. It has done this over the years in farm retirement pensions currently on hand; the accordance with the needs of clients, EU and number approved or rejected in the past 12 Government policy and industry needs. I am months; and if she will make a statement on the satisfied that in doing so it has provided a first matter. [7236/05] class service to Irish farmers. In the short term Teagasc will have to recon- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary figure its programmes in response to the funda- Coughlan): A total of 2,597 applications have mental changes in agriculture arising out of the been received under the current early retirement single payment. The authority is, however, scheme since its introduction in November 2000. already well accustomed to tailoring its prog- Of these, 105 are currently being processed. In rammes to meet the changing requirements of the the 12-month period from 1 March 2004 to 28 agri food sector. Its annual programme of activi- February 2005, a total of 213 applications were ties is developed in consultation with the key approved and nine rejected. stakeholders in the sector, many of whom are represented on the authority. Recently, it has Pet Food Imports. undertaken more strategic planning initiatives — the Teagasc 2000 review and the three year 183. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- strategy required under the strategic management culture and Food the volume of pet foods now initiative. A new review of its training and edu- imported into the country; if she has satisfied her- cation programmes has recently got under way. self that European traceability and husbandry I am satisfied that Teagasc is well placed to requirements have been applied in all cases; and face the future and to continue to provide the if she will make a statement on the matter. innovation and technology transfer for the sus- [7237/05] tainable development of agriculture, the food Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary industry and rural communities in the years Coughlan): Under Community rules the import- ahead. ation of animal products which have already been incorporated within pet foods and which are des- Grant Payments. tined for meat eating animals is provided for sub- 181. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Agri- ject to certain conditions. Data supplied by the culture and Food the reason a person (details Central Statistics Office indicate that the total supplied) in County Wexford was refused pay- quantity of pet food imported into this country ment for special beef premium even though during 2003 was 42,753 tonnes and for 2004 a appropriate evidence was available; and if she will total of 31,120 tonnes has been imported for the make a statement on the matter. [7103/05] period up to October. Importers of pet foods are required to register Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary with my Department and give at least 24 hours Coughlan): The person named submitted two notice of intention to import. In the case of pet applications under the 2004 EU special beef pre- food originating from an EU source it must come mium scheme, one dated 8 March 2004, in respect from an approved establishment and be of 16 animals and one dated 6 December 2004, in accompanied to its destination with a commercial respect of ten animals. Following computer vali- document or a health certificate signed by an dation it was found that ten of the 16 animals official veterinarian of the competent authority of applied for on 8 March 2004 were not recorded the member state of origin. In the case of import- on the CMMS database as being in the herd of ation from third countries it can only be imported the person named on the date of application. By under licence. In such cases it must originate in a letter dated 24 September 2004 the person named country approved by the EU for trade in such was advised that as the ten animals in question products, have been produced in an approved were non-CMMS compliant on the date of appli- establishment and be accompanied by a health cation for premium, no payment would be made certificate in accordance the provisions of Com- on those animals and a penalty would be applied, munity legislation. in accordance with the terms and conditions. The person named subsequently appealed this World Trade Negotiations. decision and, by letter dated 7 February, following consideration of the appeal, the person 184. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- 1565 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1566 culture and Food the progress and impact on the 2001 saw the introduction by the EU of a total agri-sector of the WTO; and if she will make a ban on the use of certain processed animal pro- statement on the matter. [7238/05] teins, which includes mammalian meat and bonemeal, in the diets of farmed animals because of it Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary being a probable cause of BSE. Ireland, in imple- Coughlan): Significant progress was made menting this total ban and in recognition of the towards a new WTO trade round with the frame- importance of the export trade, increased its level work agreement which was concluded in Geneva of sampling for processed animal proteins from in August 2004. The main elements of the frame- 810 samples in 2000 to almost 3,500 in 2003 with work agreement can be summarised as follows: that level maintained for 2004. This includes the domestic support — a substantial reduction in the sampling of all imported bulk consignments of levels of trade-distorting domestic support, a ceil- feed materials, along with extensive sampling of ing on each WTO member’s expenditure on compound feedstuffs and on farm sampling. direct payments to farmers under production- Because of the importance attached to BSE, limiting programmes — blue box — and a review Ireland carries out significantly more testing and of payments or subsidies which have no or mini- analysis of animal feed for the presence of pro- mal trade-distorting effect — green box; market cessed animal proteins than the minimum indi- access — a substantial improvement in market cated by the EU in their annual co-ordinated con- access for all products through tariff reductions; trol programme. higher tariffs will be subject to higher cuts, and While I cannot guarantee that traces of bone WTO members may self-select a number of sensi- will not be detected in animal feed in the future, tive products for special treatment but all prod- I am satisfied that, first, the controls operated by ucts will be subject to substantial improvements my Department are adequate to ensure that any in market access through a combination of tariff contamination is detected at the earliest possible cuts and tariff quota commitments; export subsid- stage in the feed chain and, second, the feed ies — the phasing out in annual instalments by industry and the farming community take every an end date to be agreed of all forms of export possible precaution to ensure that mammalian subsidies, including export refunds, export cred- meat and bone meal does not enter the feed its, with limited exceptions, the trade-distorting chain. This diligence is evidenced by the fact that practices of state trading enterprises and food aid of the 7,000 or so samples of feed material not in conformity with disciplines to be intro- analysed by my Department over the last two duced; special and differential treatment or more years, mammalian bone fragments have been favourable terms and conditions for developing detected in only four consignments. countries will be an integral part of all elements of the new round. Purchase for Destruction Scheme. The framework agreement protects the benefits to the Irish agri-food sector of the recent 186. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- reforms of the Common Agricultural Policy and culture and Food the number of cows and dry represents a satisfactory outcome for Ireland. The stock at present; the extent to which these full details of the implementation of the frame- numbers were affected by the beef destruct work agreement are the subject of on-going nego- scheme; and if she will make a statement on the tiations in Geneva, leading to a WTO ministerial matter. [7240/05] conference in Hong Kong in December 2005. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Coughlan): The information requested by the Animal Feedstuffs. Deputy is set out in tabular form below. The purchase for destruction scheme, PFD, ran from 185. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- January to June 2001 and removed 278,000 ani- culture and Food if she is satisfied that use of mals of which 87,217 or 31% were cows. The PFD bonemeal in animal feeds has ended completely; was followed closely by the special purchase and if she will make a statement on the scheme, SPS, which ran from June 2001 to March matter. [7239/05] 2002. A total of 215,650 cows were slaughtered in Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Ireland under the SPS, representing 92% of the Coughlan): As the Deputy will recall, January animals removed under this scheme.

Year National Cattle Cow Dry Stock PFD Scheme Cows SPS Scheme Cows Cows slaughtered Herd Herd National Herd slaughtered slaughtered Annually

2001 6.408 m 2.308 m 4.10 m 87,217 195,650 366,000 2002 6.332 m 2.279 m 4.05 m — 20,000 322,000 2003 6.223 m 2.279 m 3.94 m — — 335,000

The number of cows slaughtered during the years has been no adverse effect on the composition of of operation of these two schemes is in line with the national herd. the overall level of cow slaughterings for previous and subsequent years, demonstrating that there Beef Industry. 187. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- 1567 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1568

[Mr. Durkan.] tern. I am satisfied that the efforts of the industry culture and Food if Irish beef producers and pro- together with the promotional work of An Bord cessors can compete to supply all of the major Bia to consolidate and expand market share will chain-stores; and if she will make a statement on ensure the continued presence of Irish lamb in the matter. [7241/05] these important markets. Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary Pigmeat Sector. Coughlan): Last year Ireland produced 560,000 tonnes of beef, the highest level of output since 189. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- 2001. Some 88% or 493,000 tonnes was exported culture and Food if Irish bacon producers and and the balance was consumed on the domestic processors can compete to supply all of the major market. The UK is the main export market for chain-stores; and if she will make a statement on Irish beef and absorbed 264,000 tonnes in 2004. the matter. [7243/05] An additional 174,000 tonnes was exported to Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary continental EU markets. The EU now comprises Coughlan): Last year, some 204,000 tonnes of pig- 90% of our total exports compared with 49% in meat was produced in Ireland. Over 40% of this 2000. was consumed on the domestic market and sold In recent years, the focus of the Irish beef primarily through the multiple retailers. Some industry has been to broaden and expand its 114,000 tonnes of pigmeat was exported in 2004 market reach at EU retail level, shifting its orien- and over half serviced the UK market where a tation away from international commodity substantial proportion was sold through the mul- markets and into the higher priced internal EU tiple retailers. marketplace. Effective promotion and marketing Irish pigmeat commercial sales are competitive of beef by Bord Bia and the industry has ensured both at home and on the export market in a presence for top quality Irish beef in all the key branded product and in the own-brand segment. European markets. This includes supply arrange- In the branded segment these attract a valuable ments with multiples and the main retailers in the premium at the retail stage and help secure the UK, France, Italy, Spain and the Netherlands. presence of Irish product in major retail outlets. The overall approach in the marketing of Irish The own-brand segment of the market is more beef is to continually build on its reputation as a competitive but nonetheless Irish pigmeat is per- high quality and safety assured product based on forming satisfactorily in that market also. a natural, extensive and well controlled cattle production sector at farm level. A strong interest Food Industry. in Irish beef has been generated by building it’s reputation through the media, by chef’s endorse- 190. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- ments and the creation of demand from premium culture and Food if she is satisfied that Irish food chefs and restaurants in each of these markets. producers are allowed compete for contracts sup- The main goal of our marketing strategy is to plying all the major chain-stores; and if she will increase retail market penetration and to invest make a statement on the matter. [7244/05] in growing Irish beef awareness. This is being Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary achieved by building relationships with key Coughlan): The route to the food market for the customers, product promotions and image build- Irish food industry is determined by its ability to ing of the brand. compete in the marketplace and respond to consumer demand for quality, taste, nutrition and Sheepmeat Sector. increasingly speciality products. Investment in 188. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- marketing and market intelligence is crucial to culture and Food if Irish lamb producers and pro- success and on the supply side, world-class man- cessors can compete to supply all of the major agement and skills at production, processing and chain-stores; and if she will make a statement on distribution stages is essential. While retailer con- the matter. [7242/05] centration and central distribution are challeng- ing for suppliers, globalisation of retailing has Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary provided market-entry opportunities in the Coughlan): Some 72,000 tonnes of sheepmeat was enlarged EU for Irish companies in a range of produced in Ireland last year, of which 51,500 products including meat, dairy and beverage sec- tonnes was exported and the remainder con- tors. As regards being allowed to compete for sumed on the domestic market. Ireland has an contracts supplying the major chain stores, the export surplus of sheepmeat which is sold primar- Competition Authority has statutory responsi- ily to France and the UK where it competes with bility in relation to any possible lack of access or high quality third country imports. These are unequal opportunity on the domestic market. highly sophisticated and discerning markets, and My strategy and that of the State agencies is to Irish lamb has commanded resilient market pen- underpin the ongoing success of the food sector etration and maintained a consistent supply pat- by facilitating the industry to maintain competi- 1569 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1570 tiveness and capacity to meet the demands of the pliance is established, they are returned to the market in terms of quality, convenience, price exporting country or destroyed. and product specification. The national develop- Safeguard measures to ensure the protection of ment plan contains an indicative public funding human and animal health in the EU are intro- allocation of \358 million for the food industry by duced by the Commission as circumstances a series of measures covering capital investment, require. In this regard there are currently EU and research, technology and innovation, marketing national measures in place banning the import- and promotion and human resources and some ation of all live birds and fresh poultry meat from \187 million has already been awarded under the south east Asia because of the avian influenza sit- various measures. Innovation and new product uation in that region. development are essential if food companies are My Department last year introduced legislation to maintain competitiveness and market share requiring country of origin labelling of poultry- and the national development plan funding in meat imported from non-EU countries. The place is geared to assist the industry to produce name of the country of origin must appear on what the consumer and the marketplace packaging or, in the case of poultrymeat dis- demands. played loose, on a nearby notice. In addition, details of the grade-class of the poultry, price per Poultry Industry. kg, whether fresh or frozen and the registered 191. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Agri- number of the slaughterhouse or cutting plant culture and Food if adequate traceability checks where the product was last handled must also be are applied in relation to poultry imports with provided. particular reference to the need for health protec- On a general level, I believe consumers should tion; and if she will make a statement on the be given maximum information on the origin of matter. [7245/05] the food they are purchasing. I have this week along with other member states urged the Com- Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary mission to examine EU labelling provisions to Coughlan): Under harmonised EU legislation, a facilitate this, and in doing so, indicated the part- series of health and safety requirements are icular need for attention to be paid to the origin applied in the member states to ensure that ani- of poultry imports into the EU. mal products are produced to standards that guarantee the safety of food and the protection of Departmental Staff. human and animal health. Poultrymeat imported from third countries must meet standards at least 192. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for Agri- equivalent to those required for production in the culture and Food her plans to recruit agricultural EU. It must come from countries that have been liaison officers; if resources have been made approved for export to the EU and which have available for same; the proposed cost; when these veterinary controls equivalent to those applicable positions will be advertised; the role expected of in the EU, particularly in terms of legislation, these persons; and if she will make a statement hygiene conditions, animal health status, veterin- on the matter. [7249/05] ary medicines controls, residues programmes, Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary zoonoses controls and other food law. Coughlan): The implementation of the nitrates The meat must be sourced from establishments directive is a matter in the first instance for the that have standards equivalent to the require- Minister for the Environment, Heritage and ments for EU export establishments and that Local Government, who will give effect to the have effective control systems and are supervised national action programme under the directive by by the competent authorities. Meat imported way of regulations. The provisions of the nitrates from other EU countries is produced to the same directive are among the statutory management standards as in Ireland and in accordance with requirements to be respected by farmers under veterinary legislation designed to ensure its the single payment scheme. My Department will safety. inspect farmers for compliance as part of its con- A health certificate conforming to the models trols under the single payment scheme. I have no set down in EU legislation must accompany poul- plans to appoint additional staff in this area. I trymeat being imported from third countries. All would point to the advisory work of Teagasc as consignments must first be landed at an approved being relevant in this context. border inspection post and undergo documentary, identity and physical checks. Once it has Milk Quota. been established that the meat has met all the required conditions it is released for free circu- 193. Mr. P. McGrath asked the Minister for lation within the Community. Imports failing to Agriculture and Food if she will review the file of comply with these veterinary control checks may a person (details supplied); and if she will review be detained for further examination. If non-com- the resultant penalties imposed. [7272/05] 1571 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1572

Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary — 100 hectares for cowpark-turbary trusts. The Coughlan): Allocations of milk quota from the average size for cowpark-turbary trusts would national reserve are granted on the basis of generally be around 13 hectares. recommendations from the milk quota appeals tribunal. The tribunal is a body established to County Number consider and advise on applications for additional quota from individual producers who have suf- Carlow 8 fered severe hardship in the context of the milk Cavan 3 quota system. The tribunal also considers appli- Clare 6 cations from producers whose herds have been Cork 8 restricted by animal disease, TB or brucellosis, Donegal 2 during the quota year. Dublin 4 The person named submitted an application on Galway 29 the grounds of animal disease in the 2003-04 year. Kerry 10 The tribunal examined his application last March Kildare 16 and recommended a temporary allocation of Kilkenny 7 additional quota for the 2003-04 quota year. The Laois 17 allocations made are intended to mitigate to the Leitrim 2 greatest degree possible the impact of the levy Limerick 10 where a producer is over quota due to restrictions Longford 13 imposed on selling surplus stock. However, it is Louth 5 not always possible to eliminate entirely a restric- Mayo 18 ted supplier’s levy liability and in this regard the Meath 43 tribunal must take account of a producer’s supply Monaghan 2 pattern prior to the imposition of the restriction. Offaly 29 It is not possible at this stage to reduce the Roscommon 23 super levy bill for any producer for the 2003-04 Sligo 6 milk quota year. However, if the person’s herd Tipperary 14 was restricted in the current quota year he was Waterford — entitled to apply again under the 2004-05 animal disease scheme. My Department has not received Wicklow 9 an application in the current year and accordingly Westmeath 24 the named person should make an application Wexford 9 immediately to the tribunal if his herd has been Total 317 restricted this quota year and he considers he will exceed his quota for the year. Grant Payments. Land Commission. 195. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for Agri- 194. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for culture and Food the total value and number of Agriculture and Food the local trusts established uncashed cheques issued by her Department in by the Land Commission, on a county basis; the each of the past five years; the elements which size of holdings involved; and if she will make a are EU and State funds in each respective year; statement on the matter. [7273/05] the purposes for which these funds are utilised; and if she will make a statement on the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary matter. [7274/05] Coughlan): The number of trusts set up by the Minister for Agriculture and Food (Mary former Land Commission-Congested Districts Coughlan): The details of cheques that were Board and currently recorded by my Department uncashed, that is, out of date and not re-issued, on a county basis is set out in the following list. as at 31 December 2004 for the calendar years In the case of sportsfield trusts they vary in size 2002, 2003 and 2004 are set out in the following from two hectares, up to — in a few cases only table:

Year Issued No. Uncashed Value of cheques 100% Value of cheques Total Value Cheques funded by the EU nationally funded or EU co-financed

\\\

2002 6,728 495,220 390,078 885,298 2003 3,321 654,443 198,899 853,342 2004 4,809 1,272,506 461,523 1,734,029

Total 14,858 2,422,169 1,050,500 3,472,669 1573 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1574

As this information is drawn from the Depart- Garda Strength. ment’s new accounts system, which was installed 198. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for in July 2001, the same data are not available for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of 2000 and 2001. The funds remain on account until Garda patrol cars attached to Clontarf, Coolock, such time as a cheque is re-issued on request. Santry and Raheny stations; the number of gardaı´ in these stations; if there will be increases in 2005; Human Rights Issues. and if he will make a statement on the matter. 196. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Justice, [7258/05] Equality and Law Reform if consideration has been given to the suggestion that the Irish Human Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform Rights Commission should report directly to Da´il (Mr. McDowell): I am informed by the Garda E´ ireann rather than to the Department of Justice, authorities, who are responsible for the detailed Equality and Law Reform as applies currently; allocation of resources, including personnel, that and if he will make a statement on the matter. the number of Garda vehicles — all types — [7142/05] attached to the Clontarf, Coolock, Santry and Raheny stations is as set out in the following Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform table: (Mr. McDowell): This matter received detailed consideration, first, during the policy formulation Station Vehicles stage of the proposals leading to the Human Rights Commission Act 2000; second, at my Clontarf 7 meeting with the commission in April, 2004; and Coolock 8 third, in the context of my responses, as approved Santry 38 by the Government on 6 July 2004, to the various Raheny 5 recommendations put forward by the commission in its report on effectiveness prepared in accord- Total 58 ance with the provisions of section 24 of that Act. Those recommendations are reproduced in appendix 9 of the commission’s annual report for I am further informed that the personnel strength 2003, which has been published and laid before of the Clontarf, Coolock, Santry and Raheny both Houses of the Oireachtas on 20 October Garda stations — all ranks — as at 1 March 2005 2004. The formal responses on this issue, as well was as set out in the following table: as those relating to the other points raised by the commission, were also laid before both Houses Station Strength on the same day. The commission’s recommendation is that con- Clontarf 66 sideration should be given by the Government to Coolock 85 linking the commission more closely to the Santry 106 Oireachtas in accountability for the exercise of its Raheny 66 functions. The independence given to the commission under the legislation is underpinned by An additional four gardaı´ are due to be allocated its wide mandate, remit and powers. It is not easy to Santry Garda station and an additional three to see how aligning it with, say, a committee of gardaı´ are due to be allocated to Coolock Garda the Oireachtas, would increase that independence station on 1 April 2005, in conjunction with the or effectiveness. However, I indicated to the com- allocation of a newly attested group of pro- mission at the meeting I have referred to, that it bationer gardaı´. was free to explore the issue further with a view With regard to Garda resources generally, I am to developing concrete proposals for my con- pleased the Government has approved my pro- sideration. The commission has been examining posal to increase the strength of the Garda to the matter and I await its definitive suggestions. 14,000 members on a phased basis, in line with the Agreed Programme for Government commit- Deportation Orders. ment in this regard. This is a key commitment in 197. Dr. Cowley asked the Minister for Justice, the programme for Government, and its imple- Equality and Law Reform if the deportation mentation will significantly strengthen the oper- order regarding a person (details supplied) in ational capacity of the force. County Mayo will be cancelled due to a change The commissioner will now be drawing up in the family circumstances; and if he will make a plans on how best to distribute and manage these statement on the matter. [7257/05] additional resources. In this context, the needs of Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the Garda stations at Clontarf, Coolock, Santry (Mr. McDowell): There is no deportation order and Raheny will be fully considered within the in regard to the person in question, nor has a context of the needs of Garda stations throughout notification issued to the person of a proposal to the country. The additional resources will be tar- make a deportation order in accordance with geted at the areas of greatest need, as is envisaged section 3 of the Immigration Act 1999. in the programme for Government. The programme identifies particular areas with a signifi- 1575 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1576

[Mr. McDowell.] Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform cant drugs problem and a large number of public (Mr. McDowell): It is my responsibility as Mini- order offences but it will be possible to address ster for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, and other priorities as well such as the need to signifi- that of my Department, to maintain and enhance cantly increase the number of gardaı´ allocated to community security and equality through the traffic duties as part of the new Garda traffic development of a range of policies and high qual- corps. I have promised that the additional gardaı´ ity services which underpin, inter alia, an effective will not be put on administrative duties and they and balanced approach to crime. That balanced will be put directly into frontline, operational, approach, in addition to providing the resources high-visibility policing. They will have a real and legislative provisions, requires that I make impact. available a range of options for disposal of cases. Addressing the root causes of crime is a multi- Recidivism Rates. dimensional task, which falls within the areas of responsibility of a number of Departments. A 199. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, number of risk factors have been identified as Equality and Law Reform the figures relating to contributing factors to the causes of crime. These recidivism rates at the Do´ chas centre and for old include neighbourhood and community factors; Mountjoy; and if he will make a statement on the socioeconomic deprivation measured in part by matter. [7259/05] poor housing and consistent poverty; family back- Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform ground-parenting; and individual factors such as (Mr. McDowell): While accurate figures relating lower than average IQ or low self-esteem and to rates of recidivism in the prisoner population academic and school factors. are not yet available, the computerisation of pris- My Department supports and develops evi- oner records from 2001 will provide a more dence-based preventative measures and inter- detailed view of a prisoner is past committal his- ventions aimed at young offenders and those tory going forward. The institute of criminology most at risk of offending. One of these measures in University College Dublin, with the co-oper- is the Garda youth diversion projects. They are a ation of my Department, is undertaking a major community-based, multi-agency crime preven- research project on the issue of recidivism. It is tion, initiative which seeks to divert young per- hoped the findings will present an accurate pic- sons from becoming involved or further involved ture of recidivism which, in turn, will assist and in anti-social and/or criminal behaviour by pro- shape the way we manage prison sentences in the viding suitable activities to facilitate personal future. The findings of this research are expected development, promote civic responsibility and in early 2007. improve long-term employability prospects. By doing so, the projects also contribute to improv- Probation and Welfare Service. ing the quality of life within communities and enhancing Garda-community relations. 200. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, As the Deputy may be aware, recent years Equality and Law Reform if there are post- have seen a dramatic increase in the number of release follow up reports on inmates of the these projects, from 12 in 1997 to 64 currently, a Do´ chas centre in Mountjoy; and if he will make process made possible, in part, by funding under a statement on the matter. [7260/05] the National Development Plan 2000-2006. The Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform locations of the new projects were decided upon (Mr. McDowell): The Probation and Welfare Ser- according to local needs, prioritised by the Garda vice maintains case records and reports in respect authorities, in conjunction with my Department. \ of female offenders leaving custody at the Do´ chas Funding of 5.471 million has been allocated to Centre, who are subject to Probation and Welfare these and related projects in the current year. The Service supervision as a condition of temporary National Crime Council was established in 1999 release. Reports are provided to the Irish Prison and its key roles are to focus on crime prevention, Service and to the Department of Justice, with particular emphasis on the underlying causes Equality and Law Reform on progress, as appro- of crime and focus on raising public awareness priate, and in the event of non-compliance with of crime; examine the “fear of crime”; identify the conditions of release. Such case records and research priorities and undertake in-house reports in individual cases are not published or research. released except where provided for in legislation. With regard to reducing the numbers of people serving prison sentences, under the Criminal Court Procedures. Justice (Community Service) Act 1983, a court may make a community service order as an alter- 201. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, native to a sentence of imprisonment or detention Equality and Law Reform his views on calls for a in respect of any individual over the age of 16 major reduction of the prison population through years who has been convicted of a criminal the use of non-custodial sentences for non-violent offence and who consents to the order being crimes; and if he will make a statement on the made. The order requires an offender to perform matter. [7261/05] unpaid work for between 40 and 240 hours, usu- 1577 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1578 ally to be completed within 12 months. An Prison Education Service. offender may be rehabilitated through the dis- 203. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, cipline of having to work in the community and Equality and Law Reform the reason for discon- the making of meaningful reparation to that com- tinuing the funding for the CONNECT project in munity for his or her crime. The Probation and prisons; and if he will make a statement on the Welfare Service of my Department supervises matter. [7263/05] those offenders undergoing community service orders. Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform The making of a community service order is a (Mr. McDowell): The CONNECT project was matter entirely for the Judiciary and one in which launched in 2000 as part of the Irish Prison Ser- I have no function. However, the courts have and vice training and development programme. The do exercise wide discretion in using CSOs in deal- funding involved is provided annually by the ing with people over 16 years of age who offend. Exchequer as part of the prisons Vote. Expendi- ture since 2000 has gone mainly to funding salary It is used in practice for all age categories of and incidental costs incurred in providing offenders. Work projects are negotiated by the vocational training in the prisons and the pro- Probation and Welfare Service with a wide range vision of support to the project by the National of community and voluntary agencies, usually Training and Development Institute, or NTDI, as resulting from an approach by the agency but, well as meeting the cost of some capital works when necessary, arising from an approach to an and materials used in the manufacture of prod- agency by the Service. There are more than 70 ucts in prison workshops for the Special Olympics such projects around the country. My Depart- in 2003. The CONNECT projects at Mountjoy \ ment will provide circa 14.5 million to them in Prison, the Do´ chas Centre and the training unit current funding this year. These projects offer a were established with the support of the NTDI range of educational and training opportunities, and are now capable of independent operation. counselling and substance abuse programmes. A process of internal review during 2002 The Probation and Welfare Service is also in the prompted a refocusing of the project prior to its process of identifying where there may be room roll-out to further institutions. In particular, the for more projects servicing different needs review identified the need for new management around the country. structures to support the project’s sentence man- The Children Act 2001 introduced a wide range agement processes better in the delivering of innovative measures that will provide a statu- institutions. tory framework for the future development of the The CONNECT project is currently being juvenile justice system in accordance with mod- rolled out at Limerick Prison with renewed NTDI ern thinking and best international practice. support, and the projects at Mountjoy Prison, the Three Departments have a role in implementing Do´ chas Centre and the training unit, which have the Act; my Department and the Departments of been affected by the current industrial relations Health and Children and Education and Science. and financial restrictions, will resume operations The National Children’s Office has the responsi- if and when there is a successful outcome to the bility of overseeing the implementation of the current industrial relations process with the Act and co-ordinating regular working group Prison Officers’ Association. As the Deputy will meetings. be aware, members of that association will shortly It is an underlying concept of the Children Act be balloting on the proposal for organisational to expand the options a court will have at its dis- change recently concluded with the Irish Prison posal when deciding on how to deal with a young Service at the Labour Relations Commission fol- offender. These options are an essential feature lowing lengthy negotiations. of the Act as they will allow effect to be given to Garda Operations. the principle that detention for young offenders will be a last resort. Thus, the Act envisages com- 204. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for mittals to custody of young offenders being Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will availed of only in situations where other alterna- report on strategies and action plans of the Garda tive diversions and community-based options Sı´ocha´na to deal with anti-social behaviour in and have been resorted to and have failed. around an estate (details supplied) in Dublin 9 and to develop community policing plans in 2005 Prison Accommodation. for this area; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [7264/05] 202. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if the Do´ chas model Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform will be extended to more prisons; and if he will (Mr. McDowell): I have been informed by the make a statement on the matter. [7262/05] Garda authorities that the area concerned is actively policed by gardaı´ from Clontarf Garda Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform station and that extra gardaı´ have been allocated (Mr. McDowell): In developing designs for new to community policing. I understand that com- prison facilities it is the practice to utilise and munity policing in the area is a central feature draw on experience with existing facilities. and a core value in policing policy. The unit has 1579 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1580

[Mr. McDowell.] funding for any of these is to come to an end; the lead responsibility for policing in the area and has procedures in place for renewal of funding; and if evolved a partnership approach to problem-solv- he will make a statement on the matter. ing with the community. [7266/05] I understand that current policing plans in the area are predicated on the prevention of public Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform order offences, the prevention of crime, including (Mr. McDowell): During summer 2004 my crimes of violence against persons and property, Department published a comprehensive review of and the maintenance of an environment con- progress under the Equal Opportunities Child ducive to the improvement of the quality of life Care Programme 2000-2006 entitled Developing of local residents. Childcare In Ireland. That document was circu- I have been assured by the Garda authorities lated to all Members of the Oireachtas and was that this strategy is, and will continue to be, cen- also posted on the Department’s website. Much tral to the delivery of a policing service to the of the information the Deputy is seeking, up to area in question. the end of 2003, is included in this report. It is intended in future to update these statistics Asylum Applications. twice yearly. The first such update, which will cover the period up to end of 2004, is expected to 205. Mr. Timmins asked the Minister for become available over the summer of 2005 and Justice, Equality and Law Reform the position in will be posted on the Department’s website as relation to the case of persons (details supplied); well as being circulated to interested parties, and if this matter will be dealt with as speedily as including Members of the Oireachtas. possible. [7265/05] The overall position as regards County Cork is Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform that up to the end of February 2005 I approved (Mr. McDowell): The persons in question, along 269 grants, totalling \30.2 million, in respect of with their then seven year old daughter, arrived capital, staffing and quality improvement projects in the State in February 1999 and made asylum across the county. It is anticipated that this fund- applications. They had an Irish-born child in ing will lead to the creation of over 3,400 new December 1999, withdrew their asylum appli- child care places and will support a further 3,100 cations and applied for permission to remain on existing places. This funding includes: over 60 the basis of their parentage of that child. Per- capital grants for community-based or not-for- mission to reside in the State was granted solely profit groups which were approved funding of on that basis. \13.4 million; over 80 community-based or not- The persons in question have no entitlement for-profit projects which have received staffing to Irish travel documents. They were previously funding of over \10 million; over 60 grants to issued with temporary travel documents as an private sector child care projects which have been exceptional measure which would have enabled approved for funding of \2.1 million; funding for them to travel to obtain their own passports. In Cork city and county child care committees to June 2004 they sought a renewal of the travel enable them to carry out their day-to-day activi- documents, and they were advised to contact ties and to deliver on their respective action their nearest embassy or consulate with a view to plans. To date, over \1.6 million has been made obtaining their own national passports. available for that purpose. Travel documents are never intended to be Regarding the renewal of funding to projects, issued as a substitute for passports from a per- as the Deputy may be aware, the equal oppor- son’s own country of nationality. However, in tunities child care programme provides staffing exceptional circumstances they can be issued in grants to any community-based or not-for-profit the event that a person has been unreasonably child care services which can demonstrate a clear refused a passport from their country of origin. focus on disadvantage. Usually three years fund- In this case no documentary evidence has been ing is provided under the programme to enable produced in order to demonstrate that the per- those projects to move towards self-sustainability. sons concerned cannot obtain a passport from There will, of course, because of the nature of their country of origin. It is still open to the per- the families and communities that some of these sons in question to provide the necessary docu- services are supporting, always be a need for mentation to allow the application for the travel grant-aid for many of the groups that the prog- documents to be reconsidered on the excep- ramme is already supporting. tional basis. In that respect my Department is currently reviewing the arrangements for the ongoing sup- Child Care Services. port of such services in very disadvantaged areas 206. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Justice, and plans to introduce new arrangements for Equality and Law Reform the child care projects, funding groups for which the three-year funding play groups and child care schemes that are cur- envelope or any subsequent continuation funding rently funded in County Cork through the equal becomes exhausted by 31 August 2005. Infor- opportunities child care programme; the amount mation regarding the introduction of those new being made available to each; if and when current arrangements, which will be effective from 1 Sep- 1581 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1582 tember 2005, will be forwarded to the groups in schools has been carried out by the school plan- question as soon as it is available. ning section for the purposes of ensuring that The relevant groups have been informed that there is sufficient accommodation to cater for their staffing funding will be continued at existing demand for pupil places. That examination levels up to 31 August 2005, subject to the groups revealed that enrolments in all five schools have delivering their agreed levels of child care ser- dropped, in some cases quite dramatically, in the vice provision. past ten years. In the circumstances, school planning section is satisfied that there is ample accom- Liquor Licensing Laws. modation for the pupils in question to attend 207. Mr. Naughten asked the Minister for post-primary schools in their own catchment Justice, Equality and Law Reform his plans to areas. deregulate or introduce new legislation in the Where a board of management of one of those area of liquor licensing; and if he will make a schools or a person acting on behalf of the board statement on the matter. [7279/05] has refused to enrol a student, section 29 of the Education Act 1998 provides parents with an Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform appeal process to the Secretary General of my (Mr. McDowell): The Government legislation Department. Where an appeal under section 29 programme, which was published on 25 January is upheld, the Secretary General may direct a last, makes provision for the publication of an school to enrol a pupil. intoxicating liquor Bill later this year. It will repeal the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2004 together School Accommodation. with related licensing provisions in other statutes, 209. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- about 100 statutes in total, and replace them with cation and Science the secondary school students updated provisions geared to modern conditions. to attend from the primary school areas (details Subject to the approval of the Government for its supplied) following a decision that their areas are drafting, I intend to publish shortly details of the outside the official catchment area (details proposals which will be included in the Bill. supplied); if she has done a check on these secondary schools to see if there are places available School Enrolments. for these students from the areas supplied; if she 208. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- will meet a parents representative from each of cation and Science the plans she has for students the primary school areas to let them outline their that cannot attend a school (details supplied) who concerns; and if she will make a statement on the are outside the catchment area; and if she will matter. [7108/05] make a statement on the matter. [7107/05] Minister for Education and Science (Ms Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): For the purposes of post-primary edu- Hanafin): For the purposes of post-primary education provision, the country is divided into catch- cation provision, the country is divided into catchment areas, each of which has its own post-pri- ment areas, each of which has its own post-primary education centre. The catchment mary education centre. The catchment boundaries were determined following consul- boundaries were determined following consultation with local educational interests and the tation with local educational interests, and the intention was that certain primary schools would intention was that certain primary schools would feed exclusively into each centre. My Department feed exclusively into each centre. My Department provides accommodation to meet the educational provides accommodation to meet the educational needs of an area on this basis. needs of an area on that basis. Allowing pupils from outside a catchment area Allowing pupils from outside a catchment area to enrol in a particular school can impact nega- to enrol in a particular school can impact negatively on those who reside within the area and tively on those who reside within the area and who are entitled, as of right, to a place. It who are entitled to a place. It invariably also invariably also impacts negatively on the school impacts negatively on the school or schools which or schools to which these pupils should rightly those pupils should rightly attend and in which attend and in which considerable capital invest- considerable capital investment has been made ment has been made for this purpose. It is a for that purpose. It is a matter for all school auth- matter for all school authorities, in the context orities, in the context of their enrolment policies, of their enrolment policies, to limit enrolment to to limit enrolment to within their catchment area within their catchment area to ensure that this sit- to ensure that this situation does not arise. A uation does not arise. A school authority may school authority may offer places to pupils from offer places to pupils from outside the catchment outside the catchment area only it does not have area only it does not have repercussions for repercussions for additional accommodation. additional accommodation. The pupils to which the Deputy refers are The primary schools referred to by the Deputy within the Kilmuckridge, Carnew and Arklow are in the catchment areas of Kilmuckridge, Car- catchment areas. Those catchment areas have a new and Arklow. These catchment areas have a total of five post-primary schools between them. total of five post-primary schools between them. An examination of enrolment trends in these An examination of enrolment trends in these 1583 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1584

[Ms Hanafin.] The parties involved in the school in question schools has been carried out by school planning have been informed of the position. section for the purposes of ensuring that there is sufficient accommodation to cater for demand for School Transport. post-primary pupil places. This examination 212. Mr. J. O’Keeffe asked the Minister for revealed that enrolments in all five schools have Education and Science if, when determining an dropped, in some cases quite dramatically, in the application for school transport for persons past ten years. In the circumstances, the school (details supplied), she will ignore the closed planning section is satisfied that there is ample school ruling. [7226/05] accommodation for the pupils in question to attend post-primary schools in their own catch- Minister for Education and Science (Ms ment areas. Hanafin): A report on this case has been Where a board of management of one of these requested from Bus E´ ireann. The Deputy will be schools or a person acting on behalf of the board advised of the position when the report has been has refused to enrol a student, section 29 of the received and assessed. Education Act 1998 provides parents with an appeal process to the Secretary General of my School Accommodation. Department. Where an appeal under section 29 213. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Edu- is upheld, the Secretary General may direct a cation and Science if her attention has been school to enrol a pupil. drawn to the fact that families moving into Bal- In all the circumstances, it is not my intention briggan, County Dublin are unable to secure to meet with the groups to which the Deputy places for their children who may already be in refers at this time. school from their previous address or who are 210. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- due to commence school in September 2005; and cation and Science if her attention has been if, in this regard, she will report on the position drawn to the problems that have arisen in a sec- of a person (details supplied) in County ondary school (details supplied) in County Dublin. [7227/05] Wexford where 43 pupils have been turned away 214. Mr. S. Ryan asked the Minister for Edu- as there is no place available to them in the cation and Science if her attention has been school; the plans she has to rectify the problem; drawn to the fact that families moving into Bal- if she has spoken to her Department officials on briggan, County Dublin are unable to secure this matter; and if she will make a statement on places for their children who may already be in the matter. [7109/05] school from their previous address or who are due to commence school in September 2005; and Minister for Education and Science (Ms if, in this regard, she will report on the position Hanafin): An application is currently being con- of a person (details supplied) in County Dublin; sidered from this school to improve accommo- and if she will make a statement on the dation in September. matter. [7228/05] Boards of Management. Minister for Education and Science (Ms Hanafin): I propose to take Questions Nos. 213 211. Mr. Carey asked the Minister for Edu- and 214 together. cation and Science when she will be able to clarify the inclusion of parents and teacher representa- My Department is aware that Balbriggan is a tives on the boards of comprehensive schools, in rapidly developing area and it is taking a number particular the board of a school (details supplied) of measures to address this situation. in Dublin 9; and if she will make a statement on Under the capital programme for 2005, sanc- the matter. [7110/05] tion has been given for temporary accommodation at St. Molagas national school, Scoil Minister for Education and Science (Ms Peadar agus Po´ l national school and St. George’s Hanafin): To expedite the appointment of a prin- national school to cater for increased enrolments cipal to oversee the commencement of the school for September 2005. to which the Deputy refers, it is essential that a In addition to this, an application for the estab- board of management is appointed immediately. lishment of a new primary school under the This board must be constituted in accordance patronage of Educate Together is currently being with the existing model which does not, at this assessed by the New Schools Advisory Commit- point in time, allow for parent or teacher rep- tee. My Department is supporting this appli- resentation. cation, a decision on which will be given by mid- This board, however, will be replaced by a April next. board that will include such representation fol- With regard to future provision in the Balbrig- lowing the finalisation of revised arrangements gan area, as the Deputy will be aware, a new for the composition of boards of management school planning model involving published area across the comprehensive sector. Agreement on development plans is being piloted in five areas these arrangements is nearing conclusion with the over the current school year. Balbriggan is relevant education partners. included in the pilot scheme as part of an overall 1585 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1586 plan for the north Dublin-east Meath and south necessary, of special resource teachers and-or Louth area. The need for additional educational special needs assistants. provision in the area will be considered in this Children with more severe disabilities are cat- context. ered for in special schools which are dedicated to The purpose of this new approach to school particular disability groups. There are three planning is to ensure that, in future, the provision special schools in operation in County Kildare at of school infrastructure will be decided only after present catering for approximately 157 pupils a transparent consultation process. In this regard, with special needs with a pupil-teacher ratio rang- parents, trustees, sponsors of prospective new ing from 6:1 to 11:1. These schools cater for chil- schools and all interested parties from a locality dren from four to 18 years of age and each school will have the opportunity to have their voices enjoys a significantly reduced pupil teacher ratio heard in the process. and other staffing supports. Additional special Arising from this process, an individual plan needs assistant support is provided if deemed will set out the blueprint for the future of edu- necessary. Special schools also receive increased cational provision in an area, which will be the rates of capitation funding. touchstone against which all decisions in relation In addition to these special schools, I can con- to capital investment will be made for the next firm that the following special needs provision in decade. County Kildare has been sanctioned by my The draft plan for north Dublin-east Meath Department to cater for the special educational and south Louth area is nearing completion in the needs, SEN, of pupils: nine special classes for school planning section of my Department and I pupils with autism at a pupil-teacher ratio of 6:1; hope to be in a position to publish it shortly. six special classes for pupils with mild general With regard to the specific issues referred to by learning disabilities at a pupil-teacher ratio of the Deputy the position is that where a board of 11:1; and one special class for pupils with moder- management of a school or a person acting on ate general learning disabilities at a pupil teacher behalf of the board has refused to enrol a student, ratio of 8:1. section 29 of the Education Act 1998 provides All special classes attached to ordinary main- parents with an appeal process to the Secretary stream schools enjoy the same increased levels of General of my Department. Where an appeal staffing and funding as are made available to the under section 29 is upheld, the Secretary General special schools. Children with special educational may direct a school to enrol a pupil. needs attending special classes attached to ordinary schools may, where appropriate, be inte- Special Educational Needs. grated into ordinary classes for periods of the school day and, in that way, benefit from being 215. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- able to socialise with their non-disabled peers. cation and Science if for the future she will My Department also provides funding for The approve the special needs teaching facilities and Saplings Project, a facility sanctioned on a pilot models in primary schools throughout County basis which uses applied behavioural analysis Kildare that are most suited to each particular methodologies for children with autism. There schools requirements, having regard to children’s are approximately 30 children enrolled in the needs and parents concerns; and if she will make facility. a statement on the matter. [7246/05] While children are awaiting a suitable edu- Minister for Education and Science (Ms cational placement, my Department may sanction Hanafin): Every effort is made to ensure that home tuition as an interim measure, if children with special educational needs receive an appropriate. education appropriate to their needs. Decisions In the light of the reality that pupils in the high regarding the most appropriate model of incidence disability categories of mild and response in each particular case are based on the borderline mild general learning disability and professionally-assessed needs of the individual dyslexia are distributed throughout the education child. system, my Department, in consultation with edu- Children who have been assessed as having cational interests, developed a general model of special educational needs have access to a range resource teacher allocation to schools to support of special support services. The services range students in these disability categories. This from special schools dedicated to particular dis- model, which was announced by my predecessor ability groups, through special classes-units in 2004 to come into effect from September 2005, attached to ordinary schools to placement on an was designed to put in place a permanent integrated basis in ordinary schools, with special resource in primary schools to cater for pupils in back-up supports. these categories. My Department’s policy is to ensure the The model was constructed so that allocations maximum possible integration of children with would be based on pupil numbers, taking into special educational needs into ordinary main- account the differing needs of the most stream schools. Many children with such needs disadvantaged schools and the evidence that boys are capable of attending mainstream schools on have greater difficulties than girls in this regard. a fully integrated basis with the support, where The logic behind having a general allocation 1587 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1588

[Ms Hanafin.] requirement in the future; and if she will make a model is to reduce the need for individual appli- statement on the matter. [7247/05] cations and supporting psychological assessments, and put resources in place on a more systematic Minister for Education and Science (Ms basis, thereby giving schools more certainty about Hanafin): The school referred to by the Deputy their resource levels. This will allow for better currently has the services of one shared learning planning in schools, greater flexibility in identi- support teacher and two resource teachers. fying and intervening earlier with regard to In light of the reality that pupils in the high pupils’ special educational needs, as well as mak- incidence disability categories of mild and ing the posts more attractive to qualified teachers. borderline mild general learning disability and As I have told the Da´il on a number of dyslexia are distributed throughout the education occasions, I am very conscious of difficulties that system, my Department, in consultation with edu- could arise in relation to the model announced cational interests, developed a general model of last year, particularly for children in small and resource teacher allocation to schools to support rural schools, if it were implemented as currently pupils in these disability categories. This model, proposed. Accordingly, I am having the proposed which was announced by my predecessor in 2004 model reviewed to ensure that it provides an to come into effect from September 2005, was automatic response for pupils with common mild designed to put in place a permanent resource in learning disabilities, without the need for cumber- primary schools to cater for pupils in these some individual applications, while at the same categories. time ensuring that pupils currently in receipt of The model was constructed so that allocations service continue to receive the level of service would be based on pupil numbers, taking into appropriate to their needs. In carrying out the account the differing needs of the most review, my Department is consulting with rep- disadvantaged schools and the evidence that boys resentative interests including the National have greater difficulties than girls in this regard. Council for Special Education. The logic behind having a general allocation I have made it clear that I am in favour of using model is to reduce the need for individual appli- a general allocation model to ensure that we have cations and supporting psychological assessments in place a permanent resource in our primary and put resources in place on a more systematic schools to cater for pupils with high incidence basis, thereby giving schools more certainty about mild disabilities and learning difficulties. their resource levels. This will allow for better However, it will not be as announced last year. planning in schools, greater flexibility in identi- The revised procedure for providing a general fying and intervening earlier with regard to allocation of resource hours to schools will be pupils’ special needs, as well as making the posts announced in the coming weeks, in time to be more attractive to qualified teachers. implemented for the next school year. As I have informed the Da´il on a number of In the lower incidence disability categories occasions, I am, however, conscious of difficulties resources will continue to be allocated on the that could arise in respect of the model basis of individual applications. It is important announced last year, particularly for children in that where there is a particular and special need small and rural schools, if it were implemented as in the low incidence category these children are currently proposed. Accordingly, I am having the proposed model reviewed to ensure that it pro- considered individually. These pupils are not vides an automatic response for pupils with com- evenly distributed among schools and a general mon mild learning disabilities, without the need allocation model would not be appropriate. for cumbersome individual applications, while at However, the involvement of the National the same time ensuring that pupils currently in Council for Special Education, NCSE, and the receipt of service continue to receive the level of special education needs organisers will greatly service appropriate to their needs. In carrying out enhance the speed of response to such the review, my Department is consulting with applications. representative interests including the National I am confident the advent of the NCSE will Council for Special Education. prove of major benefit in ensuring that all chil- I have made it clear that I am in favour of using dren with special educational needs, including a general allocation model to ensure that we have those in County Kildare, receive the support they in place a permanent resource in our primary require when and where they require it. schools to cater for pupils with high incidence mild disabilities and learning difficulties. Special Educational Needs. However, it will not be as announced last year. 216. Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Edu- The revised procedure for providing a general cation and Science her proposals in respect of the allocation of resource hours to schools will be special needs teaching model to be approved for announced in the coming weeks, in time to be a school (details supplied) in County Kildare; the implemented for the next school year. A com- status of circulars 904, 802 and the relevant 05 munication will issue to the school in question at circular in regard to special needs teaching and that point. In the lower incidence disability categ- the way in which the school in question is likely ories, resources will continue to be allocated on to be catered for in respect of special needs the basis of individual applications. 1589 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1590

It is important that where there is a particular integrated basis in ordinary schools, with special special need in the low incidence category that back-up supports. these children are considered individually. These My Department’s policy is to ensure the pupils are not evenly distributed among schools maximum possible integration of children with and a general allocation model would not be special educational needs into ordinary main- appropriate. However, the involvement of the stream schools. Many children with such needs National Council for Special Education and the are capable of attending mainstream schools on special education needs organisers will greatly a fully integrated basis with the support, where enhance the speed of response to such necessary, of special resource teachers and/or applications. special needs assistants. Children with more severe disabilities are cat- School Transport. ered for in special schools which are dedicated to 217. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- particular disability groups. There are 107 special cation and Science if the review of school trans- schools in the country at present. These schools port has been completed; if not, when it is cater for children from four to 18 years of age and expected; and if she will make a statement on the each school enjoys a significantly reduced pupil- matter. [7253/05] teacher ratio and other staffing supports. Additional special needs assistant support is pro- Minister for Education and Science (Ms vided if deemed necessary. Special schools also Hanafin): The review of the school transport receive increased rates of capitation funding. scheme within my Department is at an advanced Where placement in a special school is not con- stage. The steps required to bring the matter to sidered necessary, children with special edu- an early conclusion are under active consider- cational needs can attend special classes attached ation at present. to ordinary mainstream schools. All special classes enjoy the same increased levels of staffing Special Educational Needs. and funding as are made available to the special 218. Ms O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Edu- schools. Children with special educational needs cation and Science when she will introduce guide- attending special classes attached to ordinary lines for special needs provision in post-primary schools may, where appropriate, be integrated schools; and if she will make a statement on the into ordinary classes for periods of the school day matter. [7254/05] and, in that way, benefit from being able to socialise with their non-disabled peers. While Minister for Education and Science (Ms children are awaiting a suitable educational Hanafin): My Department has already under- placement, my Department may sanction home taken the preparation of guidelines for special tuition as an interim measure, if appropriate. needs provision in post-primary schools. These The following dedicated resources are now guidelines have been prepared in consultation deployed to support children with special edu- with representatives of special education depart- cational needs in the primary system: more than ments engaged in providing training to teachers 2,600 resource teachers — up from 104 in 1998; in the area of special needs education at second more than 1,500 learning support teachers — up level. The draft guidelines are currently being from 1,302 in 1998; more than 1,000 teachers in edited and discussions will commence shortly special schools; more than 600 teachers in special with the relevant interest bodies prior to circu- classes; more than 5,000 special needs assistants lation to second level schools. — up from 300 in 1998; more than \30 million 219. Mr. F. McGrath asked the Minister for on school transport for special needs pupils; more Education and Science if all pupils with dis- than \3 million towards specialised equipment abilities at primary and second level will receive and materials — up from \800,000 in 1998. the maximum support and assistance in 2005; and To appreciate the scale of improvement in the if she will report on new services coming on provision of resources to primary schools for stream. [7255/05] special needs, it is worth reflecting on the fact that, at approximately 10,700, the number of Minister for Education and Science (Ms adults providing services to children with special Hanafin): Every effort is made to ensure that educational needs in primary schools today children with special educational needs receive an equates to more than half of the 21,100 primary education appropriate to their needs. Decisions teaching force in 1998. regarding the most appropriate model of The level of resources being made available by response in each particular case are based on the my Department to support students with special professionally-assessed needs of the individual educational needs in the second level system has child. Children who have been assessed as having also grown significantly in recent years. In the special educational needs have access to a range current school year to date, my Department has of special support services. The services range allocated approximately 1,386 whole-time equiv- from special schools dedicated to particular dis- alent teachers and approximately 626 special ability groups, through special classes-units needs assistants to second level schools and VECs attached to ordinary schools, to placement on an to cater for the special educational needs of 1591 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1592

[Ms Hanafin.] system, my Department, in consultation with edu- students at second level. This represents an cational interests, developed a general model of increase of approximately 280 resource teacher resource teacher allocation to schools to support posts and approximately 160 special needs assist- students in these disability categories. This ant posts on the previous school year. model, which was announced by my predecessor The Deputy will be aware that with effect from in 2004 to come into effect from September 2005, 1 January 2005, the National Council for Special was designed to put in place a permanent Education, NCSE, has taken over responsibility resource in primary schools to cater for pupils in for processing resource applications for children these categories. with disabilities who have special educational The model was constructed so that allocations needs and, in particular, it is responsible for the would be based on pupil numbers, taking into following: deciding on applications for resource account the differing needs of the most teaching hours in respect of children with low disadvantaged schools and the evidence that boys incidence disabilities with special educational have greater difficulties than girls in this regard. needs at primary level; deciding on applications The logic behind having a general allocation for additional teaching support in respect of chil- model is to reduce the need for individual appli- dren with disabilities with special educational cations and supporting psychological assessments needs at second level; and deciding on appli- and put resources in place on a more systematic cations for special needs assistant, SNA, hours. basis, thereby giving schools more certainty about Under the new arrangements, the council, their resource levels. This will allow for better through the local special educational needs planning in schools, greater flexibility in identi- organiser, SENO, will process the relevant appli- fying and intervening earlier with regard to cation for resources at primary and post-primary pupils’ special needs, as well as making the posts level and inform the school of the outcome. It is important to note that in the case of decisions more attractive to qualified teachers. on resource teaching and SNAs, the SENO will As I have informed the Da´il on a number of outline the process to the school and parents, occasions, I am, however, conscious of difficulties where appropriate, and will at the end of the pro- that could arise in respect of the model cess outline the basis on which the decision was announced last year, particularly for children in made. I am confident that the advent of the small and rural schools, if it were implemented as NCSE will prove of major benefit in ensuring that currently proposed. Accordingly, I am having the all children with special educational needs receive proposed model reviewed to ensure that it pro- the support they require when and where they vides an automatic response for pupils with com- require it. mon mild learning disabilities, without the need My Department has recently issued a circular for cumbersome individual applications, while at and letter advising the authorities of primary and the same time ensuring that pupils currently in post-primary schools respectively, of the arrange- receipt of service continue to receive the level of ments put in place as a result of the transfer of service appropriate to their needs. In carrying out these functions to the NCSE. My Department is the review, my Department is consulting with continuing to prioritise the development of the representative interests including the National network of special educational provision for chil- Council for Special Education. dren with special needs and I believe that the I have made it clear that I am in favour of using steps taken in recent years and those currently in a general allocation model to ensure that we have hand represent significant progress in the in place a permanent resource in our primary development of those services. The enactment of schools to cater for pupils with high incidence the Education for Persons with Special Education mild disabilities and learning difficulties. Needs Act and the establishment of the NCSE However, it will not be as announced last year. have provided the key to underpin service deliv- The revised procedure for providing a general ery in the future. allocation of resource hours to schools will be 220. Mr. Kehoe asked the Minister for Edu- announced in the coming weeks, in time to be cation and Science when the review regarding the implemented for the next school year. In the allocation of learning support and resource lower incidence disability categories, resources teachers will be concluded; if resource hours will will continue to be allocated on the basis of indi- be allocated on a needs basis as opposed to an vidual applications. enrolment basis; her views on whether the pro- It is important that where there is a particular posed system discriminates against all-girls special need in the low incidence category that schools; and if she will make a statement on the these children are considered individually. These matter. [7256/05] pupils are not evenly distributed among schools and a general allocation model would not be Minister for Education and Science (Ms appropriate. However, the involvement of the Hanafin): In light of the reality that pupils in the National Council for Special Education and the high incidence disability categories of mild and special education needs organisers will greatly borderline mild general learning disability and enhance the speed of response to such dyslexia are distributed throughout the education applications. 1593 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1594

School Staffing. provision in primary schools is continuing. The review is concerned with the level and deploy- 221. Mr. Deasy asked the Minister for Edu- ment of SNA posts in mainstream classes. The cation and Science if her attention has been intention is to ensure that the level of approved drawn to the fact that there are a number of sec- SNA support in schools, and the manner in which retaries in secondary schools who, due to the fact that support is being allocated, are such as to that their schools did not avail of the permanent ensure that the special care needs of pupils are post of school secretary in 1978, now find that being appropriately met. Decisions regarding the despite long years of service they have no pension appropriate level of SNA support in respect of rights or status; the number of such secretaries in applications made to my Department will be each county; if she will consider reviewing their based on the outcome of this review. situation to bring them in line with their col- The school in question will be reviewed shortly. leagues; and if she will make a statement on the The position regarding the appropriate level of matter. [7284/05] SNA support at the school will be determined following this review and the school will be advised Minister for Education and Science (Ms accordingly. Hanafin): In the case of secondary schools, my Department provides funding towards the cost of Local Authority Funding. secretarial services under two separate schemes. The first of these is the 1978-79 scheme for the 224. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- employment of school secretaries in secondary onment, Heritage and Local Government if he schools, under which my Department meets the will report on the application which was made by full cost of salary. Pension scheme arrangements Mayo County Council to his Department for apply since 1985 to secretaries employed under funding under the planned maintenance prog- this scheme. The 1978-79 scheme is being phased ramme. [7314/05] out as posts become vacant and no new posts are 226. Mr. Ring asked the Minister for the Envir- being created. onment, Heritage and Local Government when The 1978-79 scheme has been superseded by a his Department will be sanctioning the remainder more extensive school support grant scheme of funding to Mayo County Council under the towards the funding of ancillary services in planned maintenance programme. [7220/05] schools including secretarial services. The scheme, by its nature, is flexible and gives schools Minister of State at the Department of the discretion as to the manner in which secretarial Environment, Heritage and Local Government services are provided. It has been a matter for the (Mr. N. Ahern): I propose to take Questions schools in question to determine such matters as Nos. 224 and 226 together. to whether to employ one or more secretaries, the I refer to the reply to Questions Nos. 424 and hours of employment, their pay and general terms 425 of 1 March 2005. My Department has no cur- and conditions. In the case of such employees, I rent application from Mayo County Council for understand secondary schools have been advised consideration of funding under a planned main- by their representative managerial body regard- tenance programme. ing the right of such employees to contribute to personal retirement savings accounts, PRSAs. Water and Sewerage Schemes. Higher Education Grants. 225. Ms O. Mitchell asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government 222. Mr. Stanton asked the Minister for Edu- the reason there was no grant allocation for the cation and Science the higher education mainten- past two years to Du´ n Laoghaire-Rathdown ance grants applicable for the coming year; and if County Council under the small scheme’s prog- she will make a statement on the matter. ramme for water and drainage; if his attention has [7285/05] been drawn to the fact that there is a potential Minister for Education and Science (Ms environmental gain for many houses in rural and Hanafin): The process of reviewing the thresholds formerly rural areas in that they may access new for eligibility and the grant levels for the 2005-06 main sewers. [7182/05] academic year is currently ongoing. Decisions on Minister for the Environment, Heritage and the 2005 schemes will be announced as soon as Local Government (Mr. Roche): The annual this process is completed. block grant allocations to county councils for small public water and sewerage schemes are Special Educational Needs. made under my Department’s rural water prog- 223. Mr. Walsh asked the Minister for Edu- ramme. The objective of the small schemes cation and Science the position regarding the measure is to assist in the provision or upgrading retention of a special needs assistant at a school of public water supply and sewerage services in (details supplied) in County Cork. [7286/05] areas where existing infrastructure is deficient. Having regard to the predominantly rural focus Minister for Education and Science (Ms of the small schemes measure, the high level of Hanafin): The school concerned has the services demand for improved water and sewerage ser- of two full time special needs assistants, SNAs, vices in rural towns and villages nationally, the including the SNA referred to by the Deputy. \119 million in major water services infrastructu- The Deputy will be aware that a review of SNA ral upgrades approved for Du´ n Laoghaire- 1595 Questions— 2 March 2005. Written Answers 1596

[Mr. Roche.] determine them later this month. Applications for Rathdown in the Department’s water services directions in relation to archaeological works investment programme 2004-2006 and the overall relating to sites on the remaining sections of the degree of access to water and sewerage services approved road have not yet been submitted to in the Du´ n Laoghaire-Rathdown area generally, my Department. no rural water allocations were made to the The timescale for the carrying out of any per- county council in 2004 or 2005. mitted archaeological works is an operational issue for the NRA and Meath County Council. Question No. 226 answered with Question No. 224. Proposed Legislation. 227. Mr. O’Donovan asked the Minister for the 229. Mr. Lowry asked the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government Environment, Heritage and Local Government if his plans for a sewage scheme for an area (details he will amend the Local Government Act to supplied) in County Cork; the proposed date for enable expanding towns with populations under works to the scheme to commence; the nature of 7,000 to establish town councils (details supplied); the works to be executed; and if he will make a and if he will make a statement on the matter. statement on the matter. [7221/05] [7224/05] Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Drinagh Local Government (Mr. Roche): The Local sewerage scheme was not accorded a high priority Government Act 2001 was designed to modernise ranking in the list of water services schemes sub- the legislative framework, support community mitted by Cork County Council’s for its western involvement with local authorities in a more part- division in response to my Department’s request icipative local democracy and underpin generally in 2003 to all local authorities to undertake fresh the programme of local government renewal, assessments of the needs for capital works in their including the position of county and city councils areas and to prioritise their proposals on the basis as the primary units of local government. The Act of the assessments. The priority lists were taken takes account of the recommendations of the into account in the framing of my Department’s 1996 report of the reorganisation commission water services investment programme 2004-2006, towards cohesive local government — town and published last year. county — regarding improved accessibility, inter- In view of the priority afforded to the scheme action and linkages for non-local authority towns by the council, it has not been possible to include within county council areas. The commission’s it the programme. report stated that the existence of town authorities in a number of small towns is not in itself Archaeological Sites. a premise on which to base a case for the creation of new authorities in all or any other towns of 228. Mr. Cuffe asked the Minister for the that size and concluded, inter alia, that the wide- Environment, Heritage and Local Government spread creation of new town authorities was the archaeological issue he is currently determin- neither warranted nor feasible. The report recom- ing with regard to the proposed M3 motorway; if mended that only towns with a population of he is examining archaeological sites along the 7,500 or over be eligible for consideration. In line entire route of the proposed road; if he is only with this, section 185 of that Act provides, inter examining the vicinity of the Tara-Skryne Valley; alia, that qualified electors of a town having a when he intends to issue the determination; the population of at least 7,500 as ascertained at the timescale envisaged for the excavations; and if he last preceding census or such other figure as the will make a statement on the matter. [7222/05] Minister may from time to time prescribe by Minister for the Environment, Heritage and regulations, and not having a town council, may Local Government (Mr. Roche): I am at present make a proposal for the establishment of such a examining two applications for directions under council. section 14A(2) of the National Monuments Act The local government modernisation prog- 1930, as amended, as regards archaeological ramme has seen local authorities respond to the works to be carried out in respect of sections of need to decentralise service delivery through the the proposed M3 motorway which was approved provision of local area offices, substantial invest- by An Bord Plena´la in August 2003. Such direc- ment in e-local government with the use of on- tions allow for proper standards to be specified line technology to improve efficiency and effec- for the carrying out of archaeological works tiveness in service delivery, and the production of associated with approved road developments. local authority customer action plans. In addition, One of the applications received covers the the Planning and Development Act 2000 provides Clonee to Dunshaughlin section of the route and that a local area plan must be prepared for all the other application is for the Dunshaughlin to towns with a population of more than 2,000 that Navan section. It is the latter that passes through are not already planning authorities, thus ensur- the Tara-Skryne valley. ing that the citizens of smaller towns have a full I am at present consulting with the director of opportunity to participate in the process of the National Museum with regard to these appli- developing strategic priorities for their local cations and would hope to be in a position to areas.