Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 29th Legislature Second Session Select Special Ethics and Accountability Committee Election Finances and Contributions Disclosure Act Review Friday, September 23, 2016 9 a.m. Transcript No. 29-2-16 Legislative Assembly of Alberta The 29th Legislature Second Session Select Special Ethics and Accountability Committee Littlewood, Jessica, Fort Saskatchewan-Vegreville (ND), Chair Miller, Barb, Red Deer-South (ND), Deputy Chair Anderson, Wayne, Highwood (W) Clark, Greg, Calgary-Elbow (AP) Connolly, Michael R.D., Calgary-Hawkwood (ND) Cooper, Nathan, Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills (W)* Cortes-Vargas, Estefania, Strathcona-Sherwood Park (ND) Cyr, Scott J., Bonnyville-Cold Lake (W) Drever, Deborah, Calgary-Bow (ND) Horne, Trevor A.R., Spruce Grove-St. Albert (ND)** Jansen, Sandra, Calgary-North West (PC) Loyola, Rod, Edmonton-Ellerslie (ND) Nielsen, Christian E., Edmonton-Decore (ND) Nixon, Jason, Rimbey-Rocky Mountain House-Sundre (W) Renaud, Marie F., St. Albert (ND) Starke, Dr. Richard, Vermilion-Lloydminster (PC) Sucha, Graham, Calgary-Shaw (ND) Swann, Dr. David, Calgary-Mountain View (AL) van Dijken, Glenn, Barrhead-Morinville-Westlock (W) * substitution for Wayne Anderson ** substitution for Michael Connolly Office of the Chief Electoral Officer Participants Glen Resler Chief Electoral Officer Kevin Lee Director, Election Finances Fiona Vance Legal Counsel Drew Westwater Deputy Chief Electoral Officer Support Staff Robert H. Reynolds, QC Clerk Shannon Dean Law Clerk and Director of House Services Trafton Koenig Parliamentary Counsel Stephanie LeBlanc Parliamentary Counsel Andrea Szabo Legal Counsel Philip Massolin Manager of Research and Committee Services Sarah Amato Research Officer Nancy Robert Research Officer Corinne Dacyshyn Committee Clerk Jody Rempel Committee Clerk Aaron Roth Committee Clerk Karen Sawchuk Committee Clerk Rhonda Sorensen Manager of Corporate Communications and Broadcast Services Jeanette Dotimas Communications Consultant Tracey Sales Communications Consultant Janet Schwegel Managing Editor of Alberta Hansard Transcript produced by Alberta Hansard September 23, 2016 Ethics and Accountability EA-473 9 a.m. Friday, September 23, 2016 Official substitutions for the record. Mr. Cooper is substituting Title: Friday, September 23, 2016 ea for Mr. W. Anderson. Mr. Horne is substituting for Mr. Connolly. [Mrs. Littlewood in the chair] A few housekeeping items to address before we turn to the business at hand. A reminder again that the microphone consoles The Chair: Good morning. I’d like to call the meeting of the Select are operated by the Hansard staff, so there’s no need for members Special Ethics and Accountability Committee to order. Welcome to to touch them. Please keep cellphones, iPhones, and BlackBerrys members and staff in attendance. off the table as these may interfere with the audiofeed. Audio of To begin, I will ask that members and those joining the committee proceedings is streamed live on the Internet and committee at the table introduce themselves for the record, and then recorded by Hansard. Audio access and meeting transcripts are I will address members that are on the phone. I will begin to my obtained via the Legislative Assembly website. right. Up next we have the approval of the agenda. Does anyone have Ms Dean: Shannon Dean, Law Clerk and director of House any changes to make? Mr. Clark. services. Mr. Clark: Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the things I’d like to Ms Miller: Barb Miller, MLA, Red Deer-South. suggest, if I may, perhaps under other business – this may not necessitate a change to the agenda – is that I believe it’s in our Loyola: Rod Loyola, MLA, Edmonton-Ellerslie. interest to discuss the adjourned motion around a request for the Legislative Assembly to extend this committee, at approximately Cortes-Vargas: Estefania Cortes-Vargas, MLA for Strathcona- 1:30 this afternoon, just determine where we are by that point. Sherwood Park. The Chair: Yeah. We do have that under discussion on the agenda. Mr. Sucha: Graham Sucha, MLA, Calgary-Shaw. Mr. Clark: Is it? Okay. Specifically, where do we anticipate Mr. Horne: Trevor Horne, MLA, Spruce Grove-St. Albert. discussing that? Discussion of committee mandate: is that what that Mr. Nielsen: Good morning. Chris Nielsen, MLA, Edmonton- is? Decore. The Chair: Item 6. Drever: Deborah Drever, MLA for Calgary-Bow. Mr. Clark: Okay. Perfect. Thank you very much. Ms Renaud: Marie Renaud, St. Albert. The Chair: Seeing no changes, would a member like to move a Mr. Lee: Good morning. Kevin Lee, director of election finances, motion to approve the agenda? Elections Alberta. Mr. Nielsen: So moved. Mr. Westwater: Good morning. Drew Westwater, Deputy Chief The Chair: Moved by Mr. Nielsen that the agenda for the Electoral Officer. September 23, 2016, meeting of the Select Special Ethics and Mr. Resler: Good morning. Glen Resler, Chief Electoral Officer, Accountability Committee be adopted as distributed. All in favour? Elections Alberta. Any opposed? That is carried. Next we have the minutes from the September 19, 2016, meeting Ms Vance: Fiona Vance, legal counsel, Chief Electoral Officer. of the committee. Would someone like to approve the minutes? Mr. Cooper: Good morning. Nathan Cooper, the MLA for the Mr. Nielsen: So moved. outstanding constituency of Olds-Didsbury-Three Hills. The Chair: Moved by Mr. Nielsen that the minutes of the Mr. Nixon: Good morning. Jason Nixon, MLA for Rimbey-Rocky September 19, 2016, meeting of the Select Special Ethics and Mountain House-Sundre. Accountability Committee be adopted as circulated. All in favour? Any opposed? That is carried. Mr. van Dijken: Glenn van Dijken, MLA for Barrhead-Morinville- Under outstanding business, item (a), purported questions of Westlock. privilege arising from the September 19, 2016, meeting. Ms Jansen, Mr. Cyr: Scott Cyr, MLA, Bonnyville-Cold Lake. there was a purported question of privilege. I would like to turn to that and begin by stating that I have had the opportunity to receive Ms Jansen: Sandra Jansen, Calgary-North West. advice from counsel on this matter. The matter of continuing a committee meeting past the scheduled adjourned time is a matter of Dr. Starke: Good morning. Richard Starke, MLA for Vermilion- procedure, not a question of privilege. Lloydminster. The authorities are clear on this matter. Joseph Maingot, Parliamentary Privilege in Canada, second edition, at pages 13 and Mr. Clark: Good morning. Greg Clark, MLA for Calgary-Elbow. 14 states: Dr. Amato: Good morning. Sarah Amato, research officer. While it will be seen that the Member enjoys all the immunity necessary to perform his parliamentary work, this privilege or Dr. Massolin: Good morning. Philip Massolin, manager of right, such as freedom of speech, is nevertheless subject to the research and committee services. practices and procedures of the House. Thus allegations of breach of privilege by a Member . that amount to complaints about Mr. Roth: Good morning. Aaron Roth, committee clerk. procedures and practices in the House are by their very nature matters of order. The Chair: Is there anyone on the phone? EA-474 Ethics and Accountability September 23, 2016 Beauchesne’s Parliamentary Rules & Forms, sixth edition, polling of committee members from all parties to try to see conflicts paragraph 92 states that “a valid claim of privilege in respect to in schedules, those types of things? interference with a Member must relate to the Member’s parliamentary duties and not to the work the Member does in Ms Dean: That’s correct. relation to that Member’s constituency.” The Chair: Next we have Mr. Cooper’s purported question of Nevertheless, there was a ruling that occurred at the last meeting. privilege. I just want to mention that Dr. Swann is not at the Does the committee wish to pursue this matter? meeting, so we will have to defer this until the next meeting because Ms Jansen: I just want to make a comment first, Chair. Certainly, he cannot speak to it. the point I was trying to make when we had this discussion earlier Mr. Cooper: I was just going to say the same thing. in the week was that certainly for those of us who come from out of town and some of us who are single parents, if there’s the idea that The Chair: Okay. Thank you. we may go long, that’s something that we might want to discuss Now we are on to deliberations on the Election Finances and earlier in the day. Having a discussion at 4 o’clock, when the Contributions Disclosure Act. We did receive research that had meeting is supposed to end, about extending the committee when come from research services. Would research services mind just some of us have child care issues is problematic. That was one of opening with that, please? the points that I wanted to make. At that point I need to leave, and I can’t take part in the discussion anymore, and I’m on my way Dr. Massolin: Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, we’d be happy to. back. I’ll pass the baton to Dr. Amato for that. Now, one of my colleagues across the aisle made a comment Dr. Amato: I believe there are actually two documents, both about, “Why don’t you phone in?” which is ridiculous in the pertaining to third-party advertising. The one that I prepared does extreme, that I would have that opportunity at 4 o’clock in the three things. afternoon, not knowing that we were going to go long. I just wanted The first is that it reviews the current provisions of the act with to make that comment. respect to third-party advertising. Now, in the interest of, you know – obviously, there was a ruling Secondly, it answers a question that was posed to research on Monday that, in fact, it did touch on my privilege. I’m fine with services in terms of: what were the recommendations of Ontario’s that.