Legislative Assemblée Assembly législative of Ontario de l’Ontario Official Report Journal of Debates des débats (Hansard) (Hansard) T-16 T-16 Standing Committee on Comité permanent des Regulations and Private Bills règlements et des projets de loi d’intérêt privé 1st Session 1re session 42nd Parliament 42e législature Wednesday 14 October 2020 Mercredi 14 octobre 2020 Chair: Deepak Anand Président : Deepak Anand Clerk: Isaiah Thorning Greffier : Isaiah Thorning CONTENTS Wednesday 14 October 2020 Magna Carta Day Act (In Memory of Julia Munro, MPP), 2020, Bill 201, Ms. McKenna / Loi de 2020 sur le Jour de la Grande Charte (à la mémoire de Julia Monro, députée provinciale), projet de loi 201, Mme McKenna ........................................................................... T-53 Durham Community Legal Clinic ......................................................................................... T-57 Mr. Omar Ha-Redeye 14 OCTOBRE 2020 COMITÉ PERMANENT DES RÈGLEMENTS ET DES PROJETS DE LOI D’INTÉRÊT PRIVÉ T-57 DURHAM COMMUNITY LEGAL CLINIC as a legal source and a legal authority, when it has absolutely no authority in the manner in which they’re The Chair (Mr. Deepak Anand): Good morning and welcome back, everybody. I’ll now call Mr. Omar Ha- presenting it. These disruptive activities cost taxpayers a Redeye, the executive director of the Durham Community significant amount of resources, as these unsubstantiated Legal Clinic. Welcome, sir. Please say your name, and you legal arguments are deliberately intended to tie up the have seven minutes for your presentation. You may begin court’s resources. now. So does that mean that the Magna Carta is entirely irredeemable as a symbol worth celebrating in Ontario? Mr. Omar Ha-Redeye: Hello. My name is Omar Ha- Hardly not. The important emphasis here is in the manner Redeye and I am the executive director of the Durham of its commemoration and the meanings that are imbued Community Legal Clinic. We are a community legal clinic which focuses on the interests and legal issues of low- behind such symbols. income Ontarians, as well as law reform and general I would like to point to a few examples of how we can systemic legal issues. perhaps use the Magna Carta today as a symbol of the values that we currently cherish here in Ontario. What the I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak about the significance of the Magna Carta and how it might be Magna Carta really does symbolize or signify, from my interpreted, and perhaps even celebrated, by historically perspective, is the fact that the rule of law should be the marginalized and low-income Ontarians. I hope to do so dominant manner, or the main manner, in which we with particular consideration for access to justice, the rule govern ourselves in our society. of law, and the creation of a free and democratic society. What that means is that we should refrain from The Magna Carta is perhaps an unusual thing to cele- routinely relying on massive omnibus bills that would brate, from a legal perspective. It is more popular, among perhaps retroactively invalidate very significant investiga- common law jurisdictions, among those who would tions into things like police conduct. We should be con- support, for example, a republic rather than a constitution- cerned about governments that perhaps prohibit donations al monarchy, and is therefore a more obvious document to to political parties by corporations and trade unions, if the celebrate in the American context rather than in Canada or intent really is to prevent big money from influencing even the UK. elections, especially if millions of dollars are then used in In the UK today, the Magna Carta has minimal legal politically guided ads as a means to influence our democ- effect—there are only three or four clauses that are racy. We might be concerned when we have government relevant there—and in Canada, the legal significance of it ministers forcing public servants to work overtime on the is even more negligible still. The reasons for this are weekends, for example, in order to do advertising videos largely grounded in the Magna Carta’s history. Just or political videos that advance their own personal months after it was signed on June 15, 1215, it was interests. denounced by Pope Innocent III in a letter dated August In other words, what the Magna Carta can and should 24. Under threat of excommunication, it was deemed “null mean for us today is a government that’s elected on a and void of all validity for ever.” promise of accountability and transparency, and works to Of course, we know that’s not what happened to Magna ensure that there are proper balances in our democratic Carta. It was soon reissued after King John’s death by system. That is a Magna Carta that we certainly can and Henry III’s regents on November 12, 1216. But it was should celebrate and cherish in Ontario. If that is the already a different Magna Carta, with only 37 clauses purpose of having a Magna Carta Day, it is certainly one instead of the original 63. That might be significant, that we would support and we would encourage all because the original 1215 Magna Carta had a number of Ontarians to stand behind. Thank you. provisions today that we would perhaps find troubling. The Chair (Mr. Deepak Anand): Thank you so much, There were two clauses that were explicitly anti-Semitic Omar. There will be two rounds of questions, starting with in their nature, for example, and a third one which we can the government. You have seven and a half minutes, assume did refer to the Jewish populations of England at followed by the official opposition, who will have seven the time. and a half minutes, and then the independent members for There is also, of course, the context here of a number of four and a half minutes. Starting with the government side, barons forcibly gathering with their armies nearby at would anyone like to take the lead? I see MPP Barrett. Runnymede, placing the king under duress to perhaps Mr. Toby Barrett: Yes, thank you, Chair. Am I force him to give concessions. It’s not what we would coming through okay? Yes? Can people hear me? conceive today of being the way in which we change the The Chair (Mr. Deepak Anand): Yes. law or the way in which we govern ourselves. Mr. Toby Barrett: Okay, thank you. I’m out in the For many of these reasons, Canadian courts have in fact country; sometimes things don’t work very well. explicitly rejected the Magna Carta as a source of law, and 0940 there is a long-standing concern that it has been routinely I appreciate the presentation. Very briefly: I hear what misused by litigants who are disruptive to the justice you’re saying with respect to how, over eight centuries system. To put this differently, there are a number of later, much of the Magna Carta maybe isn’t relevant in our Canadians across Canada who are clogging up our court modern society. I’m sure things I’m talking about today systems right now as we speak, invoking the Magna Carta may not have much relevance 805 years from now either; T-58 STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS 14 OCTOBER 2020 I don’t know as far as the rest of the people on the You also brought up the Canadian Bill of Rights, a very, committee. very important precursor to the Charter of Rights and You made mention—I think you used the word that it’s Freedoms that came later. There were some deficiencies an “inspiration.” I found that when I was first elected— with that Canadian Bill of Rights; in particular, it didn’t I’m afraid that was 25 years ago—the very first week I was have constitutional status. Justice Rand, one of the judges in the Legislature, I had to do a private member’s bill, and at the Supreme Court of Canada who was reviewing the I had no idea what that was. I was able, with some help, to Bill of Rights, went on to become the founding dean of pull together a private member’s bill, the same kind of Western Law school, where I went to law school. legislation we’re debating today, to restore property rights The concern there was that when it isn’t of a constitu- to the province of Ontario. tional nature, what we could potentially do is fall into the I always recall the Canadian Bill of Rights in my same ills and evils, if you will, that we saw in World grandfather’s kitchen. In the Canadian Bill of Rights, War II, where property rights, as you brought up, were property rights were enshrined in that document. I can’t abandoned, where people were taken from their homes and remember whether that was—I guess that was actual put into camps here in Canada based on, for example, legislation; I’m not sure. And then the Charter of Rights Japanese origin. and Freedoms came forward and property rights were not We find some of those analogies also with the Magna included, for whatever reason. We know even back, Carta. You mentioned property rights there. Those obviously, in the days of the Magna Carta, those delibera- property rights weren’t for everybody. It was a feudalistic tions and politics were involved. Archbishop Langton society, so there was a number of barons, the very rich and presented it on behalf of the church, and then you indicated wealthy elite, who were looking to protect their interests the Pope was against it.