Reproduced from the holdings of the National Arcllives at Riverside
IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE UNITED STATES FOR THE SOtrrHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA CENTRAL DIVISION SUPREME RECORDS, !BOORPORA.TED, a corporation and BLACK & WHITE RECORD DISTRIBUTORS,1 INC., a corporation, Plaintiffs, vs. No. 8929-Y DECCA RECORDS! INC. CAPITOL RECORDS DISTRIBUTING1 CORP., a corporation, et al., Defendants.
DEPOSITION OF ALBERT PATRICK, taken on behalf of the Defendants, Friday, February 3, 19?0, and continued to Tuesday, February 14, 19?0, before David Newman, Notary Public. fiLED MAY 3-1950
e'~1.~~() --· -- .Dep.ty Clerk c ~GINAl
ABKIN AND NEWMAN O""ICIAL COURT RIEI"'RTIERe
STII'NOTYPISTS ~ DEPOSITION NOTARIES
740 SO. BROADWAY. LOS ANGI:LIES 14
TUCKK .. B8BS Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS
1
2
8
4 INDEX
5
6 WITNESS DIRECT CROSS
7
8 ALBERT PATRICK 3 42
9 (Cont .) 45
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS
1 IN THE DISTRICT COURT OF THE UNITED ST A.TES
2 FOR THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA s CENTRAL DIVISION
4 SUPREME RECORDS, INCORPORATED~ a ) corporation~ and BLACK & \v.HIT~ ) 6 RECORD DIST~IBUTORS, INC., a ) corporation, ) 6 ) Plaintiffs, ) 7 vs . ~ No. 8929-Y 8 ) DECCA RECORDS, INC. , CAPITOL RECORDS ) 9 DISTRIBUTING CORP., a corporation, ) et al., ) 10 ) Defendants. ) 11 ______
12
1s DEPOSITiml OF ALBERT PATRICK, taken by and on behalf
14 of the Defendants, Friday, February 3, 19?0, at 12:00
16 o'clock noon, and continued to Tuesday, February 14, 19?0,
16 at 10:3? o'clock A.M., at Room ?18 Garfield Building, 4o3
17 lvest 8th Street, Los Angeles, California, under Section 20??
18 of the Code of Civil Procedure, pursuant to Subpoena Duces
19 Tecum and Stipulation, before David Newman, Notary Public.
20
21 APPEARANCES:
22 For the Plaintiffs: JACOB PAULL Esq. (Supreme Records, 630? Yucca ·Street 23 Incorporated) Los Angeles 28, California
24 For the Defendants: AVERILL PASAROW, Esq. (Decca Records, Inc.) 518 Garfiel d Building 26 403 West Eighth Street Los Angeles 14, California 26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 3
1 Los Angeles, California, Friday, February 3, 1950
2 12:00 noon
8
4 ALBERT PATRICK
5
6 Called ·as a witness by and on behalf of the
7 Defendants, b.eing first duly sworn, testified
8 as follows :
9
10 BY THE . REPORTER: What is your full nane, please?
11 A Albert T. Patrick.
12
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION
14
16 BY MR. PASAROW:
16 Q Mr. Patri~k, have you ever bad your deposition
17 taken before? 18 A Never.
19 Q Has your attorney explained to you the nature
~ of a deposition?
21 A Yes.
22 Q You understand, I take it, that it is the same
23 as though you were testifying in court?
24 A Yes. 25 Q And that the testimony you give will be
26 recorded and then transcribed and you will be required Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 4
1 to sign it. You can make any corrections in it that you
2 wish, but you may be required to explain those corrections. s Is that clear to you? 4 A Yes, you can make the corrections when? 5 Q When the transcript is mailed to you for your
6 signature which you will sign before a Notary.
7 A All right.
8 Q But then at the time of trial you may be
9 asked to explain any corrections which you make. 10 A. Yes. 11 Q It is important that you give consideration
12 to your answers here. 13 A Yes. 14 Q I may also advise you t hat I am not going to
15 try to trick you in any way. All we are interested in is
16 the facts. If you don't understand any question that I 17 ask you, why I' 11 be happy to make it clearer for you if
18 I am able to do so. 19 A Go ahead. 20 Q Mr. Patrick, what is your business or occupa- 21 tion? 22 A President of Supreme Records. 23 Q Is that a California corporation? 24 A Yes. 26 Q And did you organize the corporation? 26 A Yes. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ASKIN 8c N E WMAN - O FFIC IA L REPO RTE R S
1 Q When did you organize it?
2 A. 1947. Oh, I don't know the exact date right a now.
4 Q At any rate it was some t ime during the year
5 1947? s A Yes.
7 Q Would you say it was in the early part of '47 s or the later part of 1 47?
9 A . I think it was the later part.
10 Q Before that time what was your business or
11 occupation, .Mr. Patrick'?
12 A Dental technician. 1s Q Mr. Patrick, since you organized Supreme
14 Records, Incorporated, how many different recordings have
15 you produced?
16 A I don't know offhand. Oh, a number of them.
17 I don't know exactly just how many right now.
1s Q How many records are in your catalog?
19 A That I don't lmow exact ly ho'ttr many we have.
20 I would say at least twenty-five to 'thirty. 21 Q As of September, 1948, hm·r many r ecords did you
22 produce? 23 A September, •48? 24 Q Yes. 25 A You mean how many we produced or how many have
~ we r el eased? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFIC IAL REPORTER S 6
1 Q How many have you released?
2 A Released?
8 Q Yes. 4 A Let ' s see. You see, I don't have all that
5 information her~ exactly how many we have released. I
6 didn't know I needed that.
7 Q Do you have a general idea? 8 .A Oh, I would say at least fifteen, at least
9 fifteen or more.
10 Q Prior to September 1, 1948, of all of the fiftee~
11 releases t hat you put on the market, what was the greatest
12 number of records that you sold of any one of those releases~ 13 A Since that time? 14 Q Prior to "A Little Bird Told Me" • 16 MR. PAULL: I'll object to that as being irrelevant. 16 MR. PASA.Rmv: Well, instruct the witness to answer, 17 Mr. Reporter. 18 MR. PAULL: We'll stipulate that as to any objections
19 that I make that the witness has been instructed by the
2o reporter and that pursuant to my direction, he has refused
21 to answer.
22 BY MR. PA.SAROvl: 23 Q Prior to the release of Supreme record 1507-B,
24 "A Little Bird Told Me", vocal Paula lvatson, had you released
25 any other records by Paula Watson? 26 A One other record -- no, that was the first one. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 7
1 At the time that she recorded. this for you at
2 that recordization, she made other sides, is that correct?
8 A Yes. 4 Q But that was the first recording session which
5 she had ever held for you?
6 A Yes. 7 Q Do you know of your own knowledge whether or
8 not she had ever made any records for any other company that
9 were released? 10 A To my knowledge, no.
11 Q vlhere was this record of "A Little Bird Told
12 Me" made, where did you record the master on that?
1s A It vras recorded at Studio Artists in HollY'tood. Q Now, when did you first hear about the song 15 "A Little Bird Told Me"?
16 A I was looking for material for Paula and I 17 had already gotten her out of Las Vegas -- I had .already 18 gotten her from out of the State to record her. #12 19 Q You say she was in Las Vegas? 20 A She was out of town. 21 Q Where was she playing in Las Vegas? 22 A I don't know. 23 Q Did you first meet her in Las Vegas? 24 A No, I met her here. It was Harvey Brooks' 25 house that we first discussed this material. I want over to 26 his house. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 8
1 Q Was his house located in Los Angeles?
2 A Yes.
8 Q You went over to his house?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Who went with you?
6 A Paula and Mr. White.
7 Q Who was Mr. White, what is his first name?
8 A Leroy tY.h.i te •
9 Q vfuat does he do?
10 A At that time he was musical director of the
11 company.
12 Q He is no l onger connected with you?
13 A No.
14 Q Do you know where he :1s now located?
15 A I believe he is in Los Angeles.
16 Q Do .you know whether he is connected with any
17 other record company?
18 A. I don't lmm·T.
19 Q Do you kn.0\'1 his address?
20 A Not offhand I don't. My understanding he is 21 going back East. 22 Q Is he a member of the Musicians• .Union here? 23 A I think so. 24 Q What year did you go over there, do you remembe, ? 25 A It was in 1 47, sometime in 147 -- I mean in 20 •48. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABK IN & NEWMAN-O FFICIAL REPORT ERS 9
1 Q In •48?
2 A. Yes.
8 Q And what month?
4 A I don't know. It was in the summer months.
5 I am not sure which month it was.
6 Q Well, when you went over there, what happened,
7 if anything?
8 A He looked - - we looked over material that Harve~
9 Brooks had and I selected that tune as the one that we wante~. 10 Q Did Mr. Brooks play the selection f or you?
11 A Yes, he played it. 12 Q He played it on the piano?
13 A Yes. 14 Q And did Paula Watson sing it at that point? 15 A Yes, in fact right there is when we did some
16 of the ideas that we thought we would use on it. In fact,
17 I put -- at that particular time that I put the handclap to
18 it.
19 Q That was your idea? 20 A Yes, definitely. 21 Q Did Harvey help out in figuring out ways in
22 which it could be successfully produced?
23 A Harvey only sang the tune in hi s respect. Then -24 we came back to my house with Paula and our musical ·director 25 and from there we carried it out such as other lit t l e 26 phrases, catch phrases and everything there that we put Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
AB KIN & NEWMAN - O FFICIAL REPORTERS 10
1 them in ourselves at that time.
2 Q Did you write them down?
8 A Yes, we did~
4 Q Do you have a copy of that?
6 A I don' t have the copy novr, but I have the s people who did them.
7 . Q I mean did you make a lead sheet of it or s arrangement?
9 A Yes, we did. \'le copied all of that dovm.
10 Q Had the song "A Little Bird Told He" been
11 published as of that time? .
12 A It had never been -- no, it hadn't.
13 Q Up to that point it had never been published?
14 A No.
16 Q Did Harvey give you a copy of the music?
16 A He gave us a copy of the music, yes.
17 Q Do you recall whether the copy that he gave you it 1s have o_!!/the legend "Copywright 1948 by Harvey Brooks"?
19 A I'm sure he had it copywrighted but you said
20 published, didn't you, you said had it up to that time been
21 published?
22 Q Yes, that is right. 23 A It was unpublished. 24 Q It was not published but it had the copywright
25 legend on there? 26 A Yes, it had the copywright on there o Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ABKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 11
1 Q Well, did Harvey participate ~n any ~urther
2 sessions with you concerning "A Little Bird Told Me 11 ?
8 A. That was the only time -- well, Harvey wasn't
4 even at the session. He didn't have anything to do with it
5 other than to give us the song, to play it over, play the s tune over, and then Paula played it over there, which we
7 then decided it would be a great tune, and we came back to
8 my house and started to get together with our musical director,
9 and the ·musicians, and we got together our own version o~
10 it,. o~ his lead sheet that he gave us.
11 Q Well now, you actually used the lead sheet that
12 he gave you, didn't you, in recording this song?
13 A I would say we wouldn't use it. We used the
14 melody o~ the tune but as ~ar as us1ng the lead sheet ~or
15 our arrangement and everything, as ~ar as our arrangement
16 being done ~rom the lead sheet, it wasn't, because ---
17 Q Do you have a copy o~ the original arrangement 18 that you made? 19 A I think we have it there. I'm almost positive 20 we have it there. 21 Q \
22 A I~ it is in the o~~ice there it is in t he ~iles
23 in our o~~ice there, the lead sheet o~ it because the one
24 wa·s -- there was another arranger. that took it over ~ t ar oui 25 arranger got through with it, and he was the one that f inallj
26 recorded it and he even made some changes in it ~or us. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside
ASKIN & NEWMAN - O F F ICIAL REPORT ERS 12
1 Q When did you r ecord it?
2 A It vras some time in •48. I don't lmovr exactly s what time • Offhand I don • t kno'\or.
4 Q Well, it must have been before September, 1948 ,
5 wasn' t it?
6 A It had to be, yes.
7 (At this point an off the record discussion \ 8 MR . PASAROWr Would you read back the last question 9 and answer, Mr. Reporter? . 10 (Reporter read back the last question and answer.) 11 Q You don' t remember the month? 12 A No, I don't, offhand, I don' t remember the 13 exact month. I w·ould have to get all this. You didn't 14 say that you wanted that. 16 Well, I wanted all records concerning "A Little 16 Bird Told Me" that you had. 17 A I have the records that I have here which I 23 Q Well now, did you make any arrangement for 24 the musicians that were on this side? 25 A Did I make the· arrangement? 26 Q Yes. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 A I am not an arranger. 2 Q You arranged for the musicians to be present a at this recording sess~on? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q And who did you have down there at the Studio 6 Artists that day? 7 A Who do you mean? 8 Q Well, ¥rhat musicians did you have and who 9 were they? 10 A Paula Watson, she played the piano, James 11 Peterson. 12 Q What does he play? 18 A He plays tenor saxophone, :t.fanrell Davis, who 14 is musical director on the session, he was musical director 15 on that session. Let's see, Tiny Webb, a guitar player, and 16 a fellow by the name of Chuck on the base. I don't know his 17 last name offhand. 18 Q You say that Harvey Brooks wasn't there? 19 A No . He was at none of the rehearsals nor was 20 he at the studio when it was cut. 21 Q After you had this mcording session did you 22 send the master over to Black & White Record Distri butors? 23 A Yes. 24 Q At that time did you have an agreement to -- 25 A For distribution of records. 26 Q vfuich would pe~mit him to distribute exclusivel~ Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside A S KIN 8c N E WMAN - OFFICIAL REPORTERS 14 1 any of your records? 2 A Yes. 8 Q Do you recall '\'Then the record '\·ras first 4 released for distribution and sale? 6 A It must have been the latter part of August 6 because our first statement shows September 1, 1948. 7 Q So that the record '\'tas released in August? 8 A The latter part of August or the first part 9 or September. 10 0 So that the recording session must have taken u place some time in July, would you say? 12 A I wouldn't say exactly what time without lookine. 1a I would have to check on that. Q Could you find that out for me, the date of 16 the recording session? 16 A I think I can. 17 Q Before this recording w·as released for general 1s distribution, did you make any professional copies that 19 '\orere given to Harvey Brooks? 20 A Yes. 21 Q How many records did you give to Harvey Brooks? 22 A Oh, I think Harvey had a couple, I'm not sure. 23 Q Those are white labeled recor ds? 24 A They weren 1 t even 'lothi te labels. At the time, 26 first I gave him a dUb, a regular acetate du~, and later 26 on I gave .him the other copies. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 15 1 Q You don't recall when, do you? 2 A Well, no, it was sometime around August or s September I gave it to him. I gave him some after that 4 from time to time, whenever he wanted any professional 5 copies, you know. #13 6 Q Did he tell you what he \'ranted them for? 7 A No, he d1.dn' t. He said he had friends and thin~ s 8 that he wanted t o give them to. 9 Q You say this record was released the latter 10 part of A.ugus t? 11 A By the first part of September because our 12 first statement shows it was September 1st to September 24th 13 Q \v.hen is the first statement that you have from 14 Black & \v.hite Record Distributors as to sales? 15 A September 1, '48. 16 Q And how many records does it show that they 17 sold? 18 A They sold a little over ten thousand in 19 September. 20 Q And ho"'lr much were you paid for each record 21 that they sold? ~ MR. PAULL: Isn't that covered by the agreement? 23 ~ffi. PASAROW: His agreement will show that. He has 24 got the records. 25 A It changed there for a while. At one time we 26 were getting twenty-five cents for each record and Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN - OFFICIAL REPORTERS 16 1 (At this point an off the record discussion was held.) 2 A Then it went down, twenty-two, it varied between s twenty-five and twenty-two. 4 Q Now, out of that sum of twenty-five or twenty- 5 two cents, did you have to make any payments to anybody? 6 A Yes. 7 Q For r oyalties? 8 A Yes. 9 Q And to whom did you have to make those payments? 10 A Songs, Petrillo. 11 Q Who? 12 A Song royalties? 13 Q Yes. 14 A Petrillo taxes, artists' royalties. 15 Q So out of that twenty-five cents and then 16 twenty-two cents, how much '\'tas l eft f or you? You also had 17 to pay a Federal excise tax, didn't you? 18 A. Yes. 19 MR. PAULL: That was collected from the purchase~. 20 A \ibat I would say is this; that the twenty-five 21 or twenty-two cents would be less royalties, Federal -- ~ let's see, wait a minute, less royalties, Petrillo tax, and 23 when I say royalties, I mean to the artists, and f or the 24 song and. Petri llo tax. 2s BY MR. PASARO;/: 26 Q You say Petrillo tax? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside A SKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 17 1 A That is the A. F. of M. tax that the master 2 . agreement requires for every record sold. I don't have that s figure here. The bookkeeper would have to give the exact 4 figure on it. 6 Q You don't know how mueh was left as a gross 6 profit, left for you out of that twenty-five cents? 7 A Out of the gross profit I don't want to make a s statement of the exact amount, but it \-ras less the taxes 9 and royalties that we had to pay. 10 Q Well, do you have any idea what that figure u was that was left? 12 A Not offhand at this moment. The bookkeeper 13 has it. Q vlhat was left out of it then would be your 16 gross profit? 16 A Yes. 17 Q Which you had, out of which you had to pay your 1s overhead and the cost of recording, is that right? 19 A Yes. It runs around twelve, between twelve 2o · around twelve cents more or less, I'm not sure. 21 Q Well, do you have the figures as to how many 22 records you sold in September or from the date that the rec or~ 23 was released, to say September 1st? 24 A The date until September 1st? 25 Q Yes, you say the record was released in August. 26 A No, I said that our first royalties statements Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 18 1 shows September 1st. 2 Q So that then the record was released on s September 1st? 4 A Well, it takes about ten days before you start 5 getting orders on it, so we didn't sell any in August. 6 Our first statements shows as of September 1st that we 7 started selling~ 8 Q September 1st then to September 24th, is that 9 what the statement shows? 10 A Up to September 30th. 11 Q What are you reading from, ~~. Patrick? 12 (The witness hands document to Mr. Pasarow.) 13 A These are reports given 1D us from Black & WhitE 14 Records. 15 Q So that from September 30th, inclusive, you 16 sold 10,942 records? 17 A Yes, that is right. 18 Q And from October 1, 1948 to October 24, 1948, 19 how many records did you sell? 20 A You have the statement there, read them. 21 MR. PAULL: May I suggest you put the statement in 22 evidence? 23 MR. PASAROW: No, because it is a secondary record, 24 it is a recap. 26 MR. PAULL: All right then, we'll stipulate he will 26 testify to those figures. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKlN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 19 1 A Here are your figures here are all your 2 figures here (indicating on documents and handing them to 8 Mr. Pasarow) • 4 Q So that I take it, from the records forwarded 5 to you from Black & White Record Company, Inc., you sold 11 6 10,942 records of A Little Bird Told Me" in September of •LH: , 7 is -that correct? 8 Yes. 9 Q And for the period of October 1, 1948 to 10 October 2~, 1948, how many did you sell? 11 A The records of Black & White is 1~,359. 12 Q Of course, you don't know whether those records 1a which they submitted to you are accurate or not, is that 14 correct? 15 I don't know that they are accurate. As far 16 as I know these are the figures that were given to us. 17 Q You later brought an action for an accounting 18 because you doubted the veracity of these figures, is that 19 correct? 20 MR. PAUIL: I object to the question and instruct the 21 witness not to answer. 22 MR. PASAROW: We ll, instruct the witness to anmrer, 23 Mr. Reporter. Wel~, we have got a stipulation. 24 MR. PAULL: Yes. 25 BY MR. PASAROW: 26 Q Have you ever received any other figures than Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 20 1 these, Mr. Patrick, concerning the sales of that record? 2 A None. 8 Q. Now, from October 25, 1948 to November 24, 1948, 4 how many of that record did you sell or were sold? 5 A From what? 6 Q From what information you received. 7 A From October 25th to November 24th? 8 Q Yes. 9 A Ninety-four t housand, t hree hundred and t wenty- 10 six. 11 Q From November 25th to December 2l;-, 1948, how 12 many? 13 A Seventy-one thousand, six hundred and thirty- 14 three. 15 Q From December 25, 1948 to January 31, 1949? 16 A Thirty-nine thousand, three hundred and ninety- 17 eight. 18 Q Now, did all sales of that record cease as of 19 January 31 , 1949? 20 . A At the bottom of this statement you have the 21 answer to that. 22 Q I am not interested in what is at the bottom 23 of this statement. I "rant .Your statement. 24 A \vell, the statement is here. 25 MR . PASAROW: Just a minute, read the question back 26 and let's get an answer, ~~. Reporter. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 21 1 (Reporter read back the last question to the witness.) 2 A According to the statement from Black & White 8 to us, we didn't rece:Lve any. \•le have no record of the 4 sales during that period. 5 MR. PAULL: Do you want an explanation off the r ecord~ 6 I'll. give it to you. 7 (At this point an off the record discussion was held.~ s BY MR. PA.SAROW: 9 Q vlas it after January 31, 194-9 that you commencec 10 having difficulties with Black & vlhite concerning this u rec·ord? 12 A Yes. 13 MR. PAULL: Object to that, just a minute, object to 14 that on the grounds that your question is predicated upon 15 an assumed state of facts that there was difficulties with 16 Black & vlhite concerning this record. 17 MR . PASAROW: Read the question, Mr . Reporter. 1s (Reporter read back the last question.) 19 ·MR. PASAROW: I'm just asking him whether he commence~ 20 having difficulties concerning this record. 21 MR . PAULL: No . 22 MR . PASAROW: Read it again for Mr. Paull to see 23 what the question 'is. 24 MR. PAULL: You don't have to read again for me, 25 I remember the question. You are assuming that there was 26 difficulty with respect to this record, and you asked Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 22 1 whether that difficulty occurred subsequent to a certain 2 date, namely, January 31st. 8 MR. PASAROW: MY question was as follows: "QUESTION: 4 Did you commence having difficulties with Black & White 5 concerning a distribution of this record after January 31, 6 1949 ,""rhich I think is a perfectly proper question? 7 MR. PAULL: That was ·not your question. 8 MR. PASAROW: Well, then, let that be my question. 9 Q Did you commence having difficulties with 10 Black & White concerning the distribution of this record after u January 31, 1949? 12 A I wouldn't say this record. We had difficulties 13 concerning the whole general procedure, that is all. 14 Q or which this record was a part, is that right? 15 A Yes. 16 Q This was the biggest selling record that you 17 had in your catal6g, \orasn •t it? 18 A At that particular time it was the biggest 19 record that \ore had. 20 Q · Have you ever had a record that sold more than 21 that'? 22 MR. PAULL: Just a moment, _I object to that on the 23 grounds it is entirely irrelevant. 24 MR. PAS.AROlv: Instruct the witness to answer. 25 ~m. PAULL: The same stipulation. 26 BY MR. PASA.ROW: Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN - OFFICIAL REP ORTERS 23 1 Q Now, from February 2?, 1949 to March 30, 1949, 2 did you have any sales of that record? s A We sold 60~ according to the 4 Q That is records -- those are records that 5 Black & White disposEd of, is that correct? 6 A Yes. #14 7 Q Now, did you commence distributing this record s yourself' at any time? 9 A After that period we did. After February we 10 started doing our own distributing. 11 Q After February 1st? 12 A No, it was some time in March, some time around 13 about the middle of February or the first of March, I am 14 not sure of the date on that. The number of records we 15 sold, that we sold outside of Black & \fui te, I don't have 16 those figures here because you asked for Black & White 17 statements on that. 18 Q No, I didn't. I asked for any records that 19 you may have concerning sales of the record "A Little Bird 20 Told Me". Have you got a C?PY of the Subpoena there? 21 MR. PAULL: Do you have a means of compiling the 22 record of sales made directly by Supreme Records? 23 A Yes. 24 MR. PAULL: After the distribution with Black & White 25 was terminated'? 26 A Yes. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 24 1 MR. PAULL: All right. Do you have any ob jections 2 to leaving a blank space in the deposition for the insertion? 8 MR. PASAROW: I would like to see those records. That 4 is the purpose of a Subpoena, so I can look at these records. 6 MR. PAULL: All right. 6 MR. PASROW: Now, we will have to have Mr. Patrick 7 back here to bring some of· those records in. 8 A I can give them to you and I can give them to 9 you now. 10 Q · I want to see the records , Mr. Patrick. I have 11 a right to see the r ecords. ·I want to see them. 12 A Okay. 18 Q 1:/ho did your pressing for you, Nr . Patrick? 14 A Black & Ylhi te did all of that. I had nothing 16 to do with the pressings. 16 Q After you started distributing them yourself, 17 did you have any pressings made? 18 A Pressings were made by Duroaflex in Long Beach, 19 California and Empire Records in New York City. 20 Q Do you have the pressing orders? 21 A Yes, we do. 22 Q \vill you bring those in, too? 23 A Yes. 24 Q Now, after you~arted doing your own distribut- 26 ing, did you engage any other distributing companies to 26 work the terri tory for you'? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN - OFFICIAL R EPORTERS 25 1 A We did our own distributing -- pardon me, to 2 get this straight, Black & \'lhite acted as ·a general distribu s tor and sold to other distributors. We took on those dis- 4 tributors and distributed it ourselves through these dis- 6 tributors. 6 Q Did you have any salesmen of your own that 7 worked for Supreme Records, Inc.? 8 A Yes. 9 Q How many salesmen did you have?. 10 A We had one. representative. 11 Q You had one salesman? 12 A One represe~tative. 13 Q Did he .visit record shops to sell the records? 14 A Just a moment. You are speaking about 15 salesmen going directly to record stores or are you speaking 16 about salesmen or representatives going to the distributors? 17 Q I am talking about salesmen that went either 18 to record stores or to distributors or both. 19 A Let me see. All of our records sold locally, 20 the record stores came in to our place and bought them and 21 we had one salesman at the counter or whoever was there that 22 ~as selling them that way. Outside of that, the representa- 23 tive for the company· who was in New York, sold them to dis 24 tributors, so I ,.rould say that we had one distributor on the 25 road, a salesman on the road, and as far as outside salesmen u we had one, and sometimes two. It varied there, due t o Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 26 1 conditions of the business. One salesman we had here was 2 a fellow by the name of Dave Ward , locally. 8 Q That is the only man you had locally? 4 A I have had other men , but I don't know whether 5 these other men were there during the period that we were 6 selling this particular number or not. It may have been 7 after that that they came in. I would have to check the 8 records of how long we sold those records and check their 9 employment dates to be sure of that. \·le had two or three 10 help in the office. They were selling over the counter. 11 I don' t kriow whether you would consider them salesmen or 12 not~ 13 Q They 't'Tere clerks , tteren • t they? 14 A vlell . 15 Q They didn't go out and visit record shops, 16 did they? 17 A In some instances. 18 Q Well, in how many instances? 19 A vlell, I couldn't say offhand just how many in- 20 stances. Sometimes they would have to go to different store 21 and pick up orders or take orders and deliver. 22 Q Delivering, isn't that right? 23 A Well, they were delivering atrd sometimes they 24 would sell them. 26 Q Well, did they go out with samples of the 26 records? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN - OFFICIAL REPORTERS 27 1 A I would say two or more duripg that period 2 would be it. 8 Q Does your pay1."oll record show that? 4 A Yes. 6 Q You have the names or those fellows? 6 A Yes, I do. 7' Q What are they? 8 A As far as I know at this particular moment it 9 would be Dave Ward and Guy Ward. 10 Q Those are the only two men that you had, that 11 you would know or that visited record shops? 12 A Until I could cheek and see who else was on 13 it during that time. I would have to cheek and find out. 14 Q Could you give me an estimation at this time 15 as t o the number or records or "A Little Bird Told Me" , that 16 was sold after February 1, 1949, through your office? 17 A No, but I will bring that to you. 18 Q You have no idea? 19 A I have no idea offhand. 20 MR. PAULL: Incidentally, the date in which he 21 me~tions selling directly himself rather than through Black 22 & White is March --- 23 MR . PASAROW: Let the witness testify. I told him 24 at the outset or this deposition if there was any question 25 that he didn't understand, why he could ask for a clarifiea· 26 tion or it. If you want to testify, Mr. Paull, why we will Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABK IN 8c N E WMAN - O F F ICIAL REPORT ERS 28 1 swear you in. I am trying to get this "information from the 2 witness. 8 MR . PAULL: I assumed that youwere interested--- 4 A What date did you say there, did you say 6 February or '\'That? 6 BY MR. PASAROW: 7 Q February 1st. s A February 1st was when we \oTere getting our -- 9 records were being sold through Black & White. 10 Q You have no record of that at all? 11 A No, I don't. 12 Q Now, March 1st you started selling them 1a yourself? 14 A I will have to bring that information in to 15 you to be sure. I am not sure. 16 Q There was a period, wasn't there, Mr. Patrick, 17 when both Blaek & White and you were selling the records 1s independently of each other? 19 A That is exactly what I want to bring in to 20 you. 21 (At this point an off the record discussion was held.) 22 Q You will obtain those records for me, is that 2a correct? 24 A Yes. 25 Q ll/hen you return, when this deposition is 26 e:ontinued? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFF ICIAL REPOR TERS 29 1 A. Yes. 2 }ffi. PAULL: That is, sales made by Supreme? s MR. PASAROW: Sales made by Supreme and also any 4 records that he has concerning this period after February 1, 5 1949 where we have no record, and there was a period in 6 there which he testified that both he and Black & White 7 '\'lere selling this record at the same time. 8 MR. PAULL: The period covered by February 1st to 9 February 24th is covered by a statement, a copy of which 10 we do not have, but the original of which is on file in u the Superior Court action and we will get for you ihe 12 period of commencement of sales directly by Supreme and 13 give you the date that they commenced, whether they are 14 concurrent with the Black & White sales we at present don't 16 know. 16 MR. PASAROW: Well, wait a minute, he said there 17 was a period vrhen there was a concurrent sales by both 18 parties. 19 MR . PAULL: All right, we'll give you the date of the 2o commencement of sales by Supreme and the total number of 21 sales made up to the time of termination of sales. We will 22 give you the records with respect to pressings f or the 23 same period. 24 MR. PASAROW: All right. 25 MR . P~ULL: I'll get for you the statements sub- 26 mitted by Black & White for the month of February, 1949. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAl.. REPORTERS 30 1 MR . PASAROW: All right. 2 Q Now, a~ter March 30, 1949, did the sales of s "A Little Bird Told Men continue? I am speaking now, of 4 course, of your Supreme record 1507-B? 5 A That information I will give you when I bring 6 that in. 7 Q Are you still selling that record? 8 A No, I wish I could. 9 Q Mr . Patrick, going back to the arrangement of 10 this composi tion, did you copywright that arrangement? 11 A No, we didn't COPY''Il"ight it. 12 Q You have heard, have you not, handclapping in 13 a musical selection before you put out this record of "A 14 Little Bird Told Me", haven' t you? 15 A Yes, I have heard handclapping. 16 Q You don't claim that the idea of handclapping 17 as a basis of a musical arrangement , is original with you, 18 do you? 19 A No, it is not original as far as we are 20 concerned. 21 Q You have heard a lot of records, spirituals 22 and all types of songs t hat have handclapping in it, haven't 23 you? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Now, ~~. Patrick, up to September 1st, let us 26 say, 1948, would you say from the basis of your experience Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPO RTERS 31 1 in t he record business, that Paula Watson '\'ras a well known 2 recording artist, well known to the general public? #15 s A She wasn't known at all to the public. , 4 Q Have you ever heard of an artist known as 5 Evelyn Knight? 6 A Never heard of her before. 7 Q Never heard of her before? 8 A No'. 9 Q Never heard her on the radio? 10 A No. 11 Q Did you ever hear of Decca Records, Inc.? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Ho"r long ago did you hear of Decca Records, 14 Inc.? 15 A Oh, a number of years. 16 Q From your experience in the record business 17 as President of ?upreme Records , Inc., would you say that 18 the 1a. bel of Decca Records 1-ras a vrell known label in the 19 rec·ord business? ~ l Yes, it is . 21 Q You would also say tba t they were one of the ~ major recording companies in the United States, wouldn't 23 you? 24 A Yes. 25 Q Up to September 1, 1948, from your experience 26 in the record business, would you say that the Supreme label Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 32 1 was well known to the general public in the United States 2 as a label of phonograph records? s MR. PAULL: I object to that on the grounds it is 4 irrelevant. 5 MR. P.ASAROvl: Instruct the witness to ans't-rer. 6 MR . PAULL: The same stipulation. 7 BY MR. PASAROW: 8 Q Nm-r, your label 15'07-B, "A Little Bird Told Me", 9 with voeal by Paula Watson, is that the best selling record 10 that you ever produced by Supreme Records? 11 A I would say that that record sold better than 12 any other record we have had. 13 Q You still haven't the completed figures, have 14 . you, on the total records that were sold by Supreme of "A 15 Little Bird Told l.fe" or by Black & White Record Distributors, 16 Inc •? 17 A That information I said I would give to you. 18 Q Yes. ~~. Patrick, did you read the Complaint 19 in this case? 20 A I read it over hurriedly. 21 Q You signed it, didn't you? 22 A Oh, you mean -- I thought you meant the 2s deposition that you asked me -- the Complaint, yes, I read 24 over the Complaint. 25 Q That is the document that you signed? 26 A Oh, yes. I thought you meant the Notice for Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABK I N 8c NEWMAN - OFFICIAL REPORTERS 33 1 Deposition. 2 Q No·, I'm talking about the original Complaint. 8 A Yes. 4 Q Did you read that over? 5 A Yes. 6 Q Before you signed it? 7 A YEB. 8 Q Nm.v, I want to call your attention to Paragraph 9 9 in the Complaint in ~mich you allege that the defendants -~ 10 you allege that. phonograph dealers are, and the public are 11 being misled, confused and deceived into believing that 12 plaintiff, that is your product, is being sold instead of 13 and in the place of the defendants• product. Would you 14 explain to me what you meant by that allegation? 15 A For example, the record, Decca's record was 16 copied so close to ours that when you heard the records you 17 would have to ~isten, you would have to practically be an 18 expert on the voice. to tell whether it was Paula Watson or 19 whether it was ~lyn Knight. 20 Q You are speaking now of the music on the record 21 itself, is that correct? 22 I am speru{ing of the interpretation of the 23 music on the record. 24 Q Now·, you aren't contending, are you, that there 25 is any similarity bet,veen the labels of Decca record and 26 Supreme? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 A No. .. 2 Q And the Supreme records, ard you? 8 A No. 4 Q You do know, as a matter of fact, that the .5 Decca record was on the market long before this Supreme 6 record, is that right? 7 A Yes. 8 MR. PAULL: Speaking of records generally or of this 9 number particularly? 10 BY MR. PASARmv: 11 Q Of the Decca label, I think I specified that 12 in my question, is that correct? 13 A Yes . 14 Q You don't just as a layman, you wouldn't say 15 that anybody could be confused in those labels, could you? 16 A No. 17 MR. PAULL: Just a moment, please, I move to strike 18 the answer and move to ob ject to the question on the grounds 19 it calls for the conclusion of the witness and instruct 2o the witness not to answer. 21 BY MR. PASAROW: ~ Q You have seen records made by different 23 companies of the same selection before , haven't you, Mr. 24 Patrick? 26 A State that again. 26 Q You have seen records of the same aelection, Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8o: NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 made by different companies before, haven't you? 2 A Of the same number, 11 A Little Bird Told Me"? a Q Not of 11A Little Bird", of any record of any 4 selection. 5 A Yes. 6 Q In other words, you have seen a Capitol record, 7 a Decca reco~d, a Victor record, a Columbia record, a 8 Supreme record, all of the same selection, isn't that 9 correct? 10 A Do you mean of the same type of material? u MR. PASAROW: Well, strike that. 12 MR . PAULL: Of the same tune? 13 BY MR . PASAROW: 14 Q or the same tune, the same selection. 15 A Yes . 16 Q It is common practice in the record business, 17 is it not, for one record eompany to make a selection of a 18 record and then another company come out and make a r ecord 19 of the same selection; isn' t it? 20 A I have seen them do that, but this is the 21 first time I have ever seen them copy a tune practically 22 verbatim. 23 MR . PASAROW: We will move the latter part of that 24 answer be stricken as not responsive to the questions. Read 25 back the questi on and we l'lill get an ans,.,rer, Mr . Reporter. 26 MR . PAULL: I move the answer was responsive. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWM AN -OFFICIAL REPORT ERS 36 1 MR . PASAROW: Read the question back and we'll see if 2 - Mr. Paul l still feels that way. s (The Notary then read back the last question and 4 answer.) 6 MR. PASAROW: I think that question can easily be 6 answered yes or no. 7 Q You are President of a record company and you 8 ought to knm·r that. 9 A The same selection? 10 Q Yes . 11 A You are not speaking of the interpretation? 12 Q The word I used was "selection", Mr. Patrick, 13 and ·that question can be ans1-rered yes or no . 14 A Yes. 16 Q Did you observe any advertisements published 16 by Decca Records of their recording of "A Little Bird Told 17 Me" as sung by Evelyn Knight, being "Plaintiffs' Exhibit B" 18 in the Complaint? 19 A State that again. I want to be sure that I goi 20 it right. 21 Q Did you see any advertisements by Decca Record~ 22 of their recording of "A Little Bird Told Me" as sung by 23 Evelyn Knight? 24 A Yes. 26 Q Where did you see those advertisements? 26 A I saw them -- one, I think, in Billboard Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 37 1 Magazine or Cashbox, I'm not sure which one. 2 Q Do you recall their having at any time mentione~ 8 the Supreme record? 4 A No. 5 Q Of Paula Watson in their advertisement? 6 A No. 7 Q The advertisement alluded strictly to their 8 own product, is that correct? 9 A Yes. 10 Q Do you have copies of that advertisement that 11 you saw? 12 A No . 18 Q Well now, calling your attention to Paragraph 14 12 of this Compla~t '-rhich you signed, Mr. Patrick, I would 15 ·like you to explain what you meant when you alleged.this 16 in your sworn Complaint, that the advertisement, labels, 17 brands and acts of the defendant and each of them are 18 deceiving dealers in records and their customers. What 19 advertisements of Decca Records, Inc. were you alluding to 20 when you made that allegation in your Complaint? 21 A Our interpretation --- 22 Q ·· Now, just a minute, r ead the question over , 28 Mr. Reporter. 24 (Reporter read back the last question.) 25 A I would say that our -- that part of the 26 Complaint was based not on the looks of the records but Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWM AN-OFFICIAL REPORT ERS 1 upon the musical composition itself as it copied ours. 2 Q Well, did any advertisement of Decca Records, s Inc . ever come to your attention which in any way alluded 4 to the Supreme Record of "A. Little Bird Told Me"? 5 A It didn' t have to. 6 Q Well, did you ever see one that did, whether 7 it had to or not? 8 A No, it didn' t. 9 Q All right, did you ever see any label of Decca 1o Records? 11 A No . 12 Q That in any way could have deceived anybody 1s that it was a SUpreme record instead of a Decca record? 14 A No . 15 MR. PAULL: Just a moment, I object to the form of 16 the question. 17 MR. PASAROW: He has already answer ed the question. 18 ~m . PAULL: I move the answer be stricken for the 19 purpose of objecting to the question. 20 MR . PA.SARO\v: What is your objection? 21 MR. PAULL: It calls for the conclusion of thi s 22 witness. 23 MR . PASAROW: No, I asked him whether he saw. That 24 i s not a conclusion. 25 MR . PAUlL: \'Jhether he saw which could deceive as to 20 whether i t could deceive, is call ing for his conclusion. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWM AN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 39 1 MR. PASAR0\11: No, will you repeat the question, Mr. 2 Reporter? s (Reporter read back the last question.) 4 MR. PAULL: Which answer I move to strike for inter- 5 posing my objection. Hold off when I raise my hand here to 6 give me a chance to object, Mr. Patrick. 7 BY MR . PASAROW: 8 Q Do you know of any dealers that purchased a 9 Decca record, thinking that t hey were purchasing a Supreme 10 record, of your own knowledge? 11 A I object :to that on the grounds it calls for th ~ 12 witness to testify of the operation of the mind of other 13 p~rsons. 14 MR . PASAROW: I said that he knows of his own 15 knowledge. He has alleged this in his Complaint. He knew 16 it when he signed the Complaint. He swore, made a sworn 17 statement to that effect. Now, we are trying to find out 18 upon w·hat his allegation is based and we have a perfect 19 right to do that. 20 }ffi. PAULL: I will press my objection, renew my ob 21 jection on the ground that you are asking the witness to 22 t estify to the operation of the mind of a particular dealer . #16 23 BY MR. PASAROW: 24 Q Do you know of any particular dealers, ~~. 25 Patri ck, that bought the Decca record at the time that they 26 thought they were buying the Supreme record? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWM AN-O FFICIAL REPORTERS 4o 1 A I have had them buy Decea records because they ~- 2 we were out of Supreme records. s Q Of "A Little Bird Told Me"? 4 A Yes. 5 Q Do you lmm·T of any other instances? 6 A I was told of a number of instances. 7 Q Do you know of your own kno\'rl edge , Mr. Patrick? 8 A I knm'i of one. 9 Q What was the dealer's name? 10 A I will have to check in the records f or that. 11 Q You do that and let me know, will you? Do you 12 recall when the Decca record was released, the Decca record ·1 a of "A Little Bird Told Me" , do you remember when it \'Tas 14 released, Mr. Patrick? 15 A I don' t knoH the exact qate , but it was after 16 the time that t~. Joe Perry tried to buy the master from me. 17 ~m. PASAROW: We will move that be st ricken as def- 18 initely not being responsive. We ask him for a time and 19 not for any statement. 2o Q Do you know the date that the Decca record 21 was released? 22 A -It was some time after ours was released. 23 Q And t hat is as far as you know , is that cor- 24 r ect? 25 A Yes. 26 Q Were you having trouble , Mr . Patrick, in getting Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 41 1 enough pressings of your record, due to the onrush of 2 orders? 8 A My conversations with Mr. Reiner who was at 4 that time pressing them, which was out of my control, I woulc 5 say yes, he did, because he had to put on two or three 6 plants to try to catch up ,.,ith the demand. 7 Q Mr. Patrick you settled this ease with Capitol 8 Records, didn't you? 9 MR . PAULL: Just a moment, I object to that on the 10 grounds it is entirely irrelevant, incompetent and immateria • 11 BY MR. P A.SAR0\'1: 12 How much money did you receive from that 13 settlement? 14 MR. PAULL: Just a moment, the same objection and 16 on the same grounds. 16 BY MR. PASAROvl: 17 Q Was there an agreement in writing settli ng that 18 case as far as Capitol Records and Supreme is concerned? 19 MR. PAULL: The same objection and on the same ground • 20 BY MR . PA.SAROW: 21 Q Do you have a copy of that agreement? 22 MR. PAULL: The sane objection and on the same ground 23 BY MR. PASAROW: 24 Q Do you have any other copies of the sales recorc s 25 of pres sings, records, Mr. Patrick, that you \·Tere subpoenaed 26 to bring in? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN - OFFICIAl. REPORTERS 42 1 A You have all of them with the exception of those 2 that we said we would bring in. s Q You don't have any copies or pressing orders 4 that you gave out, do you? 5 A That we said '\'le would bring them in. 6 Q You don't do any pressing ,yourself, do you? 7 A No. 8 Q You own no presses? 9 A No. 10 Q You just. hire somebody else to do your pressing 11 for you, is that correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q Did you have a license from the copywright 14 owner to recon:l this song? 15 A Yes. 16 Q Do you have a copy of that license? 17 A I have a copy of it. 18 Q Will you also bring that in? 19 MR. PASAROW: I think that is all. 20 21 CROSS EXAMINATION 22 23 BY MR. PAULL: 24 Q · Mr. Patrick, you were asked to fix the date 25 of release by Decca of the tune, "A Little Bird Told Me", 26 which you were not able to fix specifically, but which you Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL R EPORTERS 1 stated was subsequent to the release of the number by 2 Supreme Records. Are there any cir cumstances that permit s you to fix the dat e of release by Decca as being subsequent 4 to the date of release by Supreme? 6 MR. PASROW: To whieh we'll object on the grounds 6 that he already an~rered~ that question. He saidbe didn't 7 know and would have to check his records. 8 1ffi. PAULL: I'm not asking him for the exact date. 9 Q I asked whether or not there are any circum- 10 stances upon Whieh you can base your recollection that the 11 date of release by ·necca iras subsequent to the date of 12 release by Supreme? 13 A It was some time --- 14 Q Are there any circumstances? 16 A Yes. 16 Q And what are those circumstances? 17 A It was some time after our record was going 18 so strong that a call was placed to me by --- 19 (At this point an off the record discussion -vm:s held. ) 20 !{R. PASAROW: We will continue this deposition to 21 Tuesday, February 14, 1950, at the hour of 10:00 o'clock 22 A.M. Instruct the witness to appear at that time, Mr. 23 Reporter. 24 BY TEE REPORTER: Mr. Patrick, I instruct you to 26 appear back here at this office on Tuesday, February 14, 26 1950, at the hour of 10:00 o'clock A.M. for the further Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 taking of your deposition '\vithout further notice, and to 2 bring with you the documents as previously requested-by 8 Mr. Pasarow. 4 MR. PAUlL: Now, will you continue '\vith your answer? 6 A I received a telephone call from ~tlke Gould 6 from Bourne Music, telling me --- 7 MR. PA.SARmv: J"ust a minute, '\ore \-rill move ·that the 8 answer be stricken on the grounds that it is hearsay. 9 BY l-ffi. PAULL: 10 Q Were there any direct communications that you 11 received from Decca? 12 MR. PASA.Rmv: Now, just a minute, Mr. Paull, th:J_s is 13 your witness no'\or and you are asking him leading questions. 14 MR. PAULL: I'll '\·rithdra'\or it. Okay, no further 15 questions. 16 1-ffi. PASAROVI: I'll stipulate that the deposition can 17 be signed before any Notary Public. 18 MR . PAULL: Yes, so stipulated. 19 20 (At this point the deposition was adjourned) 21 22 23 ---oOo--- 24 26 26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 The following is a continuation of the deposition of Mr. 2 Albert Patrick, taken on behalf of the defendants, on s Tuesday, February 14, 1950, at 403 West Eighth Street, 4 Los Angeles, California, at the hour of 10:35 A.M. ~~. 5 Jacob Paull was present as attorney for Supreme Records 6 and Hr. Averill Pasarow was present as attorney for Decca 7 Records. Mr. Maidman was not present at this session. 8 9 BY TEE REPORTER: You are reminded that you are still 10 under oath? 11 BY THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 13 CONTINUATION OF DIRECT EXAMINATION 14 . 16 BY MR. PASARO\v: 16 Q Mr . Patric~you know this is a continuation 17 of the deposition which we started approximately a week ago 18 and you understand that you are still under oath? 19 A Yes. 20 Q Mr. Patrick, have you been able to obtain 21 for us the total number of sales of the the Supreme record 22 of 1tA Little Bird Told Me 11 for the month or February? ~ A Yes. 24 Q And what are those figures? 26 (Witness examines document.) 26 .HR. PAULL: Mr. Patrick, the paper I gave you are Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside A B KIN 8c NEWMA N - OFFIC IAL R EPORTERS 46 1 pressing charges as I see now and are not a record of 2 records sold which is covered by this sheet (indicating s document) • 4 (At this point an off the record discussion was held.D 5 A Nine thousand, seven hundred and forty. 6 BY MR. PASARm\f: 7 Q And is that figure of 9,740 the total of record~ 8 sold. by Black & White during the month of February of 9 Supreme 1 s "A Little Bird Told Me"? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And you have taken that figure from those 12 records, is that correct? 13 A From.the Black & White records, yes. u Q vlhen did Supreme Records start selling "A 15 Little Bird Told Me" on its own without the distribution 16 facilities of Black & vlhite? 17 Just a minute, I want to get this straight 18 now. 19 (The witness examines documents.) 20 A According to our boOkkeeper's statement here, 21 we have here from the 25th to the 30th of February, 494 22 records. 23 Q Those were sold by Supreme Records? 24 A Yes. 25 Q And those are in addition to the records sold 26 by Black & White, is that corr ect? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 47 1 A Yes. 2 Q Do you have any figures for the month of a March? 4 A 3-15 t o 5..:4. 5 MR . PAULL: 1949? 6 A Yes, 44o. 7 BY MR. PA.S ARO\.J: 8 Q V.Tait a minute , just a noment, Mr . Patrick. 9 Didn't you just tell us you sold 44o in the short period 10 at the end of February? 11 A We sold from February 25th to --- 12 Q To February 30th? 13 A No-, pardon me . 14 Q That is "!hat you told us before? 15 A March 30th, 2-25 to 3-30, we sold 494. From 16 3-15 to 5-4 , we sold 411-0 . 17 Q What happened between the period of -- aren't 18 those overlapping periods there? 19 MR . P!ULL: One is an overlapping period from 20 F~bruary 25th to V~rch 30th, is an over lapping period with 21 Black & \'lh:tt e, yes . You see, it was during that period thei~ 22 was a question concerning who had the right to sell t hose #17 23 records. We undertook to sell directly , contending there 24 was a breach of contract on Black & White's part, and 25 Black & Whi t e was xesist ing our contention that t here had 26 been a breach, and they were cont inuing to sell, and Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 48 1 during the period when the temporary Restr aining Order was 2 in effect, they resisted from selling, but we continued to s sell. We do have an overlapping period due to that 4 fact . 6 Q Then from 5-5 to 5-30, thirty records. 6 BY MR. PASAR0\11: 7 Q You mean Hay 5th to May 30th, isn' t that right? 8 A Yes • 9 Q .And '\vhat about June 1st to June 30th? 10 (At this point an off the record discussion '\'Tas held. D .11 Q 1~ . Patrick, what is that card that you are 12 reading from? · 1s .A That is our royalty statements on "A Little 14 Bird Told Me" . 16 Q Now, l~ . Patrick, does this royalty statement 16 represent the total number of records sold? 17 A Just a moment here , these figures here are 18 the number of records that we sold after we broke away from 19 Black & vfuite. These here, from here do~m, these are Black ~ 20 'v.hite records there (indicating). The top figure there is 1 21 Black & White s figures. The bottom ones dmm her e are all 22 the ones that we sold. In other words, the tune was just 23 about at the time we got a-hold of it, it just died right 24 off to nothing. 25 Q What is this item here , records sold in 1948, 26 71,663? . Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL R EPORTERS 1 A Those were the records that were sold by Black ~ 2 White. 8 Q Didn't they sell more than 71,663 records? 4 A I would have to check with the bookkeeper on 6 that. 6 Q So that you don't know that this is an accurate · 7 figure? 8 A No, I don' t . You have the other -- you have s the complete records over t here. 10 Q \tJhere did you get the figures that \'.'en.t on 11 this card? 12 A From the boolffieeper·, and these came from our 13 records of records sold. In other words, this is what we 14 paid the royalties. 16 Q That doesn' t necessarily mean those are all 16 the records you sold, does it, Mr . Patrick? 17 A Yes, these are all t he records that we sold. 18 MR. PAULL: You mean that is subsequent to the 19 period of Februa~y, 1949? 20 A Yes. 21 BY MR . PASAROW: 22 Q Now, have you sold any records of "A Little 23 Bird Told Me" since July 1, 1949? 24 A The bookkeeper vras discussing this with me 26 this morning and he stated that any records that we have 26 sold·, even these recorci> in here --- Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 50 • 1 Q Well now, Mr. Patrick , as you understand, 2 what your bookkeeper told you, of course, is not admissible 8 in evidence because it would violste what we call the hear 4 say rule. 5 A Well, that is the only way I would know is 6 going by what he said. 7 Q What do you have on that card there from and 8 after Jul y 1, 1949 indicating sales of Supreme' s "A Little 9 Bird Told Me". by Supreme records? 10 A We have 112 records sold af t er -- in fact, 11 in July we didn' t sell any at all. 12 Q Well, regardl ess of the month, Mr . Patrick, 13 after July 1, 1949 did you sell any Supreme r ecords of "A 14 Little Bird Told Me " . 15 A We have 112 sold here from that period on. 16 Q Now , did you have anydher agency or distribu- 17 tion firm selling these records for you? 18 A. Other than our regular distributors whi ch 19 we would know about and would be r eported - - - 20 Q Who are your regular distribut ors? 21 A Oh, God, we have over thirty of them. 22 Q And how long have you had those distributors? 23 A Ever since vre were distributing on our own, 24 since February of 1 49 . 25 Q Are they located onl y in this country? 26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 51 1 A Yes . 2 Q You have no foreign distribution at all? 8 A We have none, no. Black & White had but we 4 don't. 6 Q They had it in Canada, is that correct? 6 A Yes. 7 Q They didn't sell in any other country that s you know of? 9 A Not that I know of. Our bookkeeper stated 10 these were included in the amount that he gave you original~r 11 the other day because some of these sales were made from 12 five per cent returns. 13 Q Mr . Patrick, from your experience in the 14 record business, how long would you say is the average high 15 sale run of a phonograph record in the classification of 16 Paula Watson's "A Little Bird Told Me"? 17 MR . PAULL: Just a moment, I object to that on the 18 grounds that it is a question which is not capable of 19 being answered because there are variations in tunes and 20 differences in tunes. 21 MR . PlSAROW: . Well 22 MR . PAULL: Evenwmre --- 23 MR. PASAROW: From his experience. 24 MR. PAULL: Evenenre recorded by the same artist. 25 MR. PASAROW: Well, we are just asking him from his 26 experience. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWM AN-OFF IC IAL REPORT ERS 5'2 1 MR . P~ULL: Do you want to ask the witness concerning 2 s MR . PASAROW: He is the President of a record 4 company. 5 MR. PAULL: Do you want to ask him what his opinion 6 i s ·, what would be the run of this tune that you are 7 speaking of as Paula Watson is the artist, based upon the 8 experience he had in sales during any particular months, 9 then I will permit him to ans,oTer that? 10 MR . PAS.AROW: His opinion doesn't mean anything in 11 vie'toT of what \1e already know as to ~hat its run ~ras. I 12 am trying to compare this run with other runs . 13 MR . PAULL: I submit that is an improper question and 14 no relevancy. 15 MR. PASAROW: We will prove it otherwise so it 16 doesn' t make any difference. 17 Q Mr. Patrick, you were asked to bring with you 18 a copy of your license to record this song. Do you have 19 that with you? 20 ~ No, but as I said, I ' ll send you a photostatic 21 copy of it. 22 Q And will you send that '"hen? When will you 23 send that to me? 24 A Just as soon as I can, just immediately, as 25 quick as I can. 26 MR. PAULL: May I suggest you send it to me and I Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c N EWMAN -OFFICIA L REPO RT ERS 53 1 will transmit it to Mr. Pasarow? 2 BY MR. PASAROW: 8 Q By the way, is Harvey Brooks. in your employ 4 at the pr esent time? 6 .A No, he has never been i n my employ. 6 Q I am just asking '\ '1 at the present time? 8 A No. 9 Q How long have you kno'\ 10 Patrick? 11 A The first time I met Harvey Brooks wm when 12 we got this tune from him. 18 Q You had never seen him before in your life? 14 A. Not that I can recal l. 16 Q Have you seen him si nce? 16 A Yes . 1'1 Q About how many times have you seen him since 1s you first recorded this song? 19 A Oh, I couldn't say how many times I have seen 20 him. I have seen him numerous times. 21 Q He cones over to your place of business? 22 A Yes. 28 Q Would you say that you were friendly with 24 him? 26 A Yes. 26 Q After you severed relationship with Black & Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 1 \ihite Distributors, who did your pressing for you? 2 A Duroaflex in Long Beach. s MR. PAULL: Well --- 4 MR. PASAROW: Wait a minute now, he is testifying. 6 MR. PAULL: He said -- he answered that last time, 6 too. It is a repetitious question. 7 MR. PASAROW: I never asked him that question s before. 9 MR. PAULL: You did. 10 (At this point an off the record discussion was held.) 11 BY MR. PASA.ROW: 12 Q How· did you order those records, by pressing 1s orders? 14 A Yes. 16 Q Do you have copies of those pressing orders? 16 A We have no copies of pressing orders on 11 A 17 Little Bird" due to the fact that in checking with our 18 bookkeeper he said we didn't get any of those pressed. 19 Q That yellow sheet? 20 A You are talking about Black & White statement? 21 Q Did they do pressing for you, too? 22 MR. PAULL: Not after February. 23 A -Not after February. 24 BY MR. PASAROW: 26 Q Do you know how many of these records you 26 ordered from Duroaflex and Empire? Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORT ERS 55 1 A. We didn't order any of those records from Empire 2 or Duroafl ex. s Q Where did you get the records to sell, Mr. 4 Patrick? 6 A Records were turned over to us by Bl ack & 6 White. 7 Q How many r ecords were turned over to you by 8 Black & White? 9 A At least three thousand of them. 10 Q And when were they turned over, sir? 11 A 1~en did we have that set ~lement? 12 MR. PAULL: March 30th. 13 A Sometime around April, the majority of those 14 records were turned over to us and '"e ground them up for 16 scrap. Ho~rever, we had some on hand in our stor e t hat we 16 were distributing out of - - through there at our location 17 we were distributing the records out of that location. 18 BY MR. PASAROW: 19 Q Do you sell records at retail a t your place 20 of business? 21 A No, we sold them wholesale. 22 Q What was the vrholesale price of "A Little 2s Bird Told Me"? 24 A The wholesale price t o a dist ributor or t o - - 26 Q Yes, to distributors. 26 A According to Black & White f i gures I believe Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL R E PO RTERS 1 it was thirty-seven-point-one-t,oTo-:five. 2 Q Thirty-seven-point-one-two-:five per record? 8 A Yes. #18 4 Q And that was the price that Blaclr & Wh1 te sold 5 -- you sold the records to Black & White or did Black & 6 White sell the records to other distributors? 7 A Black & White sold the records to other dis- 8 tributors. 9 Q And what was the price of each record to a 10 retail dealer? 11 A I believe it was :forty-nine. 12 Q Forty-nine cents? 13 A Yes, I believe that is the price. 14 Q Did Black & White to yourknowledge made any 15 discount deals o:f any kind on this record with any o:f their 16 sub-distributors or retail dealers? 17 A Tnat I don't know. 18 Q Do you know whether they made any quantity 19 price with them? 20 A That I don't know. 21 Q After you took over the distribution of the 22 record, which was sometime in the month of March, as I . 23 understand, what was the price that you sold the record 24 to your distributors? 25 A Our p~ce is thirty-seven-point-one-two-:five. 26 Q And what was the price that you sold it to Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPO RTERS 57 1 retail dealers directly? 2 A Forty-nine. 8 Q Did you sell any directly to retail dealers 4 yourself? 15 A We sold these here, yes. 6 Q The numbers which you gave me, 494 --- 7 A I don't know how the breakdown -- how many of s these were sold as to distributors or how many to dealers. 9 This is just the total amount. 10 Q Do you have those records in your place of 11 business? 12 ~ Yes. 13 Q Would you have those records available at 14 the time of trial? ~ A Yes, sir. 16 Q Do you know how much each record cost you to 17 manufacture including the pressing and label? 1s A It varies. It runs around about fifteen to 19 sixteen, seventeen cents, including labeling, stampers and 20 everything. 21 Q That doesn't include any overhead charges or 22 charges for sales or anything of that nature? 23 A No. 24 Q Or royalties? 25 A No. 26 Q Have you ever had your accountant break down Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archi ves at Riverside ASK I N & NEWMAN-O FFICIAL REPO RTER S 58 1 the actual cost per record to you? 2 A Yes. s Q And what is that cost per record to you includ- 4 ing all charges? 5 A You mean what would be our gross prof it? 6 Q Yes . 7 A Between ten and twelve cents a record. 8 Q That is your gross profit? 9 A Yes. 10 Q And from that gross profit what items are 11 deducted to det ermi ne your net profit? 12 A Oh, rent, salaries. 13 Q Your administrative overhead? 14 A Yes. 15 Q And do you have 16 A Advertising. 17 Q Do you have any idea what the figures were on 18 that? 19 A Not of:f"hand. It would vary according to 20 our volume .of business. On a per record basis it would be 21 very hard to determine because you have a certain overhead 22 anyway and then your advertising would be shifted back and 23 forth depending on how.much promotion--- 24 Q How much money did you pay the Black & White 25 .for promotion? 2 6 A I would have to check my books on that. Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN & NEWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 5'9 1 Q Do your books show that? 2 A Yes, it would show it. s Q Will you have your books and records available 4 at the time of trial? 5 A Yes. 6 Q So that we can go into them? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Are you still in the record business, Mr. 9 Patrick? 10 A Yes. 11 Q And are you still located at the Jefferson 12 Boulevard address? 13 A 4~5'3 South Main. 14 Q Do you do any of your own pressing at all? 15 A No. 16 MR . PASAROW: I think that is all I have. 17 MR. PAULL: No questions . 18 MR. PASAROW: We already stipulated that the deposi- 19 tion can be signed before any Notary Public. 2o MR . PA.ULL: Yes. 21 22 23 24 26 26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ABKIN 8c NEWMAN-OFFICIAL REPORTERS 60 1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) ) ss. 2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES) s I, , a Notary Public 4 in and .for the County of Los Angeles, State of California, 5 do hereby certify: f 6 7 That on the ___day of ______, 195'0, 8 before me personally appeared ALBERT PATRICK, the 9 witness whose deposition appears hereinbefore; 10 That the said witness was by me first duly advised 11 of the right to make such changes and corrections in t he 12 within transcript as might be necessary in order to render 13 the same true and correct; 14 That the said witness stated to me that the said 16 deposition had been read to or by him, and he, having made 16 such changes and corrections as he desired, thereupon sub 17 scribed and swore to the said deposition in my presence; 18 19 IN WITNESS \llEEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed my 20 name and affixed my seal of office the date hereinabove 21 written. 22 23 Notary Pubiic in and for the County 24 of Los Angeles, State of California 25 26 Reproduced from the holdings of the National Archives at Riverside ASKIN 8c N EWMAN -OFFICIAL REPORTERS 61 1 STATE OF CAL !FORNI A ) ) ss . 2 COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES) 8 I, David Newman, a Notary Public in and for the 4 County of Los Angeles, State of Californi~hereby certify: 6 That Albert Patrick, the wit ness named in the fore 6 going deposition, personally appeared before me at the 7 hour of 12:00 o'clock noon on Friday, February 3, 1950 , at 8 Room 518 Garfield Building, 403 vlest 8th Street, in the City 9 and County of Los Angeles, State of California, at which 10 time and place said witness vras , before testifying, by me 11 duly sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth and nothing 12 but the truth in relation to said cause now pending in said 13 Court; that said deposition was cont inued to Tuesday, 14 February 14, 1950, at 10:35 A. M.; that said deposition was 16 by me then and there written down in Stenotype writing and 16 was thereafter transcribed into typewriting under my persona 17 direction and supervision, and that the foregoing sixty page 18 of typewritten matter comprise a full, true and correct 19 transcript of . said deposition. 20 I further certify that I am in novrise interested in 21 the event of said suit. 22 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto subscribed my 23 name and affixed my seal of office this ~o( ~Y of ~· 1970. 25 26