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NORTHWEST TERRITORIES LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY

2nd Session Day 73 18th Assembly

HANSARD

Wednesday, May 31, 2017

Pages 2479 – 2532

The Honourable Jackson Lafferty, Speaker Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories Members of the Legislative Assembly

Speaker Hon. Jackson Lafferty (Monfwi)

______

Hon. Glen Abernethy Hon. Bob McLeod Mr. Kevin O'Reilly (Great Slave) (Yellowknife South) (Frame Lake) Government House Leader Premier Minister of Health and Social Minister of Executive and Indigenous Services Affairs Hon. Wally Schumann Minister Responsible for the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs and (Hay River South) Workers' Safety and Intergovernmental Relations Minister of Industry, Tourism and Compensation Commission Investment Minister Responsible for Seniors Hon. Robert McLeod Minister of Infrastructure Minister Responsible for Persons with Disabilities (Inuvik Twin Lakes) Minister Responsible for the Public Deputy Premier Hon. Louis Sebert Utilities Board Minister of Finance (Thebacha) Minister of Environment and Natural Minister of Justice Resources Minister of Lands Mr. Tom Beaulieu Minister of Human Resources Minister Responsible for the (Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh) Lead Responsibility for Infrastructure Northwest Territories Power Corporation Mr. Frederick Blake Mr. Daniel McNeely Minister Responsible for Public (Mackenzie Delta) (Sahtu) Engagement and Transparency

Hon. Caroline Cochrane Hon. Alfred Moses Mr. R.J. Simpson (Range Lake) (Inuvik Boot Lake) (Hay River North) Minister of Municipal and Community Minister of Education, Culture and Affairs Employment Minister Responsible for Northwest Minister Responsible for Youth Mr. Kieron Testart Territories Housing Corporation (Kam Lake) Minister Responsible for the Status Mr. Michael Nadli of (Deh Cho) Mr. Shane Thompson Women Lead Responsibility for Addressing (Nahendeh) Homelessness Mr. Herbert Nakimayak (Nunakput) Mr. Cory Vanthuyne Ms. Julie Green (Yellowknife North) (Yellowknife Centre) ______Officers Clerk of the Legislative Assembly Mr. Tim Mercer

Deputy Clerk Mr. Doug SchauerteCommittee Clerk Mr. Michael BallLaw Clerks Ms. Sheila MacPherson Mr. Glen Rutland

______Box 1320 Yellowknife, Northwest Territories Tel: (867) 767-9010 Fax: (867) 920-4735 Toll-Free: 1-800-661-0784 http://www.assembly.gov.nt.ca

Published under the authority of the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly of the Northwest Territories 4

1. TABLE OF CONTENTS

PRAYER...... 2479

MINISTERS' STATEMENTS...... 2479

185-18(2) – NWT Apprenticeship and Occupational Certification Strategy 2017-2022 (Moses)...... 2479

186-18(2) – Update on the A New Day program (Sebert)...... 2479

187-18(2) – Designated Authority Council Training (Cochrane)...... 2480

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS...... 2481

Territorial Cannabis Legislation and Regulation (Testart)...... 2481

Nutrition North Program (Thompson)...... 2482

Ecole William McDonald School Accessibility (O'Reilly)...... 2482

Maximizing Benefits of Infrastructure Projects (McNeely)...... 2482

Destination Marketing (Vanthuyne)...... 2483

Public Housing for Seniors (Green)...... 2483

High Cost of Participation at Youth Sport Development Camps (Blake)...... 2484

Commercial Fisheries Revitalization (Simpson)...... 2484

RECOGNITION OF VISITORS IN THE GALLERY...... 2485

ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS...... 2486

ORAL QUESTIONS...... 2486

TABLING OF DOCUMENTS...... 2496

NOTICES OF MOTION...... 2497

34-18(2) – Extended Adjournment of the House to September 19, 2017...... 2497

SECOND READING OF BILLS...... 2497

Bill 27 – An Act to Amend the Environmental Protection Act...... 2497 CONSIDERATION IN COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE OF BILLS AND OTHER MATTERS ...... 2498

REPORT OF COMMITTEE OF THE WHOLE...... 2530

THIRD READING OF BILLS...... 2530

Bill 18 – An Act to Amend the Health and Social Services Professions Act...2530

ORDERS OF THE DAY...... 2530 6 May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 7

YELLOWKNIFE, NORTHWEST TERRITORIES Wednesday, May 31, 2017 Members Present Hon. Glen Abernethy, Mr. Blake, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Hon. Jackson Lafferty, Hon. Bob McLeod, Hon. Robert McLeod, Mr. McNeely, Hon. Alfred Moses, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. O'Reilly, Hon. Wally Schumann, Hon. Louis Sebert, Mr. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. Vanthuyne

The House met at 1:29 p.m. women employed in 27 occupations and 53 trades working in the Northwest 2. Prayer Territories. ---Prayer Building on the Skills 4 Success Strategy, we will increase skill levels SPEAKER (Hon. Jackson Lafferty): through relevant education and training. Good afternoon, Members. Item 2, There will be a stronger connection to Ministers' statements. Minister of the secondary education system Education, Culture and Employment. through the Schools North 3. Ministers' Statements Apprenticeship Program and Career and Technology Studies and to post- MINISTER'S STATEMENT 185-18(2): secondary education through programs NWT APPRENTICESHIP, offered by Aurora College. We will TRADES AND OCCUPATIONAL bridge education and employment gaps CERTIFICATION STRATEGY through targeted supports. We will be 2017-2022 more closely connecting industry and employers with students and HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, apprentices through the partnerships we Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the have in education, training, and the Government of the Northwest Territories Skills 4 Success Strategy. We will also has made a commitment in its mandate be implementing incentives for to close the skills gap by strengthening employers to hire apprentices, and we the apprenticeship program. Later will be encouraging target groups, like today, I will be tabling the Indigenous residents and women, to Apprenticeship, Trades and consider a career in the trades. Occupational Certification Strategy 2017-2022. Mr. Speaker, this five-year Our partnerships are the key to strategy outlines how the Government of everything we are able to accomplish, the Northwest Territories will strengthen so we will grow the northern workforce our apprenticeship and occupational through partnerships and collaboration. certification program. Since the program This involves working with the began, there have been approximately Apprenticeship, Trades and Occupation 4,700 apprentices certified, and today Certification Board, industry, education, there are more than 400 men and and business partnerships, and May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 8 streamlining sponsorship programs. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' Additionally, we will improve decision- statements. Minister of Justice. making with relevant labour market information. We have the best MINISTER'S STATEMENT 186-18(2): information we have ever had, through UPDATE ON THE A NEW DAY the reports developed by the PROGRAM Conference Board of Canada, the HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Speaker, Northwest Territories Labour Market our government is committed to taking Forecast and Needs Assessment, the action on the crisis of family violence. Labour Market Information Resource Over the past year, I have heard several and companion document, the Members of this House stress the Northwest Territories Jobs in Demand: importance of the A New Day program 15-Year Forecast. This gives us for men who use violence in intimate comprehensive information on the jobs relationships. I am pleased to report to that will be needed in the coming years this Legislative Assembly that the and allows us to target the education, Government of the Northwest Territories training, and skills development has reached an agreement with the programs to meet the labour market John Howard Society to continue to needs. provide this program in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, over the next 15 years, it is There will be no service interruptions, forecasted that there will be more than and men will have walk-in registration at 36,000 job openings in the Northwest the office next door to the current Territories, and approximately 2,500 of program space. those will be trades-related. Apprentices Qualified counsellors will meet with men gain valuable training they can carry individually to prepare them to join with them through their entire life, and weekly groups. These groups will run do it through a unique form of education continuously, so men can start as soon where they not only learn skills in an as they are ready. If they need to take a academic setting but also learn in a break for any reason, they can quickly practical, work-based environment. The get back into the group. These minor NWT Apprenticeship, Trades and changes to the scheduling do not affect Occupational Certification Strategy, the curriculum. They are based on the aligned with the Skills 4 Success demonstrated need for drop-in groups Strategy, provides a roadmap to plan and on the attendance trends that we our future. The many stakeholders and saw in the pilot. Mr. Speaker, our partners who provided valuable input commitment to do no harm requires us and guidance into this strategy will be to make sure men are in programs that key to its success. This strategy would meet their needs. This is a specialized not have been possible without their in- program for men with a particular risk depth knowledge, and it will allow us to profile. We know that men who progress build a future for the North together, to farther in the A New Day program do ensure our continued prosperity and better. We also know from our competitiveness. Thank you, Mr. experience during the pilot that only a Speaker. small number of men were able to do this. We have an obligation to improve May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 9 our programs with evidence-based heal themselves. They are better able to decisions. We will focus our efforts on hold themselves and other men supporting the men who are ready, accountable for their violence. It is a when they are ready, in the hopes that challenging commitment, and we should we can help improve the chances that commend and support anyone willing to they are successful. The assessment do this work. We now face the challenge process will be improved to include of implementing a program that treatment plans with a counsellor who improves outcomes and provides can help them access the services that greater opportunities to offer this are right for them. By improving the program throughout the Northwest modular design of the program by Territories. I want to thank the John adding flexibility to its delivery, we can Howard Society for its commitment to help more men heal. This is an objective work with our government in the we all support. continued delivery of the program. I am encouraged by the interest of potential The transition to a new provider will be partners here in Yellowknife and smooth. The mission of the John throughout the territories to find ways to Howard Society includes the prevention deliver programs like A New Day. of crime and is well aligned with taking over the A New Day program. Already, Mr. Speaker, I am also encouraged by they are making arrangements for the commitment of this Legislative counsellors to begin meeting with clients Assembly to address the crisis of family and start weekly groups. Again, all violence in our territory. I look forward to counsellors will be properly trained, working with the cooperation and possess appropriate cultural support of all Members of this competencies, and be supported to Legislative Assembly as we take ensure the program is delivered meaningful actions to end family successfully. The Tree of Peace is still violence in our territory. Thank you, Mr. under contract until the end of June, to Speaker. finish the last group and prepare men to enter the groups that will start in July. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Member for Kam Mr. Speaker, I would like to Lake. acknowledge and thank the community MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. partners who helped with the initial Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in accordance design of the pilot project. This pilot has with Rule 36(3), I move, seconded by given us a solid foundation and valuable the honourable Member for Yellowknife experience we can employ in future Centre, that Minister's statement 186- program delivery. I would like to thank, 18(2) be moved into Committee of the in particular, the current contractor for Whole for consideration. Thank you, Mr. the program, the Tree of Peace Speaker. Friendship Centre, for their efforts and the dedication of their staff. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. The motion is noted. To the motion. The men who have found success through A New Day have learned new SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question skills to address the root causes of their behaviour and done the hard work to May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 10

MR. SPEAKER: Question has been discussions with Indigenous and called. All those in favour? All those Northern Affairs Canada in an effort to opposed? Motion carried. secure additional funding to support the delivery of this newly developed training ---Carried to First Nations governments across the Minister's statement 186-18(2) has Northwest Territories. The training moved into Committee of the Whole for workshops that have been developed further consideration. Ministers' cover topics including roles and statements. Minister of Municipal and responsibilities, planning, financial Community Affairs. responsibilities, programs and services, conflict and legal responsibilities, and MINISTER'S STATEMENT 187-18(2): working with councils. Municipal and DESIGNATED AUTHORITY Community Affairs identified topics for COUNCIL TRAINING these workshops based on feedback from community governments through HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Mr. regular surveys conducted by the Speaker, our government made a School of Community Government as commitment in its mandate to work in well as the assessment of annual partnership with Aboriginal governments responses collected through the on a training program for First Nations department's accountability framework. governments with municipal-like responsibilities. I am very proud of the Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to report that work that the Department of Municipal a successful pilot of the workshop and and Community Affairs has done to materials was hosted in Aklavik in design and launch a training program to March 2017. Municipal and Community help improve the governance and Affairs has made the First Nations management capacity of these governance training available in a self- governments. Mr. Speaker, in order to directed, self-paced online format, so move this initiative forward, Municipal councils and individual community and Community Affairs, through the government councillors can take the School of Community Government, has training as required. Mr. Speaker, in partnered with Indigenous and Northern addition to this progressive work around Affairs Canada. Through this the development of training modules, partnership, the department secured a the department continues to collaborate $180,000 federal contribution in 2016- with Indigenous and Northern Affairs 2017 to fund the development of this Canada on the development of job training program. descriptions for positions within the First Nations governments, performance The training program is made up of six appraisal resources, and council self- governance workshops and the assessment tools. This work is part of necessary support materials and the ongoing efforts Municipal and documents. The workshops are Community Affairs is undertaking to designed to be delivered to First Nations build capacity in all community governments with municipal-like governments across the Northwest responsibilities, including the nine Territories and to implement the designated authorities in our territory. recommendation of the Auditor The department is currently in May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 11

General's 2016 report. Thank you, Mr. spike in marijuana dispensaries in parts Speaker. of Canada promoted calls for government to regulate the businesses. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Ministers' On May 26, 2016, Toronto Police statements. Item 3, Members' conducted "Project Claudia," a large statements. Member for Kam Lake. coordinated series of raids on 39 4. Members' Statements marijuana dispensaries. Officers had 90 people arrested and 257 charges were MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON laid. On June 13, 2016, Attorney TERRITORIAL CANNABIS General Jody Wilson-Raybould LEGISLATION AND announced the federal government REGULATION would not decriminalize marijuana before legalizing it. She also said the MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Liberals would not support an opposition Speaker. I rise today to challenge the motion urging the government to statement that has been made by the immediately decriminalize simple pot Minister of Justice that the cannabis possession. On June 23, 2016, Toronto legislation as proposed by Ottawa has Police Chief Mark Saunders announced caught this government by surprise and his officers raided several marijuana has not allowed them to do the dispensaries in the city, almost a month important work of consulting with our after Project Claudia. He said the people and developing a legislative businesses were operating illegally. framework. I am going to share a timeline with this House. On September Clearly, Mr. Speaker, there is a 30, 2015, while campaigning during the complete timeline at this point where we 2015 federal election before the Liberal have a commitment from the federal party came to power, Justin Trudeau government to issue legislation. I said that his party was committed to challenge the Minister that we haven't legalizing and regulating marijuana. He had time to properly consider this, nor said controlling it would protect our kids that there has been discussion on the and remove criminal elements from it, options available. Northerners need to and he added at the time the Liberal know what the future is for legal party would "get started on that right cannabis in the Northwest Territories, so away." they are not unfairly taken advantage of by criminal penalties and so they can On April 20, 2016, Health Minister Jane maintain their own autonomy around Philpott announced the Liberal decisions that relate to their government will introduce legislation to communities. Further, they can access legalize marijuana in the spring of 2017. new opportunities and not let them get Meanwhile, in Toronto, thousands gobbled up by southern markets. Mr. attended the city's 4/20 pot rally at Speaker, this needs to happen now, and Yonge and Dundas Square. As I hope the Minister takes it seriously. marijuana dispensaries started popping Thank you, Mr. Speaker. up in anticipation of the legislation, a public opinion poll at this time showed MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' 68 per cent of Canadians felt pot should statements. Member for Nahendeh. be legal in Canada. On April 24, 2016, a May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 12

MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON Mr. Speaker, there are also a number of NUTRITION NORTH PROGRAM small farms in my riding. One successful vegetable farm is in Fort Simpson. This MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. farm was highly successful in root Speaker. Mr. Speaker, yesterday I vegetables such as carrots, turnips, and spoke about Nutrition North. This will be potatoes, over 4,000 pounds. my second part of speaking on this Unfortunately, they cannot access funds today. There is a continuous issue of through the Nutrition North Program, limited access to proper nutrition in my which places a barrier to them and riding. In my riding, there are two other residents in my riding to get some communities, Jean Marie and Wrigley, subsidy for this food. Mr. Speaker, it that do not have stores. Mr. Speaker, as would be great if this government could stated previously in this House, work with the federal government or just community members must rely on take over this program to build an NWT retailers from surrounding areas to get nutrition program that will help smaller their supplies. and isolated communities. Later, I'll Mr. Speaker, the commute to the have questions for the Premier on this nearest retailers causes an additional topic. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. cost for members of those communities, MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' and it is not always possible due to statements. Member for Frame Lake. transportation limitations such as river crossings. There are also members that MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON do not have access to personal ECOLE WILLIAM MCDONALD transportation. Mr. Speaker, the only SCHOOL ACCESSIBILITY way some individuals get their food and supplies is by relying on somebody who MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le is going to Fort Simpson or Hay River. If President. I want to share some good that fails, there are no alternative means news today about an important of getting the supplies and food they accessibility initiative being undertaken require. This not does not only put them by school administrators in my at the disadvantage of obtaining their constituency. The Yellowknife Education needs, but it also inhibits their District No. 1 has recently secured independence. It should not be this funding through the Access 4 All difficult for any individual, let alone Canada 150 Signature Initiative. The entire communities, to obtain their basic program provides funding to raise needs. A program for delivering food awareness and break down barriers for sources to these communities is people living with disabilities. It does urgently needed. Mr. Speaker, there is that by providing accessibility in our built also a number of community members environment, it corrects or improves in my riding that obtain nutritional source accessibility of infrastructure for persons traditionally. These members of the with disabilities. It aims particularly at community tend to share their acquired improving the accessibility of public nutritional resources with members in places and spaces, such as schools, need. Some hunters are able to secure libraries, and playgrounds. enough meat for their families for an entire year. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 13

Applying under the fund, YK1 has been process for capital projects, and these approved to receive $26,800 for the two particular projects are well under installation of two barrier-free doors at way, with a union participating on one the main entrance and into the lunch job site. Training, employment, business area at Ecole William McDonald School. opportunities, and supply are Access 4 All Canada projects also help fundamental principles and elements of to highlight accessibility issues, thank the procurement process. Maximizing local community leaders for their and capitalization can be measured in a continued support, and celebrate number of ways. As mentioned by the communities' achievements in making honourable Minister of Education, Canada a more accessible and inclusive Culture and Employment earlier, there nation. For projects taking place in have been approximately 4,700 schools, there are lesson plans, apprentices certified, and today there activities, projects, handouts, and tools are more than 400 men and women for teachers to help students understand employed in 27 occupations. Later, I will disability, access, and inclusion. have questions on that workforce and how many are going to be produced The program was launched in the fall of with the journeyman certification in my 2016 by the Rick Hansen Foundation. question and answer period. Thank you, Of course, Mr. Hansen is well known as Mr. Speaker. a good friend of the Northwest Territories through his previous trips MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' here. The Canada 150 element of the statements. Member for Yellowknife program is supported by the North. Government of Canada. Construction will take place over the summer, and I MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON look forward to attending the ribbon- DESTINATION MARKETING cutting on these improvements this fall. I MR. VANTHUYNE: Mr. Speaker, we congratulate YK1 not only for securing have all heard about the Northern these improvements but for taking this Frontier Visitors Centre and its opportunity to expand student and unfortunate necessary closure for public understanding through this model reasons of building safety. The project. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. assignment of space at the Prince of MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' Wales Northern Heritage Centre will be statements. Member for Sahtu. an effective fix, albeit temporary, for providing crucial information to visitors MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON to Yellowknife. The attention drawn by MAXIMIZING BENEFITS OF the closure of the visitors' centre shows INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS how important tourism has become in the capital and across the territory. MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Between the territorial government and Speaker. Today, my Member's the city, the visitors' centre received statement is on the projects of Stanton almost $350,000 in funding each year Hospital and Norman Wells Health from various pots. With tourism bringing Centre. The Government of the in $90 million in direct spending to Northwest Territories has a procurement Yellowknife alone, we realize that is May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 14 money well invested. With support from communities, making it possible for CanNor, the City of Yellowknife has them to leverage resources to invest in recently implemented its Destination their own economic futures. Marketing Strategy that will focus Mr. Speaker, let's enable our capital city resources and attention on aggressively to do just that. Later, I will have marketing the capital city as a tourist questions for the appropriate Minister. destination. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Destination marketing will be able to MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' coordinate all aspects of marketing the statements. Member for Yellowknife city and its facilities and services, Centre. drawing on all the city's resources and assets to attract visitors. Estimates are MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON that increasing tourist traffic by just 10 PUBLIC HOUSING FOR per cent could mean as much as $10 SENIORS million to the city. The extra funding the MS. GREEN: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. city received for destination marketing Speaker, today I want to commend the won't last forever, Mr. Speaker. The City Minister responsible for the Northwest of Yellowknife has taken the tourism ball Territories Housing Corporation and her and is running with it, and this staff for their recent survey of residents government should be working in on housing issues. The response rate of support of our communities. How can 10 per cent of households across the we do that? Yellowknife and all NWT NWT is remarkable. It also speaks to municipalities legislated under the CTV the importance of finding solutions to Act have asked the government to bring chronic housing problems. I look forward forward enabling legislation to allow to hearing the plan for addressing the them to institute a hotel levy. This will housing needs respondents identified in provide eligible municipalities with the coming sitting. resources to grow and develop their local tourism economies as they see fit. Mr. Speaker, I'm going to reflect on the need for social housing in Yellowknife. Here in the capital, it could help create Here is a startling fact highlighted in the infrastructure, potentially a project like a Voices on Housing report. While the conference centre, which could help population of the NWT has increased by build momentum towards a more robust, just 1 per cent since 2004, there has active, healthy downtown core. This been a 53 per cent increase in the legislation is supported by the city, the population of people aged 60 years or NWT Association of Communities, the older in the same period of time. It is a local hotel association, and NWT fact that government is unable to meet Tourism. Mr. Speaker, our communities their housing needs. There are 344 want to develop their own tourism public housing units in Yellowknife, and potential. Tourism has become an seniors occupy about a quarter of them. important new part of a broader, As well, the Housing Corporation diversified NWT economy. Yellowknife's supports non-profits that provide an window for destination marketing is now additional 94 units. All told, there is open, but it won't last forever. We currently not enough housing for about should be working in support of our May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 15

10 per cent of Yellowknife's population MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON age 60-plus. We know that because HIGH COST OF PARTICIPATION there are dozens of seniors on the AT YOUTH SPORT public housing wait list. The wait to get DEVELOPMENT CAMPS into an independent living unit at Avens is six years. The public housing needs MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. of single-parent families and single Mr. Speaker, today I would like to talk people who aren't seniors are even about our athletes who are selected to greater. participate at the Canada Summer and Winter Games, National Aboriginal Mr. Speaker, the people who responded Indigenous Games, and National to the survey had some good ideas for Aboriginal Hockey Championships. We creating more affordable housing in are fortunate to have our athletes from Yellowknife. There is significant interest the NWT participate at this level. As you in tiny houses and creating additional know, Mr. Speaker, some of our very housing co-operatives like Borealis and own have gone on to higher levels of Inukshuk, but people recognize that the competition, and we are very proud that availability of affordable land is an issue we have supported them to get to the within the city. The Housing Corporation level that they are at. These Games is interested in moving its public housing teach our athletes fair play, clients through the housing continuum, responsibility, respect, just to name a from rental to home ownership, to free few. up units, but the fact is only 20 families have opted for the corporation's home Mr. Speaker, potential athletes coming ownership plan in Yellowknife in the last from the Mackenzie Delta who want to 10 years. Many people live paycheque try out for any sport must make their to paycheque, putting in doubt way to a sport development camp, affordability and all the additional costs which is usually in Yellowknife. This that come with home ownership. means that our athletes have to drive or fly from either Aklavik, Tsiigehtchic, or The bottom line here is that both levels Fort McPherson to Inuvik, continue of government need to invest in building flights on to Yellowknife, look for and additional energy-efficient housing to pay for accommodation, meals, taxis, meet the needs of all residents of all and, in most cases, registration. I speak ages. The GNWT has not made that for all athletes who have considered commitment. The federal government participating in any sporting activities, has promised a paltry $3.6 million a year where there are no regional camps, over the next 10 years. The reality is where individuals have to make their that we have a long, long way to go. I own way to Yellowknife to take part in will have questions for the Minister. one of the many sport development camps. This, Mr. Speaker, is in the early MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' stages, when teams are not yet statements. Member for Mackenzie selected, adding to the empty pockets of Delta. parents. Mr. Speaker, we have excellent role models, high performance athletes in May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 16 our regions, who fail to participate again, for future events coming such as because of the out-of-pocket expenses Canada Winter Games, NAHC, and that the parents have to front. maybe there are other team NWT- Fundraising efforts are not that great in oriented events that I did not mention, an economy with little or no jobs, and maybe curling, cross country skiing, etc. the cost of living is very high. Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to MR. SPEAKER: Member for Mackenzie conclude my statement. Thank you. Delta, I believe the Minister is giving a clear message. It has been over almost ---Unanimous consent granted three minutes now, almost four minutes. I believe your statement is concluded. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, Masi. Members' statements. Member for this concern has come to my office time Hay River North. and time again: parents looking for support in getting their children to MEMBER'S STATEMENT ON Yellowknife to participate in sporting COMMERCIAL FISHERIES camps to be considered for Team NWT. REVITALIZATION My concern, Mr. Speaker, is that far too many times, these camps are held here MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. in Yellowknife, where the athletes from Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I haven't had a the Mackenzie Delta, Nunakput, and chance to get outside much in the past Inuvik, and possibly Sahtu ridings, just couple of weeks, but I am told that can't afford the travel and extra costs summer is finally here. That means that associated with sport development the commercial fishermen are heading camps. back out on Great Slave Lake. It is only fitting that I make my sessional What I would suggest is to have these statement on the fishery. Mr. Speaker, camps in Inuvik, have your athletes from earlier this month, the Auditor General Yellowknife, Hay River, and Fort Smith of Canada, or AG, released his report regions come to Inuvik and pay the on the Freshwater Fish Marketing extra costs from their pockets and look Corporation. For those who don't know, for accommodations, etc. I am not all fish caught in the NWT that are sold talking about regional camps. I am across the border must be sold to talking about the sport development Freshwater, which is a federal Crown camps where the teams are actually corporation. It has a legislative chosen. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, you will monopoly on our export fish market. see the high turnout with athletes from the Delta wanting to participate with little When the corporation was established to no cost to the parents. Mr. Speaker, nearly 50 years ago, it was done so with this could be taken into consideration, the best of intentions. However, this not so much with the Arctic Winter month's Auditor General report Games, because this is a success with confirmed what has been common funding provided right from the knowledge in Hay River for decades: community level, to the territorials and to that Freshwater is not serving the best the games themselves, but more so with interests of our fisherman. The AG the summer and winter games, NAIG found many weaknesses, significant and NAHC. I would like to state once deficiencies, and outright failures in the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 17 oversight, management, and operation allow our fisherman to be paid fairly for of the corporation. Given some of the their work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. things I have heard, that is putting it lightly. Further, the report found that the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Members' corporation has no long-term strategic statements. Item 4, returns to oral plan, and has exposed itself to questions. Item 5, recognition of visitors considerable risks in a complex in the gallery. Member for Great Slave. economic environment. 5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery These conclusions are no surprise to anyone familiar with the fishing industry. HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, The only surprise is that things have Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize actually gotten worse since the AG Ms. Nicole Enge. Nicole just finished her released a similar report in 2010. The second year of political science at the core purpose of Freshwater, according University of Toronto, and she has been to its vision statement, is to maximize hired for the summer as one of our returns for fishers. However, it is the special project coordinators for the fishermen who have borne the fiscal Executive Council offices here in the costs of Freshwater's ineptitude. Mr. Legislative Assembly. Welcome. Speaker, if you would like to see a MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of physical manifestation of Freshwater's visitors in the gallery. Member for failings, look at the fish plant they own in Yellowknife Centre. Hay River. It was once a brand-new building, stocked full of top-of-the-line MS. GREEN: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. equipment capable of processing fish. Speaker, I would like to recognize Lydia Now the building is an eyesore, gutted Bardak, who is an advocate for people of its ability to process fish, and who live in need, and who is my demoted through a receiving plant. Fish constituent, and Nalini Naidoo, the are now trucked from Hay River to economic development director for the Winnipeg to be processed. city, who is sitting there, as well. She is also my constituent. Thank you. Unsurprisingly, Manitoba is set to withdraw from the corporation this year, MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of meaning only NWT fishers will be visitors in the gallery. Member for Sahtu. obliged to sell their fish to Freshwater. I MR. MCNEELY: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. am not convinced the corporation will We are proud to acknowledge two last much beyond that. If it doesn't last, Pages from the Chief T'Selehye School the situation for our fishermen will go in Fort Good Hope: Ms. Patricia from bad to worse. We are hitching our Mahamadiva and Adriana Laboucan, wagon to a dying horse, Mr. Speaker, along with their chaperone, Melinda and we need to do something about it Laboucan. Good job in keeping us in quickly, or we will be failing our order, and good job to Melinda for fishermen the same way Freshwater keeping the Pages in order, and has been failing them for the past 50 sightseeing in this big city. I would also years. I will have questions about what like to point out that Adriana Laboucan we are doing to strengthen our is one of the Sahtu Regional Heritage commercial fishing industry and finally May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 18

Fair winners. Her project was based on proceedings. It is always great to have a pow-wow. Congratulations. Mahsi, Mr. an audience. Masi. Item 6, Speaker. acknowledgements. Member for Yellowknife Centre. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Range 6. Acknowledgments Lake. ACKNOWLEDGMENT 22-18(2): MS. COCHRANE: Thank you, Mr. RECOGNITION OF LYNDA KOE, Speaker. I would like to recognize a ORDER OF THE NWT member from a constituency from RECIPIENT Range Lake, also the chair of the Montessori school, Mr. David Wasylciw. MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise to salute my constituent Lynda Koe for receiving the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of Order of the NWT yesterday. For almost visitors in the gallery. Member for Kam 30 years, Ms. Koe has used her nursing Lake. skills to increase the quality of life for MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. residents of Avens to meet the highest Speaker. I rise again to recognize Mr. level of compassion, dignity, and Fraser Oliver, Kam Lake constituent and respect. Her professionalism earned her president of the NWT Teachers' accreditation from the Accreditation Association. I know he has been here Council of Canada. Ms. Koe has played every day so far this sitting, and eagerly a key role in implementing specialized awaiting the debate on Bill 16, which is care in the dementia facility. She is today. I am sure he will be very pleased approachable and respected by all as with our proceedings. Thank you. an advocate for residents' social and medical needs. Please join me in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of congratulating her. Mahsi. visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife North. ---Applause MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. MR. SPEAKER: Acknowledgements. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to take Member for Sahtu. this opportunity to recognize the director of economic development and ACKNOWLEDGMENT 23-18(2): communications for the City of CECE HODGSON-MCCAULEY – TH Yellowknife, Nalini Naidoo. I also want 95 BIRTHDAY to take this time to recognize the Pages MR. MCNEELY: Mahsi Mr. Speaker. from my riding: Riley Menard, Rae Today, I pay tribute to Ms. Cece Panayi, and Mezan Daher, all from Sir Hodgson-McCauley for her 95th birthday John, and all residents of the coming this Monday, June 5, 2017. Yellowknife North riding. Thank you, Mr. Cece was born on June 5, 1922, on the Speaker. Dease Arm on the famous Great Bear MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Recognition of Lake. She is a residential school visitors in the gallery. If we are missing survivor, and began as the first founding anyone in the gallery, welcome to our chief of the Inuvik Dene Band. She also May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 19 received the 2016 Indspire Award for sittings, we spoke about the potential of Politics. Mr. Speaker, today Cece is a going to the federal government, and well-known columnist for NewsNorth asking if we could take over this paper, and an advocate for the program. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister Mackenzie Valley Highway. Mahsi, Mr. advise this House if he has had the Speaker. opportunity to discuss this idea with the Minister or the Prime Minister in regards MR. SPEAKER: Masi. to Nutrition North? Acknowledgements. Item 7, oral questions. Member for Nahendeh. HON. BOB MCLEOD: I have had the opportunity to discuss Nutrition North 7. Oral Questions with Minister Bennett on several occasions. We offered to take over the QUESTION 789-18(2): program if the accompanying money NUTRITION NORTH PROGRAM would be transferred with it. The federal MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. government has been non-committal. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, for the past few They appear to prefer to deliver it days, I've used my Member's themselves. They have had a number of statements to talk about Nutrition North. reviews, and they even have their own As stated in my statements, this advisory board, so it appears they will program is not working for my riding. To be in business for a while. add to this, we have seen numerous MR. THOMPSON: I thank the Premier reports and articles about the for his answer. It is unfortunate the challenges this program faces across federal government is going to look after the North. Mr. Speaker, can the Premier this program because it is hurting a inform this house which department is number of northern communities, working with the federal government to especially in my riding. Mr. Speaker, will make this program work better for small the Premier work with his Ministers to and isolated communities in the North? come up with a plan that we can take to Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the federal government to address MR. SPEAKER: Masi. The Honourable issues of communities who don't have Premier. stores or have challenges such as transportation and freight issues, or do HON. BOB MCLEOD: Mr. Speaker, the not have stores at all if the federal Department of Executive and government allows them to? Indigenous Affairs has been monitoring what the federal government has been HON. BOB MCLEOD: The Nutrition doing with Nutrition North, and Health North appears to have one program and Social Services provides nutritional which is a retailer food subsidy, where education information on behalf of the they provide subsidies to retailers that federal government to the tune of about provide nutritious foods to the $375,000 a year. Thank you, Mr. communities. Having said that, cost of Speaker. living, food security, are all issues that are high-priority for our government, and MR. THOMPSON: I thank the Premier we are always looking for ways to for his answer. Mr. Speaker, in previous improve in those areas to reduce the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 20 cost of living, and also to make more be negotiating with Agriculture Canada nutritious foods available to the to look at other forms of agriculture. As communities even if they are not a government, we have developed a included on the Nutrition North list of number of strategies to help improve in communities. Right now, there are now the area of food security. We have an 15 Northwest Territories communities agricultural strategy. We have a fishery that are now included. We are prepared strategy. We have a small-scale garden to work together to find a way to get the program where we now have, all federal government to engage and communities of the North have small- invest, we would be pleased to do that scale community gardens. as well. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Member for Hay River North. Member for Nahendeh. QUESTION 790-18(2): MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. COMMERCIAL FISHERIES Speaker, and I thank the Premier for REVITALIZATION hearing that. My big thing is, my concern, I have two communities who MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. do not have stores. They do not have Speaker. As we all know, this access to food, so that is probably a big government recently released its challenge for them. In regards to the Commercial Fisheries Revitalization residents that have commercial Strategy. The execution of this plan is in gardens, will the Premier work with the its early stages. Part of the problem that Minister of ITI to come up with a plan so we are facing is that the government that food can be subsidized so that they does not have authority over the fishery, can sell their product to the residents of so we must wait on DFO to make the the NWT on a level playing field? In regulatory changes and the other words, look at the opportunity for infrastructure investments that are Nutrition North to subsidize some of our needed to move things forward. I have a local farmers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. question for the Minister of Infrastructure: since this is a problem HON. BOB MCLEOD: Thank you, Mr. that we have to deal directly with Speaker. The federal government as I Ottawa, how often are you meeting with have said, only provides a retailers' food your federal counterpart, the Minister of subsidy. Right now, they are not DFO, and specifically discussing issues providing subsidies for other sources of related to these infrastructure food production. We did, as part of investments and regulatory changes signing on to the Canadian Free Trade that are needed to get this fishery Agreement, we will be meeting, and are going? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. meeting with Agriculture Canada to find ways to develop agriculture in the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of Northwest Territories. Those that are Infrastructure. interested in dairy, chicken, turkey, we HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank will have to find other sources because you, Mr. Speaker. Since I obtained the of the fact that that is a closed door portfolio, I have met with the Minister of other than existing farmers, but we will DFO twice; once in November of 2016 May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 21 and once in March of 2017 of this year. what point is this government prepared Thank you, Mr. Speaker. to pull away from Freshwater and just build our own fish plant? MR. SIMPSON: I gave the Minister an opportunity to do that because I know HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: I am not he has been meeting with the Minister, sure if this is the time to be walking and I know he has been pushing this in away from the table, just yet, because Ottawa, and I know he is working hard this is going to take a lot of resources to for Hay River to get this fishing strategy get this figured out and how to build going. When it comes to talks with something and get the processes and Freshwater, as you know in my money in place to be able to build statement, I outlined some of the something like this. The challenge, like I problems with Freshwater. Where are say, is particularly around the resources, we at the talks with Freshwater to get and I think we need to be engaged, this fish plant either rebuilt, refurbished, which we are now, directly with the or build one of our own? Minister's office on how we are going to move forward. Hopefully, we are going HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: As all to be able to come to some solution Members are aware, in the Member's between us and the federal government statement today that Freshwater in the near future. Marketing Corp., its future is very uncertain, as the last person standing MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. technically is the Northwest Territories. Member for Hay River North. We are waiting for a ruling out of Manitoba, as it sounds like they are MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, pulling out of the Freshwater Marketing Mr. Speaker. Processing fish is one part Corporation, so that is 80 per cent of of the equation. The other part is their market gone. How do we move this marketing this fish ourselves or having forward? We have been working with the fishermen market it themselves, and Freshwater to this point, and it has been part of the revitalization strategy is to very challenging, and with the situation build those markets, whether they be in that has arisen around the Manitoba the territory, they be in Alberta, or thing, it has put a lot of things into overseas. What are we doing, what is question. The last time that I met with the government doing, to create those the Minister of DFO, we had an markets now? The plan calls for getting opportunity to talk about this stuff. We out of Freshwater. That is what the plan are talking about a range of calls for. We need those markets, so opportunities that have been presented where are we? Do we have someone to us now with the possibility of hired? Do we have markets developed Manitoba pulling out, and we are in in the South? Can I get an update on discussions directly with the DFO office that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. on this matter. HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank MR. SIMPSON: As we can tell from the you, Mr. Speaker. As everyone knows, Minister's answer, it is tough to deal with the quota system being signed onto Freshwater. I mean, it is an organization Freshwater Fish, 100 per cent of our fish in disarray. We need this fish plant. At goes to the Freshwater Fish Marketing Corporation. We believed, as we went May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 22 into revitalizing the fishing strategy, that MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of there are market opportunities for us Municipal and Community Affairs. outside of Freshwater. Being that we are still signatory to the Freshwater Fish HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank Marketing Corporation, we are still you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I am more than obliged to sell our fish to the Freshwater proud to report that the relationship Fish Marketing Corporation. We are between the City of Yellowknife and looking at expanding our opportunities Municipal and Community Affairs is outside of that, but, before we can do positive. Yes, it is true that we have a that, as I said, we have got to figure out new deputy minister, but her experience our relationship with the Freshwater has been many, many years working Fish Marketing Corporation, and now we with community governments. She is not are dealing directly with the Minister of new to Municipal and Community Affairs DFO on this situation. Hopefully, we can nor new to city governments, so she has figure this out sooner rather than later a solid relationship with the City of and get on with the revitalization of the Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Great Slave fishery. MR. VANTHUYNE: That is good news MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. and welcome news. I can attest to what Member for Yellowknife North. the Minister described, as a former Yellowknife city councillor. The new QUESTION 791-18(2): deputy minister was an assistant deputy INSTITUTION OF A MUNICIPAL minister at the time, and we have HOTEL LEVY always had a positive relationship with her at the City of Yellowknife. I spoke MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, earlier about the city's intention. They Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I raised want to introduce a hotel levy, and I am some points earlier about enabling the wondering if the Minister can describe City of Yellowknife to possibly start a the most recent analysis of that question hotel levy. That would fall under the of a hotel levy and what the department Department of Municipal and has learned. Community Affairs, so my questions are for the Minister of Municipal and HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: The Community Affairs today. I just want to Department of Municipal and start, first of all, asking the Minister: Community Affairs has done a cross- there have been some recent changes jurisdictional analysis of hotel levies to as it relates to it. The Minister, herself, is see within other jurisdictions how they relatively new to this portfolio. There is a are presented, how they are run, what new deputy minister, and there is a new the costs look like, et cetera, so we have senior administrator officer at the city, so done that research. We are also working I would just simply like to ask the with the City of Yellowknife very closely. Minister how the relationship between We have had over six meetings with MACA and the City of Yellowknife is them since October, developing a going so far, and are they working discussion paper that we will be bringing effectively together? Thank you, forward to other stakeholders. Mr. Speaker. MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you to the Minister for her reply and updating us on May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 23 what we will term the discussion paper. I identified within this Legislative guess, if the discussion paper is sort of Assembly, and so it is important that a next step towards this possible municipalities also look at diversifying opportunity of a hotel levy, can the their economies, as well. Tourism is a Minister describe to us maybe then what great opportunity within the Northwest the next steps are and what the Territories, as proven by our capital city schedule might be towards actually and the City of Yellowknife, so I would developing potential legislation and recommend that all municipalities, when the municipalities might be in a towns, et cetera, contact the better position to actually start a hotel Department of Industry, Tourism and levy? Investment to find out what programs and services they have that they can HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Yes, actually access to support tourism within we are meeting with the six their municipalities. municipalities during the summer, when session is over, to discuss the proposed MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. changes that we are looking at. We Member for Frame Lake. have also realized that it is not only the municipalities that will be affected by QUESTION 792-18(2): this; it is also hotel operators and ARSENIC TESTING AROUND lodging operators that might be affected YELLOWKNIFE by it, as well. In trying to be as MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le transparent and inclusive as possible, President. Yesterday, the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs is also Environment and Natural Resources reaching out to those operators to get made a statement about arsenic their feedback on the proposed monitoring in the Yellowknife area and amendments. how our government would improve MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. coordination of its responses. This is Member for Yellowknife North. good news and is a helpful response to concerns I raised earlier in this sitting. MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, While it is good to hear that ENR staff Mr. Speaker. These are all positive have begun monitoring Kam Lake and replies, and I am glad that the Minister is Grace Lake, look around. Yellowknife is sharing them with us. I think this is good surrounded by small lakes. What plans information that the public needs to does his department have for a hear. Then, just lastly and very simply, I systematic approach to sampling most if would like to ask the Minister if there are not all the lakes around Yellowknife, and some steps that she can let us know would this include speciation to detect that the department is taking to support more harmful forms of arsenic? Mahsi, municipalities in marketing themselves Mr. Speaker. as tourist destinations, aside from the potential hotel levy. Thank you, MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of Mr. Speaker. Environment and Natural Resources. HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Thank you, you, Mr. Speaker. Diversifying our Mr. Speaker. As I said the other day, we economy was one of the priorities have been conducting some sampling in May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 24

Great Slave and the Yellowknife River, 2017 at Walsh and Banting Lakes. and we have also sampled some of the Existing sediment, soil, and fish data is lakes. I mentioned Kam Lake, Grace also being compiled in the Yellowknife Lake. We plan on sampling them again area. There are many entities, as the this summer. ENR, what we are doing is Member mentioned. Like the other we are compiling some water quality governments, industries, and academics information from water bodies in the who have collected this type of Yellowknife area because there are a information, again, we will work with number of other governments, industry, those entities to compile a list of all the and academics who have collected lakes that have been studied. If there water samples, so what we are doing is are some that still need to be looked at, we are working with them to compile all we can look at undertaking that. that information. If there are some lakes there that need to be sampled, then we MR. O'REILLY: Thank you again to the can look at that, but I think step number Minister. It sounds like all of this one is to see what information we have information is going to get pulled from all the lakes and all the studies that together, and that is a good start. Of have been going around the capital, and course, we have to also think about how put that information together, and then this information is going to be shared decide on our next steps from there. with the public. Will the results on any Thank you, Mr. Speaker. health implications be simply posted on a website somewhere? What is the plan MR. O'REILLY: Thank you to the to make this information available to the Minister for that response. I agree that a public? good first step is to compile what is out there. I am hoping that, in compiling HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: As our that, we also look at speciation or the information sharing protocol has different forms of arsenic. Some are improved, the reports and all information toxic and some are far less toxic. collected by ENR, we will share them Sampling water in lakes is a good start, with Health and Social Services after but we also need to think about some analysis and review. Data sampling of sediments, soils, and fish. collected by ENR will be posted on our Does the Minister have any plans for a website, and as mentioned, reports will systematic sampling of sediments, soils, be prepared and made public, as well. and fish around Yellowknife for arsenic MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. in its various forms? Member for Frame Lake. HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: The quick MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le answer is "yes," and I will explain. We President. Thank you again to the are collaborating with the University of Minister. As people know, I attended the Alberta to study metals in large-bodied Giant Mine Oversight Board's public fish, including arsenic, from several high meeting on May 16th. One of the use and potentially impacted lakes in concerns raised was how information on and around the Yellowknife area. We water and soil arsenic contamination have taken some sampling in March of and any health-related or exposure 2016 on Kam, Grace, Long, and Upper warnings can be shared with tourists Martin Lakes, and it will occur during and visitors. We could do this through May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 25 the Northern Frontier Visitors Centre, kindergarten has added increasing oops, we don't have that anymore. How pressure on our schools here in does the Minister intend to share Yellowknife. In my riding of Kam Lake, arsenic contamination information with Ecole St. Joseph is nearing 95 per cent tourists and visitors? Merci, Mr. capacity. Yellowknife is currently Speaker. assessed on the same level as everyone else, but has very different HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Thank you, needs. Some of the schools have Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, our phantom classrooms, and the entire information reports will be publicly community is assessed as a whole available on our website. Any updates to rather than per district. I would like the the precautionary public health advisory Minister to tell me if he is willing to will be made publicly by Health and review the assessment for Yellowknife Social Services. The office of the Chief schools, and ensure that they are Public Health Officer is examining the treated on an apples-to-apples analysis, recent data for Kam and Grace Lakes, and fairly, based on their needs. Merci. and will be updating the map to reflect more recent data on these lakes. The MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of office of the Chief Public Health Officer Education, Culture and Employment. is able to provide advice to agencies and community governments on HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, possible messaging for residents and Mr. Speaker. Yes, currently we have visitors. department staff that are working with the education authorities and the school For example, ITI worked with the office staff to look at utilization rates, and to of the Chief Public Health Officer to ensure that spaces that were developed develop signs for trail visitors along the when the school was made were Prospector Trail, which is a trail within actually being used for instructional the territorial park that is adjacent to time, and what other spaces aren't for Giant Mine. We are still continuing to instructional time. We are going through have discussions with Canada regarding that review right now with schools in paths forward for an approach to legacy Yellowknife, currently. Thank you, Mr. arsenic in the Yellowknife area, and Speaker. information sharing with residents and visitors will be an element of these MR. TESTART: I am glad that the discussions. Minister is looking into this, but this isn't a new issue. I would like the Minister to MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. commit to a timeline if he can, today, on Member for Kam Lake. when we are going to have a sense of when this needs assessment work has QUESTION 793-18(2): been completed. YELLOWKNIFE SCHOOLS NEEDS ASSESSMENT HON. ALFRED MOSES: Currently there isn't a timeline set in place. Obviously, MR. TESTART: Merci, Monsieur le we have to make sure that we do have President. [English translation not appropriate time to go through the provided]. The Minister of Education is schools, with the staff, and have that well aware that the addition of junior idea of which classrooms are used for May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 26 instructional hours and other classrooms to keep pushing grades onto our school that might be used for storage or other boards, we need to have some flexibility areas of use that were put forth by the here so these schools can meet the school and together, collectively, decide needs of our families and our parents. I which classrooms should be used for will ask again if, in the rollout of the new instructional classrooms, and identify junior kindergarten funding in the fall, that utilization rate. I don't have a when these needs are assessed, will timeline, but I will make sure the there be additional money provided to department comes back with something. the schools to provide for temporary I will share that with the Member. accommodations or retrofits to their facilities in order to accommodate these MR. TESTART: It is difficult to get a extra children? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. clear answer on timelines from this government. Alas, this, with the addition HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, of junior kindergarten, we have 95 per Mr. Speaker. As I had mentioned, we cent capacity reached at St. Joseph are in those discussions with YCS on School. What does the Minister propose how we deal with the situation. At those to do to assist the Yellowknife Catholic rates, we can't commit at that time. school board to manage this capacity Yellowknife, as a whole, has some crunch? schools that have high utilization rates, but we also have schools that aren't HON. ALFRED MOSES: When we look meeting some of those high rates. We at the utilization rates, we look at are trying to find a solution here in utilization rates as they pertain to Yellowknife to accommodate all the communities, so the utilization rate here students as well as staff. in Yellowknife isn't as high as it is by the school. Obviously, we look at school MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. sharing. We are currently in discussions Member for Sahtu. with YCS now, how we deal with that utilization rate and the high numbers QUESTION 794-18(2): that they are getting. We have schools MAXIMIZING BENEFITS OF across NWT that also are at certain INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECTS levels that we need to have those MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. discussions. However, the utilization Speaker. I apologize for fumbling on the rates haven't reached that peak within last sentence of my statement earlier, the Yellowknife schools, but we are in but my questions today are to the discussions with YCS on how we come Minister of Infrastructure. I understand up with solutions for that. the Stanton renewal project is one of the MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. largest P3 projects undertaken by the Member for Kam Lake. GNWT. Can the Minister of Infrastructure tell me how much the MR. TESTART: Merci, Monsieur le project costs are being spent in the President. [English translation not North, and if any northern companies provided.] We have 78 per cent for are involved? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Yellowknife and 95 per cent for this one school. Clearly the Minister can see that MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of there is a problem here. If we are going Infrastructure. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 27

HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Thank labour amounts change. They fluctuate you, Mr. Speaker. The successful up and down on who is on site, but from proponent of this project is committed to everything that has been presented to make every effort to involve local and me, there are roughly between 60 and northern labour and goods and services 130 people that are working on site, in this project, and I am glad to update given the scope of work that is going on, the House here today that within the but there are also a number of people project agreement $70 million has been who work off-site, potentially up to 70 identified for local and northern people around administration, businesses. designers, engineers, quality assurance, those sorts of things, Mr. Speaker. As The numbers that I have got to date, to far as apprenticeships go, we the end of May of this year, we have understand that there are approximately seen over $24 million spent on local and 15 apprentices that are working on site northern companies, and at this time, 11 right now on this present project. We are northern companies are fully engaged in going to work along with ECE and major projects on the Stanton project to NAPEG to get the full scope of that, so I date, with more tenders yet to be can have those numbers readily coming out to finish up the building as it available as well. moves along. The range of work that has been done so far by local and MR. MCNEELY: I am glad to hear that northern businesses is drilling, blasting, number, 15, and if we can encourage water and sewer work, concrete those individuals to complete their production, waterproofing, elevator apprentice and capitalize on their hours services, and such. Thank you, Mr. needed to complete their journeyman Speaker. certification, those would be good targets for the project. My next question MR. MCNEELY: It is good to see that is: where is the project time, and where the project is contributing to economic is the schedule now? growth of our North. I have some questions on the labour side, the trades HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: In progression capitalization on experience discussions with the joint venture on to further the apprentice as mentioned Stanton, the project is on schedule as by the honourable Minister for ECE projected. We expect to service earlier. We have 400 tradespeople that commencement of the facility on are currently working, and I imagine November 30, 2018, and we work very some of them are on this project. Can closely with them on tracking this issue the Minister elaborate a little bit more on very closely going month to month with the training plan included in this project this project moving forward. We believe and how many trades we will see upon the project is about approximately 30 completion? per cent complete right now. HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: We are MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. working with a joint venture to get these Member for Sahtu. exact figures for the Members of the House of how many northern workers, MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. but as work progresses from day to day, Speaker. Seeing that we are at the benchmark of 30 per cent completion May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 28 here, I will have further questions down actually in multi-dwelling buildings the road when we are at 60 per cent. where home ownership might not be as Mahsi. feasible. That is why I have committed to looking at a rent subsidy program, ---Laughter which might work better for people MR. SPEAKER: More of a comment. within market communities, certainly Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife within our capital city. Thank you, Mr. Centre. Speaker. MS. GREEN: Thank you to the Minister. QUESTION 795-18(2): In her general statements, the Minister ELIGIBILITY FOR has asserted that, relying on the shift to HOMEOWNERSHIP PROGRAMS home ownership, the Housing MS. GREEN: Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Corporation is not adding to its housing Speaker, my questions are for the NWT stock. There is still a problem of Housing Corporation. In the past, the availability of housing in Yellowknife. Minister has stressed the belief that There is not enough in any form. Will the home ownership is the way for people to Minister, as a result of her survey, get housed without relying on public consider taking the cap off of the housing and to free up units for those housing inventory and try to get more who need them. Yet, with only 20 resources to build additional homes or Yellowknife families taking up the offer apartments? of assisted home ownership in the last HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: We are 10 years, this faith seems to be a little working diligently with the federal misplaced. Will the Minister now re- government as well, and CMHC has examine the home ownership program made an agreement to put a hold on the and find out how to increase the declining funding just for this year, but uptake? Mahsi. they have still stated that in 2038, those MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister operating and maintenance monies will responsible for the NWT Housing be gone. With that in effect, we have to Corporation. look at ways that we can actually support our residents in the Northwest HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank Territories in meeting their housing you, Mr. Speaker. When I speak broadly needs. that home ownership, in my belief, is a way for people to take more pride in At this point, I am not looking at their belongings and it is a goal that increasing our public housing units, but I most people achieve towards from when do believe that the Rent Supplement we leave our parents' house, I seriously Program for the City of Yellowknife believe that. However, I also recognize would address that need. For example, that one size does not fit all, and so we if I build one house in Yellowknife and it have to look at each community costs me $500,000; if I give people $500 separately. Within the smaller a month, $6,000 a year, towards a rent communities, it may be a better supplement program, I can support possibility. Within the capital city, the hundreds of families versus one family majority of our public housing units are in the same amount of money. Those May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 29 are the areas that we are looking at. formula, because we do support our How do we make our resources go other territories; however, Nunavut has further versus expanding things that we double of the amount of needs for have not figured out how to pay for yet. housing and got eight times the funding. We are asking for an explanation for MS. GREEN: Given that answer, then, why we got short-changed within that is the Minister willing to provide a rent funding, and also to advocate that we supplement for additional units, since can access more housing monies as it those units need not be owned; they comes out, because a lot of the money could be rented, to increase the for Indigenous people is only on availability of housing? reserve, and we do not qualify for that HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: The funding. We are having a face-to-face Rent Supplement Program will be meeting Monday to discuss all of the exactly that. It will not be supplementing issues with the Northwest Territories units that we already own within the and our feeling of needing more support Northwest Territories Housing from the federal government. Corporation. They will be supplementing MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. market rental units so that we can reach Member for Hay River North. more lower-income families and individuals within our market QUESTION 796-18(2): communities. FUNDING FOR FAMILY MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. VIOLENCE SHELTERS Member for Yellowknife Centre. MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaker. I have questions for the That is good news from the Minister. I Minister of Health and Social Services. finally want to talk about the federal Over the course of this Assembly, it has budget in March. Ottawa announced a come up quite often that the family transfer of $36 million to the NWT over violence shelters in the Northwest 10 years to provide for more housing. Territories are not funded by any sort of That compares to $240 million over 10 funding formula, which leads to years in Nunavut. Why did we end up disparities, leaving some shelters more with the short end of the stick from in need than others. Ottawa on housing? Thank you. When I spoke to the Minister about this HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank before, during the business planning you, Mr. Speaker. I am as confused as and during the budget session, he the Member in trying to understand why stated that he was going to work with we got short-changed in the northern the shelters, develop a funding formula, housing strategy, and so I am actually and that work would probably be done in flying down to Ottawa this Sunday to August 2017. We are about 60 days meet with the Minister responsible for away from August. I would like an the CMHC, Mr. Duclos. Mr. Duclos, right update from the Minister to find out what after the budget was released, did give work has been done on developing a me a call the next day and promised me funding formula for the family violence that he would provide me a funding shelters. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 30

MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of being engaged now in this preliminary Health and Social Services. work? HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Thank you, HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: In order to Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I and my have an informed discussion, we need colleagues recognize that the current to actually understand where we are. funding structure for the shelters has led We have done some preliminary work to to some challenges and some determine where we stand, where the inconsistencies. Last year, I did direct shelters stand, and we have been the Department of Health and Social working with the chair of the shelter Services to examine and work with the network who represents all of the shelters to identify some of these shelters across the Northwest immediate pressures. As a result of this Territories. We have done this by e-mail work, we were fortunate to receive correspondence, but also in face-to-face $120,000 in new funding to offset the meetings. increased operating costs of family violence shelters across the Northwest As part of that work, the department has Territories. begun work on a bit of a zero-based budget exercise as our first step to When I met with the shelter network in determine the funding requirements, as 2016, I also committed to exploring the well as the best and most equitable potential for a more equitable funding funding model for family violence. We formula. At that time, I indicated, give us need to have some information in hand a little bit of patience, work with us. We in order to have informed discussions. will be in a better position to start We are working towards that, and we discussions in August 2017. That has will have more fulsome or more not occurred yet. We have had some complete discussions around a funding initial work done. We have been working formula starting in August at the earliest. on some preliminary information with the shelter leads, but we have not begun MR. SIMPSON: I have also been the negotiations around a funding working with the chair of the shelter formula yet, and we will not be getting network to try to get the department that until August at the earliest. Thank more engaged with the shelter network. you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister says they are trying to determine the requirements for the MR. SIMPSON: I am aware that there shelters. Just getting the dry numbers have been some talks, you could call for the shelters is not determining the them, with the shelter network and the requirements. It is determining how individual shelters. There have been much money they are spending, which calls from the department saying, "How they already know because that is how much do you spend on staff?" or much money they are getting. The questions like that. The department is Minister has already made his point doing something. I am not sure what this clear that he is not going to engage with preliminary work is, but if the these individuals until August. When can department is trying to figure out what we expect this funding formula to be the needs are, why are the shelters not complete and rolling out? How about that? May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 31

HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: When I met MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Minister of with the individuals in 2016, I indicated Municipal and Community Affairs. to them clearly that we intend to move forward, we intend to work with them HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank collaboratively, but we need a bit of you, Mr. Speaker. The availability of the time. We have just rolled out a single training online is one method of authority in the Northwest Territories, reaching people to access their training and I indicated at that time we will be in needs. The reality is that online training a better position to begin formal does not work for all residents in the discussions in August 2017. I live up to Northwest Territories. We also want to that commitment. We are living up to make sure that we can also provide that commitment. In the interim, we face-to-face training and community have worked with the chair. We have group-based training as required, so gathered information to help us present that we meet all of the different learning some information when we do meet with styles that people have. Thank you, Mr. them. I do not think the Member is Speaker. interpreting what I have said correctly. MR. THOMPSON: That kind of leads We are working with them, we are into my second question with limited gathering data, and we will have access and the ability of councillors to informed discussion and dialogue with actually access the internet program in them starting at the earliest in August. order to take this training. In regards to As far as when we come up with a the face-to-face training, are we going to funding formula, it really depends how actually bring the MACA staff into the those negotiations and discussions go. I communities, or is it going to be like the would hate to presuppose a solution School of Community Government's without having those discussions. other courses, where they hold a MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. regional one and people have to come Member for Nahendeh. in there? HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: At this QUESTION 797-18(2): point, we are just negotiating with the DESIGNATED AUTHORITY federal government to see if they will COUNCIL TRAINING provide funding for the delivery of this MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. support, so it is a little bit premature to Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today, the report on what exactly this delivery Minister of Municipal and Community would look like. Once we have the Affairs did a Minister's statement on information and a partnership, then we designated authority council training. It can look at how we deliver it. is very exciting, and I am happy to hear MR. THOMPSON: I thank the Minister this. I guess my first question for the for her answer. I am pretty disappointed Minister is additional funding to support that we do not have a plan in place. We delivery. If this delivery is going to be have built the program, done a pilot done by the internet, what additional project, and now we still do not know if costs are we looking at for this delivery we will be able to implement it right of the program? Thank you, Mr. away besides the internet access. In Speaker. regards to the courses that were May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 32 developed, what is the difference descriptions, a band manager is the between the courses that they provide same thing as an SAO. What is the to other organizations? I am looking at difference between these job the list, and this is the same thing that descriptions? Are they similar? Are we you go to councils with before, so what utilizing existing resources to modify are the differences that is going to make these resources that they are going to this unique to designated authorities that provide to the designated authorities? happen to normal hamlets, towns, Thank you, Mr. Speaker. facilities, and villages? HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: They you, Mr. Speaker. Respectfully, a lot of are a little bit different from the the bands and designated authorities municipal government courses that we actually do provide municipal services. provide through the School of Not all of them do. We do have 33 Community Governments. There are communities within the Northwest two types of community governments. Territories. However, municipal They are governed by different governments are different, as stated legislation, they have different before. Although job descriptions will authorities, and the reporting have similarities, municipal governments arrangements, as well, are different to are not responsible for promoting the deliver their programs and services. language or the culture within their communities, and so job descriptions Bands generally perform services in the will have to be changed. They also are areas of governance, culture, language, not responsible for some of the health membership services, and areas in and social services and the justice health, social services, and justice. supports that designated authorities get Municipal governments, on the other access to. There will be similarities, but hand, generally perform services in there will also be differences within the water distribution, waste collection, road job descriptions. maintenance, capital infrastructure, land use planning, and recreation. Although MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. sometimes the bands do municipal-like Member for Mackenzie Delta. services, they also have a distinct difference in their services and supports QUESTION 798-18(2): that they provide to the residents in their HIGH COST OF PARTICIPATION communities. AT YOUTH SPORT DEVELOPMENT CAMPS MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Member for Nahendeh. MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, in follow-up to my Member's statement, I MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, and I have a few questions for the Minister of thank the Minister for her answer. Four MACA. I would like to ask the Minister: of my communities are designated what role does the department play in authorities, and four of these determining the location of sport communities actually provide all of the development camps and other tryout municipal services. Again, when we are locations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. talking about this, this is a concern for me. Again, when we look at job May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 33

MR. SPEAKER: Minister of Municipal address accessibility, and the and Community Affairs. Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is willing to provide HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank the information to any families that need you, Mr. Speaker. The Department of support in not knowing where to get the Municipal and Community Affairs applications for these supports provided. actually supports the various sports organizations throughout the Northwest MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. Territories to provide services to the Member for Mackenzie Delta. residents. The territorial sports organizations themselves decide where MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the selection of camps will be. Thank Mr. Speaker, my last but most important you, Mr. Speaker. question is: how will the Minister act to improve the accessibility of these MR. BLAKE: Does the Minister know events, for instance, ensuring that some how many of these events have been are held in the Beaufort Delta region? held in Yellowknife in the past four years Thank you, Mr. Speaker. compared to other communities throughout the territory? HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Municipal and HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Due to Community Affairs recently met with the our working relationship, our five sports and recreation associations, partnerships with the five sports and and I may be incorrect, but I believe it recreational associations throughout the was around about a month ago. We are Northwest Territories, the Department of in the process just currently of Municipal and Community Affairs does identifying all of the gaps, overlaps, and not currently track the information on the areas of need, so I will commit to location of the selected camps. As so, bringing forward the need to look at we do not have that information, what providing events, not only in the capital specifically is provided in Yellowknife as cities or the market communities, but in to other communities. smaller communities. I will bring that to the table as an identified gap. Thank MR. BLAKE: What programs for youth you, Mr. Speaker. under sport and recreation currently exist to help youth athletes from remote MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. communities access tryout and sport Member for Kam Lake. development opportunities outside of their home communities? QUESTION 799-18(2): TERRITORIAL CANNABIS HON. CAROLINE COCHRANE: Sport LEGISLATION AND North right now has the Kids Sport REGULATION program, and they provide support to families that have a demonstrated MR. TESTART: Merci, Monsieur le economic need, so lower income President. [English translation not families can apply for that to access provided.] It is just as clear that the sports and recreation facilities. We also presence of a cannabis working group have the two regional recreation means the government knew the associations that will take applications to regulations would be needed. I ask May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 34 today if the Minister could provide the Liberal party platform announcement? terms of reference of the cannabis There might have been crib from that working group, including the date the platform, but I will leave to the Minister working group was established? Thank to answer. How many times has the you, Mr. Speaker. working group met? These are well established principles behind this. I'm MR. SPEAKER: Minister of Justice. wondering if they have done anything HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, Mr. else. How many times have they met? Speaker, the working group has been HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I don't have working on a series of principles, and those exact figures before me. I believe these will be taken out on the road for they did meet a large number of times, public consultation in the regional and I will attempt to obtain those figures centres, and also at least several of the and provide them to the Member smaller communities. There are certain opposite. principles that we are acting upon, as follows: restricting youth access to MR. TESTART: I guess what I am cannabis and the protection of young getting at, Mr. Speaker, is that beyond people from promotion and enticements those principles, there are a number of to use cannabis; legislation to allow extremely technical issues. I will ask the adults to possess and access regulated Minister this: what is the department's quality controlled legal cannabis; to approach to communities that wish to discourage drug impaired driving; to prohibit the sale and use of marijuana protect workers and the public from drug products in their communities? How has impairment in the workplace; to protect the working group addressed that issue, public health by controlling the public and have they made any smoking of cannabis; to enhance public recommendations to the Minister? awareness of the health risks associated with cannabis; to provide a HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Certainly, Mr. safe and secure retail regime for the Speaker, this is a complex issue. Of adult purchase of cannabis and provide course, the federal government deals for local options; to establish cannabis with criminal law, and marijuana will be distribution and consumption restrictions decriminalized July 1, 2018. We will be and prohibition. As I have mentioned, soliciting advice, as I mentioned, from we will be seeking the advice and the various communities. There are information of the public. There will be communities that are self-governing, public engagement sessions during the and it is going to be very interesting to summer in the regional centres and also hear their input which we are seeking in several small communities. Thank and will reflect, likely in our legislation, you, Mr. Speaker. as it may be, that certain self-governing bodies, local laws, may actually override MR. TESTART: [English translation not our own. These are important issues. provided.] He has laid out clearly what We will be discussing those with the the group has produced to date. How various communities and governments. long did it take them to come up with these principles, principles which have MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. basically been around since the 2015 Member for Kam Lake. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 35

MR. TESTART: Merci, Monsieur le 8. Tabling of Documents President. What I hear from the Minister is he has not yet taken a position on TABLED DOCUMENT 383-18(2): that, and I think it is important we get out SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES to the communities. Those discussions (INFRASTRUCTURE have to be carefully crafted so we get EXPENDITURES), NO. 2, 2017- good results, and the question we put to 2018 our citizens is clear. Apart from those principles, does the Minister have a set TABLED DOCUMENT 384-18(2): of discussion paper around this that he SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES can share with Honourable Members on (OPERATIONS EXPENDITURES), this side of the House that makes it NO. 2, 2017-2018 clear what those questions are going to HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Thank you, be that we put to our residents around Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I wish to the important subject of cannabis table regulation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the following two documents entitled HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Speaker, "Supplementary Estimates we are going out to the communities (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, and seeking their engagements. We 2017-2018" and "Supplementary really want to hear from them. We do Estimates (Operations Expenditures), not have any preconceptions as to how No. 2, 2017-2018." Thank you, Mr. this legislation should be crafted. We Speaker. are hoping to hear from various MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of interested parties, in particular those documents. Minister of Education, small communities where this issue is Culture and Employment. certainly to be of great concern. TABLED DOCUMENT 385-18(2): MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Oral questions. NWT APPRENTICESHIP, Item 8, written questions. Item 9, returns TRADES AND OCCUPATIONAL to written questions. Item 10, replies to CERTIFICATION STRATEGY Commissioner's opening address. Item 2017-2022 11, petitions. Item 12, reports of standing and special committees. Item HON. ALFRED MOSES: Mr. Speaker, I 13, reports of committees on the review wish to table the following document of bills. Item 14, tabling of documents. entitled "NWT Apprenticeship, Trades Minister of Finance. and Occupational Certification Strategy, 2017-2022." Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of documents. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 36

TABLED DOCUMENT 386-18(2): TABLED DOCUMENT 388-18(2): ANNUAL REPORT 2016-2017 TIMELINE OF CANNABIS- NWT OFFICE OF THE RELATED ISSUES IN CANADA REGULATOR OF OIL AND GAS FROM 2015 TO 2017 OPERATIONS MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. HON. WALLY SCHUMANN: Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following table the following two-page document document entitled "Annual Report 2016- entitled "Timeline of Cannabis-Related 2017 NWT Office of the Regulator of Oil Issues in Canada from 2015 to 2017." and Gas Operations." Thank you, Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. documents. Member for Hay River Member for Yellowknife Centre. North. 9. Notices of Motion TABLED DOCUMENT 387-18(2): 2017 SPRING REPORTS OF THE MOTION 34-18(2): AUDITOR GENERAL OF EXTENDED ADJOURNMENT OF CANADA TO THE PARLIAMENT THE HOUSE TO SEPTEMBER OF CANADA - INDEPENDENT 19, 2017 AUDIT REPORT: REPORT OF MS. GREEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice THE AUDITOR GENERAL OF that on Friday, June 2, 2017, I will move CANADA TO THE BOARD OF the following motion: I move, seconded DIRECTORS OF THE by the honourable Member for Great FRESHWATER FISH Slave, that, notwithstanding Rule 4, MARKETING CORPORATION - when this House adjourns on June 2, SPECIAL EXAMINATION - 2017 2017, it shall be adjourned until MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Tuesday, September 19, 2017; and Mr. Speaker. I would like to table the further, that at any time prior to document entitled "2017 Spring Reports September 19, 2017, if the Speaker is of the Auditor General of Canada to the satisfied, after consultation with the Parliament of Canada - Independent Executive Council and Members of the Audit Report: Report of the Auditor Legislative Assembly, that the public General of Canada to the Board of interest requires that the House should Directors of the Freshwater Fish meet at an earlier time during the Marketing Corporation - Special adjournment, the Speaker may give Examination - 2017." Thank you, Mr. notice and thereupon the House shall Speaker. meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has MR. SPEAKER: Tabling of documents. been duly adjourned to that time. Thank Member for Kam Lake. you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Notices of motion. Item 18, notice of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 37

18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second bill last night, and I do have some reading of bills. Minister of Environment concerns. and Natural Resources. First off, the department, and I want to 10. Second Reading of Bills commend them for this, they did go through an extensive public consultation BILL 27: around what was called the Northwest AN ACT TO AMEND THE Territories Air Regulatory Framework ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION last summer. I submitted comments as ACT an individual. One of those sets of comments was around whether the HON. ROBERT MCLEOD: Thank you, issuing of air permits is something that Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I move, might be handled by the land and water seconded by the honourable Member boards, who already have a well- for Hay River South, that Bill 27, An Act established system of doing so that to Amend the Environmental Protection allows for quality public engagement Act, be read for the second time. This opportunities. bill makes several amendments to the Environmental Protection Act. It The department did summarize some of removes the non-application provision; the comments that they received back in authorizes the Minister to establish and March of this year. They put out a "What make publicly available a register We Heard" document, but it was never respecting environmental contaminants; really clear what the next steps were, authorizes the Minister to determine that and, all of a sudden, here we have a bill discharges are nuisances; authorizes that is landed before us. I will be the last the Minister to exempt persons from one to try to slow this down, but I think complying with the act or the there is a gap here between what the regulations; creates a new exception to department heard and then this step the prohibition against releasing that is taken, without really indicating contaminants for discharges authorized what kind of an approach the under other legislation and provides that department is really taking on this. I the exception to the prohibition does not think there may be a department from apply to nuisance discharges; requires the original approach that was laid out in persons intending to discharge the air quality framework of a year ago, environmental contaminants to register and I would recommend to the Minister with the Minister, obtain a licence or that he provide an update that could permit, and provide the prescribed perhaps be put on the website to let information; and broadens the people know what the current approach regulation-making powers. Thank you, is. Mr. Speaker. One matter that I am concerned about in MR. SPEAKER: Masi. The motion is in the bill is the ability of the Minister to order. To the principle of the bill. exempt persons or classes of persons Member for Frame Lake. from the act or the regulations. I think that raises some issues around what MR. O'REILLY: Merci, Monsieur le kind of terms and conditions should be President. I know the Minister is anxious placed on that and what will motivate a to get on, but I had a closer look at this May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 38

Minister perhaps to exempt persons or before the House, with the Member for classes of persons from the application Hay River North in the chair. of the act and the regulations, so I do have some general concerns with the 11. Consideration in Committee of the principles of this bill, Mr. Speaker. I Whole of Bills and Other Matters would urge the Minister to certainly inform the public about what is going on CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): I now and how the Northwest Territories air call Committee of the Whole to order. quality Framework may have been What is the wish of committee? modified or the approach that was Mr. Testart. suggested there may have been changed or modified in some way with MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. this bill. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Speaker. Committee would like to consider Minister's Statement 186-18(2); MR. SPEAKER: Masi. To the principle Bill 16: An Act to Amend the Education of the bill. Act; Committee Report 10-18(2): Report SOME HON. MEMBERS: Question. on the Review of Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Education Act, in that order. MR. SPEAKER: Question has been Thank you, Mr. Chair. called. The motion is carried. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank ---Carried you, Mr. Testart. Does committee agree? Bill 27 has had its second reading and is now referred to a committee. Second SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank other matters: Bill 15, An Act to Amend you, committee. First, a short break. the Tobacco Tax Act; Bill 16, An Act to ---SHORT RECESS Amend the Education Act; Bill 26, An Act to Amend the Revolving Funds Act, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): I now No. 2; Committee Report 10-18(2), call Committee of the Whole back to Standing Committee on Social order. Committee, we have first agreed Development Report on the Review of to consider Minister's Statement Bill 16: An Act to Amend the Education 18618(2), Update on the A New Day Act Response to Report within 120 program. Minister, do you have Days; Minister's Statement 186-18(2); witnesses you wish to bring into the Tabled Document 383-18(2), Chamber? Supplementary Estimates (Operations HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I do. Expenditures), No. 2, 2017-2018; Tabled Document 384-18(2), CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure you, Minister Sebert. SergeantatArms, Expenditures), No. 2, 2017-2018. With please escort the witnesses into the the authority given to me as Speaker by Chamber. Minister, please introduce Motion 18-18(2), I hereby authorize the your witnesses to the House. House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 39

HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes. Thank MS. GREEN: Oh, I thought this was a you, Mr. Chair. To my left is Leanne time for general comments. Okay. Very Gardiner, director of community justice good, then. My first question is: what are and policing. To my right is Deputy the qualifications of the "qualified Minister of Justice Martin Goldney. counsellors" who are providing this program? Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Minister. I will open the floor to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank general comments. Do I have general you, Ms. Green. Minister. comments on this tabled document? Ms. Green. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Perhaps Ms. Gardiner could assist with that. MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I will have a number of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank questions for the Minister about this new you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. contracting relationship based on the MS. GARDINER: Thank you. What we fact that this is a non-profit organization asked for in the RFP and what we will that has not been a service provider of continue to require from our contractor this kind in the past, and so I will have is counsellors with a counselling degree questions that relate to the qualifications and several years' experience or of this service provider to provide the A equivalent, and that is what we will New Day program. require our contractor to provide, as I am also interested in finding out well, to contract with counsellors who whether there have been changes to the are qualified to deliver this program, RFP that was put out earlier and what same as the program has done in the those changes might be. I will also have past. some questions about attracting clients CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank who are not offenders to the program. you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. O'Reilly. Of course, John Howard is related services for offenders, and so, those MR. O'REILLY: Have you finished, Ms. people who are not offenders and who Green? are using the A New Day program, I do MS. GREEN: No. wonder if they will feel the stigma of using the program in that location. MR. O'REILLY: You should keep going. Finally, we know that there was a very CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Ms. rigorous evaluation of the initial Green. program, but I have not heard very much about how the successor program MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Do will be monitored and evaluated. That you understand from this, then, that the will be the gist of my questions when the John Howard Society is not providing time comes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. the counselling itself but rather subcontracting the counselling, and, if CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank subcontracting, then to whom? Thank you, Ms. Green. The time is now if you you. would like to start asking those questions of the Minister. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 40

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank anticipated that proponents might come you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. back with some potential options, always recognizing, of course, that it HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, that's would have to be within the bounds of correct. The John Howard Society is in what we were looking for. I am happy to the process of contracting with report that is where we ended up with counsellors. Thank you. the John Howard Society, so there CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank hasn't been anything that I would you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green. describe as a change to the request for proposals. MS. GREEN: Thank you. Do I understand that the John Howard CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank Society will require the same you, Mr. Goldney. Ms. Green. qualifications of counsellors as in the MS. GREEN: Thank you. Could the original RFP? Thank you. Minister please outline, then, the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank program that will be undertaken by the you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. John Howard Society? Is it the one that he most recently discussed with us, HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, that's which is basically a group counselling correct. Thank you, Mr. Chair. program? Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green. you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. MS. GREEN: Thank you. The next HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I understand question concerns the RFP that was let that it's the same. Thank you, Mr. Chair. during the winter and received no takers. I understand there have been CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank some negotiations to get to this point, so you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green. could the Minister tell us what changes MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Is it have been made to the RFP in order to the Minister's intention to make the secure the agreement announced proposal in this case available to the today? Thank you. standing committee and/or public? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank Thank you. you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I understand you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. there were not changes to the RFP, but HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, perhaps Mr. Goldney could expand on Mr. Chair. We will have to examine the my answer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. procurement guidelines to determine CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank whether we are able to do that. Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Goldney. you, Mr. Chair. MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank Recalling that what was offered was a you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green. request for proposals, it was always May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 41

MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Other than that, we will have a structure May I take that as a commitment that in place in terms of reporting on the Minister will undertake that statistics for the program. Part of the examination? Thank you. changes we made was in the administration of the program, and we CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank recognized a need for additional you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. information, and about participants' HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I will undertake progress through the program, and that that examination. will be part of our evaluation outcomes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Green. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Ms. Gardiner. Recognizing the MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My time, I will allow one more question. Ms. next question is about the evaluation Green. and monitoring process for this contract. Could the Minister please describe how MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. My this program will be monitored and how follow-up question is whether the it will be evaluated or not this program Minister will be able to share that but the revamped program delivered by evaluation criteria, and at what point the this contractor? Thank you. program will be evaluated using it? Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Ms. Green. Minister Sebert. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wonder if I could defer that HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. question to Ms. Gardiner. Thank you. Chair. I think I could be prepared to share that criteria. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Gardiner. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Currently, there is a logic model that MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair, and was already developed for the pilot I want to thank my colleague who asked project. We are currently evaluating that some of the questions that I had here, based on our experiences and our but I just want to understand how this lessons learned from the previous agreement was reached. This was the evaluation to make sure that the Department of Justice approaching John outcomes that we are measuring are Howard directly. Is that how? Again, appropriate and reflect what we have thanks, Mr. Chair. learned during the pilot. That logic CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank model isn't complete as of yet, but we you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert. are expecting in the next few weeks to have that with the benefit of some HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, after there expertise in program evaluation, and were no responses, positive responses when we have a formal plan for when to the RFP, we did approach certain that evaluation will be, we can provide it. NGOs, and amongst those was the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 42

John Howard Society. Thank you, Mr. that are confidential or proprietary, so Chair. that's my answer. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. The MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Minister's statement refers to an When does the Minister think he will be agreement with the John Howard able to get back to the Regular MLAs on Society. Is this like a letter of intent, or the availability on the contract being has an actual contract been signed? shared with us? Thanks, Mr. Chair. What's the status of this arrangement? Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert? HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think I could commit to give the HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Members a response by the end of next Chair. An actual contract has been week. entered into. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I am guess I would hope for something a little not sure if my colleague from bit quicker, but I will take the Minister's Yellowknife Centre asked this question word. Can the Minister tell us how long or not, but can we actually get a copy of this contract runs for? Thank you, Mr. the contract that has been signed, then, Chair. even if it has to be provided on a confidential basis to the Regular MLAs? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank I would like to be able to compare that you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert. against what was called for in the RFP, HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. and what the original New Day program Chair. I can advise that the contract runs was doing. Can he provide a copy of until March 31, 2021. Thank you, Mr. that contract on a confidential basis to Chair. the Regular MLAs? Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, to the MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. contract? Well, that is a lot longer than I would have expected to hear. Can the Minister HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you. I tell us: is there any sort of probationary think I will need to speak to the period or ability for the department to procurement office before I make any back out of this arrangement? Indeed, obligations in that regard. I, myself, have the contractor, if things are not going the not seen the contract. I'm not certain way either party expected, is there an whether there are certain elements in it escape clause in the contract, and when May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 43 would it be triggered, or could it be actually reissuing the RFP for a longer triggered? Thanks, Mr. Chair. period of time, or making other changes to the RFP rather than to enter into CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank some sort of a negotiated arrangement? you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, Thanks, Mr. Chair. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank Chair. I am not aware of any escape you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, clause. One of the things that NGOs generally want is a long period of the HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes. Of course, contract in length to last for a significant with the RFP, we were always aware of amount of time so they can have constraints on time that we needed to certainty in their plans going forward. Of have something in place by July 1st. course, contracts can be amended if There initially was, of course, no both sides agree at any time, but I am applicants to our RFP. We then went out not aware of any "out" clause but again, to NGOs. We are speaking to the John I have not seen the contract myself. Howard Society, and it was their wish Thank you, Mr. Chair. should they decide to take this up, which they did, that they be given a lengthy CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank contract so that they would have some you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. certainty for the future. Thank you, Mr. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes Chair. I guess I will go on record as having CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank expressing some concern about this. As you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. I understand, the RFP was for a one- year term, and now this is, I guess for MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. four years. That is a significant Again, I will express some concern here departure from what the RFP had called that the Regular MLAs, we actually for. Does anybody have any explanation asked for the program to be reinstated of how we went from a one-year to a for a full year, and the most the Minister four-year arrangement? Thanks, Mr. would commit to was six months; and Chair. then, all of a sudden, it jumps from a one-year RFP to a four-year contract. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank That's a very significant change in you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, course, so I will just leave it at that for HON. LOUIS SEBERT: As I mentioned now. The reason why I am going to ask earlier, NGOs such as the John Howard this next question is, I understand, I Society generally want the stability of a have worked for NGOs. All of them sort long-term contract, so that's why this of go through ups and downs over the period of time was agreed upon. Thank years, but there have been some recent you, Mr. Chair. changes at the John Howard Society in terms of their leadership that might raise CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank some issues around their capacity to you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. deliver on a program like this. How can MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Did the Minister provide some reassurance the department look at the option of that the minimum qualifications for this organization, or the ability to deliver on May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 44 this, any minimum qualifications have Minister's staff let us know whether the been met, and that this organization John Howard Society has ever delivered actually has the capacity to deliver this a program like this in the past? Thank very important program? Thank you. you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert, you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, Mr. Chair. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Perhaps I could I certainly concur with Mr. O'Reilly's have Ms. Gardiner answer that observations that this is a very important question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. contract, which it is, and there are certainly terms in the contract which the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank John Howard Society must adhere to, you, Minister Sebert. Ms. Gardiner. failing which they would be in breach of MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. the contract. Now, the John Howard The John Howard Society is responsible Society, I see some notes here, has for the administration of the contract. been around for 150 years; not perhaps, They will have subcontracts with delivering this exact type of program, qualified counsellors whom we are but somewhat related program, so we working with in partnership with them. do have some confidence in their ability They are close to having those contracts to deliver, and should they fail to do so, in place. The staff member at the John they would be in breach of the contract. Howard Society is not responsible for Thank you. the actual delivery of the program. As CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank we mentioned, qualified counsellors are you, Minister Sebert. Mr. O'Reilly. required, the same as we required in the RFP process. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. John Howard may have been around for 150 CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank years, but how long have they been you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Simpson. here in the Northwest Territories or, MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair, indeed, in Yellowknife? Thanks, Mr. and I thank my colleagues for proposing Chair. the questions. Every time this is brought CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank up in the House, the Minister states that you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Sebert. minor changes were made to this program based on the evaluation report HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I see from my that was done. Right near the beginning notes here that they have been around of this report, it recommends that since 1994 in the Northwest Territories. consideration should be given to the fact Thank you, Mr. Chair. that the program is more than a curriculum, and community outreach CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank should be considered a part of any you, Minister Sebert. Recognizing the future program. The community time, I will allow one more. Mr. O'Reilly. outreach that has been happening at MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair, and The Tree of Peace includes workshops I do appreciate the time. Can the at the North Slave Correctional Centre, I May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 45 believe the only program available to Most of the organizations I just those in remand. It has happened in mentioned sent a letter to the Minister adult education centres, with the on May 10th stating essentially that they YKDFN, the Salvation Army, the Bailey have no faith that the program the way House, and more. In addition, there the department envisions it is going to have been training sessions delivered to be successful. They write, "It remains nurses in the Stanton Psychiatric Unit the position of the coalition that a which the nurses seem to find quite successful program must be a useful. community-based therapy program. The work with men who abuse must be However, as I understand it, the RFP ongoing while healing and treatment states that program facilitators must options that are designed to be flexible strictly adhere to the curriculum as set enough to address the actual needs of out by the department, which excludes those who seek help from this program. all of this community outreach. The As such, the new program design as evaluation report also states that some described in the recently advertised men are not well-suited for group RFP was met with a degree of surprise counselling sessions, and future by members of the coalition. The new programs should include provisions for program design has some aspects that individual counselling based on A New appear to us to be incompatible with Day's curriculum. Yet, as I understand it, program success and with continued in the new RFP, men who are not well- widespread community support." suited will be referred to outside counselling services, in stark contrast to I ask the Minister: why was the coalition this recommendation. The one engaged in the first place if now their recommendation that I did find that was input is being disregarded? They are followed was to break the program up begging the department to, well, I will into segments so that if you drop out not say "begging." They would like the partway through, you can get right back department to work with them to retool in without having to wait the 20 weeks. this program into something that they think would be successful. How do they The evaluation also stated that many of know what is going to be successful? the individuals that they interviewed Well, they work with these people every would not change the program the way day. They developed the first program. it operated. Yet, we have a letter from They are the people on the ground. It the Coalition Against Family Violence still boggles my mind that they are being which spent years developing the A completely ignored and left out of this New Day program tailored for the North, process. It has been front page news and this organization was made up of, that all the coalition members refused to the Government of the NWT was a part bid on this RFP, because they felt so of it, Disabilities Council, Status of strongly that it was such a poor Women Council, Tree of Peace, program. These are people who are Yellowknife Women's Society, White dedicated to helping end family Ribbon Campaign, Alternatives North, violence, and yet they were not willing to Salvation Army, and the RCMP. put their name behind a program that the department says is going to do that. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 46

I do not want to use unparliamentary issues. It is not a one size fits all language, but there is some arrogance solution. from the department on this, I find, and I am at loss. Why will the department not I think what we hear our partners saying work with these people who have years, is they are looking for additional decades, hundreds of years between supports and additional avenues to them, of experience in this field? Maybe address all aspects of family violence, I will start there with questions. Why did and we agree. We are happy to work the department flat out refuse to work with any community partner with a with the coalition or coalition members proposal that could be complimentary to come up with a program design that and that could tackle some of these would be palatable, at the very least, to related issues perhaps in another way, the coalition? Thank you, Mr. Chair. perhaps for a different segment of the population with a different risk profile. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank But when we talk about A New Day, you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Sebert. when the department talks about A New Day, it is talking about that very specific HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you. I am curriculum and very specific program, going to refer that question, if I may, to and our challenge was really to do the Martin Goldney, my deputy minister. best we can with that program and the Thank you. resources that we have available. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank I would suggest we did not make any you, Minister Sebert. Mr. Goldney. significant changes apart from focusing MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair, the administration to make sure that we and there is a lot to unpack there. I am get the best results possible, and we did going to do my best, but I certainly look at the evaluation very carefully. We would welcome follow-up questions as are also informed by our experience well. First, I think I have to challenge the delivering the program and looked at notion that the department was unwilling what needed to be improved. Clearly, to work with the coalition. I think we are we recognize that outreach is one very appreciative of our community component, but if you look at the partners, but I think there might be a bit number of men who were made aware of a disconnect. We do commend our of the program, very few actually community partners for their enrolled in the program and made the commitment to addressing this issue, commitment to do the work required. but I think where there might be a bit of We think, frankly, there are better ways a disconnect is in the department's to connect men with the services that recognition that this is not a program they need. That tells us that a very small that will fix all family violence issues or number of the men who were made even is appropriate for all offenders and aware of the program felt it was the men who use violence in their intimate appropriate program for them or maybe relationships. It is a program that is very they were not ready at that time. The specific, is designed for men of a certain new program designed does offer the risk profile, and cannot be the solution to opportunity in that structured all of our family violence programs or assessment phase to connect people May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 47 with different supports, and we hope this program has not been affected. My that leads to improved outcomes. understanding, with the previous speaker recalling Mr. Simpson, stated Certainly, one of the biggest changes very clearly that vision that the groups was that modularity, that flexibility to had in terms of coming together, in recognize that we need to deliver it in a terms of trying to address the very big more flexible model, so we did focus on issue of family violence in NWT. The that change. As I mentioned, we are program that was conceived, developed, very willing to work with community and established was operating partners. I think there has been some ineffectively and unsuccessfully, from disappointment expressed that the my understanding. department didn't go to the coalition to discuss the changes. I think it has to be The recent meetings with some of the appreciated, at the balance, the need for people who work on the front lines, I and the potential benefit for further was very disappointed that the program input, with the reality that we had a had tanked and, in a sense, it is pretty clear understanding of what demoralizing that perhaps the initial changes needed to be made. Again, we vision of the program has dramatically are not saying this is the program that is changed. I understand the sense for going to fix everything. We do recognize keeping programs and funding that there are going to be continued resources in the stream of being conversations required, but we also had uncomfortable, but it shouldn't be to balance the need to have a fair systemized so much where it becomes procurement process, as well. It very stringent. It discourages people wouldn't have been appropriate for us to from taking a step to seeking help. talk about things that would show up in an RFP, which is a select group of From my understanding, that is what it organizations recognizing that that might was and that is what it came to be. After create some unfairness to other its assessment evaluations, there are potential proponents who aren't some recommendations and changes members of that organization. I think it is that were implemented. It went to RFP, also fair to note that not every member and a lot of the groups that could have of the coalition supported that letter. perhaps put their name forward were Thank you, Mr. Chair. discouraged. I was deeply disappointed to see, perhaps, just the diminishing of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank the program when it was first originally you, Mr. Goldney. The time allowed is started. What I am seeking from the up. I will move Mr. Simpson further Minister is if he could explain this down. We only had one question, one question that was asked. I want to answer during that time period. We will understand and seek some move on to the next. Mr. Nadli. reassurances that the original vision of A New Day, with input from, as an MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. example, the Coalition of Family Chair, I just wanted to take an Violence. A lot of the NGO organizations opportunity to seek some clarity and have played a hand in developing the understanding and ultimately seek initial vision. They know the philosophy reassurance that the spirit and intent of behind that. I wanted to have the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 48

Minister explain: are those features still seeing if this program could be intact as we go forward with entering a expanded in one or two communities. new stage with the John Howard Mahsi. Society? Mahsi. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Nadli. Minister. you, Mr. Nadli. Minister. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Chair, I Chair. As I may have mentioned earlier, want to make it clear that the A New this of course is a program for men who Day program, the group's therapy are not in custody, but there are certain model, and the basic curriculum is not programs they can access in the changing. That will stay the same. What custodial setting. However, we are is changing is some of the hoping to have better connections with administration around the program, the probation services. Perhaps those who flexibility which has already been have been in custody and are released, mentioned today, so that men might be in completing their sentence, may be able to rejoin more easily. Efforts are able to access the program more easily. going to be made to make more Again, as I mentioned, in the future, facilitators. We also think that, should should the program work out well, which the program work out well, which we are we are certainly hoping for, we may be confident of, that the new slightly able to expand it to communities outside changed model will enable us to take it of Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Chair. outside of Yellowknife to other communities, where this type of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank program is also badly needed. Thank you, Minister. I see nothing further from you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Nadli. Next item, Mr. Testart. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Minister. Mr. Nadli. The Minister, in his statement this morning, the statement we are MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, discussing right now, seeks cooperation I think the Minister answered my second and support of all Members of this question. It was whether the terms Legislative Assembly to move forward. I would outline the possibility of building think that has been a challenging upon the successes of the A New Day proposition for many of us. The merits of program to see if there are opportunities this program are undeniable. I have a for outreach. It has been pointed out few questions. I would like to thank my that sometimes people, especially men, honourable friends on this side of the can't access the program because they House for canvassing well the concerns are incarcerated. of both the community and honourable Members on the many questions that There should be some efforts made to they are still waiting on for this program. try to see if they could have an established program, as an example, The Minister said that all counsellors will the North Slave Correctional Centre be properly trained. We have had a brief and, at the same time, looking within the discussion about that training, but does possibility of maybe, in the long term, this new contract include a training May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 49 component, and is the John Howard It still exists for this program which Society charged with delivering that would provide additional support in that training? What competencies exist way as well. Thank you, Mr. Chair. around that? Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Testart. you, Mr. Testart. The Minister. MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Does that mean that additional training Chair. I am wondering if I could have spaces will be opened up for these Ms. Gardiner answer that question. counsellors or will they be competing Thank you. with existing public service employees? I say this because I know some of these CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank training opportunities are quite limited you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. and I'd like the Minister to give a MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. commitment then that the department The contract with the John Howard will make these opportunities available Society doesn't explicitly lay out what and provide additional resources if additional requirements for training on required. Thank you. top of the minimum requirements to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank meet, as we have done with the pilot you, Mr. Testart. Minister. program, and as was made clear on the RFP document is the level of MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you for your cooperation with our department to answer to at least a portion of that make sure that any opportunities question. Thank you. available for professional development are met and there's a requirement in the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): contract that counsellors do maintain a Pardon me. I'm sorry, Minister. Can you minimum level of professional please repeat that? development hours. It's our intention as MR. GOLDNEY: I'd ask Ms. Gardiner to we've done previously to work with the answer that question. contractor to make sure that those opportunities - and from our division, for CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank example, we have many opportunities you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. with our community justice coordinators MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. providing training for those coordinators There will no competition for spots. The and victim services workers, as well as training needs are similar and we will be upcoming through the family information including those opportunities for all of liaison office - that training opportunities those service providers that we're that are appropriate for many of these connected to, so it will not be a service providers and they would be competition. Thank you, Mr. Chair. included in that. Our intention is to continue that and provide whatever CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank support we can to make sure that the you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Testart. counsellors are receiving the support MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I they need as well as of course as the appreciate that response. The Minister requirement for the clinical supervision. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 50 acknowledged the community partners what the clients have to say. The whole that the honourable Member for Hay point of this exercise is to review the, River North brought up in his line of the very expensive review, that took questions and further recognizes the place, that was tabled in the House in hard work done by the clients to heal November was to the effect that not that themselves, but at the same time we the program was broken in any way but know that the RFP was not taken up; that it could be improved. Ultimately, that it was a rejection of that by those that improvement is for the clients. community partners and that as much We're hoping as we move forward the as we, the Minister, has given kudos to program having become more flexible these individuals who have worked hard that we will be able to better serve those to rehabilitate themselves is the clients that wish to avail themselves to recognition that only a small number of the A New Day program and that we're men. The message is a bit confusing, optimistic that will take place. Thank but does the Minister, does this new you, Mr. Chair. deal, is this new deal going to take those considerations into account? How CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank are we going to be continuing to work you, Minister. Mr. Testart. with community partners and ensure MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. they have input in the future. I want to I'm not sure if the Minister addressed my make sure we're not just paying lip concerns about working with the service, political lip service, to people community service providers, but I'll who are benefiting from this program leave that alone for now. My final and we're actually showing real support question is the concerns from the and we are listening to our grass roots department about this program have when they deliver things. I know this always been on an administrative basis. question has already somewhat been I appreciate the program is more posed, I'd like if the Minister can answer flexible, but these admin, and we just this rather than the department officials. heard that the John Howard Society will I think they've already well explained the be administering the program but not department's position, but I'd like to actually operating it. They'll be doing know how the Minister is going to that through subcontractors. Why is it ensure that the viewpoints of clients and the GNWT then not just subcontractors of these groups are well connected to are handling the administration itself? this program on an ongoing basis. Why do we need that third-party step? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Testart. Minister. The Member you, Mr. Testart. Minister. requested that you answer. Of course, you are under no obligation. Minister HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Perhaps Mr. Sebert. Goldney could answer that question. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Chair, of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank course, we are always hoping to work you, Minister. Mr. Goldney. with community organizations. We are, of course, always interested in hearing May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 51

MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Certainly, as the program evolves, we you, Minister. Mr. Testart. There's do anticipate and do hope that there will nothing further from Mr. Testart. Next, I be opportunities to build capacities with have Mr. Thompson. other facilitators. The reason the John Howard Society and an NGO was MR. THOMPSON: Thank you Mr. Chair. selected was because we did recognize I'm going to try to narrow down my there is some value and we have heard questions because my colleagues have this from NGOs of having a bit of provided a number of good comments distance from government and having and questions. I guess my first concern an independent storefront-type scenario is did not this, the coalition work with the available to make it less onerous or less original RFP and then what I've heard intimidating for prospective clients. We from the Minister is something, was did hear that concern. Moving forward different. Can you explain why the though, we might look at other options department works with the coalition to that might see the government taking come up with RFP but then we end up more of a direct role. Thank you, Mr. in this situation? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Minister. you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Testart. MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. TESTART: On that point the Perhaps Ms. Gardiner could assist. intention of this move is to have that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank separation with government to create a you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. more client-friendly atmosphere. The previous operators of this program had MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. very good relationships with our many, I'll do my best to answer what I think many clients. I may not have heard the your question is. The original program response to this question that has been design, when it was established in 2011, asked, but what is being done to retain was developed with a committee of their expertise for the nationally some coalition members and recognized program they developed? government as well as community Thank you. subject matter experts. The curriculum and the approach was established CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank through that group and then a request you, Mr. Testart. Minister. for proposals for the program as MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. designed, which was broader in nature Well, the previous providers were not than what we've gone with for the long- interested in bidding or continuing with term program model. It was a different the contract, so that was their choice to situation in that case in that it was up to take that path. It was necessary for us to proponents to provide a proposal that look to other NGOs. I can't advise, encompassed the entire program. however, that there will be, of course, In this case, the RFP was based on one government observation and monitoring segment of the program delivery, in a of this and also the coordinator will be modular way, if you will. The balance in-house in the government. Thank you. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 52 that we tried to strike was understanding Therefore, it was necessary to seek that we knew we had significant interest other avenues to make sure that this from members of the coalition and other very important program would continue community members, as well as to be delivered. Therefore, we went out potentially members of the private to NGOs that we thought would have sector or other community members the capacity to deal with this type of such as elders, who may not be contract. Ultimately, the John Howard associated with any official organization. Society stepped forward, and that is That RFP was designed in that way to how they ended up with the contract. make sure that all of those different Thank you, Mr. Chair. groups would be encouraged to provide these services, so that we had the ability CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank to provide that depth across the board. you, Minister. Mr. Thompson. What we did was try to balance making MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. sure that RFP process was fair, so that Chair. The Minister did not answer my we were not giving information to one question, so I guess four years from group of potential proponents over now we will probably be in the same another, as well as getting information boat. It is unfortunate because we could from our community partners, in which have learned something from it. I guess coalition members were quite involved I will go to my next question. What was the government's response to the and consulted by the third-party th evaluators. We took that into coalition letter dated May 10 ? Thank consideration, as well as the lessons you, Mr. Chair. learned from the delivery and the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank operation of the program. Thank you, you, Mr. Thompson. Minister. Mr. Chair. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: We did receive CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank the letter. However, we found it you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Thompson. absolutely necessary that we move MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Ms. ahead. As mentioned earlier, there was Gardiner. Thanks for the answer. I a very extensive report done on the guess, to me, red flags. You want to program. It did suggest several changes learn something? You had nobody from that we did not see as terribly significant the coalition apply for this. That, to me, to the overall program. At that point, is a big red flag. Have you guys taken obviously, there were parties that were this as an opportunity to learn not particularly happy with the new RFP, something from this? Thank you, Mr. including the previous provider. Chair. Therefore, to make sure that the program would still be delivered, we CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank looked to other NGOs, and as I said you, Mr. Thompson. Minister. earlier, the John Howard Society, an organization that has existed in Canada HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Well, we were for 150 years, stepped forward. We now disappointed when we did not receive a have a contract with them, and we are response to our RFP from the Tree of optimistic as we move forward. Thank Peace or from other possible providers. you. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 53

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank evidence-based. After all, we did go out you, Minister. Mr. Thompson. and commissioned a very extensive report on this program, which suggested MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. certain changes, which after a good deal Chair, and I thank the Minister for the of consideration, were incorporated into 150 years update. It was very important the new RFP. We then went out, and to hear that I think for the third or fourth unfortunately, there were not any time here. I now understand that John bidders. Therefore, we had to look Howard Society is 150 years old. It has further afield to make sure the program been in the Northwest Territories for 23 continues. As to evaluating the program, years. Thank you very much. However, I of course we will be evaluating the guess my big concern is you went out, program, and perhaps I could have Ms. talked to his organization, and gave Gardiner expand on my answer. Thank them from a one-year term to a four- you. year term. You did not follow the same process given out to everybody else. To CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank me, I am not worried about John you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. Howard Society so much as the process. You basically said to the MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. coalition that you have heard what they I want to clarify that we do have an said, but I don't know if you listened to existing logic model. What we are them. Listening to them is different than hoping to do is improve upon it based being heard. Heard, you can sit there on our experiences so far, and that is and nod your head; listening to them is the intention for further program actually listening to their concerns and evaluation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. making a decision that benefits all CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank parties. It is a win-win. It is a negotiation you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Thompson. process. It is a big concern for me. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Let's move away from the society and Chair, and I thank the Minister and Ms. that. Let's go to your logic model, the Gardiner for the answer. Having a logic evaluation. Now, the department has model and actually implementing had a long period of time to come up something and knowing what you're with an evaluation tool. Now, we still do looking for? It is great that you have a not have an evaluation tool in place. Will logic model, but you do not have an the department get an evaluation tool evaluation tool in place. You've done right away, so that it is not after developed this program. You've the fact, it is not a year down the road, developed this RFP. Now, you are but will be done right away, so that you sitting here talking about how you are can see if this program or this process going to develop an evaluation process. that you're talking about works? Thank If you are going to do something, you you, Mr. Chair. should have an evaluation process set CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank in place before you implement this. You you, Mr. Thompson. Minister. guys have been working on it, so it is a concern. I understand you have a logic HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Mr. Chair, we model. My last question, because the would like to think that our decisions are time is running out, is there significant May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 54 cost, yearly cost to this program, from HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. what we originally proposed to the RFP? Chair. No, this program is not going to Thank you, Mr. Chair. be available to those either serving sentences or in remand. After all, they CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank are both in custody, and in fact, the you, Mr. Thompson. I request that the program was never meant for those Minister keep his answer brief, as we groups. Thank you, Mr. Chair. are running short on time. Minister. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne. Chair. The Member is quite correct. Time is running out, and that is why it MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you. Will the was necessary for us to move quickly on program be available to those that are this. There is an evaluation process, and just simply seeking healing? Thank you, we are confident that the provider will Mr. Chair. live up to expectations. If they do not, then would be in breach of the contract. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Thank you. you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): I will HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Definitely. That allow you perhaps to answer the it is one of the groups that is targeted for question briefly. Minister. this program. Thank you. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: There are no CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank additional costs. Thank you. you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. you, Minister. Time has expired for Mr. Chair. Like it was previously, will Thompson. Next, I have Mr. Vanthuyne. partners of men seeking healing, their spouses or common-laws or even family MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. members, be able to attend counselling Chairman. There are a few points or a as well? Thank you, Mr. Chair. few questions that I would like to ask. First, maybe I will just ask some of the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank basic questions that I understood about you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. the program previously that I just want HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I would like to to make sure are going to still be in have Ms. Gardiner assist with this place. One is that I understood to some question. Thank you, Mr. Chair. degree that the program was available in the past to those that were in remand. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Is it going to be available to those in you, Minister. Ms. Gardiner. remand? I am not talking about those MS. GARDINER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. who have been sentenced, but those Absolutely, the connection of victims of who are awaiting sentencing. Is this domestic violence to supports that are program going to be available to those right for them and designed for them is a in remand? key focus of the program. It remains that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank way. That will continue in this case, that, you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. with the appropriate privacy policies and May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 55 approaches in mind, those services and recognize it is a group program that is those people will absolutely be not wellsuited to be delivered within connected to services designed for them institutions and, in fact, it never has and meant for them. Thank you, been delivered in the institutions. But, Mr. Chair. certainly, we do anticipate greater connections with inmates as they CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank transition out of the institutions, through you, Ms. Gardiner. Mr. Vanthuyne. correction staff and probation staff, to MR. VANTHUYNE: Okay, thank you. certainly make individuals that might be Those are good answers. Mr. Chair, I wellsuited to that program offering to be just wonder, we know that there are a connected with it. Then, hopefully, they variety of programs that are available to will make a choice to further their those who are incarcerated, that have healing. Thank you, Mr. Chair. been sentenced. We know that there is CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank limited access to programs to those who you. Mr. Vanthuyne. are in remand. Is there a men's healing program available of some sort to those MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, who are in remand currently? If there is Mr. Chair. I appreciate the reply. I not, why would they not be eligible to guess, then, an important question that I access this men's healing program? would have is: we have those who have Thank you, Mr. Chair. gone through incarceration and who are now on probation, and those folks would CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank be eligible, I take it, to access the A New you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. Day. What certainty do individuals, men, HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Certainly, in that situation receiving counselling Mr. Chair, there are such programs have to be sure that what they may available, but, if I could let Mr. Goldney reveal, let's say, to a counsellor is not expand on that. kind of held against them, those in particular that are in probation? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Minister. Mr. Goldney. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are definitely programs available. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Yes, of course, The challenge, of course, with the discussions with the counsellors remanded inmates it is often difficult to would be confidential, so we are not schedule them in those programs. The anticipating that would be a problem. department has been working, as have Thank you, Mr. Chair. other jurisdictions that are facing this CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank challenge, trying to find modular you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne. programming that can benefit so remanded inmates can participate in, so MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, we certainly are working in that direction Mr. Chair. Those were the questions I to provide various programs. With had around the programming aspects, respect to the A New Day program but now I just want to talk a little bit specifically, though, I think we have to again about the administrative aspects May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 56 and, call it, the RFP. I don't think I have reasons why they would not have heard anything today that suggests that submitted to the RFP and some of the changes to, you know, we are saying potential challenges that they might changes, there were minimal changes to have faced? Did you get any feedback the programming. There were more from individual NGOs in that regard? changes administratively, but, from what Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am hearing today when you talk about more flexibility, potentially more CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank facilitators, the ability to potentially move you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. it outside of Yellowknife and maybe HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I did not receive even into a model that could be used in any direct feedback, so I am going to remand, these do not seem to be defer the question to Mr. Goldney, if I administrative aspects that I find may. daunting, that maybe any other NGO of which have been around Yellowknife for CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank many a year, who have probably you, Minister. Mr. Goldney. provided similar types of services, in MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I fact, administratively. I am just think what we heard from NGOs was challenged to understand how it was simply that they were not interested in that this particular NGO had the the program as it was redesigned, and administrative capacity that others they were not specific in their concerns. seemingly did not. Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I would only be speculating, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank so I would have to be careful not to do you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Minister. that, but I might suggest some might have preferred that there were not any HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, changes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair. I think it was more a question of interest than capacity. When we went CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank out for the RFP, there were some you, Mr. Goldney. Mr. Vanthuyne. preRFP meetings to which there were at MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, least several NGOs attending, and we Mr. Chair. In the interest of time, just were expecting bids, if I can put it that one last question. It seems to me now way. However, none came forward, and we are going to have an administrative that is at that point we started searching component and a deliverable further afield. The John Howard Society component, and the deliverable appeared to be a good fit, and we component is going to be coming from believe they will be. Thank you, Mr. subcontractors that are qualified, and Chair. the administrative component seemingly CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank is coming from the local NGO. What you, Minister. Mr. Vanthuyne. percentage of the contract, if you can reveal that, is going to, in this instance, MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, John Howard Society for the Mr. Chair. I think this has been touched administrative aspects? Thank you, on before in a broader scope as it Mr. Chair. relates to the coalition, but did any individual NGOs outline to you the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 57

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank something of interest to them. Thank you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Time has expired, you. but I will allow the Minister to concisely and briefly answer the question. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Minister. Mr. McNeely. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I don't have that information before me, but perhaps MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Goldney might be able to help. Will the Minister provide that information Thank you, Mr. Chair. to confirm whether employment has been extended, and if the particular two CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank employees are going to accept the you, Minister. Mr. Goldney. invitation? Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. GOLDNEY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Unfortunately, we do not have those you, Mr. McNeely. I am not sure if that is details yet. A lot will depend on the something that the Minister can do. It is NGO's discussions with perspective related to a third party, but I will let the facilitators and the arrangements that Minister respond. they make with those facilitators, so we just do not have that information yet. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I have no ability Thank you, Mr. Chair. to do that. As to the future employment of the employees who were mentioned CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank in the question, that would really be up you, Mr. Goldney. Next on my list I have to them and the Tree of Peace. I have Mr. McNeely. no information or no ability to have any effect on that relationship. Thank you. MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Adding to the alreadyspoken questions CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank here and as my previous colleague said, you, Minister. Mr. McNeely. you are going to have an administrative component and the subcontractor MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. component. I found the former The Minister had mentioned here earlier employees very sincere. Has there been that this A New Day program was not employment extended to those former being implemented at the YCI or YCC. I employees of the old A New Day care think it was, and maybe you should program? Thank you, Mr. Chair. revisit my suggestions to revisit hosting that program with the offenders' CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank community in the areas of reintegration you, Mr. McNeely. Minister. back into the system, in rehabilitation courses, for the reason being it supports HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I am not certain an outline in the Auditor General's report if I understand the question. Of course, that nothing is being done in that area to the John Howard Society will be making offer services of rehabilitation and its own arrangements as to whether the reintegration in that report. I am Tree of Peace wishes to employ these suggesting to the Minister to take that people as contractors. This is really up into account, if he would. Thank you, Mr. to the Tree of Peace, and I have no Chair. information as to whether that might be May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 58

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank program is very directed to those not in you, Mr. McNeely. The Minister. custody, who are there voluntarily. Thank you, Mr. Chair. HON. LOUIS SEBERT: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Such a change would be an CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank almost complete change in the program, you, Minister. Mr. McNeely. which is meant for those not in custody, either serving prisoners or on remand. MR. MCNEELY: My closing comment is Now, that is not to say there are not it seems that a decision was made, and programs to assist those who are in there is really no value to provide sound custody. There are such programs, but suggestions because that is where it is they have a different focus. The whole going to stop. Thank you, Mr. Chair. point of this program was to assist those CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank not in custody. There are programs for you, Mr. McNeely. Would the Minister those in custody, and programs for like to respond? those not in custody. I imagine it would be very difficult to integrate those two HON. LOUIS SEBERT: I don't want programs and, in fact, that is not what A anybody to think that a decision was New Day is all about. It is voluntary for made irrationally. After all, we went out men who have issues with their for an evaluation report. This matter has relationships, and it is meant for those been brought up several times in the not in custody. Again, there are House, so there is a very careful programs for those in custody, presently evaluation prepared. On the basis of either on remand or serving prisoners. that evaluation, an RFP was issued. Thank you. There were no responses. We then went out to NGOs, so I am quite CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank confident that we have conducted this you, Minister. Mr. McNeely. whole process properly. Thank you, Mr. MR. MCNEELY: Let me reword that. My Chair. question is: if an offender was CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank incarcerated for family violence as the you, Minister. Anything further, Mr. program is intended for, would the McNeely? Nothing further from Mr. Minister entertain the idea of targeting McNeely. I have no one further on my those with family violence as clients, list. Thank you three for this discussion. who have offended in the area of family Does committee now agree that we violence, for counselling and consider Bill 16, An Act to Amend the rehabilitation? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Education Act? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. you, Mr. McNeely. The Minister. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank HON. LOUIS SEBERT: This program is you, committee. Minister's Statement for those who may be offenders in the 186-18(2) will stay on the order papers. sense they have committed assaults Minister, thank you to you and your and so on, but it is not meant for those witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may actually in custody or on remand, of escort the witnesses from the Chamber. course, which is also in custody. This Minister, you may return to your seat. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 59

Thank you, committee. We will move on to improve student outcomes, we must to Bill 16, An Act to Amend the ensure educators have access to the Education Act, as agreed. I will ask the experiences, resources, training, and Minister responsible for the bill to professional development to improve introduce it. Minister Moses. their workload and wellness situations, so they can focus on excellence in HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, teaching. This is what the Strengthening Mr. Chair. I am pleased to be here today Teacher Instructional Practices initiative to introduce Bill 16, An Act to Amend the is all about. Education Act. This bill seeks to change the age of entitlement to access Before the end of this school year, I will kindergarten programs from five years provide the Standing Committee on old to four, as well as reduce the Social Development with a complete minimum hours of instruction required to monitoring, evaluation, and 945 hours for grades 1 through 12. accountability framework for the STIP pilot project, where we anticipate seeing The goal of these two major initiatives, improvements in: also known as junior kindergarten and STIP, is to improve the NWT education  teacher satisfaction through pre- system for all learners so that they can and post-school year surveys; meet the challenges of today and into the future, and be successful in  teacher human resource whatever they choose to do. Junior statistics, such as sick days; kindergarten will provide all NWT  use of professional development families, regardless of their income or time; geographic location, the option of enrolling their four-year-old children in a  student attendance; and free, play-based, developmentally appropriate program. As this Legislative  student course completions. Assembly has recognized, early Significant change will take time, and childhood development is critical to a the evaluation will likely evolve as child's future success, and there is a schools try new approaches with their direct link between the quality of early school calendars. As such, the education and care and positive future evaluation plan will include a reporting outcomes. schedule outlining the appropriate We also recognize that we need to measures, as the initiative evolves over provide teachers with time to plan and time. I want to reiterate that I believe the develop their own learning. This territory-wide implementation of junior government knows that in order to kindergarten and the opportunity to build improve our students' academic results, in time during the school year for we not only need JK offered in every teachers to complete their professional community, we also need our teachers duties and strengthen the quality of to have time, during their regular work instructional practices will be game week and school year, to develop their changers. I strongly believe that, in skills and properly plan, implement, and years to come, we will look back at this assess their students' learning. In order moment in time to these two strategic May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 60 initiatives and see them as a vital step teachers and administrators said. We on the road to success for our young are making two recommendations here children, our youth, and our territory. I to the floor to make a decision to amend will be happy to answer any questions the bill, and at that time, we will discuss Members may have. Mahsi. those. I will have further comments during those amendments. I would like CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank to thank everybody for their commitment you, Minister Moses. I will note that the and hard work to this. It was very committee, the Standing Committee on interesting and very challenging. We Social Development presented a would like to thank all the presenters, substantive report, Committee Report and all the work that they did to provide 10-18(2), in relation to this bill. Now, us. Their feedback, the union, the Minister, do you have witnesses you teachers, and all the parents and all would like to bring to the Chamber? that. It was a very difficult decision. I HON. ALFRED MOSES: Yes, I do. understand this is near and dear to people's hearts, our youth. It is near and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank dear to me. Bill 16, as we move forward, you, Minister, Sergeant-at-Arms, please we do have amendments that we wish escort the witnesses into the Chamber. to bring to the floor at the appropriate Minister, would you please introduce time. Thank you, Mr. Chair. your witnesses to the House. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank HON. ALFRED MOSES: To my right, I you, Mr. Thompson. General comments have my assistant deputy minister of to the bill? Mr. Testart. Education and Culture, Ms. Rita Mueller, and Mr. Michael Reddy with our MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. legislative division. Thank you. First, I would like to acknowledge the work of the Honourable Members of the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Standing Committee on Social you, Minister. Welcome to the Development. They spent a tremendous witnesses. I will now open the floor to amount of time making sure this general comments on Bill 16, and legislation and the public interest, and it committee, please keep in mind that we was well-represented through their will also be discussing the report deliberations, and ultimately, through prepared by the standing committee as the substantive report that they created well, so please keep any general and read into the House earlier this comments to the scope of the bill. Do week. This act will bring both junior we have general comments? Mr. kindergarten into the NWT curriculum, Thompson. and reduce the number of instructional MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. hours required by law. Those are the Chair. My general comments are going most significant portions of it. to be short and brief. We went out and It has been a hot topic of debate in our went to three communities. We have 33 communities. Many different heard over 237 responses through e- viewpoints rising to the forefront. mails and letters. Committee provided Ultimately, junior kindergarten has and listened to what people and largely been well understood by the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 61 public. The strengthening instructional improve student outcomes in every teacher practices, the STIP pilot, is grade, not only in graduation. The somewhat of a new development for process of getting to the point we are at many people although we have been now, reporting on this bill has been discussing it for several months. To be made unnecessarily difficult by poor clear, I think our teachers are world communication by the Department of class, and they work in very difficult Education, Culture and Employment. circumstances here in the North. Given the limited resources that we have at In the case of JK, the standing our means, providing them with the committee and our colleagues on this flexibility to do their jobs to the best of side have worked very hard to ensure their ability, I think is a very good policy that full funding for junior kindergarten decision. is, in fact, full funding. That was not given proactively. It was something that I do acknowledge the concerns that the had to be wrangled about, and I think Standing Committee on Social that we do have some good results. But Development has brought forward, and I this is a perfect example of what my appreciate what they have set out in grandmother would have said was their report and the recommendations "penny wise and pound foolish." This they have made, and I look forward to could have been a good news story right debating their proposed amendments from the beginning if adequate later on today. I would like to keep an resources had been pledged willingly open mind on legislation. I certainly do and proactively instead of being support the intentions of this bill, but if extracted an inch at a time. Likewise, there are ways to make it better, I am with the Strengthening Teacher open to considering those. But I do want Instructional Practices, this also could to say, I strongly support the have been a good news story but it was hardworking teachers of Kam Lake and not because once again, the major all of our communities, and I am very problem with this is that there are not pleased to see that we are working on enough teachers in our school system, solutions to the challenges they face and the teachers who are there now are every day as they are educating our too hard-pressed to do anymore, a point students and supporting our families. which I heard repeatedly, and which I do Thank you, Mr. Chair. not doubt at all. But rather than providing a proactive approach from a CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank communications point of view, the you, Mr. Testart. Next, we have Ms. Minister left it to the standing committee Green. to explain this initiative to incredulous MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. parents and to supportive teachers. As a Chair, when we had our hearing in result, once again, we have ended up Yellowknife, the executive director of the wrangling right up until today about NWTTA said that the status quo in amendments and about support for the education was not the answer to where bill itself. If there is a takeaway from this we are in terms of student achievement entire process, it is that communication and teacher wellness. I agree with that. I between the Department of Education, agree with that statement. We need to Culture and Employment, and its May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 62 stakeholders, and that includes parents, some remarks about junior kindergarten students, teachers, Regular MLAs, towards the end, as well. On the needs to be improved. We are not your surface, this bill looks like it is small last thought. We need to be your first changes, but it has proven to be very thought, and that is not what I am challenging to get clear responses and seeing here, and the process has been information from the Minister and his made unduly difficult as a result. Thank department. This uncertainty has often you. given the appearance of setting teachers' interests against those of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank parents and created tremendous you, Ms. Green. Would the Minister like confusion. I have probably received to respond? more emails and calls on this bill HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, compared to any of other matters during Mr. Chair. I think communication is an my term as an MLA. issue that we need to work on, but it A few key points I want to make about also needs to be addressed through STIP: a huge amount of collaboration partnerships with our education work went into the education renewal authorities working with our board chairs initiative as the way to transform our to ensure that this message gets out to educational system to better meet the teachers. I did attend some of the public changing needs of our students while hearings as well as constituency recognizing the critical role of teachers meetings where we had parents who and their wellness, but changes in were just getting this information instructional hours was not a presented to them. However, I know recommendation coming out of the some of our education authorities did education renewal initiative. I fully reach out as well, including us, and we recognize the key role played by did try to get the communication on the teachers as we raised two children here, radio and in the newspapers, get it out in Yellowknife, and very much value the as much as we can to get feedback from commitment of teachers here and parents and other stakeholders, but I do across the Northwest Territories. appreciate the Member's comments, Changes in instructional hours came out from all three Members who have made of the collective bargaining process as a comments so far. Thank you, Mr. Chair. means to relieve the pressure felt by CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank overworked teachers and to ensure that you, Mr. Moses. Next, we have Mr. they are treated fairly compared to other O'Reilly. jurisdictions in Canada. MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. While I believe in and support collective First off, I want to thank the Standing bargaining, Regular MLAs had no idea Committee on Social Development for as to what mandate was provided to their exceptional work on Bill 16. I had GNWT negotiators assigned to the the privilege of sitting in on many of their Northwest Territories Teachers' meetings. I also want to thank all of the Association contract. This negotiating people who participated in that review. mandate was clearly driven by Cabinet's My remarks, I am going to focus on a fiscal strategy and their desire to set a little bit on STIP, and then I will have pattern for future negotiations with the May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 63

Union of Northern Workers. The One option is a reduction in instructional NWTTA president went on the public hours, but another solution could be to record saying that there was no offer in hire more teachers and classroom terms of salary increases, so something assistants and other changes. else had to be done to get an Unfortunately, the bill does not address agreement that teachers would accept. other options and has not provided an Once again, Cabinet's fiscal strategy opportunity to fully explore all these was the driving force behind those options. I want to turn quickly to the negotiations, a strategy that has been junior kindergarten portion of the bill. rejected numerous times by Regular Everyone would agree, in an ideal MLAs. world, that junior kindergarten is inherently a good thing, but the So what are the lessons we can learn implementation has been fraught with from this? Number one, Regular MLAs poor communications and shifting have to pay much closer attention to responses. Junior kindergarten what Cabinet is negotiating. I am not implementation has consumed an asking to be at the negotiating table, but inordinate amount of political time and Cabinet needs to share its approach capital. It is beyond me how a policy and seek input from the Regular MLAs. analysis could have gone forward That has yet to happen. I have asked for without considering financial impacts on a briefing on the UNW negotiations. The busing, inclusive schooling, Aboriginal Finance Minister made a commitment to programming and other costs, or the do that during our winter review of the impact on childcare space providers. No 20172018 budget, but it still has not matter what the Minister has said, it is taken place. Number two, as a clearly not fully funded when it comes to government, we need to invest a lot inclusive schooling, Aboriginal more into education to improve student programming, and busing. outcomes and teacher wellness by hiring more teachers and other Yesterday, we received the formula that measures. Children should be amongst ECE uses for funding schools, and we our highest priorities and, yes, even now have that information, finally, but it higher than building roads to resources. is not where it should be. I will continue Three, ECE needs to get back to the to push the Minister very hard on these education renewal initiative as the real matters until there are clear and path to educational changes. The train unequivocal commitments to fully fund wrecks of junior kindergarten these aspects of junior kindergarten implementation and STIP resulted from implementation. I recognize that some very poor and often contradictory of the words I have said are pretty communications from ECE and a lack of harsh, but, I am sorry, I am going to call leadership. Junior kindergarten and it the way it is. Thank you very much, STIP have diverted an enormous Mr. Chair. amount capacity away from the changes that everyone had agreed to make in the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank education renewal initiative. you, Mr. O'Reilly. Next, Mr. Vanthuyne. To be clear, I believe our teachers are MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, overworked and should be treated fairly. Mr. Chair. First, like speakers previous, I May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 64 want to commend the Standing Mr. Chair, one of the most important Committee on Social Development for jobs we have as a government is the their extensive work on this bill and education of our youth. Our education thank them for taking this legislation on system is where we place our trust to the road to seek very important input raise healthy, welladjusted, capable from the public. I also want to children, ready to take on the world and acknowledge the many residents of become integral contributors to society. Yellowknife North, in particular parents, It is a sacred duty we have to the that took the time to share their views children and families of the Northwest and opinions with me over the past Territories and, indeed, our future. As an couple of months. I also want to thank advocate for education, I am also a the many teachers, many of them from staunch supporter of teachers, and Yellowknife North, who wrote to me therefore I am strongly in support of the sharing their work experience and Strengthening Teacher Instructional perspective on Bill 16. I would be remiss Practices, or STIP, program. We have if I didn't thank the Minister and his staff bestowed a great many responsibilities for attending my recent Yellowknife on our teachers over the years, and we North constituency meeting, as well as have high expectations of them, and representatives from the NWT Teachers' those responsibilities and expectations Association for coming and sharing never cease. In fact, they continually valuable information so constituents grow. could be better informed on this matter. Lastly, I want to thank Yellowknife While the STIP program does reduce school districts and their boards for their the minimum required classroom hours, valuable insight, as well. this does not mean teachers would get more time away from work. Instead, STIP refocuses teachers' hours and school resources to provide enhanced support for teachers and more dedicated time for noninstructional responsibilities. Under the STIP program, they will have more time for planning, strengthening and improving their skills, and professional collaboration and development. They will be able to form and participate in professional learning communities to build on experience and shared knowledge. Emphasizing these things will result in better quality education for our kids. Teachers will be at less risk of high stress, unmanageable workloads, and burnout. As has been said many times in this discussion, teachers who carry an unreasonable workload and can't manage a healthy worklife balance May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 65 won't be good resources for our kids in The other important element of Bill 16 is the long term. the introduction of junior kindergarten. The government has committed to fully We know teacher absenteeism and high funding junior kindergarten, and this is a turnover have been a major concern positive step forward. The Minister's over the years. I believe we must remain commitment to maintain a pupil-to- committed to education renewal, in teacher ratio of 12 to 1 or better is also which we have clearly stated that the significant. These achievements are to teacherstudent relationship will be be commended. However, to be clear, positive and healthy while maintaining a Members have wrestled with the safe learning environment. Mr. Chair, as question of what "full funding" truly a child, I was challenged with a learning means. The department has disability, dyslexia. I believe that, as a acknowledged that its funding formulas youth facing this challenge, my time with determine the allocations, but not those teachers was better served through allocations adequately. To implement quality time and not necessarily a large junior kindergarten, funding for inclusive quantity of time. I would emphasize in schooling will need to be stretched over this context that Bill 16 permits a an additional grade. The Standing reduction in the minimum hours of Committee's report indicates that classroom time, but teachers, territorial board chairs have already administration, and boards will have the flagged funding as inadequate and in discretion to exceed that minimum to continued decline. These chairs called provide students with the support they for funding to be restored to 2012 levels. deem necessary. We also need to make sure that the As has been articulated by many, we transportation requirements of JK are must support our teachers, and I believe adequately funded. The Minister has that to be true if we want to see results. made the commitment to monitor the Teachers have the most profound transportation costs and seek additional influence on the educational success funding if necessary. I think it's enjoyed by children. I want to state important that we commit full funding to clearly that I am committed not only to all aspects of JK. To that end, if the betterment of education but also to necessary, I will be seeking to confirm the ongoing development, skill, and adequate funding in the forthcoming proficiency of teachers. By supporting 2017-2018 budget deliberations. In our teachers, we will ultimately be conclusion, Mr. Chair, the education of offering the most support and benefit to our young people is a crucial and sacred the ongoing success and wellbeing of job. Central to our goal of creating a our children. We should emphasize, as stable, healthy, and prosperous future the Minister noted in his comments for all our citizens, support for our earlier, that the Minister has made a teachers in whom we placed our trust commitment to provide a monitoring, for that mission is an essential part of evaluation, and accountability plan to achieving that goal. Just lastly, Mr. the Standing Committee on Social Chair, before final support, I look Development before the end of this forward to considering my colleague's school year. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 66 amendments and those are my general seeking a public process and comments. Thank you, Mr. Chair. consultations on the two key amendments that were being proposed, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank first, of course was JK and the other one you, Mr. Vanthuyne. Next I have Mr. was on the instructional hours, I know Nakimayak. the report has been done. I thank my MR. NAKIMAYAK: Thank you, Mr. colleagues in the House for bringing that Chair. Mr. Chair, I won't take up too report, and I understand we're going to much time. I know there's a lot of keep talking; more likely the substance questions and I won't reiterate what my of the report later on, but for the most colleagues are saying. Just coming from part, what was troubling for me was to my region of Nunakput, I know teachers hear parents, the quote right off the bat are overworked and like other Members was just, I'm just looking at my notes here have had tons of e-mails from fairly quickly. One parent made the teachers, from principals, and from comment that it was disheartening to education boards. I believe that students learn of the, just perhaps some of the need a good comfortable place to go to bungling, if I could use that term, in school and a chance to learn. In my terms of communicating the agreement home town of Paulatuk, we've gone between the Northwest Territories through a couple of principals and Teachers' Association and the teacher burnout is an example of, also a department in terms of instructional sign of whether a child wants to go to hours. That stood out in my mind in school or not. terms of some of the speakers. Of course, these are parents that have the I know when I was younger, I looked best interests of their children in mind. forward to go to school every day. That At the same time, you know, the other was the quality of the teachers that we comments to say that, well, the status had and the dedication that they put into quo is not workable but they need to it. Back then, they weren't as make some changes. It was a balancing overworked as they are now. I'm just act to try to listen to all the concerns that going to keep it short. I support the we have to field throughout the amendments to this bill. I support the communities that we had visited. wishes of some teachers across the territory who want to make this Coming from a small community, it's difference. I believe that teacher burnout good that we have large regions and a will eventually someday affect the city like Yellowknife, where you have an attendance of some students. I'm just abundance of teachers and some very going to say that I support this. Thank successful rates, successful you, Mr. Chair. achievement rates, that we can be all proud of, but, in smaller communities, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank it's very challenging. In some respects, you, Mr. Nakimayak. Next, Mr. Nadli. we lag behind in terms of academic MR. NADLI: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. achievements in terms of how our Chair, as part of the Standing students are doing in the smaller Committee on Social Development that communities and then to consider the was tasked with doing the review and idea of reducing this task from May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 67 instructional hours. That's hard to take. I feel – I know we do have to do things a Frame that in as perhaps the concern little differently. Many of our students and hearing the other concerns that are somewhere between two years were made. It was almost a balancing behind grade level in some of our act that the committee had, but of communities and it's a huge, huge course, the most prominent was trying concern of the parents especially up in to work with and negotiate an the North. I know the department has agreement between, of course, the done their research and the research department and the Northwest does say that in the long term that this Territories Teachers' Association and will benefit the students. I'm sure bringing that forth to the parents and to everyone will be keeping a close eye on the community and in one respect, the this. It is a pilot project, a three-year pilot teacher support obviously. The parents project, that we will be keeping a close were very concerned in terms of how it eye on. I know it's most likely a longer is that they have to maybe fill in the time term that we'll see the outcomes of this, that, you know, the need to schedule in but those are some of the concerns in terms of their daily lives and how the brought forward. needs of their children's well-being is going to be met. It was very challenging, Also, a number of concerns are students but for the most part what I heard was in high school, especially with reduced funding has to be a full commitment hours once they graduate may not be from this department, especially for JK. ready to move on to post-secondary, At the same time, we need to seriously and I'm hoping the department could mark and flag the idea that we need assure us that that won't affect our more teachers and more resources for grade 12 students moving forward. Also, schools. That, for me, was what stood the department did make some changes out very clear. We need to make it a to JK, junior kindergarten. In the last priority as we close off the chapter on year, it was working well. It was optional this and moving forward. I look forward to the communities to offer junior to the other debates and discussions kindergarten. Some of us MLAs here that might follow from my colleagues for have Aboriginal Head Start programs that. Mahsi. that were successful for over 20 years in our communities. Now they're CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank competing with junior kindergarten. you, Mr. Nadli. Next, I have Mr. Blake. It is a very difficult position that they are MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just being put in, themselves, having to a few remarks here. As my colleague scale back, whether it is staffing. Also, said with the social committee, we were the funding that they receive is based on pretty much tasked with consulting with the attendance that they have, which the communities here. It's a very difficult has gone down because some students position we were put in. Many of the are attending junior kindergarten, students weren't aware of everything whether it is in the morning or afternoon. that was being proposed. I think that's That was also brought up. What we are one important part to emphasize on told is junior kindergarten is now because the parent should have known competing with Aboriginal Head Start, about this before it was even agreed to. and for sure, junior kindergarten is going May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 68 to win. Those are all brought to our in these smaller communities, and the attention, and I know the schools have indicators are there to say there is some been trained to work with the Aboriginal trouble here. We have got minimal Head Start programs, whether it is junior graduation rates, lower than national kindergarten in the afternoons and Head averages. Those are indicators that Start in the morning, and that was something is not working, which results working well. I am hoping in the future into a joint effort and a joint challenge by here that these programs could work the parent community and the teachers. jointly, but the bottom line is whatever The teachers need time to prepare. Not decision we make today, we are going only do they prepare for the classroom to get some backlash. The bottom line, I chores, but beyond and outside the guess, is we do need to support our regular hours, we have teachers in teachers. I am hoping in the long run probably every community that set aside that this reduction of up to 100 hours their own time to try and gather the now, it has not been clear what every youth into the area of sports. In the school has decided to do. I know some community of Fort Good Hope, we have are around 45 hours. Some are at 60 or got an excellent team of young boys 80, but if schools are not going above there that have won territorial level 80, it should have been up to 80 hours. games here in Yellowknife. I witnessed Maybe it could have been a little better that over the last couple of years here, sell. and I am quite proud of those fellows there, but equally said, recognition Moving forward, I guess, I will be should be given to the teacher also in supporting our teachers on this one, and having to work outside the classroom to I know the department has told us that encourage and provide activities there every year this will be reviewed, so if for the youth and keeping them off the things are not working out, I know we streets. could go back to what it was before. Thank you, Mr. Chair. For all those reasons, and in the classroom as well, we have a number of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank cases here that there are multiple class you, Mr. Blake. Mr. McNeely. grades within the same room. Preparing MR. MCNEELY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. our high school students to enter in I, too, would like to thank the committee post-secondary is another challenge for their efforts on this controversial there, because it is not the grade challenging issue. Like my colleague examination. It is the same examination from the Delta, coming from a small as our neighbouring provinces, but we community, it can be challenging as it is ask ourselves, well, why? I guess one of in any profession, and I feel that the reasons why is that the quality of teaching is a noble one. We had, in one delivery is really not there, because it is of the communities back home, 100 per faced with numerous remote, isolated cent turnover of the teachers. That is an challenges, and not all stakeholders are indicator. A school is no good without on site and facing those challenges at any staff within. the community level. Those are my short comments, Mr. Chair. Thank you. We are faced with a number of other obstacles to attract high quality teachers May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 69

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank you, Mr. McNeely. All Members from you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. that side of the House had a chance to comment. I see no further general HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, comments. We will proceed to a clause- Mr. Chair. We do our fund our schools by-clause review of the bill, deferring the at over $155 million in the 2017-2018 bill number and title until after school year. One in particular such is consideration of the clauses. Please inclusive schooling, which is $26.5 turn to page 1 of the bill. I will call out million. Some of these funding formulas each clause. If you agree, please we are actually funding over the above respond with an "agreed." Clause 1. legislated values, and as he mentioned with the formula funding, he has SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. recognized that some of them include junior kindergarten; however, some do CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): include kindergarten. We are looking at Clause 2. reviewing some of these funding SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. formulas, and appreciate that the Member has brought that to our CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Mr. attention. We would just let the Member O'Reilly. know that we are looking at some of the MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just reviews of the formula funding. so I am clear on the process here, are CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank we allowed to ask questions about the you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. subject matter of these clauses? Is this the appropriate time? I see the clerk MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. In shaking their head. Okay. the last week and a half, I have met with the Yellowknife Catholic Schools, the This is the part of the bill that deals with Yellowknife District No. 1 board and junior kindergarten. Late yesterday, the CSFTNO, all of the Yellowknife boards, Minister sent this document to the and each one of them has raised this Standing Committee on Social issue with me about how JK is not fully Development, which I have got a copy funded. We have got the evidence now. of as well. It is the 2017-2018 school The Minister says that they are looking funding framework. In this, there are sort at changing some of these formulas. of different formulas for different aspects When is that going to happen, and will it of school funding. There is happen in time for the 2017-2018 school administration, inclusive schooling, year? Thank you, Mr. Chair. Aboriginal programming. There is a number of them in here. Some of these CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank formulas start with kindergarten. Some you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. of them have been changed to include HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, junior kindergarten. Can the Minister Mr. Chair. We have committed to fully provide some rationale as to why some funding junior kindergarten, as we have formulas include junior kindergarten and said on many occasions. With the why some were left at kindergarten? funding formulas, that is something that Thanks, Mr. Chair. we constantly review. Like anything May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 70 else, our policies, in terms of the would be put into school buses for those concerns that were brought up in terms children who would require them. That is of fully funding junior kindergarten, we still something that we are working with still don't know the full numbers, so we education authorities on. are still working with our education authorities. Once we have those As far as for these other amounts of education authorities, we will look at funding, as the Minister has already going through the appropriate suggested, this upcoming school year, supplementary budgetary process. $155 million will be distributed among Thank you, Mr. Chair. the education authorities to support JK to grade 12 education. Out of that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank amount, $26.5 million has been you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. allocated for inclusive schooling. This current school year is the first year of a MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I three-year phased-in approach for the appreciate the response from the new inclusive schooling directive. With Minister. Can the Minister tell me: does that, new funding and accountability the department have projections right methods are a model that is being used. now of the number of junior kindergarten Over the next few years, we will see if students that they expect across the that is the appropriate amount for the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. support of inclusive schooling. Thank Chair. you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. you, Ms. Mueller. Minister Moses. HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't have the details. I will Mr. Chair. As we continue to work with go to my assistant deputy minister, education authorities and families please. Thank you. continue to look at enrolling four-year- CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank olds into the junior kindergarten you, Minister Moses. Ms. Mueller. program, we will have a better stance, after this initial setup, on enrollments. I MS. MUELLER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. can provide the Member with those Yes, we have an approximate number of numbers as we get them. Thank you. students that we believe are going to be in junior kindergarten for the upcoming CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank 2017-2018 school year. As a result of you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. that, for example, for transportation MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. costs for junior kindergarten students, That was a very long answer to a simple based on that estimated amount that question, but I have one simple question was included in the transportation to ask the Minister: I am looking for a funding, that was given to education commitment from him to prepare cost authorities. What we are still trying to estimates, using these formulae, to determine and work with education change the ones that start at authorities on is the cost of the kindergarten, change them to JK, and additional booster seats or seatbelts that tell me, using their JK student May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 71 projections, how much extra it is going CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank to cost to fully fund JK? Will the Minister you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. commit to providing Regular MLAs with that information? Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I recognize that the Minister is under no CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank obligation to actually respond to the you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. questions, but I don't know how to make it any clearer. The formulae that are in HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you. here that start with kindergarten: can the Members did receive the most up-to- Minister change that to JK, plug in the date, most current funding formulae that projections that he has, and give us the we have for how we fund our schools. cost estimates, what those calculations We can take a look at the ones that actually are? Can the Minister commit to pertain to junior kindergarten, and then do that? Thank you, Mr. Chair. look at adjusting those. Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I Mr. Chair. When we look at am not sure that actually responded to implementing the 12 to 1 ratio right now the question. I am wondering: can I get on junior kindergarten, that is increasing the commitment from the Minister of the the amount of dollars that are already department to plug in their projections of going to the schools at, I believe, about JK students and run them through these $1.5 million. The formula funding we will formulae, where the formulae start at have to take back to the department and kindergarten, add in JK, and provide look at whether it is going to impact how those cost estimates for the additional we fund the, sorry, that is $1.8 million for funding that would be required to fully the upcoming school year, and those fund JK? Is the Minister committed to numbers we can actually start to get as provide that information? Thank you, Mr. we start seeing enrollment rates coming Chair. through. We will definitely take it back to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. McNeely): Thank the departments and look at those. you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister Moses. Thank you. HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank Mr. Chair. When we did commit to fully you, Minister Moses. Time has expired. funding junior kindergarten, we did base If you would like, I can put your name those on projected four-year-olds from back on. Thank you. Next, we have Mr. the previous year, and we already are Simpson. committing to the 12 to 1 ratio of how we MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. fund junior kindergarten. Those To clause 2. From Hay River, there has numbers were put in for when we said been lots of talk of junior kindergarten we were going to be fully funding JK, ever since the Minister was just a lowly and that announcement was made Regular Member in social programs. during the budget address. Thank you. Some people in Hay River are philosophically opposed to junior May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 72 kindergarten, for whatever reason. They and early childhood development, and don't think children should be in school. those discussions would have to take Some people are unsupportive of the place, should that happen, and also idea of early childhood education. I feel discussions taken back to my Cabinet that we already have the facilities colleagues to find a solution. But I just needed in Hay River. While Hay River want to assure the Member that we are might be equipped to educate our four- committed to providing early childhood year-olds, I am aware that other programs throughout the Northwest communities aren't. My first question to Territories, and junior kindergarten is the Minister is: if this clause is struck out one of those areas that we can or if this bill does not pass, what implement it. We do have 12 happens to junior kindergarten communities in the Northwest Territories henceforth? Does the department that currently do not have any daycares continue to pursue this initiative? Is it or day homes, and it is something that going to attempt to coerce schools to we see as a positive, moving forward, run junior kindergarten programs? Is it providing those to families that do need going to offer to fund junior kindergarten the development programs for their programs? What is going to happen to children entering school. Thank you, junior kindergarten if this bill is defeated Mr. Chair. or this clause is struck down? Thank you. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank you, Mr. Moses. Mr. Simpson. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses. MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just to clarify, the department's position HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, is that, if Bill 16 is defeated, it will Mr. Chair. First and foremost, this continue to fully fund, in its own words, government has set out a mandate in junior kindergarten in the Northwest the 18th Legislative Assembly to provide Territories; is that correct? Thank you, early childhood programs throughout the Mr. Chair. NWT. This will, however, significantly change how we roll out junior CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank kindergarten to our communities. All you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses. education authorities are well into their HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, implementation efforts into junior Mr. Chair. As I mentioned, we are kindergarten and making it a reality in mandated to run early childhood every school come this academic year, programs, according to this bill and this in 201718. The 20 communities that specific program. Those discussions currently run junior kindergartens have would have to be made afterwards, but, been doing it very well, and it has been as I said, this government is mandated, received there very well and are highly it is a priority of the 18th Legislative successful. Assembly to provide early childhood I can't make really definite comments to programs throughout the Northwest the Member's questions, but it is Territories, and I do believe Members, mandated by this 18th Assembly that we with the passion that they have, do provide early childhood programming understand the value of some of these programs going in our communities and May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 73 appreciate the support from the general a government, we are committed to comments that were made around the providing early childhood programs. We room earlier. At the end of the day and developed an Early Childhood much like it said in the report from Development Framework and Action committee, regardless of the outcome, Plan in collaboration with the both sides want to do what is in the best Department of Health and Social interests of the child, and I strongly Services. We are working with schools, believe that. Otherwise, it would not education bodies, to address those. We have been put into the committee report. have made increases to our early Thank you, Mr. Chair. childhood program funding, and we are working with daycares and looking at CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank setting up daycares in the communities, you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson. as well, so we have done a lot of work. MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I We are going to continue to look at early just want people to understand the childhood programs as a priority during consequences if this bill or this clause is the term of this 18th Legislative defeated. I want to know what the Assembly. Thank you. alternatives are. The Minister has stated CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank that those discussions have to be had, you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson. so has the department not at all prepared itself for the possibility that this MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I bill could be defeated, or has it talked guess what I got from that is that the about what might happen if the bill is department, not hypothetically, what defeated? Because teachers have been would happen. I guess I was asking hired; some renovations, I am not sure if what were the department's plans. Has they are underway yet, but I am sure the department planned and has it come plans have been made. What would up with a plan, but I am not going to get happen, is my question, if this bill is an answer to that, so I will drop that. We defeated? Is the department going to won't know unless it is defeated, and we continue to try to push this onto school will see what rolls out, hypothetically. My boards? Does it have the power to force other question is the Minister has it onto school boards? I just want a clear promised to fund this initiative at 12 to 1, answer. Thank you, Mr. Chair. a pupilteacher ratio of 12 to 1, and I think, if you look in the schedule of the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Okay, Child Daycare Act regulations, if a Mr. Simpson. That is more hypothetical, daycare has fouryearolds in it, it needs but we will let the Minister answer if he to be staffed at 9 to 1. I know that is age would like to. Thank you. Minister zero to four, but, if a daycare only has Moses. fouryearolds in it, it is still 9 to 1, I HON. ALFRED MOSES: Yes, all I can believe, and I could be wrong. Why is a say to that question, and you said it classroom with fouryearolds only to be perfectly, Mr. Chair, that is a staffed at 12 to 1? Why is there a lower hypothetical question, we do not know threshold than a daycare or day home? what the outcome of this bill is going to Thank you, Mr. Chair. be at the end of today, but I can let the Member and the Members know that, as May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 74

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank they are eligible to attend. You know, in you, Mr. Simpson. Minister Moses. some cases, some of the students that are going to junior kindergarten are still HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, in Pampers. It was a huge concern that Mr. Chair. As previously stated when they were not, when they went to school this question has come up in previous to become a teacher, they did not really committee meetings and public plan to be having to change Pampers in hearings, at the 12 to 1 ratio and the the early grades, so I am hoping that as fouryearolds in the school, in the school we move forward that there is a lot of building they will have access to other training, whether it is over the summer resources in the school, school support as they prepare for next year, just so all teams, counsellors, EAs, principals, so the staff are prepared and we have they will have more resources in the assistants coming on so that they get all school system. Thank you. the proper early childhood training that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank they need to be dealing with this as we you, Minister Moses. Mr. Simpson. move forward. Thank you. MR. SIMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank have talked to the people in the schools, you, Mr. Blake. Minister. and they do not buy that answer. They HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you. I do not think that is an acceptable will go to my assistant deputy minister to answer, and that is why I brought it up, answer that one. Thank you. because I was looking for an answer that I could bring back to my CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank constituents that they could at least you. Ms. Mueller. respect. I will just leave it there for now. Continue on. Thank you to the Minister MS. MUELLER: Thank you, Mr. Chair. It for his answers. is actually very common for even kindergarten children who are five years CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Blake): Thank old to have accidents in school, and so you, Mr. Simpson. Questions on clause this is something that is just a fact that a 2. lot of our primary teachers, elementary teachers, do have to deal with for CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Next, kindergarten, for fiveyearolds and even we have Mr. Blake. into grade 1. But what is found is MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. We children, when they are with other will just keep going back and forth all children who are not experiencing that, night here. I wanted to bring up a little are not in diapers and are toilettrained, concern that one of my constituents is that very quickly the majority of brought up last year. His partner was children also want to be toilettrained and actually working in junior kindergarten it just naturally happens because they last year, and they are really concerned want to. They see their peers not having that they were not really expecting to to be in the situation of diapers, so that have to deal with because, from what I is actually something that happens. understand, let's say a threeyearold who The other thing, we have developed is turning four in, say, December, then information both for parents' information May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 75 sheets, both for the parents and for the through the 2017 school funding teachers as well, through our JK teacher framework. I have identified the specific training that just took place a few weeks formulas that do not include junior ago and will happen again in kindergarten and they are as follows: September. This is a topic that is discussed, and a lot of solutions are Administration given to the teacher as different i. Administration staffing strategies to work with the parents. iii. District education authority O and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank M you, Ms. Mueller. Mr. Blake. Territorial schools MR. BLAKE: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just another thing, I have received some iii. School support consultants concerns that it is a little too early for iv. School counselling four-year-olds to be going to school, but I know the research has shown that v. School secretaries between three to five years old is the vi. Custodians best time to actually start preparing them for when they get into kindergarten Inclusive schooling and grade 1. I am hoping that the parents and grandparents will see the iv. Support assistance advantages of junior kindergarten as we vi. Staff development move forward, just so the students are well-prepared once they get into vii. Specialized learning materials, kindergarten and grade 1. I have seen assistive technologies the benefits of my child going to the pilot x. Healing and counselling project in Tsiigehtchic when it first began. Just more of a comment. Thank Aboriginal Language and Cultural you. Programs CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank i. Aboriginal language O and M you, Mr. Blake. Would the Minister like ii. Education assistance and to respond? Aboriginal language specialists HON. ALFRED MOSES: Yes. I just Those are the formulas that do not want to emphasize again that the rollout include junior kindergarten students. of junior kindergarten is still optional for Can the Minister commit to using his parents to enrol their four-year-olds into projections of JK students, plugging the program. It is still optional. Thank them into those formulas, and telling us you. what the additional incremental costs CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank would be? Thank you, Mr. Chair. you, Minister. Clause 2. Mr. O'Reilly. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I will you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister. try this one more time. I will try to make HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, it as easy as I can. I went quickly Mr. Chair. Under the Education Act, it May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 76 requires that, when providing operation how long taking a look at it is going to and maintenance funds to education take? Is this something that his bodies, the Department of Culture, department is prepared to give us in a Education and Employment must allow week or two, or how long would it take for a student ratio of 16 to 1. Funding for to have the work done? I think it is inclusive schooling supports equals to plugging a few numbers into some 15 per cent of all operations and formulas and getting calculations out the maintenance funds provided in a other end and comparing it to what it financial year. would be without JK. Thank you, Mr. Chair. In terms of inclusive schooling, we do add our students. There is a good CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank chance that we will still be above the you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister. legislated levels, and adding junior kindergarten, we will still be around HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, somewhere like 13.1 or 13.4, so we will Mr. Chair. What I can commit to is that still be overfunding moving forward. We we will work with our education could look at it. We are still going to authorities, as we have created an have funds that are not going to reach accountability framework in reporting for the legislated levels on how we fund the our education authorities on how they operating and maintenance of our spend their dollars for the 2017-2018 education bodies. Thank you, Mr. Chair. school year, and get those exact figures as we move forward. Right now, we are CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank still looking at how many numbers we you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly. are going to get, but we can commit to working with our education authorities MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I and getting those exact numbers and think I heard "look at it" at the end there. providing those reports as we do every Is the Minister committing to do the work year. Thank you, Mr. Chair. and providing us with the information? Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Minister. MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Clearly the Minister is not going to HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, answer this the way that I want him to. Mr. Chair. As I said, we will take a look He is not going to do the work. I will at it. When we do get the funds back, it have to find another avenue. Perhaps a is still going to be under, but we fund the written question will be the proper way ratio of 16 to 1. With the inclusive to do this because he is just not schooling, we will still be funding above cooperating, and it is quite what we fund for inclusive schooling. disappointing. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. Clause 2. you, Minister. Mr. O'Reilly. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Does the Minister have any sense of May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 77

CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank subsequent evaluation of structured pilot you, committee. Clause 3. projects. These pilot projects would include a focus on redirecting up to 100 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. instructional hours per school year." End CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank of the section that I am quoting there. you, committee. Clause 4. Ms. Green. Mr. Chair, this is not what happened. We, as a group of MLAs, were not given COMMITTEE MOTION 104-18(2): a range of options. We were given one BILL 16, AN ACT TO AMEND THE option, which is Bill 16, the bill in front of EDUCATION ACT – us. What we learned through this AMENDMENTS TO CLAUSE 4(B) process is that this initiative does not (RE: INCREASE TO GRADES 9- come from the education renewal 12 HOURS OF INSTRUCTION TO initiative. In fact, it is more likely that it 1000 HOURS), came out of negotiations, and that it was DEFEATED an add-on to satisfy legitimate, and I am MS. GREEN: Mr. Chair, I would like to going to repeat that, legitimate concerns propose a motion to amend clause 4(b), teachers have about their own wellness. and I believe that the text will be We, of course, want teachers to be well distributed at this time. The amended and to be ready to do the innumerable subsection will read that paragraph 4(b) tasks which we now require of them in of Bill 16 be amended by striking out the classroom. But, as I said earlier, we 945 hours and substituting 1,000 hours. were not presented a range of options. We were given our marching orders, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank and we were expected to comply with you, Ms. Green. Motion is in order and them. being distributed. To the motion, Ms. Green. What we need here is more teachers, simply put. We, as I have already said, MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. expect a tremendous amount from our Chair, I am going to refer to the teachers. The classroom has become a memorandum of understanding that was much more complex place than it was agreed between the Northwest when I graduated almost 40 years ago. Territories Teachers' Association and Teachers are required to take into the Government of the Northwest account so many more student needs Territories on Strengthening Teacher and to accommodate them in ways that Instructional Practise, and I am going to certainly were not acknowledged in my quote a segment of the MOU here. It era, and that is not a bad thing, but says, and I quote, "During the life of this there is a limit to what they can do. I collective agreement, the association want to say that we have had a and the employer agree to work tremendous amount of input from the together to explore a range of evidence- teachers on the student instructional based possibilities that may have a practice. I would like to correct the positive impact on teacher effectiveness record in saying that there were 27 and improved student outcomes. This submissions rather than 230 formal could include changes to the Education submissions on this bill, but I also have Act and the implementation and to say that I received at least as many May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 78 personal e-mails from both teachers and same number of instructional hours as parents on this issue, and I know that children in Alberta. My proposal is to many of my colleagues did as well. The reduce the instructional hours, not by people who were least heard from were 100 but by 45. The original act says the parents, and even less than them, 1045. I am suggesting 1000. That gives the students. They seemed to be teachers an additional 45 hours to running behind afterwards because they spend on ways to improve their own did not have the communication in a health and their outcomes, and it would proactive way, whether that is the provide certainty for parents that there is responsibility of the school boards or parity with Alberta. whether that was the responsibility of the department. Now, this MOU is not the collective agreement. It is a pilot project. What the Not surprisingly, they were very department has done is just moved concerned about the parity of the high directly into legislating this change. I do school diploma granted by the NWT with not think that is the right thing to do. I that granted by Alberta as the two think that we should maintain parity with jurisdictions share a common curriculum Alberta for high school, and we should as we all know. The Yellowknife evaluate, and I know the department is Catholic Schools responded to this coming forward with an evaluation plan. question about providing certainty to Evaluate how this is rolling out before parents by passing a motion at its we reduce the hours any further. We February board meeting saying that they also need to keep in mind that Alberta is would not reduce hours at St. Patrick going through this exercise as well. High School here in Yellowknife lower They may also decide that they want the than 1,000 in order to maintain that change in their current mandatory parity. Their argument was that the minimums, and so that may prompt students all write the same exams, and changes further in the future. that they needed to have equal access to preparation. The comparison with Just to summarize, the intention of this Alberta is really the only one that motion is to find a middle ground matters here because we teach the between the certainty that parents told same curriculum. The comparison to us they wanted for their children's other jurisdictions in Canada is not education, and the wellness that the relevant. When the department came to teachers' said that they need in order to brief the standing committee on this bill find their work satisfying, and the in February, the deputy minister outcomes for their students satisfying as confirmed that parity was an important well. For that reason, I am putting issue, and she pledged that it would be forward this motion. I have already had in place. In an attempt to find a middle significant consultation on this motion ground between ensuring that teachers with my colleagues. It is my are not only well, but they have the time understanding that they will not be to collaborate and to engage in supporting it, but I think it is important professional development, and that that we acknowledge that we also heard parents have the certainty that their from parents that they have this issue, children in high school will receive the that it is a valid issue, that we have heard them, and in the case of this May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 79 motion by me, that I support them in the English 30-1 and 30-2, and that is wanting to have this standard of the same. That is what we have to education for their children. Those are require for it. At this point in time, I my comments, Mr. Chair. understand. I have heard from the parents. I have heard from the teachers. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank I have heard. I have gone out. I have you, Ms. Green. To the motion, Mr. looked at it, and unfortunately, I cannot Thompson. support this bill, and I will be voting MR. THOMPSON: Sorry, to me, or to against it. Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Minister Moses? Sorry, confusion here. amendment, sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): To the motion, Mr. Thompson. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Thompson. To the motion, Mr. MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. Testart. Chair. When we looked at this motion and looked at it, I went out and did some MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I research. I talked to a number of people would just like to thank my Honourable including Mr. Oliver and some of the friend, the member for Nahendeh, for people on the committee. Basically, laying out some of these considerations. from my understanding in talking with I, too, have consulted with some people the people there is that it is a minimum on this issue. The crux of it is, the NWT of 945, but a majority, except for maybe students graduate with an NWT senior one school presently has over 1000 secondary diploma, and not an Alberta hours in senior high from 10 to 12. This education diploma; and although there group, this committee is looking at it and are some course equivalencies through saying that there is a minimum 945. the NWT senior secondary diploma such as the Alberta 30-1 or 30-2 As my friend from Yellowknife Centre language arts course, ultimately, the talked about, we do need more NWT's diploma is standalone. teachers. I love what Alberta has done. Universities do not require 1,000 hours They have taken it and put 907 hours when they are considering the NWT's but they still have their instructional senior secondary diploma. Whether an hours there, so that means there has to NWT student has 1,000 hours of be more teachers in there. instruction per year for grades 10 to 12 Unfortunately, that was not part of the has nothing to do with whether or not bill. That was not part of what we were they will be accepted to post-secondary trying to get at. The comments about the institutions. standards, our education system, we do not require hours. It is course load. You I appreciate where the mover is coming actually don't even have to graduate to from, and she clearly laid out her case attend university. You need to have the for why compromise is preferable to equivalence of the courses to attend something imperfect, however, in this which basically means that if you have case, I think the diploma speaks for the courses and the marks, and you itself, and how those diplomas are may be entered into the program if considered by post-secondary accepted. The one big requirement is institutions, and as a result, I will not be May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 80 supporting this amendment. Thank you same concerns from parents that she very much, Mr. Chair. has. I think this was an attempt to try to find some middle ground or some kind CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank of a compromise here and ensure you, Mr. Testart. To the motion. Minister Alberta equivalency and I commend her Moses. for bringing it forward. It's very important HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, that the public hear the debate and Mr. Chair. Thank you to the Member for discussion around this matter because bringing forward this proposed it's still a live concern with many amendment. As Minister responsible for parents. I can agree with my colleague Education, I believe that the NWT from Yellowknife Centre to a certain superintendents, principals, and point. She said many of the same things teachers know their students best. They that I said in my opening remarks on the want their students to be successful as bill itself that the change in instructional do all of us here in this House and to hours was not found in the education have a variety of options available to renewal. This was driven by the fiscal them upon completion of their high strategy of Cabinet, the compromise school program. that was reached at the negotiating table, and I believe we need to get back Schools will schedule the appropriate to the education renewal initiative as the hours of instructions that they believe way of bringing forward further change their students require to successfully to our educational system. complete their coursework. I think it is important for all Members to remember I agree that we need to invest more in that the proposed 945 hours of our school system. Unfortunately, this instruction represents the minimum bill has only given us one way of dealing hours of instruction, not the maximum with the issue of teachers being hours of instruction. Therefore, schools overworked and that's reducing will still be able to schedule more than instructional hours. I guess I can 945 hours if they feel it best meets the vaguely remember back to my time in needs of their students. Mr. Chair, the 1970s when I applied for university. schools will inevitably make the best The thing that you submit when you decisions for scheduling the appropriate want to get into colleague and university hours of instruction for their students to is your transcript, the courses you took, require successful completion of their and the marks that you got in them. high school programs. Therefore, That's the basis on which universities Cabinet is not in a position to support and colleges accept students. There's this motion before us. Thank you, Mr. nothing in there about instructional Chair. hours. I'm not convinced that this amendment will change in any way the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank ability of our students to gain entry into you, Minister Moses. Mr. O'Reilly. universities or colleges. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. First The last thing, I guess, I wish to say is off, I'd like to thank my colleague from that as I understand it, the Alberta Yellowknife Centre for bringing forward system – their high school level there – the motion. I think I heard many of the instructional hours are in a state of flux May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 81 themselves. I think it's very difficult to requested a recorded vote. To all those specify what exactly Alberta equivalency in favour, please stand. is at this point in time let alone probably any point in time. For those reasons, I CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): don't think I can support – I will not be Ms. Green. supporting the motion but I do sincerely CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All thank my colleague for bringing this those opposed, please stand. matter forward for the debate and discussion on the floor today. Thank CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. Moses, Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank McLeod - Yellowknife South, Mr. you, Mr. O'Reilly. To the motion. Seeing McLeod - Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. no further comments, I will turn to Ms. Schumann, Mr. Sebert, Mr. Blake, Mr. Green to close debate on this motion. McNeely, Mr. Vanthuyne, Mr. Testart, Ms. Green. Mr. Thompson, Mr. O' Reilly. MS. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Of CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All course, when one applies to university, those abstaining, please stand. The nobody is interested in how many hours results of the recorded vote are one in you spend in a classroom. What they're favour; 15 opposed; zero abstentions. interested in is what your marks are and The motion is defeated. I continue to believe that in order for NWT students to be competitive in ---Defeated departmental exams and have the best Clause 4. Mr. Thompson. chance to compete with Alberta students for post-secondary education COMMITTEE MOTION 105-18(2): that they need the mandatory minimum BILL 16, AN ACT TO AMEND THE instructional hours in high school to be EDUCATION ACT, AMENDMENT set at 1,000. TO CLAUSE 4 (RE: MANDATORY The last thing I want today to reflect on REVIEW OF HOURS OF is that it is a mystery to me and has INSTRUCTION AFTER THREE been for many months here that the YEARS BY THE LEGISLATIVE department is adamant that every ASSEMBLY), school have JK and it be uniform in DEFEATED every school, but when it comes to MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. mandatory minimum instructional hours, Chair. I move that Bill 60 be amended every school can make up its own mind. by adding the following after clause 4. Is it department setting the standards or The following is added after subsection is it whimsical? This is not clear to me 126, subsection 4, subsection 5, the as a result of this debate on Bill 16. I'd Legislative Assembly or committee of like to request a recorded vote. the Legislative Assembly designated or established by it shall review the hours RECORDED VOTE of instruction prescribed under CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank subsection 4 at the next sitting following you, Ms. Green. The Member has July 1, 2020. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 82

Subsection 6, the review shall include Finally, through this whole process, the an examination of the hours of the reviewing committee may make formal instruction in effect of those hours of recommendations to the government instruction on students and teachers coming out of the review. In other and may include any recommendations words, we'll make formal reviews. It for change to the hours of instruction. won't be a tabled document. This is the reason the committee moved forward. Subsection 7, the Minister shall provide As we said previously, we have talked to a reasonable assistance to the everybody and this is something that we Legislative Assembly or committee of feel would be a good amendment to the that it is designated or established for bill to make it more operational, the purpose of this section. Thank you, functional, and, I guess, a good piece of Mr. Chair. legislation. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. Thompson. There's a motion on you, Mr. Thompson. To the motion. Mr. the floor. The motion has been O'Reilly. distributed and is in order. To the motion. Mr. Thompson. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I will be supporting this amendment to the MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. bill. If you look at the memorandum of Chair. As I said previously, I did contact understanding, this change in a number of people in the union and in instructional hours was clearly the department and spoke about this. characterized as a pilot project, which The union agrees. We need to do an means that it is going to be evaluated at evaluation and move forward and so the end of it. This was not meant to be a has the department talked about their permanent change necessarily, but the evaluation. What committee has done is way the bill was drafted, this was going remodeled our – modeled after the to be a permanent change in statuary requirement to review the instructional hours. We had this drawn Official Language Act, established to our attention by some parents. I options to formally engage a committee, noticed it when I first read the bill. This the Legislative Assembly in reviewing of is a permanent change. Where is the its items or significant changed interest. review of this? We also picked the date of saying we st I believe that this amendment to make wanted the sitting as of July 1 , which the mandatory review is completely normally will be September or October consistent with the pilot project nature of sitting, so this will be reviewed at that the change in instructional hours. The time. Review of the bill or this issue of evaluation reporting of the amendment would need to cover hours changes in instructional hours and of instruction and their effects on the student outcomes and teacher wellness students' achievements and its teachers has been a source of concern for while we're looking at how it's impacting parents and MLAs. While there is not just the teachers but also the greater clarity than when we started the students, seeing how it works on it. review of this bill, I do not feel confident or comfortable leaving such a review in May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 83 the control of the Minister or his confusion leading up to this place. department. I am also concerned about Although Honourable Members may our ability to actually measure have a better handle on it as anyone meaningful changes in teacher wellness listening to the debate today can clearly and student outcomes on an annual hear, there are still many unanswered basis or even after three years, questions and many concerns raised by something other jurisdictions do not both parents and teachers. This seem to be able to do. amendment will allow for that independent oversight that would go Given the very poor communications alongside the internal department from the Minister and his department evaluation, and I think it is an excellent around these changes, the evaluation measure to allow both the department to should be done by an independent party do its work and for the Legislative or a standing committee of this Assembly to ensure that this pilot project Assembly, while recognizing that the is meeting the needs of both teachers Minister will make the final decisions at and students. For that reason, I support the end of the day, and I am sure he it. Thank you. would consult with it Northwest Territories Teachers' Association and CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank the superintendents. you, Mr. Testart. Minister Moses. I also want to speak to the scope of the HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, review that is suggested in this Mr. Chair, and thank you to the Member amendment. The scope of the review is for bringing forward the proposed focused on student achievement, which amendments. I also believe that a we have heard is the main purpose of detailed thorough evaluation of the STIP this portion of the bill, and teacher pilot project is critical to ensuring it is wellness. I think that sets out the scope successful in achieving our goals of of the evaluation, the review that would improved students outcomes by be carried out, perfectly clear. That providing teachers with time to focus on would be done by an independent party, developing their instructional practices. by a standing committee. I support that This is why I publicly committed to share as well. I will be voting in support of this the evaluation framework with Standing amendment. I believe this was a Committee on Social Development reasonable compromise that was put before the end of the school year and to forward by the standing committee. I continue working with the committee heard most of their deliberations and over the source of the three-year pilot. discussion on this, and I strongly support this. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have also committed to providing regular public updates on the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank implementation, monitoring, and you, Mr. O'Reilly. Next, Mr. Testart. outcomes of STIP. This evaluation will not be conducted by the Department on MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I its own. Instead, it will be jointly think it is more than reasonable to have conducted by the STIP committee made an expectation of independent oversight up of residents from the NWT over the pilot project by the Legislative Superintendents' Association, the NWT Assembly after there has been so much May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 84

Teachers' Association, and the forward, and I would like to request a Department of Culture, Education, and recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Employment. The STIP committee is an unprecedented collaboration between RECORDED VOTE government, school board, and the CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank teachers' association and collectively you, Mr. Thompson. A recorded vote represents the education experts of our has been requested. All those in favour, territory. please stand. As we look to go forward with CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): implementing STIP, we anticipate Mr. Thompson, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Green, having all 49 NWT schools taking part Mr. Testart. and trialling their own unique school calendars. Already, each proposed CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All calendar has been carefully vetted by those opposed, please stand. the STIP committee before approval. We are under no illusions that all CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): calendars will be equally successful. We Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. Moses, will learn from each example, and Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. schools will actively share their success McLeod – Yellowknife South, Mr. and areas for improvement. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Schumann, Mr. Sebert, Mr. Blake, Mr. Mr. Chair, given the complexity of this McNeely, Mr. Vanthuyne. initiative and the many ways it will evolve over the next three years, I CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All strongly believe that STIP committee is those abstaining, please stand. The in the best position to review this results of the recorded vote are four in initiative, and as a result, Cabinet is not favour, 12 opposed, zero abstentions. in a position to support this motion. The motion is defeated. Thank you, Mr. Chair. ---Defeated CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Clause 4. Mr. Testart. you, Minister Moses. Seeing no one further on my list, I will return to the COMMITTEE MOTION 106-18(2): mover of the motion to close debate. Mr. BILL 16: AN ACT TO AMEND THE Thompson. EDUCATION ACT – AMENDMENT TO CLAUSE 4 (RE: MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. MANDATORY REVIEW OF Chair, and I thank the people that spoke HOURS OF INSTRUCTION to this. I stand by the committee's AFTER THREE YEARS BY THE recommendations. I think it is a good DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, compromise, as my friend from Frame CULTURE AND EMPLOYMENT), Lake has spoken about. At the end of CARRIED the day, it is about what is good for the students and the teachers. I guess, from MR. TESTART: Merci, Monsieur le our side, we are going to allow an open President. I move that Bill 16 be vote. People are going to vote as they feel fit. That is how we will move May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 85 amended by adding the following after ensure that there is a mandatory review clause 4: of this pilot project that is enshrined in legislation. It is very clear that the many 4.1. The following is added after concerns that have led us to such an subsection 126(4): extensive debate around these issues (5) The Department of Education, are well reflected once the pilot project Culture and Employment shall review has run its course. the hours of instruction prescribed under This amendment will enshrine the subsection (4) within six months process that the Minister of Education following the conclusion of the 2019- has laid out in numerous public 2020 academic year. statements into the act itself and will (6) The review shall consist of an allow both the government and the examination of the hours of instruction, committee to work together to ensure the effectiveness of the administration that the objectives of the STIP hours are and implementation of the hours of well-understood after the pilot runs its instruction, and the achievement of the course. I appreciate that the Minister objectives behind the hours of has laid out his case for working with the instruction. STIP committee, and this work will now go, if this amendment is passed, that (7) The Minister shall consult with the work will go on with full partnership with Legislative Assembly, or a committee of the standing committee. Furthermore, the Legislative Assembly designated or this amendment can be found in other established by it, in the review referred examples of legislation that this to in subsection (5). government is bound by, and is a good (8) The Minister shall table a report in way to ensure sober second thought to the Legislative Assembly detailing the major issues of important public policy. outcome of the review referred to in As we know, parents and teachers have subsection (5) a vested interest in ensuring this project is successful. For that reason, I would (a) at the sitting of the Legislative ask my colleagues, the honourable Assembly during which the report is Members of this Chamber to support completed; or this amendment moving forward. Thank you. (b) at the next sitting of the Legislative Assembly, if the Legislative Assembly is CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank not sitting when the report is completed. you, Mr. Testart. To the motion, Minister Moses. Thank you, Mr. Chair. HON. ALFRED MOSES: Thank you, CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Mr. Chair, and as stated in my previous you, Mr. Testart. There is a motion on comments, we are committed to giving the floor. The motion is in order. To the updates on the implementation, motion. Mr. Testart. monitoring the outcomes of STIP, as MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I well as continuing to work with our STIP guess we will try this again with different committee, and with the standing language. The intention here is to committee on social programs, to give May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 86 them updates as well. The motion that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank was brought before us, currently in front you, Mr. Vanthuyne. To the motion. Mr. of us here, is one that Cabinet can O'Reilly. support, and we will also be supporting this motion. Thank you, Mr. Chair. MR. O'REILLY: Thanks, Mr. Chair. I think it's important to understand that CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank this only came in response to the work you, Mr. Moses. I see no further of the standing committee, and this was comments. Oh, Mr. Vanthuyne. To the a hard fought battle to try to get a motion. mandatory review period. I guess the other thing I want to mention, I think this MR. VANTHUYNE: Thank you, Mr. is a poor cousin compared to the Chair, and yes, I think that this sort of previous amendment but I cannot speak reaffirms what the department has been to that again. There are two areas that articulating all along, and something that concern me greatly with the amendment I believe, and that is that ultimately, the that is proposed. The first is this idea of Department of Education is wholly consulting with the committee. I think I responsible for education in the NWT; have been here for almost, getting close and the language in this amendment to two years, and kind of consultation I ties the department to that responsibility, have seen from my Cabinet colleagues and still allows us and Regular Members with standing committees has left a lot to have a fairly strong level of, call it, to be desired. I am very concerned contribution that will hold the department about what sort of consultation the to account. Minister, it is probably going to be the The language now starts to include the Minister over there, would undertake Department of Education, Culture and with the standing committee. If the Employment. It refers to the Minister, Minister wishes to speak to that, I would and that he shall consult with a appreciate hearing from him on what committee of the Legislative Assembly, sort of consultation, if he was to and it also indicates that the Minister continue, you would expect with the shall table a report detailing the standing committee as part of this outcomes of the review. This is the kind review. That is one of my major of amendment that I can find myself in concerns. support of. Frankly, with all due respect, The second one is the scope of the the prior amendment that was trying to review that is proposed in this kind of attain the same objectives, really amendment. The scope of the review didn't put the department out there for is…I must read this out because I am being accountable. It was putting, in my not sure everybody has really read this. view, the standing committee or the "The effectiveness of the administration Legislative Assembly committee of and implementation of the hours of whatever sort to be more accountable instruction." What does that got to do on the review. I believe now that we are with student outcomes or teacher putting that onus back on the wellness? And then, "the achievement Department of Education where it ought of the objectives behind the hours of to be, and I will be in support of the instruction," I'm not clear what the amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chair. objectives are right from the start. There May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 87 seems to be a shifting target here. If the The current Minister is not really in a Minister can convince me that the position to speak to this amendment as objectives of this review includes it will take place well after the term of student achievement and teacher this Assembly. I have great hopes and wellness, I would much appreciate that. expectations that the Minister at that I see the five bullets from his statement time in the future, gazing in my crystal introducing the bill today here. We have ball, will follow the aspirations of this got teacher satisfaction. Teacher human amendment very clearly, and work resource stats such as sick days. Use of diligently with the standing committee as professional development time, student designated by the Legislative Assembly attendance and student course to complete this review to the completions. I am looking for something satisfaction of all parties. I believe a bit more holistic like student strongly that this is an effective outcomes. Are more students passing compromise that will bring legislative than before? Are they getting better oversight to this very important issue of grades and so on? Those are far more, I ensuring that this project achieves its think, important indicators of student desired results. It improves teacher achievement. I am looking for some wellness, and gives our teachers the reassurance from the Minister that the flexibility they need to educate the next scope of the review is actually going to generation of Northerners. I would like deal with student achievement and to ask for a recorded vote. Thank you, student wellness, and I don't get that Mr. Chair. from what I see in the amendment before us. Thanks, Mr. Chair. RECORDED VOTE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, Mr. O'Reilly. I will remind you that you, Mr. Testart. The Member has the amendment was moved by Mr. requested a recorded vote. All those in Testart, not by the Minister, and the favour, please stand. Minister is on the witness seat and CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): under no responsibility, or under no Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mr. O'Reilly, obligation to answer questions. I see no Ms. Green, Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, further comments or questions. I will Mr. Moses, Ms. Cochrane, Mr. return to the mover to close debate. Mr. Abernethy, Mr. McLeod – Yellowknife Testart. South, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes, MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Schumann, Mr. Sebert, Mr. Blake, As with all things we do in this great Mr. McNeely, Mr. Vanthuyne. institution of democracy, compromise is CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All essential to ensuring we make good those opposed, please stand. All those decisions for our people, and I am very abstaining, please stand. thankful to have the support of Cabinet on this amendment. I am also thankful The result of the recorded vote are 16 in to the honourable Member for favour; zero opposed; and zero Yellowknife North for showing his abstentions. support, and to the concerns raised by the honourable Member for Frame Lake. ---Carried May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 88

Clause 4 as amended. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Mr. Thompson. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank COMMITTEE MOTION 107-18(2): you, committee. Clause 5. COMPREHENSIVE RESPONSE TO COMMITTEE REPORT 10- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. 18(2) WITHIN 120 DAYS, CARRIED CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you, committee. Committee, to the bill MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. as a whole as amended. Does Chair. I guess it has been a very long committee agree that Bill 16, An Act to day. Mr. Chair, I move that this Amend the Education Act as amended Assembly recommend that the is now ready for third reading? government provide a comprehensive response to this report and its SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. recommended actions within 120 days. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Bill 16 Thank you, Mr. Chair. is now ready for third reading. Does CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank committee agree that this concludes our you, Mr. Thompson. There is a motion consideration of Bill 16, An Act to on the floor. It is being distributed. To Amend to the Education Act as the motion. Mr. Thompson. amended? MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. Chair. I will request a recorded vote. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Thank you. you, committee. Minister, thank you to CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank you and your witnesses. Sergeant-at- you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. O'Reilly. Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Minister, you may MR. O'REILLY: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I take your seat. just want to go on record, again commending the committee for its very Committee, we have agreed to consider hard work on this report. I fully support Committee Report 10-18(2), Report on the recommended actions as well as the the Review of Bill 16, An Act to Amend recommendation for the motion. Thank the Education Act. I will go to the chair you, Mr. Chair. of the standing committee for any opening remarks. That will be the RECORDED VOTE Standing Committee on Social Development, for any opening remarks CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank he may have. Mr. Thompson, do you you, Mr. O'Reilly. To the motion. have any opening remarks? Question has been called. The Member has requested a recorded vote. All those MR. THOMPSON: Thank you, Mr. in favour, please stand. Chair. I think we have heard the report enough. I think the report stands for CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): itself, and I will just leave it at that. Mr. Thompson, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Green, Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Nadli, Mr. Nakimayak, Mr. Blake, May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 89

Mr. McNeely, Mr. Vanthuyne, Mr. MR. SPEAKER: Item 21, report of Testart. Committee of the Whole. May I have the report, Member for Hay River North? CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): All those opposed, please stand. All those 12. Report of Committee of the Whole abstaining, please stand. MR. SIMPSON: Mr. Speaker, your CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): committee has been considering the Mr. Moses, Ms. Cochrane, Mr. Minister's Statement 186-18(2), Bill 16, Abernethy, Mr. McLeod – Yellowknife An Act to Amend the Education Act, and South, Mr. McLeod – Inuvik Twin Lakes, Committee Report 10-18(2), Report on Mr. Schumann, Mr. Sebert. Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Education CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): The Act. I would like to report progress, with results of the vote are nine in favour; two motions being adopted, that zero opposed; seven abstentions. The consideration of Committee Report 10- motion is carried. 18(2) is concluded, that Bill 16 is ready for a third reading as amended and, Mr. ---Carried Speaker, I move that the report of the Does committee agree that Committee of the Whole be concurred consideration of Committee Report 10- with. Thank you. 18(2) is now concluded? MR. SPEAKER: Masi. Do we have a SOME HON. MEMBERS: Agreed. seconder? Member for Nunakput. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank ---Carried you, committee. We have concluded Masi. Item 22. Third reading of bills. consideration of Committee Report 10- Minister of Health and Social Services. 18(2), Report on the Review of Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Education Act. 13. Third Reading of Bills What is the wish of committee, Mr. Testart? BILL 18: AN ACT TO AMEND THE MR. TESTART: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I HEALTH AND move that the chair of Committee of the SOCIAL SERVICES Whole leave the chair and report PROFESSIONS ACT progress. HON. GLEN ABERNETHY: Mr. CHAIRPERSON (Mr. Simpson): Thank Speaker, I move, seconded by the you, Mr. Testart. There is a motion on honourable Member for Range Lake, the floor to report progress. The motion that Bill 18, An Act to Amend the Health is in order, non-debatable. All those in and Social Services Professions Act, be favour? All those opposed? Motion is read for the third time. Mr. Speaker, I carried. I will rise and report progress. request a recorded vote. ---Carried RECORDED VOTE MR. SPEAKER: The Member has requested a recorded vote. Motion is in May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 90 order. To the motion. Question has been 10.Replies to Commissioner's Opening called. All those in favour, please stand. Address CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): 11.Petitions Member for Great Slave, Member for Yellowknife South, Member for Inuvik 12.Reports of Standing and Special Twin Lakes, Member for Hay River Committees South, Member for Thebacha, Member 13.Reports of Committees on the for Hay River North, Member for Review of Bills Mackenzie Delta, Member for Sahtu, Member for Yellowknife North, Member 14.Tabling of Documents for Kam Lake, Member for Nahendeh, 15.Notices of Motion Member for Frame Lake, Member for Yellowknife Centre, Member for Deh 16.Notices of Motion for First Reading Cho, Member for Nunakput, Member for of Bills Inuvik Boot Lake, Member for Range 17.Motions Lake. 18.First Reading of Bills MR. SPEAKER: Masi. All those opposed, please stand. All those - Bill 28, Interpretation Act abstaining, please stand. The results of the vote are 17 in favour; zero opposed; - Bill 29, Miscellaneous Statute zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Law Amendment Act, 2017 ---Carried - Bill 30, Health Statutes Law Amendment Act (Cremation Masi. Third reading of bills. Item 23, Services) orders of the day. Mr. Clerk. 19.Second Reading of Bills 14. Orders of the Day 20.Consideration in Committee of the CLERK OF THE HOUSE (Mr. Mercer): Whole of Bills and Other Matters Orders of the day for Thursday, June 1, - Bill 15, An Act to Amend the 2017, at 1:30 p.m.: Tobacco Tax Act 1. Prayer - Bill 26, An Act to Amend the 2. Ministers' Statements Revolving Funds Act, No. 2 3. Members' Statements - Committee Report 11-18(2), Standing Committee on Rules 4. Returns to Oral Questions and Procedures Report on the Review of Standing Committee 5. Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery Public Engagement and 6. Acknowledgements Transparency 7. Oral Questions - Minister's Statement 186-18(2), Update on the A New Day 8. Written Questions program 9. Returns to Written Questions May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 91

- Tabled Document 383-18(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2017-2018 - Tabled Document 384-18(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures), No. 2, 2017-2018 21.Report of Committee of the Whole 22.Third Reading of Bills - Bill 16, An Act to Amend the Education Act 23.Orders of the Day MR. SPEAKER: Masi, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Thursday, June 1, 2017, at 1:30 p.m. ---ADJOURNMENT The House adjourned at 7:07 p.m. May 31, 2017 NORTHWEST TERRITORIES HANSARD Page 92

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