Meeting Minutes of the 802 s2
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1 Project IEEE 802.20 Working Group on Mobile Broadband Wireless Access
Title Draft Meeting Minutes, 802.20 Plenary Meeting - Session #17, Vancouver, BC, Canada, Nov 14-17, 2005
Date 2005-11-29 Submitted
Source(s) Rajat Prakash, as acting Recording Secretary for the session Email: [email protected] QUALCOMM, Incorporated 5775 Morehouse Drive San Diego, CA, 92121
Re: 802.20 Session#17
Abstract Draft of the Minutes of the Session #17;
Purpose Minutes of the Session. This document has been prepared to assist the IEEE 802.20 Working Group. It is offered as a basis for Notice discussion and is not binding on the contributing individual(s) or organization(s). The material in this document is subject to change in form and content after further study. The contributor(s) reserve(s) the right to add, amend or withdraw material contained herein. The contributor grants a free, irrevocable license to the IEEE to incorporate material contained in this Release contribution, and any modifications thereof, in the creation of an IEEE Standards publication; to copyright in the IEEE’s name any IEEE Standards publication even though it may include portions of this contribution; and at the IEEE’s sole discretion to permit others to reproduce in whole or in part the resulting IEEE Standards publication. The contributor also acknowledges and accepts that this contribution may be made public by IEEE 802.20. The contributor is familiar with IEEE patent policy, as outlined in Section 6.3 of the IEEE-SA Standards Patent Board Operations Manual
The 17th session of 802.20 was held at the Nov 2005 Plenary meeting of IEEE 802 in Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Contributions and WG documents referenced in these minutes can be found at the 802.20 website, http://www.ieee802.org/20/
See Appendix A for the overall session attendance and participation credit list.
Minutes of 802.20 Monday Nov 14, 2005
Meeting started at 1:30 pm.
Chair went over the presentation C802.20-05/81 (Chair’s opening slides for Plenary).
- Copy Right Rules - Logistics of the session. - IEEE 802 meeting conduct - Sign in procedure for the session - IEEE-SA Standards Board Bylaws on Patents in Standards - Logistics for the session - Meeting agenda
Chair stated the manual sign in books for attendance are based upon an honor system. Individuals found signing in and leaving or otherwise attempting to falsify their attendance will lose all attendance credit for the session.
Chair reviewed the proposed detail agenda. The Chair stated the times listed were for time allocation planning and the agenda items would be taken in sequence as approved.
Request from James Mollenauer for addition of fifteen minutes time to TSP discussion time. Request noted by Chair and fifteen minutes added to time for discussion in the proposed agenda.
Motion to approve the Agenda (with fifteen minutes added to time for discussion of TSP). Moved by Jim Tomcik, second by Nancy Bravin. Friendly amendment from Fran O’Brien and Jose Puthenkulam, a nonmember, to postpone voting to a later meeting. Amendment not accepted by mover.
Amendment Motion by Hassan Yaghoobi and second by James Mollenauer to take out all technology selection voting from the agenda for this session. Discussion about the motion.
Motion from Dan Gal second by Hank Eilts to have a roll call vote. 18 Yes, 46 No. Motion passes (need 25% to pass). 3 Motion of Hassan Yaghoobi fails 47 -18 after roll call vote. For results of roll call vote, please refer to Appendix B.
Request for friendly amendment by Dan Gal: After the presentations all over, have on Wednesday morning, a review of compliance of each of the proposals (1 hour per proposal). The request was declined by the mover (James Tomcik).
Motion by Dan Gal, seconded by Hassan Yaghoobi: Move to add an additional agenda item on Wednesday 8am to 9am for a completeness and compliance review with SRD and Eval. Criteria doc. Motion fails (16 yes, 46 no).
Motion by Anna Tee, second by Hank Eilts: Move to add two hours of Q&A for each proposal if needed. 14 no, 50 No. Request a Roll Call vote on the Motion of Anna Tee. 10 Yes. 50 no. Motion fails.
Motion to call the question. Moved by Dan Gal, second by Joanne Wilson. Vote on this motion. 49 yes, 9 no. Motion passes and the question is called.
Vote on the Motion to Approve the Agenda. 50 Yes, 10 no. The agenda is approved. See Appendix C for original approved agenda.
Comment from James Mollenauer about request for determining affiliation of consultants. Chair responded that definition is stated in the attendance book. It is up to each individual, consultants or otherwise, to review and sign in appropriately.
30 minute break.
Review and approval of the minutes. The chair noted that the list of attendees has been reformatted and revised per comments sent in by Hank Eilts. Motion to approve minutes by Ayman Naguib, second by Nancy Bravin. Chair asked if there were any objections to the approval. Seeing no objections the minutes were approved by unanimous consent.
Chair noted that if someone has comments/objections to PARs for 11y, 16i and 22.1 groups, they should contact the Chair as comments were on Tuesday.
Chair presented updates on the membership policy of 802. Straw poll on which text is preferred Membership is lost if a person fails to meet the participation requirement of the working group at two out of the last “THREE” or “FOUR” plenary session. Straw poll in favor of “THREE”: 13, “FOUR”: 67.
Summary Presentation of “Technology Selection Process” by the Chair, as covered in Chair’s opening slides, C802.20-05/81.
Motion by Hassan Yaghoobi, seconded by Dan Gal to: postpone technology selection voting until the March 2006 Plenary to allow for additional individuals’ proposals to the working group and additional time for study/analysis of existing proposals as per PD07r1 which shows six months between issuance of Call for Proposals and the Final Selection. The chair stated that this is an agenda change of the approved agenda and therefore requires 2/3 majority. 4
Debate on the motion. Vote on the motion. Yes 16, No 44. Motion fails.
Motion by Dan Gal, second by Hassan Yaghoobi. Amendment to section 3.4.1 of the Technology Selection Process document. If the number of proposals (either TDD of FDD) is equal to or less than three, no initial selection or down selection process steps shall take place (skip steps 1 and 2). Rather, a merger between proposals shall be attempted and followed by presentations and a subsequent elimination process (step 3). The chair stated changing the TSP document requires a 2/3 majority. Yes 17, No 38. Motion failed.
Motion by Al Wieczorek second by Hassan Yaghoobi : Revise the TSP PD-10 document to add a step [Inserted prior to step 3.4] to perform and complete validation of all submitted Evaluation Calibration Reports prior to any selection voting, said validation consisting of a performance results confirmation report by all other proponents. The chair stated changing the TSP document requires a 2/3 majority. Yes 13, No 45.
Recessed until 8am Tuesday. First item for Tuesday is Rotational OFDM transmission scheme technology proposal.
Minutes of 802.20 Tuesday Nov 15, 2005
The session started at 8am. Chair passed out the attendance books and stated the manual sign in books for attendance are based upon an honor system. Individuals found signing in and leaving or otherwise attempting to falsify their attendance will lose all attendance credit for the session.
Presentation: C802.20-05/70 by T. Suzuki, H. Ishikawa and Y. Hatakawa. Chair noted that the original submission was only a document, and the proponents requested to present a Power Point document that was not part of the original submission. The group accepted the request with no objection. Questions and answers followed the presentation.
Presentation: C802.20-05/71-74 by Heesoo Lee, ETRI Technology Proposal. Presenters: Heesoo Lee, Youg-Jo Ko, Byung Jang Jeong, Jae Kyun Kwon. Questions and answers followed the presentation.
Break. 11-11:20am
Presentation: C802.20-05/80 Multi-antenna Support for Air Interface Spec. (M. Youssefmir). Chair noted that the original submission was only a document, and the proponents requested to present a Power Point document (C802.20-05/85) that was not part of the original submission. The group accepted the request with no objection. The chair noted that the document 85 is available on the website. Questions and answers followed the presentation.
Lunch break 12:30-1:20pm
Resumed at 1:20pm 5 Chair passed out the attendance books and stated the manual sign in books for attendance are based upon an honor system. Individuals found signing in and leaving or otherwise attempting to falsify their attendance will lose all attendance credit for the session.
Presentation: C802.20-05/58-62 Jim Tomcik. QFDD Technology Presentation. Presented by Jim Tomcik, Fatih Ulupinar, Alex Gorokhov, Tingfang Ji. It was noted by the chair and Jim Tomcik that Performance Report 2 for the QFDD technology proposal, not required until January, is available on the website.
During the above presentation, some discussion about whether Q&A is allowed during the presentation. Chair ruled that questions are to be asked after the presentation is over. The same process as used for the other presentations.
Break 3pm-340pm
Motion: Kazuhiro Murakami moved and Ayman Naguib seconded to amend the agenda to allow for the presentation of the BEST WINE technology proposal from 7pm-9:30pm and allow for more time for Q&A time for QTDD on Wednesday morning and finish all technology presentations today. Results: 39 yes 17 no. Motion passes.
Start of QFDD Questions and Answers.
Some attendees requested that their comments be included in the minutes.
Comments by Farooq Khan: The evaluation methodology required that the FL and RL be modeled jointly and that the latency be 10 ms. The link to system interface calibration data is not included in the proposal package. With one receive antenna, the spectral efficiency is lower than the requirement.
Comments by Anna Tee: The PA information was not turned in as part of report 1.
Presenters stated that their proposal meets all requirements.
Comment by Jim Ragsdale: The report includes only throughput and not spectral efficiency for Vehicular B.
Presenters stated the information was available to calculate the numbers.
The chair noted that we are running late for the day, and will take another hour and a half as part of Q&A.
Motion: By Hassan Yaghoobi second by James Mollenauer to amend the agenda to recess until 8am Wednesday. Motion Fails: Yes 15, No 47.
Motion: By Hassan Yaghoobi second by James Mollenauer to extend Q&A time from 45 to 120 minutes for QFDD Doc C802.20-05/69 (624 pages). Motion fails Yes 15, No 41.
Presentation: C802.20-05/63-69 Jim Tomcik - - QTDD Technology Presentation. Presented by Jim Tomcik, Fatih Ulupinar, Alex Gorokhov, Tingfang Ji. Chair noted that 6 Q&A on this presentation will be done on Wednesday morning given the agenda amendment to allow for the presentation by the BEST WINE proponents today.
Break from 6:25-7:00pm.
Presentation: C802.20-05/78-79 on BEST-WINE by R. Canchi, K. Murakami, and M. Kithara. Questions and answers followed the BEST-WINE presentation.
Statement by Jose Puthenkulam, a nonmember, requested to be included in the minutes: As per the IEEE 802 Policies & Procedure Section 7.2.4.3, sub section c) which states ‘If a standard cannot be utilized as is and the modifications or extensions to the standard are necessary, the Working Group, with the concurrence of the Executive Committee, develop these changes itself. Even in the latter case, the Working Group should seek the concurrence of the other organization by joint meetings, joint voting rights or other mechanisms on the changes being made.’ As the BEST-WINE proposal is an enhancement of an ATIS standard, before we consider it as a complete proposal, we need to request the ATIS organization if the enhancements proposed in the BEST-WINE proposal cannot be made by ATIS itself then only it can be considered as a proposal. Hence it should not be treated as a complete proposal in spite of the liaison statement from ATIS which does not state that they cannot make the changes proposed by the presenter.
Response to Jose by Mark Klerer and requested to be included in the minutes: The clause referred to in the P&P refers to an action to be taken by the working group in developing a specification. It does not prevent a member from bringing in a contribution identifying that changes in another SDOs specification are required in order to get WG support for such a change. If the WG agrees to the need for such a change, it is then that the procedure of actions implied by the P&P applies. Indeed prior to having obtained WG consensus on the need for such a change it is impossible for the WG to send a liaison expressing the need for such a change.
9:00pm Recess until 8:00am
Minutes of 802.20 Wednesday Nov 16, 2005 8:00am session resumed Chair passed out the attendance books and stated the manual sign in books for attendance are based upon an honor system. Individuals found signing in and leaving or otherwise attempting to falsify their attendance will lose all attendance credit for the session.
Question and answers on QTDD proposal. (8-9:30am time budgeted for this, as noted by the chair after the QTDD presentation on Tuesday.).
There was a question about overhead channel performance, and the presenters noted that they will address this in additional time allotted in the afternoon after the initial selection vote. 7 Motion: Moved by Hassan Yaghoobi, second by James Mollenauer, to extend the Q&A period for QFDD and QTDD for 60 minutes (amended to 120 minutes) starting at 10am on Wednesday to address questions including those in Contribution C802.20-05/91 and 83R1 and 84R1. Friendly amendment to change the timing to 120 minutes. Amendment accepted by the mover. Motion fails Yes 19, No 38.
Mover (Hassan Yaghoobi), asked for a Roll Call vote on the motion. Vote on whether to take a roll call. Yes 13, No 40. Motion fails (need 25% to pass).
Recess for 30 minutes.
Motion: Moved Lin Jiezhen, to eliminate all technology selection voting for the agenda for session 17. Chair noted that this motion is the same as an earlier motion and therefore needs a reconsideration motion. Hasson Yaghoobi requested support for reconsideration of the motion. Chair called for support of the motion from the prevailing side in the earlier vote. No support for reconsideration was seen from the prevailing side in the earlier vote, and the chair ruled that this motion is same as the earlier motion, and hence will not be considered.
Motion: Moved Lin Jiezhen second by Hassan Yaghoobi, the QFDD proposal is incomplete, specifically non-compliant with SRD and not complete per the classification. The chair pointed out that the motion requires 75% for passing, as per the Technology Selection Process document. Motion: Lin Jiezhen second by Hassan Yaghoobi, the QTDD proposal is incomplete, specifically non-compliant with SRD and not complete per the classification. Motion: Lin Jiezhen second by Hassan Yaghoobi, the BEST-WINE proposal is incomplete, specifically non-compliant with SRD and not complete per the classification.
The motions were withdrawn by the mover and the second before a vote was taken.
Vote on Initial Selection per the TSP document. Results as shown below, all proposals received more then 35% approval required for further consideration by the working group. Written ballots were distributed to voters and counted by the 2 Vice Chairs. The below are the results of the vote. 68 802.20 Working Group-Nov. Plenary Ballots Initial Selection Voting- Ballot Proposal Name Not Consider Consider Rotational OFDM Transmission Scheme 55 11 83% ETRI Technology Proposal 56 11 84% Multi-antenna Support for Air Interface Spec. 56 11 84% QFDD Technology 56 11 84% QTDD Technology 56 11 84% BEST-WINE Technology Proposal 55 12 82% 8 Recess from 11:30am to 1:00pm per the approved agenda. 1:00pm session resumed Chair passed out the attendance books and stated the manual sign in books for attendance are based upon an honor system. Individuals found signing in and leaving or otherwise attempting to falsify their attendance will lose all attendance credit for the session.
Comment from a member: The technology selection process required separate voting tracks for FDD and TDD. The ballot taken for initial selection without the two separate tracks. Chair responded that TDD and FDD are separate tracks for the elimination votes. This ballot did however have separate line items for voting.
Comment from a member: Initial selection voting should give proponents five minutes for final statements. Chair responded that all received at least 82% therefore all are still under future consideration.
Comment from Jim Tomcik: The QFDD and QTDD proposals are attempting to merge with other proposals and therefore he is making a motion to allow for merger time.
Motion: Jim Tomick moves and R. Canchi seconded, to amend the agenda to defer further technology selection elimination/confirmation voting from session 17 so that potential mergers can be developed and presented in session 18 noting that merged documents are due seven days in advance of the session presented. Results: Yes 55, No 0. Motion passes.
The Chair stated the agenda now has New Business as the next item. Therefore the Chair asked if there was any new business.
Motion: Dan Gal moves and second by Jim Mollenauer, given the expressed intent by companies to submit technology proposals at the Jan 2006 session, move to allow for additional proposal submissions for session 18 with the same call for proposal rules as for session 17. Debate on the motion: Current submitters of technology proposals spoke strongly against the motion. Their rational was that others proponents would have an unfair advantage having now seen their proposals. Also they had worked very hard to make the agreed deadline. Allowing proposal from all including those who have not participated in the group to submit proposals in later sessions was unfair.
Riku Pirhonen requested his statement be included in the minutes. Referring to comments from Jim Tomick and R. Canchi, Riku Pirhonen questioned the time schedule because as noted by JimTomcik had people working 24 hours a day on the proposals and out of the 45-50 companies who have affiliates in the group, only three contributed full proposals. A new schedule for work in this group was announced in the previous interim session and after that the group has attracted lot of new interest from experienced individuals who have not participated in the working group before. He asked the Chair how these people could now contribute.
A member commented that the schedule had not changed and all technology proposals were always due at the same time just like in other working groups. 9 The Chair responded no selection had been made and if a proposal was not acceptable then it should not receive 75% and people can also address inputs in the ballot process.
Request from Jim Molleneuer for friendly amendment to change text from “session 18” to “sessions 18 and 19”. Amendment accepted by the mover. After further debate, the mover withdrew acceptance of amendment. Results: Yes 18, No 49. Motion fails.
Motion: Moved by Anna Tee, second by Hassan Yaghoobi, to amend the agenda to include the presentations and discussions of all contributions including late contributions and questions for the technology presenters that were submitted to the IEEE 802.20 working group for session 17. The motion is put forward specifically because of the fact that an earlier motion that may cause the session to adjourn early than expected. The group can use this time for further discussions. Yes 16, No 42. Motion fails.
Under Next Meeting Planning: Chair reminded the group about early registration for Hawaii and the need to book hotel rooms now. The Chair asked if there were any other Next Meeting Planning items to cover. No other items were raised.
Motion to Adjourn Moved by Farrokh Khatibi Second by Ayman Naguib Results: Yes 45, No 10. Motion passes.
Chair reminded all that had not signed the attendance books for the PM1 time slot to come to the front and sign in. The Chair collected the attendance books and created a queue for all who needed to sign in. The Chair stated that 75% participation in the utilized time slots is required for overall session credit.
Time: 2:41 pm Session #17 is adjourned
Appendix A Attendance and Participation Credit will be added after inputs for the Executive Committee of 802 and IEEE staff.
Appendix B Roll Call Vote on: Motion: Hassan Yaghoobi, second by James Mollenauer. Remove all technology selection voting from the agenda of session 17.
Last Name First Name YES NO ABSTAIN ABSENT Alder Larry x Bajaj Rashmi x Barriac Gwen x 10 Bernstein Jeffrey x Bravin Nancy x Bussey Chris x Canchi Radhakrishna x Carneiro Edson x Carson Peter x Castell Harold P. x Chickneas Jim x Cho Juphil x Dean Chris x Dodd Donald x Dorward Lynne x Eilts Henry x Epstein Mark x Ferguson Alistair x Gal Dan x Garcia-Alis Daniel x Garg Deepshikha x Giles Arthur x Gomes Eladio x Gorodetsky Svetlana x Guo Qiang x Hou Victor x Huo David x James David S. x Jiezhen Lin x Jones Dennis x Khademi Majid x Khan Farooq x Khatibi Farrokh x Kimura Shigeru x Kitahara Minako x Klerer Mark x Knisely Douglas x Knowles Skip x Lalaguna Pablo x Lawrence Lisa x Lee Heesoo x Martynov Irina x Martynov Michael x McMillan Donald x Miyazono Max x Mollenauer James x Murakami Kazuhiro x Naguib Ayman x 11 Naidu Mullaguru x Nha Nguyen x Novick Fred x O'Brien Francis x Ping Luo x Pirhonen Riku x Pittampalli Eshwar x Poisson Sebastien x Polcari Amy x Polsgrove Jim x Prakash Rajat x Preece Rob x Pulcini Gregory x Ragsdale James x Rajkumar Ajay x Shields Judy x Shively David x Springer Warren x Staver Doug x Stone Mike x Sutivong Arak x Tee Lai-King Anna x Tomcik James x Toro Steven x Trick John x Tsui Daniel x Upton Jerry x Valls Juan Carlos x Vivanco Silvia x Wasilewski Thomas x Wieczorek Alfred x Wilson Joanne x Wu Gang x Yaghoobi Hassan x Yallapragada Rao x Youssefmir Michael x Yuda Tetsuya x Yuza Masaaki x 12
Appendix C – Approved Agenda for the start of Session 17 Proposed Detail Agenda – November 2005 Plenary, Session #17 Hyatt Regency, Vancouver, Canada AS APPROVED ON MONDAY Monday, Nov. 14, 2005 11:00AM – 12:30PM IEEE 802 Opening Plenary Monday, Nov. 14, 2005 12:30PM - 1:30PM Lunch, no Joint Wireless Opening
Monday, Nov. 14, 2005 1:30PM – 5:30PM Hyatt (B r e a k 3 : 3 0 – 4 : 0 0 P M ) - Opening Session of 802.20 1:30-2:30pm C802.20-05/81 - - IEEE IPR rules and meeting conduct - Logistics for the session - - Review of Proposed 802.20 Agenda - - Approval of Agenda including modifications - - Review and approve Sept. Minutes
- - Review Other WGs Activities
- - Update on 802.18 Activities
- 2:30-3:45pm - Review of Technology Selection Process
- - Start Proposal Presentations - -Rotational OFDM Transmission Scheme (Hiroyasu Ishikawa) 4:00-5:30pm C802.20-05/70 Monday, Nov. 14, 2005 7:30PM - 9:00PM 802 Tutorials
Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2005 8:00AM - 12:30PM Hyatt (B r e a k 1 0 : 0 0 – 1 0 : 3 0 A M ) Proposal Presentations: - ETRI Technology Presentation (Heesoo Lee) 8:00-10:30am C802.20-05/71-74 - Multi-antenna Support for Air Interface Spec. (M. Youssefmir) 11:00 -12:30pm C802.20-05/80 Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2005 1:00PM – 6:30PM Hyatt (B r e a k 3 : 3 0 – 4 : 0 0 P M )
Proposal Presentations: - QFDD Technology Presentation (Jim Tomcik) 1:00-2:30pm C802.20-05/58-62 2:30-4:00pm C802.20-05/63-67 - QTDD Technology Presentation (Jim Tomcik) C802.20-05/68-69
- BEST-WINE Technology Presentation (R. Canchi) 4:30-6:00pm C802.20-0575/79 Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2005 7:30PM - 9:00PM 802 Tutorials
13 Appendix C continued
Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2005 8:00AM - 12:00PM Hyatt (B r e a k 1 0 : 0 0 – 1 0 : 3 0 A M ) Initial Technology Selection Voting 8:00-10:00am ( 5 minutes per proposal and Initial Voting) Recess until 1:00pm Wednesday, Nov. 16, 2005 1:00PM - 6:30PM Hyatt (B r e a k 3 : 3 0 – 4 : 0 0 P M ) 802 Social in the evening Additional Proposal Presentations before 1st Elimination Vote 1:00-3:30pm (45 minutes per Proposal remaining after Initial Selection) First Elimination/Confirmation Vote for TDD and FDD 4:00-6:00pm Thursday, Nov. 17, 2005 8:00AM - 12:00PM Hyatt (B r e a k 1 0 : 0 0 – 1 0 : 3 0 A M ) Technology Selection Process Elimination Voting or Confirmation Voting 8:00am-12:00pm
Thursday, Nov. 17, 2005 1:00PM - 6:00PM Hyatt (B r e a k 3 : 3 0 – 4 : 0 0 P M ) Technology Selection Process-Voting continued if necessary 1:00pm- 4:30pm and Next steps New Business 4:30pm- 5:00pm Next Meeting Planning 5:00pm- 5:30pm Close and Adjourn 5:30pm -6:00pm