Page 1 DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA + + + + + ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE CONTROL BOARD + + + + + MEETING
þ------» IN THE MATTER OF: : : Al's Market, LLC : t/a Compass Rose : 1346 T Street, NW : Protest Retailer CT : Hearing License No. 91140 : Case No. 12-PRO-00006 : ANC 1B : New Application : þ------¼
MAY 1, 2013
The Alcoholic Beverage Control Board met in the Alcoholic Beverage Control Hearing Room, Reeves Building, 2000 14th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., Ruthanne Miller, Chairperson, presiding.
PRESENT RUTHANNE MILLER, Chairperson DONALD BROOKS, Member HERMAN JONES, Member MICHAEL SILVERSTEIN, Member
ALSO PRESENT FELICIA MARTIN, ABRA
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 2 T-A-B-L-E O-F C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S
Opening Statement for the Applicant . . . . . 38
Opening Statement for the Protestants . . . . 40
Closing Statement for the Applicant . . . . .315
Closing Statement for the Protestants . . . .317
WITNESSES
Felicia Martin...... 42
Shawn Suiter...... 91
Rosalind Cohen...... 127
Rose Previte...... 135
Michael Schuster...... 219
Ron Renchard...... 275
EXHIBITS
Applicant's
1 Drawings for proposed establishment . . . .138
2 Proposed menu ...... 151
3 Letters of support...... 170
4 Letter from ANC Commissioner...... 272
5 Photographs of summer garden...... 178
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S
2 4:58 p.m.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. We
4 know that the rest of you are here for a
5 protest hearing, Compass Rose. And the Board
6 would like to take a 10-minute break before we
7 start your hearing so that we come back fresh
8 for your hearing. So you're welcome to come
9 and go, you know, in the next 10 minutes as
10 well.
11 Okay. Thank you.
12 (Whereupon, at 4:58 p.m. off the
13 record until 5:32 p.m.)
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Sorry to keep
15 you all waiting. We had a little business we
16 had to attend to before the close of business
17 today. So now we are ready to give you our
18 undivided attention.
19 All right. This is a protest
20 hearing in Case No. 13-PRO-00006, Compass Rose
21 located at 1346 T Street, N.W., License No.
22 91140 in ANC 1B.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 4 1 All right. Why don't we start
2 with introductions of the parties?
3 MR. KLINE: Yes. Good afternoon,
4 Madam Chair and Members of the Board. Andrew
5 Kline on behalf of the Applicant.
6 MS. PREVITE: I'm Rose Previte.
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Mike Schuster.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
9 MR. KLINE: And Ms. Previte and
10 Mr. Schuster are principals of the Applicant.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Good
13 afternoon. I'm Felicia Martin, investigator
14 with ABRA.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
16 MR. RENCHARD: Good afternoon. My
17 name is Ron Renchard. I'm abutting property
18 owner.
19 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I'm sorry,
20 sir?
21 MR. RENCHARD: Name is Renchard,
22 R-E-N-C-H-A-R-D. Abutting property owner.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 5 1 There is a point of clarification. In Mrs.
2 Martin's presentation she listed that I am an
3 abutting property owner and I'm protesting on
4 the grounds of over-concentration of liquor
5 licenses. I'd like to have that changed
6 because in my protest letter I state I am
7 protesting on the interference of peace, order
8 and quiet, not over-concentration.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
10 MR. RENCHARD: And a second point
11 here as well, I have two witnesses and your
12 counsel has suggested I mention them and have
13 them so you know who they are. Erl Bailey,
14 and there is a German Jamais; I'm sorry, I may
15 be pronouncing the name wrong, who live in the
16 neighborhood. But you will have reference of
17 those.
18 And I have some handouts here.
19 Should I just give them now to everybody or --
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, no.
21 Why don't you just explain what you have
22 and --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 6 1 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, yes. Sure.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- we'll deal
3 with it when it's --
4 MR. RENCHARD: Basically they're
5 the same handouts I express on my PIF file.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
7 MR. RENCHARD: The exhibits. What
8 they are basically is the exhibit of the area
9 of the -- is the Zoning Board area lot, as
10 well as the business information of the
11 establishment, and the neighborhood ABC
12 licenses.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
14 MR. RENCHARD: Three sets.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: When it's
16 your turn to present your case, then --
17 MR. RENCHARD: Fine.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- we'll deal
19 with those. Okay. And your witnesses are
20 going to speak to peace, order, quiet, or
21 what?
22 MR. RENCHARD: They're going to be
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 7 1 speaking to zoning.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Zoning?
3 Okay.
4 MR. RENCHARD: I'm not going to
5 speak to zoning. And they're going to speak
6 to the Applicant's license as well. I'm not
7 going to speak to that. I'm going to speak to
8 the peace, order, quietness as it concerns to
9 me.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Me only.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. As the
13 abutting property owner. Yes.
14 MR. RENCHARD: Okay?
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And,
16 Mr. Kline, how many witnesses are you going to
17 have?
18 MR. KLINE: Madam Chair, before we
19 get to that, I would note that neither of
20 these two witnesses have been listed on the
21 Protest Information Form. This comes as a
22 surprise to us. The only witness listed on
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 8 1 the Protest Information Form is the Protestant
2 himself.
3 And then the other issue is if
4 they're here to speak about zoning, I think
5 they're in the wrong forum. We have a Board
6 of Zoning Adjustment, which I know the Chair
7 is very familiar with.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I like that
9 area, yes.
10 (Laughter.)
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: But go ahead.
12 MR. KLINE: Well, you may, but
13 hopefully that's not what we're going to be
14 talking about today.
15 (Laughter.)
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
17 MR. KLINE: So it would seem
18 between those two issues we would ask the
19 Board to limit the testimony to, number one,
20 what was disclosed on the PIF, and number two,
21 to issues that are relevant to this proceeding
22 which concerns the approval of a Class CT
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 9 1 alcoholic beverage license.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, Mr.
3 Renchard, let me ask you why these witnesses
4 weren't on your PIF.
5 MR. RENCHARD: It's my fault,
6 ma'am. I overlooked it completely It's going
7 to state very clearly on your form, but I
8 realized that they had the information which
9 I do not have. And instead of having a
10 duplication or rambling, I thought it would be
11 far better to have those individuals speak on
12 this subject matter.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And --
14 MR. RENCHARD: And the reason is
15 because we think this is part of the concern
16 of 1346 T Street.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did you
18 identify other witnesses on your PIF? I'm
19 trying to find that right now.
20 MR. RENCHARD: No, ma'am, I did
21 not.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You didn't
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 10 1 identify any?
2 MR. RENCHARD: Did not, ma'am.
3 MR. KLINE: Madam Chair, he
4 identified himself as a witness.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I
6 think I want to wait on this and then get a
7 proffer and then decide, rather than just base
8 -- just hearing the word "zoning" throwing
9 them out. So I was asking because I just want
10 to see also if anyone wants to invoke the rule
11 on witnesses, which means if one party's
12 witnesses hears another party's witnesses,
13 they may change their testimony or something.
14 So therefore, they'd ask for the person to be
15 out of the room. Do we have that issue here?
16 MR. KLINE: Madam Chair, I had not
17 intended to invoke the rule on witnesses, but
18 if it's the Board's position that these two
19 unlisted witnesses may be testifying, I may
20 wish to rethink that. I mean coming into this
21 hearing it was not my intention to invoke a
22 rule on witnesses. So we would ask for a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 11 1 ruling as to whether, despite the fact that
2 these witnesses haven't been listed on the
3 PIF, the Board's going to allow them to
4 testify.
5 And we ask the Board to take into
6 account whether the proffer that's been made
7 -- they really don't have any relevant
8 testimony to add if they're going to testify
9 about zoning. And I would ask that the Board
10 take that into account, because I know the
11 Board may say, well, they missed the PIF. No
12 big deal. But we think that you should also
13 look at what it is they're going to testify
14 to. And if it's about zoning, they're in the
15 wrong forum.
16 MR. RENCHARD: I wish to have a
17 comment on that subject.
18 (No audible response.)
19 MR. RENCHARD: I wish to comment
20 on that subject, because in my form, Protest
21 Information Form, I do mention zoning and I do
22 mention clarity so far as their form is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 12 1 concerned as well. Application. I do mention
2 those two subjects.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I had
4 begun to go down the path of putting this off
5 until we got to your case, however, if this is
6 going to affect the rule on witnesses --
7 you're saying, Mr. Kline, because your party
8 would be testifying first that those witnesses
9 could be influenced by the testimony of your
10 witnesses?
11 MR. KLINE: Absolutely. I mean
12 it's not normally my desire to see citizens,
13 particularly people that live in the
14 neighborhood, sit in the hallway.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right.
16 Exactly.
17 MR. KLINE: But in this case I
18 might invoke it.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And are you
20 invoking it because you don't know enough
21 about what they're going to testify to if they
22 even are going to testify, in which case we
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 13 1 can go right into having him proffer now.
2 MR. KLINE: We would ask for the
3 proffer. I mean if they're not going to
4 testify to anything relevant --
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Why
6 don't we deal with it now?
7 MR. KLINE: -- we would ask that
8 they be excluded on that ground in addition to
9 the ground that they're not listed on the PIF,
10 which we assert anyway.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
12 Let's have a proffer then. If you understand,
13 I was saying that I don't feel that -- there's
14 the one issue is they weren't on the PIF, but
15 separate from that -- first of all, what is
16 the reason they weren't on the PIF? You don't
17 think of it early enough? Is that what you're
18 saying?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Right, that's the
20 honest truth. I put the subjects, but I did
21 not put their names.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 14 1 number two, which is a more important issue,
2 is to I guess at this point hear a proffer as
3 to what they will testify to so we can
4 determine, number one, if they are allowed to
5 be witnesses, whether they need to go outside
6 of this hearing room so that they don't hear
7 the testimony of the Applicant's witnesses.
8 And then number two, at this point then we
9 might as well determine whether or not the
10 Board will allow them to be witnesses.
11 So if you could tell us --
12 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- in general
14 what each witness would testify to.
15 MR. RENCHARD: What they would be
16 discussing is what I put in my exhibits. One
17 of them will be discussing the hearing as it
18 relates the building itself, 1346. And it's
19 a four-page presentation on why this building
20 is incumbent based under the new proposed
21 zoning which is going to be coming up later in
22 June. Details, I am not familiar with because
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 15 1 I'm not that knowledgeable.
2 The other gentleman is going to be
3 talking about the business plan. In the
4 business plan it states clearly certain
5 points, and I have them on my exhibit. And
6 I'd like to present them because that shows
7 what the kernel of his discussion is. Both of
8 these people are knowledgeable on the facts
9 that they have. I'm not knowledgeable on
10 them. I'm only knowledgeable as abutting
11 property owner based on peace, order and quiet
12 as it concerns me.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The business
14 plan?
15 MR. RENCHARD: The business
16 information. Beg your pardon, ma'am. It's
17 the business information that you have in the
18 presentation put together by your staff.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: But does that
20 go to the use of the building? I mean why --
21 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 16 1 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, it does.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And that use
3 impacting the peace, order and quiet?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And the
6 zoning issue, does that go to plans that the
7 Office of Planning is -- the proposed
8 regulations that are coming down the road?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You want to
11 come -- I'm sorry. Okay. Introduce
12 yourselves for the record.
13 MR. JIMENEZ: My name is Herman
14 Jimenez. I'm not an abutting property owner,
15 but I live in the neighbor. And there's a
16 Board of Zoning Adjustment appeal on the
17 interpretation with respect to this property
18 in terms of the use and that they erred in
19 granting the Certificate of Occupancy as a
20 tavern.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: As a what?
22 MR. JIMENEZ: Tavern.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 17 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Tavern?
2 MR. JIMENEZ: Yes.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
4 MR. KLINE: And we're happy to
5 hear Mr. Jimenez at the zoning hearing in
6 June.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
8 MR. KLINE: But not tonight.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So,
10 Mr. Kline, that's the proffers of the two.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you want
13 to address why that's not either relevant or
14 -- I mean why you would object, if you do?
15 MR. KLINE: Yes. This application
16 was filed under 23 DCMR 405.1, which provides
17 that the Board can consider and approve an
18 application, but not issue the license unless
19 and until there's a Certificate of Occupancy
20 and a business license.
21 The issues as to whether there is
22 a Certificate of Occupancy, whether it's been
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 18 1 properly issued, are well beyond the
2 jurisdiction of this Board, which will look at
3 the rubric under the statute; peace, order and
4 quiet, over-concentration, parking, etcetera.
5 And this is simply not one of the issues that
6 this Board is charged with deciding. It's an
7 issue that is left to, in the first instance,
8 the Zoning Administrator, in the second
9 instance the Board of Zoning Adjustment, if
10 there is a timely appeal of the Zoning
11 Administrator's decision. So that's with
12 respect to that issue.
13 With respect to the other issue,
14 I'm a little unclear as to exactly what it is
15 that is being proffered. Something about the
16 Business and Premise information Form, which
17 you have in your files, so I really don't know
18 what a witness could add to that at this point
19 and we would reiterate our position given that
20 they weren't listed on the PIF. And the fact
21 that issues from the PIF were raised, that
22 does not make those issues relevant for this
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 19 1 proceeding.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I
3 would say this and see how other Board Members
4 feel: The zoning issue, I think that the
5 Board can take judicial notice if there is an
6 appeal pending before the court of appeals.
7 And I don't see that any testimony to that
8 effect would be relevant to our hearing here
9 on peace, order and quiet. So we can take
10 judicial notice of that pending appeal.
11 With respect to the business plan,
12 I don't understand that really at this point,
13 and so maybe we can clarify it. It seems to
14 me if they have a business plan and you want
15 to cross-examine the parties about it or
16 something, that I can understand. I don't
17 understand how there would be an outside
18 witness testifying to somebody else's business
19 plan. Unless you can answer that, I would
20 say; also the fact that they weren't
21 identified on the PIF, I don't see any
22 compelling reason to let them testify.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 20 1 MR. RENCHARD: My point is that on
2 their business information that they provided,
3 which you have in your docket already, there
4 are discrepancies which they made. And we
5 feel that these are the same type of
6 discrepancies that need to be clarified. And
7 that's the purpose of me bringing the
8 individual Erl Bailey here, so he can ask
9 these questions. Because --
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
11 MR. RENCHARD: -- we're curious
12 for two reasons: He also represents the
13 neighborhood, which in turn is unable to
14 communicate because of the ANC.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So let
16 me ask you this then: It sounds to me like
17 what you just said is that there's somebody
18 who has a better understanding of business
19 plans than you do and you would like that
20 person to be able to ask questions. That's
21 different from testifying.
22 MR. RENCHARD: That's correct.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 21 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Then I
2 would be amenable to that. And if Board
3 Members feel otherwise, the ruling -- okay.
4 my proposal would be that we do not allow
5 these individuals to testify. They weren't on
6 the PIF. And from what I've heard, their
7 testimony really wouldn't be relevant to the
8 issues, but that one person is more qualified
9 to ask questions than Mr. Renchard. I don't
10 see a problem with allowing him to ask the
11 questions on the business plan.
12 Yes, Mr. Jones?
13 MEMBER JONES: I have a concern
14 with that just based on the precedents that
15 we've set and established in previous hearings
16 of this nature. We typically identify one and
17 only one individual to represent the
18 protestant party and allow that one person to
19 ask questions. We typically enforce that
20 pretty stringently in terms of if there's
21 another individual that wishes to ask
22 questions, that question has to be passed to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 22 1 the lead person that has been identified and
2 designated at the beginning so that they don't
3 have multiple individuals asking multiple
4 questions throughout the process. It's
5 intended to help streamline, clarify and make
6 it more fair.
7 So the indication and the
8 implication that this individual will be
9 allowed to ask questions I think is not in
10 line with the precedents that we've
11 established and the practice that we've
12 implemented in previous hearings of this
13 nature.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well --
15 MEMBER JONES: So I would have a
16 concern regarding that.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I
18 would say that there is no rule to that effect
19 and that we have a situation here where we
20 have one side represented by an attorney and
21 another side not represented by an attorney,
22 but with someone who has some expertise in one
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 23 1 finite area. And I think that we have made
2 exceptions to that rule and made it every
3 strict as to a specific area od questions.
4 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Well, I will
5 excuse myself from this hearing in the
6 interest of being fair to other people in
7 other hearings that we had related to this in
8 the past.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
10 MEMBER JONES: So, thank you.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
12 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Madam Chair?
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes?
14 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I have some
15 concerns here. First with the Protestant's
16 comment that the neighborhood is unable to be
17 heard because these two people who are not
18 elected to anything somehow have the right to
19 speak when the ANC, all of whom are elected,
20 did. That comment is quite frankly an insult
21 to democracy.
22 Second of all, I do have a concern
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 24 1 here that the two gentlemen who wish to
2 testify, or at least the one who wishes to ask
3 questions, were part of a group that was
4 subsumed by an ANC settlement agreement. I
5 would be very cautious of any back-door
6 attempt to get around the omnibus legislation
7 that brought that into law. As such, I would
8 be very careful with anything along these
9 lines. What we are doing here, this is the
10 first case that has involved these legal
11 issues since the Omnibus Bill came into law.
12 I would be very careful with any precedent
13 that we set, Madam Chair. This is serious
14 business.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Any other
16 comments?
17 (No audible response.)
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Any comments
19 from Applicant?
20 MR. KLINE: No, I would echo the
21 concerns raised by Mr. Silverstein and was
22 going to raise as a housekeeping matter
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 25 1 exactly the parties that we have, because we
2 don't have a record on that at this point.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's right.
4 I was going to get to that next.
5 MR. KLINE: But I would certainly
6 -- I share Mr. Silverstein's concerns and
7 appreciate him raising those, because I have
8 the same concerns. And with the parties that
9 were parties and they have been dismissed or
10 will be dismissed shortly and then to back
11 door and come in and say, oh, we're going to
12 participate anyway in the hearing and cross-
13 examine the Applicant's witnesses, that seems
14 to be completely improper.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So it's your
16 position that; I don't remember his name, but
17 the person with expertise in --
18 MR. RENCHARD: Mr. Bailey.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- Mr. Bailey
20 -- feed questions to Mr. Renchard, that that
21 would streamline the process and make for a
22 more efficient hearing?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 26 1 MR. KLINE: I think the issue is
2 who participates in the hearing and who
3 represents. I also agree with Mr. Jones. I
4 believe it has been the Board's practice to
5 have one representative. And if Mr. Renchard
6 wants Mr. Bailey to be his representative,
7 fine. He has the right to designate whoever
8 he wants. But in terms of switching back and
9 forth, I --
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay. I
11 wasn't talking about switching back and forth.
12 I was talking about one specific line of
13 questioning, and we've done that in the past.
14 So unless I'm going to be overruled by my
15 Board Members, I think that that's the most
16 efficient way to proceed, with him just having
17 that finite area. And it would not be
18 duplicated by Mr. Renchard. He could not ask
19 any questions on it.
20 Yes, you want to say something
21 else?
22 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Mr. Kline
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 27 1 does bring up a point that Mr. Renchard is
2 entitled to non-legal representation as the
3 Applicants have. And if he wished to choose
4 a non-legal representative, he has that right.
5 Or a legal representative, he has that right.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. All
7 right. As presiding officer, then I'm going
8 to move this along and --
9 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I apologize.
10 Non-attorney representative.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. All
12 right. That's going to be my ruling. Both
13 witnesses cannot testify, but Mr. Bailey can
14 question on that finite area of a business
15 plan.
16 I want to address the preliminary
17 issue --
18 MEMBER JONES: You mentioned
19 earlier that the Board Members may or may not
20 overrule you. You didn't provide a mechanism
21 -- i
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I don't
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 28 1 really know if there really is one.
2 MEMBER JONES: So you were
3 speaking -- I believe there is. You don't --
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Do you
5 want a recess? Do you want to talk about it?
6 You want to overrule my ruling and have -- if
7 that's the case, we can proceed with Mr.
8 Bailey feeding Mr. Renchard questions. I
9 think that's a very inefficient and slow way
10 of proceeding, and it's now almost 6:00.
11 MEMBER JONES: Well, it's up to
12 you.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And there's
14 nothing in our rules that --
15 MEMBER JONES: If you would like
16 to leverage the combined resources of the
17 entire Board to help make a decision, then we
18 can recess and discuss it.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I don't
20 really want to.
21 MEMBER JONES: If you don't --
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I don't. I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 29 1 would like to move on.
2 MEMBER JONES: So you would like
3 to make a decision in a vacuum?
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: In a vacuum?
5 MEMBER JONES: Yes, all on your
6 own.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, I'm
8 making it in public. It's not a vacuum.
9 MEMBER JONES: A vacuum means
10 you're making it all on your own.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: As the
12 presiding officer, yes.
13 MEMBER JONES: Okay. That's fine.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And I
15 would like to address the preliminary question
16 on the table that Mr. Kline raised. And I was
17 going to address it earlier, but we've jumped
18 into this area first. And that is that we do
19 have a settlement agreement --
20 MEMBER JONES: Well, I --
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- that was
22 submitted by -- well, we'll get back to that.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 30 1 Let me just get this preliminary agreement
2 out.
3 We do have a settlement agreement
4 that was submitted by the affected ANC. And
5 in the Omnibus Bill that meant that other
6 parties, particularly a group of five or more
7 protestants, would be subsumed and their
8 protest could not go forward. And that's
9 under Title 25-609(b). And therefore, the
10 only protestant that we have before us today
11 is the abutting property owner.
12 And therefore, I would like to,
13 for housekeeping purposes, move that we do
14 dismiss as a party the group of five or more.
15 Do I have a second?
16 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I second.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
18 Silverstein has seconded. Any other comments?
19 (No audible response.)
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
21 Then all those in favor of the motion to
22 dismiss the party of five or more, say aye?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 31 1 (Chorus of ayes.)
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All those
3 opposed?
4 (No audible response.)
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All those
6 abstaining?
7 (No audible response.)
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Now I
9 will just take a moment, if Board Members are
10 disturbed by my ruling on letting Mr. Bailey
11 question, let me know if you want to proceed
12 otherwise.
13 MEMBER JONES: I've already
14 indicated that I have a concern about the
15 precedence and the practice.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
17 MEMBER JONES: And that I'd like
18 to discuss it. You indicated that you were
19 not willing or interested in doing so, so I
20 don't know -- are you open to --
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I am -- if I
22 have a Board that wants to overrule that, I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 32 1 will entertain it.
2 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Madam Chair,
3 I would respectfully move to overrule the
4 Chair. I think that what you're asking for
5 may be more -- may be fair and it may be -- it
6 certainly would be more efficient, but I worry
7 greatly about the precedent that we're setting
8 and I'm not sure that it would be entirely
9 proper being the gentleman's not in the PIF.
10 If he wishes to be a non-attorney
11 representative, that is his right, but
12 otherwise this going back and forth is
13 something that we do not generally allow and
14 I don't think we should allow in this case.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I will
16 say that I know we have allowed -- I have
17 allowed it before and it worked fine. It's
18 just we don't want to allow it to too great an
19 extent because there's too many people
20 involved.
21 Mr. Brooks, do you have any --
22 MEMBER BROOKS: No, I align myself
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 33 1 with Board Member Silverstein.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. To end
3 this dispute then, we are going to allow Mr.
4 Bailey to write questions for Mr. Renchard.
5 Mr. Renchard will be the only person asking
6 questions.
7 MR. RENCHARD: Is that efficiency
8 of time, ma'am?
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I don't think
10 it's efficient, but if I have all other Board
11 Members concerned about the other way, then
12 we'll proceed that way and see how it goes.
13 I don't think it's efficient. Okay.
14 MR. KLINE: Madam Chair, one other
15 issue just so the record is entirely clear.
16 There is one other party and I think the
17 record is devoid of how that party has been
18 dealt with at this point, which is the Shaw-
19 Dupont Citizens Association. There is a
20 settlement agreement with SDCA. It is my
21 understanding from staff that although there
22 is no order at this point, the Board has
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 34 1 approved that settlement agreement with agreed
2 to modifications consistent with modifications
3 that were previously made to the ANC
4 agreement. So therefore, they are not a party
5 at this point because the issues with them
6 have been resolved.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's
8 correct.
9 MR. KLINE: Okay. Great. Thank
10 you.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you for
12 filling out the record, but yes, that is
13 correct.
14 All right. So any other
15 preliminary matters before we proceed?
16 MR. KLINE: Under the
17 circumstances we are not requesting the rule
18 on witnesses.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, they
20 don't have a witness. Oh, and he's a party,
21 so there's no -- okay.
22 All right. Who are your
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 35 1 witnesses?
2 MR. KLINE: The two Applicants and
3 I have two other witnesses seated in the
4 audience.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, they go
6 first, so there's no reason for him to invoke
7 it. The Applicants witnesses go first, so --
8 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Can't he ask
9 that some of the be out of the room while the
10 others testify?
11 MEMBER JONES: Yes, I guess I'm
12 confused as to what the purpose -- or I know
13 I'm not a legal person, but I'm confused as to
14 what the purpose of the rule on witnesses --
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Purpose of
16 the rule on witnesses is so one witness
17 doesn't change their testimony upon hearing
18 the testimony of another witness.
19 MEMBER JONES: Exactly. So why
20 wouldn't Mr. Renchard have the opportunity to
21 invoke said rule given there are multiple
22 witnesses that will be testifying on behalf of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 36 1 the licensee? Like I said, I know I'm not an
2 attorney, but --
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Usually it
4 works on the other side, but --
5 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: It works on
6 both sides.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- will your
8 two witnesses --
9 MEMBER JONES: Does it not work on
10 both sides?
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Your two
12 witnesses who are not parties, parties are
13 allowed to be here for the whole time always.
14 So your two witnesses, what are they
15 testifying to?
16 MR. KLINE: They live in the
17 neighborhood and their impressions of the
18 proprietors and their need for amenities in
19 the neighborhood.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr. Renchard,
21 do you want to invoke the rule on witnesses
22 which would have one witness out of the room
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 37 1 while the other witness testifies so they're
2 -- you don't have to. This is not often done,
3 but it can be invoked if you think one is
4 going to be influenced by the other one's
5 testimony.
6 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes, you
8 would like them out of the room? You would?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
11 those two should --
12 MR. KLINE: Ms. Cohen, I'll have
13 to ask you to step out until we call you in to
14 testify.
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Can they be
16 here when she testifies?
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Who? No.
18 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Ms. Martin.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The party?
20 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Ms. Dantzler.
21 Ms. Martin.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, they
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 38 1 don't have to be out for Ms. Martin's
2 testimony.
3 Anything else?
4 MR. KLINE: I don't have anything
5 else.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Ms.
7 Martin, I believe you go first. No, opening
8 statements. Sorry. Go ahead. Do you have
9 any opening statement, Mr. Kline?
10 MR. KLINE: Thank you. Good
11 evening. I think I started with good morning,
12 but good evening, Members of the Board, Madam
13 Chairperson. I'm here on behalf of Compass
14 Rose. This is an application for a CT, a
15 tavern license, right around the corner from
16 where we're sitting right now on T Street,
17 just off of 14th Street.
18 The evidence presented by the
19 Applicant will show that these Applicants have
20 given a great deal of thought to their concept
21 and spent a great deal of time working with
22 the community to address concerns that were
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 39 1 raised by the community and have entered into
2 two settlement agreements, the details of
3 which aren't particularly relevant. But the
4 fact of the matter is the Applicants have been
5 working with the community for months in an
6 effort to address issues that have been raised
7 concerning this establishment on a street that
8 is admittedly not the main thoroughfare of
9 14th Street, but is T Street.
10 The evidence will show that this
11 is a rather small establishment. The evidence
12 will further show that one of the Applicants,
13 Ms. Previte, she and her husband will reside
14 above the establishment and will be part of
15 the fabric of this community. And indeed the
16 evidence will show, given the amount of time
17 that they've spent with various community
18 groups and members of the community, Ms.
19 Previte feels that she's already part of the
20 fabric of this community.
21 At the conclusion of the hearing
22 we will request that you approve this CT
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 40 1 license application with no other restrictions
2 other than the ones that have already been
3 agreed to by the Applicant in the two
4 settlement agreements that have been submitted
5 for your review, which you've approved. Thank
6 you.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
8 you. Do the Protestants have an opening
9 statement?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, we do.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. The
12 main point of this building is it's a
13 residential building zoned by the Zoning Board
14 as a restaurant/tavern. We protest -- or I'm
15 protesting strongly against the peace, noise
16 and quiet. And the one area that concerns me
17 more than anything else is the summer garden
18 in the rear, which I request to have that
19 closed at 10:00 in the evening, and that the
20 bottles be disposed of before 9:00, and there
21 be no music in the back as well by the summer
22 garden, because it will interfere with the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 41 1 residents' bedrooms that are in the back of
2 the -- I say courtyard, if you want to use an
3 expression like that in a case like this.
4 That is my major concern.
5 What they do inside their building
6 does not concern me. What they do in front of
7 their building does not concern me. It's the
8 courtyard in back, let's call it a summer
9 garden, that disturbs me more than anything.
10 Those are the three points: Music, discarding
11 of bottles before 9:00, and music after 10:00.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you.
13 And I do want to say that each party has a
14 maximum time of an hour-and-a-half each. Mr.
15 Jones is keeping the time. And it doesn't
16 include opening and closing statements, but it
17 does include the party that's doing the cross-
18 examination. The time goes to the party
19 questioning. Okay. Any questions about that?
20 (No audible response.)
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
22 Okay. Then I think we are now ready for our
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 42 1 ABRA investigator.
2 Good evening.
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Good
4 evening.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you swear
6 to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing
7 but the truth?
8 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I affirm.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
10 you.
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Okay. As
12 already stated, this is the protest
13 investigation of Compass Rose, formerly called
14 Street.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Would you
16 also identify yourself again?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Oh, I am so
18 sorry.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's okay.
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It's been a
21 long day.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I know.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 43 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I'm Felicia
2 Martin.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: ABRA
5 investigator. And I am the author of the
6 protest investigation of Compass Rose. At the
7 initial onset of their application, they were
8 called Street. However, sometime in January
9 of 2013 Rose Previte, the co-owner of Street
10 asked of the Board to do a trade name change,
11 and on Wednesday, March 13th the Board here
12 approved the trade name to be Compass Rose.
13 On the onset for my investigation
14 this tavern license, a new tavern license was
15 being protested by the Shaw-Dupont Citizens
16 Alliance Corporation, Mr. Renchard, Ronald
17 Renchard, the abutting resident as well as a
18 group of 14 represented by Mr. Erling Bailey
19 and Mr. Herman Jimenez.
20 The protest issues stated that
21 Compass Rose would adversely affect the peace,
22 order and quiet of the neighborhood. It would
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 44 1 adversely impact the residential parking and
2 over-concentration of tavern and restaurants.
3 And as you heard, Mr. Renchard also explained
4 that the peace, order and quiet -- as an
5 abutting owner he believes will also impact
6 his living at his residence.
7 On Friday, March 30th I
8 telephonically interviewed Mr. Jimenez who
9 stated that his major concern regarding
10 Compass Rose was the proposed closing hours of
11 2:00 a.m. and/or 3:00 a.m. and his concern was
12 that Compass Rose will deposit its patrons at
13 the end of the night into an area that's
14 already noisy.
15 Further, I interviewed Mr. Bailey
16 on Monday, April 1st of 2013, telephonically
17 interviewed him. Mr. Bailey stated that his
18 major concern was that the co-owner, Ms.
19 Previte, was not being up front or honest with
20 the community during community meetings and
21 that he found her testimony to be conflicting.
22 When the community tried to pull from Ms.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 45 1 Previte the exact operation of the
2 establishment, she would switch from saying
3 that they would be operating as a tavern to
4 they would be operating as a restaurant. So
5 the community was unsure about the exact
6 operations of Compass Rose.
7 Another concern of the group of 14
8 was that Michael, also known as Mike Schuster,
9 is a owner of four other ABRA establishments
10 and the group of 14 believed that Mr. Schuster
11 has not operated 3 of the 4 establishments
12 responsibly.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Ms. Martin,
14 can I interrupt you for a second --
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- just so
17 that we know how to focus here. I know that
18 when you wrote your investigative report there
19 were several parties --
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- that had
22 protested, including the group of 14 or
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 46 1 whatever. Now as you're testifying to your
2 report, do you find that the concerns of those
3 like that party that is no longer a party to
4 this protest is still relevant to this
5 hearing?
6 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I do.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Just
8 wanted to make sure. Okay.
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Okay.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: We can get
11 into that later. Okay.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Okay.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'm sorry.
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Oh, that's
15 okay.
16 The reason why I find that those
17 issues are still relevant is because -- I'm
18 going to jump around in my report --
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Good.
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: -- is that I
21 actually did meet with Mrs. Previte on April
22 the 4th and discussed with her the business
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 47 1 operations and tried to get an understanding
2 about what type of business will be conducted
3 out of this building. And what I did find was
4 that Ms. Previte stated that this is going to
5 be a family-oriented business and that she
6 wished to have outdoor seating front and rear
7 and that she believes that her establishment
8 will be ideal for the community.
9 As I looked throughout the
10 establishment -- from the outside I saw that
11 it was four floors. It did come to my
12 attention through Mr. Bailey that he believed
13 that there was residents inside who were
14 occupying the upper levels of this building.
15 And one of the things that was truly important
16 for me to determine was that for the residents
17 in this four-story building will they be
18 commingling with the business portion of the
19 building? The building, according to the
20 Certificate of Occupancy, should be conducted
21 out of the basement level and the street
22 level, which I see as the first and second
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 48 1 floors according to the Certificate of
2 Occupancy.
3 Being that there are two other
4 floors, I asked of Mrs. Previte where did this
5 door lead? As you walk into the establishment
6 there's a door that's directly in front of
7 you. And she advised me that that led to the
8 living quarters of that where her and her
9 husband reside. She also took me on a tour
10 and we went upstairs. And she stated that
11 that third level, that level just above the
12 bar area on the street level, will be used as
13 an office. And in my examination of that
14 third level, it was set up like a residence.
15 It was consistent with residential living, as
16 well as the fourth floor.
17 And I asked Mrs. Previte if she
18 can, you know, further elaborate whether or
19 not if there's a separate entrance, which our
20 D.C. Code 25 requires that the living space be
21 separate from the business portion of the
22 establishment. And Mrs. Previte advised me
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 49 1 that at that moment there was no separate
2 entrance for residents versus the actual
3 operation of the establishment. However, she
4 anticipates if this business moves forward
5 that by the end of summer is when she hopes
6 that the establishment will be able to open.
7 And it when it does open, the construction
8 will be completed for a separate entrance for
9 residents versus the patrons.
10 One of the issues that came to my
11 attention as well through Mr. Bailey was that
12 Mrs. Previte advised the community that there
13 will be a kitchen for the business. And I
14 know Mrs. Previte did expelled upon me that
15 she would be providing food. It was not
16 really a concern of mine because the type of
17 license Mrs. Previte will have is a tavern.
18 And so a tavern is not required to have food.
19 And I saw that the purpose of having a kitchen
20 will be further explored in my view if she was
21 actually having a restaurant. However, Mrs.
22 Previte did state that she would like to have
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 50 1 a kitchen and if this moves forward she'll be
2 able to -- her idea is to build a kitchen on
3 the rear of the establishment.
4 Another concern of mine as far as
5 the operation of the business was that there
6 was no Certificate of Use for the front of the
7 building. That is designed that the -- Mrs.
8 Previte's business -- to have a sidewalk caf‚
9 in the front. The proposed seating I've come
10 to learn are 15 patrons. If you look at my
11 exhibits, you will see that the space in front
12 of the establishment -- although I'm not an
13 expert, just looking at the front space for
14 the sidewalk caf‚ will not hold 15 people
15 comfortably.
16 In addition, the back of the
17 establishment for the summer garden, she would
18 like to use that area as well for some sort of
19 outdoor dining as well. And I believe that
20 outdoor seating in the rear to be 16 -- 14 for
21 the rear. One of the concerns that I had is
22 that there are no Certificate of Use that the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 51 1 establishment, the owners have acquired
2 through the city to rent the outdoor seating.
3 And Ms. Previte did bring to my attention that
4 she understood the previous owner, I believe
5 it was Caf‚ Collage, had outdoor seating. And
6 so I got the understanding that she believed
7 that that was a type of outdoor seating for
8 the front that she was able to just roll over
9 for her use.
10 So those are really the main
11 points that I found to be of concern, and that
12 was the outdoor seating, the separate
13 entrances for the resident and a separation
14 for the operations or the business. And that
15 concludes my testimony.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Great. Thank
17 you. Board questions? Mr. Brooks?
18 MEMBER BROOKS: Yes. Ms. Martin,
19 as far as parking did they make any provisions
20 for parking for the patrons?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, we did
22 not discuss parking. I did look into that as
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 52 1 far as public transportation and I, you know,
2 did come across the three bus lines. There is
3 a Metrobus stop right at the corner of 14th
4 and T Street. And there is also the U Street
5 subway station, Cardoza subway station.
6 MEMBER BROOKS: And are they
7 proposing a summer garden and a patio?
8 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, sir.
9 MEMBER BROOKS: Approximately how
10 many seats combined?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: In my
12 opinion how many can be --
13 MEMBER BROOKS: How many seats?
14 Did they propose a number of seats or --
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, the --
16 MEMBER BROOKS: -- did they get to
17 that point?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, sir.
19 On page 8 of my report --
20 MEMBER BROOKS: Yes.
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: -- for the
22 sidewalk caf‚ the proposed seating is 15.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 53 1 MEMBER BROOKS: Yes.
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: And for the
3 summer garden the proposed seating is 14.
4 MEMBER BROOKS: Okay. And you
5 mentioned something about a kitchen, that they
6 do not have a kitchen. But this is a tavern
7 license. A kitchen it is not required.
8 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
9 MEMBER BROOKS: So what's your
10 understanding for their plans for a kitchen,
11 if any?
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That Ms.
13 Previte would like to have a kitchen and
14 she's --
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Say again,
16 please?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That she
18 would like to have a kitchen to prepare one of
19 her favorite meals, which she -- because --
20 talks about the meat pies and the kabobs that
21 she would like to offer to her patrons. But
22 it lacks a kitchen. And that she's going to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 54 1 move forward with getting approval with
2 getting a kitchen for the establishment.
3 MEMBER BROOKS: And entertainment,
4 are they proposing entertainment?
5 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, sir,
6 they are.
7 MEMBER BROOKS: Did they say what
8 type of entertainment?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I didn't
10 get an understanding what type of
11 entertainment. The application did mention a
12 DJ --
13 MEMBER BROOKS: Oh, okay.
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: -- and also
15 prerecorded music.
16 MEMBER BROOKS: Okay. And maybe
17 you didn't get to this part either, but did
18 they talk about soundproofing during their
19 construction period?
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Ms. Previte
21 did speak on that a little. She did take some
22 steps to speak with someone in construction
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 55 1 who did advise her some better ways to move
2 forward as to protect Mr. Renchard's home and
3 building some sort of wall to absorb a lot of
4 the sound.
5 MEMBER BROOKS: Thank you, Madam
6 Chair.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr.
8 Silverstein?
9 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thank you,
10 Investigator Martin, for an extremely long and
11 detailed report, 124 pages. You brought up a
12 number of matters, and I think this is a very
13 good place to start.
14 There are some concerns here.
15 Help me out with this. They want to do a
16 summer garden and a sidewalk caf‚. Would
17 those in and of themselves pose a matter of
18 concern for the neighbors? I'm not saying a
19 problem. I'm saying is this something that we
20 should be looking and saying, hmm, let's make
21 sure there's some protections?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 56 1 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: How close are
2 the residences to where these are planned?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Looking in
4 front of the -- if you're facing the
5 establishment, if you look at Exhibit No. 10,
6 you will see that Mr. Renchard's home sits to
7 the left of the establishment. And to the
8 right of the establishment is another ABC
9 establishment, Caf‚ Saint Ex. So that
10 establishment will not be a concern in my
11 opinion. But Mr. Renchard's home would
12 definitely be a concern because his home is
13 right there.
14 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: And did you
15 have an opportunity to go into Mr. Renchard's
16 home by any chance, or is there a party wall
17 between the two and is there possibly and an
18 issue of sound from inside to inside?
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That I'm not
20 able to --
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: That we're
22 not able?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 57 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: -- answer.
2 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Are there any
3 protections that Mr. Renchard has from noise
4 from the sidewalk caf‚, noise from the removal
5 of trash or anything like that in any of the
6 agreements that have been signed with the
7 neighborhood groups at this point, with the
8 ANC or the Shaw-Dupont?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Well --
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Get that on
11 the record.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Well, I have
13 yet to review the proposed settlement
14 agreement, so I don't know the language.
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: We will need
16 to explore further what this would do.
17 You say they have hopes for a
18 kitchen. Is there room in there for them to
19 build a kitchen, or how would they have a
20 kitchen?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: A full-sized
22 kitchen on the first level, which is the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 58 1 street level, would greatly reduce the number
2 of seating for the establishment. I did come
3 to learn through Mr. Bailey and through Ms.
4 Previte is that her intention is to build a
5 kitchen on the porch that's --
6 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: On the --
7 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: The rear
8 porch.
9 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: On the rear
10 porch? An enclosed kitchen?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
12 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Okay. Is
13 there anything else, any red flags here,
14 anything that we should be -- you've worked
15 here a number of years and you've seen things
16 succeed and you've seen things fail. Anything
17 here beyond those things that I have brought
18 up that you think we should be focusing on,
19 looking at as red flags?
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Not with
21 what you brought up, but my concern is that
22 there's no separate entrance for the Licensee
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 59 1 versus the patrons. You can literally come
2 from the top floor down to the street level
3 and be right in the midst of the bar. So
4 that's a big concern of mine. And I did go by
5 the property today approximately 10:15 and saw
6 that there was no construction that has begun.
7 I looked from the outside in. And I did go to
8 the rear and try to see what I can see from
9 the rear to see if there's any type of new
10 construction, and that has not begin.
11 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: That
12 certainly is a concern for a whole lot of
13 things, including after hours service.
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: The fact that
16 if a friend happens to be upstairs after the
17 bar is closed, how do we know that this isn't
18 that type of situation? So obviously this is
19 -- there would have to be a separate entrance.
20 Have to be a separate entrance. There's no --
21 plus the fact the city ordinance requires it,
22 correct?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 60 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I believe
2 they do, sir. I know our D.C. Code requires
3 a separate entrance. And as far as the rear,
4 the seating in the back for outdoor usage, the
5 rear of the establishment is very narrow. So
6 the photos that I took of the rear is from the
7 inside, inside the establishment out. But the
8 alleyway is very narrow, approximately three
9 feet of lead way to get to -- it's a
10 breezeway. Then you get to the alley. So
11 that area is very narrow. And Mr. Renchard
12 would be able to explain that area a lot
13 better than I.
14 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Again, 124
15 pages. I won't say it's the most exciting
16 reading I've ever had, but it's about as
17 extensive. And congratulations on an
18 excellent job.
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: You can
20 thank --
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I have no
22 further questions.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 61 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
2 Others? Mr. Jones?
3 MEMBER JONES: Thank you, Madam
4 Chair.
5 What did you understand to be the
6 reason why the Protestant was concerned in
7 this -- this particular Protestant was
8 concerned?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Mr.
10 Renchard?
11 MEMBER JONES: Yes.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I understood
13 it was peace, order -- correction. I
14 understood it was over-concentration.
15 However, he did have in his letter to ABRA
16 peace, order and quiet.
17 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I did not
19 list it a second time because I misread what
20 he stated. Since peace, order and quiet was
21 already addressed by the ANC and Mr. Bailey,
22 the group of 14, I did not include Mr.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 62 1 Renchard's peace, order and quiet as it
2 pertains to his abutting property. So I was
3 not -- when I did my observation, which were
4 approximately 11, I was unable to gauge any
5 type of noise and how it would impact Mr.
6 Renchard because the establishment was not
7 operating.
8 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So that was
9 kind of where I was going, just trying to get
10 a feel for -- you understood even though it
11 wasn't initially -- it wasn't characterized
12 that way in the words that you have in your
13 report. You did understand that part of Mr.
14 Renchard's concern was related to peace, order
15 and quiet, noise and I'll say disturbance in
16 the neighborhood as kind of a characterization
17 of it, right?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Right.
19 MEMBER JONES: And more
20 specifically disturbance to his neighborhood?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
22 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So when you
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 63 1 did your observations and you walked through
2 the establishment and you talked to the owner,
3 was that part of your mind set? Was that on
4 your mind as you were asking the questions and
5 delving into the operations and the nature of
6 the business? When you were asking those
7 types of questions, those probative questions,
8 was that on your mind when you did that?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
10 MEMBER JONES: Okay. In looking
11 at that narrow focus, from a red-flag-type of
12 question, to steal some verbiage from my
13 fellow Board Member here, were there any red
14 flags that you could point to from that narrow
15 focused area in terms of what you were able to
16 pull from the owner or your general
17 observations of the establishment?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, I think
19 Mr. Renchard would benefit, and the community,
20 but especially Mr. Renchard would benefit if
21 the Licensee is granted entertainment that it
22 ends early. And I say that based off of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 64 1 Matchbox, which is across the street from Mr.
2 Renchard. And you have Caf‚ Saint Ex. And
3 there was very little music that I could hear
4 from either establishment. There was some
5 talking.
6 But as far as music was concerned,
7 I think it was -- it said a lot that I didn't
8 hear any music from those establishments. And
9 I don't know if that was based off of their
10 agreements with the community to turn the
11 music off or to roll up the sidewalk early.
12 But if the Licensee is permitted to have music
13 let's say beyond or at a level where Caf‚
14 Saint Ex and Matchbox is not having music,
15 then that would be the only music that's
16 emanating in the area.
17 MEMBER JONES: All right. Did you
18 get the impression in speaking with the owner
19 that this was going to be more of a
20 restaurant/tavern or a nightclub/tavern?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I got the
22 impression Mrs. Previte really wants a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 65 1 restaurant.
2 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So from that
3 standpoint in terms of how she plans to
4 operate the establishment, based on your
5 investigation, based on your discussions,
6 would you still have the same perspective in
7 terms of the red flag in terms of the noise
8 from the establishment if it's operated more
9 like a restaurant than like a nightclub for
10 the general neighborhood and particularly for
11 this Protestant in that sense or in that vein,
12 or is it just a general concern regardless of
13 how she plans to operate the establishment?
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I believe
15 it's the latter.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: And how she
18 will operate it.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And as part
20 of your understanding, she, the owner would
21 need to have outdoor as well as indoor patron
22 involvement as part of her existing plan to go
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 66 1 forward with this business? Is that what you
2 characterized? Is that what you understood
3 from what she explained to you?
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
5 MEMBER JONES: Okay. The outdoor
6 seating area, based on your observations how
7 close is that to residential besides -- not
8 just taking into consideration the
9 Protestant's house, but the surrounding
10 environment? Where the outdoor seating area
11 is who close would it be to residents?
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Standing in
13 front of the residence looking to the left,
14 besides Mr. Renchard I think there's
15 approximately four other houses before you get
16 to the alley. So approximately five homes are
17 in that one little area.
18 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And during
19 your investigation did you have an opportunity
20 to survey the area for other establishments
21 that are allowed to have outdoor seating?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 67 1 Matchbox and -- immediately in the area is
2 Matchbox, which is across the street, and Caf‚
3 Saint Ex, which is next door to Compass Rose.
4 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So it
5 wouldn't necessarily be unprecedented
6 obviously based on your observations of other
7 licensed establishments that have outdoor
8 seating?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
10 MEMBER JONES: Okay. I think
11 that's all I have. Thank you, Madam Chair.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I just have a
13 few questions.
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, ma'am.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You
16 referenced Title 25 as having a provision that
17 required separate entrances?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You know the
20 section? I'm just not familiar with that
21 provision.
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, it's
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 68 1 under structural premises. I can locate the
2 code. I wrote it down. But I can locate
3 that.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. We can
5 probably find it, too. I was curious --
6 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Okay.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- if you
8 knew off hand. I can look for it.
9 Page 4 of your report, you
10 identified -- you say that this is in an area
11 which consists of 23 restaurants, 16 taverns,
12 2 nightclubs, etcetera. How do you define
13 area?
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: This --
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I mean you
16 give all the addresses.
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that based
19 on a certain radius or something that you
20 looked at as a general rule, or did you just
21 pick these streets?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 69 1 actually pulled that data from our database
2 for the District of Columbia Geographical
3 Information System.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
5 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: And Exhibit
6 No. 5 gives a radius of 1,200 feet.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
8 that's what the area is?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Twelve
11 hundred-foot radius? Okay. You mentioned
12 Matchbox and Caf‚ Saint Ex?
13 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you know
15 how late those establishments stay open on
16 weekdays and weekends?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Weekends is
18 2:00 -- I mean, correction -- 3:00 a.m. on the
19 weekends and 2:00 during the weekdays.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: How about the
21 outdoor seating? Do you know that?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I believe,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 70 1 if memory serves me correctly, the outdoor
2 seating for both establishments shuts down at
3 midnight.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Weekends and
5 weekdays?
6 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I think I
7 only committed to memory for the weekends. It
8 was --
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Weekends
10 midnight?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And do you
13 know weekdays? I'm sure it's in our records,
14 but if you know it --
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I don't,
16 Madam Chair.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
18 Exhibit 10 you were making referenced to
19 earlier, I just want to make sure I understand
20 which is the Applicant's building and which is
21 the abutting neighbor's. Is the Applicant's
22 building the one with the box of things in
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 71 1 front on the far right?
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Board's
3 indulgence. Let me get my hands on that.
4 Okay. Directly in front of the
5 white vehicle is, yes, the Applicant's
6 location. To the right of that is the
7 entrances for Caf‚ Saint Ex. And to the left
8 is the abutting property.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay.
10 Thank you.
11 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: The
12 Applicant's is the one --
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: In the
14 middle.
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: -- in the
16 middle.
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, the
18 middle one is --
19 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Caf‚ Saint Ex
20 is the one with the airplane over the door?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you know
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 72 1 if Caf‚ Saint Ex -- are those two entrances
2 for -- one a residence and one the business?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes, I asked
4 that question and I was told by the door
5 person that both entrances belong to Caf‚
6 Saint Ex.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay. Do
8 you know if they have residences above?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: She was
10 unsure of that.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: But she said
13 that was the office area.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Exhibit 13.
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes?
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that a
17 kitchen?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, that's
19 actually the bar area.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay.
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So was this a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 73 1 residence before or was this another
2 restaurant?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It was a
4 tavern.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: It was a
6 tavern?
7 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It was a
8 tavern called Collage. What was it?
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Collage?
10 Okay.
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Caf‚
12 Collage.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
14 So there was no kitchen in this building?
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I had only
16 been to this establishment one other time, and
17 that was approximately 2007. So it looks
18 pretty much the same --
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: -- when I
21 went on my visit last month.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And finally,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 74 1 are there any other licensed establishments
2 next to a residence on this block, or in this
3 area that you know of?
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I don't
5 recall another establishment with a residence.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
7 one other question. Sorry. Are there
8 residences that are close in the rear of this
9 establishment?
10 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: There is
11 something in the rear of the establishment,
12 but I'm looking at it from the 14th Street
13 side, the rear of 14th Street, and I would say
14 those are businesses as well.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
16 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: So their
17 alley, they being Compass Rose, joins with
18 other businesses for the alley purpose.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: There's an
20 alley behind there?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 75 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Can't really
2 -- I don't have a depiction of it, but --
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. That's
4 all my questions. I think all the Board
5 Members have asked their questions.
6 So, Mr. Kline, do you have
7 questions?
8 MR. KLINE: Yes. Good evening,
9 Investigator Martin.
10 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Hello.
11 MR. KLINE: Investigator Martin,
12 so Mr. Renchard lives immediately to the
13 left --
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
15 MR. KLINE: -- of the
16 establishment?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
18 MR. KLINE: And during the course
19 of your investigation you tried to reach him,
20 correct?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
22 MR. KLINE: But you were unable to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 76 1 reach him, correct?
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
3 MR. KLINE: Why is that, do you
4 know?
5 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: The number
6 that Mr. Renchard provided, the first time I
7 called it was during non-traditional hours, so
8 it cued me to put an extension to leave a
9 message and there was no extension provided.
10 And so I made a second attempt during regular
11 business hours and still was unsuccessful at
12 reaching him. After holding the line for
13 approximately five minutes I just terminated
14 the call.
15 MR. KLINE: Okay. So that was a
16 business number?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That is a
18 good question. I would --
19 MR. KLINE: If you know.
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Based off
21 the recording, I would say yes it was a
22 business number.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 77 1 MR. KLINE: And was it a 202 area
2 code?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, sir.
4 MR. KLINE: Do you know what the
5 area code was?
6 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I do not
7 know, but I do know the recording message
8 stated that it was in North Carolina, a
9 business in North Carolina.
10 MR. KLINE: In North Carolina?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
12 MR. KLINE: Okay. So your
13 concerns for Mr. Renchard are based upon the
14 fact that his residence is immediately
15 adjacent to this proposed establishment,
16 correct?
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
18 MR. KLINE: And if he did not live
19 immediately adjacent to this establishment,
20 you wouldn't have those concerns, right?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
22 MR. KLINE: For Mr. Renchard.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 78 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: For Mr.
2 Renchard, correct.
3 MR. KLINE: Is that right?
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
5 MR. KLINE: Okay. Now you talked
6 a lot about this entrance issue. Ms. Previte
7 advised you that she intended to separate the
8 upstairs residence from the alcoholic beverage
9 licensed business, correct?
10 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
11 MR. KLINE: All right. And with
12 respect to the Certificate of Use you're aware
13 that a Certificate of Use isn't necessary for
14 a business that isn't operating, correct?
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I'm not
16 aware of that.
17 MR. KLINE: You're not aware of
18 that?
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, sir.
20 MR. KLINE: Do you know what the
21 approval is for outside seating, what the
22 initial approval is called, the type of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 79 1 permit?
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I don't.
3 MR. KLINE: Have you ever heard
4 the term "sidewalk caf‚ permit?"
5 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
6 MR. KLINE: Okay. And now that
7 we've refreshed your recollection on that, are
8 you aware that that's something that's issued
9 by the Public Space Committee and gives the
10 permission for a business operator to use
11 public space for outside seating?
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
13 Yes.
14 MR. KLINE: All right. And do you
15 know, if you know, whether the Certificate of
16 Use is an annually renewable permit for a
17 business that's in operations?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I've learned
19 that yes it is renewed every year.
20 MR. KLINE: All right. So if a
21 business was not yet in operation, there
22 really wouldn't be any reason to renew that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 80 1 permit, would there be?
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Probably
3 not, no.
4 MR. KLINE: Probably not? Okay.
5 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
6 MR. KLINE: Now but you do know
7 that a Certificate of Use is required if the
8 business was operating, correct?
9 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. Now Ms.
11 Previte told you and you've testified that she
12 told you that she was going to separate the
13 businesses by a separate entrance. You don't
14 have any reason to believe that she isn't
15 going to do that, do you?
16 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No.
17 MR. KLINE: All right. So you
18 said that's a concern to you. How is that
19 issue related to peace, order and quiet?
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Erecting the
21 separate entrance is not related to peace,
22 order and quiet.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 81 1 MR. KLINE: It's a statutory
2 requirement, correct?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: To have the
4 separate entrance, yes.
5 MR. KLINE: And presumably this
6 business is going to comply with this and all
7 other statutory requirements, correct?
8 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
9 MR. KLINE: So it's not really an
10 issue in this proceeding, is it, other than
11 everyone being satisfied that that's what's
12 going to happen, right?
13 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
14 MR. KLINE: Now you said that one
15 area, and I think it's the front area, would
16 not comfortably seat 15.
17 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
18 MR. KLINE: But that's a
19 determination that would be made by the Public
20 Space Committee, isn't it?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
22 MR. KLINE: So you don't really
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 82 1 have any qualifications to determine what the
2 appropriate seating in an outside seating area
3 that's on public space, do you?
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I'm not
5 licensed to make that decision. I was going
6 off of my experience.
7 MR. KLINE: All right. But that's
8 something that's done by the Public Space
9 Committee. And you in the course of doing
10 inspections have seen public space permits?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That's
12 correct.
13 MR. KLINE: All right. And they
14 determine how many seats are allowed in a
15 public space seating area?
16 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
17 MR. KLINE: All right. You also
18 testified that the rear alley is narrow.
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: And that's a concern
21 to you?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It's a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 83 1 concern regarding the outdoor seating if
2 patrons would like to exit out the rear of the
3 establishment.
4 MR. KLINE: Do you have any reason
5 to believe that patrons would be exiting the
6 rear of this establishment?
7 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It's an easy
8 way to get out, yes. You can't walk side-by-
9 side. You have to go single file.
10 MR. KLINE: Okay. But that would
11 be a requirement of the building codes if that
12 wasn't wide enough, correct?
13 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
14 MR. KLINE: And presumably if this
15 establishment is issued a duly-issued
16 Certificate of Occupancy, all of those issues
17 would be addressed by DCRA, right?
18 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
19 MR. KLINE: All right. Now you
20 talked about the fact that you didn't hear any
21 music from either Caf‚ Saint Ex, which is
22 located immediately next door, correct --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 84 1 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
2 MR. KLINE: -- and Matchbox
3 located across the street?
4 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
5 MR. KLINE: And you're talking
6 about in the outside seating areas?
7 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
8 MR. KLINE: From where were you
9 when you didn't hear music? Where were you
10 standing when you didn't hear music?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It varied.
12 I would stand on the corner of 14th and T on
13 the northeast side, or I would switch
14 locations and sit in my car from the southeast
15 side of 14th and T. I would just move around.
16 MR. KLINE: Are you familiar with
17 the concept of using many small speakers in an
18 outside seating area or in another area so
19 that the sound, the music can only be heard by
20 those that are seated in that area?
21 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I've seen
22 that, yes. I've experienced that as a patron
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 85 1 myself.
2 MR. KLINE: All right. So you
3 don't really know from where you made your
4 audio observation as to whether there was
5 music in those particular outside seating
6 areas or not, do you?
7 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I
8 wouldn't say that. When I was there
9 monitoring, I was seeing if the sound carried,
10 if it would carry.
11 MR. KLINE: All right.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: So I didn't
13 hear the music carry.
14 MR. KLINE: So that was your
15 issue?
16 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Right.
17 MR. KLINE: And but you don't have
18 any reason to believe that if this
19 establishment had music in either or both
20 outside seating areas and took appropriate
21 measures to assure that it was only heard in
22 those outside seating areas that that would be
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 86 1 an issue for anyone living in the
2 neighborhood, correct?
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
4 MR. KLINE: All right. Now in
5 terms of the rear seating area, the summer
6 garden, if you will, there was a little bit of
7 testimony from you in terms of what surrounds
8 it. Do you know what surrounds the back
9 seating area, the buildings that are there and
10 what may occupy those buildings?
11 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Oh, I only
12 know based off of my observations of the front
13 of 14th -- I mean, correction, yes, 14th
14 Street and like the 1800 block, which are
15 businesses, other businesses.
16 MR. KLINE: All right. So as part
17 of your hundred-and-some-page investigative
18 report you didn't look to see and verify from
19 the back, the summer garden area, what those
20 buildings are surrounding the summer garden
21 area?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Well, I took
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 87 1 note of the buildings in the 1300 block of T
2 where the establishment is. I did take notice
3 that those are residential. As far as the --
4 as I stated on the 14th Street side, in the
5 1800 block, those are businesses. But the
6 1300 block side are residential, the rear.
7 MR. KLINE: All right. Are you
8 familiar with Ann Cashion's taqueria, which is
9 right there in the same neighborhood?
10 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: That one
11 does not ring a bell.
12 MR. KLINE: All right. Fair
13 enough. And directly across the street from
14 this establishment is Matchbox, correct?
15 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Correct.
16 MR. KLINE: Now that restaurant
17 has a very large outside seating area, doesn't
18 it?
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: It does.
20 MR. KLINE: How many patrons, do
21 you know?
22 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: For outdoor
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 88 1 seating?
2 MR. KLINE: Yes.
3 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: I want to
4 say approximately 20 or better.
5 MR. KLINE: Okay. That's all the
6 questions I have for the witness at this time.
7 Thank you.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
9 Renchard?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you. Thank
11 you for the report.
12 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: You're
13 welcome.
14 MR. RENCHARD: Super. I tell you,
15 I was very impressed myself. When I was with
16 the Commonwealth of Virginia, we would have
17 taken our hats off for you. You did a good
18 job.
19 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Thank you,
20 sir.
21 MR. RENCHARD: It was well done,
22 too.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 89 1 Several clarifications. There was
2 a comment made about noise on Saint Ex and
3 Matchbox. I want to comment on that one
4 because I have it right here and I know
5 they're not allowed to have music outside.
6 Neither Saint Ex nor Matchbox. And that's in
7 their voluntary agreement.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Let me
9 just advise you that you're supposed to be
10 asking her questions.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, I beg your
12 pardon.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You'll
14 get to testify later.
15 MR. RENCHARD: Okay.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Yes. There was a
18 question raised about you asked the Board or
19 the Board asked you about noise as far as
20 Matchbox and Saint Ex. And did you know they
21 do have -- and their voluntary agreement
22 states that they're not allowed to have noise
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 90 1 outside?
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: No, I was
3 not aware.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Could you
5 speak a little louder?
6 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That they're
8 not allowed to have what?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Allowed to have
10 noise, music outside. That's number one.
11 Did you know the alleyway in back,
12 or the -- we call it breezeway, common space
13 area is only three feet wide?
14 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes.
15 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you. That
16 was another point that was discussed. Do you
17 know the hours that this establishment has --
18 outside establishment has to work with as far
19 as their summer garden is concerned?
20 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Are you
21 speaking of Compass Rose?
22 MR. RENCHARD: Compass Rose. Beg
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 91 1 your pardon.
2 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: They're
3 asking for the outdoor seating to be 2:00
4 during the weekdays and 3:00 a.m. on the
5 weekends.
6 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you. That's
7 all.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
9 you. Any other Board questions?
10 (No audible response.)
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
12 you very much.
13 INVESTIGATOR MARTIN: Yes. Now we
14 are ready for Applicant's case.
15 MR. KLINE: Yes, call Shawn
16 Suiter.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'm going to
18 swear you in. Will you raise your right hand,
19 please? Do you swear to tell the truth, the
20 whole truth, nothing but the truth?
21 MR. SUITER: Yes, ma'am.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 92 1 Thank you.
2 MR. KLINE: Would you state your
3 name for the record, please?
4 MR. SUITER: Shawn Suiter.
5 MR. KLINE: And where do you
6 reside?
7 MR. SUITER: 1344 T Street.
8 MR. KLINE: 1344 T Street? Where
9 is that in relation to the proposed
10 establishment for which this application is
11 sought?
12 MR. SUITER: It's right next door.
13 MR. KLINE: Right next door?
14 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Sir, please
15 speak up and into the microphone. We're the
16 ones who need to hear you.
17 MR. KLINE: So if you're facing
18 the building it's to the left or the right?
19 MR. SUITER: My residence is to
20 the left of the proposed --
21 MR. KLINE: Of Compass Rose?
22 MR. SUITER: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 93 1 MR. KLINE: And to the right is
2 Caf‚ Saint Ex?
3 MR. SUITER: Yes.
4 MR. KLINE: Mr. Renchard doesn't
5 live in your building, does he?
6 MR. SUITER: Not that I
7 understand.
8 MR. KLINE: Okay. Is Mr. Renchard
9 your landlord?
10 MR. SUITER: No.
11 MR. KLINE: All right. So to your
12 knowledge he doesn't have anything to do with
13 your residence at 1344 T Street, correct?
14 MR. SUITER: Not to my knowledge.
15 MR. KLINE: All right. And that's
16 the building immediately adjacent to the
17 proposed Compass Rose?
18 MR. SUITER: Yes.
19 MR. KLINE: All right. Now are
20 you in support, or opposed, or what's your
21 position with respect to this application for
22 a CT license?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 94 1 MR. SUITER: Well, I think it's
2 perfectly fine. There was a coffee shop there
3 before when I moved in and it's been vacant.
4 And it's nice that a good neighborhood
5 establishment is coming in. I've spoken with
6 Rose a number of times and she's a very good
7 neighbor.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Can you speak
9 up a little?
10 MR. SUITER: Yes.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you.
12 So we all can hear. Okay.
13 MR. SUITER: I say I support the
14 establishment.
15 MR. KLINE: Now you mentioned
16 there was a coffee shop there before? That
17 was Caf‚ Collage?
18 MR. SUITER: Yes.
19 MR. KLINE: And were they licensed
20 for the sale of alcoholic beverages?
21 MR. SUITER: I'm actually not
22 aware of that.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 95 1 MR. KLINE: Okay. You're not
2 aware of that? Fair enough.
3 Where you live shares a common
4 wall, a party wall, if you will, with Compass
5 Rose, correct?
6 MR. SUITER: Yes.
7 MR. KLINE: Does that cause you
8 any concerns with respect to the issuance of
9 a tavern license at this particular location?
10 MR. SUITER: No, not any concerns
11 that haven't been addressed in any way.
12 MR. KLINE: Okay. And how have
13 those concerns been addressed?
14 MR. SUITER: Simple talking as
15 neighbors and discussing any sort of problems
16 that might come up. I am not too concerned
17 about any incredibly large establishments.
18 It's a very small space.
19 MR. KLINE: Okay. And in terms of
20 addressing those problems who did you work
21 with in doing that?
22 MR. SUITER: Rose.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 96 1 MR. KLINE: And how much time
2 apparently have you spent with her?
3 MR. SUITER: Well, we met several
4 times and probably two hours discussing. All
5 of that discussion was not pertaining directly
6 to these concerns, but --
7 MR. KLINE: And in your judgment
8 and view was she open to addressing whatever
9 concerns that you might have had with this
10 tavern establishment immediately adjacent to
11 your residence?
12 MR. SUITER: She could not have
13 been more open about addressing any concerns
14 and critique-ing things as they come up as
15 well. That's something that she brought up.
16 MR. KLINE: Great. Thank you.
17 That's all I have at this point.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr. Renchard,
19 do you have cross-examination?
20 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you very much
21 for being here. How long have you lived at
22 1344?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 97 1 MR. SUITER: Since the beginning
2 of September. I forget the exact date, but
3 the beginning of September 2012.
4 MR. RENCHARD: 2012? The hours of
5 the coffee shop that was there before that you
6 mentioned --
7 MR. SUITER: Yes.
8 MR. RENCHARD: -- what were those
9 hours?
10 MR. SUITER: I don't recall
11 exactly. They actually didn't always -- it
12 fluctuated, but it usually ran until about
13 6:00 or 7:00. I was usually there for about
14 two hours when they were finishing up their
15 business when I was home and they were usually
16 open before I left in the morning.
17 MR. RENCHARD: And help me on
18 hours. What time of day is that now? You
19 left home at night time or you --
20 MR. SUITER: No, excuse me.
21 Sorry. When I came back from work they were
22 usually still there for maybe about two hours
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 98 1 or so. I think they would usually close
2 around 7:00.
3 MR. RENCHARD: 7:00?
4 MR. SUITER: Maybe a little bit
5 later, around 8:00.
6 MR. RENCHARD: Okay. And they
7 opened?
8 MR. SUITER: Quite early. I
9 couldn't say with any degree of certainty.
10 MR. RENCHARD: Okay. So therefore
11 their hours weren't as long or will not be as
12 long as Compass Rose?
13 MR. SUITER: No.
14 MR. RENCHARD: So therefore you
15 didn't have any real noise issue because they
16 weren't there after 7:00 in the evenings?
17 MR. SUITER: Yes, they were
18 usually --
19 MR. RENCHARD: I mean is that
20 correct?
21 MR. SUITER: Yes, for the most
22 part.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 99 1 MR. RENCHARD: So therefore that
2 wasn't an issue on noise at all in your
3 particular case. Okay.
4 What do you think the quality of
5 life is going to be like with opening of
6 Compass Rose?
7 MR. SUITER: If anything, I'm
8 looking forward to another small establishment
9 in the neighborhood. Other than that, I don't
10 think it will be drastically changed that
11 much.
12 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Board
14 questions? Mr. Silverstein?
15 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thank you,
16 Mr. Suiter. Thanks for taking your time out
17 and coming here.
18 A number of questions about --
19 first of all, you live immediately adjacent to
20 this structure on the left?
21 MR. SUITER: When you're looking
22 at the building, Compass Rose is let's just
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 100 1 say in the center. I am immediately to the
2 left and Caf‚ Saint Ex is immediately the
3 right of Compass Rose.
4 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Where does
5 Mr. Renchard live?
6 MR. SUITER: I'm unaware of that.
7 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: What is your
8 address number?
9 MR. SUITER: 1344.
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: 1344. You
11 are aware that they're going to apply for a
12 sidewalk caf‚ and a summer garden, the
13 sidewalk caf‚ in front on public space. What
14 time do you -- you know, you live normal
15 workday hours, you know, where you sleep at
16 night? Not everybody does.
17 MR. SUITER: I usually arrive home
18 around 6:30. Recently it's been a little bit
19 earlier. Can be earlier than 5:30. And I
20 usually go to sleep around midnight.
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: What concerns
22 do you have about a sidewalk caf‚ and a summer
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 101 1 garden open until any hours? Are there
2 concerns that you have as the next door
3 neighbor?
4 MR. SUITER: Yes, I mean those are
5 legitimate concerns when any change comes in
6 right next door, as you are concerned when
7 there's a resident that moves in next door.
8 The sidewalk caf‚, I don't anticipate is going
9 to be quite a problem because our -- how our
10 apartment is structured there's -- we the
11 residents in 1344 don't use our immediate
12 front yard, if you will, at all in any way.
13 And I don't think noise-wise there will be any
14 problems that we can't address as they come
15 up.
16 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Residents?
17 Is it --
18 MR. SUITER: They're --
19 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: -- small
20 condos, small apartments, or is it a group
21 home?
22 MR. SUITER: No. Yes, there are
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 102 1 several apartments in that building.
2 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Sturdily
3 built, well soundproofed or is it --
4 MR. SUITER: Yes. Yes.
5 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Would it
6 bother you if they were out there until 3:00
7 in the morning?
8 MR. SUITER: It depends in -- as
9 exactly now --
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Who they are
11 and what they are doing?
12 MR. SUITER: Yes.
13 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Would it
14 bother you if they were crushing bottles or
15 throwing bottles in the trash at 2:00 or 3:00
16 in the morning, or is that part of life in the
17 big city?
18 MR. SUITER: Yes, that's part of
19 life in specifically this area and it's
20 changed over the past few years.
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I take it you
22 didn't move to the area because you wanted
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 103 1 complete peace, order and quiet?
2 MR. SUITER: No. I mean it was a
3 conscious decision. I had lived in the
4 neighborhood several years prior. I
5 understood the type of neighborhood that it
6 was, and so I --
7 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Mr. Suiter,
8 are there any protections that you would want?
9 I know that you're speaking in support of
10 this. Are there any things that you think
11 would be helpful for the neighbors in a
12 situation where hypothetically this Board were
13 to approve?
14 MR. SUITER: A perfect example of
15 this, the establishment directly across the
16 street, Matchbox, has an outdoor patio. And
17 I think it's actually really added a lot to
18 the neighborhood, but right when they started
19 -- the weather changed, it became warmer and
20 people started using it, they actually started
21 playing music. And that only really happened
22 for a day. I don't know exactly who; I assume
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 104 1 a neighbor, addressed it and asked them maybe
2 to stop. Or maybe that was a decision by
3 themselves. I don't know exactly why they
4 stopped playing it. And there's no problem at
5 all. I think in the instance if Compass Rose
6 were to,you know, play loud music outside, or
7 loud music inside, that might be an issue and
8 I think we could address that moving forward.
9 But I don't anticipate that happening.
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: So what
11 you're saying is we live next to each other
12 and practically on top of each other and in
13 order to survive we have to make
14 accommodations in a considerate manner to one
15 another, that people who live there don't
16 expect to total quiet and the people who do
17 business there respect the neighbors?
18 MR. SUITER: That's been my
19 experience, yes.
20 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thanks for
21 coming. No further questions.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Others? Mr.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 105 1 Jones?
2 MEMBER JONES: Thank you, Madam
3 Chair.
4 So just to make sure I'm clear,
5 what's the nature of your relationship with
6 the property owner?
7 MR. SUITER: Just neighbors.
8 Friends.
9 MEMBER JONES: No, where you live.
10 Do you own that house?
11 MR. SUITER: Oh, no, I do not.
12 No.
13 MEMBER JONES: Okay. What's the
14 nature of your relationship with the owner?
15 MR. SUITER: Of my --
16 MEMBER JONES: Where you live.
17 MR. SUITER: I'm a renter.
18 MEMBER JONES: You're a renter?
19 So you have a lease?
20 MR. SUITER: Yes.
21 MEMBER JONES: Is it a one-year
22 lease?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 106 1 MR. SUITER: Yes.
2 MEMBER JONES: So at the end of
3 that one-year lease if there's too much noise,
4 you can leave the neighborhood and never to be
5 seen again? Is that a fair statement?
6 MR. SUITER: That is a
7 possibility, yes.
8 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Do you think
9 you would feel differently if you owned that
10 house and you were quote/unquote "more vested"
11 in the neighborhood than you are right now?
12 MR. SUITER: That's a hypothetical
13 I guess I haven't considered that strongly.
14 I honestly wouldn't know what it -- if I was
15 an owner, I would be more concerned about
16 property values, and those can fluctuate on a
17 number of different things. So I guess I
18 really haven't put much thought to that.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. The
20 experience that you've had in there Since of
21 2012 with the coffee shop, based on your
22 testimony I believe you indicated that you
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 107 1 were of the impression that the coffee shop
2 closed at 7:00, give or take?
3 MR. SUITER: Yes, I mean they
4 actually didn't seem to keep too regular of
5 hours. Sometimes it went later, but yes --
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
7 MR. SUITER: -- roughly 7:00 or
8 8:00.
9 MEMBER JONES: All right. So
10 let's go with 8:00 since that's the latest
11 duration of time. And you say you generally
12 get home from work give or take around 6:30?
13 MR. SUITER: Yes, could be as
14 early as 5:00.
15 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So during
16 the week your overlap with the operating hours
17 and you're at home at peace time was roughly
18 only about an hour-and-a-half at the most?
19 MR. SUITER: It could have been
20 longer at certain times, but -- and during the
21 week they were usually -- they were open on
22 the weekends, it seemed like.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 108 1 MEMBER JONES: Oh, they were open
2 on weekends?
3 MR. SUITER: I believe so.
4 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Did you ever
5 hear any conversation, any noise, any trash,
6 any type of noise from the operations of the
7 next door coffee shop?
8 MR. SUITER: No, not from within
9 the building. And every once in awhile you
10 hear trash being taken out, but you really
11 can't discern which group is -- there's a
12 number of restaurants near. You can't really
13 discern which one is taking out the trash.
14 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And do you
15 have access to the entire building next door;
16 i.e. -- so in your residence -- I'm assuming
17 it's more than one floor. So based on the
18 picture it looks it may be up to four floors
19 with a basement entry level and two floors
20 above that?
21 MR. SUITER: No, I just have
22 access to the first floor.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 109 1 MEMBER JONES: The first floor?
2 MR. SUITER: Yes.
3 MEMBER JONES: So and help me
4 understand. So you walk up the stairs, you
5 walk in the front door and that's where you
6 live?
7 MR. SUITER: Exactly.
8 MEMBER JONES: Okay. What's above
9 you and below you in that building?
10 MR. SUITER: Above me is another
11 is a residence and below me, it's a office of
12 some sort. That's it.
13 MEMBER JONES: So below you is an
14 office? Above you is another residence?
15 MR. SUITER: Yes.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. the coffee
17 shop when it was in operation --
18 MR. SUITER: Yes.
19 MEMBER JONES: -- was that on the
20 same floor where you live?
21 MR. SUITER: Yes, their cash
22 register and I think most of the transactions
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 110 1 happened on the first floor, which was, you
2 know immediately next door to our floor. And
3 I think they also had some tables in their
4 basement, but I don't think those really were
5 used that much.
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And those in
7 the basement wouldn't have been as close to
8 you as the ones on the first floor?
9 MR. SUITER: No, the first floor
10 was I believe -- it seems to me like it's the
11 same level across.
12 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And based on
13 the pictures it seems like it would make
14 sense.
15 MR. SUITER: Yes. Yes. Yes.
16 MEMBER JONES: Can I call your
17 residence an apartment?
18 MR. SUITER: Sure.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. IN your
20 apartment where is your bedroom? Is it at the
21 rear of the building, near the front of the
22 building?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 111 1 MR. SUITER: It's at the rear of
2 the building?
3 MEMBER JONES: At the rear of the
4 building? Okay. Did you spend a lot of time
5 in the area that was directly across from
6 where you indicated where the cash register
7 was in the coffee shop?
8 MR. SUITER: I mean both are
9 relatively small locations.
10 MEMBER JONES: So either way,
11 given the size of it, it's pretty much you're
12 close no matter where you are?
13 MR. SUITER: Yes, exactly.
14 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
15 MR. SUITER: Yes.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. All right.
17 I'm just trying to get a sense. I don't know
18 how big the buildings are, so I'm just trying
19 to get a sense.
20 MR. SUITER: Yes.
21 MEMBER JONES: So from the time
22 that you've been there, since September 2012,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 112 1 how long was the overlap of your existence in
2 that residence to when the time the coffee
3 shop closed?
4 MR. SUITER: I honestly don't
5 know.
6 MEMBER JONES: You don't know?
7 MR. SUITER: I didn't really
8 notice when they -- all of a sudden we just
9 noticed that nobody had gone -- that the sign
10 had been in -- closed for --
11 MEMBER JONES: Oh, okay.
12 MR. SUITER: I think it was in
13 October.
14 MEMBER JONES: October?
15 MR. SUITER: October sometime.
16 MEMBER JONES: So do you happen to
17 remember when you first engaged Ms. Rose?
18 MR. SUITER: I think it was in
19 January or February, I believe.
20 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So most
21 likely the coffee shop was closed before you
22 started talking to Ms. Rose?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 113 1 MR. SUITER: Oh, certainly.
2 MEMBER JONES: Certainly, right?
3 MR. SUITER: Yes.
4 MEMBER JONES: So the maximum
5 amount of time that you could have overlap
6 with the operations of the coffee shop would
7 have been September to January?
8 MR. SUITER: Yes. Yes.
9 MEMBER JONES: So a few months?
10 Three months, give or take?
11 MR. SUITER: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So is it
13 fair to say that you didn't have a whole lot
14 of -- a large sample set to pull from in terms
15 of the nuisance that could have been caused by
16 the operations of any type of establishment
17 next door to you, given the time that you came
18 home from work, the operating hours of the
19 establishment and the duration of time that
20 you actually lived there until the duration of
21 time that it took for the establishment to be
22 closed?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 114 1 MR. SUITER: I think that's
2 correct to a certain degree.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
4 MR. SUITER: We certainly
5 experienced an operating business with patrons
6 and we understood -- and we'd, you know, see
7 people walking in and out. It never really
8 caused much of a problem. But it wasn't --
9 you're correct in saying that, you know,
10 probably most of their business was during the
11 day.
12 MEMBER JONES: Correct.
13 MR. SUITER: And we were not
14 present for that.
15 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Do you have
16 any concerns as a next door resident sharing
17 a party wall, as they say, with music and
18 patrons up until 3:00 in the morning?
19 MR. SUITER: I mean to a certain
20 degree, yes. But as I said, any concerns that
21 we've had we've addressed them, and I know
22 other residents of our building have addressed
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 115 1 them as well, and we're all -- I won't speak
2 for anybody else, but we all seem to be in
3 understanding that it's -- we're not
4 anticipating any problems.
5 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
6 MR. SUITER: And I think we've all
7 lived in various situations where we
8 understand what to expect and what not to
9 expect. And I don't think we're walking into
10 it without understanding what will be next to
11 us.
12 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
13 MR. SUITER: I think Rose has been
14 very good about telling us what her plans are
15 and she's been very forthcoming and always
16 updating us on how plans are going and what
17 she's thinking.
18 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And just to
19 make sure I'm clear, the concern that you have
20 based on patrons and music, would it be noise,
21 or would it be some other concern?
22 MR. SUITER: Based on -- yes, I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 116 1 mean noise level would be the only real
2 concern.
3 MEMBER JONES: The only real
4 concern? Okay. And that concern that you
5 have is mitigated by your trust in Rose?
6 MR. SUITER: Trust and
7 understanding that it's going to be a
8 functioning establishment and we've -- I think
9 we've established a strong relationship from
10 the time that we've talked and discussed about
11 her plans, be it email or in person.
12 MEMBER JONES: Okay. But there's
13 nothing in writing? There's no -- for lack of
14 a better expression; please excuse me, there's
15 no gentleman's agreement in place? It's just
16 you have faith, you trust in her? And because
17 of that trust you feel like the risk
18 associated with that operation is mitigated
19 and you're willing to -- you're okay with
20 that? You're comfortable with that?
21 MR. SUITER: That's correct.
22 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Thank you.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 117 1 Thank you, Madam Chair.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I just
3 want to follow up on some of Mr. Jones'
4 questions.
5 So you lived next door to a coffee
6 shop and I think you testified that their
7 hours were earlier than yours in the morning?
8 MR. SUITER: Yes.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did the noise
10 of their business in the morning wake you up
11 or disturb you?
12 MR. SUITER: I never heard them,
13 no.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
15 would you attribute that to good soundproofing
16 in your building?
17 MR. SUITER: Yes, I --
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you know?
19 MR. SUITER: I've never heard
20 anything from the building next door.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. How
22 about with Matchbox across the street? Do you
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 118 1 hear their noise at night from their outdoor
2 seating?
3 MR. SUITER: Other than the
4 instance I mentioned, which was they -- I
5 think they had a PA system set up outside.
6 And that was -- again they either removed it
7 or turned it off. Other than that, there was
8 like one Saturday. And it really hasn't been
9 a problem.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So I
11 think the one issue that I think concerns me
12 the most is like -- I'm just trying to
13 understand this -- is, you know, 2:00 in the
14 morning every night if you're, you know,
15 getting up to go to work the next day. I
16 think you know from your experience probably
17 that inside isn't going to bother you because
18 you've been next to a business inside. So now
19 we're talking about in the back where your --
20 you said your apartment's in the back?
21 MR. SUITER: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 119 1 then there's some in the front. So just say
2 the back where they might have outdoor seating
3 in the back. You've said that's really not a
4 concern?
5 MR. SUITER: We have -- and I
6 don't know how the other apartments are set up
7 exactly, but we have one window and it's on
8 the side of the back of our apartment.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
10 MR. SUITER: And it's facing the
11 opposite direction.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay.
13 MR. SUITER: And none of the
14 residents use our back --
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
16 MR. SUITER: -- patio, other than
17 for storage.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. What
19 if it turns out that it is a disturbance? Now
20 in this process some people get settlement
21 agreements or whatever. Do you have some kind
22 of understanding if it is a problem, or is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 120 1 your relief just to move at the end of your
2 lease?
3 MR. SUITER: And that, in your
4 question, I guess, we would be an
5 understanding that we couldn't work out
6 personally and --
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I mean I
8 don't know what -- you know, you've described
9 that you have a very neighborly relationship,
10 which is great. But I mean a lot of people
11 have something like in writing. They try to
12 get something in writing. Like, well, you
13 know, if it's really -- say it's really
14 disturbing you, you know, five working days a
15 week, is there any kind of --
16 MR. SUITER: Recourse?
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
18 MR. SUITER: Again, I think it
19 would boil down to our relationship --
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right. Okay.
21 MR. SUITER: -- and trust. I
22 think the other -- again I won't suppose to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 121 1 speak to anybody else, but -- believe to speak
2 for anybody else, but it seems like that's the
3 understanding amongst several other people in
4 our building.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
6 how many people are in your building? Three?
7 MR. SUITER: In my immediate
8 apartment it's two. The others I believe --
9 I think it's two in the apartment above us and
10 there's another apartment. And I think
11 there's two in it. I don't know the people on
12 the top floor as much.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And do
14 you know, is the configuration of the building
15 the same so that the window opens to the side
16 away from the --
17 MR. SUITER: Yes, I actually don't
18 know on the rear.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
20 MR. SUITER: In the front
21 everybody has two windows each going up the
22 front.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 122 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. But,
2 no one is here right now though --
3 MR. SUITER: Yes. Yes.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: --
5 complaining. Okay.
6 MR. SUITER: I guess I haven't
7 been to their apartments.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
9 Well, great. I don't have any other
10 questions.
11 Are there any follow-up questions?
12 MR. KLINE: Yes.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
14 MR. KLINE: Mr. Suiter, the
15 incident with Matchbox concerning music, your
16 concern was that you could hear it in your
17 apartment, correct?
18 MR. SUITER: Yes, it was directly
19 across from our apartment and so the sound
20 carried across the street.
21 MR. KLINE: But if they were
22 playing music in the outside sidewalk caf‚
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 123 1 area and you couldn't hear it, that wouldn't
2 really be a concern to you, would it?
3 MR. SUITER: If I can't hear it, I
4 don't really care.
5 MR. KLINE: Okay. Now you also
6 indicated that one of the things or what gives
7 you comfort is that you've dealt with Rose and
8 you're comfortable with her.
9 MR. SUITER: Yes.
10 MR. KLINE: Are you or are you not
11 also aware that the business entered into
12 settlement agreements with both the ANC and
13 the Shaw-Dupont Neighborhood Association?
14 MR. SUITER: I'm aware that they
15 entered agreements. As to the details, I'm
16 not.
17 MR. KLINE: You don't know the
18 details?
19 MR. SUITER: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: Okay. And then one
21 more point. Oh, the other residents in your
22 building, have you spoken to them? You don't
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 124 1 speak for them, I understand that, but are you
2 generally aware of what their feeling is about
3 this application?
4 MR. SUITER: We've spoken on
5 several instances and they seem to be -- again
6 I don't speak to them, but they seem to be of
7 the same mind as I am. We're kind of excited
8 that something's -- the neighborhood is -- a
9 smaller establishment is coming to the
10 neighborhood, which we feel like will be an
11 asset to our standard of living.
12 MR. KLINE: Great. Thank you.
13 MR. SUITER: Or an addition to our
14 standard of living.
15 MR. KLINE: Okay. Thank you.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Matchbox.
18 MR. SUITER: Yes, sir?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Saturday morning
20 you complained about the noise. They had a
21 new manager there and they were not aware that
22 they were not allowed to play music on the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 125 1 outside?
2 MR. SUITER: That would --
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That was a
4 question?
5 MR. RENCHARD: That's a question.
6 Did you know that?
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Does he know?
8 MR. SUITER: Oh, I was not aware
9 that they were not allowed to.
10 MR. RENCHARD: That was clarified
11 and I showed them their voluntary --
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You'll
13 get to testify later.
14 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, no. That's
15 fine.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay? This
17 is question time.
18 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
20 MR. RENCHARD: I just want to make
21 clarifications to help him, you know? You
22 seem to not know your neighbors very well, is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 126 1 that right?
2 MR. SUITER: Our immediate
3 upstairs neighbors we know relatively well,
4 but as far as the third floor we don't know
5 them fairly well.
6 MR. RENCHARD: And the business
7 downstairs?
8 MR. SUITER: It's an academic
9 journal and I exchange emails every once in
10 awhile with one of the women who works there,
11 but I'm not -- we're not -- we don't share the
12 same hours.
13 MR. RENCHARD: Are you in town on
14 weekends?
15 MR. SUITER: Yes.
16 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
18 you very much.
19 MR. SUITER: Thank you very much.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So you can
21 stay now if you want, or you can go. I mean
22 it's up to your attorney, but you don't have
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 127 1 to go back into the hallway, is my point,
2 because you've already testified.
3 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thank you,
4 Mr. Suiter.
5 MR. SUITER: Thank you.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I guess he
7 chooses to go.
8 (Laughter.)
9 MR. KLINE: Call to the stand Ros
10 Cohen.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I'm
12 going to swear you in. If you'll raise your
13 right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth,
14 the whole truth, nothing but the truth?
15 MS. COHEN: I do.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
17 you. And if you can speak up when you're
18 testifying, that will be great.
19 MS. COHEN: All right.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you.
21 MR. KLINE: Would you state your
22 name and address for the record, please?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 128 1 MS. COHEN: Yes, my name is
2 Rosalind Cohen and I live at 1426 Corcoran
3 Street.
4 MR. KLINE: Ms. Cohen, where is
5 your --
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'm sorry,
7 1426 what?
8 MS. COHEN: Corcoran.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Corcoran?
10 Okay.
11 MS. COHEN: Corcoran is between Q
12 and R.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Right.
14 MR. KLINE: And what's your
15 proximity to the location where Compass Rose
16 proposes to open?
17 MS. COHEN: Well, I don't know
18 whether you count the little streets or the
19 big streets, but I'm between Q and R and
20 you're at T.
21 MR. KLINE: Okay. So a few blocks
22 away?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 129 1 MS. COHEN: A few blocks, yes.
2 MR. KLINE: All right. And are
3 you here in support of this application for
4 this CT license?
5 MS. COHEN: Yes, I am.
6 MR. KLINE: And why is that?
7 MS. COHEN: Well, this is a very
8 energetic neighborhood. I've lived here for
9 almost seven years. And we moved here because
10 of the attractions. We love going out to
11 dinner, as do our neighbors. We go to theater
12 around here. We go to bars. We do all of
13 this. And so I'm here because I think this is
14 just such a great idea. We're not looking to
15 bring in more chain stores. We love having
16 unique places. This promises to have a type
17 of cuisine, new kinds of wine, and my
18 neighbors and I are very excited about it. We
19 actually sampled Georgian wine for the first
20 time in December and we're very excited about
21 the prospect. So that's why I'm here.
22 I also know Rose. I don't know
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 130 1 her very well, but she's very impressive, I
2 have to say, and she strikes me as somebody
3 who would be excellent in dealing with people
4 and trying to make things right. She would be
5 an owner/occupier there, and so she'll be
6 joining the neighborhood and that's the kind
7 of thing that we really want to encourage.
8 There's going to be a lot -- as
9 everybody appreciates, there's been a lot of
10 building going on. We're going to have a lot
11 of people moving into the area, or at least I
12 guess the real estate developers hope that's
13 going to happen. And so there's going to be
14 I think a demand for more places. And already
15 some of the places that are here that everyone
16 loves are kind of hard to get into. So that's
17 why I'm here.
18 MR. KLINE: Great. I don't have
19 any further questions of the witness.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
21 MR. KLINE: Thank you.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you have
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 131 1 any questions, Mr. Renchard?
2 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you very much
3 for being here, Ms. Cohen. Do you rent or own
4 your 1426?
5 MS. COHEN: We own.
6 MR. RENCHARD: You own?
7 MS. COHEN: Yes, I do.
8 MR. RENCHARD: So you've been here
9 for how many years?
10 MS. COHEN: Almost seven.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Seven years? So
12 you've seen a big change to this neighborhood,
13 haven't you?
14 MS. COHEN: It's more of the same,
15 I think. I think it was coming that way and
16 it's more of the same.
17 MR. RENCHARD: I see you have a
18 strong pleasure, enjoyment of Georgian wines
19 and also Ms. Rose over here. Would you not
20 think it would be better if they found a
21 larger established place to build their
22 "restaurant," quote, living area?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 132 1 MS. COHEN: I couldn't speculate
2 on that.
3 MR. RENCHARD: You couldn't
4 speculate? Well, thank you very much. I
5 appreciate it. Thank you.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are there
7 Board questions? Yes, Mr. Silverstein?
8 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Just one.
9 Thank you for coming, Ms. Cohen.
10 How far away exactly do you live
11 from this establishment, this Applicant?
12 MS. COHEN: I guess it must be
13 about four blocks.
14 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: So if someone
15 ere to scream at the top of their voice, you
16 couldn't hear it in your home?
17 MS. COHEN: From the top of their
18 voice, I don't know. You know, this is a
19 mixed-use neighborhood clearly and things are
20 noisy. We live right near other restaurants.
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: You believe
22 that small independent establishments like
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 133 1 this add to the character and the joy and
2 vibrancy of the neighborhood?
3 MS. COHEN: Absolutely.
4 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: You could not
5 at all speak about the peaceable enjoyment of
6 the home next door?
7 MS. COHEN: I have to tell you
8 that where I live the lady next door has her
9 piano right against my living room and she
10 shouldn't quit her day job of a wonderful
11 pianist, and in the back everybody has a patio
12 and all summer long they're out there drinking
13 and laughing and with loud music. So you
14 don't have to have restaurant next door. I
15 know, you know, what it is. And when it's
16 hot, when people go out on the patio, a lot of
17 us, you know, have air conditioning, so we're
18 not opened up.
19 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thank you
20 very much. No further questions.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Others?
22 (No audible response.)
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 134 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Ms. Cohen, do
2 you have any restaurants or bars on your
3 block?
4 MS. COHEN: Not on Corcoran, but
5 on the corner of Corcoran.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: On the
7 corner?
8 MS. COHEN: On the corner of
9 Corcoran there's a convenience store which
10 does a lunch business. I think they prepare
11 lunches. And so they're always out with their
12 trucks and filling up and whatever right next
13 to them, or maybe -- you know, I think it's
14 right next to them is the Pearl Diver which
15 has that place on the street. So, you know --
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So the corner
17 is Corcoran and what?
18 MS. COHEN: Corcoran and 14th.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And 14th?
20 Okay. Does that have outdoor seating?
21 MS. COHEN: Oh, yes. Well, it's
22 sort of -- you know, it has -- the bar kind of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 135 1 opens and there's a counter and then everybody
2 stands outside there.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
4 does that noise bother you in your home?
5 MS. COHEN: No, it's no more than
6 my neighbor's piano.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. All
8 right. Any other questions? Any follow up on
9 Board questions?
10 MR. KLINE: I don't have any. No,
11 thank you.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
13 Thank you very much.
14 MS. COHEN: All right.
15 MR. KLINE: Thank you for coming.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thanks.
17 MR. KLINE: Yes, call to the stand
18 Rose Previte.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'll swear
20 you in.
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you swear
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 136 1 to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing
2 but the truth?
3 MS. PREVITE: I do.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
5 you.
6 MR. KLINE: State your name and
7 address for the record, please.
8 MS. PREVITE: Rose Previte at 1346
9 T Street, N.W.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. Now that
11 is the same address as the proposed licensed
12 premises, correct?
13 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
14 MR. KLINE: All right. And how is
15 that your address at this point?
16 MS. PREVITE: The business has
17 rented the entire building and my husband and
18 I are occupying the top two floors, which I
19 consider -- if you walk in, there's a basement
20 and the first floor. So if you consider that
21 the first floor, we're on the second and the
22 third floor.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 137 1 MR. KLINE: In terms of residence?
2 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
3 MR. KLINE: And the business is
4 proposed for what floors?
5 MS. PREVITE: The basement and the
6 first floor.
7 MR. KLINE: You have some work to
8 do in outfitting the premises, correct?
9 MS. PREVITE: We have a lot of
10 work to do in outfitting the premises, and
11 we're very excited about it. But, yes, it
12 will be completely remodeled downstairs. And
13 so far we're only really redone the fourth --
14 the top floor so my husband and I can move in,
15 but we have a lot more to go. So that the
16 floor beneath us still needs remodeled. We're
17 using it as an office right now. And of
18 course we have the stairs that the
19 investigator mentioned before to make separate
20 entrances, because we very much do not want to
21 enter into the bar when we get up and go to
22 work, or my husband goes to work in the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 138 1 morning and things like that. So that's going
2 to take place.
3 MR. KLINE: Okay. And you heard
4 the investigator testify and you're aware of
5 the requirement that there be separation from
6 the licensed premises andy our residence?
7 MS. PREVITE: Absolutely, yes.
8 We've already consulted with an architect and,
9 you know, we have plenty of drawings, too, if
10 we can show you. They're very preliminary
11 drawings, but he's already informed us there's
12 no way we could open the doors unless the
13 stairway is changed and there are separate
14 entrances. So that's a requirement to open.
15 MR. KLINE: I'm going to show you
16 what we've marked as Applicant's 1 and ask you
17 if you can identify that package of documents.
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes, these were
19 created by our architects. The name of the
20 company is Alter Urban. They're based out of
21 Baltimore, but I went to high school with one
22 of the architects. And then our interior
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 139 1 designer who we're hoping to use has worked
2 with him before, so he came highly
3 recommended. And he put this together for us.
4 MR. KLINE: All right. I would
5 move Applicant's 1 into evidence.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You have a
7 copy, Mr. Renchard?
8 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And do you
10 have any objection?
11 MR. RENCHARD: (No audible
12 response.)
13 MR. KLINE: Beg the Board's
14 indulgence.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
16 MR. KLINE: All right. Turning
17 your attention to Applicant's one, there are
18 several pages there?
19 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: And you said that
21 these are proposed drawings?
22 MS. PREVITE: Yes, this is sort of
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 140 1 the second set we've gone through to sort of
2 decide on the layout. And this is the layout
3 we're planning to go forward with.
4 MS. PREVITE: All right. I'm
5 going to wait for a second while the copies
6 are distributed.
7 MS. PREVITE: Sure. I would say
8 all of this of course is pending the city
9 approval, but this is, you know, the first
10 step.
11 MR. KLINE: So you have to go in
12 for permits?
13 MS. PREVITE: Yes, we haven't got
14 to the permitting stage yet. This is just --
15 we started working about a month, a month-and-
16 a-half about with our architect to start the
17 process.
18 MR. KLINE: Got it. All right.
19 Turning your attention to Applicant's 1, if
20 you could walk the Board through the proposed
21 Compass Rose. There are various numbers on
22 here which might help in terms of identifying
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 141 1 different areas.
2 MS. PREVITE: Sure. If we start
3 from where you see T Street, obviously that's
4 the front entrance, and you'll see our steps.
5 Just like Shawn described, our buildings are
6 almost identical from the outside. You go up
7 a flight of stairs to enter in the front door.
8 And we have planned to only have entrance and
9 -- all egress from the front door for
10 customers. We don't have desire to have
11 anyone coming and going from the back. So
12 that will be the front entrance. The door
13 swings in. The door to the right will be
14 going into the restaurant.
15 MR. KLINE: Let me stop you.
16 MS. PREVITE: Sure.
17 MR. KLINE: Are we about where No.
18 1 is?
19 MS. PREVITE: At No. 1.
20 MR. KLINE: Okay.
21 MS. PREVITE: That's the foyer,
22 for lack of a better word.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 142 1 MR. KLINE: Okay.
2 MS. PREVITE: If you turn to the
3 right, that's the doorway that will take you
4 into the business. And if you go straight
5 ahead, that will be the doorway and the stairs
6 will take you up. But no customers would do
7 there. That's just for the residence.
8 If you follow -- if you go take a
9 right from No. 1 and you see No. 2, those are
10 seating areas. We have about -- including the
11 window area, that will be, you know, six
12 tables that hold about four people each. And
13 we're going to have like banquettes in the
14 wall, so they're booths. So that won't change
15 very much.
16 As you go back through the tables
17 you'll come to the bar, which is going to seat
18 about 8 to 10 in the left-hand corner. I
19 think we've concluded that the main floor is
20 under 1,000 square feet, I think, altogether.
21 I'm going to let Mike when he comes up -- he
22 is a little bit better with the numbers than
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 143 1 I am. But that space that you're looking at
2 is under 1,000 square feet.
3 You'll switch -- No. 5 is the bar.
4 And if you look to your right, you see No. 10.
5 That's the exit to the back yard, to the
6 summer garden. You'll exit out. No. 4, I
7 believe -- now I'm a little confused -- is
8 just -- yes, I think that's just our -- just
9 your -- is that the fire escape? I think the
10 stairs are trying to show you that there's a
11 fire escape, which is already there. You'll
12 kind of go underneath it. That's the kitchen
13 to your left. So that will actually be an
14 entirely new enclosed space outside.
15 MR. KLINE: When you say to your
16 left, are you talking basically --
17 MS. PREVITE: Oh, sorry.
18 MR. KLINE: -- where 7, 11 and 12
19 are?
20 MS. PREVITE: Yes, sorry. Seven,
21 eleven and twelve are what we're going to be
22 -- our kitchen space. And then there's a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 144 1 break and you see No. -- is that a six or a
2 nine, you guys? Sorry. But the next set of
3 tables. So he's hoping to get four tables
4 similar to the ones inside that hold four
5 people each. And then Nos. 8 and 6, that's
6 the end of the property. That's where the
7 fence, the back fence will be. And there's a
8 fence on either side. So the tables are up
9 against a solid wall, essentially the fence,
10 but it will be much more solid than you
11 envision a fence to be.
12 MR. KLINE: All right. Now the
13 kitchen that's proposed there, is that
14 something that you plan to construct prior to
15 opening the business?
16 MS. PREVITE: Oh, absolutely.
17 Yes, we're not --
18 MR. KLINE: This is part of your
19 plan, correct?
20 MS. PREVITE: Oh, absolutely.
21 Food has always, always, always been a huge
22 component of this. The food is my baby, so no
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 145 1 one's taking it away. We are doing a menu of
2 international street food. I won't bore you
3 with much of the concept unless you want it,
4 but we're doing things like kabobs and meat
5 pies and spinach pies and a lot of baked goods
6 and a lot of wonderful things that my husband
7 and I discovered while we were traveling the
8 world for three years while he was reporting
9 on Moscow.
10 He dragged me to Russia for three
11 years. I won't get into the details of that
12 either, but while we were living there we
13 traveled a great deal. He was covering Russia
14 for NPR. And we came back and I just thought
15 it would be a cool idea to take these little
16 bits of food we found all over the world and
17 bring them to D.C. So that's the impetus
18 behind the idea. It would change our entire
19 concept to have a kitchen.
20 MR. KLINE: All right. So let's
21 go back to the plan. So that pretty much
22 covers the first floor, correct?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 146 1 MS. PREVITE: Yes, that's our
2 first floor.
3 MR. KLINE: All right. The second
4 page is the basement floor plan?
5 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
6 MR. KLINE: Walk through with the
7 Board if you will through that in terms of
8 what's depicted on that plan.
9 MS. PREVITE: Sure. There's a set
10 stairs that -- sorry, back on the first floor
11 right behind No. 1. That's the stairs that
12 will take you downstairs. And the only way to
13 get downstairs would be inside of the
14 restaurant. When you go down the stairs,
15 you'll see No. 1. That's egress that just
16 exits to the front. That's just for fire
17 safety. We won't be using that.
18 Then similarly you're seeing
19 almost the identical set up of tables and
20 chairs downstairs. So six tables holding
21 about four each. And then pretty much
22 everything in the back, Nos. 6 and 5 and 4 and
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 147 1 5 and 3, are going to be bathrooms and storage
2 at the moment. And there's also one more fire
3 exit to the back.
4 MR. KLINE: All right. Flip to
5 the third page and tell the Board what's
6 depicted there.
7 MS. PREVITE: This is just a
8 better schematic of kind if you cut the house
9 in half and you were looking in. You'll see
10 a little bit more of the color. And the set
11 up of our tables are kind of divided into what
12 we kind of envision as market stalls almost,
13 since we're kind of copying this idea of
14 street food.
15 On the main floor you see the bar.
16 And outside you can get a little more of an
17 idea of what kind of appliances and things
18 will be in the kitchen, and behind it the
19 tables. The only other thing I would bring up
20 there is that you'll see kind of like the
21 diagonals, like the little -- the coloring on
22 the walls behind the tables is a material
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 148 1 intended for soundproofing. It's kind of a --
2 almost like a plastic tile. And we're going
3 to try to artistically -- we're talking about
4 it. I mean nothing's confirmed yet, but we're
5 talking about putting those in the walls
6 inside the restaurant to help with the issues
7 of sound transporting. So they're actually a
8 really important part of the plan.
9 MR. KLINE: Turn to the next page.
10 Are those depicted on the next page?
11 MS. PREVITE: Yes, those big tiles
12 are what you see. That will be right on the
13 wall behind each table. And those will be in
14 the basement as well and outside on the back
15 fence.
16 MR. KLINE: And this is
17 conceptual, but I mean this is what you're
18 intending on doing in terms of construction of
19 the establishment?
20 MS. PREVITE: Yes, when we
21 consulted with our architect and told him our
22 concerns about noise, this is just one idea
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 149 1 that he's come up with that he said has been
2 effective in other places.
3 MR. KLINE: All right. So that
4 would be page 4. Turning to page 5, what's
5 depicted there?
6 MS. PREVITE: The one without
7 the --
8 MR. KLINE: The one with --
9 MS. PREVITE: Or with the -- I'm
10 sorry. With? Okay. That would just be if
11 you were standing behind the bar on the first
12 floor and you were looking out. Looking --
13 I'm sorry, looking into the restaurant.
14 MR. KLINE: Hold up what you're
15 looking at.
16 MS. PREVITE: This one with --
17 MR. KLINE: Okay. Yes, we're
18 finished with that one. That was the one that
19 shows the tile renderings on the wall,
20 correct?
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
22 MR. KLINE: And what are the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 150 1 panels that you see over the hexagonal tiles?
2 MS. PREVITE: You know, hexagons?
3 They're -- we're probably going to use plywood
4 in that space. Maybe curve it a little bit
5 more than you see in the drawing, kind of add
6 to this feeling that you're almost like in an
7 abstract marketplace, you know, wandering the
8 streets trying to find food in some exotic
9 country. And they're just there for effect.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. Now flip
11 to the next page where there seems to be some
12 barstools depicted.
13 MS. PREVITE: Yes, this would just
14 be -- flip it around. It's as if you came in
15 the door and -- the front door and you just
16 looked inside, this is what you'll see. And
17 you'll see how close the tables are and how
18 tiny the bar is, because it is, like we said,
19 a very small space.
20 MR. KLINE: All right. And then
21 flipping to the last page of that packet,
22 what's depicted there?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 151 1 MS. PREVITE: This is the summer
2 garden. The stairs you see will take you from
3 the first floor into the summer garden. And
4 this is a rendering of what we hope to put
5 outside, tables, again the soundproofing tiles
6 on the walls. You also see a covering. And
7 we envision some kind of covering to make the
8 space useable, you know, in bad weather, but
9 also in the hopes of keeping out -- keeping in
10 the sound and not letting it out. Right now
11 we kind of have a draping canvas-y idea, but
12 we're still experimenting with different
13 roofing in the back.
14 MR. KLINE: All right. Great. I
15 want to show you what we've marked as
16 Applicant's --
17 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Excuse me,
18 please. Mr. Renchard, the microphone there is
19 very sensitive. When you put paper on it, it
20 -- it's very commonly done.
21 MR. KLINE: Applicant's 2. Could
22 you describe what that is for the Board?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 152 1 MS. PREVITE: Oh, yes, I can
2 probably describe it too much. But this is a
3 proposed menu. Really the only sad thing
4 about this is I'll probably not be able to do
5 everything at one time because our kitchen
6 will be small -- is our only drawback. But
7 this is an ideal menu. I'd love to have
8 everything on it. And a lot of the kabobs
9 will be the same. We're doing dumplings,
10 because again kind of something you can find
11 in many different countries of the world is a
12 dumpling. So we have a whole selection of
13 those. A bunch of nibbles, as we call them.
14 They're like appetizers and small food. A lot
15 of baked goods and a little bit more like
16 sliders or sandwiches in the end. But all
17 representative of simple things that you can
18 find in the streets of the world.
19 MR. KLINE: Great. I'd move
20 Applicant's 2.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did you move
22 Applicant's 1?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 153 1 MR. KLINE: Yes.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are there any
3 objections --
4 MR. KLINE: I thought I did.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, I
6 haven't ruled on it. I know that. Are there
7 any objections to these exhibits?
8 MR. RENCHARD: We'd like to ask
9 some comments.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: What?
11 MR. RENCHARD: We'd like
12 questions. Questions, please?
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Wait. About?
14 MR. RENCHARD: This.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You will get
16 to cross --
17 MR. RENCHARD: This.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You will get
19 to cross-examine her about that.
20 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, okay.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So my only
22 question is, you know, if there's an objection
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 154 1 to it being entered into evidence.
2 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, no objection to
3 entering it.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Both
5 of them?
6 MR. RENCHARD: (No audible
7 response.)
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Then
9 Applicant's Exhibits 1 and 2 are now entered
10 into evidence.
11 MR. KLINE: Okay. Thank you.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And you will
13 have a chance when he's finished. Okay.
14 MR. KLINE: Now, Ms. Previte, you
15 talked about some of your travel experiences.
16 Do you also have experience in the hospitality
17 business?
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes, quite a bit. I
19 grew up in a food-loving family who --
20 coincidentally my father was a
21 lawyer/pharmacist who loved food more than
22 anything else, so he'd drive us around to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 155 1 street fairs making Italian sausages for much
2 of my mortified childhood. But we did that
3 until my mom finally broke down and opened her
4 own restaurant which we helped her get up off
5 the ground.
6 Waited tables in college. Worked
7 in a grocery store in high school and college.
8 And then went and worked at one of Mike's bars
9 starting in 2002 when I first arrived in D.C.
10 I was interning for Human Rights Watch and I
11 didn't have a dollar, so I went to work
12 Pittsburgh Steelers football on Sundays at the
13 Poor House, and worked there for six-and-a-
14 half years. Obviously Mike and I stayed
15 friends and we've become business partners
16 years down the line.
17 MR. KLINE: All right. So six-
18 and-a-half years --
19 MS. PREVITE: At Mike's bar, but
20 over 10 in non-family-related businesses.
21 MR. KLINE: All right.
22 MS. PREVITE: There's kind of a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 156 1 life time in family-related food business.
2 MR. KLINE: All right then.
3 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
4 MR. KLINE: And I think you've
5 talked about it some, but in terms of the
6 style of this place, what's it going to feel
7 like? If I walk in or one of the Board
8 Members walks in, what can they expect to find
9 in terms of how the place looks and feels
10 other than the physical attributes which we
11 focused on?
12 MS. PREVITE: The physical
13 attributes are only intended to make it feel
14 comfortable. At the heart of Compass Rose is
15 the neighborhood. We want this to be a
16 gathering place. We want this to be kind of,
17 you know -- a word the British like to use is
18 your "local," kind of the spot that you stop
19 off on your way from work to complain about
20 what happened that day, but you're also going
21 to come back on the weekends to have your
22 birthday party. But this is meant to be a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 157 1 community place. I learned from Mike's other
2 places that I worked at and spent a great deal
3 of time in and where I made most of my best
4 friends, where I met my husband. I mean these
5 places were not just places you go to get
6 drunk.
7 They're meant to be a second home.
8 And part of why I love the idea that I live
9 there is because now I can really tell you
10 it's an extension of my living room. And
11 that's what the atmosphere is intended to
12 convey. That's what the food and the service
13 will absolutely convey.
14 MR. KLINE: In preparing to open
15 this business and over the course of the last
16 two months you spent a great deal of time in
17 this community in addition to living there,
18 correct?
19 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: And you've met with
21 various people?
22 MS. PREVITE: Yes, I mean --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 158 1 MR. KLINE: Can you give the Board
2 some idea of --
3 MS. PREVITE: Sure.
4 MR. KLINE: -- the groups that
5 you've met with and worked with in --
6 MS. PREVITE: Oh, sure. I
7 think --
8 MR. KLINE: -- moving forward?
9 MS. PREVITE: -- all together
10 there's been like 12 community meetings. We
11 went -- I think we've been to every ANC
12 meeting this year, every ABC Committee meeting
13 this year, except for last month. I think I
14 missed the emergency one. But we spent a lot
15 of time talking with Zahra Jilani, our ANC
16 commissioner, and Jeremy Leffler, the chair of
17 the ABC Committee. Zahra and I worked endless
18 hours to get the settlement agreement together
19 and to work with the neighborhood groups.
20 I individually tried to reach out
21 as much as I could to individual protesters.
22 Mr. Bailey and I met. So did Ron and Herman.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 159 1 We've all met one on one as well to talk out
2 issues. Mr. Bailey came over to the place and
3 we did a walk-through. We've been to the U
4 Street Neighborhood Association and SDCA, the
5 Shaw-Dupont Citizens Alliance, as well.
6 So we've been doing everything we
7 can to reach out. I can't stress enough how
8 important neighbors are. And so as much as we
9 wanted -- we wanted everyone to know not to be
10 afraid of us and that if there's problems and
11 concerns, that we will take care of them. And
12 I'm very mindful already of a lot of the
13 things that we've agreed to in our agreement,
14 which I feel a lot of people are really in
15 support of, as well as just generally in
16 support of our business.
17 And like, you know, Shawn said, I
18 think it's an understanding I have with a lot
19 of people that, yes, the settlement agreement
20 is great, but in addition if something -- and
21 it isn't working, it's going to get changed.
22 MR. KLINE: Now, so you've
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 160 1 referenced settlement agreements. And you've
2 entered into settlement agreements with both
3 the ANC and the Shaw-Dupont Citizens
4 Association, correct?
5 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
6 MR. KLINE: And do those restrict
7 your operation in some way, impose conditions?
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes, I mean --
9 MR. KLINE: All right. If you
10 can, recap for the Board what changes have
11 been made with respect to hours, entertainment
12 and other things?
13 MS. PREVITE: Oh, absolutely. Of
14 the top of my head, I mean because like I
15 said, we did spend hours on it, but now it's
16 been a couple weeks.
17 MR. KLINE: Beg the Board's
18 indulgence. Would it be helpful to have a
19 copy of the agreement in front of you?
20 MS. PREVITE: Just in case I
21 forget something, is that okay?
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 161 1 MS. PREVITE: Okay. Thank you.
2 But I think I have most of it. One of the
3 first concerns was the front patio, which we
4 had asked for full hours on, but since then
5 has gone back to -- you know, after talking
6 with the neighborhood and working with the
7 ANC, the patio, which altogether might --
8 probably would hold something around like
9 three or four tables. I know that's not our
10 decision. That will end up being the city's
11 decision. But we're not envisioning a large
12 amount of people out there. But we still
13 decided on a time that was less than our
14 neighbors actually.
15 The sidewalk caf‚ will be open
16 Sunday through Thursday 8:00 to 11:00 p.m.
17 But we also don't plan on -- most days we'll
18 open at 5:00 except on Saturday and Sunday for
19 brunch. But we do have from 8:00 a.m. to
20 11:00 p.m. And until 11:30 -- it just changes
21 by half an hour on Friday and Saturday. And
22 that does mean to be, you know, completely
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 162 1 cleared, and I think we put that in there.
2 Shutdown and cleared. Not just we finish
3 serving by that time. The people will be off
4 by 11:00 and 11:30.
5 MR. KLINE: So that represents a
6 reduction from what you applied for and what
7 the investigator testified to in terms of the
8 hours that you are seeking, correct?
9 MS. PREVITE: Yes, I think she
10 mentioned the 2:00 a.m. and 3:00 a.m., which
11 we originally had, but we've moved that down
12 to 11:00, which is less than Saint Ex and also
13 than Matchbox, if I remember correctly.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Could I just
15 get a clarification, which settlement
16 agreement you're looking at?
17 MS. PREVITE: I think the --
18 MR. KLINE: They're virtually
19 identical --
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay.
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes, I --
22 MR. KLINE: -- terms of terms.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 163 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Fine
2 then. Thank you. That was another question
3 I would have had.
4 MR. KLINE: There's some
5 constructural change, but they're virtually
6 identical.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
10 MS. PREVITE: And then inside our
11 hours -- we do have full hours inside, which
12 the concern -- most folks were not concerned
13 about that. And we did -- we made some
14 restrictions on entertainment inside. While
15 we are -- the exact language -- I'm sorry I
16 didn't --
17 MR. KLINE: Well, before we get to
18 that let's talk about the hours on the summer
19 garden.
20 MS. PREVITE: Sure.
21 MR. KLINE: Did you also --
22 MS. PREVITE: Oh, we can switch to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 164 1 the summer garden, sure.
2 MR. KLINE: Whoa, can't talk both
3 at the same time or this gentleman over here
4 is going to have a hard time.
5 MS. PREVITE: I'm sorry.
6 MR. KLINE: Did you make changes
7 to the summer garden hours as well in
8 connection with the settlement agreement
9 process?
10 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
11 MR. KLINE: Okay. Tell the Board
12 what those hours are.
13 MS. PREVITE: We went from -- we
14 also asked for full hours of -- not quite full
15 hours in the summer garden. I think it was
16 1:00 and 2:00 originally, 1:00 a.m. and 2:00
17 a.m., the difference being weekdays and
18 weekend nights. What we agreed on with the
19 ANC and SDCA was Sunday through Thursday the
20 summer garden will close and be completely
21 cleared by 11:00 p.m. and only on Friday and
22 Saturday night we ask to keep it open until
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 165 1 1:00 a.m. And everyone agreed on that.
2 MR. KLINE: And based on the
3 drawings that you've presented and based upon
4 the space that's there, how many people are we
5 talking about out there?
6 MS. PREVITE: The back yard is
7 only altogether about 15 feet by 22 feet. And
8 with the addition of the kitchen we're cutting
9 in half practically. So I think at most --
10 again, the city will have to determine the
11 footage and everything. I mean 15 to 20 I
12 think is about how many people we're talking
13 about, yes.
14 MR. KLINE: And did you also agree
15 with respect to the sidewalk caf‚ that people
16 would only be served seated?
17 MS. PREVITE: We did.
18 MR. KLINE: Okay.
19 MS. PREVITE: We were asked by
20 some of the protestants if we would agree to
21 only serve people while they were seated
22 outside, and we agreed to that.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 166 1 MR. KLINE: There are also
2 provisions in this agreement with respect to
3 noise control and entertainment, correct?
4 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
5 MR. KLINE: And tell the Board
6 what those are.
7 MS. PREVITE: Yes, we have about a
8 page of noise restrictions I think it ended up
9 being, because we are very cognizant of, you
10 know, how important this is. And one of the
11 big ones -- is this inside --
12 MR. KLINE: Yes, go ahead.
13 MS. PREVITE: -- on this one, or
14 should we skip to the summer garden?
15 MR. KLINE: Yes, go ahead.
16 MS. PREVITE: Okay.
17 MR. KLINE: Talk about inside.
18 MS. PREVITE: On the inside we do
19 have full hours, but we have limited our
20 entertainment. When it's live music we made
21 specific note of what kind of instruments can
22 be played, how many can be played at one time.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 167 1 I think we agreed to just three instruments
2 any one time. We made stipulations about the
3 amplification. One of the big things being
4 that any kind of speakers that are used in the
5 premises or on the premises are going to be
6 tested. We're specifically getting a sound
7 engineer for the summer garden.
8 But even inside something that
9 Mike has done at some of his other
10 establishments and we plan to do is test the
11 volume and agree to a number that we're going
12 to keep it at. If the neighbors -- if Shawn
13 can hear it, we're going to lower it. I mean
14 it's just going to be at where it's not an
15 issue. So as much as we -- and, you know, the
16 DJ and the live music are all occasional.
17 MR. KLINE: So just to sum up,
18 your agreement is residents won't hear
19 music --
20 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
21 MR. KLINE: -- in their
22 residences, period.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 168 1 MS. PREVITE: Period.
2 MR. KLINE: Correct?
3 MS. COHEN: Period.
4 MR. KLINE: And you've thought
5 about how you're going to accomplish that,
6 correct?
7 MS. PREVITE: Absolutely. And
8 we've written it down in fact in the SA.
9 MR. KLINE: Great.
10 MS. PREVITE: Could I mention
11 anything about sound in the back, or do you
12 want me --
13 MR. KLINE: Let's talk about sound
14 in the back. Go ahead.
15 MS. PREVITE: Sorry if I -- ask my
16 husband. I talk over him all the time. I'm
17 sorry.
18 In the outside we have gotten rid
19 of live music completely. We did originally
20 request it on our application.
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Sorry?
22 You've gotten rid of?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 169 1 MS. PREVITE: Live music. So
2 there will be -- as much as we do have some
3 occasional live music inside, we've agreed
4 with the protesting parties to get rid of all
5 live music outside and put language into the
6 settlement agreement that specifies very low
7 recorded background music will be played.
8 Again after talking to the architect the idea
9 that I think Andrew mentioned earlier about
10 taking -- making -- doing small speakers and
11 setting them around so it's never amplified,
12 working with the sound engineer again to make
13 sure that if there is music and voices and
14 they don't leave the back yard or the summer
15 garden. So those are some of the changes, as
16 well as the hours.
17 MR. KLINE: Did you also make an
18 agreement with respect to removal of trash or
19 bottles from the premises?
20 MS. PREVITE: Yes, we agreed the
21 two groups and I -- and Compass Rose agreed to
22 not remove bottles past 10:00 p.m. or before
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 170 1 8:00 a.m. seven days a week.
2 MR. KLINE: All right. And in
3 your discussions with the various groups that
4 you met with and residents that you met with,
5 for the most part did they seem satisfied with
6 the concessions that you've made and your
7 agreements to address their concerns?
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes, everyone that I
9 reached out to with the exception of some of
10 our -- the folks that protested us -- everyone
11 seems very happy. I know the ANC, we worked
12 together really well and we felt that we had
13 made a great compromise with the residents'
14 group. And SDCA also in the end also agreed
15 with a lot of our changes, and I think we
16 worked all really well together.
17 MR. KLINE: I want to you show you
18 what's been marked as Applicant's Exhibit 3
19 and ask if you can identify that package of
20 documents.
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes, these are a
22 grouping of letters of support that I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 171 1 gathered. Some of them are addressed to the
2 ANC because originally it was -- they were
3 requests for the ANC to accept, you know, our
4 settlement agreement and to show neighborhood
5 support, that it's not just the voice of
6 protest that's out there, but there's actually
7 a lot of neighbors who are excited that we're
8 there. So to sum it up, that's what all these
9 letters say.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. I'd move
11 Applicant's Exhibit 3.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'd like to
13 see it.
14 MR. KLINE: Oh.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And have you
16 shown it to Mr. Renchard?
17 MR. RENCHARD: No, I have not seen
18 it.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: He'd like to
20 see it, too.
21 MR. KLINE: You have a copy
22 sitting right here.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 172 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I know it's
2 getting late.
3 MR. RENCHARD: I would take issue.
4 Most of these look like form letters.
5 MS. PREVITE: You want me to
6 answer that?
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are you
8 objecting to their being admitted into
9 evidence?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, I have an
11 objecting to them being admitted.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: On the basis
13 that they look like form letters?
14 MR. RENCHARD: Like form letters,
15 yes, ma'am.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr. Kline,
17 can you or your client address where these
18 letters came from?
19 MR. KLINE: Sure. Ms. Previte,
20 will you tell the Board how these letters were
21 collected and where they came from?
22 MS. PREVITE: Well, a number, I'd
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 173 1 actually say the majority of them were lovely
2 letters written by friends and neighbors. We
3 have a number of friends we already know in
4 the neighborhood who we reached out to who did
5 some of them from the heart. But some of them
6 were just folks that we kind of went knocking
7 door to door to introduce ourselves and tell
8 them about our business and who we are. And
9 if they supported us, we did have a couple
10 form letters ready so they could just sign,
11 and they didn't write them themselves. But
12 that's only a few of them. But, yes, that is
13 how they were -- they were kind of door to
14 door. This is who we are and we hope you
15 support us if you do sign. And that's how
16 those came about.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So the
18 ones -- okay. There are different types of
19 letters in here though. At the beginning you
20 have some to whom it may concern, sincerely,
21 address. And those are all the -- a lot of
22 them are similar, yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 174 1 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Exactly.
3 Okay. So were those door to door, or what
4 were those?
5 MS. PREVITE: Well, some of them
6 not -- like for example, the first one is
7 Talley Holmes, our landlord, who's lived on
8 this street for 90 years.
9 MR. RENCHARD: Objection. He
10 doesn't live on the street.
11 MS. PREVITE: He owns our house
12 and his house which he grew up in, but I think
13 it's officially his office now, but --
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
15 MS. PREVITE: -- he was born --
16 he's been there for -- he's 90-some years old
17 and --
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And did you
19 physically take these to whom it may concern
20 letters to these individuals and they signed
21 them in front of you?
22 MS. PREVITE: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 175 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
2 that's how you got those?
3 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: How many
5 letters are here? Oh, there's a lot here.
6 Mr. Renchard, those to me were
7 ones that I thought you might be referring to
8 where you said they looked like form letters.
9 And she has just testified that she personally
10 brought them to individuals and they signed
11 them.
12 MR. RENCHARD: I object to the
13 whole packet, ma'am.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The rest of
15 the packet?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: On the basis
18 of what?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Basis that I have
20 not seen it. I have not been notified of any
21 of these letters.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you want
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 176 1 to respond to that, Mr. Kline?
2 MR. KLINE: I'm not sure how to
3 respond. It seems to me that they reflect two
4 things: One is the Applicant's continuing
5 efforts in the neighborhood to communicate and
6 seek support and they're evidence of her
7 contacts within the community. And they are
8 also evidence of support of the establishment,
9 which in and of itself frankly doesn't mean a
10 whole lot because this Board has to make a
11 decision about peace, order and quiet. But
12 certainly if there are a number of people
13 within the neighborhood who support the
14 establishment, then it would seem that the
15 Board's concerns might be less than if you had
16 an angry mob in here opposing this
17 application.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I'm
19 not aware that there's an obligation for you
20 to have provided these documents ahead of time
21 to Mr. Renchard. It might be a good idea to
22 put in our rules, I don't know, but as far as
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 177 1 I know there's not a requirement as -- and in
2 contrast to the requirement that you identify
3 your witnesses on the PIF.
4 MR. RENCHARD: Does he not mention
5 in his PIF file that he only has certain
6 witnesses?
7 MR. KLINE: If you look at our
8 PIF, you will see under exhibits, letters of
9 support is the first item that's referenced.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: This does
11 support what you said in your PIF, that the
12 testimony would go to the positive impact on
13 the neighborhood. So you were on notice of
14 that. And I think that these are not
15 unreliable. So I will admit them as
16 application's Exhibit 3. And you can cross-
17 examine when it's your turn, if you want, with
18 respect to these documents.
19 MR. KLINE: Thank you. Ms.
20 Previte, during the course of your traveling
21 the neighborhood did you have occasion -- we
22 saw Mr. Suiter who testified. Did you also
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 178 1 speak to the other people who live in his
2 building?
3 MS. PREVITE: Yes, and there are
4 letters of support from the woman who works in
5 the downstairs office that Shawn mentioned and
6 the couple that lives above him. But like
7 Shawn, we can't seem to track down the couple
8 on the top floor. So they're the only
9 exception.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. But the
11 couple that lives above him has indicated that
12 they are also in support of your
13 establishment, correct?
14 MS. PREVITE: Yes, the letter by
15 Erin Lumly represents that unit next door, and
16 they are all in support. Has spoken at our
17 last ABC Committee meeting publicly and on the
18 record in support of us as well.
19 MR. KLINE: I want to show you
20 what we've marked as Applicant's Exhibit 5 and
21 ask you if you can identify what's depicted
22 there.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 179 1 MS. PREVITE: This is our back
2 yard, our summer garden.
3 MR. KLINE: And how many pages is
4 that exhibit?
5 MS. PREVITE: Two.
6 MR. KLINE: And are they both
7 photographs?
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Have you
10 given it to Mr. Renchard?
11 MR. KLINE: Yes.
12 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, I have them.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
14 you. All right.
15 MR. KLINE: And there's one
16 photograph on the first page and two on the
17 second?
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
19 MR. KLINE: And what do they all
20 depict, just so we're clear?
21 MS. PREVITE: They're all just
22 different views of our summer garden area.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 180 1 MR. KLINE: Okay. I would move
2 Applicant's Exhibit 5.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did you have
4 a four? Are you skipping for some reason?
5 MR. KLINE: I'm skipping four
6 right now.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. All
8 right. Any objections?
9 MR. RENCHARD: No.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Then
11 these two pages of photographs are admitted as
12 Applicant's Exhibit No. 5.
13 MR. KLINE: The first page of
14 Exhibit 5, will you describe for the Board
15 what's depicted there? You said it's the
16 summer garden, but what's the white building
17 to the right?
18 MS. PREVITE: To the right that is
19 1344 T Street where Shawn Suiter lives.
20 That's next door.
21 MR. KLINE: Okay. And there's a
22 fence that separates the two properties?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 181 1 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
2 MR. KLINE: The kitchen you
3 propose to put back here, correct?
4 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
5 MR. KLINE: Can you tell the Board
6 roughly where you expect that to go based on
7 this photo?
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes, we're going to
9 modify the fire escape a little bit, so it's
10 going to kind of start where you see that old
11 air-conditioning unit. And where the columns
12 are, that's the porch. The fire escape, it's
13 going to go underneath there and come out into
14 the yard.
15 MR. KLINE: Will the kitchen thus
16 be a barrier between your outside seating area
17 and the building next door?
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes, it's going to
19 take up a length of the fence. Not the entire
20 length, but some of it.
21 MR. KLINE: Do you know, if you
22 know, how far back the architect has
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 182 1 contemplated the kitchen will come based upon
2 this photo and the fence that's shown there?
3 MS. PREVITE: I'm not exactly
4 sure.
5 MR. KLINE: Okay.
6 MS. PREVITE: I'm sorry, I don't
7 know the footage, no.
8 MR. KLINE: All right. Turning to
9 the second page of Exhibit 5, there's a photo
10 on the left. Can you describe in a little
11 more detail in terms of what that view is?
12 MS. PREVITE: That's the view from
13 the now -- the door that exists in the back of
14 the first floor looking out into the summer
15 garden. You're looking straight out. The
16 wall that you see in the back, the building I
17 think the investigator also referenced, that's
18 the Source Theatre, which it covers the entire
19 length of the alley behind us. And to the --
20 that's what you can see here.
21 MR. KLINE: Okay. All right. So
22 let's talk about what surrounds the alley. So
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 183 1 immediately behind the summer garden area is
2 the wall of the Source Theatre?
3 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
4 MR. KLINE: And that extends
5 behind your summer garden area, the building
6 to the left where Mr. Suiter lives. And do
7 you know offhand how far back it extends?
8 MS. PREVITE: I think it goes to
9 the alley. I'm not completely sure.
10 MR. KLINE: Okay.
11 MS. PREVITE: But it definitely
12 covers my summer garden and our immediate
13 neighbors.
14 MR. KLINE: Okay. Then if it goes
15 to the alley, that would be the three
16 buildings adjacent to the east of Mr. Suiter's
17 residence?
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes, we're a set of
19 like four mixed-use houses and there comes to
20 an alley.
21 MR. KLINE: Okay.
22 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 184 1 MR. KLINE: And then as you're
2 facing the summer garden area with your back
3 to the building, what's to the right?
4 MS. PREVITE: If I'm looking at
5 this to the right, it's --
6 MR. KLINE: In other words, the
7 view that you have in this picture.
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes, the one to the
9 right is Saint Ex. They have a beer cooler,
10 garbage, and the entire back of their building
11 is to our right. And also the back entrance
12 of Manny and Olga's pizza place. So what I --
13 I understand most of the building next door is
14 commercial. So that is -- from what I think
15 it's all the back of businesses, from what I
16 understand.
17 MR. KLINE: Okay. And to the left
18 is Mr. Suiter's residence?
19 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: Property?
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
22 MR. KLINE: You know that Mr.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 185 1 Renchard is here today as an abutting property
2 owner protesting the application, correct?
3 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
4 MR. KLINE: What's your
5 understanding of the property that he owns
6 that abuts your property?
7 MS. PREVITE: As far as I
8 understand, I mean Saint Ex is the main
9 tenant, the big -- then there's a few other --
10 there seemed to be like a vintage clothing
11 store, a barber shop and I believe there's one
12 tenant somewhere in the building. I've been
13 told he's on the second floor, but that his
14 windows face 14th Street. So I mean --
15 MR. KLINE: All right. But it's
16 the building as you're facing the front of
17 your building to the right of your premises,
18 correct?
19 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: So when the
21 investigator testified that it was the
22 building to the left of your premises, she was
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 186 1 presumably mistaken?
2 MS. PREVITE: I believe so.
3 MR. KLINE: Okay.
4 MS. PREVITE: To my knowledge.
5 MR. KLINE: Great. That's all the
6 questions I have of this witness at this time.
7 Thank you.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
9 you. Mr. Renchard?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you. I have
11 several. I also have been passed some paper
12 here as well.
13 Your architect, is he licensed in
14 D.C.?
15 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
16 MR. KLINE: Objection. Relevance.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Sustained.
18 MR. RENCHARD: The other question
19 I have, do you know there is a zoning FAR
20 requirement for build-out on a property?
21 MR. KLINE: Objection. Relevance.
22 MR. RENCHARD: It has to do so far
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 187 1 as your kitchen is concerned.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Does it have
3 to do with peace and quiet?
4 MR. RENCHARD: The extension of
5 the kitchen. It comes out to 70 percent of
6 the lot.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay. It
8 has to do with whether she's going to be
9 able --
10 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- to do
12 what's presenting that she --
13 MR. RENCHARD: Exactly.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- intends to
15 do? Okay.
16 MR. RENCHARD: And she --
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'll let you
18 ask it.
19 MR. RENCHARD: -- it's a question
20 I do have to her --
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
22 MS. PREVITE: I'm not an expert on
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 188 1 any of this, but I -- yes, he's told us about
2 the -- that there's requirements for the
3 building in the back. Is that your question?
4 MR. RENCHARD: That is it. There
5 is requirements?
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, the
7 question.
8 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, that was the
9 question to her.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Do you know there
12 is requirements so far as the FAR outlay as
13 far as building 70 percent of the property
14 line? Not your property, but Mr. Holmes'
15 property.
16 Also in reference to some --
17 that's number -- those are the questions I
18 had.
19 Let me just mention here on the
20 drawings that were provided, you referred to
21 an alley. Do you refer -- the section of area
22 behind your summer garden and to the Source
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 189 1 Theatre, do you consider that an alley?
2 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
3 MR. RENCHARD: That's public space
4 area.
5 MR. KLINE: Objection.
6 MR. RENCHARD: Disagree.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that a
8 question, or are you disagreeing, because you
9 can't disagree with the witness. Just
10 question.
11 MR. RENCHARD: No, I mean as far
12 as his objection, I disagree. I wanted her --
13 did she know that she treated this as an
14 alley? This is --
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right, you
16 can ask that question, but then when she
17 answers --
18 MR. KLINE: And she answered it.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- don't say
20 whether you agree with her or not. That's
21 testimony. So just ask her.
22 MR. RENCHARD: Do you consider
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 190 1 this an alley?
2 MR. KLINE: Objection. Asked and
3 answered.
4 MR. RENCHARD: I asked a question.
5 MR. KLINE: And she answered it.
6 MR. RENCHARD: What was the
7 answer?
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did you
9 answer the question? It's getting confusing.
10 MS. PREVITE: I said yes, I call
11 it an alley.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
13 MR. RENCHARD: It's not an alley.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You'll have
15 your chance to testify.
16 MR. RENCHARD: Okay.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You're asking
18 her questions.
19 MR. RENCHARD: All right. I just
20 want -- be aware of that.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
22 MR. RENCHARD: These form letters
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 191 1 that you have in your packet here, did you
2 write them for the people?
3 MS. PREVITE: They're not all form
4 letters, but some of them --
5 MR. RENCHARD: The form letters.
6 MS. PREVITE: -- I did create the
7 text and some of the people just signed after
8 we met and talked about it. But not -- some
9 of them I know.
10 MR. RENCHARD: Would you have any
11 objection if the ones that are forms were
12 removed?
13 MR. KLINE: Objection. Improper
14 question.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: They've
16 already been entered into evidence. So go on.
17 MR. RENCHARD: Yes. Your disposal
18 of bottles, would you consider moving your
19 time to 9:00 versus 10:00?
20 MS. PREVITE: Just like when we
21 had coffee, I told you absolutely. If that's
22 easier for the neighborhood, 9:00 is not a big
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 192 1 deal.
2 MR. RENCHARD: No. The next
3 objection -- next question I have, would you
4 object to the music in the rear?
5 MS. PREVITE: Do I object to the
6 music?
7 MR. RENCHARD: To having music in
8 the rear.
9 MS. PREVITE: Well, like I said,
10 being mindful of my settlement agreement and
11 what we've agreed on with the other neighbors,
12 I have agreed to play very soft background
13 music and I would like to keep that.
14 MR. RENCHARD: Okay.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I couldn't
16 hear the end of your testimony.
17 MS. PREVITE: Sorry. I just was
18 saying as being mindful and remembering the
19 settlement agreement, we've already agreed to
20 doing -- with many neighbors to do the soft
21 recorded background music in the back, and so
22 I plan on doing that.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 193 1 MR. RENCHARD: Would you agree to
2 lessen your 11:00 p.m. hour for the summer
3 garden?
4 MS. PREVITE: No. Again, going
5 with what's in the -- following the settlement
6 agreement, I'm going to stick to the 11:00
7 during the week.
8 MR. RENCHARD: Those are my
9 questions.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Any
11 Board questions? Mr. Silverstein?
12 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I defer to my
13 friend, Mr. Jones.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr. Jones?
15 MEMBER JONES: Thank you, Madam
16 Chair and Board Member Silverstein.
17 Good night.
18 MS. PREVITE: I know.
19 MEMBER JONES: Good evening,
20 ma'am. First I want to say I applaud your
21 concept here. I definitely appreciate this
22 and appreciate the thought and the enthusiasm
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 194 1 with which are here today. With that being
2 said, I have some serious concerns that I'd
3 like to try and get clarification on as it
4 relates to peace, order and quiet, because
5 that's -- my understanding is one of the main
6 reasons why we're here.
7 As I understand your business
8 concept, it's to be more of a restaurant than
9 it is to be a nightclub from the standpoint of
10 the flavor of license type that you've chosen.
11 Do you understand that what you are presenting
12 yourself here today as a license type as a
13 tavern?
14 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
15 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Do you
16 understand the nuance of that versus a
17 restaurant license?
18 MS. PREVITE: I do, yes.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. What I'm
20 hearing in terms of your business concept is
21 that you seem to really have an enthusiasm for
22 the food and you want to be able to serve
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 195 1 food, but you do not feel like a restaurant
2 license would serve you better in that
3 instance. Can you explain why?
4 MS. PREVITE: Sure, I can. My
5 business partner Michael Schuster who's going
6 to come up is much better at explaining that.
7 But just briefly; and I think he'll do a
8 better job with it, it is -- I know the
9 difference between the licenses is the
10 percentage of food that you have to sell and
11 with small businesses the concern is always
12 being kept to this amount of food. And a lot
13 of businesses anecdotally that I've spoken to
14 have really suffered from that component,
15 because when you're smaller it's hard to
16 reach. So for us it's just a financial
17 decision, not having a quota on how much food
18 will help our business model.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Would it be
20 incorrect to say that you would appreciate the
21 additional flexibility that you have with a CT
22 license versus a CR license?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 196 1 MS. PREVITE: That's correct.
2 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Thank you
3 for that. In terms of the drawing packages
4 that were provided, I understand that these
5 are preliminary, but I'm looking at Applicant
6 Exhibit 1.
7 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
8 MEMBER JONES: And I see in here
9 on Applicant Exhibit 1 there's an item that's
10 titled -- or numbered 7, 11 and 12.
11 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: And that area is
13 designated as the kitchen --
14 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
15 MEMBER JONES: -- and based on
16 what I believe I heard you testify to, is that
17 correct?
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
19 MEMBER JONES: Now this area is
20 going to be built out from the existing fixed
21 structure that is currently in place?
22 MS. PREVITE: They're not going to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 197 1 be attached.
2 MEMBER JONES: Excuse me?
3 MS. PREVITE: They're not going to
4 be attached.
5 MEMBER JONES: So the kitchen is
6 not going to be attached to the main building?
7 MS. PREVITE: No, it's a separate
8 structure.
9 MEMBER JONES: It's a separate
10 structure? So help me. Walk me through that
11 on Applicant's Exhibit 1 where there appears
12 to be a wall --
13 MS. PREVITE: Oh, it does, but --
14 MEMBER JONES: -- that's
15 connecting to the back of the building. I
16 understand that there's no ingress or egress
17 between the kitchen and the main building. It
18 looks like you would exit out of item 7, go
19 out of item 7, walk up item 4, go into item
20 10 --
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
22 MEMBER JONES: -- and then serve
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 198 1 your patrons from there.
2 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
3 MEMBER JONES: Am I understanding
4 that correctly?
5 MS. PREVITE: You are.
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So the
7 kitchen area, if I understand it, is actually
8 -- one of the walls of the kitchen area is
9 formed by the existing wall that's already in
10 place.
11 MS. PREVITE: No, I'm sorry, it
12 does look like that --
13 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
14 MS. PREVITE: -- but they're not
15 attached.
16 MEMBER JONES: They're not
17 attached? Okay. How large do you envision
18 this kitchen to be?
19 MS. PREVITE: I'm trying to
20 remember from our sketches, because it was
21 based on the amount of equipment, and we have
22 a lot of equipment and appliances we want to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 199 1 fit inside. I'm going to let Mike give you
2 the exact measurements, if that's all right.
3 MEMBER JONES: And that's totally
4 fine. If you're comfortable answering, that's
5 totally fine.
6 MS. PREVITE: Yes, because I don't
7 remember the -- I think he remembers the
8 footage better than I do.
9 MEMBER JONES: That's fine. From
10 the standpoint of the entertainment, the DJ
11 and so forth, you mentioned you plan on having
12 a DJ, you plan on having music outside as well
13 as inside, and you plan on having live music
14 as well. Live bands? Live music?
15 MS. PREVITE: Right, that are
16 three instruments or less.
17 MEMBER JONES: Three instruments
18 or less? Okay. Where in your establishment
19 based on Applicant Exhibit 1, page 1 and page
20 2, would the DJ booth be? Where would the
21 live band be or the live music be?
22 MS. PREVITE: I mean we haven't
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 200 1 determined for certain, but my vision is those
2 are -- primarily the DJ would be used -- and
3 when I say "DJ," we mean kind of a like a guy
4 with an iPod more than we mean a turntable-
5 type situation. And really typically we'd
6 only like the flexibility to have special
7 events, which I think our basement level is
8 going to work out really nice for basement
9 evens. So my vision is probably having any
10 kind of, you know entertainer in the basement,
11 which of course -- like, yes. That's what I'm
12 envisioning.
13 MEMBER JONES: The basement area?
14 In your vision as you see this playing out in
15 your business plan and your concept, the DJ
16 would be localized more so in the basement?
17 MS. PREVITE: Yes, because there's
18 very little space on the first floor.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
20 MS. PREVITE: So I think it's just
21 -- and most of the special events, I feel like
22 I'd love people to be able to rent out the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 201 1 downstairs for fund raisers and community
2 events, and it just lends itself to that
3 better I think.
4 MEMBER JONES: Okay. But would
5 the music be piped, if you will, from that
6 basement location throughout your commercial
7 area of your establishment; i.e., first floor,
8 second floor and outdoors?
9 MS. PREVITE: I hadn't really
10 thought too much about it.
11 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
12 MS. PREVITE: But if any speakers,
13 like I said before, that we'd be using would
14 be pretested and the level would be already
15 approved with the neighbors.
16 MEMBER JONES: Understood. From
17 the standpoint of how you plan to operate your
18 establishment -- so your kitchen -- let me ask
19 you this: Do you have any idea as to whether
20 or not the picture of Applicant Exhibit 1,
21 page 1, of the kitchen -- is this drawing
22 intended to be drawn to scale in any way,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 202 1 shape or form?
2 MS. PREVITE: No. I'm sorry, this
3 is so preliminary.
4 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
5 MS. PREVITE: This is just giving
6 us an idea of the layout.
7 MEMBER JONES: Okay. From the
8 standpoint of your food storage, if you will
9 -- so items in a kitchen, you have them,
10 they're not cooked, you're going to cook food?
11 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: You seem to have a
13 love for food, so I genuinely believe that you
14 will be putting your heart and soul into the
15 preparation of this food, that it will be
16 delicious.
17 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
18 MEMBER JONES: Right? But in the
19 meantime there's going to be some food that
20 you're going to have in your establishment
21 that is not prepared that has to stored in
22 refrigerators and whatnot. Is all of that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 203 1 going to be localized in the kitchen?
2 MS. PREVITE: There will be a lot
3 of refrigeration in the kitchen. The other
4 space we're talking about doing it is in the
5 basement in the back, having some extra
6 refrigeration. You'll see number -- if you go
7 the basement floor plan on page 2 of Exhibit
8 1, where you see 3, 5, 4, 6, 5, where we don't
9 have anymore tables, that's where we're going
10 to work in. There are already two bathrooms,
11 but we're going to remodel the bathrooms and
12 possibly add refrigeration there.
13 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So
14 conceptually you're talking about adding food
15 storage in area 6, or you're talking about
16 you're going to get rid of one of the
17 bathrooms that appears in this drawing on page
18 2 of Applicant Exhibit 1 and have that be used
19 for food storage?
20 MS. PREVITE: No, we're not going
21 to get rid of any bathrooms.
22 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 204 1 MS. PREVITE: It would be more
2 over where the six is.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So you're
4 going to have in that area -- so if you -- if
5 I'm looking at this drawing correctly, area 6,
6 there's a folding door that closes off area 6
7 from the emergency exit point in this drawing.
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
9 MEMBER JONES: So area 6 I notice
10 isn't drawn to scale, but it looks pretty
11 small.
12 MS. PREVITE: Oh, yes. I mean it
13 -- I'm again not sure of the square footage,
14 but the whole space is small. We're going to
15 be doing some very creative maneuvers in here
16 completely. So, yes, it is small, but for a
17 refrigerator or two, I'm pretty sure that we
18 can fit it.
19 MEMBER JONES: Okay. For the
20 number of seats that you have and the amount
21 of turnover that you expect, do you have any
22 feel for the amount of food you would have to
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 205 1 be able to have on site in order to maintain
2 a restaurant-type environment?
3 MS. PREVITE: How much food? No,
4 I'm --
5 MEMBER JONES: Yes, because I'm
6 kind of concerned. I don't really -- it's not
7 closing for me right now in terms of the
8 amount of storage that you have for your food
9 versus the amount of patrons that you have to
10 service with that food that you'd have stored.
11 I don't see where in this layout you'd have
12 enough space to support that. I'm no
13 restaurant expert by any stretch of the
14 imagination, but I'm trying to get some
15 feedback from you as to how this closes in
16 terms of being able to operate a restaurant-
17 type establishment. And if you don't know,
18 it's fine. I know this is early on. I'm just
19 trying to get an understanding of your concept
20 here.
21 MS. PREVITE: Sure.
22 MEMBER JONES: So there's that.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 206 1 And there's also in terms of you're going to
2 -- I'm assuming you're going to be serving
3 your patrons on -- would it be -- what kind of
4 food -- what kind of items would you be
5 serving your patrons? I'm not talking about
6 the food items themselves. Are you going to
7 have dishes? You going to have plates? Are
8 they going to be paper plates? Fine China?
9 What types of things would you anticipate
10 serving your patrons on?
11 MS. PREVITE: Again, this is very
12 early and we haven't made a lot of these
13 decisions yet, but in our early talks we have
14 talked about -- again, being that it's street
15 food, we're going to try to be really creative
16 with the presentation and avoid formal glass
17 plates and things like that. Some of it's
18 going to come in paper. Some of it's going to
19 come in baskets. Some of it's going to come
20 on wood cheese boards, that type of thing.
21 MEMBER JONES: Got it. Okay.
22 MS. PREVITE: So a little more
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 207 1 non-traditional.
2 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So from a
3 standpoint of storage of your flatware or
4 items you would be serving your patrons on,
5 you don't have a need for having space for
6 those type things? Because I don't see space
7 here designated for those types of items.
8 MS. PREVITE: Not nearly as much
9 as --
10 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
11 MS. PREVITE: -- for a larger
12 place, no.
13 MEMBER JONES: Likewise for just
14 incidentals, in terms of like trash bags and
15 things that you would need in order -- the
16 daily operation of an establishment that you
17 really wouldn't want your customers to be
18 cognizant of and have to deal with, it doesn't
19 seem like you have a designated storage area
20 for those types of things. And I don't see
21 that you have room for it necessarily in the
22 layout that you have. Is this something that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 208 1 I'm just overlooking or is it something that
2 just needs -- it's too early on and you're
3 going to give it more thought later?
4 MS. PREVITE: Well, it is just too
5 early on. I think if we had more detailed
6 drawings, you'd be amazed. I've lived in
7 small spaces so long, I can fit a lot in a
8 tiny little space. You'd be amazed what a bar
9 holds behind there. So, yes, it is early on,
10 but we are just going to be incredibly
11 creative with the space and the storage.
12 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And in terms
13 of the soundproofing and the things that you
14 said you've considered and some of the
15 concessions that you've made in terms of the
16 voluntary agreements that you mentioned,
17 there's a cost factor associated with
18 soundproofing and these things that you've
19 mentioned that you're going to do in terms of
20 putting a cover over the outdoor seating area
21 and what have you. Have you investigated the
22 reasonableness of the cost versus the
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 209 1 application of being able to do this, or are
2 these things that you -- I'll ask you
3 candidly: Did you blindly agree to these
4 things without making a cost assessment?
5 MS. PREVITE: Absolutely not.
6 Mike Schuster would leave my partnership in a
7 minute. I'm going to let you talk more
8 numbers to him. His experience is amazing and
9 we have a tight budget and he keeps me in
10 line.
11 MEMBER JONES: All right.
12 MS. PREVITE: So don't worry about
13 that.
14 MEMBER JONES: And lastly, though
15 maybe this is a question better served for
16 somebody else -- but the item -- in terms of
17 the entryway into the residential area --
18 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
19 MEMBER JONES: -- it looks like
20 when you initially went over this in item 1 --
21 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
22 MEMBER JONES: -- you have an
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 210 1 ingress outside. There's only one main
2 ingress/egress to the commercial part of your
3 establishment.
4 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
5 MEMBER JONES: And then in the
6 foyer area there's the entranceway to the
7 residential area upstairs.
8 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
9 MEMBER JONES: And from what you
10 understand that would pass muster as far as
11 D.C. is concerned, as far as the regulations
12 are concerned?
13 MS. PREVITE: As far as I know.
14 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And do you
15 have any mechanism by which you would look to
16 from the operations standpoint to regulate
17 your patrons from entering that area?
18 MS. PREVITE: From entering the --
19 MEMBER JONES: I'm sorry, entering
20 the residential area component.
21 MS. PREVITE: I mean the door
22 would totally be looked. I mean there's that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 211 1 separate door to the residence.
2 MEMBER JONES: Yes.
3 MS. PREVITE: That will be locked
4 at all times. So I mean do you mean could the
5 customers go up that way?
6 MEMBER JONES: What would prevent
7 the customers from going in and out of that
8 door and up to the second and third floor at
9 the latest operating hours that you have, like
10 11:30 or 11:00, whatever the case may be?
11 MS. PREVITE: I mean it will be
12 locked at all times. And I mean we have
13 discussed having here someone to great people
14 at the door and a manager will always be on
15 duty. And again, the space is so small, you
16 kind of always know what's going on. But I
17 mean I hope the locked door is enough.
18 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
19 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
20 MEMBER JONES: Just more of a
21 curiosity question there.
22 MS. PREVITE: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 212 1 MEMBER JONES: And I notice you
2 have a bar area. How important is alcohol
3 sales? How important is alcohol to your
4 concept?
5 MS. PREVITE: It's important.
6 MEMBER JONES: Could you put a
7 percentage? Is it --
8 MS. PREVITE: Again, I'll have to
9 let Mike do the -- he has all the exact
10 percentages.
11 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
12 MS. PREVITE: I don't want to give
13 you the wrong number. But, yes, the
14 cocktails, the Georgian wine that we want to
15 D.C. is a big component of our business plan.
16 MEMBER JONES: All right. Fair
17 enough. Then I will hold off on the rest of
18 my questions for later. Thank you.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Do you
20 have questions?
21 (No audible response.)
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I just have a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 213 1 couple, or a few.
2 Are you going to have a private
3 kitchen upstairs?
4 MS. PREVITE: In the residence?
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
6 MS. PREVITE: Yes, there already
7 is.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: There already
9 is one? Okay. And you're the chef, too?
10 MS. PREVITE: No, I am an advisor.
11 We're going to be hiring a chef. And we've
12 already consulted with a couple of chefs in
13 the early stages, talked with them to help
14 design the kitchen and help put the menu
15 together.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And I
17 thought you pointed out some things and I want
18 to make sure that I got it. Especially the
19 basement, I thought you said there were some
20 architectural elements that were thought about
21 or went to the soundproofing. Was there
22 something in particular?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 214 1 MS. PREVITE: In the basement?
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: In the
3 basement, first floor, I don't know.
4 MS. PREVITE: I kind of think of
5 the basement as just more soundproof in
6 general --
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
8 MS. PREVITE: -- because we don't
9 have residential or either side down there,
10 you know, in the ground. But the same tile
11 pattern that we're discussing, or the same
12 kind of materials in some form would be used
13 on the walls down there. So it will look like
14 just the upstairs.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that tile
16 pattern just for look, or does that absorb
17 sound more than other types of materials?
18 MS. PREVITE: It was a way to
19 absorb sound that looked nice.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
21 MS. PREVITE: We're considering,
22 not -- you know, most likely we're going to be
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 215 1 using it, but he's still researching other
2 soundproofing materials that are aesthetically
3 pleasing.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
5 I'm under the impression that you're very
6 vested in this building and in this
7 neighborhood because you're both living there
8 and having a business there and you're
9 catering it -- you intend to cater it. Not
10 cater in the word -- ABC word, but to the
11 neighborhood basically. Is that right? But
12 you want --
13 MS. PREVITE: Yes, that's what we
14 believe in, yes.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: First and
16 foremost?
17 MS. PREVITE: Yes, our primary
18 group is hopefully just folks in the
19 neighborhood. Yes.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. All
21 right. So it's now 8:23 and just from my
22 perspective I'd want to say that I know that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 216 1 it was important to get into the record
2 exactly how the operation was going to work
3 and etcetera, but when I look at the protest,
4 it seems a pretty narrow question as to
5 whether this is going to have an adverse
6 impact on the abutting property owner. And it
7 seems to me that I came into this hearing with
8 the impression that you were going to be open
9 outside until 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning.
10 And how I'm hearing that, no, it's 11:00 and
11 11:30. And I think that I was reviewing the
12 PIF and I know that at least for one of those,
13 either weekday or weekends, that Mr. Renchard
14 was asking for 10:00.
15 So, all right. This all goes to
16 the fact that I hope that we can maybe narrow
17 the focus somewhat so that we're not here
18 until 10:00, not to -- you are entitled to put
19 on your full case, but it just looks to me
20 like what the Board would be looking at is
21 that impact on your particular abutting
22 property. And also we came in -- I think I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 217 1 came in with the impression it was the other
2 side of the building, and now we're supposed
3 to be focusing on Saint Ex's side. So I would
4 just suggest that that would be the most
5 relevant focus. But, you know, it's your
6 guys' case within the time constraints that
7 you have.
8 Okay. That's all for me.
9 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, I appreciate
10 your concern.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
12 MR. RENCHARD: My objective of
13 coming here was the protest of peace, order
14 and quietness.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right. And
16 so when we get to your case --
17 MR. RENCHARD: I was not concerned
18 with the four walls inside, because that's all
19 DCRA.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Well,
21 I think we're almost at your case, but we have
22 one more -- one more witness?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 218 1 MR. KLINE: One more witness, and
2 we'll try to make it quick.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
4 MR. RENCHARD: That's going to be
5 concerning --
6 MEMBER JONES: Now --
7 MR. RENCHARD: I question if
8 that's going to be reference to peace, noise
9 and quiet or is that going to be reference to
10 the building?
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, let's
12 see.
13 MR. RENCHARD: I think those are
14 separate issues.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Let's see.
16 MR. RENCHARD: One is dealing with
17 cost in a case like this.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
19 unless there's any follow up Board questions,
20 then this witness can be excused. Is there
21 any?
22 (No audible response.)
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 219 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
2 you.
3 MR. KLINE: Call to the stand Mike
4 Schuster.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Good evening.
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Good evening.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I would like
8 to swear you in.
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Okay.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you swear
11 to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
12 but the truth?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: I do.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you.
15 Okay.
16 MR. KLINE: State your name for
17 the record, please?
18 MR. SCHUSTER: It's Michael
19 Schuster.
20 MR. KLINE: And you are involved
21 in this venture, Compass Rose?
22 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 220 1 MR. KLINE: How so?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: Fifty percent
3 partner with Rose.
4 MR. KLINE: And in terms of your
5 role, front of the house, back of the house,
6 Rose's role, what's the organization here?
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Rose is definitely
8 more front of the house. I'll be more back of
9 the house with a transition, you know, towards
10 her doing a little bit more of everything.
11 Right now I'm kind of an overall advisor as
12 well in the front of the house. We have other
13 consultants that are partners of mine at other
14 establishments that will be assisting us in
15 some of the more unique things like kitchens.
16 MR. KLINE: All right. You
17 referenced other establishments. You're
18 involved in other establishments?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct. I have
20 four ABC licenses in D.C.
21 MR. KLINE: And those are of
22 course in the names of various entities?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 221 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
2 MR. KLINE: All right. And are
3 all different entities?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct. All CT.
5 MR. KLINE: All CT licenses?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
7 MR. KLINE: And you've been
8 involved in the opening of these CT
9 businesses?
10 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
11 MR. KLINE: To get right to Mr.
12 Jones' concern in terms of back of the house,
13 storage, the issues, the nuts and bolts of
14 running this operation, what would you say to
15 Mr. Jones and the other Board Members about
16 the concerns that he's raised with respect to
17 lack of space and how this business is going
18 to run?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, two things:
20 One is in terms of the CT. That is definitely
21 having options and financially based. This
22 will be as much of a tavern as a restaurant,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 222 1 I believe, in terms of sales. The overall
2 feel I think will be very, very food-centric,
3 but there will also be a lot of alcoholic
4 offerings. What I've found in my other
5 smaller establishments is it's very difficult
6 even if you're trying. Unless you're a
7 restaurant restaurant with a big, big kitchen,
8 it's very difficult to do enough food to
9 satisfy the 40 or; I don't know what it's at
10 right now, 45 percent requirement. I know
11 there's other requirements that can offset
12 that. In terms of, you know -- and there's
13 also the two-hour close limitation, I believe,
14 too, with how long you have to serve food.
15 With a very small establishment, every penny
16 counts in terms of staff, labor. We need a
17 small kitchen, you know, for what we're going
18 to be able to gross, whether we have the best
19 food or not. You know, and that's just our
20 business model.
21 In terms of the space, you would
22 be surprised what you can fit in a small space
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 223 1 in terms of a kitchen. We have for essential
2 purposes in one of my other locations,
3 Trusty's, a kitchen behind the bar. And the
4 bar I'd say is maybe 15 seats, 20 seats maybe.
5 And we do have a little prep area in the back
6 in a, you know, closet maybe the size of what
7 you were referring to, maybe a little bigger.
8 And I'll also add that this is our ideal
9 maximum seats we could get. What you're
10 looking at now, it's preliminary. We got to
11 go back and revisit it. Hey, do we have all
12 of our operational needs? If not, a couple of
13 those seats are going to have to move and
14 we'll box it in and have more storage.
15 But it is something that -- and I
16 apologize for not having talked over all this
17 Rose, you know, to the extent that I maybe
18 should have at that point. We've been so
19 caught up in all of this. We have months to
20 do that.
21 MR. KLINE: But this is really
22 your role in terms of opening the business,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 224 1 correct?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely.
3 MR. KLINE: Because you've done
4 this before?
5 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely.
6 MR. KLINE: Now to cut to the
7 quick, because it is late and --
8 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
9 MR. KLINE: -- we've been here a
10 long time, it seems -- I think the Chair is
11 correct in terms of the issue that the
12 Protestant has raised. We're talking about
13 the hours in the rear summer garden.
14 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
15 MR. KLINE: That seems to be the
16 bone of contention, correct?
17 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
18 MR. KLINE: You've already made
19 concessions with respect to that in the
20 settlement agreement, right?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
22 MR. KLINE: If you were to make
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 225 1 further concessions or the Board in an order
2 were to further limit the hours for the summer
3 garden area, what effect would that have on
4 your business plan? Is that a dollars and
5 cents issue?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Sure.
7 MR. KLINE: Is it a perception
8 issue? What is it?
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Well, I mean it's a
10 little of both, but dollars and cents for
11 sure. I mean every hour, especially when
12 we're talking about those hours, which I still
13 think are prime hours out there -- our
14 operation will still be open past those hours
15 inside. If we're allowed to have 15-20 people
16 out there, you figure about 15-20 bucks an
17 hour for each one of those people. He's
18 requesting I think a total of about 12 hours
19 off of what we completely have. So I'd say
20 we're in the range of probably 125K to 175.
21 MR. RENCHARD: A year?
22 MR. SCHUSTER: A year.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 226 1 MR. KLINE: A year in terms of --
2 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, in terms of
3 lost sales, lost revenue.
4 MR. KLINE: In terms of lost
5 sales?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, not profit.
7 Lost revenue.
8 MR. KLINE: Okay. I think that's
9 all the questions I have of this witness at
10 this time.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you.
12 Okay. Mr. Renchard?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Would you have any
14 objection of turning -- of not having any
15 music in the back? In the summer garden. Beg
16 your pardon.
17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, I think like
18 we said, there's -- we feel like the
19 settlement agreement we've already, you know,
20 agreed to stands, and we believe there is the
21 D.C. Code in place. You know, if we're too
22 loud, we're in violation, so we can't be.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 227 1 MR. RENCHARD: The front of the
2 establishment of 1346 is not allowed to have
3 any music in front, is that correct?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
5 MR. RENCHARD: And you're allowed
6 to have music inside --
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
8 MR. RENCHARD: -- with a three-
9 piece --
10 MR. SCHUSTER: And we're talking
11 about just --
12 MR. RENCHARD: -- combo? You're
13 allowed to have that?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, and we're
15 talking about just recorded music in the back,
16 correct?
17 MR. RENCHARD: I know what
18 you're --
19 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. In the back
20 it's only recorded music. No live music, no
21 -- nothing like that.
22 MR. RENCHARD: Okay.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 228 1 MR. SCHUSTER: It's basically
2 background music.
3 MR. RENCHARD: I'd still like to
4 come back to the 10:00.
5 MR. SCHUSTER: Sure.
6 MR. RENCHARD: Because that has to
7 do with the sleeping quarters of people who
8 use the rear of their buildings to sleep, to
9 reside. I mean that's just the reason. By
10 coming to about 1:00 in the morning, it makes
11 it inconvenient for them. Naturally they'll
12 hear your noise. And also I have other people
13 down the block next -- across the street who
14 have also questioned in this case if they
15 could cut it back to 10:00.
16 MR. KLINE: Objection. If Mr.
17 Renchard is going to testify, I'd like to get
18 him on the stand under oath.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr.
20 Renchard --
21 MR. RENCHARD: Put me on the
22 stand. That's fine.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 229 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: But no, you
2 will be -- I think you will be testifying, I
3 don't know, but this is a time for just
4 questions.
5 MR. RENCHARD: But the noise is a
6 factor. You will not consider closing it down
7 at 10:00 at all?
8 MR. KLINE: Objection. Asked and
9 answered.
10 MR. RENCHARD: I asked the --
11 okay.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I don't know
13 if he answered. I know she answered. Did
14 you?
15 MR. KLINE: He answered, too.
16 MR. SCHUSTER: I'll answer again.
17 No. The settlement agreement, we believe
18 we've already made accommodations to mitigate
19 that noise. And if there are still issues,
20 like Rose has already stated, we're going to
21 work with people to resolve them. I have an
22 establishment, Trusty's, that has an open-air
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 230 1 roof and we're able to mitigate it. And I
2 have testimony from ANC commissioners or
3 letters stating as much. And we have full
4 hours there until 2:00 and 3:00 in the
5 morning.
6 MR. RENCHARD: What was your cost
7 for the loss of business for that one hour
8 period of time?
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Say probably
10 between 15 and 20.
11 MR. RENCHARD: Fifteen to twenty?
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Dollars.
13 MR. RENCHARD: Dollars. Per day?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: Per hour.
15 MR. RENCHARD: Per hour?
16 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. Per person.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's
18 different. Okay.
19 MR. RENCHARD: Thank you.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Any
21 Board questions? Mr. Silverstein?
22 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Thank you,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 231 1 Mr. Schuster. Thanks for doing business in
2 the District of Columbia.
3 What protections are you offering
4 the people next door from noise in the back
5 after say 12:00?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: I think it's -- you
7 know, like it's been discussed, I don't have
8 the exact architectural or sound engineering
9 answers to that. We're too early in the
10 process and honestly we are too early in the
11 process because we're not going to spend the
12 money until we know what's going on.
13 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I'm sorry?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: We're not going to
15 spend all the money until we know what's going
16 on to do that. But we have agreed in our
17 settlement agreements to have a sound engineer
18 to do things like that and reasonably use his
19 recommendations. I don't have the exact
20 verbiage. And that's especially for the
21 outside. And what Rose was speaking to in
22 terms of having those panels and things like
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 232 1 that and options trying to collect the noise
2 and keep it down. You know, those type of
3 things we're absolutely, you know, going to do
4 everything in our power to do.
5
6 Having run other businesses and
7 knowing, you know, angry neighbors, things
8 like that, it's not what we strive for.
9 Whether there's legal reason or actions they
10 can take or not, Rose is going to have a lot
11 to do to run this business successfully. And
12 you don't need the same issue happening over
13 and over again. We got to work together and
14 fix it. So if, you know, it's to the point
15 where the music or whatever is causing issues,
16 we're going to have to change what we're
17 doing.
18 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: The summer
19 garden is going to be open in the back until
20 1:00 on weekends?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, 1:00 on Friday
22 and Saturday. 11:00 during the week.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 233 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh. I
2 thought she said 11:30.
3 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: A lot of
4 establishments in that area have the 11:00 and
5 12:00 paradigm.
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
7 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: 11:00 on
8 weekdays, midnight on weekends.
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: How serious
11 an issue would that be to --
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Like I said, I mean
13 I'm not trying to, you know, pad these things.
14 I think honestly it's a $15-dollar-you-know-
15 a-person-type of deal when you're talking
16 about Friday, Saturday. If you have 20 people
17 back there for an extra hour, it's a
18 substantial cost when you're talking about the
19 square footage that we have. And we've worked
20 very -- you know, Rose and myself with the
21 ANC. These numbers weren't arbitrary. I know
22 some people still don't agree with them, but
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 234 1 a lot of people have given the stuff that we
2 put in the settlement agreement with the
3 contingencies. But I understand, you know?
4 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: It's our job.
5 It's everyone's job to try to balance --
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely. I
7 agree with that.
8 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: -- these
9 things and make them work and we're not
10 prejudging this.
11 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
12 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: And at this
13 point you do not know how much noise the
14 people in the back might create, if there's an
15 echo effect or anything like that. You know
16 you're going to be putting up these panels
17 that you would hope would muffle things. But
18 beyond that at this point we're --
19 MR. SCHUSTER: I'm basically
20 going --
21 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: -- making
22 conjectures based on other conjectures based
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 235 1 on a third level of conjecture.
2 MR. SCHUSTER: You know, I
3 understand. I feel given what we've done at
4 other places and especially at Trusty's with
5 the roof; and it's not quite the same, but we
6 do have walls and we have an alley with all
7 residents behind us. You know, so --
8 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Walls are not
9 necessarily your friend when you're trying to
10 muffle noise.
11 MR. SCHUSTER: I understand, but
12 what I'm saying is we've had no issues over
13 there based on things that we've done. And so
14 I'm hoping that, you know, it should be a
15 similar condition there.
16 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Is there --
17 MR. SCHUSTER: We have other
18 patios and outdoor space, you know, that we
19 have neighbors around.
20 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Is there any
21 possibility you would open this place before
22 you have permission for a build-out for a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 236 1 kitchen?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: No. I mean the
3 business model is food and it's -- you know,
4 we've done the preliminary research on the
5 code and we believe what you're looking at can
6 be done in at least a ballpark fashion.
7 That's part of the overall concept. We feel
8 -- I have food at all of my other places. I
9 don't need to because I have a tavern license.
10 I have kitchens, full kitchens at all my other
11 he places.
12 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: So you're
13 representing to us here that you will not open
14 without a kitchen?
15 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. And I believe
16 in the settlement agreement it says we have to
17 have a kitchen.
18 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Very well.
19 No further questions.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
21 Jones, do you have any questions?
22 MEMBER JONES: Yes, ma'am. Thank
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 237 1 you.
2 From your vision what's the
3 emphasis going to be of the establishment? I
4 mean is it more of a restaurant or more of a
5 nightclub?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Definitely not a
7 nightclub. Can you define kind of nightclub?
8 That can mean --
9 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So as you
10 envision it -- you're a 50 percent owner of
11 this --
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
13 MEMBER JONES: -- establishment,
14 correct? How do you envision it being
15 operated? Do you see more of an emphasis on
16 food and food sales, or more of an emphasis on
17 liquor, alcohol and alcohol sales?
18 MR. SCHUSTER: Okay. I think
19 honestly there's an emphasis on both. We're
20 going to have a full bar. You know, it's
21 going to be 10 seats and we're going to have
22 a full menu. And what I found at the places
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 238 1 that we have, like I said, all taverns that
2 serve food, is it usually ends up anywhere
3 from 80/20 at the far end, 80 percent alcohol.
4 But most of it's more beer for our places and
5 here will be a lot of wine, not as much
6 liquor. And I think the best we've done is
7 probably almost 60/40.
8 You know, so it's going to be --
9 sales-wise it's definitely going to be more
10 tavern-based, if that's how you're looking at
11 it. To me though, you know, our food isn't
12 going to be that expensive and feel-wise I
13 think it's going to be just as much of a
14 restaurant. But the sales are going to be
15 jaded towards a tavern.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So from a
17 sales standpoint percentage-wise you
18 definitely --
19 MR. SCHUSTER: I think the best we
20 could do --
21 MEMBER JONES: -- more heavily --
22 going to be more heavily dependent upon --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 239 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely.
2 MEMBER JONES: -- alcohol than you
3 are anything?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: Probably the best
5 we'd be able to do is 60/40.
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay. In your
7 vision how does entertainment fit into the
8 mix?
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Entertainment --
10 MEMBER JONES: Why do you need
11 entertainment for your establishment?
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Entertainment was
13 more for the community neighborhood-type of
14 thing. We've had things at Trusty's and other
15 locations where 20 people want to come in and
16 it's a birthday party or it's whatever and
17 they have a special person they want to have.
18 Because of the new laws and everything else,
19 we try to be above board. We obviously are.
20 You got to go to the ANC and get permission
21 and all these things and timing-wise it makes
22 it very difficult to be able to accommodate
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 240 1 these people. We're not looking to do -- and
2 we tried to capture that in the settlement
3 agreement, that we're not looking to do these
4 big, you know, type -- as you stated.
5 MEMBER JONES: So entertainment is
6 a non-factor in terms of your going forward
7 business success?
8 MR. SCHUSTER: It's definitely an
9 extra and add-on, I think, and it's for more
10 special occasions, like Rose said.
11 MEMBER JONES: But it's not
12 critical to your success? Is that what I'm
13 hearing?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: No, I mean it's not
15 critical.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So what I'm
17 having a little bit of a struggle with is if
18 the entertainment aspect isn't critical to
19 your success, is there a burning need for you
20 to have to have music outside in your outdoor
21 seating area?
22 MR. SCHUSTER: You mean just
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 241 1 recorded music?
2 MEMBER JONES: Yes, any type of
3 music. Is there a burning need to have
4 entertainment; i.e., music in your outdoor
5 seating area?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: I wouldn't say a
7 burning need. Do I think it would be better
8 with it? For sure. Do I think we can control
9 it? Absolutely. Like the settlement
10 agreement says, there's things in that make us
11 test it with the neighbors and a sound
12 engineer and stuff like that. So we wanted to
13 basically work from there. And if we can't do
14 it, we won't do it, but we wanted the option
15 if we could do it in a controlled manner.
16 MEMBER JONES: Fair enough. And
17 my understanding is you're the number guy,
18 correct?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: (No audible
20 response.)
21 MEMBER JONES: All right. What's
22 the cost of the soundproofing that you've
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 242 1 looked into so far, the things that you've
2 signed up to do at this point?
3 MR. SCHUSTER: We have an overall
4 budget and we've secured some different
5 financing in case the build-out goes high
6 because of this stuff.
7 MEMBER JONES: Yes.
8 MR. SCHUSTER: But reasonably, you
9 know, it probably couldn't be more than, you
10 know, 10 to 15 percent, you know, of the
11 overall cost.
12 MEMBER JONES: So you're saying
13 soundproofing is intended -- you're budgeting
14 is intended to --
15 MR. SCHUSTER: No, we're --
16 MEMBER JONES: -- be 15 percent --
17 MR. SCHUSTER: Let me -- I have --
18 MEMBER JONES: -- of the overall
19 cost?
20 MR. SCHUSTER: Let me take it at
21 -- no, no, no. I don't have a dollars and
22 cents number, or a dollar figure for you. In
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 243 1 terms of the overall budget, I mean we're
2 talking -- we're a small business. We can
3 only spend so much. Ballpark-wise I'd say at
4 least like 10,000 or something like that.
5 It's not going to be $100,000 in soundproofing
6 measures.
7 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So and
8 peace, order and quiet, one of the things that
9 you're testifying to from an establishment
10 standpoint is that you're offering to the
11 Board that you're going to put in these
12 soundproofing measures?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
14 MEMBER JONES: And that these
15 soundproofing measures should help you live up
16 to what you agreed to do, which is to ensure
17 that no sound can be heard in the residences,
18 inside of the residences of the individuals,
19 the residents in your neighborhood?
20 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
21 MEMBER JONES: Did I hear that
22 correctly?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 244 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, I think we
2 could put --
3 MEMBER JONES: Is that part of
4 what you're signing up to do?
5 MR. SCHUSTER: -- reasonable in
6 front of that, but in terms of --
7 MEMBER JONES: So, I'm sorry.
8 When you say "reasonable" --
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Reasonable
10 measures.
11 MEMBER JONES: -- what do you
12 understand to be your agreement in terms of
13 sound being heard inside of residences that
14 emanates from your establishment?
15 MR. SCHUSTER: I'll have to, you
16 know, preface that, reference the settlement
17 agreement to the exact language as to the
18 different spaces. Outside, that's definitely
19 I think stricter. Inside, I think it
20 references the D.C. Noise Code, if I'm not
21 mistaken.
22 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 245 1 MR. SCHUSTER: So, yes. And if it
2 takes more than that, I'll find -- you know,
3 we'll have to do that or we won't open. You
4 know, that's the gist of it. We have to abide
5 by what's in the settlement agreement or what
6 you guys tell us. You know, if there's an
7 exorbitant cost associated with that from an
8 engineering standpoint and there's no way that
9 we can live up to that, then we can't open.
10 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Fair enough.
11 And do you happen to have Applicant Exhibits
12 1 and 5 handy?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: I do not.
14 MEMBER JONES: Would that be able
15 to be made available?
16 MR. KLINE: Yes.
17 MEMBER JONES: So on Applicant
18 Exhibit 1, page 1, this is the area where the
19 kitchen -- so areas 7, 11, 12, 4, 10, 9, 6 and
20 8?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: Right.
22 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: That area,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 246 1 just to make sure I'm clear and I get an
2 answer from you on this one, that area is not
3 drawn to scale, correct?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: I think it might be
5 close to scale, but again, it's preliminary.
6 I would expect it to be kind of like a --
7 maybe a 7 by 11 or maybe more like 8 by 11, 8
8 by 12 type of -- based on the equipment and
9 the stuff that I've already looked at.
10 MEMBER JONES: Eight by twelve?
11 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: So the wall where
13 the 7 is, that would be 8. Twelve would be
14 the other wall?
15 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Twelve. So
17 do you happen to have any feel for what the
18 entire distance is from that existing wall
19 structure to the back of the fence that is
20 shown on Applicant Exhibit 5, page 2?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: Oh, you're saying
22 from No. 7 to like No. 6?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 247 1 MEMBER JONES: No, I'm saying from
2 No. 10 to No. 6.
3 MR. SCHUSTER: I think it's a
4 total of like 22.
5 MEMBER JONES: Sounds about right.
6 All right. So in my review of it it looks
7 like it's about 24 at the most. And you are
8 planning to put in here the kitchen space as
9 well as these four -- I call them four tops on
10 each side. So two four tops on each side?
11 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. Correct.
12 MEMBER JONES: How large are these
13 tables supposed to be?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: I don't know off
15 the top of my head.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
17 MR. SCHUSTER: The architects,
18 like I said, have looked at code prior to
19 putting this together so that it would be
20 ballpark. We do have a meeting scheduled next
21 week I believe to review it with, you know,
22 DCRA and stuff like that to see where
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 248 1 everything is at before we submit. But, yes,
2 this should be to code. So I'm not sure how
3 big they are, but they should be allowable.
4 MEMBER JONES: All right. And so
5 the use of this back area you're planning to
6 have -- as it stands right now this will be
7 where your kitchen -- excuse me, back area
8 being from wall 10 to the back of the fence.
9 You're going to have a full kitchen that is
10 boxed in here, ingress and egress at item 4,
11 and you're going to have the table tops there
12 at 9?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: Right.
14 MEMBER JONES: In area 9? Would
15 you have any envision or do you envision at
16 all -- well, let me back up. Well, you
17 indicated that there would be recorded music
18 playing in the back. Would that same recorded
19 music be piped through or come from a source
20 that's inside the establishment?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: It depends on how
22 we can mitigate it. Wherever it comes from it
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 249 1 needs to be background, so we'd probably have
2 the option to make it separate. If we end up
3 doing the same thing inside, then it might be
4 the same, but it would have to be at a lower
5 level.
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And in terms
7 of this area in the back, have you given any
8 consideration -- well, based on the
9 calculations that you've done, preliminary as
10 they may be, how important is the seating in
11 the rear to your ability to operate a
12 successful business?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: When you say
14 "seating," do you mean people back there
15 whether they're sitting or standing, just
16 having customers out there in general?
17 MEMBER JONES: Having customers
18 out there in general, yes. My understanding
19 is that you've agreed to not serve unless they
20 are seated.
21 MR. SCHUSTER: That's in the
22 front, I believe.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 250 1 MEMBER JONES: Oh, okay.
2 MR. SCHUSTER: But I don't see --
3 I mean it's going to --
4 MEMBER JONES: Maybe I
5 misunderstood.
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, it's going to
7 be kind of --
8 MEMBER JONES: So in the back area
9 you could have people roaming around and
10 having drinks and walking and talking in that
11 area?
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Based on occupancy,
13 yes. I mean I don't know how many.
14 MEMBER JONES: So you would not
15 necessarily be limited to 8 people or 16
16 people seated in the back? You have 16 seats,
17 but you're going to put as many people back
18 there as you can fit?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: I don't know what
20 the code is, but I mean obviously we want more
21 people back there if we can as long as it
22 doesn't bother people. But I don't know what
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 251 1 the code is versus standing and -- our stuff
2 is based on the numbers that we have from a
3 code standpoint. I don't know if it matters
4 whether it's seats. I know there's a certain,
5 you know, square footage that each person
6 needs for occupancy and it varies on, you
7 know, if there's tables or not tables or
8 egress and all that stuff you need to allow.
9 So I'm not sure what the totals are, but
10 honestly I don't think it would be much more
11 than what's shown by code.
12 MEMBER JONES: No, understood. I
13 guess I misunderstood earlier testimony or
14 just wasn't paying enough attention, but I got
15 the impression that the area in the back, you
16 would only have enough people there that you
17 could seat and you wouldn't have the potential
18 for having people standing as well as seating,
19 because it increases the number. It increases
20 it from 16 to whatever your permit will allow
21 you to have back there standing or seating.
22 So if you go from 16 to 30 to 40 to 50, some
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 252 1 number that could get quite loud, the more
2 people you have there, conversations, the
3 louder potentially it could be. So I just
4 didn't understand that that was the vision
5 that you had.
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Sure.
7 MEMBER JONES: So I apologize for
8 that. You mentioned that you have a place
9 called -- is it Trusty's?
10 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
11 MEMBER JONES: How close would
12 that business model be to this business model?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: It's similar size-
14 wise. It has some outdoor space. It's more
15 on the bar side, for sure.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
17 MR. SCHUSTER: But it has burgers
18 and stuff. The food isn't as refined. It's
19 very good. It's, you know, burgers and
20 sausages and things like that. So I think we
21 have the potential here of definitely doing
22 heavier food.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 253 1 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
2 MR. SCHUSTER: You know, but other
3 that I think the overall feel is done a
4 different way. It's going to be very neighbor
5 community-based. I live a block behind that
6 bar myself with my family. So it's very
7 similar actually within it, like Rose will,
8 but it's a similar type of thing. There's
9 residential all along the back alley. We
10 share an alley with all residents and we have
11 a residence person next to us and some other
12 commercial. We face Pennsylvania Avenue
13 between 14th and 15th, S.E.
14 MEMBER JONES: Okay. How long
15 have you been at this location? How long have
16 you lived at this house where the proposed
17 establishment, the proposed licensed --
18 MR. SCHUSTER: That's -- you mean
19 Rose? Rose has lived there. I don't live
20 there.
21 MEMBER JONES: Oh, oh, oh, oh.
22 Okay. I'm sorry.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 254 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. No, I live --
2 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
3 MR. SCHUSTER: -- over on Capitol
4 Hill, over at East Hill.
5 MEMBER JONES: Okay. All right.
6 I apologize. Okay. I think that's all the
7 questions I have. Thank you, Madam Chair.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr.
9 Silverstein, do you have questions?
10 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: No, I don't.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
12 Schuster, okay, I want to focus on the
13 neighbors next door.
14 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's 1348 T
16 Street, correct?
17 MR. SCHUSTER: (No audible
18 response.)
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are any of
20 the tenants here in this room tonight?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: I didn't hear the
22 first part of it.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 255 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: 1348 T
2 Street, which I believe is the focus, or
3 should be the focus of this protest hearing,
4 are any of the tenants in that building -- do
5 you know the tenants in that building?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Are we talking
7 about Caf‚ Saint Ex or --
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
9 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes. Well, I mean
10 I know the people that were on Caf‚ Saint Ex.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. It's
12 Caf‚ Saint Ex and then are there residents
13 above Caf‚ Saint Ex?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: I believe through
15 Rose, and Rose would -- I think she spoke to
16 that. I haven't had direct interaction with
17 them, but I believe either through Ron or
18 someone else there's at least maybe one.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are you aware
20 of any concerns that they raised to you about
21 any of the operations of the --
22 MR. SCHUSTER: No, I'm not. I
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 256 1 mean they're in a building with a bar that's
2 far bigger than ours will be.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The residents
4 are above an establishment that -- do they
5 have outdoor seating there?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Just in the front.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: In the front?
8 MR. SCHUSTER: In the alley that
9 we share -- or not the alley, but the fence
10 that we share on the other side there's a lot
11 of their equipment and their head box and, you
12 know, exhaust, you know? So there's noise
13 back there already.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So you didn't
15 personally talk with any of those tenants?
16 MR. SCHUSTER: I did not, no.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. But
18 your testimony is you're not aware that they
19 had any concerns?
20 MR. SCHUSTER: No, outside of the
21 landlord.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. What
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 257 1 did you say? Outside of what?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: Their landlord.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Their
4 landlord? Who is their landlord?
5 MR. SCHUSTER: Ron.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
7 Renchard, who has yet to put on his case?
8 MR. SCHUSTER: Mr. Renchard, yes.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I just
10 want to clarify a couple things. Also you
11 said you expected -- well, I don't know if you
12 were -- anticipated, expected guests, that
13 your ratio for food to alcohol, I guess, you
14 said 60/40. Is that --
15 MR. SCHUSTER: That's probably as
16 good as we'd be able to do.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: What does
18 that mean, 60/40?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: That means 60
20 percent alcohol, 40 percent food.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Revenue from
22 each?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 258 1 MR. SCHUSTER: In terms of
2 revenue, yes.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
4 MR. SCHUSTER: And the alcohol
5 portion I think would be much heavier beer and
6 wine and less liquor, because we'll have some
7 cocktails, but our emphasis is --
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
9 MR. SCHUSTER: -- beer, craft beer
10 and wine.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And I'm not
12 sure whether I heard this from Ms. Previte
13 earlier or not, but I want to clarify. You
14 were talking to Mr. Jones about people could
15 be in the back summer garden, not just those
16 who are seated. And I think I heard a number
17 of -- 15-20 people would be in the rear?
18 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, I was doing my
19 calculations based on having 15 to 20 people
20 back there, whatever is --
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Now does that
22 mean seated, or does that mean both?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 259 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Whatever is
2 allowed. Again, I don't have the exact code
3 yet, but I'm guessing -- via the space --
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, okay.
5 MR. SCHUSTER: -- that I have in
6 other places, I'm guessing that's what it's
7 going to end up at.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You're
9 guessing that that's what public --
10 MR. SCHUSTER: It's not public --
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: It's a summer
12 garden. It's not public space.
13 MR. SCHUSTER: And honestly, I
14 don't have anything that is classified as a
15 summer garden at any of my other
16 establishments, so I'm not --
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
18 MR. SCHUSTER: -- as sure on how
19 the numbers work there.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So you're
21 just making an estimate based on your
22 experience as to how many people --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 260 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Based on having
2 other space, whether it's seated or standing,
3 in other establishments and how many people
4 you're allowed to have.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Well, do you
6 have an idea of how many tables you would have
7 back there?
8 MR. SCHUSTER: I don't think it
9 will be any more than what's shown, you know?
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that four,
11 you mean?
12 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, four.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So --
14 MR. SCHUSTER: I don't think there
15 would be room.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Are those
17 tables for four?
18 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
20 that's about 16.
21 MR. SCHUSTER: But I think right
22 now they're showing 16.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 261 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
2 MR. SCHUSTER: That's what's on
3 the diagram, but again -- and that should be
4 -- that's definitely based on code right now.
5 What I don't know is are there standing
6 allowed around that? I'm not sure on that.
7 If there are, I can't imagine it's much
8 because when you place the tables you need to
9 have like three feet for egress and you need
10 a certain amount of space for -- well, you
11 need a clear path of three feet, you know,
12 wherever you're going.
13 So there needs to be a clear three
14 feet. That's why I'm showing -- there's
15 nothing in the middle probably because we need
16 to, you know, go through to the nearest exit
17 or back inside. And there can only be so many
18 chairs versus how big the table is and
19 everything else. And I don't know the numbers
20 off the top of my head.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
22 even though you're going for a tavern license,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 262 1 it sounds like your vision is that this is
2 really going to operate more like a
3 restaurant. Is that correct?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: I think based on
5 the facility, you know, I think appearance-
6 wise and feel-wise, yes. But sales-wise,
7 because of the hours and because of our price
8 points, we're still going to have more alcohol
9 sales.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So you're not
11 going to have a bar outside, are you?
12 MR. SCHUSTER: (No audible
13 response.)
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So I mean is
15 there any reason to be concerned that maybe
16 there will be all these people mulling around
17 with their drinks on the back patio that don't
18 have seats at a table?
19 MR. SCHUSTER: It's something
20 we're going to have to be aware of, for sure.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I'm sorry,
22 what did you say?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 263 1 MR. SCHUSTER: It's something
2 we're going to have to be aware of, for sure.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is that
4 something you would control if that was a
5 problem with the neighbors?
6 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
8 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, whether it's
9 people in house -- on busier nights we'll
10 definitely have at least one security person,
11 you know, for IDs, crowd control and making
12 sure capacity issues -- and if we need another
13 one for the back, we'll definitely do that.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And I
15 also want to be clear about -- you made a
16 reference to $10,000 for soundproofing. Is
17 that how much you are investing definitely in
18 order to do your plans as they're being drawn,
19 or is that something that's being held in, you
20 know, reserve in case you need it, or what?
21 MR. SCHUSTER: It's more of an
22 overall feel for how much we're spending
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 264 1 overall. But again, there's going to be
2 decisions that we don't have enough
3 information on yet down the road as we get
4 these things finalized and we do some sound
5 checks and things like that.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
7 MR. SCHUSTER: When we know that
8 we can, we'll invest the money to do those.
9 But if that needs to change buckets, it
10 absolutely will and we'll do what we need to
11 do. Otherwise, we're not going to do the
12 project.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So and I'm
14 just kind of wondering, is that in order to
15 further your initial plans, like not in
16 response to complaints down the road? Is that
17 like just now and you're going to be putting
18 up panels or whatever else you're doing, that
19 you have this money that you're going to maybe
20 not spend all of it, but you have it --
21 MR. SCHUSTER: I think we'll try
22 to do it right from day one --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 265 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
2 MR. SCHUSTER: -- to the best of
3 your ability. Otherwise, like I said, I mean
4 it's not our -- we want to be a community
5 place and my other places are, you know, and
6 we have good relations with the neighbors and
7 things. And when we don't-- and there have
8 been a couple and we've addressed them very
9 quickly, because it's just -- it's too hard.
10 You know, you don't want to have this
11 adversarial thing when you're working as hard
12 as you need to work to make these places
13 successful.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did you also
15 say; I just want to make sure I understood you
16 correctly, that the music, that you were
17 intending to have some recorded music, was in
18 response to neighbors' or community actually
19 preferences or desires?
20 MR. SCHUSTER: Some people
21 actually -- when Rose was meeting with them;
22 and again this was through Rose, actually want
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 266 1 live stuff out there. But we recognize that
2 there are residents there and that wasn't
3 going to work. And that's one of the first
4 things we said, no, we don't need that. It's
5 not vital. The recorded music is basically
6 just supposed to be background music, you
7 know, for the just comfort of customers. And
8 some people absolutely would prefer that. If
9 we can't pull it off in a manner that isn't
10 consistent with D.C. Code or what we've agreed
11 to, then we won't do it.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
13 you.
14 Okay. Are there any questions
15 based on Board questions? Mr. Kline?
16 MR. KLINE: Yes, a couple. Mr.
17 Schuster, Mr. Silverstein was asking you about
18 how you would address concerns related to
19 adjacent residents.
20 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
21 MR. KLINE: What's your
22 understanding of the adjacent residence that
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 267 1 we're talking about?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: They all already
3 said they'd work with Rose. They want us
4 there and they know we'll work with them to
5 make sure it's right. Again, in the
6 settlement agreement we have sound checks that
7 we have to -- you know, those people and the
8 people that are on the block -- say, hey,
9 look, this is what it's at. Is this level
10 good? Go to your house. Call me. How about
11 now? I did the same thing at Trusty's. And
12 any time it deviates; and it has once or twice
13 in five years, we get a complaint one night,
14 it's fixed, you know, and it's done.
15 MR. KLINE: Now so you're talking
16 about 1846, correct?
17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
18 MR. KLINE: So that's to the left
19 of Compass Rose?
20 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
21 MR. KLINE: And then to the right
22 of Compass Rose is Mr. Renchard's building,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 268 1 correct?
2 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
3 MR. KLINE: But to your knowledge
4 does he live in that building?
5 MR. SCHUSTER: No, not at all.
6 No.
7 MR. KLINE: Okay. And to your
8 knowledge the bulk of the building is made up
9 of commercial businesses?
10 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, Caf‚ Saint Ex
11 has to take a big chunk of it. I mean their
12 facility is much larger than hours.
13 MR. KLINE: And there are other
14 commercial businesses in there?
15 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, that's my
16 understanding.
17 MR. KLINE: All right.
18 MR. SCHUSTER: I don't know which
19 ones.
20 MR. KLINE: And to your knowledge
21 are there any residents there?
22 MR. SCHUSTER: I heard there might
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 269 1 be one, but I have not gotten confirmation on
2 that.
3 MR. KLINE: All right. Now in
4 response to questions from Board Member Jones,
5 you were talking about -- he asked you about
6 how critical entertainment is.
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
8 MR. KLINE: Now when you were
9 talking about entertainment initially was it
10 your understanding that we were talking about
11 entertainment that's required by an
12 entertainment endorsement; in other words,
13 live entertainment and DJ?
14 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, live
15 entertainment and DJ.
16 MR. KLINE: All right.
17 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
18 MR. KLINE: Do you feel
19 differently with respect to the non-
20 entertainment; in other words, recorded music
21 as a component being an important component of
22 your business?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 270 1 MR. SCHUSTER: Oh, vital. Vital.
2 MR. KLINE: That's vital?
3 MR. SCHUSTER: Right. Yes.
4 MR. KLINE: Okay. So in terms of
5 having recorded music in your business, inside
6 that's important?
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Absolutely.
8 MR. KLINE: And in terms of in the
9 back summer garden area?
10 MR. SCHUSTER: I think less
11 important, but preferable for sure. You know,
12 and I think, like I said, we have stuff in the
13 settlement agreement already to make changes
14 if we have to.
15 MR. KLINE: All right.
16 MR. SCHUSTER: If it came to that.
17 MR. KLINE: And without belaboring
18 it, because it is late, in showing you the
19 settlement agreement which is in the Board's
20 files --
21 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes.
22 MR. KLINE: -- the provisions
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 271 1 concerning noise relate to amplifying recorded
2 music and instruments similar to what's in the
3 ABC Code, correct?
4 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
5 MR. KLINE: All right. So you've
6 talked about these soundproofing measures --
7 MR. SCHUSTER: Correct.
8 MR. KLINE: -- that you're going
9 to undertake, but if push comes to shove and
10 people hear it in their residences, then
11 you'll simply discontinue the recorded music,
12 correct?
13 MR. SCHUSTER: Yes, we'll have to
14 because we're in violation of code.
15 MR. KLINE: Got it. And in
16 violation of your voluntary agreement?
17 MR. SCHUSTER: And our settlement
18 agreement.
19 MR. KLINE: Right. Settlement
20 agreement. Thank you.
21 That's all I have. Thank you.
22 Unless there are other questions, I would
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 272 1 excuse Mr. Schuster.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You're
3 excused.
4 MR. SCHUSTER: Thank you.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Thank you
6 very much.
7 MR. KLINE: Madam Chair, the only
8 other thing I have is the Board should have in
9 its files a letter from ANC Commissioner Carol
10 Green dated April 30th, 2013. It was sent
11 directly to the Board. I have a copy of it,
12 however, the original with the signature on it
13 was sent to the Board. I can tender a copy of
14 the copy that we were provided and I would ask
15 that the Board take administrative notice that
16 it's in their files and make it part of the
17 record.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: It's in our
19 flies? Is that what you said?
20 MR. KLINE: Yes.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The original?
22 MR. KLINE: And Ms. Green advises
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 273 1 that she sent the signed copy directly to the
2 Board and provided us a courtesy copy via
3 email.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Are
5 there two other pages attached to Exhibit 4?
6 MR. KLINE: There are, and I would
7 move those as well at this point.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Is it the
9 same situation for these two, that they've
10 already been sent to us, or you don't know?
11 MR. KLINE: It's my belief that
12 they have, yes. They were both addressed to
13 the Alcoholic Beverage Control Board.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
15 MR. KLINE: All right. Mr.
16 Schuster advises he's doesn't know whether
17 those were sent directly to you.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: The other
19 two?
20 MR. KLINE: The other two.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: They're
22 addressed to us.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 274 1 MR. KLINE: They are addressed to
2 you.
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Do you have
4 an objection?
5 MR. RENCHARD: Not at all.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So are
7 you asking me to --
8 MR. KLINE: Move Applicant's
9 Exhibit --
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- admit this
11 as Exhibit 4?
12 MR. KLINE: Yes.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
14 There's no objection and --
15 MR. KLINE: With that, we rest.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: What?
17 MR. KLINE: And with that, we
18 rest.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Good.
20 All right. That complete's Applicant's case.
21 Why don't we take a five-minute
22 break and then we'll hear from Mr. Renchard.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 275 1 Okay. Thank you.
2 (Whereupon, at 9:06 p.m. off the
3 record until 9:16 p.m.)
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Call your
5 first witness. Are you it?
6 MR. RENCHARD: I thought you were
7 going to call me.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Good.
9 MR. RENCHARD: I have to be sworn
10 in, don't I?
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes, you do.
12 Okay. Do you swear to tell the truth, the
13 whole truth, nothing but the truth?
14 MR. RENCHARD: I do.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So you
16 can testify from wherever you're comfortable.
17 Okay. Go right ahead.
18 MR. RENCHARD: Oh, I thought you
19 were going to ask me questions.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You don't
21 have any testimony?
22 MR. RENCHARD: The only testimony
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 276 1 I have is a request to have hours modified.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay.
3 MR. RENCHARD: That's number one.
4 And number two is to have the music turned
5 off. And No. 3 have the bottles turned off
6 before 9:00.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Hours
8 modified. Music what, turned --
9 MR. RENCHARD: Bottles. Just
10 bottles discharged before 9:00.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Hours
12 modified. Hours for what?
13 MR. RENCHARD: For both the front
14 and back, but principally the summer garden to
15 be closed at 10:00 and no music in the back.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. This
17 isn't the normal way, but I --
18 MR. RENCHARD: I know, but --
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I
20 understand. So I just want to clarify what
21 you're testifying to, and it's probably in
22 your PIF as well, but the hours of the outside
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 277 1 modified for both summer garden and front, or
2 just summer garden?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Summer garden is
4 10:00.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes.
6 MR. RENCHARD: And the front
7 operations, we want them closed at 10:30,
8 11:00. 11:00.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Eleven?
10 Okay. That's hours. Bottles you want --
11 MR. RENCHARD: Before 9:00.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Before 9:00.
13 MR. RENCHARD: P.M.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right.
15 MR. RENCHARD: And no music in the
16 summer garden.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. If
18 that's your testimony, then --
19 MR. RENCHARD: That's it.
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- we will
21 open you -- okay. Then you'd be open for
22 questions next.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 278 1 MR. RENCHARD: Fine.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So Mr.
3 Kline has the first --
4 MR. RENCHARD: He had plenty of
5 questions, I know that.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Go ahead.
7 MR. KLINE: Mr. Renchard, you own
8 the building immediately to the west of the
9 Compass Rose proposed location?
10 MR. RENCHARD: That's correct, Mr.
11 Kline.
12 MR. KLINE: And that building is
13 principally occupied by a business known as
14 Caf‚ Saint Ex?
15 MR. RENCHARD: That's right, Mr.
16 Kline.
17 MR. KLINE: And that business is
18 the holder of a CT license, right?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Correct, Mr. Kline.
20 MR. KLINE: And you don't live in
21 that building, do you?
22 MR. RENCHARD: No, sir.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 279 1 MR. KLINE: In fact you spend the
2 majority of your time in North Carolina, don't
3 you?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Correction.
5 Majority? What do you mean by that?
6 MR. KLINE: More time than not.
7 MR. RENCHARD: Disagree.
8 MR. KLINE: All right. Well,
9 let's back up. Isn't it a fact that you have
10 a business or a job down there?
11 MR. RENCHARD: I have a business
12 down there.
13 MR. KLINE: All right. And you're
14 down there what, typically Monday through
15 Thursday every week?
16 MR. RENCHARD: That's correct.
17 MR. KLINE: And you maintain a
18 residence down there?
19 MR. RENCHARD: No, I do not.
20 MR. KLINE: Do you have a place
21 that you stay down there?
22 MR. RENCHARD: I do.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 280 1 MR. KLINE: Okay. And your living
2 quarters in the District of Columbia are not
3 adjacent to this property, correct?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Adjacent being?
5 MR. KLINE: Right next door.
6 MR. RENCHARD: No, not next door.
7 MR. KLINE: So you are here as the
8 owner of an adjacent property that's
9 principally commercial, correct?
10 MR. RENCHARD: And I'm also the
11 owner of 1340 T Street.
12 MR. KLINE: Which is four houses
13 down?
14 MR. RENCHARD: That's correct.
15 MR. KLINE: But you're not here in
16 that capacity, are you?
17 MR. RENCHARD: I am here in that
18 capacity. I'm here as abutting property
19 owner.
20 MR. KLINE: And the abutting
21 property that we're talking about is the
22 commercial property that houses Saint Ex,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 281 1 correct?
2 MR. RENCHARD: We're talking about
3 1348 T Street.
4 MR. KLINE: Right. And Saint Ex
5 being a tavern licensee finds Compass Rose as
6 a potential competitor, doesn't it?
7 MR. RENCHARD: I have no idea.
8 That's -- I have no idea. You're assuming
9 that. I have no idea.
10 MR. KLINE: Well they basically
11 would be in the same business, correct?
12 MR. RENCHARD: It doesn't make any
13 difference to me. I have no idea what their
14 feelings are. They have never expressed it to
15 me.
16 MR. KLINE: You lease several
17 premises within that building to different
18 businesses, correct?
19 MR. RENCHARD: That's correct.
20 MR. KLINE: And one of them is
21 Saint Ex?
22 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 282 1 MR. KLINE: And you're dependent
2 upon the rental payments from Saint Ex to meet
3 whatever obligations you have, correct?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
5 MR. KLINE: And another competitor
6 right next door could have an effect on the
7 business of Saint Ex, right?
8 MR. RENCHARD: No, I don't see
9 that at all.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. That's the
11 most narrow approach I've ever heard. You're
12 assuming that one business is going to take
13 all the business from somebody else. It's
14 like looking at Bar Pilar and saying it's
15 going to take all the business from Saint Ex
16 or Masa 14 is going to take all the business
17 from Bar Pilar. That's what you're saying.
18 MR. KLINE: All right.
19 MR. RENCHARD: That's what you're
20 saying. Is that correct?
21 MR. KLINE: I get to ask the
22 questions.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 283 1 (Laughter.)
2 MR. RENCHARD: Well, I don't give
3 a damn.
4 MR. KLINE: So your interest here
5 today as an adjacent property owner really
6 doesn't have anything to do with your peace,
7 order and quiet at the building that you own
8 where Saint Ex is located, correct?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, it does.
10 MR. KLINE: How so?
11 MR. RENCHARD: I have a tenant up
12 there who already expressed the fact that he
13 does not like to have noise outside his
14 window, and his window is one that overlooks
15 the public space in front of the building, of
16 1346.
17 MR. KLINE: The public space in
18 front of the building?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
20 MR. KLINE: I don't have any other
21 questions of the witness at this time. Thank
22 you.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 284 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Board
2 Members?
3 MEMBER JONES: I guess I'm up.
4 Sir, you're here because you have standing by
5 virtue of the fact that you're the abutting
6 property owner?
7 MR. RENCHARD: Right.
8 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Can you
9 articulate what your concerns are as the
10 abutting property owner, keeping in mind that
11 you've already established the fact that you
12 don't actually live there? So can you
13 truthfully articulate what your concerns are
14 related to that?
15 MR. RENCHARD: Yes. I have a
16 tenant who complains about the peace, order
17 and quiet, number one. Number two, I live
18 three properties from this 1346. Not
19 abutting. Live in three houses down from
20 1346.
21 MEMBER JONES: Okay. But as the
22 abutting property owner your concern is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 285 1 related to the tenant, the residential tenant?
2 MR. RENCHARD: Residential tenant.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
4 MR. RENCHARD: Not commercial.
5 MEMBER JONES: That residential
6 tenant, you said he's spoken to you or
7 communicated to you --
8 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
9 MEMBER JONES: -- his or her
10 concerns related to --
11 MR. RENCHARD: His concerns.
12 MEMBER JONES: -- peace, order and
13 quiet?
14 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, sir.
15 MEMBER JONES: Is this existing
16 peace, order and quiet, or the anticipated
17 peace, order and quiet related to the
18 operation of this establishment?
19 MR. RENCHARD: The past peace,
20 order and quiet and this future -- current
21 peace, order and quiet when he understood
22 there's going to be a tavern using an outside
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 286 1 summer garden.
2 MEMBER JONES: Has he complained
3 to you about Saint Ex?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
5 MEMBER JONES: He has?
6 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
7 MEMBER JONES: Is Saint Ex also
8 one of your tenants?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
10 MEMBER JONES: What have you done
11 to mitigate the issues related to that tenant?
12 MR. RENCHARD: Bring them both
13 together, sir.
14 MEMBER JONES: Say that again?
15 MR. RENCHARD: Bring them
16 together. Have them talk.
17 MEMBER JONES: Bring them
18 together?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
20 MEMBER JONES: Why wouldn't that
21 solution render itself as an option in this
22 instance?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 287 1 MR. RENCHARD: They're not in
2 business yet, sir.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So if that's
4 your rationale, what is the concern with this
5 business given that it's not in business? Do
6 you feel like you can't come together because
7 they don't exist yet?
8 MR. RENCHARD: I've approached
9 them already on the question of noise, that
10 they reduce their hours, that they prevent
11 music in the back, as well as bottles.
12 MEMBER JONES: What are the hours
13 for Saint Ex?
14 MR. RENCHARD: They're front hour
15 is 11:00.
16 MEMBER JONES: So I'm curious,
17 what would be the motivation? Why would it be
18 a requirement for them to be less -- or fewer
19 or earlier hours for this next door
20 establishment than for the establishment that
21 is directly underneath the resident that
22 you're saying is complaining?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 288 1 MR. RENCHARD: The major concern
2 is the music.
3 MEMBER JONES: Say that again?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Music. The
5 music --
6 MEMBER JONES: Music?
7 MR. RENCHARD: -- is the major
8 concern, yes.
9 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So it's
10 focused on music?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Music, yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: That's where your
13 tenant's --
14 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
15 MEMBER JONES: -- primary focus
16 is, on the music? Is that fair?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Correct.
18 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So now we've
19 kind of narrowed our focus a little bit even
20 more. So now we've gotten down to, okay, the
21 tenant is really more concerned about the
22 potential for music coming from this yet-to-
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 289 1 be-operating but potentially or proposed
2 establishment?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Correct.
4 MEMBER JONES: And that's why
5 you're here?
6 MR. RENCHARD: Correct.
7 MEMBER JONES: All right. So just
8 out of curiosity, is there a reason why the --
9 did you attempt to have your tenant serve as
10 a witness here today?
11 MR. RENCHARD: No, I did not.
12 MEMBER JONES: You did not? Is
13 there a reason why not?
14 MR. RENCHARD: He's out of town,
15 sir. He attended a funeral.
16 MEMBER JONES: So I'm just trying
17 to follow here. So did you put him down on
18 the form --
19 MR. RENCHARD: No, I did not.
20 MEMBER JONES: -- as a potential
21 witness?
22 MR. RENCHARD: No, I did not.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 290 1 MEMBER JONES: Would you have
2 wanted him to be a witness if he was in town?
3 MR. RENCHARD: I would indeed.
4 MEMBER JONES: You would have?
5 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
6 MEMBER JONES: Okay. Did you
7 communicate the fact that you wanted this
8 individual to be a witness to ABRA and
9 indicate that this individual was out of town
10 and couldn't make the date?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: You did?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
14 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So how did
15 you communicate that?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Verbally, sir.
17 MEMBER JONES: To whom?
18 MR. RENCHARD: To the tenant and
19 he was -- the tenant who resides in 1348 T
20 Street.
21 MEMBER JONES: I'm sorry, did you
22 communicate to ABRA --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 291 1 MR. RENCHARD: No. No.
2 MEMBER JONES: -- he was -- okay.
3 MR. RENCHARD: No. No.
4 MEMBER JONES: Did the tenant
5 express a desire to come and testify or speak
6 on behalf of your position?
7 MR. RENCHARD: I do not recall his
8 response, but I think he's told me he was busy
9 that period of time, whatever it was, and I
10 didn't pursue it further than that.
11 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So he wasn't
12 concerned about it enough to make himself
13 available for today's proceedings?
14 MR. RENCHARD: No, because he knew
15 I would be concerned for his own behalf.
16 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So he
17 counted on you effectively representing his or
18 her concerns?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
20 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And just to
21 put this to rest, is there any -- and I ask
22 that you not get agitated with me like you did
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 292 1 with Mr. Kline if at all possible, but is
2 there any truth to the statement or the
3 position that you're concerned about there
4 being a competing establishment right next
5 door to one of your tenants that has a similar
6 operation?
7 MR. RENCHARD: No, sir.
8 MEMBER JONES: No? Okay. Just
9 want to make sure that's clear on the record.
10 MR. RENCHARD: No. So --
11 MEMBER JONES: Oh, you'd like to
12 add --
13 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, I had
14 something more. Prior to this establishment,
15 Compass Rose, there was an establishment
16 called Caf‚ Saint Ex -- or pardon me, Caf‚
17 Collage. Correction. Caf‚ Collage. They
18 also served alcohol. I had no objection and
19 to my knowledge the maŒtre d' at Saint Ex had
20 no objection either.
21 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
22 MR. RENCHARD: Okay?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 293 1 MEMBER JONES: All right. And so
2 you're also saying you've had no conversations
3 with your client Saint Ex regarding the
4 operation of this proposed establishment next
5 door to it?
6 MR. RENCHARD: Correct.
7 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So really
8 the only matter we're here as far as why
9 you're here is to represent one of your
10 clients; i.e., the residential tenant --
11 MR. RENCHARD: Correct.
12 MEMBER JONES: -- and that
13 individual's concerns. And his concerns are
14 narrowly focused on the potential for music
15 emanating from this establishment?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Noise and music.
17 MEMBER JONES: Noise and music?
18 MR. RENCHARD: Music. Okay. Yes.
19 MEMBER JONES: Noise and music?
20 MR. RENCHARD: Noise and music.
21 MEMBER JONES: Okay.
22 MR. RENCHARD: Noise being people
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 294 1 probably outside and music being noise itself.
2 MEMBER JONES: Okay. And the
3 delta or the difference that you -- well the
4 rationale for the difference in the hours
5 between Saint Ex and this establishment I
6 thought was based on the potential for music
7 being out of one establishment versus the
8 other. Was that the rationale you provided
9 for the delta in hours?
10 MR. RENCHARD: The 10:00 hours is
11 in the rear for the summer garden.
12 MEMBER JONES: Yes.
13 MR. RENCHARD: That was the
14 rationale. Turn off at 10:00 and no music in
15 the back.
16 MEMBER JONES: So turn off the
17 music at 10:00?
18 MR. RENCHARD: Music at 10:00.
19 MEMBER JONES: In the back?
20 MR. RENCHARD: Well, close the
21 establishment at 10:00.
22 MEMBER JONES: So what I'm
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 295 1 struggling with his I thought you indicated
2 Saint Ex' hours --
3 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
4 MEMBER JONES: -- were later than
5 the hours that you're asking for from this
6 establishment. Is that true?
7 MR. RENCHARD: Saint Ex already
8 has their established hours in the voluntary
9 agreement.
10 MEMBER JONES: Do you know what
11 those are? I guess more importantly are the
12 hours that you're saying you want this
13 establishment to close at -- are they the
14 exact same hours as you have for Saint Ex, or
15 that are in place for Saint Ex?
16 MR. RENCHARD: No.
17 MEMBER JONES: No?
18 MR. RENCHARD: No.
19 MEMBER JONES: Are they earlier or
20 later?
21 MR. RENCHARD: They're later.
22 MEMBER JONES: So the hours for
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 296 1 this establishment, that you're asking for
2 this establishment to have, you're saying
3 they're later than what Saint Ex has?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Currently their
5 hours are later than Saint Ex' hours.
6 MEMBER JONES: No, currently they
7 are. What you're asking of them --
8 MR. RENCHARD: I'm asking --
9 MEMBER JONES: -- what would you
10 make you happy, right, would seem to be hours
11 that are less than or earlier than Saint Ex'
12 hours. And maybe I'm confused. And I see
13 somebody in the back shaking their head, so
14 obviously I'm confused. So help me --
15 PARTICIPANT: Saint Ex --
16 MEMBER JONES: I don't want to
17 hear from you.
18 MR. RENCHARD: Earlier in the
19 back, the summer garden. Saint Ex has no
20 summer garden. I want them closed at 10:00
21 p.m. That was the request I had.
22 MEMBER JONES: So when you say
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 297 1 "them closed" --
2 MR. RENCHARD: Them closed.
3 Closed.
4 MEMBER JONES: -- you're talking
5 Compass Rose? You would like for them to be
6 closed, their entire establishment or just the
7 back closed at 10:00?
8 MR. RENCHARD: The back.
9 MEMBER JONES: So just the outside
10 area?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Back. That's all
12 I'm arguing. The back.
13 MEMBER JONES: That's it? So you
14 want them closed at 10:00 in the back?
15 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
16 MEMBER JONES: And that's it?
17 MR. RENCHARD: That's it.
18 MEMBER JONES: All right. What
19 about the music? Do you care what time the
20 music goes until?
21 MR. RENCHARD: Same time, 10:00.
22 MEMBER JONES: Inside and out?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 298 1 MR. RENCHARD: No, outside, the
2 back.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So we're
4 done with the back. Outside closed at 10:00.
5 All right. Which Saint Ex doesn't have an
6 outside area, so we're looking at apples and
7 oranges here. All right? So forget that
8 part. Now I'm just talking about the inside.
9 MR. RENCHARD: No problem with the
10 inside.
11 MEMBER JONES: No problem with the
12 inside? So they can have whatever hours they
13 want for the inside? You don't care?
14 MR. RENCHARD: Don't care.
15 MEMBER JONES: All right. Music.
16 You don't care about the inside?
17 MR. RENCHARD: I don't care.
18 MEMBER JONES: Okay. So we're
19 even more narrowly focused now. The only
20 things you really care about is the outside --
21 MR. RENCHARD: Outside.
22 MEMBER JONES: -- operations with
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 299 1 patrons, and noise -- music?
2 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
3 MEMBER JONES: Okay. What would
4 make you happy, just to make sure I'm clear,
5 for the outside portion? Closed at 10:00? No
6 music? No patrons?
7 MR. RENCHARD: Right. In the
8 summer garden.
9 MEMBER JONES: In the summer
10 garden?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
12 MEMBER JONES: And that's it?
13 MR. RENCHARD: That's it.
14 MEMBER JONES: Done. Thank you.
15 Thank you, Madam Chair.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Mr.
17 Silverstein?
18 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: (No audible
19 response.)
20 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Let me
21 see if I can just narrow it a little bit more,
22 just get a little more information.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 300 1 All right. Certainly on the
2 bottles, you want the bottles to be discharged
3 before 9:00. And I thought that I heard Ms.
4 Previte agree to that on the dais, but I'm
5 sure that can be clarified at the end. Okay.
6 So that may not be an issue anymore. So
7 there's not an issue with bottles.
8 Okay. So there is an issue with
9 respect to summer garden hours. During the
10 week you want it closed at 10:00?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And weekends
13 what time?
14 MR. RENCHARD: Ten.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Ten on
16 weekends?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Now
19 you don't live there, but you are the owner of
20 the building, correct? Are you the owner --
21 MR. RENCHARD: I don't live in the
22 abutting property.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 301 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- of the
2 abutting property?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Right. Do not live
4 in the abutting property.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You're
6 the owner?
7 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You're the
9 landlord?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
12 So Saint Ex is one tenant?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Who are the
15 other tenants?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Novelty Foods
17 Management and an individual renting the top
18 floor.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: One
20 individual?
21 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: On the top
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 302 1 floor? Who has complained about noise from
2 Saint Ex?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Who has complained
4 about noise, yes.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
6 that individual's on a year-to-year lease, or
7 what?
8 MR. RENCHARD: He's on a year-to-
9 year lease, correct.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
11 what's the name of that individual?
12 MR. RENCHARD: Dallas Preston.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And has Mr.
14 Preston put anything in the record in this
15 case?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Not to use, ma'am.
17 No, ma'am.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
19 are you representing Mr. Preston, or are you
20 representing your interest as an owner of the
21 building --
22 MR. RENCHARD: Representing --
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 303 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- for any
2 tenant in general, or what?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Owner of the
4 building.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
6 it's your idea that the summer garden should
7 end at 10:00?
8 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And what is
10 the basis for 10:00?
11 MR. RENCHARD: The basis is also I
12 reside in a building three doors from --
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, but
14 you're here only -- your standing is as an
15 abutting property owner.
16 MR. RENCHARD: Noise is the
17 principal reason.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Noise. Why
19 from the back versus the front?
20 MR. RENCHARD: Because you can
21 hear it inside on the top floor. There are
22 windows on the top floor that face the summer
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 304 1 garden.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: How do you
3 know?
4 MR. RENCHARD: I know. I own the
5 building.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: No, I mean
7 how do you know you can hear it? What do you
8 mean "it?" You can hear voices? You can
9 hear --
10 MR. RENCHARD: There was prior to
11 that an establishment called Caf‚ Collage.
12 They used the outside area. And that's what
13 I'm going on so far as noise. It would heard
14 inside 1348.
15 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
16 they served --
17 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- in the
19 back?
20 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
22 the same tenant complained about that noise?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 305 1 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, ma'am.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And was that
3 resolved in any way?
4 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, they stopped
5 making noise.
6 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: They stopped?
7 MR. RENCHARD: We approached them.
8 I approached them and said, hey, you know --
9 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Did they stop
10 serving in the back?
11 MR. RENCHARD: I don't know if
12 they stopped serving, but they realized their
13 noise could be heard.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So how did
15 they --
16 MR. RENCHARD: I don't know if
17 they stopped serving. I wasn't there to see
18 if they stopped serving.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: How did they
20 stop making noise?
21 MR. RENCHARD: Well, they -- how
22 did they stop making noise?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 306 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Yes, if they
2 were --
3 MR. RENCHARD: They went inside
4 the building.
5 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: What?
6 MR. RENCHARD: They went inside.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Oh, they
8 stopped serving outside?
9 MR. RENCHARD: They didn't serve.
10 They just sat around outside and smoked and
11 drank beer.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So is
13 the window of the top floor looking out
14 onto --
15 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: -- that back?
17 Okay. And how did you pick the 11:00 hour for
18 the front?
19 MR. RENCHARD: That's what it
20 should be. I mean Saint Ex has the same hours
21 now.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So it's based
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 307 1 on Saint Ex' hours?
2 MR. RENCHARD: (No audible
3 response.)
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And how about
5 on weekends? What did you say?
6 MR. RENCHARD: They have 11:00.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Who, Saint
8 Ex?
9 MR. RENCHARD: Saint Ex.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: So is your
11 point that it should just be the same as Saint
12 Ex?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. And
15 finally music. Do you object to their having
16 music if your tenant can't hear it?
17 MR. RENCHARD: I don't know would
18 you object? Well, I -- music comes in
19 different forms. I can say that. I don't
20 know if you're saying -- if they have no
21 music, I'm guaranteed not to have any noise.
22 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: I am under
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 308 1 the impression that there was testimony about
2 regulating the music so that it didn't disturb
3 the neighbors and that there may be something
4 in the settlement agreement to that effect.
5 MR. RENCHARD: I haven't seen the
6 settlement agreement.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You haven't
8 seen the settlement agreement?
9 MR. RENCHARD: No.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That was
11 going to be my next question. Okay. So I
12 mean in a way it's like, you know, if a tree
13 falls and no one hears it, is it a problem?
14 But basically if they are committing -- I'm
15 not sure, but if they were committing to
16 regulating the music provided it didn't
17 disturb the neighbors, would you object to
18 that?
19 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, I would object
20 to that.
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You would
22 object to that? On what basis?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 309 1 MR. RENCHARD: Disturbance.
2 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: But if
3 wouldn't disturb the neighbors? Are you
4 assuming it will necessarily?
5 MR. RENCHARD: I assume it's going
6 to disturb the neighbors, yes.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So I
8 just want to clarify your testimony about the
9 hours and the music. It's your testimony as
10 the landlord or is it and/or specifically
11 communicated to you by your one residential
12 tenant on the top floor?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Landlord.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Both?
15 MR. RENCHARD: Landlord.
16 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Landlord?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Landlord with a
18 tenant in mind, yes.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Right, but
20 I'm saying with any tenant in mind as opposed
21 to Mr. Preston who couldn't be here tonight.
22 MR. RENCHARD: No, no.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 310 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Any tenant?
2 MR. RENCHARD: Just Mr. Preston,
3 yes.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: These are Mr.
5 Preston's concerns?
6 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
7 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: If Mr.
8 Preston said he didn't care, would you be
9 here?
10 MR. RENCHARD: Probably would be,
11 yes.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. That's
13 all I have. Any other questions on Board
14 questions?
15 MR. KLINE: Yes. Mr. Renchard,
16 isn't it a fact back that Mr. Preston's
17 apartment overlooks T Street?
18 MR. RENCHARD: It's correct, yes.
19 MR. KLINE: All right. So but you
20 have less concerns about the caf‚ seating in
21 the front than you do about the summer garden?
22 MR. RENCHARD: Less or more.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 311 1 Regardless, I'm talking to you simply about
2 the summer garden, which affects -- you can
3 hear it upstairs on the third floor in the
4 rear of Mr. Preston's apartment.
5 MR. KLINE: Isn't it fact that
6 Matchbox' hours are until midnight?
7 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, but --
8 MR. KLINE: You answered the
9 question. Thank you. And it's your
10 contention even if the music can't be heard in
11 your tenant's residence that's still an issue
12 for you?
13 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
14 MR. KLINE: Now isn't it a fact
15 that you at one point attempted to purchase
16 this building, 1346 T Street?
17 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
18 MR. KLINE: And those efforts were
19 rebuffed? In other words, you didn't make a
20 deal with the owner of the property, correct?
21 He wouldn't sell it to you?
22 MR. RENCHARD: Right. I mean,
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 312 1 sure.
2 MR. KLINE: Does that have
3 anything to do with why we're here tonight?
4 MR. RENCHARD: No.
5 MR. KLINE: When did you file your
6 PIF, your Protest Information Form? Didn't
7 you file it several weeks ago?
8 MR. RENCHARD: I believe it was
9 filed on the 19th of April.
10 MR. KLINE: All right. And did
11 you know at that time that Mr. Preston was
12 going to be out of town at a funeral for
13 today's hearing?
14 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, he was out of
15 town and that's when I approached him, but he
16 travels and does furniture, antique furniture
17 purchasing. And I asked him if he would be
18 available. He said I'm not sure if I'm going
19 to be in town that week. That's all I can
20 say.
21 MR. KLINE: All right. And you
22 testified that you haven't seen the settlement
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 313 1 agreement?
2 MR. RENCHARD: The agreement I
3 received here is one that I received -- it's
4 the only one I got from -- I beg your pardon,
5 it was received from Shaw-Cardoza Group. That
6 was the only one I received. It wasn't even
7 signed.
8 MR. KLINE: You were at the ANC
9 meeting when the settlement agreement was
10 discussed, weren't you?
11 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
12 MR. KLINE: And you certainly
13 could have asked the ANC commissioner who was
14 involved in negotiating the agreement for a
15 copy of it, couldn't you?
16 MR. RENCHARD: Yes, but it wasn't
17 through at that time. It wasn't completed.
18 MR. KLINE: All right. So when it
19 was completed did you contact --
20 MR. RENCHARD: No.
21 MR. KLINE: -- the ANC
22 commissioner and ask her for a copy of it?
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 314 1 MR. RENCHARD: No.
2 MR. KLINE: So you don't really
3 know whether the provisions in the settlement
4 agreement adequately address your concerns or
5 not, do you?
6 MR. RENCHARD: I have not seen the
7 settlement agreement.
8 MR. KLINE: So you don't know --
9 MR. RENCHARD: No.
10 MR. KLINE: -- whether the
11 settlement agreement adequately addresses your
12 concerns --
13 MR. RENCHARD: That is correct.
14 MR. KLINE: -- or not, do you?
15 MR. RENCHARD: That is correct.
16 MR. KLINE: All right. I have no
17 further questions. Thank you.
18 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Do you
19 have anything else for your case, any
20 documents, anything like that?
21 MR. RENCHARD: (No audible
22 response.)
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 315 1 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. So
2 that completes your case?
3 MR. RENCHARD: Yes.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Then
5 we are ready for closing, I believe. Okay.
6 MR. KLINE: Yes, I will be brief.
7 Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Board.
8 I'm frankly baffled as to what it is that
9 we're doing here.
10 Ms. Previte testified as to her
11 efforts to work with every member of the
12 community that she could find, every community
13 association. She spent quite a bit of time in
14 the neighborhood working with people trying to
15 address their issues. And as a result of
16 that, there were two settlement agreements
17 that were entered into, one with the ANC and
18 one with the Shaw-Dupont Neighborhood
19 Association. Contrast that with the lone
20 Protestant we have here who hasn't even
21 bothered to read the settlement agreement to
22 see if it addresses whatever concerns he seems
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 316 1 to have.
2 Now in terms of those concerns,
3 let's talk about those for a minute if we can.
4 On the one hand his tenant's window overlooks
5 the front of the premises for Caf‚ Saint Ex
6 has outside seating, Compass Rose proposes to
7 have outside seating, and Matchbox has outside
8 seating until midnight. But on the other
9 hand, he's more concerned about the back
10 summer garden.
11 I'm at a loss as to exactly what
12 we've been doing for the last several hours
13 when it seems had the parties gotten together,
14 as Mr. Renchard says he has done with other
15 operators and other tenants -- these issues
16 seem that they could easily have been
17 addressed. Instead we're here in a several-
18 hour hearing, the motivations of which perhaps
19 the Board understands better than I do, but
20 they're beyond me as to why we've been here
21 these many hours.
22 The only thing I can think of is
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 317 1 that this is a back-door attempt to bootstrap
2 an adjacent property owner protest on whatever
3 other concerns Mr. Renchard has as a resident
4 up the street. There was some testimony about
5 that. And in terms of looking at motivation
6 of the Protestant, that's all I can come up
7 with.
8 Given the evidence that you've
9 heard, however, given the diligent efforts
10 that have been made by these Applicants to
11 address all neighborhood concerns and
12 residents who came here today and gave their
13 time and indicated their trust in Ms. Previte
14 in terms of dealing with issues in the
15 neighborhood, it's my contention that the
16 Board should grant this license without any
17 further conditions other than those that are
18 contained in the two settlement agreements
19 that you have and that you've approved. Thank
20 you.
21 MR. RENCHARD: My comment is the
22 neighborhood itself has expressed to me a
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 318 1 disagreement on the hours of this
2 establishment. Also, the neighborhood has
3 expressed to me as abutting property owner the
4 type of establishment it will be, a dining or
5 a tavern.
6 In addition, I have heard from
7 neighbors that they do not want to have late
8 hours in a neighborhood like this. They agree
9 to front outside seating to tie in with
10 Matchbox. They do not want noise. That has
11 been agreed to. In turn, I have a tenant and
12 I have people in the back who do not want to
13 have noise/music in the back which would be
14 echoed off the walls in a particular case like
15 this. As you know, it's a courtyard back
16 there, as one can express it, and noise
17 bounces off of the buildings because they're
18 all brick. Also, by having people in the back
19 once again you have clutter of glasses. This
20 in turn is noise.
21 Another problem we have back there
22 is security. We have a three-foot-wide
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 319 1 easement that people must pass through. Now,
2 they're not going to open up that three-foot-
3 wide -- a gate to it, as I understand. They
4 already said that. But we still have security
5 problems in the back of the buildings. And it
6 would be better to have it closed at 10:00 so
7 there won't be anybody back there or
8 interfering. Any music back there as well.
9 That's it.
10 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Thank
11 you very much. And I'm going to close the
12 record now. I think all the exhibits that
13 have been offered are in, unless there's
14 anything else. Okay?
15 MR. KLINE: We have nothing
16 further. Thank you.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: That's
18 Exhibits 1 through 5, Applicant's Exhibits 1
19 through 5?
20 MR. KLINE: (No audible response.)
21 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. I
22 don't believe you had any exhibits.
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 320 1 MR. RENCHARD: (No audible
2 response.)
3 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: All right.
4 Now I'm going to ask the parties if they wish
5 to file proposed findings of facts and
6 conclusions of law, or waive their right to do
7 so. If you have a question about what that
8 means, let me know. Do you have a question
9 about what that means?
10 MR. RENCHARD: I can't hear you,
11 Madam Chair.
12 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You have the
13 right to file proposed findings of facts and
14 conclusions of law if you so choose to do so,
15 or you can waive your right to do that. If
16 you have a question about what that means,
17 I'll explain it a little further.
18 MR. RENCHARD: Please.
19 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. Most
20 parties don't avail themselves of this, but
21 you can if you so choose. There will be a
22 transcript from this hearing which will be
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 321 1 available in about two weeks or so. You would
2 have the opportunity to read the transcript
3 and then file a written document like a brief
4 in which you would identify the evidence in
5 the record from testimony/documents that you
6 would like the Board to look at that you
7 believe is favorable to your case and you
8 would want the Board to find those as facts.
9 And then you would make a legal argument that
10 based on the law these facts show that you're
11 entitled to the case that you're making.
12 MR. RENCHARD: I waive the right.
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You'll waive
14 it? All right.
15 MR. KLINE: We're going to waive
16 also.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: You're going
18 to waive also? Okay. That's done. All
19 right.
20 So what's going to happen then is
21 this case is finished. The Board will
22 deliberate in executive session and issue an
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 322 1 written order within 90 days. And I'm going
2 to have --
3 MR. KLINE: Sixty days, I believe.
4 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Sixty days is
5 the new protest. Yes, I think you're right.
6 Okay. This is the first I think, so thank
7 you. Sixty days.
8 Okay. So all that's left is for
9 us to take a vote on deliberating on this in
10 closed sessions. I'm going to do that right
11 now, unless you have any questions.
12 (No audible response.)
13 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Okay. You
14 don't have to hang around for this, but you're
15 welcome to.
16 Okay. As Chairperson of the
17 Alcoholic Beverage Control Board for the
18 District of Columbia and in accordance with
19 Section 405 of the Open Meetings Amendment Act
20 of 2010, I move that the ABC Board hold a
21 closed meeting for the purpose of seeking
22 legal advice from our counsel on Case No. 13-
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 323 1 PRO-00006, Compass Rose, per Section 405(b)(4)
2 of the Open Meetings Amendment Act of 2010 and
3 deliberating upon this case for the reasons
4 cited in Section 405(b)(13) of the Open
5 Meetings Amendment Act of 2010. Is there a
6 second?
7 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: Second.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr.
9 Silverstein has seconded the motion. I'll now
10 take a roll call vote on the motion that's
11 before us now that it's been seconded. Mr.
12 Jones?
13 MEMBER JONES: I agree.
14 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: Mr.
15 Silverstein?
16 MEMBER SILVERSTEIN: I agree.
17 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: And Ms.
18 Miller agrees.
19 It appears that the motion has
20 passed by a 3-0-0 vote. I hereby give notice
21 that the ABC Board will hold a closed meeting
22 in the ABC Board conference room probably next
Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc. 202-234-4433 Page 324 1 Wednesday pursuant to the Open Meetings
2 Amendment Act of 2010 and issue an order
3 within 60 days.
4 Thank you. Have a good night.
5 MR. KLINE: I missed getting it on
6 the record, but once again thank all of you
7 for staying extraordinary late hours.
8 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: We're not
9 even done.
10 MEMBER JONES: You're welcome.
11 CHAIRPERSON MILLER: But thank
12 you, yes.
13 (Whereupon, the hearing was
14 concluded at 9:54 p.m.)
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
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