Tab L, No. 2

1 2 GULF OF MEXICO FISHERY MANAGEMENT COUNCIL 3 4 RED DRUM MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE MEETING 5 6The Battle House Hotel Mobile, Alabama 7 8 February 2, 2010 9 10VOTING MEMBERS 11Harlon Pearce...... Louisiana 12John Greene, Jr...... Alabama 13Joe Hendrix...... Texas 14Tom McIlwain...... Mississippi 15Michael Ray...... Texas 16Ed Sapp...... Florida 17Larry Simpson...... GSMFC 18 19NON-VOTING MEMBERS 20Roy Crabtree...... NMFS, SERO, St. Petersburg, Florida 21Myron Fischer (designee for Randy Pausina)...... Louisiana 22Robert Gill...... Florida 23Damon McKnight...... Louisiana 24Vernon Minton...... Alabama 25Julie Morris...... Florida 26William Perret (designee for William Walker)...... Mississippi 27Robin Riechers (designee for Larry McKinney)...... Texas 28Bob Shipp...... Alabama 29William Teehan (designee for Ken Haddad)...... Florida 30Kay Williams...... Mississippi 31 32STAFF 33Steven Atran...... Population Dynamics Statistician 34Steve Bortone...... Executive Director 35Karen Burns...... Ecosystems Management Specialist 36Assane Diagne...... Economist 37John Froeschke...... Fishery Biologist 38Trish Kennedy...... Administrative Assistant 39Shepherd Grimes...... NOAA General Counsel 40Karen Hoak...... Secretary 41Richard Leard...... Deputy Executive Director 42Phyllis Miranda...... Secretary 43Charlene Ponce...... Public Information Officer 44Cathy Readinger...... Administrative Officer 45Carrie Simmons...... Fishery Biologist 46Amanda Thomas...... Court Reporter 47 48OTHER PARTICIPANTS

1 1 2 1Ken Anderson...... Panama City, FL 2Pam Anderson...... Panama City Beach, FL 3Matt Andrews...... Panama City, FL 4Kevin Anson...... AL 5Tom Ard...... Orange Beach, AL 6Louis Barberi...... Pensacola, FL 7Tom Becker...... Biloxi, MS 8Philip Blackburn...... Fort Walton Beach, FL 9Ken Blackman...... Destin, FL 10Harvey Board...... Navarre, FL 11Steve Branstetter...... NMFS, St. Petersburg, FL 12John Brumble...... Destin, FL 13Glen Brooks...... GFA, Bradenton, FL 14Jeremy Brooks...... Southport, FL 15Steve Campbell...... NOAA, Slidell, LA 16Evonn Caraway...... Freeport, TX 17Daryl Carpenter...... Baton Rouge, LA 18Jim Clements...... Carrabelle, FL 19Vicky Cornish...... Ocean Conservancy, Washington, D.C. 20Bill Coursen...... Pensacola, FL 21Steve Cunningham...... Bayou Vista, TX 22Bill Curston...... Destin, FL 23Jason DeLaCruz...... Seminole, FL 24Donald Dineen...... Destin, FL 25Chris Dorsett...... Austin, TX 26F.D. Eicke...... Ocean Springs, MS 27Mike Eller...... Destin, FL 28Ben Fairey...... Orange Beach, AL 29Libby Fetherston...... St. Petersburg, FL 30Maurice Fitzsimmons...... Daphne, AL 31Tony Frady...... Lillian, AL 32Abigail Franklin...... NOAA, Silver Spring, MD 33Claudia Friess...... Ocean Conservancy 34Benny Gallaway...... Bryan, TX 35Noah Gibson...... Wing, AL 36Richard Gibson...... Florala, AL 37Christopher Gledhill...... NOAA, Pascagoula, MS 38Jeff Golden...... Valrico, FL 39Keith Guindon...... Galveston, TX 40William Hagendorfer...... Lillian, AL 41Chad Hanson...... Pew Environmental Group 42Tom Haugen...... St. Marks, FL 43Scott Hickman...... League City, TX 44Daral Holman...... Bayou La Batre, LA 45Henry Hunt...... Panama City, FL 46Larry Huntly...... Pensacola, FL 47Judy Jamieson...... GASAFF, Tampa, FL 48Gary Jarvis...... Destin, FL

1 2 2 1Michael Jennings...... Freeport, TX 2Benjamin Kelley...... Panama City, FL 3Mark Kelley...... Panama City, FL 4James Kejonen...... NOAA, Slidell, LA 5Richard Keough...... Orange Beach, AL 6Darral Keys...... FL 7David Krebs...... Destin, FL 8Matt Kumm...... Pensacola, FL 9John Law...... Panama City, FL 10Larry Lemieux...... Southport, FL 11Ron Lukens...... High Springs, FL 12John Mareska...... Alabama MRD 13Corey Matherne...... Baton Rouge, LA 14Charles Miller...... Milton, FL 15Dave Mucci...... Pensacola, FL 16Russell Nelson...... CCA, FL 17Bart Niquet...... Lynn Haven, FL 18Chris Niquet...... Lynn Haven, FL 19Mike Nugent...... Aransas Pass, TX 20Dennis O’Hern...... FRA, St. Petersburg, FL 21Karen Parker...... Verbena, AL 22George Pfeiffer...... Elberta, AL 23Michael Pitts...... Pensacola, FL 24Bonnie Ponwith...... SEFSC 25Sean Powers...... Mobile, AL 26Kevin Rademacher...... NOAA, Pascagoula, MS 27Earl Rader...... Pensacola, FL 28David Rainer...... Silverhill, AL 29Tracy Redding...... Bon Secour, AL 30Paul Redman...... Pensacola, FL 31James Richardson...... Lynn Haven, FL 32Scott Robson...... Destin, FL 33Michael Salley...... Pensacola, FL 34John Schmidt...... Palm Harbor, FL 35Christina Schobernd...... NOAA, Pascagoula, MS 36Bob Spaeth...... Madeira Beach, FL 37Tom Steber...... Orange Beach, AL 38Gerald Struck...... Pensacola, FL 39Don Sudduth...... Orange Beach, AL 40Michael Sullivan...... Panama City, FL 41Steve Szedlmayer...... Fairhope, AL 42Joe Tate...... Navarre, FL 43T.J. Tate...... St. Augustine, FL 44Mike Thierry...... Dauphin Island, AL 45Bill Tucker...... Dunedin, FL 46Robert Turpin...... Pensacola, FL 47Russell Underwood...... Lynn Haven, FL 48Robert VanDeWall...... Gulf Breeze, FL

1 3 2 1David Walker...... Andalusia, AL 2William Walker...... MS DMR 3Greg Ward...... Orange Beach, AL 4Donald Waters...... Pensacola, FL 5Wayne Werner...... Alachua, FL 6Johnny Williams...... Alvin, TX 7Kelly Windes...... Destin, FL 8Dale Woodruff...... Orange Beach, AL 9Bob Zales, II...... Panama City, FL 10Jim Zurbrick...... Steinhatchee, FL 11 12 - - - 13 14The Red Drum Management Committee of the Gulf of Mexico Fishery 15Management Council convened in the Midnight Ballroom of the 16Battle House Hotel, Mobile, Alabama, Tuesday afternoon, February 172, 2010 and was called to order at 4:20 p.m. by Chairman Harlon 18Pearce. 19 20CHAIRMAN HARLON PEARCE: I think we have everybody here. Mr. 21McIlwain is here and I see Mr. Ray and Mr. Hendrix isn’t here 22yet, but I’m sure he’s coming, and Mr. Sapp is here and Mr. 23Simpson is here. We’ve got a quorum and we’re ready to go. 24 25 ADOPTION OF AGENDA AND APPROVAL OF MINUTES 26 27I want to adopt the agenda, but I want to add something to that 28agenda before we adopt it. There was some stuff that came in 29late that I thought you guys needed to see and it’s a document 30that was electronically sent and I think it also was passed out 31and I want to add to the agenda under b, move the c down to do 32and make this c, Discussion of Risk Assessment to the Fishery 33from Age Structure and Mark Recapture Study. We’ll be able to 34get something out of that, to see if we can take fish without 35harming the fishery. 36 37Also, while I’m at it, we all have a letter from Orange Beach 38Fishing Alliance in support of opening a red drum fishery in the 39EEZ. With that, unless anyone else has anything to add to the 40agenda, I’ll entertain a motion to adopt the agenda. 41 42MR. ED SAPP: So moved. 43 44CHAIRMAN PEARCE: It’s so moved and do we have a second? 45 46MR. MIKE RAY: Second. 47 48CHAIRMAN PEARCE: We have a second. The agenda is adopted.

1 4 2 1Approval of Minutes, I need a motion to adopt the minutes. 2 3DR. TOM MCILWAIN: So moved. 4 5CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Do we have a second? 6 7MR. SAPP: Second. 8 9CHAIRMAN PEARCE: We have a motion and a second and the minutes 10are adopted. Before we start, I kind of want to give a charge 11to the committee that I’m chairman of and let you know how I 12feel and where I think we should go. 13 14 DISCUSSION OF RED DRUM FISHERY IN THE EXCLUSIVE ECONOMIC ZONE 15 16My charge to the committee is not to dwell on the species, but 17to focus on the fishery that’s been closed for twenty years. 18Let’s think about the fish and think about where we’re going 19with that. We know that overfishing is not occurring, but we 20don’t know if it’s overfished. 21 22We know that other than the states, we’re data poor. We have no 23data in the EEZ and our job is to rebuild and open fisheries and 24not keep them closed and so we’ve got to work towards that goal. 25Our Sustainable Fisheries and Ecosystem Committee tells us that 26we need to modify and update the FMP to set an ACL and so we 27need to think about that. 28 29The beauty of this whole situation now, if we get moving ahead, 30is that the council is in a unique position with a blank piece 31of paper in front of it and it’s our job to fill it in as we see 32fit, to make this program work. It’s very different than we’ve 33had to do in the past. We’ve got no fishery and so we can mold 34this fishery to make it work for all user groups and all 35entities and so with that, let’s start filling in the blanks on 36that page, guys. 37 38On the agenda first is going to be a letter from Mississippi 39requesting the red drum fishery be opened in the Exclusive 40Economic Zone. Corky, do you want to take it from here with 41that? 42 43 LETTER FROM MISSISSIPPI REQUESTING THE RED DRUM FISHERY BE 44 OPENED IN THE EXCLUSIVE ECONOMIC ZONE 45 46MR. CORKY PERRET: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think all of your 47members, as well as all council members at the table, probably 48have a copy. It is Tab L, Number 3. Just a little background,

1 5 2 1just to reiterate what you said, the red drum fishery in the EEZ 2and the states has been closed I think since either 1987 or 1988. 3 4At the time, there was an escapement target goal of 20 percent 5from state waters, inshore to offshore waters, and that was 6raised to 30 percent when the last assessments were made and 7they were made by the states independent of each other. I think 8the assessments showed that for each state the escapement rates 9were at the 30 percent and even higher. 10 11If I remember right, and Myron may have to help me on this, but 12Louisiana, I think, may have been in the sixties for some years 13and I think in the more recent years it may have been down to 14around 40 or so. 15 16With that, our commission had a discussion some months ago and 17the representative of the charterboat association who we had 18been having some discussions with -- The charter industry, as 19has all fisheries, have been hit with regulations and closures 20and so on and so forth and he brought up this resolution, which 21was passed unanimously by our commission and it’s dated October 2227, 2009, when Dr. Walker, who is the Executive Director of our 23agency, sent a letter to Dr. Crabtree and Dr. Shipp, basically 24requesting that the National Marine Fisheries Service and the 25Gulf of Mexico Fishery Management Council amend the federal 26regulations to authorize and provide the following and what that 27letter requests and that resolution requests is to allow 28recreational fishermen to catch and possess one red drum per 29person per day in the EEZ for stock assessment and other 30scientific purposes and allow for recreational fishermen fishing 31from a charterboat to catch and possess one red drum per person 32per day in the EEZ, exclusive of captain and crew. 33 34We also copied the directors of the other four state agencies 35and while I’ve had verbal support from some states, 36unfortunately, to my knowledge, none of the other state 37commissions and/or department heads have sent similar letters 38and I’m disappointed in that, but that’s just the way it is, I 39guess. 40 41That’s the request from the State of Mississippi, to begin the 42process to open that fishery for recreational and for-hire 43charter, one fish per person per day. 44 45MR. BILL TEEHAN: I’m not on this committee, but, Corky, I’m not 46aware of the State of Florida receiving a letter regarding 47redfish. Who was it sent to, the Governor or our agency? 48

1 6 2 1MR. PERRET: Look at the CC’s. In your case, it was Ken Haddad, 2Executive Director of the Florida Fish and Wildlife Commission, 3October 27. 4 5MR. TEEHAN: I will look into that when I get back, because it 6never crossed my desk. 7 8CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Any other comments on the letter from 9Mississippi? Clearly his charge is to develop a fishery for 10stock assessment and scientific purposes and as we get into this 11committee meeting today, we’re going to try and move forward in 12that direction and possibly that will be something we can do 13down the road. Any other questions of Corky before we go to the 14next agenda on the Mississippi letter? 15 16MR. SAPP: Corky, just for clarification, is my memory correct 17that Mississippi is the one state that still allows the 18commercial harvest of red drum in their state waters? 19 20MR. PERRET: That is correct, with a quota of 35,000 pounds. 21 22MR. SAPP: The way I read this, this is just to request for an 23extension of the Mississippi state rules into federal waters for 24recreational and there’s no underlying intent that there’s ever 25going to be a request to open this up to commercial take? 26 27MR. PERRET: This resolution was passed unanimously by our 28commission. We have a charterboat representative, an 29environmental representative, a commercial representative, an 30industry representative, and I forget who the fifth one is off 31the top of my head, but it was passed unanimously. 32 33MR. SAPP: The last question is just clarification for my 34information. The request is to open up the entire EEZ for all 35of the states and it’s not a request for just off of your state? 36 37MR. PERRET: The entire EEZ, correct. 38 39CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Any other questions? With that, we’ll move 40into the next agenda item, which are the Summaries of the Ad Hoc 41Red Drum Advisory Panels, one in July of 2007 and a follow-up in 42October of 2007. I can kind of try to summarize for you or if 43you’ve got some questions as we go through it, I’ll take one at 44a time and you can stop me as we go and ask some questions. 45 46 SUMMARIES OF THE AD HOC RED DRUM ADVISORY PANEL 47 48The one in July of 2007 was in New Orleans, the ad hoc review

1 7 2 1panel, and it was to access available data needed to conduct a 2SEDAR. Back then, we were still looking at a 2009 SEDAR and 3we’re not now. 4 5It was also to try and design short-term research projects. 6That was one of the charges they had. It was also to develop 7long-term, continuous monitoring programs of age composition. 8It was asked to use cooperative research programs, using 9harvesting and recreational sectors to gather the data. 10 11They wanted to develop a study to estimate the abundance of 12adult spawning red drum stocks in all areas of the Gulf and it 13wanted to identify the states’ contributions to the offshore 14adult stocks, which will help in the comparison of the federal 15assessment in the future in the findings. 16 17As we know, we’ve got clear understanding in the states, but we 18don’t have anything in the federal waters right now. We’ve got 19clear escapement from the states to the federal waters. As I 20see it, that’s pretty much the gist of what was done. There’s 21other things in that document and I would open the floor to 22questions about that document right now and if not, I’ll go to 23the next one. 24 25MR. ROBIN RIECHERS: You’re on L-4 and is that correct? 26 27CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Yes, L-4. There’s more in it and we can talk 28about it you would like. 29 30MR. RIECHERS: I’m not on your committee and so I’m not going to 31take a lot of your time, Harlon, but the panel has a whole 32series of recommendations on page 2 and then just at the top of 333. 34 35I think one of the things we need to think about in regards to 36the request is how those fish caught under those conditions 37would actually fit into what the panel recommended in order for 38us to get that SEDAR information that they felt we would need to 39actually produce the next stock assessment, because obviously 40that’s really where we’ve got to go here. Other than that, I’ll 41deal with that more or have more questions about that at full 42council, but you may want to think about that between now and 43full council. 44 45CHAIRMAN PEARCE: I understand. I was going to read all that to 46you, but I knew you would look at it and basically, we’re trying 47to find ways that we already have data for that SEDAR and they 48also want to try and find ways to get other data for the SEDAR.

1 8 2 1Any other questions on that particular document? Hearing none, 2we’ll go to the next document. 3 4That’s another ad hoc review panel, October of 2007 in Kenner, 5Louisiana. I think the charge from Mr. Swingle to the committee 6was to establish long-term cooperative research programs using 7the harvesting and recreational sector and to discuss the other 8programs that were available through the other areas, like the 9set-asides in the Mid-Atlantic, with the 3 percent set-aside on 10their fisheries to do data collection, the use of exempted 11fishing permits in the North Pacific for research purposes for 12the black cod and also in Florida is look at how the goliath 13grouper lottery was going to work for the goliath grouper in 14Florida and how those alternatives would work for stakeholder 15involvement. The goliath grouper model is a lottery, if I 16remember right. Mr. Teehan, can you elaborate on that? 17 18MR. TEEHAN: It was one of the things that we were kicking 19around back in the day when we were talking about the limited 20research harvest of 400 fish, but I don’t think there’s been any 21life to a legislative move for a lottery or stamps or anything 22else at this point. 23 24CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Thank you. The other things that they wanted 25us to look at was to create annual research quotas or a TAC by 26numbers of fish in the Gulf to get data and the third thing was 27to create annual research quotas in pounds of fish to create 28data in the Gulf. Some of the fish could be sold by auction or 29some was lottery, just different ideas that they would have, but 30trying to figure out ways to get data that we don’t have now in 31the Gulf. 32 33Any monies that they would have gotten from those programs would 34have been used to fund other research programs, if we had a 35lottery or if we had an auction. From the auction, any monies 36would have gone to do that. 37 38The end result of this particular document was to -- The panel 39recommended that the council have staff develop a scoping 40document to amend the red drum plan for the purpose of 41developing a long-term research program. That was the end of 42that particular committee. Any questions on that committee? 43This is easy. 44 45Next is the new agenda item that I put on and one of the 46questions that we asked in these committees was what was the 47risk assessment or what would the risk be to the take of red 48drum in the federal waters?

1 9 2 1 2I think you were handed out or also electronically given this 3particular report, Recommended Age Structure and Mark Recapture 4Sample Sizes for the Gulf, but the pertinent data is on the 5second page of that report, that shows that doing a study of 6this size or magnitude, which is pretty large -- We’re looking 7at 20,000 fish and 50,000 fish, tagging 20,000 and examining 850,000. 9 10It looked like you would lose probably 5,000 fish that might die 11in the process, 5,000 that you were looking at, and it had very 12little impact on the stock. The risk assessment for that 13particular dataset was very low. Does everybody have a copy of 14this? 15 16MR. RAY: No, I’m totally lost. 17 18CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Karen sent that yesterday to everybody, but 19the main reason I wanted to get it out, and it was hard for me 20to find it, was just to show that we do have room to harvest 21fish in the EEZ for data collection. 22 23If I’m reading this right, and the committee can help me with 24this, it looked like 5,000 fish would not be a problem taking 25with that particular dataset. If that’s what we lost, it would 26not affect the fishery and it could be done annually if we 27needed to get it done. Does everyone have a copy or do we need 28to get some more for you? 29 30MR. SHEPHERD GRIMES: I received the email and it’s titled “Tab 31L Handout” from Karen on February 1 at 4:20 PM. 32 33CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Karen sent it as Tab L. I can get you copies 34if you would like. The basic reason I wanted you to see it is 35it shows that there’s clearly a way to take fish in the EEZ 36without harming the stock now and that was one of the charges, 37was this risk assessment. This shows us that, but I would like 38you all to look at it. It’s a two-page report, showing how many 39species would be tagged, how many fish would be tagged, and how 40many fish would be looked at and the potential for 5,000 of 41these fish to be examined or would die, if I’m reading that 42right. 43 44Again, the basic assumption is to show you that there are fish 45available to take without harming the species as we know it now. 46Any questions from the people that have it? Again, it was a 47risk assessment that we asked them to do and that was in order 48to do a full-fledged SEDAR at the time, but it shows us that the

1 10 2 1fish can be taken offshore without harming the stock. Any 2questions? 3 4MR. JOE HENDRIX: How would you envision splitting this 5,000 5fish up between the states? It’s going to be important to have 6a good representative sample around the Gulf, I would think. 7 8CHAIRMAN PEARCE: I don’t think that’s for us to decide today, 9Joe. I think that today I just want to get the ability to do 10that and then, like I say, this committee, we’ve got a blank 11page. We figure out how it’s going to be done. 12 13I’m not going to presume to tell you which way is the best way 14to go right now, but we don’t have the ability to do it right 15now and so I would like us to have that option to develop some 16scoping documents that allow us to harvest fish in the EEZ to do 17some of these type of things. 18 19MR. HENDRIX: Is this something we should ask Dr. Crabtree about 20the possibility of doing with an EFP? 21 22CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Dr. Crabtree, can you answer that or Shep? 23 24MR. GRIMES: Maybe I’m a little confused, but it depends on what 25you’re talking about doing. If you’re just going to go out and 26harvest fish for stock assessment purposes, that science, as 27long as you’re not selling the fish and such, that science is 28something that’s done via a letter of acknowledgement. It’s not 29subject to management under the Magnuson-Stevens Act, but if 30you’re talking about commercial harvest or recreational harvest 31and then some research program coincident to that, then it’s, at 32a minimum, going to require an exempted fishing permit. 33 34CHAIRMAN PEARCE: I think my real goal here is we know we’re 35taking harvest away from fishermen right and left at this 36council and if our for-hire sector can get a couple of redfish 37that they can catch and then give us the data back on that fish 38and let their customers keep the fish, I’m all for it. I’m 39really looking for an expanded program that allows our fishermen 40out there to do their job in a better way for us and for them. 41 42MR. RIECHERS: I’m looking at the recommendations and I’m not 43certain that I’m reading the same thing that you’re reading and 44I just want some clarification. Recommendations on the last 45page says age composition data, sample forty to sixty schools 46and sample ten to twenty fish per school. If my math is right, 47that’s 400 to 1,200 fish. 48

1 11 2 1Then it talks about the mark recapture and included in the risk 2assessment is the mortality rate on the mark recapture and I 3think that’s where some of the larger numbers of fish occur from 4and, again, I’m not on your committee and so I don’t want to 5take up a lot of time, but I want to know if you -- Am I not 6reading that correctly or is there something different going on 7there? 8 9CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Robin, that’s basically a summary of it, but 10what I just gave you was a little more detailed and I think 11you’ve already had that sent to you as well, but that’s the 12actual study plan itself and it tells you -- I think it says 135,616 fish and at the bottom, 600 fish or something like that. 14Help me if I’m wrong and let me know. 15 16MR. SAPP: Harlon, I guess I’m a little bit confused. I know 17this is something I would like to see us push forward, at least 18to develop some ideas, but I’m hearing two different things. 19We’ve got this specific request from the State of Mississippi 20that we allow recreational harvest in the EEZ and you’re talking 21about a real specific research request here. What’s your 22preferences for best way to proceed forward? 23 24CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Ed, I think that the letter from Mississippi 25was pertinent for us to see, but I think the real deal is to 26move forward with some sort of a research program and to look 27into the plan, amend the plan, to allow us to do that, to get 28the data we need to access this fishery and see where we stand 29and if we can go forward or not. 30 31We’ve got a fishery that’s closed for twenty years and hasn’t 32really been looked at dramatically and I think it’s time to do 33that and Corky’s was just one idea that was thrown out by 34Mississippi and I wanted you all to see that. 35 36 CONSIDERATION OF STARTING A DRAFT AMENDMENT TO REOPEN THE RED 37 DRUM FISHERY IN THE EXCLUSIVE ECONOMIC ZONE 38 39DR. MCILWAIN: I think the whole idea is to be able to execute 40some kind of fishery here in the Gulf that we can design and use 41to answer some of these questions that we have and in light of 42that, I would like to offer a motion to develop a scoping 43document to amend the Red Drum FMP to allow the harvest of red 44drum in the Gulf EEZ. 45 46CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Do we have a second? 47 48MR. JOHNNY GREENE: I’ll second.

1 12 2 1 2CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Johnny Greene seconds it. 3 4DR. MCILWAIN: My idea would be to, one, honor the request of 5Mississippi to open it up for the recreational and the for-hire 6industry. It would allow us the tool to get out and harvest 7some of the fish out there to be used in some research projects 8to really -- We’ve got an escapement rate of roughly 50 percent 9and so we’re currently taking close to fifteen-million pounds 10inshore and so there ought to be at least another possibly fifty 11million pounds offshore that we could take a look at. 12 13CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Any discussion? 14 15MR. SAPP: I agree with the way that Tom has done it with this 16motion and I think if we want to open the door that it’s the 17proper way to do it. 18 19CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Thank you, Mr. Sapp. Again, it’s a blank page 20and we fill it in, but we’ve got to have the ability to fill it 21in and that allows us the ability to go to work and to see 22what’s out there in that fishery. Is there any other discussion 23of the motion? 24 25MR. HENDRIX: Tom, is the intent of your motion to allow the 26harvest of red drum in the Gulf EEZ for data collection purposes 27or to permanently open it? 28 29DR. MCILWAIN: You could add for both actually, would be my 30intent. 31 32MR. GRIMES: I just think it’s a good idea for you to give staff 33some guidance, maybe some additional guidance, but if you’re 34going to reopen red drum for harvest in the EEZ, you’re going to 35need to update maximum sustainable yield, optimum yield, and 36you’re going to need overfished and overfishing definitions, 37annual catch limits, accountability mechanisms. Everything is 38going to have to be brought up to date. 39 40I’m not trying to put the kibosh on that, but I’m just telling 41you that there’s a lot of work to be done before this gets 42materialized and so when staff goes back and starts to put the 43amendment together, they’re going to need to go back and get in 44touch with me and get in touch with people over at the Fisheries 45Service and talk to them about what the existing plan has in it 46and what deficiencies exist, or potential deficiencies exist, 47and what we might need to do to explore reopening it. 48

1 13 2 1I would also say there’s probably a significant science burden 2associated with this, because we’re going to have to have some 3scientific basis looking at what stock size and what harvest is 4-- Not only what harvest is occurring in the states, but how we 5might explore at least doing it in the EEZ. It just seems like 6there’s a lot of work and a lot of detail that will need to be 7involved with this. 8 9CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Shep, I agree completely. We’ve got a lot of 10work to do, but it’s been twenty years and so we’ve spent a lot 11of time already and so we can make it work and just take the 12time to get it done right and that’s the key, is to get it done 13right and not halfway. Is there any other discussion? 14 15DR. MCILWAIN: I would just like to thank Mr. Grimes for 16building the record. We do need all of that information and I 17think we realize that and as Harlon has pointed out, we’ve 18waited twenty-nine years now or thirty-two years, I believe, 19since we’ve closed the fishery. It’s not like we’re really 20rushing into it. 21 22CHAIRMAN PEARCE: Thank you, Tom. Any other discussion on the 23motion? Hearing none, is there any opposition to the motion? 24Seeing no opposition, the motion carries. Thank you. There’s 25been some statements made that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. 26Guess what, guys? It is broke and we just started to fix it and 27I applaud this committee for doing what it’s doing and we’ll 28bring this to full council tomorrow. With that, is there any 29other agenda items that anybody wants to -- Any other business? 30If not, we’re adjourned. 31 32(Whereupon, the meeting adjourned at 4:50 p.m., February 2, 332010.) 34 35 - - -

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