Tuesday Volume 593 3 March 2015 No. 117

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 3 March 2015

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2015 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 789 3 MARCH 2015 790

immediately after the Israeli elections are complete and House of Commons a new Government are formed, to address these grave challenges. Tuesday 3 March 2015 Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab): There is no legalistic or bureaucratic route to Palestinian statehood and it The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock cannot be imposed from outside. We will see a viable Palestinian state—the two-state solution that we all PRAYERS want—only as a result of proper negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians, which Britain should be doing everything it can to foster. We need to see the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] demilitarisation of Gaza, Iran no longer sending rockets to Hezbollah and Hamas, and Britain promoting organisations such as Project Cherish, the Parents Circle- Families Forum and Middle East Education Through Oral Answers to Questions Technology to bring together people on both sides who want peace.

Mr Ellwood: I am not sure that was a question, but I FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE certainly agree with the spirit of the hon. Gentleman’s comments. We want the Palestinian Authority to assert The Secretary of State was asked— itself in Gaza, not just have a technocratic Government. We want the Palestinians to end the political stalemate Palestine with Hamas, as he implies, but we also want Israel to allow the free movement of people, particularly the 1. Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP): What politicians, into Gaza, and to increase trade between criteria the Government will use to determine the right Gaza and the west bank. time for the UK to recognise Palestine as a state. [907827] Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The Minister is right—we have debated the subject a number of times. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign The House also voted by an overwhelming margin in and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr ): We favour of recognising a Palestinian state. Under what want to see the establishment of a sovereign and circumstances does he consider that the timing of such independent Palestinian state, living in peace and security an announcement should be at odds with the sovereign alongside Israel. We have been clear that the UK will will of the House? recognise a Palestinian state bilaterally at a time when we judge it best to help bring about peace. Mr Ellwood: As I said in my initial reply, this is not just a tick-box exercise. It is not something that we Ms Ritchie: I thank the Minister for his answer, but debate in Parliament and then move on to the next does he not see that constantly saying that the UK subject. There are real consequences of when we choose recognition of the state of Palestine should be conditional to recognise the Palestinian state. We want to be part of on negotiations between Israel and Palestine in effect that process and to advance it. When we can leverage gives Mr Netanyahu or his successor a veto over the positive change, we will do so. UK’s sovereign decision to recognise Palestine, especially as that Prime Minister is making a very divisive speech Libya in Washington today? How can this be right?

Mr Ellwood: Although I understand the hon. Lady’s 2. Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con): What recent passion—we have debated this matter in the House on a discussions he has had with his counterparts in North number of occasions—I hope she appreciates that such Africa on the political and security situation in Libya. recognition is not simply a tick-box exercise but a [907828] strategic tool, which will have consequences when implemented, and which is therefore best used at a time The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth when it will advance the process and leverage positive Affairs (Mr ): The political and security change. situation in Libya remains a concern. We call on all parties to agree to a ceasefire, to engage with the UN (Reigate) (Con): The previous Foreign dialogue process to find a lasting solution, and to unite Secretary said that we were in the last chance saloon for to defeat the Islamist extremism which is establishing a the two-state solution. If the Government wait long foothold in that country. I speak regularly to my Egyptian enough, there will be no opportunity for a two-state counterpart. I visited Algeria on 19 and 20 February for solution and the question will then be completely irrelevant. discussions which were dominated by the situation in Libya. Mr Ellwood: I am sad to say that I agree with my hon. Friend, as many of the ingredients that we witnessed in Jeremy Lefroy: I welcome the Egyptian Government’s the build-up to last summer’s conflict are beginning to response to the terrible murder of 21 Egyptian Coptic re-emerge. If we are to avoid another significant and Christians in Libya and especially the bridge building punishing conflict, all parties must come together shown by President Sisi and religious leaders to the 791 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 792

Coptic community. What more can the UK do to those negotiations. What is the view of Her Majesty’s support Egypt in its vital role in working for stability in Government? Do they support the Tobruk-based Libya? Government?

Mr Hammond: My hon. Friend is right that Egypt Mr Hammond: Our view is that both the Tobruk will play a vital role in the solution in Libya, as all regime and the Misratans, and indeed the regime in European countries, many of which are very concerned Tripoli, must attend the talks with the UN Secretary- about the situation there, and the United States recognise. General’s special representative on a no-preconditions Similarly, there are still significant challenges in the basis and on the terms he proposes in order to discuss human rights situation in Egypt. We were very pleased how they can form a Government of national unity of with the clear statement that President Sisi made on the some kind so that we can begin to rebuild Libya, which rights of religious minorities in Egypt. However, as with could be a prosperous and successful country, and one many other elements of the Egyptian constitution, we whose stability is vital to our own interests. now need to see that being delivered on the ground. Middle East Peace Process Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP): Following engagement with ourselves, the Prime Minister appointed the National Security Adviser to engage with the Libyan 3. Sir David Amess (Southend West) (Con): What authorities on reconciliation and finding ways forward recent assessment he has made of progress with the for compensation for victims of IRA terrorism that was middle east peace process. [907829] sponsored by the Gaddafi regime. Will the Foreign Secretary update the House on what progress the National Mr Hammond: I have to be candid with my hon. Security Adviser has made in that work? Friend: progress has stalled pending the Israeli general election on 17 March. The British Government strongly Mr Hammond: I regret to have to tell the right hon. supported US Secretary of State John Kerry’s efforts to Gentleman that the reality on the ground in Libya is reach a final status agreement and were disappointed that there is no authority to engage with. I am afraid that the parties did not make more progress in 2014. I that at the moment I can report no progress on those have discussed many times with Secretary Kerry, most measures. The urgent need now is to see a Government recently when we met in on 21 February, what of national unity created and for the Libyan people to the next steps will be. We will press the US to revive the deal collectively with the threat to their society that is initiative and all the parties to resume serious negotiations posed by the establishment of ISIL cells. Once we have as soon as possible after the Israeli elections, and I urge such an authority in place, we will of course re-engage them to be ready then to step up and show the bold with that agenda. political leadership that will be necessary to achieve peace. Sir (Kensington) (Ind): As the was one of the leading countries that helped Sir David Amess: I am glad to hear that my right hon. the Libyan people overthrow Colonel Gaddafi, do we Friend will join me in asking for renewed international not have both a political obligation and a political pressure on Hamas to disarm and renounce violence. interest to help all the democratic forces in Libya trying Does he agree that unless that happens it is difficult to to create a new, decent country? While I recognise that envisage a unified and prosperous Palestinian state existing the Government do indeed have a priority in that respect, alongside Israel? I urge my right hon. Friend to ensure that the British Government do all within their power—perhaps even Mr Hammond: My hon. Friend is right that for an more than they are doing at the moment—over the enduring solution Hamas must disarm and be prepared crucial weeks and months that will determine whether to accept Israel’s right to live in peace, but Israel must Libya does indeed become a moderate, secular force or also stop making illegal settlements in the Occupied continues to be a hotbed of anarchy and potential Palestinian Territories. We need to keep up the pressure terrorism. on both sides if we are to get a sustainable solution.

Mr Hammond: I agree with my right hon. and learned Sir Gerald Kaufman (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab): Friend that the next few weeks and months will be Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that one of the crucial for Libya. Would that it was as simple as getting most positive possibilities for advancing peace in the behind the democratic authority in Libya—it is not middle east would be the success of the international clear that there is a democratic authority behind which negotiations with Iran on its nuclear projects? Will he we can get. We need a coming together. I do not want to take this opportunity to make it clear that any attempt overplay the prospects, but the UN Secretary-General’s to disrupt those talks by the Israeli Prime Minister special representative, Bernardino León, is making some when he addresses the United States Congress later progress, and the Prime Minister’s envoy, Jonathan Powell, today would be bad for the whole of the middle east is also working hard. We will continue to engage, because and bad for Israel too? having a stable Government in Libya is vital to our security. Mr Hammond: My reading of the US Congress is that it probably does not need much encouragement to Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab): instinctively be very sceptical about the process of dialogue The Tobruk-based Government have agreed to return with Iran on the nuclear dossier. However, some small to the UN talks, but on the condition that they are progress is being made there, and I would very much recognised as the only authority that can take part in regret any attempts to destabilise or derail that process. 793 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 794

On the wider question, settling the Israel-Palestine issue We have a good track record on the delivery of our is the big roadblock to a more enduring peace in the aid pledges in respect of Gaza. A number of other middle east. countries have made very forward-leaning aid pledges but they have not yet been followed through. So there is Sir Richard Ottaway (Croydon South) (Con): Does a problem with money, but there is also a physical the Foreign Secretary think that peace will not be problem of being able to get materials into Gaza and forthcoming until Hamas renounces violence and can get works progressed. That is caused partly by the speak with a single voice? In Israel, we have seen the security situation in Sinai and the Egyptian response to emergence of a moderate centre ground. Does he think that, and partly by the situation between Israel and the that either condition is going to happen? Palestinians in Gaza. I do not think, honestly, that we are going to get much progress before the Israeli general Mr Hammond: I am going to be slightly careful about election, but as soon as that election is out of the way, the second part of my right hon. Friend’s question this has to be a major priority. because Israel is two weeks away from a general election, so I do not want to speculate about different parts of Falkland Islands the political spectrum. What is clear is that there needs to be a broad-based movement within Israel that seeks 4. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): Whether he peace, understands that trade-offs are required in order has had discussions with the Argentinian Government to achieve peace, and places the greatest premium on on the future of the Falkland Islands; and if he will getting an acknowledgement of Israel’s right to live make a statement. [907830] inside peaceful pre-’67 borders in perpetuity. The , Foreign and Commonwealth Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP): Is it true that Tony Office (Mr Hugo Swire): There have been no discussions Blair is still a so-called middle east peace envoy? What between the UK and Argentina on the future of the progress has he secured on the ground, and do the UK Falkland Islands during the course of this Government. Government still have confidence in his efforts? Any such discussions will take place only when the Falkland Islanders wish them to, and they have made it Mr Hammond: It is true that Tony Blair remains the clear that they do not. Quad envoy to the middle east. Mr Blair has made a large number of visits to the region; most recently he Michael Fabricant: My right hon. Friend will be has been in Gaza. He continues to engage, and I have no aware that the Argentinian Government have brought doubt that his role will be kept under constant review. out new bank notes showing the Falkland Islands as part of Argentina. I think that we have all received a letter from the Argentinian ambassador and a book, Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD): May I “Malvinas Matters”, complaining that there has not take my right hon. Friend back to the question of been any dialogue. May I reiterate what the Minister settlements, which it is accepted throughout this House has just said? We should not have any negotiations with are wholly contrary to international law? More to the Argentina on sovereignty until the Falkland Islanders point, the continual encroachment by the Israeli want to leave the United Kingdom. Government makes it impossible for East Jerusalem to become the capital of a Palestinian state. Can he conceive Mr Swire: I am aware that a number of right hon. of any circumstances where a leader of the Palestinians and hon. Members have received that book, which would be able to accept a peace arrangement based on seeks to discredit the Falkland Islanders’ right to their giving up East Jerusalem? own future. It ignores the inconvenient truth that some people on the islands can trace their Falklands ancestry Mr Hammond: I think that is highly unlikely. As my back through nine generations, which is longer than the right hon. and learned Friend knows, the Government’s current borders of Argentina have existed. On the issue position is that that should not be the case. I have said of the 50 peso bank note, we cannot stop the Argentinian in this House before and I will say again that settlements Government’s doing these stunts. It is worth a whopping are just buildings. Buildings can be built and buildings £3.72, according to today’s exchange rate—I think it can be removed, and we must not allow illegal building probably has the equivalent political value. to stand in the way of a sustainable solution if it can otherwise be found. Patagonia (Welsh Community)

Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op): I 5. David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con): What am sure that the Foreign Secretary agrees that the plans officials of his Department in Argentina have to middle east peace process will be more difficult to mark the 150th anniversary of the founding of the restart if reconstruction in Gaza continues to proceed Welsh community in Patagonia. [907831] as slowly as it is currently. What further efforts, if any, will Ministers be making to speed up the delivery of The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth aid, including British aid, that was promised by the Office (Mr Hugo Swire): Our embassy in Buenos Aires, international community at the Cairo conference, before in co-ordination with the British Council in Argentina they hand over the challenge to this Front Bench on and Wales, will facilitate official visits to Argentina for 8May? the celebrations in July to mark the 150th anniversary of the arrival of Welsh settlers in Patagonia. It will also Mr Hammond: If I may say so, I think that the hon. work hard to promote Wales in Argentina through Gentleman is getting a little bit ahead of himself there. cultural and other events. 795 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 796

David T. C. Davies: The Minister will surely be aware continue to argue for a strong and united response to that the 25,000 Welsh speakers in Argentina have a very Russia’s actions until such time as we see full compliance special place in the hearts of everyone living in Wales. on the ground. Does he agree that this important anniversary— notwithstanding other matters that, with amazing timing, Mr Bain: I am sure that the House will want to take have just been raised—perhaps offers the opportunity this opportunity to send its condolences to the friends to rebuild a more friendly relationship? Will he come to and supporters of Boris Nemtsov, following his horrific a photographic exhibition on the Welsh colonies in murder last weekend. Argentina, which I hope to organise in the House later this year if all kinds of other events allow? The death toll in eastern Ukraine has reached 6,000 according to the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. It also detects an escalation in Mr Swire: I would be delighted to continue in this hostilities, despite the signing of the ceasefire agreement. role after the May election, but that is up to the Prime Does the Secretary of State agree that the EU standing Minister. We should all celebrate the great story of the together on tougher sanctions is the only way we can arrival of 153 Welsh settlers in Chubut in 1865. I am make it clear to President Putin that Russia’s actions in pleased that the First Minister of Wales will go to Ukraine are unacceptable? Argentina, and I am delighted that the National Youth Choir of Wales, the London Welsh choir and the National Orchestra of Wales will all visit Patagonia this year. I Mr Hammond: I of course share the hon. Gentleman’s hope that they will concentrate on Welsh relations with view on the appalling murder of Nemtsov in Moscow. Argentina, rather than anything else. The hon. Gentleman asked about stepping up sanctions in response to Russia’s failure to comply with Minsk. Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) The Minsk agenda runs until the end of this year, so it (PC): The history of the Welsh settlement in Patagonia will not be until the end of December that Ukraine will is an incredible story of tenacity, innovation, fortitude regain control of its border with Russia, even if all the and triumph over adversity, with a thriving Welsh-language milestones are complied with. We believe that the tier 3 community in Chubut province today. Will the Minister sanctions should be extended to last until the end of the ensure that the FCO Argentine mission has an obligation year, so that we have a tool with which to ensure to strengthen relations between Patagonia and Wales? compliance. We can always suspend or partially suspend the sanctions if the milestones are being met, but we need to have the tool in place right the way through the Mr Swire: We have absolutely no problem with the programme. people of Argentina. We enjoy extraordinarily good relations with them, and the Welsh factor is enormously important. When the Welsh Affairs Committee visited Roger Williams: Many of my constituents have asked last year, it was presented with a declaration on the me why, when President Hollande and Chancellor Merkel Falklands, and I expect similar stunts this year. I hope met Putin, there was no senior British political presence that right hon. and hon. Members and the Argentinians or representation. When will Britain play its full part in will remember that the members of the Welsh community protecting the sovereign nations of Europe? chose to emigrate and have become Argentine citizens by choice. By comparison, the Falkland Islanders have Mr Hammond: I do not recognise the premise of the exercised their own right of self-determination and, hon. Gentleman’s question. We are playing our part. frankly, it is hypocritical for Argentina selectively to While Mrs Merkel and President Hollande have done a ignore that. good job of negotiating the Minsk implementation agreement under the Normandy process, which always involved the four countries of Germany, France, Ukraine Ukraine and Russia, our role has been, is and will remain to stiffen the resolve of all 28 EU members to be united 6. Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): and aligned with the United States in deploying what What assessment he has made of the success of recent has proved to be a powerful sanctions weapon. diplomatic initiatives relating to peace and security in eastern Ukraine. [907832] Mr (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab): I certainly echo the sentiment of the 10. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): Foreign Secretary’s final remarks. At this difficult and What steps his Department is taking to ensure a lasting dangerous moment, it is vital that Europe and NATO ceasefire between Russia and Ukraine. [907836] stand united in ensuring that the Minsk agreement is implemented in full. However, may I bring him back to The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth his remarks about tier 3 sanctions? Does he believe that Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): We support all diplomatic new EU restrictive measures should be on the table at efforts that aim to bring about a peaceful resolution to the next European Council meeting, as opposed simply the crisis in Ukraine. Since the latest Minsk agreement to the roll-over and extension of existing measures that was signed on 12 February, Russian-backed separatists he described in his answer? have seized control of the strategically important town of Debaltseve. It is not yet clear that Russia has any Mr Hammond: The European Commission has been intention of honouring the commitments it made in tasked to look at a menu of possible additional measures Minsk. I held talks with Secretary Kerry last weekend, that could be taken. As I have indicated, I think that we and I will discuss Ukraine with EU Foreign Ministers need two tools. We need an extension of the existing on Friday in Riga. In all such discussions, we will tier 3 measures through to the end of December. Putin 797 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 798 has been telling oligarchs around Moscow that the we have to get people out of those buildings, and that is sanctions will be over by the end of July: “Just hold the big issue. May I push the Minister a little further? your breath and it’ll all be fine.” We need to show him There are a number of impending demolitions of villages that that will not be the case. Alongside that, we need a to make way for Israeli settlements. Will the Minister credible set of options that we can implement immediately discuss that issue with the Israeli Government, urge if there is a failure to comply with milestones in the them to reconsider the upcoming evictions and demolitions Minsk implementation agreement or a serious further due for next month, and instead consider villages co-existing outbreak of conflict in the region. side by side in the spirit of peace?

Mr Alexander: I welcome the Foreign Secretary’s Mr Ellwood: I agree with the hon. Gentleman, but the answer, but let me return to the appalling murder of displacement issues in southern Israel, and the potential Boris Nemtsov on Saturday in Moscow, to which he has demolition of the Umm al-Hiran villages, are not in the referred. Clearly, the priority needs to be a thorough occupied Palestinian territories but in green line Israel. and impartial investigation into the murder. President That is a slightly separate debate or concern—if I can Putin has a personal responsibility to show that the put it that way—to the illegal settlements that have been Russian authorities are willing and able to identify put forward, but nevertheless we are concerned and are Mr Nemtsov’s killers and to bring them to justice. Will having a dialogue with Israel about that. the Foreign Secretary confirm whether he has raised this matter with the Russian authorities, and give his Mr Slaughter: I welcome the Minister’s words, but assessment of the steps that have been taken by the may I urge on him a sense of urgency and purpose— Russian authorities to begin investigating the case? urgency because the demolition order for Umm al-Hiran may be given in two weeks’ time, and purpose in the Mr Hammond: We have heard a lot of noise from sense that action is needed? Will he ask the British Moscow, but we have not yet seen any serious action. ambassador to visit the village, and will he invoke the The omens are not promising. I heard just this morning EU-Israeli association agreement that makes favourable that some countries’ intended high-level delegations to trade relations dependent on Israel’s respect for human the funeral have not been able to obtain Russian visas. rights? That probably tells us all we need to know. Mr Ellwood: As I clarified, that is a different matter Mr (Christchurch) (Con): The to the debate about the occupied Palestinian territories, intransigence of the Russians is exemplified by the fact but nevertheless we want a robust planning process that that they still hold in custody two Members of the adequately addresses the needs of the Bedouin communities. Ukrainian Parliament, both of whom are members of We must keep pushing for that dialogue. the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD): Will the Minister When will my right hon. Friend get tough and insist on confirm that the displacement of the Bedouin constitutes expelling Russia from the Parliamentary Assembly and ethnic cleansing? the Council of Europe itself? Mr Ellwood: Again, I reiterate the difference between Mr Hammond: We do not have plans to take that step the two issues: one concerns the illegal settlements, and at this stage, but I assure my hon. Friend that we raise the other is a planning matter that we have raised the matter regularly—indeed, the Minister for Europe concerns about. I visited the E1 area, which is where raised it with the Russian ambassador only last week. I much of the attention is currently focused, and we have am going to Kiev later this week, and we will continue discouraged the growth of settlements in that area. to work with the Ukrainians to try to secure the release Were the plans to go ahead, we would have a break of those two Ukrainians, as well as the Estonian border between the Hebron and Bethlehem conurbations, and guard who was captured by the Russians six months ago. that would effectively end the middle east peace process. Bedouin Villages Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Is the displacement of the Bedouin from the E1 area contrary to international 7. Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): humanitarian law—yes or no? What reports he has received on displacement of Bedouin in Southern Israel. [907833] Mr Ellwood: It is contrary to international law in that sense, and any nation has obligations when dealing with 9. Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): What occupied territories and their occupants. We are representations he has made on the potential demolition discouraging Israel from further build, but the land of the village of Umm al-Hiran in Negev. [907835] swaps will be integral to any future long-term peace agreement. That is why we are in this quagmire. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood): We Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah are deeply concerned about proposals to demolish Bedouin villages. We are monitoring the situation closely, including 8. (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): talking regularly to organisations that work with those What recent assessment he has made of the extent of communities. Iran’s financial and material support for Hamas and Hezbollah. [907834] Mr Cunningham: In an earlier answer to an Opposition Member, the Foreign Secretary said that we were talking The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign only about buildings in relation to the peace process. He and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood): We forgot to say that in order to facilitate the peace process, have serious concerns about Iran’s support for militant 799 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 800 groups, including Hezbollah and Hamas. That includes delivering for Britain. We need to fix that problem, and financial resources and training, as well as the supply of only the Conservatives have a clear plan to do so. We military equipment. will negotiate a new settlement with our EU neighbours, and one that works for Britain. We will then put that Rehman Chishti: I thank the Minister for that answer. new settlement to the in an in/out referendum As part of our talks with Iran on its nuclear programme, before the end of 2017. Only a Conservative Government will there be a specific condition on Iran to stop sponsoring will make that commitment. Labour and the Liberal and harbouring terrorism, whether that is supporting Democrats do not want change, and UKIP cannot the Houthis in Yemen, interfering in Syria, interfering deliver it. in Iraq with its militias against the Sunnis, or supporting Hezbollah, to ensure that we have a long-term solution, Mrs Gillan: The Conservative party is the only sane not a short-term fix? and significant party to guarantee, following a renegotiation, an in/out referendum on our membership of the EU. Mr Ellwood: Discussions around a nuclear solution How many countries has the Foreign Secretary visited are separate to those other matters, but my hon. Friend to discuss that renegotiation, what levels of engagement is right to raise the issue. Iran is having a destabilising has he had, and is there a positive desire for change in effect in the region, and that is a violation of UN other states that matches ours? resolution 1747 which makes illegal the export of weapon systems and armaments from Iran. Mr Speaker: I am grateful for the right hon. Lady’s three questions. The Foreign Secretary is a specialist in Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op): providing a pithy answer on a postcard. Iran arms Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza, and it now threatens to arm Palestinians on the west Mr Philip Hammond: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for bank who currently support President Abbas. In view that vote of confidence. of the Minister’s previous reply, what specific representations have the Government made to the United Nations I have currently visited 23 of our partners in the about that flagrant breach of UN resolutions? European Union. In a nutshell, there is a very strong view that all member states want Britain to remain in Mr Ellwood: The hon. Lady will be aware that the the EU, an understanding that that can happen only if Prime Minister had his first meeting with the Prime there is significant change in the EU, and a clear willingness Minister of Iran at the United Nations General Assembly to engage with us, particularly on our demands for and very much put those points down. She is right that improved competitiveness in the EU, which all member Iran must question its role in the region. It must ask states want. itself whether it wants to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. We have spoken about Hamas and 19. [907846] Sir Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): Hezbollah. Hezbollah is effectively propping up the The Conservative manifesto at the last general election Assad regime, because he is losing the officer class, states: which is depleted because of the war. “European countries need to work together to boost global economic growth, fight global poverty, and combat global climate Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): Next change. The European Union has a crucial part to play…A week, as chair of the British Group of the Inter- Conservative government will play an active and energetic role in Parliamentary Union, I will be welcoming the first the European Union to advance these causes.” delegation of Iranian parliamentarians to visit this country Will that be the Conservative party’s policy in the next for some time. Will my hon. Friend welcome that Parliament? development? He knows not only that the House will give full and appropriate courtesy to parliamentarians Mr Philip Hammond: That is exactly what we are from Iran, but that it will take the opportunity to doing. The hon. Gentleman seems to subscribe to the engage them in the full and frank discussion of matters view of the world in which Britain sits isolated on between us, which is the only basis on which the edge. We are a major player in Europe. We have the parliamentarians can build a relationship. second largest economy in Europe. We are leading the way in so many areas within the European Union. Mr Ellwood: My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have to seize this opportunity to shape the European It is through full and frank engagement that we can get Union in a way that works for Britain. It went off the our message across. Dialogue with Iran has increased, rails somewhere over the past 20 years, and we must but we must ensure that they are not only talking the take this opportunity of reform and renegotiation to talk, but that their actions speak as loud as their words. get it back on the rails. Crucially, we must then let the British people have the final say on whether the package EU Membership (Renegotiation) we have negotiated is good enough or not.

11. Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) 16. [907843] Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con): (Con): What assessment he has made of the level of Like you, Mr Speaker, I have complete confidence in public demand for a renegotiated settlement between the Foreign Secretary. I am sure he has sensed not only the UK and the EU. [907837] that there is increased public demand for renegotiation, but that there is absolutely no movement in public The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth demand for that referendum. Is that his assessment, Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): I assess that mainstream and will he commit to a referendum prior to the end opinion in the UK is that the EU is not currently of 2017? 801 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 802

Mr Philip Hammond: I reiterate the commitment that The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth the Prime Minister has already made that there will be a Office (Mr Hugo Swire): We have regularly raised this referendum by the end of 2017 if there is a Conservative case at the most senior levels of Government, and have Government. There is virtually no movement in polling pressed for the legal process to be resolved as soon as evidence in the demand for a referendum. I will say possible. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary something else to my hon. Friend: by creating the will be raising the issue yet again when he visits India referendum we have—I will use the phrase again—lit a next week. Last month, following requests from three of fire under our partners in Europe. They now know that the men, we issued emergency travel documents. The they have to deliver change that is substantive and men will still require permission from the Indian authorities meaningful; not some backroom political deal, but before they are able to leave the country. something that will satisfy the British people in a referendum. That is what is driving the debate. Mr Reid: I thank the Minister for that answer, but it is now eight months since an Indian court quashed the Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab): charges against my constituent Billy Irving. He, and the It is clear that the European Union needs to reform to other UK citizens, are still unable to leave India because create more growth, more jobs and more competitiveness, the legal process has ground to a halt. Will the Foreign so what is the Minister’s reaction to the warning issued Office redouble its efforts to persuade the Indian authorities this morning from the executive vice-president of Ford, to conclude the legal process quickly and get these men Mr Jim Farley, who said, on the prospects of “”, home? “We really hope that doesn’t happen and we believe that the UK being part of the EU is critical for business”? Mr Swire: The hon. Gentleman knows that we have Why does the Conservative party call for the march of raised this again and again at the highest possible level. the makers in one breath, yet pursue a policy that poses Indeed, I am meeting him, and other Members who a direct threat to manufacturing jobs, manufacturing have been assiduous in raising this with us, in the next investment and trade? Is it that the Foreign Secretary couple of days to update him. What we cannot do, does not see the contradiction, or is it instead a complete however, is simply ignore the Indian judicial process or and utter absence of leadership when it comes to the interfere with it. That is not to say that we do not share European Union? hon. Members’ frustrations about the pace of progress.

Mr Philip Hammond: It is that we need to resolve this Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab): These six British soldiers issue. Of course, most people in this country recognise all fought for the British Army on the front. They feel the value of the single market to Britain’s economy, but utterly betrayed by the Government because of what that comes at a price and it is a price we pay in loss of they see as a lack of assistance in their hour of need. sovereignty and loss of control over many of our own They were all acquitted and freed on 10 July last year. affairs, including some that we do not need to lose We must be able to do something to get these people control of. The debate will be on the correct balance home. We must redouble our efforts. between what is done at national level and what is done at European level, on the accountability of the European Mr Swire: My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister Union institutions to the people of the European Union, raised this with Prime Minister Modi in November and on the European Union’s ability to drive economic 2014. The Deputy Prime Minister did so on his visit to growth across all our economies. That is what people in India in August, as did the Foreign Secretary when he this country want resolved, and by resolving it we will met his counterpart in October. I have done so numerous create a more certain climate for business in the future. times at ministerial level and with the high commissioner Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): The here, and most recently British officials in Delhi raised Foreign Secretary has kindly shared with us that he has concerns with the Ministry of External Affairs on 16 and spoken to 23 other member states and that they all 23 February. Members have been right to raise this support the United Kingdom’s remaining in the European again and again and we have kept Members informed. Union. Can he tell us whether he supports Britain This has taken up a huge amount of time, but, in the remaining in the European Union? Does he understand management of expectation, I say again to the hon. the damage that his policy is doing to British business Gentleman—I say it slowly and clearly—that we cannot and British interests in order to maintain a temporary ignore the Indian judicial process. We are dealing with a peace in his party? sovereign country, but we share the frustrations about the pace of progress. Mr Philip Hammond: What would cause continuing UN Human Rights Council damage to British industry is not resolving this issue once and for all. The only way to do that is to have a frank and open discussion about the problems in the 13. Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland European Union, to renegotiate the package and to put South) (Lab): What his priorities are for the 28th session it to the British people—and then we have settled it for a of the UN Human Rights Council in March 2015. generation. [907840] MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens) The Minister for Europe (Mr ): Our priorities include the renewal of UN mandates on Syria, 12. Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): What steps Burma and Iran, increasing international attention on he is taking to secure the return of the UK citizens who Libya, Ukraine and the Democratic People’s Republic were aboard the MV Seaman Guard Ohio when she of Korea, responding to UN reports on Gaza and ISIL was detained by the Indian authorities. [907838] activity in Iraq, and thematic resolutions on freedom of 803 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 804 religion or belief, combating religious intolerance, and conferences on the preventing sexual violence initiative, privacy. My right hon. and noble Friend Baroness Anelay cyber-security and Somalia, and hosting successful summits is representing us at the session. of NATO and the G8.

Bridget Phillipson: I am grateful to the Minister for Mark Pawsey: My constituents certainly recognise his answer, but does he not see that Government attempts the increased standing of this country across the world to undermine the European convention on human rights under this Government. The Government have rightly damage our international reputation on this issue and made a priority of ending the practice of rape and diminish our influence on human rights? sexual conflict as a tactic of war and addressing the shameful failure to bring perpetrators to justice. Will the Minister update us on this important initiative? Mr Lidington: No, and if the hon. Lady looks at our record, particularly when this Government held the Mr Lidington: It is a cause of pride for this Government chairmanship of the Council of Europe, she will see and this country that the FCO, particularly under the that, on the contrary, we upheld the standards and leadership of my right hon. Friend the Leader of the values embodied in the convention and successfully House, has for the first time got the international community negotiated sensible, pragmatic reforms to the way in to take seriously the scandal of the sexual abuse during which the convention is implemented that are in the war and conflict of countless numbers of women and, interests of all states. let us not forget, many men as well. We are now seeing the fruits of that, in the way in which countries such as 22. [907849] Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): Nepal, Bosnia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo What does the Minister think this session’s high-level and Kosovo are taking up the challenge to put right the panel on the death penalty can achieve, particularly wrongs of the past and amend their practices for the when so many Human Rights Council members use the future. death penalty? Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab): When this question Mr Lidington: It is true, of course, that many of the was handed out, I was not sure that the Government members of the Human Rights Council, who have been would be aware that US General Ray Odierno would elected by the membership of the United Nations generally, express concern about our defence capability, following still have the death penalty. The United Kingdom, both Government cuts, or that the British General Sir Richard at the UN Human Rights Council and in our bilateral Shirreff would describe the Prime Minister as “a bit and multilateral relationships of all kinds, continues to player” in the Ukraine crisis. When will the Minister stress that we regard the death penalty as completely recognise how much this Government have marginalised unacceptable. Britain? Mr Lidington: I wish the right hon. Gentleman could Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab): Will the talk to the leaders of countries such as Poland, Latvia, Minister use the opportunity of the Human Rights Lithuania and Estonia, who have been grateful for the Council to raise the human rights crisis in central resolute political leadership this Government have given, America, in particular in Mexico? Will he also raise and for the very practical contribution we have made to these matters with President Peña Nieto during his visit Baltic air policing and NATO training exercises to and tie any future trade developments with Mexico to defend their security. The—[Interruption.] improvements in its human rights record and dealing with those who killed, probably, the 43 students—but Mr Speaker: I think the right hon. Gentleman is in also thousands of others who have died—and the forces the middle of his sentence. that have acted with impunity in that country? Mr Lidington: I think that the right hon. Gentleman Mr Lidington: The hon. Gentleman will recall from should reflect on the record of his Government and the the recent debate in Westminster Hall, in which he and I state of decay in which they left the Foreign Office after spoke, that we have a strong relationship with Mexico. their stewardship. We use that to seek improvements to Mexico’s human rights record and to give Mexico practical help in trying Topical Questions to improve its judicial and police systems in particular. That work will continue. T1. [907817] Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. British Influence in the World The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): This week, we are delighted 14. Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): What steps the to welcome the President of Mexico and Senora Rivera Government have taken since 2010 to increase British on their state visit to the United Kingdom. Indeed, influence around the world. [907841] right about now, they should be being received by Her Majesty on Horse Guards parade. The UK and Mexico The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): Despite enjoy an excellent bilateral relationship, and we look the very tight spending environment, this Government forward to broadening and deepening that partnership have since 2010 opened nine new diplomatic missions in this week. emerging countries and fast-growing economies and My three key priorities continue to be Russia and upgraded a further six posts. We have opened an FCO Ukraine, the struggle against violent Islamist extremism language centre and a diplomatic academy, and shaped and our plans for the reform of the European Union. the international agenda, including through groundbreaking Later this week, I will visit Ukraine to discuss the 805 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 806 situation on the ground and to assess implementation and ask him to go to Burma and personally to negotiate of the latest Minsk agreement. I will then travel to unrestricted humanitarian access for the Rohingya in Warsaw and on to Riga to meet my EU counterparts the Rakhine state? over the weekend. Mr Swire: Ban Ki-moon chairs a Friends of Myanmar Henry Smith: As part of the Mexican state visit, it is meeting in New York, which I have attended. He is fully good to see the flags of the British overseas territories aware of what is going on in Burma. We remain extremely flying in Parliament square today. I am encouraged to concerned about the plight of Rohingya, not least the hear that London and Madrid are talking about better white card issue that has just emerged, and we continue relations over Gibraltar. I seek assurances from my to lobby the Government in Burma on that basis. right hon. Friend, however, that there will never be any discussions over the future of Gibraltar’s sovereignty so T6. [907822] CharlotteLeslie(BristolNorthWest)(Con): long as the people of Gibraltar wish to remain loyal to The ongoing crisis in Ukraine and our relationship with this country. Russia have real implications for the United Kingdom’s energy security. Many might say that, had energy security Mr Hammond: That is our position, and I confirm been a more key component of strategic foreign policy that it will remain our position so long as there is a for successive European Union Governments, we might Conservative Government. now have more room for manoeuvre with Putin. Can the Foreign Secretary assure us that full consideration of our long-term energy security is currently at the Mr Douglas Alexander (Paisley and Renfrewshire forefront of, and central to, our response to the evolving South) (Lab): Last year, 2014, was dominated by news situation in Ukraine? of horrendous violence against those of different faiths, from Boko Haram abducting Christian girls in Nigeria to the attacks by ISIL against Christians, Yazidis and Mr Philip Hammond: Yes, it is a key agenda item. I other religious minorities within Iraq. In the light of can reassure my hon. Friend that the United Kingdom those developments, does the Foreign Secretary agree is in a much better energy security position than many that a global envoy for religious freedom, reporting to of our European Union partners. However, as our the Foreign Secretary should be appointed? If this non-military response to Russia essentially depends on Government choose to act, we will support them; if EU unity, we often find that we are as weak as the they do not, a Labour Government will act. weakest link in that chain. There is an urgent need to ensure that the European Union as a whole improves its energy security over the coming years, both for reasons Mr Hammond: Our general approach is to try to get of competitiveness and for the sake of our own national things done using the mechanisms we have. We have an security. extensive diplomatic network around the world, and we have large amounts of soft power at our disposal, T3. [907819] Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) including the leverage that our large aid budget gives us. (Lab): What work will the Foreign Secretary do with I do not think simply creating new posts and ticking a his international counterparts to build on the progress box delivers in the way the right hon. Gentleman and that was made at the United Nations climate change the previous Government seem to think it will. conference in Lima last December? What role does he think that the Commonwealth has in that regard, given T4. [907820] (Winchester) (Con): The the vulnerability of a number of small island states? Minister will know that the UN has delayed by six months its report on human rights in Sri Lanka. A Mr Swire: We are strongly committed to seeing a number of Sri Lankan constituents in my constituency successful outcome to this year’s Paris meeting, and we are waiting for this report and are actively contacting played a leading role in the EU discussions on securing their MP about it. Will the Minister push for the urgent a forward-looking EU position. We will use our release of this document, and will he please update us? Commonwealth membership and our bilateral relationship with the Commonwealth countries to reach out to the The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth nations to which the hon. Gentleman refers, so that we Office (Mr Hugo Swire): We have worked closely. I have can seek the ambitious global agreement that I think been to Sri Lanka and met the new President, the new Members on both sides of the House would like to see. Foreign Minister and the new Prime Minister, and the new Foreign Minister has been here. We recognise the T9. [907826] Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) concern of all the victims. We remain firmly committed (Con): There is another country in Europe that has to the Geneva process. This will not be an indefinite been occupied and divided for not just one year, but 40. deferral; the report is due by September. The extra time What priority are the Government giving to solving the recognises the changed political context in Sri Lanka, Cyprus problem? and it will allow the new Government to deliver on their commitment to engage with the high commissioner and The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington): We establish their own credible accountancy process. continue to give strong support to the efforts of the United Nations envoy, Espen Barth Eide, to bring the T2. [907818] Yasmin Qureshi (Bolton South East) (Lab): two communities in Cyprus together. A settlement would The persecution of the Rohingya by the Burmese be in the interests of all communities there. I was very Government still continues, and the appalling humanitarian pleased that yesterday the Foreign Office re-hosted a situation they, and especially the refugees, face continues, meeting at which the chambers of commerce of both too. Will the Foreign Secretary speak to Ban Ki-moon Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities were represented 807 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 808 by their presidents, both of whom spoke eloquently and to abide by the principles of free movement. The about the way in which a settlement would increase the Swiss have sought unilaterally to change that arrangement prosperity of everyone on the island. and they have been firmly rebuffed by the EU.

T5. [907821] (Nottingham South) T8. [907825] Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab): There is huge frustration among my many (Lab): Does the Secretary of State agree with his fellow constituents who have roots and family ties in the Conservative and counterpart in Norway Vidar disputed territory of Kashmir. Little progress has been Helgesen that with the single market needing bold made for decades, and the region still suffers as a result leadership for its completion and with Europe facing of militarisation, violence and human rights abuses. its biggest security crisis since the cold war, it would be What recent discussions has the Secretary of State had a disaster for Britain to sleepwalk out of the EU? with India and Pakistan, and what hopes has he for a better future for Kashmir in which account will be Mr Lidington: I had another very good meeting with taken of the views of Kashmiri people? Vidar Helgesen when he was in London last week, and he is quite open in saying, as my right hon. Friend the Mr Swire: My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary Foreign Secretary has just said to the House, that raised the issue with Nawaz Sharif when he was here Norway has access to the single market but has to recently, and will raise it again when he travels to India. contribute to the EU budget, implement EU law and We are encouraged to note that some talks appear to be accept freedom of movement without any say in how taking place between India and Pakistan, because we those decisions are made, which is why my view is that know how much concern there is throughout the country. this country is better off in a reformed EU, rather than adopting the kind of status Norway has. Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con): Given our admission that we were unsighted over Russia and Sir Hugh Robertson (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con): Crimea, and given that we were short of Arabists following Is the Foreign Secretary able to update the House on the Arab spring, is there not a case for spending more any progress in the Syrian peace talks and in particular, on our foreign policy capabilities? Would that not only if it remains the Government’s ambition to remove ensure that we were better sighted, but reduce costs in President Assad, what progress we have made in building the longer term because we would be able to avoid up an alternative Government capable of taking on IS? making further mistakes? Mr Philip Hammond: I have to tell my right hon. Mr Lidington: The Foreign Office makes a huge Friend candidly that the co-ordination between the effort, in difficult fiscal times, to focus our resources on civilian Syrian opposition and the moderate armed key elements of policy analysis and capability, including opposition is still disappointing. It is one of the areas those involving the middle east and Russia, which, as on which we and our allies are working. We are committed my hon. Friend suggests, are particularly important. to taking part in the programme of training and equipping About 170 of our offices are now registered as having members of the moderate Syrian opposition outside ability in Arabic, and a similar number are registered as Syria, and that programme is beginning to gather pace having ability in Russian. now.

T7. [907824] Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Was it the UK We know that 163 Palestinian children are being held in that first offered, or was it Ukraine that first requested, Israeli military detention, and that many are being held the presence of British military advisers, and can the inside Israel in direct violation of the fourth Geneva Foreign Secretary assure us that their presence is more convention. What representations is the Secretary of likely to lead to a peaceful settlement, rather than an State making to the Israeli authorities with a view to escalation of the process? ending that brutal aspect of the illegal occupation? Mr Lidington: There has been a discussion between Mr Philip Hammond: We routinely make representations the Ukrainian Government and ourselves and a number to the Israelis on all aspects of illegal conduct—of of other European Governments and the United States which that is just one example—and we will continue to about various types of assistance, including non-lethal do so. military assistance, and there was agreement among those different allied Governments to supply help to Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): As Ukraine. We think that the training will enable the the Government prepare for renegotiating the European Ukrainian army to operate more effectively than it has treaties, will they give their full support to the Swiss in been able to do up until now, and that that offer of their efforts to change their terms of free movement of training would have been justified irrespective of the people as a sign of their sincerity and a symbol that free Russian intervention in the east. movement of people is not an unchallengeable part of the European state? Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): Recent reports emerging from Iran say the regime has been secretly Mr Hammond: As everybody knows, Switzerland is enriching uranium since 2008 at an underground plant outside the European Union and has negotiated terms in suburban Tehran named as Lavizan-3. What assessment for access to the single European market, as has Norway, has the Foreign Secretary made of this concerning but those terms require the Swiss and Norwegians to news, and does he agree that no deal should be signed accept wholesale the body of EU law without having with Iran until the International Atomic Energy Agency any say in the making of it, to contribute financially has unfettered access to all the nuclear programme? 809 Oral Answers3 MARCH 2015 Oral Answers 810

Mr Philip Hammond: My hon. Friend is right that Mr Speaker: Order. Foreign Office questions are a this is a new piece of information. We have no corroboration box office hit, and demand always exceeds supply. Last of that report at the moment, but he is absolutely right but not least, I call Mr Andrew Stephenson. that we will need to look into it and be clear before we reach any conclusion with Iran in the nuclear negotiations. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Pendle is home to Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The Minister, the a number of Pakistani Christian families, whose concerns hon. Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), I raise in the House. Given our long-standing cultural earlier said that he did not feel it was right to do and economic ties, and the support that we provide anything about the Israel-Palestine situation until after to Pakistan via the Department for International the Israeli election, yet given that none of the major Development, what more can my ministerial colleagues parties in that election is committed to withdrawal from do to ensure religious freedom and tolerance there? the occupied territories, is not now the time to say that Britain intends to recognise Palestine? The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Mr Hammond: If only it were that simple. I understand and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood): My that the hon. Lady’s point is well made, but I can tell her hon. Friend raises an important issue. The Pakistani exactly what any such statements now will do: they will diaspora in this country is a large one and we have a play to the hard right in the Israeli elections. That will very strong relationship with Pakistan, but we are concerned not make a settlement more likely; it will make it less about the misuse of blasphemy laws there. I have raised likely. the issue with the Prime Minister and through the parliamentary delegation that went to Pakistan only Several hon. Members rose— last week. 811 3 MARCH 2015 812

ROYAL ASSENT Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire) Mr Speaker: I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that Her Majesty has 12.35 pm signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts: Mr Andrew Smith (Oxford East) (Lab) (Urgent Pension Schemes Act 2015 Question): To ask the Secretary of State if she will make a statement on the serious case review into child sexual Serious Crime Act 2015. exploitation in Oxfordshire. The Secretary of State for Education (): I thank the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) for his question. No child should have to suffer what the victims of child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire have suffered. The serious case review published today by Oxfordshire’s local safeguarding children board is an indictment of the failure of front-line workers to protect extremely vulnerable young people over a number of years. Reading the details of what happened to them has been truly sickening. The serious case review makes it clear that numerous opportunities to intervene to protect those girls were missed, as police and social workers failed to look beyond what they saw as troubled teenagers to the frightened child within. I welcome the publication of the serious case review. It is only by publishing such in-depth accounts of what happened, and what went wrong and why, that children’s social care systems locally and nationally can address the failings that have betrayed some of our most vulnerable children. That is why this Government have insisted that serious case reviews be published, and in full. The children’s Minister, the Under-Secretary of State for Education, my hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mr Timpson), has also written today, with Ministers from the Home Office and the Department of Health, to the Oxfordshire safeguarding children board requesting a further assessment of the progress being made, and we will send an expert in child sexual exploitation to support the board this month. Sadly, Oxfordshire was not alone in failing to address the dangers of child sexual exploitation. We now know from Professor Alexis Jay’s and Louise Casey’s reports into and the report by the hon. Member for Stockport (Ann Coffey) in Manchester that child sexual exploitation has been a scourge in many communities around the country.This Government have been determined to do everything within their power to tackle child sexual exploitation, and that is why we are today publishing an action plan setting out the action we have already taken to strengthen our approach to safeguarding children from sexual exploitation, along with the further steps that we think are necessary to address the culture of denial; improve joint working; stop offenders; support victims; and strengthen accountability and leadership. We are setting up a national centre of expertise into tackling child sexual exploitation, to support local areas around the country, and there will be a new whistleblowing portal so that anyone can report their concerns. We have also prioritised child sexual exploitation as a national threat, so that police forces will now be under a duty to collaborate across force boundaries, and we will consult on extending the criminal offence of wilful neglect to children’s social care, education professionals and elected members. This afternoon, I will be joining the Prime Minister, the Home Secretary and other Secretaries of State in Downing street to discuss with local and police leaders 813 Child Sexual Exploitation 3 MARCH 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 814 (Oxfordshire) (Oxfordshire) how we will collectively take forward the actions set out that part of today’s summit and the announcements in today’s plan. The experiences of the children set out thereof is a £7 million fund to support those who have in this serious case review should never have happened. been victims. Clearly, however, there is much more that We are determined to do everything in our power to we all need to do. stamp out this horrific abuse and to bring the perpetrators The right hon. Gentleman asks how the culture arose to justice. and why things were not escalated. He also mentions the so-called professional tolerance of these crimes and Mr Smith: I thank the Secretary of State for her asked who takes responsibility. On accountability, he response. Does she agree that the victims, the 370 other set out the position of various people working within children identified as at risk, their families and the Oxfordshire, some of whom are still in their positions public, who are horrified that these sickening crimes and some of whom have moved on. It is not for me to were allowed to continue for so many years, are owed apportion blame—that is a matter for Oxfordshire county answers to crucial questions which the serious case council, the police and the health agencies locally—and review could not address? How was it that there was a the purpose of this serious case review is to understand culture in the county council and the police whereby what went wrong and why, and to ensure that we learn such serious incidents were not escalated to senior the lessons for the future. He is absolutely right to officers? How was it that a professional tolerance of highlight another point, which Maggie Blyth, the under-age sexual activity developed, as the report says, independent reviewer, talked about this morning when to the extent that it contributed to the failure to stop the she said that although abuse? “there was no disregard of clear warnings at top level and no Who takes responsibility for the catastrophic failings? denial by those in charge, their lack of understanding of what was The chief constable and the council chief executive have happening on the front line caused unacceptable delays. This apologised, but they did not know what was happening. allowed offenders to get away with their crimes. The review describes a culture in Oxfordshire where the value of escalation to The chief constable is moving on; the former directors the top was not understood.” of social services and of children and families have left; the former leader of the council retired; the lead member The review also contains some heart-rending comments for children’s services was reshuffled; and the chief from the victims. One that particularly stands out was: executive of Oxfordshire council saw her position made “If a perpetrator can spot the vulnerable children, why can’t redundant at the end of January, only for the council professionals?” leader last week to admit that they had made a hash of The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say that it and so the situation has to be reviewed. many more questions will need to be answered. Does the Secretary of State agree that the much The right hon. Gentleman asks about future reviews commendable work done by the council, the police and and inquiries, and the letter signed today by Ministers other agencies to improve protection and prosecution from my Department, the Home Office and the Department since Operation Bullfinch cannot distract from the horrors of Health makes it clear that we are proposing that the of what went wrong? We saw failure to act on clear local safeguarding children board leads a specific piece evidence of organised sexual exploitation; failure to of work on the impact of the multi-agency approach to provide protection to children; failure to draw serious tackling child sexual exploitation in Oxfordshire. We issues to the attention of senior management; failure to have appointed Sophie Humphreys to work alongside heed the concerns of junior staff; chaotic arrangements Oxfordshire county council to gather the evidence on for child protection; unminuted meetings; and a professional the effect of its reforms to front-line practice. disregard for the illegality of young girls being forced to The right hon. Gentleman correctly highlights the have sex with older men. fact that the council has taken action since these allegations Should there not be wider, independent scrutiny of all first came to light. As has been recognised by the the internal management reviews which underpinned serious case review, there has been tremendous investment this serious case review? Do the public interest and in services to support children at risk of sexual exploitation, redress for victims not dictate that those responsible for including the establishment of the specialist Kingfisher these failings should be fully held to account? Will the team, a multi-agency front-line service for victims of Government set up an independent inquiry into what child sexual exploitation; the training of thousands of went wrong and who made the mistakes that enabled front-line staff in raising awareness; and an increase in this depraved exploitation of vulnerable girls to go on the number of front-line staff as a whole. The right hon. for so long, so that the lessons are learned from these Gentleman is absolutely right to highlight the fact that awful crimes and from the failure of public bodies to lives have been blighted by these crimes. Questions need provide the protection that it was their duty to provide to be answered, some of which will be addressed this to children who were suffering such unspeakable abuse? afternoon in the Prime Minister’s summit in Downing street. Nicky Morgan: I thank the right hon. Gentleman The right hon. Gentleman says that lessons need to very much for his questions, and I fully respect the be learned, which is a phrase that is often used in these emotion and passion with which he and other Members sorts of cases. But that is not enough. We want action. will be discussing these matters—these very serious It was very clear that those who came across this matters, as he has set out. He talks about failures and he information, not just in Oxfordshire but in other authorities, is right to do so. He is also absolutely right to say that at did not act on it and that is unacceptable. the heart of this are the young people who have been utterly let down by the system and whose lives have Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con): been blighted. It is important that we think about all the Nothing more distressingly demonstrates how completely victims and their families, and I am pleased to confirm local agencies failed in this area than the words of 815 Child Sexual Exploitation 3 MARCH 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 816 (Oxfordshire) (Oxfordshire) [Nicola Blackwood] Louise Casey in Rotherham was instrumental in sorting out that council in its approach to child sexual exploitation. survivors. One victim said, “I turned up at a police Will the same approach be taken with Oxfordshire? Will station at 2 am or 3 am with blood all over me, soaked there be further action taken against those agencies and through my trousers to the crotch. They dismissed me individuals who are found to have failed these children? as being naughty and a nuisance. I was bruised and The Prime Minister is today setting out new measures bloody.” Another victim said, “Social services washed to end “wilful neglect”. What is the Government’s definition their hands. It is your choice, I was told.” of “wilful neglect”? Is the Secretary of State satisfied We must not only pay tribute to the victims for their that the definition places sufficient onus on individuals bravery in coming forward, but recognise that such who come into contact with children to report signs of serious abuse has long-term and complex consequences. abuse? Will she and the Home Secretary now support I ask the Education Secretary today to make it a personal stronger laws on child exploitation and abduction? Will priority to ensure that these survivors get the long-term she look again at child abduction warning orders and and sustainable support that they need. the specific offence of child exploitation? Finally, will the Secretary of State now join the Nicky Morgan: I thank my hon. Friend for her remarks. cross-party consensus—the Labour party, the Liberal I know that she, as an Oxfordshire MP, has been deeply Democrats, the Education Committee and all professionals involved in these matters, and I pay tribute to her for in the field—and support age-appropriate statutory sex her work. I can assure her that my Department and all and relationship education to teach young people about relevant Departments will do all we can to help and consent and healthy relationships? We need to give support the victims of these crimes. She is absolutely young people the armoury and the education to know right to talk about the culture of denial, and the that this kind of sexual abuse is wrong and needs to be unwillingness to look at the signs of physical and mental stripped out of British society? abuse inflicted on the victims, which will undoubtedly affect them for the long term. That is why dealing with Nicky Morgan: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his these issues and ensuring that the front-line professionals statement and his questions. I agree with his analysis take action is so important. that voices were not listened to. He points out that prosecutions have already taken place for crimes that Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab): After have been committed. He is right to say that there Rochdale and Rotherham comes an account of the should be no holding back on prosecutions because of horrific events in Oxford. Let us be clear that it is the the perpetrators’ background. As the Prime Minister heinous crimes and the callous wickedness of Mohammed rightly said this morning, that relates not just to Oxfordshire. and Bassam Karrar, Akhtar and Anjum Dogar, Kamar There have been other terrible cases, as we have seen in Jamil, Assad Hussain and Zeeshan Ahmed that needs the past few months, if not years. The Prime Minister to be condemned again today.They are the ones responsible said that a warped sense of political correctness had for the sadism, the grooming, the abuse and the torture potentially prevented some investigations from taking that was inflicted on vulnerable girls in Oxford, robbing place. them of their adolescence, their health and their sense The hon. Gentleman asks about inspections. Ofsted of worth. The serious case review report also reveals inspected Oxfordshire children’s services last year and that both Thames Valley police and Oxfordshire county highlighted, as he did, the steps that had been taken in council completely let down those victims. In the words relation to Oxfordshire children’s services. I have already of one victim, mentioned the letter sent by my right hon. Friends this “The police never asked me why” morning in relation to the appointment of a senior I went missing; children’s services expert to go back into Oxfordshire to “I made a complaint about a man who trafficked me from a look into the points raised in the serious case review. children’s home. He was arrested, released and trafficked me The hon. Gentleman mentions the Louise Casey again.” report. That was a wider report on council governance As we saw in Rochdale, the voice of victims was not in Rotherham, in particular. In Oxfordshire we are listened to and prejudicial thinking around lifestyle looking specifically at the children’s services departments, choices blocked detailed investigation. These were young but clearly this is an ongoing issue. He mentions the girls, exploited teenagers, suffering terrible abuse. Once offence of wilful neglect, which we have said we will again, we need to ensure that care homes, the police, consult on. That is a concept set out in the Mental social workers and health workers eradicate any cultural Capacity Act 2005 and has been proposed by my right tolerance of the abuse of young girls. As Maggie Blyth hon. Friend the Health Secretary in relation to the from the Oxfordshire safeguarding children board said, lessons and the consequences of the Mid Staffs issues. It there were “repeated missed opportunities” which could is a failure to act by a person who has a duty of care, in have been “identified or prevented earlier.” this case to children and young people. Government have a role to play, so let me put these The hon. Gentleman refers to the offence of child questions to the Secretary of State. Is she satisfied that sexual exploitation. There are already many offences the safeguarding arrangements in place for children in under which the perpetrators have been prosecuted, Oxfordshire today are right and proper and will prevent including, clearly, sexual relations with children and more children from being vulnerable to child sexual child rape. He mentions the education of young people exploitation? Do the Government now intend to establish in schools. I am fully in favour of excellent PSHE, sex an independent inquiry into Oxfordshire county council and relationship education and education on consent, to see whether it has the capacity to safeguard its but it must be excellent. It cannot just be about ticking children? We know that the work of Alexis Jay and boxes. He talks about young people perhaps not knowing 817 Child Sexual Exploitation 3 MARCH 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 818 (Oxfordshire) (Oxfordshire) that what was happening to them was wrong. I think he as one witness put it, and to tell them about age gaps knows that that is not the case, given the quotes from and predatory behaviours so that they start to recognise the victims in the serious case review. They knew that those. We wrestled with how we would get the curriculum what was happening to them was wrong. They asked for time and the investment in teacher quality if we do not help but they did not get it. make such education statutory—reluctantly, because we do not want to impose further duties on schools. We Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Does my right came to the conclusion that that had to be made statutory hon. Friend agree that every police officer, council if we are to deliver it. If the Secretary of State thinks it official and social worker should consider whether a should not be statutory, will she tell us why, or tell us youngster is a child, and if they may be a child, they what else could be done in lieu of what we suggested to should be regarded as a child, listened to as a child and make these things happen? protected as a child, and that any professional who fails to provide that protection should risk disciplinary and Nicky Morgan: I thank my hon. Friend the Chairman criminal proceedings? of the Select Committee for his remarks. The Committee produced an interesting report and I know that the Nicky Morgan: My right hon. Friend is right. The Minister of State, my hon. Friend the Member for offences in this case and in many others were committed Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) gave evidence against children. There can be no doubt that children of to the Committee. We will consider the conclusions the age involved cannot give their consent to what was carefully. In relation to consent, it is important to know perpetrated against them. That should have made it is that the victims in these cases knew that they had not much clearer to those who received reports or should given consent. There was no question about consent have taken action that they needed to do so, and they being given. They knew that what was happening to were professionally incompetent for not doing so. them was absolutely wrong. Sex and relationship education is already compulsory in secondary maintained schools. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Does Most academies and free schools also teach it, and I the Secretary of State agree that these ghastly crimes suspect that many primaries do so in an age-appropriate against children are a blight on any civilised society and way. I was at Eastbourne academy last week talking to that we must stop them occurring? Does she further the students there about what they call SPHERE, which agree that it is too often too easy to provide a fast is like PSHE. The academy taught it in a fantastic way. knee-jerk response and get it wrong? Let us look very It did not need to be told to do so; it did not need such carefully at the evidence and consider how to respond. teaching to be statutory. It was doing it because, exactly Let us look also at the way in which we are shrinking as the Chairman of the Select Committee said, it was childhood in this country. Personally, I would like to see preparing young people to be resilient. the age of consent raised. I oppose votes at 16 because that will bring the end of childhood closer. There is too much pressure on childhood and we as a society must Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab): The whole look carefully at the preciousness of the childhood House will be appalled at what has happened in Oxfordshire, years. but does the Secretary of State understand that we are appalled also that individuals who preside over these Nicky Morgan: The hon. Gentleman is right that failing systems are not held to account? If there was a what we have seen in Oxfordshire and elsewhere are council where junior social workers have not referred abhorrent, sickening crimes, and they are crimes. He is these things up the system, where senior officers and right to say that any of us in any position of authority senior councillors were unaware of them, that is a sign feels that those are a stain on our society and must be of a failing system within a council, and a proper eradicated. He is right to say that we do not want to independent outside inquiry is needed to get to the rush into responding, but where immediate action must heart of why that system failed and to put it right, as be taken, it is important that it is taken. That is what we was rightly done in Rotherham. Will the right hon. have seen in Rotherham, for example, with the appointment Lady explain to us why that is not happening now? of the commissioners. The Secretaries of State have been meeting since last autumn to discuss the Government’s Nicky Morgan: The serious case review is an important response to Rotherham in particular, which will be step in what the hon. Lady calls for. It identifies the fact announced at Downing street this afternoon. We have that, as she said, in Oxfordshire’s case there were junior taken time and there will be further consultations coming people who were producing reports but those did not out of the response. We have already announced reforms reach a senior enough level. There are other councils, as to children’s social work practice, and that is a long-term we know, one of which is Rotherham, where junior response about improving training. He will understand people did put in reports which were raised at a senior that there needs to be a mixture of responses to something level, and the people at a senior level chose not to act on as sickening as this. them. I have sympathy for the hon. Lady’s point about accountability and people taking responsibility. It will Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): clearly be a matter for Oxfordshire county council, the We must do everything we can to reduce the vulnerability police and others to think about who needs to take of the young people we have heard about today. Further responsibility for these matters. We have already seen to the question from the Opposition spokesman and the that in Rotherham my right hon. Friend the Secretary Secretary of State’s response, my Committee agrees of State for Communities and Local Government has about the need for excellent sex and relationship education appointed a whole new set of commissioners to run that in schools precisely to give resilience to young people, to council. There are other councils where those in charge enable them to talk about consent in a meaningful way, have taken responsibility and have resigned. 819 Child Sexual Exploitation 3 MARCH 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 820 (Oxfordshire) (Oxfordshire) Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con): other operations and lessons learned from other cases. I welcome the measures announced today and the Secretary It is a different landscape but, as he will appreciate, that of State’s indication that child sexual exploitation is does not take away from the harm done to the victims. now seen as a national threat, which shows the scale of abuse that I think is suspected. Thames Valley police John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab): I called for the immediate suffered from many failings, but they have made some removal and resignation of the Labour leadership of progress since 2013—I believe that 47 offenders have Rotherham council. Will the Secretary of State join me been successfully charged with 201 child sexual exploitation in calling for the resignation of the political leadership offences. What can she say at this stage about the of Oxfordshire county council? support that she and her colleague in the Home Office, the Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims, Nicky Morgan: I think that is a matter for the leaders will give to police officers and those on the front line and elected members of Oxfordshire county council to who have to deal with these terrible offences? consider. The serious case review obviously covers failings from 2004 to 2011. We have today asked for a further Nicky Morgan: My right hon. Friend is absolutely locally led assessment of child sexual exploitation in right that child sexual abuse will now be prioritised by Oxfordshire and for Sophie Humphreys to continue every police force in England and Wales as a national that work. Let me say to the hon. Gentleman that this threat, just like serious and organised crime, which work is ongoing. means forces will now have a duty to collaborate to safeguard children, including through more efficient Sir (Mole Valley) (Con): Two weeks sharing of resources, intelligence and best practice. ago I was with the Metropolitan police jigsaw unit and They will also be supported by specialist regional CSE paedophile unit, and they will be delighted to a degree police co-ordinators. I think that the national policing to hear her statement on education, because they feel lead will be at this afternoon’s summit, where I expect to that that is the answer, but they want it to be slanted hear about much better training for all police officers. more towards prevention. Teach what is normally taught, Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): Sadly, this report but also teach children about prevention, particularly echoes many of the examples of child abuse we have on the internet. The Metropolitan police used to have a heard about in my own borough of Rotherham and very good scheme that certainly worked for children elsewhere. I have two things to say to the Secretary of and teachers, but it seems to have disappeared. State. First, Ofsted also carried out an inspection in Rotherham and gave it a clean bill of health when that Nicky Morgan: My hon. Friend is right about the clearly was not the case. Secondly, she is right to say importance of education. It is all about the quality of that Louise Casey’s report on governance went wider the teaching materials and of the teaching that goes on than child protection, but it was set up specifically in schools. There is no point having some sort of lip because of the child abuse taking place in Rotherham. service paid to lessons about consent or anything else if Is the Secretary of State satisfied that the scrutiny by the lessons do not sink in. The Government have invested elected members in Oxfordshire is up to the standard in the PSHE Association, supporting improved teaching necessary to protect our young children? It clearly was materials and improved guidance on consent. not in my borough, and people are rightly having to take responsibility for that. Is she happy that that is Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) being done in the elected Oxfordshire county council (Lab): May I press the Secretary of State on the need as well? for an independent inquiry? If the cultural issues that led to complaints and concerns not being escalated have Nicky Morgan: The right hon. Gentleman is right to not been addressed, why should there not be an independent say that Ofsted inspected Rotherham before the issues inquiry? came to light. The Ofsted framework has since changed, so the inspection carried out in Rotherham was based Nicky Morgan: As I said earlier, the serious case on a different framework and asked different questions review is an independent inquiry and, under this from those of the inspection that we see today and the Government, it will be published in full so that we can one that was carried out in Oxfordshire last summer. He all see what has been said. As I have said, we propose is right to raise the issue of elected members, which is that there should be a specific piece of work led by one of the questions that we will continue to go back to Oxfordshire’s safeguarding children board on the impact in Oxfordshire. He will be aware that the proposals on of the multi-agency approach to tackling CSE, and we wilful neglect that the Prime Minister announced this are appointing a children’s services expert to work alongside morning will also apply to elected members. the council and gather evidence of the reforms it has (Henley) (Con): I, too, pay tribute to the already made to front-line practice. victims of these appalling crimes. Has the Secretary of State taken into account the fact that Operation Bullfinch, (Ashford) (Con): I know that there are which brought the perpetrators to justice, has transformed many police officers at all levels of the service who are the legal landscape in which cases can be heard? Have appalled at the policing failures that led to the wider the good points that were brought out from Operation failures in this terrible set of cases. I appreciate that this Bullfinch been taken into account across the country? does not fall within the Secretary of State’s ministerial responsibility, but does she share my view that the key Nicky Morgan: I thank my hon. Friend, who is thing in the training of police officers now is to change absolutely right to put support for the victims at the the culture of disbelief so that they treat vulnerable heart of all this. He is right that things have moved on young women no longer as a problem but as victims as a result partly of Operation Bullfinch and partly of of crime? 821 Child Sexual Exploitation 3 MARCH 2015 Child Sexual Exploitation 822 (Oxfordshire) (Oxfordshire) Nicky Morgan: My right hon. Friend is right to point charities and non-statutory bodies that are doing such to the culture of denial and disbelief. As we heard from fantastic work to support victims but find themselves the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith), under increasing pressure at this time? there was sometimes a reluctance to believe allegations, even when victims presented themselves in a state at a Nicky Morgan: Although many statutory agencies police station. The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice will be responsible for dealing with these issues in and Victims is sitting alongside me, and I know that he supporting victims and their families, my hon. Friend is is as appalled as we all are about this. As we have absolutely right to pay tribute to the charities and the learned, there are lessons for the police that will be voluntary and community sector, which provide that picked up at today’s summit. support as well. This afternoon, for example, representatives from the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The Secretary of to Children, Barnardo’s and Rape Crisis are attending State earlier said, “We on this side of the House are a summit on this. I know from my role as Minister concerned”. May I take this opportunity to remind her for Women and Equalities—the policing Minister will that all Members on both sides of the House are united appreciate this too—that smaller organisations often in their determination to drive out child sexual exploitation? find very valuable support in communities. We absolutely I ask her to look at two particular proposals to increase want to help them to do their job. resilience to such exploitation among children: first, to Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): When the Education feed into the Home Office review of child advocates the Committee carried out a year-long inquiry into child lessons from this review; and secondly, to take up a protection, we found that more needed to be done to suggestion made by worried mums in my constituency support professionals in responding effectively and for parents’ PSHE so that they can better protect their consistently to the early signs of neglect. Neglect causes children. long-term damage to thousands of young people every year. Therefore, should not prevention of neglect be as Nicky Morgan: The hon. Lady will appreciate that I much of a priority as finding the perpetrators and cannot speak for Opposition Members, but I think that supporting the victims, which the Secretary of State has the tone of remarks from the shadow Education Secretary talked about, and should that not include support for and others has shown that Members on both sides of professionals, as recommended by the Committee and the House are appalled by what has happened to the accepted by the Government two years ago in their victims, and sadly not only in Oxfordshire, but in other response to our report? local authorities. She will be well aware of what has happened to Slough’s children’s services and of the Nicky Morgan: The hon. Gentleman talks about the work that has been done there to set up the trust over need to deal with neglect, and I entirely agree. Sadly, the years. I understand her point about child advocates, there are many vulnerable children across our country. I which has already been taken up, and what she says am sure that we see them in our role as constituency about parents, whether in relation to PSHE or anything Members of Parliament and work with them and their else. In this case, however, looking again at the serious families. I mention to him the work that this Government case review, there were parents of victims also saying have undertaken through the troubled families programme, that they needed help, but they were not believed. That which is turning round the lives of thousands of children. makes this case even more appalling. We also have the new knowledge and skills statement for children’s social workers that has been prepared by Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): As my right hon. the chief children’s social worker, Isabelle Trowler, who Friend has said, child sexual exploitation has been a does a fantastic job in my Department, and the wider scourge in many communities across the UK. I am reforms that I have announced in training for children’s pleased that Lancashire police have taken a lead on social work. It all very well to have lots of children’s those issues for a number of years now and regularly social workers, but it is also very important to ensure update me on local prosecutions. Will she say more the quality of their training and of the work that they about the level of support she can provide for the do in supporting vulnerable children and families. 823 3 MARCH 2015 Yarl’s Wood 824

Yarl’s Wood legislative change as a result; held a summit on policing and mental health, highlighting in particular the concerns 1.11 pm of black and ethnic minority people; and commissioned Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary to undertake Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab) (Urgent Question): a review of vulnerable people in police custody that will To ask the Home Secretary to make a statement on be published shortly. Before these allegations were made, Yarl’s Wood immigration detention centre. the Home Secretary commissioned Stephen Shaw, the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the former prisons and probation ombudsman for England Home Department (): Detention is an and Wales, to lead an independent review of welfare in important part of a firm but fair immigration system. It the whole immigration detention estate. We will of is right that those with no right to remain in the UK are course invite him to consider these allegations as part returned to their home country if they will not leave of that overarching review. voluntarily, but a sense of fairness must always be at the This country has a long tradition of tolerance and heart of our immigration system, including for those we respect for human rights. Detaining those with no right are removing from the UK. That is why the allegations to remain here and who refuse to leave voluntarily is key made by Channel 4 about Serco staff at Yarl’s Wood are to maintaining an effective immigration system. But we serious and deeply concerning, it is why they required are clear that all detainees must be treated with dignity an immediate response to address them, and it is why and respect. We will accept nothing but the highest the Government have ensured that that is being done. standards from those to whom we entrust the responsibility All immigration removal centres are subject to the of their care. detention centre rules approved by this House in 2001. Those rules, and further operational guidance, set out Keith Vaz: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting the the standards that we all expect to ensure that the urgent question and the Minister for her answer and her safety and dignity of detainees is upheld. No form of explanation of why the Minister for Security and discrimination is tolerated. In addition to the rules, Immigration is not here today. I am very pleased to see removal centres are subject to regular independent the two local MPs, the right hon. Member for North inspections by Her Majesty’s inspectorate of prisons East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) and the hon. Member and by independent monitoring boards that publish for Bedford (Richard Fuller). their findings. The chairman of monitoring Channel 4’s film on Yarl’s Wood, shown last night, board for Yarl’s Wood is Mary Coussey, the former revealed shocking footage about the detention centre, independent race monitor. The most recent inspection which has been under heavy criticism for the treatment by Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons found Yarl’s of its 400 detainees since 2001. What was uncovered Wood to be a safe and respectful centre that is continuing was deeply disturbing. Serious questions were raised to improve. The last annual report of the independent over standards of health care in Yarl’s Wood. What was monitoring board commented positively on the emphasis detailed included examples of self-harm by detainees, placed on purposeful activities within the centre and the including three women who jumped from the stairs and expansion of welfare provision, and raised no concerns people slashing their wrists in an attempt not to be about safety. None the less, the Home Office expects the removed. It took a freedom of information request to highest levels of integrity and professionalism from all reveal that there were 74 separate incidents of self-harm its contractors and takes any allegations of misconduct needing medical treatment at the centre in 2013. Guards extremely seriously. As soon as we were made aware of who appeared in the footage merely dismissed information the recent allegations, Home Office officials visited about people harming themselves as “attention seeking”. Yarl’s Wood to secure assurances that all detainees were Will the Minister explain why her ministerial colleague, being treated in a safe and dignified manner. Lord Bates, told Parliament on 24 February that there The director general of immigration enforcement has had been no serious incidents of self-harm taking place written to Serco making our expectations about its in the past two years? response to these allegations very clear. We told Serco Arguably the most concerning element was the contempt that it must act quickly and decisively to eradicate the that was shown for detainees through the use of racist, kinds of attitudes that appear to have been displayed by sexist and generally abusive and degrading language. its staff. Serco immediately suspended one member of We saw a guard advocating violence towards a person staff who could be identified from information available who was detained there. One guard said: before the broadcast, and has suspended another having seen the footage. The company has also commissioned “Headbutt the bitch…I’d beat her up.” an independent review of its culture and staffing at Another was recorded as saying: Yarl’s Wood. This will be conducted for Serco by Kate “They’re animals. They’re beasties. They’re all animals. Caged Lampard, who, as the House will be aware, recently animals. Take a stick with you and beat them up.” produced the “lessons learned” review of the Jimmy These are appalling statements that should never be Savile inquiries for the Department of Health. However, tolerated by anybody, particularly from employees of a more needs to be done. The Home Office has made it company in receipt of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ clear that we expect to see the swift and comprehensive money. Yarl’s Wood is not a prison but an immigration introduction of body-worn cameras for staff at Yarl’s centre that has a duty to protect some of the most Wood. In addition, we have discussed with Her Majesty’s vulnerable, who are in most cases escaping violence and chief inspector of prisons how he might provide further instability in their countries of origin in search of a independent assurance. better life. Frankly, some are there because the Home This Government have a proud record of working to Office has taken such a long time to deal with their protect vulnerable people in detention. We have reviewed cases. Instead of being protected, detainees are verbally the Mental Health Act 1983 and set out proposals for abused and poorly treated. 825 Yarl’s Wood3 MARCH 2015 Yarl’s Wood 826

This is not the first time that Yarl’s Wood has been that this Government and this House take that very the subject of parliamentary criticism. The Home Affairs seriously. The message to Serco is that this needs to be Committee has been highly critical of the centre’s sorted out and needs to be sorted out quickly. performance following damning reports of sexual misconduct and excessively long detentions. Of course I Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con): I spoke welcome the suspension of one of the people involved, this morning to the chair of the independent monitoring and the fact that an independent inquiry is to be established, board at Yarl’s Wood, and she is shocked and horrified but the Minister is absolutely right that more needs to about what was shown on television last night. There is be done. We need a timetable for that inquiry. Will she no justification for what we saw, and the action taken by send in her inspectors not just to visit but to write a the Government and Serco is quite right. What bothers report having spoken to detainees? me is that we are here again: this is not new. I am also bothered by the disparity. The Minister was quite right Has the Minister spoken to Rupert Soames, the chief to refer to a series of reports from the chief inspector of executive of Serco, to express the Government’s concern? prisons, Nick Hardwick, whom we all know, and to the Serco’s right to bid for other contracts should be suspended report of Mary Coussey of the independent monitoring pending any review. Despite reports of catastrophic board, but those reports are at odds and at variance failings in November last year, Serco was awarded an with such individual incidents. These incidents keep eight-year, £70 million contract at Yarl’s Wood. Will happening, and I do not know who is missing what. the Minister look at her procurement processes? All of Serco’s contracts should be reviewed immediately. The As the review takes place, as it must, I urge the Select Committee has recommended in the past that Minister to look at this point in particular. Over a those who fail the taxpayer should be put on a register period of time, I have pleaded with the Government to and should not be given any other contracts. Only a few allow proper journalistic access to and transparency in months ago, the Lord Chancellor sent in the Serious Yarl’s Wood—if the press cannot get in one way, they Fraud Office in order to discover why Serco had overcharged will get in another. There is also the refusal to allow the the taxpayer by £70 million. UN rapporteur the opportunity to go in. The regime in Yarl’s Wood is completely different from the one originally I agree with the Minister that this treatment is inhumane. set up by the previous Government. I have seen it The United Kingdom has a reputation as a world leader change over many years, but there is no way to convince in human rights—that is clear from the number of people of that unless they can get in. As well as dealing people who risk their lives to come here—and we simply with this incident, will she look at the disparity between cannot allow this behaviour to continue in a centre that the reports and such incidents, because we should not has a duty to protect them. have to meet in the Chamber and discuss this again in future?

Karen Bradley: I thank the right hon. Gentleman, the Karen Bradley: I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend Chair of the Home Affairs Committee, for all that he for all his work, as the local constituency MP for Yarl’s and his Committee have done over many years to Wood, in highlighting problems in the past. I am sure he highlight problems in immigration detention centres. agrees that to have a fair immigration system, there In 2009, his Committee reported specifically on UK comes a point at which some form of detention is Border Agency immigration detention centres, and this needed for people who refuse to leave the country Government legislated to implement its recommendations. voluntarily, but they must be detained with dignity and fairness to ensure that they are treated with respect. The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We are My right hon. Friend will know that Stephen Shaw is all shocked and appalled by the evidence we have seen, carrying out a review of the whole immigration detention and action must be taken. Hon. Members should be estate, and I look forward to that report. He will also under no illusions: this Government are breathing down know that the independent monitoring board has the the neck of Serco, and we want to see action swiftly. keys to Yarl’s Wood: it can access Yarl’s Wood at any time. Knowing that, and given the review that is taking The right hon. Gentleman said that one person has place, we will look at everything to make sure we have been suspended. In fact, one person was suspended certainty and can be confident that detainees are treated before the broadcast. We were unable to see the programme with dignity. before it was broadcast, but on the basis of evidence available before the broadcast, one person was suspended. Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab): The revelations on Channel 4 Another has since been suspended, and I know that were shocking, but they were not at all new or even Serco will shortly look at whether to suspend others. surprising for many of us who have worked with people The right hon. Gentleman referred to a comment in Yarl’s Wood over the years. It is eight years since I about self-harm by my colleague the noble Lord Bates worked with a 13-year-old girl who attempted suicide in in the other place. In fact, Lord Bates said that there Yarl’s Wood and was taken to Bedford hospital, where were no cases of suicide or attempted suicide in Yarl’s she was shackled to her bed by prison guards. Since Wood, and that is correct. There is evidence of self-harm, then, we have had numerous reports from charities and which we take extremely seriously, but there have been independent monitors about sexual abuse, sexual no suicides or attempted suicides. exploitation, self-harm and mental health problems left untreated. This is not just about isolated individuals. The right hon. Gentleman said that the language I would say to the Minister that a system run for and behaviour of the staff is completely and totally profit and to targets leaves very little room for compassion inappropriate. Hon. Members should be in no doubt or humanity.Although it is absolutely right that individuals 827 Yarl’s Wood3 MARCH 2015 Yarl’s Wood 828

[Lisa Nandy] humanely. There is a history of problems at Yarl’s Wood going back many years, but we were told that it are prosecuted and brought to justice for the shocking had been dealt with. things that we saw on Channel 4 last night, it is about Yet in September 2013, it was reported that women at time that we got a grip on the system. Will she make Yarl’s Wood had been sexually assaulted by guards sure that the review of detention includes the impacts of from Serco, which the Home Secretary had contracted private sector, for-profit involvement in detention on to manage the centre. I called on her to set up an some of the most vulnerable people in this country? independent inquiry, but she did not. In March 2014, a woman died in Yarl’s Wood. I asked an urgent question Karen Bradley: The hon. Lady talks about having in the House, and again called on the Home Secretary worked in this area for many years, including things she to set up an independent inquiry. She would not come saw eight years ago. I agree that things were wrong and to the House, and she did not set up an inquiry. In May, that they need to improve. This Government are proud more allegations came out, including that another vulnerable of the measures we have taken—for example, on stop- woman was sexually assaulted, and that a woman who and-search and mental health in custody—and the review poured boiling water over herself was left for hours in a we have instigated from Stephen Shaw is the next step in state of shock. I called on the Home Secretary to set up a natural progression to ensuring we safeguard people a proper independent inquiry, and I again called on her while treating detainees with appropriate dignity. I do to do so at the end of last year. not think that the question is about whether that is done through the public sector or the private sector; the The Home Secretary has repeatedly refused to establish question is about how we make sure that people in an independent inquiry, refused to investigate allegations detention are treated with the dignity that they should of rape and sexual abuse, refused to let even the UN rightly have. We are all shocked by what we have seen, rapporteur visit and refused to come to this House to and we need to make sure that it is rectified. answer for it. Instead, in November, the Home Secretary renewed Sarah Teather (Brent Central) (LD): I have chaired a Serco’s contract. She gave the company whose guards cross-party inquiry on the issue of immigration detention, stand accused of abuse a contract for another eight and our report was published this morning. The panel’s years. We called on her to have an inquiry before she concern is that if the response to the scandal at Yarl’s renewed the contract and she refused. Last month, she Wood focuses only on conditions, it is likely to tackle said that she would review the policies and procedures just symptoms, rather than the underlying causes. The in detention centres. Again, that should have been done Minister says that the question is about how people before the contract was renewed. are treated in detention, but our question is why some Here we are again with even more serious allegations. of these people are in detention in the first place. A pregnant woman was left to have a miscarriage Our evidence suggests that most of the problems arise without getting all the medical support she needed. because we detain too many people for far too long and Guards are calling women “animals”, with one saying, inappropriately. “Take a stick with you and beat them up.” Will the Minister commit the Government to responding Those are the Serco guards to whom the Home Secretary in full to our inquiry? In particular, will she look at the gave the contract just a few months ago. There is no international evidence we have presented, which suggests point in Ministers pretending to be shocked at the news that there is a cheaper, more humane and more effective of abuse—it is not news. Even now, Ministers have not way of operating by making better use of community set up an independent inquiry; Serco has. We are leaving alternatives? it to the company to set up the independent inquiry that should have been set up by the Home Office. Karen Bradley: My hon. Friend has worked tirelessly and ceaselessly on this issue, and I pay tribute to her The Home Secretary should have come to the House and her committee for the report. I have a copy of it, today to answer this question. What has been happening and I have to say that it is quite lengthy. I have not had a is an utter disgrace, as is the continued failure to look chance to get through all its points, but I assure her that into it. The Minister has been sent out to defend the I will look at it, and I will make sure that we respond indefensible. She should go back and tell the Home to it. Secretary to take some responsibility for a change, to stop pregnant women and victims of sexual violence My hon. Friend talks about the fact that more people being held in Yarl’s Wood,and to hold a proper independent are detained. It is important to make it clear that we inquiry, because this is state-sanctioned abuse of women have taken measures so that when people arrive clandestinely on the Home Secretary’s watch and it needs to end now. in the UK, we can be certain who they are—their nationality and identity—and ensure that they pose no risk to the British public. I do not apologise for putting Karen Bradley: It is very disappointing that the right the safety and security of the British public first and hon. Lady comes to this House, not having called for foremost when someone arrives clandestinely by making the urgent question, and makes comments about the sure that they are who they say they are, while treating Home Secretary not being here. She knows that the them appropriately. Home Secretary is at No. 10 at the moment dealing with child abuse—something that we all agree is an incredibly (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) important, urgent matter that needs to be dealt with. (Lab): Women in Yarl’s Wood are detained on the It is also disappointing that the right hon. Lady talks instruction of the Home Office, and the Home Secretary about abuses at Yarl’s Wood. Let us remember what the is therefore responsible for ensuring that they are treated report on the announced inspection of Yarl’s Wood 829 Yarl’s Wood3 MARCH 2015 Yarl’s Wood 830 immigration removal centre in 2008 said. Let us remember that we will see a difference in the length of time people who was in government at that time. The report stated: spend in detention. It is not something that any of us “we were dismayed to find cases of disabled children being want to see, but it is a necessary evil if we are to have a detained and some children spending large amounts of time fair, robust immigration system. incarcerated.” It said: Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): I “Escort vehicles with caged compartments were inappropriately am disappointed that the Minister is reacting in the way used to transport children.” that she is. This is a very important issue. It is a stain on It is this Government who have legislated to end the our country’s reputation for human rights. Does she detention of children for immigration purposes. agree that we all have to learn from the tradition of using these big, monopolistic companies? G4S let us In 2008, just 68% of detainees said that most staff down at the Olympics, Serco is involved in this case, treated them with respect. The figure is now 84%. The Capita was involved in the tagging of individuals and report said: now the Government are putting our probation service “Not enough was done to communicate with detainees who out to one of these companies. When will we learn that spoke little English”. these companies have poor management, the wrong It said: ethic, the wrong culture and the wrong priorities? It is “Women complained about the food. Healthcare needed further about time we changed all that. improvement, particularly to address mental health and child health needs.” Karen Bradley: I think it was the previous Government That was the report in 2008 under the right hon. Lady’s who used private contracts. Private companies are not Government. It is this Government who have looked to necessarily bad; they just have to be properly managed. ensure that those things are dealt with. We have set up the review. We have set up the review Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD): Yarl’s Wood into the whole immigration detention estate that is has been a disgrace for well over a decade. It was a being led by Stephen Shaw. I am confident that he will disgrace under the last Government and it is a disgrace uncover the abuse. under this Government. When children were detained The right hon. Lady asked about the renewal of there, they were left at serious risk of harm. We now Serco’s contract. Let us remember what the policy is. have adults being left at serious risk of harm. That is The rules that determine the renewal of contracts were completely unacceptable. Yes, the individual employees drawn up by Parliament in 2001. That is a rigorous and were at fault; yes, the company is at fault, but changing robust process, and it was set up by her Government. that will not fix the system. Getting in a new company, a We will take no lessons on this matter from the Labour new organisation and new employees will not solve the party. We have a proud record and we will root out the problem. What we have to do, as is suggested in the abuse. report by the panel that was chaired so well by my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con): The individual employees is to completely rethink the system. No other country in at Yarl’s Wood let down their colleagues, their company Europe has indefinite detention and holds people for and their country with their vile comments, which were years on end. I hope that the Minister will look at that exposed on Channel 4. However, the issue is not just again. I hope that the Minister and the shadow Secretary individual people; it is the policy of the overuse of of State will look at the report and change their policy. detention in managing immigration. That policy was introduced by the last Labour Government and has Karen Bradley: My hon. Friend referred to children been continued by the coalition Government. When being treated badly in Yarl’s Wood. He will know that will the two Front Benches wake up and smell the this Government have taken action and stopped that. I coffee? Immigration detention is costly, ineffective and will look at the report, as I have said. I look forward to unjust. It costs millions of pounds a year. Some 70% of seeing what suggestions have been made. It is worth people who go into immigration detention go back into repeating that we have reduced from 17 to four the the community. These experiences in Yarl’s Wood are a number of appeals a detainee can make against their stain on the conscience of this country. removal. It is also worth saying that 63% of detainees are released within 28 days. We need to get that percentage Karen Bradley: I thank my hon. Friend for his question up, but we also need to ensure that the system is fair for and for the work that he has done as the constituency those who play by the rules. Member of Parliament for Yarl’s Wood. He is right that the individuals in question have let down many people. Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I have He is also right that it is not just about the individuals. been sickened by and ashamed at the reports about the We need to get to the bottom of what is going on there treatment of detainees at Yarl’s Wood that we have seen and to understand it exactly. The measures that we have this week and on so many previous occasions. I am also insisted that Serco undertake urgently, including the use ashamed of some of the partisan comments that have of body-worn cameras by all staff, will make a difference been made in the discussion this afternoon. They are of by exposing where there is abuse. absolutely no interest to the women I have met who My hon. Friend talked about people being in detention have spent time in Yarl’s Wood and who have emerged for too long. I agree that people have been kept in incredibly distressed. I ask that we all think about the detention for too long. That has happened because the tone in which we conduct this discussion. previous Government’s immigration system allowed up May I ask the Minister a specific question about the to 17 appeals. The Immigration Act 2014, which we investigations and reviews that are taking place? In brought in, brings that number down to four. I hope the past, there have been reports that women who have 831 Yarl’s Wood3 MARCH 2015 Yarl’s Wood 832

[Kate Green] which meant that we could not get to the bottom of whether somebody was right to claim asylum or whether evidence to give or victims of abuse have been deported they should be returned to their home. By reducing the before their cases could be properly investigated. What number of appeals to four, I hope we will see a shorter assurances will she give that that will not happen, that time period. all the evidence will be gathered in, and that those who have a story to tell will be heard and will remain in this Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD): The country to tell it? managing director of Serco’s home affairs business has said that an independent review was required because Karen Bradley: The hon. Lady is right to say that this the is about the people—I absolutely agree with her about “public will want to be confident that Yarl’s Wood is doing its that. It is the victims of abuse that we really need to difficult task with professionalism, care and humanity”. think about and put at the forefront of what we are Given the catalogue of shame and controversy over doing. She will know that, through the Modern Slavery many years, is it not the case that the only way to regain Bill, we are introducing new protections for victims of public confidence is to strip Serco of its responsibility trafficking, including those who come to light in detention. for running Yarl’s Wood? I heard a horrific story recently about somebody who had been treated as a victim of domestic abuse, but it Karen Bradley: I do not think that the answer is to was only when her immigration status began to be strip Serco of its responsibility; the answer is to make questioned and she ended up in an immigration detention sure that we get to the bottom of what has happened. centre that she came forward and said that she was a My hon. Friend is right to say that any form of abuse is victim of trafficking as well. It is absolutely paramount an embarrassment. We need the public not just to see that front-line staff receive training to make sure that that there are no problems, but to believe that there are they can identify those victims so that we can get them no problems. We need them to be happy that detainees into the national referral mechanism, give them the are being treated in an appropriate and acceptable way. support they need and catch the evil perpetrators of We are holding Serco’s feet to the fire: I want to see those crimes. I totally agree with the hon. Lady that that action, we are making sure that it takes action, and we must be at the forefront of what we are doing. will take action against it if we need to.

Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): Detention is part Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) of the immigration system, but we must ensure that all (Lab): In her opening remarks, the Minister said that a detainees are treated in a safe and dignified manner. On recent inspection had found Yarl’s Wood to be safe. Sunday, I met a local family who are very concerned Clearly, it is not. Could she explain the discrepancy that a family member with mental health issues will between the reality and the inspection report, and what shortly be detained before being deported. Although I is she doing about it? appreciate that the Minister cannot comment on individual cases, will she say more about what is being done to Karen Bradley: As I said in my opening comments, ensure that those with mental health issues are safely there have been a number of inspections of Yarl’s Wood detained if they need to be detained? by Her Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons and the independent monitoring board, which, as I have said, Karen Bradley: As my hon. Friend says, I cannot has the keys to Yarl’s Wood and can go in any time it comment on the specifics of that case, but it clearly wants. We have found no evidence that anybody is at sounds like a heart-rending situation. We have taken risk. However, the allegations made in last night’s action to make sure that those suffering from mental programme are very serious and we need to get to the health conditions are not detained in police custody, bottom of them and take action. and we are taking steps to ensure that they are not detained in immigration detention. Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab): The recent footage was disturbing, but, unfortunately, Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): The Minister has allegations of sexual abuse of vulnerable women and said that about two thirds of the women in Yarl’s Wood abuse at the centre are not new. Given the apparent gulf are there for more than a month. Overwhelmingly, these between official reports, what the Minister has said are people who have not been convicted, or even accused, today and life at Yarl’s Wood, and given that we have of any crime, but who are put in administrative detention seen so many repeated failures over such a long period for extended periods. What is the Minister doing to of time and the reluctance of Ministers to act so far, can make sure that they have the high-quality legal advice we be confident that change will really happen? and representation they require to make sure that their case is properly heard before she organises their removal? Karen Bradley: It is not fair to say that Ministers have been reluctant to take action—we have taken significant Karen Bradley: To correct the hon. Lady, she said that action. This urgent question follows an urgent question two thirds are held for more than a month, but 63% are about Oxfordshire county council, and a summit on discharged within 28 days and either removed or released. child sexual abuse is taking place at Downing street The issue with the length of time for which people are today. There needs to be a sea change in how all people detained is that the system that we inherited had too in authority and all bodies treat allegations and victims. many layers, too many procedures and too many appeals, We all have a responsibility to take this seriously. 833 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 834 Bay) Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay) The result was not just the tragedy of lives lost, but indescribable anguish for the families left behind. James Titcombe speaks of being haunted by “feelings of personal 1.45 pm guilt” about his nine-day-old son who died. “If only”, The Secretary of State for Health (Mr ): he says, “I had done more to help Joshua when he still With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a had a chance”. Carl Hendrickson, who worked at the statement on the independent investigation into the hospital and lost his wife and baby son, told me that he care of mothers and babies at the University Hospitals was asked to work in the same unit where they had died of Morecambe Bay NHS Foundation Trust, which is and even with the same equipment that had been connected being published today. to his late wife. Simon Davey and Liza Brady told me that the doctor who might have saved their son Alex I commissioned this report in September 2013 because was shooed away by a midwife, with no one taking I believed there were vital issues that needed to be responsibility when he was tragically born dead. addressed following serious incidents in maternity services provided by the trust dating back to 2004. In short, it was a second Mid Staffs, where the problems—albeit on a smaller scale—occurred largely There is no greater pain for a parent than to lose a over the same period. In both cases perceived pressure child, and to do so knowing it was because of mistakes to achieve foundation trust status led to poor care being that we now know were covered up makes the agony ignored and patient safety being compromised, and in even worse. Nothing we say or do today can take away both cases the regulatory system failed to address the that pain, but we can at least provide the answers to the problems quickly. In both cases families faced delay, families’ questions about what happened and why, and denial and obfuscation in their search for the truth, in doing so try to prevent a similar tragedy in the future. which in this case meant that at least nine significant We can do something else, too, which should have opportunities to intervene and save lives were missed. happened much earlier—and that is, on behalf of the To those who have maintained that Mid Staffs was a Government and the NHS, to apologise to every family one-off “local failure”, today’s report will give serious who have suffered as a result of these terrible failures. cause for reflection. The courage of those families in constantly reliving As a result of the new inspection regime introduced their sadness in a long and bitter search for the truth by this Government, the trust was put into special means that lessons will now be learned so that other measures in June 2014. The report acknowledges families do not have to go through the same nightmare. improvements made since then, which include more We pay tribute to those brave families today. doctors and nurses, better record keeping and incident I would especially like to thank Dr Bill Kirkup and reporting, and action to stabilise and improve maternity his expert panel members. This will have been a particularly services, including a major programme of work to difficult report to research and write, but the thoroughness reduce stillbirths. The trust will be re-inspected this and fairness of their analysis will allow us to move summer when an independent decision will be made forward with practical actions to improve safety, not about whether to remove it from special measures. just at Morecambe Bay, but across the NHS. Patients who use the trust will be encouraged that the I know that before we discuss the report in detail the report says it whole House will want to recognise that what we hear “now has the capability to recover and that the regulatory framework today is not typical of NHS maternity services as a has the capacity to ensure that it happens”. whole, where 97% of new mothers report the highest The whole House will want to support front-line staff in levels of satisfaction. Our dedicated midwives, nurses, their commitment and dedication during this difficult obstetricians and paediatricians work extremely long period. hours providing excellent care in the vast majority of More broadly, the report points to important cases. Today’s report is no reflection on their dedication improvements to the regulatory framework, particularly and commitment, but we owe it to all of them to get to at the Care Quality Commission which it says is now the bottom of what happened so we can make sure it never happens again. “capable of effectively carrying out its role as principal quality regulator for the first time…central to this has been the introduction The report found 20 instances of significant or major of a new inspection regime under a new Chief Inspector of failings of care at Furness general hospital, associated Hospitals”. with three maternal deaths and the deaths of 16 babies. As a result of that regime, which is recognised as the It concludes that different clinical care would have toughest and most transparent in the world, 20 hospitals— been expected to prevent the death of one mother and more than 10% of all NHS acute trusts—have so far 11 babies. been put into special measures. Most have seen encouraging The report describes major failures at almost every signs of progress, with documented falls in mortality level. There were mistakes by midwives and doctors, a rates. There remain many areas where improvements in failure to investigate and learn from those mistakes and practice and culture are still needed. Dr Kirkup makes repeated failures to be honest with patients and families, 44 recommendations—18 for the trust to address directly, including the possible destruction of medical notes. and 26 for the wider system. The Government received The report says that the dysfunctional nature of the the report yesterday and will examine the excellent maternity unit should have become obvious in early recommendations in detail before providing a full response 2009, but regulatory bodies including the North West to the House. strategic health authority, the primary care trusts, the There are, however, some actions that I intend to Care Quality Commission, Monitor and the Parliamentary implement immediately. First, the NHS is still much and Health Service Ombudsman failed to work together too slow at investigating serious incidents involving and missed numerous opportunities to address the issue. severe harm or death. The Francis inquiry was published 835 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 836 Bay) Bay) [Mr Jeremy Hunt] or malpractice is investigated. Anyone who is found to have practised unsafely or who covered up mistakes will nine years after the first problems at Mid Staffs, and be held to account, which for the most serious offences today’s report is being published 11 years after the first includes being struck off. The NMC also has the power tragedy at Furness general hospital. The report recommends to pass information to the police if it feels that a much clearer guidelines for standardised incident reporting, criminal offence may have been committed, and it will which I am today asking Dr Mike Durkin, director of not hesitate to do so if its investigations find evidence to patient safety at NHS England, to draw up and publish. warrant that. The Government remain committed to I also believe that the NHS could benefit from a service legislation for further reform of the NMC at the earliest similar to the air accidents investigation branch of the opportunity. Department for Transport. Serious medical incidents The report expresses a “degree of disquiet” over the should continue to be investigated and carried out initial decision of the Parliamentary and Health Service locally, but where trusts feel that they would benefit Ombudsman not to investigate the death of Joshua from an expert independent national team to establish Titcombe. I know the Public Administration Committee facts rapidly on a no-blame basis, they should be able to is already considering these issues, and will want to do so. Dr Durkin will therefore look at the possibility of reflect carefully on the report as it considers improvements setting up such a service for the NHS. that can be made as part of its current inquiry. Secondly, although we have made good progress in Finally, I expect the trust to implement all 18 of the encouraging a culture of openness and transparency in recommendations assigned to it in the report. I have the NHS, the report makes clear that there is a long way asked Monitor to ensure that that happens within the to go. It seems that medical notes were destroyed and designated time scale, as I want to give maximum mistakes covered up at Morecambe Bay, quite possibly reassurance to patients and families who are using the because of a defensive culture where the individuals hospital that no time is being wasted in learning necessary involved thought that they would lose their jobs if they lessons. We should recognise that despite many challenges, were discovered to have been responsible for a death. NHS staff have made excellent progress recently in Within sensible professional boundaries, however, no improving the quality of care, with the highest ever one should lose their job for an honest mistake made ratings from the public for safety and compassionate with the best of intentions; the only cardinal offence is care. The tragedy we hear about today must strengthen not to report that mistake openly so that the correct our resolve to deliver real and lasting culture change so lessons can be learned. that these mistakes are never repeated. That is the most Recent recommendations from Sir Robert Francis on important commitment we can make to the memory of creating an open and honest reporting culture in the the 19 mothers and babies who lost their lives at Morecambe NHS will begin to improve that, and I have today asked Bay, including those named in today’s report: Elleanor Professor Sir Bruce Keogh, medical director of NHS Bennett, Joshua Titcombe, Alex Brady-Davey, Nittaya England, to review the professional codes of both doctors Hendrickson and Chester Hendrickson. This statement and nurses, and to ensure that the right incentives are in is their legacy, and I commend it to the House. place to prevent people from covering up instead of reporting and learning from mistakes. Sir Bruce led the 1.58 pm seminal Keogh inquiry into hospitals with high death rates two years ago that led to a lasting improvement in Andy Burnham (Leigh) (Lab): I thank the Secretary hospital safety standards and has long championed of State for his well-judged statement, and echo entirely openness and transparency in health care. For this vital the sentiments he expressed. Families in Barrow and the work he will lead a team that will include the Professional wider Cumbria area were badly let down by their local Standards Authority for Health and Social Care, the hospital and by the NHS as a whole. The Secretary of General Medical Council, the Nursing and Midwifery State was right to apologise to them on behalf of the Council, and Health Education England, and he will Government and the NHS, and today I do the same on report back to the Health Secretary later this year. behalf of the previous Government. The report also exposed systemic issues about the It is hard to imagine what it must be like to lose a quality of midwifery supervision. While the investigation child or partner in such circumstances, but to have that was under way, the King’s Fund conducted a review of suffering intensified by the actions of the NHS is midwifery regulation for the NMC, which recommended inexcusable. Bereaved families should never again have that effective local supervision needs to be carried out to fight in the way that these families have had to fight by individuals wholly independent from the trust they to get answers. The fact that they have found the strength are supervising. The Government will work closely and courage to do so will benefit others in years to with stakeholders to agree a more effective oversight come, and I pay tribute to them all, and particularly to arrangement, and will legislate accordingly. I have asked James Titcombe. for proposals on the new system by the end of July this This report finally gives the families the answers that year. they should have received many years ago. It explains in For too long the NMC had the wrong culture and detail what went wrong, the appalling scale of the was too slow to take action, but I am encouraged that it failings and, as the Secretary of State said, the opportunities has recently made improvements. Today it has apologised missed to identify those failings and put them right. to the families affected by events at Morecambe Bay, I echo the Secretary of State’s praise for Dr Bill and it is investigating the fitness to practise of seven Kirkup, his investigation team and the panel that midwives who worked at the trust during that time. It assisted them. The report’s analysis is thorough, and its will now forensically go through any further evidence recommendations are powerful but proportionate. The gathered by the investigation, to ensure that any wrongdoing Opposition support all the recommendations made today. 837 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 838 Bay) Bay) I understand that the Secretary of State will want to Secretary of State agree that the journey of improvement take time to consider each individually, but he can rely at the regulator needs to continue, and that there is a on our full support in introducing them at the earliest need for further reform? Will he ensure that NHS opportunity. England draws up the recommended protocol on the People’s first concern will be whether local services roles and responsibilities for all parts of the oversight are safe today. The report identifies the root cause of system without delay, and does he agree that the CQC the failures as a dysfunctional local culture and a failure should take prime responsibility? to follow national clinical guidance. There are suggestions I want to close by focusing on two proposals that I in the report that that culture has not entirely disappeared. believe get to the heart of the matter before us. I have The report finds: thought carefully about how we truly do justice to the “we…heard from some of the long-standing clinicians that relations families’ campaign and learn the lessons of both this with midwives had not improved and had possibly deteriorated investigation and the Francis report. In my view, the over the last two to three years…we saw and heard evidence that answer is a much more rigorous system of the review of untoward incidents with worryingly similar features to those seen all deaths in the community and in hospitals than previously had occurred as recently as mid-2014.” currently exists. I am sure the fact that problems have been acknowledged First, is the reform of death certification and the means that there has already been significant improvement, introduction a new system of independent medical but will the Secretary of State say more about those examination well overdue? The Kirkup report echoes findings, and about what steps he is taking to ensure findings that go back as far as Dame Janet Smith’s that the trust now has the right staff and safety culture? inquiry into the Shipman murders, which were repeated After safety, people will rightly want accountability, recently by Sir Robert Francis in his two reports on Mid as the Secretary of State said, not just for the care Staffordshire. The previous Government legislated for failings, but for the fact that the problem was kept those reforms and made provision for the independent hidden from the regulators and the public for so long. scrutiny by a medical examiner of all deaths that are not When information came to light, it was not acted on. referred to a coroner. That has been piloted and proven Lessons were not learned, and problems were not corrected. to be effective. The investigation says that those reforms The investigation recommends that the trust formally could have raised concerns at Morecambe Bay before apologises to those affected. The whole House will they eventually became evident. endorse that call, and will want it done both appropriately The second point is that we need a better system for and immediately. Further, will the Secretary of State scrutinising deaths in hospital. The report recommends ensure that any further referrals to the GMC and NMC mandatory reporting and investigation of serious incidents are made without delay? Will he also ensure that of all maternal deaths, stillbirths and unexpected neonatal any managerial or administrative staff found guilty of deaths. Is there not a case to go further, including by wrongdoing are subject to appropriate action? A number looking at moving to a mandatory review of case notes of staff have left the trust in recent years, many with for every death in hospital, and at how we can use a pay-offs. Will he review those decisions in the light of standardised system of case note review to support the report and take whatever steps he can to ensure that learning and improvement at every trust? those who have failed are not rewarded? To help to guide the Opposition’s new approach to One of the central findings of the investigation is on quality improvement, Professor Nick Black has agreed the challenges faced by geographically remote and isolated to advise us and inform the review, which will be concluded communities in providing health services. The investigation by the end of the month. In our view, that reform is warns of the risks of a closed clinical culture in which much needed, because rather than looking at a sample “practice can ‘drift’ away from standards and procedures found of deaths to avoid harm, we would look at every single elsewhere”. death to learn lessons, which means that every single Is not the report right to recommend a national review person matters. Ideally, the review should be cross-party. of maternity care and paediatrics in rural and isolated I hope the Secretary of State feels able to endorse the areas, and will the Secretary of State take that forward? review I have announced, which will make recommendations Alongside that, there are concerns about the sustainability that the next Government can act on immediately. Is of the Cumbrian health economy. My hon. Friend the that not the best way to do justice to the issues that the Member for Copeland (Mr Reed) has today written to families have fought to raise, and to ensure that the the chief executive of NHS England to call for a review legacy of their campaign is to ensure that no others go of the specific challenges it faces. I hope the Secretary through what they have gone through? of State will be sympathetic to that call. On the CQC, the role of the regulator has always Mr Hunt: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his been to oppose poor care and challenge practice, but it measured tone. I am sure he is absolutely sincere in is clear that it failed in its duty in this case. Given what wanting to learn from this tragedy. I thank him for his was known, the decision to register the trust without moving words and for his apology. He will understand conditions in April 2010 was inexplicable, as was the that there is nervousness among the families because, in decision to award foundation trust status later in 2010, the past, when the Government have talked about rooting as was the decision to inspect emergency care pathways out poor care, we have been accused of running down but not maternity services—in so doing, it failed to act the NHS. We have had a different tone today, and I on specific warnings. As the report states, there was and welcome it. remains confusion in the system over who has overall To answer the right hon. Gentleman’s specific points responsibility for monitoring standards, with overlapping on the quality of care at the hospital currently, the best regulatory responsibilities. The Opposition support moves person and people to make that judgment are the new CQC to make the CQC more independent, but does the and chief inspector of hospitals, Professor Sir Mike 839 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 840 Bay) Bay) [Mr Jeremy Hunt] Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con): As a Member of Parliament for an area covered by the Richards. He has said that, in his view, the care at the trust, I assure the Secretary of State that many thousands maternity unity in Furness general hospital is good, and of workers in the NHS in my area do a really good job indeed safe—it is more than safe; it is good. That in very difficult geographical circumstances. should reassure many people who are using the hospital. I was newly elected to Parliament in 2010. My experience, He is also very clear that there are many, many alongside that of colleagues whom I see in the House, as improvements to make, and his overall rating for the a constituency MP dealing with the huge institution trust is not good. The report highlights many areas that that is the NHS has been that it is difficult to find out still need to be addressed, but it is important to give that who is responsible, where and for what. Like everybody reassurance. else, my heart goes out to the parents. I do not know On death certification, I assure the right hon. Gentleman how they have struggled on, with their loss and with that we fully support that policy. As he knows, it was being confronted with what almost seems like a professional recommended in January 2005, so it has taken a long or administrative closing of ranks and doors to their time for both Governments to address. We fully support pleas for some information on what happened. It is just the policy and have had successful trials. We are committed unbelievable. to introducing it as soon as possible and we want to go My constituents do not understand why—this is further. There may be some common ground, because mentioned in the report—a major incident in 2004 was we, too, have been talking to Professor Nick Black not looked at. There were five more major incidents in about case note reviews. The latest advice I have had is 2006-07 and another five in 2008, yet still nothing was that it would be technically very difficult to review the done. What will the Secretary of State do to reassure my case notes of all the 250,000 deaths every year in NHS constituents that when a major incident happens again—as hospitals, because of the resource implications and the presumably it could in any NHS hospital across the doctors’ time it would take. I asked whether it would be country—it will be acted on? possible to do that. I was advised that, if we looked at case notes hospital by hospital, there would be a risk of trusts getting into big disputes about whether or not a Mr Hunt: I am happy to do that. In fact, I can not death was avoidable. I asked Professor Black to help me only tell my hon. Friend what we are going to do, I can to devise a methodology so that we can assess the level tell him what we have done. The main purpose of the of avoidable deaths by hospital trust. We would be the new CQC inspection regime, with a chief inspector of first health economy in the world to do that. I hope we hospitals and a special measures regime, is to make sure will have his full support as we take that forward. that these issues come to light much more quickly. The On the decision to give the trust foundation trust new regime has been very active: 20 trusts—more than status, the report makes it clear that Ministers were 10% of all trusts in the NHS—have gone into special advised that they had no locus to intervene, because the measures. We have seen dramatic improvements. process had already been set in train—because the I would like to make a broader point to my hon. decision had been deferred but not stopped, they were Friend’s constituents. He speaks very wisely when he not able to intervene. It is clear that the level of knowledge says that this is not about the dedication and commitment in the Department of Health, as in the rest of the of front-line staff. He is absolutely right. The Royal system, was wholly inadequate given what was happening Lancaster infirmary is not the main focus of the Kirkup in that hospital. report, but of course as part of the same trust it suffered from the same management failings. There are I should like to make one other point, on a comment Members of this House who have had problems at the made by Labour this morning that the report would say Royal Lancaster infirmary and found that they were not that the failings were very localised. In fact, the report listened to when they made complaints, because proper says the opposite. I want to read what Dr Kirkup says in management was not in place. That will have affected the introduction to the report: his constituents. I hope they will take encouragement “It is vital that the lessons, now plain to see, are learnt and from the changes that have happened recently in that acted upon, not least by other Trusts, which must not believe that regard. ‘it could not happen here’.” It is important that we take that lesson from the report John Woodcock (Barrow and Furness) (Lab/Co-op): extremely seriously. I thank the Secretary of State for the dignified and I would like to finish on a note of consensus. I fitting way in which he was able to name some of the appreciate that it is not always easy for Oppositions to grieving parents and the babies they lost. We cannot support the Government publicly as they put right escape the painful conclusion from the report that our policy mistakes that they have inherited, but I think hospital was compromised by some shocking failures in there is one thing where we can make common ground: care and a deeply inappropriate defensiveness from the need for culture change in the NHS. Policies can be certain individuals. Does he agree that the scale of changed over one Parliament, but culture change takes failure laid out in the report may well serve to reopen a generation. What the families who have suffered so the criminal investigation? Will he support the healing much want to know more than anything else is that process that is now needed in our community, with Members on all sides of the House are committed to resources if necessary, so that we can move on from that, so that we never again go back to the closed ranks this? Finally, will he set out a timetable by which he will and institutional self-defence that piled agony on to look through all the recommendations and report back their tragedies, and that, once and for all, we all make to the House on whether the Government will accept the commitment that patients will always come first. them? Will that be before the election? 841 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 842 Bay) Bay) Mr Hunt: I do not know the answer to the last do is to ensure that it can draw on medical expertise. It question because we have received the report only very needs to make sure that its culture is as open and recently, but we will do this work as soon as possible. transparent as the culture it would like to see inside the Indeed, if we have cross-party support, it may be that NHS. we can expedite the process. The hon. Gentleman worked very closely with James Titcombe and is absolutely Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): The Secretary of right to talk about the seriousness of what happened. State said that the fitness to practice of seven midwives As with the Francis report, however, I would caution is currently being considered by the National Midwifery against the idea that this problem will be solved if a few Council. Given that this matter goes back over a decade, more nurses are struck off. We need accountability—that were any health professionals, either doctors or nurses, is incredibly important—and where there is wrongdoing, referred to their regulatory bodies during any of the people must be fully held to account. The big lesson is incidents he outlined earlier? the lack of openness, transparency and trust. It is quite possible that the reason some people did not speak out Mr Hunt: I am not aware that they were. If that turns about poor care is that they were frightened of the out to be the case, that would be extremely worrying. consequences of doing so. They thought they would not Since Dr Kirkup started his investigation, he has been be listened to. Other industries, such as the nuclear in touch with the regulatory bodies throughout the industry in which James Titcombe worked or the airline process. He has not waited until today to refer back to industry, have managed to create a culture of trust them any names of people where he thinks there may be where people on the front line who make mistakes feel a concern. able to speak out and be supported if they do so. That is the most important lesson we need to learn from today’s David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con): I report. thank my right hon. Friend for his deep and meaningful statement. In my constituency, the effects of what has Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD): I, happened in our trust have been deeply felt. I would too, want to the thank the Secretary of State and the also like to reach out to my hon. Friend outside the shadow Secretary of State for their entirely appropriate Chamber, the hon. Member for Barrow and Furness contributions, both the statement and the response, on (John Woodcock). We have to put everything behind us. this immensely sensitive and deeply personally upsetting In my constituency, there is a campaign which says that series of circumstances. I want especially to pay tribute the hospital is closing. The staff and the new management to the families who lost loved ones as a result of what are beside themselves on this particular issue. Does my Dr Kirkup referred to as right hon. Friend agree that this has now got to stop? “serious failures of clinical care”. Hospitals and A and Es were never going to close down. At the end of the day, the staff are the only He refers to the report as a damning indictment. people who are going to suffer in all this. The dignity and determination of parents such as James Titcombe and Carl Hendrickson have led to this Mr Hunt: I think this is a time when the whole House awful truth being laid bare today. Those parents are an needs to unite behind the staff in that trust, who are inspiration to me, and they should be to all of us. I want working very hard to turn the situation around; indeed, to pick up on one point in particular that was raised they have made great progress. I had to call Nicola during the Secretary of State’s statement. Dr Kirkup Adam of The Visitor to reaffirm the point that there are expresses disquiet that the NHS and the parliamentary absolutely no plans to close the hospital. I hope the ombudsman chose not even to investigate what has now whole House will recognise that statement for what it is been shown to be the needless deaths of at least 11 babies and that hon. Members will reiterate it in all their and at least one mother. May I press the Secretary of communications with their constituents. State to go further than he has in his statement and do everything in his power to ensure that the watchdog for Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I thank the patients is not a lapdog for senior managers? Patients Secretary of State and my right hon. Friend the Member need a powerful, effective independent investigator who for Leigh (Andy Burnham) for the tone of the statement listens to those who grieve, like the Morecambe Bay and the Opposition’s response. I want to ask the Secretary families, and not one who dismisses them without even of State about the point he made in his statement about an investigation. the relationship between clinicians and midwives, which Dr Kirkup identified as having deteriorated over the Mr Hunt: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. There last two or three years. He said that there was evidence were, clearly, very serious flaws in the way the Parliamentary of untoward incidents, with worryingly similar features and Health Service Ombudsman operated, particularly to those that had previously occurred, as recently as last in the case of Joshua Titcombe. My hon. Friend will year. The Secretary of State mentioned extra numbers, know that the PHSO is accountable to this House but is he confident that the relationship between midwives through the Public Administration Committee, and not and doctors is now resolved and that we have safe care through the Government and the Department of Health. at that particular hospital and elsewhere? The Public Administration Committee is considering this issue in a great deal of detail to see what lessons Mr Hunt: I think we can trust the CQC’s view that need to be learned. I think one of the issues is the level the care in the maternity unit is safe, but the hon. of expertise within the PHSO and, with the greatest of Gentleman is absolutely right to draw attention to the respect, a certain lack of confidence in its ability to issue of the barriers between doctors and midwives, understand when there has been a clinical failure. I which is striking. That goes back a very long time: there think everyone agrees that one of the things we need to seemed to be a kind of macho culture among the 843 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 Maternity Services (Morecambe 844 Bay) Bay) [Mr Jeremy Hunt] to ask the Secretary of State again: will he ensure that achieving the highest standard of complaints handling midwives to do with not letting the doctors in, which is included in the next NHS mandate? probably led to babies needlessly dying, which is the great tragedy. Making sure that that culture is changed, Mr Hunt: No one has done more than the right hon. so that the patient’s needs are always put first, is obviously Lady to try to improve the standard for complaints, a massive priority. I know that the trust has made great with the excellent work she did with Professor Tricia strides in that area, but we all understand too that it Hart. We are in the process of implementing her takes time to change culture, and we need to support recommendations, but as the right hon. Lady knows, it as it goes on that journey. with the fifth largest organisation in the world, it is one thing to make a commitment in this place, but another Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): I join the Secretary to make it happen on the ground. There is definitely of State in paying tribute to James Titcombe and all the much work to do. families who have fought so long for answers. I also I also agree with the right hon. Lady’s comments thank Dr Kirkup for his excellent report. I welcome the about James Titcombe. This is a man who gave up his action that the Secretary of State has announced today, job working in the nuclear industry to come down to but can he add to that list by saying whether we can London and work in the CQC so that he could actively bring forward having medical examiners to look into be part of the culture change that he wanted to see in the cause of death before the end of this Parliament the NHS. I do not think anyone could have done more and, if not, say what the barriers to introducing that than that. It is truly remarkable. much overdue reform are? Will he also touch on As the right hon. Lady has mentioned Wales, let me recommendations 20 and 21 in the report, which refer say that we have put 20 trusts into special measures in to the need for a national review of maternity and England and it is inconceivable that there will not be paediatric services in areas that are remote, isolated and trusts with similar problems in Wales. I urge her to hard to recruit to? Indeed, the report goes further and encourage the Labour party in Wales to look at introducing says that the problem extends beyond those services. a special measures regime and a chief inspector of This is an issue we need to address to improve safety hospitals in Wales, because that has had such a powerful without deterring recruitment in these areas. effect on improving standards of care in England.

Mr Hunt: I am afraid I can only commit now to us Mr (Harwich and North Essex) (Con): introducing independent medical examiners as soon as I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement and possible. We are wholeheartedly committed to this. It is Dr Bill Kirkup for his excellent report. Let me reassure incredibly important for relatives, because where they him and the House that the Public Administration have a concern about a death and possibly a mistake Select Committee is also preoccupied with the failings being made in someone’s care in their final hours, the of the parliamentary and health service ombudsman in availability of an independent examiner has been shown the conduct of these cases. I, too, have met James in the trials we have run to be very effective, so we are Titcombe on many occasions and have been extremely committed to doing that. impressed by his extraordinary commitment to making I should have answered the shadow Health Secretary sure that he is heard so that so many others can be on the point about a review of maternity services, heard. because he raised it as well. NHS England is doing that May I also point out that the report reeks of the review; we have already announced that to this House. confusion that exists between CQC and the PHSO Today it is publishing the terms of reference of that about what their respective responsibilities are? If we review. That is important, because there has been a big are talking about accountability, what we need is an debate inside the health service—a debate with which organisation that is accountable for investigating clinical many people will be familiar—about what the minimum incidents in the NHS, whether they are down to particular appropriate size for maternity and birthing units is, and local problems or broader systemic problems—by which we need to get to the bottom of the latest international we mean not that that is an excuse for what goes wrong; evidence. rather, it is so those systemic problems can be put right. I therefore very much welcome what my right hon. Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab): During the period Friend has mooted will be the task of Sir Mike Durkin: when I was writing the report on complaints in hospitals, to look at how that capacity can be developed, in the I met Mr Titcombe. I was impressed by his persistence, same manner, perhaps, as the air accidents investigation because persistence is what anyone who is trying to branch of the Department for Transport. tackle a complaint needs. I understand what he means when he says he is haunted by personal grief: I think of Mr Hunt: Dr Mike Durkin will be delighted that he all those parents and relatives who have waited all this has been promoted and given a knighthood for his time to try to get some answers to their questions. The wonderful work on patient safety, but it has not happened length of time it takes to answer people’s complaints is yet, even though he certainly deserves it. I thank my still not satisfactory. I myself have waited over two hon. Friend for his understanding of the complexity of years and three months and I still do not have answers—I these issues and the importance of the need for culture know that is not in his bag, but it is generally true of the change. The work of his Committee has not been to whole of the United Kingdom. I support what my right scratch around the surface; it has tried to think hard hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State said in about the solution. He is absolutely right that we need calling for the medical scrutiny of all deaths that are not to end regulatory confusion. We now have a strong referred to a coroner. That is an important point. I want CQC, which is doing incredible inspections and is trusted 845 Maternity Services (Morecambe 3 MARCH 2015 846 Bay) across the system. However, we need a system in which Ebbsfleet people can get independent external advice quickly, which is why he was right to alert me to the potential of 2.30 pm an air accidents investigation branch equivalent. I hope that is something that could be helpful for the ombudsman The Minister of State, Department for Communities as well. and Local Government (): Hon. Members will be aware of the Government’s ambition to create a Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton) (Lab): I am new garden city at Ebbsfleet and of our intention to pleased that the Secretary of State has declared his establish an urban development corporation to drive intention to implement the medical examination review. forward its development and delivery. I would like to The president of the Royal College of Pathologists, take this opportunity to update hon. Members on the Dr Suzy Lishman, has said that introducing such a progress we have made. system would This country has faced a shortfall in housing for “improve patient care whilst reducing harm and saving money”. many years, with young people and families struggling to find the homes they want and need, particularly in She went on: the south-east. We are committed to increasing their “If bereaved relatives get the answers that they need around chances, and our programmes to accelerate house building the time of death, if all their questions are answered then, then are already seeing results. Our £1.5 billion large sites they don’t feel the need to sue the NHS to get the answers they deserve.” programme is expected to unlock 100,000 homes by the end of this month, and a further 200,000 homes could She has also said that it is “incomprehensible” that the be unlocked as we take the programme forward. This is recommended changes have not been implemented. Will in addition to the plans in place to create housing zones the Secretary of State explain why there has been so on brownfield sites across the country. much delay? From his answer to a previous question, I Last year, we published our prospectus for locally led understand that he is not able to commit to implementing garden cities, and we are now working closely to support the reforms during the time of this Government. the development of a new garden town at Bicester, with a capacity to deliver up to 13,000 new homes. Our Mr Hunt: With the greatest respect, I say to the hon. approach is locally led. We invite local areas to come Lady that if she is suggesting that we have done nothing forward, without any top-down, centrally imposed on this important issue over the last few years, nothing requirements. This approach will help make new garden could be further from the truth. We have been trialling cities acceptable locally—and, as such, to make them a the right system; we think the trials have worked; and reality. we want to make sure that we implement this in a way that is consistent with the many other things we are With close transport links and large areas of brownfield doing to improve patient safety, including proper case-note land, the Ebbsfleet area has huge potential as a place to reviews of deaths in order to understand the level of deliver a substantial number of new homes. It has long avoidable hospital deaths and what we can do to bring been identified—in fact, as far back as the last Government’s the rates down. This is a priority for the Government, sustainable communities plan—as an ideal location for and we remain wholly committed to it. major development. Despite these ambitions, progress has been slow, and Ebbsfleet remains largely undeveloped. Our plans for Ebbsfleet aim to change that and to drive forward this historic development opportunity. In last year’s Budget, the Government announced plans to create a new locally led garden city at Ebbsfleet, Kent, capable of providing up to 15,000 new homes predominantly on brownfield land or former quarries. The Government are seeking not only to increase the pace of development, but to create high-quality development. We want to build homes that are supported by local employment opportunities, green space and the necessary infrastructure, so that Ebbsfleet becomes a place where people want to live, work and raise their families. To help realise this vision, the Government have announced that up to £200 million of infrastructure funding will be made available to support delivery. We also announced that a new statutory body—an urban development corporation—would be formed to bring real focus on driving forward delivery. Since then, we have been working closely with each of the three local authorities and other partners on the preparatory work to establish the urban development corporation and to set the scene for the future garden city. I put on record the fact that I welcome the cross-party support that the Opposition have given to these proposals. I am pleased to report that house building is already under way in some parts of the proposed garden city. Last October, I opened the first phase of housing being 847 Ebbsfleet3 MARCH 2015 Ebbsfleet 848

[Brandon Lewis] way. These will be in addition to the local authority representatives from Dartford, Gravesham and Kent led by Ward Homes at Castle Hill. Just today, Land who, as we have already made clear, will have a seat on Securities exchanged contracts with Persimmon Homes the board. for the next phase of 170 homes at Castle Hill. Much The urban development corporation will develop a remains to be done to increase the rate of development shared vision and master-plan for the locally led garden at Ebbsfleet, but this is welcome progress none the less. city that reflects the views of the local people. Much can In August last year, we consulted on the proposal to be done in the meantime to set in place the foundations set up an urban development corporation. We set out for this work, and to provide a platform from which the powers that we propose the corporation should the urban development corporation can work. We are have, including compulsory purchase powers, the transfer progressing with the production of a development of the planning management powers that are currently framework for the area. This will provide critical baseline exercised by the local authorities and, of course, the data and act as the starting-point for the design of the ability to invest money to secure the regeneration of future Ebbsfleet garden city. the area. In parallel, we are preparing the procurement process In our consultation, we asked for views on the area in for a full master-plan, which can then be taken forward which the urban development corporation would operate, by the urban development corporation. We want the on the planning powers it would be granted, and on the design of the garden city to be as collaborative as composition of the board. The consultation was supported possible. We will therefore use this preparatory work to by an active engagement campaign, and the results make sure that future master-planning is carried out in demonstrated overall support for the proposal to create a way that encourages the full participation of the local a development corporation for Ebbsfleet. In December communities and local businesses. last year, we published our response to the consultation, We recognise that there is likely to be a transition which confirmed our intention to continue with the period between the establishment of the urban development proposal to establish a development corporation at corporation and the point at which it will be fully Ebbsfleet. resourced to operate as the local planning authority. We Although supportive, the consultation did highlight are therefore working closely with the local authorities some areas of concern, such as the impact of development to agree and put in place a service level agreement, on existing infrastructure. These issues were not which will enable the local authorities to administer the unanticipated, and we announced in the autumn statement planning service for the urban development corporation that there would be a review of the transport provision for a transitional period to ensure a smooth handover for the Ebbsfleet area. The Government also announced and to develop a partnership to deliver a locally led in the autumn statement the provision of the first garden city. We are pushing forward with the final key £100 million to fund infrastructure and land remediation stages of the physical set-up of the urban development to kick-start development—obviously subject to due corporation, putting in place the accommodation and diligence. We are working closely with local partners to technical facilities needed to ensure that the UDC is understand the scale of the infrastructure required and fully resourced and equipped to undertake its objectives. how best to accelerate delivery. Hon. Members will be aware that the Government We want to ensure that, on establishment, the urban tabled in the other place an amendment to the Deregulation development corporation has in place the tools necessary Bill to change the parliamentary approval procedure to enable it to hit the ground running. It is crucial that from affirmative to negative for the establishment of the urban development corporation is able to pick up urban development areas and urban development the reins from the local authorities and deliver its objectives corporations. This amendment was accepted, and is seamlessly, without causing any unnecessary uncertainty now part of the Deregulation Bill. I should like to place among local communities and local businesses. on record my thanks to the hon. Members for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) and for In August last year, we appointed Michael Cassidy Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) and the as the chairman designate. He was the chairman of the shadow Secretary of State for their participation in City of London property investment board, and has discussions about how to proceed on this matter. I extensive experience in a range of roles across the know that they share my wish to see this proposal make business and industry sectors. Since his appointment, progress. The Government intend, subject to Parliamentary he has actively engaged with local partners and the approval, to lay a negative statutory instrument immediately major landowners to develop a shared understanding of following Royal Assent to establish the urban development the work required to drive forward development. corporation. A separate order to grant the corporation More recently, we launched the recruitment process planning functions, making it the local planning authority for a permanent chief executive. However, as this post responsible for the development of the area, will be laid will take some months to fill, we are appointing key at the same time. interim personnel to maintain momentum and continuity. I trust that that update will reassure Members of the These interim posts will, in the meantime, continue to Government’s commitment to creating a locally led garden drive forward not only the set-up of the urban development city at Ebbsfleet that will be fit for the 21st century. corporation, but progress on the work to develop a shared strategy for the garden city. 2.40 pm We have made progress, too, on the process to recruit, through open competition, the remainder of the urban Emma Reynolds (Wolverhampton North East) (Lab): development corporation’s board members. Some I thank the Minister for his statement, and for giving 90 applications were received and interviews are under me advance sight of it. As he said, there is cross-party 849 Ebbsfleet3 MARCH 2015 Ebbsfleet 850 support for the development at Ebbsfleet, and Labour generally. I should also like to know where the additional Members support it strongly. I agree with him that 5,000 new homes have gone. That seems to be something Ebbsfleet has huge potential to deliver a substantial of a mystery. number of homes and an outstanding new community. I welcomed what the Minister said about infrastructure. Having been to Ebbsfleet, I have seen with my own The Government said last year that, once established, eyes not just the opportunities that it offers but its the Ebbsfleet UDC would be expected to identify sources terrain, which presents significant challenges. We want of additional funding, further to the funding for basic to see a new generation of garden cities and new towns, infrastructure that had already been announced. Will and we believe that Ebbsfleet could make an important the Minister tell us how much additional funding he contribution to such a programme. That is why, as the and his Department think might be necessary to get the Minister said, we have sought to work with the Government Ebbsfleet project moving, and whether its source in either constructively and on a cross-party basis to deliver the the private or the public sector has been identified? UDC. As the Minister also said, my hon. Friend the The garden city movement which was founded by Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman-Woods) Ebenezer Howard has a long and proud history of participated actively in the discussions with the Government, promoting and providing outstanding places for people and is strongly committed to the delivery of a new to live in. Although I support what the Minister has generation of garden cities. She has spoken about the said today, I am anxious for the founding principles subject eloquently, in the House and elsewhere. of the movement to be respected, albeit in a modern We naturally welcome the forming of an urban setting. Perhaps the Minister will explain why he did development corporation to drive this development forward, not mention affordable housing, and why his predecessor but we are concerned about the use of UDCs to deliver told my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham in a full programme of garden cities. As the Minister a written parliamentary answer that knows, they are not set up to deliver garden city principles, “The Government do not impose a particular level of affordable which is why we pressed for the inclusion of a sunset housing for housing schemes.”—[Official Report, 9 April 2014; Vol. 579, c. 239W.] clause. I am pleased that agreement was reached on that. Can the Minister reassure us that the master plan will include a commitment to a significant proportion of Although I welcome the Government’s initiative in affordable homes? If it does not, I fear that there will establishing the UDC over the past five years, it would not be much garden to the garden city. The Government’s be remiss of me not to mention the number of mixed garden city prospectus invited communities to come up messages that we have received in regard to both Ebbsfleet with proposals, or “big and bold” projects, as the Deputy and garden cities more broadly. In 2011 the then Housing Prime Minister called them. Will the Minister tell us Minister, the right hon. Member for Welwyn Hatfield how many bids have been submitted so far? (Grant Shapps), spoke of rebooting garden cities, and in 2012 the Prime Minister announced that he would Let me end by echoing what the Minister said about publish a consultation on garden cities by the end of the securing the Ebbsfleet development. This is a long-term year. Six months later, the Deputy Prime Minister said project which presents significant challenges but also that some lively debate was taking place within the has huge potential, and, as such, it requires a long-term Government, but promised incentives that would deliver approach from Members in all parts of the House. On projects that were “big and bold”. In December 2012, that basis, I welcome the fact that we have reached the Government announced that Ebbsfleet would be cross-party agreement. the site for a large-scale development of 20,000 new homes. Brandon Lewis: I thank the hon. Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) for Subsequently, however, rather than seeing the “big expressing what could broadly be described as cross-party and bold” projects that had been promised, we saw support. She did, however, ask a couple of questions, reports in the newspapers that the Prime Minister was and mentioned the pace at which the garden city programme suppressing a document and had gone cold on the idea. had proceeded. She was absolutely right to refer to the Later that year, the Housing Minister said that he was terrain at Ebbsfleet. I think that anyone who watches not aware of a report that was supposed to have been our exchanges, or reads the Hansard report, and wonders published, but the Deputy Prime Minister said that why it has taken so long for us to reach this point needs there was a prospectus, and that the Government should to be aware of a couple of facts. I shall explain in a be honest about their intentions. The Secretary of State moment how the programme has been structured in the then contradicted his own Housing Minister, saying past, but there is no doubt that the terrain is an important that his Department had told him that there was a element. Ebbsfleet is an astonishing place to visit: a report, but not a report from the Department for map simply does not do justice to its contours and Communities and Local Government. We were a little topography. bemused by all that. However, a prospectus for garden At one point, the hon. Lady asked how much garden cities was finally published, and in last year’s Budget there would be in a garden city. We want to deliver statement the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced something of which we can all be proud. We need to that there would be a new garden city at Ebbsfleet have a vision of the way in which not just community containing 15,000 homes—5,000 fewer than had been housing but real communities should be built. That promised in 2012. means ensuring that there is the right mix of residential, Given the scale of the housing crisis and the evident retail, commercial and open space for people to enjoy, cross-party support for garden cities, I should like to so that they can get to know their neighbours and be know what is behind the Government’s stops and starts part of a strong community. The community must be at on the Ebbsfleet initiative and on garden cities more the forefront of this project. 851 Ebbsfleet3 MARCH 2015 Ebbsfleet 852

[Brandon Lewis] that and that local people will have an input into how that money will be spent? It appears that the Opposition We opted for an urban development corporation in want another 5,000 homes in the garden city. Does the this case—with Opposition support—because three local Minister agree that we do not judge a good housing authorities and various landowners were involved. In project on the number of homes we are able to cram fact, the Government have a small landholding interest. into a particular area? That makes the position very complex. The hon. Lady said that it had taken several years Brandon Lewis: My hon. Friend has been a strong for us to make progress. As she knows, we have been proponent not just of Ebbsfleet more generally but, as I dealing with a legislative process over the past few saw on a couple of visits with him to his area, of months, since last year’s Budget statement. I found her making sure that this development is done in a way that comments slightly ironic. Let me politely suggest that is conducive to, works with and delivers for, the local she might like to stand up and name some of the community, recognising not just the community we eco-towns that have not been built since they were want to build, but the communities and local authorities announced by the last Government. that are already in the area within the constituencies We are now able to deliver on the garden city principles, of my hon. Friends the Members for Gravesham at Ebbsfleet, at Bicester—which I visited again just last (Mr Holloway) and for Dartford (). My week—and in other areas because ours is not a top-down hon. Friend the Member for Dartford has also worked approach. We are not making decisions from on high; closely with the local authorities who have their own local authorities are coming to us and saying that they affordable housing policies, which will be what govern want to develop on the basis of those principles. It takes the development of that area. Both of those authorities time for authorities to get organised and prepare to are clearly looking to secure a level of 30% of affordable submit their proposals to the Government, but I think housing, and I can assure my hon. Friend that today’s that that is right. The longevity of delivery that the hon. statement does not change what was said at the Budget Lady rightly mentioned enables long-term plans to be last year or the finances announced in the autumn developed properly, and to be locally designed, locally statement—I know that he has worked hard on that supported and locally proposed. with his local residents and authorities. It stays in place, The hon. Lady referred to funding more generally, as was. What we are doing today is giving an update, in and to affordable housing. I repeat that ours is not a particular on the development and the incorporation of top-down approach. Once the urban development that corporation. corporation has been set up, it will become the planning authority, and levels of affordable housing and section 106 Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): agreements are a matter for planning authorities. On In welcoming the statement as the MP for Letchworth the basis of localism, we let the local authorities deal garden city, the world’s first, may I wish Ebbsfleet well? with such matters, and I trust them to do so. Some Does the Minister agree that the principles of garden agreements are already in place, and are delivering cities—mixed tenure, a scheme of building that maintains substantial infrastructure and section 106 agreements garden city features over time, the features themselves, for the area. with allotments, space, commons, an agricultural area In terms of the total cost of development at Ebbsfleet, nearby, and separation of areas between residential, developing a prioritised infrastructure list will be one of employment land and retail—can be applied not just to the first tasks the development corporation will be larger communities of 15,000 or 20,000, but to smaller taking forward. In advance of it even being established, communities too? In Hertfordshire we are looking at—the we have been working with partners to identify the key MPs are anyway—possibly pushing North Herts district items of infrastructure needed to support development. council to go for a garden city or town that might be We do not yet have a total cost for the infrastructure smaller than 10,000. Does the Minister agree that almost because there will be many items that partners would any size of community can be planned on garden city want us to consider and include, and the development lines? corporation needs to be the body that looks carefully both at what infrastructure is needed to support the Brandon Lewis: My hon. and learned Friend makes a garden city development and who should pay for it. Of very good point. One point I have made at various course, much of the infrastructure building work will be recent events is that we must make sure as we move paid for by developers, not by the Government or the forward that we build good-quality design, not just lots development corporation directly. That is where the and lots of housing estates. There are two reasons for section 106 agreements that are already in place, and that. If we want people to be more accepting of those that are developed for the major developments development, not only have we got to make sure that with outline planning consent, will take us forward. people are involved in that through local plans and neighbourhood planning, but the development they see Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con): Ebbsfleet in my in their area must be of good quality. That requires Dartford constituency is home to some very ambitious good-quality design not just of the properties but the housing projects. The full potential of the area will not overall master plan. My hon. and learned Friend is be realised without proper investment and commitment absolutely right that having even small areas developed to the infrastructure, not just of the garden city but the where, when possible and appropriate, there is a good surrounding area. The Minister mentioned that the mix of retail, commercial and residential, with good Chancellor announced £200 million of investment at open space and good community areas, bringing people the last Budget. Will the Minister give my constituents a together, does not just deliver good-quality homes for guarantee that the Government are still committed to people to live in and good-quality places for people to 853 Ebbsfleet 3 MARCH 2015 854 raise their families, but also builds good, strong, long-lasting Housing Ombudsman (Power to Settle communities, and that is something I wholeheartedly Disputes between Neighbours and Tenants) support. Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con): Ebbsfleet is blessed No. 23) in that there is already a Bishop of Ebbsfleet, which must be the first time that the bishop has come before 2.56 pm the city, rather than a city creating a bishop. I want to raise two points. We will not need an urban development Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con): I beg to move, corporation for Bicester. All the land for it lies within That leave be given to bring in a Bill to provide for a discretionary the area of Cherwell district council, and we are determined power to enable the Housing Ombudsman to attempt to resolve disputes between occupants of neighbouring properties in cases to make a success of it, and to make a garden town for where nuisance is caused by tenants; and for connected purposes. the 21st century of which the country can be proud. What we will need, however, is the Ministry of Defence Members will know that houses in multiple occupation to surrender every square foot of MOD land that it —so-called HMOs—are a growing feature of our towns does not need as speedily as possible. As evidence that and cities. Last year there were almost 200,000 in London Cherwell district council is determined to get on with alone, which was a growth of over 10,000 on the previous this as speedily as possible, as my hon. Friend the 12 months. There are now more than 1,000 HMOs in Minister will know but the House may not know, Cherwell my borough of Enfield. Why have we seen this growth? had acquired land to build 1,900 self-build homes. This Often HMOs offer cheaper and flexible accommodation. is an incredibly popular project. Local development They are already a key component of our housing orders are now in place. Queues of people are coming, tapestry. HMOs are also an attractive prospect for private wanting to acquire these plots for self-build homes. landlords. As the website of one property management May I suggest that this project, witnessed by the Prime firm puts it: Minister yesterday, could be rolled out to other parts of “If you have a large property and are renting it out to just one the country, because there is clearly a large appetite tenant, consider transforming it into a HMO or hostel. This gives you the ability to take on more tenants and thus increase your among the public for building their own homes, as we potential for profit.” have seen in Bicester? However, as the website also says: Brandon Lewis: My right hon. Friend has been a loud “If you want to turn your property into a hostel or HMO, and strong proponent of the fantastic work being done there are certain responsibilities you need to consider”, in Bicester and of development on those garden city most of which relate to the condition and safety of the principles, and he is absolutely right. I visited Bicester premises. My Bill seeks to add to those responsibilities, last year and I visited again last week to see the excellent particularly in the field of antisocial behaviour, without work done in just a few months, and the progress made the heavy hand of regulation imposing greater burdens. to deliver the development in a good, strong, community- Some weeks ago a constituent came to me who lives built way. He is right that this shows it does not have next to one of the HMOs managed by the property to be just one type of tenure. We can also develop the management firm to which I have referred. Some of the custom and self-build opportunities, which the hon. tenants, who admitted that they smoked too much Member for Wolverhampton North East (Emma Reynolds) marijuana which made them behave erratically, made and I have agreed on in the House—there is cross-party my constituent’s life a nightmare: scratching their car; agreement—in the last few months. constantly playing loud music; knocking on the doors I would say, however, that we do not do well enough well beyond midnight; and on one occasion smashing in this country in sharing best practice. I advise people up their property. The police and the council batted the across local government who are looking at developments problem between them. My constituent could not, of and how to develop to look at what is happening in course, over a period of time even build any relationships places like Bicester and to talk to those involved. They with the HMO residents, as they are often transient. are strong proponents, they are happy to talk to people, The constituent, who prefers to remain anonymous for and they have done some excellent work that they can reasons the House will understand, has attempted to share with others about how good-quality development resolve the matter themselves. My constituent and their can help build strong communities of which we can all family are responsible, decent and hard-working, and be proud. do not immediately look to others, including the state, to solve their problems, but after weeks of discussion with the occupants and the landlord agent, they saw no progress. The state failed to solve the behavioural issues, and the agent simply recycled the tenants. In a final attempt to resolve the problem, my constituent tried to contact the landlord. The agent would not disclose the landlord’s details. As far as we can tell, they made no effort to arrange a meeting between the neighbours and the landlords. In desperation, my constituent turned to their local MP, and I turned to this Bill. Clearly, the standard rules surrounding antisocial behaviour in private rented accommodation are simply not enough when dealing with packed HMOs. For example, the lengthy process for a neighbour to get a noise abatement notice against a single tenant is often too little, too late. 855 Housing Ombudsman3 MARCH 2015 Housing Ombudsman 856

[Nick de Bois] out. I want to put a stop to the practice by giving neighbours who are the victims of antisocial behaviour Indeed, Mr Deputy Speaker, you will appreciate better the right to deal with the landlord of the property in than anyone the difficulty of controlling antisocial behaviour question. I believe that that will help to resolve the in a crowded House with many unruly occupants, but at problem in a timely fashion. The vast majority of landlords least the boundaries here are clear. are good landlords, and they will want to stop bad Selective licensing of houses in multiple occupation behaviour when they are made aware of it. If there are acknowledges the unique issues and allows local authorities landlords who do not care, the Bill will force them to to crack down on antisocial areas, but as we have heard, take action. In many cases, the neighbours believe that many have failed to do so. However, authority-wide the landlord is not even aware of the problems in the licence zones mean more costs for all landlords, not just property that they have let out. the rogues. We need to give neighbours themselves the This change must be made, however, without getting tools to hold landlords responsible, when appropriate. the ombudsman involved in more generic neighbourhood Put simply, when other steps fail to deal with the disputes. This is not about disputes over high hedges, problem, or when landlord agents simply remove tenants parking or planning. The Bill is not about interfering and replace them with other challenging occupants, with the growth in HMOs. It does not confer rights on there is at present no recourse to the landlord. Landlords neighbours to object to the use of premises as HMOs. do not answer to neighbours for the consequences of Rather, it is about easing the path of reconciliation by contracts they have entered into with agents and tenants. setting out clearly the right to take concerns directly to As we know only too well, antisocial behaviour is landlords when other reasonable steps taken by the often treated as a problem for the victim, and there is no victims have failed. The Bill would hold absentee landlords workable process to deal with the negative externalities responsible for antisocial behaviour without having to that result from contracts being formed. However, the introduce a special licence or blocking the HMO. mediation that I propose, initiated by the ombudsman, Who has not had constituents in their surgeries telling would offer another solution. The Bill sets out a means them that they are facing intolerable quality-of-life issues of giving neighbours the right to seek mediation with because of neighbours from hell? The House should the landlord, if the housing ombudsman agrees. At present, seek to remedy that situation and make it easier for our the ombudsman can instruct mediation only between a constituents who do the right thing, the decent thing, landlord and a tenant. Indeed, the advice from the and who wish to try to solve the problem for themselves. ombudsman states: If we can facilitate that for them, we will be taking a “The first person to tell about a problem with housing is the great step forward. I commend the Bill to the House. landlord. They might be able to put things right.” Question put and agreed to. I could not agree more. I think that the same applies to Ordered, antisocial behaviour next door, but at the moment, it is That Nick de Bois, Mr David Burrowes, Jim Fitzpatrick, extremely difficult to locate and identify a landlord. , , Sir Bob Russell, Mike Freer, Indeed, it is almost impossible when a landlord wishes Mr Lee Scott, Mrs Mary Glindon, Sir , to protect their identity. Graham Stringer and Ms Gisela Stuart present the Bill. The Bill would provide a means of dealing with the Nick de Bois accordingly presented the Bill. disturbing practice of recycling antisocial behaviour, Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on which frankly takes too long for local authorities to sort Friday 27 March, and to be printed (Bill 179). 857 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 858 System) today’s Minister is not the one I have been writing Estimates Day to, but I hope he will engage fully with the detailed and specific recommendations in our report—the [3RD ALLOTTED DAY] Government have failed to do that for nearly a year. The recommendations are important and we hope the ESTIMATES 2014-15 Government are taking them seriously. The report covered a wide range of issues relating to DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS housing costs and the welfare system, but perhaps the most controversial was “social sector size criteria”. We Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System) called it that to try to make it sound more neutral; any other form of words can be emotive, because it is called [Relevant Documents: Fourth Report from the Work and the bedroom tax, the removal of the spare room subsidy Pensions Committee, Session 2013-14, Support for housing or the under-occupancy penalty, depending on one’s costs in the reformed welfare system, HC 720.] political view. However, it is the charge that has meant Motion made, and Question proposed, that social tenants deemed to have more bedrooms than That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure they need have had their housing benefit reduced. The by the Department for Work and Pensions: Government said that the aims of the reform were to (1) further resources, not exceeding £910,407,000 be authorised reduce benefit expenditure, make use of the social housing for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1019, stock and incentivise people to enter work. We actually (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be agreed that using housing stock more effectively and reduced by £6,689,000 as so set out, and reducing overcrowding were understandable goals. The (3) a further sum, not exceeding £2,183,111,000 be granted to question was: were the Government achieving them? Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Although it is true that some reduction in housing Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised benefit has resulted, it is not because people have moved by Parliament.—(Dr Thérèse Coffey.) house and are now more appropriately housed; it is because many people caught by the bedroom tax—the 3.7 pm social sector size criteria—have merely had to subsidise Dame Anne Begg (Aberdeen South) (Lab): I shall their housing costs from other benefit or other income, continue the theme of housing: we have had a statement and so of course it has saved the Government some and a ten-minute rule Bill on housing, and this debate is money. However, we found that many people whom we about the Work and Pensions Select Committee’s report genuinely believe the Government did not want to be on support for housing costs in the reformed welfare caught by the bedroom tax were being affected by it, system. There are two important debates scheduled for and many of them are vulnerable people. As many as this afternoon, but given that we have had two urgent 60% to 70% of households in England affected by the questions and two statements, our deliberations might bedroom tax contain somebody with a disability. have to be somewhat curtailed. The whole idea was that tenants would move to Our report dealt with the series of reforms to housing smaller houses, but we found that not enough smaller benefit and other support to meet housing costs that the houses were available across the country. Some people Government have introduced since 2010. The report might have been able to move into the private rented was published in April last year, and strangely, we have sector, which might have been more expensive for them, been granted a debate on the Floor of the House today but even in that sector not enough suitable accommodation without having received the Government’s response to was available. Others of the vulnerable group were not it. Normally, we would expect a Government response able to respond by finding work, because of their illness to a Select Committee report to be published before any and their disabilities. We also found that a significant such debate is granted. We have been waiting for almost number of people caught by the bedroom tax had a year to receive the Government response. specifically adapted homes, which means that it is difficult As I have said, our report was published in April and expensive for them to move to smaller accommodation. 2014. We have still not received the Government response Whoever came up with the idea that they could do so almost a year later, but that is not for want of trying. In clearly has not been through the process, as I have, of September last year, the Minister for Welfare Reform, trying to find a home that is easily adapted or has been Lord Freud, wrote to me to apologise for the delay, adapted. saying that although the response had been prepared, The only option for many people was to remain in the Department for Work and Pensions was still in the their homes and so have their housing benefit reduced. process of seeking “cross-government clearance” for it. All they could do was make up the shortfall. DWP I do not know whether that means there is a major split research has shown that that often meant cutting down in the coalition over the report; perhaps the Minister on household essentials or borrowing money from family could fill us in on why the Government’s response has and friends. The reduction in housing benefit was not still not made it out of the DWP and into the light of insignificant for those who had no choice but to pay day. up—a 14% cut where the tenant was deemed to be As we still had not received a response by December, under-occupying by one bedroom and a 25% cut where I wrote, with the Committee’s agreement, to the same under-occupation was deemed to be by two or more Minister to ask that a response be submitted as a matter bedrooms. In addition, the deduction is made on the of urgency, but I have still not received reply to that basis of the total rent paid, without regard to the level letter. As you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, effective of housing benefit actually received. Therefore, those Select Committee scrutiny is hampered if the Government in partial receipt of housing benefit would have to pay fail to abide by the agreed process. I appreciate that more proportionately. 859 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 860 System) System) [Dame Anne Begg] someone has to contribute something towards their rent because their housing benefit no longer covers the full The Government’s statistics show that by the end of amount. November 2014 the reduction had been applied to We recommended that the Government should issue nearly half a million claimants and that the average revised guidance to local authorities, making it clear reduction was nearly £15 per week. We found that this that disability benefits should be disregarded in any reform was having a particular impact on people with means tests for DHPs. As yet, we do not know whether disabilities, including those I have mentioned already: that has happened, and I hope that the Minister can tell those who have adapted homes; and people who need a us whether that sensible and modest request by my room to hold medical equipment or to accommodate Select Committee has been put in place. a carer—often a family carer. We recommended that There is also the problem that DHPs were meant to anybody living in a home that has been significantly be temporary and transitional. They were never intended adapted for them should be exempt from having their to provide a long-term solution, which is why we hoped benefit reduced. We also called on the Government to that certain categories of claimants would be exempt. exempt all households that contain a person in receipt That makes far more sense than having claimants apply of higher level disability benefits—disability living allowance every six months, or every year, for a DHP, or for help or the new personal independence payment. towards their housing costs. We are talking about long-term Hon. Members should note our use of the word problems. If a claimant cannot move house or find “exempt”; we wanted those groups of people exempt. work, why is it that they still have to apply for a DHP? The Government’s response is to say, “Oh, but they Local authorities seem unwilling to make longer term don’t have to pay in any case because they have access to awards, so claimants often end up having to re-apply discretionary housing payments.” Given the number of every six or 12 months. Each time a family has to apply people who are reliant on DHPs, there must be something for a DHP, they go through anxiety and uncertainty, wrong with the original policy if so many people have and they never know whether they will get the award to rely on some kind of “transitional” arrangement. this time round. But it is not transitional, simply because there are not We concluded that if DHPs are to continue to be the houses for these people to move to or they cannot used as the main way of mitigating the hardship that move because of the kind of accommodation they the reforms are causing, substantial levels of funding require which does not fit the criteria set down by the will be needed for the foreseeable future. Claimants Government. need to be given certainty that long-term awards are The Government say, as they have been saying for the available. During our inquiry, we visited some people whole year we have been waiting on their response, that who were caught in that particular Catch-22 situation the protection is available through the DHPs. It is true and they really were worried about the future. that the Government have substantially increased the There is also the question whether there is sufficient funding for DHPs, but those payments are awarded by funding for DHPs. Although central funding was increased local authorities to people facing hardship in paying to £165 million in 2014-15, it will go down again to their rent, including tenants affected by the bedroom £125 million in the next financial year—a drop of tax and by the benefit cap, and they are still discretionary. £40 million. During our inquiry, the Government argued Of course, they are also not meant to be long term, as that DHPs were sufficient because local authorities had this is a transitional protection. The other problem is not bid for the full amount of funding that was available, that DHPs are awarded on the basis of eligibility criteria, but we believed—this has been borne out by later which each local authority can set itself. That can create evidence—that that was because the reforms were at an a postcode lottery, and we felt it was important that early stage. Local authorities were still trying to adjust the granting of a DHP should be based on access to the to the changes, and claimants were often not aware that help needed, rather than being dependent on where a DHPs were available. The DWP’s own research found claimant lived. As we often say, any benefit or award that 56% of people who had not applied for DHPs were should be based on need, not on somebody’s postcode. not aware that they existed, but they were as likely as We were also concerned that some local authorities other claimants to report difficulty in paying the rent or are taking income from disability benefits into account being in arrears. in the means tests they apply for determining eligibility We recommended that the Government should review for DHPs. It may be that individual households would the whole DHP provision when more detail was available, qualify normally for a DHP based on just the raw which it must be by now, and increase the funding, but criteria, but when the means test is taken into account we now know that that will be reduced. Obviously, there they do not get it. Members in this House have said that has not been a proper review and, as a result, it will be it did not matter whether an individual or a family was harder and harder for local authorities to continue to subject to the bedroom tax because they would always meet the costs of the DHPs that their own criteria say get the money reimbursed or they would be helped out they should be paying out. by a DHP, but for a large number of families that did I would be interested to hear from the Minister what not happen because of the application of this second the evidential basis is for reducing DHP funding next means test. The benefits that were being taken into year. Does the funding level take account of actual account were things such as disability living allowance assessed levels of hardship arising from reduced housing and personal independence payments, but they are benefit, or is it based only on the amount of DHP that paid to people who are long-term sick and to disabled local authorities have been able to distribute so far? people to help them meet the extra costs of their What steps are the Government and local authorities disability. They are not meant to subsidise their housing taking to inform vulnerable claimants that they can apply costs. Those extra costs do not go away just because for DHPs to help them make up their rent shortfalls? 861 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 862 System) System) Another aspect that has arisen as a result of the We were also concerned about younger people affected changes to housing benefit is the introduction of a cap by the changes to the shared accommodation rate, on the total amount of benefits that a household can which is the housing benefit paid to claimants without receive. The current limit is £26,000 a year. It is relevant dependents who live in private rented accommodation. to housing costs because it is the claimant’s housing Basically, it means that they cannot rent a complete flat benefit that is reduced when they hit the cap. or house of their own; they can afford to rent only a It is worth noting that almost everybody affected by room. The benefit had previously applied to claimants the cap either lives in an area of the country with expensive under 25, but from April 2012, as part of the LHA rented accommodation, such as London, or are being reforms, the Government extended the SAR to any placed in temporary accommodation because they are single claimant under the age of 35 without dependent homeless. Local authorities often have no option other children. We found that in many areas insufficient than to put homeless people in temporary accommodation accommodation at this level of rent was available. We because of the lack of other rented housing in the area. heard evidence of possible adverse impacts on people That problem is getting more and more acute in a with mental health problems and on parents with non- number of areas, but temporary housing is normally more resident children, who would no longer have room to expensive than permanent accommodation and claimants accommodate their children when they came to stay. can then fall within the scope of the benefit cap. We concluded that the extension of the shared Local authorities often end up paying the shortfall accommodation rate to single claimants up to the age between rent levels and housing benefit for those affected of 35 might well have reduced the availability of safe, by the cap through DHPs, so there is in fact no overall appropriate accommodation for younger people, some saving to public funds. We recommended that the of whom may be vulnerable. We recommended that the Government should exempt all households in temporary Government should assess the impact of this change to accommodation from the benefit cap, because it seems the shared accommodation rate. If there was evidence particularly unjust for those claimants to be affected that the change was resulting in some vulnerable young when they had no choice over where they were housed. people having to live in situations which were inappropriate We also found that the benefit cap was having an or put them at risk, we thought that the Government adverse impact on disabled persons and their carers, should consider introducing exemptions for vulnerable and that is a particular problem when the carer lives people and doing more to increase the provision of with the disabled person—usually as the parent of a appropriate accommodation. child, but it could be as the adult child of a disabled On the face of it, the introduction of universal credit parent—but they are not considered, for benefit reasons, may seem unlikely to affect housing costs, but housing to be part of the same household. We recommended benefit is one of the six benefits that will form part of that the Government should exempt from the benefit universal credit. The biggest change in respect of housing cap all recipients of carers allowance in that situation. benefit is that it will be administered by the DWP The Government said that the benefit cap was not directly as part of universal credit, rather than by local intended to push carers into work, but that may well be authorities, as is the case at present. Universal credit, the effect unless the recipients of carer’s allowance are including the housing costs element, will generally be exempted from the cap. I do not think that the Government paid direct to claimants once a month, although exceptions anticipated that carers would be caught by the bedroom can be made. tax. We also looked at the local housing allowance, which For some time now most claimants in the private is the former housing benefit for tenants in the private rented sector have received their housing benefit direct rented sector. The Government announced reforms to and paid rent to their landlords. However, for social the LHA in the June 2010 Budget, and the Committee housing tenants, this represents a huge change, as their published a report that year highlighting our concerns housing benefit has always previously been paid to their about the implication of the changes. Our 2014 report landlords and they have not been faced with handling assessed the impact of the reforms. We concluded that the significant sums that housing benefit sometimes there was a growing discrepancy between average rents involves, especially when it is paid once a month. and the amount of local housing allowance that households In a report that we published in 2012 we looked at can claim. We found that, as a result, private sector how universal credit would affect vulnerable claimants. landlords are increasingly reluctant to rent to LHA One of the key issues that we considered was the recipients. Evictions and non-renewals of tenancies are challenge that some vulnerable people would face in increasing, and the properties that do remain available coping with direct monthly payments of UC which to claimants are increasingly of poor quality and there included their housing costs. To test the impact of direct are fewer and fewer of them. payment of housing costs on social sector tenants, the We also looked at the impact on homelessness. We Government set up direct payment demonstration projects noted that, despite homeless statistics being down overall, in six local authority areas in 2012. The findings from rises are occurring in areas where demand for housing is the research showed a distinct and significant drop in high, and that homelessness among those not deemed rent payment rates when tenants first migrated to direct to be “in priority need” had increased by 9% between payment. As a result, rent arrears increased, as did the 2012 and 2013. In order to qualify as priority need, number of tenants falling into arrears. Although tenants households need to be vulnerable in some way. We are adjusted to the new system over time, much of the talking about single mothers or victims of special arrears that had built up in the early stages were not circumstances, such as a fire or flood, so many homeless repaid, so total arrears continued to rise. Overall, tenants people are excluded from the definition. It is therefore who went on to direct payment paid 95.5% of all the not surprising that many people who are homeless are rent owed, compared with 99.1% who were not on not necessarily showing up in the figures. direct payment. 863 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 864 System) System) [Dame Anne Begg] for Birmingham show that roughly half those who were originally having to pay for spare rooms no longer have The Public Accounts Committee last week published to, although obviously people are flowing in and out of a report on universal credit which concluded that these the system. I find it rather sad—perhaps the Minister findings show that the DWP needs to reflect on how it will take note of this point—that although the Department will tackle the potential problems of paying the housing gets monthly statistics from all local authorities on what benefit element of universal credit directly to claimants. is going on with awards of DHP and the like, spare As we said about universal credit in 2012, it may work room rent and so on, we do not get up-to-date figures well for the majority of claimants, but it is the vulnerable on the situation. minority who need special attention and extra support. One of the changes introduced in April 2013 was to This is particularly the case when it comes to housing enable people in the social rented sector to benefit in the costs because they often represent the largest proportion same way as those who own their own homes if they of a household’s benefit payments. If people fall into want to let out a spare room to a lodger or boarder. Not arrears and lose their homes, there can be all sorts of only would they not have to pay for the spare room, but dire consequences, particularly for children. they could keep up to £20 a week of the additional What I have said so far applies predominantly to money. Given that the applicable amount for a 25-year-old England and Wales. Since we published our report there is currently around £71.70, £20 a week is quite a lot of has been a referendum in and the setting up of money. I believe that only a handful of people in the Smith commission to look into further devolved Birmingham have taken that up, but I think that is powers. My Select Committee has not had time to look because people do not know that they can benefit. at the implications of the Smith agreement and how I had a meeting last night with care leavers, during that might impact on the way in which housing benefit which we discussed housing, because it is absolutely is administered and paid in Scotland. Nevertheless, our critical for them. We discussed how tight their budgets report was wide ranging. I have not touched on all the are when they have to live on means-tested benefits, important issues that it covered, but colleagues from the because they have to pay water, gas and electricity bills, Committee are in the Chamber and they may do so. so there are great merits in people sharing property in In conclusion, we continue to be disappointed that certain circumstances. I advise young people to consider the Government have not been able to provide a response sharing, rather than trying to live alone. They raised a to the very important matters that we raised nearly a concern that even though they got some priority as care year ago. Many of the issues that we identified in April leavers, they were still given only one choice of property— 2014 still exist in the system and some have been exacerbated take it or leave it. I think that varies from local authority with the passage of time. I look forward to the Minister’s to local authority, but perhaps more could be done in update on the progress that has been made in addressing that regard. some of the concerns that I have raised. In my constituency advice bureau I get people who 3.33 pm are very upset. The last person who was in tears was a constituent who was in overcrowded accommodation; John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD): I am they could not live comfortably in the two-bedroom flat pleased to follow the hon. Member for Aberdeen South they had. I find it sad that we are still not managing to (Dame Anne Begg), the Chair of the Select Committee, deal with those who are under-occupying and those who raises a number of interesting points. A number of who are over-occupying in such a way that councils those were debated in the private Member’s Bill introduced could resolve the issue. I recently had a case in which a by my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew pensioner wanted to downsize from a house but the George), the Affordable Homes Bill, which proposed a council was being exceedingly difficult about it, saying, number of changes to the social sector criteria—the “When you took the house, certain adaptations were bedroom tax, spare room rent or whatever one wants to made, so we want you to reinstate them before we move call it. One of those changes would, under certain you.” Obviously he is not paying the spare room rent, circumstances, automatically exempt people with disabilities but he is still occupying a house that could be occupied from being required to pay for a spare room. by a family. I do not think that there is the urgency that In law as it currently stands, under article 14 of the there should be in local authorities to try to deal with European convention on human rights, there is a legally overcrowding. enforceable right to get hold of discretionary housing payments. I have achieved that in Birmingham in a Dame Anne Begg: Actually, there is a need to ensure couple of cases, by using the threat of it rather than that people are appropriately housed and that they making the application to court. My constituency experience move, but very little of that responsibility lies with local is that in the cases in which we should get DHP, in authorities. The wrong way to go about it is just to take general we have got it. I agree that we should have an money from people who are over-occupying and would automatic exemption from paying for spare rooms for love to move but are not in a position to do so. those people who need them because they have a disability, which is obvious, and those whose homes have been John Hemming: I personally think that it would be adapted. However, we have managed to get DHP in harsh to go around evicting everybody who is under- those cases, and we are getting longer DHP awards occupying although, that happens when people try to following the changes that defined the budget for two-year succeed to a tenancy; they are told that they cannot do periods, so some progress is being made. so because the property is too big. I do not think that The other change proposed in the Affordable Homes overcrowding is taken sufficiently seriously. Malcolm Bill was that people who said that they wanted to Wicks highlighted in his memoirs how he argued, when move would not have to pay. Of course, that is between a Labour Housing Minister, for the need to bring in 10% and 20% of people. In fact, I think that the figures something akin to the current situation. 865 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 866 System) System) Sheila Gilmore ( East) (Lab): The hon. Mr Spencer: I am not familiar with Birmingham, Yardley, Gentleman should acknowledge that the proposals from but I wonder whether the fact that the lists were so long the late Malcolm Wicks involved incentives to move, is a symptom of the legacy of the previous Government’s not financial penalties to be applied immediately whether inability to build single-bedroom accommodation for or not houses are available. the hon. Gentleman’s constituents to move into.

John Hemming: I thank the hon. Lady for that John Hemming: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid intervention, but my reading of all the documents, point. Social landlords have had a relatively simplistic including those memoirs, is different from hers. It was approach to designing property to suit the demands of not about an incentive to move, which I do not think the market. That creates a difficulty, in as much as one anyone would criticise. I think that his proposals were should recognise that there are real difficulties in the very similar to those that have been adopted by this financial costs of living alone, including paying rent. Government, as seen in the written parliamentary questions. The hon. Member for Aberdeen South said that the changes to universal credit mean that people have to keep money aside for rent in a social housing property Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con): I am grateful to in the same way as they have had to in a private rented the hon. Gentleman, who is being generous in giving property, the logic being that it makes for a seamless way. Does he also recognise that it is wrong to distinguish move into work and therefore they are not frightened between individuals on the basis of who their landlords about getting a job. are? Whether their landlord happens to be in the private sector or the public sector should make no difference to In my constituency, I have worked with 6 Towns the level of support they get. credit union, which is based in West Bromwich, to extend its service to Yardley, as it has done. It allows John Hemming: The hon. Gentleman makes a valid someone to be a preferred creditor. Basically, the housing point. The scheme for working out how much space element of universal credit or housing benefit is put to people need and paying them for it was introduced in one side and made available for the landlord, be that a the private sector many years ago. The Opposition will social housing landlord or a private landlord. It is make the valid point that they did not make it retrospective, important to do that, because we need to make sure but the Government then say that if we want to deal that people do not end up in a mess. The idea is that with overcrowding and the like, this is one of the budgeting is done through the bank account rather difficulties. Speaking personally, I would rather not do than the housing benefits system. That creates a situation any of these things, but we do not have the finances for in which people do not find themselves in great difficulty that. If we had chosen to take the Greek approach and with budgeting as soon as they get into a monthly paid say, “Can’t pay, won’t pay”, and then run out of money, job. we would not have had to do a lot of these things, but There have been proposals to cash limit housing sadly we have to try to bring the books into balance benefit by giving it all to the local authorities. I think over time. that the Institute for Public Policy Research proposed something along those lines. That would lead to a Sheila Gilmore: The fundamental problem with this situation where potentially many more tenants in social whole policy—I think the hon. Gentleman is taking this housing would have to pay towards the rent for their position as well—is whether it is about saving money or accommodation. I would be concerned about that, because making better use of houses. The amount being saved it would put them in a situation that they could do little even on the Government’s own initial estimates was not about. I favour the current process, which supports enormous, and when we factor in discretionary housing people with the housing costs they need to pay so that payments and all the other things that have to be taken they can cope on a day-to-day basis. into account, the savings diminish even further. This is This is a difficult area, and the Government have not really something that will save a lot of money. done many things that I would have preferred them not [Interruption.] to do, one of which is the change to housing benefit, which it would have been nice to do gradually. However, John Hemming: From a sedentary position, the Minister we have to bring the books into balance, because if we says, “£1 million a day”, which is about the order of do not, the interest rates on sovereign debt will go up magnitude that we were talking about. A policy can and the amount of interest that we would then have to have more than one objective. It can be designed to save pay means that the cuts or tax rises that are necessary money and also to deal with overcrowding. This year, I would become a lot greater than would have otherwise have not had anyone in my office complaining about been the case. social services criteria, but I often get people complaining Several hon. Members rose— about being overcrowded. Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): Is the I appreciate that there is a feeling the House is not very hon. Gentleman aware that when the bedroom tax was busy and that the whole afternoon and evening stretches introduced, 19,000 people in his constituency were already before us, but another debate is scheduled to take place on the waiting list, of whom 8,000 wanted one-bedroom after this one. If everyone follows the example of the flats? There was already a long queue of people before hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) the bedroom tax was introduced, and speaks for approximately 10 minutes, all Members who have indicated that they wish to speak will have the John Hemming: In my constituency, I was aware of a opportunity to do so. I will not impose a time limit at family of four living in a one-bedroom flat who wanted the moment. The hon. Gentleman has set a good example, to transfer out of that into better accommodation. and I hope that everyone will follow it. 867 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 868 System) System) 3.45 pm private rented accommodation. That is due to a Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab): I am combination of factors, but one that has made things pleased to have the opportunity to participate in this very difficult for people is the change in local housing debate. It was very well opened by my hon. Friend the allowance. Constituents tell me that when they go to the Member for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), who local authority, they are just given a list of private is a dedicated and inspirational Chair of the Work and letting agents. The problem is that nearly all those on Pensions Committee. I want to put on the record my the list say that they do not take any tenants on benefits. thanks to her for the way in which she has chaired the Constituents are spending time and resources searching Committee and for all the things I have learned from for suitable properties only to be told that they cannot her. She is the epitome of the iron fist in a velvet glove, be helped. That means that a large section of the private and she manages to be both reasonable and radical at rented sector is unavailable to claimants, and that they the same time. are often forced to take poor, substandard property that fails to meet their needs. I am speaking in this debate because I am a member of the Select Committee, and the Chair has already John Hemming: We have found in the west midlands gone through some of the recommendations in our that private landlords are often willing to take people report. Given the importance of the report, it is on housing benefit if they havea6Townstype of disappointing that, a year on, we are still waiting for the account that reserves the funds. There is a solution in Government response. I hope that the Minister will the system as it stands. Perhaps that needs to be investigated. address that matter. Obviously, 6 Towns does not operate across the country, It is indisputable that we are the middle of a housing but perhaps there are solutions that can be found within crisis. House building is down, homelessness and rough the current policy. sleeping are rising, and houses are unaffordable for many people. The lack of social housing means that Teresa Pearce: It is true that solutions can be found. those with legitimate claims and in desperate need are Sadly, no one seems to have found them yet in my part deemed ineligible or not in priority need as local authorities of south-east London. try to implement housing strategies to manage demand The Work and Pensions Committee looked at the with a only very few houses to allocate. problems that are faced by people on housing benefit. The private rented sector has filled the vacuum caused They are discriminated against when looking for private by the lack of affordable and social housing. As a rented accommodation. For families, that makes trying result, the private rented sector in London has grown to find a roof over their heads an uphill struggle. Given by 75% in the past 10 years. In my constituency, it is that tenancies typically last for six to 12 months, private now common for families to live in private rented renters often have to move just as they have settled in. accommodation, although they previously either owned Children who live in such places have their life chances their own home or lived in social housing. Yet the restricted and their education disrupted, and are often ever-growing private rented sector is still failing to meet not registered with a doctor. That cannot be acceptable. the demands of renters. It is easy to reduce discussions about housing costs to an evaluation of numbers and Private landlords may be reluctant to rent statistics, but the truth is that covering housing costs is accommodation or provide temporary accommodation crucial to securing a stable home life and a stable to claimants for a number of reasons. It might not just society. Affordable housing costs give families certainty be general discrimination, but might be due to constraints and freedom from the fear of eviction, and help to that are imposed by mortgage lenders, who say that foster communities. they are not allowed to provide longer tenancies, or due to fears that local authorities will fail to allocate housing Costs are spiralling out of control. The cost of renting benefit in a timely manner. Giving private renters the has soared while wages have dropped. The lack of option of allowing the housing benefit component of regulation in the private rented sector and the limited their universal credit payment to go directly to their supply of housing in comparison with demand mean landlord might allay those fears and enable private that private landlords are currently free to set their own renters to control their finances more easily. The prices. The cost of renting privately has increased Government must work with private sector landlords to consistently since 2009, and rents reportedly increased address their concerns about universal credit and offer in London in 2012-13 by nearly 8%. greater support to those who rent property to housing It is not surprising that so many people, both in and benefit claimants. That work must start now. out of work, require help with paying their housing costs and have to resort to housing benefit. The number Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) of in-work housing benefit claimants rose from 439,000 (Lab): I grateful to my colleague on the Work and at the end of 2008 to more than 1 million in May 2014. Pensions Committee for giving way. I met my key local The latest statistics also show that there were just under social housing provider on Friday. It said that there was 4.9 million housing benefit claimants at the end of a 15% gap in rent collection between those on universal November 2014—increased from 4.2 million in November credit and those not on universal credit. That is manageable 2008—of whom 67% were in the social rented sector, over a year or so, but over the longer term it will create but the rest were in the private rented sector. huge problems. I wonder whether my hon. Friend wants The Committee’s report illustrated that the cost of to comment on that point. housing benefit is rising, while the most vulnerable are failed when they rent privately. Over the past year, as a Teresa Pearce: That is a valid point. It is something constituency MP, I have seen a spike in the number of that we all encounter locally when we talk to housing people contacting my office who have been told that providers. It needs to be addressed, so I thank my hon. they are ineligible for social housing, but cannot secure Friend for her intervention. 869 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 870 System) System) Another problem for private renters is that the change which is code for sleeping on the floor of a friend’s to local housing allowance is further restricting their house. If they can be housed, they have been told that access to the widest selection of available properties. their only option is temporary accommodation. In my Local housing allowance rates match only the 30th per- local area of Bexley, people are often temporarily centile of homes within a broad rental market area. The accommodated in Manchester and Bolton, which means Government reduced that from the 50th percentile. I having to uproot their children from school and leave believe that that needs to be re-evaluated urgently, especially their support networks behind. in London. Rents have risen, but the local housing It always worries me greatly that, while a number of allowance was frozen in 2012-13 and uprated by 1% in landlords are reputable, a number of others are not. 2014. There has been a reduction in the number of There are private landlords in my constituency who line homes that can be rented out at that rate. their pockets while renters struggle to pay their rent. I An analysis by Crisis shows that across Britain, one wrote to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the in 10 local housing allowance rates for 2015-16 is 5% or Treasury in November to ask about the Let Property more lower than the estimated 30th percentile of local campaign, which was launched in September 2013 to rents. Those include 77 rates that have already benefited target the residential property letting market. Specifically, from an additional increase due to the targeted affordability I wanted to know whether it had been successful in fund. As was outlined in the Select Committee’s report, closing the tax gap on let properties, but the responses I analysis by the Institute for Fiscal Studies shows that received were not encouraging. They said it was too rent levels did not decline as a result of the cap. In fact, early to tell, but one of the figures they did give me was the most recent rental figures show a 1.8% rise across an estimate that the tax gap on letting income was just the stock in England and a rise of 2.4% in London. over £500 million. It is absolutely disgraceful that public That is well above the recent 1% cap and means that money is going to landlords who do not then pay their additional properties will fall out of the reach of those way or their tax. We need to address that urgently. on benefit. Private renters should not have to choose between Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs Eleanor Laing): Order. having a roof over their heads and eating, but increasingly Before the hon. Lady addresses any further points. She that is becoming a daily choice for many people in my may have been able to count, but she has now spoken constituency. The Government should consider increasing for 12 minutes. I trusted her to speak for 10 minutes, so LHA rates by more than 1% annually in more pressured I trust that she is going to wind up very soon. areas. Although the Committee welcomed the introduction of the targeted affordability fund as a means of increasing Teresa Pearce: I will finish by saying that I think this LHA levels in areas of higher rents, some areas may see is a most urgent issue. I do not usually quote from rents rising by more than the maximum of 4% a year. Conservative manifestos, but the 1951 Conservative The Government should amend the targeted affordability manifesto said: fund so that it can be paid at higher levels in areas where “Housing is the first of the social services. It is also one of the rent increases are greater than 4%. It should also use keys to increased productivity. Work, family life, health and available rents rather than stock rents as a measure for education are all undermined by overcrowded homes.” the rental increase. That was true then, and it is true now. Rents are currently unaffordable across the private sector. In 2012, the Money Advice Trust stated that rent 3.58 pm arrears were the fastest growing debt problem it had encountered and that the number of calls it received on Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con): It is a pleasure the issue had risen by 37% on the previous year. At the to take part in this debate. I am sorry that I missed the end of 2014, the National Landlords Association reported first couple of minutes of the speech by the hon. Member that almost a third of private landlords had seen arrears for Aberdeen South (Dame Anne Begg), because she that year. There were a record number of evictions of speaks very sensibly on this issue and many Government renters across the social and private sector in 2014 as a Members listen to what she has to say about it. I will result of a combination of factors, including the bedroom pick up on a couple of points she made. tax, benefit sanctions, increased numbers renting with The hon. Lady has spoken in the past about the the reduced LHA rate, and rising private sector rents. amount that we spend on housing benefit. It was a Recent figures from Crisis have also shown that the matter of concern to us all that the housing benefit No. 1 leading cause of homelessness now is eviction budget seemed to be getting out of control in the from a private tenancy. The figures highlight not just run-up to the last general election. In fact, the housing the lack of affordability for renters when having to benefit bill was forecast to rise over the current Parliament manage competing living costs, but how unsustainable from £21 billion to more than £26 billion. This rising rents will be for the private rented sector without Government’s reforms have only pegged back that increase Government intervention. by about £2 billion a year, which, given the potential The Government must continue to monitor homelessness growth in the budget, is not very much at all. levels and take action to mitigate the impact on households The hon. Lady spoke about how the spare room and local authorities. The Department for Communities subsidy has been working in practice. Like the hon. and Local Government reported that rough sleeping Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming), increased by 14% in autumn 2014. I am regularly contacted my constituency surgeries were visited by many people by constituents who tell me that they cannot be housed when the policy was first mooted, perhaps because they by their local council because they are not in priority were scared by stories that were being circulated at the need and that they have no option but to live in overcrowded time about how it would affect them. There was a accommodation with family members or to couch surf, general lack of knowledge about discretionary housing 871 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 872 System) System) [Chris Heaton-Harris] Chris Heaton-Harris: She did. I know from Ministry of Justice figures that warrants for evictions for public payments and what people can receive them for. I am sector rental tenants were down over the period in pleased that we were able to help every person who question by 6%. An issue in the private rental sector came through the door of my constituency surgery might well need to be addressed, and that is probably in advice centre seeking help in that area, and all received the south-east of the country rather than elsewhere, discretionary housing payments. given the housing pressures that London might have. Interestingly, Daventry and District Housing, which My concern was the treatment of carers and those serves a huge area of my constituency, saw the policy who are disabled. As the hon. Member for Birmingham, change coming down the line. It is a good housing Yardley said, it would have been wonderful to exempt association in many ways because it talks to its tenants everybody from the change, but it was impossible to do on a regular basis and gets to know them, and it so, and therefore discretionary housing payments were therefore made sure that they were ready for the change. introduced. In my experience in my constituency, DHP Most tenants in Daventry and District Housing has been granted for disability and caring in every single accommodation knew that the change was coming, and case it has been asked for. I pay tribute to Daventry and knew that discretionary housing payments were available District Housing, the citizens advice bureau and the and how to access them. local council for the way in which they have dealt with I sit on the Public Accounts Committee, which discusses those cases. The patch—I admit that it is a patch, and these matters—I will mention the report that the hon. that I would much rather have seen it done in a much Member for Aberdeen South spoke about in moment—and more solid way—seems to work. The extension of the it is fairly obvious that different parts of the country, term of DHP seems to have given people a better sense different housing associations, and different councils that they will be able to live in their property for a long have acted in completely different ways over this change. period. They have probably acted in their best local interests, I conclude with comments on the Public Accounts which is fine, but it has led to different outcomes in Committee report on universal credit, which was published various parts of the country that all have remarkably only a couple of weeks ago, and which the hon. Member significant and different pressures on them. for Aberdeen South mentioned. As she outlined, an In one of my first years on the Committee, its Chair, interesting part of universal credit and one of the the right hon. Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), benefits that it will eventually wrap in—for many new took us to see a primary school and surrounding housing claimants, that has started—is housing benefit. Housing estate in her constituency. We had been talking about associations up and down the country have had concerns health and housing inequalities, and the trip was to see about how that might affect them and how they will get how primary education was working. I acknowledge their rents from tenants. However, the report shows how that the pressures on housing in Erith and Thamesmead, a change in the Department for Work and Pensions has or in Barking and Dagenham, are completely different been introduced—it has been seen as controversial by to those in my constituency, and that is why local many, although a universal credit that aims to get as experts and housing associations in that area know many people as possible into work and to make work their tenants well. pay better than benefits ever will is in fact policy on both sides of the House—how the programme has improved The interesting background to this debate concerns things and how it is now beginning to deliver what it an area of spending that was constantly growing and was meant to deliver, and on scale across the country. needed to be brought under control—however we paint the picture, the Government’s moneybags were not The report was groundbreaking in many ways. The particularly full when they came to office in May 2010, Public Accounts Committee is very critical of all and although they are a bit better now, there are still Departments that come before us where money is spent. tough decisions to be made. Such decisions must be We raised some issues, as detailed by the hon. Member based on fairness—I know that some Opposition Members for Aberdeen South, but if Members read the report do not consider this measure to be fair at all—and we they will see for themselves that we are much more must consider how we change a policy that is already comfortable with how the universal credit programme is enacted for those in the private rental housing sector going—that it is now delivering on scale and will deliver but not for those in the public rental sector. the savings expected. No matter on which side of the House hon. Members sit, they will welcome it in future, At this point I should say that I rent out a house. My because it does exactly what it says on the tin. private property in Lincoln is noted in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and I rent it to a private The interesting paragraph is paragraph 6. The hon. sector tenant who to my knowledge is not on any type Lady mentioned the potential problems of paying housing of benefit. There is a proper debate to be had about this benefit elements of universal credit directly to claimants— issue, which was started in no uncertain terms by the the question was whether housing associations and previous Government. others could maintain their incomes. I know from initial reports that her statistics are correct, but I would like to This Government brought forward their proposals hear from the Minister, because I am pretty sure that with the safety net of discretionary housing payments. I new stats prove that there is not as much of a problem do not want to disagree with the hon. Member for Erith as she says. and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce) because she will know her local area much better than I will, but perhaps I John Hemming rose— misheard her. She was talking about warrants for evictions, and perhaps she meant from the private rental sector. Chris Heaton-Harris: I had better sit down and shut up, otherwise I will get the stare from Madam Deputy Teresa Pearce indicated assent. Speaker, which I never want to receive. 873 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 874 System) System) Things are improving. We would expect that because could apply. For many people, however, that just is not when something changes, there is always upset at the practical. I have just checked yet again, as I do constantly, beginning. Things are on the right track, but I would the number of houses available for social rent in my city. like to hear about it from the Minister. This week, there were 54 in the whole city. Of those, 31 were one-bedroom, but eight were sheltered. The 4.8 pm people affected by the bedroom tax are by definition under pension and retirement age, and so would not Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Hon. Members qualify for those eight. agree that there are serious problems when payments of housing benefit rise so high. We disagree on our analysis Debbie Abrahams: That is not just the case in my hon. of how it came about and what we should do about it. Friend’s city. In Oldham in my constituency, 2,048 people Unless we tackle the underlying issues, we will simply are affected by the bedroom tax and there are only trim the edges, to the detriment of many households 50 properties for them to move into. and families. As the Office for Budget Responsibility says in its review of spending on benefits and pensions, the main drivers for the increase in housing benefit are Sheila Gilmore: I thank my hon. Friend for her increases in rents and the number of people on low intervention. wages who have to claim housing benefit to make ends In Scotland, the priority given to people who are meet. The OBR was concerned that those two things homeless—a much wider definition of homelessness would continue to be drivers in the coming decade has been adopted by the —means unless action was taken. There is very little—I would that there is real competition for smaller houses. The say virtually nothing—in the steps that the Government majority of people who present as homeless are single have taken since 2010 to tackle those problems. Indeed, people, so they too need the small houses that other they may have made them worse. people are trying to fit into. We were told by Ministers during the passage of the Welfare Reform Bill that the private rented sector had John Hemming: I refer the hon. Lady to the answer become so intrinsically dependent on the housing benefit that the then housing Minister, the late Malcolm Wicks, market that rents would fall as a result of the changes. gave to a question from the hon. Member for The Rents have not fallen. In many places, they have risen Cotswolds (Geoffrey Clifton-Brown) in Hansard in 2004: considerably above inflation. That is certainly true in “We hope to implement a flat rate housing benefit system in my city, in the city represented by the Chair of the the social sector, similar to that anticipated in the private rented Select Committee and in London. The DWP accepts sector to enable people in that sector to benefit from the choice that this is the case. For the private rented sector, it has and flexibility that the reforms can provide.”—[Official Report, introduced additional payments in some areas to top up 19 January 2004; Vol. 416, c. 1075W.] the local housing allowance—after it previously made If he said that then, why is it now such a bad idea? reductions—because it accepts there is a growing gap between the actual rents available to people who want Sheila Gilmore: It is interesting that the flat-rate to rent and need housing benefit, and the payments housing allowance for the private rented sector should they would otherwise receive. The promises that rent be raised. What the hon. Gentleman mentions was would fall as a result of the policy have not come about. discussed as a possibility during the Labour Government. I hope that in looking to see what savings are supposed I was very much involved in housing, as the convenor of to have been made, those additional payments will be a housing committee in my council, and I remember factored in. that being discussed, but it was not implemented and We are repeatedly told that this policy is about saving there was a lot of opposition to the idea of doing that money. I think the Minister from a sedentary position for the social rented sector, for all sorts of reasons. said, “Oh, it’s about £1 million a day,” but that was However, what the bedroom tax does is immediately say based on the Government’s original statement that the to people, whether they can move or not and whatever policy would save about £500 million a year. Other their circumstances are: “Youmay have to pay this extra experts said, at a very early date, that it would be lucky money.” to be somewhere nearer £350 million, and that does not To argue that discretionary housing payments are take into account the very high cost of discretionary sufficient is not good enough. Even in Scotland, where housing payments, which are a cost to Government and the Scottish Government eventually agreed that extra so detract from any savings made. It is therefore not money for the discretionary housing pot should kick in, correct for the Government to say what they say. there are still people who either do not know about For individuals, households and families, the impact making a claim or make a claim and do not get it, and is extremely serious. This is not the same, as is often who have to keep making claims. What the Select said, as what happened previously in the private rented Committee said—I do not think this was unreasonable; sector, dating back to about 1998 when size was taken we are a cross-party Committee—was that if we take into account. This is an impost on people now, whether the view that disabled people who have substantially they can move or not and whether there is anywhere for adapted houses will receive long-term discretionary housing them to move to or not. One of the amendments tabled payments, which is what is always said, it would be during the course of the Welfare Reform Bill by the simpler to exempt them. It would be administratively Opposition—it was followed up through the House of simpler, because there must be administrative costs in Lords and incorporated into a private Member’s Bill taking forms from people, processing them and working that was not allowed to progress in this House recently— out whether they are still eligible. I do not think that proposed that if people were offered a suitable alternative was an unreasonable proposition. As the Government house and did not take it, then the cut in their benefit have taken so long to read our report—presumably 875 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 876 System) System) [Sheila Gilmore] The problem with this Government’s policy is that it has made life more difficult for many people, while the considering it and working out whether it is workable—I benefits bill has continued to rise. As my hon. Friend hope that the Minister will stand up today and tell us the Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) said, that they have accepted that reasonable proposition. If that has happened because the Government have not he did that, we would all be extremely glad. addressed the underlying issues. The OBR shows that I want briefly to say something about the housing while housing benefit to unemployed people has fallen benefit cap. If a lot of people—this was the evidence to and is projected to continue to fall, housing benefit to our Committee—are in temporary accommodation, it those in work will rise steadily between 2012 and 2019. is utterly unreasonable to stop their benefit suddenly This is yet another indication of the cost of living crisis because they find themselves in that position. The that people face, and it demonstrates that the new Government are fond of saying that, as a result of the poverty is in-work poverty. cap, people have moved out of temporary accommodation, The Select Committee quotes Lord Freud as saying but I suggest that it is likely that they are moving from that the case load in the private rented sector is up temporary accommodation to permanent accommodation. “by around 8% nationally and by around 5% in London”. There is a movement of people in and out of the scope of the household benefit cap, but the amount that some That is because rents are going up, even though the people are losing is very significant indeed. Again, I fear quality of housing is going down. I hope the Minister that the legislation was more symbolic than something will be able to clarify the position on rents, since the that seriously addressed the underlying issues. If we Select Committee reported before the Office for National have a lot of people receiving high amounts of benefits Statistics admitted that mistakes were made in the overall—because, for example, they are living in very assessment of rents in London. In other words, more expensive temporary accommodation—we need to build people are in the private rented sector today, and more more affordable houses. of them are on housing benefit. This is an issue north and south of the border. The Scottish Government have not been building sufficient John Hemming: I am aware of the proposal to transfer low-cost affordable homes. The number completed in housing benefit money to local authorities with a view my city last year was the same as it was in 2007, which to building more properties. Let me ask this: what pays was the year that the current Scottish Administration the rent of the people who are already in tenanted took office. They have not been building low-rent affordable accommodation while the new properties are being homes at an increased rate, even though they may built with that money? sometimes try to say that they are. Without those homes, people will be paying excessive rents in the private Helen Goodman: That, of course, is the great conundrum. rented sector, and not just in temporary accommodation. I hope to come on to demonstrate to the hon. Gentleman That is the issue we need to tackle. how the Government have intensified the housing crisis rather than eased it by bringing about the happy day when we have enough homes. What is happening is that 4.18 pm people are renting because they cannot afford to buy, Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I begin by and they cannot afford to buy because house prices are congratulating the Select Committee, in particular the rising faster than they can save. Today, the average Chair, on an excellent and extremely useful report. It is house price is eight times the average income. a thoughtful and well-informed cross-party report, so I Under this Government, we have had record lows for hope that the Minister will be able to explain why, after house building, which is now down at 1920s levels, as a whole year, the Government have not been able to well as record lows for home ownership. No action has respond to it. been taken to protect people from rip-off rent rises. As the report points out, the Government set themselves That is why the Labour Opposition propose to address three targets for their welfare reform programme and these problems, give security to renters and build five changes to housing benefit: reducing benefit expenditure, times as many homes as the Prime Minister promised improving incentives to work and making the situation yesterday. It is equally clear that something needs to be fairer. It is quite clear that the first test has been failed. done about raising low incomes. I shall not detain the The Office for Budget Responsibility shows that expenditure House with our proposals to strengthen the minimum on housing benefit in 2009-10 was £20 billion. In 2013-14, wage, but it is absolutely clear that that is part of the the last year for which we have full statistics, it was equation. £24 billion; and the OBR is predicting that by 2018-19, The Select Committee made a number of sharp the spend will be £27 billion. criticisms of the bedroom tax, which was described I was particularly struck by the table at the beginning as “a blunt instrument”. It said that its effect was of chapter 2 on the local housing allowance, which sets particularly harsh in rural areas, which is true. If people out the maximum amounts payable. For a one-bedroom in rural areas have to move, they have to move a long flat or shared accommodation, the maximum amount way out of the community in which their children might payable is £250 a week. Everybody here will know, be going to school. The Select Committee pointed out however, that a £1,000 monthly payment sustains a that the impact is worst in the north-east, the north-west, mortgage of £200,000. In my constituency, that would Yorkshire and Humberside. It said that people in social buy a four-bedroom house. The average cost of a new housing often have no real choice when it comes to social housing unit is £120,000. How much better it which accommodation they rent. It also said that the would be if we could shift the finance from benefits to Department for Work and Pensions has adopted a bricks and spend the money on building new homes. much tighter definition of space than the one used by 877 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 878 System) System) the Department for Communities and Local Government. example of Tory welfare waste. This is before we even It would be helpful if the Minister could explain that as get on to the fact that if this Government are re-elected well. the average bill for a family, in terms of the bedroom However, what worries the Committee most is the tax, will be £3,800 over the lifetime of the Parliament, impact on people with disabilities. We know that two and we know from the Government’s own statistics that thirds of those affected are disabled themselves or have a further 1 million people will be caught in the net of a disabled family member. The Committee says that the bedroom tax and 6.5 million people are at risk of people are being pushed out of their homes when public having to pay it. The fact is that the Select Committee—an money has already been spent on adapting them, and all-party Committee—recommended significant changes its Chair, my hon. Friend the Member for Aberdeen to the bedroom tax. The Government have failed to South (Dame Anne Begg), made that point today. respond. People are looking forward to the general election when they can have a Labour Government who The criticism is justified. In answer to a parliamentary will abolish the bedroom tax. question, the Department for Communities and Local Government informed me that in 2013-14, local authorities had adapted 42,000 properties and provided an average 4.30 pm grant of £4,227. The Department also said that the The Minister for Disabled People (Mr ): Government would spend £1 billion on adapting properties I will try to respond to the points raised in the debate between 2011-12 and 2015-16. That is commendable, but I will also endeavour to stick to your strictures, but the Government’s investment in disabled people’s Madam Deputy Speaker, to keep my remarks relatively living space is being undermined by the bedroom tax, brief so that the House also has time for the second because they are now being pushed out of those homes. important debate today. I will do my best to balance the The policy is hitting an estimated 100,000 people whose two competing tensions. homes in the social sector have been adapted. That is disrupting lives and driving hardship, and it is a prime First, I will respond to the point made by the Committee example of welfare waste. The Committee recommends Chairman, the hon. Member for Aberdeen South (Dame the abolition of the bedroom tax in cases in which Anne Begg), about the lack of a response. The Government people have adapted their homes or are receiving the have the greatest respect for the parliamentary process higher level of disability living allowance or personal and engage with the Select Committee. She will know independence payments, and the Opposition wholly that, with the exception of this report, no response by support that recommendation. my Department has taken longer than six months, but I fear that there is a very simple and straightforward The Committee also refers to the impact of the answer as to the reason for the delay and I am afraid it bedroom tax on carers, 60,000 of whom who have been will not mean an early response. The Committee report very badly hit. It recommends that those who cannot spends quite a bit of time talking about the removal of share a room with a disabled partner, or who live in the spare room subsidy—as we have done today—and adapted homes, should be exempted from the tax. It the Government response responds to the various points also points out that carers are particularly badly affected made. As the hon. Lady will know, we have a coalition by the benefit cap. I cannot help thinking that that is Government—something I hope will not be necessary extremely unfair, because carers are doing the socially after the election—and that, despite our coalition partners responsible thing. The Committee estimates that the having agreed on this policy all the way through the free care that they offer is saving taxpayers £18,000 a Parliament, they now towards the end of it do not year per person. The bedroom tax comprehensively agree. Unfortunately therefore, despite the fact that the fails the fairness test that the Government set themselves, response is broadly ready to go, we have not been able and hits those who, through no fault of their own and to secure agreement across the Government. I am afraid through force of circumstance, cannot go out to work, harmony has not broken out and, until it does, the so it is not meeting the “incentives to work” criterion Government will not be able to respond to the Committee. either. That is why the Opposition are pledged to abolish it. I am probably just as disappointed about that as the In most areas, people have not been able to move to hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Teresa Pearce). smaller accommodation because of a shortage of smaller units and because of pre-existing waiting lists. The Dame Anne Begg: While I can appreciate there may Government knew that when they introduced the bedroom be problems on the bedroom tax, would it be possible tax, which is why they were able to forecast savings. for the Government to publish a partial response to our That shows what a deeply cynical measure this has proposals, addressing all the other points on which been. there presumably is agreement across Government? Our The Committee also points out that the diversion of Committee had a lot of very interesting things to say on resources to dealing with the bedroom tax has involved a whole range of other issues. a great deal of time, energy and expenditure on the part of the housing associations. It says that, according to Mr Harper: That is an interesting point. Let me the National Housing Federation, the costs associated take it away and see whether it is possible to do that in with communicating with tenants, supporting them and the time remaining. I have explained the reason for the tackling rent arrears will be equivalent to the amount lack of response to the Committee and, as I have said, that could be spent on building 17,500 new properties it is the only report from the Select Committee that every year. That is why I say to the hon. Member for the Department has not responded to within six months. Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) that this is a I am sorry about that, but the blame does not lie perverse policy. It is a perverse diversion of resources with the Conservatives in the Government; it lies from tackling the housing crisis to punishing the most elsewhere. [Laughter.] I am just being honest here at vulnerable members of society. It is in fact another the Dispatch Box. 879 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 880 System) System) John Hemming: I think the Minister accepts that the Our reforms to housing benefit, including the removal Liberal Democrats believe there should be automatic of the spare room subsidy, are dealing with some of the exemptions for some of the people currently receiving issues relating to using the housing stock more efficiently discretionary housing payment, and does he not accept and dealing with overcrowding. My hon. Friend the that if we automatically exempt people who are currently Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) getting DHP the net effect on the public purse is zero? drew our attention to overcrowding, and to the fact that not all local authorities are good at dealing with situations Mr Harper: No, I do not, and I just remind the hon. in which smaller families want to move to a smaller Gentleman that the Liberal Democrats agreed to this property while other properties are overcrowded. He policy and it remains the Government policy. I am sorry made a sensible point. they have not stuck to it because I think it is a very sound policy. Let me set out why. John Hemming: I tried to intervene on the hon. I was not going to spend a lot of time on this because Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) to ask the Committee did not, but I am afraid that the hon. her whether Labour would reduce under-occupation by Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) made adopting a policy that involved evicting people living in a lot of rather ridiculous assertions about welfare spending under-occupied accommodation. Does the Minister accept and I must take her to task on them. Being accused by that if we do not remove the spare room subsidy, the the Labour party of wasting money on welfare is only alternative open to Labour if it wanted to reduce extraordinarily rich. The last Government increased under-occupation would be to go round evicting people spending on the welfare budget by 60%, costing every from under-occupied properties, which does happen in household an extra £3,000. The increase in welfare certain tenancies? spending over this Parliament is going to be the lowest since the creation of the welfare state, and we will have Mr Harper: The Opposition clearly do not have a made cumulative welfare reform savings of nearly £50,000 sensible policy. I will comment on this briefly, because I million over this Parliament, benefiting people across want to move on to address some of the points made by the country. In-work spending is stable and forecast to the Chairman of the Committee and others. Labour’s fall next year, even with employment at a record high. policy to remove the removal of the spare room subsidy The out-of-work benefit bill is back to pre-recession would cost about £0.5 billion a year. The Opposition levels, at 2.2% of GDP, and real spending on housing have set out three ways in which they would pay for benefit fell between 2012-13 and 2013-14, for the first that, and when we had an Opposition day debate in time in a decade. The overall case load has fallen, and December, I went through them in some detail to housing benefit reforms have saved more than £6 billion demonstrate that they simply would not work. They say during this Parliament, compared with what would that their proposal to ensure that the building trade have happened if we had continued with the policies of paid its fair share of tax would raise £380 million, but the Labour party. So I am afraid that the hon. Lady we have already dealt with those changes in the 2013 needs to go back and look at the record. If she does so, autumn statement, so that policy would raise no money. she will see which party has wasted money on welfare—and Their proposed change to the stamp duty reserve tax, it is not the party of which I am a member. She needs to which they characterise as a tax cut for hedge funds, look in the mirror before she makes those kinds of silly would actually fall on pension funds and retail investors—in accusations. other words, on people who are saving for their retirement. Their third proposal is to end the employee shareholder Helen Goodman: I should like to draw the Minister’s scheme, but that would save no money in 2015-16. attention to the numbers provided by the Office for Budget Responsibility, which show total welfare spending The shadow Secretary of State, the hon. Member for in 2012-13 of £213 billion, and in 2015-16 of £219 billion. Leeds West (Rachel Reeves), has said that the first thing All the numbers that I quoted to the Minister were she will do when she walks into the Department for OBR numbers. Work and Pensions as Secretary of State will be to change our policy on the removal of the spare room Mr Harper: I am not resiling from the numbers. subsidy. If she did so, however, she would have to find Welfare spending has gone up over this Parliament, but £0.5 billion to pay for it and at the moment she has not it has done so at the lowest rate since the creation of the set out how she is going to do that. The first thing her welfare state. The reforms that we have made to various officials are going to say to her is, “Secretary of State, welfare policies will have saved £50 billion over this where are you going to find half a billion pounds?” Parliament compared with what would have happened Labour is unable to answer that question at the moment. if we had not made those reforms, and I think that that Hon. Members also referred to universal credit, with is sensible. my hon. Friend the Member for Daventry (Chris Heaton- We have dealt with some of the issues that we inherited Harris), an experienced member of the Public Accounts from the Labour party, and our changes are largely Committee, being very supportive of that. He asked me supported by the public. One such change is the benefit a specific question, picking up on a point made by the cap, and public support for that is very clear. The Select Committee Chair; this was about rent arrears, Opposition are not so enthusiastic about it, but 73% of with reference being made to a specific set of pilots. My the public support it and 77% of them agree that it is understanding is that the difference was that for direct fair that no out-of-work household should get more payments, where the money was being paid to the than the average working household. In terms of fairness, landlord directly, 99.1% of rent owed was paid, but the that seems a pretty unremarkable policy, and it is one figure fell to 95.5% where people were managing that we support even if the Labour party is unenthusiastic the payments themselves. Over time, however, the impact about it. of direct payments lessened significantly; half the arrears 881 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 3 MARCH 2015 Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare 882 System) System) occurred in the first month, and by the 18th payment are either single people or childless couples and require the figure for tenants who were being given the money only one bedroom. Landlords are starting to respond and making those rent payments had risen to 99%, to that, and we are seeing local authorities and housing which is more or less the same as for direct payments to associations now properly designing their housing stock landlords. to meet the demographic need of their potential tenants. That is important, because a key point of universal credit is about putting households on out-of-work universal Helen Goodman: On a point of clarification, were credit in the same position as they will be in when they those overall numbers that the Minister was quoting to are in work: taking responsibility for paying the rent the House inclusive of old age pensioners or not? themselves. I listened carefully to what the hon. Lady said, because she made the comparison with the position Mr Harper: Those were 1.4 million one-bedroom in the private sector, where that is already the case, and properties across the social rented sector, with 130,000 then referred to the fact that in the social rented sector it new lets. I think that that is the total number of properties was a change. It is a change, but the vast majority of the that are available. people who rent properties in the social rented sector Mr Spencer: I know that the Minister is very busy in are perfectly capable of managing their money, being his Department and in the Forest of Dean, but I was given responsibility for it and paying their rent, just like wondering whether he would join me on Friday when I everybody else. Some people will need some budgeting will be cutting the ribbon on some new properties built support and some support to move from the position by Newark and Sherwood Homes in the village of they are in now to taking that responsibility, and that Bilsthorpe. If he were able to come, I would be more support is going to be delivered through our universal than happy to let him take the scissors off me. If not, credit support delivered locally. A small minority of perhaps he could praise Newark and Sherwood Homes claimants may be unable to do that, and we have put in for the work it is doing in developing new homes in place alternative payment arrangements for them. That Sherwood and Newark. approach has been developed as we have rolled out universal credit carefully without our “test and learn” Mr Harper: I will have to stick to praising Newark approach. She will know that we have also put regulations and Sherwood Homes, and to allow my hon. Friend to in place to enable us to share with social housing landlords retain control of the scissors, which he is more than the fact that someone is in receipt of, or has made a capable of doing, so that he can open that new development claim for, universal credit, so that they are able to put in on Friday.I am afraid that, at this point in the parliamentary place the appropriate support for vulnerable tenants. cycle, one’s diary is quite full. A number of Members also referred, in the context of If we look at the affordable homes programme, 77% the removal of the spare room subsidy, to the amount of approved homes are one and two-bedroom properties, of discretionary housing payment. That is one area where which is up from 68% in the last round. New house we are able to deal with some of the specific issues, for building is now following that approach. example, on significantly adapted accommodation. A specific amount of the discretionary housing payment, Finally, let me turn to the point about local housing about £25 million, is specifically for local authorities to allowance raised by the hon. Member for Erith and enable people to stay in adapted accommodation. Of Thamesmead and others. The allowance was intended course, where properties have been specifically adapted to exert a downward pressure on rents. That means not for tenants with mobility needs, it does not make sense necessarily that rents will go down but that the pressure to insist that they move. That is exactly why we have on rents will be less than it otherwise would have been. made the money available to enable councils to deal In other words, it might mean that rents do not rise as with that, and I trust local authorities to make those much as they would otherwise have done. The hon. sensible decisions. They have the facts at their disposal, Lady specifically asked about parts of the country will know the circumstances of people locally, will where the pressure is higher. As she said, there is something know the facts about the disabled adaptation grant that called targeted affordability funding, which means that has been paid and are in the best position to make those where rents are significantly diverging from benefit decisions locally. I believe in localism and in trusting rates, we have increased LHA rates by up to 4%, which local authorities to make the decisions. Sometimes they is, I think, the right approach. might make decisions that people will characterise as I will conclude now as I am conscious of the time. I wrong, but I am prepared to trust them to make sensible have set out for the Chair of the Committee the reasons decisions. why we have not responded to the report, and I have On the availability of properties, it is also worth addressed a number of concerns, which was a challenge saying that in the social rented sector there are 1.4 million given the amount of time that I had. Our policies are one-bedroom properties, with more than 130,000 new working. They have driven the lowest rise in the welfare lets a year. So there is a significant amount of turnover; bill since the creation of the welfare state, and they are about 10% of the one-bedroom properties turn over also helping to get people back into work, which is why each year. So if social landlords are properly managing we are seeing a record number of men and women and prioritising their housing stock, that should enable across the country in work, and that demonstrates the them, over a period, to enable people to move into success of our long-term economic plan. smaller properties. Some 60% of social sector tenants Question deferred (Standing Order No. 54). 883 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 884 Services DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH announced that the funding has been identified, but many professionals are waiting to hear further detail about exactly what will be included. That would be very Child and Adolescent Mental Health welcome. Services While we wait for the prevalence data to appear—it [Relevant Documents: Third Report from the Health would be nice to hear the expected time frame in which Committee, Children’s and adolescents’ mental health we will hear the results—we all acknowledge that there services and CAMHS, HC 342, and the Government has been an alarming rise in the level of distress and response, HC 1036] need reported by all those who work in the field, including Motion made, and Question proposed, those in the voluntary sector, in teaching and in CAMHS. There are unprecedented levels of demand at a time That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure by the Department of Health— when, unfortunately, 60% of local authorities that responded to a survey from YoungMinds report cuts or a freeze in (1) further resources, not exceeding £866,629,000 be authorised for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1019, their CAMHS budget. That is where the front line of prevention should be. (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be reduced by £635,000,000 as so set out, and The compelling evidence that we heard throughout our report was that early intervention prevents children (3) the sum authorised for issue out of the Consolidated Fund be reduced by £679,772,000 as so set out.—(Mark Lancaster.) from presenting when they have become more unwell, so that is where we need to focus our resources. Clearly, the Government were right and everybody welcomes 4.47 pm the investment in 50 extra beds in the areas of greatest Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (Con): It is a pleasure to need—some of which are in my area—but it costs open this debate on our report into child and adolescent around £25,000 a month for a child or young person to mental health services. For the record, I am married to a be treated in an in-patient setting. For every young full-time NHS adult forensic psychiatrist who is also the person who is in one of those beds, we have to ask chair of the Westminster Parliamentary Liaison Committee whether they would have needed to be admitted to for the Royal College of Psychiatrists. I thank the many hospital in the first place had those resources been organisations and individuals who have contributed to properly directed to prevention services. We need double our report, my fellow Committee members and also the running. If we just keep investing in in-patient beds at Clerk of our Committee, David Lloyd for his exemplary the expense of prevention, we will fill those beds and leadership and work over the course of this Parliament. there will be a demand for more. May I start by setting the scene? This report was I hope the Minister will recognise the need for double launched in part because of the number of children and running so that we focus relentlessly on prevention and young people who were being admitted to hospitals early intervention. As he will know, if we are looking at many hundreds of miles from home when they were in in-patients and admissions, the very last place that any mental health crisis and needing the highest level of young person should be at a time of mental health crisis support. is in a police cell. I pay tribute to all those who, over a number of years, have campaigned on that. The problem During the course of our inquiry, we identified serious is not new. I am one of the few MPs—or perhaps not so and deeply ingrained problems with the commissioning few—who has been inside a police cell at night, because and provision of child and adolescent mental health for many years I was a forensic medical examiner. It was services, and we found that they ran throughout the always profoundly shocking to think that children as whole system from prevention and early intervention young as 12 or 13 across the west country were being services to in-patient services for the most vulnerable taken into police cells under section 136 of the Mental children and young people. Health Act 1983—an horrific experience. We welcomed the setting up by the Government of It is sometimes an individual case that finally brings the Children and Young People’s Mental Health and an unacceptable practice to an end. I pay tribute to Wellbeing Taskforce, and many of our recommendations Assistant Chief Constable Paul Netherton of were directed at that taskforce. I am sorry that it has not and Cornwall police for highlighting the awful case in yet reported, but I understand that it is to report very Torbay of a child who was detained in a police cell, and shortly, and we look forward to seeing its recommendations. I pay tribute to Chief Constable Shaun Sawyer because The taskforce knows that it is a matter not just of they have taken steps to bring the practice to an end. tweaking the CAMHS system but of fundamental change. Although as a Committee we called for this to be a I hope that it will clearly set out how that will be “never event” within the NHS, in effect the procedures implemented. We have legislated for parity of esteem, that will be put in place will be equivalent. Finally, on we have written it into the NHS Mandate, but all that this Government’s watch, we will see this unacceptable counts for nothing if it does not translate into better practice coming to an end. That is long overdue and services for children and young people. very welcome. The key recommendation in our report is about the In focusing on the need to keep that timely support importance of prevention and early intervention. However, for children and young people, I also hope that the services cannot be planned without knowing the extent taskforce will set out what can be done to address some of the problem. It is a matter of great regret that the of the perverse financial incentives in children and five-yearly prevalence survey was cancelled under the young people’s mental health services. For example, a previous Government. That means that our data are 10 child who is admitted to hospital no longer has to be years out of date. I very much welcome the reinstatement funded by the clinical commissioning group—in other of that survey. In his response, will the Minister give words, they are handed over to specialist commissioning— further details of the extent? I know that he has already creating all sorts of inappropriate decision making in 885 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 886 Services Services the system. It also means that children are more likely really small amounts of money, in relative terms, that to be readmitted because there are no step-down services. are required to keep excellent voluntary services running Therefore, a focus on active intervention to try to in our communities, we see that it would be the greatest prevent that admission and keep children at home is waste and tragedy to lose those vital services in our very important. I also look forward to hearing the communities for the want of what are really quite small taskforce’s recommendations on how that can be done sums. When children, young people and voluntary services consistently across the country, because another issue came to give evidence to our inquiry, we heard time and we raised was the extent of variation in practice. again that what they need is stable, long-term funding. I will now turn my attention to volunteers. If we are They do not require a great deal of money, but they are to retain a focus on the earliest intervention and prevention, currently limping from one short-term budget to another. we have to recognise the value of our volunteers. I Another issue raised was that if funding is available, it would like to pay tribute to a number of volunteers in often gets directed to a new start-up project, not towards my constituency. I am a patron of Cool Recovery, a a project in the same community that may have proven charity that provides mental health support to carers value. and those affected by mental health problemsacross south Devon. There are many such organisations working Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): The hon. directly with young people. Representatives from Lady is no doubt aware that some of the small, really Spiritulized, which supports young people in Kingsbridge, good charities will find that a bigger charity that is very recently came to Parliament after being shortlisted for good at filling in application forms will get the funding an award for the work it is doing in mental health first and then subcontract the work back to the small charity aid out in the community. In Brixham there is the Youth that was doing it before, having taken a cut of the Genesis Trust and volunteers from The Edge. Work is funding as well. also being done in schools. Representatives from South Devon college, which is based in my constituency, recently Dr Wollaston: I absolutely agree. The other problem came to Parliament after it received an award for its is that sometimes those larger national charities may work in student well-being and prevention of mental have no local presence or understanding. health problems. We need greater flexibility so that commissioners Those organisations are reporting that both the demand within health and local authorities are able to provide for their services and the level of complexity have never stable, long-term funding and to set the priorities for been greater. Part of the reason for that, as the Minister these new pots of money. It is always easy to announce will know, is the increasing waiting times for CAMHS. new projects, but we must allow funding to be directed That means more young people are becoming much at existing services that have a fantastic proven track more unwell before being seen in the CAMHS setting. I record. The value for money that we get from these hope that in his response he will be able to say exactly services is extraordinary, as is the value that young how we can balance that across the whole system. I very people place on them. Young people have told me—this much welcome the investment in services for eating applies particularly to a rural constituency such as disorders and self-harm and early interventions in psychosis, mine—that it is no good having a CAMHS service in a and of course the Improving Access to Psychological neighbouring town if they cannot get to it because there Therapies programme. However, as he will know, is no transport. That is why voluntary services are so fundamentally the issue comes down to funding. We will particularly valued. never achieve parity of esteem for mental health unless I was going to discuss our comments on schools, but we address the funding inequality, with 6% of the my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole mental health budget going to services for children and (Andrew Percy), as a former teacher, is far better placed young people, and that budget itself is an inappropriately to talk about that, so I will leave it to him to elaborate. I small slice of the overall funding pot for the NHS. How just want to touch on the new challenges that young will we actually drive change in increasing funding? people face with cyber-bullying, sexting, and image sharing. This is a 24-hour pressure; there is no safe The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman haven for them in these circumstances. I welcome the Lamb): I agree with everything my hon. Friend has said fact that the taskforce will comment on not only the and very much welcome her Committee’s report. I agree challenges but the opportunities that the internet may on the need to address the funding issue. In particular, it give us to assist young people. is critical that we achieve what I call an equilibrium of rights to access between mental and physical health in Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): order to address the awful problem on waiting times, My hon. Friend is making some important remarks, as and that must include children’s mental health services. has her Committee. Somebody who suffers from a condition such as depression or anxiety, and has already been taught coping techniques, often finds it helpful to Dr Wollaston: I thank the Minister for that intervention. have a mentor. Perhaps apps, mobile phones or the like It is very welcome that we now have waiting time targets could reinforce those coping techniques at times when as a right for people with mental health problems, life seems difficult. That is an important part of the alongside those for people with physical health problems, picture. but the challenge is not so much about the budget for children and young people’s mental health services, but what we take that from, because there are no areas of Dr Wollaston: I thank my hon. and learned Friend. slack in the mental health budget, as he will know. I In using the internet, one of the challenges is how to think that the mental health budget overall must achieve know which of the sometimes thousands of resources some parity. Again, if we look at prevention and the that will pop up as a result of a search are valuable and 887 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 888 Services Services [Dr Wollaston] “Act now, tomorrow could be too late!” That indicates the severity of what we are talking to be trusted. It would be useful to have a mechanism about. The third is that young people are abandoned for directing people to those that have the best evidence at 16. base behind them, and have been rated by young people as being the most helpful. While these kinds of resources Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): On the may be welcomed by some people, they will not be the issue of resources, budget cuts have been inflicted on most appropriate for everybody. We need to have choice local authorities, such as Coventry. Some of them have and a range of resources. That also applies to IAPT— had to find about £3 million or £4 million, which is an improving access to psychological therapies. Cognitive extra burden. The Government hope that local authorities behavioural therapy has an evidence base behind it, but can somehow resolve that situation, and then they it does not necessarily work for everybody. Those who wonder why they have problems with young people. do not find CBT helpful must have other avenues they can go down, including longer-term support where that is appropriate. Paul Blomfield: My hon. Friend makes a very important In closing, I draw the Minister’s attention to another point. Such a matter is close to my heart in Sheffield, area of early intervention—perhaps the earliest of all. where funding from central Government will halve over Does he have any encouraging points to make on the the lifetime of this Parliament. That is putting an enormous provision of perinatal mental health services? I look strain on all the related services and support for young forward to his response. people that can play a broader role in alleviating some of the difficulties. In Sheffield, we are very conscious that our position is in sharp contrast to that in wealthier 5.4 pm parts of the country. Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): It is a pleasure The first point is about cuts at a time of increasing to follow the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), need. We know that budget cuts to front-line services whose very thoughtful and incisive speech drew on both are difficult and can be devastating at any time, but cuts her own rich experience and the Select Committee’s to child and adolescent mental health services are being excellent report. made at a time of increasing need. From 2011-12 to In the September recess each year, I organise a series 2013-14, Sheffield CAMHS saw a 36% increase in referrals, of consultation meetings across my constituency. The and a 57% increase in initial appointments. If we are one I enjoy most is that with young people. It is organised serious about reducing stigma, talking openly about with a range of youth groups, such as Members of the mental health problems—we have made enormous advances Youth Parliament, and brings together a good number in doing that—and having parity of esteem, we should of young people aged from 18 to their early 20s. It is welcome those referrals. However, that demand comes really sparky and lively, and they pull no punches in against the background of what has effectively been a raising issues. When I ask them what are the top priorities 4% budget cut, disguised as a requirement to drive that I, as their Member of Parliament, ought to take up efficiency savings. That has had severe consequences for on their behalf, it has been very striking just how high the level of support that young people are receiving. mental provision has come in the past couple of years. There has been a stark increase in waiting times. That would not have been the case when I was young. The fact that young people themselves put such a Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): It is certainly high priority on mental health as an issue should send true that councils are faced with really tough decisions, us a very clear warning signal. That does not only apply given the 40% cuts to local government budgets. My in Sheffield. Following ballots of tens of thousands of understanding is that within the overall mental health young people across the country, the Youth Parliament budget of £14 billion, only £0.8 billion goes on child has made mental health one of its two priority campaigns and adolescent mental health services. That seems to be this year. If it is so important for young people and they a disproportionately small sum of money, given the are pressing us on the issue, we should be deeply concerned. scale of the problem. In advance of today’s debate, I have been in contact with three of the groups I work with in Sheffield: CHILYPEP Paul Blomfield: My hon. Friend makes a powerful —the Children and YoungPeople’s Empowerment Project; point. It is a relatively small sum of money. Perhaps that Young Healthwatch; and STAMP—Support, Think, indicates that a relatively small level of resource intervention Act, Motivate, Participate—which is a group of 14 to could make a significant difference. 25-year-olds who have come together with the specific As I was saying, the consequence of the rising demand objective of improving mental health support for other and falling resource in Sheffield is that some 18% of young people. They are concerned about the current young people—almost one in five—wait over 13 weeks state of provision, or what they would describe as the for treatment. The cuts not only impact on young lack of provision, and they fear for the future and the people up to the age of 17, but have a knock-on effect impact of cuts on an already desperately inadequate on adult mental health services and on acute and emergency service. provision. The groups have identified three key problems. The first is that reductions in funding are taking place at a Robert Flello: Although demand is rising, there is still time of increasing need. The second, which very much a current of demand that does not even present itself. echoes the points made by the hon. Lady and the report, There is a huge level of unmet demand, simply because is about the lack of early intervention. The STAMP people do not present themselves to systems such as young people’s manifesto states: CAMHS, but try to self-medicate or whatever. 889 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 890 Services Services Paul Blomfield: I am very grateful to my hon. Friend that the funding will be cut by a third. That is another for that intervention. While on one level we have seen example of the budget pressures being experienced and enormous progress in the openness with which we confront it is happening within the NHS as opposed to local mental health issues and the willingness of people to authorities, which we have discussed. come forward, we must be deeply conscious that there is In effect, £200,000 allows the service to work with little still a wider problem of people who do not present. The more than 100 young people aged 16 to 17 in a given year. absence of resource and the inability of the system to On funding relative to need, there are 12,627 young support people with needs when they do seek help sends people aged 16 to 17 living in Sheffield and it is estimated out a powerful message, because young people are very that 10% of them have some sort of mental health well networked. Those who might be on the tipping challenge. That leaves more than 90% of those we could point of coming forward to seek help will get the expect to need support with no service at all. We cannot message from their friends, “What’s the point, because keep talking about reducing stigma, eradicating stereotypes you have to wait so long?” That is an important point. and parity of esteem between physical and mental That brings me to the second point that young people health without funding services properly when people— raise with me, which is the importance of early intervention. especially young people—need that help. We have serious Again, that was emphasised by the hon. Member for questions to answer on the challenges posed to us by the Totnes. In the words of STAMP: issues raised with me by young people in Sheffield and “Act now, tomorrow could be too late!” those raised by the Youth Parliament. I want to share the harrowing words of one 18-year-old We know that, nationally, mental health problems young woman who is involved in the STAMP project in account for 28% of morbidity, but only 13% of expenditure Sheffield: is committed to mental health. Where is the parity in “Sometimes I think, do I have to kill myself to get help? I that? I hope the Minister will address that when he probably do. It happens all the time. People are desperate for help, responds to the debate. We need to put our money the only way they can get it is if they are at harm, so people harm where our mouth is. I am pleased that Labour has themselves or attempt suicide just to get put on another waiting committed to increasing the proportion of mental health list. It just shouldn’t be like that.” spend on CAMHS, which is currently a tiny amount of She is right; it clearly should not be like that. Nobody 6% even though three quarters of adult mental illness should have to reach crisis point before receiving the begins before the age of 18. support and care that they need, and certainly not our young people. Norman Lamb: I agree with the hon. Gentleman At a time of increasing need, we need to look at how about the need to increase resource in children’s mental we can do more with less money. Early intervention is a health services. Is the proposal he mentions designed to way of doing that. The hon. Member for Totnes made increase investment in mental health or to shift resource that point powerfully. from adult mental health to children’s mental health? Robert Flello: I appreciate my hon. Friend’s speech very much. He has put a thought in my mind about a Paul Blomfield: I am sure my hon. Friend the Member point that the hon. Member for Totnes also raised for Liverpool, Wavertree (Luciana Berger) on the Front about early intervention. Given that the cuts to other Bench will come back to this issue. My understanding is local authority front-line services have been worse than that our proposal is both to increase the overall resource decimated in places such as Stoke-on-Trent, those services available in the NHS and to shift resource within the that would have been early intervention-type services—and, service towards supporting CAMHS. indeed, pre-early intervention services—are just not We will also train NHS staff and teachers to spot there any more. problems sooner. We will expand talking therapies and work towards a 28-day waiting time standard for access Paul Blomfield: I thank my hon. Friend for making to both adult and young people’s talking therapies. that powerful point. The situation in Stoke, Sheffield That is crucial, given what I have heard from young and Coventry underlines his point that there used to be people. Moreover, as I said a moment ago, we will invest a hinterland beyond the NHS of youth groups, activities an additional £2.5 billion in the NHS to fund extra and support networks, many of which were supported nurses, doctors and other health workers, to relieve by local government funding in combination with funding pressure on the service. We owe it to our young people that was often raised within communities. The withdrawal to respond to their calls and I am pleased to have had of that funding, as local authorities have increasingly the opportunity to articulate some of their concerns. had to focus on statutory services, has put many of those groups at a tipping point and left the support that is available very weak. Several hon. Members rose— The third point that young people have made to me is about being abandoned at 16. Historically, CAMHS in Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame ): Sheffield have worked with people up to the age of 16, Order. Let me give Members guidance about how long leaving those beyond that age—before they turn 18 and we have for this debate. The wind-ups will start at become part of adult provision—to fall through a hole. 6.30 pm, so I do not think it necessary to have a time Things looked a bit brighter for 16 and 17-year-olds limit as long as Members take about 10 minutes each, when the clinical commissioning group committed just including interventions. If everyone takes 15 or 16 minutes, £300,000 a year to a service for them, although I am not we will not fit every Member in. We do not need a time sure why it did not include 18-year-olds as well. However, limit just yet, but if those speaking could aim for 10 to budgets are squeezed and it has since been announced 12 minutes, including interventions, that would be helpful. 891 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 892 Services Services 5.20 pm wanted the children to understand what mental ill health was like, and for them to have a deeper sensitivity John Pugh (Southport) (LD): I will certainly observe towards it. I vividly recall one episode in a corridor. An that time limit, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I congratulate elderly and somewhat confused old lady approached the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) on the the party. She was happy to see young faces reminiscent report from the Health Committee, which was interesting of her grandchildren. The boys—tough Bootle lads— and important reading. backed away in fear. They did not know what to do or I want to make a few remarks about adolescents. If how they were expected to react. At that stage, I thought we had to be reincarnated, I doubt that anyone in this I had clearly failed to get something across. We are still room would choose to be reincarnated as an adolescent. failing to get quite a lot of things across. We have a They are neither fish nor fowl; they are attached to one myth of the normal and believe that the world divides family but dominated by their peers. They are going into the sane and the insane, the normal and the well, through new states of mind and body, which are exciting and those with issues and those without. and disturbing in equal measure. They are no longer a That is still going strong. The House of Commons child but are not quite an adult. They are advancing in applauds with all the enthusiasm of a revivalist meeting knowledge and understanding, but hormonally and when someone owns up to having mental illness, and we emotionally confused. It is probably the most difficult pat ourselves on the back for being enlightened. However, stage of anybody’s life to negotiate, and I believe it is when a prominent Member of the House has a memory quite hard to be genuinely and consistently happy. In a lapse on TV, which was a mental failing—he said it was society without clear norms and rites of passage, it is an age thing—we scream like banshees, “Bill, Bill, Bill!” probably doubly difficult. at Prime Minister’s questions. That is not a fine example Should we therefore be surprised that adult mental of an atmosphere conducive to good mental health. It is illness is on the rise—the hon. Lady called it an alarming worse than the school yard, but it will be repeated again rise—or does that indicate that we are in a pathogenic, at 12 noon tomorrow. sick-making society? Are we simply getting better at The terrifying thing about adolescent mental illness is diagnosis, or are we applying clinical language to describe that the individuals will never have had anything like it the mood swings of adolescents, which are more normal happen to them before. There is no frame of reference that we like to believe? for what they are going through—it is all new. For them, I find the figure of one in 10 surprising, although as they grow up, a chasm opens up between those who there are undoubtedly some troubled youngsters out can hack life and the small minority who cannot. The there who will not get back on track or lead a normal dread is that they are doomed to be in the latter category life without extensive help. There are those in the early more or less for ever. That is the underlying and horrible stage of psychosis or in the grip of a debilitating neurosis, fear. Successful peers will surround their failing selves. or the depressively suicidal—I know a fair deal about Their fear is that there will be future adults and future that. As hon. Members have said, it is crucial that good casualties, the copers and the failures. services exist for such people, and nobody would disagree Those young people buy, as do big chunks of society, that diagnosis should be early and treatment sensitive into the myth of the normal—the belief that mental and effective. I applaud—as does everybody—the new illness and frailty is not on a spectrum like physical commitment and resources, the drive for parity of esteem, illness, or something that touches everyone to some people speaking out and so on. extent, but something abnormal, unusual, permanently blighting and for keeps. The truth is that mental illness However, I have one problem with the current enlightened is not that. Unless we get that across, we will make mindset and what I call the myth of the normal. Probably matters a whole lot worse. no one here would claim to be in perfect physical health—at least not for long—and we generally cope with the ailments, aches and pains of ordinary life, 5.27 pm seeking help only when something dramatic happens or Robert Flello (Stoke-on-Trent South) (Lab): It is a our own immune system cannot cope. I do not see why pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Southport that should not apply to our perspective and our take (John Pugh) and his contribution to the debate. He on mental health. It is not a black or white issue—it is made extremely good points. not an either/or. The world does not divide into those I should like to refer to an experience I had some who have mental health issues and those who do not; 12 or so years ago of running an organisation in there are simply those whose lives have been disabled by Birmingham called Malachi Community Trust, which their mental health issues, and others who, by and large, worked with young people with emotional, behavioural have coped. and mental health issues. More often than not, it also Many years ago I used to teach adolescents about worked with their families, including parents and their mental health in a Bootle comprehensive school, which wider families, to resolve their issues. We worked with was my own idea. I used to discuss the issue as a qualified cognitive behavioural therapists and teachers— spectrum, and I hoped to encourage a degree of sensitivity. they were primary age children—in the school setting. Children in the playground badly misuse mental health It is interesting but deeply saddening that so many items vocabulary. They call one another “psycho”, “mong”, in this extremely good report take me straight back to “retard” and so on—the school yard can be an awfully some of the conversations of 12 or 14 years ago. cruel place. As part of our course we went to visit an I want to give a brief outline in the unfortunately few old-fashioned mental hospital called Winwick in Rainhill. minutes that are available of what Malachi did—it is It was a large, relatively benign, caring and good institution still going strong. It used musical theatre to engage with of its kind—I had previously worked in a less good young people and as a tool to identify their issues. It institution, Oakwood hospital in Maidstone. I basically enabled processes to be set up to work with those 893 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 894 Services Services children and young people who had more profound years later, without that service—or, where a service has mental health issues. Pertinently for today’s debate, it been developed, it has gone because of the cuts. The acted to stabilise the situation for children who were on Government are now having to undertake a review to waiting lists to see CAMHS staff. Back then, there were take us back to the probably better work being done in three, four and five-month waits, or longer. Malachi the period leading up to 2010. was not the only group that did that work, although it These people want a greater use of technology and was and still is particularly good—I have fond memories access to online support. Technology has come a long of what it did. Malachi and other organisations were way in the past 10 years, and I welcome that good very good at that stabilisation. They were good at suggestion from the children and young people themselves. holding those young people in a place where they were They would like more support from schools and direct not deteriorating while waiting for CAMHS workers. interventions on school premises in the school day, such My fear then, and sadly now, is that an awful lot of as counselling, peer mentors and quiet spaces. There are children—some of our most vulnerable citizens—are quiet spaces in some of the good schools that I am waiting for CAMHS workers and their conditions are blessed to have in Stoke-on-Trent. For example, St Thomas deteriorating, and their needs are getting worse and not More school has a specific arrangement and understanding better, because of the waiting lists. that young people who feel that they need to go out and One of the big issues we identified was family breakdown. get their head together can use the space that has been Parental conflict and family breakdown is a very strong made available. I am sure other schools do that as well, factor in mental ill health in children. A statistic suggests but that example was highlighted to me. Malachi was that one in four young people in Stoke-on-Trent are doing innovative work on support in schools 15 or affected by family breakdown and divorce. That means 20 years ago. I made the point in an intervention on the that approximately 15,500 children in Stoke-on-Trent hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) that when alone will be affected by parental breakdown and divorce. Malachi lost bids to big national charities, those charities That does not immediately mean that those children would then subcontract back to Malachi, because they will have a mental health issue, but it is a factor that knew they had an in with the schools and could provide makes them more vulnerable. To pick up on some of the the service. comments made by the hon. Member for Southport, Going back to the list, those children and young children need the skills and the ability to have resilience, people and the adults supporting them want clearer so that if there are factors that might tip them into step up, step down work given that their mental health having mental ill health issues, they have the resilience needs change and fluctuate, as well as more early support to address them. Sadly, for all too many of our children from non-mental health practitioners and their peers there is not the ability to build that resilience. and/or older mentors. Their final point is that they do My hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central not want to be stigmatised when seeking and accessing (Paul Blomfield) referred to local authorities. The ability help, which is so important. In addition to those things to gain that resilience from services such as those offered that the children and young people want, they have by local authorities is not possible in Stoke-on-Trent, asked for clear referral routes and pathways through where local budgets have almost been wiped out for services, so that they get the intervention they need some children’s services. I seem to be constantly talking quickly, without being referred to multiple services—often to people who used to work for the local authority in waiting some time for an assessment—before finding children’s services, but have now gone off to do other that the service is not the right one for them anyway: things because they can no longer be afforded. The having waited three or four months to get into the main thrust of what I want to say is that more than system, they then find that it is not what they needed 10 years ago there was a shortage of access to CAMHS. and they have to start all over again. We do not seem to have gone anywhere with that. It The children and young people have also asked to be seemed to get better, but it is now getting dramatically involved in planning their own care, to be part of worse. setting their own outcomes and goals, to be consulted Healthwatch Stoke-on-Trent helpfully brought to my when changes are made to service provision and for attention a list of issues that they are concerned about. their parents to be given support so that they can When I say “they”, I mean children, young people and support them. The parents themselves, the carers, have the adults supporting them. It makes deeply saddening asked for there to be clear access to services—that reading. The first item on their list of what they want is comes up time and again—and parenting support in the a single point of access for real-time professional advice community that is easily accessible and non-stigmatising. and guidance that can refer them to mental health Going back to my Malachi days, one of the hugely services with the support they need when there is a important things we did was to work with the parents, crisis. This was again being talked about more than supporting and helping them, enabling them to take on 10 years ago when I was attending meetings in what was a lot of the work of maintaining and helping their own still then, despite the fact it had been going for 10 years, children. a fledgling CAMHS. Nevertheless, even back then there There are a few more items on the list, but I am was talk about having a single point of access. We have conscious that I will rapidly run out of time if I am not come full circle on the need for a single point of access. careful, so I want to move on to a few of the risk Those children, young people and the adults supporting factors. Again, they are not new, but things that we have them talk about information, options and guidance to come across too often, and it is important to raise these navigate the range of services and pathways available to in the context of Stoke-on-Trent. In a report on this, the them, and evidence-based interventions that are appropriate first factor listed among those that will have an impact to them, with follow-up support as needed—the right on children and young people’s mental health is—this service, first time. It is sad that here we are, so many comes up time and time again—deprivation and poverty: 895 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 896 Services Services [Robert Flello] themes that were also evident in the speech of the Select Committee Chairman, my hon. Friend the Member for “The close association between mental disorder”— Totnes (Dr Wollaston). Both touched on what we can as it is termed— do to help people with mental health problems through “and economic disadvantage was clearly illustrated by income volunteering, mentoring and bringing services together analysis in the Mental Health of Children and Young People in so that we have a more substantial whole that will help Great Britain in 2004 survey”, to tackle the fragmentation between different services so this is not new evidence. That is a huge problem in and make something more rational and more joined up. places such as Stoke-on-Trent, where we still have such I was a governor of a residential school for young high levels of deprivation—indeed, they have been made people with emotional and behavioural difficulties in worse recently. the 1980s—Shaftesbury House in Royston. It was an I have mentioned parental conflict and breakdown, Inner London education authority school, which did but there is also communication/speech and language extremely good work with some very troubled young delay. In Stoke-on-Trent there is a huge problem with people. At that time, however, there was a different language delay. Fantastic projects such as Stoke Speaks understanding of mental health issues from what we Out are addressing it, but if a child is having difficulty saw a few years later in 2001 when I was my party’s expressing their needs, how much more difficult will it spokesman on mental health. By that time, there was be for that child—that young person—to be able to much greater recognition that deep-seated mental health eloquently, or indeed adequately, put across what they problems start at ages much younger than adulthood. want from the system that is trying to help them? Previously, there was a feeling that some of these issues Attainment in education is still an issue, despite the were emotional, behavioural and developmental, but dramatic improvements that we saw in Stoke-on-Trent. they were not seen in their true context. Then there is housing and homelessness; and again, the I thus slightly disagree with the hon. Member for poor standard of so much housing still in Stoke-on-Trent Stoke-on-Trent South. I think our understanding of is a tragedy. mental health issues and what they mean for children I want to make an observation about children in care and adolescents has changed over the period that he and some of the organisations. The local authority in spoke about—and certainly since 2001, we know far Stoke-on-Trent has seen a rise in the number of children more about the onset of these illnesses and about how in care in just a short period. From July 2010 to June they should be treated. I agree with him, however, that 2013, there has been an increase of 38% in the number we are seeing a great number of young people affected of children needing support in care in Stoke-on-Trent. by these issues. The hon. Member for Southport (John That is a massive increase in the number of young Pugh) talked about the ups and downs of adolescence people in the care system, which is a huge risk factor for and whether there was such a thing as a normal period mental ill health. of adolescence. I close by observing a couple of things about Stoke- I believe that issues such as family breakdown, drugs, on-Trent. There is, as I have mentioned, Healthwatch social media, and domestic violence put considerable Stoke-on-Trent and the good work it does. There are pressure on young people, and it gets to the point where other organisations doing fantastic and excellent work, some adolescents have a series of crises. They can be including Young Carers—part of North Staffs Carers intermittent, but there is often a recognisable crisis for Association. I have had the huge privilege on a number which help is needed. It is more than just highs and of occasions to meet the young people from Young lows; it is something more serious. In those circumstances, Carers and hear about the amazing things that they— the delays about which we have heard can be particularly children—are called upon to do, quite often looking acute. after their parents, and the huge impact that has on Two young people contacted me recently to raise their mental health. Finally, there is another scheme, issues about how child and adolescent mental health whose details I have unfortunately lost in the pile of is dealt with. They were both very unhappy with the papers in front of me. Home Start has been running in current situation. I thank the Minister for meeting one Stoke-on-Trent for about 30 years. Sadly, because the of them—a young lady who has been through CAMHS local authority is so strapped for cash and has had to —to talk through the issues. She was very appreciative cut its budget, after all that time and after helping of hearing about the taskforce that has been set up, and thousands of families, Home Start is now closed. It is it does the Minister great credit that he was prepared to gone. It is another resource that is no longer there to meet her and that he has accepted that there are problems help the people of Stoke-on-Trent. in the system that need tackling. Delay is certainly one That is the backdrop to the report by the hon. Member them. Another is the amount of help available, and for Totnes and to what the Minister is doing with his particularly whether there are sufficient numbers of investigation, both of which I welcome. It saddens me trained staff—psychiatrists, community psychiatric nurses, so much, however, that we seem to have gone nowhere therapists and so forth. We have never had the numbers in 10 years. Let us try to make sure that we do something we need, and I hope the taskforce will consider that about this in the coming months rather than in the issue. years ahead. The Hertfordshire Partnership Foundation Trust has a youth panel that is deliberately aimed at revealing 5.40 pm concerns. The young lady who came to see the Minister had been on that youth panel. She had suffered from Sir Oliver Heald (North East Hertfordshire) (Con): anxiety, bulimia and depression; she had been bullied, In listening to the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent but got no proper response from her school. She waited South (Robert Flello), I recognised some important nine months for CAMHS, and had still not been given 897 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 898 Services Services an appointment when she attempted suicide. Even after oversee the training and supervising of the mentors. It she had been in hospital, she had to wait for six weeks. speaks of the importance of “offering consultancy and She had only five sessions of therapy in 20 months at a training” and “co-ordinating”, and hopes to engage a time when she was experiencing serious crises. Another “part-time administrator”. It has made considerable young lady who has been in touch with me was taken progress with that model, and, although it will need to into an in-care unit, and it was three weeks before she be evaluated, I think that we should do something similar. saw a psychiatrist, although she too had experienced a The service is harnessing the good will of people who bad crisis. volunteer, and there are people who will do that—when I was a mental health spokesman, I met people who Grahame M. Morris: I cannot disagree with what the volunteered to work for Rethink and MIND—but it hon. and learned Gentleman is saying or the examples also uses the skills of professionals to train the individuals that he is giving, but does he accept the general point concerned, under supervision. It is giving us a lot of that one of the problems when it comes to planning coverage and an ability to help young people relatively effective interventions is the lack of current and accurate cheaply. That is a consideration in these times. I therefore prevalence data that would enable the relevant agencies suggest to the Minister that looking at such initiatives to plan and commission services that meet local and those described on that page of the report is a requirements? possible way forward. Many young people spend a lot of their time using Sir Oliver Heald: I agree. I am sorry that action to social media of course—thumbs clicking at great speed. deal with that problem was cancelled some years ago, This is not necessarily a bad thing. People with anxiety because such action is definitely needed. or depression or another mental health condition could I was talking about the young woman who was taken find online services that could help them and they could to an in-care unit. She said that the staff always seemed reinforce the coping techniques that they have been to be overworked, and she was given no opportunity to taught. I hope the taskforce will look at that. I think it exercise. She felt that, although she had been placed in might be fruitful. the unit, nothing was being done to address her condition. I think that a great deal needs to be done to improve child and adolescent mental health services. 5.50 pm On page 76 of its excellent report, the Select Committee Mr (Coventry North West) (Lab): refers to the Minister’s taskforce, and says that the I am grateful to be called to speak in this debate after “current fragmented commissioning arrangements” must the hon. and learned Member for North East Hertfordshire change (Sir Oliver Heald), who has ministerial experience in “to allow rational and effective use of resources in this area, this sphere. I do not, but I have some experience in which incentivises early intervention.” other spheres of finding money for it and I know how That is an extremely important point. On page 77, the difficult that can be. I therefore congratulate the hon. Committee deals with education and GP services and Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), Chair of the Select makes another important point, namely that this is not Committee, on her report. We in Coventry find it very just about specialist CAMHS, but about school-based timely, and we look forward in due course to the Minister’s counselling. It quotes Mick Cooper, professor of counselling taskforce and its report, leading, we hope, to what the psychology at the university of Roehampton, as saying: hon. Lady very precisely referred to in terms of improvements to services—better services for children “Due to its short waiting times, convenient location, and broad intake criteria, school-based counselling is perceived by many and adults on the ground, which is where it matters. She stakeholder groups as a highly accessible intervention. It is able to also said she found having to grapple with out-of-date offer a wide range of young people professional therapeutic figures—it is rather surprising that we should have support in a direct and immediate way.” them—frustrating. I therefore thought I would take I think it is time that we joined up those services, part in the debate in order to bring up one or two using schools as a platform. In my constituency, there is up-to-date figures on a particular aspect of young persons’ an initiative called the North Herts Emotional Health and adolescents’ mental health that is becoming more Support Service, which aims to make a start with that. and more prevalent, and disconcertingly and alarmingly It has estimated that one in 10 young people aged so in Coventry: self-harm. between five and 16 is likely to be affected by a We have seen a terrible and frightening increase in “clinically significant mental health problem” self-harm over the past five years. The first figures we had were back in 2010 and the figures for 2014 have just at some point, and has calculated on that basis that come out. They show an alarming increase from 50 referrals 18,000 school-aged children in north Hertfordshire are in 2010 to over 300 in 2014. That is a terrifying rate of affected, including about 6,000 with emotional disorders. increase. It has been going pretty steadily at over 20% It has looked at the schools in question, and says: year in, year out, and, as my hon. Friend the Member “Evidence suggests that vulnerable children, young people and for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) pointed out their families find it easier to access services” so tellingly, it points to the impact deprivation and at a school. It has trained a team of mentors consisting poverty can have on children, as there is a fairly well- of teaching assistants, teachers and volunteers, and has established causal link between pockets and areas of identified a deprivation and poverty and the tendency among “bank of quality-assured local counsellors and…therapists” adolescents to self-harm and referrals. who can provide the sort of art and drama therapy that Those referrals come on top of what we already was described by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent know is a crisis in A and E. They are only exacerbating South. It has two local lead therapists whose job is to that, and leading to youngsters with terrible mental 899 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 900 Services Services [Mr Geoffrey Robinson] public expenditure to 1930s levels—from which I know the Minister of State, Department of Health, the right health problems being turned away—doors closed in hon. Member for North Norfolk (Norman Lamb) has their face. It is a situation that in Coventry has led to a dissociated himself—Coventry would experience a further clear and recognisable crisis, and to an emergency meeting 50% cut over the next five years. There would be nothing of the scrutiny board to examine exactly what the left. Fortunately, however, that is unlikely to happen, as situation is, to report on it, and to see what measures I am sure that there will be changes of one kind or can be taken to deal with it. another to those plans, or to those making the plans, in It is often all too easy to blame lack of resources and the very near future. the Government, but, as the Chair of the Select Committee It is impossible for the councils to find more funds, said, there clearly is a lack of resources. Towards the because they are under tremendous pressure, but there end of my brief remarks, I will discuss the fact that has already been a £50 million cut in the budget for mental health services have always been the Cinderella CAMHS. It has been cut from £766 million. I think that services of the health service. I think that is fairly well that relates to the £800 million figure quoted by my accepted both outside and within the NHS. If we are to hon. Friend for Eastleigh— embark on yet another reorganisation and integration of health services as a whole, I hope that the underfunding and the lack of past attention that has affected and led Grahame M. Morris: Easington. to the present situation in mental health services will not be overlooked. It is not as though all the services Mr Robinson: Easington. I beg my hon. Friend’s pardon. can be integrated equally or proportionately, but if The CAMHS budget has been cut to £716 million, certain services are not to be further damaged, they will which is a cut of £50 million. That is an enormous cut. need to receive particular recognition and get preferential priority in the integration—I do not like the word “reorganisation”—which all the parties agree needs to (Windsor) (Con): The hon. Gentleman be done carefully. This should not be rushed. We do not is making a powerful case, particularly on resourcing. want another reorganisation forced on the health service. Clearly, we would all like to see more resources going It should be done sensibly and gradually, and with into adolescent mental health challenges, but does he sensitivity to the individual needs of the services that share my view that if we get this right, with proper are being integrated. standards, proper implementation and early intervention, there could be a net saving to the Exchequer overall? Mr Jim Cunningham: Does my hon. Friend agree that the Caludon health centre at the University Mr Robinson: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman. hospital Coventry does a very good job in very difficult I think the whole House would agree with his intervention, circumstances? Yesterday, I met some young people which was short and to the point. As in so many from Coventry college who told me about the pressures situations, prevention is better than cure. It is also a lot that they were under. They are worried about exams cheaper. We all know that, and there is a case for it in and about whether they will be able to get a job after this context, but it will require investment up front. their exams, because the number of young people out of That is where the Government do not get it, because work in the west midlands is extremely high. Does my they usually take a short-sighted view of these matters. hon. Friend agree that we need to consider all the I wish to make two points in closing. First, if local pressures that young people face these days? councils do not have the resources at the moment, we cannot look to them to provide these services and so Mr Robinson: Yes, I do indeed. The pressure in the they are likely to get overlooked. Lastly, will the Minister education system to achieve results at any cost simply confirm something about the leak—I am sure he will adds to the problem, as do the deprivation and poverty have read about this in the press—from his taskforce, to which other Members have referred. All those factors which speaks of the perverse incentives that have arisen, have resulted in a situation in which incidents of self-harm particularly in relation to mental health, from the are increasing at the rate of 20% a year. Referrals in Government’s reorganisation? Have they exacerbated Coventry are going up, and that constitutes a crisis, the problem? As a result, is the real cost of that given that our accident and emergency services are reorganisation to the mental heath services not £50 million, already overcrowded and hard pressed. but possibly a much higher figure? Let me explain what that crisis means in regard to the In any event, we all know from our constituency number of weeks involved. Normally, effective substantive experience that we have had losses. Last night, I saw in a intervention would be expected within 18 weeks, but in television programme that we have lost hundreds of Coventry the average wait for a substantive intervention doctors and thousands of nurses, and the prospect in has been 44 weeks. That is in a sector in which early the next few years is an accelerating trend on both. So intervention is clearly the most effective route to the the Labour party’s commitment for 20,000 new nurses successful management and eventual elimination of a and 8,000 new doctors is a bold one, but it is manageable. mental health condition. That simply is not good enough, It is also absolutely necessary if we are to deal with any and I put that to the Minister for consideration by his of our current problems. That is the message I would taskforce. like to leave the House with. We need early intervention; We have asked the local council what can be done. a commitment to increase the number of doctors and As my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South nurses; parity of treatment—and even ahead of that— (Mr Cunningham) has said, budgets have been heavily in the integration of mental health services; and the cut. According to current Government plans to reduce restoration of the CAMHS budget as soon as possible. 901 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 902 Services Services 6.1 pm teachers are scared of mental health issues. In some cases, therefore, pupils experiencing mental health problems Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): It is a pleasure did not receive the support that they needed. to take part in this debate as a member of the Committee, and I associate myself with the kind words of our I started teaching in 2002. When I think back to some excellent chairperson, my hon. Friend the Member for of the young people we had to deal with, I can see that Totnes (Dr Wollaston), about everyone who gave evidence, many of them probably had mental health issues. At the and about all the Clerks and House staff who supported time though, those pupils were dismissed as being badly the inquiry. It was one of the most important and behaved or as having background problems. As a far-reaching inquiries we have undertaken in the past practitioner, I was sometimes guilty of not understanding few years, and I was proud to have been a part of it, the signs that were being presented to me. However, because the issue is so important. teachers cannot be blamed for that; they work in a I wish to make a few general comments about this pressured environment. The pressures around school whole area and then to talk specifically about the role standards seem to get more intense every year and with schools can play in mental health services for children every Government initiative. and young people. I noted with interest the comments What we did hear in our evidence was that 61% to made by the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South 85% of schools are providing access to school-based (Robert Flello). The comments today have generally counselling. Although that is a wide variation, it is a been quite consensual, although something I will say a positive thing. We heard that some schools engage little later about funding may be less consensual. He really proactively with the local authority and the NHS pointed out that 10 years ago we were having many of in this area. Unfortunately, though, we also heard of these same conversations, but things have really moved others that do not engage so well. Some schools seem to on in the past 10 years, not least in this area; we heard in think that mental health issues are for health services our inquiry about the increase in demand. Although and social services, but not for schools. When we talk many of the pressures young people faced 10 years ago about integration in all areas of health care, this area is are similar, a whole host of other pressures on young one in which we need it the most and, potentially, it people now did not exist then, particularly those of a could have the biggest impact. My hon. Friend the cyber nature, be it those arising from Facebook, Twitter Member for Totnes talked about early intervention. or online bullying. When I started teaching in 2002 When we fail in that regard, the consequences are people did not have a great deal of understanding or picked up by other services. That means that we have expectation of any of those things, but they have now increased referrals and more behavioural difficulties in become so widespread that we have had a massive our schools, which leads to more exclusions. Those increase in demand in this area. exclusions have consequences not just for the management In addition, the way in which mental health services of the school but for that young person’s life chances. and care are delivered has changed beyond recognition What can we do in schools to make a real difference? during that period, and some would argue that it has Increased collaboration among the services is vital. not always been for the better. As we know, between Although we talk about integration and greater 1998 and 2010 the number of mental health beds reduced collaboration, we need someone at some point to take from 35,000 to 25,000, and we have seen a continuing responsibility for that and to be held accountable when shift away from in-patient treatment units. What came that collaboration does not work. As we heard in our out of this inquiry, and what I have seen in my constituency evidence sessions, some schools are keen to take the in mental health service provision for both young people lead in that regard, and others less so. Clearly, this is an and adults, is that although that more traditional unit-based, area where we need greater clarity. hospital-based, bed-based system of treatment has changed, what has replaced it has not necessarily always filled The curriculum was raised by a number of young users with confidence or has even been consistent across people, particularly around personal, social, health and the country. As our report makes clear, there is a lot economic education. They said, “We learn everything in more we need to do. PSHE. We learn about sexual activity, financial matters, career advice and career choices, but what we do not As I have said, I wish to focus on what we heard from learn about is mental health and well-being.” Ofsted young people. It was great that our inquiry had a found that 40% of PSHE provision required improvements session with young service users, including some from nationally and that one third of young people say that Hull, near my area, who came down to tell us about they want to know more about how to deal with stress how they have engaged with local voluntary, local authority and how to access help for eating disorders. Some 38% and, of course, school services. In our inquiry, we heard said that they wanted education around bereavement, that the support schools offer young people is very which surprised me. patchy across the country, changing even within cities or within counties. Some young people we heard from, We have seen some good things happen with the and some of the other evidence we took, made it clear curriculum. We heard in our inquiry that the ICT that some of the best support they had received had curriculum now contains a section on cyber-bullying. come from dedicated teachers who understood mental Clearly, some improvements have been highlighted but health issues, really wanted to engage with those young an awful lot more still needs to be done. The focus people on them and help them access services. Having a should be on young people as much as it is on teacher teacher who was engaged and who understood what to training. In our evidence sessions, we heard from the look for in mental health really helped young people. Secretary of State about how a great deal of effort has Some pupils had different experiences. They felt that gone into providing teachers with the tools to deal with teachers either lacked the skills or were too disinterested mental health issues and to improve training, and that is to deal with the problem. Very often that can be because really important. 903 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 904 Services Services [Andrew Percy] starts before the age of 18. Apart from the mental health manifestations, there are often increased physical When I did my postgraduate certificate in education, health problems associated with the deterioration in I do not remember receiving a great deal of education mental health. Disturbingly, since 1980, as others have about mental health and young people’s emotional well- mentioned, there has been no decline in the number of being. Clearly, that needs to change, but the focus deaths caused by self-harm, suicide or assault, with should be not only on equipping teachers better, but on more than 1,000 10 to 18-year-olds dying this way every ensuring through the curriculum that young people are year in the United Kingdom. The problem is particularly able to understand mental health issues. The stigma prevalent among boys. needs to be removed through both teacher training and An hon. Member who spoke earlier talked about the the curriculum, and young people who have had experience value of prevention and early intervention and alluded of mental health issues should be involved in developing to a cost-benefit analysis, and he was absolutely right. that curriculum. Quite apart from the fact that it is the right thing to do, I wanted to say a little more about youth services, but if we look at it purely in terms of the opportunity cost, I do not have a great deal of time. We have heard a lot we see that mental health problems that start in childhood about council spending reductions and the impact that and adolescence result in increased costs of between that can have. The truth is that whoever was in power, £11,000 and £59,000 per child annually, according to we would be in this position, with council budgets figures provided by the Royal College of Paediatrics having been reduced. In my area, I am very pleased that and Child Health. Those are huge additional costs. North Lincolnshire council has made a concerted effort With upstream interventions of the kind other Members to reverse the cuts to youth services instituted by the have argued for, early identification of mental health previous administration of a different party, which cut difficulties should be established as a core capacity of the services by £194,000. Even in these tough times the all health, social care and educational professionals council has been able to put in an extra £100,000 of who work with children and young people, because the funding and over the next three years will add to that a benefits would be considerable. further £300,000. Another issue that has been talked about, and which Local authorities can do that if they have the necessary I feel I must mention, is the provision of an evidence vision. In the case of North Lincolnshire, the driver for base on which to plan interventions. Indeed, the chief that is a very good portfolio holder in the cabinet who medical officer highlighted the lack of accurate prevalence understands that we have to get it right early. That data in evidence to the Committee. I fully understand means that we need proper investment in positive activities that the Minister is carrying the can and making the for young people, because that allows savings elsewhere arguments, but that survey had not been carried out for down the line. Despite all the difficulties that we have quite a few years. Although it has now been commissioned, faced in local government funding, where there is leadership my understanding is that the data will not be available and vision, people who understand the value of these for use until 2017. If we are to have a scientific or services can find the money to invest in them. With that, empirical basis on which to plan commissioning and I will end as I am conscious of time and I know that one resources, either in early years or in whichever tier is of my colleagues wishes to speak. thought appropriate, we need an up-to-date and relevant evidence base of data. 6.11 pm Sir Oliver Heald: On the hon. Gentleman’s point Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I congratulate about prevalence data, with which I agree, is not the real the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole (Andrew Percy), point that many of the contracts in mental health are with whom I serve on the Health Committee, and the block contracts, whereby a fixed amount of activity is hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who so ably purchased? If we do not know exactly what the prevalence chairs the Committee. Although this report is the third really is, that is a bit of a shot in the dark. report of the 2014-15 Session, I think it was the first report produced under the hon. Lady’s chairmanship, Grahame M. Morris: I cannot disagree with that. I so it is quite an historic document. It is an important come from the perspective that we need to plan interventions piece of work on a subject that has been neglected. on the basis of evidence, but how can we do that As time is short, I shall try to stick to a particular without current and relevant data on child and adolescent structure. I thank the Royal College of Paediatrics and mental health? We certainly need that data. On the Child Health for providing a briefing and for asking us structure of the contracts, I am a firm believer in to highlight some of its concerns about variations in integration. There may well be issues with block contracts. services and funding for transition services and mental The Health Committee received evidence from the south- health care provision for prevention and early intervention. west indicating that there are vast areas of the country A number of right hon. and hon. Members have referred where there is very little access to certain types of to those issues. I also want to make a few points from in-patient mental health provision, which is clearly the perspective of local government. As we have heard unacceptable. One might have thought that a large and as the hon. Member for Brigg and Goole observed, block contract would make that less likely, but apparently this is an area of joint responsibility where local government, that is not so. However, I am not an expert in given the correct support and resourcing, can make a commissioning; I am simply trying to identify the policy significant difference. areas. On the scale of the problem, it is a shocking statistic Having spent a number of years in local government, that 50% of mental illness in adult life, excluding dementia, I have no doubt that local authorities wish to tackle starts before the age of 15, and 75% of mental illness some of the barriers that young people face in accessing 905 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 906 Services Services mental health services. It is a complicated area, and we play a vital role in working with health services to target need to enable local areas—the hon. and learned Member support and co-ordinate services, and they should play for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) just a key role in directing the funding. referred to larger block contracts—to commission better services, and perhaps that is better done on a more local level. 6.23 pm Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): I apologise for not Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Does my arriving for the first part of the debate; sadly, I was hon. Friend realise that one of the problems with block detained elsewhere. I wanted to say a few words about contracts is that, because of their size, they freeze out this excellent report. I commend the Chair of the Health small voluntary organisations that could deliver services Committee and its other members for producing a very on a local basis? well-balanced report that does not appear to be partisan in any way but does point to some of the problems that Grahame M. Morris: That is true. Some of the still exist in our child and adolescent mental health organisations that submitted evidence to the Health services, and to some of the possible solutions, if any Committee and subsequently provided briefings made future Government were to adopt its recommendations. that point. The other impressive thing about the report is that it Another issue of concern is the complex commissioning does not apportion blame. It merely observes that there landscape for CAMHS, which can result in poorly are challenges, without attributing blame on a partisan co-ordinated services and a lack of clarity about roles basis or to a particular group or individual. It can often and responsibilities, leading to gaps in provision and be hard to implement the recommendations in these poor transitions from child to adolescent and from reports if it is felt that a finger is pointed at particular adolescent to adult. The service is certainly underfunded. body. We often talk in this place about parity of esteem. As Clearly, mental health challenges are widespread. As other Members have reported, CAMHS nationally is other Members have observed, they generally start when receiving about £1.8 billion of the £14 billion that is people are younger; it is unusual for a mental health spent on mental health. Local authority-provided services, challenge suddenly to appear out of the blue. That is which are often having to bridge the gap, are facing why this report and looking at early intervention is very huge financial challenges. My local authority, which I important if we want to tackle mental health services share with my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham for citizens and mental health outcomes for our constituents. (Mr Jones), has had to cope with cuts of £250 million The mental health unit at Heatherwood hospital in my over the lifetime of this Parliament. That is forcing constituency has been transferred to Reading. It strikes councils to make extremely difficult decisions about me that that is very positive in many ways, because it which services are funded. enables more integrated services to be provided in a I fully understand the point made by the hon. Member larger establishment, which has more resources and is for Brigg and Goole, but I also fully understand the better able to deal with the people who present themselves difficult decisions faced particularly by authorities in there. the north that seem to be suffering disproportionate I want to focus on a couple of positives that I very cuts. Councils are embracing their new public health much welcome among the recommendations. One is the responsibilities— recommendation to develop, implement and monitor minimum standards. It seems to me that that is exactly Andrew Percy: I hope the hon. Gentleman understands what we do in every other area of health care. When I that both my local authorities are in the north of was shadow Minister for Science and Innovation, it was England; I would not want him to get his geography precisely what the Medicines and Healthcare Products wrong. Regulatory Agency and the then National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence intended when it came to interventions requiring medical trials and proper Grahame M. Morris: I am certainly aware that some evidence. Minimum standards are an absolute minimum, authorities are facing higher cuts than others. My area to put it that way, if we are absolutely serious about is one of relatively high deprivation, but we seem to be ensuring that care is consistent and does not fall below in a far worse position than some in the south that are a well defined level in services and the way in which they more affluent and do not have the same kinds of pressures. are provided. In rural areas, in particular, people face problems It is clear that the recommendations on intervention with travelling long distances, a lack of accessibility to and recognition in schools and GP surgeries are already specialist services, and long waits. One issue is the very well known among Members. In the 10 years that I 12-week target for referral to CAMHS in cases where have been here, I have heard debates in which such children and adolescents are referred out of their local points have been highlighted. It is good to see a recognition areas. Transition between services varies from one area in print that there needs to be more awareness in schools. to another. In some areas it happens at 16, in some at I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and 18, and in some at a point in between. These issues all Goole (Andrew Percy), who was a teacher for many need to be addressed. years before he entered this place, for his words on this Fundamentally, this issue comes down to funding. I subject. Without the relevant guidance, it is quite tricky welcome the establishment of the taskforce and the to differentiate between children who, just from their provision of £30 million over the next five years to background or families, one thinks are just being tricky, improve services for young people with mental health and children who are presenting with a diagnosable and problems. However, we must recognise that councils observable emotional or clinical mental health condition. 907 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 908 Services Services [Adam Afriyie] vulnerable children and young people, who are often scared and in states of high distress and trauma. They On in-patient care for people under section 136 of the and their families deserve the very best care and support Mental Health Act 1983, times have moved on. The that our NHS can offer. However, as the Health Committee days when the idea was that somebody in such a unit found, for too long they have been overlooked. should feel that it was akin to a prison must be well I think that anyone who has read the report would behind us. I very much welcome much of the work agree that it is damning in parts. It concludes: already done in the NHS and elsewhere to make sure “There are serious and deeply ingrained problems with the that although such units are secure and can protect the commissioning and provision of Children’s and adolescents’ mental vulnerable young people housed in them, they are developed health services. These run through the whole system from prevention not just as a location in which to keep them safe, but as and early intervention through to inpatient services for the most a place with the services—the cognitive behavioural vulnerable young people.” therapy, the psychiatrists and the psychologists—required We have heard that Members from all parts of the to reintegrate them into society. House share the concerns that are expressed in the Without criticising the report, I would have liked it to report. It was valuable and helpful to hear not only go a little further on online resources and the digital from members of the Committee, but from other Members world. It seems to me that we often see Twitter, social who have experience from their constituencies and from media and technology as a huge danger with all sorts before they came to the House. of negative consequences, and that we seldom see Many Members in this debate and in previous debates the positive applications that could be made in the in the House have raised horrifying and tragic cases online and digital world. I very much welcome the involving their constituents. Most Members know all acknowledgment of the extra stresses and burdens that too well the pressure that too many parts of CAMHS social media place on young people in particular. I also are increasingly under. Sadly, the reports of children welcome the allusion to how, perhaps with more resources facing long waits for treatment, being sent hundreds of and more proactive health care providers and more miles for a bed or not getting any help at all are too proactive people with an interest in mental health conditions, common. In my capacity as shadow Minister for public technology could be made part of the answer. When health with responsibility for mental health, I have somebody is being bullied on Twitter or social media, received too many messages from young people across technology could be used to create a little pop-up the country that paint a picture of services that are saying, “Hey. This looks like bullying. Would you like to under immense pressure and of waits that pass the three analyse how you’re feeling about that?” month and six month marks. Indeed, we heard from There could be all sorts of excellent uses of digital my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry North West technology to help people through a process, through a (Mr Robinson) about constituents who have waited partial process of CBT or in identifying the problems 44 weeks. they face, and online resources could be exceptionally The Minister is open about the scale of the challenge helpful in that regard. A lot of the process is about and acknowledges that there is much to do. The acknowledgment and recognition and then of leading Government accepted in their response to the report people on to the next step, but if they do not feel that that the mental health and well-being support that is fulfilling the criteria for having a mental health challenge offered to children and young people, as well as to their will be an embarrassment or that stigma will be attached families and carers, often falls short. The Government to them, such technology could guide and lead them to accept that there is a need to improve the system. getting additional help. When the Government look at Today’s debate has been a much needed contribution to the report, perhaps they could look even further into the parliamentary and public understanding of the using the online world and digital technology as part of challenges that the system is facing. It has been an the cure. opportunity for the House to hold the Government to As a former shadow Minister, I would like to say that account on their response and on the action that they if we had a pill that cured 50% of people of any illness must now take to get to grips with these challenges. or mental health condition that they had after six The shortage of beds, which the Select Committee weeks, we would say that it was a miracle cure. Certainly highlighted, is of great concern to many Members. for less acute mental health conditions among adolescents, The Government response refers to NHS England’s cognitive behavioural therapy is that wonder pill. We commitment to commission 50 more beds. We understand need to see more investment in, further roll-out of and that NHS England has opened the majority of those quicker access to such services. beds. I hope that in his response the Minister will confirm when the remaining few will open. Does he consider the 6.30 pm additional 50 beds to be sufficient, in the light of the pressures that CAMHS is facing? Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op): The system clearly is not working in some parts of I thank the Chair of the Health Committee, the hon. the country. Members on both sides of the House will Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston),and the other members have been shocked to read in The Observer a few weeks of her Committee for their thorough and valuable ago that commissioners from NHS England sent out an report, and for giving us the opportunity to debate this e-mail on a Friday night to warn that there would be a important issue. national shortage of in-patient beds for children over When we discuss complex commissioning and funding the weekend and that it was likely that children would arrangements, as we are today, we must not lose sight of need to be placed on adult wards. Almost a year ago, the people at the heart of the matter. I remind the the chief executive of YoungMindssaid that the increase House that we are talking about some of the most in the number of children placed on adult wards was 909 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 910 Services Services entirely predictable following cuts to mental health I listened to the speech by the hon. Member for Brigg services. I hope the Minister will say what more he can and Goole (Andrew Percy), but Liverpool’s budget has do to assess and reassess the situation. been cut by 56%. The idea that Liverpool city council is Ensuring that we have enough beds to prevent children not interested in youth services could not be further from having to travel hundreds of miles from home for from the truth, but the reality is that applying the funds treatment or to avoid being detained in police cells is, of available to it to youth services is incredibly challenging. course, critical, and Members have addressed that issue. According to research by YoungMinds, two thirds of However, as the Committee points out, councils in England have reduced their CAMHS budget “commissioning extra inpatient capacity alone will not be enough since 2010. When the charity asked NHS trusts and to alleviate the current problems being experienced” councils about other mental health spending targeted at in relation to in-patient services. children and young people, such as youth counselling or specific services for schools, it found that more than I appreciate that some of the issues are long-standing half of them had cut their budgets, some by as much as historical challenges, but it is certainly fair to say that 30%. It is therefore unsurprising that the Committee this Government’s reorganisation has exacerbated those reported that poor provision of lower tier services has challenges. The Committee’s report states: likely been a key factor in the increase in the number of “Despite the move to national commissioning over a year children and young people requiring admission to in-patient ago…NHS England has yet to ‘take control’ of the inpatient services. commissioning process, with poor planning, lack of co-ordination, and inadequate communication with local providers and In their response the Government refer to extra funding commissioners.” for early intervention in psychosis services and crisis NHS England itself has acknowledged weaknesses in care, but will that not merely take us back to where we commissioning as a reason for bed pressures and patients were before these cuts? What proportion of the new being inappropriately admitted to specialised units. The funding that the Minister has announced will be directed Committee highlighted the concerns that professionals towards services for under 18s? I am particularly interested have been raising for more than a year about the new in the work of the Government’s taskforce on ways to split in commissioning between tier 4 services, which are incentivise investment in early intervention—again, it the in-patient beds commissioned nationally by NHS would be helpful to have an update on that. Will the England, and lower tier services, which are commissioned Minister match the Opposition’s ambition to increase by clinical commissioning groups. It does not take a the proportion of the mental health budget that is spent genius to work out that that arrangement results in the on children over time—again, that point has been raised perverse incentive for CCGs to refer children to tier 4 by hon. Members on both sides of the House? in-patient services, because they do not have to pay for Schools are an obvious place for prevention work to them, rather than treat them in the community, where take place, and I was interested to hear the intervention they have to fund the places. We know that treatment in from the hon. and learned Member for North East the community can be so much better for many of those Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) about the experience young people’s outcomes and their long-term recovery, of schools in his area. The Committee found that in too but the current situation is exacerbating many issues many schools counselling services are unavailable, even and problems. though they can provide lower level preventive intervention The Minister himself has said that current fragmented that can stop problems from subsequently becoming commissioning arrangements make “no sense” and are more serious. Again, will the Minister update the House “dysfunctional”. It would be helpful to hear from him on his work with colleagues in the Department for what more the Government plan to do to address the Education to improve that situation? Will he meet the situation. In their response to the Committee, the Opposition’s commitment to produce a strategy to help Government said that their taskforce would look at local authorities with their local NHS and schools to determining a way in which commissioning can be work together, to ensure that all children can access sufficiently integrated. Given that we had to read about school-based counselling or therapy if they need it? the taskforce conclusions on the pages of a Does he agree that in future all teachers should have couple of weeks ago, perhaps the Minister will do us the training in child mental health so that they are equipped courtesy of updating the House on what action the to identify, support and refer children with mental Government will take. health problems? The Government have also announced that NHS A few other issues were raised in the debate, although England has funded eight pilots looking into collaborative I am conscious that we want to hear from the Minister joint commissioning arrangements for children and young and I have just three minutes to respond. The work people’s mental health, so it would be really helpful to force were mentioned, as was ensuring that all GPs are have an update on the progress of those pilots. trained in mental health. The Opposition have committed The commissioning confusion caused by the NHS to ensuring that training for all professional staff in the reorganisation would be a challenge in itself, but, combined NHS includes mental health. Does the Minister support with the cuts to local authority CAMHS and early that ambition? Data were mentioned by Members on intervention services, it is having a devastating impact. both sides of the House, and up-to-date data and There has been £50 million-worth of cuts to CAMHS information are critical to provide safe and effective since 2010. There have also been cuts to local authority services that meet the needs of children, young people, CAMHS and to early intervention in psychosis services, their families and carers. a reduction in social workers and a decimation of the I share the Committee’s concern that the most recent early intervention grant in many parts of the country, data from the Office for National Statistics on children which is putting pressure on in-patient services, particularly and young people’s mental health are now 10 years old, in areas with higher levels of deprivation. and the Minister said that CAMHS has been operating 911 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 912 Services Services [Luciana Berger] Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): Because of the Minister’s visit to my constituency, he will be in a fog without that information. I welcome the aware that young people from Wales are being treated commitment to a new national prevalence survey of in Kent and Northampton. Does he agree that that will child and adolescent mental health data, and that that is do nothing to provide decent service, care and treatment a priority. Again, it would be helpful to have an update for them? on that. Can the Minister set out the time frame for work that will take place before February 2016 when we Norman Lamb: I agree. It is intolerable. One can only understand that that data set will start? imagine the impact on the family having to travel such In conclusion, as we have heard, significant questions long distances. My hon. Friend and I had that discussion remain. Much of the Government’s response to the in Brecon with the family concerned. It is shocking that Committee’s report has referred to the work of the that practice continues. It must be a priority. CAMHS taskforce, which the Minister has established My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes said that the and is yet formally to publish its report, even though importance of early intervention is a central theme of elements of it have been leaked to the press. It would be the report. There is great scope for much more to be helpful for the Minister to update the House on when done on public mental health. It was revealed recently the taskforce report will be published in full, and to say that a tiny proportion of public health budgets in whether he intends to follow it with tangible action—I localities is spent on public mental health, and yet we appreciate that there will be recommendations, but it know—there is loads of evidence—that, if we invest in would be helpful to know what the Government intend public mental health, we can achieve a significant return to do. on it. I welcome the report. Children and young people are struggling with mental The hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) illness, and in some cases their illness is becoming so talked about what young people had told him. It was severe that they are turning up in A and E—just this great that they were given a voice directly in this place. I week a response to a parliamentary question showed welcome his comments. In a very thoughtful speech, as that young people are turning up in A and E with always, my hon. Friend the Member for Southport mental illness not just once but two, three, four or five (John Pugh) talked about a continuum. Many of us are times. They often wake up in hospital beds too many susceptible to poor mental health in certain circumstances. miles from their families and friends, and are simply not That makes the point about the importance of schools, receiving any help at all. We are having this debate on which other hon. Members mentioned, in building resilience their behalf, and I hope the Minister will tell the House and keeping youngsters stronger so that they can cope what action he will be taking to put that situation right. with all the challenges they inevitably face these days. We must get to a point where a child can feel that it is The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert as safe to talk about their mental health as about their Flello) talked about Malachi, an organisation he was physical health, and where all children feel that they can involved with, and about the triggers that can cause tell someone about their anxiety as easily as they can mental ill health among youngsters. Family breakdown speak about their headache or a stomach bug. Crucially, is one, but bereavement can have a significant impact, as when they do that they must get the help they need, can bullying at school, which another hon. Member when and where they need it. I look forward to the mentioned. Minister’s response. Robert Flello: Will the Minister give way? 6.44 pm The Minister of State, Department of Health (Norman Norman Lamb: I am conscious that I need to get Lamb): The debate has been undertaken in a rational through quite a lot in the time available to me. way—we have not had the hurling of abuse from one I thank my hon. and learned Friend the Member for side to the other. My hon. Friend the Member for North East Hertfordshire (Sir Oliver Heald) for his Windsor (Adam Afriyie) said that the report is objective kind comments. He was absolutely right about the and that it analyses problems and seeks to come up with potential for online access. The hon. Member for Windsor solutions. The debate has been conducted in that way, made a similar point. There is enormous potential. One which I welcome. platform is called Kooth. Good evidence is developing I am grateful to the Health Committee for its work, about the impact that online access can have. Given that and for the inspired leadership of my hon. Friend the so many youngsters with poor mental health get no Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston), who speaks with support at all, we can do a lot to increase access, not as great authority on the subject. She is a force for good in a replacement for other services, but as a complement. this place. I thank her for her leadership. He, too, talked about the importance of the role of My hon. Friend said that the report was triggered by schools. the awful practice of youngsters being shunted around I worked in Parliament as a junior researcher in 1980, the country in the middle of a crisis. The situation with for a Labour MP.I shared an office with the secretary of adults is just as bad. That practice should not happen the hon. Member for Coventry North West (Mr Robinson). other than where there is a specialist need and a specialist He is still here 35 years later. He is clearly the great service that cannot, with the best will in the world, be survivor. He referred to the most appalling wait of provided in every locality. We have sought to analyse 44 weeks in Coventry, which is totally unacceptable. I the causes of out-of-area placements. We see enormous do not know what is going wrong in that locality, but variation around the country. Many areas do not do it, that is not matched in many other places. There may be but where it does happen, we believe that simple steps particular problems that need to be faced. In a way, that could be taken to stop it. In my view, they must be taken. makes the case I have been making throughout my 913 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 914 Services Services time as Minister that the same access and waiting time service based on the quickest intervention, with specialist standards for physical health should exist for mental support for youngsters very quickly reducing massively health. That is the big discrimination against mental in-patient admissions. That is the sort of service we health, and it has existed for a very long time. need to see across the country. There is a brilliant in-patient facility in Colchester, where there is a great (Gateshead) (Lab): Waiting times are so school in the mental health service so that youngsters much more crucial for children and young people with do not lose out on their education while they are mental health issues. receiving support. There are some brilliant third sector organisations. MAC-UK is a wonderful organisation, Norman Lamb: I totally agree. When I embarked on which takes therapy out on to the streets to support the mission to introduce waiting time standards in youngsters who get involved in gangs, rather than expecting mental health, I was very clear throughout that they youngsters in those circumstances to visit traditional must apply equally in children’s services, as in any other services. MAP—the Mancroft Advice Project—in Norwich service. One of the first two standards we are introducing is a brilliant service supporting youngsters in a non- from April this year is a two-week standard to start stigmatising way. treatment for early intervention in psychosis, where Since 2010, we have raised the profile of children and there is a wealth of evidence that quick intervention can young people’s mental health to unprecedented levels. lead to good results. We have produced the mental health and suicide prevention My hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole strategies, set out the top 25 priorities to help to achieve (Andrew Percy) talked about the absolute importance parity of esteem in the “Closing the gap” document last of youngsters learning about mental health at school. It year, and we have worked, through Time to Change, to ought to be part of the curriculum, and we would benefit reduce the stigma attached to mental health issues. The a lot if that was the case. He also made the important 2014-15 mandate to NHS England sets it a clear objective point that although lots of areas of the country have to deliver equality and parity of esteem, and in 2014 we seen really ridiculous disinvestment in mental health published our five-year vision for mental health. At its and children’s mental health, other enlightened areas heart was a radical change: an ambition to set access have not done that. There is no necessity for it to and waiting time standards for mental health—just as happen; it depends on what the local priorities are. In they exist for physical health—including children and his area they have done the right thing and made the young people’s mental health, for all services by 2020. necessary investment. That is a landmark step in rebalancing our health and The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) care system and achieving equality. talked about the horror of suicide. The husband of my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes is a psychiatrist in Mr Robinson: It is good to hear that the Government Devon. He has been a brilliant advocate of the case for are setting those targets. Will the Minister have a look at a zero-suicide ambition. Every organisation within the the situation in Coventry and explain to me why that NHS ought to be setting the same ambition that has has happened? Can he also confirm that the targets he been set in Devon. has set will be achievable, despite the £50 million cut The Government have prioritised improving mental that has been made? health as part of our commitment to achieving parity of esteem, or, as I would prefer to call it, equality. I have been frank that the current system for supporting children Norman Lamb: I am very happy to look at Coventry and young people’s mental health is simply not good if the hon. Gentleman wants to send me a note about enough, but let us be clear that this is not a new problem. that. Previous reviews into CAMHS have identified similar I make the case that there needs to be more investment in issues to those that the Committee highlights, such as a mental health, and my party has argued for £500 million lack of beds, complex commissioning and referral of additional investment a year in mental health in arrangements, poor practice around transition from the next Parliament. Investing £54 million for the children to adult services, and instances of children children and young people’s IAPT—improving access being treated far from home or on adult wards. These to psychological therapies—programme has started to issues are deep-seated and hard to resolve. Lord Crisp transform existing services, and it now covers 68% of was recently quoted in the Health Service Journal, when the nought to 19-year-old population, which exceeds asked about parity of esteem: the original target of 60% by 2015. NHS England “If something has developed over 40 or 50 years you don’t continues to plan for nationwide roll-out, as set out in solve it in five minutes.” the mandate, which should be achieved by 2018. I know a youngster who in the past decade was horribly As part of the autumn statement, the Deputy Prime let down by mental health services at that time. This is Minister and I announced £150 million of investment not something that has just emerged over the course of over the next five years to deal with eating disorders. this Parliament. I fully recognise that too many areas of This will help to ensure that any young person can get the country have disinvested in young people’s mental the help they need, no matter where they live, and will health. I firmly believe that the situation can and must allow the development of waiting time standards for improve. The Government have taken steps to do this. eating disorders from 2016. This is a condition that can It is worth saying that, as I have done this job, I have kill, so it is so important that we get early access. We seen some really impressive services. There is a brilliant have invested £3 million in MindEd, a digital resource NHS team in Accrington providing the best possible to help people who work with young people and children. service to young people. I visited South London and It is an online platform designed to give them the help Maudsley, where there is a fantastic eating disorder that they need in the work that they do. 915 Child and Adolescent Mental Health 3 MARCH 2015 916 Services [Norman Lamb] ESTIMATES 2014-15

The prevalence survey is being undertaken—we have EPARTMENT FOR COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL secured the money for it—and we plan for it to be ready D GOVERNMENT by 2017. The aim is for it to cover children and young people from two years to 19 years, which is a wider Resolved, range than in the original survey. That should be widely That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure welcomed. by the Department for Communities and Local Government: As for the taskforce, although there has been much (1) further resources, not exceeding £752,206,000 be authorised progress, the Government have been open about the for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1019, scale of the challenge and acknowledged that there is (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be still much to do. As the Committee is aware, I set up the reduced by £607,860,000 as so set out, and taskforce last summer. It is chaired jointly by the (3) the sum authorised for issue out of the Consolidated Fund Department and NHS England and brings together a be reduced by £1,092,985,000 as so set out. whole load of experts from outside Whitehall and listens to the voice of young people as well. This is a massive MINISTRY OF DEFENCE opportunity fundamentally to modernise the way that Resolved, children and young people’s health services operate, embracing the role of the voluntary sector and the That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure potential for online support for youngsters, and sorting by the Ministry of out this ridiculous, fragmented commissioning. The Defence: problem has been there for a long time, but things need (1) the resources authorised for use for current purposes be to be made much simpler, so that we can have coherent reduced by £618,573,000 as set out in HC 1019, services that are easily understandable for children and (2) further resources, not exceeding £426,760,000 be authorised their families. If we can grasp this opportunity, we can for use for capital purposes as so set out, and make a massive difference for young people. (3) a further sum, not exceeding £426,834,000 be granted to Let me say a word about crisis care. In a way, this is Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated the area where the gap between physical and mental Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised health is greatest. The Torbay case that my hon. Friend by Parliament. the Member for Totnes mentioned was a shock to the system, although we have already seen considerable DEPARTMENT FOR WORK AND PENSIONS reductions in the number of young people going into Resolved, police stations. We are on course to see a reduction of about 30% this year, but it needs to be much greater That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure than that. In my view, we need to legislate to end the by the Department for Work and Pensions: practice completely. It is surely completely unacceptable (1) further resources, not exceeding £910,407,000 be authorised that young people under the age of 18 end up in police for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1019, cells rather than in a hospital. That practice simply has (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be to come to an end. reduced by £6,689,000 as so set out, and I applaud everyone who has participated in this debate (3) a further sum, not exceeding £2,183,111,000 be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated on a really important subject. I think we have an Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised opportunity massively to improve things. by Parliament. Mr Speaker: We thank the Minister whose sense of timing is almost immaculate. I know that he intended DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH that this debate should finish at seven o’clock, which it Resolved, has done. That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015, for expenditure Question deferred (Standing Order No. 54). by the Department of Health: 7pm (1) further resources, not exceeding £866,629,000 be authorised for use for current purposes as set out in HC 1019, The Speaker put the deferred Questions (Standing (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be Order No. 54). reduced by £635,000,000 as so set out, and (3) the sum authorised for issue out of the Consolidated Fund be reduced by £679,772,000 as so set out. The Speaker then put the Questions on the outstanding Estimates (Standing Order No. 55)

ESTIMATES 2015-16 (NAVY) VOTE A Resolved, That, during the year ending with 31 March 2016, a number not exceeding 35,850 all ranks be maintained for Naval Service and that numbers in the Reserve Naval and Marines Forces be authorised for the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A 2015–16, HC 1054.—(.) 917 Estimates 3 MARCH 2015 918

ESTIMATES 2015-16 (ARMY) VOTE A 31 March 2014, 31 March 2015 and 31 March 2016; to Resolved, authorise the issue of sums out of the Consolidated That, during the year ending with 31 March 2016, a number Fund for the years ending with 31 March 2015 and not exceeding 108,430 all ranks be maintained for Army Service 31 March 2016; and to appropriate the supply authorised and that numbers in the Reserve Land Forces be authorised for by this Act for the years ending with 31 March 2014 and the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 31 March 2015. up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A 2015–16, HC 1054. —(Mel Stride.) Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time tomorrow, and to be printed (Bill 180).

ESTIMATES 2015-16 (AIR) VOTE A Business without Debate Resolved, That, during the year ending with 31 March 2016, a number not exceeding 35,870 all ranks be maintained for Air Force Service and that numbers in the Reserve Air Forces be authorised DELEGATED LEGISLATION for the purposes of Parts 1, 3, 4 and 5 of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 up to the maximum numbers set out in Votes A 2015–16, Mr Speaker: With the leave of the House, we shall HC 1054.—(Mel Stride.) take motions 10 to 18 together. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing ESTIMATES, EXCESSES, 2013–14 Order No. 118(6)), Resolved, That, for the year ending with 31 March 2014: CHILDCARE (1) resources, not exceeding £564,553,000, be authorised to That the draft Childcare Payments (Eligibility) Regulations make good excesses for use for current purposes as set out in 2015, which were laid before this House on 13 January, be Statement of Excesses 2013–14, HC 1021, and approved. (2) resources, not exceeding £153,000, be authorised to make good excesses for use for capital purposes as set out in Statement EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING of Excesses 2013–14, HC 1021.—(Mel Stride.) That the draft Industrial Training Levy (Engineering Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2015, which was laid before this SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES 2014–15 House on 21 January, be approved. Resolved, That the draft Industrial Training Levy (Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2015, which was laid before this House on That, for the year ending with 31 March 2015: 21 January, be approved. (1) the resources authorised for current purposes be reduced by £20,682,028,000, in accordance with HC 965, HC 977, HC 1019, and HC 1052, LOCAL GOVERNMENT (2) the resources authorised for use for capital purposes be That the Local Government (Transparency) (Descriptions of reduced by £6,371,917,000 as so set out, and Information) (England) Order 2015, dated 7 January 2015, a copy of which was laid before this House on 12 January, be approved. (3) a further sum, not exceeding £9,727,334,000 be granted to Her Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated Fund and applied for expenditure on the use of resources authorised CAPITAL GAINS TAX by Parliament.—(Mel Stride.) That the draft Community Amateur Sports Clubs Regulations 2015, which were laid before this House on 19 January, be ESTIMATES, VOTE ON ACCOUNT 2015–16 approved. Resolved, TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT That, for the year ending with 31 March 2016: That the draft National Minimum Wage Regulations 2015, (1) resources, not exceeding £222,417,912,000 be authorised, which were laid before this House on 27 January, be approved. on account, for use for current purposes as set out in HC 917, HC 966, HC 1020, HC 1048, HC 1051, and HC 1063, (2) resources, not exceeding £26,520,287,000, be authorised, on RATING AND EVALUATION account, for use for capital purposes as so set out, and That the draft Non-Domestic Rating (Levy and Safety Net) (3) a sum, not exceeding £219,606,746,000, be granted to Her (Amendment) Regulations 2015, which were laid before this Majesty to be issued by the Treasury out of the Consolidated House on 14 January, be approved. Fund, on account, and applied for expenditure on the use of That the draft Non-Domestic Rating (Shale Oil and Gas and resources authorised by Parliament.—(Mel Stride.) Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2015, which were laid Ordered, That a Bill be brought in upon the foregoing before this House on 23 January, be approved. Resolutions; That the Chairman of Ways and Means, Mr Chancellor TRANSPORT of the Exchequer, Danny Alexander, Mr , That the draft Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) and bring in the Bill. Order 2015, which was laid before this House on 14 January, be approved.—(Mel Stride.) SUPPLY AND APPROPRIATION (ANTICIPATION AND ADJUSTMENTS)BILL Presentation and First Reading SITTINGS OF THE HOUSE Andrea Leadsom accordingly presented a Bill to Ordered, authorise the use of resources for the years ending with That this House shall sit on Friday 20 March.—(Mel Stride.) 919 3 MARCH 2015 920

PETITION International Endangered Species Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House Closure of NatWest branch in Eccleshall do now adjourn.—(Mel Stride.)

7.3 pm 7.4 pm Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con): This petition relates Norman Baker (Lewes) (LD): I welcome the opportunity to the closure of the NatWest bank branch in Eccleshall to discuss this important matter. I note that the debate in my constituency. It is supported by over 700 signatures falls on world animal day, which is a fortuitous coincidence. and is accompanied by an Adjournment debate that I If the mysteries of your office had anything to do with had today in Westminster Hall on the same subject. it, Mr Speaker, I am very grateful. The petition reads as follows: This is the second debate on endangered species that I have introduced since becoming a Member of Parliament, The Petition of residents of the constituency of Stone in Staffordshire, the first having taken place on 1 May 2002. On that occasion, I told the House that, according to a figure Declares that residents of Eccleshall object to the closure of NatWest branch in Eccleshall and further that this is the only that I had been given by the Born Free Foundation, remaining bank branch in Eccleshall. there were 2,155 critically endangered species. I am The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons sorry to say that, according to the foundation, the urges the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills to figure has risen to 2,510 in the intervening years, and encourage NatWest to keep the Eccleshall branch open. that it includes 213 mammals, 213 birds, 174 reptiles And the Petitioners remain, etc. and 518 amphibians. Appallingly, 26% of known mammal species are now threatened with extinction, and the [P001440] number of wild animals on earth has halved in the last 40 years. I could continue to give figures indefinitely, but let me instead give one or two examples to support my case. In 1900 or thereabouts, there were 100,000 tigers in the wild, but there are now more tigers in United States zoos than there are in the wild. Central Africa has lost 64% of its elephants in just 10 years, and 50,000 were slaughtered in 2013 alone. In our oceans, 73 million sharks are being killed every year for their fins. All eight pangolin species are close to extinction, and 1 million have been traded over the last decade. Sadly, as they near extinction, the desire of hunters to find them increases rather than decreases. What is the reason for all that? It comes down to money. According to research carried out by the International Fund for Animal Welfare, the illegal trade in endangered species is worth $19 billion a year. That is a huge amount of money for people who are involved in criminal activity which, of course, can also be brutal and mercenary. When I was a Home Office Minister, I heard a story about an African country where rangers were trying to protect the animals. A helicopter landed, full of very well-armed individuals who simply mowed down all the rangers and all the animals. Apparently, that was not particularly unusual. The good news is that the coalition Government has been leading on this matter. I particularly congratulate the former Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), on the leadership that he has provided. I was very pleased to co-chair a section of the February 2014 conference which led to a London declaration and 41 countries signing up to a course of action. There will be a follow-up when the Botswana conference takes place later this month, and I pay tribute to Foreign Office officials for the work they are doing in preparing for that event. Let me also acknowledge the work that is being done by Border Force. When I was a Minister, I had an opportunity to observe its superb work at Heathrow in identifying those who trade in endangered species, and the expertise that it has developed. What must we do? I am pleased to say that the Government is already taking some action, but more is needed. First, we must reinforce the help that we are 921 International Endangered Species3 MARCH 2015 International Endangered Species 922 giving to developed countries to protect their animals. care; they are completely lacking in morality. All they That means giving them military help, financial help, are interested in is making money. This is not just about and help with economic planning, so that tourism, for protecting endangered species, vital thought that is; it is example, can provide them with a valuable alternative also about making sure we interrupt these people in income stream. At the London conference that I attended their activities, whatever they are dealing with at any last year, one of the key “asks” was for Land Rovers to particular time. enable rangers to travel around more quickly. I hope Finally, I ask the Minister to deal with the regulations that the Government has noted those points, which may on the control of trade in endangered species. I understand seem small, but which are very important when it comes that it is the Government’s intention to update the to helping developing countries. regulations, which I welcome, but I would be grateful if I welcome the £5 million that has been allocated by the Minister confirmed that we will be able to do so the Departments for Environment, Food and Rural before we reach purdah at the end of the month. It will Affairs and for International Development, but I hope be unfortunate if this matter rolls over. He knows as that, notwithstanding the current financial situation, well as I do that when a new Government take office—even the Government will be able to find more money to help if it is the same one—there are so many things to sort to deal with this important matter, and will encourage out that matters such as this can be shoved down the other countries to follow suit. agenda. This is a simple matter that I think the Government Secondly, we need to engage with end markets. In are committed to. If we are able to deal with it before we particular, we must try to persuade China to cut off the end this Parliament, that will be very helpful. I hope the demand for products such as ivory and rhino horn. Minister is able to deal with those three or four points in They are used in so-called medicinal solutions, but I his response to me. believe that they are medicinally worthless. I understand The level of extinctions is terrifying. We are in danger that rhino horn, for instance, is about as much use as a of losing species in our lifetime—I say that even as fingernail when taken in a attempt to cure a particular someone who is middle-aged. I understand that the condition. dinosaurs took 250,000 years to become extinct in the last mass extinction. We could lose the tiger and other Thirdly, we need to deal with transportation measures species in 25 years. I do not want to be a member of the and tackle how products are taken from A to B. I know human race—and I do not think anyone in this House the Leader of the House is dealing with this in a does either—who sees such species disappearing in our different capacity now. So there is a lot to do; I am lifetime. So I urge the Government, not simply to carry pleased the Government is doing a lot, but there is still on with what they are doing, which is welcome, but to more that can be done. redouble its efforts at Botswana and elsewhere to protect In particular I ask the UK Government to look at the these endangered species, engaging with our colleagues issue of online sales. We have to go further than we have in other countries to make sure we do all we can so that done on that. IFAW investigators have found a total of future generations can benefit from the wonderful species 33,000 wildlife and wildlife parts and products from around the world, just as we have in our lifetime. species listed in appendixes I and II of the convention on international trade in endangered species for sale in 7.13 pm over 9,000 ads online. We should be requiring online marketplaces to alert users to the legal position. I TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforEnvironment, should be grateful if the Minister responded to that Food and Rural Affairs (): I congratulate point and told me whether the Government are considering the right hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker) on that matter. securing this most appropriate debate as today is, as he pointed out, world wildlife day. Individuals and We also need to look at ensuring long-term funding organisations will be marking the day with events around for the national wildlife crime unit. I am happy to say the world, and I note that the right hon. Gentleman has that, partly when I was in office, the funding was been particularly busy highlighting the problems our extended to 2016, but it would be helpful if the Minister wildlife face with the release of his “Animal Countdown” could say—notwithstanding the fact that we cannot tie CD. Before this debate I went online to listen to it and it the hands of a future Parliament—that the intention is is not bad—it is pretty good and certainly does highlight to carry on funding that very important unit. this very important issue. On world wildlife day, we We must also reinstate a dedicated post for wildlife celebrate the intrinsic value of animals and plants, but cyber-crime. This appears to have vanished and is terribly we also highlight the severe threats that they face. Those important, particularly if we are going to deal with the threats range from habitat destruction and climate change to issue of online marketplaces. That may be just an the illegal wildlife trade and poaching, which is threatening unfortunate cut, but it is necessary to reinstate it. It may to decimate many species, as he pointed out. not even be about more money; it may simply be about Much of our ongoing effort to combat those threats a reallocation of individuals, but it is important that is undertaken through work in the relevant international that post is filled. conventions, including the convention on biological We must also confirm that the trade is covered by the diversity and the convention on international trade in serious and organised crime strategy. I believe it is, but it endangered species. The UK Government provide direct will be helpful if the Minister can confirm that the support to countries that are rich in biodiversity but Home Office strategy for serious and organised crime poor in financial resource. This includes work in our takes account of endangered species. I know from my overseas territories through the globally respected time in office that the people who deal in endangered Darwin initiative. More than 900 projects totalling around species may well be dealing in children one week or £110 million have been funded since 1992, supporting guns or drugs or something else. They do not really habitat and species from elephants to the mountain 923 International Endangered Species3 MARCH 2015 International Endangered Species 924

[George Eustice] in 2014. This means that we are now supporting 19 projects with a value of more than £5 million over the next four chicken, which is not actually a chicken but a type of years. frog native to the Caribbean islands of Dominica and There is also some evidence that other countries are Montserrat. The global tiger initiative has brought together starting to follow our lead. Over the past year, there all the tiger range states, as well as concerned Governments have been many positive examples of countries taking —including that of the UK—and academics and non- action to deliver the commitments made in the London governmental organisations involved in the global tiger declaration. As the right hon. Gentleman pointed out, recovery programme. The programme aims to double just last week China announced a 12-month immediate the number of tigers in the wild by 2022, and the UK ban on the importation of carved ivory, in support of has committed funding equivalent to $500,000 to support its efforts to protect elephants in Africa. His Royal that work. Highness the Duke of Cambridge is currently in China This year’s theme for world wildlife day is wildlife as part of his visit to the far east. He is undertaking crime. In recent years, it is the scourge of poaching that engagements there in support of his work to combat the has focused many minds as it threatens some of the illegal wildlife trade and support wildlife conservation. world’s most iconic species, including elephants, rhinos In addition, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State and tigers. There was wide recognition that more needed for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs raised the to be done and I am pleased to say that this Government issue of illegal wildlife trade during her recent visit to are a global leader in efforts by the international China at the beginning of this year. In Vietnam, the penal community to tackle this issue, as the right hon. Gentleman code is being amended to incorporate stronger and more acknowledged. The illegal wildlife trade not only threatens deterrent sanctions against environmental crimes, including the future existence of whole species; it devastates already the illegal trade in endangered species. vulnerable communities co-existing with these species, UK enforcement bodies play an active role in combating drives corruption and undermines our efforts to cut wildlife trafficking, and I commend the excellent work poverty. The right hon. Gentleman gave an example of of the national wildlife crime unit and the UK Border gunmen killing all the animals and all the rangers. Force. The right hon. Gentleman asked about the future Murder is being committed, and we should recognise funding of that unit. Like him, I have been passionate the fact that many of the rangers who are trying to fight about supporting it, and DEFRA certainly made funding the scourge of poaching are putting their lives at risk. available to it up until 2016. Having been in government, This illegal trade strikes at the very heart of our goals he will be familiar with the way in which funding works, for good governance, for the protection of national and and we will have to wait until the next spending review regional security, and for sustainable economic development. period before we can make specific commitments on it. I hope he will accept that in recognising the unit’s good The number of animals being poached is truly horrific. work, I am sending a strong signal in support of its At least 20,000 elephant poaching deaths were recorded efforts to tackle this difficult problem. Hon. Members in 2013. In 2014, the Government of South Africa may recall a case last year of an interception at Heathrow reported that 1,215 rhinoceroses were killed by poachers. of very rare San Salvador rock iguanas being smuggled That is a staggering increase, up from 13 killed in 2007. from the Bahamas. We were able to return 12 of these This wholesale slaughter is being driven by greed and critically endangered species to their natural habitat. by organised criminal syndicates. The price of ivory in Sadly, one of the iguanas died, but I am pleased to say China trebled between 2010 and 2014. that the criminals responsible received 12-month custodial sentences. The success of that operation was due to the Recognising the rapidly deteriorating situation, in excellent work carried out by the Border Force CITES February last year the Government hosted the London enforcement team based at Heathrow. conference on the illegal wildlife trade. High-level representatives from 41 countries and 10 international As the right hon. Gentleman pointed out, there is organisations came together to agree a set of urgent actions. more to be done on intercepting smuggling during The conference delivered an ambitious political declaration transportation. I therefore welcome the creation of an containing 25 commitments to take action on, for example, international taskforce to examine the role of the reducing demand for illegal wildlife products, ensuring transportation industry in the trafficking of illegal wildlife effective legal frameworks and deterrents across the products. His Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridge globe, strengthening law enforcement and supporting launched that in December 2014, and my right hon. sustainable livelihoods. Those 25 commitments included Friend the First Secretary of State and Leader of the Governments committing for the first time to renounce House—the right hon. Gentleman also mentioned him— the use of any products from species threatened with has agreed to chair that important taskforce. The taskforce, extinction, and Governments supporting the CITES including representatives from the global transport industry, commercial prohibition on international trade in elephant will develop industry-wide protocols for the sector to ivory until the survival of elephants in the wild is no strengthen measures it can take to help to eliminate this longer threatened by poaching. Governments also trafficking. Through the illegal wildlife trade challenge committed to treating poaching and trafficking as a fund, the Government are supporting work such as the serious organised crime in the same category as drugs, border point project, stopping illegal wildlife trade in arms and people trafficking. the horn of Africa. We are also providing funding to the Born Free Foundation to improve enforcement by sending In December last year, we announced funding for experts to border points to increase the knowledge and 14 projects as part of the illegal wildlife trade challenge skills of local officials. fund, worth almost £4 million. That will help developing The right hon. Gentleman finished his speech slightly countries to tackle the illegal wildlife trade, and it is sooner than I thought he would, so my officials have in addition to the five projects that we funded earlier been working overtime to ensure that I have answers to 925 International Endangered Species3 MARCH 2015 International Endangered Species 926 some of his questions. He asked about the serious and portfolio of my noble Friend Lord de Mauley, and organised crime strategy, and I can confirm that it does I will ask him to clarify the position on online crimes. cover the illegal wildlife trade. I have covered the point The Government are strongly committed to protecting about the national wildlife crime unit; we support the our world’s endangered species, and in particular to work it does, but, obviously, we are bound by the fact supporting the international community to tackle poaching that we have to await the next spending review before and the trafficking of wildlife. As the follow-up to the making any final commitments on that front. He also London conference, the Government of Botswana are asked for an update on any progress being made on hosting a second conference in Kasane. That conference updating the CITES regulations. The Government are is an opportunity to recognise the progress that has continuing to take forward the review of CITES regulations, been made globally on combating the illegal wildlife and consultation on proposed changes is taking place. trade, and importantly to maintain the priority and We recognise that the remaining time is limited within focus directed towards this issue achieved at the London this Parliament, but it remains this Government’s intention conference. to progress as far as we can the laying of that updated The UK has worked closely to support the Government legislation before the House. of Botswana in developing a range of ambitious outcomes. We expect Governments to commit to actions that build Norman Baker: Just before the Minister concludes, on the London declaration. That is likely to include will he say something about the issue of online trading strengthening work to reduce the demand and supply and what steps the Government can take to alert buyers sides for illegal wildlife products, and action to tackle to the potential illegality of their purchases? money laundering and other kinds of financial crime associated with the illegal wildlife trade. Those are the George Eustice: I have answered parliamentary questions sorts of action that we need to take. As an international on that matter, and my understanding is that that is community, we need to do everything possible to ensure something the National Crime Agency was doing. There that these magnificent and yet sadly—in some cases— used to be a designated person dealing with that matter. endangered species have all the protection that humanity The fact that that post no longer exists does not mean can offer. that the work is not being done. It simply means that Question put and agreed to. there is not a single designated person doing it. I am happy to write to the right hon. Gentleman about this 7.26 pm matter. As he will know, this specific issue is within the House adjourned.

227WH 3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 228WH

Does my hon. Friend agree that expanding the crucial Westminster Hall role of pharmacies to enable them to better care for patients with long-term conditions, help people to get the best from medicines and offer people the support Tuesday 3 March 2015 and advice they need to live independently and stay healthy would benefit not only patients but our local communities and our NHS? [GEORGE HOWARTH in the Chair]

Caroline Nokes: I absolutely agree with everything Local Pharmaceutical Services that my hon. Friend said. Small community pharmacies Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting often know their patients well, so they are at the forefront be now adjourned.—(.) of helping people to manage their conditions and know whether they are taking the right amount of medicine. Mr George Howarth (in the Chair): Before I call the They are often a useful place for people to go for an first speaker, it might be helpful if I point out that the informal chat about the conditions that affect them. time display has been the subject of a technology failure. Although it is telling the correct time, it is saying that Community pharmacies are at the heart of our the speech time is already 7 minutes 29 seconds. I say communities. They dispense advice as regularly as medicine, that not because I anticipate any pressure on time, but and they help people to make healthier lifestyle choices. to prevent anybody who is wondering how long they Pharmacy Voice, the organisation formed from the have been speaking from thinking it is 7 minutes 29 seconds three largest community pharmacy associations, strongly longer than they had anticipated. advocated the role of the community pharmacy as part of the solution to pressures on accident and emergency and GP services. It has encouraged people to think, 9.30 am “Pharmacy first”, and it has described community (Romsey and Southampton North) pharmacy teams as being perfectly placed to care for (Con): It is, as ever, a pleasure to serve under your patients with common winter ailments. We are coming chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I appreciate your pointing out of winter and into spring, but pharmaceutical services out the clock to me. I might have thought I had got are there all year round. They are just as adept at stuck in some sort of time warp and was forever on dealing with allergies, stings and hay fever as they are at 7 minutes 29 seconds. dealing with winter colds. I want to put on the record my thanks to Mr Speaker Last year, Pharmacy Voice identified that up to 8% of for granting this debate on the essential small pharmacy A and E visits could have been dealt with by a high local pharmaceutical services scheme, which has played street pharmacy, and approximately one fifth of GP and continues to play an important role in supporting visits could have been avoided by visiting the pharmacist. small community pharmacies up and down the country. Last year, NHS England reinforced the role of the Pharmacies are an essential part of our health care community pharmacy with the “Feeling under the system, and pharmacists play a key role in providing weather?” campaign. Many Ministers, including my quality health care. They are experts in medicines and hon. Friend the Minister, have emphasised in responses they use their clinical expertise and practical knowledge to written and oral questions that pharmacists have a to ensure that medicines are safely supplied to and used great role to play in helping people to manage long-term by the public. conditions and in helping people with their medication. Over the past few years, a much greater emphasis has None of the pharmacists I spoke to prior to this been placed on the role of the pharmacist. People have debate is sure when the role of the essential small been encouraged to use their local pharmacy as the first pharmacy was first recognised, but I can say with port of call for the minor ailments—coughs, colds and certainty that the essential small pharmacy in the village skin rashes—that afflict us all from time to time. Pharmacists of Wellow in my constituency has benefited from support, also play a significant role in programmes such as reflecting its small scale and relative remoteness from smoking cessation and emergency contraception, and other pharmacies, since it opened in 1990. The national they do great work with medicine reviews and in ensuring contract for such pharmacies was first introduced in that people use their medicines properly and effectively. 2006, and it has been extended a number of times since They play a huge role in the winter by providing flu jabs then. About 100 pharmacies receive support from the efficiently and cost effectively. If I recall correctly, my essential small pharmacy local pharmaceutical services hon. Friend the Minister supported Westminster flu scheme. Many are located in relatively remote rural day last year. Your interest in diabetes is well known, areas, but some operate in inner-city communities. Over Mr Howarth, and you will be aware of the important the years, they have provided services that have been role that pharmacists play in helping those with long-term relied upon by residents for their health care as well as conditions to manage their diseases. their dispensing needs. Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con): I congratulate my The current pharmaceutical needs assessment, published hon. Friend on securing this important debate. I am a in 2011, supports the continuation of the scheme. It huge supporter of the role of local pharmacies, and I states: am kept regularly updated about developments by a “ESPLPS pharmacies are used to ensure that access to number of Pendle pharmacists, including Mark Collins pharmaceutical services is achieved in certain locations in line of the Barkerhouse road pharmacy in Nelson and Matthew with the model of access to pharmacy services in ‘Healthy Horizons Leedam of Leedams’ pharmacy in Colne. in Primary Care’.” 229WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 230WH

[Caroline Nokes] gravely concerned that his pharmacy will not be able to continue providing these services, unless the local NHS Rural bus services are being reduced and it is increasingly area team decides to renew it, making specific arrangements difficult to access other pharmacies by public transport, under the local pharmaceutical services scheme. As yet, so small pharmacies can easily be described as essential he has not received a decision. to local communities. Certainly, that is true of Wellow Many other pharmacies are similarly affected, and I pharmacy. know that the Secretary of State for Education, my What is the problem, and why have I requested this right hon. Friend the Member for Loughborough (Nicky debate? These arrangements have existed for many years Morgan), who cannot be here today, has expressed and have provided modest support for small pharmacies, concerns about the pharmacy at Loughborough university where they are needed for patients, but where they and the one in the village of Wymeswold. I think that might not otherwise be economically viable. The national perfectly illustrates the diverse localities that these contract was introduced in 2006, and negotiations by pharmacies serve. It is not just small village pharmacies the Pharmaceutical Services Negotiating Committee under threat, but one serving a university campus, have seen it extended a number of times. But what is where young people are living away from home for the an essential small pharmacy? The criteria for eligibility first time and might be in a position to benefit most are that the pharmacy must be dispensing fewer than from the sage, experienced advice of a pharmacist for 26,400 items a year and must be more than 1 km from their front-line health care needs. the next nearest pharmacy. Their benefit to communities I completely understand the need for NHS England was deemed to be so great that a minimum level of to have devolved these contracts to local area teams, but remuneration was set. It is currently just under £80,000 the reality is that 31 March is now exactly four weeks a year. From the pharmacy global sum, a top-up payment away and for many pharmacists, there is still no certainty. would be permitted to ensure the continued viability of According to Pharmacy Voice, had NHS England renewed the pharmacy. However, NHS England confirmed last the contract, there would have been procurement and autumn that it is not possible to continue national tendering issues, so it was devolved to the areas, but we arrangements, leaving individual pharmacies to negotiate now face a problem where few have confidence that with their own NHS area teams. Support has been when we get to the end of this month, they will have a available from the PSNC, but many local pharmacists new contract. have found those negotiations difficult, time consuming and stressful. Although some have been successful, What are their options? Well, they are pretty stark. other area teams have not been able to provide certainty. They can close immediately, with no notice to the local community, because the contract will have expired and Sarah Newton (Truro and Falmouth) (Con): I am therefore no notice period is necessary. They can try to grateful to my hon. Friend for securing this important struggle on, returning to the pharmaceutical list but debate. She is describing the situation faced by an facing an immediate drop in income, which was previously essential small pharmacy in St Mawes in my constituency. agreed by all to be necessary to enable them to provide We had a public meeting on 5 February with NHS essential services. Or, and I am sure that this is the England local area teams, and hundreds of people option most will follow, they can continue to pursue the showed their support for that pharmacy, which is vital NHS area teams to prove their value and worth, when in serving the Roseland peninsula. We have not yet in fact that was already established a long while ago. heard from NHS England about whether that funding For small pharmacies, there is a real challenge in is secure, but the pharmacy applied for an LPS contract. viability. Using Wellow pharmacy as an example, it My hon. Friend is right to highlight the continuing currently issues in the region of 2,200 prescriptions a uncertainty that the situation is causing for pharmacists month. That is pretty close to the 2,400 prescriptions and the communities that they serve. a month that would trigger what is known as an Caroline Nokes: My hon. Friend has accurately outlined establishment payment, but it is not quite there. It has the situation in her constituency, which I am sure is worked hard to increase business, but in small communities mirrored across the country.I have received representations it is incredibly difficult to push numbers above that from community pharmacists, who have said that they threshold. My constituent Mr Sharma describes the are struggling with short time scales and no certainty additional prescriptions needed as a gulf that he has from their NHS area teams. been struggling for years to cross and has never yet achieved. David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): I think the I do not intend to delve into the issue of dispensing hon. Member for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton) GPs and what is often perceived as a conflict between may need to go to the pharmacy. Is the main problem pharmacies and those GPs who can dispense. That is for smaller pharmacies purely the finance, or is it the quite separate from the immediate time pressure faced facilities that they have? by these pharmacies, which have already been deemed Caroline Nokes: I thank the hon. Gentleman for that essential. What my constituent and the other pharmacists intervention. I will move on to finance, but it is not my who have contacted me have emphasised is the chasm contention that finance is the problem; we just require between the number of prescriptions that they routinely the local area teams to manage these contracts and get issue and the number that they would have to reach in them in place before the deadline of 31 March is reached. order to receive the establishment payment. For some, the gap is greater than others, which means that the As I was about to say, the contract for Wellow pharmacy, impact of losing the essential scheme will be felt differently in line with those for every essential small pharmacy by various pharmacies and that some might be forced across the country, will expire on 31 March. When the out of business faster than others. contract comes to an end, my constituent Mr Sharma is 231WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 232WH

Most members of the scheme are already doing patients and from borough, county and parish councils. significant work to make sure that they are as accessible Local residents are filling in surveys, outlining the services as possible to patients, including collection of prescriptions that they use at the pharmacy and identifying what from nearby surgeries and free delivery of medicines to impact closure would have on them personally. patients. As Mr Sharma puts it: It seems to me a relatively simple proposition: if these “This pharmacy is the only health care provider in the area of pharmacies are essential, and successive Governments any type, and the nearest other pharmacies are over five miles have agreed they are, what more can we do to make sure away in Romsey. If a patient was to need an over-the-counter they are retained? I have three things that I wish to ask medicine, require a medicine free of charge for a child, need of the Minister today. First, we need some clarity over support for self-care, or have a minor injury, there is a significant risk that without the availability of my pharmacy, they would what constitutes an essential small pharmacy. Some attend either the GP surgery in Romsey or the accident and 90 pharmacies historically receive payments under the emergency department of Southampton general hospital.” scheme. It would be helpful if they could point to an What he wants, in common with pharmacists from incredibly robust set of criteria, so that it would be easy across the country who have been in touch with me, is for the pharmacists then to identify to the area teams some certainty going forward. why they need the support that has been forthcoming for, in at least the case of Wellow, 25 years. As Has Modi, of Deanshanger in the constituency of Secondly, we need some encouragement to NHS England the Economic Secretary to the Treasury, my hon. Friend area teams to ensure that the outstanding contracts, the Member for South Northamptonshire (Andrea which are believed to be the majority of them, are Leadsom), has said: resolved before 31 March, so that pharmacy services “These contracts have been left to the discretion of the area are not simply forced to stop in these communities. I team of NHS England, to whom we are required to make a know that some are resolved and that others are working formal proposal.” very actively to make sure that they are in place before The primary care contracts manager of the area team is the contracts—and therefore the payments—expire, but adamant that the proposal will not be supported unless from my e-mail inbox, I am acutely aware of how many it can be proved “value for money”. Without the financial are simply in a state of limbo, having no idea whether support that that entails, this small pharmacy will their business will be viable 28 days from now. I would undoubtedly have to close because the normal funding welcome the Minister considering how best she might mechanisms are massively staked against small pharmacies. convey that urgency to NHS area teams. It does not even receive various basic fees—which can be substantial—that are available to average and larger Finally, we need closer investigation of what role pharmacies. This is why the ESPLPS arrangements NHS England could play in making sure, within the were put in place to safeguard small but essential pharmacies procurement rules, that pharmacies deemed over decades in the heart of the community. to be essential can continue to receive support, via the pharmacy global sum, so that there is no additional I appreciate that the current arrangements cannot cost to the NHS area teams and that the top-ups that continue, and that because the Secretary of State has area teams receive remain in place. However, it should devolved the contracting of primary care services to also be made very clear that those can only be used for NHS England, a further extension to the scheme is not pharmacy services and not distributed among the wider possible. He has already extended it once, from 2013 health care community. to 2015, and he cannot devolve responsibility for As I said at the beginning, we all appreciate the very commissioning and then interfere with how that same important role pharmacists play in our health care commissioning operates. Therefore, no extension will provision. They dispense advice and knowledge, as well be forthcoming and I accept that. as drugs. In those of our communities remote from As my hon. Friend the Member for Truro and Falmouth other health care providers, 100 or so of them have been (Sarah Newton) has said, many pharmacies are actively deemed to be essential—and we need to keep them. negotiating with their area teams, but concerns have been raised about the responses they are receiving, including time-limited support, and requirements to 9.49 am demonstrate that they are providing value for money. Kevin Barron (Rother Valley) (Lab): I think that this However, those area teams with an essential small pharmacy is the first time I have spoken when you are in the Chair, service are receiving a top-up on their allocations, so the Mr Howarth. I hope that I do not receive a yellow card funding is already there and is ongoing from the global from you, given the rumour that is going around at the pharmacy sum. Any amounts allocated have to be spent moment that the refereeing system from soccer will be on pharmacy services and cannot be redistributed to brought into this place. any other purpose. I do not have a constituency interest to declare inasmuch Effectively, if the essential small pharmacies are not as the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton supported, the moneys will simply go to other pharmacies North (Caroline Nokes) does. I thank her for securing in locations that have not been deemed to be of such an this debate, but I represent urban Rotherham, which is essential nature. Presumably, they might be redistributed a little different from some of the other constituencies to the larger existing pharmacies, many in high street represented here. My interest is that I chair the all-party locations, some distance from the village where there pharmacy group, as I have done for nearly five years in once was a supported, critically important pharmacy. this Parliament. I also have a personal interest in pharmacy Essential small pharmacies are working hard to ensure and its development. that their “pitch” to the area teams is as robust as I am sure that most of us know that pharmacies possible. Many, such as Wellow pharmacy, are garnering provide services that are vital to some patients. Without support from the local community, from appreciative financial support, we could lose them and patients 233WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 234WH

[Kevin Barron] as health checks and, here in London, seasonal influenza vaccination programmes and emergency hormonal would not be easily able to access other health services. contraception are all examples of how pharmacies help The current system ensures that the benefits of access to to reduce public risk and mitigate potential downstream pharmacy networks are spread widely. Furthermore, if costs for the NHS. small pharmacies have to close, local patients may find This winter, the all-party group looked deeply at it harder to access and receive advice on medicines and influenza vaccines. London is contracted to do that, support for healthy living services, such as stopping unlike many other parts of the country, which is another smoking or weight loss, that pharmacies have begun to area where we can take the burden off GP services. I offer. have no doubt that we all read the e-mails we get The lack of a pharmacy in many areas could lead to constantly from the British Medical Association about additional strain on other parts of the NHS. The hon. the pressure on GP services, and measures such as Lady mentioned GP surgeries and A and E. We all professional pharmacists giving influenza jabs seem to know about the pressure on A and E: I think nationally be common sense to most people. We should look at 50% of people who attend A and E get no treatment expanding the London contract. whatsoever. Some of them may not need treatment, but Committed, trained, competent pharmacists, pharmacy what they should get could be provided by a pharmacy technicians, dispensers and counter assistants are often or dentist, not by the local hospital. I think last year we the first point of contact for the public. More than had 76 people turn up at Rotherham’s A and E with 1.6 million visits a day are made to community pharmacies, toothache. Quite frankly, we need to start educating the which is more than to any other primary care provider. population a bit more about where they should go, but Many years ago, I saw the real strength of pharmacies. I clearly the pharmacy has a major role to play. took my family of young children to Spain. One of Two of the four organisations who support the all-party them fell ill and I said in the hotel, “We may need a pharmacy group are the PSNC and Pharmacy Voice, doctor,” and they said, “Well, just go up to the local which have been highlighted by the hon. Lady, and I pharmacist.” I have to say that I was impressed, not just have talked to them briefly about this issue. The all-party that they could understand my Yorkshire accent—or group has not looked at that in the past four years, but English, if that is what it is—but by the advice we got, we have looked at lots of issues and had many meetings with no need to go and bother anyone else. It was clear with both Ministers and civil servants about pharmacy that, years ago, other parts of Europe were using developments. Those organisations tell me that they pharmacists as the great pillars of strength that they certainly believe that sufficient funding is available in are. We now do that, but we should continue to do so. the NHS to support pharmacy, as has already been Indeed, that is one of that major reasons why I took said, but they are concerned about the responses that over the chair of the all-party group. some contractors have received locally. PSNC has pressed NHS England to give this matter At a time when the England’s high streets are under urgent attention, stressing the impact on contractor and siege, it is important to remember that pharmacies patients of any delay. As was pointed out well, there are employ local people and help to bring variety over and four weeks to go and there must be deep concern in above betting and charity shops—another vital issue—with areas where matters have not been settled that pharmacies a network of premises reaching out into communities, may go under. Those two organisations also believe that especially deprived ones. There is no evidence to show NHS England needs to consider and confirm its position that simply reducing the number of pharmacies will on each of the pharmacies urgently. The overwhelming improve care for patients. Central to the future development majority have strong cases for continued funding. of community pharmacies is supporting them to become hubs for health care in local communities, to be the first There are many reasons why a pharmacy is a vital port of call for health advice to help people to manage component of a community. Indeed, pharmacies lie at their health and well-being, both in self-limiting common the heart of a community. Community pharmacies are conditions and in supporting greater self-care in the the most accessible health care locations in the country: management of long-term conditions. they are the more than 11,500 places in England where people can go to get their prescriptions dispensed and We do have healthy living pharmacists up and down receive advice from experts on medicines and support to the land now. About 10% to 12% of pharmacists give help them make lifestyle choices. Many community people advice on lifestyle issues on a daily basis. I do pharmacies offer extended opening hours and weekend not want to encourage the Front-Bench Members to services. Unlike many GP services, they are more available start having a go at one another about the Health and to the population than ever before. Social Care Act 2012 that went through earlier in the In one of the last two meetings of the all-party group, Parliament. I did serve on the Bill Committee, and as we looked at the new medicine service that pharmacists the Minister has heard me say before, I supported some are deeply involved in to help patients to adjust, if need of the changes, particularly moving public health back be, to the medicines prescribed to them. Then, just last into the community. week, we had a round-table discussion with many There are two things in that Act that have not been organisations representing patients with mental health on people’s lips since. One was reducing health inequalities. problems on whether issues such as mental health should It is essential to have local pharmacists, working in come under that new service. That debate is ongoing, areas where we have known inequalities. The other one but it shows the potential for pharmacists to help was population health. Again, we do not seem to be people. talking about not looking just at people who are ill. I Community pharmacy also helps to prevent ill health have often said that the has been and protect the public. The provision of smoking cessation a national ill health service in reality: it responds to services, which has already been mentioned, as well people who are ill. 235WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 236WH

If we are to get public health right and improve 2. To submit a proposal to provide Local Pharmaceutical health in this century, we must move away from the idea Services (“LPS”) under Part 13 of the Regulations.” that the NHS is here as an ill health service and towards In effect, they can either receive standard pharmacy being proactive. Lifestyles are a bigger threat to public funding as set out in the drug tariff, which would result health than anything else. Population health is crucial in reduced incomes, or they can agree a new local and I see no better primary health care practitioners pharmaceutical service contract with the local area with better numerical access to the population than team. The report by NHS England neglects to mention local pharmacists. Although that is not about the potential a third possible outcome, which is that pharmacies may threat to pharmacies, which should be protected—quite be left with no option. Pharmacies on reduced incomes right, too, in the circumstances—that will be a growing may no longer be viable, and they would have to cease issue and pharmacies should become a proactive health to provide pharmaceutical services. The PSNC states service in years to come. To lose pharmacists through that pharmacies that face having to close down will not these changes, if they happen, will not help in any way have to give notice, because NHS England is aware of whatsoever. the termination of the contract, although it recommends I will be interested to hear what the Minister has to contacting local area teams. I am sure we all agree that say to some of the questions asked by the hon. Member that could have a devastating impact on local services. for Romsey and Southampton North, particularly on Many people rely on their local pharmacy, and I am the ticking clock, which stands at four weeks. If I was genuinely concerned that as a result of the plans, those running a business such as a pharmacy now and I had people could be left without the pharmaceutical services got as close to that time as that, I would be deeply that they need and rely on. worried, as I would be for the people who work in the Can the Minister outline any transitional arrangements pharmacy with me. that have been made to ensure that pharmacies are not forced to close unnecessarily? Are any contingency plans 9.59 am in place to cope with difficulties? I would be grateful if Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): It is a pleasure, as she could outline the discussions that the Government always, to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth, had with industry representatives when the plans were and not for the first time. I extend my congratulations drawn up. Notwithstanding any transitional issues, can to the hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton she provide an estimate of how many pharmacies may North (Caroline Nokes) on securing the debate. She be forced to close under the new arrangements? Pharmacies made an excellent case, and I could not disagree with a play a crucial role, especially in rural and remote word that she said. I thank my right hon. Friend the communities such as mine. Pharmacies often provide Member for Rother Valley (Kevin Barron) for his typical key services, and the average person will visit their insight. He will be reassured to know that I understood pharmacy more often than their family doctor—I certainly every single word. do. Such engagement is crucial in maintaining good With access to treatments under increasing pressure, health and well-being. My right hon. Friend the Member with more people waiting in A and E and with GP for Rother Valley spoke at length about the fact that appointments fully booked, it is right that we devote community pharmacies provide services such as smoking parliamentary time to discussing how we can increase cessation and dietary advice, and those services must be the role of local pharmacy services in our communities, maintained. so I commend the hon. Member for Romsey and I am sorry to disappoint my right hon. Friend, but I Southampton North on bringing the matter to the will mention the Health and Social Care Act 2012, House. If we were not four weeks away from a general because the Government’s NHS reorganisation has forced election and on a one-line Whip, I am sure that the intense pressure on all parts of our NHS. That can Chamber would be packed. It is a shame that we are clearly be seen, as I said at the outset, in the waiting discussing a matter of such importance to colleagues rooms of our GP surgeries and in our A and E departments. from all parts of the House in this environment, because According to the most recent GP patient survey, almost the subject is important to everybody who understands 6 million people could not get a GP appointment the and cares about what is happening in their local health last time they tried, and a further 7.8 million waited a economy. week or more. GPs are under severe strain, and pharmacies On 31 March 2015, as we have heard, the Local can play a critical role in alleviating that pressure and Pharmaceutical Services (Essential Small Pharmacies) expanding access. We also know from the GP patient Directions 2013 will be revoked. As a result, on that survey that some 1 million patients went to A and E date, the essential small pharmacies scheme will come because they could not get a GP appointment. to an end. In contract negotiations in 2004-05, the More than 1 million people per day—I think the Department of Health and the Pharmaceutical Services figure is 1.6 million—in England visit their local pharmacy, Negotiating Committee agreed that essential small and the average person will visit their pharmacy 14 times pharmacies should be contracted under the local a year. The GP patient survey has shown that GPs and pharmaceutical services provisions. In discussions, NHS A and E departments already struggle to cope with England has confirmed that it and the PSNC cannot patient numbers, so they would simply not be able to negotiate a new arrangement to replace the existing manage if pharmacies were forced to turn patients contracts. Instead, that must be done locally. An NHS away. The Government must make it clear that that will England document published in January this year states not happen under the new regime. that contractors have two options available to them: “1. To rely on any right of return to a Pharmaceutical List In a White Paper published in 2008, Labour made it maintained under Regulation 10 of the NHS (Pharmaceutical clear how pharmacies can deliver more services to ease and Local Pharmaceutical Services) Regulations 2013 (“the pressure on primary care. Pharmacies have a huge role Regulations”); or to play in our NHS, and the service simply cannot 237WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 238WH

[Mr Jamie Reed] number of occasions, and there is an awful lot more that we can do. I will talk a little bit about that wider afford for pharmacy not to play a key role. To address point, but I will also address the specifics of the essential pressures in primary care, the Government should small pharmacies scheme and the challenges that face implement measures such as improving links between those pharmacies. pharmacy and the NHS 111 service so that care is better People understandably appreciate the ability to access co-ordinated. Can the Minister explain what steps the pharmaceutical services near to where they live or work. Government are taking to utilise pharmacy better within Essential small pharmacies have, in the past, been valuable the NHS? in securing and maintaining the community access that With those points in mind, I would be grateful if the my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton Minister could outline how the Government will ensure North has so ably described. NHS England’s five-year that service coverage and access to pharmacies are not forward view makes it clear that our health services compromised by the upcoming changes. Further to must evolve to cope with not only increasing demand that, will she explain how the Government will ensure but the different patterns of people’s lifestyles. Every that pharmacies provide more services to alleviate pressure part of the health system is now considering how best on other parts of the system? That is a particular issue to engage with that challenge and how to allocate in remote, rural and isolated areas, as the hon. Member available resources most efficiently. for Romsey and Southampton North has said, where Although others have touched on it, it is worth there are no bus services worthy of the name and no revisiting the history of the essential small pharmacies other public transport. The hon. Lady made the case scheme. It has been in existence since the 1960s as a way exceptionally well. Isolated health economies are already of ensuring access to services in local communities for struggling and frequently achieving sub-optimal outcomes. patients and the public in locations where the viability Reducing access will only worsen those outcomes and of such pharmacies might have been uncertain. As increase acute service pressures. Many people rely on others have said, that is often in isolated rural areas, but those services, and they will be worried that they could not exclusively; sometimes such pharmacies are in new lose them. I hope that the Minister can address those residential developments, for example. The scheme operates concerns, and if my fears are misplaced, I hope that she against a backdrop that has changed a great deal since will explain why. its inception in the 1960s, and I will perhaps touch on I am reminded of the roll-out of NHS 111. That has the ways in which the world around the scheme has nothing to do with the Minister, because she was not in evolved. post at the time, and she knows that I hold her in the highest regard. However, I ask the Government not to The scheme was reviewed as part of the new community repeat the failings of the 111 roll-out when it comes to pharmacy contractual framework, and became known small pharmacies. Independent academic studies showed by yet another snappy health service title: the essential Ministers that 111 was not fit for purpose and not fit to small pharmacy local pharmaceutical services scheme. be rolled out. Members from all parts of the House The contracts were not designed to be permanent; they warned the Government that the 111 pilots had not were transitional arrangements. The shadow Minister worked. I warned the Government before the roll-out of mentioned transitional arrangements, and the scheme is NHS 111 that the scheme was not ready, but they coming to the close of quite a long transitional arrangement, ignored all the advice and rolled out a service that they as was flagged some years ago. Pharmacies admitted to knew was misfiring and that contributed to the worst A the new scheme, which replaced the previous scheme in and E performance in more than a decade. That April 2006, had to be nominated by the then local deterioration in patient care was avoidable. I urge the primary care trust and agreed by the Department of Minister not to repeat those mistakes, but to listen to, Health. As in the previous scheme, pharmacies were accommodate and respond to all the concerns raised required to meet certain conditions, the most important today. of which was that they had to dispense more than 6,000 and fewer than 26,400 prescription items per annum and be located more than 1 km from the nearest 10.7 am pharmacy by the nearest practical route available to the The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health public on foot. There is no central definition of “essential” (): It is a pleasure to serve under your but, broadly speaking, it is as I have described. It is a chairmanship, Mr Howarth. I congratulate colleagues case of considering the different schemes. Essentially, on their contributions, and I particularly congratulate community access is at the heart of the definition of my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton “essential.” The scheme closed, and no new pharmacies North (Caroline Nokes) on securing the debate and have been allowed to join since 2006. highlighting some of the challenges facing local pharmacies. The current scheme was intended to be temporary, For me, as the Minister with responsibility for public but it was extended in 2012 for a further two years. That health, the debate is also a welcome opportunity to was done in the context of a new market entry system place on record the wider contribution that pharmacies for pharmacies and the changes made to the NHS make. The right hon. Member for Rother Valley (Kevin under the Health and Social Care Act, which the Barron) singled out that contribution and emphasised shadow Minister mentioned, with the objective of enabling the potential of pharmacies. NHS England to consider the options and to give I hope that I can give some of the reassurances that adequate notice to affected pharmacist contractors. With the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Copeland four weeks to go, it is obviously a concern that we are (Mr Reed), sought. Overall, the picture for pharmacy is debating the fact that some pharmacies do not quite positive, and it has the potential to play a greater role. I know what is happening. I will address the efforts to have talked about and, I hope, championed that on a resolve that, but hopefully this debate, if nothing else, 239WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 240WH will be a good spur to everyone engaged in those important want those proposals to be given serious and urgent discussions and negotiations, so that we can ensure that consideration so that we can bring those discussions to they are brought to a sensible resolution. some sort of conclusion. The end date of the scheme, as my hon. Friend the I reassure members of the public that if their essential Member for Romsey and Southampton North mentioned, small pharmacy closes, they will still have access. I have is 31 March 2015, which means that affected pharmacies given the assurance that many pharmacies will not have had two years to prepare for the changes since the close, but people nevertheless want to know that they scheme was extended. I stress that the ending of the will still have access. I have mentioned some of the ways scheme does not mean that affected pharmacies must in which people now have greater choice than in 2006, close. It is obviously up to the individual contractor and NHS England has an absolute responsibility to whether they wish to return to the pharmaceutical list ensure that communities can continue to access appropriate and come under the terms of the community pharmacy services and consider alternative local provision. That contractual framework or submit a proposal to provide provision might be through new contractors, or through local pharmaceutical services. Many have done that, a service that is accessible as part of a larger retail offer and I will touch on the numbers in a moment. somewhere nearby. That has become more popular in I appreciate that it has been a difficult time for recent years, and it allows people to combine their contractors, such as the ones described by my hon. weekly shop with a visit to the pharmacy, allowing Friends the Members for Romsey and Southampton them to take advantage of public health work through North and for Truro and Falmouth (Sarah Newton), those outlets. because small businesses are often concerned with serving The closing of the scheme does not mean that affected their communities and perhaps have a bit less time for pharmacies have to close; quite the opposite. The two protracted contractual negotiations. I hope and expect available options have already been outlined. Pharmacies that they will receive appropriate support from local can return to providing NHS pharmaceutical services NHS teams. I give an assurance that, if a change in under the contractual framework and no longer receive provision is needed, NHS England’s local area teams the top-up payment, which I accept might be difficult will work, and are working, with individual providers, for some, particularly very small businesses. Alternatively, but my hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and pharmacies can make a proposal, and those proposals Southampton North has highlighted where she thinks are now under consideration and being worked on. I that work needs a bit more energy to ensure that people cannot comment specifically on the case in West Wellow in her community can continue to access services in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for conveniently. Romsey and Southampton North, but the area team Of course, there are new ways of delivering dispensing will know about this debate; we will follow up to ensure services. We have internet pharmacies, and many pharmacies that the area team has a record of it and understands now offer delivery services to patients—members of my that Members were sufficiently concerned about the family have taken advantage of such services. People matter to bring it to the House’s attention today. who are less mobile can have medicines delivered straight More broadly, on the subject of how much community to their door, and I hope it reassures the House to know pharmacies have changed since 2005-06, we now see that 99% of the population can reach a pharmacy pharmacies as places to go for much more than just within 20 minutes by car, and that 96% of people can do getting a prescription dispensed and getting advice on so by walking or using public transport. medicines. Pharmacies are a valuable, and sometimes At the end of March 2014, there were 11,647 pharmacies the most accessible, health resource in a local community. in England providing NHS services, which is 18% more We have introduced new revenue streams, such as medicines than in March 2006. That is a success story for pharmacies use reviews and the new medicine service, which contractors and not the opposite; it is definitely a growing story, can choose to provide to their local population, so there and rightly so, for exactly the reasons that the right hon. are other routes for local pharmacies. Member for Rother Valley highlighted. Pharmacies have Clearly, with my public health responsibilities, I am an essential role in supporting our public health system, happy to take this opportunity to highlight the relevance as well as our NHS. of community pharmacies to providing public health Some 226 pharmacies were accepted on to the ESPLPS services. The NHS document on its long-term sustainability, pilot scheme in 2006 and, of those, 73 are still eligible to the five-year forward view, calls on the nation to get receive payments, which is less than 1% of pharmacies serious about public health as one way in which we can overall. Of those 73, 16 have reached an agreement or avoid spending billions of pounds on avoidable illness. have a solution at a very advanced stage, and 47 have Pharmacies have an important role to play. I have proposals under consideration, so the balance of around visited pharmacies that are rolling out pre-diabetes 10 are still working closely with area teams, which I checks and other such things. It makes no sense for us, hope gives Members at least some reassurance that the as a nation, to gear up to spend money to serve 4.5 million scale of the challenge is not huge. The challenge is people with type 2 diabetes when we could do valuable important and serious for those who have not resolved preventive work to stop millions of them getting type 2 the situation, and I urge area teams to work closely and diabetes in the first place. Even if people can live with give maximum support, but I reassure the House that type 2 diabetes for a long time, we want people to live this is not a large-scale problem across the country; it is not only long lives but well lives. Living a long time with a localised problem. None the less, it is important, a number of co-morbidities is not a great quality of life, particularly for local communities. People are probably so there are all sorts of reasons for encouraging pharmacies most concerned about pharmacies where proposals are to be on the front line of preventing illness and helping under consideration, because the clock is ticking. We people to avoid such conditions. 241WH Local Pharmaceutical Services3 MARCH 2015 Local Pharmaceutical Services 242WH

[Jane Ellison] which they can sometimes be the unsung heroes. I applaud how they have supported and continue to As the right hon. Member for Rother Valley mentioned, support our public health ambitions. The five-year forward there are now more than 1,000 healthy living pharmacies view had a whole chapter on prevention. Getting serious across the country, and there are many more in the about public health is at the heart of the challenge of pipeline. Those pharmacies utilise the skills of the whole sustainability for our much-valued and much-loved NHS. team—not just the pharmacist, but those trained as We need pharmacies to play their part. Estimates suggest, health champions. I am conscious that the individuals as I think the shadow Minister mentioned, that 18% of who work in a pharmacy may be more approachable to GP consultations for common and minor ailments and many people, may understand the local community about 8% of accident and emergency attendances could particularly well and may have insights to bring. I saw be dealt with by pharmacists, which emphasises their some good examples of that when I went around importance. constituencies last Easter talking to pharmacists who I appreciate the concerns that have been raised about knew their communities particularly well, many having this scheme. I hope that I have given the House some grown up in them. They knew the individuals there and reassurance that although it is clearly a challenge for the knew how to target leaders in the community. I am a pharmacy in the constituency of my hon. Friend the great fan of pharmacists and their role in all public Member for Romsey and Southampton North and health promotion work. some others, we have now reduced the number of More than 9,000 community pharmacies in England pharmacies with unresolved issues to a very small number. supported the smoke-free January campaign last month, However, it is critical in these last few weeks before the giving out quit cards, and engaging with smokers in transitional scheme expires that we resolve the remaining person, through their digital presence and on social issues in a way that gives people a chance to plan for the media. More than 6,500 have signed up to support no future. Those essential small pharmacies have played an smoking day later this month, and that number continues important role in the past, and NHS England area to grow. It is valuable work. Pharmacies have also teams are ready to work with, and I hope are working delivered a large part of this year’s winter flu immunisation with, any contractor who wants to continue providing a programme; more than 105,000 vaccinations have been pharmacy service to their community. I will encourage provided through that route in London alone. Again, as them to continue to engage, to ensure that we can reach the shadow Minister said, pharmacies are an important as many outcomes as possible, particularly for the benefit way to relieve pressure on other parts of the system, and of local communities, which have been so ably championed they are recompensed for those services. by my hon. Friend. This debate has provided us with a valuable chance to put on record what tangible value pharmacies bring 10.22 am to our society, and particularly to our health system, of Sitting suspended. 243WH 3 MARCH 2015 Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) 244WH

Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) My purpose today is to examine the adequacy of the current legislative framework as it relates to fire safety. I do so not only given my constituency interest, but in my 11 am role as chairman of the all-party group on insurance Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): May I begin and financial services, which has held a number of by saying what a pleasure it is to be able to start this meetings this Parliament on the issue of fire safety. I debate under your chairmanship, Mr Howarth? I know will touch on some of the other issues later in the that it is usual and traditional to say that, but—as I just debate, but the primary concern that has been expressed reminded you before we started—despite our first meeting by Sophie’s parents, as well as by many professionals more than 30 years ago in Cardiff, this is the first who deal with fire safety, is the lack of clarity about opportunity I have had to start a debate under your who is accountable for the implementation of fire chairmanship in Westminster Hall, albeit in my last safety laws. In large-scale developments, who has that month as a Member of Parliament. It is a great pleasure responsibility? Is it the owner, the property management to have you in the Chair. company, the residents’ association or the individual tenant? Responsibilities sometimes seem to overlap to Sophie Rosser was brought up in Cardiff, and her such an extent that each party comes to believe that it is parents are my constituents. She was a bright and someone else’s job to ensure that fire safety rules are intelligent young lady with everything to live for. In her followed. early 20s, she relocated to London to pursue a career in architecture and interior design. She lived with her Three million new fire doors are bought and installed boyfriend at Meridian Place, an upscale Docklands every year in this country. They are not just doors, but property that had been redeveloped, as so many have sophisticated pieces of engineering that are fundamental been over the past 20 years in that part of London. to fire safety strategy in buildings. Critically, they protect escape routes in communal areas. If they are to save Sophie came to national prominence in August 2012 lives, they must work correctly and be regularly inspected when she faced the awful dilemma that most people will and tested. However, in a recent survey by fire risk have thought about at some time in their lives. Faced assessors, it was found that no fewer than 80% of escape with a building that was ablaze, would we risk our life to routes in buildings were obstructed—that is four fifths rescue a loved one? We are all well aware of the sound of all escape routes. Some 65% of fire doors, which are advice that we should follow, which is to act calmly and fitted with a spring to ensure that they close, were leave everything to the professionals, but at some time wedged open, and 85% had their self-closing mechanism in our lives we must all have thought about how we disconnected. People see such examples every day; the might react were we faced with such awful circumstances. surveys show that the failings are the norm. In fact, Sophie returned to her home and knew that her boyfriend there cannot be one of us who has not seen many such was still in the building. She made the immediate decision instances in public buildings, even in the Palace of to try to enter and save him—a decision that cost her Westminster—I have seen such instances here. It is an her life. offence to have a fire door wedged open, but who Fireman Carter of the London fire brigade was attending checks or enforces that? When failings are found, the his first actual fire at Meridian Place. He honestly lines of accountability are not clear enough. informed Sophie’s inquest that he was frightened when Sophie’s father, Julian Rosser, fronted this year’s fire he entered the building, even though he was a fully door safety week, an awareness campaign that is all trained fireman with all the correct safety equipment, about highlighting the issues and encouraging everyone breathing apparatus and so on. He told the coroner that to check the condition of fire doors and to report faults. he was frightened. He was on his hands and knees, The campaign is actually part of the Government’s own groping across the fourth floor of the building, when he communication strategy on the matter—Sophie’s father found Sophie. She had been overcome by smoke and was fronting a Government campaign, but he does not had clearly been disorientated before losing consciousness. think that an awareness campaign goes far enough, or Although she was removed from the building, she died that such campaigns are ever likely to be enough, given shortly afterwards. the massive risks that we face every day from fire safety Sophie’s inquest was held in September last year. The being compromised in the way that I have outlined. It is coroner, Mary Hassell, highlighted a number of fire particularly troubling that new research published as safety issues at Meridian Place: the fire alarm had not part of fire door safety week showed that half of those been working for two years; there were issues with the surveyed who had legal responsibility for fire safety did self-closing fire doors; the building had been constructed not know that they had that responsibility or were with inadequate smoke ventilation shafts; and there had unclear about what their responsibilities were. been only one fire risk assessment since 1997. Nevertheless, I want to make it clear to the Minister that the purpose In 2009, a major fire broke out at Lakanal House, a of today’s debate is to highlight general issues of fire tower block in Camberwell in London. Six people lost safety that are of relevance given the circumstances of their lives. Ten years earlier, the local council had scheduled Sophie’s death. It is particularly important that I reiterate the building for demolition because of what were believed that because the London fire brigade is continuing its to be fire risks, but that did not happen. Following the investigations regarding the tragedy and has not yet fire, the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority concluded as to whether any charges might be raised. set up the Lakanal House working group to consider For the avoidance of any confusion, I do not expect the the fire safety issues that arose from the tragedy. It Minister to comment on the specifics of Sophie’s case. I formally completed its work last year. have said as much as I intend to say about that, but it The basis of fire safety management is the Regulatory sets the background and context for the fire safety Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, which radically changed issues that I want to raise. the previous regulatory landscape. Following the receipt 245WH Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser)3 MARCH 2015 Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) 246WH

[Jonathan Evans] “There is clear evidence that sprinklers are effective at rapidly suppressing fires; in buildings fully protected by sprinklers they of the report from the Lakanal House working group, control 99 per cent of fires. the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority Sprinklers also greatly improve the safety of firefighters…they reached these conclusions: are effective in reducing the risks of flashover and backdraft conditions. “Nearly 10 years after the introduction of the…Fire LFB believes there are opportunities for developers and building Safety…Order…the Authority wishes to explore whether the owners to save money, save property and protect the lives”, regime is achieving all that is desirable. The Government has already undertaken some of this work in relation to business, as by putting sprinklers into more buildings, not least part of its wider deregulation and burden reduction strategy, but because sprinklers are nowhere near the extent of that work— “as expensive as people think”. according to the planning authority— Yet again, however, sprinklers are put forward as an “was limited. awareness issue, rather than as a legislative one, and Specifically, the Authority is concerned that there are issues that is a matter of some concern. about: complexity; understanding among responsible persons”— I want to draw the attention of the House to what my in fact, the evidence that I have referred to highlights constituents and many others regard as a gap in the and endorses that concern. The authority also believed existing legislation and practice. Are responsibilities that there were and roles clear? Are they understood? Do they get discharged in practice? Such questions were posed to “contradictions or gaps in the total legislative framework…and the London fire brigade by LFEPA when it set up the that the system of devolved managerial and democratic oversight of fire safety protection activities is unsupported by common review. The specific answer came in paragraph 28 of the methodologies or performance measures. There are also issues fire professionals’ response: about how well guidance is informing responsible persons”. “In general terms, there must be some doubt that the answer to these questions is yes and the ability of the Brigade to comment Accordingly, the planning authority has commissioned on how well others are doing their job is constrained by the a study of the legislative framework, which is now absence of the necessary tools, information and locus. As set out under way. The study will consider, among other things, above, the legislative framework remains overlapping and complicated, the general background to and the principles underpinning some of it no doubt necessarily so (buildings like The Shard are fire safety legislation, including who has responsibility not the product of simplicity)”— for fire safety and, in particular, the impact in our a rather chilling line— capital city. My constituents want clearer definitions of “but with worrying potential implications. It would not be against who is responsible for fire safety in multi-occupancy the grain of experience to conclude that these factors mitigate lettings, and legislation to require regular fire risk against success.” assessments by properly certified people. That is not an opinionated individual, but a professional, I indicated earlier that our all-party group has been reporting to the London planning authority for the fire looking at general fire safety issues as well. One of the services. That paragraph sets out the challenge not only matters to cause me deep concern was learning from for all of us, but for Government. My constituents hope many fire authorities that fire services do not respond to that that challenge is one that the Government will some 80% of fire alarms that go off in urban areas embrace. every day. The reason for that is that the fire services have come to believe that such alarms are most likely to be false ones. In fact, the fire brigade comes out when it 11.16 am has an individual physical report of a fire in addition to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for receiving information about a fire alarm going off. Communities and Local Government (Stephen Williams): Without any such report, however, it does not follow I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff that the fire brigade will attend. The all-party group North (Jonathan Evans) on securing the debate on was astounded to hear that information. behalf of the family of his deceased constituent Sophie We also heard from the Glass and Glazing Federation Rosser, and on the clear way in which he put forward his about its concern with a lot of the improvements in views. building specifications, in particular as they apply to My hon. Friend said at the outset that he would talk glass in buildings. I do not need to explain quite how about the generalities of fire safety, because an investigation critical that can be, especially given how glass can burst by the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority and, as a result, let air into a building to feed a fire. The remains ongoing, and I will have to respond in kind by federation wrote to me when it knew that the debate dealing with the building regulations and other requirements was to be held today. It referred to its previous meeting in force. I cannot comment specifically on the sad case with the all-party group and drew attention to that has led to our discussion this morning. “a general issue which should be of overall concern—that is Never has the clear fire safety advice to get out, stay insufficient attention given to provisions in the fabric of our out and call 999 rung so true as in that case. Yet we must buildings to protect against fire, which severely threatens levels of accept that with the best will in the world there is always fire safety in practice (especially we note, built-in resistance the risk that individuals will not heed the advice. They against fire and its effects).” will not always put their own safety above their concern I also want to draw attention to the recent argument for others. In Sophie’s case, she simply wanted to ensure from the deputy commissioner of the London fire brigade that her fiancé was safe. I am sure that we can all for sprinklers to be fitted into more buildings. I have a understand that primary instinct to protect those whom copy of a briefing note that he produced for the London we love, even, on occasion, in the extreme circumstances planning authority only last year: that faced Sophie on that tragic night. 247WH Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser)3 MARCH 2015 Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) 248WH

The Government’s long-standing and well recognised the risk from fire and to ensure appropriate fire precautions Fire Kills campaign, which is run in partnership with are in place and maintained in good working order. For the fire and rescue authorities, works hard each year to new buildings, the building regulations in force at the provide the public with advice and information on how time of construction dictate the range of fire safety best to protect themselves and their family and friends measures that need to be installed and managed to from the risk of fire in the home through sensible safety afford an acceptable level of life safety in the event of a precautions. We believe firmly that fire prevention is fire. For blocks of flats, the regulations require that always better than cure. walls, ceiling and doors be built of fire-resisting construction Fire Kills provides regular fire prevention advice and materials that ensure that, in most cases, a fire should reminders to householders, irrespective of tenure. Advice not spread from the room in which it has started. given includes: to install smoke alarms on every level of Following the Lakanal house fire, to which my hon. the home and to test them regularly to ensure that they Friend referred, the coroner called on the Government are working; to carry out a bedtime check, including to simplify the guidance in approved document B of the shutting doors; never to smoke in bed and to ensure building regulations. My Department’s Secretary of that cigarettes are put out properly; never to leave State committed to a review, which will deliver a revised cooking or candles unattended; and to check electrical document in 2016-17; the intention is to simplify the equipment and never use faulty products or appliances. guidance where possible and update and revise the The campaign also provides clear advice on what technical content at the same time. My hon. Friend action to take should householders be unfortunate enough mentioned sprinklers. They are recognised as a highly to experience a fire in their home. They and their family effective fire protection measure. It is too early to say should use a planned and practised escape route and, to how they will fit into the revised approved document, repeat the exhortation, they should get out, stay out but he should rest assured that the potential benefits and call 999. Thankfully, in most cases such messages, will not be ignored. repeated regularly through a variety of channels, have proved highly effective. Householders are increasingly Jonathan Evans: My hon. Friend is rightly setting out safe from the risk of fire in the home and its tragic the legislative framework. Will he think for a moment consequences: over the past decade the number of fire about the disconnect between the structure of the legislation incidents has fallen by 64%, and the number of deaths and what surveys tell us about whether the legislation is in the home by 36%. actually having an effect? I was astonished by the statistics Of course, we can never be complacent. I understand I have shared with hon. Members today. Is he similarly why my hon. Friend has brought forward this debate. concerned? We must always be vigilant to make sure that advice, guidance and requirements are up to date. It is obviously Stephen Williams: I was indeed disturbed by the right, especially given the distressing circumstances, survey findings to which my hon. Friend referred. When that we expect that someone should be held to account I was being briefed for the debate this morning, the for any fire safety failings that may have led to Sophie’s requirement that doors to flats be fitted with self-closing death or exposed other residents to an unacceptable devices was made clear to me. He mentioned that quite level of risk. Fire and its causes, however, are always often those devices are disconnected or the doors are complex issues. Investigating what went wrong in a propped open; although it is dangerous to rely on particular circumstance is of necessity a time-consuming personal observation or anecdote when debating or and detailed process. It is vital that such work is done, making policy—policy should be evidence-based—I have both to ensure that lessons are learned, so that we seen cases of that myself. That reinforces the need to prevent similar tragedies, and, crucially, to ensure that re-emphasise the Fire Kills campaign every year. We those responsible for any fire safety failures or shortcomings normally do so as a Department when the clocks change; identified in an investigation are held to account. of course, that will be happening very soon, so perhaps There can be no doubt that in the case of residential he and I can do our level best to circulate that fire safety blocks of flats there is robust legislation in place to information to our constituents—they will still be our ensure that landlords, freeholders and others who exercise constituents when the clocks go forward—in Cardiff a degree of control over the management or maintenance North and Bristol West. of a building take action to remove the risk of fire or As we were just discussing, the front door of a flat is reduce it to the lowest level that is reasonable. The clearly critical to the safety of the communal parts, as it principal means of regulation and control for residential will protect the escape route from filling with smoke properties, including those in blocks of flats, is the should there be a fire in a flat. The building regulations Housing Act 2004. Owners—whether landlords or require fire-resisting doors to be fitted with self-closing freeholders—and housing authorities are responsible devices, as I have mentioned. for ensuring the safety of the whole building; under the The Government fully support the British Woodworking housing health and safety rating system, that includes Federation’s annual campaign to raise public awareness fire safety. Local housing authorities have a clear of the importance of fire doors. The campaign draws responsibility to keep the condition of all housing in attention to issues of poor installation and maintenance, their area under review, and to take action to ensure and encourages building owners and users to check that hazards to residents—whether in their flats or in their self-closing doors and, where necessary, take action the communal parts of a building—are removed or so that those that are not satisfactory can be brought reduced to an acceptable level. back into good working order. The Minister with Under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order responsibility for fire, my hon. Friend the Member for 2005, all those responsible for workplaces and buildings North (), was pleased to which the public have access are required to assess to add her voice in support of the federation’s efforts to 249WH Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) 3 MARCH 2015 250WH

[Stephen Williams] County Durham Plan encourage owners and occupiers to check that their fire [MRS ANNE MAIN in the Chair] doors are in good working order. That campaign should go some way to press home the message that the 2.30 pm maintenance of fire precautions is a duty that should Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab): It is a pleasure to not be ignored. debate this important issue under your chairmanship, I have heard concerns about the overlap between the Mrs Main. provisions on residential buildings in the Housing Act At the outset, I want to inform the Minister of the and in the fire safety order, but the principle of safety two main questions I want to ask this afternoon so she lies at the heart of both. I am pleased to note that in has plenty of time to think about her response. First, 2011 the Government provided the Local Government the planning inspector’s interim report into the County Association with the funding it needed to bring together Durham plan states that one of the council’s options is housing providers, including the National Landlords to suspend further deliberation of the plan for up to six Association, and housing and fire enforcing authorities months so the fundamental issues in the report can be to develop specific detailed guidance to help those with resolved in a positive and constructive manner. Will the fire safety responsibilities in blocks of flats ensure the Minister work with Durham county council to find a safety of residents and comply with their regulatory solution? It is in the Government’s interest to do so, requirements. That guidance discusses at length the because if a resolution cannot be found, the Treasury’s importance of maintaining fire doors and offers advice plans for economic growth in the region and in County on how that can be done. The LGA reviewed it in 2013 Durham will be undermined. and concluded that it remains fit for purpose, although Secondly, last Friday, the Chancellor of the Exchequer I am sure hon. Members would acknowledge that guidance said that he wants 50,000 jobs to be created in the is all very well; the issue here is the observance of such north-east of England by 2020. The North East local guidance. enterprise partnership envisages the creation of 100,000 In residential buildings, where there is no employer, jobs in the north-east by 2024-25. The County Durham regulatory fire safety responsibilities may be divided plan lays down a firm foundation for the creation of between the building owner and other organisations 30,000 jobs in the county by 2030, so if the plan were such as a resident management company or a managing followed 10,000 additional jobs could be created by agent with day-to-day management and maintenance 2020, which is 20% of the Chancellor’s target. The responsibilities. The enforcing authorities—in the case planning inspector said that the figure of 30,000 is outlined by my hon. Friend, the London Fire and unachievable, but where does that leave the job growth Emergency Planning Authority and the local borough, plans of the Government and the LEP, which are based Tower Hamlets—must be given sufficient time to investigate on the same formula? Durham county council’s plans— and unpick the extent of responsibilities to determine wrongly, in my view—have been called into question. whether and against whom any further action should be The interim report supports the plan’s population taken. We will study the results of the investigation and job growth projections, about which I will say a few carefully. Under the fire safety order, the enforcing things. The inspector endorses the council’s population authorities have wide powers to take action against the projections, but questions the assumptions of the forecast. full range of organisations whose actions or failures There is a difference between a projection and a forecast. may have contributed to compliance failures. Let us be A population projection establishes a baseline position under no illusion: investigating is, by necessity, a complex for population growth and assumes that past trends will and time-consuming process. be carried forward into the future. A population forecast My hon. Friend has outlined a tragic case that illustrates points to an alternative future based on a series of policy the need for constant vigilance in this area. Whether changes. The County Durham plan offers a series of Ministers or Back Benchers, it is our duty constantly to policy changes. Durham county council’s population remind our constituents that guidance and regulation is forecast was based on achieving economic success through there. We believe that it is fit for purpose, but if it is not two measures: first, increasing participation within the followed, tragic consequences can result. Sadly, the economy and achieving an employment rate of 73% in tragedy he has outlined may have been the result of County Durham; and, secondly, increasing the size of such a failure to follow guidance and regulations. We the economy by 30,000 jobs in County Durham, 23,000 will have to wait for the results of the investigation and of which will be located in the county and 7,000 of learn any lessons that can be learned when the investigation which will be held by people who live in the county but is complete. cross the border to work elsewhere in the region. The inspector endorsed the county council’s approach 11.28 am to the population projection in his interim report. He accepted the council’s methodology for developing Sitting suspended. population projections in paragraphs 29 and 30, and he accepted the council’s projection in paragraph 31, noting the trend-based outcome. Here, the inspector accepted the council’s projection and methodology as a basis for developing objectively assessed need for housing. He supported only the population modelling undertaken by Durham county council and rejected other approaches. In paragraph 43, he states: “I have considered the alternative models and approaches to calculating OAN”— 251WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 252WH objectively assessed need— employment land. It wants a spatial strategy that seeks “put forward by other parties. These produce either significantly to fulfil the ambition of a thriving Durham city. Economic lower or higher estimates which I consider to be less robust than success will be delivered through the creation of jobs. the work undertaken by the Council. For example, the FDGB’s”— Let me give some background about why this issue is the Friends of Durham Green Belt— so fundamental to the people of County Durham and “proposals do not use a recognised methodology whilst the house to industry in the area. Following the local government builders use unrealistic data inputs and assumptions.” review several years ago, Durham county council made The inspector questioned the plan’s economic aspirations improving the economy its top priority. The local and concluded that there will be a low population in the government review was a once-in-a-generation opportunity county. He ultimately disagreed with Durham county to bring together all partners to adopt an economic council’s economic aspirations, which is why he proposed strategy to reverse Durham’s economic decline. The a lower number of houses. county has suffered from a decline in traditional industries, and the resulting increase in unemployment and lower Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): My hon. skilled jobs has caused our brightest and best to move Friend is talking about the growth of the economy in away to find economic prosperity elsewhere. To address County Durham, which is very important. On a point that problem, the unitary council and its partners made related to the lack of extra housing, the existing population the economy their top priority from day one. The is getting older and less economically active, so it will council’s overarching priority is to improve the economic not only have less economic impact on Durham but will performance of County Durham. Through the County require more services from the health service and local Durham partnership and the sustainable community government. strategy, it has recognised that better opportunities for employment mean better health and more choice in Phil Wilson: I agree. My hon. Friend anticipates my housing. To achieve that, it has recognised that a significant next point, which is about job growth in the area. It is step change will be required. In the absence of economic about not only attaining a 73% activity rate among investment, the size of the county’s working-age population people of working age, because if that continues and will decline over the next 20 years, which is not in line there is no jobs growth, the local economy will ultimately with either the County Durham plan or the north-east’s stagnate. aspirations. The focus on a thriving economy is not at The inspector accepts the council’s methodology for the expense of other matters; indeed, developing a developing population projections. The council wants thriving economy will address many of the social issues to increase the participation rate in the economy, achieve present in the county. an employment rate of 73% in County Durham by 2030 County Durham’s pre-recession employment rate had and create an additional 30,000 jobs. However, the been rising and was very close to the national average. inspector has come out against that. He predicted a Since the recession, the rate has been below the regional lower rate of economic growth and the creation of only and national averages, although it has recovered significantly 18,000 jobs by 2030. However, Experian, which has in recent months. To continue to close the employment done a lot of work on this issue for the county council, rate gap and improve the county’s economic performance, predicted the creation of something like 22,900 jobs, so the plan takes an approach that seeks to deal with the the county council’s figure of 23,000 additional jobs is shrinking working-age population while trying to balance in line with that prediction. There is independent evidence the needs of the economy and businesses in the county to suggest that the county council is going in the right and wider region. direction. The one thing that the report misses out completely is The targets are for 30,000 jobs and a 73% employment Newton Aycliffe business park, which is now the biggest rate among people of working age. We also need to business park in the north-east of England and employs identify how many houses we need and how many acres 8,000 or 9,000 people. There is no mention of it in the of land need to be set aside for industry. Creating more interim report. Hitachi is going to build a factory there, and better jobs within the north-east economy is at the which will create 730 additional jobs. The county council heart of the agenda for the North East combined has allocated something like 130 acres there for the authority and the North East local enterprise partnership, anticipated job growth. The developers expect thousands as well as for wider partners and investors, and—we of jobs to come to the business park, because Hitachi is believe—in line with the Government’s aspirations as acting as a catalyst and attracting manufacturers in laid out by the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Friday other industries to the area. However, Newton Aycliffe last week. was completely missed out of the interim report, which The inspector rejects the challenge presented by an I find bizarre in the extreme. ageing population and the associated implications for What is Durham county council’s ambition? The the prosperity of the county and the north-east. Addressing County Durham plan is ambitious, inspirational and the job creation target is fundamental in the light of the optimistic. It is full of confidence not only in the county projected reduction in the working-age population. The council but in the people of County Durham. The inspector’s report acknowledges that County Durham’s history of Durham shows that the network of settlements growth aspirations accord with regional economic in County Durham exists today because of the industrial aspirations. However, the inspector suggests that we are revolution and the coal industry. We now need to diversify not working collaboratively to deliver these targets, industry to sustain those local communities. That is why which conflicts with the stated aim of the strategic the county council wants an additional 31,000 houses plans in the area and the North East LEP, and the duty to be built by 2030. It wants to set aside 399 acres of to co-operate, which is the Government’s recognised employment land and a further 41.5 acres of specific-use tool for cross-boundary discussions. 253WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 254WH

[Phil Wilson] The report has implications for my constituency. For example, there would be a reduction in housing allocation The inspector suggests, although without evidence, in the village of Sedgefield. I know that there are issues that the majority of the neighbouring authorities in the there. There have been applications to increase the north-east are seeking similar aspirations to meet their number of houses by 2,000. There is talk at the moment objectively assessed needs, rather than seeking economic of housing developments of between 300 and 470 dwellings. growth as suggested. We can draw out the inspector’s Although at the moment, the County Durham plan seems view of the county’s future from the assumptions outlined to have been rejected by the planning inspector, it just and observations made. Although none of those elements leaves the door open for speculators to come along and was articulated during the examination, the inspector’s start talking about developments in Sedgefield village vision becomes clear from a detailed reading of his that are not suitable. We could go back to a position in report. which developers who have thought of applications to First, the inspector casts doubts on the shared economic increase the size of the village by 2,000 houses over a ambitions of the local authorities within the North East given time could come back in the absence of a strategic LEP area, as agreed by the Government and outlined in housing policy for the whole of the county. the strategic economic plan. That is why it is fundamental The other issue is employment. The report neglects to for the Government to address this issue. mention the region’s biggest business park, which has Secondly, the inspector’s vision for County Durham been the generator and motivator for jobs. It also does seeks to limit the county’s role within the wider regional not say very much about NETpark—the North East economy. As someone from County Durham, I find Technology Park—which is a science and innovation that very hard to accept. He seeks to underplay Durham park that has recently received grants from the Government city’s established role and status within the wider region, and the local growth fund. It has great potential, and I in my view, and the council is clear that Durham have seen the science park develop over the past 10 years. residents will contribute towards the economic prosperity It now employs between 300 and 400 people and is in the region. Durham residents will bring skills to our based on a model in Durham-Raleigh, North Carolina. neighbours, working as part of a successful regional The business park there was set up in the 1950s and now economy. employs tens of thousands of people. I am not suggesting that NETPark will get as big as that, but the model proves I turn to the economic impact of the alternative that that acts as a catalyst to attract high-value jobs. vision. In the absence of economic investment, the size of the county’s working-age population will decline Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): I am listening over the next 20 years. The council’s approach seeks to intently to and strongly agree with what my hon. Friend deal with a shrinking working-age population, while is saying about NETPark and Newton Aycliffe. Does he trying to balance the needs of the economy and businesses agree that the possibilities are really significant, because in the county. The two measures of employment rate they are right next-door to Durham university and not and labour force target work in tandem serve to support far from Newcastle university, which are both excellent economic prosperity in Durham. In the context of an in the scientific and engineering fields? ageing population, an increase to a 73% participation rate would not in itself support economic growth in the Phil Wilson: I agree with my hon. Friend. It seems to economy. A participation rate of 73% as a single measure me that the planning inspector is not taking into of success could be achieved in a stagnating or declining consideration the aspirations and ambition of the county economy, as the size of the working-age population and the potential for the county to go ahead and create declines. high-value, strategic jobs that are important, not just to Although the inspector rejects the council’s approach, the economy of County Durham and for the region, in his report, he goes some way towards setting out his but to the country. Last year, it was announced that the own alternative economic vision. The inspector region’s first university technology college will be opened acknowledges that a 73% employment rate is within the next year in Newton Aycliffe. We also want to see more realms of possibility but takes issue with the labour apprentices for the area. For example, South West Durham force target of 30,000 jobs. The preferred scenario that Training in my constituency is doing very well. It is the inspector has come up with implies that only 18,500 working closely with Hitachi to achieve greater numbers jobs would be created over the plan period in County of apprentices. Durham. That is clearly not in line with the ambitions None of this has been taken into consideration by the of either County Durham or the north-east and is inspector, and I fundamentally believe that the reason contrary to most recent trends. The independent Experian why he has downgraded the economic forecasts for the forecast identifies that 22,900 jobs could be created in number of jobs is ultimately that, if fewer houses are the county. needed, there is less need to use the green belt. If there is The inspector’s vision runs contrary to the region’s any way that we can change the situation in relation to ambitions for growth. The labour force target is an building on the green belt, then fine—perhaps we can established target for County Durham and addresses talk about that in that six-month period—but from growth not only in the county, but in the wider region, what I am being told, less than 4% of the green belt recognising County Durham’s role in the wider economy, would be utilised for house building over the next which is complementary to the role of other regional 15 years. If the plan is to achieve the number of jobs centres. For example, 40% of people who work at Nissan that we require, that compromise is well worth considering. in Sunderland live in County Durham. The scenario Before I wind up, I want to give some quotes suggested by the inspector implies only that some 18,000 from business people up and down the north-east of jobs will be created, but the independent Experian England who support the County Durham plan. James forecast showed that 23,000 jobs can be created. Ramsbotham, the chief executive of the North East 255WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 256WH chamber of commerce, recently wrote to the Secretary Geoff Hunton of Merchant Developments, which of State for Communities and Local Government about helped to attract Hitachi to Newton Aycliffe, said: this issue. He said: “We’ve been involved in Newton Aycliffe and the Hitachi “By creating an ambitious plan and vision for the future, project and we see it as working towards the future and Durham Durham county council has made a clear statement that it is open have been very supportive but also they’ve been very ambitious to for business; a statement that we fully support. look to the future and that’s the right way to move.” The inspector’s report, by ridiculing these ambitions, seeks to Simon Henig, the leader of the county council, said condemn the north-east to a future of low growth and aspiration. of the inspector’s decision in The Journal on 27 February: This flies in the face of the Government’s desire to stimulate “He tells us that basically our jobs target should be lower. I still growth in the north and to create a more sustainable, balanced cannot see, looking at the plan, his justification for doing that. He economy. It also holds little regard for the current successes of just seemed to have plucked a sentence out of the air. Just one County Durham businesses, many of which are world leaders in sentence on which the rest then turns because, obviously, if you their sectors and are making considerable investments for the have less jobs you don’t need so many houses or roads and so on. future.” Effectively we have one inspector coming up from the south…saying Sir John Hall said: ‘sorry, Durham, sorry north-east, I’m not going to allow you to have that target for jobs.’” “It’s very, very, very, very, very, very important because it’s not He continued: just about the County Durham plan, it’s about the regeneration of the north-east and the County Durham plan is part of that. “we are not talking about the next year or two. This is about And here’s a council…when they spoke to a lot of us in the the next 15 years and this is a very important document.” private sector when they were putting the plan together we said to Let us put that into context. At the same time that the them you’ve got to think outside the box now, you’ve got to take a inspector’s decision was made on the County Durham lead, you’ve got to use the words enterprise and initiative. And plan, the Chancellor and the Mayor of London made a this is what they’ve done and they’ve produced a plan which will statement on the future of London and what they wanted put cranes on the skyline, which will bring money in from all these to see for the capital city. We all want to see a successful developments into all of the cultural side of the life in County Durham and they’ve been penalised for it. And we can’t let that capital city, but it is interesting to note that, the day happen. It’s too important for the region for Durham county after the council received the decision, a six-point plan council and the north-east. And in the business sector we support for London was announced that referenced no evidence their efforts a hell of a lot, but…we’ve actually got to support or consultation. There is no suggestion that it comes them to get what we need: a rethink on this plan, but it’s very, very with the support of business, residents or, indeed, developers, necessary, as I said, not just for Durham but for the north-east.” but it certainly does not lack ambition in terms of jobs He went on: and homes or the infrastructure required to get them. “We in the private sector will to work together to support the That plan includes the ambition: to outpace the New County Durham plan and its initiative”. York’s growth; to create more than half a million extra John Elliott of Ebac, a business in my constituency, jobs in London by 2020 by backing businesses; and to said: solve London’s acute housing problems, the No. 1 challenge facing the city, by building more than 400,000 new “The County Durham plan’s a good plan. We’ve got to be homes. The list goes on, which is fantastic. Why can we ambitious, we’ve got to move forward. County Durham’s always moved forward, we’ve got to keep doing it.” not have some of that for County Durham? We had to go through the strictures of a planning system, but that Rory Gibson of Handelsbanken said: announcement did not require that. “There’s a democratic decision here for me and it needs to be I want to see a world-class capital city, but I also want followed through. There’s absolutely excellent reasons why this to see a world-class region in the north-east of England. plan has been put forward. It involves the council, it involves For too long, the people of the north-east suffered high private sector, it’s the right thing for us to be doing, it’s looking forward, it’s thinking outside of the box and I think we need to levels of unemployment and deprivation. Some of those give all our support to it.” problems continue today and ultimately only the people of the north-east can solve them, with help from elsewhere. Harry Banks of the Banks Group, another well established County Durham firm, said: Perhaps in the past, the people of County Durham cowered because of the problems that we faced. Now, “We see the role of the local authorities and Government to lay the Labour-controlled council shows that we have the the platform for businesses to thrive and produce jobs and create aspiration, ambition and confidence to move on from employment. We felt that this plan was going a long way towards…that.” those days. We just want others to have the confidence in us; that is all we are asking for. Richard Bradley of Dyer Engineering said: We are up for the job; we just want the tools to finish “Operating our business, we’ve had a business on that site for what we have started. That is why I call on the inspector’s something like 37 years and we wouldn’t contemplate doing final report to acknowledge that ambition, not to downplay business anywhere else. We’re perfectly located to reach all of the the economic potential of County Durham, and let the UK and we have a fantastic, skilled workforce which…is in plan go ahead. I ask the Minister to answer the two danger because of lack of investment, maybe even lack of a plan over the last 20, 30 years, which is why of course we’re behind the fundamental questions I asked at the beginning of my plan because we have to attract people, businesses into the region speech. We want the tools to do the job, because we believe to ensure that we have the skills available for the next 50, 100, 200 in County Durham and we want to see it be a success. years.” 2.57 pm Barbara Johnson of the Morritt said: Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab): I thank my “for my business it’s going to bring people into the county and not just tourism, because the hotel is not just tourism; it’s very colleagues for coming together to get this debate, which much based on business. And we’ve built a business up that is very is so important to County Durham and my constituency. interesting for the kind of people that this plan is going to It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, encourage to come into the county”. Mrs Main. 257WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 258WH

[Pat Glass] but, seemingly out of the blue, he has recommended house building in a number of villages across the county, The speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for one of which is Lanchester. In doing so, he appears to Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) was incredibly good and detailed. have ignored all the evidence about flooding, increased I do not intend to give a speech anything like his; I will traffic and the impact on services. Lanchester has a speak briefly about the impact on my constituency. I am history of flooding, and it has had four one-in-100-year really disappointed by the inspector’s interim report, floods since 2002, but that does not appear to have been given that, as we have heard in great detail, the County considered at all. I declare an interest because I live in Durham plan has the support of businesses and many Lanchester village. However, I live at the other end of communities in the north-east. The concerns that I the village, so none of this would have an impact on me would like the Minister to address are twofold. personally. First, the inspector appears to have listened and acted on the concerns of those opposed to the plan, but paid little Mr Kevan Jones: The situation is worse than my hon. or no cognisance to those living in the county who were Friend describes. In the north of the county, the inspector content with it. Therefore, he has made recommendations has completely ignored the housing allocation and referred that appear to address the concerns of the objectors, to to places in my constituency such as Sacriston, Stanley some extent at the expense of others in the county. Those and Great Lumley, but he has failed to identify any people now affected have no further voice in the process. potential sites. The county council has already looked Secondly, the inspector has failed to work closely with at those places in its consideration of supply for the the county at all stages to improve the plan, as I was next five years, and the sites do not exist. Where does assured he would. I met the Minister with responsibility my hon. Friend think the inspector envisages that the for planning, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth houses will go? (Brandon Lewis), and his team last year to discuss the County Durham plan, and in particular those areas of Pat Glass: I do not think that the inspector has given it that will impact on my constituency. I was accompanied any consideration to that at all. He has simply picked by a planner from County Durham, and I was particularly those villages out of the blue without looking at any of keen to understand what weighting would be given to the evidence; at least, that is how it appears to me. The the plan at what stages. The meeting was helpful in that inspector has recommended the adoption of the Project regard. Genesis master plan in Consett, which would create At that meeting, the Minister and his team agreed new out-of-town retail developments that were not within that the plan was one of the biggest plans that the walking distance of the town centre. To date, all retail-based Department for Communities and Local Government planning has been close to the town centre. It is far from would have to consider, that Durham is one of the perfect, but, overall, it has worked. The inspector’s biggest unitary authorities in the country, and that the recommendation appears to be in contravention of all plan was comprehensive, covering areas such as economic, previous and current planning. It would damage Consett social and spatial development. We therefore knew that town centre, and it would result in unsustainable urban the plan was not only one of the biggest plans the sprawl. Worst of all, the people of Consett have been Department would need to look at, but extensive in its given no opportunity to challenge any of the plans. remit. There was also recognition that it would need I and my communities want to see the County Durham considerable revision as it went through the process. I plan back on course as soon as possible, and I ask the came away from the meeting feeling quite confident that Minister to use whatever influence she has to address there was willingness to work with the county planners the concerns that have been raised and to get the plan to ensure that, at every stage, concerns were addressed back on track. The inspector appears to have made and amendments were made to avoid what has happened recommendations outside the plan in communities outside recently. Durham city without considering the evidence and When drawing up the plan, the county had a number without giving those communities the opportunity to of major challenges, the main one being jobs—it is have their say. I do not want to comment on the merits, always about jobs in the north-east—and the second or otherwise, of the objections made to the original being the reducing working-age population in the county. plan by those living in and around Durham city. Their I believe, as my colleagues do, that the county is right to views should be, and have been, heard, but so should be ambitious, optimistic and aspirational about economic the views of people living in other communities. I development, and that the inspector has got it wrong. understand that this is how the process works, in a We have heard extensively about the details of that, so I sense. People object to the plan, and if they stay silent will not concentrate on it. or they are content, they have no role in the process. In I want to concentrate on the impact of the report on this case, however, the inspector has simply named my constituency. The strong recommendation to withdraw villages, and the people who live there find that they will the plan would have the biggest impact on my constituency, be severely disadvantaged but they have no opportunity because to do so would remove the five-year supply of for redress. housing land defined by the council. That would leave I went to a public meeting in Lanchester village on housing development open to being assessed via the Sunday, which was attended by 150 people, who could national planning policy framework and saved policies. all be bothered to turn out at 3 o’clock on a Sunday The result will be a free-for-all on planning applications afternoon. That showed the depth of their concern that and a catastrophe for communities such as mine. an unsustainable planning application, which was, in I will illustrate that by reference to two areas: Lanchester their view, adequately addressed by the County Durham village and Consett town centre. The inspector has largely plan, puts them and their village at much greater risk of dismissed plans for building in and around Durham city flooding and unsustainable traffic and puts their schools 259WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 260WH and community facilities at risk. Those people have no the lowest in the county at £223 a person, compared with say in the process. Why should the views of people in £5,426 a person in London. For every £1 that is spent in places such as Lanchester, Consett, Crook, Wolsingham, the north-east, London receives £24.33. I know that Stanley and Sacriston count for less than those of other London is the capital city, and that it has Crossrail and people who live in the county? a huge population, but that disparity is huge. We need I hope that the Minister can use her influence to some practical support. Yes, we need ambitious plans put ensure that the plan is put back on track as soon as forward by the county council, but we need a Government possible and that the inspector, or whoever takes the who will correct some of the anomalies that exist. We matter forward, works closely with all communities in do not need the inspector to reinforce and worsen the County Durham, as I was promised that they would. north-south divide. Revising down the plans for more jobs and homes—the estimates are empirically based—will 3.4 pm not help to rebalance the economy. Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab): I congratulate My local authority, Durham county council, has my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) transcended the rhetoric from the Government and the on securing the debate, which is timely given the importance Chancellor. It has put forward ambitious plans for jobs of the county plan. I am delighted to stand together and economic growth in the county, and it is wrong that with my fellow County Durham MPs. Strangely, or the Planning Inspectorate should block those plans. We perhaps not so strangely, virtually everybody—the business have suffered tremendously. I tried to calculate the community, local authorities and community groups— number of jobs lost in my constituency over the last few seems to agree that the inspector’s decision is completely years. They have been lost not just in the public sector, out of step and out of kilter. It seems rather bizarre to but at some quite large employers, including the Reckitt suggest that the County Durham plan, which we all feel Benckiser factory in Peterlee, which I hope will reopen, is bold and ambitious in its expectations for the development and which used to employ 500 people; the Fin engineering of the region, is somehow overly ambitious. When my company in Seaham; Cumbrian Foods; and Yearley, the hon. Friend made his opening remarks, I thought about refrigeration and transport company. the comments of the right hon. Member for Surrey A number of substantial employers have gone, but we Heath (), who accused east Durham schools are seeking to diversify the economic base of Easington, of lacking the ambition to produce people who would in the east of the county, and indeed of the whole county. drive forward the regeneration of that part of the My hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield referred to county. Here we have an ambitious plan that is completely Hitachi locating in his area and to the positive spin-offs achievable and realisable, but the inspector is apparently and benefits in the supply chain. I hope some of the putting the brakes on it. engineering factories in my constituency—particularly I will be interested to hear the Minister’s comments. I in Peterlee—will benefit from that additional activity. cannot anticipate precisely what she will say, but if her The Government have an opportunity to prove they position is that the inspectorate is independent and are committed to creating a northern powerhouse, and Ministers cannot interfere in that process, there is a that that is more than just idle rhetoric. I hope the precedent for doing so. I represent a coalfield area in the Minister can give a real commitment to work with east of County Durham, to the east of my hon. Friend north-east MPs, and that we have common cause on the Member for City of Durham (Roberta Blackman- this. I am not terribly familiar with her constituency, Woods) and next door to my hon. Friend the Member but we have been through the trauma of industrial for Sedgefield. The coalfield regeneration plan supported closures, and thousands of jobs have been lost in Easington, the idea of bringing new investment and employment and we have not had special measures, enterprise zones into the coalfields, particularly in east Durham, but the or a Minister for the area to argue for more investment. inspector ruled against a retail development, which was It is beholden on the Government to get behind the the first phase of the Dalton Park development. The then efforts we are making to generate economic activity and Deputy Prime Minister, John Prescott, overturned the jobs and to improve the county’s collective well-being. inspector’s decision. Again, he had tremendous support Indeed, local businesses are rising to the challenge, from the local authorities, from the community and raising their ambitions and expectations for the north-east from the business community. There is a precedent for economy. overturning a decision of the planning inspector, and I hope that the Minister will think seriously about it. I cannot accept the planning inspector’s assessment. I fully understand and share the concerns of the If he is saying that our county should be less ambitious, business community, which my hon. Friend the Member that we should aim to create fewer jobs and that the for Sedgefield has mentioned, after the inspector deemed north-east needs less investment in infrastructure, that the plan too ambitious in its aim to build more than is certainly not the case. The Government cannot allow 30,000 new homes and create 30,000 new jobs by 2030. the Planning Inspectorate to undermine the entire county As has been mentioned, the Chancellor visited our plan and to stifle the ambition of people in the north-east region just last week, and referred several times to his to bring new investment, businesses, jobs and training long-term economic plan and his ambition to create a opportunities to our region. northern economic powerhouse. That makes for good The north-east has a number of leading international rhetoric, but it does not offer much in the way of businesses. The Government often cite Nissan, and practical support. Newcastle airport is another tremendous business that Although the Chancellor promised investment for generates huge economic activity and benefit for the transport links and skills, and said that he would back region. Shortly, we will also have Hitachi. In my manufacturing and exports, it is worth noting that constituency, we have world-class companies such as spending on transport infrastructure in the north-east is Caterpillar, NSK and GT Group. Between them, they 261WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 262WH

[Grahame M. Morris] expansion is due to begin in May. That will create 600 retail jobs, with an estimated 400 jobs during the employ more than 2,000 people, and they have huge construction phase. That is welcome news. The first export orders and huge potential. We need to do everything phase was in 1999-2000, when the initial planning consent we can to encourage them and to grow our own companies. was given. That is a welcome investment in jobs in We also need, however, to attract new businesses. Part the local economy. It will provide new amenities for the of the plan is to have a centre of creative excellence in community, including a cinema, restaurants, a supermarket, the north-east—a film studio or a Hollywood of the a petrol station, a hotel and a family-friendly pub. north. However, that requires a commitment from the We are, however, looking to the Government and the public and private sectors. An area is set aside, and it Planning Inspectorate to work with the local community, requires some housing development if the scheme is to the local authority and businesses to promote every go ahead. Potentially, it could create 2,000 jobs and sector of our economy in east Durham. My hon. Friend training places. As my hon. Friend the Member for the Member for Sedgefield said we were trying to diversify Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) suggested, we could our economic base. We need some practical assistance use all the synergies in our area—not just the tremendous to do that, whether in manufacturing, light or heavy location, with a terrific vista over the County Durham engineering, retail, the service sector or tourism. I do coast, but the skills base at our universities at Teesside, not want the planning inspector to talk the north-east Durham and Sunderland, and the skills at our colleges—to down. I certainly do not want him talking Easington or get that enterprise going. We therefore have enormous east Durham down; and I do not want him to hold us potential, and I have complete confidence in the people back from transforming our communities. I will not go I represent and in the commitment of businesses. through the long list of business organisations that East Durham used to be a centre of not just coal condemn the Planning Inspectorate for its decision. mining, but the textile industry. A large number of However, I share their concern that in rejecting the factories were located in Peterlee and Seaham. Sadly, county plan, in not listening to the concerns of local much of that business has gone offshore, but we have businesses and elected representatives, and in rejecting seen a bit of a revival with an embryonic business called the advice of the local authority, the inspectorate has AMA, which I met and helped to encourage. It has now itself shown a lack of ambition for the north-east. expanded and won a major contract with Tesco, and we Among the comments that have been made, one that hope we can use some of our skills and potential to my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield did not develop that still further and create more jobs. mention was from Jonathan Walker, of the North East We also have innovative training providers, such as chamber of commerce: Infinite Learning and Development and its Welding “We work alongside our public sector partners and encourage Academy. That is important, because we have Caterpillar local authorities to be bold, ambitious and pro-growth in their and GT Group, and we need to give local people skills budgets and local plans. We are shocked by what the inspector to address the shortage of highly trained welders in the had to say and feel his recommendations not only stifle the region. Infinite Learning and Development was one of ambitions of Durham, but, by implication, the North East as a whole.” three finalists nominated at the national Semta apprentice awards, where it was in illustrious company, competing I do not want to underestimate the scale of the task. alongside the likes of Toyota UK, Tata Steel and Swansea We certainly face challenges in county Durham—and university for the training partner of the year award. more, perhaps, in Easington than anywhere else in the For a small training provider, that is some achievement county. We need support to tackle that. The Government’s and some recognition of its commitment. reduction of the local authority’s budget by more than a quarter of a billion pounds was certainly not helpful. I should also mention the East Durham Employability We need more Government support, particularly with Trust, an employment charity in my constituency that infrastructure, on which we get a poor deal. For example, helps those not in education, employment or training to the proposed railway station in Horden in my constituency secure sustainable employment through its Destination is still in the pipeline—in the planning stage. It would be Employment programme. It has had tremendous results, a considerable boost to tourism, employment and the with 94% of those completing the programme moving mobility of labour, but instead the Government continue into employment. That is a terrific outcome. to focus on faster rail services, while in east Durham we We have tourist potential. With the right investment, need greater connectivity to existing lines. We have had we can create jobs. We can have the most magnificent a welcome announcement that Pacer trains are finally coastline anywhere in the country, but if people cannot to be removed from the network. get to it, we cannot really develop its tourist potential, County Durham should have our praise for its ambitious in terms of day visits or longer stays. We have one of the plans, and should not be chastised by the Planning best-kept secrets in the country in the east Durham Inspectorate. I urge the Minister to give the matter heritage coast—I know it is referred to as the County further consideration, look at the views of the business Durham heritage coast, but I like to call it the east community and local representatives, and help us to get Durham heritage coast, because that is where it is. We the Planning Inspectorate on board, so that we can also have the coastal footpath and the newly announced move together for a better, more prosperous future for nature reserve on the former Easington colliery site. east Durham, county Durham and the north-east. Those tremendous assets are safeguarding and protecting our natural environment, as well as promoting tourism—it is possible to do both. 3.22 pm Last week, having been involved in the issue for some time, I was pleased to hear the owners of the Dalton Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): It is a pleasure Park development announce that work on a £45 million to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. 263WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 264WH

County Durham is a beautiful county and a great As to the ambitions of County Durham, if someone place to live, but it is not a delicate flower, to be had said five years ago that through the hard work of protected in a glass case. Its history is one of economic my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield it would development and change, going back to the early Normans attract Hitachi to invest as it has in Newton Aycliffe, who built Durham cathedral, and including the expansion most people would have wondered whether it was possible, of coal mining, and steel making at Consett, in the 18th but it happened, and that was down to the drive of my and 19th centuries. Another example is the development, hon. Friend, the county council and local businesses. at Barnard Castle in Bishop Auckland, of the Bowes museum under the inspirational leadership of John Phil Wilson: Hitachi first came to the UK to look for Bowes. I wonder what would have happened if Harold a site to build a factory. It looked at 42 locations, and Stephens had been around at those times in history. Newton Aycliffe was not one of them. Much of the Would he have told the Normans that they were being reason it selected it was Durham county council. too ambitious in building a beautiful cathedral that would stand for 1,000 years? Would he have told John Bowes that his idea of a French chateau in the Durham Mr Jones: I agree. It has a can-do attitude—and that countryside, to celebrate his fantastic collection of art, is what is behind the plan. To say that it is too ambitious would impinge on the green belt and be too ambitious is wrong. We cannot let our constituents down and for a county such as Durham? think we can go along somehow, just tinkering at the edges, with time passing us by. There are communities The leader of the council, Simon Henig, summed in my constituency, as I have said, whose economic life things up well last week when he said that we do not blood went years ago. We need to provide them with want to live in a museum. I am proud of my constituency, industry, jobs and opportunities, within striking distance. which includes the fantastic Beamish open-air museum— My hon. Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame but I do not want to live in the museum. It is important M. Morris) is right; things have changed. Instead of to remind us of our past, but we cannot live in the past. heavy industry there will be tourism, high tech and County Durham has never lived in its past; it has always educational opportunities. The work atmosphere is very moved forward. The county council’s ambitious economic different from what it was, but the plan was at least plan is part of that tradition of trying to drive industry going to deliver those things. forward and making sure that the county grows. One of the most ambitious projects in county Durham’s recent I want to mention two things that directly affect my history was the development of the new towns at Peterlee constituency. One is the inspector’s removal from the and Newton Aycliffe. It was a bold vision at the time, plan of the development of housing at Lambton park. but we now acknowledge the foresight of those who Lambton park is a result of County Durham’s history. brought it about. I see the county council’s current plan It was built with wealth and proceeds from the coal in that context. mining industries, but it has been shut away for the past few years and has not really been accessible. The plan I do not think that we could have achieved such a would provide executive housing on the site, but it plan before the county’s unitary status. A unique aspect would also open the parkland to public access. Cleverly, of County Durham as a unitary county is the way it has the development of executive housing, which is needed got everyone together behind its ambitious plan—not in County Durham, would be linked to providing affordable just the business community but people in politics, and housing in the town of Chester-le-Street, but the inspector communities. That could never have worked at the time put a line through that and took it out completely. That of the district councils, because the two tiers would have creates a housing supply problem in Chester-le-Street, fought one another. That is something unique about the because with one fell swoop it knocked out 740 housing plan. units from the 1,230 proposed for the Chester-le-Street Is the plan too ambitious? I do not think it is. It fits area, which were identified in the strategic housing land quite well with what is proposed in Tyne and Wear, and availability assessment. That proposal was taken out, so Teesside. We have had a little bit of a problem in we already have a shortfall. From my constituency County Durham in the past few years, in that Teesside surgeries I know the demand for affordable housing in and Tyneside have been seen as the region’s powerhouses. Chester-le-Street. It also misses the point that the estate, I am not for a minute under the illusion that we will which has sat idle for many generations, could be brought emulate those regional powerhouses, but, as my hon. back into economic use, and not just for housing. There Friend the Member for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson)said, we were also proposals to build offices and other developments can make a huge contribution to the growth of the in the area, but those proposals were taken out. economy of the north-east as a whole. To say that The other issue is the failure to agree the extension to County Durham should be a rural backwater for those the Drum industrial estate. I have two major industrial conurbations is not the way forward. It would not be estates in my constituency: Drum and Stella Gill. The good for the people who live there, and it would create Drum industrial estate is important because it is located generational problems. There was a huge problem in the near the A1. To be fair, the county council has improved 1980s—and earlier, in my part of the Durham coalfield, access to the A1, which has made the industrial estate in the 1960s—when coal mining left. The economic more attractive to business. The extension would have reason for some communities went away overnight. We allowed for growth, but it has been taken out. The Stella cannot recreate such industries in communities as they Gill industrial estate has been designated as the place were then; but County Durham has put forward a plan where we need growth—it is the only industrial estate in on which it should be congratulated. It would at least the north of the county to be designated. Stella Gill is a try to develop industries and attract businesses, not small industrial estate that is not accessible to the A1, necessarily directly to those same locations, but within and it is not attractive to business. The decision will striking distance—in the A1 corridor, for example. basically stifle job creation in my constituency. 265WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 266WH

[Mr Kevan Jones] than just plans in order to rebalance our economy. He also pointed out the need to support the diversification My hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham of our economic base. He strongly pointed out the need (Pat Glass) mentioned the inspector’s arrogant attitude for investment in the centre for creative excellence, the to housing allocation. I accept that there are people in idea for which has been around for some time and needs the city of Durham who want to preserve the city the to be supported as soon as possible. He did such a good way they see it, and therefore they cannot have any job of extolling the benefits of his constituency of housing at all, but the inspector basically said, “Well, if Easington that I thought I must holiday there. He we are going to provide this housing, we can provide it certainly highlighted Easington as a place on the up elsewhere.” The inspector took no account whatever in that we should all look at closely. his report of the strategic housing land availability My hon. Friend the Member for North Durham assessment, because sites are not available in my (Mr Jones) highlighted the need to do as much as we constituency to take up that slack. If we do not agree can to promote economic development in the region the plan, there will be speculative development, as my and to see County Durham play an important part in hon. Friend said. People reacted in triumph last week, ensuring that we get more jobs not only in County saying that they had saved the greenbelt, but they have Durham but in the region as a whole. He pointed out done far from that. Without a plan in place, they have the strength of investing in a concept, as Hitachi has, actually opened up parts of County Durham to speculation. and our need for many more such developments. This is an ambitious plan, and it is a plan that is right As the Minister will realise, every Opposition Member for County Durham not only today, but for the future. has spoken about the importance of putting a plan in As my hon. Friend the Member for Sedgefield said, the place as quickly as possible. Our view is that the council plan links into our wider ambitions for our region. should take the inspector’s comments on board and County Durham cannot be kept out of those plans; it is seek to rectify the evidence base and other requirements an important part of the region. If we are to say to our as quickly as possible. I know from talking to people in constituents that we are doing our best to ensure that the city of Durham who objected to the existing plan not only work but good quality housing is available that they would welcome the opportunity to work with locally, this plan must be implemented. Is there anything the council to get a plan in place. There are three areas the Minister can do to get this moving? The report has where they want to see some movement. been a slap in the face for County Durham as a whole and for the county council. I give credit to the county First, they would like the council to adopt an acceptable council—some people have not given the county council economic development strategy. The key issues for me credit over the past few days—for its leadership on this were set out clearly in paragraph 15 of the inspector’s issue, but we need the plan to proceed. We cannot stall report. On economic development, he wants the council the plan for several years to come, because there would to put more effort into a knowledge-based economy, otherwise be speculation and missed opportunities. There with knowledge transfer not only from Durham university are businesses and housing developers out there that should but from other universities in the region, so that we come to my constituency and other parts of County diversify our economic base. That is also reflected in the Durham, but they will not come without the plan. land use aspect of the County Durham plan. For example, we need to have start-up units close to the university, as well as more widely dispersed throughout the county. 3.34 pm What can be done to support the county to adopt such Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab): an economic strategy? At the public inquiry I spoke at It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship again, length about the need to have such a strategy in place. I Mrs Main. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member was also pleased that the inspector picked up on our for Sedgefield (Phil Wilson) on securing this debate, need for investment in the Leamside line. Again, I hope which puts me in the odd position of responding for the that the Minister will talk to her parliamentary colleagues Opposition on a subject of direct relevance to my about that. constituency. I will do my best to tread a careful path The second issue that I wish to highlight is the need between those two roles. for a strong policy on how the city can develop student My hon. Friend did an excellent job of highlighting accommodation, particularly purpose-built student the key issues for him and our colleagues in the inspector’s accommodation. Again, the Minister will know from report on the County Durham plan. He did an excellent paragraphs 102 to 104 of the inspector’s report that the job of highlighting the need for a strong vision for policy proposed by the council is simply not fit for County Durham and the need for ambitious targets for purpose, and that the council will have to go back and economic growth and new housing units. He spoke do a better job. Any support that her officials or others about the undesirability of reducing housing numbers can give the council to ensure that a proper policy is put in his constituency, and he pointed out that much more in place quickly would be welcomed not only by me but needs to be done to build on the Durham-Raleigh by my constituents and others. model of economic development, and I concur with Thirdly, people are keen to work with the council to him on that aspiration. get sites for additional housing in and around the city My hon. Friend the Member for North West Durham that meet the requirements of the national planning (Pat Glass) spoke passionately about the impact on her policy framework and the guidance on green belts. I say constituency, particularly the areas of Consett and to my hon. Friend the Member for North Durham that Lanchester, if the plan were to be withdrawn. My hon. I do not think people want Durham city to be preserved Friend the Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) in aspic; they want it to develop in a way that builds on made valid points about the need to improve infrastructure its amazing heritage, including a wonderful world heritage spending in the north-east and the need to have more site. We need appropriate development. 267WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 268WH

The Minister will know that the inspector has given Doncaster, Swansea, Bristol and London, and it is the county three options: to continue the examination being made available over 27.5 years. Not all that investment on the basis of the current evidence, to suspend the is actually destined for the north-east of England. examination or to withdraw the plan. I think that we all want to encourage the county to choose suspension and Penny Mordaunt: I was referring to the inward investment to go away, work on the issues that need work and issue that would come into the area. The point that I was a revised plan within six months that will be acceptable making is that the private sector would not be investing to everyone in the county. Again, what pressure can she in Durham and the north-east unless it had confidence put on the council to achieve that aim? If the plan is that local businesses and the local community could withdrawn, I am also interested to know what weight deliver. It is important to put it on record that we have she thinks can be given to it, if any, and to its supporting confidence in the local ideas being put forward. policies. This is an important point of principle. We have Lastly, what does the Minister think about the wisdom supported local plans and made that a focus. Nearly of pursuing an approach geared so heavily towards four times as many councils have now adopted plans development on the green belt, given what is stated in than at the start of this Parliament, and more than the NPPF and the recent guidance issued by her 1,300 communities are doing excellent work bringing Department, which sets a high bar for securing development forward neighbourhood plans, 26 of which are in county on the green belt? Durham. It is an important point of principle that those plans should come from the communities, which 3.42 pm know their local patch best. TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforCommunities I empathise with the situation that Durham county and Local Government (Penny Mordaunt): It is a pleasure council is in. It has put considerable effort into producing to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, a plan. I want to make it clear that although the Mrs Main. I thank the hon. Member for Sedgefield inspector has some concerns, what he has set out are (Phil Wilson) for securing this debate, which has afforded interim findings. It is important to note that he says that all of us the opportunity to discuss the issues in detail “for the avoidance of doubt, this not does not set out a final and his colleagues an opportunity to get their views view”, firmly on record in response to the inspector’s report. The inspector has offered the council different options At the heart of this Government’s programme has for how to proceed. They include the opportunity for been an unprecedented amount of support to enable the council to undertake further work to support their growth across the country. To name but a few of our approach. initiatives, we have established 24 enterprise zones, two I must add a caveat to my response: given my ministerial of them in the north-east, agreed 39 local enterprise role, I must limit how specific my comments are on certain partnerships and supported an ambitious range of projects aspects of the plan as it remains at examination, but I through growth deals, from which the north-east has do not think that that will prevent me from answering secured just shy of £300 million. any of the questions that hon. Members have posed. The It is worth pausing and reflecting on the second issue argument is that the county Durham plan would enable raised by the hon. Member for Sedgefield. Government strong economic growth, significant housing and would not invest such sums of public money in a infrastructure, and represents an approach that has broad process that is largely competitive unless we had confidence local support. In headline terms, those are perspectives in those local plans; the ideas are generated locally, but fully endorsed by the Government’s planning policy. they are tested. The private sector certainly would not The national planning policy framework is clear that invest the sums that it is investing if it did not have authorities should plan proactively to meet businesses’ confidence in and share the ambitions for Durham and development needs and base their plans on a clear the north-east that have been articulated in this debate. understanding of those needs. Our policy sets out that To answer the hon. Gentleman’s second point, I think authorities should plan to meet objectively assessed that the ambition is right. It is good to see ambition, development needs and provide appropriate infrastructure and we certainly think that the job numbers articulated as far as is consistent with the policies in the framework by the Chancellor and mentioned by the hon. Gentleman, as a whole. The Government have made it clear that we as well as the £4.5 billion of investment that we think accord great importance to the green belt, whose will be levered into the area, are realistic sums. The fundamental characteristics are openness and permanence, question is how, and that is obviously what the detail of and that green belt boundaries should be revised only in the plan considers. exceptional circumstances through the local plan process. We are fully committed to supporting growth, and I Our policy is clear that local plans should as far as think we all agree that we want widely supported and possible reflect a collective vision and set of agreed appropriate plans in place that enable sustainable priorities for the sustainable development of the area. development. Plans play a central role in involving The Government’s commitment to sustainable development, communities in determining what development is green belt protection and community involvement in appropriate and where. We have supported authorities planning is not in dispute. I reassure hon. Members across the country in putting robust local plans in place. who have raised concerns, as the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass) did, that the absence Phil Wilson: The Minister mentioned £4.5 billion in of a plan will open the floodgates. Perhaps it would be investment. Can we make it clear that £2.7 billion of helpful if I wrote to hon. Members in detail outlining that is for the intercity express programme? The trains some things that I think will give them comfort. There will be built at Newton Aycliffe, but that £2.7 billion is are clearly material considerations that need to be taken for maintaining the trains as well as building depots in into account, even in the absence of a local plan. 269WH County Durham Plan3 MARCH 2015 County Durham Plan 270WH

[Penny Mordaunt] the crux of the matter: the inspector would not have arrived at his interim findings if there were not significant I have mentioned the green belt and neighbourhood grounds for concern. planning. A neighbourhood plan, of course, does not In summary, hon. Members who have spoken today have to be ratified to have legal weight in the planning have expressed their support for a plan that the inspector process. There is the “town centre first” policy—an issue considers is not currently supported by robust evidence. that the hon. Member for City of Durham (Roberta In the absence of such evidence, the plan advocates a Blackman-Woods) raised—and “infrastructure first”, strategy that is potentially unrealistic or possibly detrimental which the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) to Durham, its sustainable development and in particular mentioned. Perhaps it would be useful if I wrote to hon. its green belt. Members to outline matters in detail; that may give hon. Members’ constituents some comfort. Mr Kevan Jones: I take exception to the Minister I turn to the issues that the inspector raised. It is true saying that, because what has been put forward is an that the plan would enable growth, but the inspector is ambitious plan. She seems to be saying that on the one not convinced, on the basis of the current evidence, that hand we need economic growth for the north-east, but the level of growth proposed would be achievable, and on the other the plan is not achievable. The problem is that it would not adversely affect the council’s other treating County Durham as a small market county; it is city-centre strategies and the world heritage site status a large county. If housing is not put in my area, it will be of Durham. The inspector is also of the view that more put somewhere else, which means my area will suffer as could be done to show how growth in Durham would part of this plan. interact positively or negatively with the growth being proposed by other north-east authorities. In summary, Penny Mordaunt: I thank the hon. Gentleman for the inspector explains that, at present, that intervention. I am simply stating the concerns that “the failure to fully assess the social, economic and environmental the inspectorate has raised. Clearly, I hope that we have implications of lower growth options…is a serious omission”. a local plan in place for his area sooner rather than Let me be clear: that does not mean that the inspector later. However, that plan needs to be based on good has suggested that Durham should be less ambitious in evidence if it is to be successful. I hope that, if the its plan; it means that Durham needs to show clearly dialogue with the inspectorate is successful, the plan why the approach it proposes is the most appropriate that emerges at the end of the process will be stronger strategy. for it. The plan clearly seeks to enable more housing than past trends would indicate, but the inspector has indicated that Phil Wilson: The objective of trying to generate 30,000 there are shortcomings in the methodology for establishing jobs between now and 2030 is in line with what the housing needs; for example, there is the question of Chancellor said on Friday about generating 50,000 jobs whether the predicted in-migration levels are realistic. between now and 2020. If the figures for the county over 15 years are out of kilter, so are the Chancellor’s In relation to housing provision, the inspector’s view figures. That is why the Government need to look at this is that the plan could do more to take into account the matter closely; it affects not only the growth patterns for contribution that could be made to housing delivery by the county, but those for the whole of the north-east, as reusing brownfield land, potentially for around 2,000 laid out by the Chancellor. homes; I hope that addresses the issue that the hon. Member for City of Durham mentioned. Based on these assumptions about housing growth, the plan allocates Penny Mordaunt: I will come on to answer the first some 4,000 homes in the green belt. On this point, the point that the hon. Gentleman raised. In answer to his inspector is clear that second point, there is no doubt that the ambition is the right one. The figures, both on jobs and the inward “The process and evidence relating to the proposed amendments investment that we expect, are absolutely right. The to the Green Belt boundary are flawed, particularly in relation to the release of sites to accommodate some 4,000 unnecessary issue at stake is how that growth in jobs and investment dwellings...A full review of non-Green Belt sources of supply is achieved. I have just given one example. Based on should be undertaken.” current evidence, the inspectorate feels deeply that building on the green belt is not justified, and that the plan The plan further advocates two relief roads in the green would benefit from a piece of work that examines the belt, but the inspector also has concerns about their reuse of brownfield sites. We do not want to slow down justification and impact. Although planning inevitably progress; we want to keep up momentum on this issue. I involves difficult decisions that will not please everyone, am pleased that the inspectorate is due to meet the the inspector points to significant concerns raised by a council. broad section of the public in relation to the proposed strategy. Let me turn to the first point the hon. Gentleman raised, which was about Government assistance. I will The shortcomings identified in the current version of write to hon. Members in detail about planning policy, the plan may yet be resolvable at examination, as the which may give them some comfort. I will also follow inspector’s report sets out. I understand that the council up on the issue that he raised about the Hitachi business is due to meet the inspectorate in March to discuss park and the science innovation park; I will certainly options for how to proceed, and I am pleased that the seek to get him some answers on that issue and will inspectorate is engaging openly with the local authority. write to him about it. We have already been of assistance I can reassure hon. Members who have spoken today in setting up the meeting that is due to take place in that the Planning Inspectorate is as pragmatic as possible March. We will assist in any way we can, not only in my when it comes to examining local plans. However, this is Department but across Government. 271WH County Durham Plan 3 MARCH 2015 272WH

There is one other area that is worth exploring. When Children’s Palliative Care I looked at the local plan that is being proposed, and mapped it to the plans and priorities of the local enterprise partnership, I saw that there is perhaps a job 4pm of work to do that would strengthen the position that the hon. Gentleman is setting out. I am one of a Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): I am number of Ministers who could help to facilitate that grateful to have secured this debate and glad to have the work, which may yield further evidence to support the opportunity to serve under your Chairmanship, Mrs Main. plan as currently set out. Of course, the Chancellor has I first became interested in this area through the work also offered his assistance and offered to work with of Acorns children’s hospice in my constituency, which local stakeholders. provides a valuable service to children and families In answer to the hon. Gentleman’s first point, therefore, from all over Birmingham. I cannot praise its work too we are ready to assist in any way we can. Clearly, the highly. area will benefit from having a strong, robust, evidence- I begin by acknowledging that I believe the Government based local plan, and I hope that we will see one before are genuine in trying to establish a clear funding path too long. for children’s palliative care and hospice services. I understand that the major change envisaged by the Government is the new per-patient funding system. It would be helpful if the Minister said more about how it will work and how he plans to ensure that it is properly monitored and reviewed. I also want to raise the issue of short breaks and bereavement care, as these elements are not included in the per-patient funding strategy. The children’s hospice movement supports the principle of per-patient funding for children’s palliative care as a means of providing more sustainable, transparent funding through an NHS currency, commissioned by clinical commissioning groups and designed to complement NHS England’s commissioning of specialised children’s palliative care services. I understand that the third strand of Government thinking is that local authorities should continue to be responsible for commissioning necessary elements of social care and that together this should create an overarching system where all elements of the care—clinical and non-clinical aspects, short breaks and bereavement support—are all provided for. My purpose in seeking this debate is to address a genuine fear that the impending general election and uncertainty over the new system could lead to a funding hiatus that could have a damaging effect on the children’s hospice movement. If I have understood it correctly, the per-patient system is designed to reimburse providers according to the activity they undertake, and to incentivise both commissioners and providers to deliver palliative care in a child’s home, community or hospice setting, if that is consistent with the wishes of the child and the family, and clinically appropriate. The idea of the currency is set out in NHS England’s 2014 document, “Developing a new approach to palliative care funding: A revised draft for discussion”, in which it is argued that the currency should make it easy for clinical commissioning groups to understand the specific needs of children with life-limiting conditions. It should also be possible for clinical commissioning groups to have a better understanding of what constitutes palliative care and of the potential cost drivers for commissioning. What steps have the Government planned to ensure that those elements of palliative care not covered by the new per-patient funding system will be properly funded by local authorities and clinical commissioning groups? This new system is the product of hard work and, as I have indicated, the sector is generally favourable towards it, but it is worried about a number of aspects. For example, how will the costs incurred by providers during 273WH Children’s Palliative Care3 MARCH 2015 Children’s Palliative Care 274WH

[Steve McCabe] represents about another 12%. Uncertainty over almost 25% of previously guaranteed funding is a difficult the transition be met, including costs of setting up new basis from which to operate. systems to record activity and of ongoing data collection I am sure the Minister knows that these bodies rely demands? massively on public generosity and fund-raising efforts, The Government-commissioned palliative care funding but they also need some core guaranteed funding. If the review by Hughes-Hallett, Craft and Davies in 2011, grant ceases and is not matched by equal funding was clear that introducing and implementing the new elsewhere, 89% of children’s hospice organisations could system should be cost-neutral to the sector. What support be forced to reduce their services. Areas at risk include does the Minister envisage for the voluntary sector short-break services for 60% of users. providers to enable them to implement this new approach? It would be useful if the Minister outlined any plans Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con): As someone who has to provide models of practice that show how the currency spent 14 years working for the children’s hospice movement will work, especially in situations for children and young as a fundraiser, I am completely aware of the point that people subject to continuing care packages and personal the hon. Gentleman is making. Short breaks are incredibly budgets, as introduced by the Children and Families important, because they are not only a break for the Act 2014. It would also be useful to understand how the child, but for the whole family. Often people arrive on a data quality will be monitored and how comparisons of Friday looking utterly exhausted. Just being able to models of care and outcomes will be assessed. have some normal family time until Monday is a great relief for them. Is that not the importance of these short It is not clear to me how the new system will deal with breaks? the issue of transition from child to teenager to young adult. Steve McCabe: I do not think we can in any way overestimate the importance of short breaks to families Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con): I congratulate and to children. Both need space at times, and the hon. the hon. Gentleman on securing this important debate. Gentleman is absolutely right. The survey suggests that Acorns children’s hospice serves my constituency as it more than 60% of users could lose that service. There is serves his. It has a fantastic hospice in Worcester. It has also a risk of a 35% reduction in family support work, done some important work on transition space and which is connected with short breaks and enables many supporting the many people who, because of advances families to keep going in stressful situations. There is in medicine, are living longer. Does he agree that it is also a risk of a 23% reduction in the amount of end-of-life vital that the Government engage with it on this work, care support provided. to make sure that transition is properly supported by the future funding system? Short breaks provide respite for carers and families and should be funded by local authorities and the NHS Steve McCabe: Yes, I agree. That is exactly the point. under their respective legal short-break duties. Despite It is fantastic that so many children now survive for so being key providers of short breaks, a third of children’s much longer. That creates new demands and service hospices are not recognised by local authorities as being needs that have to be considered. I should be grateful if short-break providers. Some 42% of children’s hospice the Minister said what work is being undertaken, both organisations receive no funding from local authorities. within Government and the NHS, to ensure that these Page 56 of the palliative care funding review report transition issues are being considered in any new funding states that plans. I concur with the hon. Gentleman on that. The “pre-bereavement support is an absolutely essential part of palliative Care Quality Commission report, “From the pond into care and should be fully funded by the state.” the sea: children’s transition to adult health services”—that The review goes on to state, however, that far from being is its title, I kid you not—also indicated that this focus is universal, only 65% to 70% of local authorities have open important. access services. Without the children’s hospice movement, We are moving towards the election, so it would help there will be a gaping hole in end-of-life care. if the Minister clarified where we are with all these I am not here to criticise the Government’s intentions, plans. As I have said, I acknowledge that the intention is but the combination of the election and a new system to create a fair and sustainable framework, but we are now with many unanswered questions risks significant funding in March—the projected launch date for the introduction problems. As organisations try to tighten their belts and of the new non-mandatory currency is March—and as take on new responsibilities, there is a danger that they yet, unless I have missed something, we do not know the will fall back on what they know or believe they know. Government’s intention. What I would really like to It will not help the children or families of children with know, and what I think the hospices would like to know, life-limiting conditions if clinical commissioning groups is what is going to happen with the hospice grant? Is the fall back on a narrow, clinical model that focuses on the intention that it should continue during 2015-16 and child’s health needs as defined by doctors. The currency beyond? I am sure that the Minister appreciates that not should not be used as a top-up for the acute sector knowing is a real source of anxiety and a blow to any providers, who can access other tariffs to fund care for attempts at long-term planning. children with life-limiting conditions. Almost 96% of children’s hospice organisations are Palliative care for children with a life-limiting or worried, according to the Together for Short Lives life-threatening condition is an active and total approach survey, that CGG funding will be less than their existing to care, from the point of recognition or diagnosis grant and harder to access. That grant covered about through the child’s life to death. It embraces emotional, 13% of the care costs incurred by children’s hospices social and spiritual elements and focuses on enhancing and existing clinical commissioning group funding quality of life. It also supports the family and includes 275WH Children’s Palliative Care3 MARCH 2015 Children’s Palliative Care 276WH managing distressing symptoms, providing short breaks do not receive as significant a proportion of their and care right through to the point of death and funding from local health and social care commissioners bereavement. That more holistic understanding of palliative as their adult counterparts. That is a long-standing care is reflected in national policy documents such as anomaly that many in the sector perceive as threatening NHS England’s “Actions for End of Life Care: 2014-16” the sustainability of children’s hospices. Since taking and the 2014 Care Quality Commission handbook. I office, the Government have taken that extremely seriously. welcome the interest that the Government have shown As has been mentioned, we made a commitment in the in an often neglected area, but we now need some clear coalition agreement specifically to place hospice funding messages, actions and signals to ensure that valuable on a more equitable and sustainable footing through the work is not wasted and that an easily avoidable funding development of a new per-patient funding system for all crisis is not allowed to develop. Local authorities under hospices and providers of palliative care for adults and significant financial pressures are highly unlikely to children. That would provide a transparent basis for fund what they might see as additional services unless local commissioning of palliative care services. required to do so. NHS England’s draft currency for children’s palliative care should be accompanied by I am proud to say that that process has been accompanied clear guidance to local authorities on funding short by unprecedented direct investment in children’s hospices. breaks and bereavement care. We pledged in the coalition agreement to continue the annual allocation of £10 million to children’s hospices, I would like the Minister to give an assurance that the and I am delighted to say that that was increased by structure is clear and that the intention is to have a 7% in 2012 to take account of new providers. Now three-source funding arrangement, with NHS England allocated by NHS England, the grant has been increased commissioning specialised children’s palliative care and again to £11 million. In addition, there were ad hoc utilising the experience of the children’s hospice movement, grants of £19 million in 2010-11, and more than £7 million with CCGs commissioning general children’s palliative in capital grants in 2013 directly to children’s palliative care using the new per-patient funding system and care. We should not lose sight, however, of the fact that working closely with children’s hospices and with local the annual allocation is a central grant in lieu of consistent, authorities required to commission social elements of locally based commissioning, and it is to that which we palliative care, such as short breaks, bereavement care need to move, not least because local commissioners and support for siblings and other family members, and have a better understanding of local need and how seeing it as their duty to work with children’s hospices. palliative care services can be integrated with other care. It is vital that all three funding sources complement one another. If not, there is a risk that local authorities will The 2011 independent palliative care funding review regard those services included within per-patient funding highlighted the absence of good data on the costs of as the entirety of palliative care and avoid playing their palliative care and proposed the collection of data on part. NHS England’s specialised care could fall prey to an unprecedented scale through a series of pilots, one of a narrow medical model and never leave the acute which looked specifically at children’s palliative care. hospitals. Since the pilots concluded in April 2014, the considerable The Government need to provide some specific data generated, which cover all aspects of contact between distinctions between specialised and general palliative care, someone being supported with care and the professionals so that one side is not tempted to avoid its responsibilities delivering that support, have been analysed with the by relying on the funding of the other. We also need to aim of identifying a currency that captures patients’ know that NHS and local authorities are clear about clinical and resource needs. their duties under the Children and Families Act 2014. Hon. Members will understand that a useful currency It places a duty on them to jointly commission care for has to group health care into units or packages that are children and young people with special educational broadly similar in terms of what is provided and the needs and disabilities up to the age of 25. I urge the resources required, and that provide a common language Minister to provide what answers he can today to a for discussing the commissioning and delivery of palliative valuable sector, which eagerly awaits his response. care. Ultimately, the aim is to give local commissioners the basis for discussions with providers about what is 4.17 pm needed and how it is to be resourced, and clear, reliable The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, data on the complex care that is provided to severely ill Innovation and Skills (George Freeman): It is a pleasure children. Good progress has been made in developing to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. I congratulate the currency, although none of the many providers and the hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve professionals that have been involved have been under McCabe) on securing this debate and for his gracious any illusions about the complexity of the task or the recognition of the Government’s commitment to, and good importance of getting it right. faith in, trying to get this right. I begin by paying tribute A document setting out currency units has been to the efforts of the thousands of people who work so published and engagement has taken place with clinicians, selflessly for children’s hospices across the country.Without providers and commissioners to test it out. The currency their efforts supporting the most gravely ill children and units are being developed into a currency framework young people, we would not have our world-class hospices that can be used locally by health economies for further and palliative care services. I thank my hon. Friends the testing. NHS England intends to make that available for Members for Worcester (Mr Walker) and for Pudsey 2015-16, along with supporting guidance. Hon. Members (Stuart Andrew) for their comments in support. will note that we have not rushed into imposing a new We are fully aware that the reliance of children’s funding system on the palliative care sector. We have hospices on volunteers and charitable fundraising reflects worked extremely closely with many different providers their comparatively recent historical development. They in taking the work forward. 277WH Children’s Palliative Care3 MARCH 2015 Children’s Palliative Care 278WH

[George Freeman] to independent living, further education and employment. Typically, adult hospices do not provide the right I know that unease is felt in some quarters about the environment for that, and children’s hospices are often prospect of a sudden transition to a new funding model. not resourced to provide a separate and markedly different However, as we have previously placed on record—I type of care for young adults, although I know that am happy to do so again today—our aim is for the some people are developing facilities that cater for commissioning of children’s and adult hospices to be fit independent young people. for purpose. That can be guaranteed only by testing the We know from the Care Quality Commission’s report implications of a new funding approach with palliative that there is a pressing need for action across the NHS care services themselves and by exploring locally how as a whole to improve how we meet the challenges of that would support more effective local commissioning, transition. Our system-wide pledge, “Better Health including how it must dovetail with other local services. Outcomes For Children And Young People”, which the There must be a planned and gradual transition to a major health organisations signed in 2013, includes new system, with clinical commissioning groups supported the ambition to secure care that is co-ordinated around and able to take a strategic view of how palliative care the individual young person with complex needs in for children fits into other services for children with order to deliver a positive transition to adult services. complex needs, such as special educational provision There is undoubtedly more to be done, and it must be and social care. taken forward as part of a co-ordinated approach to I entirely agree with the concerns that have been meeting the needs of young people with complex needs. expressed about the commissioning of different services There is increasing emphasis on the integrated for children with life-limiting conditions and their families commissioning and delivery of public services by the being integrated as much as possible, although we believe NHS and local government. We have recently introduced that there must be flexibility as to how different a new statutory framework for the integrated support of commissioners work together to co-ordinate provision. young people up to age 25 with special educational Supporting that joint working, and exploring how to needs or a disability, which brings together the local effect the correlation of specialised and local commissioning authority and CCG to drive the co-ordinated assessment of palliative care with social care, will be an important of need and planning for the individual child. Arguably, part of the guidance and other support made available the role of palliative care for young adults should be during transition. It would be up to NHS England to fully integrated into such a framework of holistic support. consider what direct financial support might be necessary It goes without saying that that would go beyond a for hospices and other providers. That decision cannot narrowly medical model of care. be made before the thorough testing of the currency has We would all agree that developing a new currency enabled us to understand the implications. Clearly, and a new funding framework for children’s palliative appropriate guidance and case studies of good practice care is only part of developing more integrated services will be an important part of that, as the hon. Gentleman for children and young people. I would highlight that said. from 2011 to 2015-16 we have separately invested £54 million On future allocations, just as we do not wish to see an in the children and young people’s improving access to abrupt transition to a new funding system, we do not psychological therapies programme, which intervenes intend to end abruptly the existing financial support to help children and young people who have been provided to children’s hospices. We are committed to affected by family bereavement. ensuring that children’s hospices are properly supported The hon. Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak mentioned in a fair and sustainable way, which means ensuring short-break services, which remain a key priority for the that, when the time is right, there is a planned transition Government. We are very much aware of the invaluable from a central grant to local funding. NHS England has support that they provide to disabled children and their responsibility for determining the future of the allocation families, including those who need palliative care. That to children’s hospices, and I know that that allocation is why, between 2011-12 and 2014-15, £800 million has has been prioritised as a commitment for 2015-16. been made available to local authorities through grants Although it has not happened yet, when the route for short breaks. We have also introduced a short-breaks towards the implementation of the new currency is duty that requires all local authorities to provide a clearly mapped, I expect consideration to be given to range of short-break services for disabled children and the effect of transition on providers and how that might young people, and to publish a short-breaks statement be reflected in any allocations made centrally during explaining what is available locally and how it can be that period. A decision on programme budgets more accessed. I would be happy to consider how we might generally is expected before the end of March. ensure that local authorities are fully aware of the role The hon. Gentleman asked about transition. Of course, of children’s hospices in acting as potential providers of ensuring the sustainability of funding is not the only short breaks. issue facing the children’s palliative care sector, as we In the final few minutes of the debate, I want to try to have heard. My hon. Friend the Member for Worcester deal with all the questions raised by the hon. Member mentioned that as increasing numbers of young people for Birmingham, Selly Oak. If I fail, perhaps I can with life-limiting conditions are benefiting from advances undertake to write to him to address them properly. He in medical science, allowing their condition to be stabilised, asked what is going to happen to the hospice grant and there is a growing demand for the more effective whether it will continue. NHS England has made it a management of the transition to adulthood. Palliative priority for next year. It has not yet formally agreed its care is not only about end-of-life care; it can provide programme budgets, but, going by the undertakings I vital support for living one’s life, but the setting must be have received, I believe we can be confident that it will age-appropriate and geared towards supporting the move continue as it is. 279WH Children’s Palliative Care 3 MARCH 2015 280WH

The hon. Gentleman asked about support for voluntary Bank Closure (Stone) providers. It is clear that that will emerge from the testing of the currency—there is no dispute about it being 4.28 pm included. He asked about plans to provide models of practice: yes, guidance on implementation will cover Sir William Cash (Stone) (Con): It is a great pleasure that. He asked about how data quality will be maintained: to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. the testing of currency will include built-in quality Following the news of the decision to close the Eccleshall assurance. branch of NatWest bank, I called for a meeting with the The hon. Gentleman also asked about whether we head spokesman for Royal Bank of Scotland, which would commit to maintaining the NHS England children’s owns NatWest. Eccleshall is in my constituency, and I hospices grant until a new system is in place. I can support my constituents to the hilt in this important guarantee that we will ensure that children’s hospices matter, not least because the branch is the last bank in continue to be supported in their work. There is no question Eccleshall. I urge RBS to keep the essential facility open of the grant stopping before alternative arrangements as a key service. My constituents in Eccleshall, including are in place. NHS England has made it a priority, but businesses, the elderly and the infirm, need access to has not yet agreed its programme budgets. bank services. They should not be made to travel, using Finally, the hon. Gentleman asked about the new cars and increasing traffic; their local banking facilities funding system for palliative care. We have published should be in the town where they live. the currency document and commenced testing locally. Eccleshall is a vibrant, attractive place with many small We do not want to rush into a system that is not fit for businesses, pubs and restaurants, and farmers nearby, purpose; we want to work with local providers and all of whom need banking facilities daily. The bank will commissioners in order to empower them to have effective be keeping the ATM—I asked for how long—and has commissioning discussions. reached some agreement with the Post Office, but our I hope that I have provided some reassurance to the local concerns in Eccleshall far outweigh any of that. hon. Gentleman that the Government are firmly committed Accounting procedures within the bank’s internal to seeing the children’s hospice sector supported. Given systems remove large chunks of income, such as business, the strength of cross-party feeling on the importance of wealth management and mortgages, from the branch these issues, as highlighted today by the contributions income measurement. As a result, only large city branches of my hon. Friends the Members for Pudsey and for are likely to be shown as profitable. Were interest rates Worcester, I would expect any future Government to to rise again to a higher rate, would not small town continue that and, in particular, to continue the work branches such as Eccleshall become profitable again? that we have commenced in providing a stronger local Furthermore, banks go on and on about their good basis for the commissioning of children’s palliative care. customer service, while often making huge losses—even I will happily write to the hon. Member for Birmingham, when not in turmoil—but closing a bank in a place such Selly Oak to respond to any points that I have not been as Eccleshall is the opposite of good customer service. able to address properly in this short debate. Stafford borough council’s letter on the matter followed an emergency motion and stated: “The council expresses its disappointment at the decision by National Westminster Bank to close its branch in Eccleshall. This is the ‘last bank’ in Eccleshall and leaves all residents, particularly the elderly, vulnerable and those in remote areas without an adequate banking service.” Such an emergency motion is a most unusual step for a borough council. It was also supported by 780 signatures on a petition and, indeed, I will be presenting a parliamentary petition after the debate. Letters went from the council to the chief executives of RBS and NatWest, copying in the Chancellor, the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. In addition, I wrote to the Minister for Business and Enterprise. I asked and continue to ask RBS to review its decision in the light of those letters and the strength of feeling against the closure. In its letter to the NatWest chief executive, Stafford borough council requested that the bank review its decision. In 2010, RBS as a whole had committed to maintain a bank in communities where—I emphasise—it was the last branch in town, even identifying 168 communities where it was already the only branch in town. In 2014, however, at least 25 of those were closed, and Eccleshall appears to be facing the same fate soon. Through the Minister, I ask RBS not to close our NatWest branch. In the past five years alone, 431 communities have lost their last surviving bank branch. The nearest alternative NatWest branches for Eccleshall residents are in Stone, 281WH Bank Closure (Stone)3 MARCH 2015 Bank Closure (Stone) 282WH

[Sir William Cash] constituents in Eccleshall value the local NatWest branch and want to retain it. The town is a small, vibrant which is a 12-mile round trip; Stafford, a 16-mile round community. I urge the Minister to intervene with RBS trip; Trentham or Newport, each a 19-mile round trip; to recommit to maintaining the “last branch in town” and Market Drayton, a 25-mile round trip. The banks policy commitment. seem to want to accelerate the rate of closure, especially The chief executive of RBS, Mr Ross McEwan, wrote in rural communities, in spite of the speech by the to me last week with the RBS 2014 full-year results. Part Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills of that correspondence refers to a section in the results the other day, and what about the national NatWest entitled “A better bank for customers”, in which he says pledge not to close the last branch in town? Why can that for too long UK banks have focused on “market RBS not branch-share, while maintaining the Eccleshall share”, rather than “customer care”: branch to achieve its existing targets? We only need the one branch. The fact that NatWest is part of RBS, with “It is why over the last year our people have worked hard to embed this ‘customer first’ mentality into everything we do as a all its historic difficulties, only makes the proposed bank…we are determined to reach our aspiration of being number 1 closure worse. for customer service, trust and advocacy”— My broader personal interest derives from the fact that by 2020— my family founded the Abbey National building society and the National Provident in the mid-19th century, and “It won’t be easy, but I firmly believe it is doable.” in my view and that of many of my constituents, banks At the end of the letter, he says: also have a social purpose. NatWest data claim to show “We will continue to focus on doing what is right for our low usage of the Eccleshall branch, but the data is contrary customers.” to local reports. People have noticed that queues for the All I have to say is: we shall see. counter service are often extremely vibrant and visible. RBS has an operating profit of £3.5 billion, with an The post office, which is intended to offer substitute underlying operating profit that increased by £l billion services, according to the bank, can undertake a wide in 2014, less the £2 billion in fines—the ones we know range of counter transaction services, but it does not about. That is not good. Thus, in 2015, we might have significant capacity to provide a real alternative. reasonably expect profits to exceed £5 billion, but what The queuing area in the post office is too small and it about my constituents and their service from the bank has only one full-time staff member and two counter in Eccleshall? The chairman and chief executive both positions. How long will the queues be when businesses reiterated their “customer first” policy. The chairman pay in their weekend takings, especially the pubs and stated that NatWest must become the No. l bank for restaurants, on Mondays? As I said, there are plenty of trust, service and advocacy, with the chief executive pubs and small businesses in my constituency, so the adding that banking of weekend takings will make things worse, especially for the disabled and elderly if coinciding with “the customer has to come first in everything that we do”. pension days and so on. The chief executive met the Chancellor to discuss Banks offer a core service to all in the community, bank branch closures on the very same day that I was not only to individual people, but to businesses and meeting NatWest executives to discuss the closure of groups, whether families, single people, the elderly, the the NatWest bank in Eccleshall. That was on Tuesday infirm, farmers and so on—every stratum of society. If 27 January 2015. The Chancellor called for a minimum there is a mobile banking service limited to an hour, standard for managing any bank branch closure. That what happens if people cannot get to Eccleshall at that speaks for itself. time? The post office has no disability compliance and I also now have problems with closures by the wheelchair users cannot obtain access, while its standard Co-operative bank. It, too, has a poor history. I met paying-in maximum for business is £1,000 per day, with the head of branch network for the Co-operative which is far below what the pubs need to pay in each bank last Wednesday to oppose its decision to close Monday. Also, the bank branch can amend or cancel branches at Blythe Bridge, Cheadle and Stone in my standing orders, but the post office cannot. constituency. The nearest alternative branch will now On communications about the closure, I have been be in Longton, which is approximately eight miles from told that five NatWest Eccleshall business customers all the other branches. The branches are scheduled to merely received a letter and that no meetings have been close by the end of July. The Co-operative bank also held. On internet banking, Eccleshall does not fit a claims that its customers are its main priority, but how pattern of internet-subscribed services and telephone can customers be its main priority if it is removing banking. My constituents will be forced to use online or banks in such key local towns? It says it will write to telephone banking services. Many do not have access to affected customers to let them know about the changes the internet and do not feel safe talking to people on the and the alternatives available to them. telephone about personal finance. I understand that Bob Rickert, the chief operating There has been no effective community involvement officer tasked with helping restructure the bank, left it in the closure decision. If my constituents are to have a last week, and last October saw the departure of its growing and diverse community in their local area, with chairman, Richard Pym. The Co-operative bank is local employment and services and increased housing, struggling to turn itself around after facing a £1.5 billion they need to be supported by a local bank in the financial black hole, which we have all heard about and community, rather than decision making being taken was quite clearly self-induced. The bank is not expected away from their people and business. The Eccleshall to make a profit until at least 2017, and in December, it community is a caring one, and as I go around the town failed the Bank of England stress tests, designed to I know that people feel strongly about the issue. My scrutinise banks’ ability to weather a downturn. 283WH Bank Closure (Stone)3 MARCH 2015 Bank Closure (Stone) 284WH

My constituents in Stone do not want the Co-op much further. That is why I have been working to bank in their town to close. They banked with its encourage the industry to adopt a new protocol that predecessor for 30 years and want a full local branch. each bank will undertake to follow so as to mitigate the The post office is not a good alternative, as it could not impact of a local branch closure. offer a full service and the queues are long. The same applies in Cheadle and Blythe Bridge. Sir William Cash: Did my hon. Friend hear the interview on this morning’s “Today” programme with I call on the Minister to intervene by writing to the the chief executive of Barclays bank, in which he talked banks and to do everything possible to try to prevent about the amount of money he is earning and about the proposed Co-op closures in Cheadle, Stone and bank bonuses, which are also under wider discussion? Blythe Bridge, as well as the closure of the NatWest The chief executive and chairman of the Royal Bank of branch in Eccleshall. Scotland keep making statements about customer service—we have heard much the same sort of thing 4.40 pm from the Co-op—but that does not help my constituents The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea Leadsom): or anyone else in the country. They then find a little It is a great to serve under your chairmanship today, edge here or there with regard to the profitability of a Mrs Main. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member particular branch. Does she agree that if banks want a for Stone (Sir William Cash) on securing this debate and reputation that is worth maintaining, it will involve on presenting his case as compellingly as he always does. making sure that people in communities such as Eccleshall He has made good points to which I am extremely have actual access to the kinds of services that the sympathetic. I well understand—I have my own constituency banks say they are offering in their annual reports and cases on the issue—how people feel when a bank in their in the public arena—on radio and television? area is to be closed. Bank branches are often felt to be at Andrea Leadsom: I agree to a great extent with my the heart of a local community. I appreciate that, as he hon. Friend. There is no doubt that banks are keen to said, the people of Eccleshall have produced a petition restore their damaged reputations and that the big UK with close to 800 signatures expressing their concern at banks in particular are determined to show that they the loss of their bank branch. Each of those people, and are there for their customers. I therefore agree with what those in the neighbouring communities in Blythe Bridge, he says about the need to make sure that they are Cheadle and Stone who are losing a branch of the addressing the needs of those customers and not looking Co-operative bank, will feel, quite rightly, that their only at commercial realities. Equally, however, I know town is losing a little piece of its identity. he will agree that it is not for Government to intervene Eccleshall has had a NatWest branch since 1970, and in private businesses to force them to retain completely has had a bank branch operating since the 1870s on unviable branches. We need instead to make sure that what I can well imagine is a well loved local site, so the banks pay careful attention to the balance between situation must be unsettling for local people. I am commercial realities and the needs of local communities. deeply concerned about closures not just in my hon. Friend’s constituency but across the country. I therefore Sir William Cash: On Government activity, I seem to want to tell him a bit about what I and others in the remember only a few years ago an extensive bail-out for Government have been doing to try to make sense of RBS. There are also questions in relation to the Co-op. the situation and to protect the important local access It seems to me that when banks want help—and by to banking services that so many people need and want. help, I mean monumental bail-outs—it comes from the Government and the taxpayer, yet when they say they At the same time, my hon. Friend will appreciate that are putting customer service first they close small but the way we bank is going through an unprecedented important branches in places such as Eccleshall, which period of change. Customers are reducing their use of needs its branch. high street branches and embracing new online and mobile technology.Although we all recognise that decisions Andrea Leadsom: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for on where branches are located are commercial ones, I those further remarks. Again, I completely agree that assure him that the Government can set the tone, stressing banks have a long way to go to restore confidence that the importance of day-to-day banking services to everyone’s they mean what they say when they talk about customer daily life. As Economic Secretary, I have made that a service. However, again, he will understand if I do not personal priority and have worked hard to make sure say that a bank must open a branch in this place or that. that the vital services that the banking industry provides Those decisions are commercial ones. The Government remain as widely available as possible. need to ensure that banks balance the needs of customers NatWest has set out its case that the number of with commercial realities. transactions at its Eccleshall branch is low compared I mentioned that I have been urging and encouraging with the rest of its branch network, but I absolutely the industry to adopt a protocol that each bank would recognise the disappointment felt by customers more follow to mitigate the impact of a local branch closure. broadly in the local area at the news of the closure. The protocol should not simply set out a series of steps People often feel that there is inadequate consultation for individual banks to take before they close a branch, with the community and local stakeholders who may be but should raise the game of the industry as a whole, affected. NatWest has followed current best practice, including how it listens to the concerns of its customers, giving customers a three-month notice period and and, crucially, how it responds. I am pleased to say that contacting its most active and most vulnerable customers discussions on the protocol are at an advanced stage, to help them find alternative ways to bank. However, if and agreement is expected soon, thanks to the help of people are to feel that their concerns have been heard, the trade body for banks, the British Bankers Association. and if local businesses are to feel that the services We are hopeful that we will get something positive that underpinning their livelihoods are safe, banks must go will address some of the issues my hon. Friend raised. 285WH Bank Closure (Stone)3 MARCH 2015 Bank Closure (Stone) 286WH

[Andrea Leadsom] for customers in remote areas. Several banks are taking action to help their customers use those new technologies My hon. Friend mentioned the availability of banking with confidence. services through local post offices. I completely understand We are also making progress on ATM provision. The that for customers having a local post office is not the number of free-to-use ATMs is at an all-time high, and same as having a local bank branch. However, the 97% of withdrawals are now made free of charge. I services available through the Post Office offer most understand that in Eccleshall NatWest will still provide customers a real opportunity to continue to bank locally. an ATM in the local community. There are also two We can and must do more to ensure that everybody other free-to-use ATMs within 1 mile of the branch that understands and is comfortable with using the banking is to close. services available to them through their post office. For More generally, it is often the most isolated or many customers, the Post Office can provide access to disadvantaged communities that have the worst access their bank account, including the ability to withdraw to free-to-use ATMs, so the Government are working money, deposit cash and cheques and check their balance closely with the LINK network’s financial inclusion at all 11,700 of its branches throughout the UK—a programme to subsidise free-to-use cash points in more huge network. than 1,400 remote and deprived areas across the UK. In some respects the Post Office can offer wider Importantly, members of the public can nominate their customer benefits. I know that a number of post offices, area for inclusion. I believe that the ATM network can including in my constituency, have much longer opening play a more important role in addressing some of the hours than a typical high street bank and provide concerns voiced by consumers whose local branch is services seven days a week. Recently, I met the head of closing. the post office network to talk about moves to improve On a trip to India last year as part of my job as the network, to provide more customer-facing space Economic Secretary, I was impressed at the widespread and more security, and to improve the range of financial use of smart ATMs, which have far greater functionality services that it offers. The Post Office is working with its than those we tend to have in the UK. They allow postmasters to ensure that facilities are upgraded and customers not only to make withdrawals and deposits that appropriate security is put in place to enable customers and check their balances, but to carry out a wider range to bank safely, and it is determined to do more to ensure of transactions, such as purchasing train tickets and bus that essential banking facilities remain available in as passes. Progress in the UK could be made by simply many communities as possible. The Government have ensuring that ATMs allowed customers to deposit cash. committed almost £2 billion to protecting and modernising That facility would be particularly beneficial to local the post office network. small and medium-sized enterprises if it were provided I believe that we can continue to improve the banking in a way that allowed depositors to feel safe and secure—for services that the Post Office offers and make them more example, within the confines of a Post Office, a store or consistent for customers, which is why I have encouraged an e-lobby. I have raised that issue with the banking the British Bankers Association and the Post Office to sector, and my officials are engaged with LINK to find look at a standardised approach to counter banking a way forward. services available through post offices. The Government In conclusion, although the Government recognise expect a report on the progress of those talks in the near that individual branch closures are commercial decisions future. and must continue to be so, I fully understand the My hon. Friend raised concerns about the future of disappointment felt in Stone and other communities banking beyond the traditional branch network, and when local bank branches close. There is no doubt that about the services that will be accessible to all. It is vital customers’ usage of banking services is going through that we ensure that vulnerable customers—particularly an unprecedented period of change, but it is vital that the elderly and those in rural constituencies—have suitable we ensure that vulnerable customers—particularly the access. In Eccleshall, I believe that NatWest has made elderly and those in rural constituencies—have suitable provision for a change to an existing mobile bank route, access. so a more traditional NatWest presence will still be I want to reassure my hon. Friend that it will continue available in the town. to be my personal priority for the remaining weeks of A whole new world of banking is becoming available, this Parliament to ensure that the vital services that the and we should be excited about the opportunities that banking industry provides remain as widely available as online and mobile technology can provide. The UK is possible, wherever people live. I fully intend to make positioning itself as a world leader in financial technology, further progress on the initiatives to get banks to create and we can already see signs of the benefits that all the a new protocol, to look at what services the Post Office developments in financial technology can bring. For provides, and to push further on using technology to example, since April 2014, customers can securely transfer provide solutions to businesses and customers in rural money instantly to other bank accounts using only their areas. Once again, I thank my hon. Friend for raising mobile phone number as identification, which means these important issues in this vital debate. that they do not have to access a computer or travel to a Question put and agreed to. branch to make a payment. From 31 July 2016, customers will be able to use their telephone to photograph cheques 4.55 pm for payment into their bank account, making life easier Sitting adjourned. 45WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 46WS

of policy and public affairs at the Institute of Directors Written Statements (2006-14), and external affairs adviser at PhonePayPlus, a telecommunications regulator (2004-06). Tuesday 3 March 2015 Alexander has been a member of the Regulatory Policy Committee since 2012 and holds no other public appointments. He is a member of the Liberal Democrat party and since May 2014 has been a councillor for BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS St Margaret’s and North Twickenham ward in the Borough of Richmond upon Thames, London. These appointments have been made in accordance Regulatory Policy Committee with the Commissioner for Public Appointments code of practice (April 2012). [HCWS326] The Minister for Business and Enterprise (Matthew Hancock): I am pleased to announce that I have appointed Jonathan Cave, Alexander Ehmann, Nicole Kar and Jeremy Mayhew to the Regulatory Policy Committee, Insolvency (Practitioner Fees and Court Cases) commencing on 16 March 2015. Term end dates of between three and four years have been set in order to ensure that knowledge is maintained by the committee in future. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, Dr Jonathan Cave has been senior teaching fellow in Innovation and Skills (Jo Swinson): I am today laying economics at the university of Warwick since 1994. For regulations requiring insolvency practitioners to provide more than 30 years, he also worked for the Rand additional information to creditors about their fees and Corporation most recently as senior research fellow at expenses. Insolvency practitioners are given strong powers Rand Europe. He has previously been a visiting professor, by legislation to administer insolvencies. They take research fellow and lecturer at several universities in the decisions and actions that can have a significant financial US, including UC Los Angeles. Before entering academia, impact on those affected. Their fees are paid out of the he was an economist at the Bank of England and later assets in cases. It is important that there is confidence in the US Federal Trade Commission. Jonathan is a member the way that they charge fees. of DEFRA’s science advisory council exotic disease After commissioning an independent review by Professor subgroup. Jonathan holds no other public appointments Elaine Kempson, we consulted interested parties on and has not undertaken any party political activity. what measures should be put in place to address Nicole Kar is a partner at Linklaters LLP, where she shortcomings in the current fee regime. Where insolvency is a specialist in EC and UK competition law. Before practitioners’ fees are based upon time costs, they will joining Linklaters in 2001, Nicole was a solicitor of the be required to provide an up-front estimate of their fees Supreme Court of Queensland and a solicitor and for creditor approval, before they can take their fees. barrister of the Supreme Court of Victoria. Nicole is Insolvency practitioners will not be permitted to draw also vice-chair of the competition committee of the City fees in excess of the approved estimate unless creditors of London Solicitors’ Company, a trustee of the Mary give further approval. This will therefore act as a cap on Ward Settlement and a committee member of the Peace fees. Brigades International’s alliance for lawyers at risk. These measures will increase transparency for creditors Nicole holds no other public appointments and has not as they will have a much clearer indication of what the undertaken any party political activity. likely fees and costs of dealing with an insolvency will Jeremy Mayhew is a senior adviser at PwC Consulting. be. The provision of clear information, setting out what His professional career has mainly been in the media work will de done and what it will cost to undertake and broadcasting industry, both at the BBC and as a that work, will also give creditors more knowledge consultant. Jeremy has served on the Regulatory Policy when agreeing fees and better equip them to challenge Committee since 2012 and holds a number of other fees where they appear unreasonable. appointments; since 1996, he has been an independent The measures will give insolvency practitioners the common councilman on the City of London corporation, opportunity to demonstrate to creditors what they do where he is now chairman of the City Bridge Trust and the value they deliver in return for their fees. committee and a deputy chairman of the City’s policy and resources and Finances Committees. He is a former Together with the measures contained in the Small chairman of the Barbican Centre Board and has, previously, Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill currently served on the boards of BBC Worldwide, the Strategic before Parliament strengthening the oversight regulation Rail Authority, and the London Development Agency of insolvency practitioners, these steps should provide and as a non-executive adviser to the Mayor of London’s creditors with greater confidence in the insolvency regime Office for Policing and Crime. He is a member of the through increased transparency and accountability. Conservative party. The statutory instrument that will be laid today also Alexander Ehmann is head of UK public affairs at amends how courts deal with insolvency cases. The new Tata Ltd, and represents the Tata business presence in provisions will allow the High Court to transfer simple the UK. This includes large businesses, such as Jaguar cases to the county court at central London so that the Land Rover, Tata Consultancy Services and Tata Steel High Court can focus on more difficult complex cases. as well as a number of UK-based small and medium-sized This will improve efficiency in the system. businesses. Previously, Alexander was deputy director [HCWS325] 47WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 48WS

TREASURY UK-Senegal Double Taxation Convention

Banking Reform The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): A double taxation convention with the Republic of Senegal was signed on 26 February 2015. The text of The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Andrea the convention has been deposited in the Libraries of Leadsom): This Government have taken significant steps both Houses and made available on the gov.uk website. to reform the UK’s system of financial regulation. The text will be scheduled to a draft Order in Council In the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Act 2013 and laid before the House of Commons in due course. (“the Act”), we legislated to strengthen the accountability Attachmentscanbeviewedonlineat:http://www.parliament. of bank senior management and to raise standards of uk/writtenstatements individual conduct in the banking sector. I am now announcing the timetable for bringing the senior managers [HCWS335] and certification regime (SM and CR) created by these reforms into operation. I am also announcing the Government’s plans for applying the SM and CR to foreign banks operating through branches in the UK. ECOFIN The introduction of the SM and CR will be a major reform with significant implications for the firms concerned—banks, building societies, credit unions and The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): investment firms regulated by the Prudential Regulation A meeting of the Economic and Financial Affairs Council Authority (PRA) and for the individuals, particularly was held in Brussels on 17 February 2015. Ministers senior managers, who work in those firms. The Government discussed the following items: have therefore decided, following discussions with the Investment plan for Europe Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and the PRA, that the SM and CR will come into operation on 7 March The presidency gave a state of play update on the 2016. In order to facilitate an orderly transition from Commission’s proposal for a regulation on the European the existing approved persons regime, firms will be fund for strategic investments. required to notify the regulators by 8 February 2016 of Current legislative proposals the approved persons who are to be senior managers under the SM and CR. The presidency gave an update on current legislative proposals. The Treasury will make the necessary commencement order (under section 148 of the Act) and a transitional Annual growth survey 2015 and alert mechanism report provisions order (under section 146 of the Act) shortly. The Council adopted conclusions on the annual growth The Government issued a consultation on whether to survey and the alert mechanism report. extend the SM and CR to UK branches of foreign Follow-up to the G20 Meeting of Finance Ministers and institutions on 17 November 2014. The consultation Central Bank Governors on 9 to 10 February 2015 in closed on 30 January 2015 and the Government have Istanbul been considering the responses received. The Government have now decided to proceed with The presidency and the Commission debriefed the this measure. It will come into operation on the same Council on the G20 meeting of Finance Ministers and date—7 March 2016—as the SM and CR applying to Central Bank Governors in Istanbul. UK firms and foreign institutions will also have until Discharge procedure in respect of the implementation of 8 February 2016 to notify the regulators of the approved the budget for 2013 persons who are to be senior managers in their UK branches. The Council, on the basis of a report from the Court of Auditors, approved draft recommendations on the The Treasury must now make an order—subject to discharge to be given to the Commission in respect of the affirmative procedure—under section 71A of the the implementation of the general budget of the European Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 to implement Union for the financial year 2013. The UK, along with the measure. The Government intend to arrange the Sweden and the Netherlands, voted against the Council debates as early as possible in the next Parliament. recommendations and submitted a joint statement The PRA and FCA will shortly be consulting on expressing there had not been an improvement to the additional SM and CR rules. These rules will help Court of Auditor’s error rate assessment. ensure that the SM and CR is applied in an appropriate and proportionate way to foreign institutions operating Budget guidelines for 2016 through branches in the UK. The Council endorsed guidelines concerning the 2016 The commencement order will also bring sections 36 budget of the EU, which will be its overall reference for to 38 of the Act into force from 7 March 2016. This the budget year. means that the new criminal offence relating to decisions High-level group on own resources—first assessment report causing a financial institution to fail could apply to decisions taken by senior managers in UK banks, building The chairman of the high-level group on own resources societies and PRA-regulated investment firms—but not presented the group’s first assessment report on the credit unions or any foreign institution—on or after system of financing the EU budget, followed by an that date. exchange of views. [HCWS336] [HCWS334] 49WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 50WS

COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT publication of any weekly newsletter, newssheet or similar communication by a third party to whom the council may make payment. Royal Borough of Greenwich I will be placing in the Library of the House copies of the direction, a letter to the council setting out the Secretary of State’s reasons, the equality statement, and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the representations of the council. Communities and Local Government (Kris Hopkins): On [HCWS337] 29 January 2015 I explained to the House, Official Report, Column 28WS, the coalition Government’s commitment to protecting an independent free local press, and how the Government were seeking to take DEFENCE action on the practice by a small number of local authorities of publishing local authority newspapers, Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre (Preferred Bidder) which given their frequency of publication, can push out and undermine that independent press. I also explained that each case would be considered on its merits, and The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Defence that on this basis the Secretary of State had given the (Mr Philip Dunne): The House will be aware that in Royal Borough of Greenwich notice of a direction that May 2014 I launched the process to grant a concession he proposed to give requiring that council to comply to manage, and exploit the commercial potential of, the with the provisions in the March 2011 code of Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre. Following a strong recommended practice on local authority publicity which competition, I am pleased to announce that Solent restrict the frequency of publication of the council’s Gateway Ltd has been selected as the preferred bidder. newspaper. This will be a joint venture between David MacBrayne Within the period of 14 days following the notice, as Ltd and GBA (Holdings) Ltd. statute provides, Greenwich council has made a number The concession is expected to generate significant of representations. These included that in the council’s value for Defence, in terms of both a share in the profits view there is no evidence that its weekly newspaper has from commercial exploitation of the spare capacity at an impact on the local independent press in the area, the port and a reduction in the cost of sea mounting. that the proposed direction would be ultra vires, irrational, The commercial arrangement secures the delivery of and procedurally unfair, and that in any event the Ministry of Defence’s routine and, importantly, surge council would not be able to comply with such a direction requirements. The new port operator will also be providing by the proposed date of 31 March 2015. a deployable reserve capability as part of the Army’s I can now tell the House that the Secretary of State total support force. has carefully considered these representations, together We expect to conclude the transaction and sign a with other information available about the council’s contract with the new operator over the coming month. publicity, the responses received to the Government’s The concession will commence in the autumn. At that 2013 consultation “Protecting the Independent Press time, around 40 civil service employees, subject to TUPE from Unfair Competition”, and the Government’s response consultation, will transfer to employment under the to that consultation. He has also had careful regard to winning bidder. As is normal, their existing employment the Department’s equality statement on enforcing the rights will be preserved. code of recommended practice on local authority publicity, [HCWS330] and has considered afresh earlier representations that the council had made about proposals to direct its compliance with the code to restrict the frequency of publication of its newspaper. The Secretary of State has ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE concluded that it would be lawful and appropriate in all the circumstances of Greenwich for him now to issue the direction as he had proposed. Fuel Poverty Strategy Accordingly, the Secretary of State, in accordance with his powers under section 4A(1), (2) and (3) of the Local Government Act 1986, has today directed the The Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change Royal Borough of Greenwich council, in order to secure (Mr Edward Davey): Today I will be publishing the fuel the council’s compliance with the requirements of the poverty strategy for England as required under the code, as follows: Warm Homes and Energy Conservation Act 2000 following extensive consultation held from July to October 20141. to commission or publish no more than four issues of Greenwich Time, or any equivalent newsletter, newssheet or This new fuel poverty strategy, the first in nearly similar communication, in the period of one year commencing 14 years, aims to set a durable framework for future fuel 31 March 2015, and in subsequent years; and poverty policies with an ambitious new legal target, to ensure that the executive of the council within 14 days of accompanying milestones and a strong accountability the date of the direction will take the necessary decisions in system. order that the council will be in a position to comply with the Tackling fuel poverty has been a major priority during requirement on publication from 31 March 2015 onwards. this Government. While the numbers of fuel poor With this direction not only must the council cease to households rose rapidly from 2004 to 2010, they are publish its weekly newspaper, Greenwich Time, but it is now falling. In terms of energy efficiency, we have also barred from outsourcing or contracting for the delivered over 1.8 million heating and energy efficiency 51WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 52WS measures in low income areas and households. In terms 2. See http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/3220/made. Note of incomes, we have permanently increased cold weather there is also a specific methodology—the fuel poverty energy payments and continued support worth around £2 billion efficiency rating (FPEER) methodology—for measuring energy per year through winter fuel payments. And in terms of efficiency in relation the target. See https://www.gov.uk/ government/publications/fuel-poverty-england-regulations- energy prices, we have ensured a downward pressure 2014-and-methodology through retail market and tariff reforms. [HCWS327] The new fuel poverty strategy builds on this success. The independent review of fuel poverty conducted by Professor Sir John Hills of the London School of Economics, held in 2011-12, demonstrated that the FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE traditional way of measuring fuel poverty had been flawed. It underestimated the scale of the problem when energy prices were low and overestimated the scale of Gifting of Equipment: Free Syrian Police the problem when energy prices were high. The Hills review recommended a new approach—the low income high costs approach. That has been adopted and helps The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth to ensure we prioritise people living in the deepest fuel Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): The Foreign and poverty, above all by making their homes warmer through Commonwealth Office has today laid a departmental energy efficiency investments. minute proposing the gifting of equipment to the Free Over 320,000 fuel poor households in England live in Syrian Police. properties rated below band an “E” level EPC rating The conflict in Syria remains catastrophic, with an needing to spend on average £1,000 a year more on estimated 200,000 people killed and more than half the energy to heat their home compared to a typical home. Syrian population in need of humanitarian assistance. Through the Energy Act 2013, we established a new The UK will continue to do all it can to end the conflict duty to adopt a fuel poverty target. The new fuel through a political settlement, while also alleviating poverty target for England sets an ambition that as humanitarian suffering and protecting UK national many fuel poor homes as reasonably practicable achieve security. a band C energy efficiency standard by 2030 and became The UK is committed to working with the moderate law in December 20142. opposition to help develop their capacity to meet needs Today’s strategy is our road map for meeting that on the ground and to reduce suffering and to save lives, target. It confirms the following interim objectives in thereby also helping reduce the space for extremists to the new fuel poverty strategy: operate. In line with this approach, on 6 February 2014, as many fuel poor homes in England as is reasonably practicable my predecessor, my right hon. Friend the Member for to band E by 2020; Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague), laid before the House of Commons a departmental minute which set out our as many fuel poor homes in England as is reasonably practicable to band D by 2025. plans to expand a UK-funded pilot project to train and equip Free Syrian Police officers, enabling them to The new fuel poverty strategy sets out a number of provide community policing. I am pleased to present a recent and new initiatives that are being taken forward. further UK contribution of practical support to the With almost a fifth of our housing stock in the private Free Syrian Police, aimed at furthering their work. rented sector, and a third of the fuel poor living in The UK is working with international donors to rental accommodation, a new minimum energy efficiency provide training, technical assistance, maintenance funds, standard for the private rented sector is in the process of and basic equipment to the Free Syrian Police operating being introduced. DECC are partnering with the NHS in opposition-controlled areas of Syria. The UK is also to focus on the links between health and fuel poverty. A supporting the development of greater community oversight major focus is on fuel poverty in non-gas homes, with and monitoring ‘of the police to help ensure that they new data, new working groups and our new central are responsive to local needs. Through this support the heating fund. DECC is also looking at data sources to UK is aiming to build community resilience and moderate better identify of people in fuel poverty and new types governance to help counter the threat from extremist of housing that appear to be badly affected such as park groups. Following the success of an initial pilot and homes. subsequent phases, developing the capacity of community Today is an important milestone. With this new strategy policing has become a core aspect of the UK’s ongoing now in place, DECC will continue to work with partners support to the moderate opposition in Syria. in central and local government, industry and the third The departmental minute laid today sets out in more sector to maintain a sustainable path towards cutting detail our plans to gift office and communications the cost of keeping warm for fuel poor homes. equipment, uniforms, non-armoured vehicles and other I will today lay before Parliament and place a copy of operational equipment to the Free Syrian Police. Subject the strategy in the Library of both Houses. It is also to assessment under the consolidated EU and national available online at: https://www.gov.uk/government/ arms export licensing criteria, it is proposed that this publications/cutting-the-cost-of-keeping-warm will include a limited amount of controlled equipment, namely body armour and helmets (for conducting vehicle 1. Wepublishedaconsultationat:https://www.gov.uk/government/ consultations/cutting-the-cost-of-keeping-warm-a-new- checks outside towns), CS spray (small canisters for fuel-poverty-strategy-for-england. We also held a number of individual personal protection), handcuffs (for making consultation events alongside our regular engagement and arrests), and night-vision goggles (early warning system partnership activity. for approaching regime helicopters). 53WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 54WS

The goods will be procured, distributed and delivered barrel bombs. The UK remains committed to doing all by an implementing partner carefully selected through it can to promote a political settlement to end the competitive tender. The total cost of the proposed gift conflict, to alleviate the humanitarian suffering, and to is up to £750,000, which will be met by the Government’s protect UK national security through countering terrorist conflict, stability and security fund (CSSF). The UK’s and extremist threats. assistance forms part of an approach co-ordinated with other donors that will help deliver the best value for In January and May 2014, my predecessor, my right money. Other donors, including the US, Denmark and hon. Friend the Member for Richmond (Yorks) the Netherlands, are also contributing on a similar (Mr Hague), laid departmental minutes before the House scale. of Commons and issued written ministerial statements setting out our plans to gift equipment to civil defence The gift forms part of a renewed comprehensive UK teams operating in opposition-controlled areas of Syria. programme of training and technical assistance worth No objections were received to either gift and the UK approximately £2.5 million in the current financial year, distributed the equipment to civil defence teams along which will be delivered by implementing partners. The with comprehensive training packages. These defence training aims to build the capacity of the Free Syrian teams have now saved over 10,000 lives by rescuing Police including through developing their strategy, planning civilians trapped in damaged buildings, fighting fires and management mechanisms and enhancing co-ordination and by providing emergency first aid. Our assistance between Free Syrian Police units, as well as strengthening has helped increase the legitimacy and capacity of local the relationship between police actors and local councils and supported communities in dealing with the communities. aftermath of attacks. Other donors, including the US, The Free Syrian Police are responsible for providing Denmark and Japan, have also contributed to the civil basic civilian policing in large areas of opposition-controlled defence initiative. territory. Police actors, local administrative councils and the National Coalition’s interim Ministers have all The UK intends to continue its support to this underlined to us the need to improve policing and programme by increasing the communications capability security, and we have worked closely with Syrian partners and mobility of the teams, providing more medium-weight and other donors to design a comprehensive programme rescue equipment and equipping further emergency medical of support. teams. The departmental minute laid today set out our The gift is being scrutinised to ensure that it is consistent proposal to gift £3.5 million in equipment to Syrian with export controls and complies with our international beneficiaries operating within civil defence. The proposed obligations. Recipients have been carefully selected to list of equipment includes cutting and rescue tools, prevent equipment being given to those involved in personal protective gear including helmets and goggles, extremist activities or human rights violations. All our stretchers, medicines and medical supplies, radios, fire- assistance is carefully calibrated and legal, is aimed at fighting equipment and 4x4 vehicles. The programme alleviating human suffering and supporting moderate will also increase co-ordination between the Syrian groups and is regularly monitored and evaluated. We interim government and civil defence teams, and provide have assessed the project for human rights risks, using civilian outreach for the civil defence teams, improving the overseas security and justice assistance guidelines the resilience of local communities. The programme is established by the Foreign Secretary in 2011 as part of expected to cost £10 million and will be funded through ensuring these risks are effectively mitigated. the Government’s conflict, security and stability fund (CSSF). The Treasury has approved the proposal in principle. If, during the period of 14 parliamentary sitting days The use of CSSF funds to cover the costs of the gift beginning on the date on which the departmental minute has been approved by members of the Middle East and was laid before the House of Commons, a Member North Africa strategic programme board from the Foreign signifies an objection by giving notice of a parliamentary and Commonwealth Office, Department for International question or a motion relating to the minute, or by Development and Ministry of Defence. The gift has otherwise raising the matter in the House, final approval been scrutinised to ensure that the provision of this of the gift will be withheld pending an examination of equipment is consistent with export controls and complies the objection. with our international obligations. Recipients have been [HCWS332] carefully selected to prevent equipment being given to those involved in extremist activities or human rights violations. All our assistance is carefully calibrated and Gifting of Search and Rescue Equipment: Syria legal, is aimed at alleviating human suffering and supporting moderate groups and is regularly monitored and evaluated.

The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth The Treasury has approved the proposal in principle. Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): The Foreign and If, during the period of 14 parliamentary sitting days Commonwealth Office has today laid a departmental beginning on the date on which the departmental minute minute proposing the gifting of search and rescue equipment was laid before the House of Commons, a Member to Syrian civil defence teams. signifies an objection by giving notice of a parliamentary The situation in Syria continues to deteriorate. An question or a motion relating to the minute, or by estimated 200,000 people have been killed since the war otherwise raising the matter in the House, final approval began four years ago, many of them innocent civilians. of the gift will be withheld pending an examination of The Assad regime continues to use the most barbaric the objection. military methods and tactics available, including the use [HCWS333] of indiscriminate artillery fire, chemical weapons and 55WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 56WS

Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Act 2010 The establishment of a new independent taskforce, bringing together specialists in social care, law enforcement and health, which will be deployed in local authorities where child abuse is a concern. Linked to the taskforce, will be a new centre of The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth professional expertise, which will develop better approaches Affairs (Mr Philip Hammond): The Government have to tackling sexual abuse. today published a memorandum to the Foreign Affairs The launch of a £1 million communications campaign, to Committee and the Committees on Arms Export Controls promote a wider understanding of what people should do on post-legislative scrutiny of the Cluster Munitions when they suspect a child is being abused. This will be (Prohibitions) Act 2010. accompanied with revised guidance, “What to do if you are The Foreign and Commonwealth Office has carried worried a child is being abused”, for professionals, the out the post-legislative scrutiny, which includes a preliminary public, and children. assessment of how the Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) The creation of a new single point of contact for child abuse related whistleblowing, which will monitor patterns of Act 2010 has worked in practice, and has set out failure across the country. We will make clear that all its findings in a Command Paper (Cm 9021) to the organisations with safeguarding responsibilities should have Committees. internal whistleblowing policies. Copies of the Command Paper are available from the A new system of multi-agency inspections, to examine Vote Office and Printed Paper Office. whether local agencies are working in a co-ordinated manner, [HCWS331] sharing information and taking joint decisions to protect children. Failure of agencies to share information about children at risk was a critical element of what happened in Rotherham. Today, my ministerial colleagues and I HOME DEPARTMENT have written to the leaders of every local authority, directors of children’s services, police and crime commissioners, local safeguarding children’s boards, Child Sexual Exploitation health and wellbeing boards and GPs, making clear that there can be no justification for failing to share personal information about a child when that information The Secretary of State for the Home Department could be used to protect that child’s life. (Mrs ): Professor Alexis Jay’s report into The Government are clear that child sexual exploitation child sexual exploitation in Rotherham and Louise Casey’s must be stopped. Work is already under way to put into follow up report on the performance of Rotherham practice these and other proposals. council both provide a terrible account of the appalling failures by the council, the police and other agencies to A copy of the Government’s response will be placed protect vulnerable children. The culture of complete in the House Library. denial that was uncovered by Professor Jay persists I would also like to give an update on Home Office today. That is why immediate action has been taken to work in response to allegations in Professor Jay’s report protect the children of Rotherham through the appointment that the Department had been made aware of the of five commissioners to take on the full range of the problems in Rotherham in 2002, but had failed to take authority’s executive functions and begin a rapid action on this information. I gave an assurance that the improvement programme; and the launch of an independent Home Office would conduct an internal investigation to two-stage investigation into child sexual exploitation ascertain what happened, which Peter Wanless and and abuse in Rotherham—Operation Stovewood run Richard Whittam QC would then review to ensure it by the National Crime Agency. had been undertaken absolutely properly. My Department has been undertaking detailed searches of Home Office I have been clear that the situation in Rotherham is files and records of the time—and potentially relevant only the tip of the iceberg. We need to confront these files and records across Government—to establish what failures at a national level which is why in September information was passed to the Department about child last year I announced that I would chair a series of sexual abuse in Rotherham and what action was taken meetings with other responsible Secretaries of State to as a result. Searches of the Department’s digital holdings look at the failures highlighted in Professor Jay’s inquiry are still ongoing and we expect to be able to provide the at the Prime Minister’s request. completed investigation to Peter Wanless and Richard I have chaired a number of these meetings with Whittam QC in the next three months, subject to their the Secretaries of State for Communities and Local availability. Government, Education, Health, and Justice, and the [HCWS328] Solicitor-General. Today the Government publish a report setting out the actions we are taking in response to Professor Jay’s and Louise Casey’s findings. Strategic Policing Requirement Refresh The actions will strengthen accountability and leadership in professions and local government; address the culture of inaction and denial that led to victims being dismissed The Secretary of State for the Home Department and ignored; improve joint working and information (Mrs Theresa May): The strategic policing requirement sharing so that agencies intervene early; strengthen the (SPR) sets out my view, as Home Secretary, of the protection of children who are at risk; reinforce law national threats that the police must address and the enforcement efforts to stop offenders; and provide greater national policing capabilities required to counter those support for victims and survivors. Among these actions threats. The national threats currently in the SPR are are: terrorism, civil emergencies, public disorder, cyber-security 57WS Written Statements3 MARCH 2015 Written Statements 58WS incidents and serious and organised crime. The SPR updating the definition of “cyber-crime” in line with the supports police and crime commissioners (PCCs) and definition provided in the serious and organised crime strategy; chief constables in balancing local and national priorities including references to regional and organised crime units effectively, and in driving improvements to their force’s (ROCUs) in recognition of the important role they play in response to serious and cross-boundary threats. tackling serious and organised crime; providing a national network of regional capabilities; and I am today issuing a revised and updated SPR which widening the scope of the civil emergency threat to ensure confirms the validity of the existing threats and, for the that it is not limited to coastal flooding and includes all first time, makes child sexual abuse an additional national those contingencies that require an aggregated response threat. across force boundaries. This will ensure that PCCs and chief constables prioritise My officials have had extensive engagement with an issue of growing national importance. It will encourage police leaders and other partners to review and revise a collaborative approach to building the capability needed the SPR. PCCs and forces will be expected to have to tackle child sexual abuse, including efficient sharing regard to the refreshed SPR when exercising their of resources, intelligence and best practice, and deliver responsibilities to deliver the changes that have been a more effective and integrated policing response. introduced. The other changes in the revised SPR include: I have placed copies of the SPR in the House of Commons Library and an electronic copy can be found Adopting the definition of a “national”—rather than “large- scale”—cyber-security incident, as set out in the Cabinet at: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/strategic- Office national cyber-security incident management policy, policing-requirement to achieve greater clarity and consistency in the articulation [HCWS329] of the cyber-threat;

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 3 March 2015

Col. No. Col. No. FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 789 FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE— Bedouin Villages ...... 797 continued British Influence in the World ...... 803 MV Seaman Guard Ohio (UK Citizens)...... 801 EU Membership (Renegotiation)...... 799 Palestine...... 789 Falkland Islands...... 794 Patagonia (Welsh Community) ...... 794 Iran: Hamas/Hezbollah...... 798 Topical Questions ...... 804 Libya...... 790 Ukraine...... 795 Middle East Peace Process ...... 792 UN Human Rights Council ...... 802 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Tuesday 3 March 2015

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 45WS FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 52WS Insolvency (Practitioner Fees and Court Cases)..... 46WS Cluster Munitions (Prohibitions) Act 2010 ...... 55WS Regulatory Policy Committee ...... 45WS Gifting of Equipment: Free Syrian Police ...... 52WS Gifting of Search and Rescue Equipment: Syria .... 53WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 49WS Royal Borough of Greenwich ...... 49WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 55WS Child Sexual Exploitation ...... 55WS DEFENCE...... 50WS Strategic Policing Requirement Refresh ...... 56WS Marchwood Sea Mounting Centre (Preferred Bidder)...... 50WS TREASURY ...... 47WS Banking Reform...... 47WS ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 50WS ECOFIN...... 48WS Fuel Poverty Strategy...... 50WS UK-Senegal Double Taxation Convention...... 48WS Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Tuesday 10 March 2015

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 3 March 2015

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 789] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Royal Assent [Col. 811]

Child Sexual Exploitation (Oxfordshire) [Col. 812] Answer to urgent question—(Nicky Morgan)

Yarl’s Wood [Col. 823] Answer to urgent question—(Karen Bradley)

Maternity Services (Morecambe Bay) [Col. 833] Statement—(Mr Jeremy Hunt)

Ebbsfleet [Col. 846] Statement—(Brandon Lewis)

Housing Ombudsman (Power to Settle Disputes between Neighbours and Tenants) [Col. 854] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Nick de Bois)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Estimates (3rd allotted day) Housing Costs (Reformed Welfare System) [Col. 857] Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services [Col. 883] Estimates agreed to

Estimates 2014-15 [Col. 916]

Petition [Col. 919]

International Endangered Species [Col. 920] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Local Pharmaceutical Services [Col. 227WH] Fire Safety (Case of Sophie Rosser) [Col. 243WH] County Durham Plan [Col. 250WH] Children’s Palliative Care [Col. 272WH] Bank Closure (Stone) [Col. 280WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Statements [Col. 45WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]