Transcript of Webinar

Workforce 3One

2015 YouthBuild Webinar Series - Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Date: Monday, February 3, 2015

Transcript By ASC Services

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Welcome, everybody. Thanks for joining us. This is Brian Keating. I'm going to be one of your facilitators for today. Thanks for everyone joining us. Looks like we've got good representation on the wings of the country there. So thanks for everyone for weighing in about whether you're from Eastern, Central, Mountain, or Pacific time. For those of you who maybe haven't had a chance yet, go ahead and type in right now to that welcome chat to let us know where you're from, the name of your organization or group, and how many are joining you, if you happen to be attending in a group today.

We are going to be using an interactive format today with a breakout session. So we'll be telling you more about that. But right off the bat, I just wanted to let you know that we are going to be recording today. So this will be available in a couple of business days. So feel free to keep that in mind, and don't worry about taking furious notes today. Because this will be available at a later date, so you will have the ability go back and re-watch this presentation.

So welcome, everyone, again. We're going to move right into today's presentation so that we can kick that off. But again, the teleconference information's been posted at the top-left-hand corner of the room. If you can hear my voice, you are in that teleconference. So thanks everyone for joining us today. We'll leave that welcome chat open for another minute or two.

And we're going to be taking your questions and comments throughout the main part of our presentation today. And then, like I said, we're later going to be doing a more interactive version of the -- the event where we'll be soliciting you for questions and comments, not just through the chat but also over the phone. So we'll tell you how that's gonna work as we get closer to that part of the webinar.

But for now, I just want to welcome you to the YouthBuild Webinar series “Equal-time support groups; One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach to YouthBuild.” And like I said, go ahead and type in now, if you haven't already done so; let us know where you're from and how many are joining you and from what area of the country you're joining us from today, as you can see here on this multicolored map.

And so without any further ado, I'm going to turn things over to our moderator today, Cheryl J. Beasley. Cheryl's an acting workforce analyst with the U.S. Department of Labor, Employment, and Training Administration, the Department of Youth Services.

Cheryl, take it away.

CHERYL BEASLEY: Hello, everybody. Glad everyone can attend. One of the big things I would like to say is what you can expect from this webinar. The (INAUDIBLE) receive recommendation on the use of type of support group used in YouthBuild called an "equal time support group." The (INAUDIBLE) will be able to network in peer share Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 (INAUDIBLE) strategies. The (INAUDIBLE) will learn the fundamentals and designing and equal time support groups and the key to a successful facilitation.

And one of the things we don't have a webinar format, we don't have a overview of the contents. Of course, a (INAUDIBLE), and a discussion. And a discussion (INAUDIBLE) participate in an open discussion with facilitators and peers. Phones will be unmuted. I want everybody to be courteous, reduce (INAUDIBLE) noise for the best audio quality by muting your phone. If you are not speaking to the breakout room based on the numbers shown on your screen.

BRIAN KEATING: And we'll talk more about that later. For now, just everyone get ready. Your questions or comments, you can type them into the chat at any point. But also, just be ready to participate over the phone. And we'll tell you more when we get to that part of the webinar how to participate specifically.

CHERYL BEASLEY: OK. And without further ado, I would like to present a speaker, which is gonna be John Bell. He's the Vice President for Leadership Development, Graduate Leadership and Mentoring, YouthBuild USA.

All right. It's on (ph) you now.

JOHN BELL: Thank you, Cheryl. Hi, everybody. I'm in Boston, Massachusetts, where we are digging out from another foot of snow that we got yesterday on top of the 2 feet we got a week before. So we're having fun up in the northeast. Hope you're all doing well today. I look forward to sharing you about the equal time support groups.

So here is the height of a YouthBuild student. And we know that they come -- you've seen them; they come with intelligence, resilience, courage, been through a lot in their lives, and are survivors. And they also come -- because of all of their experiences, they come with a lot of stuff; some hurt (INAUDIBLE) experience trauma, rejection, all kinds of violence; post-traumatic stress kind of stuff.

So they come into our programs loaded up, no fault of their own in most cases, but here there are. And so there's two sides to the work they have to do. This is not advancing here. Oh. So one part is what we call the (INAUDIBLE), which is what a counselor/case manager does to facilitate the young person's healing. Healing is what the young person does himself or herself. And (INAUDIBLE), there's some individual practices. Like some of these -- you've probably use some of these things; ways to help them look at their body/mind/heart/spirit, how to appreciate themselves (INAUDIBLE) writing something (INAUDIBLE)something I've taught a course called the seven thinking errors, we can talk about later.

But then there's a group practices. I have to get used to this system here. The group practices. And there are lots of different ways that we can work in groups with young people; peer counseling, the restorative justice circle process, some 12-step. Some of you may have used the power source. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015

In addition, this kind of counseling and healing works takes place with some theory and framework (INAUDIBLE) situation. We know some of them; Maslow's Hierarchy. Ron Ferguson from Harvard did a study of YouthBuild participants early on, early '90s. (INAUDIBLE) others (INAUDIBLE), which I'll talk about in a second.

And of course, all of this takes place in the wider context of the world, which involves how the program, the culture, race, geography, world forces influence the young people and both the hurt they're carrying and the opportunities that are before them.

So a little background. So let's look at a couple of frameworks. So Maslow's Hierarchy we know -- I'm going to spend just a minute on this. But here's how YouthBuild -- you know, you can see we do provide basic bodily needs. The young people say they feel safe there. They can let down their guard. They're provided some -- some money, some employment, training. And when it's working well, what do they say? They well, YouthBuild is like the family I never had; I feel love here, they love me, this is my family.

And all of that helps them achieve their -- their competencies, their certifications, their GED or diploma. And, of course, self-esteem is based on confidence. So YouthBuild fits right in there. And all of this add up to the potential of really being their full selves. Usually -- and sometimes we must do this in the course of program. But, you know, we can get -- if -- if we stay in touch with our graduates, we hear them tell us this years afterwards.

Most of the time in YouthBuild, they don't go to Maslow's tip of the thing; which is what he called "self-transcendence," which is a spiritual fulfillment. Not gonna go there right now.

In the program context, I like to think that we're -- that our goal so to help them with three things; to understand their self, their relationship to others, and how they navigate the world. And in the whole program and the counseling part on the self, there's lots of ways to get at this. I just listed a few there that you can see; one-on-one counsel, different support groups, body/heart/mind/spirit, work, asking important questions like who am I; what's my purpose?

On helping them understand their relationship to others, this oftentimes happens in group. So the group community building, the way you do healthy relationships work. Group counseling and the support groups we'll talk about later. And of course, in the world you have the right skills stuff, case management work that you're doing, and all the leadership skills, which are oftentimes called "soft skills."

Now, let's go back to our overall map. Today, we're not gonna look at (INAUDIBLE). We're just gonna look at one piece, which is this part, the support groups. And for that, I'm gonna really -- hmm. So there's what in my -- in my day used to be called "rock (ph)

Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 groups." I don't know what they're called anymore. You can key me in later on what the real word.

But they're sometimes called "keeping it real groups", family groups." Some programs call them "strong circles," "home groups." They're like check-in times. Sometimes the topics are open, like what's on your mind? What's going on? What did you do on the weekend? You know, what's going well? Sometimes the facilitator, whether it be a student or a staff that's running this WRAP (ph) group might suggest a topic, like healthy relationships or fear of failing, or racism , (INAUDIBLE), whatever. It's wide open.

Another type of group are affinity groups, where people get together from the same background. Like we've had the men get together, the women get together, parents support groups; young parents really need a lot of support, and they can be a great help to each other. People in recovery. LGBTQ groups. A lot of isolation among the groups, and programs can provide a safe space. Maybe the young people in college that are going to -- to college together, or even separately and you organize study groups for them.

So just to do a real quick poll here, if you could click on what type of groups you've used in your program, the ones I've mentioned or maybe others. Just do a quick thing. A lot of people have used the sum version of men's groups and sister -- sister -- women's group. I see that's the main one. Are there a lot of others? I'd like to hear in the breakout rooms what those other kind of support groups are. A few parent groups and people in recovery. Good. I'm glad to see all of those showing up. But mostly, I see the men's and the women's group. And the other, we'll find it. We know what those are. But that will be interesting.

Thank you very much. We can move to the next slide. So just to review, we've -- there's one more group I'd like to talk about before the equal time. So this -- this is happen anywhere. And this is not rocket science, any of this stuff I'm talking about. You have these kinds of discussions all the time with young people. And I like to think of them as kind of where people are invited to talk about questions that they get thrown out. It can be a group-building thing, like what have I accomplished this week, how has Jose been a good leader, have I been a good leader, what did I learn this week, that helps the team, how can we be any better? Kind of a -- you know, you're keeping -- building the team. It's really great to end the week in the classroom or on the construction site with having a little debrief about how things went. And these happen all the time.

So there's these three that we've talked about. And now we're gonna talk -- spend the rest of our time on this one particular type of support group. I'm gonna talk about the, like, why/how/when/and one some of the fine points. And you might, you know, jot down your questions, write them in the participant questions or comments as you go through.

So what is it? Group of --small group -- four, five, six people -- where you divide the time and each person gets a turn to be listened to. The speaker, when it's their turn, shares what's on their mind or heart. Sometimes there might be a question, but usually Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 it's open. The listeners listen with their complete attention. I'll talk a little bit more about this in a minute. And after each person speaks, the person on either side of the speaker appreciates the person who just spoke. I'll say why in a minute. But that's the basic structure.

Why do I like this format and why has it been used successfully in different YouthBuild contexts? Well, this is not different in some of the other groups. But it does provide a safe and well-structured place for sharing. If it's wide open, it's because everybody gets a turn. When there are just informal groups or WRAP groups, mainly the people who are more comfortable speaking in that group setting will speak and sometimes dominate, and the other people feel crowded and not quite wired to, you know, put their thinking forward.

And so (INAUDIBLE) quiet, and the group misses out the good thinking from the quieter people. So this structured way provides a space for every person. It teaches everybody good listening, because it's structured and you're asked to listen, not talk, not conversate, as the young people would say, but just listen during the other person's turn.

They learn to handle emotions effectively. Because when four or five people are listening to you, sometimes the feelings are closer to the surface than you might realize, and they might kind of, like, just bubble up. And with practice, people realize they can go into their feelings, accept them, and come back out, and it's all OK. And other people are (INAUDIBLE) the end of the world that somebody cries, gets angry, feels fear and shakes. So they learn to -- over time, learn to handle their emotions better and better.

It creates a lot of understanding and compassion for others. When you listen without trying to fix somebody, without trying to defend (ph), without trying to think of what you're going to say when it's your turn. You just need to really open your heart to what the other person's going through; both good news and the troubled news.

The young people themselves can learn how to facilitate. It's a very structured thing. It's quite matter of fact. And I'll go through some tips about how to facilitate in a second. And one of the nice things is that it's one of the practices that people can use the rest of their life when they learn this. You can use it with your staff, they can use it with their families, their friends at their future workplaces.

You know, one of the things I like to think about is that part of the success that we're trying to promote with young people is to be able to learn tools which they can use on their own, not dependent on a counselor, a case manager, or the program at large. So now you can expose them and teach skills which are theirs. They can -- that are transportable. They can take them anywhere and be good. This to me is a big win.

So how to facilitate? I -- so I'll pretend like I'm the person introducing this to my YouthBuild program. And I say in a few minutes, we're gonna break up into small groups and each person will have a chance to talk about what's on your mind. You can pass if you need to. But here's the situation. Every one of us in this room is better than Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 we usually show up, is smarter than we can usually show, is braver, is more caring, and is personally more -- is stronger, more powerful than we can usually show.

And a lot of our strengths are hidden underneath a lot of stuff we went through. No fault of our own. We didn't ask for this when we were born. But we got hit with it. And we got hit with it pretty hard, some of us. And that weighs us down. It keeps us from forming high goals and high expectations. It keeps us -- it keeps our relationships messed up. It keeps us all entangled in drama, and waste a lot of our time and energy on stuff that just causes us more pain or causes other people pain.

We know we want to get out of this. So sometimes, I've found that the only thing that I need is someone to listen to me when I'm in a tough space. Don't necessarily need someone to solve my problem, because I know myself better than anybody else. I don't necessarily need a doctor or a counselor or, you know, an adult to tell me what's up. I just need someone to listen to me so I can unpack my own experience, feel my way through it, and get back into my own (INAUDIBLE).

So this is the opportunity we have. And there's some ways to do it. We're gonna -- you know, so one of them is paying good attention to each person who's talking. One person's gonna speak and all the rest of us are gonna listen, these small groups of about five or six people. And then I would ask them well, what makes you know that somebody is listening? And they'll give me something like this. I asked a group -- and when I was doing a retreat for some -- a youth program years ago, I asked the young people what makes you know that someone is listening? Some youth said I want people's undivided attention. He didn't say more, but I added that.

Well, that's a pretty good description, undivided attention. So they'll say things like, you know, I want them to look me in the eye. And I can't look at everybody in the eye. But when I look up, where am I gonna look? Right there. And if that moment I see you, you know, looking at your watch, rolling your eyes, looking bored, then that kind of, like, shuts me down. I'm going to go back inside and offer up something -- I'm gonna stay quiet or offer up something very light. But I'm not gonna feel safe enough to give you anything that's really important. And I do want to actually give you something that's important, because it's good for me to get it off my chest.

Respectful body posture. So I ask young people, you know, usually how they -- you know how they sit, sort of slouched down, especially the guys. Hoodie up, you know, arms crossed, maybe checking their -- their phone. And I say well, when you look like that -- I kind of imitate it sometimes -- does that mean you don't care? Say no, man, I care. I just -- you know, they've been taught to look like they don't care. So I say, well, so that's kind of fake. I said you do care, but you look like you're not caring. I'd like you to pretend like you do care. Sit like you do care. I kind of play with that whole fake it until you make it kind of thing.

So I ask them to sit in a dignified posture. And, you know, kind of a positive facial expression. So if I say something you don't like, let your face say oh, my God, or how Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 could you, or whatever that is. It's just like, you know, accepting a pleasant facial expression. And (INAUDIBLE) I'd like them to accept whatever feelings happen to come up. Or not. They may not come up. And no advice, no comments, no judgments. Easier said than done on no judgments. But no advice, no comments. This is for the facilitator to really kind of set that expectation.

And of course, keep it confidential. We'll come back to this, because this gets broken all the time. The confidentiality is in two forms. One is we agree not to talk about the person's stuff afterwards to anybody else. And secondly, if we want to follow up with the person who spoke, we ask them. We say, you know, Mary Ann, can I ask you about you said in your -- in your equal time? And she can say yes or no. She may want to just leave it there. And that's good and you accept that. So that's sort of a two-way competition.

And then I, you know, arrange the groups. Think about it maybe ahead of time. You want to get people who have maybe beefs with each other who or related in separate groups to start out. And I ask them to sit in kind of close circles. Not around tables. You want to create a physical closeness so they can hear each other, kind of lean in towards each other, not be separated.

Continuing on. So I start -- in each group, I would ask each person to start out by sharing one thing that's going well, just a minute each. You know, had a good weekend, me and my girl had a good time on Saturday night, my mother's feeling better. She was sick last week, now she's feeling better. I got one more test on my GED to pass. And something -- why I start with the good news? Because, you know, some of them come in, they've maybe had a bad day, they've maybe had a bad morning, they've had a bad weekend. You don't know what they're coming in with. And this kind of sets -- sets a more positive tone reminding them and the whole group that despite whatever bad things may have happened there's also some good things to pay attention to. We're learning how to place our attention deliberately on this sort of spectrum from the positive to negative and troubling.

And that shouldn't take a lot of time. Then divide whatever time is left equally. Say let's -- I usually say I like to have about an hour for this process, especially their first time around, because you want to do this right and give them a good experience.

So then each person gets a turn talking. You can just -- sometimes you pick numbers; one, two, three, four, five. And I'll be number four because somebody doesn't want to lead off. Some people like to lead off. Let people have their choice. Sometimes you can just go as the spirit moves. You just, you know, may talk about what's on your heart or mind right.

This is not a performance. It's not a story to entertain the other people. It is something that you want to, like, think about with other people kind of giving you their undivided attention. You can remain quiet. Some people just -- they're not feeling safe yet. And that's OK. They need to just -- but the other people maintain their attention for the length Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 of time. It may seem awkward. But it's actually quite useful to have people's undivided attention, sort of soft and respectful. Not like glaring at them, but soft and respectful, just keeping their attention focused on that person. They actually will probably volunteer something, because it's hard for somebody to remain silent for five minutes if four people are looking at you. It's not a pressure. It is kind of. But it's an invitation.

As I said, listeners really (INAUDIBLE). And the reason they'll want to learn how to do this is because when it's their turn, they'll feel it coming back at them. It's a very different experience when people are really paying tension, versus kind of like just there and looking around and not focusing. It makes a big difference in the quality of communication.

Now, at the end I ask people before the -- at the end of when the person's time is up, I ask the person on either side to say something they've learned about the person, something they respect or appreciate, or maybe something they've always liked about them but hasn't had a chance to tell them yet. You do this in a structured way because if you just say who would like to appreciate Raheem (ph), well, what if Raheem (ph) is not the most popular and there's a big hesitation? He feels like he's just put out six or seven minutes of his own story or what's on his mind and nobody wants to, like, give him any love. So that leaves him hanging. So you want to structure this very carefully when you do appreciations.

And the easiest way -- there's many ways to do it. But one easy way is the person on either side. And it's usually nice. And at the end, the facilitator would say thank you for really paying attention to each other, and remember to keep it confidential. What happens in support group stays in support group. So that's the basic facilitation. We'll come back to a few tips in a minute.

When are some times that you can use this? Well, lots of different places that it can show up. You could start it right off in the first couple of days of mental (ph) toughness. Sometimes at the end of your staff meeting, I would recommend that as -- that your staff try this out first so they are familiar and more comfortable with the process before they begin to facilitate it with a group of young people.

When you have those check-in times, community meetings, family times, it can -- you can break up for a few minutes in the beginning of those and each person gets a few minutes to say what's up. Sometimes in policy committee meetings you want to really -- and I know all of you have policy committee -- policy committees. I'm hoping you do. If not, there's another webinar that's archived where you can learn about how to set up an effectively policy committee. But sometimes it is useful to -- for people do an equal time support group in -- at the end of the policy committee meeting.

Sometimes the community's gone through a hard thing. Some -- some person has died. There's been an accident. There's been something that's been traumatic. It's a good thing to break up into small group and use this equal time support process, because mostly everybody has feelings about something that happened, and you want to provide a safe, Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 structured way for them to process this. Or you can co do it as a regular part of the counseling program that you have set up.

Now, there's some fine points I'd look to go over with you more. So one is I would say this is not a conversation. This is -- you teach this. It's one person talking, the others listening. There's a good time for conversation. But this is equal time support group. It's a different format. (INAUDIBLE) first, the staff need to be in the groups. They need to set the tone, monitor the process, maintain the safety, talk about confidentiality, and be there to, you know, keep the time, the equal time going. Otherwise, the young people won't have enough experience yet until they learn to facilitate themselves and, you know, just kind of -- not as good a experience in my experience, anyway.

I think to start out to have turns that's seven to ten minutes works pretty well. So you want to reserve like three quarters of an hour to an hour for the first ones. You can learn to do them shorter later. But that's a good time. If it's a new group, I usually suggest that they -- and they don't know each other well or haven't done this before or haven't had a lot of kind of personal contact, you might suggest they tell their life story, the ten-minute version. And what I say is I don't mean OK, I was born in 1998 and I -- at City Hospital and I went to PS22 and, you know, then found my way to YouthBuild. Here I am.

It's more like, well, what shaped you along the way? Who was important to you? What kind of things happened the make you person you are? And that's a more interesting story. And it's their choice how much they cheese to share, how deep they go. But if the attention is good from the other people and you've set a good, safe, comfortable tone and you've reminded people of the attitudes of good listening, then usually they'll go deeper than you might expect. Otherwise, if they don't tell their life story, it's the speaker's choice. Sometimes -- you know, they'll find their way to what they need to talk about if you trust the process.

There is one rule that I think is important. And -- which is -- and you have to teach this upfront: Don't use your time to dump your anger or criticism about another person on that person if they're in that group. That just loses the group's attention, because the people all take sides. It'll -- you know, it's like a -- it's a setup for more conflict. So you just have to teach that ahead of time. They may have, you know, some conflict with somebody that's in the same group. You just agree not to talk about it in the support group. There are different processes to handle that; restorative justice, an intervention. Lots of different things that we can talk about later. Not in the support group. But it's important to keep that rule.

Keep the time. Sometimes people are, you know, (INAUDIBLE) cuts people off. But, you know, it's OK. Once they get used to this, they know that they can get back to their -- their issue. They can talk about it next time, next -- you know, in two days when we have another support group or next week when we have it. It's -- they learn to -- to whip (ph) their own process; healing process, disclosure process, working on the issue process themselves. And this -- this teaches a confidence in doing that.

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 So keep the time. Explain that -- you know, if sometimes somebody is in a breakthrough session, that they've opened up something that they've haven't touched before and they're really, like, sobbing away and crying about a traumatic instance, you don't cut them off. You -- you -- when the bell rings or the timer goes off, you say to people obviously, you know, Lucinda is in a critical moment here. Can we agree to give her some of our time? You get that agreement from the group. And usually they say yes, of course, because everybody can see that this is a big moment. And so you get that agreement. But in general, you keep the time.

Now, if emotions arise, just welcome the feelings. Don't shove tissue at them too fast. Don't say it's OK now it's OK you don't have to cry. Because all of us are carrying around huge load of feelings from our past experience that we never had a chance to really tell anybody about.

I remember one time I was in New York City. I lived in New York City in the early years of YouthBuild. And I was working on Broadway about 112th street. And it was summertime, and a boy about, oh, I would say eight years old came riding up by on a bicycle on the sidewalk. And he fell ten -- about ten feet ahead of me. And he skinned his knee. I could see the blood starting to come up on his knee. But he was, like, gritting his teeth. You know, holding his -- his stomach in, not showing anything. And I -- I knelt down. I was a complete stranger. I knelt down. He had shorts on, what's why I could tell -- I could see the bleeding knee. I said -- I knelt down close to him, and I just pointed at the knee. And I said, that must really hurt. He said yes, it (INAUDIBLE) hurt (INAUDIBLE) crying. (INAUDIBLE) start crying. And he'd look up at me. Whenever he'd stop crying, I'd say that must still hurt. He said yes, it really hurts. And he kept looking at me like who is this guy.

You know, but I was -- he was a human being in distress. I said let me not rush on in normal life. Pay attention to somebody who's hurting. You know what he did then? He then, after he cried about this, he began to lift up his t-shirt and show me his scratches and his arms and all the different hurts and scratches and scuffles and broken things that he had, and began to tell me the story about those. And he went on for, like, 12, 15 minutes. A long time. And then he got on his bike and road away happily.

And I thought to myself wow, how many -- first of all, amazing. And secondly, how many of us have stories like this of things that happened to us that were hurtful? Not just physical hurts, but emotional hurts that we never had a chance to tell some caring person about.

And so here we are in our adult lives, as the young people are in their lives at whatever age they are. They're carrying around a truckload of unhealed past experiences. And so when you're in a relatively safe setting, where people are paying good attention to you -- and this is why going back to teaching that kind of attention is really important -- sometimes those feelings arise, they come up. And if we can learn how to be with them, welcome saying this is just right, you've been carrying that for a long time, go ahead, then people -- and it makes some people squirm, because it remind them of what they're Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 carrying around that they don't want to touch. But if they see that more and more, they get more comfortable with it.

When I started this process myself in my 20s, I hadn't cried most of my life except secretly in a couple of movies. But it took me a while before my own tears started to flow again. And now I cry probably every day. Keeps me young, youngish, and refreshed and able to stay in this game for a long, long time.

One more things, sort of a fine point, is to remember to teach people to separate the person from their feelings. Somebody they be having a real angry fit at something. But we're seeing a five-minute slice of their life. Let's not make that their whole life. We're huge, complicated human being with lots of different capacities, experiences, know-hows. So we don't want to get people, you know, pigeonholed by a certain feeling. It's a snapshot. Tomorrow they may be feeling happy. So let's just keep -- remember to distinguish people from their feelings.

And as I said earlier, structure the appreciations thoughtfully. And one note here, they can get into the appreciations. And they often take longer than you plan for. So make sure you have a generous time. If you have an hour, allow for ten minutes of appreciations total. I mean, it won't be all in a row, because they're going to do it after each person speaks.

So on the last one here, if the confidentiality is broken -- and it will be, because we're -- young people are -- you know, they like the gossip. They like to sometimes get revenge and spread people's stuff around the lunchroom. Make it a teachable moment. When we get back together again you say look, you know, somebody spilled Rosie's business all over the lunchroom. How does that make you feel? Anybody else -- that ever happen to anybody else? How did it make you feel? Is this how we want to treat each other? No, I didn't think so. We have to really come together and protect each other. Because we've all been hurt by this kind of back biting and, you know, talking about each other. Let's build a different kind of group. Let's be respectful. And if somebody's talking about something, catch -- you know, check your own -- your own friend on that. And that may take many, many repetitions before it begins to establish a safe confidentiality. I think most of you know what I'm talking about here.

OK. The last thing I want to say is there are some pitfalls to avoid, which are useful to highlight. So one is the facilitator lets into slide into a conversation, a back and forth, just kind of a normal thing. This breaks the structure of really four or five people paying attention to one person at a time.

So you're teaching lots of stuff in this process. But one is good listening, not interrupting, not trying to solve problems. Just being present for someone who's trying to think through or work through their own situation. And that's a very -- it's hard for us -- you know, especially for us helper-type folks who want to fix the problem, who want to help them, for us to just not provide solutions or have you thought of this or what if we do

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 that. Just -- there are times for that, but not in the equal time support group. So keep that equal time and good listening.

So this is the second point, group members not giving their full attention. Again, it's a reiterated process. Let's really keep focused on the person speaking. You'll like that when it comes to you. You might -- you know, after the first time or the second time might ask each person at the end, kind of a debriefing, how did it feel to be listened to like that? Usually it's a good experience.

I remember one person -- one time at the Conference of Young Leaders I was doing -- I was teaching this process to a group of young people. There were probably 30 people in the room. And I asked them to pair up, I think, and just take turns listening to each other, give minutes each. Taught is process. And at the end I, you know, asked them to debrief. And one of them said -- a young man said man, that felt good. I remember the last time that happened, I was five years old. And I said well, notice two things. Number one, he remembers how important that was at five years old. And number two, how it's been 15 years since it happened. And that's a sad thing. So we have to learn how to really give each other full, uninterrupted attention.

If we don't follow that rule and allow somebody to criticize somebody in the group, you lose the safety net and you have to rebuild it again. So just reminding people. Sometimes it's important to say that at the beginning of each support group.

Another mistake that sometimes facilitators make in their effort to try to be inclusive is to insist that each person talk. Some young people are just not ready to talk in the group. So you make the sharing voluntary. You don't demand it. You do, however, protect -- you let them have their time, even if they're in silence, like I said earlier. And that itself is a nice indication of respect; that the group will let you have your own time. Use it -- maybe you pray. Maybe you just -- maybe you take a nap for five minutes. That's OK. We're going to keep our attention focused on you. And that's a nice teaching in itself.

Breaking confidentiality, as I said, if that happens over and over, it's not gonna work. So use it as teachable moment.

One is that sometimes young people do open up very quickly to some traumatic experience. I've been with many young women in our national -- National Leadership Councils where we've had these things. And they -- you know, rape and sexual abuse is so common among young women and by many young men, by the way, that sometimes in that -- that's what's still grabbing them. And they -- they get into a safe situation, they open that stuff up.

And then what do you do? So if you're at the local program and that happens, somebody has a breakthrough time, it's important for the counselor, case manager or someone who that person feels safe with to really follow up immediately; to say do you want to talk more about that, how can we help? You can't just put a little Band-Aid over something like that. It really needs a follow up. It's not -- it's not -- it doesn't happen that often, but Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 it can happen and you need to be aware of it and prepared for it. So -- I'm going to go back to this for a minute. So those are some important things to keep in mind.

This is our overall map. There's lots of things that you can see we haven't even touched on. We've just touched on this one support group process. And I hope that it was interesting, useful. I really recommend it as a process to try. And if people contact me at [email protected], [email protected], I can send a little description of how to do an equal time support group. It's a narrative. A lot of it is included in this presentation, which you can review on the community practice.

So thank you very much. I'm going to turn it back to the people -- I'll be in one of the breakout rooms. And we'll come back together at the end. I think Brian, I'll turn it back to you.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Thanks so much, John. And we are going to go ahead now and do a breakout format. So we're gonna have an open discussion with the facilitators and peers. John's gonna be one of those facilitators. And we may have other folks chiming in, as well. So we're gonna go to a breakout format. Go ahead and we're gonna have -- your screen has shifted around. So you're now with us in the breakout format.

Please go ahead and I'm gonna actually repost John's email address there, in case you want to reach out to him. But we really encourage you to go ahead and participate in this format that we're doing now. So again, I'm going to turn it back over to John and the team. But we do want to go ahead and let you know that we encourage you to jump in over the phone. There's a chat window on your screen that you can also use to communicate with us. But to unmute your line, all you need to do is press star six on your phone. And feel free to introduce yourself. When you're finished, just press star six again to re-mute your line. So we do appreciate that, since we do have a group here and we want to make sure we're respecting each other. So go ahead and press star six to re-mute if you need to. But definitely star six will unmute and re-mute your line. So feel free to take advantage of that feature.

JOHN BELL: Brian, this is John again. Are we having two breakouts?

BRIAN KEATING: No. We're just going to keep it with this -- with this group. So John, you're gonna be the lead facilitators, and others will jump in as needed.

JOHN BELL: All right. Fine.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. So I'm going to turn it back over to you. Welcome to the breakout room, everyone. And feel free to ask your question over the phone line. I just covered that. You can also type into the chat where Monica just typed in demonstrating how that works. So we definitely want to -- we've got some open-ended discussion questions that we want to cover today during our time together.

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 But before we jump into that, I'll turn it over to you, John, if there's anything you want to say or to kind of reintroduce yourself and kind of do some introductions to get things started.

JOHN BELL: Yeah. Hello again, everyone. We have Monica Zeno-Martin from YouthBuild USA, who is taking notes for us. And she'll report out later anything that we need to review. Welcome and thank you, Monica.

So I guess I would just like to start with the question that's up top there; what aspect of the equal time support groups would you like to make sure we discuss/clarify more? And if you'd like to ask a question, unmute your phone and ask -- introduce yourself and your program and ask a question.

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: Hi, John. This is Monica. There was one question that came up earlier that's in the participant questions/comments window about wanting to understand how to effectively implement support groups in a YouthBuild setting. What time of the day is a good time to hold a group, since students are either in class or on the building site all day?

JOHN BELL: Yes. Good question. Logical question. There's no one answer for that. There was that one slide where I -- where I suggested some places that could be used. I think if you have a regular counseling component and you have some kind of group work, you could try it out in those sessions. Not everybody has to do it at the same time, obviously. If you have some type of advisory group structure where each -- where a group of young people are with the staff, sometimes they're large. I know a program that has 15 -- 15 to 18 students and two staff. You can break into several support groups with a staff sort of initially facilitating each one.

You can -- you know, programs that rotate the construction side with the academic side, probably the best time is when they're on the academic side and they have some kind of counseling/life skills sessions. Do it in there. No one -- and you just have to experiment with when it works best. So there's no one size fits all here.

Other questions?

BRIAN KEATING: And I want to point out that you have the option to jump in over the phone by hitting star six on your phone's keypad. Please avail yourself of this opportunity. Not only to ask questions of John, but to share with each other.

JOEL MIRANDA: John, this is Joel here. Folks, this is Joel Miranda USA. I just want to share to that last point that, you know, we have done different types of groups for a number of years at YouthBuild Justice Start. And one of the times that seemed to work well was on Monday, coming in off of the weekend, sort of unpacking the weekend and thinking about -- thinking about the week ahead and how we can support each other in some of -- in some of our goal. And then checking back in at the end of the week. So just to speak to that first question that came up. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

JOHN BELL: Uh-huh. Thank you, Joel.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Great. And John, feel free to call on anyone you might want to hear from. Or, you know, folks, feel free to speak right now. I see we have Kasha (ph) typing. Kasha (ph), if you want to say something over the line, star six will unmute your line. So feel free to keep typing, and/or I would love to hear from you, as well.

(UNKNOWN): And the question we have before you, though we don't have to (INAUDIBLE) question, what aspect of equal time support groups would you like to make sure we discuss today?

JOHN BELL: I know there's some questions out there based on responses to what I presented. So do feel free. This is a good time to ask. No question is too small.

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: Hi, John, this is Monica. So Kasha (ph) -- and I hope I'm pronouncing your name correctly -- chatted a question. She's the counselor and case manager at YouthBuild Dallas. Great to have someone who's serving in that role on the call. And she's asking what's one of the quickest methods that you've found to diffuse a disruptive group.

JOHN BELL: I'm not sure what is meant by a "disruptive group." So I'd need more information to respond. I'm not sure how -- whether we're talking about a group that's an ongoing group where there's tension and how it might relate to the equal time.

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN BELL: I'm trying to keep this focused on the equal time support, because there's a million different questions related to case management counseling healing that are, you know, out there. But if we could get really focused on the equal time so everybody leaves with some understanding, confidence, and maybe comfort level with this one practice among many that you could try it out in your programs. That's -- that would be my -- my goal.

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: It sounds like Kasha's (ph) question is more a facilitation question. And this is something I know you spent time on during your last few slides. She says that in her groups, she finds lots of chatting and people talking out of turn.

JOHN BELL: Yes. We all know this one; right? This is a -- it's a -- as I said, it's a -- it's a reiterated teaching process. And really talking -- asking people how they like to -- to be paid attention to; what makes them feel comfortable; how do they know someone's listening. And have them practice that. You know, role play it. Role play (INAUDIBLE) listening. Some of them are very distracted and checking their cell phones. Ask them for the support group time or the group time you're working with to really put their -- to turn off their cell phones, if they have them at all. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 Because what you're doing is -- is counteracting a -- what's you'd call a "distractive culture" that a lot of young people have been brought up in. First, because of a lot of chaotic situations, sometimes in their own home life, street life, whatever. But secondly, it's reinforced by the technology these days, which has them jump around from thing to thing on the -- on the screens that they're looking at.

So the attention -- they're in an attention deficit culturally, not just individually, that I think we're battling here. So just practicing a slower, a more focused pace, and offering that to them over and over again. It is not easy, I know that. And it's -- you know, it's frustrating at times. But gradually, gradually you can win their allegiance to that kind of paying attention. Hope that's a little bit helpful.

I'd like the know -- maybe the second question, if you could put that up. Who among you has used a form of equal time support groups, and what's your experience been?

BRIAN KEATING: All right. We're bringing up another chat window. So I see Buddy's typing. Feel free to type your answer in there. Or for those of you -- thanks for those of you who have chimed in. But we'd love to hear from you over the phone, as well. Star six to unmute your line. So go ahead and just give us a verbal response, as well.

JOHN BELL: I really want to encourage you. We have 54 people on the line. And I know there's a lot of good thinking, a lot of experience out there, which is worth sharing with everybody. So I encourage you to use your phone line, open it up.

CAROLINE (ph): Hi. Hi, everyone. This is Caroline (ph) and Veronica with YouthBuild Fresno.

JOHN BELL: Hi. How are you?

CAROLINE (ph): Good. How are you?

JOHN BELL: Good. Nice to hear your voice.

CAROLINE (ph): And so, you know, for us, in our experience, what we've done is one of our alumnus, actually Tiffany Cooper (ph), has weekly hosted reflection peer groups with current and other alumni YouthBuilders. And so, you know, depending upon the topic, she uses a reflection book that was actually given to us from YouthBuild Americorp. And she'll pick certain activities out of that book. But it's a lot of self-reflection and a lot of group sharing. And I think that that group is so successful because they're able to do that with an actual YouthBuild alumni.

JOHN BELL: And do they do this -- do they write it, or do they share it verbally?

CAROLINE (ph): Both. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 JOHN BELL: I see. Good. OK.

CAROLINE (ph): A lot of interaction verbally. There's a lot of -- it's project-based, where there's a lot of reflection, depending upon the topic. So what she also has the group do is focus on future topics, so then she can prepare for those, given what they would like to see in the next couple of topic -- or the next couple of classes.

And, you know, there was a -- last week, for example, last Friday, she had a reflection group. And it was they each had to bring a quote that represented themselves, along with a picture. And so it was really great to see that they all really took time, you know, they had smiles in their pictures. One -- our friends (INAUDIBLE), you know, that they don't normally have pictures of themselves up.

So it's an eye opener. And I think it's a way to do a lot of peer reflecting. Definitely helps them to self-reflect and share with the rest of the group and in that kind of setting with a alumni YouthBuilder. And it's more of a connection for them.

JOHN BELL: And it's a nice way to engage your alumni, too --

CAROLINE (ph): Absolutely.

JOHN BELL: -- by helping the current students. Thank you. That's a great example. Thanks very much, Caroline (ph).

CAROLINE (ph): You're welcome.

JOHN BELL: Other people who've used some form of support groups, equal time support groups, what have they found useful?

BRIAN KEATING: All right. And thanks for the folks who are chiming in on the chat. And if you want to jump in on the phone, feel free to do that, as well.

JOHN BELL: This is --

(CROSSTALK)

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: This is Monica. You have a question from Joselyn (ph). She's asking if we've found a correlation between discussion and engagement-based on the time of the day. She knows that some students are more engaged after lunch, but that's a struggle to stay on task. So do you find that it's more useful to do this more or after lunch?

JOHN BELL: I don't have enough data to answer that good question. Again, that's -- maybe Joel, you I -- know when you did it, it was in the morning on Monday. And did

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 you have any more experience on that? But I think it's -- I don't think we know enough on that.

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: Also it sounds like Buddy says that he has done similar groups. And he did his in the morning, Joselyn (ph). So not sure if you should see his comments in the chat.

Buddy, I know you also have some experience doing similar groups. Yours are focused on healthy relationships. So if you want to, you should share that over the phone. I'm glad to have your comments in the chat, as well. Thanks.

JOEL MIRANDA: While we wait for Buddy, Joel here. And John, just to your question, I think it also depends on the topic; right? I think having a morning check-in group on Monday morning to unpack the weekend and -- and talk about goals for the week and how we're gonna support each other around that is very useful.

I think if we jumped into a conversation about healthy relationships on Monday morning, it may be -- that might be different; right? And so I think it depends on the topic. And, you know, I find that it's -- I remember while looking at the program that jumping into a very, very heavy conversation after lunch might be difficult. But that generally sometimes -- it has been difficult -- and I don't know if this is everyone's experience -- difficult getting people to focus on an academic topic right after lunch. And so that might be a good time for conversations.

But I do think it depends on the nature of the conversation, the topic, what you plan on doing during that session. But I would definitely love to hear more about healthy relationships. It's a topic that I'm interested in and to -- knowing more about how programs do this. And I know that it's also something that -- that young people get very engaged in. So Buddy or anyone else who -- who have anything to share there, please do.

JOHN BELL: Buddy writes that he would -- he would call in, but it's -- it's loud in the hallways, because they have visitors taking a tour. So he's sparing us all the background noise. Thank you, Buddy. . This is John again. One of the things that I -- one of the reasons I like this equal time format is that -- and I probably said this in the earlier slide show part. But it's a very simple format. And once people learn it, staff and young people, it's quite easy to use. It -- because you trust the group, you just -- you simply say equal time support group, everybody gets five minutes. Remember to pay good attention. We know what that looks like. A confidential talk, whatever you want to. Who would like to start? And you put the timer on. And then people find their way to what they need to talk about.

And, you know, keeping in mind some of those rules, like not criticizing and not getting the cross talk, not demanding that people talk. Usually this works. Over time, people come to trust the process more and more. It doesn't take a lot of, you know, counselor expertise. People tend to do the work they need to work at where they are in the moment. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 And that's a very good thing to learn. It also teaches that process of listening. And so the more you do this, the more you can -- even in the other parts of your program, when they -- when they're used to using an equal time support process, you can kind of pull on the listening skills and say remember to give each other? Each speaker who's speaking in our community (INAUDIBLE) your full attention. And again, it makes a difference over time. Again, not easy. But doable.

KATHLEEN (ph): Hello, John?

JOHN BELL: Yes.

KATHLEEN (ph): Hi. This is Kathleen (ph) in Santa Fe. We -- we do our leadership skills and career development classes on Fridays. And so we've been able to insert some of these listening activities and, you know, listening groups on that day, as well. And that's -- has worked at different times. I struggle a little bit more with having, like, a regular -- like I'd love to have a regular group that meets every week. And the timing of that, we've not been able to kind of work out yet. But the Friday has worked.

JOHN BELL: Good. Thank you. Glad to hear. I met a couple of your colleagues from Santa Fe at the National Directors Association meeting.

KATHLEEN (ph): Yes.

JOHN BELL: Last week. Yes. I'm glad the program's going well there.

KATHLEEN (ph): Yes. Thank you. Thank you, John.

JOHN BELL: Thank you.

BRIAN KEATING: And it looks like we have a number of people typing in. Please, feel free to avail yourself of that open phone line. Start six to unmute, jump in over the phone, ask a question or make a comment. Make a connection.

JOHN BELL: Thank you, Buddy and Todd for your explanation of the way you do morning check-ins on a daily basis in a (INAUDIBLE) setting. Those are -- those are really good. It's a good augmentation, a good practice. Different than equal times support group, which takes (INAUDIBLE) a time and a more structured thing.

I would like to encourage you to maybe explain that with this -- equal time with your staff. They would find it very useful also. You know, staff -- part of caring for the staff and staff's healthcare, you know, as staff we go through a whole lot during one day or a week. The heartbreaks, the frustrations, the disappointments, the little triumphs and all those things take a toll on us.

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 And usually, many of us are wired just to look at the glass half empty or the things that went wrong and we criticize ourselves. Or alternately, we blame somebody else for all the (INAUDIBLE) that went wrong or didn't happen right. But if you can take a few minutes, you know, everybody gets two minutes at the beginning of the staff meeting to say what went well this week. You set a positive tone. It reminds people that not everything is a disaster, even if it feel like it. Lots of good stuff happens every week.

And so practice like that builds that kind of -- and you talk about -- and you ask people to pay really good attention to each other as staff. So you're establishing that as a staff culture piece, also. And I think it's good to experiment first with the staff and they get comfortable with it.

Maybe we can bring up the next question.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. And I want to encourage everyone to stop and copy what you're writing so that we can move onto the next chat room. So go ahead and copy what you've done so far so you don't lose that when we move over to the next chat room. So please go ahead now and take a minute to do that, because we are going to move to the next chat window.

All right. And go ahead and type into that chat. Next question, which is what are your top three questions or recommendations about the successful facilitation of equal time support groups? Go ahead and type that into the chat window now. Or just go ahead and press star six and jump in over the line if you're able to.

JOHN BELL: I -- I know you must have questions about the -- this format. Or concerns. If you have a concern or say nah, that'll never work. But let's talk about that also. Buddy writes if it's in the morning, bring snacks. (INAUDIBLE). Maybe bottled water and breakfast bars. Nice -- food is always important, especially for young people who come in hungry. Gives them some nutrition to boost in the morning and look forward to. Also have door prizes for participants. Good one.

Buddy, what program are you? Can you tell us that?

Your questions about how would you start an equal times support group? What are the best ways to go about it? What are your three questions? What do you feel more comfortable to experiment with this?

Stephanie writes about breaking into two smaller groups; we had some very large percent of it not been successful altogether. Maybe Stephanie can say a little bit more about that.

The nice thing about this equal time support group process, as I said earlier in the presentation, it gives each person an equal time. It -- it levels the playing field so those who are the, quote, large personalities can't dominate in this format. And it structures things -- and they feel OK too. Because somewhere inside, even though they may have a

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 compulsive need to be the center of attention, they know inside that that's a strategy covering up some other painful thing they're carrying around.

So when you have -- when you have the opportunity to have them relax and take a turn listening, it can work well for their learning also.

JOEL MIRANDA: And John, just Joel here again. And I guess I have both a recommendation and a question for folks. I'm wondering first, I've found that affinity groups, you know, work well. And there have been times when we've split folks up based on, you know, a list of -- of affinities. And then they break up, they share, and they -- they have conversations and they share it with other groups. You know, based on their level of comfort to. And so it's a great way to discuss the issues that affect one particular group, and then for that empower them to really -- to share that, communicate that to other groups and some cross-affinity group education.

And I'm wondering if folks have had any experience with that, or if they're tried affinity groups and what they've been like. So just throw that out there.

JOHN BELL: While we're waiting for any response to Joel's question -- excuse me -- Brittany (ph) brings up a good point. And she wrote that the facilitator have some background or personal story that they can relate to the topic being discussed.

I've found that in equal time support groups for the staff to share about their own lives in a way -- you know, discretionary boundaries, where they feel comfortable -- that's an important thing. Because it -- you know, oftentimes as we know, when we tell our stories, it can relate to something a young person's going through, it creates a bonding, a trust. It grabs their attention more.

And so if you -- if you treat yourself as a staff person as an equal part of this support process, where you're getting something out of it too, you need to work through it as something you're working on, again, to the extent that it feels comfortable, without, you know, disclosing stuff that could be used inappropriately. But you have staff use it also. Even with students. It's a mark of respect also on the part of staff that you're willing to share about your life with students.

I really appreciate all the people who -- who are writing in helpful comments and questions and experiences. Love to hear from some folks on the phone too. It's not too scary to talk on the phone. I think all of us know how to do that.

Does this equal time support group appeal to you? Is it something you think is worth trying out? Could you see it working in your program?

Catelyn (ph) -- Catelyn (ph) raises a very important question about setting up affinity groups and not wanting to call somebody out, or embarrassment. These have to be voluntary, self-identified.

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 (UNKNOWN): Right.

JOHN BELL: So if you -- you know, when I've done this before, I say we're going to break up into groups. Let's say you have actual cultural groups. Well, people have to choose sometimes because they're mixed culture or mixed race. You can't decide that for them as a staff person. They have to decide which one they want to talk about today. Maybe tomorrow they go to a different one that they also fit into. So it has to be self-defined by the young people. You don't say you're going to be that group. That's -- that's disrespectful and, actually, part of the oppression that we're all trying to fight. That make sense? (INAUDIBLE).

(UNKNOWN): And if I could just add, John, this -- I mean, this -- it has to be gradual too; right? I mean, you're not going to start -- you're not going to start date (ph) one with some of the most sensitive topics. Just like you're not gonna -- you're not gonna disclose anything for anyone if they're not willing to disclose it. You start with very general things.

And I remember we tried this and we (INAUDIBLE) this general, you know, do you -- one with smokers, nonsmokers, young parents. Things that they're more public about. And other over time, as they gained -- as they gained trust with each other, then you can start to introduce things of a more sensitive nature. And again, like John said, it's up to the young person to choose and/or to disclose which group they want to go to.

JOHN BELL: Thank you, Joel. And I'm happy to see the responses to my question about do you think this would work. I really encourage you to try it out. It is a very useful tool. And as I said, once people -- it's so structurally simple. You know, it's -- it's just an agreement that we take turns listening to each other. That's sort of the bottom line of it. We take turns listening to each other in a focused way. And then the person themselves decides what they want to talk about.

So again, it's like deciding what affinity group I'm going to go to; what I talk about is also in my hands. There may be an interesting topic that a staff throws out or another student throws out. It might be a good focus for a group, but it doesn't mean that I'm gonna want to talk about that. So you always have to give them the option of them using their time for however they need to use their time.

Maybe Brian we can go on to the next question, in case that's useful.

BRIAN KEATING: Sure.

(CROSSTALK)

BRIAN KEATING: Yes, absolutely. I'm gonna give about a 60-second warning so folks can wrap up any comments. And actually, I don't see anybody typing. So I am going to move us over to the next topic here. So you can type in your comments or you can verbally, as we've been doing, hop in over the phone by pressing star six. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 And now we're talking about how you've managed to avoid or recover from pitfalls and using equal tame support groups. That's the question we're asking now. Again, chime in over the phone. And go ahead and answer that now.

(UNKNOWN): And I don't want to cut off the good thoughts that we got in at the tail end of that last discussion topic. So Monica, I don't know if you want to review some of the things that came in from Kathleen (ph) and Jennifer (ph) and Todd (ph).

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: Yes, I'm doing that now. Thank you.

JOHN BELL: Just a reminder of the pitfalls I mentioned. You might have come across others; letting it slide into conversation, group members not giving their full attention, individuals using their turn to criticize somebody else in the group, insisting that a young person take a turn, the breaking of confidentiality, and opening up emotionally very quickly to a traumatic experience without follow-up. Those are the ones I mentioned. It would really (INAUDIBLE) in your experience on any of those.

Well, maybe we don't -- maybe we're near the end here. Don't want to push this beyond what seems to be (INAUDIBLE) of people --

(CROSSTALK)

(UNKNOWN): Just to jump in over the phone, I do see a couple of people typing.

JOHN BELL: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. (INAUDIBLE) see what Kathleen (ph) might say. That's -- I thank you for that, Kathleen (ph). Yes. Uh-huh. And that -- you know, that there are people who really have difficulty focusing and difficulty controlling their actual physical impulses. Sometimes (INAUDIBLE). It's a -- it's teaching. It's patience. It's finding ways like Kathleen (ph) has here. Maybe touching -- you know, just gently touching them or (INAUDIBLE) close to you.

You know, these are -- it's -- people come in to our programs sometimes pretty beat up by what they've been through. And we need a huge tool chest so that we're not -- as the saying goes, we're not -- if we see everything -- if all we have is a hammer, then everything is a nail, which just doesn't work. It's person by person.

And by the way, one of the reason that I am not in favor of using the term "case management" is because young people have told me many times that they don't want to be a case. They're a human being; they need to be seen as an individual, not handled as a case. And sometimes we, you know, we slip into that sort of bureaucratic way of talking, which is -- I think we would be good to -- we need to be mindful of our language.

Yes. What Catelyn (ph) wrote is very true in my experience; that they don't have to speak. But then, you know, they're encouraged when others speaks and their reception is

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 good and attention is good. People warm up to it in their own way. Thank you, Catelyn (ph), for that.

We have one more question before we get near to wrapping it up, which is that -- which is a general question of what question do you still have about equal time support groups? What would help you encourage you more to try it out?

BRIAN KEATING: All right. We'd like to bring up a question for that, as well. So please go ahead and finish up this chat. We'll give you a few -- you know, 60 seconds or so. So please -- yes. Go ahead. Thanks very much. All right. If everyone could just copy what they've done so far so we can move on to the next chat window. Just go ahead and copy what you've typed already so that when we take down this chat we don't cut you off inadvertently. (INAUDIBLE) copy that, that'd be --

(CROSSTALK)

JOHN BELL: There's a couple of last comments on that, I think some good ideas about different language than case management. Somebody had written coach, adviser, counselor. Lots of different thing you can experiment with. I don't think there's any one answer. It's just to make it more personalized, less clinical, more human in the language and approach.

So the last question is the question for all of you; what's one question you still have about equal time support groups?

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Just one last reminder, if you want to jump in over the phone, you just press star six.

JOHN BELL: There's a couple people typing. Thank you, Brittney (ph) and Brian.

Ray (ph) asks an interesting question about screening participants who may participant in equal time support groups. In my experience, you know, this is -- you know, you have your own particular group. And sometimes you know the person, maybe the particular diagnosis or challenge, mental illness, challenge perhaps, can't really sit in that group.

But mostly, I think people learn a lot just by being in the group, even if they don't share at first. There's a whole nice process and empathy that's built. I think it's worth including everybody, unless it's just somebody who cannot be in the group, that pushes all our (ph) buttons. But then there -- if that's true, they're gonna have a hard time in YouthBuild anyway. So you probably don't have someone that severely challenged.

Best way to split groups besides counting off? I think counting off is pretty good. Because you're right, people tend to stick with their own kind, so to speak. And you want to mix them up so that they learn to be with people and learning about people they may not ordinarily choose to be with. And that creates sinews among the group in that nice way. That's a nice thing. Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 Pick students' names out of a hat? Yes. That could work well. I've never done that. But sometimes you know, you can do it by birthday or, you know, astrological sign. That's a little arbitrary, because you can't always get equal size groups. You do want to keep these fairly small so that every person can have an adequate time. If you -- you don't want it too small. Like three could work. But, you know, four to six I would say is pretty ideal. Five is like right there in the middle. It's a nice-size group and everybody gets a chunk of time.

You can, you know, do every third person. You know how you do that, you count off by the number of groups you want, not by the number of people you want in a group. So if you want three groups of five people each, you count off by threes so you end up with five. And that's a little trick. It took me a long time to learn that. So I'm passing on, in case you don't already know. Count off the number of groups you want.

Come up (ph) as aardvarks and artichokes. All right. Thank you, Kelly (ph).

Any other question you have about equal tame support groups? Our time is almost up.

Well, I want to thank everybody for being on the call. I want to encourage you to try this format. I think you'll find it very effective for lots of things. Even if it's a little unusual at the start because we're not used to simply structuring it so carefully, people get used to it and it relaxes everybody. Because if I know I have a time coming up, I don't push to get into the conversation. I can relax and it'll come around to me eventually. Very relaxing format. And it teaches lots of stuff, like good listening, equality of each person, empathy for people, what people are going through. People solve problems and it's a tool that they can use and teach other people in their lives whenever they go forever after.

So with that recommendation, I don't see how you can turn it down. Thank you very much, everybody. And good luck.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Great. And a couple of final thoughts here before we wrap up for today. I don't know if someone -- Cheryl, did you want to give us any final thoughts here? Otherwise, we can cover this. Obviously, we're saving the date. And I think we've got John's email on a slide here, as well, for folks if they want to follow up.

Also want to encourage people to stay logged in. In a minute we're going to be asking you for your feedback, as well. So don't -- don't log out yet, if you can hang on with us for another minute or so.

MONICA ZENO-MARTIN: I just wanted to bring to everybody's attention (INAUDIBLE) save the date for the next (INAUDIBLE) YouthBuild Webinar will be on March the 10th at 2:00 p.m. And I also want to refer back to the resources that we had listed up on the screen; the U.S. Department of Labor and Employment Training, Division of Youth Services. Also, the DOL YouthBuild web page, which is Workforce31. And then YouthBuild Manual for Counseling and Case Management Equal-time Support Groups: One Effective Tool in a Solid Counseling/Case Management Approach in YouthBuild

Tuesday, February 3, 2015 (INAUDIBLE) program (INAUDIBLE). It can also be found on Workforce31. And the U.S. Department of Health Services Family and Youth service bureau.

And just would like to say that thank everyone for attending today. We had a really great webinar. And I also wanted to thank Mr. Bell for his expertise. And really enjoyed this webinar myself.

BRIAN KEATING: All right. Great. And as you can see, we've moved your screen around to provide us some feedback before you log off today. Go ahead and make sure you vote in this poll at the top right-hand side of your screen would you recommend doing this webinar to a colleague? Go ahead and rate the overall quality of the webinar; excellent, satisfactory, or poor. And we'd love to get your open-ended feedback, no matter what you choose, as well as any additional topics you might want to see on an additional webinar in the future.

So go ahead and give that us that feedback. We will leave it there, but we'll leave this webinar open for a few minutes, give you an opportunity to respond. All right. Thanks so much, everyone. Hope to see you on future events. And have a great day.