BRITISH-IRISH PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY Forty-eighth Plenary Session 30 March – 1 April 2014, Dublin 1 MEMBERSHIP OF THE BRITISH-IRISH PARLIAMENTARY ASSEMBLY STEERING COMMITTEE Co-Chairs Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Mr Joe McHUGH TD Vice-Chairs Mr Séamus KIRK TD Rt Hon Paul MURPHY MP Mr Pádraig MacLOCHLAINN TD Mr Robert WALTER MP MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE Oireachtas Members British Members Mr Joe McHUGH TD Mr Laurence ROBERTSON MP Senator Terry BRENNAN Baroness BLOOD MBE Senator Paul COGHLAN Viscount BRIDGEMAN Mr Seán CONLAN TD Mr Oliver COLVILE MP Mr Seán CROWE TD Mr Jim DOBBIN MP Senator John CROWN Baroness DOOCEY OBE Senator Maurice CUMMINS Lord DUBS Mr Frank FEIGHAN TD Mr Paul FLYNN MP Senator Imelda HENRY Lord GERMAN OBE Mr Martin HEYDON TD Mr Jack LOPRESTI MP Senator Cáit KEANE Rt Hon Paul MURPHY MP Mr Séamus KIRK TD Mr Mark PRITCHARD MP Mr John LYONS TD Mr John ROBERTSON MP Mr Mattie McGRATH TD Mr Andrew ROSINDELL MP Senator Paschal MOONEY Mr Jim SHERIDAN MP Mr John Paul PHELAN TD Lord SKELMERSDALE Mr Patrick O’Dononvan TD Lord SHUTT Mr Joe O’Reilly TD Mr Robin WALKER MP Mr Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD Mr Robert WALTER MP Mr Arthur SPRING TD Mr Jack WALL TD Senator Jim WALSH 2 Welsh Assembly Members Scottish Parliament Members Mr David MELDING AM Mr John SCOTT MSP Mr Darren MILLAR AM Mr Willie COFFEY MSP Mr William POWELL AM Mr Gordon MacDONALD MSP Mrs Joyce WATSON AM Ms Alison McINNES MSP Mr Lindsay WHITTLE AM Mr Michael McMAHON MSP Tynwald Member Northern Ireland Assembly Members The Hon Stephen RODAN SHK Ms Judith COCHRANE MLA Mr Barry McELDUFF MLA States of Jersey Member Mr Jim WELLS MLA Deputy John Le FONDRÉ States of Guernsey Member Deputy Roger PERROT OTHERS ATTENDING AS GUEST SPEAKERS Mr Michael Wardick, Mr Gerry Kindlon, Senior Heritage Guide, Royal Hospital Senior Vice President, Londonderry Kilmainham Chamber of Commerce Mr Brian Hayes TD, Ms Ann Riordan, Minister of State, Department of Public Chairperson, Science Foundation of Expenditure and Reform with special Ireland responsibility for the Office of Public Works Mr Frank Ryan, Chair, Industrial Development Authority Mr Michael O’Leary, Chief Executive, Ryanair Dr Eoin O’Malley, School of Law and Government, Dublin An Taoiseach, Enda Kenny TD City University Mr Brendan Howlin, Dr Richard Boyle, Minister for Public Expenditure and Head of Research, Publishing and Reform Corporate Relations, Institute of Public Administration 3 OFFICIALS Joint Clerks to the Assembly Clerks of the Devolved Institutions Dr Robin James, British Co-Clerk Mr Steven Bell Ms Sinéad Quinn, Irish Co-Clerk Mr Robert Lloyd-Williams Mr Peter Hall Media Adviser to the Assembly Mr Ronan Farren COMMITTEE CLERKS TO THE ASSEMBLY Committee A: Sovereign Matters Committee B: European Affairs Committee C: Economic Committee D: Environmental and Social British and Irish Secretariats Official Reporters Sir Michael Davies KCB Mr Stuart Dixon Mrs Amanda Healy Mrs Jodi Govier Miss Priscilla Hungerford Mr David Hampton Ms Lesley Linchis Ms Bernadette Noble Mr Jonny Redpath 4 Monday 31 March 2014 The Assembly met at 9.20 am. PLENARY BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): First, I remind everyone to turn off pagers, bleepers and mobile phones please while in the meeting room. Secondly, I advise members that as a well as a normal audio recording of our proceedings, both today’s and tomorrow’s sessions will be web streamed on the BIPA website, www.britishirish.org. Thirdly, when members are invited to contribute from the floor, will they clearly state their name and legislature? Finally, I remind members that, while we are in this wonderful setting of the Royal Hospital Kilmainham, our proceedings do not attract parliamentary privilege. It is important to know that. Before moving to our formal business, I want to say a few brief words about a couple of matters. First, we will shortly hear an account of the venue’s history. For 250 years, the Royal Hospital Kilmainham served as a home for retired soldiers. We therefore considered it appropriate in this year of commemoration to choose it as a venue for this session, particularly given its proximity to the Irish National War Memorial Gardens, which we will visit after lunch. The building was comprehensively restored by the Government in the 1980s and now houses the Irish Museum of Modern Art and acts as a venue for all sorts of conferences and cultural events. It is a living, breathing memorial and an important link between the past and the present. I draw members’ attention to the exhibition, “Before I Joined the Army” in the Drawing Room. It is a travelling exhibition, designed and produced by Donegal County Museum, and tells the story of men and women from all over Ulster who were involved in the First World War. I hope you find time to view it. The curator of Donegal County Museum, Judith McCarthy, will be present to help you. I welcome everyone to this 48th plenary session. I hope you find it valuable to your work in your constituencies. Obviously, it is a continuation of good British-Irish relations, and no doubt your views and contributions throughout the two days will contribute to a positive and constructive forum. I look forward to your contributions, and I now hand over to my Co-Chair, Laurence Robertson. NEW MEMBERS The Co-Chairman (Mr Laurence Robertson MP): 5 Good morning, and thank you very much, Joe. It is a pleasure to be here in Dublin again for this plenary session. We are grateful to you and your team for the excellent programme that you have put together and that we will come to in a moment. I am required to announce the new Members the Assembly has gained since the last plenary session, which was held in London in October 2013. It is my pleasure to welcome Jack Lopresti and Mark Pritchard as Full Members and Robin Walker as an Associate Member—Robin is here with us today. In accordance with rule 2A, I have to announce to the Assembly that the following Associate Members have accepted the Steering Committee’s invitation to assume the powers and responsibilities of Members for the whole of this session: from the UK, Baroness Doocey, the right hon. Lord Shutt of Greetland and Robin Walker MP; from Scotland, Gordon MacDonald MSP; and from Ireland, Senator Terry Brennan. PROGRAMME OF BUSINESS The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): Thank you, Co-Chair. Members will have received a copy of the proposed programme of business and, as usual, I ask for your co-operation in getting through a tight schedule today. The overall theme of the session is the future of work with the sub- theme of reform in the public sector. We have a strong panel of speakers for the next day and a half, but I am conscious that there is room for you as members to contribute, and we have dedicated additional time to ensure that. My Co-Chair and I also hope that you will find it interesting and stimulating—perhaps challenging—to look at the challenges around working methods, productivity and the impact of technology on both our economies and societies. I now move formally that the adoption of the proposed programme of business be agreed to. Mr Jim Sheridan MP: Thank you, Co-Chair. I just want to ask a question on the rationale behind the invite for Michael O’Leary to come and address the conference. I am somewhat concerned: is that the face of Irish management or Irish businesses? The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): Other speakers will be contributing, too, Jim, and they are not the face, specifically, of Irish business or Irish management. Obviously, due to time constraints, if you remember back to the last plenary in Ireland, there was a degree of criticism around having too big a panel and not enough time for the Members. Certainly, if you feel that you are looking at balance here, in a particular sector, we will certainly look at accommodating that. If there is not balance on this particular one, we can look at it 6 another time when we will provide that balance. I assume that is what you are looking at. Mr Jim Sheridan MP: I just wonder why him. There must be other more progressive employers in Ireland, and I wonder why him. Anyway, I accept what you have said. The Co-Chairman (Mr Joe McHugh TD): Okay. Programme of Business agreed. REMARKS BY MICHAEL WARDICK, SENIOR HERITAGE GUIDE, THE ROYAL HOSPITAL KILMAINHAM Mr Michael Wardick: You are all very welcome here at the Royal Hospital Kilmainham, a very British-Irish institution. The Hospital was founded during the reign of King Charles II by James Butler, the Duke of Ormonde, who was Viceroy at that time. The buildings were designed by William Robinson, who was the Surveyor General of Ireland. At the time he was working on these buildings, he was also working on the great star-shaped defence fort at Kinsale, known as the Charles Fort. The Royal Hospital was the first, and so is the oldest, classical-style building in Ireland. It is built, as you could see as you came in, round a courtyard. We are in the North Range. The other three ranges were where the soldiers lived—the east, south and west ranges. The private soldiers were accommodated on the ground floor, four to a room, with officers on the first floor, each with their own room. The more agile soldiers who could use the large staircases in the corners were on the top floor.